irclog2html for #zaurus on 20031015

`00:00.02`	`rev`	`the 5600 has a PXA250 @ 400 MHz, the 5500 a StrongARM SA-1100 @ 206 MHz`
`00:00.05`	`raduga`	`rev: if you say it many times in rapid succession, you may die earlier.`
`00:00.12`	`rev`	`they are different CPUs, quite different`
`00:00.19`	`treke`	`MutantMonkey: A 400mhz pxa255 instead of a 206mhz sa1100`
`00:00.27`	`rev`	`it's like saying a 200 MHz 486 is twice as fast as a 100 MHz Pentium II`
`00:00.30`	`rev`	`which is also false`
`00:00.43`	`rev`	`if the 5600 had an XScale PXA255 @ 400 MHz that would be true`
`00:01.04`	`rev`	`it's around 1.7x faster than the XScale PXA250 @ 400 MHz (in the 5600) or the StrongARM SA-1100 at 206 MHz`
`00:01.13`	`W8TVI`	`MutantMonkey: the pxa250 does the same amount of work at 400mhz as the SA-1100 does at 206mhz`
`00:01.30`	`rev`	`although, the PXA250 uses less juice for the same computational power`
`00:01.34`	`W8TVI`	`true`
`00:01.44`	`rev`	`although the PXA255 uses the same amount of juice for almost twice the computation`
`00:01.56`	`rev`	`the PXA250 just kind of blows`
`00:02.00`	`rev`	`and by extension, the 5600`
`00:02.02`	`rev`	`alas`
`00:02.15`	`treke`	`the 5600 would blow even with the pxa255`
`00:02.19`	`rev`	`yes`
`00:02.19`	`rev`	`quite`
`00:02.27`	`rev`	`i wonder what percent of people with a 5600 bought one because they thouight there were twice as fast as the 5500`
`00:02.35`	`rev`	`i swear, like everyone i've seen on here who has one has said that`
`00:02.44`	`rev`	`we should go back to rating CPUs in MIPS`
`00:02.57`	`rev`	`or something`
`00:03.05`	`rev`	`maybe we could all use AMD's whacky scheme, and let it get out of hand`
`00:03.05`	`W8TVI`	`I read a paper about how CPUs work and they said that a 36,000mhz 8088 would have about the same cpu power as a 1000mhz P3`
`00:03.06`	`treke`	`rev: there's also the part where Sharp is extraordinary deceptive in their advertising in it`
`00:03.10`	`rev`	`yes`
`00:03.15`	`rev`	`that'd do it too`
`00:03.22`	`rev`	`W8TVI: heh, i believe it`
`00:03.24`	`treke`	`rev: Where they say it has 96MB of memory`
`00:03.42`	`rev`	`they also say the C760 has 128 MB of flash for user storage`
`00:03.56`	`treke`	`do they?`
`00:04.01`	`W8TVI`	`a 3000mhz 486 would be about the same as a 1000mhz p3`
`00:04.19`	`rev`	`and neglect to tell you that 64 MB of that is the ROM space`
`00:04.24`	`treke`	`If they do, they'd be lying. I don't think they ever claimed you could store to it, just that it had 128MB of flash`
`00:04.31`	`rev`	`and not usable for you own files`
`00:04.35`	`treke`	`Memory 96MB Total`
`00:04.35`	`treke`	`32MB SDRAM`
`00:04.37`	`treke`	`64MB Protected Flash - secure memory for storing PIM info and applications.`
`00:04.44`	`treke`	`for the 5600`
`00:05.05`	`W8TVI`	`so the SA-1100 does more instuctions per sec than the pxa250`
`00:05.17`	`W8TVI`	`but is more power hungey`
`00:05.20`	`rev`	`well`
`00:05.23`	`rev`	`it does more isntructions per cycle`
`00:05.28`	`MutantMonkey`	`is there any difference in performance between the 55 and the 56?`
`00:05.32`	`rev`	`i imagine it does about the same amount of instrutions per second`
`00:05.43`	`rev`	`seeing how the pxa250 and sa-1100 are about the same`
`00:05.47`	`rev`	`MutantMonkey: almnost none`
`00:05.52`	`MutantMonkey`	`hmmm`
`00:05.58`	`rev`	`i imagine one or the other has a percent or two above the other`
`00:05.58`	`MEME\|work`	`sa-1100 is faster for multimedia etc.`
`00:06.01`	`treke`	`MutantMonkey: From what I've heard, the 5500 is slightly faster than the 5600. But not signficantly so`
`00:06.06`	`rev`	`heh`
`00:06.11`	`rev`	`seems ironic`
`00:06.35`	`treke`	`other than battery life, I'd call the 5600 far inferior to the 5500`
`00:06.45`	`W8TVI`	`the SA-1100 takes less clock cycles to do same amount of instrutions per second I mean`
`00:06.48`	`MutantMonkey`	`what about software compatability. Everything the same?`
`00:06.49`	`rev`	`yeah`
`00:06.52`	`rev`	`about`
`00:06.55`	`rev`	`same software`
`00:07.03`	`treke`	`MutantMonkey: mostly`
`00:07.04`	`rev`	`W8TVI: correct`
`00:07.14`	`MutantMonkey`	`obviously the coding is a bit different`
`00:07.14`	`W8TVI`	`I said it wrong the first time`
`00:07.15`	`W8TVI`	`lol`
`00:07.26`	`treke`	`MutantMonkey: There will be some things that probably don't work well on the 5600`
`00:07.32`	`MutantMonkey`	`did they just do that to make it seem they were making something new?`
`00:07.50`	`rev`	`esapecially considering how few folks have 5600s`
`00:07.52`	`treke`	`MutantMonkey: The sa-1100 is a discontinued product`
`00:07.54`	`rev`	`i doubt there's that much testing`
`00:07.54`	`raduga`	`mutantmonkey: blame Intel.`
`00:08.04`	`rev`	`MutantMonkey: that's all i can figure`
`00:08.12`	`rev`	`and to fix a couple of the things the 5500 sucks about`
`00:08.15`	`W8TVI`	`the sa-1100 is a nice CPU`
`00:08.17`	`rev`	`like battery life and microphone`
`00:08.22`	`rev`	`the sa-1100 is a damn solid CPU`
`00:08.25`	`rev`	`good track record`
`00:08.32`	`rev`	`kicked ass in my newotn and everything after that`
`00:08.34`	`treke`	`MutantMonkey: and they had them bought before the -C revisions of the pxa250 ( aka pxa255) was released`
`00:08.38`	`rev`	`yeah`
`00:08.39`	`raduga`	`the trouble with the 5600 is mostly Intel's fault. blame them for making a sucky CPU, and then dropping it on unsuspecting zaurus users.`
`00:08.39`	`rev`	`and`
`00:08.45`	`W8TVI`	`and you could get a SA-1110 CO-CPU`
`00:08.57`	`raduga`	`not that intel has ever done that before :/`
`00:08.57`	`rev`	`since the 5600 sells so slowly, there won't be a PXA255-based 5600`
`00:08.58`	`W8TVI`	`math CPU`
`00:09.02`	`W8TVI`	`er FPU`
`00:09.08`	`treke`	`raduga: Nah, the 5600 would be a bad device with a pxa255 imo`
`00:09.12`	`rev`	`unlike other companies which have replaced the chip, but left everything else the same (like dell w/ the axim)`
`00:09.23`	`rev`	`i still wouldn't want a 5600, even w/ a pxa255`
`00:09.25`	`rev`	`but it'd be better`
`00:09.26`	`MutantMonkey`	`so is the 56000 going to be the last Zaurus?`
`00:09.27`	`rev`	`at least it'd be faster`
`00:09.30`	`MutantMonkey`	`5600`
`00:09.33`	`rev`	`MutantMonkey: not neccesarily`
`00:09.35`	`raduga`	`treke: the pxa255 is a less sucky cpu. that doesn't make the pxa250 any more unsucky.`
`00:09.36`	`rev`	`may be the last US model`
`00:09.39`	`W8TVI`	`the last US one maybe`
`00:09.39`	`rev`	`but we'll see what happens`
`00:09.49`	`MutantMonkey`	`that's depressing`
`00:09.49`	`treke`	`MutantMonkey: In the US? I suspect it will be the last one`
`00:09.59`	`treke`	`well the last one in it's current incarnation`
`00:09.59`	`rev`	`there will likely be a few more in japan`
`00:10.09`	`raduga`	`treke: and it doesn't excuse the 80286 either, though that might be orthogonal to this discussion.`
`00:10.12`	`rev`	`if anything cuz it supports japanese input better than palmos or WinCE`
`00:10.13`	`treke`	`there have been zaurus of some sort for years`
`00:10.15`	`rev`	`at least, that's what i'm guessing`
`00:10.17`	`rev`	`yeah`
`00:10.28`	`treke`	`The next one may be wince based`
`00:10.32`	`rev`	`the pre-linux zaurus was the top-selling PDA line in Japan`
`00:10.33`	`MutantMonkey`	`what's the deal with the C7 series?`
`00:10.35`	`rev`	`treke: have you heard that?`
`00:10.40`	`treke`	`rev: nope`
`00:10.45`	`MutantMonkey`	`they just beffier Zaurus'`
`00:10.46`	`rev`	`sharp still sells the non-Linux Zaurii`
`00:10.48`	`treke`	`MutantMonkey: they are japanese pdas`
`00:10.51`	`rev`	`not wince, but a proprietary OS`
`00:10.53`	`raduga`	`how is the C7 selling in japan?`
`00:10.58`	`W8TVI`	`I ran windows 3.1 on a 286 with 4mb of ram at about 8mhz`
`00:11.01`	`rev`	`MutantMonkey: http://www.dynamism.com/zaurusc7xx`
`00:11.04`	`treke`	`rev: Are they? I thought they dumped the zaurus-os based ones`
`00:11.06`	`rev`	`er zaurus7xx`
`00:11.07`	`MutantMonkey`	`knowing japan probably pretty well`
`00:11.20`	`rev`	`treke: i've seen retail places still sell them, info still on sharp's jp site IIRC`
`00:11.26`	`rev`	`MutantMonkey: well`
`00:11.27`	`rev`	`MutantMonkey: kind of`
`00:11.49`	`rev`	`faster CPU, a better thumboard, a higher res screen`
`00:12.02`	`MutantMonkey`	`Japan is an interesting culture`
`00:12.09`	`treke`	`"interesting"`
`00:12.14`	`rev`	`heh`
`00:12.41`	`W8TVI`	`stick a keyboard on a can of sh*t and they'll buy it`
`00:12.47`	`rev`	`haha`
`00:12.49`	`MutantMonkey`	`pretty much`
`00:12.49`	`rev`	`lol`
`00:12.54`	`treke`	`yup`
`00:13.14`	`MutantMonkey`	`I went into several computer stores and they had some of the wierdest componets I have ever seen`
`00:13.23`	`rev`	`bluetooth vibrators are my fave`
`00:13.25`	`MutantMonkey`	`components*`
`00:13.27`	`rev`	`but when will we see wifi?`
`00:13.36`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> WTF`
`00:13.37`	`MutantMonkey`	`its coming`
`00:13.46`	`rev`	`gerrynjr: remote control`
`00:13.52`	`rev`	`presumably to connect with a partner via the net`
`00:13.56`	`gerrynjr`	`lmao`
`00:14.01`	`MutantMonkey`	`lol`
`00:14.05`	`rev`	`and have them control your vibe while you control his/hers (if you have the attention for it)`
`00:14.14`	`MutantMonkey`	`already made`
`00:14.21`	`rev`	`a wifi one?`
`00:14.27`	`MutantMonkey`	`Orgasmatron 3000 i think is what its called`
`00:14.30`	`rev`	`haha`
`00:14.32`	`rev`	`nice`
`00:14.35`	`gerrynjr`	`I saw a boob mouse on the interweb before...`
`00:14.35`	`MutantMonkey`	`im serious`
`00:14.39`	`MutantMonkey`	`it was on tech tv`
`00:14.41`	`gerrynjr`	`I think that was hilarious`
`00:14.43`	`W8TVI`	`built in webcam?`
`00:14.48`	`rev`	`that'd be a good idea`
`00:14.53`	`MutantMonkey`	`yeah`
`00:15.03`	`MutantMonkey`	`it was only for the female so far but its there`
`00:15.05`	`gerrynjr`	`now you can see _really_ deep inside jenna jameson!`
`00:15.06`	`MutantMonkey`	`cost about 5k`
`00:15.17`	`rev`	`eww jenna jameson`
`00:15.19`	`rev`	`sign me off`
`00:15.22`	`MutantMonkey`	`some porn sites have them`
`00:15.23`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> lmao...`
`00:15.29`	`gerrynjr`	`just goofing...`
`00:15.34`	`rev`	`if i wanted that much plastic, i'd buy a RealDoll (tm)`
`00:15.34`	`rev`	`i know`
`00:15.37`	`rev`	`just goofing back`
`00:15.41`	`MutantMonkey`	`their ladies hop on and the guy watching controls different aspects of it`
`00:15.45`	`W8TVI`	`brings a whole new meaning to "personal" area network`
`00:15.46`	`gerrynjr`	`you more of the bobbibillard type?`
`00:15.53`	`rev`	`whozat?`
`00:15.59`	`gerrynjr`	`www.bobbibillard.com`
`00:16.04`	`gerrynjr`	`oops`
`00:16.08`	`rev`	`dunno`
`00:16.09`	`gerrynjr`	`WAY>>>>> OT`
`00:16.13`	`rev`	`heh`
`00:16.13`	`rev`	`haha`
`00:16.14`	`rev`	`nah`
`00:16.15`	`MutantMonkey`	`you should check out sextris`
`00:16.16`	`rev`	`it's totally on topic`
`00:16.22`	`gerrynjr`	`it is?`
`00:16.24`	`rev`	`sure`
`00:16.26`	`W8TVI`	`does it run on linux?`
`00:16.26`	`rev`	`some day`
`00:16.31`	`MutantMonkey`	`might`
`00:16.31`	`gerrynjr`	`zaurus powered personal devices!`
`00:16.34`	`MutantMonkey`	`lol`
`00:16.36`	`rev`	`we'll use the zaurus to control the BT-based vibrators`
`00:16.47`	`rev`	`gerrynjr: nah, her big, honkin fake boobs aren't my thing`
`00:16.47`	`gerrynjr`	`look at m3 d00d my l33t v1brat0rruns l3n00x!`
`00:17.05`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> you got the big part right...`
`00:17.08`	`MutantMonkey`	`back to previous topic, do you think the 5600 will take off?`
`00:17.08`	`gerrynjr`	`lmao`
`00:17.16`	`W8TVI`	`nope`
`00:17.18`	`treke`	`MutantMonkey: doubtful`
`00:17.20`	`rev`	`hell no`
`00:17.26`	`rev`	`the zaurus in general won't`
`00:17.31`	`gerrynjr`	`well.. they'll only take off if they were free`
`00:17.40`	`*** join/#zaurus W8TVI\|z (~zic@3639246496.mi.dial.hexcom.net)`
`00:17.40`	`rev`	`and not even god-the-father would put faith in the 5600 if it were jesus`
`00:17.46`	`rev`	`wow that was a contrived analogy`
`00:17.58`	`gerrynjr`	`what if it was a "free" jesus?`
`00:18.00`	`MutantMonkey`	`its surprising they are selling it for so much still`
`00:18.10`	`MutantMonkey`	`4 months and it's still at about 500 bucks`
`00:18.14`	`gerrynjr`	`as in speech _and_ beer!`
`00:18.34`	`treke`	`MutantMonkey: The 5500s didnt sell particularly wll until they hit 200 :)`
`00:18.35`	`rev`	`haha`
`00:18.35`	`gerrynjr`	`man.. this calc essay has gone to my brain!`
`00:18.37`	`rev`	`yeah`
`00:18.41`	`treke`	`free beer?`
`00:18.44`	`treke`	`where?`
`00:18.46`	`rev`	`i only bought one cuz it was 200`
`00:18.50`	`rev`	`(and then sold it in a month)`
`00:18.51`	`gerrynjr`	`treke> free jesus beer`
`00:18.55`	`rev`	`what i think is the worst`
`00:19.01`	`treke`	`I don't care who is giving it out`
`00:19.03`	`rev`	`is that sharp didn't fix the assatronic screen for the 5600`
`00:19.03`	`MutantMonkey`	`im liking mine so far`
`00:19.06`	`rev`	`put a decent one in`
`00:19.14`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> assatronic?`
`00:19.22`	`MutantMonkey`	`its a lot better then my Palm`
`00:19.27`	`gerrynjr`	`the display isn't that bad...`
`00:19.29`	`rev`	`i think i'd like it if i was still the linux zealot i was when i was 16, and never owned a newton`
`00:19.36`	`rev`	`i'd love that puppy then`
`00:19.40`	`gerrynjr`	`and a zaurus is a hell of a lot better than my palm m100`
`00:19.40`	`treke`	`MutantMonkey: The two color palm 3 screen?`
`00:19.40`	`rev`	`heh`
`00:19.44`	`rev`	`gerrynjr: well duh`
`00:19.48`	`MutantMonkey`	`no`
`00:19.53`	`MutantMonkey`	`the m515`
`00:20.01`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> hey... i'm a 17 year old linux zealot.. going on an 18 year old linux zealot!`
`00:20.07`	`rev`	`hehe`
`00:20.12`	`rev`	`my zealousy stopped around age 18`
`00:20.18`	`rev`	`when i gave up and started running openstep`
`00:20.19`	`W8TVI\|z`	`even the the 5500's screen is better than most palms`
`00:20.21`	`gerrynjr`	`as will probably mine....`
`00:20.23`	`gerrynjr`	`but...`
`00:20.30`	`rev`	`the 5500 is better than the shittier old palms`
`00:20.32`	`rev`	`that ios`
`00:20.32`	`gerrynjr`	`I will never run a DRM laden OS`
`00:20.33`	`treke`	`actually that's my general feeling with the 5xxx compared the ipaqs :)`
`00:20.40`	`rev`	`m130 and other palms with the 160x160 screen`
`00:20.43`	`rev`	`esp non-reflective ones`
`00:20.47`	`rev`	`or palm 3c`
`00:20.56`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> zaurus c-xxx series or ipaq?`
`00:21.07`	`rev`	`but no way anyone could say the 5x00's screen was better than a zire 71, Tungstens, or newer sony Clies`
`00:21.21`	`rev`	`gerrynjr: huh? asking me whatyou should buy?`
`00:21.23`	`treke`	`If I spent a lot of time outdoors I'd probably take an ipaq even over the c7xx since the screen is fairly bad outdoors`
`00:21.28`	`rev`	`well`
`00:21.31`	`rev`	`the c7x0 isn't reflective`
`00:21.36`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> no.. which would you prefer?`
`00:21.37`	`rev`	`but it's been ok for me out doors`
`00:21.41`	`rev`	`gerrynjr: c7x0`
`00:21.49`	`rev`	`gerrynjr: uless the ipaq had a bigger screen, then i'd go ipaq`
`00:21.53`	`rev`	`but it'd depend on use`
`00:21.56`	`gerrynjr`	`really.. I have no use for a PDA...`
`00:22.01`	`rev`	`then get a c7x0`
`00:22.05`	`rev`	`cuz you're not getting a PDA`
`00:22.06`	`treke`	`rev: It's usable outdoors, but not comforable to read`
`00:22.11`	`gerrynjr`	`a portable linux pc is what I want :-D`
`00:22.13`	`rev`	`well, you are, just not much of one`
`00:22.15`	`rev`	`treke: yeah`
`00:22.28`	`gerrynjr`	`I _really_ portable linux PC`
`00:22.30`	`rev`	`in the summer the c7x0 was mostly un readable`
`00:22.30`	`gerrynjr`	`A`
`00:22.33`	`rev`	`uhhh huh`
`00:22.41`	`treke`	`rev: It's always summer here :)`
`00:22.56`	`gerrynjr`	`you mean... the backlight can't be turned off?`
`00:23.01`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: right`
`00:23.05`	`gerrynjr`	`that blows...`
`00:23.06`	`rev`	`treke: where are you?`
`00:23.12`	`gerrynjr`	`even on the 5500 you can turn it off`
`00:23.12`	`rev`	`you wouldn't want the backlight off`
`00:23.12`	`treke`	`rev: Southern California`
`00:23.15`	`rev`	`cuz the screen isn't reflective`
`00:23.26`	`gerrynjr`	`the 5500 works fine in direct sunlight`
`00:23.32`	`rev`	`treke: ahh- i'm in MN, where i have the benefit of having a non-reflective screen be fine outside for 6+ months out of the year`
`00:23.33`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: This isn't a 5500`
`00:23.36`	`rev`	`gerrynjr: yes, it has a reflective screen`
`00:23.39`	`rev`	`the c7x0 does not`
`00:23.43`	`rev`	`it's the type of screen`
`00:23.45`	`rev`	`it's new`
`00:23.48`	`gerrynjr`	`treke> er.. lost my train of thought`
`00:23.49`	`rev`	`"continuous grain silicon"`
`00:23.50`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: The 5500 is also a 320x240 lcd`
`00:23.52`	`rev`	`yes`
`00:23.55`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> is it the organic lcd?`
`00:24.01`	`rev`	`don't think sop`
`00:24.10`	`treke`	`rev: We have two seasons really, summer, and two weeks of rain`
`00:24.10`	`gerrynjr`	`those are supposed to be good outdoors`
`00:24.21`	`rev`	`and what did we say about the c7x0?`
`00:24.21`	`W8TVI`	`its like a laptop screen`
`00:24.22`	`rev`	`treke: heh`
`00:24.26`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: The LCD in the c700 is not good outdoors`
`00:24.30`	`gerrynjr`	`:-(`
`00:24.32`	`gerrynjr`	`man...`
`00:24.37`	`W8TVI`	`you turn off the backlight, you have nothing`
`00:24.38`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: with the backlight on Maximum it's usable outdoors`
`00:24.42`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: but not good`
`00:24.48`	`rev`	`yeah`
`00:24.50`	`rev`	`and sucks battery`
`00:24.57`	`gerrynjr`	`can the new ipaqs run linux... or qtopia?`
`00:25.02`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: Yes`
`00:25.04`	`treke`	`except for the 2200`
`00:25.18`	`gerrynjr`	`the one w/ integrated bluetooth and wlan?`
`00:25.18`	`treke`	`though iirc using the touchscreen still crashes the 5500s`
`00:25.25`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: yes`
`00:25.29`	`gerrynjr`	`damn...`
`00:25.35`	`gerrynjr`	`if I got an ipaq.. that would be the one`
`00:25.45`	`treke`	`those are nice models`
`00:25.56`	`rev`	`a friewnd just got a 2214`
`00:25.57`	`rev`	`er 2215`
`00:26.04`	`rev`	`though, doesn't seem worth the $400 he paid for it`
`00:26.06`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: It's one of those bugs they haven't gotten the kinks worked out yet, it isn't that they won't be fixing it`
`00:26.12`	`rev`	`but he's dumb, bought it at best buy, didn't bargain hunt`
`00:26.15`	`treke`	`the 2215 looks like a nice device`
`00:26.20`	`rev`	`treke: how goes the axim linux port?`
`00:26.27`	`gerrynjr`	`what abouth the`
`00:26.27`	`gerrynjr`	`hp iPAQ h1935 pocket pc?`
`00:26.28`	`treke`	`rev: Don't know`
`00:26.36`	`rev`	`did you guys see that story on slashdot about the "first PDA cluster?"`
`00:26.38`	`treke`	`rev: I still need to mail pb this serial cable I have :)`
`00:26.45`	`rev`	`ahhh`
`00:26.55`	`W8TVI`	`"first"?`
`00:27.00`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: 1935 isn't running linux yet, but they have a bunch of code written for the 19xx line`
`00:27.01`	`rev`	`so they claimed`
`00:27.07`	`rev`	`because i was going to say, i did it a while back already :P`
`00:27.21`	`gerrynjr`	`treke> hmm.. but a Z just looks cooler...`
`00:27.21`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: the 5500, 5400, and 1910 work`
`00:27.28`	`gerrynjr`	`it screams of "get me"`
`00:27.32`	`rev`	`well;`
`00:27.38`	`rev`	`that's just zealousy :P`
`00:27.43`	`rev`	`the zaurus isn't worth it`
`00:27.43`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> yeah`
`00:27.44`	`treke`	`just not something I'd want to use`
`00:27.45`	`gerrynjr`	`it is`
`00:27.47`	`rev`	`unless you were getting a c760`
`00:27.50`	`*** part/#zaurus tux_mike (~mike@dsl081-228-056.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`00:27.53`	`treke`	`a c760 screems get me`
`00:27.55`	`rev`	`yes`
`00:27.56`	`rev`	`hell`
`00:28.00`	`rev`	`when the c700 first came out`
`00:28.04`	`treke`	`the 1910 is freaking tiny`
`00:28.04`	`*** join/#zaurus TWCMutantMonkey (MutantMonk@cae88-45-244.sc.rr.com)`
`00:28.05`	`rev`	`before i had a 5500 to set me straight`
`00:28.09`	`rev`	`i considered selling my ibook to get one`
`00:28.14`	`rev`	`and the c700s were $700`
`00:28.15`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> like i've said... the only way i'd get a Z... is if I won one...`
`00:28.17`	`gerrynjr`	`so.....`
`00:28.19`	`gerrynjr`	`let's see`
`00:28.23`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`what are your guy's though on the Kompany.rom?`
`00:28.35`	`treke`	`people seem to like it`
`00:28.46`	`gerrynjr`	`gpe looks cool`
`00:28.54`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`gpe?`
`00:29.07`	`gerrynjr`	`http://gpe.handhelds.org/`
`00:29.12`	`treke`	`gtk base pda environment`
`00:29.27`	`gerrynjr`	`the gnome for pdas, as I like to call it`
`00:29.29`	`rev`	`gtk and x11`
`00:29.40`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: be nice, it doesnt suck that bad`
`00:29.52`	`rev`	`hahaha`
`00:29.54`	`gerrynjr`	`treke> I like gnome!`
`00:29.59`	`rev`	`not as much of a dis as KDE for PDAs`
`00:29.59`	`gerrynjr`	`bastard`
`00:30.01`	`rev`	`that'd be like saying`
`00:30.03`	`rev`	`hell for PDAs`
`00:30.05`	`rev`	`FREE!`
`00:30.09`	`gerrynjr`	`KDe is too bloated`
`00:30.11`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: Shows how good your taste is`
`00:30.11`	`rev`	`KDE 1 for PDAs wouldn't be so horrible`
`00:30.15`	`rev`	`haha`
`00:30.16`	`rev`	`oUCH`
`00:30.35`	`gerrynjr`	`treke> www.blueimpulsestudios.com/images/screen.png`
`00:30.35`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`what's the best rom for a 5600?`
`00:30.44`	`gerrynjr`	`perfectly functional desktop, thankyou very much`
`00:30.58`	`gerrynjr`	`treke> and what DE do you use?`
`00:30.59`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: It may be pretty, but i've found it to be horrible to use`
`00:31.07`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: ion`
`00:31.11`	`gerrynjr`	`ion?`
`00:31.13`	`gerrynjr`	`hmmm`
`00:31.15`	`treke`	`ion`
`00:31.22`	`rev`	`ion owns`
`00:31.34`	`rev`	`actually`
`00:31.38`	`rev`	`my DE is Dynapad`
`00:31.43`	`rev`	`ion just multiplexes dynapad`
`00:31.48`	`rev`	`but still`
`00:31.50`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`treke you have a 5600?`
`00:31.50`	`rev`	`ion owns all`
`00:31.52`	`gerrynjr`	`hmmm, ion isn't for me...`
`00:31.54`	`treke`	`TWCMutantMonkey: no`
`00:31.56`	`rev`	`umm`
`00:32.01`	`rev`	`TWCMutantMonkey: have you been reading?`
`00:32.04`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`lol`
`00:32.10`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`yeah`
`00:32.13`	`rev`	`rather, readingwhat treke was saying?`
`00:32.34`	`treke`	`rev: Did I tell you, ion actually implements xinerama sanely`
`00:32.34`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> on your desktop, you use dynapad?`
`00:32.42`	`rev`	`treke: yeah, you did- which rules`
`00:32.44`	`treke`	`rev: I was astounded`
`00:32.45`	`rev`	`gerrynjr: yup`
`00:32.55`	`rev`	`treke: i was very happy for you that day, such a splendid day`
`00:33.00`	`treke`	`very`
`00:33.08`	`rev`	`makes me want to get two monitors`
`00:33.23`	`gerrynjr`	`I love my lcds as well`
`00:33.23`	`rev`	`gerrynjr: on the desktop, i just use dynapad plus a n external web browser`
`00:33.39`	`rev`	`i'm almost at the point where i don't even need the overhead of ion and X11`
`00:34.00`	`gerrynjr`	`2 15 inchers...`
`00:34.02`	`gerrynjr`	`woohooo`
`00:34.03`	`rev`	`and can just have a three linux consoles- one with dynapad, one with linux2 and one with emacs if required`
`00:34.09`	`rev`	`my main computer has a 4" screen`
`00:34.10`	`rev`	`but soon`
`00:34.14`	`rev`	`i should be moving up to a 5"`
`00:34.24`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> seriously?`
`00:34.32`	`rev`	`yes, the C760 is my primary machine`
`00:34.40`	`gerrynjr`	`ah.... interesting`
`00:34.47`	`rev`	`i'm at work now and use the dual 500 g4 or the PC and not the Z`
`00:34.49`	`rev`	`thought`
`00:34.49`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: My biggest complaint with gnome was 1) the poor support for dual-screen systems 2) gnome-vfs sucks 3) Metacity was missing many features I consider important`
`00:34.51`	`rev`	`er though`
`00:34.56`	`gerrynjr`	`I didn't think that was possible`
`00:35.11`	`gerrynjr`	`treke> ah... have you seen gnome 2.4?`
`00:35.12`	`rev`	`gerrynjr: and before that, m y main computer was a WinCE Jornada 720, though that was only 640x240`
`00:35.43`	`MG_Tak`	`and kde`
`00:35.54`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: Yes. dual screen support got worse, gnome-vfs may have improved thought I didn't try it, and the missing metacity features were things havoc pennington has said he refuses to implement`
`00:36.13`	`rev`	`if it is between KDE and GNOME, i prefer GNOME`
`00:36.19`	`rev`	`specifically, i prefer RedHat's gnome`
`00:36.22`	`rev`	`but then again`
`00:36.29`	`rev`	`i just go into failsafe, ion& and say fuck gnome`
`00:36.33`	`gerrynjr`	`gnome to me... is lessbloated than KDE... if I don't use gnome, I use xfce4`
`00:36.40`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`where is a good site for me to start learning how to develop for my zaurus?`
`00:36.43`	`rev`	`i don't need all of that crap, GNOME and KDE just waste a lot of RAM and slow everything down`
`00:36.48`	`treke`	`TWCMutantMonkey: doc.trolltech.com,`
`00:36.50`	`gerrynjr`	`treke> your opinion on xfce4?`
`00:36.50`	`rev`	`i installed RH8 on the file servin' PC at home`
`00:36.58`	`rev`	`and i was like, damn, this is a lot slower than i remember`
`00:37.09`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: Haven't tried 4. XFCE 3 reminds me too much of cde`
`00:37.10`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> it's nautilus, get rid of it`
`00:37.13`	`rev`	`but then i dumped the wanna-be windOSX 2k and did ion`
`00:37.18`	`MG_Tak`	`xfce4 is pretty good`
`00:37.20`	`rev`	`and it's panels, and it's metacity`
`00:37.20`	`gerrynjr`	`treke> 4 is nice...`
`00:37.22`	`rev`	`they all contributed`
`00:37.28`	`rev`	`xfce looks nice and clean`
`00:37.30`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> it's not metacity...`
`00:37.34`	`rev`	`although too much like CDE`
`00:37.56`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> the use of gtk2 mackes it look decent`
`00:37.58`	`treke`	`oh yeah, another thing that annoys me about gnome. It insists on creating panels, whether I want them or not`
`00:38.10`	`gerrynjr`	`treke> I never had the issue`
`00:38.24`	`gerrynjr`	`on another user.. I have no panels...`
`00:38.29`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: Remove all panels. Restart. Watch gnome create panel`
`00:38.34`	`gerrynjr`	`I use just docklets`
`00:38.43`	`rev`	`yes`
`00:38.47`	`rev`	`that's why i go failsafe`
`00:38.48`	`treke`	`and pop up a helpful message saying it created a panel for you`
`00:38.51`	`rev`	`i can't kill all the shit it puts up`
`00:38.52`	`rev`	`it says`
`00:39.01`	`rev`	`"oh! something has quit accidentally, we started it again!"`
`00:39.08`	`gerrynjr`	`treke> doesn't happen here`
`00:39.26`	`treke`	`even without the panel, it won't let a window move into the space that would be occupied by the panel if it was there`
`00:39.49`	`gerrynjr`	`treke> thsese are some freaky issues i've never had`
`00:40.15`	`gerrynjr`	`my complaint is that autohise doesn't really "hide" the panel`
`00:40.23`	`gerrynjr`	`I want it gone until I put my mouse near it!`
`00:42.01`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`which is better QT or Kompany.rom?`
`00:42.24`	`MG_Tak`	`they have nothing to do with each other`
`00:42.34`	`treke`	`TWCMutantMonkey: You mean sharps image or thekompany's?`
`00:42.34`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`their individual roms`
`00:42.39`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`yeah`
`00:42.43`	`treke`	`TWCMutantMonkey: Both run qt/e and qtopia`
`00:42.44`	`MG_Tak`	`Qt doesn't have roms`
`00:43.04`	`Pendalar`	`I hate xchat =-/`
`00:43.07`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`i must be using the wrong terminology`
`00:43.20`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`their individual guis`
`00:43.31`	`W8TVI`	`its the same gui`
`00:43.32`	`treke`	`the guis is more or less the same`
`00:43.47`	`treke`	`tkc makes it look different`
`00:43.58`	`treke`	`but it's still fundamentally the same gui`
`00:44.17`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`so there is nothing that makes one better then the other`
`00:44.46`	`*** join/#zaurus mutexer (~spock@adsl-210-67-254.mem.bellsouth.net)`
`00:44.52`	`treke`	`Some people prefer the look of thekompany's rom, and they have different default apps`
`00:45.25`	`*** join/#zaurus TheMasterMind1 (~aman@h-68-166-67-58.MCLNVA23.dynamic.covad.net)`
`00:45.33`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`they also have less default apps which i saw as a bit of a plus`
`00:45.42`	`treke`	`Why?`
`00:45.51`	`fliplap`	`you can always remove apps`
`00:45.58`	`treke`	`they took out some apps and replaced them with others`
`00:46.23`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`im having a hard time finding a good file manager`
`00:46.24`	`fliplap`	`i started my Z with the GPE based OZ rom, then slowly installed the packages i wanted`
`00:46.35`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`and dont feel like paying 15 bucks for Kompanys`
`00:46.39`	`TheMasterMind1`	`fliplap: eh? gpe based oz rom?`
`00:46.42`	`TheMasterMind1`	`where's that`
`00:46.54`	`MG_Tak`	`most tkc apps are for pay though`
`00:46.59`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`i know`
`00:47.03`	`treke`	`TWCMutantMonkey: tkc's manager works fairly well, opies isn't horrible`
`00:47.25`	`fliplap`	`http://handhelds.org/~mallum/xpkgs/collie/`
`00:47.27`	`MG_Tak`	`And a lot of their apps are like, "work in progress"`
`00:47.27`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`tkc' manager is great but you have to pay $15 for it`
`00:47.30`	`MG_Tak`	`which is kinda sad.`
`00:47.52`	`treke`	`MG_Tak: Most of the ones I tried worked pretty well`
`00:48.09`	`TheMasterMind1`	`fliplap: cool`
`00:48.15`	`MG_Tak`	`treke: I only was interested in two: tkcKapital and tkcMail`
`00:48.29`	`MG_Tak`	`both are somewhat buggy, and the feature list on Mail is "in the works"`
`00:48.30`	`fliplap`	`TheMasterMind1: its very minimal`
`00:48.35`	`treke`	`hehe, I think you picked two bad ones`
`00:48.43`	`MG_Tak`	`treke: probably`
`00:49.08`	`treke`	`MG_Tak: same here.`
`00:49.43`	`MG_Tak`	`treke: which ones are best?`
`00:49.47`	`treke`	`MG_Tak: dunno`
`00:49.57`	`gerrynjr`	`i'm an open source fanatic...`
`00:50.01`	`gerrynjr`	`just free, please`
`00:50.09`	`MG_Tak`	`gerrynjr: good for you`
`00:50.24`	`gerrynjr`	`I have stallmanitus`
`00:50.49`	`MG_Tak`	`Doesn't mean I don't think good programmers shouldn't get paid for the stuff they produce`
`00:50.58`	`MG_Tak`	`so if software's open source and good, I'll pay for it`
`00:51.02`	`gerrynjr`	`MG_Tak> I never said that either :-D`
`00:51.32`	`gerrynjr`	`I never bought a CD... nor a piece of software... :-D`
`00:51.39`	`gerrynjr`	`open source all the way...`
`00:51.46`	`MG_Tak`	`woohoo, go you`
`00:51.57`	`gerrynjr`	`heck.. even the music I listen to is creative commons licensed`
`00:52.36`	`gerrynjr`	`that desktop was one of the universitie's boxen :-D`
`00:52.48`	`*** join/#zaurus nerdboy2 (~sarnold@arnolds.dhs.org)`
`00:52.59`	`gerrynjr`	`yo nerdboy2`
`00:53.10`	`gerrynjr`	`what bring you here from code-hell?`
`00:53.14`	`MG_Tak`	`treke: do you own Calendar?`
`00:53.46`	`nerdboy2`	`i'm stuck with the wrong kernel`
`00:57.56`	`MG_Tak`	`anyone know what's new in the tkc rom 2.0 ?`
`00:59.09`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`i was looking at it`
`00:59.24`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`there isnt a kernel for beta 3 so im not messing with it`
`01:00.30`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`not yet anyway`
`01:05.18`	`TWCMutantMonkey`	`u guys still up?`
`01:06.17`	`*** join/#zaurus MutantMonkey (MutantMonk@cae88-45-244.sc.rr.com)`
`01:09.39`	`MutantMonkey`	`any one up? i have yet another question?`
`01:10.49`	`sheenmaster`	`ask`
`01:12.06`	`MutantMonkey`	`is there a proper way of deleting 'standard' apps that do not show up in the add/remove box?`
`01:14.19`	`rev`	`like what?`
`01:14.45`	`MutantMonkey`	`stuff like the games and calender and thos type of things`
`01:16.08`	`rev`	`ummm`
`01:16.14`	`rev`	`er`
`01:16.21`	`rev`	`i was going to say, you an't without reflashing the ROM`
`01:16.24`	`rev`	`but that'd on a 5500`
`01:16.40`	`rev`	`you'd have to remount the internal flash as rw (it's ro now) and go through and delete the files individually`
`01:16.46`	`rev`	`it would be different for each app`
`01:16.49`	`MutantMonkey`	`i thinkits the same on the 56`
`01:16.58`	`MutantMonkey`	`k`
`01:21.30`	`treke\|home`	`with the 5600 you could remount the partion as writable and then delete stuff`
`01:22.46`	`MutantMonkey`	`im fighting now to get Kompany installed correctly. Keeps going back to the Waiting counter`
`01:23.45`	`MutantMonkey`	`im gonna try beta 3 in a bit`
`01:24.56`	`MutantMonkey`	`is there a way to get under the loading screen to see wht its doing?`
`01:26.05`	`*** join/#zaurus mutexer (~spock@adsl-210-67-254.mem.bellsouth.net)`
`01:26.57`	`MutantMonkey`	`is zimage supposed to be a .bin or just zimage?`
`01:27.33`	`MutantMonkey`	`nm`
`01:28.30`	`*** join/#zaurus TDT (~TDT@12-217-195-248.client.mchsi.com)`
`01:30.32`	`TDT`	`Hey all. I really really liked in OpenZaurus where one could install from a network to the zaurus instead of copying all the stuff to a CF card and installing that way (also dependency fixes were nice). Does anyone know the locations of what to enter into the zaurus package manager to have it do the same?`
`01:31.30`	`MutantMonkey`	`using a 5500?`
`01:31.35`	`TDT`	`MutantMonkey: yeah`
`01:31.46`	`MutantMonkey`	`lol, i must be the only one with a 5600`
`01:32.08`	`TDT`	`5600 is brand new if I remember right. had my zaurus for about a year now`
`01:33.32`	`MutantMonkey`	`i just got mine yesterday`
`01:33.52`	`TDT`	`cool, how much are they running for?`
`01:34.44`	`fliplap`	`a lot`
`01:36.01`	`MG_Tak`	`$499 retail`
`01:36.07`	`TDT`	`wow`
`01:36.10`	`MG_Tak`	`got mine for $430, new`
`01:36.20`	`TDT`	`still a lot, lol`
`01:37.38`	`MutantMonkey`	`i got mine for 483`
`01:37.48`	`MutantMonkey`	`how are you liking yours Tak?`
`01:38.28`	`MG_Tak`	`good`
`01:38.34`	`MG_Tak`	`got some buggy things every now and then`
`01:38.39`	`MutantMonkey`	`what rom are you using?`
`01:38.49`	`MG_Tak`	`sharp`
`01:39.16`	`MutantMonkey`	`im installing Kompany 3 beta as we speak`
`01:39.25`	`TDT`	`had a few problems with openZaurus's stuff here.`
`01:39.28`	`MutantMonkey`	`hopefully OZ gets one out for the 5600 soon`
`01:39.38`	`TDT`	`What's 'Kompany 3'?`
`01:39.51`	`MutantMonkey`	`its their version 3 rom`
`01:40.00`	`MG_Tak`	`version 2, no?`
`01:40.00`	`MutantMonkey`	`version 2 beta 3`
`01:40.04`	`TDT`	`hmm...i didn't even see that available for downlad`
`01:40.05`	`MG_Tak`	`ah, ok`
`01:40.10`	`TDT`	`where did you find that out?`
`01:40.25`	`MutantMonkey`	`its on their download page`
`01:40.42`	`MutantMonkey`	`only possible problem is the kernel is only for beta 1`
`01:40.50`	`MutantMonkey`	`so im getting ready to see if it will work`
`01:40.53`	`*** join/#zaurus stigger (stigger@p092-n1-gos.nlc.net.au)`
`01:41.15`	`TDT`	`I only see links for version SL-5500 v3 Zaurus OS.`
`01:41.29`	`TDT`	`http://myzaurus.com/downloads3.asp`
`01:42.11`	`MutantMonkey`	`http://www.thekompany.com/embedded/rom/`
`01:44.21`	`TDT`	`ah ok, thanks. checking it out now`
`01:44.29`	`TDT`	`looks like a worthwhile upgrade.`
`01:45.31`	`TDT`	`lol loooks like a lot of stuff to get installed right`
`01:45.56`	`MutantMonkey`	`not really`
`01:46.05`	`MutantMonkey`	`however beta 3 isnt too useable`
`01:46.12`	`MutantMonkey`	`due to the kernel difference`
`01:46.20`	`MutantMonkey`	`im gonna try 1 now`
`01:46.30`	`TDT`	`yeah, I may just wait until it becomes stable`
`01:46.44`	`MutantMonkey`	`their rc1.1 is stable`
`01:46.48`	`TDT`	`my whole reason for reverting back to the standard stuff instead of openzaurus was for stability`
`01:46.53`	`MutantMonkey`	`the 2.0 is what is in beta`
`01:47.09`	`MutantMonkey`	`you got oz to work on your 5600?`
`01:47.23`	`TDT`	`i don't have a 5600 :) i'm using a 5500`
`01:47.44`	`MutantMonkey`	`oh that was tak`
`01:47.52`	`TDT`	`hehe`
`01:48.25`	`MutantMonkey`	`so you dont like oz`
`01:48.33`	`MutantMonkey`	`looks great from the screens shots`
`01:48.44`	`TDT`	`I love it, but it seems that there are some issues with how some of the base applications work`
`01:48.57`	`TDT`	`for example...I was using the TO-DO list to put in my homework from yesterday.`
`01:49.05`	`rev`	`a fair amount of folks don't run OZ`
`01:49.09`	`rev`	`there are some apps which don't work with it`
`01:49.13`	`TDT`	`later that day, i put in another homework assignment only to find that it overwritten my first homework`
`01:49.13`	`rev`	`so no matter how pretty OZ may be`
`01:49.19`	`rev`	`sharp rom is still the better choice for some folks`
`01:49.34`	`TDT`	`so now I don't have my first homework, which is annoying.`
`01:49.38`	`rev`	`heh`
`01:49.59`	`TDT`	`figured then that it's time to reinstall this thing`
`01:50.32`	`MutantMonkey`	`i have some icons that aren't pointing to anything. How do I get rid of those?`
`01:50.40`	`rev`	`well`
`01:50.52`	`rev`	`in the new sharp rom i think there is an app for it in the settings tab`
`01:50.56`	`rev`	`called Tab Manager or something`
`01:51.00`	`MutantMonkey`	`ah`
`01:51.01`	`MutantMonkey`	`ok`
`01:51.02`	`rev`	`i have it on my c760 so i spec it'll be there too`
`01:51.14`	`MutantMonkey`	`where did you get a c760 from?`
`01:51.23`	`rev`	`it came from dynamism, although it was purchased for me`
`01:51.34`	`MutantMonkey`	`how much was it?`
`01:51.40`	`rev`	`$799 from them`
`01:51.49`	`MutantMonkey`	`how is it?`
`01:51.57`	`rev`	`it's as nice as a linux pda could be right now`
`01:52.01`	`rev`	`it has a bunch of quircks`
`01:52.17`	`rev`	`and some failings, like no built in BT or wifi is kind of a disapointment considering the cost`
`01:52.25`	`rev`	`but the screen, which is 640x480 is pretty nice`
`01:52.30`	`rev`	`although not terribly readable out doors`
`01:52.34`	`rev`	`software is second-rate`
`01:52.41`	`rev`	`like all linux zaurus`
`01:52.44`	`MutantMonkey`	`what gui?`
`01:52.46`	`rev`	`the japanese conversion worked out well`
`01:53.00`	`rev`	`it comes with qtopia`
`01:53.11`	`rev`	`although lately i use more of dynapad (my own PDA OE) than qtopia`
`01:53.13`	`MutantMonkey`	`will it run kde and so forth`
`01:53.13`	`rev`	`http://spe.sf.net`
`01:53.18`	`rev`	`ummm`
`01:53.18`	`rev`	`well`
`01:53.23`	`rev`	`theoretically it could run KDE`
`01:53.26`	`rev`	`but no one has ever ported it`
`01:53.30`	`rev`	`that'd be a lot of work`
`01:53.32`	`rev`	`and it'd run slow as hell`
`01:53.38`	`rev`	`certainly wouldn't be worth it`
`01:53.39`	`rev`	`or very usable`
`01:53.53`	`rev`	`you can run X11 in general`
`01:54.23`	`rev`	`you could run KDE remotely`
`01:54.29`	`rev`	`running on a computer with more resources`
`01:54.44`	`MutantMonkey`	`well lets see if 2.0 beta 1 works`
`01:55.01`	`MutantMonkey`	`what other machines do you have?`
`01:55.17`	`rev`	`i sort of have an iBook, although that's now my girlfriends (since I got the C760)`
`01:55.23`	`rev`	`and i have a WinCE Sigmarion III coming soon`
`01:55.24`	`MutantMonkey`	`lol`
`01:55.27`	`rev`	`which will be come my new main computer`
`01:55.34`	`rev`	`the zaurus is my primary box for now`
`01:55.39`	`MutantMonkey`	`wow`
`01:55.41`	`rev`	`i have a k6-2/350 mhz for file serving`
`01:55.51`	`rev`	`http://conics.net/shp/pda/sigmarion3/`
`01:55.53`	`MutantMonkey`	`so youre talking to us through it now?`
`01:55.53`	`rev`	`^^ sigmarion iii`
`01:55.56`	`rev`	`no`
`01:55.57`	`rev`	`i'm at work`
`01:56.00`	`MutantMonkey`	`ah`
`01:56.01`	`rev`	`on a pc running xp :P`
`01:56.15`	`MutantMonkey`	`do you have an irc on it?`
`01:56.22`	`rev`	`yup`
`01:56.24`	`rev`	`i irc frm it at home`
`01:56.26`	`rev`	`via wifi`
`01:56.32`	`MutantMonkey`	`nice`
`01:56.41`	`MutantMonkey`	`once i get a repeater ill be doing the same`
`01:56.42`	`rev`	`but then again, i had irc and wifi on my newton years ago :D`
`01:56.45`	`*** join/#zaurus darmou (~darmou@dyn40.mel1.homedsl.pacific.net.au)`
`01:56.46`	`rev`	`repeater?`
`01:57.23`	`*** join/#zaurus DMark (~mark@sharon.msns.mlf.ptd.net)`
`01:57.32`	`MutantMonkey`	`it sends out a signal from a router and/or captures a signal and acts as a relay point to extend the range`
`01:57.36`	`rev`	`ahh`
`01:57.37`	`rev`	`ok`
`01:57.54`	`MutantMonkey`	`what irc do you use?`
`01:57.54`	`sheenmaster`	`What are the specs on that sigmation thing? proc/ram. The website doesn't seem to say.`
`01:58.27`	`rev`	`it has a 400 MHz PXA255`
`01:58.31`	`rev`	`RAM is 64 MB`
`01:58.34`	`rev`	`CF and SD slots`
`01:58.35`	`rev`	`usb host`
`01:58.43`	`rev`	`800 x 480 screen`
`01:58.47`	`rev`	`touch typeable keyboard`
`01:58.55`	`sheenmaster`	`do you intend to continue running WinCE on it?`
`01:58.58`	`rev`	`(not a thumboard like on the C7x0 or 5600)`
`01:59.00`	`rev`	`well`
`01:59.02`	`rev`	`sort of`
`01:59.03`	`rev`	`that is`
`01:59.09`	`rev`	`i will continue to run WinCE as the base OS`
`01:59.18`	`rev`	`but something you must understand is that i run an OS on top of an OS`
`01:59.18`	`rev`	`that is`
`01:59.30`	`rev`	`on the zaurus, i only need linux for hosting this other OS plus a web browser`
`01:59.42`	`sheenmaster`	`"other OS"`
`01:59.43`	`sheenmaster`	`?`
`01:59.43`	`rev`	`that "other OS" is dynapad, my own PDA computing environment based on Squeak`
`01:59.48`	`rev`	`dynapad -> http://spe.sf.net`
`01:59.53`	`rev`	`squeak -> http://squeak.org`
`01:59.55`	`rev`	`for`
`01:59.58`	`treke\|home`	`too bad he refuses to release`
`02:00.04`	`rev`	`as far as i'm concerned, it doesn't matter if i'm running linux or wince`
`02:00.15`	`rev`	`just as long as it can run squeak, has a decent web browser, and has drivers for what i need`
`02:00.21`	`MG_Tak`	`night guys`
`02:00.29`	`rev`	`night mg`
`02:00.40`	`rev`	`sheenmaster: some recent screens on my c7x0 -> http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/squeak/dynapad/`
`02:00.42`	`rev`	`treke\|home: :P`
`02:00.48`	`rev`	`it's coming!`
`02:01.00`	`MutantMonkey`	`are you actively developing dynapad?`
`02:01.03`	`treke\|home`	`sure, sure`
`02:01.04`	`rev`	`yes`
`02:01.08`	`rev`	`quite actively, although slowly`
`02:01.15`	`MutantMonkey`	`whats the advantage to zaurus?`
`02:01.19`	`rev`	`i work quite a bit and have a full-time class load`
`02:01.40`	`gerrynjr`	`I work a bit and have a full class load as well`
`02:02.01`	`treke\|home`	`gerrynjr: And do you maintain a full PDA environment on top of that? :p`
`02:02.16`	`rev`	`dynapad is a more modern approach to computing. it allows full user customization. you're not confined to what some developer throught you should have. all develmopment can be done on the machine itself, without having to go through a big compilation cycle on a desktop or server.`
`02:02.27`	`rev`	`the system is fully reflective, introspective, dynamic and extensible.`
`02:02.49`	`rev`	`the core of data storage is an object database, which effectively removes need for "hotsync conduits" or anything like that`
`02:02.53`	`rev`	`all data is objects`
`02:03.08`	`MutantMonkey`	`are you going to develop a 5600 compatable version?`
`02:03.09`	`sheenmaster`	`serialized to files?`
`02:03.10`	`treke\|home`	`uness of source you want to talk to something not squeek based :p`
`02:03.14`	`MutantMonkey`	`i would be interested`
`02:03.25`	`rev`	`and since the OODB can be served over tcp/ip, it's just a matter of having your desktop access the database`
`02:03.31`	`rev`	`it's cross-platform`
`02:03.34`	`rev`	`binary-wise`
`02:03.39`	`sheenmaster`	`MutantMonkey: It shouldn't be hardware dependant.`
`02:03.39`	`rev`	`it ran on the 5600 before the 5600 existed :P`
`02:03.59`	`rev`	`it runs anywhere Squeak does, which right now for PDAs is only WinCE and Linux PDAs`
`02:04.04`	`gerrynjr`	`treke\|home> I maintian a desktop enviroment on top of that`
`02:04.07`	`rev`	`PalmOS doesn't have the ability to support it yet`
`02:04.13`	`rev`	`gerrynjr: which one is that?`
`02:04.21`	`sheenmaster`	`rev: Linux desktops as well?`
`02:04.25`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> pendesktop.sf.net`
`02:04.30`	`gerrynjr`	`it sucks right now`
`02:04.42`	`gerrynjr`	`a fork of www.oeone.com's homebase`
`02:05.28`	`rev`	`you can also run dynapad on the desktop, on linux/directfb, linux/qtopia, linux/framebuffer, linux/sdl, linux/x11, other unices with X11, OS X, Mac OS classic, Windows 9x/ME/NT/2k/XP/CE, DOS, Acorn RISC OS,`
`02:05.36`	`MutantMonkey`	`does kpcFilemanager need to run off of Kompany.rom to work?`
`02:05.38`	`rev`	`probably other platforms, can't remember where else`
`02:05.45`	`rev`	`gerrynjr: what have you changed?`
`02:06.14`	`gerrynjr`	`rev> it wouldnt compile for one...`
`02:06.16`	`treke\|home`	`MutantMonkey: no`
`02:06.18`	`rev`	`heh`
`02:06.22`	`rev`	`well`
`02:06.22`	`gerrynjr`	`plus, i'm adding support for the use of a new mozilla`
`02:06.41`	`rev`	`also, dynapad can be totally programmed on the PDA itself, no intervention with a desktop needed`
`02:06.52`	`gerrynjr`	`additionally.. i'm revamping the entire underbelly (penzilla)`
`02:07.31`	`*** join/#zaurus mutexer (~spock@adsl-210-67-254.mem.bellsouth.net)`
`02:07.31`	`rev`	`if you don't like the way windows are managed, you can go into the code and change it- without the relatively large emotional and temporal investment in installing the Qtopia dev SDK, learning qt, fixing your distro so the built env vars work right, writing the code and completely recompiling the whole damned system`
`02:07.42`	`rev`	`you just make the change, and save it; the compilation is done in a blink (for the method changed)`
`02:09.42`	`sheenmaster`	`rev: what data format does it use?`
`02:09.49`	`sheenmaster`	`rev: XML?`
`02:09.54`	`rev`	`no, although you could use XML`
`02:10.02`	`sheenmaster`	`What is standard?`
`02:10.09`	`rev`	`you could export and import XML for documents you wanted to interact with rest of world`
`02:10.15`	`rev`	`an object database which uses its own format`
`02:10.20`	`sheenmaster`	`(I'd rather use serialized Java classes, but I know that's not gonna happen.)`
`02:10.21`	`rev`	`each data object isn't its own file`
`02:10.35`	`rev`	`the db maintains a handful of files`
`02:10.47`	`rev`	`some files, like MP3s or MPEGs remain as files, although they can be put into the db`
`02:10.49`	`rev`	`but why bother?`
`02:11.07`	`sheenmaster`	`How well abstracted is that? What work would be involved in changing the default file type?`
`02:11.12`	`treke\|home`	`because some people are morons?`
`02:11.27`	`rev`	`sheenmaster: what do you mean?`
`02:11.31`	`rev`	`er`
`02:11.38`	`sheenmaster`	`treke\|home: If you don't want mpegs in your registry, don't use windows!`
`02:11.40`	`rev`	`do you mean how hard would it be to change how dynapad stores its data?`
`02:11.49`	`rev`	`the registry isn't a bad idea inherently`
`02:11.51`	`treke\|home`	`rev: thats what it sounds like to me`
`02:11.56`	`rev`	`MS just did a horrible job with theirs`
`02:12.01`	`rev`	`oh ok`
`02:12.03`	`rev`	`wouldn't be that hard`
`02:12.11`	`rev`	`as long as your replacement followed a relatively simple interface`
`02:12.24`	`rev`	`the individual apps don't know or care roo much about the way the data is stored`
`02:12.36`	`rev`	`it just asks the database for all entries, entries fitting this or that, etc`
`02:12.37`	`sheenmaster`	`rev: Let's say I wanted to change it from its format to SQL and I have an SQL library. Would I have to replace 5 methods or 5 hundred lines?`
`02:12.50`	`rev`	`somewhere in between`
`02:13.00`	`rev`	`you'd have to write a couple classes that mimiced the interface of the current db`
`02:13.08`	`rev`	`although, it's not a complicated API`
`02:13.13`	`rev`	`and SQL would map easily enough`
`02:13.24`	`rev`	`so would collections of XML files, although i think that'd be pretty slow`
`02:13.28`	`rev`	`(no wonder sharp abandoned it)`
`02:13.29`	`sheenmaster`	`But everything goes through that API?`
`02:13.33`	`rev`	`yeah`
`02:13.52`	`rev`	`the API manages where you have the data (on different "stores," aka CF, SD, internal, etc)`
`02:14.04`	`rev`	`for me`
`02:14.12`	`*** join/#zaurus treke\|z (~root@lsanca2-ar29-4-41-064-109.lsanca2.elnk.dsl.genuity.net)`
`02:14.15`	`rev`	`in a lot of testing, i don't use the live db`
`02:14.21`	`rev`	`i just have a class that returns static data`
`02:14.29`	`rev`	`not something you'd use in production, but same kind of thing`
`02:14.37`	`MutantMonkey`	`how do you move a program from one tab to another?`
`02:14.48`	`MutantMonkey`	`nm`
`02:14.50`	`rev`	`MutantMonkey: is there a left arrow? if so, tap that`
`02:14.57`	`treke\|z`	`MutantMonkey: with a terminal emulator`
`02:15.14`	`treke\|z`	`rev: oh did sharp finally add that feature?`
`02:15.34`	`sheenmaster`	`'bout damn time`
`02:15.36`	`MutantMonkey`	`yeah`
`02:15.49`	`MutantMonkey`	`whats the best terminal emu`
`02:15.50`	`rev`	`yeah`
`02:15.53`	`treke\|z`	`their`
`02:15.53`	`rev`	`in the 3.10 rom`
`02:15.56`	`rev`	`(and in c7x0)`
`02:16.06`	`treke\|z`	`rev: fun.`
`02:16.12`	`rev`	`party time excellent`
`02:16.15`	`rev`	`although it's stupid`
`02:16.17`	`rev`	`if i move a tab`
`02:16.19`	`rev`	`er`
`02:16.22`	`rev`	`move an icon to a new tab`
`02:16.26`	`rev`	`and remove the app later`
`02:16.28`	`rev`	`it dopesn't know that`
`02:16.31`	`treke\|z`	`yup`
`02:16.32`	`rev`	`so you can end up with dead icons`
`02:16.47`	`treke\|z`	`which isnt fixable within their system :p`
`02:17.10`	`rev`	`yeah`
`02:18.27`	`sheenmaster`	`Twiun: you up?`
`02:19.41`	`rev`	`yeah`
`02:19.50`	`MutantMonkey`	`where's a good site for free programs`
`02:21.07`	`treke\|z`	`too bad opie cant realistically break compatibility`
`02:21.38`	`rev`	`why not?`
`02:21.46`	`rev`	`why not use the same api, but do it their own way inside?`
`02:21.46`	`sheenmaster`	`rev: binary-only apps`
`02:22.01`	`rev`	`or is it there not an api, just file-copying that goes on behind the scenes?`
`02:22.04`	`rev`	`MutantMonkey: ZSI`
`02:22.14`	`MutantMonkey`	`where is that`
`02:22.20`	`rev`	`google.com`
`02:22.40`	`MutantMonkey`	`nm`
`02:22.43`	`treke\|z`	`rev: Its the either we majorlly hack around bugs or have to have the manpower to write every app a user wants issue`
`02:22.45`	`MutantMonkey`	`i was there lastnight`
`02:22.52`	`rev`	`yeah`
`02:22.54`	`rev`	`that would suck`
`02:22.54`	`rev`	`see`
`02:23.03`	`rev`	`this is why i'm trying my damndest to do everything "right" in dynapad`
`02:23.08`	`rev`	`or leave the way for someone to fix it later`
`02:23.13`	`rev`	`because this shit should not happen`
`02:23.15`	`rev`	`especially on PDAs`
`02:23.19`	`rev`	`where they were largely a clean slate`
`02:23.20`	`treke\|z`	`rev: in this case, it probably could be fixed behind the scenes, but it would be ugly`
`02:23.29`	`rev`	`but sharp and others went out and fucked it up for us`
`02:23.47`	`rev`	`only consolation is that the zaurus and other qtopia-based PDAs may die relatively soon`
`02:23.54`	`rev`	`give us another chance hopefully`
`02:24.40`	`rev`	`may sound backwards, but it'd be better for the community`
`02:25.05`	`sheenmaster`	`I'd like to see everything go X11.`
`02:25.22`	`rev`	`i'd be fine with x11, except i think something similar would happen`
`02:25.32`	`rev`	`no reason to fix the problems we already have with desktop systems`
`02:25.40`	`*** join/#zaurus stigger (stigger@p092-n1-gos.nlc.net.au)`
`02:25.40`	`rev`	`we'd have a bunch of half-assed desktop ports`
`02:25.54`	`rev`	`i'd be OK with X11 as long it didn't end up that way`
`02:26.00`	`rev`	`which it unfortuantely would`
`02:26.17`	`rev`	`if a company took the time to make a good PDA env on top of X11, it could be done`
`02:26.24`	`rev`	`some organization with real man power and the money to pay those folks`
`02:26.25`	`sheenmaster`	`FLWM?`
`02:26.28`	`rev`	`to create a 'vision'`
`02:26.33`	`rev`	`and not just a hodge podge of desktop shite`
`02:26.40`	`treke\|z`	`x11 would in my opinion be a better choice than qt/e, but that wouldnt change much software wise`
`02:26.44`	`rev`	`yeah`
`02:26.52`	`rev`	`what would flwm fix?`
`02:26.55`	`rev`	`it's just a window manager`
`02:27.01`	`treke\|z`	`x11 just has better infrustructure than qte`
`02:27.03`	`rev`	`the way our window decorations look is the tiniest of problems`
`02:27.21`	`rev`	`and hell, i imagine (after properly optimized) x11 would take up about the same resources as qte`
`02:27.22`	`sheenmaster`	`The pda-specific stuff doesn't really matter.`
`02:27.38`	`sheenmaster`	`to me at least`
`02:27.45`	`treke\|z`	`rev: it already is`
`02:27.45`	`rev`	`to me it does`
`02:27.59`	`rev`	`the PDA is a second chance to do it right`
`02:28.07`	`rev`	`treke\|z: yeah, but it performs like shit, no?`
`02:28.16`	`treke\|z`	`rev: no`
`02:28.25`	`rev`	`you said it did?`
`02:28.27`	`treke\|z`	`rev: on the c760 it performs like shit`
`02:28.30`	`rev`	`ahhhh`
`02:28.31`	`rev`	`ok`
`02:28.47`	`treke\|z`	`in general it performs about as well as qte`
`02:28.49`	`rev`	`yeah`
`02:28.51`	`rev`	`i imagine`
`02:28.56`	`rev`	`qte is dismal`
`02:28.58`	`treke\|z`	`gtk2 is a bit slower`
`02:29.03`	`rev`	`i'm amazed at how slow qte is`
`02:29.05`	`rev`	`like`
`02:29.08`	`rev`	`i run smalltalk`
`02:29.19`	`*** join/#zaurus mutexer (~spock@adsl-210-67-254.mem.bellsouth.net)`
`02:29.22`	`rev`	`it's like java, but compared to swing, squeak+morphic feels a lot faster`
`02:29.24`	`rev`	`but anyway`
`02:29.33`	`sheenmaster`	`Do you think something like PicoGUI would ever catch on?`
`02:29.40`	`rev`	`a lot of the apps i run in dynapad work and launch a lot faster than their C/C++ counterparts in QTE`
`02:29.42`	`rev`	`which is sad`
`02:29.45`	`rev`	`sheenmaster: i wish`
`02:29.49`	`sheenmaster`	`rev: swing is a bloated piece of crap.`
`02:29.50`	`treke\|z`	`sheenmaster: maybe. It would be nice`
`02:29.51`	`rev`	`i adore picogu`
`02:29.57`	`rev`	`pgui is the bomb`
`02:30.00`	`rev`	`sheenmaster: yup`
`02:30.15`	`rev`	`pgui is super fast, low resource, very clever and still quite practical`
`02:30.19`	`sheenmaster`	`I find it interesting, but haven't tried it much.`
`02:30.20`	`rev`	`you can remote your apps, ala x11 even`
`02:30.21`	`treke\|z`	`rev: my complaints with qte are in many ways qtopia complaints`
`02:30.31`	`rev`	`treke\|z: naturally`
`02:30.47`	`*** join/#zaurus sheenmaster (~sheenmast@Morristown-68-118-103-87.chartertn.net)`
`02:30.48`	`rev`	`i've even run picogui on a relatively slow PDA- vtech helio, 66 MHz MIPS, and it worked great`
`02:30.54`	`rev`	`apps launched instantly`
`02:31.06`	`rev`	`where as i wait for 10 seconds for apps to launch on the Z`
`02:31.06`	`sheenmaster`	`Is the development still in utter disarray?`
`02:31.12`	`rev`	`so i hear`
`02:31.17`	`rev`	`which is sad`
`02:31.18`	`treke\|z`	`rev: btw, you know you can run qte dynapad without qtopia`
`02:31.21`	`sheenmaster`	`Any working packages for the Z?`
`02:31.22`	`treke\|z`	`right?`
`02:31.28`	`rev`	`yeah`
`02:31.39`	`rev`	`sheenmaster: not that i've seen`
`02:31.42`	`rev`	`or else i would've tried them out :P`
`02:31.53`	`sheenmaster`	`I've got a cross compiler on my iBook.`
`02:32.01`	`rev`	`get crackin! :D`
`02:32.04`	`sheenmaster`	`Might as well try, even if pgui is a bitch to compile.`
`02:32.05`	`treke\|z`	`a quick hack to the qt source and you could probably get rid of the titlebar`
`02:32.17`	`rev`	`sheenmaster: have you set up the whole x-compiler environment for doing qtopia apps? is it hard?`
`02:32.27`	`rev`	`mmhmm`
`02:32.29`	`sheenmaster`	`(royal bitch. As bitchy to compile as Windows is to develop in.)`
`02:32.33`	`rev`	`oi`
`02:32.37`	`treke\|z`	`if not you could hack the squeek source to dump the titlebar`
`02:32.41`	`rev`	`then i prolly won't set that up any time soon :P`
`02:32.49`	`rev`	`treke\|z: you can have squeak do full screen`
`02:32.49`	`sheenmaster`	`rev: I'm making cross compilers for a commercial unix app of mine.`
`02:32.54`	`rev`	`sheenmaster: cool`
`02:33.03`	`sheenmaster`	`rev: the host is powerpc-linux, with targets for x86-linux andx86-arm.`
`02:33.05`	`rev`	`treke\|z: but i guess you'd want to switch apps still eh?`
`02:33.12`	`treke\|z`	`rev: why?`
`02:33.13`	`sheenmaster`	`rev: other targets are in progress.`
`02:33.30`	`treke\|z`	`rev: the idea is to get rid of qtopia :p`
`02:33.34`	`rev`	`treke\|z: not sure, just an idea... but you can already run squeak full screen in qtopia, while not seeing any qtopia rubbish`
`02:33.41`	`rev`	`you can also run squeak right on the fb`
`02:33.44`	`rev`	`also through directfb`
`02:33.45`	`rev`	`or sdl`
`02:33.53`	`rev`	`or x11`
`02:33.56`	`rev`	`in fact`
`02:34.08`	`rev`	`on the 5500 i used to run squeak via directfb rather than on qtopia`
`02:34.41`	`treke\|z`	`oh, and you know you want to hook me up with a dynapad beta :p`
`02:34.51`	`rev`	`you're seriously the first on the list`
`02:34.57`	`rev`	`well, after m`
`02:34.57`	`rev`	`e`
`02:35.12`	`sheenmaster`	`rev: I'd appreciate one as well.`
`02:35.14`	`treke\|z`	`rev: I was mostly thinking of getting the free rotation code. not sure if directfb can handle that`
`02:35.21`	`sheenmaster`	`rev: If I like it, I'll help with development.`
`02:35.31`	`rev`	`treke: yeah, it can- i used to use rotation on the 5500`
`02:35.35`	`rev`	`er`
`02:35.35`	`treke\|z`	`cool`
`02:35.45`	`rev`	`it may be done in the VM and not by directfb though`
`02:35.48`	`rev`	`of that i don't know`
`02:35.49`	`treke\|z`	`rotation is a biggy on the c700 :p`
`02:35.58`	`rev`	`yeah`
`02:36.02`	`rev`	`and qtopia+squeak handles the rotation perfectly`
`02:36.05`	`rev`	`yeah`
`02:36.20`	`treke\|z`	`since the default state of the c700 is rotated`
`02:36.20`	`rev`	`i haven't tried squeak/fb out on the c760 yet`
`02:36.22`	`rev`	`only qtopia`
`02:36.23`	`rev`	`yeah`
`02:36.47`	`treke\|z`	`i ought to install squeek again`
`02:37.23`	`rev`	`it's very customizable`
`02:37.29`	`rev`	`lots of people are turned off cuz it's ugly as sin out of the box`
`02:37.38`	`rev`	`all colorful and such`
`02:37.48`	`treke\|z`	`hehe, yeah the multi colored windows were ugly as sin`
`02:37.56`	`rev`	`but you an make it look boring with some boring iceWM themes, install TTF fonts`
`02:38.20`	`rev`	`i should put together an image with that stuff in there already`
`02:38.24`	`rev`	`for people easily turned off`
`02:38.29`	`rev`	`it's not much work`
`02:38.36`	`rev`	`but plenty of folks don't want to do it themselves`
`02:38.43`	`rev`	`they just see the colors and go EWW`
`02:38.51`	`treke\|z`	`ions default theme is perfectly in line with my taste :p`
`02:38.55`	`rev`	`heh`
`02:39.01`	`rev`	`one of these days`
`02:39.10`	`rev`	`i will write ion-ish window management into squeak`
`02:39.13`	`rev`	`because i'd like it :P`
`02:39.32`	`MutantMonkey`	`where can i get some nice wallpaper`
`02:39.42`	`treke\|z`	`people used to think I was color blind since my desktop was always shades og grey`
`02:39.49`	`rev`	`hehe`
`02:40.07`	`MutantMonkey`	`lolo`
`02:40.13`	`mewyn`	`mutantmonkey: www.digitalblasphemy.com`
`02:40.14`	`MutantMonkey`	`guess i should make my own`
`02:40.30`	`MutantMonkey`	`can i make it so the bg is locked?`
`02:40.43`	`treke\|z`	`hmm`
`02:40.49`	`treke\|z`	`matrix 2 rather sucks`
`02:41.00`	`rev`	`heh`
`02:41.19`	`rev`	`k`
`02:41.20`	`rev`	`well`
`02:41.21`	`rev`	`i'm out`
`02:41.22`	`rev`	`time to go home`
`02:41.24`	`MutantMonkey`	`?`
`02:41.35`	`MutantMonkey`	`can you do this with the zaurus?`
`02:41.41`	`treke\|z`	`MutantMonkey: nope`
`02:41.55`	`MutantMonkey`	`that really blows`
`02:41.57`	`MutantMonkey`	`oh well`
`02:41.59`	`TDT`	`lol i liked matrix 2. saw the stuff on the 2nd disk today...makes one wonder how in the heck they did what they did. it was pretty neat`
`02:42.14`	`MutantMonkey`	`whats the screen demension on the 55 and 5600?`
`02:42.19`	`rev`	`ciao`
`02:42.20`	`treke\|z`	`3.5 inch`
`02:42.26`	`treke\|z`	`320x240`
`02:44.17`	`treke\|z`	`TDT: matrix 1 went well since I had no idea what the movie was about when I went to see it`
`02:46.22`	`MutantMonkey`	`lol`
`03:06.43`	`TDT`	`lol, yeah - matrix 1 seemed to have a lot more of a 'surprise' element to the movie than matrix 2. The effects in matrix 2 is pretty good though, but a bit too dense with all the action and not enough covering of the actual story line.`
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`03:26.09`	`MutantMonkey`	`all these people and no talkers`
`03:40.20`	`TDT`	`lol`
`03:40.34`	`TDT`	`how does one do a escape character on the zaurus?`
`03:43.41`	`MutantMonkey`	`no idea`
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`04:27.29`	`ljp`	`canel button is escape`
`04:27.32`	`ljp`	`cancel`
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`06:22.58`	`MutantMonkey`	`anyone up?`
`06:23.10`	`TDT`	`for about the next 10 seconds`
`06:23.30`	`TDT`	`thanks ljp for the answer, been working on homework, sorry for the delay on the thanks.`
`06:33.31`	`ljp`	`:)`
`06:33.35`	`ljp`	`I'm used to it`
`06:39.31`	`MutantMonkey`	`is there a version of air snort for the zaurus?`
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`10:26.51`	`dreamind`	`Hi`
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`10:37.13`	`Siftah`	`what are the other commands you can do at boot on a Zaurus ? ie: CD to load a new rom etc`
`10:37.18`	`Siftah`	`I can't find anything on Google`
`10:41.57`	`jdh41`	`there is rumoured to exist a diagnostics mode ont the 5500, check the mailing lists, its in there somewhere`
`10:45.44`	`Siftah`	`cheers`
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`10:58.54`	`vinnetu`	`has anyone used zaurus with trendnet wifi cards(TEW-222CF)?`
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`13:43.29`	`Meiga_Z`	`12I'm a new user of Z and I need some help. Is anyone out there?`
`13:46.52`	`Meiga_Z`	`My problem is I have a SL-5500S (I think S is for Spanish version) and my question is what happen if I flash Rom 3.10 or 3.13? Can I used the �? No matter if the menus are in English but I need to write in Spanish.`
`13:48.52`	`Twiun`	`You will most likely have to pester Sharp for a spanish update of the the 3.10 or 3.13 ROMs`
`13:49.14`	`Twiun`	`the US ones will mostlikely not have either the keybindings of the glyphs in the fonts`
`13:51.00`	`Meiga_Z`	`I don't know very much of Linux. The Keyboard is in Spanish What happen if I flash 3.10? It will be hung? Is the same with OpenZaurus?`
`13:52.15`	`Twiun`	`It won't be hung - it will be just like someone installing the US windows version on your desktop....`
`13:52.27`	`Twiun`	`you'll have a spanish keyboard but US operating system`
`13:53.20`	`Twiun`	`OpenZaurus has more options but I would avoid them unless you are already comfortable with Linux on the desktop`
`13:53.31`	`Twiun`	`OpenZaurus is still very much in development`
`13:53.52`	`Meiga_Z`	`Yes, but with Windows I need to select de Spanish keyboard`
`13:54.17`	`Twiun`	`there is no such thing available for the Sharp ROM though`
`13:54.18`	`Meiga_Z`	`if I don't do that the system will not recognize correctly the keys`
`13:54.44`	`Twiun`	`and also remember that language letters must be present in the font files otherwise they'll show up as empty squares`
`13:55.19`	`Twiun`	`all this equates to a lot of effort for individuals`
`13:55.34`	`Twiun`	`better let Sharp handle the stress and the quality testing`
`13:55.50`	`Twiun`	`(unless you happen to want to learn about all these issues in depth)`
`13:57.05`	`Meiga_Z`	`Thanks, It's what I was thinking about, that it's better not change the ROM`
`13:57.50`	`Meiga_Z`	`I'm using my Z to learn Linux also and I have installed GCC and compiled some programmes,`
`13:58.18`	`Twiun`	`You're definately going about learning to use Linux the difficult way ;)`
`13:58.37`	`Twiun`	`it's much easier on the desktop`
`13:59.21`	`Meiga_Z`	`Yes, but in the desktop I can't installed Linux neither at home neither at work`
`13:59.45`	`Twiun`	`have you tried knoppix?`
`13:59.54`	`Twiun`	`doesn't require installation, runs straight from the cd`
`13:59.56`	`Meiga_Z`	`Some of the problems I have I thought they will be less with the last ROMs`
`14:00.37`	`Twiun`	`yes, each successive ROM comes with bugfixes, but Sharp unfortunately don't synchronise each country's releases`
`14:00.39`	`Meiga_Z`	`Yes, and Gnome Live CD`
`14:01.44`	`Meiga_Z`	`I have read a lot of Sharp and the Zaurus and I tried to write to them without response`
`14:02.29`	`Meiga_Z`	`I wanted to know what will happen with the Spanish market`
`14:02.45`	`Meiga_Z`	`and the new roms`
`14:04.00`	`Twiun`	`As far as I'm aware, Sharp has pretty much pulled out of the European market`
`14:04.26`	`Twiun`	`They're refocusing towards large enterprises rather than consumers`
`14:04.27`	`Meiga_Z`	`I tried to programme wit qt o qtopia on the Z but I have a lot of problems.`
`14:04.46`	`Twiun`	`and their latest models, the C7x0 series are only available officially from Japan`
`14:05.02`	`Meiga_Z`	`Do you know about a Web site where to read about that?`
`14:05.06`	`Twiun`	`Qt dev straigh on the Z is definately not recommended`
`14:05.23`	`Twiun`	`Meiga_Z: www.zaurus.com/dev/board should have plenty of relevant posts`
`14:06.13`	`Meiga_Z`	`I have read a lot of posts in that and other sites`
`14:06.32`	`Meiga_Z`	`and I can programme console programmes well`
`14:06.52`	`Meiga_Z`	`but with Qt or Qtopia it's impossible`
`14:07.10`	`Twiun`	`It's up to you, but the majority of developers I know of wouldn't even think of developing Qt programs straight on the Zaurus`
`14:07.30`	`Twiun`	`it's just not suited to it`
`14:07.37`	`Meiga_Z`	`the smallest programme Hello World in a window it's impossible to compile in my zaurus.`
`14:08.28`	`Meiga_Z`	`Then I think it's better to wait to learn more about Linux`
`14:08.38`	`Twiun`	`absolutely`
`14:08.47`	`Meiga_Z`	`and cross-compile`
`14:08.58`	`Twiun`	`this is what everyone does ;)`
`14:09.51`	`Meiga_Z`	`Well I tried de DemoLinux ISO , do you know if it is possible to programme with it in Windows?`
`14:10.00`	`Meiga_Z`	`I only have a console`
`14:10.27`	`Twiun`	`I have no idea - never tried it`
`14:11.14`	`Meiga_Z`	`Is it any other way of starting de X other than startx?`
`14:12.02`	`Twiun`	`you can always do whatever the startx script does manually...`
`14:12.06`	`Twiun`	`I'd stick with startx ;)`
`14:13.20`	`Meiga_Z`	`Well, I will search startx in one livecd and I will try it`
`14:13.52`	`Twiun`	`startx isn't a program - it's merely a standard way of starting the X Window server`
`14:14.05`	`Twiun`	`you need additional programs on top of X to make is useful`
`14:14.15`	`Twiun`	`the two commonly known ones are KDE and GNOME`
`14:14.28`	`Twiun`	`so search for livecds that include one or both`
`14:14.48`	`Twiun`	`KDE and GNOME both depend on X so that will be on them anyway`
`14:14.58`	`Twiun`	`hence why I mentionned Knoppix`
`14:16.18`	`Meiga_Z`	`I understand that KDE or GNOME are scripts?`
`14:16.29`	`Twiun`	`no`
`14:16.42`	`Meiga_Z`	`I have Knoppix also`
`14:16.47`	`Twiun`	`definately need to go read some guides on Linux ;)`
`14:16.59`	`Twiun`	`I'd recommend the KDE and GNOME homepages as well`
`14:17.58`	`Meiga_Z`	`Isn't there any way of starting the x manually?`
`14:18.11`	`Meiga_Z`	`A script or something similar?`
`14:18.13`	`Twiun`	`there is, but there would be no point`
`14:18.25`	`Twiun`	`startx is a script, it starts X`
`14:19.20`	`Meiga_Z`	`Well I think I will try to read statx or go to Gnome`
`14:19.28`	`Meiga_Z`	`Thanks for all`
`14:20.26`	`Twiun`	`you're welcome`
`14:21.04`	`Twiun`	`too much hand-holding just isn't good ;)`
`14:22.37`	`Meiga_Z`	`I prefer Linux but it's very difficult to have only Linux at home`
`14:23.21`	`Meiga_Z`	`And with My computer 2HD of 6.4 a 5 GB impossible to have both S.O. at the same time`
`14:23.27`	`Twiun`	`my issues are more with Windows pretending it's monolithic when it certainly isn't`
`14:24.44`	`Meiga_Z`	`I would change my computer but at this moment I can survive`
`14:25.13`	`Meiga_Z`	`and the only thing that I really learned with computers that is true is that`
`14:25.52`	`Meiga_Z`	`it's better to wait to change your computer until it's totally impossible to continue with it.`
`14:28.23`	`Meiga_Z`	`I have to go out thanks another time for all and I will continue learning Linux with my Zaurus :-D`
`14:29.12`	`Twiun`	`;)`
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`19:57.35`	`MutantMonkey`	`hello all`
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`19:59.57`	`*** topic/#zaurus is Zaurus Discussion - http://www.zaurus.com/ - http://myzaurus.com/ \| OpenZaurus help in #openzaurus (george-)`
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`20:00.22`	`pHluid`	`v`
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`20:32.43`	`o2Slim`	`Stupid question for anyone who may know, a lot of software I download my 5600 doesn't reconize that the .ipk has anything in it.`
`20:33.02`	`treke`	`you are probably downloading ipks from openzaurus`
`20:33.34`	`o2Slim`	`DOwnloading them from www.zaurussoftware.com`
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`20:49.24`	`treke`	`_Psycho: you using sash's image?`
`20:50.24`	`treke`	`hmmm. I have a 256MB card with me, I'll just reflash`
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`21:26.46`	`prodan`	`hi ho`
`21:27.15`	`*** part/#zaurus prodan (~root@p508B99C1.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`21:27.32`	`*** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-44c14684.dyn.optonline.net)`
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`22:16.09`	`MG_Tak`	`ChipX86: is buddly list support for AIM in gaim ever going to not work oddly?`
`22:16.20`	`ChipX86`	`define oddly`
`22:17.18`	`MG_Tak`	`Doesn't seem to follow the sorting set in Windows AIM, not even for groups, and doesn't honor changes made in windows`
`22:19.14`	`raduga`	`since when has Windows ever been honorable?`
`22:19.38`	`ChipX86`	`MG_Tak: that's a local bug and it will be fixed`
`22:19.52`	`MG_Tak`	`is that the smartest comment you can come up with or can you find something more retarded to say?`
`22:19.56`	`MG_Tak`	`ChipX86: 'local' ?`
`22:20.05`	`ChipX86`	`qpe-gaim that is`
`22:20.59`	`ChipX86`	`ah`
`22:21.05`	`ChipX86`	`you'll have to ask KingAnt about that one`
`22:22.32`	`_munky`	`hey`
`22:22.34`	`_munky`	`i need some help`
`22:22.37`	`_munky`	`i installed xmms`
`22:22.43`	`_munky`	`and i cant run it through the desktop`
`22:22.49`	`_munky`	`but it does work when i use the command`
`22:23.40`	`MG_Tak`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:24.02`	`_munky`	`well its on the zaurus`
`22:24.05`	`_munky`	`put it this way`
`22:24.12`	`_munky`	`can i make my own desktop links?`
`22:24.42`	`MG_Tak`	`yeah`
`22:24.53`	`MG_Tak`	`well, in the Sharp rom you can`
`22:25.40`	`_munky`	`bah ok`
`22:26.02`	`MG_Tak`	`_munky: what're you running?`
`22:27.14`	`_munky`	`tkc`
`22:27.16`	`_munky`	`i hate it`
`22:27.23`	`MG_Tak`	`tkc has a settings tab, right?`
`22:27.28`	`_munky`	`yup`
`22:27.38`	`_munky`	`onme sec`
`22:27.39`	`MG_Tak`	`Does it have a "Tab Setting" app?`
`22:28.08`	`_munky`	`brb`
`22:29.00`	`_munky`	`it does i just updaetd the tabs..`
`22:29.08`	`_munky`	`ill let you know if it worked`
`22:29.17`	`_munky`	`which rom do you run?`
`22:30.25`	`_munky`	`it beings to load but just stops`
`22:30.30`	`_munky`	`i dont understand it!`
`22:30.43`	`MG_Tak`	`with about 100% satisfaction`
`22:30.54`	`_munky`	`i have the 5600`
`22:31.03`	`_munky`	`im not sure that they have the rom there?`
`22:31.05`	`_munky`	`do they`
`22:31.25`	`MG_Tak`	`I updated the kernel to add IPsec support, that's all`
`22:32.18`	`_munky`	`do you know if i can backup my address book and restore it onto the sharp?`
`22:32.56`	`MG_Tak`	`if it's the original address book, I don't see a reason why not`
`22:33.19`	`_munky`	`do you know where the file is located?`
`22:33.29`	`MG_Tak`	`no`
`22:33.44`	`_munky`	`bah`
`22:40.34`	`_munky`	`does anyone in here know where i file containing the addressbook is kept?`
`22:41.05`	`treke`	`~/Applications/addressbook/`
`22:41.35`	`_munky`	`that has the data?`
`22:41.56`	`treke`	`no, I just said it for no reason`
`22:42.16`	`_munky`	`lol`
`22:42.32`	`_munky`	`it only seems to have my info`
`22:44.03`	`_munky`	`hello..`
`22:44.05`	`_munky`	`you there?`
`22:44.10`	`_munky`	`i wan the info for all the users`
`22:44.24`	`_munky`	`so when i switch the rom i can still have my addressbook`
`22:47.15`	`treke`	`backup all of ~`
`22:51.54`	`_munky`	`are you sure that will work?`
`22:52.00`	`_munky`	`i really dont know i can take the chance`
`22:52.49`	`MG_Tak`	`_munky: then don't make the change`
`22:54.42`	`ljp`	`anyone here know anything about zSMS, like where the download page went?`
`22:55.38`	`_munky`	`hmm`
`22:55.50`	`_munky`	`so are you positive it is safe if i backup the ~ ?`
`22:56.12`	`kergoth`	`thats where your data is. no one is making guarantees.`
`22:56.40`	`MG_Tak`	`can Qtopia desktop import data?`
`23:02.30`	`*** join/#zaurus blitzrage_ (~blitzrage@dsl-70.sarnia.xcelco.on.ca)`
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`23:07.44`	`gerrynjr`	`does SDl work in OZ?`
`23:07.53`	`kergoth`	`afaik.`
`23:08.15`	`treke`	`gerrynjr: no`
`23:08.19`	`treke`	`oh well it does on 5500s`
`23:08.27`	`treke`	`ignore me`
`23:08.29`	`gerrynjr`	`treke> that's all I need to know :-D`
`23:08.48`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`23:09.10`	`gerrynjr`	`i'll have a Z by the end of this month :-D`
`23:10.23`	`MG_Tak`	`what's SDI?`
`23:10.37`	`gerrynjr`	`SDL`
`23:10.43`	`gerrynjr`	`it was a lowercase L`
`23:11.32`	`MG_Tak`	`oh`
`23:22.30`	`*** join/#zaurus jumpkick (~chatzilla@CPE0080c6f0e7ba-CM014500002511.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`23:32.01`	`*** join/#zaurus rev\|z (~zic@24-197-180-73.dul.mn.charter.com)`
`23:40.49`	`treke`	`~lart rev\|z`
`23:40.57`	`MG_Tak`	`ow`

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