| 00:03.39 | *** join/#zaurus scrllock (~scrllock@24-56-218-206.mdmmi.voyager.net) |
| 00:08.38 | *** join/#zaurus _stigger (~jeff@p110-n1-gos.nlc.net.au) |
| 00:16.52 | *** join/#zaurus trappist (trappist@trappist.usercloak.freenode) |
| 00:21.05 | trappist | ok I just got my first ever pda, a zaurus, and I can't get the wifi connection up. The light on the nic is green, I've entered the info for the wap, but when I go to the 'current' tab it says 'no available service' and I can't figure out how to connect. Any help? |
| 00:21.38 | Foxdie | there's an option to connect on the first tab, you'll have to change the pull down list to select wifi first though |
| 00:22.13 | trappist | there's no pulldown tab, and the only buttons are new, edit, delete, and wizard |
| 00:22.45 | Foxdie | I wish I could help you further, I don't have the default ROM installed on my own zaurus for reference :/ |
| 00:22.50 | trappist | I'm on the screen where the connection I've configured is listed and I can make a new one, etc. |
| 00:23.02 | trappist | oh |
| 00:23.51 | *** join/#zaurus MEME|work (~MEME|work@hnllhi1-ar7-4-7-221-000.hnllhi1.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 00:24.59 | trappist | what desktop software does everybody use to sync? |
| 00:25.57 | Foxdie | I could never get that to work so I gave up on it, didn't need Outlook sync'ing anyway :) |
| 00:26.07 | Foxdie | Anyway, bedtime for this fox, cya all |
| 00:27.49 | *** join/#zaurus mithro (~tim@dsl1-83.gw1.adl1.airnet.com.au) |
| 00:30.00 | Disconnect | trappist: I just started syncing today, using multisync (I'm on opie/oz) to evolution. works like a champ, although IIRC the results of syncing while calendar (or whatever) is open on the Z is "undefined" .. |
| 00:30.16 | Disconnect | syncing while evo is open (my big concern) works fine |
| 00:30.40 | trappist | Disconnect: thanks, I'll try that |
| 00:30.59 | Disconnect | it doesn't do backups, unfortunately. (but oz backups are a mess anyway.) |
| 00:44.32 | *** join/#zaurus br33zy (~br33zy@66-91-245-150.san.rr.com) |
| 00:48.14 | omin0us | hey |
| 00:48.26 | omin0us | someone want to help me out with making an ipk? |
| 00:50.23 | *** join/#zaurus Luke-JrZ (~zaurus@155.43.80.138) |
| 00:50.56 | Luke-JrZ | o.o |
| 00:51.02 | omin0us | hello |
| 00:51.12 | omin0us | Luke: you ever built an ipk? |
| 00:51.15 | Luke-JrZ | no |
| 00:51.22 | Luke-JrZ | i tried once and failed |
| 00:51.34 | Luke-JrZ | New Gaim isnt working |
| 00:55.19 | *** join/#zaurus stigger (~jeff@p110-n1-gos.nlc.net.au) |
| 00:56.37 | *** join/#zaurus Luke-JrZ (~zaurus@155.43.80.138) |
| 00:57.50 | Luke-JrZ | back =p |
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| 01:40.47 | *** join/#zaurus StarScream (~Am@nat.saint.net.au) |
| 02:01.22 | Disconnect | ibot: build-ipk |
| 02:01.24 | | Disconnect: are you using Windows? |
| 02:01.24 | *** part/#zaurus Disconnect (~dis@arent.you.special.you.gotontheinter.net) |
| 02:01.43 | *** join/#zaurus Disconnect (~dis@arent.you.special.you.gotontheinter.net) |
| 02:01.45 | Disconnect | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:14.35 | omin0us | Disconnect |
| 02:14.40 | omin0us | could you help me? |
| 02:17.20 | omin0us | ibot: build-ipkg |
| 02:17.23 | | omin0us: i haven't a clue |
| 02:17.33 | omin0us | ibot: ipkg build |
| 02:17.34 | | omin0us: I don't know, could you explain it? |
| 02:17.43 | omin0us | ibot: ipkg-build |
| 02:17.44 | | i guess ipkg-build is at http://www.handhelds.org/packages/ipkg-utils/ or in cvs.handhelds.org:/cvs co ipkg-utils |
| 02:17.55 | Disconnect | omin0us: looks like you found it ;) |
| 02:22.39 | omin0us | Disconnect |
| 02:22.43 | omin0us | yes, but that isn't helping |
| 02:22.53 | omin0us | read this post. my problem makes now sense. |
| 02:22.59 | omin0us | http://www.zaurus.com/dev/board/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=7198 |
| 02:26.25 | *** join/#zaurus volker-z (~boggsml@12-221-32-251.client.insightBB.com) |
| 02:26.34 | Disconnect | what rom are you on? |
| 02:26.58 | duffolonious | actually where is the location of the older zaurus roms (not openzaurus). |
| 02:27.59 | *** join/#zaurus Bala (~Bala@hsdbsk142-165-117-86.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 02:28.24 | omin0us | duffolonious: you mean like 2.78 |
| 02:28.26 | omin0us | those ones? |
| 02:28.39 | duffolonious | yeah, I want to see if I can flash those. |
| 02:28.45 | omin0us | www.zaurus.com/deb |
| 02:28.48 | omin0us | www.zaurus.com/dev |
| 02:28.50 | duffolonious | I cannot get the new oz stuff to flash |
| 02:28.52 | duffolonious | ok |
| 02:29.04 | omin0us | Disconnect: any ideas? |
| 02:29.34 | Disconnect | <Disconnect> what rom are you on? |
| 02:30.38 | omin0us | i'm developing for Cacko X11 on c760 |
| 02:30.48 | omin0us | these are the fluxbox and nethack rebuilds for the rom |
| 02:31.04 | omin0us | but for some reason the ipk isnt' building correctly or something |
| 02:33.05 | Disconnect | got it on a desktop? run 'file' against it. it should be gzipped (newer ipkg format is same as deb, and doesn't work on the old ipkg that sharp ships |
| 02:34.43 | omin0us | nope, i'm doing it all on my Z right now. my BSD box that i normally use is having problems right now, so i have to use my windows box for now |
| 02:36.09 | Disconnect | see if winzip will open it. (or install file on the Z) .. hrm. actually. |
| 02:36.13 | Disconnect | see if tar will open it |
| 02:36.22 | omin0us | yes, winzip will open it, i tried that |
| 02:37.42 | omin0us | hmm |
| 02:37.47 | omin0us | tar didn't open it |
| 02:38.23 | duffolonious | is that the issue, people using winzip? |
| 02:38.46 | Disconnect | omin0us: even with 'z'? |
| 02:39.02 | Disconnect | omin0us: in theory 'tar tzvf file.ipk' should list contents |
| 02:39.31 | *** join/#zaurus chouimat|sick (~chouimat@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 02:39.51 | duffolonious | when do that it says there is trailing garbage. |
| 02:40.04 | duffolonious | probably because it was created using winzip. |
| 02:40.20 | Disconnect | duffolonious: um? I doubt it was created with winzip. |
| 02:41.00 | duffolonious | then what is with these trailing garbage removed errors when using gzip. |
| 02:41.15 | omin0us | i never get the trailing garbage error |
| 02:41.30 | Disconnect | duffolonious: afaik you can't create tgzs with winzip. and certainly even if you can I doubt anyone is going to do so. |
| 02:41.34 | duffolonious | you don't? I have when looking at others ipkg's |
| 02:41.42 | omin0us | yes, if i rename the ipk to .tar.gz |
| 02:41.43 | omin0us | and run |
| 02:41.51 | omin0us | tar -xvzf fluxbox_0.1.7-3_arm.tar.gz |
| 02:41.56 | omin0us | its unpacks it fine |
| 02:41.59 | Disconnect | "Great, I've finally built this bin. now I'm gonna go move it to a windows machine so i can package it with winzip instead of using these handy shell scripts" |
| 02:42.13 | omin0us | and everything in intact within control.tar.gz and data.tar.gz |
| 02:42.15 | Disconnect | omin0us: into debian-version, control.tar, (binary.tar? don't remember what the 3rd one is) |
| 02:42.21 | duffolonious | well then why is there garbage at the end? |
| 02:42.24 | duffolonious | look at this: |
| 02:42.35 | Disconnect | ibot: ipkg |
| 02:42.37 | | well, ipkg is the Itsy Package Management system: http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/iPKG or find the source in the handhelds.org CVS http://cvs.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/familiar/dist/ipkg or see the howto at http://docs.zaurus.com/ipkg_howto.shtml |
| 02:42.38 | omin0us | data.tar.gz control.tar.gz debian-binary |
| 02:43.01 | omin0us | the ipkg-build.sh scripts dont work directly on the Z |
| 02:43.03 | duffolonious | tar tvzf adventure-interpreter.ipk.tar.gz |
| 02:43.04 | duffolonious | -rw-r--r-- root/root 601 2003-11-14 14:21:18 ./control.tar.gz |
| 02:43.04 | duffolonious | -rw-r--r-- root/root 953564 2003-11-14 14:09:06 ./data.tar.gz |
| 02:43.04 | duffolonious | gzip: stdin: decompression OK, trailing garbage ignored |
| 02:43.04 | duffolonious | tar: Child returned status 2 |
| 02:43.06 | duffolonious | tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors |
| 02:43.09 | omin0us | i tried to modify one to work with it |
| 02:43.15 | omin0us | but it didn't work still |
| 02:44.23 | Disconnect | omin0us: prolly gotta swap the tar arguments around a bit. but you can always copy it up to the skiffcluster and run package it there. |
| 02:45.07 | omin0us | where are the skiffs? |
| 02:46.28 | *** join/#zaurus treke|laptop (~ggilbert@lsanca2-ar29-4-41-065-242.lsanca2.elnk.dsl.genuity.net) |
| 02:47.27 | *** join/#zaurus gerrynjr (~gerrynjr@h00a0cc36b102.ne.client2.attbi.com) |
| 02:47.31 | gerrynjr | Twiun[away]: ping |
| 02:48.53 | Disconnect | ibot: skiffcluster |
| 02:48.57 | | somebody said skiffcluster was at http://handhelds.org/projects/skiffcluster.html |
| 03:01.54 | *** join/#zaurus Luke-Jr (~luke-jr@ip68-9-81-231.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 03:25.18 | chouimat|Zzzz | night |
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| 03:39.19 | omin0us | aha!! |
| 03:39.21 | omin0us | finally got it |
| 03:39.30 | omin0us | figured out what i was doing wrong |
| 03:39.35 | omin0us | i needed to tar it like |
| 03:39.58 | omin0us | tar -cvf foo.tar ./bar |
| 03:40.02 | omin0us | i just had |
| 03:40.08 | omin0us | tar -cvf foo.tar bar |
| 03:41.35 | omin0us | hey offroadgeek |
| 03:41.37 | omin0us | whats up |
| 03:41.59 | offroadgeek | not much.... just getting home from work.. checking things out.. |
| 03:42.00 | offroadgeek | you? |
| 03:42.15 | omin0us | just packaging up fluxbox right now |
| 03:42.56 | offroadgeek | I already saw (and installed) the fluxbox ipk on the cacko feed... |
| 03:44.46 | offroadgeek | what will the difference be with the fluxbox you're packaging now? |
| 03:46.22 | offroadgeek | sweet! |
| 03:46.39 | offroadgeek | I just installed the ipks I had for openssh server and client... works beautifully! |
| 03:49.12 | CdtDelta | Playing with the new Opie I take it? |
| 03:56.39 | offroadgeek | nope.. x11 rom |
| 03:57.08 | CdtDelta | I wonder if that was the one Jim showed me the other day.... |
| 03:57.53 | offroadgeek | it's too freakin' cool |
| 03:58.13 | omin0us | offroadgeek: the one on the feed is just an older one that Sash compiled and and put up real quick |
| 03:58.21 | CdtDelta | Yeah, but can I sync Notes with it ;p |
| 03:58.24 | omin0us | mine is more optimized for the X11 rom |
| 04:01.10 | offroadgeek | ahh.. cool.. will you be replacing your fluxbox with the one on the cacko feed? |
| 04:02.24 | *** part/#zaurus brokenchaos (~justin@h24-70-245-123.ok.shawcable.net) |
| 04:02.31 | omin0us | yes |
| 04:02.51 | CdtDelta | So what is x11 based off of? Debian or something? |
| 04:04.51 | offroadgeek | I believe so, but not sure... debian arm apps can be ported pretty easily so that might make sense |
| 04:05.27 | offroadgeek | just that I'm hooked :) |
| 04:05.29 | CdtDelta | Is there a homepage for x11? |
| 04:05.50 | CdtDelta | I'm trying to find the url in the zug forum |
| 04:06.23 | offroadgeek | for the zaurus version of x11? |
| 04:06.28 | offroadgeek | www.cacko.biz |
| 04:06.50 | CdtDelta | Yeah, just found it |
| 04:08.25 | *** join/#zaurus StarScream (~andrew@ppp1072.adelaide.on.net.au) |
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| 04:12.05 | *** part/#zaurus gelly (gelly@CPE-65-30-123-56.kc.rr.com) |
| 04:26.41 | Disconnect | omin0us: is the cacko x11 rom accellerated at all? |
| 04:26.44 | Disconnect | (gfx I mean) |
| 04:26.53 | treke|home | yes it is |
| 04:27.37 | Disconnect | cool |
| 04:28.06 | treke|home | Not much accereration, but what he did do is important |
| 04:29.36 | Disconnect | so its accelerated at least to a usable point I'm guessing. (from what I recall of convos before I got my Z, X without the accel was unusable) |
| 04:30.04 | treke|home | It's still pretty slow. I dont think I'd use it. |
| 04:31.50 | Disconnect | now that opie is syncing to evo (yay for multisync cvs) I'm not as worried about getting x on it. assuming kergoth gets that keyboard patch done sometime soon ;) |
| 04:33.41 | treke|home | The benchmarking app I ran came up with about a 6x improvement when using the acceleration :) |
| 04:34.09 | Disconnect | what was the bench? |
| 04:35.48 | treke|home | mostly SHMImage write speed. |
| 04:37.10 | *** join/#zaurus usual (~csmall@alb-24-195-251-37.nycap.rr.com) |
| 04:37.17 | usual | Hello :) |
| 04:37.42 | treke|home | definitly a noticable improvement though |
| 04:38.09 | treke|home | the ipaq and 5500 blow it out of the water though :) |
| 04:38.51 | usual | I am looking into purchasing a SL-5500, I am looking on ebay. Does anyone know of a better place to find a good deal on one? |
| 04:38.57 | Disconnect | well the ipaq has a bit more inside support ;) |
| 04:39.30 | treke|home | and simpler hardware. |
| 04:39.56 | Disconnect | yah |
| 04:40.13 | treke|home | since the 5500 numbers were pretty close to the ipaq numbers |
| 04:41.37 | usual | I guess ebay is a good a place as any |
| 04:41.48 | usual | it will be my first pda |
| 04:41.51 | usual | :) |
| 04:41.59 | treke|home | ebay is the most likely place to find one |
| 04:43.14 | usual | I hear the Sharp installed rom sucks, what do you suggest I do with it when I get it? openzaurus? I am a little confused as to what my options are...opie? openzaurus? sharprom? others?? |
| 04:43.53 | StarScream | usual, it depends what you want it for and what you want it to do |
| 04:43.55 | treke|home | openzaurus and proto's tkcrom are fairly popular |
| 04:44.33 | StarScream | OpenZaurus is good, but I have personally found it unstable, however i want to sync it with linux and for me it was the easiest way to do this |
| 04:44.36 | usual | StarScream, would mostly use it to keep my schedule/contacts, alert me of appointments, remote manage servers and workstations via ssh and vnc, use on wireless networks, listen to mp3's, sync with outlook/outlook express, possibly IRC or instant messenger, taking notes, storing misc files.. |
| 04:45.10 | StarScream | probably stick with the sharp one then if you are on a windows box |
| 04:45.30 | usual | because of synching? |
| 04:47.13 | StarScream | well the sharp one will let you sync with outlook, not sure if OZ does |
| 04:47.23 | usual | gotcha |
| 04:47.52 | Disconnect | StarScream: OZ will sync to anything sharp will. |
| 04:47.58 | treke|home | OZ syncs with qtopia desktop, which can sync to Outlook |
| 04:48.34 | StarScream | k well there you go...i like OZ and when its a little more stable (for the stuff I use) i would recommend it to anyone |
| 04:49.01 | usual | ok, maybe I should ask why wouldn't I want to use OZ? for what I mentioned |
| 04:49.14 | usual | in contrast to the sharp rom |
| 04:49.28 | StarScream | hmm my suggestion would be to try it.. |
| 04:49.43 | StarScream | OZ wont screw anything up afaik |
| 04:49.51 | usual | k |
| 04:50.05 | usual | got to buy one first...I am whoring ebay |
| 04:50.11 | StarScream | and yer it looks pretty has more functionality...just there a few niggling bugs.. |
| 04:50.20 | StarScream | heh |
| 04:51.08 | usual | so what exactly is opie |
| 04:51.48 | treke|home | A desktop environment. A bunch of apps designed to give you a gui to work in |
| 04:52.01 | StarScream | a pretty one at that |
| 04:52.02 | usual | ahhh |
| 04:52.14 | Disconnect | usual: on some devices (you won't fiind them on ebay) oz doesn't handle the keyboard particularly well. |
| 04:52.20 | usual | the kompany stuff looks great |
| 04:52.32 | usual | Disconnect, something to consider, ty |
| 04:52.43 | Disconnect | usual: oz hasn't got a decent, mature java implementation. (OTOH, sharp hasn't got a reasonably mature pim, and opie one of the things that shines on OZ) |
| 04:53.04 | Disconnect | usual: again, those devices aren't on ebay. (the imports - c7x0 and c8x0, clamshell models) |
| 04:53.10 | usual | i see |
| 04:53.29 | usual | i saw a few of those on ebay |
| 04:54.03 | StarScream | does OZ have anything like Handcom word etc..? |
| 04:54.16 | Disconnect | hardware drivers (wlan, ethernet, etc) are -way- better under OZ. (I spent 4 days getting a cross-compile env set up and patching crap before I got my wlan card to sorta work on sharprom. on OZ it ran out of the box..) |
| 04:54.32 | omin0us | you can get c7x0 on ebay |
| 04:54.49 | Disconnect | StarScream: opie-write. and - if you run stable OZ - hancom* runs fine under OZ |
| 04:54.51 | omin0us | just seach for: zaurus sl-c760 or 750 respectively |
| 04:55.01 | usual | geeez guys, looks like I have alot to consider and figure out when I finally get one |
| 04:55.03 | usual | hehe |
| 04:55.04 | treke|home | Don't bother with opie-write |
| 04:55.06 | Disconnect | (and for some devices, it runs on unstable as well. the rest get gcc3) |
| 04:55.14 | treke|home | it's horribly broken, and not likely to be fixed any time soon |
| 04:55.42 | StarScream | Disconnect: do i have to get hancom* off the orignial sharp ROM though? |
| 04:55.45 | usual | so what exactly is it that the kompany offers? software that runs on sharp and oz roms? |
| 04:56.12 | omin0us | usual: yes, for the most part |
| 04:56.16 | Disconnect | treke|home: well.. it prolly should come out of the default load then. (I figured the broken was gonna get fixed) |
| 04:56.19 | omin0us | usual: and a free ROM |
| 04:56.31 | treke|home | It's installed on 3.3.5? |
| 04:56.36 | usual | omin0us, so it also offers a replacment to sharp and oz rom |
| 04:56.37 | treke|home | it shouldnt even *be* in 3.3.5 |
| 04:56.53 | treke|home | nor in opie 1.0 |
| 04:57.13 | Disconnect | on ebay that is |
| 04:57.43 | Disconnect | treke|home: its on 3.3.5 - haven't looked to see if its in unsupported/ or whatever that is in the opie cvs. |
| 04:57.48 | Disconnect | but its on the default load for 3.3.5 |
| 04:57.52 | treke|home | That's stupid |
| 04:58.05 | treke|home | I'll have to smack mickey |
| 04:58.26 | Disconnect | yep. check the bug reports for rc1 on the 860, one of them (and I confirmed on 760) is that opie-write hangs if you fill a page |
| 04:58.46 | treke|home | That's been known since the day it was committed to cvs :) |
| 04:59.46 | usual | thekompany.rom is pretty |
| 05:00.06 | treke|home | Disconnect: It hasnt been fixed since July 14, 2002 :p |
| 05:07.08 | Luke-Jr | BK >:O |
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| 08:05.30 | CodeWarrior | yo |
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| 09:17.17 | rebecca1 | night yal |
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| 14:33.45 | chouimat | morning |
| 14:41.49 | Foxdie | hi |
| 14:42.23 | Foxdie | You know it's great that this channel has 71 people in it and only about 5 people ever talk :) |
| 14:46.11 | George- | BLEH |
| 14:47.20 | absentia | Morn' |
| 14:47.57 | Foxdie | signs of life! |
| 14:48.02 | Foxdie | absentia: check my sig now :P |
| 14:48.26 | absentia | fox: I'll reply next time I see it forst. :-) |
| 14:48.57 | Foxdie | ;) |
| 15:01.18 | jdh41 | Foxdie: I blame the timezones as well as the lurkers |
| 15:01.33 | Foxdie | Indeed, damn those timezones |
| 15:02.00 | Twiun | They should be banned! |
| 15:02.07 | Twiun | everything based on GMT as it should be |
| 15:03.50 | absentia | qmail is gmt ? |
| 15:04.06 | absentia | fox: I posted like 25 posts saturday |
| 15:04.07 | absentia | all were lost. |
| 15:07.49 | Foxdie | During the database loss period? |
| 15:17.47 | absentia | ya |
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| 16:08.21 | Neo|Work | mithro: Just saw your email on SA sounc on the C700 <-- odd... |
| 16:10.57 | absentia | ah |
| 16:10.59 | absentia | mithro here too. |
| 16:11.00 | absentia | neat. |
| 16:11.53 | absentia | infosec was nice yesterday... one place had a "tailgate party" .. where they were giving you (free beer) ... .... and peanuts.. .etc. |
| 16:11.59 | absentia | more conferences need to be like that. . |
| 16:16.25 | mithro | Neo|Work: ??? |
| 16:21.41 | mithro | Neo|Work: o! i just figured out what you where talking about :) |
| 16:21.50 | mithro | Strategic Assult :) |
| 16:22.47 | mithro | Neo|Work: SA is a pretty fun game, needs aload more levels though... (maybe closer to 100) |
| 16:25.34 | absentia | I don't like it |
| 16:25.36 | Neo|Work | heh, yeah |
| 16:25.43 | absentia | there shuoldn't be a game that's a click fest on a pda |
| 16:25.45 | Neo|Work | and I have no clue what's up with the sound |
| 16:25.49 | absentia | I want to work on an interface to empire |
| 16:25.54 | absentia | like xemp, etc. |
| 16:25.58 | absentia | that would be MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better. |
| 16:26.07 | Neo|Work | absentia: good thing we all like different things |
| 16:26.13 | absentia | anyone who plays empire knows that having a pda link into empire would be awesome. |
| 16:26.18 | absentia | neo: amen. |
| 16:26.26 | absentia | I love sudden strike (APRM 4.x) |
| 16:26.28 | absentia | love it. |
| 16:26.33 | absentia | but on a pda? no. |
| 16:29.04 | mithro | Neo|Work: i'll give it a try again on the latest OZ roms, i belive a few sound issues were fixed in them |
| 16:29.31 | mithro | Neo|Work: btw, what happened/happening to snails? |
| 16:29.38 | mithro | snails is a cool game |
| 16:29.56 | absentia | I need to get working on my stuff |
| 16:31.23 | Neo|Work | mithro: Snails is waiting on feedback and/or information from the original developer |
| 16:31.32 | Neo|Work | and he seems to ignore my attempts at communication |
| 16:32.36 | Disconnect | had to reboot .. which sucks, it was one of my favorites under wince |
| 16:33.18 | absentia | take a look at some images for mahjongg.... http://www.spy.org/games/mahjong/ |
| 16:33.20 | absentia | go under pics, etc. |
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| 16:33.44 | mithro | Neo|Work: ahh okay |
| 16:34.07 | absentia | I need to scale some of the images |
| 16:34.14 | absentia | some of them, 1 tile is as big as a 320x200 screen ... |
| 16:34.15 | absentia | :-/ |
| 16:34.36 | absentia | most of the images scale to 20% .. (to give 10+ tiles across) ... 10x8 is the board... I am trying to get to 12x10 |
| 16:36.50 | mithro | anyway i need to be in bed for real |
| 16:37.06 | mithro | absentia: there is already an opensource marjohn for the Z |
| 16:37.33 | *** join/#zaurus warmi (~a3c01502@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:37.37 | warmi | re |
| 16:40.49 | absentia | mithr: have you seen me go on a rank about it? |
| 16:40.53 | absentia | the tkc one is just not there |
| 16:41.05 | Neo|Work | damn this is annoying |
| 16:41.09 | absentia | and you "loose" on the xmahjong |
| 16:41.21 | absentia | you can't put in serial numbers... no high score (lowest time) list. |
| 16:41.23 | Neo|Work | scenario: complex widget with layout manager in scrollview |
| 16:41.24 | absentia | etc |
| 16:41.48 | Neo|Work | when placed in the scrollview it is resized to "max desirable size" rather than "minimum or average" |
| 16:41.58 | Neo|Work | so I get a vertical scrollbar although it's not really needed |
| 16:42.33 | Neo|Work | i.e sizeHint returns a too high value and minimum sizeHint a too small one.. |
| 16:46.16 | warmi | you working with qt 3.x Neo ? |
| 16:49.23 | Neo|Work | noep |
| 16:49.49 | kergoth | morning |
| 16:50.30 | warmi | hi |
| 16:50.37 | kergoth | hey warmi, how goes? |
| 16:51.15 | absentia | hey kergoth. |
| 16:51.45 | kergoth | hey absentia |
| 16:55.05 | warmi | not bad .. been busy again a bit |
| 16:55.17 | warmi | but that's good I guess .. means I will still have my job :-) |
| 17:03.39 | treke | mornin warmi |
| 17:03.52 | warmi | hi |
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| 17:49.57 | savant | anyone here know if the sandisk or socket sdio 802.11b cards are compatible with 5500's? |
| 17:50.25 | kergoth | nope. |
| 17:50.34 | kergoth | sdio will never work on a 5500 as things stand |
| 17:50.57 | savant | is it a hardware issue, or is the driver just incompatible? |
| 17:51.16 | kergoth | hardware. but even if it supported it, we wouldnt have the info about the cards themselves to make it work. |
| 17:51.40 | Foxdie | there's rumours flying around that the latter models at least partially support SDIO |
| 17:51.51 | savant | oh, alright. That's too bad. Thanks kergoth |
| 17:51.59 | kergoth | the latter models use the xscale mmc controller, which can be made to support sdio per some docs on the net |
| 17:52.03 | Foxdie | apparently someone has developed a driver for a SDIO based gps card |
| 17:52.06 | kergoth | but again, without the info on the specific cards, good luck |
| 17:52.23 | Foxdie | don't manufacturers release white spec papers for SDIO based cards? |
| 17:52.33 | kergoth | without an NDA? fuck no |
| 17:52.42 | kergoth | heh |
| 17:52.53 | Foxdie | wtf?! |
| 17:53.03 | Foxdie | Okay that blows. |
| 17:53.17 | Foxdie | no chance of user-programmed drivers then :( |
| 17:53.23 | savant | i've gotten the impression from the web that socket was playing nice with sharp and making sure their cards worked with zaurii. That's the only reason I had hope. |
| 17:53.45 | kergoth | well, even if they did, the drivers would be binary only.. that causes an assload of problems |
| 17:54.00 | kergoth | it held up our moving to a recent kernel for like a year |
| 17:55.56 | savant | yeah, I've been watching that. Quite frustrating. I've really come to see that in spite of being based on a linux kernel, the zaurus is far from a device in the spirit of open source. |
| 17:56.20 | kergoth | sharp just didnt know what they were getting themselves into |
| 17:56.32 | Disconnect | could be worse - try tivo sometime. |
| 17:56.37 | savant | community is more rabid than they anticipated? |
| 17:57.17 | MG_Tak | if they release open source linux drivers doesn't that essentially give the info to make drivers for whatever platform? |
| 17:57.17 | Disconnect | they went so far as to implement a userspace filesystem in 2.1.x (2.1.24 most recently) |
| 17:58.07 | Disconnect | MG_Tak: basically. although they can release open-source drivers without releasing "free" drivers (similar to how TT handled qte - pick a license that leaves your competitors fsckered..) |
| 17:58.36 | Disconnect | MG_Tak: or similar to the bitkeeper license, but with source. "Here's source, but if you use it to do anything but talk to my card I'll have your pets set on fire" |
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| 18:01.52 | MG_Tak | I think that's more than enough to keep a company from releasing open source software. |
| 18:02.02 | MG_Tak | Just because it "runs on linux" doesn't mean it needs to be open source. |
| 18:02.32 | MG_Tak | And running linux certainly doesn't give users any kind of right to have software released as open source 'just because that's what linux is about'. |
| 18:05.26 | MG_Tak | on the other hand, there're things like tkc's (fricking /me away message damnit) policy that "oh we write software but it comes with no guarantee and no source code", it's like open source software support without the ability to fix the fact that it doesn't meet the specifications they claim when the sell it to you.. |
| 18:06.11 | Disconnect | MG_Tak: no software comes with a guarantee. |
| 18:06.22 | savant | Disconnect: some does, actually |
| 18:06.38 | savant | but is lives in airports, hospitals, military installations, etc |
| 18:07.44 | MG_Tak | Disconnect: tkc's statement is worded more like a "You're screwed if it doesn't work." |
| 18:08.25 | Disconnect | savant: right. |
| 18:08.35 | Disconnect | MG_Tak: um. go read the gpl.. |
| 18:09.02 | kergoth | heh, the gpl explicitly states that it *doesnt* come with any guarantees |
| 18:09.38 | MG_Tak | most of the things I've seen released under GPL hasn't had a price tag |
| 18:10.05 | MG_Tak | But even so, there's a big difference between that and selling a product that doesn't meet its description. |
| 18:10.16 | Disconnect | MG_Tak: like microsoft? |
| 18:10.22 | kergoth | heh |
| 18:10.31 | Disconnect | or aol? or sharp? or tivo? |
| 18:10.33 | savant | ack! He said the "M" word. |
| 18:11.03 | savant | hehe, aol doesn't falsely afvertise. |
| 18:11.19 | savant | They say in all their ads "if you hate computers and technology, you'll love AOL" |
| 18:11.28 | savant | (well, not explicitly, but you know) |
| 18:12.35 | MG_Tak | I don't know. |
| 18:13.04 | MG_Tak | I haven't bought a Microsoft product that said "Supports IMAP and IMAPs" and then gone to use it and found out that there's nothing at all resembling either. |
| 18:13.59 | kergoth | thats pretty messed up. |
| 18:14.13 | MG_Tak | and then they tell you "that's in the works" |
| 18:14.22 | MG_Tak | which it used to say on the page, granted |
| 18:14.31 | Disconnect | MG_Tak: try buying a sprint phone that is "gps-enabled" .. then discovering that its 110% disabled and they consistently say "we're working on it; expect more information [insert dates 3 and 6 months in the future]" .. (fyi they did this for about 2 years so far) |
| 18:14.49 | MG_Tak | Disconnect: I wouldn't like that either. :) |
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| 18:15.02 | MG_Tak | They're free to do what they want, it just takes away from their credibility. |
| 18:15.07 | Disconnect | really? you never bought outlook, which said (for a while at least) "now with improved security. read email without worries" |
| 18:15.22 | savant | ain't that the truth. I've a $250 sprint phone that's only differentiation from a $100 sprint phone is vaporware |
| 18:15.36 | MG_Tak | Disconnect: well, no, I never did buy outlook.. though it came with my PC. ;) |
| 18:15.42 | MG_Tak | but I read email without worries |
| 18:15.49 | treke | Who was the guy in here that wanted to be able to sue open source developers if their software didnt work properly |
| 18:16.06 | MG_Tak | or limited worries, since pine is notoriously unsafe but no one seems to care |
| 18:16.09 | kergoth | treke: hah |
| 18:16.09 | warmi | hehe |
| 18:16.18 | MG_Tak | treke: I remember that kid |
| 18:16.21 | kergoth | "i didnt buy this, but damnit, give me money" |
| 18:16.24 | warmi | well, open source doesn't mean free ... |
| 18:16.31 | warmi | so if he paid for it , why not |
| 18:16.33 | treke | warmi: He included free in it |
| 18:17.13 | warmi | well, if you can sue gun manufactures because some moonbat decided to rob a bank with a gun ... anything is possible |
| 18:17.26 | MG_Tak | warmi: I wish you couldn't. |
| 18:17.40 | kergoth | warmi: heh, have you ever read the GPL? it explicitly states that it comes with no warranty of any kind. |
| 18:17.43 | MG_Tak | even if the thing doesn't work quite right at all |
| 18:17.49 | kergoth | warmi: selling it doesnt change the terms of the license |
| 18:18.37 | kergoth | bleh, need caffinated beverages. bbiab |
| 18:18.44 | Disconnect | MG_Tak: I can release a program under the gpl (but making bins easy and telling you to request sources) that formats your machine every now and again, just cuz it got bored. thats LEGAL (discounting the trojan/hacker laws, of course. but if it happened accidentally - eg I release something like 'dump'..) |
| 18:18.57 | warmi | kergoth: I know ... still, as I said, looks like US judiciall system is anything but rational these days so anything is possible |
| 18:19.04 | Disconnect | done that way, chances are 95% of the people are never gonna even think about requesting sources. |
| 18:19.35 | MG_Tak | Disconnect: what's your point..? |
| 18:19.35 | Disconnect | and if I play a little fast/loose with it (ahem3.3.5ahem) I can sink lots of people before I release something resembling the sources ;) |
| 18:19.36 | treke | 95% of people are never going to think there are source :) |
| 18:20.12 | MG_Tak | Disconnect: not being sarcastic or anything, I just don't see where you were going with tat. :) |
| 18:20.16 | MG_Tak | that, even. |
| 18:20.19 | Disconnect | MG_Tak: (and fyi, I can "release" for money and only issue sources to payed customers..) its legal. the gpl is no more insurance of functionality than tk's "sux2bu" license.. |
| 18:20.47 | MG_Tak | Disconnect: I'm not really talking about licensing, it's more about company ethics and credibility. |
| 18:21.13 | MG_Tak | If you right a license agreement that allows me to screw you every day if I wish to, then I can.. that doesn't make me a great guy though.. if that makes any sense. |
| 18:21.53 | absentia | kergoth: will you have any time this weekend to help me finish the oemake? |
| 18:22.04 | absentia | kergoth: I got to a point where each new package wsa failling... |
| 18:22.04 | kergoth | absentia: should, yeah |
| 18:22.06 | absentia | ok |
| 18:22.16 | absentia | I'd like to document that, clean it up, and have it posted somewhere.. |
| 18:22.25 | absentia | it should help more people at least be able to "test" ... if not dev. |
| 18:22.29 | kergoth | yeah, i agree |
| 18:22.53 | MG_Tak | is PyQt on the Z a good plaftorm to look into for small apps (ie: car mileage or tip calculator or sync software)? |
| 18:23.35 | kergoth | i assume by small you mean simple and easy, not small in size, since python and pyqt arent exactyl tiny |
| 18:23.39 | kergoth | yeah, it is in that case |
| 18:23.40 | kergoth | :) |
| 18:23.47 | kergoth | pyqt works real well |
| 18:23.51 | MG_Tak | that kind of small, yes. :) |
| 18:24.37 | MG_Tak | absentia: for? |
| 18:24.46 | absentia | I'm going to write evrything I code in python... qt. |
| 18:24.57 | absentia | probably start with a buzzword bingo ... (ie: simple introduction to qt, etc) |
| 18:25.01 | absentia | then mahjongg, perhaps more stuff.. |
| 18:25.08 | absentia | it's slightly slower... |
| 18:25.15 | MG_Tak | absentia: what do you develop with? |
| 18:25.27 | kergoth | the nice thing about pyqt is how close it holds to the c++ qt api |
| 18:25.28 | absentia | but I have my code that I can run under qt3, with nice advanced features, but it still runs under qt2, just without some graphical stuff |
| 18:25.30 | absentia | which is ok |
| 18:25.37 | absentia | I develop with python. |
| 18:25.44 | MG_Tak | absentia: any IDE? |
| 18:25.48 | absentia | emacs |
| 18:25.56 | MG_Tak | a friend of mine is huge on.. shoot what's that editor |
| 18:26.05 | absentia | I mostly use vnc or ssh into the Z... and use a real keyboard |
| 18:26.05 | kergoth | vim? :) |
| 18:26.10 | Disconnect | absentia: want a real winner? code up a more generic interface that can be backended on qt or gtk. |
| 18:26.18 | absentia | on the Z, I have tkceditor.... but I don't use it much.... just for simple little thing |
| 18:26.20 | Disconnect | that'll let developers do cross-platform apps fairly simply |
| 18:26.29 | kergoth | tinykate is real nice on the Z |
| 18:26.34 | MG_Tak | Disconnect: that'd be cool |
| 18:26.37 | absentia | the idea is not to do long term dev on the z screen and/or keyboard... but have it there, in case I'm in a hotel room, airport, etc. |
| 18:26.49 | absentia | dis: there is one.. "anygui" I think |
| 18:27.03 | absentia | look for anygui |
| 18:27.10 | absentia | eric3 |
| 18:27.17 | absentia | I have it under freebsd and solaris |
| 18:27.19 | absentia | but not on the Z |
| 18:27.21 | absentia | I'd love it on the z. |
| 18:27.28 | MG_Tak | eric3, there we go :) |
| 18:27.37 | MG_Tak | why I thought 'roger' instead of eric, who knows.. |
| 18:27.40 | absentia | with local API, opera (fullscreen) to switch from tkceditor.... that's all I need. |
| 18:27.54 | absentia | eric3 is nice that it will collapse indentation |
| 18:28.03 | absentia | file-tree style... |
| 18:28.05 | absentia | ok, food is here |
| 18:28.08 | absentia | pizza forevreyone |
| 18:28.11 | absentia | yesterday it was free beer |
| 18:28.16 | absentia | back after food and presents. |
| 18:28.57 | MG_Tak | Could it be that using gcc3 broke tkc apps? |
| 18:29.29 | kergoth | MG_Tak: of course it did |
| 18:29.51 | kergoth | the c++ abi changed. binary compatibility does not exist between c++ across 2.95.x to 3.x |
| 18:30.10 | kergoth | mithro has a compat ipk that installs gcc2 versions of things to run old apps |
| 18:30.12 | kergoth | ask him about it |
| 18:30.31 | kergoth | its big, but if you're as spoiled by the performance of the gcc3 image as i am, .. |
| 18:30.34 | kergoth | heh |
| 18:31.10 | Disconnect | MG_Tak: long and short is that between gcc2 and gcc3 the asm binary interface for calling c++ functions and such changed |
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| 18:34.40 | MG_Tak | http://opie.info/~opielook/entry.php?id=58 <-- I really like this BG |
| 18:35.04 | MG_Tak | should resize it to fit the 5600 and use it |
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| 18:36.57 | MG_Tak | got 3 finals in 3 days, a funeral all day tomorrow and I'm sitting here looking at opie shots. |
| 18:37.10 | kergoth | yay for unproductivity |
| 18:38.52 | MG_Tak | kergoth: indeed |
| 18:39.14 | kergoth | "I did absolutely nothing, and it was everything I thought it could be!" |
| 18:39.21 | kergoth | </obligatory office space reference> |
| 18:46.26 | treke | he flashed the X11 image and all my data went bye bye |
| 18:46.34 | MG_Tak | he? |
| 18:46.42 | treke | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:46.44 | treke | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:47.00 | MG_Tak | ah |
| 18:47.14 | treke | I got used to flashing not touching the /home partition. the X11 image did :) |
| 18:47.42 | MG_Tak | ack |
| 18:48.05 | MG_Tak | is there an app to convert sharp backups to some other format? |
| 18:48.10 | MG_Tak | (I really should google it..) |
| 18:48.26 | kergoth | it isnt hte backup thats the problem, its the pim data format |
| 18:48.51 | treke | MG_Tak: qtopia desktop |
| 18:48.58 | treke | It stores it in xml iirc |
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| 18:51.37 | MG_Tak | kergoth: the data I have isn't the PIM stuff |
| 18:52.55 | MG_Tak | it's data from tkcKapital, I think, mostly. I don't even know if that's actually saved. |
| 18:53.12 | MG_Tak | backups made through the sharprom app, not qtopia desktop |
| 19:01.19 | Disconnect | MG_Tak: IIRC I was poking a sharp backup and found it to be a tgz |
| 19:04.02 | MG_Tak | Disconnect: I'll try that. |
| 19:04.18 | treke | hmm fun. Opie scales the background to fit, but doesnt rescale on rotation |
| 19:04.30 | kergoth | heh, sounds like a bug |
| 19:04.54 | treke | yup. So if I boot in portrait, my background tiles in landscape. If I boot in landscape it doesnt tile in portrait :) |
| 19:05.19 | kergoth | ah |
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| 19:05.29 | treke | I'll poke at it. |
| 19:07.44 | MG_Tak | treke: it doesn't seem to on 5600 |
| 19:08.04 | MG_Tak | or maybe it does and scrolls |
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| 19:18.31 | frobnoid | Is there any way to boot to single user mode? My zaurus (sharp rom) hangs on boot, and I'd rather not lose the internal data by reflashing (that'll teach me to keep anything on the internal memory) |
| 19:18.53 | raduga | hello peoples ! |
| 19:26.28 | raduga | any news connected with the resurrection of zaurus.com? |
| 19:35.26 | raduga | er. any news from Sharp at all? |
| 19:35.52 | kergoth | heh, dont push your luck. just be glad its back |
| 19:37.45 | Foxdie | why did it go down in the first place/ |
| 19:37.48 | Foxdie | maintenance work or something else? |
| 19:38.58 | warmi | is anyone using that site anyway ? |
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| 19:56.22 | anderex | #openzaurus |
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| 20:30.29 | absentia | re |
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| 20:47.23 | George- | warmi: yeh, I use zaurus.com... from time to time... |
| 20:57.01 | warmi | do they have any new content there ? |
| 20:57.27 | kergoth | some people apparently use the forums |
| 20:57.31 | kergoth | though we have too damn many of those already |
| 20:57.40 | kergoth | i only use it to grab embedix sources on occasion |
| 21:11.26 | George- | warmi: I use the forums |
| 21:11.30 | George- | kergoth: huh? we do? |
| 21:11.36 | George- | kergoth: where are the other fora? |
| 21:19.19 | absentia | where can I get the kernel source? |
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