irclog2html for #zaurus on 20030907

00:15.20*** join/#zaurus Pendalar (~user@68.114.156.106)
00:23.37*** join/#zaurus stigger (stigger@p051-n1-gos.nlc.net.au)
01:31.40*** join/#zaurus TCMAN (~dominik@adsl-64-170-122-35.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)
01:31.43TCMANhi
01:33.28tanqhey
01:36.17TCMANwhats new?
01:50.53*** join/#zaurus Pendalar_ (~user@68.114.156.106)
01:57.10treke|homeTCMAN: so you got the hook ups with the imageon guys?
02:03.57TCMANtreke: yes i can find them
02:04.31TCMANtreke: they are in different office but i remember i forwarded one email from kergoth to them
02:04.36treke|homecool
02:05.52Pendalar_bah I hate scsi =-/
02:31.23treke|homeso this is cool. Spend an hour and a half coding on the c760. The keyboard is pretty darn good for python
02:33.18Pendalar_yeah must be nice *cough*bastard*cough*
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03:13.54tanqsup
03:15.08*** join/#zaurus Cameron (~Cameron@keybiscayne.erensfamily.com)
03:34.33*** join/#zaurus W8TVI (~W8TVIz@3639239384.mi.dial.hexcom.net)
03:46.52VampireZIMthat new yopy is stupid
03:47.11W8TVIyeah?
03:47.16VampireZIMyea
04:03.42Cameronthis is really annoying...I now have a Socket CompactFlash Wifi card for my Z C700, and it seems to be recognized ok except that I can't assign it an IP in ifconfig!
04:03.53CameronIs there some special package/patch I need to install to get this to work?
04:05.42koyotehrm
04:05.54koyotewhat does infconfig -a show you?
04:06.23Cameroneth0 and lo
04:06.32Cameronwith no ip yet associated for eth0
04:06.46koyoteI get wlan0
04:06.47CameronLink encap: Eternet, MTU:1500
04:06.51Cameronhmm
04:06.53Cameronstrange
04:07.06koyoteyou may not be seeing the wlan card properly
04:07.08Cameronno device found for that one
04:07.17koyotebasically, this is what I had to do:
04:07.21Cameronkoyote: which device + rom do you have again?
04:08.10koyote1: load a kernel from shepherd unofficial and an initrd.bin from husky. Then
04:08.28koyotethen i had to edit the config file to match my card, becdause there are sometimes variants in the cards
04:08.37koyotethen I rebooted and everything worked :)
04:08.49Cameronah
04:08.59CameronI somehow thought it wouldn't work with OZ because I didn't see any module for it
04:09.16Cameronbut in retrospect, it makes sense that maybe it would just be a configuration thing...
04:09.20treke|homeIt works just fine with OZ
04:09.21koyotemy card is a buffalo, but the stock config file says -
04:09.24Cameronso how did you edit the configuration?
04:09.40Camerontreke|home: What did you have to do to get it working on OZ?
04:09.53CameronIt wasn't recognized automatically for me
04:09.54treke|homePlug the card in
04:10.18Cameronthat's the thing -- maybe my kernel didn't support it?  or is this even a function of the zImage.bin?
04:10.32koyotehere
04:10.33treke|homezImage.bin is the kernel
04:10.36koyotethis is what I have
04:10.37koyotecard "Buffalo WLI2-CF-S11"
04:10.37koyote<PROTECTED>
04:10.37koyote<PROTECTED>
04:10.37koyote<PROTECTED>
04:10.40CameronI don't quite understand the driver separation in OZ
04:10.59koyotewhat was orginally in the config was "WLI-CF-S11G"
04:10.59treke|homekoyote: you are missing the point. The pcmcia_cs package in OZ is preconfigured for the Socket card
04:11.12koyotesame card, min eif from .jp and reports different
04:11.16kergothactually its orinoco that includes the driver and config for socket/symbol
04:11.18kergothbrb
04:11.18koyotestill orinoco, still works
04:11.30VampireZIMlol, there are actually people that get sexually arroused by baloons
04:11.33koyotes/min eif/mine is/
04:11.53koyoteI am not sure how it would work on a 700
04:12.02Cameronhmm
04:12.05koyotebut the shepherd zImage and husky initrd works
04:12.10koyoteon a 750 :)
04:12.19koyoteand it loads my sd card, too
04:12.23treke|homethere is no difference between a shepherd and husky initrd
04:12.24treke|home:)
04:12.31koyoteoh yeah there is
04:12.37treke|homekoyote: No there isnt
04:12.38Cameronwhat I was trying before was the Shepherd zImage and Mithro/Tima's initrd.bin which was made last week
04:12.41koyotehell, run md5sum on it
04:13.17treke|homekoyote: and? Two different shepherd  initrds will have different md5sums
04:13.25koyote16.7MB for one 16.6MB for the other
04:13.35koyotethe *sizes* are different
04:13.44koyotehttp://www.openzaurus.org/unofficial/experimental/husky/
04:13.55treke|homeThose are two different images built on different days
04:14.09koyotethey are *different*
04:14.17treke|homekoyote: No shit
04:14.37koyoteuse the AVAILABLE zImage in the shepherd directory and the AVAILABLE initrd.bin from the husky directory
04:14.41koyotethere, is that satisfactory?
04:15.27CameronI still don't understand though: How can I get my Socket card working under OZ?  Do I a) Use a different zImage.bin b) Use a different initrd.bin c) Configure OZ to recognize the card d) Install some extra .ipk which includes the driver?
04:15.31treke|homeI was just clarifying that the image in the husky directory is in fact a completly valid shepherd image
04:15.42treke|homeThere is nothing that differentiates the two at this point
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04:15.52treke|homeother than which directory it was put in
04:16.07koyotewell, I know it's valid
04:16.09koyoteI'm running it
04:16.20treke|homeOther people may think it's pure luck
04:16.29koyoteCameron: not quite that hard
04:16.55treke|homekergoth: We might want to combine the two into one build for maintainability.
04:16.55koyoteCameron: zImage form the shepherd directory, initrd from the husky directory. see what happens
04:17.03koyotethen we can worry about tweaking config files if needed
04:17.09treke|homekergoth: just generate the two different kernels
04:17.11Cameronkoyote: but -- I have a C700
04:17.23koyotecameron: which means it might not work :)
04:17.28Cameronlol
04:17.41Cameronkoyote: but I want a way that WILL work -- that's the point!
04:18.07treke|homemaybe even 75/25 in favor
04:18.08koyotewell, you won't know until you try- unless someone here knows  that is won't
04:18.17Cameronlol
04:18.18Cameronok
04:18.23koyoteor even in #openzaurus if we went there :)
04:18.25Cameronany ideas after that then?
04:18.29koyotesure.
04:18.33Cameron(if that fails)
04:18.39koyotewhat carde do you have?
04:18.42koyote-e
04:18.46CameronCF and SD
04:18.49CameronSocket
04:18.51Cameronsorry
04:18.55CameronSocket CF
04:18.59treke|homeactually I take that back
04:19.04koyotewell, if it doesn't work initially, we can edit the config file
04:19.09koyotetreke: ?
04:19.18Camerontreke|home: what are the final odds then ;-) ?
04:19.33koyote99.4% ? <stats joke>
04:19.37Cameronkoyote: but if it doesen't work @ all...
04:19.48koyotethen we look at things then.
04:20.07treke|homeoh wait, it's called kernel-c700 not kernel-corgi:p
04:20.09treke|home:q
04:20.16koyotenot really worht researching corgi options until we know (especially since i don't have one and don't know)
04:20.37Cameronok
04:20.44CameronI'll try it right now
04:21.10koyoteI think i need to soon start configuring this so that I can install packages
04:21.47treke|homekoyote: Actually Yes, I think my guess is as close to 100% as possible while leaving wiggle room :p
04:22.09Cameronwhat dev would a usb CF card reader appear as under Linux?
04:22.39treke|homekoyote: All three use the same kernel tree, so I cant think of any reason why a rootfs for one wouldnt work on the other
04:23.01koyotethis is good for Cameron :)
04:23.10Cameronyup
04:23.11koyoteand for my documentation
04:23.25Cameronbut I need to get the images over to the Zaurus, and that means USB card reader under Linux!
04:23.29koyotethough I may have to seriously edit the docco if kergoth moves stuff around.
04:23.59treke|homeI just cant say as certainly as for the c760 since I didnt just make them by doing "cp def-configs/shepherd-opie to def-configs/husky-opie :p
04:24.01koyoteCameron: hrm? don't have one? you cna install from cf and then remove it, after all.
04:24.36CameronI just can't figure out how to get it working under Linux, that's all -- haven't used it under Linux for a year
04:24.49ChipX86|Codingtreke|home: when you were playing with gnutls, did you build packages, or just cross-compiled?
04:24.54koyoteI may try and get usb networking working. there's stuff in the corgi kg feed.
04:24.59treke|homeChipX86|Coding: I built packages
04:25.01koyotewhich i assume will work on the 750
04:25.31treke|homekoyote: The usbnetworking driver for shepherd and husky ( and probably corgi) doesnt work
04:25.34koyotethe shepherd unofficial has no feed, the husky lacks everything not installed already that I need, and the corgi has it all.
04:25.49ChipX86|Codingtreke|home: cool. Can I get copies?
04:26.00treke|homekoyote: What do you need?
04:26.00koyotetreke: okay. i may even dig into it. I'm better at documentation, honestly (strange and boring, but true)
04:26.28treke|homeChipX86|Coding: I dont have them onhand, but I can rebuild them. It's all in buildroot if you have a built copy around
04:26.29koyotetrke: gcc, perl, python, some etc. I've copied the corgi feed onto the sd card. guess I can try.
04:26.37treke|homePerl doesnt build.
04:26.51koyoteperl is in the corgi feed packaged?
04:26.53treke|homeI think python is in the feed since I have it on my c760
04:27.08treke|homekoyote: might be, I think the corgi feed is fairly old
04:27.15koyotegnu utils would be nice, too.
04:27.26treke|homeare they in the corgi feed?
04:27.30koyotebut gcc and associated apps would be really really nice
04:28.08koyoteutil-linux-* ?
04:28.32koyotevim is in there, and - well, it's all up on the web :)
04:29.08koyoteI'm game to test if you want to expand the 750/760 feed and make a same coordinated tree of the whole thing
04:29.23koyotemore than happy, and i'll help document procedures.
04:30.15treke|homeChipX86|Coding: http://ent.brooks.edu/~ggilbert/ssl/
04:30.50kergothkoyote: we're beginning a transision to a new build infrastructure
04:30.59treke|hometoo much stuff needs fixing and ported to the new buildsystem
04:30.59kergothkoyote: anything you add will just need conversion anyway..
04:31.02kergothyep
04:31.18koyotekergoth: I'll keep notes and not publish until there's something new, then.
04:31.25ChipX86|Codingtreke|home: thanks
04:31.44treke|homeI havent actually tried using them for anything though, so tell me if there are problems :p
04:31.45koyoteI *do* think that links-ssl is probably less than random for an embedded linux.
04:31.52koyote:)
04:32.36koyoteand even just knowing that you should pull one bit out of one directory and the other bit out of another directory is a great help in getting a working shepherd system
04:33.14treke|hometoo bad the zaurus bootloader sucks, or we could probably use the same freaking zImage also
04:34.07koyotenot impossible to have one directory with a zImage.shepherd and a zImage.husky and a single initrd.bin
04:34.30koyoteor even have the initrd.bin in both directories be a link to a cvs controlled master
04:35.54koyoteone of the best things about making it easy for users to use is that you get fewer stuid questions. I've laready got 4 pages of explanations of stuff I didn't evne know about the 7x0 series which is incredibly useful if you want to do things like- flash :)
04:37.09*** join/#zaurus Cameron (~Cameron@keybiscayne.erensfamily.com)
04:37.16Cameronflashing...
04:37.21Cameronwish me luck!
04:38.26treke|homeif we release images more often we get tons of questions about things that dont work. If we release less often people try building their own images which opens up a whole other can of worms
04:38.58Camerontreke|home: so you've discovered, eh? ;-)
04:39.15ChipX86|Codinghate that situation..
04:39.28ChipX86|Codingthere really isn't an answer to it, except to pick one and deal with the users who complain
04:40.25CameronI think the compromise would be to release the images more often but also put text files with small summaries of what does and doesen't work
04:40.45Cameronof course, that would initially be more work for you, but for the end user it would make everything SO much easier
04:41.12koyotetreke: well, i think a solid docco set will ease that a lot.
04:41.14Cameronfor example ('you can use the Husky initrd with the C700 since we don't provide an up to date one...')
04:41.30koyoteand you have a volunteer for doc.
04:41.39Cameronbtw, treke, koyote, the husky initrd has worked
04:41.44treke|homecool
04:41.54koyoteif it's got a url, you can just paste it until they go away :)
04:41.58koyotecameron: very cool
04:41.58treke|homewas pretty sure it would, but it's hard to say without testing
04:42.37koyotewhen you put the card in, do you get 'unsupported car inserted' or something similar?
04:43.10Cameronwoohoo
04:43.13Cameronblinking lights!
04:43.25koyotethat's a start, ya you betcha
04:43.40koyotei didn't say that.
04:43.54koyoteI'm from the south. really. like, somewhere not northern midwestish.
04:45.16Cameronok -- so now do I just configure it in Network settings?
04:45.47treke|homeyes
04:46.16Cameronis it supposed to show up under eth0 instead of wlan0?
04:46.19Cameronbecause it does for me
04:47.00koyotethat could depend on the card, too
04:48.05Cameronnetwork settings doesen't let me change the WEP key though
04:48.09Cameronso I have to do this manually?
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04:48.23koyote-ozyeehaw
04:48.27Cameronhehe
04:48.44Cameronkoyote-oz: do you know how to change the WEP key?
04:48.52koyote-ozi need to put sirc on here someday
04:49.13koyote-ozmmmm. not yet
04:49.23koyote-ozitis in the install guide
04:50.08Cameronoh well I did it manually with iwconfig
04:50.09Cameronand...
04:51.20koyote-ozi just have mac locks on mine right now
04:51.51koyote-ozthough i have to re enable wepkeys before my next oncall shift
04:52.19Camerontried to connect on IRC, but got "Socket error: Operation not permitted"
04:52.47koyote-ozcan you ping the world?
04:53.00CameronI just tried to ping google.com, and it froze
04:53.19Cameronand no, the machine won't be pinged either...hmm, odd
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04:53.56CameronI get a correct signal level/link quality thingy
04:54.03Cameronbut no network connectivity...odd...
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04:54.31Cameronooh
04:54.35Cameronmaybe I fixed it...
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04:54.55koyote-ozweird
04:55.05Cameronyours isn't too reliable either, eh? ;)
04:55.14koyote-ozi must have a keyboard issue
04:55.20Cameronyes
04:55.23koyote-oznetwork is fine
04:55.24CameronI can ping to local network
04:55.52tanqcameron do whoami
04:55.53Cameronone thing wrong with this ROM: no CTRL-C (FN-C)
04:56.04tanqsounds like you have permissions problems
04:56.10Cameronroot, tanq
04:56.31tanqcheck the permissions on ping
04:56.45tanqmaybe u need to make it +x
04:57.02Cameronmy problem has changed actually
04:57.08tanqheh
04:57.09Cameronnow I can ping local ip's
04:57.14Cameronbut not resolv anything
04:57.52tanqcan you ping the gateway
04:58.06Cameronyes that's what I pinged
04:58.09CameronI need to rewrite the resolv.conf
04:58.21Cameronobviously the network settings util does NOTHING
04:58.26Cameronon this machine with this card @ least
04:58.28Cameronstrange
04:58.41koyote-ozmy dhcp works fine
04:58.46tanqwhat card are you using
04:58.50tanqand what rom
04:59.06W8TVICameron: what card?
04:59.10CameronSocket
04:59.19CameronHusky OZ ROM
04:59.23W8TVIok
04:59.23Cameronon a C700
04:59.24tanqthe expensive socket card
04:59.28tanqheh
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05:00.22Cameron-OZworks now
05:00.31Cameron-OZ:-
05:00.42Cameron:)
05:00.54CameronI don't have DHCP here
05:01.00CameronI set it up manually
05:01.03Cameronbut now it works
05:01.14Camerondon't know how I'll save those settings in the future though..
05:01.23koyote-ozi need to build a travelling bettery pack for this
05:01.29Cameron(ifconfig, route add default gw, /etc/resolv.conf)
05:02.40koyote-ozi could really use a bigger font.
05:03.11Cameronhow do the color bars work?
05:03.16Cameron(for the wireless indicator)
05:03.25Cameronand do they work for the Socket anyone know?
05:05.27Cameroneek
05:05.36CameronI froze my Zaurus!
05:05.36Camerondarn it
05:05.52koyoteI haven't had a problem yet with it
05:05.54Cameronthanks a lot, Konqueror :(
05:05.56ChipX86|Codingbeen there, done that, on a daily basis
05:05.58koyoteah
05:06.07CameronChipX86|Coding: I just have to reset it manually?
05:06.11koyoteyeah, I'm avoiding Konq right now.
05:06.23koyotei thihk I'll make links-ssl work somehow
05:06.29Cameronwhy you avoiding konq?
05:06.34ChipX86|CodingCameron: nod, that's what I do
05:06.36Cameronnotoriously unstable ATM?
05:06.48koyoteI've got a bad history with it going back to kde 1 :)
05:07.12Cameronhehe
05:07.20CameronI've liked it in KDE3 :)
05:07.25Cameronand kde2 for that matter hehe
05:07.32koyotehavne't used kde3, actually
05:07.47koyotebeen on solaris servers and mac workstations for a while
05:08.15Cameronany editors included in this initrd besides vi?
05:08.31koyotekate
05:08.40koyotein applications
05:08.48koyoteand somethign called editor in pim
05:08.55Cameronk thx
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05:29.22nerdboy_getting some exercise raster?
05:29.57rasternerdboy_:  eh?
05:30.03rasternerdboy_:  in & out you mean?
05:30.11nerdboy_yeah :)
05:31.21nerdboy_maybe my jokes are running out for the day...
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06:05.20koyoteodd
06:05.28koyotenot entirely stable, that irc client, I think
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13:14.43MG_Takwrong window
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16:13.55mulehas anyone here ever built a rootfs with the buildroot?
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18:45.11tanqhey guys
18:45.18MG_Takhi tanq
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18:49.56MG_Takthen it someone fixed itself
18:50.20MG_Takand then I reset my Zaurus and the problem's back.
19:03.46*** join/#zaurus kcr (bc2d68a360@EXORDIUM.MIT.EDU)
19:04.18kcrdoes anyone have any pointers on what toolchain to use for building a kernel for the 760?
19:04.40treke|ho1e2.95.3
19:05.06treke|ho1ehttp://openzaurus.org/official/toolchain/old/cross-2.95.3.tar.bz2
19:05.54kcrthanks.
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19:11.07treke|ho1ehey ChipX86
19:11.10treke|ho1edid thos ipks work?
19:11.21ChipX86haven't had a chance to test yet
19:11.26treke|ho1ecool deal
19:11.27ChipX86trying to get the rest of MSNP9 done
19:14.48muleanyone got any idea what -lfl is ?
19:14.53imksup ChipX86 ?
19:15.05MG_Takmule: library..? :)
19:15.06ChipX86not much. How goes it?
19:15.19imkits good :D
19:15.25muleyes any idea what library? I need it to make open1x
19:17.59muledoes it not seem sensible to mount the persistent ram of 5600 to /usr, not /home ?
19:18.35MG_Takonly if home is /usr/home
19:18.38treke|ho1eu/me doesnt think so
19:19.00MG_Tak<PROTECTED>
19:19.04muleMG_Tak: yes and /root I think
19:19.28treke|ho1emule: Everything on the 5600 is in flash so it's a moot point
19:19.36MG_Takmule: /root is actually /home/root, I think
19:19.39MG_Taktreke|ho1e: yeah :)
19:20.14muletreke|ho1e: its not moot :P
19:21.38treke|ho1eIt's already in flash, why move it to a partition that will only make more work?
19:22.01treke|ho1einstead of using the current system with the obvious benefit of keeping user data safe in the event of a reflash
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19:22.27ErikNanyone have a zaurus lock up when the network card is in for a day?
19:23.00muletreke|ho1e: except /home doesnt need 32mb
19:23.06MG_TakErikN: not me
19:23.11MG_TakI have the socket one
19:23.21ChipX86my Zaurus locks up on a daily basis anyway.. the USB connection keeps resetting on the computer somehow, and eventually the Z hangs
19:23.34treke|ho1emule: And /usr does?
19:23.55treke|ho1emule: /usr is already on a 32MB partition.
19:25.47muletreke / is on 32mb
19:26.16muleno?
19:26.20treke|ho1eCorrect
19:26.21muleI get confused
19:26.27treke|ho1eand /usr is part of /
19:26.37muleyes
19:26.56mule<PROTECTED>
19:26.58treke|ho1eyou end up losing maybe 5 megs to the base system
19:27.18treke|ho1emaybe if you dont actually use the device for anything
19:27.28kcrwoo, that worked finally
19:27.42muleno, I mean I could put home on SD...I want apps in ram
19:28.17treke|ho1ewhy does it matter if they are on the first partition or the second? you can install to either with no problem
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19:28.38muletreke|ho1e: how?
19:28.53treke|ho1emule: Use ipkg and ipkg-link
19:28.59muletreke|ho1e: I thought the package manager didnt do the necessary symlinks
19:29.04muleaaah
19:29.10treke|ho1eYou thought wrong.
19:29.24muleactually, I asked and someone said
19:29.32mulebut still I thought wrong
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20:30.06hyro.
20:30.13yeiazel.
20:30.15ChipX86.
20:30.24ChipX86hyro: what's up?
20:30.49hyronothing...
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22:41.39mulescrew it, I'm going to cross compile python
22:42.25MG_Takmule: :)
22:42.33MG_Takcan you compile that ipsec module for me? ;)
22:43.07muleif you tell me what the package name is
22:43.18muleis it in the buildroot?
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22:44.05MG_TakI don't think it is
22:44.36MG_TakI got it from http://www.freeswan.ca/code/freeswan-2.02.tar.gz
22:45.03MG_Takthen followed http://www.liebchen-online.de/vpn-zaurus_en.html, more or less
22:45.19MG_Takbut when I compile the kernel, it complains about missing nf_hooks
22:45.29MG_Takwhich is the neftilter module, from what I've been able to gather
22:45.54mulecan you get the netfilter library?
22:47.06MG_Takhttp://www.killefiz.de/zaurus/showdetail.php?app=1296 <-- this?
22:47.58MG_Takbut after compiling the module, I can't get the freeswan programs to compile
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22:50.32mulersync?
22:50.59mulesorry wrong app
22:51.12muleiptables?
22:51.32MG_TakIt's the only I see there refering to netfilter
22:52.02muleI have that compiled
22:52.35MG_Takiptables or netfilter?
22:52.37mule1.2.7a3I have it running
22:53.29mulewhat do you need?
22:54.18MG_Takmule: if I knew, I'd probably not be asking. :) I'm gonna try and compile the netfilter module from kernel source
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22:55.19MG_Takfor kernels and such, it's taking me a while to get used to linux
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