| 00:19.55 | scottlfa | ello |
| 00:23.07 | nox- | moin scottlfa |
| 00:23.22 | scottlfa | :) |
| 00:23.34 | scottlfa | ever present I am these days ... |
| 00:24.01 | nox- | qemu 0.9.1 is out btw, so you no longer need a cvs snapshot to get z emu... |
| 00:28.00 | scottlfa | Oh? never emulated my Z. |
| 00:28.57 | nox- | well not all roms work yet... |
| 00:29.21 | nox- | poky worked when i tried, sharp rom still doesnt start gui |
| 00:29.35 | scottlfa | ah |
| 00:30.08 | nox- | no idea about plain debian... |
| 00:31.35 | nox- | (you can look for that thread on the qemu list archive...) |
| 00:32.10 | scottlfa | I might just out of curiosity. |
| 00:33.38 | nox- | last july/august |
| 00:34.04 | nox- | Subject: qemu-system-arm -M akita... |
| 00:34.20 | scottlfa | I almost religiously fiddle with my Z, until lately I finally have left the same distro on it for more than two weeks. |
| 00:34.22 | scottlfa | lol |
| 00:34.34 | nox- | hah |
| 00:35.08 | nox- | i played with qemu z emu a bit also, but didnt really get back to it recenly |
| 00:35.08 | scottlfa | Been pretty happy with debian on it now though, so its more or less setup. |
| 00:36.11 | nox- | http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2007-07/msg00307.html |
| 00:36.16 | nox- | thats where it started |
| 00:37.31 | nox- | last posts were in august i think |
| 00:40.50 | scottlfa | would seem so |
| 00:42.44 | nox- | qemu's -s feature was quite useful actually :) |
| 00:55.09 | *** join/#zaurus bgold (n=bgold@c-68-55-131-250.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 01:05.36 | *** join/#zaurus synth (n=cb@obfuscated.us) |
| 01:14.06 | totall_6_7 | So scottlfayou dont actually use your z for anything but installing OS's on?? |
| 01:18.38 | nox- | lol |
| 01:19.41 | totall_6_7 | that question was not meant as rude, sarcastic, or any of those. I am really wondering |
| 01:22.17 | bgold | Thats not obviously what he uses his Z for.. |
| 01:22.32 | bgold | Thats obviously not* |
| 01:23.18 | bgold | He probably expirements with some, but he probably has a set ROM that he uses |
| 01:23.44 | totall_6_7 | [16:34:34] <scottlfa> I almost religiously fiddle with my Z, until lately I finally have left the same distro on it for more than two weeks. |
| 01:24.27 | totall_6_7 | that is what prompted the question |
| 01:25.12 | bgold | ah |
| 01:25.44 | scottlfa | :) |
| 01:26.06 | scottlfa | Actually I am a bit of a gadget collector |
| 01:26.24 | scottlfa | I have a SX66 Pocket PC phone ... so the PDA need is already covered. |
| 01:26.56 | scottlfa | I run linux on various machines I own, laptops, thin terminals etc ... so the Z was one of those things I just wanted to get. |
| 01:27.10 | nox- | heh |
| 01:27.12 | totall_6_7 | fair engouh :) |
| 01:27.42 | scottlfa | before it I bought a M34 Panasonic that I was going to use for work etc (cause its tiny), but it wasn't small enough and a friend pointed out a Z too me and I went OH!. |
| 01:28.36 | scottlfa | I bought the Z with the INTENTION of making it a tiny laptop ... so I started with each distro too learn each's application to that intention. |
| 01:28.57 | scottlfa | then I found someone tried to get debian on it ... zip I was off and running. |
| 01:30.15 | totall_6_7 | scottlfa: does debian run faster when its the primary OS compaired to being debian workstation? |
| 01:30.25 | scottlfa | I have three clie's (NZ90, NX73 and UX50), two pocket pc's (HX4705 and SX66), multiple laptops (T40, T42, M34, VXi and a few old thinkpads), some IBM thin clients etc ... |
| 01:30.54 | scottlfa | It runs as fast PdaXrom 198. |
| 01:31.11 | totall_6_7 | what model do you have |
| 01:31.48 | scottlfa | I never tried the workstation route, being a purest. I want it to be a pure debian machine. |
| 01:31.54 | scottlfa | 3100 now |
| 01:32.02 | scottlfa | Ran debian on my old 1000 too. |
| 01:32.16 | scottlfa | though on the 1000 running from the SD is slower. |
| 01:33.27 | totall_6_7 | i have just done the workststion route, and it takes forever to start programs |
| 01:34.16 | totall_6_7 | start a go smoke a cig and come back and it should be done |
| 01:34.28 | totall_6_7 | start a program* |
| 01:34.48 | scottlfa | ouch |
| 01:35.17 | scottlfa | If you setup debian, use a light WM like blackbox, apps start on par speed wise with any of the other distros |
| 01:35.22 | totall_6_7 | abiWord being the example that i am refereing to |
| 01:37.37 | totall_6_7 | scottlfa: when you say you installed debain, you mean you Flashed the unit to replace the Sharp OS |
| 01:37.39 | totall_6_7 | ?? |
| 01:37.39 | scottlfa | about 30 seconds on load, just tried it. I use a heavy WM too (Gnome full) |
| 01:37.49 | scottlfa | Indeed |
| 01:38.08 | scottlfa | Flashed to replace the kernel and such, debian itself is run from the HDD. |
| 01:38.25 | scottlfa | no nand use, which is a plus ... cause it prolongs the life of the unit. |
| 01:39.37 | totall_6_7 | using flash memory is bad for the unit? |
| 01:40.05 | nox- | ive heared bad things about microdrive reliability also tho |
| 01:40.35 | scottlfa | so have I, but theres one HUGE thing about it. |
| 01:40.41 | scottlfa | its REPLACEABLE!!! |
| 01:40.47 | scottlfa | where as the nand isn't |
| 01:41.00 | scottlfa | flash has a finite lifespan. |
| 01:41.20 | scottlfa | as does the drive, but when it dies I can replace it with a bigger one or a cf card. |
| 01:41.21 | scottlfa | :) |
| 01:41.37 | scottlfa | May get replaced anyhows ... 16 GB CF is calling me something fierce. |
| 01:41.55 | totall_6_7 | yeah i see those costing 100usd |
| 01:42.05 | scottlfa | nod |
| 01:42.26 | scottlfa | I have already opened the unit up and looked around, its very easy to replace. |
| 01:43.31 | scottlfa | can buy a 4 gb drive hitachi for about 20us atm. |
| 01:51.54 | scottlfa | presently I use the Z as a micro laptop at work. Been on the same OS for two weeks :) |
| 01:57.37 | totall_6_7 | If i can get my Z to do the following: video (and more types than the iPAQ can handle) Music, ebooks, WP and spreadsheets, and maybe a few games i will be happy |
| 02:03.46 | scottlfa | pdaxii13 |
| 02:03.53 | scottlfa | its solid and fast. |
| 02:04.06 | scottlfa | bvdd mplayer is really good on videos. |
| 02:04.22 | scottlfa | base & treble control of audio through xmms is solid. |
| 02:06.13 | Varthall | not very solid on my Z unfortunately, I have constantly problem powering on the system after a standby, 50% of the times I have to manually reset the unit |
| 02:10.22 | nox- | ouch |
| 02:13.48 | Varthall | maybe this problem has been sorted out with the newer, beta versions of it, I haven't tried them yet |
| 02:14.23 | scottlfa | thats one of the few issue pdaxii13 seems to have. |
| 02:14.53 | scottlfa | Pdaxrom 198 solves that issue, but media takes a hit with the newer kernel. |
| 02:15.27 | scottlfa | pdaxii13 is just the easiest to setup and use for people usually. |
| 02:15.34 | nox- | media takes a hit? |
| 02:15.49 | nox- | well if its not stable... |
| 02:16.12 | scottlfa | pdaxrom 198 looses bvdd support in mplayer for example. |
| 02:16.29 | nox- | i would not want to have to reset my z all the time at least :) |
| 02:16.53 | scottlfa | I found pressing the home key woke the z up usually in pdaxii13 |
| 02:17.25 | nox- | hmm |
| 02:17.32 | scottlfa | buts its now been about four or five weeks since I ran pdaxii13 or pdaxrom 198. |
| 02:17.56 | scottlfa | Debian suspends wonderfully, and over prolonged time too. |
| 02:17.56 | nox- | :) |
| 02:18.03 | nox- | ah good |
| 02:18.31 | Varthall | hmm, using the home key instead of the on/off one? I must try it |
| 02:18.37 | scottlfa | gave up on cacko because I dinna want a PDA. |
| 02:18.42 | scottlfa | nod |
| 02:18.44 | nox- | mine only didnt wake up once because of (almost) empty battery, leaving it plugged in for a bit solved that... |
| 02:18.59 | scottlfa | I found the on/off in pdaxii13 lead to a very frequent annoyance. |
| 02:19.11 | scottlfa | it would come up and then off repeatedly. |
| 02:19.17 | nox- | eww |
| 02:20.11 | Varthall | I have a similar behaviour too |
| 02:20.44 | scottlfa | indeed, pressing the home key gets the resume working properly. |
| 02:20.54 | scottlfa | on/off to suspend and home to resume. |
| 02:23.11 | nox- | lid close also works? |
| 02:24.06 | scottlfa | in debian, yes |
| 02:24.29 | nox- | i c |
| 02:24.42 | scottlfa | its off and on in pdaxii13 |
| 02:24.49 | scottlfa | works in pdaxrom 198 |
| 02:38.26 | nox- | gn8 |
| 02:38.55 | Varthall | nite |
| 02:39.05 | nox- | gn8 Varthall |
| 02:42.03 | scottlfa | gn8 |
| 03:11.38 | totall_6_7 | Well i have decided to do the research on the pdaXrom and see if i can get it installed without making a paperweight out of my Z |
| 03:38.45 | totall_6_7 | scottlfa: are you still around? |
| 03:39.09 | totall_6_7 | What is it about the 3200? All i seem to find is references for the 3100 |
| 03:39.30 | totall_6_7 | I know they are basicly the same thing, just wondering why |
| 03:39.44 | totall_6_7 | Too new maybe? |
| 07:14.29 | Blue89 | no |
| 07:14.58 | Blue89 | totall_6_7, all zaurii, including the 3200, ar ecurrently out of production. they are not "new" ;-) |
| 07:15.33 | Blue89 | the 3100 and the 3200 are essentially the same device |
| 07:15.38 | totall_6_7 | Too new meaning they have not been out on the market long enough |
| 07:15.47 | Blue89 | so most howtwos cover them in a generalized way |
| 07:18.15 | totall_6_7 | well this howto http://www.tyrannozaurus.com/feed/pdaXii13/akita/ i may be ready to actually use after reading it and its related pages about 4 or 5 or 6 more times :D |
| 07:20.24 | totall_6_7 | Blue89: if you or anyone has any suggestions or tips i am MORE than needing of them :) |
| 07:52.00 | Blue89 | follow the akita instructions, then start over and follow the spitz instructions. (the spitz version is missing some flash stuff, so the akita version is needed to fill a couple gaps.) |
| 07:52.18 | Blue89 | I use it on my 3200, and I love it |
| 07:52.29 | Blue89 | btw, I got bzflag to run at a playable speed today :-) |
| 07:52.55 | Blue89 | disable as much text as possible, it's actually the font rendering that is slowing things down |
| 07:54.15 | totall_6_7 | now that is something i didnt know, so in other words have icons only with out text lables? |
| 07:56.07 | totall_6_7 | ahhh its a game lol |
| 07:56.25 | totall_6_7 | and the text rendering you mean inside the game |
| 07:56.29 | totall_6_7 | lol |
| 07:56.50 | totall_6_7 | i am slow sometimes but i get it sooner or later |
| 08:02.35 | totall_6_7 | wow that seems like an intersting game http://www.bzflag.at/screenshots.php |
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| 16:59.51 | *** join/#zaurus frostschutz (n=frostsch@p54AC6BAA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 19:05.07 | scottlfa | back |
| 19:08.39 | Varthall | hi |
| 19:16.58 | *** join/#zaurus Zesturian (n=zest@unaffiliated/zesturian) |
| 19:18.50 | Blue89 | Varthall, you said there are some other software renderers out there I could try. do you know any of their names? |
| 19:22.36 | Varthall | hmm, there have been a few mentioned on oesf |
| 19:22.53 | Varthall | I don't think that they have been ported to z yet |
| 19:22.59 | Varthall | checking now |
| 19:26.03 | Varthall | OpenGL/ES: http://www.khronos.org/opengles/ |
| 19:26.31 | Varthall | Klimt: http://klimt.sourceforge.net/ |
| 19:26.48 | Varthall | thread on oesf: http://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?s=e9b805e33a1b795c9369179145db44bd&showtopic=5564 |
| 19:28.01 | Varthall | "Currently Klimt runs on the following list of platforms: |
| 19:28.03 | Varthall | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:28.03 | Varthall | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:28.03 | Varthall | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:28.03 | Varthall | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:28.04 | Varthall | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:28.04 | Varthall | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:28.06 | Varthall | " |
| 19:28.10 | Varthall | didn't know this |
| 19:28.57 | Blue89 | cool |
| 19:30.40 | Blue89 | "Its API is very similiar to that of OpenGL and OpenGL|ES. We do not claim conformance with these APIs. Nevertheless, Klimt is able to run Coin3D" |
| 19:31.23 | Blue89 | so it probably builds bzflag, but anything else more complicated may fail |
| 19:36.18 | Blue89 | Varthall, ty |
| 19:36.49 | Varthall | you're welcome |
| 19:37.21 | Varthall | please let me know if you'll be successful, I'm interested in 3d ports too |
| 19:45.03 | Varthall | dinner |
| 19:56.57 | totall_6_7 | Blue89: do you know off hand if the default backup software that comes installed on the Z will create a flashable back up? |
| 19:57.48 | totall_6_7 | incase something happens during the pdaXii13 install and i need to restore? |
| 19:59.26 | Blue89 | I never used it, I wouldn't know |
| 20:01.40 | totall_6_7 | k thanks looking for the zbackup that that site talks about |
| 20:01.40 | Blue89 | but I believe it does |
| 20:02.47 | Blue89 | pdaxii13 works, I know from experience. if the flash fails, download it again and start over. if you want qtopia back, install cacko |
| 20:06.01 | totall_6_7 | Yeah the site says it does :) |
| 20:07.00 | Blue89 | my point is, it is a lot more convincing when somebody is looking at a working install |
| 20:07.44 | totall_6_7 | Blue89: your installing it on the exact lol i was just typeing that your installing it on the exact same Z as i have was the deciding factor in me going ahead with it |
| 20:08.20 | Blue89 | :-) |
| 20:11.12 | *** join/#zaurus tomimo (n=kurre@a193-229-231-129.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:12.56 | Blue89 | I can't figure out how to get this makefile to work |
| 20:13.09 | Blue89 | I cd into klimt, but "make doesn't do anything |
| 20:13.24 | Blue89 | make -f build/LinuxX11/Makefile didn't work either |
| 20:13.38 | Blue89 | I must be forgetting something |
| 20:27.58 | totall_6_7 | I wish i could return the favour and help, but i haven't a clue :( |
| 20:28.56 | Blue89 | that's ok |
| 20:29.53 | Blue89 | my unit is working, gettign faster 3D out of it is kindof extra. I won't need it unless I try to compile neverball and lots of 3D games from source |
| 20:30.29 | Blue89 | although compiling neverball from source would be awesome ;-) |
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| 20:50.44 | nox- | moin |
| 21:40.45 | Grecko | Heyo. Is it possible to put a <1gig partition on a 2gig card and use it to reinstall a Z 3100? I don't have any smaller cards, and can't even get a smaller card for at least a week :( |
| 21:43.05 | frostschutz | Grecko: no, at least my Z hangs whatever >1G I put in, and the drivers that are supposed to support 2G/4G cards don't work for me either |
| 21:43.22 | frostschutz | but you can always try I guess... |
| 21:43.44 | Grecko | The driver works for me, except that when the unit isn't plugged in, the screen blanks for about 20 seconds on every keypress or touchscreen press :( |
| 22:25.35 | scottlfa | Grecko - depends on the distro. |
| 22:26.11 | scottlfa | I have had a 2GB SD recognize in Cacko, Pdaxii13, PdaXrom and Angstrom. |
| 22:27.17 | frostschutz | doesn't work for me in cacko, maybe it's the card... or the c1000... or I got the wrong driver package for cacko |
| 22:27.29 | nox- | i have a 3200 and even the sharp rom that came with it works with the 2G card |
| 22:27.43 | scottlfa | Have tested on C1K and C3x00 |
| 22:28.00 | frostschutz | yes, the 3200 supports it out of the box, but the c1000 needs a backport or sth, at least thats what I heard |
| 22:28.19 | frostschutz | scottlfa: did cacko work out of the box for you, for the c1000,with the c1000 cacko? |
| 22:28.32 | nox- | ah |
| 22:28.35 | frostschutz | or did you install something (and what exactly) |
| 22:28.44 | scottlfa | No for the 2 GB Card. |
| 22:29.01 | scottlfa | Had to use the New Kernel (Tesu) |
| 22:29.28 | frostschutz | and where do I get this? :) |
| 22:30.28 | scottlfa | Looking now |
| 22:31.05 | Grecko | I have just plain cacko installed on the unit out of the box, with the sdmmc ipk, it works with 2gig cards now without (hardly) any glitches. |
| 22:31.11 | Grecko | 3100. |
| 22:33.24 | frostschutz | I installed such an ipkg, but when I did this, the Z still hang when inserting the 2G card, and it wouldn't turn itself off anymore when shutting the lid, even after a cold restart |
| 22:33.37 | frostschutz | so I had to flash cacko and start over |
| 22:34.16 | scottlfa | found it |
| 22:35.48 | Grecko | Seems to be working with this new sdmmc.o... |
| 22:36.27 | Grecko | Shuts off when I close it |
| 22:38.22 | frostschutz | yeh I never found out what was the issue with the thing, no error or log messages anywhere, so in the end I flashed it cause it was unuseable otherwise cause it sucked the battery empty in no time |
| 22:39.13 | Grecko | I had a problem a couple of times with the unit not shutting off when I closed the screen, and it was before I tried using 2gig cards with it - I'm thinking it was the old version of cacko, as I haven't had it since I upgraded. |
| 22:39.54 | frostschutz | I'm using cacko 1.23 I think... which was the latest version when I bought my Z |
| 22:40.21 | Grecko | Heh, I'm not sure they were even up to 1.1 when I bought my Z :P |
| 22:40.40 | scottlfa | looking for a downloadable link. |
| 22:41.50 | scottlfa | 1.23 is the latest present Cacko. |
| 22:42.13 | scottlfa | I use debian now, so its been abit for me. |
| 22:42.22 | Grecko | Debian on the Z? |
| 22:45.36 | scottlfa | Yep Yep |
| 22:45.40 | scottlfa | Full blown. |
| 22:45.47 | scottlfa | Debian ARMel |
| 22:46.33 | Grecko | Neat |
| 22:46.41 | Grecko | I wonder if Arch would compile nicely for the Z... |
| 22:46.48 | scottlfa | Literally a micro laptop now :) |
| 22:47.12 | Grecko | The Cacko interface is kinda nice for a pda though |
| 22:47.26 | Grecko | Although I have to admit, having a proper X server running would be bloody nice |
| 22:47.46 | scottlfa | I have numerous PDA's (3 Clie's, 2 PPC, even a SL-5600. |
| 22:47.58 | scottlfa | The Z was bought to be more :) |
| 22:48.36 | Grecko | Right now, its the closest thing I have to either a laptop or a PDA :P |
| 22:49.06 | Grecko | If I could get a wireless card for it, and get a keyboard working with it, I'd probably use it as a laptop more and get a new PDA... |
| 22:49.08 | scottlfa | I can understand, I collect gadgets ... looking at the Fujitsu UMPC atm. |
| 22:49.17 | Grecko | UMPC? |
| 22:49.53 | scottlfa | Micro Laptops etc ... usually no more than 6 or 7 inches in size. |
| 22:49.54 | Grecko | My current "laptop" is a 20" acer... two lessons: buy a big LCD monitor for at home, small laptop screen for travel, and 2) NEVER EVERY buy an acer. |
| 22:50.36 | Grecko | I'm looking into the Asus eeepc... I'd like a 6-10" laptop, with a DVD drive, and a good long battery life that I can use for school - any recommendations? |
| 22:51.03 | scottlfa | heres the special Cacko Kernels link - http://www.katastrophos.net/zaurus/kernels/v55/ |
| 22:51.07 | nox- | eeepc had a dvd drive? |
| 22:51.17 | nox- | has |
| 22:51.21 | scottlfa | no drive in the eeepc |
| 22:51.32 | nox- | alright |
| 22:52.29 | scottlfa | In that form factor the drive is most certainly going to have to be external. I have a Panasonic Toughbook M34, its about the same footprint as the eeepc (just thicker and heavier). |
| 22:52.40 | scottlfa | It has to have external peripherals. |
| 22:52.52 | frostschutz | scottlfa: thanks |
| 22:53.05 | scottlfa | Has a touch screen, so puts it a small step beyond the eeepc for me. |
| 22:53.47 | scottlfa | follow the instructions for the kernels, when installed though the 2 GB will show up without any need for special drivers. |
| 22:54.34 | Grecko | Whats the toughbook worth? |
| 22:54.57 | Grecko | I've got one of the 13" toughbooks, quite a nice little beast, but its original price was like 7 grand. |
| 22:55.43 | ds2 | how many trucks have been driven over it? that might have a factor in the price =) |
| 22:57.18 | scottlfa | I bought it on ebay for 250 US |
| 22:57.49 | scottlfa | Its an older one, CF-17's and M34 go for between 200 and 500 depending on the seller and condition etc ... |
| 22:58.02 | scottlfa | lol |
| 22:58.35 | scottlfa | Mine has all the seals intact, and is in extremely good condition. Only one vehicle track on it :) |
| 22:58.51 | ds2 | has it been down in any ocean trenches? ;) |
| 22:59.10 | scottlfa | Lol ... nopa. |
| 22:59.23 | ds2 | they are nice systems, just large |
| 23:07.20 | Grecko | Maybe I'll look into getting a new battery for my toughbook... cf-28, fairly decent little system, no DVD drive, but I can just copy things onto CDs for it, and its got wireless :) |
| 23:13.49 | ds2 | the last I look, the modern toughbooks are in name only |
| 23:21.31 | scottlfa | back |
| 23:40.48 | scottlfa | compared measurements of the eeepc ... and its very similiar to the m34 |
| 23:46.19 | Tomoe | sup hy |