irclog2html for #zaurus on 20021231

`00:00.08`	`port7`	`its a 16mb one`
`00:00.08`	`[DrEvil]`	`I am using EvilROM 2.0`
`00:00.42`	`[DrEvil]`	`it should be big enough`
`00:00.47`	`*** join/#zaurus quiquee (~quique@197.60.dyn-adsl.customer.ch.easynet.net)`
`00:00.51`	`[DrEvil]`	`try reformatting it`
`00:01.16`	`*** join/#zaurus troffasky (~alex@pc-80-194-224-49-ny.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`00:02.03`	`quiquee`	`Hello`
`00:02.25`	`port7`	`k`
`00:02.34`	`port7`	`is that just mkfs`
`00:04.12`	`quiquee`	`I got my Zaurus last week would like to port some apps to it. Is there any place where i can find the relevant info on howto build a (x compile) dev environment for my zaurus ?`
`00:05.06`	`treke\|laptop`	`ibot, howto?`
`00:05.08`		`hmm... howto is at http://www.zauruszone.com/howtos/ or see xcompile for cross compiler setup`
`00:05.58`	`port7`	`yes found it`
`00:06.03`	`port7`	`here we go again`
`00:07.09`	`quiquee`	`if I compile using qtopia libraries, can I run things on openzaurus with opie ?`
`00:07.21`	`treke\|laptop`	`yes`
`00:07.41`	`treke\|laptop`	`and if you compile against the opie versions of the libraries it will work on qtopia`
`00:07.47`	`quiquee`	`ok, tjanks`
`00:07.58`	`darienm`	`Any FreeBSD geeks in here?`
`00:08.08`	`darienm`	`(non-Zaurus issue)`
`00:08.14`	`Hunterkll`	`ya`
`00:08.17`	`quiquee`	`hmmm, this howto doesnt mention opie`
`00:08.17`	`port7`	`i have started mucking with openbsd`
`00:08.19`	`Hunterkll`	`whadayawant?`
`00:10.48`	`*** join/#zaurus PenguinXR2 (~Qirc@66-190-85-148.charterga.net)`
`00:11.08`	`PenguinXR2`	`hey`
`00:14.26`	`[DrEvil]`	`hrmmm`
`00:14.27`	`darienm`	`port7: is that an offer to help?`
`00:15.28`	`port7`	`hmmm`
`00:15.33`	`port7`	`why is it syncing now?`
`00:18.17`	`*** join/#zaurus SP-home (~sirpsycho@adsl-65-71-56-197.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net)`
`00:18.41`	`[DrEvil]`	`because it canm`
`00:18.46`	`[DrEvil]`	`can`
`00:19.36`	`port7`	`computers are like wimmen`
`00:20.13`	`*** join/#zaurus rabbit_uk (~chatzilla@host81-7-56-72.surfport24.v21.co.uk)`
`00:22.12`	`port7`	`thanks guys`
`00:22.17`	`port7`	`much appreciated`
`00:22.36`	`port7`	`or girls...`
`00:25.14`	`*** join/#zaurus caffeinex36 (~caffeine@bgp522997bgs.ebrnsw01.nj.comcast.net)`
`00:31.52`	`*** join/#zaurus oGMo (~rpav@208.187.159.21)`
`00:32.08`	`Neo\|Work`	`[DrEvil]: afaik you need at least a 32 MB CF to flash a rom image (at least a Sharp one)`
`00:32.28`	`Neo\|Work`	`the image is 16 MB and you'll never get exactly 16 MB formatted space out of a 16 MB medium`
`00:32.30`	`Neo\|Work`	`thus, fails`
`00:33.02`	`[DrEvil]`	`hrmm`
`00:37.02`	`*** join/#zaurus Leaves (~Leif@d141-178-151.home.cgocable.net)`
`00:37.37`	`Leaves`	`has anyone gotten the SL-5500 to work over the internet through the usb cradle with WinXP?`
`00:38.11`	`ZzzGogo`	`leaves... yes... only with winroute though`
`00:38.52`	`Leaves`	`ZzzGogo: how did you do it?`
`00:44.45`	`Leaves`	`gotta reboot again`
`00:50.24`	`*** join/#zaurus Leaves (~Leif@d141-178-151.home.cgocable.net)`
`00:50.44`	`Leaves`	`ZzzGogo: do you happen to remember how you setup winroute and the PDA?`
`00:57.28`	`*** join/#zaurus H4NZ0 (zen@202.53.232.70)`
`01:04.26`	`*** join/#zaurus hobbs (~andrew@port-97-241-tnt01.avoca.nni.com)`
`01:07.10`	`*** join/#zaurus Deathwind (~deathwind@modem-pool-422.mis.net)`
`01:10.54`	`*** join/#zaurus raster (~raster@flu11888-1.gw.connect.com.au)`
`01:25.32`	`*** join/#zaurus hunterdie (~kb3hag@pcp02465537pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)`
`01:31.09`	`*** join/#zaurus ZzzGogo (~crazygo@pD9E1F746.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`01:37.43`	`*** join/#zaurus hobbs (~andrew@207.231.98.192)`
`01:41.38`	`treke\|laptop`	`Neo\|Work: you around?`
`01:41.49`	`Neo\|Work`	`yes`
`01:41.53`	`Neo\|Work`	`about to leave however`
`01:42.05`	`treke\|laptop`	`ah. leave :) I'll catch you later`
`01:42.12`	`Neo\|Work`	`ok, bbl`
`01:42.43`	`hobbs`	`anyone here familiar with getting "bus error" on SDL apps?`
`01:47.52`	`*** join/#zaurus prpplague (~joebob@21-190.lctv-b4.cablelynx.com)`
`01:48.26`	`raster`	`hobbs: oh yeah!`
`01:48.38`	`raster`	`hobbs: unaligned memory access.`
`01:48.42`	`hobbs`	`raster: any idea why I keep getting it? I'm trying to cross-compile nofrendo.`
`01:48.42`	`raster`	`:)`
`01:48.46`	`raster`	`its oh so much fun!`
`01:48.47`	`raster`	`:)`
`01:49.15`	`raster`	`basically my experience is that the program reads/writes memory nono-aligned`
`01:49.30`	`raster`	`basically any structs that are packed`
`01:49.33`	`hobbs`	`hrm.`
`01:49.37`	`raster`	`or if ti rummages thru ram by hand with pointers`
`01:49.53`	`hobbs`	`is -mno-short-load-bytes an unacceptable optimization on the Z?`
`01:49.56`	`raster`	`and if it accesses a short or int at a non short or int aligned memory location... BOOM`
`01:50.11`	`raster`	`not sure`
`01:50.14`	`raster`	`i've never used it myself`
`01:50.43`	`hobbs`	`hrm.`
`01:52.06`	`*** join/#zaurus warmi (~ah@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`01:52.08`	`warmi`	`re`
`01:52.20`	`raster`	`repants`
`01:52.41`	`warmi`	`finally got my DSL connection upo`
`01:52.43`	`warmi`	`upo`
`01:52.45`	`warmi`	`crap`
`01:52.46`	`warmi`	`up`
`01:52.47`	`hobbs`	`raster: it's bothering me, because nofrendo should be so much better than zFceu, if it would work. :)`
`01:53.44`	`TheMasterMind1`	`hobbs: i'd try it wthout that option`
`01:53.53`	`hobbs`	`TheMasterMind1: I am now.`
`01:54.13`	`hobbs`	`right now I'm dusting off the memory banks, trying to get it to link. I think I remembered where I put SDL this time, though. :)`
`01:54.31`	`raster`	`hehehehehe`
`01:54.39`	`raster`	`i rememebr i had that problem with evas`
`01:54.45`	`raster`	`when i firset proted it`
`01:54.56`	`hobbs`	`okay. it actually compiled, this time. :)`
`01:55.00`	`raster`	`i was missing an alignment check on the optimised double0-pixel writer`
`01:55.08`	`raster`	`took me a while to realsie what was happneing.`
`01:55.10`	`hobbs`	`(and without -mno-short-load-bytes)`
`01:55.17`	`TheMasterMind1`	`hobbs: hehe`
`01:56.05`	`raster`	`bah`
`01:56.11`	`raster`	`bugger compiling other peoples code`
`01:56.14`	`raster`	`just write your own`
`01:56.17`	`raster`	`its a LOT more fun`
`01:56.19`	`TheMasterMind1`	`:)`
`01:56.21`	`raster`	`we need more wheels!`
`01:56.25`	`warmi`	`raster: how do you handle alignment issues? when the blit is not aligned at 4 bytes ( 2 pixels) do you just copy using word (2 bytes) or what do you do ?`
`01:56.27`	`raster`	`MORE WHEELS!`
`01:56.28`	`raster`	`:)`
`01:56.28`	`TheMasterMind1`	`where'd kergoth run off to`
`01:56.36`	`TheMasterMind1`	`i want a working zaurus by tommorow night`
`01:57.07`	`raster`	`warmi: 2 ways. do a 1 pixel fixup then unroll to do 4byte aligned copies and then a fixup at the scanline end as well (if needed)`
`01:57.19`	`raster`	`or if src/dst is not aligned`
`01:57.28`	`raster`	`fal back to single-pixel-at-a-time mode`
`01:57.48`	kergoth`bbl	`TheMasterMind1: so get it working then :P`
`01:58.00`	`TheMasterMind1`	kergoth`bbl: heh
`01:58.04`	`TheMasterMind1`	kergoth`bbl: i need your help
`01:58.06`	`raster`	`(well src is irrelevant as its a 32bit rgba->depth converter so src is always 32bit ARGB and thus always aligned. dst is in thwi case 16bpp - and may or may not be aligned.)`
`01:58.09`	`TheMasterMind1`	`you tried my pcmcia?`
`01:58.26`	kergoth`bbl	`naw i havent touched pcmcia`
`01:58.33`	`TheMasterMind1`	`hmm`
`01:58.35`	kergoth`bbl	`i was working on suspend/resume, which is getting really frustrating`
`01:58.39`	`TheMasterMind1`	`try my ipk`
`01:58.40`	kergoth`bbl	`then watched some tv`
`01:58.40`	kergoth`bbl	`heh`
`01:58.43`	`TheMasterMind1`	`heh`
`01:58.45`	`warmi`	`that's what I thought - the only problem is when source is not aligned as well then you have to fall back to pixel by pixel copy`
`01:58.53`	`TheMasterMind1`	`yea, i'm getting pretty pissed off at touchscreen`
`01:59.14`	`hobbs`	`might help if I install SDL on the Z, too.`
`01:59.36`	`raster`	`warmi: in what? 16bpp blits? or rgba->16bpp converts?`
`01:59.51`	`warmi`	`if you keep source at 32 bit then you cannot do fast blits`
`02:00.12`	`warmi`	`for you have to do 32-> 16 transform`
`02:01.32`	`raster`	`yup`
`02:01.35`	`warmi`	`yeah, for 16 to 16 I am just gonna have 3 scenarios - both are aligned - then do multiple register copy , one is not aligned and the other is - then do fixup on non aligned and do fast copy, or both are not aligned then fall back on pixel by pixel copy`
`02:01.39`	`raster`	`correct`
`02:02.13`	`*** join/#zaurus badalex (~badalex@cpe-66-1-177-91.ut.sprintbbd.net)`
`02:02.19`	`raster`	`tho keeping at 32bpp means no loss of quality`
`02:02.24`	`raster`	`t loosk as good as 32bpp`
`02:02.30`	`raster`	`sicne the 16bpp converter does dithering`
`02:02.39`	`raster`	`i can blit in 32bpp space if i want`
`02:02.44`	`raster`	`and do everything there`
`02:02.50`	`tux_mike`	`gah`
`02:02.55`	`raster`	`and just dowen-convert when idle time is reached (and just down convert the deltas)`
`02:02.56`	`tux_mike`	`think think`
`02:03.06`	`warmi`	`tux_mike finally got my speakeasy problem resolved`
`02:03.25`	`warmi`	`I get download speeds at around 1290 as opposed to 600 before`
`02:03.27`	`warmi`	`it rocks`
`02:03.59`	`hobbs`	`hrm. this is different, at least. :)`
`02:03.59`	`TheMasterMind1`	`warmi: what was the problem?`
`02:04.05`	`tux_mike`	`cool`
`02:04.13`	`warmi`	`raster: if I were to do this I would simply load images beforehand - convert/dihter them to 16 and unload 32 bit versions`
`02:04.57`	`raster`	`warmi: depends what you do. i have to stay at 32bpp basicalyl cause i want to keep the alpha channel too and i re-composite all the time rebuilding the display from its primitives`
`02:04.58`	`hobbs`	`It's still bus erroring, but much later, after it's initialized. And I see graphics, so I'm guessing it's not that.`
`02:04.59`	`warmi`	`TheMasterMind1 : I don't know - some sort of misconfiguration on the part of Covad`
`02:05.25`	`warmi`	`this is a mess - your ISP is speakeasy - covad is below that and ameritech is the last mile provider or whatever it is called`
`02:05.44`	`hobbs`	`maybe there's something in the file loader that does unaligned access. Is there any easy way I could debug that?`
`02:05.56`	`warmi`	`raster: I am talking about games with set of prerendered graphics , some of them using transparency using key-coding`
`02:06.21`	`warmi`	`if I do alpha - I do single alpha for entire image - based on parameter`
`02:06.32`	`hobbs`	`hrm. maybe the first thing I should do is remove the "packed" declaration on all of these structs. :)`
`02:07.13`	`*** join/#zaurus coup (~gicarey@pc-80-195-190-30-gl.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`02:07.41`	`warmi`	`anyway, it is a good feeling to be on the net again - I guess I am addicted to this shit`
`02:07.42`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`02:08.23`	`*** part/#zaurus kendrick2 (~kendrick@dcn242-165.dcn.davis.ca.us)`
`02:08.44`	`raster`	`warmi: oh.. just 1bit transparency.. then you can afford to donate a single color of the 65536 you have to transparency :) but i need full lpha.. so when you are compositing you just stick to 32bit. its easier code-wise, the code to do its is justa s fast as trting some 12bit (ARGB4444) job, and the quality is infitely better. i have to say, speed-wise it isnt bad either.`
`02:09.04`	`warmi`	`I know - your stuff is very generic`
`02:09.48`	`warmi`	`yeah, I guess true alpha has its uses , but mostly for stuff like icons with shadows etc ..`
`02:09.55`	`warmi`	`or perhaps, drop shadow effects`
`02:10.12`	`raster`	`for games?`
`02:10.16`	`raster`	`clouds...`
`02:10.20`	`raster`	`overlay HUD's`
`02:10.23`	`warmi`	`for my purpose, I mostly need fading out effects which can be handled with single alpha value for entire image`
`02:10.29`	`raster`	`explosion sprites...`
`02:10.33`	`raster`	`fog`
`02:10.35`	`raster`	`mist`
`02:10.36`	`raster`	`rain`
`02:10.42`	`raster`	`i keep wanting`
`02:10.42`	`warmi`	`that's 3d stuff`
`02:10.45`	`raster`	`(one day)`
`02:10.49`	`warmi`	`I am talking about basic PDA games`
`02:10.50`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`02:11.07`	`raster`	`to do a shadow-of-the-beats like side-onscrolly with parallax all around - but with alpha channels for it all`
`02:11.12`	`raster`	`nah its not 3d`
`02:11.18`	`raster`	`rememebr shadow of the beast?`
`02:11.20`	`raster`	`agnoy?`
`02:11.24`	`raster`	`kgs?`
`02:11.27`	`raster`	`err`
`02:11.28`	`raster`	`agony`
`02:11.29`	`warmi`	`I remmber shadow of the beast ..`
`02:11.43`	`raster`	`reemebr all thsoe nice parallax scrolly bits ouside?`
`02:11.47`	`warmi`	`yeah Amiga scroller with 2 or 3 leves of scrolling`
`02:11.57`	`hobbs`	`know what would be a sweet game to clone (or, I've been tempted to contact the current maintainer, and ask him to scale it down and port)`
`02:12.01`	`hobbs`	`Raptor: Call of the Shadows`
`02:12.29`	`warmi`	`but that won't fly on the Zaurus - at least not yet - doing all that shading for one level of scrolling might work`
`02:12.34`	`warmi`	`but forget about 3 or 4`
`02:12.56`	`warmi`	`Raptor: wasn't that 1993-94 PC shareware game`
`02:13.04`	`hobbs`	`around that, yes.`
`02:13.06`	`warmi`	`some sort of clone of 1942 in space ?`
`02:13.20`	`hobbs`	`it's been ported to SDL by mking.com, and it's available on win32 and linux.`
`02:13.35`	`warmi`	`not so much in space but a science-fiction type with imaginary enemies etc ..`
`02:13.49`	`warmi`	`yeah, but no source code ?`
`02:13.53`	`hobbs`	`right. it's got spaceships and aircraft.`
`02:13.56`	`hobbs`	`no, no source.`
`02:14.15`	`raster`	`warmi: it can be done. i know it can.`
`02:14.18`	`warmi`	`yeah, I enjoyed that game a lot`
`02:14.39`	`raster`	`warmi: shadow of the beats onlyused 2 layesr of parallax at any time - and the sprites. thats it.`
`02:15.02`	`warmi`	`yeah but this was supported by hardware ... scrolling was based on Amiga hardware`
`02:15.13`	`warmi`	`here you will have to do full screen blit with every scroll`
`02:15.30`	`hobbs`	`hrm. now I'm getting a segfault, but not a bus error.`
`02:15.51`	`warmi`	`hobbs: is it a streight crosscompile ?`
`02:15.59`	`warmi`	`there could be many reasons ..`
`02:16.02`	`hobbs`	`warmi: almost.`
`02:16.10`	`raster`	`warmi: nah. screw the blit. i just recomposite the whole screen with each scroll :)`
`02:16.18`	`hobbs`	`warmi: I had to do the SDL_main thing manually, but the rest is unchanged.`
`02:16.23`	`raster`	`rebuild from base data.`
`02:16.29`	`*** join/#zaurus wyvern (~supergibs@dsl-65-184-82-141.telocity.com)`
`02:16.42`	`raster`	`i cant manage 50pfs`
`02:16.45`	`raster`	`but coudl do 10-15`
`02:16.49`	`warmi`	`I remember my app was working on X86 but not on ARm and the culprit was last of cast from int to bolean ( when reading variable with scanf)`
`02:16.50`	`raster`	`which is enugh...`
`02:17.26`	`warmi`	`raster: well, recompositing is the same as blit - only slower for you have to do many blits heh`
`02:18.49`	`warmi`	`anyway, you could get 20-30 or perhaps even 40 fps with 2 layer scrolling`
`02:19.00`	`warmi`	`asuming you weren't going crazy with alpha blits etc ..`
`02:19.33`	`warmi`	`hobbs : have you played Raptor on Linux ?`
`02:19.41`	`hobbs`	`warmi: yes.`
`02:19.48`	`warmi`	`does it use 320x200 resolution or does it play in a window ?`
`02:20.10`	`hobbs`	`warmi: fullscreen, but I think it's 640x480.`
`02:20.48`	`raster`	`warmi: ok. let me do a test.... hmmmm`
`02:21.01`	`raster`	`ok`
`02:21.02`	`warmi`	`oh so it must be doing scaling`
`02:21.06`	`raster`	`let me test 3 layers of parallax`
`02:21.20`	`warmi`	`for I rememeber the original game was running in 320x240 or something like that`
`02:21.43`	`raster`	`oh crap!`
`02:21.47`	`raster`	`my cross-dev env is at home`
`02:21.49`	`raster`	`poopie!`
`02:22.03`	`raster`	`ok`
`02:22.06`	`warmi`	`you are at work ?`
`02:22.06`	`hobbs`	`warmi: hrm... you might be right. and I might be wrong.`
`02:22.13`	`hobbs`	`warmi: if it was originally 320x240, that would be sweet.`
`02:22.17`	`raster`	`maybe i'll just get some speed tests on this 1.2ghz athlon...`
`02:22.58`	`warmi`	`no shit on athlon you can probably manage 16 layer scrolling with 50 fps at 640x480 heh`
`02:23.11`	`raster`	`i'll let you know...`
`02:23.11`	`raster`	`:)`
`02:23.19`	`warmi`	`hobbs: yeah , it would but without source it is useless`
`02:23.22`	`PenguinXR2`	`i cant get qpose to work`
`02:23.25`	`PenguinXR2`	`on opie/OZ`
`02:23.31`	`PenguinXR2`	`i get segfault...`
`02:23.34`	`PenguinXR2`	`http://www.dynamism.com/grast/index.shtml`
`02:23.35`	`PenguinXR2`	`http://www.dynamism.com/grast/index.shtml`
`02:23.38`	`PenguinXR2`	`oops`
`02:23.39`	`warmi`	`I couldn't get it to work on Sharp ...`
`02:23.46`	`PenguinXR2`	`really?`
`02:23.48`	`PenguinXR2`	`i did...`
`02:23.50`	`warmi`	`perhaps because I have only 5000d`
`02:23.54`	`PenguinXR2`	`yeah`
`02:23.56`	`hobbs`	`It worked okay for me on sharp. didn't try on OZ yet.`
`02:23.56`	`PenguinXR2`	`not enough RAMN`
`02:23.57`	`warmi`	`wich means only 32 MB`
`02:24.01`	`hobbs`	`warmi: that would do it, I bet.`
`02:24.58`	`PenguinXR2`	`does anyone know how to change keybindings on qtopiagnuboy?`
`02:25.04`	`PenguinXR2`	`so i can map hardware buttons...`
`02:25.10`	`warmi`	`crap, people don't realize that stuff running on LCD screen ( like on Zaurus or PPC) is going to always look darker`
`02:25.16`	`warmi`	`so many games are hardly visible`
`02:25.44`	`PenguinXR2`	`yeah`
`02:25.49`	`warmi`	`PenguinXR2 : where did you get that gnuboy from ?`
`02:26.01`	`hobbs`	`warmi: dayum, it's definitely 320x240 :)`
`02:26.06`	`PenguinXR2`	`i got it off OZ testing feed`
`02:26.15`	`PenguinXR2`	`or get it from the zaurus software index`
`02:26.25`	`PenguinXR2`	`search for "zaurus software" in google`
`02:26.31`	`PenguinXR2`	`it will be the 1st link that comes up`
`02:26.45`	`warmi`	`yeah, most likely from warmi.net`
`02:27.13`	`warmi`	`which is version I modified to run faster on the zaurus - so let me tell you: you can't change the bindings :-)`
`02:27.22`	`warmi`	`at least when I modified that code , you weren't able`
`02:27.25`	`warmi`	`it was hardcoded`
`02:27.26`	`PenguinXR2`	`oh ok...`
`02:27.29`	`warmi`	`perhaps there is a new version`
`02:27.47`	`PenguinXR2`	`j and l are kinda awkward for a and b`
`02:27.49`	`PenguinXR2`	`just a little`
`02:27.56`	`warmi`	`I remember someone sending me email mentioning that he was working on enhanced version ( option for chaning key bindings etc)`
`02:27.56`	`PenguinXR2`	`but otherwise it runs great!`
`02:28.00`	`warmi`	`but I don't remember details`
`02:28.05`	`PenguinXR2`	`07O00k00a00y`
`02:28.08`	`hobbs`	`anyone here have a decent set of debugging tools on their Z?`
`02:28.32`	`warmi`	`hobbs: well, strace and printf - that's the only thing I was using`
`02:28.39`	`hobbs`	`hehe. alright.`
`02:28.41`	`PenguinXR2`	`gdb is available`
`02:28.43`	`warmi`	`gdb wasn't running great on my 5000d`
`02:28.48`	`PenguinXR2`	`i used that to debug qpose`
`02:28.53`	`PenguinXR2`	`well sorta`
`02:29.06`	`hobbs`	`'cause I've got this here compiled with -g, was wondering if anyone else wanted to give it a shot, now that I have it almost doing something. :)`
`02:29.09`	`*** join/#zaurus LordDavon (davon@ptd-24-198-5-74.maine.rr.com)`
`02:29.13`	`hobbs`	`(of course, I have source too)`
`02:29.17`	`LordDavon`	`Hello everyone.`
`02:29.23`	`warmi`	`hi LordDavon`
`02:29.27`	`hobbs`	`llo`
`02:29.58`	`LordDavon`	`Well, I released MaxMiga today. ;)`
`02:30.15`	`LordDavon`	`zaurii.net gave me a host. :)`
`02:31.18`	`warmi`	`oh it is zaurII.net and not just zauri.net ..`
`02:31.21`	`warmi`	`that's why I got 404`
`02:31.29`	`TheMasterMind1`	`hey LordDavon`
`02:31.33`	`LordDavon`	`Hey TMM`
`02:31.45`	`TheMasterMind1`	`check out the new console logo and kernel progress?`
`02:31.45`	`warmi`	`hobbs: did you have a lot of problems with compiling SDL stuff for your zaurus ?`
`02:32.00`	`warmi`	`I tried it once and was having all kinds of problems`
`02:32.08`	`Leaves`	`is there an ICQ client (gui) for the zaurus? (just jabber? or is there a gaim port?)`
`02:32.10`	`LordDavon`	`TMM: No. I haven't had time to get anything done.`
`02:32.14`	`hobbs`	`warmi: only problems caused by my own stupidity.`
`02:32.19`	`hobbs`	`warmi: it took me a week to sort all of those out, though. :)`
`02:32.20`	`warmi`	`I have a lot of experience compiling stuff for the zaurus - it is just SDL was weird`
`02:32.24`	`LordDavon`	`brb... Bed time for the 3 year old.`
`02:32.34`	`warmi`	`complained about all kinds of shit, configuring scripts etc ..`
`02:32.47`	`hobbs`	`warmi: well, there's the whole deal with having to have a Qt widget first, and all. :)`
`02:33.19`	`warmi`	`I know , Neo mentioned something about this being problem when you forget to link with SDL-main or something like that`
`02:33.23`	`warmi`	`too much trouble for my taste`
`02:33.24`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`02:33.30`	`ld_kids`	`-lSDLmain`
`02:33.41`	`warmi`	`nah .. I did that but it still didn't work`
`02:33.56`	`ld_kids`	`Don't forget -lqpe -lqte ;)`
`02:33.58`	`badl`	`there are also some stripped SDL libs around, and won't link with -lSDLmain`
`02:33.58`	`warmi`	`perhaps my SDL install was busted`
`02:34.01`	`hobbs`	`warmi: it does some really evil voodoo with defines, it's easier to do it yourself imo.`
`02:34.07`	`ld_kids`	`m cb vn v g,bbmb`
`02:34.17`	`ld_kids`	`My daughter was typing too`
`02:34.17`	`badl`	`warmi: yes it was`
`02:34.32`	`ld_kids`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:34.35`	`warmi`	`ld_kids: hehe ... I figured`
`02:34.44`	`ld_kids`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:35.04`	`ld_kids`	`ACK! She just wont go brush her teeth.`
`02:35.05`	`PenguinXR2`	`where is the snes9x project for zaurus`
`02:35.09`	`PenguinXR2`	`i cant find it...`
`02:35.16`	`badl`	`warmi: I think the stripped file is libSDL.a -- there are some bad builds around`
`02:35.30`	`warmi`	`this stuff she types is almost like output we get from George :-)`
`02:35.44`	`ld_kids`	`warmi: Send me your link command and I will fix it for you. I do a bit of things in SDL... like MaxMame, MaxMess and MaxMiga. :)`
`02:35.50`	`TheMasterMind1`	`Leaves: feel free to port gtk to qt`
`02:35.58`	`hobbs`	`TheMasterMind1: lol.`
`02:36.15`	`warmi`	`ld_kids: I tried once but I gave up - since then I moved to my own ASM code - screw SDL`
`02:36.25`	`warmi`	`the only thing I will use from SDL is their mixer - very good piece of code`
`02:36.25`	`ld_kids`	`lol`
`02:36.36`	`ld_kids`	`brb... Time to brush those teeth of hers MYSELF!`
`02:36.46`	`hobbs`	`hrm... SIGSEGV coming from a memcpy, called by SDL_QWin::repaintRect`
`02:36.54`	`hobbs`	`(I suck at reading this gdb output)`
`02:37.21`	`TheMasterMind1`	`did you bt?`
`02:37.27`	`hobbs`	`yeah. that's where I got that.`
`02:37.30`	`warmi`	`well, then obvously this memcpy is either overewriting some memory ( the blit is too large) or the source is bad`
`02:37.32`	`TheMasterMind1`	`k`
`02:37.45`	`warmi`	`but my bet would be on the size parameters of repaintRect()`
`02:37.50`	`TheMasterMind1`	`ld_kids: check out www.openzaurus.org news items`
`02:37.52`	`hobbs`	`warmi: yeah, I just don't know how to get more info. :)`
`02:38.02`	`warmi`	`or perhaps something with the fact that zaurus screen is rotated`
`02:38.13`	`warmi`	`oh , you are using SDL - so that shouldn't matter`
`02:38.18`	`warmi`	`SDL does rotating internally`
`02:38.20`	`hobbs`	`whether the memcpy is getting a null pointer, or the size is bogus, or the alignment is wrong, or what. :)`
`02:38.32`	`PenguinXR2`	`i love you mastermind!`
`02:38.35`	`PenguinXR2`	`good work!`
`02:38.38`	`warmi`	`alignmet won't matter - memcpy knows how to deal with that`
`02:38.45`	`TheMasterMind1`	`PenguinXR2: heh, kergoth's doing most of the work`
`02:38.48`	`warmi`	`remember , memcpy does copy based on bytes`
`02:38.50`	`TheMasterMind1`	`and pnis and beattie and others`
`02:38.52`	`PenguinXR2`	`oh`
`02:38.57`	`warmi`	`but I bet it is size`
`02:38.57`	`TheMasterMind1`	`but its mainly kergoth`
`02:39.01`	`PenguinXR2`	`thank you all!`
`02:39.02`	`TheMasterMind1`	`i'm trying to do what i can also :)`
`02:39.04`	`PenguinXR2`	`OZ is great!`
`02:39.09`	`TheMasterMind1`	`i agree`
`02:39.19`	`hobbs`	`TheMasterMind1: hah. so after the hacks finally get into 2.4 and 2.5, you're not even going to be using an incompatible usbnet anyway?`
`02:39.31`	`*** join/#zaurus caffeinex36 (~caffeine@bgp522997bgs.ebrnsw01.nj.comcast.net)`
`02:39.48`	`TheMasterMind1`	`hobbs: heh, probably not. it depends, we have to do some testing and see which is better. its nice to have a choice though`
`02:39.54`	`TheMasterMind1`	`we'll probably include both`
`02:40.03`	`TheMasterMind1`	`i bet its going to end up usbd for the windows users and usbf for the linux`
`02:40.11`	`PenguinXR2`	`is latest kernel available for playing with?`
`02:40.22`	`hobbs`	`oh, true, the windows driver is already there in the box.`
`02:40.42`	`TheMasterMind1`	`PenguinXR2: you can grab a copy and compile it`
`02:40.43`	`warmi`	`I remember like 6 months ago it used to be only kergoth working on OZ - these days I see theMasterMind is doing a lot of stuff there`
`02:40.47`	`PenguinXR2`	`k`
`02:40.52`	`warmi`	`or at least knows everything about OZ`
`02:40.54`	`warmi`	`heh`
`02:41.00`	`hobbs`	`we wouldn't want to expect windows to support the _standard_ version of the protocol. :)`
`02:41.12`	`TheMasterMind1`	`hobbs: yea, and i'm not too sure about he windows driver that works with usbf. if its better than one we're using now with usbd, we'll switch to that`
`02:41.41`	`hobbs`	`I see. Well, cool anyway. :)`
`02:41.54`	`TheMasterMind1`	`indeed`
`02:43.47`	`PenguinXR2`	`ok, i know this is dumb...but where do i get kernel source?`
`02:44.01`	`PenguinXR2`	`i looked in /official`
`02:44.17`	`PenguinXR2`	`i suppose it would not be there...`
`02:44.30`	`TheMasterMind1`	`PenguinXR2: you need to get bitkeeper`
`02:44.32`	`TheMasterMind1`	`ibot bitkeeper`
`02:44.37`		`i guess bitkeeper is at http://www.bitkeeper.com/ or at http://www.bitmover.com/ or hosted trees at http://www.bkbits.net/ or like cvs and subversion, but its non-opensource.. but its really good, even linus uses it to develop the kernel!`
`02:44.43`	`PenguinXR2`	`oh yes`
`02:44.47`	`TheMasterMind1`	`PenguinXR2: do you have a cross compiler?`
`02:44.52`	`PenguinXR2`	`no`
`02:44.58`	`TheMasterMind1`	`ok, grab one of those too.`
`02:45.01`	`PenguinXR2`	`but i can find one easily`
`02:45.02`	`TheMasterMind1`	`ibot oz toolchain`
`02:45.04`		`hmm... oz toolchain is http://www.openzaurus.org/official/toolchain/, or mkdir /usr/local/arm and extract them in there.`
`02:45.04`	`PenguinXR2`	`07O00k00a00y`
`02:45.07`	`PenguinXR2`	`ah`
`02:45.08`	`PenguinXR2`	`thank`
`02:45.10`	`TheMasterMind1`	`get the 2.95.3 one`
`02:45.10`	`PenguinXR2`	`you`
`02:45.11`	`raster`	`warmi: 240x320 157fps with 3 layers`
`02:45.13`	`PenguinXR2`	`07O00k00a00y`
`02:45.31`	`hobbs`	`raster: dayum, you can't even see half of those frames. >:)`
`02:45.41`	`TheMasterMind1`	`and then run: bk clone http://linux-cl.bkbits.net/linux-arm-2.4-collie; cd linux-arm-2.4-collie; bk -r edit -q; cp arch/arm/def-configs/collie .config; make menuconfig`
`02:46.03`	`warmi`	`raster: is that on the Athlon ?`
`02:46.04`	`TheMasterMind1`	`actually, you don't really need the menuconfig. make oldconfig; make zImage; make modules would work`
`02:46.15`	`TheMasterMind1`	`PenguinXR2: are you actually going to be developing with the kernel?`
`02:46.36`	`TheMasterMind1`	`PenguinXR2: you're probably better off downloading one of the zImages and initrds one of us has compiled if you're not`
`02:46.44`	`PenguinXR2`	`umm`
`02:46.50`	`PenguinXR2`	`i want to play with new featurs`
`02:46.55`	`*** join/#zaurus CrossBow (~john@da001d0293.stl-mo.osd.concentric.net)`
`02:47.03`	`PenguinXR2`	`im a learning linux person`
`02:47.04`	`raster`	`hobbs: yup :)`
`02:47.07`	`PenguinXR2`	`im past newbie`
`02:47.09`	`raster`	`warmi: yeah. on the ath.`
`02:47.14`	`TheMasterMind1`	`PenguinXR2: heh, ok. do you have a cf writer?`
`02:47.14`	`PenguinXR2`	`but no expert by any means`
`02:47.17`	`angry`	`anyone know what good permissions would be for games-bsd's tetris high score file?>`
`02:47.21`	`warmi`	`raster: I think it should be faster`
`02:47.23`	`[DrEvil]`	`damn qwest`
`02:47.25`	`angry`	`right now i'm getting read/write permission denied`
`02:47.26`	`PenguinXR2`	`oh yes`
`02:47.27`	`raster`	`warmi: i get 55fps with 16 layers (all alpha blended)`
`02:47.30`	`PenguinXR2`	`i forgot about that...`
`02:47.31`	`*** join/#zaurus bipolar (bflong@ben-n-rhi.msns.flt.ptd.net)`
`02:47.38`	`PenguinXR2`	`i will need one of those`
`02:47.40`	`PenguinXR2`	`if i goof`
`02:47.57`	`warmi`	`I still have a demo I wrote for Watcom C which does scalling and rotating at 640x320 ( 8 bit) (rotoscop) and these days it runs at like 300 frames per second`
`02:47.57`	`TheMasterMind1`	`PenguinXR2: if the new kernel screws up, and it probably will, you'll be screwed`
`02:47.58`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`02:47.58`	`hobbs`	`PenguinXR2: that or a spare CF card (just write your ticket to normalcy ahead of time)`
`02:48.03`	`PenguinXR2`	`yeah`
`02:48.10`	`warmi`	`64x480`
`02:48.16`	`PenguinXR2`	`thanks for knocking some sense in me!`
`02:48.21`	`hobbs`	`but a writer is safer. :)`
`02:48.24`	`PenguinXR2`	`ill wait till i get another CF card`
`02:48.35`	`raster`	`warmi: yeah. i have a 32 texture mapping engine that did 120fps on my P120 in 320x240 with guraud shading, lens flare and textures :)`
`02:48.54`	`warmi`	`raster: so there yoy go . on the ZAurus you would be able to get like 3 layers with ocassional alpha blended object here and there`
`02:49.07`	`TheMasterMind1`	`heheh`
`02:49.11`	`PenguinXR2`	`i cant seem to find a CF writer for Type II at any local store`
`02:49.13`	`TheMasterMind1`	`use the skiffs`
`02:49.19`	`TheMasterMind1`	`raster: can't ssh in?`
`02:49.27`	`hobbs`	`PenguinXR2: I got a lame one for $9 at a Computer Renaissance.`
`02:49.32`	`warmi`	`raster: is that engine running on floats or fixed point ?`
`02:49.34`	`raster`	`warmi: yup. if i can manage 16 at 50fps... i can mange 3 or so (and wiht some imagination it can loog like 10 layers like beast did)) but WITH alpha blending.`
`02:49.36`	`PenguinXR2`	`pcmcia or USB`
`02:49.41`	`raster`	`TheMasterMind1: too many hops.`
`02:49.46`	`hobbs`	`anyone see the pretty "clouds in front of the sun" simulation Hugo Elias did for the Enlightened Programming contest way back when?`
`02:49.51`	`hobbs`	`PenguinXR2: USB`
`02:49.54`	`PenguinXR2`	`k`
`02:49.56`	`TheMasterMind1`	`PenguinXR2: for type2? what do you mean? why type2?`
`02:50.16`	`PenguinXR2`	`i have a 144 meg type II CF card`
`02:50.20`	`raster`	`warmi: the geoemtry was floats - i was tonly testing wiht a few dozen polys... but the rasteriser wa sall fixed point 16bpp optimised.`
`02:50.22`	`hobbs`	`actually, it wasn't $9. I don't know where that came from. :)`
`02:50.22`	`PenguinXR2`	`its thicker`
`02:50.33`	`TheMasterMind1`	`PenguinXR2: really? hmm, interesting`
`02:50.34`	`PenguinXR2`	`its about 1-3 mm thicker`
`02:50.47`	`TheMasterMind1`	`i have a good ole 128meg type1`
`02:50.52`	`TheMasterMind1`	`i thought they were all type1`
`02:50.52`	`PenguinXR2`	`yeah`
`02:50.57`	`PenguinXR2`	`i wish i did`
`02:51.01`	`warmi`	`is that stuff like open source ?`
`02:51.03`	`warmi`	`heeh`
`02:51.05`	`hobbs`	`yeah, I never knew there was TypeII storage.`
`02:51.09`	`PenguinXR2`	`i bought it for my old mobilepro`
`02:51.23`	`PenguinXR2`	`but it only had type 1 so, its been collecting dust till i got my Z`
`02:51.23`	`hobbs`	`TypeII comms devices, sure, but storage, that's odd. :)`
`02:51.48`	`hobbs`	`(oops. and microdrives)`
`02:51.51`	`PenguinXR2`	`yeah`
`02:51.56`	`PenguinXR2`	`mmmm microdrives!`
`02:52.15`	`PenguinXR2`	`actually i'd be scared to use my microdrive...`
`02:52.22`	`hobbs`	`heat?`
`02:52.28`	`PenguinXR2`	`id be afraid id mess it up...and they are really expensivE!`
`02:52.34`	`hobbs`	`that too. >:)`
`02:52.39`	`warmi`	`oh stupid Webalizer reporst Internet Explorer as "Micro$oft Internet Exploder"`
`02:52.42`	`warmi`	`how immature ..`
`02:52.52`	`PenguinXR2`	`haha`
`02:53.04`	`warmi`	`what is "Bilbo/2.3b-UNIX"`
`02:53.10`	`warmi`	`is that a browser for Unix ?`
`02:53.24`	`hobbs`	`you'd guess. that or just a custom string. :)`
`02:54.20`	`warmi`	`but there you go .. my site is mostly Unix/Zaurus oriented`
`02:54.33`	`warmi`	`and yet I still get 70 % users using IE`
`02:54.41`	`warmi`	`and only 23 % using netscape`
`02:54.46`	`PenguinXR2`	`i use XP`
`02:54.47`	`warmi`	`unless they are lying..`
`02:54.49`	`PenguinXR2`	`as client OS`
`02:54.53`	`PenguinXR2`	`cuz im a gamer...`
`02:54.53`	`hobbs`	`yeah, there are less browsers claiming to be IE than there used to be.`
`02:55.07`	`bipolar`	`warmi: Konq can lie :)`
`02:55.08`	`PenguinXR2`	`transgaming is doing well, but not well enough for my needs :)`
`02:55.11`	`warmi`	`well, I use Windows 2000 for casual stuff`
`02:55.20`	`warmi`	`and Linux only for dev but still`
`02:55.27`	`raster`	`ooh`
`02:55.34`	`warmi`	`looks like most Zaurus users are not Linux users or not casual Linux users`
`02:55.35`	`raster`	`i lost my qtopia test program`
`02:55.36`	`raster`	`poopie`
`02:56.45`	`TheMasterMind1`	`MSpin: you here?`
`02:57.52`	`warmi`	`bipolar: yeah, I know ... I configured my Konq to lie as well`
`02:57.53`	`MSpin`	`TheMasterMind1: sorta`
`02:57.55`	`warmi`	`heh`
`02:58.02`	`MSpin`	`oh, hey pengis`
`02:58.40`	`MSpin`	`oops, that isn't the PenguinX I know:)`
`02:58.40`	`MSpin`	`hehe`
`02:58.51`	`TheMasterMind1`	`MSpin: just a heads up, kismet-qt doesn't work kismet2.8 and it doesn't compile with the new kernel because we changed the buzzer stuff around.. but i think we're going to make a sharp compatibility module soon so that's not really a problem ;)`
`02:59.28`	`MSpin`	`kismet-qt doesn't compile? or kismet doesn't?`
`02:59.29`	`warmi`	`raster: you have Zaurus 5500 ?`
`02:59.38`	`raster`	`warmi: nup. the 500d`
`02:59.40`	`raster`	`err`
`02:59.41`	`raster`	`5000d`
`02:59.42`	`raster`	`:)`
`03:00.01`	`TheMasterMind1`	`MSpin: kismet-qt doesn't because the headers are missing some SHARP_BUZZER defines, but thats not a problem with kismet-qt its a problem with our new kernel sources`
`03:00.03`	`warmi`	`well, you got that for free anyway - so can't really complain, right ?`
`03:00.07`	`TheMasterMind1`	`but kismet also doesn't compile`
`03:00.08`	`TheMasterMind1`	`heh`
`03:00.32`	`MSpin`	`ahh ok`
`03:00.33`	`MSpin`	`2.4.19?`
`03:00.36`	`TheMasterMind1`	`yes`
`03:00.38`	`MSpin`	`ahh`
`03:00.47`	`MSpin`	`I'll see if I can look at this tonight`
`03:00.49`	`warmi`	`heh`
`03:00.50`	`TheMasterMind1`	`kismet isn't compiling cuz onyx forgot to push a patch`
`03:00.54`	`warmi`	`I got mine for free as well`
`03:01.07`	`raster`	`warmi: nup. and its useful for development and testing.`
`03:01.21`	`raster`	`warmi: i probably wouldnt have bothered doign a qtopia port otherwise`
`03:01.44`	`warmi`	`I used to use it for testing my code for the Zaurus exclusively - these days I actually use it as a PDA`
`03:01.45`	`TheMasterMind1`	`i want a free c700`
`03:01.46`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`03:01.57`	`warmi`	`play MP3 - keep my schedule . stuff like that`
`03:02.05`	`TheMasterMind1`	`warmi: as a pda? you're kidding right?`
`03:02.05`	`raster`	`mainly play mp3`
`03:02.08`	`LordDavon`	`TMM: Me too. What a great MaxMame device.`
`03:02.10`	`raster`	`and keep addressbook for me`
`03:02.11`	`raster`	`:)`
`03:02.21`	`TheMasterMind1`	`LordDavon: ;)`
`03:02.27`	`*** join/#zaurus kb9 (~harcore@204.246.220.231)`
`03:02.40`	`TheMasterMind1`	`ah, the news page looks so much better now`
`03:02.45`	`warmi`	`TheMasterMind1 : no, it works for me - I am not advanced PDA user , never owned one before`
`03:02.46`	`TheMasterMind1`	`with spacing between each li`
`03:02.48`	`warmi`	`but it does work`
`03:02.51`	`treke\|home`	`TheMasterMind1: I know it sounds amazing, but the zaurus pim aps actually works for some people :)`
`03:02.57`	`warmi`	`I like it better than my ipaq`
`03:03.20`	`TheMasterMind1`	`treke\|home: i wouldn't know, i've never even tried one of em`
`03:03.25`	`LordDavon`	`Oh I called BigBoss today. Sent him the conversion file. He is already testing the tck apps on the C700. TheKompany is already ahead of the game!`
`03:03.33`	`warmi`	`as I said, I am not big about alarms etc .. just keep some stuff so I can always look it up`
`03:03.46`	`hobbs`	`I still miss DateBk5. snif`
`03:03.52`	`TheMasterMind1`	`LordDavon: nice. the english conversion is just one file?`
`03:04.05`	`warmi`	`LordDavon : you are from denamism.com ?`
`03:04.13`	`warmi`	`dynamism.com that is`
`03:04.14`	`raster`	`oh what happened here`
`03:04.43`	`warmi`	`hobbs : do you code`
`03:04.44`	`LordDavon`	`warmi: No. I am from nvmax.com and maxprojects.zaurii.net`
`03:04.44`	`warmi`	`?`
`03:05.08`	`raster`	`ooh`
`03:05.12`	`TheMasterMind1`	`i found out i'm rich today. i have 3k in the bank`
`03:05.14`	`hobbs`	`warmi: occasionally and badly. (Actually, yes. Various stuff in perl)`
`03:05.14`	`raster`	`what happened somehting stripped my libfreetype`
`03:05.17`	`raster`	`poopie pants`
`03:05.22`	`raster`	`MEGA POOPIE!`
`03:05.22`	`LordDavon`	`BigBoss is a pretty cool guy. Glad I called. He was fun to talk to.`
`03:05.29`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`03:05.34`	`hobbs`	`warmi: I know C, but I rarely do useful things with it. :)`
`03:05.36`	`warmi`	`that something must have been you`
`03:05.38`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`03:05.54`	`warmi`	`hobbs : well, learn C++ and you can create DateBK version yourself`
`03:05.56`	`LordDavon`	`warmi: I do not work for Dynamism. I am just working on the conversion project and they are supporting it.`
`03:06.01`	`warmi`	`using sqlite it would be extremely easy`
`03:06.20`	`warmi`	`LordDavon : ah ok- conversion of what ? C700 to english version`
`03:06.26`	`hobbs`	`warmi: yeah, I know, I was considering it.`
`03:06.27`	`warmi`	`?`
`03:06.38`	`hobbs`	`warmi: actually, the part that I'm worst at is dealing with the GUI.`
`03:06.46`	`TheMasterMind1`	`c > c++`
`03:06.48`	`LordDavon`	`warmi: Yes, the C700/`
`03:06.51`	`warmi`	`oh come on .. that's easy`
`03:06.55`	`warmi`	`easpecially with qt - peanuts`
`03:07.13`	`warmi`	`LordDavon :so you guys are testing various apps with C700 right ?`
`03:07.27`	`LordDavon`	`warmi: Only the ones that I have.`
`03:07.40`	`warmi`	`the hard part was to find suitable file based database that would run ont he zaurus`
`03:07.47`	`warmi`	`and sqlite fits that one perfectly`
`03:07.54`	`warmi`	`LordDavon : maybe you can tell me ..`
`03:08.06`	`warmi`	`I know c700 can emulate 200x320`
`03:08.07`	`LordDavon`	`warmi: MaxMame, MaxMess and MaxMiga all work great. Is there any other applications for the zaurus that people would even want??? ;)`
`03:08.25`	`*** join/#zaurus Com[Plex] (ANGRYMAN@65.217.160.228)`
`03:08.31`	`warmi`	`does it simply use only portion of the screen ? or does it scale display to fit 640x480 ?`
`03:08.41`	`LordDavon`	`warmi: Yes. It can switch to 320x240/240x320 mode.`
`03:08.51`	`warmi`	`but is it hardware mode ?`
`03:08.52`	`LordDavon`	`warmi: It scales.`
`03:08.54`	`raster`	`ok`
`03:08.56`	`warmi`	`ah ok`
`03:08.57`	`raster`	`rescue this libfreeype.so`
`03:09.09`	`warmi`	`is it done in hardware ?`
`03:09.21`	`warmi`	`or at the framebuffer level ?`
`03:09.24`	`Cloudchaser_`	`LordDavon: there's alot of applications for the z people would want :)`
`03:09.31`	`warmi`	`cause, some of my stuff hits framebuffer directly`
`03:09.54`	`LordDavon`	`warmi: Yes, the framebuffer apps should work fine.`
`03:10.03`	`raster`	`eh?`
`03:10.09`	`warmi`	`I need to at least touch that c700 and see how it feels ..`
`03:10.10`	`raster`	`rico suave`
`03:10.15`	`warmi`	`it certainly looks cool`
`03:10.18`	`LordDavon`	`Cloudchaser_:Really??? There are other apps??? :)`
`03:10.25`	`raster`	`why does this lbifreetype have no symbols`
`03:10.27`	`raster`	`BOOBIE!`
`03:10.48`	`warmi`	`raster:perhaps cause you run stripe on it ?`
`03:10.59`	`*** part/#zaurus Hellaenergy (~Hellaener@hellaweb.com)`
`03:11.09`	`raster`	`but it works!`
`03:11.55`	`warmi`	`LordDavon : your MaX apps - they work with SDL , framebuffer or X only ?`
`03:11.57`	`Cloudchaser_`	`hehe of course there are LordDavon.. you think the zaurus has all the apps people would want?`
`03:12.16`	`Cloudchaser_`	`what about mapping/route planning?`
`03:12.28`	`raster`	`it the .so has no symbosl runtime linking wiht ld.so.conf wouldnt work`
`03:12.36`	`warmi`	`Cloudchaser_ : yeah ,something like mapquest.com only on your PDA`
`03:12.42`	`LordDavon`	`warmi: They work SDL. Other apps like Zmame and the old NVeeMess work also.`
`03:12.55`	`Cloudchaser_`	`warmi: yes there's a company.. mapopolis`
`03:13.07`	`Cloudchaser_`	`has maps, route planning on pda, works with gps too`
`03:13.13`	`Cloudchaser_`	`but stands alone also`
`03:13.22`	`LordDavon`	`Cloudchaser_: I haven't heard of MaxRouting. Is it on the MaxProjects web page? ;)`
`03:13.32`	`Cloudchaser_`	`excuse me?`
`03:13.35`	`warmi`	`Cloudchaser_ : PocketPC and Palm only :-(`
`03:13.45`	`Cloudchaser_`	`warmi: yes i know ;( i emailed them`
`03:13.46`	`raster`	`nopoooooooooooooooo`
`03:13.52`	`raster`	`my crossdev env is fixored`
`03:13.54`	`hobbs`	`LordDavon: how about getting us a MaxNES that actually pulls off 60fps. Or at least 50. Or at least, 30 with frameskip.`
`03:13.57`	`raster`	`err fuxored`
`03:14.00`	`raster`	`err poopied`
`03:14.01`	`hobbs`	`LordDavon: I'm obviously too incompetent for this. :)`
`03:14.09`	`Cloudchaser_`	`LordDavon: i think i'm missing something here..`
`03:14.22`	`Cloudchaser_`	`are you saying people would only want your applications and none other?`
`03:15.00`	`warmi`	`hobbs : how much does it pull now ?`
`03:15.01`	`LordDavon`	`hobbs: I am working on it. :)`
`03:15.17`	`warmi`	`Cloudchaser_ : heeh ..that is precisely what he was saying :-)`
`03:15.34`	`hobbs`	`warmi: zFceu tops out at 29fps.`
`03:15.35`	`Cloudchaser_`	`oh silly me`
`03:15.37`	`LordDavon`	`Cloudchaser_: Just goofin' with you. Although, I tend to only produce the apps I want.`
`03:15.57`	`Cloudchaser_`	`ah well then don't bother asking what other people would want i guess`
`03:16.18`	`hobbs`	`warmi: it has code for frameskip in the source, but it's broken. I spent a while trying to clean it up, but I'm too lame for that, too. :)`
`03:16.23`	`warmi`	`hobbs : that's not bad`
`03:16.36`	`LordDavon`	`hobbs: I am working on a Genesis EMU, and some others.`
`03:16.37`	`warmi`	`30 fps is all you need for a fluid animation`
`03:16.45`	`hobbs`	`warmi: it would be "not bad" except that the games play at half speed, too. Everything is tied to the framerate.`
`03:16.50`	`warmi`	`LordDavon are you planning to create ipks out of your apps ?`
`03:17.05`	`warmi`	`hobbs : oh .. I get it`
`03:17.09`	`warmi`	`bad coding then :-)`
`03:17.17`	`LordDavon`	`warmi: I may with MaxMiga. The others are too large to define how someone should use them.`
`03:17.25`	`hobbs`	`warmi: that's the way the real hardware works, though.`
`03:17.27`	`warmi`	`but , yeah , skipping frames is the only solution here`
`03:17.46`	`warmi`	`too large ?`
`03:17.48`	`warmi`	`3 MBs ?`
`03:17.49`	`warmi`	`heeh`
`03:18.08`	`LordDavon`	`7MB for MaxMess and 13MB for MaxMame.`
`03:18.15`	`hobbs`	`warmi: the sound hardware and etc is actually driven by the same timer that pushes scanlines. It's interesting design. :)`
`03:18.28`	`LordDavon`	`Oh... I compiled new versions yesterday. heh...`
`03:18.49`	`warmi`	`hobbs: uh .. yeah, well - then you better make sure your stuff is running at similar speed as the original`
`03:18.57`	`hobbs`	`warmi: hehe. :)`
`03:19.00`	`warmi`	`how fast was the original hardware - CPU wise ?`
`03:19.19`	`hobbs`	`16MHz 6502? or was it 12?`
`03:19.46`	`warmi`	`LordDavon : yeah, I managed to create 5 MB ipkg once - but then I had to use various tricks to make it work ...`
`03:19.48`	`hobbs`	`anyway, the words is that PocketNES goes full speed on wince devices with the sa1100, so we should be able to do the same. :)`
`03:19.48`	`*** join/#zaurus hunterdie (~kb3hag@pcp02465537pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)`
`03:19.54`	`*** join/#zaurus Cloudchaser (~Cloudchas@ool-182d0f58.dyn.optonline.net)`
`03:20.00`	`warmi`	`stupid ipkg on the zauurs requires 2x disk space to install something`
`03:20.29`	`warmi`	`hobbs : yeah, I bet the emulation loop is optimized for the ARM cpu ( asm code)`
`03:20.30`	`TheMasterMind1`	`hehe`
`03:20.41`	`TheMasterMind1`	`warmi: i'm gonig to fix that someday`
`03:21.02`	`hobbs`	`warmi: yeah, almost definitely.`
`03:21.09`	`hobbs`	`warmi: and that's another skill I lack completely. :)`
`03:21.14`	`TheMasterMind1`	`hehe`
`03:21.15`	`warmi`	`TheMasterMind1 : yeah, I guess I could say that to install this package you need 2x as much disk space - but that's just stupid :-)`
`03:21.32`	`warmi`	`what I did was package my database in gzipped format`
`03:21.33`	`TheMasterMind1`	`heh`
`03:21.44`	`raster`	`ARGH!`
`03:21.51`	`warmi`	`and then unzipp it when my app run for the first time`
`03:21.58`	`TheMasterMind1`	`warmi: heh`
`03:22.03`	`warmi`	`well, it works`
`03:22.07`	`TheMasterMind1`	`;0)`
`03:22.23`	`warmi`	`and mind you - I could't do it using post install scripts ( they didn't work well)`
`03:22.30`	`raster`	`anyone got a working libfreetype.so form ARM that has symbols?`
`03:22.31`	`TheMasterMind1`	`i wonder how a gameboy advanced emulator would run on the Z`
`03:22.39`	`raster`	`that i can just steal for building?`
`03:22.46`	`TheMasterMind1`	`probably really really badly seeing as gnuboy doesnt' work that well and its for normal gameboy right`
`03:22.51`	`warmi`	`raster: long shot :-)`
`03:22.53`	`hobbs`	`TheMasterMind1: it'd be interesting, alright.`
`03:23.01`	`warmi`	`go to debian site and look for it in debian arm distro`
`03:23.04`	`hobbs`	`TheMasterMind1: but the gba is an sa1100, isn't it?`
`03:23.05`	`PenguinXR2`	`theres one for pocketpc`
`03:23.08`	`PenguinXR2`	`it runs fine`
`03:23.13`	`PenguinXR2`	`to my knowledge`
`03:23.16`	`raster`	`/opt/Embedix/tools/arm-linux/lib/libfreetype.so: could not read symbols: Invalid operation`
`03:23.17`	`raster`	`collect2: ld returned 1 exit status`
`03:23.19`	`raster`	`[- 2:28PM ~/C/evas -]nm /opt/Embedix/tools/arm-linux/lib/libfreetype.so`
`03:23.20`	`raster`	`nm: /opt/Embedix/tools/arm-linux/lib/libfreetype.so: no symbols`
`03:23.21`	`raster`	`:(`
`03:23.36`	`TheMasterMind1`	`hobbs: not sure`
`03:23.42`	`warmi`	`hobbs: GBA CPU is least importand here - what counts is their custom hardware`
`03:23.47`	`warmi`	`you have to emulate all that in software`
`03:23.58`	`TheMasterMind1`	`hmm, anyone remember who got zethereal to compile?`
`03:24.07`	`hobbs`	`warmi: yeah, I know, but at least you don't have to virtualize most of the cpu. :)`
`03:24.25`	`hobbs`	`TheMasterMind1: I remember reading in the specs that it was 206MHz, and I don't know of anything else with such a silly speed.`
`03:25.04`	`warmi`	`does PocketPC GBA emulator run well ?`
`03:25.08`	`warmi`	`I kind of doubt it`
`03:27.09`	`warmi`	`hobbs : GBA runs on 32-bit ARM7TDMI 16.7 Mhz CPU`
`03:27.27`	`hobbs`	`hrm.`
`03:27.41`	`PenguinXR2`	`GBA is somewhat similar to SNES`
`03:27.44`	`PenguinXR2`	`i think...`
`03:27.48`	`hobbs`	`yeah.`
`03:28.55`	`PenguinXR2`	`gentoo linux comes out tomorrow!`
`03:29.00`	`PenguinXR2`	`1.4_rc_2`
`03:29.01`	`hobbs`	`the SNES was the 65816, though (heh, I guess that's a logical progression from the NES' 6502)`
`03:29.03`	`PenguinXR2`	`to be exact`
`03:29.21`	`hobbs`	`65c816, that is.`
`03:30.19`	`badl`	`if the GBA has a 16.7MHz CPU and the Zaurus a 206Mhz -- by my calculations the gameboy emulator should be (206/16.7) 12.3 times as fast playing games! ;)`
`03:30.40`	`PenguinXR2`	`umm...not quite`
`03:30.44`	`hobbs`	`riiiight.`
`03:30.51`	`badl`	`haha`
`03:31.05`	`*** join/#zaurus noda (~noda@modemcable136.245-202-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca)`
`03:31.06`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`03:31.10`	`badl`	`:D`
`03:31.12`	`kergoth`	`hey guys`
`03:31.16`	`hobbs`	`warmi: oh, btw, the NES was a 6502 running at 1.79MHz.`
`03:31.21`	`LordDavon`	`Heya kergoth.`
`03:31.24`	`hobbs`	`warmi: you would think that we could pull that off in software.`
`03:31.25`	`hobbs`	`llo kergoth`
`03:31.26`	`PenguinXR2`	`yay 1.79mhz!`
`03:31.27`	`kergoth`	`hey LordDavon, how goes it`
`03:31.36`	`LordDavon`	`Long day`
`03:31.54`	`raster`	`ok ok`
`03:31.58`	`raster`	`my brain farted`
`03:32.03`	`PenguinXR2`	`A Furby has more cpu power than the NES!`
`03:32.05`	`PenguinXR2`	`haha`
`03:32.05`	`warmi`	`hobbs : that just like Atari XL and C-64`
`03:32.14`	`LordDavon`	`Well, I am about to test out MaxMame version 1.3. Recompiled with gcc 3.2 (cvs).`
`03:32.17`	`raster`	`why is every damn libfreetype.so i can find withotu symbols so you cant compile against it?`
`03:32.37`	`PenguinXR2`	`ls`
`03:32.51`	`kergoth`	`raster: build one`
`03:32.58`	`raster`	`BUT the lib works runtime...`
`03:33.02`	`raster`	`hmm`
`03:33.05`	`raster`	`toomuch effort`
`03:33.08`	`hobbs`	`warmi: and pretty close to a ][`
`03:33.11`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`03:33.13`	`raster`	`ALL i wanted was to test parallax s crolling`
`03:33.26`	`raster`	`i'll need to dl the src and cross-compile`
`03:33.28`	`raster`	`oh fun!`
`03:33.29`	`raster`	`::)`
`03:33.35`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`03:33.41`	`raster`	`and all iw anted is to rebuild and test my mods`
`03:33.50`	`raster`	`to see the speed of 16 layars of parallax on my z`
`03:33.51`	`raster`	`:(`
`03:34.00`	`raster`	`i think i b0rked my crossdev env`
`03:34.06`	`raster`	`somehow`
`03:34.10`	`raster`	`and cant get it back`
`03:35.18`	`raster`	`though....`
`03:35.21`	`raster`	`this worked before`
`03:35.37`	`raster`	`ok`
`03:35.38`	`noda`	`Man, if I had a penny for every time I said that :)`
`03:35.42`	`raster`	`now i'm going bonkers`
`03:36.01`	`raster`	`it works with libc`
`03:36.11`	`raster`	`and nm reports no symbols`
`03:36.13`	`raster`	`grrr`
`03:36.46`	`TheMasterMind1`	`noda: !`
`03:36.55`	`TheMasterMind1`	`noda: i want to tell you something.. i forget what`
`03:37.03`	`TheMasterMind1`	`oh right. the news thing.. i fixed that already. nm`
`03:37.06`	`noda`	`TheMasterMind1: That I still haven't fixed something on the website...`
`03:37.08`	`noda`	`What?`
`03:37.12`	`TheMasterMind1`	`the li's on the news page needed more spacing`
`03:37.17`	`TheMasterMind1`	`added padding-bottom`
`03:37.19`	`noda`	`Oh, okay.`
`03:37.27`	`TheMasterMind1`	`i pushed that into cvs iirc`
`03:37.38`	`LordDavon`	`kergoth: I found a host today. zaurii.net is hosting MaxProjects.`
`03:37.53`	`kergoth`	`LordDavon: ah nice. they're one of hte OZ mirrors as well`
`03:38.02`	`LordDavon`	`Great!`
`03:38.03`	`noda`	`Good. I'll put some sort of list-style on there at one point too, it really needs it. I took it off because the news items themselves are LI's and it's much harder to handle this stuff when you make it semi-IE-compatible.`
`03:38.18`	`LordDavon`	`http://maxprojects.zaurii.net`
`03:38.54`	`noda`	`btw, openzaurus.org has awesome news about the kernel every day - I've never seen development this quick :)`
`03:39.41`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`03:40.03`	`kergoth`	`the audio wouldnt be _nearly_ this far if it was just me, Denes' work on that has been great`
`03:40.11`	`*** join/#zaurus numatrix\|z (~numatrix\|@te-64-146-72-125.transedge.com)`
`03:40.40`	`noda`	`How does it sound btw?`
`03:40.48`	`TheMasterMind1`	`the headphone is great`
`03:40.51`	`TheMasterMind1`	`the buzzer sounds like crap`
`03:40.52`	`noda`	`The other one I mean :)`
`03:40.52`	`kergoth`	`I havent tried buzzer. headphone works fine`
`03:40.55`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`03:40.57`	`noda`	`Oh, heh :)`
`03:41.02`	`kb9`	`kergoth: so who did the bass/treble controls in the release candidate?`
`03:41.04`	`warmi`	`is there an Open Source GBA emulator for Linux ?`
`03:41.06`	`kergoth`	`well what do you expect from a buzzer? :)`
`03:41.06`	`TheMasterMind1`	`its quite bad`
`03:41.09`	`kergoth`	`kb9: ask in #opie`
`03:41.16`	`*** join/#zaurus jjbenham (~jjbenham@12-247-32-156.client.attbi.com)`
`03:41.19`	`noda`	`warmi: GBA == game boy?`
`03:41.20`	`TheMasterMind1`	`warmi: dunno, i can look`
`03:41.22`	`LordDavon`	`Hmmm... QApplication: There should be one application is the error I am getting.`
`03:41.35`	`warmi`	`advanced game boy`
`03:41.39`	`noda`	`Ah.`
`03:41.52`	`TheMasterMind1`	`warmi: gamu.sf.net`
`03:41.59`	`noda`	`I played on a GBA the other day :)`
`03:42.11`	`kergoth`	`my gba collects a lot of dust`
`03:42.16`	`kergoth`	`and an occasional spiderweb`
`03:42.24`	`noda`	`Played that level in Super Mario Brothers with all the hammer-throwing dudes. My most despised level.`
`03:42.40`	`kergoth`	`I need a backlight hack for the gba`
`03:42.42`	`kergoth`	`without that its useless`
`03:42.48`	`TheMasterMind1`	`warmi: aarmed.sf.net`
`03:43.04`	`warmi`	`oh yeah, I checked gamu but it is far from being usable`
`03:43.07`	`noda`	`Ah well, I've gotta rip out some memory because I'm nice enough to try my memory on my brother's computer even though all I want to do is sleep - 'night :)`
`03:43.30`	`jjbenham`	`can anyone tell me if the Zaurus can read SmartMedia cards?`
`03:43.41`	`kergoth`	`jjbenham: nope`
`03:43.50`	`jjbenham`	`ok`
`03:43.53`	`jjbenham`	`thanks`
`03:44.03`	`TheMasterMind1`	`warmi: doesn't look like there's any working oss ones out there`
`03:44.25`	`warmi`	`TheMasterMind1 yeah , I think there is none at this point`
`03:44.30`	`raster`	`grrrrrrrr`
`03:44.51`	`warmi`	`raster still fighting with your 'naked' libraries ?`
`03:44.57`	`raster`	`yes`
`03:45.01`	`raster`	`theyr'e NUDE damnit!`
`03:45.03`	`raster`	`NUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE!`
`03:45.19`	`raster`	`all the libfreetype.so's i can find are the same`
`03:45.22`	`raster`	`all without symbols`
`03:45.26`	`raster`	`somehting doesn tmake sense...`
`03:45.42`	`raster`	`do you NEED symbols to link?`
`03:45.56`	`warmi`	`you need symbols only for debugging`
`03:45.58`	`kergoth`	`raster: whats the link error?`
`03:46.05`	`raster`	`[- 2:53PM ~ -]nm /lib/libm-2.2.4.so`
`03:46.06`	`raster`	`nm: /lib/libm-2.2.4.so: no symbols`
`03:46.09`	`raster`	`and that works`
`03:46.12`	`raster`	`(on x86)`
`03:46.13`	`warmi`	`of course ever so library has string with function names`
`03:46.19`	`raster`	`/opt/Embedix/tools/arm-linux/lib/libfreetype.so: could not read symbols: Invalid operation`
`03:46.20`	`raster`	`collect2: ld returned 1 exit status`
`03:46.23`	`warmi`	`but that's different than debugging info`
`03:46.35`	`raster`	`yeah`
`03:46.41`	`raster`	`eaxctly`
`03:46.57`	`raster`	`needs a symbol stable for the api entry points at least...`
`03:47.03`	`raster`	`but yeah doesn tneed the rest`
`03:47.07`	`raster`	`i know i had this problem once`
`03:47.10`	`raster`	`and solved it...`
`03:47.13`	`raster`	`and now i fogot how...`
`03:47.16`	`raster`	`grrrr`
`03:48.04`	`warmi`	`that's why I keep telling everyone - switch to Windows - there are no problems like that in Bill world`
`03:48.13`	`LordDavon`	`Anyone seen this error: QApplication: There should be max one application object.`
`03:48.45`	`warmi`	`LordDavon: yeah , this would happen if you somehow created two or more QApplications objects`
`03:48.56`	`warmi`	`let me guess, you are dealing with SDL ?`
`03:49.21`	`warmi`	`normally no app will do that since QApplication object is never located in outside library like SDL does`
`03:49.22`	`LordDavon`	`Yup, except the only change I made to it is compiling with gcc 3.2`
`03:50.06`	`warmi`	`but that is your clue - SDL main contains QPEApplication object`
`03:50.20`	`warmi`	`and therefore that must be the culprit ;-)`
`03:50.27`	`warmi`	`but as I said, I don't like SDL`
`03:50.28`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`03:50.52`	`LordDavon`	`Well, since it works with 2.9 and not with 3.2... I will blame gcc.`
`03:50.54`	`LordDavon`	`;)`
`03:51.07`	`warmi`	`kergoth: have you tried compiling any SDL apps on your gcc 3.2 OZ device ?`
`03:51.17`	`warmi`	`maybe not "on" but rather "for"`
`03:52.38`	`warmi`	`LordDavon : how well Amiga emu runs on the zaurus ?`
`03:52.45`	`kergoth`	`warmi: not yet. we have sdl apps but i dont think i've rebuilt the 3.2 feed recently`
`03:52.45`	`LordDavon`	`hmmm... kergoth: You compile OZ3 with gcc 3.1+?`
`03:52.52`	`kergoth`	`LordDavon: seperate build`
`03:53.01`	`kergoth`	`LordDavon: theres a seperate initrd.bin for gcc3 use`
`03:53.04`	`kergoth`	`LordDavon: due to the loss of BC`
`03:53.21`	`kergoth`	`need to retain compatibility, while still keeping possibilities open`
`03:53.22`	`LordDavon`	`warmi: No clue. I only tried it one.`
`03:53.25`	`LordDavon`	`ince`
`03:53.26`	`LordDavon`	`once`
`03:53.27`	`kergoth`	`so we have multiple feeds`
`03:53.39`	`warmi`	`uh .. aren't you the guy who ported MaxMiga Version 1.0 ??`
`03:53.59`	`warmi`	`hehe. or am I missing something here ?`
`03:54.00`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`03:54.01`	`LordDavon`	`kergoth: Good. I think I am staying away from gcc 3.2 for a bit.`
`03:54.15`	`kergoth`	`LordDavon: understandable. the loss of BC is a big one`
`03:54.24`	`kergoth`	`LordDavon: course rebuilding OSS apps for it isnt a big deal, for the most part anyway`
`03:54.30`	`LordDavon`	`warmi: Yup. That is me. I did it to help Mark Hart. He was playing with it.`
`03:54.34`	`warmi`	`gcc 3.2 got serious - it will reject tons of code gcc 2.x used to swallow with no complains`
`03:54.56`	`warmi`	`but that's ok - not it is more less on par with latest MS compilers`
`03:55.03`	`warmi`	`at least as far as standards are concerned`
`03:55.34`	`kergoth`	`warmi: most of the compile fixes are minor`
`03:56.21`	`warmi`	`well, it is less forgiving which seems to be general direction C++ standard is going to`
`03:57.10`	`warmi`	`at least that'w what I read`
`03:57.15`	`warmi`	`I haven't tried 3.2 yet :-)`
`03:57.25`	`warmi`	`I don't feel like recompiling my entire system`
`03:57.26`	`warmi`	`heh`
`04:01.45`	`raster`	`LINK you BITCH!`
`04:02.55`	`warmi`	`picgui looks very nice on these screenshots :http://www.openzaurus.org/oz_website/content/screenies`
`04:03.13`	`*** join/#zaurus roothorick (~shit@new-65-28-211-177.new.rr.com)`
`04:03.17`	`*** part/#zaurus roothorick (~shit@new-65-28-211-177.new.rr.com)`
`04:06.05`	`raster`	`warmi: http://www.fluffyspider.com.au/products/fp/fp.html`
`04:06.06`	`raster`	`:)`
`04:07.06`	`kergoth`	`raster: wow`
`04:07.54`	`raster`	`(and thats not hacked or fake transparency - tis the real thnig.. so things that update/change udnerneath... change properly all the way through)`
`04:07.57`	`badl`	`raster: got to love the "Project FancyPants"!`
`04:08.43`	`warmi`	`I can't seem to load that page`
`04:08.52`	`warmi`	`very slow`
`04:09.11`	`PenguinXR2`	`can u run qpe apps under pg`
`04:09.11`	`PenguinXR2`	`?`
`04:09.38`	`warmi`	`pg being ?`
`04:09.44`	`PenguinXR2`	`picogui`
`04:09.49`	`warmi`	`no`
`04:09.49`	`raster`	`PenguinXR2: no.`
`04:09.52`	`warmi`	`no change :-)`
`04:09.53`	`PenguinXR2`	`aww`
`04:09.56`	`warmi`	`chance`
`04:10.08`	`PenguinXR2`	`not even w/ -qws switch?`
`04:10.21`	`warmi`	`raster: you running that site on a modem ?`
`04:10.22`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`04:10.28`	`PenguinXR2`	`yeah...`
`04:10.32`	`PenguinXR2`	`fluffy spider`
`04:10.33`	`PenguinXR2`	`hehe`
`04:10.39`	`badl`	`haha`
`04:10.45`	`PenguinXR2`	`its sloooooooooooooooooooooooooow`
`04:11.02`	`warmi`	`PenguinXR2 : PicoGUI is equivalent of Qt or Motif or GTK`
`04:11.09`	`raster`	`warmi: cloe enuf. 256k dsl`
`04:11.11`	`warmi`	`can you run GTK apps with qt libraries only /`
`04:11.13`	`warmi`	`?`
`04:11.14`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`04:11.16`	`warmi`	`the same problem`
`04:11.23`	`PenguinXR2`	`oh`
`04:11.30`	`PenguinXR2`	`if u have both installed...`
`04:11.34`	`PenguinXR2`	`could it?`
`04:11.41`	`warmi`	`yeah`
`04:11.46`	`PenguinXR2`	`u can w/ QT and GTK ie KDE with gnome apps`
`04:11.51`	`warmi`	`but you would have to run X`
`04:11.52`	`raster`	`warmi: picogui is a whole display server on its own (display system)`
`04:11.58`	`PenguinXR2`	`ah`
`04:11.59`	`raster`	`:)`
`04:12.08`	`PenguinXR2`	`so what u do w/ it if theres no apps?`
`04:12.15`	`raster`	`so err no`
`04:12.15`	`PenguinXR2`	`or easy to get apps...`
`04:12.22`	`raster`	`you erither run picogui`
`04:12.22`	`raster`	`or qpe`
`04:12.22`	`raster`	`choose between one or the other`
`04:12.31`	`PenguinXR2`	`07O00k00a00y`
`04:12.37`	`raster`	`PenguinXR2: you write them.`
`04:12.38`	`PenguinXR2`	`what apps are there for picogui?`
`04:12.38`	`warmi`	`PenguinXR2 : so is qte in this context`
`04:12.41`	`PenguinXR2`	`oh`
`04:12.43`	`PenguinXR2`	`gotcha`
`04:12.48`	`PenguinXR2`	`i dont have the skill :(`
`04:13.08`	`warmi`	`well, you could run X server and run X Qtopia and X based picoGUI apps`
`04:13.12`	`warmi`	`but that would be painfull`
`04:13.27`	`PenguinXR2`	`i have had evil time w/ X`
`04:13.29`	`raster`	`yup`
`04:13.37`	`warmi`	`PenguinXR2 : there are almost no apps for PicuGUI that I know of`
`04:13.40`	`PenguinXR2`	`i can get Icewm to work right...`
`04:13.45`	`PenguinXR2`	`it has no menu`
`04:13.47`	`PenguinXR2`	`and rxvt`
`04:13.48`	`warmi`	`PicoGUI is still in development`
`04:13.49`	`raster`	`now back toi my evil plot of building my own display server...`
`04:13.51`	`PenguinXR2`	`wont run`
`04:14.07`	`PenguinXR2`	`i cant get icewm to work`
`04:14.09`	`PenguinXR2`	`oops`
`04:14.25`	`PenguinXR2`	`well it runs...but menu is blank...practically`
`04:14.29`	`warmi`	`trying to run X on a device like zaurus is painfull`
`04:14.33`	`PenguinXR2`	`so i cant do anything with it`
`04:14.50`	`warmi`	`most apps will refuse to work or get messed up when runnig in this resolution`
`04:14.57`	`PenguinXR2`	`yeah`
`04:15.14`	`PenguinXR2`	`Z is kewl but is definately limited :(`
`04:15.15`	`raster`	`yup`
`04:15.23`	`raster`	`so writing for a pda means rewriting anyway`
`04:15.23`	`PenguinXR2`	`new Z may fix that though`
`04:15.26`	`TheMasterMind1`	`heh`
`04:15.27`	`PenguinXR2`	`640x480!`
`04:15.29`	`TheMasterMind1`	`limited?`
`04:15.29`	`warmi`	`yeah`
`04:15.32`	`raster`	`or at the minimum, porting and re-laying things out`
`04:15.43`	`warmi`	`640x480 is more like it`
`04:15.59`	`warmi`	`but still, I don't have a problem with qte`
`04:16.15`	`warmi`	`in fact, I think qt is pretty much the best GUI framework around ;-)`
`04:16.52`	`PenguinXR2`	`it seems fine from a "user" standpoint...`
`04:16.55`	`warmi`	`picgui is based on server client model which is ok for using static widgets but it is a pain in the ass when trying to use it in C++ way .. creating custom widgets derived from existing widgets etc`
`04:17.13`	`warmi`	`same goes for GTK`
`04:17.38`	`TheMasterMind1`	`the c++ ways sucks`
`04:17.39`	`warmi`	`GTK is like Qt + C++ emulator :-)`
`04:17.44`	`PenguinXR2`	`hehe`
`04:17.50`	`warmi`	`TheMasterMind1 : compared to what ?`
`04:18.02`	`TheMasterMind1`	`warmi: shrug it just sucks`
`04:18.03`	`TheMasterMind1`	`;0)`
`04:18.18`	`warmi`	`well, can't argue with that :-)`
`04:18.32`	`PenguinXR2`	`is fluffy spider real?`
`04:18.38`	`PenguinXR2`	`or is it just some gay website...`
`04:18.43`	`raster`	`warmi: my evil plans fix that with a canavs server :) MUHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA`
`04:18.55`	`warmi`	`canvas server ?`
`04:19.01`	`kergoth`	`PenguinXR2: those screenshots look like raster's work :) its so perty`
`04:19.13`	`PenguinXR2`	`07O00k00a00y its reall....`
`04:19.16`	`PenguinXR2`	`i like it`
`04:19.23`	`PenguinXR2`	`just didnt want it to be fake...`
`04:19.28`	`warmi`	`yeah, too bad one can hardly load this stuff - is Australia really thar far away? :-)`
`04:19.29`	`PenguinXR2`	`i hate kewl looking fake sites`
`04:19.33`	`PenguinXR2`	`they make me angry`
`04:19.49`	`kergoth`	`warmi: hehe`
`04:20.06`	`raster`	`warmi: its the 256k dsl link.. thats a joyful 64k upstream :)`
`04:20.14`	`warmi`	`still - seems slow`
`04:20.21`	`raster`	`PenguinXR2: it's real code. runs on my ipaq :)`
`04:20.25`	`warmi`	`www.warmi.net is on 128 upstream and it is much .. much ffaster`
`04:20.52`	`warmi`	`you must have some sort of porn feed going on right now`
`04:20.54`	`kergoth`	`raster: those apps use evas?`
`04:21.02`	`raster`	`warmi: yeah. instead of draw line.. create line. isnetad of paste icon, crate icon. like a half-way between widget set and basic immediate-mode rendering`
`04:21.05`	`warmi`	`daily snapshot of certain news groups :-)`
`04:21.12`	`PenguinXR2`	`ipaq...`
`04:21.13`	`raster`	`kergoth: yup.`
`04:21.22`	`*** join/#zaurus hobbs (~andrew@207.231.98.192)`
`04:21.30`	`PenguinXR2`	`when will it be available to Z, in normal people fashion?`
`04:21.31`	`*** join/#zaurus chouimat (~dieu@modemcable120.184-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca)`
`04:21.38`	`PenguinXR2`	`ex... ipkg`
`04:21.49`	`warmi`	`yeah, but that's still is far away from deriving widgets - you can't derive from code that resides on the server`
`04:22.00`	`kergoth`	`raster: very nice.`
`04:22.13`	`chouimat`	`hi`
`04:22.20`	`warmi`	`you would have to basically go X way - keep only primitives on the server and widgets on the client`
`04:22.46`	`warmi`	`PenguinXR2 wtf "normal people" hehehe`
`04:22.49`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: hi, what happened in the last 12 days?`
`04:22.57`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`04:23.00`	`kergoth`	`chouimat!`
`04:23.03`	`kergoth`	`hey`
`04:23.05`	`kergoth`	`how was the trip?`
`04:23.35`	`warmi`	`chouimat : did you get my book ?`
`04:23.36`	`chouimat`	`kergoth:my cat his asking me the same question`
`04:23.37`	`kergoth`	`warmi: didnt you know we developers arent normal? sheesh`
`04:23.50`	`kergoth`	`warmi: its only end users that are normal!`
`04:24.03`	`chouimat`	`warmi: I don't see it here`
`04:24.13`	`raster`	`warmi: no - but the server has no widget code.. it jst has a higher-level idea of primtiives.`
`04:24.15`	`PenguinXR2`	`im still normal`
`04:24.19`	`PenguinXR2`	`im no developer`
`04:24.25`	`PenguinXR2`	`just here to learn something`
`04:24.45`	`chouimat`	kergoth: switzerland his a nice co`untrybut the swiss are boring
`04:24.51`	`warmi`	`PenguinXR2 hehehe`
`04:25.07`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: hah, no place to party?`
`04:25.40`	`warmi`	`chouimat : what did you expect ? switzerland is the place if you want to "escape" from whatever you are trying to escape from`
`04:25.41`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`04:25.42`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: everything close on weekend (saturdau`
`04:25.54`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: ahh, that sucks`
`04:25.54`	`warmi`	`that's like Germany`
`04:25.59`	`warmi`	`everything closed on weekends`
`04:26.05`	`kergoth`	`weird`
`04:26.24`	`warmi`	`well, this is , they claim, to protect working class`
`04:26.29`	`raster`	`warmi: that way you just "ceraet image object" "move" resize" "show" "hide" "set file" "create text object" "set text" "set color". the canavs server keeps the objects over on its side and the clients just send object property change deltas. no expoases or redraws - just manipulate object porperties when theyneed to change.`
`04:26.41`	`raster`	`pretty efficient`
`04:26.42`	`*** join/#zaurus hash (foobar@c-24-118-80-93.mn.client2.attbi.com)`
`04:26.52`	`raster`	`especialyl when you batch the changes and weed out useless ones.`
`04:26.58`	`raster`	`(whcih evas alreayd does intenrally)`
`04:27.04`	`kergoth`	`warmi: 'protect'?`
`04:27.06`	`kergoth`	`warmi: hah`
`04:27.41`	`warmi`	`raster: yeah, if properly done - but I am still not sure how will that work with basic concept like for example deriving custom scrollbar from existing sccroll bar and overwriting only pain method`
`04:27.44`	`warmi`	`or something likethat`
`04:27.57`	`warmi`	`kergoth : yeah, I recently read article about that very issue in WSJ`
`04:28.02`	`warmi`	`they are trying to change that`
`04:28.10`	`warmi`	`( they, meaning Germans)`
`04:28.26`	`chouimat`	`the fucking cat litter wasn't done fopr 12 days !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1`
`04:28.29`	`hobbs`	`warmi: a scrollbar with a pain method? kinky.`
`04:28.31`	`Dilb_bored`	`they are not really fast doing so`
`04:28.41`	`raster`	`warmi: that is still done as client-side libs creating widgets out of basic objects.`
`04:28.55`	`raster`	`warmi: ie scrollbar is 4 image objects (up, down arrow, bar and trough)`
`04:29.15`	`warmi`	`hobbs : scrollbards are kinky ? hmm .. I guess ..`
`04:29.40`	`warmi`	`raster: yeah, I guess it could be done ..`
`04:30.03`	`raster`	`i even have a whole api for inheritance in C`
`04:30.10`	`warmi`	`but I the same thing can be done using qte model - I mean updates etc it all can be batched on the library level without creating this -server/client model`
`04:30.18`	`hobbs`	`warmi: you said it has a "pain method" :)`
`04:30.25`	`warmi`	`raster : me too .. it comes free with g++`
`04:30.25`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`04:30.31`	`warmi`	`hobbs : hahahaha`
`04:30.35`	`warmi`	`I missed that :-=)`
`04:30.59`	`warmi`	`well, I mistype a lot of stuff but I think I am still better than raster`
`04:31.00`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`04:31.53`	`PenguinXR2`	`well, im off to bed...`
`04:31.53`	`warmi`	`bye PenguinXR2`
`04:31.53`	`PenguinXR2`	`see you guys later`
`04:31.59`	`PenguinXR2`	`its been interesting...`
`04:32.08`	`*** part/#zaurus PenguinXR2 (~Qirc@66-190-85-148.charterga.net)`
`04:32.09`	`warmi`	`I got myself a book about Stalin ..`
`04:32.13`	`warmi`	`I am gonna read that tonight`
`04:32.25`	`warmi`	`a nice change from all that Java/C++ nonsense ..`
`04:32.26`	`warmi`	`heh`
`04:32.51`	`warmi`	`oh , finally that raster page loaded`
`04:32.55`	`hobbs`	`especially the java nonsense. :)`
`04:33.00`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: I got permission denied when I do a bk pull of buildroot`
`04:33.09`	`warmi`	`stuff is indeed very nicely done`
`04:33.24`	`warmi`	`hobbs : yeah, even more so since I do Java only at work`
`04:33.25`	`warmi`	`heeh`
`04:33.54`	`raster`	`warmi: hmmmmmstill think i can do it beter... anwyay.. this is my project... :)`
`04:34.01`	`raster`	`outa here`
`04:34.05`	`raster`	`new years eve to party!`
`04:34.09`	`raster`	`POOF`
`04:34.11`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: email me your ssh v1 pub key again, the users got hosed`
`04:34.11`	`warmi`	`raster: yeah, if you prefer that - sure`
`04:34.14`	`kergoth`	`night raster`
`04:35.11`	`warmi`	`kergoth : yeah .. API for inheritance in C is pretty much what C++ does ..`
`04:35.21`	`warmi`	`I don't know why people are so opposed to using C++`
`04:35.28`	`warmi`	`I mean it is not all that different than C:-)`
`04:36.27`	`kergoth`	`i use c or c++ or whatever language, depending on whats appropriate`
`04:36.29`	`hobbs`	`except for the being bigger and slower. For smaller projects, sometimes it pays off to think OO and code procedural. :)`
`04:36.52`	`warmi`	`hobbs : well, when you are doing inheritance with C you will still pay the price`
`04:37.06`	`warmi`	`I mean, it is not like C++ compiler creates tons of unnecesary crap`
`04:37.06`	`hobbs`	`but ywhen you start toying with real inheritance, sure, might as well jump to C++`
`04:37.09`	`hobbs`	`less headache. :)`
`04:37.12`	`warmi`	`at least , a good C++ compiler`
`04:37.15`	`hobbs`	`warmi: I think they do. It's a conspiracy. :)`
`04:37.17`	`kergoth`	`as i said, they both have their uses`
`04:37.20`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: I have a problem`
`04:37.24`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: which is?`
`04:37.35`	`chouimat`	`bk pull ask for a password`
`04:37.50`	`kergoth`	`yes`
`04:37.54`	`warmi`	`well, GUI code is like a natural match for C++ :-)`
`04:37.55`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: re-email me your ssh v1 public key`
`04:38.17`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: you see the news page on openzaurus.org? :)`
`04:38.18`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: email adress>`
`04:38.26`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: kergoth@handhelds.org`
`04:38.31`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: just get bacl`
`04:38.35`	`*** join/#zaurus Deathwind (~deathwind@modem-pool-615.mis.net)`
`04:38.52`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: go take a look :)`
`04:39.16`	`warmi`	`alright, gnight all`
`04:39.25`	`kergoth`	`night warmi`
`04:39.30`	`*** part/#zaurus warmi (~ah@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`04:40.51`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: new kernel?`
`04:41.29`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: yep`
`04:41.34`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: nearly complete`
`04:42.29`	`chouimat`	`ok. try to fix my acess for tomorrow morning, I'm going to sleep (up for 24hrs, abnd I have 8hrs of fly too)`
`04:42.31`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: fyi, added your key again`
`04:42.35`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: fixed now. night :)`
`04:43.44`	`chouimat`	`hmm 78 deltas`
`04:44.23`	`*** join/#zaurus The_ (~The_Hermo@ras3-45.rapidnet.com)`
`04:44.30`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: konq/e builds from source now, among other things`
`04:46.20`	`kergoth`	`night, sleep well`
`04:47.19`	`*** part/#zaurus The_ (~The_Hermo@ras3-45.rapidnet.com)`
`04:49.14`	`*** join/#zaurus victorvdl (~victorvdl@ip188.van98.pacifier.com)`
`04:52.47`	`LordDavon`	`Catch you all tomorrow.`
`04:52.55`	`kergoth`	`LordDavon: night`
`04:53.01`	`LordDavon`	`kergoth: Night.`
`04:54.36`	`*** join/#zaurus nagROM (~sdfs@24-193-66-121.nyc.rr.com)`
`05:09.04`	`*** join/#zaurus victorvdl (~victorvdl@ip188.van98.pacifier.com)`
`05:11.02`	`kergoth`	`ibot: logs`
`05:11.04`		`http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/`
`05:14.44`	`*** join/#zaurus ZzzGogo (~crazygo@pD9E1FD7A.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`05:15.11`	`*** part/#zaurus badalex\|away (~badalex@cpe-66-1-177-91.ut.sprintbbd.net)`
`05:31.46`	`*** join/#zaurus zeronett (~zeronett@c68.114.243.89.fdl.wi.charter.com)`
`05:48.15`	`tux_mike`	`kergoth: ping`
`05:48.38`	`kergoth`	`tux_mike: pong`
`05:48.47`	`tux_mike`	`i'm getting close`
`05:49.45`	`kergoth`	`tux_mike: to...?`
`05:50.00`	`tux_mike`	`fixing the kernel`
`05:50.06`	`tux_mike`	`the uname problem`
`05:50.11`	`tux_mike`	`i know how to fix it.`
`05:50.24`	`tux_mike`	`the problem is now, where the fuck i go to fix it :)`
`05:51.01`	`kergoth`	`ahh`
`05:51.01`	`kergoth`	`sweet`
`05:51.24`	`tux_mike`	`heh`
`05:51.27`	`tux_mike`	`what books?`
`05:52.26`	`kergoth`	`code complete, advanced programming in the unix environment, the pratice of programming`
`05:52.38`	`kergoth`	`some classics. i need to read more theory, and more reference is always good`
`06:00.23`	`tux_mike`	`well, time for me to go watch some anime and drink some rum`
`06:02.06`	`*** join/#zaurus Neo\|Laptop (~neotron@vp121.fr01.gte.blarg.net)`
`06:05.00`	`zeronett`	`is there a aim client for the zaurus?`
`06:05.25`	`hobbs`	`there's kinkattalite, at least.`
`06:17.47`	`nagROM`	`www.morganhocking.com/pictures/virgin.gif`
`06:34.49`	`*** join/#zaurus frogman (~bob@te0150.peakpeak.com)`
`06:36.16`	`frogman`	`hey all. i've got redhat 8.0. i installed qtopia desktop, but did i miss a step somewhere? i just want to use this software in Linux and it's not syncing, though the Z is recognized by the kernel.`
`06:36.58`	`frogman`	`i installed the qtopia software with an rpm from trolltech`
`06:37.11`	`hobbs`	`frogman: is your kernel patched with usbdnet?`
`06:37.16`	`hobbs`	`(USB, right?)`
`06:37.21`	`frogman`	`no it's not`
`06:37.25`	`frogman`	`usb, yes`
`06:38.11`	`frogman`	`i guess i'll have to patch the kernel...do you know where i can get the patch from?`
`06:38.13`	`hobbs`	`then there won't be any talking going on. Either compile a kernel patched with usbdnet (I'm sure zauruszone has the howto on setting the whole thing up), or download the latest 2.4.21pre`
`06:38.36`	`hobbs`	`hold on.`
`06:39.43`	`hobbs`	`http://www.zauruszone.farplanet.net/howtos/lc_generic.shtml`
`06:39.51`	`frogman`	`thanks alot`
`06:40.10`	`hobbs`	`no problem.`
`06:40.49`	`hobbs`	`there's a patch now to make the standard "usbnet" driver work with the Z, and it's a lot more stable, but it just missed inclusion in 2.4.20 -- it should be in 2.4.21prelatest.`
`06:40.56`	`hobbs`	`if you're the adventurous sort.`
`06:42.17`	`frogman`	`yes, i can venture a bit with the kernel`
`06:42.39`	`hobbs`	`it's not like anything dangerous goes on with 2.4 these days anyway. :)`
`06:43.19`	`frogman`	`yeah, i've compiled a few times since its been out, mostly with debian, but i'm using redhat on another box`
`06:44.02`	`hobbs`	`in that case, the directions on ZZ are mostly wrong, but it's easier anyway. Just get that kernel, configure it, make sure you select "USB-to-USB Networking" under USB, and it should come up no problem.`
`06:44.32`	`frogman`	`cool`
`06:45.28`	`hobbs`	`of course, you still need to give the interface an address, and set up NAT if you want, but that stuff is somewhat redhat-specific, so you're on your own there. :)`
`06:45.37`	`hobbs`	`I've been a debianite for a coupla years now. :)`
`06:46.44`	`frogman`	`debian just kicks. i'm using redhat to have the latest desktops`
`06:47.11`	`hobbs`	`I'm just using an onofficial apt source that has kde 3.1-CVS`
`06:47.13`	`hobbs`	`>:)`
`06:48.11`	`frogman`	`cool, hows it working out?`
`06:48.21`	`hobbs`	`just fine.`
`06:48.41`	`hobbs`	`I get a segfault out of konqy like once a week, but that's all the trouble it's giving me.`
`06:49.31`	`frogman`	`yeah, i'm sticking with testing because i'm running a mail server on it, and my firewall is running stable`
`06:49.47`	`hobbs`	`that's cool.`
`06:50.06`	`hobbs`	`Yeah, I use unstable for my desktop, and I would use testing on most server stuff.`
`06:50.25`	`hobbs`	`Except anything really security-sensitive.`
`06:50.39`	`frogman`	`it's pretty stable, but the packages are quite a bit behind...which makes it more stable in return`
`06:50.57`	`hobbs`	`well, yeah. debian policy is ultra-conservative. :)`
`06:51.49`	`frogman`	`it's much faster with the older packages in my opinion, but maybe that's also because it doesn't have the gloss of redhat or mandrake`
`06:52.43`	`hobbs`	`it doesn't start too much crap by default, either.`
`06:53.33`	`hobbs`	`anyway, the box I'm running kde3.1 on is a 400mhz PII with dog-slow video, but with a little tweaking, the speed is just fine.`
`06:53.47`	`frogman`	`yeah, i like that i can put it on my laptop and have a sweet system with under 300 mb`
`06:54.01`	`frogman`	`nice`
`06:54.28`	`hobbs`	`(using the "light" widget set and "web" window decoration helps a lot. no liquid for hobbs :(`
`06:55.46`	`frogman`	`i'm actually amazed at how well my PIII 500 mhz Gateway is handling Redhat 8, it's pretty fast`
`06:56.50`	`hobbs`	`the saddest thing about this laptop is the sound/video card. neomagic. ick.`
`06:57.00`	`hobbs`	`but overall, it does everything I need. Except 3d games. >:)`
`06:57.19`	`frogman`	`that's cool`
`06:57.50`	`frogman`	`i've got an ibm T23 i'd love to dual boot with, but it's company issued`
`07:13.55`	`*** join/#zaurus codemnky (~codemnky@adsl-64-161-176-145.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)`
`07:14.01`	`codemnky`	`hello`
`07:14.06`	`codemnky`	`anyone awake`
`07:14.36`	`badl`	`not really`
`07:14.45`	`codemnky`	`figures`
`07:14.55`	`hobbs`	`maybe.`
`07:14.56`	`nadav`	`heh`
`07:15.00`	`badl`	`well for the time of day it does`
`07:15.37`	`codemnky`	`new pics for yea`
`07:15.38`	`codemnky`	`http://www.oddabon.com/chad/img/la_jolla/`
`07:15.43`	`badl`	`kewl`
`07:16.13`	`badl`	`where is thata?`
`07:16.19`	`badl`	`that`
`07:16.48`	`codemnky`	`south california`
`07:16.53`	`Deathwind`	`cool...I've been to Torrey Pines`
`07:16.56`	`codemnky`	`yep`
`07:17.00`	`codemnky`	`went there 2`
`07:17.05`	`codemnky`	`for breakfast`
`07:17.16`	`codemnky`	`in-laws is a big golfer`
`07:17.26`	`codemnky`	`very nice public course`
`07:17.30`	`codemnky`	`i was impressed`
`07:17.33`	`Deathwind`	`yeah, it's a nice place`
`07:17.41`	`Deathwind`	`went there for a business meeting`
`07:17.55`	`badl`	`should have done a bit of fishing..catch a sea lion or two!`
`07:18.00`	`codemnky`	`heh`
`07:18.23`	`codemnky`	`i snapped my fingers a few times to get the little one to look up`
`07:18.41`	`codemnky`	`he's saying, hey man, stop doing that`
`07:18.47`	`badl`	`heh`
`07:19.54`	`tux_mike`	`does anyone run linux on an athlon?`
`07:20.24`	`codemnky`	`hmm, i don't think i have but what's the issue`
`07:20.41`	`tux_mike`	`i need to see the uname -a`
`07:20.54`	`codemnky`	`a AMD?`
`07:21.04`	`codemnky`	`opps`
`07:21.08`	`tux_mike`	`on an athlon`
`07:21.16`	`hobbs`	`tux_mike: not recently, but why?`
`07:21.40`	`tux_mike`	`i'm trying to hack some stuff to make rpm work better`
`07:21.41`	`codemnky`	`maybe something useful is in proc`
`07:21.54`	`tux_mike`	`actually, if you have any architecture than intel, it may help too`
`07:22.39`	`codemnky`	`i have some AMDs`
`07:22.41`	`Deathwind`	`meh, rpm...not worth the hassle...compiling from source usually winds up being easier`
`07:22.49`	`*** join/#zaurus addamgc (~beave_4@pppoe0124.vp.centurytel.net)`
`07:22.54`	`*** join/#zaurus badl_ (~badl@203-96-130-83.dialup.globe.net.nz)`
`07:23.11`	`tux_mike`	`codemnky: just need uname -a`
`07:23.51`	`tux_mike`	`Deathwind: if you know how to use rpm, it's great. besides, i'm also fixing a semantic problem that's been plaguing linux for years, but no one did anything about it`
`07:24.23`	`hobbs`	`the existence of rpm in the face of superior formats? >:)`
`07:24.31`	`hobbs`	`wait, that's not semantic. :)`
`07:25.01`	`codemnky`	`http://www.nslug.ns.ca/pipermail/nslug/2002-January/000075.html`
`07:25.05`	`codemnky`	`still looking`
`07:25.07`	`tux_mike`	`no, i mean the fact that there is no such processor as a i586 or i686`
`07:25.43`	`codemnky`	`https://listman.redhat.com/pipermail/seawolf-list/2001-May/003182.html`
`07:26.33`	`hobbs`	`tux_mike: well, there are x86's with processor family of 5 and 6. :)`
`07:26.43`	`tux_mike`	`no, there are not`
`07:26.49`	`badl_`	`yes refered to as 586 and 686`
`07:26.56`	`tux_mike`	`there is no such processor. call intel up, they will tell you`
`07:27.12`	`tux_mike`	`it should be reported as pentium, pentiumpro, pentium2, pentium3 or pentium4`
`07:27.16`	`tux_mike`	`or celeron`
`07:27.30`	`codemnky`	`seems to be alot of stuff if you search for "uname on athlon" in google and google linux`
`07:27.38`	`badl_`	`but 586 and 686 is so much easier!`
`07:27.41`	`hobbs`	`that's the _name_. :)`
`07:29.01`	`tux_mike`	`that's the processor identification. yes, the name. with this ass-backwards approach, i cannot create optimized packages for anything higher than a pentium pro`
`07:29.15`	`codemnky`	`what do you want uname to say? i'll write a quick script for ya`
`07:29.17`	`codemnky`	`;)`
`07:30.37`	`badl_`	`in soviet russia...`
`07:30.53`	`hobbs`	`gcc is too stupid to really know the difference between a ppro and anything else, anyway. :)`
`07:30.55`	`tux_mike`	`well, with gcc 3.2 i can create optimizations for the newer cpus, and the package should reflect it. i can make a package that's xyz-0.1-pentium3.rpm, but i can't install it.`
`07:31.06`	`tux_mike`	`hobbs: not 3.2`
`07:31.28`	`tux_mike`	`it has for optimizations for every intel cpu step and amd cpu step`
`07:31.42`	`Deathwind`	`if you want that info...why don't you hack the rpm implementation to look in /proc/cpuinfo?`
`07:31.49`	`Deathwind`	`that should have all the info you want`
`07:32.10`	`hobbs`	`tux_mike: yes, 3.2. Look at the specs. :) pentiumpro, pentium2, and pentium3 evaluate to the same set of settings. :)`
`07:32.15`	`tux_mike`	`i may switch to that approach.`
`07:32.30`	`tux_mike`	`pentium4 better now`
`07:32.35`	`tux_mike`	`s/now/not`
`07:33.42`	`hobbs`	`no, that one's separate. :)`
`07:34.28`	`hobbs`	`(oh, and actually, I lied. p3 enables SSE. :)`
`07:34.47`	`hobbs`	`anyway, gnight.`
`07:34.55`	`tux_mike`	`plus, adding -mmmx -msse and -mfpmath=sse add extra options. and i think there are a few new opcodes`
`07:35.02`	`hobbs`	`since I supposedly left 10 minutes ago.`
`07:35.16`	`*** part/#zaurus hobbs (~andrew@207.231.98.192)`
`07:44.03`	`*** part/#zaurus [DrEvil] (~yeah@user-2ini8hl.dialup.mindspring.com)`
`07:58.53`	`br33zy`	`gtg guys`
`07:58.55`	`br33zy`	`laters`
`07:59.01`	`*** join/#zaurus frankps (~fsilye@10.80-202-169.nextgentel.com)`
`08:08.09`	`*** join/#zaurus ZzzGogo (~crazygo@pD955E1DE.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`08:32.06`	`*** join/#zaurus oGMo (~rpav@216.190.2.176)`
`08:39.22`	`*** join/#zaurus mark (~mark@s.westcott.freeuk.com)`
`08:40.05`	`mark`	`Neo\|Laptop: have a momement?`
`08:40.28`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`sure`
`08:42.29`	`mark`	`the icon for repton is staying on after closing, i'm deleting the window, processing events, then qApp->exit(0) and then deleting the app. Any ideas?`
`08:42.36`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`yes`
`08:42.44`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`don't destroy the qapp`
`08:42.55`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`i.e don't use qApp->exit but rather exit()`
`08:43.01`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`enother bug`
`08:43.02`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`or....`
`08:43.03`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`hold`
`08:44.11`	`mark`	`okay, thanks`
`08:44.27`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`sent you a mail`
`08:44.48`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`add an atexit(cleanupQCop) somewhere early in main`
`08:47.25`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`still however, don't destroy QApplication`
`08:47.27`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`suggestion:`
`08:48.09`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`in the main file, have a static QPEApplication *app; in global scope and then do app = new QPEApplication(argc, argv) in the beginning of the main`
`08:48.12`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`and never delete it`
`08:48.45`	`mark`	`Neo\|Laptop: thanks for that`
`08:49.00`	`mark`	`Neo\|Laptop: okay - I do the static QPEApplication *app thing, I've just been deleting it`
`08:51.22`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`don't delete it and exit using exit(0) rather than qApp->exit(0)`
`08:51.35`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`that works better in my experience (in combination with the cleanupQCop stuff`
`08:51.58`	`mark`	`i presume I need to process events after exit(0)?`
`08:51.59`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`David Hedbor - Master Bugworkarounder. :)`
`08:52.02`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`no`
`08:52.15`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`exit(0) exits the app right there and then`
`08:52.20`	`mark`	`okay`
`08:52.29`	`mark`	`lets try :)`
`08:56.36`	`mark`	`Neo\|Laptop: hmm, it doesnt seem to be exiting at all now`
`08:57.00`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`uh. exit(0) will exit (TM)`
`08:57.28`	`mark`	`hehe, i'm left with a black screen`
`08:57.58`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`exit exits, trust me`
`08:57.58`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`:P`
`08:58.08`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`it can't not exit`
`08:59.00`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`unless, perhaps, cleanupQCop never exots`
`08:59.50`	`mark`	`Neo\|Laptop: i haven't put that in yet.`
`09:00.14`	`mark`	`Neo\|Laptop: hang on, i do still need to return 0; after exit(0); yes?`
`09:01.15`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`no`
`09:01.21`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`exit(0) exits right there and then`
`09:01.25`	`kergoth`	`mark: man exit :)`
`09:01.26`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`nothing after it gets executes`
`09:01.51`	`mark`	`ah jeez, I was thinking of Qt's exit routine still`
`09:02.01`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`09:05.18`	`*** join/#zaurus hash (foobar@c-24-118-80-93.mn.client2.attbi.com)`
`09:13.40`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`heh`
`09:13.52`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`that's why I repeated it as exit(0) and not anything but that. :)`
`09:14.43`	`kergoth`	`Neo\|Laptop: shouldve stress it as ::exit(0) so he'd remember just what namespace it resides in :)`
`09:14.46`	`kergoth`	`Neo\|Laptop: hehe`
`09:20.24`	`mark`	`in which case the question of why I end up with a black screen remains`
`09:25.15`	`*** join/#zaurus mark\|downstairs (mark@s.westcott.freeuk.com)`
`09:26.09`	`mark\|downstairs`	`damn damn damn`
`09:30.30`	`Neo\|Laptop`	`seriously, it shouldn't unless you don't clear the screne ok or something weird`
`09:31.25`	`MSpin`	`kergoth: is there a working kismet 2.8.0 ipkg around for OZ?`
`09:33.31`	`kergoth`	`MSpin: hmm not handy. iirc its in the buildroot, but i havent updated the unstable feed in weeks`
`09:34.07`	`MSpin`	`it doesn't seem to buils, TMM mentioned thet onyx4 hasn't pushed a CS`
`09:34.30`	`kergoth`	`ah`
`09:34.53`	`kergoth`	`I havent touched userspace in a while, i want to get this damn collie support forward port done`
`09:34.54`	`MSpin`	`I compiled it directly, but it can't find libstcc++`
`09:35.22`	`kergoth`	`MSpin: statically link with libstdc++. neither sharp or oz have the shared lib for it atm`
`09:35.55`	`MSpin`	`k, hrm`
`09:38.01`	`MSpin`	`I like kismet 2.8.0 already`
`09:38.04`	`mark`	`Neo\|Work: hmm, i'm not thinking striaght atm, I'll try later. Thanks for the help`
`09:38.27`	`mark`	`same for Neo\|Laptop :)`
`09:53.27`	`*** join/#zaurus Smart (~Smart@62.65.149.158)`
`09:53.39`	`Smart`	`hi. sombody live ?`
`10:23.39`	`*** join/#zaurus Piete (~Piete@s210-221-28-96.thrunet.ne.kr)`
`10:23.55`	`Piete`	`hey :)`
`10:26.49`	`*** join/#zaurus pez2001 (pez2001@pD9E3C7E5.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`10:27.15`	`pez2001`	`i wish YOU ALL a wonderful new year !`
`11:10.35`	`*** join/#zaurus n0bber (~n0bber@216-73-109-110.ocdc-01.net)`
`11:16.28`	`*** join/#zaurus troffasky (~alex@pc-80-194-224-49-ny.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`11:38.55`	`*** join/#zaurus lsmith (~vandal@brln-d5148318.dsl.mediaWays.net)`
`12:08.34`	`pez2001`	`ibot solar charger`
`12:08.36`		`well, solar charger is at http://www.aurorasolar.com/merchant.ihtml?pid=2&step=4`
`12:08.43`	`pez2001`	`ibot solar`
`12:08.44`		`pez2001: i don't know`
`12:31.10`	`*** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@m67-mp1.cvx1-a.man.dial.ntli.net)`
`12:31.13`	`George-`	`Hello :)`
`12:38.11`	`George-`	`cya Twiun[lunch]`
`12:39.58`	`*** join/#zaurus ibz (~foobar@host217-36-23-140.in-addr.btopenworld.com)`
`12:40.29`	`George-`	`ibz: lart george-`
`12:40.29`	`George-`	`=P`
`12:41.57`	`*** join/#zaurus ibz (~foobar@host217-36-23-140.in-addr.btopenworld.com)`
`12:43.14`	`George-`	`yo _ibz`
`12:43.20`	`George-`	`_ibz: lart george-`
`12:43.20`	`George-`	`=P`
`12:43.44`	`_ibz`	`ibot ibz`
`12:43.46`		`i guess ibz is not ibot, ibz is not a bot, ibz is umarumohammed@btinternet.com`
`12:44.11`	`George-`	`_ibz: I know ;)`
`12:44.29`	`_ibz`	`;)`
`12:48.47`	`George-`	`hrmm`
`12:49.10`	`George-`	`channel #2003 has gone from 10 people in it to 68 in 30 seconds`
`12:49.10`	`George-`	`lol`
`12:53.26`	`chouimat`	`morning`
`12:54.43`	`_ibz`	`George-: damn australians...`
`12:55.15`	`George-`	`_ibz: haha`
`12:55.22`	`George-`	`chouimat: back from switzerland?`
`12:56.23`	`chouimat`	`George-: yesterday at 22h00EST`
`12:56.37`	`George-`	`chouimat: blah`
`12:56.46`	`George-`	`chouimat: Why didn't you go drown in Lake Geneva or something? =P`
`12:57.04`	`chouimat`	`George-: switzerland is nice but people are boring`
`12:57.08`	`chouimat`	`George-: get lost`
`12:57.23`	`George-`	`chouimat: lol`
`12:57.26`	`George-`	`chouimat: bad mood?`
`12:59.47`	`chouimat`	`George-: the guy who took care of my cat didn't do the litter so I let you image, I cleaned the appartment after 8hrs of flight and 3 of road`
`13:00.16`	`George-`	`:)`
`13:00.16`	`George-`	`Sorry`
`13:00.19`	`George-`	`heh`
`13:01.29`	`chouimat`	`George-: the smell is still there, but it's ok and opening the windows at -20C it's fun too`
`13:01.46`	`George-`	`ouch`
`13:14.38`	`Twiun`	`rehi`
`13:14.49`	`George-`	`hi Twiun`
`13:22.17`	`chouimat`	`hi Twiun numatrix`
`13:23.30`	`numatrix`	`morning, chouimat`
`13:25.21`	`*** join/#zaurus ljp (~ljp@tf0226.peakpeak.com)`
`13:25.43`	`chouimat`	`hi ljp`
`13:33.56`	`ljp`	`hi`
`13:42.28`	`George-`	`~lart ljp`
`13:42.38`	`George-`	`;)`
`13:42.58`	`*** join/#zaurus TheMasterMind1 (foobar@h-69-3-87-66.MCLNVA23.covad.net)`
`13:44.45`	`*** join/#zaurus Piete (~Piete@s210-221-28-96.thrunet.ne.kr)`
`13:59.50`	`*** join/#zaurus ZzzGogo (~crazygo@pD9E1F9DC.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`14:11.51`	`*** join/#zaurus drewba (~asdf@204-74-5-100.c3-0.nyr-ubr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com)`
`14:13.01`	`drewba`	`hello?`
`14:14.32`	`George-`	`hi`
`14:14.56`	`drewba`	`where is everybody... or is it too early/late for discussion?`
`14:15.40`	`George-`	`too early`
`14:15.51`	`George-`	`plus it's new years eve`
`14:15.58`	`George-`	`you don't expect people to sit on IRC all day :)`
`14:16.16`	`George-`	`why, what do you need help with?`
`14:16.26`	`drewba`	`no, only for enough time to answer my questions... ;-)`
`14:16.36`	`drewba`	`I've been having probs with the wireless card`
`14:16.48`	`drewba`	`first the linksys model 12 then the smc`
`14:17.00`	`George-`	`which ROM are you using?`
`14:17.02`	`drewba`	`i learned how to modify wlan-ng.conf`
`14:17.04`	`drewba`	`rom 2.38`
`14:17.17`	`drewba`	`but they say they don't support the smc`
`14:17.20`	`George-`	`Well, I don't know much about wlan`
`14:17.26`	`drewba`	`going back to the store for the linksys`
`14:17.33`	`drewba`	`AGAIN`
`14:18.07`	`George-`	`heh`
`14:18.42`	`drewba`	`what time does this chat room start getting rolling?`
`14:18.50`	`George-`	`in a few hours`
`14:18.51`	`George-`	`lol`
`14:18.53`	`drewba`	`heh`
`14:18.57`	`George-`	`ibot linksys`
`14:18.59`		`rumour has it, linksys is a tool of satan`
`14:19.02`	`George-`	`hrmm`
`14:19.06`	`George-`	`ibot wcf12`
`14:19.07`		`George-: no idea`
`14:19.11`	`George-`	`ibot wlan`
`14:19.13`		`from memory, wlan is wireless, see wireless`
`14:19.13`	`drewba`	`what do you do with your zaurus if you don't use it for wireless connectivity`
`14:19.22`	`George-`	`drewba: me?`
`14:19.24`	`drewba`	`sure`
`14:19.28`	`George-`	`drewba: I'm a pseudo-developer =P`
`14:19.37`	`George-`	`ie - I try to develop, but I fail miserably`
`14:19.51`	`drewba`	`what type of software do you pseudo develop?`
`14:19.57`	`George-`	`anything`
`14:19.58`	`George-`	`lol`
`14:20.08`	`George-`	`At the moment, I'm trying to make an Othello game`
`14:20.17`	`drewba`	`can you make me an app to zap my girlfriend into next week?`
`14:20.29`	`George-`	`no`
`14:20.37`	`George-`	`;)`
`14:20.37`	`drewba`	`darn`
`14:20.48`	`George-`	`I haven'tbeen coding in Qt/C++ for long`
`14:20.58`	`George-`	`only a year or so, and I've been really lazy, lol`
`14:21.17`	`drewba`	`what is the coolest zaurus app you know of?`
`14:21.22`	`George-`	`uhm`
`14:21.26`	`George-`	`OpenZaurus :)`
`14:21.44`	`drewba`	`what makes it so cool?`
`14:22.03`	`George-`	`it's Open, it runs on Opie, and it works`
`14:22.15`	`George-`	`and it's just about to update the kernel from the aging 2.4.6 to 2.4.19 :)`
`14:22.49`	`George-`	`plus kergoth is really cool =P`
`14:23.23`	`George-`	`hrmm, I need to get on with my holiday work`
`14:23.26`	`George-`	`school on Monday :(`
`14:24.29`	`drewba`	`enjoy, thanks for the info`
`14:24.35`	`*** part/#zaurus drewba (~asdf@204-74-5-100.c3-0.nyr-ubr3.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com)`
`14:27.41`	`chouimat`	George`Work?? someone hire him?
`14:36.05`	`*** join/#zaurus frankps (~fsilye@10.80-202-169.nextgentel.com)`
`14:38.21`	*** join/#zaurus George`Work (~Test@m157-mp1.cvx2-a.bre.dial.ntli.net)
`14:38.32`	George`Work	`chouimat: schoolwork you dunce`
`14:44.10`	`mark`	George`Work: moonday? yuck
`14:44.24`	George`Work	`mark?`
`14:44.52`	`mark`	George`Work: I have till wednesday 8th
`14:45.31`	George`Work	`mark: bitch`
`14:47.46`	`*** join/#zaurus exa (~exa@63.76.208.12)`
`14:47.58`	`exa`	`hi there`
`14:48.28`	`exa`	`you guys think one should wait for SL-5600 or get the cheaper and available SL-5500?`
`14:49.18`	`exa`	`hi chouimat`
`14:49.35`	`chouimat`	`hi exa`
`14:50.59`	`mark`	George`Work: :)
`14:51.09`	`exa`	`chouimat: 'sup bro?`
`14:52.05`	`exa`	`chouimat: what do you think? 5600 worth the wait?`
`14:53.23`	`chouimat`	`exa: I only have a 5000D`
`14:53.29`	`Piete`	`I'm in 2003 now :)`
`14:54.15`	`lsmith`	`exa: i wouldnt wait ... tje sl-5500 is such a good value atm`
`14:54.27`	`lsmith`	`and its not clear when the sl-5600 is coming out`
`14:54.40`	`lsmith`	`and it will be almost twice the price`
`14:54.40`	`mark`	`if I make mp3s of my CDs and put them on my webserver is this illegal?`
`14:55.00`	`lsmith`	`mark: depends :-)`
`14:55.22`	`Twiun`	`mark: do you live in a country with close ties to the US?`
`14:55.29`	`lsmith`	`atleast in germany it is not as long as you only give friends of yours access`
`14:55.39`	`Twiun`	`mark: if so, US RIAA/DMCA laws _will_ apply`
`14:55.50`	`mark`	`Twiun: i live in your country :)`
`14:56.01`	`Twiun`	`I was being sarcastic ;-)`
`14:56.16`	`lsmith`	`but its a grey area .. because what the RIAA gets does not have to follow common sense or law`
`14:56.28`	`mark`	`Twiun: ;)`
`14:56.38`	`Twiun`	`good point`
`14:57.07`	`*** join/#zaurus raluke (~raluke@pcp218474pcs.elkrdg01.md.comcast.net)`
`14:57.47`	`mark`	`i mean, by putting them on a webserver, i'm not distributing them am I?`
`14:58.08`	`lsmith`	`depends who you give access`
`14:58.35`	`mark`	`well if i dont protect it`
`14:58.49`	`Twiun`	`you really are asking for it, aren't you?`
`14:58.56`	`mark`	`Twiun: hehe`
`14:59.03`	`Piete`	`My Palm IIIc just lit up and gave me a fantastic '160x132' fireworks display... lol`
`14:59.24`	`mark`	`Twiun: i suppose its the equivalent of leaving a tape in the road`
`14:59.39`	`lsmith`	`you can put an EULA on the page saying that only people with permission may download and all requests for the files have to be referrers from that EULA page ;-)`
`14:59.57`	`lsmith`	`mark: no leaving copies of your tape on the road`
`14:59.58`	`Twiun`	`yer... just like the old warez pages used to do...`
`15:00.04`	`Twiun`	`not exactly watertight`
`15:00.11`	`lsmith`	`Twiun: :-)`
`15:00.13`	`mark`	`lsmith: yeah`
`15:00.19`	`mark`	`hmm`
`15:04.52`	`mark`	`laws suck :)`
`15:05.40`	`Twiun`	`well.... only the ones we don't like ;-)`
`15:06.12`	`mark`	`true. i've started buying so much more music since downloading mp3s`
`15:06.34`	`lsmith`	`to a certain extend that is true for me too`
`15:06.44`	`lsmith`	`1) i know more about the cd i am buying`
`15:06.56`	`lsmith`	`2) it has more value because i can use it more flexibly`
`15:08.27`	`mark`	`yeap, ditto`
`15:10.44`	`mark`	`CDs sound tonnes better`
`15:11.32`	`Piete`	`I dont download music, or buy cds`
`15:11.42`	`Piete`	`when I want music, I use shoutcast/peercast`
`15:11.48`	`Piete`	`thats enought for me :)`
`15:11.51`	`Piete`	`-t`
`15:13.33`	`mark`	`hmm, i saw some really cool boots on the tube today and cant find em`
`15:14.41`	`Piete`	`the tube today?`
`15:14.49`	`mark`	`metro`
`15:15.11`	`Piete`	`...`
`15:15.17`	`mark`	`heh`
`15:15.19`	`mark`	`on the metro`
`15:15.19`	`Twiun`	`underground (pseudo)train system of london`
`15:15.24`	`Piete`	`ah`
`15:15.29`	`Twiun`	`aka "The Tube"`
`15:15.36`	`Piete`	`bashes head`
`15:15.41`	`mark`	`aka "Pile of ****"`
`15:15.47`	`Twiun`	`that too...`
`15:16.02`	`Twiun`	`or "Isn't the air nice and chewable down here?"`
`15:16.45`	`mark`	`hehe`
`15:16.53`	`mark`	`grr, i really want a pair of those boots :(`
`15:17.31`	`Twiun`	`erm... 450 types of microbes`
`15:17.40`	`Twiun`	`not a total of 450 ;-)`
`15:17.54`	`mark`	`Twiun: hasnt the asbestos gone?`
`15:18.20`	`Twiun`	`it certainly won't just go away...`
`15:18.51`	`Twiun`	`and I haven't heard of them closing down every line to clean it up`
`15:18.52`	`mark`	`i thought it'd been removed everywhere?`
`15:18.58`	`mark`	`hmm`
`15:19.08`	`Twiun`	`I'm thinking of the dust...`
`15:19.13`	`Twiun`	`not the construction materials`
`15:19.16`	`mark`	`ah kay`
`15:19.19`	`Twiun`	`(dust being far worse)`
`15:21.08`	`Twiun`	`woot... fixed the preferred size of buttons...`
`15:21.27`	`Twiun`	`next - getting gif images to really load, instead of those black areas`
`15:22.03`	George`Work	`Twiun: you live in England?`
`15:22.44`	George`Work	`and the tube isn't that bad`
`15:22.45`	`Twiun`	George`Work: London
`15:22.45`	George`Work	`=P`
`15:22.58`	`Twiun`	`it's a sardine can on tracks`
`15:23.04`	George`Work	`lol`
`15:23.14`	`Twiun`	`you should travel at the rush hour sometime ;-)`
`15:23.18`	George`Work	`it's over 100 years old, cut it some slack ;)`
`15:23.44`	`Twiun`	`The tube is DEAD, long live walking!`
`15:23.48`	George`Work	`lol`
`15:24.34`	`mark`	`the fact its 100 years old is mostly the problem`
`15:24.46`	George`Work	`mark: yeh, well`
`15:24.58`	George`Work	`I don't think they can just go and rebuild it all, can they`
`15:25.04`	George`Work	`lol`
`15:25.35`	`*** join/#zaurus bipolar (~bflong@24.229.103.140)`
`15:26.22`	`Twiun`	George`Work: they're going to have to... did you see the mess they made of integrating new technologies into it? (referring to the jubilee line extension)
`15:26.38`	George`Work	`my dad worked on the jubilee line extension =P`
`15:26.39`	George`Work	`lol`
`15:26.46`	George`Work	`He thought it was a terribly botched up job`
`15:26.47`	George`Work	`and quit =P`
`15:26.50`	`mark`	`hehe`
`15:27.07`	George`Work	`prolly cuz they weren't paying him enough ;)`
`15:27.25`	`mark`	`couldn't they build another system lower down?`
`15:27.37`	George`Work	`I dunno what they were trying to do :)`
`15:28.09`	`*** join/#zaurus kolla (~kolla@ti411310a080-0183.bb.online.no)`
`15:28.13`	`Twiun`	`mark: I think the water table is too near as it is`
`15:28.45`	`mark`	`Twiun: hmm`
`15:29.05`	`mark`	`it could do with 4 tunnels instead of 2, but presumably there isn't room`
`15:29.11`	`Twiun`	`remember the problems they had during the floods`
`15:29.26`	`Twiun`	`yeah - it's all those secret bunkers, they get in the way`
`15:30.02`	George`Work	`secret bunkers?`
`15:30.04`	George`Work	`=)`
`15:30.23`	`Twiun`	`you mean, you don't have one?`
`15:30.28`	`Twiun`	`woops`
`15:30.43`	George`Work	`lol`
`15:30.48`	`mark`	`Twiun: dont tell him, he'll just go round trying to steal ours now`
`15:31.07`	George`Work	`bah`
`15:31.32`	George`Work	`fuckers ;)`
`15:32.57`	`mark`	`but they really are gonna have rebuild it at some point`
`15:33.06`	`mark`	`the tube in lisbon is excellent`
`15:34.27`	`Twiun`	`the one in hongkong is likewise excellent - and air conditionned!`
`15:34.47`	`*** join/#zaurus alp (~alp@pc-62-30-76-103-hr.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`15:35.25`	George`Work	`heh, my dad worked on the hong kong one too ;)`
`15:36.00`	`Twiun`	`did he stay his whole contract?`
`15:36.13`	George`Work	`not sure`
`15:36.17`	George`Work	`I was very young ;)`
`15:36.19`	`alp`	`just picked up a 4 AA holder, dc jack, wire and solder for £2 from maplin`
`15:36.22`	George`Work	`then we moved to korea`
`15:36.23`	George`Work	`heh`
`15:36.49`	`Twiun`	`lol`
`15:37.20`	George`Work	`I don't really have any memories before Korea`
`15:37.23`	`mark`	`http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2617703.stm`
`15:37.34`	`*** join/#zaurus victorvdl (~victor@ip80.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com)`
`15:37.45`	`*** join/#zaurus ljp_work (~ljp_work@01-041.026.popsite.net)`
`15:38.24`	`Twiun`	`mark: oh dear... same as the trains`
`15:39.20`	George`Work	`hrmm`
`15:39.29`	George`Work	`Amey, Jarvis and Bechtel`
`15:41.41`	George`Work	`at least Virgin aren't there ;)`
`15:42.30`	`Piete`	`the 'tube' here in seoul is excelent as well`
`15:42.59`	`mark`	Twiun, George`Work: enjoying the sales? :)
`15:43.10`	`Twiun`	Piete: George`Work's dad probably worked on it ;-)
`15:43.16`	George`Work	`Twiun: no =P`
`15:43.29`	George`Work	`my dad only worked on the high speed rail link, which I've heard has been cancelled, lol`
`15:43.31`	`Twiun`	`mark: sales, what sales? I ain't spending money atm`
`15:43.58`	George`Work	`Piete: please don't mention seoul to me ;)`
`15:44.06`	George`Work	`Piete: I didn't particularly like my time there, hehe`
`15:44.31`	`Piete`	George`Work: oh, sorry :)
`15:44.43`	`Piete`	George`Work: was in the army?
`15:44.50`	`mark`	`Piete: i dont think so :)`
`15:44.53`	George`Work	`rofl`
`15:44.56`	`Piete`	`what then`
`15:45.01`	`Piete`	`blank`
`15:45.02`	George`Work	`Living there`
`15:45.04`	`mark`	`Twiun: hmm. how does the employment search go?`
`15:45.07`	George`Work	`with parents...`
`15:45.09`	George`Work	`lol`
`15:45.22`	George`Work	`Ya know what it's like.. being in a country where you can't speak the language.. ;)`
`15:45.25`	George`Work	`and going to school there`
`15:45.25`	George`Work	`lol`
`15:45.37`	`Piete`	`hehe`
`15:45.50`	`Piete`	George`Work: thats pretty much the situation for me here
`15:46.12`	`Piete`	George`Work: but I like it here :)
`15:46.27`	`Piete`	George`Work: Especialy Techno-mart, and the broadband
`15:46.45`	George`Work	`hrmm`
`15:46.53`	George`Work	`I suppose it's improved since I was there ;)`
`15:46.53`	`Twiun`	`mark: small hint - I'm going to apply for a part-time sales position in accessorize �6.28/h`
`15:47.23`	`Piete`	George`Work: when were you there?
`15:47.28`	`Piete`	`*here`
`15:48.00`	George`Work	`Piete: uhm.. about 9 years ago`
`15:48.17`	`Piete`	`yup, its improved :)`
`15:48.23`	George`Work	`and I left about 6 years ago`
`15:48.47`	`mark`	`Twiun: I'm sorry to hear that. G`
`15:48.53`	`mark`	`Got any interviews for tech jobs comming up?`
`15:48.53`	`Piete`	`I'm entering my third year over here now`
`15:49.31`	George`Work	`Piete: how old are you?`
`15:49.58`	`Piete`	`20`
`15:50.04`	`Piete`	`but I work part time :)`
`15:50.21`	`Twiun`	`mark: nope... and it being xmas and everything, no phonecalls/responses from agencies`
`15:51.07`	`Twiun`	`mark: still, I'm enjoying this holiday`
`15:51.08`	George`Work	`Piete: oh, I was there from 5 till 8 ;)`
`15:52.00`	`Piete`	George`Work: well, back home I didnt have any friends, so not having many here either makes little difference to me ;)
`15:52.07`	George`Work	`haha`
`15:52.15`	`Piete`	George`Work: at least the girls are prettier than back home :)
`15:52.37`	`Piete`	George`Work: oh, and did I mention the broadband?
`15:52.45`	George`Work	`uhm yeh`
`15:52.48`	`Piete`	`lol`
`15:52.52`	`Piete`	`man, its awesome`
`15:52.55`	George`Work	`Piete: where's home for you then? =P`
`15:53.14`	`Piete`	George`Work: well, I doubt I'll go back there in my life, but it was south africa
`15:53.35`	`Piete`	`I won't stay here long either`
`15:53.52`	George`Work	`oh`
`15:54.01`	George`Work	`I suppose home for me would be the UK`
`15:54.12`	George`Work	`I've lived a weird life, not really living anywhere long ;)`
`15:54.15`	`Piete`	`my great grandfather was a dutch citizen, so aparently I'll get a dutch citizenship quite easy`
`15:54.35`	`Piete`	George`Work: heh, I've never lived longer than 1 year in one house
`15:55.10`	George`Work	`lol`
`15:56.17`	`*** part/#zaurus victorvdl (~victor@ip80.13-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com)`
`15:56.37`	George`Work	`well.. enough of our biographies =P`
`15:57.55`	`Piete`	`yea,, thats all ancient history`
`15:58.07`	George`Work	`damn`
`15:58.08`	`Piete`	`I'm in 2003 now... I have to try and see what to do now`
`15:58.13`	George`Work	`I gtg have a friggin' haircut`
`15:58.16`	George`Work	`GRR`
`15:58.20`	`Piete`	`likewise :)`
`15:58.35`	`Piete`	`my hair grow at the speed of sound :)`
`16:00.40`	`*** part/#zaurus Cloudchaser (~Cloudchas@ool-182d0f58.dyn.optonline.net)`
`16:01.43`	`*** join/#zaurus sieve (~sieve@12.148.134.9)`
`16:03.43`	`Piete`	`'nite`
`16:05.04`	`*** join/#zaurus Cloudchaser (~Cloudchas@ool-182d0f58.dyn.optonline.net)`
`16:05.26`	`frankps`	`http://vicclap.hu/pic/1033`
`16:05.43`	`frankps`	`http://vicclap.hu/pic/1501`
`16:13.18`	`numatrix`	`~seen Neo\|Laptop`
`16:13.21`		`neo\|laptop is currently on #opie (10h 11m 15s) #zaurus (10h 11m 15s). Has said a total of 29 messages. Is idling for 6h 42m 51s`
`16:14.26`	`*** join/#zaurus AndyQ (AndyQ_w@pc-80-194-121-147-hy.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`16:20.03`	`*** join/#zaurus hash (foobar@c-24-118-80-93.mn.client2.attbi.com)`
`16:28.44`	`*** join/#zaurus warmi (~a3c01503@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`16:29.03`	`warmi`	`hi`
`16:29.55`	`kergoth`	`hey`
`16:30.56`	`AndyQ`	`hey warmi`
`16:31.37`	`*** join/#zaurus zeronett (~zeronett@c68.114.243.89.fdl.wi.charter.com)`
`16:31.37`	`AndyQ`	`warmi: numatrix suggested you may be able to help with a SDL question`
`16:32.00`	`numatrix`	`warmi: Or rather, a graphics quetsion in general. Aren't you glad I volunteered you? :-)`
`16:32.22`	`AndyQ`	`hehe`
`16:32.22`	`warmi`	`perhaps graphic - but certainly not SDL`
`16:32.27`	`warmi`	`I never used SDL`
`16:32.38`	`AndyQ`	`ahhh`
`16:32.42`	`numatrix`	`warmi: It has more to do with general graphics techniques than SDL, I think.`
`16:32.50`	`warmi`	`what's the question ?`
`16:33.08`	`AndyQ`	`I'm generating a scrolling 2d terrain`
`16:33.32`	`warmi`	`4 way scrolling or just 2 way scrolling ?`
`16:33.41`	`AndyQ`	`currently its implemented as a line marking the top of the terrain but people are requesting solid filled terrain`
`16:33.52`	`AndyQ`	`2 way scrolling - in fact right to left`
`16:34.12`	`warmi`	`yeah`
`16:34.15`	`AndyQ`	`now filling the terrain is fairly easy but its damn slow`
`16:34.36`	`AndyQ`	`I've tried two ways so far - 1 just filling lots of polygons`
`16:34.57`	`AndyQ`	`and the other is creating the visible terrain once at init time`
`16:35.27`	`numatrix`	`warmi: this is for sfcave, if you've seen it...`
`16:35.29`	`AndyQ`	`then on subsequent frames, scrolling the terrain slightly and then blitting the extra bit on to the end`
`16:35.54`	`warmi`	`ah the cave .`
`16:35.54`	`AndyQ`	`both of which seem to give similar performace for some reason`
`16:35.54`	`warmi`	`yeah, I have seen it`
`16:36.33`	`warmi`	`is the cave shape or the border line ( height) generated randomly ?`
`16:36.41`	`AndyQ`	`randomly`
`16:37.17`	`warmi`	`let me think ..`
`16:37.37`	`warmi`	`you are filling it with a single color right ?`
`16:37.44`	`AndyQ`	`yup`
`16:38.03`	`AndyQ`	`currently, the terrain is made of 50 line segments`
`16:38.20`	`warmi`	`meaning each screen is made of 50 line segments right ?`
`16:38.59`	`AndyQ`	`nope - the top part is 50 lines and so is the bottom`
`16:39.28`	`AndyQ`	`its pretty much the same line but the bottom area when filled will be different from the top`
`16:40.23`	`warmi`	`ar eyou double buffering this ?`
`16:40.48`	`*** join/#zaurus bipolar_ (~bflong@24.229.103.140)`
`16:41.01`	`treke`	`hmm sweet. sounds like someone figured out the encryption for ms reader`
`16:41.08`	`AndyQ`	`yeah - my drawing is onto a seperate surface that is blitted onto the screen`
`16:41.20`	`treke`	`too bad no one can write a reader without being suid into oblivion`
`16:41.27`	`Twiun`	`lol`
`16:41.30`	`*** join/#zaurus mandrake (~mandrake@dsl093-060-013.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`16:41.37`	`Twiun`	`no sources yet either`
`16:41.46`	`kergoth`	`mornin mandrake`
`16:42.30`	`mandrake`	`morning`
`16:43.14`	`warmi`	`AndyQ: let me look at the available methods of QPainter - see if I can come up with something ..`
`16:43.37`	`AndyQ`	`k - although warmi - I'm not using the QT api - but SDL`
`16:43.54`	`AndyQ`	`I guess it will be similar though`
`16:43.56`	`warmi`	`ah , got you`
`16:44.06`	`warmi`	`does SQL has methods for drawing lines etc ?`
`16:44.10`	`warmi`	`SDL that is`
`16:44.32`	`AndyQ`	`yeah - or at least the a lib I'm using does`
`16:47.40`	`warmi`	`actually, I think the fastest way would be to do like you said - pregenerate screen at the start time and then update only whatever is your step for each scrolling animation`
`16:47.57`	`warmi`	`this way you could avoid fill with each screen frame`
`16:47.58`	`*** join/#zaurus frankps (~fsilye@10.80-202-169.nextgentel.com)`
`16:48.05`	`warmi`	`I am puzzled why is it slow ...`
`16:48.22`	`AndyQ`	`OK, what I'm doing is:`
`16:48.38`	`AndyQ`	`create two surfaces (drawing areas) - one for the terrain, one temp`
`16:49.21`	`AndyQ`	`then each update, blit the terrain onto the temp minus the left 5 pixels (amount it will scroll)`
`16:49.40`	`AndyQ`	`then clean the terrain, and blit the temp back onto the terrain`
`16:49.57`	`AndyQ`	`finally add the new bit to the end of the terrain surface and blit that to the screen`
`16:50.14`	`AndyQ`	`thats got to be done for both top and bottom`
`16:50.35`	`AndyQ`	`and seems to be slower that drawing line segments - like about twice as slow`
`16:52.04`	`warmi`	`hmm ..`
`16:52.47`	`warmi`	`can't you just blit temp surface to itself like blit to x-5 position ?`
`16:53.07`	`warmi`	`and then overdraw the right side with new lines ?`
`16:53.34`	`warmi`	`basically scroll the terrain using the same surface`
`16:53.40`	`warmi`	`this would save you one blit`
`16:53.41`	`AndyQ`	`I can give it ago but not sure if it would work`
`16:53.47`	`AndyQ`	`yeah`
`16:53.52`	*** join/#zaurus George`NotHere (~Test@m331-mp1.cvx1-a.man.dial.ntli.net)
`16:54.00`	`*** join/#zaurus hash (foobar@c-24-118-80-93.mn.client2.attbi.com)`
`16:54.06`	`warmi`	`that depends if SDL blit is flexible , meaning can handle overlapping blits`
`16:54.16`	George`NotHere	`hi`
`16:54.18`	`warmi`	`this one is not even overlapping`
`16:54.19`	`AndyQ`	`yeah`
`16:55.19`	`warmi`	`that's the only thing I can think of at this point - other would be to comppose your terrain out of tiles but that would limit amount of "randomness"`
`16:55.55`	`AndyQ`	`yeah - well thanks for the suggestions I'll give it a go`
`16:55.55`	`warmi`	`AndyQ: btw .. the link on killefiz.de/zaurus for the source code results in 404 ?`
`16:57.10`	`AndyQ`	`yeah - try http://andyq.myby.co.uk/downloads/sfcave-sdl.tar.gz`
`16:57.24`	`warmi`	`thanks, I got it`
`16:57.43`	`George-`	`AndyQ: SFCave rocks ;)`
`16:58.10`	`AndyQ`	`George-: thanks`
`16:59.00`	`AndyQ`	`George-: checked out the new SDL version?`
`16:59.06`	`AndyQ`	`much prettier :)`
`17:00.00`	`kergoth`	`I still havent tried the sdl version`
`17:00.07`	`kergoth`	`but that could have to do with my Z being stuck in a console`
`17:00.21`	`AndyQ`	`hehe`
`17:00.29`	`George-`	`AndyQ: no`
`17:00.32`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: boot to opie :)`
`17:00.44`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: you mean 2.4.6? ;)`
`17:00.47`	`George-`	`kergoth: is that cuz of the 2.4.19 fiasco?`
`17:00.53`	`AndyQ`	`nope I mean 2.4.19 :)`
`17:00.55`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: this encourages me to finish it faster, then i get gui`
`17:01.01`	`AndyQ`	`lol`
`17:01.01`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: TS isnt happy yet`
`17:01.12`	`AndyQ`	`saw the update - doing well!`
`17:01.13`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: and qt's keyboard situation still needs fixing`
`17:01.18`	`kergoth`	`yeah, getting there`
`17:01.21`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: you don't need TS for SFCAve :)`
`17:01.31`	`AndyQ`	`keyboard is useful though`
`17:01.33`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: true, i could sfcave -qws`
`17:01.36`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: heh`
`17:01.37`	`kergoth`	`yep`
`17:01.54`	`kergoth`	`and I'm not fixing qt keyboard until suspend/resume works, and ts works`
`17:02.01`	`numatrix`	`warmi: Have you looked at the asm routines in zsnes? I'm just curious, but since it uses libsdl, it might be really nice to be able to port that to the Z, but with x86 asm code, it would not be happy. :-)`
`17:02.16`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: I wouldn't - last time i tried it from outside opie it was rotated wrong, and my Z suspended and wouldn't resume`
`17:03.04`	`warmi`	`numatrix: I was planning but never got around - for the last 5 months I was too busy to even get on irc :-)`
`17:03.28`	`warmi`	`numatrix: it is pain in the ass to port x86 asm code`
`17:03.30`	`numatrix`	`warmi: No problem, just figured I'd mention it. Last great emulated system left for the Z, probably. :-) I should get off my butt and learn the asm, but I'm too lazy myself.`
`17:03.32`	`AndyQ`	`warmi: that tip may work`
`17:03.39`	`warmi`	`it is much better to port C code to ARM ASM then porting X86 code`
`17:03.49`	`numatrix`	`warmi: Especially depending on how much of it they've done in asm.`
`17:03.55`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: hah. suspends outside of opie must be done manually with apm -s or bad things happen`
`17:04.03`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: but ahem that wont be the case in the new kernel`
`17:04.04`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: hehe`
`17:04.18`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: hehe - yeah you have to flight the battery switch`
`17:04.22`	`AndyQ`	`flick`
`17:04.26`	`*** part/#zaurus Cloudchaser_ (~Cloudchas@ool-182d0f58.dyn.optonline.net)`
`17:04.27`	`warmi`	`Andy: I see you create nice mini C++ framework around SDL`
`17:04.29`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: not a clue why is suspended though`
`17:04.31`	`warmi`	`created`
`17:04.57`	`AndyQ`	`warmi: yeah - wanted a flexible way of extending changing stuff without breaking the rest of it`
`17:05.09`	`warmi`	`yeah, very nice`
`17:05.14`	`AndyQ`	`ta`
`17:05.15`	`warmi`	`that's how stuff should be done all the time`
`17:05.42`	`AndyQ`	`yeah - got pissed off with hacking through the original C++ version which was a real mess - decided to rewrite properly`
`17:05.50`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`17:05.59`	`warmi`	`very easy to read the code now`
`17:06.20`	`AndyQ`	`yup - just needs comments for 6 months later when I think - WTF?`
`17:06.49`	`warmi`	`one thing . . why do you have separate FlyTerrain derived from Terrain ?`
`17:07.14`	`warmi`	`oh ok ..`
`17:07.15`	`AndyQ`	`warmi: coz the FlyTerrain is used for the fly game and consists of just the bottom part`
`17:08.31`	`warmi`	`Andy: with this approach for scrolling - you can start filling with actual graphics instead of just color`
`17:08.38`	`AndyQ`	`yup`
`17:08.47`	`AndyQ`	`that may be possible later (maybe)`
`17:09.06`	`AndyQ`	`the commented out code in terrain is the filled stuff btw`
`17:09.07`	`warmi`	`just use tile that repeats and keep local variable for x position on that one and wrap it around`
`17:09.28`	`warmi`	`instead of drawing 4 lines just blit`
`17:09.59`	`AndyQ`	`yeah`
`17:10.20`	`warmi`	`Andy: the version on killefiz ( binary) is the older version or is it SDL one ?`
`17:10.46`	`AndyQ`	`the older version`
`17:10.54`	`AndyQ`	`AND WE NOW HAVE FILLED TERRAIN!!!!`
`17:10.56`	`AndyQ`	`woot!`
`17:11.00`	`kergoth`	`nice`
`17:11.10`	`warmi`	`does it run fast enough ?`
`17:11.14`	`AndyQ`	`yup`
`17:11.32`	`AndyQ`	`between 45-47 fps`
`17:11.45`	`AndyQ`	`which is not much slower than it previously was`
`17:11.49`	`warmi`	`well, that's more than enough`
`17:11.58`	`AndyQ`	`I'll get it packaged and put on my feed (0.5)`
`17:13.41`	`*** join/#zaurus prpplague (~JoeBob1@12.148.134.9)`
`17:13.41`	`George-`	`I want a Cray`
`17:13.44`	`AndyQ`	`OK, its there`
`17:14.27`	`George-`	`no.. I want the Earth Simulator`
`17:14.45`	`tux_mike`	`what would you do with it. it can't run any of your software.`
`17:15.12`	`George-`	`tux_mike: lol`
`17:15.18`	`George-`	`I dunno`
`17:15.36`	`George-`	`The wow factor of having a machine that can do 40 teraflops`
`17:15.59`	`George-`	`"I can calculate 1+1 in less time than you, nya nya nya"`
`17:16.06`	`George-`	`;)`
`17:16.11`	`tux_mike`	`not many people will be wowed`
`17:16.15`	`AndyQ`	`heh`
`17:16.35`	`George-`	`tux_mike: I'm joking`
`17:17.19`	`George-`	`what does the ES _do_ anyway`
`17:19.18`	`warmi`	`simulates earth ?`
`17:19.31`	`tux_mike`	`gah`
`17:19.33`	`George-`	`lol`
`17:19.34`	`warmi`	`like , you know, cloud formations , air movement`
`17:19.35`	`mark`	`hi *`
`17:19.38`	`tux_mike`	`i can't get to my email from evolution`
`17:19.40`	`warmi`	`stuff like that`
`17:19.53`	`tux_mike`	`hey mar?`
`17:21.08`	`George-`	`warmi: what does it run�`
`17:21.10`	`George-`	`er..`
`17:21.11`	`George-`	`?`
`17:21.24`	`warmi`	`I have no clue`
`17:21.26`	`*** join/#zaurus asys3 (~uwe@dialin-145-254-145-138.arcor-ip.net)`
`17:21.32`	`warmi`	`I just remember reading about it some time ago`
`17:21.47`	`George-`	`ssh earthsimulator ;)`
`17:21.48`	`George-`	`uptime`
`17:21.53`	`George-`	`lol`
`17:22.26`	`warmi`	`I would love to be able to play with world simulator - not earth - but more like a political/social/military world simulator`
`17:22.41`	`warmi`	`withe every nation , conflict , etc modelled`
`17:22.53`	`George-`	`hehe`
`17:23.05`	`George-`	`DECLARE WAR ON COUNTRY_X :)`
`17:23.18`	`tux_mike`	`see the outcome of the upcoming war in the mideast without actually going through it`
`17:23.32`	`warmi`	`nah .. not that simple - you would have to operate within limits impossed by your political system etc ..`
`17:24.02`	`warmi`	`so for example, it woldn't be that easy for someone playing USA to declare war`
`17:24.19`	`warmi`	`they would have to go thru usual notions like convincing the public , congress , allies etc ..`
`17:26.34`	`warmi`	`hmm .somebody ported Dasher to the ZAurus`
`17:26.47`	`George-`	`warmi: but in soviet russia.. ;)`
`17:27.23`	`warmi`	`George-: only during Stalin rule`
`17:27.25`	`George-`	`should I upgrade to OZ 3.1rc1?`
`17:27.28`	`mark`	`warmi: did they? where?`
`17:27.32`	`George-`	`warmi: haha`
`17:27.36`	`George-`	`what's Dasher?`
`17:27.39`	`warmi`	`http://www.killefiz.de/zaurus/showdetail.php?app=812`
`17:28.03`	`warmi`	`George: a new, experimental way of entering text in PDAs without using keyboard ( of course)`
`17:28.19`	`warmi`	`I am not sure how well it works but there was even an article about that on /. some time ago`
`17:28.21`	`mark`	`warmi: hmm, thats the dasher main page, sure there is a qtopia port?`
`17:28.49`	`warmi`	`hmm .. so why is it on killefiz ?`
`17:28.54`	`warmi`	`I asumed there was qtopia port`
`17:29.00`	`George-`	`isn't jumpx meant to be really really fast?`
`17:29.02`	`treke`	`warmi: probably the x11 port`
`17:29.10`	`warmi`	`but it looks like there is only a generic tar.gz port`
`17:29.11`	`warmi`	`yeah`
`17:29.19`	`warmi`	`George-: jumpx ?`
`17:29.50`	`treke`	`thats one of my big beefs with zsi :)`
`17:29.59`	`tux_mike`	`ok, where the hell is evolution getting it's configuration from!`
`17:30.09`	`warmi`	`well, I am not sure about usability of Dasher - these flying rects are sure annoying`
`17:30.26`	`warmi`	`treke: you mean allowing stuff that doesn't work with Qtopia out of the box ?`
`17:31.00`	`treke`	`warmi: Well I dont mind that as much. It would be nice to be able to filter that sort of stuff though`
`17:32.15`	`warmi`	`yeah, I got all excited about all these emulators for the zaurus - like Amiga one etc .. and it turns out this stuff needs X11 to run`
`17:32.20`	`warmi`	`that's not a port - that's cheating`
`17:32.21`	`warmi`	`heeh`
`17:33.33`	`mark`	`:)`
`17:34.05`	`treke`	`same with all the console apps`
`17:34.22`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`17:34.37`	`kergoth`	`port != just crosscompile`
`17:34.39`	`kergoth`	`:)`
`17:34.57`	`treke`	`I dont even really consider it a zaurus application.`
`17:34.58`	`warmi`	`well, actualy console apps are more usable than X11 (ports) since one can at least run this stuff on his/her zaurus right away`
`17:36.12`	`warmi`	`we need more ports like that :http://freshmeat.net/projects/gtktrue/`
`17:36.46`	`*** join/#zaurus badalex (~badalex@cpe-66-1-177-91.ut.sprintbbd.net)`
`17:36.59`	`mark`	`warmi: HEHEH`
`17:37.06`	`George-`	`is a high score of 4000 on SFCave "fly" good? :)`
`17:37.33`	`warmi`	`it is better than 3000`
`17:37.59`	`George-`	`lol`
`17:38.00`	`warmi`	`I will have to try cave tonight`
`17:38.17`	`George-`	`wtf is /bin/true?`
`17:38.37`	`numatrix`	`George-: something that always returns true.`
`17:38.38`	`*** join/#zaurus tux_mike (~mike@dsl081-228-057.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`17:39.06`	`numatrix`	`George-: useful like /usr/bin/yes or /dev/null. Just comes in handy sometimes.`
`17:39.07`	`warmi`	`George-: look at the screenshots ..`
`17:39.11`	`George-`	`numatrix: isn't it a bit useless? :)`
`17:39.35`	`numatrix`	`George-: Sorta, but like I said, it comes in handy sometimes I suppose. Don't ask me for a good example right now though. ;-)`
`17:39.56`	`George-`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:40.01`	`warmi`	`it is as handy as number 1 as used in say while(1)`
`17:40.03`	`warmi`	`heeh`
`17:40.08`	`George-`	`Exit with a status code indicating success.`
`17:40.13`	`George-`	`rofl`
`17:40.19`	`kergoth`	`warmi: exactly`
`17:40.26`	`kergoth`	`George-: in a shell. while true; do echo blah; done`
`17:41.21`	`George-`	`uhm`
`17:41.34`	`George-`	`a frontend for true..`
`17:41.36`	`George-`	`lol`
`17:41.40`	`kergoth`	`?`
`17:41.48`	`kergoth`	`frontend? while loops based on exit code`
`17:41.53`	`kergoth`	`of the command you supply it`
`17:42.11`	`kergoth`	`hence you need a binary whose exit code is always success, to loop indefinately`
`17:42.14`	`George-`	`kergoth: http://freshmeat.net/projects/gtktrue/`
`17:42.21`	`kergoth`	`oh that`
`17:42.22`	`kergoth`	`right`
`17:42.26`	`kergoth`	`stupidity`
`17:42.30`	`George-`	`lol`
`17:42.33`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`17:42.34`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`17:42.43`	`warmi`	`well, it is translated stupidity`
`17:42.47`	`warmi`	`multiple languages`
`17:43.13`	`George-`	`It has full i18n support! Hell yeh!!!`
`17:44.15`	`warmi`	`man, it would be nice to have fully working - 100 % correct translator between languages`
`17:44.48`	`warmi`	`I would then have more room in my head for other stuff instead of wasting my brain real estate trying to learn all these foreign languages`
`17:45.26`	`treke`	`warmi: too much work. just force everyone to speak english`
`17:45.51`	`numatrix`	`emerge telepathy; probe concepts > loc.conctps; xlate -d loc.concpts -t 'my thought' \| xmit BCAST;`
`17:46.09`	`warmi`	`well, English is very good for describing technical stuff but I know better languages for other things ..`
`17:46.12`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`17:46.33`	`treke`	`yeah, but then I'd have to learn a different language.`
`17:46.42`	`numatrix`	`warmi: Like romance? Nothing like hearing a little guteral german from a young, pretty lady. ;-)`
`17:46.50`	`warmi`	`numatrix: hehehe`
`17:47.14`	`tux_mike`	`or if you need anger, speak some russian :)`
`17:47.16`	`warmi`	`yeah, as I said before ,.. if Hitler was speaking French nobody would take him seriously`
`17:47.40`	`warmi`	`nah .. nothing beats german - even their "I love you" sounds like a threat`
`17:47.43`	`tux_mike`	`warmi: does anyone take any person speaking french seriously? :)`
`17:47.46`	`tux_mike`	`lol`
`17:47.51`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: hehehe`
`17:48.20`	`warmi`	`of course, for someone speaking german it doesn't make any difference`
`17:48.25`	`tux_mike`	`warmi: how many languages do you know?`
`17:48.46`	`numatrix`	`I like using Chinese to sing childrens songs. Mainly because that's about the extent of my chinese, but it gets me really strange looks. Especially from chinese people. One girl about fell of the sidewalk when she passed me as I was singing and suddenly she understood it.`
`17:48.54`	`warmi`	`well, Polish, English, Russian, Czech and understand German but don't speak it too well anymore`
`17:49.16`	`warmi`	`numatrix: hehehe`
`17:49.23`	`tux_mike`	`that's pretty good`
`17:49.34`	`tux_mike`	`i really wish i grew up at least bi-lingual`
`17:49.59`	`warmi`	`well, I can also understand some Serb ( as I learned watching US TV some time ago ) but that's accidental`
`17:50.04`	`numatrix`	`tux_mike: heck of a lot better than us lazy americans.`
`17:50.16`	`warmi`	`obviously that's slavic language and therefore similar to what I know`
`17:50.38`	`warmi`	`numatrix: well, you don't need to learn any other languages`
`17:50.56`	`treke`	`except spanish :)`
`17:51.08`	`warmi`	`yeah, that's true`
`17:51.30`	`treke`	`although thats only a couple of areas of the us`
`17:51.38`	`tux_mike`	`numatrix: i'm having a hell of a time just learning one new language`
`17:51.55`	`warmi`	`once you know spanish , it wouldn't be that hard to pick up Italian and perhaps French - they all are Romanic languages ( as opposed to Germanic like English, Dutch and German)`
`17:52.18`	`kolla`	`and scandinavian :)`
`17:52.23`	`warmi`	`yeah ..`
`17:52.37`	`tux_mike`	`i personally think everyone shoudl be bilingual. it's great for the brain`
`17:53.05`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: yeah , two languages are more than enough - these days when I try to speak Russian - English comes out`
`17:53.14`	`warmi`	`it get's confusing after a while`
`17:53.19`	`treke`	`hehe`
`17:53.20`	`tux_mike`	`heh`
`17:53.30`	`George-`	`ARGH!`
`17:53.30`	`treke`	`its tough when no one around speaks the language`
`17:53.41`	`kolla`	`I only had one year of spanish and one year of french at school, but even that was enough to grasp quite a bit of a conversation`
`17:54.24`	`warmi`	`treke: yeah, before I came here I tried to learn English without any tapes ro anything - I could speak it but I could not understand a thing when spoken by a native English speaker`
`17:54.38`	`George-`	`I understand mandarin fluently, heh`
`17:54.49`	`badalex`	`warmi: lol`
`17:54.59`	`treke`	`I used to be able to understand quite a bit of spanish when I lived in LA and heard it all the time :)`
`17:55.08`	`warmi`	`well, you need to be exposed to native speakers to learn it well`
`17:55.11`	`treke`	`and I could speak it understandably`
`17:55.57`	`warmi`	`to this day I find understanding British English much harder`
`17:56.04`	`kolla`	`portuguese as it is spoken in portugal is pretty... ungraspable :)`
`17:56.06`	`George-`	`warmi: why?`
`17:56.06`	`warmi`	`when I watch Monthy Python - I need subtitles`
`17:56.08`	`warmi`	`heh`
`17:56.17`	`George-`	`lol`
`17:56.17`	`warmi`	`George-: cause you guys talk different ?`
`17:56.18`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`17:56.24`	`George-`	`warmi: hah =P`
`17:56.31`	`tux_mike`	`warmi: you are not the only one who can't understand under a brittish accent :)`
`17:56.41`	`tux_mike`	`i have a hard time, and i'm a native english speaker`
`17:56.43`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`17:57.00`	`kolla`	`well, especially the upp class english is difficult, I think`
`17:57.03`	`kolla`	`upper class`
`17:57.30`	`warmi`	`George: no offsense, but when I hear British - it seems as if they were talking with their mouth full`
`17:57.31`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`17:57.38`	`George-`	`lol`
`17:57.40`	`AndyQ`	`hehe`
`17:57.41`	`tux_mike`	`it takes time for me to understand anything from anyone with thick accents`
`17:57.43`	`treke`	`hehe, sounds right :)`
`17:57.50`	`George-`	`depends who you talk to`
`17:57.54`	`George-`	`there are so many different accents`
`17:58.04`	`kolla`	`scottish is ok`
`17:58.09`	`kolla`	`and irish`
`17:58.09`	`warmi`	`as far as I am concerned there is only one British :-)`
`17:58.21`	`warmi`	`of course, I do recongnize Irish`
`17:58.26`	`warmi`	`it is a bit different`
`17:58.27`	`kolla`	`irish english I mean`
`17:58.42`	`kolla`	`dont grasp any gaelic other than slainte :)`
`17:58.53`	`George-`	`FFS I KEEP DYING!`
`17:58.56`	`George-`	`grrr`
`17:59.48`	`kolla`	`the english spoken at BBC is ok also`
`17:59.56`	`warmi`	`I started recognizing Scottish after watchin BraveHeart`
`17:59.59`	`warmi`	`heh`
`18:00.02`	`George-`	`what does "dratsab" mean?`
`18:00.09`	`AndyQ`	`bastard backwards`
`18:00.17`	`warmi`	`yeah, BBC I can understand but , as I mentioned, Monthy Python is much harder`
`18:00.22`	`kolla`	`:)`
`18:00.24`	`tux_mike`	`kolla: almost all newscasters train for a midwestern american accent. it's the easiest to understand`
`18:00.49`	`George-`	`AndyQ: oic`
`18:00.55`	`*** part/#zaurus numatrix (~jwiens@psifertex.nerdc.ufl.edu)`
`18:00.55`	`AndyQ`	`hehe`
`18:01.08`	`kolla`	`tux_mike: what you hear from BBC is definetly not american :)`
`18:01.37`	`warmi`	`on the other hand, even janitor sounds noble when speaking with British accent :-)`
`18:01.44`	`tux_mike`	`kolla: i'm just saying they train for it, they don't necisarilly get it. brittish accents are very hard to crack`
`18:01.46`	`warmi`	`not that janitors aren't noble or anything ..`
`18:01.47`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`18:02.21`	`AndyQ`	`british accents are dead easy - its scottish ones (expecially very broad scortish) that are real buggers!`
`18:02.33`	`AndyQ`	`although being british helps I guess :)`
`18:02.33`	`tux_mike`	`but then you have someone like me who doesn't care for nobility, and they all sound funny :)`
`18:02.40`	`warmi`	`AndyQ: yeah. I can tell you that Polish is dead easy as well - not to mention Russian :-)`
`18:02.47`	`AndyQ`	`lol`
`18:02.48`	`George-`	`AndyQ: there are some really strong british accents though ;)`
`18:03.09`	`George-`	`esp up north :)`
`18:03.21`	`AndyQ`	`George-: yeah - cockney, midlands, brummie, cornish, mancunian just to name a couple`
`18:03.35`	`George-`	`AndyQ: you call that a couple? =P`
`18:03.35`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: hehe .. yeah, that's true but if someone plays a knight or a king, speaking with southern US accent just won't cut it`
`18:03.45`	`AndyQ`	`I could go on and on and on :)`
`18:03.52`	`tux_mike`	`yah`
`18:04.00`	`warmi`	`Andy: which part of UK are you from ?`
`18:04.11`	`kolla`	`AndyQ: scottish has a distinct and comprehencable pronounciation, unlike poms english where all words seem to end on "ah" :)`
`18:04.15`	`tux_mike`	`just imagine Theoden King without a type of brittish accent :)`
`18:04.20`	`kolla`	`and they know how to pronounce r`
`18:04.21`	`kolla`	`:)`
`18:04.27`	`warmi`	`hahaha`
`18:04.43`	`AndyQ`	`originally from Newcastle (but 3 weeks doesn't really count), then 7 years in Rochdale followed by the rest down south (near Windsor)`
`18:05.03`	`AndyQ`	`kolla: your having a laugh :)`
`18:05.14`	`tux_mike`	`http://www.bonsaiweb.com/show/showtree.php?673 anyone want their own personal california giant redwood? :)`
`18:05.37`	`treke`	`only if I can shop it up and make a hippy cry`
`18:05.43`	`warmi`	`yeah, my wife once bought one like that`
`18:05.49`	`warmi`	`it died within 3 weeks or so`
`18:06.17`	`George-`	`lol`
`18:06.19`	`warmi`	`but they do look cool`
`18:06.20`	`tux_mike`	`well, if you buy from a store, commonly the rocks will be glued to the soil, and the glue kills the tree`
`18:06.34`	`tux_mike`	`i'm thinking about getting into growing them`
`18:06.38`	`George-`	`argh.. game over ;(`
`18:06.42`	`George-`	`WAAAAAAAAAAAA`
`18:06.51`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: I know nothing about that - but I assume she did since she has whole bunch of different "green stuff" all over the house`
`18:07.04`	`tux_mike`	`heh`
`18:07.10`	`tux_mike`	`yah`
`18:07.10`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: commercially ?`
`18:07.23`	`tux_mike`	`no. takes too long`
`18:07.34`	`tux_mike`	`takes about 5 years to get a decent tree going`
`18:07.42`	`warmi`	`yeah, that's too long`
`18:08.16`	`tux_mike`	`it's better to do it yourself anyway if you are serious about it, because you can shape it the way you want`
`18:08.28`	`warmi`	`yeah, I guess`
`18:08.33`	`warmi`	`but that is like keeping a pet`
`18:08.39`	`warmi`	`you got to actually take care of it :-)`
`18:08.43`	`warmi`	`and that's the problem`
`18:09.15`	`tux_mike`	`requires less care than most pets. requires daily watering, biweekly feeding, and the ocasional pruning and shaping`
`18:09.27`	`warmi`	`ah forget it`
`18:09.35`	`warmi`	`my machine just needs power :-)`
`18:09.44`	`tux_mike`	`lol`
`18:10.04`	`tux_mike`	`i also got a goofy idea for xmas time`
`18:10.05`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: you have a cat right ?`
`18:10.13`	`tux_mike`	`my family has them`
`18:10.19`	`tux_mike`	`i don't like cats`
`18:10.27`	`George-`	`I give up`
`18:10.39`	`tux_mike`	`and if i grow bonsai, and they go for my trees, they aren't gonna be happy`
`18:10.54`	`AndyQ`	`bye - & warmi - thanks for the help`
`18:11.03`	`warmi`	`Too independently-minded for you tux ?`
`18:11.05`	`AndyQ`	`happy new year to you all`
`18:11.10`	`warmi`	`AndyQ: yeah , same to you`
`18:11.18`	`George-`	`uhm`
`18:11.25`	`George-`	`Should I get OZ 3.1rc1?`
`18:11.30`	`George-`	`Or should I wait for 2..4.19?`
`18:11.43`	`tux_mike`	`they are too fickle. and not very loyal, like the dogs`
`18:11.54`	`warmi`	`yeah, I know`
`18:13.00`	`warmi`	`but they make this "mrmrmr" noise all the time ...`
`18:13.02`	`warmi`	`I love that`
`18:13.13`	`warmi`	`you have to get close but you can hear it - all the time`
`18:13.42`	`tux_mike`	`my sister's cat is the best, he's actually sociable. unlike my mom's cat.`
`18:13.46`	`*** join/#zaurus Pendalar_ (Pendalar@68.114.158.191)`
`18:14.27`	`warmi`	`like it wiggles his tail when she is around ?`
`18:14.28`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`18:14.39`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`18:14.51`	`warmi`	`well, cats are only sociable when it is time for feeding`
`18:14.52`	`tux_mike`	`my mom's cat is like some snotty rich person`
`18:15.15`	`Twiun`	`wiggles its banknotes at you?`
`18:15.22`	`warmi`	`heh`
`18:16.32`	`warmi`	`Twiun: what time is it over there ? lik 8 PM ?`
`18:17.07`	`warmi`	`I got to call some folks in Poland before they all get too drunk`
`18:17.20`	`tux_mike`	`lol`
`18:17.38`	`tux_mike`	`nothin like pulling in the new year hammered`
`18:17.52`	`George-`	`why this discussion about CATS? =P`
`18:17.56`	`warmi`	`well, is there any other way to enter the new year ?`
`18:17.56`	`tux_mike`	`warmi: you could always check the world clock on your Z`
`18:17.57`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`18:17.58`	`George-`	`lol`
`18:18.00`	`darienm`	`Any FreeBSD users hanging out today?`
`18:18.08`	`George-`	`kergoth: ping`
`18:18.14`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: yeah, but I don't have it with me`
`18:18.46`	`warmi`	`darien: my buddy sitting next to me at work is former FreeBSD user`
`18:19.20`	`warmi`	`he is asking "what do you want" with a heavy Indian accent`
`18:19.21`	`warmi`	`heeh`
`18:19.27`	`Twiun`	`warmi: not quite... it's 18:30`
`18:19.55`	`George-`	`warmi: what IRC client do you use, just out of interest?`
`18:19.56`	`warmi`	`well, continental Europe is one h ahead I believe`
`18:20.06`	`Twiun`	`aye`
`18:20.12`	`warmi`	`George-: now I use cgiIRC to get around firewall`
`18:20.25`	`George-`	`warmi: cool, where from?`
`18:20.30`	`George-`	`(ie - what URL)`
`18:20.47`	`warmi`	`http://cgiirc.sourceforge.net/`
`18:20.59`	`George-`	`that's the development URL isn't it?`
`18:21.08`	`kergoth`	`George-: pong`
`18:21.09`	`warmi`	`very cool - feels almost like a standalone client -with tabs for different channels etc`
`18:21.25`	`George-`	`kergoth: when is 2.4.19 likely to be finished (ie will it be finished before monday)`
`18:21.41`	`warmi`	`George-: I don't know that's the URL displayed in their "about screen"`
`18:21.42`	`kergoth`	`George-: before monday? yeah.`
`18:22.27`	`warmi`	`George-: this is how it look :http://cgiirc.sourceforge.net/img/screen-ie.png`
`18:22.29`	`warmi`	`very cool`
`18:22.34`	`warmi`	`looks even`
`18:22.51`	`George-`	`warmi: yeh, but which actual client are you using?`
`18:22.54`	`treke`	`interesting`
`18:23.08`	`warmi`	`what do you mean "actual client " ?`
`18:23.30`	`warmi`	`this is the client - a perl app running on my home web server which I am accesing using my browser at work :-)`
`18:23.50`	`warmi`	`if you mean what I use at home - then I use either Pirch on Windows or xchat on Linux`
`18:24.12`	`George-`	`warmi: well CGI:IRC runs on a website`
`18:24.24`	`George-`	`warmi: which website do you access to access the CGI:IRC on it to access OPN`
`18:24.26`	`George-`	`:)`
`18:24.38`	`warmi`	`I access my own web site : irc.warmi.net`
`18:24.43`	`George-`	`ahh`
`18:24.45`	`kergoth`	`"running on my home web server"`
`18:24.47`	`George-`	`can I use it? ;)`
`18:24.48`	`kergoth`	`he just said`
`18:24.49`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`18:25.15`	`warmi`	`George: no, cause most IRC servers will refuse multiple connections from a single host`
`18:25.44`	`George-`	`warmi: ok`
`18:26.05`	`warmi`	`don't you have your own web server somewhere ?`
`18:26.11`	`warmi`	`it is very easy to install`
`18:26.13`	`George-`	`I'm on 56k`
`18:26.21`	`warmi`	`well, enough for irc :-)`
`18:26.30`	`George-`	`I can't be connected up all the time either :)`
`18:26.56`	`warmi`	`well, then .. well , you are screwed :-)`
`18:27.16`	`George-`	`lol`
`18:27.54`	`tux_mike`	`george: why do you want to use cgi irc anyway`
`18:28.02`	`tux_mike`	`i concider something like that a last resort`
`18:28.06`	`George-`	`tux_mike: cause at school I have a fascist firewall`
`18:28.11`	`warmi`	`most likely because his school firewall is blocking IRC port`
`18:28.12`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`18:28.16`	`warmi`	`the same problem I have`
`18:28.37`	`George-`	`the other problem I have is that when someone swears in CGI:IRC, the client dies`
`18:28.41`	`George-`	`cuz of stupid firewalling`
`18:28.46`	`George-`	`swear words are banned`
`18:28.50`	`warmi`	`George-: a firewall duty is to be "facists"`
`18:28.52`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`18:29.04`	`tux_mike`	`run cgi:irc over ssl`
`18:29.05`	`George-`	`warmi: not as fascist as blocking the word "download" ffs`
`18:29.05`	`warmi`	`George-: really ?`
`18:29.11`	`George-`	`tux_mike: and ssl is banned`
`18:29.14`	`warmi`	`they actually block "swear words" ?`
`18:29.15`	`tux_mike`	`WHAT!?`
`18:29.29`	`tux_mike`	`then run ssl over port 80`
`18:29.31`	`warmi`	`George-: then swear in Polish or German or something like that :-)`
`18:29.32`	`kergoth`	`George-: so run ssl over 80`
`18:29.33`	`kergoth`	`right`
`18:29.35`	`kergoth`	`heheh`
`18:29.39`	`George-`	`tux_mike: can ssl be run over port 80? :)`
`18:29.47`	`George-`	`ok, school r0x0r time`
`18:29.55`	`tux_mike`	`yes`
`18:29.57`	`tux_mike`	`anything can`
`18:30.09`	`*** join/#zaurus pole (foobar@c-24-118-80-93.mn.client2.attbi.com)`
`18:30.27`	`tux_mike`	`to access you type in https://server.name.com:80/directory/file.html`
`18:30.33`	`*** join/#zaurus ^X^ (x@12-232-116-199.client.attbi.com)`
`18:30.40`	`George-`	`tux_mike: hrmm`
`18:31.04`	`George-`	`hrmm`
`18:31.10`	`George-`	`If I get caught doing this though.. ;)`
`18:31.32`	`Neo\|Work`	`morning`
`18:31.35`	`tux_mike`	`i hate content based firewalls`
`18:31.36`	`kergoth`	`hey neo`
`18:31.44`	`*** join/#zaurus ljp_work (ljp_work@01-125.026.popsite.net)`
`18:31.46`	`George-`	`tux_mike: I hate the school firewall`
`18:32.54`	`tux_mike`	`leet people dont run win2k`
`18:32.58`	`tux_mike`	`oh, wait, they do`
`18:33.04`	`tux_mike`	`they only talk about not using it :)`
`18:33.18`	`Neo\|Work`	`ibot seen jasonnj`
`18:33.24`		`jasonnj <~perlowj@gatekeepernj3.sharpsec.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #openzaurus, 21h 10m ago, saying: 'I havent tried the zaurus OCing tool yet'.`
`18:34.20`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: you got that one right`
`18:34.26`	`ljp_work`	`oh, but win2k is MS's best os`
`18:34.28`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`18:34.38`	`tux_mike`	`ms's best os is still shit`
`18:34.58`	`ljp_work`	`naa, win2k is fine.`
`18:35.04`	`warmi`	`ljp_work:right again - man .. you all seem to be just bursting with wisdom today`
`18:35.05`	`George-`	`kergoth: if I flash OZ 3.1-rc1 now, will I be able to just shove the zImage on the CF card later, and flash over the 2.4.6 kernel with the new 2.4.19 one, without destroying the filesystem?`
`18:35.15`	`kergoth`	`George-: yes`
`18:35.20`	`kergoth`	`George-: you can flash kernel and rootfs independently`
`18:35.21`	`George-`	`kergoth: great`
`18:35.29`	`kergoth`	`George-: though you'll have to install the new kernel modules package :)`
`18:35.34`	`George-`	`blah`
`18:35.35`	`George-`	`lol`
`18:35.36`	`George-`	`ok`
`18:35.40`	`tux_mike`	`ljp: this is from the people who brought you dos`
`18:36.06`	`ljp_work`	`no, they didnt write dos`
`18:36.07`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: DOOM run on DOS - so it can't be that bad ..`
`18:36.08`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`18:36.08`	`George-`	`Windows is evil!`
`18:36.20`	`tux_mike`	`doom runs better under linux`
`18:36.21`	`kergoth`	`mm doom`
`18:36.27`	`warmi`	`actually it run on DOS extender`
`18:36.46`	`George-`	`http://www.userfriendly.org`
`18:36.47`	`George-`	`rofl`
`18:36.52`	`ljp_work`	`the day cubase runs as well on linux as on windows, is the day I get rid of win2k`
`18:36.52`	`George-`	`look at todays strip ;)`
`18:37.04`	`George-`	`cubase?`
`18:37.16`	`ljp_work`	`www.steibnerg.net`
`18:37.22`	`ljp_work`	`steinberg.net`
`18:37.33`	`ljp_work`	`fine german engineering`
`18:37.47`	`George-`	`are you german? =P`
`18:37.52`	`ljp_work`	`partly`
`18:37.57`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`18:38.00`	`ljp_work`	`some ancestors were`
`18:38.06`	`tux_mike`	`zee germans`
`18:38.06`	`George-`	`same with KDE developers`
`18:38.19`	`warmi`	`yeah ... "zee germans are coming .. "`
`18:38.20`	`ljp_work`	`I'd say about 85% opie devs are german`
`18:38.33`	`George-`	`why are they all german! :)`
`18:38.35`	`treke`	`the rest are lgp`
`18:38.41`	`ljp_work`	`most opie _users_ are german`
`18:38.43`	`treke`	`er ljp`
`18:38.52`	`tux_mike`	`i'd like to go driving in germany some day`
`18:38.55`	`treke`	`George-: its a qt thing`
`18:38.55`	`tux_mike`	`that'd be fun`
`18:38.58`	`treke`	`germans like qt`
`18:39.04`	`George-`	`lol`
`18:39.08`	`warmi`	`cause German like doing boring stuff ( and since somebody has to do it anyway - no problem there )`
`18:39.09`	`warmi`	`heh`
`18:39.20`	`George-`	`hahaha`
`18:39.21`	`warmi`	`treke: nah .. everyone likes Qt`
`18:39.29`	`ljp_work`	`cause germans are really hi techies, and open sourcie`
`18:39.34`	`warmi`	`tons of people in US and elsewhere like and use Qt`
`18:39.49`	`George-`	`yeh, esp germany`
`18:40.00`	`ljp_work`	`I've heard open source is _big_ in germany`
`18:40.22`	`warmi`	`I don't think it is bigger than in US where actually the entire concept originated :-)`
`18:40.43`	`ljp_work`	`percentage wise it is`
`18:41.04`	`warmi`	`I think if you walk into your average German office , you will still see a sea of computers running Windows`
`18:41.27`	`ljp_work`	`but, of course, this is all third hand knowledge, youd have to talk to tronicasl, sandman, harlekin, zecke, till, mickey... etc..`
`18:41.44`	`ljp_work`	`groucho`
`18:42.01`	`tux_mike`	`you should talk to zee germans :)`
`18:42.01`	`mark`	`ibot: logs`
`18:42.02`		`http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/`
`18:42.04`	`George-`	`tronicasl = tronical = simon haussman right?`
`18:42.07`	`warmi`	`hehehehe`
`18:42.12`	`ljp_work`	`tronical`
`18:42.15`	`kergoth`	`George-: yes`
`18:42.30`	`George-`	`ok`
`18:42.34`	`George-`	`;)`
`18:42.53`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: I understand you have seen that British commedy ...`
`18:43.01`	`warmi`	`I forgot the title now ..`
`18:43.24`	`tux_mike`	`i belive i've only seen it in passing`
`18:43.26`	`warmi`	`but it was the one where they refered to "zee Germans" all the time`
`18:43.36`	`George-`	`Dad's Army?`
`18:43.44`	`warmi`	`nah .. it was fairly recent`
`18:44.14`	`warmi`	`well, it was hillarius as most of British stuff is`
`18:44.50`	`George-`	`uhm`
`18:44.59`	`George-`	`was it a sitcom?`
`18:45.30`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: is that true that entire LOR trilogy is already done and they are just releasing movies in year long intervals ?`
`18:45.41`	`warmi`	`George-: no , it was a stand alone movie`
`18:45.47`	`George-`	`warmi: yes`
`18:46.04`	`treke`	`George-: The filming is done`
`18:46.22`	`treke`	`George-: There is still editing/music/special effects to do`
`18:46.31`	`George-`	`treke:it's warmi that wants to know`
`18:46.33`	`George-`	`:)`
`18:46.36`	`mark`	`grr, i need logs from about 12 hours ago`
`18:46.40`	`warmi`	`a little British comedy that your average video rental store carries 1 or 2 copies of`
`18:46.49`	`warmi`	`hard to find , sitting in a corner`
`18:46.55`	`tux_mike`	`warmi: by now, the return of the king is prolly going through the most final stages of editinig`
`18:47.03`	`George-`	`http://home.earthlink.net/~zakariya/files/carddesk/carddesk3.png`
`18:47.16`	`warmi`	`mark: tought luck - ibot has a delay of about 24 hours`
`18:47.40`	`treke`	`I've got logs`
`18:47.50`	`mark`	`treke: can you grep for aboutToQuit please`
`18:47.55`	`warmi`	`and only for a 5$ a page you can have it mark ..`
`18:47.57`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`18:48.09`	`treke`	`http://home.treke.net/~ggilbert/logs/`
`18:48.12`	`treke`	`sure`
`18:48.53`	`treke`	`not found`
`18:49.12`	`treke`	`mark: here or #opie?`
`18:50.59`	`warmi`	`treke: how old is that log ?`
`18:51.01`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`18:51.28`	`treke`	`--- Log opened Tue Jul 02 19:15:37 2002`
`18:51.46`	`mark`	`treke: here`
`18:52.07`	`treke`	`mark: your the only person who has said that in my logs`
`18:52.32`	`mark`	`treke: i'm downloading at the massive rate of 9KB/s :)`
`18:52.38`	`mark`	`treke: erm, case sensitivity?`
`18:52.44`	`treke`	`good point`
`18:52.53`	`treke`	`mark: yeah my connection at home sucks sometimes :)`
`18:53.26`	`mark`	`treke: heh. not long ago 9KBs was amazing for me`
`18:53.56`	`warmi`	`mark: so true`
`18:53.58`	`*** join/#zaurus sukoshi (~lieben@dyn-212-232-23-75.ppp.tiscali.fr)`
`18:54.05`	`sukoshi`	`hi`
`18:54.10`	`mark`	`treke: if not, grep for cleanupQCop will you`
`18:54.25`	`warmi`	`hi sukoshi`
`18:54.58`	`sukoshi`	`for those interested, i found out a way to enable english menues on my SL-B500:)`
`18:55.18`	`sukoshi`	`(without losing the ability to enter japanese text on the Z)`
`18:55.20`	`warmi`	`kergoth: are they letting you guys off early today ?`
`18:55.33`	`kergoth`	`warmi: yeah, we'll be out in 2 hours or so`
`18:55.39`	`kergoth`	`sukoshi: hey, nice`
`18:55.42`	`kergoth`	`sukoshi: :)`
`18:55.44`	`treke`	`mark: from neo?`
`18:55.54`	`mark`	`treke: yesa`
`18:55.59`	`treke`	`k`
`18:56.23`	`warmi`	`Sl-B500 is a japanese version of 5600 ?`
`18:56.32`	`mark`	`warmi: right`
`18:56.33`	`sukoshi`	`kergoth: even if i can read japanese, the Zaurus is faster in english :)`
`18:56.49`	`sukoshi`	`http://sukoshi.free.fr/zaurus/`
`18:56.57`	`warmi`	`sukoshi: are you native Japanese speaker ?`
`18:57.05`	`sukoshi`	`not native at all`
`18:57.21`	`sukoshi`	`i am a native cheese eater indeed`
`18:57.28`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`18:57.36`	`sukoshi`	`(ok?)`
`18:57.49`	`warmi`	`well, your nick sounds Japanese ( as far as I can tell)`
`18:58.03`	`sukoshi`	`that is right, 'coz it is`
`18:58.03`	`warmi`	`I know you are in France though`
`18:58.34`	`*** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@m277-mp1.cvx1-b.man.dial.ntli.net)`
`18:58.41`	`warmi`	`Qtopia 1.5.2 built on: Dec 7th 2002`
`18:58.52`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`18:58.54`	`Neo\|Work`	`mark: got your app to exit yet?`
`18:59.28`	`sukoshi`	`kergoth: my debian is about to be ok (i'm now in gnome2)`
`18:59.33`	`mark`	`Neo\|Work: no, hehe. what do I do with this cleanup function? My xchat buffer got full`
`18:59.36`	`warmi`	`but on outside the GUI looks not all that different than 5500`
`18:59.55`	`kergoth`	`sukoshi: nice`
`19:00.22`	`Neo\|Work`	`mark: just either call it manually before ::exit or add an atexit(cleanupQCop); early in main`
`19:00.31`	`sukoshi`	`warmi: versioning for my B500 : embedix plus PDA V2.0, Qtopia for embedix 1.5.4 (07/12/02 too) kernel: 2.4.18-rmk7-pxa3-embedix`
`19:00.45`	`kergoth`	`2.4.18-rmk7-pxa3-embedix huh?`
`19:00.49`	`kergoth`	`hmm`
`19:00.53`	`warmi`	`sukoshi: yeah, that is what I was quoting ... I mistyped Qtopia version`
`19:00.57`	`warmi`	`very recent stuff`
`19:01.12`	`kergoth`	`hey`
`19:01.14`	`warmi`	`I know it supposed to be available in US in January or so`
`19:01.22`	`kergoth`	`i wonder how many gross hacks and horrid implementations are in that -embedix patch`
`19:01.26`	`mark`	`hehe`
`19:01.27`	`kergoth`	`bets anyone?`
`19:01.29`	`kergoth`	`;)`
`19:01.30`	`mark`	`kergoth: plenty i'm sure`
`19:01.43`	`sukoshi`	`the qpe-language & qpe-i18n packages even not for this release worked fine to enable english menu`
`19:01.58`	`George-`	`re`
`19:02.07`	`sukoshi`	`re`
`19:02.15`	`George-`	`kergoth: btw - does the ts calibration work on OZ 3.1rc1?`
`19:02.25`	`warmi`	`sukoshi: all the current Zaurus apps run fine on this one right ?`
`19:02.34`	`kergoth`	`George-: works fine`
`19:02.40`	`George-`	`kergoth: ahh, good`
`19:02.44`	`mark`	`Neo\|Work: hmm, still not working`
`19:02.45`	`George-`	`So I think I'll download it ;)`
`19:03.18`	`sukoshi`	`Does anyone know a good hoster for the Zaurus S series?`
`19:03.40`	`kergoth`	`hoster?`
`19:03.43`	`sukoshi`	`warmi: as far as i have tested everything is perfect except konqueror`
`19:03.49`	`sukoshi`	`holster ?`
`19:03.51`	`Neo\|Work`	`mark: are you sure you're actually exiting?`
`19:03.56`	`kergoth`	`ah`
`19:03.56`	`warmi`	`that's good`
`19:04.03`	`sukoshi`	`leather stuff to carry the Z in`
`19:04.06`	`Neo\|Work`	`does using qApp->exit(0) work better?`
`19:04.12`	`sukoshi`	`(sorry boyz i'm french ;) )`
`19:04.13`	`Neo\|Work`	`followed by an exit() in main`
`19:04.36`	`George-`	`sukoshi: oh yah, you have the SL-5600 don't you? asshole ;)`
`19:04.46`	`mark`	`Neo\|Work: i'll try`
`19:04.48`	`sukoshi`	`:p`
`19:04.57`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`19:05.09`	`warmi`	`George: man - you got to bit more sensitive :-)`
`19:05.27`	`sukoshi`	`George-: you just have to wait a few weeks, that is all`
`19:05.36`	`warmi`	`being British you don't call French assholes - any other combination of nationalities is OK but no that`
`19:05.37`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`19:06.00`	`George-`	`warmi: will "frog" do then? :)`
`19:06.07`	`George-`	`apparently they call us the "biftek" :)`
`19:06.08`	`warmi`	`oh well, I rest my case`
`19:06.13`	`George-`	`(no evidence to back it up)`
`19:06.28`	`kergoth`	`printk(KERN_CRIT "apm: Critical suspend was vetoed, expect armageddon\n" );`
`19:06.30`	`kergoth`	`haha`
`19:06.37`	`George-`	`lol`
`19:06.43`	`sukoshi`	`i only had my Z cause: 1/ i wanted one 2/ i've seen and been interested in OS 3/i could have a japanese for a very cheap price (cheaper than PPCfrom an awfully disliked company 4/ because i watch too much troma movies (www.troma.com)`
`19:06.45`	`kergoth`	`isnt lineo code fun?`
`19:06.50`	`Twiun`	`useful comments though`
`19:06.57`	`warmi`	`yeah, even kernel dudes get to have some fun from time to time`
`19:07.03`	`George-`	`sukoshi: cause you wanted one? selfish �*%� :)`
`19:07.07`	`kergoth`	`warmi: yeah. grep -nri fuck /usr/src/linux sometime ;)`
`19:07.31`	`warmi`	`sukoshi: you should have gone with c700 ?`
`19:07.36`	`George-`	`kergoth: I seem to recall "FUCK ME LIGHTLY WITH A CHAINSAW" being in the kernel src`
`19:07.41`	`warmi`	`I mean, that wasn't a question - a statement`
`19:07.58`	`kergoth`	`"If you don't see why, please stay the fuck away from my code."`
`19:08.16`	`treke`	`there are some great comments :)`
`19:08.23`	`warmi`	`George: your firewall won't let you download Linux source code ..`
`19:08.24`	`kergoth`	`arch/sparc/kernel/ptrace.c:69:/* Fuck me gently with a chainsaw... */`
`19:08.27`	`kergoth`	`indeed`
`19:08.29`	`sukoshi`	`George-: in the sparc folder (fuck me gently witha chainsaw)`
`19:08.43`	`mark`	`* Am I fucking pedantic or what? */`
`19:08.44`	`kergoth`	`sukoshi: ;)`
`19:08.45`	`treke`	`Wirzenius wrote this portably, Torvalds fucked it up :-)`
`19:08.48`	`ljp_work`	`there's pron in the kernel!`
`19:08.49`	`mark`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:09.22`	`sukoshi`	`search for suck too`
`19:09.25`	`warmi`	`one wonders how NT source code looks like ...`
`19:09.30`	`George-`	`rofl :)`
`19:09.30`	`warmi`	`I am sure it is sanitized`
`19:09.36`	`kergoth`	`drivers/char/drm/drmP.h:772:extern int DRM(release_fuck)(struct inode inode, struct file filp);`
`19:09.38`	`badl_`	`warmi: well why not grep that ;)`
`19:09.39`	`kergoth`	`hah`
`19:09.41`	`treke`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:09.41`	`kergoth`	`release_fuck()?`
`19:09.41`	`mark`	`Neo\|Work: still no joy :( - the app is definately exiting. but the qcop call seems to have no effect`
`19:09.54`	`treke`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:10.11`	`mark`	`/usr/src/linux/drivers/net/sunhme.c:958: /* Remember: "Different name, same old buggy as shit hardware." */`
`19:10.11`	`warmi`	`badl_ well ..hehe , you need source - I know some univeristies in US have access to the source code for NT`
`19:10.32`	`treke`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:10.36`	`badl_`	`opie today has a few fucks as well`
`19:10.39`	`kergoth`	`arch/arm/kernel/traps.c:373: * the fires of hell burn in your belly if you break this rule. ;)`
`19:10.59`	`sukoshi`	`Got to reboot see ya in a few minutes`
`19:11.08`	`treke`	`DWORD dontfuckwithme = 0x1F1 + pfh->samples * sizeof(SAMPLE669) + pfh->patterns * 0x600;`
`19:11.31`	`treke`	`opie has some nice variable names`
`19:11.39`	`George-`	`kfc... kernel fuck count :)`
`19:12.00`	`kergoth`	`treke: hah`
`19:12.03`	`warmi`	`DWORD dontfuckwithme hurts eyes - it should be DWORD dontFuckWithMe`
`19:12.07`	`treke`	`QPushButton* getridoffuckingstrippeldlinesbutton;`
`19:12.20`	`kergoth`	`warmi: you know what really annoys the piss out of me`
`19:12.27`	`kergoth`	`warmi: lineo uses c++ variable naming in kernel space`
`19:12.31`	`badl_`	`trekeyeah thats the one ;)`
`19:12.45`	`kergoth`	`CollieDACInit instead of collie_dac_init()`
`19:12.47`	`kergoth`	`bastards`
`19:12.54`	`warmi`	`kergoth: well, they want to get on with "times" perhaps :-)`
`19:12.57`	`badl_`	`thats the java way`
`19:12.59`	`Neo\|Work`	`mark: ok, so what is the current problem?`
`19:13.03`	`warmi`	`or just want to be diferent`
`19:13.04`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`19:13.05`	`Neo\|Work`	`black screen or leftover icon?`
`19:13.39`	`warmi`	`I personally prefer Java/Qt convention but if the kernel dudes use their own then surely it should be followed in any kernel related code`
`19:13.41`	`mark`	`Neo\|Work: i've moved back to x86 and i'm getting left over icon - but it appears all apps are leaving there icons here?`
`19:14.00`	`Neo\|Work`	`don't test this on the desktop - it works differently`
`19:14.07`	`George-`	`kergoth: you killed kenny^H^H^H^H^Htim riker!`
`19:14.10`	`Neo\|Work`	`meaning, it's not "running" apps but "recent and running" apps`
`19:14.15`	`kergoth`	`George-: hah, he doesnt count`
`19:14.21`	`mark`	`Neo\|Work: ah okay`
`19:14.22`	`George-`	`http://www.durak.org/sean/pubs/kfc/`
`19:14.24`	`George-`	`hahahaha`
`19:14.51`	`George-`	`kergoth: why not? he's a lineo coder dammit!`
`19:15.06`	`George-`	`afk`
`19:15.21`	`Neo\|Work`	`not anymore if I understand correctly`
`19:15.27`	`Neo\|Work`	`and he was the CTO too`
`19:15.35`	`warmi`	`durak.org hehehe`
`19:15.43`	`warmi`	`I wonder if it was on purpose`
`19:15.48`	`warmi`	`durak means "idiot" in Russian`
`19:16.19`	`treke`	`George-: When you are dictator, you get to choose who dies`
`19:17.02`	`treke`	`hmmm. ipkg needs a hold option like dpkg`
`19:17.35`	`Twiun`	`George-: it's a shame that page stopped at 2.2.16`
`19:19.35`	`warmi`	`1,895,964 lines of code`
`19:19.52`	`warmi`	`most of it probably for various device drivers`
`19:21.16`	`*** join/#zaurus mark\|downstairs (mark@s.westcott.freeuk.com)`
`19:21.29`	`*** join/#zaurus dwyl (~dwyl@ALagny-101-1-2-76.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`19:21.34`	`mark\|downstairs`	`Neo\|Work: right, black screen on my Z`
`19:21.45`	`warmi`	`NeoWork: have you tried compiling SDL stuff for the zaurus with GCC 3.x ?`
`19:22.11`	`warmi`	`someone was complaining that recompile of existing SDL libs with that compiler results in error message "multiple QApplication objects created"`
`19:22.34`	`mark\|downstairs`	`Neo\|Work: i'm hiding the window, processing events, deletign the window, then qApp->exit(0) and then exit(0) (and using atexit earlier)`
`19:22.36`	`badl_`	`warmi: wasn't that lorddavon?`
`19:22.44`	`warmi`	`badl_: I think so`
`19:23.13`	`warmi`	`mark: hehe .. qtopia "adventures"`
`19:23.39`	`mark\|downstairs`	`warmi: yea.. it sucks, really does`
`19:24.27`	`warmi`	`I thought the approach neo came up with ( the one listed in his dev diary) resolved all the issues with full scren handling with Qtopia`
`19:24.37`	`warmi`	`it wasn't prettty but I thought it did work 100% of the time`
`19:24.49`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: my code doesn't create multiple QApplications ever`
`19:24.58`	`Neo\|Work`	`perhaps they used the broken patch sent to the SDL list some time ago`
`19:25.05`	`mark\|downstairs`	`warmi: yeah the full screen stuff is fine with that, its the bloody icon thats a pain now :)`
`19:25.17`	`Neo\|Work`	`mark\|downstairs: if you click on the screen, does it refresh stuff etc?`
`19:25.23`	`Neo\|Work`	`i.e is the app gone?`
`19:25.23`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work: well, he claimed the same code works perfectly with 2.9 but results in this error when recompiled with 3.x`
`19:25.33`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: seriously doubt that`
`19:25.34`	`mark\|downstairs`	`Neo\|Work: no, the apps gone`
`19:25.49`	`warmi`	`badl_: wasn't that what lord_devon said ?`
`19:25.59`	`badl_`	`warmi: yep, something like that`
`19:26.09`	`Neo\|Work`	`mark\|downstairs: so again, icons and stuff show up when you press with the stylus or move arrow keys etc?`
`19:26.24`	`Neo\|Work`	`i.e you drew using QDirectPainter after you should have or something?`
`19:26.55`	`mark\|downstairs`	`Neo\|Work: no, nothing happens when i use the stylus or move keys, i'm force dto re boot`
`19:27.11`	`mark\|downstairs`	`forced to reboot*`
`19:27.39`	`Neo\|Work`	`uh. sounds like qpe is dead`
`19:28.01`	`Neo\|Work`	`and how you'd manage to kill that I don't know. :P`
`19:28.08`	`Neo\|Work`	`ssh in and check ps to see what's running`
`19:28.45`	`mark`	`Neo\|Work: i need to find SSH for retail rom`
`19:29.43`	`badl_`	`mark: its on zsi`
`19:29.48`	`badl_`	`ibot search zsi for ssh`
`19:31.30`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work : you might find this little thread interesting :http://forums.pocketmatrix.com/viewtopic.php?t=9130`
`19:32.09`	`*** part/#zaurus warmi (~a3c01503@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`19:32.13`	`*** join/#zaurus warmi (~a3c01503@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`19:36.35`	`mark\|downstairs`	`warmi: yeah interesting`
`19:45.43`	`nadav`	`hm`
`19:45.46`	`nadav`	`cygwin/`
`19:45.52`	`nadav`	`?>`
`19:45.59`	`nadav`	`god, i can't type`
`19:49.46`	`ljp_work`	`nope.. blackbox`
`19:49.56`	`ljp_work`	`runs on native code`
`19:50.21`	`ljp_work`	`I even think the windows version is a bit better`
`19:50.36`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`19:50.47`	`ljp_work`	`more dynamic at least`
`19:50.55`	`nadav`	`hm`
`19:50.59`	`kergoth`	`ljp_work: blackbox runs native? spiffy`
`19:51.00`	`nadav`	`cool`
`19:51.06`	`George-`	`nuhduhv!`
`19:51.08`	`kergoth`	`I should drop explorer and use that`
`19:51.09`	`nadav`	`got any screenshots?`
`19:51.11`	`George-`	`yo, sup man? =P`
`19:51.15`	`ljp_work`	`ya, google for blackbox for windows`
`19:51.15`	`nadav`	`pfft`
`19:51.17`	`nadav`	`not much`
`19:51.19`	`nadav`	`ok`
`19:51.27`	`George-`	`nadav: happy new year =)`
`19:51.39`	`nadav`	`same to you`
`19:51.39`	`nadav`	`:P`
`19:51.50`	`ljp_work`	`I use litespawn to change wm`
`19:52.16`	`George-`	`rm -rf openzaurus`
`19:52.21`	`George-`	`cp ROMIMAGE /mnt/cf`
`19:52.25`	`George-`	`umount /mnt/cf`
`19:52.25`	`George-`	`;)`
`19:52.28`	`kergoth`	`litespawn? man i havent used litestep in ages`
`19:52.35`	`kergoth`	`does litestep's themeing system suck any less yet?`
`19:52.47`	`nadav`	`hm`
`19:52.50`	`nadav`	`i gotta try`
`19:52.53`	`ljp_work`	`version 2 is a bit better`
`19:53.04`	`George-`	`what's litestep?`
`19:53.11`	`ljp_work`	`shell/wm`
`19:53.20`	`ljp_work`	`for windows`
`19:53.23`	`ljp_work`	`litestep.net`
`19:53.45`	`warmi`	`is it possible to read Palm .pdb files ?`
`19:54.04`	`warmi`	`I mean, is this a proprietary format ?`
`19:54.20`	`ljp_work`	`I think qtreader can read some`
`19:54.40`	`treke`	`warmi: the pdb format is pretty well documented, but the contents may not be`
`19:54.56`	`warmi`	`oh, so it is like xml`
`19:54.57`	`*** join/#zaurus br33zy (~br33zy@dt0f7n86.san.rr.com)`
`19:55.08`	`ljp_work`	`xchat also runs on windows`
`19:55.09`	`nadav`	`omg, thats just cool (blackbox on windows)`
`19:55.25`	`treke`	`http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/docs/fileformats/FileFormatsTOC.html`
`19:55.48`	`warmi`	`thanks`
`19:56.25`	`George-`	`why is OZ 3.0 called bastard, and OZ 3.1rc1 called the devil?`
`19:56.30`	`George-`	`Does OZ remind kergoth of himself?`
`19:56.34`	`kergoth`	`its called dratsab, not bastard`
`19:56.48`	`George-`	`kergoth: near enough =P`
`19:56.49`	`treke`	`drastab and lived?`
`19:56.59`	`kergoth`	`dratsab and the devil`
`19:57.00`	`kergoth`	`:)`
`19:57.04`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: not THAT interesting since it was mostly a question. :P`
`19:57.07`	`kergoth`	`we need a name for 3.1rc2 w/ 2.4.19`
`19:57.15`	`badl_`	`tunc`
`19:57.18`	`George-`	`kcuf ;)`
`19:57.20`	`ljp_work`	`bustah`
`19:57.25`	`nadav`	`tuna`
`19:57.33`	`George-`	`anchovy`
`19:57.34`	`warmi`	`well, this should tell you that is no real money to be made in PPC development`
`19:57.37`	`badl_`	`kergoth: tnuc i mean`
`19:57.37`	`ljp_work`	`how about ljp ?`
`19:57.49`	`George-`	`parc`
`19:57.56`	`warmi`	`2000 copies for the best selling title ? that's kind of ... low`
`19:57.57`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`19:58.54`	`George-`	`kergoth: how about htogreg_skcus? :)`
`19:58.57`	`George-`	`er.`
`19:59.03`	`George-`	`kergoth: how about htogrek_skcus? :)`
`19:59.09`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: I think it's too low personally`
`19:59.24`	`warmi`	`treke: well, I was talking about games - apps are a different matter`
`19:59.29`	`Neo\|Work`	`especially since best selling titles in general would get OEM deals`
`19:59.48`	`*** join/#zaurus TheMasterMind1 (~themaster@boron.tjhsst.edu)`
`19:59.52`	`warmi`	`OEM- you mean bundled with the hardware ?`
`19:59.55`	`George-`	`1337 + 666 = 2003`
`19:59.57`	`Neo\|Work`	`but in either case, sure, it's not the console market`
`19:59.59`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: yes`
`20:00.02`	`George-`	`(as stated on #2003) :)`
`20:00.55`	`badl_`	`George-: but 2002 = 666 + 1336`
`20:00.56`	`kolla`	`:)`
`20:01.12`	`George-`	`what's so special about 1336? =P`
`20:01.32`	`badl_`	`dont know`
`20:01.36`	`badl_`	`whats special about 1337`
`20:01.51`	`George-`	`leet`
`20:01.59`	`badl_`	`bah`
`20:03.37`	`George-`	`bah, konq crashed`
`20:03.50`	`warmi`	`NeoWork: I have never seen a PDA bundled with 3rd party games`
`20:03.57`	`warmi`	`but perhaps I wasn't looking hard enough`
`20:04.09`	`warmi`	`I know ipaqs are sold "bare" with just OS`
`20:04.16`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: well, Bust'em has a OEM deal with HP`
`20:04.34`	`Neo\|Work`	`18 month at least, bunbled with every new 3900 ipaq or something`
`20:04.34`	`warmi`	`perhaps only on some models`
`20:04.55`	`warmi`	`I bouth myself ipaq 3835 and it was "bare"`
`20:05.00`	`warmi`	`yeah, perhaps newer models`
`20:05.05`	`warmi`	`that would a sweet deal`
`20:05.09`	`treke`	`my 3700 and 3800 both came more or less bare`
`20:05.20`	`treke`	`the OS + some compaq apps`
`20:05.22`	`ljp_work`	`naked pdas... hmmm`
`20:05.28`	`Neo\|Work`	`I tried to get Sharp do do oem stuff but so far no luck`
`20:05.28`	`warmi`	`I am sure they are getting pennies for each device sold but still- nice income`
`20:05.31`	`Neo\|Work`	`especially not now with the whole enterprise crap`
`20:05.42`	`warmi`	`NeoTron: japan is your only chance`
`20:05.45`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: like 10-20 � or so`
`20:05.48`	`*** join/#zaurus [DrEvil] (~yeah@user-2ini8a3.dialup.mindspring.com)`
`20:05.50`	`warmi`	`after all games are pretty universal concept`
`20:06.16`	`Neo\|Work`	`but do the math. 15� * 50000 * 18 => $135k in 18 months`
`20:06.24`	`warmi`	`yeah, I know`
`20:06.29`	`Neo\|Work`	`granted, the 50000 sold is just a number taken from thin air`
`20:06.40`	`warmi`	`I am sure ipaqs sell well`
`20:06.44`	`Neo\|Work`	`but it's probably not unreasonable estimation for sales of ipaqs worldwide`
`20:07.16`	`warmi`	`I know they sold like 250 000 devices (various models) in the first quoter of this year`
`20:07.30`	`warmi`	`I actually read figures somewhere and was comparing that to 40 units sold by Sharp`
`20:07.39`	`warmi`	`40 K units`
`20:07.49`	`ljp_work`	`40 sounds more like it`
`20:07.55`	`warmi`	`hehehe`
`20:08.18`	`warmi`	`maybe it was first two quoters - I don't remember`
`20:08.27`	`Neo\|Work`	`now imagine making almost $10k / month on your game. :))`
`20:08.40`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work: yeah. but that is an exception`
`20:08.50`	`warmi`	`you can't base your business model around OEM deals`
`20:09.04`	`warmi`	`if you can't survive on retail sales only then it is not very viable market`
`20:09.37`	`warmi`	`of course, sometimes I think if tkc was to clean up their code a bit ( especially that theme)`
`20:09.56`	`warmi`	`it would be worthwile for Sharp to OEM some of their apps`
`20:11.06`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: naturally`
`20:11.09`	`Neo\|Work`	`just saying... :)`
`20:11.26`	`Neo\|Work`	`I don't plan to live on games any time soon`
`20:11.29`	`warmi`	`yeah, but that would definately be nice`
`20:11.33`	`Neo\|Work`	`more like a hobby/extra income`
`20:11.40`	`Neo\|Work`	`now, if I COULD live on it, heck yes I would`
`20:11.46`	`warmi`	`10 K per month - I am sure that would make your wife happy`
`20:12.31`	`Neo\|Work`	`heh, it would make ME happy. :)`
`20:12.37`	`warmi`	`heh`
`20:12.50`	`warmi`	`well, you know -- women come first etc ...`
`20:13.06`	`Neo\|Work`	`well, no. Kids do. :)`
`20:13.23`	`warmi`	`yeah, that is true but I lump them in the same category anyway`
`20:14.15`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work: can an average Swede understand German ? perhaps not completely -but can they make a sense out of German language without learning it ?`
`20:14.18`	`*** join/#zaurus TheMasterMind1 (~themaster@boron.tjhsst.edu)`
`20:14.23`	`badl_`	`so do you consider your Z to be a kid, or member of the family? ;)`
`20:14.26`	`Neo\|Work`	`quite a few do`
`20:14.32`	`Neo\|Work`	`it's one of the two languages kids choose in school`
`20:14.35`	`Neo\|Work`	`the other one is french`
`20:14.45`	`warmi`	`no, but I mean without learning it`
`20:14.47`	`Neo\|Work`	`and of course, good understanding is probably relatively limited`
`20:14.53`	`Neo\|Work`	`no, not really`
`20:14.53`	`warmi`	`just naturally since these are related languages`
`20:15.00`	`Neo\|Work`	`a few words here and there perhaps`
`20:15.06`	`George-`	`I hate french =(`
`20:15.10`	`George-`	`It's too difficult, heh`
`20:15.19`	`warmi`	`George-: we talked about that one already :-)`
`20:15.23`	`Neo\|Work`	`I studied french for 5 yrs. don't remember squat now`
`20:15.31`	`George-`	`warmi: did we?`
`20:15.38`	`warmi`	`badl_: I do consider Z to be a member of my family :-)`
`20:15.46`	`George-`	`For some reason I'm really good at the classics (Ancient Greek and Latin), but shocking at modern languages`
`20:15.47`	`warmi`	`somewhere between a pet and my PC`
`20:16.12`	`warmi`	`George-: half of modern languages are derived from Latin`
`20:16.17`	`George-`	`warmi: I know`
`20:16.21`	`warmi`	`European ones of course`
`20:16.25`	`George-`	`warmi: But I seem to be much better at latin, heh`
`20:16.40`	`Neo\|Work`	`during a short time of insanity I also studied spanish`
`20:16.50`	`Neo\|Work`	`but that was just like half a year or perhaps even less`
`20:17.01`	`Neo\|Work`	`but it was very easy (basics) when knowing french relatively well`
`20:17.01`	`warmi`	`well, you think you are better but since this is a dead language - you don't really know if you are speaking it correctly :-)`
`20:17.12`	`ljp_work`	`me->speaks(Qt,C++,English)`
`20:17.23`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work: learning Spanish doesn't sound so insane here in US`
`20:17.39`	`George-`	`ljp_work: lol`
`20:17.45`	`ljp_work`	`win2k->makeBetter(run->blackbox())`
`20:17.47`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work: so you speak French ?`
`20:18.03`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: the insanity part was that it was above and beyond what I _HAD_ to study`
`20:18.12`	`Neo\|Work`	`i.e voluntarily taking on more school and homework`
`20:18.15`	`Neo\|Work`	`that's insane. :P`
`20:18.19`	`George-`	`ljp_work: shouldn't that be me->speaks("Qt","C++","English");?`
`20:18.20`	`warmi`	`heh`
`20:18.39`	`George-`	`ljp_work: or, me->speaks(tr("Qt"), tr("C++"), tr("English")); ;)`
`20:18.40`	`Neo\|Work`	`and no, I don't speak French. I did relatively well (5 yrs is quite a lot after all)`
`20:18.52`	`kergoth`	`George-: not if C is an int he's incrementing, and Qt and English are defines or an enum`
`20:18.54`	`Neo\|Work`	`but now, due to lack of usage or need, just about all my knowledge is gone`
`20:18.55`	`kergoth`	`George-: :)`
`20:19.03`	`warmi`	`yeah, similar with my German`
`20:19.03`	`George-`	`kergoth: bah`
`20:19.11`	`George-`	`kergoth: but he didn't declare an enum =P`
`20:19.27`	`ljp_work`	`george->no;`
`20:19.29`	`kergoth`	`George-: he didnt declare anything, including his type.`
`20:19.37`	`George-`	`kergoth: bah, shut up ;)`
`20:19.52`	`George-`	`ljp_work->ok`
`20:19.56`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work: you said that two most common choices for foreign language in your school was German and French .. how about English ?`
`20:19.56`	`George-`	`;`
`20:19.58`	`ljp_work`	`Qt == int`
`20:19.59`	`Neo\|Work`	`dude, this is so overly geeky I can't hardly stand it. :P`
`20:20.05`	`kergoth`	`haha`
`20:20.10`	`warmi`	`I thought everbody and his brother spoke English in Sweden`
`20:20.18`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: common optional or extra. Enblish is "basic"`
`20:20.23`	`warmi`	`ah ok`
`20:20.30`	`George-`	`Neo\|Work: what nationality are you?`
`20:20.30`	`Neo\|Work`	`you start that in like 3rd or 4th grade and everyone has to take it`
`20:20.31`	`ljp_work`	`me->wants(swedishWoman)`
`20:20.34`	`Neo\|Work`	`Swedish`
`20:20.45`	`George-`	`Neo\|Work: w00t? i thought you were american =P`
`20:20.53`	`kergoth`	`me->wants(aWoman \| money);`
`20:21.05`	`George-`	`ljp_work->wants(tr("death"));`
`20:21.05`	`Neo\|Work`	`and since 9 yrs of school is obligatory, people have 5-6 yrs of English at least`
`20:21.11`	`ljp_work`	`me->wants(woman && money);`
`20:21.12`	`Neo\|Work`	`not that it means everyone knows it well. :)`
`20:21.19`	`Neo\|Work`	`George-: I live in the US (Seattle to be exact)`
`20:21.19`	`kergoth`	`me->kick(george->ass());`
`20:21.23`	`Neo\|Work`	`since about 6.5 yrs`
`20:21.35`	`warmi`	`I think i read somewhere that Swedish women are blond because vikings in their voyages prefered to blond women .. I am not sure if this is true :-)`
`20:21.36`	`George-`	`Neo\|Work: ahhh`
`20:21.44`	`kergoth`	`ljp_work: &&?`
`20:21.52`	`kergoth`	`ljp_work: nah, gotta add them, or bitwise or them :)`
`20:21.56`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: dunno about that, although in reality there's a lot of non-blond people in Sweden`
`20:22.10`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work I am sure ..`
`20:22.15`	`Neo\|Work`	`blue eyes seems like something that is more common in Sweden than in the US`
`20:22.27`	`George-`	`me->tenders(myAss());`
`20:22.40`	`kergoth`	`tenders?`
`20:22.41`	`Neo\|Work`	`my kids both have blue eyes and blond (or blondish at least) hair despite their mom having brown hair and .. hmm. some other color eyes`
`20:22.46`	`George-`	`kergoth: erm.. cares`
`20:22.56`	`George-`	`kergoth: I dunno what I'm talking about :)`
`20:22.59`	`warmi`	`yeah .. every villan in hollywood movies that comes from norther europe ( generally East Germany) has blue eyes and is blond`
`20:23.01`	`kergoth`	`George-: i noticed`
`20:23.19`	`George-`	`me->smacks(kergoth->head());`
`20:23.22`	`Neo\|Work`	`yeah, and they are named Greta or something stupid like that`
`20:23.44`	`Neo\|Work`	`In Minority Report when he gets his eyes swapped, the nurse and doctor both speak actual Swedish`
`20:23.48`	`Neo\|Work`	`out-of-the-blue. very odd`
`20:23.54`	`warmi`	`by now George you should have referenced kergoth->head() into local kHead pointer - it would be faster :-)`
`20:24.09`	`Neo\|Work`	`and in Jurassic Park 2, the guy that's eaten early on by the small dinos swears in Swedish. :)`
`20:24.18`	`George-`	`warmi: grrr`
`20:24.30`	`Neo\|Work`	`gak!!! users->stopThisNonsense()`
`20:24.39`	`Neo\|Work`	`or killall(users(), 9);`
`20:24.41`	`Neo\|Work`	`dammit. :)`
`20:24.44`	`George-`	`Neo\|Work->no()`
`20:24.48`	`George-`	`Neo\|Work->no();`
`20:24.51`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work: strange - these workers looked like they were from SOuthern America`
`20:25.27`	`*** part/#zaurus warmi (~a3c01503@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`20:25.35`	`George-`	`MOV TRASH,NEO\|WORK`
`20:25.37`	`*** join/#zaurus warmi (~a3c01503@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`20:25.38`	`kergoth`	`BlootBot *ibot = new BlootBot; ibot->lart(george); delete ibot;`
`20:26.03`	`warmi`	`that's just mean kergoth :-)`
`20:26.06`	`George-`	`bah`
`20:26.07`	`*** kick/#zaurus [George-!~neotron@207.188.30.40] by Neo\|Work ([1] + 12827 terminated George-)`
`20:26.12`	`*** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@m277-mp1.cvx1-b.man.dial.ntli.net)`
`20:26.13`	`kergoth`	`haha`
`20:26.15`	`Neo\|Work`	`:)`
`20:26.15`	`George-`	`hrmm`
`20:26.22`	`George-`	`I've been kicked the MOST out of everybody here ;)`
`20:26.29`	`kergoth`	`George-: gee, i wonder why`
`20:26.30`	`kergoth`	`George-: :P`
`20:26.31`	`mark`	`George-: i wonder why`
`20:26.31`	`George-`	`I've been kicked from this chan approx 10 times ;)`
`20:26.35`	`Neo\|Work`	`liked the kick message? :)`
`20:26.40`	`warmi`	`mark: hahaha`
`20:26.43`	`Neo\|Work`	`at least you weren't klined like j0sh`
`20:26.48`	`George-`	`Neo\|Work: I don't understand it`
`20:26.50`	`Neo\|Work`	`that is my best archievement so far`
`20:26.55`	`kergoth`	`George-: he did a killall`
`20:26.58`	`George-`	`Neo\|Work: I'm not doing anything annoying like j0sh did ;)`
`20:27.14`	`Neo\|Work`	`George-: unix shell, sleep 100 & kill -9 %1 or so`
`20:27.18`	`George-`	`ahh`
`20:27.20`	`warmi`	`kline is just for a server or for entire network ?`
`20:27.26`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: entire network`
`20:27.28`	`George-`	`warmi: entire network iirc`
`20:27.29`	`Neo\|Work`	`siteban`
`20:27.44`	`warmi`	`well, that sucks then`
`20:27.51`	`George-`	`j0sh was being an ass, heh`
`20:27.53`	`Neo\|Work`	`no, it was great`
`20:27.58`	`Neo\|Work`	`he was trying to sell stolen zaurii`
`20:28.00`	`warmi`	`NeoTron: yeah, I read about your ordeal with Novak`
`20:28.01`	`George-`	`yeh`
`20:28.06`	`Neo\|Work`	`for $50 each`
`20:28.08`	`warmi`	`or was it darienm`
`20:28.16`	`Neo\|Work`	`Mark Novak`
`20:28.18`	`Neo\|Work`	`he was just funny`
`20:28.21`	`George-`	`and he threatened to DDoS Freenode`
`20:28.23`	`Neo\|Work`	`not worth banishing forever. :)`
`20:28.32`	`George-`	`novak was a complete moron, and he was hilarious :)`
`20:28.47`	`Neo\|Work`	`George-: he claims he didn't threaten although it was very odd to bring his DDoS capabilities up if it wasn't a threat`
`20:28.58`	`George-`	`hehehe`
`20:28.59`	`warmi`	`well, DDOSing these days of unlimited Windows machines all exposed to the net and running with DSL connection is not that hard :-)`
`20:29.02`	`Neo\|Work`	`YOU HACKED MY MACHINE I CALLED FBI ON YUO!!!`
`20:29.11`	`George-`	`godspeed was DDoS'd by him`
`20:29.17`	`Neo\|Work`	`^---- mark novak in a nutshell`
`20:29.27`	`George-`	`and he told godspeed to come here or he'd be DDoS'd again`
`20:29.36`	`warmi`	`wasn't Novak the guy who was working with hardware ?`
`20:29.37`	`Neo\|Work`	`well, godspeed seemed like he was on more crack than anyone else`
`20:29.42`	`warmi`	`some sort of CPU design or something`
`20:29.42`	`George-`	`and he sent 5 Zaurii, 3 laptops and 10,000 USD in cash to godspeed by accident`
`20:29.49`	`Neo\|Work`	`right`
`20:30.00`	`Neo\|Work`	`that's what was said. does anyone actually believe that?`
`20:30.13`	`George-`	`nope ;)`
`20:30.18`	`warmi`	`well, he actually did send me a CD with entire ARM development kit`
`20:30.25`	`warmi`	`he was into this stuff obviouslty`
`20:30.25`	`Neo\|Work`	`of course, what lilo said was rather funny "I almost believed his story about the $10000 but I can't believe he has a girlfriend" :)`
`20:30.36`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`20:30.36`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: who did?`
`20:30.38`	`George-`	`warmi: who did?`
`20:30.42`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: who did?`
`20:30.42`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`20:30.43`	`Neo\|Work`	`:)`
`20:30.48`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work: Novak`
`20:30.50`	`Neo\|Work`	`ah`
`20:30.53`	`warmi`	`he send me snail-mail package`
`20:30.54`	`George-`	`why? =P`
`20:31.03`	`Neo\|Work`	`oh yes, he also had like 5-10 zaurii didn't he?`
`20:31.10`	`warmi`	`I don't know about zauris`
`20:31.11`	`George-`	`no, he had 200`
`20:31.19`	`Neo\|Work`	`mark novak? sure?`
`20:31.22`	`George-`	`yes`
`20:31.23`	`warmi`	`but he did send me and kergoth CD with ARM development kit ( compiler etc )`
`20:31.29`	`Neo\|Work`	`ah, some SUN deal wasn't it?`
`20:31.31`	`George-`	`Something like that anyway`
`20:31.31`	`Neo\|Work`	`or so he sai`
`20:31.32`	`Neo\|Work`	`d`
`20:31.35`	`George-`	`yes`
`20:31.38`	`treke`	`Neo\|Work: he claimed that`
`20:31.41`	`Neo\|Work`	`his dad worked at sun whatever`
`20:31.43`	`George-`	`He showed a pic of them all, remember`
`20:31.44`	`Neo\|Work`	`right`
`20:31.49`	`Neo\|Work`	`yes, I remember now`
`20:31.49`	`warmi`	`yeah, right - I saw that picture of a box filled with Zs`
`20:31.50`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`20:31.53`	`Neo\|Work`	`very questionable as well`
`20:31.56`	`George-`	`and he claimed he ran solaris`
`20:32.04`	`George-`	`and people hacked his box and saw he was running Win2k :)`
`20:32.10`	`Neo\|Work`	`"hacked"`
`20:32.14`	`warmi`	`I was gone for last 3-4 months`
`20:32.18`	`Neo\|Work`	`that's when he got pissy`
`20:32.21`	`George-`	`and he was like "my firewall is showing high priority alert!"`
`20:32.22`	`warmi`	`why did you guys ban him ?`
`20:32.25`	`warmi`	`this DDOS thing ?`
`20:32.30`	`George-`	`warmi: who?`
`20:32.30`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: MarkNovak isn't banned`
`20:32.34`	`warmi`	`Novak`
`20:32.36`	`Neo\|Work`	`he was banned from the channel temporarily`
`20:32.39`	`warmi`	`ah ok`
`20:32.40`	`Neo\|Work`	`but not klined or anythig`
`20:32.41`	`warmi`	`he just quit`
`20:32.42`	`Neo\|Work`	`j0sh was`
`20:32.48`	`George-`	`novak is still banned from here`
`20:32.52`	`warmi`	`and what was wrong with jOsh ?`
`20:32.58`	`Neo\|Work`	`hmm, perhaps it was a permanent ban`
`20:33.03`	`George-`	`warmi: it's a zero, not a capital O`
`20:33.05`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: he tried to sell "carded" zaurii`
`20:33.14`	`George-`	`Neo\|Work: he's the va.comcast.net ban :)`
`20:33.17`	`kergoth`	`warmi: it wasnt novak who sent the sdk, iirc, it was Speedy2, that hardware guy`
`20:33.17`	`warmi`	`George-: well, alright - > j0sh :-)`
`20:33.22`	`Neo\|Work`	`meaning bought illegally with someone elses credit cards`
`20:33.28`	`warmi`	`kergoth: uh fuck me then`
`20:33.30`	`Neo\|Work`	`or so he "suspected" - claiming he didn't know`
`20:33.34`	`warmi`	`I got completely confused then :-)`
`20:33.34`	`George-`	`warmi: hehe`
`20:33.42`	`warmi`	`yeah, it was speedy !!`
`20:33.42`	`warmi`	`you are right`
`20:33.52`	`Neo\|Work`	`George-: :P`
`20:33.55`	`George-`	`kergoth: fuck like the man said!`
`20:34.01`	`George-`	`:)`
`20:34.06`	`George-`	`kergoth->lart()`
`20:34.29`	`warmi`	`well, then I don't even know who that Novak guy was`
`20:34.36`	`George-`	`warmi: there are logs..`
`20:34.45`	`George-`	`Neo\|Work: don't you have logs of it on your server?`
`20:34.48`	`warmi`	`I got him confused with Speedy2 and speedy was the real thing - he knew his stuff`
`20:34.51`	`Neo\|Work`	`mark novak? yes`
`20:34.59`	`George-`	`Neo\|Work: where? ;)`
`20:35.09`	`*** join/#zaurus fishy (~fishy@adsl-81-167-136.asm.bellsouth.net)`
`20:35.10`	`Neo\|Work`	`http://david.hedbor.org/tmp/log.html`
`20:35.14`	`Neo\|Work`	`that is the #zaurus log`
`20:35.20`	`kergoth`	`warmi: go read the log, you wont confuse them again`
`20:35.21`	`kergoth`	`warmi: hehe`
`20:35.32`	`warmi`	`<MarkNovak> im not in high school`
`20:35.51`	`Neo\|Work`	`http://david.hedbor.org/tmp/novak.html`
`20:35.51`	`warmi`	`<MarkNovak> I graduated`
`20:35.51`	`Neo\|Work`	`that is from a private chat session with darienm`
`20:35.51`	`warmi`	`hahahaha`
`20:36.08`	`George-`	`hrmm, apparently lilo is claiming he's not named after the linux loader =P`
`20:36.21`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`20:36.24`	`warmi`	`quite funny`
`20:36.49`	`George-`	`warmi: iirc, I was in the middle hurling abuse at him :)`
`20:37.15`	`warmi`	`George-: I found it quite belivable ( the part with you hurling abuse at him)`
`20:37.16`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`20:37.33`	`warmi`	`found it -> find it`
`20:37.49`	`tux_mike`	`<NovakMark> <Neo\|Work> this channel is flooded with hackers`
`20:37.53`	`tux_mike`	`he couldn't be more true`
`20:38.00`	`warmi`	`was jOsh for real with selling these Zs ?`
`20:38.01`	`tux_mike`	`most of us here are hackers`
`20:38.11`	`tux_mike`	`just not stinkin crackers :)`
`20:38.13`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: well, yeah heh`
`20:38.15`	`George-`	`IT'S A ZERO!!!`
`20:38.35`	`George-`	`<MarkNovak> my machine is more secure that fort knox`
`20:38.41`	`George-`	`<George\|Coding> MarkNovak: is that why you have an open VNC session running on it?`
`20:38.45`	`tux_mike`	`buwahahahaha`
`20:38.46`	`George-`	`rofl`
`20:38.56`	`warmi`	`George-: well, switch to font that doesn't show difference between 0 and O - that will solve all your problems`
`20:39.46`	`George-`	`warmi: hehe`
`20:39.54`	`George-`	`tux_mike: that's my favourite quote :)`
`20:39.58`	`warmi`	`anyone here uses any sort of wireless modem with their zaurus ?`
`20:40.10`	`tux_mike`	`warmi: j0sh was suspected with dealing with stolen goods`
`20:40.26`	`tux_mike`	`warmi: not yet. i'd like to try the sprint 3g card`
`20:40.58`	`warmi`	`i read unfavourable things about Sharp beta wireless program`
`20:41.07`	`warmi`	`(it was like 5 months ago or so)`
`20:41.21`	`tux_mike`	`yahm, it was problematic`
`20:41.37`	`George-`	`warmi: darienm does, iirc`
`20:42.07`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: is that spint 3g thing based on that wirless internet access using antenna located on the sears tower ?`
`20:42.25`	`George-`	`<MarkNovak> I payed 799.99 for XP pro`
`20:42.28`	`tux_mike`	`no`
`20:42.28`	`George-`	`;-)`
`20:42.31`	`warmi`	`uh , I think I got that mixed`
`20:42.32`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: http://david.hedbor.org/tmp/log.txt`
`20:42.41`	`tux_mike`	`it's over the cellular network`
`20:42.51`	`tux_mike`	`that was sprint broadband`
`20:42.55`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: yeah .. makes sense :-)`
`20:43.09`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work: sounds like a good deal to me :-)`
`20:43.10`	`warmi`	`* j0sh selling Zaurus 5500's 50$/each unopened with 1 32MB CF Card! (15 in stock)`
`20:43.42`	`warmi`	`<j0sh> u want one free?`
`20:43.44`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`20:43.56`	`warmi`	`I think he was just taking out of his ass`
`20:44.58`	`warmi`	`<oGMo> i was hoping you were a legitimate vendor trying to unload some stock`
`20:45.01`	`warmi`	`hahaa - a good one`
`20:45.06`	`warmi`	`for $50 a piece ?`
`20:45.08`	`warmi`	`lol`
`20:45.34`	`*** join/#zaurus ljp_work (ljp_work@04-094.026.popsite.net)`
`20:45.55`	`warmi`	`yeah, I knew some dudes on the south side of Chicago who were dealing in hardware that "fell off the truck"`
`20:45.56`	`George-`	`ibot insult ljp_work`
`20:46.08`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: I believe he actually had them and was trying to sell them`
`20:46.25`	`Neo\|Work`	`in either case, there was enough proof of that to get him gone`
`20:46.36`	`warmi`	`nice , 15 Zs x$400 each - someone got fucked up pretty bad`
`20:46.56`	`George-`	`warmi: I hope he gets caught`
`20:46.58`	`Neo\|Work`	`he had 30`
`20:47.05`	`Neo\|Work`	`originally (well, so he claims)`
`20:47.05`	`George-`	`he had 50`
`20:47.15`	`tux_mike`	`why is there a helecopter floating above`
`20:47.15`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`20:47.28`	`kergoth`	`tux_mike: they're coming for you! run!`
`20:48.02`	`George-`	`tux_mike->tell(tr("Get the hell outa there!"));`
`20:48.30`	`kergoth`	`George-: you should be calling your tell method, not his`
`20:48.32`	`kergoth`	`;)`
`20:48.36`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: are you going to be partying tonight ?`
`20:48.42`	`George-`	`kergoth: abh`
`20:48.44`	`George-`	`bah`
`20:49.38`	`tux_mike`	`it's a channel 7 news copter`
`20:49.46`	`tux_mike`	`warmi: yah, something small`
`20:49.55`	`George-`	`I hereby present MarkNovak with the Loser of the Year Award 2002`
`20:50.05`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: well, perhaps there is a vicious killer running lose in your town :-)`
`20:50.12`	`tux_mike`	`woo!`
`20:50.24`	`George-`	`Runners up were: Chris Larson, j0sh and jonezr`
`20:50.26`	`ljp_work`	`ibot->lart(George-);`
`20:50.41`	`George-`	`me->ducks();`
`20:50.54`	`Neo\|Work`	`hmm`
`20:51.01`	`kergoth`	`me->trips(george);`
`20:51.12`	`Neo\|Work`	`tonight me and my wife are sitting home watching movies of the PS2. :P`
`20:51.16`	`George-`	`me->kills(kergoth);`
`20:51.32`	`Neo\|Work`	`thus no NY Eve party`
`20:51.35`	`ljp_work`	`if(ibot->notFind(George-)) find(George-)->lart();`
`20:51.43`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work: watching movies of the PS2 on the new years night - what could be more geeky than that :-)`
`20:51.58`	`Neo\|Work`	`heh`
`20:52.04`	`kergoth`	`ljp_work: make that a while, not a if, that find could fail`
`20:52.08`	`kergoth`	`ljp_work: :)`
`20:52.20`	`ljp_work`	`oh, ya I was thinking while`
`20:52.24`	`Neo\|Work`	`not much more geeky than watching movies off dvd`
`20:52.30`	`Neo\|Work`	`just cooler`
`20:52.33`	`Neo\|Work`	`(thanks broadq`
`20:52.34`	`Neo\|Work`	`)`
`20:52.34`	`warmi`	`yeah, my wife rented Minority Report`
`20:52.37`	`warmi`	`I am gonna watch this tonight`
`20:52.40`	`kergoth`	`warmi: good movie`
`20:52.44`	`warmi`	`I have never seen taht movie`
`20:52.50`	`Neo\|Work`	`http://www.broadq.com/`
`20:52.55`	`Neo\|Work`	`good movie indeed`
`20:53.25`	`kergoth`	`I havent partied in 2 weeks. I've been a recluse`
`20:53.26`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`20:53.58`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work: well, you have that big ass digital TV - I am sure that makes watching movies almost a theatrer-like experience`
`20:54.09`	`tux_mike`	`warmi: you at home or work?`
`20:54.15`	`warmi`	`work`
`20:54.17`	`warmi`	`everyone is gone`
`20:54.24`	`warmi`	`they all went home at 1 pm`
`20:54.31`	`warmi`	`I am waiting for my train at 4:30`
`20:54.39`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: indeed`
`20:54.43`	`Neo\|Work`	`especially with surround sound`
`20:54.47`	`tux_mike`	`you got any access to any info from chan 7? i wanna know why there's a helecopter above me :)`
`20:54.57`	`Neo\|Work`	`although the PS2 player doesn't support more than stereo yet`
`20:55.09`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: who owns chan 7 ?`
`20:55.47`	`tux_mike`	`ABC`
`20:55.49`	`warmi`	`actually I do have TV here next to my desk`
`20:55.51`	`warmi`	`let me see`
`20:56.14`	`tux_mike`	`if you had scanner freqs that could help too. i have a scanner`
`20:56.24`	`warmi`	`Inside Edition`
`20:56.31`	`warmi`	`nothing is going on tux`
`20:56.37`	`warmi`	`don't worry`
`20:56.37`	`tux_mike`	`something is`
`20:56.47`	`*** join/#zaurus m0j0 (~linuxed@12-229-21-34.client.attbi.com)`
`20:57.00`	`tux_mike`	`this chopper has been hovering for a while, i doubt they'd be putting it in one place for a long time :)`
`20:57.22`	`m0j0`	`i get this error trying to su to root "initgroups: Operation not permitted" any idea how to fix this?`
`20:57.25`	`warmi`	`tux_mike:I have a tv at work - don't you think that having TV and scanner would be like asking too much :-)`
`20:57.41`	`ljp_work`	`me->thinks(tux_mike.isInForBigTrouble);`
`20:57.45`	`tux_mike`	`bah`
`20:57.53`	`tux_mike`	`what's that out in the woods`
`20:58.20`	`warmi`	`hehehe`
`20:59.17`	`warmi`	`tux_mike: you don't need a scanner - you need a M-16`
`20:59.24`	`tux_mike`	`right`
`20:59.29`	`tux_mike`	`now where did i leave that`
`20:59.40`	`warmi`	`next to your bazooka`
`21:00.05`	`ljp_work`	`even a well aimed .22 can brong down a chopper`
`21:00.14`	`ljp_work`	`bring`
`21:00.44`	`warmi`	`ljp_work: how about you ? any plans for tonight ?`
`21:00.48`	`ljp_work`	`or a rock and sling shot`
`21:01.00`	`ljp_work`	`party plans? no`
`21:01.18`	`warmi`	`yeah, I forgot - this is geeks channel`
`21:01.19`	`warmi`	`heh`
`21:01.39`	`ljp_work`	`I plan to celebrate by recording music and/or writing code`
`21:02.23`	`warmi`	`ljp_work: yeah , creativity is always rewarding`
`21:02.33`	`warmi`	`even if it is just a satisfaction`
`21:02.38`	`ljp_work`	`yep, its what I live for`
`21:03.23`	`warmi`	`"Chicago no longer leads U.S. in murders" <- nice to know`
`21:04.25`	`warmi`	`hehe .. fox news headlines are sometimes a bit overdone "Welcome Home, Little Clone"`
`21:04.55`	`*** join/#zaurus ZzzGogo (~crazygo@pD955EF81.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`21:10.45`	`*** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@m46-mp1.cvx3-a.bre.dial.ntli.net)`
`21:11.06`	`warmi`	`George-: so what time it is now in UK ?`
`21:11.15`	`ljp_work`	`thing about running blackbox on windows is you really need cygwin, or else you end up thinking your in linux and do something like mv blah /`
`21:11.19`	`George-`	`Tue Dec 31 21:15:06 GMT 2002`
`21:11.30`	`warmi`	`George-: getting ready to celebrate ?`
`21:11.52`	`warmi`	`ljp_work: install MS Unix tools`
`21:11.55`	`*** join/#zaurus zeronett (~zeronett@c68.114.243.89.fdl.wi.charter.com)`
`21:11.57`	`warmi`	`I prefer that over CygWin`
`21:12.13`	`treke`	`is there a decent terminal emulator for windows yet?`
`21:12.37`	`warmi`	`well, you have to define decent :-)`
`21:12.59`	`warmi`	`if you say run "sh" in the standard windows terminal - it is decent`
`21:13.29`	`George-`	`warmi: er.. no =P`
`21:13.49`	`warmi`	`well, actually it is not all that decent :-)`
`21:14.13`	`George-`	`the last time I celebrated a new year was the rollover from 1999 -> 2000, when I watched my NT box crash before my very eyes ;)`
`21:14.21`	`treke`	`doesnt resize well. copy and paste is a pain in the ass`
`21:14.34`	`warmi`	`yeah, resizing is still aproblem`
`21:14.40`	`George-`	`and my linux box tick over like nothing had happened`
`21:15.00`	`warmi`	`George-: uhh`
`21:15.10`	`treke`	`although now that cygwin supports X, I can just compile aterm :p`
`21:15.18`	`George-`	`In other words, I can't be bothered to celebrate :)`
`21:15.32`	`Neo\|Work`	`treke: cygwin has a rxvt`
`21:15.48`	`warmi`	`but cygwin is a pain in the ass to set up`
`21:15.59`	`Neo\|Work`	`rxvt that, of course, runs in windows and not the cygwin xwindows`
`21:16.06`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: no, it's most definitely not`
`21:16.08`	`treke`	`Neo\|Work: oh, cool?`
`21:16.16`	`ljp_work`	`dl the cygwin setup app`
`21:16.17`	`warmi`	`anyway, Windows was designed fro cmd interface`
`21:16.24`	`Neo\|Work`	`package selector kind of sucks but once you selected pacakges there's really nothing else to setup`
`21:16.33`	`warmi`	`accept it and embrace MS way of doing things - click until you drop`
`21:16.57`	`Neo\|Work`	`treke: it works pretty much like rxvt. So yes, it's a good terminal`
`21:17.00`	`warmi`	`err .. Windows WASN"T designed for cmd interface - that is`
`21:17.00`	`ljp_work`	`much better than when I first installed cygwin... install by hand`
`21:17.09`	`treke`	`Neo\|Work: excellant`
`21:17.12`	`George-`	`warmi: haha`
`21:17.26`	`George-`	`warmi: I personally hate the Windows GUI`
`21:17.28`	`treke`	`MS can go embrace themselves`
`21:17.31`	`George-`	`it's too.. clickety`
`21:17.43`	`George-`	`all that double-click nonsense`
`21:17.58`	`warmi`	`well, there is a method behind this madness`
`21:17.58`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`21:18.08`	`warmi`	`single click is very much error prone`
`21:18.34`	`Wintre`	`Indeed`
`21:19.08`	`George-`	`is it?`
`21:19.16`	`George-`	`in what way>?`
`21:19.35`	`Neo\|Work`	`of course, half the people in the world couldn't double click right if their life depended on it`
`21:19.36`	`George-`	`treke: so you won't be celebrating the new year?`
`21:19.47`	`George-`	`Neo\|Work: bah, I do =P`
`21:21.05`	`warmi`	`George: I always disable KDE single-click policy`
`21:21.24`	`warmi`	`as I said, I find it error prone - I tend to start applications left and right`
`21:21.33`	`warmi`	`I am used to double click style`
`21:21.37`	`Wintre`	`george: Differentiating selection from execution is hard`
`21:21.58`	`Neo\|Work`	`in 1.5 hrs, it's 2003 in Sweden`
`21:22.20`	`George-`	`hah`
`21:22.28`	`George-`	`I like the KDE single click ;)`
`21:22.36`	`Wintre`	`I've never tried it, actually`
`21:22.51`	`Neo\|Work`	`left click start, right click select`
`21:22.55`	`Neo\|Work`	`that'd make sense`
`21:23.18`	`George-`	`I drag to select`
`21:23.32`	`Neo\|Work`	`Mind you I quick using any UI`
`21:23.37`	`Neo\|Work`	`I never used the desktop`
`21:23.43`	`Neo\|Work`	`or other features`
`21:23.51`	`warmi`	`NeoWork: so you are going back in time :-)`
`21:23.51`	`Neo\|Work`	`s/UI/desktop environment/ even`
`21:23.54`	`Neo\|Work`	`right`
`21:23.59`	`Wintre`	`I don't see that there is a whole lot of advantage in eliminating a click, frankly`
`21:23.59`	`warmi`	`soon you will roll back to teletype`
`21:24.03`	`warmi`	`:-)`
`21:24.09`	`Neo\|Work`	`now I have Sawfish and fbpanel (which is a simple taskbar with some launcher buttons basically)`
`21:24.14`	`Wintre`	`I suppose there is for people who can't double-click`
`21:24.26`	`Cloudchaser`	`happy new year everyone!`
`21:24.31`	`treke`	`Cloudchaser: happy new year`
`21:24.45`	`Wintre`	`Godt nytt aar ;)`
`21:24.45`	`warmi`	`Cloudchaser: hehe - happy new year`
`21:24.46`	`George-`	`HAPPY OLD YEAR PEOPLE!`
`21:24.49`	`Neo\|Work`	`Cloudchaser: happy new year and I wish you good luck with jobs and all taht. :)`
`21:25.04`	`George-`	`Why the hell don't we celebrate the year that's just PASSED for crying out loud? =P`
`21:25.14`	`Cloudchaser`	`thanks so much Neo!`
`21:25.21`	`Wintre`	`george: "Thank god 2002 is over!"`
`21:25.21`	`warmi`	`Wintre: you are about to enter new year`
`21:25.25`	`warmi`	`heh`
`21:25.28`	`treke`	`George-: because you arent celebrating the year, you celebrate the changing of the year`
`21:25.41`	`George-`	`treke: blah`
`21:26.07`	`warmi`	`it is still only 3:30 pm here in Chicago ... and I am still at work`
`21:26.09`	`Wintre`	`warmi: I'm visiting home actually`
`21:26.09`	`Neo\|Work`	`Wintre: Denmark?`
`21:26.09`	`warmi`	`uh`
`21:26.19`	`warmi`	`Wintre: ah , hehe`
`21:26.25`	`Wintre`	`Neo: No, Norwegian without compose`
`21:26.46`	`Neo\|Work`	`ah, i'm guessing gott nytt �r is quite similar in Danish too`
`21:27.03`	`warmi`	`well, Europeans are famous with their 6 weeks vacations and holidays so no wonder they let you go home for extended Xmass vacation`
`21:27.10`	`Wintre`	`I'd guess so as well`
`21:27.32`	`Wintre`	`warmi: Well, I had about three weeks I hadn't taken during 2002, so I used that and a bit of 2003`
`21:29.32`	`*** join/#zaurus Tenchi (~phil@pcp188766pcs.trentn01.nj.comcast.net)`
`21:29.56`	`Neo\|Work`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:30.02`	`warmi`	`Neo\|Work: you are emacs user right ?`
`21:30.25`	`Neo\|Work`	`yes`
`21:31.09`	`warmi`	`is it possible to configure it to behave like a standard Windows app - meaning menu shortcuts using ALT+C etc .. as opposed to tthat default CTRL madness ?`
`21:31.36`	`Neo\|Work`	`everything can be (re)configured`
`21:31.40`	`warmi`	`I read Emacs can do just about everything as far as IDE is concerned`
`21:31.50`	`Neo\|Work`	`well, sure, but it's more of an editor than IDE`
`21:31.58`	`Neo\|Work`	`but it can run compile, debugger etc in-emacs`
`21:32.03`	`warmi`	`but the problem is that for some reason it is using completely non-standard set of keys etc`
`21:32.11`	`Neo\|Work`	`no, it's using emacs keys`
`21:32.16`	`warmi`	`which makes switching between that and MS Visual C++ IDE problematic`
`21:32.26`	`Neo\|Work`	`which of course means it's not using Windows keys`
`21:32.29`	`m0j0`	`i get this error trying to su to root "initgroups: Operation not permitted" any idea how to fix this?`
`21:32.30`	`Neo\|Work`	`it's older than windows`
`21:32.31`	`warmi`	`hehe`
`21:32.33`	`warmi`	`I know`
`21:33.00`	`*** join/#zaurus hash (hash@c-24-118-83-193.mn.client2.attbi.com)`
`21:33.18`	`warmi`	`but, still considering that at some point you will be forced to use some other app than Emacs , it would be nice to be able to use standard Windows keys`
`21:33.35`	`hash`	`i have a SD card that is 64 (60.6) megs`
`21:33.38`	`warmi`	`or perhaps not .. perhaps there is no reason to use other apps :-)`
`21:33.48`	`hash`	`df -h shows i have 8.9M left`
`21:33.59`	`hash`	`du -sh /mnt/card`
`21:34.01`	`hash`	`shows`
`21:34.01`	`*** join/#zaurus Loaf (~loaf@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576940.sympatico.ca)`
`21:34.15`	`Neo\|Work`	`warmi: or not. I rather reconfigure the apps I have to use in Windows. :p`
`21:34.21`	`hash`	`12.7M used`
`21:34.24`	`Neo\|Work`	`i.e I had once made Visual C++ almost Emacs like`
`21:34.27`	`Loaf`	`was wondering if someone could point me at a link as how to setup the WFC12 in my SL-5500 (2.38 ROM)`
`21:34.37`	`hash`	`where did the other space go?`
`21:34.56`	`Neo\|Work`	`hash: is it partitioned correctly?`
`21:35.15`	`hash`	`Neo\|Work: i have no idea... it was formated with my camera, i think`
`21:35.22`	`hash`	`dont remember if i formated it myself or not`
`21:35.24`	`Neo\|Work`	`got fdisk?`
`21:35.27`	`warmi`	`hash: can you check the disk space on the Windows machine ?`
`21:35.31`	`hash`	`it's on the Z`
`21:35.36`	`hash`	`i dont have a sd reader`
`21:35.40`	`warmi`	`ah ok`
`21:36.11`	`hash`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:36.15`	`hash`	`but the second one wont mount`
`21:36.36`	`hash`	`df shows the space used, but du doesnt`
`21:36.37`	`warmi`	`Loaf: check this URL :http://www.zauruszone.farplanet.net/howtos/`
`21:37.05`	`hash`	`i cant find any hidden files or anything`
`21:37.14`	`Neo\|Work`	`hash:`
`21:37.19`	`hash`	`i dont want to lose the pictures i dont see on the card`
`21:37.19`	`George-`	`Fuck me lightly with a chainsaw`
`21:37.21`	`Neo\|Work`	`hash: what does df say? complete output`
`21:37.27`	`Neo\|Work`	`it shows size, used, avail and use%`
`21:37.35`	`hash`	`yup`
`21:37.44`	`Neo\|Work`	`what does it say on those?`
`21:38.19`	`Loaf`	`warmi: I just tried that. How do I know it installed correctly?`
`21:38.22`	`hash`	`. /dev/mmcda1 60.6M 51.7M 8.9M 85% /mnt/card`
`21:38.44`	`hash`	`ah, have to go`
`21:38.47`	`Neo\|Work`	`ok`
`21:38.48`	`hash`	`i'll be back later tonight`
`21:38.53`	`Neo\|Work`	`so it is used somewhere`
`21:38.56`	`hash`	`yeah`
`21:38.57`	`Loaf`	`warmi: I basically want to get kismet and the wfc12 to work.`
`21:39.41`	`warmi`	`Loaf: sorry, I can't help you anymore than that - I don't own wireless card and I just pointed generic howto site to you :-)`
`21:39.51`	`Loaf`	`oh ok. thanks :)`
`21:40.28`	`warmi`	`ok .. happy New Year folks - time to go`
`21:40.30`	`warmi`	`bye`
`21:40.36`	`*** part/#zaurus warmi (~a3c01503@dsl092-131-081.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`21:41.39`	`*** join/#zaurus MEGA\|Home (~megastep@home.megastep.org)`
`21:41.53`	`*** join/#zaurus oGMo (~rpav@208.187.9.63)`
`21:43.07`	`angry`	`mmmm... i like WOPN`
`21:48.57`	`George-`	`<mark\|downstairs> i'm drunk`
`21:48.57`	`George-`	`:)`
`22:00.29`	`*** join/#zaurus Deathwind (~deathwind@modem-pool-729.mis.net)`
`22:09.20`	`*** join/#zaurus ZzzGogo (~crazygo@pD9E1FC7A.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`22:10.20`	`*** join/#zaurus ^X^ (x@12-232-116-199.client.attbi.com)`
`22:17.36`	`*** join/#zaurus alexw (~alex@modem-100.leopard.dialup.pol.co.uk)`
`22:27.41`	`*** join/#zaurus Tenchi (~phil@pcp188766pcs.trentn01.nj.comcast.net)`
`22:28.51`	`alexw`	`that's gonna be one hell of a hairball`
`22:29.14`	`Neo\|Work`	`are'`
`22:29.23`	`Neo\|Work`	`aren't tumbleweeds very large?`
`22:32.03`	`ljp`	`not this one`
`22:48.13`	`*** join/#zaurus alexw_ (~alex@modem-1122.lynx.dialup.pol.co.uk)`
`22:53.18`	`*** join/#zaurus prpplague (~JoeBob1@12.148.134.9)`
`22:59.00`	`*** join/#zaurus George- (~Test@m314-mp1.cvx1-b.man.dial.ntli.net)`
`23:00.37`	`*** join/#zaurus treke\|wherever (~ggilbert@ip60-25.outside.westmont.edu)`
`23:08.02`	`George-`	`yo treke`
`23:08.06`	`George-`	`EVERYBODY, MARK IS DRUNK! :)`
`23:08.13`	`mark`	`no im not`
`23:08.48`	`George-`	`yeh you are ;)`
`23:09.03`	`mark`	`not`
`23:09.17`	`George-`	`are`
`23:11.42`	`treke\|wherever`	`yet`
`23:12.49`	`George-`	`treke\|wherever: he's definitely drunk`
`23:13.06`	`treke\|wherever`	`its november 1st`
`23:13.15`	`treke\|wherever`	`er january 1st`
`23:15.10`	`George-`	`treke\|wherever: are you drunktoo?`
`23:15.41`	`treke\|wherever`	`no I'm not`
`23:15.50`	`George-`	`heh`
`23:19.03`	`*** join/#zaurus TheMasterMind1 (foobar@h-69-3-87-66.MCLNVA23.covad.net)`
`23:19.14`	`treke\|wherever`	`oh sweeet! found my copy of full throttle`
`23:20.51`	`*** join/#zaurus storpik (~storpik@dsl081-038-069.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`23:28.55`	`George-`	`ibot feeds`
`23:29.00`		`it has been said that feeds is listed at http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/IpkgFeeds or at http://zfi.zaurii.com/`
`23:29.09`	`George-`	`ibot openzaurus`
`23:29.11`		`methinks openzaurus is an alternative linux distribution for the Sharp SL-5[50]00[dg]{0,1} PDA. See http://www.openzaurus.org/. Also ask me about oz faq, oz feed, oz bk, oz release, or oz prerelease. And dont forget to /join #openzaurus.`
`23:29.19`	`George-`	`TheMasterMind1: ping`
`23:29.26`	`TheMasterMind1`	`yo?`
`23:29.40`	`George-`	`TheMasterMind1: where's the OZ feeds located?`
`23:29.51`	`TheMasterMind1`	`ibot oz feed`
`23:29.52`		`it has been said that oz feed is http://www.openzaurus.org/official/unstable/feed/`
`23:29.58`	`George-`	`TheMasterMind1: thanks`
`23:34.48`	`*** join/#zaurus victorvdl (~victor@ip87.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com)`
`23:45.44`	`*** part/#zaurus victorvdl (~victor@ip87.126-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com)`
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`23:56.06`	`*** join/#zaurus specht (~khk@roc-24-95-202-198.rochester.rr.com)`

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