irclog2html for #zaurus on 20030305

`00:00.22`	`*** join/#zaurus Leaves (Leif@d141-185-136.home.cgocable.net)`
`00:05.13`	`*** join/#zaurus br33zy (~br33zy@dt0f7n86.san.rr.com)`
`00:07.55`	`*** join/#zaurus [MiniMe] (~[MiniMe]@216-73-109-110.ocdc-01.net)`
`00:25.43`	`*** join/#zaurus SP-home (~sirpsycho@adsl-216-62-159-70.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net)`
`00:33.53`	`*** join/#zaurus treke (~ggilbert@12.107.12.130)`
`00:38.01`	`*** join/#zaurus gaurdian (lwxklm@12-213-124-251.client.attbi.com)`
`00:54.09`	`*** join/#zaurus Bala (~Rusaw@hsdbsk142-165-143-46.sasknet.sk.ca)`
`01:03.36`	`*** join/#zaurus wyvern (~supergibs@dcn243-123.dcn.davis.ca.us)`
`01:10.23`	`*** join/#zaurus _Psycho (~Bob@MTL-HSE-ppp165799.qc.sympatico.ca)`
`01:21.00`	`_Psycho`	`kergoth, wireless work #1`
`01:21.17`	`_Psycho`	`im in telnet on my work mail server atm`
`01:33.31`	kergoth`bbl	`_Psycho: excellent :)`
`01:35.18`	`*** join/#zaurus krezel (~ItsME@166-90-245-44.ip2go.net)`
`01:35.33`	`krezel`	`Hey I have a general tmake question`
`01:35.51`	`_Psycho`	`i saw something about the firmware of the linksys but work flawless so far`
`01:38.30`	`krezel`	`Anybody know how to set up multiple builds using tmake? Like I want to have the primary build be the actual app, but then what if I want to build test stubs?`
`01:51.30`	`*** join/#zaurus Inf3rnal (~nick316@fctn1-3253.nb.aliant.net)`
`01:51.38`	`*** part/#zaurus Inf3rnal (~nick316@fctn1-3253.nb.aliant.net)`
`01:52.27`	`*** join/#zaurus prpplague (~joebob@21-190.lctv-b4.cablelynx.com)`
`01:59.03`	`*** join/#zaurus warmi (~www@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`01:59.07`	`warmi`	`re`
`02:00.32`	`krezel`	`re`
`02:00.46`	`krezel`	`do re me la so`
`02:01.10`	`warmi`	`do re me fa so la si do`
`02:01.34`	`krezel`	`isnt there a "ti" in there somewhere?`
`02:02.37`	`mewyn`	`ugh`
`02:02.45`	`warmi`	`well, I don't know exactly how this goes in English ..`
`02:03.05`	`mewyn`	`the si is ti in english`
`02:03.12`	`warmi`	`ah ok`
`02:03.14`	`mewyn`	`god damn the roads suck`
`02:03.16`	`warmi`	`well, close enough`
`02:04.10`	`mewyn`	`people doing 20 in a 45 zone`
`02:04.16`	`warmi`	`well, we are supposed to get what .. like 6 inches of snow ?`
`02:04.21`	`warmi`	`no wonder then`
`02:04.34`	`krezel`	`ah`
`02:04.45`	`mewyn`	`with the conditions of the road, i was able to drive just fine at about 35`
`02:04.47`	`krezel`	`warmi: where at?`
`02:04.53`	`warmi`	`Chicago`
`02:05.21`	`*** join/#zaurus mencken (~mencken@63.163.216.21)`
`02:05.22`	`warmi`	`I am not going to work tommorow anyway .. so I don't really care is it snows :-)`
`02:05.31`	`warmi`	`care IF it snows`
`02:05.34`	`mewyn`	`bastard`
`02:05.43`	`mewyn`	`take the day off, or playing hookey`
`02:05.56`	`warmi`	`working from home`
`02:06.03`	`warmi`	`best of both worlds :-)`
`02:06.08`	`mewyn`	`heh`
`02:06.26`	`warmi`	`well, I actually DO work .. you know`
`02:06.32`	`mewyn`	`wish i could work from home tomorrow`
`02:06.38`	`warmi`	`not like I am sitting home playing Quake or something`
`02:07.02`	`mewyn`	`riiiiight`
`02:07.11`	`warmi`	`unfortunately we don't get to do that often`
`02:07.19`	`mewyn`	`and the pope's catholic`
`02:07.22`	`mewyn`	`wait a second...`
`02:07.27`	`mewyn`	`the pope is catholic`
`02:07.28`	`mewyn`	`doh`
`02:07.28`	`warmi`	`the unwritten limit is about 1-2 days per month`
`02:07.57`	`mewyn`	`think i'd be able to do that as a tech guy? hehe`
`02:08.02`	`warmi`	`mewyn : well, I have VPN connection ..`
`02:08.14`	`warmi`	`so I do write code, fix bugs whatever needs to be done`
`02:08.24`	`mewyn`	`damn. out of peanut butter cups`
`02:08.25`	`warmi`	`mewyn : no`
`02:08.41`	`*** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-435182be.dyn.optonline.net)`
`02:08.46`	`warmi`	`tech support guys need to be around all the time`
`02:08.56`	`mewyn`	`iooh, score! another pbc`
`02:08.59`	`warmi`	`you can't really support Windows machines "from home" :-)`
`02:09.16`	`mewyn`	`actually i could if i did it all phone support :)`
`02:09.57`	`warmi`	`nah .. well, but more often than not you will have to get your ass to whoever is having problems and take a look at their machine etc ..`
`02:10.09`	`Neo\|Work`	`telecommuting is nice`
`02:10.16`	`Neo\|Work`	`did that for my first years in the US`
`02:10.29`	`Neo\|Work`	`with a break at a "normal" job inbetween`
`02:10.39`	`mewyn`	`warmi: i rather do that anyway, i hate the telephone`
`02:10.43`	`warmi`	`yeah - it is nice`
`02:10.47`	`mewyn`	`neo: what country you orignally from?`
`02:11.13`	`warmi`	`mewyn : I understand, especially if you are talking to someone who has no clue about computers ..`
`02:11.40`	`mewyn`	`it's not all that bad usually, but it can be a pain in the ass`
`02:12.36`	`mewyn`	`it's only bad when they don't listen to you`
`02:12.43`	`_Psycho`	`hey there is a console irc client for the Z ?`
`02:12.50`	`mewyn`	`but that goes with any tech support type jobs`
`02:12.59`	`mewyn`	`psycho: compile bitchx or ircii`
`02:13.26`	`_Psycho`	`no compiler close`
`02:13.32`	`_Psycho`	`but icheck for a package of that`
`02:13.40`	`warmi`	`_Psycho: real mean just telnet to irc servers and take from there :-)`
`02:13.45`	`warmi`	`men even`
`02:13.57`	`_Psycho`	`man i did that before`
`02:13.58`	`mewyn`	`real wierdos you mean`
`02:14.00`	`_Psycho`	`its terrible`
`02:14.06`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`02:14.10`	`warmi`	`well, it is doable`
`02:14.13`	`_Psycho`	`i know`
`02:14.23`	`warmi`	`the worst part is that you have to respond to ping`
`02:14.37`	`mewyn`	`well, i can figure out the image from an xpm too, but i'm not gonna`
`02:14.39`	`Neo\|Work`	`mewyn: sweden`
`02:14.39`	`mencken`	`make the shirts "real men telnet"`
`02:14.45`	`mewyn`	`neo: cool`
`02:14.51`	`warmi`	`at least it was the case when "taking" to undernet irc server`
`02:15.07`	`warmi`	`mewyn : hehehe`
`02:15.11`	`Neo\|Work`	`_Psycho: I doubt a console irc would be that useful because of the screen layout`
`02:15.19`	`Neo\|Work`	`not including, of course, C700 where it might work nicely`
`02:15.35`	`mewyn`	`irc is such a pain from the z anyway`
`02:15.37`	`_Psycho`	`i have a c700 with OZ atm`
`02:15.39`	`mewyn`	`my thumbs hurt`
`02:15.47`	`warmi`	`console irc doesn't seem very usefull on my 1280x1024 screen .. let alone Z :-)`
`02:16.05`	`Neo\|Work`	`_Psycho: oh, well, then I can see your point. :P`
`02:16.20`	`_Psycho`	`no Gui yet on the c700 OZ :)`
`02:16.29`	`warmi`	`_Psycho did we already tell you that we hate you for the fact that you have C700 and we dont ?`
`02:16.35`	`mewyn`	`ok... i think i'm gonna veggitate in front of the tv for an hour or two before bed`
`02:16.52`	`_Psycho`	`warmi no but go ahead`
`02:16.53`	`warmi`	`hour or two ?`
`02:17.02`	`Neo\|Work`	`mewyn: must be on the east coast or so?`
`02:17.12`	`warmi`	`what time do you usually go to bed mewyn ?`
`02:17.13`	`Neo\|Work`	`_Psycho: you suck mmkay? :)`
`02:17.27`	`_Psycho`	`yes i do, thanks !`
`02:17.29`	`_Psycho`	`;)`
`02:17.39`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work: Chicago`
`02:18.01`	`warmi`	`he lives like 30 miles from where I live`
`02:18.02`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: is that considered east coast? ;-)`
`02:18.26`	`mewyn`	`warmi: usually midnight ish, but tomorrow i gotta get to work at 6:45. ugh... which means i need to be up at 5:30 or so.`
`02:18.36`	`Neo\|Work`	`mewyn: insane!`
`02:18.39`	`warmi`	`ah ok .. you gonna drive mewyn ?`
`02:18.54`	`mewyn`	`yes, i'm dreading it`
`02:19.02`	`mewyn`	`i really hope they close the school in the morning`
`02:19.11`	`warmi`	`uh .. as the same " if metra is an option for you - go for it "`
`02:19.15`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`02:19.27`	`mewyn`	`i have to go north-south to go to school`
`02:19.30`	`warmi`	`uh .. "as they say"`
`02:19.32`	`mewyn`	`metra's a no go`
`02:19.56`	`warmi`	`well, I can't imagine driving to downtown anymore ..`
`02:19.57`	`*** join/#zaurus hobbs (~andrew@port-58-14-tnt03.avoca.nni.com)`
`02:20.24`	`warmi`	`not to mention the fact that a parsking spot for entire day would cost you about $20 or so`
`02:20.27`	`warmi`	`it just sucks`
`02:20.29`	`mewyn`	`i like driving down town during off-peak hours. it's a fun challange. but i will not park there. :)`
`02:20.50`	`mewyn`	`and i'd never drive downtown during rush hour`
`02:20.53`	`mewyn`	`fuck that.`
`02:21.02`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`02:21.14`	`mewyn`	`anyway, off to watch some tv`
`02:21.20`	`Neo\|Work`	`ah well, think I shall move towards my home`
`02:21.21`	`warmi`	`alright, see you later then`
`02:21.41`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work you must be in Hawaii or something ....`
`02:21.44`	`warmi`	`heh`
`02:23.45`	`Neo\|Work`	`hardly. :P`
`02:23.56`	`Neo\|Work`	`it's 18:23 or so`
`02:23.58`	`*** join/#zaurus Shdwdrgn (Picard@sourpuss.net)`
`02:25.25`	`mewyn`	`i really need to get my own tivo`
`02:25.32`	`warmi`	`oh well, on friday you gonna be still working your ass off while I will already enjoy my weekend`
`02:25.48`	`warmi`	`there are some advantages to being on the east side of the country :-)`
`02:25.53`	`Neo\|Work`	`my tivo has 180 GB disk and it rocks`
`02:25.56`	`Neo\|Work`	`so there`
`02:26.05`	`mewyn`	`that way i don't have to fight over the damn things space and can watch from my pc`
`02:26.10`	`Neo\|Work`	`of course, I will also be sleeping in my bed while you work your ass off`
`02:26.18`	`warmi`	`heheh`
`02:26.26`	`Neo\|Work`	`wtf watch from PC?`
`02:26.50`	`warmi`	`as I remember mewyn likes to watch his dvd movies on computer`
`02:26.58`	`warmi`	`on computer monitor I should say`
`02:27.43`	`warmi`	`what kind of TV you got Neo\|Work (size wise) ?`
`02:28.08`	`Neo\|Work`	`53"`
`02:28.14`	`warmi`	`was that you or Mewyn who had that big ass home-theater system`
`02:28.17`	`Neo\|Work`	`HDTV capable meaning if i had a HDTV source... :)`
`02:28.18`	`warmi`	`oh . so it was you`
`02:28.19`	`warmi`	`heh`
`02:28.32`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work there are some sources`
`02:28.37`	`Neo\|Work`	`my wife thought it to be huge at first but now be both feel it's a bit small. :))`
`02:28.38`	`warmi`	`at least if you get a satelite`
`02:28.47`	`Neo\|Work`	`right but we don't have any`
`02:28.57`	`Neo\|Work`	`not cable, antenna or satellite`
`02:29.29`	`warmi`	`why not ?`
`02:29.50`	`warmi`	`so you are using your tv just for watching dvds ?`
`02:29.57`	`Neo\|Work`	`we have normal cable, not any hdtv digital one etc`
`02:30.06`	`warmi`	`which is , admitely, not a bad thing :-)`
`02:30.16`	`Neo\|Work`	`we do watch TV. a lot of TV. :P`
`02:30.17`	`Neo\|Work`	`thus the tivo`
`02:30.33`	`Neo\|Work`	`also watch stuff via the Playstation 2 (divx etc :)`
`02:30.33`	`warmi`	`why not get yourself something like DirectTV dish`
`02:30.43`	`Neo\|Work`	`costs money, doesn't get you a whole lot`
`02:30.47`	`warmi`	`it is relatively cheap`
`02:30.52`	`warmi`	`$40 or so per month`
`02:30.58`	`Neo\|Work`	`annoying with extra hardware`
`02:31.20`	`Neo\|Work`	`although admittedly with the tivo it might not be noticeable a whole lot`
`02:31.41`	`Neo\|Work`	`we're happy with our current TV situation so. :P`
`02:31.51`	`Neo\|Work`	`HDTV would be nice and eventually we'll get it`
`02:31.55`	`warmi`	`well, you would get to see your HDTV working full time though ..`
`02:32.01`	`warmi`	`they do have HDTV channels there`
`02:32.05`	`Neo\|Work`	`a few yes`
`02:32.11`	`Neo\|Work`	`I checked, it's not many`
`02:32.16`	`Neo\|Work`	`not many at all`
`02:32.28`	`warmi`	`well, nobody offers many beacuse there is no audience out there`
`02:32.39`	`warmi`	`I mean, HDTV is still very much thing of the future`
`02:32.49`	`mewyn`	`yah`
`02:33.11`	`mewyn`	`but one good current application of hdtv monitors is a big honking computer monitor`
`02:33.17`	`Neo\|Work`	`except that in 5 yrs all broadcasts have to be HDTV according to the US government`
`02:33.30`	`mewyn`	`i'm gonna be doing that for my gaming system. if i ever get a better job`
`02:33.32`	`mewyn`	`:)`
`02:33.35`	`warmi`	`they even came up with that idiotic "requirment" that every station by a given date has to be broadcasting a certain percentage of their lineup using HDTV format`
`02:33.39`	`mewyn`	`neo: no, digital, not hdtv`
`02:33.43`	`Neo\|Work`	`mewyn: yeah, if I had a computer (esp laptop) with suitable output. :P`
`02:33.43`	`mewyn`	`they can be standard def`
`02:33.59`	`Neo\|Work`	`but playing the PS2 on it is nice, excluding the fact tha tI wish it wasn't interlaced`
`02:34.04`	`mewyn`	`your hdtv doesn't have a vga port?`
`02:34.05`	`warmi`	`of course, as usually, market economy turned out to be stronger than some stupid politician`
`02:34.06`	`warmi`	`heh`
`02:34.08`	`Neo\|Work`	`we do watch DVD's in 480p which is NICE`
`02:34.33`	`Neo\|Work`	`mewyn: not as far as I know - RGB input is still rare is it not?`
`02:34.41`	`mewyn`	`not that rare`
`02:34.46`	`Neo\|Work`	`my HDTV has like 1-2 yrs on it as well`
`02:34.46`	`warmi`	`what's the max resolution on your TV .Neo ?`
`02:34.56`	`Neo\|Work`	`1080i or whatever that one is`
`02:34.57`	`mewyn`	`prolly 1080i`
`02:35.04`	`Neo\|Work`	`so 1900x1080 or something along those lines`
`02:35.06`	`Neo\|Work`	`interlaced`
`02:35.14`	`Neo\|Work`	`720p seems like the nicest option though`
`02:35.22`	`mewyn`	`neo: you can get a VGA to component adapter`
`02:35.26`	`Neo\|Work`	`I know`
`02:35.29`	`warmi`	`uh .. so it is not very usefull as a PC display`
`02:35.35`	`Neo\|Work`	`I was looking into alternatives for media player`
`02:35.41`	`mewyn`	`neo: there is a step up, 1080p. it's wonderful, but fscking expensive`
`02:35.50`	`hobbs`	`I have a hard time not reading "composite" when people talk about component video.`
`02:35.55`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: it's more than my laptop monitor can display...`
`02:36.03`	`Neo\|Work`	`hobbs: yeah. :P`
`02:36.15`	`mewyn`	`hobbs: saying composite when you mean component will get you suckerpunched :)`
`02:36.26`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work well, then all I can say is that you have an old laptop :-)`
`02:36.46`	`warmi`	`anyway, I will get HDTV when the price is right ( and so will 90% of US population)`
`02:36.59`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: oh yes :P P3-500 that cost me $40 (well, laptop was free - I bougt an addl 256 MB of memory)`
`02:37.15`	`mewyn`	`it's also not a VESA resolution, so not all video adapters will do 1080i`
`02:37.22`	`hobbs`	`I had a friend with a nice 51" plasma hdtv with a directivo and an xbox. that was fairly cool.`
`02:37.30`	`Neo\|Work`	`and it's always 60 Hz too`
`02:37.34`	`warmi`	`hobbs : fairly cool ?`
`02:37.36`	`Neo\|Work`	`in general at least`
`02:37.40`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`02:37.47`	`Neo\|Work`	`xbox handles HDTV`
`02:37.51`	`Neo\|Work`	`one good reason to get one I guess. :P`
`02:37.58`	`Neo\|Work`	`anyhow, I was leaving ...`
`02:38.03`	`hobbs`	`Neo\|Work: right. Morrowind was cool. Well -- slow. But pretty.`
`02:38.08`	`mewyn`	`warmi: /HD/TV may not go down much further than where it is right now. HD is the high end of TV. SD digital TV will be available in the right price range :)`
`02:38.09`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work yeah , that would rock to play games at PC like resolutions`
`02:38.22`	`mewyn`	`many people confuse HD and digital`
`02:38.58`	`warmi`	`mewyn : down much further ? uh ... so you are saying that this standard is already dead ?`
`02:39.32`	`warmi`	`what's the difference between SD and HD ?`
`02:39.38`	`mewyn`	`no, HD is for the high end consumers`
`02:39.56`	`warmi`	`people like Neo you mean :-)`
`02:39.57`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`02:40.07`	`mewyn`	`HD - 1080i, 720p or 1080p. SD - 480i or p`
`02:40.15`	`mewyn`	`and me :)`
`02:40.22`	`warmi`	`uh ... and your standard TV is like what ?`
`02:40.32`	`mewyn`	`480i analog`
`02:40.44`	`warmi`	`eh fuck it then .. SD is no improvement at all`
`02:40.44`	`treke\|home`	`480i?`
`02:40.58`	`treke\|home`	`that the maximum storage?`
`02:41.02`	`mewyn`	`it's digital. that's the major improvement`
`02:41.09`	`mewyn`	`SDTV`
`02:41.14`	`treke\|home`	`oh`
`02:41.14`	`warmi`	`oh well ...`
`02:41.30`	`mewyn`	`480p is a wonderful improvement`
`02:41.34`	`warmi`	`it used to be damn simple - you wanted to have big screen , you would buy a big TV and vice versa`
`02:42.03`	`warmi`	`mewyn : nah .. given wide enough market HD will come down as well`
`02:42.09`	`warmi`	`look at 20 " monitors`
`02:42.28`	`mewyn`	`plus, with SD (technically EDTV) you have the choice of 16:9`
`02:42.30`	`warmi`	`these used to priced in $2000 range just like 5-6 years ago`
`02:42.32`	`mewyn`	`warmi: true`
`02:43.35`	`warmi`	`well, what kind of TV you got now mewyn ?`
`02:43.44`	`warmi`	`just a regular one ?`
`02:44.15`	`mewyn`	`i don't own a tv, but my dad has a 54" philips projection he bought in like 97 or so.`
`02:44.26`	`warmi`	`projection ?`
`02:44.31`	`mewyn`	`it's an analog set, but he keeps it in tip-top shape`
`02:44.35`	`mewyn`	`rear projection`
`02:44.42`	`mewyn`	`the only way you can go above 40"`
`02:44.51`	`warmi`	`so there is some other shit about there ? man , I was already confused`
`02:45.06`	`mewyn`	`rear projection has been around for every`
`02:45.09`	`mewyn`	`ever`
`02:45.12`	`warmi`	`well, I will stay with computers - thank you very much`
`02:45.19`	`warmi`	`well, I never heard about that :-)`
`02:45.36`	`warmi`	`I don't exactly follow latest or not so latest developments in the TV world but still ..`
`02:46.09`	`mewyn`	`well, you have your direct view and front and rear projection CRT TVs, LCD and DLP front and rear projectors, and LCD and Plasma direct views`
`02:46.27`	`warmi`	`well, going to a modern Theater is still a very much unique experience ..`
`02:46.38`	`warmi`	`even with all these Home/Theater systems`
`02:46.43`	`warmi`	`they don't come close`
`02:46.50`	`mewyn`	`you are correct`
`02:47.06`	`warmi`	`if only people stop eating so much in these establishments ..`
`02:47.11`	`warmi`	`stopped`
`02:47.31`	`warmi`	`hehe ... when I first came here I was slightly taken aback ..`
`02:47.41`	`warmi`	`when I saw all these people eating and drinking in theaters ..`
`02:47.43`	`mewyn`	`don't like the munch munch crunch crunch and that godawful smell of the movie theater hot dog?`
`02:48.19`	`warmi`	`any sort of eathing and drinking in theater was considered a "bad taste" when and where I grew up ;-)`
`02:48.27`	`mewyn`	`ah ha.`
`02:48.37`	`warmi`	`but hey ...`
`02:48.43`	`warmi`	`I guess I got used to it already`
`02:48.57`	`warmi`	`I don't eat personally , if only because I hate sitting with sticky hands`
`02:49.19`	`treke\|home`	`not to mention a coke being 3 bucks for a small`
`02:49.35`	`warmi`	`treke : yeah that's another - very good reason`
`02:49.57`	`mewyn`	`i like a bit of popcorn before a movie, but i hate having to have something to drink. i have a messed up water balance in my body and if i drink just a little too much i have to go to the bathroom at least once during the movie`
`02:50.24`	`mewyn`	`and i despise those prices too`
`02:50.31`	`mewyn`	`but i usually smuggle food in`
`02:50.37`	`mewyn`	`a bag of candy or something`
`02:50.43`	`warmi`	`mewyn : uh .. yeah "messed up water balance" - you mean you need to piss often when you drink , right ?`
`02:50.43`	`mewyn`	`usually raisnettes :)`
`02:50.44`	`warmi`	`:-))`
`02:50.51`	`mewyn`	`yes`
`02:51.09`	`mewyn`	`i get overhydrated and dehydrated very, very easily`
`02:52.04`	`mewyn`	`i have a 6 hour peroid of time missing from my memory because i got dehydrated`
`02:52.19`	`warmi`	`one thing I just can't stand , are these sticky floors in theaters ...`
`02:52.26`	`treke\|home`	`I have many 6 hour periods of time missing`
`02:52.35`	`treke\|home`	`seems like one occurs every night`
`02:52.48`	`*** join/#zaurus sig (~sig@h-66-167-137-45.STTNWAHO.covad.net)`
`02:52.49`	`mewyn`	`yes, very much so. sometimes i can barely walk`
`02:53.02`	`warmi`	`mewyn : you mean , you were out somewhere in a desert or something ?`
`02:53.02`	`mewyn`	`treke: learn to remember your dreams`
`02:53.15`	`mewyn`	`michigan`
`02:53.23`	`mewyn`	`camping during the summer`
`02:53.27`	`warmi`	`ah ok`
`02:53.32`	`mewyn`	`it was warm, and i didn't bring enough to drink`
`02:54.03`	`warmi`	`oh well, then I guess you would make a good material for this upcomming war in iraq :-)`
`02:54.08`	`warmi`	`wouldn't`
`02:54.12`	`treke\|home`	`mewyn: eh, I usually dont dream of anything worth remembering`
`02:54.13`	`mewyn`	`not at all`
`02:54.35`	`mewyn`	`ttreke: how do you know if you can't remember it`
`02:54.40`	`JasonNJ`	`sup zees.`
`02:54.49`	`treke\|home`	`mewyn: Never said I cant remember it`
`02:54.57`	`warmi`	`mewyn: well, how long you can go without having anything to drink before trouble starts ?`
`02:55.08`	`mewyn`	`warmi: it's variable`
`02:55.11`	`warmi`	`assuming some decent not-to-hot weather etc ..`
`02:55.22`	`warmi`	`room temperature say`
`02:55.23`	`mewyn`	`i'm nto sure latley, because i try to drink enough`
`02:55.31`	`treke\|home`	`not all that long :)`
`02:56.05`	`warmi`	`yeah, me to - but in my case because I like to drink`
`02:56.23`	`warmi`	`almost every day I take with my to work 1.5 liter of mineral carbonated water`
`02:56.37`	`mewyn`	`ewww. carbonated water`
`02:56.46`	`treke\|home`	`eewww`
`02:56.58`	`warmi`	`what's wrong with that ?`
`02:57.09`	`mewyn`	`don't like the taste`
`02:57.20`	`mewyn`	`the carbonic acid`
`02:57.46`	`warmi`	`well, this is something completely different - I spent fortune on that thing ( usually 12 bottles per week )`
`02:58.32`	`warmi`	`it is from Poland and is expensive like hell - from one of these "spings" or whatever - I love that taste`
`02:59.07`	`treke\|home`	`Poland, Michigan`
`02:59.14`	`warmi`	`treke : nah .. not that one :-)`
`02:59.35`	`warmi`	`at work we have fridges loaded with that cheap stuff`
`03:00.07`	`warmi`	`mewyn : so what do you drink ?`
`03:00.17`	`mewyn`	`that's nuts`
`03:00.19`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: hard to beat the price :)`
`03:00.27`	`warmi`	`treke : yeah, I know`
`03:00.57`	`mewyn`	`i usually drink plain old water, or pepsi, or juice`
`03:01.14`	`warmi`	`you don't mean tap water ,right ?`
`03:01.23`	`warmi`	`yeah, I like pepsi as well`
`03:01.24`	`mewyn`	`i'm addicted to caffiene, so i need at least one peopsi a day`
`03:01.29`	`mewyn`	`yah, regular tap water`
`03:01.30`	`warmi`	`hehe ..`
`03:01.37`	`warmi`	`I like pepsi for its taste`
`03:01.38`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: or as we like to call it "ice tea"`
`03:01.38`	`treke\|home`	`:)`
`03:01.42`	`mewyn`	`tap water == cheap :)`
`03:01.45`	`warmi`	`as far as caffeine - I prefer coffe`
`03:01.51`	`mewyn`	`oh, iced tea is good`
`03:02.01`	`warmi`	`treke: heh`
`03:02.10`	`treke\|home`	`mewyn: that was a jopke about the quality of local tapwater :)`
`03:02.13`	`mewyn`	`if i want something hot, usually a good cup of tea`
`03:02.24`	`warmi`	`mewyn : yeah, me too`
`03:02.33`	`mewyn`	`i'll drink tap water nearly everywhere.`
`03:02.35`	`treke\|home`	`maybe its just me, but I cant stand hot drinks`
`03:02.45`	`mewyn`	`but i don't like well water.`
`03:02.46`	`warmi`	`I grew up drinking almost exclusively tea`
`03:02.54`	`JasonNJ`	`I love all hot drinks.`
`03:03.05`	`warmi`	`treke: well there is a time for everything`
`03:03.06`	`JasonNJ`	`I could totally go for a hot cider now.`
`03:03.23`	`treke\|home`	`hehe if need be I'll drink any water. I'd rather spend 50 cents a gallon for something that tastes decent`
`03:03.30`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: If you say so`
`03:03.52`	`_Psycho`	`kergoth its normal that i cant mount my sd card ?`
`03:04.04`	`warmi`	`treke: just wait - when you get older you stomach will start asking for something warmer ...:-)`
`03:04.17`	`warmi`	`and I don't mean 50 years old`
`03:04.21`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`03:04.21`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: hehe hope not :)`
`03:04.52`	`warmi`	`treke : how about hot chocolate ?`
`03:04.56`	`warmi`	`don't like that either ?`
`03:05.04`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: particularly not hot chocolate`
`03:05.09`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`03:05.18`	`warmi`	`well, how about hot beer ?`
`03:05.23`	`warmi`	`I kid you not ..`
`03:05.35`	`treke\|home`	`never tried it hot`
`03:06.08`	`warmi`	`in winter in Poland and some other European countries they serve all kinds of hot beer with juice, honey etc`
`03:06.17`	`mewyn`	`ick`
`03:06.23`	`mewyn`	`but i hate beer`
`03:06.25`	`warmi`	`it is actually pretty good`
`03:06.29`	`treke\|home`	`tea isnt too bad. Coffee is a bit worse. Hot Chocolate is horrid`
`03:07.14`	`warmi`	`well, depends what do you mean by hot chocolate`
`03:07.21`	`mewyn`	`one thing with a lot of things i drink, i prefer it to be nearer room temerature, except for most tea and colas`
`03:07.25`	`warmi`	`I don't mean that cheap stuff you mix with hot water etc ..`
`03:07.39`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: more or less any :) I forgot to mention I dont care for chocolate much`
`03:08.14`	`treke\|home`	`mewyn: same. I prefer just on the cool side of room temperature`
`03:08.26`	`mewyn`	`doesn't sound like me :)`
`03:08.31`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`03:09.20`	`mewyn`	`son of a...`
`03:09.23`	`warmi`	`yeah, chocolate is good`
`03:09.29`	`mewyn`	`now i know where my cd 3 is bad`
`03:09.33`	`mewyn`	`at zsh!`
`03:09.59`	`mewyn`	`i'm not a huge fan of hershey's. but i'll eat it. (this bag was mostly empty when i got it`
`03:10.19`	`warmi`	`mewyn : my favourite chocolate is either Swiss or German`
`03:10.22`	kergoth`bbl	`_Psycho: yes, because I havent added the sdmmc package with the binary modules from the sharp c700 rom yet.. i'll get to that this evening`
`03:10.25`	kergoth`bbl	`yo`
`03:10.25`	`warmi`	`preferably with some kind of nuts`
`03:10.30`	`mewyn`	`hey kergoth`
`03:10.47`	`mewyn`	`no nuts.`
`03:10.59`	`mewyn`	`i love fannie may.`
`03:11.09`	`mewyn`	`swiss chocolate is usually great`
`03:11.16`	`mewyn`	`never had much german`
`03:11.22`	`warmi`	`I love Milka`
`03:11.30`	`warmi`	`I don't know if you heard about that brand`
`03:11.35`	`mewyn`	`godiva is to die for :)`
`03:11.37`	`mewyn`	`nope`
`03:11.55`	`warmi`	`http://www.milka.de/home/home.html`
`03:11.58`	`warmi`	`I am sure you did`
`03:12.00`	`warmi`	`they are huge`
`03:12.18`	`mewyn`	`ok, i recognize the cow`
`03:12.22`	`warmi`	`yeah`
`03:12.31`	`warmi`	`good stuff`
`03:12.33`	`mewyn`	`dont' think i had any though`
`03:12.50`	`warmi`	`well, you won't see that stuff in your average Dominics`
`03:13.05`	`mewyn`	`dominics maybe`
`03:13.08`	`mewyn`	`jewel no`
`03:13.13`	`warmi`	`I generally go to Polish ethnic stores - they have all kinds of stuff from Europe`
`03:13.25`	`warmi`	`expensive though`
`03:13.25`	`mewyn`	`i find a lot of ethnic stuff at dominics`
`03:13.28`	`mewyn`	`i'm sure`
`03:13.40`	`warmi`	`mewyn : they have some but that's just tip of an iceberg`
`03:13.49`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`03:14.39`	`mewyn`	`i love the day after vallentine's day.`
`03:14.45`	`mewyn`	`that's /my/ holliday :)`
`03:14.50`	`mewyn`	`cheap chocolate day :)`
`03:15.33`	`warmi`	`yeah`
`03:15.52`	`mewyn`	`i normally hate vallentine's day`
`03:16.09`	`*** join/#zaurus wyvern (~supergibs@dcn243-123.dcn.davis.ca.us)`
`03:16.12`	`warmi`	`I never heard about Valentine day before I came here - now I hear it is all over in Poland - in fact my coworker claims it is all over in India as well`
`03:16.13`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`03:16.44`	`mewyn`	`ugh`
`03:16.54`	`mewyn`	`it's all thanks to hallmark`
`03:16.54`	`warmi`	`well, I guess mostly because this is just another ocassion for retailers to increase their business ..`
`03:17.30`	`warmi`	`well, nothing wrong with that`
`03:17.33`	`warmi`	`I don't really care`
`03:18.37`	`mewyn`	`it just goes against my relationship and romance 'ethics' :)`
`03:19.07`	`mewyn`	`i don't like being told when to give gifts :)`
`03:19.36`	`warmi`	`yeah .. I guess`
`03:19.44`	`warmi`	`I don't do anything on that day`
`03:19.49`	`warmi`	`and my wife doesn't care :-)`
`03:20.02`	`mewyn`	`that's good :)`
`03:20.58`	`mewyn`	`this is one thing that is driving me nuts about my new job.`
`03:21.11`	`treke\|home`	`mewyn: found a job? cool`
`03:21.19`	`warmi`	`what ?`
`03:21.28`	`*** join/#zaurus chouimat (~dieu@modemcable120.184-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca)`
`03:21.33`	`warmi`	`what is driving you nuts ?`
`03:21.50`	`mewyn`	`i don't like working with constant suprevision. i can see it's needed with all the people who come in with no experience in a job, but i'd rather just do my thing and not have to report back to my supervisor every three seconds`
`03:22.20`	`mewyn`	`treke: not much of a job, i'm working at my school as a lab aide. i get 7.65 an hour and i can only work up to 18 hours a week`
`03:22.34`	`treke\|home`	`at least its money`
`03:22.37`	`warmi`	`mewyn : maybe that's just temporary ..`
`03:22.52`	`warmi`	`perhaps they will start trusting you guys more later ..`
`03:23.02`	`mewyn`	`nope. they do it for everyone`
`03:23.38`	`gaurdian`	`so quit and find a different job`
`03:23.49`	`mewyn`	`i'm trying to find a different job`
`03:24.04`	`*** join/#zaurus sukoshi_ (~sukoshi@dyn-212-232-38-235.ppp.tiscali.fr)`
`03:24.14`	`mewyn`	`but i absolutly need something right now`
`03:24.25`	`mewyn`	`need to pay bills and save up for my vacation`
`03:24.41`	`gaurdian`	`you WANT something right now, you dont NEED to save for a vacation`
`03:24.49`	`*** join/#zaurus vhalros_ (~vhalros@syr-24-59-96-194.twcny.rr.com)`
`03:24.55`	`kergoth`	`heh, he needs to pay bills.`
`03:25.00`	`Vhalros`	`My stylus broke...`
`03:25.04`	`gaurdian`	`paying bills is one thing, saving for a vacation is something different`
`03:25.07`	`treke\|home`	`gaurdian: you missed the part about needing to pay bills`
`03:25.09`	`gaurdian`	`agreed kergoth`
`03:25.10`	`Vhalros`	`However, I have succesfully whittled a new stylus out of bamboo :)`
`03:25.20`	`kergoth`	`Vhalros: eh?`
`03:25.23`	`mewyn`	`gaurdian: yes, i need to save for this vacation. it's a present to someone in the hospital right now`
`03:25.23`	`Vhalros`	`I now have 1 ghetto stylus :)`
`03:25.24`	`mewyn`	`:P`
`03:25.27`	`kergoth`	`you _whittled_ a stylus?`
`03:25.29`	`kergoth`	`lol`
`03:25.43`	`Vhalros`	`kergoth: Yes. Out of a chopstick :)`
`03:25.45`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: I don't want to understand`
`03:25.48`	`kergoth`	`haha`
`03:25.50`	`treke\|home`	`Vhalros: Nice`
`03:26.06`	`mewyn`	`lol`
`03:26.31`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: If you got the chance to get the Mastermind Angels of the Apocalypse album .... GET IT`
`03:26.47`	`chouimat`	`s/got/get`
`03:27.10`	`JasonNJ`	`cool. hand made styluses,`
`03:27.19`	`oGMo`	`heh`
`03:27.30`	`Vhalros`	`I think I need to glue a little handle onto it so that it is easier to get out, but it is okay for now...`
`03:27.34`	`oGMo`	`next you should make a hand-carved wood case`
`03:27.53`	`oGMo`	`i mean like a body for the Z, not something you put the Z in`
`03:28.00`	`JasonNJ`	`lol`
`03:28.03`	`chouimat`	`oGMo: lol`
`03:28.11`	`JasonNJ`	`wooden zaurus`
`03:28.13`	`Vhalros`	`Yeah, maybe if /that/ breaks...`
`03:28.33`	`oGMo`	`then you could make a stylish grey plastic... never mind`
`03:28.58`	`oGMo`	`anyone read gibson's idoru series?`
`03:29.12`	`chouimat`	`oGMo: what that?`
`03:29.13`	`oGMo`	`like the one type of box in there`
`03:29.15`	`JasonNJ`	`I havent read gibson in a while`
`03:29.32`	`mewyn`	`i haven't hacked the gibson in a while`
`03:29.32`	`JasonNJ`	`last thing I read by him was difference engine`
`03:29.54`	`oGMo`	`chouimat: it's a series that happens in the early 21st century, long before neuromancer etc`
`03:30.03`	`oGMo`	`JasonNJ: eh that was only co-authored, and kinda sucked`
`03:30.23`	`JasonNJ`	`I'nm not really a big fan of cyberpunk`
`03:30.30`	`hobbs`	`I could use a good wooden stylus.`
`03:30.31`	`oGMo`	`"Pattern Recognition" just came out, and i havne't had a chance to really read it, but it's kinda cool (it's present-day)`
`03:30.45`	`*** join/#zaurus Bala (~Rusaw@hsdbsk142-165-143-46.sasknet.sk.ca)`
`03:30.52`	`hobbs`	`If it has an accurate fit and a little tab to pull it out by. :)`
`03:30.53`	`JasonNJ`	`chouimat: are you reading the current book? I'm not crazy about it`
`03:31.24`	`JasonNJ`	`I put Butlerian Jihad down for a while`
`03:31.30`	`chouimat`	`JasonNJ: yup, the house series was better... that probably because it was in a familiar environment :)`
`03:31.35`	`JasonNJ`	`I dont really like the characters`
`03:31.53`	`JasonNJ`	`the only character I like is the psycho robot`
`03:31.54`	`Vhalros`	`hobbs: These chopsticks I found are the perfect size...`
`03:32.05`	`JasonNJ`	`the cymeks seem stupid to me`
`03:32.12`	`chouimat`	`JasonNJ:yup the Atreides and the HArkonnen are switched`
`03:32.41`	`JasonNJ`	`I dont want to have to read 2 more books to get to the meat of why the whole feud started`
`03:32.59`	`JasonNJ`	`the house series was genuinely enjoyable`
`03:33.00`	`chouimat`	`JasonNJ: did you enconter the sorcerress of Rossak?`
`03:33.03`	`JasonNJ`	`this I can take or leave`
`03:33.09`	`warmi`	`mewyn: well, hopefully one sunny day you will get that job`
`03:33.10`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`03:33.11`	`warmi`	`will see`
`03:33.22`	`JasonNJ`	`yeah I got up to the part where her daughter leaves for holtzman`
`03:33.25`	`JasonNJ`	`then I put it down`
`03:33.28`	`mewyn`	`damn. you're restricting it to a sunny day...`
`03:33.34`	`mewyn`	`how about a sunny day in LA`
`03:33.40`	`mewyn`	`they get a lot of sun there`
`03:33.42`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`03:33.48`	`chouimat`	`JasonNJ: I got the feeling that the Sorceress == Bene Gesserit :)`
`03:33.56`	`warmi`	`mewyn : no that was a figure of speech`
`03:33.59`	`warmi`	`heh`
`03:34.02`	`mewyn`	`i know :)`
`03:34.21`	`chouimat`	`hmmm that album is very good`
`03:34.24`	`mewyn`	`i make fun of a lot of figures of speech by taking them literally`
`03:34.33`	`warmi`	`heh`
`03:34.52`	`mewyn`	`3,7-Dihydro-1,3,7-trimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione eep!`
`03:35.17`	`chouimat`	`mewyn: coool :)`
`03:35.39`	`mewyn`	`anyone know what that is?]`
`03:35.55`	`chouimat`	`mewyn: wait I will check in my CRC :)`
`03:36.14`	`JasonNJ`	`meweyn: sounds like the basic ingredients of cheez whiz`
`03:36.31`	`*** join/#zaurus do_guh_new (~Matthew@user-0cal915.cable.mindspring.com)`
`03:37.00`	`mewyn`	`nope`
`03:37.05`	`do_guh_new`	`hello I just a 5500 zaurus and am trying to sync it with redhat8 has anyone accomplished this?`
`03:37.14`	`kergoth`	`ibot: tell do_guh_new about howtos`
`03:37.17`	`mewyn`	`but you prolly ingest between 200 and a gram of it every day`
`03:37.21`	`do_guh_new`	`just please`
`03:37.27`	`kergoth`	`do_guh_new: read`
`03:37.34`	`chouimat`	`mewyn: caffeine`
`03:37.36`	`warmi`	`mewyn: coffe`
`03:37.37`	`mewyn`	`yup`
`03:37.39`	`do_guh_new`	`ya been there before`
`03:37.42`	`do_guh_new`	`but thanks`
`03:38.31`	`*** part/#zaurus do_guh_new (~Matthew@user-0cal915.cable.mindspring.com)`
`03:48.24`	`mewyn`	`well, i gutss it's time for me to go to sleep`
`03:49.35`	`*** join/#zaurus Infamous (~qwerty@155.33.158.167)`
`04:00.52`	`*** join/#zaurus wyv3rn (~supergibs@dcn243-123.dcn.davis.ca.us)`
`04:01.02`	`*** join/#zaurus wyvern (~supergibs@dcn243-123.dcn.davis.ca.us)`
`04:01.39`	`*** join/#zaurus nerdboy (~sarnold@64.136.145.171)`
`04:11.50`	`*** join/#zaurus kerr (~aaron@pcp01477495pcs.quaryv01.pa.comcast.net)`
`04:12.09`	`kerr`	`any ideas when the SL-5600 is to be released?`
`04:12.25`	`kerr`	`besides "early 2003"`
`04:12.39`	`treke\|home`	`kerr: how does june sound?`
`04:12.52`	`kerr`	`you serious?`
`04:13.28`	`_Psycho`	`april most likely`
`04:13.32`	`kerr`	`hrmm`
`04:13.34`	`_Psycho`	`its already listed on pcconnection`
`04:13.40`	`_Psycho`	`they finished the rom`
`04:13.42`	`treke\|home`	`kerr: just wanted to get your opinion on the sound of the word june`
`04:13.46`	`kerr`	`yeah, I saw the press release, etc`
`04:13.46`	`_Psycho`	`they probably pack and ship around`
`04:14.06`	`kerr`	`lol, treke\|home, that was a surprise indeed`
`04:14.31`	`kerr`	`I saw on the sharp website it said "early 2003" so I've been wondering`
`04:14.46`	`kerr`	`cause I've been holding off buying a 5500, as much as I need a PDA, the 5600 just offers too much more`
`04:16.01`	`kerr`	`oooh, gonna be $500 eh? still a decent price...`
`04:17.37`	`treke\|home`	`kerr: just keep in mind that 1) battery life and 2) persistant storage are the only really great things it offers`
`04:17.54`	`kerr`	`and it supposedly has speaker and mic in it now`
`04:18.15`	`kerr`	`that was a major hassle of the 5500 imo`
`04:18.46`	`treke\|home`	`that also`
`04:18.47`	`kerr`	`but plus, I'm just one of those stupid "must have top of the line" type people I guess`
`04:18.56`	`kergoth`	`I used to be like that`
`04:19.00`	`kergoth`	`until I realized I had no money`
`04:19.03`	`treke\|home`	`I just wouldnt put those featues as being worth 250 bucks :)`
`04:19.03`	`kerr`	`lol`
`04:19.20`	`kerr`	`ah, well where I was pricing the 5500, it was 400`
`04:19.38`	`kergoth`	`read the topic`
`04:19.40`	`kerr`	`so to me its 100 more for more storage, which an SD chip for more would be costly, plus better battery life`
`04:19.42`	`kergoth`	`:)`
`04:19.45`	`kerr`	`I know`
`04:19.52`	`kerr`	`just saying, I usually stick local stores`
`04:19.53`	`treke\|home`	`kerr: no.`
`04:19.55`	`kerr`	`I get my stuff at staples`
`04:20.01`	`treke\|home`	`kerr: there is no extra storage`
`04:20.01`	`NeoTron`	`ok, first impression of the Dell: damn the apps start fast`
`04:20.05`	`treke\|home`	`kerr: it is identical`
`04:20.23`	`kergoth`	`i think he means 100 more for the 5600 from the 5500`
`04:20.28`	`kergoth`	`but thats wrong, its 250 more`
`04:20.29`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`04:20.31`	`kergoth`	`NeoTron: nice`
`04:20.52`	`treke\|home`	`kergoth: he said 100 bucks for more storage :)`
`04:20.53`	`kerr`	`no, I'm saying, where I could get a 5500 locally, they cost $400`
`04:21.00`	`kerr`	`so for $500, its a decent deal`
`04:21.04`	`kergoth`	`?`
`04:21.07`	`treke\|home`	`kerr: so order it online where you get it for 250 bucks`
`04:21.10`	`kergoth`	`you'd spend $150 more to buy locally?`
`04:21.14`	`kergoth`	`thats pretty fucking stupid.`
`04:21.34`	`kerr`	`nevermind`
`04:21.52`	`treke\|home`	`kerr, the difference in storage is that it is persistant on the 5600. On the 5500 it will disappear if you run out of power`
`04:21.56`	`kerr`	`I'm just saying, for the most part, I rely on local sources`
`04:22.13`	`kerr`	`treke: but it does have more RAM, too`
`04:22.17`	`treke\|home`	`kerr: The 5600 is not likely to be as available from local souces`
`04:22.20`	`treke\|home`	`kerr: no it doesnt`
`04:22.28`	`kerr`	`lemme get my specs sheet`
`04:22.40`	`kergoth`	`you dont need your specs shee`
`04:22.41`	`kergoth`	`t`
`04:22.45`	`kergoth`	`we are your specs shee`
`04:22.50`	`kergoth`	`it has 64mb flash, 32mb ram`
`04:22.56`	`kerr`	`k, it has the same RAM, but 64MB flash`
`04:22.56`	`kerr`	`yeah`
`04:23.04`	`kerr`	`so, I was right originally, saying more storage`
`04:23.10`	`kergoth`	`no`
`04:23.10`	`kerr`	`cause it only had 16MB flash which was for the OS`
`04:23.11`	`treke\|home`	`kerr: No you werent :)`
`04:23.15`	`kergoth`	`you werent`
`04:23.27`	`kergoth`	`current Z is 32mb ram used as ram, 32mb ram used as storage, 16mb flash`
`04:23.27`	`treke\|home`	`kerr: you still get 32mb of space on the 5600 for storage`
`04:23.49`	`kergoth`	`new Z is 32mb ram as ram, 32mb rw storage, 32mb ro flash`
`04:23.56`	`kerr`	`ah, damn`
`04:23.59`	`kergoth`	`now with OZ of course, you have 64mb of persistant storage`
`04:24.06`	`treke\|home`	`In the end I'd say you come out behind`
`04:24.19`	`NeoTron`	`kergoth: I don't know is preloading is used but laucnhing is pretty much immediate`
`04:24.20`	`treke\|home`	`since you cant trade storage space for more ram and use SD for storage`
`04:24.21`	`kergoth`	`OZ on the 5600 will give you 64mb of flash to play with, thats substantial`
`04:24.30`	`kergoth`	`true`
`04:24.55`	`kerr`	`I dunno, I don't much care, the 5600 looks good for my needs`
`04:25.11`	`treke\|home`	`but thats just my opinon on the ram/flash tradeoff :)`
`04:25.23`	`treke\|home`	`the big battery would be nice`
`04:25.29`	`kerr`	`and you're entitled to your opinion, of course, but personally, I dunno...`
`04:25.35`	`treke\|home`	`and possibly worth the 250 dollar price difference`
`04:25.45`	`*** join/#zaurus frankps (~frankps@10.80-202-169.nextgentel.com)`
`04:25.50`	`kerr`	`a friend of mine was telling me about using OPIE and all on his, I dunno`
`04:25.52`	`kergoth`	`myself, i love the c700. only downside is the battery, which you can hack the 5600 battery into`
`04:25.59`	`kergoth`	`kerr: what do you think i'm talking about?`
`04:26.05`	`kerr`	`I know`
`04:26.07`	`kergoth`	`kerr: opie runs on OZ. OZ on 5600 will give you 64mb of flash to play with.`
`04:26.08`	`kerr`	`openzaurus`
`04:26.38`	`treke\|home`	`kergoth: still using the sharp rom on you c700?`
`04:26.47`	`kergoth`	`nope`
`04:26.54`	`treke\|home`	`good`
`04:26.57`	`kergoth`	`pure console OZ, and the opie calibrator and tslib utils for testing`
`04:27.04`	`kerr`	`thats what I'm saying, a friend of mine told me about it before, specifically OPIE because of the fact that most of the software you'll find works for OPIE not the standard stuff`
`04:27.18`	`kergoth`	`kerr: most qtopia apps run on either.`
`04:27.18`	`treke\|home`	`kerr: no`
`04:27.29`	`frankps`	`How is Opie working on the sl-700?`
`04:27.31`	`treke\|home`	`kerr: most apps are written for the sharp rom`
`04:27.33`	`kerr`	`whatever, I dunno, its been months since I've looked at this stuff`
`04:27.33`	`kergoth`	`kerr: except those that require the opie library, and you can install that on either opie or qtoipa`
`04:27.40`	`kergoth`	`kerr: that was incorrect months ago`
`04:27.43`	`kergoth`	`kerr: and its incorrect now.`
`04:27.45`	`treke\|home`	`They also work on opie`
`04:27.57`	`kergoth`	`frankps: it isnt, until i fix the keyboard handling`
`04:27.58`	`kerr`	`I'm saying, its been months, I could hve my stuff wrong by now`
`04:28.09`	`kergoth`	`kerr: you're not listening. your stuff has always been wrong.`
`04:28.12`	`kergoth`	`this isnt somethign that has changed.`
`04:28.17`	`kerr`	`I know what you're sayingt`
`04:28.19`	`kergoth`	`most apps are written with the qtopia sdk for use on teh sharp rom`
`04:28.23`	`kergoth`	`and those run on opie as ell`
`04:28.24`	`kergoth`	`well`
`04:28.27`	`kerr`	`I'm saying, because its been so long, I've likely mixed up my ideas`
`04:28.31`	`kergoth`	`ah`
`04:28.41`	`kergoth`	`ERROR: Package tinylogin wants to install file /home/kergoth/oz/corgi/output/rootfs/sbin/sulogin`
`04:28.43`	`kerr`	`what I heard I may have forgotten parts of and think I know it when its not what i heard then`
`04:28.44`	`kergoth`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:28.48`	`kergoth`	`hmm, guess i need to yank sulogin from sysvinit now`
`04:28.53`	`kergoth`	`man, our upgrade paths are _hosed_ now`
`04:29.03`	`kergoth`	`moving files between packages like this is going to kill it horrible`
`04:29.04`	`frankps`	`so if I buy one, I could soon really use it. I didn't like having lots of it in Japanesee. But impreessed of the screen.`
`04:29.12`	`kergoth`	`frankps: the screen is amazing`
`04:29.23`	`treke\|home`	`scweeet. 2.4.19 preempt is running nicely`
`04:29.32`	`frankps`	`Playd with it one evening at trolltech here in oslo`
`04:29.32`	`kerr`	`alright, I'm out... thanks for the help`
`04:29.36`	`NeoTron`	`next kernel version (desktop) adds support for the axim..`
`04:29.37`	`NeoTron`	`hrm`
`04:29.51`	`kergoth`	`for usb networking? or..?`
`04:29.56`	`NeoTron`	`dunno`
`04:30.01`	`NeoTron`	`ChangeSet@1.1025, 2003-01-16 10:51:04-08:00, ganesh@tuxtop.vxindia.veritas.com`
`04:30.01`	`NeoTron`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:30.10`	`NeoTron`	`drivers/usb/serial/ipaq.c \| 2 ++`
`04:30.10`	`NeoTron`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:30.10`	`NeoTron`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:30.17`	`kergoth`	`ah, serial over usb`
`04:30.18`	`chouimat`	`what add support for the Axim?`
`04:30.23`	`treke\|home`	`hrm, I need a pcmcia network card`
`04:30.36`	`NeoTron`	`chouimat: linux kernel (desktop) for the USB`
`04:30.43`	`treke\|home`	`been so long since i've had a pcmcia ethernet lying around :)`
`04:30.44`	`chouimat`	`NeoTron: thanks`
`04:31.53`	`frankps`	`treke\|home: SiteCom has a real nice ethernet card working superbly with Zaurus, and best thing is that it's cheap too`
`04:32.14`	`frankps`	`CF card I mean`
`04:32.16`	`kergoth`	`frankps: he's talking pcmcia, not cf. he has an ipaq, not a zaurus`
`04:32.20`	`kergoth`	`:)`
`04:32.30`	`frankps`	`sorry about that`
`04:32.41`	`kergoth`	`bleh`
`04:32.59`	`NeoTron`	`I wonder how I install the drivers for the network card on the PocketPC`
`04:32.59`	`treke\|home`	`I might have another cf sleeve somewhere. I imagine pcmcia would be cheaper anyways`
`04:33.09`	`treke\|home`	`NeoTron: activesync`
`04:33.11`	`NeoTron`	`even though it should be ne2000 compatible..`
`04:33.25`	`NeoTron`	`treke\|home: uh. You need to use wincrap even if I can get files to it otherwise?`
`04:33.27`	`frankps`	`I had a iPAQ for two days, my wouldn't let me install opie on it, so I asked him to take the iPAQ with him as he left my office.`
`04:33.44`	`kergoth`	`your what?`
`04:34.01`	`treke\|home`	`NeoTron: then copy the drivers onto the axim and run the setup program`
`04:35.47`	`*** join/#zaurus icefox (~ben@ool-4351483a.dyn.optonline.net)`
`04:35.51`	`NeoTron`	`suppose I need to go the windows route. :-/`
`04:36.04`	`NeoTron`	`do yuou always need to use windows to install?`
`04:36.10`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: can be anything :)`
`04:36.14`	`chouimat`	`hi icefox`
`04:36.25`	`*** part/#zaurus icefox (~ben@ool-4351483a.dyn.optonline.net)`
`04:36.29`	`kergoth`	`frankps: 'my wouldnt let me install opie on it'? your _what_ wouldnt let you install opie on it? thats only half a sentence`
`04:36.33`	`treke\|home`	`NeoTron: depdns on the drivers`
`04:36.36`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`04:36.59`	`treke\|home`	`NeoTron: linksys just distributes an exe that you can load uonto the device however you wish`
`04:38.21`	`kergoth`	`cvs -z4 -d:pserver:cvs@pubcvs.arm.linux.org.uk:/mnt/src/cvsroot co tslib`
`04:38.21`	`kergoth`	`cvs server: warning: cannot write to history file /mnt/src/cvsroot/CVSROOT/history: Read-only file system`
`04:38.24`	`kergoth`	`eek!`
`04:38.28`	`kergoth`	`arm.linux.org.uk is messed`
`04:39.01`	`kergoth`	`shit`
`04:39.25`	`kergoth`	`now i cant work on tslib`
`04:39.28`	`kergoth`	`bleh`
`04:39.38`	`treke\|home`	`kergoth: maybe you should not work tonight`
`04:39.43`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: got an idea for you: SLEEP`
`04:39.50`	`kergoth`	`bah`
`04:39.59`	`kergoth`	`no, i should test tinylogin`
`04:40.01`	`kergoth`	`make sure it works`
`04:40.05`	`kergoth`	`make sure its suid in the image`
`04:40.18`	`kergoth`	`then hack on ugly keyboard code`
`04:40.53`	`NeoTron`	`uhm. what filesystem does pocketpc need?`
`04:40.54`	`*** join/#zaurus mrluisp (~mrluisp@pcp01584564pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net)`
`04:41.00`	`treke\|home`	`NeoTron: fat`
`04:41.00`	`chouimat`	`NeoTron: fat`
`04:41.10`	`*** join/#zaurus mandrake (~mandrake@gw.mandrake.net)`
`04:41.24`	`NeoTron`	`well, this is my "flash zaurus" card and it's fat16`
`04:41.27`	`NeoTron`	`doesn't work however`
`04:41.33`	`NeoTron`	`it prompts me to format it and finds no files`
`04:41.47`	`treke\|home`	`NeoTron: back it up then let windows format it`
`04:42.10`	`treke\|home`	`linux will still be able to read it`
`04:42.15`	`treke\|home`	`it isnt as picky`
`04:43.10`	`chouimat`	`treke\|home: my windows box is not able to read some of my os/2 fat-formated floppies for some reason`
`04:44.31`	`NeoTron`	`I must say I do like the Zaurus "launcher" in comparision`
`04:44.42`	`NeoTron`	`the tabbed interface is good really`
`04:45.02`	`warmi`	`NeoTron : yeah ... PPC can sometimes be a bit confusing`
`04:45.17`	`treke\|home`	`turn today into a tab :)`
`04:45.57`	`kergoth`	`need a modular pluginable launcher`
`04:46.06`	`warmi`	`well, active-sync works pretty much 100% - that is one of the thing I really like about PPC`
`04:46.13`	`chouimat`	`ok here we goes compiling kde3 on a thinkpad 760ed`
`04:46.33`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: kitchensync will probably work pretty well once it's realed`
`04:47.25`	`NeoTron`	`warmi: just want to get this nic driver into the device w/o windows. :P`
`04:47.28`	`warmi`	`I think the problem was with the drivers itself`
`04:47.57`	`warmi`	`NeoTron: you running windows on your desktop ?`
`04:48.37`	`NeoTron`	`no`
`04:48.47`	`NeoTron`	`but it seems I must use windows so..`
`04:48.53`	`warmi`	`no shit`
`04:48.55`	`warmi`	`heh`
`04:49.09`	`warmi`	`well, if you want to develop for this thing then of course you need windows`
`04:49.21`	`warmi`	`but for example Visual C++ embedded + entire IDE is free`
`04:49.27`	`warmi`	`so you are ready to go`
`04:50.36`	`warmi`	`VC++ embedded is pretty well integrated - after each build it will automatically download the executable to the device itself...`
`04:50.56`	`chouimat`	`warmi: I don't arm support in mine :(`
`04:50.57`	`kergoth`	`most board support packages have deployment, its not unique to vc++`
`04:51.06`	`warmi`	`of course, on the Zaurus side I just have a mounted samba partition and I copy shit manualy so there is not much difference there`
`04:51.19`	`warmi`	`kergoth : well not the zaurus :-)`
`04:51.26`	`kergoth`	`warmi: i'm not talking Z specific here.`
`04:51.32`	`warmi`	`yeah, I know`
`04:51.47`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: thats because qtopia sucks in many ways :)`
`04:51.47`	`warmi`	`I am just comparing it with Qtopia stuff`
`04:52.10`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: on the other hand you dont have to do all of your testing on the device with qtopia`
`04:52.15`	`warmi`	`but for example Qvfb is much better ...`
`04:52.28`	`warmi`	`it is not a real emulator but for some reason I prefer it than MS "real" emulator`
`04:52.36`	`*** join/#zaurus frankps (~frankps@10.80-202-169.nextgentel.com)`
`04:52.52`	`warmi`	`that Windows PPC emulator is quite shity - it is slow to start and crashes left and right`
`04:53.28`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: how is it speed wise? is it actually acting as an arm emulator or just an x86 wince?`
`04:53.59`	`warmi`	`NeoTron : personally, first this I noticed was that input (stylus) was much ... I would say, smooth in operation than on the zaurus`
`04:54.12`	`warmi`	`seems much better`
`04:54.13`	`kergoth`	`the zaurus's TS sucks.`
`04:54.16`	`kergoth`	`in 2.4.6 anyway`
`04:54.16`	`kergoth`	`;)`
`04:54.41`	`cbok`	`zgcc`
`04:54.49`	`kergoth`	`cbok: go look at my todo`
`04:54.56`	`kergoth`	`cbok: note the lack of gcc on it`
`04:54.58`	`cbok`	`you're the best`
`04:55.00`	`kergoth`	`cbok: :P`
`04:55.04`	`warmi`	`treke : it is ARM emulator`
`04:55.05`	`cbok`	`dude`
`04:55.19`	`cbok`	`at least let me throw a beer at you because i am in the same state`
`04:55.26`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: how was performance?`
`04:55.47`	`treke\|home`	`I'm guessing qtopia/x86 is probably a closer judge of performance than an arm emulator would be`
`04:55.50`	`warmi`	`kind of slow - which is good`
`04:55.50`	`kergoth`	`cbok: you're in MN atm? forgot about that`
`04:56.00`	`warmi`	`emulates slowness of the real thing :-)`
`04:56.15`	`cbok`	`kg - since.. sunday`
`04:56.48`	`cbok`	`kg - but hey, i mean, if gcc is not on your list, how would i expect your to recall me being in mn`
`04:56.51`	`warmi`	`treke : qvfb will run as fast as your desktop machine runs`
`04:56.54`	`kergoth`	`cbok: hah`
`04:57.03`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: yeah`
`04:57.05`	`cbok`	`:-D`
`04:57.08`	`kergoth`	`I have so much shit on my plate, you have no idea`
`04:57.08`	`warmi`	`so your apps will apear to fly on your desktop while (possibly) being slow like hell on the real thing`
`04:57.12`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`04:57.21`	`cbok`	`oh.. i know`
`04:57.37`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: guess it depends on the type of app`
`04:57.48`	`cbok`	`i had to stay in this frozen wasteland another day because of a full plate`
`04:58.02`	`kergoth`	`cbok: how long you stuck out here?`
`04:58.04`	`treke\|home`	`I imagine nothing is going to beat native for game developers`
`04:58.26`	`*** join/#zaurus MEGA\|Home (~megastep@home.megastep.org)`
`04:58.29`	`kergoth`	`why the hell does our ntpdate package depend on libelfg0`
`04:58.57`	`cbok`	`thursday i think..`
`04:59.05`	`cbok`	`i'm in st louis park - dt mpls`
`04:59.12`	`cbok`	`(both locations)`
`04:59.42`	`kergoth`	`heh, shit dood i work in minnetonka, like 10 minutes from st louis park. lets find a bar in the area or something`
`05:00.13`	`cbok`	`i am, as well in mntka`
`05:00.17`	`cbok`	`plymouth rd and 394`
`05:02.58`	`warmi`	`how cold it is out there now ?`
`05:03.55`	`kergoth`	`4 degrees F, -9 w/ windchill`
`05:03.59`	`treke\|home`	`ouch`
`05:03.59`	`kergoth`	`not bad`
`05:04.02`	`kergoth`	`could be worse`
`05:04.13`	`treke\|home`	`not by much`
`05:04.31`	`kergoth`	`i remember not being able to go to school because it was -45 w/ windchill`
`05:04.33`	`kergoth`	`it could be worse`
`05:04.47`	`chouimat`	`weatherbot: weatherbot cyqb`
`05:04.58`	`warmi`	`well, frozen wasteland - just like he said`
`05:05.12`	`treke\|home`	`you'd probably laugh out here`
`05:05.15`	`chouimat`	`weatherbot: weather cyqb`
`05:05.22`	`treke\|home`	`people are wearing jackets and it isnt even freezing`
`05:05.31`	`kergoth`	`not enough summer here, women only wear small amounts of clothes for like a month and a half`
`05:05.35`	`kergoth`	`then its all .. 12 layers again`
`05:05.39`	`chouimat`	`weatherbot weather cyqb`
`05:05.39`	`warmi`	`treke : and you are where ?`
`05:05.52`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: california`
`05:06.14`	`warmi`	`which part ? southern or northern ?`
`05:06.15`	`treke\|home`	`kergoth: thats not too bad`
`05:06.17`	`treke\|home`	`southern`
`05:06.34`	`treke\|home`	`kergoth: many of the women out hear wearing small amounts of clothes really ought to put more on`
`05:06.41`	`kergoth`	`aha`
`05:06.46`	`warmi`	`oh well, so .. like.. you ever seen real snow ?`
`05:06.47`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`05:06.57`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: a half dozen times or so`
`05:07.13`	`treke\|home`	`never at home`
`05:07.21`	`chouimat`	`warmi: look when I was in switzerland women weared fur coat at 8C`
`05:07.25`	`warmi`	`oh well .. you missed a lot of fun`
`05:07.37`	`kergoth`	`snowball fights.. sledding, etc`
`05:07.39`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: yup`
`05:07.40`	`kergoth`	`its great as a kid`
`05:07.43`	`kergoth`	`then you start driving`
`05:07.44`	`kergoth`	`and then it sucks`
`05:07.46`	`chouimat`	`fuck! it's snowing again`
`05:07.47`	`warmi`	`hehehe`
`05:08.06`	`chouimat`	`wtf? 25-35cm ...`
`05:08.08`	`oGMo`	`yeah, but it's great as long as you're in school, even if you have to drive`
`05:08.17`	`oGMo`	`graduate, and it sucks`
`05:08.22`	`kergoth`	`yeah`
`05:08.28`	`chouimat`	`yup ...`
`05:08.43`	`warmi`	`yeah , same thing here in Chicago - by next morning we supposed to have like 18 cm of that stuff`
`05:08.44`	`kergoth`	`our winters always suck. yet every single year, people are crashing into each other on the road again`
`05:08.49`	`chouimat`	`will need to shovel the drive way again :(`
`05:08.53`	`oGMo`	`heh yeah sounds like seattle`
`05:08.53`	`treke\|home`	`kergoth: same here`
`05:08.57`	`kergoth`	`its like we forgot how to drive in the snow over the past 10 months or whatever`
`05:09.02`	`kergoth`	`wtf?`
`05:09.02`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`05:09.04`	`treke\|home`	`kergoth: people cant figure out that you should go slower when it rains`
`05:09.05`	`oGMo`	`"A SNOW FLAKE! AAAAHHHH! crash"`
`05:09.19`	`warmi`	`kergoth: this is your typical " I thought it would never happen to me" thinking`
`05:09.19`	`NeoTron`	`man, wouldn't it be just SWELL if WindowsXP actually could FUCKING SUCCESSFULLY CONNECT TO THE DAMN POCKETPC!!!!!`
`05:09.20`	`treke\|home`	`"what do you mean it takes longer to stop"`
`05:09.20`	`chouimat`	`warmi: I'm getting betwen 25 and 35 cm of that white shit`
`05:09.21`	`NeoTron`	`fucking hell`
`05:09.23`	`oGMo`	`also similar to "A DROP OF RAIN! ..." and "THE SUN! ..."`
`05:09.24`	`kergoth`	`treke\|home: yeah, when it rains there are two kinds of people. the ones going 20, and the ones going 70`
`05:09.32`	`treke\|home`	`NeoTron: vmware?`
`05:09.37`	`NeoTron`	`error code 10, error code 45 - solution? FUCKING REINSTALL THE DRIVER`
`05:09.40`	`NeoTron`	`does it help? NO!`
`05:09.46`	`warmi`	`NeoTron : download latest ActiveSync`
`05:09.48`	`NeoTron`	`treke\|home: hardly possible using USB`
`05:09.54`	`warmi`	`I had no problem whatsoever`
`05:09.56`	`NeoTron`	`warmi: this is the driver for the device rather`
`05:09.57`	`warmi`	`first time and every time`
`05:10.03`	`treke\|home`	`NeoTron: VMware supports usb :)`
`05:10.38`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work : perhaps there is new ROM update available somewhere on Dells website`
`05:11.51`	`warmi`	`oh well, looks like not everything is swell in the Dells little world`
`05:12.08`	`warmi`	`perhaps I should get myself Viewsonic hehe`
`05:12.27`	`treke\|home`	`perhaps you should get a palm`
`05:12.57`	`treke\|home`	`if you want things to work`
`05:12.59`	`*** join/#zaurus nikki (nikki@202.57.88.37)`
`05:13.48`	`warmi`	`treke : PPC works fine`
`05:13.59`	`warmi`	`well, some of them do`
`05:14.25`	`warmi`	`on the other hand I still have that fucking problem with my ipaq where light will go out for no reason whatsoever ..`
`05:14.30`	`kergoth`	`goddamnit`
`05:14.36`	`kergoth`	`I've been trying to eat dinner all night`
`05:14.39`	`kergoth`	`i heat it in the microwave`
`05:14.41`	`kergoth`	`forget about it`
`05:14.44`	`kergoth`	`go back and heat it up again`
`05:14.47`	`kergoth`	`forget about it again`
`05:14.48`	`warmi`	`and then you forget it`
`05:14.49`	`warmi`	`hehehe`
`05:14.50`	`kergoth`	`this is the 4th time now`
`05:14.51`	`kergoth`	`lol`
`05:15.11`	`kergoth`	`time to stand impatiently by the microwave instead of returning to what i'm working on`
`05:15.11`	`warmi`	`get something new - chances are this shit is radio-or some other -active now`
`05:15.18`	`warmi`	`or at least poisonous ..`
`05:15.20`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`05:15.23`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kergoth: and your meal is now glowing in the night :)`
`05:15.47`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`05:15.49`	`warmi`	`kergoth : what is it ?`
`05:15.58`	`warmi`	`some cheap ass tv dinner ?`
`05:16.01`	`kergoth`	`leftover grilled chicken, rice, and green beans`
`05:16.08`	`warmi`	`ah ok`
`05:16.09`	`kergoth`	`was good lsat night.. cant be very good by now`
`05:16.16`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`http://www.killefiz.de/zaurus/showdetail.php?app=705`
`05:16.28`	`warmi`	`these beens are probably a little bit greener by now ..`
`05:17.00`	`kergoth`	`lets see, time to flash my new oz image and hope tinylogin works and is suid`
`05:17.55`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kergoth: http://www.killefiz.de/zaurus/showdetail.php?app=903`
`05:18.13`	`kergoth`	`cool`
`05:18.20`	`kergoth`	`i havent actually been to ZSI in like months`
`05:18.27`	`kergoth`	`any new software worth checking out?`
`05:18.44`	`treke\|home`	`kergoth: outliner looked cool`
`05:18.48`	`treke\|home`	`too bad its closed source`
`05:18.53`	`kergoth`	`that sucks`
`05:18.56`	`kergoth`	`i want a good outliner`
`05:19.02`	`kergoth`	`iqnotes is cool, but its UI sucks`
`05:19.03`	`treke\|home`	`kergoth: the author was going to gpl it`
`05:19.06`	`treke\|home`	`then he lost his job`
`05:19.12`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`05:19.13`	`warmi`	`there seem to be a steady stream of new software coming out for the zaurus`
`05:19.28`	`warmi`	`despite the fact that things don't look too bright for that device`
`05:19.30`	`kergoth`	`note to author: the cash from outliner is not enough income to support your jobless ass`
`05:19.50`	`treke\|home`	`kergoth: I didnt mention the fact that you have to pay for a commercial license to him :)`
`05:19.56`	`kergoth`	`hah`
`05:20.08`	`treke\|home`	`its a shame. not gpling it cost him 12 bucks :)`
`05:20.21`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`treke\|home: huh?`
`05:20.33`	`kergoth`	`heh, i wouldve thrown some cash his way, but fuck that now`
`05:20.55`	`treke\|home`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: I had the form on handango all filled out when I emailed him to double chack that it was actually gpled`
`05:21.06`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`ok`
`05:21.07`	`*** join/#zaurus do_guh_new (~Matthew@user-0cal915.cable.mindspring.com)`
`05:21.19`	`*** join/#zaurus revolution (~revolutio@adsl-77-249-109.jax.bellsouth.net)`
`05:21.23`	`do_guh_new`	`:)`
`05:21.45`	`warmi`	`do_guh_new still struggling with your RH ?`
`05:21.46`	`kergoth`	`damnit, i hate it when i have static, and i plug in myc ard reader`
`05:21.52`	`treke\|home`	`kergoth: got a copy of tkcmail. still need to check it out`
`05:21.53`	`*** join/#zaurus biafradog (~biafradog@Toronto-HSE-ppp3718350.sympatico.ca)`
`05:21.53`	`kergoth`	`and it zaps my usb hub and makes my PC do weird shit`
`05:21.57`	`do_guh_new`	`warmi: hey you remember me ya having a heck of time`
`05:22.00`	`kergoth`	`its frozen my linux box multiple times`
`05:22.08`	`do_guh_new`	`warmi: just wanna get my z on the net`
`05:22.20`	`*** part/#zaurus biafradog (~biafradog@Toronto-HSE-ppp3718350.sympatico.ca)`
`05:22.23`	`kergoth`	`? read the howtos. follow them`
`05:22.28`	`warmi`	`do_guh_new : yeah, I just got myself CF eithernet card ...`
`05:22.32`	`warmi`	`for like $30 or so`
`05:22.38`	`do_guh_new`	`warmi: ya that's my best bet`
`05:22.39`	`warmi`	`fuck USB - it never worked for me right`
`05:22.44`	`do_guh_new`	`ya`
`05:22.54`	`do_guh_new`	`I've been reading those damn howtos for 3 fucking hours now`
`05:22.59`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`05:23.07`	`*** join/#zaurus biafradog (~biafradog@Toronto-HSE-ppp3718350.sympatico.ca)`
`05:23.07`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`ok now I'm off, nite`
`05:23.11`	`kergoth`	`eh, reading it over and over isnt going to uncover some new magic information`
`05:23.13`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`05:23.13`	`warmi`	`see you chouimat\|Zzzz`
`05:23.15`	`do_guh_new`	`hehe`
`05:23.17`	`kergoth`	`night chouimat\|Zzzz`
`05:23.22`	`do_guh_new`	`bout as clear as sewage water`
`05:23.43`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`warmi: probably at 11h00am EST tomorrow :)`
`05:23.57`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`05:24.12`	`do_guh_new`	`hey walmart doesnt happen to sell CP ethernet cards do they? they're the only place open now`
`05:24.19`	`kergoth`	`heh, doubt it`
`05:24.21`	`do_guh_new`	`lol`
`05:24.23`	`do_guh_new`	`me too`
`05:24.27`	`warmi`	`do_guh_new : hehe .. no`
`05:24.35`	`warmi`	`I got mine from the web`
`05:24.45`	`warmi`	`of course, you have to wait :-)`
`05:24.49`	`do_guh_new`	`ya I shouldve ordered mine with my z`
`05:24.54`	`do_guh_new`	`oh waiting again`
`05:24.56`	`kergoth`	`whew. okay, oz 3.1rc3 is only pending one thing now, the samba server packages from docwhat`
`05:24.59`	`kergoth`	`woot`
`05:25.09`	`warmi`	`and believe me ... browsing the net from your Z is not all that exiting ..`
`05:25.17`	`do_guh_new`	`hehe`
`05:25.20`	`do_guh_new`	`Id like to know`
`05:25.22`	`do_guh_new`	`:)`
`05:25.26`	`warmi`	`actually what I found more exiting was ability to install shit from various feeds on the net`
`05:25.30`	`kergoth`	`its nice to install ipks from a feed`
`05:25.31`	`kergoth`	`yeah`
`05:25.32`	`kergoth`	`:)`
`05:25.44`	`NeoTron`	`fucking hell`
`05:25.45`	`do_guh_new`	`Id like to get it on the net so I can install the terminal and other various apps`
`05:25.52`	`kergoth`	`do_guh_new: buy a cf reader`
`05:25.53`	`NeoTron`	`how the hell hard can it possibly be?`
`05:26.01`	`kergoth`	`NeoTron: apparently pretty hard, eh`
`05:26.40`	`NeoTron`	`it connects and disconnecs and connects and disconnects`
`05:26.45`	`NeoTron`	`sum: it doesn't fucking wor`
`05:26.45`	`warmi`	`NeoTron : you must be doing something wrong ... I mean, if it was that fucked up , people would be bitchin all over the web by now`
`05:26.59`	`warmi`	`NeoTron : oh`
`05:27.01`	`warmi`	`I had that`
`05:27.04`	`warmi`	`I swear to God`
`05:27.06`	`warmi`	`I had that`
`05:27.36`	`warmi`	`but it had nothing to do with my device or anything - finally I connected a scanner and it was doing the same thing ( USB)`
`05:27.39`	`NeoTron`	`warmi: dude, there is nothing I CAN do wrong`
`05:27.45`	`NeoTron`	`I install active sync, I connect the USB`
`05:27.53`	`NeoTron`	`don't tell me I'm doing anything wrong`
`05:27.56`	`warmi`	`so I replaced entire USB in my machine`
`05:28.07`	`warmi`	`I think your USB port is fucked up`
`05:28.14`	`kergoth`	`my usb ports on my MB are hosed too`
`05:28.15`	`NeoTron`	`fucking hell`
`05:28.18`	`kergoth`	`i had to buy a usb card`
`05:28.18`	`warmi`	`have you tried connecting anything else ?`
`05:28.27`	`kergoth`	`i think its a pretty common problem`
`05:28.27`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`05:28.30`	`kergoth`	`pretty sad`
`05:28.35`	`warmi`	`that's how I figured out that it was fucked - I connected another USB device`
`05:28.37`	`NeoTron`	`wmware it is`
`05:29.44`	`warmi`	`kergoth ; yeah , exactly - I ended up buying a usb card`
`05:30.07`	`NeoTron`	`luckily I already have a vmware Win98 I used to install my cable modem because that didn't work on that box either (no USB invilved there though - other shit failed)`
`05:30.17`	`treke\|home`	`kergoth: you have one of the amd 760mpxs?`
`05:30.34`	`warmi`	`treke : I have AMD as well`
`05:31.01`	`warmi`	`kergoth : what kind of motherboard you have in your machine ?`
`05:31.23`	`treke\|home`	`those boards were so bad that manufactures shipped a pci usb card with the boards`
`05:31.38`	`warmi`	`well, mine had only obboard shit`
`05:32.01`	`warmi`	`which didn't work - or rather it work just like Neo described - on and off - driving me crazy`
`05:32.36`	`warmi`	`uh .. for some reason my CF card reader doesn't work anymore ...`
`05:32.51`	`warmi`	`oh well ... it was a $15 thing anyway`
`05:33.45`	`treke\|home`	`thats why I try not to buy low end hardware any more :)`
`05:33.51`	`warmi`	`treke : I forgot to ask - so you finally got that new ipaq 3600 ?`
`05:34.00`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: yeah got it right here`
`05:34.21`	`warmi`	`already got linux loaded on that thing ?`
`05:34.42`	`treke\|home`	`+yup`
`05:34.47`	`treke\|home`	`doesnt take long to reload ce`
`05:35.04`	`kergoth`	`treke\|home: seperate tinylogin and util-linux mount is working fine`
`05:35.22`	`kergoth`	`so should be able to login at console as a user again :)`
`05:35.26`	`kergoth`	`er now`
`05:35.30`	`kergoth`	`since you've never been able to before`
`05:35.31`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`05:35.45`	`warmi`	`considering the fact that you already have two ipaqs - perhaps next time you should get yourself a Zaurus - you know since you are sitting on this channel and all ..`
`05:35.46`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`05:35.55`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: maybe ;)`
`05:36.08`	`kergoth`	`get a c700, you know you want one`
`05:36.11`	`kergoth`	`;)`
`05:36.23`	`kergoth`	`hey look, util-linux fdisk doesnt bus error`
`05:36.25`	`kergoth`	`nifty`
`05:36.28`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: I've actually been waiting for a Z I like :)`
`05:36.32`	`warmi`	`one thing I am not sure anymore is how it is going to perform ...`
`05:36.36`	`treke\|home`	`a c700 would be tempting`
`05:36.42`	`warmi`	`I mean 640x480 is like 4 times as many pixels to push`
`05:36.52`	`warmi`	`and since that 400 is really piece of shit .. who knows`
`05:37.00`	`cbok`	`ooooooh`
`05:37.02`	`cbok`	`c700`
`05:37.07`	`kergoth`	`warmi: throw me a benchmark`
`05:37.10`	`kergoth`	`warmi: FPS or something`
`05:37.13`	`kergoth`	`warmi: i'll test it out`
`05:37.28`	`*** join/#zaurus do_guh_new (~Matthew@user-0cal915.cable.mindspring.com)`
`05:37.31`	`warmi`	`go to ZSI and download ZSurface ...`
`05:37.34`	`kergoth`	`k`
`05:37.47`	`warmi`	`but that needs to be run in 5500 compatibility mode`
`05:38.07`	`kergoth`	`ah, so we'll see how it does without having to push 4 times as many pixels`
`05:38.09`	`warmi`	`kergoth : hopefull C700 has either 5500 or A 300 framebuffer rotation`
`05:38.12`	`kergoth`	`good test for the cpu`
`05:38.19`	`kergoth`	`i dont care if its sideways`
`05:38.24`	`kergoth`	`i can tell you how its rotation is, btw`
`05:38.35`	`kergoth`	`when horizontal w/ keyboard, its 90 degrees`
`05:38.38`	`kergoth`	`when upright, its 0`
`05:38.46`	`warmi`	`well, I am pretty sure that compatibility mode is just like 5500`
`05:38.54`	`cbok`	`you realize kg, i only wanna meet for a beer to see the c700`
`05:38.56`	`cbok`	`fyi`
`05:39.02`	`warmi`	`hehehehe`
`05:39.06`	`kergoth`	`yes, compatibility mode is rotated`
`05:39.20`	`kergoth`	`its actually always the same rotation regardless of how your qtopia is rotated at the moment`
`05:39.24`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`05:39.28`	`warmi`	`kergoth : when you have some time - check it out and write down FPS for each mode ( alpha , etc ..)`
`05:39.34`	`kergoth`	`warmi: will do`
`05:39.36`	`warmi`	`I wonder how it will do on C 700`
`05:40.08`	`warmi`	`A 300 was about 10-20 slower than 5500`
`05:40.12`	`warmi`	`which is not bad`
`05:40.17`	`kergoth`	`i'm bored, i think i'll add evas to the buildroot`
`05:40.21`	`warmi`	`not bad at all considering it runs that piece of shit`
`05:40.27`	`warmi`	`kergoth : hehehe`
`05:40.35`	`warmi`	`yeah, I wonder how evas will perform`
`05:40.46`	`*** join/#zaurus Infamous (~qwerty@155.33.158.167)`
`05:40.59`	`kergoth`	`warmi: going to add tslib support to evas if its not there already, throw a patch off to raster`
`05:40.59`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: funny thing about the Z is they keep coming close to a pda I'd buy in a heartbeat :)`
`05:41.03`	`warmi`	`raster was claiming it was pretty fast`
`05:41.20`	`kergoth`	`stupid z battery driver`
`05:41.23`	`kergoth`	`'start check battery !'`
`05:41.27`	`kergoth`	`me: "fuck you !"`
`05:41.35`	`warmi`	`treke : close ?`
`05:41.47`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: both the c700 are really close`
`05:41.58`	`do_guh_new`	`wonder if orifice depot has CF net cards`
`05:41.59`	`kergoth`	`how is a c700 both of anything?`
`05:42.07`	`warmi`	`kergoth these things dont' work (fuck you, you piece of shit) - I have tried them all`
`05:42.08`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`05:42.12`	`kergoth`	`warmi: damn`
`05:42.18`	`treke\|home`	`if they tossed a 1400mah battery into the c700 I'd buy it before the day was out`
`05:42.40`	`treke\|home`	`similarly if they tossed another 16-32mb of ram into the 5600 I'd get one`
`05:42.52`	`kergoth`	`too bad the b500 battery,, you cant put the battery cover back on in teh c700`
`05:42.57`	`*** join/#zaurus effy-kun (~none@216.251.50.73)`
`05:42.57`	`raster`	`kergoth: youd want to add that to ecore_fbe actually :) not evas`
`05:42.58`	`warmi`	`treke : I don't really care for that much - I can carry a little battery in my backpack if need be`
`05:42.59`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`05:43.03`	`kergoth`	`raster: ah`
`05:43.12`	`kergoth`	`raster: hey i'd have figured that out eventually.`
`05:43.13`	`raster`	`evas ONLY does output`
`05:43.16`	`raster`	`it doesnt even allocate a tty`
`05:43.17`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: the removable battery does make up for it a bit`
`05:43.25`	`raster`	`it just dtarts writing to /dev/fb`
`05:43.38`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: the kernel situtation is a bit of a concern, but I could live with it`
`05:43.39`	`warmi`	`treke: I would not even dare to carry C 700 with me around`
`05:43.41`	`raster`	`i relies on the app to do all the rest of those goodies`
`05:43.48`	`warmi`	`this is an expensive piece of shit man`
`05:43.49`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`05:43.49`	`kergoth`	`raster: ah, what handles vt swtiching (stopping drawing when not on foreground vt, etc)`
`05:43.57`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: hehe`
`05:44.06`	`treke\|home`	`warmi: yeah i wouldnt get one at the 700 dollar price`
`05:44.07`	`effy-kun`	`anyone know how to scrub a HDD of all it's data?`
`05:44.08`	`raster`	`ecore_fb eos the touchscreen, tty allocation, locking, releasing, keyboard, butotn drivin g etc.`
`05:44.11`	`treke\|home`	`thats unreasonable`
`05:44.22`	`kergoth`	`raster: cool`
`05:44.23`	`raster`	`ecore_evas wraps it up in a nice package so you dont know what display target you are using at all`
`05:44.23`	`raster`	`:)`
`05:44.39`	`raster`	`i just added thre vt handling last week`
`05:44.43`	`raster`	`havent tested on the ipaq yet`
`05:44.45`	`raster`	`only desktop`
`05:44.50`	`raster`	`it does work`
`05:44.52`	`raster`	`:)`
`05:44.54`	`kergoth`	`raster: suggestions on packaging?`
`05:44.55`	`warmi`	`effy-kun : you mean like FBI-proff scrub or your wife-proff scrub ?`
`05:44.56`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`05:45.04`	`kergoth`	`raster: i.e. how to split this stuff up`
`05:45.30`	`raster`	`kergoth: ecoe itself can be split into 1 lib per lib.. it alerady does that at compile time - each module is its own lib.`
`05:45.41`	`raster`	`kergoth: evas is just a big lump.`
`05:45.48`	`kergoth`	`gotcha`
`05:45.50`	`effy-kun`	`warmi: exactly`
`05:46.04`	`kergoth`	`so i'll follow debian package naming, libblah0, etc, then just 'evas'`
`05:46.06`	`kergoth`	`eh?`
`05:46.19`	`raster`	`ooh`
`05:46.27`	`raster`	`well the packages come with .spec files for rpm`
`05:46.33`	`effy-kun`	`warmi: I want to scrub the entire disk of all data and traces of it`
`05:46.34`	`*** join/#zaurus sig (~sig@h-66-167-137-45.STTNWAHO.covad.net)`
`05:46.34`	`raster`	`evas is just evas`
`05:46.42`	`raster`	`ecore is just ecore...`
`05:46.47`	`raster`	`i havent got a spec file for ecore yet tho`
`05:46.48`	`raster`	`:)`
`05:46.50`	`warmi`	`effy-kun : on Linux I asume ?`
`05:46.52`	`raster`	`well not he new stuff`
`05:46.52`	`kergoth`	`k`
`05:46.57`	`raster`	`its up to you tho`
`05:47.07`	`raster`	`but it makes life easier if you follow the rpms`
`05:47.12`	`warmi`	`I think there are programs that will basically overwrite everything with 0 couple of times over`
`05:47.15`	`warmi`	`just to be sure`
`05:47.15`	`kergoth`	`raster: we've given more thought to how to make the OE infrastructure benefit app writers, you'll definately like what we're doing ;)`
`05:47.18`	`warmi`	`but I don't know details`
`05:47.20`	`raster`	`but if its more important that libs are lib<blah> then you can do that too`
`05:47.27`	`effy-kun`	`warmi: I want to even scrub the OS`
`05:47.45`	`kergoth`	`effy-kun: I have a c700 test OZ image fyi`
`05:47.53`	`warmi`	`yeah, I guess you would run that thing from floppy or something`
`05:48.02`	`warmi`	`I never done that before though - so I don't know details`
`05:48.10`	`Bala`	`effy-kun: crack open the HD and wire brush scrub the platters :)`
`05:48.35`	`raster`	`kergoth: i dont have time this week due to friends in town, wedding, post wedding stuff etc. but i'll be lookin gat putting oz on the ipaq next week. you probabyl dont need tslib at all either. the ts stuff is laready in ecore_fb - all that it needs is some code to open a different device and read in data differently - maybe calibrate differently.. and it's all goo d:)`
`05:48.49`	`effy-kun`	`kergoth: I now have plenty of time to give it a try. I will try that soon.`
`05:48.59`	`effy-kun`	`Bala: too inconvenient`
`05:49.22`	`kergoth`	`raster: right, but I'm switching both X and qt/e to use tslib, to move both calibration, ts filtering, and ts device naming and ts structure differences into a single place. so I may as well use it for evas in OZ as well`
`05:49.27`	`kergoth`	`raster: :)`
`05:49.42`	`*** join/#zaurus NeoTron (~neotron@12-208-181-224.client.attbi.com)`
`05:49.42`	`*** mode/#zaurus [+o NeoTron] by ChanServ`
`05:49.59`	`kergoth`	`NeoTron: wb`
`05:50.20`	`NeoTron`	`time to try my luck win vmware win98`
`05:50.35`	`NeoTron`	`my box fucked up because I compiled the vmware drivers using gcc 3.2 while the kernel is, well not. :P`
`05:50.45`	`NeoTron`	`then it fucked up at booting because the route was bad`
`05:51.45`	`raster`	`kergoth: ok. sounds good - tho i'd make it "optional" as i like to keep requirements to a minimum :)`
`05:51.53`	`kergoth`	`raster: certainly`
`05:52.07`	`effy-kun`	`wtf are all these stupid programs for? I want to scrub the hard disk, not rub it's fucking back!`
`05:52.16`	`raster`	`but i dont have a problem with that otherwise`
`05:52.40`	`warmi`	`effy-kun :http://download.com.com/3000-2092-10188745.html?tag=lst-0-9`
`05:52.41`	`warmi`	`hehehe`
`05:52.47`	`NeoTron`	`funny thing is that this vmware box is much faster than the pc. :P`
`05:53.00`	`NeoTron`	`cool, it's detected. :P`
`05:53.07`	`NeoTron`	`fucking yay!`
`05:53.26`	`warmi`	`for what ?`
`05:53.37`	`effy-kun`	`sweet`
`05:53.40`	`warmi`	`well, I'l take it anyway ..`
`05:53.42`	`NeoTron`	`telling me it most likely was a fucked usb hardware rather`
`05:53.45`	`warmi`	`heh`
`05:53.55`	`*** part/#zaurus revolution (~revolutio@adsl-77-249-109.jax.bellsouth.net)`
`05:54.04`	`warmi`	`well, it was for me and for kergoth so you are third`
`05:54.22`	`NeoTron`	`and thanks to .. treke was it? for telling me vmware indeed has usb`
`05:54.25`	`warmi`	`perhaps if it turns out we are using the same boards .... that is the brand to avoid`
`05:54.43`	`kergoth`	`raster: still using the evas2 module on the branch, or is the new stuff in HEAD in evas/ now?`
`05:54.52`	`kergoth`	`raster: havent kept up on whats going on`
`05:55.11`	`raster`	`kergoth: oits all in HEAD for evas.`
`05:55.14`	`kergoth`	`cool`
`05:55.16`	`kergoth`	`thanks`
`05:55.16`	`raster`	`in fact....`
`05:55.24`	`raster`	`i just did a sourceforge release today`
`05:55.31`	`*** part/#zaurus do_guh_new (~Matthew@user-0cal915.cable.mindspring.com)`
`05:55.44`	`effy-kun`	`see ya guys later`
`05:55.50`	`kergoth`	`later effy`
`05:55.52`	`raster`	`http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=2`
`05:55.58`	`raster`	`thats evas's latest`
`05:56.07`	`raster`	`all there for you to use`
`05:56.13`	`raster`	`ecore is in SPLIT tho`
`05:56.21`	`raster`	`:(`
`05:56.29`	`warmi`	`holly crap - that's a lot of code`
`05:58.03`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`05:58.15`	`NeoTron`	`wonder wrf it's getting an old gateway...`
`05:58.54`	`kergoth`	`raster: ah, alrighty, thanks`
`05:59.35`	`*** join/#zaurus sig (~sig@h-66-167-137-45.STTNWAHO.covad.net)`
`06:00.32`	`raster`	`i was considering doing an ecore release`
`06:00.35`	`raster`	`but not yet...`
`06:00.42`	`raster`	`it needs to "settle" methinks`
`06:01.41`	`mandrake`	`like a new hairdo`
`06:03.08`	`NeoTron`	`the axim has a very nice and bright screen too`
`06:03.49`	`warmi`	`better than the Zaurus ?`
`06:03.52`	`NeoTron`	`yes`
`06:04.03`	`warmi`	`is not tinted in any way /`
`06:04.04`	`mandrake`	`I like the axim`
`06:04.06`	`warmi`	`?`
`06:04.12`	`mandrake`	`it's a very nice device`
`06:04.17`	`warmi`	`I think my ipaq is slightly "bluish"`
`06:04.18`	`NeoTron`	`I first thought the light was dimmed on the zaurus after doing soms stuff on the dell`
`06:04.29`	`NeoTron`	`I don't think it's tinted but I don't know`
`06:04.32`	`NeoTron`	`I'm colorblind. :P`
`06:04.59`	`warmi`	`well, as compared to the zaurus it has that sligh blue tinted look to it`
`06:06.28`	`NeoTron`	`and I am installing the driver..`
`06:07.11`	`NeoTron`	`damn, it boots fast too`
`06:07.39`	`NeoTron`	`and I got working network`
`06:07.40`	`NeoTron`	`nice nice`
`06:08.02`	`kergoth`	`have i cursed libtool yet today?`
`06:08.06`	`treke\|home`	`kergoth: nope`
`06:08.10`	`treke\|home`	`~lart gnu`
`06:10.13`	`kergoth`	`hmmm`
`06:24.45`	`*** join/#zaurus Davv (Davv@new-65-28-158-46.new.rr.com)`
`06:27.17`	`mspencer`	`OK, my 9000 mAh batteries have been trickle-charging at 270 mA for like four days now.`
`06:27.25`	`mspencer`	`Shall I try to rig them up in parallel and see what explodes? ^__^`
`06:29.36`	`kergoth`	`mm explosions`
`06:31.13`	`mspencer`	`pack 1, voltage with no load == 5.63v`
`06:32.32`	`mspencer`	`pack 2, voltage with no load == 5.57v`
`06:33.08`	`mspencer`	`and as a sanity check, I'll short the negatives together and check the voltage across the (unconnected) positives`
`06:35.51`	`mspencer`	`voltage difference: 48.3 mv (or 0.0483v +/- 5%)`
`06:37.11`	`*** join/#zaurus kergoth (~Kergoth@c-66-41-34-199.mn.client2.attbi.com)`
`06:37.11`	`*** mode/#zaurus [+o kergoth] by ChanServ`
`06:37.19`	`kergoth`	`hm, irssi in cygwin`
`06:37.21`	`kergoth`	`spiffy`
`06:37.30`	`mspencer`	`OK, so if I use a 2 ohm resistor I'll get at most 24 mA of current between the batteries.`
`06:38.28`	`mspencer`	`Specs say a safe trickle charge level (as in, leave it on 24x7 to keep the batteries topped all the time) is between 270 mA and 450 mA, so I think I'm fine. finds 2 ohm resistor`
`06:38.41`	`kergoth`	`bleh`
`06:40.35`	`NeoTron`	`install is also easier on PocketPC`
`06:40.46`	`NeoTron`	`since you don't have to manually transfer stuff to the device etc`
`06:48.40`	`*** join/#zaurus sukoshi_ (~sukoshi@dyn-212-232-38-235.ppp.tiscali.fr) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`06:48.43`	`*** join/#zaurus sukoshi_ (~sukoshi@dyn-212-232-38-235.ppp.tiscali.fr) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`06:49.08`	`mspencer`	`OK, batteries are in parallel with a 2.2 ohm resistor across them.`
`06:49.30`	`mspencer`	`voltage across the resistor is 34.8 mv and dropping`
`06:51.07`	`mspencer`	`34.4 mv, and I'm trying to figure out how much power is going where...`
`06:55.00`	`*** join/#zaurus sukoshi_ (~sukoshi@dyn-212-232-38-235.ppp.tiscali.fr) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`06:57.23`	`mspencer`	`OK, 1.1 ohm resistor, voltage across the resistor == 25.0 mv and dropping`
`07:02.12`	`mspencer`	`22.8 mv and dropping, and the batteries are cooling off :)`
`07:11.01`	`*** join/#zaurus sukoshi_ (~sukoshi@dyn-212-232-38-235.ppp.tiscali.fr) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`07:11.12`	`*** join/#zaurus gaurdian (ovsjiv@12-213-124-251.client.attbi.com)`
`07:19.01`	`mspencer`	`0.6 ohms now...^____^`
`07:40.52`	`mark`	`NeoTron: sure`
`07:41.13`	`warmi`	`mark you are already up ?`
`07:43.06`	`mark`	`NeoTron: yeap, just about to head for school :/`
`07:43.49`	`Twiun`	`hey mark`
`07:44.02`	`Twiun`	`whatcha doing up at this godforsaken hour?`
`07:46.06`	`mark`	`hi Twiun. same for you :).`
`07:46.15`	`mark`	`i've got to leave for school in`
`07:46.20`	`mark`	`~3 mins`
`07:46.36`	`Twiun`	`argh`
`07:46.46`	`Twiun`	`I think I'll go back to bed :)`
`07:46.58`	`mark`	`good move`
`07:47.13`	`*** join/#zaurus lsmith (~vandal@p213.54.14.236.tisdip.tiscali.de)`
`07:48.23`	`mark`	`c ya all`
`08:15.33`	`mspencer`	`Twin battery packs are plugged in, in parallel. Voltage difference between the packs is 1.5 milivolts, so I'd call that pretty much stable. Voltage at the lead that will plug into my C700 when I get it: 5.5 volts with no load.`
`08:15.43`	`*** join/#zaurus Trinity (~ast@Charybdis.suse.de)`
`08:17.31`	`mspencer`	`now I just need the Zaurus, and I'll have a battery pack I can leave in my school bookbag, run a wire out to the Z as if it were an AC adapter plug, and I'll have 18000 mAh of battery life! That's like...one or two days! ^__^`
`08:20.49`	`NeoTron`	`hey again`
`08:21.02`	`mspencer`	`heya :)`
`08:21.03`	`gaurdian`	`Uh...just dont like walk into any airports with wires sticking out ya backpack :)`
`08:21.05`	`gaurdian`	`but other than that congrats`
`08:21.15`	`mspencer`	`thanks :)`
`08:21.34`	`mspencer`	`I can't believe it took nearly four days to slow-charge those damn D cells!`
`08:22.31`	`mspencer`	`I did the math and the theoretical time should've been around 50 hours...but then again, there were two nights where they were charging when I went to bed and not charging when I woke up, because of the 20 hour "safety timer"...`
`08:22.40`	`mspencer`	`so maybe more like 3 days...still too much...`
`08:23.48`	`mspencer`	`and watch, it'll probably only take 4 hours before the pack is drained just barely low enough that the charging circuit refuses to admit its presence any more :)`
`08:24.08`	`mspencer`	`then I'll be adding a fifth battery and a diode ^__^`
`08:25.49`	`mspencer`	`seriously, I wonder...if I were sitting in a terminal, with a bookbag sitting in the seat next to me, a C700 in my hands being tinkered with...`
`08:26.12`	`mspencer`	`and a black wire looking like anything that comes out of a power transformer, running from my bookbag to the Z...do you think that'd attract attention?`
`08:26.42`	`gaurdian`	`uh.....why do you think it WOULDENT attract attention ? I would sure notice it`
`08:27.09`	`mspencer`	`thick-ass red and black wires with fuse holders and lumpy soldered connections, hell yeah ^__^ But besides noticing it, would you think it was suspicious?`
`08:27.41`	`gaurdian`	`Not like I would call the cops or anything, I would shoot you myself :) seriousely, it would make me wonder to be honest`
`08:27.52`	`mspencer`	`yeah...true...`
`08:27.56`	`gaurdian`	`I would honestly look a few times and wonder`
`08:28.07`	`mspencer`	`A friend had a weird idea...`
`08:28.23`	`gaurdian`	`BUT....if you were asked you could always show em also...so I think youre ok`
`08:28.28`	`mspencer`	`paint the green batteries black, get some old Duracell D cells...carefully remove the outer metal stuff, and try to make my batteries look a bit more normal :)`
`08:28.48`	`mspencer`	`but then it's obvious I"m hiding something. I think naked green batteries and a paper invoice should clear me :)`
`08:28.55`	`gaurdian`	`yup`
`08:29.26`	`gaurdian`	`That and the fact that the unit just happens to fit EXACTLY the power unit for a Z`
`08:29.42`	`mspencer`	`yeah :)`
`08:29.53`	`gaurdian`	`I would wonder definately, but I would also believe you considering you have invoice and all`
`08:29.59`	`mspencer`	`one source of confusion/curiosity though...`
`08:30.03`	`mspencer`	`my fuses.`
`08:30.17`	`mspencer`	`The 5A slow-blow is a nice normal clear fuse, with visible element and everything...`
`08:30.38`	`mspencer`	`the two 15A fast-acting look a bit strange. They seem to be grey-ish solid tubes of something. Completely opaque, and not smooth on the outside.`
`08:30.42`	`gaurdian`	`Now, if you had , lets say a "Praise Allah" shirt and a "Go Ossama" headband I might get a little testy`
`08:31.00`	`mspencer`	`like, I could be hiding some kinda material inside the fuse-shaped objects, but I dunno...`
`08:31.39`	`mspencer`	`should I get rid of those and shop around for some clear-looking normal-ish fuses in 15A sizes?`
`08:31.51`	`gaurdian`	`Then again, I am the guy in a business suit that gets singled out for a search at every airport.`
`08:31.58`	`gaurdian`	`I donno`
`08:31.59`	`mspencer`	`heh :)`
`08:32.44`	`gaurdian`	`Comming back from Boston last month it was me and the nun that were pulled aside to be searched :(`
`08:32.49`	`mspencer`	`I got four-fuse packs -- I'm tempted to start shorting leads just to hear em pop ^__^`
`08:32.54`	`warmi`	`hehehe`
`08:32.56`	`gaurdian`	`heh`
`08:33.00`	`mspencer`	`Gotta watch out for those nuns :)`
`08:33.44`	`gaurdian`	`4.5gigs over a 11mb wifi network, any bets on transfer time ?`
`08:34.13`	`mspencer`	`seriously, I'm considering taking a 10 ohm resistor and shorting the Zaurus-side connector. That should give me a 500 mA load...and warm the resistor up pretty well...`
`08:34.38`	`gaurdian`	`considering I know ZERO about electronics....I guess so`
`08:34.43`	`mspencer`	`ah, sorry :)`
`08:34.46`	`gaurdian`	`NP`
`08:35.04`	`mspencer`	`500 mA is a shade under what a Z would use with the backlight on full and a wifi card running...`
`08:35.05`	`gaurdian`	`Its like my car to me, I want to turn the key and go....I dont care how or why....`
`08:35.14`	`mspencer`	`yeah :)`
`08:36.03`	`mspencer`	`unless I get a 1 ohm resistor by mistake. Then I'm pulling 5 amps, and popping a fuse. ^__^`
`08:36.27`	`gaurdian`	`My accountant started expaining all this accounting stuff to me Friday, I was like look, I wont tell you how to do my books, you back off the sys admin stuff`
`08:36.41`	`gaurdian`	`same theory`
`08:36.45`	`mspencer`	`yeah :)`
`08:37.01`	`mspencer`	`I get the feeling I'm not quite in the same income bracket as the rest of yas.`
`08:37.21`	`mspencer`	`I just ordered a C700 from Dynamism, but I make about $13/hr working for a bank, and am also a full-time student ^__^`
`08:37.25`	`gaurdian`	`ell, maby , maby not. Personally, people are people to me`
`08:37.33`	`mspencer`	`true, but it's interesting trivia :)`
`08:37.45`	`gaurdian`	`well shit, youre a full time student....give it time man`
`08:37.51`	`mspencer`	`I'm also 26...`
`08:38.00`	`gaurdian`	`ahh...see.....it takes time`
`08:38.37`	`warmi`	`mspencer : studying CS ?`
`08:38.48`	`gaurdian`	`well, I also do a little over 60hrs a week`
`08:38.55`	`gaurdian`	`so there are trade offs`
`08:38.58`	`mspencer`	`yes, I'm a senior-year CS student.`
`08:39.04`	`gaurdian`	`cool`
`08:39.12`	`mspencer`	`my uni has a masters program, but I'm not sure...`
`08:39.43`	`mspencer`	`but I should be able to put software on the C700 for all four of my classes.`
`08:40.08`	`mspencer`	`Elementary Japanese 2 (not quite a challenge :) ), something about databases, something about networking, and something about number theory and crypto.`
`08:40.34`	`mspencer`	`(the language is certainly a challenge, but fun too -- I'm saying finding C700 software to help with Japanese won't be a challenge :) )`
`08:41.23`	`gaurdian`	`welp bedtime here, laters`
`08:41.35`	`mspencer`	`later :)`
`08:41.49`	`warmi`	`later`
`08:42.15`	`warmi`	`almost 3 am`
`08:42.18`	`warmi`	`oh well`
`08:44.23`	`mspencer`	`(I was tricked. "Ooh, Number Theory and Cryptography! That sounds interesting! I like info security, so I'll love anything with cryptography in it!")`
`08:44.41`	`warmi`	`heh`
`08:44.51`	`warmi`	`well, it is all math after all`
`08:44.53`	`mspencer`	`twenty thousand paragraph proofs about silly integer and modulo crap later...`
`08:45.02`	`mspencer`	`heh yeah, true :)`
`08:45.33`	`mspencer`	`ooh, chinese remainder theorem! Ooh, Pollard Rho method for some number thing or other...`
`08:46.17`	`mspencer`	`I have a new respect for anything number theory like with "chinese" in the title now.`
`08:46.21`	`warmi`	`indeterminate analysis/disired congruences/etc etc ......`
`08:46.29`	`warmi`	`man, good thing I have all this shit behind me`
`08:46.35`	`mspencer`	`envy`
`08:47.05`	`mspencer`	`The prof grades all our papers himself, which is pretty damn cool...little notes and discussion on everything we do wrong...`
`08:47.37`	`nerdboy`	`mspencer: after school, the money only looks good on paper...`
`08:47.37`	`mspencer`	`and when he hands back homework, it's in three piles: the math majors taking this class for graduate credit, for undergraduate credit...and...the computer science students.`
`08:47.52`	`warmi`	`I guess if you want to become a true Computer Scientist this stuff is usefull - but from my experience people genereally forget most of this stuff`
`08:48.00`	`mspencer`	`There's like five of us computer science students. :)`
`08:48.08`	`mspencer`	`I really do want to go into this stuff...I think.`
`08:48.19`	`mspencer`	`It's really interesting...but motivation-wise, I like helping people.`
`08:48.47`	`mspencer`	`Ever since I was a child, I got a real kick out of taking this special geeky talent and helping people with it. Half like I was justifying the time and effort I was putting into learning it, saying "see, this really is useful"...`
`08:48.58`	`mspencer`	`and half because I really like helping people and hearing them say thank-you.`
`08:49.22`	`warmi`	`yeah, unless you are working with some engineering stuff - most of the standard programming or what CS grads do int he real world doesn't require more than a high school math ...`
`08:49.33`	`mspencer`	`That would seem to make me a good fit for a benevolent network admin, and not such a good fit for a full-time programmer.`
`08:49.40`	`warmi`	`hehehe`
`08:50.03`	`mspencer`	`so I see what you're saying -- this is all interesting, but I don't know if I'll apply it quite so much.`
`08:50.23`	`mspencer`	`My desire for C/S learning is still too people-oriented, not science-oriented.`
`08:50.33`	`warmi`	`yeah .. I guess, altough for example in my case I have to often deal with people ( customer reps) coming to me with problems .. etc .. and sort of look up to me like to a God`
`08:50.38`	`warmi`	`for I can solve all their problems`
`08:50.45`	`warmi`	`and then they go away happy like children`
`08:50.50`	`nerdboy`	`try a graduate analysis course: infinte dimensional vector spaces...`
`08:50.55`	`warmi`	`and you are right - it makes you feel good`
`08:50.59`	`mspencer`	`I'd run out of paper.`
`08:51.16`	`nerdboy`	`hilbert space is a nice place to visit, but...`
`08:51.51`	`mspencer`	`My current job with first national (foomp.com) is just terminal technical support...I've been here for a year, and finally I've got managers coming to me for trivial database chores they seem to think they couldn't justify actually giving to a real business analyst. :)`
`08:52.06`	`warmi`	`C/S is not exactly people oriented .. I mean you need to have a pretty good imagination to project most of this stuff you learn into human "every day" sort of universe`
`08:52.49`	`mspencer`	`credit card terminal tech support -- phone queues and wireless headsets, same job position as 10 other people on at the same time, and mostly business owners calling in. So I feel kinda blessed that people let me do database stuff.`
`08:53.06`	`warmi`	`mspencer : well, everyone starts like that`
`08:53.20`	`mspencer`	`Yeah, true...I do seem to have developed a talent for explaining some complex things in a simple way, but it takes me a while.`
`08:53.35`	`Twiun`	`mspencer: see if they can't change your job title to put that in somehow - even if it doesn't mean any pay rise`
`08:53.44`	`mspencer`	`the listener has to suffer through two or three aborted confusing versions before I come up with something that clicks :)`
`08:53.48`	`Twiun`	`mspencer: it'd be useful for the next job`
`08:53.59`	`mspencer`	`I was just talking to someone informally about that today :)`
`08:54.02`	`warmi`	`I mean, we keep hearing stories about Andersen and his work on exiting new browser technology while in college .. but in reality most people just do their "time" before moving onto more interesting stuff`
`08:54.21`	`mspencer`	`and they all seem to know that my motivation for taking on all these projects, is good karma for when I put in a transfer to one of the IT related departments. :)`
`08:54.34`	`warmi`	`heh`
`08:54.37`	`Twiun`	`hahaha`
`08:55.00`	`mspencer`	`(that was funny?)`
`08:55.13`	`warmi`	`Twiun : you still remember your calculus ?`
`08:55.25`	`warmi`	`all this stuff you spend hours and hours ..`
`08:55.26`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`08:55.26`	`mspencer`	`that's that thing with the big squiggly S, right? ^__^`
`08:55.40`	`mspencer`	`Calc was 1994-1995...X__X`
`08:56.47`	`mspencer`	`They know I'm still safe, because I've got at least one more year to go on my degree, and I always tell them this is a perfect job to keep while going to school...`
`08:57.07`	`mspencer`	`so I think they can align themselves with my goal. I think they can respect that.`
`08:57.55`	`mspencer`	`and then everybody I helped will transfer or quit when it comes time for me to transfer.`
`08:57.55`	`warmi`	`are you planning to go for MS ?`
`08:58.01`	`mspencer`	`maybe...`
`08:58.17`	`mspencer`	`shit, guys, I just realized I have to wake in 5 1/2 hours...`
`08:58.27`	`mspencer`	`time got away from me there :)`
`08:58.33`	`warmi`	`heh`
`08:58.42`	`warmi`	`ok`
`08:58.44`	`warmi`	`later then`
`08:59.04`	`mspencer`	`matta ashita and stuff.`
`09:00.45`	`noidd`	`yeah - we all pay our dues in some way or another`
`09:00.58`	`noidd`	`I didn't do the college CS thing`
`09:01.30`	`noidd`	`instead I blagged my way into a sysadmin job by offering to work at half the market rate`
`09:01.48`	`noidd`	`6 month contract, terminatable at any time`
`09:02.02`	`warmi`	`you planning to go back to school ?`
`09:02.04`	`noidd`	`then just job-hopped from there`
`09:02.21`	`mspencer`	`(asa kara ban made jugyou ga arimasu kara ashita wa isogashii desu yo.) (��΂�܂ł��ガ�傤��܂��A��͂��ł��B) (I have class from morning to evening, so tomorrow's going to be busy.)`
`09:02.29`	`noidd`	`I would like to, i'm the only person in my and my wifes social circle who is degreeles`
`09:02.37`	`mspencer`	`I don't know why I just spent that much time on that. :) )`
`09:03.03`	`warmi`	`well, as far as job opportunities - after say 10 years it doesn't matter all that much`
`09:03.16`	`warmi`	`of course it helps to have degree when trying to move up , if that is your goal`
`09:03.18`	`mspencer`	`(the three parenthetical expressions all said the same thing :) )`
`09:03.20`	`noidd`	`Birbeck does a 2 year part time or 1 year full time Masters Computing degree. Dont need a BSc to get on it`
`09:03.33`	`noidd`	`You need 10 years of industry experience tho`
`09:03.48`	`noidd`	`pllus extrance exams etc.. and about 20 slots a year`
`09:04.21`	`warmi`	`you got that 10 years ?`
`09:04.31`	`noidd`	`as of next year - yes.`
`09:04.54`	`noidd`	`i'm at the top of my field so there isn't really any reason I s'pose to actually do a degree`
`09:05.40`	`noidd`	`i'm just a reasonably decient negotiator I guess`
`09:05.47`	`warmi`	`I don't know - after 10 years, I would rather go for someting business oriented`
`09:06.13`	`noidd`	`I was DAMN lucky tho, I arrived on the job market when there were only 20-30 internet techies in the market`
`09:06.18`	`warmi`	`depends what you want to do`
`09:06.25`	`warmi`	`noidd: yeah, hehe`
`09:06.26`	`noidd`	`they were charging silly money so I worked for 50% and blagged`
`09:06.32`	`warmi`	`now it would be much harder`
`09:06.41`	`warmi`	`there are plently of CS graduates looking for work`
`09:07.20`	`noidd`	`so I have the experience there and a HUGE list of reference sites... like all of IBMs european web services, built the UKs largest ISP from scratch etc`
`09:07.32`	`noidd`	`its only because of the timing`
`09:07.50`	`noidd`	`first job was root@www.europe.ibm.com`
`09:08.06`	`noidd`	`beyond lucky`
`09:08.07`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`09:08.25`	`warmi`	`so why do you even bother .. unless you want to get a degree for your own satisfaction`
`09:08.49`	`noidd`	`although they did raise an eyebrown when at the end of my first day on-site I left the building with all the AIX instruction manuals :-D`
`09:09.02`	`warmi`	`hehehe`
`09:09.17`	`noidd`	`4 manuals the size of telephone directories`
`09:09.44`	`noidd`	`why... probably cos i'm the only person in any of my social circles to not have a degree`
`09:10.15`	`noidd`	`all my good programming habits i've learned from doing things wrong the first time`
`09:10.37`	`noidd`	`I think that a theoretical CS injection would do my programming a lot of good`
`09:10.51`	`warmi`	`that's normal - hell you do that regardless if you have or not CS under you belt :-)`
`09:10.55`	`*** join/#zaurus kolla (~kolla@drift3.uninett.no)`
`09:11.10`	`noidd`	`esp since i've been at the ugly side, I would probably see pretty easily why things are taught a certain way`
`09:12.06`	`noidd`	`i'm been considering switching careers to medicine anyways :-)`
`09:12.11`	`noidd`	`just bored of CS`
`09:12.36`	`noidd`	`anyways - sorry do have side-tracked y'all`
`09:12.44`	`noidd`	`you guys have a good day/morning/evening`
`09:12.46`	`noidd`	`:-)`
`09:12.50`	`warmi`	`nah .. you can't sidetrack at 3 am ..`
`09:12.57`	`warmi`	`heh`
`09:13.02`	`warmi`	`time for me as well`
`09:13.06`	`warmi`	`g night`
`09:13.32`	`noidd`	`kolla: that the slow fanless wonders?`
`09:13.47`	`kolla`	`wondering wether there are any compilation flags worth using on this epia CPU`
`09:13.55`	`kolla`	`noidd: it isnt fanless`
`09:13.57`	`kolla`	`:)`
`09:14.08`	`kolla`	`there are perhaps less fans, but it isnt without fans :)`
`09:14.28`	`noidd`	`gotcha`
`09:14.38`	`noidd`	`ah well, gotta dunk myself in boiling water`
`09:15.03`	`noidd`	`Warmi: one thing for certain tho - i'm not going to put myself through 4-5 years of US university for a CS degree`
`09:15.50`	`noidd`	`too expensive once you've actually started working`
`09:16.02`	`noidd`	`esp since in the US you pay taxes in arrears :-/`
`09:16.26`	`noidd`	`err, UK`
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`11:06.36`	`nofpu`	`my, that's good coffee`
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`11:16.26`	`Twiun`	`mornin nofpu`
`11:17.01`	`nofpu`	`ha Twiun`
`11:17.10`	`nofpu`	`er`
`11:17.14`	`nofpu`	`:)`
`11:17.19`	`Twiun`	`notice... I didn't say _good_ morning :)`
`11:17.23`	`nofpu`	`s/ha/hi/`
`11:17.55`	`nofpu`	`:) is it bad for employment reasons?`
`11:18.59`	`Twiun`	`yup`
`11:19.25`	`nofpu`	`poor Twiun`
`11:19.35`	`Twiun`	`it's incredibly frustrating is what it is...`
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`11:31.49`	`nofpu`	`mmm mushroomy`
`11:32.00`	`nofpu`	`mmm oniony`
`11:32.50`	`Twiun`	`need some 'shrooms!`
`11:33.36`	`nofpu`	`mmm potatoy`
`11:36.31`	`nofpu`	`any new job leads?`
`11:37.36`	`Twiun`	`not this week, no... working on starting a business with some guys as well - parallel efforts :)`
`11:37.55`	`nofpu`	`cool`
`11:38.58`	`nofpu`	`boo, out of ketchup`
`11:40.02`	`Twiun`	`food sounds cool`
`11:40.29`	`nofpu`	`it is, it is`
`11:42.47`	`nofpu`	`but dont forget coffee`
`11:42.50`	`nofpu`	`that's also cool`
`11:43.15`	`Twiun`	`nah... not in a coffee mood today... might do some fruit teas`
`11:49.10`	`nofpu`	`also good`
`11:49.17`	`nofpu`	`I recommend fennel`
`12:12.44`	`nofpu`	`not that that is a fruit`
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`14:26.06`	`bobbyd`	`hi`
`14:26.27`	`bobbyd`	`has anyone here bought a zaurus from conics.net recently?`
`14:31.43`	`*** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@h12-20-43-1.chubb.com)`
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`15:18.42`	`noidd`	`F00k`
`15:18.59`	`noidd`	`Zaurus has dropped to 200 quid in the UK a unit (about 150 US$`
`15:19.01`	`noidd`	`)`
`15:20.25`	`nofpu`	`aye, and 5600 and c700 both available for preorder on expansys.co.uk`
`15:20.34`	`xml`	`how much?`
`15:20.35`	`noidd`	`looking`
`15:20.50`	`nofpu`	`not priced`
`15:21.02`	`xml`	`oh well`
`15:21.42`	`nofpu`	`but I didnt realise c700 was becoming available`
`15:24.57`	`*** join/#zaurus Quilb (Quilbicus@idxgos02-152.idx.com.au)`
`15:26.52`	`nofpu`	`I paid >�400 for mine`
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`15:29.44`	`*** join/#zaurus prpplague (~JoeBob1@12.148.134.9)`
`15:29.52`	`Twiun`	`yikes`
`15:30.04`	`Twiun`	`I will definately wait a lot longer before I spend`
`15:34.18`	`*** join/#zaurus lpb-oberon (~oberon@p5086FD67.dip.t-dialin.net)`
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`15:37.45`	`lpb-oberon`	`hi`
`15:38.05`	`lpb-oberon`	`i got serios trouble installing usbdnet`
`15:38.33`	`lpb-oberon`	`ive tried 3-4 different versions`
`15:38.36`	`*** join/#zaurus mencken (~mencken@63.163.216.22)`
`15:39.23`	`noidd`	`lpb: whars wrong?`
`15:39.25`	`nofpu`	`if you're using a 2.4.20 kernel I think the usbnet patch is the way to go`
`15:39.49`	`lpb-oberon`	`i patched the kernel`
`15:39.58`	`lpb-oberon`	`i got a connection`
`15:40.07`	`*** join/#zaurus toad__ (toad@80-192-4-23.cable.ubr09.na.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`15:40.11`	`lpb-oberon`	`but after a few secs it is gone`
`15:40.31`	`toad__`	`hi`
`15:40.33`	`nofpu`	`I assume the Z isnt suspending? ;)`
`15:40.42`	`lpb-oberon`	`no`
`15:40.52`	`lpb-oberon`	`got oz rc2`
`15:40.55`	`toad__`	`I got a flash reader, how do I get the built-in card out of the zaurus so I can back it up and flash it?`
`15:41.02`	`lpb-oberon`	`it wont suspend on ac`
`15:41.03`	`Twiun`	`lpb-oberon: nofpu is right, usbnet (note the missing D) not usbdnet is the way to go`
`15:41.32`	`lpb-oberon`	`i tried the encapsulted module`
`15:41.49`	`lpb-oberon`	`i tried the 2.4.21-pre5`
`15:42.05`	`lpb-oberon`	`some standalone shit`
`15:42.11`	`lpb-oberon`	`it wont work`
`15:42.58`	`lpb-oberon`	`if i put it in the cradle and leave it alone the connection remains`
`15:43.21`	`*** join/#zaurus TMM1 (foobar@69.3.153.235)`
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`15:43.35`	`*** join/#zaurus XavierXeon (~mr_x@pD9E1E1E9.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`15:43.39`	`lpb-oberon`	`but as soon as i try to transfer data or ping it for more than 60 secs it is gone`
`15:43.56`	`nofpu`	`nothing in your log?`
`15:44.08`	`toad__`	`how do I install OZ? I was told I needed a compactflash reader, I have now got one... where is the card?`
`15:44.17`	`lpb-oberon`	`lol`
`15:44.29`	`*** join/#zaurus effy (effy@y092226.ppp.dion.ne.jp)`
`15:44.30`	`nofpu`	`toad__: you have to buy one :)`
`15:44.48`	`nofpu`	`(CF)`
`15:44.50`	`toad__`	`nofpu: why didn't you tell me this before? :)`
`15:45.04`	`nofpu`	`toad__: you never asked ;)`
`15:45.12`	`nofpu`	`lpb-oberon: http://zaurus.frontgarden.net/files/usbnet-2.4.20.patch`
`15:45.13`	`toad__`	`the zaurus has 32M of CF built-in doesn't it?`
`15:45.55`	`nofpu`	`not removable`
`15:45.58`	`lpb-oberon`	`i had that one`
`15:46.15`	`lpb-oberon`	`v0.4b sl@lineo.com, tbr@lineo.com`
`15:46.15`	`lpb-oberon`	`Mar 5 16:07:22 Obi kernel: usbdnet.c: v0.4b sl@lineo.com, tbr@lineo.com`
`15:46.16`	`lpb-oberon`	`Mar 5 16:07:22 Obi kernel: usbdnet.c: USB Host to Device Network - for Linux USB Devices using MDLM/CDC`
`15:46.16`	`lpb-oberon`	`Mar 5 16:07:22 Obi kernel: usb.c: registered new driver usbdnet`
`15:46.16`	`lpb-oberon`	`Mar 5 16:07:22 Obi kernel: usbdnet: probe`
`15:46.18`	`nofpu`	`only need a smallish one`
`15:46.42`	`lpb-oberon`	`....`
`15:46.44`	`lpb-oberon`	`Mar 5 16:07:22 Obi kernel: probe[0]: success v0.4b`
`15:46.50`	`lpb-oberon`	`the module loads`
`15:46.58`	`toad__`	`is it worth the difference from 128M to 256M?`
`15:47.29`	`nofpu`	`depends what you want it for - can fit a nice quality mpeg movie on 256M`
`15:48.22`	`lpb-oberon`	`<PROTECTED>`
`15:48.22`	`lpb-oberon`	`Mar 3 21:14:46 Obi kernel: usb_control/bulk_msg: timeout`
`15:48.29`	`toad__`	`looks like 256 is the best value, and it's a nice chunk...`
`15:48.51`	`lpb-oberon`	`that seems to be some kind of error`
`15:48.55`	`nofpu`	`normal I think`
`15:49.31`	`lpb-oberon`	`do you got that timeout as well?`
`15:50.36`	`nofpu`	`think I did - but I'm using usbnet now not usbdnet so I cant check`
`15:51.19`	`lpb-oberon`	`# uname -a`
`15:51.19`	`lpb-oberon`	`Linux zaurus 2.4.6-rmk1-np2-embedix #2 Wed Dec 11 22:15:12 CST 2002 armv4l unknown`
`15:51.26`	`lpb-oberon`	`ssh works`
`15:51.38`	`lpb-oberon`	`:( but not for long :((`
`15:52.12`	`lpb-oberon`	`.. disconnected`
`15:54.10`	`lpb-oberon`	`can anybody help ..plz!`
`15:57.36`	`chouimat`	`morning`
`15:58.03`	`lpb-oberon`	`hi`
`15:58.32`	`*** join/#zaurus Hellaenergy (~Hellaener@209.181.237.141)`
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`16:02.39`	`simcon`	`evening`
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`16:03.33`	`*** join/#zaurus mr_science (~sarnold@64.136.145.171)`
`16:04.17`	`mr_science`	`howdy`
`16:05.09`	`simcon`	`doody`
`16:11.24`	`*** join/#zaurus kurre (~kurre@ncircle.nullnet.fi)`
`16:11.28`	`mr_science`	`time`
`16:28.39`	`*** part/#zaurus simcon (~simcon@host213-122-177-94.in-addr.btopenworld.com)`
`16:33.11`	`mewyn`	`hey kergoth`
`16:33.17`	`*** mode/#zaurus [+o kergoth] by ChanServ`
`16:33.21`	`kergoth`	`hey`
`16:33.38`	`mewyn`	`snow sucks`
`16:33.45`	`kergoth`	`truee that`
`16:34.26`	`chouimat`	`FUCK! it's snowing`
`16:37.05`	`mr_science`	`chouimat: sorry, but my home office has sun streaming through the windows...`
`16:37.14`	`mr_science`	`wanna see?`
`16:37.16`	`mewyn`	`<PROTECTED>`
`16:38.16`	`mr_science`	`http://arnolds.dhs.org/static/webcam.html`
`16:38.47`	`Twiun`	`that's sunlight???`
`16:38.54`	`mr_science`	`i'll wave to you in a couple minutes... :P`
`16:38.57`	`*** join/#zaurus Zarchon (~chatzilla@roam122-27.fas.harvard.edu)`
`16:39.01`	`mr_science`	`yup (the cam sucks)`
`16:39.12`	`mr_science`	`old color quickcam...`
`16:39.19`	`mr_science`	`on the mail server`
`16:39.36`	`Zarchon`	`Anyone know of any wireless CF cards that'll be upgradable to 802.11g, or do you think I'll have to wait for the standard to solidify and buy a card then?`
`16:40.08`	`*** join/#zaurus stevek (~chatzilla@slim-eth0.horizonlive.net)`
`16:40.31`	`mr_science`	`Zarchon: you should be okay with a card using the prismGT (prism 2.5 with G)`
`16:40.52`	`mr_science`	`they're just now becoming available...`
`16:45.22`	`krezel`	`I notice a Newcom WebPal build in the OZ buildroot... how well does that work?`
`16:45.40`	`treke`	`krezel: its still under heavy development`
`16:45.43`	`kergoth`	`krezel: ask kenb in #openembedded, he's maintaining support for that target`
`16:46.17`	`krezel`	`Thanks`
`16:46.24`	`krezel`	`You can get a webpal for like $20!`
`16:46.48`	`treke`	`that would explain why everyone and there mother seems to have one now`
`16:48.18`	`krezel`	`How fast is the processor?`
`16:48.19`	`kergoth`	`you need to build/obtain a serial board for it, as it has serial, but its TTL level outputs, need a max232 or something`
`16:48.28`	`kergoth`	`its slow, but can you really complain?`
`16:48.43`	`kergoth`	`you can actually buy them for like $13, and thats with the modem. the one without the modem is cheaper yet`
`16:48.59`	`krezel`	`Heh just wondering if its fast enough to turn it into a jukebox for my stereo`
`16:49.14`	`chouimat`	`ibot: webpal`
`16:49.15`		`methinks webpal is a set top box appliance that can run Linux. see http://webpal.bigbrd.com/, or http://www.softwareandstuff.com/h_misc_webpal.html, or only $13 + shipping!, or schematics are available from: http://www.geocities.com/webpalstuff/`
`16:49.36`	`chouimat`	`out of stock`
`16:50.01`	`krezel`	`There's one with a modem for $25 buy-it-now on ebay`
`16:51.54`	`krezel`	`Hmmm.. 50mips... not that fast is right...`
`16:53.31`	`Zarchon`	`mr_science: do you know where I can find them?`
`16:54.32`	`mr_science`	`Zarchon: find a G card?`
`16:54.58`	`mr_science`	`Zarchon: i just saw some advertised last Sunday...`
`16:55.12`	`mr_science`	`either bestbuy or staples...`
`16:55.34`	`Zarchon`	`mr_science: searching on google just gives me a bunch of press releases for the prismGT. Although I can check those sites out...`
`16:55.43`	`krezel`	`http://www.computersurplusoutlet.com/viewproduct.asp?productid=MIS-ZCRUIS`
`16:56.32`	`mr_science`	`Zarchon: last weekend was the very first time i've seen g's advertised here...`
`16:56.39`	`icefox`	`http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/resellers/0-2709830-311-20679597.html`
`16:56.44`	`icefox`	`5600`
`16:56.46`	`Zarchon`	`ah`
`16:56.46`	`icefox`	`for 499`
`16:56.48`	`icefox`	`Enjoy`
`16:57.24`	`Zarchon`	`icefox: coolness.`
`16:58.12`	`kergoth`	`icefox: when will the 5600 be shipping?`
`16:58.20`	`icefox`	`end of month`
`16:59.07`	`kergoth`	`spiffy`
`17:01.29`	`Hellaenergy`	`How much?`
`17:01.32`	`Hellaenergy`	`hey kergoth`
`17:01.50`	`Hellaenergy`	`ah 499`
`17:02.17`	`mr_science`	`chouimat: waved for you...`
`17:02.21`	`kergoth`	`hey Hellaenergy`
`17:02.53`	`Twiun`	`mr_science: wow, now THAT's a beard to be reckoned with ;-)`
`17:03.02`	`mr_science`	`:)`
`17:03.05`	`Hellaenergy`	`We need to find some way of Adjusting Opera so there is not so much scrolling`
`17:03.22`	`Hellaenergy`	`Maybe make it more wap compatable`
`17:03.40`	`mr_science`	`gonna have to trim it down, since i may be giving a presentation in a couple weeks...`
`17:04.02`	`kergoth`	`Hellaenergy: waste, just work on konq/e`
`17:04.11`	`kergoth`	`Hellaenergy: opera isnt even in the new sharp pdas`
`17:04.19`	`Hellaenergy`	`Oh really`
`17:04.26`	`kergoth`	`they include netfront`
`17:04.32`	`kergoth`	`which imho is better than either opera or konq/e`
`17:04.33`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`17:04.34`	`Hellaenergy`	`does konq/e display in the same manner?`
`17:04.55`	`Hellaenergy`	`ibot: netfront`
`17:04.56`		`i don't know, Hellaenergy`
`17:09.55`	`icefox`	`BargainPDA.com now says that the release date for the SL-5600 is March 21, 2003.`
`17:10.12`	`icefox`	`:)`
`17:10.28`	`Twiun`	`quick turnaround... think they monitor the channel?`
`17:10.47`	`icefox`	`who?`
`17:10.48`	`icefox`	`me`
`17:10.50`	`icefox`	`?`
`17:11.15`	`icefox`	`kergoth: Opera is in the new Sharp USA pda's`
`17:11.17`	`Twiun`	`or was it public knowledge the 5600 is being released in a few weeks?`
`17:11.44`	`icefox`	`heck I work for Sharp and I ....`
`17:16.33`	`Twiun`	`don't know �$(%*&, yeah I know the feeling :)`
`17:16.52`	`Twiun`	`"It's on a need-to-know basis" and such`
`17:17.28`	`kergoth`	`icefox: ah really? so netfront is only in the japanese units?`
`17:18.11`	`Twiun`	`http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters20030304_651.html`
`17:28.36`	`Neo\|Work`	`morning`
`17:32.27`	`*** part/#zaurus Hellaenergy (~Hellaener@209.181.237.141)`
`17:37.35`	`icefox`	`kergoth: yah that is only for japan`
`17:37.56`	`kergoth`	`gotcha`
`17:38.00`	`kergoth`	`that sucks, netfront rocks`
`17:38.02`	`kergoth`	`:)`
`17:40.47`	`*** join/#zaurus oGMo (~rpav@208.187.159.27)`
`17:40.58`	`*** join/#zaurus sig (~sig@h-66-167-137-45.STTNWAHO.covad.net)`
`17:41.30`	`krezel`	`Whats netfront?`
`17:41.41`	`kergoth`	`krezel: the browser on the japanese Z's`
`17:42.32`	`krezel`	`Aha..`
`17:43.11`	`krezel`	`Don't they sell a version of the Z that uses some different OS or something? I've seen screenshots, I'm just not all that good at reading japaneese`
`17:45.20`	`mark`	`jees, my .xsession-error is 22Gig1`
`17:49.53`	`warmi`	`krezel : all new devices are running Linux - but yeah they used to (still do ?) sell PDA that looked just like 5500 but were running some sort of proprietary OS`
`18:00.20`	`*** join/#zaurus Infamous (~qwerty@155.33.158.167)`
`18:05.06`	`*** join/#zaurus mark (~mark@s.westcott.freeuk.com)`
`18:05.41`	`mark`	`hi all. what would be a good way of finding all files biger than say 1 Gig on /home/mark?`
`18:06.08`	`chouimat\|bored`	`ls -lh`
`18:07.18`	`chouimat\|bored`	`mark: and with clever combinasion of awk you can have a nice script`
`18:07.47`	`mark`	`chouimat\|bored: hey, you're bored.. what would that nice script look like exactly? :)`
`18:08.02`	`chouimat\|bored`	`mark: wait`
`18:09.49`	`chouimat\|bored`	`ls -lh\|awk '{print $5" "$9}'\|grep 'G' <--does the job`
`18:11.37`	`mark`	`chouimat\|bored: that also finds files when a G in their name though`
`18:11.56`	`chouimat\|bored`	`mark: I know but :)`
`18:12.08`	`mark`	`chouimat\|bored: hehe, its okay`
`18:12.35`	`Wintre`	`mark: man find, seearch for size`
`18:12.42`	`Wintre`	`du -s * \| sort -n will do that nicely`
`18:12.58`	`chouimat\|bored`	`Wintre: yah that too`
`18:14.20`	`mark`	`Wintre: cool`
`18:14.43`	`*** join/#zaurus mark_ (~mark@s.westcott.freeuk.com)`
`18:32.20`	`*** join/#zaurus sc2003 (~abfkj@65.242.212.232)`
`18:38.58`	`*** join/#zaurus smbj (~smbj@64.30.163.179)`
`18:48.27`	`*** join/#zaurus lsmith (~vandal@p213.54.12.28.tisdip.tiscali.de)`
`18:57.43`	`*** join/#zaurus DeSoya (~kruskal@APh-Aug-106-1-5-5.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`18:57.51`	`*** part/#zaurus DeSoya (~kruskal@APh-Aug-106-1-5-5.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`19:01.13`	`*** join/#zaurus Neo\|Away (~neotron@207.188.30.40)`
`19:02.53`	`*** join/#zaurus Neo\|Work (~neotron@207.188.30.40)`
`19:02.53`	`*** mode/#zaurus [+o Neo\|Work] by ChanServ`
`19:19.19`	`*** join/#zaurus Locutus4242 (~zaphrod@66-27-69-215.san.rr.com)`
`19:22.00`	`*** join/#zaurus darienm (~darien@205.243.147.8)`
`19:30.44`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work : have you tried native versions of the games you ported on your PPC yet ?`
`19:31.33`	`mewyn`	`gah`
`19:31.42`	`mewyn`	`i wish the craptop would hurry up`
`19:34.50`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: some yes`
`19:35.20`	`warmi`	`noticed any differences ?`
`19:35.22`	`Neo\|Work`	`apparently Warbirds runs at like 60 FPS on the 200 MHz XScale (h1910 from HP) while it runs at like 34 FPS on the 400 MHz Dell.`
`19:35.23`	`Neo\|Work`	`go figure`
`19:35.29`	`Neo\|Work`	`not any major differences..`
`19:35.36`	`warmi`	`yeah , that's what I read too`
`19:35.42`	`warmi`	`doesn't make sense at all`
`19:35.53`	`warmi`	`200 MHZ devices being many times faster than 400 MHZ`
`19:35.55`	`Neo\|Work`	`such a huge difference most definitely not`
`19:36.07`	`warmi`	`just shows how really fuck up current XScale is`
`19:36.13`	`Neo\|Work`	`BUT IF is faster on the 200 MHz xscale than 400 MHz one (on Zaurus that is)`
`19:39.28`	`*** join/#zaurus mutexer (~spock@adsl-32-85-149.mem.bellsouth.net)`
`19:40.07`	`mutexer`	`the menu and email buttons on the front of the zaurus (I think thats the ones.. the two on the right side) What are their key binds?`
`19:41.03`	`warmi`	`http://docs.zaurus.com/keys_howto.shtml`
`19:42.29`	`kergoth`	`hey, anyone wanna test evas on a 5x00 for me?`
`19:42.36`	`kergoth`	`its got a benchmark, i'd like to compare`
`19:42.50`	`warmi`	`where is it ?`
`19:42.56`	`mutexer`	`they arent working.. hrm`
`19:43.14`	`kergoth`	`well, this ipk is OZ format, so I need an OZ user or a sharp user w/ the new ipkg`
`19:43.32`	`*** join/#zaurus Bovine (~moo@dsl-217-155-87-1.zen.co.uk)`
`19:43.35`	`warmi`	`oh .. sorry then`
`19:43.37`	`kergoth`	`np`
`19:43.40`	`*** join/#zaurus fredmj (~fredmj@ASt-Lambert-105-1-1-201.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`19:43.41`	`kergoth`	`any other volunteers?`
`19:43.50`	`Neo\|Work`	`kergoth: I can try it tonight`
`19:43.52`	`kergoth`	`my average fps was 5.6 for evas`
`19:43.53`	`kergoth`	`ahaha`
`19:43.55`	`kergoth`	`egad`
`19:43.59`	`Neo\|Work`	`haha`
`19:44.04`	`Neo\|Work`	`zpeedy. :P`
`19:44.08`	`kergoth`	`EVAS BENCH: 0.093`
`19:44.11`	`kergoth`	`^^-that doesnt look good`
`19:44.18`	`*** join/#zaurus chouimat (~dieu@modemcable120.184-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca)`
`19:44.46`	`warmi`	`kergoth: doing what ? animating something or what ?`
`19:44.58`	`kergoth`	`yeah, all sorts of tests on the FB`
`19:45.03`	`kergoth`	`various animations, image scaling`
`19:45.03`	`warmi`	`ah ok`
`19:45.09`	`kergoth`	`gradiant scaling, color changing, while resizing`
`19:45.09`	`kergoth`	`etc`
`19:45.27`	`warmi`	`evas won't be ultra fast since he does dihtering and all that stuff on the fly ..`
`19:46.07`	`warmi`	`I been looking for a nice "libtar" that will work like libz for gz files does and my search is finally over`
`19:46.14`	`warmi`	`finally someone created one`
`19:46.16`	`warmi`	`hah`
`19:48.07`	`chouimat`	`warmi: url?`
`19:48.20`	`Neo\|Work`	`hrm`
`19:48.25`	`warmi`	`http://www-dev.cites.uiuc.edu/libtar/`
`19:49.00`	`fredmj`	`Is smone know why qhen i connect my z to a mdk, my resolv.conf is changed...?`
`19:51.16`	`mutexer`	`Something with my app is killing the buttons on the front.. could it be grabKeyboard?`
`19:51.19`	`Neo\|Work`	`fredmj: dhcp changing it?`
`19:51.25`	`Neo\|Work`	`mutexer: yes`
`19:51.38`	`Neo\|Work`	`killing == doesn't work after your app exits right/`
`19:51.45`	`mutexer`	`right`
`19:51.48`	`Neo\|Work`	`if so, when you "ungrab" the keyaboard do:`
`19:52.03`	`mutexer`	`I have to press the button on back to "reformat" to get thjem to work again`
`19:52.12`	`Neo\|Work`	`qApp->grabKeyboard();qApp->processEvents();qApp->ungrabKeyboard();qApp->processEvents()`
`19:52.18`	`Neo\|Work`	`i.e grab it right before ungrabbing`
`19:52.21`	`Neo\|Work`	`else i will not work`
`19:52.27`	`mutexer`	`ok cool.. thanks`
`19:52.47`	`Neo\|Work`	`took me almost a year to finally get a working workqround for that bug`
`19:53.04`	`mutexer`	`I was using releaseKeybaord.. whats the difference in that and ungrab?`
`19:53.30`	`Neo\|Work`	`I think they are at a different level?`
`19:53.38`	`Neo\|Work`	`there's widget-specific grabbing as well`
`19:54.02`	`fredmj`	`dhcp on my desktop...?`
`19:55.08`	`mutexer`	`hmm what you pasted isnt working.. I think im grabbingh on the wrong level`
`19:55.44`	`Neo\|Work`	`are you using grabKeyboard() to grab?`
`19:56.20`	`Neo\|Work`	`and btw, if it's already not correct, I don't know if you can ungrab to fix it`
`19:57.16`	`mutexer`	`ahh I figured out the problem... its compiling now`
`19:58.47`	`icefox`	`The Z was a $250 lesson in forgetting that my needs were more important than my wants.`
`19:58.51`	`icefox`	`from the dev forums`
`19:59.23`	`chouimat`	`icefox: hehe ...`
`19:59.25`	`warmi`	`mutexer : with Qtopia you can't really "stick out your head " too far .... you going to encounter shitload of bugs as soon as you are trying to do something a bit more esoteric ...`
`19:59.26`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`19:59.59`	`chouimat`	`warmi: the same in everything`
`20:00.04`	`warmi`	`qte is great - it is Qtopia that is bit of a hack`
`20:00.51`	`mutexer`	`hmm..that didnt work`
`20:00.53`	`warmi`	`chouimat : no , in my experience qte and Qtopia are like two different packages ... one designed by professionals and another by a bunch of second year CS students :-)`
`20:00.56`	`mutexer`	`its still not releasing`
`20:01.27`	`mutexer`	`I hate the Qtopia SDK... the embedded console crashes 80% of the time..`
`20:01.34`	`treke`	`warmi: which one is which? :)`
`20:01.59`	`warmi`	`treke hehehe`
`20:02.26`	`icefox`	`warmi: I think you mean qtopia _is_ a hack`
`20:02.51`	`warmi`	`well, some of the ideas behind its design are not bad at all`
`20:02.59`	`icefox`	`linux :-D`
`20:03.00`	`warmi`	`but the execution for the most part is terrible`
`20:03.05`	`icefox`	`everything else`
`20:03.07`	`warmi`	`hehehe`
`20:03.30`	`mutexer`	`how should I do with setFocusPolicy .. should I set strong focus on my app.. then when exiting set nofocus?`
`20:03.38`	`warmi`	`I mean it is more than obvious that it was rushed to the market ( which in this case meant the ZAurus market)`
`20:03.49`	`treke`	`qtopia could probably be fixed if they were willing to break bc`
`20:04.01`	`icefox`	`treke: yah but SHARP wont`
`20:04.02`	`warmi`	`mutexer : entire app ?`
`20:04.08`	`icefox`	`as they have already shown`
`20:04.17`	`mutexer`	`yeah`
`20:04.23`	`warmi`	`it should happen atomatically - meaning you should get a focus when your app starts`
`20:04.33`	`treke`	`icefox: Yes, well as I think has been shown, sharp isnt exactly the pointiest stick in the bag`
`20:04.38`	`icefox`	`so until the current sharp/zaurus/pda/qtopia/fork dies we will be stuck with what wew have`
`20:04.41`	`mutexer`	`sont you need strong focus for fullscreen?`
`20:04.59`	`warmi`	`I generally only play with setting strong focus on widgets itself - depending how I want this to work`
`20:05.32`	`warmi`	`nah .. I understand you are creating screen size widget right ?`
`20:05.44`	`warmi`	`or are you just hitting framebuffer directly ?`
`20:06.06`	`mutexer`	`hitting framebuffer drectly`
`20:07.00`	`Neo\|Work`	`got a mail from TT where they said all my games worked with Qtopia 1.6 btw`
`20:07.06`	`Neo\|Work`	`just as a note out of the blue`
`20:07.12`	`mutexer`	`TT?`
`20:07.28`	`Neo\|Work`	`Trolltech`
`20:07.41`	`Neo\|Work`	`i.e makers of Qt and Qtopia`
`20:07.45`	`mutexer`	`yeah`
`20:07.46`	`warmi`	`mutexer : well, you should have at least a single window which you are then resizing to match screen size`
`20:07.55`	`warmi`	`once you have that then all events will be channeled to that window`
`20:08.00`	`warmi`	`there is no need to set any focus`
`20:08.06`	`mutexer`	`IM using neo's tutorial`
`20:08.16`	`warmi`	`yeah`
`20:08.33`	`warmi`	`you should automatically have every event forwarded to your window`
`20:08.43`	`warmi`	`it doesn'`
`20:08.46`	`warmi`	`work ?`
`20:08.59`	`mutexer`	`it works.. I was just making sure I was doing it correctly`
`20:09.08`	`icefox`	The proud motto of the South Florida motorist is ``Death Before Yielding.''
`20:09.09`	`icefox`	`<PROTECTED>`
`20:09.23`	`mutexer`	`I have some issues.. but this keybaord thing might fix it if I get it working`
`20:09.36`	`warmi`	`well, that's how Qt and all guis work - your window gets the "focus" when your app starts and unless user switches to another app - it will have that focus`
`20:10.41`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work : note from trolls ? I wonder if they listened to your plea and simplified full screen handling in Qtopia`
`20:10.48`	`warmi`	`for that matter - keyboard handling as well`
`20:10.49`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`20:11.23`	`kergoth`	`heh, somehow i doubt it`
`20:11.36`	`mutexer`	`grr.. its still killing my buttons`
`20:13.09`	`warmi`	`mewyn : you wanna join these protestors ?`
`20:13.10`	`warmi`	`hehehe`
`20:13.50`	`mewyn`	`no. i'm just lazy`
`20:14.09`	`gaurdian`	`heh, the "protest" that was scheduled today here was called off, no one showed up, haha`
`20:14.26`	`mewyn`	`i want them to get on with the damned war. i don't like it. i don't want it. but it's gonna happen no matter what i say.`
`20:14.38`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: well, it'd be more like "did they fix the bugs"? :)`
`20:14.53`	`Neo\|Work`	`the problem isn't running fullscreen. the problem is keeping it. :)`
`20:15.03`	`Neo\|Work`	`I should drop them a mail`
`20:15.18`	`warmi`	`gaurdian : well, have you heard about that woman who offered herself to Bush to be crucified if only he recalled "his" armies back home ...`
`20:15.26`	`gaurdian`	`looks like tkc came out with all updated apps, woot!`
`20:15.31`	`warmi`	`man .. things are getting wild ..`
`20:15.49`	`gaurdian`	`warmi , yea, read about that.`
`20:15.58`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work maybe they figured since the solution you came up with works .. why bother`
`20:15.59`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`20:16.02`	`gaurdian`	`had a good laugh`
`20:16.25`	`icefox`	`Today, all three fields in the six-digit date lined up to "03". Earlier today, it was actually "03:03:03 03/03/03"`
`20:16.26`	`gaurdian`	`oh joy, installing Oracle is so fun`
`20:16.51`	`treke`	`use a real database. like mysql`
`20:17.00`	`gaurdian`	`icefox , hey man, herd a rumor about a possible new sharp rom for the 5500...is it true ?`
`20:17.01`	`warmi`	`icefox : I am sure someone somewhere will commit suicide or join some cult because of that`
`20:17.23`	`icefox`	`gaurdian: no comment for the fear that it wont happen`
`20:17.27`	`gaurdian`	`mysql != a real database`
`20:17.39`	`gaurdian`	`icefox , fair enough`
`20:18.15`	`icefox`	`State Farm (which happens to be the company my car insurance is with) has just announced that nuclear attacks on cars are no longer covered. Radiation from such hypothetical attack is also not covered.`
`20:18.28`	`kergoth`	`hah`
`20:18.32`	`Neo\|Work`	`lol`
`20:19.04`	`treke`	`well that sucks`
`20:19.12`	`mewyn`	`ice: they haven't been covered ever.`
`20:19.13`	`icefox`	`"Normal" car bombs are still covered by auto insurance, however.`
`20:19.15`	`treke`	`how am I going to afford a new car for the last week of my life`
`20:19.19`	`mewyn`	`it was established in the 60s`
`20:19.21`	`icefox`	`If a car is damaged from nuclear attacks, the owner probably has worse problems than having their car covered.`
`20:19.41`	`mewyn`	`if my car gets blown up from nuclear attack, i'm dead`
`20:20.01`	`mewyn`	`i'm almost always within 2 miles of my car, at least right now`
`20:20.20`	`mutexer`	`warmi: setFocusPolicy is need otherwise it wont remove the bar at the bottom`
`20:20.23`	`warmi`	`guardia: we used to rely on Oracle exclusively but recently me moved all our static data ( which is liek 80% of all data) to mysql`
`20:20.30`	`warmi`	`we still use ORacle for transactional stuff`
`20:20.36`	`warmi`	`I think that is the best compromise`
`20:20.49`	`warmi`	`using Oracle for everything is just too damn expensive`
`20:20.53`	`gaurdian`	`warmi , hmm`
`20:21.05`	`gaurdian`	`I do agree its not cheap though`
`20:21.09`	`warmi`	`you have to pay shitload of money when you upgrade your server with a new CPU etc ..`
`20:21.43`	`gaurdian`	`what platform were you running it on ?`
`20:21.51`	`warmi`	`Solaris`
`20:21.53`	`mewyn`	`oracle has some of the worst pricing setups`
`20:21.53`	`Wintre`	`God, Oracle... It's a mosnter`
`20:21.55`	`warmi`	`mysql runs on Linux`
`20:22.16`	`warmi`	`well, Oracle does work - no problem with that`
`20:22.21`	`chouimat`	`re`
`20:22.27`	`Neo\|Work`	`oh shit`
`20:22.28`	`Neo\|Work`	`nice`
`20:22.37`	`Neo\|Work`	`just tried the PocketPC "Notes" application`
`20:22.38`	`Wintre`	`Oracle also requires a helluva lot of manpower`
`20:22.43`	`Neo\|Work`	`it could recognise MY handwriting...`
`20:22.47`	`gaurdian`	`how so Wintre ?`
`20:22.47`	`warmi`	`it is just not cost effective when all you have is read-only stuff which can be reloaded relatively quickly from other sources ..`
`20:22.51`	`treke`	`Neo\|Work: wow`
`20:23.04`	`Wintre`	`gaurdian: Even a single instance installation requires a DBA`
`20:23.37`	`Wintre`	`If you have something mission-critical, at least`
`20:23.45`	`gaurdian`	`Wintre , uh.....not like you need a DEDICATED DBA just for Oracle Wintre`
`20:23.56`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work : next step : try their voice recognition ...`
`20:24.01`	`*** join/#zaurus larios (~larios@217.172.69.2)`
`20:24.21`	`gaurdian`	`warmi , I will agree it isnt the cheapest around`
`20:24.38`	`Wintre`	`gaurdian: Either you have somebody with DBA experience on-hand, or somebody has to learn it.`
`20:24.39`	`warmi`	`Wintre : that only makes sense - if you are running Oracle it is good to have someone that knows this shit cold`
`20:24.40`	`Neo\|Work`	`perfect it is not but my handwriting also sucks`
`20:25.07`	`warmi`	`sometimes you can't afford going for hours thru bunch of thick manuals while your database is down :-)`
`20:25.17`	`mutexer`	`NeoTron: when using widget specific grabbing..do you also have to grab before releasing?`
`20:25.18`	`gaurdian`	`Wintre , well thats a given, but the person , for a single instance, wouldent be dedicated just to DBA work`
`20:25.21`	`Wintre`	`Of course, in my experience, Oracle doesn't need tuning every day, but it's complex enough that you basically have to have somebody skilled on site.`
`20:25.28`	`Wintre`	`Compare with PostgreSQL`
`20:25.31`	`mewyn`	`warmi: hence why TMS needs a DBA`
`20:25.38`	`Wintre`	`MySQL I agree isn't really a database`
`20:25.44`	`Wintre`	`PGSQL is much much closer`
`20:26.02`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: how do you do that? I can record but..?`
`20:26.04`	`Wintre`	`Anyway warmi, gaurdian, you say it's a given. And I say that's why Oracle is a monster.`
`20:26.05`	`mewyn`	`why do you people insist mysql isnt a database?`
`20:26.07`	`warmi`	`Wintre : precisely - also it is good to have someone to call when you are trying to come up with some monster query :-)`
`20:26.33`	`warmi`	`Wintre : yeah, that is why we are using mysql for some of our stuff ...`
`20:26.39`	`warmi`	`mewyn : we do have a DBA`
`20:26.48`	`mewyn`	`i thought you needed one?`
`20:26.51`	`warmi`	`in fact , what we need is a junior DBA to help him out`
`20:26.55`	`mewyn`	`ah`
`20:27.01`	`warmi`	`cause he doesn't have time for anything these days`
`20:27.21`	`Wintre`	`warmi: What's he spending all his time doing?`
`20:27.24`	`fredmj`	`how can i switch to console mode with Qtopia...?`
`20:27.48`	`warmi`	`Wintre : we have shitload of legacy apps doing all kinds of replication from legacy sources ( like cliper) etc ..`
`20:27.56`	`warmi`	`there is a lot of stuff hanging off that database`
`20:28.10`	`Wintre`	`Sounds like no fun.`
`20:28.23`	`warmi`	`well, you got to do what you got to do`
`20:29.12`	`warmi`	`I work for Chicago tribune - over the years they have accumulated all kinds of wierd systems for storing all kinds of textual and other information ...`
`20:29.15`	`warmi`	`a big mess`
`20:29.37`	`warmi`	`but that's how everyone operates - people can't afford to "start from scratch" ever 5 years :-)`
`20:29.50`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: how do you do voice recognition?`
`20:30.02`	`Wintre`	`Yeah, I know.`
`20:30.25`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work there was an app on MS site for doing this - sort of like add-on free download`
`20:30.29`	`Neo\|Work`	`mutexer: I don't know`
`20:30.36`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: ah, so not default`
`20:30.41`	`warmi`	`but unfortunately I don't remember where excatly I found that`
`20:30.41`	`warmi`	`yeah`
`20:32.17`	`Neo\|Work`	`heh`
`20:32.23`	`Neo\|Work`	`I must have been lucky with my first test. :P`
`20:32.40`	`icefox`	`hmm is my name icefox, IceFox or Icefox?`
`20:32.45`	`Wintre`	`<icefox> hmm is my name icefox, IceFox or Icefox?`
`20:32.46`	`Neo\|Work`	`this isa cent fun little toy. that saicsaly wonder how this will 'took like`
`20:32.47`	`Neo\|Work`	`:-)`
`20:32.51`	`treke`	`icefox`
`20:32.56`	`kergoth`	`icefox`
`20:32.56`	`Neo\|Work`	`wtf is saicsaly anyway? :P`
`20:33.01`	`icefox`	`ok`
`20:33.36`	`mutexer`	`Is there any info on using the front panel buttons anywhere?`
`20:33.53`	`warmi`	`mutexer : Qtopia source code , I am afraid`
`20:34.15`	`mutexer`	`I dont understand this... it worked fine for my last game`
`20:34.21`	`mutexer`	`the buttons dont work at all now`
`20:34.36`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: btw, you said qte is good - well, compared to PocketPC and PalmOS it is really clunky meaning the _look_ of it`
`20:34.49`	`Neo\|Work`	`too much wasted space on 3d-looking borders, and crap like that`
`20:34.51`	`warmi`	`I don't know ... maybe qtopia is messed up`
`20:35.00`	`kergoth`	`Neo\|Work: use a style that doesnt suck`
`20:35.03`	`kergoth`	`Neo\|Work: :)`
`20:35.04`	`warmi`	`try restaringt qpe mutexer`
`20:35.07`	`Neo\|Work`	`kergoth: true, but still`
`20:35.08`	`mutexer`	`tried that`
`20:35.13`	`kergoth`	`Neo\|Work: try flat in opie`
`20:35.19`	`Neo\|Work`	`have you seen such a style?`
`20:35.19`	`Neo\|Work`	`oh`
`20:35.31`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work : PPC looks fine only when looking at the first page ;-)`
`20:35.36`	`mutexer`	`Ive even done a whipe`
`20:35.36`	`Neo\|Work`	`and the titlebar isn't quite so damn small`
`20:35.40`	`warmi`	`everything else looks like Windows 3.11`
`20:35.58`	`warmi`	`but yeah, Qtopia could use a bit more subtle borders etc .`
`20:36.41`	`Neo\|Work`	`that said, Qtopia's launcher is better than what you have in PocketPC`
`20:36.48`	`Neo\|Work`	`but the today screen is nice`
`20:37.02`	`Neo\|Work`	`Today in Qtopia isn't good because it's an app that takes time to start etc`
`20:37.54`	`warmi`	`well, that is a compiler fault ..`
`20:37.56`	`mutexer`	`restarting does return my keys to working.. but they still dont work in my app and they still crash after my app exits`
`20:38.04`	`Neo\|Work`	`and btw, cleartype - now THAT is awesome`
`20:38.31`	`Neo\|Work`	`as opposed to the anti-aliased fonts in Qtopia, cleartype fonts doesn't make the fonts look fuzzy, just better`
`20:39.17`	`warmi`	`yeah`
`20:39.30`	`warmi`	`well, you know - MS has like 40 000 people working for them :-)`
`20:39.42`	`*** join/#zaurus krezel (~mememe@166-90-245-44.ip2go.net)`
`20:39.45`	`treke`	`they are bound to get something right every now and then`
`20:40.29`	`warmi`	`10 or 20% of their engineering staff are Indians`
`20:40.53`	`krezel`	`Does anybody have experience with the C++ Boost library?`
`20:41.00`	`warmi`	`these guys are good`
`20:43.00`	*** join/#zaurus mewyn` (~mike@dsl081-228-057.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
`20:43.34`	mewyn`	`woo`
`20:43.36`	mewyn`	`rh 8.1 beta 3 is up and running`
`20:43.45`	`oGMo`	`what's new?`
`20:43.53`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: yeah, WinCE is nice in many ways`
`20:43.54`	`oGMo`	`since 8.0`
`20:44.04`	mewyn`	`well, for one, it's a lot snappier`
`20:44.08`	`Neo\|Work`	`although I have had to reboot a few times already, once because Internet Exploder stopped working`
`20:44.15`	mewyn`	`i'm checking for the bugs and broken shit in the last beta`
`20:44.18`	`oGMo`	mewyn`: cool
`20:44.29`	`treke`	`I wonder how much prelink + preempt kernel would help`
`20:44.35`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work : well, I still think that Qtopia launcher is a better idea`
`20:44.41`	`oGMo`	`rh8's X has this annoying habit of delaying a couple seconds between display opens`
`20:44.45`	`oGMo`	`hrm`
`20:45.26`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: agreed`
`20:45.51`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: my dream setup: default (first) page == TODAY type screen, other pages = categories, last page = file browser such as i the A300`
`20:45.55`	`Neo\|Work`	`that'd be like great`
`20:45.58`	`warmi`	`mewyn : well, I am sure that 3-4 days from now you will be bitching on this very channel about how seriously fucked up that new beta is :-)`
`20:46.15`	`treke`	`Neo\|Work: that would be really nice`
`20:46.38`	`*** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@h12-20-43-1.chubb.com)`
`20:46.39`	`Neo\|Work`	`the "programs" app in WinCE I don't like at all`
`20:46.52`	mewyn`	`warmi: hey, i liked the first beta`
`20:46.52`	mewyn`	`but they fucked up the second`
`20:46.52`	`Neo\|Work`	`and there's a Dell (I think) HOME app which I don't like either`
`20:46.54`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work: yeah, I have to check out Palm though - I wonder how is this done there , I never had one`
`20:47.08`	`treke`	`Neo\|Work: I think everyone has that`
`20:47.12`	`treke`	`warmi: the palm launcher is almost identical to the qtopia launcher`
`20:47.26`	`treke`	`warmi: except that it doesnt suck`
`20:47.26`	`Neo\|Work`	`Palm, as far as I have seen, have just the application tabs of qtopia but somewhat more flexible`
`20:47.26`	`Neo\|Work`	`it has list view and such`
`20:47.38`	`Neo\|Work`	`and theer's nicer third party PalmOS launchers too`
`20:47.38`	`treke`	`there are other replacement launchers that can do other things`
`20:47.48`	`treke`	`I usualled used launcher3`
`20:47.50`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work considering that Qtopia is harcoded , anything would end up being more flexible`
`20:47.54`	`Neo\|Work`	`a palm have no file browsing by default (dunno about PalmOS5) since it generally isn't needed`
`20:48.01`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: indeed`
`20:48.05`	`oGMo`	`palmOS doesn't have files`
`20:48.17`	`Neo\|Work`	`now, the a300 file browser can use both list view and icon / preview view`
`20:48.20`	`oGMo`	`which is exceedingly annoying`
`20:48.27`	`warmi`	`oGMo: this is tha part I don't udnerstand fully ...`
`20:48.29`	`Neo\|Work`	`oGMo: yes it does - all stuff is files. no directories though`
`20:48.41`	`oGMo`	`Neo\|Work: not in the conventional sense of the word`
`20:48.44`	`Neo\|Work`	`and that said, ones with SD, CF (if that exists) or other external storage NEEDS it`
`20:48.45`	`warmi`	`oGMo: do they like store image of apps in memory (frozen perhaps) ?`
`20:48.48`	`treke`	`Neo\|Work: I could live without the file manager`
`20:48.53`	`oGMo`	`it's like an associated gdbm file`
`20:49.00`	`treke`	`warmi: They store everything in a palm db`
`20:49.10`	`Neo\|Work`	`treke: dude, the A300 filemanager is ALMOST nice`
`20:49.16`	`oGMo`	`warmi: no, they have a database file... there's no filesystem, it's all in ram`
`20:49.21`	`Neo\|Work`	`it's not quite usable enough but it's very close - the idea is useful`
`20:49.25`	`oGMo`	`well`
`20:49.28`	`Neo\|Work`	`Documents tab is a wasted mess though`
`20:49.32`	`treke`	`oGMo: they just dont present the filesystem to you`
`20:49.37`	`oGMo`	`granted the Z has most everything in RAM, too, but there's a filesystem`
`20:49.37`	`treke`	`it still has to be there in some form`
`20:49.38`	`warmi`	`so you app doesn't have any acess to file system but instead is forced to use equivalent of QConfig class for everything you save ?`
`20:49.52`	`oGMo`	`treke: there isn't one, really, in any conventional sense of the word`
`20:49.54`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: you open databases`
`20:49.55`	`Neo\|Work`	`more or less`
`20:50.05`	`oGMo`	`it's like a resource fork ;)`
`20:50.07`	`Neo\|Work`	`and an "app" usually is a more like an executable database`
`20:50.12`	`oGMo`	`except there's no data fork`
`20:50.17`	`Neo\|Work`	`i.e it often has image data and such in the same file`
`20:50.33`	`oGMo`	`yeah`
`20:50.51`	`Neo\|Work`	`and mind you there ARE filemanagers for PalmOS`
`20:50.51`	`oGMo`	`plus all the other wonderful segmentation limits of pdb's ;)`
`20:50.52`	`warmi`	`actually this makes sense - I asume other apps can have access to these database and can read that from them`
`20:50.53`	`treke`	`palm applications are, uhm, interesting`
`20:51.02`	`treke`	`warmi: yes`
`20:51.21`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: an app, when executed, uses itself (i.e data stored in it) as "memory"`
`20:51.28`	`Neo\|Work`	`meaning about the same idea as mmap`
`20:51.33`	`oGMo`	`yeah`
`20:51.52`	`Neo\|Work`	`and there is no segmentation between storage memory and run time memory`
`20:51.54`	`oGMo`	`now you know why i love coding for the Z and hated coding for palmOS ;)`
`20:51.55`	`mark_`	`hmm, i need a c700. apparently knights looks too small on it`
`20:52.18`	`warmi`	`mark_: knights are hardcoded right ?`
`20:52.20`	`Neo\|Work`	`and, more fun, if you need to use more than 32 KB of continuous data, you need a "temporary database"`
`20:52.23`	`warmi`	`I mean the size`
`20:52.29`	`kergoth`	`mark_: they're running it in 640x480 i take it? they can always run in zoomed mode as a workaround`
`20:52.33`	`Neo\|Work`	`i.e malloc type functionality can only handle up to 32 KB chunkcs`
`20:52.37`	`oGMo`	`Neo\|Work: yeah, and ... fragmentation!`
`20:52.46`	`mark_`	`warmi: yes, i got pissed off with the layout code and just hardcoded it.`
`20:52.52`	`oGMo`	`i mean, it's almost like the old days of DOS, except worse`
`20:52.54`	`Neo\|Work`	`memory handling words like in old MacOS`
`20:53.00`	`kergoth`	`mark_: just run it on a 640x480 framebuffer for testing.`
`20:53.17`	`kergoth`	`mark_: you dont need a qvfb, you can run direct on a linux FB`
`20:53.18`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work : that sounds dangerously close to what used to be a golden (rotten?) standard back in DOS days`
`20:53.23`	`Neo\|Work`	`meaning you get a pointer to a pointer, and the actual memory area can be moved under your feed (to fix fragmentation etc) unless you lock it and get a pointer to the ACTUAL memory`
`20:53.29`	`warmi`	`64 KB segments or bust`
`20:53.31`	`mutexer`	`Ive narrowed my problem... if I leave out grab and ungrab keybaord it works fine except the mail button opens the mail program instead of workin in my app`
`20:53.32`	`oGMo`	`Neo\|Work: otoh, PalmOS apps i remember tended to be tiny and fairly efficient, which isn't bad`
`20:53.44`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: it's "old" yes. PalmOS 5 hardly have these issues though`
`20:53.50`	`mark_`	`kergoth: so the zoom mode takes a 320x240 portion of display and multiplies it up to fill the whole screen?`
`20:53.53`	`Neo\|Work`	`oGMo: true`
`20:54.00`	`kergoth`	`mark_: no`
`20:54.09`	`kergoth`	`mark_: the LCD itself has the ability to run in either 320x480 or 640x480`
`20:54.12`	`Neo\|Work`	`and PalmOS 6 most definitely will be entirely different since it's actually going to be BeOS based`
`20:54.18`	`kergoth`	`mark_: theres no perceivable performance loss, its _really_ in 320x480`
`20:54.23`	`warmi`	`mark: as I understand the zoom mode is a hardware mode - meaning it duplicates exactl functionality of 5500 LCD controler`
`20:54.23`	`oGMo`	`Neo\|Work: whoa really?`
`20:54.25`	`oGMo`	`now that's something`
`20:54.39`	`kergoth`	`mark_: er 320x240. bleh`
`20:54.39`	`Neo\|Work`	`oGMo: Palm bougth the BeOS intellectual property...`
`20:54.47`	`Neo\|Work`	`and hired a bunch of their developers I _think_`
`20:54.54`	`kergoth`	`mark_: technically, its rotated vertically as well regardless of current qtopia rotation`
`20:54.55`	`oGMo`	`Neo\|Work: yeah, i remember, i didn't think they'd actually do something cool with it ;)`
`20:54.57`	`Neo\|Work`	`PalmOS 5 is a transition OS`
`20:54.58`	`mark_`	`kergoth, warmi: ah, I see.`
`20:54.59`	`kergoth`	`mark_: so zoom always runs in 240x320`
`20:55.16`	`Neo\|Work`	`oGMo: I think they HAVE to do something drastic or they will die to WinCE`
`20:55.27`	`mark_`	`kergoth: so is that a per app setting? and when its launched a call to the LCD driver goes out telling it to switch resolution?`
`20:55.32`	`Neo\|Work`	`WinCE devies are now not just more powerful/flexible, pricing is also getting down there...`
`20:55.33`	`*** join/#zaurus stevek (~chatzilla@slim-eth0.horizonlive.net)`
`20:55.42`	`kergoth`	`mark_: yes, tap+hold on thie app to access zoom function`
`20:55.49`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work : yeah BeOS was very efficient - a perfect match for something like 200 MHZ PDA`
`20:55.50`	`kergoth`	`mark_: then it tells qt/e to do an ioctl on the fb to zoom`
`20:55.53`	`oGMo`	`Neo\|Work: yeah`
`20:56.22`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work so I understand you DO like your new Axim ?`
`20:56.23`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`20:56.42`	mewyn`	`how is palmos 5?`
`20:56.44`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: most likely by the time PalmOS 6 comes out, we'll be having (non-buggy) 400-600 MHz PDA's`
`20:56.45`	`Neo\|Work`	`at least`
`20:56.46`	mewyn`	`i've been wondering about it`
`20:56.54`	`mark_`	`kergoth: okay, thanks.`
`20:57.02`	`mark_`	`kergoth: i'd still like a c700 though ;)`
`20:57.08`	`mutexer`	Anyone have any idea why I get "no matching function for call to `QApplication::grabKeyboard ()"
`20:57.20`	`Neo\|Work`	`mewyn: that I have no clue about. :)`
`20:57.31`	mewyn`	`damn`
`20:57.35`	mewyn`	`no one seems to`
`20:57.38`	`oGMo`	`mutexer: probably because there is, in fact, no matching function for that call`
`20:57.40`	`kergoth`	`mutexer: because its a function of QPEApplication, not QApplication, iirc`
`20:57.55`	`kergoth`	`oGMo: you're so helpful :)`
`20:58.01`	`oGMo`	`kergoth: i try! ;)`
`20:58.15`	`kergoth`	`man i love LD_TRACE_LOADED_OBJECTS`
`20:58.19`	`kergoth`	`i always forget to install ldd`
`20:58.34`	mewyn`	`LD_TRACE_LOADED_OBJECTS?`
`20:58.45`	`kergoth`	mewyn`: LD_TRACE_LOADED_OBJECTS=1 /path/to/your/binary;
`20:58.48`	`Twiun`	`kergoth: isn't ldd just a script anyway? I just copied the one from my distro`
`20:58.52`	`kergoth`	`Twiun: yep`
`20:58.57`	`kergoth`	`Twiun: i just always forget about it :)`
`20:59.01`	`oGMo`	`kergoth: nifty`
`20:59.11`	`mutexer`	`is there a global pointer to the QPEApplication? IM using qApp->grabKeybaord()`
`20:59.13`	mewyn`	`kergoth: sweet`
`20:59.20`	`kergoth`	mewyn`: :)
`20:59.42`	`mark_`	`mutexer: just do QPEApplication::grabKeyboard()`
`20:59.42`	`oGMo`	`heh yeah my ldd just sets that`
`20:59.44`	`*** join/#zaurus AceDog (~AceDog@acelap.physics.tamu.edu)`
`20:59.45`	`oGMo`	`plus other things`
`20:59.50`	`mark_`	`mutexer: its a static method iirc`
`21:00.01`	`kergoth`	`oGMo: yep`
`21:03.47`	`warmi`	`anyone knows any links to Qtopia docs on the net`
`21:03.58`	`warmi`	`I used to have that installed on my machine but I lost it`
`21:04.13`	mewyn`	`qtdoc.tuxnami.org`
`21:04.16`	`kergoth`	`warmi: its on docs.trolltech.com now`
`21:04.17`	`nofpu`	`docs.trolltech.com?`
`21:04.27`	`kergoth`	`warmi: took em long enough`
`21:04.45`	`warmi`	`oh great ... Qtopia used to be "secret"`
`21:04.47`	`warmi`	`;-)`
`21:04.58`	`warmi`	`uh, but that's 1.6 ..`
`21:05.04`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`21:05.10`	`warmi`	`well, better than nothing`
`21:05.19`	`mutexer`	`yeah the problem is grab keyboard.. it not working correctly`
`21:06.05`	`warmi`	`there are quite a few new classes there ..`
`21:06.53`	`treke`	`dammit`
`21:07.04`	`kergoth`	`?`
`21:07.09`	`warmi`	`yeah ..`
`21:07.26`	`warmi`	`or use Namespaces ..`
`21:07.28`	`kergoth`	`they dont need a qpe prefix, but a qpe namespace would be good`
`21:07.30`	`kergoth`	`right ;)`
`21:07.35`	`treke`	`warmi: they fucked uo on tose docs I think`
`21:08.15`	`warmi`	`Qtopia Desktop Classes - whoa`
`21:08.17`	`treke`	`warmi: I really doubt the KVNC class is meant to be in there :)`
`21:08.18`	`warmi`	`look at this`
`21:08.25`	`warmi`	`a sync API`
`21:08.38`	`treke`	`same with Konsole`
`21:08.39`	`chouimat`	`warmi: where?`
`21:08.39`	`kergoth`	`not very scalable according to the opie devs`
`21:08.49`	`kergoth`	`they looked into and pulled in code from qtopia 1.6 quite some time ago`
`21:09.18`	`warmi`	`http://doc.trolltech.com/qtopia/html/qtopiadesktop.html`
`21:09.39`	`treke`	`kergoth: I just think there should be some indication that they are QPE classes and not joe class I've written`
`21:09.56`	`kergoth`	`treke: yeah, thats what a namespace is for`
`21:10.11`	`warmi`	`kergoth : could very well be - but considering that OPIE guys are writing a competing solution , I am going to check out trolls stuff first and see for myself ;-)`
`21:10.19`	`kergoth`	`warmi: certainly`
`21:11.01`	`Locutus4242`	`anybody try the new qtopiadesktop( Mar 3,2003 )?`
`21:11.08`	`warmi`	`treke as a workaround you can make sure that your classes use namespaces`
`21:11.15`	`warmi`	`so there is no clashes with qtopia stuff`
`21:11.37`	`treke`	`warmi: its not as much clashes as the mental tip off as to where something is coming from`
`21:11.58`	`warmi`	`yeah, I agree with that`
`21:12.08`	`treke`	`if I see QButton I know its from QT/e. If I see QPEApplication I know its qpe. I dont know where "Node" comes from though`
`21:12.38`	`icefox`	`http://occy.net/photos/archives/2000/2000-09-27_Muffin-New_VA/640/p1010049.640.jpg`
`21:12.56`	`warmi`	`treke : yeah ...`
`21:13.12`	`icefox`	`ah yes, nothing like _photos_ of whiteboards: http://occy.net/photos/archives/2000/2000-09-27_Muffin-New_VA/640/p1010053.640.jpg`
`21:13.24`	`icefox`	`course I must say that I am guilty of doing it to....`
`21:13.55`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`21:14.30`	`chouimat`	`hmmm qtopia-commercial-sdk-1.6.0 on ftp.trolltech.com`
`21:15.11`	`warmi`	`treke : 10 months ago when we were getting into this Qtopia stuff we were like pioneers ...`
`21:15.21`	`warmi`	`Qtopia is much better documented now`
`21:15.45`	`treke`	`hehe. "better"`
`21:16.03`	`treke`	`warmi: I'd say the stuff on docs.trolltech.com is worse then no documentation`
`21:16.04`	`warmi`	`definately better`
`21:16.18`	`warmi`	`have you seen the original stuff ?`
`21:16.22`	`treke`	`warmi: yes`
`21:16.24`	`warmi`	`uh .. this IS progress`
`21:16.53`	`Locutus4242`	`chouimat: and qtopiadesktop release v1.6.0 but it's broken`
`21:17.20`	`treke`	`warmi: It looks like the same quality of documentation just more of it`
`21:17.35`	`chouimat`	`Locutus4242: qtopiadesktop or qtopia`
`21:17.53`	`warmi`	`well, until we have a device running 1.6 - we can't really test it`
`21:18.16`	`warmi`	`and doesn't look like Sharp will be running Qtopia 1.6 any time soon`
`21:18.20`	`warmi`	`perhaps TI ..`
`21:18.27`	`Locutus4242`	`chouimat: qtopiadesktop`
`21:18.35`	`chouimat`	`Locutus4242: ok`
`21:19.07`	mewyn`	`warmi: TI?`
`21:19.17`	`treke`	`warmi: I like the classes that are documentented as having contructors and nothing else :)`
`21:19.31`	`Locutus4242`	`warmi: too bad we couldn't update the apps and libs at a minimum...`
`21:20.21`	`warmi`	`treke: ok .. I haven't looked inside yet .. :-)`
`21:20.23`	`gaurdian`	`looks like all the tkc apps have been updated :)`
`21:20.29`	`warmi`	`but on the outside it does look great :-)`
`21:20.51`	`treke`	`and at least two of the classes have to be mistakes`
`21:21.05`	`warmi`	`mewyn : Texas Instruments new PDA ( Qtopia based)`
`21:21.47`	mewyn`	`oh, cool`
`21:22.02`	`treke`	`warmi: have they confirmed its qtopia based?`
`21:22.43`	`warmi`	`treke : I haven't seen any confirmation or anything official - I am just going by what ljp and JasonNJ ( who was talking to them) was saying on this channel`
`21:22.48`	`treke`	`Ah`
`21:22.56`	`treke`	`I hadnt heard anything about qtopia`
`21:23.13`	`mutexer`	`I finally got it ungrabbing`
`21:23.23`	`treke`	`I had just heard they were calling around about linux`
`21:23.36`	`mutexer`	`the buttons arent working in my app.. but that maybe my fault`
`21:23.56`	`warmi`	`no, Jason clearly said it was going to be Qtopia based`
`21:24.06`	`warmi`	`but hey .. I don't really know`
`21:24.10`	`warmi`	`just hoping I guess`
`21:24.14`	`treke`	`thats cool. I just hadnt heard that`
`21:26.22`	`warmi`	`mutexer : this Qtopia 1.5 stuff sucks , doesn't it ?`
`21:26.23`	`warmi`	`heh`
`21:26.46`	`warmi`	`treke : are you writing any Qtopia code these days ?`
`21:26.58`	`Neo\|Work`	`anyone tried 1.6? Is it abt better?`
`21:27.11`	`treke`	`warmi: depends. I've got some open projects. Just been busy with oe atm`
`21:27.32`	`*** join/#zaurus krezel (~mememe@166.90.245.44)`
`21:27.32`	`*** join/#zaurus johnson (johnson@american.homegrown.net)`
`21:27.35`	`warmi`	`oh, right, I forgot you are working on OE`
`21:27.56`	`Neo\|Work`	`I NEED to port that game, it rocks`
`21:28.03`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work : OPIE guys claim it is not ...`
`21:28.10`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work : which one ?`
`21:28.10`	`treke`	`dunno if any of the stuff I'm working on would be of interest to the rest of the world`
`21:28.14`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: can't yes`
`21:28.18`	`Neo\|Work`	`s/yes/say/`
`21:28.26`	`Neo\|Work`	`the ppl asked me to wait till I got the source`
`21:28.33`	`warmi`	`ok`
`21:28.47`	`Neo\|Work`	`let me tell you this though - it could easily be the game _I'd_ personally enjoy the most. :)`
`21:28.55`	`Neo\|Work`	`of what I have ported so far`
`21:28.59`	`warmi`	`treke : what ARE you working on ?`
`21:29.08`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work arcade or puzzle type ?`
`21:29.19`	`Neo\|Work`	`uhm. arcade I guess`
`21:29.26`	`Neo\|Work`	`turn based strategy of sorts`
`21:29.32`	`warmi`	`ah ok`
`21:29.34`	`Neo\|Work`	`includes single-device and networked multiplayer too`
`21:29.39`	`warmi`	`I thought it was Bejeweled`
`21:29.40`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`21:29.47`	`Neo\|Work`	`but not turn based in the normal "tanks and other units" genere`
`21:29.57`	`Neo\|Work`	`nah, bejeweled isn't THAT fun. :P`
`21:30.12`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work : let me guess than - Snails :-)`
`21:30.46`	`Neo\|Work`	`Maybe, maybe not.`
`21:31.06`	`warmi`	`hehehe`
`21:31.27`	`treke`	`warmi: The current things I have on my plate are an inventory program and a port of xstroke.`
`21:31.37`	`Neo\|Work`	`ChangeLog: 1.6: Sucks less`
`21:32.02`	`warmi`	`xstroke: I heard something about it ...`
`21:32.03`	`warmi`	`hmm`
`21:32.17`	`chouimat`	`Neo\|Work: that help`
`21:32.19`	`treke`	`warmi: Its a full screen stroke recognizer used in X`
`21:32.26`	`Neo\|Work`	`chouimat: heh. :P`
`21:34.02`	`treke`	`it goes in sports though. Not always to keen on sitting a programming all evening afters spending the entire dayin front of a computer`
`21:34.26`	`Neo\|Work`	`btw, another nice little featurelette in WinCE is that when you press+hold the stylus, little dots appear in a circle`
`21:34.43`	`treke`	`yeah thats nice`
`21:34.47`	`Neo\|Work`	`meaning they show how long till it'll count as a "right mouse button" click`
`21:34.53`	`Neo\|Work`	`very nice feature from a UI perspective`
`21:35.07`	`Neo\|Work`	`now, that said, I think IE pretty much blows. :P`
`21:35.19`	`treke`	`the ie UI is nasty`
`21:35.56`	`treke`	`actually the UI for most of WinCE is pretty nasty with a couple of nice touches`
`21:36.59`	`Neo\|Work`	`treke: UI meaning? I tihnk the UI widgets are very good`
`21:37.04`	`Neo\|Work`	`NO wasted space etc`
`21:37.17`	`treke`	`Neo\|Work: UI as in the layout of the applications`
`21:37.24`	`treke`	`the widgets themselves arent bad`
`21:37.26`	`*** join/#zaurus lpb-oberon (~obi@pD9E16F48.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`21:37.37`	`Neo\|Work`	`that might be`
`21:37.49`	`lpb-oberon`	`re`
`21:37.55`	`Neo\|Work`	`but I tried the PIM apps some (like calendar) and I find it quite good`
`21:38.00`	`Neo\|Work`	`not perfect but pretty decent`
`21:38.12`	`lpb-oberon`	`kergoth: are u in?`
`21:39.20`	`warmi`	`treke: I agree with that UI part`
`21:39.41`	`warmi`	`basically UI on most PPC apps is ugly :)`
`21:39.54`	`warmi`	`which doesn't mean it is not functional`
`21:39.54`	mewyn`	`yes`
`21:40.14`	`lpb-oberon`	`does anybody know why oz copys always documents from /root/Documents to /mnt/ram/Documents`
`21:41.17`	`Neo\|Work`	`"ugly" as in ugly widgets or bad layout?`
`21:41.24`	`lpb-oberon`	`oz3.1rc2`
`21:41.28`	`Neo\|Work`	`because I think the 'ugly widgets' is part of what makes the ui more usable`
`21:41.43`	`larios`	`kergoth... i try to do cp -a /opt /mnt/card/opt by the terminal but says cannot create symlink /mnt/card/opt/opt/Qtopia`
`21:42.00`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work ugly widgets (too look at ) - just like Windows 3.11 which I think was one of the ugliest GUIs ever`
`21:42.16`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: they are simple 2d widgets yes`
`21:42.20`	`Neo\|Work`	`I find that to be a plus`
`21:42.24`	`warmi`	`scratch that - IBMs OS 2 was even uglier`
`21:42.25`	`Neo\|Work`	`NO waste of space`
`21:42.26`	`larios`	`�?`
`21:43.18`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: it's similar to PalmOS too except that input boxes are boxes and not just a line as in PalmOS`
`21:43.24`	`warmi`	`there is a theme for either KDE or Gnome , I don't remember - it is called "Web Theme" or something like that`
`21:43.30`	`warmi`	`I would like to have that on my PDA`
`21:44.09`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work : true - I mean having 2 pixel border on each side of the button is definately an overkill on PDA`
`21:44.10`	`lpb-oberon`	`larios: cd /opt`
`21:44.35`	`lpb-oberon`	`cp * /mnt/cf/opt`
`21:44.43`	`Locutus4242`	`warmi: having a title bar on a PDA is a total waste of space.`
`21:44.55`	`treke`	`yes it is`
`21:45.07`	`larios`	`lpb-oberon: thx... im going to do ir`
`21:45.11`	`lpb-oberon`	`or cp -r *`
`21:45.18`	`warmi`	`Locutus4242 : yeah, I guess - it doesn't do anything but displaying application name`
`21:45.25`	`warmi`	`which I guess is not all that usefull`
`21:45.29`	`treke`	`A titlebar could be useful`
`21:45.31`	`lpb-oberon`	`r like copy recursively`
`21:45.37`	`treke`	`if implemented more like the title in matchbox`
`21:45.47`	`*** join/#zaurus PorkySpine (~PorkySpin@213.58.33.103)`
`21:46.09`	`treke`	`that was a good use of space`
`21:46.14`	`warmi`	`treke : but what do you need that for ?`
`21:46.30`	`warmi`	`it is not like you can move the app around or anything using that toolbar`
`21:46.41`	`treke`	`warmi: you use it for task switching`
`21:47.10`	`treke`	`warmi: in matchbox the titlebar doubles as a drop down box of open windows to switch to`
`21:47.34`	`Neo\|Work`	`my dell comes with a little apps that adds among other things a switcher app to the titlebar`
`21:47.36`	`treke`	`which does away with the really stupid taskbar icons`
`21:47.37`	`warmi`	`well, but you can stick that functionality on the taskbar`
`21:47.55`	`Locutus4242`	`anything is better than just a place for a title`
`21:48.15`	`Neo\|Work`	`btw, I am BAFFLED that this device has no settings to make it use 24 hr clock`
`21:48.16`	`treke`	`warmi: the current taskbar is more or less unusable for anything`
`21:48.17`	`warmi`	`treke : taskbar can be usefull for hosting all these icons, displaying time etc ..`
`21:48.18`	`Neo\|Work`	`how lame is that? :)`
`21:48.36`	`Neo\|Work`	`treke: the taskbar icons are useless waste of space. :)`
`21:48.40`	`treke`	`Neo\|Work: what It doesnt?`
`21:48.49`	`Neo\|Work`	`treke: I see no way to change it`
`21:48.52`	`warmi`	`I guess what I am saying that the current taskbar should be combined with titlebar ..`
`21:48.57`	`treke`	`hrm, must be an opie feature`
`21:48.59`	mewyn`	`gah. 22 mins to transfer 6800 messages`
`21:49.20`	`mutexer`	`Does anyone know why the Menu and Email buttons are triggering a release event but not a pressed event?`
`21:49.24`	`warmi`	`mewyn : I distinctly remember you doing that kind of transfer before ..`
`21:49.25`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`21:49.27`	`treke`	`there is currently room for two running apps`
`21:49.44`	mewyn`	`warmi: yah. i need to rebuild my mailboxes`
`21:49.48`	`Neo\|Work`	`treke: in WinCE, not Qtopia`
`21:49.56`	mewyn`	`i had to pull the mail off the server, now i gotta put it back on`
`21:50.20`	`treke`	`Neo\|Work: hehe :) I meant in qtopia. I dont recall the wince taskbar doing anything but having volume and the input method control on it`
`21:50.34`	`Neo\|Work`	`treke: this is the titlebar. :P`
`21:51.03`	`treke`	`palm did somethings right. All you have on screen is the mainwidget`
`21:51.09`	`Neo\|Work`	`my titlebar has the "start" menu, title, app switcher, quick-lick to backlight settings and battery statys, volume button, time and ok/close whatnot`
`21:51.20`	`treke`	`if you want a menu, you press the menu button and there it appears`
`21:51.35`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work sure you can use 24 hrs clock on PPC`
`21:51.51`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: and where do you change that?`
`21:52.18`	`warmi`	`Settings \|System \|Regional Settings \| Time`
`21:52.34`	`Neo\|Work`	`doh, missed that one`
`21:52.46`	`lpb-oberon`	`grml`
`21:53.09`	`treke`	`the one thing I think the palm gets wrong is not having something like the taskbar with its applets`
`21:53.15`	`Neo\|Work`	`I figured there HAD to be such settings`
`21:53.16`	mewyn`	`damnit!!`
`21:53.19`	`Locutus4242`	`The leftmost icon in the taskbar is the active app, show the title instead and get rid of the titlebar.`
`21:53.26`	mewyn`	`acrobat reader still doesn't work with redhat`
`21:53.27`	`Neo\|Work`	`treke: palm has too litte space`
`21:53.43`	`treke`	`Neo\|Work: yeah. It wouldnt work out there, but I think its a major plus UI wise`
`21:53.50`	`warmi`	`mewyn : so the bitching starts , just as I predicted :-) heheh`
`21:53.51`	`warmi`	`just kidding`
`21:54.13`	mewyn`	`warmi: it hasn't worked since 8.0`
`21:54.14`	`kergoth`	`lpb-oberon: hey now, be nice to OZ or i'll be forced to hurt you`
`21:54.14`	`lpb-oberon`	`mewyn xpdf?!`
`21:54.17`	`kergoth`	`lpb-oberon: :D`
`21:54.19`	mewyn`	`xpdf blows`
`21:54.24`	`lpb-oberon`	`:)`
`21:54.26`	mewyn`	`half the pdfs out there don't work`
`21:54.43`	`lpb-oberon`	`kergoth how are u?`
`21:54.59`	`kergoth`	`overworked and angry at idiots`
`21:55.00`	`kergoth`	`the usual`
`21:55.01`	`kergoth`	`you?`
`21:55.12`	`lpb-oberon`	`i am fine thx`
`21:55.25`	`lpb-oberon`	`i have been to lazy today .. hrhrh`
`21:55.36`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work you are still running on 24 hrs clock - even after all these years in US ?`
`21:55.37`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`21:56.15`	`lpb-oberon`	`kergoth what is your profession?`
`21:56.24`	`kergoth`	`lpb-oberon: unix tech support`
`21:56.26`	`kergoth`	`blech`
`21:56.42`	`mutexer`	`thanks everyone who helped me out`
`21:56.58`	`lpb-oberon`	`hotline?!`
`21:57.01`	`warmi`	`mutexer : finally got that stuff working ?`
`21:57.42`	`mutexer`	`yeah stupid qtopia bugs`
`21:58.31`	`mutexer`	`it would be nice if the platform was bug free.. but tis only a dream`
`21:58.33`	`lpb-oberon`	`kergoth: is it possible that qutopia wont sync because oz copies all documents to ram?`
`21:58.55`	`kergoth`	`are you on crack?`
`21:59.00`	`kergoth`	`OZ doesnt store documents in ram`
`21:59.06`	`kergoth`	`it stores documents in /root/Documents`
`21:59.07`	`lpb-oberon`	`it does`
`21:59.10`	`kergoth`	`bullshit`
`21:59.20`	`lpb-oberon`	`i create a file in /root/documents`
`21:59.39`	`*** join/#zaurus sheenmaster (~sheenmast@Morristown-68-118-103-87.chartertn.net)`
`21:59.45`	`sheenmaster`	`Twiun: yo`
`21:59.49`	`lpb-oberon`	`wenn ich klick on that file in document tab`
`21:59.57`	`sheenmaster`	`Twiun: I paid for my new Z, it'll be on its way.`
`22:00.00`	`mutexer`	`at least I know another one of the bugs... some of the buttons on the face dont throw a pressed event.. just a released one .. from test I know thats true of the menu and email buttons.. and I believe its true of the cancel button as well... probably the other two button on the left side but I cant confirm it`
`22:00.29`	`lpb-oberon`	`dan change categories or so`
`22:00.34`	`warmi`	`mutexer : are you sure ?`
`22:00.36`	`mutexer`	`however home button, select button, arrow keys, and ok button all throw pressed events`
`22:00.51`	`lpb-oberon`	`after that the file is in /mnt/ram/documents`
`22:00.52`	`mutexer`	`its happening on my Z`
`22:01.29`	`kergoth`	`lpb-oberon: then you symlinked your /root/Documents somewhere else.`
`22:01.36`	`lpb-oberon`	`no`
`22:01.39`	`kergoth`	`yes.`
`22:01.46`	`warmi`	`oh I never tried using these buttons - i only used directional /select and ok buttons`
`22:01.55`	`kergoth`	`lpb-oberon: OZ doesnt even need ram at all.`
`22:01.55`	`lpb-oberon`	`mom ill put it on the cradle`
`22:01.57`	`mutexer`	`yeah all of those work fine`
`22:01.58`	`warmi`	`so maybe you are right .. I will have to check that out for myself`
`22:02.03`	`kergoth`	`lpb-oberon: and images are available that dont even hav ea ramdisk.`
`22:02.15`	`mutexer`	`thats what I couldnt understand ..half the buttons were working and the other half were not :)`
`22:02.39`	`warmi`	`mutexer : perhaps hardware doesn't generate "down" events - just up ones`
`22:02.41`	`warmi`	`who knows`
`22:02.42`	`lpb-oberon`	`k .. but it keeps moving my documents`
`22:02.47`	`warmi`	`or perhaps this is just another bug`
`22:03.02`	`kergoth`	`lpb-oberon: its not creating just a _.desktop_ in ram?`
`22:03.07`	`kergoth`	`lpb-oberon: look again.`
`22:03.29`	`lpb-oberon`	`no it moves the file`
`22:03.43`	`lpb-oberon`	`and creates that desktop file`
`22:04.01`	`lpb-oberon`	`./root/documents is empty`
`22:04.11`	`nofpu`	`ha - someone forgot to finish writing http://doc.trolltech.com/qtopia/html/extinputmethodinterface.html`
`22:04.18`	`kergoth`	`lpb-oberon: and it does this when?`
`22:04.30`	`kergoth`	`lpb-oberon: I've never heard this from anyone but you. ever.`
`22:04.55`	`lpb-oberon`	`i store the file in /root/documents`
`22:05.05`	`kergoth`	`yes you said that already`
`22:05.10`	`kergoth`	`i'm asking about what you do that moves it.`
`22:05.12`	`lpb-oberon`	`everything is ok`
`22:05.45`	`lpb-oberon`	`but as soon as i change categories it is in /mnt/ram/Documents`
`22:06.02`	`kergoth`	`okay, maybe a bug in categories system, report it in the opie bug tracking system`
`22:06.06`	`kergoth`	`ibot: opie bugs`
`22:06.06`		`from memory, opie bugs is http://opie.info/bugs/`
`22:06.33`	`lpb-oberon`	`:)`
`22:06.38`	`kergoth`	`man thats weird.`
`22:06.38`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`22:06.56`	`lpb-oberon`	`opie froze`
`22:07.11`	`lpb-oberon`	`and i had to do a reset`
`22:07.14`	`kergoth`	`the opie in oz is pretty old now`
`22:07.19`	`kergoth`	`unstable hasnt been updated in like a month`
`22:07.37`	`bipolar`	`kergoth: when is that going to be fixed? :-D`
`22:07.54`	`mutexer`	`warmi: wouldnt the home key or the ok button not work if that were the case?... I think it might be a bug`
`22:07.58`	`kergoth`	`bipolar: when i get off my ass and update it`
`22:08.07`	`kergoth`	`bipolar: our feed updater guy hasnt been seen in a month`
`22:08.09`	`warmi`	`mutexer :yeah .. I guess`
`22:08.09`	`kergoth`	`ibot: seen onyx4`
`22:08.10`		`onyx4 <onyx4@adsl-63-194-216-219.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #openembedded, 29d 1h 7m 55s ago, saying: 'lol'.`
`22:08.26`	`warmi`	`mutexer : or perhaps it is being filtered somewhere upstream`
`22:08.27`	`mutexer`	`it was easily fixable.. but a female dog to find`
`22:08.32`	`lpb-oberon`	`kergoth: when i store documents to cf i do not have that trouble`
`22:08.40`	`mutexer`	`possibly`
`22:08.48`	`kergoth`	`lpb-oberon: weird.`
`22:08.54`	`warmi`	`perhaps you should create global filter and see if that code will the events for these buttons`
`22:08.56`	`*** join/#zaurus Leaves (~Leif@d141-185-136.home.cgocable.net)`
`22:09.44`	`warmi`	`but I guess, these buttons are not generally used by 3rd party apps so I guess a bug like this could go unnoticed for a long time`
`22:12.18`	`lpb-oberon`	`hrhr`
`22:14.17`	`bipolar`	`kergoth: whats involved in using the build system to rebuild the unstable feed?`
`22:14.34`	`bipolar`	`kergoth: I used to maintain the handhelds.org qpe/opie feed way back when...`
`22:15.11`	`kergoth`	`bipolar: whats involved? running make and waiting for the iipks to appear`
`22:15.13`	`kergoth`	`i just have like 12 trees sitting here`
`22:15.19`	`kergoth`	`the main one i'm working on atm is the c700 packages`
`22:15.27`	`kergoth`	`which i wouldnt want as the main feed :)`
`22:16.04`	`bipolar`	`kergoth: we'll i've been away from it for a long time, but I have some time today to figure it out if you want a new maintainer. If I can automate it i'll make it a cron job on my server. :-)`
`22:16.19`	`kergoth`	`bipolar: grab the OZ buildroot and have at it`
`22:18.51`	`lpb-oberon`	`kergoth: what is your time?`
`22:18.57`	`lpb-oberon`	`where are u from?`
`22:19.29`	`bipolar`	`ibot: buildroot?`
`22:19.29`		`hmm... buildroot is a cool system for building embedded root file systems and can be found at http://uclibc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/buildroot/ or a heavily modified version used by the OpenZaurus project, or see oz buildroot`
`22:19.35`	`kergoth`	`ibot: oz buildroot`
`22:19.35`		`hmm... oz bk is bk clone http://openzaurus.bkbits.net/buildroot buildroot-oz; cd buildroot-oz; bk -r co -q; cp def-configs/collie-opie .config (for zaurus 5000d/5500) .. make oldconfig; make; or see bitkeeper (free download but non-gpl) or see 'oz snapshot' if you either cannot or will not use bitkeeper.`
`22:24.37`	mewyn`	`arg. i hate kmail`
`22:25.13`	`kergoth`	`then use mutt :D`
`22:26.21`	`lpb-oberon`	`hrhr`
`22:26.24`	mewyn`	`i normally use evolution, but for some reason it wouldnt see my subfolders in my inbox`
`22:26.26`	`lpb-oberon`	`obi`
`22:26.31`	mewyn`	`only kmail would`
`22:26.40`	`lpb-oberon`	`ibot obi`
`22:26.41`		`japanisch und heisst g�rtel!`
`22:26.57`	mewyn`	`and i had to use it to rebuild the folders`
`22:27.34`	`*** join/#zaurus cod (~cod@rdslink-v90-033.iasi.rdsnet.ro)`
`22:27.38`	`cod`	`hi > all`
`22:27.48`	`lpb-oberon`	`hoi^^^`
`22:27.55`	mewyn`	`kmail is so fscking slow, and it's horridly innefficent wiht large inboxes`
`22:28.06`	mewyn`	`it took up 200M ram`
`22:28.07`	`cod`	`any1 that worked with Perforce CVS like system around?`
`22:28.34`	`cod`	evolution/gnome? > mewyn` ;)
`22:31.07`	mewyn`	`huh?`
`22:32.03`	`cod`	`aint evolution/gnome faster on large imboxes thank kmail?`
`22:33.23`	mewyn`	`kmail transfers messages at less than 5 per second`
`22:33.33`	mewyn`	`for average sized messages`
`22:33.54`	mewyn`	`and it leaves them open in memory, leaving huge ammounts of ram in use`
`22:34.25`	mewyn`	`i've been waiting for 10 mins for it to close`
`22:35.15`	`lpb-oberon`	`gute n8`
`22:38.37`	mewyn`	`great. and kill -9 isn't killing it`
`22:40.29`	`Twiun`	`sheenmaster: hey :)`
`22:40.35`	`sheenmaster`	`Twiun: hi`
`22:40.50`	`sheenmaster`	`Twiun: how the hell do I scroll a java.awt.List component down with code!?`
`22:41.02`	`sheenmaster`	`Twiun: switch to #java if this is too offtopic`
`22:41.18`	`Twiun`	`sheenmaster: errr... lemme check the javadoc :) it's been a while since I've actually touched that code`
`22:41.22`	`Twiun`	`np`
`22:42.00`	`sheenmaster`	`Twiun: 1.3.1 javadoc mentions nothing about it`
`22:42.53`	`Twiun`	`sheenmaster: nor does the 1.1.8 javadoc... I don't know if that's something pure AWT supports`
`22:43.04`	`Twiun`	`sheenmaster: what happens if you just select() an index?`
`22:43.15`	`sheenmaster`	`Twiun: first thing I tried`
`22:43.39`	`Twiun`	`sheenmaster: then it's most likely only something that's possible with JList...`
`22:44.06`	`sheenmaster`	`Twiun: and JList isn't in Wonka of Kaffe, is it?`
`22:44.30`	`Twiun`	`sheenmaster: lol, no, JList is swing - and swing is too slow on the Z (regardless of vm)`
`22:44.59`	`warmi`	`swing is too slow . period`
`22:44.59`	`Twiun`	`sheenmaster: dunno what to say... implement a lightweight List replacement?`
`22:45.30`	`Twiun`	`yeah, I know`
`22:45.59`	`Twiun`	`I wish I could expose this kind of stuff through awt, but that'd break compatibility`
`22:46.31`	`sheenmaster`	`Twiun: java.awt.TextArea ?`
`22:46.53`	`Twiun`	`sheenmaster: yeah, but that isn't really meant for the same thing`
`22:47.08`	`sheenmaster`	`Twiun: I just want to display a filo stack`
`22:47.10`	`Twiun`	`sheenmaster: you could try faking it with a panel of labels in a scrollpane`
`22:47.26`	`Twiun`	`sheenmaster: that'd be scrollable to a particular one`
`22:47.51`	`warmi`	`http://www.trolltech.com/newsroom/announcements/00000122.html`
`22:48.11`	`*** join/#zaurus angry (~angry@ool-4356628d.dyn.optonline.net)`
`22:48.53`	`Twiun`	`sheenmaster: other than that you're going to have to improvise`
`22:48.59`	`Twiun`	`sheenmaster: sorry I couldn't help`
`22:49.33`	`treke`	`warmi: what I want in Qtopia is for dialogs to autoscroll if they are too long`
`22:50.01`	`Twiun`	`can't stay any longer... have to go get some sleep`
`22:50.08`	`Twiun`	`sheenmaster: good luck!`
`22:50.12`	`sheenmaster`	`warmi: I want X built into qtopia. Then millions of apps would work.`
`22:50.17`	`warmi`	`yeah, that would be nice - it can be done easily using custom code though`
`22:50.33`	`sheenmaster`	`Twiun: thx`
`22:50.36`	`treke`	`warmi: yeah but people dont do it :`
`22:50.57`	`warmi`	`sheenmaster : 90% of X apps would not work in 240x320 resolution`
`22:51.45`	`warmi`	`treke : I guess they could create QPEDialog or something like that`
`22:52.31`	`*** part/#zaurus AceDog (~AceDog@acelap.physics.tamu.edu)`
`22:52.44`	`warmi`	`but what you really need is apps written with PDA in mind - not just ports of desktop stuff - if people were doing that there wouldn't be need for autoscrolling dialogs etc`
`22:53.00`	`treke`	`warmi: this is true for the tkc apps`
`22:53.18`	`warmi`	`I only used their file manager app`
`22:53.35`	`warmi_away`	`got to go`
`22:54.23`	`treke`	`later`
`22:54.53`	`sheenmaster`	`Twiun[Zzzzz]: I found a 3rd party control, XList`
`22:55.07`	`treke`	`it happens with a lot of apps written specifically for the zaurus. people dont try opening inputplugins to see what happens when their app suddenly has half the vertical space`
`22:55.50`	`_Psycho`	`oh kergoth you updated the rom`
`22:57.10`	`kergoth`	`_Psycho: yeah, just some small tweaks, includes libts, screen, strace, and gdb now`
`22:57.28`	`_Psycho`	`irssi ?`
`22:57.39`	`_Psycho`	`tinyX work you said ?`
`22:57.51`	`*** join/#zaurus rastakid (~ask@hlm-san-2d32.mxs.adsl.euronet.nl)`
`22:58.00`	`rastakid`	`ibot, seen jrz`
`22:58.05`		`i haven't seen 'jrz', rastakid`
`22:58.24`	`kergoth`	`_Psycho: tinyx works, mallum is working on it now`
`22:58.33`	`kergoth`	`_Psycho: irssi isnt in the rom, i can upload an ipk if you want`
`22:58.39`	`_Psycho`	`i would ike it`
`22:58.40`	`rastakid`	`ibot, you're case-sensitive?`
`22:58.40`		`rastakid: I wish you would RTFM.`
`22:58.54`	`_Psycho`	`would save me a tons of time i bet ;)`
`22:58.56`	`rastakid`	`ibot, seen Jrz`
`22:58.57`		`i haven't seen 'jrz', rastakid`
`22:59.05`	`rastakid`	`ack, so you ain't case-sensitive..`
`22:59.42`	`bipolar`	`kergoth: Do I need to install a crosscompiler for the buildroot or does it take care of that automaticly?`
`23:01.15`	`chouimat`	`lol, just saw at tv add about viagra with Queen's We are the champions for the music`
`23:01.47`	`kergoth`	`bipolar: you can either build one, or download one of our prebuilt ones.`
`23:12.46`	`_Psycho`	`well rom work ok so far`
`23:14.37`	`*** join/#zaurus mtm (~mtmm@lax.oingo.com)`
`23:15.11`	`_Psycho`	`package easy todo ker or its a long thing ? ( i have no idea about .ipk stuff :)`
`23:16.49`	`kergoth`	`?`
`23:16.54`	`kergoth`	`package what?`
`23:16.58`	`_Psycho`	`irssi ;)`
`23:26.57`	`*** join/#zaurus ljp (~ljp@tq0207.peakpeak.com)`
`23:31.23`	`*** join/#zaurus br33zy (~br33zy@dt0f7n86.san.rr.com)`
`23:35.34`	`*** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-435182be.dyn.optonline.net)`
`23:36.57`	`*** join/#zaurus Leaves (~Leif@d141-185-136.home.cgocable.net)`
`23:42.05`	`bipolar`	`ibot: oz buildroot?`
`23:42.06`		`extra, extra, read all about it, oz bk is bk clone http://openzaurus.bkbits.net/buildroot buildroot-oz; cd buildroot-oz; bk -r co -q; cp def-configs/collie-opie .config (for zaurus 5000d/5500) .. make oldconfig; make; or see bitkeeper (free download but non-gpl) or see 'oz snapshot' if you either cannot or will not use bitkeeper.`
`23:43.26`	`*** join/#zaurus treke (~ggilbert@12.107.12.130)`
`23:45.55`	`mspencer`	`C700 == shipped! dances`
`23:46.17`	`warmi_away`	`mspencer : I thought you already had it`
`23:46.25`	`mspencer`	`not yet -- I already have the battery pack though. :)`
`23:46.34`	`warmi_away`	`oh you were waiting for Dynamism to receive their units from Japan`
`23:46.36`	`warmi_away`	`I remember now`
`23:46.46`	`mspencer`	`Fedex tracking page says it should be delivered tomorrow. :)`
`23:46.52`	`warmi_away`	`so you went for Dynamism unit right ?`
`23:47.12`	`mspencer`	`yep`
`23:47.22`	`warmi_away`	`$700 ?`
`23:47.48`	`mspencer`	`$717`
`23:47.56`	`warmi_away`	`uh .. this is the only thing that is keeping me from getting that unit - and the knowledge that Sharp may eventually come out with the official US version`
`23:49.16`	`mspencer`	`True -- but I can imagine the US unit would really be hamstrung as far as Japanese support goes. (��͓��{��ׂ񂫂傤��܂��B)`
`23:51.47`	`warmi_away`	`oh well`
`23:51.48`	`mspencer`	`(<insert mojibake here>)`
`23:51.59`	`warmi_away`	`you know , you are quite unique :-)`
`23:52.10`	`mspencer`	`Yeah. I'm an unusual segment of the market :)`
`23:52.27`	`warmi_away`	`I think most people are not currently in process of learning Japanese ..`
`23:52.28`	`warmi_away`	`heh`
`23:52.44`	`warmi_away`	`anyway, official US version would be a dream come true to me`
`23:52.51`	`mspencer`	`true dat...`
`23:53.06`	`warmi_away`	`well, will see`
`23:53.12`	`mspencer`	`in other news, the output from my battery pack is around 5.41 volts, after being let sit with both packs in parallel overnight.`
`23:53.33`	`mspencer`	`It was 5.5-ish last night, so apparently something went on in there overnight. Maybe they finally balanced out. :)`
`23:53.51`	`warmi_away`	`is that good or bad ? ( I , just like guardian know nothing about hardware )`
`23:53.51`	`warmi_away`	`heh`
`23:54.08`	`mspencer`	`I don't know. I'll have to see what happens when I hook it up to the Z.`
`23:54.27`	`mspencer`	`It'll probably either work perfectly, or it might give just barely not enough voltage.`
`23:54.37`	`warmi_away`	`hahah`
`23:55.04`	`warmi_away`	`well, nothing beats real life experiment`
`23:55.17`	`warmi_away`	`if it doesn't burn then your designed worked`
`23:55.19`	`warmi_away`	`heh`
`23:55.27`	`mspencer`	`Or it might do something in between -- make the charging circuit do weird things when the system load is high (bright backlight, 802.11b, etc) but work fine with low draw.`
`23:55.55`	`mspencer`	`I already did some of that last night -- carefully balanced the battery packs physically, so there was just about a 1.5 milivolt difference between the packs...`
`23:56.07`	`mspencer`	`and then plugged them in together and went to sleep :)`
`23:56.17`	`warmi_away`	`are you planning to carry this thing around ?`
`23:56.21`	`warmi_away`	`is it designed for that ?`
`23:56.22`	`mspencer`	`in a backpack, yeah.`
`23:56.41`	`mspencer`	`And yeah, it's well insulated and each battery/fuse assembly is in a plastic project box.`
`23:59.22`	`mspencer`	`My coworker says he's reserving judgement until he sees what kind of games I can put on it.`
`23:59.40`	`mspencer`	`I also remember from previous conversations with him, that he used to play a lot of the Gauntlet arcade game as a kid. ^______^`

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