| 00:00.22 | Pendalar | manual not paste *sigh* |
| 00:00.35 | Pendalar | and now firebird won't play.. |
| 00:00.47 | Pendalar | yeah that's it |
| 00:00.49 | offroadgeek | hah |
| 00:00.54 | Pendalar | notice what the item is about, then scroll down |
| 00:01.02 | Pendalar | for advices |
| 00:01.44 | Pendalar | pretty good stuff |
| 00:02.03 | offroadgeek | "Thank heaven for little boys" |
| 00:02.06 | offroadgeek | gift set |
| 00:02.09 | offroadgeek | LOL |
| 00:02.14 | Pendalar | ;-) |
| 00:02.34 | Pendalar | friend of mine told me about that earlier today, took me awhile to find it |
| 00:04.06 | absentia | number 1s? |
| 00:04.08 | absentia | just cheap ? |
| 00:06.34 | *** join/#zaurus dys (~dys@195.137.83.130) |
| 00:06.39 | dys | hi all :) |
| 00:06.58 | Pendalar | absentia: scroll down |
| 00:07.09 | Pendalar | to recommendations |
| 00:10.14 | offroadgeek | time to bring out the holiday cheer... |
| 00:10.20 | offroadgeek | http://www.zaurususergroup.com/downloads/burgerking.swf |
| 00:12.54 | crazygo | lol |
| 00:12.58 | crazygo | nice one :) |
| 00:13.10 | Pendalar | http://www.pixyland.org/peterpan/ |
| 00:13.14 | Pendalar | what's up with that? |
| 00:15.37 | crazygo | loox like some kind of fetish site?! :))) |
| 00:16.01 | Pendalar | I have no idea.. it's wacked at any rate |
| 00:16.07 | crazygo | heehee |
| 00:18.20 | dys | nice offroad ! |
| 00:20.09 | crazygo | Starting nmap V. 3.00 ( www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) |
| 00:20.09 | crazygo | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:20.09 | crazygo | (The 1020 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: filtered) |
| 00:20.09 | crazygo | Port State Service |
| 00:20.09 | crazygo | 22/tcp open ssh |
| 00:20.11 | crazygo | 80/tcp open http |
| 00:20.14 | crazygo | 113/tcp closed auth |
| 00:20.16 | crazygo | 443/tcp open https |
| 00:20.19 | crazygo | aaaaaaaaaa |
| 00:20.22 | crazygo | sorry |
| 00:22.39 | *** join/#zaurus treke (~ggilbert@12.107.12.130) |
| 00:27.48 | offroadgeek | glad you liked it :) |
| 00:42.33 | absentia | anyone have a copy of the matrix spoof ms did at comdex |
| 00:42.38 | absentia | or any of the images from it ? |
| 00:45.14 | *** join/#zaurus omin0us (omin0us@216.222.87.96) |
| 00:46.22 | absentia | found'm |
| 00:46.24 | absentia | fuck ms |
| 01:08.52 | *** part/#zaurus crazygo (crazygo@vwbus-archiv.de) |
| 01:15.11 | dys | offroad I just caught your reply to my irc thread in the forums |
| 01:15.45 | dys | I think your right, no point fragmenting more than we have to |
| 01:20.25 | treke | fragment away |
| 01:20.46 | offroadgeek | cool... I just hate to duplicate things... |
| 01:24.55 | dys | yeah I agree, I think all I was trying to get across was that if sharp had pulled support (and now even if it turns out it hasn't) we should have a central point for the community. ZUG seems a good choice for this..... |
| 01:25.05 | *** join/#zaurus Ruied_Zaurus (~Ruied_Zau@81.84.147.82) |
| 01:25.09 | dys | .....and as everyone knows, every community needs IRC !!!;) |
| 01:25.13 | treke | I think you should do that even if sharp doesnt pull the plug |
| 01:25.16 | treke | :) |
| 01:25.56 | dys | yeah, I agree I personally used the sharp site very little anyway so whether they are supporting make very little difference to me |
| 01:26.10 | offroadgeek | i agree... and I think most others would agree... |
| 01:27.14 | treke | Though I don't see the need for the source forge clone, people can easilly sign up with sourceforge |
| 01:27.14 | offroadgeek | plus, the sharp forums are a little dated... no x11 forum, and it was hard to get the forums updated, even with spencer there! |
| 01:27.36 | treke | and afaik sharp never fully set the site up. CVS never worked when I looked |
| 01:27.41 | dys | personally i prefer the zug site, a lot cleaner and more informative |
| 01:28.01 | offroadgeek | dys, thanks.. but I'm not sure everyone would agree with that... |
| 01:28.18 | dys | well each to their own, just thought i'd say |
| 01:28.30 | offroadgeek | I think some people are partial to certain boards.... |
| 01:29.21 | dys | well your never gonna please everyone all the time, do what you think is best. There will always be ppl moaning regardless !! |
| 01:29.38 | offroadgeek | true, true, true... |
| 01:30.14 | dys | have you noticed alot more traffic on zug since the devnet closures ? |
| 01:30.59 | offroadgeek | about double... but it's easily handled on the new server :) |
| 01:31.10 | offroadgeek | I want to slashdot it again to see what happens... |
| 01:31.53 | dys | well you know what they say '......slahdot, the fun and easy way to perform a DDOS.....' ! |
| 01:31.57 | *** join/#zaurus chouimat (~chouimat@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 01:32.09 | offroadgeek | lol |
| 01:46.31 | *** join/#zaurus br33zy (~br33zy@66-91-245-150.san.rr.com) |
| 01:55.17 | dys | I'm trying to upgrade to opie1.0.3 and the upgrade keeps hanging on the libqte file when its extracting it to / . Anyone any ideas? |
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| 02:41.12 | *** mode/#zaurus [+o ChanServ] by tolkien.freenode.net |
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| 03:04.50 | absentia | re |
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| 03:15.11 | absentia | re |
| 03:26.15 | absentia | I need better quality mp3s. |
| 03:26.24 | absentia | 128bits just doesn't cut it |
| 03:26.46 | Reddog-[Away] | so.. get better ones? |
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| 03:58.03 | chouimat | night |
| 03:58.10 | absentia | night |
| 03:59.08 | *** join/#zaurus omin0us (omin0us@216.222.87.96) |
| 03:59.15 | absentia | hey |
| 03:59.17 | absentia | you get your 760 ? |
| 03:59.20 | absentia | one site you said it was stolen |
| 03:59.23 | absentia | the other site you said you got it |
| 03:59.37 | omin0us | yeah |
| 03:59.41 | omin0us | i got it |
| 03:59.46 | omin0us | i was sent to the wrong house |
| 03:59.48 | absentia | congrats |
| 03:59.50 | omin0us | yeah |
| 03:59.52 | omin0us | its awesome |
| 03:59.58 | omin0us | got the X11 rom on it right now |
| 04:00.17 | absentia | ah |
| 04:00.20 | absentia | is that any good? |
| 04:00.24 | omin0us | yeah, i like it |
| 04:00.27 | absentia | can it still run qtopia apps ? |
| 04:00.34 | omin0us | nope :( |
| 04:01.15 | omin0us | i just wish it could rotate though |
| 04:01.29 | kergoth | it can, but not on the fly i dont think |
| 04:02.00 | absentia | hell, I can't even run pyqt when the screen is rotated. |
| 04:02.56 | omin0us | do you have a c7x0? |
| 04:03.18 | absentia | c700 & c760 |
| 04:03.23 | omin0us | oh |
| 04:03.24 | omin0us | cool |
| 04:03.27 | absentia | I was supposed to flash oz 3.3.5 on the 700 tonight |
| 04:03.31 | omin0us | oh |
| 04:03.36 | omin0us | i tried it last night |
| 04:03.37 | absentia | but I decided to destroy all my filesystems on all my systems.. instead. |
| 04:03.39 | omin0us | it is nice |
| 04:03.41 | absentia | seemed like less pain. |
| 04:04.00 | absentia | (just joking ... for those who can't tell) |
| 04:04.05 | omin0us | lol |
| 04:04.09 | absentia | I'm tired of not having my files |
| 04:04.18 | omin0us | heh |
| 04:04.20 | absentia | so i'm making all my systems have the same paths, and I'm using rsync to sync all my machines |
| 04:04.43 | absentia | I'll include my z and all my virtuals, too |
| 04:04.45 | absentia | :-> |
| 04:04.54 | omin0us | heh |
| 04:05.01 | absentia | boot up my Z, rsync down from the net.. bewm..all my latest files. |
| 04:05.15 | cyn | absentia: heh |
| 04:05.29 | cyn | absentia: it is pretty tiring having machines rsyncing all randomly back and forth yeah |
| 04:05.40 | absentia | tiring ? |
| 04:05.40 | cyn | a little unification could be cool |
| 04:05.52 | absentia | it's not random |
| 04:06.03 | absentia | I'm not going to set it up as some sort of automatic thing |
| 04:06.27 | cyn | I was talking about how I tend to have it |
| 04:06.35 | absentia | ya |
| 04:06.39 | cyn | rsync homedir to this machine, rsync this machines homedir elsewhere |
| 04:06.40 | cyn | etc. |
| 04:06.42 | absentia | I just want to edit my .tcshrc at work |
| 04:06.45 | absentia | and when I get home, have those files. |
| 04:06.53 | absentia | I have 6 versions of my own .tcshrc! |
| 04:07.03 | cyn | heh |
| 04:07.06 | absentia | ya |
| 04:07.14 | absentia | I do it.. rsync up to a master |
| 04:07.16 | absentia | rsync down from a master |
| 04:07.24 | absentia | do all my work on the master |
| 04:07.29 | absentia | since it's faster to dl than to ul |
| 04:07.33 | absentia | I'm doing the initial ul now |
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| 04:10.57 | omin0us | hey |
| 04:11.17 | omin0us | you know where to get zgcc 3.x that for the x11 rom? |
| 04:11.41 | *** part/#zaurus MacDigas (~MacDigas@ip68-100-105-119.dc.dc.cox.net) |
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| 04:36.33 | absentia | yes |
| 04:36.35 | absentia | same dir |
| 04:39.16 | omin0us | it wasn't in there? |
| 04:39.26 | omin0us | nvm, i found a copy of it mirrored on ZUG |
| 04:40.05 | absentia | I grabbed a copy to |
| 04:40.07 | absentia | too |
| 04:40.39 | omin0us | hmm, if i could get xrandr to work, i could just write a script and put an icon on the taskbar and then just rotate with a single click |
| 04:41.22 | omin0us | would be nice if i could find out how sharp rotates just by turning the screen, well, i know they use the little black rod things that stick out right under the hinge |
| 04:41.48 | omin0us | but like how to do something when that is triggered |
| 04:44.12 | cyn | omin0us: did you see the stuff in #openzaurus - I take it there was no difference ? |
| 04:45.03 | cyn | also omin0us there's a small binary that they call to check the state of those rods - there's actually two of them, one above the 1/2 key as well |
| 04:45.22 | cyn | and in this case / stands for AND heh |
| 04:51.47 | omin0us | lol |
| 04:51.53 | omin0us | yeah, i've seen that one |
| 04:52.03 | omin0us | isn't the second one to shut off the screen. |
| 04:52.18 | omin0us | when you close it with LCD face down |
| 05:11.52 | *** join/#zaurus treke|laptop (~ggilbert@evrtwa1-ar13-4-62-145-063.elnk.dsl.gtei.net) |
| 05:12.29 | cyn | omin0us: the second one tells the zaurus whether the screen is facing the pda or the user - if it's facing the user it should rotate to portrait/pda mode |
| 05:12.44 | cyn | if it's facing the pda it doesn't have to rotate - I don't know if it turns off I don't think so |
| 05:13.07 | cyn | why so it does |
| 05:13.10 | cyn | handy that |
| 05:13.21 | cyn | omfg they even did it right |
| 05:13.26 | treke|laptop | It disables the LCD afaik |
| 05:13.34 | cyn | flipping it back open brings it back on yeah |
| 05:13.42 | cyn | my picturebook was bad about that |
| 05:13.54 | cyn | closing the screen disabled the lcd - AND the little camera built into it |
| 05:14.08 | cyn | which was powered / accessed through the video stuff (naturally) |
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| 13:03.20 | gui | hi |
| 13:03.35 | gui | Where can I download the kernel source ? |
| 13:05.07 | Twiun | gui: it should be available from the zaurus.com site, but that's currently down |
| 13:06.48 | gui | ok |
| 13:06.50 | gui | that's my pb :) |
| 13:07.06 | gui | and about the libopie ? |
| 13:07.18 | gui | I just want to use some ipkg package |
| 13:08.12 | Twiun | you can try the openzaurus.org feeds for libopie... but some apps don't run that well on the sharp rom |
| 13:10.44 | gui | ok |
| 13:11.02 | gui | thank you |
| 13:11.06 | gui | I leave now |
| 13:11.06 | gui | bye |
| 13:11.07 | gui | ;) |
| 13:36.07 | fluxx | Can someone give me a hint on a wireless network problem? I want to capture packets (especially beacons) while _not_ in rfmon mode but I'm not sure how to do that. It would be best if it could be done on a Sharp 3.13 rom without wireless extensions but if someone know how to do it on an OZ rom that would be great aswell |
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| 14:23.14 | absentia | morn' |
| 14:47.41 | *** join/#zaurus gui (gui@ABordeaux-103-1-27-64.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 14:47.46 | gui | hi |
| 14:48.37 | *** join/#zaurus Setzer (steve@66.141.130.10) |
| 14:48.59 | gui | I search a mirror for downloading kernel src of sharp... (www.sharp.com url down) |
| 14:49.53 | frankps | hm. that has alway belonged to some help care |
| 14:50.22 | frankps | sadly www.zaurus.com seems to be down |
| 14:53.22 | Twiun | has been since monday, read up about it on www.zaurususergroup.com |
| 14:59.06 | frankps | thank you |
| 15:16.42 | chouimat | morning |
| 15:20.06 | gui | k |
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| 15:28.00 | gui | + |
| 15:28.04 | *** part/#zaurus gui (gui@ABordeaux-103-1-27-64.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:51.47 | djk | frankps: Spencer's old boss tells me zaurus.com is down temporarily and should be back in a week. One can hope. |
| 15:52.45 | frankps | :-) |
| 15:53.13 | frankps | Spencer's old boss, has Spencer quit? |
| 15:56.00 | absentia | is sharp working on it? |
| 15:56.07 | absentia | or is it just a physical move? |
| 15:56.14 | absentia | seems more than coincidental. |
| 15:56.22 | Disconnect | frankps: yah, spencer bailed |
| 15:57.44 | frankps | sad to hear |
| 15:57.56 | frankps | what is he working with now, if I can ask? |
| 16:04.31 | *** join/#zaurus ciaolinux (~paolo@pool-141-150-141-200.mad.east.verizon.net) |
| 16:11.09 | djk | absentia: no explaination and I wouldn't expect one. Just that the outage is temporary was his comment. |
| 16:11.56 | djk | frankps: he is moving to CA with another tech company and says he will still see us at the shows. |
| 16:13.00 | frankps | nice to hear that he doesn't leave the platform completly |
| 16:13.04 | frankps | see you all |
| 16:13.08 | frankps | have a nice weekend |
| 16:16.37 | absentia | chip: what's the total size of gaim... |
| 16:16.39 | absentia | for the z ? |
| 16:16.43 | absentia | with all libs? |
| 16:16.48 | ChipX86 | pretty big. Nothing that can be done about that |
| 16:17.05 | absentia | I kow |
| 16:17.05 | *** join/#zaurus Disconnect (~dis@arent.you.special.you.gotontheinter.net) |
| 16:17.09 | absentia | I think I said 14mb the other day |
| 16:17.15 | absentia | wanna make sure I'm not misrepresenting gaim |
| 16:17.27 | ChipX86 | I haven't checked the numbers |
| 16:17.29 | absentia | ok |
| 16:17.32 | absentia | np |
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| 16:19.22 | Disconnect | considering its only 6M on x86, with -everything- enabled, I doubt its 14M on arm.. unless you forgot to strip the binaries. |
| 16:19.39 | ChipX86 | they're stripped |
| 16:19.49 | ChipX86 | but you're not taking into account the gnutls stuff or libopie or anything |
| 16:20.01 | ChipX86 | anyhow, I just woke up, so such topics are forbidden :P |
| 16:20.08 | Disconnect | ah. yah. depends on what you already have for other apps I guess ;) |
| 16:22.27 | absentia | grrr |
| 16:22.41 | absentia | ZUG is the only website that's not allowing mozilla to remember the username and password so |
| 16:22.44 | absentia | I don't have to keep typing it in |
| 16:23.18 | *** join/#zaurus chuckr (~Snak@may.chuckr.org) |
| 16:23.22 | absentia | and it seems REALLY screwed up |
| 16:23.35 | absentia | in remembering which messages have been read last. |
| 16:26.01 | Disconnect | most forums are. thats why I prefer lists. |
| 16:26.15 | absentia | proto seems pretty excited about the zaurus.com coming back monday. |
| 16:28.39 | chuckr | hello. Trying to start pyhdoc on the z, it complains it can't open module "opcode", but I can't find any python-code ipk. Any idea where this module might come from? |
| 16:28.59 | treke|home | absentia: I imagine he wood be :) |
| 16:29.26 | treke|home | might not be packaged. |
| 16:29.34 | chuckr | I'm sorry, my typing is worse today, that's pydoc I'm opening, and I looked for python-opcode |
| 16:29.41 | absentia | tr: why? |
| 16:29.56 | treke|home | absentia: because he hosts his stuff on zaurus.com |
| 16:29.59 | chuckr | I wanted to read the docs on the zaurus |
| 16:30.20 | treke|home | should be in python=lang. |
| 16:30.38 | chuckr | I tried googling it. I thtink I already ahve python lang, but lemme check that |
| 16:30.52 | absentia | er, right.. I read hispost where he had his tail between his legs. |
| 16:32.44 | offroadgeek | absentia: you still having problems with mozilla? |
| 16:36.07 | absentia | yes |
| 16:36.12 | absentia | I'll try opera. |
| 16:36.51 | absentia | mm, don'e have it here on this box... I'll try galleon |
| 16:36.53 | *** join/#zaurus Pendalar (Pendalar@h130.73.40.69.ip.alltel.net) |
| 16:37.12 | absentia | argh |
| 16:37.14 | absentia | I can't do that now |
| 16:37.19 | absentia | if I log in again, all my pointers will be fubarred |
| 16:37.22 | absentia | if I log out and then back in |
| 16:37.25 | absentia | it will think I read all posts |
| 16:37.30 | absentia | stupid stupid stupid software |
| 16:37.38 | absentia | I'll finish reasding first, and then try again when I'm done. |
| 16:38.31 | absentia | org: I don't think this is your problem... it's just the way things work together. |
| 16:38.42 | absentia | I wouldj't worry about it. I bitch a lot, but it's just letting off steam. |
| 16:39.17 | offroadgeek | I'm using mozilla on my suse box, and I don't have the same troubles |
| 16:39.48 | offroadgeek | I'm speaking of the keeping the username/password thing |
| 16:40.27 | offroadgeek | there is a bug in the phpbb2 forums with the 'read/unread' posts |
| 16:40.35 | *** join/#zaurus fliplap (~heh@parliament.funkadelic.net) |
| 16:40.45 | offroadgeek | I have the same trouble too... especially if I log into the zug from a different computer |
| 16:41.01 | offroadgeek | I had that same trouble on the devnet forums though |
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| 16:43.20 | absentia | off: like I said, one is probably just my side.. I'm running redhat mozilla 1.5.1... I'll try another version elsewhere. |
| 16:43.27 | offroadgeek | nod |
| 16:43.28 | absentia | the other, the read thing... is just the nature of the beast. |
| 16:43.48 | absentia | it only bites me occasionally.. ie: if my browser crashes, and I go back, I've lost all unread notices, etc. |
| 16:44.00 | absentia | my opera at home crashes every 5-10 minutes. |
| 16:44.08 | absentia | I'll get about 50 crashes per browsing session |
| 16:44.25 | absentia | I can make netscape 2.x crash |
| 16:44.30 | absentia | and all mozilla.. and now opera crash |
| 16:44.37 | offroadgeek | my opera on my suse box crashes upon every launch now... |
| 16:44.38 | absentia | just by clicking twice before it finishes drawing. |
| 16:44.46 | absentia | ie: click on a file menu, or hit back... and then go to a menu |
| 16:44.47 | offroadgeek | stupid browser is unusable now |
| 16:44.49 | absentia | and CLICK CLICK... |
| 16:44.53 | absentia | it will pause, and then crash. |
| 16:44.59 | fliplap | fun |
| 16:45.03 | absentia | it's been this way since '95... I figure it will nevre be fixed. |
| 16:45.14 | absentia | off: start up with no pages. |
| 16:45.20 | offroadgeek | that's why I like IE better ;) |
| 16:45.33 | offroadgeek | I've done that... still nothing |
| 16:45.35 | absentia | also, I lose my bookmark and file... menu bar.. somehow... I got it back, I think it's some magic key combo. |
| 16:45.45 | absentia | I have to try firebird |
| 16:45.54 | absentia | I was looking into mozile -- but the docs are abismal and I couldn't figure it out. |
| 16:46.09 | offroadgeek | wow.. no flames from my IE joke |
| 16:48.03 | absentia | dunno. |
| 16:48.06 | absentia | a browser's a browser. |
| 16:48.14 | absentia | I just hate it when people CODE for only one browser. |
| 16:48.21 | absentia | sh!t that only works if viewed in ie... etc. |
| 16:48.27 | absentia | I don't care which browser you or anyone uses.... |
| 16:48.58 | *** join/#zaurus omin0us (omin0us@216.222.87.96) |
| 16:48.59 | absentia | other that the one shoved down everyone's throught through illegal use of poewrs by a monopoly that to this day still refuses to admit that it is a monopoly and that it broke the law.... |
| 16:49.53 | offroadgeek | what's funny is the Unofficial Zaurus FAQ page (on the ZUG) doesn't view properly in IE... but works fine in mozilla, opera, konq, etc. |
| 16:50.04 | offroadgeek | the FAQ image doesn't load for some reason... |
| 16:50.07 | omin0us | hey offroadgeek |
| 16:50.22 | offroadgeek | hey omin0us, how do you like the 760? |
| 16:50.23 | *** join/#zaurus Ruied_Zaurus (~Ruied_Zau@81.84.147.82) |
| 16:50.24 | omin0us | whats up |
| 16:50.31 | omin0us | yes, i love it |
| 16:50.32 | *** part/#zaurus Ruied_Zaurus (~Ruied_Zau@81.84.147.82) |
| 16:50.45 | offroadgeek | of course you do... it's the best ever! |
| 16:50.51 | omin0us | yes |
| 16:50.59 | omin0us | i am running Sash's X11 |
| 16:51.06 | omin0us | and it so awesome to see X running on it |
| 16:51.06 | *** join/#zaurus Ruied_Zaurus (~Ruied_Zau@81.84.147.82) |
| 16:51.08 | offroadgeek | isn't that sweet! |
| 16:51.10 | omin0us | yeah |
| 16:51.18 | *** join/#zaurus Ruied_Zaurus (~Ruied_Zau@81.84.147.82) |
| 16:51.19 | omin0us | i could see myself using it full time |
| 16:51.25 | omin0us | the new beta rocks |
| 16:51.25 | offroadgeek | though I still can't get my wifi card to work on it... sash is looking into it |
| 16:51.28 | omin0us | really? |
| 16:51.34 | omin0us | i tested mine last night |
| 16:51.35 | omin0us | worked fine |
| 16:51.54 | offroadgeek | did you use the LANconfig utility to configure your settings? |
| 16:52.01 | omin0us | but if i use USB networking, i cannont change the IP on the Z |
| 16:52.04 | omin0us | yeah |
| 16:52.23 | omin0us | i'm going to test out PPP on it today |
| 16:52.26 | omin0us | just to make sure it works |
| 16:52.44 | omin0us | btw, have you gotten Freeciv to work? or Mplayer? |
| 16:52.46 | offroadgeek | it won't keep the settings I put in... |
| 16:52.55 | omin0us | hmm, weird |
| 16:52.59 | offroadgeek | every time I do ifconfig, the netmask and broadcast is all wrong |
| 16:53.06 | omin0us | yeah |
| 16:53.27 | omin0us | same here with USB net. I set my IP to 192.168.1.201 |
| 16:53.33 | offroadgeek | I haven't yet tried freeciv or mplayer yet |
| 16:53.34 | omin0us | but when i would do ifconfig |
| 16:53.44 | omin0us | it would set it back to 192.168.129.201 |
| 16:54.02 | omin0us | but i just used DHCP for my wifi |
| 16:54.19 | offroadgeek | for some stupid reason I don't use dhcp at home with my wifi... |
| 16:54.25 | omin0us | haven't tried a static IP |
| 16:54.39 | omin0us | well, i dont' exactly have a wireless AP, heh. |
| 16:54.47 | omin0us | but my neighbor does |
| 16:54.54 | offroadgeek | ah |
| 16:54.58 | omin0us | so i always test out my wifi stuff on his AP |
| 16:55.27 | omin0us | all i did last night was get on, to make sure it would, then direct Konquerer to Slashdot, then ZUG |
| 16:55.31 | omin0us | then got off |
| 16:55.59 | omin0us | but yeah, with FreeCiv, i can't find an executible anywhere to start the game?!? |
| 16:56.08 | omin0us | and mplayer needs libvorbisdec |
| 16:56.16 | omin0us | but that isn't in the X11 feed |
| 16:57.01 | offroadgeek | btw, how's the download rate from the zug server? |
| 16:57.07 | omin0us | awesome |
| 16:57.24 | omin0us | i was getting > 100 Kb/s when i downloaded the X11 rom .zip |
| 16:57.33 | offroadgeek | wow... sweet |
| 16:57.44 | omin0us | but i downloaded that at work |
| 16:58.00 | omin0us | at home i am capped to about 25Kb/s |
| 16:58.42 | absentia | how's the download rate from www.spy.org ? |
| 16:58.47 | omin0us | hmm, has proto released any source for the X11 rom yet? |
| 16:58.48 | absentia | I was getting 1.5MB/sec the other day... |
| 16:58.56 | absentia | proto has an x11 rom ? |
| 16:59.00 | absentia | sash has x11 rom ? |
| 16:59.13 | offroadgeek | what's on spy.org? |
| 16:59.56 | omin0us | wtf? |
| 17:00.03 | offroadgeek | ? |
| 17:00.07 | omin0us | why did i say proto |
| 17:00.11 | omin0us | i swear it typed sash |
| 17:00.15 | offroadgeek | you tell us? |
| 17:00.16 | omin0us | woah, that was weird |
| 17:00.18 | offroadgeek | ;) |
| 17:00.31 | omin0us | i didn't even notice i typed proto till just now |
| 17:00.35 | absentia | org: everything. |
| 17:00.40 | absentia | I grab all files I see... |
| 17:00.42 | offroadgeek | fucking freak! |
| 17:00.45 | offroadgeek | ;) |
| 17:00.49 | omin0us | lmao |
| 17:00.50 | absentia | I have 100Gb and i'm gonna fill it |
| 17:00.56 | offroadgeek | absentia: where? |
| 17:01.04 | absentia | most is private, because I didn't ask if I could re-publish stuff, so it's just for me. |
| 17:01.06 | omin0us | its just a bunch of keys? |
| 17:01.28 | absentia | some stuff is public, under www.spy.org/zaurus/public ... like www.spy.org/zaurus/zinfo.html and www.spy.org/zaurus/public/feed ( I copied in sash rom there for dl speed testing) |
| 17:01.42 | absentia | om: that's the home page, for now... I need to write the cgi that makes those keys work. |
| 17:02.19 | omin0us | offroadgeek: you know how to rotate the X11 rom? |
| 17:02.30 | omin0us | so i can view it in portrait sometimes as well |
| 17:02.51 | omin0us | i tried the command: xrandr -o left -s 0/480x640 |
| 17:03.03 | omin0us | but it puts the taskbar thing in the middle of the screen |
| 17:03.10 | omin0us | i mean it rotates it |
| 17:03.11 | offroadgeek | omin0us: only from the commands that enki posted on the zug |
| 17:03.27 | omin0us | but it doesn't look good with it in the middle |
| 17:03.33 | Disconnect | wow. cacko-x11 is -pretty- |
| 17:03.41 | omin0us | yes. very |
| 17:03.52 | omin0us | i would like to see alot of stuff ported |
| 17:04.06 | omin0us | hey, i wonder if Snes9x would work on it |
| 17:04.34 | omin0us | i hope this ROM takes off as a major alternative like OZ |
| 17:04.49 | omin0us | and that it will get a lot of support for apps and whatnot |
| 17:05.16 | absentia | it's not supported by a group-- though.. .it's just the cacko team (sash +???) |
| 17:05.24 | omin0us | yeah, i know |
| 17:05.37 | omin0us | but i'm hoping more people will mabey start helping out |
| 17:07.05 | omin0us | think stuff from the debian arm distro would work? |
| 17:07.22 | absentia | I have that... |
| 17:07.28 | omin0us | i mean, isn't the Xscale backwards compatible with strongarm compiled apps? |
| 17:07.51 | absentia | http://www.spy.org/zaurus/private/i/debian/ |
| 17:08.01 | absentia | I also have screenshots under www.spy.org/zaurus/screenshots |
| 17:08.06 | absentia | om: yes |
| 17:08.31 | omin0us | i mean apps from the debian arm feed. not pocket workstation |
| 17:09.50 | absentia | I've used apps from debian arm feed under zdebian |
| 17:10.03 | omin0us | lol |
| 17:10.07 | absentia | I *think* I've used them under old oz, using force depends. |
| 17:10.19 | omin0us | i mean i wonder if they'd work on sash's X11 |
| 17:10.23 | absentia | kergoth walked me through that like the first week I had my z |
| 17:10.43 | absentia | the first day I had it, I think kergoth was on it, a friend of mine and I was on the console and ssh'd in.. there wre like 5 users on the little beast. |
| 17:10.47 | absentia | I need to put my 760 up on the net... |
| 17:10.58 | absentia | om: no iea. |
| 17:10.59 | omin0us | heh |
| 17:12.14 | absentia | cs: ok, then I'm not alone. |
| 17:14.41 | omin0us | anyone have a link to the debian arm feed? |
| 17:18.32 | offroadgeek | omin0us: lardman just posted a link to the libvordisdec ipk on the zug |
| 17:20.29 | chuckr | I'm trying to get a large python module up (pydoc). One by one, it seem sto be asking me for modules, which I'm trying to satisfy. Is there any way to find out what module lives in what python ipk, or should I just download the python module directly and forget about trying to use the ipk? |
| 17:21.46 | omin0us | offroadgeek |
| 17:21.47 | omin0us | that one doesn't work |
| 17:22.01 | omin0us | it says, "corruted or not package file" |
| 17:22.10 | omin0us | no, not corrupted, but corruted |
| 17:22.11 | omin0us | lol |
| 17:23.24 | chuckr | no it just says it couldn't load a module, and gives me it's name |
| 17:23.42 | omin0us | are you using the package manager? |
| 17:23.44 | omin0us | or console? |
| 17:24.02 | chuckr | trying to use aqpkg, but it's only working on stable for some reason |
| 17:24.17 | omin0us | aqpkg? |
| 17:24.19 | *** join/#zaurus raduga (~raduga@ns.broken.net) |
| 17:24.26 | omin0us | we are talking about Sash's X11 rom |
| 17:24.38 | chuckr | I seem to have best luck when I manage downloading manually and use aqpkg only on the machine locally |
| 17:24.47 | chuckr | no oz |
| 17:24.55 | chuckr | I'm using 3.3.5 |
| 17:25.05 | omin0us | yeah, thats not what were're talking about though |
| 17:25.14 | chuckr | am I intyerrupting? |
| 17:25.16 | omin0us | read the conversation |
| 17:25.17 | omin0us | lol |
| 17:25.28 | chuckr | sorry |
| 17:25.29 | omin0us | we're talking about running mplayer in Sash's X11 rom |
| 17:25.35 | chuckr | oh sorry |
| 17:25.42 | omin0us | heh, its ok |
| 17:26.12 | chuckr | i tend to me more than a lttle interupting please ignore me |
| 17:26.22 | omin0us | lol |
| 17:26.44 | chuckr | I'm havin gso damn much fun with this, I can't wait |
| 17:26.51 | offroadgeek | omin0us: sup... i'm back |
| 17:27.07 | omin0us | offroadgeek: that libvorbisdec doesn't work |
| 17:27.18 | omin0us | its the one from the OZ packages |
| 17:27.19 | offroadgeek | not my problem... lardman posted it! |
| 17:27.21 | offroadgeek | ;) |
| 17:27.23 | omin0us | i know |
| 17:27.24 | omin0us | lol |
| 17:27.38 | omin0us | isn't the X11 rom based off of Sharp rom anyways? |
| 17:27.49 | omin0us | so there is no way that one would have worked |
| 17:27.53 | offroadgeek | I don't think so... |
| 17:28.03 | omin0us | whats it based off of? |
| 17:28.08 | omin0us | just a whole new complete rom? |
| 17:28.23 | treke | once you take qtopia off, there isnt all that much to differentiate the different roms :) |
| 17:28.26 | offroadgeek | I think it's a whole new rom |
| 17:28.37 | omin0us | wow, thats cool |
| 17:28.50 | offroadgeek | but I'm not that familiar with the underpinnings of the roms and linux for that matter |
| 17:28.53 | offroadgeek | still learning here |
| 17:28.54 | omin0us | so hmm. i wonder how i get libvorbisdec working on it |
| 17:29.04 | treke | I'm guessing it isnt sharp based since I would use gcc3 for the improved performance |
| 17:29.12 | treke | binary compatibility is no longer an issue :) |
| 17:29.28 | omin0us | ? |
| 17:29.44 | treke | omin0us: Gcc3 based images will be faster than gcc2 based images. |
| 17:29.52 | treke | xscale optimization is better under it |
| 17:30.16 | omin0us | is the X11 gcc3? |
| 17:30.18 | treke | if i isn't, I'm going to smack sash. |
| 17:30.20 | absentia | I wish zdebian was gcc3. |
| 17:30.31 | treke | absentia: Erm, it probably is. |
| 17:30.32 | absentia | I have the gcc3 on my site too... if you want to dl it ant test the speed |
| 17:30.39 | absentia | tr: k |
| 17:30.45 | omin0us | treke: how do i go about getting other packages on it then |
| 17:30.45 | absentia | I have to say, I didn't check for sure. |
| 17:30.49 | treke | absentia: Debian is gcc3 based now. Assuming zdebian isnt tracking stable. |
| 17:31.03 | omin0us | zdebian hasn't even been updated in ages |
| 17:31.08 | omin0us | its kind of a dead project |
| 17:31.16 | treke | if it is, then they are still gcc2 based. The big problem being debian doesnt optimize for pxa :p |
| 17:31.24 | omin0us | died before any of the roms were gcc3 based |
| 17:31.57 | treke | omin0us: You use apps that dont depend on gcc2 c++ libaries or are compiled for gcc3 |
| 17:32.09 | omin0us | hmm |
| 17:32.33 | treke | well you can use apps that use gcc2 c++ libraries as long as the app itself is built with gcc2 |
| 17:32.36 | absentia | zdebian, I don't think it has been recompiled in a LONG time. |
| 17:32.39 | treke | so its not likely to be an issue |
| 17:32.49 | absentia | ya |
| 17:32.57 | absentia | I read somewhere they programs for the pda are to be optimized for size |
| 17:33.04 | absentia | I disagree, they should be optimized for SPEED |
| 17:33.18 | treke | the compatibility isnt quite as simple as you can't mix and match, it's you can't always mix and match :) |
| 17:34.17 | Disconnect | absentia: depends.. with a small cache, size often -is- speed. |
| 17:34.28 | omin0us | brb, gotta reboot. i'm gonna try the libvorbis from the OZ 3.3.5 760 feed |
| 17:34.37 | omin0us | isn't 3.3.5 for 760 gcc3 based? |
| 17:35.07 | absentia | huh? |
| 17:35.19 | absentia | wouldn't optimize for speed know about the cache size and use that to its advantage? |
| 17:35.44 | absentia | I don't know enough about internals.. but I'd tend to think that for anything other than pure cpu bound apps, cache just won't matter all THAT much. |
| 17:35.58 | absentia | and who's gonna run a cpu-bound app on the z? |
| 17:36.33 | treke | omin0us: There are two 3.3.5 images. One is gcc3 one is gcc2 |
| 17:36.53 | absentia | I have not seen ANY speed improvements between the 700 and the 760 |
| 17:36.56 | absentia | or with gcc2 vs gcc3 |
| 17:40.06 | *** join/#zaurus omin0us (omin0us@216.222.87.96) |
| 17:40.24 | chuckr | have you folks happened to look at the notes that intel has releasaed on optimization of the xscale? |
| 17:40.46 | chuckr | all your speculation on cache, in light of that, is unfortunately funny |
| 17:41.40 | Disconnect | absentia: the cache/speed tradeoff is often discussed relating to optimization. eg the kernel (on x86) benches faster on size optimization for some versions (and some benches) |
| 17:42.03 | chuckr | it might be difficult for you to believe, but I can givve you the exact refernce, intel has a round-robin cache-replacement pollicy for all xscale processors |
| 17:42.13 | Disconnect | ugh. fiance is sick, gotta go take her home. bbl. |
| 17:42.24 | chuckr | cache is therefore completely useless |
| 17:42.25 | absentia | chuck: which means ? |
| 17:42.50 | chuckr | means that all the rest of the world has a least-recently used cache replacement policy, right? |
| 17:43.10 | chuckr | intel has ruined the cache on the xscale, you might as well have 0 cache in it |
| 17:43.36 | chuckr | it's in section 3 (optimization notes) of the xscale ref manual |
| 17:44.04 | chuckr | I;'ve showed it to a lot of oliks at work, its hard to credit that they would do such a thing |
| 17:44.07 | omin0us | dammit, none of those libvorbisdec work |
| 17:44.58 | chuckr | a round-robin cache replacement policy is essentially the dumbest thing you've ever hearrd of |
| 17:45.24 | chuckr | it's honestly there though, go aheaad and check me, it's not hard |
| 17:46.04 | chuckr | you want to look up the section on "optimization" |
| 17:47.08 | absentia | ok |
| 17:47.17 | absentia | then I still say, optiize for speed.. since that could be independent of cache |
| 17:47.17 | chuckr | you folkls understand why round robin can't work? |
| 17:47.24 | absentia | whereas size... doesn't really matter all that much. |
| 17:47.27 | absentia | ch: no |
| 17:48.08 | chuckr | round robin means that it doesn't matter if a single piece of code gets executed 90 percetn of hte time, it will STILL be pushed out of cache on a regular basis, |
| 17:48.48 | chuckr | the onlyh item regulating it's lifetime are, how many new pieces of code eget introduced, not how aften are they used |
| 17:49.30 | chuckr | every time a new area of code gets entered, it's regarded as a first entry, even if it's already in cache |
| 17:50.11 | chuckr | (not true, that last one is wrong) |
| 17:50.57 | absentia | ok |
| 17:51.06 | absentia | seems like they just didn't want to implement a proper caching system |
| 17:51.15 | absentia | and round robin would be trivial to implement... etc. |
| 17:51.16 | chuckr | what I mean is, a piece of code's record of useage is not considered for whethter or not it gets kept in cache, only the fact that it's the oldest one in there, so even if it's popular, it gets pushed out |
| 17:51.35 | chuckr | true the fact that';s it's trivial to implment is the single nice thing about it |
| 17:51.35 | absentia | ok |
| 17:51.45 | absentia | that's probably why they did it |
| 17:51.49 | chuckr | true |
| 17:52.04 | absentia | like: ok, we have cache.. we need to get this chip out there... screw the cache efficiency, we just should use it, though... so... round robin it is. |
| 17:52.11 | chuckr | it's also the reason that this is theonly processor available to use that completely useless thing |
| 17:52.13 | absentia | sort of like quicksort vs bubble. |
| 17:52.18 | absentia | bubble works fine for < 100 items. |
| 17:52.28 | absentia | yup |
| 17:52.38 | absentia | it was disabled nuder the sa203, right? |
| 17:52.52 | chuckr | you have to read the notes, even intel forthrightly admits that "it;'s difficult or impossible to optimize cache in this situattion" |
| 17:53.10 | chuckr | they advise useing LOTS of cache, wonder why? |
| 17:53.43 | absentia | 2ok, logged out of zug |
| 17:53.51 | absentia | lunch, and then I'll try galleon to save the u/p |
| 17:53.58 | chuckr | I don't know about the 203, my company was considering the xscale so I became an expert in it long enough to determine this |
| 17:54.06 | absentia | heheh |
| 17:54.11 | absentia | what's the other choice? |
| 17:54.26 | absentia | someone said the other day that the strongarm/xscale is a low power alpha |
| 17:54.33 | absentia | does that make sense to you ? |
| 17:54.42 | chuckr | I coldn't honestly believe it, believe they would do it, but after I validated it among a few people, I bgan to believe it myself |
| 17:55.03 | *** join/#zaurus _Psycho_ (~Bob@HSE-Montreal-ppp3472052.sympatico.ca) |
| 17:55.31 | chuckr | they are using the xscale as a core processor, managing sesveral nodal processors, it's seems to work ok like that |
| 17:56.00 | chuckr | as a pda processor, well, its cheap and lo power |
| 17:56.13 | chuckr | it's not powerful though |
| 17:56.41 | chuckr | sorry to havve to tell you that |
| 17:57.11 | chuckr | it's actually on intel's website, I could even dredge up the section o fthe manual its on my hard disk here somewhere |
| 17:57.38 | absentia | ya, I know it's not "powerful" .. but it does work. |
| 17:57.42 | absentia | what is the other choice? |
| 17:57.46 | absentia | ok, going to lunch.. back in a while |
| 17:57.46 | chuckr | true |
| 17:58.04 | chuckr | I guess I saw the commnent about cache and had to comment on it |
| 17:58.40 | chuckr | I got my python things to work, by manually doing things (non-ipk, but it works) |
| 17:59.32 | *** join/#zaurus Flyinglord^ (~qfh@ppp-62-245-210-132.mnet-online.de) |
| 18:03.28 | omin0us | how to i tar up files? |
| 18:03.44 | omin0us | tar -c file1 file2 ...? |
| 18:03.49 | omin0us | like that? |
| 18:06.17 | drewp | omin0us: no! don't do that |
| 18:06.45 | drewp | omin0us: if you got the options right (with an 'f' in there), you'd kill file1, which would make you sad |
| 18:07.04 | drewp | omin0us: try something like "tar cvf outputfile.tar file1 file2" |
| 18:07.15 | drewp | or "tar cvzf outfile.tgz file1 file2" if you want compression too |
| 18:07.36 | drewp | the first name is what gets written to, and tar will not warn you if you're about to wipe one of the files you were trying to archive |
| 18:14.55 | chuckr | I just got back and I know exactly how to tar, ask me |
| 18:15.08 | *** join/#zaurus qfh^ (~qfh@ppp-62-245-210-132.mnet-online.de) |
| 18:15.53 | chuckr | you still need to know? |
| 18:16.05 | omin0us | no |
| 18:16.06 | omin0us | i got it |
| 18:16.15 | chuckr | oh wanted to be heplful |
| 18:16.17 | omin0us | tar -cvf file.tar file1 file2 |
| 18:16.18 | omin0us | heh |
| 18:16.20 | omin0us | well |
| 18:16.26 | chuckr | can do more, you know |
| 18:16.32 | kergoth | ibot: friday |
| 18:16.33 | | Friday sucks, because it should be the weekend, but you're stuck working anyway. |
| 18:16.42 | chuckr | if you wanted a compressed tar, you can do that directly with gnu tar |
| 18:16.47 | omin0us | well |
| 18:17.05 | omin0us | i just needed to convert an AR based .ipk to a tar.gz based .ipk |
| 18:17.08 | omin0us | but i got it |
| 18:17.15 | chuckr | okey |
| 18:17.22 | treke | kergoth: http://handhelds.org/~mallum/paneltitle.png |
| 18:17.39 | omin0us | if you want to be helpful. help me get libvorbisdec installed on X11 rom for c760 |
| 18:17.54 | omin0us | thats what i'm trying to do |
| 18:19.16 | treke | kergoth: matchbox is getting really slick looking |
| 18:20.26 | omin0us | um, is ZUG down for everyone? |
| 18:20.54 | omin0us | i keep getting a page that says, session initializtion failed |
| 18:21.19 | kergoth | treke: indeed, that looks nice |
| 18:21.45 | Taim | omin0us: trying to contact offroadgeek. |
| 18:21.59 | omin0us | taim: is it doing that for you too? |
| 18:23.09 | *** join/#zaurus MEME|work (~MEME|work@hnllhi1-ar7-4-7-221-000.hnllhi1.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 18:23.22 | treke | generally error messages like that are server side problems :) |
| 18:23.29 | Taim | omin0us: Yes, this is a known issue. Offroadgeek has been working to correct this. I really don't know what the problem is or how to correct at this time, though :/ |
| 18:24.08 | treke | kergoth: been working with mallum to sort out the hardware rotation for X, and hes been working on X in oe |
| 18:24.25 | treke | hopefully we can make nice happy X images soon :) |
| 18:26.53 | *** join/#zaurus fluxx (fluxx@c-a37271d5.018-119-736b651.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 18:27.12 | absentia | re |
| 18:29.03 | *** join/#zaurus conundrum (~neo11088@ip68-0-228-130.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 18:29.14 | treke | time to install sash's rom. |
| 18:29.53 | omin0us | what is the codename for the 760 |
| 18:29.56 | treke | I've got some 3.3.2ish release on right it right now |
| 18:29.57 | treke | omin0us: husky. |
| 18:30.14 | omin0us | shepherd? |
| 18:30.14 | omin0us | ok |
| 18:30.14 | treke | husky |
| 18:30.14 | omin0us | thanks |
| 18:30.59 | omin0us | dammit |
| 18:31.22 | omin0us | where can i get libgcc_s? |
| 18:31.46 | *** join/#zaurus offroadg1ek (~offroadge@dsl092-250-033.sfo4.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 18:31.52 | treke | btw, if you are using the x11 images, minimo is a rocking web browser |
| 18:31.54 | treke | http://handhelds.org/~mallum/minimo/ |
| 18:33.42 | absentia | zug session failed for me too |
| 18:33.42 | absentia | hmm. carolers downstairs... the winter garden does look nice, though. |
| 18:33.42 | absentia | mmm |
| 18:33.42 | absentia | great lunch |
| 18:33.45 | treke | I have a sarchastic answer |
| 18:33.49 | treke | sarcastic |
| 18:34.14 | conundrum | Alright treke, thanks I always need those. |
| 18:34.19 | conundrum | What is X11? |
| 18:34.39 | treke | X Windowing System Version 11 |
| 18:35.01 | treke | er X Window System Version 11, the standard windowing system on unixes. |
| 18:35.03 | *** join/#zaurus leffe (~leffe@as5-6-1.h.s.bonet.se) |
| 18:35.26 | conundrum | Ahhh, can't run on 5500 can it |
| 18:35.26 | conundrum | ? |
| 18:35.37 | kergoth | of course it can |
| 18:35.38 | treke | sure you can run it on a 5500 |
| 18:35.59 | treke | Just not many people do. |
| 18:36.09 | omin0us | is there a libgcc_s compiled for the zaurus? |
| 18:37.07 | omin0us | even a yes or no would be nice... |
| 18:37.09 | conundrum | Alright, thanks kergoth and treke. |
| 18:37.27 | conundrum | omin0us: Their lives don't revolve around IRC, give them a minute. |
| 18:38.00 | omin0us | conundrum: i know, but i already asked before and recieved no answer, this is the second time |
| 18:38.08 | kergoth | omin0us: sounds like you're trying to use a gcc3 app on a gcc2 rom. good luck. |
| 18:38.11 | absentia | ever seen ... what's that thing.. dillo? |
| 18:38.14 | omin0us | kergoth |
| 18:38.15 | omin0us | no |
| 18:38.25 | kergoth | then why dont you have libgcc_s? |
| 18:38.27 | treke | absentia: minimo is way better than dillo :) |
| 18:38.28 | omin0us | i'm using X11 rom on 760 |
| 18:38.30 | kergoth | the gcc2 chains use a static libgcc, not shared. |
| 18:38.35 | kergoth | and the gcc3 roms include it. |
| 18:38.39 | kergoth | heh |
| 18:38.45 | omin0us | i'm pretty sure that it is gcc3 rom |
| 18:38.52 | omin0us | could be wrong though |
| 18:38.55 | kergoth | omin0us: ls -l /lib/libc-* |
| 18:39.24 | omin0us | # ls -l /lib/libc-* |
| 18:39.24 | omin0us | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1152468 May 20 2002 /lib/libc-2.2.2.so |
| 18:39.24 | omin0us | # |
| 18:39.27 | kergoth | yep |
| 18:39.33 | omin0us | yep what |
| 18:39.38 | omin0us | it is a gcc2 rom |
| 18:39.42 | kergoth | gcc3 roms include glibc 2.3.x |
| 18:39.45 | treke | yup. |
| 18:39.45 | omin0us | oh |
| 18:39.55 | omin0us | hmm, i wonder why Sash didn't use gcc3 |
| 18:39.56 | kergoth | yes, it is. and your gcc3 app you're trying to install will need versioned symbols from glibc 2.3.x |
| 18:39.56 | treke | why on earth did sash do that. |
| 18:40.01 | kergoth | good question |
| 18:40.07 | kergoth | for x11, who cares, no reason to use 2 |
| 18:40.27 | omin0us | i know, but for apps that aren't using x11 |
| 18:40.36 | omin0us | eg: mplayer |
| 18:40.46 | kergoth | the point is, if it doesnt use qte/qtopia, you dont need to stick with gcc2 for compat |
| 18:41.01 | omin0us | what i don't get is why he would include a gcc3 mplayer in his feed for x11 if his rom is gcc2 |
| 18:41.10 | kergoth | heh, that is odd |
| 18:41.10 | omin0us | oh, i see |
| 18:41.46 | omin0us | kergoth: do you have a copy of the libgcc_s binary you could send me? |
| 18:41.50 | kergoth | it wont work |
| 18:41.52 | kergoth | i just told you |
| 18:42.00 | kergoth | itll need 2.3.x versioned symbols from libc as well |
| 18:42.02 | omin0us | and then i can just put it on and install by hand |
| 18:42.03 | omin0us | oh |
| 18:42.25 | kergoth | anyway, libgcc1 ipk is in our gcc3 image feeds |
| 18:42.30 | kergoth | e.g. the c7x0 3.3.5 |
| 18:42.48 | omin0us | ok... what will i do with that |
| 18:42.58 | kergoth | .. |
| 18:43.05 | omin0us | should i just use the mplayer binaries from the OZ feed for 760 |
| 18:43.11 | kergoth | i just told you it probably wont work anyway, but if you want to try it, go ahead |
| 18:43.16 | omin0us | oh |
| 18:43.18 | kergoth | no, the oz feeds for c7x0 are gcc3. |
| 18:43.22 | kergoth | which is why t hey have libgcc_s |
| 18:43.29 | omin0us | oh |
| 18:43.32 | kergoth | mplayer from them will fail in the same way the one you're trying to use now will |
| 18:43.44 | kergoth | the 3.3.5 release for collie, however, is gcc2, so if mplayer is there, grab that |
| 18:44.12 | omin0us | why would i use libgcc1 when i need libgcc_s? im confused. i understand why libgcc_s won't work though |
| 18:44.18 | kergoth | .. |
| 18:44.22 | kergoth | libgcc1 is the PACKAGE NAME |
| 18:44.27 | kergoth | libgcc_s is the FILENAME |
| 18:44.37 | kergoth | heh |
| 18:44.44 | omin0us | ok, i see |
| 18:45.16 | absentia | kergoth: can't you chroot run those? |
| 18:45.40 | kergoth | yep, would work fine |
| 18:45.49 | kergoth | could even do some LD_PRELOAD stuff to avoid even that |
| 18:45.53 | kergoth | but i doubt he wants the hassle |
| 18:47.11 | *** join/#zaurus omin0us (omin0us@216.222.87.96) |
| 18:47.18 | conundrum | kergoth: Think sharp will give you a 6000 to dev on? |
| 18:47.54 | kergoth | i doubt it, i dont exactly have many contacts there anymore |
| 18:48.28 | conundrum | That sucks, that thing looks like it will be better than the 7XXs. |
| 18:48.35 | conundrum | ibot: sl-6000 |
| 18:48.36 | | rumour has it, sl-6000 is the latest sl model slated for release in january http://www.zaurususergroup.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=77&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 |
| 18:49.12 | kergoth | its feature rich, but its also larger than i'd like, and i dont much like the formfactor |
| 18:49.18 | kergoth | would be cool to play with, but i wouldnt buy one |
| 18:49.19 | kergoth | heheh |
| 18:49.22 | *** join/#zaurus AndersB (~anders@15.80-202-52.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:49.56 | conundrum | Heh. |
| 18:50.26 | conundrum | I like my 5500, but I don't like how my hands are so close together when I use the keyboard. Reminds me of my old gameboy. |
| 18:50.29 | kergoth | course sharp'll take like 3 months to release kernel sources anyway |
| 18:50.33 | kergoth | bastards |
| 18:50.41 | conundrum | lol |
| 18:50.56 | kergoth | their QA process is slow as hell |
| 18:51.10 | conundrum | They don't want guys like you to write better OSs too soon. |
| 18:51.37 | kergoth | its funny, they always say they're cleaning up the code and stuff |
| 18:51.44 | kergoth | but when it releases, its still crap |
| 18:51.52 | kergoth | guess i'm glad i didnt see it before they cleaned it up.. |
| 18:52.39 | treke | hehe |
| 18:53.15 | conundrum | lol |
| 18:55.45 | Disconnect | "here's the bins, you'll get sources when we clean them up" ..? huh? ;) |
| 18:57.37 | treke | gotta remove stuff like the SD driver :) |
| 19:00.29 | *** join/#zaurus brokenchaos (~justin@h24-70-245-123.ok.shawcable.net) |
| 19:03.44 | *** join/#zaurus gregarican (~gkujawa@w066.z064220090.cmh-oh.dsl.cnc.net) |
| 19:05.50 | gregarican | Hello all. |
| 19:06.25 | absentia | where is mallum's image? |
| 19:10.42 | absentia | http://handhelds.org/~mallum/xpkgs/c7x0-utils/chkhinge.c |
| 19:11.35 | absentia | ok, I found it |
| 19:13.05 | absentia | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:13.08 | absentia | nice... |
| 19:14.45 | absentia | kergoth, did I see/hear that you're moving oz stuffs from sf to hh.org? |
| 19:14.53 | omin0us | well, i got mplayer working on the X11 rom for 760 |
| 19:15.08 | absentia | nice. |
| 19:15.26 | omin0us | it kind of sucks though, cause i just took mplayer .91rc1 and had to hand install and link everything |
| 19:15.44 | omin0us | and it doesn't open it in a console window either |
| 19:15.56 | omin0us | it just plays it in the upper lefthand corner |
| 19:16.29 | omin0us | and i beleve mplayer for z writes directly to the framebuffer, so it overwrites crap on the screen |
| 19:16.41 | absentia | eh? |
| 19:17.14 | treke | absentia: http://handhelds.org/~mallum/xpkgs/husky/ |
| 19:17.24 | absentia | treke: yup, already grabbed it |
| 19:17.30 | absentia | it's in my private section. |
| 19:17.38 | absentia | although I did put his hinge.c in public/src |
| 19:18.04 | treke | more cryptic |
| 19:18.36 | absentia | where is yours ? |
| 19:18.55 | treke | absentia: They do the same thing, his gives you useful debug info :) |
| 19:19.18 | absentia | ya, but I'm looking for examples of code... small code. |
| 19:19.20 | absentia | for the Z |
| 19:19.24 | absentia | mostly pyqt, which seems there is none. |
| 19:19.35 | absentia | I found some image viewer.... in pyqt.. but it doesn't run outside on my qt3! |
| 19:19.38 | treke | absentia: take all the printf and defines out of his and you have mine :) |
| 19:19.44 | absentia | oh |
| 19:20.09 | absentia | I'll probably modify it to do return codes.. and output with -v ... so you can call it from scripts |
| 19:20.41 | treke | It returns the state of the screen |
| 19:20.44 | absentia | pyqt can't run in portrait mode under sash 1.17 rom! |
| 19:20.45 | absentia | hate that. |
| 19:20.57 | omin0us | i wonder what the hell is wrong with the ZUG |
| 19:21.28 | chuckr | I need to undestand something, can I interrupt? |
| 19:21.42 | absentia | any time |
| 19:21.48 | absentia | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:22.04 | chuckr | I saw a siste, a www.hentes.net, which has a image labeled 1.0.2 |
| 19:22.20 | *** join/#zaurus gerrynjr (~gerrynjr@h00a0cc36b102.ne.client2.attbi.com) |
| 19:22.23 | chuckr | how does that compare, image-wise, with what I'm running n ow on 3.3.5? |
| 19:22.41 | gregarican | What is up with the Sharp Developer website? Did it fly the coop with Spencer? |
| 19:23.05 | Disconnect | gregarican: in theory it'll be back in the next few days |
| 19:23.06 | gerrynjr | ZUG down |
| 19:23.07 | omin0us | suposedly it will be back up on Monday |
| 19:23.13 | chuckr | I got the wiste name wrong, let me try it again with a cut'n'paste |
| 19:23.16 | omin0us | yeah ZUG is down too |
| 19:23.22 | chuckr | site name wrong, |
| 19:23.22 | omin0us | :( |
| 19:23.27 | omin0us | now i have now Z forum to go to |
| 19:23.34 | gerrynjr | same here |
| 19:23.44 | omin0us | well, there is still externe |
| 19:23.47 | gerrynjr | some community :-D |
| 19:23.52 | chuckr | here it is: http://www.hentges.net/openzaurus/index.html |
| 19:23.56 | omin0us | but i never post there much |
| 19:24.09 | gregarican | Weird. How could things be down so long nowadays? Are they physically relocating everything and transporting in an Astro van :-D |
| 19:24.42 | omin0us | yeah: well, ZUG and Externe have become the main forums now. |
| 19:25.07 | omin0us | i like ZUG because it has a subforum specificaly for Sash's X11 rom, which is what i use right now |
| 19:25.17 | absentia | back in some form.... |
| 19:25.26 | chuckr | I just wanted to know if the images on that site were maybe from a more current track? |
| 19:25.41 | chuckr | or are they really old? |
| 19:25.45 | absentia | I figure they're probably relocating it |
| 19:25.51 | absentia | perhaps even giving it the once over. |
| 19:26.07 | absentia | or, possibly.... they're actually working on it... to improve it (highly doubtful) |
| 19:28.34 | omin0us | how the hell do i run FreeCiv? |
| 19:28.48 | omin0us | i installed it and can't find the binary to run it anywhere? |
| 19:29.52 | chuckr | could someone please look at this site aand explain it to me? the version he's got? http://www.hentges.net/openzaurus/index.html |
| 19:32.18 | absentia | does freeciv actually DO anything? |
| 19:32.33 | absentia | chuck: why run that and not oz 3.3.5 ? |
| 19:33.04 | absentia | dis? |
| 19:33.20 | omin0us | it should |
| 19:33.38 | omin0us | this isn't the Z port i don't belive, but actually the game for X |
| 19:34.52 | chuckr | I don't know, I don't know what it is so I can't answer that, is 1.0.2 based on a newer unreleased version of opie? I might be intersted in that, wouldn't you? |
| 19:36.26 | kergoth | oz 3.3.5 includes opie 1.0.3. |
| 19:39.16 | gregarican | It's funny that some of y'all mention that Sharp *might* be upgrading their Developer Website. When I called their support folks to see what was up they put me on hold, came back on the line, and told me the site is either temporarily or permanently down. I guess the right hand doesn't know what the left one's doing in their case... |
| 19:40.04 | absentia | disconnect? |
| 19:40.33 | fusion94 | the site should be back online by monday |
| 19:40.40 | absentia | well, the site is not available now |
| 19:40.50 | absentia | fear was originally that it was just downed permanently |
| 19:40.51 | fusion94 | and of course their support folks have no clue..... |
| 19:40.59 | fusion94 | they aren't even aware of the site |
| 19:41.00 | chuckr | thanks, kergoth, that's just what I wanted to know |
| 19:41.21 | absentia | the latest word is that some people who seem to know nkow it was ... say that it is... only down... temporarily, but... this doesn't clarify if the same thing that was there BEFORE will come BACK... |
| 19:41.21 | Disconnect | absentia: ..? |
| 19:41.55 | *** join/#zaurus _jh_ (~user@209.137.229.132) |
| 19:42.14 | fusion94 | um it will |
| 19:42.17 | fusion94 | truest me |
| 19:42.19 | fusion94 | trust me |
| 19:42.25 | absentia | trust you what ? |
| 19:42.47 | fusion94 | that the same site should be back online on monday |
| 19:42.57 | absentia | oh, how do you know this ? |
| 19:44.08 | fusion94 | um... |
| 19:44.15 | fusion94 | cause i was the admin |
| 19:44.22 | fusion94 | that good enough for you ? |
| 19:44.39 | gregarican | If it is back online, great, it's just funny that they couldn't even redirect the URL to a 'please stand by, we're having technical difficulties' page. Or have the myzaurus.com site mention this. |
| 19:45.01 | omin0us | yeah |
| 19:45.37 | fusion94 | i dont handle the myzaurus.com crap.... |
| 19:45.38 | omin0us | fusion94: i hope when its back up there will be an explanation of why it went down without any notice what so ever |
| 19:45.47 | fusion94 | can't say that there will be |
| 19:46.09 | omin0us | well, can you give us a reason here? |
| 19:46.12 | absentia | yes |
| 19:46.16 | absentia | they can't talk about the new site |
| 19:46.19 | Disconnect | wow. I always knew sharp was a very professional company, but this takes professionalism to a whole new level. |
| 19:46.26 | absentia | but they won't even confirm what was there before will be makde available |
| 19:46.28 | absentia | on the new site |
| 19:46.56 | omin0us | they can't talk about why the site when down and is coming back up? |
| 19:47.05 | treke | how hard is it to just accept that fusion94 may be telling the truth? |
| 19:47.05 | omin0us | its just a forum and some developer's help files |
| 19:47.10 | absentia | it's not |
| 19:47.13 | omin0us | and the downloads from the comunity |
| 19:47.15 | gregarican | No doubt. Even Microsoft has some transition steps in place before overhauling site content. |
| 19:47.22 | absentia | but I didn't have a reason to take his word over djks... |
| 19:47.27 | absentia | but I take BOTH of them over anything I hear from sharp. |
| 19:47.36 | fusion94 | absentia: because NO ONE at sharp has a fucking clue |
| 19:47.40 | absentia | exactly. |
| 19:47.42 | omin0us | lol |
| 19:47.52 | fusion94 | i'm the one that had to tell them that the site was actually down |
| 19:47.56 | fusion94 | they had no idea |
| 19:48.01 | omin0us | fushion94, are you spencer? i thought spencer was the admin of zaurus.com? |
| 19:48.15 | gregarican | Maybe they forgot to pay their hosting bill :-) |
| 19:48.21 | absentia | whatever the plan is... apparently sharp is hearing about it at some level... but if nothing else, it has been a wake up call to the community. |
| 19:48.34 | omin0us | yeah |
| 19:48.36 | fusion94 | as it should have been |
| 19:48.36 | treke | gregarican: Spencer was in marketing, he wasnt a tech |
| 19:48.40 | treke | er omin0us |
| 19:48.43 | fusion94 | gregarican: perhaps :) |
| 19:48.56 | fusion94 | spencer while a nice enough guy was a marketing tool....nothing more |
| 19:49.46 | omin0us | i'm hoping that mabey as a result of this we will make ourselves less dependant on sharp |
| 19:49.47 | absentia | greg: whatever the cause, they should have the decency.. any tech working on it... to redirect the ip via a low ttl dns to a temp page. |
| 19:49.51 | absentia | it would stop a lot of fear. |
| 19:49.52 | omin0us | and break away more |
| 19:50.30 | omin0us | well, i'm off to work. Good to hear for sure that the site will be back on monday |
| 19:50.35 | omin0us | see you guys later |
| 19:51.01 | fusion94 | SHOULD be back :) |
| 19:51.53 | omin0us | heh, well as long as its sometime soon. thats fine |
| 19:51.54 | absentia | btw; what is spacetown ? |
| 19:51.57 | gregarican | All I can say is that it's a good thing that the Zaurus has a strong user/developer community. If it didn't then the terrain would certainly be a lot different. |
| 19:52.08 | omin0us | as I'm now starting to vear more towards ZUG |
| 19:52.10 | omin0us | anyways |
| 19:52.11 | omin0us | bye |
| 19:54.13 | raduga | hrm. |
| 20:08.19 | *** part/#zaurus _jh_ (~user@209.137.229.132) |
| 20:10.17 | *** join/#zaurus n_flag (~w00t@webcache.crd.ge.com) |
| 20:14.43 | weez|backtowork | absentia: spacetown is sharp zaurus portal/isp |
| 20:15.16 | absentia | is there software there? |
| 20:15.25 | absentia | I've only hit the home page and not sniffed deeper. |
| 20:15.38 | weez|backtowork | absentia: it has sharp software you can purchase.. it has links to free software with ratings.. |
| 20:15.44 | weez|backtowork | ebooks you can purchase |
| 20:15.46 | weez|backtowork | uhm.. |
| 20:15.57 | weez|backtowork | you can dl ROM updates... |
| 20:16.03 | weez|backtowork | its pretty commercial |
| 20:16.24 | absentia | ah. |
| 20:16.32 | weez|backtowork | for the older zauruses I had it was absolutely essential |
| 20:16.38 | absentia | oh |
| 20:16.50 | weez|backtowork | with the linux community tho, i hardly go there anymore.. |
| 20:17.14 | weez|backtowork | i guess i should say with the strength of the current linux/zaurus community.. |
| 20:17.24 | absentia | ya |
| 20:17.28 | absentia | that was my hope. |
| 20:17.46 | weez|backtowork | i am actually on my 5th zaurus |
| 20:17.46 | absentia | I've seen a lot of pages where people dig up crap buried neck deep in japanese... for pretty intersting things. |
| 20:18.41 | weez|backtowork | there was always a pretty good japanese zaurus community before.. but it has really gotten a lot better with the linux version |
| 20:18.41 | absentia | really |
| 20:18.46 | absentia | which ones have you had ? |
| 20:18.50 | absentia | I just have c700 & c760 |
| 20:18.52 | absentia | 2 |
| 20:19.11 | absentia | ya, I don't nkow who's better with linux -- .jp or .eu (collective) |
| 20:19.22 | *** join/#zaurus edwardam (~edwardam@12-218-106-230.client.mchsi.com) |
| 20:19.35 | edwardam | Is there a new Zaurus ROM today? |
| 20:19.45 | weez|backtowork | power zaurus 801C, icruise (has an 800x600 screen!), and an MI-E1 (which looks like 5000/5500 but ransharps crappy os) |
| 20:19.57 | weez|backtowork | new zaurus ROM? |
| 20:20.04 | *** join/#zaurus poo (~langfors@h00105a206319.ne.client2.attbi.com) |
| 20:20.17 | edwardam | dunno ... based on the tkc mailing list it looks like there may be. |
| 20:20.52 | weez|backtowork | the icruise could be really great if it had a fully native linux running on it.. |
| 20:20.58 | edwardam | quote: "Great news that the new ROM is ready, very frustrating that shenanigans on the community site delays us from having it." |
| 20:21.10 | edwardam | perhaps its a TKC ROM |
| 20:21.19 | weez|backtowork | for what model? |
| 20:21.26 | weez|backtowork | 5xxx or c7xxx? |
| 20:21.42 | edwardam | dunno ... no other information ... that's why I was asking in here. Perhaps someone else heard about this 'new rom' |
| 20:22.04 | weez|backtowork | i havent heard.. |
| 20:22.12 | absentia | ed: ya, proto wants the "sharp" shield to distribute |
| 20:22.19 | absentia | due to qtopia, and hancom... I believe. |
| 20:22.31 | absentia | I got off the tkc mailing list |
| 20:22.34 | absentia | too much bitching. |
| 20:22.47 | absentia | sash out develops proto anyway. |
| 20:23.14 | edwardam | sash ? |
| 20:23.23 | treke | proto seems pretty competent |
| 20:23.56 | edwardam | well as someone who worked on a handheld distro at one point ... I know there is a lot of crap to deal with. :-) |
| 20:24.18 | edwardam | who is sash? |
| 20:24.49 | treke | sash definitly has more ambitious goals though :) |
| 20:24.56 | treke | edwardam: He does quite a bit of c7x0 work |
| 20:25.15 | *** join/#zaurus escobarf (~pedro@22.Red-80-35-80.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:25.21 | kergoth | heh, we need to convince proto and sash to work with us. |
| 20:25.27 | kergoth | this pointless fracturing helps no one |
| 20:25.38 | edwardam | treke: Ahh ... that's why ... I own a 5600 and a 5000 ... not any of the c7x0's |
| 20:25.38 | weez|backtowork | absentia: here is a page with pix of the icruise.. http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-PaloAlto/1272/icruise/clubicruise.htm |
| 20:25.44 | kergoth | ah well |
| 20:28.08 | absentia | treke: I know he is... I'm just saying, sash seems to be on jolt, speed, coke and have 4 arms. |
| 20:29.23 | absentia | man bulky as hell |
| 20:29.28 | absentia | I had a trs80 model I pocket computer |
| 20:29.31 | absentia | but it was stolen recently |
| 20:29.37 | absentia | so that was my last pocket cmputer |
| 20:29.39 | absentia | I used in highschool. |
| 20:29.40 | absentia | :-> |
| 20:29.56 | absentia | so I went trs80-modelI-pocketpc --> c700 |
| 20:30.01 | absentia | heheh.. quite a jump. |
| 20:30.11 | absentia | kergoth: agreed. |
| 20:30.21 | absentia | I don't know why proto is doing a sharp-like rom |
| 20:30.32 | absentia | if sash and proto put their efforts into oz, sheeeeit.... |
| 20:30.44 | absentia | sharp might as well just make the devices and not put an OS on'm |
| 20:30.49 | kergoth | kinda silly. i mean, if we use our buildsystem you can do whatever you want to it.. go read only root, read write, whatever, and share the same sources |
| 20:30.57 | absentia | people don't have unlimited time... |
| 20:31.13 | absentia | fracturing just helps exasperate (sp?) that. |
| 20:31.18 | kergoth | indeed |
| 20:31.45 | absentia | I mean, look at me... if I ever get the oe buildsystem up |
| 20:32.02 | absentia | I'll probably just spend most of my time pulling updates, compiling, and testing... I'm not sure i'd actually be able to develop anything. |
| 20:32.25 | absentia | I can make little one line checks.. and fixes... but time is so critical. |
| 20:32.50 | absentia | I can code python at work... because I can get paid to learn python.. and program stuff.. and like iraq -- it will have dual use. :-) |
| 20:33.29 | kergoth | thatd be helpful. we could really use people to either hammer out compile bugs or even just dedicate some time to testing our release candidates before a release.. |
| 20:33.36 | kergoth | its hard to iron out bugs in the release process without people |
| 20:34.57 | absentia | well, remember before I didn't ahve a machine... faster enough? 500mhz virtual pc on a work laptop.. was my best machine. now I have a 1.8ghz celeron... not the best, but much better than my 500 mhz celeron. |
| 20:35.13 | absentia | so, I hope this weekend to get to it, for the first time... it's redhat 7.2, though... hopefully that won't matter. |
| 20:35.25 | edwardam | absentia, python? build system? |
| 20:35.33 | absentia | oe .. |
| 20:35.38 | absentia | I didn't get to learn the old oz buildroot... |
| 20:35.48 | absentia | but I'm hoping that the new oe will be long term stable. |
| 20:36.15 | absentia | kergoth: should I get gcc 3.x for the 7.2 system, it has 2.96 on it now.. and build gcc 3.x and then build it again WITH gcc 3.x? |
| 20:36.29 | absentia | or does the oe build system have its own compiler? |
| 20:36.34 | kergoth | you should be fine using a 296 x86 and a 3.x cross |
| 20:36.41 | edwardam | absentia, so the new build system is written in python ? |
| 20:36.45 | kergoth | oe can build a chain |
| 20:36.52 | kergoth | but there are still a few kinks with it |
| 20:37.55 | *** join/#zaurus qfh^ (~qfh@pD9E8A244.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:38.08 | kergoth | speaking of which, i'll upload a cross-3.3.2.tar.bz2 to our toolchains area shortly |
| 20:39.05 | kergoth | edwardam: yes, its based on gentoo's buildsystem, but is happy with crosscompiling |
| 20:39.28 | edwardam | kergoth, cool. I think I'll have to check it out. |
| 20:39.40 | edwardam | Anyone using it on Fedora ? |
| 20:39.43 | kergoth | treke.net/~bk/ for snapshots, or openembedded.bkbits.net for the bk repositories |
| 20:39.44 | absentia | ed: no idea.. but I can use python/pyqt on the z... |
| 20:39.53 | kergoth | the 'oe' repository is the build tools themselves |
| 20:40.03 | kergoth | the 'packages' repository is package metadata.. .oe files, similar to .ebuilds |
| 20:40.20 | absentia | and it's another excuse to learn better python. I still think in java/perl.... python is my combination of both of those. |
| 20:40.28 | edwardam | absentia, cool. I'm a gtk fan myself, but qt is the only toolkit available really on a stock Z. |
| 20:40.45 | absentia | I hink ther's pykde or something |
| 20:40.55 | edwardam | absentia, ouch ... sorry to hear that (you thinking in java/perl) :-) |
| 20:41.31 | absentia | I want to try to think in language agnostic.... patterns, but that seems to piss off others... |
| 20:41.46 | absentia | I think it affects my english, too. |
| 20:42.00 | absentia | do you want to go to X or Y? ... yes. |
| 20:43.05 | absentia | people say ... GPL makes things "free like speech" not "free like beer" ... and I have absolutely *no* clue what that's supposed to mean. |
| 20:45.48 | edwardam | absentia, meaning freedom of speech like we are supposed to have in america. Freedom to choose. Freedom to read. Freedom to say what we want. |
| 20:45.51 | edwardam | absentia, vs. |
| 20:46.17 | edwardam | absentia, Free product. Free beer. i.e. something at no cost. |
| 20:46.23 | kergoth | GPL focuses on community freedom, not individual freedom. it limits individual freedom of the developer using the code. |
| 20:46.26 | kergoth | heh |
| 20:46.28 | absentia | ah |
| 20:46.41 | absentia | philosophy, not economic... |
| 20:46.43 | absentia | thanks! |
| 20:48.08 | edwardam | kergoth, I don't think it limits the freedom of the developer of the code, but of people wishing to develop additional code that extends the original to their advantage without giving back to the community |
| 20:48.26 | conundrum | Where's W8TVI been lately? |
| 20:48.28 | edwardam | absentia, the GPL is all about philosophy. |
| 20:48.48 | frobnoid | it limits the developer once its been GPL-ed just like it limits the "add on" developers |
| 20:49.07 | kergoth | frobnoid: indeed |
| 20:49.25 | edwardam | frobnoid, how so. As the original developer it your work. You can re-release it under a different license if you want |
| 20:49.30 | kergoth | well, sort of. if you own the copyright to all aspects, you're still free to release it under another license |
| 20:49.31 | edwardam | s/it/its/ |
| 20:49.56 | kergoth | heh, yeah that |
| 20:50.17 | kergoth | edwardam: you'll note i didnt say *which* individual's freedom it limits, only that it limits individual freedoms |
| 20:50.27 | edwardam | true |
| 20:50.31 | frobnoid | fair enough, once anyone else extends it, then you've lost that unique power over the code... |
| 20:50.47 | absentia | no true |
| 20:50.54 | absentia | you've lost the control over only that BRANCH |
| 20:51.04 | edwardam | frobnoid, unless they also agree to the license change. |
| 20:51.05 | absentia | you cant' retroactively claim rights (ala SCO) |
| 20:51.06 | frobnoid | yes. thats what I meant... |
| 20:51.21 | edwardam | also what absentia said. :-) |
| 20:51.29 | absentia | can can clai new license and rights on a new branch. |
| 20:51.42 | absentia | which, in my mind, is perfectly ok. |
| 20:52.09 | edwardam | plus I'd rather give up the freedoms that the GPL makes me give up in exchange for potential future gain at no, or near zero cost. |
| 20:52.45 | kergoth | edwardam: yes. most do. I dont argue that it lacks benefit, only that it *does* limit freedom to a degree, despite all the religious spouting about freedom |
| 20:53.08 | frobnoid | kergoth: thats probably why they came up with the catchy beer/speech motto. |
| 20:53.09 | edwardam | kergoth, true. |
| 20:53.24 | absentia | kergoth: agreed. |
| 20:54.13 | absentia | I 100% don't agree with ... if I *use* one thing of gpl, I must make my project gpl |
| 20:54.45 | absentia | that is, if components A, B and D are GPL.. and mine is C ... and mine is 100% separate (even though it ties into APIs)... I dont think I should have to make it GPL |
| 20:54.58 | absentia | if I take B and... say "extend" it to make C, then I agree it should be GPL. |
| 20:55.31 | frobnoid | thats why they made the LGPL. A fair numebr of "toolkit" type apps are LGPL for that reason |
| 20:55.34 | absentia | I get the impression that some people are saying that even the first example (ie: separate C)... but be GPL... (nvidia drivers?) .... |
| 20:55.39 | absentia | ah, ok |
| 20:55.45 | kergoth | I consider BSD to be far more "free" than GPL. it doesnt arbitrarily limit the freedom of anyone, even the corporation trying to use it in their closed product. whether thats *good* is something else entirely, and it doesnt *protect* the original developers, but it is -free-. |
| 20:55.46 | absentia | I have to admint, I don't know the lgplg... |
| 20:55.49 | kergoth | heh |
| 20:55.52 | absentia | although I did read the entire gpl a few times, etc. |
| 20:56.08 | absentia | doesn't eh BSd just say that the source of the original must be supplied? |
| 20:56.38 | treke | nope |
| 20:56.45 | absentia | (and that copyright and license document/info must be included and not modified or removed) |
| 20:56.49 | frobnoid | LPGL is the "lesser GPL". As I understand it, the short version is, if you link against it, you don't have to be GPL-ed. If you extend it, then you're effectively GPLed |
| 20:56.50 | treke | Some bsd licenses have an advertising clause |
| 20:56.54 | absentia | ah |
| 20:57.00 | absentia | what's the advertising clause ? |
| 20:57.18 | treke | absentia: You have to include a certain copyright statement in any of your documentation |
| 20:57.25 | absentia | ok, then I like the lgpl.. how does the *bsd differ from lgpl ? |
| 20:57.30 | kergoth | frobnoid: you have to allow them to be able to replace it, so an additional requirement is that if you release a closed source app that links against it statically, you need to provide a shared version as well |
| 20:57.35 | kergoth | (lgpl) |
| 20:57.37 | absentia | treke: yes, that's my second sentence above... |
| 20:57.55 | treke | absentia: The lgp requires you provide source for the lgpl'd library |
| 20:57.56 | absentia | kergoth: ah.... interesting. |
| 20:57.59 | absentia | didn't nkow that. |
| 20:58.20 | absentia | treke: ya, that makes sense... it's a biological self preservation thing |
| 20:58.23 | treke | the bsd license doesnt. |
| 20:58.27 | kergoth | Neo ran into that with his SDL use in his games at eongames |
| 20:58.52 | absentia | look how many zaurus things probably only exist now in binary .ipk form, because the source was package separately from the binary. |
| 20:59.36 | fusion94 | BSD is the way to go..... |
| 20:59.40 | kergoth | heh, half the maintainers vanished, good luck being able to ask them to request the source anyway |
| 20:59.45 | fusion94 | has the most "freedom" |
| 21:00.25 | frobnoid | fusion94: but BSD also lets you get screwed more easily if you're the opriginal developer |
| 21:00.45 | absentia | kergoth: exactly. |
| 21:00.48 | kergoth | frobnoid: not everyone cares if someone else benefits from your code. |
| 21:01.02 | absentia | I think they were ok, they provided the source... but no one seems to grab that... it's always just the binary. |
| 21:01.08 | kergoth | i'm not opposed to using the GPL in my stuff, but i dont deceive myself with this "freedom" nonsense |
| 21:01.22 | kergoth | if i use the GPL, its to limit freedom of others, period |
| 21:01.24 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:01.29 | absentia | kergoth: I don't |
| 21:01.34 | absentia | I only care if smeone else claims that they OWN my code |
| 21:01.39 | frobnoid | kergoth: agreed. I'm not saying BSD is better, just that thats the tradeoff... (although screwed is a pejorative term...) |
| 21:01.46 | absentia | and try to prevent me from not only working on it, but from releasing another branch of it! |
| 21:02.14 | absentia | ie: if I work for a company... and on the weekend I make my own code that has nothing to do with work, but then it starts to become popular and work gets wind.. they may try to take ownership... and then PREVENT me from working on it. |
| 21:02.22 | fusion94 | #1 Reason to hate the GPL: FSF and RMS wrote and love it |
| 21:02.28 | absentia | hence, I filed papers with HR regarding my interest in AI and my patents |
| 21:02.28 | Disconnect | absentia: thats an entirely different issue. |
| 21:02.32 | kergoth | fusion94: hah, indeed |
| 21:02.46 | absentia | well, loko at dmca |
| 21:02.49 | absentia | I see it as the same thing |
| 21:02.53 | kergoth | absentia: as Disconnect says, different issue. we're talking about licensing, not about who owns the copyright |
| 21:03.05 | absentia | it's poorly conceived and implemented. |
| 21:03.07 | absentia | people abuse it. |
| 21:03.59 | absentia | well, if the company is working on os code... and you do your own stuff at home, the company could claim they own the copyright.. and have the sole right to license... and then pressure you, because you're an employee ... to stop you work, etc. |
| 21:04.12 | absentia | some companies are just evil/stupid that way. |
| 21:04.14 | Disconnect | absentia: gpl and dmca do actually have a lot in common. they say "here is this thing you got legitimately. now here is what you can do with it...." |
| 21:04.14 | frobnoid | absentia: depends on the agreement you have with your employer. |
| 21:04.16 | kergoth | Disconnect: yep. its more often about protecting our own interests than it is about the freedom of anything, evangelists aside |
| 21:04.40 | Disconnect | kergoth: btw does oe/oz have a posted policy about copyright? |
| 21:04.44 | frobnoid | absentia: although if it comes down to a legal battle, the company will win, of course! |
| 21:04.44 | absentia | frob: not really... employers are like SCO, they go after things AFTER THE FACT.. and then claim some clause gives them some blanket of you and your thoughts. |
| 21:04.56 | kergoth | Disconnect: oe/oz doesnt have posted policies at all |
| 21:04.56 | absentia | frob: exactly. |
| 21:05.00 | Disconnect | (and wtf will it take to get sharp to smarten up and relicense qt under lgpl instead of gpl?) |
| 21:05.03 | kergoth | Disconnect: heh. i need to get documenting :) |
| 21:05.27 | Disconnect | kergoth: um. heh. so .. um. wow. you could be so totally fscked if sharp does that.. (what about opie? same thing?) |
| 21:05.32 | treke | erm. Trolltech did smarten up and release it under the gpe for a reason. |
| 21:05.41 | absentia | gpe ? |
| 21:05.41 | Disconnect | well. actually. maybe not, since you split oe and oe/packages .. |
| 21:05.54 | kergoth | yep, exactly. oe is gpl, and packages is only metadata.. |
| 21:05.58 | treke | gpl. |
| 21:07.00 | kergoth | Disconnect: fyi, i'm sanity checking what will be our official glibc 2.3.2 / gcc 3.3.2 chain. |
| 21:07.26 | Disconnect | cool |
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| 21:08.57 | conundrum | ibot: ipkg-link |
| 21:08.58 | | conundrum: I wish you would RTFM. |
| 21:09.11 | conundrum | ibot: Your no help, as usual. |
| 21:09.13 | | conundrum: are you using Windows? |
| 21:09.23 | conundrum | ibot: Are YOU using windows? |
| 21:09.25 | | conundrum: I wish you would RTFM. |
| 21:09.25 | Disconnect | lol. the 'i' must be 'insult' |
| 21:09.34 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:13.25 | conundrum | Is it normal for a lot of links to fail when installing ipkgs to /mnt/card? |
| 21:13.37 | _Psycho | card formated in fat16 |
| 21:13.37 | _Psycho | yes |
| 21:13.41 | kergoth | depends |
| 21:13.45 | _Psycho | but yes depend |
| 21:13.48 | kergoth | if you mean the links back to /, some will fail no matter what |
| 21:13.54 | kergoth | because aqpkg tries linking both dirs & files |
| 21:14.05 | _Psycho | oh didnt knew that |
| 21:14.05 | kergoth | and obviously the dir already exists in /, you cant replace it with a symlink.. |
| 21:14.14 | kergoth | it doenst bother to check the type of file |
| 21:14.18 | kergoth | silly bug |
| 21:14.32 | conundrum | Are there any other package managers that might not do that? |
| 21:14.38 | kergoth | .. |
| 21:14.39 | kergoth | its harmless. |
| 21:15.00 | conundrum | Oh. Sorry, I'm just used to ascociating "failed" with something baad. |
| 21:15.13 | kergoth | the point being, just because you see a link failure in aqpkg's log doesnt mean it actually didnt work the way it should |
| 21:15.51 | conundrum | Alright. Thanks. |
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| 21:19.06 | conundrum | Hrmm, has anyone been able to get any media player working on a 3.3.5 SL-5500? |
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| 21:36.32 | *** join/#zaurus W8TVI (~W8TVI@userd90.torchlake.com) |
| 21:43.29 | conundrum | Hey W8TVI, what ROM are you running? |
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| 22:10.22 | conundrum_ | How do I auto answer yes to fsck? |
| 22:10.29 | conundrum_ | My SD card is messed. |
| 22:10.36 | frobnoid | fsck -y |
| 22:10.45 | conundrum_ | fsck -y /dev/mmcda1 |
| 22:10.46 | conundrum_ | ? |
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| 22:15.37 | mrwoody | yes |
| 22:29.58 | conundrum_ | Wow. 3.3.5 is buggy. |
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| 22:46.39 | bobbyd | hi, does anyone have any tips for movie encoding format for the zaurus? |
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| 22:50.39 | absentia | re |
| 22:50.46 | absentia | how so buggy? |
| 22:53.24 | bobbyd | absentia: what's buggy? |
| 22:55.17 | absentia | oz 3.3.5 |
| 22:55.20 | absentia | connundrum said that |
| 22:55.40 | kergoth | there are some .. quirks that resulted from using sharp's crappy 2.4.18 tree |
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| 22:55.57 | meshuga | bobbyd : use divx handheld |
| 22:56.10 | bobbyd | it's buggy because it's in transition, and also because noone's fixed the bugs yet ;) |
| 22:56.13 | treke | that kernel got what? a half day of testing? :p |
| 22:56.16 | absentia | kerg: such as? |
| 22:56.21 | kergoth | treke: heh, if that |
| 22:56.29 | treke | "it builds, shipt it" |
| 22:56.34 | treke | bobbyd: There was no transition for 3.3.5 |
| 22:56.35 | absentia | microsoft! |
| 22:56.42 | treke | bobbyd: That was pulled out of the old buildsystem :) |
| 22:57.20 | absentia | ok, I'll attempt to find the oe build environemtn... |
| 22:57.31 | bobbyd | treke: I was meaning that a lot of effor is being put into the OpenEmbedded system so bugs in this release arent as important |
| 22:57.53 | treke | hehe yeah. 3.3.5 is sort of a "give them whatever still builds" release |
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| 22:59.00 | bobbyd | I for one am happy to see progress |
| 22:59.07 | absentia | agreed |
| 22:59.33 | bobbyd | I still intend to write an alsa driver for the c700 so that can go in the new build system |
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| 23:00.12 | treke | sweet. |
| 23:01.23 | bobbyd | I've got portadudio building for the 3.3.5 release using oss so I'll package that sometime too |
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| 23:01.46 | absentia | I don't see a dev link on the openzaurus.org page... I don't see a oe howto... so I'll follow "GettingStarted" at oe |
| 23:02.13 | kergoth | openembedded.org |
| 23:02.20 | kergoth | yeah, use the wiki entry |
| 23:02.33 | bobbyd | absentia: got o the faq, in the search page select source from the list |
| 23:02.44 | kergoth | bobbyd: that doesnt apply to oe, only buildroot |
| 23:02.51 | bobbyd | oh sorry |
| 23:03.00 | bobbyd | I thought he was talking about buildroot |
| 23:03.09 | absentia | filling out bk download form |
| 23:03.21 | kergoth | there are snapshots at http://treke.net/~bk/ as well |
| 23:03.30 | bobbyd | kergoth: I'm about to have a go at oe. will it build something that runs at the moment? |
| 23:03.53 | absentia | ker: saw that. |
| 23:03.54 | bobbyd | (on the c700) |
| 23:04.43 | kergoth | it builds a set of packages, and oeinstall/oeimage can produce a bootable image |
| 23:04.55 | kergoth | not sure about c700 specifically, need to add a corgi.conf with the eraseblock size for jffs2 |
| 23:04.58 | bobbyd | ok, I'll have a go |
| 23:05.04 | kergoth | and a thing to add the header to initrd.bin.. but thats like a 5 minute job |
| 23:05.18 | bobbyd | ok (saves buffer....) |
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| 23:08.48 | rev | yo yo yo |
| 23:09.01 | rev | anyone here done much consulting? |
| 23:09.06 | rev | i am wondering howq much i should charge |
| 23:09.23 | ChipX86 | depends on what you do |
| 23:09.29 | ChipX86 | and what the clients can afford |
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| 23:09.51 | ChipX86 | I've been doing it locally for about 9 years |
| 23:09.59 | absentia | I have |
| 23:10.06 | absentia | I use to have my own business... in the mid west |
| 23:10.14 | absentia | I use to charge $50/hr back in the mid 90s.. but I got too much work |
| 23:10.21 | ChipX86 | you charge more than me |
| 23:10.21 | absentia | so I upped it to $100/hr and I get 2x as much work. |
| 23:10.22 | absentia | *sigh* |
| 23:10.29 | ChipX86 | wish people here could afford more.. |
| 23:10.50 | absentia | I moved on to consulting for my company outsourced to another consulting company.. most people made $125/hr take home... plus all expenses |
| 23:10.52 | imk | i charge $60/hr |
| 23:11.02 | absentia | but $50/hr seems reasonable for non urban locations. |
| 23:11.13 | absentia | I was paid $100 to change a unix machine's hostname |
| 23:11.16 | absentia | took 2 minutes |
| 23:11.24 | absentia | the guy said I should pretend to be busy for the rest of the hour. |
| 23:11.30 | absentia | he also praised me for not rebooting the machine. |
| 23:11.41 | ChipX86 | heh |
| 23:11.41 | imk | i charge an hour minimum no matter what |
| 23:11.42 | kergoth | heh, i've never done consulting, and this is my first contract position.. before that was just full time salary stuff |
| 23:11.45 | absentia | I've also turned down payment for helping people install aol. |
| 23:11.53 | absentia | I just politely asked them not to (ever) call me again. |
| 23:12.03 | absentia | imk: me too. |
| 23:12.04 | treke | hehe. that is payment enough |
| 23:12.29 | absentia | one lady said she wanted to pay me to find her the latest aol install disk. |
| 23:12.44 | absentia | I passed.. and pllitely suggested... kinkos... etc. |
| 23:13.13 | imk | if its a contract, i usually have them pay a set amount per month and that includes 8 hours of on site help and 8 hours of phone help... anything over those limits is $50/hr and that includes the time it takes to drive there one way... if its no contract, its usually $65/hr |
| 23:13.17 | absentia | I know I use to have the complete collection... 100 free hours, 200, etc.. what's it up to now? 1200? |
| 23:13.34 | TheMasterMind1 | absentia: more i think |
| 23:13.38 | absentia | yes, I did remote sysadmin work.... check www.scotyelich.com in wayback machine. |
| 23:13.47 | *** join/#zaurus lfm (~lfm@200-42-40-42.prima.net.ar) |
| 23:13.47 | imk | i have a $4500/mo contract with the local mitsubishi dealer... and that includes 8 hours of on site service and 8 hours of phone service... its great |
| 23:14.21 | absentia | damn |
| 23:14.25 | kergoth | damn |
| 23:14.25 | absentia | that's really nice! |
| 23:14.25 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:14.37 | lfm | hello. Is anyone using OZ or other Image that makes the 5600 work with linux ? |
| 23:14.42 | absentia | best I ever did was $72K for 48 hours.. but that was whacky... and not realistic. |
| 23:14.42 | imk | getting a contract like that also makes it really easy to stack up other contracts |
| 23:14.51 | absentia | (I worked 1 hour of it)...really. |
| 23:14.55 | rev | er |
| 23:14.57 | rev | srry back |
| 23:15.03 | rev | here is the deal |
| 23:15.10 | rev | i need to put in a bid on a one time project |
| 23:15.14 | rev | maybe hourly support down the line |
| 23:15.26 | rev | they need something up ported from WinCE 3.0 to WinCE.NET 4.x |
| 23:15.45 | rev | not entirely sure why, the WinCE 3.0 binary works fine on my WinCE.NET 4.1 platform |
| 23:15.53 | rev | but not like that will stop me from doing it for them |
| 23:16.09 | rev | and they want me to quote them a one time cost |
| 23:16.15 | absentia | how long will it take you ? |
| 23:16.17 | rev | i am pretty new to this, having odne hourly jobs before |
| 23:16.23 | rev | well, was thinking around 60 hours |
| 23:16.28 | absentia | serious? |
| 23:16.45 | rev | yes |
| 23:16.52 | absentia | will you be working on anything else at the same time ? |
| 23:16.52 | rev | in this case it'll end up to be mostly testing |
| 23:16.54 | absentia | for anyone else? |
| 23:17.01 | absentia | ah, ok... |
| 23:17.06 | absentia | $3K is not a bad price to pay for that. |
| 23:17.16 | rev | i hope to do it during winter break, but will be working some at the university helpdesk |
| 23:17.17 | rev | but that is it |
| 23:17.19 | rev | nothing much |
| 23:17.20 | absentia | what is the size of the company this is for ? |
| 23:17.21 | rev | and no school |
| 23:18.15 | absentia | what is the size of the company this is for ? |
| 23:18.58 | *** join/#zaurus ciaolinux (~paolo@pool-141-153-241-217.mad.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:20.26 | rev | trying to discern that now |
| 23:20.34 | rev | not huge, not any big name |
| 23:21.43 | frobnoid | rev: just recompile it and tell them its ported. |
| 23:22.37 | frobnoid | the company I work for paid a contractor ~20k+ to recompile our product with a new compiler, via the compatibility flag!, about ten minutes work. |
| 23:22.49 | treke | there always could be some subtle bug that will take you two months to track down |
| 23:22.55 | treke | :) |
| 23:23.09 | absentia | treke: yes, but that's followup |
| 23:23.21 | absentia | porting doesn't mean solve all new bugs |
| 23:23.24 | absentia | peace [454]> echo `gzip -d -c all.gz | egrep -i scottyelich | egrep -i clients | awk '{print $2}' | awk -F/ '{print $5}' | tr -d ":" | sort -u` |
| 23:23.24 | absentia | CGR bioreason.com biosgroup.com bosque chello dataventures.com daylight divamatrix frontiere.org iceblock lobodirect.com lockdata.com lofts mfg-inc.com misc netexpert.ch nets.com nmhost.com nsa orenda-arts.org privatesearch qwest resumes rhic roadrunner.com scottyelich.com sfnewmexican.com silicon tmp toro warehouse21 world wusage xynergy |
| 23:23.29 | absentia | there, that's a listing of my old clients. |
| 23:24.12 | *** join/#zaurus chouimat (~chouimat@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 23:24.20 | absentia | I wrote a perl program that did the labels for the inserts in the sunday news paper in santa fe... :-) it was actually a project of my fiance's at the time... but I just wrote it. |
| 23:24.23 | absentia | fun times. |
| 23:24.32 | rev | heh |
| 23:24.33 | rev | fun |
| 23:25.05 | absentia | they had no (unix) admin, no clue.. even when I gave one to them, they didn't know what it was. it was so... sad. |
| 23:26.46 | rev | man |
| 23:27.22 | absentia | well, I think if you're not going to be working for anyone else on any code.. and you're not going to be spending time with family... you could easily get by with $50/hr ... I know that's dirt cheap compared to some places. |
| 23:28.04 | absentia | at work, we have citrix... and the boss wanted to display different apps depending on groups, etc... but citrix said they didn't support it... and they would have to contract out a developer to find out what we needed, write specs, then propose to write code, etc... take two weeks to find out what we need, etc. |
| 23:29.37 | absentia | boss gave me the project the day before it was due... I think it was vbscript... dunno. I looked at the code, figured out what it was doing... figured out where to splice in my code... wrote something.. etc. 1 aborted loop, injected mine, gave a flag for match or exclude, even allowed for columns, etc... 1 line change in their code to include my 10 lines (all commented) |
| 23:29.53 | absentia | and the pc guy STILL asks me to watch him install it to make sure it will work.. and wants me to test it, etc. |
| 23:30.06 | absentia | I figure I saved the company over $10K and 3 months time. |
| 23:30.52 | absentia | another project had been going on for like 12 months.. I was called in to a meeting, they asked when things could be done -- I said "how about 5pm?" they looked at me like I was insane... they still had to find out if they could get approval for the ability to make a decision on which software to use... |
| 23:31.19 | absentia | 18 months to decide to use an ssl ftp... and 6 months later, the project was killed during budget hacks. could have taken 2 hours to do if they really cared. |
| 23:31.42 | absentia | imagine $1million to "evaluate" linux. |
| 23:31.47 | absentia | I heard that.. not sure if I believe it. |
| 23:31.59 | absentia | gimme $100K and i'll implement it... and still make a profit. |
| 23:34.31 | absentia | hello ? |
| 23:34.34 | absentia | that boring, eh? |
| 23:34.43 | MG_Tak | I gotta say, yeah, kinda.. |
| 23:34.46 | absentia | hahah |
| 23:35.19 | kergoth | hm, i hope i can get moved from contract to full time at ti |
| 23:35.31 | treke | then you can get benefits? |
| 23:35.32 | absentia | this place had contractors for 10 years |
| 23:35.40 | absentia | it's a microsoft trick |
| 23:35.40 | kergoth | treke: non-sucky benefits, preferably |
| 23:35.48 | absentia | work ya for just under full time hours so they don't have to give benefits, etc. |
| 23:37.50 | absentia | anyone know... uh.. nevermind. |
| 23:37.53 | absentia | it won't work anyway. |
| 23:38.08 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:42.15 | absentia | it'snot worth the hassle of explaining . |
| 23:48.06 | treke | rev: You get everything? |
| 23:51.50 | absentia | you know, one thing I like about twiki is that you can include pages... it helps keep some of the fragmentation of wiki from occuring |
| 23:52.46 | absentia | what is docbook utils and sgmlutils ? |
| 23:54.53 | absentia | ok, I get bitkeeper... and run the .bin file? |
| 23:54.59 | kergoth | yep |
| 23:55.14 | absentia | strange |
| 23:55.19 | absentia | I copied the file to bk |
| 23:55.22 | absentia | chmod 755 bk |
| 23:55.25 | absentia | ./bk and it failed! |
| 23:55.38 | kergoth | failed? its a shell archive. vim, see whats up |
| 23:55.39 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:55.39 | absentia | so I asked here, so while I asked, I 755 the original and ran it, but that one worked. |
| 23:55.43 | kergoth | ah |
| 23:55.45 | kergoth | weird |
| 23:55.45 | absentia | I hate shitty installers that depend on their name |
| 23:55.50 | kergoth | guess it must assume it .. yeah that |
| 23:55.58 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:56.13 | absentia | I mean, I expect to get software one day that just says "scott, this won't (ever) work for you, just give up now." |
| 23:56.47 | absentia | when you read those things that say "there are known issues with x version a.b, y version c.d and z version e.f ... when used together... which shouldn't be common" .. wel, that's me. :-) |
| 23:57.06 | absentia | I installed moinmoin wiki... it asked me to name my wiki, so I called it... wiki... apparently that's the only name I couldn't have used. |
| 23:57.15 | absentia | (it didn't say that I cuoldn't use that) |
