| 00:00.24 | cleverdra | galv - curiously, what's your native language? |
| 00:01.15 | *** join/#zaurus SP-home (~sirpsycho@adsl-64-219-223-35.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:01.15 | *** join/#zaurus sig (~sig@24-119-4-77.cpe.cableone.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:01.15 | *** join/#zaurus flipdesk (~flip@ip68-2-120-183.ph.ph.cox.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:01.15 | *** join/#zaurus Taim (~taim@12-203-162-46.client.attbi.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:01.15 | *** join/#zaurus chrio|dead (~chrionix@CPE-144-136-128-242.qld.bigpond.net.au) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:01.23 | galvatr0n | english why? |
| 00:01.37 | cleverdra | galv - I'm sorry. |
| 00:02.05 | galvatr0n | thats cool just wondering why u ask |
| 00:03.25 | galvatr0n | i also have a problem with Z to XP network cause i have a 5600 and the network settings dont list USB network |
| 00:04.24 | galvatr0n | that is why i need arm so i can install opie-networksettings.ipk app its like the 5500 and 5000 network settings prog |
| 00:05.28 | oGMo | cleverdra: oh, for a second there i thought you had something ;) |
| 00:05.30 | galvatr0n | sorry i mean ar not arm |
| 00:05.44 | oGMo | i was like "oh, no wonder" |
| 00:06.49 | galvatr0n | i still cant find ar though and am not really to sure what to look for and where |
| 00:07.19 | cleverdra | galv - sorry, why do you think that you need ar to install opie-networksettings.ipk? |
| 00:08.14 | galvatr0n | cause im running qtopia so i need to extract the .ipk and then tar it again so i can install on qtopia |
| 00:08.57 | cleverdra | Oh, interesting. Did you ever check that 'debian-arm' thing I mentioned, way back? |
| 00:09.42 | galvatr0n | i dont know where to check cause ive only had my Z for 2days and im still doing a lot of research |
| 00:11.18 | galvatr0n | there also doesnt seem to be much info for the 5600 either and if there is its not official info which makes things difficult |
| 00:12.17 | cleverdra | galvatron - well, the Debian people over at debian.org have this thing thing called 'debian-arm', which is their port of the Debian GNU/Linux system to the ARM. I've heard that debian-arm software works on the Zaurus, and that OZ's ipkg at least will take .debs as they are. |
| 00:12.28 | *** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-44c14684.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:12.59 | cleverdra | galv - a well-designed Zaurus portal and all-around information-accumulating site would be useful, but nobody's made one, yet. |
| 00:13.01 | galvatr0n | cool thanks man ill take a look |
| 00:15.30 | *** join/#zaurus raster (~raster@203.206.217.82) |
| 00:15.34 | galvatr0n | only found ar.po |
| 00:16.00 | galvatr0n | can someone not just send it to me from a 5500 or 5000 |
| 00:18.10 | cleverdra | galv - here's a fish. What OS do you use to communicate to your Z? |
| 00:18.28 | galvatr0n | XP |
| 00:19.28 | galvatr0n | cant find ar on debian.org either |
| 00:21.02 | Neo|Work | subdue: yes, some of the missions are really hard - often you need to figure out the "one winning strategy" to finish it |
| 00:21.02 | galvatr0n | also just wondering if any1 has installed Sun cvm on zaurus or do any java dev on zaurus if so please pvt msg me!! |
| 00:21.16 | Neo|Work | I haven't had time to finish it all myself but I got pretty far in the standard mission set |
| 00:21.25 | cleverdra | http://w1.nirai.ne.jp/sinobu/cygwin.html seems like it might be helpful, galv. |
| 00:21.43 | cleverdra | galv - better yet, just ask your questions on the channel. |
| 00:23.02 | *** join/#zaurus SuKo|Shi (~sukoshi@dyn-213-36-209-94.ppp.tiscali.fr) |
| 00:24.43 | galvatr0n | please i really need to find ar for my 5600 but everywhere i look i have no luck someone please help! |
| 00:26.13 | cleverdra | galv - IIRC, you really wanted to repackage an ipk for your Z, and you even seemed to come up with the idea of doing the repackaging on something other than the Z. Why are you so rabid about this particular path, now? Also, I'm really gone. Gone. Got to go. |
| 00:29.18 | *** join/#zaurus PorkySpine (~PorkySpin@213.58.32.198) |
| 00:31.14 | galvatr0n | i just want opie-networksettings to work on my z5600 with qtopia |
| 00:31.22 | TheMasterMind1 | um |
| 00:31.23 | TheMasterMind1 | first of all |
| 00:31.28 | TheMasterMind1 | opie-networksettings won't work with qtopiaa |
| 00:31.31 | TheMasterMind1 | or the sharp rom |
| 00:31.45 | galvatr0n | really :( how come |
| 00:31.55 | TheMasterMind1 | second of all, in all the time you've spent whining, you could have either install linux or cygwin and gotten ar |
| 00:32.15 | *** join/#zaurus untorn (~chatzilla@6532160hfc103.tampabay.rr.com) |
| 00:32.27 | *** join/#zaurus aTypical (~aTypical@66-215-29-97.mpk-mres.charterpipeline.net) |
| 00:32.34 | aTypical | Hello all. How's it going. |
| 00:34.07 | zap-zero | TheMasterMind1: right... linux is just better for a linux pda |
| 00:34.34 | zap-zero | besides, winblows is really damn frickin' ugly bloatware that no one at all wants to use |
| 00:34.47 | zap-zero | AND spyware |
| 00:35.42 | zap-zero | so guys, fuck bill gates and do yourself something good, remove winblows XPerimental NOW |
| 00:36.01 | TheMasterMind1 | heh, right |
| 00:36.23 | zap-zero | before m$ fucks YOU with dmca... |
| 00:36.29 | aTypical | zap-zero: Yeah! And then run out and buy an Xbox and run Linux on it. Each one they sell they lose money. |
| 00:36.33 | zap-zero | s/dmca/tcpa/ |
| 00:36.38 | zap-zero | and stuff |
| 00:36.54 | zap-zero | yup, good idea |
| 00:37.10 | zap-zero | where's this distributed.net thingy that cracks the cheap 2048bit xbox rsa key? |
| 00:37.39 | TheMasterMind1 | www.distribuited.net maybe? |
| 00:37.47 | TheMasterMind1 | www.distributed.net |
| 00:37.54 | zap-zero | no, it wasn't really distributed.net |
| 00:37.57 | zap-zero | only something similar |
| 00:38.05 | TheMasterMind1 | oh right |
| 00:38.09 | TheMasterMind1 | search slashdot |
| 00:38.11 | TheMasterMind1 | it was on there once |
| 00:38.40 | zap-zero | i hope i get my dual opteron board soon to really have a good chance :) |
| 00:39.17 | *** join/#zaurus SuKoSh| (~sukoshi@dyn-213-36-175-16.ppp.tiscali.fr) |
| 00:40.23 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 00:40.34 | TheMasterMind1 | dualopteron would make a good oz development machine |
| 00:41.48 | zap-zero | yeah... i'm really looking forward to compiling kernels with that thing :) |
| 00:42.10 | subdue | Neo|Work: well, the last mission is the one that'll take as long as all the others combined. the key is the missles and walls |
| 00:50.51 | *** join/#zaurus warmi (~war@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 00:51.33 | mewyn | hey warmi |
| 01:07.42 | *** join/#zaurus wardriver (~tarpittz@ga-cmng-cuda1-c3b-67.atlaga.adelphia.net) |
| 01:08.03 | wardriver | i'm in command line out of opie and the function key seems stuck... whenever i hit m the = shows up! |
| 01:10.06 | wardriver | is this some kind of mode i can get out of? |
| 01:13.59 | doughecka | reboot it |
| 01:14.08 | doughecka | by flipping the battery switch |
| 01:18.52 | *** join/#zaurus ciaolinux (paolo@63-pool1.ras14.nynyc-t.alerondial.net) |
| 01:20.24 | *** join/#zaurus ljp_laptop (~ljp@tz0177.peakpeak.com) |
| 01:26.10 | *** part/#zaurus TeaX (~tx@ppp-105-173.27-151.libero.it) |
| 01:30.42 | *** join/#zaurus mrwoody (paolo@63-pool1.ras14.nynyc-t.alerondial.net) |
| 01:37.21 | *** join/#zaurus raster (~raster@203.206.217.82) |
| 01:39.07 | *** join/#zaurus oGMo (~rpav@208.187.9.96) |
| 01:40.31 | wardriver | tryin to /etc/init.d/opie start and get the message "you seem to already have a /root/applications dir assumming it is hte opie apps directory exity. starting opie..." but it never starts |
| 02:08.10 | *** join/#zaurus treke|home (~ggilbert@lsanca2-ar29-4-41-066-206.lsanca2.elnk.dsl.genuity.net) |
| 02:13.30 | *** join/#zaurus aTypical (~jriker@66-215-29-97.mpk-mres.charterpipeline.net) |
| 02:21.04 | *** join/#zaurus mewyn` (~mewyn@dsl081-227-089.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 02:30.26 | *** join/#zaurus mutexer (~spock@adsl-82-173-58.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 02:31.53 | aTypical | Is it possible to sync my Z with WinXP wirelessly? |
| 02:36.52 | *** join/#zaurus treke|home (~ggilbert@lsanca2-ar29-4-41-066-206.lsanca2.elnk.dsl.genuity.net) |
| 02:39.25 | *** join/#zaurus PorkySpine (~PorkySpin@0000000553-0000941735.dial.net4b.pt) |
| 02:49.31 | *** join/#zaurus cdm (~cdm@pcp01881145pcs.sandia01.nm.comcast.net) |
| 02:49.33 | cdm | evening. |
| 02:50.20 | wardriver | hi |
| 02:50.48 | wardriver | has anyone successfully mounted the sd card as the sole source of ram as indicated in faq 31? |
| 02:52.21 | *** join/#zaurus `Leaves (~Leaves@CPE0040f44a40c4-CM.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:53.15 | wardriver | http://openzaurus.sourceforge.net/oz_website/faq/faq?id=31 |
| 02:56.06 | *** join/#zaurus m_0f (~m0f73@vsat-148-63-111-199.c002.t7.mrt.starband.net) |
| 02:57.37 | treke|home | just install apps to the sd card |
| 02:58.47 | *** join/#zaurus ljp_laptop (~ljp@tq0170.peakpeak.com) |
| 03:00.14 | *** join/#zaurus porky_ (~PorkySpin@213.58.33.105) |
| 03:06.26 | wardriver | ya but if you have a heavy lib load it is a little difficult |
| 03:06.41 | wardriver | when i install libs to the sd, they don't seem to take effect unless i install them to root |
| 03:23.37 | *** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-44c14684.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 03:27.10 | *** join/#zaurus jumpkick_ (~chatzilla@CPE0080c6f1cc89-CM014500002511.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 03:28.12 | *** join/#zaurus CdtDelta (~CdtDelta@dsl081-225-161.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 03:31.02 | *** part/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-44c14684.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 03:31.06 | *** join/#zaurus mutexer (~spock@adsl-82-173-58.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 03:54.42 | *** join/#zaurus duplexer (~duplexer@220.94.77.89) |
| 03:58.16 | *** join/#zaurus Marsupilami23 (~Marsupila@152.139-60-66-nokia-static.surewest.net) |
| 04:00.19 | *** join/#zaurus mutexer (~spock@adsl-82-173-58.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 04:04.08 | *** join/#zaurus CodeYoddler (~CodeYoddl@12.242.131.241) |
| 04:04.15 | CodeYoddler | How do I compile Knights? |
| 04:22.56 | cleverdra | Code - well, two bits of essential information include: the platform on which you wish to compile Knights, and the language(s) in which Knights is written. |
| 04:24.44 | Neo|Work | Knights is a chess game for the Zaurus |
| 04:25.44 | cleverdra | I figured as much =) Does anyone know of a Chinese Chess game for the Zaurus? |
| 04:32.06 | Stryker | I can't believe that I've smbmounted my mp3 collection via WIFI on my Z and I'm listening to streaming music while playing tetrix.. |
| 04:33.02 | cleverdra | Stryker - how did you ever survive the days before this one? |
| 04:33.57 | Stryker | heh, well, I waited and waited for a linux port on the 565 and it's just not happening, so I'm glad that I sold it for this 5500. |
| 04:36.31 | Neo|Work | Stryker: I wouldn't believe it either - I mean tetrix is such a sucky game, why would you play it? ;-) |
| 04:37.24 | Neo|Work | http://eongames.com/tmp/shot12.png <-- not sucky tetris (in progress) |
| 04:43.25 | cleverdra | Stryker - the 565? |
| 04:44.08 | cdm | Stryker: enjoying your Z huh? |
| 04:45.52 | Stryker | one sec, on phone |
| 04:47.52 | cdm | god openssh is a pile of crap. ;) |
| 04:48.22 | cleverdra | cdm - how so? |
| 04:49.54 | cdm | cleverdra: have you looked at the code. |
| 04:52.01 | cleverdra | cdm - no. How is it a pile of crap? |
| 04:53.09 | cdm | cleverdra: the code is terrible. Scattered control flow, insane amounts of app-level I/O buffering. |
| 04:54.39 | cdm | cleverdra: It could really benifit from a re-write. |
| 04:54.49 | jumpkick_ | hrm... anyone had a problem with their buzzer not buzzing on OZ-testing? |
| 04:54.49 | cdm | or at least a major refactoring. |
| 05:06.45 | *** join/#zaurus treke|home (~ggilbert@lsanca2-ar29-4-41-066-206.lsanca2.elnk.dsl.genuity.net) |
| 05:07.10 | *** join/#zaurus omoore (~omoore@ip68-13-242-182.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 05:12.08 | Stryker | cleverdra: Jornada 565 |
| 05:12.40 | Stryker | cdm: Yeah, it's great. OZ flows better than I thought it would. |
| 05:15.49 | omoore | java + zaurus question... |
| 05:15.58 | omoore | everything works great... |
| 05:16.06 | cleverdra | omoore - thanks for warning us =) |
| 05:16.09 | omoore | love the way java apps look like any other app on the z but... |
| 05:16.11 | omoore | heh.. |
| 05:16.15 | omoore | i have one issue... |
| 05:16.26 | omoore | a text area is using a proportional font by default... |
| 05:16.49 | omoore | i set the font to a monospaced font in code, but it still uses proportional font on the textarea... |
| 05:16.52 | cleverdra | well, Kawa is an example of a Java system that fails the test. |
| 05:17.04 | omoore | anyone know if insignia jvm does not use native fonts? |
| 05:17.19 | omoore | cleverdra: insignia on zaurus is awsome |
| 05:18.10 | Stryker | Is it possible to get truetype fonts on OZ? |
| 05:18.24 | cleverdra | omoore - I've only used Jeode on the Zaurus. I'll look for insignia. Do you know anything about Intent? |
| 05:18.25 | treke|home | Stryker: yes, but not recommended |
| 05:19.00 | cleverdra | Stryker - I've run across pages that by their titles might describe how ttf can be converted to qpf, but I didn't look any closer. |
| 05:19.25 | Stryker | Hmm.. bummer. |
| 05:20.44 | *** join/#zaurus mithro (~tim@dsl1-83.gw1.adl1.airnet.com.au) |
| 05:23.39 | omoore | cleverdra: insignia is Jeode |
| 05:23.53 | omoore | insignia's Jeode JVM |
| 05:24.10 | omoore | cleverdra: it's the default jvm |
| 05:24.17 | omoore | cleverdra: that the zaurus comes with |
| 05:24.53 | cleverdra | ah. |
| 05:25.15 | chouimat|Zzzz | night |
| 05:35.27 | Stryker | Neo|Work: What was your feed again? |
| 05:38.12 | Stryker | crap: I'm going to have to reflash my original Sharp ROM so I can suck the Hancom app's out, then reflash with OZ? |
| 05:38.37 | cleverdra | Stryker - this is one of those "gee, I might've researched a bit before jumping in" things. |
| 05:38.52 | Stryker | cleverdra: yup, gotcha |
| 05:54.14 | cdm | why? It's a very nice language to code in. |
| 05:55.29 | *** join/#zaurus Shtoink (~Shtoink@12-206-125-200.client.attbi.com) |
| 05:55.47 | Shtoink | Hello everybody |
| 05:56.24 | Stryker | can qpe ipkg's be installed under OZ? |
| 05:56.40 | Shtoink | No idea? |
| 05:56.45 | cdm | hello Shdwdrgn |
| 05:56.47 | cdm | Shtoink: even. |
| 05:57.15 | Shtoink | I'm trying to find out some more info about OZ before I install it |
| 05:58.25 | Shtoink | I'm mainly nervous about screwing up my Z if I do something wrong |
| 05:59.05 | Shtoink | I don't like the possibility of killing it |
| 05:59.36 | cdm | you can't. |
| 05:59.46 | cdm | OZ isn't an OSPACK it is a zImage and initrd. |
| 05:59.58 | cdm | so the bootldr isn't touched. You can always get back to the Sharp ROM. |
| 06:00.06 | Shtoink | Hmm... |
| 06:00.13 | Shtoink | I adn't thought about i like that |
| 06:00.19 | Shtoink | hadn't* |
| 06:00.22 | cdm | that is how I do my QNX images as well. |
| 06:01.09 | Shtoink | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:01.13 | Shtoink | That's cool |
| 06:01.43 | cdm | yeah - checkout my Photon screenshot. http://qnx.wox.org/qnx/screenshots/zaurus/ |
| 06:05.32 | Shtoink | Damn |
| 06:05.51 | Stryker | cdm: Is everything fully functional now? |
| 06:05.57 | Shtoink | They could have made an easier key combo than c and d |
| 06:06.23 | Shtoink | That's a pin in the butt to get those 2 heys and the full reset at the same time |
| 06:06.56 | Shtoink | pin = = pain |
| 06:09.15 | cdm | Shtoink: you think? I can do it with one finger. |
| 06:09.36 | cdm | Stryker: no, not yet. Work and life has been to busy. Still working on the touch screen. |
| 06:10.03 | Shtoink | Maybe my fingers are just too big |
| 06:11.03 | Shtoink | Maybe I'm not understanding the numbering scheme of OZ.... |
| 06:11.28 | cdm | oGMo: so why death to java? ;) |
| 06:12.03 | Shtoink | But why is the 3.2 stable but the 3.1-rc3..... ? |
| 06:12.43 | cdm | Shtoink: Linux kernel numbering schemes. odd for dev, even for release. |
| 06:13.04 | Shtoink | Ahh... |
| 06:13.10 | Shtoink | That's good to know |
| 06:13.31 | Shtoink | Hmm... the theory is that after the flash, something should load, right? |
| 06:13.33 | Shtoink | hehehe |
| 06:13.39 | Shtoink | I might need to get the files again |
| 06:14.11 | cdm | you named it initrd and not initrd.bin right? or whatever it says to do? |
| 06:14.11 | *** join/#zaurus Bala (~Bala@hsdbsk142-165-147-250.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 06:15.35 | Shtoink | Crap! |
| 06:15.43 | Shtoink | I didn't catch that part |
| 06:16.25 | Shtoink | I thought it just said to rename it with the extensions in place |
| 06:16.30 | Shtoink | DoH |
| 06:18.37 | cdm | They call it .bin so it downloads as binary with IE/Netscape. |
| 06:18.47 | cleverdra | shtoink - It tells you to be sure that it's 'initrd.bin'. Try flashing again, this time following the instructions. |
| 06:18.48 | cdm | if they just call it initrd it will do stupid ASCII downloads. |
| 06:19.06 | cleverdra | shtoink - really, I bet that the 'follow the instructions' part is what foiled your flash. |
| 06:20.05 | Shtoink | With a heaping helping of egg on my face... |
| 06:20.09 | Shtoink | I have to agree |
| 06:20.36 | cleverdra | also, cdm, your description of Linux kernel numbering schemes is correct, but the dev versions in the Linux kernel are still greater in numerical value than stable versions. The 3.2stable/3.1-rc3 case is particularly obvious as the date of the latter is earlier than the date of the former on the downloads page. |
| 06:21.06 | cleverdra | Shtoink - oh, did it work this time? Congratulations! |
| 06:21.16 | Shtoink | I was just currious about it was all |
| 06:21.39 | Shtoink | It seemed odd the the dev was an older build than the stable |
| 06:25.51 | oGMo | cdm, let's just say after spending the past week or two working with some students on a rather large java project... |
| 06:25.54 | oGMo | ;) |
| 06:26.39 | *** join/#zaurus darmou (~darmou@dyn40.mel1.homedsl.pacific.net.au) |
| 06:26.49 | oGMo | i've been working on a major project in ruby lately |
| 06:26.59 | oGMo | and by comparison, java's OO is just laughable |
| 06:27.27 | oGMo | but anyway, bbiab |
| 06:28.25 | cleverdra | Many aspects of Java are laughable when compared to their corresponding presence in languages designed with more thought to them. |
| 06:28.56 | darmou | Its interesting I have been learing objective C and i seems that both objective c and ruby both modeled oo on smalltalk. |
| 06:29.03 | cleverdra | Ask an Erlang hacker about Java's concurrency, for instance. |
| 06:29.04 | cdm | oGMo: I work almost daily on one of the largest open-source java projects in the world. Dunno, seems pretty damn good to me. |
| 06:29.41 | darmou | Although unlike smalltalk objective c has primitve types like java with wrapper obejets NSNumber |
| 06:29.45 | oGMo | cdm, well, it's not |
| 06:29.55 | oGMo | cleverdra: quite |
| 06:30.05 | cdm | cleverdra: Sure. However, languages that no one uses anymore (smalltalk for example) aren't really important anymore. It's too bad smalltalk arrived when it did - too little computing power to make it viable. |
| 06:30.11 | oGMo | i mean, when i was a kid, GW-BASIC was the greatest thing |
| 06:30.16 | oGMo | but that doesn't mean it didn't suck |
| 06:30.44 | cleverdra | cdm - I'm not at all familiar with smalltalk. Also, please don't play that game. |
| 06:30.47 | oGMo | cdm, actually people use smalltalk quite a bit, and ruby and objc---both largely smalltalk derivatives---are used even more |
| 06:30.49 | cdm | oGMo: Lots of things suck in many ways. Java isn't perfect. |
| 06:31.09 | cdm | oGMo: relative to Java, C++, C and C#. No, they don't. |
| 06:31.14 | oGMo | java is about as imperfect in every aspect as it could get without being a joke language ;) |
| 06:31.38 | oGMo | cdm: lots more people use windows than linux, too, that doesn't mean it doesn't suck ;P |
| 06:31.47 | darmou | No language is perfect they are all tools in the toolbox u use the one best suited for the application. |
| 06:31.51 | oGMo | popularity is proof of little |
| 06:32.02 | cdm | oGMo: the NT kernel doesn't suck actually. It's quite well designed. |
| 06:32.12 | oGMo | cdm, no, actually, it does suck |
| 06:32.40 | cdm | oGMo: okie dokie. |
| 06:32.43 | oGMo | for instance, when createprocess takes a window title, you know you have something designed by highschool dropouts ;) |
| 06:32.47 | Shtoink | Yeah |
| 06:32.57 | Shtoink | I don't feel so incedibly stupid now |
| 06:33.04 | darmou | how does C# compare with objc I wonder |
| 06:33.07 | cleverdra | sigh. I personally choose languages by what I can do in them, how easily I can express what I want to do them, and whether or not their implementations fit my more practical needs. |
| 06:33.13 | Shtoink | I did manage to make the flash work |
| 06:33.25 | cdm | oGMo: CreateProcess is not an NT API, it is a Win32 API. |
| 06:33.32 | Shtoink | I rad the instructions a bit closer and it did need to be initrd.bin |
| 06:33.36 | oGMo | darmou: i'm not terribly familiar with C#, but what little i did see didn't seem particularly special... like a modified java |
| 06:33.42 | cleverdra | Java's concurrency sucks. Java's OO sucks. Java still might be a nice language for GUI work on the Z, which is why I'm still thinking of almost looking into it, still. |
| 06:33.51 | cdm | oGMo: perhaps you should learn a little about what is NT and what is Win32. That is like saying Hurd sucks because the BSD subsystem does soemthing a particular way. |
| 06:33.54 | oGMo | cdm: win32 is the OS API |
| 06:34.01 | cdm | oGMo: no it is not. |
| 06:34.15 | cdm | The NT kernel has it's own API that the subsystems use. |
| 06:34.19 | cdm | and Win32 is simply a subsystem. |
| 06:34.23 | cdm | just like Mach. |
| 06:34.28 | oGMo | ... |
| 06:34.35 | Shtoink | Thanks for the help guys, I know there is currently an argument about programming languags going on... |
| 06:34.41 | cdm | but anyways. |
| 06:34.48 | oGMo | exactly unlike mach, in fact, but otherwise---yes |
| 06:34.48 | oGMo | ;) |
| 06:34.50 | cdm | I agree that popularity isn't the best measure of all things. |
| 06:35.08 | oGMo | Shtoink: got a relavent issue? go for it ;) |
| 06:35.23 | Shtoink | SGis aren't very popular... |
| 06:35.27 | Shtoink | They kick ass |
| 06:35.33 | cdm | but the only two things I have really every been bothered by (besides some class lib irregularities) are actually being addressed with those JCR things. |
| 06:35.39 | Shtoink | Completely off subject, sorry |
| 06:35.49 | oGMo | cleverdra: java the _language_ sucks.... go whip out some C++ and Qt (or something else that has Qt bindings), and you'll be way happier ;) |
| 06:36.05 | cdm | the continuous casting of the container classes and the fact that native types aren't treated as objects. |
| 06:36.11 | oGMo | Shtoink: not like we're on topic at the moment... or like it matters much ;) |
| 06:36.11 | cleverdra | ogmo - the example of fork/createprocess (or whatever the latter is) is nice, and satisfying, but please don't use it in lieu of real knowledge of Win32 programming. I don't deal much with Windows because I prefer Linux's design and culture. Isn't that enough? |
| 06:36.17 | Shtoink | oGMo: I was just saying thanks for the help even though everyone else was arguing |
| 06:36.28 | cleverdra | ogmo - gaah, I'd rather program in Java than C++. |
| 06:36.58 | oGMo | cleverdra: i'd rather use neither... there are other things that have Qt/E bindings |
| 06:39.02 | cleverdra | Yeah, Python's another possibility for GUI on the Z. |
| 06:39.02 | oGMo | cdm, the language is just terrible. Inconsistencies all over the place. Silly restrictions. Inelegance. And an OO language has no business being statically-typed. The standard library sucks... the base classes are weak and have little functionality. Non-Object data types... nuff said. |
| 06:40.05 | cdm | well, the last is gone with 1.5. Silly restrictions like what? |
| 06:40.44 | oGMo | tying C and Java sucks, the API for higher-level stuff sucks... mostly because of the lower-level stuff... it's slow, portability is a joke, and they just keep slapping on hacks to fix earlier problems (see 1.5) |
| 06:41.12 | oGMo | cdm, no, they're still there, they jsut get more magic to handle them. |
| 06:41.37 | oGMo | when you find yourself adding magic to a language to handle an issue, you've got a problem with your language |
| 06:41.39 | cleverdra | ogmo - I get the feeling that you're mostly sharing your uninformed prejudices now. Just a feeling; please don't be offended if this isn't so. |
| 06:41.40 | cdm | oGMo: yes, of course they are still there. Just they they are properly promoted as needed. I see no problem with that being a solution. |
| 06:41.52 | oGMo | cleverdra, you would be wrong |
| 06:41.54 | cdm | oGMo: that is no different then dynamic typing of objects. |
| 06:42.07 | oGMo | erm |
| 06:42.08 | cdm | oGMo: what about JNI don't you like? |
| 06:42.15 | cleverdra | ogmo - you want "you are wrong", then =) |
| 06:42.24 | oGMo | cdm, this has absolutely nothing to do with dynamic typing ;) |
| 06:42.52 | cdm | in terms of portability, I can't agree there either. I have written an enormous amount of code for Eclipse and it has worked just fine on all the platforms eclipse supports. |
| 06:43.24 | cdm | and the VM isn't slow, not so much as the default UI kit is slow. |
| 06:43.31 | cleverdra | Netscape houses a decently portable JVM, I think. |
| 06:43.36 | oGMo | i can write code in C that runs on Linux and have it run on just about anything with a MMU, and many things without... java doesn't really compare there |
| 06:44.03 | cleverdra | cdm - ah, is that the problem? I still have nightmares about a few Java GUI programs I tried under a 16M P133. |
| 06:44.11 | cdm | oGMo: umm...not without rebuilding? |
| 06:44.24 | cdm | cleverdra: well, at that time the jvm was probably slow too. ;) |
| 06:44.27 | oGMo | oh yeah, that doesn't even touch the memory-intensiveness of the VM, but I will exclude VM problems under the theoretical possibility that someone could, in fact, implement a java vm that isn't a dog (i'm fairly certain a number have been done) |
| 06:44.32 | cleverdra | cdm - well, it was kaffe =) |
| 06:44.34 | oGMo | cdm, rebuilding is irrelevant |
| 06:44.46 | oGMo | the fallacy of java... that binary portability is what matters |
| 06:45.05 | cleverdra | ogmo - not so much a fallacy as a consequence of having a virtual machine. |
| 06:45.24 | cdm | oGMo: okay. still, waiting for what is wrong with JNI? |
| 06:45.55 | oGMo | cdm, JNI is hell... not perhaps the hell that Perl XS or PHP's interface is, but it's still an utter pain in the ass |
| 06:46.33 | oGMo | compare it to, say, Ruby, which is trivial, or various FFC interfaces which just need a little description and can make native calls on a standalone basis |
| 06:47.15 | *** join/#zaurus Tom_D (~Tom_D@adsl-68-75-180-80.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) |
| 06:47.22 | oGMo | java's lack of touch with the native OS is also a problem, although that theoretically wouldn't be given a Java OS (hah) |
| 06:47.26 | cdm | I've not done C calls with Ruby yet. Plan on learning about it when I integrate it into killerIRC. |
| 06:47.43 | cleverdra | ogmo - there are a few Java OSes, I think. |
| 06:47.45 | cdm | oGMo: lack of touch? Explain? |
| 06:47.57 | cleverdra | ogmo - for cellphones, and a PDA that's coming this year. |
| 06:48.00 | oGMo | cdm: you can't do simple things, like say, chdir |
| 06:48.19 | oGMo | or you couldn't as of the 1.3 API, 1.4 hasn't seemed to change much |
| 06:48.51 | cleverdra | ogmo - well, that's one of the first things I noted about Java: it has a bit of unix-alienness. |
| 06:49.29 | oGMo | it's all the nasty little things that make it bad, though... the lack of this or that little thing, that all adds up |
| 06:49.42 | oGMo | like, no default parameters? give me a break |
| 06:50.00 | oGMo | cleverdra: yeah |
| 06:50.03 | Shtoink | Dang |
| 06:50.07 | cdm | oGMo: Yes, that is one area I will agree with you with Java. The I/O libs are nasty, but now on thier 3rd attempt it looks like it might be better. (but I have not read much about nio since I mostly work with a J2ME jvm). |
| 06:50.09 | *** join/#zaurus gabrielll (~aliissawi@213.55.67.235) |
| 06:50.14 | Shtoink | It seems that my CF NIC is unsupported |
| 06:50.14 | oGMo | the problem is it shoots for many things, and misses them all |
| 06:50.18 | gabrielll | hi |
| 06:50.29 | cleverdra | ogmo - I think the argument you're really looking for is this: "Java is less like Lisp than some other languages which are more unixy and require less typing." |
| 06:50.32 | oGMo | cdm, IO is a different thing all together |
| 06:50.42 | Shtoink | Sup gabriell |
| 06:50.52 | Shtoink | Sup sonix* |
| 06:50.54 | oGMo | cleverdra: funny, i've been contemplating comparing it to lisp ;) |
| 06:50.56 | sonix` | :) |
| 06:51.02 | sonix` | new faces here |
| 06:51.05 | oGMo | so now that you mention it, i will |
| 06:51.10 | sonix` | i'm in Ethiopia right now |
| 06:51.13 | sonix` | on transit |
| 06:51.32 | cdm | oGMo: I don't think so....they have tried to abstract away the notion of disk/filesystem/network into Streams and due to that gave up concepts like chdir() (to me it seems on principal). |
| 06:51.43 | cleverdra | ogmo - there are a number of 'poles' in the programming-language world, and Lisp is an important one. |
| 06:52.20 | oGMo | take everything that Java is supposed to be (but isn't) and then look at ANSI Common Lisp with CLOS, MOP, and CLIM, and you'll find that Java was designed by people who obviously needed to do more than add their pet features to C++ |
| 06:52.33 | oGMo | cleverdra: lisp is the top of the pyramid |
| 06:52.42 | cleverdra | ogmo - I don't follow you. |
| 06:52.43 | Shtoink | Is there HCL that i can double check for my CF NIC? |
| 06:53.01 | cleverdra | Shtoink - hm, none that I know of, sorry. |
| 06:53.19 | oGMo | cleverdra: i'm not sure your level of familiarity with lisp |
| 06:53.25 | Shtoink | POOP |
| 06:53.43 | cleverdra | Shtoink - knightfire.xxx has a list of SD/CF cards and their usability. You might check there. |
| 06:53.58 | cleverdra | ogmo - assume that I know as much as you do. |
| 06:54.00 | Shtoink | You'd think that the majority of the 3COM nics would be supported, right? |
| 06:54.09 | oGMo | cleverdra: then i shouldn't need to tell you anything ;) |
| 06:54.27 | cleverdra | ogmo - about Lisp, not your conceptions of its relationships to other languages =) |
| 06:55.12 | Shtoink | cleverdra: check where? I'm trying to sound stupid.... |
| 06:55.35 | cleverdra | Shtoink - knightfire.xxx |
| 06:55.47 | oGMo | cleverdra: if you know lisp, you should realize that it's the ultimate standard from which other things should be judged, because it can do everything any other given language can, and can be extended in any manner |
| 06:56.47 | oGMo | the language itself can be extended, so you can just add stuff to it via a package |
| 06:57.16 | cleverdra | ogmo - that's not quite how I see it, but OK. 'Pyramid' still confuses me. |
| 06:57.53 | oGMo | cleverdra: lisp is at the top, everything else is somewhere down the food chain, in terms of elegance and features. that's not to say it'll always be that way, but that's how it currently stands. |
| 06:58.24 | cleverdra | ogmo - a curious picture. I don't like it, for some purely personal reason. |
| 06:58.28 | oGMo | mostly because while other languages focus on this concept or that concept, lisp works via a few simple principles, which let you add anything to it |
| 06:59.38 | Shtoink | cleverdra: hmm... thank god for google, I founf it here... http://enrage.dhs.org/~knight/ |
| 07:00.02 | cleverdra | As to the poles I mentioned, others might be APL, Prolog, Forth, and Erlang. The latter's inclusion might require some explaining. |
| 07:00.11 | oGMo | eh. |
| 07:00.56 | oGMo | if you want to go that route, there are three basic languages... smalltalk, lisp, and algol; everything else is derivative (and lisp is all-encompassing, but for the moment we'll use it as the parent of stack/list languages) |
| 07:01.14 | cleverdra | ogmo - that's not the route I'm going. |
| 07:02.14 | cleverdra | Actually, 'Haskell' should also be on that list. |
| 07:02.28 | oGMo | yeah |
| 07:02.31 | oGMo | that's what i was looking for |
| 07:02.48 | oGMo | throw in odd stuff like haskell, but that falls under the side category of "odd languages" |
| 07:03.04 | cleverdra | ogmo - it's interesting to view the world as descending from a small set of primary languages, but only for a few seconds =) |
| 07:03.42 | oGMo | apl, forth, and prolog are all stackish |
| 07:04.16 | cleverdra | ogmo - are you familiar with any of those languages? |
| 07:04.49 | oGMo | actually prolog isn't, is it |
| 07:05.09 | oGMo | cleverdra: mostly APL (which is like, array-based), and Forth (which is stack-based) |
| 07:06.05 | oGMo | it's just when it comes down to it, either you're doing set-processing, function-calling, or oop |
| 07:06.16 | cleverdra | sigh, OK. I've come to realize that I can't really explain what I'm talking about just yet (which isn't, hint: a game of analyzing a beautiful language into a single note), so I'll stop talking about it so much. |
| 07:07.07 | oGMo | cleverdra: if you can't explain it, you don't know it ;) but my guess is, you just haven't thought it through enough |
| 07:07.21 | oGMo | i used to be a huge fan of computer languages |
| 07:07.56 | cleverdra | ogmo - it's not something I've really had to think through, frankly. |
| 07:07.59 | oGMo | i've come to find they're not really all that important when it comes down to it, they're merely an expression of meaning, and the meaning is what's important |
| 07:08.39 | oGMo | cleverdra: well, if you have a slow afternoon sometime, sit back and ponder it ;) |
| 07:08.46 | cleverdra | ogmo - ha ha ha. |
| 07:09.03 | cleverdra | ogmo - I'll get back to you in a few years. |
| 07:09.48 | oGMo | something like Tcl might belong on that list, but that's just wrong... but text expansion is another language form, in any case |
| 07:09.55 | cleverdra | ogmo - on the contrary, I think that programming languages are as important to programming as spoken languages are to thinking. |
| 07:09.56 | oGMo | cleverdra: heh |
| 07:10.15 | cleverdra | ogmo - you continue to misunderstand me, but you seem to enjoy your own understandings. Have fun =) |
| 07:10.37 | oGMo | cleverdra, if you'd explain what you mean, we could go from there ;) |
| 07:10.43 | cleverdra | ogmo - the stuff your talking about might analogize better to mathematics =) |
| 07:11.05 | Shtoink | BRB |
| 07:11.20 | oGMo | cleverdra: actually, with programming, it's possible to transcend programming languages altogether |
| 07:11.34 | *** part/#zaurus Shtoink (~Shtoink@12-206-125-200.client.attbi.com) |
| 07:12.08 | oGMo | i'm not familiar enough with psychology and natural language to know if it would work for thought |
| 07:12.13 | cleverdra | ogmo - I think I follow you, and I have a retort for how I follow you, but I think that you should be more clear so that my retort doesn't look silly. |
| 07:13.09 | oGMo | cleverdra: well, it goes like this... take a pure object system, where you've got objects, and you can call their methods, much like any object system |
| 07:13.56 | oGMo | now, given an object that carries a list of objects, methods to call, and arguments to pass to each call, you've simulated a function block |
| 07:14.12 | cleverdra | ogmo - oh, you're talking about object brokers? CORBA, Windows COM programming? |
| 07:14.31 | oGMo | you can simply bootstrap the process from there, because that can be compiled, and you no longer need to represent the actual program with any given language |
| 07:14.41 | oGMo | cleverdra: no, definitely not |
| 07:14.56 | oGMo | cleverdra: think of a more smalltalkish system |
| 07:15.34 | cleverdra | ogmo - I more at home with an Erlangish system, but OK =) |
| 07:15.38 | oGMo | this is part of the "unity concept", unity being a project, theory, and design philosophy of mine |
| 07:16.37 | oGMo | (object brokering isnt' really OOP, and it's just a heavyweight pseudo-object remote function call protocol ;) |
| 07:16.49 | oGMo | cleverdra: hrm |
| 07:16.54 | oGMo | i'm not familiar with erlang, hang on |
| 07:17.23 | oGMo | hmm, interesting |
| 07:20.13 | cleverdra | ogmo - maybe this will make sense. You have a view of reality, of the possibilies of programming. You can look at reality as it, with no blinders -- and program by manually flipping bits, I suppose =) or you can look at it through various and sundry (and nestable) lenses, that make certain colors and objects more visible and thus, more easily dealt with directly. |
| 07:21.33 | oGMo | hrm, erlang just looks like a dynamic, functional, compiled language |
| 07:21.37 | cleverdra | ogmo - what you've just described, a world of objects and methods and inter-object communication, is a very popular way of looking at the world. Your 'unity' concept might be an attempt to remove a few language-related lenses, to see the OOP part more fully. |
| 07:22.20 | *** join/#zaurus omoore (~omoore@ip68-13-242-182.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 07:22.22 | cleverdra | ogmo - a series of nearly meaningless terms, so far as they relate to what I'm trying to say right now or to the desires of anyone wanting to know a little about Erlang. |
| 07:22.25 | oGMo | cleverdra: unity is mostly about unifying what developers write with what users use |
| 07:22.28 | zap-zero | you guys are sick... |
| 07:22.51 | oGMo | it just happens to give you all these neat things |
| 07:23.26 | oGMo | cleverdra: i'm not sure _what_ you're trying to say right now ;) |
| 07:23.36 | cleverdra | ogmo - have you followed me at all? |
| 07:24.01 | oGMo | cleverdra: yes |
| 07:25.00 | *** join/#zaurus zoid (zoid@nr9-216-68-182-95.fuse.net) |
| 07:25.55 | cleverdra | OK. What interests me about the languages I listed is less their buzzwords than their particular use as lenses -- but I've just stopped following myself. Sorry. |
| 07:26.46 | oGMo | ... heh |
| 07:28.01 | zap-zero | if languages are lenses, what's asm then? |
| 07:28.15 | cleverdra | If you've any questions about Erlang, feel free. |
| 07:28.30 | cleverdra | zap - harsh. |
| 07:28.53 | zap-zero | ? |
| 07:28.55 | oGMo | zap-zero: a really effing powerful telescope with which you can't see anything from less than 2 nanometers |
| 07:28.58 | oGMo | ;) |
| 07:29.07 | zap-zero | bah |
| 08:07.46 | cleverdra | hm, the 3.1 Sharp ROM looks nifty. |
| 08:18.12 | *** join/#zaurus doughecka (WOZNIAK@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 08:42.14 | *** join/#zaurus anselor (~anselor@66-215-19-244.az-mres.charterpipeline.net) |
| 09:00.16 | *** join/#zaurus sharpie (~sharpie@12-240-5-171.client.attbi.com) |
| 09:57.18 | *** join/#zaurus doughecka (WOZNIAK@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:57.18 | *** join/#zaurus mithro (~tim@dsl1-83.gw1.adl1.airnet.com.au) |
| 09:57.18 | *** join/#zaurus CdtDelta (~CdtDelta@dsl081-225-161.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:57.18 | *** join/#zaurus Novas007 (~Bond@adsl-64-161-201-147.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:57.18 | *** join/#zaurus mspencer[away] (spam@michael.mspencer.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:57.18 | *** join/#zaurus djr|z (chq@c-24-126-104-15.we.client2.attbi.com) |
| 09:57.18 | *** join/#zaurus KhensU (randy@bsj342e2y7a9.bc.hsia.telus.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:57.18 | *** join/#zaurus tux_mike (~mike@dsl081-228-056.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 09:57.18 | *** join/#zaurus nessie (~nessie@swamp.nerdfest.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:57.18 | *** join/#zaurus Xystance (lightnin@bawx.scriptkitchen.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:57.18 | *** join/#zaurus oob (~oob@203-114-157-29-dsl.inspire.net.nz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:57.18 | *** join/#zaurus levi (~levi@208.177.141.226) |
| 09:57.19 | *** join/#zaurus bwestlin (~bwestlin@dialup-25.exicom.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:57.19 | *** join/#zaurus uncon (~uncon@crtntx1-ar3-4-62-094-019.crtntx1.dsl-verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:57.19 | *** join/#zaurus zap-zero (andi@2001:768:18ff:17:0:0:0:0) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:57.19 | *** join/#zaurus Sugar (~neotron@207.188.30.40) |
| 09:57.19 | *** join/#zaurus absentiaS (~scott@ip216-179-64-58.cust.bestweb.net) |
| 09:57.19 | *** join/#zaurus kybu (~kybu@212.89.236.85) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:36.53 | *** join/#zaurus find_me (find_me@60-pool1.ras11.coden-le3.alerondial.net) |
| 10:40.34 | *** join/#zaurus galvatr0n (galvatr0n@public1-lanc1-3-cust192.brig.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 10:41.18 | galvatr0n | has anyone managed to setup a java dev environment on the Z |
| 10:54.52 | *** join/#zaurus ljp_laptop (~ljp@tq0104.peakpeak.com) |
| 11:24.54 | *** join/#zaurus galvatr0n (galvatr0n@public1-lanc1-3-cust192.brig.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 11:25.05 | galvatr0n | is anyone here using jCompiler for Embedix |
| 11:27.38 | *** join/#zaurus duplexer (~duplexer@220.94.77.89) |
| 11:34.46 | *** join/#zaurus kergoth`bbl (~kergoth@dsl081-228-056.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 11:38.00 | galvatr0n | does anyone know what is the latest ver of jcompiler |
| 11:56.20 | *** join/#zaurus duplexer (~duplexer@220.94.77.89) |
| 12:56.28 | *** join/#zaurus pHluid (~phluid@rrcs-midsouth-24-172-97-221.biz.rr.com) |
| 13:00.30 | *** join/#zaurus pH1uid (~phluid@rrcs-midsouth-24-172-97-221.biz.rr.com) |
| 13:08.39 | *** join/#zaurus Sniper1 (~Sniper@gatekeepernj3.sharpsec.com) |
| 13:15.40 | *** join/#zaurus galvatr0n (galvatr0n@public1-lanc1-3-cust192.brig.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 13:17.00 | galvatr0n | does anyone know how to establish ethernet over usb cradle with 5600 on xp can someone please help as i cant seem to find anything about it |
| 13:17.06 | *** join/#zaurus flipppy (~flip@ip68-2-120-183.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 13:17.16 | *** join/#zaurus duplexer (~duplexer@220.94.77.89) |
| 13:27.44 | chouimat | morning |
| 13:28.19 | galvatr0n | does anyone know how to establish ethernet over usb cradle with 5600 on xp can someone please help as i cant seem to find anything about it |
| 13:29.51 | *** join/#zaurus aTypical (~zic@66-215-29-97.mpk-mres.charterpipeline.net) |
| 13:30.02 | *** join/#zaurus phoen][x (~phoenix@pD9564F9A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:31.11 | aTypical | hello. |
| 13:32.02 | aTypical | i am chatting on my z. this keyboard is going to take some getting used to. |
| 13:32.17 | phoen][x | use the stylus, heh |
| 13:33.14 | aTypical | to write or keyboard? |
| 13:38.17 | *** join/#zaurus frankps (~fsilye@maccie.uio.no) |
| 14:20.44 | *** join/#zaurus duplexer (~duplexer@220.94.77.89) |
| 14:26.26 | *** join/#zaurus lbDefine (~dsmith@adsl-80-200-80.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 14:33.53 | *** join/#zaurus mewyn (~mewyn@dsl081-228-057.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 14:34.40 | *** join/#zaurus wijnand (~wijnand@alice.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 14:39.57 | *** join/#zaurus TimRiker (~timr@proxyle01.ext.ti.com) |
| 14:40.23 | *** mode/#zaurus [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:11.59 | *** part/#zaurus gabe (gabe@rootdown.net) |
| 15:12.41 | *** join/#zaurus jshare_ (~trillian@dsl093-128-017.sfo2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 15:26.16 | *** mode/#zaurus [+o kergoth] by ChanServ |
| 15:28.54 | hardwire | wiki wiki |
| 15:28.56 | hardwire | waa waa |
| 15:30.19 | kergoth | heh |
| 15:30.50 | Twiun | hey hardwire... gonna trace pingi or are we going to go forwards with an OE logo? |
| 15:31.49 | hardwire | hell if I know ;) |
| 15:31.56 | hardwire | I thought pingi was retiring |
| 15:32.15 | hardwire | what is the top contender for the OE logo? |
| 15:35.04 | Twiun | no idea - but I think we'll need an 800x600 version of it :) |
| 15:35.38 | hardwire | so choose a vector one |
| 15:35.50 | hardwire | 800x600 eh.. what are you implying? who has a PDA that sexy ;) |
| 15:36.14 | kergoth | hardwire: simpad |
| 15:36.29 | hardwire | whazzat |
| 15:36.41 | chouimat | kergoth: the dc will need a 640x480 |
| 15:37.06 | hardwire | 800x640 |
| 15:37.06 | hardwire | funky |
| 15:37.14 | hardwire | http://www.pocketpcmag.com/May02/images/May02_p17_1.jpg |
| 15:37.25 | chouimat | hardwire: 330EUR for the simpad |
| 15:37.32 | hardwire | hey.. not bad |
| 15:37.41 | *** join/#zaurus qfh (~qfh@pD9E8A41C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:37.41 | hardwire | what runs the little booger? |
| 15:37.46 | Solar[X] | How well does it run Linux? |
| 15:38.04 | hardwire | sa2110 eh |
| 15:38.08 | Twiun | Solar[X]: quite well apparently |
| 15:38.09 | chouimat | don't know I'm trying to get one in canada |
| 15:38.16 | Solar[X] | Interesting |
| 15:38.32 | hardwire | Internal memory (RAM)64 MB (32 MB Flash) |
| 15:38.33 | Twiun | Solar[X]: a few of the #openembedded guys are working on getting opie happy on it |
| 15:38.35 | hardwire | what does that mean? |
| 15:38.51 | chouimat | hardwire: 64MB ram and a 32mb flash |
| 15:38.53 | hardwire | 64 MB ram + 32 flash? or 32 ram 32 pseudoflash |
| 15:38.58 | hardwire | hmm |
| 15:39.03 | hardwire | chouimat: you getting one? |
| 15:39.32 | hardwire | thats obviously not a sa framebuffer device.. right? |
| 15:40.03 | Twiun | afaik, it is |
| 15:40.29 | hardwire | anybody done initial tests on the PCMCIA ? |
| 15:40.32 | chouimat | hardwire: I'm trying to ... I have to solution get my brother bring me one but since I just spent 1300cad yesterday ... or getting one myself whenn I will be in europe at the end of augustt |
| 15:40.48 | hardwire | wtf are you doing in canada? |
| 15:40.50 | chouimat | to solution == 2 solution |
| 15:40.55 | chouimat | hardwire: living |
| 15:41.03 | hardwire | since when! |
| 15:41.07 | chouimat | hardwire: 1974 |
| 15:41.16 | hardwire | hmm |
| 15:41.20 | hardwire | I thought you were in .de |
| 15:41.29 | Solar[X] | Quite a few of them on German Ebay. |
| 15:41.35 | chouimat | hardwire: I'm born here :) and I want to get out |
| 15:42.20 | Solar[X] | You could ask someone from Germany to ship it to ca. |
| 15:42.40 | Solar[X] | THey go about at 300-350 Euros. |
| 15:42.55 | chouimat | Solar[X]: that too |
| 15:44.31 | *** join/#zaurus warmi (~a3c01504@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 15:46.19 | Solar[X] | Haha this guy is selling a complete Sun network consisting of 60 workstations and a server, and this other guy offered 2,50. |
| 15:46.26 | Solar[X] | Or 2.50 |
| 15:46.30 | cyn_ | hahaha |
| 15:46.48 | cyn_ | the shipping on that alone is gunna be like $5000 |
| 15:47.02 | Twiun | Solar[X]: lol, I'll offer $10 - I fancy having a cluster of 60 boxes |
| 15:47.19 | Solar[X] | Heh yeah, and looking at the keyboards these workstations appear to be ultra class. |
| 15:47.59 | Twiun | Solar[X]: in which case, they'd only ever be any good clustered |
| 15:48.01 | Solar[X] | Hm they're thin clients. |
| 15:48.06 | Twiun | they make crappy workstations |
| 15:48.11 | Solar[X] | http://static.marktplaats.nl/fotos/hardware/sun/2398.jpg |
| 15:48.12 | Twiun | no! |
| 15:48.25 | cyn_ | they're not actually suns they're suri's and it's just blurred |
| 15:48.38 | Twiun | hmm... can't tell if they're thinclient from that pic |
| 15:48.47 | Twiun | any other pics? |
| 15:49.04 | Solar[X] | Nope... but look carefully at the first group of six. |
| 15:49.15 | Solar[X] | You can see them standing next to the screens. |
| 15:49.31 | cyn_ | yea the boxes are next to the monitors |
| 15:49.32 | Solar[X] | Slightly tilted, with a green light. |
| 15:49.35 | cyn_ | they look thinclient |
| 15:49.44 | cyn_ | they look the size of a cable modem |
| 15:50.26 | Solar[X] | This guy is offering a complete network yet he doesn't give a bit of information |
| 15:50.44 | Solar[X] | The ad just says "for sale - Sun network consisting of 60 workstations and a server". |
| 15:51.00 | Solar[X] | It could well be worth $100k, but just as well $1k. |
| 15:51.11 | Solar[X] | http://wwws.sun.com/hw/sunray/sunray1/ |
| 15:51.28 | Solar[X] | Sun workstations are pretty cool, but Solaris sucks. |
| 15:51.48 | kergoth | so load up debian or something |
| 15:52.18 | Solar[X] | Not all CPUs are well-supported... most of them do run Open/NetBSD pretty well though. |
| 15:52.44 | Solar[X] | I'd like a thin client... so I could move this roaring airplane engine somewhere else. |
| 15:52.46 | cyn_ | the only problems i remember getting debian on sun was the framebuffer could be a bitch sometimes |
| 15:53.00 | cyn_ | hah my wife even wants a thin client |
| 15:53.11 | Twiun | Solar[X]: noise is the reason why I'm going to buy a mini-itx system soon |
| 15:53.15 | cyn_ | I have official sanctioned approval to have a badass network setup in the basement and thin clients in the house |
| 15:53.16 | warmi | hi |
| 15:53.25 | cyn_ | er s/network/server/ |
| 15:54.28 | Solar[X] | It has a lot of advantages I guess. |
| 15:54.47 | Solar[X] | But I wonder if you can watch movies on them. |
| 15:55.41 | cyn_ | ya good question |
| 15:57.11 | Solar[X] | Bleh Dutch Ebay totally sucks. |
| 15:57.17 | Solar[X] | It doesn't have a single thin client. |
| 15:57.23 | Solar[X] | The German one has 5. |
| 15:58.23 | Solar[X] | I might buy one when I get some more money, to satisfy my obsession for buying technology I don't particularly need. |
| 15:58.32 | *** join/#zaurus Aimio (~user@adsl-189-145.iomart.com) |
| 16:19.39 | *** join/#zaurus decaff (~kevin@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 16:27.05 | *** join/#zaurus decaff (~kevin@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 16:57.00 | *** join/#zaurus untorn (~chatzilla@6532160hfc103.tampabay.rr.com) |
| 17:13.46 | *** part/#zaurus Sniper1 (~Sniper@gatekeepernj3.sharpsec.com) |
| 17:14.53 | doughecka | TimRiker: hey |
| 17:19.20 | *** join/#zaurus wal (~waleed@dsl961.saudi.net.sa) |
| 17:25.36 | *** join/#zaurus SirPsycho-home (~sirpsycho@adsl-216-62-159-221.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 17:25.37 | *** join/#zaurus treke (~ggilbert@12.107.12.130) |
| 17:38.12 | TimRiker | doughecka: hey. |
| 17:39.17 | doughecka | isnt there a special unbannable mode that I can get? :) |
| 17:56.20 | Twiun | doughecka: only sending kergoth loads of $$$ iirc |
| 17:56.33 | doughecka | hrm, drats |
| 17:56.34 | doughecka | :) |
| 17:58.45 | Twiun | I'm sure he'd take payment in other negotiable items or services... |
| 17:59.19 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:59.21 | kergoth | :) |
| 17:59.26 | doughecka | hurrah |
| 17:59.32 | doughecka | dual monitors on my linux box |
| 18:00.37 | lbDefine | can someone suggest a good jabber client for the Z? |
| 18:01.35 | Twiun | doughecka: time to send kergoth one of those methinks :) |
| 18:01.54 | doughecka | lol |
| 18:02.45 | doughecka | I cant believe they had a matrox dual head card in the box |
| 18:05.29 | cyn_ | doughecka: what box |
| 18:05.37 | Neo|Work | Stryker: http://eongames.com/feed/ |
| 18:05.39 | cyn_ | this was at work or somethin? |
| 18:05.48 | doughecka | yea |
| 18:05.55 | doughecka | redhat 8 |
| 18:06.12 | doughecka | took me an hour, fiddling with XF86Config :) |
| 18:06.31 | cyn_ | coolies |
| 18:09.14 | doughecka | rdesktop is freaked out though.... |
| 18:11.46 | kergoth | rh8 |
| 18:11.46 | kergoth | bleh |
| 18:12.16 | doughecka | thats whats been on the drive |
| 18:12.17 | doughecka | :) |
| 18:12.25 | doughecka | first time booted for 6 months or somethin |
| 18:18.47 | *** join/#zaurus aTypical (~aTypical@67.104.7.42.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 18:21.15 | aTypical | Hello all. Does anyone know if there is a problem switching between the USB-I/O and USB-TCP/IP PC Link options? I want to use I/O at home and TCP/IP at work. |
| 18:28.01 | Neo|Work | doughecka: an hour?! wtf? :-) |
| 18:28.53 | doughecka | well... |
| 18:29.13 | doughecka | I had to lookup the monitor, and stuff, this it he first time I ever did stuff like this |
| 18:35.04 | *** join/#zaurus clemi_z (~clemi_z@216-73-109-110.ocdc-01.net) |
| 18:53.28 | *** join/#zaurus mutexer (~spock@adsl-82-173-58.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 18:58.17 | *** join/#zaurus caffeine^ (~kevin@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 18:59.33 | *** join/#zaurus decaff (~kevin@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 19:01.47 | *** join/#zaurus YeiazeI (~yeiazel@home.yeiazel.net) |
| 19:06.16 | *** join/#zaurus caffeine^ (~kevin@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 19:06.19 | *** join/#zaurus TeaX (~tx@ppp-41-154.27-151.libero.it) |
| 19:06.48 | TeaX | can anyone test my app (tximage)? it's just a moment |
| 19:08.38 | TeaX | please |
| 19:23.12 | *** join/#zaurus caffeine^ (~kevin@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 19:28.43 | *** join/#zaurus huhnl (~huhnl@dhcp3.dkstat.com) |
| 19:31.57 | TeaX | my zaurus doesn't work |
| 19:32.07 | TeaX | i need a tester |
| 19:34.21 | *** join/#zaurus decaff (~kevin@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 19:36.02 | TeaX | :( |
| 19:40.55 | *** join/#zaurus caffeine^ (~kevin@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 19:41.27 | *** join/#zaurus fliplap (~flip@ip68-2-119-66.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 19:54.28 | *** join/#zaurus br33zy (~br33zy@dt0f7n86.san.rr.com) |
| 19:56.50 | *** join/#zaurus hotgrits (~markt@moya.trilug.org) |
| 19:57.50 | *** part/#zaurus hotgrits (~markt@moya.trilug.org) |
| 20:06.18 | *** join/#zaurus vadim (~user@62.117.68.2) |
| 20:28.34 | *** join/#zaurus PorkySpine (~PorkySpin@213.58.32.183) |
| 20:34.50 | *** join/#zaurus oGMo (~rpav@216.190.2.74) |
| 20:36.54 | *** join/#zaurus llookk_Z (~zChat@213-140-19-188.fastres.net) |
| 20:39.23 | *** join/#zaurus llookk_Z (~zChat@213-140-19-188.fastres.net) |
| 20:39.40 | llookk_Z | hi |
| 20:41.25 | *** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-44c14684.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 20:49.02 | *** join/#zaurus m_0f (~m0f73@vsat-148-63-111-199.c002.t7.mrt.starband.net) |
| 21:00.26 | *** join/#zaurus fantomik (phantom@titan.tkomp.pl) |
| 21:00.30 | fantomik | hi :-) |
| 21:01.45 | fantomik | where I can get a list of compatible (with Zaurus sl5600) BT cf devices? (assuming that i'll have original sharp rom) |
| 21:02.25 | zap-zero | BT? |
| 21:02.29 | fantomik | blue tooth |
| 21:03.21 | zap-zero | hm |
| 21:03.27 | zap-zero | maybe in /lib/modules |
| 21:03.38 | fantomik | i know that there are some problems using bt with zaurus (and using blueZ). [i don't have zaurus yet] |
| 21:03.43 | treke | /lib/modules wouldnt have a device list |
| 21:03.53 | zap-zero | well, but sorta chipset list |
| 21:04.27 | fantomik | I just want to be sure that it'll work correctly before I buy it ;-) |
| 21:04.46 | *** join/#zaurus pHluid (~phluid@rdu57-208-100.nc.rr.com) |
| 21:17.06 | *** join/#zaurus `Leaves (~Leif@CPE0040f44a40c4-CM.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 21:19.28 | *** join/#zaurus `Leaves^2 (~Leaves@CPE0040f44a40c4-CM.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 21:20.23 | *** join/#zaurus _Psycho_ (~Bob@HSE-Montreal-ppp340089.sympatico.ca) |
| 21:26.40 | *** join/#zaurus decaff (~kevin@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 21:40.26 | *** join/#zaurus warmi (~a3c01502@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 21:43.40 | *** join/#zaurus eoin (~eoin@12-253-72-66.client.attbi.com) |
| 21:43.59 | *** join/#zaurus fdask (~fdask@CPE0040f46b86ad-CM00407b863c23.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 21:44.01 | fdask | hey |
| 21:44.08 | eoin | any tips i can get for a MySQL C/C++ API on the Zaurus? |
| 21:44.15 | fdask | hey |
| 21:44.23 | fdask | anyone here have a power adapter from peakcloudy on ebay? |
| 21:46.03 | eoin | anyone here have any expierence with MySQL on the Zaurus? |
| 21:46.21 | *** join/#zaurus \Kritikal\ (Kritikal@pcp04070806pcs.sanarb01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 21:46.37 | \Kritikal\ | m00? |
| 21:47.48 | *** join/#zaurus decaff (~kevin@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 21:48.10 | eoin | anyone here have any expierence with MySQL on the Zaurus? |
| 21:48.36 | oGMo | no, but you may have good luck with SQLite |
| 21:48.39 | oGMo | sqlite rocks |
| 21:49.05 | \Kritikal\ | anyone know of a flash player opie? |
| 21:49.06 | kergoth | mmm sqlite |
| 21:49.10 | kergoth | sup oGMo |
| 21:49.21 | oGMo | not much, you? |
| 21:49.29 | eoin | oGMo: thats what I'm using now, but we need to be able to convert an Access database to something we can manipulate on the zaurus |
| 21:49.31 | kergoth | knee deep in buildsystems |
| 21:49.36 | kergoth | i'm sure you know the feeling well |
| 21:49.37 | kergoth | :) |
| 21:50.17 | oGMo | kergoth: heheheeh |
| 21:50.39 | eoin | oGMo: do you know how to convert an Access database into something SQLite can use? |
| 21:50.44 | oGMo | eoin: well, what kind of data and size are we talking about? |
| 21:51.15 | kergoth | oGMo: 2 hours of html colors? dear god man |
| 21:51.20 | oGMo | dump it to SQL and import it to SQLite... or write a little script to input tab delimited files and insert them, or soemthing |
| 21:51.23 | oGMo | kergoth: yeah :P |
| 21:51.34 | *** join/#zaurus davoid (~g76sadf78@modemcable243.234-202-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 21:51.44 | davoid | Is there a zaurus emulator? |
| 21:51.48 | oGMo | "can we make that one darker? now, remove the border. oh, can we change the text around up there? ok, no, how about the other way" |
| 21:51.59 | eoin | oGMo: how do you import the SQL dump into SQLite? |
| 21:52.14 | davoid | I saw that the openzaurus screenshots show openzaurus running in a window |
| 21:52.15 | oGMo | eoin: probably sqlite db < dump.sql ;) |
| 21:52.17 | davoid | unde rlinux |
| 21:52.29 | oGMo | davoid: er, why not just do a native compile? ;) |
| 21:52.37 | eoin | oGMo: i'll try it; thanks man |
| 21:52.43 | oGMo | those are probably either VNC or a native compile |
| 21:52.54 | davoid | oGMo im not compiling anything. I want to have the emulator I've seen on openzaurus.org |
| 21:53.07 | oGMo | eoin: np... i don't know how sqlite handles large datasets, but otoh, the Z probably can't handle it at that point either |
| 21:53.28 | davoid | I'm sure you guys know of an emulator :-) |
| 21:53.28 | oGMo | davoid: i could be wrong but i think thye're just running an x86 linux version in a window |
| 21:53.53 | davoid | oGMo yeah eh.. you're right I think. |
| 21:53.58 | oGMo | i think it would be hard emulating a 200MHz CPU at a reasonable speed on most hardware |
| 21:54.11 | davoid | oGMo why emulate the cpu speed. that's stupid :-P |
| 21:54.35 | oGMo | davoid: well, you want an emulator... |
| 21:54.38 | fdask | anyone here have a power adapter from peakcloudy on ebay? |
| 21:54.52 | oGMo | it's kinda dumb to emulate it anyway, given you can just run the apps natively :) |
| 21:55.32 | davoid | oGMo thing is that the oz.org guys don't say anything about how they had that zaurus screenshot |
| 21:55.54 | kergoth | davoid: ? |
| 21:56.18 | davoid | kergoth the screenshot on openzarus.org where you see the oz GUI running inside a linux window.. |
| 21:56.22 | davoid | kergoth how'd they do that? |
| 21:56.43 | Twiun | Inside a linux window... you mean X? |
| 21:56.46 | kergoth | davoid: _we_ did that by catting the framebuffer directly, and then converting the raw format data into something sane |
| 21:56.48 | *** join/#zaurus pHluid (~phluid@rdu57-208-100.nc.rr.com) |
| 21:57.22 | davoid | kergoth it looks pretty nice.. thought it was an emulator |
| 21:57.43 | kergoth | er, paste the url of the screenshot in question |
| 21:57.47 | kergoth | might not be the one i'm thinking of |
| 21:58.15 | Twiun | I think he means http://openzaurus.org/oz_website//content/shots/opie/vnc-vnc-rdp.jpg |
| 21:58.19 | davoid | http://www.openzaurus.org/oz_website/content/screenies the most bottom one |
| 21:58.29 | Twiun | and as the filename suggests, it was done using VNC |
| 21:58.33 | kergoth | the filename says it all |
| 21:58.34 | kergoth | yeah |
| 21:58.34 | davoid | http://www.openzaurus.org/oz_website//content/shots/opie/vnc-vnc-rdp.jpg |
| 21:58.58 | davoid | ah. sad then :P |
| 21:59.24 | mewyn | heh |
| 21:59.37 | mewyn | a |
| 21:59.52 | cyn_ | more entertaining |
| 22:00.10 | oGMo | mewyn: do tell |
| 22:00.12 | oGMo | i love crazy ideas |
| 22:00.16 | davoid | so eager to see picogui in action.. 2 more days till this zaurus comes. |
| 22:00.23 | mewyn | it's an everything box |
| 22:00.36 | kergoth | picogui is spiffy |
| 22:00.43 | cyn_ | spiffier than opie? |
| 22:01.00 | oGMo | is picogui C++? |
| 22:01.14 | kergoth | nope, its c |
| 22:01.23 | davoid | :O this _is_ sad then :\ |
| 22:01.24 | kergoth | i really really like evas myself |
| 22:01.27 | oGMo | that might appeal to people |
| 22:01.28 | davoid | wanted a reason to learn C++ here.. |
| 22:01.32 | oGMo | kergoth: evas is neat |
| 22:01.34 | mewyn | a handheld that can be an music player/recorder, video player/recorder, pda, NAS, AP & router, and Wireless internet device |
| 22:01.43 | kergoth | oGMo: and perty |
| 22:01.47 | kergoth | oGMo: anything raster does is perty |
| 22:01.50 | oGMo | it needs to be more robust before it's a viable platform, but it's nifty |
| 22:01.53 | oGMo | kergoth: yeah |
| 22:02.01 | eoin | oGMo: congrats, the sqlite db < db.sql worked |
| 22:02.02 | davoid | do you know if the 5500 model comes with an integrated microphone? |
| 22:02.15 | kergoth | oGMo: he's working on a gui canvasing server |
| 22:02.18 | oGMo | i still remember seeing fvwm-xpm for the first time... man, those were the days |
| 22:02.23 | oGMo | kergoth: hrm weird |
| 22:02.32 | oGMo | eoin: cool |
| 22:02.35 | eoin | oGMo: the question is how do you make Access dump a file that is all SQL commands to reconstruct a database |
| 22:02.39 | kergoth | oGMo: not particularly.. even qt/e uses a window management server |
| 22:02.45 | kergoth | oGMo: makes a certain amount of sense |
| 22:02.48 | oGMo | eoin: that would be the key ;) |
| 22:03.13 | oGMo | kergoth: oh, i see, we're talking server more like X |
| 22:03.15 | eoin | oGMo: OR can you have SQLite import a flat ASCII comma-delimeted file |
| 22:03.20 | cyn_ | mewyn: don't forget remote control |
| 22:03.31 | cyn_ | I use it as a remote to watch anime on my desktop |
| 22:03.32 | oGMo | people have talked about widget servers before, that's...eh |
| 22:03.41 | mewyn | hrm. good idea |
| 22:03.41 | cyn_ | ssh in, fire up mplayer, takes commands from the Z |
| 22:03.55 | cyn_ | ... or configure IRDA and get IRDA on yer box etc. |
| 22:04.02 | oGMo | eoin: you can always write a 3-line ruby script to do it for you ;) |
| 22:04.02 | mewyn | this would take care of your video playing, just hook up the svideo |
| 22:04.04 | cyn_ | there's prolly some tv/vcr/dvd/etc. remote software too |
| 22:04.09 | oGMo | maybe 2 lines |
| 22:04.40 | Twiun | davoid: you could always write a C++ client lib for picogui :) |
| 22:05.39 | oGMo | people have been moaning about Qt and C++ |
| 22:05.40 | eoin | oGMo: yeah, thats what i'm telling my boss, but.... |
| 22:05.57 | oGMo | eoin: but? ;) |
| 22:05.59 | davoid | oGMo people moan about everything. |
| 22:06.09 | Twiun | ... eventually |
| 22:06.15 | oGMo | you coud do it with a little awk too... just translate the delimited file into SQL |
| 22:06.18 | oGMo | should be fairly trivial |
| 22:06.20 | eoin | .o0 (Would be a good excuse to finally learn/use Ruby) 0o. |
| 22:06.33 | oGMo | davoid: yeah |
| 22:06.34 | eoin | yeah, thats totally what I want to do |
| 22:06.53 | oGMo | that solution is less efficient, though |
| 22:07.19 | eoin | oGMo: yes, but you gotta do, what ya gotta do ;-) |
| 22:07.39 | eoin | oGMo: people have been complaining about Qt? |
| 22:07.49 | oGMo | eoin: well, C++ mostly |
| 22:08.02 | eoin | oGMo: man, i love both Qt and C++ |
| 22:08.53 | oGMo | well, i don't love C++... more the opposite... but Qt is wonderful and C++ is damn well fine enough for the Z |
| 22:09.16 | oGMo | i mean many apps are barely a step above hello world |
| 22:09.37 | oGMo | so it's not like you've got megs of codebase |
| 22:11.17 | *** join/#zaurus subdue (~chopstix@198-79-109-131.hi.net) |
| 22:11.25 | eoin | oGMo: yes; after using Qt for the first time, i was very much in awe of that lib |
| 22:12.11 | oGMo | eoin: yeah... compared to other widget libraries, like.. pick one ;) |
| 22:12.22 | oGMo | although i haven't used FOX or picogui |
| 22:12.27 | Twiun | best of all is TT are planning on making Qt properly component based |
| 22:12.28 | eoin | oGMo: for the longest time i used GTK+ cause I dint like how Qt looked |
| 22:12.58 | oGMo | but... win32/mfc/etc, X, motif, gtk... |
| 22:13.09 | kergoth | Twiun: they've had the ability to do components for some time, havent they? just didnt implement? |
| 22:13.12 | oGMo | eoin: yeah |
| 22:13.31 | Twiun | kergoth: yeah, there's that, but it's not only a gui thing |
| 22:13.33 | oGMo | components? like embeddable stuff? |
| 22:13.48 | oGMo | and embedding such |
| 22:13.50 | kergoth | component architecture, ala COM, eh Twiun? |
| 22:14.06 | kergoth | god I've got this caffeine shortage in my system today |
| 22:14.11 | Twiun | hehe |
| 22:14.24 | oGMo | quick! to the penguin mint dispenser! ;) |
| 22:14.28 | Twiun | I don't know the specifics, the posting wasn't really that detailed :/ |
| 22:14.45 | oGMo | actually i think those things have aspartame in them, so stay far away |
| 22:15.29 | oGMo | Twiun: what's cool is qt is turning into a full-fledged platform... like, everything java was supposed to be |
| 22:16.36 | Twiun | oGMo: my only issue with Java is Sun's bend on including everything into the jre |
| 22:16.53 | Twiun | oGMo: the api is way too cluttered |
| 22:16.57 | oGMo | Twiun: hrm |
| 22:17.08 | oGMo | yeah, cluttered with clutter |
| 22:17.09 | Twiun | oGMo: the language and bytecodes aren't that bad |
| 22:17.14 | treke | oGMo: as long as trolltech norway turns it into a full fledged platform I'm ok with that :p |
| 22:17.23 | oGMo | Twiun: well, i disagree there, but i'm not getting into that again ;) |
| 22:17.33 | Twiun | oGMo: lol - in any case, I quite like Qt too |
| 22:17.38 | *** join/#zaurus bzdoug (Joe@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 22:17.44 | oGMo | hehe |
| 22:17.50 | Twiun | and atm, C is growing on me |
| 22:18.11 | Twiun | Mwahahahaha |
| 22:18.14 | kergoth | ~lart Twiun |
| 22:18.15 | oGMo | heh |
| 22:18.18 | oGMo | haha |
| 22:18.28 | bzdoug | haha |
| 22:18.29 | Twiun | I love reading those ioccc entries |
| 22:18.31 | kergoth | I just love C based OO schemes |
| 22:18.49 | oGMo | kergoth: i like objectish programming in C |
| 22:18.58 | oGMo | ADT's make life a bit easier overall |
| 22:19.25 | kergoth | i'm no good at reading obfuscated code, but i sure seem to write a lot |
| 22:19.27 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:19.37 | oGMo | hehehe |
| 22:19.54 | bzdoug | heh |
| 22:21.15 | Twiun | yeah, I've heard about you and regex |
| 22:21.26 | oGMo | http://students.washington.edu/jeffdh/blum.c |
| 22:21.27 | oGMo | hehehe |
| 22:21.33 | eoin | regex are fun |
| 22:21.39 | kergoth | indeed they are |
| 22:21.45 | kergoth | hm, you know what i need in this empty cube |
| 22:21.49 | oGMo | there's some raster code for you :) |
| 22:22.07 | kergoth | is a copy of the ten commandments of c programming |
| 22:22.31 | Twiun | kergoth: what about those kernel-dependency graphs? |
| 22:22.48 | eoin | kergoth: what ten commandments of c? |
| 22:23.01 | bzdoug | thats the first one |
| 22:23.03 | *** join/#zaurus decaff (~kevin@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 22:23.10 | bzdoug | dont ask what they are :) |
| 22:23.37 | kergoth | eoin: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca:8080/~elf/hack/The10.html |
| 22:24.30 | kergoth | brb |
| 22:32.09 | *** join/#zaurus zap-zero (andi@2001:768:18ff:17:0:0:0:0) |
| 22:47.19 | `Leaves^2 | has anyone got a wireless network sniffer like wellenreiter or kismet to work on sharp 3.1? |
| 22:47.28 | eoin | oGMo: hey, DO you have any idea how to import an ASCII file into SQLite? |
| 22:47.51 | treke | write a program to do it |
| 22:48.50 | eoin | treke: yes, thats whay i'm doing, but wouldn't it be slightly more effiecent to have the database do it itself? |
| 22:49.10 | eoin | treke: but at least i have an excuse to use Ruby now ;-) |
| 22:49.28 | treke | the database is just a library :) |
| 22:50.16 | cleverdra | eoin - what treke means to say is that he has no idea how or if SQLite imports ASCII files. |
| 22:52.31 | eoin | riiiiiighT |
| 23:12.45 | *** join/#zaurus huhnl (~huhnl@dhcp3.dkstat.com) |
| 23:30.22 | *** join/#zaurus caffeine^ (~kevin@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 23:39.58 | *** join/#zaurus bzdoug (Joe@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 23:44.34 | *** join/#zaurus OctaneZ (~octanez@adsl-64-108-96-45.dsl.wotnoh.ameritech.net) |
| 23:58.00 | *** join/#zaurus ljp_laptop (~ljp@tq0182.peakpeak.com) |
