| 00:10.33 | *** join/#zaurus mewyn ([PlnTTLa17@dsl081-228-056.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 00:23.30 | *** join/#zaurus blitzrage (~blitzrage@dsl-128.sarnia.xcelco.on.ca) |
| 00:23.33 | *** join/#zaurus sharpie (~sharpie@12-240-5-171.client.attbi.com) |
| 00:26.17 | *** part/#zaurus _andy_ (~andy@roc-24-93-23-148.rochester.rr.com) |
| 01:06.02 | kergoth | sharpie: /me notifications are annoying. |
| 01:08.12 | MG_Tak | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:08.13 | MG_Tak | ? |
| 01:12.07 | sharpie | kergoth: ya, just noticed that. thanks for letting me know. |
| 01:12.31 | kergoth | np |
| 01:12.41 | MG_Tak | didn't know..? |
| 01:13.12 | sharpie | just started using Kopete to ckeck it out. |
| 01:13.16 | MG_Tak | ah |
| 01:16.55 | sharpie | cool, looks like gentoo has an irssi package, i might have to check it out also. |
| 01:17.13 | MG_Tak | of course it does |
| 01:18.39 | *** join/#zaurus gerrynjr (~gerrynjr@h00a0cc36b102.ne.client2.attbi.com) |
| 01:28.42 | gerrynjr | allo fellow zaurus users! |
| 01:28.52 | gerrynjr | offroadgeek[away> you there man?! |
| 01:35.28 | *** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-44c14684.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 01:45.13 | *** join/#zaurus AlexPGP (~alex@adsl-66.112.30.52.laj.centurytel.net) |
| 01:45.33 | AlexPGP | 'lo, all. |
| 01:45.48 | gerrynjr | lo AlexPGP |
| 01:46.34 | AlexPGP | Can anyone point me at docs that provide more info than Tinylogin regarding program options? |
| 01:46.46 | AlexPGP | I'm going nuts with 'adduser'. |
| 01:47.58 | kergoth | read the source |
| 01:48.00 | kergoth | best bet |
| 02:41.38 | *** join/#zaurus br33zy (~br33zy@66-91-245-150.san.rr.com) |
| 02:45.43 | yo-sef | i installed the opie media player and this seemed to overwrite the default player |
| 02:45.51 | yo-sef | is there any way to get the default back? |
| 02:46.05 | yo-sef | short of resetting my zaurus |
| 02:46.10 | *** join/#zaurus minipanda (~zhanght@211.154.175.2) |
| 02:46.16 | minipanda | join #openzaurus |
| 02:46.30 | minipanda | Oh, sorry ... |
| 03:05.59 | *** join/#zaurus treke|laptop (~ggilbert@lsanca2-ar29-4-41-064-109.lsanca2.elnk.dsl.genuity.net) |
| 03:06.12 | sharpie | Anyone have any feedback on the CodeWarrior Sharp Zaurus SDK, except for the fact that $800 dollars sux.? |
| 03:15.09 | *** join/#zaurus rev (~Malkin@24-197-179-70.dul.mn.charter.com) |
| 03:15.18 | rev | yo hos! |
| 03:18.53 | ljp | sharpie: I have used/tested that |
| 03:19.49 | treke|laptop | bitch. |
| 03:19.51 | ljp | its pretty sweet. when you run the executable, it uploads it to the z in the usb, and runs it there, getting debug info back into the code warrior |
| 03:20.32 | ljp | only had a few problems with the cygwin lib/headers |
| 03:21.04 | ljp | but other than that, I would recommend it for peopl/companies that can afford it, and use windows to develop |
| 03:21.34 | treke|laptop | of course you didnt pay for it |
| 03:21.41 | ljp | no. :) |
| 03:21.48 | ljp | we got a copy of it |
| 03:22.19 | ljp | I wish it wasnt so expensive |
| 03:23.02 | ljp | you can even step through the code, as its running on the device |
| 03:23.59 | ljp | it didnt like tmpnam usage |
| 03:24.34 | ljp | the editor is really nice, too. right click on an #include, and it can open up that file |
| 03:25.01 | treke|laptop | too bad it isnt vim |
| 03:25.22 | ljp | no one would use it then |
| 03:25.32 | sharpie | cool, thats good to hear. |
| 03:25.42 | treke|laptop | ah hell yeah. the train station scene in untouchables is on |
| 03:25.46 | sharpie | I don't think anyone would pay for vim. |
| 03:26.05 | ljp | dunno if they have evals of it, but if so, you should check it out |
| 03:26.29 | sharpie | Thanks, I think I will. |
| 03:28.00 | ljp | the program you run on the zaurus didn't run in oz |
| 03:29.10 | sharpie | Kdevelop is great, but sdk for the newer ROM devices is all in Japanese :( |
| 03:31.27 | *** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-44c14684.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 03:34.11 | treke|laptop | that's just a great shootout |
| 03:34.12 | ljp | kdevelop3 has a qtopia app template |
| 03:36.54 | rev | wooo |
| 03:36.57 | rev | does it work slick like? |
| 03:37.03 | rev | and hook up with the toolchain |
| 03:37.34 | ljp | you can set that stuff up |
| 03:38.02 | ljp | I am going to submit an opie app template |
| 03:38.26 | rev | nice |
| 03:38.41 | sharpie | very cool. |
| 03:39.15 | yo-sef | anyone played billiardz? |
| 03:40.08 | ljp | and am writing a howto fro qtopia app development on kdevelop 3 |
| 03:55.34 | ljp | I used billardz ages ago |
| 03:56.28 | yo-sef | ah ok |
| 03:56.43 | yo-sef | couldnt figure out how to hit the cue ball, but i got it |
| 03:56.59 | ljp | which rom are using? |
| 03:57.04 | yo-sef | have to select power level before hitting |
| 03:57.07 | yo-sef | 3.1 |
| 03:57.17 | yo-sef | zaurus |
| 04:01.47 | *** join/#zaurus TheMasterMind1 (~aman@h-68-166-66-21.MCLNVA23.dynamic.covad.net) |
| 04:03.16 | ljp | is that an old build of billardz? |
| 04:03.32 | yo-sef | think it might be |
| 04:03.36 | yo-sef | not sure |
| 04:03.50 | treke|laptop | there was only one build afaik |
| 04:04.16 | ljp | ya. oh well |
| 04:04.20 | treke|laptop | a shame |
| 04:04.42 | ljp | yup. a lot of apps are like that |
| 04:05.00 | ljp | at least the gpl'd ones we can recompile |
| 04:05.14 | treke|laptop | even tougher becase the author is still around :) |
| 04:06.03 | ljp | is he? |
| 04:06.08 | treke|laptop | ChipX86 wrote it |
| 04:06.25 | ljp | ahh. we can pester him then |
| 04:06.46 | ChipX86 | yes, but let's wait until he's done with his reports |
| 04:06.57 | ljp | no! |
| 04:07.03 | ljp | must recompile now!] |
| 04:07.09 | ChipX86 | there will be a billiardz ipk for openzaurus pretty soon |
| 04:07.13 | ChipX86 | because I'm wanting to play it again |
| 04:07.15 | ChipX86 | :) |
| 04:07.23 | ljp | with bug fixes/improvements? |
| 04:07.25 | treke|laptop | hehe ipks are easy :p |
| 04:07.33 | treke|laptop | the code is the hard part |
| 04:07.37 | ChipX86 | ljp: sure. Let me know when the patch is ready |
| 04:07.49 | ljp | source is available for that? |
| 04:07.54 | ChipX86 | gaim, qpe-gaim, cheops, and GNUpdate take a lot of my time |
| 04:08.06 | treke|laptop | dump gnupdate and just use oe |
| 04:08.13 | ChipX86 | two different things |
| 04:08.21 | ChipX86 | http://www.chipx86.com/packages/ipkg/billiardz-0.1.3.tar.gz |
| 04:08.35 | ChipX86 | heh |
| 04:08.47 | ljp | but I am a bit biased |
| 04:08.54 | ChipX86 | need to get GNUpdate working for some future rpm development |
| 04:12.58 | ChipX86 | (reading above...) there were 4 releases of billiardz |
| 04:14.24 | ljp | aahh |
| 04:14.37 | ChipX86 | I just got busy and never resumed it |
| 04:17.54 | ljp | could you make billardz play well on large screens like c700? |
| 04:18.08 | ChipX86 | got a c700 for me to test with? :) |
| 04:18.08 | treke|laptop | send him a c700 :p |
| 04:18.16 | ChipX86 | a lot of good things will come out of it ;) |
| 04:18.29 | ljp | there's qvfb you can adjust the screen size :) |
| 04:18.31 | treke|laptop | c700s are shit if you want games :) |
| 04:18.43 | ChipX86 | ljp: yeah, thought I'd try anyway |
| 04:18.59 | ChipX86 | we'll see. If I get bored enough, maybe I'll do that |
| 04:19.03 | *** join/#zaurus W8TVI (~w8tvi@3639246125.mi.dial.hexcom.net) |
| 04:19.15 | ChipX86 | though I haven't had a chance to be bored in a few years now, so.. not sure when that'll be |
| 04:19.47 | ljp | that reminds me.. zaurus is coming up on being two years old |
| 04:19.59 | ChipX86 | time flies |
| 04:20.33 | ljp | ya, and whoda thunk 2 years ago, that would be working at TT in 2 years |
| 04:21.27 | mewyn | who'd have thought you'd be suspended from your feet in the upside down part of the world |
| 04:22.09 | ljp | I walk on my hands |
| 04:22.23 | sharpie | lol |
| 04:22.26 | *** part/#zaurus sharpie (~sharpie@12-240-5-171.client.attbi.com) |
| 04:22.48 | *** join/#zaurus sharpie (~sharpie@12-240-5-171.client.attbi.com) |
| 04:27.57 | W8TVI | ljp: put your hands on your laptop and back away from the c700 |
| 04:28.40 | ljp | which one? |
| 04:28.59 | W8TVI | ljp: we have you surrounded |
| 04:29.09 | W8TVI | the newer on |
| 04:29.43 | ljp | cant tell which one is newer |
| 04:29.58 | W8TVI | it would be the one with the higher serial number |
| 04:30.14 | ljp | the serial number sticker came off of one of them |
| 04:30.22 | W8TVI | lol |
| 04:30.40 | W8TVI | I want a c700 |
| 04:32.24 | rev | heh |
| 04:32.32 | rev | my Sigmarion III comes tommorow! |
| 04:32.33 | rev | WOOOOOT |
| 04:32.35 | W8TVI | want to trade a 5000d for one? |
| 04:32.56 | rev | hahaha |
| 04:33.00 | ChipX86 | :) |
| 04:33.00 | rev | i may sell my c760 |
| 04:33.01 | rev | we'll see tho |
| 04:33.05 | ChipX86 | I need to get my hands on a c7x0 |
| 04:33.43 | ljp | I would rather have a c760 |
| 04:33.52 | ChipX86 | same |
| 04:34.03 | W8TVI | if I had a c760 I wouldnt want a c700 |
| 04:34.04 | W8TVI | :p |
| 04:34.17 | rev | HAH |
| 04:34.19 | rev | er |
| 04:34.19 | rev | hehe |
| 04:34.20 | ChipX86 | good. Send me the c700 |
| 04:34.21 | rev | indeed |
| 04:34.24 | ChipX86 | or the c760 |
| 04:34.31 | rev | musical pdas |
| 04:34.35 | ChipX86 | haha |
| 04:34.47 | ChipX86 | qpe-gaim is actually getting some c7x0 lovin' this next release |
| 04:35.01 | ljp | I'll trade a 5000d customized with an internal mic for a c760 |
| 04:35.13 | treke|laptop | offer it to havaard. |
| 04:35.17 | treke|laptop | ChipX86: cool. |
| 04:35.28 | W8TVI | for |
| 04:35.32 | ljp | I think haavard likes his c760 |
| 04:36.20 | W8TVI | rev: will it run linux? |
| 04:36.35 | treke|laptop | W8TVI: no, its a ce device |
| 04:36.52 | rev | W8TVI: it may eventually, but doesn't now |
| 04:36.54 | rev | thank god |
| 04:36.57 | W8TVI | ipaqs are ce devices, but you can run linux on them |
| 04:37.10 | rev | yeah, and the jornada 720 is a ce device but can run linux, though you can't flash it onto the rom |
| 04:37.20 | W8TVI | ? |
| 04:37.31 | rev | ... ? |
| 04:37.43 | W8TVI | ? |
| 04:38.08 | rev | what are you ?ing at? |
| 04:38.30 | W8TVI | your last statement |
| 04:40.05 | rev | the thank god |
| 04:40.06 | rev | or |
| 04:40.08 | rev | yeah, and the jornada 720 is a ce device but can run linux, though you can't flash it onto the rom |
| 04:40.35 | W8TVI | witch one was "your last statement"? |
| 04:40.57 | rev | "yeah, and the jornada 720 is a ce device but can run linux, though you can't flash it onto the rom" |
| 04:41.03 | rev | but i can't figure out why that would confuse you |
| 04:41.45 | W8TVI | the simi-obvious question to that would be "then how do run linux on it?" |
| 04:42.31 | treke|laptop | You put it on a pcmcia card? |
| 04:42.54 | rev | or CF card |
| 04:42.57 | rev | or internal memory |
| 04:43.02 | W8TVI | but how does it know to boot from the card and not the internal rom |
| 04:43.04 | rev | something not unlike UMSDOS fs |
| 04:43.12 | rev | there is a program you run in CE |
| 04:43.13 | treke|laptop | W8TVI: You run a program that loads the kernel |
| 04:43.20 | rev | called something inventive like StartLinux.exe |
| 04:43.25 | rev | that boots the kernel |
| 04:43.42 | W8TVI | so ce still uses dos? |
| 04:43.50 | treke|laptop | uhm no |
| 04:43.51 | W8TVI | no wonder they suck |
| 04:43.58 | W8TVI | :P |
| 04:44.05 | rev | no |
| 04:44.10 | rev | where did you get that? |
| 04:44.16 | rev | cuz I said UMSDOS? |
| 04:44.24 | *** join/#zaurus Pendalar (Pendalar@68.114.156.106) |
| 04:44.31 | kergoth | he said it was *not unlike* umsdos, not that it used it. heh. |
| 04:44.31 | rev | i said "something not unlike UMSDOS" |
| 04:44.32 | kergoth | hey Pendalar |
| 04:44.46 | rev | and in any case, UMSDOS doesn't use or need DOS |
| 04:45.03 | W8TVI | "<rev> called something inventive like StartLinux.exe" |
| 04:45.18 | treke|laptop | W8TVI: and what does that have to do with dos? |
| 04:45.19 | kergoth | W8TVI: ? |
| 04:45.23 | W8TVI | I just like to pick on wince |
| 04:45.25 | rev | exe doesn't mean dos |
| 04:46.10 | rev | ah |
| 04:46.23 | rev | i'm sure there are semi-real ways to pick on it rather than that stuff |
| 04:46.23 | rev | heh |
| 04:46.27 | W8TVI | every wince pda that I've messed with, seemed slow and very user unfriendly |
| 04:46.46 | W8TVI | even the "fast" ones |
| 04:47.12 | treke|laptop | kinda like the zaurus? |
| 04:47.31 | rev | haha |
| 04:47.34 | W8TVI | no, the zaurus is alot more user friendly |
| 04:48.07 | rev | haha |
| 04:48.09 | W8TVI | you can easly tell when more than one program, and its easy to switch between them |
| 04:48.26 | Pendalar | hi =-) |
| 04:48.38 | rev | you're thinking of PocketPC and not WinCE |
| 04:48.43 | treke|laptop | switching between apps works exactly the same way |
| 04:48.46 | treke|laptop | w |
| 04:48.51 | rev | that's like saying because twm is confusing to use that you should never use linux |
| 04:48.57 | rev | there's a taskbar |
| 04:49.05 | W8TVI | fluxbox rox |
| 04:49.06 | rev | qtopia stole the idea from windows, although not that it's a problem |
| 04:49.14 | rev | the zaurus- with software step they use- is much much slower than CE; uses much much more RAM |
| 04:49.19 | treke|laptop | yes it is a problem |
| 04:49.23 | rev | meaning sharp rom + qtopia or OZ/OPIE |
| 04:49.24 | treke|laptop | the idea sucks ass |
| 04:49.27 | rev | yeah |
| 04:49.28 | rev | indeed |
| 04:49.40 | rev | PocketPC's UI for multitasking and such is very scrweed up though, that is 100% true |
| 04:49.40 | W8TVI | and they "stole" the idea from apple |
| 04:49.46 | rev | umm |
| 04:49.48 | rev | apple didn't have a taskbar |
| 04:49.51 | treke|laptop | uhm, no. |
| 04:49.54 | rev | maybe you mean the GUI |
| 04:50.00 | W8TVI | the bar at the top |
| 04:50.09 | rev | ? |
| 04:50.10 | W8TVI | the little drop down box at the end |
| 04:50.12 | treke|laptop | W8TVI: do you just pull this shit out of your ass? |
| 04:50.13 | rev | that's a menu bar FYI |
| 04:50.15 | rev | haha |
| 04:50.18 | rev | methinks so |
| 04:50.22 | W8TVI | no, out of yours |
| 04:50.30 | W8TVI | :P |
| 04:50.38 | kergoth | um |
| 04:50.54 | rev | except my ass excretes at least somewhat factual bullshit |
| 04:51.19 | W8TVI | even the gui on the old macs made more sence |
| 04:51.27 | rev | perhaps |
| 04:51.33 | rev | but that has nothing to do with ce vs zaurus |
| 04:51.40 | rev | POW |
| 04:51.42 | treke|laptop | kergoth isnt the one with someone elses hands in his ass |
| 04:52.08 | W8TVI | my work here is done. |
| 04:52.09 | rev | hahaha |
| 04:52.29 | W8TVI | got my trolling done for the week |
| 04:53.27 | rev | heh |
| 04:53.33 | rev | it'd not about that |
| 04:53.38 | treke|laptop | because they did some thing right? |
| 04:53.38 | rev | it's about defending truth |
| 04:53.43 | rev | i mean |
| 04:53.47 | rev | i'm a pragmatist |
| 04:53.52 | rev | not a linuix cheerleader |
| 04:54.01 | rev | i won't say MS suckz!! unless it does |
| 04:54.10 | rev | and it does in plenty of areas, but so does the zaurus |
| 04:54.22 | raster | what are we talking about? |
| 04:54.30 | rev | hell, i'd rather run WinCE on a x86 desktop than any desktop windows |
| 04:54.31 | treke|laptop | W8TVI: should we just pretend that there arent a lot of things that suck about qte, opie, and qtopia? |
| 04:54.33 | rev | raster: nothing really |
| 04:54.42 | rev | d00d qtopia rule |
| 04:54.43 | rev | !! |
| 04:54.49 | *** join/#zaurus qfh^gone (~qfh@pD9E8BAC8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:54.51 | raster | i might be able to use my spare fuel supply for my petrol gun :) |
| 04:55.02 | rev | it's a design flaw that M$ Wince launches apps so fast, they should take 6 seconds or more |
| 04:55.08 | raster | qtopia is ugly |
| 04:55.10 | rev | so you can be reminded how much linux RULEZ1!!1 during that time |
| 04:55.11 | raster | then again |
| 04:55.21 | raster | iuts still less ugly than CE(pocketpc) |
| 04:55.23 | raster | or palm UI |
| 04:55.30 | treke|laptop | pocketpc was also hit by the ugly stick |
| 04:55.42 | rev | i tend to prefer PalmOS, PPC and WinCE over Qtopia at least UI wise |
| 04:55.45 | treke|laptop | palm os wasnt too bad in the ugliness department for what they were dealing with |
| 04:55.45 | rev | looks i mean |
| 04:55.50 | rev | the best of course is the NEwton OS |
| 04:55.53 | rev | yeah |
| 04:55.57 | rev | POS did a good job IMHO |
| 04:55.58 | raster | they are all ugly |
| 04:56.35 | raster | treke|laptop: moving to hires palm devices has meant a definitive increase in ugliness |
| 04:56.37 | treke|laptop | get in line with the people waiting for e17 |
| 04:56.43 | treke|laptop | raster: that it does. |
| 04:56.51 | raster | kergoth: i'll get to oit.. been working towads it slowly... |
| 04:56.56 | raster | hgehehehe |
| 04:56.58 | rev | this reater is *the* raster? |
| 04:57.00 | rev | huh |
| 04:57.01 | rev | who knew |
| 04:57.03 | rev | sounds like me |
| 04:57.05 | raster | all the e17 stuff is geared for almost instant pda port |
| 04:57.07 | rev | and my purty pda environment |
| 04:57.11 | rev | really? |
| 04:57.12 | raster | much of it alrady there |
| 04:57.16 | rev | would it be usable on a PDA? |
| 04:57.49 | raster | rev: hehehehe |
| 04:57.56 | raster | rev: not the wm istewlf |
| 04:57.59 | raster | is an X wm |
| 04:58.01 | raster | it needs X |
| 04:58.02 | rev | well yeah |
| 04:58.02 | raster | etc. |
| 04:58.07 | rev | but i mean you're that raster |
| 04:58.15 | raster | but the libraries (evad, ecore, eet, edje etc.) all are ported |
| 04:58.20 | rev | ah cool |
| 04:58.24 | rev | intersting |
| 04:58.27 | raster | part of the work aimed for e17/e18 (canvas server) is whats really aimed to pda's |
| 04:58.34 | kergoth | I really like the api of the various libs used by e17, despite the function name lengths ;) |
| 04:58.39 | raster | so basically now u have a full canvs as a display system |
| 04:58.41 | treke|laptop | hehe |
| 04:58.51 | raster | instead of an immediate mode system where u go redrawing thigns all the time yourself |
| 04:58.52 | raster | :) |
| 04:59.05 | raster | kergoth: thats the big letdown.. fn names to olong! :) |
| 04:59.11 | raster | anyway |
| 04:59.11 | kergoth | hehe |
| 04:59.38 | raster | i've proven at elats to myself that doing full image sclaing, alpah blending etc with lots of images, layers and anti-aliased fonts etc. renders usably fast ona 200mhz arm box |
| 04:59.43 | raster | (@320x240) |
| 04:59.47 | raster | its usable |
| 04:59.54 | raster | in many cases very smooth and slick |
| 05:00.05 | raster | so its just now a matter of building a layer or 3... :) |
| 05:00.10 | treke|laptop | found the bug I've been hunting :) |
| 05:00.25 | treke|laptop | someone get raster a c760 |
| 05:01.10 | raster | i'm putting together my plans for evoak |
| 05:01.14 | raster | got the skeleton code already |
| 05:01.20 | treke|laptop | stupid select DISTINCT() :p |
| 05:01.25 | raster | that will be the canvas server |
| 05:01.32 | raster | just wait.... |
| 05:01.35 | raster | :) |
| 05:02.19 | rev | whacky, a new handheld PC |
| 05:02.20 | rev | http://pocketloft.com/ |
| 05:02.23 | rev | the webbook |
| 05:02.24 | rev | big though |
| 05:02.28 | rev | and only a 206 mhz strongarm heh |
| 05:02.39 | raster | 800x480 |
| 05:02.40 | raster | oooh |
| 05:02.58 | rev | raster: http://conics.net/shp/pda/sigmarion3/images/ |
| 05:03.01 | raster | damn expensive tho! |
| 05:03.02 | rev | i'm getting one of those |
| 05:03.06 | rev | it is a 800x480 |
| 05:03.10 | rev | but not as big as the webbook thing |
| 05:03.36 | rev | still pocketable |
| 05:04.06 | raster | hmm |
| 05:04.10 | raster | 206mhz arm etc.? |
| 05:04.31 | raster | aaaah |
| 05:04.36 | raster | japanese jobbie |
| 05:04.39 | raster | :) |
| 05:04.42 | rev | not the sigmarion iii i'm getting |
| 05:04.47 | rev | that has a 400 mhz pxa255 |
| 05:04.52 | rev | but the webbook is the slower one |
| 05:05.31 | raster | i'm still quite taken by my clie |
| 05:05.48 | raster | still think it shits on most stuff just in terms of industrial design alone |
| 05:06.26 | rev | which clie? |
| 05:06.33 | raster | nx80v |
| 05:06.35 | W8TVI | not much to it |
| 05:07.22 | rev | ahh |
| 05:07.24 | rev | so a badass clie |
| 05:07.30 | raster | yeah |
| 05:07.30 | rev | i've half considered getting one of those |
| 05:07.33 | raster | is only 200mhz arm |
| 05:07.37 | raster | ok not 400mhz xscale |
| 05:07.41 | rev | though not until POS 6 |
| 05:07.41 | raster | byt keyboard, 1.3mpixel camera |
| 05:07.44 | raster | cf and ms slot |
| 05:07.48 | rev | meh sthat's still pretty fast |
| 05:07.48 | raster | 320x480 16bpp screen |
| 05:07.51 | rev | yup |
| 05:08.02 | rev | but no multitasking |
| 05:08.04 | raster | its ONLY downfall is no built-in 802.11 |
| 05:08.14 | raster | i personalyl prefer the vertical profile ofr pdas |
| 05:08.20 | raster | not the mini-laptop style like c700 |
| 05:08.23 | raster | or sony ux50 |
| 05:08.27 | raster | etc. |
| 05:08.29 | raster | yeah |
| 05:08.36 | raster | palmos is pretty primitive |
| 05:08.40 | raster | i've been looking at it |
| 05:08.45 | raster | its hell on earth to port to |
| 05:08.49 | raster | especially if your lib is large |
| 05:08.55 | raster | (ie > 64k of code) |
| 05:09.02 | raster | and relies on otehr libs |
| 05:09.04 | raster | liek freetype |
| 05:09.09 | raster | or libpng libjpeg etc. |
| 05:09.23 | rev | yeah |
| 05:09.25 | rev | that's what blows |
| 05:09.33 | raster | http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=S8TdhG5ORhndpFHrqUrXjyFC9719ZHcGTiU=?CategoryName=hp_Multimedia&ProductSKU=PEGNX80VKIT1&Dept=hp |
| 05:09.38 | rev | and another reason i don't need- because my PDA would have to run Squeak Smalltalk and POS definately can't |
| 05:09.41 | raster | but the hardware is sweet |
| 05:09.44 | raster | let down by the os |
| 05:10.00 | rev | i prefer something that can convert between mini-laptop and a vertical style |
| 05:10.03 | rev | well |
| 05:10.06 | rev | if i could have anything |
| 05:10.16 | rev | rather |
| 05:10.19 | rev | if i had to have one or the other |
| 05:10.29 | raster | yeah |
| 05:10.34 | raster | but generalyl your stuck one or the other |
| 05:10.37 | rev | i'd take a palm/vertical style one, but only if it was running something like WinCE so i could have real HWR |
| 05:10.42 | raster | the whoel flip and sqivel scree goes a logn way |
| 05:10.44 | rev | and not shitty character recognition like on the zaurus |
| 05:10.48 | rev | yeah |
| 05:10.49 | rev | it does |
| 05:10.51 | raster | to address keyboard vs just screen/pad |
| 05:11.20 | raster | but your still stuck there as to is it laptop or portrait style |
| 05:11.28 | raster | there is gets tough i guess |
| 05:11.35 | raster | they coudl hve a rotatable keyboard inset |
| 05:11.54 | raster | they'd have to get imaginative to do both |
| 05:11.57 | raster | but yeah |
| 05:12.00 | rev | well |
| 05:12.03 | rev | check this out |
| 05:12.03 | raster | in general pda os's let the hardware down |
| 05:12.05 | rev | er |
| 05:12.08 | raster | the z is actually one of th ebetter |
| 05:12.11 | raster | err the better |
| 05:12.13 | rev | have you heard of the Nexio? |
| 05:12.13 | rev | well |
| 05:12.16 | rev | to me it's not |
| 05:12.19 | raster | nexio |
| 05:12.20 | raster | nup |
| 05:12.25 | rev | the software on the zaurus models are darn near depressing |
| 05:12.29 | rev | but anywho |
| 05:12.29 | rev | ok |
| 05:12.34 | raster | wel lso far palmos isnt that crash hot |
| 05:12.37 | rev | the nexio is a 800x480 vertical-style PDA |
| 05:12.56 | rev | http://www.dynamism.com/nexio/index.shtml |
| 05:12.57 | raster | and the apps often dont support extra cards well they dont hunt for files well - theysue fixed directories hard-coded in etc. |
| 05:13.01 | rev | not sure if they have many photos there |
| 05:13.06 | raster | i dont have much experience with ppc tho |
| 05:13.07 | rev | but they also have an attachable keyboard |
| 05:13.20 | rev | it's a decent kb, but not as nice as on the jornada 720 or the sigmarion iii, which both have touch typable keyboards |
| 05:13.38 | raster | i've dont work on a linux (then became wince) based 800x480 "web pad" pda before |
| 05:13.44 | raster | still have prototypes flaoting around |
| 05:14.00 | raster | it was curusoe based for a while |
| 05:14.10 | raster | arm ->curusoe->arm |
| 05:14.15 | rev | ah cool |
| 05:14.15 | raster | stayed @ 800x480 |
| 05:14.17 | raster | yeah |
| 05:14.23 | rev | my gf has a progear webpad |
| 05:14.25 | raster | thats looks remarkably simialr in design/style |
| 05:14.28 | rev | 1024x768, crusoe |
| 05:14.28 | raster | it still was big and chunky |
| 05:14.37 | raster | compared to even my chunkiest pda (my clie) |
| 05:15.25 | raster | i still think the ui's coudl do witha massive improvement for these little buggers |
| 05:15.31 | raster | especially wiht smart hpoens merging with pda's |
| 05:15.44 | W8TVI | looks like it'd be even bigger than the big (long) sony pdas |
| 05:15.45 | rev | i wish i could get a cellular data module for my PDA |
| 05:15.51 | rev | so i could be online anywhere |
| 05:15.54 | rev | but i don't want cell voice |
| 05:16.33 | raster | just want all of it |
| 05:16.34 | raster | in one |
| 05:16.41 | raster | so i dont have to carry around both pda and phone |
| 05:16.42 | raster | :) |
| 05:17.12 | raster | if i had somehting as powerful as my pda |
| 05:17.17 | raster | just with added phone stuff |
| 05:17.24 | raster | and good battery life |
| 05:17.30 | W8TVI | I want an OQO |
| 05:17.31 | raster | i'd be pretty happy |
| 05:17.33 | rev | i wouldn't mind having a seperate module |
| 05:17.38 | rev | but i odont' want a talkie phone |
| 05:17.40 | raster | sony do some of the best industrial design work for cases |
| 05:17.40 | rev | don't need it |
| 05:17.45 | rev | what would be perfect for me |
| 05:17.46 | raster | etc., |
| 05:17.53 | treke|laptop | I just dont see a phone and pda fitting well in the same form factor |
| 05:17.57 | raster | take sonys design, a good OS with a good ui |
| 05:18.01 | rev | is a little twice-tall matcbox little cellular module |
| 05:18.11 | rev | that just gave, via bt, net access to my PDA |
| 05:18.16 | rev | i wouldn't want it integrated |
| 05:18.34 | rev | not until things don't suck so bad in the world of cellular shit in the US |
| 05:18.35 | rev | ilike |
| 05:18.39 | raster | and some fast under-thebonnet hardware (400xscale, an actual gfx accelerator, not a gfx side-stepper like the ati a100) |
| 05:18.46 | raster | a dsp for mp3 decodintg |
| 05:18.52 | rev | if i wanted to change providers, i wouldn't wantt to have to buy a new whole PDA, maybe getting a crappier one |
| 05:19.11 | raster | (the clie si sweet 25-30 hrs of mp3 playing on battery - beats the pants of any other pda i've seen in terms of playtime) |
| 05:19.23 | raster | (thanks to dsp doing the work and cpu going to sleep) |
| 05:19.24 | raster | :) |
| 05:19.26 | rev | the ati w100 imageon in the zaurus wouldn't be so bad if they actually used the freaking thing's feeatures |
| 05:20.35 | raster | rev: well i'd advocate a gsm/gprs based one. if triband it'd work in the us and outside of it. u'd need to go pacbell or a gsm/gprs based provider in the us - but then u'd also have freedom of provider with a sim card and be able to travel the world too. |
| 05:20.53 | W8TVI | so how do the zurii put things on the display? they dont have a GPU do they? |
| 05:21.04 | raster | rev: my understanding is many of its features are slower than using the cpu cause of limited bandwidth to the chip |
| 05:21.25 | raster | W8TVI: in generaly its pretty brain-dead. dumb framebuffer. most pdas are that way. |
| 05:21.29 | treke|laptop | W8TVI: the new ones use an ati chip. the old ones didnt have much of anything. |
| 05:21.36 | rev | yeah |
| 05:21.42 | rev | the c7x0 have a fancy "GPU" |
| 05:21.46 | rev | it's no voodoo5 or anything no |
| 05:21.51 | raster | W8TVI: just a memeory reagon of N bytes that map to the pixels on the screen. write there and pixels appear depending what bytes u set to what values :) |
| 05:21.54 | rev | but it can do MPEG4/AAC/JPEG decoding in hardware |
| 05:22.15 | rev | though there is no way to use that support |
| 05:22.15 | rev | until sharp gives us a library or those ati assholes give us specs |
| 05:22.48 | rev | i wish the zaurus didn't take so much time to "warm up" when i hit the button |
| 05:22.50 | raster | rev: all u really need is yuv(a) support with scaling rgb(a) with scaling, composition (with alpha) and maybe motion compensation for yuv surfaces and u'd have a prety sweet embedded gfx chip |
| 05:22.57 | rev | the longer i have it the more freaking annoying that little feature is |
| 05:23.03 | rev | raster: totally |
| 05:23.31 | raster | rev: some peole think u want full3d opengl, imho thats overkill. u can get away with tonnes just with that limtied set and it's be cheap on $ and power to impliment |
| 05:24.01 | raster | (which are still the main factors of a pda) |
| 05:24.46 | W8TVI | I'd pay $1000 for a sl-6000 if it had a full 3D GPU with open GL support |
| 05:24.54 | rev | meh |
| 05:25.01 | rev | full 3d opengl will come in time i'm sure |
| 05:25.06 | rev | i don't want or need that myself |
| 05:25.12 | rev | i'd be fine with just a really-ass-fast fb |
| 05:25.13 | rev | :) |
| 05:26.02 | raster | rev: same. i just would like someone to get the 2d subset of image scaling and blending and yuv right first. that'll cover photo browsing your digital camera images, playing videos, the generla ui niceness and simple old-fashioned games to a TEA |
| 05:26.07 | rev | yeah |
| 05:26.08 | rev | exactly |
| 05:26.16 | raster | it'd be cheap and lean on power |
| 05:26.24 | raster | u can do a tonne of 3d via that too |
| 05:26.52 | raster | W8TVI: unfortunately in this day that woudl also mean about 10 seconds of battery life :) |
| 05:27.15 | raster | u coudl do a lot of opengl by having he cpu prepare pixel spans |
| 05:27.15 | W8TVI | the 5500 is almost fast enough for it |
| 05:27.25 | raster | then passing it to the image scaler/blender to composite |
| 05:27.50 | raster | W8TVI: that depends how comlpex u want to get :o) |
| 05:28.21 | W8TVI | some times I can get a video to run full 30 frames with out skipping frames |
| 05:29.19 | raster | the real problem there is also u want cpu to SPARE |
| 05:29.22 | raster | to do other things |
| 05:29.31 | raster | like maybe cmposite something on top |
| 05:29.38 | raster | handle other tasks |
| 05:29.44 | raster | run oher parts of the system etc. |
| 05:29.55 | raster | like if the video was part of a "game" |
| 05:30.00 | rev | yeah |
| 05:30.01 | raster | it'd be just part of what the game engine has to do |
| 05:30.04 | W8TVI | I'd like to see a 1ghz transmedia in a zaurus |
| 05:30.09 | raster | it'd need to do AI decisions |
| 05:30.13 | raster | handle maybe network protocol |
| 05:30.24 | raster | while deocding a comrpessed data chunk of the next stage of the game |
| 05:30.28 | raster | u want SPARE cpu |
| 05:30.32 | W8TVI | :) |
| 05:30.47 | raster | grunt per watt of power use awards go to ARM hands-down |
| 05:31.11 | raster | what the arm needs is some "mmx" like extensions |
| 05:31.15 | raster | i heard some where coming |
| 05:31.16 | W8TVI | well give me a 1ghz ARM cpu then |
| 05:31.18 | treke|laptop | transmedia or transmeta? |
| 05:31.18 | raster | that'd help tonnes |
| 05:31.30 | raster | W8TVI: give ti a bit. i'm sure they will get to 800mhz in not to long |
| 05:31.35 | W8TVI | heh |
| 05:31.38 | raster | give yourself that |
| 05:31.46 | raster | plus arms' nice bit shift WHILE add or move |
| 05:31.50 | raster | and soem mmx SIMD like ops |
| 05:31.51 | treke|laptop | a transmeta would probably last about 20 minutes on a zaurus battery :p |
| 05:32.00 | raster | and u'd be doing video and other things a lot more smoothly |
| 05:32.18 | raster | let the gfx layer (ati w100 or whatever) handle scalign and compositing |
| 05:32.24 | raster | YUV to RGB (and reverse) |
| 05:32.50 | raster | the arm is an amizngly lean (power-wise) design for a cpu |
| 05:32.53 | raster | its impressive |
| 05:32.59 | treke|laptop | Things would be better now if people did better with software |
| 05:33.09 | raster | its liek the old days of amiga, c64, atarist etc. |
| 05:33.16 | rev | perhaps |
| 05:33.20 | raster | peoelps just squeeze their progrsm to fit withint the form factor |
| 05:33.21 | rev | but no one wants to code like that anymore |
| 05:33.28 | rev | but still |
| 05:33.30 | raster | i know |
| 05:33.33 | rev | there is a happy medium |
| 05:33.34 | rev | i mean shit |
| 05:33.36 | raster | but it basically forces u to think twice |
| 05:33.42 | raster | ona desktop u can throw grunt at the problem |
| 05:33.47 | raster | where u have battery u cant |
| 05:33.52 | treke|laptop | I mean, look at what was done with the palm. |
| 05:33.52 | rev | the simple character recognition i have for Dynapad is faster and more accurate than the shit on qtopia |
| 05:33.55 | raster | yesh thereis a happy medium |
| 05:34.01 | rev | and this is written in smalltalk, a bytecode compiled language |
| 05:34.04 | rev | vs a C++ app |
| 05:34.08 | raster | but imho it still swings too much to the "fuck efficiency " side |
| 05:34.14 | rev | and the c++ system should be faster, being native code and all |
| 05:34.16 | raster | especialyl with java et. al. |
| 05:34.18 | rev | but somehow they managed to screw it up |
| 05:34.23 | rev | yeah, PalmOS and NewtonOS are great examples |
| 05:34.29 | rev | they both do a lot in little space |
| 05:34.35 | raster | yup |
| 05:34.37 | rev | hell, even WinCE itself does a decent job of beign small and doing a fair amount |
| 05:34.42 | treke|laptop | They were able to pull off most of what the zaurus can do with a 16mhz cpu and 8 meg of ram |
| 05:34.50 | rev | but the apps for it tend to have a similar attitude as desktop Windows apps- be bloated |
| 05:35.01 | rev | but some are very good, but you get that on any platform |
| 05:35.03 | raster | thats a shame imho |
| 05:35.07 | rev | and hell |
| 05:35.13 | rev | the newton did almost all that a freaking desktop can do |
| 05:35.15 | treke|laptop | opie is doing the same thing unfortunatly |
| 05:35.19 | rev | with 8 MB of flash ROM |
| 05:35.23 | treke|laptop | "lets keep adding features" |
| 05:35.26 | rev | and about 640K of "RAM" |
| 05:35.43 | raster | i dont mind ram and flash being used |
| 05:35.45 | rev | any other memmory in a Newton unit goes to user data storage- documents, etc |
| 05:35.49 | raster | good use mroe ram and flahs |
| 05:35.53 | raster | but give me something in return |
| 05:36.10 | rev | and on this 25 MHz ARM5 CPU in the eMate next to me, i can do real freaking handwriting recognition |
| 05:36.11 | raster | if the thnig suddenyl dances with a 3d rendered textures ui 2 60fps |
| 05:36.12 | rev | words and sentances |
| 05:36.14 | raster | err @ 60fps |
| 05:36.15 | rev | not freaking chracters |
| 05:36.22 | rev | and it does it with 99% accuracy |
| 05:36.23 | raster | i might fogvie them using a fair bit of cpu and ram |
| 05:36.23 | raster | :) |
| 05:36.26 | rev | on a slow ass CPU |
| 05:36.37 | rev | butfreaking sharp and trooltech can't get just simple letters right |
| 05:36.47 | raster | a lot of features really cost more than they are worth imho |
| 05:36.55 | rev | but that's the thing |
| 05:36.57 | rev | they don't have to cost that much |
| 05:37.01 | raster | rev: its not sharp - just troll i think |
| 05:37.02 | rev | they could use a lot less resources |
| 05:37.06 | rev | and do the same thing |
| 05:37.09 | W8TVI | can't beat a palm app that only uses 80-120k for something that takes close to a meg on most other OSs |
| 05:37.13 | raster | but its not as easy as topic to handle well |
| 05:37.16 | rev | yeah, hence my saying "sharp and trooltech [sp]" |
| 05:37.17 | raster | very fuzzy |
| 05:37.26 | rev | and most software for the NEwton too was all written in a bytecode-compiled language |
| 05:37.35 | raster | W8TVI: yeah. its pretty lean. |
| 05:37.39 | rev | but even on an old 25 MHz ARM5 cpu neats out the native code C++ shit on the zaurus |
| 05:37.46 | rev | i mean, simple comparison: |
| 05:37.52 | rev | memory usage on boot |
| 05:38.00 | W8TVI | of course, pamlos has a simple ui too... |
| 05:38.02 | raster | rev: one reason i HATE java |
| 05:38.03 | rev | my zaurus c760 running linux and stock sharp rom- 18 MB used on boot (!) |
| 05:38.08 | rev | raster: no, you didn't get what i said |
| 05:38.11 | raster | no just thats omeone is deciding to put yet another slwo layer in betwene |
| 05:38.17 | raster | java programmers are never taught performance |
| 05:38.21 | rev | yeah |
| 05:38.22 | raster | (well rarely) |
| 05:38.26 | rev | indeed |
| 05:38.31 | raster | they are told how to wrap things 20 classes down |
| 05:38.37 | rev | well |
| 05:38.38 | rev | and worse |
| 05:38.40 | raster | and all about their wonderful objects |
| 05:38.42 | rev | write horrible algorithms |
| 05:38.48 | rev | objects can be wonderful |
| 05:38.48 | treke|laptop | rev: that's partially hardware |
| 05:38.49 | rev | but like anything |
| 05:38.51 | rev | must be used appropriately |
| 05:39.03 | raster | never realising how much impact that all has through every layer down to an interpreted system then eventually on what is not really that fast a cpu and memory system. |
| 05:39.04 | rev | treke|laptop: the newton doesn't have custom bytecode hardware |
| 05:39.07 | rev | er |
| 05:39.12 | rev | do you mean the zuaurs? |
| 05:39.15 | treke|laptop | yes |
| 05:39.31 | treke|laptop | one of the things with NAND flash is that you can't excute out of it. |
| 05:39.36 | rev | my Jornada 720 (well, ex-j720) runs WInCE and boots a full win95 ish desktop (not that anyone wants that! :P) into like 2-3 MB of RAM |
| 05:40.00 | rev | hell, in 16 MB of Flash, it has an office suite, web browser, etc etc- why the hell does win95 need 200 MB of disk space to do relatively not that much more? |
| 05:40.03 | treke|laptop | On pocketpc for example you also lose about 16 mb of ram. |
| 05:40.10 | rev | yeah |
| 05:40.12 | rev | that sucks |
| 05:40.15 | rev | PalmOS does that well |
| 05:40.21 | rev | being able to execute straight out like that |
| 05:40.23 | treke|laptop | palmos would have the same problem |
| 05:40.23 | W8TVI | win95 can boot and run stuff from a 4-8mb download |
| 05:40.30 | rev | perhaps |
| 05:40.46 | rev | but that doesn't include IE and an office suite, and all networking tools, PIM suite, email app, etc etc |
| 05:40.46 | W8TVI | minimal windows distro :) |
| 05:40.54 | rev | i'm not talking about how tiny you can get it |
| 05:41.00 | rev | you could get WinCE into a 2 MB ROM |
| 05:41.04 | rev | that just booted into the desktop, no apps |
| 05:41.05 | ChipX86 | that's true, but at least win95 looks damn good |
| 05:41.10 | rev | but that is irrelevant |
| 05:42.09 | W8TVI | seeing that you can get a "full" linux setup in 16mb of rom isn't nothing to sneeze at |
| 05:42.19 | W8TVI | "full" = useable |
| 05:42.23 | rev | what is a "full" setup? |
| 05:42.26 | rev | usable for what? |
| 05:42.29 | W8TVI | flash rom |
| 05:42.42 | treke|laptop | you could get a usable linux in 2mb also. |
| 05:42.51 | treke|laptop | or whatever it is a palm 3 has in it |
| 05:42.54 | rev | you certainly couldn't fit abi word, x11, linux, a web browser, email client, PIM utlities, desktop system, window manager, some games, ... |
| 05:43.15 | rev | not abiword specifically i don't mean obviously |
| 05:43.17 | rev | that would be cheating |
| 05:43.18 | W8TVI | as soon as I get my old XT up and running, I'm going to find a linux to run on it |
| 05:43.47 | rev | haha |
| 05:43.50 | rev | you can't |
| 05:43.50 | rev | per se |
| 05:43.53 | rev | you have to run ELKS |
| 05:43.53 | W8TVI | its a ibm 5160 |
| 05:44.00 | rev | 8086 doesn't do real linux |
| 05:44.01 | rev | no mmu |
| 05:44.14 | treke|laptop | W8TVI: linux doesnt run on anything older than a 386 :) |
| 05:44.16 | rev | but DOS or minix would probably be a lot more fruitful |
| 05:44.19 | rev | well |
| 05:44.27 | rev | some half-brain dead form of linux will run on something older |
| 05:44.33 | rev | just like it runs on a dragonball |
| 05:50.14 | W8TVI | http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/gallante/ibmcpu/5160.html |
| 05:51.14 | raster | poor dragonball |
| 05:51.18 | raster | poor 68k |
| 05:51.21 | raster | such a nice cpu |
| 05:51.30 | raster | died such a nasty death :( |
| 05:51.31 | treke|laptop | rev: so, we getting closer to a release? |
| 05:51.50 | rev | actually |
| 05:51.52 | rev | yeS! |
| 05:51.56 | rev | i shold set a freaking date |
| 05:51.59 | rev | and have you crack the whip |
| 05:52.00 | treke|laptop | good. Your running out of time. |
| 05:52.05 | rev | until what? |
| 05:52.09 | rev | qtopia catches up? |
| 05:52.10 | W8TVI | this XT is a blazing fast 4.77Mhz |
| 05:52.15 | treke|laptop | you said you'd have a release out in time for my birthday :p |
| 05:52.21 | rev | when is it?? |
| 05:52.24 | treke|laptop | 22nd |
| 05:52.27 | raster | rev: what u releasing? |
| 05:52.31 | rev | of nov or oct? |
| 05:52.36 | rev | er nov or dec |
| 05:52.38 | treke|laptop | nov. |
| 05:53.07 | rev | treke|laptop: thqat's the day after my bro's birthday; and the day after my gf's and my aniversary |
| 05:53.20 | rev | raster: i have a project called Dynapad- a new PDA OS/OE written in Squeak Smalltalk |
| 05:53.24 | rev | squeak = http://www.squeak.org |
| 05:53.28 | rev | dynapad = http://spe.sf.net |
| 05:53.32 | treke|laptop | rev: hehe |
| 05:53.44 | rev | and |
| 05:53.49 | rev | some new dynapad screenshots = http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/squeak/dynapad/ |
| 05:54.48 | raster | rev: dynapad looks pretty bland :) also 480x640 :) |
| 05:55.09 | raster | rev: built on qtopia or on x or something else? |
| 05:55.48 | treke|laptop | squeak |
| 05:56.34 | rev | yeah |
| 05:56.38 | rev | squeak = http://squeak.org |
| 05:56.42 | rev | though it can run on qtopia or x |
| 05:56.47 | raster | aaah |
| 05:56.49 | raster | yeah |
| 05:56.54 | raster | so it runs on whatever is thwere? |
| 05:57.13 | rev | in addition to the fb, sdl, etc; also windows CE, 9x/ME/NT/2k/XP, Mac OS classic and OS X, Acorn RiscOS, any reasonable Unix with X11 |
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| 05:57.30 | rev | well |
| 05:57.35 | rev | it may be bland yeah, but you're the E guy |
| 05:57.37 | rev | of course it is |
| 05:57.40 | raster | hehehehe |
| 05:57.43 | rev | i'm after functionality not flashiness |
| 05:57.44 | rev | although |
| 05:57.49 | raster | bugger |
| 05:57.54 | raster | useless to me then :) hhehehehehehehehehehe |
| 05:57.54 | rev | i am working on a badass clone of Apple's expose |
| 05:58.01 | rev | which is kind of flashy, although not in the E way |
| 05:58.13 | rev | but to treke, even the transluceny was too flashy |
| 05:58.13 | rev | hehe |
| 05:58.16 | treke|laptop | all the squeek shit I've seen looks like it was designed by a blind man in a paint store |
| 05:58.24 | rev | haha |
| 05:58.25 | rev | yeah |
| 05:58.41 | rev | but it doesn'thave to |
| 05:58.48 | treke|laptop | "lets make this window blue and this one pink" |
| 05:58.49 | rev | i think they'll be adopting something a little better looking |
| 05:58.59 | W8TVI | its fun running windows 3.1 on a 286 with only 4 mb of ram |
| 05:59.01 | rev | different window colors are nice when you have a lot open |
| 05:59.02 | rev | although |
| 05:59.08 | rev | they do pick some bright, pastel colors |
| 05:59.10 | rev | which is not my thing |
| 05:59.19 | raster | i think they just want to show off they have color at all |
| 05:59.20 | raster | :) |
| 05:59.20 | rev | but this is what my desktop setup looks(ed) like |
| 05:59.22 | rev | http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/squeak/dynapad/ |
| 05:59.35 | rev | and that isn't as whacky looking at all |
| 05:59.43 | rev | it is boring though, but it's what i like |
| 05:59.45 | raster | nah thats much more conservative |
| 05:59.50 | raster | :) |
| 05:59.59 | rev | any wonder that on linux i use ion and not enlightenment :P |
| 06:00.05 | rev | but you could use any icewm theme with it |
| 06:00.06 | raster | hehehe |
| 06:00.09 | raster | thats cool |
| 06:00.11 | rev | that's just the one i use |
| 06:00.19 | raster | everyone deserves a xchoice |
| 06:00.21 | rev | it's completely cross-platform, binary and source wise |
| 06:00.22 | treke|laptop | I think desktops should be any color you want as long as it's gray |
| 06:00.28 | rev | haha |
| 06:00.29 | raster | i'm unhappiest when they have none |
| 06:00.29 | raster | :) |
| 06:00.50 | rev | that is why i am a squeak user, and the point of dynapad- giving me (and any users) choice in everything |
| 06:00.55 | rev | but not like it is in most X setups |
| 06:01.01 | rev | where too much choice cripples the system |
| 06:01.06 | rev | a reasonable set of defaults |
| 06:01.19 | rev | but the power to change it all is there without having to write 1000 LOC of C++ |
| 06:01.34 | treke|laptop | so squeak users are lazy |
| 06:01.46 | raster | hehehehehehahahahahahahha |
| 06:02.26 | rev | heh |
| 06:02.32 | rev | laziness is a good thing |
| 06:02.35 | rev | well |
| 06:02.39 | rev | there are two kinds of laziness |
| 06:02.44 | rev | optimization laziness |
| 06:02.45 | treke|laptop | hell, that's the whole point of spending all this time writing junk, so we dont have to do it by hand |
| 06:02.49 | rev | and stupid laziness |
| 06:02.55 | rev | exactly treke! |
| 06:03.07 | treke|laptop | well that and to be able to afford dinner |
| 06:03.12 | rev | i use a system that gives me more results for my time, energy and cost |
| 06:03.13 | rev | mmm |
| 06:03.14 | rev | dinner |
| 06:03.22 | rev | my gf made some tasty chicken soup |
| 06:03.34 | rev | there is the kind of laziness where a person just wants to do *nothing* |
| 06:03.47 | rev | but my kind of laziness is that i want to do it all, but not waste time doing it in a retarded way |
| 06:03.58 | rev | and squeak and dynapad fit in well there :) |
| 06:04.02 | rev | it's nice |
| 06:04.04 | rev | it's funny actually |
| 06:04.08 | rev | she is not domestic at all |
| 06:04.12 | rev | i do most of the cleaning and stuff |
| 06:04.19 | rev | and as her mom said once |
| 06:04.26 | rev | "she will make a good husband someday" |
| 06:04.29 | rev | but |
| 06:04.30 | rev | er |
| 06:04.37 | rev | and she hates to cook for hreself, i usually end up doing it |
| 06:04.50 | rev | but she apparently love sto cook for me |
| 06:04.52 | raster | i wish i had brain-dump coding |
| 06:04.52 | rev | if it beneifts me |
| 06:05.00 | raster | i normally code half the stuff in my head first |
| 06:05.10 | rev | and her, becuase she eats more healthily- i'm not complainging |
| 06:05.16 | rev | i'd rather have a MIDI port on my head |
| 06:05.17 | raster | then finally when i'm happy with desing and some nice routines i've thought up it'll start bcoming text... |
| 06:05.24 | rev | that would own above all |
| 06:05.28 | treke|laptop | I need a terminal in the shower |
| 06:05.28 | raster | i'd liek a straiht brain to C/ASM interface |
| 06:05.33 | raster | without need of fingers |
| 06:05.34 | raster | :) |
| 06:05.36 | raster | or voice |
| 06:05.37 | raster | :) |
| 06:05.45 | rev | i bring my PDA to the shitter a lot |
| 06:05.53 | rev | and sometimes i read when i'm drying off |
| 06:05.55 | rev | using the PDA |
| 06:05.57 | rev | but neverinto the shower |
| 06:05.59 | rev | perhaps i should try |
| 06:06.05 | rev | although with my helio, not zaurus or sig3 :) |
| 06:06.06 | raster | hehehehehe |
| 06:06.08 | raster | Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. |
| 06:06.13 | raster | purple smoke gone |
| 06:06.14 | raster | :) |
| 06:06.16 | rev | heh |
| 06:06.19 | treke|laptop | I don't come up with solutions on the shitter too often. I'm usually concentrating on the task at hand |
| 06:06.26 | raster | you will lose the magic purple smoke that drives all electronics |
| 06:06.26 | raster | :) |
| 06:06.40 | rev | i'd guess i've written at least a couple percent of the code in dynapad while on the pot at home or school |
| 06:06.43 | rev | wich is disturbing |
| 06:06.49 | raster | i normaly dont spend enuf time on the shitter to even think about what else i'd do |
| 06:06.49 | rev | i don't release that statistic offen |
| 06:06.53 | raster | sit down |
| 06:06.54 | raster | do job |
| 06:06.56 | raster | get up |
| 06:06.57 | raster | wipe |
| 06:06.58 | rev | if i had GPS i'd record all of that kind of information |
| 06:06.58 | raster | flush |
| 06:06.59 | raster | leave |
| 06:07.01 | rev | see |
| 06:07.01 | rev | not me |
| 06:07.02 | rev | well |
| 06:07.07 | treke|laptop | the shower and in the car is where I usually get my answers |
| 06:07.07 | rev | i will if i am in a hurry |
| 06:07.14 | raster | and very little time for each step in the pipeline |
| 06:07.15 | raster | :) |
| 06:07.18 | rev | i go in, sit down, read, poop, read read, pee, read |
| 06:07.21 | rev | i read when pissing |
| 06:07.28 | rev | although i only get a page in usually |
| 06:07.33 | rev | but i don't take more time in that case |
| 06:07.35 | ljp | oohh, kopete irc has 'translate' plugin |
| 06:07.37 | rev | i just prop it up and read |
| 06:08.10 | raster | i think we're getting into too much detail here |
| 06:08.10 | raster | :) |
| 06:08.30 | rev | well |
| 06:08.31 | rev | perhaps |
| 06:10.31 | treke|laptop | is opie.de still alive |
| 06:10.40 | ljp | heck if I know |
| 06:10.46 | ljp | never been there |
| 06:11.02 | ljp | they all speak German there for some reason |
| 06:11.08 | treke|laptop | rev: you've brought the mental image of me standing in the bathroom holding my pda in my left hand and my zaurus in my right and whistling. |
| 06:11.33 | rev | hahahaha |
| 06:11.38 | rev | it's fun |
| 06:11.39 | rev | try it treke |
| 06:11.43 | rev | what i do |
| 06:11.46 | ChipX86 | *shudder* |
| 06:11.50 | rev | we have a towel rack that's above the toilet |
| 06:11.59 | rev | and the C760 has a perfect notch in it |
| 06:12.04 | rev | where the screen comes into the keyboard part |
| 06:12.20 | rev | so i prop it up on the wall, the bottom notch ditting into the towel rack |
| 06:12.33 | ljp | you read while you pee, that why your g-friend hates you for giving her sticky buns |
| 06:12.45 | rev | sticky buns? |
| 06:12.58 | ljp | buns = butt |
| 06:13.04 | rev | yeah, but sticky? |
| 06:13.08 | rev | are you impliying i piss on her butt? |
| 06:13.13 | ljp | no |
| 06:13.14 | rev | just fyi |
| 06:13.19 | rev | she isn't sitting on the toilet when i'm going |
| 06:13.27 | rev | i usually am not reading when im walking to the toilet |
| 06:13.31 | ljp | pissing on the seat makes it sticky |
| 06:13.34 | rev | i'm well aware of where i am and the whole i'm pissing into |
| 06:13.36 | rev | ohh |
| 06:13.40 | rev | i put the seat up, du |
| 06:13.41 | rev | er duh |
| 06:13.44 | rev | not hard :) |
| 06:13.47 | rev | and i have perfect aim |
| 06:13.51 | rev | its not like im listeing to mp3s |
| 06:13.52 | rev | and dancing |
| 06:13.55 | rev | and whipping the stream all over |
| 06:13.56 | treke|laptop | haha |
| 06:13.57 | ljp | cant help if you arent paying attention |
| 06:13.58 | rev | that would be gross |
| 06:13.59 | rev | i just go |
| 06:14.02 | raster | rev: admit it! you piss on your gf's bum! :):):) |
| 06:14.04 | raster | :) |
| 06:14.07 | treke|laptop | forgive him, he's australian |
| 06:14.07 | rev | whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzz |
| 06:14.21 | rev | raster: sometimes, but never with the PDA on, all of my attention goes to her |
| 06:14.32 | raster | HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH |
| 06:14.35 | treke|laptop | and once again, I must make with the eye gouging |
| 06:14.37 | raster | rotfl |
| 06:14.37 | raster | :) |
| 06:14.42 | rev | not really though |
| 06:15.43 | rev | damn! |
| 06:15.44 | rev | http://www.pocketloft.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1667 |
| 06:15.44 | rev | er |
| 06:15.45 | rev | sorry |
| 06:16.12 | rev | meant for a msg |
| 06:17.39 | rev | night all |
| 06:17.48 | raster | zzzzzzzzz |
| 06:17.50 | raster | ! |
| 06:17.50 | raster | :) |
| 06:18.05 | rev | i'm off to pee on my gfs bum^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H shower and go to bed |
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| 07:00.52 | ChipX86 | got a build of billiardz now that works in oz |
| 07:01.11 | treke|home | why didnt the old one work? |
| 07:01.11 | W8TVI | hmmm... |
| 07:01.23 | W8TVI | I"m not sure that my EGA monitor works... |
| 07:02.02 | ChipX86 | treke|home: the libpng that came with OZ and the libpng I built against were different. libpng will actually complain to stderr that the two versions are wrong and then fail |
| 07:02.08 | treke|home | ah |
| 07:02.17 | ChipX86 | I was staticly linking against SDL too. Now I just dynamically link |
| 07:02.26 | treke|home | hmmm sdl. |
| 07:02.40 | treke|home | your code smart enough to scale? |
| 07:02.50 | ChipX86 | nope |
| 07:03.01 | ChipX86 | maybe someday. Too many other projects :P |
| 07:03.05 | treke|home | damn. Since SDL now works on the c7x0 in opie :) |
| 07:03.10 | ChipX86 | :) |
| 07:03.13 | ChipX86 | I'd have to redo the graphics |
| 07:03.18 | ChipX86 | that'd be fun... *sigh* |
| 07:03.23 | treke|home | graphics suck. |
| 07:05.56 | treke|home | never enough time in the day |
| 07:06.47 | raster | scale pants |
| 07:07.10 | treke|home | no pants |
| 07:08.11 | raster | must do canvas server.... |
| 07:08.14 | raster | must must..... |
| 07:13.16 | ChipX86 | raster: go do the canvas server |
| 07:13.50 | ChipX86 | and write something so I can write edje files easier, so I can work on an edje-based UI for gaim |
| 07:14.08 | raster | ChipX86: it has actualyl been started |
| 07:14.10 | raster | just |
| 07:14.13 | raster | in skeleton |
| 07:14.25 | raster | edje alreayd supoprt CPP |
| 07:14.30 | raster | so #define |
| 07:14.35 | raster | all the handy macros u want |
| 07:14.35 | raster | :) |
| 07:14.44 | ChipX86 | sounds good |
| 07:15.02 | ChipX86 | looking forward to winter break. I'll actually have time to play with such things |
| 07:15.10 | raster | :):):):) |
| 07:15.12 | raster | excellent |
| 08:23.08 | count__ | has anyone got chess going on their Zaurus ? |
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| 13:53.02 | johnix | Hi |
| 13:53.27 | johnix | Is anybody else having trouble with Opie's "todolist" app? |
| 13:55.51 | MG_Tak | Define "trouble" |
| 13:56.56 | absentia | re |
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| 14:23.29 | johnix | MG_Tak: segfault on startup |
| 14:28.02 | MG_Tak | johnix: nope |
| 14:28.09 | johnix | as updated yesterday night from "testing", "stable" *and* "unstable" |
| 14:28.09 | MG_Tak | but then again, I don't use opie's todolist |
| 14:28.10 | MG_Tak | so.. :) |
| 14:28.14 | johnix | well... |
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| 16:14.11 | MG_Tak | hi ChipX86 |
| 16:14.22 | ChipX86 | hi |
| 16:14.32 | absentia | hey |
| 16:14.34 | absentia | what's edje ? |
| 16:15.02 | ChipX86 | http://www.enlightenment.org/pages/edje.html |
| 16:17.18 | absentia | ah, thanks |
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| 17:04.46 | absentia | ok |
| 17:04.52 | absentia | externe.net is on its last legs, I think |
| 17:04.55 | absentia | now getting sql errors |
| 17:04.57 | absentia | slow as hell. |
| 17:04.57 | absentia | etc. |
| 17:06.06 | absentia | haha |
| 17:06.15 | absentia | w8tvi with the last minute submissions to win 2nd place.... love it |
| 17:06.23 | absentia | er, third place |
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| 17:11.59 | absentia | hey xavier... |
| 17:12.27 | XavierXeon | hi |
| 17:13.17 | treke | anyone know of vendors inside the us that sell decent zaurus stylus's? |
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| 17:15.50 | treke | was going to order one from conics, but the shipping was 14 bucks on a 16 dollar item |
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| 17:28.53 | absentia | ouch |
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| 17:37.46 | raduga | hello zauroids |
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| 18:32.22 | P-Chan | What do you guys suggest i throw on my zaurus to keep me occupied on the 30 min long bus ride to college each day? |
| 18:32.35 | CdtDelta | nethack |
| 18:32.40 | Twiun | the word game |
| 18:32.46 | W8TVI | a bigger battery |
| 18:32.53 | kergoth | puzz-le, any of eongames.com's games |
| 18:33.08 | P-Chan | nethack was boring, as was the word game. No problems with the battery. |
| 18:33.19 | P-Chan | kergoth: I tried it, fun stuff...though the sound effects are kinda dumb. |
| 18:33.20 | Twiun | P-Chan: you don't enjoy playing scrabble? |
| 18:33.22 | ChipX86 | I'll throw in a vote for puzz-le too. Tickypip can also be fun :) |
| 18:33.31 | kergoth | </shameless plug> |
| 18:33.33 | Disconnect | www.baen.com free library |
| 18:33.33 | Twiun | ChipX86: how's billiards doing? |
| 18:33.36 | ChipX86 | :) |
| 18:33.38 | P-Chan | Twiun: Not really. |
| 18:33.45 | ChipX86 | Twiun: haven't worked on it much, though I put out a build yesterday that works on OZ |
| 18:33.48 | Twiun | P-Chan: ahh, that'd be your problem then :) |
| 18:35.07 | P-Chan | Twiun: hehe :-)( |
| 18:35.07 | kergoth | buzzword bingo is great for meetings, but i dunno about bus rides |
| 18:35.07 | kergoth | :) |
| 18:35.07 | Twiun | ChipX86: hmmm... play-by-beaming comes to mind for that game |
| 18:35.07 | ChipX86 | Twiun: let me know when the patch is ready ;) |
| 18:35.08 | P-Chan | kergoth: whats that? |
| 18:35.08 | Disconnect | btw snails rules, I had that for my ipaq. |
| 18:35.08 | Twiun | ChipX86: Lol, after I finish coding fbAWT |
| 18:35.08 | P-Chan | Disconnect: I hae the demo, also very fun :-) |
| 18:35.08 | Twiun | ChipX86: in 4 or 5 months... |
| 18:35.08 | kergoth | P-Chan: its bingo, but each square has a buzzword |
| 18:35.12 | kergoth | P-Chan: when someoen in the meeting says it, you X that box |
| 18:35.16 | P-Chan | kergoth: whats a buzzaword (<---swede) |
| 18:35.19 | P-Chan | ah |
| 18:35.21 | P-Chan | haha :-) |
| 18:35.39 | kergoth | you know, words marketing droids and the like add that dont mean much but management loves |
| 18:35.40 | Disconnect | P-Chan: eg 'synergy' |
| 18:36.32 | P-Chan | Any other things you guys got to suggest? |
| 18:36.33 | Twiun | P-Chan: Empowerment! |
| 18:36.50 | P-Chan | Twiun: Is that a game or another buzzword :) ? |
| 18:37.38 | Twiun | P-Chan: another meaningless managerial power-word |
| 18:37.47 | P-Chan | Twiun: ah, hehe :-) |
| 18:37.48 | kergoth | whats that game andyq used to work on |
| 18:37.50 | kergoth | sfcave |
| 18:37.51 | kergoth | thats right |
| 18:37.52 | raduga | if you find nethack boring, I would recommend rogue |
| 18:37.53 | kergoth | thats a good one |
| 18:38.07 | Twiun | P-Chan: game-wise, I got quite lot of playing out of the Bust'em game from eon as well |
| 18:38.17 | P-Chan | kergoth: I like sfcave...but it lacks variation |
| 18:38.19 | raduga | rogue is *way* more exciting than nethack, for sure. |
| 18:38.23 | kergoth | bust'em is seriously acxtion packed |
| 18:38.24 | kergoth | good game |
| 18:38.39 | P-Chan | is rouge free, and where can i get it? |
| 18:38.56 | kergoth | P-Chan: before asking here, hit zsi and look around |
| 18:38.57 | kergoth | heh |
| 18:39.13 | Twiun | yea, lots of games on ZSI |
| 18:39.28 | Twiun | I'd recommend against the java othello though... the AI is braindead ;) |
| 18:39.44 | Twiun | I coded it, so I'm in a position to know :) |
| 18:39.48 | kergoth | hey wow, an XM signal email newsletter didnt get marked as spam by spamassassin! |
| 18:39.57 | kergoth | thats the first one in a year of monthly letters i actually saw |
| 18:40.36 | raduga | kergoth: the spammers are getting smarter ;) |
| 18:41.11 | kergoth | nah, theres just less spam like crap in the letter for once |
| 18:41.18 | kergoth | only one "save blahblah $ on somethingorother" |
| 18:42.14 | kergoth | cool, paul vixie of vixie cron fame is on this ML |
| 18:43.13 | P-Chan | kergoth: also, when do you expect the next version of oz to come out? |
| 18:43.34 | P-Chan | also, i couldnt find rouge on zsi? |
| 18:43.40 | raduga | p-chan: real soon |
| 18:45.21 | kergoth | there is no timeline. the next release isnt even being worked on until the buildsystem transition is completed |
| 18:45.33 | kergoth | (although, a number of improvements are happening during the transition, since it was a good time) |
| 18:46.34 | Disconnect | too much embedded linux: http://www.gotontheinter.net/tivoweb-z.png |
| 18:46.58 | kergoth | theres no such as thing as too much embedded linux :) |
| 18:52.16 | Disconnect | heh |
| 18:52.20 | P-Chan | where can i find rouge for the Z? |
| 18:59.31 | *** join/#zaurus poo (~langfors@shields.experience.com) |
| 18:59.32 | Disconnect | P-Chan: rogue? ie nethack? or something else? |
| 19:06.49 | absentia | re |
| 19:07.01 | absentia | I wish there was a way to put in your own words for buzzword bingo |
| 19:07.07 | absentia | we have our own set of insanity here |
| 19:07.18 | absentia | I think that will be my first or seconf pyqt progie. |
| 19:07.40 | kergoth | absentia: thatd be cool |
| 19:07.55 | kergoth | quick little buzzword dictionary manipulator |
| 19:08.01 | absentia | yup |
| 19:09.13 | kergoth | does it have a seperate dictionary based on current language? |
| 19:09.20 | absentia | not sure |
| 19:09.22 | kergoth | s/m$// |
| 19:10.42 | absentia | m54.spy.org/zaurus/screenshots |
| 19:10.45 | absentia | for pics of nethack |
| 19:11.00 | kergoth | i've never actually played nethack |
| 19:11.01 | kergoth | should try it |
| 19:11.14 | absentia | well, it can go up to 32x32 in oz |
| 19:11.20 | absentia | but only 24x28 in sharp |
| 19:11.30 | absentia | if you set above 24 or 28 .... you get veritical lines |
| 19:11.42 | absentia | the interface is very nice on the zaurus ... because you just click. |
| 19:12.00 | kergoth | someone should make kbill more challenging |
| 19:12.04 | kergoth | its too easy with the stylus input |
| 19:12.05 | kergoth | :) |
| 19:12.07 | absentia | you don't have to learn letters on the screen or vi keys.. |
| 19:12.22 | absentia | my nethack is kind of lame now |
| 19:12.29 | absentia | I can't seem to make any progress in this game |
| 19:12.32 | absentia | and I can't seem to die |
| 19:12.35 | absentia | :-/ |
| 19:12.45 | *** join/#zaurus egon_Z (~zChat@pD9ECE669.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:12.59 | MG_Tak | hi kergoth |
| 19:13.04 | kergoth | hey MG_Tak |
| 19:13.38 | levi | I suck at nethack. I don't think I ever got past the mines. |
| 19:13.56 | absentia | my weapon is a blessed thoroughly corroded thoroughly rusted grased long sword |
| 19:13.56 | absentia | hehe |
| 19:14.33 | absentia | I'm invisible, jumpy (w/ tele control), very fast (valk l7 + speed boots) ... have 2 rings of regeneration and ring of cause conflict. |
| 19:15.18 | absentia | so |
| 19:15.22 | absentia | red hat linux is dead. |
| 19:15.23 | absentia | interesting. |
| 19:15.54 | treke | not dead, just changing licensing |
| 19:15.58 | absentia | changing name |
| 19:16.02 | absentia | "fedora" ? |
| 19:16.05 | treke | and names |
| 19:16.13 | treke | they still have the RedHat Server line. |
| 19:16.16 | absentia | but it's still a pretty major split... although it was probably already there. |
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| 19:30.38 | poo | go gentoo |
| 19:30.46 | absentia | heheh |
| 19:30.55 | poo | im serious |
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| 19:44.16 | treke | absentia: most people I've spoken with are planning on transitioning to debian :) |
| 19:44.57 | ChipX86 | there's always Fedora |
| 19:45.04 | ChipX86 | oh that was said |
| 19:45.16 | ChipX86 | absentia: Fedora is a different project. They started working closer with Red Hat |
| 19:45.19 | kergoth | whats that small console app for line wrapping text again? |
| 19:45.28 | treke | fmt? |
| 19:45.55 | kergoth | thatll do |
| 19:45.56 | kergoth | thanks |
| 19:46.05 | kergoth | i'm always using huge terminals, so my wrapping is always hokey |
| 19:46.20 | treke | probably not safe to run on code :p |
| 19:46.25 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:47.09 | treke | ChipX86: Funny thing is, Debian is basically the new redhat line with dpkg and no certification :) |
| 19:48.25 | absentia | right, but for ... uh... edgey PHBs... seeing "redhat is dead" is enough to scare'm. |
| 19:48.35 | ChipX86 | I still prefer the Red Hat/Fedora stuff, though I also use Debian. imho, distro wars suck, and thinking of them in terms of competition is pointless |
| 19:48.36 | absentia | ya, we want to run redhat enterprise anyway... but that's beside the issue. |
| 19:48.55 | absentia | chip: exactly. I think it should be 1 system, that people tailor... |
| 19:48.56 | treke | ChipX86: Right, I'm not thinking in terms of a distro war. |
| 19:48.56 | ChipX86 | Fedora is actually very nice. Much better than RH |
| 19:48.59 | absentia | instead of 12 systems that people tailor. |
| 19:49.01 | ChipX86 | treke: nod |
| 19:49.17 | W8TVI | Red Hat is dead! Long live Red Hat! |
| 19:49.18 | absentia | I mean, what *doesn't* netbsd "run" ? |
| 19:49.35 | absentia | it will be nice, in the future, when there is no longer the concept of an os or os war. |
| 19:50.26 | *** join/#zaurus addamgc22 (~User@ip68-105-32-80.br.no.cox.net) |
| 19:51.13 | kergoth | hey treke, any idea how to get mutt to call vim with wrapping at a specific width enabled, but not when vim is called outside of mutt? |
| 19:53.25 | treke | yup |
| 19:54.56 | kergoth | how? |
| 19:54.58 | kergoth | :) |
| 19:55.15 | treke | I'm trying to see if my server has booted yet so that I can check my muttrc :p |
| 19:56.02 | treke | kergoth: try set editor="vim" |
| 20:00.00 | TheMasterMind1 | editor="vim -u specialvimrcfile" |
| 20:00.12 | TheMasterMind1 | *shrug* |
| 20:00.37 | treke | vim does the right thing when it knows it's dealing with an email message. |
| 20:00.43 | treke | Wraps lines and syntax highlights |
| 20:02.51 | absentia | sounds like questions for a unix interview |
| 20:02.58 | absentia | does this app use EDITOR or VISUAL or something else? |
| 20:03.06 | absentia | PAGER |
| 20:03.06 | absentia | :-) |
| 20:06.14 | *** join/#zaurus tux_mike ([yy5GpsVJM@dsl081-228-056.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:12.00 | absentia | treke |
| 20:12.01 | absentia | ? |
| 20:12.37 | treke | oh you wanted to know whether it used EDITOR or VISUAl? |
| 20:12.59 | absentia | no, do you happen to have the url for the webcam / image of the ipaq/skiff cluster at handhelds.org? |
| 20:13.06 | absentia | I'm searching on the site, but not having much luck. |
| 20:13.24 | treke | http://www.handhelds.org/cam.html |
| 20:13.46 | absentia | thanks! |
| 20:19.03 | kergoth | treke: ah |
| 20:19.06 | kergoth | treke: thanks |
| 20:19.28 | absentia | 2/c |
| 20:19.36 | treke | it worked? |
| 20:20.40 | treke | iirc starting vim with vi is equivalent to calling vim -C |
| 20:20.44 | kergoth | hmm |
| 20:20.55 | kergoth | editor and EDITOR are both vim, its syntax highlighting, but not wrapping |
| 20:23.50 | treke | then try vim -c 'set tw=WIDTH' |
| 20:25.29 | treke | or you can change the settings for the mail filetype |
| 20:25.35 | kergoth | isnt tw tab width, not wrap width? |
| 20:25.48 | treke | textwidth |
| 20:25.52 | kergoth | hehe |
| 20:25.56 | kergoth | ah |
| 20:26.10 | treke | try upgrading your vim? |
| 20:26.16 | treke | your on redhat 7.3, right? |
| 20:26.20 | absentia | I use M-q in emacs |
| 20:26.23 | absentia | fill-region |
| 20:26.35 | absentia | I'm sure you could just map a key in vi(m) to do it. |
| 20:26.37 | kergoth | treke: nah, my mailserver is debian |
| 20:26.52 | treke | weird. so is mine |
| 20:27.57 | kergoth | err |
| 20:27.59 | kergoth | its working onw |
| 20:29.14 | absentia | what shell? didja export? :-> |
| 20:29.29 | kergoth | hehe. yeah, modified my bash_profile and manually sourced it in |
| 20:29.34 | kergoth | oh well, not going to complain |
| 20:30.00 | kergoth | the linux mime type handling is just a mess. |
| 20:30.01 | kergoth | its sad |
| 20:30.03 | kergoth | imho |
| 20:38.40 | *** join/#zaurus stew_b (~stew@csta-19158.communicomm.com) |
| 20:42.42 | *** join/#zaurus sleipnir (~buliwyf@p508C4D33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:51.42 | *** join/#zaurus buliwyf (~buliwyf@p508C4D33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:53.26 | buliwyf | re |
| 20:53.48 | buliwyf | how can i change the ftp password under OZ 3.2 with opie 1.0.2 ? |
| 20:59.37 | absentia | for the ftp account? |
| 20:59.47 | absentia | or for your user account (ie: zaurus or root?) |
| 21:01.49 | *** join/#zaurus rev|lib (rev@umd111-13.d.umn.edu) |
| 21:02.09 | buliwyf | ftp account |
| 21:02.43 | buliwyf | with opie 1.0.2 the pw für ftp is Qtopis but with this password intellisync is not working |
| 21:05.17 | kergoth | syncing is different |
| 21:05.22 | kergoth | you cant change it from the default of rootme |
| 21:05.27 | kergoth | which is whats needed for qtopia desktop and intellisync |
| 21:06.22 | buliwyf | what if i disable the default ftpd and install a diffrent one ? |
| 21:06.29 | kergoth | .. |
| 21:06.44 | kergoth | you cant disable the internal one |
| 21:07.02 | kergoth | well, you can twiddle security, but itll just close connections immediately, it still listens on that socket |
| 21:07.09 | kergoth | now, if your new one binds first, yeah, htat could work |
| 21:08.09 | buliwyf | mh why got the default ftp password changed ? |
| 21:08.16 | kergoth | huh? |
| 21:08.22 | kergoth | its always been rootme |
| 21:08.57 | buliwyf | i installed opie 1.0.2 on oz 3.2 and there it ist Qtopia :( |
| 21:09.13 | *** part/#zaurus __andras__ (~andras@client-5243-p1-sms.glfd.adsl.virgin.net) |
| 21:09.15 | kergoth | what? |
| 21:09.28 | kergoth | oz doesnt have qtopia in any version |
| 21:09.44 | buliwyf | the password is Qtopia |
| 21:10.03 | kergoth | in what version? |
| 21:10.09 | buliwyf | 1.0.2 |
| 21:10.14 | buliwyf | opie |
| 21:10.20 | buliwyf | and oz 3.2 |
| 21:10.20 | kergoth | odd. rootme should result in a popup on the Z |
| 21:10.25 | kergoth | asking if you want to accept hte connection |
| 21:10.35 | kergoth | could be they borked something when they merged in the new qtopia launcher stuff |
| 21:10.42 | kergoth | i'd email the opie list and ask about it |
| 21:10.45 | buliwyf | no root me just got a popup where i could deny the connections |
| 21:11.09 | kergoth | no accept button? |
| 21:11.13 | buliwyf | nope |
| 21:11.15 | kergoth | strange |
| 21:11.26 | kergoth | is your desktops ip within the range in the security app? |
| 21:11.32 | buliwyf | if i use Qtopia as password Accept is available |
| 21:12.01 | kergoth | k, i'd recommend emailing the opie lists asking whats up with that |
| 21:12.04 | kergoth | s/lists/list/ |
| 21:12.07 | kergoth | or ask in #opie |
| 21:12.09 | kergoth | or both |
| 21:12.58 | buliwyf | i'll try it thanks |
| 21:13.28 | kergoth | np |
| 21:34.51 | *** join/#zaurus buliwyf (~buliwyf@p508C4D33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:01.44 | *** join/#zaurus vvff (~victor@ip244.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com) |
| 22:01.45 | *** join/#zaurus buliwyf (~buliwyf@p508C4D33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:10.27 | *** join/#zaurus gerrynjr (~gerrynjr@h00a0cc36b102.ne.client2.attbi.com) |
| 22:10.58 | gerrynjr | offroadgeek[away> ping |
| 22:18.58 | buliwyf | does anybody sync outlook with qtopia desktop ? |
| 22:47.51 | *** join/#zaurus victorvdl (~victor@ip244.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com) |
| 23:11.14 | victorvdl | offroadgeek[away: ping? |
| 23:12.00 | gerrynjr | victorvdl> i pinged him a while ago.. he doesn't seem to be on |
| 23:12.17 | victorvdl | Oh. |
| 23:24.03 | *** join/#zaurus Luke-Jr (~luke-jr@ip68-9-81-231.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 23:26.38 | treke | nah, coincidence |
| 23:27.00 | kc8apf | anyone have experience with qpose? |
| 23:28.06 | victorvdl | kc8apf, Yeah. It doesn't work. |
| 23:28.13 | kc8apf | erm, ok |
| 23:28.49 | victorvdl | kc8apf: :-D |
| 23:32.45 | kc8apf | any palm emulator that does work? |
| 23:33.58 | kergoth | for what values of 'work'? |
| 23:34.22 | kc8apf | well, i only need to run one app |
| 23:34.26 | Disconnect | well that was exciting. opie-reader just 'locked' my space bar. (if you've ever wondered what happens when that occurs, its not pretty. and - unlike pc's - hitting space to ' |
| 23:34.36 | Disconnect | clear it up' (keydown/keyup) doesn't work for diddly. |
| 23:40.19 | *** join/#zaurus Scythe (~root@p50845FCE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:40.37 | Scythe | hi |
| 23:41.05 | *** part/#zaurus Scythe (~root@p50845FCE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:43.22 | *** join/#zaurus raster (~raster@adsl-60-232.swiftdsl.com.au) |
