| 00:01.53 | *** join/#zaurus rev (~rev@24-197-180-73.dul.mn.charter.com) |
| 00:12.16 | *** join/#zaurus paq_ (~paq@202.155.9.188) |
| 00:13.47 | *** join/#zaurus TimRiker (~timr@c-67-163-110-59.client.comcast.net) |
| 00:14.14 | *** mode/#zaurus [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 00:26.25 | VampireZIM | hey pen |
| 00:26.32 | Pendalar | yer quick |
| 00:26.34 | Pendalar | sup? |
| 00:26.42 | VampireZIM | hehe, i just went to this window |
| 00:26.45 | VampireZIM | funny |
| 00:26.51 | VampireZIM | esp i guess |
| 00:27.09 | VampireZIM | i bought tkcVideo last night as well as Addressbook, tkcVideo is awesome |
| 00:27.21 | VampireZIM | plays my DVD rip 640X480 res |
| 00:27.36 | flipLR | smoothly? and wih what codec? |
| 00:27.36 | VampireZIM | a little choppy on my C700, but runs smooth on C760 |
| 00:27.48 | flipLR | ah |
| 00:27.53 | VampireZIM | DIVX 900k 56k Stereo |
| 00:28.03 | Pendalar | you have a c760 now too? |
| 00:28.11 | Pendalar | what bank did you rob =-p |
| 00:28.14 | flipLR | sounds about right, since its not doing any software scaling |
| 00:28.15 | VampireZIM | no, someone on here tested it on his 760 |
| 00:28.21 | Pendalar | ah |
| 00:28.22 | VampireZIM | now i need to upgrade! |
| 00:28.32 | Pendalar | yeah the 760 is much faster |
| 00:28.40 | flipLR | opie-mediaplayer does video fine as long as it doesn't have todo software scaling |
| 00:28.46 | VampireZIM | i didnt know or i would have probably gotten it first |
| 00:29.08 | VampireZIM | flipLR: what machine do you have? |
| 00:29.37 | Pendalar | a friend of mine got bored and is trying to code an OS... I'm trying to push him toward a PDA OS rather than a desktop |
| 00:29.42 | flipLR | a 5500 |
| 00:29.46 | Pendalar | maybe I can push him to help OZ |
| 00:29.51 | VampireZIM | i read a review and email from tkc and they say it drops to 320X240, but it doesnt on my machine |
| 00:30.04 | flipLR | Pendalar: tell him to pickup a deserted app |
| 00:30.07 | VampireZIM | yea, that would be cool |
| 00:30.14 | VampireZIM | make a WINDOWED OS for C7xx |
| 00:30.14 | flipLR | i've been working on opiemedia player |
| 00:30.18 | flipLR | er |
| 00:30.21 | flipLR | opie-irc |
| 00:30.45 | flipLR | its just missing a bunch of little stuff |
| 00:30.54 | Pendalar | he's wanting OS level.. |
| 00:31.08 | Pendalar | opie-irc is missing a good bit as far as protocol completion |
| 00:31.13 | flipLR | heh, tell him to write an sd module :-) |
| 00:31.24 | flipLR | Pendalar: nod, but its all easy stuff to put in, just takes time |
| 00:32.38 | Pendalar | if it was that easy, I'd imagine the dev would have finished it |
| 00:32.50 | Pendalar | unless there was just an abrubt life change or something |
| 00:33.05 | flipLR | thats what i'm guessing, development seemed to just stop |
| 00:34.23 | Pendalar | crap bbiaf |
| 00:34.28 | flipLR | that, or people just lose interst |
| 00:34.32 | Pendalar | got to take my son down in a storm to visit a relative |
| 00:45.22 | flipLR | anyone know what the tcp signature changing patch for the linux kernel is? |
| 00:46.04 | *** join/#zaurus rev (~rev@24-197-180-73.dul.mn.charter.com) |
| 00:48.26 | VampireZIM | anyone seen a 1Gb SD card on the market? |
| 00:48.50 | flipLR | yeah, there's a few of em |
| 00:49.05 | VampireZIM | who sells them and how much do they cost? |
| 00:49.18 | flipLR | http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10318746&loc=101 |
| 00:49.25 | flipLR | Sandisk, that one is $219 |
| 00:49.38 | VampireZIM | no, SD |
| 00:49.41 | VampireZIM | not CF |
| 00:49.50 | flipLR | doh |
| 00:49.57 | flipLR | sorry, wasn't paying attention |
| 00:50.01 | VampireZIM | :) |
| 00:50.20 | flipLR | no, i haven't seen any 1gig SD cards |
| 00:50.37 | flipLR | i have a 256meg in my 5500 |
| 00:50.49 | VampireZIM | some guy said they were selling them in a store in California for $299 after rebate |
| 00:51.06 | flipLR | but sandisk does have one |
| 00:51.11 | flipLR | i dunno if its on the market yet |
| 00:51.14 | VampireZIM | yea, so does Panasonic |
| 00:52.05 | VampireZIM | 1Gb would be nice |
| 00:52.17 | flipLR | The 512MB SD card is expected to be available in the second quarter, while the 1GB SD card is expected to be available in the third quarter. |
| 00:52.35 | VampireZIM | yea, everyone sells the 512Mb for about $299 now |
| 00:52.57 | VampireZIM | http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10335391&hdwt=0&loc=101 |
| 00:53.03 | flipLR | nod, thats what i bought the 256 |
| 00:53.16 | VampireZIM | if someone would just write drivers for that SD BlueTooth, then i could get a 1GB CF |
| 00:53.27 | flipLR | hrm, can't seem to get anti-aliased fonts working in mozilla on my laptop |
| 00:53.59 | flipLR | VampireZIM: doesn't really matter, the Zaurus doesn't support SDIO anyway |
| 00:54.10 | flipLR | at least the 5500 doesn't i dunno about others |
| 00:54.11 | VampireZIM | oh yea |
| 00:54.22 | VampireZIM | are you sure C7xx doesnt have SDIO? |
| 00:54.41 | flipLR | i'm pretty sure the 700 doesn't i dunno about the others |
| 00:54.49 | VampireZIM | hmm |
| 00:55.04 | VampireZIM | oh well, guess i will just 256MB |
| 00:55.29 | VampireZIM | i wish they would release the American C760 already |
| 00:55.50 | flipLR | shrug, i can't afford one anyway :-) |
| 00:56.08 | flipLR | the whole reason i bought a 5500 is because i got the $169 HSN deal |
| 00:56.20 | VampireZIM | yea, great deals on 5500 |
| 00:56.39 | VampireZIM | i might buy one just to keep papers from flying off my desk when i turn on the AC |
| 00:56.40 | VampireZIM | :) |
| 00:56.48 | flipLR | heh |
| 00:57.19 | VampireZIM | http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10313584&hdwt=30701&loc=101 |
| 00:57.23 | VampireZIM | thats my next purchase |
| 00:57.28 | VampireZIM | then Siemens S55 |
| 00:59.15 | flipLR | i'm buying a new phone next month |
| 00:59.20 | flipLR | just haven't decided which one |
| 00:59.28 | VampireZIM | what are you looking for? |
| 00:59.52 | flipLR | color, java, maybe bluetooth |
| 01:00.18 | flipLR | a decent sized screen would be nice, but not essential, and i'd like something that works on sprint's network |
| 01:00.32 | VampireZIM | S55 is cool, small, color, pictuer ID, camera clip on, IR, bluetooth, SpeakerPhone, wav ring tones, voice dialing and other stuff i cant remember |
| 01:00.43 | VampireZIM | its GPRS |
| 01:00.57 | flipLR | where do you live? |
| 01:00.59 | VampireZIM | i am selling my PocketPC Phone tomorrow |
| 01:01.02 | VampireZIM | Utah |
| 01:01.08 | flipLR | what provider? |
| 01:01.12 | VampireZIM | T-Mobile |
| 01:01.52 | flipLR | hmm, i wonder if that phone will work with sprint |
| 01:01.54 | VampireZIM | they offer unlimited DATA for $19.95/mo |
| 01:02.01 | flipLR | i like the unlimited data included thing |
| 01:02.02 | VampireZIM | 'it wont, Sprint is CDMA |
| 01:02.09 | flipLR | plus i get a discount thru work |
| 01:02.17 | VampireZIM | cool |
| 01:02.20 | flipLR | sprint doesn't have a GPS network yet? |
| 01:02.25 | VampireZIM | Sprint has NO Bluetooth phone yet |
| 01:02.35 | VampireZIM | T608 might be released, but its uncertain, it has BT |
| 01:02.38 | flipLR | uhg |
| 01:02.45 | flipLR | that kinfa sucks |
| 01:02.48 | VampireZIM | yea |
| 01:02.49 | flipLR | kinda |
| 01:02.58 | VampireZIM | my friend has Sprint, he is bitching about it all the time |
| 01:03.09 | VampireZIM | there are tons of Bluetooth phones for GPRS |
| 01:03.26 | flipLR | yeah, i wanna pay $50 or less a month' |
| 01:03.37 | flipLR | if you don't mind me asking, whats your plan? |
| 01:03.49 | VampireZIM | another option for data would be a GPRS CF Card, but i dont know if i could get it to work on Z withouth drivers |
| 01:04.06 | VampireZIM | 3000mins anytime $50/mo |
| 01:04.27 | VampireZIM | i will be adding unlimited data when i get my new phone |
| 01:04.49 | flipLR | hmmm, thats without data tho, my plan would have to be $30 + data, gotta have data |
| 01:05.01 | VampireZIM | yea |
| 01:05.07 | VampireZIM | i dont know Sprints data plans |
| 01:05.20 | VampireZIM | my friend says he pays like $99/mo for unlimited |
| 01:05.23 | flipLR | sprint data is included |
| 01:05.25 | flipLR | unlimited |
| 01:05.35 | VampireZIM | but CMDA x1 is faster than GPRS |
| 01:05.44 | VampireZIM | wow, that must be a new thing, thats cool |
| 01:05.52 | flipLR | nah, its been like that awhil |
| 01:05.56 | VampireZIM | CDPD X1 is fast, like 150k |
| 01:06.08 | flipLR | i have a bunch of friends that use it, you see people come in here every so often on it |
| 01:06.12 | VampireZIM | GPRS is 56k |
| 01:06.30 | VampireZIM | stupid that they dont have BT though |
| 01:06.47 | VampireZIM | maybe they are discouraging DATA usage |
| 01:07.08 | flipLR | maybe |
| 01:07.24 | flipLR | they probably want to make money off "data kits" |
| 01:07.31 | VampireZIM | yea |
| 01:08.02 | flipLR | i can probably get a discount thru work on tmobile too |
| 01:08.05 | VampireZIM | mmm, watching ET, they just got Pizza, looks yummy |
| 01:08.06 | flipLR | i just haven't checked |
| 01:08.28 | *** join/#zaurus raster (~raster@203.206.217.82) |
| 01:08.34 | VampireZIM | damn, i might have to order pizza now |
| 01:08.55 | VampireZIM | i wish i could get my Z to connect to my daughters Sony Ericsson T300 via IR |
| 01:09.02 | VampireZIM | it wont sync up, its pissing me off |
| 01:09.25 | VampireZIM | if i could make that work, i could wait on the S55 purchase |
| 01:10.08 | VampireZIM | i am really anxious to get my C700 on the net |
| 01:10.48 | flipLR | yeah, i use wifi around my place and campus |
| 01:11.01 | VampireZIM | yea, i dont have wifi either |
| 01:11.09 | VampireZIM | or i could go to the coffee shop and get on |
| 01:29.30 | Pend-Gone | meow |
| 01:31.15 | *** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-44c14684.dyn.optonline.net) |
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| 02:09.59 | *** join/#zaurus fishhead- (~hitme@12-227-27-36.client.attbi.com) |
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| 02:38.09 | fishhead- | CANUCK! |
| 02:39.09 | fishhead- | "{ |
| 02:39.10 | fishhead- | :P |
| 03:00.21 | *** join/#zaurus m_0f (m0f73@vsat-148-63-111-199.c002.t7.mrt.starband.net) |
| 03:27.56 | *** join/#zaurus tunemx (~kemo@Toronto-HSE-ppp3672930.sympatico.ca) |
| 03:28.08 | tunemx | good evening |
| 03:30.40 | fishhead- | CANUCK! |
| 03:30.43 | tunemx | haha |
| 03:30.53 | tunemx | canuck needs help |
| 03:30.54 | fishhead- | :P |
| 03:31.03 | fishhead- | that's for your countries many acts of terrorism |
| 03:31.08 | fishhead- | like celin dion's titanic soundtrack! |
| 03:31.17 | tunemx | and mike myers? |
| 03:31.27 | fishhead- | and a ton of bad sci fi movies and series like lexx |
| 03:31.39 | *** join/#zaurus Bala (~Bala@hsdbsk142-165-117-18.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 03:31.58 | fishhead- | another one |
| 03:32.01 | tunemx | i installed pingizauri's vnc package |
| 03:32.02 | fishhead- | CANUCK! |
| 03:32.09 | rev | mmm |
| 03:32.10 | rev | cannuck |
| 03:32.11 | tunemx | and the Z is broke since then |
| 03:32.16 | fishhead- | sorry guys I don't have a sharp pda |
| 03:32.17 | rev | mmm |
| 03:32.19 | rev | fresh canadian flesh |
| 03:32.22 | tunemx | i am not cnuck btw |
| 03:32.24 | rev | it's ok fishie |
| 03:32.25 | rev | it's |
| 03:32.26 | rev | o |
| 03:32.26 | rev | k |
| 03:32.27 | tunemx | i am hungarian |
| 03:32.28 | fishhead- | but my palm died so I am weighing my options |
| 03:32.31 | rev | well |
| 03:32.36 | tunemx | living here temp |
| 03:32.37 | rev | what do you want out of a PDA? |
| 03:32.39 | rev | what palm did you have? |
| 03:32.40 | fishhead- | staples is giving me a $250 check |
| 03:32.47 | fishhead- | because their extended warrenty service fouled up |
| 03:32.52 | rev | wowza |
| 03:32.54 | rev | man |
| 03:32.57 | rev | what model? |
| 03:33.01 | fishhead- | IIIxe |
| 03:33.01 | rev | and what did they do to it? |
| 03:33.02 | fishhead- | mb died |
| 03:33.08 | rev | wow |
| 03:33.08 | tunemx | when i start OpenZaurus I only get the shell |
| 03:33.13 | rev | $250 for such an oldie |
| 03:33.13 | fishhead- | they told me it was out of warrenty and I took it apart |
| 03:33.17 | tunemx | what can I do? |
| 03:33.22 | fishhead- | it was $300 back then with a rebate |
| 03:33.32 | rev | fishhead-: then why would they pay you for taking it apart? :P |
| 03:33.43 | fishhead- | no dude they fouled up |
| 03:33.48 | fishhead- | they lost the records too |
| 03:33.51 | rev | heh |
| 03:34.16 | fishhead- | even though I am 29 my mom handled the 2nd call and apprentely convinced them :p |
| 03:34.40 | *** part/#zaurus TimRiker (~timr@c-67-163-110-59.client.comcast.net) |
| 03:34.46 | rev | haha |
| 03:34.50 | rev | mamma's boy |
| 03:35.16 | fishhead- | na dude actually I still live here |
| 03:35.21 | fishhead- | i was born brain damaged :/ |
| 03:35.30 | warmi | 29 years old mamma's boy |
| 03:35.32 | warmi | ;-) |
| 03:35.57 | rev | hahahaha |
| 03:36.03 | rev | aww |
| 03:36.08 | rev | is your brain undamaged now? |
| 03:36.09 | fishhead- | yeah well I doubt I will see 30 |
| 03:36.16 | fishhead- | yeah it's getting better |
| 03:36.27 | fishhead- | the bad news is my body is shutting down from all the yrs of med trials |
| 03:36.30 | rev | and if not, what is it? |
| 03:36.33 | rev | wait a second |
| 03:36.38 | rev | i think he's yanking our chain |
| 03:36.59 | fishhead- | I wish |
| 03:37.02 | fishhead- | ADHD |
| 03:37.05 | fishhead- | ANXIENTY ATTACKS |
| 03:37.06 | fishhead- | DEPRESSION |
| 03:37.13 | fishhead- | OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE DISORDER |
| 03:37.30 | tunemx | and you type it with your nose? |
| 03:37.41 | tunemx | or your mom is typing? |
| 03:37.51 | fishhead- | at least I ain't a filthy canuck like you |
| 03:38.05 | tunemx | then you are a filthy what |
| 03:39.19 | fishhead- | so are there are zarus's around $250-$300 |
| 03:39.25 | rev | cheaper |
| 03:39.28 | fishhead- | I am probably going to end up getting a palm tungston T |
| 03:39.34 | rev | i bought a SL-5500 for $180 |
| 03:39.37 | rev | the TT is a good buy |
| 03:39.44 | rev | or a zire 71 |
| 03:39.50 | fishhead- | na the 71 is canucked |
| 03:39.52 | fishhead- | no flash rom |
| 03:39.53 | rev | if you dig the POS, they're both very nice |
| 03:39.55 | rev | ahhh |
| 03:40.03 | rev | is that a big deal on POS devices? |
| 03:40.08 | fishhead- | POS ? |
| 03:40.09 | rev | that is, do they release major upgrades via flash rom updates? |
| 03:40.14 | rev | POS is PalmOS |
| 03:40.18 | fishhead- | yeah |
| 03:40.24 | fishhead- | see palm 5 isn't native arm |
| 03:40.26 | rev | or i guess one could say PalmOS is a POS, heh |
| 03:40.27 | rev | ah |
| 03:40.31 | fishhead- | it's still m68k with some arm optimizations etc |
| 03:40.34 | rev | yeah |
| 03:40.37 | fishhead- | 6 will be native arm |
| 03:40.39 | rev | from what i read, POS 6 won't be either |
| 03:40.41 | fishhead- | so if I get a TT |
| 03:40.45 | fishhead- | then I can upgrade |
| 03:40.49 | rev | yeah |
| 03:41.01 | rev | a flash ROM is a must for a Linux PDA |
| 03:41.08 | *** join/#zaurus flipLR (~flip@ip68-2-119-193.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 03:41.17 | fishhead- | bare min requirement for me for any new palm |
| 03:41.22 | rev | because if yo uwant to change something little, like the way RAM is split between storage and program RAM, you have to hack your kernel, recompile, rebuild the ROM and reflash |
| 03:41.22 | fishhead- | is flash card support |
| 03:41.27 | rev | yeah |
| 03:41.28 | rev | obviously |
| 03:41.35 | fishhead- | no I mean cards |
| 03:41.38 | rev | yeah |
| 03:41.39 | fishhead- | like to store docs sound etc |
| 03:41.39 | rev | again |
| 03:41.40 | rev | like i said |
| 03:41.42 | rev | obviously |
| 03:41.43 | rev | :) |
| 03:42.05 | fishhead- | I woudl also like color and sound but the flash card support is the one thing I won't budge on |
| 03:42.24 | rev | yeah |
| 03:42.35 | rev | especially when POS units can only top out at 128 MB of RAM |
| 03:42.40 | rev | as far as internal storage |
| 03:42.46 | rev | thank the lawd for POS 5.2.1 |
| 03:42.55 | rev | because the limit is 16 MB bnefore that! :P |
| 03:42.59 | rev | which is totally nuts |
| 03:43.13 | rev | but at the same time, POS apps really are a ton smaller than Zaurus or PocketPC apps |
| 03:43.16 | fishhead- | yeah that was CANUCKED |
| 03:43.21 | fishhead- | well you know why don't you |
| 03:43.27 | fishhead- | 16 meg is a limit of dragonball m68k |
| 03:43.37 | rev | yup |
| 03:43.42 | rev | but the TT is still limited to 16 MB |
| 03:43.49 | rev | but only because it runs POS 5 and not 5.2.1 |
| 03:43.58 | rev | but that doesn't matter, it's not like you were gunna solder more in :) |
| 03:44.13 | fishhead- | 16 meg is not really a problem |
| 03:44.22 | fishhead- | when you can exec some apps right out of flash |
| 03:44.29 | fishhead- | or even if only for data |
| 03:44.56 | rev | yup |
| 03:45.12 | rev | but at the same time, non-app data is the same no matter where you are, pocketpc, wince, linux or POS |
| 03:45.17 | fishhead- | right nwo I have frakenPALM |
| 03:45.18 | rev | more or less that is |
| 03:45.26 | fishhead- | I broke my mom's IIIx |
| 03:45.29 | rev | some platforms would store it different, but sizes are about the same |
| 03:45.32 | rev | that blows |
| 03:45.34 | fishhead- | actually my belt clip snapped and it dropped |
| 03:45.38 | rev | you have frakenPALM? |
| 03:45.38 | *** join/#zaurus flipppy (~flip@ip68-2-119-193.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 03:45.43 | rev | haha |
| 03:45.44 | rev | WHOOPS |
| 03:45.47 | fishhead- | you know like frankestein |
| 03:45.57 | fishhead- | it's my mom's motherboard with my case and screen and digitizefr |
| 03:45.58 | rev | so frankenPalm |
| 03:46.01 | rev | is it modified? |
| 03:46.04 | rev | heh |
| 03:46.05 | *** part/#zaurus m_0f (m0f73@vsat-148-63-111-199.c002.t7.mrt.starband.net) |
| 03:46.05 | rev | ok |
| 03:46.23 | fishhead- | I managed to cram a lot of data files into 4 meg |
| 03:46.32 | fishhead- | plucker is pretty rought but it does work |
| 03:46.41 | rev | it's funny |
| 03:46.48 | rev | i just got a new Zaurus SL-C760 |
| 03:46.56 | rev | with 128 MB flash RAM and 64 MB of regular RAM |
| 03:47.06 | rev | and the 128 MB is almost full, and i don't really have anything on it :/ |
| 03:47.09 | tunemx | nobody can help? |
| 03:47.14 | fishhead- | Zaurus SL-C760 |
| 03:47.16 | rev | tunemx: what is the problem? |
| 03:47.17 | tunemx | ok i am a canuck but anyway |
| 03:47.27 | rev | only a few new apps, maybe 4 |
| 03:47.30 | tunemx | i installed pingizauri's vnc |
| 03:47.33 | rev | i don't know where the space went |
| 03:47.40 | tunemx | and them rebooted it |
| 03:47.58 | tunemx | but vnc was still not wokring |
| 03:48.02 | rev | never used it man |
| 03:48.03 | tunemx | so rebooted it again |
| 03:48.16 | tunemx | you may still know how to fix my problem |
| 03:48.25 | tunemx | so when i rebooted twice it hang totally |
| 03:48.40 | tunemx | even the battery switch was not resetting the device |
| 03:48.47 | tunemx | so i removed the battery |
| 03:48.50 | tunemx | that helped |
| 03:48.51 | rev | ahhhh |
| 03:48.56 | rev | do you havea 5500? |
| 03:48.59 | tunemx | i booted again |
| 03:49.01 | tunemx | yeah |
| 03:49.03 | rev | that is the double-reboot problem |
| 03:49.05 | tunemx | with OZ 3.2 |
| 03:49.06 | rev | are you aware of it? |
| 03:49.11 | rev | er' |
| 03:49.17 | tunemx | now it is booting |
| 03:49.23 | tunemx | but i get only shell |
| 03:49.30 | tunemx | opie won't come up |
| 03:49.33 | fishhead- | hey rev |
| 03:49.35 | rev | re install |
| 03:49.36 | fishhead- | that 5000 |
| 03:49.40 | rev | yeah? |
| 03:49.41 | fishhead- | does it have sound ? |
| 03:50.08 | tunemx | [/root]$ /etc/init.d/opie start |
| 03:50.09 | tunemx | You seem to already have a /root/Applications directory. |
| 03:50.09 | tunemx | Assuming it is the Opie Applications directory. Exiting. |
| 03:50.09 | tunemx | Starting Opie.... |
| 03:50.09 | tunemx | [/root]$ |
| 03:50.25 | rev | fishhead-: does the C760? yup |
| 03:50.32 | fishhead- | no the 5500 |
| 03:50.35 | rev | er |
| 03:50.35 | rev | haha |
| 03:50.36 | rev | well |
| 03:50.41 | rev | it has stereo headphones out |
| 03:50.42 | rev | and mic in |
| 03:50.44 | tunemx | it says starting and then goes back to the shell |
| 03:50.45 | rev | (in the same jack) |
| 03:50.47 | rev | buuut |
| 03:50.56 | rev | it has just a PC-speaker-like beeper for non-headphone sound |
| 03:50.59 | rev | it has no real internal speaker |
| 03:51.06 | rev | tunemx: :/ |
| 03:51.08 | fishhead- | no it does have a headphone |
| 03:51.09 | rev | i've never used OZ myself |
| 03:51.19 | rev | fishhead-: uh, yes it does |
| 03:51.29 | rev | unless you're talking about something other than the Zaurus SL-5x00 |
| 03:53.04 | fishhead- | hmm |
| 03:53.08 | fishhead- | I wonder if staples sells them |
| 03:53.23 | rev | i think they may |
| 03:53.30 | rev | but not for $180 like i mentioned |
| 03:53.49 | rev | i got mine (long since resold because it was a horrible PDA) through a deal at HSN.com |
| 03:56.39 | tunemx | staples and zaurus? |
| 03:56.42 | tunemx | forget it |
| 03:57.08 | fishhead- | :/ |
| 03:57.25 | rev | are they just out west? |
| 03:57.30 | fishhead- | I am in pa |
| 03:57.34 | fishhead- | I dunno |
| 03:58.05 | treke|wherever | staples used to sell 5500. Never seen 5600s |
| 03:58.27 | fishhead- | i'd like to give them the business |
| 03:58.31 | rev | who buys 5600s anyway? :P |
| 03:58.40 | fishhead- | since they are refunding a 3 yr old palm |
| 03:58.43 | rev | heh |
| 03:58.52 | rev | what makes you want to go linux? |
| 03:58.55 | rev | just out of curiousity |
| 03:59.15 | fishhead- | me I don't |
| 03:59.17 | rev | i wish the PalmOS emulators ran at a higher res than 160x260 |
| 03:59.22 | fishhead- | I just don't want winCE |
| 03:59.30 | rev | heh |
| 03:59.33 | rev | why not palm again? |
| 03:59.40 | warmi | fishhead- what ? you don't like CE ???? |
| 03:59.41 | fishhead- | I probably will |
| 03:59.48 | fishhead- | but I am weighting my options |
| 03:59.57 | rev | it's hard to be pragmatic in these times :) |
| 04:00.22 | fishhead- | espically with my health and mental well being |
| 04:00.23 | rev | as soon as i tell people i'd usually rather use CE over the other options available today, people think i'm some sekret MS zealot spy |
| 04:00.28 | rev | oh newton |
| 04:00.40 | rev | why did you have to die and leae us with such shitty platforms? |
| 04:00.53 | warmi | rev : you are damn MS zealot |
| 04:00.58 | warmi | but that's ok .. so am I |
| 04:01.05 | rev | !@%!%!!! |
| 04:01.05 | rev | heh |
| 04:01.15 | rev | i've nothing else that runs windows except my WinCE PDA |
| 04:01.16 | rev | er |
| 04:01.17 | rev | crap |
| 04:01.22 | rev | not anymore actually |
| 04:01.27 | rev | i've nothing that runs any windows anymore |
| 04:01.36 | rev | since i sold my Axim and Jornada 720 because of the C760 i had coming |
| 04:02.46 | treke|wherever | dont you feel more pure now? |
| 04:03.46 | warmi | let's see .. I 2 linux installations and 5 windows + 2 ce |
| 04:04.00 | rev | well |
| 04:04.01 | warmi | and I feel pretty pure |
| 04:04.30 | rev | i'll feel a lot more pure when i purge QPE/Linux bullshit and just have Squeak running on the Linux kernel |
| 04:04.39 | fishhead- | wtf |
| 04:04.42 | rev | but i'd feel totally pure when it was just Squeak/Dynapad on the bare hardware, no kernel even |
| 04:04.45 | fishhead- | staples wants $500 |
| 04:04.58 | warmi | rev and you and your lisp perversions ;-) |
| 04:05.08 | rev | fishhead-: for the 5500 or the 5600? prolly still the MSRP |
| 04:05.12 | rev | but the first step would be to have Dynapad as an OZ distro |
| 04:05.16 | rev | warmi: nah, Smalltalk |
| 04:05.23 | rev | although |
| 04:05.24 | warmi | ah right .. never mind :-) |
| 04:05.29 | rev | if smalltalk had a parent, lisp is pretty close |
| 04:05.30 | warmi | I can't even get that right today |
| 04:05.31 | rev | i mean |
| 04:05.32 | *** join/#zaurus cyn (~cyn@adsl-18-216-122.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 04:05.51 | warmi | I actually read some of your posts on /. |
| 04:05.52 | rev | it's nto a direct parent, but smalltalk is a child of lisp's ideas much more than it is of BCPL or Algol |
| 04:05.59 | rev | i hope i don't sound to insane |
| 04:06.04 | rev | i try to keep practical |
| 04:06.05 | warmi | I think that was part of yopy review thread or something like that |
| 04:06.14 | rev | because i doin't expect everyone to love smalltalk, i say to each her own |
| 04:06.15 | rev | yeah? |
| 04:06.18 | rev | heh |
| 04:06.25 | rev | i get easily set off about PDA stuff |
| 04:06.29 | warmi | actually it was pretty interesting .. I don't agree with some of your observations but it was interesting to read |
| 04:06.38 | rev | do you know what post iot was about? |
| 04:07.02 | warmi | you had couple ... you are the guy that signs his every post with link to Dynapad right ? |
| 04:07.10 | fishhead- | $449 |
| 04:07.13 | fishhead- | SL-5500 |
| 04:07.23 | rev | i hate when people seem to think that linux pdas are the only PDAs where you can run VNC and Apache :) |
| 04:07.25 | rev | warmi: yeah, it's my .sig |
| 04:07.27 | warmi | fishhead- : thats frigging insane |
| 04:08.11 | rev | big time |
| 04:08.19 | rev | did they give you in store credit or real money? |
| 04:08.53 | warmi | actually I really liked your post defending CE :-) |
| 04:09.07 | warmi | I wasn't lying when I said I was MS zealot |
| 04:09.58 | rev | ah |
| 04:10.02 | rev | see, i wasn't lying when i said i wasn't |
| 04:10.03 | warmi | I was actually suprised myself to learn that one can run stuff like Apache, SSH, X11 on CE |
| 04:10.10 | rev | oh yeah |
| 04:10.37 | rev | i used that J720 like a regular computer, more or less giving my gf my ibook :) |
| 04:10.51 | rev | but there's no tehcnical reason that you couldn't do all that stuff on CE |
| 04:10.57 | rev | i mean, it's a real OS |
| 04:11.14 | warmi | ah ... stupid me .. I thought you were talking aboit Pocket PC .. yeah the proper Windows CE is more like a real thing |
| 04:11.24 | rev | and with a little compat library most stuff is pretty easily ported |
| 04:11.31 | rev | rainer kuchel's (sp?) celib |
| 04:11.36 | rev | well |
| 04:11.44 | rev | i was talking about WinCE and by extension PocketPC |
| 04:11.55 | warmi | yeah, I have seen that site .. this guy ported just about everything |
| 04:12.03 | warmi | you right .. I forgot about it completely |
| 04:12.14 | rev | i've done almost all of that stuff on a PocketPC (iPAQ 3150) before I did on the vanilla WinCE or Handheld PC 2000 Jornada 720 |
| 04:12.32 | rev | PPC 2k and 2002 is just WinCE 3.0 with a couple extra libraries |
| 04:12.45 | warmi | on the other hand if you want to run this stuff then Linux based laptop is obviously much better choice ... just like Linux ( or Unix) is much better choice to run Apache etc |
| 04:12.54 | warmi | these things were written with Unix in mind |
| 04:12.57 | rev | and some mods to make the window management like it is in PPC instead of how it's done on a desktop win95-ish machine |
| 04:13.14 | rev | not neccesarily |
| 04:13.22 | rev | allow me to explain |
| 04:13.32 | rev | if you wanted to run Apache as a production server on a PDA, i'd say do it on Linux, yeah |
| 04:13.34 | warmi | Windows can be just as efficient ( or even more) but things over there are done differently and consequently streight ports like older Apache port aren't as efficient as Win32 native stuff |
| 04:13.41 | rev | but you'd have to be insane for that! |
| 04:13.49 | rev | most people want php/apache/etc on their PDA for testing |
| 04:13.50 | rev | or playing around |
| 04:13.54 | warmi | yeah |
| 04:14.07 | rev | and for that, CE and Linux both do a good job |
| 04:14.09 | rev | fishhead-: night! |
| 04:14.12 | warmi | well, I mean in general .. stuff written for unix/Linux runs best .. surprise ., on Linux :-) |
| 04:14.17 | warmi | fishhead- night |
| 04:14.18 | rev | naturally |
| 04:14.23 | rev | but the difference isn't that large |
| 04:14.35 | tunemx | sob |
| 04:14.46 | rev | but then again, that software was also written for Linux desktop/servers/etc |
| 04:14.48 | warmi | well, for example forking on Win32 is a hack .. shouldn't be really used .. |
| 04:14.51 | rev | not embedded devices like PDAs |
| 04:14.56 | warmi | Win32 is much more efficient with threading etc |
| 04:15.00 | rev | and i actually found a lot more Unix software that was well adapted to running on a CE PDA than I did for the Z |
| 04:15.15 | rev | it's really easy to do a port of any ol console linux package to the Z |
| 04:15.22 | warmi | yeah , well .. CE been longer around .. not to mention it has a much bigger user base |
| 04:15.26 | rev | but, how useful is that? |
| 04:15.36 | rev | yup |
| 04:15.45 | rev | but for me, that factors into it |
| 04:15.47 | warmi | you planning to get a CE device any time soon ? |
| 04:15.55 | rev | i just sold my 2 CE devices |
| 04:15.56 | rev | but |
| 04:16.02 | rev | i really wanted this puppy: |
| 04:16.13 | rev | http://www.dynamism.com/nexio/index.shtml |
| 04:16.20 | rev | and i would've tried to get it instead of the C760 |
| 04:16.30 | warmi | how much ? |
| 04:16.34 | *** join/#zaurus nerdboy (~sarnold@arnolds.dhs.org) |
| 04:16.43 | rev | but... its CPU is an XScale PXA250 instead of a PXA255 like in the C760 :( |
| 04:16.47 | rev | it's a whopping $1200! |
| 04:16.49 | rev | which is SICK |
| 04:16.52 | warmi | uh .. fuck that |
| 04:16.54 | rev | meaning i never would've got it |
| 04:16.58 | rev | (i got the C760 for free) |
| 04:17.04 | rev | yeah, but that thing is about the perfect pda for me |
| 04:17.05 | warmi | but it has Wi-fi |
| 04:17.09 | rev | as close as i've seen for a while |
| 04:17.14 | warmi | c760 for free ? |
| 04:17.14 | rev | and it has a 800x480 screen |
| 04:17.22 | warmi | you mean for the price of two CEs you sold right ? |
| 04:17.23 | _Psycho | wi-fi AND bluetooth |
| 04:17.28 | rev | and the device itself is a bit larger- i don't like the small things |
| 04:17.31 | rev | i mean |
| 04:17.39 | rev | my PDA pretty much replaces my laptop and desktop |
| 04:17.52 | warmi | uh .. I don't think I know of any PDA that could that for me |
| 04:18.00 | rev | and i really liked the physical size of Newton screen |
| 04:18.11 | rev | although the bulk framing is very large |
| 04:18.14 | warmi | sorry, couple more generations .. then will talk about replacing my laptop :-) |
| 04:18.22 | rev | yeah |
| 04:18.31 | rev | i'm definately an exception, an anamoly |
| 04:18.32 | *** join/#zaurus nerdboy_ (~sarnold@arnolds.dhs.org) |
| 04:18.40 | rev | i've a fetish perhaps |
| 04:18.45 | warmi | the biggest problem is input |
| 04:18.56 | rev | and that's the biggest problemn i've had with linux so far |
| 04:19.06 | rev | because i've not found any good means of input |
| 04:19.12 | warmi | I generally use my laptop for coding and for that nothing ( so far) beats good old full-sized keyboard |
| 04:19.24 | rev | on the Newton or on a WinCE PDA, I can get 45-50 WPM entering text with real handwriting recognition |
| 04:19.37 | rev | not crappy character recog as found on the Z or w/ palm's graffiti |
| 04:19.38 | rev | or |
| 04:19.48 | ljp_laptop | I do all my coding on the zaurus |
| 04:19.49 | warmi | MS recognition is workable but just doesn't come close to having access to a keyboard |
| 04:19.55 | rev | on the J720, i was able to type a good 50-60 WPM |
| 04:20.01 | rev | but then again, it has a real keyboard |
| 04:20.03 | rev | although it's tiny |
| 04:20.06 | warmi | for stuff like notes etc it is great but no way it could replace my main laptop |
| 04:20.10 | rev | er not tiny, but 75% of full screen |
| 04:20.15 | rev | ackl |
| 04:20.16 | rev | heh |
| 04:20.20 | rev | 75% of full size |
| 04:20.30 | rev | http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ebay/ |
| 04:20.36 | rev | some photos i took of mine for the ebay sale |
| 04:20.37 | warmi | rev: you don't core on your PDAs do you ? |
| 04:20.50 | rev | treke|wherever: to me, a thumboard is tiny |
| 04:20.53 | rev | warmi: do you mean code? |
| 04:20.55 | rev | or core dump? |
| 04:20.57 | rev | but if you mean code, yes |
| 04:21.03 | warmi | code ;-) |
| 04:21.05 | rev | that is why i'm so keen on having a faster PXA255 |
| 04:21.06 | warmi | of course |
| 04:21.11 | warmi | really ?? |
| 04:21.13 | rev | i do almost all of my coding on my PDA |
| 04:21.18 | rev | believe it or not |
| 04:21.24 | rev | that's one of the main reason i got into PDAs in the first place |
| 04:21.32 | rev | and why i chose the Newton back then |
| 04:21.41 | rev | i wanted a computer that was veryl ow power, yet performed decent enough |
| 04:21.47 | warmi | man .. coding is painfull enough on 1280x1024 ( my reg res ) , then sometimes I have to do it on the road with 1024x768 but anything below that would be uh .. |
| 04:21.59 | rev | and on which you could write applications without the use of a desktop for any part of the workflow |
| 04:22.07 | rev | meh |
| 04:22.25 | warmi | on the other hand if I think about it .. back in 80s I used to by happy with 320x200 screens offered by things like C-64 or Atari :-) |
| 04:22.31 | rev | i've two 17" monitors at work each running at 1280x1024, at both jobs i've a setup like that |
| 04:22.35 | rev | but i don't code there |
| 04:22.36 | rev | heh |
| 04:22.47 | rev | if not on my pda, i code on my 1024x768 ibook |
| 04:22.52 | rev | i'm used to it |
| 04:23.22 | warmi | that jornada doesn't look too bad |
| 04:23.45 | warmi | http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ebay/j720-noflash-large.jpg |
| 04:23.53 | rev | and i have keyboard shortcuts for switching easily |
| 04:23.53 | rev | i also program in smalltalk |
| 04:23.53 | rev | and the class browser helps |
| 04:23.53 | rev | that is, i'm not just editing one huge .c file |
| 04:23.53 | rev | the browser seperates the methods for me |
| 04:23.53 | rev | and in smalltalk, methods are typically pretty short- the average length is probably 5-10 lines |
| 04:23.58 | warmi | actually the keyboard looks like a real deal :-) |
| 04:24.10 | rev | it's a nice machine |
| 04:24.19 | warmi | rev: how fast is smalltalk .. |
| 04:24.22 | warmi | I know nothing about it |
| 04:24.27 | warmi | is this interpreted stuff ? |
| 04:24.48 | ljp_laptop | *yawn* |
| 04:24.54 | rev | i would've kept it as my main machine if not for one main thing: a faster processor... having a reflective screen was somewhat important to me too. although, the C760 doesn't have that either I have just found out. :( (but it's more readable outdoors) |
| 04:25.06 | rev | as with anything, the speed of the language depends on how you implement your programs |
| 04:25.14 | rev | smalltalk is similar to java in execution speed |
| 04:25.22 | rev | however, doni't associate the speed of Swing with it :P |
| 04:25.26 | rev | smalltalk is compiled |
| 04:25.28 | rev | to bytecode |
| 04:25.34 | rev | and the bytecode is JITed |
| 04:26.09 | rev | a lot of things are a as fast or faster in Smalltalk on my C760 than they are in Qtopia |
| 04:26.17 | rev | launching an app for one |
| 04:26.37 | rev | other things are slowe,r naturally |
| 04:26.40 | rev | give and take |
| 04:26.47 | warmi | well, as you said .. there are well written apps and there are these that weren't written so well |
| 04:26.57 | rev | for me it's worth it, considering the power over my environment i get with smalltalk |
| 04:27.38 | warmi | what kind of GUI you are using |
| 04:27.45 | warmi | framebuffer ? or are you running X ? |
| 04:28.10 | rev | the GUI i use for Dynapad is the default GUI toolkit that Squeak uses- it's called Morphic |
| 04:28.38 | rev | i run Dynapad/Squeak (squeak is www.squeak.org - it's a smalltalk implementation) on top of X11, Qtopia and the framebuffer |
| 04:28.47 | rev | right now, i've mostly been running it on top of Qtopia |
| 04:28.58 | warmi | http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/uploads/morphic_squeak.gif |
| 04:29.06 | rev | because i just got this C760 and i'm playing with both Smalltalk and Qtopia a lot |
| 04:29.20 | rev | that's and older and ugly screenshot |
| 04:29.27 | rev | i'll show you what my desktop looks like, just a sec |
| 04:29.36 | warmi | yeah , looks kind of like old style X desktop |
| 04:29.42 | rev | but you see that "halo" of buttons around that mouse image? |
| 04:30.19 | rev | one of the cool things about Morphic is that you can directly manipulate/interact with GUI objects |
| 04:30.44 | rev | for example |
| 04:31.01 | rev | let's say i have the menu in some app i'm using |
| 04:31.13 | rev | and i want to do something from this menu a lot |
| 04:32.21 | rev | i can just rip out the single menu item and place ito n my desktop |
| 04:32.21 | rev | and click it |
| 04:32.21 | rev | rather than go through the menu |
| 04:32.21 | rev | i could also just make the menu sticky |
| 04:32.21 | rev | but meh |
| 04:32.21 | rev | that wasn't the best example... |
| 04:32.27 | warmi | this is sort of like having image selected in a program like photoshop ? ( I am talking about this mouse squeak logo ) |
| 04:32.28 | warmi | ? |
| 04:32.37 | rev | well |
| 04:32.38 | rev | not quite |
| 04:33.01 | rev | in this case, the squeak logo itself is actually a raster image, yes |
| 04:33.02 | rev | but |
| 04:33.11 | rev | each of those buttons has an action |
| 04:33.22 | rev | and you can bring that "halo" up on *any* gui object you see on the screen |
| 04:33.32 | warmi | yeah, makes sense |
| 04:33.34 | rev | from a bitmap like that, to a button, menu item or text box |
| 04:34.01 | warmi | on the other hand I don't see how is that different than say having bunch of default "Action" buttons on top of your Window Manager window frame ? |
| 04:34.17 | *** join/#zaurus W8TVI (~W8TVI@1114111523.mi.dial.hexcom.net) |
| 04:35.31 | warmi | of course X is not a best example since the whole concepf of WM was badly implemented ( WMs and Apps don't have enough way to influence/query each other - ) |
| 04:35.32 | rev | going clockwise: the pink X deletes/closes the GUI object, the red button brings up a menu of options for it, the black button picks it up and moves it, the brown moves in place, the green makes a duplicate, ... the purple changes color, the yello resizes, the question mark gets help, the blue rotates, the little aqua eye allows you to attach scripts to events |
| 04:35.42 | rev | (like, double click on this gui object does this or that, etc" |
| 04:36.05 | oGMo | meh |
| 04:36.06 | rev | it's different because you can do this interaction with any GUI object |
| 04:36.09 | oGMo | applications suck anyway |
| 04:36.17 | rev | oGMo: yeah |
| 04:36.23 | oGMo | talk about the best of 60s technology ;P ;) |
| 04:36.25 | rev | heh |
| 04:36.37 | rev | i can't tell if you're mocking me or serious |
| 04:36.39 | rev | :P |
| 04:36.41 | oGMo | consider we're still programming identically to the way they did 40 years ago |
| 04:36.48 | rev | we pretty much are |
| 04:36.53 | rev | rather, most folks are |
| 04:37.04 | oGMo | rev: actually i was just tangentially addressing warmi's window manager comments |
| 04:37.07 | warmi | well, consider we are still driving almost identically to the way they did 40 or even 80 years ago |
| 04:37.13 | oGMo | right, because actually i'm not :) |
| 04:37.16 | warmi | some things simply make sense: -) |
| 04:37.18 | rev | dynapad is an attempt to at least try to bring my personal computing environment forward to the mid 80s at least :) |
| 04:37.20 | oGMo | and i assume a few others aren't either |
| 04:37.30 | oGMo | warmi: yes, and this isn't one of them |
| 04:37.30 | oGMo | ;) |
| 04:38.01 | warmi | well, I won't dispute that |
| 04:38.09 | rev | some things just do continue to make sense, yes |
| 04:38.15 | oGMo | ah, squeak |
| 04:38.22 | rev | but that argument is more often just used as a cop out for non-evolution or non-innovation |
| 04:38.33 | oGMo | i have a few things against squeak |
| 04:38.39 | oGMo | but yeah |
| 04:38.45 | oGMo | rev: exactly |
| 04:38.57 | rev | squeak ain't perfect |
| 04:39.00 | warmi | well, to tell you the truth Smalltalk sounds to me like C++ done really well and without all that C baggage |
| 04:39.08 | radsaq | gee I love when opera causes qtopia to get OOM killed |
| 04:39.08 | rev | but it's the best thing i've got for me at this moment |
| 04:39.18 | oGMo | radsaq#@! |
| 04:39.22 | rev | well, Smalltalk is the first "fully" object oriented language |
| 04:39.28 | radsaq | oGMo! |
| 04:39.30 | rev | although Simula is where the ideas were really invented and implemented |
| 04:39.30 | oGMo | smalltalk is nifty |
| 04:39.37 | rev | http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/squeak/bencher.jpg |
| 04:39.50 | rev | (an example of an ugly, but not as so damn ugly Squeak app of mine) |
| 04:39.56 | oGMo | rev, my main objection is that it's tied to a language |
| 04:40.07 | rev | oGMo: i'm keeping my eyes on Slate- http://slate.tunes.org |
| 04:40.18 | oGMo | meh, another language ;) |
| 04:40.22 | rev | oGMo: that what is? squeak, or morphic? |
| 04:40.29 | rev | slate will be, like smalltalk, more than a language |
| 04:40.30 | oGMo | also, i don't like prototyping OOP |
| 04:40.35 | rev | yeah |
| 04:40.38 | oGMo | rev: squeak and slate |
| 04:40.47 | warmi | rev ugliness doesn't matter cause it is just a matter of badly ordered pixels ... this can be fixee relatively easy |
| 04:40.52 | rev | yeah |
| 04:40.59 | oGMo | prototyping is actually far less flexible and useful than class-based OOP |
| 04:41.04 | W8TVI | Is there a package that I can download so I can use opie programs on qt/sharp rom? |
| 04:41.06 | rev | you can load IceWM themes into squeak, i'm trying to find a screenie i took |
| 04:41.22 | rev | oGMo: i personally apperciate a combo of it, even if optional |
| 04:41.33 | warmi | W8TVI : used to be that all you needed was opilib .. but I am not sure how it is these days |
| 04:41.41 | warmi | opielib even |
| 04:41.41 | oGMo | on a practical note, i wish squeak weren't an image-dumping deal |
| 04:41.47 | rev | http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/squeak/sq-w-theme.jpg |
| 04:41.48 | rev | there we go |
| 04:41.54 | rev | warmi: check that out |
| 04:41.56 | rev | a little less ugly |
| 04:42.07 | oGMo | rev: openlook theme! ;) |
| 04:42.10 | rev | that's what my Zaurus looks like, although fewer pixels |
| 04:42.15 | oGMo | i actually _liked_ openlook ;P |
| 04:42.18 | rev | well, that theme is bluecurve actually |
| 04:42.20 | warmi | ah .. smalltalk uses "natural language" ... |
| 04:42.23 | rev | but i have an openlook theme installed heh |
| 04:42.26 | oGMo | rev: whoa, you have squeak on the Z?! |
| 04:42.26 | rev | warmi: not really |
| 04:42.30 | warmi | uh .. I am not a big fan of this .. not since I tried Cobol :-) |
| 04:42.34 | rev | haha |
| 04:42.35 | oGMo | warmi: no it doesn't |
| 04:42.36 | rev | it's not like that |
| 04:42.45 | oGMo | warmi: it just looks somewhat natural sometimes |
| 04:42.52 | rev | oGMo: yeah, that is the only reason i have the Z! for dynapad, my PDA platform written in squeak |
| 04:43.07 | oGMo | it's "object method param1: val param2: val" or similar |
| 04:43.25 | rev | smalltalk is like "natural language" in that it follows the syntax: "subject verb" or "subject verb: object" |
| 04:43.29 | oGMo | rev: website to Z port and details? :) |
| 04:43.33 | rev | it's not like intercal or cobol |
| 04:43.53 | oGMo | 10 COME FROM 20 |
| 04:43.55 | oGMo | hehe |
| 04:43.57 | warmi | ah ok |
| 04:43.58 | oGMo | intercal |
| 04:44.04 | rev | oGMo: dynapad has an old release at http://spe.sf.net |
| 04:44.06 | rev | heh |
| 04:44.15 | rev | PLEASE DO THIS MR COMPUTER : !@#A + 23 |
| 04:44.22 | oGMo | heheheheh |
| 04:44.30 | rev | oGMo: squeak actually runs *really* nicely on the C760 |
| 04:44.42 | W8TVI | What is squeak? |
| 04:44.46 | oGMo | rev: unf... i wouldn't mind having a C760 with squeak on it |
| 04:44.52 | oGMo | it'd make the _ultimate_ pda |
| 04:44.54 | rev | yeah |
| 04:44.54 | warmi | well, my problem with Cobol was that this "naturalisation" of language didn'r really make anything easier butr resulted in extremely long and wordy code |
| 04:44.55 | rev | it is incredible |
| 04:45.19 | oGMo | people who can't code lose out on so much |
| 04:45.27 | rev | oGMo: that's my purpose with dynapad- to provide a totally extensible, dynamic user environment... object DB for data storage, no apps as such |
| 04:45.32 | oGMo | wait |
| 04:45.37 | rev | for example |
| 04:45.40 | oGMo | dynapad isn't the same as the Dynapad, right? |
| 04:45.53 | oGMo | oh, *reads wiki* |
| 04:45.56 | rev | do you mean the toshiba laptop? |
| 04:46.01 | rev | or Dynabook? |
| 04:46.12 | rev | Dynapad is my play on words on Alan Kay's Dynabook idea/goal |
| 04:46.13 | oGMo | er dynabook |
| 04:46.24 | oGMo | got it confused i guess |
| 04:46.35 | rev | yeah |
| 04:47.04 | W8TVI | Some one needs to port beowulf to run on the Z |
| 04:47.10 | oGMo | nah |
| 04:47.14 | W8TVI | 100 C760's :) |
| 04:47.22 | rev | http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/137 |
| 04:47.30 | rev | ^^ good general information on handheld Squeak VMs |
| 04:47.42 | rev | http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/2437 |
| 04:47.44 | rev | ^^ specific to the Z |
| 04:49.17 | rev | i'll be doing a review on the C760 actually |
| 04:49.21 | warmi | man I am so used to C/C++ way of doing things ( a C++ bigot) everything else seems so weird |
| 04:49.38 | oGMo | C++ sucks, really |
| 04:49.40 | rev | and i'll take a photo of it running squeak without any enlargement... everything is so tiny, yet very readable |
| 04:49.43 | oGMo | Qt is just unusually nice |
| 04:49.44 | flipppy | heh. i was like that |
| 04:49.47 | rev | yeah, c++ is nas-tie |
| 04:50.08 | warmi | I asume that patternCollection := #('*ColorSpuit*'). := is to avoid confusion with comparison sign ? |
| 04:50.17 | oGMo | (C++ sucks for reasons most people who say C++ sucks don't understand) |
| 04:50.31 | rev | oGMo: what would those reason be? :P |
| 04:50.37 | warmi | hehe |
| 04:50.41 | rev | warmi: yes |
| 04:50.46 | oGMo | rev, the fact it's a static language, #1 |
| 04:50.56 | oGMo | in fact, i think everything else stems from that :) |
| 04:50.58 | flipppy | shrug, i use it because its the best tool for a lot of jobs |
| 04:50.58 | rev | and possibly because of pascal and those early languages |
| 04:51.06 | rev | in smalltalk = tests for identity and == tests for equivalence |
| 04:51.23 | rev | that is = returns true if the two objects are the *same* |
| 04:51.33 | oGMo | i thought smalltalk originally used <- (one character arrow) for assignment |
| 04:51.36 | rev | in smalltalk, everything is an object, including numbers |
| 04:51.40 | rev | oGMo: yeah, it did |
| 04:51.48 | rev | and in squeak you can use _ |
| 04:51.50 | warmi | yeah, = is like Java's = and == is like java's .equal |
| 04:51.51 | oGMo | but := because people don't have that on their keyboard |
| 04:51.54 | rev | and in the default font it prints that <- arrow |
| 04:51.55 | oGMo | along with an up-arrow for returns |
| 04:51.59 | rev | typ |
| 04:52.00 | oGMo | rev: cute |
| 04:52.01 | rev | er yup |
| 04:52.06 | rev | one uses ^ for that |
| 04:52.09 | oGMo | yeah |
| 04:52.11 | rev | but it just shows ^ in squeak |
| 04:52.15 | rev | rather than the up arrow |
| 04:52.15 | W8TVI | I like my Sl-5500, but I want a C7601 |
| 04:52.23 | rev | warmi: yup |
| 04:52.24 | W8TVI | Er |
| 04:52.27 | rev | oGMo: how'd you like it? |
| 04:52.27 | W8TVI | I like my Sl-5500, but I want a C760! |
| 04:52.28 | W8TVI | Lol |
| 04:52.37 | rev | i've played with GST some, but it was such a pain to get any modules working |
| 04:52.39 | warmi | oGMo: C++ staticness allows for some nifty optimizations |
| 04:52.42 | Shtoink | W8TVI: I hear ya |
| 04:52.51 | oGMo | warmi: eh |
| 04:52.57 | rev | but that was 3 years ago, it's gotten a lot better since... i had writen some DB2 bindings for it while interning ;) |
| 04:52.58 | flipppy | yeah, i'd like a 760 |
| 04:53.03 | flipppy | but they're alittle pricey |
| 04:53.07 | oGMo | warmi: nothing you can't do with a properly-hinted dynamic language |
| 04:53.08 | rev | just a little! |
| 04:53.09 | oGMo | (read: lisp ;) |
| 04:53.14 | rev | mmm |
| 04:53.14 | rev | lisp |
| 04:53.36 | rev | oGMo: eh, ruby hasn't provided me with anything real special, so while i know it ok, i've not turned to it for any projects |
| 04:53.38 | oGMo | rev: i like it a lot, but i like ruby because it's a bit more modern (and less buggy... at the time, gst was quite buggy) |
| 04:53.43 | rev | yeah |
| 04:53.43 | warmi | oGMO: I am sure but , for the most part, C++ gets the job done |
| 04:53.56 | rev | that is, while i typically download squeak in a big-ass image, it's not just that way anymore |
| 04:53.58 | W8TVI | Any of the Zaurii are dam* cool... |
| 04:53.59 | oGMo | ruby actually has some nice things that are fairly special for modern languages |
| 04:54.09 | oGMo | warmi: not really |
| 04:54.11 | rev | oGMo: like what? (besides the obvious) |
| 04:54.13 | *** join/#zaurus Taim (~taim@27.nwkn2.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 04:54.14 | W8TVI | Much cooler than a palm |
| 04:54.21 | rev | W8TVI: not always... |
| 04:54.22 | oGMo | warmi: not when you go beyond 60s-style programming methodologies |
| 04:54.27 | warmi | W8TVI : well, but it is expensive like hell |
| 04:54.42 | rev | and lacking a lot of software |
| 04:54.45 | rev | compared to PalmOS devices |
| 04:55.08 | rev | a couple things to note- 1) dynapad can put apps and stuff in the object DB |
| 04:55.09 | oGMo | rev: extreme dynamicism, the ability to "reopen" and modify classes after the fact, treating everything as an object, blocks, continuations, and a really really simple C API |
| 04:55.17 | rev | the core image is 4 MB and you load other stuff |
| 04:55.25 | warmi | well, one can afford to go beyond true and tested in academic enviroment but people have to deal with real deadlines and real projects .. ;-) |
| 04:55.31 | rev | oGMo: oh, i thought it would be stuff maybe Smalltalk didn't have- always looking for fun stuff like that :D |
| 04:55.33 | W8TVI | I replaced all the palm programs that I USE with ones for the Z |
| 04:55.46 | rev | and 2) there has been tons of module work for the base squeak system in the last year |
| 04:55.51 | oGMo | the things it really lacks are #1 macros (lisp-style, of course) and #2 a VM/full compiler |
| 04:56.08 | rev | people have Squeak images as small as 99 K now |
| 04:56.11 | rev | which then load everything else |
| 04:56.13 | rev | which isn't bad at all |
| 04:56.21 | rev | it's definately not your typical monolithic image |
| 04:56.34 | oGMo | rev: nah... what ruby does well is learning from smalltalk/lisp and implementing it in a modern and accessible fashion |
| 04:56.40 | W8TVI | TMA-1 |
| 04:56.44 | oGMo | rev: nice |
| 04:57.04 | rev | oGMo: accessible to unix programmers... lisp and smalltalk are very accessible and modern (imho), but they're not what most unix programmers expect |
| 04:57.05 | oGMo | also ruby isn't threadsafe, which pisses me off from time to time |
| 04:57.14 | oGMo | rev: well |
| 04:57.17 | rev | oGMo: yeah, there is some crazy stuff going on these days |
| 04:57.35 | rev | you don't use squeak like you would a stereotypically unix scripting language |
| 04:57.37 | oGMo | lisp is less accessible than smalltalk, mostly because most free implementations require one to be somewhat of a wizard to compile |
| 04:57.40 | rev | GST is a lot closer though |
| 04:57.46 | oGMo | rev: yeah |
| 04:57.49 | oGMo | which is why i liked gst |
| 04:57.52 | rev | yeah |
| 04:58.04 | rev | for me, i prefer squeak- but i use squeak *as my desktop* |
| 04:58.09 | oGMo | cool |
| 04:58.14 | rev | i guess i'm akin to those hardcore Emacs users |
| 04:58.28 | oGMo | i want mephle (a ruby project of mine) to be my desktop |
| 04:58.36 | oGMo | rev: hehe |
| 04:58.48 | oGMo | the thing is people fail to see extreme extensibility as a good thing for some reason |
| 04:58.56 | rev | i mean, there are a lot of the core apps i need written in Squeak- IRC client, very basic web browser, a very good Vt100 terminal, email client, all the dev tools i need |
| 04:59.02 | rev | oGMo: got a url for mephle? |
| 04:59.16 | oGMo | rev: haven't formally released it yet ;/ |
| 04:59.23 | rev | does it do much yet? |
| 04:59.28 | oGMo | yes ;) |
| 04:59.31 | rev | if you ever need someone to play, let me know... :) |
| 04:59.50 | rev | the only thing i really need OS X/Linux/Windows for is a decent web browser |
| 04:59.57 | oGMo | it's basically a transparently-persistant transparently-networked interface-independent framework for ruby |
| 05:00.15 | rev | and i have means to deal with that |
| 05:00.16 | rev | duuude |
| 05:00.20 | rev | hook me up |
| 05:00.30 | rev | i'll promise non-sharage and stealing |
| 05:00.49 | rev | that is, on my iBook under OS X, i use applescript to have squeak and OS X communicate |
| 05:00.58 | oGMo | like, i can grab an object on server 1 and another on server 2, and call a method on server 3 with them as parameters, and there's _no_ special code |
| 05:01.10 | oGMo | (actually that's not true, i don't have connection code yet, but that's all i need) |
| 05:01.25 | oGMo | (server cross-connection code that is) |
| 05:01.52 | oGMo | rev: well, it's there, but there's no documentation and it's mostly focused on the html/cgi interface at the moment |
| 05:01.57 | oGMo | you'd be best to wait for 1.0 |
| 05:02.03 | rev | ok |
| 05:02.04 | rev | fair enough |
| 05:02.07 | oGMo | it's GPL so you can't steal much ;) |
| 05:02.24 | oGMo | or, conversely, you can steal as much as you like |
| 05:02.29 | warmi | heh |
| 05:02.32 | rev | when i click a URL in the squeak email client, it will open up the page in Safari, IE (on Windows), Mozilla, Links, or Scamper (the simple built-in Squeak browser) depending on the platform and settings |
| 05:02.33 | rev | well |
| 05:02.36 | rev | i could steal your glory |
| 05:02.43 | rev | and try to take credit |
| 05:02.50 | rev | i typically run squeak full screen |
| 05:03.14 | W8TVI | If its GPL its not really stealing |
| 05:03.18 | rev | and then i've a menu, like the OS 9 app menu in the upper right hand of the screen, where i've listed all of my squeak windows as well as external OS X apps |
| 05:03.39 | oGMo | maybe, i have various legal documents and witnesses that would testify I own the rights to it, and i'll be registering a trademark and copyrights soon ;) |
| 05:03.49 | oGMo | (it'll remain gpl though) |
| 05:04.15 | rev | yeah |
| 05:04.15 | oGMo | W8TVI: exactly ;) |
| 05:04.16 | rev | nice |
| 05:04.27 | rev | i use some DO stuff like that in Dynapad |
| 05:04.49 | rev | thanks to powerful objects and a decent DO framework, i've basically killed the market for hotsync conduits, etc |
| 05:04.55 | rev | nothing special for syncing data |
| 05:04.59 | oGMo | yeah |
| 05:04.59 | rev | it's all a db man |
| 05:05.11 | rev | i suppose if you wanted to import into outlook tho |
| 05:05.12 | oGMo | data is so passe ;) |
| 05:05.24 | W8TVI | I made a shell script for kismet on my Z |
| 05:05.25 | W8TVI | Http://www.kismetwireless.net/Forum/General/Messages/1057857804.496206 |
| 05:05.32 | rev | oGMo: :) |
| 05:05.36 | oGMo | outlook can suck it, i'd just have the scheduling system on both my workstation and my PDA |
| 05:05.44 | rev | that's what i do |
| 05:05.50 | oGMo | with Mephle i can just access the event objects remotely |
| 05:05.50 | rev | i just run Dynapad on my PDA and my desktop |
| 05:05.55 | rev | and have them keep their databases in sync |
| 05:05.57 | rev | exactly |
| 05:05.57 | oGMo | yeah |
| 05:05.58 | oGMo | nice |
| 05:06.00 | rev | i don't use mephine, but same idea |
| 05:06.04 | rev | and |
| 05:06.05 | oGMo | that's how things _should_ be done |
| 05:06.21 | rev | on the PDA side or workstation side, you can have it set to only sync items which match certain criterea |
| 05:06.25 | W8TVI | It starts the card, sets monitor mode, and starts kismet. then after you quit kismet it shuts the card down |
| 05:06.30 | rev | for most folks, the critereon would be category |
| 05:06.42 | rev | that is, only sync my Work calendar dates with my work computer |
| 05:06.46 | rev | don't put my personal stuff on there |
| 05:06.47 | rev | etc |
| 05:06.56 | rev | but much more powerful filtering is possible |
| 05:06.59 | rev | all in the same system |
| 05:07.00 | oGMo | personally i'd rather just plug my PDA in and access the objects on it directly, having it become a part of my desktop system |
| 05:07.09 | oGMo | i'm not sure i like syncing at all |
| 05:07.12 | rev | yeah |
| 05:07.13 | rev | i agree |
| 05:07.19 | rev | again, you can do that with dynapad too |
| 05:07.28 | rev | that is, just have it to the DO calls right to the PDA |
| 05:07.33 | rev | thanks to USBnet on the Z :) |
| 05:07.35 | oGMo | or, when we get ubiquitous wireless broadband, my PDA can just access my server ;) |
| 05:07.39 | rev | or wifi/ethernet etc |
| 05:07.40 | W8TVI | How does that script look to you guys |
| 05:07.41 | oGMo | rev: yep |
| 05:08.03 | rev | something i demo occasionally is to only sync Addressbook entries where the person lives in Minneapolis, MN |
| 05:08.22 | rev | you can filter by categories, etc... or you can just pass it a block and battabing, have all the power you want |
| 05:09.43 | rev | it's slick |
| 05:09.55 | rev | with dynapad, one typically doesn't use seperate addressbook/calendar/todo apps |
| 05:10.18 | rev | while it's possible and i have "apps" that behave that way too, for people which prefer it |
| 05:10.23 | rev | but you just browse the database |
| 05:10.41 | rev | and the model objects know how they should be presented, be it for edit or view |
| 05:11.08 | oGMo | hehe cool |
| 05:11.08 | rev | you can view many types of data, copy and paste, move, etc without having to switch apps or do a cranial context-switch |
| 05:11.17 | oGMo | i should check out dynapad |
| 05:11.28 | rev | well, the release on the website doesn't do much of this stuff |
| 05:11.31 | rev | it's literally a year old |
| 05:11.34 | oGMo | oh hrm |
| 05:11.38 | oGMo | update! ;) |
| 05:11.40 | rev | but end of summer will be a big honkin release |
| 05:11.44 | oGMo | you should make a 5500 rom too |
| 05:11.57 | rev | it's all cross-platform, naturally! :) |
| 05:12.05 | oGMo | naturally. ;) |
| 05:12.05 | rev | but yeah |
| 05:12.13 | rev | i'm going to get an OZ "distro" made |
| 05:12.19 | rev | i've talked to kergoth a little about it |
| 05:12.26 | rev | have a ROM all set up |
| 05:12.50 | oGMo | that'd rock |
| 05:13.00 | rev | have a really bare bones linux in ROM (most userland gone), Squeak VM and then the base image (around 4 MB) |
| 05:13.09 | rev | then put the object DB into non-ROM storage |
| 05:13.10 | oGMo | that'd _rock_ ;) |
| 05:13.15 | oGMo | yeah |
| 05:13.21 | oGMo | can you have more than one DB? |
| 05:13.45 | rev | i know, i can't wait until this new release... when i finally pull together all the disparate stuff i've been doing |
| 05:13.51 | rev | yes, but right now it's not that exciting |
| 05:13.57 | rev | that is |
| 05:14.04 | *** join/#zaurus G-Shock (~chatzilla@adsl-64-175-122-102.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 05:14.09 | rev | the DB just lives within a bunch of folders |
| 05:14.09 | W8TVI | It seems to me that you should be able to hack something on the sharp rom to make the internal flash R/W like OZ |
| 05:14.28 | rev | on a fat or ext formatted card/space |
| 05:14.44 | oGMo | rev: well |
| 05:14.44 | rev | you can have multiple DBs, switching between them... but when you're in one, you can't get to info from the other |
| 05:14.53 | oGMo | rev: you need to be able to plug in a CF/SD card for more ;) |
| 05:14.55 | rev | although that wouldn't be hard to do, but it'd be a bit weird at times |
| 05:14.57 | oGMo | that's the only thing |
| 05:14.59 | rev | oGMo: naturally |
| 05:15.23 | rev | ohhh |
| 05:15.26 | rev | you mean for that sort of situation |
| 05:15.33 | rev | i thought you meant for having like multiple users |
| 05:15.38 | rev | which is doable too |
| 05:15.56 | rev | one great idea i stole from the newton is what were called "union soups" in NewtonOS lingo |
| 05:16.09 | rev | soups being object datastores |
| 05:16.23 | W8TVI | I noticed in the shutdown app that there is a button that says "Terminate Qtopia" |
| 05:16.39 | W8TVI | Does that give you a full screen CLI? |
| 05:16.40 | rev | but you can open a union db asking for all objects of this type, etc and itl'l give you data from all dbs, seamlessly |
| 05:17.08 | W8TVI | The real linux command line? |
| 05:17.12 | rev | and those DBs could be, for example: internal, CF, SD, TCP/IP shared... |
| 05:17.14 | rev | W8TVI: yes |
| 05:17.19 | W8TVI | Cool |
| 05:17.22 | rev | although there is a Terminal app for that too |
| 05:17.26 | rev | that you can run in QPE itsel;f |
| 05:17.54 | W8TVI | I have it, but I want to be able to get to the Cli without the gui too |
| 05:17.56 | *** part/#zaurus G-Shock (~chatzilla@adsl-64-175-122-102.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 05:18.11 | W8TVI | Whats the command for restarting Qt? |
| 05:18.34 | W8TVI | And does typeing reboot work on the Z? |
| 05:18.46 | rev | you reboot |
| 05:18.48 | rev | i think so |
| 05:18.52 | rev | you can just flip the switch |
| 05:18.52 | W8TVI | Ok |
| 05:18.56 | rev | the batt swtich |
| 05:19.00 | W8TVI | Yeah |
| 05:19.27 | W8TVI | I want to try to run zismet from the read CLI |
| 05:20.08 | rev | ah |
| 05:20.15 | rev | do you have a 5500? |
| 05:20.19 | W8TVI | Yeah |
| 05:20.22 | rev | you can do it on boot too |
| 05:20.31 | rev | like when it's at the Wait... part of the text boot |
| 05:20.34 | W8TVI | With the sharp 3.10 rom |
| 05:20.34 | rev | do you know what i'm talking about? |
| 05:20.38 | W8TVI | Yeah |
| 05:20.41 | rev | and you hit... 'a' i tihnk? |
| 05:20.50 | rev | and it'll give you a localhost login: |
| 05:21.11 | rev | i have no 5500 anymore and haven't for a month, so i can't remember what the heck to do |
| 05:21.14 | W8TVI | No password? |
| 05:21.16 | rev | but i thik that's it |
| 05:21.18 | rev | well |
| 05:21.25 | rev | on the 2.38 ROM, the login was root w/ no password |
| 05:21.28 | rev | no sure if 3.10 is different |
| 05:21.45 | Shtoink | I installed the sharp 3.1 rom and was very disappointed |
| 05:21.46 | W8TVI | Not "a" |
| 05:21.56 | Shtoink | I really prefer oz the the sharp roms |
| 05:23.22 | W8TVI | Go into console mode |
| 05:23.23 | W8TVI | When the Zaurus first boots up, before the 'Zaurus' logo appears, there is a text screen containing boot-up messages. At one point, it says "Wait...". If you push the key, and then select the "a" option, you'll be given a log-in prompt. |
| 05:23.26 | rev | anyone willing to rip the opera 6 ipk for me? |
| 05:23.32 | rev | that was for the 2.38 ROM though |
| 05:23.36 | rev | things may have changed |
| 05:23.48 | VampireZIM | hey rev |
| 05:23.56 | W8TVI | If you push the key = If you push the / key |
| 05:23.58 | Shtoink | I have on my CF card... |
| 05:24.04 | rev | VampireZIM: hey man! |
| 05:24.10 | VampireZIM | how are you? |
| 05:24.17 | rev | not too shabby... you? |
| 05:24.24 | rev | just chilling with my sister, she's playing ocarina |
| 05:24.25 | VampireZIM | just woke up from a nap, blah |
| 05:24.26 | VampireZIM | hehe |
| 05:24.29 | W8TVI | It works on the 3.1 rom |
| 05:24.32 | rev | she's visiting me for the weekend ;) |
| 05:24.42 | VampireZIM | cool, ocarina? |
| 05:24.51 | Shtoink | rev: you can grab it out of the apps pack from the tkc rom section |
| 05:24.55 | rev | ocarina of time |
| 05:24.56 | W8TVI | Root login no pass |
| 05:25.03 | rev | zelda |
| 05:25.10 | VampireZIM | hmm |
| 05:25.22 | VampireZIM | hey, i will give you my C700 and $300 for your C760 |
| 05:25.22 | VampireZIM | :) |
| 05:25.25 | rev | prollythe best game ever |
| 05:25.27 | rev | heh |
| 05:25.32 | W8TVI | This is alot easyer to read |
| 05:25.36 | rev | sure thing man :P |
| 05:25.49 | VampireZIM | want my address? |
| 05:25.50 | VampireZIM | :) |
| 05:26.39 | rev | sure |
| 05:26.46 | rev | but first i gotta receve my $300 |
| 05:27.04 | W8TVI | Yes! kismet works on console mode |
| 05:27.04 | rev | and then as a gesture of good will i'll send you the C760 |
| 05:27.10 | rev | and when you get it, you send me the c700 |
| 05:33.46 | W8TVI | What is cramfs? |
| 05:34.34 | W8TVI | Nevermind |
| 05:35.05 | *** join/#zaurus sony (~sony@bb-203-125-82-230.singnet.com.sg) |
| 05:35.07 | sony | hi |
| 05:35.37 | sony | is there any websites that takes international orders for c760? |
| 05:35.55 | rev | for where? |
| 05:36.01 | sony | singapore |
| 05:36.01 | rev | singapore? |
| 05:36.12 | rev | maybe one ofthe korean or jp suppliers? |
| 05:36.17 | rev | do you need it in english? |
| 05:36.21 | W8TVI | Dang... no way to make the cramfs mount rw |
| 05:36.22 | sony | nope |
| 05:36.36 | rev | so, japanese would be fine? |
| 05:36.36 | sony | i check with the japanese websites, they need a japanese address |
| 05:36.37 | sony | darn |
| 05:36.39 | rev | ah |
| 05:36.52 | rev | what abou the ... |
| 05:36.53 | rev | just a sec |
| 05:37.10 | sony | thanks |
| 05:38.45 | rev | http://shop.brando.com.hk |
| 05:39.29 | sony | thanks |
| 05:39.31 | sony | :> |
| 05:39.42 | rev | not sure if you coudl orde from there, but seems like there'd be an ok chance |
| 05:40.21 | sony | sigh..only c700 |
| 05:40.37 | rev | really? :( |
| 05:40.38 | rev | email them |
| 05:40.49 | rev | they sell the 50 and 60 too |
| 05:40.53 | sony | singapore is worse... dun even have c700 |
| 05:40.56 | rev | http://www.zaurus.com/dev/board/index.php?act=ST&f=27&t=3668&s=7ee6c145b82a284320e417503dff4f9f |
| 05:41.12 | rev | ask brando@brando.com.hk |
| 05:41.31 | sony | ok..thanks for the help |
| 05:41.34 | sony | you from hk? |
| 05:41.37 | rev | nope |
| 05:41.40 | rev | i'm from the states |
| 05:41.53 | sony | metal? new casing? |
| 05:41.57 | sony | i see.. |
| 05:42.22 | rev | the stylus with the C700 is metal instead of all plastic |
| 05:42.26 | rev | well, it's part metal and part plastic |
| 05:42.31 | rev | but the c760 is all plastic |
| 05:42.32 | rev | blech |
| 05:42.34 | rev | screw that |
| 05:42.58 | rev | you think they could afford that little bit of class with a n $800 pda! :P |
| 05:42.59 | cyn | same size rev? |
| 05:43.06 | cyn | 800!? |
| 05:43.24 | cyn | that's import + knockup |
| 05:43.35 | cyn | haha markup i mean |
| 05:45.51 | sony | 800! |
| 05:45.55 | rev | yeah |
| 05:45.56 | rev | knockup |
| 05:45.57 | rev | heh |
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| 05:46.14 | rev | $600-650 new in JP |
| 05:46.14 | sony | better to get someone to buy it from japan and mail it to you |
| 05:46.32 | rev | then you'd be without the nice localization |
| 05:46.40 | rev | there are other places which do the import localziation too |
| 05:46.43 | rev | for a little cheaper |
| 05:46.47 | rev | $800 is from dynamism |
| 05:46.53 | rev | conics.net is $729 |
| 05:46.57 | sony | no prob.. |
| 05:47.53 | rev | i got my C760 via a donation anyway |
| 05:47.56 | rev | :) |
| 05:48.14 | W8TVI- | How did you do that/ |
| 05:48.15 | W8TVI- | ? |
| 05:48.21 | rev | http://spe.sf.net |
| 05:48.32 | rev | i'm working on a new PDA platform |
| 05:48.34 | rev | called Dynapad |
| 05:48.51 | *** join/#zaurus oGMo_ (~rpav@c-67-161-101-46.client.comcast.net) |
| 05:49.06 | rev | re oGMo_ |
| 05:49.16 | oGMo | rello |
| 05:49.35 | cyn | rev i got my c700 straight from japan and manually localized in < 10 mins |
| 05:49.46 | rev | werd |
| 05:49.48 | sig | http://www.romanm.ch/ascii-movies/ascii-katze.htm |
| 05:49.54 | cyn | heh ascii movies |
| 05:50.30 | rev | duuude |
| 05:50.42 | rev | y'all are prolly windoze and linux users, so you may have missed out |
| 05:50.46 | rev | but |
| 05:50.58 | rev | someone wrote a quicktime plugin for rendering into ASCII in a terminal |
| 05:51.10 | rev | and you can watch/view *any* QT format in ASCII |
| 05:51.28 | rev | including Flash, QT .mov, avi, mpeg, etc etc |
| 05:51.30 | rev | it's a lot of fun |
| 05:51.47 | rev | great to watch to the star wars gangsta rap swf |
| 05:51.49 | rev | in a huge terminal |
| 05:51.52 | rev | tiny font, full screen |
| 05:52.11 | rev | it'll take up as much space col x lines as you give it |
| 05:53.14 | W8TVI- | Er... |
| 05:53.28 | cyn | prolly heavier overhead tho |
| 05:53.29 | VampireZIM | heh |
| 05:53.42 | rev | not that bad actually |
| 05:53.43 | rev | i mean |
| 05:53.44 | VampireZIM | what are the benefits of running Dynapad? |
| 05:53.45 | cyn | can't really see how it could be less |
| 05:53.48 | W8TVI- | I told my pda to shut down and its froze with both lights on |
| 05:53.56 | rev | W8TVI-: well |
| 05:54.01 | rev | W8TVI-: that's normal for a 5500 |
| 05:54.09 | rev | sounds like the dual reboot problem |
| 05:54.11 | W8TVI- | Reboot that is |
| 05:54.18 | W8TVI- | Huh? |
| 05:54.22 | rev | if you do two reboots but without a suspend in between it'll do that |
| 05:54.33 | rev | both lights go on, the screen often looks fucked up, and you loose everything in your RAM |
| 05:54.39 | rev | hope you got a back up |
| 05:54.47 | cyn | wow that's uber weak |
| 05:54.48 | W8TVI- | I did just do a backup |
| 05:54.50 | rev | yup |
| 05:54.52 | rev | good |
| 05:55.05 | cyn | but, just another reason to use oz or another alternative |
| 05:55.08 | rev | that is why they ship flash + ram instead of just split RAM |
| 05:55.09 | VampireZIM | that reminds me |
| 05:55.20 | rev | cuz they can't do it without fucking up :( |
| 05:55.22 | cyn | heh |
| 05:55.26 | rev | it's sad |
| 05:55.45 | cyn | i know the hacking and tweaking community would much prefer the ram :) |
| 05:55.50 | rev | i had to reboot my 5500 10x more than i've ever had to any WinCE /PocketPC PDA |
| 05:55.56 | rev | yeah |
| 05:55.57 | cyn | get a sd mmc or cf card for yer flash ffs |
| 05:56.04 | rev | that said, the C760 has been a lot more stable |
| 05:56.15 | rev | yeah |
| 05:56.16 | cyn | yea my c700s quite stable on the whole |
| 05:56.23 | W8TVI- | I have a sd card... tobad I can't load the OZ rom off of that |
| 05:56.29 | rev | it bothers me that you can't just adjust allocation like you can in WinCE |
| 05:56.29 | VampireZIM | rev: does your C760 screen seem unsually bright? |
| 05:56.31 | cyn | wow I just remembered i have two CF cards i borrowed from a friend |
| 05:56.35 | cyn | I should really get these back to him |
| 05:56.43 | cyn | VampireZIM: only in non-sunlight |
| 05:56.45 | rev | you have to *snicker* install a hacked ROM with the values hardcoded |
| 05:56.47 | rev | that is weak |
| 05:56.57 | rev | VampireZIM: it's brighter than most PDA screens, yes |
| 05:56.59 | VampireZIM | i cant believe i am even saying that, but at night i have to turn it down, its SOO bright |
| 05:57.03 | rev | although in a good way |
| 05:57.03 | rev | hehe |
| 05:57.05 | rev | yeah |
| 05:57.09 | rev | i do that on all PDAs tho |
| 05:57.16 | rev | turn the backlight to the lopwest |
| 05:57.16 | cyn | you can adjust the allocation with a modified rom |
| 05:57.21 | rev | if i'm reading an ebook in bed or something |
| 05:57.26 | rev | or else it's waaay toooo bright |
| 05:57.27 | W8TVI- | So I have to push the full reset button to get it out of this state? |
| 05:57.27 | VampireZIM | i dont, i usuall am always trying to turn it brighter on pdas |
| 05:57.29 | rev | and my eyes burn out |
| 05:57.30 | cyn | well, okay, you'd need some manner of lilo equivalent which noone uses |
| 05:57.36 | rev | W8TVI-: yup |
| 05:57.39 | VampireZIM | was the 5500 screen really good? |
| 05:57.44 | rev | cyn: ah |
| 05:57.46 | rev | VampireZIM: HAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 05:57.47 | rev | NO |
| 05:57.51 | oGMo | heheh |
| 05:57.56 | rev | the 5500 screen is the *worst* screen i've ever seen on a PDA |
| 05:57.59 | cyn | the c7x0 screens are to die for |
| 05:58.00 | rev | absolute shite |
| 05:58.02 | rev | yeah |
| 05:58.07 | cyn | I got my pda for the screen knowing about the cache bug |
| 05:58.09 | rev | the c7x0 screens are utter drool worthy |
| 05:58.10 | cyn | coz I couldn't wait |
| 05:58.11 | rev | except |
| 05:58.12 | rev | :( |
| 05:58.17 | rev | they're not reflective |
| 05:58.21 | cyn | but I wanted the screen so I'm not disappointed |
| 05:58.25 | rev | but in some sunlight they're still readable |
| 05:58.28 | VampireZIM | hehe |
| 05:58.31 | cyn | I can use it in all but the brightest sunlight |
| 05:58.36 | rev | yeah |
| 05:58.37 | cyn | gotta turn the brightness up a notch or two tho |
| 05:58.41 | rev | yeah |
| 05:58.43 | rev | it's funny |
| 05:58.49 | cyn | but still don't need fullest |
| 05:58.58 | cyn | i have nfc when the full brightness would be useful |
| 05:59.00 | rev | before i got the 760, i could easily say that the best PDA screen i've seen was on the Dell Axim |
| 05:59.07 | rev | and that the worst was the SL-5500 |
| 05:59.08 | cyn | maybe if you don't want to take off your sunglasses |
| 05:59.18 | VampireZIM | why the worst? |
| 05:59.18 | rev | the funny part is that both screens are made by sharp |
| 05:59.24 | cyn | heh |
| 05:59.34 | VampireZIM | is 5600 better, have you seen it? |
| 05:59.37 | rev | for some reason, sharp uses their shitass screen for their own PDA and gives out the good stuff to del |
| 05:59.40 | rev | VampireZIM: nope, same screen |
| 05:59.42 | rev | i've seen it |
| 05:59.45 | rev | and seen part numbers |
| 05:59.48 | rev | same crappy screne |
| 05:59.52 | rev | it's the worse because |
| 05:59.57 | rev | it is oddly fuzzy |
| 06:00.01 | rev | not very sharp |
| 06:00.04 | VampireZIM | wierd |
| 06:00.06 | rev | it is *really* dim |
| 06:00.09 | rev | even at highest brightness |
| 06:00.20 | rev | it's not really fuzzy, i don't mean to make it sound like it's drunk-o-pda |
| 06:00.25 | sony | sharp makes good lcd screen... |
| 06:01.01 | rev | VampireZIM: but the 5500 at its brightest is about the second-to-lowest brighness level on my C760 |
| 06:01.11 | rev | sony: sometimes |
| 06:01.14 | VampireZIM | yuk |
| 06:01.15 | rev | hehe |
| 06:01.17 | rev | yeah |
| 06:01.18 | rev | and |
| 06:01.28 | rev | when you'd move the Z back and forth along a horizontal axis |
| 06:01.50 | rev | like if you were moving slightly while standing, sitting on the bus, or walking (etc), dark verticle lines appear |
| 06:02.19 | VampireZIM | sounds like a piece of shit |
| 06:02.24 | VampireZIM | glad i never bought one |
| 06:02.25 | rev | it is |
| 06:02.31 | rev | yup |
| 06:02.38 | VampireZIM | so you going to buy my SD? |
| 06:02.47 | rev | between that and the horrible software i felt ripped off even though i paid only $170 for it new |
| 06:02.55 | rev | well, i think i'll pass for now |
| 06:02.55 | rev | but |
| 06:03.04 | rev | if you haven't sold it when i get back from europe i may want it |
| 06:03.06 | rev | but don't hold it for me |
| 06:04.16 | VampireZIM | ok |
| 06:04.35 | rev | i want it, but i'm so poor with this trip |
| 06:04.39 | rev | it's like |
| 06:04.47 | rev | max aaron: beyond poor as hell |
| 06:04.47 | VampireZIM | wow, my internal flash is full |
| 06:04.53 | rev | mine is almost full |
| 06:04.54 | rev | i'm pissed |
| 06:05.00 | rev | i have almnost nothing on it |
| 06:05.01 | rev | heh |
| 06:05.14 | VampireZIM | me niether |
| 06:05.18 | W8TVI- | Whne I upgrade to the oz rom I should be take my backup and put it back on the Z, right? |
| 06:05.42 | rev | good question |
| 06:06.14 | W8TVI- | Hmmm... not EVERYthing |
| 06:07.41 | W8TVI- | But it looks like I might beable to edit some of this tree and have a new "backup" to restore |
| 06:08.57 | VampireZIM | uninstalling shit |
| 06:09.06 | VampireZIM | i need C760, more flash |
| 06:09.55 | rev | heh |
| 06:10.16 | rev | the C760 has this weird plastic thing on the bottom/back of it |
| 06:10.21 | rev | that the C700 and 750 don't have |
| 06:10.25 | rev | to accomdate the bigger battery |
| 06:11.15 | W8TVI- | Hmmm |
| 06:11.16 | W8TVI- | Crw-rw---- 1 root root 10, 32 Apr 25 23:00 usbmouse |
| 06:11.42 | rev | i wonder if a PCMCIA drive- that is, ym 2 GB PCMCIA drive from my Jornada 720 |
| 06:11.49 | rev | i'm going to miss being albe to store *everything* on my pda |
| 06:12.45 | VampireZIM | i think that tkc apps took up all my internal flash |
| 06:13.03 | rev | oucch |
| 06:13.07 | rev | how much you have? 64 mb? |
| 06:13.14 | VampireZIM | 30MB |
| 06:13.27 | rev | wow, that's it? |
| 06:13.31 | W8TVI- | Can you use the backup and restore program with Oz? |
| 06:13.59 | rev | no clue |
| 06:14.31 | W8TVI- | If you can... you'd be able to roll your own backup |
| 06:15.59 | rev | huh? |
| 06:16.03 | rev | i mean |
| 06:16.14 | rev | if you were using the same app i dunno if i'd call it roll-your-own |
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| 06:16.44 | W8TVI- | It makes a directory tree with the backup data in it |
| 06:17.56 | W8TVI- | You should be able to edit it and the text files that it makes and just restore your program data |
| 06:18.02 | rev | ah |
| 06:18.04 | rev | cool |
| 06:18.05 | rev | night all! |
| 06:18.07 | rev | time for bed |
| 06:18.18 | W8TVI- | That way you wouldn't mess up the OZ rom with stuff from thesharp rom |
| 06:18.23 | W8TVI- | Night rev |
| 06:19.05 | rev | sweet |
| 06:19.26 | W8TVI- | I'll just have to see if it works with the oZ rom |
| 06:25.22 | sony | oh... i juz heard from my fren that c760 is out of stock in japan |
| 06:25.54 | sony | :~~ |
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| 07:15.22 | VampireZIM | cool, address books are stored in XML |
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| 08:33.34 | ChipX86 | hey kendrick |
| 08:33.50 | kendrick | heya |
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| 10:30.15 | kendrick | cya folks |
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| 12:18.54 | prh | ok - if I've killeq qtopia and I've got a normal console. (C750) can anyone tell me how to enter a control char? like ^C or ^D, or change vt's? like alt-f1 |
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| 12:20.54 | Twiun | afaik the calendar key acts as ctrl |
| 12:20.59 | Twiun | in pure console mode |
| 12:21.09 | Twiun | no idea if there's an alt key |
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| 13:37.43 | *** topic/#zaurus is Sharp Zaurus Discussion | OpenZaurus discussion in #openzaurus and #openembedded | http://zaurus.com/ | http://myzaurus.com/ | SF zaurus mailing list subscribers will be transitioned to the new lists today! |
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| 14:31.00 | George- | whoa, tkc have their own rom!?!? |
| 14:32.30 | bach | George-: yup bu it is impossible to download |
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| 15:10.34 | George- | yo kergoth |
| 15:30.27 | rev|lib | yooo |
| 15:39.31 | sashz | hello kergoth |
| 15:39.58 | sashz | you know what inside SL-C700 updater.sh ? |
| 15:40.05 | kergoth | its an encrypted shell script. |
| 15:40.14 | kergoth | fucking idiots over at sharp. |
| 15:40.17 | sashz | i wrote encoder/decoder for it... |
| 15:40.21 | sashz | hehe |
| 15:40.36 | sashz | want see it? |
| 15:40.36 | kergoth | ah you did? what is it, just an xor? |
| 15:40.38 | *** join/#zaurus warmi (~a3c01504@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 15:41.05 | sashz | i analyse decoding output and made table for restouration... |
| 15:41.11 | sashz | wait , i will put it to site.. |
| 15:41.26 | warmi | hi |
| 15:41.37 | kergoth | k |
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| 15:42.54 | sashz | http://cacko.biz/~sash/slc7x0/ |
| 15:42.57 | sashz | see there |
| 15:42.59 | sashz | source |
| 15:43.08 | sashz | encoded updater.sh |
| 15:43.14 | sashz | hrr decoded sorry |
| 15:43.21 | sashz | and original updater |
| 15:43.46 | sashz | for decoding: encsh -c script |
| 15:43.57 | sashz | for decoding : encsh -d script |
| 15:44.19 | sashz | shit, for encoding: encsh -c script |
| 15:44.40 | *** join/#zaurus treke (~ggilbert@12.107.12.130) |
| 15:45.03 | kergoth | sashz: nice work there. I was needing exactly this last night, to flash a c750 i'm borrowing, since the c700 updater.sh model check makes it useless |
| 15:45.28 | sashz | kergoth, i also cracked flash rom in 750 |
| 15:45.59 | sashz | if you want i can put initrd.gz, which running when flashing new update... |
| 15:46.13 | sashz | i can put it to site ;) |
| 15:46.22 | kergoth | ah |
| 15:46.33 | kergoth | that in the small chunk of nor flash? |
| 15:46.59 | sashz | it gzipped ext2 ram disk image |
| 15:47.10 | sashz | wait i will put it too.... |
| 15:47.15 | kergoth | i know, i mean where is it in flash |
| 15:48.04 | kergoth | k |
| 15:48.45 | sashz | http://cacko.biz/~sash/slc7x0/initrd.gz |
| 15:48.48 | sashz | hehehe |
| 15:49.01 | sashz | ungzip it and mount as ext2 ;-) |
| 15:49.50 | sashz | i got slc750 and slc760 for making russian localization, so i will NEED get all it, because no sources on japan sites ;) hihi |
| 15:50.09 | sashz | ... i was need ... |
| 15:50.38 | TimRiker | sashz: Nice work! |
| 15:50.43 | sashz | ahhhhh, it in /dev/mtdblock1 |
| 15:51.57 | kergoth | sashz: okay, thats what i figured |
| 15:52.01 | cyn | sashz: are those screenies the rom it comes with? |
| 15:52.10 | sashz | http://cacko.biz/~sash/slc7x0/inside.txt |
| 15:52.11 | cyn | ( http://cacko.biz/~sash/slc760/ ) |
| 15:52.16 | TimRiker | sashz: is the initrd.gz just in the nor someplace? |
| 15:52.29 | sashz | there interesting parts what inside mtd1 |
| 15:52.52 | cyn | woo opera |
| 15:53.00 | sashz | TimRiker : see inside.txt , there smalllayout ;) |
| 15:53.06 | cyn | man those icons are so much nicer than the crap that came on the c700 |
| 15:53.07 | TimRiker | ah. ok. we should put up a wiki page on this stuff and add to it as we go. thoughts? |
| 15:53.14 | cyn | well that stupid grinning star is still there |
| 15:53.32 | sashz | cyn whih screens? |
| 15:53.48 | cyn | http://cacko.biz/~sash/slc760/ |
| 15:54.10 | sashz | ahhh, no, its part of my work for russian localization |
| 15:54.18 | cyn | ahh - good work then :) |
| 15:54.33 | sashz | i made it for one russian company which sell zauruses in russia |
| 15:55.52 | sashz | soon i will made free version for all ;) |
| 15:56.35 | prh | excellent work! |
| 15:56.46 | TimRiker | so in diagnostics mode it's booting linux now? |
| 15:57.11 | prh | has anyone dumped the 750/760 rom so that if I was playing around and broke stuff, I'd be able to restore? |
| 15:57.38 | prh | or can I do that? |
| 15:58.05 | prh | say dd if=/dev/mtdblock1 of=/mnt/cf/part1 sort of thing? |
| 15:58.31 | kergoth | you only need to back up what will be touched by the flash process |
| 15:58.42 | kergoth | thanks to sashz here, I think its time I tested oz on a c750 |
| 15:58.44 | prh | what will be touched by the flash process? |
| 15:58.51 | prh | kergoth: :O) |
| 15:59.47 | kergoth | shit, i forgot my cf and sd cards at home. grr. |
| 15:59.49 | prh | thats a point - why is there no opera on the 7x0 ? |
| 15:59.51 | kergoth | will have to grab em on lunch |
| 15:59.56 | kergoth | prh: it comes with NetFront |
| 16:00.04 | prh | but opera is better :O( |
| 16:00.07 | sashz | ;) i made backup from service menu for C750, but for C760 havent big CF or MMC card :( |
| 16:00.17 | sashz | yes, opera better ;) |
| 16:00.36 | treke | kergoth: you see that tkc has links to all of the closed source apps from the 3.1 rom? :) |
| 16:00.38 | sashz | but, in opera not working proxy setting from NetworkSettings |
| 16:00.39 | prh | sashz: you opera working on the 7x0? |
| 16:00.45 | sashz | yes |
| 16:00.57 | kergoth | treke: eh? |
| 16:00.58 | prh | oooh - in compatibility (ie low res) mode? |
| 16:01.00 | rev|lib | opera 6 works on my C760 |
| 16:01.03 | prh | or properly? |
| 16:01.08 | sashz | no , in 640x480 |
| 16:01.10 | rev|lib | yup |
| 16:01.11 | rev|lib | same here |
| 16:01.14 | prh | oooh |
| 16:01.17 | rev|lib | Opera 5 doesn't work right in 640x480 though |
| 16:01.18 | sashz | only small buttons ;) |
| 16:01.24 | rev|lib | sashz: do you have the icons? |
| 16:01.28 | rev|lib | mine are just blank |
| 16:01.31 | rev|lib | but i know hwere to click :P |
| 16:01.32 | treke | kergoth: There is a tarred up hancom, opera, java, and other closed source ipks on the "tkc" rom |
| 16:01.37 | rev|lib | yeah |
| 16:01.37 | kergoth | treke: ahh |
| 16:01.38 | prh | so where are you guyds getting opera 6 from? |
| 16:01.39 | rev|lib | that's hwerei got mine |
| 16:01.43 | sashz | yes, you need made right package with opera |
| 16:01.48 | rev|lib | i got mine frmo thekompany apps.tgz |
| 16:02.07 | rev|lib | ack |
| 16:02.25 | sashz | http://cacko.biz/~sash/opera-sl/opera_6.0_arm.ipk |
| 16:02.32 | prh | ooh ta |
| 16:02.33 | rev|lib | ah |
| 16:02.34 | rev|lib | werd |
| 16:02.38 | sashz | install it on 750 or 760 or 700 |
| 16:02.59 | sashz | than from root: chown -R zaurus:qpe /home/zaurus/.opera |
| 16:03.00 | prh | sashz: sharp rom? oz? both? |
| 16:04.04 | sashz | this package for SL-C7x0 |
| 16:04.10 | sashz | sharp rom |
| 16:04.44 | kergoth | i should get off my ass and finish the qt/e keyboard handler, and fix the automatic rotation |
| 16:04.47 | kergoth | (oz on c7x0) |
| 16:05.21 | sashz | heh, when i will finish localization i will try run Qtopia 1.6 on C700 :) |
| 16:05.35 | prh | oh the other thing I want is support for the ratoc usb-host CF card... |
| 16:05.36 | sashz | C750 and 760 too ;) |
| 16:07.29 | rev|lib | man |
| 16:07.39 | rev|lib | so... ugly... |
| 16:12.58 | sashz | <TimRiker> ah. ok. we should put up a wiki page on this stuff and add to it as we go. thoughts? --- yes, of course, good, all must have chance for look inside this rom ;) hehe |
| 16:14.55 | TimRiker | sashz: I'd recommend you do NOT distribute the opera binary. |
| 16:15.01 | sashz | hmm |
| 16:15.08 | sashz | ok, now will remove it... |
| 16:15.20 | TimRiker | though a script to build the ipk from a sl5500 rom would be a Good Thing. |
| 16:15.54 | sashz | now it clean (: |
| 16:16.24 | rev|lib | alas |
| 16:16.29 | rev|lib | the snails demo doesn't work on my C760 |
| 16:16.41 | rev|lib | stinking sdl |
| 16:16.46 | TimRiker | Has anyone searched through the cd included with the 750/760 to see if there is a new version of the updater.sh somplace there? |
| 16:17.18 | sashz | i have cds, but there nothing for updater for C750, C760, |
| 16:17.32 | sashz | probably it same as for C700, |
| 16:17.37 | sashz | iwill try later.... |
| 16:17.41 | treke | rev|lib: what doesnt work? |
| 16:18.01 | rev|lib | the snails game demo |
| 16:18.02 | rev|lib | http://eongames.com/games/snails/ |
| 16:18.02 | rev|lib | it's like worms |
| 16:18.06 | rev|lib | but with snails :P |
| 16:18.09 | treke | rev|lib: What doesnt work about it? |
| 16:18.11 | rev|lib | used to use it on my J720 |
| 16:18.11 | rev|lib | well |
| 16:18.17 | rev|lib | it's made especially for the 5500 it seems |
| 16:18.19 | rev|lib | it uses sdl |
| 16:18.20 | treke | Neo doesnt use SDL for graphics iirc |
| 16:18.30 | rev|lib | and only writes to a 320x240 corner of the screen |
| 16:18.55 | rev|lib | and afaict, there's no way to interact with the menus even if i wanted to play it in little wittle mode |
| 16:18.58 | rev|lib | neo? |
| 16:20.19 | warmi | rev|lib: I think he just ported the existing PPC version |
| 16:20.36 | warmi | any limitations that were present in PPC version are present in Zaurus one as well |
| 16:20.49 | rev|lib | like the screen size i'm sure |
| 16:22.46 | *** join/#zaurus MacGyver (~MacGyver@218-174-199-108.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 16:22.59 | warmi | frankly, I never tried snails on anything else than PPC type device so 320x240 screen size seemed quite natural to me :-) |
| 16:23.24 | rev|lib | yeah |
| 16:25.16 | warmi | the game is actually quite interesting ( as far as PPC games go) |
| 16:26.35 | rev|lib | have you ever played games? |
| 16:26.39 | rev|lib | haha |
| 16:26.39 | rev|lib | er |
| 16:26.40 | rev|lib | i mean |
| 16:26.43 | rev|lib | have yo u ever played Worms? |
| 16:27.26 | warmi | yeah, I have |
| 16:27.41 | warmi | back in 1998 or so I think |
| 16:27.43 | rev|lib | yeah |
| 16:27.49 | rev|lib | this is totally a clone of Worms Armageddon |
| 16:27.53 | warmi | yeah, it is a clone |
| 16:27.55 | rev|lib | even down to the way things look stylewise |
| 16:27.59 | rev|lib | not that i mind |
| 16:28.00 | warmi | but well done clone :-) |
| 16:28.02 | rev|lib | i wouldn't be playing it on my Zo therwise |
| 16:28.03 | rev|lib | indeed |
| 16:28.04 | rev|lib | very |
| 16:28.36 | treke | snails is a fun game |
| 16:31.27 | prh | worms is ace |
| 16:31.39 | rev|lib | indeed |
| 16:31.48 | prh | far too addictive |
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| 16:56.55 | ronnocol | Does anyone know of a way to interact with the Sync process of the new 3.10 ROM? I'd like to add something to the things that get synchronized between the desktop and the Z |
| 16:57.19 | *** join/#zaurus bach (paolo@158-pool1.ras14.nynyc-t.alerondial.net) |
| 16:58.31 | George- | hey warmi |
| 16:59.16 | warmi | hi |
| 17:00.16 | George- | woot |
| 17:00.18 | George- | Shtoink: uptie: command not found |
| 17:00.21 | George- | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:00.25 | George- | yay! |
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| 17:19.08 | pedro | zap-zero: can you help-me? i need an e-mail of deutsche poste for reclamation of parcel. |
| 17:22.11 | *** part/#zaurus pedro (~pedro@22.Red-80-35-80.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
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| 19:14.41 | rev|desk | man |
| 19:14.49 | rev|desk | this is PIMP |
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| 19:38.14 | tunemx | rev|desk: i installed the tkc ROM |
| 19:38.25 | tunemx | after all my problems |
| 19:38.35 | tunemx | OZ was broken so I gave it a shot |
| 19:38.38 | tunemx | like it so far |
| 19:39.06 | kergoth | 'broken' |
| 19:40.45 | George- | tunemx: no, you mean totally fucking borked |
| 19:45.47 | rev|desk | oh? |
| 19:45.49 | rev|desk | how do you like it? |
| 19:45.50 | rev|desk | ah good |
| 19:47.21 | George- | ? |
| 19:47.35 | George- | OZ fucking rocks dude |
| 19:47.44 | George- | except for the maintainer.. he's a lazy fucking asshole :) |
| 19:49.02 | tunemx | :] |
| 19:49.10 | tunemx | well not OZ was broken |
| 19:49.18 | tunemx | i will probably flash it back |
| 19:49.19 | *** join/#zaurus rev|c760 (~zic@kplz14308.d.umn.edu) |
| 19:49.23 | rev|c760 | sup |
| 19:49.28 | tunemx | so far that's my favourite ROM |
| 19:49.29 | rev|c760 | ircing from c760 |
| 19:49.32 | tunemx | cool |
| 19:49.36 | tunemx | hello C760 |
| 19:50.00 | tunemx | pingizauri's VNC pkg broke OZ, so Opie could not start |
| 19:50.15 | tunemx | and I could not figure out the reason why |
| 19:50.21 | kergoth | dont use that. |
| 19:50.27 | kergoth | oz has vnc packages in its feeds |
| 19:50.27 | tunemx | too late |
| 19:50.28 | kergoth | use them |
| 19:50.31 | tunemx | but i learned the lesson |
| 19:50.36 | kergoth | *always* use the versions of things in the oz feeds |
| 19:50.40 | kergoth | unless you have a reason to do otherwise |
| 19:50.52 | tunemx | i will |
| 19:51.00 | George- | kergoth: hrmm, case of pebkac? |
| 19:51.30 | tunemx | but if something is not in the feed, I have to ignore it? |
| 19:51.42 | kergoth | no, if its not in the oz feeds, go ahead and obtain it elsewhere |
| 19:51.44 | kergoth | this isnt that complecated |
| 19:51.45 | tunemx | like "Cocktails" |
| 19:51.53 | kergoth | IF something is in the oz feeds, USE the version in the oz feeds. |
| 19:51.54 | kergoth | its that simple. |
| 19:52.01 | kergoth | and that was the case for vnc |
| 19:52.03 | tunemx | cocktails was not working though |
| 19:52.06 | George- | hrmm, I can *feel* kergoth's temper at the moment |
| 19:52.08 | George- | hahahahaha |
| 19:52.15 | pHluid | Quiet you. |
| 19:52.21 | kergoth | then it wasnt working for some other reason. probably a shitty package or something |
| 19:52.26 | kergoth | 90% of the ipks out there are absolute crap |
| 19:52.34 | tunemx | heheh |
| 19:52.34 | kergoth | thanks to trolltech encouraging the use of mkipks |
| 19:52.35 | tunemx | yeah |
| 19:52.39 | kergoth | which is worthless |
| 19:52.54 | George- | that's right, blame it all on trolltech! :) |
| 19:53.12 | *** join/#zaurus magnet (1001@modem-102.lion.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 19:53.14 | kergoth | well, whomever put together the sdk. sharp/lineo/tt |
| 19:53.20 | George- | none of the blame goes onto those morons at handhelds.org that made the shitty ipkg! :) |
| 19:53.35 | kergoth | ipkg sucks, but most people's ipks are worse |
| 19:54.13 | *** join/#zaurus ljp_laptop (~ljp@206.168.3.147) |
| 19:56.11 | pHluid | Why, what is wrong with ipkg? |
| 19:56.15 | pHluid | </sarcasm> |
| 19:56.18 | George- | it sucks. |
| 19:56.32 | pHluid | So do you, you're still here every damn day though. |
| 19:56.42 | kergoth | so's ipkg |
| 19:56.48 | pHluid | Exactly. |
| 19:56.49 | rev|desk | BOOOYA |
| 19:56.54 | kergoth | heheh |
| 19:57.31 | ljp_laptop | george just doesn tknow how to use ipkg |
| 19:57.33 | George- | pHluid: I am not here every day! :P |
| 19:57.51 | kergoth | george is ipkg! |
| 19:57.56 | George- | hrmm |
| 19:57.59 | ljp_laptop | hmmm |
| 19:58.27 | tunemx | kergoth: I posted a topic to the dev forum, and I would like to know your opinion: http://www.zaurus.com/dev/board/index.php?act=ST&f=28&t=4848&s=41af5a646edf084d9e70a62d971f2f7b |
| 19:58.50 | kergoth | okay, how the fuck does one force a hard reboot of a c750/760 |
| 19:58.52 | kergoth | anyone? |
| 19:59.01 | kergoth | the battery switch doesnt do a fucking thing, unlike the c700 |
| 19:59.04 | ljp_laptop | throw it out th ewindow |
| 19:59.51 | *** join/#zaurus blitzrage (~Leaves@CPE000795403a5f-CM.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:00.20 | cyn | kergoth i kinda wish the battey switch didn't do that |
| 20:00.37 | ljp_laptop | tunemx: that would take a patch to qte |
| 20:00.41 | cyn | some apps (like justreader) don't retain the spot where yer reading when you pop the battery to switch it because of the reboot |
| 20:00.45 | cyn | even if you close the app... |
| 20:03.17 | tunemx | ljp_laptop: is that a big deal to do? |
| 20:03.45 | ljp_laptop | kinda, ya |
| 20:04.03 | kergoth | rebooting this is a pain when you dont have a kernel that boots, and no reboot switch |
| 20:04.06 | ljp_laptop | perhaps I can mention this to Trolltech. |
| 20:04.17 | kergoth | pop battery, kill AC, pop battery in, hit key combo, put AC back in |
| 20:04.19 | kergoth | hehe |
| 20:04.51 | ljp_laptop | so make a kernel that boots so you can reboot it if it doesnt boot |
| 20:04.57 | kergoth | hmm |
| 20:05.01 | ljp_laptop | :D |
| 20:05.09 | ljp_laptop | today is silly day |
| 20:05.12 | kergoth | I just ripped the original kernel from the stock c750 mtd1 image, but it doesnt boot onto that either |
| 20:05.16 | kergoth | so Something Went Wrong |
| 20:05.21 | kergoth | </sharp annoying message> |
| 20:05.26 | kergoth | hmm |
| 20:05.41 | ljp_laptop | whats the flash procedure for c700? any docs on it? |
| 20:05.53 | kergoth | yeah, i have it in my mailbox or something |
| 20:06.01 | kergoth | and i think its up on spacetown somewhere |
| 20:06.11 | ljp_laptop | is it in engrish? |
| 20:07.19 | cyn | flash procedure is simple |
| 20:07.25 | cyn | throw the crap on sd or mmc or cf |
| 20:07.32 | cyn | power off, battery slider over |
| 20:07.41 | cyn | slide it back on, hold OK while powering on |
| 20:07.51 | cyn | then you get a menu |
| 20:07.59 | cyn | and here's where i forget if its 3 or 4 :) |
| 20:08.15 | cyn | and whichever it is takes you to an option for sd/mmc or cf |
| 20:08.24 | cyn | so - if you hit one and it doesn't - power back off and do the other |
| 20:08.32 | ljp_laptop | cool. thx |
| 20:08.42 | cyn | erm |
| 20:09.03 | kergoth | it has a confirmation |
| 20:09.07 | cyn | ok no worries then |
| 20:09.18 | kergoth | I love bvi |
| 20:09.25 | ljp_laptop | oh works from sd. nice |
| 20:09.55 | ljp_laptop | grrrr, my cat has been byting my laptop power cord |
| 20:10.18 | kergoth | fucking son of a bitch |
| 20:10.19 | kergoth | god i hate usb-storage |
| 20:10.35 | ljp_laptop | she likes biting cords. the first night I had her, she bit through my dsl line |
| 20:10.48 | ChipX86 | ugh |
| 20:12.58 | meshuga | wheres this full reset buttong? |
| 20:13.05 | meshuga | in the battery compartment? |
| 20:13.22 | ChipX86 | kergoth: I have the same problem :/ starting to get on my nerves as well |
| 20:13.27 | ChipX86 | meshuga: yeah |
| 20:13.35 | meshuga | i cant seem to find it |
| 20:13.39 | meshuga | is it labelled? whats it look like |
| 20:13.41 | meshuga | i got a 5500 |
| 20:13.51 | ljp_laptop | little bitty indent |
| 20:16.52 | kergoth | ChipX86: arent zombie mount processes fun? bleh. |
| 20:17.01 | ChipX86 | oh very. |
| 20:17.57 | ChipX86 | well if you're not busy later, I have a couple ipkgs for you to try. Looking for UI suggestions |
| 20:18.56 | ljp_laptop | I know what zombies are, cause I watch Scooby doo cartoons |
| 20:22.27 | tunemx | C760 uses the usb-storage modul? cool |
| 20:22.36 | kergoth | tunemx: eh? |
| 20:22.38 | kergoth | it does? |
| 20:22.47 | tunemx | you just mentioned you hate it |
| 20:23.09 | tunemx | so i guessed you can mount your unit as a storage via USB |
| 20:23.14 | kergoth | wrong guess |
| 20:23.20 | kergoth | thats me mounting my usb cf reader |
| 20:23.21 | kergoth | heh |
| 20:23.51 | tunemx | ah OK :) |
| 20:25.57 | ChipX86 | what card reader do you have, btw? |
| 20:26.08 | meshuga | how long does the 'reconfiguring all packages installed to root' typically take on a firsttime openzaurus install? |
| 20:26.10 | meshuga | nm |
| 20:26.14 | kergoth | sandisk sddr-31 |
| 20:26.37 | ljp_laptop | about 30 minutes.. it seems |
| 20:26.55 | meshuga | is OZ using x11 or still FB? |
| 20:27.25 | ljp_laptop | fb |
| 20:28.06 | meshuga | anyone installed x11 on there Z? |
| 20:28.13 | ChipX86 | kergoth: do you have any problems writing to CF cards? |
| 20:28.18 | *** join/#zaurus SirPsycho-home (~sirpsycho@adsl-65-71-56-72.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 20:28.48 | kergoth | ChipX86: heh, i've had the cp process hang trying to write fairly often as well, assuming i get the damn thing mounted at all |
| 20:28.56 | ChipX86 | mine's an SDDR-77. Dual memstick/CF. I can write to CF fine, md5sums are valid, etc, but when I go to unmount, corruption on what I've just written occurs |
| 20:29.06 | kergoth | odd. havent seen that behavior with this |
| 20:31.00 | meshuga | i use a pcmcia-isa adapter, then a pcmcia-cf adapter, then a 192meg CF |
| 20:31.04 | meshuga | and i unmount then yank |
| 20:31.14 | meshuga | works perfect. |
| 20:31.34 | ChipX86 | I've looked through the linux drivers, but I'm not seeing anything noticeable that would cause this. I know it doesn't happen in Windows :/ oh well. It works for reading, and the Zaurus works well enough for writing |
| 20:32.06 | meshuga | anyone know of a CF card that has a external antenna jack? |
| 20:32.08 | kergoth | greg kh takes a lot of flak for usb-storage, but apparently 90% of the products out there are crap, and they work closely with windows to make the driver deal with the crap |
| 20:32.12 | kergoth | which isnt the case for the linux drivers |
| 20:32.19 | kergoth | heh |
| 20:32.27 | ChipX86 | nod |
| 20:33.09 | kergoth | anyone know what the beginning of an arm zimage file is, offhand? |
| 20:33.10 | kergoth | hehe |
| 20:33.18 | ChipX86 | nope |
| 20:33.18 | kergoth | I want my file binary to recognize them, damnit |
| 20:34.02 | meshuga | how is thekompany.rom? |
| 20:34.19 | ChipX86 | imho, not bad for 1.0rc2 |
| 20:34.37 | meshuga | whats the preferred rom? |
| 20:34.46 | ljp_laptop | one thats works |
| 20:34.46 | meshuga | i just put OZ on it for shits and giggles |
| 20:34.51 | kergoth | preferred is an individual choice |
| 20:35.02 | kergoth | I prefer oz for obvious reasons |
| 20:35.04 | ljp_laptop | some may prefer sharps 1.02 |
| 20:35.38 | kergoth | hmm |
| 20:35.40 | kergoth | ibot: memory |
| 20:35.40 | | hmm... memory is Chips in a computer that remember data. Also commonly referred to as RAM. |
| 20:35.50 | kergoth | ibot: no, memory is <reply> The memory smacks of usage! |
| 20:35.51 | | okay, kergoth |
| 20:36.08 | ljp_laptop | I still have a 1.02 rom I believe |
| 20:36.22 | kergoth | i have way too much shit on my plate |
| 20:36.35 | ljp_laptop | yup. you do |
| 20:36.36 | kergoth | i need a pda that i use as a pda |
| 20:36.45 | tunemx | ibot: kergoth |
| 20:36.46 | | i guess kergoth is at kergoth@handhelds.org, or that openzaurus guy |
| 20:36.49 | ljp_laptop | get an ipaq |
| 20:37.04 | kergoth | ljp_laptop: thinking about it. either going to get an ipaq or an axim as my next device to play with |
| 20:37.08 | ChipX86 | I've just gone back to my Visor as a PIM |
| 20:37.11 | kergoth | but knowing me, i'll hack the hell out of it instead of using it |
| 20:37.16 | ChipX86 | haha |
| 20:37.36 | ljp_laptop | not to play! to use! |
| 20:37.40 | kergoth | maybe i should just use the damn pim apps in my cell phone |
| 20:37.43 | ljp_laptop | get something that cant possibly run linux |
| 20:37.46 | kergoth | they suck, but .. |
| 20:38.08 | kergoth | I really need a solid todo list, that puts the todo completion dates on the calander |
| 20:38.12 | kergoth | thats absolutely critical for me |
| 20:38.20 | kergoth | and integration with a web frontend to my todo would be optimal |
| 20:38.31 | ljp_laptop | vi cant do that!?! |
| 20:38.34 | kergoth | hehe |
| 20:38.38 | tunemx | then develop it :) |
| 20:38.41 | ljp_laptop | emacs can |
| 20:38.50 | kergoth | vi could, i'm pretty sure you can embed python in it |
| 20:38.52 | tunemx | seems like you won't get it otherwise |
| 20:38.54 | kergoth | but thats evil |
| 20:39.04 | kergoth | tunemx: oh yeah, thats *just* what i need. more shit on my todo list |
| 20:39.12 | kergoth | heheh |
| 20:39.24 | meshuga | i need ssh-common for ssh-server right? |
| 20:39.44 | kergoth | yep |
| 20:39.46 | tunemx | when's OZ 3.3 coming up? maybe you can integrate the new PIMs until then |
| 20:39.54 | ljp_laptop | I cant get the ts to workie |
| 20:40.00 | tunemx | so OZ would rule the ROM world :)) |
| 20:40.05 | kergoth | I *could* start on such a thing for post opie 1.0 |
| 20:40.10 | kergoth | but I've never been very good at PIM applications |
| 20:40.25 | kergoth | i'll leave that to others who know what they're doing |
| 20:40.26 | kergoth | heh |
| 20:40.30 | kergoth | ljp_laptop: still? w/ tslib or w/o? |
| 20:40.36 | ljp_laptop | both |
| 20:40.37 | kergoth | what device? |
| 20:40.40 | ljp_laptop | 5000d |
| 20:40.43 | ljp_laptop | heh |
| 20:40.46 | tunemx | but i heard the new OZ will use mysql for PIM apps |
| 20:40.49 | ljp_laptop | I'm a luser |
| 20:41.00 | tunemx | is that true? |
| 20:41.07 | kergoth | tunemx: no |
| 20:41.09 | ljp_laptop | and this time qtopia started out rotated for whatever reason |
| 20:41.18 | kergoth | tunemx: opie will end up using an sqlite pim backend someday.. |
| 20:41.26 | kergoth | ljp_laptop: weird. |
| 20:41.27 | tunemx | ok |
| 20:41.31 | tunemx | i see |
| 20:41.39 | kergoth | ljp_laptop: are you setting the qws display env var right? |
| 20:42.00 | ljp_laptop | it was working fine before.. heh. |
| 20:42.17 | kergoth | heh |
| 20:42.27 | *** join/#zaurus ronnocol (~lance@64.26.194.93) |
| 20:42.54 | ronnocol | Anybody know where to get docs on adding things the the list of items that get synchronized? |
| 20:43.04 | ljp_laptop | the apps run, though |
| 20:43.13 | kergoth | ljp_laptop: progress, eh? |
| 20:43.17 | ljp_laptop | yup |
| 20:43.22 | kergoth | cool cool |
| 20:43.24 | kergoth | getting there |
| 20:43.53 | ljp_laptop | ya, just a few tweaks I think. not sure about ts. I dont have a serial cable |
| 20:44.14 | pHluid | XML is fine for PIM |
| 20:44.14 | pHluid | SQL is overkill, bigtime, imho |
| 20:44.19 | kergoth | uhh |
| 20:44.23 | kergoth | xml sucks for pim in flash |
| 20:44.35 | kergoth | it results in a fuckload of flash writes due to having to move shit around in teh file to add things |
| 20:44.38 | ljp_laptop | and the timezones didnt get installed. ever try running citytime without any timezones? |
| 20:44.45 | kergoth | ljp_laptop: hah, no. whats it do? |
| 20:45.03 | ljp_laptop | a bunch of dialogs that it cant find timezones |
| 20:45.09 | kergoth | bunch? |
| 20:45.09 | ljp_laptop | one after the other |
| 20:45.11 | kergoth | hah |
| 20:45.20 | meshuga | can i have the openzaurus functionality in x11? |
| 20:45.29 | meshuga | or would i have to run fluxbox or something |
| 20:45.56 | ljp_laptop | yes |
| 20:46.08 | ljp_laptop | theoretically, opie runs in qt x11 |
| 20:46.17 | ljp_laptop | if you compile it right |
| 20:46.54 | meshuga | ah fuck, i forgot to grab opera before flashing to OZ |
| 20:47.15 | meshuga | hm, i dont trust my qt compiliation skills. :] |
| 20:47.27 | rev|desk | that sucks |
| 20:47.29 | rev|desk | CHUMP |
| 20:49.33 | kergoth | hrmm |
| 20:52.21 | meshuga | can i do usb networking under windows? |
| 20:52.54 | meshuga | so i can surf the net via the usb cable, under win? |
| 21:02.25 | *** join/#zaurus George- (~george@212.126.151.146) |
| 21:09.18 | rev|desk | yes |
| 21:09.21 | rev|desk | you can |
| 21:09.30 | rev|desk | i've seen it in a FAQ, and had it partially set up once |
| 21:09.31 | rev|desk | that is |
| 21:09.47 | rev|desk | the regular drivers for windoze just make the usb ->z an ethernet device |
| 21:09.58 | rev|desk | all you'd have to do it setup NAT/connection sharing on windows |
| 21:10.14 | rev|desk | on OS X that is incredibly easy, and i'm surfing via USB from my C760 as we speak |
| 21:10.19 | rev|desk | (and on irc too!) |
| 21:10.35 | rev|desk | and it only took like 2 clicks on the OS X side and a couple CLI lines on the Zaurus side |
| 21:10.54 | rev|desk | anyone know a good, very simple and free NAT app for windoze? |
| 21:10.59 | rev|desk | does windows have it built in? |
| 21:12.10 | levi | Windows Connection Sharing |
| 21:12.10 | George- | "good", "free" and "windows" in the same sentence?!??! |
| 21:12.25 | rev|desk | levi: is that in 98SE onwards? |
| 21:12.32 | levi | Or Internet Connection Sharing, or something like that. |
| 21:12.36 | rev|desk | mmhmm |
| 21:12.39 | kergoth | afaik it wasnt added till 2k |
| 21:12.46 | rev|desk | ah |
| 21:12.48 | levi | I'm not sure when it started. I had it in Win ME. |
| 21:12.56 | kergoth | i've used winproxy w/ transparent proxying with success |
| 21:15.44 | TheMasterMind1 | hrmm |
| 21:15.52 | tunemx | bye guys |
| 21:15.52 | TheMasterMind1 | reminds me of that socks proxy setup i was playing with earlier |
| 21:15.54 | TheMasterMind1 | worked quite well too |
| 21:22.38 | *** join/#zaurus ljp_laptop (~ljp@tq0223.peakpeak.com) |
| 21:23.56 | *** join/#zaurus br33zy (~br33zy@dt0f7n86.san.rr.com) |
| 21:25.17 | cyn | I highly recommend knoppix for a good free windows NAT app |
| 21:25.28 | George- | kergoth: what's transparent proxying? |
| 21:25.39 | George- | kergoth: is that so that all programs can use the proxy? |
| 21:25.40 | cyn | it's where the client has no indication it's proxied |
| 21:26.09 | George- | why the fuck don't all OSs have transparent proxying? |
| 21:26.27 | kergoth | knoppix rocks |
| 21:26.32 | cyn | why the fuck should an os have transparent proxying builtin |
| 21:26.32 | ChipX86 | yep |
| 21:26.49 | ljp_laptop | knoppix rox |
| 21:27.21 | oGMo | an OS shouldn't have anything much built in |
| 21:27.37 | oGMo | ljp_laptop: i want to use knoppix for game distribution :) |
| 21:28.37 | cyn | ya sure can at that |
| 21:28.44 | cyn | because knoppix what? knoppix rocks. |
| 21:29.22 | prh | kergoth: played with the 750 yet? |
| 21:29.32 | ljp_laptop | I am going to use knoppix for a opie/qtopia sdk |
| 21:29.35 | kergoth | prh: yeah, it doesnt boot anymore |
| 21:29.38 | kergoth | prh: hehe |
| 21:29.47 | prh | ahh.. |
| 21:29.54 | kergoth | working on it though |
| 21:29.56 | prh | kergoth: totally broke? |
| 21:29.59 | prh | oh ok |
| 21:30.10 | kergoth | well, i cant seem to even flash the original zimage that was in the c750's flash and have it boot |
| 21:30.14 | kergoth | so something weird is going on |
| 21:30.24 | kergoth | just not sure what |
| 21:30.31 | ljp_laptop | hmmmmm |
| 21:30.37 | ljp_laptop | you bricked it! |
| 21:30.40 | kergoth | and without serial, i'm pretty crippled |
| 21:30.42 | prh | kergoth: oops - so whose machine is it? :O) |
| 21:30.48 | kergoth | prh: not mine.. |
| 21:30.55 | kergoth | i'll get it to work eventually |
| 21:30.56 | kergoth | :) |
| 21:31.15 | prh | did someone not start porting the CRL bootloader to the zaurus? |
| 21:31.22 | kergoth | no one has started on such a thing |
| 21:31.28 | prh | ah |
| 21:31.46 | prh | how exactly does the boot process work on these Z's ? |
| 21:31.58 | prh | (I'm a DD, and familiar with ipaqs...) |
| 21:32.29 | TimRiker | ~zaurus feed |
| 21:32.36 | TimRiker | ~feeds |
| 21:32.37 | | well, feed is a package repository. See http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/IpkgFeeds, http://www.zauruszone.com/feed, http://openzaurus.org/official/{stable,testing,unstable}/feed, or http://www.zauruii.com/zfi |
| 21:32.51 | *** join/#zaurus alexw (~alex@82-36-196-85.cable.ubr01.sutt.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 21:33.33 | prh | bah still no downloads on the spacestation. When are sharp going to release the kernel and Rom?! |
| 21:35.01 | ljp_laptop | when they damn well feel like it |
| 21:35.09 | kergoth | bastards. |
| 21:36.50 | Neo|Work | seriously, isn't that really a breach of GPL? |
| 21:37.22 | prh | yea... |
| 21:37.53 | kergoth | has anyone formally requested the sources yet? |
| 21:37.56 | kergoth | i havent had time |
| 21:38.23 | ljp_laptop | cat /dev/time >> kergoth |
| 21:38.25 | TimRiker | ~no feeds is a package repository. See http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/IpkgFeeds, http://www.zauruszone.com/feed, http://openzaurus.org/official/{stable,testing,unstable}/feed, or http://www.zaurii.com/zfi |
| 21:38.26 | | okay, TimRiker |
| 21:38.51 | meshuga | http://www.zymurgy.net/zaurus.html |
| 21:38.59 | meshuga | so anyone done this powersupply hack? |
| 21:39.03 | meshuga | and vouch its reliability |
| 21:39.30 | kergoth | heh, i wonder if sash just disassembled the sharp /sbin/decsh binary in their initrd. thats what they use to decode it |
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| 21:40.46 | *** part/#zaurus sjborch (~knoppix@66.124.48.163) |
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| 21:59.06 | rev|desk | know of any good games for the Z? |
| 21:59.24 | kergoth | any of neo's are good.. puzz-le, opie-bounce, |
| 21:59.25 | kergoth | hmm |
| 21:59.37 | alexw | rev|desk: sfcave ! |
| 21:59.49 | warmi | knights if you are into chess |
| 22:00.12 | kergoth | sfcave is nice |
| 22:00.15 | kergoth | addictive |
| 22:00.20 | rev|desk | neo = eon games? |
| 22:00.34 | kergoth | yep |
| 22:00.40 | rev|desk | ah coo |
| 22:05.05 | *** join/#zaurus W8TVI (~W8TVI@1114111566.mi.dial.hexcom.net) |
| 22:05.41 | W8TVI | How do I make a backup of my curent rom? |
| 22:06.28 | W8TVI | I want to be able to go back to what I have now, incase I don't like OZ for some reason |
| 22:07.08 | *** join/#zaurus PorkySpine (~PorkySpin@213-205-70-181.nr.ip.pt) |
| 22:07.09 | *** join/#zaurus bflong (~bflong@00045ADBD3EC.msns.flt.ptd.net) |
| 22:07.13 | kergoth | uh, sharp roms are downloadable online |
| 22:08.46 | W8TVI | I don't want to download the da... stupid rom! I have a stinking dialup connection |
| 22:08.47 | rev|desk | heh |
| 22:08.56 | rev|desk | i don't know if they intended sfcave to be played on the C7x0 |
| 22:09.02 | rev|desk | it's a bit easy with the huge screen :) |
| 22:10.12 | W8TVI | I just got a 6-in-1 memory card reader for radio shack. $50 with a $20 mail0in reabate |
| 22:10.20 | *** join/#zaurus treke|wh1rever (~ggilbert@192.216.230.225) |
| 22:10.29 | W8TVI | Its the dazzle brand |
| 22:10.44 | W8TVI | Usb 2.0... but it works with usa 1.1 |
| 22:13.14 | W8TVI | 4mb of 14mb copied... 40mins left to go |
| 22:14.45 | W8TVI | I hope the grammer on the OZ rom is much beter |
| 22:15.30 | W8TVI | Wow... I just ran the backup on my Z (backup to Cf) and that was FAST! |
| 22:20.53 | treke|wh1rever | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:22.10 | meshuga | does hancom come w/ the sharp rom? |
| 22:22.46 | W8TVI | Not in the rom... |
| 22:23.00 | W8TVI | Its on the CD that comes with the Z |
| 22:25.53 | W8TVI | Some how I took a screenshot on my Z and I don't know how I did it... |
| 22:26.55 | W8TVI | 28mins left... |
| 22:31.46 | *** join/#zaurus paq_ (~paq@202.155.9.188) |
| 22:33.28 | meshuga | its not on my cd |
| 22:33.29 | meshuga | :[ |
| 22:33.33 | meshuga | supposed to be under apps right? |
| 22:33.55 | W8TVI | Holdo n |
| 22:35.10 | W8TVI | On the cd for the 3.10 rom CD its in the Applications dir |
| 22:35.19 | W8TVI | Hancommobileword_1.5.0_arm.ipk |
| 22:39.13 | *** join/#zaurus rev (~rev@24-197-180-73.dul.mn.charter.com) |
| 22:44.41 | prh | kergoth: any progress? |
| 22:45.29 | meshuga | W8TVI : i dont have that |
| 22:45.48 | meshuga | so, how can i get a 3.10 rom cd? |
| 22:46.24 | kergoth | prh: no |
| 22:46.28 | kergoth | prh: besides nearly bricking it.. |
| 22:46.33 | prh | woops |
| 22:46.37 | kergoth | if i reboot right now, i'm hosed. |
| 22:46.49 | prh | ahh. what you done to it? |
| 22:47.07 | kergoth | trying to write the damn zimage into the correct location in flash with sharp's nand tools |
| 22:47.13 | kergoth | for which we have no source |
| 22:47.21 | prh | bah |
| 22:47.26 | W8TVI | Dows anyone know anything about operacreator_1.6.5_arm.ipk? |
| 22:47.42 | prh | kergoth: well good luck - I'm off to bed. |
| 22:50.09 | W8TVI | I installed it an it looks like it put something in /home/zaurus/Documents |
| 22:50.21 | kergoth | yes, it makes an opera ipk |
| 22:50.25 | kergoth | copy it off of your z |
| 22:50.28 | W8TVI | Its opera only 1.5k? |
| 22:50.32 | kergoth | uh |
| 22:50.32 | meshuga | er hm |
| 22:50.36 | kergoth | you have to install operacreator into a sharp rom |
| 22:50.37 | kergoth | not oz |
| 22:50.46 | kergoth | then it creates an opera ipk for you to use when you do have oz |
| 22:50.57 | W8TVI | Is still using the sharp rom |
| 22:51.38 | W8TVI | 3.10 |
| 22:51.57 | kergoth | brb |
| 22:52.42 | W8TVI | So is the 1.5k one the right size? |
| 22:52.46 | Neo|Work | no |
| 22:52.55 | Neo|Work | 1.5 MB perhaps |
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| 23:29.07 | ljp_laptop | blimey! walk the plank! |
| 23:30.24 | W8TVI | Aar! |
| 23:31.27 | *** join/#zaurus nerdboy_ (~sarnold@arnolds.dhs.org) |
| 23:37.14 | kergoth | talk to you all monday, i'm outta here |
| 23:37.51 | ljp_laptop | l8r |
| 23:37.57 | kergoth | gah, no i'm not |
| 23:38.05 | kergoth | need to wait for this nanddump to complete |
| 23:38.11 | kergoth | and i cant cut the power to my c750 or it'll be bricked |
| 23:38.42 | ljp_laptop | brick schmick |
| 23:39.51 | ljp_laptop | think i'll steal this 2.4.18 kernel |
| 23:39.56 | kergoth | fuck |
| 23:40.03 | kergoth | i cant break the nanddump |
| 23:40.11 | kergoth | cause ctrl+c isnt mapped in console |
| 23:40.58 | ljp_laptop | what commands tells me what fs the kernel handles? |
| 23:41.26 | kergoth | cat /proc/filesystems |
| 23:41.35 | kergoth | that wont show you any filesystems that you have as modules |
| 23:41.42 | ljp_laptop | oh, heh I though there was a binary |
| 23:42.26 | *** join/#zaurus aldjiblah (~aldjiblah@216-73-109-110.ocdc-01.net) |
| 23:42.51 | kergoth | bbl |
| 23:43.30 | ljp_laptop | hmmm |
| 23:44.30 | aldjiblah | anyone got an impression of the kompany rom? |
| 23:47.53 | *** join/#zaurus br33zy (~br33zy@dt0f7n86.san.rr.com) |
| 23:53.21 | ljp_laptop | yes, I flashed it |
| 23:53.58 | ljp_laptop | dl'ing the app pack |
| 23:54.27 | ljp_laptop | there's lots of room to install stuff |
