| 00:30:18 | jbardin | m |
| 00:30:22 | Neo|Work | is away: home |
| 00:31:40 | deevee | god dam sharp needs to fix the 2 reboots in a row bug |
| 00:31:44 | deevee | my Z just hard reset cus of it |
| 00:37:00 | deevee | this is unaccpetable |
| 00:39:50 | paq | hello |
| 00:40:42 | ||ugh | Whats the "2 reboots in a row bug"? Is there a PR on it somewhere? |
| 00:44:42 | oGMo | a PR? |
| 00:45:48 | deevee | well |
| 00:45:56 | deevee | if you reboot twice in a row without suspending |
| 00:46:00 | deevee | its freezes |
| 00:46:03 | deevee | and you gota hard reset |
| 00:46:05 | deevee | its gay |
| 00:46:27 | oGMo | that's... odd |
| 00:46:34 | deevee | yea |
| 00:46:37 | deevee | it sucks |
| 01:03:15 | HMS | I've never heard of that deevee |
| 01:06:30 | ||ugh | oGMo, a PR is a problem report. Somewhere what the problem is described and if there is a fix for it it's listed there as well. |
| 01:06:56 | oGMo | ||ugh: ah |
| 01:07:16 | ||ugh | Thanks deevee, I did not know that. I have had to hard reset so many times I am down to just doing development on the Z for now. |
| 01:08:00 | ||ugh | Strike the word development, replace it with debugging. It's not legeal for me to do development here in the USSA... |
| 01:08:14 | deevee | heh |
| 01:09:58 | ||ugh | Fickle one that. |
| 01:24:45 | dmkmd | Who can tell me what OBEC sending in IR means. It won't talk to my printer's IR, is there a fix? |
| 01:28:12 | dmkmd | Who can tell me what OBEC sending in IR means. It won't talk to my printer's IR, is there a fix? |
| 01:28:26 | kergoth` | dmkmd: we heard you the first time |
| 01:29:13 | dmkmd | sorry |
| 01:30:40 | treke|home | hmm. the stock Z apps have print options? |
| 01:31:34 | dmkmd | if you press and hold on a document name, you go to a screen (on OZ) which has a BEAM radio button, but it doesnt seem to beam to printer |
| 01:32:10 | dmkmd | i was wondering if OBEC was a specific Z to Z format |
| 01:32:18 | treke|home | OBEX? |
| 01:32:26 | treke|home | thats a rather standard format |
| 01:32:35 | dmkmd | wait while i get the bifocals on again |
| 01:33:11 | treke|home | I imagine you'd have to do something fancier than just beam a file to a printer |
| 01:34:11 | Sniper1 | ugh |
| 01:34:41 | dmkmd | you are correct, sorry, OBEX sending is what it says, still doesnt tickle my printer's IR |
| 01:35:13 | treke|home | dmkmd: Printer probably doesnt use obex |
| 01:35:19 | dmkmd | I know my Handspring can print to the printer's IR thru a driver "printboy" |
| 01:35:40 | dmkmd | any suggestion how to IR in a printer friendly formal? |
| 01:35:52 | Sniper1 | does IR printing work? |
| 01:35:55 | Sniper1 | ive never tried |
| 01:36:33 | | warmi was last seen on #zaurus 4 days, 21 hours, 24 minutes and 22 seconds ago, saying: cdm: yeah .. with them being first offering the keyboard .. uh , they would make a killing in CE market [Thu Oct 3 05:12:11 2002] |
| 01:36:33 | mike_ | ibot seen warmi |
| 01:37:01 | treke|home | dmkmd: printboy is a set of printer drivers |
| 01:37:24 | dmkmd | perhaps we need to stimulate those writers for a Z or OZ set |
| 01:43:39 | | BZFlag was last seen on #tuxscreen 5 hours, 32 minutes and 4 seconds ago, saying: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/10/07/1233208&mode=flat&tid=100 <- /me gets a laugh. [Mon Oct 7 21:11:35 2002] |
| 01:43:39 | ljp | ibot seen BZFlag |
| 01:51:24 | Sniper1 | gnite |
| 01:51:34 | hobbs | kergoth`: is it true that you're hiding the patch to make usbdnet usable under your mattress? |
| 01:51:35 | | zfi is the zaurus feed index, similar to zsi, but for feeds. It is available at http://zfi.zaurii.com/. It is updated hourly and lists the latest packages from all feeds in its system. |
| 01:51:35 | kergoth` | ibot zfi |
| 01:51:48 | kergoth` | hobbs: haha, i have no idea where it is.. let me dig.. |
| 01:51:53 | kergoth` | who's the guy that runs zfi again? |
| 01:52:12 | Shwag | are there any pictures of the new models ? |
| 01:52:21 | | well, new zaurus is http://world.altavista.com/urltrurl?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobilenews.ne.jp%2Fnews%2F2002%2F10%2F01%2Fceatec%2F01sharp.html&lp=ja_en&tt=url or http://www.sharp.co.jp/corporate/event/ceatec2002/images/photo_big_07.jpg or FASTER page at http://zaurus.kruss.com/files/zaurus2003/ or http://mobile1.mobilenews.ne.jp/news/2002/10/01/ceatec/01.jpg |
| 01:52:21 | kergoth` | ibot new zaurus |
| 01:52:23 | | Ask me about SL-5600 instead |
| 01:52:23 | kergoth` | ibot 5600 |
| 01:52:34 | kergoth` | Shwag: the only pictures around are of the new japanese only unit |
| 01:52:43 | Shwag | donde esta ? |
| 01:52:55 | kergoth` | ? |
| 01:52:58 | | kergoth`: excuse me? |
| 01:52:58 | kergoth` | ibot new zauurs |
| 01:52:59 | mrwoody | my z is having serious problems: trying to install the 1.39 rom image, but after the flash i get couldn't find ext2 superblock... could this be a zero-olenght partition...etc... give root password for maintanance... |
| 01:53:00 | | new zaurus is http://world.altavista.com/urltrurl?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobilenews.ne.jp%2Fnews%2F2002%2F10%2F01%2Fceatec%2F01sharp.html&lp=ja_en&tt=url or http://www.sharp.co.jp/corporate/event/ceatec2002/images/photo_big_07.jpg or FASTER page at http://zaurus.kruss.com/files/zaurus2003/ or http://mobile1.mobilenews.ne.jp/news/2002/10/01/ceatec/01.jpg |
| 01:53:00 | kergoth` | ibot new zaurus |
| 01:53:02 | mrwoody | then nothing else |
| 01:53:02 | kergoth` | ^^-right there |
| 01:53:05 | kergoth` | heh |
| 01:53:44 | hobbs | nifty, but not really what I'd be after. I like my handhelds handheld. |
| 01:54:15 | mrwoody | kergoth`: any idea? |
| 01:54:33 | kergoth` | mrwoody: hm, nothing immediately comes to mind, the cant find ext2 sounds like its failing on mtdram, which probably means you forgot to full reset after flashing |
| 01:54:54 | hobbs | mrwoody: yeah, sounds like it's not in full-reset-mode, when it should be. |
| 01:55:11 | mrwoody | kergoth`: full reseting means C+D+flash? |
| 01:55:36 | kergoth` | mrwoody: no, thats flashing |
| 01:55:50 | kergoth` | mrwoody: full reset is tapping the full reset button under the battery once after doing hte flash procedure |
| 01:55:56 | hobbs | wow. the screen on that thing is _pretty_. |
| 02:04:48 | kergoth` | hey mdz |
| 02:05:12 | mdz | kergoth`: evening |
| 02:07:16 | hobbs | kergoth`: could I leave you my email address, and if you happen to find it, you could mail it? |
| 02:07:39 | hobbs | It's a short short short patch, last time I just applied it by hand, but I can't remember it well enough to just do it again. :) |
| 02:07:53 | kergoth` | yeah, its basic |
| 02:07:56 | kergoth` | hobbs: drop me an email |
| 02:07:58 | | PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN! |
| 02:07:58 | kergoth` | ibot kergoth |
| 02:08:00 | | kergoth is at mailto:kergoth@digitalnemesis.net |
| 02:08:00 | kergoth` | ibot kergoth |
| 02:08:03 | kergoth` | there we go |
| 02:08:05 | kergoth` | :) |
| 02:08:13 | hobbs | that sounds familiar... |
| 02:08:43 | hobbs | or not. maybe I was just thinking of digitalblasphemy or something. :) |
| 02:08:54 | kergoth` | mmm digitalblasphemy |
| 02:11:00 | hobbs | ooh. I think maybe I remember what it was. |
| 02:11:35 | kergoth` | whats that |
| 02:11:39 | hobbs | usbdnet.c:defer_skb()... sometime before the __skb_unlink(skb, list), warn and return if list == NULL |
| 02:12:27 | kergoth` | hobbs: rings a bell |
| 02:12:30 | hobbs | hrm... and outside of the spinlock would be a good idea. :) |
| 02:12:33 | kergoth` | hobbs: it was just the addition of the sanity check |
| 02:12:36 | kergoth` | yep |
| 02:12:50 | kergoth` | hey! |
| 02:12:52 | kergoth` | foudn it |
| 02:13:05 | hobbs | did I forget anything else? |
| 02:13:17 | hobbs | I just added if(!list) return; above the spin_lock_foo() |
| 02:14:08 | kergoth` | // unlink from current queue |
| 02:14:11 | kergoth` | - spin_lock_irqsave(&list->lock, flags); |
| 02:14:13 | kergoth` | - __skb_unlink(skb, list); |
| 02:14:15 | kergoth` | - spin_unlock(&list->lock); |
| 02:14:17 | kergoth` | + if (!list) { |
| 02:14:19 | kergoth` | + printk(KERN_DEBUG"defer_skb: list is NULL!\n"); |
| 02:14:21 | kergoth` | + return; |
| 02:14:23 | kergoth` | + } else { |
| 02:14:25 | kergoth` | + spin_lock_irqsave(&list->lock, flags); |
| 02:14:27 | kergoth` | + __skb_unlink(skb, list); |
| 02:14:29 | kergoth` | + spin_unlock(&list->lock); |
| 02:14:30 | hobbs | okay... close enough. |
| 02:14:31 | kergoth` | + } |
| 02:14:33 | kergoth` | yep |
| 02:14:35 | kergoth` | thats all there was to it |
| 02:14:37 | kergoth` | yep |
| 02:14:51 | hobbs | alright. thanks. :) |
| 02:15:00 | hobbs | it always chose the _worst_ times to do that. |
| 02:15:11 | [DrEvil] | kergoth`: does the new buildroot update opie automatically? |
| 02:15:46 | kergoth` | [DrEvil]: no, but you can. (cd build/opie; cvs up -PdA && date +%Y%m%d > stamp-version; cd ../..; rm stamps/.opie.binary;) && make |
| 02:15:54 | kergoth` | [DrEvil]: opie fails to compile from cvs right now |
| 02:16:01 | [DrEvil] | ahh |
| 02:16:01 | [DrEvil] | ok |
| 02:16:03 | kergoth` | [DrEvil]: i'm reverting us to a previous version that actually compiles in a few |
| 02:16:03 | [DrEvil] | figures |
| 02:16:10 | kergoth` | [DrEvil]: i'm testing hte compile now |
| 02:18:26 | [DrEvil] | k |
| 02:18:57 | hobbs | that's weird. |
| 02:19:32 | hobbs | between XFree 4.1.0, the alt keys went from being Alt_[LR] to Meta, and the Win keys (on this sort of keyboard) went from being Meta to Super. |
| 02:20:26 | hobbs | Which caused some problems since I bind Meta_L to Multi_Key in ~/.xmodmap :) |
| 02:24:35 | hobbs | night everyone. |
| 02:24:40 | hobbs | must... sleeep... |
| 02:50:53 | deevee | hmm i wonder if my red box still works these days |
| 03:03:46 | | well, picogui is an small and scalable embedded GUI. More info in the #picogui channel or at http://picogui.org. Read the FAQ or not pico gui or pico-gui or even cooler than sliced cheese |
| 03:03:46 | HMS | ibot picogui |
| 03:27:13 | chouimatZzzzz | night |
| 03:54:34 | Neo|Laptop | fusion94: evening |
| 04:00:18 | BigBoss | hey neo |
| 04:00:34 | kergoth` | hey guys |
| 04:00:36 | kergoth` | how goes it |
| 04:01:57 | chouimatZzzzz | grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr |
| 04:02:17 | BigBoss | fact finding |
| 04:02:34 | BigBoss | we've got some really nifty stuff in the works, some in test right now |
| 04:05:38 | jbardin | like? |
| 04:10:56 | BigBoss | one or two will really surprise you I think, some others have been discussed before, but I've gotten some test code today and was playing with it and it's just too cool |
| 04:11:18 | BigBoss | it's all network apps, so if you aren't using the Z with a network, it won't matter. |
| 04:11:20 | jbardin | is it an nes emulator ? |
| 04:11:23 | jbardin | damn |
| 04:11:43 | jbardin | i think my next project will be getting fceultra running on the z |
| 04:11:59 | jbardin | i got it to compile to arm.. but the sdl port had some problems initiallizing something or another |
| 04:12:18 | jbardin | someathing about QApplication calling QDrawing before loading or osmething |
| 04:12:50 | BigBoss | there is a new sdl out the other day, not sure if that makes a difference |
| 04:12:54 | BigBoss | what is fceultra? |
| 04:13:03 | jbardin | suppose to be a portable nes emulator |
| 04:13:21 | jbardin | well it is a portable nes umatlor only it uses svgalib |
| 04:13:31 | jbardin | and the sdl port is like a hack on top of that or something |
| 04:41:04 | scanline | is back (gone 08:45:52) |
| 04:49:54 | brontos | How do I add tabs to the display and move icons around? |
| 04:52:11 | brontos | no help? |
| 04:54:16 | kergoth` | brontos: chances are everybody is asleep. ask the question and wait until somebody wakes up or comes to their computer |
| 06:29:00 | smee|h | shit I burnt my waffles |
| 06:34:39 | kolla | /usr/bin/webview http://MyZaurus.com/ |
| 06:34:45 | kolla | funny |
| 07:04:43 | Piete | yo Hauke |
| 07:04:59 | Datake | morning |
| 07:05:14 | Hauke | G'morning ya'll |
| 07:08:23 | Hauke | Jeezus... Didn't realize it's so late... or early... This little bugger is addictive. :) |
| 07:08:40 | Piete | little bugger = zaurus? |
| 07:09:10 | Hauke | oh yeah |
| 07:38:14 | Piete | yo rikkus |
| 07:39:13 | Piete | yo tboc |
| 07:39:17 | tboc | hi |
| 07:39:20 | rikkus | Piete: hi |
| 07:42:06 | brainless | i am having a qpe-keypebble_1.5.0-8bp_arm.ipk which i shall like to load on my zaurus |
| 07:42:08 | brainless | how do i do that? |
| 07:50:56 | Hauke | http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/zaurus-faq/sections/software.php3 |
| 07:50:59 | Hauke | question 3) |
| 07:51:54 | Piete | wishes there was more going on in this channel |
| 07:52:12 | scanline | makes noise |
| 07:52:29 | smee | jumps up and down |
| 07:52:32 | Piete | bangs pots and pans |
| 07:52:38 | scanline | works on a patch to SDL |
| 07:52:46 | Piete | scanline: cool! |
| 07:52:56 | scanline | s/a/another/ :) |
| 07:53:48 | scanline | http://handhelds.org/scap/land.32472.png <-- SDL is good for fun stuff |
| 07:53:57 | kolla | andone happen to have a clue about xchat here? :) |
| 07:54:02 | Piete | goes there |
| 07:54:14 | scanline | kolla: for the zaurus, or in general? |
| 07:54:19 | Piete | scanline: oohh ohhh ohhh ohhh ohh! |
| 07:54:20 | kolla | in general |
| 07:54:30 | Piete | scanline: that looks GREAT :) |
| 07:54:33 | kolla | like.. how do I access the url-list from the command line |
| 07:54:35 | Hauke | brainless: Then go to: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/ for client software. |
| 07:54:36 | scanline | Piete: calm down :) |
| 07:54:41 | Piete | can't |
| 07:54:46 | smee | :) |
| 07:54:54 | kolla | or how do I add "user commands" (well, aliases) from the prompt |
| 07:54:56 | scanline | http://handhelds.org/scap/land.15633.png |
| 07:55:04 | kolla | or list avaible user commands from the prompt |
| 07:55:07 | kolla | etc etc |
| 07:55:40 | kolla | I just want my amirc aliases to work in xchat as well |
| 07:55:41 | Piete | <homer> mmmmmmmmm, Zeelldaa </homer> |
| 07:56:32 | scanline | makes Piete's head explode |
| 07:56:34 | scanline | http://handhelds.org/scap/toland.cgi?fn=port.10737.png |
| 07:56:35 | kolla | "/urls" to list out last 10 urls, "/url" to toss last url up in default browser, "/url 2" to toss second last browser up in default browser... and so on |
| 07:56:46 | kolla | second last url |
| 07:57:13 | Piete | <excited monkey>ohhh ohhh ohhh</excited> |
| 07:57:43 | scanline | hehe |
| 07:57:54 | Piete | scanline: does that work on the Z? |
| 07:57:55 | HighNo | i have problems using the new oz(2.9.5.5) and liquid-style. in short words - it just doesnt work, is that just me being a noob to oz or is that a general problem? |
| 07:58:02 | scanline | Piete: that's a screenshot taken from the Z |
| 07:58:15 | Piete | scanline: wtf? picogui on the Z? cooool |
| 08:00:05 | scanline | of course |
| 08:00:36 | Piete | scanline: do you still run qtopia in the background? |
| 08:00:43 | scanline | no |
| 08:00:46 | Piete | does not know much (yet) |
| 08:01:00 | | oz picogui is http://openzaurus.sourceforge.net/unofficial/experimental/picogui/ - install them, kill opie, and run "pgserver" or see "picogui faq" |
| 08:01:00 | scanline | ibot: oz picogui |
| 08:01:04 | | picogui faq is at http://picogui.org/wiki/view/Main/FAQ |
| 08:01:04 | scanline | ibot: picogui faq |
| 08:01:14 | Piete | scanline: cooool |
| 08:01:17 | Piete | thanks |
| 08:01:25 | scanline | it's still really experimental, don't expect things to work correctly |
| 08:02:02 | | okay, scanline. |
| 08:02:02 | scanline | ibot: oz picogui is also really experimental still (see "picogui bugs") |
| 08:02:21 | | OK, scanline. |
| 08:02:21 | scanline | ibot: picogui bugs are tracked at http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=104764&group_id=4764&func=browse |
| 08:05:38 | | OK, scanline. |
| 08:05:38 | scanline | ibot: picogui protocol is at http://picogui.org/doc/pgui-protocol/pgui-protocol.html |
| 08:20:39 | HighNo | sorry, but again - i have problems using the new oz(2.9.5.5) and liquid-style. in short words - it just doesnt work, is that just me being a noob to oz or is that a general problem? |
| 08:21:43 | HighNo | there are also a couple of other problems, namely certain packets that the package manager marks as new, but if I install them, the system goes nirvana... |
| 08:21:48 | Piete | HighNo: I don't know, but maybe the people on zauruszone can help you :) |
| 08:22:14 | smee | HighNo: liquid should work |
| 08:23:31 | HighNo | hm, "should"? what packets are needed for liquid? there is a "liquid" and a "opie-liquid-deco" and maybe others |
| 08:23:42 | cod | hi > all |
| 08:24:05 | HighNo | also - i guess it's just because it's beta, but opie-login gives me a blank screen and nothing else |
| 08:24:30 | smee | HighNo: opie-liquid is all you need iirc |
| 08:25:20 | | rumour has it feed is a package repository. See http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/IpkgFeeds, http://www.zauruszone.com/feed, http://openzaurus.sf.net/feeds/unstable/, or http://www.zauruii.com/zfi |
| 08:25:20 | smee | ibot: feed |
| 08:26:16 | Hauke | mmmmm.... feeds.... |
| 08:26:20 | HighNo | hm, it appears in "appearance" but if i select it and select "apply" appearance crashes, if i select it and klick on "OK" it asks to restart OPIE and even if it does, there is no change at all |
| 08:26:22 | Hauke | sharpens the carving knife |
| 08:26:47 | smee | HighNo: beats me :) |
| 08:27:21 | HighNo | thanks anyway - are you using 2.9.5.5? |
| 08:27:29 | smee | yeah |
| 08:27:38 | HighNo | and liquid? |
| 08:27:38 | smee | yeah |
| 08:27:46 | HighNo | hm, damn... |
| 08:27:47 | HighNo | :) |
| 08:28:07 | HighNo | hm, which packets did you update aber flashing oz? |
| 08:28:09 | smee | hm, I got it from here: http://openzaurus.sourceforge.net/feeds/3.0/ |
| 08:28:52 | smee | there's newer stuff here: |
| 08:28:55 | | smee: sorry... |
| 08:28:55 | smee | ibot optimised |
| 08:28:59 | | i heard optimized was new fully optmized opie/qte oz release at http://openzaurus.sourceforge.net/unofficial/unstable/optimized/ or update from the feed (tested from 2.9.5.5) http://openzaurus.sourceforge.net/unofficial/unstable/optimized/feed/ or or onyx4's at http://onyx4.dhs.org/feed/oz/ or get konq/e at http://131.152.105.154/feeds/ipaq/unstable/konqueror-snapshot-full_0.9.1-20020912.2_arm.ipk |
| 08:28:59 | smee | ibot optimized |
| 08:29:58 | HighNo | so that's the feed i need to use to update and install new software? |
| 08:30:09 | smee | HighNo: I dont think any need updating, but this tells you how to upgrade everything: |
| 08:30:13 | | update oz is probably http://psifertex.com/zaurus/ozupdate.html |
| 08:30:13 | smee | ibot update oz |
| 08:30:23 | HighNo | thx |
| 08:30:26 | smee | np |
| 08:31:06 | smee | HighNo: ignore the line about removing wget - that's out of date |
| 08:32:08 | HighNo | ok |
| 08:32:09 | HighNo | thx |
| 08:33:12 | HighNo | if everything works i will put up a report on openzaurus on our webpage (www.z-portal.info) |
| 08:35:32 | smee | cool |
| 08:35:47 | smee | tux seems to be holding his zaurus backwards ;) |
| 08:36:40 | HighNo | right, as always he's not actually working but showing off :) |
| 08:36:47 | smee | hehe |
| 08:40:47 | HighNo | smee: there's an error in the updating description |
| 08:41:37 | smee | HighNo: yeah - it's a bit out of date, but still gives the right sequence |
| 08:41:39 | HighNo | it tells to wget busybox...20020927-4... there's just a ...20020923-4... (just if you maintain that page) |
| 08:42:10 | smee | yeah - I dont maintain it - the maintainer knows it's out of date though, thx |
| 08:44:11 | HighNo | doh - we just talked abouit it and guess what - i removed wget... |
| 08:44:19 | HighNo | stupid... |
| 08:44:32 | smee | hehe |
| 08:44:54 | HighNo | of course everything else doesn't work now |
| 08:44:59 | smee | ;) |
| 08:45:41 | HighNo | when it says 'run the terminal' it means the opie-terminal or leaving opie to console? |
| 08:46:20 | smee | opie one |
| 08:46:46 | smee | I just run ipkg upgrade rather than using oipkg to upgrade tha packages |
| 08:47:07 | smee | hopefully there'll be a new rom out soon |
| 08:48:17 | smee | brb |
| 08:50:51 | smee | erk |
| 08:50:59 | HighNo | rerererererere :) |
| 08:51:56 | HighNo | "your scrollback buffer has now been cleared of any valueable information"... |
| 08:52:57 | scanline | whee.. automatic scroll bars on all SDL apps that need them |
| 08:53:32 | HighNo | that reminds me to install the new sdl-libs and frodo... |
| 08:56:01 | Twiun | Mornin' |
| 08:57:12 | brainless | morning |
| 09:24:04 | HighNo | how do i boot oz to text mode? |
| 09:25:14 | HighNo | never mind, found a workaround... |
| 09:27:41 | smee | HighNo: you cant...just boot as usual and killall qpe |
| 09:28:06 | scanline | that should be fixed when kergoth has the boot menu done |
| 09:31:38 | HighNo | oh my, thats why i love this thing :) |
| 09:32:27 | HighNo | wow, updating is a breeze if you know how to do :) |
| 09:33:26 | paq | HighNo - use debian much? you can get the same high on it ;) |
| 09:34:36 | HighNo | actually i am what they call a Yasty |
| 09:34:43 | HighNo | (at least in germany) |
| 09:34:57 | HighNo | so i normally use SuSE |
| 09:35:31 | paq | ah =) |
| 09:35:34 | HighNo | which i do like, but updating is "not-existant" |
| 09:37:09 | HighNo | they have that updating option but it is a non-written law to to each update "manually" (reinstall the system instead!) |
| 09:38:36 | paq | lol |
| 09:39:38 | paq | it's really not much in their interest to provide ppl with perpetually nearly seamless upgrade path... |
| 09:40:32 | HighNo | ooops, updating oz is not such a breeze - it got stuck. i rebootet and opie didn't come up |
| 09:40:54 | smee | there's a LD_LIBRARY_PATH problem iirc |
| 09:41:11 | smee | libqpe and libqte |
| 09:41:30 | HighNo | hm, error message as follows: |
| 09:42:19 | HighNo | : /etc/rc3.d/S98opie: cannot create /proc/sys/ts/suspend_button_mode: No such file or directory |
| 09:42:30 | HighNo | Unknown processor type --! |
| 09:42:40 | smee | ook...never seen that, hehe |
| 09:42:53 | HighNo | chut: UT_ACTIVATE: Bad file descriptor |
| 09:43:24 | HighNo | now my baby lies hier with a plain login and a non-working keyboard |
| 09:43:46 | smee | time to throw it away and get a pocketpc I guess |
| 09:43:48 | smee | ;) |
| 09:43:55 | HighNo | right |
| 09:44:08 | HighNo | can anyone please send me his pocketpc2002 rom? |
| 09:44:31 | HighNo | wow, this error is very strange |
| 09:44:59 | HighNo | the keyboard is not really dead, instead i get a character on screen everytime i press a button and another one when released |
| 09:45:10 | scanline | HighNo: your tty is in raw mode |
| 09:45:32 | scanline | HighNo: that's what would happen if you did a "kill -9" on qte, for example |
| 09:45:42 | HighNo | maybe, but that doesn't help me much now :) it came up this way |
| 09:45:54 | HighNo | right after booting |
| 09:46:29 | HighNo | hm, i'll give it another try |
| 09:47:05 | HighNo | i really like that openzaurus/opie-logo but i tend to see it too often now... |
| 09:47:51 | smee | maybe that's why tux is holding it with the face away from him in the logo ;) |
| 09:47:58 | HighNo | hehe |
| 09:50:28 | HighNo | hm, i can still login via ssh, any help for rescuing my system? |
| 09:51:13 | scanline | /etc/init.d/opie start |
| 09:51:36 | HighNo | doesnt come up |
| 09:51:43 | scanline | does it give an error? |
| 09:51:53 | HighNo | still quits with the "Unknown processor type --!" |
| 09:52:13 | scanline | ask someone in #opie |
| 09:52:18 | HighNo | hehe |
| 09:57:13 | HighNo | one last help maybe? how do i tell ipkg to install to rom, not to ram? |
| 09:57:46 | HighNo | i know there must be something like -d but what's the directory then= |
| 09:57:46 | scanline | it installs to flash by default |
| 09:58:18 | HighNo | it didn't here |
| 09:58:23 | HighNo | thats why i ask |
| 09:58:35 | scanline | "root" i think |
| 09:58:50 | HighNo | i tried to reinstall opie-base which didn't work |
| 09:59:01 | HighNo | so i deleted it with -force-depends |
| 09:59:16 | HighNo | i reinstalled it then and it went to ram |
| 10:00:02 | HighNo | "root" looks good |
| 10:00:59 | scanline | j |
| 10:01:02 | scanline | oops |
| 10:01:42 | HighNo | this thing is getting strange by the minute... |
| 10:01:59 | HighNo | now opie-base is back, but whats missing is the opie-start-script |
| 10:02:10 | scanline | this is really funny... I'm debugging some blitter code that I'm running under scummvm.. it's not blitting from the source bitmap properly, so when characters move around on the screen you see bits of other things on the screen wiggle around where the character should be walking |
| 10:03:20 | smee | weirdness all round :) /me runs to the shops |
| 10:03:56 | HighNo | gosh, opie again didn't install to rom but to ram again |
| 10:21:45 | HighNo | hm, is there an automatic check for enough space in ipkg? it keeps installing a package to ram tho i try to install it to rom |
| 11:04:31 | badl | so many people such little talk! |
| 11:04:44 | Twiun | yup - either working or sleeping ;-) |
| 11:04:56 | badl | well your one voice ;) |
| 11:05:20 | badl | so what might you be doing then? |
| 11:07:05 | scanline | boo |
| 11:07:34 | badl | who |
| 11:08:39 | scanline | moo |
| 11:09:02 | badl | ..said the cow |
| 11:11:56 | Twiun | badl: I be still working on fbawt... |
| 11:12:10 | Twiun | badl: and doing housework and watching tv... |
| 11:12:23 | Twiun | badl: nothing much to do until I get a new job ;-) |
| 11:12:27 | badl | smae here |
| 11:12:41 | badl | just compiling LFS 4.0 |
| 11:13:44 | scanline | is beating the bugs out of his rotated blit primitive with a very sharp stick |
| 11:16:19 | badl | Twiun: what line of work you looking at>? |
| 11:18:50 | Twiun | badl: Java software engineer - preferrably without a j2ee requirement ;-) |
| 11:19:51 | Twiun | badl: got a second-round interview with a company called Entuity this thursday |
| 11:20:06 | badl | look hopeful? |
| 11:21:15 | badl | wonders how great a job would be to get paid developing for the Z ;) |
| 11:21:20 | Twiun | I think so - got 90% in their java test (not all that hard really) |
| 11:21:34 | badl | tests! bah |
| 11:22:06 | Twiun | yeah, got a *logic* test coming up... |
| 11:22:46 | badl | if you want to try your logic... try out albert einstiens riddle ;) |
| 11:25:25 | Twiun | nah... I think I'll just research their website and get the job on my personality(??) alone... |
| 11:26:39 | badl | heh |
| 11:56:37 | bryanhunt | hello all |
| 11:57:10 | badl | hello! |
| 11:57:33 | Twiun | Hiya! |
| 11:57:46 | bryanhunt | anyone ever used the poptop linux client ? |
| 11:58:20 | bryanhunt | provides vpn capability with linux and windoze systems |
| 11:58:56 | badl | nope |
| 11:59:01 | bryanhunt | has anyone patched/created module for the zaurus kernel with mppe ? |
| 12:21:09 | numatrix | is back (gone 14:48:47) |
| 12:22:01 | Twiun | numatrix: Finally! how did we manage without you? |
| 12:22:12 | Twiun | grins |
| 12:26:04 | badl | 4RED |
| 12:26:17 | numatrix | Twiun: :-) |
| 12:26:20 | numatrix | bows gratiously. |
| 12:44:22 | darienm | sugar, coffee |
| 12:44:30 | darienm | sugar, make me a coffee |
| 12:44:30 | Sugar | pours some coffee from a machine into a cup, adds a cookie and hands it to darienm. |
| 12:44:43 | darienm | Mmmmm, thanks |
| 12:44:48 | Sniper | sugar, make me an irish coffee |
| 12:44:48 | Sugar | pours some irish coffee from a machine into a cup, adds a cookie and hands it to Sniper. |
| 12:45:19 | darienm | what kind of cookie did you get? I got a chocolate/peanut butter Oreo |
| 12:45:31 | Sniper | i got a beef cookie |
| 12:45:35 | darienm | ewww |
| 12:45:56 | darienm | I got a Zaurus sitting here collecting dust. |
| 12:46:39 | ljp_work | I got a rock |
| 12:46:50 | smee | sugar, make me a beef cookie |
| 12:46:50 | Sugar | opens a locker, takes out a beef cookie and hands it to smee. |
| 12:46:55 | smee | yum |
| 12:47:14 | darienm | sugar, make me a macho sexy man |
| 12:47:16 | Sugar | Yeah right, luser! |
| 12:48:40 | xtmdster | Speaking of Zaurus's collecting dust... |
| 12:49:37 | xtmdster | Does qtopia desktop for linux really exist? |
| 12:49:50 | Twiun | xtmdster: sure |
| 12:50:01 | Twiun | it's on their ftp site |
| 12:50:23 | smee | ftp://ftp.trolltech.com/qtopia/ |
| 12:51:17 | xtmdster | It has a calander and contact list and will sync with the Zaurus? |
| 12:51:28 | xtmdster | Maybe even email? |
| 12:52:10 | rikkus | it doesn't sync with the Zaurus if you connect it via USB |
| 12:54:01 | xtmdster | I d/led qt-x11-eval-3.0.5 and followed all the instructions. Did I get the wrong thing? It looks like a development suite. I can find the qtopia desktop stuff. |
| 12:54:09 | xtmdster | can't, I mean. |
| 12:56:04 | xtmdster | rikkus: That figures. Even the windows software it came with never worked until I called Sharp and made them walk me through it. |
| 12:56:37 | ljp_work | yoyu mean it doesn sync if connected through eth, USB sync works |
| 12:57:14 | scanline | xtmdster: that file is the qt library for X, it has nothing to do with the zaurus |
| 12:58:14 | chouimat | morning |
| 12:58:40 | xtmdster | That's what I thought. But that's what the Trolltech website feeds you when you click your way to a desktop download. |
| 12:59:33 | xtmdster | Took forever to gmake it too. |
| 13:00:00 | badl | xtmdster: yeah 3-4 hours ;) |
| 13:00:46 | xtmdster | I dunno. I fell asleep! |
| 13:01:29 | xtmdster | Ok, I'm on the ftp site. Is 1.6 worth messing with or should I get 1.5? |
| 13:02:58 | xtmdster | 1.6 just came out yesterday I think. |
| 13:03:46 | badl | xtmdster: i thought 1.6 was still in beta |
| 13:03:58 | xtmdster | No wait, that's the old 1.6 on the site. |
| 13:04:41 | xtmdster | Yeah, it is. I think beta 2 came out yesterday. I was just reading about it this morning. |
| 13:04:52 | mickeyl | is leaving for a while... |
| 13:06:38 | JasonNJ | wheres the download for the new OZ? |
| 13:06:52 | Twiun | Hiya JasonNJ |
| 13:07:55 | JasonNJ | morning |
| 13:09:28 | chouimat | damn! I just erased my commercial copy of the qtopia sdk :( |
| 13:09:38 | Twiun | chouimat: Woops! |
| 13:09:59 | Twiun | JasonNJ: Finally got off my butt and started doing some Java dev for the Z ;-) |
| 13:10:43 | chouimat | Twiun:my HD died . It's really dead :( |
| 13:11:23 | Twiun | chouimat: I feel for you... went through that about a month back |
| 13:11:30 | Twiun | chouimat: backups? RAID? |
| 13:13:17 | chouimat | Twiun: no backup. no raid |
| 13:13:51 | chouimat | Twiun: mailed trolltech |
| 13:15:07 | Twiun | chouimat: lets hope there's a quick turnaround |
| 13:16:11 | chouimat | Twiun: yeah |
| 13:17:06 | benmeyer | Morning |
| 13:17:12 | tux_mike | hey ben |
| 13:17:18 | scanline | isn't free software great |
| 13:17:25 | Twiun | Hiya benmeyer |
| 13:17:26 | Sniper | hey ben |
| 13:17:36 | Twiun | Hiya Sniper |
| 13:17:37 | Sniper | can u review br33y app |
| 13:17:45 | Sniper | he keeps /msg me |
| 13:17:52 | Sniper | hi twiun |
| 13:18:15 | badl | endorsement! |
| 13:19:00 | treke|home | /ignore is your friend |
| 13:20:20 | chouimat | hi benmeyer Sniper |
| 13:22:02 | chouimat | hi prpplague |
| 13:23:01 | prpplague | chouimat: morning |
| 13:23:42 | Sniper | hi |
| 13:23:47 | zoner | hello |
| 13:24:00 | benmeyer | br33y? |
| 13:25:33 | scanline | is away: breakfast |
| 13:28:35 | xtmdster | Ok, I'm still not understanding this. I already had qtopia-free-1.5.0 installed from a few weeks ago. But I looked at it and it looks like a development suite too. Where is the synch stuff? |
| 13:30:48 | DaJoker | xtmdster: ftp://ftp.trolltech.com/qtopia/qtopia-desktop-1.6.0beta1-1.i386.rpm |
| 13:32:54 | benmeyer | http://www.hgsc.bcm.tmc.edu/~kdurbin/zsync.html |
| 13:32:58 | benmeyer | progress |
| 13:33:25 | kergoth | hey |
| 13:33:41 | darienm | Morning kergoth: Seems you met my father last nite. (lucky you) |
| 13:33:48 | kergoth | I did? |
| 13:33:50 | kergoth | looks confused |
| 13:33:53 | darienm | He was the one asking about IR printing |
| 13:33:59 | kergoth | ah |
| 13:34:09 | kergoth | had no idea on that one |
| 13:34:11 | darienm | I may have made a mistake telling him how to get on IRC :) |
| 13:34:16 | darienm | time will tell |
| 13:34:17 | kergoth | hah |
| 13:34:26 | chouimat | darienm: bad boy |
| 13:34:43 | darienm | 'course it was he who first told me about IRC back in '92-'93 |
| 13:34:52 | darienm | but the clients were bad |
| 13:35:50 | kergoth | thats what i need this morning |
| 13:35:55 | kergoth | cranks up some industrial music |
| 13:35:56 | kolla | darienm: anyone who have coded a client would tell you the protocol itself is quite maniac :) |
| 13:36:07 | tux_mike | kerg: is that the new version of OZ that i see? |
| 13:36:26 | kergoth | tux_mike: see? where? what? |
| 13:36:35 | darienm | kolla: in the early early days there were few IRC clients, even fewer for Mac. I remember using some client with a big blue bull or cow as the mascot. |
| 13:36:36 | xtmdster | Thanks benmeyer, but I'm not lucky (or smart) enough to have an Apple. |
| 13:36:38 | tux_mike | on killefiz |
| 13:37:00 | kergoth | tux_mike: no, someone posted openzaurus and gave it higher exposure before its next release |
| 13:37:06 | kergoth | tux_mike: I'm quite pissed off about it to. |
| 13:37:09 | kergoth | s/to/too/ |
| 13:37:17 | kolla | for mac? hehe... ircle |
| 13:37:21 | tux_mike | ugh |
| 13:37:22 | kergoth | tux_mike: I would rather have gotten another stable release out before giving it higher exposure |
| 13:37:30 | JasonNJ | kerg: you got new initrds? |
| 13:37:36 | xtmdster | DaJoker: Should I uninstall 1.5.0 first? |
| 13:37:43 | darienm | HOMER |
| 13:37:45 | darienm | it was called HOMER |
| 13:37:50 | kergoth | JasonNJ: I'm adding a bootup menu to choose opie/console/picogui atm :) |
| 13:37:57 | DaJoker | xtmdster: sure, if you feel like it.. but it should upgrade overtop |
| 13:38:03 | kolla | ok, I think ircle is older |
| 13:38:04 | kergoth | JasonNJ: works pretty well actually |
| 13:38:20 | xtmdster | Thanks, I'll give it a shot. |
| 13:38:57 | darienm | kolla: http://www.ex.ac.uk/~jastaple/irc/homerqs.html (for partial screens) |
| 13:39:08 | chouimat | kergoth: I will judge that (the bootmenu) |
| 13:39:13 | kergoth | chouimat: :) |
| 13:39:22 | kergoth | chouimat: we'll have a few of them. this is just a first, a ncurses/dialog based one |
| 13:39:32 | kergoth | chouimat: scanline has a picogui based one, we can alter to use this same system |
| 13:39:44 | kolla | darienm: yep, I remember I tried it a few times |
| 13:39:45 | kergoth | chouimat: and an opie based menu would be easy enough as well |
| 13:39:52 | JasonNJ | kergoth: someone released an openzaurus alpha? |
| 13:40:00 | kergoth | IS IT YOU |
| 13:40:02 | kolla | had some nice homer samples |
| 13:40:03 | kergoth | sings along to Wumpscut |
| 13:40:14 | kergoth | JasonNJ: no, they just added the old 2.9.5.5 openzaurus to killefiz |
| 13:40:15 | bryanhunt | what if you want the openzaurus but you prefer opera to konqueror/ eb is this easy? |
| 13:40:35 | kergoth | bryanhunt: you can rip opera out of sharp rom, i've heard of some difficulties, but havent had time to look into it |
| 13:40:45 | bryanhunt | cool |
| 13:41:54 | kolla | kergoth: did I mention I got affix working with sharp rom? |
| 13:41:56 | chouimat | bryanhunt: have at least 1.5MB free in the ram disk |
| 13:42:10 | kergoth | kolla: nah, ya didnt |
| 13:42:15 | kolla | ok, it does :) |
| 13:42:22 | kergoth | nice |
| 13:42:28 | kolla | yap |
| 13:42:35 | xtmdster | That's more like it. Thanks, DaJoker. Dunno why it didn't work before. |
| 13:42:44 | kergoth | JasonNJ: zecke and stefan started merging the new opie pim system into cvs head |
| 13:42:56 | kergoth | JasonNJ: cross reference support, sql and xml backends, the whole deal |
| 13:42:56 | kolla | qtopia crashes when I insert the card though |
| 13:43:07 | JasonNJ | kergoth: nice. |
| 13:43:10 | kolla | but when it comes up it can use it |
| 13:43:25 | chouimat | kergoth: cross-reference? like links on the palm? |
| 13:43:27 | kergoth | JasonNJ: recurring todos! |
| 13:43:31 | kergoth | chouimat: yep |
| 13:43:34 | kergoth | chouimat: i think anyway |
| 13:43:37 | kergoth | never owned a palm |
| 13:43:47 | chouimat | kergoth: cooooooooool |
| 13:43:53 | bryanhunt | if konqueror eb works on z and sambaclient is on z as well can u use konqueror plugins like the smb client ? theres a small lib that korganiser embeded uses, is this the same as konq, does it support dcop etc ? |
| 13:43:57 | scanline | is back (gone 00:18:24) |
| 13:44:10 | chouimat | hey picoman |
| 13:45:17 | kergoth | picoman? hah. scanline, are you a superhero now? |
| 13:46:12 | kolla | is it a dead corpse? is it a swamp monster? No! It is Picoman! |
| 13:46:47 | scanline | haha |
| 13:46:49 | scanline | is trying to keep his head exploding... solving a clipping/rotation problem in four coordinate systems for picogui's rotateblit problem |
| 13:47:00 | scanline | hehe |
| 13:47:10 | scanline | makes funny growling noises near kolla |
| 13:47:19 | kolla | there should be a GUI version of pine, then you could make picopico :) |
| 13:47:21 | chouimat | scanline: I can use picogui for commercial app? |
| 13:47:33 | scanline | chouimat: sure |
| 13:47:49 | chouimat | scanline: :) |
| 13:47:54 | scanline | chouimat: the server is GPLed, but the clients are LGPL.. and since the protocol is well documented you don't even have to use the official client libraries if you want |
| 13:48:17 | kolla | I remember there used to be a GUI-hack for pine on amiga way back, not too bad |
| 13:48:21 | scanline | chouimat: so if you make a new video driver or widget for the server, it has to be GPL.. but applications can by anything |
| 13:48:40 | scanline | s/by/be/ |
| 13:48:59 | chouimat | scanline: that might cause some problem with my customer. need to check |
| 13:49:07 | scanline | Who controls the British Crown? |
| 13:49:10 | scanline | Who keeps the metric system down? |
| 13:49:14 | scanline | We do, we do. |
| 13:49:18 | scanline | Who keeps Atlantis off the maps? |
| 13:49:22 | scanline | Who keeps the Martians under wraps? |
| 13:49:26 | scanline | We do, we do. |
| 13:49:31 | scanline | has this song stuck in his head! |
| 13:49:40 | kolla | wee doo wee doo.. sounds like an ambulance :) |
| 13:49:46 | kergoth | hah |
| 13:49:49 | scanline | it's from the simpsons |
| 13:50:09 | kergoth | mm dew |
| 13:50:22 | scanline | is jealous of kergoth's dew |
| 13:50:23 | chouimat | scanline: btw do you know the argument from ultraconservative american against the metric system? |
| 13:50:26 | | BigBoss was last seen on #zaurus 9 hours, 37 minutes and 32 seconds ago, saying: what is fceultra? [Tue Oct 8 05:12:54 2002] |
| 13:50:26 | benmeyer | ibot seen BigBoss |
| 13:50:32 | scanline | chouimat: what? |
| 13:50:36 | | benmeyer: excuse me? |
| 13:50:36 | benmeyer | ibot fceultra |
| 13:51:05 | chouimat | scanline: If God wanted us to use the Metric System, Jesus would have only taked 10 apostoles |
| 13:51:09 | scanline | should get around to trying to crosscompile FCE Ultra... |
| 13:51:16 | scanline | chouimat: hahaha |
| 13:51:19 | kergoth | lol |
| 13:51:43 | chouimat | kergoth: actually i like this one |
| 13:52:59 | kolla | chouimat: if there was a God, he/she'd give us 12 fingers and 12 toes :) |
| 13:52:59 | kergoth | argh |
| 13:53:05 | kergoth | beats opie with a sharp instrument |
| 13:53:13 | scanline | cheers ;) |
| 13:53:23 | kergoth | scanline: wheres that vt handling code you learned from again? |
| 13:53:24 | kergoth | scanline: :) |
| 13:53:27 | chouimat | kergoth: don't use your ZAurus todo that :) |
| 13:53:36 | scanline | kergoth: microwindows source |
| 13:53:38 | BigBoss | what do you need ben? |
| 13:53:40 | kergoth | scanline: I cant fuckign spawn opie via the bootmenu without Bad Things happening |
| 13:54:04 | scanline | kergoth: have you tried picogui yet? it won't be much better without the VT switching code enabled |
| 13:54:08 | scanline | I should test that... |
| 13:54:42 | kergoth | from a shell script started via inittab, how do i attach myself to a tty other than tty1 |
| 13:54:45 | kergoth | ? |
| 13:55:00 | kergoth | I just used file descriptor redirection to redirect my stdin and stdout to the tty it sets on the cmdline |
| 13:55:08 | kergoth | but thats not sufficient when it comes to spawning something that uses the fb |
| 13:55:10 | kolla | shy not flip between the vt's using the stylus? |
| 13:55:12 | kolla | why |
| 13:55:18 | kergoth | i dont want chvt, because that changes the *foreground* vt |
| 13:55:23 | scanline | kergoth: it's up to the app using the fb to determine what vt it's on |
| 13:55:39 | kergoth | scanline: hmmm openvt perhaps? |
| 13:55:48 | kergoth | damnit, i want a quick and dirty solution! |
| 13:55:50 | kergoth | hehe |
| 13:55:51 | kergoth | ah well |
| 13:55:56 | scanline | It depends... whether opie has it hardcoded or it uses the current vt |
| 13:56:07 | JasonNJ | oh man this is funny. |
| 13:56:09 | JasonNJ | http://www.emailpioneer.com/bear/index.html |
| 13:56:13 | chouimat | why do it well when you can hack it :) |
| 13:56:17 | kolla | make a little square in the upper right corner, so one can tap to flip through the virtual consoles :) |
| 13:56:27 | kergoth | scanline: I know for a fact it uses current, because i can chvt 2, run opie, hang until exit, and chvt back to 1 where the getty is sitting |
| 13:56:45 | kergoth | scanline: so openvt should be a hackish solution until i fix opie's vt handling |
| 13:56:47 | kergoth | eh? |
| 13:56:57 | scanline | hopefully |
| 13:57:02 | kergoth | kolla: how about a weird ass key combination? :) |
| 13:57:26 | kolla | configurable sure.. why not both? :) |
| 13:57:37 | kergoth | hehe |
| 13:57:45 | kergoth | wants picogui on one vt, getty on another, and opie on another |
| 13:57:46 | kergoth | damnit! |
| 13:57:50 | kergoth | :) |
| 13:57:51 | scanline | The square thing is pretty much impossible to do without special code in each GUI you're running |
| 13:58:07 | scanline | and the kernel, for the console's sake |
| 13:58:15 | kolla | scanline: why... hack it into the kernel where it belongs :) |
| 13:58:46 | chouimat | JasonNJ: thanks. just found my xmas presents :) |
| 13:58:50 | kolla | waves his "this is embedded" banner :) |
| 13:58:57 | scanline | kolla: the kernel couldn't keep the square there without major hackishness in the framebuffer and touchscreen.. since the GUI could overwrite it at any time it would have to keep redrawing it, causing flicker if you're playing a video or something under that |
| 13:59:15 | JasonNJ | chou: I am ordering one right now |
| 13:59:18 | kolla | scanline: make it invisible, but still there |
| 13:59:29 | kergoth | scanline: hacking the display of anything into the kernel short of the boot logo would be evil |
| 13:59:33 | kergoth | scanline: imho :) |
| 13:59:33 | scanline | kolla: then you'd still need the kernel to be aware of touchscreen calibration |
| 13:59:41 | scanline | kergoth: I agree |
| 13:59:44 | chouimat | JasonNJ: for you I hope :) |
| 13:59:57 | kolla | wossies! :) |
| 14:00:20 | kolla | thinks entire gui engine should be in kernel on such a device.. but that's me :) |
| 14:00:26 | kergoth | kolla: its not th kernel's job to interface with the user |
| 14:00:39 | kolla | kergoth: so you keep telling me :) |
| 14:00:42 | kergoth | kolla: so you advocate the opposite of qnx? :) |
| 14:00:47 | kolla | yes |
| 14:00:51 | scanline | kolla: PalmOS? |
| 14:00:59 | kergoth | still likes qnx on these devices |
| 14:01:01 | kolla | what's wrong with multitasking? |
| 14:01:07 | kolla | and proper memory handling :) |
| 14:01:07 | scanline | it's "Compile everything into one binary and hope it doesn't crash" |
| 14:01:23 | kergoth | *ahem* bloat! |
| 14:01:24 | kergoth | heh |
| 14:01:33 | kolla | just because palmos sucks doesnt mean that _all_ aspects of it sucks :) |
| 14:01:36 | chouimat | wonders if a port of AROS for the Z would be could |
| 14:01:45 | kolla | chouimat: indeed |
| 14:02:07 | scanline | kolla: that's a true statement in general, but putting the GUI in the kernel is not a good idea... there's no benefit and several drawbacks |
| 14:02:13 | chouimat | kolla: they I have done it for the palm |
| 14:02:15 | kolla | chouimat: it's my intention to give a go, just need some time and a working gcc setup on the Z to get going :) |
| 14:02:31 | kolla | chouimat: I know |
| 14:03:11 | kolla | scanline: the benefits is a system that actually responds to user actions |
| 14:03:11 | kergoth | er |
| 14:03:22 | kergoth | man, checking microwindows out of cvs takes a bit |
| 14:03:23 | chouimat | scanline: palmos sucks but for what it intended to do it does a pretty good job |
| 14:03:25 | scanline | kolla: how do you figure that? |
| 14:03:33 | kergoth | kolla: and the current system doesnt? |
| 14:03:49 | scanline | chouimat: PalmOS is great for users assuming you don't need anything too powerful, but it's terrible on programmers and power users |
| 14:03:56 | kolla | kergoth: nope, a crashed opie is much a dead PDA as a crashed kernel, to most users |
| 14:04:05 | kergoth | kolla: so fix opie |
| 14:04:14 | kergoth | kolla: you'd rather the whoel kernel crash and burn? |
| 14:04:18 | kolla | yep |
| 14:04:19 | kergoth | kolla: its functionally dead either way |
| 14:04:23 | kergoth | kolla: again, you gain nothing. |
| 14:04:24 | scanline | kolla: how do you think putting the GUI in the kernel makes it more responsive? |
| 14:04:28 | chouimat | scanline: I know. still need to debug out some aspect of a palm app |
| 14:04:38 | kergoth | some layers of abstraction are necessary to maintain sanity |
| 14:04:39 | kergoth | heh |
| 14:04:43 | scanline | chouimat: the memory management and GUI capabilities in PalmOS are terrible |
| 14:05:07 | kolla | a simple and quick reboot that brings back a working system in a flash is way better than a hanging system that requires flipping the reset button followed by a dread slow bootup with a tedious filechecking and who knows what :) |
| 14:05:19 | chouimat | scanline: One thread for the ui and another for the app. If I remeber corectly |
| 14:05:21 | scanline | kolla: none of that has anything to do with the GUI |
| 14:05:30 | kolla | no, it has to do with OS design |
| 14:05:50 | chouimat | kolla: port eros on the z then |
| 14:05:53 | kolla | wether a GUI should be part of the OS or not |
| 14:06:07 | kolla | imho - on a PDA it should |
| 14:06:15 | scanline | kolla: you still haven't answered my question, what do you gain my merging the GUI and OS? |
| 14:06:45 | kolla | scanline: first of all.. consistansy.. which is good provided you have a good styleguide |
| 14:06:59 | chouimat | scanline: M$ done it and we knoiw the result |
| 14:07:04 | kergoth | kolla: you can get consistency without putting it in the kernel. |
| 14:07:23 | kolla | second.. an OS that can interact with the user directly, without going through layers upong layers of userland code |
| 14:07:26 | scanline | kolla: that's nothing that couldn't be solved by having a standard GUI used with the OS.. there's a difference between consistency and sacrificing stability and modularity |
| 14:07:33 | kergoth | kolla: and thats good? |
| 14:07:40 | kolla | kergoth: ya, but how often does that happen :) |
| 14:07:53 | kolla | kergoth: well, yes, to me it is |
| 14:07:59 | kergoth | kolla: i'd like to see an end user cope with a message directly from the kernel. |
| 14:08:06 | kergoth | kolla: cause not many could. |
| 14:08:07 | scanline | kolla: the OS and GUI are really fundamentally different. the OS interfaces programs to hardware, the GUI interfaces programs to the user. from the OS's point of view, the GUI is just another program |
| 14:08:10 | chouimat | kolla: even QNX doesn't do that |
| 14:08:18 | kolla | ofcourse, linux isnt capable of giving meaningfull human readable output anyways :) |
| 14:08:23 | NetAmp | ok, where are the IPK experts? :P |
| 14:08:27 | kergoth | chouimat: qnx is the virtual opposite of his approach |
| 14:08:32 | kolla | I dont care what QNX does or doesnt do |
| 14:08:41 | scanline | kolla: it's not linux's job to give user-friendly output, it's the software you're running |
| 14:08:53 | scanline | the user should never see linux |
| 14:08:59 | chouimat | kolla: it's like Microware OS-9, one of the best embedded os |
| 14:09:02 | kergoth | scanline: thtas a quote from linus, isnt it? |
| 14:09:04 | NetAmp | I uninstalled Qtopia GNUboy but it didn't actually remove anything except the entry from the 'installed packages' screen :S |
| 14:09:07 | kergoth | scanline: the user should never see linux? |
| 14:09:10 | scanline | kergoth: something like that |
| 14:09:11 | kergoth | scanline: seems to ring a bell |
| 14:09:15 | scanline | nods |
| 14:09:32 | kolla | it has lots of "geek legacy".. it was made for rocket scientists and powerplant survilance and other _real_ embedded use.. not your userfriendly and easy to use electronic notepad :) |
| 14:09:39 | chouimat | kergoth: WinCE GUI is in the kernel right? |
| 14:09:50 | kergoth | kolla: define 'real embedded use' |
| 14:09:54 | kolla | industrial |
| 14:10:01 | kolla | expert users |
| 14:10:06 | scanline | chouimat: WinCE's GUI isn't really in the kernel, it's in a layer of DLLs on top of the kernel |
| 14:10:15 | kergoth | kolla: so design an easy to use OS. putting it in the kenrel doesnt make it user friendly. |
| 14:10:16 | chouimat | scanline: and it's crap |
| 14:10:22 | kergoth | kolla: er an easy to use GUI i mean |
| 14:10:28 | NetAmp | that's sick, WinCE |
| 14:10:29 | kolla | or strictly limited user interaction, such as washing machine |
| 14:10:31 | NetAmp | ghehe |
| 14:10:42 | NetAmp | So does anyone know? |
| 14:10:43 | kergoth | kolla: putting the GUI in the kernel will not solve the problem. |
| 14:10:44 | scanline | chouimat: Probably.. I haven't used WinCE in years |
| 14:10:51 | kolla | kergoth: what problem? |
| 14:10:58 | NetAmp | How I can find out which files the GNUboy package left? |
| 14:11:01 | chouimat | scanline: I'm playing with my old OS-9 disk in mess |
| 14:11:37 | NetAmp | Today I saw an ancient PC-DOS 2.0 book in college |
| 14:11:38 | kolla | kergoth: would certainly solve the problem of switching consoles using the stylus :) |
| 14:11:46 | NetAmp | it brought back memories ;) |
| 14:12:15 | chouimat | NetAmp: I'm speaking about Color Computer OS-9 :) |
| 14:12:16 | kolla | how does pios do this stuff? |
| 14:12:24 | kolla | sorry.. no pios.. wew.. |
| 14:12:29 | kolla | I mean.. symbian |
| 14:12:38 | kolla | osion |
| 14:12:41 | kolla | psion even |
| 14:12:41 | kergoth | kolla: you were bringing up the fact that linux is hard to use. that it wasnt designed for the end user. putting the GUI into the kernel will not solve a user interface problem |
| 14:12:48 | NetAmp | chouimat: heh ok something entirely different ;) but then I thought of DOS.. i shouldn't it isn't healthy :P |
| 14:12:54 | NetAmp | psion == cool :D |
| 14:13:04 | kolla | kergoth: ofcourse not |
| 14:13:09 | scanline | kolla: that's not really a function of the GUI, it's the fact that most embedded systems don't use the kernel's input layer for touchscreen yet |
| 14:13:14 | kolla | kergoth: putting a GUI into _a_ kernel :) |
| 14:13:18 | kergoth | scanline: exactly |
| 14:13:19 | chouimat | NetAmp: 8bit computer with a real multitasking OS in 1983 |
| 14:13:23 | NetAmp | f.e. like I'm having end-user problems with my packages :P |
| 14:13:28 | kergoth | kolla: it isnt putting the gui into the kernel that solves that problem. |
| 14:13:36 | kolla | no the linux kernel no |
| 14:13:41 | kergoth | kolla: its designing a proper UI, regardless of whether its user space or kernel space, that will solve the problem |
| 14:13:42 | NetAmp | chouimat: sweet. I was like.. 2 years old back in '83 ;) |
| 14:13:45 | kergoth | kolla: no, not at aall. |
| 14:13:45 | kolla | replace the darn thing :) |
| 14:13:55 | kergoth | kolla: wehther its user or kernel space is irrelevent to its interface |
| 14:14:00 | scanline | kolla: so go replace it, see ya in 5 years :P |
| 14:14:03 | chouimat | NetAmp: was 9 |
| 14:14:07 | NetAmp | chouimat: so I'm from '81 *TADADAM the M$-year* :o |
| 14:14:14 | NetAmp | aaaaaaaaahhh |
| 14:14:26 | kolla | kergoth: sure |
| 14:14:30 | NetAmp | still has disorders from it as you may notice from time to time |
| 14:14:54 | NetAmp | riiight... |
| 14:14:56 | NetAmp | anyway |
| 14:15:01 | kolla | kergoth: but there should be a lot more communication and awareness between the OS kernel and the GUI |
| 14:15:11 | scanline | kolla: why? |
| 14:15:13 | NetAmp | Could ANYONE help me out with the IPK?? *pretty please* |
| 14:15:21 | NetAmp | admits to being a Linux newbie :| |
| 14:15:22 | scanline | kolla: give me an example of how that would help |
| 14:15:35 | kolla | scanline: so that the kernel would have a way to reach the user with information |
| 14:15:42 | scanline | kolla: an example |
| 14:15:49 | chouimat | scanline: If you look at the kernel of palmos it's not bad. it's their use of it |
| 14:15:55 | kolla | such as "please insert card blabla in CF slot" |
| 14:16:07 | NetAmp | Uhm OK this discussion seems to be of more importance so I'll just wait :P |
| 14:16:14 | scanline | kolla: why would the kernel need to ask that? the kernel doesn't care what's in the CF slot |
| 14:16:19 | chouimat | NetAmp: ? |
| 14:16:39 | NetAmp | chouimat: I uninstalled a package but it did not remove the files |
| 14:16:47 | NetAmp | chouimat: not all of them at least... |
| 14:16:57 | kergoth | kolla: there are well designed interfaces between user space and kernel space. they are already used to deal with such things. direct does not always mean better |
| 14:17:08 | kolla | scanline: that's true.. but it should nevertheless be able to tell the user |
| 14:17:18 | kergoth | kolla: why? it gains you nothing |
| 14:17:25 | kergoth | kolla: the GUI can find that out via well documented interfaces |
| 14:17:30 | kolla | if some application wants a certain card in the CF slot, it should tell the kernel to notify the user |
| 14:17:50 | NetAmp | ? |
| 14:17:53 | NetAmp | why? |
| 14:18:03 | NetAmp | couldn't it just flash a popup itself? |
| 14:18:04 | scanline | kolla: what your saying is equivalent to saying that a database library should be able to tell the user when it can't find something... that's not the job of the database library, it's the job of whatever app is using the library |
| 14:18:18 | kergoth | scanline: precisely |
| 14:18:23 | kolla | why not.. people build web servers into the linux kernel, what's so wrong about a GUI? :) |
| 14:18:29 | kergoth | kolla: some layers of indirection are necessary to maintain sanity. I said it earlier, i'll say it again. |
| 14:18:41 | kergoth | kolla: they gained performance by doing so. putting the gui in the kernel gains you nothing. |
| 14:18:50 | kergoth | kolla: a web server is a completely different environment than a desktop |
| 14:18:55 | NetAmp | let's stick everything into the kernel :P |
| 14:18:55 | kolla | no it isnt |
| 14:19:07 | NetAmp | or even better put the kernel in the webserver :P |
| 14:19:11 | Twiun | kolla: And even with the webserver in the kernel - it's a risky piece of code |
| 14:19:13 | NetAmp | yay |
| 14:19:13 | kolla | it's fundamentally preciely the same.. a user interface |
| 14:19:31 | kergoth | Twiun: yep, if the web server crashes, it coiuld bring you to a halt |
| 14:19:35 | kergoth | kolla: wrong. |
| 14:19:38 | scanline | kolla: the webserver-in-kernel project gained _no_ extra functionality, only speed |
| 14:19:38 | kolla | Twiun: nevertheless people think it's cool and whatelse :) |
| 14:19:46 | kergoth | kolla: a web server is not a user interface |
| 14:19:47 | chouimat | understands what kolla want |
| 14:19:47 | kolla | scanline: why speed? |
| 14:19:58 | kergoth | kolla: a web server is a tcp server that gives ascii text to clients. |
| 14:19:59 | kergoth | kolla: period. |
| 14:20:05 | chouimat | guys kolla just want Mac OS X on the Z |
| 14:20:10 | kergoth | kolla: a web *browser* is a user interface |
| 14:20:14 | kolla | kergoth: so? |
| 14:20:27 | NetAmp | hah! |
| 14:20:27 | kergoth | kolla: so they're completely different environments, as i said already. |
| 14:20:35 | NetAmp | *lol* Mac OS X on the Z? ;) |
| 14:20:46 | scanline | kolla: it gains speed since a web server spends a lot of time making syscalls, and being in the kernel speeds that up. a GUI has completely different speed bottlenecks |
| 14:21:16 | kolla | chouimat: I want amigaos on a PDA, that's what I want :) |
| 14:21:17 | numatrix | NetAmp: you resolve the ipk issue yet? |
| 14:21:30 | kolla | OSX is just insane to stuff on a PDA :) |
| 14:21:35 | kolla | but I bet it will be done |
| 14:21:39 | NetAmp | numatrix: err no I'm not sure how to find out where it put the files? |
| 14:22:04 | NetAmp | numatrix: Should I just check the original GNUboy package? |
| 14:22:12 | numatrix | NetAmp: try (from a terminal): ipkg files qtopiagnuboy or qtopia-gnuboy or however it is. To find the exact name, just ipkg status|grep -i gnuboy and look for the Packge: line. |
| 14:22:13 | kergoth | chouimat: i still want to try netbsd, just for shits :) |
| 14:22:30 | kolla | and as for "kernel".. I would not want a monolitic kernel linux current linux |
| 14:22:35 | NetAmp | numatrix: ah thanks :) |
| 14:22:38 | chouimat | kergoth: I just need the zaurus docs |
| 14:22:42 | kolla | hm.. s/linux/like |
| 14:22:55 | kergoth | chouimat: I have them, but cant give them to you ;) though they're grossly missing things |
| 14:23:08 | kergoth | chouimat: point me to where i need to go to work on it |
| 14:23:17 | chouimat | kergoth: how to get them? |
| 14:23:29 | chouimat | kergoth: www.netbsd.org |
| 14:23:43 | kolla | the "kernel" would be a set of microkernels and libraries providing the basic fundamental serives a PDA typically needs.. among them the basic GUI |
| 14:23:49 | kolla | services |
| 14:23:57 | kergoth | chouimat: thats too easy :) |
| 14:23:58 | kolla | and og yes.. QNX does this in many ways |
| 14:24:22 | chouimat | kergoth: the zaurus docs are they expensive? |
| 14:24:30 | kolla | but they's also too posix centric for their own good :) |
| 14:24:32 | kergoth | chouimat: only in sanity |
| 14:24:35 | kolla | they're |
| 14:24:36 | kergoth | chouimat: ;) |
| 14:24:40 | cdm | http://qnxzone.com/eQip/ |
| 14:24:41 | chouimat | kergoth: www.netbsd.org/Ports/hpcarm |
| 14:24:47 | kergoth | cdm: hehe |
| 14:24:50 | kergoth | cdm: hows that going, btw? |
| 14:25:00 | chouimat | kergoth: that the port for the ipaq |
| 14:25:13 | cdm | kergoth: going well. My worries are all at the system level still though. |
| 14:25:33 | cdm | kergoth: I perk up now and again as the system spec is debated. |
| 14:25:39 | chouimat | noda how the weather in mtl? |
| 14:25:40 | kergoth | cdm: hehe |
| 14:25:49 | noda | chouimat: Cold. Really cold. |
| 14:25:54 | kolla | and I stil lthink it is evil to just kill off any task launched from a CF card just because you rip out the card |
| 14:25:58 | chouimat | kergoth: how to get the docs? |
| 14:26:13 | chouimat | noda 5C in Quebec :( |
| 14:26:19 | cdm | kolla: it's called demand page loading of binaries. |
| 14:26:21 | kergoth | chouimat: talk to jason. you can only get them under NDA |
| 14:26:23 | paqan | neat, there's an open wireless ap on my apt... |
| 14:26:30 | noda | chouimat: Ha! 4 in Montreal :P |
| 14:26:36 | cdm | chouimat: there really isn't any docs. |
| 14:26:49 | chouimat | cdm: k |
| 14:26:51 | kergoth | hehe |
| 14:26:57 | kolla | at least it should be able to mark an application as "put resident when run", so that one could launch an app from a card, and replace the card to read data into the application from some other card |
| 14:27:16 | kergoth | cdm: I wish sharp would have released actual programming docs, not just the damn service manual |
| 14:27:22 | kergoth | ah well |
| 14:27:24 | kolla | all in all there are so many.. annoyances with running *ix on a PDA |
| 14:27:31 | cdm | kergoth: well, the rest are all in japaneese. ;) |
| 14:27:44 | Twiun | kergoth: likewise - especially for Jeode |
| 14:27:47 | kergoth | kolla: fix the gui. nothing you're bringing up gains anything by running in kernel space |
| 14:28:05 | cdm | kolla: just hack up the memmgr on linux to make it simpler. |
| 14:28:06 | kergoth | cdm: true that. i still have that useless japanese tc35143af doc |
| 14:28:31 | kolla | kergoth: well, you read what I said about "kernel"? |
| 14:29:23 | kolla | the "kernel" would be a set of microkernels and libraries providing the basic fundamental services a PDA typically needs.. among them the basic GUI |
| 14:29:35 | cdm | right, like QNX. ;) |
| 14:29:39 | kolla | right |
| 14:29:40 | chouimat | cdm: hehe |
| 14:29:47 | kolla | hence I added that line about QNX |
| 14:29:48 | kergoth | kolla: thats incorrect terminology |
| 14:29:52 | kergoth | 'kernel' |
| 14:30:07 | chouimat | and some userspace server |
| 14:30:11 | kolla | kergoth: ok then.. "ROM", "kickstart" whatever |
| 14:32:03 | scanline | kolla: if you want a different OS design, feel free to go do it. there's just no benefit to the kind of GUI-kernel integration you're talking about. the kernel shouldn't need to directly communicate with the user |
| 14:32:35 | kolla | scanline: I know you say so, it's not like this is a new discussion :) |
| 14:32:46 | kergoth | i think we've had this one in this very channel before |
| 14:32:51 | kolla | yes we have |
| 14:32:53 | kergoth | :) |
| 14:32:57 | kergoth | same arguments |
| 14:33:00 | kergoth | nothing new, waste of time |
| 14:33:03 | kergoth | heh |
| 14:33:16 | kergoth | okay, i wonder what cmdline options are supported by busybox openvt |
| 14:33:17 | kergoth | checks |
| 14:33:25 | kolla | yap, but you still have to solve the flipping consoles problem :) |
| 14:33:41 | kergoth | add the square in each gui, and use a key combination |
| 14:33:41 | kergoth | ::) |
| 14:33:45 | kolla | and keyboard shortcuts are tedious on the Z |
| 14:33:51 | cdm | scanline: kernel is the wrong word - he means "system". |
| 14:33:51 | kolla | :) |
| 14:34:01 | kolla | yes.. "system" |
| 14:34:07 | kolla | whatever is a "kernel" anyways |
| 14:34:10 | NetAmp | numatrix: Hmm I reinstalled it and IPKG displays the package status |
| 14:34:10 | kolla | "core" |
| 14:34:16 | chouimat | scanline: actually the user doesn't communicate at all with the kernel. |
| 14:34:22 | kolla | "the magic that makes the wizz" |
| 14:34:29 | scanline | chouimat: that's what I'm saying |
| 14:34:30 | NetAmp | numatrix: but nothing when I try `ipkf files qtopiagnuboy` |
| 14:34:50 | NetAmp | numatrix: that's probably why nothing was removed when I uninstalled it the first time? |
| 14:35:06 | warmi | hi |
| 14:35:11 | NetAmp | s/ipkf/ipkg |
| 14:35:14 | NetAmp | hi warmi |
| 14:35:38 | kolla | like on amiga, there is no kernel.. there is basicly exec.library and intuition.library and a bunch of others |
| 14:36:39 | chouimat | kolla: the kickstart is the kernel |
| 14:36:46 | kolla | ? |
| 14:37:01 | kolla | the kickstart is just the data in the ROM |
| 14:37:11 | chouimat | kolla: the amiga rom is the kernel and the bios |
| 14:37:37 | kolla | the amiga ROM is just 512MB worth of libraries and and bootstrapper code :) |
| 14:37:54 | kolla | there is no bios, it's called autoconf |
| 14:37:55 | chouimat | kolla: 512KB |
| 14:38:02 | kolla | ah.. yes.. 512KB :) |
| 14:38:16 | kolla | 512MB would be WindowsXP :) |
| 14:38:18 | chouimat | the QNX kernel is what 8KB? |
| 14:38:37 | kolla | well, exec.library is what... I dont know actually :) |
| 14:39:49 | cdm | chouimat: Depends on what you want to classify as the kernel. |
| 14:39:59 | kolla | let me extract it out from the kickstart.. |
| 14:41:22 | chouimat | cdm: the microkernel itself. the most basic one |
| 14:41:59 | warmi | you guys are trying to run this Amiga emu for the zaurus ? |
| 14:42:29 | kolla | exec.library is 17276 bytes |
| 14:42:40 | cdm | chouimat: yeah, on QNX4 it was about that size. Bigger on QNX6 since some things moved from the proc side to the kernel side. |
| 14:43:02 | kolla | warmi: intend to yes, but preferably on SDL instead of X |
| 14:43:08 | chouimat | cdm: ok was refering on the old Dr.Dobbs artcile :) |
| 14:43:55 | cdm | chouimat: lots of differences in QNX6 that make for the size increase but a functional system is kernel+proc (procnto on QNX6) and they are not much different in size between the versions. |
| 14:44:25 | benmeyer | http://www.imagestation.com/shop/product/sony/?prodID=10440# |
| 14:44:26 | benmeyer | dang |
| 14:45:19 | kolla | BeOS^h^h^h^hPalmOS5? :) |
| 14:45:25 | kolla | for ARM |
| 14:45:30 | kolla | cool |
| 14:45:34 | numatrix | woah. |
| 14:45:46 | numatrix | That is nuts. |
| 14:45:53 | numatrix | Cripes that would be fast. |
| 14:45:58 | kolla | and it's a sony |
| 14:46:23 | numatrix | wireless CF slot too? |
| 14:46:24 | numatrix | Wow. |
| 14:46:38 | numatrix | Or rather, wireless communication slot. Who knows if it's cf. |
| 14:46:46 | benmeyer | mpeg4 video on the fly... |
| 14:46:52 | benmeyer | my my |
| 14:47:16 | kolla | and proper volume button.. good |
| 14:47:18 | chouimat | cdm: the 6.2 NC work quite well on my P200MMX. can I use it on a 486? |
| 14:47:35 | numatrix | By the way, Ben, you wouldn't happen to have played with the new zaurus that was on slashdot recently have you? |
| 14:47:45 | JasonNJ | cough |
| 14:47:51 | benmeyer | cought |
| 14:47:53 | JasonNJ | ahem |
| 14:47:53 | benmeyer | :-D |
| 14:47:55 | JasonNJ | cough |
| 14:47:59 | numatrix | I have such an easy question. :-) |
| 14:48:03 | benmeyer | yes |
| 14:48:06 | benmeyer | that I have |
| 14:48:27 | numatrix | A friend and I were debating the thickness of it based on the photos; I maintained it looked a bit thicker than the 5500 while he said it looked about the same, not much thicker. |
| 14:48:29 | numatrix | Any comments? |
| 14:48:38 | benmeyer | I played with the hardware demo and the version that was shown at the show |
| 14:48:40 | JasonNJ | about the same |
| 14:49:04 | warmi | It does run Linux right ? cause I saw some screenshots of this device running MS Excel |
| 14:49:07 | JasonNJ | its gonna need a lot of tweaks before we take it in the US though. |
| 14:49:10 | numatrix | Wow. That is a sexy piece of work. Have there been any announcements as to US availability? |
| 14:49:18 | JasonNJ | numa: no |
| 14:49:19 | numatrix | warmi: It was running qtopia at 640x480 in the screenshots I saw. |
| 14:49:25 | benmeyer | yup |
| 14:49:33 | numatrix | That's almost ~too~ small. |
| 14:49:38 | JasonNJ | it runs linux yess |
| 14:49:39 | benmeyer | yup to the 640x480 |
| 14:50:25 | JasonNJ | we will likely have something similar to it, but we dont know when. |
| 14:50:29 | numatrix | Somebody was talking in here about trying to make a side trip to Japan on his way to australia to pick one up and try to get it to speak english. |
| 14:50:43 | JasonNJ | theres a lot of things that need to be done to make it acceptable to us customers |
| 14:50:57 | kolla | what new zaurus.. the one without the keyboard? |
| 14:51:01 | numatrix | What are the differences (in general) between the Japanese and US markets? |
| 14:51:07 | numatrix | kolla: no, not the a300, a different one. |
| 14:51:11 | JasonNJ | The C3 |
| 14:51:23 | kolla | oh.. the .. mini laptop-ish one? |
| 14:51:29 | JasonNJ | yep |
| 14:51:38 | numatrix | kolla: except it's about the same size as a 5500... <sighs wistfully> |
| 14:51:39 | warmi | uh .. that looks to me like MS Excell - http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/parts/image_for_link/0,,34924-11147-2-1,00.html |
| 14:51:47 | kolla | well, if I want a mini laptop I'd buy a sony vaio, right? :) |
| 14:51:53 | JasonNJ | warmi: those are screen demos |
| 14:51:58 | JasonNJ | png files |
| 14:52:02 | numatrix | chuckles |
| 14:52:03 | JasonNJ | its not the interface |
| 14:52:08 | numatrix | Thank goodness. |
| 14:52:08 | kolla | numatrix: so is the smallest sony vaio :) |
| 14:52:20 | numatrix | kolla: The picturebooks? They're MUCH bigger than a vaio. |
| 14:52:25 | JasonNJ | they are still working on the OS |
| 14:52:25 | numatrix | Than a zaurus, rather. |
| 14:52:25 | warmi | hehe |
| 14:52:29 | kolla | no, not the picturebooks |
| 14:52:39 | kolla | the smallest vaio with the cam on |
| 14:53:00 | kolla | it was smaller than the newton MP2100 |
| 14:53:14 | kolla | meaning it cannot be much bigger than the zaurus |
| 14:53:23 | benmeyer | what does chmod -ow * do? |
| 14:53:26 | warmi | this new Zaurus is what I was waiting for ... as long as it sells around 400-500$ |
| 14:53:29 | kolla | other-write |
| 14:53:33 | benmeyer | I thought it removed write priv for other? |
| 14:53:34 | benmeyer | yes |
| 14:53:38 | kolla | turns off the last w |
| 14:53:44 | benmeyer | but it removes read for group |
| 14:53:46 | numatrix | kolla: got a link anywhere? |
| 14:53:54 | JasonNJ | warmi: dont count on it |
| 14:54:06 | JasonNJ | its not going to be our cheapeset model |
| 14:54:21 | JasonNJ | those VGA screens are expensive |
| 14:54:21 | numatrix | I don't see how it could be with that crazy display. |
| 14:54:23 | numatrix | yeah. |
| 14:54:26 | JasonNJ | and they draw a LOT of power |
| 14:54:26 | warmi | JasonNJ: well, I don't all the specs but they better be good if they are going above 500$ |
| 14:54:39 | JasonNJ | we might do something that uses a less power hungry screen |
| 14:54:45 | JasonNJ | but the resolution wont be VGA |
| 14:54:59 | JasonNJ | that C3 uses the same battery as a 5500 |
| 14:55:03 | JasonNJ | so do the math |
| 14:55:08 | JasonNJ | on power consumption |
| 14:55:12 | numatrix | Crap, that would suck. |
| 14:55:16 | JasonNJ | yes |
| 14:55:27 | JasonNJ | now you know why the US wont have one for a while |
| 14:55:39 | warmi | true that 640x480 is quite avesome for that kind of a device but , no matter what the specs, Sharp will not sell a lot of these units if the price approaches laptom range :-) |
| 14:56:09 | JasonNJ | the US requirements for a enterprise pda are different from what Sharp Japan sells for the consumer market |
| 14:56:16 | JasonNJ | its a very different market |
| 14:56:29 | kolla | numatrix: seems like it was the picturebook I was thinking of.. the model I saw was 3 years ago |
| 14:56:48 | chouimat | warmi: got an embedded system here whit 800x600 |
| 14:56:55 | numatrix | kolla: Closest thing I can find is this: http://www.hardwarecentral.com/hardwarecentral/reports/1244/1/screenshot862/ |
| 14:57:12 | numatrix | kolla: And I've seen the picturebooks; they ~are~ much bigger than a zaurus. |
| 14:57:38 | JasonNJ | the C3 is not that big |
| 14:57:44 | kolla | ok.. this is the one with the camera that you can turn around, right? |
| 14:57:47 | JasonNJ | its about the size of the original zaurus |
| 14:57:51 | JasonNJ | maybe a little smaller |
| 14:58:01 | kolla | C3? |
| 14:58:03 | JasonNJ | a small HPC |
| 14:58:15 | kolla | journada thingy? |
| 14:58:27 | kolla | or ix86? |
| 14:58:27 | numatrix | kolla: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,105575,00.asp |
| 14:58:32 | JasonNJ | ix86? |
| 14:58:32 | JasonNJ | <numatri |
| 14:58:41 | JasonNJ | http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/2401.html |
| 14:58:43 | JasonNJ | The C3 |
| 14:59:01 | numatrix | thanks Jason; much better story. |
| 14:59:22 | kolla | oh.. sharp C3 |
| 14:59:40 | kolla | HPC.. nothing to do with HP .. heh |
| 14:59:48 | JasonNJ | right |
| 14:59:52 | kolla | needs his pills |
| 14:59:57 | JasonNJ | about the size of a old style WinCE HPC 2.0 |
| 15:01:37 | numatrix | is away: I'm not here. |
| 15:02:06 | kolla | benmeyer: got any specs.. like.. what slots/buttons/knobs there are? :) |
| 15:03:41 | kolla | anyone running opie on a desktop PC? :) |
| 15:04:03 | JasonNJ | kolla: has an SD and CF |
| 15:04:18 | kolla | JasonNJ: ok |
| 15:05:03 | kolla | ah.. I see a volume wheel |
| 15:05:14 | chouimat | JasonNJ: when will you receive your teddy bear? |
| 15:05:30 | kolla | something that looks like it anyways |
| 15:06:58 | JasonNJ | chou: dunno |
| 15:07:02 | JasonNJ | they said 4-6 weeks |
| 15:07:07 | BigBoss | i want a teddy bear too |
| 15:12:02 | chouimat | hehehe now I know why Pepsi chose Britney Spears as spokeperson |
| 15:12:58 | chouimat | damn! that doesn't translate well in english :( |
| 15:14:48 | BigBoss | why not? |
| 15:15:10 | BigBoss | I'd choose her to be my spokesperson too - well maybe not have her talk, just stand with the software :) |
| 15:16:12 | chouimat | BigBoss: she;s like the product. She's fresh but in the end that bullshit |
| 15:16:34 | chouimat | BigBoss: pepsi |
| 15:17:38 | BigBoss | she is really amazingly stupid |
| 15:18:14 | chouimat | BigBoss: as my brother said once laid you don't care if she's stupid |
| 15:18:33 | BigBoss | yes, she is pleasing to the eye :) |
| 15:18:33 | chouimat | it's after you care :) |
| 15:19:00 | warmi | well, in the eyes of many people she would qualify as much smarter than all of us - at least as far as financial side is concerned :-) |
| 15:19:20 | BigBoss | no arguments there |
| 15:19:30 | BigBoss | however she got there, she did a good job of it |
| 15:19:40 | chouimat | warmi: hey! prefabricated singer don't score high in my opinion |
| 15:20:10 | scanline | kolla: trolltech has a Qtopia demo disk for desktops |
| 15:20:15 | BigBoss | she isn't as bad as some of them, she started out young, won on star search, worked on the mickey mouse club - she really worked pretty hard |
| 15:20:25 | kolla | scanline: yes, tried it |
| 15:20:47 | chouimat | BigBoss: I prefer Shakira ;) |
| 15:21:05 | chouimat | BigBoss: not for the song :) |
| 15:21:12 | kergoth | chouimat: agreed |
| 15:21:54 | warmi | chouimat: to her credit , she does not attempt to prove that she has a lot to contribute to humanity as far as intelligence and related values are concerned ( unlike some other 'stars' ) |
| 15:22:11 | chouimat | warmi: which one? |
| 15:22:12 | warmi | but yeah, she is a bad singer :-) |
| 15:22:47 | chouimat | is waiting for the next Iron Maiden album |
| 15:22:57 | warmi | chouimat: many ... Barbara Streisand , Julia Roberts and on the right side this guy who calls himself "the rock" |
| 15:23:27 | chouimat | warmi: no. which one you speak of |
| 15:23:45 | BigBoss | yea, Shakira has it going on, hate her songs, but mmmm |
| 15:23:50 | warmi | I was talking about Spears |
| 15:24:22 | BigBoss | warmi: oh god yes - can't "stars" just shut up and enjoy their money? Nothing like Justin Timberlake going on about Ecology |
| 15:24:22 | Guest | Both are fine |
| 15:24:30 | chouimat | BigBoss: but I love her video :) |
| 15:24:38 | warmi | hehehe |
| 15:24:59 | tux_mike | hey warmi |
| 15:25:02 | BigBoss | and Streisand quoting "shakespear" and doesn't know enough that it isn't really him |
| 15:25:05 | warmi | hi tux_mike |
| 15:25:07 | BigBoss | sorry for typos |
| 15:25:13 | BigBoss | oh well, enough pop talk |
| 15:25:23 | tux_mike | warmi: any news? |
| 15:25:23 | warmi | BigBoss: yeah, that was pathetic |
| 15:26:41 | chouimat | BigBoss: hehe. I rmember the 99 Iron Maiden tour. when Bruce said to us that they didn't have any album to support on that tour beside the video game. the tour was just for the fun of doing one |
| 15:27:23 | BigBoss | that's cool :) |
| 15:27:30 | BigBoss | so bruce is back with IM now? |
| 15:27:36 | BigBoss | I lost track years ago |
| 15:27:41 | chouimat | BigBoss: yup since 1999 |
| 15:27:52 | warmi | How old are these guys , like in the 50s now ? |
| 15:28:02 | tux_mike | warmi: i got a new cell, one that works :) |
| 15:28:10 | BigBoss | warmi: they got to be around there |
| 15:28:10 | Napta | will be back with xchat 1.8.10 brb. |
| 15:28:26 | chouimat | warmi: Bruce is 44 |
| 15:28:43 | BigBoss | i saw some stuff with the guys from motly crue last night. tommy lee still looks pretty good, but vince neil was fat and loosing his hair and trying to be all cool witha couple women on his arms |
| 15:29:10 | BigBoss | aren't the rolling stones like pushing 70 or something now? |
| 15:29:19 | chouimat | BigBoss: I have seen the new show of Dio with Voivod in opening |
| 15:29:39 | BigBoss | how is dio doing? i love his voice |
| 15:29:56 | chouimat | BigBoss: great for a 60+ |
| 15:29:59 | BigBoss | his work on the first 2 or 3 rainbow albums was great, and his first few solo albums and the first couple with black sabbath |
| 15:30:04 | BigBoss | holy crap - he is over 60 now? |
| 15:30:13 | warmi | BigBoss: I think Jagger is 60 something |
| 15:30:36 | warmi | chouimat: : I just recently listened to Iron Maiden older stuff |
| 15:30:37 | chouimat | BigBoss: I beginned in a band in 57 (maybe he was 10) |
| 15:30:52 | chouimat | BigBoss: /s/I/he |
| 15:30:57 | warmi | I used to know song names etc but I forgot most of it |
| 15:31:14 | BigBoss | "run to the hills" is the IM song that sticks out in my mind |
| 15:31:22 | BigBoss | that bass player could PLAY |
| 15:31:39 | warmi | I think I listened to that long piece "Hallowed in .." or something like that |
| 15:31:40 | chouimat | the troopers with 3 guitars (live) |
| 15:31:52 | chouimat | warmi: Hallowed be thy name |
| 15:31:56 | warmi | yeah |
| 15:32:33 | BigBoss | bruce has done some great tracks with Arjen |
| 15:32:53 | warmi | I used to listen to them in 80s but then , around 1986 I "switched" to Metallica |
| 15:33:18 | chouimat | BigBoss: yes. the only one I have it's the one on migrator |
| 15:33:23 | BigBoss | http://www.palm.com/products/handhelds/zire/ |
| 15:33:28 | BigBoss | that is a nice looking little device |
| 15:33:50 | BigBoss | I think Star One was written for Bruce to sing lead on the whole thing, but then he couldn't do it for some reason |
| 15:34:14 | warmi | 99$ , can't go much lower than that |
| 15:34:16 | chouimat | BigBoss: still a fireball EZ |
| 15:34:28 | chouimat | 16mhz |
| 15:34:40 | BigBoss | fireball works just fine for that OS, it's a lot snappier than the Zaurus because it has to do a lot less |
| 15:34:54 | warmi | chouimat: what do you expect from sub 100 device :-) |
| 15:35:08 | chouimat | BigBoss: my m125 is a 33Mhz fireball Vz |
| 15:35:53 | warmi | chouimat: do you have any experience coding for Palm OS ? |
| 15:35:59 | chouimat | warmi: some |
| 15:36:26 | warmi | they say it is completely different than Zaurus or even PPC |
| 15:36:27 | chouimat | warmi: need to reinstall all my crosscompilation stuff |
| 15:36:35 | chouimat | warmi: yes |
| 15:36:44 | warmi | both of which are not all that different than programming for the desktop machine |
| 15:37:29 | chouimat | warmi: feel more like the old computer of the 80's |
| 15:37:35 | scanline | chouimat: dragonball, not fireball |
| 15:37:48 | chouimat | scanline: sorry :) |
| 15:37:53 | scanline | np |
| 15:38:00 | warmi | hehehe |
| 15:38:10 | chouimat | scanline: but we all understand :) |
| 15:38:27 | warmi | scanline: I see your PicoGui is picking up :-) |
| 15:38:27 | scanline | soldered together a board with one of those from scratch, so he remembers its name :) |
| 15:38:29 | cdm | chouimat: What trouble did it have on your P200? I run it on my P166 test machine all the time. |
| 15:38:39 | warmi | I recently saw some people talking about it on /. |
| 15:38:51 | scanline | warmi: hmm? interesting |
| 15:39:01 | chouimat | cdm: work well. i want to know if it usable on a 486/33 with 8MB ram |
| 15:39:46 | warmi | scanline: well, someone mentioned that his current favourite embedded toolkit is PicoGui - it was part of the thread about this new Zaurus or new Palm - I don't remember |
| 15:40:28 | scanline | warmi: I've been amazed at the amount of mindshare picogui seems to be getting.. the web site has around 600 hits a day |
| 15:40:53 | prpplague | warmi: pg rocks, just needs more developers |
| 15:41:05 | scanline | definitely need more :) |
| 15:41:16 | cdm | chouimat: not as shipped I am afraid. |
| 15:41:21 | cdm | chouimat: only due to the RAM. |
| 15:41:25 | chouimat | cdm ok |
| 15:41:59 | warmi | prpplague: I am sure it will get many |
| 15:42:14 | chouimat | cdm will put openbsd on it. or reinstall dos or OS/2 on it |
| 15:42:22 | scanline | Might get more people interested in PicoGUI after the first release |
| 15:42:52 | warmi | everyone who comes from the GTK camp will definately find PicoGui more approchable and sensible than say Qtopia+ qt |
| 15:42:54 | warmi | everyone who comes from the GTK camp will definately find PicoGui more approchable and sensible than say Qtopia+ qt |
| 15:42:57 | chouimat | scanline: any project of a desktop based on PicoGui? |
| 15:42:59 | warmi | ops |
| 15:43:17 | noda | likes GTK |
| 15:43:20 | scanline | warmi: hehe.. picogui's also good for people that don't want to be locked into one language |
| 15:43:34 | kolla | english? :) |
| 15:43:37 | chouimat | spanks noda for saying obscenity |
| 15:44:15 | warmi | hehe .. and noda also likes Perl |
| 15:44:17 | scanline | chouimat: eventually... right now the drivers don't support acceleration ond desktop viedo cards, and the server modularity would need to be improved |
| 15:44:33 | noda | doesn't like Perl. Love PHP though :) |
| 15:44:34 | scanline | what's wrong with GTK? :) |
| 15:44:35 | BigBoss | what's not to like about Qt? |
| 15:44:42 | BigBoss | :) |
| 15:44:44 | scanline | BigBoss: hehe |
| 15:44:55 | chouimat | kergoth: got your email |
| 15:44:59 | BigBoss | Qt is super productive, at least for us, far more than our original attempts with GTK |
| 15:45:03 | warmi | BigBoss: it is not qt - people who prefer GTK have issues with C++ in general |
| 15:45:22 | noda | warmi: Maybe you're right, that's my reason to prefer GTK. |
| 15:45:23 | noda | loves C |
| 15:45:27 | BigBoss | Ah - ok, that makes sense then |
| 15:45:33 | rikkus | people who have issues with C++ in general probably own slide rules |
| 15:45:40 | BigBoss | it's a different way of thinking and programming |
| 15:45:42 | warmi | hahaha |
| 15:45:54 | noda | GTK/GLIB can be used with C++ and QT can't be used with C, right? |
| 15:45:58 | scanline | BigBoss: well, my main problem with Qt is that it's just like most other GUIs, where there's lots of room for improvement in design. But there are also issues of size, speed, network transparency, and being tied to C++ |
| 15:45:58 | BigBoss | hey, where the hell is my slide rule? |
| 15:46:03 | rikkus | noda: wrong |
| 15:46:11 | warmi | noda: there used to be C bindings for Qt |
| 15:46:12 | noda | Ah. Nice to know :) |
| 15:46:12 | scanline | BigBoss: and UI consistency |
| 15:46:31 | warmi | but these were quite cumbersome to use and , frankly, who would want to use qt that way - it kills all the fun |
| 15:46:46 | rikkus | scanline: you can write Qt code in C |
| 15:46:50 | BigBoss | as a commercial company using Qt, it is mostly a positive experience, we are able to make multi platform apps, sometimes with almost no effort |
| 15:46:51 | noda | That's another of my beefs with QT - it's enormous. |
| 15:46:57 | noda | didn't know that, but it's nice to know :) |
| 15:47:03 | warmi | noda: it does a lot :-) |
| 15:47:21 | rikkus | noda: edit qconfig.h |
| 15:47:22 | BigBoss | Qt as a dll with our apps is about 3mb |
| 15:47:22 | warmi | rikkus: yeah but you will have a hard time doing basic things like deriving custom widgets etc |
| 15:47:26 | rikkus | noda: you can take loads out |
| 15:47:28 | scanline | rikkus: yes, and you can write it on python too.. but as I'd say, it reeks of wrapperism. picogui's approach lets each language's API taylor itself to use that language's special features intuitively |
| 15:47:28 | noda | But definitely if QT didn't come along something else would, because the world needs a multiplatform do-everything thingy :) |
| 15:47:41 | kolla | cdm: how far off is qnx on Z? |
| 15:47:42 | rikkus | scanline: what's picogui ? |
| 15:47:55 | scanline | rikkus: this GUI project I've been working on... |
| 15:47:58 | cdm | kolla: probably a week's worth of evenings. |
| 15:47:58 | | hmmm... picogui faq is at http://picogui.org/wiki/view/Main/FAQ |
| 15:47:58 | scanline | ibot: picogui faq? |
| 15:48:00 | kolla | rikkus: a gui for pico, the editor :) |
| 15:48:06 | kolla | hides |
| 15:48:08 | rikkus | hehe |
| 15:48:08 | scanline | points to the FAQ |
| 15:48:16 | rikkus | reads the faq |
| 15:48:23 | noda | doesn't like pico. It puts newlines in his /etc/fstab. |
| 15:48:33 | kergoth | noda: i hate that |
| 15:48:46 | kolla | cdm: really? just Two More Weeks[tm]? :) |
| 15:48:58 | scanline | rikkus: specifically the "What's so different about PicoGUI's architecture?" question |
| 15:49:04 | cdm | kolla: depends on "real work". |
| 15:49:08 | noda | When I installed debian I edited /etc/fstab right off with nano, the only editor installed by default. And then it wouldn't boot. |
| 15:49:11 | kolla | alias pico='pico -w' |
| 15:49:18 | kolla | alias pico='/usr/bin/pico -w' |
| 15:49:19 | rikkus | scanline: that's what I'm reading |
| 15:49:20 | kolla | even |
| 15:49:22 | scanline | k |
| 15:49:45 | kolla | cdm: but it's not that far away, that's nice |
| 15:50:39 | noda | scanline: Hey, is that a new website? I seem to remember something with a dark background... |
| 15:50:48 | cdm | kolla: yeah. Mostly trying to deciper shit now for LoCoMo. |
| 15:50:59 | scanline | noda: that's the wiki |
| 15:50:59 | cdm | kolla: it boots and I have support for the CF slot (networking). |
| 15:51:10 | noda | Cool, I like the theme. Simple, clean... |
| 15:51:10 | kolla | what's loco mo' ? :) |
| 15:51:30 | kolla | ok, not the SD then? |
| 15:51:31 | kergoth | cdm: winding your way through lineo's spaghetti code again? ;) |
| 15:51:53 | scanline | wishes cdm good luck |
| 15:51:57 | cdm | kolla: may not ever support SD. |
| 15:52:14 | kolla | ok |
| 15:52:20 | cdm | kolla: I am most concerned with getting the battery charger and touch screen controled. |
| 15:52:22 | noda | scanline: Wow, that theme on the latest screenshot is *beautiful* |
| 15:52:36 | scanline | noda: thanks. I try to be an artist sometimes :) |
| 15:52:41 | noda | likes those transparencies too. |
| 15:53:32 | kergoth | picogui is definately a good looking gui. |
| 15:53:39 | kergoth | just needs apps |
| 15:53:52 | scanline | kergoth: it can look pretty bad too, I just don't take screenshots when that happens :) |
| 15:54:02 | kergoth | scanline: smooth move, there |
| 15:54:04 | kergoth | scanline: :) |
| 15:54:09 | scanline | the theme language rocks though.. only thing that comes close in configurability is E17's theme engine |
| 15:54:23 | noda | Hrm... it's probably in the faq, but picogui has a gui library like gtk, right? |
| 15:54:38 | scanline | kergoth: I think I had a "When good drivers go bad" screenshot in #picogui's topic yesterday :) |
| 15:54:57 | noda | 's gotta try out e17 again :) |
| 15:55:11 | scanline | noda: read the first question... picogui combines the widget kit and rendering backend, so it's like gtk and X and some other things all in the same package |
| 15:55:19 | noda | Gotcha. |
| 15:57:16 | warmi | scanline: man your list of supported languages includes "Waba" ( whatever it is ) but there is no C++ |
| 15:57:17 | warmi | hehe |
| 15:57:22 | scanline | warmi: that's coming |
| 15:57:44 | kergoth | still hasnt actually written anything for picogui |
| 15:57:46 | scanline | warmi: the guy who was planning on adding a C++ client got sucked into a black hole at HP I think, and I haven't had time |
| 15:57:46 | kergoth | = slacker |
| 15:58:04 | scanline | kergoth: ha, you have a job and OZ to keep you busy :) |
| 15:58:05 | warmi | oh "waba" is basically a minimalistic Java implementation - interesting |
| 15:58:12 | scanline | is a college student with easy classes |
| 15:58:18 | scanline | warmi: yep |
| 15:58:27 | kergoth | scanline: too much to do, not enough time to do it in |
| 15:58:45 | scanline | warmi: really tiny, though as a consequence uses nonstandard class libraries and leaves out support for some language features |
| 15:59:20 | ciaolinux | everybody: how bad is to leave the battery of the Z on charge for the whole night (sorry for the stupid question)? |
| 15:59:43 | kergoth | ciaolinux: not a problem |
| 15:59:49 | scanline | kergoth: isn't that always the case? |
| 15:59:55 | kergoth | scanline: yep |
| 16:00:02 | warmi | kergoth: yeah .. I haven't touched anything zaurus related for a month - my indian coworker went for extended vacation to India and I am stuck supporting his applications as well |
| 16:00:11 | kergoth | warmi: oh *fun* |
| 16:00:13 | kergoth | heh |
| 16:00:18 | scanline | hehe |
| 16:00:21 | warmi | but I took week off as well - screw it |
| 16:00:27 | kergoth | hah |
| 16:00:29 | ciaolinux | kergoth: how about charging only 1/2 ? (in case i have no time for a full recharge) |
| 16:00:29 | kergoth | nice |
| 16:00:42 | kergoth | warmi: most people lack the guts to do that. care too much about the company |
| 16:00:42 | chouimat | kergoth: did you push new stuff in buildroot? |
| 16:00:43 | kergoth | heh |
| 16:00:56 | warmi | the entire place was run by some dudes who were quite skilled at stalling everything for one week |
| 16:01:01 | kergoth | chouimat: not yet, at work, trying to juggle real work and my own proejcts :) |
| 16:01:10 | chouimat | kergoth: hehe |
| 16:01:18 | scanline | warmi: hehe |
| 16:01:19 | kergoth | chouimat: without my boss knkowing, so i dont get fired |
| 16:01:21 | kergoth | chouimat: :) |
| 16:01:54 | chouimat | kergoth: same here. I have 6 computer currently on in my office |
| 16:02:04 | warmi | kergoth: well, believe or not we have a very peculiar manager to developer ration -- something like 1 to 3 or so |
| 16:02:15 | kergoth | warmi: damn. heh |
| 16:02:18 | warmi | ration=ratio |
| 16:02:34 | warmi | and these guys all make 100+ K per year |
| 16:02:37 | ciaolinux | kergoth? |
| 16:02:41 | kergoth | warmi: sounds like office space. "I have 8 bosses, bob. Yes, 8." |
| 16:02:44 | warmi | I guess we must be making a lot of money around here |
| 16:02:48 | kergoth | ciaolinux: also shouldnt be a problem |
| 16:03:26 | tux_mike | warmi: but not enough to hire new techs? :) |
| 16:03:28 | scanline | ciaolinux: the charger in the Z is smarter than your average NiCd charger, and the batteries are a lot more robust than a NiCd :) |
| 16:03:56 | chouimat | only use NiHM |
| 16:03:56 | ciaolinux | scanline: ok... got it! :-) thanks both |
| 16:04:30 | scanline | pretty much any modern battery you don't have to worry too much about how completely you charge or discharge it.. just how often you do wo |
| 16:04:33 | scanline | s/wo/so/ |
| 16:04:40 | warmi | one of our "higher-ups" spend entire year working "out of temporary home office " in Italy - exploring "market possibilities" there :-) |
| 16:04:47 | warmi | tux_mike: you are right about that |
| 16:04:57 | warmi | tux_mike: yeah ... I know :-) |
| 16:05:13 | kergoth | warmi: 'market possibilities' my ass |
| 16:05:16 | tux_mike | time to drain the battery on my phone |
| 16:05:17 | warmi | holy crap - this irc cgi is sometimes truly weird |
| 16:05:22 | tux_mike | this is gonna take a while |
| 16:05:42 | scanline | warmi: irc cgi? |
| 16:05:45 | warmi | some comments seemingly disapear only to reappear 10 lines later uhh |
| 16:05:52 | kergoth | warmi: hah |
| 16:05:58 | warmi | basically web client to irc |
| 16:06:03 | scanline | yeah.. but why? |
| 16:06:12 | scanline | such a thing just seems wrong |
| 16:06:41 | warmi | |
| 16:06:45 | warmi | cause our corporate firewall won' |
| 16:06:47 | tux_mike | scanline: strict firewal rules |
| 16:06:54 | warmi | twon't let 6xxx ports thru |
| 16:06:57 | scanline | ah, that sucks |
| 16:07:01 | warmi | cause our corporate firewall won't let 6xxx ports thru |
| 16:07:07 | scanline | you could tunnel ssh through http :) |
| 16:07:25 | warmi | |
| 16:07:28 | warmi | scanline: irc- cgi client |
| 16:08:19 | kergoth | just ssh's into his box at home and runs irssi |
| 16:08:38 | tux_mike | warmi: you need a box to ssh into on port 23? |
| 16:08:51 | warmi | I have ssh running on my home box |
| 16:09:01 | warmi | I just don't like using cmd irc clients :-) |
| 16:09:11 | | new zaurus is http://world.altavista.com/urltrurl?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobilenews.ne.jp%2Fnews%2F2002%2F10%2F01%2Fceatec%2F01sharp.html&lp=ja_en&tt=url or http://www.sharp.co.jp/corporate/event/ceatec2002/images/photo_big_07.jpg or FASTER page at http://zaurus.kruss.com/files/zaurus2003/ or http://mobile1.mobilenews.ne.jp/news/2002/10/01/ceatec/01.jpg or http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/2401.html |
| 16:09:11 | nishi | ibot new zaurus |
| 16:09:46 | warmi | scanline: you ported gnuboy to run off of PicoGui framebuffer ? |
| 16:10:04 | scanline | warmi: it's via SDL |
| 16:10:17 | warmi | how fast does it run on the ZAurus ? |
| 16:10:23 | scanline | warmi: full speed |
| 16:10:33 | scanline | warmi: everything I've tried so far has been nice and fast |
| 16:10:54 | tux_mike | i need more food |
| 16:10:55 | tux_mike | brvb |
| 16:10:55 | scanline | so far that's only gnuboy and scummvm, but still :) |
| 16:11:39 | warmi | ok |
| 16:12:31 | kergoth | stupid c quesiton, how to i break out not just of the current block, but out to a farther block? label the block in question? |
| 16:12:50 | chouimat | kergoth: lonjump |
| 16:13:08 | kergoth | chouimat: ah |
| 16:13:14 | kergoth | chouimat: thanks |
| 16:14:36 | [DrEvil] | growls at his Z |
| 16:16:23 | [DrEvil] | I'm just going to blame kergoth |
| 16:17:14 | scanline | kergoth: longjump is a really nasty way to do it... less nasty way is to use goto. there isn't really a clean way to do it |
| 16:17:29 | scanline | kergoth: if possible, move the block you need to break out of into a separate function and use return |
| 16:17:30 | kergoth | scanline: that sucks. |
| 16:17:32 | kergoth | hm |
| 16:17:49 | kergoth | scanline: yeah, there are ways around it, but it annoys me that you cant break out of an arbitrary number of blocks |
| 16:17:52 | kergoth | scanline: oh well |
| 16:17:58 | scanline | yeah.. best option really is goto |
| 16:18:13 | scanline | it's nasty, but there are some situations where there's nothing better |
| 16:18:17 | chouimat | scanline: but in some case goto don't work well |
| 16:18:19 | kergoth | scanline: such as in error handling |
| 16:18:39 | scanline | kergoth: in some cases |
| 16:18:44 | kergoth | scanline: goto is great in things like ensuring cleanup on failout |
| 16:18:50 | scanline | nods |
| 16:18:54 | kergoth | scanline: i.e. malloc this, malloc that ... cleanup_1: cleanup_2: |
| 16:18:56 | kergoth | blah |
| 16:19:19 | scanline | Just goes to show that C is really just a more portable form of assembly :) |
| 16:19:51 | chouimat | kergoth: don't why they don't show goto anymore in C classes |
| 16:20:21 | kergoth | chouimat: dont why? |
| 16:20:23 | kergoth | is confused |
| 16:20:32 | scanline | hmm... I wonder if you can take the address of a goto label :) |
| 16:20:39 | kergoth | hehe |
| 16:20:40 | chouimat | kergoth: add know somewhere :) |
| 16:20:49 | kergoth | chouimat: ah, that makes more sense :) |
| 16:20:53 | kergoth | chouimat: i agree, it has its uses |
| 16:21:31 | kergoth | hugs c's comma operator |
| 16:21:34 | scanline | people should at least be taught about it... like teaching bad words in foreign language classes so you know when someone's insulting you :) |
| 16:21:40 | scanline | kergoth: yes! |
| 16:21:42 | scanline | go comma! |
| 16:21:50 | scanline | hugs ?: too |
| 16:21:52 | kergoth | hehe |
| 16:21:54 | kergoth | while(cmd=argv + 1,cmd++,cmd<argv[argc - 1] && cmd[0] == '-'){ |
| 16:22:02 | kergoth | isnt cmdline option parsing fun |
| 16:22:03 | chouimat | kergoth: they don't even show it in advanced class |
| 16:22:51 | kergoth | shoots himself in the foot and drinks more caffeine |
| 16:22:53 | scanline | for (;h;h--,src=srcline+=srcbit->pitch,dst=dstline+=FB_BPL) { |
| 16:23:19 | scanline | I love how almost everything in C is an expression :) |
| 16:23:43 | chouimat | kergoth: for(i=list->head;i->next !=NULL, i=i->next) |
| 16:23:57 | scanline | ditch the != NULL :P |
| 16:24:29 | chouimat | scanline: I know but I'm not the only one reading the code :) |
| 16:24:39 | scanline | just seem so obvious though... |
| 16:24:56 | scanline | NULL == false, one of the great truths of the universe |
| 16:25:40 | chouimat | scanline: also love to ignore the '\0' in string handling :) |
| 16:26:12 | scanline | heh, I hardly ever use '\0', just use 0... C is plenty capable of converting between int and char for me |
| 16:27:20 | scanline | for (p="Hello";*p && printf("%c ",*p);p++); |
| 16:27:21 | scanline | :) |
| 16:27:39 | JasonNJ | oh my god |
| 16:27:43 | JasonNJ | this rocks |
| 16:27:45 | JasonNJ | http://www.killefiz.de/zaurus/showdetail.php?app=613 |
| 16:27:50 | JasonNJ | Mattel Football for Zaurus!!!! |
| 16:28:00 | JasonNJ | I used to play that for HOURS |
| 16:28:51 | chouimat | scanline: remember of a little assignement about that you take three strings. the second string is a word or expression to search in the first one. the third one is the word or expression to replace the second string with. other students did this in about 100+ line of code |
| 16:29:22 | scanline | chouimat: http://picogui.org/wiki/view/Main/TicTacToe |
| 16:29:26 | chouimat | JasonNJ: I want an intellivison emulator |
| 16:29:34 | JasonNJ | yeah that would be cool |
| 16:29:37 | scanline | thinks about porting stella to the zaurus |
| 16:29:39 | JasonNJ | better yet, COLECO emulator |
| 16:30:02 | JasonNJ | that had the best donkey kong |
| 16:30:12 | chouimat | scanline: I did it in less of 20 lines of c code ( I love pointer ) |
| 16:30:34 | scanline | oh yeah.. can't live without pointers |
| 16:30:38 | scanline | and pointers to pointers |
| 16:30:40 | scanline | and pointers to pointers to pointers |
| 16:33:57 | chouimat | scanline: I also forget after the replacement I must keep the original string :) |
| 16:34:16 | Neo|Work | Sniper: hey |
| 16:34:20 | kergoth | hugs pointers |
| 16:36:34 | chouimat | kergoth: opie still unable to compile? |
| 16:38:15 | scanline | kergoth: last time I tried opie there was a tmake environment variable not set... other people had the same problem? |
| 16:39:17 | | killefiz_ was last seen on #zaurus 32 days, 21 hours, 44 seconds ago, saying: nishi: check the latest kernel traffic at kt.zork.net [Thu Sep 5 20:38:33 2002] |
| 16:39:17 | anselor|work | ibot seen killefiz_ |
| 16:39:22 | | killefiz was last seen on #openzaurus 5 days, 22 hours, 25 minutes and 0 seconds ago, saying: oh - if anyone cares - i have the optimized initrd installed on my Z and it rocks! [Wed Oct 2 19:14:22 2002] |
| 16:39:22 | anselor|work | ibot seen killefiz |
| 16:39:38 | | benmeyer was last seen on #zaurus 1 hours, 45 minutes and 54 seconds ago, saying: but it removes read for group [Tue Oct 8 15:53:44 2002] |
| 16:39:38 | anselor|work | ibot seen benmeyer |
| 16:39:57 | benmeyer | PooOng |
| 16:40:08 | benmeyer | stupid script |
| 16:40:09 | benmeyer | hi |
| 16:40:12 | scanline | hi |
| 16:40:50 | anselor|work | hi |
| 16:41:00 | chouimat | benmeyer: which script |
| 16:41:15 | benmeyer | to say PooOng |
| 16:41:21 | anselor|work | benmeyer: what do you know about http://www.killefiz.de/zaurus/benmeyer.php ? |
| 16:41:38 | benmeyer | What do you want to know? |
| 16:41:45 | benmeyer | I use it to rip ipks from killefiz |
| 16:42:02 | anselor|work | it doesn't seem to contain everything in the zsi database |
| 16:42:03 | benmeyer | killefiz made it for me |
| 16:42:11 | benmeyer | nope, just those 5 or so fields |
| 16:42:21 | anselor|work | no, i mean it doesn't have all of the apps. |
| 16:42:25 | benmeyer | oh? |
| 16:44:12 | anselor|work | zfi updates hourly against every feed i've entered, including the pseudofeed via benmeyer.php |
| 16:44:15 | benmeyer | http://killefiz.de/zaurus/showdetail.php?app=613 |
| 16:44:17 | benmeyer | sweet |
| 16:44:23 | anselor|work | yeah |
| 16:44:38 | anselor|work | that doesn't show up in benmeyer.php |
| 16:45:27 | benmeyer | that is because it is in the que |
| 16:45:44 | benmeyer | try now |
| 16:46:56 | anselor|work | i couldn't find the atari emulator either. |
| 16:47:16 | benmeyer | hmm football is tehre now |
| 16:47:49 | benmeyer | atari doesn't have an ipk I notice |
| 16:47:58 | anselor|work | oh? |
| 16:48:04 | anselor|work | ahh |
| 16:48:05 | anselor|work | ok |
| 16:48:15 | anselor|work | i just happened to check with the 2 cases that don't work. |
| 16:48:55 | anselor|work | another thing maybe you could help with... |
| 16:49:34 | anselor|work | the apps found through the pseudofeed use the ZSI categories which aren't a part of the 'official' ipk categories |
| 16:50:25 | anselor|work | as a result, all apps that were discovered via ZSI show up under 'invalid section' |
| 16:51:17 | anselor|work | suggestions? |
| 16:52:38 | ciaolinux | kingston or viking? which cf works better with z? |
| 16:53:20 | benmeyer | http://zaurus.knightfire.com |
| 16:54:16 | ciaolinux | benmeyer: yes i know that... but i was just wondering wether there are some negative issues about any of them |
| 16:56:20 | benmeyer | hmmm |
| 16:56:23 | benmeyer | not sure |
| 16:57:06 | ciaolinux | benmeyer: do you have anyone to suggest (not too expansive)? |
| 16:57:35 | benmeyer | no recomendations |
| 16:57:53 | benmeyer | they all seem to work for me |
| 16:58:00 | benmeyer | I just follow that list |
| 16:58:17 | ciaolinux | benmeyer: how about the microdrive, would you suggest that? |
| 16:58:25 | benmeyer | too hot |
| 16:58:28 | benmeyer | uses a lot of cpu |
| 16:58:33 | benmeyer | cf exists |
| 16:58:36 | benmeyer | just as big |
| 16:58:41 | ciaolinux | benmeyer: ok |
| 17:01:54 | ciaolinux | Onyx4: hi! I am going to buy the viking cf ... are you still happy about that? |
| 17:03:05 | Onyx4 | oh yeah, it's fun to have that much space |
| 17:03:10 | Onyx4 | I put a bunch of stuff on it heh |
| 17:07:09 | Neo|Work | tries to convince a coder that he should be allowed to do a port |
| 17:07:27 | benmeyer | ports are good |
| 17:09:12 | kolla | why use ports when there are Gates |
| 17:11:47 | kolla | Gates and Windows |
| 17:12:39 | ivan | open the gate to hell, and enjoy |
| 17:12:44 | Neo|Work | it doesn't look too darn good though |
| 17:12:48 | Neo|Work | which sucks |
| 17:13:15 | Neo|Work | programmers pride => code isn't pretty, don't want to show it to anyone type thing |
| 17:14:17 | scanline | Threaten to disassemble it, the disassembly output is probably uglier than his source code :) |
| 17:15:44 | benmeyer | ha |
| 17:15:52 | benmeyer | I love when gpl apps authors use that |
| 17:15:57 | benmeyer | the code is ugly |
| 17:16:17 | benmeyer | then I say back they shouldn't have released it if they didn't want to give up the code |
| 17:16:20 | benmeyer | anoying |
| 17:16:30 | benmeyer | makes me wonder why it wasn't clean to start |
| 17:16:49 | oGMo | if your code is ugly, then you need to work on your coding skills :P |
| 17:17:06 | oGMo | benmeyer: yeah |
| 17:17:46 | oGMo | people need to learn that coding things nicely the _first_time_ is _always_ better, even in the short-run |
| 17:17:56 | benmeyer | yup |
| 17:17:59 | Neo|Work | oGMo: skills aren't always the cause for ugly code |
| 17:18:17 | Neo|Work | Eligo is pretty darn ugly for reasons like: lack of planning, short amount of time for development... etc |
| 17:18:26 | JasonNJ | yo neo |
| 17:18:37 | BigBoss | i liked eligo |
| 17:18:49 | oGMo | Neo|Work: well there's not much excuse for that either |
| 17:18:58 | oGMo | what is eligo? |
| 17:19:03 | numatrix | oGMo: yes, yes there is in the real world. |
| 17:19:04 | numatrix | is back (gone 02:17:26) |
| 17:19:08 | JasonNJ | ogmo: neo's first Z game |
| 17:19:14 | oGMo | JasonNJ: ah |
| 17:19:15 | Neo|Work | BigBoss: game works pretty well, but the code just isn't pretty. :P |
| 17:19:25 | oGMo | numatrix: no, there really aren't, especially in the real world |
| 17:19:29 | Neo|Work | oGMo: sure there is. Many developers don't work on stuff full time |
| 17:19:32 | numatrix | oGMo: in a perfect world there isn't, but there are all sorts of unfortunate things that intrude by way of reality |
| 17:19:37 | numatrix | oGMo: tell that to microsoft |
| 17:19:41 | Neo|Work | they don't have time to spend weeks on planning out the aspects of the code in general |
| 17:19:42 | numatrix | ;-) |
| 17:19:50 | Neo|Work | even in commercial development this is the case |
| 17:20:06 | oGMo | _whenever_ i've decided "oh, i just want to get this done, i'll do it quick and dirty" it causes me at least 2x the work |
| 17:20:15 | kolla | so there is a desktop.. http://www.killefiz.de/zaurus/screenshots/00523_0.jpg |
| 17:20:37 | oGMo | i haven't seen evidence that others fare any better, either |
| 17:20:40 | numatrix | oGMo: Always? How unfortunate. Quick and dirty does sometimes work for me. Not always, of course, but it does. |
| 17:20:57 | oGMo | numatrix: besides one-off shellscripts |
| 17:21:01 | oGMo | and that doesn't count |
| 17:21:02 | numatrix | But then again, I'm not a real programmer anyway so that probably doesn't count. |
| 17:21:23 | numatrix | :-) |
| 17:21:38 | benmeyer | kolla: dang |
| 17:21:49 | oGMo | numatrix: if you can actually pull off a large project quick'n'dirty... |
| 17:22:01 | oGMo | go work for ms or something i guess ;) |
| 17:22:02 | benmeyer | What app is that? |
| 17:22:11 | Neo|Work | kolla: what is that screenshot? |
| 17:22:27 | benmeyer | http://killefiz.de/zaurus/showdetail.php?app=523 |
| 17:23:02 | oGMo | kolla: it looks pretty but it's really slow |
| 17:23:36 | Neo|Work | the file browser in the A300 is pretty darn nice |
| 17:23:40 | oGMo | written in java, although i don't think that's the reason for its speed issues, i think it spawns a thread or process for every subdir |
| 17:23:41 | kolla | reminds me of another nice feature in newton OS.. you can define which program shall be running as bakcdrop.. |
| 17:23:43 | Neo|Work | just wish it had a split view for easier moving/copying |
| 17:24:00 | kolla | ponders on wasting some money upgrading his MP2k |
| 17:24:02 | Neo|Work | oGMo: sounds like java to me. :) |
| 17:24:06 | oGMo | Neo|Work: ;) |
| 17:24:45 | djk | Neo|Work: too bad java so slow |
| 17:24:47 | numatrix | Neo|Work: sure enough, it is... Bunch of class files in the source. |
| 17:25:48 | Neo|Work | if I just had infinite time... |
| 17:25:56 | oGMo | well, again, i'm not really sure it's all java's fault that MyPDA is slow |
| 17:26:09 | kolla | yawns... no sleep for what almost 40 hours |
| 17:27:01 | JasonNJ | kolla: why |
| 17:27:03 | Neo|Work | oGMo: well, someone here said java screen updates weren't blazing fast.. |
| 17:27:14 | Twiun | Neo|Work: that could be me ;-) |
| 17:27:35 | oGMo | Neo|Work: hrm |
| 17:27:35 | Twiun | Neo|Work: that slow refreshing is why I'm working on fbawt |
| 17:27:44 | Neo|Work | Twiun: indeed |
| 17:27:51 | oGMo | Twiun: oh you're the one working on fbawt? ;) |
| 17:27:58 | kolla | JasonNJ: no special reason.. just didnt bother go home yesterday.. and the lack of a sofa here at work :) |
| 17:27:59 | oGMo | i saw your post to the list |
| 17:27:59 | Twiun | oGMo: yup |
| 17:28:04 | | fbawt is probably your little pet project - 100% pure java framebuffer awt implementation - screenshots available at http://adorphuye.com/files/fbAWT.*.png |
| 17:28:04 | Twiun | ibot: fbawt |
| 17:28:08 | Twiun | grins |
| 17:28:25 | JasonNJ | twiun: you tried playing with kaffee yet? |
| 17:28:27 | oGMo | how fast is it in pure java though? |
| 17:28:37 | Twiun | oGMo: yeah - still no answers though... can't wait for warwick to wake up on australia |
| 17:28:37 | oGMo | seems like that'd be a real killer |
| 17:28:46 | oGMo | Twiun: hehe |
| 17:29:01 | Twiun | oGMo: I get 1fps using Canvas (QtAWT) and 9fps in fbawt - no special optimisations |
| 17:29:05 | kolla | that urls seems bogus |
| 17:29:09 | Dessimat0r | lo all |
| 17:29:11 | oGMo | another applet i love on my Z, city time |
| 17:29:17 | kolla | unless * is supposed to be a wildcard |
| 17:29:25 | oGMo | tw |
| 17:29:26 | oGMo | er |
| 17:29:27 | Twiun | JasonNJ: Not the gui side, there isn't a workable qt binding for it yet |
| 17:29:29 | oGMo | Twiun: nice |
| 17:29:44 | JasonNJ | twiun: I understand it runs on the framebuffer |
| 17:29:46 | Twiun | kolla: it is ;-) |
| 17:29:52 | oGMo | Twiun, the jeode demos seem pretty fast though |
| 17:29:56 | JasonNJ | they ported it to zaurus |
| 17:30:00 | JasonNJ | a while back |
| 17:30:05 | oGMo | or is it just the widgets that are slow/ |
| 17:30:14 | Twiun | JasonNJ: Where can I get a download of that port though? |
| 17:30:33 | Twiun | oGMo: not sure... in terms of raw pixel pushing, direct to fb is 900% faster |
| 17:30:34 | JasonNJ | main kafee web site, the maintainer did all the work |
| 17:30:37 | JasonNJ | we sent him a Z |
| 17:30:48 | Twiun | JasonNJ: I'll search again, I couldn't find it last time |
| 17:30:56 | oGMo | Twiun: hmm |
| 17:31:12 | Twiun | oGMo: of course, percentagegs are deceptive... 9fps is still slow |
| 17:31:13 | JasonNJ | twiun: email the maintainer, tell him to send you what he has |
| 17:31:19 | chouimat | Neo|Work: ? |
| 17:31:19 | oGMo | Twiun: yeah |
| 17:31:21 | Neo|Work | anyone else pirating commercial zaurus software here? |
| 17:31:27 | oGMo | and it might not be a linear difference |
| 17:31:30 | JasonNJ | http://www.kaffe.org/ |
| 17:31:36 | Twiun | JasonNJ: I'm there |
| 17:31:41 | JasonNJ | http://www.kaffe.org/pipermail/kaffe-announce/2002/000015.html |
| 17:31:43 | ljp_work | I pirate opie apps.. does that count? |
| 17:31:43 | Twiun | Jim pick |
| 17:31:49 | JasonNJ | they ported qte-awt to kaffee |
| 17:32:01 | oGMo | i'm a leet GPL haxor pir4te person |
| 17:32:05 | Twiun | it's qt3 though |
| 17:32:06 | kolla | Twiun: wild card for what then? |
| 17:32:08 | Neo|Work | ljp_work: if they are commercial, yes. ;-) If they are not, you're per definition not pirating. so.. |
| 17:32:12 | Twiun | not Zaurus-qt |
| 17:32:15 | Twiun | grimaces |
| 17:32:19 | oGMo | i've got all the latest GPL software _with_ _source_ |
| 17:32:23 | JasonNJ | backport shouldnt be so hideous |
| 17:32:38 | Neo|Work | chouimat: deevee has admitted / boasted about pirating software, more or less |
| 17:32:38 | Twiun | JasonNJ: Yeah, I've had chayim expressing an interest |
| 17:32:55 | Twiun | JasonNJ: I'm certainly not up to it - too busy with jobs interviews ;-) |
| 17:33:29 | JasonNJ | I wonder if dialogue did any qt 2.3.x work on it |
| 17:33:43 | Twiun | JasonNJ: one good point about fbawt is that it's completely cross platform - no native code save for file access... and it's a drop-in replacement for the native bindings |
| 17:33:45 | chouimat | Neo|Work: I have a question I lost my commercial sdk yesterday in an hdd crash. do you think that emailing trolltech with the order number would do any good? |
| 17:34:07 | Neo|Work | chouimat: of that I have no idea at all. :-)) |
| 17:34:17 | Neo|Work | I'd suggest mailing them whatever information you have though |
| 17:34:41 | chouimat | Neo|Work: I just mail them back the email when I bought it |
| 17:34:53 | Neo|Work | generally a good idea yes |
| 17:35:11 | chouimat | Neo|Work: and now I just wait |
| 17:35:17 | Neo|Work | You'd be surprised for the number of people that don't keep emails around that contains registration codes or other such stuff |
| 17:35:37 | BigBoss | trolltech is pretty supportive, you shouldn't have a problem |
| 17:35:41 | chouimat | Neo|Work: and I have a paper copy of it too |
| 17:35:59 | BigBoss | did TT give out commercial licenses of the Qtopia stuff at the developer conference last year? I can't remember |
| 17:36:06 | chouimat | BigBoss: Ok. |
| 17:36:19 | chouimat | BigBoss: yes but I bough it last month |
| 17:37:24 | BigBoss | they've got you on record then, it won't be a problem |
| 17:37:29 | chouimat | BigBoss: what is their responds time? |
| 17:37:32 | Twiun | screams |
| 17:37:36 | Twiun | Aaaaaaargh! |
| 17:37:47 | Twiun | Just got the answer from Kent@TT... |
| 17:38:06 | Twiun | "No docs for QPF just yet - look at the code" |
| 17:38:17 | Neo|Work | what is QPF? |
| 17:38:26 | chouimat | QPF? |
| 17:38:26 | BigBoss | chouimat: remember they are in norway, but I think that is the same time zone as you. I would expect a day or so |
| 17:38:27 | Twiun | Says he's asking the dev team if the qpf font format should be documented |
| 17:38:34 | Twiun | (if there enough demand) |
| 17:38:46 | Neo|Work | ah, font format |
| 17:38:51 | chouimat | BigBoss: since when Norway is in the EST time zone? |
| 17:39:14 | Twiun | Neo|Work: Yeah, I thought, seeing as Qtopia comes with them, why not use them? |
| 17:39:15 | Neo|Work | it's 20:45 in Norway |
| 17:39:22 | BigBoss | chouimat: I was thinking you were in germany |
| 17:39:43 | chouimat | BigBoss: no just in Quebec City |
| 17:39:43 | kolla | norway is CET |
| 17:40:01 | Twiun | Neo|Work: I'm grateful to Kent for answering... it's just that I expected TT to have docs for this kind of stuff |
| 17:40:30 | benmeyer | what docs are you looking for? |
| 17:40:51 | Twiun | I want to read .qpf fonts without using qpe |
| 17:41:01 | Twiun | so some specs on the qpf font file format |
| 17:41:14 | benmeyer | http://www.zauruszone.com/howtos/ttf_conversion.shtml |
| 17:41:34 | benmeyer | That is what I have |
| 17:41:34 | Twiun | Nah, nah, nah |
| 17:41:46 | Twiun | I know... I need developer docs... like: |
| 17:42:03 | Twiun | .qpf font files have a header with magic 0xAA445 |
| 17:42:08 | Twiun | they have a dir structure |
| 17:42:16 | Twiun | they use fixed-width records... |
| 17:42:18 | Twiun | etc, etc |
| 17:42:42 | Twiun | I can't afford to use native bindings to load these fonts |
| 17:42:45 | benmeyer | did you look at the makeqpf tool? |
| 17:43:13 | Twiun | yeah - they render to a canvas and extract that info in some way using the QManager - which I couldn't find in the docs/source |
| 17:43:43 | benmeyer | www |
| 17:46:27 | Twiun | www? |
| 17:46:44 | Neo|Work | World Wide Wok |
| 17:51:21 | BigBoss | yummy |
| 17:51:42 | Neo|Work | wouldn't mind some good stirfry right now. |
| 17:54:43 | kolla | speaking of www.. any news on the browsers? |
| 17:56:36 | Neo|Work | kolla: ? |
| 18:00:20 | Sniper1 | has anyone every setup ad-hoc modem for wireless networking? |
| 18:01:50 | kolla | Neo|Work: will they become "usable" anytime soon? :) |
| 18:02:14 | kolla | why isnt there stuff like this on zaurus... http://www.fivespeed.com/dashboard/whatsnewin1.5.html |
| 18:02:48 | chouimat | bored |
| 18:04:48 | xtmdster | For one thing that screen looks bigger. |
| 18:05:03 | xtmdster | But it is neat. |
| 18:06:02 | Neo|Work | kolla: which browsers? I must have missed some previous discussion |
| 18:06:34 | kolla | opera, konqueror |
| 18:06:48 | kolla | xtmdster: it is bigger |
| 18:07:11 | kolla | but what I meant was .. useful applications that interact with one another |
| 18:07:14 | chouimat | is bored very bored |
| 18:08:18 | xtmdster | Newtons were out of my price range when they came out. I never got to see one running. |
| 18:08:34 | kolla | xtmdster: ok |
| 18:08:42 | kolla | best PDA there ever was :) |
| 18:09:10 | kolla | preemptive multitasking even.. hilarious how apple had that on their PDA but not on their desktops :) |
| 18:09:27 | xtmdster | Apple's always been a few years ahead in my opinion. |
| 18:09:42 | xtmdster | Hehe. |
| 18:09:44 | kolla | only problem with them is their size.. thiswas before CF and SD/MMC, so they have pcmcia slots.. hence they're big |
| 18:10:03 | kolla | two pcmcia slots on the mp2000/2100 |
| 18:10:13 | kolla | oh, other problem was ofcourse the lack of ram |
| 18:10:57 | kolla | I cant grasp why they dont ship new PDAs with it today or license it out instead of just having it locked up somewhere :P |
| 18:11:15 | xtmdster | The Zaurus could be nearly twice as wide in it would still be comfortable in my palm. |
| 18:12:08 | BigBoss | you must have a lot of experience with wide things in your palm :) |
| 18:12:48 | xtmdster | The only time I ever put it in my shirt pocket it fell out when I bent over to pick something up. That was scary! |
| 18:13:21 | xtmdster | You flatter me, BigBoss ;-P |
| 18:13:23 | chouimat | BigBoss: please don't talk about masturbation, there maybe kids here :) |
| 18:14:10 | Neo|Work | chouimat: he didn't, you did. ;-) |
| 18:14:17 | kolla | newton had a system so that you could "freeze" apps and they would auto "tawn" when you launched them and "freeze" back in when you exit them.. on the Z that shouldnt be a problem.. gzip |
| 18:14:48 | chouimat | Neo|Work: :) |
| 18:15:53 | warmi_away | Neo|Work: how's it going ? any new games in the works ? |
| 18:16:12 | BigBoss | if I was xtmdster I'd be worried that it's falling out of my pocket, it should be firmly and permanantly attached |
| 18:16:13 | kolla | what I miss in the browsers... no way to savfe the page you're on, no way to download links, no way to send content to some other application.. the latter is a general shortcoming |
| 18:16:38 | Neo|Work | warmi_away: good and yes. Two in progress, two more for sure 'soon' |
| 18:17:11 | bipolar | *sigh* |
| 18:17:15 | Neo|Work | ones in progress = Hyperspace Delivery Boy and Dragon Bane 2 |
| 18:17:19 | xtmdster | Not firmly so often anymore, I'm getting old. |
| 18:17:22 | bipolar | is on hold with tech support..... again |
| 18:17:41 | Neo|Work | Motocross Stunt Racer is one of the "for sure", within a few weeks I'd guess |
| 18:17:58 | kolla | xtmdster: http://www.fivespeed.com/dashboard/index.html gives you a hint on how one can operate the newton :) |
| 18:20:39 | xtmdster | I need to get my Zaurus working before I worry too much about why its not like a Newton. |
| 18:20:45 | kolla | notice the envelope icon in the notepad thing.. clicking on it will bring a menu letting you select what to do with the note.. send it as email, fax, print, convert to html, or whatever |
| 18:21:01 | kolla | xtmdster: hehe |
| 18:21:29 | xtmdster | Has anyone got the usb going on RH7.3? |
| 18:21:48 | kolla | sure |
| 18:21:57 | kolla | got usb mouse |
| 18:22:31 | xtmdster | I found the instructions, I just can't try it for maybe an hour or so. |
| 18:22:56 | xtmdster | No. I've got a regular mouse. |
| 18:23:15 | kolla | what usb device are you hooking to it? |
| 18:24:03 | xtmdster | I haven't tried it yet. It works in windows, but I have to unplug the printer and scanner. |
| 18:24:49 | kolla | I got USB on my amiga the other day, kinda cool.. no need to worry about lack of availability of amiga mouse/keyboard anymore :) |
| 18:25:26 | xtmdster | I was amazed at how many uses there still are for an amiga. |
| 18:26:12 | chouimat | the sniper is still on the loose! |
| 18:26:12 | kolla | my main personal desktop is still my a3000 |
| 18:26:23 | BigBoss | My Atari Mega4 ST is sitting on the desk next to me |
| 18:26:40 | kolla | also run amithlon and OS3.9 on the IBM tinkerpad I got here at work |
| 18:27:06 | xtmdster | I worked on a helicopter flight simulator at Kirtland AFB, and on top of a whole row of fancy modern array processors and stuff sat a little ole amiga that controlled it all. |
| 18:27:26 | chouimat | my color computer3 is still next to me and usable through my ATI TV WOnders |
| 18:27:30 | kolla | hehe, cool :) |
| 18:27:41 | kolla | xtmdster: when was this? |
| 18:27:44 | chouimat | kolla amithlon? |
| 18:27:49 | xtmdster | This thing was SO cool. |
| 18:27:57 | xtmdster | About two years ago. |
| 18:29:01 | xtmdster | When you climb inside you would swear it rotates, but from the outside you can see its not possible. It just fools your senses. |
| 18:29:45 | kolla | chouimat: www.amithlon.net - a specialized linux kernel booting from an initrd that contains an optimized amiga emulator.. JIT compiling 68040 emulator.. legacy chipset support tossed out in favour of speed. |
| 18:30:11 | kolla | gives amigaOS direct access to disk controller, PCI bus, serial, USB etc etc |
| 18:30:26 | kolla | the linux kernel being the "hardware abstraction layer" |
| 18:30:37 | kolla | xtmdster: cool |
| 18:30:46 | chouimat | kolla: $$$? |
| 18:30:56 | kolla | chouimat: yes :) |
| 18:31:40 | chouimat | kolla: how much? |
| 18:31:57 | kolla | chouimat: a new release is in the works.. delayed by legal mumbojumbo... will use the linux kernel also for networking and sound card support |
| 18:32:57 | kolla | about CAD 250, but then it also included AmigaOS-XL, an commercial emulator for QNX |
| 18:33:10 | chouimat | k |
| 18:34:20 | Neo|Work | is away: food |
| 18:34:23 | NetNut404_work | see I updated off optimized, and got chewed.. then was told I put a ipq pacage on here.. so then I went to the other feed |
| 18:34:34 | kolla | very nice for making people curious.. I fire up the laptop, get to the grub screen and select AmigaOS3.9.. the screen goes black and a boing ball bounces around, and then tada.. Amiga Workbench :) |
| 18:37:46 | kolla | xtmdster: AFB.. air force base? |
| 18:41:57 | chouimat | what is the thaft-hatley act? |
| 18:42:11 | xtmdster | Yes. Sorry, was smoking a cig... |
| 18:42:20 | benmeyer | http://pictures.bruser.dk/Kat/2002-07-30/P7300708.JPG |
| 18:42:21 | benmeyer | :-D |
| 18:42:42 | benmeyer | http://pictures.bruser.dk/Kat/2002-07-30/P7300706.JPG |
| 18:42:45 | benmeyer | haha |
| 18:42:48 | kolla | female cat |
| 18:43:13 | kolla | worn out, it seems :) |
| 18:43:51 | chouimat | benmeyer: http://ulyx.homeunix.org:12000/bob.jpg |
| 18:44:20 | xtmdster | You can probably find it at thomas.loc.gov chouimat. |
| 18:44:28 | benmeyer | chouimat: you and your cat? |
| 18:44:32 | chouimat | yes |
| 18:44:57 | kolla | which is which? :) |
| 18:45:08 | chouimat | kolla: the cat is Bob |
| 18:45:15 | sig | k, got my site up again finally |
| 18:45:19 | sig | http://sig.ath.cx |
| 18:47:50 | xtmdster | Cute. I'm guessing you've got heaters built into the floor? |
| 18:55:46 | numatrix | Neo|Work: Umm, this is really old now, but I was reading back through the last few weeks worth of logs and I couldn't find anything deevee said about warez; was it on a different channel or was it a while ago? |
| 18:56:03 | numatrix | Just curious, I noticed when you banned him and I was wondering what he had said and couldn't find it. |
| 18:57:28 | Neo|Work | is back (gone 00:23:08) |
| 18:57:32 | xtmdster | Warez are off topic here? ;-P |
| 18:57:45 | warmi | he said that Swedish food sucks .. |
| 18:57:52 | kergoth | hah |
| 18:58:06 | Neo|Work | numatrix: I saw a log file... |
| 18:58:17 | warmi | which would be enough in my book if I were from Sweden :-) |
| 18:58:35 | Neo|Work | I doubt BigBoss wouls make it up, so... |
| 18:58:42 | xtmdster | What do they eat in Sweden? |
| 18:58:57 | kolla | kjöttbullor |
| 18:58:58 | warmi | very smelly fish |
| 18:59:13 | warmi | I read recently about some sort of "dish" which basically consists of rotten fish |
| 18:59:16 | warmi | or something like that |
| 18:59:26 | BigBoss | there are lots of those around the world |
| 18:59:29 | kergoth | thats unpleasant |
| 18:59:32 | kolla | "strömning" isnt it? |
| 18:59:39 | BigBoss | Worschtesher sauce was that originally |
| 18:59:45 | kolla | smörgåsse |
| 18:59:47 | warmi | bigBoss: but they said it was literally rotten and smelled like that |
| 18:59:48 | Harlekin | hi * |
| 18:59:51 | Harlekin | Onyx4: ping |
| 18:59:54 | Harlekin | Onyx4: ping |
| 19:00:13 | kolla | rotten herring :) |
| 19:00:14 | kergoth | heh |
| 19:00:17 | kergoth | hey harlekin :) |
| 19:00:24 | xtmdster | Hmmm. I probably shouldn't have asked. |
| 19:01:17 | xtmdster | I love herring, but rotten? |
| 19:01:18 | Neo|Work | kolla: köttbullar |
| 19:01:31 | kolla | Neo|Work: it was either or :) |
| 19:01:34 | Harlekin | hey kergoth |
| 19:01:36 | Neo|Work | warmi: surströmming, and no I don't eat it and I never had the displeasure of smelling it either |
| 19:01:54 | Neo|Work | kolla: and smörgås (sandwich). |
| 19:02:10 | kolla | I know |
| 19:02:27 | xtmdster | Is that where smorgasbord came from? |
| 19:02:33 | kolla | yes |
| 19:02:43 | chouimat|Away | be back in a couple of hours |
| 19:02:45 | kolla | swenglish :) |
| 19:02:54 | xtmdster | Heh. Ya learn something every day. |
| 19:03:14 | Neo|Work | means sandwich table |
| 19:03:28 | BigBoss | yea, give the Swedes credit for that :) |
| 19:03:32 | xtmdster | That makes sense. |
| 19:03:55 | kolla | lots of english word I dont understand.. like.. sandwich.. why sand, what's a wich? :) |
| 19:04:17 | kolla | not to mention names of cities.. liverpool.. sounds kind violent :) |
| 19:04:28 | Neo|Work | heh |
| 19:04:33 | xtmdster | I dunno, but I thought they were named for a town in England. |
| 19:04:44 | chouimat|Away | kolla: named after Lord Sandwich |
| 19:04:53 | kolla | aha |
| 19:04:59 | kolla | just like Xerox? :) |
| 19:05:26 | BigBoss | and Sirloin |
| 19:06:00 | kolla | but liverpool.. a pool of livers.. heh |
| 19:06:16 | xtmdster | What about leberkase? |
| 19:06:33 | kergoth | looks into #zaurus, sighs, and returns to coding |
| 19:06:36 | xtmdster | That doesn't sound tasty, does it. |
| 19:06:44 | kolla | kergoth: that's the intention ;) |
| 19:07:08 | kolla | xtmdster: german liver cheese? |
| 19:07:16 | xtmdster | Yes. |
| 19:07:27 | kolla | leberkäse |
| 19:07:47 | kolla | probably what we call "leverpostei" |
| 19:07:48 | xtmdster | I dunno how to do umlauts in irc. |
| 19:07:56 | kolla | something I eat every day :) |
| 19:08:00 | kolla | about |
| 19:08:37 | benmeyer | http://david.weekly.org/pictures/?pd=barney |
| 19:08:45 | benmeyer | Will weaton vs barny |
| 19:08:50 | BigBoss | you make cheese from the livers of dead germans? |
| 19:08:52 | xtmdster | Its probably good. But knowing the literal translation makes it nearly impossible to eat. |
| 19:09:44 | Neo|Work | kolla: something I miss here in the US |
| 19:10:02 | Neo|Work | how about blood pudding? :) |
| 19:10:09 | kolla | leverpostei med agurk og majones :) |
| 19:10:12 | BigBoss | oh yea, that's some good stuff - not |
| 19:10:15 | kolla | bloodpudding is yum |
| 19:10:20 | kolla | with sirup on |
| 19:10:29 | kolla | pig blood |
| 19:10:54 | kolla | just to show'em wossy bignoses in the middle east :) |
| 19:11:07 | xtmdster | What about schenken. You eat that too? |
| 19:11:15 | Harlekin | noda: ping |
| 19:11:18 | kolla | what's schenken? |
| 19:11:24 | kolla | "skinke"? |
| 19:11:29 | xtmdster | Snails I shink. |
| 19:11:33 | kolla | aha |
| 19:11:41 | Shayde | hey folks. anyone run the VNCserver that was recently posted to ZSI/ |
| 19:11:43 | xtmdster | Think, that is. |
| 19:11:54 | kolla | yes, tried both snailes, frogs and various sea stuff in France :) |
| 19:11:57 | Shayde | running from the command line it just runs and exits, doesn't show in the ps list, doesn't accept incoming sockets, etc. |
| 19:12:02 | kolla | but it's not normal food around here |
| 19:12:08 | BigBoss | well you can't be Haggis for a filling meal |
| 19:12:14 | rikkus | blood pudding == lovely |
| 19:13:25 | rikkus | we call it black pudding |
| 19:13:46 | Shayde | sees the conversaton has drifted somewhat from Zaurus talk. |
| 19:13:57 | BigBoss | you eat that stuff rikkus? |
| 19:13:58 | kergoth | somewhat? |
| 19:13:58 | kergoth | :) |
| 19:14:03 | kolla | :) |
| 19:14:15 | Shayde | kergoth: well my vnc comment was roundly ignored. :) |
| 19:14:16 | rikkus | BigBoss: yes, love it |
| 19:14:35 | kergoth | hm, there may be a position in house opening up as a support person to support developers using an sdk for one of our products |
| 19:14:38 | kergoth | maybe i can land that |
| 19:14:42 | rikkus | BigBoss: don't have it very often though, once every few years max |
| 19:14:45 | kergoth | that'd be better than talking to idiot half-admins |
| 19:15:55 | Shayde | mmm. idiot half admins. |
| 19:15:59 | Shayde | coughs |
| 19:16:15 | Shayde | ya know |
| 19:16:22 | Shayde | my zaurus is on with 802.11, and has no root password. |
| 19:16:26 | Shayde | considers installing ssh. |
| 19:16:37 | kergoth | get oZ </shameless plug> |
| 19:16:37 | Shayde | (and telnet enabled) |
| 19:16:38 | kergoth | :) |
| 19:16:49 | Shayde | i get oz and Shawn here'll stop supporting me! |
| 19:16:50 | Shayde | wails! |
| 19:16:55 | kergoth | hah |
| 19:17:29 | kergoth | not suprising, you cant support an unknown quantity. |
| 19:17:36 | kergoth | so to speak |
| 19:17:38 | Shayde | sooth. i still want me vnc though :) |
| 19:18:23 | scanline | can't believe there's no VNC client for SDL |
| 19:18:39 | BigBoss | shayde: how can I support you on software that is not finalized and is supposed to be compatible? |
| 19:18:56 | Shayde | but. but. its opensource! its good! its great! we all must embrace it now! |
| 19:18:59 | kergoth | BigBoss: thats what i'm saying. opie is an unknown quantity from a support perspective. |
| 19:18:59 | BigBoss | if our stuff isn't working, then something is wrong - correct me if I'm wrong Kergoth, I don't want to mispeak |
| 19:19:07 | kergoth | BigBoss: correct. |
| 19:19:21 | kergoth | BigBoss: but then, not all requests for support involve problems with your products, as you well know ;) |
| 19:19:26 | BigBoss | I get people all over my ass because I say we can't directly support OZ and Opie, but they are supposed to be compatible |
| 19:19:39 | Shayde | BigBoss: you know i'm just yankin yer chain, right? |
| 19:19:49 | kergoth | BigBoss: people like reassurance that they're 'supported', even though it *should* work. |
| 19:19:50 | BigBoss | of course - we let people try to help each other as they will, but there isn't anything we can directly do |
| 19:20:03 | Shayde | is still in Sharp land, so most of this doesn't apply to me. |
| 19:20:18 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:20:23 | BigBoss | I can't make promises I can't keep, and we can't support OZ and Opie, there are no resources for it |
| 19:20:38 | scanline | wishes people would take the GPL's disclaimer more seriously |
| 19:21:02 | kergoth | BigBoss: heh. you'd have to pay someone to spend time just *keeping up* with opie and OZ to know where it stands at any given time. support nightmare, to put it mildly. |
| 19:21:04 | BigBoss | if we have customers using it that can help other customers, then more power to them, I think it's great |
| 19:21:25 | BigBoss | kergoth: exactly. All the slams I get from some folks because of our position is really unfair |
| 19:22:35 | kergoth | well, as with anything else, people tend to only look at an issue from one side, their own. |
| 19:22:38 | Shayde | BigBoss: i do not envy TKC in its position - straddling the world of hte opensource / free everything zealots, and the reality of "We need to pay rent!" - i think you guys rock - the calendar / addressbook updates i have on the Z are a massive improvement over the stock software, and tkcRekall looks to be an amazing product... (though I haven't run it yet) |
| 19:23:21 | BigBoss | Shayde: thanks - we are going to start a massive internal effort next week for the next month doing a whole bunch of enhancements and clean up on some pending items |
| 19:23:39 | Shayde | that'd be great. so i should populate your bug db as much as possible, right? :) |
| 19:23:47 | Shayde | like a search function? :) |
| 19:24:16 | kolla | BigBoss: you're ..eh.. like.. head hocho of theKompany? :) |
| 19:24:34 | numatrix | kolla: So close to like, he might actually be. ;-) |
| 19:24:45 | Shayde | one thing that annoys the bejeezus out of me is QTopias lack of a real menu system. there's no common place to put options dialogs or the like... very frustrating. :( took me ages to find the little [tool] icon in the middle of the Oz 'Today' app, because there's no 'options' standard :( |
| 19:24:47 | BigBoss | Shayde: what we want is a generic search function that we use across all the PIM apps that is consistant and reusable and fast |
| 19:24:53 | kolla | hehe :) |
| 19:24:57 | Shayde | BigBoss: DING! that'd work 8) |
| 19:25:05 | | you are probably the president of TheKompany |
| 19:25:05 | BigBoss | ibot bigboss |
| 19:25:22 | kolla | Shayde: hear hear |
| 19:25:40 | | numatrix: I forgot bigboss |
| 19:25:40 | numatrix | ibot: forget bigboss |
| 19:25:40 | | OK, numatrix. |
| 19:25:40 | numatrix | ibot: bigboss is like the president of TheKompany |
| 19:25:51 | Shayde | was that for my benefit? i know who you are :) |
| 19:26:05 | BigBoss | it was for kolla's benefit |
| 19:26:09 | Shayde | ah. |
| 19:26:19 | numatrix | And I was just being a little smart-aleck with grammar. |
| 19:26:25 | Shayde | heya numa. |
| 19:26:31 | Shayde | hmm. |
| 19:26:33 | numatrix | yo Shayde |
| 19:27:19 | Harlekin | Shayde: QPE design guidelines will come soon |
| 19:27:30 | Harlekin | Shayde: and looks like most apps need to be adapted |
| 19:27:36 | Shayde | *nodnod* |
| 19:27:36 | Harlekin | from what i have seen |
| 19:27:44 | kolla | imagine just grabbing the zaurus, typing down "dinner at 20:00 with Sarah B. at Hotel Bristol" and it would put it into the calendar on it's own, picking the full Sarah's full name and the full address of the hotel from the address book |
| 19:27:59 | oGMo | kolla: imag |
| 19:28:01 | oGMo | er |
| 19:28:10 | oGMo | kolla: imagine just _saying_ it to your Z ;) |
| 19:28:15 | oGMo | that's what _I_ wan |
| 19:28:17 | Harlekin | kolla: hehe, new opie pim apps |
| 19:28:20 | oGMo | +t |
| 19:28:27 | Shayde | i'm very very new to the whole community. i was under the imrpession that QTopia design guidelines were locked in - but it feels more like we're at the beginning of a design cycle, not the end. the other side of my unknowingness is the future of the Zaurus platform. Sharp announced a new Zaurus, right? They gonna keep it going? |
| 19:28:36 | kolla | oGMo: apart from the speak part.. the newton does this |
| 19:28:45 | kergoth | Harlekin: whats the timeline on that.. are the merges done and ready for testing yet? |
| 19:28:52 | Harlekin | kergoth: end novemebr |
| 19:28:53 | numatrix | Shayde: they're keeping it going. |
| 19:28:56 | kolla | it recognises data for what it is, and is able to string up refereances on its own |
| 19:29:00 | Harlekin | kergoth: for featuriti |
| 19:29:00 | Harlekin | s |
| 19:29:08 | oGMo | kolla: well as for the rest, it's fairly trivial to write a lot of filters to take care of that |
| 19:29:27 | kergoth | Harlekin: i mean, when will it be the to point where we should build it from cvs to test it and write bug reports :) |
| 19:29:29 | oGMo | that's neat though |
| 19:29:30 | numatrix | kergoth: are the opie compile errors in the buildroot something Harlekin knows about or should know about? |
| 19:29:31 | kolla | oGMo: sure.. yet noone is bothering :) |
| 19:29:39 | Shayde | numatrix: *nod* they need to break into some huge market - like write apps for a trucking industry or something for the durned thing. |
| 19:29:45 | Harlekin | kolla: november |
| 19:29:48 | kergoth | numatrix: stefan committed ocheckitem, so pim/todo shoudl compile now |
| 19:29:53 | Shayde | i wouldn't mind something like a USB port or an internal 802.11 card though. |
| 19:29:55 | kolla | I also miss the ability to write all over the screen |
| 19:29:58 | numatrix | kergoth: Excellent, I'll give it another whirl. |
| 19:30:06 | oGMo | kolla: probably because the effort involved for saving a couple clicks isn't worth the novelty |
| 19:30:16 | Harlekin | Shayde: kaii |
| 19:30:22 | Shayde | gezundheit. |
| 19:30:23 | Shayde | :) |
| 19:30:25 | kolla | how do one know if one havent tried? :) |
| 19:30:26 | kergoth | mm kaii |
| 19:30:27 | kergoth | i want one |
| 19:30:35 | Shayde | isnt' that the new ugly handheld? |
| 19:30:38 | Shayde | runs qtopia? |
| 19:30:43 | hash | yup |
| 19:30:52 | Shayde | *nodndonod* haven't heard anything beyond seeing it on /. |
| 19:31:02 | prpplague | kergoth: i'm not sure i want to get over into sh series |
| 19:31:03 | kolla | oGMo: my experience is that it is worth it.. |
| 19:31:04 | Shayde | it looked butt gly. |
| 19:31:06 | numatrix | Shayde: Ugly?! What? |
| 19:31:08 | Harlekin | Shayde: yes |
| 19:31:08 | Shayde | butt ugly rather. |
| 19:31:08 | BigBoss | the Kaii is pretty nice |
| 19:31:10 | numatrix | It looked excellent. |
| 19:31:10 | oGMo | kolla: doesn't matter, it's about perception... you could do it, but it doesn't seem like a whole lot of gain, although it'd be neat... and you'd have to interface with all those apps |
| 19:31:13 | Harlekin | Shayde: but its a usb host |
| 19:31:18 | Shayde | mmm. sb host. |
| 19:31:21 | Shayde | usb. |
| 19:31:21 | numatrix | Oh wait,nevermind |
| 19:31:23 | Harlekin | not just client |
| 19:31:23 | BigBoss | and at least they updated the chip to the Hitachi 200mhz instead of that funky one they were using |
| 19:31:23 | Shayde | eyes his keyboard. |
| 19:31:24 | hash | right... usbhost |
| 19:31:26 | numatrix | Shayde: sorry, got mixed up. |
| 19:31:27 | kergoth | prpplague: hehe. nothing like opening up a whole nother can of worms, eh |
| 19:31:37 | oGMo | kolla: if it's really cool and you want it, go write it... if it's cool and saves time everyone will use it ;) |
| 19:31:50 | prpplague | kergoth: you said it |
| 19:31:53 | Shayde | well, more handhelds running qtopia a) makes Trolltech happy, b) makes more apps available for us. :) |
| 19:32:14 | scanline | bah |
| 19:32:16 | kolla | oGMo: also, for instance it should be a no brainer to drag a user from opie-irc to the address book |
| 19:32:19 | scanline | diversity is good |
| 19:32:29 | kolla | either via clipboard, ot by context menu |
| 19:32:33 | kolla | or |
| 19:32:38 | Harlekin | there are more interesting pdas coming |
| 19:32:52 | Harlekin | kolla: implement it |
| 19:33:04 | kolla | nah, I'm just a lazy demanding user :) |
| 19:33:11 | Harlekin | i see that |
| 19:33:14 | kolla | :) |
| 19:33:20 | oGMo | kolla: well |
| 19:33:31 | oGMo | kolla: it's my opinion that the whole system needs overhauled |
| 19:33:49 | kolla | Harlekin: just find it odd that noone else seems to be bothered :) |
| 19:34:30 | kolla | Harlekin: btw.. those mp3 files that didnt want to play.. could it be that variable bitstream mp3s dont work? |
| 19:34:31 | oGMo | kolla: i've been busy with work, so i haven't had a chance to work on my project (unity, unity-project.sf.net), but that's what i want to see on the Z and, well, everything else |
| 19:34:46 | kolla | unity? |
| 19:34:57 | Harlekin | kolla: it does |
| 19:35:02 | kolla | Harlekin: ok |
| 19:35:04 | Harlekin | kolla: want to try a new version? |
| 19:35:27 | kolla | Harlekin: nah, running sharp rom and xmms now |
| 19:35:33 | Harlekin | k |
| 19:35:40 | kolla | sharp rom since affix and bluetooth works there |
| 19:35:53 | kolla | and xmms does exactly what I want from a music player |
| 19:35:55 | Harlekin | new one is mainly video work anyway |
| 19:36:01 | oGMo | kolla: basically, no more files, no more apps, just object. That way there's no need to actually do stuff like have an address book or datebook, you just make People or Dates, and have views to show them. Everything can use everything else. |
| 19:36:06 | kolla | ok, never bothered with video |
| 19:36:20 | kolla | oGMo: way to go! |
| 19:36:27 | TheMasterMind1 | This is unintentionally left filled. |
| 19:36:28 | kolla | that's also how newton does it |
| 19:36:31 | TheMasterMind1 | This space is unintentionally left filled. |
| 19:36:46 | Shayde | mm. common database structures. |
| 19:37:00 | kolla | the so called "address book" apps are just frontend to a common object database |
| 19:37:09 | oGMo | Shayde: much better, common object system |
| 19:37:11 | Shayde | course, trick there is if you modifythe database structures, add on apps won't be ablet od o things like "Today" |
| 19:37:32 | oGMo | see, that's not how i mean |
| 19:37:37 | oGMo | you don't touch the storage |
| 19:37:49 | kolla | right |
| 19:37:53 | Shayde | you write a common library for presenting the data in OOP form |
| 19:37:54 | Shayde | ? |
| 19:38:01 | oGMo | you just say "give me this object" or "what object is related to this one in this manner" and you use the object |
| 19:38:10 | Shayde | nods. |
| 19:38:11 | diclophis | z0r |
| 19:38:12 | Shayde | that would work. |
| 19:38:17 | oGMo | Shayde: it's a lot deeper and handles more for you |
| 19:38:20 | Shayde | does that with his XMLRPC system :) |
| 19:38:22 | Harlekin | oGMo: hehe |
| 19:38:47 | Shayde | "gimme a person" you don't need to know the strucutre, what tables it came from, or how it was organized. You just get a 'person' object back. |
| 19:38:48 | oGMo | Shayde: you don't touch stuff like protocol or anything like that, and you work with objects in a native-language manner |
| 19:39:03 | oGMo | Shayde: yeah, like that |
| 19:39:11 | Shayde | yah, i wrote the xmlrpc server for my app that way. |
| 19:39:29 | kolla | no filesystem as such either? objects are just organized by physical location and user selected category? so that if you tear out a card, all objects stored on it vanish from the object browser? |
| 19:39:30 | oGMo | neat |
| 19:39:45 | oGMo | unity doesn't use or need xml though, since there's no real reason |
| 19:40:06 | oGMo | kolla: objects are referenced and stored by OID |
| 19:40:09 | Shayde | Hmm. not quite that involved, since my app is vertical (not zaurus - nothing related to zaurus at all... just a way i build an application i needed to write about a year ago) |
| 19:40:15 | kolla | oGMo: OID? |
| 19:40:24 | Twiun | throws the towel in... no qpf fonts for him |
| 19:40:30 | oGMo | kolla: and relations, those are important |
| 19:40:40 | kolla | object ID |
| 19:40:44 | oGMo | kolla: an oid is a 64-bit unique identifier |
| 19:40:47 | Harlekin | oGMo: you just described opies new pim apps |
| 19:40:50 | kolla | ok |
| 19:41:02 | kolla | oGMo: sounds very cool |
| 19:41:15 | oGMo | Harlekin: cool, this is a lot more than a pim, but i'll be glad to see them |
| 19:41:22 | kolla | what about stuff that isnt PIM related? :) |
| 19:41:32 | kolla | like media files :) |
| 19:41:37 | ljp_work | thinks PIM's are overrated |
| 19:41:59 | kolla | ljp: me too, not what I have used my PDAs for :) |
| 19:42:00 | MagiCs | Zaurus is a PDA or a Palm ? |
| 19:42:02 | oGMo | unity is a generic system |
| 19:42:03 | MagiCs | PDA ? |
| 19:42:17 | oGMo | anyway, back to work for me :P |
| 19:42:41 | kolla | loads his CF card full of Jethro Tull and prepares to go home |
| 19:43:03 | kolla | uhm.. with my bluetooth card I can irc from the bus now :) |
| 19:43:26 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 19:47:07 | Shayde | hee. friend of mine is telneted into my zaurus right now remotely, and just found 'sdisp' and put up a 0\/\/N3D BY ADAM! graphic up on my screen :) |
| 19:47:39 | kergoth | hah |
| 19:47:56 | oGMo | sdisp? |
| 19:47:59 | Shayde | www.homeport.org/~shevett/hehe.bmp |
| 19:49:26 | oGMo | what's sdisp supposed to be for |
| 19:49:27 | oGMo | weird |
| 19:50:15 | oGMo | that's funny though :) |
| 19:51:04 | smee|h | bah what's the point of having an SD card if it keeps getting corrupted |
| 19:52:03 | kolla | smee: that's the S part of SD :) |
| 19:52:24 | smee|h | hehe |
| 19:52:32 | kolla | oGMo: sdisp is what qtopia uses to display the splash screen |
| 19:53:03 | benmeyer | sdisp? |
| 19:53:13 | benmeyer | is learning php |
| 19:53:14 | oGMo | kolla: ah |
| 19:53:15 | benmeyer | weee |
| 19:53:28 | benmeyer | put it off for way to long |
| 19:53:33 | kergoth | benmeyer: php is niftyy |
| 19:53:58 | treke|wherever | shouldnt take too long to learn. Its a pretty easy language |
| 19:54:02 | kergoth | indeed |
| 19:54:07 | smee|h | yeah |
| 19:54:40 | kolla | yet another "play around with strings" language :) |
| 19:54:45 | benmeyer | treke|wherever: yup already read through 300 or so pages |
| 19:54:48 | benmeyer | quite like C |
| 19:55:04 | benmeyer | 250 pages was this is what a if statment is gloob |
| 19:55:07 | kolla | a tad more sane than perl |
| 19:55:08 | benmeyer | finally got to web stuff |
| 19:55:19 | treke|wherever | benmeyer: I'd say just read the php.net manual |
| 19:55:22 | kolla | but with plenty of inconsistancy and reduntant functions |
| 19:55:37 | treke|wherever | kolla: sounds about right |
| 19:56:05 | kolla | ofcourse, I'm always about right :) |
| 19:56:08 | kolla | hehe |
| 19:56:10 | benmeyer | treke|wherever: eh, I prefer to have the piece of shredded wood sitting on my desk sense I never remember all of the manual and always have to look stuff up |
| 19:56:27 | treke|wherever | benmeyer: they have a great online function reference online |
| 19:57:10 | treke|wherever | I keep a mozilla smart bookmark set up to search through it |
| 19:59:40 | benmeyer | Tomarrow: PHP and Databases |
| 19:59:43 | benmeyer | see you all thne |
| 20:12:00 | JasonNJ | hey BZ. |
| 20:12:06 | JasonNJ | Nice work busting that loaner :) |
| 20:12:21 | Harlekin | .-) |
| 20:12:25 | Sniper | :-) |
| 20:12:26 | kergoth | hehe |
| 20:12:26 | JasonNJ | BZFlag, the Zaurus Slayer. |
| 20:13:07 | Twiun | How many has he killed then? |
| 20:13:09 | ciaolinux | Sniper: is there going to be a new challange? |
| 20:13:19 | JasonNJ | Twiun: just one so far |
| 20:13:33 | JasonNJ | sokay, I killed it too |
| 20:13:38 | Twiun | Hehe |
| 20:13:50 | JasonNJ | he is now part of the exclusive zaurus killers club |
| 20:15:21 | Twiun | isn't this just saddening? http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/freetype-java/ |
| 20:15:26 | Twiun | cries silently... |
| 20:15:27 | ljp_work | I just about killed Riker's vercel, but I'm too smart for that ;) |
| 20:15:47 | JasonNJ | ljp: dont kill it, it might be a collectors item |
| 20:16:14 | ljp_work | hehe... I'm going to try out the modem and opieirc tonight |
| 20:16:58 | Harlekin | JasonNJ: quite possible that it will be a rare collectors item |
| 20:16:59 | Harlekin | .-) |
| 20:17:08 | JasonNJ | Harlekin: yep |
| 20:17:34 | ljp_work | well, this one looks more like an experiment than a pda |
| 20:17:45 | JasonNJ | science project |
| 20:17:46 | Harlekin | hehe |
| 20:17:46 | BZFlag | JasonNJ: hey. all it needed was the full image set. any hope of me getting another unit to look at performance issues? |
| 20:17:55 | JasonNJ | yeah |
| 20:18:07 | Harlekin | ljp_work: and that where we just introduced that great custom rotation for all apps |
| 20:18:29 | JasonNJ | bz: I am expecting a few more in soon. |
| 20:18:37 | JasonNJ | we had to send yours and mine back. |
| 20:19:09 | | ACTION rampages, killing everyone in sight! |
| 20:19:09 | kergoth | ibot go postal |
| 20:19:19 | | JasonNJ: what? |
| 20:19:19 | JasonNJ | ibot eat coffee cake |
| 20:19:34 | | JasonNJ: what? |
| 20:19:34 | JasonNJ | ibot pay mortgage payments |
| 20:19:36 | | harlekin: i don't know |
| 20:19:36 | Harlekin | ibot: you live in washington dc? |
| 20:19:50 | Sniper | ugh |
| 20:20:04 | | JasonNJ: i'm not following you... |
| 20:20:04 | JasonNJ | ibot kill sniper |
| 20:20:06 | Sniper | isnbt there an easier way to extract my current ROM aside from all the complicated stuff on the howto? |
| 20:20:16 | Shak | is away: Kernel Panic |
| 20:20:20 | Sniper | i want to pull my current ROM and settings and then flash into another Z |
| 20:20:40 | JasonNJ | sniper: backup application |
| 20:20:45 | Harlekin | Sniper: dd |
| 20:20:47 | JasonNJ | do a restore of teh backup file |
| 20:21:03 | Sniper | what about other stuff like installed some additional libraries |
| 20:21:15 | JasonNJ | backup program should handle it |
| 20:21:21 | JasonNJ | at least I know ben's will |
| 20:21:33 | Sniper | ahh - ben's backup program |
| 20:21:50 | Sniper | we should build a utility that makes an image automatically |
| 20:21:58 | JasonNJ | yeah |
| 20:22:18 | Sniper | ever play with norton ghost? |
| 20:22:24 | JasonNJ | thats about #280 on my list |
| 20:22:28 | JasonNJ | yeah |
| 20:22:33 | Sniper | is that hard to do for the Z? |
| 20:22:34 | JasonNJ | ghost is cool |
| 20:23:04 | | JasonNJ: huh? |
| 20:23:04 | JasonNJ | ibot spam nigerians |
| 20:23:09 | TheMasterMind1 | Sniper: sup |
| 20:24:04 | Sniper | mastermind: hey |
| 20:24:29 | TheMasterMind1 | Sniper: im' couting on you to get us openzaurus guys new zaurii when they come out :oD |
| 20:24:50 | kergoth | bah |
| 20:24:52 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: stop begging. |
| 20:25:05 | TheMasterMind1 | kergoth make me |
| 20:25:16 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 20:25:17 | TheMasterMind1 | alright |
| 20:25:17 | Sniper | mastermind: give me a back rub and you'll get a Z |
| 20:25:18 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: i know you're 15, you dont have to act it. |
| 20:25:20 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: heh |
| 20:25:33 | metaverse | hey, is there any decent documentation for the OpenZaurus project other than the platry README/INSTALL files? |
| 20:25:36 | TheMasterMind1 | hah |
| 20:25:43 | TheMasterMind1 | metaverse: not really |
| 20:25:44 | kergoth | metaverse: working on it |
| 20:25:50 | kergoth | metaverse: for now, /j #openzaurus and pester people |
| 20:25:50 | TheMasterMind1 | "working on it" |
| 20:25:55 | metaverse | like how does the flash process work? am I supposed to copy initrd.bin to OSPACK and let it flash the rom? |
| 20:26:00 | kergoth | metaverse: no. |
| 20:26:01 | metaverse | ahh |
| 20:26:06 | TheMasterMind1 | read the FAQ |
| 20:26:07 | JasonNJ | metaverse: you just signed up to do the work, thanks dude |
| 20:26:08 | TheMasterMind1 | its in there |
| 20:26:10 | metaverse | where? |
| 20:26:12 | | somebody said oz faq was http://telia.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/openzaurus/FAQ or http://unc.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/openzaurus/FAQ |
| 20:26:12 | TheMasterMind1 | ibot oz faq |
| 20:26:12 | metaverse | hahah |
| 20:26:15 | metaverse | thanks |
| 20:26:30 | Sniper | sugar make mastermind a shirley temple |
| 20:26:52 | noda | Moo! |
| 20:27:22 | TheMasterMind1 | kergoth did you upgrade the oz feed to latest stuff from buildroot? |
| 20:27:25 | ljp_work | meow |
| 20:27:28 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: yes |
| 20:27:36 | TheMasterMind1 | nice |
| 20:27:38 | JasonNJ | time to go home |
| 20:27:48 | HelicalCynic | Anyone know how to mount the dev-img_1.3 in OZ? I keep getting an error when I try to mount with type cramfs. |
| 20:28:12 | noda | So, is the stuff on the "official" feed relatively stable? :) |
| 20:38:54 | Helical_Cynic | maybe I'll stay connected this time... |
| 20:39:12 | Helical_Cynic | Anyone know how to mount cramfs in openzaurus? |
| 20:44:53 | Helical_Cynic | Should I have a cramfs module in the latest OZ? |
| 20:45:07 | kergoth | Helical_Cynic: its compiled into the kernel. see /proc/filesystems |
| 20:45:39 | Helical_Cynic | kergoth: Thanks. |
| 20:45:44 | Sniper | people love that knights |
| 20:46:47 | Cloudchaser | hiya everyone |
| 20:49:55 | kergoth | hey cloud |
| 20:49:58 | kergoth | hows it going? |
| 20:53:14 | Cloudchaser | i got laid off today |
| 20:53:22 | Wintre | Sucking |
| 20:53:32 | kergoth | Cloudchaser: oh, i'm sorry! that sucks. |
| 20:54:01 | Cloudchaser | yeah sure does, |
| 20:54:12 | Cloudchaser | i'm not surprised |
| 20:54:16 | Cloudchaser | but still its scary |
| 20:54:39 | wazlaf | hi |
| 20:54:42 | kergoth | Cloudchaser: indeed. I hope you find other work soon. |
| 20:54:44 | kergoth | hey wazlaf |
| 20:54:57 | wazlaf | what might be the reason for tkcEditor not to show up on the task bar? |
| 20:55:42 | wazlaf | i am using the beta OZ rom |
| 20:56:11 | wazlaf | when I switch to other apps i can't switch back to tkcEditor and i have to kill it and start it again.. |
| 20:57:32 | Cloudchaser | thanks kergoth |
| 20:57:43 | Cloudchaser | going to go have a couple drinks i think...cya in a bit |
| 20:59:51 | wazlaf | has anyone ever experienced this problem? |
| 21:02:18 | Cloudchaser | probly have too many icons in the taskbar so they all don't show |
| 21:02:50 | Cloudchaser | if you just tap the icon of the app that you want to switch back to, you shoudl be fine |
| 21:03:03 | Cloudchaser | without killing it |
| 21:03:12 | wazlaf | Cloudchaser: there is enough room, if i start another app, the icon gets displayed properly |
| 21:03:23 | Cloudchaser | ok then i don't know |
| 21:03:26 | Harlekin | maybe the style hack hacks some more stuff |
| 21:03:26 | wazlaf | and tapping on the icon does not seem to do anything :( |
| 21:04:09 | wazlaf | Harlekin: they have a task bar icon in the screenshots on their site |
| 21:04:21 | Harlekin | wazlaf: yes, the classic 1.5 |
| 21:04:33 | Harlekin | we use the in many ways fixed 1.6 code |
| 21:04:39 | wazlaf | darn and now I don't even have the source to find out what's wrong .. ;) |
| 21:04:51 | Harlekin | wazlaf: yeah, thats why it will stay like that |
| 21:05:15 | Harlekin | wazlaf: is it the only app? |
| 21:05:26 | wazlaf | Harlekin: yes |
| 21:05:30 | Harlekin | hmm |
| 21:05:34 | Harlekin | other tck apps? |
| 21:05:52 | wazlaf | Harlekin: i also have tkcVideo.. let me try it |
| 21:06:37 | wazlaf | Harlekin: yes - same thing. no icon displayed - the app works fine though |
| 21:06:50 | Harlekin | zuckt mit den schultern |
| 21:07:00 | Harlekin | wazlaf: use op2 and soon opie editor .-) |
| 21:07:11 | Sniper | is it possible to set up a feed server on Windows XP? |
| 21:07:23 | wazlaf | Harlekin: op2 uses up soo much memory and opie editor does not have nifty syntax highlighting ;) |
| 21:07:25 | Harlekin | Sniper: ipkg feed? |
| 21:07:28 | Sniper | yea |
| 21:07:32 | Harlekin | wazlaf: not textedit |
| 21:07:33 | tboc | btw. what's the default root-pw for use with opie-login? |
| 21:07:33 | Harlekin | editor |
| 21:07:43 | Harlekin | wazlaf: ah you have a 5000 |
| 21:07:44 | kergoth | tboc: nothing |
| 21:07:45 | Harlekin | ,) |
| 21:07:48 | wazlaf | Harlekin: ,) |
| 21:07:54 | wazlaf | Harlekin: ok let me try the editor.. |
| 21:08:00 | Harlekin | wazlaf: its not there yet |
| 21:08:02 | tboc | kergoth: that's nice, because it doesn't work |
| 21:08:14 | kergoth | tboc: works flawlessly here. |
| 21:08:23 | wazlaf | Harlekin: is op² ever going to work on the 5000D? |
| 21:08:28 | Harlekin | not sure |
| 21:08:31 | Harlekin | want to try ? |
| 21:08:37 | tboc | kergoth: won't help me i guess =) |
| 21:08:51 | wazlaf | Harlekin: i did try but it consumes too much memory to play back videos |
| 21:09:10 | wazlaf | Harlekin: mp3s work - many critical memory messages are displayed though |
| 21:09:25 | Harlekin | works great on 3630 |
| 21:09:32 | Harlekin | what a difference a bad kernel makes |
| 21:09:42 | wazlaf | Harlekin: is it just the kernel? |
| 21:09:52 | Harlekin | wazlaf: 3630 is 16 mb flash and 32 ram |
| 21:10:12 | Harlekin | wazlaf: Zs is a 2.4.6 |
| 21:10:15 | Harlekin | broken VM |
| 21:10:29 | wazlaf | Harlekin: wow i didn't think it was _that_ broken |
| 21:10:35 | tboc | kergoth: how do i bypass this crap? |
| 21:13:18 | tboc | kergoth: if i choose something else than "root" as user it says "the given password is incorrect" - when using "root" nothing happens |
| 21:16:07 | Sniper | later |
| 21:18:29 | treke|wherever | tboc: remove opie-login |
| 21:19:35 | tboc | treke: i think it's too loate - just rebootet and got a black screen |
| 21:21:23 | TheMasterMind1 | wazlaf: mplayer is nice for mp3s |
| 21:21:27 | tboc | everytime i update something i got some problems - this is annoying |
| 21:21:52 | | ACTION takes two shots to the head and crumples lifeless. |
| 21:21:52 | heya | ibot die |
| 21:22:06 | heya | heya everybody!!! |
| 21:22:14 | | cheese is probably stuff that grows in milk |
| 21:22:14 | heya | ibot cheese |
| 21:22:28 | | the cow that went oink |
| 21:22:28 | heya | ibot sussudiooo? |
| 21:23:47 | tboc | /opt/QtPalmtop/bin/qpe: error while loading shared libraries: /opt/QtPalmtop/bin/qpe: undefined symbol: inst__7ODevice |
| 21:23:59 | kergoth | tboc: upgrade your applets |
| 21:24:15 | tboc | kergoth: which packages? |
| 21:24:24 | kergoth | tboc: I dont know what applets you have installed, you do |
| 21:24:30 | kergoth | tboc: opie-volumeapplet and all the rest |
| 21:24:35 | kergoth | tboc: ipkg info|grep applet |
| 21:24:44 | tboc | ok |
| 21:24:54 | kergoth | tboc: ipkg upgrade `ipkg info|grep applet|grep Package|cut -d: -f1` |
| 21:25:15 | tboc | kergoth: task-opie-applets should do the job? |
| 21:25:24 | tboc | kergoth: k |
| 21:25:27 | tboc | thx |
| 21:25:41 | tboc | "Segmentation fault" *sigh* |
| 21:26:11 | mickeyl | tboc: try install instead of upgrade. same effect, but doesn't segfault (at least for me) |
| 21:26:43 | tboc | mickeyl: ok |
| 21:27:43 | tboc | damn, it complains that opie isn't running ... |
| 21:27:50 | mickeyl | normal |
| 21:27:52 | kergoth | tboc: harmless |
| 21:28:12 | tboc | kergoth: yeah but it doesn't work afterwards |
| 21:28:24 | kergoth | ? |
| 21:28:25 | tboc | if it did i wouldn't complain ;) |
| 21:28:28 | kergoth | 'doesnt work' |
| 21:28:35 | kergoth | give me some real information |
| 21:28:36 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:28:37 | tboc | kergoth: did a ipkg install task-opie-applets |
| 21:28:45 | tboc | kergoth: your cmdline didn't work |
| 21:29:05 | tboc | "Cannot find package Package." =) |
| 21:29:06 | kergoth | okay.. |
| 21:29:10 | kergoth | oh |
| 21:29:11 | kergoth | change it |
| 21:29:13 | kergoth | -f2 |
| 21:29:15 | kergoth | not -f1 |
| 21:29:17 | tboc | k |
| 21:29:17 | kergoth | on the cut line |
| 21:29:18 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:30:27 | tboc | kergoth: got the same error again |
| 21:30:53 | kergoth | tboc: then you didnt upgrade opie-taskbar |
| 21:31:12 | kergoth | tboc: you need to upgrade 1) opie-base, 2) opie-taskbar, 3) all the applets |
| 21:32:41 | tboc | Package opie-base (0.9.1-20021006.2) installed in root is up to date |
| 21:32:56 | Harlekin | kergoth: dont make update feeds , get people to reflash. Sharp is doing it quite right |
| 21:33:08 | tboc | ack |
| 21:33:10 | Harlekin | .-) |
| 21:33:15 | tboc | at least if the feeds are unstable |
| 21:33:24 | tboc | or not compatible |
| 21:33:24 | kergoth | Harlekin: the fact that we're on an old as dirt jffs2 version doesnt help any |
| 21:33:27 | Harlekin | other way need other users .-) |
| 21:33:52 | kergoth | Harlekin: I need to fix a few bugs before releasing a new initrd, thats what i've been working on outside of work, which is why the opie buildsystem isnt done |
| 21:34:16 | kergoth | Harlekin: trying to get a new release out within a couple of days to get people up to date |
| 21:34:37 | tboc | now all i get is the "medium inserted" dialog - but i can't press a button |
| 21:35:28 | tboc | .oO(never touch a running system) |
| 21:36:03 | Harlekin | kergoth: oh, i allays forget the old 2.4.6 also means ancient jffs |
| 21:36:17 | kergoth | Harlekin: yep. ipkg upgrade hangs |
| 21:36:22 | kergoth | Harlekin: while it garbage collects |
| 21:36:26 | kergoth | Harlekin: ugly ugly |
| 21:36:58 | tboc | that's why i liked cramfs - you do a hard reset and everything works again 8) |
| 21:37:37 | kergoth | tboc: well, there's positives and negatives to having writable flash. |
| 21:37:43 | kergoth | tboc: the nature of the beast, so to speak |
| 21:38:06 | kergoth | tboc: remember with cramfs, you wouldnt be able to upgrade anything thats in flash, either |
| 21:38:09 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:38:11 | Harlekin | ah |
| 21:38:12 | Harlekin | .oO(allways do whats on your level) |
| 21:38:12 | Harlekin | .-) |
| 21:38:15 | tboc | hmm, perhaps i should make some dents in the Z for every time i have to reflash it ;) |
| 21:38:17 | wazlaf | gn8 |
| 21:38:45 | tboc | kergoth: of course you could - just supply an entire image along with a flash-program and you're done |
| 21:38:53 | tboc | kergoth: just as sharp does |
| 21:39:14 | Harlekin | kergoth: hmm, hows 2.4.18 doing? |
| 21:39:19 | kergoth | tboc: and you can reflash a jffs2 system just as well as you can reflash a cramfs system |
| 21:39:20 | tboc | kergoth: after package management gets better you can switch to jffs and allow upgrading single packages |
| 21:39:33 | kergoth | tboc: package management isnt the problem |
| 21:39:41 | kergoth | Harlekin: on hold, havent had *any* time for it |
| 21:39:42 | tboc | kergoth: no? |
| 21:40:07 | tboc | kergoth: oh that's why i almost always get problems when installing to SD/CF ... |
| 21:40:08 | Harlekin | kergoth: i ment how much work would a ipaq kernel need? buzzer, touchscreen, apm |
| 21:40:13 | kergoth | tboc: ? |
| 21:40:21 | kergoth | tboc: installing to sd/cf works flawless unless the app needs symlinks |
| 21:40:33 | tboc | "unless" ... i knew it ;) |
| 21:40:36 | kergoth | Harlekin: problem is, sharp hasnt released specs on the most important ASIC in the Z. |
| 21:40:41 | Harlekin | ah |
| 21:40:43 | Harlekin | thats bad |
| 21:40:46 | kergoth | tboc: so switch to ext2 and all will be well |
| 21:40:56 | kergoth | Harlekin: i know. I have the fucking schematics, but i dont have programming info on the chip |
| 21:41:00 | kergoth | Harlekin: pathetic |
| 21:41:05 | tboc | kergoth: i got ext2 on my SD and it doesn't work for some packagesd |
| 21:41:10 | tboc | kergoth: like x11 |
| 21:41:13 | kergoth | Harlekin: so the only info i have is Lineo's hack'd up spaghetti code |
| 21:41:24 | kergoth | tboc: then the packages are flawed. complain to the package maintainer and tell them to read the docs on ipkg. |
| 21:42:09 | kergoth | tboc: the package managemetn system is fine for the most part |
| 21:42:18 | kergoth | tboc: but individual packages often dont do things as they should |
| 21:42:29 | kergoth | tboc: because they didnt read the documentation, or didnt use ipkg-build |
| 21:42:44 | tboc | kergoth: and why didn't the upgrade work for me? |
| 21:43:18 | kergoth | tboc: because opie changed one of its apis without putting proper interdependencies in the ipks |
| 21:43:22 | kergoth | tboc: opie packaging problem |
| 21:43:27 | kergoth | tboc: makes the upgrade path less smooth |
| 21:43:29 | tboc | *grr* |
| 21:43:30 | tboc | =) |
| 21:44:01 | kergoth | tboc: what *should* have been done, is the New opie-base and taskbar Conflict with the applets that use the old api |
| 21:44:31 | kergoth | tboc: and the new versions of the applets Depend on the version of opie-base and taskbar that uses the new api |
| 21:44:35 | tboc | kergoth: ok, how do i get my Z back to work? :) |
| 21:45:09 | kergoth | tboc: at this point, i'd almost recommend ipkg removeing, with -force so it doesnt complain, opie-base, opie-taskbar, and all the applets |
| 21:45:15 | kergoth | tboc: then reinstall the latest versions from the feed |
| 21:45:19 | tboc | after all i think a simple apt-get erm ipkg upgrade should do the job ;) |
| 21:45:20 | kergoth | tboc: oh! |
| 21:45:25 | kergoth | tboc: dont forget about the new libopie! |
| 21:45:44 | kergoth | tboc: you know how much work was inolved in establishing policies in the debian project to ensure that process is smooth? |
| 21:45:47 | kergoth | tboc: the problem is |
| 21:45:56 | kergoth | tboc: there is no ipkg packaging Policy document |
| 21:46:06 | tboc | kergoth: but you have to agree that it works well? |
| 21:46:07 | kergoth | tboc: so theres no policy for people to comply with in their packages |
| 21:46:12 | kergoth | tboc: oh yes, i lovee debian |
| 21:46:16 | kergoth | tboc: i'm using it now |
| 21:46:17 | tboc | me too :) |
| 21:46:17 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:46:22 | tboc | same here |
| 21:46:46 | kergoth | so anyway, i can establish policyi guidelines for OZ, but i cant do much for packages outside my control |
| 21:47:03 | kergoth | the opie side of things, i can influence, but thats not my project |
| 21:47:12 | tboc | ic |
| 21:47:15 | kergoth | so anyway |
| 21:47:30 | kergoth | part of the problem is OZ specifically, and ipkg in general,'s lack of policy |
| 21:47:37 | kergoth | and opie's as well |
| 21:47:41 | tboc | hmm... and if we just switch to another format? (= |
| 21:47:45 | kergoth | because the upgrade process isnt guaranteed to be smooth |
| 21:47:51 | kergoth | well, there isnt a good one |
| 21:47:56 | kergoth | dpkg is too large for embedded |
| 21:47:59 | kergoth | apt particularly |
| 21:48:01 | kergoth | caching the .deb's |
| 21:48:03 | kergoth | and shit |
| 21:48:06 | tboc | yeah, ack |
| 21:48:07 | kergoth | waste of space |
| 21:48:16 | tboc | but you could patch that i guess |
| 21:48:21 | tboc | at least the caching |
| 21:48:25 | noda | begs kergoth to tell him what packages to start with when the stylus stops working. |
| 21:48:34 | kergoth | noda: in general? |
| 21:48:37 | kergoth | noda: um |
| 21:48:40 | kergoth | noda: revert oz-base |
| 21:48:47 | kergoth | noda: i moved our devices from flash into ram |
| 21:48:55 | kergoth | noda: to prevent unnecessary writes to flash due to tty permission changes |
| 21:49:01 | kergoth | noda: problem is, the devices arent owned by a package |
| 21:49:03 | kergoth | noda: they're built in the image |
| 21:49:10 | kergoth | noda: which means its impossible to make the upgrade smooth |
| 21:49:14 | noda | Oh. |
| 21:49:18 | kergoth | noda: short of relesing a new initrd anyway ;) |
| 21:49:23 | noda | I thought everything was a package? |
| 21:49:28 | kergoth | everything but devices |
| 21:49:33 | kergoth | they're created at image creation time |
| 21:49:33 | noda | Oh :) |
| 21:49:37 | scanline | growls... |
| 21:49:39 | kergoth | so that people dont have to be root to produce the image |
| 21:49:39 | scanline | imdct_3dnow.h:247: can't find a register in class `GENERAL_REGS' while reloading `asm' |
| 21:49:42 | noda | What are the chances of devfs in the kernel? |
| 21:49:56 | noda | (wouldn't that solve that problem?) |
| 21:49:57 | kergoth | noda: we can do that, problem is we need a startup script to generate the compatibility symlinks |
| 21:50:03 | kergoth | noda: because devfsd is too much overhead |
| 21:50:13 | noda | Oh, gotcha. |
| 21:50:17 | kergoth | noda: find me that script (maybe steal it from familiar?), and i'll do it. |
| 21:50:21 | kergoth | :) |
| 21:50:36 | noda | lol |
| 21:50:41 | noda | Gotta get my stylus working first :) |
| 21:50:45 | kergoth | well yeah |
| 21:50:46 | kergoth | one step at a time |
| 21:50:47 | kergoth | hey |
| 21:50:49 | kergoth | want to try something? |
| 21:50:57 | kergoth | you're on the latest oz-base right? |
| 21:51:00 | noda | Um... yep |
| 21:51:03 | kergoth | okay |
| 21:51:11 | kergoth | you feeling lucky? |
| 21:51:12 | kergoth | :P |
| 21:51:32 | noda | Um.... actually no, but I wanna know what it is :) |
| 21:51:34 | kergoth | umount /dev/pts; mv /dev/* /boot/var/dev/*; rm -rf /dev; ln -s /var/dev /dev; |
| 21:51:34 | tboc | .oO(need a new paper weight? ;) |
| 21:51:58 | noda | HOLY SHIT, I don't feel NEARLY that lucky :) |
| 21:52:01 | kergoth | s/\/boot\/var\/dev\/*/\/boot\/var\/dev\// |
| 21:52:12 | kergoth | noda: like i said, i moved them into a ramdisk |
| 21:52:15 | kergoth | noda: waht happens is |
| 21:52:15 | noda | What if I copied? Would that work? |
| 21:52:23 | kergoth | noda: devices get created in /boot/var/dev/ on image creation time |
| 21:52:32 | noda | Ah. |
| 21:52:38 | kergoth | noda: then, on bootup, ramdisk is mounted, then thsoe devices get copied into /var/dev/ on the ramdisk |
| 21:52:51 | kergoth | noda: the symlink form /dev/ to /var/dev/ ensures that the devices are always there |
| 21:53:08 | kergoth | noda: if you'l notice, look in /var/dev/ |
| 21:53:12 | kergoth | noda: (without var mounted) |
| 21:53:18 | kergoth | noda: there is a set of basic devices in there |
| 21:53:23 | tboc | hmm, too bad that harlekin already left ... wanted to ask him if there was any progress on the new icons |
| 21:53:26 | noda | kergoth: So essentially you're guiding me through the upgrade process here. |
| 21:53:30 | kergoth | noda: for brinign the system up, but before ramfs /var gets mounted |
| 21:53:45 | kergoth | noda: i'm walking you through the change that couldnt occur through packaging |
| 21:53:47 | kergoth | noda: :) |
| 21:53:52 | noda | Oh boy. |
| 21:53:59 | noda | sees why :) |
| 21:54:12 | kergoth | since the devices arent in a package, moving them couldnt occur via packaging |
| 21:54:14 | kergoth | so here we are |
| 21:54:17 | kergoth | in a shitty ass situation |
| 21:54:18 | kergoth | :) |
| 21:54:21 | noda | Yeah. |
| 21:54:24 | kergoth | hence the need for a new initrd.bin, asap |
| 21:54:26 | noda | Is it possible to *copy* the devices? |
| 21:54:47 | noda | And how the hell is this going to work, it won't be able to write to the disk to make the symlink... |
| 21:54:48 | tboc | kergoth: btw. any idea how long it'll take until the new initrd.bin? =) |
| 21:55:01 | scanline | 1.21 jiggawatts! |
| 21:55:07 | kergoth | noda: well, you'll probably want to wget and force a reinstall of oz-base after moving the devices |
| 21:55:11 | kergoth | noda: to ensure that everything is happy |
| 21:55:22 | kergoth | noda: OH, and hit Y to the question on whether or not to overwrite fstab |
| 21:55:31 | noda | kergoth: Um... do you really think the moving won't permanently break my image? |
| 21:55:46 | kergoth | noda: if you want to copy, cp -a them over |
| 21:55:48 | kergoth | noda: er |
| 21:55:50 | noda | I envision something like this: "ln: /dev/hda1: device not found" |
| 21:55:52 | kergoth | noda: does busybox cp support -a? |
| 21:55:53 | kergoth | hm |
| 21:56:01 | noda | kergoth: Think so. |
| 21:56:10 | kergoth | noda: the devices arent symlinked |
| 21:56:14 | tboc | gn8 |
| 21:56:20 | kergoth | noda: /dev itself is a symlink :) |
| 21:56:29 | kergoth | noda: to /var/dev, where the devices get copied after the ramdisk is mounted |
| 21:56:41 | kergoth | noda: we're following in the footsteps of the way the tuxscreen handles it |
| 21:56:57 | noda | /dev is a symlink? It's not showing up in light blue... |
| 21:57:13 | kergoth | noda: it isnt in yours, because oz-base failed to symlink it because it already existed |
| 21:57:14 | noda | Or /dev WILL be a symlink :P |
| 21:57:16 | noda | Right. |
| 21:57:17 | kergoth | noda: because /dev isnt in a package |
| 21:57:19 | kergoth | yep |
| 21:57:27 | kergoth | noda: which is why we reinstall oz-base after this mess |
| 21:57:30 | kergoth | noda: to make sure it happens |
| 21:57:44 | kergoth | noda: i'm going to see if i can get a new initrd.bin out tonight |
| 21:57:49 | noda | Okay, maybe it'd be a good idea to edit fstab manually, on the off chance that the devices are moved but the symlink can't be made or something? |
| 21:57:59 | noda | Cool :) |
| 21:58:07 | noda | What has to be changed in fstab? :) |
| 21:58:14 | kergoth | fstab removes the /tmp mount, because now /tmp is a symlink into /var, so we only have one ramfs filesystem |
| 21:58:23 | kergoth | one ramfs entry, for /var. thats it for ramfs filesystems |
| 21:58:26 | kergoth | and |
| 21:58:36 | kergoth | mount devpts on /mnt/devpts |
| 21:58:39 | noda | Oh, so do I have to make that symlink too? |
| 21:58:42 | kergoth | the symlinks oz-base puts in shoudl handle it |
| 21:59:11 | kergoth | you have no idea what a bitch ensure upgrading is smooth really is. |
| 21:59:12 | kergoth | :) |
| 21:59:22 | kergoth | particularly when dealing with shit outside the package manager's control |
| 21:59:27 | noda | Well, it's impossible :) |
| 21:59:33 | noda | devpts /mnt/devpts devpts gid=5,mode=620 0 0 |
| 21:59:34 | noda | ramfs /var ramfs defaults 0 0 |
| 21:59:36 | noda | Like that? |
| 21:59:38 | kergoth | bingo |
| 21:59:40 | kergoth | yep |
| 21:59:44 | kergoth | you removed the /tmp entry right? |
| 21:59:47 | noda | Yep |
| 21:59:51 | noda | Okay, now I'm gonna run: |
| 22:00:11 | noda | umount /dev/pts && mv /dev/* /boot/var/dev && rm -rf /dev && ln -s /var/dev /dev |
| 22:00:22 | kergoth | bingo |
| 22:00:26 | kergoth | dont forget to pull down oz-base |
| 22:00:29 | kergoth | so you have the ipk to reinstall it |
| 22:00:32 | kergoth | if you ahvent already |
| 22:00:48 | noda | I wonder... will ssh stay running during all this? Will anything? |
| 22:00:52 | kergoth | yep |
| 22:00:54 | noda | I've got it. |
| 22:00:57 | noda | Okay, well then, here I go. |
| 22:01:01 | kergoth | wahtever ya do, dont restart anything with the devices gone |
| 22:01:02 | kergoth | :) |
| 22:01:06 | kergoth | leave it running and you should be fine |
| 22:01:15 | noda | umount: /dev/pts: Device or resource busy |
| 22:01:19 | noda | lol |
| 22:01:25 | kergoth | ah |
| 22:01:31 | kergoth | noda: you're in embeddedkonsole or ssh |
| 22:01:35 | noda | ssh |
| 22:01:38 | kergoth | noda: both of which allocate a virtual terminal |
| 22:01:39 | noda | Okay, have to do this on the device, got it. |
| 22:01:46 | noda | So kill opie and run there? :) |
| 22:01:50 | kergoth | noda: yep, drop to console. |
| 22:01:56 | noda | OH, I didn't know that - the root isn't a virtual terminal... sweet :) |
| 22:02:18 | kergoth | :) |
| 22:02:23 | kergoth | its the real console |
| 22:02:57 | noda | Okay, plenty of room everywhere, got oz-base_unstable-9c_arm.ipk... looks like I'm set! |
| 22:03:04 | noda | Oh, SHIT, that's the wrong oz-base, isn't it. |
| 22:03:24 | kergoth | holdhehe |
| 22:03:27 | noda | Which oz-base is the one I need? |
| 22:03:38 | kergoth | oz-base is up to 11b, but this one has the change to use a bootup menu on startup |
| 22:04:18 | Neo|Work | is away: I'm busy |
| 22:04:37 | Neo|Work | is back (gone 00:00:01) |
| 22:04:43 | | i think oz is see openzaurus or http://OpenZaurus.SourceForge.net/ |
| 22:04:43 | noda | ibot oz |
| 22:04:48 | | it has been said that oz feed is http://openzaurus.sf.net/feeds/unstable/ |
| 22:04:48 | noda | ibot oz feed |
| 22:04:51 | noda | Ah :) |
| 22:04:57 | | noda: no problem |
| 22:04:57 | noda | ibot: Thanks! |
| 22:04:59 | kergoth | its called unstable for a reason |
| 22:05:01 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:05:03 | kergoth | i need a testing feed |
| 22:05:24 | noda | kergoth: Ack, you hanked the oz-base from the feed :P |
| 22:05:28 | kergoth | oh |
| 22:05:29 | noda | kergoth: Could I please have it? :) |
| 22:05:29 | kergoth | oops |
| 22:05:32 | kergoth | sure |
| 22:05:32 | kergoth | hold on |
| 22:05:59 | kergoth | hrm, lets see which version you need |
| 22:06:04 | kergoth | before the boot menu chagnes,, thats for sure |
| 22:06:17 | noda | boot menu? Never used a boot menu before :) |
| 22:06:34 | kergoth | noda: i know, its new |
| 22:06:40 | noda | Cool :) |
| 22:06:42 | kergoth | noda: bootup menu to select console/opie/picogui/whatever |
| 22:06:45 | kergoth | it works |
| 22:06:46 | kergoth | but |
| 22:06:48 | noda | Neat! |
| 22:06:49 | kergoth | opie doesnt handle vts properly |
| 22:06:51 | kergoth | so |
| 22:06:56 | kergoth | opie-login spawns off into nowhere land |
| 22:07:00 | kergoth | i'm working on it |
| 22:07:01 | scanline | kergoth: neat :) |
| 22:07:02 | noda | Heh |
| 22:07:06 | kergoth | scanline: hehe |
| 22:07:14 | kergoth | scanline: i have no idea where it goes |
| 22:07:17 | kergoth | scanline: but its not hte current vt |
| 22:07:20 | kergoth | scanline: whichi s odd |
| 22:07:22 | noda | Is opie-login necessary? I don't have it installed. |
| 22:07:31 | kergoth | not required |
| 22:07:34 | kergoth | it jsut lets you login as a user |
| 22:07:35 | noda | Great. |
| 22:07:37 | mickeyl | good night all |
| 22:07:38 | kergoth | mostly for safety for end users |
| 22:07:40 | mickeyl | is leaving for a while... |
| 22:07:47 | kergoth | to protect from accidentally rm -rf'ing /lib or soemthing |
| 22:08:06 | noda | Yep |
| 22:08:18 | noda | has rm -rf'd /bin before. |
| 22:08:29 | noda | kergoth: Found the oz-base yet? :) |
| 22:08:52 | kergoth | noda: reverting to the version before the bootmenu stuffs |
| 22:08:59 | noda | kergoth: Cool :) |
| 22:09:54 | kergoth | woot, found it |
| 22:11:04 | kergoth | noda: grab it off the feed. |
| 22:13:31 | kergoth | noda: let me know how it goes, i'm working on a couple things that i need done to get a new initrd.bin out |
| 22:13:54 | noda | 11a - got it :) |
| 22:13:54 | noda | Great! Now I'm ready :) |
| 22:13:54 | noda | Thanks :) |
| 22:13:54 | noda | umount /dev/pts && mv /dev/* /boot/var/dev && rm -rf /dev && ln -s /var/dev /dev |
| 22:13:54 | noda | hovers over the Enter key for a second... |
| 22:14:00 | noda | Unable to rename '/dev/pts': Not a directory |
| 22:14:17 | kergoth | rm -rf /dev/pts; mv /dev/* /boot/var/dev/ |
| 22:14:18 | kergoth | .. |
| 22:14:20 | kergoth | :) |
| 22:14:32 | Rixster | that looks bold |
| 22:14:36 | noda | Looks good! :) |
| 22:14:36 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:14:51 | kergoth | bold indeed, noda's got guts ;) |
| 22:14:53 | noda | /dev/pts was already created by the broken upgrade though, right? |
| 22:14:54 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:14:57 | noda | rofl, something you'd never do, eh :) |
| 22:15:01 | noda | Well, I still have a console |
| 22:15:03 | Rixster | just thinkin' what fun that would do to a solaris machine |
| 22:15:08 | kergoth | noda: well, /boot/var/dev/pts will end up being a symlink to /mnt/devpts |
| 22:15:25 | kergoth | noda: and of course that gets copied into /var/dev/, and linked via the /dev->/var/dev symlink |
| 22:15:28 | noda | Okay, now install oz-base? |
| 22:15:29 | kergoth | noda: so it'll be there |
| 22:15:38 | kergoth | noda: yep. might need to force the reinstall |
| 22:15:41 | kergoth | i forget the ipkg opt |
| 22:15:44 | kergoth | -force-reinstall? hm |
| 22:15:46 | kergoth | ponders |
| 22:15:58 | hardwire | pokes |
| 22:16:02 | kergoth | prods |
| 22:16:21 | noda | What's the change to ipkg.conf, out of curiosity? :) |
| 22:16:29 | noda | ("D" doesn't work since diff isn't installed) |
| 22:16:33 | kergoth | noda: there isnt one, it just prompts on everything |
| 22:16:35 | kergoth | noda: stupid thing |
| 22:16:44 | noda | Ah. |
| 22:16:46 | kergoth | noda: hm, i shoiuld add diff, eH? |
| 22:17:00 | noda | /dev/ is pretty empty... |
| 22:17:19 | kergoth | you symlinked /dev to /var/dev right? |
| 22:17:21 | noda | Don't have any hda2, hda3, etc. |
| 22:17:22 | kergoth | or rather |
| 22:17:22 | noda | Yep |
| 22:17:24 | kergoth | the oz-base did |
| 22:17:24 | kergoth | okay |
| 22:17:29 | noda | No, I did. |
| 22:17:29 | kergoth | ls -l /boot/var/dev/ |
| 22:17:32 | kergoth | are the devices out there? |
| 22:17:59 | noda | rofl, that "-l" wasn't exactly necessary *sees screen upon screen of gibberish* |
| 22:18:00 | noda | Yep :) |
| 22:18:07 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:18:10 | kergoth | okay good |
| 22:18:13 | noda | It's got 'em all. |
| 22:18:14 | kergoth | now |
| 22:18:14 | noda | Reboot? |
| 22:18:17 | kergoth | ls -l /var/ |
| 22:18:24 | kergoth | is /var/dev there? |
| 22:18:29 | noda | dev (not a symlink) |
| 22:18:30 | noda | Yep |
| 22:18:33 | kergoth | okay |
| 22:18:34 | kergoth | now |
| 22:18:39 | kergoth | hm |
| 22:18:42 | kergoth | on bootup |
| 22:18:42 | noda | /dev/ has a few things in it - console, null, ... |
| 22:18:48 | kergoth | okay good |
| 22:18:58 | noda | On bootup? I reboot? |
| 22:19:00 | kergoth | on bootup, itll cp -a /boot/var/dev/* to /var/dev/ after mounting the ramfs |
| 22:19:06 | kergoth | so tada, the devices exist |
| 22:19:08 | kergoth | and life is good |
| 22:19:09 | noda | Cool :) |
| 22:19:11 | noda | That's neat. |
| 22:19:12 | kergoth | theoretically ;) |
| 22:19:14 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:19:16 | kergoth | go for it |
| 22:19:38 | kergoth | so now no more wasted flash writes due to device permission changes |
| 22:19:39 | noda | Whee! |
| 22:19:47 | noda | Awesome. |
| 22:19:58 | kergoth | rebooted yet/ |
| 22:20:00 | noda | Moment of truth! |
| 22:20:06 | noda | blink. blink. blink. |
| 22:20:07 | kergoth | crosses fingers |
| 22:20:21 | noda | Blank screen...... |
| 22:20:26 | noda | No more blink..... |
| 22:20:33 | noda | WOO! |
| 22:20:38 | kergoth | worked? |
| 22:20:46 | noda | worked! Stylus and all! |
| 22:20:50 | kergoth | sweet |
| 22:20:51 | kergoth | okay |
| 22:20:58 | kergoth | i'm impressed |
| 22:21:00 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:21:04 | noda | Ack, /etc/fstab is missing /mnt/ram I think. |
| 22:21:10 | kergoth | hm |
| 22:21:19 | kergoth | noda: thats odd, the oz-base postinst should ahve added it |
| 22:21:26 | noda | Hrm, no it isn't... but I don't have any of my apps. |
| 22:21:29 | kergoth | noda: feel free to /usr/lib/ipkg/info/oz-base.postinst configure; |
| 22:21:34 | kergoth | er |
| 22:21:37 | kergoth | is confused |
| 22:21:38 | noda | /mnt/ram is certainly empty. I'll mount manually. |
| 22:21:50 | kergoth | noda: /dev/mtdblock6 exists? |
| 22:21:53 | noda | Hrm, weird. I'll try rebooting, see if it works again. |
| 22:21:57 | kergoth | k |
| 22:22:04 | noda | Oh, must be in the wrong order or something - it tries to mount before it exists? |
| 22:22:14 | kergoth | hmmm |
| 22:22:16 | kergoth | yep |
| 22:22:17 | kergoth | thats it |
| 22:22:20 | kergoth | fuck me |
| 22:22:21 | kergoth | okay |
| 22:22:25 | kergoth | this is an easy fix |
| 22:22:26 | noda | Heh |
| 22:22:26 | kergoth | hold up |
| 22:22:34 | noda | I can just edit the rc, right? |
| 22:22:39 | kergoth | well |
| 22:22:40 | kergoth | the thing is |
| 22:22:44 | kergoth | we have to run the filesytem mount |
| 22:22:48 | kergoth | before we copy the devs |
| 22:22:51 | kergoth | because /var needs to be mounted |
| 22:22:53 | kergoth | but |
| 22:22:55 | kergoth | what we can do |
| 22:22:55 | noda | Oh, not THAT easy a fix :) |
| 22:23:02 | kergoth | is put mtdblock6 in /var/dev/, in *flash* |
| 22:23:11 | kergoth | then the device exists, before it gets mounted on top of it |
| 22:23:11 | noda | Yeah, that'd work :) |
| 22:23:50 | noda | Wait, how do you put stuff in /var/dev in *flash*? |
| 22:24:00 | kergoth | well |
| 22:24:03 | kergoth | it already is |
| 22:24:11 | noda | gets confused all over again. |
| 22:24:21 | kergoth | noda: you can mount one thing on top of another |
| 22:24:27 | kergoth | noda: you can mount on a dir that isnt empty |
| 22:24:27 | noda | Oh, didn't know that :) |
| 22:24:33 | kergoth | noda: if you put files in there |
| 22:24:39 | kergoth | noda: you just cant see them anymore when the new thing gets mounted |
| 22:24:43 | kergoth | noda: which is how we swing this |
| 22:24:49 | noda | So I have to umount all the dev stuff... |
| 22:24:55 | kergoth | not necessarily |
| 22:24:56 | kergoth | do this |
| 22:25:03 | kergoth | hang on |
| 22:25:07 | noda | This on the console, or anywhere? (i.e., ssh) |
| 22:25:10 | kergoth | console. |
| 22:25:12 | kergoth | definately console. |
| 22:25:13 | kergoth | :) |
| 22:25:15 | kergoth | okay |
| 22:25:15 | noda | lol |
| 22:25:17 | kergoth | unmount /var |
| 22:25:19 | kergoth | which means |
| 22:25:26 | kergoth | most devices go awoay for a bit |
| 22:25:27 | kergoth | then |
| 22:25:34 | kergoth | cp -a /boot/var/dev/mtdblock6 /var/dev/ |
| 22:25:36 | kergoth | THEN |
| 22:25:37 | kergoth | mount -a |
| 22:25:41 | kergoth | :) |
| 22:25:49 | noda | Erm. |
| 22:25:52 | noda | Busybox on zaurus login: |
| 22:26:00 | kergoth | erm. |
| 22:26:04 | kergoth | login? |
| 22:26:08 | kergoth | is confused |
| 22:26:11 | kergoth | taht login prompt looks weird |
| 22:26:15 | kergoth | it usually doesnt say busybox on |
| 22:26:16 | noda | I get login:, so I type "root". Then I get "Busybox on zaurus login:" |
| 22:26:17 | kergoth | wtf? |
| 22:26:19 | kergoth | er |
| 22:26:21 | kergoth | is confused |
| 22:26:33 | kergoth | shoots self in the foot |
| 22:26:43 | noda | I have to do an ipkg upgrade of oz-base now? :) |
| 22:26:48 | kergoth | no, should be fine |
| 22:26:49 | kergoth | um |
| 22:26:54 | noda | How do I get in? :) |
| 22:26:57 | kergoth | reboot back into opie, cause sitting at a useless prompt is useless |
| 22:26:58 | kergoth | then |
| 22:27:01 | ljp | knock |
| 22:27:04 | noda | I can do stuff in ssh. |
| 22:27:05 | kergoth | wait for me to figure out what exploded |
| 22:27:05 | ljp | 3 times |
| 22:27:05 | Rixster | quit "Gotta go - cheers peeps" |
| 22:27:07 | kergoth | :) |
| 22:27:45 | noda | Okay.... well, I'll be back in a bit. Thanks a zillion for the help, this is way cool and if I go to a console after every reboot it actually works :) |
| 22:27:57 | noda | (which is temporarily okay since I never reboot) |
| 22:28:03 | noda | Gotta make a phone call :) |
| 22:29:16 | noda | grins. |
| 22:30:03 | noda | plays a game of freecell when he gets a busy signal. |
| 22:35:54 | ljp | whats freecell? |
| 22:38:25 | Grok_ | Has anyone got their D-link 660w CF wireless card working on 5500 ??? |
| 22:40:29 | Grok_ | I've been trying to the my D-link 660w to work for a few days. any help is appreciated |
| 22:41:06 | fatbum | Grok_: whats wrong with it? |
| 22:42:16 | Grok_ | hello fatbum: the link light are on but can't talk to the AP |
| 22:42:35 | fatbum | hmm |
| 22:42:39 | fatbum | sharp rom? |
| 22:42:42 | Grok_ | got ROM 2.38 and it and w/o WEP |
| 22:43:23 | fatbum | ok...in terminal try dhcpcd wlan0 |
| 22:43:36 | fatbum | see if you get...of course if the ap is assigning ips |
| 22:43:40 | fatbum | brb |
| 22:43:48 | Grok_ | cool |
| 22:45:23 | Grok_ | still no luck |
| 22:48:23 | fatbum | ok |
| 22:48:26 | Grok_ | I've tried static and dynamic IP, as well as with and without WEP. Also made changes to wlan-ng.conf to reflect the D-LINK 660W card |
| 22:51:10 | fatbum | the person to ask is kergoth` |
| 22:51:20 | | fatbum: huh? |
| 22:51:20 | fatbum | ibot: wlanm |
| 22:51:21 | | fatbum: i'm not following you... |
| 22:51:21 | fatbum | ibot: wlan |
| 22:51:30 | | somebody said wifi was see wireless or get either a wcf12 linksys for $62 shipped from buy.com (nice small card, well supported, but not too great on battery) or the socket low power wlan for 160 something plus shipping also on buy.com (great battery usage, needs special drivers) or http://www.zauruszone.com/howtos/wirelesscards.shtml |
| 22:51:30 | fatbum | ibot: wifi |
| 22:53:24 | Grok_ | thanks for the referral. There are 2 kergoth online, which one should I ask? Thanks again for your help. |
| 22:53:51 | noda | kergoth`ARGH: |
| 22:53:55 | noda | :) |
| 22:54:16 | Grok_ | Thanks noda and fatbum |
| 22:55:29 | fatbum | sorry i couldnt help |
| 22:57:22 | ljp | ask the one that responds |
| 22:57:30 | | ACTION mutters about buildsystems and tells people to rtfm or tells ibot to tell people to RTFM |
| 22:57:30 | ljp | ibot emulate kergoth |
| 22:57:39 | noda | rofl |
| 22:58:32 | | rtfm is Read The Fine Product Documentation |
| 22:58:32 | Neo|Work | ibot rtfm |
| 22:58:52 | Neo|Work | nonono that's incorrect |
| 22:59:06 | Neo|Work | RTFM is Read The Fucking Manual (TM) |
| 22:59:09 | | OK, Neo|Work. |
| 22:59:09 | Neo|Work | ibot no RTFM is Read The Fucking Manual (TM) |
| 22:59:21 | Wintre | RTFM == Consult the Documentation |
| 22:59:22 | Neo|Work | no censoring on such well used terms |
| 22:59:51 | | f*ck is see farq |
| 22:59:51 | kergoth`zzz | ibot f*ck |
| 22:59:57 | | I think you meant fuck. dont beat around the bush, man. |
| 22:59:57 | kergoth`zzz | ibot farq |
| 23:00:01 | kergoth`zzz | :) |
| 23:00:09 | | Neo|Work: excuse me? |
| 23:00:09 | Neo|Work | ibot fsck |
| 23:00:28 | | No devices specified to be checked! |
| 23:00:28 | Neo|Work | ibot fsck |
| 23:01:45 | | gnome is the GNU Object Model Environment or a competitor to KDE or see http://www.gnome.org |
| 23:01:45 | fatbum | ibot gnome |
| 23:03:08 | | okay, Neo|Work. |
| 23:03:08 | Neo|Work | ibot gnome is also bloated |
| 23:03:13 | | hmmm... gnome is the GNU Object Model Environment or a competitor to KDE or see http://www.gnome.org or bloated |
| 23:03:13 | Neo|Work | ibot gnome |
| 23:03:16 | | kde is probably somewhat sluggish on a 32Mb iPAQ... totally untested on a 64 so far |
| 23:03:16 | Neo|Work | ibot kde |
| 23:03:22 | | okay, Neo|Work. |
| 23:03:22 | Neo|Work | ibot kde is also bloated |
| 23:06:51 | Neo|Work | does anyone know if the typical ipaq/zaurus supports double buffering? |
| 23:07:07 | Neo|Work | I mean true hardware based double buffering where you 'move" the display memory pointer |
| 23:09:23 | fatbum | we know nothing |
| 23:09:48 | | fatbum: sorry... |
| 23:09:48 | fatbum | ibot galeon |
| 23:11:12 | | bigboss was last seen on #zaurus 3 hours, 39 minutes and 49 seconds ago, saying: and at least they updated the chip to the Hitachi 200mhz instead of that funky one they were using [Tue Oct 8 20:31:23 2002] |
| 23:11:12 | erikd | ibot seen bigboss |
| 23:13:10 | | fatbum: huh? |
| 23:13:10 | fatbum | ibot portage |
| 23:14:38 | Nighthawk98TJ | the stock email app sucks pretty bad with IMAP servers, doesnt it? |
| 23:14:57 | endr | Nighthawk98TJ: true that |
| 23:15:17 | | warmi was last seen on #zaurus 4 hours, 15 minutes and 30 seconds ago, saying: bigBoss: but they said it was literally rotten and smelled like that [Tue Oct 8 19:59:47 2002] |
| 23:15:17 | br33zy | ibot seen warmi |
| 23:15:33 | Nighthawk98TJ | ya, it doesnt view folders properly and it loads files separetly |
| 23:15:47 | br33zy | ibot message for warmi: hey.. whats up? |
| 23:15:56 | | br33zy: huh? |
| 23:15:56 | br33zy | ibot rocks |
| 23:15:56 | | ibot was last seen on #bzflag 42 days, 23 hours, 48 minutes and 41 seconds ago, saying: ibot insult ibot [Tue Aug 27 00:27:15 2002] |
| 23:15:56 | fatbum | ibot seen ibot |
| 23:16:06 | br33zy | lol |
| 23:16:11 | | ibot is nothing but a thick petrification of gleeking bat toenails. |
| 23:16:11 | fatbum | ibot insult ibot |
| 23:16:12 | | br33zy: sorry... |
| 23:16:12 | br33zy | ibot say ibot insult |
| 23:16:18 | | ibot was last seen on #bzflag 42 days, 23 hours, 49 minutes and 3 seconds ago, saying: ibot insult ibot [Tue Aug 27 00:27:15 2002] |
| 23:16:18 | br33zy | ibot seen ibot |
| 23:16:29 | Nighthawk98TJ | so what do you guys recommend for a good email client? |
| 23:16:35 | | wish i knew, br33zy |
| 23:16:35 | br33zy | ibot puedo ir al bano? |
| 23:16:35 | fatbum | evolution |
| 23:16:49 | br33zy | i like sylpheed... |
| 23:16:52 | br33zy | its fast |
| 23:16:56 | fatbum | br33zy: no puedes ir al bano, porque estas una changa |
| 23:17:13 | br33zy | fatbum, im only in spanish 1... dont know that much |
| 23:17:17 | fatbum | hehe |
| 23:17:19 | fatbum | ok |
| 23:17:38 | br33zy | moo |
| 23:17:38 | br33zy | br |
| 23:17:39 | br33zy | b |
| 23:17:43 | fatbum | ?tienes dos ohos verdad? |
| 23:17:45 | Nighthawk98TJ | for the Z i mean |
| 23:18:12 | fatbum | leaves to install gentoo |
| 23:18:15 | | Shak was last seen on #zaurus 2 hours, 57 minutes and 59 seconds ago, saying: is away: Kernel Panic [Tue Oct 8 21:20:16 2002] |
| 23:18:15 | Coup-Laptop | ibot seen Shak? |
| 23:20:39 | br33zy | Nighthawk98TJ.. oh sorry |
| 23:23:12 | Nighthawk98TJ | ya... it works pretty well with POP3... but i would prefer to grab my mail off my IMAP mailserver and not bypass that... :\ |
| 23:29:53 | Nighthawk98TJ | does the built-in email client need to be open all the time for it to automatically check email and flash the LED? |
| 23:37:54 | Nighthawk98TJ | where does the default email client store all of its emails? i need to delete them all at once but i cant find that option in the email client itself.... |
| 23:46:21 | midnight | I'd be interested to know if a Netgear Wireless Compact Flash Card, #MA701 will work in a Zaurus SL5000? |
| 23:46:40 | midnight | And if not, what wireless NIC might work |
| 23:46:40 | midnight | ? |
| 23:47:01 | jbardin | midnight check out myzaurus.com |
| 23:47:08 | jbardin | they have listings of cards for sale there... |
| 23:47:13 | Nighthawk98TJ | midnight: yes, it does |
| 23:47:19 | jbardin | i would imagine any model on that sight would work |
| 23:47:35 | Nighthawk98TJ | man, the stock email client sucks... |
| 23:48:10 | midnight | Thank you very much. I'll grab it off ebay right now then. Just got an SL 5000 off ebay and I sure don't know just what to do with it. |
| 23:50:44 | jbardin | i play 'froot' on the shitter |
| 23:50:54 | jbardin | if your familar with 'snood' its pretty much the same thing |
| 23:53:55 | midnight | heh |
| 23:54:38 | midnight | I can't get past the bash prompt as of yet. |
| 23:55:00 | midnight | I'm having too much fun with it |
| 23:55:13 | midnight | doesn't take much to amuse me, obviously |
| 23:55:46 | sethml | Hi all. I've been trying to get OpenZaurus working reasonably on my Zaurus. |
| 23:56:13 | sethml | I can't get syncing working to my Linux box. 2.4.19 kernel, usbdnet patch from http://www.ruault.com/Zaurus/ethernet-over-usb-howto.html |
| 23:56:18 | jbardin | midnight also check out the gameboy emulators |
| 23:56:34 | jbardin | sethml what version of the rom are you usingf on the z? |
| 23:56:41 | jbardin | if its an old verion it wont work |
| 23:56:46 | sethml | Whenever I stick the Zaurus in the cradle, ifconfig hangs big-time. |
| 23:57:17 | jbardin | http://216.136.200.194/auction/Oct/20021062461760691665343.jpg |
| 23:57:25 | sethml | I'm using 2.9.5.5. My next question was going to be about getting ipkg upgrade to work... |
| 23:58:05 | sethml | Is usbdnet broken in 2.9.5.5? |
| 23:58:45 | sethml | I've gotten the network link working under Windows, but couldn't find a version of Qtopia Desktop that'd talk to the Zaurus. |
| 23:59:59 | jbardin | hmm |
