| 00:11:07 | Jubei | hello everyone. Can someone point me to a document describing how to connect the usb cradle of the Z to linux? (Mandrake 8.2) Thanks |
| 00:15:23 | ljp | http://www.zauruszone.com/howtos/linux_ethernet-over-usb-howto.shtml |
| 00:23:30 | Jubei | thanks |
| 00:24:32 | NetAmp | where's the rum, i'm feelin' dumb, the world is spinning round and round and round... |
| 00:24:33 | NetAmp | hm |
| 00:24:36 | NetAmp | nevermind |
| 00:24:59 | NetAmp | just a spontaneous random thought, they tend to pop up out of nowhere |
| 00:27:31 | NetAmp | oh man it's @062 (or 2:30am) |
| 00:27:34 | NetAmp | i'm bored... |
| 00:28:36 | NetAmp | indahouse |
| 00:28:57 | ljp | no its not.. its :32 pm |
| 00:29:04 | ljp | 6:32 even |
| 00:29:13 | NetAmp | ;) |
| 00:33:35 | whardier | no its not |
| 00:33:42 | whardier | its 2:30 |
| 00:33:52 | NetAmp | hah |
| 00:34:44 | ljp | hmmm.. thats weird, man how can it be 2:30 AND 6:30 at the same time?! |
| 00:35:09 | NetAmp | *lol* |
| 00:37:59 | NetAmp | well, there's this spinning globe... |
| 00:38:19 | NetAmp | ...which is actually shared between multiple dimensions |
| 00:38:20 | ljp | hehe wow, man.. thats cool |
| 00:39:00 | NetAmp | so, since E equals MC squared, that means the globe (usually called 'Earth') is full of weirdness |
| 00:39:20 | NetAmp | and that's why it allows for multiple time zones... |
| 00:39:22 | NetAmp | neat huh? |
| 00:39:26 | NetAmp | :P |
| 00:41:30 | NetAmp | hm maybe I should write that down in a book and sell for mucho $$$ |
| 00:42:01 | NetAmp | but first I'll go sleep to give my seriously messed-up brain some rest ;) |
| 00:42:11 | NetAmp | have fun guys |
| 02:00:29 | ljp | whardier: ping: hint: http://draknor.net/ipaq/opie-look.php |
| 02:47:09 | peanut | waves |
| 02:57:39 | Jubei | my ethernet-over-usb forgets everything after a couple of seconds. |
| 02:57:46 | Jubei | usb0 disappears, etc... |
| 02:57:59 | Jubei | any common mistakes I might have comitted? |
| 03:03:53 | warmi | hi |
| 03:04:28 | jay | who uses gnome with debian here |
| 03:08:02 | ljp | I use kde wth mandrake.. does that count? |
| 03:08:09 | ljp | heheheh |
| 03:08:17 | ljp | I also use gnome, though |
| 03:08:26 | professor_x | got no damn windowborders |
| 03:08:28 | professor_x | :( |
| 03:08:37 | ljp | hmm how'd that happen? |
| 03:09:00 | professor_x | #debian says i need to install a window manager |
| 03:09:17 | professor_x | i have sawfish and windowmaker installed but it no worky |
| 03:09:32 | professor_x | gotta restart x |
| 03:09:34 | professor_x | brb |
| 03:11:29 | Jubei | my usb0 interface disappears after every 30 seconds |
| 03:11:39 | Jubei | then I have to configure it again. |
| 03:11:50 | Jubei | what could have gone wrong? |
| 03:12:59 | Jubei | same thing on the z -- it drops the connection very often. |
| 03:14:59 | ljp | hmmm thats odd. never seen that before |
| 03:16:28 | Jubei | and says things like.. /etc/hotplug/usb.agent: missing kernel or user mode driver usbdnet |
| 03:16:37 | Jubei | but it is not missing... |
| 03:17:22 | Jubei | :---( |
| 03:17:27 | ljp | what does lsmod tell you? |
| 03:18:53 | jay | gggrrr |
| 03:19:35 | Jubei | How can I insert that here? |
| 03:19:59 | Jubei | (I'm so lame with irc) |
| 03:20:33 | Jubei | usbcore 59072 1 [usbdnet usb-uhci] |
| 03:21:21 | Jubei | usb-uhci 21668 0 (unused) |
| 03:21:45 | Jubei | usbdnet 14184 0 |
| 03:22:22 | ljp | hmmm.. that unused is odd |
| 03:23:03 | Jubei | Module Size Used by Tainted: GF |
| 03:23:05 | Jubei | usbdnet 14184 0 |
| 03:23:07 | Jubei | nls_iso8859-1 2816 1 (autoclean) |
| 03:23:09 | Jubei | isofs 25792 1 (autoclean) |
| 03:23:11 | Jubei | inflate_fs 19328 0 (autoclean) [isofs] |
| 03:23:13 | Jubei | agpgart 31552 3 (autoclean) |
| 03:23:15 | Jubei | vmnet 19456 7 |
| 03:23:17 | Jubei | parport_pc 22088 0 |
| 03:23:19 | Jubei | parport 23968 0 [parport_pc] |
| 03:23:21 | Jubei | vmmon 19316 6 |
| 03:23:25 | Jubei | i810_audio 20288 0 |
| 03:23:27 | Jubei | soundcore 4068 2 [i810_audio] |
| 03:23:29 | Jubei | ac97_codec 9568 0 [i810_audio] |
| 03:23:31 | Jubei | af_packet 12488 0 (autoclean) |
| 03:23:33 | Jubei | usb-uhci 21668 0 (unused) |
| 03:23:35 | Jubei | usbcore 59072 1 [usbdnet usb-uhci] |
| 03:23:37 | Jubei | 8139too 14336 1 (autoclean) |
| 03:23:39 | Jubei | mii 1360 0 (autoclean) [8139too] |
| 03:23:40 | ljp | do you have the Z on the cradle and the usb plugged in? |
| 03:23:41 | Jubei | sr_mod 15160 4 (autoclean) |
| 03:23:43 | Jubei | ide-scsi 8032 2 |
| 03:23:45 | Jubei | scsi_mod 92488 2 [sr_mod ide-scsi] |
| 03:23:47 | Jubei | rtc 5912 1 (autoclean) |
| 03:23:49 | Jubei | ext3 62092 4 |
| 03:23:51 | Jubei | jbd 39356 4 [ext3] |
| 03:23:55 | Jubei | oops. sorry :-) |
| 03:23:57 | Jubei | yes |
| 03:24:01 | ljp | heheh |
| 03:24:20 | ljp | ohh. I see I thought there were only a few lines.. |
| 03:25:31 | ljp | you sure you have a usb-uhci usb port? |
| 03:26:20 | Jubei | no. oops... How can I be sure? |
| 03:28:11 | ljp | just build all those as modules.. usb-ohci it should figure it out. maybe that why.. |
| 03:28:36 | ljp | know squat about kernl and modules |
| 03:28:48 | Jubei | I think yes... I checked it out, and this laptop does have usb-uhci |
| 03:30:16 | ljp | do you have the power also plugged into the cradle? |
| 03:30:45 | Jubei | yes I do |
| 03:30:59 | Jubei | I even disabled sleeping etc |
| 03:36:51 | Jubei | usb-ohci does not load |
| 03:37:22 | Jubei | usb-uhci does, but unused. |
| 03:37:46 | Jubei | unused even when the usb0 if is up |
| 03:38:45 | ljp | yaa.. I'm seeing that here also.. with a working usb/zaurus |
| 03:40:25 | Jubei | ah. |
| 03:41:02 | Jubei | Now the connection was stable until I started to dl a file from the Z via ftp |
| 03:41:10 | Jubei | then it closed down |
| 03:41:53 | Jubei | what is the rom version you are using? |
| 03:42:04 | ljp | 1.13, and OZ |
| 03:42:14 | Jubei | OZ? |
| 03:42:22 | | openzaurus is, like, a Community version of the operating environment for the Sharp Zaurus SL-5x00[d] PDA. See http://openzaurus.sf.net/. or http://openzaurus.sf.net/feeds/3.0/ |
| 03:42:22 | ljp | ibot: openzaurus |
| 03:42:22 | Jubei | ah. never mind |
| 03:42:49 | ljp | what rom are you using? |
| 03:43:09 | Jubei | Yes, I realized it finally :-) I was using OZ before. |
| 03:43:25 | ljp | heheh |
| 03:43:34 | ljp | 9.2 is getting nice |
| 03:43:39 | nasa | ljp: is there a way to kill a process that is a 'D'? |
| 03:44:02 | nasa | without shutting the Z down that is... |
| 03:44:05 | Jubei | Version: 2.4.6-rmk |
| 03:44:17 | Jubei | Compiled by: namikosi@mascaras |
| 03:44:26 | Jubei | ROM Version: --.-- |
| 03:45:57 | Jubei | This is an older one which uses the mmc card as the main memory and leaves all the ram free for apps |
| 03:46:22 | ljp | pauls rom? |
| 03:46:47 | Jubei | dunno. Got if from zauruszone quite some time ago |
| 03:47:01 | ljp | yep.. pauls rom. |
| 03:47:11 | ljp | there may be a newer verion out |
| 03:47:19 | ljp | version even |
| 03:48:30 | Jubei | Ok. This should have been the first thing I check. Let me upgrade first and check the connection again. |
| 03:52:16 | nasa | Hey ljp: how have you found oz beta 9 to be? |
| 03:53:20 | ljp | well. beya9 is ok.. beta 9.2 is better.. has more room. I recommend waiting for kergoth's next release. That should be nice |
| 03:54:53 | nasa | I am currently trying out 9 and have had lots of programs crash, leaving opie dead. |
| 03:55:17 | ljp | hmmm |
| 03:55:30 | Jubei | ljp: please send me that url again with the OZ rom. I lost my history. |
| 03:55:54 | ljp | hang on.. |
| 03:57:25 | nasa | for example: I will attempt to start the terminal. I may or may not get the hour glass, after waiting several minutes and no termianl I will check other apps/tabs (no respones). Since I am logged in via slogin, I do a 'ps aux' and notice that qpe is showing a "D" - uninterrutible process. |
| 03:58:19 | nasa | This doesn't happen every time -- 1 in 3 tries (after shutting off the Z) will start the app correctly. |
| 03:58:53 | ljp | try this: geezer.umgllc.net/kergoth/initrd-oz3b9.2.bin |
| 03:59:13 | ljp | hmmm.. thats odd |
| 03:59:32 | nasa | btw: what is irda? |
| 03:59:43 | Jubei | thanks |
| 03:59:44 | ljp | infrared |
| 03:59:57 | nasa | hmm, that's what I thought. |
| 04:00:05 | nasa | I am looking at /var/log/mesages |
| 04:00:59 | ljp | heheh... |
| 04:02:50 | nasa | what device is 3c:01? |
| 04:03:22 | ljp | hmmm.. not sure |
| 04:03:46 | nasa | Lots of error messages about not finding a minix or minix V2 filesystem |
| 04:03:55 | nasa | on that device |
| 04:04:22 | ljp | hmmm.. maybe one of the mtdblock devices |
| 04:04:46 | nasa | and lots of error messages "modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module irda0" |
| 04:10:22 | nasa | could looking for the irda0 module create problems? |
| 04:11:32 | ljp | noo.. its probably the 3c:01 device.. I think thats the ram section |
| 04:11:59 | ljp | can you try 9.2? |
| 04:12:24 | nasa | Sure, it just won't be done tonight... I have to work in the moring |
| 04:12:40 | ljp | hmm bummer |
| 04:16:26 | ljp | bye |
| 04:49:17 | whardier | oh man I need booty |
| 04:58:26 | W|GGL|T | lol...who doesn't |
| 05:00:02 | Com[Plex] | whats new guys? |
| 05:01:38 | Com[Plex] | what is the best source for the latest zaurus apps? |
| 05:01:55 | Com[Plex] | is sourceforge it? or is killefiz's site about the best? |
| 05:19:09 | Com[Plex] | and, are there any decompilers that would work to decompile zaurus apps? |
| 05:19:13 | Com[Plex] | just for fun.. |
| 05:35:41 | whardier | where is JAsonNJ |
| 05:35:44 | whardier | I need the hook up ! |
| 06:43:16 | W|GGL|T | is away: I'm busy smoking a blunt or sleeping or something |
| 08:00:13 | overcode | does the Sharp have any sort of PCMCIA addon? |
| 08:00:20 | overcode | err, the Zaurus. |
| 08:09:45 | GepetAW_ | Hmm I dont think so |
| 08:09:55 | Gepeto | hard to fit a PC card in a CF slot I guess |
| 08:13:41 | Gepeto | my head hurts :( |
| 10:12:14 | Vito` | Gepeto... it's conceivable that a CompactFlash-to-PCMCIA adapter would let you use 3.3v 16-bit PCMCIA (non-Cardbus) cards. |
| 10:27:24 | Kral | Can someone tell me what version of Opera comes with the PDA? Is it their version 6 codebase or an earlier codebase that has bugs with transparent PNGs? |
| 10:36:03 | Kral | 32 users all doing nothing but idling. Horray for IRC.. |
| 13:00:42 | Twiun | Yo peeps |
| 14:59:30 | Com[Plex] | weee |
| 15:18:13 | NetAmp | Oh man I am so definitely in LOVE with Windows XP System Restore! |
| 15:18:19 | NetAmp | haha! |
| 15:19:13 | NetAmp | dang there I almost lost 60 Megs of Outlook data :( |
| 15:19:17 | NetAmp | *sigh* |
| 15:20:24 | NetAmp | I guess there aren't many XP (or any Windows) users at all in here |
| 15:20:47 | NetAmp | but those of you who do: NEVER turn off System Restore or you'll regret it one day ;) |
| 15:22:54 | | Slashdot - Updated 2002-05-12 13:44:42 | RoadRunner Co-Opting "Organization" Headers | Einstein's 1,427-Page F.B.I. File | Matrox's New Three-Head Video Card | How bnetd Developers Reverse Engineered Battle.net |
| 15:22:54 | NetAmp | ibot: slashdot |
| 15:23:05 | NetAmp | hm... |
| 15:24:00 | NetAmp | wb :) |
| 15:28:37 | Twiun | Boo! |
| 15:28:42 | NetAmp | aaaaahhhhhhh |
| 15:28:57 | NetAmp | got really scared there |
| 15:28:59 | NetAmp | ;) |
| 15:29:18 | Twiun | I just stumbled on sdldoom for the Z... doesn't work though *sniff* |
| 15:29:22 | Twiun | just segfaults |
| 15:29:27 | NetAmp | :-( |
| 15:29:44 | ljp | check this out: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.1756.png |
| 15:30:09 | Twiun | Sexy! |
| 15:30:20 | NetAmp | PINGIZAURU! |
| 15:30:22 | NetAmp | wheee |
| 15:30:33 | NetAmp | sweeeet gui! |
| 15:30:46 | NetAmp | wants one right now :S |
| 15:30:50 | NetAmp | ;-) |
| 15:31:11 | NetAmp | I'm really curious about the XScale Zaurus(es) |
| 15:33:24 | NetAmp | ljp: did you do that pic or did whardier? |
| 15:33:37 | ljp | Harlekin did.. one of the opie devs |
| 15:34:01 | ljp | been trying to get whardier to do some backgrounds.. |
| 15:34:12 | NetAmp | wow, now PocketPC and/or Palm really can't compete with this at all :P |
| 15:36:40 | ljp | neither can the SHarp rom.. heheheh |
| 15:39:08 | NetAmp | *lolz* |
| 15:39:21 | NetAmp | that's why Sharp should incorporate OZ/Opie |
| 15:39:30 | NetAmp | with their stuff |
| 15:40:09 | NetAmp | people will really want this kind of smooth gui ;) |
| 15:40:20 | NetAmp | (that is, if the PIM apps are also good) |
| 15:40:26 | ljp | They just may do that.. |
| 15:40:36 | NetAmp | nice |
| 15:40:56 | ljp | and if they hire some of us, they'd get much more improvement |
| 15:41:02 | ljp | heheheh] |
| 15:43:51 | NetAmp | ouch |
| 15:43:53 | NetAmp | that hurt |
| 15:44:04 | ljp | self netsplit? |
| 15:44:14 | NetAmp | Windows just gave me another horrific darkblue screen |
| 15:44:26 | NetAmp | saying "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" or something |
| 15:44:39 | NetAmp | now what AM I supposed to do with such an error message? |
| 15:45:17 | NetAmp | argh |
| 15:45:29 | NetAmp | they should make those more user friendly :P |
| 15:45:59 | NetAmp | I guess that's the downside of building your own PC's... |
| 15:46:13 | NetAmp | got the wrong hardware combination this time :( |
| 15:46:23 | ljp | hehe |
| 15:46:27 | NetAmp | ;) |
| 15:47:22 | NetAmp | Asus A7V133 MB & AMD Athlon XP 1800+ & WinXP... should work.. |
| 15:47:31 | NetAmp | I think it's my friggin' video card |
| 15:47:49 | ljp | nope.. its your OS.. |
| 15:47:50 | NetAmp | since I put in this TNT2 Pro after my GeForce got fried a while ago |
| 15:48:13 | NetAmp | ljp: that was to be expected from a Linux enthousiast ;-) |
| 15:48:15 | ljp | heheh |
| 15:48:15 | NetAmp | haha |
| 15:48:25 | ljp | hey I'm on win2k also.. |
| 15:48:34 | ljp | I know a good OS when I use one.. |
| 15:48:36 | NetAmp | yeah but win2k is kinda cool |
| 15:48:42 | NetAmp | and XP isn't |
| 15:49:00 | ljp | I really wish BeOS hadn't have gone belly up |
| 15:49:01 | NetAmp | heck yeah I need to install Mandrake... but I gotta get XP running stable too |
| 15:49:07 | NetAmp | (if that's even possible) |
| 15:49:10 | NetAmp | yeah |
| 15:49:14 | NetAmp | or what about Lindows? |
| 15:49:21 | NetAmp | do you think that'll have any future? |
| 15:49:41 | ljp | uhhh lindows? |
| 15:49:44 | NetAmp | combining Windows with Linux... |
| 15:49:50 | NetAmp | it's quite scary |
| 15:49:56 | ljp | heh... blastfamy! |
| 15:50:07 | NetAmp | it exists: http://www.lindows.com/ |
| 15:50:17 | ljp | I know... |
| 15:50:18 | NetAmp | though I haven't seen any systems running it |
| 15:51:49 | NetAmp | hm It looks a bit too much like KDE |
| 15:52:23 | George- | hi guys |
| 15:52:27 | NetAmp | hi |
| 15:52:27 | George- | what's the batt life of the Z like? |
| 15:52:49 | NetAmp | kinda short so I've heard(?) |
| 15:53:05 | George- | would it be longer than my laptop's? |
| 15:53:08 | George- | (5 hours?) |
| 15:53:31 | NetAmp | I guess not... at least not with the backlight on |
| 15:53:39 | ljp | depends on what your doing with it.. |
| 15:53:49 | NetAmp | or continuously playing MP3's ;) |
| 15:53:54 | George- | hehe |
| 15:53:57 | George- | hmm |
| 15:53:58 | ljp | you mean the frontlight... ? |
| 15:54:00 | George- | stupid, isn't it? |
| 15:54:01 | George- | ;) |
| 15:54:06 | NetAmp | ljp: whoops |
| 15:54:10 | George- | My laptop has a longer batt life than the Z :) |
| 15:54:14 | NetAmp | slight technical error there |
| 15:54:19 | NetAmp | ;) |
| 15:54:24 | ljp | thats ok.. lots of people do that... |
| 15:54:59 | ljp | George: but ya can't stick your laptop in your shirt pocket... |
| 15:55:10 | NetAmp | I don't think that'd feel nice? |
| 15:55:16 | NetAmp | a laptop in your shirt... |
| 15:55:22 | NetAmp | heh |
| 15:55:25 | ljp | have to have BIG pockets |
| 15:56:02 | George- | ljp: yeh, well ;) |
| 16:00:20 | NetAmp | I think I'll wait a bit longer anyhow |
| 16:00:45 | NetAmp | since XScale is announced as not being that much more expensive than normal arm |
| 16:00:55 | NetAmp | but it's at least twice as fast |
| 16:03:07 | | mark: huh? |
| 16:03:07 | mark | ibot: oz 9.2 |
| 16:03:14 | | NetAmp: huh? |
| 16:03:14 | NetAmp | ibot: oz |
| 16:03:18 | | i guess openzaurus is a Community version of the operating environment for the Sharp Zaurus SL-5x00[d] PDA. See http://openzaurus.sf.net/. or http://openzaurus.sf.net/feeds/3.0/ |
| 16:03:18 | NetAmp | ibot: openzaurus |
| 16:03:27 | mark | the 9.2 isn't on s ourceforge |
| 16:03:32 | NetAmp | hm |
| 16:03:45 | mark | and i cant remember where c hris said it was |
| 16:04:16 | NetAmp | me neither :S |
| 16:06:08 | ljp | heheh I do.. |
| 16:06:35 | ljp | I'll give it to ya if you know the secret code words |
| 16:06:57 | NetAmp | please lord ljp give it to us, your humble worshippers? |
| 16:07:01 | NetAmp | (is that enough? :P) |
| 16:07:02 | NetAmp | :P |
| 16:07:05 | NetAmp | *muhaha* |
| 16:07:55 | ljp | hmmmm... thats close... |
| 16:07:58 | NetAmp | *lol* |
| 16:08:20 | NetAmp | now you'll have to do the rest on your own mark ;) |
| 16:08:24 | NetAmp | I gotta go eat dinner |
| 16:08:25 | NetAmp | Cya |
| 16:08:27 | NetAmp | heh |
| 16:08:29 | mark | NetAmp: heh, i got it |
| 16:08:30 | mark | bye |
| 16:08:40 | ljp | http://geezer.umgllc.net/kergoth/ |
| 17:04:45 | W|GGL|T | is back (gone 10:21:28) |
| 18:01:56 | zecke | hi |
| 18:08:50 | | 'zaurus' is 0% lame, zecke |
| 18:08:50 | zecke | ibot nickometer zaurus |
| 18:09:02 | | zaurus is at http://developer.sharpsec.com/index.cfm |
| 18:09:02 | zecke | ibot zaurus |
| 18:09:10 | | i heard opie was the Open Palmtop Integrated Environment. More info can be found at http://opie.handhelds.org or in the #opie channel. |
| 18:09:10 | zecke | ibot opie |
| 19:34:12 | scanline | is away: insanity is upon us |
| 19:46:46 | MasterYoda | sup dudes. |
| 19:49:33 | mark | hi MasterYoda |
| 19:49:37 | mark | interesting nick :) |
| 19:52:18 | MasterYoda | yeah I wanted something new |
| 19:57:35 | mark | hehe |
| 19:58:04 | Cam__ | http://archive.develooper.com/perl6-language-flow@perl.org/msg00131.html |
| 19:58:58 | mark | god its so annoying how you cant use cout and friends in qt apps |
| 19:59:31 | Cam__ | I find lots of C++ annoying.. maybe it's just me |
| 20:01:56 | mark | Cam__: heh |
| 20:06:04 | zekce | MasterYoda: ?? |
| 20:06:08 | zekce | mark even |
| 20:06:48 | MasterYoda | ya |
| 20:08:21 | zekce | MasterYoda: auto tab doesn't have mind focus. Sorry.. |
| 20:16:10 | tux_mike | whee! |
| 20:16:22 | Speedy2 | yo |
| 20:16:37 | tux_mike | hey |
| 20:16:44 | Speedy2 | What's up tux_mike? |
| 20:16:49 | tux_mike | nothin really |
| 20:16:58 | Speedy2 | Got a Z? |
| 20:17:32 | tux_mike | yah |
| 20:17:35 | Speedy2 | What you think? |
| 20:17:41 | Speedy2 | How's the battery life? |
| 20:18:02 | tux_mike | it's about 3-4 hr the way i use it. |
| 20:18:14 | Speedy2 | How do you use it? |
| 20:18:25 | Speedy2 | MP3s and stuff? |
| 20:18:55 | tux_mike | nope, mostly note taking, some internet, offline html viewing. pda stuff |
| 20:19:16 | Speedy2 | Note taking via keyboard or handwriting? |
| 20:19:21 | tux_mike | yes |
| 20:20:10 | Speedy2 | heh |
| 20:20:11 | Speedy2 | Both? |
| 20:20:26 | tux_mike | yah |
| 20:20:51 | Speedy2 | How usable is the keyboard? |
| 20:20:59 | Speedy2 | Did you get a developer unit or did you get one new? |
| 20:22:12 | tux_mike | developer. i've had it since late december |
| 20:23:16 | Speedy2 | Do you like it overall? |
| 20:32:37 | Speedy2 | re |
| 20:44:25 | hunger | AAAARRRRGGGGGGGG!!!!! |
| 20:45:20 | Speedy2 | ? |
| 20:45:21 | hunger | Sorry for that, but I had to do it. Just wasted 2 weeks on building gcc and all because some --enable-target-optspace! |
| 20:45:29 | Speedy2 | Why are you building gcc? |
| 20:45:37 | Speedy2 | For ARM cross-toolchain? |
| 20:45:38 | hunger | That option breaks building gcc! |
| 20:45:43 | Speedy2 | You can get pre-built versions |
| 20:45:44 | hunger | nods. |
| 20:45:51 | Speedy2 | Use pre-built ones |
| 20:45:52 | Speedy2 | They work |
| 20:45:54 | Speedy2 | "." |
| 20:46:05 | hunger | Speedy2: They don't:-( |
| 20:46:08 | Speedy2 | uhhh |
| 20:46:11 | Speedy2 | Which ones did you try? |
| 20:46:16 | Speedy2 | I used prebuilt ones for many months |
| 20:46:23 | Speedy2 | When I ported Linux kernel to custom StrongARM hardware |
| 20:46:29 | Speedy2 | I *know* they worked |
| 20:46:32 | hunger | Speedy2: The one from Sharp's developer site. Too old for the code I need:-( |
| 20:46:40 | Speedy2 | 2.95.2 was the last I tried |
| 20:46:45 | Speedy2 | hrm |
| 20:46:46 | Speedy2 | Odd |
| 20:46:51 | Speedy2 | What are you trying to compile? |
| 20:46:56 | Speedy2 | I was able to compile 2.4x series kernels |
| 20:47:20 | hunger | Speedy2: Porting the kernel is easy, that's 'just' C. C++ is a bit diffrent as the STL-support gets better for each version of gcc. |
| 20:47:27 | Speedy2 | Jesus |
| 20:47:28 | Speedy2 | C++ ? |
| 20:47:31 | Speedy2 | You're asking for trouble. |
| 20:47:33 | hunger | nods. |
| 20:47:37 | Speedy2 | runs away |
| 20:47:40 | Speedy2 | runs away fast |
| 20:48:16 | hunger | Speedy2: C++ is much nicer to work with then C actually. It's just that g++ sucked. It's OK now with the 3.x series though. |
| 20:48:23 | Speedy2 | C++ is not nicer to work with |
| 20:48:23 | Speedy2 | Well |
| 20:48:28 | Speedy2 | Depends on what you're doing |
| 20:48:33 | Speedy2 | For all the things I do, C is perfect |
| 20:48:44 | Speedy2 | In fact, I want to create C-- to scale down a few things |
| 20:48:45 | hunger | Speedy2: Believe me, it is once you accept that it's not C with classes:-) |
| 20:48:50 | Speedy2 | Sorry |
| 20:48:54 | Speedy2 | I do embedded work |
| 20:48:56 | Speedy2 | And C++ is not suitable |
| 20:49:19 | hunger | Speedy2: Possible. C++ is a tool. Not eavery tool fits every task. |
| 20:49:52 | Speedy2 | So how do you like your Z? |
| 20:50:29 | hunger | Speedy2: I love the hardware. The software could use soem improvements. But then I don't run QT much anyway. |
| 20:50:44 | Speedy2 | It's not too big? i.e. fits in pocket OK? |
| 20:51:24 | hunger | Speedy2: The Z is a bit longer then the iPaq. The rest is the same as the ipaq without a sleve. |
| 20:51:44 | hunger | Speedy2: ...which is need as you have 2 slots in the Z. |
| 20:51:46 | Speedy2 | Keyboard is easy to type on? |
| 20:51:59 | Speedy2 | Yeah, iPaq's lack of expansion is stupid |
| 20:52:05 | hunger | Speedy2: Depends. |
| 20:52:38 | whardier | oobadooba |
| 20:52:43 | hunger | Speedy2: It's enough for starting sshd. But then I have a keyboard for about 80USD. |
| 20:52:54 | Speedy2 | An external keyboard? |
| 20:53:04 | hunger | Speedy2: The cheap keyboards suck... |
| 20:53:30 | hunger | Speedy2: Nope, on my desktop. I was just mentioning it to make clear that you should take anything I say wrt keyboards with a grain of salt. |
| 20:53:39 | whardier | aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaloha |
| 20:53:44 | Speedy2 | Oh, I got you |
| 20:53:55 | hunger | Speedy2: The screen is really nice. |
| 20:55:10 | Speedy2 | I bet |
| 20:55:13 | hunger | Speedy2: As I said: The hardware is really cool! |
| 20:55:49 | Speedy2 | How much you pay? |
| 20:55:50 | Speedy2 | $500 |
| 20:55:51 | Speedy2 | ? |
| 20:56:03 | hunger | Speedy2: More:-( 600EUR |
| 20:56:26 | Speedy2 | Wow |
| 20:56:29 | Speedy2 | Tres expensive |
| 20:56:39 | hunger | Speedy2: Then I got a bunch of extras to make defelopment work nicer: Ethernet card, CF card (for flashing), SD card for data. |
| 20:56:47 | hunger | Speedy2: Well, that's the price:-( |
| 20:56:54 | Speedy2 | yeow |
| 20:57:05 | Speedy2 | I wish they did dual CF instead of CF + SD |
| 20:57:43 | hunger | Speedy2: SD is *MUCH* smaller! I doubt you could do 2x CF without increasing the size. |
| 20:58:00 | Speedy2 | Yeah, I'd still prefer CF though |
| 20:58:06 | Speedy2 | One type card, one reader, etc |
| 20:58:30 | hunger | Speedy2: Agreed. |
| 20:58:56 | Speedy2 | I guess I could hack it in |
| 20:59:02 | Speedy2 | Just need a little glue logic |
| 20:59:29 | hunger | Speedy2: If the size does not increase:-) |
| 20:59:32 | Speedy2 | It's the casing and stuff |
| 20:59:33 | Speedy2 | yea |
| 20:59:58 | Speedy2 | That really sux because I'd like to get a wireless Ethernet CF card for it |
| 21:00:05 | Speedy2 | So I could dock without messing with USB |
| 21:00:09 | Speedy2 | USB / serial |
| 21:00:35 | hunger | Speedy2: Get a SD card in additon to CF. |
| 21:00:46 | hunger | Speedy2: You'll still need a CF for flashing though:-( |
| 21:00:46 | Speedy2 | bah |
| 21:00:52 | Speedy2 | For flashing?? |
| 21:00:53 | Speedy2 | ?? |
| 21:01:07 | Speedy2 | Flashing new ROM image? |
| 21:01:40 | hunger | Yeap. That only works from a CF card. |
| 21:01:43 | Speedy2 | Bah |
| 21:01:47 | Speedy2 | I'd write my own Flash then |
| 21:01:52 | Speedy2 | One that streams over serial or something |
| 21:01:58 | Speedy2 | With 32MB or 64MB RAM |
| 21:02:07 | Speedy2 | You shouldn't have to mess with CF flashing |
| 21:02:27 | hunger | Do that:-) I won't mind having that. |
| 21:02:37 | Speedy2 | I need a Z first |
| 21:02:39 | hunger | Speedy2: On the other hand: CF flashing works nicely. |
| 21:06:01 | Speedy2 | Wish the Zs weren't so expensive |
| 21:06:13 | hunger | Speedy2: Agreed again:-) |
| 21:07:10 | Speedy2 | When did you get yours? |
| 21:07:32 | hunger | Speedy2: www.xtops.de |
| 21:07:57 | hunger | Speedy2: They only stock the german one though. Dunno wether that's something for you. |
| 21:07:58 | Speedy2 | When <-- days/months ago |
| 21:08:09 | hunger | Speedy2: 4 weeks or so. |
| 21:08:36 | Speedy2 | ah |
| 21:11:22 | Speedy2 | Do you have any other PDAs? |
| 21:13:21 | hunger | Speedy2: Nope. I know enough people with other PDAs though;-) |
| 21:13:52 | Speedy2 | hah |
| 21:13:59 | Speedy2 | I had Newton MP2100's |
| 21:14:03 | Speedy2 | Too big |
| 21:14:12 | hunger | Speedy2: My alltime favourite 'PDA' is still the Apple newton. |
| 21:14:22 | Speedy2 | I sold my Newtons last week |
| 21:14:27 | hunger | Speedy2: It's a bit big, but appart from that... |
| 21:14:42 | Speedy2 | Hey, I can get some more, want to trade?! ;) |
| 21:14:59 | [DrEvil] | is the SD card faster than MMC in the Z? I have heard conflicting stories |
| 21:15:08 | hunger | Speedy2: Nope. I'm happy with my Z: |
| 21:15:20 | hunger | Speedy2: A complete linux box in my palm. All I need. |
| 21:15:45 | Speedy2 | Hah |
| 21:15:51 | Speedy2 | Linux makes not a good PDA OS |
| 21:16:43 | [DrEvil] | Linux makes a good pocket computer OS |
| 21:16:55 | tux_mike | linux makes a good os for anything |
| 21:16:58 | Speedy2 | No |
| 21:17:04 | tux_mike | it's what you tie into it that causes problems |
| 21:17:19 | Speedy2 | Linux is NOT a good OS for anything |
| 21:17:31 | hunger | Speedy2: I disagree. It's stable, so it's OK for a foundation. |
| 21:17:40 | Speedy2 | I disagree |
| 21:17:43 | tux_mike | Speedy2: why do you say that? |
| 21:17:46 | Speedy2 | Just because it's stable doesn't mean it fits everything |
| 21:17:51 | hunger | Speedy2: I guess most people here disagree with that last statement:-) |
| 21:17:58 | Speedy2 | Because it isn't *meant* for embedded use |
| 21:18:07 | Speedy2 | eCos is a much better free embedded OS |
| 21:18:10 | Speedy2 | Open Source, etc. |
| 21:18:21 | Speedy2 | Linux has things handhelds don't need |
| 21:18:33 | Speedy2 | Yeah, but none of you have actually ported Linux to StrongARM hardware |
| 21:18:38 | Speedy2 | I've done that, so I've seen it's guts |
| 21:18:43 | whardier | yoyoyo snoop whardier in the house! |
| 21:18:46 | hunger | Speedy2: I don't consider my Z an embedded device. For me it's a highly portable computer. |
| 21:19:09 | hunger | Speedy2: And I use Linux everywhere else, so I'm very happy with using it on the Z too. |
| 21:21:02 | hunger | Speedy2: Is the problem with the StrongARM hardware or with the embedded device's limitations (little RAM, etc)? |
| 21:21:10 | Speedy2 | It's a problem with the OS |
| 21:21:11 | Speedy2 | heh |
| 21:21:19 | Speedy2 | StrongARM hardware itself is fine |
| 21:21:25 | Speedy2 | It's hard to explain without getting into details |
| 21:21:40 | hunger | Speedy2: Please do get into details:-) |
| 21:21:44 | Speedy2 | But there are other OSes more suited for this kind of stuff |
| 21:22:02 | ljp | heh like windows?!? |
| 21:22:03 | Speedy2 | The only thing Linux really "offers" is the ability to leverage existing code |
| 21:22:10 | Speedy2 | ljp: Uhh, no |
| 21:22:29 | hunger | Speedy2: Do you have a problem with Linux per se or just with linux on embedded devices? |
| 21:22:39 | Speedy2 | It's was not designed for embedded use, so it uses a lot of RAM (at least 1MByte), needs a decent amount of ROM space (1MByte or more), etc |
| 21:22:45 | Speedy2 | hunger: For use in embedded devices, not in general |
| 21:22:50 | Speedy2 | I think it makes a very decent server OS |
| 21:22:55 | Speedy2 | Or a good development OS |
| 21:23:10 | Speedy2 | But I don't find it works well as a desktop OS or as an embedded OS |
| 21:23:24 | hunger | Speedy2: You might be right there:-) |
| 21:23:35 | [DrEvil] | heh |
| 21:23:50 | ljp | hmm.. mine seems to work fine as an embedded OS AND a desktop OS.. |
| 21:23:50 | [DrEvil] | the WatchGuard firebox uses Linux on an 8meg flash |
| 21:24:17 | hunger | Speedy2: But then with hte speed of development it's only a question of time till a PDA has so much RAm that the size of Linux is not a problem anymore. |
| 21:24:25 | Speedy2 | DrEvil: eCos can do TCP/IP, networking, + bunch of other stuff in <200KBytes of ROM, 100KBytes of RAM |
| 21:24:55 | ljp | whoopie do.. how apss and developers develop for... what its called eCos? |
| 21:24:58 | [DrEvil] | wgrd had 3 partitions on that flash...only one is in use at a time |
| 21:24:58 | mark | zecke: well you can use it, but it doesn't get dumped to a console until QPEApplication.exec() has returned |
| 21:25:01 | Speedy2 | hunger: Yeah, that's the M$ way of thinking -- just throw more powerful hardware until inefficiences of the software melt away |
| 21:25:05 | hunger | Speedy2: In fact I think it works on the Z surprisingly well. I dunno about other PDA-OSes, but I'm sure there are OSes out there better suited for PDAs. |
| 21:25:08 | Speedy2 | ljp: www.redhat.com |
| 21:25:24 | Speedy2 | ljp: www.redhat.com, search for eCos...guess what? Developers can use Linux or Windows |
| 21:25:26 | Speedy2 | amazing. |
| 21:25:28 | [DrEvil] | personally I don't think the Z is an everyman's PDA |
| 21:25:42 | [DrEvil] | neither is a PPC |
| 21:26:05 | Speedy2 | I was looking to get a Z to set it up to run different softare. I like the hardware. |
| 21:26:09 | Speedy2 | And I like the fact that it's not Compaq |
| 21:26:10 | Speedy2 | heh |
| 21:26:19 | [DrEvil] | the Z reminds me of my Zoomer |
| 21:26:21 | hunger | Speedy2: I agree that throwing HW at a problem is bad. But the power of hardware will rise independent of which OS it runs. |
| 21:26:25 | [DrEvil] | in it's hackability |
| 21:26:45 | dc_ | anyone here managed to crosscompile gcc> |
| 21:26:45 | dc_ | ? |
| 21:26:55 | Speedy2 | hunger: Agreed, but you obviously see my point, so I think we're saying the same thing essentially |
| 21:27:13 | hunger | Speedy2: At some point people will want the power of linux or something simular on those devices. |
| 21:27:24 | Speedy2 | dc_: Cross-compile gcc from what to what? Yes, I've built a cross-hosted PC-Linux version of ARM GCC |
| 21:27:33 | dc_ | Speedy2: oh cool. |
| 21:27:50 | Speedy2 | hunger: Yeah, what "power" ? Linux itself doesn't offer all that much power. Is power the ability to run a bash console |
| 21:27:50 | Speedy2 | ? |
| 21:27:54 | dc_ | Speedy2: well. I can't get mine to see my arm-linux-as asslembler I compiled |
| 21:28:07 | Speedy2 | dc_: Might I suggest you get a pre-built toolchain? It's *MUCH* easier |
| 21:28:08 | hunger | Speedy2: By the way: I am not using the QT environment much, I just use Linux as a base for porting/writing my own stuff:-) |
| 21:28:08 | dc_ | Speedy2: is there a configure option to make it see it? |
| 21:28:23 | dc_ | Speedy2: what's the fun in that? |
| 21:28:25 | dc_ | ;D |
| 21:28:32 | Speedy2 | hunger: Understood. But honestly, Linux isn't the only OS that would give that ability. |
| 21:28:52 | Speedy2 | dc_: It took me two weeks to get it all figured out...seriously, can you get a pre-built toolchain? |
| 21:28:55 | Speedy2 | I can give you an URL |
| 21:29:08 | dc_ | Speedy2: :/ |
| 21:29:11 | dc_ | Speedy2: if you like. |
| 21:29:13 | Speedy2 | Well |
| 21:29:21 | dc_ | Speedy2: I spose, it whoudl be easier. |
| 21:29:24 | Speedy2 | If you're still bent on building... |
| 21:29:28 | hunger | Speedy2: Agreed:-) But that's the OS I know best, where the development environemnt is free, etc. |
| 21:29:30 | dc_ | Speedy2: is there a --with-assembler or something for gcc? |
| 21:29:41 | dc_ | Speedy2: I'm still bent.. |
| 21:29:44 | Speedy2 | dc_: So you try to compile something and it won't invoke the ARM assembler? |
| 21:29:49 | Speedy2 | Does arm-linux-as work? |
| 21:29:51 | ljp | dc: the fun in that is tha you'll be spending time working on your OWN code.. not trying to set up the blasted cross compiler |
| 21:29:53 | Speedy2 | arm-linux-as --version |
| 21:30:17 | dc_ | dctanner@gekk:~$ /skiff/local/bin/arm-linux-as --version |
| 21:30:17 | dc_ | GNU assembler 2.12 |
| 21:30:32 | hunger | dc_: I'm trying to add 'make toolchain' to OZ. |
| 21:30:44 | dc_ | hunger: :) |
| 21:30:53 | Speedy2 | dc_: Hrm. Bizarre! |
| 21:30:53 | dc_ | hunger: where are you upto? |
| 21:30:56 | Speedy2 | arm-linux-gcc --version |
| 21:31:05 | dc_ | checking what assembler to use... |
| 21:31:06 | dc_ | checking what nm to use... nm |
| 21:31:12 | hunger | dc_: So you can build the complete OZ without having to get additional binaries. |
| 21:31:26 | dc_ | Speedy2: I don't have arm-linux-gcc yet, I'm trying to compile it :} |
| 21:31:35 | hunger | dc_: I think I'm nearly done;-) Give me a few more hours to get rid of some quirks. |
| 21:31:36 | Speedy2 | ah. |
| 21:31:45 | dc_ | hunger: heh, cool. |
| 21:31:51 | Speedy2 | dc_: Umm, seriously, give up |
| 21:31:59 | dc_ | cries |
| 21:32:00 | hunger | dc_: And a few more so kergoth can look over the stuff and commit it:-) |
| 21:32:07 | dc_ | Speedy2: :/ |
| 21:32:15 | dc_ | Speedy2: there has to be a way. |
| 21:32:22 | dc_ | Speedy2: why whould it do that> |
| 21:32:38 | Speedy2 | ftp://ftp.netwinder.org/users/c/chagas/arm-linux-cross/ |
| 21:32:41 | Speedy2 | Go there |
| 21:32:43 | Twiun | Who's behind New Breed Software again? |
| 21:32:51 | Speedy2 | And if the tools are too old, then you can get the XScale tools |
| 21:33:03 | ljp | twuin: kendrick |
| 21:33:09 | dc_ | doesn't want rpms :{ |
| 21:33:12 | Speedy2 | DC: |
| 21:33:16 | Speedy2 | There are SPRMS |
| 21:33:21 | Speedy2 | So you have all the glorious source |
| 21:33:22 | dc_ | Speedy2: gcc 2.9.2! |
| 21:33:25 | mark | Twiun: kendrick |
| 21:33:30 | Speedy2 | Yeah, that too old for you? |
| 21:33:35 | dc_ | Speedy2: indeed. |
| 21:33:36 | Speedy2 | You need a 3.xx level? |
| 21:33:37 | Speedy2 | ok |
| 21:33:37 | dc_ | Speedy2: :/ |
| 21:33:40 | Speedy2 | one sec |
| 21:33:42 | dc_ | Speedy2: it whould help |
| 21:33:49 | Twiun | ljp, mark: Thanks ;-) I wanna quiz him on that zaurus-sdldoom port of his thats languishing untouched on his ftp site |
| 21:34:16 | Twiun | it loads the text bits fine then segfaults |
| 21:34:59 | Speedy2 | dc: Have you read this: http://www.armlinux.org/docs/toolchain/toolchHOWTO/t1.html |
| 21:35:00 | Speedy2 | ? |
| 21:35:07 | dc_ | Speedy2: yes |
| 21:36:20 | Speedy2 | hunger: What version does Sharp offer? |
| 21:36:37 | hunger | Speedy2: Of gcc? 2.93.2 |
| 21:36:43 | hunger | s/93/95/ |
| 21:36:52 | Speedy2 | What's latest? 3.0.1? |
| 21:37:11 | hunger | Speedy2: Either 2.95.3 (debian has 2.95.4) or 3.0.4 |
| 21:37:39 | hunger | Speedy2: 3.x can be a bit problematic with regards to C++, so I'm going for debain's 2.95.4 |
| 21:38:48 | Speedy2 | dc_: What makes 2.95.2 not work for you? |
| 21:39:42 | dc_ | Speedy2: some apps I need to compile won't on 2.95.2 |
| 21:39:47 | hunger | Speedy2: I guess some C++ code:-( |
| 21:39:53 | Speedy2 | bah |
| 21:40:00 | dc_ | ack |
| 21:40:10 | Speedy2 | dc_: Well all the pre-built ones are 2.95.2/3 |
| 21:40:23 | Speedy2 | If you've read the toolchain guide and you're still stuck...sorry man |
| 21:40:23 | dc_ | Speedy2: even editing the makefile and changing it to arm-linux-as doesn't work |
| 21:40:39 | hunger | dc_: What are you trying to do? |
| 21:40:49 | dc_ | hunger: compile gcc 3.0.3 |
| 21:40:56 | dc_ | hunger: I've got binutils compiled |
| 21:41:00 | hunger | dc_: Why not 3.0.4? |
| 21:41:15 | dc_ | hunger: but gcc configure doesn't see the arm-linux-* tools |
| 21:41:24 | dc_ | hunger: :/ |
| 21:41:29 | hunger | dc_: It shouldn't. |
| 21:41:33 | dc_ | hunger: I just had gcc 3.0.3 lying around |
| 21:41:35 | dc_ | hunger: oh? |
| 21:41:45 | hunger | dc_: You are not crosscompiling gcc, you are building a crosscompiler. |
| 21:41:45 | dc_ | hunger: it should use my i686 ones? |
| 21:42:08 | hunger | dc_: The code will ron on x86, won't it? So it should use the x86 stuff. |
| 21:42:17 | dc_ | hunger: okay. |
| 21:42:25 | dc_ | hunger: well, it's not even finding as then |
| 21:43:23 | hunger | dc_: I'm building 2.95.4 right now. |
| 21:43:42 | hunger | dc_: Do you want my mk-files for OZ? |
| 21:44:08 | hunger | dc_: Maybe they work with 3.0.4 too (with a bit of hacking) or at least give you a hint on what's going wrong. |
| 21:46:16 | dc_ | hunger: arg |
| 21:46:19 | dc_ | I need to sleep now |
| 21:47:04 | hunger | dc_: Good night! And good luck with gcc! Took me AGES to get as far as I am now with building it! |
| 23:16:17 | kergoth | greetings |
| 23:16:37 | ljp | hey kergoth |
| 23:16:49 | kergoth | hey ljp. how goes it |
| 23:17:08 | ljp | good... Harlekin came up with a killer opie background |
| 23:17:17 | kergoth | i saw the commit... havent taken a look yet tho |
| 23:17:31 | kergoth | did tille manage to nail down some of the oipkg quirks? |
| 23:17:34 | ljp | and I noticed.. in 9.2 on a full suspend.. time is getting set bacvk to utc |
| 23:17:44 | ljp | ya.. those duplicate entries are gone |
| 23:17:54 | kergoth | hmm. define 'full suspend'.. i havent seen it on suspend.. |
| 23:17:58 | kergoth | ah nice.. |
| 23:18:05 | ljp | like overnight susoend |
| 23:18:13 | kergoth | hmmm weird |
| 23:18:18 | kergoth | i'll investigate |
| 23:18:18 | kergoth | brb |
