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| 00:25.46 | Pendalar | no kergoth? |
| 00:25.59 | Pendalar | is the world ending? =-x |
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| 00:47.38 | chouimat | hi |
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| 02:12.43 | tiopenas | hello |
| 02:16.27 | tiopenas | what software are for SL-C700 ?? and where? |
| 02:20.36 | treke | tiopenas: killefiz.de/zaurus |
| 02:20.40 | treke | most of it should work |
| 02:21.02 | tiopenas | thanks i'm newbie |
| 02:21.40 | tiopenas | i'm looking for my first PDA |
| 02:28.42 | treke | c700 is going to be a bit overpriced for a first pda :) |
| 02:29.31 | tiopenas | i don't buy a PDA everyday ;) |
| 02:34.41 | tiopenas | in addition in Spain they are all expensive ones |
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| 03:02.39 | JasonNJ | sup Z homies. |
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| 05:27.59 | TDT | I was curious about something with OZ. When I update my kernel, I want to keep things running off my SD card, should I follow the instructions on the faq site about linking everything, or will that be done automatically after I reinstall? |
| 05:28.12 | kergoth | ? |
| 05:28.19 | kergoth | um, updating the kernel does nothing to the contents of flash |
| 05:28.25 | kergoth | which is where the links are stored |
| 05:28.51 | kergoth | so the answer is neither. you dont have to follow the instructuions, adn it wont be done automatically, becaues it doesnt have to be done at all. |
| 05:29.06 | kergoth | god i cant type today |
| 05:31.12 | TDT | lol |
| 05:31.42 | TDT | Yeah, I was looking on installing gcc on the zaurus, and deleted the opt directory on my sd card...man it screwed it totally up |
| 05:31.56 | kergoth | I need to just add gcc to the oz feeds |
| 05:31.59 | kergoth | proper ipks |
| 05:32.02 | kergoth | instead of that zip crap |
| 05:32.08 | kergoth | anyway, im out |
| 05:32.09 | kergoth | bbl |
| 05:35.05 | TDT | bye kergoth`bbl |
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| 05:53.17 | *** join/#zaurus BioNik (BioNik@ppp-66-141.BurNet.Ru) |
| 05:53.20 | BioNik | hi all |
| 05:53.31 | BioNik | server irc.rinet.ru channel #999 |
| 05:53.36 | BioNik | have a look |
| 05:53.38 | BioNik | very fun |
| 05:53.45 | BioNik | do not miss a chance |
| 05:53.47 | BioNik | server irc.rinet.ru channel #999 |
| 05:53.51 | *** part/#zaurus BioNik (BioNik@ppp-66-141.BurNet.Ru) |
| 06:05.19 | qnr | Anyone else having hardware probs with their Zaurus? I'm constantly having to do a hard reset |
| 06:18.31 | *** join/#zaurus sheenmaster (~sheenmast@Morristown-68-118-103-87.chartertn.net) |
| 06:23.39 | sheenmaster | does OZ have a key sequence for the backslash? |
| 06:23.53 | sheenmaster | I just used tab to autocomplete it rather than type it, but FlameCalc is getting an operator for "flip" and '\' is a candidate |
| 06:24.42 | vhalros | qnr: That would be unusual based on my experience. Damanged hardware you think? |
| 06:25.03 | Vhalros | Of course, my experience can hardly be called extensive :) |
| 06:25.39 | Vhalros | Perhaps if you are running unusual kernel modules. |
| 06:28.15 | qnr | perhaps. I thought it might be related to my CF card, but it happens even without it |
| 06:35.58 | Vhalros | Well, I can tell you mine definatly doesn't require hard resets, with the sharp rom or Open Zaurus... Except when I isntalled that broken package... Had to reflash that time :) |
| 06:37.06 | SHEENmaster | qnr: are you talking about the cardapplet bug? |
| 06:47.43 | qnr | sorry, had to walk the dogs |
| 06:49.09 | qnr | don't know, haven't been up to any of the sites recently, so I haven't heard of it. Basically, anytime I suspend, or it suspends itself with the CF card in it, there's a 90% chance I'll have to reset before I can power back up |
| 06:49.34 | *** join/#zaurus nikki (nikki@202.57.90.116) |
| 06:50.49 | qnr | and it just started this about a month ago - I hadn't done any upgrades or installed any new programs just before it started |
| 06:51.10 | SHEENmaster | qnr: haven't had that |
| 06:51.34 | SHEENmaster | qnr: but I remove the cf card before suspending to decrease resumation time |
| 06:51.48 | qnr | I think it's hardware related, because I have to kind of tap-tap-tap-tap the reset button in the battery compartment before it comes back |
| 06:52.15 | SHEENmaster | qnr: either way, you can use the communists as scapegoats. |
| 06:52.19 | SHEENmaster | ibot: what is communism? |
| 06:52.20 | | hmm... communism is a form of government in which the community has power over the individual. Do you all have the right to force kergoth into placing a political ad as /etc/motd in oz just because you all agree with the statement of the ad? Lets all be glad that no one on IRC can agree on anything long enough to force anyone's hand. |
| 06:52.29 | qnr | <nod> Thanks SHEENmaster - I try to most of the time, since it's a 256mb CF card |
| 06:52.43 | SHEENmaster | qnr: I use a 256mb SD card |
| 06:52.52 | SHEENmaster | qnr: MUCH better. |
| 06:53.24 | SHEENmaster | qnr: a 128mb cf card hold music, source code, and the OZ installation with needed packages. |
| 06:53.30 | qnr | I know, but I'm limited to 64mb SD cards here in this backwater. I guess I could buy one online |
| 06:54.38 | SHEENmaster | qnr: I buy everything online. $90 for a 256mb SD card |
| 06:55.18 | SHEENmaster | qnr: $300 for a Z-5500 w/ 128mb card, card reader, belt case, cradle, etc |
| 06:55.33 | qnr | Well, I'll be looking, I've never had any problems with my SD card, and have had two CF cards go screwy |
| 06:56.02 | SHEENmaster | qnr: how long since you last formatted it? |
| 06:56.05 | SHEENmaster | qnr: what fileformat? |
| 06:56.15 | qnr | now that's a pretty good price. |
| 06:56.51 | SHEENmaster | qnr: hehe, I'm about to blow $2000 on a new PowerBook 15" |
| 06:57.00 | qnr | I formatted one of them about 3 months ago (the 128m one) |
| 06:57.10 | SHEENmaster | qnr: I sure hope Linux can use that "velocity engine" crap. |
| 06:57.24 | SHEENmaster | qnr: are you using it as swap or any shit like that? |
| 06:57.27 | qnr | yeah, I just blew about $1,900 on a scooter |
| 06:57.36 | qnr | no |
| 06:58.05 | SHEENmaster | oh well then |
| 06:58.22 | SHEENmaster | qnr: do you think OZ would fuck up if I added a root password? |
| 06:58.34 | qnr | I guess I should get online and check some of the recent info, I've been so busy with my desktops that I haven't bothered recently |
| 06:59.19 | SHEENmaster | qnr: desktops==quake? |
| 06:59.23 | SHEENmaster | :-) |
| 06:59.26 | qnr | I have no idea, I don't have OpenZaurus |
| 06:59.45 | SHEENmaster | oh, that might be part of your problem |
| 06:59.54 | qnr | lol - nah, I don't even have OpenGL installed... mostly video editing and tweaking my distro |
| 07:00.13 | SHEENmaster | qnr: I don't have OpenGL working in Linux.... |
| 07:00.23 | SHEENmaster | qnr: Debian needs a better X configuration method |
| 07:00.40 | SHEENmaster | qnr: I use OS 9/X for games |
| 07:00.48 | SHEENmaster | qnr: most of the fun with a lot less guilt |
| 07:01.48 | qnr | know what you mean. I've had it working quite well at times, but I don't play games very much recently, so I haven't even bothered |
| 07:03.00 | SHEENmaster | qnr: I don't think I've ever had it outside of Mandrake, and even that required some tweaking. |
| 07:03.23 | SHEENmaster | qnr: but I jumped that boat shortly after jumping the M$ boat |
| 07:03.29 | qnr | I'm getting old & boring I guess, I'm pretty amused just playing the occasional game of Railroad Tycoon |
| 07:03.47 | qnr | Is this Afrosheen by any chance? |
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| 07:04.09 | SHEENmaster | qnr: nope |
| 07:04.22 | *** mode/#zaurus [+o Neo|Laptop] by ChanServ |
| 07:04.24 | SHEENmaster | qnr: MASTER of maCHINES, phonetically |
| 07:04.37 | RockGtrSeattle | so... 229 for a Zaurus as per that opening message, eh? what's the catch/deal with that? |
| 07:04.51 | treke | RockGtrSeattle: they are refurbs |
| 07:05.01 | qnr | ah, ok, well, Afrosheen used to be a regular answering video card questions on the Mandrake User board, just wondering |
| 07:07.22 | SHEENmaster | qnr: no, I hate video cards. |
| 07:07.24 | RockGtrSeattle | oh. |
| 07:07.28 | RockGtrSeattle | *sigh* |
| 07:07.46 | SHEENmaster | qnr: if not for xawtv I'd run my server headless |
| 07:08.00 | SHEENmaster | qnr: (unless my army of dumb terminals count as heads....) |
| 07:08.15 | qnr | heheh - yeah, they can be a pain... overall though, they're better than the eight digit LED I had on my KIM heheh |
| 07:08.54 | RockGtrSeattle | is the c700 actually going to be released in the US, or is it only going to be available via importers?? |
| 07:09.28 | treke | RockGtrSeattle: there is no 100% official word on it |
| 07:09.47 | qnr | is that the 640x480 I've been hearing about? |
| 07:09.49 | RockGtrSeattle | crap.. ok. |
| 07:09.54 | treke | qnr: yes |
| 07:10.00 | qnr | thanks |
| 07:10.32 | RockGtrSeattle | maybe the next time my friend goes to Japan I'll have her get one for me... |
| 07:10.33 | treke | RockGtrSeattle: it looks closer to no than yes though |
| 07:10.45 | RockGtrSeattle | then I won't have to pay the import markup. |
| 07:11.08 | RockGtrSeattle | treke: really? that's a shame... |
| 07:12.47 | qnr | hmmm... using three nicks on 3 servers... and multiple channels on each... I'm gettin' way too old for this confusion [random thought] |
| 07:22.13 | RockGtrSeattle | stupid Zaurus question: how do you update the kernel on it? compile it on the device itself, or build it on a desktop pc? |
| 07:22.32 | treke | RockGtrSeattle: for the most part you dont |
| 07:22.44 | RockGtrSeattle | you don't update the kernel at all? |
| 07:23.06 | gaurdian | why would you ? |
| 07:23.08 | treke | rom updates may contain a newer kernel, but for the most part no |
| 07:23.55 | qnr | grrrrrrrr |
| 07:24.07 | RockGtrSeattle | guardian.. y'know that's a good question.. i would have said fixes for any exploits, updated file system support, etc.. but you don't really *need* to worry about those things on the Z... |
| 07:24.32 | treke | gaurdian: to get the improvements that have been made in the kernel in the last year or two :) |
| 07:24.47 | RockGtrSeattle | now *that* would be a great reason. |
| 07:24.54 | RockGtrSeattle | so how would you get *those*? |
| 07:24.58 | treke | RockGtrSeattle: you don |
| 07:25.06 | RockGtrSeattle | huh...? |
| 07:25.15 | treke | dont |
| 07:25.25 | RockGtrSeattle | you mean whatever kernel you have.. that's just it... you're stuck? |
| 07:25.29 | gaurdian | treke, that being the case, they would most likely be in the newest rom :) |
| 07:25.31 | treke | more or less |
| 07:25.38 | treke | gaurdian: no they wouldnt ;0 |
| 07:25.44 | treke | gaurdian: the newest rom is still 2.4.6 |
| 07:25.51 | RockGtrSeattle | that... in a word.. blows. |
| 07:25.57 | gaurdian | I dont subscribe to the "kernel of the week club" or the "upgrade because I can club" either |
| 07:26.21 | gaurdian | and that rom works just fine for what I do |
| 07:26.25 | treke | gaurdian: There have been significat changes since then. The new virtual memory manager for example |
| 07:26.28 | RockGtrSeattle | I would just like to upgrade the kernel because I could if for no other reason... I'm just a hardware hack I suppose. |
| 07:26.53 | gaurdian | he is disscussing the Z, what VM in the Z ? |
| 07:27.56 | gaurdian | like I said, I upgrade if I NEED to, if there is a feature I need or fix I need, not because I can or want to |
| 07:28.41 | sig | can someone give me a streamin music location so i can test something out... |
| 07:29.51 | qnr | I'd just do a google search for online radio |
| 07:29.52 | RockGtrSeattle | are the roms that are on the zaurus devnet site truly the newest? or are there other ones that are currently only available when you actually buy the newest Z? |
| 07:30.12 | gaurdian | I have no idea RockGtrSeattle |
| 07:30.23 | RockGtrSeattle | guardian: fair enough.. |
| 07:30.30 | RockGtrSeattle | thanks for the added insights.. |
| 07:30.44 | RockGtrSeattle | i'm going to saw some logs... need to crash for a bit.. :) |
| 07:30.52 | qnr | night RockGtrSeattle |
| 07:30.59 | gaurdian | those are just my opinions..I am sure other people disagree |
| 07:31.04 | RockGtrSeattle | tnx. u2 |
| 07:31.05 | gaurdian | night |
| 07:31.23 | RockGtrSeattle | guardian: perfectly OK with me.. I want to here all perspectives... so it's all good, man. |
| 07:31.41 | qnr | I might worry if I went online with mine, but I don't |
| 07:32.05 | gaurdian | I actualy do go online with mine |
| 07:32.52 | gaurdian | but just for email and such |
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| 07:33.22 | qnr | too expensive for me to even think about at the moment |
| 07:33.37 | treke | back |
| 07:36.18 | gaurdian | I just wish a gcc ipk was avaliable |
| 07:53.01 | SHEENmaster | gaurdian: same here |
| 07:53.08 | SHEENmaster | gaurdian: I tried zgcc with no luck |
| 07:53.21 | SHEENmaster | Twiun: can your wonka port compile Java apps? |
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| 08:29.20 | Twiun | SHEENmaster|dead: only if you've got a compiler |
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| 08:51.56 | frankps | morning |
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| 09:44.04 | hypermush | anyone alive to help me rescue my zaurus |
| 09:44.26 | nofpu | did it fall down a well? |
| 09:44.37 | mspencer | "What is it, Lassie?" |
| 09:44.54 | hypermush | lol |
| 09:44.56 | nofpu | hehe |
| 09:45.12 | hypermush | i THINK it was a bad flash of OZ 3 |
| 09:45.20 | mspencer | I'm not a Zaurus owner yet, or I'd offer advice... |
| 09:45.21 | hypermush | but the files md5sum'd ok before the cf card |
| 09:45.35 | hypermush | now it boots but cant find a whole lot of files |
| 09:45.47 | hypermush | im pretty sure the initrd file was corrupt |
| 09:45.53 | hypermush | it only took like 30seconds of flashing |
| 09:46.03 | nofpu | you could try reformatting the CF card |
| 09:46.08 | nofpu | it should take longer than that |
| 09:46.18 | hypermush | yeah i know, but i dont have a card reader |
| 09:46.24 | hypermush | im thinking thats what i shall buy tommorrow |
| 09:46.33 | hypermush | and just reflash with original sharp rom |
| 09:46.53 | treke | mspencer: not dirty. just expensive |
| 09:47.05 | nofpu | you can flash to the sharp rom using the cradle and no CF under windows I think |
| 09:47.29 | hypermush | not in this state you cant :/ |
| 09:47.37 | nofpu | and you names the initrd 'initrd.bin'? |
| 09:47.39 | hypermush | it doesnt answer network calls |
| 09:47.51 | hypermush | no i named it "initrd" |
| 09:47.51 | nofpu | hypermush: ah |
| 09:48.04 | nofpu | hypermush: I think that's your probelm |
| 09:48.23 | hypermush | its meant to be initrd.bin!!? |
| 09:48.37 | nofpu | it's early here,. but I think so |
| 09:48.37 | hypermush | argh i swear the instructions told me to have it the other way |
| 09:48.38 | mspencer | Good. I ordered from them Friday....they say they're two to three weeks backordered. I've got lots of interesting plans for it when I get it :) |
| 09:48.52 | nofpu | mspencer: I'd love a c700 |
| 09:48.53 | hypermush | nope - your right |
| 09:49.21 | mspencer | The C700 uses a different CPU architecture from the US-released Zaurus models, right? |
| 09:49.28 | treke | mspencer: yes |
| 09:49.40 | treke | mspencer: the 5600 will use the same model when it is released |
| 09:49.53 | hypermush | thanks nofpu |
| 09:50.05 | hypermush | argh now all i have to do is find a card reader |
| 09:50.07 | hypermush | and i'll rename it |
| 09:50.09 | nofpu | np - guess you'll need a card reader |
| 09:50.30 | mspencer | I've had an Agenda for about nine months -- I found cross-compilers (for that CPU at least) can choke on a lot of code that compiles normally for x86... |
| 09:50.32 | nofpu | or a PCMCIA slot and a converter |
| 09:50.46 | mspencer | For those of you who cross-compile software for your Zaurus, do you have better luck with most software? |
| 09:51.25 | nofpu | mspencer: in my limited experience, I'd had no problems |
| 09:51.27 | treke | mspencer: Never had any problem with code that isnt x68 specific. |
| 09:51.56 | mspencer | (that really ended the love affair with my Agenda - when I kept downloading software that should work, and kept trying to compile, and kept getting errors...then again, the Agenda has a much smaller community than the Zaurus :) ) |
| 09:52.12 | mspencer | (probably not as much work put into the cross compiler for the NEC VR3.) |
| 09:52.51 | treke | mspencer: thats probably not the issue. The cpu is used in more than just the vr3 |
| 09:53.30 | treke | good be a buggy version of gcc, or maybe it was gcc 3.2 |
| 09:53.33 | treke | or 3.0 |
| 09:53.43 | mspencer | Hmm, probably right...it might just be the specific build tools for the Agenda. I don't really know enough to go out and find updated tools... |
| 09:54.05 | mspencer | and yeah, I think we've been stuck on the same version of gcc since a couple years ago, so it could be buggy... |
| 09:54.23 | treke | if it was some release of 3.x, that would explain it |
| 09:56.41 | mspencer | So the 5600 will have similar specs when it's released? It seems like that would make it really unlikely that this C700 would be an 'orphaned product'. That's good to hear :) |
| 09:57.09 | treke | mspencer: the c700 is a japanese product. the 5600 is a US product |
| 09:57.25 | treke | (the 5600 also happens to be very similar to the japanese b500) |
| 09:58.22 | mspencer | Architecture wise, though, do you think the C700 is in danger of getting orphaned? If the US will have products that are similar enough to the C700 that software intended for these new US models will still run on the C700, then there's probably no danger... |
| 09:58.48 | treke | mspencer: I'd be more concerened with danger to the US models |
| 09:59.14 | mspencer | Ah, good point...people might start to forget to package versions for the older US models... |
| 09:59.44 | mspencer | Now my question seems a bit selfish -- I'm worried about my soon-to-be new toy, but there's a huge installed base out there that has the same worry... |
| 09:59.49 | treke | the zauruses sell like crazy in japan, not so in the US :) |
| 10:00.13 | treke | the big thing for you is how long dynamism will keep up support |
| 10:00.42 | mspencer | I'm OK with a Japanese language Zaurus. Sharp JP will still honor their warranty, right? |
| 10:01.27 | treke | couldnt answer there. They probably would if you can deal with them |
| 10:02.27 | mspencer | Hmm...there was something else that caught my attention...maybe you guys could tell me if I'm imagining something that'll never work in practice. |
| 10:02.49 | mspencer | Bochs. I can imagine lots of interesting things to do with Bochs, even with pared down 100 MB OS image files. ^__^ |
| 10:03.42 | mspencer | I saw some software-repository links to a graphical Bochs, running Windows 98 even...and even accepting that the speed will resemble a 486-33 in processor, and really slow disk accesses... |
| 10:04.06 | mspencer | (forgive the strange word choice there...) |
| 10:04.15 | treke | thats generous |
| 10:04.46 | mspencer | really? I'd be interested in getting something like Maple running on that...even if it's slow, it's probably faster than a TI-92 :) |
| 10:05.12 | treke | maple a dos app? |
| 10:05.13 | mspencer | or so I hope. Bochs, as I understand it, aims for correctness over speed...so I could see it being extremely slow... |
| 10:05.19 | mspencer | My version is win32... |
| 10:06.55 | mspencer | Has anybody here used that Bochs build at all? Have you done anything with it "in production", or is it too slow for that? Is it just experimental-use-only at this point? |
| 10:07.44 | mspencer | (I'm in a number theory class, and having Maple in-class would be pretty cool :) ) |
| 10:08.40 | *** join/#zaurus vir182 (~max@chello213047156233.3.sc-graz.chello.at) |
| 10:10.10 | mspencer | I hope you don't mind all these (educated) newbie questions. I realize I'm probably clogging things up a bit for other people who might want to talk about something else... |
| 10:10.33 | mspencer | that or there aren't that many of us awake, and some conversation is better than none :) |
| 10:12.08 | vir182 | ok, whenerver i connect my zaurs to the craddle (and the intranet) i have to add/remove routing manually to connect directly to the internet. is there a way to set up the routing automatically with a hotplugin option (on the zaurus--- on my machine i already was able to set up automatuc loading for hotplug) |
| 10:14.11 | mspencer | Without knowing more about the Zaurus (because I don't have one yet) the best I can think of is a shell script on some kind of GUI shortcut, which swaps out your routes when run... |
| 10:15.04 | vir182 | problem is to connect the shellscript to the hotplugin trigger |
| 10:15.20 | mspencer | Yeah...I wish I knew more about that... |
| 10:15.25 | vir182 | on the dbeian (machine) side it was not a problem. on the zaurs side i have no clue |
| 10:15.34 | vir182 | ok. thx for the help |
| 10:15.46 | mspencer | sorry...I tried, and others seem to be asleep... |
| 10:16.25 | mspencer | Dynamism says I've got two to three more weeks to wait... |
| 10:17.18 | vir182 | waiting for the zaurus? |
| 10:17.24 | mspencer | Yeah... |
| 10:17.27 | *** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@m332-mp1.cvx1-b.man.dial.ntli.net) |
| 10:18.24 | vir182 | i have to admid that i do not use like i should. the functionality which i use momentanly is only addressbook and calendar. |
| 10:19.20 | mspencer | Yeah. I've already got an Agenda, and it's OK for simple PDA functions, occasional scripting...got an early 1990's computer algebra system...and of course simple games... |
| 10:19.44 | George- | lol |
| 10:20.50 | mspencer | but I really wish I had more. The C700 really seems like it'd be a godsend -- lots of capabilities, very interesting programs...it shows a lot more promise, community wise -- it seems a lot less likely to get abandoned by its userbase. :) |
| 10:21.05 | mspencer | I think most of the really smart Agenda developers got a Zaurus ^__^ |
| 10:22.05 | George- | mspencer: don't do it :) |
| 10:22.28 | George- | mspencer: from what i've heard, the C700 has a shoddy battery life |
| 10:22.37 | George- | mspencer: I have enough trouble with the 5000D :) |
| 10:23.00 | mspencer | Right, but I'm thinking of doing an outboard battery pack: http://www.dansdata.com/cambattery.htm |
| 10:23.25 | George- | seems a bit of a waste tho... |
| 10:23.51 | mspencer | it's a shame that page doesn't tell you where to *buy* the stuff...but it looks like it could really work. I'm usually either near an outlet or near my bookbag, so I wouldn't need to spend much time on internal batteries only... |
| 10:24.14 | George- | I love the Psion 5 :) |
| 10:25.24 | mspencer | either some tagged NiMH D cells, some solder, some duct tape, and a Zaurus power supply connector...or one or two SLA batteries and the "official" cigarette lighter adapter :) |
| 10:25.47 | George- | heh |
| 10:26.41 | mspencer | (SLA is Sealed Lead Acid -- heavy, flat discharge curve which makes about the last 20-30% of the battery's capacity unusuable for electronics...but cheap and lots of capacity. 15000 mAh sounds about right ^__^ ) |
| 10:27.58 | mspencer | But yeah -- even if I have to run the C700 plugged in most of the time, it's tolerable. The battery life doesn't concern me that much. (I say that now...) |
| 10:28.26 | George- | lol |
| 10:28.32 | vir182 | i forgot wher i have to put the ipk packages when i upload them with ftp. any suggestions? |
| 10:28.32 | George- | oh well |
| 10:29.07 | George- | I'm annoyed with my powerbook because the damn battery doesn't like to work for more than 30 minutes :( |
| 10:29.35 | mspencer | btw, I've got a question about cell phones as modems...I've never heard of it working, but I've got a nice, reasonably-affordable quote from my local telco... |
| 10:30.10 | mspencer | That is, in theory it seems nice -- 19.2k or 14.4k modem connection anywhere you have cell service...but then again I've talked to lots of people on cell phones where there are dropouts and whatnot... |
| 10:30.49 | mspencer | In practice, does using your cell phone as a modem actually work? Will I find myself redialing every 5 minutes? Or if I don't move the phone around is it pretty likely to stay connected? |
| 10:31.40 | mspencer | (Qwest can get me into a plan: $230-ish for phones, $60/month -- *unlimited* 24x7 airtime to my home phone number. Which will be a dialup server :) ) |
| 10:32.02 | Twiun | morning peeps |
| 10:32.31 | mspencer | so many questions...sorry guys...but when I got my Agenda I just assumed it could do a lot of things it turned out to be unable to do. I'd like to hear that some of these weird plans I've got will actually work. :) |
| 10:32.44 | mspencer | Morning :) |
| 10:36.16 | mspencer | Maybe here's a better question to ask: what does the Zaurus 'feel like'? Do you feel like you've got a full-blown general purpose computer in your hands, capable of (scaled down versions of) just about anything? Or are there any severe limits that surprised you, that stop it from doing what you thought it could do? |
| 10:37.15 | mspencer | Maybe it's too early in the morning for this :) |
| 10:37.22 | treke | mspencer: the biggest limit is the formfacter |
| 10:37.26 | treke | mspencer: or too late at night :) |
| 10:37.31 | mspencer | true :) |
| 10:37.39 | Twiun | mspencer: along with limitations on some software (read jeode) |
| 10:38.09 | mspencer | Jeode doesn't like some kinds of applets? |
| 10:38.38 | treke | mspencer: when I ssh in from my workstation I cant really tell the difference |
| 10:38.49 | mspencer | Cool :) |
| 10:39.04 | Twiun | mspencer: it's more artificial limitations on other things, at the code level |
| 10:39.05 | treke | obviously there are size constraints though |
| 10:39.13 | Twiun | means you start writing non-portable java code |
| 10:39.34 | mspencer | Hmm...that's not so good then... |
| 10:40.03 | Twiun | treke: just tested the wonka jvm as an sdk using jikes as a compiler... 5mb uncompressed size |
| 10:40.06 | mspencer | But do you feel like you could take most any app off of sourceforge, feed it to a cross-compiler, and run it? (within architecture limits of course) |
| 10:40.22 | Twiun | yup |
| 10:40.39 | Twiun | mspencer: along with most debian ARM packages |
| 10:40.40 | mspencer | I took a Java class, and they say I got an A in it, but I don't think I could actually write a useful Java program... |
| 10:40.45 | Twiun | hehe |
| 10:41.18 | mspencer | Wow...that's...better than I had hoped. Seriously. :) |
| 10:41.36 | Twiun | mspencer: I'm working on bringing an open source jvm to the Z, so we can tweak it :) |
| 10:41.59 | treke | mspencer: Twiun that could be cool :) |
| 10:42.09 | mspencer | erm...^__^ |
| 10:42.19 | treke | mspencer: A limitation is that X apps wont run within the qtopia environment |
| 10:42.30 | mspencer | Hmm... |
| 10:42.51 | mspencer | Is there anything like an X server that'll just take individual programs? |
| 10:42.52 | treke | you can however install x |
| 10:43.03 | treke | mspencer: there is the vncserver |
| 10:43.04 | mspencer | (I had a win32 X server that did that...created X windows as Windows windows...) |
| 10:43.14 | *** join/#zaurus Abciximab (~Abciximab@pD9EC35EE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:43.15 | mspencer | ooh, that would rock... |
| 10:44.07 | mspencer | so besides vncserver and a Qtopia VNC viewer...or shutting down Qtopia and starting X on the console directly...actually, never mind, that's plenty ^__^ |
| 10:44.24 | mspencer | (forgive the smileys -- bad habit I can't seem to break.) |
| 10:45.58 | mspencer | btw, what about the xscale processor used in the C700? That won't take Debian ARM packages, will it? |
| 10:46.08 | treke | yeah it will |
| 10:46.16 | mspencer | oh...cool..this I didn't know :) |
| 10:46.33 | mspencer | I need to learn more about this xscale apparently... |
| 10:47.20 | mspencer | OK, I'm sold. Well, I already ordered it, I'm just even more sold than I was when I placed the order. :) |
| 10:48.01 | treke | mspencer: once its ported, you may want to give openzaurus a shot |
| 10:48.17 | mspencer | I think I will :) |
| 10:48.44 | mspencer | btw, I heard about some weirdness with SD memory cards. From what I've read on the forums...correct me if I'm wrong... |
| 10:49.06 | treke | sandisk cards arent recommended |
| 10:49.15 | mspencer | I think I heard that SD cards don't work with OZ yet, due to lack of a driver, and some people have problems with some brands of SD cards. |
| 10:49.24 | treke | SD works fine with OZ |
| 10:49.33 | mspencer | oh...cool :) |
| 10:49.48 | mspencer | How did you get around the driver source thing? Or is that not an issue because you already have a kernel module for it? |
| 10:49.51 | *** join/#zaurus platypus (~platypus@ip64-75-158-26.cvx01.dial.flex.com) |
| 10:50.25 | treke | oz uses a version of the zaurus kernel that is only slightly modified |
| 10:50.35 | treke | so they can still use the sd module |
| 10:50.36 | mspencer | ah, gotcha. :) |
| 10:50.51 | mspencer | I posted a weird idea in the forum -- I wonder if this would be possible... |
| 10:51.04 | treke | the SD driver is what is holding up moving to the new 2.4.19 kernel |
| 10:51.07 | mspencer | find the entry points for the SD module, run the binary code through a disassembler... |
| 10:51.18 | treke | mspencer: kergoth has already tried that |
| 10:51.23 | mspencer | and create 'fake source code" for the kernel tree... |
| 10:51.32 | mspencer | oh...wow...it didn't work? |
| 10:51.43 | treke | mspencer: The code for most of the kernel is open, it just the sd driver |
| 10:52.01 | mspencer | Right -- that's the only part I'm proposing this for...but it sounds like it didn't work... |
| 10:52.25 | mspencer | Did he seem like he was making progress at first, and then run into a roadblock? Or are we pretty sure that idea is dead? |
| 10:52.27 | treke | some of the internal structure of the kernel has changed significantly in the year and the half since 2.4.6 was released |
| 10:53.27 | mspencer | I suppose the other suggestion would be...could we give Sharp (or someone Sharp has an NDA with) a kernel tarball, ask them to apply the SD driver patch and compile, and give us the binary? ^__^ |
| 10:53.37 | treke | mspencer: that has been tried also |
| 10:53.41 | mspencer | damn... |
| 10:53.53 | treke | someone at lineo was going to do that |
| 10:54.06 | treke | unfortunatly metrowerks bought lineo and he is no longer with them |
| 10:54.15 | *** part/#zaurus platypus (~platypus@ip64-75-158-26.cvx01.dial.flex.com) |
| 10:54.47 | treke | mspencer: all isnt lost yet |
| 10:54.55 | mspencer | cool :) |
| 10:55.12 | treke | it just isnt something that is likely to happen in the near future |
| 10:55.35 | mspencer | So genuine hardware problems notwithstanding, I can buy an SD card and not worry about it being unsupported by OZ, right? :) |
| 10:55.38 | treke | the kernels that sharp ships do work, they just dont work as well as they cood |
| 10:56.09 | mspencer | just not sandisk ^__^ |
| 10:56.34 | treke | mspencer: There is a list somewhere. The zaurus driver has some sd issues in general. But if it works on the zaurus it should work on oz |
| 10:56.49 | mspencer | Ah, gotcha. :) |
| 10:57.26 | treke | there may be others problem cards. sandisk is known as a problem brand though |
| 10:57.49 | treke | sd in general looks to be spotty from research I've done |
| 10:57.55 | mspencer | Gotcha...I've seen some message board postings that speak highly of Lexar SD cards... |
| 10:58.15 | mspencer | and there was one other brand...I forgot it...or maybe I'm mixing them up... |
| 11:00.23 | mspencer | One more and then I'm going to bed...I appreciate this, guys... |
| 11:00.56 | mspencer | I currently carry my Agenda around in my pocket -- car keys touching the back of the unit, where scratches don't matter -- and it holds up pretty well. The Zaurus is about 1 cm wider and taller, and a bit thicker... |
| 11:01.04 | mspencer | (erm the Zaurus C700 is...) |
| 11:01.34 | treke | mspencer: there are some really nice screen protectors, cant remember the URL though |
| 11:01.34 | mspencer | do you suppose I could safely carry that around in my pants pocket also? That screen really worries me...I'd hate to ruin an expensive screen like that... |
| 11:02.30 | mspencer | I'm more worried about sitting down, having the force of my pants against the Zaurus very slightly bend/warp the case...not nearly enough that it won't bounce right back...but that it'd cause problems with the screen, or even crack it... |
| 11:02.39 | treke | mspencer: what zaurus did you order/ |
| 11:02.44 | mspencer | C700 |
| 11:03.22 | treke | mspencer: I'd worry more about scratches myself |
| 11:03.55 | mspencer | OK -- definitely a screen protector then. Are the cases built pretty rugged? Not a lot of give in them, right? |
| 11:04.03 | treke | havent seen a c700 |
| 11:04.29 | mspencer | True...but except for that strange hinge, I imagine the case itself would be built similarly to the ones already out there... |
| 11:04.47 | treke | most pdas are tough enough to put in your pocket |
| 11:04.59 | treke | the biggest danger is with scratching up the screen |
| 11:05.43 | mspencer | cool. That's the whole reason I'm getting this instead of a laptop -- my Agenda can't do very much, but it's become a standard pocket item. I feel weird if it's not there. I'd like the Zaurus to be the same way. :) |
| 11:05.43 | treke | I walk around with keys, a leatherman, a phone, and my pda in my pockets. I've done some nasty jobs on screen protectors, but each time they've given their lives so the screen lives on :) |
| 11:06.01 | mspencer | Cool :) |
| 11:06.38 | mspencer | What's a screen protector then? I was imagining a thin plastic film that keeps the screen from getting scratches but still transmits pressure through to the touch screen... |
| 11:06.48 | mspencer | were you talking about something hard plastic, to keep the screen from being broken? |
| 11:07.01 | treke | I've taken it out of my pocket to see a big nasty gash in the protector, only to find the screen underneath not noticibly damaged |
| 11:07.16 | treke | mspencer: There are both. I'm refering to the thin plastic ones right now |
| 11:07.23 | mspencer | oh, cool :) |
| 11:07.34 | treke | the 5500 came with a hard plastic one |
| 11:07.40 | treke | or maybe that was the 5000d |
| 11:08.00 | treke | with the c700, you may just be able to close the lid with the lcd on the inside |
| 11:08.01 | mspencer | My Agenda has a plastic lid that covers the screen -- I gashed that lid with my keys pretty well, so now I always make sure the screen is facing my leg, and my car keys are facing the outside... |
| 11:08.08 | mspencer | Ah...cool then :) |
| 11:08.33 | mspencer | So it sounds like if the screen was anywhere near as fragile as I was scared of...they wouldn't even dare sell it in a consumer product...right? |
| 11:09.07 | treke | I wouldnt go that far :) people will sell anything they think they can get away with selling |
| 11:09.14 | mspencer | heh true :) |
| 11:09.57 | mspencer | but I imagine with the clamshell closed, there's almost no way I'm going to sit down and overstress the thing...if my Agenda can survive it, the C700 should be able to also :) |
| 11:10.57 | mspencer | (in case anyone doesn't know what weird obscure PDA I'm referring to... http://www.softfield.com sells them now -- they're decent for the price, but nowhere near the capabilities or the expansion capabilities of the Zaurus.) |
| 11:11.29 | treke | the yopy actually looks kinda cool also |
| 11:11.39 | mspencer | link? :) |
| 11:12.05 | treke | http://www.yopy.com/ |
| 11:12.16 | treke | never really took off though |
| 11:12.19 | mspencer | ...actually, I should probably go to bed. I feel like I'm being too familiar with you guys already, for being so new. I should hang back and watch for a while... |
| 11:12.29 | treke | at least not in the us |
| 11:12.35 | treke | bah screw that |
| 11:13.25 | Abciximab | i updated via ipkg to testing and afterthat opie didnt start, then i updated to unstable but still have the same problem, any ideas? |
| 11:13.34 | mspencer | It does look interesting...and thanks :) |
| 11:17.22 | vir182 | maybe now someone can help me: whenever i put my zaurs on the lan i have to add the route (on the zaurs) manually. does anoyne know how i can trigger the hotplugin with a scriupt which sets up my routing table automatically whenever i put my Zaurs un the craddle? |
| 11:19.37 | Abciximab | i configured /etc/network/interfaces and put a link in /etc/rc2.d to /etc/init.d/networking |
| 11:22.51 | vir182 | Abciximab that's not what i want. i would like that the script is triggered whenever i put it in the craddle. not when i start my Zaurus |
| 11:25.40 | Abciximab | vir182: usb? |
| 11:26.42 | vir182 | yep |
| 11:26.56 | *** join/#zaurus ShiShi (~ShiShi@APuteaux-105-1-5-12.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:26.58 | ShiShi | hello |
| 11:27.05 | Twiun | salut |
| 11:27.19 | vir182 | i found /etc/hotplug and there are some scripts |
| 11:27.22 | ShiShi | coucou Twiun |
| 11:27.28 | vir182 | but it sets up a dhcp server |
| 11:27.49 | vir182 | not sure if i should mess around with scripts from other ppl ;-) |
| 11:28.00 | ShiShi | i am looking for 'qpe-base' ipk where can i find it ? |
| 11:28.09 | Abciximab | this works for me: http://www.ruault.com/Zaurus/ethernet-over-usb-howto.html |
| 11:28.55 | *** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@m232-mp1.cvx1-a.man.dial.ntli.net) |
| 11:28.56 | George- | ARGH! |
| 11:29.23 | George- | I just phoned up apple, they refuse to repair my computer under the PC World extended warranty, and when I last phoned PC World, they redirected me to Apple |
| 11:29.24 | George- | GRRRR |
| 11:29.36 | Abciximab | does anyone considered problems starting opie when upgrading to testing or unstable? |
| 11:30.02 | ShiShi | yeah |
| 11:30.41 | Abciximab | ShiShi: ? |
| 11:30.42 | ShiShi | in unstable , but this works fine know |
| 11:30.42 | treke | George-: haha |
| 11:30.44 | treke | told you so |
| 11:31.04 | Abciximab | ShiShi: what did you do? |
| 11:31.33 | ShiShi | i look error at boot , and desinstall libopie and reinstall it |
| 11:31.41 | George- | treke: basically, If I'm caught in a cycle of being redirected, I'm gonna demand PC World refund my computer *and* my warranty |
| 11:31.47 | ShiShi | and lipopie1 too |
| 11:31.54 | ShiShi | and libopie1 too |
| 11:31.59 | treke | <PC World> George-: fuck off |
| 11:32.09 | Abciximab | ok i will try that now |
| 11:32.14 | George- | treke: cuz I can't buy an Apple extended warranty now, since the damn 1 year warranty has run out |
| 11:33.10 | George- | treke: I spent ~$800 USD on the extended warranty, I don't expect it not to be repaired when it needs repairing |
| 11:33.11 | George- | £*(&%@£% |
| 11:37.24 | ShiShi | someone can tell me where can i find 'qpe-base' ? |
| 11:37.41 | treke | ShiShi: -force-depends |
| 11:37.45 | George- | ok phoning pc world now |
| 11:37.54 | George- | "DIE BASTARDS" ;) |
| 11:41.55 | *** join/#zaurus mark (~mark@s.westcott.freeuk.com) |
| 11:42.04 | mark | hi * |
| 11:42.16 | raceme | George-: is pc world the thing selling stuffs for pc in england ? (which is far more expensive than anywhere else ?) |
| 11:42.42 | George- | raceme: yes |
| 11:42.47 | mark | hi George- |
| 11:42.50 | George- | hi mark |
| 11:43.04 | raceme | George-: ok i see... I used to visit the one in Croydon... |
| 11:43.42 | George- | heh |
| 11:43.56 | George- | if pc world redirefct me to apple i'll go mad |
| 11:44.49 | raceme | but computer stuff is *far* more expensive in england than in france... so no more pcworld visits :) |
| 11:45.29 | *** join/#zaurus Abciximab (~Abciximab@pD9EC25C5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:47.13 | George- | blah |
| 11:47.22 | George- | they redirected me to yet another company |
| 11:47.27 | George- | which is only open mon-fri |
| 11:47.31 | George- | grmbl |
| 11:50.33 | George- | ahhh fuck iit |
| 11:50.51 | George- | let's just demand a god damn refund |
| 11:50.52 | George- | lol |
| 11:50.58 | George- | piece of shit |
| 11:52.53 | Abciximab | ShiShi: you said you removed libopie* and reinstalled it? Ok, I did that, but doesnt work :( |
| 11:57.49 | *** join/#zaurus frankps (~frankps@10.80-202-169.nextgentel.com) |
| 12:02.07 | nofpu | I hate using |
| 12:02.15 | nofpu | LWP::UserAgent |
| 12:03.03 | nofpu | oops wrong channel but I dont care :) |
| 12:05.15 | nofpu | actually it's javascript in forms I hate |
| 12:09.12 | Abciximab | Can anyone help me with a no starting opie in the unstable branch |
| 12:09.46 | George- | any errors? |
| 12:10.37 | Abciximab | no errors, i see only the login prompt at the console |
| 12:11.08 | nofpu | do you get any errors if you run /etc/init.d/opie start from the console? |
| 12:11.24 | George- | Abciximab: login to the console, and run the opie daemon |
| 12:11.25 | Abciximab | i will try, one moment |
| 12:11.29 | George- | (or whatever it is) |
| 12:12.39 | Abciximab | George-: ok (i only have console), i wrote: /etc/init.d/opie start, but opie did not start |
| 12:13.13 | George- | any errors? |
| 12:13.19 | Abciximab | when i try opie-login this follows: opie-login: error while loading shared libraries: /opt/QtPalmtop/lib/libopie.so.1: undefined symbol: width__11QTextStreami |
| 12:13.19 | George- | oh wait |
| 12:13.20 | George- | of course |
| 12:13.42 | George- | try: |
| 12:13.49 | George- | export OPIEDIR=/opt/QtPalmtop |
| 12:13.59 | Abciximab | i tried to remove libopie and libopie1, but did not help |
| 12:14.00 | George- | export QTDIR=/opt/QtPalmtop |
| 12:14.01 | George- | then |
| 12:14.03 | Abciximab | George-: ok |
| 12:14.08 | George- | /opt/QtPalmtop/bin/opie |
| 12:16.53 | Abciximab | Mmm, /opt/QtPalmtop/bin/opie: No such file or directory |
| 12:17.08 | George- | huh? |
| 12:17.08 | treke | sounds like you didnt install launcher |
| 12:17.13 | treke | ipkg install opie-taskbar |
| 12:17.39 | Abciximab | Package opie-taskbar (0.9.1-20030126.3) installed in root is up to date. |
| 12:17.54 | Abciximab | any ideas? |
| 12:17.55 | treke | that s old |
| 12:18.28 | Abciximab | i use this in my ipkg.conf: src unstable http://openzaurus.org/official/unstable/feed |
| 12:18.45 | Abciximab | only this entry |
| 12:19.16 | treke | or maybe the feed just hasnt been updated recently |
| 12:19.49 | Abciximab | what feed do you use? |
| 12:20.20 | George- | which is the MickeyL feed> |
| 12:20.22 | George- | ? |
| 12:20.24 | George- | ibot feed |
| 12:20.24 | | i guess feed is a package repository. See http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/IpkgFeeds, http://www.zauruszone.com/feed, http://openzaurus.org/official/{stable,testing,unstable}/feed, or http://www.zauruii.com/zfi |
| 12:20.47 | treke | Abciximab: I dont :) |
| 12:21.09 | nofpu | Abciximab: might be simplest just to reflash if that's practicle :) |
| 12:21.52 | Abciximab | nofpu: it is, what initrd.bin and zImage shall i use? |
| 12:22.19 | George- | Abciximab: try the opie.net.wox.org feed |
| 12:22.42 | George- | src opiecvs http://opie.net.wox.org/openzaurus/current |
| 12:22.50 | nofpu | I'm on 3.1rc2 |
| 12:24.08 | nofpu | my galeon has screwy gestures |
| 12:25.25 | Abciximab | ok, i am now trying this: http://opie.net.wox.org/openzaurus/current/Packages, now running: ipkg update !!! |
| 12:25.43 | George- | that feed is uptodate :) |
| 12:25.48 | George- | last updated feb 10th |
| 12:29.42 | *** join/#zaurus mark (~mark@s.westcott.freeuk.com) |
| 12:29.52 | mark | George-: have you bought repton yet? :P |
| 12:32.03 | ShiShi | what ipk is the same like nedit (editor for C and others languages) ? |
| 12:32.28 | George- | mark: no |
| 12:32.31 | George- | mark: I have no money left |
| 12:34.54 | mark | George-: heh |
| 12:34.59 | mark | me neither soon |
| 12:35.30 | George- | lol |
| 12:39.53 | Abciximab | George-: sorry, i am curious, what other feeds do you use? |
| 12:41.07 | George- | Abciximab: I don't ;) |
| 12:41.19 | George- | Abciximab: I hardly ever connect my Z to the internet |
| 12:45.29 | *** join/#zaurus effy (effy@Q108059.ppp.dion.ne.jp) |
| 12:58.08 | George- | bleh |
| 13:01.41 | vir182 | damn i forgot once agian how to make a soft-reset (on shutdown my shapr hang up) |
| 13:03.17 | George- | hrmm, |
| 13:03.38 | vir182 | 3-sxityeight? |
| 13:03.48 | George- | is it three-eight-six, three-eighty-six, three-hundred-and-eighty-six? |
| 13:03.54 | George- | lol |
| 13:04.03 | vir182 | hehe |
| 13:04.07 | George- | I've always pronounced it three-eight-six :) |
| 13:04.19 | vir182 | damn, german and english doesnt mix well ;-) |
| 13:04.36 | vir182 | i prnounced it three-eighty-six |
| 13:04.50 | vir182 | hmm, how do i make a soft reste on the Zaurus? |
| 13:05.12 | George- | uhm |
| 13:05.23 | George- | you hit the little slide switch on the back? |
| 13:05.51 | vir182 | and then? my box still shows wired characters and does nothing |
| 13:06.11 | *** join/#zaurus ljp (~ljp@tf0154.peakpeak.com) |
| 13:08.11 | vir182 | damn i even can't turn it off *sighs* |
| 13:08.25 | vir182 | dont tell me i lost my data again!! |
| 13:09.03 | George- | ??? |
| 13:09.16 | George- | You don't keep data on CF/SD? |
| 13:09.30 | George- | (or internal flash if ur using OZ) |
| 13:09.44 | vir182 | not the clandar and data from my addressbook. no clue how to put it in the CF |
| 13:10.07 | ||ugh | German and English don't mix well? What? They allmost _are_ the same langauge! :r) |
| 13:10.45 | treke | except german is meaner |
| 13:11.43 | vir182 | hehe well 386 is more like: drehundersechsundachzig. you pronounce the 6 before the 8 ;-) |
| 13:17.18 | *** join/#zaurus frankps (~frankps@10.80-202-169.nextgentel.com) |
| 13:19.42 | *** join/#zaurus genshu (~genshu@p508F70CB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:19.44 | genshu | hi |
| 13:21.53 | genshu | do you know something about emulators for the sharp zaurus? |
| 13:22.06 | George- | basilisk 2 runs Mac OS on it :) |
| 13:22.17 | genshu | hehe |
| 13:22.26 | genshu | Mac OSX ;) |
| 13:22.37 | George- | no, mac os classic :) |
| 13:22.45 | genshu | a SNES Emu would rock :) |
| 13:23.31 | George- | oh, we have one of those ;) |
| 13:23.52 | genshu | really? |
| 13:23.56 | George- | yeh |
| 13:24.01 | George- | it runs on X |
| 13:24.02 | George- | tho' |
| 13:24.06 | genshu | how does it work? |
| 13:24.18 | George- | ? |
| 13:24.29 | genshu | slow or good? |
| 13:24.44 | George- | no idea |
| 13:24.48 | genshu | the PocketPC2k Emus are bad |
| 13:25.00 | genshu | what das that mean? @"it runs on X" |
| 13:29.39 | *** join/#zaurus [George] (~Test@m459-mp1.cvx1-b.man.dial.ntli.net) |
| 13:29.51 | genshu | re goerge |
| 13:30.04 | [George] | ty |
| 13:32.23 | genshu | I'm planning to buy a C700, 5500G or 5600. Which do you prefer? |
| 13:33.06 | genshu | is the C700 good supported? |
| 13:33.23 | genshu | or a opensource platform available for it? |
| 13:33.44 | genshu | with 200DPI support |
| 13:34.15 | genshu | or is it a bad idea to buy a C700 outside Japan |
| 13:44.11 | mark | [George]: khtml is getting a lot better |
| 13:45.59 | [George] | mark: what's that got to do with anything? |
| 13:46.54 | [George] | genshu: I'd get a 5500 and a 128MB SD card |
| 13:48.03 | ShiShi | someone compress mp3 to ogg ? |
| 14:04.40 | vir182 | ShiShi bad idea. you will get crappy quality |
| 14:04.50 | vir182 | i would rather encode to ogg from the origialn CDs |
| 14:06.14 | ShiShi | ok , but , in order to use little space on my sd card i prefer ton compress it |
| 14:12.26 | ShiShi | i can't understand why !!i 've just install xmms on my oZ and when i want to open it nothing happen :( |
| 14:15.44 | [George] | ShiShi: try running it from the terminal |
| 14:16.52 | ShiShi | erfff |
| 14:17.20 | ShiShi | i have a seg fault and notice: please report the bug tatati tatata |
| 14:17.22 | ShiShi | :((( |
| 14:18.12 | [George] | oh well |
| 14:19.16 | *** join/#zaurus lsmith (~vandal@pD9E77933.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:19.47 | ShiShi | have an idea [George] ? |
| 14:33.53 | *** join/#zaurus lsmith (~vandal@pD9E77933.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:34.06 | [George] | ShiShi: nope |
| 14:36.02 | mark | [George]: you suck |
| 14:36.42 | [George] | mark: your the gay one.. |
| 14:36.55 | mark | [George]: s/your/you're |
| 14:37.43 | [George] | That's why I ducked :) |
| 14:42.22 | *** join/#zaurus Cloudchaser_ (~Cloudchas@ool-435684aa.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 15:09.08 | *** join/#zaurus angry (~angry@ool-4356628d.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 15:19.11 | vir182 | does anoyne of you use wwwoffle on the zaurus? |
| 15:22.47 | *** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@m216-mp1.cvx2-b.bre.dial.ntli.net) |
| 15:25.41 | *** join/#zaurus Momo (~root@leoric.net1.nerim.net) |
| 15:26.00 | Momo | cd / |
| 15:26.08 | Momo | oooops |
| 15:26.19 | *** part/#zaurus Momo (~root@leoric.net1.nerim.net) |
| 15:59.42 | *** join/#zaurus wyvern (~supergibs@dcn243-123.dcn.davis.ca.us) |
| 16:07.36 | *** join/#zaurus larry (~larry@1Cust115.tnt1.wheeling.wv.da.uu.net) |
| 16:09.06 | ShiShi | someone use xmms on his OZrc2 ? |
| 16:09.16 | *** join/#zaurus warmi (~www@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:09.18 | warmi | hi |
| 16:09.53 | ShiShi | someone use xmms on his OZrc2 ? |
| 16:12.11 | larry | is it possible to compile a program for the Z that I made with Qt 3.0.5? |
| 16:12.26 | warmi | no |
| 16:12.27 | treke | larry: no. port it to qt2.3 |
| 16:12.32 | warmi | you will have to back port it to 2.x |
| 16:12.43 | treke | not really all that tough |
| 16:13.29 | larry | is there a website with directions on how to do this? This is my first Qt app |
| 16:14.13 | treke | larry: for the most part, try compiling it against 2.3.2 and see what doesnt work. Then fix those things |
| 16:14.31 | vir182 | does anoyne of you use wwwoffle with opera to read pages offline? |
| 16:14.35 | treke | larry: there is some documentation on what has changed in doc.trolltech.com |
| 16:15.59 | warmi | just compile it with 2.3 and watch compiler messages :-) |
| 16:16.04 | *** join/#zaurus johnson (johnson@american.homegrown.net) |
| 16:16.04 | warmi | that should tell you what have changed |
| 16:16.05 | warmi | heeh |
| 16:16.10 | *** join/#zaurus SirPsycho-home (~sirpsycho@adsl-64-219-220-48.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 16:16.42 | treke | if you didnt use anything new in 3.0 it wont be too bad |
| 16:16.50 | treke | just a couple of classes changing names |
| 16:18.10 | larry | i can't even create the Makefile: tmake error: grades.pro:2: Syntax error |
| 16:20.26 | warmi | do you have 2.3 installed ? |
| 16:20.45 | larry | yes |
| 16:22.28 | warmi | well, I was busy with 2.3 for the last year so I am not sure what is going on in 3.x world :-) |
| 16:22.41 | warmi | as he said, you need to read trolls changes file or experiment |
| 16:23.02 | larry | thanks anyway |
| 16:28.21 | raceme | hi all, does anyone manage to format the sd card with jffs2 ? |
| 16:43.06 | *** join/#zaurus lsmith (~vandal@pD9E77933.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:56.06 | *** join/#zaurus chouimat (~dieu@modemcable120.184-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 16:56.39 | chouimat | hi |
| 16:56.48 | *** join/#zaurus tez (~tez@croy-gw1.homechoice.co.uk) |
| 16:56.59 | *** join/#zaurus tez (~tez@croy-gw1.homechoice.co.uk) |
| 17:05.14 | *** join/#zaurus SuKoShi (~chokiko@dyn-212-232-29-113.ppp.tiscali.fr) |
| 17:05.47 | SuKoShi | hi |
| 17:06.07 | mark | hi chouimat |
| 17:06.17 | George- | hi mark |
| 17:06.56 | SuKoShi | anybody tried the kernel for C700 available here ? |
| 17:06.56 | SuKoShi | http://www.royalcomp.hu/zaurus/ |
| 17:08.14 | *** join/#zaurus tez (~tez@croy-gw1.homechoice.co.uk) |
| 17:08.36 | *** join/#zaurus tez (~tez@croy-gw1.homechoice.co.uk) |
| 17:08.39 | mark | George-, chouimat, chouimat George- |
| 17:08.52 | *** join/#zaurus tez (~tez@croy-gw1.homechoice.co.uk) |
| 17:09.08 | *** join/#zaurus tez (~tez@croy-gw1.homechoice.co.uk) |
| 17:09.19 | *** join/#zaurus tez (~tez@croy-gw1.homechoice.co.uk) |
| 17:17.41 | *** join/#zaurus AKRAGE (AK_RAGE@user-0c93jcb.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 17:18.51 | AKRAGE | Hey Everyone! - Does anyone have a rip (or want to make one 4 me ;) of Opera and/or Jeode - i have OZ and i dont want have to swich back to sharp ROM |
| 17:19.14 | *** join/#zaurus genshu (~genshu@p508F795C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:19.16 | genshu | re |
| 17:19.45 | SuKoShi | re |
| 17:19.58 | Shdwdrgn | AKRAGE: if you find one, let me know! I've been trying to get opera back on my system because I haven't been happy with konq |
| 17:20.10 | AKRAGE | me either |
| 17:20.19 | AKRAGE | konq :( |
| 17:20.26 | genshu | does somebody have the log from today? I had conprobs and want to read now what people answered on my questions |
| 17:20.55 | AKRAGE | any one have a linux box here? |
| 17:21.12 | Shdwdrgn | genshu: from what time? |
| 17:21.16 | Shdwdrgn | er... how long ago? |
| 17:21.26 | genshu | dont know.. 2 or 3 hrs |
| 17:21.44 | SuKoShi | AKRAGE: gentoo one |
| 17:21.53 | AKRAGE | cuase there is a simple way to get Opera out of the Sharp ROM on a linux box - |
| 17:22.03 | AKRAGE | its in the OZ Faq |
| 17:22.12 | AKRAGE | unfortunetly i dont have one at the monent |
| 17:22.15 | AKRAGE | i used to dual boot |
| 17:22.23 | AKRAGE | but ran out if disk space |
| 17:22.30 | genshu | search the log for <genshu> and C700 :) |
| 17:22.33 | AKRAGE | and i cant find anyone with it |
| 17:22.45 | genshu | hm |
| 17:22.47 | *** join/#zaurus [George] (~Test@m108-mp1.cvx2-b.bre.dial.ntli.net) |
| 17:23.04 | genshu | george! |
| 17:23.07 | genshu | hi |
| 17:23.14 | genshu | you should have the log |
| 17:23.15 | [George] | hi...? |
| 17:23.17 | [George] | ;) |
| 17:23.34 | genshu | did you log our discussion about the sharps? |
| 17:23.35 | *** join/#zaurus Com[Plex] (ANGRYMAN@65.217.160.228) |
| 17:23.43 | George- | no? |
| 17:23.46 | genshu | hm |
| 17:23.56 | Shdwdrgn | genshu: I can copy/paste from my screen... coming to you in PM... |
| 17:24.16 | genshu | i asked something about the C700 and had several disconnects, so I didn't get the answers |
| 17:24.19 | genshu | k thx |
| 17:24.59 | Com[Plex] | ibot feed |
| 17:25.00 | | somebody said feed was a package repository. See http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/IpkgFeeds, http://www.zauruszone.com/feed, http://openzaurus.org/official/{stable,testing,unstable}/feed, or http://www.zauruii.com/zfi |
| 17:26.01 | SuKoShi | genshu: what was your questions? |
| 17:26.06 | AKRAGE | Any one wana - try to rip Opera - 4 me ?? plz ;) - there are simple docs on how to do it on both the Zaurus and ON A LINUX box |
| 17:26.30 | SuKoShi | i don't own a 5500 |
| 17:26.53 | SuKoShi | so i am not entitled to own / have rom with its proprietary stuff in it. |
| 17:27.01 | AKRAGE | woeks on 5000d |
| 17:27.06 | AKRAGE | thats what i have |
| 17:27.09 | SuKoShi | SL-B500 |
| 17:27.15 | AKRAGE | ahh :( |
| 17:27.19 | AKRAGE | get a 5000 |
| 17:27.22 | SuKoShi | really sorry |
| 17:27.24 | SuKoShi | LOL |
| 17:27.30 | AKRAGE | got mine for $150! |
| 17:27.38 | SuKoShi | mine for 500€ |
| 17:27.48 | treke | hehe, I've heard netfront is much nicer than opera :) |
| 17:27.50 | AKRAGE | E-bay :) |
| 17:28.15 | SuKoShi | i didn't try opera but netfront rocks |
| 17:28.25 | AKRAGE | netfront? where? |
| 17:28.27 | Shdwdrgn | AKRAGE: I tried to rip the opera image out of the latest rom update yestarday... what I got was an ipk which installs the main program, but does NOT create a desktop icon... and if you manually ran opera, you got a running app with no icons across the top, and thus no way to do anything within it |
| 17:28.37 | treke | AKRAGE: the browser on the b500/c700 |
| 17:29.10 | SuKoShi | once again : anyone tried Zimage from royalcomp.hu/zaurus? |
| 17:29.35 | AKRAGE | Shdwdrgn: cant u just copy the images |
| 17:30.08 | Shdwdrgn | AKRAGE: what do you mean? |
| 17:30.28 | AKRAGE | Shdwdrgn: well they have to be stored somewhere on sharp rom |
| 17:30.38 | AKRAGE | Shdwdrgn: probably not too hard to find |
| 17:31.24 | Shdwdrgn | I thought so too... I have a romburst image, and I found the opera program and it's directory of extras... but even just copying that stuff directly over gave the exact same problem |
| 17:31.49 | AKRAGE | Do u still have the filz? |
| 17:31.59 | AKRAGE | i did have a romburst image too |
| 17:32.04 | AKRAGE | but i cant get it to mount |
| 17:32.15 | AKRAGE | i tried this in an OS X comp |
| 17:32.27 | AKRAGE | that would be why i guess |
| 17:32.31 | George- | kergoth`bbl: ping |
| 17:33.38 | Shdwdrgn | yes, I still have them |
| 17:33.48 | AKRAGE | Shdwdrgn: did u use ipkRomRipper.sh? Could u send me the filz |
| 17:34.16 | Shdwdrgn | I also have the ipkg file that operacreator made for me... which judging by the script, is exactly the same files which I was copying over |
| 17:34.50 | AKRAGE | k - then can i have both the opera.ipkg and the directory from the rom if possible |
| 17:34.56 | George- | btw - have you seen that "Qoverclock" app? |
| 17:35.00 | George- | it works quite well |
| 17:35.17 | *** join/#zaurus Zxcvb (~msmustdie@ilchtn42.one-eleven.net) |
| 17:35.32 | Zxcvb | are there any known bugs in OZ 3.1 rc2 except some wireless issues? |
| 17:35.38 | Zxcvb | well, other than bugs that are in the sharp rom? |
| 17:35.44 | *** join/#zaurus ZhEN (zhen@wh0rd.tk) |
| 17:35.51 | George- | Zxcvb: I like your ident "msmustdie" :) |
| 17:36.52 | Com[Plex] | hey, uh, is there an identd service available for the z? |
| 17:36.59 | Shdwdrgn | what wireless issues? I've been using rc2 for the last couple days and haven't had any problems, except when I tried to use the card software to eject |
| 17:37.04 | SuKoShi | anyone knows if C700 kernel works on B500 ? |
| 17:37.16 | Zxcvb | Shdwdrgn: what is wrong with the eject? |
| 17:37.30 | Zxcvb | Shdwdrgn: and is there a fix? |
| 17:37.41 | Shdwdrgn | if you hit the eject option on card services, it locks up the whole Z |
| 17:37.57 | Shdwdrgn | no fix... just ignore the eject option and pull out the cards |
| 17:39.07 | Zxcvb | is updating ipkg enough to let the sharp rom install packages from OZ feeds? |
| 17:40.19 | AKRAGE | anyone using the Zaurus under windows - do u have USB driver problems? or is that just me? |
| 17:41.16 | SuKoShi | Sharp provides a driver? |
| 17:41.23 | AKRAGE | yea |
| 17:41.32 | SuKoShi | tcp/ip ? |
| 17:43.00 | Shdwdrgn | AKRAGE: I'm running win2000 on my desktop |
| 17:43.04 | SuKoShi | or serial |
| 17:43.37 | *** join/#zaurus hardwire (~hardwire@12-252-5-124.client.attbi.com) |
| 17:43.39 | Shdwdrgn | I had some issues when first setting it up... it appears that you have to turn on the Z BEFORE putting it in the cradle... otherwise the usb connection doesn;t initialize |
| 17:43.57 | *** join/#zaurus TrekCycling (~prestonc@12-224-247-37.client.attbi.com) |
| 17:44.11 | TrekCycling | is anyone around that has the Pocketop or MicroInnovations keyboard? |
| 17:44.23 | Shdwdrgn | also having the same issue with CF cards... have to have the unit turned on before inserting cards or they don't get recognized |
| 17:44.33 | George- | WOW |
| 17:44.44 | George- | AndyQ's new SFCave-SDL really really rocks |
| 17:44.47 | George- | It's SOOO cool |
| 17:45.34 | treke | someone take some fricken screenshots |
| 17:45.54 | George- | y? |
| 17:46.30 | SHEENmaster | George-: is it in the unstable feed yet? |
| 17:46.40 | Shdwdrgn | how do you get screenshots from the Z? |
| 17:46.45 | George- | SHEENmaster: no idea |
| 17:46.46 | SHEENmaster | (OZ feeds need cool names like the Debian ones) |
| 17:46.48 | George- | SHEENmaster: it's on ZSI tho |
| 17:47.29 | SHEENmaster | maybe I should start a feed for ZSI software |
| 17:48.19 | George- | treke: how do I take a screenshot of a fullscreen app? |
| 17:49.03 | SHEENmaster | George-: SDL probaby does direct framebuffer access,the program might have to take the shot |
| 17:50.14 | George- | hrmm, or ssh in and do a cat /dev/fb0 > /mnt/cf/screenie |
| 17:50.28 | George- | and then do a bit of trickery to change it to png |
| 17:50.29 | effy | does anyone know why you would want to "bit flip" data before sending it out of a port? |
| 17:50.48 | treke | effy: You mean something like htonl? |
| 17:50.55 | effy | not sure hehe |
| 17:51.13 | effy | I'm reading some documentation, and it is talking about some control bit to flip output data bits |
| 17:52.38 | George- | hrmm |
| 17:52.49 | George- | I have three linux boxen connected to the internet via a single 56k line |
| 17:52.56 | George- | this box, my tibook and the z |
| 17:52.57 | George- | argh |
| 17:53.53 | mark | George-: oh, poor poor you |
| 17:54.10 | George- | mark: blah |
| 17:54.20 | George- | you are so fucking cynical |
| 17:54.21 | mark | poor deprived Ge |
| 17:54.23 | mark | George-: |
| 17:54.40 | larry | I've got 9 boxes on one 56k |
| 17:54.50 | George- | ur the one that's always rubbing it in that I'm still on 56k and that ur on ADSL :) |
| 17:54.56 | larry | i can't get anything faster where i live |
| 17:54.57 | George- | larry: psychopath :) |
| 17:55.16 | George- | SHEENmaster: die |
| 17:55.20 | SuKoShi | larry: you P2P addict ;) |
| 17:56.07 | SHEENmaster | larry: you can get 115kb/s modems if you look hard enough |
| 17:56.08 | SuKoShi | larry: you can't even have isdn ? |
| 17:56.18 | SHEENmaster | larry: pay a friend to leave a server on his cable line |
| 17:56.40 | larry | tried isdn... at that point we owned the only isdn line within 100 miles |
| 17:56.51 | SuKoShi | ! |
| 17:57.05 | *** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-435182be.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 17:57.05 | mark | larry: you live where? |
| 17:57.17 | larry | glen easton, wv, us |
| 17:57.25 | larry | pop 3 |
| 17:58.21 | George- | larry: within 100 miles? lmao |
| 17:58.28 | George- | larry: do you live in a desert or something? ;) |
| 17:59.14 | larry | the mountains of West Virginia |
| 17:59.42 | larry | 100 miles was probably an exaggeration |
| 17:59.56 | larry | but it was impossible to use it as an isdn |
| 18:03.06 | Com[Plex] | does anyone know if there is an identd server app available for the z? |
| 18:16.55 | *** part/#zaurus larry (~larry@1Cust115.tnt1.wheeling.wv.da.uu.net) |
| 18:18.06 | *** join/#zaurus lsmith (~vandal@pD9E77933.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:31.54 | SuKoShi | hi kergoth |
| 18:32.01 | kergoth | hey |
| 18:32.17 | SuKoShi | i have a question |
| 18:32.22 | kergoth | i may have an answer |
| 18:32.35 | SuKoShi | you hear about the c700 kernel from an hungarian website |
| 18:32.42 | kergoth | nope |
| 18:32.47 | kergoth | what is it? |
| 18:32.58 | SuKoShi | please wait |
| 18:32.59 | kergoth | k |
| 18:33.10 | SuKoShi | http://www.royalcomp.hu/zaurus/ |
| 18:33.21 | SuKoShi | here you can find a replacement kernel for C700 |
| 18:33.30 | SuKoShi | externe.net's webmaster tried it |
| 18:33.38 | *** join/#zaurus kurre (~kurre@ncircle.nullnet.fi) |
| 18:33.40 | SuKoShi | and he said that it works smoothly |
| 18:33.42 | kergoth | and, whats it do? |
| 18:33.53 | SuKoShi | i don't know |
| 18:33.59 | SuKoShi | look at the config ;) |
| 18:34.07 | kergoth | I'll bookmark it and diff it against the stock sources |
| 18:34.10 | SuKoShi | he said that caching have been enabled |
| 18:34.12 | kergoth | whenever i find the time |
| 18:35.11 | kergoth | odd, its only a config file, so he didnt change sources, just config |
| 18:35.17 | kergoth | innttterresting |
| 18:35.35 | SuKoShi | yes you just have to diff the stock config |
| 18:35.47 | SuKoShi | when i downloaded the sources |
| 18:35.59 | SuKoShi | i've read stuff about caching disabled due to pxa bug |
| 18:36.11 | kergoth | ohhh, he disables the workaround for the errata? |
| 18:36.12 | kergoth | eek |
| 18:36.18 | SuKoShi | (or maybe i've read it elsewhere) |
| 18:36.51 | SuKoShi | http://more.sbc.co.jp/sl_j/source/b500/20030124/linux-c700-b500-20021214-rom1_00.tar.bz2 |
| 18:36.56 | SuKoShi | fuck sorry |
| 18:36.59 | kergoth | hehe |
| 18:37.03 | SuKoShi | CONFIG_XSCALE_CACHE_ERRATA is not set |
| 18:37.18 | SuKoShi | that's it... ? |
| 18:37.23 | kergoth | yep |
| 18:37.30 | kergoth | afaik |
| 18:37.31 | SuKoShi | can you tell me more? |
| 18:37.39 | kergoth | read the errata on intel's site |
| 18:37.43 | kergoth | it documents all the bugs |
| 18:37.47 | kergoth | in the pxa chips |
| 18:38.12 | SuKoShi | on the same time i receive the reply from the website's author |
| 18:38.13 | _Psycho | hey you guys know any other place than dynamisc and conisc to buy a c700 ? |
| 18:38.30 | SuKoShi | Hi, |
| 18:38.30 | SuKoShi | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:38.30 | SuKoShi | This kernel is for Sharp Corgi hardware with Intel Xscale PXA250 (rev4) processor. If you see that in your /proc/cpuinfo, then this kernel will work for your device (I think - I hope ;-) I never see the B500 device, so I don't have more info, I'm sorry. |
| 18:38.30 | SuKoShi | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:38.31 | SuKoShi | bye |
| 18:38.33 | SuKoShi | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:38.35 | SuKoShi | Bela Fenyvessy / Royalcomp |
| 18:38.37 | SuKoShi | Tel: +36 (20)9 343-343 |
| 18:38.39 | SuKoShi | Fax: +36 (1) 341-1847 |
| 18:39.00 | kergoth | SuKoShi: ah, rev4 |
| 18:39.12 | kergoth | SuKoShi: what rev is the b500 you have? |
| 18:39.43 | SuKoShi | wait a sec |
| 18:39.53 | *** join/#zaurus qnr (~terry@67.118.50.166) |
| 18:40.01 | kergoth | k |
| 18:40.12 | George- | I just borked OZ |
| 18:40.13 | George- | wahoo |
| 18:40.16 | kergoth | ? |
| 18:40.22 | kergoth | ~lart George- for rm -rf /lib |
| 18:40.31 | George- | kergoth: ipkg update, and screwed up the libc install ;) |
| 18:40.40 | kergoth | update doesnt do anything, upgrade does :) |
| 18:40.43 | *** part/#zaurus qnr (~terry@67.118.50.166) |
| 18:40.49 | George- | that's it ;) |
| 18:40.52 | kergoth | gotcha |
| 18:41.08 | George- | kergoth: I'm sending that piece of shit known as my powerbook g4 back to apple |
| 18:41.19 | kergoth | heh, what now? |
| 18:41.21 | SuKoShi | kergoth: Intel XScale-PXA250 rev4 (v5l) |
| 18:41.24 | George- | kergoth: they're gonna either replace it, repair everything, or refund me, I've had enough :) |
| 18:41.31 | George- | kergoth: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/eric.rsoc |
| 18:44.46 | Com[Plex] | sup kergoth |
| 18:45.52 | kergoth | hey Com[Plex] |
| 18:46.45 | George- | kergoth: finished reflashing ;) |
| 18:48.40 | *** join/#zaurus frankps (~frankps@10.80-202-169.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:54.02 | George- | kergoth: ping |
| 18:54.16 | kergoth | George-: pong |
| 18:54.20 | George- | kergoth: what do you think? |
| 18:54.30 | kergoth | havent looked at it, busy |
| 18:54.39 | George- | kergoth: ahh, ok |
| 18:54.56 | George- | btw - how goes 2.4.19? |
| 18:55.02 | kergoth | it doesnt go. |
| 18:55.04 | kergoth | read the news page. |
| 18:55.29 | George- | ahh ok |
| 19:05.38 | Vhalros | Hmm... what is libopie11? and where does one find it? I don't see it in the OZ feeds.. or um... any where else for that matter... |
| 19:06.29 | George- | Vhalros: I think it's a typo of libopie1 |
| 19:06.45 | George- | Vhalros: ipkg install libopie1 then force depends the package asking for libopie11 |
| 19:07.00 | George- | (I presume ur updating Opie from the opie.net.wox.org feeds, and opie-base is bitching?) |
| 19:07.46 | Vhalros | Actually, just trying install task-apps from unstable. |
| 19:07.46 | George- | wow |
| 19:07.53 | George- | the trolltech homepage has been revamped |
| 19:08.03 | kergoth | hm, need to update our unstable feed then, that bug has been fixed for some time in cvs |
| 19:08.18 | Vhalros | ERm, I'm sorry, testing. |
| 19:08.20 | Vhalros | Not unstable. |
| 19:08.22 | Vhalros | :) |
| 19:08.34 | George- | kergoth: is that a typo then? |
| 19:08.42 | Vhalros | Last time I tried installling libopie1 though it totally wigged out and I had to reflash :( |
| 19:08.53 | Vhalros | I thought perhaps that was not the thing to install... |
| 19:09.00 | kergoth | George-: yes, its a typo |
| 19:09.10 | George- | kergoth: ahh, good |
| 19:09.16 | kergoth | Vhalros: if you install _anything_ from unstable when you're on testing or stable, upgrade _everything_ |
| 19:09.22 | kergoth | Vhalros: or you could easily make your Z unusable |
| 19:09.27 | George- | kergoth: Cuz I just got that problem as well, when I ipkg install opie-update ;) |
| 19:09.45 | kergoth | opie has some very intricate interdependencies that are not reflected in ipkg depends due to its dynamic nature |
| 19:09.52 | Vhalros | kergoth: Hmm... Is there an easy way to tell it to upgrade everything? |
| 19:09.59 | George- | ipkg upgrade ;) |
| 19:11.18 | Vhalros | Hmm... I suppose I'd have to get the zaurus hooked up to the net for that :)? |
| 19:12.37 | George- | bah, I hate 56k |
| 19:13.31 | George- | hrmm, I like trolltech's motto "Build more. Code less. Compile everywhere" |
| 19:13.34 | George- | erm |
| 19:13.43 | George- | "Code less. Build More. Compile Anywhere" |
| 19:14.04 | treke|uhoh | I prefer code less, build less, hope it compiles somewhere |
| 19:14.21 | George- | lmao |
| 19:19.52 | SuKoShi | http://zaurus-ja.sourceforge.jp/images/sl-c700/mainboard_topview_stripped.jpg |
| 19:20.42 | SuKoShi | ATI chipset in the C700, i didn't know. |
| 19:21.38 | kergoth | i knew, but only cause i read the code |
| 19:21.39 | kergoth | :) |
| 19:21.44 | kergoth | cool, i didnt know someone took it apart |
| 19:21.56 | SuKoShi | http://digit.que.ne.jp/visit/?Linux%A5%B6%A5%A6%A5%EB%A5%B9%B3%AB%C8%AF%A5%E1%A5%E2%2F%A5%CF%A1%BC%A5%C9%A5%A6%A5%A7%A5%A2#i24 |
| 19:22.02 | SuKoShi | 4 pics |
| 19:22.05 | *** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@m190-mp1.cvx3-a.bre.dial.ntli.net) |
| 19:22.24 | treke|uhoh | how much you want to bet its completly unsupported? |
| 19:22.42 | SuKoShi | pxa250b2c400 |
| 19:24.03 | kergoth | SuKoShi: cool page |
| 19:24.05 | kergoth | treke|uhoh: what is? |
| 19:26.29 | treke|uhoh | the ati accelerator. if that is what it is |
| 19:27.01 | _Psycho | gonna have to put that in the altavista translator :) |
| 19:27.14 | kergoth | of course. babelfish rocks. |
| 19:27.25 | George- | treke|uhoh: the ATI Imageon? |
| 19:27.41 | SuKoShi | yes |
| 19:27.57 | George- | kergoth: very useful for doing french homework ;) |
| 19:28.08 | treke|uhoh | George-: maybe if you want to fail it is |
| 19:28.14 | George- | treke|uhoh: I didn't care |
| 19:28.21 | SuKoShi | what is french homework? |
| 19:28.24 | George- | treke|uhoh: better than handing in nothing |
| 19:28.32 | treke|uhoh | George-: besides, don yu live in france |
| 19:28.43 | George- | treke|uhoh: ?!?!?!?!?! |
| 19:28.50 | SuKoShi | i'm french :p |
| 19:29.06 | treke|uhoh | SuKoShi: I'm so sorry |
| 19:29.13 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:29.13 | SuKoShi | ;) |
| 19:30.34 | George- | treke|uhoh: you're such a nice person |
| 19:30.35 | George- | lol |
| 19:30.43 | treke|uhoh | George-: yes I am |
| 19:30.49 | kergoth | SuKoShi: fyi, the only thing enabling "japanese" in the b500/c700 kernel language selection does is changes the product name in usbd from 5600 to b500, and changes whether to display the japanese "please wait" or not |
| 19:31.04 | _Psycho | i speak french too :) hehe |
| 19:31.09 | George- | lmao |
| 19:31.50 | kergoth | oh interesting, I foudn another instance where it does matter |
| 19:31.52 | George- | _Psycho: and you're proud of it? |
| 19:31.57 | _Psycho | of course |
| 19:32.01 | kergoth | guess there is a slight difference between the b500 and 5600 |
| 19:32.03 | George- | *gasp* |
| 19:32.10 | George- | kergoth: what? |
| 19:32.13 | SuKoShi | kergoth: i prefer japanese then (i connect to windows xp usbnet driver) |
| 19:32.15 | George- | kergoth: keyboard layout? |
| 19:32.31 | kergoth | SuKoShi: product string wont affect the ability to connect to windows |
| 19:32.36 | kergoth | SuKoShi: product id and vendor id will |
| 19:33.00 | SuKoShi | ok! |
| 19:33.06 | SuKoShi | here is another link |
| 19:33.07 | SuKoShi | http://digit.que.ne.jp/visit/index.cgi?Linux%A5%B6%A5%A6%A5%EB%A5%B9%B3%AB%C8%AF%A5%E1%A5%E2%2F%A5%CF%A1%BC%A5%C9%A5%A6%A5%A7%A5%A2%2F%C5%C5%B8%BB%A5%A2%A5%C0%A5%D7%A5%BF |
| 19:33.14 | kergoth | wtf |
| 19:33.14 | treke|uhoh | kergoth: what is different? |
| 19:33.17 | kergoth | ~lart lineo |
| 19:33.23 | SuKoShi | put a B500 battery without C700 mod |
| 19:34.45 | George- | Outlook Express? ugh |
| 19:34.46 | SuKoShi | i don't think sharp uses ATI's Imageon 100 hardware acceleration, no? |
| 19:35.01 | kergoth | dont know |
| 19:35.07 | George- | don't think so |
| 19:35.10 | kergoth | I'll read up on the imageon and check the code when i have a chance |
| 19:35.15 | George- | I want them to |
| 19:35.15 | George- | lol |
| 19:38.04 | *** join/#zaurus Wintre (mike@pavonis.waspfactory.org) |
| 19:44.37 | *** join/#zaurus lsmith (~vandal@p213.54.36.30.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 20:00.12 | *** join/#zaurus sheenmaster (~sheenmast@Morristown-68-118-103-87.chartertn.net) |
| 20:06.08 | *** join/#zaurus Leaves (~Leif@d141-178-151.home.cgocable.net) |
| 20:09.20 | *** join/#zaurus chouimat (~dieu@modemcable120.184-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 20:12.13 | SuKoShi | link that is worth a babelfish translation stating that new romset has a better energy management |
| 20:12.15 | SuKoShi | http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-SantaClara/1685/battery/battery.html |
| 20:15.07 | George- | the translation is shoddy |
| 20:16.12 | sheenmaster | George-: oriental languages are hard as hell to translate |
| 20:16.32 | sheenmaster | George-: most European ones have common ancestry to draw from |
| 20:16.44 | sheenmaster | George-: they don't share that with oriental ones |
| 20:17.21 | sheenmaster | George-: that, and babelfish likes "perfect 4th grade grammar" when translating |
| 20:17.23 | George- | sheenmaster: I know :) |
| 20:19.27 | mspencer | I'm a second semester Japanese student -- sheen, you can say that again. ^__^ |
| 20:19.47 | Neo|Laptop | yes |
| 20:19.49 | Neo|Laptop | oops |
| 20:19.52 | SuKoShi | ah hontouni |
| 20:20.03 | SuKoShi | nihongo no benkyouha tottemo muzukashi :p |
| 20:20.33 | George- | STOP SPEAKING JAPANESE! |
| 20:20.38 | George- | blah |
| 20:20.39 | George- | lol |
| 20:20.40 | SuKoShi | ‚É‚Ù‚ñ‚² |
| 20:20.41 | mspencer | ‚¢‚¢‚¦A‚¿‚å‚Á‚Æ‚Þ‚¸‚©‚µ‚¢‚ñ‚Å‚·B |
| 20:20.50 | mspencer | ah, sorry |
| 20:21.04 | SuKoShi | my irc client can't display japanese |
| 20:21.06 | SuKoShi | ;) |
| 20:21.12 | mspencer | oh, well never mind then :) |
| 20:21.19 | SuKoShi | daijobu |
| 20:21.32 | mspencer | SuKoShi said "ah, really?" and then he said "Studying Japanese is really difficult." |
| 20:21.37 | George- | strange |
| 20:21.40 | George- | in the battery applet |
| 20:21.45 | George- | it says "charging both devices" |
| 20:21.46 | George- | hrmm |
| 20:21.46 | mspencer | The strange characters were him saying "ni ho n go" which is the Japanese word for Japanese... |
| 20:21.49 | George- | WTF ?!?!??! |
| 20:21.58 | mspencer | Then I said "no, it's a little difficult"... |
| 20:22.06 | sheenmaster | I think "soudern speakin" (southern american english, yokel dialect) is a lot more obscure than japanese. |
| 20:22.32 | mspencer | then he said "daijobu" which is just "it's OK", more or less. |
| 20:22.32 | SuKoShi | some french dialects here too |
| 20:23.27 | SuKoShi | mspencer: the worst thing is kansaiben |
| 20:23.30 | mspencer | SuKoShi: What you said might have been beyond my studies, but one way we've learned to use the gerund/infinitive form of a verb...like you would need to if you were going to call "studying japanese" the subject of a sentence... |
| 20:23.58 | mspencer | hmm, wait, benkyou isn't a verb. I'm an idiot. Disregard. :) |
| 20:24.09 | SuKoShi | hey, i'm an autodidact |
| 20:24.21 | SuKoShi | just learned while listening to my wife chatting on the phone |
| 20:24.32 | mspencer | "Japanese studies are very difficult" -- looking at it again, it's a perfectly valid sentence :) |
| 20:24.33 | sheenmaster | THIS IS AN AMERICAN SERVER. SPEAK ENGLISH OR GO AWAY. |
| 20:24.38 | mspencer | OK, sorry :) |
| 20:24.43 | mspencer | But the C700 is Japanese! ^__^ |
| 20:24.50 | SuKoShi | (typical american reaction?) |
| 20:24.56 | sheenmaster | SuKoShi: yes |
| 20:25.01 | mspencer | Hey, I'm an American too. Not typical at all :) |
| 20:25.31 | mspencer | I think he was joking :) |
| 20:25.45 | SuKoShi | i think too |
| 20:25.54 | SuKoShi | don't forget that i'm boycotted theses days |
| 20:25.58 | SuKoShi | (i'm french) |
| 20:26.07 | sheenmaster | mspencer: SuKoShi: I have to get 5 damn credits of English to graduate HS. I think other people could at least respect my feelings that I HATE LANGUAGE STUDIES and will not take ONE MORE DAY OF ANY LANGUAGE than I need to. |
| 20:26.32 | SuKoShi | LOL |
| 20:26.39 | mspencer | English as a Second Language? |
| 20:26.40 | SuKoShi | puis je parler en français dans ce cas? |
| 20:27.15 | mspencer | Wait, your English is too good for that...never mind... |
| 20:27.17 | sheenmaster | SuKoShi: Je detest la class de la francaise. Je detest la class de la Anglaise. |
| 20:27.27 | sheenmaster | English is my first language. |
| 20:27.36 | mspencer | All this foreign language stuff has done bad things to my head. I'll just go over here and stand. :) |
| 20:27.42 | SuKoShi | i hate you :p |
| 20:27.48 | sheenmaster | I'm on my 9th year of french, and I still can't use use it worth shit. |
| 20:27.51 | *** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@m190-mp1.cvx3-a.bre.dial.ntli.net) |
| 20:27.52 | vir182 | does anyone of you use plucker to get webpages? |
| 20:28.25 | SuKoShi | sheenmaster: let's speak english then. |
| 20:28.41 | sheenmaster | SuKoShi: ok, here goes: |
| 20:28.57 | mspencer | So to only half-way yield the conversation topic back: Do you guys think KanjiNirvana will work OK on the Dynamism C700 I've got coming in two to three weeks? :) |
| 20:28.58 | sheenmaster | I dun be chillin whit me homefryskilletdogs. |
| 20:29.14 | sheenmaster | SuKoShi: lets stick to real English then? |
| 20:29.20 | sheenmaster | :-) |
| 20:29.24 | *** join/#zaurus Zxcvb (~msmustdie@ilchtn85.one-eleven.net) |
| 20:29.29 | SuKoShi | LOL |
| 20:29.33 | Zxcvb | I got nat working with my z, but DNS lookups fail |
| 20:29.47 | mspencer | I don't think we mean to ignore you, vir182 -- I haven't played with any of those offline tools yet, so I don't know what to tell you. |
| 20:29.50 | SuKoShi | mspencer: i didn't try kanjinirvana yet |
| 20:29.52 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: have you configured dns? |
| 20:29.58 | vir182 | Zxcvb did you put the DNS hosts in /etc/resolv.vonf? |
| 20:29.58 | Zxcvb | sheenmaster: yes |
| 20:30.13 | vir182 | err: /etc/resolv.conf |
| 20:30.20 | Zxcvb | sheenmaster: I configured both in the network and sync settings, and manually via /etc/resolv.conf |
| 20:30.21 | mspencer | I had tried to get some kind of offline grabber working back on my Agenda VR3, but it didn't work well, so I gave up. When I get my first Zaurus I'll have to give it a try :) |
| 20:30.24 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: are you running your own dns server rather than routing dns requests? |
| 20:30.54 | *** join/#zaurus blood` (~brent@statecollegecable-64-178-105-187.ceinetworks.com) |
| 20:30.56 | sheenmaster | mspencer: the zaurus is so much cooler |
| 20:31.11 | sheenmaster | mspencer: a 256mb sd card and a wifi cf card make it feel like a real box! |
| 20:31.14 | vir182 | well, i can't figure out what the cach otpion is good for in the plucker. i mean how to i get a file from the cache --- that#s my problem |
| 20:31.20 | Zxcvb | ah, forgot to reboot |
| 20:31.39 | *** join/#zaurus djk (~djk@ool-435182be.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 20:31.39 | vir182 | Zxcvb you dont need to reboot |
| 20:32.12 | vir182 | Zxcvb just restart network |
| 20:34.25 | mspencer | Yeah, that's what I've heard. I can't wait. :) BTW, I've seen a range of prices for 256 MB SD cards -- I know to avoid the Sandisk cards, but will any other 'generic' cards work just as well? Or should I go for certain known-good brands? |
| 20:35.59 | Zxcvb | where does opie-irc store it's config info? |
| 20:36.08 | mspencer | But I can't wait to show KanjiNirvana on a C700 to the exchange students or to Takei-sensei or Odell-sensei... |
| 20:36.09 | vir182 | i have a 512MB CF. works well for me. no clue why ppl want have those expensive SD |
| 20:36.34 | kergoth | vir182: they want them so they can use wifi in the CF and not have to yank your primary storage medium |
| 20:36.39 | mspencer | I know...I don't want to use an SD card either, but I don't know any other way to put a wifi card and a storage card in the unit at the same time. |
| 20:37.18 | kergoth | personally, I say go with a 64 or 128mb sd for installing apps, and then a big ass CF card for multimedia files, which you probably dont need while using wifi |
| 20:37.19 | vir182 | kergoth wifi? |
| 20:37.27 | kergoth | vir182: 802.11 |
| 20:37.31 | vir182 | ahh |
| 20:38.18 | vir182 | so does anoyne of you use plucker? |
| 20:38.29 | mspencer | I'm pondering a 256 MB SD card, and would like to keep it under a hundred bucks... |
| 20:39.01 | kergoth | mspencer: i hear good things about lexar. but basically going with anything but sandisk you should be fine |
| 20:39.06 | kergoth | mspencer: from what i hear anyway |
| 20:39.17 | mspencer | Cool -- that's good advice. I appreciate it. :) |
| 20:39.19 | *** join/#zaurus TheMasterMind1 (foobar@h-68-164-249-135.MCLNVA23.covad.net) |
| 20:39.44 | vir182 | i have a lexar. works pertty well for me |
| 20:40.18 | mspencer | I know you guys are going to crucify me for this, but I still want to use Bochs and a Windows 3.1 or Windows 95/98 disk image. It'll be unusably slow, but still extremely cool just to see it run. :) |
| 20:40.57 | SuKoShi | lol |
| 20:41.03 | SuKoShi | ~lart mspencer |
| 20:41.07 | *** join/#zaurus carsten (~carsten@pD9E56A33.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:41.39 | SuKoShi | ;) |
| 20:44.03 | Zxcvb | mspencer: don't use 95 |
| 20:44.11 | Zxcvb | mspencer: use win 3.1 or even 3.0 |
| 20:44.16 | Zxcvb | mspencer: or heck, even GEOS |
| 20:44.27 | mspencer | Seriously, I'd like to try to run Maple on Bochs. |
| 20:44.48 | mspencer | It'll be very slow, but still possibly of speed comparable to a TI-92...if I'm lucky... |
| 20:45.02 | mspencer | The video emulation is very slow, right? |
| 20:48.17 | *** join/#zaurus mark (~mark@s.westcott.freeuk.com) |
| 20:52.31 | Zxcvb | I would like to see wine, or at least winelib, on the Z |
| 20:52.32 | *** join/#zaurus oGMo (~rpav@216.190.2.56) |
| 20:52.43 | Zxcvb | with qpe/opie output, not X11 |
| 20:52.56 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: no hope |
| 20:53.04 | mspencer | Yeah, the instructions are still x86... |
| 20:53.04 | Zxcvb | sheenmaster: why not? |
| 20:53.07 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: that's even further off than wine on my iBook |
| 20:53.10 | Zxcvb | not for winelib |
| 20:53.13 | mspencer | I thought about that too, so I don't blame you :) |
| 20:53.19 | Zxcvb | and that is allready on PPC |
| 20:53.27 | mspencer | But an executable program ...oh really? Whoa, cool :) |
| 20:53.30 | Zxcvb | besides, there are win32 ARM binaries |
| 20:53.35 | vir182 | how do you guys snch your zaurus with your PC? |
| 20:53.44 | carsten | vir182: KitchenSync |
| 20:53.45 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: oh, Wine Is Not Emulator instead of WINshit Emulator |
| 20:53.46 | mspencer | So it'll do x86-to-native instruction conversion and then handle the win32 calls? :) |
| 20:53.54 | Zxcvb | ever hear of windows ce or pocket pc |
| 20:54.01 | Zxcvb | mspencer: winelib lets you recompile windows apps |
| 20:54.16 | Zxcvb | mspencer: no instruction set conversion needed |
| 20:54.18 | mspencer | Wow -- maybe that would work for getting Maple win32 working on the Z... |
| 20:54.19 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: they use a different lib |
| 20:54.26 | Zxcvb | mspencer: do you have maple source code? |
| 20:54.27 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: different API and all that shit |
| 20:54.34 | mspencer | no...oh, now I get it... |
| 20:54.43 | Zxcvb | mspencer: winelib is a porting layer |
| 20:54.44 | mspencer | you weren't talking about ...OK... |
| 20:54.51 | Zxcvb | mspencer: that would be possible on the Z |
| 20:55.28 | Zxcvb | mspencer: of course, it won't work if any ASM is used |
| 20:55.54 | mspencer | Anyway...here's another thought... |
| 20:55.56 | Zxcvb | mspencer: unless that is rewritten |
| 20:56.17 | mspencer | user-mode-linux? Do you think that's possible with the existing Sharp-supplied kernel? |
| 20:56.20 | Zxcvb | mspencer: but there are plenty of Free windows programs that could be ported with it |
| 20:56.26 | mspencer | ah, true... |
| 20:56.32 | Zxcvb | mspencer: nester for one |
| 20:57.03 | vir182 | carsten where can i get a package for KitchenSync? |
| 20:57.04 | mspencer | Hmm, that could be interesting then :) |
| 20:57.34 | mspencer | how about MAME for the Z? Does it seem to run OK? |
| 20:58.06 | carsten | http://www.handhelds.org/~zecke/kitchensync.html <-- vir182 |
| 20:58.17 | carsten | vir182: I updated that page 3 hours ago, lucky one |
| 20:58.17 | Zxcvb | it will be slow with anything more than the most basic game |
| 20:58.27 | Zxcvb | I would like to see updates to fce ultra and gameboyz |
| 20:58.33 | vir182 | carsten thx |
| 20:58.37 | Zxcvb | neither have been updated since their release |
| 20:58.47 | mspencer | Well, sometimes slow motion (20 to 40%) helps you play a game even better than you could normally. But 5% speed doesn't do any good... |
| 20:59.03 | mspencer | How much of a slowdown do you get? |
| 20:59.14 | Zxcvb | mspencer: I would settle for an updated gameboyz and fce ultra |
| 20:59.31 | mspencer | Yeah, that would be interesting :) |
| 20:59.57 | vir182 | outch, looks like i have to compile the package ;-) and i don't have OPIE installed |
| 21:00.21 | mspencer | So I wouldn't dream of trying to play Mortal Kombat with it, but I imagine some vector games will be OK, things prior to about 1985 should be OK...right? |
| 21:00.38 | Zxcvb | mspencer: if you want those, fix up stella |
| 21:00.40 | carsten | vir182: don't need opie |
| 21:00.45 | carsten | the sharprom is ok |
| 21:01.24 | vir182 | carsten ok. wow you also made zsafe? |
| 21:01.27 | mspencer | That's not answering my question, Zxcvb...I appreciate your input, but I'm asking how the existing MAME ports work in practice...not for alternative programs just yet... |
| 21:02.26 | Zxcvb | mspencer: probably halfway decent for old stuff |
| 21:02.35 | carsten | vir182: I did what? |
| 21:02.40 | mspencer | that's cool :) |
| 21:03.15 | vir182 | carsten hehe, thought you were Casrten Schneider (who made ZSafe) |
| 21:03.21 | carsten | no, Carsten Niehaus |
| 21:03.23 | vir182 | er Carsten Schneider |
| 21:04.52 | *** part/#zaurus mark (~mark@s.westcott.freeuk.com) |
| 21:05.23 | George- | yo carsten |
| 21:05.31 | George- | <mark> what? windows rocks |
| 21:05.36 | George- | omg |
| 21:05.38 | George- | omfg |
| 21:06.04 | sheenmaster | ~lart mark |
| 21:06.18 | George- | sheenmaster: mark's not here |
| 21:06.22 | George- | sheenmaster: he said that in query ;) |
| 21:06.35 | sheenmaster | isn't 40x24 the dos text-mode resolution? |
| 21:06.57 | George- | no idea |
| 21:09.12 | sheenmaster | George-: I was 12 at the time, and it isn't "script kiddie" behavior if you are just looking for a single surviving bbs. |
| 21:09.27 | sheenmaster | George-: MIT had a few that they apparently forgot about. |
| 21:10.47 | sheenmaster | I wonder if I could put Minix on it. |
| 21:11.22 | Zxcvb | now what do do with my old 486/100 laptop |
| 21:11.30 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: send it to me. |
| 21:11.37 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: I'll put it to good use. |
| 21:11.45 | George- | I want a new laptop |
| 21:11.47 | George- | I hate my TiBook |
| 21:11.49 | George- | I HATE IT! |
| 21:12.08 | sheenmaster | George-: send it to me! |
| 21:12.17 | sheenmaster | George-: I have an iBook2 |
| 21:12.19 | George- | sheenmaster: I knew someone would say that |
| 21:12.34 | George- | sheenmaster: I advise you to stay with your iBook2 |
| 21:12.50 | George- | sheenmaster: The TiBook isn't worth what you pay for it |
| 21:12.52 | sheenmaster | George-: 500mhz G3 w/ 384mb/ram, Linux+OS9+OSX, 20gb hard disk, combo drive |
| 21:12.58 | George- | sheenmaster: it's a shitty, horrible, evil machine |
| 21:13.05 | sheenmaster | George-: what's wrong with it? |
| 21:13.10 | George- | sheenmaster: what's WRONG? |
| 21:13.40 | sheenmaster | George-: I've only had two problems w/ my iBook |
| 21:13.47 | Zxcvb | anyone know how to get java games off of freearcade.com? |
| 21:13.54 | George- | sheenmaster: the keyboard scratches the screen, the paint reacts with your skin and blisters and bubbles up, it gets very hot, the DVD/CD-RW drive is erratic, the firewire blows up because there's no ESD circuit... |
| 21:13.54 | mspencer | wget? |
| 21:13.58 | sheenmaster | George-: it turns ittself off when closed and you have to position headphones just right |
| 21:14.30 | Zxcvb | mspencer: not that simple |
| 21:14.34 | sheenmaster | George-: are you serious about that paint shit? |
| 21:14.37 | George- | oh yah, and the DVD/CD-RW drive doesn't take DVD-R media... at all |
| 21:14.41 | George- | sheenmaster: YES |
| 21:14.46 | George- | sheenmaster: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/eric.rsoc |
| 21:14.51 | George- | sheenmaster: I'm thoroughly pissed |
| 21:14.53 | sheenmaster | George-: it's a cd burner, not a dvd burner |
| 21:14.59 | mspencer | I wonder if you could just start playing a game, then pull the jar file out of your cache or something... |
| 21:15.06 | mspencer | view source and find out what parameters the applet is started with... |
| 21:15.08 | George- | sheenmaster: no, DVD-R media that has been burnt to |
| 21:15.19 | George- | sheenmaster: it refuses to read it.. even Apple branded DVD-R media |
| 21:15.32 | George- | sheenmaster: trust me, you *don't* want this piece of shit |
| 21:16.20 | Zxcvb | George-: i'll take it |
| 21:16.35 | George- | Zxcvb: no :) |
| 21:16.45 | Zxcvb | George-: it can't be any worse than a 486/100 with 640x480 screen that only works at 8bpp, and then only with X 3.3.6 |
| 21:16.57 | Zxcvb | George-: oh, and mwave sound, so sound won't work |
| 21:17.02 | George- | Zxcvb: Basically it stands at this: either PC World replace *all* the faulty components, replaces it, or *fully* refunds it |
| 21:17.24 | George- | Zxcvb: either way, it requires me to hang onto it |
| 21:17.27 | Zxcvb | George-: they probably want some stupid restocking fee |
| 21:17.33 | George- | Zxcvb: otherwise I'd probably get out a hammer and smash it |
| 21:17.47 | George- | Zxcvb: they can go fuck off with their restocking fee, and get stuffed |
| 21:17.48 | mspencer | If you paid via credit card and the merchandise isn't what it was advertised to be, you can issue a chargeback for the restocking fee. |
| 21:18.17 | sheenmaster | George-: I'll trade you my iBook for it. |
| 21:18.23 | Zxcvb | mspencer: only if it was purchased less than 100 miles from your home |
| 21:18.27 | George- | sheenmaster: no thanks |
| 21:18.29 | Zxcvb | mspencer: usually |
| 21:18.29 | mspencer | I work for a credit card processor -- we see chargebacks like this all the time. merchant charging an extra fee for using credit cards -- not allowed, charged back...customer cancels the order, merchant charges a restocking fee anyway, charged back... |
| 21:18.35 | sheenmaster | George-: I couldn't give less of a shit about the paint and I never use OS X on the batter. |
| 21:18.46 | Zxcvb | mspencer: are you in the OS? |
| 21:19.01 | Zxcvb | George-: tried OS X in mac-on-linux? |
| 21:19.08 | Zxcvb | mspencer: US, that is |
| 21:19.13 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: I tried it, with no luck |
| 21:19.14 | mspencer | shipping provider can't deliver, or delivers to the wrong address, merchandise gets returned, merchant tries to charge a restocking fee anyway -- charged back... |
| 21:19.30 | Zxcvb | sheenmaster: mac on linux should fake OS X out |
| 21:19.39 | mspencer | Yes, I'm in the US. I think VisaNet and MasterCard regulations are similar in other countries, but we don't have any merchants that aren't in the US or Canada... |
| 21:19.54 | sheenmaster | mspencer: a friend of mine was charged for 3 years of AOL after canceling his subscription. could that be charged back? |
| 21:20.09 | Zxcvb | sheenmaster: and there were several installers for OS X that would bypass the checks |
| 21:20.14 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: you can also change power management options in OS X |
| 21:20.16 | mspencer | Under VisaNet at least, you lose chargeback rights after six months or a year, I forget...probably too late... |
| 21:20.35 | mspencer | Yeah, I think the customer loses chargeback rights after six months, but the merchant is required to keep sales draft copies back one year... |
| 21:20.50 | Zxcvb | mspencer: but if they wait 3 years, then try to charge you, does that count? |
| 21:21.03 | mspencer | oh, if the charge is within six months, go for it. :) |
| 21:21.05 | Zxcvb | mspencer: isn't that 6 months after the charge is applied? |
| 21:21.14 | mspencer | Yeah, six months after the charge is applied. |
| 21:21.25 | *** join/#zaurus [George] (~Test@m347-mp1.cvx1-b.man.dial.ntli.net) |
| 21:21.26 | *** join/#zaurus vhalros (~vhalros@syr-24-59-96-194.twcny.rr.com) |
| 21:21.35 | Zxcvb | mspencer: I thought those chargebacks only applied if it was purchased in your state, or no more than 100 miles from your home |
| 21:21.41 | sheenmaster | mspencer: they got 4 months of charges back, but lost the other 32 months. |
| 21:21.55 | mspencer | "Chargeback reason: no authorization. Cardholder's bank asserts they gave no authorization for the charge. Therefore we have debited your depository account $___.__" |
| 21:22.14 | Zxcvb | mspencer: or otherwise, you couldn't charge back based on the merchandise not being as advertised |
| 21:22.25 | Zxcvb | mspencer: so is that 100 mile limitation a big lie? |
| 21:22.27 | mspencer | Right. There are lots of valid reasons for chargebacks... |
| 21:22.35 | mspencer | and I haven't heard anything about a 100 mile limitation. |
| 21:22.53 | mspencer | Customer Service at work isn't open yet, or I'd call and ask one of the CS guys... |
| 21:23.06 | Zxcvb | mspencer: and what about when they have a deal with the CC company not to charge back |
| 21:23.11 | mspencer | I wonder if you can get a copy of the VisaNet regulations online...they'll be wordy and legalese, but very precise. |
| 21:23.25 | Zxcvb | mspencer: for example, john cancels his AOL account, gets charged, and tries to do a chargeback |
| 21:23.44 | Zxcvb | mspencer: but the company refuses to do a chargeback |
| 21:24.09 | mspencer | The issuing bank is refusing to let it be charged back?! |
| 21:24.22 | Zxcvb | mspencer: it has happened several times |
| 21:24.30 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: I think that bricks strapped to AOL CDs with "Unsolicited, Return to Sender" stickers is more effective. |
| 21:24.31 | Zxcvb | mspencer: because of some deal they made with AOL |
| 21:24.43 | Zxcvb | sheenmaster: doesn't work |
| 21:24.54 | mspencer | The customer should report that issuer to VisaNet -- fines for that kind of thing are extremely stiff... |
| 21:25.07 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: I've done it. |
| 21:25.16 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: apparently the mailman hates AOL as much as I do. |
| 21:25.23 | Zxcvb | sheenmaster: the post office, at least in the US, just discards them |
| 21:25.29 | Zxcvb | sheenmaster: you want my favorite? |
| 21:25.29 | mspencer | I know if we screw up and don't pass ecommerce flags on transactions or something, and get caught, the fines to the bank or processor are on the order of high tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars... |
| 21:25.54 | sheenmaster | mspencer: but AOL is above the law, they can afford the law. |
| 21:26.04 | sheenmaster | mspencer: or could afford the law :-) |
| 21:26.07 | Zxcvb | mspencer: so AOL pays the fine for the bank |
| 21:26.11 | sheenmaster | mspencer: broadband is killing them |
| 21:26.16 | Zxcvb | mspencer: it's called an indemnity agreement |
| 21:26.17 | mspencer | That's scary. I guarantee AOL is NOT bigger than the association of banks that jointly own VisaNet. |
| 21:26.25 | *** join/#zaurus cg2 (~cg2@adsl-195-184-237-106.mistral-uk.net) |
| 21:26.35 | Zxcvb | mspencer: so if the bank gets fined a hundred thousand, AOL pays the bank that much |
| 21:26.59 | mspencer | Right. But the bank could lose their ability to issue credit cards if they are fined repeatedly. |
| 21:27.09 | Zxcvb | mspencer: is there any fine for having the contract/terms with the end user be contrary to visanet |
| 21:27.15 | mspencer | Now we're talking clash-of-the-titans type stuff...this would make the newspapers... |
| 21:27.17 | *** join/#zaurus cwaig (~cg2@adsl-195-184-237-106.mistral-uk.net) |
| 21:27.22 | mewyn | hey mspencer. fancy seeing you on this network :) |
| 21:27.42 | Zxcvb | mspencer: for example, if the cardholder terms say there is a 100 mile limit for most chargebacks, but visanet says there is no limit |
| 21:27.47 | mspencer | Not really a fine, but you can issue a chargeback and the VisaNet chargeback arbitrators will find in your favor. |
| 21:28.16 | Zxcvb | mspencer: how do you send a chargeback to visanet |
| 21:28.17 | mspencer | This story happens a lot: web site says "customer agrees to pay a 5% credit card processing fee if he returns the merchandise." Customer returns the merchandise... |
| 21:28.29 | mspencer | You can't send one direct to VisaNet -- it has to come through your issuing bank. |
| 21:28.41 | Zxcvb | mspencer: and what happens when the issuing bank refuses to do so |
| 21:28.58 | mspencer | Now this is speculation, I've never heard of this happening, but I THINK you can complain to VisaNet and get them to investigate your claim... |
| 21:29.11 | mspencer | heya mewyn ^__^ |
| 21:29.18 | mspencer | sorry, didn't see ya :) |
| 21:29.34 | mspencer | I've never actually gone to 'visa.com' before -- lemme see if they've got information on there. :) |
| 21:30.00 | Zxcvb | mspencer: hopefully they have the entire contract for visanet |
| 21:30.17 | Zxcvb | mspencer: the visanet regulations have to be very wordy, and use lots of legalese |
| 21:30.26 | Zxcvb | mspencer: otherwise issuing banks will find loopholes |
| 21:31.38 | mspencer | Yes, they are...so it'd be a difficult read. |
| 21:31.58 | mspencer | For laypersons, my company web site at http://www.foomp.com has a 'reference desk' section with some chargeback case studies that might be interesting to read. |
| 21:32.14 | mspencer | They're targeted at merchants, not customers, but they're still informative. |
| 21:32.49 | Zxcvb | mspencer: not as hard as some of the laws on the books |
| 21:32.58 | mspencer | That's true :) |
| 21:33.22 | Zxcvb | mspencer: I find reading legalese is like reading C programming code |
| 21:35.23 | mspencer | #!/usr/bin/legal |
| 21:35.57 | mspencer | anyway...that's scary, I'd never heard of that before, that an issuing bank could partner with a company and refuse to allow chargebacks. |
| 21:36.07 | mspencer | I'm going to call work tomorrow and ask them about this... |
| 21:36.40 | mspencer | So then your only recourse would be small-claims court. |
| 21:37.20 | mspencer | Wow, that's...horrible...the whole credit card processing system is supposed to be set up to bypass that might-equals-right thing, where companies have the financial resources to beat customers at just about any legal motion... |
| 21:37.53 | Zxcvb | mspencer: do chargebacks apply to visa check cards? |
| 21:37.53 | mspencer | so chargeback arbitration is supposed to favor the customer, and require the merchant to pursue legal action after they've already lost the money. They can't say "you have to take me to court to get your $1000 back"... |
| 21:38.13 | mspencer | Yes, anything with the visa logo processed as a visa card (i.e. no pin number) falls under Visa regulations. |
| 21:38.52 | mspencer | even these World Gift Card things, where you pay cash and get a visa card that's been 'charged up' and can only be depleted once... |
| 21:39.18 | mewyn | mspencer: they aren't rechargable? |
| 21:39.21 | mewyn | that's dumb |
| 21:39.28 | Zxcvb | mspencer: would that apply to CDs that show the CDDA logo, yet are corrupt? |
| 21:39.30 | mspencer | Avoid it if at all possible. I've seen too many mom and pop operations that start taking credit cards for the convience of their customers, but don't understand what all can happen and get burnt... |
| 21:39.35 | Zxcvb | mspencer: and the store refuses to take them back |
| 21:39.38 | mspencer | Hey, I didn't design the product. :) |
| 21:39.53 | Zxcvb | mspencer: as "copy protected" CDs can't legally show the CDDA logo |
| 21:40.01 | mspencer | It might, but face to face purchases are more difficult to charge back. |
| 21:40.36 | mspencer | If the merchant can show they swiped your credit card, and that they have your signature on the slip, you can't just say 'no authorization' -- you have to demonstrate that the merchandise was defective. |
| 21:40.50 | mewyn | mspencer: yah, for a cafe i may not need to do CC, but since it's an internet cafe, i may need to do automated billing for monthly subscribers |
| 21:40.54 | mspencer | You'd issue a chargeback and the merchant would file a reversal, and so it'd go into arbitration. |
| 21:41.33 | oGMo | mspencer: how often do bogus chargebacks occur? |
| 21:41.43 | mspencer | To hear merchants talk, they're all bogus. ^__^ |
| 21:41.58 | oGMo | heh ;) |
| 21:42.03 | Zxcvb | mspencer: and if the bank claims that since it's a check card transaction, that it's too bad, it's a hundred thousand out of their pocket? |
| 21:42.33 | mspencer | Honestly, I don't know. We get some merchants who say "knock on wood, I've been taking cards in such-and-such insecure way and have never gotten a chargeback..." and some who say "you guys are crooks, your service sucks, you keep taking the money back, I have no clue what's going on..." |
| 21:43.02 | oGMo | hmm |
| 21:43.03 | mspencer | no, it's not that, Zxcvb -- if you ran the card as a debit card, with a typed pin number, then you have no chargeback rights. |
| 21:43.19 | Zxcvb | mspencer: no, it's a debit card, run with no pin |
| 21:43.26 | Zxcvb | mspencer: debit cards are dual mode |
| 21:43.33 | mspencer | Right. Online debit and offline credit... |
| 21:43.51 | Zxcvb | mspencer: and you can tell them to run it as a credit card |
| 21:43.59 | mspencer | (called 'online' because there has to be a two-way communication between the issuing bank and the physical pin pad, to get the pin number sent securely...) |
| 21:44.11 | mspencer | Right. If they're run as a credit card then VisaNet regulations apply. |
| 21:44.22 | Zxcvb | mspencer: some banks don't think so |
| 21:44.27 | Zxcvb | mspencer: but will send it on anyway |
| 21:44.39 | Zxcvb | mspencer: if you pester them enough, that is |
| 21:45.04 | mspencer | Well, VisaNet doesn't protect the customer in all situations. if the merchant swiped the credit card, or took an imprint with one of those carbon-copy machines ("knucklebusters") and you signed the sales draft then the burden of proof is on you. |
| 21:45.51 | oGMo | it's always sounded fair to me ;) |
| 21:46.04 | Zxcvb | mspencer: I mean for things like not as advertised |
| 21:46.04 | oGMo | but then i've alwayas been in favor of favoring the individual |
| 21:46.25 | mspencer | It usually is. Unless you're a mom and pop merchant who never got educated in how to protect against mail order fraud... |
| 21:46.44 | oGMo | heh |
| 21:47.15 | Zxcvb | mspencer: especially if you can get a manager to say "we do not accept returns on CDs, even though they don't work and the CD lied about being CDDA compatible" |
| 21:47.16 | oGMo | ignorance shouldn't be an excuse, but welcome to the good old US of A |
| 21:47.21 | mspencer | It always breaks my heart to hear about those. I do credit card machine technical support...usually customer service deals with the financial side of things, but sometimes a merchant will tell me about something like this, and I hate to hear about it... |
| 21:47.49 | mspencer | Well, it isn't an excuse -- they get reamed for their ignorance. |
| 21:48.12 | Zxcvb | oGMo: they shouldn't be allowed to process credit cards until they show they are not ignorant |
| 21:48.28 | oGMo | Zxcvb: i think that should apply to a lot of things |
| 21:48.33 | oGMo | but don't get me started on that ;) |
| 21:48.34 | Zxcvb | oGMo: chargebacks cost the credit card companies as well |
| 21:48.55 | oGMo | like say, voting should require you get a good score on a serious exam |
| 21:49.00 | Zxcvb | mspencer: some people have used chargebacks against "copy protected" CDs that still have the CDDA logo |
| 21:49.07 | oGMo | Zxcvb: yeah |
| 21:49.09 | mspencer | Yeah. Merchant processors like my company usually assess an extra fee for chargebacks. We charge $10 to handle our expenses... |
| 21:49.34 | *** join/#zaurus Wint (mike@pavonis.waspfactory.org) |
| 21:49.36 | Zxcvb | mspencer: since those CDs can't legally carry the CDDA logo, so whoever made the CD is guitly of not only false advertising, but trademark infringement |
| 21:49.41 | mspencer | I'm totally on your side on the CDDA issue, but you'll probably have to show links to web sites that show that the specific CD you bought has that kind of defect... |
| 21:49.43 | *** join/#zaurus sjborch (~knoppix@adsl-63-206-234-149.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 21:49.53 | oGMo | i don't see anything wrong with that, a small fee keeps someone serious about chargebacks while allowing you to get the majority of your money back |
| 21:50.10 | mspencer | You don't have to convince me. (nono, the customer gets ALL their money back...the merchant gets hit with the fee.) |
| 21:50.10 | Zxcvb | oGMo: no, the fee is to the merchant |
| 21:50.13 | [George] | CDDA? |
| 21:50.19 | oGMo | Zxcvb: hrm |
| 21:50.21 | Zxcvb | [George]: the audio CD standard |
| 21:50.23 | oGMo | ah |
| 21:50.26 | [George] | Zxcvb: ahhh |
| 21:50.43 | Zxcvb | [George]: copy controlled CDs like safeaudio and key2audio can't legally have that logo |
| 21:50.44 | [George] | Zxcvb: the evil copy protected CDs aren't compliant with standards are they? |
| 21:50.52 | Zxcvb | [George]: no, but they have the logo anyway |
| 21:51.01 | Zxcvb | [George]: so it's fraud and trademark infringement |
| 21:51.01 | [George] | omfg |
| 21:51.12 | [George] | I think we should take legal action against these people! ;) |
| 21:51.15 | [George] | DIE RIAA! |
| 21:51.15 | [George] | lol |
| 21:51.16 | oGMo | i'd think you could prosecute under false advertising laws, but that requires money for a lawyer i guess |
| 21:51.22 | Zxcvb | can anyone who is harmed by trademark infringement sue for statutory damages? |
| 21:51.41 | Zxcvb | they are something like $200,000 per count, and you don't even have to show harm |
| 21:51.48 | mspencer | That's why there's chargeback arbitrators...so you don't need a lawyer. |
| 21:51.58 | Zxcvb | the question is, can anyone who is misled do that, or only the trademark holder? |
| 21:52.00 | [George] | I hate... the RIAA... I hate... the RIAA |
| 21:52.02 | [George] | .... |
| 21:52.14 | Zxcvb | [George]: I can't wait for them to pass the hacking bill |
| 21:52.19 | mspencer | But then again, the last text on most "hey merchant, you've just been charged back, and you're not getting your money back through us" letters is a statement that you can always pursue legal action against the customer directly. |
| 21:52.22 | Zxcvb | [George]: just remember, you are a copyright holder |
| 21:52.28 | [George] | Zxcvb: ? |
| 21:52.31 | oGMo | mspencer: yeah... i'd love to see the copy protection people get burned though |
| 21:52.46 | Zxcvb | mspencer: then i say, "fine, then I sue you for contributory trademark infringement" |
| 21:52.52 | [George] | All this copy protection shit is OTT |
| 21:52.57 | [George] | It's never gonna stop the pirates |
| 21:53.01 | [George] | they'll just over come it |
| 21:53.08 | [George] | and in the end, we all suffer |
| 21:53.08 | gaurdian | what is wrong with copy protection, shouldent I be able to protect something I produce from being copied ? |
| 21:53.14 | Zxcvb | [George]: the riaa wants the legal right to h4x0r and DDoS the pirates |
| 21:53.20 | [George] | Zxcvb: I know |
| 21:53.23 | Zxcvb | guardian: and how will you do that? |
| 21:53.28 | [George] | Zxcvb: and then they got DDoS'd themselves :) |
| 21:53.32 | Zxcvb | guardian: short of everyone having brain implants |
| 21:53.35 | gaurdian | my question is shouldent I be allowed to ? |
| 21:53.39 | oGMo | gaurdian: you can, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't suck |
| 21:53.52 | Zxcvb | guardian: of course |
| 21:53.56 | Wint | There's nothing wrong with copy protection |
| 21:54.01 | Wint | In principle |
| 21:54.05 | Zxcvb | guardian: and others should be allowed to break it, provided they do not distribute copies |
| 21:54.10 | gaurdian | oGMo , so you should be allowed to take the labor and time and money I put into something and do what you want with it ? |
| 21:54.11 | [George] | Zxcvb: I think that is ridiculous.... "Two wrongs don't make a right", so what use is h4x0ring (a bigger wrong than breaking copyright law imho) gonna do? |
| 21:54.13 | Zxcvb | guardian: other than fair use and such |
| 21:54.15 | oGMo | it's like, you can package low-quality shitty foods in dark glass bottles so people won't know they've been had til they get home, but that doens't mean you don't suck |
| 21:54.16 | Wint | In practice it tends to be odious (i.e. my Madrugada CD) |
| 21:54.21 | oGMo | gaurdian: yes? |
| 21:54.27 | oGMo | gaurdian: i paid for it, i own it |
| 21:54.28 | sheenmaster | Wint: yes there is; it forces purchases for shitty discs to buy another copy when the first is damaged |
| 21:54.34 | oGMo | if you're not happy, charge more |
| 21:54.37 | Zxcvb | how about a compromise |
| 21:54.48 | oGMo | but then, your stuff isn't probably worth it anyway ;) |
| 21:54.52 | Zxcvb | there is nothing wrong with copy protection as long as it has no legal force (i.e. no DMCA) |
| 21:54.54 | mspencer | I think copyright is a social thing -- it's a law, a social contract between people. We shouldn't be making our machines enforce this law for us, because machines aren't smart enough for the task. |
| 21:54.54 | sheenmaster | Wint: I think the more important part is that there is nothing wrong with circumventing copy protection. |
| 21:55.03 | gaurdian | think what you want... |
| 21:55.08 | Zxcvb | sheenmaster: good point |
| 21:55.09 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: yeah |
| 21:55.16 | [George] | Zxcvb: I swear, if they DDoS the wrong person, they're gonna have hell to pay |
| 21:55.17 | [George] | lol |
| 21:55.18 | oGMo | copyrights are for _promoting_ the arts and sciences |
| 21:55.18 | Zxcvb | sheenmaster: they have the right to use it, we have the righ to circumvent |
| 21:55.24 | Wint | The big problem is not copy protection, it is that the big companies are going to use the technology to fuck the customer instead of only protecting themselves reasonably |
| 21:55.35 | Zxcvb | Wint: there can be no reasonable protection |
| 21:55.41 | oGMo | that's what _all_ IP law is supposed to be for |
| 21:55.59 | oGMo | not for you hording your stuff |
| 21:56.00 | Wint | Zxcvb: Not sure I buy that actually. |
| 21:56.08 | sheenmaster | Wint: if you were coding such as system, wouldn't you "overlook" some fatal flaw? Things like that will always happen; that's why they want legal protection as a backup. |
| 21:56.14 | oGMo | gaurdian: oh, ever heard of "fair use"? ;) |
| 21:56.24 | gaurdian | Yes I have herd of fair use |
| 21:56.32 | oGMo | i am legally able to use your work in my own as it is... copy protection takes away my fair use rights |
| 21:56.34 | mspencer | this is one of those common flamewar topics -- maybe we shouldn't hash this out here... |
| 21:56.41 | oGMo | mspencer: probably not |
| 21:56.45 | Zxcvb | Wint: unless you can copy the conciousness/soul of the supreme court justices into every electronic device on the planet |
| 21:56.49 | Wint | oGMo: Don't be silly |
| 21:57.14 | oGMo | I'm not silly. |
| 21:57.16 | *** join/#zaurus NeoTron (~neotron@12-231-103-203.client.attbi.com) |
| 21:57.16 | *** mode/#zaurus [+o NeoTron] by ChanServ |
| 21:57.20 | TDT | What package for the zaurus is the one that contains informationa bout the wireless nicks |
| 21:57.23 | [George] | look, we all know how evil the RIAA is, and how evil these copy protection metho |
| 21:57.24 | TDT | *nics |
| 21:57.25 | [George] | ds are |
| 21:57.29 | gaurdian | oGMo , not only are you wrong, that is the EXACT sentiment that keps companies looking at open source as a bunch of nuts |
| 21:57.34 | [George] | so let's just shut up now :) |
| 21:57.39 | oGMo | gaurdian: how am I wrong? |
| 21:57.43 | oGMo | gaurdian: it's the _law_ |
| 21:57.48 | oGMo | if you don't like it, i don't care |
| 21:57.51 | TDT | is it nmap? I need to know so I can get my zaurus working again |
| 21:57.53 | gaurdian | because fair use does not mean anything you want |
| 21:58.01 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: what does it mean? |
| 21:58.03 | oGMo | gaurdian: of course it doesn't |
| 21:58.06 | [George] | oGMo: the law is not always right |
| 21:58.16 | oGMo | gaurdian: i'll give you an example _right this week_ |
| 21:58.21 | TDT | .....lol...guys, come on |
| 21:58.21 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: then why does it say "to promot progress in science and the arts" |
| 21:58.24 | [George] | guys, let's just have a flamewar about MarkNovak? ;) |
| 21:58.30 | gaurdian | fair use, legally defined, includes personal backups, personal copies et al. |
| 21:58.34 | Wint | Hm |
| 21:58.41 | [George] | "YOU'RE H4X0RING ME!!!! YOU'RE TELNETTING TO MY SERVER ON PORT 80!!!" |
| 21:58.48 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: yet bugtraq postings are being threatened |
| 21:58.54 | [George] | "ZoneAlarm is saying I have a high alert" |
| 21:59.01 | [George] | lol |
| 21:59.08 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: look at HP and snosoft, alan cox censoring security holes in the changelog |
| 21:59.24 | *** join/#zaurus NeoTron (~neotron@12-231-103-203.client.attbi.com) |
| 21:59.24 | *** mode/#zaurus [+o NeoTron] by ChanServ |
| 21:59.25 | oGMo | gaurdian: someone I know (a student) needed 2 movie clips from DVDs ... short 3 minute clips. Falls under fair use laws. CSS made that kinda tough. |
| 21:59.25 | Wint | ogmo: Oh, I see your point re fair use. I don't agree - if you want to sample clips of some copy protected CD in your review then you can of course just use a microphone |
| 21:59.36 | Zxcvb | oGMo: and illegal |
| 21:59.39 | *** join/#zaurus Gatu|ZZzzZZzz (~gatu_kon@ppp-62-245-160-123.mnet-online.de) |
| 21:59.40 | oGMo | Zxcvb: wrong |
| 21:59.43 | Wint | For that purpose the quality is fine. |
| 21:59.47 | gaurdian | neded for what ? |
| 21:59.59 | oGMo | Zxcvb: perfectly legal... i have fair use to use short clips, especially in education |
| 22:00.15 | Zxcvb | oGMo: IP used to be copyrights, patents, trademarks, and trade secrets |
| 22:00.32 | Zxcvb | oGMo: now IP is trademarks, copyrights, patents, trade secrets, and ACCESS RIGHTS |
| 22:00.43 | Zxcvb | oGMo: the DMCA creates a new form of IP, completely seperate from copyright |
| 22:00.49 | oGMo | Zxcvb: ah |
| 22:00.52 | oGMo | Zxcvb: true |
| 22:00.54 | Wint | And that is the problem |
| 22:00.56 | [George] | SHUT UP! |
| 22:00.58 | oGMo | it is |
| 22:01.00 | *** join/#zaurus MEGA|Home (~megastep@home.megastep.org) |
| 22:01.50 | oGMo | actually trade secrets aren't exactly covered in the conventional sense, but yeah |
| 22:01.52 | [George] | 4,9STOP IT OR I'LL START TALKING LIKE THIS! |
| 22:01.58 | [George] | =P |
| 22:02.06 | Wint | Who elected you channel president? |
| 22:02.07 | oGMo | [George]: i could turn on my color filters |
| 22:02.15 | Wint | We could all just put him on ignore |
| 22:02.16 | [George] | Wint: no one |
| 22:02.18 | ShiShi | i have problem at start kpacman :"no schemes selected " |
| 22:02.20 | oGMo | that too ;) |
| 22:02.30 | [George] | Wint: I've declared a facist channel now, and I'm taking over ;) |
| 22:02.32 | oGMo | ShiShi: OZ or sharp? |
| 22:02.34 | sheenmaster | ShiShi: we all do |
| 22:02.40 | oGMo | ah |
| 22:02.40 | [George] | ShiShi: I get that trouble too |
| 22:02.43 | sheenmaster | ShiShi: It gives me that in OZ |
| 22:02.48 | ShiShi | Oz |
| 22:02.53 | Wint | ** Ignoring ALL messages from [GEORGE] |
| 22:02.55 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: a truck bomb outside napster's headquarters would have stopped p2p once and for all |
| 22:02.58 | oGMo | i guess i haven't started it from the command line |
| 22:03.02 | [George] | lol |
| 22:03.07 | [George] | Thank god the topic has changed |
| 22:03.08 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: after all, IP is an absolute right and must be protected |
| 22:03.09 | oGMo | Zxcvb: heh, p2p |
| 22:03.12 | gaurdian | Zxcvb , uh......ok |
| 22:03.13 | [George] | Zxcvb: shut up |
| 22:03.16 | mspencer | whoa, whoa, guys... |
| 22:03.21 | [George] | Zxcvb: stop arguing about copyright law!!! |
| 22:03.32 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: if IP is property, then why is it wrong to use lethal force to protect IP |
| 22:03.39 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: or would a bigger, uglier, filesharer replace it? |
| 22:03.44 | oGMo | gaurdian> fair use, legally defined, includes personal backups, personal copies et al. |
| 22:03.53 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: if it is ok to use lethal force to protect my physical property, why can't I use lethal force to protect my IP |
| 22:04.03 | gaurdian | I never said it was ok to use lethal force to protect all property....kinda reaching there arent ya ? |
| 22:04.06 | oGMo | gaurdian: no, it defines how i'm able to use the work for my own purposes outside of that |
| 22:04.26 | gaurdian | oGMo , not nessirially |
| 22:04.29 | mspencer | all I know about that is..."never threaten to cost someone more money than it would cost them to hire a hitman." |
| 22:04.30 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: if anything, shouldn't it be more acceptable to use lethal force to protect IP? |
| 22:04.43 | oGMo | Zxcvb: that would be very... gibsonian ;) |
| 22:04.57 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: and how about patent laws bringing back slavery |
| 22:05.14 | gaurdian | gee, now your really reaching |
| 22:05.17 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: one US company owns a patent on not only the process of cloning animals, but the product |
| 22:05.20 | oGMo | not really |
| 22:05.32 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: which means if you clone a baby, the company has a patent on your baby |
| 22:05.40 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: that is, the company OWNS your baby |
| 22:05.49 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: and he will have to have a license to live |
| 22:05.54 | gaurdian | Zxcvb , yawn..... |
| 22:05.58 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: or he becomes a slave |
| 22:06.09 | mspencer | A company could only exercise their patent rights in a court of law, and a judge would have to issue a ruling.. |
| 22:06.12 | Wint | That really is reaching |
| 22:06.13 | mspencer | so there's a human in there somewhere. |
| 22:06.20 | Zxcvb | why? |
| 22:06.35 | Zxcvb | the company would own a patent on human beings if a human was cloned |
| 22:06.50 | treke|uhoh | Zxcvb: No they wouldnt. They have a patent on the process of creating a clone |
| 22:06.54 | mspencer | aren't patents on processes? |
| 22:06.56 | gaurdian | Zxcvb , you logic is extreamly flawed |
| 22:07.03 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: nope |
| 22:07.05 | TDT | Does anyone know what the package name that contains the definitions for the wireless LAN cards is? I'm having a very big problem. |
| 22:07.07 | gaurdian | yes |
| 22:07.14 | Zxcvb | treke|uhoh: they own a patent on the cloned product |
| 22:07.20 | Zxcvb | treke|uhoh: that is, the human |
| 22:07.26 | sheenmaster | TDT: hostap |
| 22:07.27 | treke|uhoh | Zxcvb: No. They dont |
| 22:07.29 | TDT | My card isn't detected, I know I need a package in the UNSTABLE part, but I can't remember which one. |
| 22:07.31 | TDT | ok thx sheenmaster |
| 22:07.35 | sheenmaster | TDT: download the unstable one to a cf and install it. |
| 22:07.36 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: and why can't IP provide ownership over humans |
| 22:07.43 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: it is their property |
| 22:07.48 | mspencer | Zxcvb: you might want to consult a lawyer to find out the answer... |
| 22:07.50 | gaurdian | for one, that conflicts with other laws |
| 22:08.01 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: those laws can be changed, and will be |
| 22:08.05 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: humans can't be bought and sold, so they have no value |
| 22:08.14 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: that's why its legal to steal a kidney :-) |
| 22:08.15 | gaurdian | oh...wow....youre a psychic also...cool |
| 22:08.17 | Zxcvb | sheenmaster: they can if patent laws allow ownership |
| 22:08.33 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: the golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules |
| 22:08.43 | mspencer | British Telecom owns us all! OHNOS! |
| 22:08.56 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: if the law says that they own a patent on humans, then that is their property |
| 22:08.57 | gaurdian | and you obviouesly are good at quoting glib |
| 22:09.00 | oGMo | i don't think things would actually go that far, but then maybe i'm an optimist |
| 22:09.11 | oGMo | but gaurdian is definitely being shortsighted |
| 22:09.13 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: and it is wrong to oppose that |
| 22:09.39 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: just like it was wrong for those damn abolitionists to help slaves escape before the civil war |
| 22:09.44 | gaurdian | in your opiniopn oGMo , in your OPINION |
| 22:09.55 | mspencer | Approaching Godwins Law threshhold...danger...danger... |
| 22:10.01 | Zxcvb | gaurdian: after all, the law determines right and wrong |
| 22:10.02 | treke|uhoh | Zxcvb: what is with your need to troll #zaurus? |
| 22:10.18 | treke|uhoh | the law determines what is illegal and illefal |
| 22:10.30 | treke|uhoh | right and wrong are a seperate issue |
| 22:10.34 | oGMo | gaurdian: yes, and my opinion is all that matters |
| 22:10.34 | oGMo | ;) |
| 22:10.50 | gaurdian | the law does not, and was never intended to judge right and wrong, it just legality, nothing more nothing less |
| 22:11.19 | sheenmaster | Zxcvb: hate to tell you this, but ownership of people can't be legally denied until there is a legal definition of a soul, sentience being the closest definable equivalent |
| 22:11.20 | mspencer | Right. Judges judge right and wrong. Lawmakers create laws that are supposed to approximate right and wrong. |
| 22:11.27 | mspencer | Some lawmakers and some judges can be bought, but not all of them. |
| 22:11.30 | oGMo | mspencer: someone should just yell "HITLER" and terminate this thread with a .. d'oh! SIGGODWIN, thread terminated. |
| 22:11.39 | sheenmaster | mspencer: enough money can buy anyone |
| 22:11.50 | sheenmaster | HITLER! |
| 22:12.09 | treke|uhoh | oGMo: dammit you just invalidated the usage |
| 22:12.10 | gaurdian | mspencer , actually judges determine adherance to law, not right and wrong |
| 22:12.25 | treke|uhoh | oGMo: It doesnt work when you do it inentionally |
| 22:12.33 | mspencer | sometimes judges decide not to apply a law, because it seems wrong. |
| 22:12.35 | oGMo | treke|uhoh: damn |
| 22:12.45 | gaurdian | mspencer , true |
| 22:12.54 | mspencer | Sometimes judges apply the law even when the law seems to achieve something 'wrong'... |
| 22:13.00 | *** join/#zaurus hobbs (~andrew@207.231.98.139) |
| 22:13.02 | oGMo | yeah |
| 22:13.14 | oGMo | there's far too much emphasis placed on precedent these days imho |
| 22:13.30 | mspencer | and sometimes the price of a moral judge, multiplied by the number of moral judges in the world, exceeds the bankroll of an evil company. :) |
| 22:14.11 | *** join/#zaurus frogman (~bob@te0150.peakpeak.com) |
| 22:15.18 | frogman | is Sandisk SD memory ok to use with openzaurus? |
| 22:15.34 | treke|uhoh | frogman: not recommended |
| 22:15.46 | mspencer | I'm just passing on secondhand info, but I've heard Sandisk is the one brand everybody agrees NOT to use. |
| 22:16.04 | frogman | treke|uhoh: what is recommended? i want to expand to at least 128mb. |
| 22:16.12 | mspencer | Aside from that, opinions are divided...some people seem to think anything but sandisk should probably be fine, some people reall prefer certain major brands... |
| 22:16.13 | gaurdian | thats od, mspencer , maby I am lucky, I have a 128 Sandisk and works great |
| 22:16.15 | treke|uhoh | frogman: no idea |
| 22:16.26 | gaurdian | and a 128 memorex CF card |
| 22:16.26 | mspencer | OK, opinions are divided on sandisk also ^__^ |
| 22:16.47 | gaurdian | but I tend to think the majority are against SD, I am just lucky I guess |
| 22:16.54 | frogman | i did hear about alot of problems with Sandisk and that's why i'm asking. |
| 22:17.03 | gaurdian | as did I frogman |
| 22:18.10 | frogman | but i've seen how alot of the people having problems with it were also able to fix the problems. it's a fairly inexpensive card, and getting a 256mb would be nice. |
| 22:18.58 | frogman | mostly i just want to get more memory so i can start using the Z with openzaurus and start really having some fun with it |
| 22:19.47 | sheenmaster | frogman: I have a 256mb sd card |
| 22:19.54 | sheenmaster | frogman: couldn't survive w/out it and my wifi |
| 22:20.06 | frogman | sheenmaster: what brand is it? |
| 22:21.17 | sheenmaster | frogman: not sure, don't want to remove it at the moment |
| 22:21.59 | frogman | ok, at least i know there is hope |
| 22:24.56 | frogman | whoa! buy.com has a 256mb Sandisk for 69.99. that's kind of worth a shot. could probably sell it if it didn't work |
| 22:25.04 | frogman | with Z |
| 22:26.23 | mspencer | Have there been any reliability problems with microdrives? |
| 22:27.14 | mspencer | (and if one uses a 1 GB microdrive for media, and an SD card for applications...how far does storage "stretch" on the Zaurus? Is 64 MB a ton of room? Is 256 MB enough for most anything out there, all at once?) |
| 22:27.54 | frogman | mspencer: i just heard the 1gb drains the battery *fast* |
| 22:28.08 | mspencer | that's fine -- I'll be using a big honkin outboard battery pack anyway :) |
| 22:28.18 | frogman | good idea |
| 22:28.54 | mspencer | As a matter of fact, if I can get information from people who already have a C700 -- if I could get voltage and plug size information from them, I could have the battery pack done by the time my Z gets here ^__^ |
| 22:28.57 | frogman | i would be happy with 256 mb, then i can do mp3s all day, or develop whatever i want |
| 22:29.26 | frogman | mspencer: you making your own battery pack? |
| 22:29.44 | mspencer | well, I'd say more like "assembling", but yeah... |
| 22:29.56 | mspencer | it's not like I'm doing anything that needs any skill... |
| 22:30.15 | _Psycho | someone posted a web opage about it earlier |
| 22:30.19 | frogman | that's true. |
| 22:30.33 | _Psycho | want me to seek for it mspencer ? |
| 22:30.36 | mspencer | http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/Casio/DennisWolfe/BatteryExtender/BatteryExtender.htm |
| 22:30.49 | mspencer | I brought it up in the forum :) |
| 22:31.04 | mspencer | my links was to a page on dansdata, where he built a big honkin thing for his digital camera... |
| 22:31.04 | Zxcvb | mspencer: does it use 5V? |
| 22:31.07 | mspencer | erm link... |
| 22:31.17 | mspencer | I don't know -- I'll need to find that out from whoever has a C700... |
| 22:31.22 | frogman | right on |
| 22:31.48 | mspencer | I'll be using something like 9000 mAh D cells, possibly two sets in parallel... |
| 22:31.50 | George- | ok, I'm gonna install a complete Qt devel env on my Z :) |
| 22:31.55 | George- | Coz I'm a psychopath |
| 22:31.55 | George- | mwahahaha |
| 22:32.12 | mspencer | Compiling...linking...crap, battery's dead. |
| 22:32.13 | mewyn | mspencer: icefox/benmeyer has one (he works for sharp). kergoth may still have his dynamism loaner. (kergoth is the OZ guy) |
| 22:32.23 | mspencer | ah, cool :) |
| 22:32.25 | *** join/#zaurus sjborch (~knoppix@adsl-63-206-234-149.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 22:33.03 | mewyn | i wanna get one. but being jobless puts a stop to that :) |
| 22:33.03 | mspencer | I can probably call Dynamism's support number and get the information from them... |
| 22:33.08 | George- | benmeyer has a C700? |
| 22:33.13 | George- | the bastard! |
| 22:33.13 | George- | lol |
| 22:33.20 | Zxcvb | couldn't icefox compile the 5500 SD module for 2.4.19? |
| 22:33.29 | mewyn | hrm... tiem for me to run |
| 22:34.55 | George- | Zxcvb: ben doesn't have access to the sources |
| 22:35.10 | Zxcvb | George-: too bad |
| 22:35.25 | George- | Zxcvb: Our only hope was Tim Riker |
| 22:35.29 | mspencer | do SD cards draw very much current? |
| 22:35.30 | George- | Zxcvb: until he was canned |
| 22:35.45 | Zxcvb | George-: kergoth offered to tell someone outside the US how to make the sd module compatible |
| 22:35.46 | *** join/#zaurus chouimat (~dieu@modemcable120.184-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 22:35.47 | George- | Zxcvb: and Lineo/Metrowerks now claim they don't have the "manpower" to do it |
| 22:35.51 | _Psycho | mspencer, pus that page on babefish on altavista, you might find what you wanted |
| 22:35.53 | _Psycho | http://digit.que.ne.jp/visit/index.cgi?Linux%A5%B6%A5%A6%A5%EB%A5%B9%B3%AB%C8%AF%A5%E1%A5%E2%2F%A5%CF%A1%BC%A5%C9%A5%A6%A5%A7%A5%A2%2F%C5%C5%B8%BB%A5%A2%A5%C0%A5%D7%A5%BF |
| 22:35.57 | _Psycho | there was anothe rone too |
| 22:36.07 | chouimat | ~lart George- |
| 22:36.09 | chouimat | :) |
| 22:36.10 | _Psycho | http://digit.que.ne.jp/visit/?Linux%A5%B6%A5%A6%A5%EB%A5%B9%B3%AB%C8%AF%A5%E1%A5%E2%2F%A5%CF%A1%BC%A5%C9%A5%A6%A5%A7%A5%A2 |
| 22:36.27 | _Psycho | sukoshi linked that earlietr |
| 22:36.38 | George- | is canada covered by all these stupid DMCA laws? |
| 22:36.43 | George- | or the UK? |
| 22:36.43 | _Psycho | yew |
| 22:36.43 | Zxcvb | so if anyone outside the US is willing th hack the module, contact kergoth |
| 22:36.44 | _Psycho | yes |
| 22:36.50 | _Psycho | i believe so george |
| 22:36.57 | Zxcvb | George-: only if the person in canada or the UK ever plans to visit the US |
| 22:36.58 | George- | Zxcvb: does the UK count? |
| 22:37.09 | Zxcvb | George-: yes, provided you never intend to visit the US |
| 22:37.09 | _Psycho | which one Zx ? |
| 22:37.12 | George- | Zxcvb: ouch |
| 22:37.18 | Zxcvb | George-: or even fly over US airspace |
| 22:37.19 | George- | Zxcvb: why? |
| 22:37.24 | _Psycho | im staying close to the US, not a good idea |
| 22:37.26 | Zxcvb | George-: dmitry sklyarov |
| 22:37.34 | George- | wtf?!?!/ |
| 22:37.52 | Zxcvb | George-: check www.eff.org |
| 22:37.54 | George- | dmitry sklyarov? |
| 22:38.07 | Zxcvb | George-: yeah |
| 22:38.13 | chouimat | George-: I can do it but only for my personnal use (canadian law) |
| 22:38.30 | Zxcvb | chouimat: when did canada get the DMCA |
| 22:38.44 | Zxcvb | chouimat: I understand about copyright, but couldn't you just distribute a binary diff? |
| 22:38.45 | mspencer | Psycho: did that page have voltage or power consumption information? |
| 22:38.49 | chouimat | it's the copyright law |
| 22:38.55 | _Psycho | Zx pretty sure we have something about DMCA in canada too |
| 22:39.01 | mspencer | I'd like to get a barrel plug that matches the AC adapter, but hook it up to an outboard battery pack... |
| 22:39.04 | Zxcvb | chouimat: which means you can't distribute the modified module |
| 22:39.10 | Zxcvb | chouimat: but what about a binary diff |
| 22:39.12 | chouimat | exactly |
| 22:39.17 | _Psycho | not sure mspencer, but a lots of info on the hardware, check into the translator ;) |
| 22:39.22 | chouimat | Zxcvb:don't know |
| 22:39.29 | Zxcvb | chouimat: or a script that changes the bytes, that is, a patcher |
| 22:39.53 | Zxcvb | _Psycho: it was defeated, if I remember correctly |
| 22:39.55 | chouimat | Zxcvb:or a script that create the new module |
| 22:40.15 | Zxcvb | chouimat: it would be a script to convert the old module into the new one |
| 22:40.26 | Zxcvb | chouimat: have you ever used .ips patches? |
| 22:40.32 | _Psycho | btw what do you want to hack zx ? |
| 22:40.33 | chouimat | nope |
| 22:40.55 | Zxcvb | chouimat: it is basically a file that says, at offset 0xdeadbeef, change 0xAE to 0xCD |
| 22:41.00 | Zxcvb | chouimat: and so on |
| 22:41.11 | Zxcvb | _Psycho: the sd module to work with kernel 2.4.19 |
| 22:41.18 | chouimat | don't know if it legal to do so |
| 22:41.20 | _Psycho | oh i see |
| 22:41.24 | Zxcvb | chouimat: it should be |
| 22:41.38 | Zxcvb | chouimat: there is nothing in canadian law about anti-circumvention |
| 22:41.39 | _Psycho | im still waiting on that paypal thing to order a C700 from conics |
| 22:41.44 | Zxcvb | chouimat: and there are no copyright issues |
| 22:41.47 | _Psycho | i didnt found any cheaper place |
| 22:42.14 | _Psycho | you have a C700 zx ? |
| 22:42.23 | Zxcvb | chouimat: though if there is a canadian equivelant to the EFF, check with them first |
| 22:42.49 | Zxcvb | _Psycho: no, 5500 |
| 22:42.57 | _Psycho | ah ok |
| 22:43.49 | mspencer | I placed an order with Dynamsim two days ago, and they said they were backordered two to three weeks. |
| 22:44.35 | _Psycho | i rather take the jap version, save like 130$ US |
| 22:46.29 | _Psycho | spencer you ordered anything else than your C700 ? |
| 22:46.35 | _Psycho | battery pack / charger |
| 22:46.37 | _Psycho | or something |
| 22:46.39 | mspencer | Not yet, no. |
| 22:46.59 | mspencer | I was planning on using the existing battery pack and making an outboard battery pack to simulate the AC adapter. |
| 22:47.27 | mspencer | 9000 mAh NiMH D cells are like $15 each at one site I looked at...but I'd have to find a local supplier... |
| 22:47.42 | _Psycho | yeah i saw that too, interesting a lots |
| 22:47.50 | *** join/#zaurus smbj (~smbj@64.30.163.179) |
| 22:52.39 | George- | any lucasarts old adventure game fans here? |
| 22:52.42 | George- | anyone got LOOM? |
| 22:52.58 | George- | i used to have it... before it got lost in the transit from S.Korea to England |
| 22:53.11 | vir182 | hmm, i tried to install libncurses and less. and on both packages i get following error: tar: Bad tar header, skipping ---- any suggestions what i do wrong? |
| 22:53.25 | George- | :) |
| 22:53.39 | TheMasterMind1 | vir182: sounds like corrupt files.. |
| 22:53.53 | TheMasterMind1 | vir182: or you're trying to install openzaurus ipks on sharp rom |
| 22:54.29 | vir182 | i DLed the packages from www.killefiz.de -- no clue if they are for openzaurs |
| 22:55.07 | vir182 | TheMasterMind1 i just used ipkg install <packagename> |
| 22:56.13 | vir182 | TheMasterMind1 i don't think the libncurses and less are different for the openzaurs and the sharp |
| 22:56.18 | vir182 | both command line stuff |
| 23:01.54 | *** join/#zaurus sjborch (~knoppix@adsl-63-206-234-149.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 23:04.20 | *** join/#zaurus Kenpo (Kenpo@p62.246.113.222.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 23:07.46 | mspencer | Radio Shack seems to sell 4500 mAh NiMH D-cells, but not 9000 mAh... |
| 23:10.13 | _Psycho | interesting |
| 23:10.20 | _Psycho | there is radio shark in the us ? |
| 23:11.45 | mspencer | Radio Shark is about right, considering their prices...and yeah, we have them in the US too. |
| 23:12.05 | _Psycho | ah ok |
| 23:13.15 | George- | wow |
| 23:13.27 | George- | Overclocking the Z to 236MHz makes a HUGE difference with SDL |
| 23:13.43 | George- | (specifically, SFCave-SDL) |
| 23:14.59 | mspencer | I'd like to start ordering parts for this outboard battery pack right now...is there anyone around, or any web resources I can use, to find out what voltage the AC adapter outputs? |
| 23:15.20 | Zxcvb | George-: isn't that dangerous? |
| 23:15.37 | Zxcvb | TheMasterMind: OZ doesn't use the tar.gz format |
| 23:15.43 | Zxcvb | TheMasterMind: it uses ar |
| 23:15.48 | Zxcvb | TheMasterMind: as in ar x foo.ipk |
| 23:15.49 | _Psycho | mspencer ya checked the web page earlier ? its pretty much picture of all the hardware i thought they was giving that |
| 23:16.01 | Zxcvb | vir182: it's the package format |
| 23:16.01 | mspencer | I did, but that didn't have any voltage information. |
| 23:16.07 | Zxcvb | vir182: get ipkg-build |
| 23:16.13 | mspencer | And I need the AC Adapter's output, not the battery pack output... |
| 23:16.15 | Zxcvb | vir182: then ar -x foo.ipkg |
| 23:16.26 | _Psycho | ah ok |
| 23:16.30 | Zxcvb | vir182: mkdir CONTROL, tar -zxvf control.tar.gz CONTROL |
| 23:16.39 | Zxcvb | vir182: tar -zxvf data.tar.gz |
| 23:16.44 | _Psycho | they was talking about cutting the plastic thing on a B500 battery to put it on a C700 |
| 23:16.50 | mspencer | (a digital camera that wants 4 batteries, ranging in voltage from 4V to 4.8V, can sometimes run OK on five outboard batteries if the AC adapter says it outputs 6V.) |
| 23:17.11 | Zxcvb | vir182: then rm control.tar.gz, data.tar.gz, debian-binary and the original ipkg |
| 23:17.14 | _Psycho | yeah i saw that |
| 23:17.27 | Zxcvb | vir182: then run ipkg-build . /home/foo/packages/ |
| 23:18.13 | Zxcvb | vir182: and do all that as root |
| 23:21.56 | *** join/#zaurus [George] (~Test@62.252.196.200) |
| 23:35.37 | mspencer | Hmm, the battery pack says DC 3.7V -- three D cells gives anywhere between 3 and 3.6V...four D cells gives anywhere between 4 and 4.8 V, which might be too much. |
| 23:37.07 | *** join/#zaurus Bala (~Rusaw@hsdbsk142-165-143-16.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 23:53.07 | *** join/#zaurus ccamp (ccamp@alb-24-195-55-47.nycap.rr.com) |
| 23:54.09 | pole|out | the Z doesnt have a mic, right? |
| 23:54.10 | TheMasterMind1 | mspencer: the problem is the current, not the voltage |
| 23:54.14 | TheMasterMind1 | you can't provide the current it needs |
