| 00:02.06 | *** join/#zaurus ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 00:02.06 | *** topic/#zaurus is Zaurus Discussion - http://www.zaurus.com/ - http://myzaurus.com/ | OpenZaurus help in #openzaurus (george-) || /msg ibot orkut - then join the orkut zaurus group |
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| 00:31.00 | *** topic/#zaurus is Zaurus Discussion - http://www.zaurus.com/ - http://myzaurus.com/ | OpenZaurus help in #openzaurus (george-) || /msg ibot orkut - then join the orkut zaurus group |
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| 01:02.53 | *** join/#zaurus duxex (n=pete@202.33.24.133) |
| 01:03.16 | duxex | hello? |
| 01:05.11 | kendrick | hello |
| 01:05.48 | duxex | hows it going? |
| 01:05.53 | duxex | I just got a zaurus c3100 |
| 01:05.55 | kendrick | alright |
| 01:05.56 | kendrick | cool |
| 01:06.02 | kendrick | i still have an old SL-5500 |
| 01:06.12 | kendrick | i don't do much with it lately... mostly play MP3 white noise at night :^( |
| 01:06.14 | duxex | I got openzaurus on it right now |
| 01:06.28 | duxex | :) |
| 01:06.29 | duxex | hehe |
| 01:06.35 | kendrick | nice |
| 01:06.38 | kendrick | i'm still using sharp rom |
| 01:06.56 | duxex | I'm trying to figure out how to properly slick everything off of it and reinstall |
| 01:07.07 | kendrick | mm |
| 01:08.27 | duxex | and with openzaruus, my HDD doesn't show up :) |
| 01:11.17 | duxex | wait |
| 01:11.19 | duxex | it showed up |
| 01:12.29 | duxex | Mine is all in japanese, I don't read japanese too well ) |
| 01:12.31 | duxex | :) |
| 01:13.56 | kendrick | hehe |
| 01:14.07 | kendrick | a friend of mine is building Tux Paint on his Nokia 770 |
| 01:14.18 | kendrick | i noticed there wasn't an updated release of Tux Paint for the Zaurus |
| 01:14.32 | kendrick | i think we're finding out why... lots of heavy floating point in some of the updated and new code :) |
| 01:19.16 | kendrick | hrm, sounds like most of it works well, though :) |
| 01:19.21 | kendrick | just the FP-heavy stuff... |
| 01:19.25 | kendrick | not surprising :) |
| 01:32.16 | INTERROBANG | duxex: where'd you get your zaurus? |
| 01:32.30 | duxex | in japan |
| 01:32.32 | duxex | I live here |
| 01:32.34 | INTERROBANG | damn |
| 01:32.58 | duxex | its a neat device, I'm trying to mess with it a little though :) |
| 01:36.28 | duxex | I'm missing my USB host adapter hrhmmm |
| 01:41.16 | duxex | this opie environment is terrible |
| 01:45.45 | duxex | INTERROBANG, you want a japanese zaurus? |
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| 02:11.20 | *** join/#zaurus s0ciopath (n=user@205.234.34.155) |
| 02:14.26 | INTERROBANG | duxex: i just want a zaurus (assuming i can flash it to english) |
| 02:14.59 | INTERROBANG | specifically a c1000 or above. though i' thinking just c1000 since it'd be a cheapest one with video acceleration necessary to play videos witohut reencoding |
| 02:15.45 | duxex | it has english support built in with the default OS |
| 02:16.01 | duxex | you just need to go into the config and change a line |
| 02:18.29 | duxex | bbl |
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| 03:31.07 | Luke-Jr | INTERROBANG: actually, I don't think Cxx00 are any faster than Cxx0 for video |
| 03:31.35 | Luke-Jr | duxex: Zaurus are Japan-only... |
| 03:33.31 | *** part/#zaurus minipanda (n=zhanght@219.236.21.70) |
| 03:34.45 | INTERROBANG | Luke-Jr: i'm aware that the C**00 have ati video/2d acceleration, i imagine they're significantly faster |
| 03:34.46 | INTERROBANG | Luke-Jr: but if you know, can the C**0's player video at 512x384@30fps (analog tv)? |
| 03:34.46 | INTERROBANG | ...using xvid codec |
| 03:35.33 | Luke-Jr | INTERROBANG: Cxx0 have ATi chipsets, too |
| 03:35.43 | Luke-Jr | and analog TV is 720x480 |
| 03:38.13 | duxex | Luke-Jr, thanks for telling me its Japan only when I just did a translation last night and am using mine in english right now |
| 03:38.32 | duxex | :) |
| 03:40.39 | Luke-Jr | Japan only doesn't mean JapanESE only ;) |
| 03:41.04 | Luke-Jr | aha, you were talking about the language, not the origin |
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| 04:28.29 | DeathWolf | some day we will see a zaurus with wifi, bluetooth, an fpu, and a dedicated gfx chipset:) |
| 04:30.14 | wayne | and someday, i'll have more available income :) |
| 04:31.02 | DeathWolf | that too:) |
| 04:31.45 | DeathWolf | i wonder what's the penalty cost for not having a fpu for the z |
| 04:32.52 | Luke-Jr | DeathWo1f: there's a reason Zaurii don't have builtin WiFi |
| 04:33.18 | Luke-Jr | DeathWo1f: pretty big penalty |
| 04:33.40 | Luke-Jr | DeathWo1f: many Zaurii OS just assume there's no FPU and gain quite a bit of speed |
| 04:34.08 | Luke-Jr | as opposed to trying to use it, finding it unsupported, and then working around it |
| 04:34.08 | DeathWolf | well the reason is cost and the fact wifi is a power monger |
| 04:34.11 | Luke-Jr | they just work around it regardless |
| 04:34.15 | Luke-Jr | no |
| 04:34.22 | Luke-Jr | the reason is that Japan has many options for wireless net |
| 04:34.37 | Luke-Jr | and many users wouldn't be using 802.11b/g |
| 04:35.16 | Luke-Jr | Even in the US, alternative wireless is popping up |
| 04:35.30 | DeathWolf | havent noticed that much of that last time i went back home, in japan that is |
| 04:35.34 | Luke-Jr | Sprint just recently started supporting wireless broadband for their connection cards |
| 04:35.51 | DeathWolf | but then i didnt check much, except at the airport |
| 04:35.53 | Luke-Jr | well, that's the big reason given last I checked ;) |
| 04:36.42 | Luke-Jr | what would be nice would be a CF slot next to the battery |
| 04:36.48 | Luke-Jr | that you need to take the battery cover off to access |
| 04:37.29 | DeathWolf | anyway, fpu is quite useful, and from what i saw, most have a software fpu emulation working, even the default sharp os, but prove me wrong, i didnt check that much |
| 04:37.50 | Luke-Jr | I'm pretty sure the Sharp OS is the only one w/o soft-float |
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| 04:38.04 | Luke-Jr | and the fpu emulation is what makes it slow |
| 04:38.34 | Luke-Jr | most OS (OZ et al) don't even try to use a FPU, and just use soft-float in glibc |
| 04:38.41 | Luke-Jr | and thus gain a significant boost |
| 04:38.50 | DeathWolf | yeah |
| 04:39.00 | DeathWolf | anyway, since i can play my 640x480 vids on the z directly, and i can use my cf card to go wifi, i'm fine:) |
| 04:39.12 | DeathWolf | that'll do it for the time being:) |
| 04:39.21 | Luke-Jr | the only place I have WiFi access is home :\ |
| 04:39.50 | DeathWolf | the weakest part i found so far was the refresh rate for video |
| 04:39.58 | DeathWolf | i get quite some tearing |
| 04:40.10 | Luke-Jr | IIRC, video playback is better at 320x240 |
| 04:40.12 | DeathWolf | seems like the bus to the display is quite limited |
| 04:40.17 | DeathWolf | well it isnt cpu related |
| 04:40.20 | DeathWolf | the load is low |
| 04:40.32 | Luke-Jr | i know |
| 04:40.47 | Luke-Jr | 320x240 cuts the video output to 1/4 |
| 04:40.55 | DeathWolf | well |
| 04:41.04 | DeathWolf | afaik the resize that is done in that case is a point resize |
| 04:41.08 | DeathWolf | which looks horribly ugly |
| 04:41.27 | DeathWolf | ie, you use 4 pixels to display 1 of the video without any form of interpolation |
| 04:41.38 | DeathWolf | and since i'm quite a maniac with resolution and detail:) |
| 04:41.44 | DeathWolf | i stay at 640x480 |
| 04:41.50 | DeathWolf | which actually works pretty well |
| 04:42.00 | DeathWolf | i'd say it has a refresh rate around 15-18fps |
| 04:42.16 | DeathWolf | (so i only get tearing in high motion) |
| 04:43.27 | DeathWolf | having a 640x480 res on a that smallscreen, though, is a wonder |
| 04:43.37 | DeathWolf | gotta love it, especially for terminals:) |
| 04:44.11 | DeathWolf | and of course, picture viewing |
| 04:59.26 | wayne | yeah, terminal on my 5600 is not so great |
| 04:59.36 | wayne | but given the use i have for mine, it's perfect :) |
| 05:03.35 | INTERROBANG | DeathWolf: what Z do you have? |
| 05:32.51 | Luke-Jr | If I get "Scanning device for bad blocks ... Bad eraseblock 6143 at 0x05ffc000", is that bad? |
| 05:38.48 | sashz | NAND... it is ok |
| 05:39.05 | Luke-Jr | ? |
| 05:40.49 | sashz | all NAND flash chips has bad blocks |
| 05:41.42 | Luke-Jr | o |
| 05:42.04 | Luke-Jr | I don't think mine did when I got it o.o |
| 05:59.16 | DeathWolf | INTERROBANG, sl c1000 |
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| 08:39.51 | INTERROBANG | what codec are you using when you're getting 15-18 fps? |
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| 19:20.08 | *** join/#zaurus Hhhhh (n=cristoba@158.91.201.220) |
| 19:20.11 | Hhhhh | hello |
| 19:20.22 | Hhhhh | I have a couple of questions about the zaurus |
| 19:21.19 | Hhhhh | I want to buy a PDA/PocketPC/Palm, and I am trying to decide if a Zaurus would be a good alternative for me |
| 19:21.39 | INTERROBANG | what do you want out of yuor pda? |
| 19:21.49 | Hhhhh | I pretty much want to be able to get new software. be able to read PDF files, play MP3, use internet (802.11b/g Wi-Fi) |
| 19:22.04 | Hhhhh | take class notes, maybe record? |
| 19:22.29 | Hhhhh | and I'm a Linux user, I'd rather use Linux instead of Windows Mobile or PalmOS |
| 19:22.53 | sashz | haha |
| 19:23.09 | INTERROBANG | 1. well "get new software" is a means not an end, you're seeking new software simply for the sake of having i hope |
| 19:23.28 | Hhhhh | well, more like if I need something, I can just go get it |
| 19:23.29 | INTERROBANG | 2. pdf, mp3's, and internet access most pdas can do but |
| 19:23.41 | sashz | archos pma-400 - Linux + 30GB HD + builtin wifi + video player + music player |
| 19:23.42 | INTERROBANG | just go get it as in free or available? |
| 19:23.53 | Hhhhh | as in free, hopefully |
| 19:23.54 | sashz | pdf reader of course inside too |
| 19:24.20 | INTERROBANG | 1. free software: linux |
| 19:24.31 | INTERROBANG | 2. pdf, mp3: almost any pda |
| 19:24.33 | Hhhhh | I went to look in the US Sharp site and the only one tehy're showing is the SL-6000, but I thought that was discontinued in the US |
| 19:25.03 | sashz | Hhhhh, all what you want - http://www.archos.com/products/ip_centric/pma_400/index.html |
| 19:25.19 | sashz | A unique portable video, photo and music player featuring wifi connection, Internet browser and media assistant functionalities. |
| 19:25.20 | INTERROBANG | 3. internet access: almost any pda but most sites don't support small screen format, you may want something with 640x480 resolution |
| 19:25.20 | sashz | 3.5" color touch screen |
| 19:25.20 | sashz | 30 GB* Hard Drive |
| 19:25.21 | sashz | Portable DVR: record TV and watch on the go |
| 19:25.21 | sashz | Wifi and internet browser |
| 19:25.21 | sashz | Assistant with agenda, contacts & PDF reader capabilities |
| 19:25.23 | sashz | Media player: enjoy up to 130 hours of video1, 300,000 photos1 or 15,000 songs1 on the go |
| 19:25.44 | INTERROBANG | 4. class notes: almost any pda with a portable keyboard |
| 19:26.31 | Hhhhh | sashz, looks cool but out of my price range |
| 19:26.41 | INTERROBANG | what's your price range? |
| 19:26.47 | Hhhhh | up to $300 |
| 19:26.50 | Hhhhh | not much |
| 19:26.59 | Hhhhh | are there any Zaurus in that price range? |
| 19:27.06 | INTERROBANG | yeah |
| 19:27.14 | sashz | maybe SL-C7x0? |
| 19:27.18 | INTERROBANG | the sl5500 i know for sure |
| 19:27.43 | sashz | sl5500 too old |
| 19:27.57 | Hhhhh | which ones are the newer models? the sharpusa.com site is great at not showing any useful information |
| 19:27.59 | INTERROBANG | that's C750 is $306 |
| 19:28.46 | Hhhhh | are there any website with lots of info on Zaurus models? |
| 19:28.48 | INTERROBANG | but consider exactly what software you want |
| 19:28.54 | Hhhhh | comparisons, chronology, etc |
| 19:29.07 | INTERROBANG | chronology? |
| 19:29.23 | INTERROBANG | time of release isn't really important |
| 19:29.30 | Hhhhh | model chronology |
| 19:29.42 | INTERROBANG | new for the sake of new doesn't relly mean anything |
| 19:29.54 | Hhhhh | I know, but too old might be a problem |
| 19:29.59 | INTERROBANG | how so? |
| 19:30.06 | Hhhhh | anyways, are there any sites with comparisons? |
| 19:30.34 | pgas | www.zaurusergroup.com |
| 19:30.47 | INTERROBANG | linux doesn't have a "too old" problem, you check the stats and if they're good at all for what you want to do, they always will be |
| 19:30.49 | sashz | Hhhhh, probably you need look oesf.org |
| 19:30.56 | INTERROBANG | linux doesn't suddenly stop working |
| 19:31.16 | Hhhhh | INTERROBANG, I know, I guess I'm an update freak |
| 19:31.48 | INTERROBANG | you really need to consider what software you want, you sound like a technophile not a nerd. windows will get you an unhealthy addiction to new |
| 19:32.06 | INTERROBANG | if you know exactly what you want from your pda, honestly i suggest you look for a tradition one |
| 19:32.59 | INTERROBANG | you want linux no your pda for 2 reasons: portability of software between desktop and pda, and customizability |
| 19:33.19 | Luke-Jr | INTERROBANG: and because it's the only real option |
| 19:33.28 | INTERROBANG | what do you mean? |
| 19:33.34 | Hhhhh | well, I want this (in order of priority): 1)PDF reader software 2)Take notes in class 3)802.11b/g internet 4)MP3 5)"Tinkering" potential (Linux especially) |
| 19:34.31 | Hhhhh | I don't know much about PDAs personally, never had interest in gadgetry until now |
| 19:34.47 | Luke-Jr | Zaurii aren't PDAs |
| 19:34.48 | INTERROBANG | 1) any pda 2) any pda with portable keyboard 3) any pda with card or integrated wifi (though you mean want a 640x480 pda) 4) any pda 5) define tinkering |
| 19:35.01 | INTERROBANG | aren't pdas? |
| 19:35.12 | Luke-Jr | Zaurii are handheld computers |
| 19:35.26 | INTERROBANG | i wouldn't say that for the 320x240 ones |
| 19:35.42 | INTERROBANG | most gui apps aren't usuable at that resolution (believe i tried) |
| 19:35.43 | Luke-Jr | I pretend those don't exist |
| 19:35.48 | INTERROBANG | lol |
| 19:35.55 | INTERROBANG | i wish i did too when i went to buy one |
| 19:36.06 | INTERROBANG | good for console but gui, not really happening for me |
| 19:36.17 | INTERROBANG | VNC scaling helps, but it's not enough |
| 19:36.28 | INTERROBANG | i'd need to rewrite somethings |
| 19:36.45 | INTERROBANG | Hhhhh: define "tinkering" |
| 19:36.56 | INTERROBANG | a lot ppl say that but don't really have any idea what they plan to do |
| 19:37.18 | INTERROBANG | it sounds more like you want the opportunity, rather than actually have any plans to exploit it |
| 19:37.27 | INTERROBANG | you shouldn't spend money on that |
| 19:37.30 | Hhhhh | yea, that is my case |
| 19:37.32 | Hhhhh | anyways |
| 19:37.46 | INTERROBANG | find a 640x480 pda and a portable keyboard |
| 19:37.48 | pgas | pdf reading is not great whatever the pda imho. |
| 19:37.53 | INTERROBANG | doesn't really need to linux based |
| 19:38.21 | Hhhhh | INTERROBANG, I've looked at several, and now I've started to look at the Zaurus ones |
| 19:38.26 | pgas | the keyboard of the clamshell models is great (though not like a real keayboard) |
| 19:38.45 | pgas | the only models currently available are the 1000 and 3100 |
| 19:39.01 | INTERROBANG | if the C750 is the only 640x480 pda in your price range ($306 + S&H from conics.net) then go for it |
| 19:39.02 | Hhhhh | pgas, only ones available in the US? |
| 19:39.05 | Hhhhh | or Japan? |
| 19:39.21 | pgas | current models are only available in japa |
| 19:39.23 | Luke-Jr | Hhhhh: None of the US-available ones are any good |
| 19:39.24 | pgas | japan |
| 19:39.42 | Hhhhh | what about the SL-6000? |
| 19:39.47 | pgas | some us company offer support and import in the us |
| 19:39.49 | Luke-Jr | Hhhhh: a C3100 should be able to run any Linux-based OS you can put on a desktop, in theory |
| 19:39.57 | pgas | the 6000 is discontinued |
| 19:40.08 | Hhhhh | which one is not discontinued right now? |
| 19:40.12 | Luke-Jr | SL-6000 is PDAish |
| 19:40.20 | pgas | the 1000 and 3100 |
| 19:40.23 | Luke-Jr | SL-CXK |
| 19:40.30 | Hhhhh | pgas, only those two, and in the Japan only? |
| 19:40.35 | pgas | yes |
| 19:40.43 | Hhhhh | are the SL-CXK discontinued? |
| 19:41.07 | pgas | the 1000 and 3100 no, the 860 and below yes |
| 19:41.16 | INTERROBANG | don't worry about discontinuity, the manufacter will refurbish all of them regardless, thats how sl5500's are making rounds even today |
| 19:41.48 | Luke-Jr | pgas: 3000? |
| 19:41.49 | pgas | (and user community is active for all model, the 5600 maybe a little behind) |
| 19:41.59 | pgas | 3000 has been replaced by the 3100 |
| 19:42.13 | INTERROBANG | also, unless you've used a pda before for the purposes your described, you may end up like me and many others: you just don't use it |
| 19:42.20 | Luke-Jr | Hhhhh: CXK is shorthand for C1000, C3000, and C3100 |
| 19:42.44 | pgas | cheapest from japan probably here http://www.pricejapan.com/PriceJapan_com.htm |
| 19:43.01 | pgas | us importer http://www.streamlinecpus.com |
| 19:43.12 | INTERROBANG | pgas: how um...."reliable" are they? |
| 19:43.28 | INTERROBANG | i worry about buying from ppl i can't sue |
| 19:43.45 | pgas | pricejapan has been used by a lot of people |
| 19:43.54 | INTERROBANG | where do i find negative reviews? |
| 19:44.11 | pgas | I never seen negative reviews for pricejapan ;) |
| 19:44.24 | INTERROBANG | mm-hm |
| 19:44.25 | pgas | streamlinecpus support the community |
| 19:44.28 | Hhhhh | does the SL-5500 have a lot of activity in the user community? |
| 19:44.34 | INTERROBANG | yeah |
| 19:45.15 | INTERROBANG | sl5500 are probably the most sold zaurus pda of all |
| 19:45.19 | INTERROBANG | in US at least |
| 19:46.13 | pgas | streamlinecpus is a us company so I think you can sue them.... |
| 19:46.28 | INTERROBANG | yeah but $480 for c1000??? |
| 19:46.31 | Hhhhh | what about the SL- |
| 19:46.33 | Hhhhh | C700 |
| 19:46.37 | Hhhhh | what about the SL-C700? |
| 19:46.40 | pgas | there are not so many hw problem |
| 19:46.42 | Hhhhh | SL-C7x0? |
| 19:46.55 | INTERROBANG | c700 is cheaper but only 32MB RAM |
| 19:46.56 | pgas | 700 has only 32 meg ram |
| 19:47.11 | Hhhhh | SL-C760? |
| 19:47.20 | pgas | 760 is great |
| 19:47.36 | pgas | it's the same as the 860 and almost the same as the 1000 |
| 19:47.40 | INTERROBANG | i hear the c760 requires video to be reencoded to play |
| 19:47.49 | INTERROBANG | ...at an appreciable frame rate |
| 19:47.55 | pgas | main benefit of the 1000 is the usb host |
| 19:48.08 | pgas | and a little better cpu |
| 19:48.30 | INTERROBANG | pgas: what are your experiences with video on the c760? |
| 19:48.41 | pgas | inexistant :) |
| 19:48.43 | Hhhhh | now, I have a question, ROM is used to store the OS? |
| 19:49.05 | pgas | rom is the name used for linux distribution |
| 19:49.16 | INTERROBANG | rom at this point is just slang for "os installation" |
| 19:49.21 | pgas | the os is stored in internal flasj |
| 19:49.26 | pgas | flash |
| 19:49.46 | pgas | INTERROBANG: I only played a dvd reencoded on the fly using vlc once |
| 19:49.58 | INTERROBANG | traditionally there's a part of the flash ram you can't access from within the pda's OS, de facto rom |
| 19:50.01 | Hhhhh | now, if I wanted to install an app, let's say some editor or something, would that be stored in that internal flash with the OS as well? |
| 19:50.10 | Hhhhh | kindof analog to a HDD in a computer? |
| 19:50.11 | INTERROBANG | pgas: what resolution and fps |
| 19:50.18 | pgas | or an an external card |
| 19:50.46 | pgas | Hhhhh: yes, exactly |
| 19:50.59 | pgas | INTERROBANG: http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=8303&hl=vlc |
| 19:52.06 | pgas | Hhhhh: except for the 5500 where, by default. a part of the ram is used for storage |
| 19:53.24 | Hhhhh | which one came out first, the SL-C860 or the SL-6000? |
| 19:53.35 | pgas | 860 |
| 19:54.01 | Hhhhh | pgas, I'm looking at www.oesf.org/index.php?title=General |
| 19:54.41 | Hhhhh | are the in the chronological order in which they were released? |
| 19:55.13 | pgas | the 6000 is between the 860 and the 1000 |
| 19:55.32 | pgas | hmm no |
| 19:55.59 | pgas | I think it's 700-750-760-860-6000-3000-1000-3100- |
| 19:56.13 | pgas | 500 |
| 19:56.22 | pgas | 5000 5500 5600 before that |
| 19:56.52 | Hhhhh | pgas, would a 5500 be too old? I'm concerned about finding accesories, software and other things |
| 19:57.01 | Hhhhh | I guess it doesn't matter much since it is discontinued anyways |
| 19:58.09 | pgas | accessories are the same for all zauruses |
| 19:58.17 | pgas | software about the same also :) |
| 19:58.20 | Hhhhh | even the clamshells? |
| 19:58.24 | pgas | yeah |
| 19:58.32 | pgas | basically it's cf cards |
| 19:58.57 | Hhhhh | what are the price ranges usually for the 6000? |
| 19:59.26 | pgas | I'd say 350-450$ on ebay |
| 20:00.18 | Hhhhh | what's the diff between 6000 and 6000L? |
| 20:00.20 | wayne | 5500 is too crappy (battery life, ram, etc) |
| 20:00.52 | pgas | and old and small resolution.. |
| 20:01.34 | INTERROBANG | i don't support any1 knows of an eletronics simulator that can simulate ICs and discrete components in the same system? |
| 20:02.00 | INTERROBANG | i'm seriously considerng making my own pda |
| 20:02.39 | pgas | Hhhhh: the difference between the model is integrated wifi, bluetooth or both |
| 20:02.43 | wayne | INTERROBANG: there's a million of those |
| 20:02.47 | pgas | or none I think |
| 20:02.48 | INTERROBANG | ....for linux |
| 20:03.13 | wayne | INTERROBANG: there'S less than a million |
| 20:03.17 | INTERROBANG | err ssupport = suppose |
| 20:03.23 | wayne | there's a few actualy, check on freshmeat |
| 20:03.36 | INTERROBANG | didn't find any |
| 20:04.07 | INTERROBANG | i checked geda which uses ngspice which supposedly does mixed-mode simulation but i can't find any examples |
| 20:04.27 | wayne | what are your simulation needs? |
| 20:05.31 | INTERROBANG | i want to be able to simulate the various subsytems of a pda, does to the discrete component level |
| 20:05.43 | INTERROBANG | the entire thing if possible (won't be too complex) |
| 20:06.08 | INTERROBANG | err does = down |
| 20:06.11 | wayne | forget it |
| 20:06.19 | wayne | unless you have the bucks for Orcad or Protel |
| 20:06.20 | INTERROBANG | forget it? |
| 20:06.55 | wayne | the type of complexity is design simulation won't be cheap |
| 20:07.26 | wayne | i personally use CircuitMaker, paid about 900$ for it, and it's what the industry would consider "The cheap system", i can barely simulate ics |
| 20:08.51 | INTERROBANG | luckily intend to use a single SoC with it's minimum support circuits, i suppose i only need a verilog/vhdl sim for that |
| 20:11.20 | wayne | why wou want to try and design your own pda? There's no single platform out there that suits you? |
| 20:12.10 | INTERROBANG | i don't see arm support anywhere (even debian has dropped it) and the open embedded build system braeks multiple time a day it seems |
| 20:12.20 | INTERROBANG | gd don't get me started on OE |
| 20:12.34 | INTERROBANG | never works |
| 20:12.37 | pgas | use the pdaxrom builder :) |
| 20:12.52 | INTERROBANG | yeh but that' only for that specific rom right? |
| 20:13.05 | pgas | it's a build system |
| 20:13.40 | pgas | sashz build the pdax86 live cd with it also for instance |
| 20:13.54 | INTERROBANG | is it a general arm build system or specifically for the pdaxrom? |
| 20:13.57 | pgas | there are several others out there |
| 20:14.02 | INTERROBANG | oh |
| 20:14.07 | pgas | nokia initially used scratchbox |
| 20:14.20 | pgas | now they may go to oe |
| 20:14.28 | INTERROBANG | gd |
| 20:14.32 | INTERROBANG | end of nokia |
| 20:15.17 | wayne | do you say "gd" like the graphics library, or more like a self-censored "god" ? |
| 20:15.26 | sashz | orcad protel, nostalgie |
| 20:15.27 | INTERROBANG | god damn |
| 20:15.36 | pgas | debian hasn't dropped arm |
| 20:15.47 | wayne | i was close :) |
| 20:15.49 | INTERROBANG | it's not developing it any further |
| 20:16.06 | pgas | I don't think so |
| 20:16.19 | sashz | wayne, want look my pda design? :) |
| 20:16.46 | INTERROBANG | http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20060102#1 |
| 20:16.53 | INTERROBANG | scroll down to the debian swirl |
| 20:17.40 | pgas | yeahm but they didn't stop everything |
| 20:18.02 | INTERROBANG | yeah they'll prolly update sarge for arm, but i don't want to be left behind |
| 20:18.20 | wayne | why you need arm support? |
| 20:18.51 | INTERROBANG | what about of the other programs i'd like to compile in the future that i won't be able to because the existing debian sarge packages lack up to date libs? |
| 20:19.09 | INTERROBANG | i program myself as well, i'd like to keep some libs up to date |
| 20:20.14 | INTERROBANG | preferably i'd like to have a x86 pda (which is possible with SBC's and such) |
| 20:20.31 | pgas | everything has not been availaible for arm anyway so yeah an laptop might be best |
| 20:20.36 | pgas | oqo and the like |
| 20:20.37 | INTERROBANG | but the cost makes designing my own from scratch worthwhile |
| 20:20.52 | wayne | you sure about that? |
| 20:21.00 | INTERROBANG | i'd like to learn too |
| 20:21.30 | INTERROBANG | i regret all the spare parts i missed on all those brave eletronic devies that gave their lives in the name of exploratory science |
| 20:21.43 | sashz | wayne, http://mail.pdaxrom.org/sashz/stuff/3.jpg |
| 20:21.53 | sashz | cannot find better photo |
| 20:21.59 | pgas | hey |
| 20:22.00 | sashz | my old project |
| 20:22.10 | INTERROBANG | pda attempt? |
| 20:22.26 | wayne | nice |
| 20:22.52 | sashz | Cirrus Logic EP7312 based |
| 20:24.34 | wayne | heh the stuff i build i considerably smaller than this, more like small screens and inexpensive pics microcontrollers :) but fun nonetheless |
| 20:24.40 | benplaut | wow! |
| 20:24.56 | benplaut | i leave OESF for a month, and my pdaXrom rc11 is archaic! |
| 20:25.03 | benplaut | i love open source :D |
| 20:26.14 | pgas | pdaxrom is archaic in the eyes of the openzaurus guys anyway ;) |
| 20:26.47 | wayne | and neither work on my zaurus! yay :) |
| 20:27.02 | wayne | because they probably consider my device archaic |
| 20:27.22 | benplaut | pgas: bah... |
| 20:27.35 | benplaut | then again, i haven't tried oz in forever... |
| 20:27.38 | pgas | wayne: ask sashz to compile you something |
| 20:27.50 | benplaut | i need to see how far gpe has come :) |
| 20:27.51 | wayne | pgas: which would be ? |
| 20:28.22 | pgas | an untested pdaxrom ? |
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| 20:29.23 | wayne | pgas: could be interesting |
| 20:29.31 | pgas | wayne: oz doesn't support the 5600 anymore? |
| 20:30.08 | wayne | wayne: "support" as it, it's been compiled for it, you can install it, but using it is a challenge |
| 20:30.25 | wayne | wtf |
| 20:30.30 | wayne | i mean pgas :) |
| 20:31.07 | wayne | gpe is too slow to be useful (on my 5600 of course), and gpe locks the machine every few clicks |
| 20:31.52 | pgas | hmm X is to slow? |
| 20:32.17 | wayne | i don'T know what makes it so slow exactly, but launching programs take forever |
| 20:32.18 | sashz | wayne, 5600 has 64MB flash? |
| 20:32.28 | sashz | and 32MB RAM? |
| 20:32.43 | wayne | it might be because OZ's kernel does not patch the "cpu fix" for the PXA250 which therefore slows it to a crawl |
| 20:33.00 | wayne | sashz: uuhhhh i think that's it but i'm raelly not sure (about ram/flash) |
| 20:33.35 | pgas | yeah that's it |
| 20:34.59 | sashz | like SL-C700 |
| 20:35.11 | sashz | problem only small screen |
| 20:35.17 | sashz | but i think i can add it in builder ) |
| 20:35.31 | sashz | will add as finish Archos adventure |
| 20:36.20 | wayne | yes i also think it'S the only drawback to this device, but i also chose it because it's not too big and i can carry it easier than other, bigger devices |
| 20:37.39 | sashz | hmm, clamshell devices not bigger i think |
| 20:37.55 | Hhhhh | question: what PDF reader software is available for Zaurii? |
| 20:37.55 | wayne | aren't they quite thicker? |
| 20:38.17 | pgas | Hhhhh: qpdf based on xpdf and xpdf |
| 20:38.41 | wayne | sashz: oh and another reason, they're a LOT more expensive :) (or they were when i bought it) so this was also to be taking into account :) |
| 20:40.44 | pgas | http://www.bargainpda.com/assets/sharp/zaurus/6000/ThreeZs.jpg |
| 20:41.34 | wayne | which one on the left? |
| 20:41.44 | wayne | and i'd be curious to see thikness comparison |
| 20:42.05 | wayne | this is all sooooooooo much bigger than my old sony clie! it was so small :) I love it |
| 20:42.31 | pgas | a 860 on the left |
| 20:43.51 | pgas | the newer model are a bit bigger http://www.bargainpda.com/assets/sharp_c3000/images_sm/C3000_C860.JPG |
| 20:44.35 | wayne | looks even thicker |
| 20:46.20 | pgas | yeah they still fit in a pocket though |
| 20:46.46 | wayne | but can you sit? :) |
| 20:46.50 | pgas | (well the 860 at least) |
| 20:47.00 | wayne | i already fing my 5600 bulky and slightly anoying to carry |
| 20:47.12 | wayne | anything bigger than that wouldn't go well with me |
| 20:47.50 | pgas | my 860 fits in the visor deluxe leather pouch |
| 20:48.16 | wayne | i'da rather carry a full laptop if it has to be bigger than my pocket (sparing the carry of the targus keyboard |
| 20:48.41 | wayne | ah yes well if you carry it on your belt sure, it won't change much to have a slightly bigger one |
| 20:48.48 | wayne | but i don't want to carry my stuff there |
| 20:49.03 | wayne | i already avoid to put my cellphone there as much as i can |
| 20:50.30 | pgas | I'm off to bed see you |
| 20:50.41 | wayne | ciao |
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| 22:13.14 | subdue | http://www.toilette-humor.com/wrong-phone.html |
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