irclog2html for #zaurus on 20031020

`00:02.41`	`*** join/#zaurus mewyn ([h8O9ZzK0z@dsl081-228-056.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`00:06.47`	`absentia`	`hi`
`00:15.27`	`MG_Tak`	`ChipX86: it'd be nice to have some 'message notification' thing in th blist view`
`00:15.29`	`*** join/#zaurus dub20 (~dub20@dsl3-63-249-66-30.cruzio.com)`
`00:15.29`	`absentia`	`hi`
`00:16.08`	`MG_Tak`	`and it'd be cool if the gaim icon in the taskbar at the bottom flashed.. :)`
`00:16.10`	`ChipX86`	`MG_Tak: there will be one. I just can't promise it right away`
`00:17.58`	`MG_Tak`	`ChipX86: I got faith and patience`
`00:18.46`	`MG_Tak`	`_`
`00:18.50`	`MG_Tak`	`oops`
`00:26.39`	`*** join/#zaurus rev (~Malkin@24-197-180-73.dul.mn.charter.com)`
`00:35.32`	`*** join/#zaurus br33zy (~br33zy@66-91-245-150.san.rr.com)`
`00:42.43`	`MG_Tak`	`ChipX86: the yahoo protocol windows may have something moe_re to do with not closing than other types`
`00:42.46`	`MG_Tak`	`not sure`
`00:47.35`	`*** join/#zaurus mspencer (~spam@michael.mspencer.net)`
`00:50.03`	`*** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-44c14684.dyn.optonline.net)`
`00:56.15`	`djk`	`www.zaurus.com/dev is slow as a dog lately`
`00:57.42`	`*** join/#zaurus mutexer (~spock@adsl-210-68-119.mem.bellsouth.net)`
`01:13.32`	`djk`	`anybody doing wep128 with dhcp on TCK rom?`
`01:23.26`	`absentia`	`argh`
`01:29.04`	`djk`	`absentia: argh on the wep128?`
`01:31.54`	`absentia`	`no`
`01:31.55`	`absentia`	`argh.`
`01:32.06`	`absentia`	`my sd blinked away when I was running a chroot os from the sd`
`01:32.15`	`absentia`	`the sd is unusable on the 760!`
`01:32.20`	`absentia`	`I'm getting pretty pissed.`
`01:44.06`	`*** join/#zaurus W8TVI\|z (~zic@1114104739.mi.dial.hexcom.net)`
`01:44.19`	`*** join/#zaurus UndrWater (newbie@cip-70-204.bbs.surfcity.net)`
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`01:57.55`	`absentia`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:16.11`	`UndrWater`	`missing an 'in'`
`02:18.51`	`absentia`	`re`
`02:20.28`	`rev`	`yo`
`02:20.32`	`absentia`	`y0`
`02:20.35`	`rev`	`WERD`
`02:20.42`	`absentia`	`rev: see my screenshots ?`
`02:20.47`	`rev`	`noooo`
`02:20.47`	`rev`	`where?`
`02:20.51`	`rev`	`oh what?`
`02:21.08`	`absentia`	`http://m54.spy.org/zaurus/screenshots/`
`02:22.29`	`rev`	`neato`
`02:22.34`	`UndrWater`	`nice`
`02:23.09`	`rev`	`check this out`
`02:23.13`	`rev`	`most disturbing`
`02:23.13`	`rev`	`but`
`02:23.22`	`rev`	`there's been rumors of a PocketPC device with a 640x480 screen`
`02:23.27`	`rev`	`and photos just popped up`
`02:23.31`	`rev`	`http://www.pocketloft.com/`
`02:23.57`	`rev`	`and not that unlikely, considering how ms finally took away that retaded restriction on the PocketPC spec, the need to have 240x320 screens`
`02:24.36`	`absentia`	`heheheh`
`02:24.52`	`UndrWater`	`purdy`
`02:26.22`	`absentia`	`I love the cpus ettings`
`02:26.26`	`absentia`	`400, 200 and 100 mhz`
`02:26.26`	`absentia`	`heheh`
`02:26.29`	`rev`	`yeah`
`02:26.37`	`rev`	`i almost said`
`02:26.41`	`rev`	`"i wish my zaurus had that"`
`02:26.43`	`rev`	`but then i realized`
`02:26.43`	`absentia`	`128mb ram, 32mb rom?`
`02:26.55`	`rev`	`if i underclocked my c760 to 100 mhz it'd be unusably slow :P`
`02:27.01`	`absentia`	`yup`
`02:27.07`	`rev`	`<taps opera icon>`
`02:27.09`	`rev`	`...`
`02:27.16`	`rev`	`<30 seconds later>`
`02:27.19`	`rev`	`poof`
`02:27.41`	`absentia`	`see the search for wireless pic ?`
`02:27.58`	`rev`	`mmhm`
`02:29.09`	`absentia`	`neat`
`02:29.14`	`absentia`	`I still like the zaurus.`
`02:31.05`	`rev`	`i do and i don't, i suppose`
`02:31.10`	`rev`	`hate the software :P`
`02:31.15`	`rev`	`but makes a great platform for my own :D`
`02:35.27`	`absentia`	`exactly`
`02:35.30`	`absentia`	`I just like the footprint`
`02:36.01`	`rev`	`not me, in a way`
`02:36.03`	`rev`	`that is`
`02:36.15`	`rev`	`the keyboard just kind of adds bulk but without too much benefit`
`02:36.26`	`rev`	`but then again, i'm used a device with a good keyboard`
`02:36.26`	`rev`	`or`
`02:36.37`	`rev`	`a device with no keyboard, buta good way to enter text that doesn't require a kb`
`02:36.49`	`rev`	`but for a linux device, the keyboard is pretty much an appreciated must`
`02:37.00`	`rev`	`(linux device = what we have now in the world of linux and qtopia)`
`02:41.53`	`absentia`	`yes`
`02:45.28`	`rev`	`ohhhhh`
`02:45.32`	`rev`	`idd it reformat fine?`
`02:45.49`	`absentia`	`newfs`
`02:45.50`	`absentia`	`many times`
`02:45.55`	`absentia`	`I found what caused the problems...`
`02:45.57`	`absentia`	`and how to fix them`
`02:46.04`	`absentia`	`and how to force files onto the beast.`
`02:46.09`	`absentia`	`I was up all night last night.`
`02:46.12`	`absentia`	`fixed most everything.`
`02:46.22`	`absentia`	`hence my screenshots...`
`02:46.59`	`*** join/#zaurus artifact_ (~paulroe@202-0-47-218.cable.paradise.net.nz)`
`02:50.14`	`rev`	`ahh`
`02:50.18`	`rev`	`what happened?`
`02:52.07`	`*** join/#zaurus SirPsycho (~sirpsycho@cs2416795-192.houston.rr.com)`
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`02:55.40`	`absentia`	`what happened where?`
`02:55.56`	`*** part/#zaurus stwizard-z (~zaurus@pool-68-161-22-169.ny325.east.verizon.net)`
`03:03.10`	`rev`	`to cause the corruption?`
`03:04.18`	`absentia`	`yup`
`03:11.16`	`rev`	`oi`
`03:11.16`	`rev`	`what`
`03:11.17`	`rev`	`ws`
`03:11.18`	`rev`	`er`
`03:11.20`	`rev`	`what was causing it?`
`03:11.26`	`rev`	`i'm asking you a question`
`03:11.29`	`rev`	`:P`
`03:11.43`	`*** join/#zaurus bugfixer (~bugfixer@42gis175.gulftel.com)`
`03:15.15`	`*** join/#zaurus Luke-Jr (~luke-jr@ip68-9-81-231.ri.ri.cox.net)`
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`03:48.45`	`treke\|home`	`rev: you should call it a qtopia device, not a linux device :)`
`03:48.53`	`rev`	`yup`
`03:48.54`	`rev`	`i know`
`03:49.04`	`treke\|home`	`there have been other linux pda environments :)`
`03:49.30`	`rev`	`yup`
`03:49.31`	`rev`	`i'm aware`
`03:49.37`	`rev`	`i figured from context it'd make sense enough`
`04:19.05`	`fliplap`	`yeah, remember pocketlinux? it actually looked _really_ good`
`04:20.50`	`*** join/#zaurus AbsentiaZ (~zaurus@207-237-66-188.c3-0.80w-ubr9.nyr-80w.ny.cable.rcn.com)`
`04:20.56`	`AbsentiaZ`	`re`
`04:21.45`	`treke\|home`	`I never actually used pocketlinux`
`04:22.01`	`treke\|home`	`by the time i was interested in trying it, the authors had closed sourced it`
`04:23.48`	`AbsentiaZ`	`who are you talking to?`
`04:23.56`	`treke\|home`	`fliplap`
`04:24.00`	`AbsentiaZ`	`ah`
`04:24.41`	`fliplap`	`yup`
`04:24.49`	`fliplap`	`i wanted to use it`
`04:24.50`	`AbsentiaZ`	`im in bed... wife's playing mahjongg on the 700 ... I have clasical coming in over zradio ... irc here ... and reading news in a browser`
`04:25.05`	`fliplap`	`might still be alive today were it open source`
`04:25.13`	`treke\|home`	`maybe`
`04:25.34`	`AbsentiaZ`	`treke: did you see, I finally got the sh!t going m54.spy.org/zaurus/screenshots`
`04:25.52`	`fliplap`	`i wonder what people use for a browser under gpe`
`04:25.58`	`treke\|home`	`fliplap: dillo`
`04:26.11`	`fliplap`	`dillo eh?`
`04:26.15`	`fliplap`	`any good?`
`04:26.22`	`treke\|home`	`it works`
`04:26.27`	`treke\|home`	`wouldn't call it good :)`
`04:26.38`	`fliplap`	`is there a mozilla port? :-)`
`04:26.47`	`fliplap`	`i crack me up`
`04:26.49`	`treke\|home`	`you could run mozilla on it`
`04:26.58`	`treke\|home`	`X is X :p`
`04:27.07`	`fliplap`	`and by the time i wake up tomorrow it might even have loaded`
`04:28.47`	`treke\|home`	`it's definitly not konq`
`04:28.51`	`treke\|home`	`( dillo)`
`04:29.00`	`AbsentiaZ`	`dillo is the fastest browser`
`04:29.01`	`treke\|home`	`no css support and no page scaling support`
`04:29.04`	`AbsentiaZ`	`its also like 300kb`
`04:29.23`	`AbsentiaZ`	`but it is very basic at this point`
`04:29.34`	`AbsentiaZ`	`I have it up in my screenshots`
`04:29.39`	`fliplap`	`shrug, i think i can deal w/ that`
`04:29.50`	`fliplap`	`anyone know if netfront will run on the 5500`
`04:30.02`	`fliplap`	`Netfront is the browser on my Sanyo-8100 as well :-)`
`04:30.04`	`treke\|home`	`AbsentiaZ: if it's still as fast as it is with all the features, I'd be impressed :)`
`04:30.16`	`AbsentiaZ`	`true`
`04:31.47`	`treke\|home`	`look at what happened to konq when they added all the features in :p`
`04:31.52`	`treke\|home`	`it used to be fast also`
`04:31.57`	`AbsentiaZ`	`yup`
`04:32.26`	`AbsentiaZ`	`do you know what the 'eval' use on zradio is??`
`04:33.02`	`treke\|home`	`eval?`
`04:33.16`	`AbsentiaZ`	`I like it... just wondering if it's gonna cut out on me.`
`04:33.34`	`treke\|home`	`no clue`
`04:33.39`	`AbsentiaZ`	`yeah, it costs $10.... but it works. ok.`
`04:34.05`	`AbsentiaZ`	`know anything about tkcradio??`
`04:34.09`	`treke\|home`	`nope`
`04:34.17`	`AbsentiaZ`	`k`
`04:34.31`	`treke\|home`	`just know that it's free for ogg usage`
`04:34.33`	`treke\|home`	`or it was`
`04:35.11`	`treke\|home`	`worked well enough for me`
`04:35.41`	`AbsentiaZ`	`I'm listening to a stream of classical music...`
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`05:05.16`	`conundrum\|sleep\|`	`ibot:wifi`
`05:05.19`		`[wifi] see wireless or for a small compact non-port-blocking card, get one of these a) linksys wcf12 for only $65 shipped from buy.com b) netgear MA701NA for $65 shipped from buy.com c) socket LOW POWER wlan (amazing battery life) for $160 + shipping on buy.com`
`05:05.42`	`conundrum\|sleep\|`	`ibot: thanks`
`05:05.42`		`conundrum\|sleep\|: pas de quoi`
`05:05.54`	`conundrum\|sleep\|`	`ibot: speak english please ;)`
`05:05.55`		`conundrum\|sleep\|: i haven't a clue`
`05:05.58`	`conundrum\|sleep\|`	`lol`
`05:12.14`	`*** part/#zaurus AbsentiaZ (~zaurus@207-237-66-188.c3-0.80w-ubr9.nyr-80w.ny.cable.rcn.com)`
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`05:44.07`	`fliplap`	`heh, its going to take all night just to extract mozilla`
`06:03.37`	`fliplap`	`invalid cross-device link`
`06:03.46`	`fliplap`	`thats a new one, when trying to ln -s`
`06:05.12`	`fliplap`	`nm, i lied`
`06:10.28`	`fliplap`	`ok, now its complaining about too many levels of symbolic links....there's only 1 level`
`06:11.06`	`fliplap`	`grr`
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`11:18.30`	`george`	`Hello`
`11:20.01`	`lpotter`	`g`
`11:20.08`	George`PB	`hi ljp`
`11:20.28`	George`PB	`lpotter: Finally finished pissing about with my powerbook :D`
`11:20.42`	George`PB	`lpotter: running linux fine atm :D Only problem is it's running at 765MHz with FSB of 102MHz`
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`11:20.50`	`lpotter`	`hmm.. and.. decided to give it up and go x86?`
`11:20.57`	George`PB	`no`
`11:21.00`	George`PB	`I'm using it right now`
`11:21.06`	George`PB	`it's a brand new laptop you dunce, I'm not giving it up :P`
`11:21.22`	`lpotter`	`why is it running so slow`
`11:21.22`	`MG_Tak`	George`PB: always so pleasant
`11:21.26`	George`PB	`no x86 machine has a backlit keyboard :D`
`11:21.40`	`lpotter`	`they make backlit keyboards`
`11:21.40`	George`PB	`lpotter: CPU slewing... kernel hasn't got any implementations to speed up the clock atm`
`11:21.50`	`lpotter`	`ahh`
`11:21.55`	George`PB	`lpotter: it starts off at 765MHz then kicks up to 1249MHz`
`11:22.25`	George`PB	`lpotter: unfortunately, benh hasn't got round to implementing this in linux yet`
`11:22.29`	`lpotter`	`my lappie only scales the cpu if its on battery power`
`11:22.40`	`lpotter`	`an dits a bios config`
`11:22.41`	George`PB	`lpotter: well, on this, the software controls _everything_`
`11:23.04`	`lpotter`	`you tried getting into the bios?`
`11:23.13`	`lpotter`	`is there even a bios on a mac?`
`11:23.21`	`lpotter`	`:)`
`11:23.25`	George`PB	`lpotter: afaik, OF doesn't do much :P`
`11:23.27`	George`PB	`OF == Open Firmware == equiv of PC BIOS`
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`12:56.23`	`absentia`	`re`
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`15:02.03`	`Twiun`	`Use the force, Luke`
`15:02.08`	`Luke-Jr`	`...`
`15:02.21`	`Twiun`	`ok, ok, that was a bad one`
`15:02.35`	`Twiun`	`it should be an ioctl`
`15:02.44`	`Luke-Jr`	`how would I do it?`
`15:03.20`	`George-`	`TWIUN!!!!`
`15:03.26`	`yeiazel`	`Luke-Jr: there's a doc on dev.zaurus.com or something`
`15:03.45`	`Twiun`	`yeiazel: demo app iirc`
`15:04.01`	`George-`	`Undefined variable: use-the-force`
`15:05.55`	`yeiazel`	`s/has just seen//`
`15:05.56`	`yeiazel`	`heh`
`15:05.58`	`yeiazel`	`hum`
`15:05.59`	`yeiazel`	`:)`
`15:05.59`	`Luke-Jr`	`yeiazel: dev.zaurus.com doesn't exist?`
`15:07.00`	`yeiazel`	`Luke-Jr: just a blur found it`
`15:07.03`	`yeiazel`	`AAAAAH`
`15:07.13`	`Twiun`	`Luke-Jr: http://killefiz.de/zaurus/showdetail.php?app=45`
`15:07.30`	`yeiazel`	`http://docs.zaurus.com/index.php?id=led_howto`
`15:07.47`	`Twiun`	`Luke-Jr: relocated to the link yeiazel said ;)`
`15:07.52`	`Luke-Jr`	`Twiun: 404 =p`
`15:15.05`	`*** join/#zaurus treke (~ggilbert@12.107.12.130)`
`15:19.10`	`Disconnect`	`Luke-Jr: docs.zaurus.com and its simple. my second project is to get qpe-gaim to blink said light when you get unread messages. (first project is porting vncserver to the 760 - just finished digging to figure out why the ts sends 8 bytes instead of 20.)`
`15:20.13`	`Twiun`	`Disconnect: what was the reason for the size discrepancy?`
`15:20.47`	`Disconnect`	`Twiun: old struct is (off the top of my head) long long x, y; long pressure, long ms .. or something like that. new one seems to be just x/y.`
`15:20.53`	`Disconnect`	`which is fine, since x/y is all we need`
`15:21.54`	`Twiun`	`granted, you can derive ms from that... but not pressure`
`15:21.55`	`Disconnect`	`ah new is unsigned long x, unsigned long y, between 150 and 3830 on both (according to the headers)`
`15:22.46`	`Disconnect`	`not sure this one passes pressure. looking at /linux/include/asm-arm/arch-pxa/ads7846_ts.h which seems to be whats driving /dev/sharp_ts (according to comments anyway)`
`15:23.50`	`Disconnect`	`but because of the 'missing' data (which tssimd doesn't use anyway) even the passthrough doesn't work`
`15:30.48`	`Luke-Jr`	`Disconnect: Wanna port krdc instead? =p`
`15:31.08`	`Luke-Jr`	`krdc has a really nice UI =p`
`15:31.50`	`treke`	`krdc would not be a nice port`
`15:32.27`	`Luke-Jr`	`why not?`
`15:32.43`	`treke`	`It is.`
`15:32.50`	`Luke-Jr`	`o.o`
`15:32.58`	`Luke-Jr`	`krdc is?`
`15:33.02`	`treke`	`It was written to be a kde from the beginning`
`15:33.13`	`Luke-Jr`	`IIRC, it's a port of vncviewer`
`15:33.23`	`treke`	`it's a vnc viewer`
`15:33.30`	`Luke-Jr`	`Based on TightVNC`
`15:33.48`	`treke`	`supporting the tightvnc encoding`
`15:34.31`	`Disconnect`	`Luke-Jr: porting the vnc server, not the client ;)`
`15:34.49`	`Luke-Jr`	`treke: "based on the TightVNC Unix client"`
`15:34.54`	`Disconnect`	`afaik (and I haven't tested) the client works fine since it gets standard x/y 'click' events from qpe/opie/whatever`
`15:35.16`	`Luke-Jr`	`Disconnect: it won't connect o.o`
`15:35.44`	`treke`	`iirc that was the one with the really ugly "let's run everything through the preprocessor to generate our code" setup`
`15:37.08`	`Luke-Jr`	`from the krdc code, I think dropping the service locator would make it quite portable`
`15:37.35`	`treke`	`I'll take a look at it again when I have a chance. I don't recall what it was that looked like bad mojo`
`15:37.57`	`Luke-Jr`	`it uses some KDE config stuff, but I assume that's simple enough to port...`
`15:38.12`	`Luke-Jr`	`Would need to have been done for any KDE app`
`15:43.03`	`treke`	`oh well. one of these days I'll finish the work I did on keypebble`
`15:43.25`	`Disconnect`	`fyi I was wrong, the data is pressure, x, y, ms, all as short.`
`15:45.35`	`Twiun`	`good ;)`
`15:45.50`	`Luke-Jr`	`pressure is reported to the Z?`
`15:46.06`	`Twiun`	`Luke-Jr: always was on the 5x00 series`
`15:46.21`	`Luke-Jr`	`why doesn't the image app make the thickness based on it then? =p`
`15:46.27`	`Luke-Jr`	`silly Sharp`
`15:46.43`	`Twiun`	`probably because the pressure data isn't really all that significant`
`15:46.47`	`treke`	`qt/e doesnt pass through pressure`
`15:46.49`	`Luke-Jr`	`o`
`15:46.57`	`Twiun`	`values range from 0 to 550-650 iirc`
`15:47.09`	`Twiun`	`0 to 550 being a discontinuity`
`15:47.16`	`Luke-Jr`	`too bad the touchscreen acts like a mouse as much as it does tho`
`15:47.23`	`Twiun`	`eh?`
`15:47.26`	`*** join/#zaurus minipanda (~zhanght@211.154.175.2)`
`15:47.29`	`Luke-Jr`	`the mouseover seems strange =p`
`15:47.40`	`treke`	`?`
`15:47.40`	`Twiun`	`that's not the touchscreen's fault`
`15:47.43`	`Luke-Jr`	`some things react to it`
`15:47.59`	`Luke-Jr`	`Twiun: no, but it's how the software uses it`
`15:48.13`	`treke`	`everything is going to react to it, when you touch it, it's supposed to do something`
`15:48.30`	`Luke-Jr`	`treke: but after you've touched it, the cursor stays where it was`
`15:48.36`	`Luke-Jr`	`treke: triggering mouseovers`
`15:48.49`	`treke`	`where is it supposed to go?`
`15:48.54`	`Luke-Jr`	`shrug`
`15:49.13`	`Luke-Jr`	`I'd think it would be made more for a touchscreen and not a mouse =p`
`15:49.24`	`Luke-Jr`	`so the cursor only exists when you touch it`
`15:55.59`	`absentia`	`re`
`15:59.04`	`*** join/#zaurus SuKoShi (~sukoshi@dyn-81-166-61-37.ppp.tiscali.fr)`
`16:00.34`	`Disconnect`	`Luke-Jr: for X stuff you can run 'unclutter', which will move the mouse offscreen after it idles`
`16:14.37`	`*** join/#zaurus minipanda (~zhanght@211.154.175.2)`
`16:27.20`	`Luke-Jr`	`Can people in Japan find SL-C760s in stores or do they need to order them online too? o.o`
`17:02.38`	`*** join/#zaurus Disconnect (~dis@you.never.shoulda.gotontheinter.net)`
`17:19.51`	`absentia`	`vert alignment?`
`17:19.53`	`absentia`	`what device?`
`17:21.38`	`Disconnect`	`absentia: c760`
`17:21.54`	`Disconnect`	`got it almost-but-not-quite right (and I don't want to just hardcode "its 3 pixels lower, dumbass" in the sources ;) ..)`
`17:22.15`	`Disconnect`	`lol`
`17:22.58`	`Disconnect`	`that and I forgot my charger, so (after about 4 days of moderate use with occassional charge-while-running) its down to 50% and dropping (I suspect it needs a full discharge/recharge cycle to calib the batt sensor)`
`17:28.11`	`*** join/#zaurus Shdwdrgn (Picard@sourpuss.net)`
`17:29.14`	`absentia`	`3 pixels ?`
`17:30.02`	`absentia`	`I usually calibrate a little wrong... at the bottom...`
`17:30.29`	`absentia`	`I think the thickness of my pointer is about 3 pixels, etc... but, man, some of the menus on the z are just WAY too small.`
`17:30.33`	`absentia`	`you can't click the little buttons, etc.`
`17:30.46`	`Disconnect`	`3 pixels after I argued it into submission.`
`17:31.01`	`Disconnect`	`and manually twacked on /etc/tssimd_calib or whatever its called`
`17:31.22`	`*** join/#zaurus W8TVI (~W8TVI@1114107428.mi.dial.hexcom.net)`
`17:36.46`	`absentia`	`I don't even have that file`
`17:36.50`	`absentia`	`and my system seems to run fine`
`17:37.13`	`absentia`	`you have rebooted, right? so the driver stuff gets loaded before qpe ?`
`17:38.57`	`Disconnect`	`yep. thats not the issue. it -works-. (after I tweaked it to get the mirroring correct and use the proper struct for /dev/sharp_ts)`
`17:39.10`	`absentia`	`so, it's just the 3 pixels off ?`
`17:39.14`	`Disconnect`	`if you don't reboot [qpe..not necessarily the whole Z] you don't get anything out of it.`
`17:39.15`	`absentia`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:39.16`	`absentia`	`wht's that ?`
`17:39.33`	`absentia`	`how does one just restart qpe?`
`17:39.41`	`absentia`	`I use to have a menu that would say.. reboot z, reboot qpe, shutdown qpe`
`17:39.44`	`absentia`	`but I can't find that anymore`
`17:39.55`	`Disconnect`	`just kill the qpe -owner [etc] process. the qpe.sh will restart it.`
`17:40.03`	`absentia`	`ah`
`17:40.30`	`absentia`	`did you see my screenshots ?`
`17:41.39`	`Disconnect`	`screenshots of what?`
`17:41.43`	`absentia`	`m54.spy.org/zaurus/screenshots ... I like 174026 ...`
`17:41.45`	`absentia`	`vnc`
`17:42.25`	`absentia`	`one into qtopia-vncservers... another into zdebian vncserver.. and zdebian had a vncviewer into qtopia vnc server.`
`17:42.39`	`absentia`	`(plus I had w2k vncviewer and http access into them as well)`
`17:42.45`	`absentia`	`Im so happy I finally got it working.`
`17:42.57`	`absentia`	`now I can whack my 700 and start to help the developers.`
`17:48.00`	`*** join/#zaurus TheMasterMind1 (~aman@h-68-166-65-166.MCLNVA23.dynamic.covad.net)`
`17:49.25`	`absentia`	`gupta ....`
`17:58.31`	`*** join/#zaurus qfh (~qfh@pD9E8BCEB.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:00.08`	`*** join/#zaurus minipanda (~zhanght@211.154.175.2)`
`18:23.28`	`*** join/#zaurus W8TVI (~W8TVI@3639240124.mi.dial.hexcom.net)`
`18:42.35`	`treke`	`<PROTECTED>`
`18:42.48`	`yeiazel`	`why ?`
`18:43.12`	`treke`	`yeiazel: Because the cursor is off calibration`
`18:43.27`	`yeiazel`	`recalibrate your pda :)`
`18:43.36`	`treke`	`my pda's calibration is fine :p`
`18:43.47`	`yeiazel`	`mine too, and everything works well`
`18:44.59`	`treke`	`<PROTECTED>`
`18:46.07`	`yeiazel`	`I'm blocked at the beginning of indy4 :)`
`18:46.32`	`treke`	`unfortunatly the arrow keys don't work right in mi2`
`18:46.43`	`treke`	`the up arrow brings up a dialog asking if I want to win :p`
`18:46.50`	`yeiazel`	`:))`
`18:47.04`	`treke`	`"yes I do, just not quite yet"`
`18:47.13`	`yeiazel`	`:)`
`18:47.36`	`kergoth`	`treke: c7x0?`
`18:47.41`	`treke`	`yup`
`18:47.56`	`kergoth`	`treke: those little icons for pulling up various apps, on the bottom in portrait, are accessed via the ts panel`
`18:47.59`	`kergoth`	`despite their being off the fb`
`18:47.59`	`treke`	`kergoth: the win dialog does the same thing on my desktop though`
`18:48.01`	`kergoth`	`:)`
`18:48.05`	`treke`	`kergoth: ?`
`18:48.16`	`treke`	`oh`
`18:48.17`	`kergoth`	`the touchscreen panel is larger than the lcd.`
`18:48.24`	`treke`	`I see what you are saying`
`18:48.35`	`treke`	`So QTe compensates for that?`
`18:48.38`	`kergoth`	`and it wouldnt surprise me if it was say, around 20 pixels or so`
`18:48.39`	`kergoth`	`not sure`
`18:48.51`	`kergoth`	`really depends on which end of hte panel its on`
`18:48.58`	`kergoth`	`if its at the low end, itd have to compensate`
`18:49.00`	`kergoth`	`brb`
`18:49.00`	`treke`	`I havent done the exact calculation on how far off it is`
`18:49.11`	`treke`	`It just looked like 20 might be right`
`18:49.22`	`yeiazel`	`playing scummvm games in the metro is great`
`18:49.25`	`kergoth`	`k`
`18:49.32`	`kergoth`	`might not be that causing it, but its something to check into`
`18:49.35`	`yeiazel`	`:)`
`18:49.41`	`kergoth`	`err, whats libgcc_eh?`
`18:49.44`	`treke`	`Was gonna play it on the flight :)`
`18:49.49`	`kergoth`	`must be the canadian libgcc`
`18:50.12`	`treke`	`ha`
`18:50.44`	`treke`	`kergoth: i still want to make those buttons do something one of these days`
`18:50.56`	`treke`	`along with a half a dozen other things :p`
`18:51.07`	`kergoth`	`yeah, me too. need to add something to odevice to allow binding rects that are outside the lcd to an action`
`18:53.19`	`treke`	`that's probably it, now that I look at it, the distance it's off is almost exactly the dimensons of one of those buttons`
`18:54.29`	`kergoth`	`wonder if their kernel driver is doing Evil things to the values`
`18:54.38`	`treke`	`odd thing is, if I click on that part of the screen, the cursor doesnt move`
`18:54.49`	`treke`	`but if I drag into that space, it keeps moving until I stop dragging`
`18:54.56`	`kergoth`	`weird`
`18:56.35`	`kergoth`	`bbiab, meeting`
`19:11.57`	`*** join/#zaurus rev\|lib (rev@umd111-13.d.umn.edu)`
`19:15.26`	`Disconnect`	`kergoth: when I grabbed raw ts data I found that the ts was 640x480 (roughly) dispite the silkscreened buttons`
`19:16.11`	`kergoth`	`could be the kernel driver is doing Bad Things`
`19:16.22`	`kergoth`	`given its sharp/lineo code, taht wouldnt surprise me in teh least`
`19:17.29`	`rev\|lib`	`heh`
`19:17.31`	`rev\|lib`	`yo`
`19:18.42`	`kergoth`	`hey rev`
`19:18.43`	`kergoth`	`how goes?`
`19:19.12`	`treke`	`so apparently toshiba might be using the zaurus screen in an device`
`19:19.29`	`Disconnect`	`kergoth: drivers/char/ads7846_ts.c .. and its a mess. (wow.. #if 0 .... #elif 1 ...)`
`19:19.36`	`kergoth`	`hey! i know that driver`
`19:19.39`	`treke`	`that would be cool`
`19:19.46`	`absentia`	`re`
`19:19.48`	`kergoth`	`in fact, i threw it out and wrote a new one based on the ucb1x00 code`
`19:19.51`	`kergoth`	`;)`
`19:20.04`	`kergoth`	`much cleaner`
`19:20.05`	`Disconnect`	`wow.. #elif 1 .. #else ..`
`19:20.10`	`treke`	`Disconnect: If it's in the embeddix patch, it's a mess`
`19:20.14`	`treke`	`you don't have to tell us`
`19:20.16`	`kergoth`	`yeah, lineo does that all the time`
`19:20.26`	`Disconnect`	`yah.. but thats taking 'mess' to a whole new level..`
`19:20.32`	`kergoth`	`preprocessor madness. unnecessary abstractions, and missing ones where there should be ones`
`19:20.41`	`Disconnect`	`"lets optimize these #if 0's/if 1s"...`
`19:20.41`	`kergoth`	`read the Z keyboard drivers sometime`
`19:20.44`	`Disconnect`	`nah, thats ok`
`19:20.54`	`treke`	`kergoth: 36 seems to be the magic number for the scummvm offset`
`19:20.55`	`kergoth`	`i mean, keyboard drivers are usually ugly`
`19:21.01`	`kergoth`	`but they take it to a whole new level of ugly`
`19:21.27`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`19:21.30`	`kergoth`	`that was funny shit`
`19:21.35`	`kergoth`	`i still cant believe they did that`
`19:21.39`	`kergoth`	`just an all new low`
`19:21.55`	`absentia`	`I'm going to try out that scummvm soon.`
`19:22.34`	`*** join/#zaurus djk (~h-167-156@167.156.63.253)`
`19:23.07`	`djk`	`Anybody know why the clock would not hold between reboots?`
`19:23.17`	`absentia`	`feature`
`19:23.26`	`djk`	`Yuck!`
`19:24.20`	`djk`	`are you serious`
`19:24.29`	`rev\|lib`	`heh`
`19:25.15`	`djk`	`I used to hold on the Sharp ROMs I am using the TCK alpha with qtopia 1.6.2 and notice the clock not holding`
`19:25.45`	`kergoth`	`treke: tim suggests cating /bin/busybox into the deviceinfo/product to see what happens when you hit the end of their buffer`
`19:25.48`	`kergoth`	`treke: hehe`
`19:27.02`	`treke`	`djk: It's a pxa thing`
`19:27.08`	`kergoth`	`itd be funny as hell if it just paniced or overwrote random kernel memory`
`19:27.32`	`djk`	`treke: pxa ?`
`19:27.34`	`treke`	`Write Error: Invalid argument`
`19:27.47`	`kergoth`	`hah`
`19:27.51`	`kergoth`	`damn`
`19:27.52`	`kergoth`	`:)`
`19:28.25`	`treke`	`it's still utterly braindead to not have just used a freaking file :)`
`19:28.42`	`kergoth`	`yep`
`19:28.47`	`kergoth`	`more braindead than usual even`
`19:28.48`	`*** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@adsl-165-252.freeuk.com)`
`19:28.51`	`treke`	`I'll probably convert it to just return static data`
`19:28.59`	`treke`	`no point having to do one more thing at first boot`
`19:29.04`	`George-`	`hello all`
`19:29.10`	`treke`	`s/first/every/`
`19:29.25`	`kergoth`	`yeah, just foolishness`
`19:29.38`	`kergoth`	`"i know, lets slow down the boot even more by throwing more crap there!"`
`19:29.42`	`kergoth`	`~kill sharp/lineo`
`19:29.45`		`ACTION slits sharp/lineo's throat`
`19:29.53`	`George-`	`kergoth: wooooot, you're talking, and you're not yelling at some poor sod?!?!`
`19:30.07`	`George-`	`oh wait, didn't notice the ~kill`
`19:30.09`	`kergoth`	`George-: the day isnt over yet`
`19:30.17`	`George-`	`kergoth: hehe`
`19:30.40`	`George-`	`what other software do I need to install on my new powerbook?`
`19:30.44`	`treke`	`windows`
`19:31.01`	`George-`	`treke: yeh, I have virtual pc installed, can't be bothered to install win2k at the moment.. probably do that tomorrow`
`19:31.19`	`treke`	`kergoth: I have rotation working again on my c700`
`19:31.38`	`kergoth`	`cool`
`19:32.02`	`treke`	`kergoth: turns out the problem is that Appearance settings overrides ODevice, and I had the Appearance settings from the 3800 still on my zaurus`
`19:32.09`	`kergoth`	`ahh`
`19:32.10`	`Disconnect`	`George-: you have mol installed?`
`19:32.12`	`kergoth`	`thatll do it`
`19:32.29`	`kergoth`	`treke: should have an option in appearance to revert to device settings, and have it remove the options from the .conf`
`19:33.04`	`George-`	`Disconnect: doesn't seem to work on 2.6.0-test7`
`19:33.19`	`George-`	`kergoth: btw - how's the buildroot transition going?`
`19:33.37`	`treke`	`oh well. I'm going to lunch.`
`19:33.41`	`treke`	`Piece biznitches`
`19:34.14`	`kergoth`	`s/iec/eac/`
`19:34.14`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`19:34.14`	`kergoth`	`later`
`19:36.33`	`absentia`	`later`
`19:37.47`	`absentia`	`kergoth: question... is mmc/sd supposed to be "unstable" under write-load ... for sharp rom? is it any more stable under oz?! that might be a reason for me to go 100% oz. :->`
`19:39.25`	`George-`	`brb`
`19:40.17`	`kergoth`	`absentia: we're using the same drivers they are, which suck`
`19:40.18`	`kergoth`	`for now`
`19:40.30`	`kergoth`	`one of these days i'll get around to finishing the Z support for the handhelds.org drivers`
`19:43.02`	`*** join/#zaurus johnz (~z@ppp-123-159.27-151.libero.it)`
`19:47.13`	`absentia`	`ok`
`19:47.18`	`absentia`	`I don't remember so much headache on the 700`
`19:47.39`	`absentia`	`now that my z760 is where I want (m54.spy.org/zaurus/screenshots) ... I'll be able to work on the c700 as dev....`
`19:50.41`	`*** join/#zaurus XavierXscale (~XavierXsc@pD9E1EE9E.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`19:51.36`	`*** join/#zaurus XavierXscale (~XavierXsc@pD9E1EE9E.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`19:56.14`	`*** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@adsl-165-252.freeuk.com)`
`20:01.25`	`*** join/#zaurus madeddie (madeddie@kyra.madtech.cx)`
`20:01.50`	`madeddie`	`any reason known why community.zaurus.com is unresponsive? or is it just me? :)`
`20:02.12`	`*** part/#zaurus XavierXscale (~XavierXsc@pD9E1EE9E.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`20:02.45`	`Twiun`	`madeddie: scheduled maintenance - there's a post on the zaurus.com/dev/board forum`
`20:05.47`	`madeddie`	`ok, i'll check, was wondering about that, but it's been 24 hours or so, but prolly part me, thanks`
`20:06.36`	`madeddie`	`hehe, posted 01-10 and the site goes down 20 :) weird ppl, but i'll just check in in the morning (for me morning anyway :))`
`20:06.44`	`madeddie`	`thx again twiun`
`20:07.47`	`Twiun`	`no prob`
`20:14.16`	`Disconnect`	`anyone know if the SL5600 and C7[56]0 use the same pinout on the side connector?`
`20:14.36`	`kergoth`	`they do`
`20:14.43`	`kergoth`	`same as the 5500 as well`
`20:15.11`	`Disconnect`	`cool thats what I'd suspected. thanks :)`
`20:15.20`	`kergoth`	`np`
`20:15.27`	`kergoth`	`its nice being able to use the serial cable to debug on all of them`
`20:16.25`	`George-`	`kergoth: is there an eta on the next release of OZ?`
`20:16.44`	`Disconnect`	`yah. thats the other thing I need ;) (fyi, if anyone is curious, in theory its usb-1 [red] to pin 1+2, usb-4 [black] to 15/16 .. hopefully the cable end is openable and I can confirm that before trying it..)`
`20:17.22`	`*** join/#zaurus rev\|lib (rev@umd111-13.d.umn.edu)`
`20:17.24`	`kergoth`	`George-: nope`
`20:17.46`	`kergoth`	`and there wont be until we have all the packages in the new buildsystem`
`20:17.52`	`kergoth`	`then we can start thinking about such things again`
`20:18.35`	`George-`	`kergoth: how far into the transition are you?`
`20:18.45`	`kergoth`	`about 90 packages from buildroot are in`
`20:18.48`	`kergoth`	`out of a total of around 290`
`20:18.58`	`kergoth`	`and then probably an additional 30 packages that were never in buildroot`
`20:18.59`	`absentia`	`what needs to be done to them ?`
`20:19.02`	`kergoth`	`possibly more`
`20:19.06`	`kergoth`	`its just a format change`
`20:19.09`	`kergoth`	`from the old makefile format`
`20:19.09`	`absentia`	`ok`
`20:19.11`	`kergoth`	`to the new .oe/ebuild fdormat`
`20:19.13`	`kergoth`	`format`
`20:19.24`	`absentia`	`now that I have access to the c700 ... without worry, I'll be able to experiment more. ya.`
`20:19.49`	`kergoth`	`the oe images actually boot, so it shouldnt be long before we can setup nightly build runs for various devices`
`20:19.59`	`absentia`	`cool!`
`20:20.29`	`kergoth`	`yeah. figure we'll do a nightly and a weekly, and then periodic test runs with some sort of testing framework`
`20:20.36`	`kergoth`	`to confirm build sanity`
`20:21.20`	`kergoth`	`automatic mirror updating..`
`20:21.23`	`kergoth`	`should be pretty nice`
`20:21.56`	`kergoth`	`i'd like to get some form of web based custom image builder at some point`
`20:21.59`	`absentia`	`my only issue was that I wanted to use the zaurus... even though, ya, I could just cross... I also like to flash and test... it's one thing to compile -- it's another to use... etc.`
`20:22.12`	`absentia`	`now I'm free on the c700... and I know how to get X going under debian... so I'm all set.`
`20:22.22`	`absentia`	`in fact, I could probably dedicate a slower machine at home to it.`
`20:22.37`	`kergoth`	`the builds will always be cross based for performance reasons, but if we get a test framework in place to run tests on a test device, we'll have the runtime sanity checked..`
`20:22.40`	`kergoth`	`so should be okay`
`20:22.48`	`absentia`	`I'd be willing to help with perl scripts... and I'm learning more python.`
`20:23.09`	`absentia`	`right... what I mean is... I only have a 400MHz p2 or a 900mhz p3`
`20:23.13`	`absentia`	`(laptop)`
`20:23.15`	`kergoth`	`gotcha`
`20:23.31`	`kergoth`	`i dont have much for build power either. maybe we need to get some sort of build mlachine registration`
`20:23.41`	`kergoth`	`where you install distcc and register yourself as contributing build power to the build runs`
`20:23.43`	`absentia`	`so it's vpc on laptop (900) or dedicated 400mhz with debian, etc. right now, the 400mhz is off. I was using it to play games, but I haven't done that in about a year.`
`20:23.44`	`kergoth`	`or something`
`20:24.10`	`absentia`	`2.4GHz machines don't seem to be that expensive`
`20:24.24`	`kergoth`	`yeah`
`20:24.29`	`kergoth`	`thinking about buying a new build box myself soon`
`20:24.34`	`absentia`	`I could probably swing one... but not soon... I have the 400mhz thing now. how long does a build take? for an entire build ?`
`20:24.50`	`kergoth`	`build of the feeds, stuff outside of an image build, or just image?`
`20:24.56`	`absentia`	`each`
`20:24.59`	`kergoth`	`probably a few hours for the whole deal`
`20:25.02`	`absentia`	`ok`
`20:25.05`	`kergoth`	`but it really depends on whether or not you use ccache`
`20:25.07`	`absentia`	`so cpu speed is critical`
`20:25.12`	`kergoth`	`yeah`
`20:25.13`	`absentia`	`what is ccache ?`
`20:25.17`	`kergoth`	`compiler cache`
`20:25.21`	`kergoth`	`caches object code`
`20:25.27`	`absentia`	`does amd vs intel make any diff at all ?`
`20:25.30`	`absentia`	`memory?`
`20:25.30`	`kergoth`	`first run is actual compilation, make clean, make, and now its pulling the cached objects`
`20:25.38`	`absentia`	`ah.`
`20:25.44`	`absentia`	`makes sense.`
`20:25.46`	`kergoth`	`so if you use ccache, disk performance becomes the major bottleneck, for source extraction and the like`
`20:25.51`	`kergoth`	`more so than proc`
`20:26.40`	`absentia`	`I mena, how muc would a system be for like 256mb ram, no gfx.. no monitor.. and disk... shouldn't be that much.`
`20:26.44`	`absentia`	`I just don'tnkow squat 'bout pcs.`
`20:26.46`	`*** join/#zaurus rev\|lib (rev@umd111-13.d.umn.edu)`
`20:27.16`	`absentia`	`I keep looking at the alienware pcs, but I figure they're probably overkill and overpriced .... but they sure are purdy.`
`20:27.28`	`kergoth`	`hell if i know, its been a while since i bought any computer hardware`
`20:27.30`	`kergoth`	`years`
`20:27.30`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`20:28.30`	`rev\|lib`	`i was looking at mwave.com for a new barebones system`
`20:28.32`	`rev\|lib`	`looks like a good deal`
`20:28.41`	`rev\|lib`	`i was considering upgrading my k6-2/350 to something newer`
`20:28.49`	`rev\|lib`	`p4, athlon, celeron or maybe athlon 64`
`20:28.56`	`kergoth`	`mwave is good, bought quite a few thingis from them in the past`
`20:29.00`	`kergoth`	`athlon 64 what they're calling opteron?`
`20:29.03`	`absentia`	`ya, but I have nearly $2K invested in zaurus .. that was to be my pc!`
`20:29.06`	`rev\|lib`	`but i think i'll keep the Sigmarion III and not get a new PC`
`20:29.28`	`rev\|lib`	`i'd use the sig3 more like a regular PC than i do the k6-2; it's just a fiel server`
`20:29.36`	`rev\|lib`	`hrmm`
`20:29.40`	`rev\|lib`	`i'm nto sure if athlon 64 = opteron`
`20:29.44`	`rev\|lib`	`is it the same thing?`
`20:29.57`	`rev\|lib`	`for some reason, ithought opteron was a different chip, more server-ey`
`20:30.01`	`rev\|lib`	`but i really don't know at all`
`20:30.18`	`treke`	`not quite the same thing`
`20:30.21`	`rev\|lib`	`for $600 i could get an athlon64, 256 MB RAM, new mobo, etc`
`20:30.24`	`rev\|lib`	`nto too bad`
`20:30.29`	`absentia`	`right`
`20:30.31`	`absentia`	`that was what I saw`
`20:30.35`	`absentia`	`I have the ati radeon already`
`20:30.37`	`absentia`	`and a monitor`
`20:30.37`	`treke`	`It's like a xeon vs a pentium 4`
`20:30.43`	`rev\|lib`	`yeah`
`20:30.44`	`rev\|lib`	`that's what i thought`
`20:30.47`	`treke`	`same basic chip, different cache`
`20:31.05`	`absentia`	`go to tomshardware.com`
`20:31.05`	`rev\|lib`	`yeah`
`20:31.05`	`absentia`	`they hvs the cpus, tec...`
`20:31.10`	`absentia`	`and the charts.`
`20:31.17`	`absentia`	`I wanted a thunderbird?`
`20:31.22`	`absentia`	`firebird?`
`20:31.24`	`absentia`	`I forget.`
`20:31.50`	`absentia`	`it's like, look, I don't want to pay a lot for this muf... er.. cpu`
`20:32.06`	`treke`	`2ghz, plenty fast`
`20:32.10`	`rev\|lib`	`yeah`
`20:32.25`	`rev\|lib`	`i pretty much only want something that's 1 ghz of faster`
`20:32.27`	`rev\|lib`	`but then again`
`20:32.33`	`rev\|lib`	`i went wit the sig3 over a new PC`
`20:32.38`	`rev\|lib`	`but it'd be nice to have a fast squeak development box`
`20:32.46`	`kergoth`	`treke: i loved playing with masticator's opteron.. makes me want one`
`20:33.09`	`rev\|lib`	`my Zaurus benchmarks abotu the same speed as the k6-2 :P`
`20:33.10`	`treke`	`yeah, next upgrade will probably happen once opterons become reasonably priced`
`20:33.22`	`absentia`	`I want some place that will let me build my system and then give me all the places that will sell me that system for a price range`
`20:33.43`	`rev\|lib`	`i bought all the parts to this k6-2 at a place called transcendpc.com`
`20:33.51`	`rev\|lib`	`but they're long defunct :(`
`20:34.04`	`absentia`	`I just know that I won't get the proper performance out of a machine if I put it together`
`20:34.06`	`rev\|lib`	`which sucks, because they were great- good prices, awesoem service`
`20:34.13`	`rev\|lib`	`absentia: why not?`
`20:34.29`	`rev\|lib`	`treke: i could put it together fer you`
`20:34.31`	`treke`	`I'd just rather someone else deal with putting it together`
`20:34.33`	`kergoth`	`treke: buying machines and building them yourself is so much more expensive due to the deals the companies get on parts.. which sucks`
`20:34.42`	`kergoth`	`i miss building them, but i doubt i will next time`
`20:34.55`	`treke`	`rev\|lib: I can put them together just fine, I just would rather someone else do ti :)`
`20:35.13`	`rev\|lib`	`treke: exactly- which is why i was saying i could do it for you... tell me what you want, i'll give you a quote`
`20:35.17`	`treke`	`problem is that no one seemd to sell SMP machines in the price range I was looking to pay :p`
`20:35.23`	`rev\|lib`	`kergoth: it would be more expensive if you were usign the same parts, yes`
`20:35.28`	`treke`	`rev\|lib: Already bought the parts and put it together long ago`
`20:35.40`	`rev\|lib`	`but the machiens i've put together always ended up cheaper than the dell or gateway (etc) equivalent, and with higher qualtiy parts`
`20:35.47`	`rev\|lib`	`treke: ah, doh`
`20:36.11`	`kergoth`	`at this point my time is valuable enough to be willing to just pay someone else to do it`
`20:36.12`	`treke`	`all the SMP stuff was generally server stuff. Not something I'd want to toss under my desk with a gf4`
`20:36.17`	`kergoth`	`that wasnt the case a few years ago`
`20:36.17`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`20:37.32`	`absentia`	`see, I have an ati radeon 9800 pro`
`20:37.43`	`absentia`	`I want to buy a case, motherboard, cpu, mem and disk...`
`20:37.48`	`absentia`	`and I want to spend < $500`
`20:37.51`	`absentia`	`that's it.`
`20:37.59`	`absentia`	`but like what is memory timing? etc.`
`20:38.16`	`_Psycho`	`nvidia drivers suck a lots more`
`20:38.17`	`_Psycho`	`imo`
`20:38.17`	`rev\|lib`	`mmm macs`
`20:38.21`	`absentia`	`ya`
`20:38.40`	`absentia`	`but I hear k6? nvidia 9sucked) and who was the other? 84asus23?`
`20:38.41`	`_Psycho`	`nvidia card take too much watt and space too ;)`
`20:38.42`	`absentia`	`I forget all the thing`
`20:38.54`	`absentia`	`and then thewre was intel8400ex? blah. I can't remember all thse code names`
`20:38.55`	`treke`	`_Psycho: I've heard of compatibility and stability issues with the ati's. Nvidias almost never give me any problems and they've had a few years head start`
`20:38.56`	`absentia`	`too much.`
`20:39.01`	`absentia`	`just give me a motherboard!`
`20:40.03`	`_Psycho`	`treke same for me, i never had any problem at all wiht my ati, and everytime i heard ppl upgrading they nvidia drivers they all like "omg i have to install the old one" :)`
`20:40.36`	`_Psycho`	`treke you know if i can compile scummvm witout the cdrom part ? SDL_CDplay etc ? i didnt checked yet`
`20:40.37`	`treke`	`Dunno. Maybe when ati's have been around for a year or so I'll consider giving them a try :p`
`20:40.45`	`_Psycho`	`i didnt included that in my sdl compile`
`20:40.55`	`treke`	`just enable it in sdl`
`20:41.02`	`_Psycho`	`yeah ok`
`20:41.36`	`_Psycho`	`i have an ati in my c700 $$$$$`
`20:41.37`	`_Psycho`	`;)`
`20:41.39`	`treke`	`I like stuff that's demonstrated itself to work well`
`20:41.40`	`rev\|lib`	`yup`
`20:41.40`	`rev\|lib`	`but`
`20:41.49`	`rev\|lib`	`_Psycho: the ATI in your c700 doesn't do much :(`
`20:41.56`	`rev\|lib`	`rather, not compared to what it could be doing`
`20:42.11`	`_Psycho`	`hehe well its a lots based on power comsuption`
`20:42.18`	`_Psycho`	`yeah indeed`
`20:42.29`	`_Psycho`	`btw, ati is canadian, so i am ! =p`
`20:42.36`	`rev\|lib`	`ummm`
`20:42.37`	`treke`	`ati's are also a much better choice in a laptop`
`20:42.47`	`rev\|lib`	`nmot so much power consumption is the fact that sharp doesn't support it`
`20:42.57`	`rev\|lib`	`and ati won't share specs and info so that we can write drivers`
`20:43.13`	`_Psycho`	`i know that part`
`20:43.27`	`_Psycho`	`they dont want nvidia to copy them ;)`
`20:43.35`	`treke`	`that's a good one`
`20:43.39`	`treke`	`nvidia copying them`
`20:44.00`	`rev\|lib`	`haha`
`20:44.01`	`rev\|lib`	`yeah`
`20:44.04`	`absentia`	`http://www.maincomp.com/shop/customize.jsp`
`20:44.04`	`rev\|lib`	`why bother than?`
`20:44.04`	`George-`	`ATI ROCKS!`
`20:44.04`	`absentia`	`ah`
`20:44.07`	`absentia`	`in brooklyn`
`20:44.11`	`rev\|lib`	`why put features on the chip then?`
`20:44.11`	`treke`	`Nvidia's chip would run 100x faster and run at about 80C`
`20:44.25`	`_Psycho`	`yeah and drain your battery in 5 minutes`
`20:44.29`	`absentia`	`george: I have had an ati radeon 9800 pro for about a year`
`20:44.31`	`rev\|lib`	`just so they can tell us: "yeah, your Zaurus could play MPEG4s flawlessly- but sorry, we don't want nvidia to do the same thing!"`
`20:44.33`	`absentia`	`I just don't have any pc`
`20:44.34`	`absentia`	`at all..`
`20:44.38`	`absentia`	`(to put it in).`
`20:44.40`	`George-`	`absentia: in a laptop? :P`
`20:44.43`	`absentia`	`people say it's a kickin' card`
`20:44.44`	`absentia`	`:-)`
`20:44.57`	`rev\|lib`	`it'd probablty take less power to use the MPEG4 decoder in the ATI imageon 100 in the C700 than it wuold be for the CPU to do all the decoding`
`20:44.58`	`rev\|lib`	`duh`
`20:44.59`	`absentia`	`no, it's for a pc`
`20:45.43`	`George-`	`absentia: yes, well, my desktop has a Riva TNT2, and the various laptops have from Trident Cyberblade i7 to the Radeon M6 LY 16MB`
`20:45.59`	`George-`	`absentia: so a 9600 Mobility is excellent :D`
`20:48.34`	`absentia`	`ya, really ?`
`20:49.48`	`George-`	`heh`
`20:50.06`	`George-`	`only problem is it took an arm and a leg to get it working with XFree86 (ATI don't compile their drivers for PowerPC)`
`20:52.13`	`treke`	`nvidia has drivers for those freebsd freaks :)`
`20:54.39`	`absentia`	`nice`
`20:54.45`	`absentia`	`there's an article on the register talking about real ai`
`20:54.46`	`absentia`	`(part 2)`
`20:54.52`	`absentia`	`definitely what I am wanting to program`
`20:54.53`	`absentia`	`:-)`
`20:55.16`	`treke`	`I want to program as`
`20:56.36`	`absentia`	`For starters, it's a big, unsolved, important problem, which may be amenable to a common-sense engineering approach: first understand the problem, then work on a solution. And any amateur can try it: all one needs is pure thought and a computer; no lab. If some lone genius comes up with a solution, it is immediately testable`
`20:57.27`	`kergoth`	`i always liked playing with neural networks`
`20:57.33`	`kergoth`	`when i was 12 or something`
`20:57.45`	`absentia`	`they bore me`
`20:57.51`	`absentia`	`ok, running home.`
`20:57.57`	`poo`	`kergoth: wow i was playing with lite brite at 12`
`20:58.14`	`poo`	`gi-joes anyway`
`20:59.02`	`George-`	`haha`
`21:02.10`	`*** join/#zaurus gerrynjr (~gerrynjr@h00a0cc36b102.ne.client2.attbi.com)`
`21:25.10`	`Disconnect`	`Reddog: haven't even gone home yet. its only 5:30 here, I don't generally get out until 8ish`
`21:25.26`	`Reddog`	`ahh`
`21:25.31`	`Reddog`	`ok`
`21:25.44`	`Reddog`	`good luck.. the wires are awefully tiny`
`21:26.19`	`Disconnect`	`worst case, gonna just jumper the usb into the power connector and let the cable handle putting it out to the proper pins`
`21:26.22`	`Disconnect`	`but I'd rather be self-contained`
`21:27.19`	`Reddog`	`right`
`21:27.45`	`Reddog`	`i don't think the usb bus has enough power for the Z though`
`21:29.08`	`gerrynjr`	`curious.. does the z charge when it's plugged into the usb port?`
`21:29.11`	`Disconnect`	`in theory the ipaq works (5v, 1A) dispite having a max-drain of 2x what usb should feed`
`21:29.19`	`Disconnect`	`gerrynjr: not yet.. thats what I'm planning on working with tonight.`
`21:29.24`	`Disconnect`	`also, there are premade cables to do it`
`21:29.32`	`Reddog`	`hmm, kk`
`21:29.56`	`Reddog`	`we looked at making them and selling them.. but went against it for power issues`
`21:31.43`	`gerrynjr`	`Reddog> 'We'?`
`21:31.57`	`gerrynjr`	`you from sharp?`
`21:32.02`	`Reddog`	`Five Star Assoc.`
`21:32.06`	`Reddog`	`nope`
`21:32.20`	`Reddog`	`http://www.fivestarassoc.com/Z/`
`21:34.10`	`Disconnect`	`unfortunately, the fcc filings just tell me it works properly between 2.x and 4.xV and prefers 3.3 (..gee.. that I already knew..)`
`21:34.38`	`Reddog`	`heh`
`21:35.07`	`Disconnect`	`..its nice to know it won't microwave me if I feed it 4.2 (and that - bonus - it'll still be on freq) but ..`
`21:35.10`	`Reddog`	`might be better off just getting a cigarette lighter splitter, and using two chargers`
`21:36.12`	`Reddog`	`finding a car charger for the Z that'll actually put out 2A is a bit tough, although, it does seem to run happily at 1A`
`21:36.48`	`gerrynjr`	`Reddog> will your connectors allow a palmIII gps unit to connect to a Z?`
`21:36.51`	`*** join/#zaurus blitzrage (~blitzrage@dsl-223.sarnia.xcelco.on.ca)`
`21:37.30`	`Reddog`	`gerry - you have a pinout sheet for a palmIII gps?`
`21:37.52`	`Reddog`	`we can build custom cables`
`21:38.24`	`gerrynjr`	`hmm, well, it's a standard male connector on the end of the GPS`
`21:39.06`	`*** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@adsl-165-252.freeuk.com)`
`21:40.11`	`*** join/#zaurus Reddog (reddog@du243096.iro.ptd.net)`
`21:40.29`	`gerrynjr`	`Reddog> wb`
`21:40.34`	`Reddog`	`thanks`
`21:40.36`	`gerrynjr`	`how uch will a custom cable set me back?`
`21:41.11`	`rev\|lib`	`19`
`21:41.16`	`rev\|lib`	`million dollars`
`21:41.30`	`George-`	`42.`
`21:42.02`	`Reddog`	`gerry, i would estimate about $30`
`21:42.09`	`Reddog`	`but i'm not in charge of pricing`
`21:42.30`	`Reddog`	`send an e-mail to the link of the bottom of the website`
`21:42.44`	`Disconnect`	`hrm. what about something like this, if I can find the serial pinout for the phone..? http://sdgsystems.com/products/aerlink/`
`21:42.59`	`George-`	`<George-> how's your quest to get 2.6.0 working going?`
`21:42.59`	`George-`	`<j-t3> good! so far hehe`
`21:42.59`	`George-`	`<George-> :P`
`21:42.59`	`George-`	`<j-t3> NOOO!! just broke as you asked NO NONONONO`
`21:43.03`	`George-`	`mwahahahahahahaha`
`21:43.51`	`gerrynjr`	`Reddog> is the port at the bottom a regular serial port.. or is it USB?`
`21:44.12`	`Reddog`	`the connector on the bottom of the Z?`
`21:44.21`	`tux_mike`	`george: did you ever get your laptop back?`
`21:44.27`	`George-`	`tux_mike: got it replaced`
`21:44.41`	`tux_mike`	`george: that's good. amazed that happened.`
`21:44.49`	`tux_mike`	`you load panther on it yet?`
`21:45.04`	`George-`	`tux_mike: panther isn't released yet`
`21:45.09`	`Disconnect`	`gerrynjr: the Z has both plus power. gimme a sec, just had the pdf link up..`
`21:45.19`	`George-`	`tux_mike: bitching about the fact that it's running at 765MHz with a FSB of 102MHz in Linux though :)`
`21:45.22`	`Reddog`	`gerrynjr: it's a proprietary port, has both serial and usb lines in it`
`21:45.25`	`tux_mike`	`george: not hard to find`
`21:45.29`	`George-`	`tux_mike: damned CPU slewing...`
`21:45.37`	`George-`	`tux_mike: yeh, I know`
`21:45.38`	`Disconnect`	`here it is http://www.zaurus.com/dev/support/operation.htm`
`21:45.43`	`George-`	`tux_mike: I can get it off mactorrents`
`21:45.43`	`gerrynjr`	`Reddog> ah.....`
`21:45.49`	`George-`	`tux_mike: I last ran Panther 7b21`
`21:45.54`	`Disconnect`	`bottom right, 'serial i/f interface'`
`21:45.57`	`George-`	`tux_mike: it's now at 7b85 iirc :)`
`21:46.01`	`tux_mike`	`panther is nice, although the secure home dirs takes a bit too long`
`21:46.09`	`tux_mike`	`yah 7b85 is 10.3.0`
`21:46.18`	`George-`	`I've got it on order`
`21:46.22`	`George-`	`so I'll probably download it`
`21:46.31`	`George-`	`anyway`
`21:46.40`	`George-`	`I'm glad I managed to get hold of a 1.25GHz powerbook in replacement`
`21:47.35`	`gerrynjr`	`Disconnect> i've got the antennae from the macnally palmII thing`
`21:47.57`	`gerrynjr`	`III rather`
`21:48.46`	`*** join/#zaurus c0deguru (c0deguru@adsl-159-163-46.bhm.bellsouth.net)`
`21:51.38`	`tux_mike`	`wow. they gave you a 1.25 as a replacment?`
`21:51.44`	`George-`	`tux_mike: no`
`21:51.51`	`George-`	`tux_mike: they gave me ?1600`
`21:51.54`	`tux_mike`	`ah`
`21:51.58`	`George-`	`tux_mike: and I threw in an extra 400 for the 1.25`
`21:52.08`	`tux_mike`	`ah. cool`
`21:52.11`	`George-`	`tux_mike: I could have either got the 1GHz for free, or the 1.25 for 400`
`21:52.20`	`George-`	`tux_mike: pretty brainless decision really`
`21:52.23`	`tux_mike`	`yah`
`21:52.28`	`George-`	`tux_mike: and it looks as though I'll get the other one back anyway :P`
`21:52.34`	`tux_mike`	`heh`
`21:52.47`	`tux_mike`	`reminds me the time when toshiba was just sending me hard drives`
`21:53.02`	`treke`	`definitly a brainless decision to pay 400 bucks for the 1.25ghz`
`21:53.03`	`George-`	`?`
`21:53.04`	`*** join/#zaurus mutexer (~spock@adsl-210-68-119.mem.bellsouth.net)`
`21:53.13`	`George-`	`treke: 400 POUNDS`
`21:53.14`	`treke`	`the smart option would be to take the free 1ghz :)`
`21:53.16`	`George-`	`STERLING!`
`21:53.47`	`treke`	`even dumber :)`
`21:53.47`	`tux_mike`	`george: i called up for an rma on a 10g hdd, they shipped me a 6, sent that back, got a 10, sent the busted 10 in, got back a 6 and a 10`
`21:53.56`	`tux_mike`	`oh, and i sent the first 6 in`
`21:54.13`	`George-`	`ROFL`
`21:54.40`	`tux_mike`	`at that point i decided fuck it. i'm keeping it`
`21:55.02`	`tux_mike`	`they never took my cc number, which they were supposed to for cross shipment`
`21:55.09`	`*** join/#zaurus toe (~matthew@host81-128-98-82.in-addr.btopenworld.com)`
`21:55.16`	`Reddog`	`eh, their loss`
`21:55.16`	`George-`	`hehe`
`21:55.18`	`*** join/#zaurus W8TVI\|z (~zic@3639240124.mi.dial.hexcom.net)`
`21:55.53`	`George-`	`well, I sent a letter about 4 weeks ago to the head office of PC World (the guys I bought the lappie from and the guys I have my warranty with) telling them I was pissed off and wanted a replacement`
`21:56.05`	`George-`	`they sent one back saying sod off and die, and put it back into repair`
`21:56.09`	`George-`	`so I sent it back into repair`
`21:56.32`	`George-`	`then on the 17th I phoned them up to see when I'd get it back, and they said monday or tuesday (today or tomorrow)`
`21:56.59`	`George-`	`on the 18th I received a letter dated the 15th which had a voucher for ?1600 + ?200 for the remaining period on the warranty`
`21:57.23`	`George-`	`so it looks like my old laptop will ship back from repair back to me anyway, and I've already got this albook`
`21:57.27`	`George-`	`so all's well over here :)`
`22:00.39`	`Reddog`	`well you know..`
`22:00.58`	`Reddog`	`when you get the one back from repair... you can ship it over this way... :P`
`22:01.03`	`George-`	`hehehehe`
`22:01.04`	`George-`	`NAH`
`22:01.16`	`George-`	`unless you want to pay 2000 USD for it :P`
`22:01.23`	`Reddog`	`blah, no thanks`
`22:01.27`	`Reddog`	`i'll stick with my Z`
`22:01.51`	`George-`	`I have panther up-to-date on order anyway`
`22:01.55`	`Reddog`	`least i can build accessories for my Z`
`22:01.59`	`George-`	`and warcraft 3 rocks on this machine :)`
`22:02.02`	`George-`	`so I'm happy!`
`22:02.25`	`George-`	`except for the fact that it's running at a ridiculously low clock speed`
`22:02.40`	`Reddog`	`everything will rock on my new box, soon as i finish getting it built`
`22:02.49`	`Disconnect`	`course I could just recycle an ipaq to do that (already got all the serial stuff for it, and the pcmcia wifi)`
`22:02.58`	`Reddog`	`processors should be here wednesday, then i just need ram yet`
`22:06.45`	`*** join/#zaurus stew_b (~stew@csta-19158.communicomm.com)`
`22:20.53`	`*** join/#zaurus Taro (~knoppix@adsl-208-189-207-133.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`22:20.59`	`Taro`	`hi - 2 questions`
`22:21.10`	`Taro`	`can someone recommend an ipk for SSH that works with the Sharp ROMs`
`22:21.47`	`Taro`	`and what is the command to start a java application on the Zaurus? I have a text based .class that I want to try and run, and "java" doesn't seem to work :(`
`22:41.18`	`Taro`	`hmm`
`22:41.25`	`Taro`	`hello?`
`22:52.24`	`stew_b`	`Taro: openssh_1.2.3_arm.ipk works for me`
`22:54.59`	`stew_b`	`Taro: look at /home/QtPalmtop/bin/runprimtest to see how one of the demo apps runs`
`22:56.00`	`*** join/#zaurus br33zy (~br33zy@66-91-245-150.san.rr.com)`
`22:57.20`	`kergoth`	`1.2.3?`
`22:57.22`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`22:57.38`	`treke`	`even debian stable is more up to date than that`
`22:58.12`	`treke`	`you know your in trouble when you can say debian stable is more up to date :)`
`22:58.27`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`22:58.28`	`kergoth`	`indeed`
`22:58.59`	`kergoth`	`err, my 3.3.1 chain doesnt have version.h in sys-include`
`22:59.04`	`kergoth`	`which promptly explodes xfree86`
`22:59.19`	`Taro`	`1.2.3 does seem a but old`
`22:59.22`	`George-`	`COMPILE YOU BASTARD`
`22:59.25`	`Disconnect`	`other than the sharp camera, are there any working (decent) cf cameras for the Z?`
`22:59.27`	`kergoth`	`Taro: a bit?`
`22:59.46`	`treke`	`kergoth: I'll try and do X again tonight`
`22:59.48`	`Taro`	`okay - I can't even use it`
`22:59.48`	`kergoth`	`last i checked 3.7.1p2 was current`
`22:59.50`	`kergoth`	`treke: cool`
`23:00.04`	`treke`	`kergoth: I'm heading out of town on wednesday, so i don't know if I'll get anything useful done this week :)`
`23:00.08`	`kergoth`	`I'll continue working on the postinst stuff`
`23:00.10`	`Taro`	`that predates protocol 2, and I have ssh 1 compatibility turned off`
`23:00.26`	`kergoth`	`trying to get a build -> oeinstall -> oeimage to be happy without any manual changes`
`23:00.29`	`Taro`	`I removed my demo apps, so I can't look there. Maybe I need to install them`
`23:00.31`	`kergoth`	`right now it requires a number of little tweaks`
`23:00.52`	`treke`	`kergoth: I think things will pick up once we can start building images and using them day to day`
`23:00.53`	`Taro`	`I was hoping just the command line would work without *&^%ing with it too much`
`23:01.00`	`treke`	`kergoth: That was the big turning point for me`
`23:01.06`	`kergoth`	`yeah`
`23:01.14`	`kergoth`	`they boot now, just need TLC`
`23:01.15`	`treke`	`I see shit wrong, I fix it and reinstall.`
`23:01.21`	`kergoth`	`i'd like to get this hooked into a nightly build process`
`23:01.37`	`treke`	`incremental rebuilds would be cool.`
`23:01.45`	`kergoth`	`i used to have that`
`23:01.48`	`kergoth`	`before i rewrote the OE core`
`23:01.52`	`kergoth`	`it was spiffy :)`
`23:02.03`	`kergoth`	`change SRC_URI, automatically wipes, downloads new sources, and builds`
`23:02.24`	`treke`	`though I'd probably vote for a clean rebuild for all rc's`
`23:02.30`	`kergoth`	`yeah`
`23:02.41`	`kergoth`	`might want to go ccache'less for the candidates as well`
`23:02.45`	`kergoth`	`just in case.`
`23:02.47`	`treke`	`probably`
`23:02.58`	`kergoth`	`especially if we end up hoooking this into a test harness`
`23:03.01`	`treke`	`I wouldnt mind if it was easy enough to do`
`23:03.13`	`kergoth`	`i dont nwant a ccache bad object leaking into the candidate and making all our tests fail`
`23:03.18`	`kergoth`	`er this is #zaurus isnt it`
`23:03.20`	`kergoth`	`oops`
`23:03.45`	`treke`	`Disconnect: aha! but openembedded is a zaurus topic`
`23:04.20`	`treke`	`#zaurus has a much broader focus than #openmbedded :p`
`23:04.21`	`kergoth`	`indeed. remember that guy trying to claim openzaurus was offtopic for the zaurus-general mailing list?`
`23:04.25`	`kergoth`	`that was funny`
`23:04.59`	`Disconnect`	`'openzaurus help in #openzaurus' .. from the topic.. (not that I give a fsck, its just funny, all things considered)`
`23:05.19`	`kergoth`	`Disconnect: thats a preference, not a guideline`
`23:05.22`	`George-`	`dood, I set that topic! :P`
`23:05.26`	`kergoth`	`zaurus is broadly scoped`
`23:05.29`	`kergoth`	`openzaurus less so`
`23:05.33`	`kergoth`	`openembedded even less`
`23:06.50`	`Disconnect`	`heh. in any case.. which sd card was it that everyone has trouble with?`
`23:07.15`	`kergoth`	`i've heard numerous problem reports against sandisk`
`23:07.46`	`Disconnect`	`thats what I thought it was.`
`23:08.16`	`treke`	`at this point, who knows if the issue is still valid`
`23:08.47`	`treke`	`No one has really said much in a year on the issue`
`23:14.00`	`gerrynjr`	`I had a sandisk pendrive...`
`23:14.06`	`gerrynjr`	`and.. it was stolen..`
`23:14.08`	`gerrynjr`	`funny though...`
`23:14.16`	`gerrynjr`	`it was having difficulty storing data`
`23:14.21`	`gerrynjr`	`so.. i sit back and laugh`
`23:22.07`	`Taro`	`anyone know how to use jeode? "java" from the command line doesn't seem to do it`
`23:22.50`	`KhensU`	`evm i think`
`23:24.36`	`W8TVI\|z`	`http://bash.org/?17271`
`23:25.32`	`*** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-44c14684.dyn.optonline.net)`
`23:28.06`	`*** join/#zaurus rev (~Malkin@24-197-180-73.dul.mn.charter.com)`
`23:30.40`	`treke`	`rev.`
`23:30.50`	`rev`	`treke.`
`23:31.50`	`tux_mike`	`did you order from CA or US?`
`23:32.23`	`rev`	`germany, actually`
`23:32.34`	`gerrynjr`	`wth is absinthe?`
`23:33.11`	`tux_mike`	`a liqueur that is infused with wormwood. it's supposed to have hallucenegenic properties.`
`23:33.17`	`rev`	`yeah`
`23:33.22`	`gerrynjr`	`what's wormwood?`
`23:33.30`	`rev`	`and narcotic properties when dosed below the hallucinogenic level`
`23:33.33`	`rev`	`gerrynjr: an herb.`
`23:33.36`	`rev`	`!google wormwood`
`23:33.39`	`rev`	`google young padawan`
`23:33.49`	`kergoth`	`ibot's trigger is ~`
`23:33.51`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> hey... i'm still below drinking age!`
`23:33.56`	`kergoth`	`~search google for wormwood`
`23:34.00`	`rev`	`kergoth: ah`
`23:34.49`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> illegal in the USA?`
`23:35.03`	`rev`	`gerrynjr: technically, although the law goes unenforced`
`23:35.06`	`rev`	`it's funny how none of these companies check your age`
`23:35.15`	`rev`	`you could be 11 years old and buy this stuff`
`23:35.18`	`rev`	`asl ong as you had a CC`
`23:35.24`	`rev`	`or a back account to do a wire transfer`
`23:35.28`	`kergoth`	`hm, whered i put that url to the place masticator recommended to order absinthe again`
`23:35.44`	`treke`	`rev: I don't imagine it's a big seller among teenagers`
`23:35.52`	`rev`	`treke: indeed`
`23:36.08`	`rev`	`treke: but i can't imagine the other online liqour stores require an id= except for those in the US`
`23:36.13`	`rev`	`i know at least some of those do`
`23:37.33`	`rev`	`http://shop3.webmailer.de/cgi-bin/ePages.filereader?3f9471a903330d52271aac172c270649+EN/products/517002&2D2195386`
`23:37.38`	`rev`	`i ordered that one`
`23:38.58`	`rev`	`i've know a couple folks who have ordered from there (alandia) before, quick shipping nice dude who runs it`
`23:39.24`	`kergoth`	`i should order some`
`23:39.45`	`tux_mike`	`kergoth: code while drunk on that stuff :)`
`23:40.11`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`23:40.17`	`kergoth`	`blah, stupid autoconf`
`23:40.30`	`kergoth`	`yet another wrong program-prefix setting`
`23:40.48`	`treke`	`scummvm will be a fun package`
`23:41.14`	`rev`	`indeed`
`23:41.32`	`treke`	`kergoth: No autoconf, just a bunch of makefile hax0ring`
`23:41.51`	`kergoth`	`hehe, i hate that`
`23:41.55`	`kergoth`	`never know what vars need setting`
`23:42.00`	`kergoth`	`or whether it handles DESTDIR`
`23:42.06`	`gerrynjr`	`kergoth> package prboom :-D`
`23:42.31`	`*** join/#zaurus Marsupilami23 (~Marsupila@152.139-60-66-nokia-static.surewest.net)`
`23:42.38`	`kergoth`	`gerrynjr: prboom's been in the oz buildroot and feeds for some time.`
`23:42.40`	`treke`	`kergoth: it's even worse since you need to add to the ldflags to do stupid stuff like "link to X"`
`23:42.48`	`treke`	`"link in qte"`
`23:42.55`	`kergoth`	`treke: oh yeah, where they dont have a seperate LIBS from LDFLAGS`
`23:42.56`	`gerrynjr`	`kergoth> wolfenstien 3d?`
`23:42.57`	`kergoth`	`i hate that`
`23:43.11`	`kergoth`	`same for clfags`
`23:43.14`	`kergoth`	`seperate defas`
`23:43.18`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: feel free to package it.`
`23:43.19`	`kergoth`	`so you lose things like -DBLAHBLAH`
`23:43.22`	`kergoth`	`that totally blow up the build`
`23:43.29`	`kergoth`	`s/defas/defs/`
`23:43.31`	`treke`	`there are more useful things to work on :)`
`23:43.41`	`kergoth`	`yeah, like say.. qtopia`
`23:43.41`	`kergoth`	`or opie`
`23:43.44`	`kergoth`	`or X`
`23:43.44`	`*** join/#zaurus TheMasterMind1 (~aman@h-68-167-198-14.MCLNVA23.dynamic.covad.net)`
`23:43.52`	`treke`	`or a kernel`
`23:43.56`	`kergoth`	`yeah`
`23:44.40`	`kergoth`	`would be nice to have a package control whether or not it can be built in this configuration`
`23:44.45`	`kergoth`	`ala gentoo's ARCH stuff`
`23:44.58`	`kergoth`	`so it doesnt inadvertantly try building an rmk kernel for a native x86 build`
`23:45.01`	`kergoth`	`or what have you`
`23:45.02`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`23:45.23`	`treke`	`that's a good idea`
`23:45.24`	`*** join/#zaurus cyn (~cyn@adsl-18-193-90.mem.bellsouth.net)`
`23:45.53`	`treke`	`debian does that also, keeps packages from dying on the autobuilders`
`23:46.00`	`gerrynjr`	`you know what's sad?`
`23:46.07`	`gerrynjr`	`IRC is this big blackhole of time`
`23:46.08`	`treke`	`my life?`
`23:46.12`	`gerrynjr`	`all it does is suck up time...`
`23:46.16`	`treke`	`it does?`
`23:46.19`	`gerrynjr`	`time flies`
`23:46.46`	`gerrynjr`	`i've been on since 5... and it seems like only 15 minutes`
`23:46.56`	`kergoth`	`treke: yeah exactly. particularly when we start running autobuild daemons and nightlies`
`23:47.19`	`kergoth`	`guess we could hav ea new function`
`23:47.23`	`kergoth`	`do_supported()`
`23:47.32`	`Taro`	`OK - anyone know of an SSH ipk that works with sharp ROMs?`
`23:47.33`	`kergoth`	`and its return value indicates whether its supported`
`23:47.36`	`kergoth`	`then it could do whatever`
`23:47.53`	`kergoth`	`Taro: the OZ ones, if you convert them to the old ipk format :P`
`23:48.04`	`treke`	`kergoth: Any ideas how we could cleanly support multiple targets for a package?`
`23:48.07`	`treke`	`like scummvm`
`23:48.55`	`kergoth`	`multiple targets?`
`23:49.24`	`kergoth`	`define taret`
`23:49.24`	`kergoth`	`target`
`23:49.28`	`treke`	`Two different build configurations of the same source tree`
`23:49.31`	`Taro`	`kergot: they'll work with the libs that are on the Sharp ROMs? I won't need 100 dependencies?`
`23:49.35`	`treke`	`scummvm-x11 vs scummvm-sdl`
`23:49.55`	`treke`	`kergoth: The build process for both would be the same, the difference would be in the config process`
`23:49.58`	`kergoth`	`Taro: hmm, what openssl is on sharp these days?`
`23:50.00`	`kergoth`	`treke: ahh`
`23:50.06`	`kergoth`	`hmm`
`23:50.22`	`treke`	`or something like vim`
`23:50.32`	`treke`	`you can build a console vim, or you could build a gtk vim`
`23:50.35`	`kergoth`	`thats independent from needing USE (USE would say whether we use or dont use optional libs for things, but not exclusive targets)`
`23:50.49`	`treke`	`yeah`
`23:50.54`	`kergoth`	`well, if vim can be built to support both, or any combination of them, then it could be handled with something like USE`
`23:51.02`	`kergoth`	`like, links supporting directfb in addition to fb and x`
`23:51.06`	`kergoth`	`is definately a use thing`
`23:51.08`	`Taro`	`kergoth: not sure`
`23:51.10`	`treke`	`yeah use could be done for some things`
`23:51.17`	`kergoth`	`exclusive targets would probably be best handled via seperate packages i'd say`
`23:51.20`	`kergoth`	`for now anyway`
`23:51.30`	`kergoth`	`scummvm_included.oe`
`23:51.34`	`kergoth`	`scummvm-x11.oe`
`23:51.37`	`treke`	`maybe they could inherit a common set of functions`
`23:51.39`	`kergoth`	`just include a core set of bulid stuff`
`23:51.40`	`kergoth`	`yep`
`23:51.51`	`kergoth`	`thats the easy solution for now`
`23:51.57`	`Taro`	`kergoth: incidently, Gentoo screwed up with directFB. Links supports directfb if you emerge directfb first - they forgot to have a USE flag for it :)`
`23:52.04`	`kergoth`	`Taro: hah`
`23:52.12`	`kergoth`	`Taro: they let configure decide for its self eh`
`23:52.16`	`kergoth`	`thats not good`
`23:52.29`	`Taro`	`yup`
`23:52.33`	`kergoth`	`imho USE is kinda inflexible`
`23:52.40`	`kergoth`	`in its implementation i mean`
`23:52.44`	`Taro`	`I reported it on bgo`
`23:52.52`	`kergoth`	`single var of space seperated use flags feels limiting`
`23:53.05`	`Taro`	`Yeah - my USE= line is intense`
`23:53.05`	`kergoth`	`i mean, there are global config values, and then package specific config`
`23:53.27`	`Taro`	`you should be able to set USE and ACCEPT_KEYWORDS on a per-package level`
`23:53.44`	`Taro`	`or at least have it remember what was set when you emerged it.`
`23:53.46`	`treke`	`have I mentioned yet how much i miss debian at home :p`
`23:53.52`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`23:54.02`	`kergoth`	`treke: keep in mind this needs to fit into a configuration system`
`23:54.05`	`kergoth`	`ala linuxkernelconf`
`23:54.11`	`kergoth`	`whatever we implement for configuration metadata`
`23:54.20`	`treke`	`kergoth: I meant for gentoo, not oe`
`23:54.22`	`treke`	`:p`
`23:54.28`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`23:54.43`	`treke`	`they apparently could care less about ease of configuration`
`23:54.49`	`Taro`	`since you can set USE= and ACCEPT_KEYWORDS= on the command line before "emerge", all that would need to be done is to remember the settings`
`23:54.52`	`kergoth`	`you know, with slight alteration, you could add into OE the package metadata storage`
`23:54.57`	`kergoth`	`and replace portage with OE on a desktop`
`23:55.16`	`kergoth`	`thatd be twisted`
`23:55.32`	`Taro`	`why twisted? I'm too familiar with OE`
`23:55.36`	`Taro`	`err`
`23:55.38`	`Taro`	`not too familiar`
`23:55.41`	`treke`	`kergoth: you know what I think is funny?`
`23:55.47`	`Taro`	`I hate it when I forget negatives`
`23:55.52`	`kergoth`	`Taro: well, think of it from an automation standpoint. you wouldnt want to have to set per package use flags on a case by case basis`
`23:56.02`	`kergoth`	`itd be nice to pull in a config file that sets up your flags for all your packages`
`23:56.05`	`treke`	`kergoth: All the people who think gentoo is great because it means they don't have to install gtk libraries for every app that might need gtk`
`23:56.08`	`kergoth`	`like treke's suggestion`
`23:56.34`	`treke`	`kergoth: But they don't think of the space used by having to have headers and the static libs for all possible dependencies :p`
`23:56.41`	`Taro`	`kergoth: I mean set them globally, and if you tweak em or change em, remember what was done`
`23:57.11`	`kergoth`	`OE has configuration metadata in addition to package metadata`
`23:57.17`	`kergoth`	`either can be pulled from the environment`
`23:57.25`	`kergoth`	`or from either metadata source`
`23:57.25`	`Taro`	`hmm`
`23:57.29`	`Taro`	`I'll have to look into it more`
`23:57.39`	`kergoth`	`so the user config metadata in ~/.oe/ could easily set all the flags for all the pakcages you care about`
`23:58.03`	`kergoth`	`OE is like portage, but the "ebuild"s arent parsed by shell`
`23:58.08`	`kergoth`	`the metadata is parsed directly and manipulated`
`23:58.09`	`Taro`	`does OE only support QT/Opie stuff, or is GPE supported as well?`
`23:58.15`	`kergoth`	`which gives us a lot more flexibility`
`23:58.18`	`kergoth`	`OE is just a buildsystem`
`23:58.25`	`kergoth`	`you could use it just to build one kjfldjfkljsdkgfas application`
`23:58.29`	`kergoth`	`independent from anything else`
`23:58.32`	`treke`	`oe supports anything you put into it`
`23:58.35`	`kergoth`	`right`
`23:58.43`	`Taro`	`ok - but no one has put GPE stuff in it yet :)`
`23:58.43`	`treke`	`at the moment that include neither opie nor gpe`
`23:58.46`	`kergoth`	`think of it more like make. if you have a makefile, you can build something with it`
`23:58.53`	`kergoth`	`same is true for oe with a .oe file`
`23:58.55`	`Taro`	`oh really? I thought opie was in it`
`23:59.00`	`treke`	`no it isnt`
`23:59.15`	`Taro`	`ah ok`
`23:59.16`	`kergoth`	`i've been avoiding opie since thats a whole big can o worms`
`23:59.20`	`*** join/#zaurus Reddog (~Devian@du243096.iro.ptd.net)`
`23:59.29`	`Taro`	`so is any gui stuff in it?`
`23:59.30`	`kergoth`	`so i keep adding console apps 90% of our users will never need instead`
`23:59.32`	`treke`	`Taro: no`
`23:59.39`	`kergoth`	`Taro: links 2.x w/ gui on the fb`
`23:59.40`	`kergoth`	`:D`
`23:59.45`	`kergoth`	`"gui" is relative`
`23:59.53`	`treke`	`kergoth: deviceisms! deviceisms!`
`23:59.58`	`treke`	`oh and an ipkg install method :p`
`23:59.59`	`Taro`	`links2 w/directfb handles most of my browsing needs :)`

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