| 00:01.25 | kergoth | toad_: set up forwarding on the linux box, and use the network install function of the software tool |
| 00:07.41 | raceme | time to go... bye bye |
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| 00:43.58 | CodeYoddler | update the topic... |
| 00:45.09 | Com[Plex] | why? |
| 00:45.20 | ginsu | HSN sold out |
| 00:45.25 | Com[Plex] | NOO?! |
| 00:45.28 | Com[Plex] | FAAACK |
| 00:45.34 | Com[Plex] | I was gonna get one tomorrow :<< |
| 00:46.34 | Com[Plex] | son of a bitch |
| 00:47.07 | ginsu | Yah. Once that hit /. it was all over |
| 00:47.22 | Com[Plex] | son of a bitch..:< |
| 00:47.29 | CodeYoddler | hsn was advertising the wrong pda anyway |
| 00:47.32 | Com[Plex] | ? |
| 00:47.37 | CodeYoddler | they were showing specs for the 5600 |
| 00:47.42 | Com[Plex] | hmm.. |
| 00:47.58 | CodeYoddler | it said that the pda they were selling had 64mb ram, 1700mah battery |
| 00:47.58 | Com[Plex] | I didnt notice. |
| 00:48.44 | Neo|Work | damn, those went fast |
| 00:49.10 | *** topic/#zaurus by Neo|Work -> Sharp PDA Discussion - http://developer.sharpsec.com/ || http://MyZaurus.com/ || http://openzaurus.org/ || OpenZaurus 3.1-rc3 released! || HSN has sold out their SL-5500 stock - sorry! |
| 00:50.22 | *** join/#zaurus ljp (~ljp@206.168.3.151) |
| 00:51.45 | *** join/#zaurus krezel[laptop] (~ItsME@166-90-245-44.ip2go.net) |
| 00:54.02 | cbok | lart kergoth |
| 00:54.07 | cbok | ibot lart kergoth |
| 00:54.19 | krezel[laptop] | kergoth is a directory? |
| 00:59.50 | *** join/#zaurus WhiteHat (~burrito@a213-22-103-44.netcabo.pt) |
| 00:59.52 | WhiteHat | hi there |
| 01:00.05 | WhiteHat | anyone using lirc/opie-remote |
| 01:00.06 | WhiteHat | ? |
| 01:03.52 | *** join/#zaurus [MiniMe] (~[MiniMe]@216-73-109-110.ocdc-01.net) |
| 01:04.34 | kergoth | hey [MiniMe] |
| 01:05.07 | [MiniMe] | hey kergoth |
| 01:05.14 | kergoth | how goes it? |
| 01:05.35 | *** mode/#zaurus [-t] by Neo|Work |
| 01:05.40 | [MiniMe] | purtty good |
| 01:05.53 | WhiteHat | hmm. |
| 01:05.56 | [MiniMe] | and with you? |
| 01:06.06 | WhiteHat | how can I test if lirc is working...? |
| 01:06.30 | kergoth | not too bad, hectic |
| 01:07.09 | [MiniMe] | tell me about it |
| 01:07.33 | [MiniMe] | everything waits till the last moment |
| 01:08.41 | [MiniMe] | and the damn 12 hour shifts at work |
| 01:09.33 | *** join/#zaurus flashoverLT (~flash0ver@adsl-158-108-239.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:10.01 | [MiniMe] | at least today has a high note |
| 01:10.15 | kergoth | whys that? |
| 01:10.20 | [MiniMe] | I found a rare first issue Gremlins DVD |
| 01:11.12 | [MiniMe] | Spielberg pulled them in 1997 |
| 01:11.54 | kergoth | nice |
| 01:12.10 | [MiniMe] | yeah |
| 01:12.25 | [MiniMe] | some people know not what they sell |
| 01:14.20 | *** join/#zaurus sig (~sig@h-66-167-252-64.STTNWAHO.covad.net) |
| 01:15.19 | [MiniMe] | now I just need to find th rare first issue of "little shop of horrors" |
| 01:15.44 | kergoth | spielburg fan? or looking to make $$? |
| 01:15.45 | kergoth | heh |
| 01:16.10 | [MiniMe] | collector |
| 01:16.24 | kergoth | gotcha |
| 01:16.36 | [MiniMe] | I have yet to part with my treasures |
| 01:19.36 | [MiniMe] | time to geaux |
| 01:19.39 | [MiniMe] | ta ta |
| 01:19.42 | kergoth | later |
| 01:25.59 | *** join/#zaurus \SuKo|Japan (~sukoshi@dyn-212-232-27-76.ppp.tiscali.fr) |
| 01:30.45 | CodeYoddler | how long does zaurus battery last? |
| 01:31.22 | Neo|Work | how long is a string? |
| 01:31.53 | ginsu | nice zen answer |
| 01:32.06 | kergoth | hehe |
| 01:32.18 | Neo|Work | the question is. however, pretty identical. :) |
| 01:32.26 | Neo|Work | answer would be: it depends |
| 01:36.46 | mewyn | neo: is snails supposed to be like worms? |
| 01:38.58 | Neo|Work | yes |
| 01:39.18 | Neo|Work | but with shells |
| 01:39.46 | mewyn | rock on :) |
| 01:42.33 | ginsu | CodeYoddler: There are tons of variables. Under what kind of use were you thinking? light/no light? CF Card? What kind of use on the CF Card? |
| 01:42.55 | mewyn | neo: snails is my first purchase once i'm gainfully employed! |
| 01:43.02 | Neo|Work | mewyn: :)) |
| 01:43.09 | Neo|Work | it _is_ a good game, objectively |
| 01:43.23 | treke | mutliplayer is lots of fun |
| 01:44.00 | *** join/#zaurus SuKo|Japan (~sukoshi@dyn-195-242-110-239.ppp.tiscali.fr) |
| 01:46.12 | Neo|Work | indeed |
| 01:46.15 | Neo|Work | works pretty well too |
| 01:46.24 | mewyn | yah |
| 01:46.27 | mewyn | well. i go now |
| 01:47.05 | treke | pdas and multiplayer games seem a bit odd though |
| 01:47.29 | Neo|Work | well, imagine wireless.. |
| 01:47.47 | Neo|Work | like boring-meeting-with-a-friend. :P |
| 01:48.10 | ginsu | And you don't have to try and angle your PDA's to keep the IR link going :) |
| 01:48.32 | treke | that could be fun |
| 01:48.44 | treke | boss would shoot me though :) |
| 01:49.38 | ginsu | I've been interested by the idea of games that you normally play on a PC (like MMORPG) but that have a 'thin' version you take with you |
| 01:50.39 | treke | I'd like to see something like the old lucas arts adventure games, broken up into little chapters that you can load up one or more at a time |
| 01:52.10 | treke | or maybe a baldurs gate type game |
| 01:52.20 | ginsu | treke: that'd be cool too. I was thinking more along the lines of the online nature of the games... e.g. "Baron NastyMan is attacking your castle! * Mount Defenses * Negotiate..." |
| 01:53.31 | treke | <treke> or maybe a baldurs gate type game |
| 01:53.35 | treke | bleh |
| 01:55.07 | ginsu | sorry, never played it... |
| 01:55.28 | *** join/#zaurus br33zy (~br33zy@dt0f7n86.san.rr.com) |
| 01:55.38 | CodeYoddler | Ok, so what would the battery life be like with watching a movie off of the cf card, without the backlight on |
| 02:00.19 | Titeuf | bye |
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| 02:13.33 | Pendalar | anyone into shoutcast here? |
| 02:15.29 | krezel[laptop] | Anybody here work in the bay area? |
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| 02:22.20 | Pendalar | bay or the electronic version.. |
| 02:22.53 | krezel[laptop] | Hmm? |
| 02:23.06 | krezel[laptop] | Like San Jose |
| 02:23.53 | Pendalar | ebay, was a joke |
| 02:24.15 | Pendalar | I have no idea, I suppose you could whois/track everyone one by one.. would be close enough |
| 02:27.43 | krezel[laptop] | haha |
| 02:27.45 | krezel[laptop] | Ok |
| 02:28.05 | krezel[laptop] | Just trying to figure out how poor I'd be trying to find someplace to work out there |
| 02:28.10 | krezel[laptop] | s/work/live/ |
| 02:29.14 | ginsu | krezel: if you didn't do both you'd be -really- poor |
| 02:32.00 | krezel[laptop] | heh |
| 02:32.15 | krezel[laptop] | Well I have someplace to work, just working on the "live" part |
| 02:33.46 | ginsu | Ah. I used to live/work there, now live/working in LA. |
| 02:34.03 | ginsu | (Los Angeles, not Louisiana) |
| 02:34.13 | ginsu | krezel: where are you now? |
| 02:34.48 | krezel[laptop] | Michigan |
| 02:34.50 | krezel[laptop] | I go to UofM |
| 02:35.08 | krezel[laptop] | Its an 8 month Co-op with IBM |
| 02:35.28 | ginsu | Oh nice, I've heard those are good! Extreme Blue? |
| 02:35.46 | krezel[laptop] | Web applications with IMS |
| 02:36.41 | ginsu | so they haven't given you any info re: housing? |
| 02:37.21 | krezel[laptop] | I just had my phone interview an hour or so ago, and they're entering the offer tonight |
| 02:37.43 | ginsu | ah. Well if you want a feel for what's available/costs, check out craigslist |
| 02:37.44 | krezel[laptop] | she said they have services to help co-ops find housing |
| 02:37.44 | ginsu | http://www.craigslist.org/sfo/sby/ |
| 02:37.53 | krezel[laptop] | awesome! thanks |
| 02:38.47 | ginsu | no prob. I found my last 2 apts through that site... good stuff. |
| 02:40.20 | krezel[laptop] | What part of the Bay Area did you work in? |
| 02:43.46 | ginsu | San Mateo |
| 02:44.00 | ginsu | Lived in Redwood City (just down the pinensula) |
| 02:44.25 | krezel[laptop] | Ah ok |
| 02:49.50 | *** join/#zaurus warmi (~www@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 02:49.56 | krezel[laptop] | Is Santa Theresa/San Jose "South Bay"? |
| 02:51.31 | *** join/#zaurus Bala (~Bala@hsdbsk142-165-147-86.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 02:56.25 | ginsu | I'd say it's either south bay or pinensula |
| 02:56.30 | ginsu | kind of south of both |
| 02:56.54 | krezel[laptop] | Ok |
| 02:59.15 | ginsu | hm, looks like craigslist is falling kind of short for san jose. Sorry :( Hopefully you can at least get a feel for prices etc. Check out pinensula |
| 03:00.26 | krezel[laptop] | I'm just trying to get some ideas for now. I've got a friend who worked with the same manager last summer, I'll see what his feelings are about housing |
| 03:08.39 | gaurdian | has anyone else got bus errors when useing nmap ? |
| 03:20.50 | *** join/#zaurus ibot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 03:20.50 | *** topic/#zaurus is Sharp PDA Discussion - http://developer.sharpsec.com/ || http://MyZaurus.com/ || http://openzaurus.org/ || OpenZaurus 3.1-rc3 released! || HSN has sold out their SL-5500 stock - sorry! |
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| 04:10.55 | mewyn | multi monitor is better than i thought |
| 04:11.57 | fishy | its sweet |
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| 04:12.25 | fishy | some stock brokers have like 12 monitors on 1 PC |
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| 04:35.24 | CodeYoddler | i wish I was an oscar meyer weiner |
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| 05:58.51 | gaurdian | mspencer , you here ? |
| 06:07.11 | *** join/#zaurus warmi (~www@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 06:07.43 | mspencer | I'm here |
| 06:08.01 | kergoth | hey |
| 06:08.23 | warmi | hi |
| 06:08.29 | warmi | http://www.vnunet.com/News/1139557 |
| 06:08.37 | warmi | is this what Jason was talking about ? |
| 06:08.41 | warmi | heh |
| 06:08.44 | *** join/#zaurus flipPhils (phigan@ip68-108-208-93.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 06:08.58 | warmi | new TI PDA .. but not exactly Linux based |
| 06:09.24 | kergoth | eh |
| 06:09.28 | kergoth | it doesnt say what OS it'll run |
| 06:09.33 | kergoth | but yes, i believe thats the one |
| 06:10.11 | warmi | Code-named Wanda (Wireless Any Network Digital Assistant), the Windows Pocket PC "tri-wireless PDA concept design" is powered by Texas Instruments' OMAP processors. |
| 06:10.21 | kergoth | ah |
| 06:10.22 | warmi | Windows Pocket PC |
| 06:10.30 | flipPhils | about java support on the Zaurus, will java apps developed for the zaurus run on a PC, or is it like java2me where you need an emulator? |
| 06:10.32 | warmi | maybe they are working on something else |
| 06:10.32 | kergoth | odd. |
| 06:10.34 | warmi | I hope |
| 06:11.42 | warmi | flipPhils : Zaurus is capable of running many of your standard java apps ( awt based) |
| 06:11.49 | flipPhils | i've been going over some of the commercial zaurus software, and some of it looks like it would take ~20 minutes todo in java and release for free |
| 06:11.53 | warmi | so I would think it would work the other way as well |
| 06:12.13 | flipPhils | ah good, its awt based |
| 06:12.57 | warmi | yeah, it supports awt only as far as I am know |
| 06:13.04 | warmi | "as I know" that is |
| 06:13.11 | warmi | but don't quote me on that |
| 06:13.21 | warmi | I never done any java for the zaurus |
| 06:14.04 | flipPhils | mkay |
| 06:14.53 | flipPhils | sharp does seem to have a pretty friendly development program |
| 06:15.10 | kergoth | *coughs* |
| 06:15.26 | flipPhils | ah cool, they have a personal java emulation dealy |
| 06:15.26 | warmi | well, not as friendly as say PPC where everything you need is available for free :-) |
| 06:15.45 | warmi | but , yeah , in general it works pretty well |
| 06:16.11 | flipPhils | everything isn't free? |
| 06:16.37 | warmi | well, if you are talking about Java then yeah |
| 06:16.42 | warmi | everything is free as far as I know |
| 06:16.50 | flipPhils | how much is the other stuff? |
| 06:17.04 | chouimat|Zzzz | night |
| 06:17.12 | warmi | but if you are talking about Qt/C++ (native) then it is only free if you are willing to release your app under GPL |
| 06:17.26 | warmi | otherwise you have to purchase commercial SDK for like $160 or something like that |
| 06:17.36 | flipPhils | oh, well yeah, anything i do will be GPL anyway |
| 06:17.54 | warmi | you just got your Z ? |
| 06:18.01 | chouimat|Zzzz | warmi: 195$ |
| 06:18.02 | flipPhils | haven't gotten it yet :-) |
| 06:18.24 | flipPhils | $181, including shipping, ordered it yesterday before HSN sold out |
| 06:18.36 | warmi | chouimat|Zzzz : yeah, 195 then |
| 06:18.53 | warmi | flipPhils : yeah, great deal |
| 06:19.08 | NeoTron | hrm |
| 06:19.21 | NeoTron | scenarion: I have a method Log(level, origin, fms, ...) |
| 06:19.37 | *** join/#zaurus thu (~thu@h24-78-136-7.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 06:19.38 | thu | hello |
| 06:19.45 | warmi | I wonder how many units they have sold |
| 06:19.53 | NeoTron | I want to make a macro DEBUG(fmt, ...) that calls (Log(Debug, __FUNCTION__ etc, fmt, ...) |
| 06:19.56 | NeoTron | how the fuck do I do that? |
| 06:20.04 | flipPhils | are there a lot of zaurus developers here? |
| 06:20.19 | warmi | yeah .. quite a few .. |
| 06:20.53 | warmi | NeoTron : uh ha .. I was never good with this kind of stuff .. just try rearanging stuff until it works :-) |
| 06:20.58 | warmi | that's what I usually do |
| 06:20.59 | warmi | heh |
| 06:21.06 | flipPhils | cool, oh, and the zaurus does have a built in java vm right? so any user should be able to run my stuff without downloading additional stuff? |
| 06:21.15 | warmi | flipPhils : correct |
| 06:21.22 | flipPhils | that is so nice |
| 06:21.28 | warmi | jeode jvm as far as I remember |
| 06:21.38 | flipPhils | i wonder if jcc will be ported |
| 06:21.52 | flipPhils | so you can compile java to native |
| 06:22.33 | warmi | uh .. doesn't it generate huge native executables ? |
| 06:22.47 | flipPhils | not really |
| 06:23.39 | warmi | why not just write native C++ code |
| 06:24.08 | warmi | qt is much better library than what's available in Java anyway |
| 06:24.46 | flipPhils | i'm not good enough in C++ |
| 06:25.14 | warmi | flipPhils : heh .. it is like a bit more sophisticated Java :-) |
| 06:25.51 | warmi | anyway .. if you are interested in coding for Java then talk to Twiun - he is most likely sleeping now |
| 06:25.59 | flipPhils | yeah, i'm a 2nd year CSE student, i learned java my first year, i'm in a C++ class now |
| 06:26.06 | flipPhils | ok |
| 06:26.09 | warmi | but he is what I would call a Java expert as far as Zaurus coding is concerned |
| 06:26.22 | warmi | ibot java |
| 06:26.22 | | extra, extra, read all about it, java is at (Link: http://www.blackdown.org)http://www.blackdown.org or at (Link: http://www.javasoft.com)http://www.javasoft.com or at (Link: http://www.savaje.com)http://www.savaje.com or at (Link: http://www.pocketlinux.com)http://www.pocketlinux.com or at (Link: http://java.sun.com)http://java.sun.com or at http://www.insignia.com |
| 06:26.37 | warmi | ibot zaurus java |
| 06:26.38 | | warmi: I wish you would RTFM. |
| 06:26.43 | kergoth | ibot: faq |
| 06:26.43 | | kergoth: I give up, what is it? |
| 06:26.46 | kergoth | hm |
| 06:26.49 | warmi | stupid bot |
| 06:26.51 | warmi | heh |
| 06:26.57 | warmi | ibot faq |
| 06:26.58 | | warmi: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox? |
| 06:27.06 | warmi | yeah, it is |
| 06:27.08 | kergoth | it used to be in the faq factoid |
| 06:27.14 | kergoth | ah well |
| 06:27.21 | warmi | oh well ... flipPhils : ask Twiun |
| 06:27.30 | flipPhils | btw, pocketlinux looks pretty dead/gone |
| 06:27.36 | warmi | he used to maintain faq about coding for the zaurus ( in java) |
| 06:27.39 | kergoth | yep, pocketlinux is dead |
| 06:27.44 | flipPhils | cool, i'll do that |
| 06:28.12 | warmi | in fact, I believe he is now working on a new version of jvm for the zaurus or something like that |
| 06:28.17 | warmi | he is heavily into this thing |
| 06:28.23 | flipPhils | i hate waiting for new toys, i ordered my zaurus yesterday, hsn's fastest shipping takes 5 days |
| 06:28.43 | flipPhils | and thier site's tracking deal still says its "ready to ship" |
| 06:28.47 | *** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-435182be.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 06:28.52 | warmi | well, yeah ... is this going to be your first PDA ? |
| 06:29.02 | flipPhils | nope, i used to have a PalmVx |
| 06:29.11 | warmi | my first impression was something like "man , this little thing is sooo cool" |
| 06:29.12 | warmi | ah ok |
| 06:29.25 | kergoth | remember the first time you pulled up a bash prompt warmi? |
| 06:29.28 | kergoth | that was sweet |
| 06:29.36 | flipPhils | heh, yeah, thats going to be nifty |
| 06:29.36 | kergoth | heheh |
| 06:30.01 | flipPhils | i need to pick up a CF wifi card |
| 06:30.02 | warmi | kergoth : yeah, and then you realize that this is basically a mini-linux box |
| 06:30.04 | warmi | pretty cool |
| 06:30.06 | kergoth | yup |
| 06:30.21 | flipPhils | warmi: thats pretty much why i bought it |
| 06:30.25 | warmi | heh |
| 06:30.29 | warmi | alright, bed time |
| 06:30.29 | flipPhils | well, that, and the price |
| 06:30.31 | warmi | see you later |
| 06:30.34 | kergoth | night |
| 06:30.35 | *** part/#zaurus warmi (~www@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 06:31.39 | mspencer | Hmm...I wonder...anybody with a c700, you know those two little loop or cable holes in the back...? I wonder what you could use those for...a lanyard or belt clip thing or something...hmm... |
| 06:32.00 | gaurdian | mspencer , hows the swap on SD working out ? |
| 06:32.09 | kergoth | mspencer: i'm sure you could.. |
| 06:32.15 | kergoth | I hadnt even noticed those |
| 06:32.16 | kergoth | hehe |
| 06:32.27 | mspencer | no problems so far, not too slow... |
| 06:32.29 | *** join/#zaurus Bala (~Bala@hsdbsk142-165-147-86.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 06:32.33 | kergoth | mspencer: i tell you, mallum has X and GPE working on the c700? |
| 06:32.42 | mspencer | !!! |
| 06:32.44 | kergoth | X + matchbox + GPE |
| 06:32.52 | kergoth | he's the guy that wrote matchbox |
| 06:32.53 | kergoth | heh |
| 06:32.55 | gaurdian | well I am thinking about it because the -O option in nmap runs the 5500 out of mem fast |
| 06:33.01 | gaurdian | get all sorts great errors |
| 06:33.46 | mspencer | Im definitely interested in X on the C700...more than willing to back up and blow this install away to try something new... |
| 06:34.13 | *** join/#zaurus treke|ho1e (~ggilbert@lsanca2-ar29-4-41-064-239.lsanca2.elnk.dsl.genuity.net) |
| 06:34.18 | kergoth | i'll build some ipks |
| 06:34.27 | *** join/#zaurus sig (~sig@h-66-167-252-64.STTNWAHO.covad.net) |
| 06:34.30 | mspencer | (upstairs on the c700 via VNC, trying to cook and keep the unit away from heat...) |
| 06:34.41 | gaurdian | hahahahaha |
| 06:35.36 | mspencer | My only concern is, I feel kinda married to the wifi card now. If I ever flashed to something that disabled wifi, I dont know that Id be able to flash back. |
| 06:35.56 | kergoth | heh |
| 06:36.05 | gaurdian | kergoth , I tried to find on the web something regarding swap on a SD and how it would effect SD card life but couldent get anything definitave... |
| 06:36.06 | kergoth | 1) you can install X without flashing, its ipks |
| 06:36.12 | kergoth | 2) OE/OZ on the c700 supports wifi just fine |
| 06:36.16 | mspencer | (and consider this proof, all ye doubters, that the c700s keyboard is as usable as they say :( |
| 06:36.23 | mspencer | erm :) |
| 06:36.38 | gaurdian | so I was wondering, what numbers did you find / |
| 06:36.47 | kergoth | heh, its all speculatioin |
| 06:36.51 | mspencer | ah...so X on the default sharp rom? |
| 06:37.04 | kergoth | but SD is flash |
| 06:37.10 | gaurdian | aye |
| 06:37.11 | kergoth | and swap on any flash medium is going to run it into the ground |
| 06:37.12 | mspencer | brb, water == boiling |
| 06:37.23 | kergoth | search the linux-arm or linux-arm-kernel archives, i'm sure there's been at hread on this |
| 06:37.26 | kergoth | or maybe hte linux mtd mailing list |
| 06:37.30 | kergoth | dont recall |
| 06:37.42 | kergoth | (marc.theaimsgroup.com) |
| 06:38.17 | gaurdian | well, assumptions were that a SD card should be good for about 1year under "normal" use, and swap would degrade that by 20% or so, that sound right ? |
| 06:38.59 | *** join/#zaurus sig (~sig@h-66-167-252-64.STTNWAHO.covad.net) |
| 06:39.17 | mspencer | Im sure all those debaters will like to hear my story, once something significant happens :) |
| 06:41.57 | mspencer | Do you suppose I should try to keep some kind of statistics? Can I get statistics from the VM subsystem that would help? |
| 06:42.38 | mspencer | I imagine my story wont be too useful without some kind of measure of what kind of memory pressure Im putting the system under... |
| 06:44.00 | mspencer | and if the memory fails within a year...RMA? :) |
| 06:46.38 | gaurdian | no ideas |
| 06:47.08 | mspencer | brb...taking food downstairs... |
| 06:50.41 | rgrep | mspencer: you can get simple stats like the amount of swap used/cached, but you'd probably need "number of writes" stats for any conclusive tests. |
| 06:51.18 | mspencer | that makes sense...and I don't really know what it'd do to the system, to make it log that... |
| 06:51.20 | rgrep | you could patch a kernel to log that info though, or even better to make it available in a file in /proc |
| 06:51.23 | *** join/#zaurus Com[Plex] (ANGRYMAN@65.217.160.228) |
| 06:51.27 | mspencer | yeah :) |
| 06:51.39 | Bala | would you get more life out of the card if you rotated the swap file on a daily basis? |
| 06:52.07 | mspencer | Hmm...that kinda makes sense... |
| 06:52.15 | kergoth | 'rotated'? |
| 06:52.28 | mspencer | Leave the existing swap file in place, move some files off, create a new swap file, swapon it, delete the old swap file, move the files back. |
| 06:52.40 | kergoth | how exactly would that help? |
| 06:52.48 | kergoth | in fact, i see that causing _more_ writes due to the moves |
| 06:52.52 | kergoth | heh |
| 06:53.21 | mspencer | When the old swap file is still on the disk, and there's no extra free space for it to scoot things around with, it has to leave the old swap file where it is. |
| 06:53.41 | Bala | i mean delete the swapfile.. and then make a new one... or would it get written to the same flash blocks? |
| 06:53.48 | *** join/#zaurus vhalros (~vhalros@syr-24-59-96-194.twcny.rr.com) |
| 06:53.48 | mspencer | So when we create a new file, that new file HAS to use different parts of the flash than the old file, because they can't occupy the same blocks. |
| 06:54.01 | kergoth | uh, afaik sd already has wear leveling |
| 06:54.02 | mspencer | Then swapon the new file, which is using a new set of blocks, and then delete the old file. |
| 06:54.10 | kergoth | which, by design, causes writes to be distributed across the entire medium |
| 06:54.23 | mspencer | I know that too, but my sd disk is usually kept with under 5 MB free. |
| 06:54.23 | kergoth | so I dont see this gaining you anything |
| 06:54.34 | kergoth | and moving shit around gains you what? |
| 06:54.35 | mspencer | let's think about that wear leveling... |
| 06:54.40 | Bala | ah ok.. so the "file" never takes up the same blocks? |
| 06:54.55 | mspencer | right. I thought that was your idea in the first place, bala :) |
| 06:55.04 | kergoth | heh |
| 06:55.11 | Bala | yeah it was.. but if SD does it automatically |
| 06:55.24 | mspencer | the wear doesn't come from the insignificant writes in creating and deleting a swap file -- it's the location of the swapfile, and the selection of which sectors are being hammered, which is changed. |
| 06:55.24 | kergoth | ibot: jffs2 |
| 06:55.26 | | it has been said that jffs2 is at http://sources.redhat.com/jffs2/ or alien technology from that ufo crash in New Mexico in the 1940's |
| 06:55.26 | Bala | i know all the flash ram i work with doesnt |
| 06:55.32 | kergoth | mspencer: uh |
| 06:55.41 | kergoth | mspencer: first, its block erases, not writes, that wear the media |
| 06:55.48 | mspencer | isn't that trivia? |
| 06:55.53 | kergoth | what? |
| 06:56.05 | kergoth | no, its a conceptual difference that makes a large real world difference |
| 06:56.11 | kergoth | its not insignificant |
| 06:56.21 | mspencer | I think that write versus erase distinction is trivial, when you're on our side of the filesystem driver. I'm looking elsewhere. |
| 06:56.25 | kergoth | wrong. |
| 06:56.29 | kergoth | eh? |
| 06:56.47 | kergoth | I think you need to go read the jffs2 documentation, and a few docs on flash in general |
| 06:56.51 | kergoth | then we'll continue the conversation |
| 06:57.26 | mspencer | So unless you think there's a significant number of writes where all of the 1's of the old contents are still 1's in the new contents, especially in a swap file, then you pointing that out was pedantry and contributed nothing. |
| 06:57.47 | rgrep | i don't know much about flash, but i was just reading up about it. it seems that any time you write a bit to the flash medium, you have to push the electron through the glass, thereby damaging it slightly. |
| 06:57.50 | mspencer | anyway...*scrolls up and gets back on track* |
| 06:58.15 | rgrep | and the same is true for removing a bit (i.e. setting a 1 to a 0), except the voltage required is higher, and so the damage is greater. |
| 06:58.26 | mspencer | heh and how do you say "wait a minute guys, hold on" and jump into a conversation, and then later say "read up and then we'll continue" -- as if you were the main participant in the first place...X__X |
| 06:58.30 | kergoth | argh |
| 06:58.52 | kergoth | first, empty flash is all 1s, not all zeros, just to clarify. |
| 06:58.54 | mspencer | I don't dislike you, kergoth, and appreciate all your work and your input, but... |
| 06:58.56 | kergoth | flash erase is 0->1 |
| 06:59.02 | kergoth | but what? |
| 06:59.22 | mspencer | ah...then reverse what I said and reconsider it. Are there a significant number of swapfile writes that are like that? |
| 06:59.57 | rgrep | kergoth: just to clarify, is a contained electron in a single cell unit considered to be a 0 or a 1? |
| 07:00.08 | kergoth | how the fuck do i know? |
| 07:00.09 | mspencer | heh :) |
| 07:00.10 | kergoth | I'm no EE |
| 07:00.19 | kergoth | and I know little about hardware |
| 07:00.27 | mspencer | that's a better way to make my point, rgrep ^__^ |
| 07:00.30 | kergoth | but I do know that empty, erased flash, is all 1s |
| 07:00.39 | kergoth | and that flash must be erased an entire block at a time |
| 07:00.41 | mspencer | anyway, back in filesystem land... |
| 07:00.42 | kergoth | not bit by bit |
| 07:00.54 | kergoth | jffs2 is a filesystem. |
| 07:01.03 | kergoth | i think you mean back in the traditional block layer filesystem land :) |
| 07:01.19 | mspencer | I imagine wear leveling probably uses free blocks on the "disk" to balance writes around -- how does it perform when there are no free blocks? |
| 07:01.45 | kergoth | it never gets into a zero free block condition |
| 07:01.53 | kergoth | a certain amount is kept for its own use |
| 07:02.08 | kergoth | well |
| 07:02.15 | kergoth | assuming a certain amount of sanity in the implementation :) |
| 07:02.22 | mspencer | then again, even if there were just 1% of the blocks free, and if 1% was that bare minimum number kept for its own use, then that 1% of free space would be allocated at different times to the entire disk... |
| 07:03.00 | mspencer | so the entire disk would see 99%-ish of the writes it would normally see, instead of everybody getting 100% and the free block getting 0... |
| 07:03.34 | mspencer | so when I have 4 MB free on my 128 MB SD card, and assuming there's another 1 MB of space that is never allowed to be filled (used as free space for wear levelling)... |
| 07:05.06 | mspencer | then I imagine the swap file would "walk" across the disk slowly. It'd be 'scooted' across the disk by the size of the free space, each time the entire contents of the disk was written. |
| 07:05.35 | kergoth | it wouldnt move as a single entity, but yes its content would be moved as necessary to distribute the writes |
| 07:05.36 | mspencer | hmm...waitaminute...even though it'll take a long time, we're worried about long-term wear here. |
| 07:06.14 | mspencer | So in the aggregate, even that slow 'shifting' of the contents, made possible by whatever free space is available...is enough to level the (allegedly) massive write load of a swap file, across the entire disk. |
| 07:06.33 | kergoth | correct. |
| 07:06.48 | kergoth | which was the point I tried to make.. that rotating the swap file is pointless |
| 07:06.50 | kergoth | :) |
| 07:07.14 | mspencer | I wonder if that's why some cards' controllers have trouble being anything except fat32 -- maybe they still think they can read the FAT and decide what to use for wear-levelling... |
| 07:07.41 | kergoth | I dont know much about the specifics of card design, who knows |
| 07:08.06 | mspencer | and they end up trashing valid data in that case. Or do some cards (the 'working' brands) decide at some point that they can't read the filesystem, give up on trying, and just behave as a dumb block of flash disk with no wear leveling... |
| 07:08.08 | Bala | mspencer: the wear leveling is below the FS level.. |
| 07:08.37 | mspencer | Ah...so the card always assumes whatever is allocated to the filesystem, is sacred and cannot be touched, and no assumptions can be made? |
| 07:08.51 | mspencer | I don't know if that was clear...I meant... |
| 07:09.18 | mspencer | I was thinking some cards might be able to judge which filesystem blocks were free, and steal the "physical backing" out from behind them until they're needed later... |
| 07:10.49 | *** join/#zaurus effy (~none@216.251.50.73) |
| 07:11.30 | *** join/#zaurus Pendalar_ (Pendalar@68.114.150.55) |
| 07:11.31 | kergoth | hey effy |
| 07:11.41 | mspencer | So it seems nobody's yet thrown a shitfit over my C700 conversion information...that's good...I'm relieved :) |
| 07:11.48 | effy | yo, sup kergoth |
| 07:11.59 | effy | mspencer: conversion info? |
| 07:12.39 | mspencer | Yeah... http://mspencer.net/stuff/c700conv.html (also emailed to...someone I forgot...for inclusion on docs.zaurus.com he said... ) |
| 07:13.36 | effy | a third mode? |
| 07:13.51 | mspencer | these aren't really modes, but that's one way to think of it, yeah. |
| 07:14.21 | mspencer | locale 'ja' but behaves in all other respects like an English unit. Except for excellent Japanese character support with no loss of the neat-looking English-only fonts :) |
| 07:14.29 | effy | I dont have time to read the entire thing and comprehend it, so how do you get into this "meta-mode"? hehe |
| 07:14.58 | mspencer | it's a howto. |
| 07:15.36 | mspencer | basically, set your locale to ja, delete the .qm files from QtPalmtop/i18n/ja, delete that whatsitcalled file from QtPalmtop/bin so HamcomWord will cooperate, and edit the text on a bunch of text files. |
| 07:16.28 | effy | haha |
| 07:16.29 | effy | ok |
| 07:16.42 | *** join/#zaurus minipanda (~minipanda@211.154.175.2) |
| 07:16.54 | effy | yeah, I had tried switching that Language=en before when I was poking around in terminal |
| 07:17.21 | effy | the Japanese definitely gets munched. isnt it empty squares that end up being displayed? |
| 07:17.42 | mspencer | well, I have a Dynamism unit, and can state that that one sentence above is about 80% of what they add to their warranty support and charge $150 premium for. |
| 07:18.03 | effy | you know, I could have told you that ;) |
| 07:18.21 | mspencer | Right, you get mojibake if you set the locale to en, UNLESS you go into QtPalmtop/lib/fonts/ and rip out all but a few fonts that support Japanese... |
| 07:18.29 | effy | I was telling some people to just get someone to send it to you from Japan and then slap something else on it |
| 07:19.30 | mspencer | cool stuff in there :) |
| 07:20.17 | effy | your desk is a MESS dude |
| 07:20.18 | effy | haha |
| 07:20.22 | kergoth | hehe |
| 07:20.26 | kergoth | nice gcc there |
| 07:20.45 | effy | is that a condom wrapper underneath the C700? |
| 07:20.51 | effy | so it's true that you get laid more often with a C700? |
| 07:20.51 | effy | ; |
| 07:20.52 | effy | ;) |
| 07:20.56 | mspencer | no, a bandage wrapper... |
| 07:21.01 | effy | and I didn't know you are in Nebraska ;) |
| 07:21.13 | effy | LOL ok |
| 07:21.15 | mspencer | my home address is on my whois ^__^ |
| 07:21.22 | effy | haah ok |
| 07:21.29 | mspencer | I slipped on ice and skinned my left knee up pretty badly some weeks ago. |
| 07:21.46 | effy | LOL, reflections galore ;) |
| 07:22.08 | mspencer | I'm a full time salaryman AND a full-time college student. I showed up for school one day, a bit late for class, said "oh look, a shuttle bus, if I run I can catch it"... |
| 07:22.48 | mspencer | took about two running steps, just enough to get up some speed, and then hit a large patch of ice, did my best roadrunner-type flying legs imitation, and skidded for...an unknown distance. |
| 07:23.01 | mspencer | it felt like 20 yards, but was probably about one or two feet. |
| 07:23.07 | effy | haha |
| 07:23.10 | effy | I know how you feel |
| 07:23.42 | mspencer | got up and said 'oh damn, I tore the knee out of my pants'. I had no idea... |
| 07:24.22 | effy | on ice? |
| 07:24.28 | mspencer | Yeah. |
| 07:24.42 | mspencer | icy concrete.. |
| 07:25.09 | mspencer | this was not a solid, smooth sheet of ice...my knee tells me it had lots of texture, just not a lot of traction. |
| 07:25.33 | effy | it still pretty painful? |
| 07:25.43 | Com[Plex] | haha |
| 07:25.55 | Com[Plex] | that sucks |
| 07:26.05 | mspencer | kinda...indirectly... |
| 07:26.07 | effy | woh, is that trillian on the zaurus? |
| 07:26.16 | mspencer | VNC |
| 07:26.22 | Com[Plex] | probably jabber |
| 07:26.29 | effy | Zentropy? |
| 07:26.45 | effy | and it works with Japanese well too, sweet |
| 07:26.50 | effy | hehe |
| 07:27.01 | mspencer | ohwait, that's not a Zaurus picture. |
| 07:27.19 | effy | LOL |
| 07:27.32 | effy | wow, your kana is quite good |
| 07:27.46 | mspencer | (from the quiz?) |
| 07:27.48 | effy | though you need to work on "saki" |
| 07:27.51 | effy | hehe yeah |
| 07:28.24 | effy | sorry, I'm just showing off :P |
| 07:28.36 | mspencer | saki? where was that again? |
| 07:28.48 | effy | it's the "sen" of "sensei" |
| 07:29.12 | effy | means "before" amongst other things |
| 07:29.13 | mspencer | ah, naruhodo... |
| 07:29.31 | mspencer | yeah, my 'sen' has gotten better since then :) |
| 07:29.35 | mspencer | ...but not much :) |
| 07:30.09 | effy | shit, I probably havent written it in years, hehe |
| 07:30.17 | effy | I just use my puter to do it all for me ;) |
| 07:30.36 | mspencer | I must've done pretty good -- the only part that got red ink was my name. X__X |
| 07:30.48 | mspencer | that and a 'yoku dekimashita' ^__^ |
| 07:31.00 | effy | LOL |
| 07:31.31 | effy | it looks like "sperise" |
| 07:31.37 | mspencer | I know... |
| 07:31.39 | effy | or maybe "supesose" |
| 07:31.43 | effy | :P |
| 07:32.05 | mspencer | I still don't seem to understand those four damned "tick mark and curve" katakana... |
| 07:32.23 | mspencer | except for the "one tick mark or two" difference, they all look nearly the same to me... |
| 07:32.33 | effy | yeah, it's a bitch at first cause it isnt logical in any way |
| 07:32.53 | mspencer | what are they again? 'n', 'shi', 'tsu', and one more... |
| 07:33.11 | effy | "so" and "n" look very similar, but "so" has the tick pointing more downward and "n" has it pointing more horizontal |
| 07:33.12 | Com[Plex] | hhe |
| 07:33.17 | mspencer | so, yeah, that's it... |
| 07:33.36 | Com[Plex] | I was learning this a while back,. had a japanese girl living in my back room. hhe |
| 07:33.44 | Com[Plex] | long story |
| 07:33.45 | mspencer | always a motivator :) |
| 07:33.55 | effy | but even then you'll have the occasional Japanese or smartass gaijin like myself tell you it isnt just that simple ;) |
| 07:34.04 | effy | lol |
| 07:34.07 | mspencer | and a damned fine, legitimate motivator it is too :) |
| 07:34.20 | effy | "can be" |
| 07:34.31 | effy | trust me, there are ugly Japanese women too ;) |
| 07:34.52 | mspencer | I believe you... |
| 07:35.19 | mspencer | my C700 elicited some new words from Rieko-san (the same girl who graded that kanji quiz)... |
| 07:35.25 | Com[Plex] | yeah, true true. she didtn speak much english, and she had a friend who she could communicate with a lto better. language barriers really suck. |
| 07:35.35 | mspencer | I've never heard an actual Japanese person use the word "sugoi" before then. ^__^ |
| 07:35.43 | effy | LOL |
| 07:35.57 | effy | well, if it were a male, you might here "suge~!" |
| 07:36.05 | mspencer | yeah... |
| 07:36.10 | effy | much like my own immature self |
| 07:36.27 | effy | people make fun of me for that LOL |
| 07:36.35 | mspencer | I've been very careful to try to ask about the differences between gender-neutral, usually-masculine, and usually-feminine phrases... |
| 07:36.56 | effy | definitely be careful |
| 07:37.04 | effy | don't want you talking like a female when you get here ;) |
| 07:37.05 | mspencer | because I'm planning on applying for JET, and I do NOT want my first attempt at using Japanese in a high school classroom to be met with laughter. :) |
| 07:37.13 | effy | LOL |
| 07:37.21 | effy | why not? it might be fun :P |
| 07:37.50 | effy | I would just suggest you be careful around guys you're trying to befriend. |
| 07:37.53 | mspencer | in the next few months I'll have to ask a Japanese girl if she wants to teach me neat chalkboard handwriting techniques... |
| 07:38.14 | mspencer | Hmm...I never thought of that, but you do have a point... |
| 07:38.54 | mspencer | but yeah, I don't want to write my name on the chalkboard and give people the impression I don't care enough about them to write neatly... |
| 07:39.49 | mspencer | then again, this home movie Odell-sensei showed us once kinda shocked me...this girl who looked all of seven or eight, standing up at a chalkboard doing a simple addition problem, writing the most neat and perfect looking numerals I'd never seen from that age group... |
| 07:40.17 | mspencer | and then struggling trying to hold a yardstick up to the board with one hand and drawing a horizontal line for the summation with the other...and the ruler kept falling...X__X |
| 07:41.16 | Com[Plex] | so penmanship is overimportant, but grace is not? |
| 07:41.25 | mspencer | that's TOO MUCH attention to detail, guys. :) |
| 07:41.44 | mspencer | I don't know how they compare, complex... |
| 07:42.07 | mspencer | I've heard that there's a lot more...umm...first-impression points...to be had from a person's handwriting, than happens over here. |
| 07:42.07 | effy | LOL |
| 07:42.32 | effy | I wouldnt say it's much different from the US |
| 07:42.49 | effy | first impressions last about as long, maybe a little longer, but they dont last forever |
| 07:42.55 | mspencer | shit, I'm glad nobody usually looks at my handwriting again. They'd never trust me with anything :) |
| 07:43.14 | effy | LOL |
| 07:43.20 | mspencer | but what I'm saying is, I thought I heard that handwriting counts more toward part of the first impression, than it does over here. |
| 07:43.31 | Com[Plex] | hehe. my penmanship is attrocious. - I can write a word or two, and it looks like very neat, meticulously crafted script, and then write a word with capital letters half way through it and completely offsets everything. |
| 07:43.31 | effy | well, if you keep showing how bad it is, then that first impression wont go away, I'm sure ;) |
| 07:44.03 | mspencer | well, I'm sure they realize Americans don't value neat handwriting so much, and they'll come to realize I write sloppily but care very much for other kinds of details. |
| 07:44.31 | Com[Plex] | Im a great speller, but when I write, I have like, a parity error between my brain and my fingers. I cant write fast enough to keep up with my racing brain. I skip letters, hell, even whole words, and have to go back and try to squeeze em in |
| 07:44.49 | mspencer | like the time Odell-sensei was telling us a joke about a gaijin being invited over to dinner with him one time... |
| 07:44.53 | effy | LOL |
| 07:45.15 | mspencer | there was a basic language lesson for the new guy that went along with the dinner...and then punch line was him putting two and two together and asking for more pie with "opai wo kudasai"... |
| 07:45.23 | mspencer | erm "and the punch line" |
| 07:45.49 | Com[Plex] | gaijin? |
| 07:46.01 | mspencer | I asked Misato-san about that after class, and she said pretty much anyone would realize the guy wasn't serious... |
| 07:46.02 | effy | LOL |
| 07:46.19 | *** join/#zaurus lsmith (~vandal@p213.54.5.18.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 07:46.21 | mspencer | And come to think of it, that was a dumb thing of me to ask. ANY culture can read body language...^__^ |
| 07:46.29 | Com[Plex] | huh? |
| 07:46.42 | Com[Plex] | care to expand a little on this? to an american.... hehe |
| 07:46.44 | effy | he said "opai" on purpose? |
| 07:46.51 | mspencer | I'm not clear on all the nuances of 'gaijin' but I think it's a derogatory term used for a foreigner, with connotations of 'outsider', or not-fitting-in... |
| 07:46.56 | mspencer | no, he was asking for more pie. |
| 07:47.04 | mspencer | and was trying to make it humble :) |
| 07:47.17 | effy | dude, if the Japanese were laughing, I wouldnt blame them haha |
| 07:47.19 | Com[Plex] | whats opai mean? |
| 07:47.24 | mspencer | mother's breast |
| 07:47.26 | effy | "opai" means "breast" |
| 07:47.29 | effy | LOL |
| 07:47.30 | Com[Plex] | ahh |
| 07:47.34 | Com[Plex] | *shrug* |
| 07:47.43 | Com[Plex] | so "tits, can I have some more pie please?" |
| 07:47.45 | effy | he was saying "give me breast please" |
| 07:47.51 | Wintre | Awesome |
| 07:47.58 | Wintre | And who could deny a request like that? |
| 07:47.59 | effy | LOL |
| 07:48.00 | mspencer | "we have none of that here" ^__^ |
| 07:48.16 | Com[Plex] | TITTIES! |
| 07:48.22 | Com[Plex] | oh god. im in the wriong channel |
| 07:48.31 | Com[Plex] | I thgouht this was the other zaurus chan. |
| 07:48.35 | Com[Plex] | effy, you screwed me up |
| 07:48.45 | effy | huh? |
| 07:48.47 | effy | poor guy |
| 07:48.50 | Com[Plex] | :) |
| 07:48.51 | effy | :P |
| 07:49.07 | effy | what's the problem? |
| 07:49.23 | Com[Plex] | I thgouht we were on efnet. so I was acting like I might in "my" channel |
| 07:49.31 | Com[Plex] | since you loft there too |
| 07:49.49 | Com[Plex] | anyway, Its time for bed. Ill see ya tomorrow |
| 07:49.53 | mspencer | night |
| 07:50.13 | NeoTron | the Japanese, especially older generations, seems way too strict. :P |
| 07:50.15 | *** join/#zaurus Trinity (~ast@Charybdis.suse.de) |
| 07:50.36 | effy | haha |
| 07:50.51 | effy | neotron: try getting them drunk |
| 07:50.51 | *** join/#zaurus MEGA|Home (~megastep@home.megastep.org) |
| 07:52.48 | effy | Though, I've met types who even while drunk act like if you do not kiss their ass immediately you must think you own the place |
| 07:53.48 | mspencer | but yeah, slight hash collision when merging english and japanese there :) |
| 07:55.19 | mspencer | Oh yeah, X on the C700! |
| 07:55.22 | Wintre | My brother and I read what Feynman wrote about trying to learn Japanese - if you wanted to look at somebody's garden, "Could I trouble you to show me your lovely garden?" |
| 07:55.35 | Wintre | If you wanted to show it off, "Could you be bothered to look at my lousy garden?" |
| 07:55.46 | Wintre | We had fun with taking this to extremes |
| 07:56.14 | effy | Feynman knew Japanese? |
| 07:56.19 | Wintre | "Could I beg you to blight your sight and dull your aesthetics with the horticultural nightmare I have perpetrated in my backyard and dare, DARE, to call a garden!?" |
| 07:56.24 | vhalros | "My garden is covered in the rotting corpses of slugs and horse fecies, would you like to see it?" |
| 07:56.39 | effy | LOL |
| 07:56.41 | effy | it isn't that bad |
| 07:57.00 | Wintre | effy: He learned enough to realize he wasn't very interested in a language which incorporated status |
| 07:57.11 | Wintre | vhalros: Yeah, that's the spirit |
| 07:57.20 | Wintre | effy: Maybe not, but it'd be amusing if it were ;) |
| 07:57.32 | effy | if you think English does not incorporate status, I have some beach-front property in Nevada I'd like to sell you |
| 07:57.46 | Wintre | It's not part of the grammar. |
| 07:57.57 | effy | neither is it in Japanese |
| 07:57.59 | Wintre | I suppose that it's not either in Japanese |
| 07:58.05 | effy | ;) |
| 07:58.18 | Titeuf | hi |
| 07:58.34 | Wintre | Hmm. Courtesy is courtesy, I guess, but it seems to be significantly more important in Japanese than in English |
| 07:58.38 | mspencer | irrashai is a completely new word, not just some conjugation of...umm...I forgot, iku? kuru? ... |
| 07:58.42 | effy | I actually like it here, cause at least people arent saying "would you like to have a look at my lovely garden which I did all myself and everyone thinks highly of?" |
| 07:58.55 | effy | iru |
| 07:59.05 | mspencer | ah :) |
| 07:59.21 | effy | irasshaimasu is polite for iru when asking if someone in the listener's in-group is there |
| 07:59.23 | mspencer | I was close. ^__^ |
| 07:59.34 | effy | irassharu |
| 07:59.37 | effy | is the base form |
| 07:59.59 | effy | keigo is fucked up because the end of the verbs dont conjugate normally heh |
| 08:00.10 | mspencer | I haven't gotten there in class yet, so I'm probably going to forget that...sorry... |
| 08:00.36 | effy | hey, it's not like I speak keigo haha |
| 08:00.59 | mspencer | I mean the iru/irassharu stuff... |
| 08:01.06 | mspencer | that's probably in year 2 or something :) |
| 08:02.13 | mspencer | I just recently learned +teiru continuous-state forms... |
| 08:02.42 | mspencer | and I don't know if there's some grand order and structure for Americans learning Japanese, but if there is, you know about where I am now. :) |
| 08:03.18 | effy | there sort of is something, and trust me, learning that bit is definitely going to help haha |
| 08:03.38 | mspencer | I imagine :) |
| 08:03.51 | effy | I listen to people just learning and I shake my head in shame |
| 08:03.52 | effy | :P |
| 08:04.13 | mspencer | but I like how that one "so you want to study japanese" page puts it: Teacher: "Good morning class." Bill: "Good morning." <gasps of shock from entire class> |
| 08:04.33 | mspencer | damn you, levels of honor/respect/humility! |
| 08:05.09 | effy | ? |
| 08:05.30 | mspencer | basically, that page is pointing out in an exaggerated way, why studying Japanese sucks and nobody should do it. :) |
| 08:05.43 | effy | haha |
| 08:05.45 | effy | how so? |
| 08:06.08 | effy | you know what I get sick of? |
| 08:06.12 | mspencer | Demonstrating something that makes no sense, in a scenario where the teacher greets the class and an unfamiliar American student uses the same greeting right back at the teacher, causing the entire class to gasp in shock and horror...^__^ |
| 08:06.23 | mspencer | what? |
| 08:06.33 | effy | I get sick of Americans who conform to so many things in their life they don't even know it. Yet they will go about criticizing Japanese because they also conform. |
| 08:06.41 | effy | hehe |
| 08:07.02 | mspencer | hmm, that's a good point... |
| 08:07.31 | mspencer | but I can see how an American would think it's unusually restrictive, to have to comply with two sets at the same time...the set that "feels right" and the new set they're learning... |
| 08:07.35 | effy | I said ohayou gozaimasu to my teachers all the time, there's nothing wrong with it. In fact, not answering is also considered a sign of disrespect. |
| 08:08.19 | mspencer | now I see why people bitched at me about using romaji, back when I hadn't started taking formal classes yet and was trying to pick up phrases. |
| 08:08.22 | effy | do you get insulted when your younger brother or someone you consider beneath you tries to "put you in your place"? Same happens here too. ;) |
| 08:08.54 | mspencer | When you're used to Japanese words always being written with japanese characters, roman letters just strikes your brain funny...it's like reading english in all caps or l33tspeak, but worse... |
| 08:08.58 | effy | There was this one chick I knew in my class, couldnt stop bitching about every little thing. |
| 08:09.06 | effy | was annoying to say the least hehe |
| 08:09.12 | mspencer | yeah :) |
| 08:09.14 | effy | yeah hehe |
| 08:09.29 | effy | if you get here, open your mind, let yourself make mistakes and laugh at it. |
| 08:09.45 | mspencer | (get here, meaning you're in Japan right now?) |
| 08:09.48 | effy | trust me, laughing at yourself could do a lot to save the situation and what people may be thinking of you. |
| 08:09.55 | effy | yeah |
| 08:09.56 | effy | ;) |
| 08:10.06 | mspencer | ah. I laugh at myself enough as it is -- that won't be a problem :) |
| 08:10.24 | effy | haha |
| 08:10.48 | mspencer | also...what size club do you have to beat Japanese people over the head with, before they start giving you honest critique about whether you're saying or writing something correctly? It's frustrating! X__X |
| 08:10.55 | effy | I see at least half of foreigners learn to live okay here. at least, the ones who came voluntarily and didnt hang around in gaijin groups. |
| 08:11.05 | mspencer | Stop being so polite! I won't be offended if you correct me, damnit! ^__^ |
| 08:11.31 | effy | hmmmm, just tell them you are not Japanese and do not understand the nuances, so you would honestly appreciate an honest opinion. |
| 08:11.48 | mspencer | hmm...yeah... |
| 08:11.55 | effy | it IS annoying that they cant be so honest hehe |
| 08:12.05 | mspencer | I've tried that a few times, but didn't have enough chances to screw up to test whether or not it worked. |
| 08:12.18 | effy | trust me, Japanese communicate honesty, but just in ways our gaijin brains cant understand haha |
| 08:12.42 | effy | I go back to Cali, and I get all paranoid because people are so damned straight |
| 08:12.45 | mspencer | I just wonder...from what you said about 'gaijin groups'... |
| 08:12.59 | effy | I cant decide if I am supposed to have taken offense or laugh |
| 08:13.14 | mspencer | I do tend to kinda coast and do whatever's easy, without outside stimulus... |
| 08:13.17 | Wintre | How long have you been in Japan, effy? |
| 08:13.31 | effy | Wintre: 4 years |
| 08:13.49 | mspencer | so I can imagine myself falling into that same kind of trap. When I look at Japanese exchange students here, I can tell it's stressful for them to be in social situations with mostly Americans...and I imagine it'd be the same way for me. |
| 08:14.04 | effy | mspencer: well, hmmmm, I was never in JET or anything, so I dont know what it's like. I prefer to be around locals for the most part. |
| 08:14.14 | mspencer | I hope to get that way myself :) |
| 08:14.28 | effy | mspencer: your TRUE Japanese experience will begin when you get out of JET, that much I would be sure of ;) |
| 08:14.39 | Wintre | JET? |
| 08:14.49 | mspencer | Japanese Exchange and Teaching |
| 08:14.51 | effy | mspencer: what does JET stand for exactly anyways? |
| 08:14.57 | Wintre | effy: Yeah, that's definitely long enough to experience culture shock |
| 08:14.59 | effy | ah hehe I thought E was English |
| 08:15.13 | effy | Wintre: I have a healthy respect for Japanese culture. hehe |
| 08:15.28 | effy | I still find myself pissed off and delighted in just about every day hehe |
| 08:15.58 | effy | Spring is coming and soon the sakura will be blooming, and I hope it tips more towards the latter ;) |
| 08:16.14 | effy | April is one damned fine month to be alive in Japan for |
| 08:17.28 | Wintre | I imagine it's a much different experience than moving to Europe or Scandinavia |
| 08:17.59 | effy | for a white person, yeah heh |
| 08:18.28 | mspencer | so how sheltered will life in JET be, anyway? |
| 08:18.37 | mspencer | I realize it's a government-provided job, but... |
| 08:18.58 | effy | well, you're working with gaijin who are native English speakers, and you're teaching students who already speak some bit of the language. |
| 08:19.19 | effy | you might even end up living in a dorm with gaijin |
| 08:19.24 | mspencer | socially and culturally, does that shelter you more than that? Ah...it's those unfamiliar situations in pure Japanese language that'll...ah, I gotcha... |
| 08:19.29 | effy | you tell me how sheltered that might get ;) |
| 08:19.36 | mspencer | yeah, exactly. :) |
| 08:19.40 | effy | haha |
| 08:19.51 | mspencer | gotcha :) |
| 08:20.00 | Wintre | Hum |
| 08:20.12 | mspencer | they need to stick my over-wired ass out in Hokkaido or something. :) |
| 08:20.21 | effy | but I believe they try to get gaijin teachers to go on field trips. That is where you might get to see some of it. |
| 08:20.55 | mspencer | but is that really that much more controlling than any other salaryman's 9-to-5? |
| 08:21.13 | effy | hmmmm, it isnt controlling, it's just the environment is kinda twisted. |
| 08:21.28 | mspencer | hmm... |
| 08:22.03 | effy | you have to try harder to get into friendships where the other person doesnt speak English so well. |
| 08:22.53 | mspencer | Yeah. I've already noticed, I think I'd have a hard time getting into a relationship with any of the exchange students, because I don't really feel like I can bond with them as well if there's that language barrier...some of the deeper concepts won't communicate... |
| 08:23.02 | effy | I went to Waseda for a year, and I found it somewhat easy to get into friendships like that. But I really didnt get to know so much about living in Japan until I was on my own, making my own money, fighting my own battles. |
| 08:23.07 | Wintre | That is difficult |
| 08:23.21 | mspencer | wow, that's impressive :) |
| 08:23.31 | effy | nah, man hehe |
| 08:23.38 | effy | it's do-able, definitely do-able |
| 08:23.55 | effy | and you learn the lessons along the way |
| 08:24.05 | mspencer | Oh yeah, that's right...not to put you down, but I guess being a native English speaker in Japan is a pretty decent meal ticket anyway... |
| 08:24.14 | effy | LOL |
| 08:24.45 | mspencer | Are you employed for English, or for other things? (sorry to pry...) |
| 08:25.57 | effy | I was originally hired because I had technical skills, and I spoke Japanese well enough |
| 08:26.10 | mspencer | even though I'm technical, I fully expect to be mostly employable only for English, at least at first... |
| 08:26.53 | effy | I'm going to head for home. it's early, but I'm about to be let go anyways. hehe |
| 08:27.02 | effy | be back in an hour ;) |
| 08:27.13 | mspencer | I might be in bed by then, but if not I'll see you then :) |
| 08:27.18 | effy | see ya |
| 08:27.22 | kergoth | hmm |
| 08:27.29 | kergoth | ~lart qt/e |
| 08:27.39 | mspencer | OK Beavis :) |
| 08:27.51 | effy | kergoth: you never told me how the translation came in use |
| 08:28.01 | kergoth | it didnt.. been working on the 3.1 release |
| 08:28.13 | effy | LOL ok |
| 08:28.14 | kergoth | but soon, very soon, I'm going to spend some quality time in kernel space again |
| 08:28.15 | mspencer | oh yeah...and where do I find this X for the C700? :) |
| 08:28.17 | kergoth | looking forward to it |
| 08:28.23 | mspencer | even if it's not in a neat, packaged form...I'm willing to hack around :) |
| 08:28.25 | effy | anyways, goodnight |
| 08:28.31 | kergoth | night effy |
| 08:28.40 | mspencer | he said he might be on later... |
| 08:28.42 | kergoth | mspencer: its more hack than you can imagine |
| 08:28.45 | kergoth | :) |
| 08:28.49 | mspencer | probably, yeah... |
| 08:28.53 | kergoth | its a tarball of a dir that gets dropped into the buildroot |
| 08:28.59 | kergoth | if you want to let it build from source, you can have it |
| 08:29.06 | kergoth | otehrwise i'll enable it in my build and let it produce some ipks |
| 08:29.07 | mspencer | hmm, perhaps not :) |
| 08:29.32 | kergoth | :) |
| 08:29.33 | mspencer | ah, OK. (also, do you have binutils comptible with the Sharp rom for the C700?) |
| 08:29.40 | mspencer | (I'm missing ar) |
| 08:29.54 | kergoth | you mean a native ARM bintuils? |
| 08:29.58 | mspencer | right |
| 08:30.03 | kergoth | not handy, could build one |
| 08:30.19 | kergoth | buildroot currently only builds a cross binutils, but making it do a native ipk would be simple enough |
| 08:30.30 | mspencer | that would rock -- I'll definitely use it :) |
| 08:30.39 | mspencer | as long as it isn't too much work... |
| 08:30.52 | mspencer | douzo okamai naku and all that... |
| 08:31.34 | kergoth | once you get it installed, its pretty easy |
| 08:31.50 | kergoth | matchbox is well designed. there are lots of x apps that are useless on a PDA, but GPE is usable |
| 08:32.04 | kergoth | goddamnit, something is fscked in my opie build |
| 08:32.06 | kergoth | grr |
| 08:32.09 | mspencer | later :) |
| 08:33.02 | kergoth | aha, it was old |
| 08:34.04 | yeiazel | since I've tried upgrading from testing to unstable, my Z doesn't want to boot; it blocks at "Please wait: booting..." |
| 08:34.07 | yeiazel | any idea ? |
| 08:34.23 | kergoth | yeiazel: do you get dropped to a prompt? |
| 08:34.28 | yeiazel | no |
| 08:34.42 | kergoth | can you get in via usb or wifi? |
| 08:34.50 | yeiazel | it blocks just after the "booting" message |
| 08:34.56 | yeiazel | oh, wait... |
| 08:36.12 | mspencer | also, so far I've run a day with rather heavy usage on that unstable errata-workaround-disabled kernel, and haven't had any problems. |
| 08:36.29 | yeiazel | the wifi card does as it worked, and finded a network |
| 08:36.29 | mspencer | Haven't had much considerable speed increases either, but enough to be worth it. Not like a major upgrade, but definitely a minor one. |
| 08:36.38 | yeiazel | I just need to find it IP address... :) |
| 08:36.49 | yeiazel | s/it/its: |
| 08:37.42 | kergoth | mspencer: cool :) |
| 08:38.11 | yeiazel | ssh connection is refused |
| 08:38.25 | yeiazel | but I can ping it |
| 08:39.01 | mspencer | oh yeah...the new kernel removes that solid white Sharp logo screen, and just gives you a little framebuffer penguin and scrolling boot messages. |
| 08:39.13 | kergoth | have you seen the OZ one? |
| 08:39.25 | mspencer | With only one problem -- the initialization is hidden sufficiently well that there are precisely two boot messages that print. Neither of which has any information. |
| 08:39.30 | mspencer | not yet... |
| 08:39.32 | kergoth | http://openzaurus.org/oz_website//content/shots/oz/console.png |
| 08:39.44 | kergoth | thats 2.4.19 on the 5500, but thats how my c700 looks as well |
| 08:40.02 | mspencer | cool :) |
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| 08:44.25 | yeiazel | I can ping the Z (via Wifi), but the display stays on "Please wait: booting..." and a nmap shows all scanned ports as closed |
| 08:45.43 | kergoth | strange. ssh shouldve been started long before it got to that point |
| 08:49.52 | yeiazel | don't you see a way to at least backup the internal memory |
| 08:49.53 | yeiazel | ? |
| 08:50.26 | kergoth | i'm not a miracle worker |
| 08:50.35 | kergoth | if you cant get in via the FB, and you cant get in via the network, you're in trouble |
| 08:50.39 | kergoth | heh |
| 08:51.47 | yeiazel | sure :) |
| 08:51.55 | yeiazel | damn, I've got no backup :/ |
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| 08:52.19 | kergoth | its always a good idea to backup before upgrading from unstable. it is .. unstable |
| 08:52.22 | kergoth | :P |
| 08:52.28 | yeiazel | yes :) |
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| 08:52.30 | kergoth | in this case, unstable is perfectly stable |
| 08:52.35 | kergoth | just the -upgrade- path is hosed |
| 08:52.38 | kergoth | :\ |
| 08:52.40 | kergoth | ipkg is a piece of shit |
| 08:55.04 | yeiazel | it wanted to change files in use, network configuration, and so... |
| 08:56.35 | yeiazel | downloading and installing packages 1 by 1 is good because of the disk space taken, but if it modifies the network configuration, you can't retrieve next packages... |
| 08:56.48 | yeiazel | If I knew C well, I would make ipkg2 :) |
| 08:56.52 | kergoth | yep, its possible to get into an inconsistent state |
| 08:58.55 | yeiazel | let's reflash it... |
| 09:00.24 | yeiazel | kergoth: do you know how fast is the Z sd/mmc interface ? |
| 09:00.48 | kergoth | sd/mmc is slow in general |
| 09:00.52 | kergoth | but the Z appears to be worse |
| 09:01.17 | yeiazel | then... s/fast/slow/ in my question :p |
| 09:01.28 | Titeuf | sd is slow, it's a serial interface :/ |
| 09:01.59 | yeiazel | Titeuf: serial interfaces can be very very fast... |
| 09:02.02 | kergoth | serial doesnt necessarily imply slow. |
| 09:02.24 | kergoth | I mean, we have cards that'll push upwards of a meg a second.. course you cant go more than 3 inches in cable length.. *g* |
| 09:02.34 | kergoth | (thats rs232, specifically) |
| 09:03.13 | yeiazel | many new technologies, implying very high speed, are based on a serial interface... |
| 09:03.16 | yeiazel | :) |
| 09:03.49 | yeiazel | :) |
| 09:04.00 | yeiazel | and is, on the Z, an ext2 sd slower than a vfat sd ? I've verified that in sync mode with oz3.0, but what about async mode ? |
| 09:04.01 | Titeuf | yes yeiazel but // is faster |
| 09:04.35 | yeiazel | Titeuf: at higher speeds, syncronization becomes impossible for parallel signals |
| 09:05.05 | Titeuf | and data are lost on serial lines |
| 09:05.09 | kergoth | eh? |
| 09:05.18 | yeiazel | Titeuf: lost ? |
| 09:05.41 | Titeuf | erf |
| 09:05.47 | kergoth | You're obviously applying blanket statements to serial communications as a whole rather than to the specific type of serial you're familiar with |
| 09:05.51 | kergoth | heh |
| 09:06.25 | Titeuf | my english isn't quite good at 10 am :p |
| 09:07.07 | yeiazel | [and what about my question on ext2/vfat ? :] |
| 09:07.30 | kergoth | in my experience vfat is a bit faster in general |
| 09:09.46 | yeiazel | I don't know if I should put ext2 or vfat on my sd card (256 megs, to install apps)... |
| 09:10.08 | kergoth | ext2. |
| 09:10.17 | yeiazel | ok |
| 09:10.18 | kergoth | otherwise you'll see issues due to vfat's inability to have symlinks |
| 09:10.33 | yeiazel | ok, thanks |
| 09:10.38 | yeiazel | and what about jffs2 ? |
| 09:11.05 | kergoth | jffs2 is for use directly on mtd devices |
| 09:11.15 | kergoth | you _can_ use it on sd via blkmtd, but you wouldnt gain much |
| 09:11.51 | yeiazel | ok |
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| 10:13.31 | *** join/#zaurus vins (~root@u5.cbi.ru) |
| 10:14.13 | vins | test |
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| 10:58.34 | mspencer | kergoth? if you're awake, one of my questions will put you to sleep. Guaranteed. :) |
| 10:58.49 | kergoth | hehe |
| 10:59.02 | kergoth | beating opie with a large blunt instrument |
| 10:59.48 | mspencer | can you give me a general pointer in the right direction? I'd like to turn...whatever...on so instead of the simple lonely (init: entering runlevel 5) simple messages I get, I get the whole kernel startup onscreen. |
| 11:00.12 | mspencer | Is there a chvt I should run? Should I go poking around in scripts and remove redirects to null or something? Kernel startup parameters perhaps? |
| 11:00.17 | kergoth | first, cat /proc/cmdline |
| 11:00.22 | kergoth | is console= there? |
| 11:00.51 | mspencer | console=ttyS0 |
| 11:00.55 | kergoth | there ya go |
| 11:01.06 | kergoth | its dumping messages out to serial |
| 11:01.08 | kergoth | heh |
| 11:01.28 | mspencer | damn...I never would've thought of that...had no idea that was there. :) Are those parameters editable, without too much pain? |
| 11:01.30 | kergoth | nothing you can do short of a kernel recompile |
| 11:01.48 | mspencer | ah...no lilo-equivalent to mess with then... |
| 11:02.07 | kergoth | right |
| 11:02.19 | kergoth | the bootloader on the Z isnt something we can fuck with as is |
| 11:05.12 | mspencer | well, sorry to bug ya...thought it'd be worth looking into. :) |
| 11:05.37 | mspencer | and I guess I wouldn't want debug messages going to the screen while qtopia was up, would I? X__X |
| 11:05.56 | kergoth | bingo. |
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| 11:06.24 | brent_Z | hey -- my USB connection keeps dying while I transfer files. Can anyone help? |
| 11:06.56 | brent_Z | please don't tell me no one on the east coast is up yet? :-) |
| 11:14.37 | brent_Z | never mind, think I got my answer on the bboards. |
| 11:59.38 | *** join/#zaurus Aimio (~fthf@adsl-189-145.iomart.com) |
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| 12:22.21 | *** join/#zaurus polin8 (~polin8@pool-141-157-5-76.balt.east.verizon.net) |
| 12:23.27 | polin8 | I'm reading through the OZ faqs and was hoping to get some opinions on which image to use |
| 12:23.56 | polin8 | I have a 256m SD card that I plan to use as a "hard drive" |
| 12:24.13 | yeiazel | sl5000 or sl5500 ? |
| 12:24.42 | yeiazel | I've got a sl5000, 0MB storage, 32MB memory, and 256 MB SD card for the system |
| 12:24.56 | polin8 | so I was think / would mount on the 16m ROM, and usr, home, var etc would go on SD |
| 12:25.00 | polin8 | 5500 |
| 12:25.20 | yeiazel | as long as your SD card will stay in the Z, I think you can get rid of the storage space in RAM |
| 12:25.25 | polin8 | cool |
| 12:25.26 | yeiazel | then take the 0-64 |
| 12:25.32 | polin8 | thats what I wanted to hear |
| 12:25.44 | yeiazel | :) |
| 12:26.09 | yeiazel | I see no reason to keep storage space in RAM with 256 MB on the SD :) |
| 12:26.29 | yeiazel | and format the SD as ext2 |
| 12:26.48 | polin8 | I was thinking maybe doing the 58-6 image for rescue purposes |
| 12:27.07 | yeiazel | rescue ? |
| 12:27.34 | polin8 | "oops it doesn't boot, maybe its the SD" |
| 12:29.19 | yeiazel | then remove the SD from the Z |
| 12:29.30 | yeiazel | but I don't see how RAM storage would help |
| 12:30.00 | polin8 | ok |
| 12:30.06 | yeiazel | you still have the internal memory |
| 12:30.09 | polin8 | thats even better |
| 12:32.00 | polin8 | thanks yeiazel, I'll be back after work to try it |
| 12:32.07 | yeiazel | :) |
| 12:38.02 | polin8 | one more thing, ext2? not ext3 or reiser? |
| 12:55.46 | yeiazel | ext2 |
| 12:56.16 | yeiazel | the z kernel doesn't support ext3 nor reiser |
| 12:56.26 | yeiazel | and there's no good reason to use a journalling fs |
| 13:05.32 | kolla | yeiazel: mm.. 256MB SD? what did you pay for that? :) |
| 13:06.08 | yeiazel | 257 EUR |
| 13:06.38 | kolla | ok :) |
| 13:06.46 | yeiazel | 128 MB would have been enough... :/ |
| 13:06.57 | kolla | I got a 128MB one |
| 13:07.23 | kolla | but I would like some more place to build up a proper developer environment on the Z itself.. ie.. debian :) |
| 13:07.37 | yeiazel | I've never put more than 80 MB on the card... |
| 13:10.56 | noidd | I bought at 256M card for 99 EUR :-P |
| 13:11.03 | noidd | sorry :-/ |
| 13:11.31 | yeiazel | ! |
| 13:11.36 | noidd | if it makes you feel better, I paid 330 odd EUR for my first one |
| 13:11.43 | yeiazel | :) |
| 13:11.51 | noidd | yeah - Best Buy in the US was clearing 256M SD cards for 99 USD |
| 13:12.07 | noidd | first one I bought in the UK for 250 quid ish |
| 13:12.20 | noidd | second one I bought about a month ago, paid 99$ |
| 13:12.26 | yeiazel | ok |
| 13:12.50 | kolla | noidd: 99EUR for a 256MB SD? |
| 13:13.02 | kolla | sounds more like the price for a CF card |
| 13:13.35 | yeiazel | kolla: let's slap him together, okay ? |
| 13:13.41 | kolla | :) |
| 13:24.15 | noidd | was definatly an SD card :-) |
| 13:24.23 | noidd | were originally 199USD |
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| 14:49.02 | chouimat | morning |
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| 15:00.23 | yeiazel | morning ? |
| 15:00.27 | yeiazel | it's 16 o'clock ! |
| 15:02.10 | chouimat | yeiazel: not here |
| 15:02.14 | yeiazel | hehe |
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| 15:30.09 | Wintre | ibot seen cloudchaser |
| 15:30.12 | | cloudchaser <~Cloudchas@ool-435684aa.dyn.optonline.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #zaurus, 21d 9h 32m 46s ago, saying: 'personally i don't give a shit about your sex lives'. |
| 15:32.14 | Pendalar | or lack of.. |
| 15:39.04 | *** join/#zaurus hotgrits (~markt@66.193.5.50) |
| 15:40.06 | hotgrits | hi folks |
| 15:42.20 | hotgrits | anyone know of good GPS apps for the Z? |
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| 15:42.42 | *** part/#zaurus jeremyp (~jeremy@moya.trilug.org) |
| 15:42.44 | treke|ho1e | ibot, zsi? |
| 15:42.49 | | i heard zsi is http://killefiz.de/zaurus/ and you can search zsi right now by typing 'ibot search zsi for <searchtext>' or 'ibot show recent zsi' |
| 15:42.56 | treke|ho1e | hotgrits: zsi |
| 15:43.05 | hotgrits | thanky! |
| 15:44.18 | Pendalar | Fear is the mind killer =-) |
| 15:44.45 | *** part/#zaurus hotgrits (~markt@66.193.5.50) |
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| 15:54.47 | *** join/#zaurus {aaron} (blah@aeolus.cit.cornell.edu) |
| 15:55.13 | {aaron} | newbie question: can somebody point me to a wireless product (module, card, whatever) for the Zaurus (not a service plan) ? |
| 15:55.36 | *** join/#zaurus XavierXeon (~mr_x@pD9E1E128.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:55.43 | yeiazel | virtually any CF Wifi card |
| 15:55.54 | {aaron} | ok |
| 15:55.56 | yeiazel | any with a chip supported by linux |
| 15:56.00 | {aaron} | any suggestions? |
| 15:56.04 | yeiazel | prism, etc. |
| 15:56.07 | yeiazel | I've got a Linksys WCF12 |
| 15:56.11 | {aaron} | ok |
| 15:56.46 | yeiazel | node dlink use TI chips (iirc) not supported by Linux |
| 15:56.48 | mallum | yeiazel: you use hostap drivers with that successfully ? |
| 15:56.50 | yeiazel | s/node/note/ |
| 15:57.03 | yeiazel | mallum: yes |
| 15:57.10 | yeiazel | with oz3.1rc3.1 |
| 15:57.25 | yeiazel | wasn't correctly detected with oz3.1rc2 |
| 15:57.59 | mallum | yeiazel: hmm orinico only works for me ( with 128bit enc ) |
| 15:58.35 | yeiazel | strange |
| 15:58.41 | yeiazel | but no enc here |
| 15:59.59 | Pendalar | get a socket or ambicom |
| 16:00.42 | mallum | yeiazel: yeah, I get an error when I try ande set the enc key |
| 16:01.35 | Pendalar | yeizel all you needed to do on rc2 was update hostap drivers (afaik) |
| 16:01.38 | yeiazel | ok |
| 16:01.44 | yeiazel | Pendalar: I know |
| 16:01.54 | yeiazel | Pendalar: but there's rc3.1 now :) |
| 16:02.18 | Pendalar | ye but it really wasn't rc2's fault was all I meant to point out |
| 16:02.42 | *** join/#zaurus bipolar (~bflong@24.229.103.140) |
| 16:03.08 | yeiazel | Pendalar: :) |
| 16:08.00 | noidd | anyone able to tell me what central time is? |
| 16:08.12 | noidd | offset from EST or PST is fine |
| 16:08.31 | Pendalar | it's GMT-6 |
| 16:08.39 | Pendalar | it's -1 from EST |
| 16:08.47 | noidd | excellent, thanks :-D |
| 16:10.47 | mandrake | noidd: it goes eastern, central, mountain, pacific |
| 16:11.26 | *** part/#zaurus {aaron} (blah@aeolus.cit.cornell.edu) |
| 16:11.32 | mandrake | noidd: there are some exceptions with regard to daylight savings time (some places to not observe it) but for the most part you can make the hour assumptions based off EST, |
| 16:11.33 | Pendalar | don't forget indiana or whatever that one is |
| 16:11.53 | Pendalar | which is EST except during certain months... wacked stuff |
| 16:12.05 | noidd | thank you mandrake |
| 16:12.05 | mandrake | Pendalar: that's the same rule I just mentioned. |
| 16:12.16 | mandrake | they don't observe daylight savings time |
| 16:12.16 | noidd | I figured that they would go CST and CDT |
| 16:12.22 | Pendalar | yep weird people |
| 16:12.24 | Pendalar | =-) |
| 16:12.43 | mandrake | there are other states just like that |
| 16:12.43 | mandrake | utah for example, I believe |
| 16:12.44 | Pendalar | nope they think they are special |
| 16:12.54 | mandrake | and there are some cities and counties that do the same thing also |
| 16:12.58 | noidd | which in theory I would spot.. however, last time I dealt with a group of people on the west coast - they used PST and PDT interchangably :-/ |
| 16:13.05 | Pendalar | not sure, I just know last time I went through Indiana I got a bit confused |
| 16:13.23 | noidd | oh, some states don't do daylight savings time? |
| 16:13.26 | noidd | how strange |
| 16:13.56 | mandrake | noidd: that's what I was just explaining :) |
| 16:14.03 | mandrake | noidd: it's not always just states |
| 16:14.04 | Pendalar | anyone use bastille firewall on a normal box? |
| 16:14.18 | mandrake | sometimes a city/county wide basis also |
| 16:14.46 | noidd | how bizzare |
| 16:15.09 | *** join/#zaurus kergoth (~kergoth@dsl081-228-056.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:15.23 | Pendalar | sometimes it's easier to type '/away' |
| 16:15.37 | kergoth | hey |
| 16:15.43 | Pendalar | =-) |
| 16:23.34 | Pendalar | I love it when people don't put wget or lynx on a box |
| 16:23.41 | Pendalar | just to make it fun for you to put stuff on it |
| 16:28.49 | icefox | asuming it has debian .... |
| 16:29.44 | Pendalar | it's not *sigh* |
| 16:29.57 | Pendalar | it's a fun minimal RH box |
| 16:30.09 | Pendalar | and I mean minimal as in I'm surprised SSH is installed ;-) |
| 16:30.14 | Pendalar | btw sup ben? |
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| 16:34.23 | *** join/#zaurus warmi (~a3c01504@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:34.38 | warmi | hi |
| 16:42.51 | gabe | hi |
| 16:43.07 | gabe | i want my zaurus already dammit. |
| 16:43.23 | yeiazel | what app other than mooview can deal with very large pictures ? |
| 16:43.50 | *** join/#zaurus treke|wherever (~ggilbert@ip60-25.outside.westmont.edu) |
| 16:46.12 | mewyn | hey warmi |
| 16:50.39 | icefox | yeiazel: tkc's |
| 16:50.56 | yeiazel | icefox: it's not free :) |
| 16:51.13 | yeiazel | but it's a correct answer to my question... |
| 16:51.32 | yeiazel | what free app other than mooview can deal with very large pictures ? |
| 16:51.34 | yeiazel | :) |
| 16:51.56 | icefox | well the updated Sharp one can |
| 16:53.03 | warmi | icefox: really ? |
| 16:53.33 | warmi | the problem was not the app itself but qt image handling (QImage/QPixmap) |
| 16:54.04 | warmi | mooview got around that problem by simply interfacing directly with jpeg library - that is why it can only read jpegs |
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| 16:55.22 | *** join/#zaurus treke|wherever (~ggilbert@ip60-25.outside.westmont.edu) |
| 16:56.09 | yeiazel | and I can't do zooms, etc, with mooview :/ |
| 16:56.34 | highpitch | i have installed the OZ 3.0. now what do i use to sync with the outlook? |
| 16:58.09 | *** join/#zaurus ljp_work (~ljp@tz0176.peakpeak.com) |
| 17:13.18 | kergoth | highpitch: the same thing you do to syncw ith sharp. |
| 17:21.17 | Pendalar | god must every file on my feed fail to make the Package |
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| 17:29.23 | *** join/#zaurus Taim (~Taim@12-226-34-51.client.attbi.com) |
| 17:31.20 | ginsu | sweet. HSN just sent a ship notice. |
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| 17:35.25 | *** join/#zaurus bobbyd (~none@mailgate.absolutestudios.net) |
| 17:38.14 | icefox | Pendalar: do you hand make the packages? |
| 17:38.25 | icefox | Do you use the ipkg-build which we all recomend for developers? |
| 17:38.36 | Pendalar | not my pacakges |
| 17:38.41 | Pendalar | feed building ;-) |
| 17:38.48 | Pendalar | trying to use that script of yours |
| 17:38.55 | bobbyd | ffs |
| 17:38.56 | *** join/#zaurus mewyn (~mike@dsl081-228-057.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 17:39.10 | bobbyd | i'm trying to mount a windows share under samba and all i get is 'invalid argument' |
| 17:39.21 | Pendalar | I might as well rebuild all of em at this rate |
| 17:39.43 | *** join/#zaurus TheMasterMind1 (foobar@h-68-166-73-47.MCLNVA23.covad.net) |
| 17:39.46 | bobbyd | mount -t smbfs -o username=guest //host/dir /mnt/dir |
| 17:41.02 | Twiun | did you have a look for smbmount? |
| 17:42.35 | warmi | smbmount //host/dr /mnt/dir options |
| 17:43.15 | bobbyd | Twiun: smbmount isnt on my standard c700 |
| 17:43.39 | Twiun | bobbyd: afaik mount -t smbfs will only delegate to smbmount |
| 17:43.56 | Twiun | bobbyd: that's why I asked |
| 17:44.02 | bobbyd | oh |
| 17:44.08 | warmi | bobbyd: well, install it then :-) |
| 17:44.33 | kergoth | i am in hell, and its name is the web |
| 17:45.04 | warmi | kergoth: what's up with that .. you been recently cursing the web |
| 17:45.11 | mewyn | warmi: smbmount is supposed to be wrapped with mount, i thought |
| 17:45.24 | kergoth | warmi: I am now maintaining a pile of 3000 static html pages for our site |
| 17:45.37 | kergoth | mewyn: eh, no. you cant mount smb shares as a user with mount |
| 17:45.40 | warmi | kergoth: hehehehe |
| 17:45.46 | mewyn | kergoth: hrm |
| 17:46.09 | mewyn | it musta just been my version. it whined and bitched back in the day when i was doing that |
| 17:47.37 | Pendalar | I think kergy is getting 'dev burn out' |
| 17:47.42 | *** join/#zaurus chouimat (~dieu@modemcable120.184-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 17:47.43 | kergoth | yes |
| 17:47.54 | mewyn | i've got the perfect solution to that |
| 17:47.57 | mewyn | BEER! |
| 17:47.59 | mewyn | :) |
| 17:48.05 | kergoth | nah, scotch |
| 17:48.07 | kergoth | but its not enough |
| 17:48.09 | kergoth | i need a vacationj |
| 17:48.13 | mewyn | heh :) |
| 17:48.13 | kergoth | again |
| 17:48.17 | kergoth | :) |
| 17:48.22 | warmi | Pendalar: 3000 html pages has nothing to do with "development" |
| 17:48.23 | warmi | heh |
| 17:48.34 | mewyn | i need to get off my permanent vacation :) |
| 17:48.40 | warmi | but it has everything to do with "pain in the ass" |
| 17:48.55 | Twiun | kergoth: no way of converting those static pages to something dynamic? |
| 17:49.11 | kergoth | Twiun: thats the plan, but it involves a huge developer effort |
| 17:49.19 | kergoth | and I despise web development with a passion |
| 17:49.23 | Twiun | lol |
| 17:49.26 | kergoth | so I dont want to be the one doing it |
| 17:49.43 | Twiun | could always get noda to do it I suppose |
| 17:49.51 | kergoth | hehe, nono, my company is too cheap |
| 17:49.58 | kergoth | they wouldnt be willing to pay a damn thin |
| 17:50.03 | warmi | Twiun: what happened with your Java on the zaurus FAQ ? |
| 17:50.15 | warmi | I was looking for it last night and the site appeared to be down |
| 17:50.40 | Twiun | warmi: eh? |
| 17:50.44 | Twiun | warmi: lemme check |
| 17:51.02 | mewyn | warmi: no change since wolak put the request back in? |
| 17:51.10 | warmi | never mind .. it is back now |
| 17:51.16 | warmi | but yesterday it was down |
| 17:51.20 | Twiun | weird |
| 17:51.28 | warmi | mewyn: haven't seen him yet |
| 17:51.30 | Twiun | my isp must've pulled the plug |
| 17:51.32 | Twiun | :) |
| 17:51.37 | mewyn | k |
| 17:52.00 | Twiun | warmi: afaik, ben should have a tgzipped mirror somewhere |
| 17:52.46 | Twiun | warmi: but that doesn't seem to have made it to docs.zaurus.com |
| 17:53.03 | Twiun | warmi: oh well, I guess I should put up a mirror somewhere |
| 17:53.09 | warmi | mewyn: we got an corporate email about war , about Tribune employes being called into service etc ... I don't know how this war will affect Tribune policies |
| 17:53.41 | warmi | Twiun: last night there was a guy looking for some info about coding in Java on the zaurus and for the zaurus |
| 17:54.10 | Twiun | warmi: ahhh |
| 17:54.31 | warmi | Twiun: recently, due to this incredibly cheap deals on 5500 I have seen quite a few new people coming to this channel asking about how to develop etc for the zaurus |
| 17:54.50 | mallum | warmi: hello, kergoth tells me you have arm asm based rotated blit code ? |
| 17:54.53 | Twiun | warmi: sounds good, now if only I could devote more time to Wonka |
| 17:55.18 | warmi | mallum: yeah - http://www.warmi.net/zaurus/blits.shtml |
| 17:55.51 | warmi | Twiun: yeah , I understand Sharp will drop Jeode in the future ROMs - you know what they are planning to use instead ? |
| 17:56.13 | Twiun | warmi: yeah, Spencer was talking about it on the boards |
| 17:56.20 | mallum | warmi: nice, thank you ! |
| 17:56.28 | Twiun | warmi: it'll be on the companion cd, not installed by default |
| 17:56.39 | warmi | hm ... like ipaqs |
| 17:57.18 | Twiun | warmi: http://www.zaurus.com/dev/board/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=1457&s= |
| 17:57.53 | warmi | thanks |
| 17:58.01 | Twiun | np |
| 17:58.44 | bobbyd | i think it was me asking about writing java on the zaurus |
| 17:58.51 | bobbyd | i want to do graphical apps |
| 17:58.57 | warmi | bobbyd: yeah, you and some other guy |
| 17:58.58 | bobbyd | i also want to do c++ on it |
| 17:59.06 | Twiun | bobbyd: ever done java before? |
| 17:59.12 | warmi | last night someone name flipPhil or something like that |
| 17:59.19 | bobbyd | but the gcc compiler .ipk that i tested doesnt work on my c700 |
| 17:59.23 | bobbyd | Twiun: yup |
| 17:59.34 | Twiun | bobbyd: then prepare for your worst nightmare :) |
| 17:59.42 | bobbyd | why? |
| 17:59.53 | Twiun | bobbyd: api is pretty much limited to 1.1+collections |
| 17:59.54 | kergoth | bobbyd: mspencer has gcc on his c700.. |
| 17:59.55 | bobbyd | i just want some simple screen output stuff |
| 18:00.13 | bobbyd | kergoth: cooool |
| 18:00.18 | bobbyd | mspencer: you there? |
| 18:00.36 | kergoth | bobbyd: i'll be adding some handy dandy dev ipks to the OZ buildroot and feeds one of these weeks.. |
| 18:00.55 | Twiun | bobbyd: if you've got any specific questions, I should be here - or send me email at twiun@adorphuye.com |
| 18:01.20 | bobbyd | well anyway, i stuck up some info, and someone else added ( i think it may have been mspencer) here:http://www.anderberg.co.uk/wiki/index.php/SharpZaurus |
| 18:01.27 | bobbyd | feel free to add/edit |
| 18:01.58 | bobbyd | Twiun: well first of all, how do i get gcc to install on my c700 when i'm not running OZ |
| 18:02.17 | bobbyd | i intend to move to OZ as soon asthe GUI is done for the c700 |
| 18:02.20 | kergoth | gcc should go in fine regardless |
| 18:02.31 | kergoth | I'm making great strides on that btw, had opie up and running last night |
| 18:02.35 | kergoth | few quirks i'm working out |
| 18:02.36 | bobbyd | cool |
| 18:02.54 | bobbyd | when i tried to install:http://www.killefiz.de/zaurus/showdetail.php?app=761 |
| 18:03.05 | bobbyd | it wouldnt even install the files, the package didnt show up |
| 18:03.07 | Twiun | bobbyd: gcc, listen to kergoth :) I'm a java guy, so java is what I know... |
| 18:03.10 | kergoth | then its probably the new format |
| 18:03.16 | kergoth | extract the ipk manually |
| 18:03.19 | bobbyd | ahh ok |
| 18:03.25 | kergoth | ar x blah.ipk |
| 18:03.29 | kergoth | tar zxvf data.tar.gz |
| 18:03.38 | bobbyd | kergoth: do you think i'll be able to dev graphical apps in c++ on the Z? |
| 18:03.42 | Twiun | bobbyd: my gcc experience is solely linked to the x86 cross compiler for native bits of the jvm I'm working on |
| 18:03.58 | bobbyd | Twiun: cool |
| 18:04.24 | bobbyd | Twiun: are there any 'bare bones' graphical java tutorials for the zaurus? |
| 18:04.39 | bobbyd | i was looking for source for the 'primtest' applet |
| 18:05.20 | *** join/#zaurus mewyn` (~mike@dsl081-228-057.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 18:05.43 | bobbyd | i have Kopi installed and working |
| 18:05.45 | bobbyd | it's fun ;) |
| 18:06.00 | Twiun | you can also use Jikes as the compiler |
| 18:06.35 | bobbyd | which is best? |
| 18:06.44 | Twiun | bobbyd: I think someone on the zaurus.com/dev/board boards has a page with tutorials |
| 18:06.51 | bobbyd | i want to get MinIDE compiled to work at full rez on the c700... |
| 18:06.59 | bobbyd | Twiun: ok thanks |
| 18:07.15 | Twiun | bobbyd: jikes uses less memory (it's a native app), Kopi is 100% java |
| 18:07.55 | bobbyd | Twiun: so is jikes faster then? |
| 18:07.58 | Twiun | bobbyd: there's also my faq pages for other things: http://adorphuye.com/zaurus/java/faq.jsp |
| 18:08.03 | bobbyd | and is there a package? |
| 18:08.05 | bobbyd | thanks |
| 18:08.29 | Twiun | Jikes is just an executable - it also needs a classes.zip file to get its reference classes from |
| 18:08.43 | Twiun | as for speed... I rarely build stuff on my Z |
| 18:08.48 | icefox | docs.zaurus.com knows all |
| 18:08.51 | Twiun | I compile everything on my PC |
| 18:10.15 | bobbyd | ok cool |
| 18:10.52 | Twiun | you can also use the wre.jar file from Wonka instead of the classes.zip file for compilation - it should be smaller |
| 18:22.06 | bobbyd | ok i'll try that tonight |
| 18:24.06 | *** join/#zaurus CeRIaL03 (~Zaurus@p50824B9E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:25.19 | Pendalar | I don't see why more people don't code via zaurus |
| 18:25.23 | mewyn | whee |
| 18:25.33 | Pendalar | you can always do bug fixing etc on the road |
| 18:31.09 | *** join/#zaurus frankps (~frankps@10.80-202-169.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:31.15 | frankps | hi all |
| 18:31.43 | warmi | Pendalar: well ... laptop is much better for this sort of thing |
| 18:31.50 | mewyn | lol. war hasn't even started and 15 iraqis surrender http://msnbc.com/news/870749.asp?0cv=CA01&cp1=1 |
| 18:33.01 | warmi | well, I would too ... last thing I would want to do is to lose my life protecting a guy like Saddam |
| 18:33.09 | kergoth | damnit |
| 18:33.12 | sandtrip | he's silly |
| 18:33.17 | kergoth | I just hit alt+f3 hoping to get to workspace 3.. |
| 18:33.17 | sandtrip | he'll loose all his money |
| 18:33.18 | kergoth | in WINDOWS |
| 18:33.35 | kergoth | mewyn: aha |
| 18:33.59 | warmi | sandtrip: you mean Saddam ? |
| 18:34.24 | mewyn | kerg: heh |
| 18:35.33 | Pendalar | I had when kill -9 doesn't kill something |
| 18:36.09 | mewyn | hate it when that happens |
| 18:36.18 | Pendalar | yeah hate.. sorry |
| 18:36.29 | Pendalar | got too many ssh sessions open to think right |
| 18:36.32 | *** join/#zaurus mtm (~mtmm@63.149.241.217) |
| 18:41.04 | mewyn | screen? |
| 18:42.04 | Pendalar | no many consoles open |
| 18:42.11 | Pendalar | windows everywhere blah |
| 18:42.28 | mewyn | screen 'em |
| 18:42.41 | kergoth | usually keep 2-4 screens running, grouped by category |
| 18:43.10 | chouimat | ~lart videotron |
| 18:43.16 | chouimat | ~lart videotron |
| 18:43.21 | chouimat | ~lart videotron |
| 18:43.27 | kergoth | chouimat: still having email probs? |
| 18:44.18 | mewyn | i don't do too much in a terminal anymore, so i don't depend on screen |
| 18:44.19 | chouimat | kergoth: they are doing a major server update .... eta: 3 days ... and they did not send a email to let us know |
| 18:44.23 | Pendalar | opie-mail2 seems to be horribly broken |
| 18:44.30 | mewyn | how so? |
| 18:44.36 | Pendalar | or it doesn't like my isp email =-/ |
| 18:44.46 | mewyn | works for me |
| 18:44.55 | Neo|Work | sugar heard mark |
| 18:44.55 | Sugar | Neo|Work: I last heard mark on IRC 46h 5m 39s ago in channel #zaurus saying: icefox: shush, you're slashdotted, you can't talk :P |
| 18:44.58 | Pendalar | well it blinks like I have new email, but when I load it up to look at it (even after downloading the folders) no mail is there |
| 18:45.15 | Pendalar | after I send a test email to it |
| 18:45.15 | Neo|Work | ibot seen mark |
| 18:45.19 | | mark <~mark@s.westcott.freeuk.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #zaurus, 1d 22h 6m 3s ago, saying: 'icefox: shush, you're slashdotted, you can't talk :P'. |
| 18:45.22 | Pendalar | so I know it's party working |
| 18:45.25 | mewyn | http://www.madison.com/wisconsinstatejournal/local/44829.php lol |
| 18:45.33 | mewyn | flaming power poles |
| 18:45.39 | *** join/#zaurus mtm (~mtmm@63.149.241.217) |
| 18:48.04 | Pendalar | does anyone know how to add hotmail as imap? I used to know before they changed their setup |
| 18:48.22 | Pendalar | I know it's still possible although they try to restrict it as a 'paid for' service |
| 18:59.47 | *** join/#zaurus Neo|Work (~neotron@207.188.30.40) |
| 18:59.47 | *** mode/#zaurus [+o Neo|Work] by ChanServ |
| 19:04.33 | *** join/#zaurus CeRIaL (~nobody@p50824B9E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:10.39 | *** join/#zaurus mark (~mark@s.westcott.freeuk.com) |
| 19:27.47 | *** join/#zaurus kergoth (~kergoth@c-66-41-34-199.mn.client2.attbi.com) |
| 19:28.04 | hardwire | snow snow snow snow snow |
| 19:28.07 | hardwire | snow snow snow |
| 19:28.08 | hardwire | SNOW |
| 19:28.16 | hardwire | SNOW! |
| 19:28.19 | kergoth | NO |
| 19:29.37 | *** join/#zaurus pjcj (pjcj@dclient217-162-93-78.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:33.23 | Pendalar | you guys may have missed my question : does anyone know how to add hotmail as imap? I used to know before they changed their setup |
| 19:33.31 | Pendalar | in the split thing |
| 19:34.41 | icefox | hardwire: where are you? |
| 19:34.55 | mandrake | btw, we're invading iraq: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/waroniraq/articles/3895393?source=Evening%20Standard |
| 19:35.05 | icefox | man snowing in helll |
| 19:35.33 | hardwire | icefox: fort collins colorado |
| 19:35.55 | icefox | hehe you know is is a war if there are maps with the diagnal lines |
| 19:36.41 | *** join/#zaurus kybu (kybu@212.89.236.85) |
| 19:36.57 | hardwire | eh? |
| 19:37.19 | icefox | http://images.thisislondon.co.uk/v2/news/kuwaitbordermapST190303_145x145.jpg |
| 19:40.53 | hardwire | so iraq decided to strike before bushes 48 hours were over? |
| 19:40.58 | hardwire | heheh |
| 19:43.24 | mandrake | hardwire: um, wrong side. |
| 19:43.39 | hardwire | flip over the website and read the other side? |
| 19:44.26 | Pendalar | heh, that's sad but I laughed anyways.. wonder if I need to get out of here for awhile... =-x |
| 19:44.40 | Pendalar | I'm starting to find internet humor funny again |
| 19:44.40 | hardwire | probably |
| 19:45.02 | mandrake | hardwire: no, I mean, the US invaded iraq. we began the fighting at Basra |
| 19:45.20 | *** join/#zaurus krezel[laptop] (~ItsME@udhcp-wlan23.public.engin.umich.edu) |
| 19:46.06 | krezel[laptop] | Is it possible to add libraries (id3lib in particular) to your Qtopia/Embedix cross-compiler setup so you can cross-compile with the libraries? |
| 19:46.22 | *** join/#zaurus maj1n (~maj1n@pD9E3DDBE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:46.36 | Pendalar | yey IceCast is giving me love |
| 19:46.38 | hardwire | mandrake: ok.. this article mentioned we were fired on in the no fly zone before we fired on them.. so it was just my impression |
| 19:47.01 | *** join/#zaurus kergoth_ (~kergoth@dsl081-228-056.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 19:47.08 | mandrake | except it has never been a sanctioned no fly zone, so that happens all the time |
| 19:47.09 | mandrake | heh |
| 19:47.13 | Pendalar | wb / die imposter , whichever |
| 19:47.51 | hardwire | yeah.. it does happen all the time.. but doing so right now would be an act of "ok.. here we go ;)" |
| 19:48.28 | mandrake | I don't think so, I think this has been planned. |
| 19:48.35 | hardwire | ok |
| 19:48.40 | *** join/#zaurus mtm (~mtmm@63.149.241.217) |
| 19:48.49 | hardwire | y |
| 19:49.15 | hardwire | I suppose thats why I asked a question ;) |
| 19:49.26 | Pendalar | it's my personal opinion that nothing exists outside the US, except apparently mexico due to the inbound.. and it's all a made-for-tv movie gone bad |
| 19:49.54 | Pendalar | although I guess that would rule out my .nl friends |
| 19:50.07 | hardwire | they are just internet entities |
| 19:50.16 | Pendalar | true.. clever AI |
| 19:50.28 | mandrake | that is a common interpretation of the world by most americans, sadly. |
| 19:50.39 | Pendalar | that is very possible, even the one I talked to on the phone.. could have been AI text2speech |
| 19:50.45 | Pendalar | was a joke mandrake |
| 19:50.54 | Neo|Work | and so it begins (soon) |
| 19:51.03 | mandrake | Neo|Work: no, it began. |
| 19:51.22 | Pendalar | no, we've done this before |
| 19:51.30 | Neo|Work | mandrake: partially |
| 19:51.48 | icefox | http://www.wirelesscables.com/ :-D |
| 19:51.50 | Neo|Work | mandrake: meaning I see no indiciation that there are cruise missile attacks ongoing for example |
| 19:51.56 | Pendalar | haha I care so little about this war I don't even know if it has a name |
| 19:52.02 | Pendalar | desert porn? |
| 19:52.10 | Neo|Work | heh |
| 19:52.15 | Neo|Work | I don't think I've ever heard a name |
| 19:52.19 | *** join/#zaurus mandrake (~mandrake@pipe.cepstral.com) |
| 19:52.23 | Neo|Work | Showdown: Iraq :P |
| 19:52.23 | Pendalar | icefox weird.. |
| 19:52.34 | icefox | wireless bluetooth over serial! |
| 19:52.35 | Pendalar | that's not a real war name |
| 19:52.36 | icefox | hahaha |
| 19:52.40 | Neo|Work | Pendalar: I know. :)) |
| 19:52.47 | icefox | lot less power then a wifi |
| 19:52.55 | Neo|Work | How about: Operation Fluffy Bunnies |
| 19:53.27 | Pendalar | I prefer Fluffy Fluffy Bun-bun ala ToonStruck |
| 19:53.35 | treke_ | Operation Bend Over Iraq |
| 19:53.43 | warmi | mandrake: it began ? |
| 19:53.51 | Pendalar | lol now that's alright treke |
| 19:53.58 | mandrake | http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/waroniraq/articles/3895393?source=Evening%20Standard |
| 19:54.32 | warmi | oh sf guys are alrady having their fun |
| 19:54.57 | Neo|Work | I wouldn't say it's a fullblown start, but certainly very close to it |
| 19:55.10 | *** join/#zaurus mandrake_ (~mandrake@pipe.cepstral.com) |
| 19:55.26 | Neo|Work | mandrake_: connection issues? :P |
| 19:55.34 | mandrake_ | piece of crap irc |
| 19:55.40 | mandrake | I hate opn so very very much |
| 19:55.44 | mandrake | Neo|Work: only to irc |
| 19:56.19 | warmi | mandrake: haven't seen anyone else confirm thisislondon story |
| 19:56.24 | warmi | but hey .. you never know |
| 19:57.14 | mandrake | warmi: it has been all over. |
| 19:57.23 | mandrake | that's just the first place I saw one |
| 19:57.51 | warmi | bbc doesn't mention anything yet |
| 19:57.56 | treke_ | http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/19/bill.of.rights/index.html <-- cool |
| 19:58.18 | *** join/#zaurus mandrake_ (~mandrake@pipe.cepstral.com) |
| 19:58.45 | mandrake_ | this network sucks |
| 20:01.23 | *** join/#zaurus mandrake__ (~mandrake@pipe.cepstral.com) |
| 20:07.31 | *** join/#zaurus kybu_ (kybu@212.89.236.85) |
| 20:08.10 | warmi | madrake: your geting kicked out by the server itself ? |
| 20:08.35 | warmi | looks to me like your isp problem (routing) |
| 20:10.59 | *** join/#zaurus rikkus (~rik@hemsley.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 20:11.00 | rikkus | hi |
| 20:11.13 | warmi | hi |
| 20:11.36 | krezel[laptop] | How do you get a listing of what options g++ has for -l (what libraries are installed?) |
| 20:11.58 | rikkus | krezel[laptop]: ls /lib /usr/lib /usr/local/lib |
| 20:12.50 | krezel[laptop] | rikkus: the options would be like libqpe... = -lqpe ? |
| 20:12.51 | rikkus | Small problem with my package.postinst script.. I create some symlinks from the RAM filesystem to the one on the SD card (or wherever the package was installed, assuming it wasn't in RAM.) |
| 20:12.52 | *** join/#zaurus mewyn (~mike@dsl081-228-057.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:12.56 | rikkus | krezel[laptop]: yes |
| 20:12.58 | krezel[laptop] | ah ok |
| 20:13.04 | rikkus | the problem is, the symlinks aren't created |
| 20:13.20 | rikkus | but I echo the commands before I do them, saving that output to /tmp/log |
| 20:13.29 | rikkus | and run the ln command with >>/tmp/log 2>&1 |
| 20:13.35 | rikkus | and there's no error gievn |
| 20:13.50 | rikkus | if I run the commands manually (not letting ipkg run my script) then the links appear fine |
| 20:14.01 | rikkus | ipkg doesn't seem to chroot or anything and my log looks fine. |
| 20:14.06 | *** join/#zaurus mewyn` (~mike@dsl081-228-057.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:14.45 | rikkus | from what I can tell, ipkg isn't doing anything special with postinst scripts, just running them |
| 20:15.19 | kergoth | hey rikkus |
| 20:15.23 | rikkus | kergoth: hi |
| 20:15.24 | kergoth | how ya been? |
| 20:15.29 | rikkus | busy :) |
| 20:15.35 | rikkus | you? |
| 20:15.37 | kergoth | same |
| 20:17.57 | rikkus | doh |
| 20:18.13 | rikkus | $LINK $LINK_ARGS "$INSTALLED_PREFIX/$LIBRARY_NAME.$VERSION"\ "$RAM_PREFIX/$LIBRARY_NAME.$MAJOR" >>/tmp/log 2>&1 || exit 1 |
| 20:18.48 | rikkus | that's a cunning one |
| 20:19.29 | *** join/#zaurus Shadye (~shevett@patriot.intuit.com) |
| 20:19.31 | Shadye | 'lo folks. |
| 20:19.34 | *** join/#zaurus bobbyd (bobbyd@pc2-broo3-3-cust188.renf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:30.51 | Shadye | hey, i need to re-sync my Z, but i've misplaced the CD. should i just pull the 'distribution cd' from the zaurus site, or is there a simpler way to get things on and off the poor beast? |
| 20:38.08 | *** join/#zaurus mikey-mmth (~Michael@w206.z064000227.nyc-ny.dsl.cnc.net) |
| 20:39.48 | gabe | do you have to have a CF card to flash the rom on the zaurus? |
| 20:41.46 | icefox | yes |
| 20:42.09 | gabe | so how does that work? you stick a rom image on the flash card on your pc and then stick it in the zaurus? |
| 20:44.03 | rikkus | gabe: yes |
| 20:44.26 | kergoth | damnit, i keep expecting windows to have focus follows mouse |
| 20:44.29 | kergoth | and typing shit in the wrong windows |
| 20:44.41 | krezel[laptop] | heh |
| 20:44.44 | krezel[laptop] | TweakUI |
| 20:44.46 | gabe | ok. so i can just get a 64MB CF card for flashing the rom, and get a larger (256/512MB) SF card for storing my files, is that cool? |
| 20:44.54 | krezel[laptop] | the only way I survived windows as long as I did |
| 20:46.15 | rikkus | yes, but you don't need 2 cards |
| 20:46.19 | Titeuf | re |
| 20:46.33 | rikkus | just back up the card a couple of times before putting the ROM on for flashing |
| 20:47.11 | gabe | well, i'm going to use a bunch of CF devices constantly, so i dont want to have to swap out the CF flash card all the time |
| 20:47.39 | gabe | it seems like the best way to have concurrant large file storage and wireless access / gps is to use an SD card for data |
| 20:48.44 | *** join/#zaurus erikd (yodatoad@207.250.124.137) |
| 20:50.00 | rikkus | game: probably, except that SD is very slow to write to |
| 20:50.08 | gabe | hm |
| 20:50.26 | gabe | indeed |
| 20:50.34 | rikkus | twice the price, 1/10 the speed |
| 20:50.43 | gabe | i dont suppose there are any products one can use to turn one CF slot into two? |
| 20:50.47 | Neo|Work | I think we all would |
| 20:50.58 | Neo|Work | unfortunately there must be technical issues with it |
| 20:51.08 | rikkus | well, yes, there's not enough room :) |
| 20:51.20 | gabe | damn |
| 20:52.29 | mark | Neo|Work: heh, nice |
| 20:52.32 | Neo|Work | rikkus: duh, other than that |
| 20:53.22 | *** join/#zaurus levi (~levi@ash.lnxi.com) |
| 20:53.44 | *** join/#zaurus mike__ (~mike@dsl081-228-057.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:54.38 | tux_mike | grumble |
| 20:58.30 | mikey-mmth | Do any of you with Zaurus experience now wish that you had gone with another device? |
| 20:58.46 | kergoth | nope |
| 20:58.56 | kergoth | though I wish sharp wouldve fucked up less |
| 20:59.40 | mark | ditto to kergoth, but i mainly wish they'd sold more :) |
| 21:00.27 | kergoth | failing to properly market the product falls neatly into 'fucked up' |
| 21:00.29 | kergoth | ;) |
| 21:00.45 | mikey-mmth | if i were getting one soon, should I go with the 5500 or wait till the 700 comes to USA |
| 21:01.17 | kergoth | in my personal opinion, i'd say go with a c700 from conics now |
| 21:02.10 | mikey-mmth | Will the CF devices have to be remade or will they all fit into the 700 (like the wireless and GPS stuff)? |
| 21:02.57 | mikey-mmth | kergoth: what is "conics" |
| 21:03.51 | kergoth | shop.conics.net |
| 21:04.04 | mikey-mmth | kerg:thanks |
| 21:04.30 | kergoth | np |
| 21:06.08 | mark | kergoth: heh, yeah, i thought you meant the technical side complete fuck up :) |
| 21:07.10 | kergoth | that too :) |
| 21:07.19 | *** join/#zaurus mtm2 (~mtmm@63.149.241.217) |
| 21:07.49 | *** join/#zaurus tux_mike (~mike@dsl081-228-057.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 21:09.16 | mikey-mmth | thanks all, later. . . |
| 21:09.40 | gabe | indeed |
| 21:10.05 | gabe | so, how fast (slow) are SD / MMC cards? |
| 21:10.15 | gaurdian | fast enough for me.... |
| 21:10.46 | gaurdian | I dont know exact speed, but they work fine for me |
| 21:11.15 | gabe | i really care more about read speed |
| 21:11.33 | gabe | i'd probably use SD for mp3s and other data |
| 21:11.50 | gabe | the only speed reference i've seen was like 2MB/s for sandisk's SD cards |
| 21:11.59 | gabe | and that didn't specify read/write |
| 21:12.42 | gaurdian | I use SD for programs and such, my SD never leaves my Z actually, the CF I have (128) right now is for flashing and MP3's |
| 21:13.37 | *** join/#zaurus caffeine (~khedspet@216-187-196-82.dsl.btitelecom.net) |
| 21:18.14 | *** join/#zaurus treke|home (~ggilbert@lsanca2-ar29-4-41-064-239.lsanca2.elnk.dsl.genuity.net) |
| 21:25.44 | *** join/#zaurus Leaves (Leif@d141-185-136.home.cgocable.net) |
| 21:29.48 | *** join/#zaurus mark (~mark@s.westcott.freeuk.com) |
| 21:29.51 | mark | damn xchat |
| 21:30.33 | raceme | great i found underground maps on a website but maps are for PalmOS (Fireviewer app) or PocketPC (flash 4)... :( |
| 21:32.21 | *** join/#zaurus PorkySpine (~PorkySpin@0000000553-0000941735.dial.net4b.pt) |
| 21:32.49 | ginsu | raceme: what about metro (for palm) with the pose? |
| 21:33.05 | *** join/#zaurus RealisticDragon (~peu@dsl-217-155-88-202.zen.co.uk) |
| 21:33.07 | RealisticDragon | hey |
| 21:33.36 | *** part/#zaurus aseigo (~aseigo@209.115.237.101) |
| 21:33.55 | RealisticDragon | im tring to install opie-irc on my zaurus and its asking for qpe-base, which i cant find anywhere (no direct net access from the z)... any ideas? |
| 21:34.07 | raceme | ginsu: pose ? what is that ? |
| 21:34.14 | ginsu | palm os emulator |
| 21:34.58 | ginsu | http://www.climov.com/zaurus/qpose/ |
| 21:35.10 | raceme | ginsu: seems great... |
| 21:35.20 | *** join/#zaurus Novas007 (mike@levy.res.WPI.NET) |
| 21:35.39 | RealisticDragon | this is running 3.1 btw |
| 21:36.34 | raceme | ginsu: i'll have a look... thanks |
| 21:36.54 | ginsu | http://www.palmblvd.com/software/pc/Metro-2003-1-14-palm-pc.html |
| 21:36.54 | treke|home | RealisticDragon: --foroce-depdns |
| 21:37.10 | RealisticDragon | ah, figures, ty |
| 21:41.45 | *** join/#zaurus treke|home (~ggilbert@lsanca2-ar29-4-41-064-239.lsanca2.elnk.dsl.genuity.net) |
| 21:43.11 | *** part/#zaurus RealisticDragon (~peu@dsl-217-155-88-202.zen.co.uk) |
| 21:44.04 | *** join/#zaurus porky_ (~PorkySpin@213.58.33.135) |
| 21:45.14 | raceme | ginsu: this is what i'll try to install: http://www.citefutee.fr/orienter/plans.php# |
| 21:47.39 | ginsu | raceme: looks very cool. Are you french? If so I apologize for the idiocy of my countrymen. |
| 21:50.17 | mspencer | I second the apology for the idiocy of my fellow Americans...wow, dare to be the voice of reason and you get teased and mocked by the higher levels of our government. X__X |
| 21:50.28 | raceme | ginsu: i am french and there is no need to apologize :) |
| 21:51.01 | raceme | ginsu: we don't like our president either but, for once, he has a good idea... at least one time in his life :) |
| 21:51.06 | ginsu | hehehe |
| 21:52.05 | raceme | in fact i don't follow news since weeks so i am not vey aware about last events... even if i heard about almost there war :( |
| 21:52.16 | ginsu | as long as we can all seperate the desires of the "little people" from the actions of their (our) leaders I think we can all get along |
| 21:53.21 | gaurdian | mspencer , ahem......your appology doesnt represent me at all. |
| 21:53.37 | gaurdian | it may represent SOME americans, but by no means all |
| 21:54.27 | *** part/#zaurus ginsu (~jbarratt@lsanca1-ar23-4-63-046-170.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 21:55.04 | raceme | you know as most of french (and european) think that this not justified to make a war in irak, people perfectly know that saddam is a <censored> and that france has interests in irak too... |
| 21:55.58 | gaurdian | actually, its pretty common knowledge that about 25% of Franc's international trade is with Iraq |
| 21:56.31 | gaurdian | and that France, Germany and Russia have multi billion dollar contracts to develop Iraq's oil fields |
| 21:56.35 | raceme | 25% ? i really don't think this is so high... but there is good trades yes |
| 21:56.44 | gaurdian | Yes about 25% |
| 21:57.10 | treke|home | hmm. I'd be really surprised if it was that high |
| 21:57.26 | gaurdian | but..I am not goin into polotics here :) I have nothing against the French people, the govt...now..thats aneother story |
| 21:58.20 | raceme | all that is tractations that leave us all behind... like french and german delegations that has been bugged in a european meeting recently... |
| 21:59.03 | raceme | qpose installed! |
| 22:02.04 | Com[Plex] | hahaha |
| 22:02.08 | Com[Plex] | poor verizon |
| 22:02.12 | gaurdian | ? |
| 22:02.29 | gaurdian | what about verizon ? |
| 22:04.09 | Com[Plex] | they call up, ask for my roomate, Im like "hes not here, can I take a messaqe" and hes like "thjis is just a courtesy call, when would be a good time to call back?" and uim like "courtesy call from whom?" he says "verizon" and I say "you gonna try to sell us dsl?" hahah. he says "yeah" I say "can you give us 32 static ip addressess and a 7.1sdsl? cuz thats what we got right now" |
| 22:04.11 | Com[Plex] | *click* |
| 22:04.16 | *** join/#zaurus Aridhol (Aridhol@h24-69-29-177.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 22:05.02 | kergoth | hah |
| 22:05.20 | Com[Plex] | I lied, our uploads only 3.1 |
| 22:05.33 | Aridhol | Does anyone in here know where i can get a zaurus 5500 in canada? sharp.ca doesn't even have them, i've almost given up on a canadian retailer |
| 22:07.31 | raceme | is there a -t (test) switch on unzip from busybox ? |
| 22:10.46 | gabe | Aridhol: coax an american friend into getting one from hsn.com for you? |
| 22:11.05 | kergoth | hsn.com is sold out |
| 22:11.12 | kergoth | read the topic |
| 22:11.13 | kergoth | heh |
| 22:11.18 | gabe | really? heh |
| 22:11.31 | Aridhol | yeah i tried that and my friend was like they're gone dude |
| 22:11.35 | gabe | maybe that's why it took them so long to process my order |
| 22:11.48 | Aridhol | stupid slashdot |
| 22:11.51 | gabe | hehe |
| 22:12.03 | gabe | the slashdot effect is good for business ;) |
| 22:12.04 | Aridhol | but now i want to get one |
| 22:12.15 | gabe | i'd check on ebay i guess |
| 22:12.25 | Aridhol | but i''m trying not to spend more than $450 canadian |
| 22:12.29 | Aridhol | ebay has nothing at all |
| 22:12.40 | gabe | there'll probably be some folks reselling them there, or those who realized they didn't really need it and want to get rid of it |
| 22:13.02 | Aridhol | i checked today, the only one is this sl one with 2MB memory |
| 22:15.22 | gabe | 2mb? |
| 22:15.54 | Aridhol | this is the onyl zaurus on ebay http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3013762900&category=15030 |
| 22:18.22 | gabe | wow |
| 22:18.55 | rikkus | on board ram 2M? |
| 22:19.10 | rikkus | oh one of them |
| 22:20.30 | gabe | no way, there's a crap load on ebay. search for "zaurus sl-5500" |
| 22:20.55 | Aridhol | i just did a search for zaurus, does it matter that it's ebay.ca? |
| 22:21.08 | gabe | oh |
| 22:21.10 | gabe | heh |
| 22:21.53 | Aridhol | doh yeah it does |
| 22:21.56 | Aridhol | damn thanks |
| 22:22.33 | rikkus | heh, people with 'buy it now' for $300 on the Z, but it's only $200 new... |
| 22:22.35 | gabe | yeah, i just did a refined search for items that are available in canada and there were a bunch |
| 22:23.18 | gabe | what the heck are all of these "info 4free sharp zaurus" or powerbook things? people selling "tips" on how to get them for free? what the heck? |
| 22:23.30 | rikkus | scame |
| 22:23.32 | rikkus | scams |
| 22:25.42 | Aridhol | thanks gabe i should have thought of that |
| 22:27.19 | gabe | Aridhol: no problemo. just get one and join the fun! ;) |
| 22:27.51 | *** join/#zaurus mtm (~mtmm@63.149.241.217) |
| 22:28.21 | Aridhol | i hope i will find one i can afford => |
| 22:28.40 | rikkus | Aridhol: how much can you afford? |
| 22:28.53 | Aridhol | i have a question can lynx be put on the zaurus to read htm(l) format books? |
| 22:29.26 | treke_ | yes. so can qtreader which works much better |
| 22:29.30 | Aridhol | I can spend like $450 canadian but i'm looking to spend less if possible because i want to grab an 802.11 card for it too |
| 22:29.32 | raceme | mmm... qpose doesn't work... EmWindow::WindowReset() Loading of image 'MaximizeButton' is not ideal (either it doesn't exist or an extension was specified) |
| 22:30.33 | rikkus | Aridhol: a new zaurus is a USD 200 |
| 22:30.50 | Aridhol | really? where at? |
| 22:31.05 | Aridhol | amazon has em for $499 USD |
| 22:31.12 | rikkus | hehe, they're out of date :) |
| 22:31.28 | *** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-435182be.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 22:31.29 | rikkus | I was looking at a site yesterday... seemed perfectly legit, just reduced the price a lot recently |
| 22:31.57 | rikkus | seems to have dropped out my history, I'll ask the person who gave me the URL for it again |
| 22:31.58 | Aridhol | ops now it's $347 |
| 22:32.15 | Aridhol | was it hsn.com heh? |
| 22:32.19 | TheMasterMind1 | yes |
| 22:32.20 | rikkus | dunno |
| 22:32.50 | rikkus | don't recognise that site |
| 22:34.09 | *** join/#zaurus bobbyd (bobbyd@pc2-broo3-3-cust188.renf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:34.26 | bobbyd | hi |
| 22:35.42 | bobbyd | has anyone here done qtopia dev for the zaurus under windows? i hace cygwin installed, but i'm not sure how to install teh rpm's from here: http://docs.zaurus.com/linux_compiler_setup_howto.shtml |
| 22:36.00 | *** join/#zaurus lsmith (~vandal@p213.54.9.62.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 22:36.04 | kergoth | bobbyd: those rpms are useless to you in cygwin. |
| 22:36.20 | kergoth | bobbyd: you would need to ubild a dev env from source in cygwin |
| 22:36.26 | *** join/#zaurus levi (~levi@ash.lnxi.com) |
| 22:37.46 | bobbyd | hmm |
| 22:37.52 | bobbyd | doesnt sound like fun |
| 22:38.07 | bobbyd | but it should work right? |
| 22:38.11 | warmi | bobbyd: you wanna code on Windows ? |
| 22:38.15 | bobbyd | yes |
| 22:38.37 | bobbyd | i currently have my win32, ps2, GBA and gp32 setups on windows |
| 22:39.13 | bobbyd | i want to port an app i'm developing to the zaurus |
| 22:39.17 | warmi | uh .. I don't think it is possible at this point - I mean , you could probably manage to crosscompile stuff but I you won't be able to use qvfb (pseudo-emulator) .. |
| 22:39.22 | warmi | pain in the ass if you ask me |
| 22:39.31 | kergoth | cygwin has x |
| 22:39.41 | kergoth | in theory.. |
| 22:39.49 | warmi | will qt compile under cygwin ? |
| 22:39.53 | kergoth | I havent even built a arm crosscompiler for cygwin, much less the rest |
| 22:39.53 | raceme | nobody running qpose around there ? |
| 22:39.53 | kergoth | :) |
| 22:40.22 | bobbyd | gah |
| 22:40.32 | warmi | bobbyd: you don't have an access to a Linux box ? |
| 22:40.34 | bobbyd | i think i'll just stick linux on here |
| 22:40.40 | bobbyd | i hate dual booting |
| 22:40.44 | warmi | I used to develop on Windows using qt for windows |
| 22:40.46 | bobbyd | always ends in a mess... |
| 22:41.05 | warmi | and just was doing final cross-compile on my Linux box |
| 22:41.19 | yeiazel | bobbyd: do you really need windows ? :) |
| 22:41.29 | bobbyd | is all the source compatible with qt/windows? |
| 22:41.45 | warmi | bobbyd: 99% - the only thing I had to change is QApplication to QPEApplication |
| 22:41.52 | bobbyd | ahh ok cool |
| 22:41.56 | bobbyd | i'll just go for that |
| 22:42.04 | bobbyd | i have access to a linux box over the net |
| 22:42.06 | warmi | and of corse qt-windows doesn't have Qtopia specific classes like Config etc .. but that'sminor |
| 22:42.10 | bobbyd | i'll cross compile there |
| 22:42.21 | bobbyd | ; |
| 22:42.22 | bobbyd | ) |
| 22:42.46 | warmi | what I do is basically use Microsoft VC++ to develop qte for windows app ( I make sure to size my app window to 240x320 size) and that's about it |
| 22:42.56 | PorkySpine | by the way... does any one tried to install qtopia from the tar.gz? I followed evrry instructions, and it failed... |
| 22:43.21 | kergoth | PorkySpine: s/qtopia/qtopia _desktop_/? |
| 22:43.34 | bobbyd | kergoth: dont you have my c700 version of OZ done yet? :) how much am i paying you! oh, i'm not, ok then, take all the time you want ;) |
| 22:43.44 | PorkySpine | i can compile qt-embedded 3.0.5, qt-x11, but not qtopia |
| 22:44.03 | treke_ | PorkySpine: use qt 2.3 |
| 22:44.08 | PorkySpine | kergoth: qtopia qtopia :) |
| 22:44.09 | kergoth | PorkySpine: eh, you do realize qtopia on the Z uses qt 2.3.x right? |
| 22:44.15 | kergoth | :) |
| 22:44.26 | kergoth | what treke said |
| 22:44.27 | kergoth | heh |
| 22:45.28 | PorkySpine | kergoth: ok... i just want to make a program i have been thinking... |
| 22:45.41 | PorkySpine | kergoth: what should i compile?? |
| 22:45.51 | kergoth | what part of 'use qt 2.3' dont you understand? |
| 22:45.53 | kergoth | seems fairly simple to me |
| 22:46.11 | kergoth | ditch qt-embedded 3.0.5 and use qt-embedded 2.3.4 |
| 22:46.16 | PorkySpine | kergoth: qt and qt-embedded |
| 22:46.21 | kergoth | eh? |
| 22:46.25 | PorkySpine | ? |
| 22:46.26 | kergoth | qtopia doesnt build against qt/x11 |
| 22:46.29 | *** join/#zaurus zoid (zoid@nr9-216-68-182-1.fuse.net) |
| 22:46.33 | kergoth | it builds against qt/embedded |
| 22:46.37 | kergoth | and you want qt/embedded 2.3.x |
| 22:46.40 | zoid | i'm trying to decide if i should get a 256mb sd card or a 128mb mmc card for my zaurus (since they're the same price)...suggestions? |
| 22:46.51 | treke_ | PorkySpine: Use QT Embedded 2.3.4 |
| 22:47.04 | PorkySpine | kergoth: Ok. |
| 22:47.23 | kergoth | fuck i need to walk outside and get some fresh air before i beat the shit out of someone |
| 22:48.05 | warmi | hehehe |
| 22:48.25 | warmi | uh .. I would go for 256 MB SD ... |
| 22:48.28 | gabe | smart media is different from SD/MMC, right? |
| 22:48.35 | treke_ | yes |
| 22:48.36 | zoid | gabe: yes |
| 22:48.37 | warmi | both are slower then CF |
| 22:48.41 | gabe | heh |
| 22:48.46 | warmi | but 256 is obviously better then 128 |
| 22:48.47 | warmi | hehe |
| 22:48.57 | erikd | hallooooooooooooo people |
| 22:48.57 | *** join/#zaurus mutexer (~spock@adsl-34-170-49.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 22:49.03 | zoid | well i've already got a 256mb cf card for my digi cam, but if i use it i can't use my linksys wireless cf card |
| 22:49.08 | gabe | if the read speed on SD was good enough i'd rather use that for mp3s/ebooks and such |
| 22:49.11 | erikd | long day at work =/ |
| 22:49.19 | warmi | zoid: yeah .. I wish Z had two CF ports instead of CF/SD combo |
| 22:49.28 | PorkySpine | treke: its just that in the README, they say i must compile qt-embedded, qt, and only then qtopia... |
| 22:49.30 | zoid | how do mp3's play off of sd cards? |
| 22:49.30 | mutexer | I need to capture an avi video of my application. Anyone know how to do this with the Zaurus or with the framebuffer in linux? |
| 22:49.37 | warmi | erikd: at work every day is a long day |
| 22:49.44 | gabe | can you not play mp3s off of SD? |
| 22:49.44 | erikd | nah |
| 22:49.48 | erikd | usually it's fun |
| 22:49.49 | warmi | zoid: fine |
| 22:49.54 | erikd | today's just been boring |
| 22:49.56 | zoid | kewl, just makin' sure :) |
| 22:50.08 | erikd | spent all day building a box and recompiling kernels |
| 22:50.27 | gabe | mutexer: why not run the VNC server on it and capture the VNC stream on another computer? |
| 22:50.28 | zoid | although i would like to get a zthincable still |
| 22:50.44 | gabe | we did that to make a demo of our product at one company i worked for |
| 22:50.58 | warmi | zoid: where are you , in US ? |
| 22:51.04 | zoid | warmi: yeah |
| 22:51.29 | mutexer | gabe: do you know of a capture program I can use on the VNC? |
| 22:51.50 | mutexer | I cant find any capture programs at all.. except for one that captures opengl and direct3d output |
| 22:52.00 | warmi | as far as I remember qvfb can save movies of some sorts |
| 22:52.06 | mutexer | it can? |
| 22:52.18 | warmi | well, I remember seeing a menu item like that |
| 22:52.25 | warmi | but I have never tried it |
| 22:52.29 | zoid | warmi: why did you ask if i was in the US? (just curious) :) |
| 22:52.31 | gabe | mutexer: this is what i found: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/extras.html#rfbproxy |
| 22:53.37 | warmi | zoid: just wondering if that war etc .. will affect international orders/mail etc . |
| 22:53.48 | mutexer | gabe: what format does this capture too? |
| 22:53.56 | gabe | i have no idea :/ |
| 22:54.29 | zoid | warmi: no clue, they'll prolly be delayed for sure though |
| 22:54.39 | warmi | yeah, I guess |
| 22:54.49 | zoid | are their any other companies that sell the zthincable? |
| 22:55.05 | zoid | cuz i don't really feel like paying $40, heh |
| 22:55.17 | warmi | you want that for syncing or some other purpose ? |
| 22:55.32 | zoid | synching and recharging |
| 22:55.40 | zoid | recharging mainly |
| 22:55.54 | zoid | network will work over it too, correct? |
| 22:56.15 | warmi | recharging ?? |
| 22:56.30 | zoid | warmi: yeah, it can recharge your battery through the usb port |
| 22:56.46 | Titeuf | bye |
| 22:56.50 | warmi | well, if you want a network then go for CF Etherner card - you can get one for about $20 and will be much faster than serial |
| 22:57.03 | warmi | bye titeuf |
| 22:57.19 | zoid | warmi: kewl, how long do you think the battery lasts under normal use? |
| 22:57.33 | warmi | with CF ethernet card ? |
| 22:57.43 | zoid | yeah |
| 22:58.12 | warmi | well, if your Z is hooked to the network then you might as well hook it to the power supply :-) |
| 22:58.44 | zoid | warmi: well i'd rather not have to take my cradle/power supply to work with me all the time |
| 22:58.50 | warmi | but to answer your question, 1.5-2 hours max |
| 22:58.55 | zoid | is it worth buying an extra battery? |
| 22:59.04 | *** join/#zaurus pjcj (pjcj@dclient217-162-93-78.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:59.12 | warmi | CF network cards wired or wireless are pretty bad as far as power consumption |
| 22:59.18 | rikkus | probably worth buying an extra power supply instead |
| 22:59.41 | gabe | someone mentioned yesterday that you can use the 5600's battery in the 5500 |
| 22:59.47 | gabe | that may provide more lifetime |
| 22:59.51 | warmi | yeah |
| 22:59.55 | rikkus | the battery lasts 7.5h if you're just playing mp3s with the screen off |
| 23:00.14 | zoid | i didn't know the 5600's battery could be used |
| 23:00.18 | zoid | nice |
| 23:00.27 | warmi | gabe are you sure ? |
| 23:00.37 | nerdboy | warmi: how about a usb power cable? |
| 23:00.58 | zoid | nerdboy: that's what i want, but i just didn't wanna pay $40 :) |
| 23:01.04 | warmi | nerdboy: I don't know |
| 23:01.17 | zoid | nerdboy: you're referring to the zthincable, correct? |
| 23:01.33 | *** join/#zaurus mewyn (~mike@dsl081-228-057.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 23:01.49 | nerdboy | zoid: i thought the package deal was $40-50, with usb, auto, and everything |
| 23:02.01 | zoid | nerdboy: hmm, really? where at? |
| 23:02.12 | zoid | nerdboy: cuz the zthincable itself from serialio is $40 |
| 23:02.19 | nerdboy | zoid: just a usb power-leech cable |
| 23:02.55 | zoid | nerdboy: where's that sold at? |
| 23:03.37 | nerdboy | checking for url... |
| 23:06.01 | *** join/#zaurus djk_ (~djk@ool-435182be.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:16.18 | mutexer | well, qvfb can capture to a mng.. but it doesnt seem to work... it only captures when you move the mouse.. and then it grabs only small portions |
| 23:16.31 | nerdboy | still looking, but one package i saw was at mobileplanet.com |
| 23:17.27 | warmi | mutexer: oh well ... so vnc is the only other option :-) |
| 23:18.43 | mutexer | I dont even know how to setup vnc though :( |
| 23:21.38 | warmi | mutexer: install ipkg on the zaurus and then install vnc viewer on your desktop machine |
| 23:21.53 | mutexer | hook them through the usb cradle? |
| 23:21.58 | warmi | there is not much there to set up anyway |
| 23:22.29 | warmi | well, yeah - my asumption was that you have a working tcp/ip connection between your Z and the desktop machine |
| 23:22.30 | mutexer | any vnc viewer for the desktop or does the ipkg need a certain one? |
| 23:22.45 | treke_ | mutexer: any should work |
| 23:22.49 | warmi | I think any viewer will do |
| 23:22.50 | mutexer | k |
| 23:23.05 | mutexer | Ill give that a try.. thanks |
| 23:24.05 | warmi | mutexer: btw .. after you install vnc server on your Z ( ipkg) - reboot the zaurus |
| 23:24.31 | warmi | otherwise your virtual mouse won't work |
| 23:24.43 | warmi | I don't know why it is like that but I know that reboot works :-) |
| 23:26.02 | mewyn | hrm |
| 23:26.03 | mutexer | k |
| 23:26.15 | *** join/#zaurus nikki (nikki@202.57.89.29) |
| 23:26.16 | mewyn | i'm gonna need to look at this new microcontroller during break |
| 23:27.57 | mewyn | warmi: did you manage to see wolak? |
| 23:31.21 | warmi | no, I haven't seen him whole day |
| 23:32.00 | *** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-435182be.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:32.13 | mewyn | have you heard about how many are getting shipped off? |
| 23:32.49 | warmi | you mean Army reserve guys working for Tribune ? |
| 23:33.11 | warmi | I think only 10 or so |
| 23:33.21 | mewyn | hrm |
| 23:33.49 | kergoth`bbl | ~lart digi |
| 23:34.30 | Neo|Work | morning |
| 23:34.49 | warmi | uh ? |
| 23:35.10 | Neo|Work | universal "hello" phrase |
| 23:35.18 | Neo|Work | I just got bac from my mtg. so :P |
| 23:35.20 | Neo|Work | morning! |
| 23:35.50 | treke_ | thats a long ass meeting |
| 23:35.56 | kergoth`bbl | heh |
| 23:36.08 | treke_ | would I be correct in guessing it was utterly useless? |
| 23:36.49 | Neo|Work | actually, not this time |
| 23:40.37 | mutexer | anyone setup the cradle in gentoo? |
| 23:41.50 | treke_ | Neo|Work: I've got this theory that meetings over an hour and a half long are usually useless |
| 23:41.54 | *** join/#zaurus bobbyd (bobbyd@pc2-broo3-3-cust188.renf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 23:42.20 | bobbyd | hi, does anyone know a free app for windows that will recompress mpeg files? |
| 23:43.12 | nerdboy | zoid: here's the usb cabel for $10 |
| 23:43.16 | nerdboy | http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?sku=C184-27321 |
| 23:43.16 | mspencer | I think there was something on docs.zaurus.com about it |
| 23:43.30 | mspencer | I'd rather have a USB cabal. |
| 23:43.44 | krezel | bobbyd: I think VirtualDub will do that |
| 23:44.40 | mutexer | nevermind.. I just didnt have the module compiled in |
| 23:45.12 | mspencer | when shown my C700: <lady at WalMart> "What is that, a mini laptop?" |
| 23:45.32 | mspencer | "Yeah, we used to have memory cards for those things, but I don't think we do any more. If we did they'd be right over here..." |
| 23:45.38 | bobbyd | mspencer: do you hace gcc running on your c700? |
| 23:45.42 | mspencer | yes |
| 23:45.45 | krezel | If I want to compile libraries for my cross compilier (using the Qtopia package), should the prefix be /opt/Qtopia/ or /opt/Qtopia/sharp/ ? |
| 23:45.54 | bobbyd | how did you install it, where did you get it from? |
| 23:45.59 | mspencer | my first ever .c program compiled on the C700: http://mspencer.net/stuff/c700zgcc.jpg |
| 23:46.13 | mspencer | I think I got it from externe.net and it took some tinkering to install it. |
| 23:46.29 | mspencer | Had to resort to something I don't ever like doing: mount -o remount,rw / |
| 23:46.43 | bobbyd | mspencer: did you write the info on my wikki? |
| 23:46.49 | mspencer | yes I did :) |
| 23:46.58 | bobbyd | i thought so, thanks |
| 23:47.10 | mspencer | the long text about converting? Yeah, that was me :) |
| 23:47.18 | bobbyd | mspencer: i organised it a bit ;) |
| 23:47.19 | nerdboy | 4 in 1 charging kit, even says zaurus compatible... |
| 23:47.23 | nerdboy | http://www.mobileplanet.com/shopanywhere/product.asp?dept%5Fid=3702&pf%5Fid=MP301700 |
| 23:47.34 | bobbyd | i have a (not very full) dev section now ;) |
| 23:47.51 | mspencer | cool -- it can probably use some editing and tidying up -- feel free to do whatever. Maybe someone should even write a howto on editing text files and whatnot -- I didn't feel like it... |
| 23:47.56 | bobbyd | mspencer: what did you need to do, i have the gcc file on my zaurus, but it wont let me execute it |
| 23:48.08 | mspencer | did you install the ipk? |
| 23:48.12 | bobbyd | mspencer: you mean under vi? |
| 23:48.15 | mspencer | right |
| 23:48.24 | bobbyd | mspencer: it wouldnt install the ipk, nothing showed up... |
| 23:48.40 | mspencer | Create a location 'card' or 'cf' in ipkg.conf and install to there with -d cf or -d card |
| 23:49.04 | mspencer | it'll unpack and install just fine, but will then complain about 'operation not permitted' linking a bunch of things into the root filesystem. |
| 23:49.20 | bobbyd | ok |
| 23:49.24 | mspencer | basically, all that's missing then is either doing what I SHOULD have done, just create a config.site file with the new locations... |
| 23:49.58 | mspencer | or do what I actually did (which is a bit risky) -- remount the / directory read-write and ln -s the sd card directories to the actual locations gcc expects to find things. |
| 23:50.32 | *** join/#zaurus brent_Z (~zChat@207.199.107.122) |
| 23:50.50 | bobbyd | you're a nutter |
| 23:50.52 | bobbyd | ;) |
| 23:51.08 | *** join/#zaurus br33zy (~br33zy@dt0f7n86.san.rr.com) |
| 23:51.16 | mspencer | that isn't a common American english term -- but I'm guessing it means 'to be crazy'... |
| 23:51.22 | bobbyd | indeed |
| 23:51.32 | mspencer | ah, naruhodo. |
| 23:51.45 | bobbyd | one can be said to be 'off ones nut' |
| 23:51.53 | bobbyd | one's nut being their head |
| 23:51.58 | mspencer | gotcha |
| 23:53.15 | mspencer | erm "how laughable a sight" |
| 23:54.29 | bobbyd | i have a japanese friend, i'll ask her to try it and report back ;) |
| 23:55.29 | mspencer | well, for it to be funny she'd probably have to be communicating with someone else, both of them understanding what each-other was saying...^__^ |
| 23:55.54 | mspencer | Non-businessman Japanese people rock :) |
| 23:56.27 | bobbyd | yeah, she's funny :) |
| 23:56.55 | mspencer | what does she think of your C700? :) |
| 23:57.41 | bobbyd | she likes it |
| 23:57.58 | *** join/#zaurus ljp (~ljp@tz0072.peakpeak.com) |
| 23:57.58 | bobbyd | but she's more interested in me helping her with her website! |
| 23:58.13 | bobbyd | i dispise vi |
| 23:58.22 | bobbyd | despise even |
| 23:58.28 | treke_ | bobbyd: poor guy |
| 23:58.45 | bobbyd | i'm going to compile pico |
| 23:58.56 | mspencer | You can even put apache/php/mysql on your C700, make a change, and demonstrate it to her ^__^ |
| 23:59.10 | mspencer | good luck man -- I'm still missing 'ar' and the 'ncurses' compile requires that... |
| 23:59.30 | bobbyd | oh |
| 23:59.51 | bobbyd | is it possible to invoke th e'text editor' from the command line? |
