| 00:23:36 | nasa | Hello |
| 00:34:49 | NeoTron | hm |
| 00:37:26 | ljp | hrmm |
| 00:38:46 | [trebb] | well... |
| 00:40:40 | kendrick2 | re |
| 00:40:46 | Fastolfe | hello fellow human beings ! |
| 00:40:51 | kendrick2 | hehe |
| 00:40:53 | kendrick2 | wakes up |
| 00:41:12 | kendrick2 | minus a few hours of awakeness around 12pm today, i was in bed for FIFTEEN HOURS |
| 00:41:25 | fusion94 | slacker |
| 00:41:47 | Fastolfe | i'd say |
| 00:41:48 | Fastolfe | :) |
| 00:42:00 | kendrick2 | :^P |
| 00:42:08 | kendrick2 | i must be sick or something |
| 00:42:22 | tux_mike | iesh |
| 00:42:32 | tux_mike | i only got 7 hours of sleep :P |
| 00:42:51 | kendrick2 | so any word on sdl-for-zaurus? :) |
| 00:42:52 | kendrick2 | drools |
| 00:43:00 | ljp | hey there Mr. IOCCC |
| 00:43:20 | kendrick2 | ? |
| 00:43:48 | Fastolfe | howdy mister |
| 00:44:01 | kendrick2 | ah |
| 00:44:06 | ljp | kendrick: we have a star amongst us |
| 00:44:18 | iocccstud | yeah, his name is bill :) |
| 00:44:29 | kendrick2 | is confuzzled |
| 00:44:33 | iocccstud | lol |
| 00:44:58 | iocccstud | ljp: man you have no idea ... money, fame, women, luxurious hotels |
| 00:45:01 | iocccstud | ljp: it's just too much |
| 00:45:55 | ljp | ohh.. thats just because you work at lineo! |
| 00:46:25 | iocccstud | well, there's that too |
| 00:46:29 | iocccstud | :) |
| 00:46:48 | iocccstud | bill, you still confuzzled ? |
| 00:47:09 | kendrick2 | so, you're suddenly famous, or? |
| 00:47:18 | iocccstud | heh |
| 00:47:39 | iocccstud | I've probably entered a lot of potential employer's blacklist too |
| 00:47:49 | iocccstud | kendrick2: www.ioccc.org/whowon.html |
| 00:49:17 | kendrick2 | forgets fastolfe's real name :) |
| 00:49:21 | kendrick2 | pierre? |
| 00:49:42 | kendrick2 | anyway - congrats :) |
| 00:49:42 | iocccstud | yep |
| 00:49:47 | iocccstud | thanks |
| 00:50:21 | iocccstud | they don't give away big tvs and zaurii tho |
| 00:50:25 | iocccstud | just crummy T-sirts |
| 00:50:53 | kendrick2 | like, t-shirts someone ate cookies in? |
| 00:50:58 | iocccstud | lol |
| 00:51:07 | iocccstud | I dunno what it'll be |
| 00:51:19 | iocccstud | "I do crappy C code !" |
| 00:51:20 | iocccstud | :)) |
| 00:51:24 | kendrick2 | hehe |
| 00:51:33 | ljp | hehehe |
| 00:51:58 | kendrick2 | "phear++; my[c]c.ode();" |
| 00:52:06 | iocccstud | there's gotta be a market for it, like if Microsoft decides to make GPL apps but not give away the source code while giving away the source code |
| 00:53:23 | ljp | that'd be a good one |
| 00:54:04 | kendrick2 | tries ljp's texteditor :) |
| 00:55:04 | ljp | heh- good luck. Not responsible for loss of data |
| 00:55:14 | iocccstud | disclaimers are good |
| 00:55:15 | iocccstud | :) |
| 00:56:22 | ljp | I fear that one email- "I tried your app 'so and so' and now my computer's leaking blue smoke" |
| 00:56:25 | kendrick2 | why, what's wrong with it!? |
| 00:56:32 | ljp | nothing |
| 00:56:44 | kendrick2 | tell me!!! |
| 00:57:00 | ljp | works fine |
| 00:57:01 | ljp | hehehe.. nothing should be wrong with it |
| 00:57:15 | iocccstud | ljp: I fear emails saying "I d/l your app and it fucking don't work, and you suck dinosaur dicks, and the government should castrate you" |
| 00:57:20 | iocccstud | I get a lot of these |
| 00:57:38 | iocccstud | especially since yesterday :) |
| 00:57:52 | ljp | hmmm.. you must write some obfuscated code |
| 00:57:56 | fusion94 | iocccstud: i can write a quick script to send you more of those if you'd like |
| 00:58:20 | iocccstud | is a procmailrc super-hero and cannot be hurt by mere scripts |
| 00:58:44 | fusion94 | heh....wanna bet ? |
| 00:59:04 | ljp | 's cat is staring out the window at the local skateboard gang |
| 00:59:08 | iocccstud | heh, unless you have a lot of accounts and you fire them all at once, I don't think so |
| 00:59:48 | NeoTron | I have multisegmented code and it seems like gdb doesn't handle it correctly. damn PalmOS is annoying! |
| 00:59:49 | ljp | 's waiting for kendricks bug report |
| 00:59:52 | NeoTron | ...to code for... |
| 00:59:53 | kendrick2 | HAHAHA |
| 01:00:03 | kendrick2 | ljp - it should ahve a button in the browser for opening the Documents/Text directory |
| 01:00:15 | fusion94 | iocccstud: i'll just send them from the sourceforge mailserver with valid accounts |
| 01:00:21 | ljp | well. it goes Home now |
| 01:00:24 | iocccstud | kendrick2: that would make qtopia more usable, that's against the qpe religion |
| 01:00:42 | ljp | kendrick: I was going to do that |
| 01:00:43 | iocccstud | fusion94: you are evil. I shall say a little prayer now |
| 01:00:43 | tux_mike | fast: do you know the range on a Class 2 laser? |
| 01:00:49 | fusion94 | iocccstud: :P |
| 01:00:54 | kendrick2 | and it should hide ".desktop" files ;) |
| 01:01:05 | iocccstud | tux_mike: class 2 ? ain't much, isn't it that's used in CD players ? |
| 01:01:14 | ljp | but what if you want to edit a .desktop file? |
| 01:01:24 | tux_mike | fast: i think so. |
| 01:01:34 | kendrick2 | unhide. DUH! |
| 01:01:40 | iocccstud | tux_mike: is it in visible bands ? |
| 01:02:08 | kendrick2 | hmm... i like, but the 'open' interface (ie, just showing me all of the text files i've made so far) is nicer in the qtopia one |
| 01:02:19 | ljp | oh- like a hide hidden files button.. |
| 01:02:20 | tux_mike | not entirely sure |
| 01:02:29 | tux_mike | i think i've seen class 2 red lasers |
| 01:02:35 | iocccstud | tux_mike: the power of a laser has little to do with its range. What counts is its dispersion |
| 01:02:57 | iocccstud | tux_mike: class 2 lasers are defocused (they have like a 30 deg cone) |
| 01:03:28 | iocccstud | tux_mike: I did a 12mile contact with a laser pointer with a better optic than the stock thing, twas only 3mW |
| 01:03:34 | kendrick2 | ljp - uh.. file-open dialogue is movable! |
| 01:03:55 | kendrick2 | and resizable (and the buttons disappear if you shrink it :) ) |
| 01:04:09 | kendrick2 | other than that, it looks to be a lot more useful |
| 01:04:12 | iocccstud | tux_mike: it's for your laser tag project ? |
| 01:04:16 | tux_mike | hrm... well, on this safety guide, i just saw that under the class 2 it says laser pointers... even though i'm almost 100% sure they are class 3a |
| 01:04:18 | tux_mike | yah |
| 01:04:23 | tux_mike | i'm looking into eye protection. |
| 01:04:31 | tux_mike | i'd like to find something, even if i use red |
| 01:04:47 | tux_mike | i like my eyes :) |
| 01:05:21 | fusion94 | tux_mike: just get yourself a couple of pirate patches |
| 01:05:30 | iocccstud | for that project you'll probably want the laser to disperse on purpose, so you can pick up the signal on the target. I'd say an illumination circle with a 30cm diameter at 5m would be good |
| 01:05:50 | iocccstud | so you need more power |
| 01:05:58 | iocccstud | but it's not dangerous because it's not focused |
| 01:06:10 | tux_mike | yah, i'm thinking though on the normal handguns no more than 1-2 degrees. 20-30 on a shotgun :) |
| 01:06:22 | iocccstud | what counts is the number of mW/mm2 you deliver to a retina |
| 01:06:34 | kendrick2 | ok - i need to run |
| 01:06:34 | tux_mike | ok |
| 01:06:37 | kendrick2 | cya later all! |
| 01:07:00 | tux_mike | bye kendrick2 |
| 01:07:03 | iocccstud | tux_mike: if you paint your target with a zone that's too small, it'll never reach the phototransistor (or whatever you use)_ |
| 01:07:07 | iocccstud | seeya mister |
| 01:07:17 | tux_mike | hrm... |
| 01:07:39 | tux_mike | i wish i had some geometric tools, protractor, ruler, etc :) |
| 01:07:51 | iocccstud | what for ? :) |
| 01:08:18 | NeoTron | "At present, GDB won't work well with applications with multiple code resources" <--- oh joy! |
| 01:08:18 | tux_mike | to figure out how much of an angle i need :) |
| 01:08:23 | tux_mike | do a scale drawing |
| 01:08:34 | iocccstud | well, that's easy w/o drawings |
| 01:08:54 | tux_mike | i'm not good at geometry without drawings. |
| 01:09:13 | iocccstud | figure out the size of the circle on your target at a certain distance, and consider that a arc of the circle (radius == the distance) |
| 01:09:42 | iocccstud | then divide the size of the circle by the perimeter, and multiply by 360 |
| 01:09:44 | iocccstud | voila |
| 01:09:49 | iocccstud | so |
| 01:09:51 | tux_mike | 's head spins :) |
| 01:09:54 | iocccstud | for example |
| 01:10:05 | iocccstud | 30cm illumination circle at 5m distance |
| 01:10:23 | iocccstud | 5*PI~=16m |
| 01:10:31 | iocccstud | 30cm == 0.3m |
| 01:10:44 | iocccstud | 0.3/16==0.0187 |
| 01:10:56 | iocccstud | 0.0187*360=6.75 |
| 01:10:57 | scanline | is away: ZzZzZzzzzz |
| 01:11:00 | iocccstud | ==6.75 degress |
| 01:11:05 | tux_mike | hrm... |
| 01:11:05 | scanline | is away: foodlike stuff, i think |
| 01:11:07 | tux_mike | ok... |
| 01:11:35 | tux_mike | little more than i thought... |
| 01:11:40 | iocccstud | yeah |
| 01:12:02 | tux_mike | but i'd like a tighter spot at 5m, i'd say more like 20cm |
| 01:12:21 | iocccstud | then redo the math with 0.2 instead of 0.3 :) |
| 01:12:32 | iocccstud | 4.5 deg |
| 01:12:48 | tux_mike | you got the answer before i pulled up my calc :) |
| 01:13:02 | iocccstud | heh |
| 01:13:32 | tux_mike | hrm... with 4.5 deg of dissapation, i wonder how far the laser will go |
| 01:14:20 | tux_mike | do you have a formula for that? |
| 01:14:29 | iocccstud | tux_mike: your theorical limit will be when the pulsed laser signal drops below the ambient light level (noise). In practical terms, the laser should be 3 to 5 time stronger |
| 01:14:44 | tux_mike | yah |
| 01:14:57 | iocccstud | a laser pointer with a power of 3mW delivers that amount over 1 to 2 mm2 |
| 01:15:15 | iocccstud | so at 5m, with a illumination circle of 20c |
| 01:15:16 | iocccstud | cm |
| 01:15:45 | iocccstud | the target is 0.12m2 |
| 01:15:53 | iocccstud | so the power drops to |
| 01:16:17 | iocccstud | crap by HP died hold on |
| 01:16:32 | tux_mike | heh |
| 01:16:42 | tux_mike | ran out of batteries? |
| 01:16:47 | iocccstud | ok |
| 01:16:50 | iocccstud | solar |
| 01:17:03 | iocccstud | 12000m2 target at 5m |
| 01:17:07 | tux_mike | i don't like solar, they always die in my room. it's rather poorly lit |
| 01:17:15 | tux_mike | 12000m2? |
| 01:17:22 | tux_mike | that seems kinda big :) |
| 01:17:35 | warmi | hi |
| 01:17:47 | iocccstud | 3mw*(2mm2/12000mm2)==5E-4 |
| 01:17:53 | iocccstud | mW/mm2 |
| 01:18:06 | iocccstud | ain't much |
| 01:18:10 | iocccstud | hi warmi |
| 01:18:44 | warmi | heh icooc: is this your first time winning ? |
| 01:18:48 | iocccstud | yeah |
| 01:19:05 | iocccstud | first time I manage to remember when to submit the entries |
| 01:19:42 | warmi | they even had a piece about it on /. |
| 01:19:54 | Fastolfe | yeah :) |
| 01:19:56 | tux_mike | any idea on a number for ambient room light? |
| 01:20:09 | Fastolfe | well, let's see :) |
| 01:20:21 | Fastolfe | 100W bulb, hanging 3 meters from the target |
| 01:20:29 | warmi | what are you doing tracer or something ? |
| 01:20:32 | Fastolfe | efficiency == 5% |
| 01:20:38 | Fastolfe | ==5W |
| 01:20:52 | Fastolfe | dispersed over the surface of the buld, say 30cm2 |
| 01:21:24 | warmi | anyone got theit Zs from Trolls yet ? |
| 01:21:40 | tux_mike | i think ljp got his |
| 01:21:55 | Fastolfe | crap calc |
| 01:22:22 | tux_mike | Fastolfe: you're lucky, you don't have to write all this stuff down. i need to do all the dimensional analasis by hand to get it right :) |
| 01:23:03 | Fastolfe | ah |
| 01:23:06 | Fastolfe | ok |
| 01:23:10 | Fastolfe | so let's see |
| 01:23:15 | Fastolfe | buld == 2cm radius |
| 01:23:17 | ljp | tux: no I had one from before |
| 01:23:29 | Fastolfe | surface == 4*PI*0.02^2 |
| 01:23:47 | warmi | Neo should be one of the firts to get it .. he is quite close to CA |
| 01:23:47 | Fastolfe | ==0.005m2 |
| 01:24:18 | Fastolfe | surface of 3m sphere == 4*PI*3^2 |
| 01:24:35 | Fastolfe | ==113m2 |
| 01:24:40 | whardier | Fine.. don't talk to me people!.. but I will let you in on this.. I am going to the bathroom.. where all my pain and suffering will drive and forge me into a single blade of vengance! YOU SHOULD HAVE KILLED ME WHEN YOU HAD THE CHANCE! |
| 01:25:05 | warmi | what did I miss ? |
| 01:25:06 | ljp | uh, Whardier- have a drink, eh? |
| 01:25:07 | Fastolfe | 113/0.005==22619 |
| 01:25:13 | Fastolfe | so |
| 01:25:31 | whardier | heh |
| 01:25:44 | Fastolfe | 100W over 0.005m2 == 4E-3W over 113m2 |
| 01:25:51 | Fastolfe | oops |
| 01:26:16 | whardier | w |
| 01:26:29 | whardier | W? |
| 01:26:31 | warmi | whardier is known to be a bit ... say melodramatic but this is some brand new stuff we talking here .. |
| 01:26:46 | Fastolfe | 100W over 0.005m2==100W over 500mm2 == .5W/mm2 |
| 01:26:47 | whardier | naw actually.. I was off at the mall |
| 01:26:51 | whardier | whats going down peeps! |
| 01:26:58 | Fastolfe | .2W/mm2 gee |
| 01:27:05 | ljp | math lesson |
| 01:27:12 | whardier | surface = pi*r^2 |
| 01:27:14 | whardier | I SEE! |
| 01:27:22 | tux_mike | did you take effeciency into effect? |
| 01:27:37 | Fastolfe | whardier sphere surface = 4*pi*r2 |
| 01:28:08 | whardier | ahha |
| 01:28:10 | Fastolfe | tux_mike: ah yes |
| 01:28:20 | Fastolfe | should grab a piece of paper really |
| 01:28:24 | whardier | but what is the surface friction coeffecient of nacho cheese! |
| 01:28:43 | Fastolfe | I knew you were still on the island ! |
| 01:28:46 | tux_mike | well, i gotta go in a min :) |
| 01:28:54 | tux_mike | but i think i see now... |
| 01:29:12 | whardier | tux_mike is getting bored.. and needs to run away now |
| 01:29:15 | Fastolfe | k |
| 01:29:24 | Fastolfe | 0.01W/mm2 on the bulb |
| 01:29:27 | Fastolfe | == |
| 01:29:42 | tux_mike | tux_mike needs to go to his friend's b-day party to do some drinkin' :) |
| 01:29:43 | Fastolfe | 4.5E-7W/mm2 on your receptor |
| 01:30:12 | ljp | nacho cheese= mc2 |
| 01:30:13 | Fastolfe | tux_mike: drinking is good |
| 01:30:17 | whardier | free space optics? |
| 01:30:18 | Fastolfe | whardier is bad |
| 01:30:22 | tux_mike | yes, yes it is |
| 01:30:24 | whardier | ok |
| 01:30:27 | whardier | just checking |
| 01:30:27 | Fastolfe | lol |
| 01:30:40 | whardier | hey |
| 01:30:42 | whardier | am not |
| 01:30:46 | tux_mike | Fastolfe: it looks like it'd be a good deal more powerful than the ambient light in a room |
| 01:30:48 | Fastolfe | nacho==4.5MJ/100k :) |
| 01:30:53 | whardier | I got my hair cut.. so now my powers are dwindled |
| 01:30:58 | Fastolfe | tux_mike: in a room yes |
| 01:30:59 | whardier | 4.5MJ! |
| 01:31:18 | tux_mike | i don't think it'd work outside in broad daylight |
| 01:31:25 | Fastolfe | tux_mike: outdoors, count on the sun delivering 1200W/m2 in broad daylight |
| 01:31:34 | tux_mike | yah |
| 01:31:40 | tux_mike | evil ball of light |
| 01:31:44 | whardier | heh |
| 01:31:48 | Fastolfe | some1 should turn it off |
| 01:31:55 | whardier | but it you have a hooded receptor.. all is gooood! |
| 01:31:56 | tux_mike | that's what night is for :) |
| 01:31:58 | Fastolfe | especially in Phoenix, bloody hot place |
| 01:32:09 | tux_mike | well, thanks fast, i go now |
| 01:32:14 | whardier | does not know what the subject is yet |
| 01:32:19 | whardier | but it looks like it is leaving |
| 01:32:21 | Fastolfe | tux_mike: that's why you need to pulse the laser beam, to give you an edge |
| 01:32:59 | Fastolfe | whardier: calculating the power of a laser diode with a 6 deg dispersion so that the signal isn't drowned in ambient light at 5 meter |
| 01:33:04 | Fastolfe | s distance |
| 01:33:07 | Fastolfe | ?? |
| 01:33:24 | whardier | tux_mike school project? |
| 01:34:08 | Fastolfe | laser tagging thing he's doing |
| 01:34:39 | Fastolfe | mmm mmm nacho |
| 01:34:47 | ljp | he's building a lazer-blazer for the Pentagon |
| 01:34:47 | Fastolfe | bloody hell whardier, I'm hungry now |
| 01:34:58 | Fastolfe | goes raid the vending machine |
| 01:39:07 | Fastolfe | I gotta stop ripping off that vending machine, they're gonna notice |
| 01:39:21 | whardier | hahaha |
| 01:39:21 | ljp | well.. put some money in |
| 01:39:25 | whardier | I must no the secret |
| 01:39:28 | whardier | know |
| 01:39:56 | Fastolfe | well, at least for that one, the 99 coin trick works |
| 01:40:14 | Fastolfe | put 99 nickels in it, it overflows, then bonanza |
| 01:40:22 | whardier | hahaha |
| 01:40:36 | Fastolfe | and it gives you the money back :) |
| 01:40:45 | whardier | thats 4.95 |
| 01:41:18 | Fastolfe | yeah, but the software is messed up, it thinks you just put 32768 coins in it |
| 01:41:31 | whardier | hahaha |
| 01:41:56 | whardier | so put in 99 coins.. and it spills its guts when you buy something |
| 01:42:03 | Fastolfe | so you get your food, then you press cancel and it flushes the coin holder |
| 01:42:05 | Fastolfe | free food |
| 01:42:12 | whardier | and money |
| 01:42:22 | whardier | howlog does it take to stick in 99 coins? |
| 01:42:22 | Fastolfe | not money |
| 01:42:29 | Fastolfe | cuz it only flushes what you put in it |
| 01:42:35 | whardier | ahha |
| 01:42:43 | whardier | thats right |
| 01:42:49 | whardier | because it cannot just tipthe bucket |
| 01:42:49 | Fastolfe | 32768 nickels would be good :) |
| 01:42:49 | whardier | haha |
| 01:42:57 | whardier | very! |
| 02:40:11 | ljp | hey! wake up over here! |
| 02:53:53 | Fastolfe | . |
| 03:12:51 | ljp | 's cat is using the keyboard as a pillow |
| 03:39:41 | peanut | waves |
| 03:39:47 | peanut | myzaurus.com is looking nice! |
| 03:39:47 | ljp | hello |
| 03:39:51 | peanut | hey ljp! |
| 03:39:55 | peanut | likes the pics most of all |
| 03:40:05 | peanut | the cdpd looks nice |
| 03:40:42 | peanut | wishes he could buy some of the stuff! |
| 03:41:35 | peanut | hehehe.. |
| 03:41:46 | peanut | best buy, the wiz, and circuit city |
| 03:42:28 | ljp | wow.. thats a nice site |
| 03:42:33 | peanut | very nice |
| 03:42:40 | peanut | it will rock even more once you can buy stuff! |
| 03:42:59 | ljp | :) |
| 03:43:07 | peanut | besides the software |
| 03:43:36 | peanut | sweet.. neocal |
| 03:43:55 | ljp | I still want a way to plug in via usb with the cradle, so I can use the keyboard |
| 03:44:08 | ljp | I mean like the cradle |
| 03:44:11 | peanut | ljp: i want a docking station! |
| 03:44:17 | peanut | forget using the small keyboard |
| 03:44:30 | peanut | i want to dump my laptop |
| 03:44:34 | ljp | heh- its better then the input method |
| 03:46:26 | peanut | i want the cf mobile modem card and the digital camera :) |
| 03:46:43 | peanut | oh.. and another cradle (or two) and power cords :) |
| 03:46:48 | peanut | and screen protectors |
| 03:47:01 | peanut | and the end of starvation and poverty |
| 03:47:10 | peanut | not necessarily in that order |
| 03:48:19 | Fastolfe | hmm |
| 03:48:24 | peanut | enfora |
| 03:48:30 | Fastolfe | that Sputnik thing is brilliant |
| 03:48:33 | peanut | looks nice.. color matches |
| 03:48:40 | peanut | no its not.. |
| 03:49:08 | Fastolfe | peanut: why ? |
| 03:49:31 | peanut | because its not practical |
| 03:49:32 | peanut | sounds nice.. |
| 03:49:46 | peanut | but it will become mired in lawsuits.. |
| 03:49:51 | peanut | i guarantee it.. |
| 03:50:03 | peanut | they have just become a target of every broadband provider |
| 03:50:04 | Fastolfe | mired in lawsuits how ? I'm interested |
| 03:50:15 | Fastolfe | oh yeah, that's true :) |
| 03:50:22 | peanut | if i was at&t/comcast/etc, I would sue them immediately |
| 03:50:30 | Fastolfe | peanut: but what for ? |
| 03:50:33 | peanut | is a wonderful idea |
| 03:50:42 | Fastolfe | peanut: It would be frivolous |
| 03:50:46 | peanut | to sue? |
| 03:50:47 | peanut | not |
| 03:51:02 | peanut | did you read your acceptable use policy? |
| 03:51:02 | Fastolfe | what would the charge be ? |
| 03:51:10 | Fastolfe | no I didn't |
| 03:51:13 | peanut | Fastolfe: think napster |
| 03:51:16 | Fastolfe | I just perused their site |
| 03:51:34 | Fastolfe | but napster was dealing with copyrighted material. Sputnik isn't |
| 03:51:39 | peanut | no... |
| 03:51:50 | peanut | sputnik is dealing with bandwidth |
| 03:52:13 | Fastolfe | yes, but they ask ppl who have bandwidth (and pay for it) to resell it, for a profit, essentially |
| 03:52:26 | peanut | right.. |
| 03:52:39 | peanut | it seemed to me that sputnik was a grassroots thing.. |
| 03:52:43 | peanut | did i miss something? |
| 03:52:50 | peanut | i.e. everyone install this |
| 03:52:53 | Fastolfe | so you think the BB providers will sue for that ? reselling bandwidth twice ? |
| 03:52:59 | peanut | no.. |
| 03:53:17 | peanut | i thought the sputnik idea was for everyone to install this.. |
| 03:53:22 | peanut | to create a large web of 80211 |
| 03:53:32 | Fastolfe | okay what I understood was |
| 03:53:36 | peanut | must have missed something.. |
| 03:54:29 | Fastolfe | if you have nuf bandwidth, you get yourself a 802.11b card and provide some of your bandwidth to outsiders (securely). In return, you get money from Sputnik, who get it from Sputnik customers |
| 03:54:45 | Fastolfe | I don't see a catch |
| 03:54:50 | Fastolfe | legally anyway |
| 03:55:02 | peanut | sure.. |
| 03:55:14 | peanut | if joe shmoe on cable modem installs this software, bam |
| 03:55:21 | Fastolfe | bam what ? |
| 03:55:25 | peanut | lawsuit |
| 03:55:31 | Fastolfe | but for what ? :)) |
| 03:55:41 | peanut | for allowing others to use your bandwidth |
| 03:55:46 | Fastolfe | aaah |
| 03:55:48 | peanut | sputnik faciltates it |
| 03:55:49 | Fastolfe | okay now I get it |
| 03:55:58 | peanut | they are party to a lawsuit.. |
| 03:56:01 | Fastolfe | but it's joeblow's fault, not sputnik |
| 03:56:05 | peanut | NO.. |
| 03:56:07 | peanut | not true.. |
| 03:56:19 | Fastolfe | sputnik just has to warn joe beforehand and they're protected |
| 03:56:20 | peanut | napster showed that the courts were willing to side with joe corporation |
| 03:56:24 | peanut | Fastolfe: no.. |
| 03:56:29 | peanut | again, see napster as example.. |
| 03:56:47 | Fastolfe | napster warned their "customers" ? |
| 03:56:56 | peanut | sure.. don't pirate bad stuff.. |
| 03:56:58 | peanut | all the time! |
| 03:57:00 | Fastolfe | I only used the linux client and never read the blob :) |
| 03:57:06 | Fastolfe | aah |
| 03:57:07 | Fastolfe | hmm |
| 03:57:09 | peanut | ok, they still lost.. |
| 03:57:11 | Fastolfe | interesting angle |
| 03:57:23 | peanut | works at a law school |
| 03:57:28 | peanut | we've already talked about sputnik |
| 03:57:33 | Fastolfe | damn something's rotten in this business |
| 03:57:38 | peanut | its not rotten.. |
| 03:57:41 | peanut | they're breaking the law |
| 03:58:03 | Fastolfe | peanut: I'm a law idiot, I'm just trying to understand. It took me 2 weeks just to understand the TrollTech licenses :) |
| 03:58:09 | peanut | hehehe.. |
| 03:58:25 | Fastolfe | and understand they're gonna have their asses sued one of these days :) |
| 03:58:26 | peanut | think of it this way, if you give a gun to someone you know is a murdered AND then they shoot someone, you are liable |
| 03:58:38 | peanut | murderer even |
| 03:58:48 | peanut | whats the legal term.. |
| 03:58:50 | peanut | forgets.. |
| 03:58:51 | Fastolfe | peanut: are you still liable if you give a gun to someone and tell him : you cannot use this to kill some1 ? |
| 03:58:57 | peanut | YES |
| 03:59:04 | Fastolfe | oh fuck-a-duck |
| 03:59:13 | Fastolfe | calls his hit-man :) |
| 03:59:22 | peanut | IF you suspect that person might.. |
| 03:59:43 | peanut | if you give a gun to your dad for protection AND tell him that AND he shoots someone.. so be it.. |
| 03:59:54 | peanut | mind you, i'm not a lawyer, but this is my interpretation |
| 03:59:57 | Fastolfe | peanut: okay then. What if sputnik screens their customers and only sells the CD to bizs with their own T1 for example ? |
| 04:00:01 | peanut | 's mother is a district attorney too.. |
| 04:00:09 | peanut | Fastolfe: that would be ok.. |
| 04:00:12 | peanut | but They don't |
| 04:00:16 | Fastolfe | ic |
| 04:00:19 | Fastolfe | interesting |
| 04:00:35 | Bala | and my dads a physicist.. doesnt mean i know jack all about relativity |
| 04:00:51 | peanut | Bala: i've worked at a law school for 7 years |
| 04:00:56 | peanut | i speak law terms every day |
| 04:01:00 | peanut | my mother and brother are lawyers |
| 04:01:07 | peanut | i teach 2 law classes (in tech no less, but still) |
| 04:01:20 | peanut | is not a lawyer, BUT, common sense does prevail sometimes :) |
| 04:01:36 | peanut | its very easy to draw conclusions to napster |
| 04:02:03 | Bala | bah like i care.. your american laws are stupid anyways :) |
| 04:02:18 | peanut | Bala: i'll agree with that.. |
| 04:02:22 | Fastolfe | Bala: I'm french, I think you're wrong |
| 04:02:29 | Fastolfe | Bala: I happen to know french laws |
| 04:02:32 | peanut | our laws are stupid.. |
| 04:02:43 | Bala | what am i wrong abotu?? |
| 04:02:44 | Bala | lo |
| 04:02:45 | peanut | the DMCA?? hello, we (collectively) should be shot! |
| 04:02:46 | Bala | l |
| 04:03:04 | Fastolfe | peanut: they are *tedious* or inconsistent, but they respect the constitution for the most part, unlike ours |
| 04:03:10 | Bala | i try not to express my opinion at all.. since truth be told noone gives a ratsass what i think |
| 04:03:47 | Fastolfe | I reckon the DMCA and SSCA and other new tech laws are not constitutional |
| 04:03:56 | Fastolfe | (opinion from a US law idiot :) |
| 04:04:12 | peanut | read this, |
| 04:04:18 | peanut | http://www.sputnik.com/network/aups.html |
| 04:04:21 | peanut | hehehe.. |
| 04:04:22 | Fastolfe | k |
| 04:04:41 | peanut | at least they're aware of the potential lawsuit.. |
| 04:04:57 | peanut | but alas, napster said, "don't share music that you can't share" |
| 04:05:02 | Fastolfe | well, the company was founded by 3 dot-con victims |
| 04:05:27 | peanut | maybe they were too busy throwing lavish parties, they didn't hear about napster |
| 04:05:30 | peanut | the funniest thing is.. |
| 04:05:37 | Fastolfe | yeah, well, your laws work with precedents, hence the importance of Napster |
| 04:05:40 | peanut | their lawyers probably told them to include that to protect them against lawsuites |
| 04:06:04 | peanut | unfortuantely, as you know, in america, george and big business always win.. |
| 04:06:13 | Fastolfe | yeah damn right |
| 04:06:16 | peanut | if comcast/at&t/etc set their sights on them.. |
| 04:06:26 | peanut | they're gone faster than you can say sputnik |
| 04:06:49 | peanut | Sputnik does not support any activities that violate an ISP's acceptable usage policy |
| 04:06:52 | peanut | yeah.. duh |
| 04:06:55 | Fastolfe | they could just screen their customers very carefully. Even if it's still not legit, at least they could show due diligence in court |
| 04:07:05 | peanut | if they screen their customers, they're fine.. |
| 04:07:10 | peanut | however, they're not.. |
| 04:07:16 | Fastolfe | yea |
| 04:07:18 | Fastolfe | hmm |
| 04:07:26 | Fastolfe | another good idea down the drain then |
| 04:07:30 | peanut | otherwise, they would change their AUP to reflect this (well, at least i would) |
| 04:07:34 | peanut | no.. its better than good |
| 04:07:38 | peanut | its a great idea |
| 04:07:56 | peanut | they just need to tread very very carefully (because of precedent :) |
| 04:07:58 | Fastolfe | what good is an idea if you have monster monopolies ready to squash it ? |
| 04:08:42 | Fastolfe | These days, if you started to sell ice creams in the north pole you could have your ass sued |
| 04:09:18 | Fastolfe | The *one single thing* that I have in mind when I think of all the time I spent in the US is : "holy crap all those lawsuits !" |
| 04:09:34 | peanut | we're unfortuantely a litigious society |
| 04:09:47 | peanut | everyone in america believes in the "get rich quick" mentality |
| 04:09:53 | peanut | and most people sue to get there.. |
| 04:10:04 | peanut | i know a person (a real loser) who did something totally evil.. |
| 04:10:12 | Fastolfe | so many suits are stupid that you end up making stupid laws to protect yourself from stupid lawsuits |
| 04:10:14 | peanut | they sold a car to a person down south, the person paid for the car |
| 04:10:18 | peanut | IN FULL |
| 04:10:29 | peanut | these people kept driving the car THEN GOT IN AN ACCIDENT |
| 04:10:41 | peanut | fixed the car and gave it to the buyer WITHOUT TELLING HIM |
| 04:10:43 | peanut | THEN |
| 04:10:46 | peanut | the fucking loser |
| 04:10:56 | peanut | sued the person who hit her FOR "NECK INJURIES" |
| 04:11:02 | peanut | and settled for 5k |
| 04:11:14 | peanut | this loser had to go to 5 doctors before one would say something was wrong with her neck |
| 04:11:23 | Fastolfe | yeah |
| 04:11:25 | peanut | that is why america SUCKS balls sometimes |
| 04:11:31 | peanut | is an american |
| 04:11:38 | peanut | but i don't consider dubya president |
| 04:11:45 | peanut | and i think too many people are total morons |
| 04:11:51 | peanut | including dubya |
| 04:11:53 | peanut | :) |
| 04:12:45 | Fastolfe | I heard of a guy who bought a pair of shoes, wore them for 1 1/2 yrs, then returned it to the store saying they weren't comfortable. The store said "you gotta be kidding" and the guy said he'd sue them for selling him shoes that didn't fit (damaged his feet) and not accepting them back. |
| 04:12:55 | Fastolfe | the shoe store took them back |
| 04:12:55 | Fastolfe | out of fear |
| 04:13:15 | Fastolfe | in France you'd be laughed out of existence :) |
| 04:13:15 | peanut | i've been fighting with AMEX over something similar.. |
| 04:14:02 | Fastolfe | but you know what |
| 04:14:20 | peanut | what |
| 04:14:22 | Fastolfe | you guys have stupid laws, but it's ten times preferrable to the kind of shit laws we have |
| 04:14:24 | Fastolfe | like |
| 04:14:53 | Fastolfe | you can't say anything about jews or arabs or polish immigrants, even non-racist stuffs |
| 04:15:07 | Fastolfe | there's a guy who said "all jews are bankers" |
| 04:15:12 | Fastolfe | it's stupid but it's not racist |
| 04:15:27 | Fastolfe | he went to jail for 6 months |
| 04:15:40 | Fastolfe | you can't sell nazi memorabilia in France. |
| 04:15:42 | Fastolfe | it's stupid |
| 04:16:23 | Fastolfe | (especially considering I have a collector $12K Mein Kempf I can't sell anymore :-) |
| 04:16:42 | Fastolfe | before you get scared, I'm not extreme right :) |
| 04:16:47 | Fastolfe | just a collector |
| 04:18:10 | Fastolfe | ooh here's a worthy lawsuit : http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-1519696,00.html |
| 04:19:26 | peanut | i'm still getting used to bitchx |
| 04:19:38 | peanut | oh yeah.. |
| 04:19:44 | peanut | needs sleep.. |
| 04:19:56 | peanut | thinks the nazis were evil.. |
| 04:20:10 | peanut | i respect your opinion (and right) to own something related to that |
| 04:20:18 | peanut | and i really wish france would too.. |
| 04:20:36 | peanut | :) |
| 04:20:45 | Fastolfe | peanut: they were evil, and so are racists, but I value the right of racists and nazi people to express their opinions, as I value my right to do so as well |
| 04:20:53 | peanut | agreed. |
| 04:20:54 | Fastolfe | yeah |
| 04:21:35 | peanut | things like that though should be in a museum, so people never forget the evil that humans are capable of. |
| 04:21:41 | Fastolfe | indeed |
| 04:21:43 | peanut | because its easy to single out a nazi |
| 04:21:45 | peanut | a racist |
| 04:21:52 | Fastolfe | people who don't know their past are bound to repeat it |
| 04:21:55 | peanut | a southern baptist *grin* |
| 04:22:06 | Fastolfe | heh |
| 04:22:15 | peanut | but they were human.. |
| 04:22:23 | Fastolfe | I dunno what to do with my bloody book now :) |
| 04:22:26 | peanut | evil yes.. |
| 04:22:30 | Fastolfe | I paid a bundle for it |
| 04:22:39 | peanut | design a webpage talking all about it.. |
| 04:22:44 | peanut | about how it was evil.. |
| 04:22:57 | peanut | about how you spent a bundle to make sure they it never fell into the wrong hands.. |
| 04:23:01 | peanut | that we must learn. |
| 04:23:03 | Fastolfe | lol |
| 04:23:04 | peanut | that we must never forget |
| 04:23:08 | Fastolfe | I'd go to jail :) |
| 04:23:10 | peanut | i'm totally serious |
| 04:23:20 | Fastolfe | so am I :) |
| 04:23:28 | peanut | well then,, france is totally fucked up.. |
| 04:23:29 | peanut | :) |
| 04:23:32 | Fastolfe | It would be "incitation to racism" |
| 04:23:38 | Fastolfe | peanut: YES !! |
| 04:23:41 | Fastolfe | that's why I'm here |
| 04:23:48 | peanut | i had a transfer student from france |
| 04:23:57 | peanut | he came twice.. |
| 04:24:07 | peanut | never told me about that bshit.. |
| 04:24:13 | peanut | but then again, my french was horrible.. |
| 04:24:18 | peanut | and his english wasn't so good.. |
| 04:24:18 | Fastolfe | even the jewish groups in France had to take down their Nazi-atrocities-rememberance page, to comply with the law |
| 04:24:25 | peanut | wow.. |
| 04:24:34 | peanut | ou est la toillete |
| 04:24:37 | Fastolfe | lol |
| 04:24:39 | peanut | was the extent of my french |
| 04:24:47 | Fastolfe | 1 L 2 Ts tho |
| 04:24:52 | peanut | oh well.. |
| 04:24:55 | Fastolfe | hehe |
| 04:25:02 | Fastolfe | it's a good question to know I spose |
| 04:25:02 | peanut | je ne parle pas francais |
| 04:25:15 | peanut | well.. |
| 04:25:17 | Fastolfe | yes you do |
| 04:25:25 | peanut | en peu |
| 04:25:29 | Fastolfe | heh |
| 04:25:33 | peanut | :) |
| 04:25:33 | Fastolfe | okay I believe you |
| 04:26:00 | peanut | tres peu |
| 04:26:04 | Fastolfe | lol |
| 04:26:09 | Fastolfe | grammar is slipping there |
| 04:26:11 | peanut | i think i'm getting my tenses totally wrong.. |
| 04:26:17 | peanut | yeah.. |
| 04:26:22 | peanut | oh well, its been 9 years! |
| 04:26:27 | peanut | not bad.. |
| 04:26:39 | Fastolfe | heh, french is hard, I don't blame you unless your canadian |
| 04:26:56 | peanut | stopped using it in '93 |
| 04:27:00 | peanut | and actually, really '92 |
| 04:27:09 | peanut | 4th year french class was a joke.. |
| 04:27:14 | peanut | i took it to get an easy b |
| 04:27:28 | peanut | which was really good considering my average never made it abover a 50 |
| 04:27:28 | Fastolfe | was it really a joke ? |
| 04:27:30 | Fastolfe | hmm |
| 04:27:32 | peanut | yes.. |
| 04:27:36 | peanut | the teacher was an idiot.. |
| 04:27:41 | Fastolfe | lol |
| 04:27:44 | Fastolfe | good memories |
| 04:27:44 | peanut | i never showed up for class OR studied (hence the 50) |
| 04:27:57 | peanut | but my wife was in that class |
| 04:28:03 | peanut | (and so was some of the girls i dated) |
| 04:28:05 | peanut | no complaints there! |
| 04:28:11 | Fastolfe | hehe there, some truth |
| 04:28:26 | peanut | speaking of my wife.. |
| 04:28:34 | peanut | its time to go to sleep |
| 04:28:38 | Fastolfe | k seeya |
| 04:28:43 | peanut | see ua |
| 04:28:45 | peanut | ya |
| 04:29:02 | Fastolfe | damn |
| 04:29:04 | JasonNJ | yo. |
| 04:29:12 | Fastolfe | hi mister |
| 04:29:23 | JasonNJ | fastolfe: what the deealy o with the xservero |
| 04:29:37 | Fastolfe | errh |
| 04:29:51 | Fastolfe | speak no argentiniano |
| 04:30:06 | JasonNJ | fast: did you test your xserver with the final rom |
| 04:30:15 | Fastolfe | no, should I ? |
| 04:30:20 | JasonNJ | hell yes |
| 04:30:20 | Fastolfe | you mean 1.10/1.11 |
| 04:30:22 | Fastolfe | ? |
| 04:30:23 | JasonNJ | because it doesnt work |
| 04:30:26 | JasonNJ | oh man. |
| 04:30:34 | Fastolfe | okay |
| 04:30:34 | JasonNJ | you didnt get my message friday didnt ya |
| 04:30:39 | Fastolfe | no |
| 04:30:44 | JasonNJ | the final 5500 rom |
| 04:30:47 | JasonNJ | it doesnt work. |
| 04:30:48 | Fastolfe | hmm |
| 04:30:56 | Fastolfe | what does it do ? |
| 04:31:01 | JasonNJ | I have a 5000 implementation of the 5500 rom. |
| 04:31:05 | JasonNJ | that I can give ya. |
| 04:31:13 | JasonNJ | error creating symbolic link |
| 04:31:16 | Fastolfe | aah |
| 04:31:20 | JasonNJ | and it wont let me isntall to a flashcard |
| 04:31:20 | Fastolfe | k |
| 04:31:28 | matrix- | hey.. |
| 04:31:29 | JasonNJ | the problem is with ic |
| 04:31:31 | JasonNJ | ice |
| 04:31:33 | JasonNJ | not with X |
| 04:31:41 | Fastolfe | correct, I know about that |
| 04:31:42 | matrix- | anyone know what I can do if I broke my Z, flashing a ROM (it was incomplete) |
| 04:31:47 | Fastolfe | but not the symlinking |
| 04:31:49 | JasonNJ | well, neither would let me instal to flash |
| 04:32:04 | Fastolfe | JasonNJ: does it work if you install in ram >? |
| 04:32:08 | JasonNJ | X works |
| 04:32:11 | JasonNJ | ice wont install |
| 04:32:40 | Fastolfe | I mean, when you install X the 1st time, it asks you where you want to put it. Then icewm and the rest just reuse that |
| 04:32:42 | JasonNJ | download and test that with the ROMIMAGE file please |
| 04:33:01 | Fastolfe | JasonNJ: if I have time, I'm packing up to fly to europe |
| 04:33:03 | JasonNJ | when you install X and I put in the path for the flash, it asks me for the path again |
| 04:33:24 | JasonNJ | doesnt like it when I specify /mnt/card/X |
| 04:33:31 | Fastolfe | what if you don't enter anything ? just press enter ? |
| 04:33:40 | JasonNJ | installs to default path |
| 04:33:47 | JasonNJ | however |
| 04:33:50 | Fastolfe | /mnt/card/X ? |
| 04:33:58 | Fastolfe | the directory you specify has to exist |
| 04:34:01 | JasonNJ | ask for the path again |
| 04:34:14 | JasonNJ | I'm pretty sure I made the directory |
| 04:34:18 | JasonNJ | but i can check monday |
| 04:34:24 | JasonNJ | left my 5500 at work |
| 04:34:26 | Fastolfe | hmm |
| 04:34:29 | JasonNJ | been using the 5000 mostly |
| 04:34:31 | Fastolfe | I'll check if I can |
| 04:34:45 | JasonNJ | Robert De Niro really digged my Zaurus tonight. |
| 04:35:06 | JasonNJ | had dinner in the bronx with my wife |
| 04:35:12 | JasonNJ | he was sitting at the table next to us |
| 04:36:17 | JasonNJ | I was testing the mobile services this weekend |
| 04:40:18 | ljp | anybody know of any fax software for the Z? |
| 04:43:07 | JasonNJ | hrrm. |
| 04:43:18 | JasonNJ | I should talk to the hylafax guys. |
| 04:43:23 | JasonNJ | probably would be simple to port. |
| 04:43:57 | JasonNJ | http://www.hylafax.org/ |
| 04:44:02 | JasonNJ | already exists for unix |
| 04:44:04 | JasonNJ | linux |
| 04:44:11 | JasonNJ | ljp: go port it. |
| 04:44:19 | JasonNJ | its |
| 04:44:21 | JasonNJ | OSS |
| 04:44:53 | JasonNJ | ftp://ftp.hylafax.org/source/hylafax-4.1.1.tar.gz |
| 04:45:03 | ljp | hehehe |
| 04:45:08 | JasonNJ | would need a qt frontend probably |
| 04:45:12 | JasonNJ | although we have Xfree |
| 04:45:20 | JasonNJ | to get that peice to work |
| 04:46:12 | JasonNJ | 2.2.1 - HylaFAX Prerequisets |
| 04:46:12 | JasonNJ | libtiff - get it at http://www.libtiff.org |
| 04:46:12 | JasonNJ | LZW compression is not required. BSD needs version 3.5.6 to compile. |
| 04:46:12 | JasonNJ | Ghostscript - get it at http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/ |
| 04:46:12 | JasonNJ | SGI IRIX users may use Impressario or DPS. |
| 04:46:12 | JasonNJ | zlib - usually available with libtiff or Ghostscript |
| 04:46:14 | JasonNJ | awk, gawk, mawk, or nawk - get mawk at ftp://ftp.whidbey.net/pub/brennan/ |
| 04:46:16 | JasonNJ | Many distributions come with one of these already. |
| 04:46:18 | JasonNJ | sendmail or compatible SMTP - get it at http://www.sendmail.org/ |
| 04:46:20 | JasonNJ | Many distributions come with one. |
| 04:46:22 | JasonNJ | metamail or compatible UU-encoding program. |
| 04:46:24 | JasonNJ | For optional use in fax- |
| 04:46:26 | JasonNJ | I think we got ghostscript ported |
| 04:46:38 | JasonNJ | we got zlib |
| 04:46:47 | JasonNJ | so we need libtiff |
| 04:46:58 | JasonNJ | fastolfe: go make it work |
| 04:48:02 | NeoTron | FINALLY a gdb that works |
| 04:48:15 | NeoTron | JasonNJ: did I ever tell you how much I hate PalmOS development? :P |
| 04:49:04 | JasonNJ | no |
| 04:49:07 | JasonNJ | btw |
| 04:49:10 | NeoTron | well, I do. :P |
| 04:49:19 | NeoTron | I had forgotten what a pain in the neck it is |
| 04:49:28 | JasonNJ | do you think you could write a peice about your experiences porting SA from pocketpc |
| 04:49:37 | JasonNJ | I would like that for our next developer newsletter |
| 04:49:57 | NeoTron | I wrote something about that for Spencer for some newsletter |
| 04:50:09 | NeoTron | if that's the same you're thinking about I don't know |
| 04:50:14 | JasonNJ | oh |
| 04:50:23 | JasonNJ | Spencer already asked you to do it? |
| 04:50:26 | NeoTron | yeps |
| 04:50:28 | JasonNJ | damn he's fast. |
| 04:50:38 | NeoTron | heh |
| 04:50:38 | JasonNJ | I think I suggested it to him yesterday |
| 04:50:46 | JasonNJ | that he talk to you about it |
| 04:51:01 | NeoTron | First mail I got from him was on Thursday. |
| 04:51:10 | ljp | Jason: have you heard of anyone porting realplayer stuff? |
| 04:51:27 | JasonNJ | ljp: we are talking to real. |
| 04:51:38 | JasonNJ | however the lack of a fpu is going to make it a real bitch. |
| 04:51:47 | NeoTron | the ipaq has an fpu? |
| 04:51:48 | ljp | ya.. |
| 04:51:53 | JasonNJ | Neo: it does not |
| 04:52:06 | NeoTron | well, I know they have someting for the ipaq... |
| 04:52:06 | JasonNJ | no strongarm pda has an fpu. |
| 04:52:18 | JasonNJ | Neo: if they do, I sure would like to know what it is. |
| 04:52:27 | JasonNJ | because even the xscale does not have it. |
| 04:53:29 | NeoTron | I don't know much details and I don't know if I should talk about it either |
| 04:53:37 | JasonNJ | ? |
| 04:54:09 | JasonNJ | http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=2wcb8.9197%24M_2.1500668%40typhoon.nyc.rr.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dfloating%2Bpoint%2Bipaq%26hl%3Den%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3D2wcb8.9197%2524M_2.1500668%2540typhoon.nyc.rr.com%26rnum%3D2 |
| 04:54:09 | NeoTron | don't know if it's public knowledge or not |
| 04:54:29 | JasonNJ | the intel strongarm does not have an integrated fpu |
| 04:54:59 | JasonNJ | if its an external fpu, its not going to be using strongarm instructions |
| 04:55:16 | JasonNJ | because if its not integrated into the raw instruction set it will be treated like an external device |
| 04:55:29 | JasonNJ | which will gain you very little acceleration wise |
| 04:56:27 | kergoth | . |
| 04:57:30 | JasonNJ | the arm 1020 has a floating point |
| 04:57:34 | JasonNJ | but thats not a strongarm |
| 04:57:39 | NeoTron | http://www.realnetworks.com/company/press/releases/2002/intel.html?UK=X |
| 04:58:09 | JasonNJ | yes fixed point codec |
| 04:58:13 | JasonNJ | we spoke to them about this |
| 04:58:19 | JasonNJ | so far, it only runs on PocketPc |
| 04:58:38 | JasonNJ | we are discussing various licensing issues with them |
| 04:58:51 | NeoTron | right |
| 04:58:57 | NeoTron | but it's the same processor |
| 04:59:04 | JasonNJ | yes same cpu |
| 04:59:13 | JasonNJ | 1020 is an ARM not a strongARM |
| 05:01:28 | JasonNJ | http://www.arm.com/armtech/ARM1020E_1022E?OpenDocument |
| 05:01:30 | JasonNJ | hmm. |
| 05:01:39 | JasonNJ | maybe we should ditch the StrongARM for this. |
| 05:02:38 | JasonNJ | power consumption is 0.6 MW |
| 05:02:39 | NeoTron | optional FPU |
| 05:02:41 | JasonNJ | yes |
| 05:02:45 | JasonNJ | 325mhz |
| 05:02:59 | JasonNJ | veddy interesking. |
| 05:03:10 | NeoTron | might be nice |
| 05:04:26 | JasonNJ | should be able to run existing binaries too |
| 05:04:34 | JasonNJ | or minor recompile. |
| 05:06:27 | NeoTron | ./¦ |
| 05:06:45 | JasonNJ | whats the power consumption on strongarm? |
| 05:07:29 | NeoTron | nn]\ n 0. 4444444 n,m. /. |
| 05:07:43 | JasonNJ | uh |
| 05:07:49 | NeoTron | nn]\ n 0. 4444444 n,m. /. bg000 |
| 05:08:12 | NeoTron | My daughter. :) |
| 05:09:15 | NeoTron | , n nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn k n n n bp' . lm nn |
| 05:10:38 | JasonNJ | the strongarm is faster clockwise |
| 05:10:48 | JasonNJ | but with no floating point thats a bit of a problem |
| 05:10:53 | JasonNJ | for games anyways |
| 05:11:01 | JasonNJ | and video or sound encoding |
| 05:13:23 | NeoTron | yeah |
| 05:13:37 | NeoTron | but it certainly has a lot of power for a lot of things |
| 05:14:15 | JasonNJ | floating point will make up for the mhz |
| 05:14:25 | JasonNJ | and I am sure within the next year they will be comparable with xscale |
| 05:14:36 | NeoTron | xscale? |
| 05:14:43 | JasonNJ | next gen intel strongarm |
| 05:14:46 | JasonNJ | 400mhz |
| 05:14:53 | JasonNJ | http://developer.intel.com/design/intelxscale/ |
| 05:15:11 | JasonNJ | personally I would rather have 325mhz with an FPU than 400mhz with no fpu |
| 05:16:27 | NeoTron | if the MHz are comparable, that might indeed be preferable |
| 05:18:37 | JasonNJ | 650MFlops floating performance with the optional fpu |
| 05:18:54 | JasonNJ | well that about settles it for me |
| 05:19:01 | JasonNJ | think of the games we can do with that |
| 05:19:09 | JasonNJ | we're talking PS2 quality now |
| 05:19:30 | JasonNJ | espcially when our next screen is VGA res |
| 05:19:34 | JasonNJ | 640 x 480 |
| 05:19:46 | JasonNJ | that will make the pocket pc people shut up for sure |
| 05:19:51 | NeoTron | cool |
| 05:20:06 | JasonNJ | proably would make palm shit bricks |
| 05:21:40 | JasonNJ | see my theory on this is linux by itself is probably not enough to woo people away from the pocketpc hardware |
| 05:21:46 | JasonNJ | our hardware also has to be superior |
| 05:23:57 | NeoTron | yeah |
| 05:24:05 | NeoTron | and software has to be equivalent |
| 05:25:14 | JasonNJ | or better |
| 05:26:20 | NeoTron | yes |
| 05:33:09 | JasonNJ | see with a floating point we could drop a firewire port on the sucker |
| 05:33:16 | JasonNJ | and have a digital camera attachement |
| 05:33:27 | JasonNJ | and do quicktime encoding right on the unit |
| 05:33:28 | JasonNJ | or real |
| 05:33:30 | JasonNJ | or whatever |
| 05:33:59 | NeoTron | problems are battery life, size etc.. |
| 05:34:26 | JasonNJ | yeah but it looks like the ARM-10 and the Xscale have comporable battery lifes and die sizes |
| 05:34:58 | NeoTron | that's nice |
| 05:36:25 | JasonNJ | actually it looks like xscale may actually use more power than arm10 |
| 05:38:03 | NeoTron | anyhow, time to go get some food |
| 05:54:07 | fusion94 | feh |
| 05:57:49 | fusion94 | shhhhh... |
| 06:17:30 | pratorian | does the Zaurus have a pcmcia slot? |
| 07:56:50 | fusion94 | foo |
| 09:03:49 | fusion94 | bah |
| 09:03:59 | mark_ | hi fusion94u |
| 09:04:53 | NeoTron | hint of the day: porting to PalmOS from PocketPC/Z isn't entirely straight forward |
| 09:05:44 | mark_ | needs to learn STL in a day |
| 09:08:22 | fusion94 | morning all |
| 09:10:18 | fusion94 | i'll have screenshots up in a sec |
| 09:11:01 | mark_ | NeoTron: hehe, you porting SA? |
| 09:12:08 | NeoTron | trying to |
| 09:13:22 | NeoTron | anyhow, night time |
| 09:13:39 | mark_ | c ya NeoTron |
| 09:18:06 | fusion94 | feh |
| 09:26:12 | fusion94 | morning kergoth |
| 09:27:01 | kend-zaur | damnit |
| 09:27:07 | kend-zaur | my term's fsckd |
| 09:28:21 | kend-zaur | damnit |
| 09:29:01 | kend-zaur | i cant run mutt |
| 09:29:40 | fusion94 | heh |
| 09:29:43 | fusion94 | try pine |
| 09:29:45 | fusion94 | runs |
| 09:29:47 | kend-zaur | :^P |
| 09:30:04 | kend-zaur | uninstalls & uses older ver |
| 09:30:10 | kend-zaur | brb |
| 09:43:47 | kend-zaur | didnt fix it |
| 09:44:06 | kend-zaur | diff is, ssh is fucked on this rom, so im telnetting to my deb box upstairs |
| 09:44:29 | kend-zaur | symptom is screensize apps like 'ls' and 'mutt' think i have is wrong |
| 09:44:47 | fusion94 | is away: reading |
| 09:44:48 | kend-zaur | thinks i have wide & shorter than i do, no matter font size |
| 09:44:54 | kend-zaur | any ideas? |
| 09:44:55 | fusion94 | that sucks |
| 09:45:02 | fusion94 | i dont have a Z so no |
| 09:45:14 | fusion94 | sorry mate |
| 09:45:36 | kend-zaur | :^/ |
| 09:48:01 | kend-zaur | sgh |
| 09:53:57 | kend-zaur | gives up |
| 11:56:02 | mark_ | does the official Z rom image include an email client? |
| 12:26:24 | Olegs | hi people |
| 12:30:49 | mark__ | hi Olegs |
| 12:31:31 | mark__ | can anyone log into contest.trolltech.com to upload their entry? |
| 12:31:51 | Olegs | don't know :-( |
| 12:38:33 | weimer | is away: I'm busy |
| 12:39:23 | mark__ | does the official Z image have an easy way of connecting to the net via a phone and ir? |
| 12:51:25 | Olegs | i don't think "easy" |
| 13:03:24 | mark__ | is away: - lunch |
| 13:37:12 | mark__ | is back (gone 00:33:48) |
| 13:58:39 | weimer | is away: I'm busy |
| 13:58:58 | weimer | is back (gone 00:00:01) |
| 14:07:57 | mark__ | is away: I'm busy |
| 16:31:28 | weimer | is away: I'm busy |
| 16:53:20 | mark__ | anyone with official Z/GSM mobile about? |
| 17:15:33 | warmi | hi |
| 17:15:56 | tgall_foo | greets |
| 17:16:20 | mark__ | hi all |
| 17:16:29 | mark__ | myZaurus is launched by the looks of things |
| 17:16:49 | mark__ | well semi launched |
| 17:17:01 | warmi | do you know who runs this site ? |
| 17:18:06 | mark__ | sharp |
| 17:18:20 | warmi | it is not exactly working yet ..... tried to register and got :Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005' |
| 17:18:37 | mark__ | no, its not exactly working |
| 17:18:46 | mark__ | lots isn't working |
| 17:19:12 | mark__ | its a good view of what its gonna be like though? |
| 17:19:13 | tgall_foo | heh... obviously a company that hasn't learned about microsoft server products.... |
| 17:19:20 | warmi | with recent proliferation of IIS boxes out ther this "OLE DB PROVIDED" joins 404 as one of the most annoying errors on the web |
| 17:19:59 | mark__ | http://myZaurus.com/images/tips-tricks/fig1.gif |
| 17:20:04 | mark__ | is this what the latest rom image looks like? |
| 17:20:20 | warmi | looks great |
| 17:20:51 | mark__ | is that what 1.1 looks like? |
| 17:21:27 | warmi | I guess |
| 17:21:51 | tgall_foo | mark__: ah ... yeah looks like my 1.10 image |
| 17:22:43 | mark__ | tgall_foo: really? looks much nicer than GPL version :) - what is Proxim configuration? |
| 17:23:44 | tgall_foo | whips out his Z |
| 17:24:03 | mark__ | has yet to receive his one |
| 17:24:34 | warmi | hell, I hope it will show up on my dorsteps sometime on Monday .. |
| 17:24:40 | tgall_foo | kind of wireless card... I have an 802.11 card... I've never set that up ... doesn't looks like it applies at all |
| 17:24:52 | mark__ | warmi: have they been dispatched |
| 17:24:53 | tgall_foo | I don't get much into the user space software (least not at the moment) ... I'm a kernel hacker |
| 17:25:04 | mark__ | tgall_foo: heh, okay. |
| 17:25:26 | tgall_foo | I like to load crappy kernels on and break it 8-)( |
| 17:25:41 | mark__ | tgall_foo: :D |
| 17:25:59 | warmi | mark_ l: they better ... |
| 17:26:15 | mark__ | warmi: i wouldn't be suprised if they hadn't |
| 17:26:38 | mark__ | and then I wonder who/what they shipped them with, and if they paid for a quick service |
| 17:28:22 | mark__ | warmi: I also bet that i'll get a US power adaptor |
| 17:28:22 | warmi | well, let's have some trust in our esteem friends at Trolls America . |
| 17:29:29 | tgall_foo | after all if you can't trust in a troll, you'll never get across the preverbial bridge 8-) |
| 17:29:31 | warmi | I am thinking about putting some music soundtrack in my game ... it would blow size of the game by about 100 (Mikod) + 100 kb mod file |
| 17:29:56 | tgall_foo | warmi: but on the good size, you're game would be that much cooler right 8-) |
| 17:30:21 | warmi | yeah, that is what drives my desire to do it |
| 17:30:25 | mark__ | warmi: do you know if we'll get hancom office for our 5000s? |
| 17:31:02 | warmi | I doubt mark: I think we just gonna get whatever was included in the first dev bach of Zs |
| 17:31:23 | warmi | I think Sharp is just getting rid of unsold dev boxes ( which is fine with me .. can't really complain) |
| 17:31:31 | mark__ | warmi: they are. |
| 17:31:46 | mark__ | warmi: i was wondering if the ROMs fort he 5500 (with hancom) will be available for 5000s |
| 17:31:57 | tgall_foo | hancom? |
| 17:32:11 | mark__ | hancom office |
| 17:32:36 | warmi | http://www.hancom.com/en/products/hancommobileoffice.html |
| 17:33:22 | warmi | folks from Korean with funny English-like descriptions of their product :HancomMobileOffice is an application program that is required for Linux-based PDA or HPC, whose supply has been tremendously increasing lately. This is also the first application program for Linux. |
| 17:33:44 | mark__ | LOL |
| 17:34:16 | tgall_foo | ooooo ok I think I remember these guys now.... |
| 17:34:24 | tgall_foo | they were at linux world in NYC |
| 17:34:29 | mark__ | I really hope 5500 roms will run on 5000, but what about the ram? |
| 17:34:34 | warmi | frankly, Enligsh is my second language but even I can see that they seriously need to hire some native speaker to translate their documents |
| 17:34:51 | henrik | engrish.com is a very funny site :) |
| 17:34:56 | tgall_foo | heh |
| 17:35:04 | mark__ | warmi: what is your first language? |
| 17:35:10 | warmi | yeah, I read it :-) it is Japanese English |
| 17:35:18 | tgall_foo | goes back to paper writtin' |
| 17:35:24 | warmi | Polish |
| 17:35:31 | tgall_foo | warmi: seriously? |
| 17:35:40 | tgall_foo | warmi: are you in poland now? |
| 17:36:05 | mark__ | warmi: okay. /me wonders why English people can't speak foreign languages nearly as well as others can speak eng lish |
| 17:36:06 | warmi | no, I was born in Poland but since 1993 I live in US |
| 17:36:26 | tgall_foo | warmi: ah cool. |
| 17:36:47 | weimer | is back (gone 01:05:19) |
| 17:36:50 | henrik | mark__: why should you? english has such a dominant position that it doesn't make sense to learn much else. |
| 17:37:23 | warmi | it is matter of necessity .... Enligsh is quickly becoming universal language and therefore, once you know it, there is no real need to learn anything else |
| 17:37:42 | mark__ | tgall_foo: 'since I live in US' - 'since I have lived in the US' - since is such a pain in all languages |
| 17:37:59 | warmi | heh |
| 17:38:20 | henrik | I'm hoping for everyone to adopt esperanto, but i doub't that'll happen. English seems like a good runnerup. |
| 17:38:20 | warmi | I still don't exacly get the differnce between "had " have had" etc .. |
| 17:38:22 | finkaway | mark__: mostly because we have to travel much further to find anyone who speaks another language than someone in Europe |
| 17:38:43 | mark__ | English people speaking german always say 'Ich habe seit 4 Jahren in England gearbeitet'. yuck |
| 17:38:56 | henrik | s/doub't/doubt (i have a funny habit of randomly placing "'":s in the middle of words) |
| 17:38:57 | finkaway | I have learned other languages, but with no way to practice them on any kind of regular basis, I've pretty much lost thme |
| 17:38:58 | finkaway | them |
| 17:39:08 | warmi | English is quite easy to learn .. at least it was easy for me |
| 17:39:17 | warmi | mark_ what is your native language , English ? |
| 17:39:25 | mark__ | warmi: yeh |
| 17:39:30 | mark__ | warmi: although I prefer german |
| 17:39:47 | henrik | warmi: the reason why english is so easily learnt is probably because everyone is exposed to it all the time. |
| 17:39:52 | finkaway | german is a very easy language to read |
| 17:40:04 | warmi | I am half German half Polish but I forgot German language after 10 years of not using it |
| 17:40:13 | finkaway | I have some trouble understanding it when spoken though |
| 17:40:17 | mark__ | warmi: 'have had' gives an impression of a stretch of time, 'had' gives the impression of one particular moment in time |
| 17:40:34 | mark__ | warmi: but I dont think it is as clear cut as that |
| 17:41:16 | warmi | mark_ that is the problem ... it is very vague and you can't really memorize the rules here :-) |
| 17:42:00 | mark_ | warmi: yeh, I have no idea what the rules are. You don't use 'have had' that much really, apart from with since, 'I have lived here for 3 years' |
| 17:43:47 | warmi | yep :-) I get by just fine without using more complicated/obscure tenses ( or whatever it is called in English ) |
| 17:44:00 | mark_ | warmi: English is a stupid mix of languages, thats why it is so quirky |
| 17:44:15 | mark_ | French is a b*gger too |
| 17:44:50 | finkaway | Mandarin is a nightmare |
| 17:45:06 | mark_ | finkaway: is it? I may be taking that up next year |
| 17:45:49 | finkaway | I find it difficult to pronounce all the subtle vocal sounds that it uses |
| 17:46:10 | mark_ | finkaway: I see |
| 17:46:16 | mark_ | finkaway: i'll either be doing that or japanese |
| 17:46:36 | mark_ | warmi: i'm really itching for my Z now |
| 17:46:41 | warmi | hehehe .... it has nothing in common with Indo-European languages .... I mean after all, French , German, Russian , Polish, English are at least somewhat similar |
| 17:47:02 | warmi | same thing with Japaneese |
| 17:47:04 | ljp | cept if your from Texas |
| 17:47:08 | mark_ | warmi: yeh, English and german are pretty similar |
| 17:47:22 | warmi | they all derive a lot from Latin ... |
| 17:47:33 | mark_ | hated latin |
| 17:47:53 | warmi | which I had to take back in College ( even with CS being major :-) ) |
| 17:48:05 | finkaway | I like latin |
| 17:48:25 | warmi | nec hercules contra plueres - that is all I have left of my latin :-) |
| 17:48:30 | mark_ | finkaway: its horrible! |
| 17:48:39 | mark_ | bonus bona bonum........... |
| 17:48:48 | mark_ | boni bono bono |
| 17:49:03 | mark_ | ah i cant remember then rest :) |
| 17:49:24 | warmi | mark_ if you talking about grammar then it might be horrible for English speaker but the stuff you just mention is common in almost all European languages |
| 17:49:35 | warmi | so it does not seem so difficult for me |
| 17:49:49 | mark_ | warmi: i just couldnt see the real point in it |
| 17:49:52 | mark_ | its grammar is horrible |
| 17:50:00 | mark_ | esperianto rocks btw |
| 17:50:10 | warmi | verbs changing depending on who is speaking ( sex), the context etc .. |
| 17:51:05 | mark_ | yep |
| 17:52:03 | mark_ | warmi: so you are hoping for tommorow z wise? i'll be lucky for the same time next week... |
| 17:52:14 | warmi | where are you ? |
| 17:52:16 | mark_ | uk |
| 17:52:46 | warmi | oh, we had this discussion before ... and you agreed that UK is not the end of the world :-) |
| 17:52:53 | mark_ | hehe |
| 17:52:54 | mark_ | yeh :) |
| 17:53:10 | mark_ | but they wont have gone for a quick service |
| 17:53:46 | mark_ | if they are ups, can we try and get the numbers for the deliverys so we can check on their site? |
| 17:53:49 | warmi | who knows ... maybe they have |
| 17:54:37 | warmi | well, you couldn't get names of the beta-winners out of them , you think they will give up UPS # |
| 17:54:54 | mark_ | hehe |
| 17:55:07 | warmi | well, anyway.. you gonna have plenty of time left |
| 17:55:20 | warmi | 2.5 weeks or so .... |
| 17:56:27 | warmi | mark_ are you familiar with mod files ? |
| 17:56:46 | mark_ | no |
| 17:57:15 | mark_ | warmi: if they went UPS express its Monday, otherwise Thursday |
| 17:57:52 | warmi | well, how long does it take for an average ( non-express) package from US to get to UK ? |
| 17:58:10 | warmi | 3-4 days ? |
| 17:58:37 | mark_ | warmi: ups have a thing on their site where you key in dispatch addr, receiver addr and shipping date and they say when its there by |
| 17:59:12 | warmi | you mean USPS or UPS ? |
| 17:59:17 | mark_ | UPS |
| 17:59:23 | warmi | http://www.ups.com/ |
| 17:59:38 | warmi | oh yeah, I know .. I have used it before ( actually my wife have) |
| 17:59:55 | warmi | surprisingly , it does even work :-) |
| 18:00:50 | mark_ | warmi: ups are truely excellent |
| 18:01:38 | warmi | let's hope they used them |
| 18:03:17 | warmi | I think I AM gonna put soundtrack into my game ... I got to keep up with Neo and his Eligo |
| 18:03:20 | warmi | heh |
| 18:03:32 | ljp | warmi: it'll take about 4-9 days for Postal Service to get to you, I think |
| 18:04:03 | warmi | you mean to get to Mark in UK ? |
| 18:04:09 | warmi | from US |
| 18:04:10 | ljp | I doubt TT will send it UPS, as it would be really expensive to do so |
| 18:04:24 | ljp | errr. yes from US to Uk |
| 18:05:01 | warmi | it is not that more expensive ... well, I should say, stateside delivery is not .. I don't know about international |
| 18:05:15 | ljp | international it has to go air |
| 18:05:43 | warmi | well, so does local .... I mean it does fly from CA to , say IL |
| 18:05:46 | warmi | :-=) |
| 18:05:57 | ljp | UPS ground is ground |
| 18:06:17 | ljp | I'm not sure how they're shipping it |
| 18:06:24 | warmi | well, that is true ... |
| 18:06:27 | tgall_foo | ljp: well low flying brown brick shaped truck 8-) |
| 18:06:34 | ljp | hehe |
| 18:06:36 | warmi | hehehehe |
| 18:07:02 | warmi | it still flies better that blue one with eagle on the side |
| 18:07:48 | ljp | very true |
| 18:08:01 | warmi | tgall:are you in US ? |
| 18:08:49 | henrik | it would suck not to get the Z for another week or two.. |
| 18:10:16 | warmi | henrik: does your app uses anything Z ( or arm) specific ? |
| 18:15:33 | mark__ | ljp: would they really risk the USPS? |
| 18:16:15 | ljp | they can insure it, and track it |
| 18:16:26 | warmi | hehehe .. that sounds like a great new slogan for USPS |
| 18:16:50 | warmi | "would you reall risk your package with us " |
| 18:18:38 | ljp | I've seen mangled packages from all delivery agents |
| 18:20:03 | warmi | well, true but somehow only USPS has this aura of inefficiency associated with them |
| 18:20:24 | mark__ | yeh |
| 18:20:29 | mark__ | they dont have the worlds best reputation |
| 18:21:28 | warmi | I let you know guys when I get my Z |
| 18:21:30 | warmi | :-) |
| 18:21:51 | mark__ | yeh |
| 18:22:01 | warmi | I am in Chicago , halfway from CA to UK :-) |
| 18:22:18 | mark__ | warmi: heeh |
| 18:22:29 | warmi | I think they will be sending it from their CAlifornia office, but I might be wrong |
| 18:23:10 | mark_ | sharp have a stock of them in the Uk. why they couldnt ship from there i dont know |
| 18:23:58 | warmi | who knows maybe they will ... after all we just taking pure specilation here on our part |
| 18:24:00 | warmi | could happen |
| 18:24:14 | warmi | speculation << specilation :-) |
| 18:24:24 | mark_ | i think jason said they were being shipped from tt |
| 18:26:36 | warmi | well, enough guessing ... they WILL come |
| 18:26:59 | ljp | maybe |
| 18:27:02 | ljp | :) |
| 18:27:04 | warmi | time do to some catching up with Neo and his game .. he has a lead these days and final day is getting closer |
| 18:34:09 | mark_ | warmi_work: which is yours? |
| 18:34:44 | warmi_work | http://www.warmi.net/images/puzz_le.png |
| 18:36:14 | mark_ | nice |
| 18:36:21 | mark_ | hates Eligo's background music btw |
| 18:37:12 | warmi_work | it is like vexed on steroids ( my game, I never heard Eligo music ) |
| 18:37:24 | warmi_work | :-) |
| 18:37:29 | mark_ | heh |
| 18:39:55 | Night_Vis | any PIM's available for windows yet? |
| 18:44:06 | mark_ | Night_Vis: yeh, some little company in Redmond made something called Outlook |
| 18:44:38 | finkaway | yeah, it's a virus catcher that has the added feature of being an email client |
| 18:48:04 | ljp | qtopiadesktop |
| 19:06:04 | ep0ch | bloody win2k usb drivers are a pile of toss |
| 19:41:49 | NetAmp | was just tortured by Sharp |
| 19:42:03 | NetAmp | Hm I thought "let's visit Sharp's site"... |
| 19:42:18 | NetAmp | but it's all "get a SL-5500!" |
| 19:42:21 | NetAmp | And I can't :( |
| 19:42:29 | NetAmp | *boohoo* |
| 19:42:39 | NetAmp | Well I'm just too impatient *L* ;-) |
| 19:42:46 | NetAmp | any news here? |
| 19:42:48 | ][N-Flux | When they shipping? |
| 19:42:58 | NetAmp | Someone said end of this month |
| 19:43:07 | fusion94- | werd |
| 19:43:16 | fusion94- | http://fusion94.org/sharp/ |
| 19:43:45 | NetAmp | hopes that's not just another page that'll crash IExplorer 6 |
| 19:43:48 | NetAmp | ;-) |
| 19:44:06 | NetAmp | hey what's that... screenshots... hmz |
| 19:47:46 | NetAmp | hey |
| 19:47:53 | NetAmp | those project pages don't work |
| 19:48:02 | NetAmp | (any more?) |
| 19:53:17 | matrix- | have you seen the japanese Z.. w/ the built-in camera? |
| 19:53:32 | NetAmp | no? |
| 19:53:47 | NetAmp | that sounds cool :) |
| 19:53:50 | matrix- | lemme find a link.. |
| 19:54:00 | matrix- | I can't remember where I saw it.. |
| 19:54:22 | NetAmp | fusion94: hey nice design on your home page |
| 19:54:34 | NetAmp | matrix: hm ok |
| 19:55:17 | matrix- | http://sharp-world.com/sc/gaiyou/news-e/001121-1.html |
| 19:55:30 | matrix- | and http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,87744,00.asp |
| 19:55:38 | matrix- | I saw a picture of it too.. lemme find a link.. |
| 19:55:41 | fusion94- | NetAmp: thanks |
| 19:55:52 | fusion94- | NetAmp: and those project pages do work actually |
| 19:56:35 | NetAmp | fusion: ow.. hm... I got a 404 error on http://developer.sharpsec.com/projects/z-bugs/ |
| 19:56:59 | fusion94- | NetAmp: um |
| 19:57:01 | fusion94- | dude |
| 19:57:13 | fusion94- | look at the url in the screenshots |
| 19:57:20 | fusion94- | in the briwser url window |
| 19:57:24 | fusion94- | browser |
| 19:57:29 | NetAmp | yeah I know |
| 19:57:34 | fusion94- | the ones in the news items are fake for now |
| 19:57:49 | NetAmp | owwww *lol* dumb me ;-) sorry had a busy day *lol* |
| 19:58:14 | fusion94- | heh np |
| 19:58:23 | NetAmp | matrix: cool stuff |
| 19:58:26 | henrik | matrix-: i think i'll keep by d30 for a while still though :) |
| 19:58:49 | matrix- | I broke my SL-5000D last last night.. =( |
| 19:58:54 | NetAmp | what?! how? |
| 19:59:04 | matrix- | so I'm looking at new stuff to buy.. incase sharp service can't fix it.. |
| 19:59:15 | matrix- | ROM hax0ring while drunk and high.. |
| 19:59:20 | NetAmp | ouch... |
| 19:59:26 | nelazul | does anyone know when there will be a new openzaurus release? |
| 19:59:30 | matrix- | the ROM image didn't copy to the CF all the way.. |
| 19:59:48 | finkaway | that should be fixable |
| 19:59:50 | NetAmp | and you cannot try again? |
| 19:59:59 | matrix- | so I start flashing it.. because it's like a routine that my body knows now.. hitting C-D, holding hte stylus in my mouth, and pushing reset.. |
| 20:00:15 | matrix- | then my computer tells me that the file didn't copy all the way.. |
| 20:00:18 | matrix- | and I'm like.. crap.. |
| 20:00:24 | matrix- | so the two lights just stay on for a really long time.. |
| 20:00:29 | matrix- | like 7-8 minutes.. |
| 20:00:35 | matrix- | and then I'm like.. well.. hmm.. what do I do now? |
| 20:00:44 | NetAmp | turn it off? ;) |
| 20:00:58 | matrix- | so I just reset it, pull the CF, re-copy the ROMIMAGE, make sure it's there, and then try to reflash it.. |
| 20:01:08 | matrix- | nothing works.. |
| 20:01:20 | matrix- | the batt charging light doesn't even come on when the power plug is in.. |
| 20:01:35 | nelazul | try hitting the hard reset button again |
| 20:01:36 | NetAmp | "11 hours of audio replay from a memory card"! |
| 20:01:46 | matrix- | I've hit it like 7 times.. =) |
| 20:01:49 | nelazul | heh |
| 20:01:52 | NetAmp | on that Zaurus MI-E25DC |
| 20:01:52 | finkaway | hmmmm, if nothing else works I'm sure you could send it back to Sharp |
| 20:01:58 | matrix- | I even pulled the battery and re-put it in.. |
| 20:02:11 | matrix- | was there a warrenty on these things? |
| 20:02:15 | matrix- | I can't remember.. |
| 20:02:25 | nelazul | hmm, you could try keeping the battery out until the backup runs down |
| 20:02:32 | finkaway | sharp has been good about fixing 5000d's I've heard |
| 20:02:49 | fusion94 | is away: smoke break |
| 20:02:56 | nelazul | i don't think reflashing is covered under the warranty but they'll probably fix it anyway |
| 20:03:18 | matrix- | nelazul: nope.. I was flashing the ROM.. right? so even if the batt runs down, it's still fux0red.. |
| 20:03:39 | matrix- | but... I'm gonna try that anyways.. |
| 20:04:19 | matrix- | I'll call sharp service/support tomorrow.. |
| 20:04:33 | nelazul | yeah, its worth a shot |
| 20:04:42 | matrix- | it just makes me mad at myself that I messed that up.. |
| 20:05:04 | NetAmp|brb | ah well hm I'll keep my Sony DSC for photos... |
| 20:05:04 | nelazul | i thought i did that once but luckily it just needed another hard reset |
| 20:05:22 | nelazul | hmm, i need a wireless card for this thing so i can go wardriving :) |
| 20:05:25 | matrix- | yeah.. I thought I messed it up a bunch of times, actaully.. |
| 20:05:36 | matrix- | nelazul: that's what I've been doing with it.. |
| 20:05:40 | matrix- | which is why it upsets me that it's broken.. |
| 20:05:44 | nelazul | heh |
| 20:05:57 | nelazul | what wireless card do you use? |
| 20:06:19 | matrix- | linksys |
| 20:06:24 | matrix- | kismet is fscking amazing.. |
| 20:06:31 | matrix- | www.kismetwireless.com |
| 20:06:33 | nelazul | i'm conflicted between that and the smc |
| 20:06:47 | nelazul | i might get the smc so it doesn't block the stylus |
| 20:06:53 | matrix- | the socket? |
| 20:07:10 | nelazul | no, SMC makes one too |
| 20:07:15 | matrix- | is it prism 2.5? |
| 20:07:17 | nelazul | the socket one is too expensive... |
| 20:07:19 | nelazul | i think so |
| 20:07:22 | finkaway | the linksys can be filed down so that it doesn't block the stylus |
| 20:07:32 | nelazul | oh, and it doesnt break it? |
| 20:07:32 | matrix- | yeah, but aren't they basically the same thing.. just sold under diff companies? |
| 20:07:40 | nelazul | maybe, im not sure |
| 20:07:53 | finkaway | actually, you can even get the stylus in/out without filing it, but it is hard to do |
| 20:07:55 | fusion94 | is back (gone 00:05:06) |
| 20:07:58 | matrix- | nelazul: I would avoid any card that isn't prism 2.. if you wanna do wardriving.. |
| 20:08:05 | nelazul | it sounds fairly disquieting to take a file to a wireless card... |
| 20:08:28 | matrix- | I dunno if prism 2.5 goes into monitor mode the same way prism 2 does.. |
| 20:08:37 | matrix- | or is able to pass full 802.11b frames.. |
| 20:08:40 | finkaway | what chipset is the linksys card? |
| 20:08:48 | matrix- | 2 |
| 20:08:50 | tgall_foo | prism2 |
| 20:09:10 | matrix- | that's what i used to us.. |
| 20:09:10 | matrix- | use.. |
| 20:09:12 | finkaway | that's what I thought |
| 20:09:15 | nelazul | gotta go, bbl... |
| 20:09:17 | matrix- | sheds a tear.. |
| 20:09:22 | finkaway | what is the difference between 2 and 2.5? |
| 20:09:55 | matrix- | what's the difference between windows 95 and windows 98? |
| 20:10:08 | finkaway | the start up .wav |
| 20:10:19 | matrix- | heh |
| 20:10:37 | matrix- | sorta the same thing.. |
| 20:10:40 | finkaway | actually the main difference was USB if I remember correctly |
| 20:11:20 | finkaway | According to south park the movie "windows 98 was supposed to be faster, with better access to the internet" |
| 20:11:20 | matrix- | I dunno if there are any major differences.. just programs that exploit some prism2 traits, might not work w/ prism 2.5 |
| 20:14:27 | fusion94 | is away: movie |
| 20:21:36 | BigBoss | hey all |
| 20:24:38 | ][N-Flux | hey BigBoss |
| 20:28:06 | BigBoss | well I found a Z 5000 for sale on eBay |
| 20:28:47 | ][N-Flux | there were 3 on there yesterday when I checked |
| 20:29:35 | BigBoss | this one had a copy of some of our software, but I can't find the guy as having purchased it, so I'm kinda scratching my head on where it came from |
| 20:30:16 | ][N-Flux | yeah, I saw that one |
| 20:30:43 | BigBoss | I inquired and the response I got was that it came from myzaurus.com |
| 20:32:25 | ][N-Flux | hrmmmm |
| 20:33:40 | ][N-Flux | nice camera for the Z |
| 20:33:45 | BigBoss | there is? |
| 20:33:56 | ][N-Flux | yeah |
| 20:34:01 | BigBoss | on the CF? |
| 20:34:06 | ][N-Flux | http://myzaurus.com/acc_Comm.asp#camera |
| 20:35:52 | NeoTron | whee. :P |
| 20:36:26 | ][N-Flux | heyNeo |
| 20:36:47 | ][N-Flux | kewl, they are also selling spare batts and a batt charger |
| 20:36:48 | BigBoss | pretty nifty, but no price |
| 20:37:08 | ][N-Flux | looks like they are gearing up for the launch |
| 20:37:29 | BigBoss | i understand it's a week or two away |
| 20:37:31 | mark_ | hi all |
| 20:37:49 | mark_ | BigBoss: myZaurus looks like they are getting ready for the launch |
| 20:37:55 | ][N-Flux | wonder what is going to happen with all the 5000d's |
| 20:38:07 | finkaway | ebay |
| 20:38:12 | NetAmp|brb | What doest it cost, the camera? |
| 20:38:30 | mark_ | ][N-Flux: people wont bother upgrading to 5500s will they? |
| 20:38:33 | BigBoss | there is nothing wrong with the 5000's really |
| 20:38:38 | finkaway | I will |
| 20:38:56 | ][N-Flux | depends if you can use the apps with the 5000 |
| 20:39:01 | ][N-Flux | memory will be a concern |
| 20:39:03 | mark_ | ][N-Flux: you will, thats the idea |
| 20:39:22 | BigBoss | I'm fine with the 5000 myself |
| 20:39:33 | mark_ | ][N-Flux: true, but if you use the compact flash for all storage then you have your 32Mb dont you? |
| 20:39:54 | ][N-Flux | mark_: I know that, I'm just talking in general |
| 20:40:03 | ][N-Flux | I'm fine witht he 5000 myself |
| 20:40:23 | mark_ | i'll be _really_ happy if I can get hancom for it |
| 20:40:44 | BigBoss | it would be really nice if Hancom would mention that it's included in the ROM somewhere |
| 20:40:48 | ][N-Flux | there will be a new rom for the 5500 on launch also won't there? |
| 20:40:56 | BigBoss | that's been the delay for the last few weeks was getting Hancom done |
| 20:41:06 | mark_ | BigBoss: the hancom site is hilarious. that opening paragrah |
| 20:41:09 | BigBoss | it's all in the last roms I installed |
| 20:41:10 | tgall_foo | wonder how much larger that rom will be with hancom in it |
| 20:41:15 | tgall_foo | that's gotta add "weight |
| 20:41:17 | mark_ | BigBoss: publically available roms? |
| 20:41:20 | BigBoss | believe me I know how bad it is |
| 20:41:33 | ][N-Flux | they should pull the java demos out of the rom |
| 20:41:36 | BigBoss | they're my partners and I've been badgering them for a month to fix it |
| 20:41:41 | BigBoss | mark: not sure what was decided |
| 20:41:51 | BigBoss | yea, I can pull the java demos and java itself and not care |
| 20:42:00 | mark_ | BigBoss: okay. |
| 20:42:07 | tgall_foo | BigBoss: tell them they need to add the following to their page "All your bases are belonging to us!" |
| 20:42:12 | mark_ | Should the 5500 rom run on the 5000 or are Sharp gonna leave us in the cold? |
| 20:42:41 | BigBoss | tgall: a friend of mine sent them an email and said that and they replied asking what he meant :) |
| 20:42:45 | ][N-Flux | I don't think they would do that |
| 20:42:51 | tgall_foo | hehe |
| 20:43:06 | NetAmp|brb | "All your Z are belong to us" :P |
| 20:43:16 | ][N-Flux | Sharp is not in the habit of screwing developers |
| 20:43:18 | BigBoss | sharp has been pretty spastic about supporting the developer community and showing that there is a thriving group of developers |
| 20:43:36 | BigBoss | they do some good things, then they ignore everyone, then they run this way and that way |
| 20:43:45 | BigBoss | I think they have good intentions, but are swamped with this release |
| 20:43:48 | tgall_foo | no different from any other com;pany |
| 20:43:56 | BigBoss | probably true |
| 20:44:09 | ][N-Flux | this launch is important |
| 20:44:13 | mark_ | BigBoss: you are probably right. They haven't really done much at all to support the community |
| 20:44:27 | mark_ | BigBoss: they could have improved konqueror rather than go with opera etc |
| 20:44:31 | NeoTron | SDL key events kinda working |
| 20:44:34 | BigBoss | this is huge for them, they really have to get it right, and I think they are making some mistakes |
| 20:44:47 | mark_ | NeoTron: I thought you went to bed? |
| 20:44:58 | NeoTron | I did yesterday, yes |
| 20:45:00 | BigBoss | mark: My company ported Konqueror to the Z reference hardware about a year ago for Lineo as a proof of concept because Opera was not delivering |
| 20:45:06 | BigBoss | but in the 11th hour Opera came through |
| 20:45:07 | NeoTron | I usually get up every day |
| 20:45:11 | mark_ | HancomMobileOffice is an application program that is required for Linux-based PDA or HPC, whose supply has been tremendously increasing lately. This is also the first application program for Linux. |
| 20:45:22 | BigBoss | and quite frankly Opera is much better than Konqueror on the Z from what I've tried |
| 20:45:41 | BigBoss | I'm sure many people will be surprised to hear it is the first app for linux :) |
| 20:45:58 | mark_ | BigBoss: perhaps, but they could have put resources into improving it, and gained kudos while doing it |
| 20:46:20 | mark_ | HancomMobileOffice will consist of safety and fast speed operated by QT Embedded library |
| 20:46:25 | BigBoss | look at the big picture on this - who was going to officially support and improve it and be responsible for it? |
| 20:46:51 | BigBoss | My company would have stepped in and done that, but it was a very tense negotiation to get Sharp to go Linux instead of Wince |
| 20:47:04 | ][N-Flux | I'm suprised we didn't see an embedded mozilla |
| 20:47:06 | mark_ | BigBoss: i'm sure they could have found KDE devels to do the work |
| 20:47:24 | mark_ | BigBoss: or you :) |
| 20:47:34 | BigBoss | mark: that is a lot different than having a known company |
| 20:47:48 | BigBoss | I don't think I was enough of a known entity at the time |
| 20:47:55 | BigBoss | but Lineo did come to us to help |
| 20:48:22 | mark_ | BigBoss: they have potential a lot to gain from the community, and I just dont think they have done enough to repay it |
| 20:48:37 | BigBoss | oh well, they are what they are and everyone is learning |
| 20:48:58 | BigBoss | unless you've worked for a multi-billion dollar company (which I've done), then it's hard to appreciate how hard it is to get things done |
| 20:49:17 | mark_ | i'm sure |
| 20:49:20 | BigBoss | I'd like to see Sharp include some fliers directing people to third party software that is available |
| 20:49:51 | BigBoss | the myzaurus site is just ugly as sin |
| 20:50:02 | mark_ | there is so little software at the moment I'm suprised they are launching so soon |
| 20:50:32 | BigBoss | There is plenty of core software |
| 20:50:43 | BigBoss | on my Handspring I've never used anything outside of what it came with |
| 20:50:52 | NetAmp | Hm well I'm gonna get a 5500 anyway (I hope? I'm in Europe... *argh*) cuz I'm not that much of a die-hard Linux developer ;-) |
| 20:51:33 | mark_ | BigBoss: hmm. yeh there is lots of core software, and thats good. |
| 20:52:10 | NetAmp | hey |
| 20:52:15 | NetAmp | that Hancom Office suite |
| 20:52:20 | BigBoss | I'd like to see some verticle market applications start to come out like warehouse, inventory stuff, doctors office, etc. |
| 20:52:24 | NetAmp | also supports the Micro$oft formats huh? |
| 20:53:27 | mark_ | NetAmp: so it seems |
| 20:54:00 | mark_ | BigBoss: i'm a bit confused - you say the new ROMS you have tried have come with hancom office - do you mean internal/private roms? |
| 20:54:06 | NetAmp | mark: that would be nice.. |
| 20:55:49 | mark_ | NetAmp: sure would |
| 20:56:03 | mark_ | NetAmp: time to ditch my desktop I think :) |
| 20:56:18 | NetAmp | mark: lol ;) |
| 20:56:57 | BigBoss | mark: let me look |
| 20:57:35 | finkaway | sharp has not released anything beyond 1.10/1.11 right? |
| 20:58:19 | BigBoss | mark: it's out of this latest rom, it was in the last one I had |
| 20:58:39 | mark_ | finkaway: right |
| 20:59:19 | NetAmp | cuz I travel to college by train, so I'd like to use that time for typing some stuff I can directly open in M$ Word |
| 20:59:19 | mark_ | BigBoss: do you know if the last one was a public one? |
| 20:59:38 | NetAmp | (and ofcourse play Quake, otherwise I'd just get a Palm or something :D) |
| 21:00:19 | NetAmp | but it isn't free, or is it? Sucks that Star Office isn't anymore :( |
| 21:00:55 | mark_ | NetAmp: no and yes |
| 21:01:02 | NetAmp | ;-) |
| 21:01:17 | NetAmp | hm... oh well we'll just have to live with that ;) |
| 21:02:16 | NetAmp | Has anyone found & used any good screen protectors yet? |
| 21:02:42 | mark_ | NetAmp: I thought the Z shipped with one? |
| 21:02:53 | NetAmp | If i'm going to buy such an expensive toy I'd like it to last, heh |
| 21:03:01 | ljp_ | The rom with Hancom was not a public release |
| 21:03:05 | NetAmp | mark: well... it comes with a flip cover |
| 21:03:17 | NetAmp | mark: but I mean a "stick-on" for the touchscreen |
| 21:03:21 | mark_ | NetAmp: oh right |
| 21:03:58 | finkaway | why isn't sharp releasing what they have to the developers? |
| 21:04:40 | mark_ | finkaway: how do you mean? |
| 21:05:14 | finkaway | I mean we are taking a risk by buying a devel version and we are halping them out by developing/testing it. It seems that the ROMs they give us are months behind what they really have |
| 21:05:35 | finkaway | making it hard to (1) develop for it and (2) test it |
| 21:06:08 | mark_ | finkaway: yeh. |
| 21:06:17 | mark_ | finkaway: they seem overly incompetent to me but.. |
| 21:06:43 | finkaway | I mean it is their product, they can do what they want but they seem to be really clueless as to what the advantage of an open source OS really is |
| 21:07:01 | BigBoss | they've never dealt with it before |
| 21:07:15 | BigBoss | I'm telling you, the levels of beuracracy at that place have insane |
| 21:07:21 | BigBoss | especially being a japanese company |
| 21:07:26 | BigBoss | much different corporate climate |
| 21:07:47 | finkaway | they would probably cut their testing/development cycle in half if the released ROMs more often and listened to feedback |
| 21:07:55 | ][N-Flux | well, rule #1 should be "don't fuck developers" |
| 21:07:57 | ljp_ | ya, they are a big, fat old school company that believes in extended QA peroids |
| 21:08:15 | finkaway | unfortunatly, their internal QA seems to really be clueless |
| 21:08:26 | ][N-Flux | don't bite the hand that codes for ya |
| 21:08:31 | BigBoss | no, the real problem is the number of hands in the pie and the short time frame |
| 21:08:41 | BigBoss | Sharps QA group has actually been kicking some serious ass |
| 21:08:52 | finkaway | the hundreds of developers out there would likely LOVE to help (at the very least with bug reports) but cannot |
| 21:08:54 | BigBoss | but there are like 4 forks of the ROM floating around now |
| 21:09:09 | ljp_ | ya, I agree- qtopia was thrown together |
| 21:09:18 | mark_ | finkaway: yep, |
| 21:09:25 | ljp_ | 4? |
| 21:09:54 | BigBoss | qpe/qtopia has been around for some time now, but they didn't really get serious with it till this contract |
| 21:10:08 | BigBoss | you have a TT rom, a Sharp rom, a Lineo rom and OpenZaurus |
| 21:10:13 | BigBoss | and those are just the ones I know about |
| 21:10:28 | ljp_ | hmm |
| 21:10:36 | mark_ | BigBoss: presumably the Sharp one is most cutting edge? or not? |
| 21:10:54 | BigBoss | `i got no idea |
| 21:10:54 | NeoTron | this is so cool. : |
| 21:11:00 | NeoTron | plays SDLRoids in qvfb. |
| 21:11:03 | ljp_ | heh- I would say OZ.. but it hasn't had a release lately |
| 21:11:31 | BigBoss | other than the networking problems I had when I tried oz a couple months ago, it is damn nice |
| 21:11:37 | BigBoss | i'd like to see the 3.0 one out |
| 21:11:52 | mark_ | BigBoss: its missing stuff though |
| 21:12:04 | mark_ | BigBoss: well the GPL qtopia is missing a tonne of fstuff, which is a pain |
| 21:12:15 | finkaway | OZ is out of Sharp's hands but their internal one should be released more often |
| 21:12:57 | finkaway | even if it is not perfect, that is why it is a DEVELOPMENT version :) |
| 21:13:13 | warmi_work | Netoron: how much weigh did Mikimod and your mod files added to you binary ? |
| 21:13:41 | ][N-Flux | I thought M$ had to stop using thier version of the java vm |
| 21:14:12 | mark_ | nods at finkaway's comments |
| 21:15:27 | ljp_ | anybody know how to get a QPopupMenu at the cursor position to be anything more than the size of a stub? |
| 21:15:51 | warmi_work | add menu items to QPopupMenu ?? |
| 21:16:02 | ljp_ | hehe there ARE menu item... |
| 21:16:04 | ljp_ | items |
| 21:16:39 | NetAmp | gheh |
| 21:17:17 | warmi_work | this is a working code I used in one of my apps. |
| 21:17:30 | warmi_work | QPopupMenu menuList; |
| 21:17:31 | warmi_work | |
| 21:17:32 | warmi_work | menuList.insertItem("&Copy",0); |
| 21:17:33 | warmi_work | menuList.insertItem("Copy Selected to &Query Window",1); |
| 21:17:34 | warmi_work | if ( cType==DBBrowserTreeItem::UserTable || cType==DBBrowserTreeItem::SystemTable || cType==DBBrowserTreeItem::View) |
| 21:17:35 | warmi_work | { |
| 21:17:36 | warmi_work | menuList.insertSeparator(); |
| 21:17:37 | warmi_work | menuList.insertItem("&Execute Query on Selected Items",2); |
| 21:17:38 | warmi_work | } |
| 21:17:39 | warmi_work | int result= menuList.exec(QCursor::pos()); |
| 21:17:49 | warmi_work | it works for me ... |
| 21:18:41 | warmi_work | basically, create QPopupMenu ... add items and call exec on it .. it should work |
| 21:18:50 | ljp_ | well its not |
| 21:19:30 | ljp_ | I'm using new though, like the fileBrowser does |
| 21:19:46 | warmi_work | that shouldn't really matter .. |
| 21:19:59 | ljp_ | I know |
| 21:20:49 | warmi_work | have you tried the same code on Qt ( not Qt embedded ) ? |
| 21:20:59 | warmi_work | I am just guessing here .. |
| 21:21:55 | ljp_ | no. but I am using almost the exact same code as qpe' fileBrowser does. |
| 21:22:18 | NetAmp | hm I guess I'll stick with Java for a while ;-) |
| 21:23:35 | warmi_work | beats me ljp ... double check your code and see if there are any trivial mistake you might be overlooking searching for "serious" bugs :-) |
| 21:26:16 | ljp_ | heh- whoops.. using wrong tab index.. DOH |
| 21:28:09 | NetAmp | ;-) |
| 21:28:40 | warmi_work | lol .. told ya |
| 21:33:57 | kendrick2 | jason? |
| 21:34:05 | kendrick2 | damn |
| 21:34:08 | ljp_ | its always the small things that are frustrating.. |
| 21:34:24 | kendrick2 | avoids making any penis jokes |
| 21:34:28 | kendrick2 | anyone seen jason? |
| 21:34:45 | kendrick2 | i'm going to demo the Zaurus @ SacLUG this thursday, and am about to send out what i guess you'd call a press release |
| 21:34:52 | kendrick2 | i want him to make sure it sounds ok ;) |
| 21:35:17 | kendrick2 | oh well |
| 21:35:24 | kendrick2 | too bad... sending now. need to go finish laundry :) |
| 21:37:24 | jserv | Hi, all. |
| 21:37:28 | ljp_ | hiya |
| 21:38:22 | jserv | Could somebody tell what happened to the forums of ZaurusZone? |
| 21:38:41 | jserv | It seems not to be work... 404?! |
| 21:39:12 | warmi_work | "Sorry, the boards are offline at the moment" |
| 21:39:13 | warmi_work | "Sorry, the boards are offline at the moment |
| 21:39:19 | warmi_work | that is what I get |
| 21:39:26 | warmi_work | (sorry for double post) |
| 21:39:38 | ljp_ | the posts are off line |
| 21:39:43 | jserv | What a pity. But cheep up. :-) |
| 21:39:46 | warmi_work | "We are currently moving the server, so we have to freeze posts. Check in with us over the next day or so as our DNS propogates to the new machine " |
| 21:39:48 | ljp_ | heheh- he's moving them to a new server |
| 21:40:43 | warmi_work | jPerlow was recently complaining about problems with his Linux box .. |
| 21:42:47 | jserv | Okey, I've ported a nice game. |
| 21:43:14 | jserv | I named it Qthello-Qtopia. It's a othello game. |
| 21:43:36 | jserv | It looks like the URL as follows: |
| 21:43:44 | jserv | http://ccns.ncku.edu.tw/~jimchyun/qpe/qthello/snapshot.png |
| 21:43:52 | jserv | and |
| 21:44:04 | jserv | http://ccns.ncku.edu.tw/~jimchyun/qpe/qthello/snapshot2.png |
| 21:44:15 | jserv | It is available here: |
| 21:44:21 | warmi_work | looks cool |
| 21:44:24 | jserv | http://ccns.ncku.edu.tw/~jimchyun/qpe/qthello/qthello.tgz |
| 21:44:33 | jserv | Source code. :-) |
| 21:44:52 | jserv | But I don't know how to improve it. |
| 21:45:04 | warmi_work | in what sense ?meaning what ? |
| 21:46:11 | jserv | Since it was coded with C++ exception handling, I couldn't compiled with -fno-exceptions |
| 21:46:53 | jserv | Is there any patterns for me to convert try {} catch { } to Qt's signals and slots? |
| 21:48:04 | warmi_work | well, I fail to see how Qt singnals could make your job here easier |
| 21:48:57 | jserv | Ooop, I forgot to say... Qthello supports gaming with Computer instead of human. (nice AI.) |
| 21:48:58 | warmi_work | looking at the source code .. |
| 21:49:02 | warmi_work | catch ( OutOfRangeException &e ) |
| 21:49:03 | warmi_work | { |
| 21:49:04 | warmi_work | qDebug( QString( "AlphaBetaComputer::FocusIn:error %1" ).arg( e.text() ) ); |
| 21:49:05 | warmi_work | } |
| 21:49:13 | jserv | Yap... I am new to Qt... |
| 21:49:39 | warmi_work | it seems like your catch clause is simply debugging code which should not happen in the "final version" .. |
| 21:50:15 | warmi_work | if I were you I would simply go thru the code and replace try{} catch with if -else error handling ... |
| 21:50:27 | jserv | nono... Exception OutOfRange is important. |
| 21:51:02 | warmi_work | yeah, but it doesn't do anything beyond reporting problem .. |
| 21:51:13 | NetAmp | hey that looks nice :) |
| 21:51:26 | warmi_work | java dude is back :-) |
| 21:51:29 | warmi_work | lol |
| 21:51:55 | NetAmp | who? me? |
| 21:51:58 | NetAmp | :d |
| 21:52:00 | NetAmp | :D |
| 21:52:10 | warmi_work | jserv: seriously, this example I showed you doesn't do anything but report the problem which won;t help the user in anyway |
| 21:52:14 | jserv | mmm, that means I have to change the logic of Qthello. |
| 21:52:17 | warmi_work | Net: yeah :-) |
| 21:52:47 | warmi_work | jserv: yeah, it won't be anything global ... just local handling of try{} catch .... |
| 21:53:27 | NetAmp | warmi: *lol* well I'm learning that anyway (in college), so I'll try it first before starting with Qt (even though I'm not really fond of java on the desktop) |
| 21:53:36 | warmi_work | I don't know .... maybe there is a better solution but if I were you I would do just that .. go and change try{} to if{} .... anyone else any suggestions ? |
| 21:53:38 | jserv | I got it... It was just a simple thing... haha. |
| 21:53:47 | whardier | la |
| 21:54:34 | warmi_work | NetAmp: I have nothing against Java ... I do Java at my day job .. |
| 21:54:44 | warmi_work | it is just I prefer Qt :-) |
| 21:55:26 | jserv | Also, I wonder if there is a pattern to apply Qt's signals and slots for replacing C++'s exception handling? |
| 21:55:49 | jserv | It must be interesting. :p |
| 21:56:02 | warmi_work | signals and slots are meant to be replacement for callbacks ... or messages |
| 21:56:27 | warmi_work | I somehow doubt it fits into what you are trying to do here |
| 21:56:39 | jserv | Signals&Slots machanism is graceful, but I have to change my logic... |
| 21:57:54 | NetAmp | Hm I'm not really a big fan of Java... especially with the new exploits in the JVM... but I guess it'll be easier to learn C/C++ afterwards :) |
| 21:58:32 | NetAmp | and it's not really fast either... but I read that on the Zaurus it runs pretty fast (?) |
| 21:58:47 | ljp_ | I like java- with cream.. actually I prefer espresso |
| 21:59:09 | jserv | Java.. a nice platform :-) |
| 21:59:31 | warmi_work | jserv: seriously I am looking thru the source code now and I can't find any try{} catch that could not be easily replaced by if{} else .. |
| 21:59:34 | jserv | Is there any *Free* Java VM for Z? |
| 22:00:23 | jserv | Okay... I'll redesign Qthello without exception handling. |
| 22:00:55 | NetAmp | or Jthello :P |
| 22:01:10 | jserv | The modifiled version might be more lightweight for play/ I do hope. |
| 22:01:15 | warmi_work | jserv: who wrote original ? you ? |
| 22:02:16 | jserv | The orignal code was from Jan Borsodi <jb@ez.no>. |
| 22:02:39 | jserv | please consult main.cpp for details. |
| 22:03:50 | warmi_work | whoa... this game looks cool |
| 22:04:26 | warmi_work | jserv: did you enter Trolls contest with that game ? |
| 22:04:27 | ][N-Flux | what game? |
| 22:04:36 | NetAmp | jserv: wow http://ccns.ncku.edu.tw/~jimchyun/qpe/ is in Chinese? |
| 22:04:58 | NetAmp | jserv: is that an Apple theme on the first screenshot? |
| 22:05:14 | jserv | I doesn't enter the contest for my poor programming... |
| 22:05:33 | warmi_work | jserv: it doesn't look "poor" to me ... |
| 22:05:36 | jserv | Sorry for my poor English again. |
| 22:05:42 | NetAmp | jserv: well my programming is probably worse :P ;-) |
| 22:05:54 | NetAmp | (well in C at least, heh) |
| 22:06:27 | warmi_work | jserv: your port looks almost complete .. |
| 22:06:28 | jserv | I am a student from Taiwan. :-) |
| 22:06:43 | Cam | Any news of a *Java* contest? |
| 22:06:47 | NetAmp | nice to meet ya, I'm a student from the Netherlands |
| 22:06:56 | warmi_work | I mean, just get rid of excetions and you should be fine ... I saw you are using Config class and everything ... |
| 22:07:05 | warmi_work | do you own Zaurus jserv ? |
| 22:08:03 | jserv | NetAmp: It's Qtopia hydro style |
| 22:08:31 | NetAmp | hydro style... sweeeet... now I want a 5500 even more ;) |
| 22:09:10 | mark_ | jserv: is QThello java? |
| 22:09:11 | jserv | Qthello-Qtopia is a test for my Qtopia programming. :-) |
| 22:09:21 | warmi_work | hydro style ????? |
| 22:09:36 | warmi_work | jserv: you are doing good , you really are. |
| 22:09:41 | jserv | Qthello is C++ native for Qtopia. |
| 22:09:49 | mark_ | jserv: oh good |
| 22:10:30 | warmi_work | mark_: yeah, it is basically Qt app from what I have seen so far .. in fact, it is Qtopia specific app :-) |
| 22:10:40 | jserv | warmi_work: Yap. hydro style could be found in Qtopia. |
| 22:11:10 | warmi_work | you mean GUI style like Windows, Motif etc ??? |
| 22:11:26 | jserv | warmi: Try to right click on window title, and you'll find the style. |
| 22:11:48 | warmi_work | believe it or not ... I am on Windows now and I can't test it :-) |
| 22:11:56 | warmi_work | I was just looking at the source code |
| 22:12:31 | warmi_work | I don't own Zaurus either ( not yet at least ) |
| 22:12:35 | warmi_work | :-) |
| 22:12:52 | jserv | It seems that no *Free* Java VM ever exists on Zaurus?? |
| 22:13:07 | NetAmp | warmi_work: are you getting a 5500 too? |
| 22:13:27 | jserv | I don;t own a Zaurus, either.. |
| 22:13:32 | warmi_work | netAmp: 5500 ?? too ?? who is getting 5500 ? I thought we all got 5000s ? |
| 22:13:45 | NetAmp | well... buying, when they ship |
| 22:14:17 | warmi_work | jserv: I thought Java was .. Java , there is no "free" java , if you write your program it will run on any Java |
| 22:14:27 | warmi_work | NetAmp: I might ... don't know yet |
| 22:14:31 | ksaj | Greets |
| 22:14:41 | tgall_foo | waves |
| 22:14:55 | warmi_work | if my future dev 5000 doesn't work well I might get myself 5500 |
| 22:14:57 | jserv | Sigh... what a pity . no free jvm. |
| 22:15:05 | ksaj | heh you're everywhere tgall :) |
| 22:15:06 | tgall_foo | ksaj: bet you didn't expect that I had a zaurus ;-) |
| 22:15:06 | warmi_work | hi ksaj |
| 22:15:07 | NetAmp | cuz I wanna buy one (after they've gotten a little cheaper I guess...) |
| 22:15:30 | jserv | Could free Java VM, like Kaffe VM, be ported to Qtopia? |
| 22:16:12 | ksaj | Well, I'll have one after the 22nd when they ship... I ordered it a couple of months ago. Definitely looking forward to it. |
| 22:16:23 | Cam | why is it so important to have a free jvm, if thte unit comes with one anyway?? |
| 22:16:36 | BigBoss | exactly |
| 22:16:51 | mark_ | Cam: for people running OZ |
| 22:16:53 | catalin | because you can |
| 22:17:00 | catalin | 't get it on OZ |
| 22:17:03 | Cam | there must be more inmportant things to work on ;-) |
| 22:17:25 | warmi_work | jserv: yeah.. Z comes with Java installed ... all you need to do is simply install you app class files and it will work .. at least that is how I understand it |
| 22:18:09 | NetAmp | can't someone 'rip' it from Sharp's package? :P |
| 22:18:18 | jserv | warmi: But once I use OpenZaurus, I couldn't have any JavaVM. |
| 22:18:20 | NetAmp | grins evilly |
| 22:18:47 | Cam | what are the Java killer apps then, what is the best one so far? |
| 22:19:01 | jserv | Kaffe VM had proted to Agenda, and works well. |
| 22:19:07 | BigBoss | ones that kill Java? :) |
| 22:19:09 | mark_ | notes his ipaq has been on full battery for days |
| 22:19:19 | warmi_work | jserv: well, you might be right .. |
| 22:19:19 | NetAmp | *lolz* |
| 22:19:26 | catalin | Kaffe is way behind the latest java version |
| 22:19:31 | Cam | did the kaffe really 'work well' on the Agenda, not that I heard |
| 22:19:41 | jserv | But not available under Qopia. |
| 22:19:43 | warmi_work | but why would you want to run OpenZAurus instead of standard one ? |
| 22:19:51 | NetAmp | mark: I wonder if battery life did increase for the Z SL-5500 |
| 22:20:12 | mark_ | NetAmp: if it did it'd just be a better battery that you could put in the 5000 it hink |
| 22:20:33 | ljp_ | because OZ has enhanced apps |
| 22:20:43 | mark_ | because OZ is just that, open |
| 22:20:58 | jserv | Cam: at least, for a small amount of work :p |
| 22:20:59 | NetAmp | yeah true... and I hope so for the 5000 owners, it would be an improvement |
| 22:21:14 | ksaj | NetAmp: what is the battery life like on the Zaurus? |
| 22:21:43 | NetAmp | ksaj: sorry I don't own one yet(?), but I heard it's not really fantastic |
| 22:22:08 | NetAmp | in comparison to others... but as I said I don't have one, so I don't know from my own experience |
| 22:22:13 | jserv | warmi: Because I own iPaq, not Zaurus. it's the fact. |
| 22:22:18 | ksaj | I rather expect it to be nothing like the Palm Pilot (which I charge about once every 2 months) because of usage, but I hope it is better than that of a laptop... |
| 22:22:31 | warmi_work | anyway, I don;t see much interest in Java Z development anyway ... and since Opie seems to binary compatible with Qtopia installing OpenZaurus won't change anything |
| 22:23:13 | warmi_work | if you don't do Java, that is |
| 22:24:47 | mark_ | ksaj: how long does your laptop last? |
| 22:25:20 | ksaj | mark - about 3 hours (so I have 2 batteries ...) |
| 22:25:36 | mark_ | ksaj: its about that I would think |
| 22:25:38 | jserv | Is it possible that Zaurus will become the leader of Linux PDA? |
| 22:25:59 | NetAmp | hums "follow the leader..." |
| 22:26:19 | warmi_work | mark_: mere fact that something is "open" doesn't do for me .. I am bit more pragmatic and actually do care about technical pros/cons as opposed to social virtues of a given product ( free or closed ) |
| 22:26:20 | warmi_work | :-) |
| 22:27:02 | NetAmp | hm no battery details in the Specs |
| 22:27:13 | NetAmp | (at Sharp-Usa.com anyway) |
| 22:27:27 | mark_ | no there are none |
| 22:27:44 | ksaj | maybe they'r solar powered. ;) |
| 22:27:56 | mark_ | warmi_work: its open - bugfixes are applied quickly, developements happen fast, anyone can hack on it |
| 22:28:18 | jserv | mark: How and why you think? |
| 22:28:29 | NetAmp | http://www.sharp-usa.com/products/ModelDetailedSpecs/0,1161,699,00.html |
| 22:29:28 | NetAmp | Rechargeable Lithium-Ion Battery Included |
| 22:30:02 | warmi_work | well, yeah ... true in theory... maybe even in practice :-) I do not mind OpenSource ( my app will be released as such) but I treat it as just another way of developing/distributing software .. has its pros as well as cons |
| 22:30:55 | NetAmp | But I guess generally you don't need the light too much |
| 22:31:00 | warmi_work | I guess, what I am trying to say is that I don't like GPL much ... I prefer BSD style license allowing freedom without any strings attached |
| 22:31:01 | jserv | Oop... It's morning in Taiwan. I am a little hungry. |
| 22:31:17 | NetAmp | People with a 5000: How is the experience with the reflective LCD screen? |
| 22:31:23 | warmi_work | jserv: Monday morning ??? heehe |
| 22:31:48 | jserv | I have to leave, all. |
| 22:32:00 | NetAmp | jserv: C-ya, have a good day |
| 22:32:00 | jserv | Bye! |
| 22:32:37 | NetAmp | Hm it's 11:37pm here... so it'll be monday morning soon |
| 22:32:55 | ksaj | 5:30 here, soon time for dinner. ;) |
| 22:33:07 | NetAmp | but eh... is the Z's screen quality good? |
| 22:33:28 | ksaj | According to reviews, their screens are better than 'good' |
| 22:33:37 | NetAmp | yah I read Sharp's screens are with the best |
| 22:34:05 | ksaj | They say you can read it equally well inside and out in sunlight. I can't do that with my Palm Pilot... |
| 22:34:19 | mark_ | ksaj: nor with my ipaq |
| 22:34:49 | NetAmp | and I wonder about the sound too... one reviewer even said it sounded like a SB Live!, heh |
| 22:34:55 | warmi_work | yeah, I has back or front light .... anyway , it does work well acording to reviews |
| 22:35:09 | NetAmp | front lit :) |
| 22:35:11 | ksaj | Heh, if the sound is that good, they better provide a sequencer |
| 22:35:46 | NetAmp | that's what's supposed to make it so good, the fact that it's front lit |
| 22:35:58 | NetAmp | Reflective TFT LCD with Front Light (touch sensitive panel supported), 3.5" with 240x320 pixel, 65,536 colors |
| 22:35:58 | NetAmp | |
| 22:35:58 | NetAmp | |
| 22:36:35 | whardier | you bastard |
| 22:36:52 | warmi_work | Net: I will be ,hopefully, getting my Z5000 soon so I will tell you first hand if it works well |
| 22:37:04 | NetAmp | warmi: thanks :) |
| 22:37:28 | NetAmp | whardier: what's up? |
| 22:37:42 | whardier | I tried unselecting the text you posted |
| 22:37:46 | whardier | bastard |
| 22:37:46 | warmi_work | hehe, since I have never used any Palmtop or any other PocketPc before my "review" will be very unbiased and on the point .. either I can read stuff on the screen or I can't :-) |
| 22:37:52 | NetAmp | wahahahaa |
| 22:37:58 | NetAmp | whardier: sorry, heh |
| 22:38:30 | ksaj | I ordered my 5000 a while ago. It is available on the 22nd, and so I guess that means I get mine a week later. |
| 22:38:36 | NetAmp | warmi: *lol* |
| 22:39:27 | ksaj | warmi's first review "The screen is soooo small". ;) |
| 22:40:11 | warmi_work | ksaj: nope, that is old news ... I did work with qvfb for a while so it won't be as shocking :-) |
| 22:40:25 | NetAmp | second review: "After hooking it up to my 21 inch bigscreen TV I'm rather satisfied about it" |
| 22:42:00 | NetAmp | aha |
| 22:42:02 | warmi_work | hell, I wish I had 21 inch bigscreen TV ... |
| 22:42:02 | NetAmp | cool |
| 22:42:04 | NetAmp | "MS Word & Excel Compatibility Yes " |
| 22:42:12 | ksaj | warmi_work: so I guess it'll look very familiar to you then... yer right. first review "the keyboard is sooo small" (works as long as you don't have a blackberry!) |
| 22:42:18 | warmi_work | I have 19 ... and it sucks big time ... not that I watch a lot of TV anywa |
| 22:42:37 | ksaj | has a 32 inch Tau - wicked TV... |
| 22:43:04 | ][N-Flux | has a 50" ezio plasma |
| 22:43:04 | NetAmp | whoa |
| 22:43:09 | warmi_work | ksaj: that might a shocker ... but , on the other hand, I do not plan to write software using Z .. |
| 22:43:22 | warmi_work | 50" ??? God almighty ... |
| 22:43:27 | ksaj | N-Flux certainly wins the Cool TV award... yeesh... |
| 22:43:28 | ][N-Flux | just kidding |
| 22:43:38 | ksaj | heh |
| 22:43:43 | ][N-Flux | looked one up for a client on friday, hot damn |
| 22:43:56 | ][N-Flux | 1600x1200 on a 50" would make me wet myself |
| 22:43:56 | NetAmp | hooks up his projector and displays his desktop on a side wall of his house |
| 22:44:17 | ksaj | I've seen the Plasma TVs. They look great, but of course at $30K, the better be good! |
| 22:44:22 | NetAmp | ][N-Flux: hahah |
| 22:44:33 | warmi_work | heh, NetAmp .... so you have a house as well ? man, I am so behind you .. |
| 22:44:38 | ][N-Flux | this is only 10K |
| 22:45:01 | NetAmp | warmi: wahaha, well yeah... but not a bigscreen TV ;) |
| 22:45:29 | ksaj | $10K tells me the prices are coming down then. The first time I saw one advertised was in the Robb Report. |
| 22:45:42 | ksaj | (Snobb Report) |
| 22:46:04 | warmi_work | $10K tells me that the prices still way a hell of lot to go .. |
| 22:46:15 | ksaj | warmi, heheh to true... |
| 22:46:34 | ][N-Flux | I actually have a lousy 27" daewoo |
| 22:46:49 | ][N-Flux | want to get a 27" flat from sharp actually |
| 22:46:59 | kergoth | hey |
| 22:47:13 | NetAmp | luckily a Zaurus doesn't cost $10K... ;) but still EUR 600 is pretty much (it would be like 1500 DFL) |
| 22:47:19 | warmi_work | N-Flux: you mean, you intend to win the contest ? |
| 22:47:35 | ][N-Flux | warmi_work: nope, gonna go buy this one :) |
| 22:47:52 | warmi_work | Net: EUR 600 ??? I thought it was like $500 or so ? |
| 22:47:59 | ][N-Flux | doesn't code, just gfx :)\ |
| 22:48:17 | NetAmp | warme: yeah I heard $550 but that's about 600 Euro for me :S |
| 22:48:45 | NetAmp | Samsung has a way cool 21" LCD TFT with big side speakers ;) |
| 22:49:52 | ksaj | I paid somewhere around $599 for mine (shipping included) |
| 22:50:14 | ksaj | I dunno what that works out into Euros... |
| 22:50:14 | NetAmp | ksaj: and where are you from if I may ask? |
| 22:50:27 | ksaj | I'm in Canada, but I bought th Zaurus from the US |
| 22:50:28 | warmi_work | I thought EURO was like 3:1 or something ... maybe I am confusing it with some other currency |
| 22:50:35 | NetAmp | I'm in Holland... so I wonder what the price will be here |
| 22:51:08 | warmi_work | oh, I know... I confused it with ZLOTY which is 3.5 for $ :-)) |
| 22:51:20 | NetAmp | ouch! Yahoo!Finance says $550 = 629.72 EURo :S |
| 22:51:32 | NetAmp | Rate 1.144951 |
| 22:52:23 | warmi_work | anyway.. I spend last 2 hours preparing my fried chicken which is now ready to be consumed .... |
| 22:52:33 | warmi_work | have fun :-) |
| 22:52:34 | warmi_work | bye |
| 22:52:46 | NetAmp | warmi: C-ya1 |
| 22:52:59 | ksaj | NetAmp: I ordered mine from the US, because Canada isn't so quick about adopting new toys |
| 22:53:12 | NetAmp | ksaj: ;-) |
| 22:53:47 | NetAmp | yeah but we also have different voltages... so I at least need a different adaptor I guess |
| 22:54:09 | NetAmp | 220V |
| 22:54:22 | NetAmp | (well I believe 220-230 actually) |
| 22:55:07 | NetAmp | So I think I'd better wait until they ship to Europe... wonder how long that'll take |
| 22:55:12 | scanline | is back (gone 21:44:07) |
| 22:55:20 | ksaj | Voltage barely matters now. Most adapters will do the proper conversion in North America and in Europe dispite the voltage difference. |
| 22:55:51 | ksaj | My laptop produces less heat when charging in Germany than it does here in Canada. :) |
| 22:56:00 | NetAmp | ksaj: *lol* |
| 22:59:22 | NetAmp | ponders the meaning of life... |
| 22:59:50 | ksaj | figures one can find the meaning of life on Ebay |
| 23:00:00 | NetAmp | wahaha |
| 23:02:42 | NetAmp | wow... this also gives meaning to life: http://www.trolltech.com/images/sharp/PDA_OPEN_PEN.jpg |
| 23:02:44 | NetAmp | ;-) |
| 23:03:05 | NetAmp | (900x1064 pixels image of a Zaurus) |
| 23:03:45 | ksaj | I want mine to come with the fake screen visuals too. ;) |
| 23:03:53 | NetAmp | HAHA |
| 23:03:57 | NetAmp | yeah! :D |
| 23:04:15 | NetAmp | but they did do a good job on those ;) |
| 23:04:31 | ksaj | It's a really good looking PDA. Bugs me that I can't have mine yet. I'm so selfish... |
| 23:04:40 | NetAmp | *LOL* |
| 23:04:47 | NetAmp | well me too, gheh |
| 23:05:34 | ksaj | Do I read this wrong, or is the On/Off and Cancel button one and the same? |
| 23:05:41 | NetAmp | yep |
| 23:05:43 | NetAmp | it is... |
| 23:07:08 | ksaj | I guess there is a mechanism (like holding it for an extended period) to differentiate between the two actions. Otherwise every time you hit "Cancel" to end the downloadng of a banner ad, you *really* might cancel out of it. |
| 23:07:19 | NetAmp | HAHA |
| 23:07:26 | NetAmp | yeah... hold it a few seconds |
| 23:08:01 | NetAmp | I like the looks of that keyboard... even though it's small |
| 23:08:12 | ksaj | What do the top icons mean - Applications, Fun stuff, ?????, Tools, and more ???? |
| 23:08:13 | NetAmp | more pics: http://www.trolltech.com/products/qtopia/sharpimg.html |
| 23:08:26 | NetAmp | ksaj: Those are tabs :) |
| 23:08:46 | NetAmp | ksaj: cool huh :D |
| 23:08:48 | ksaj | Okay wrong word, but what are the ones I refer to as ??? |
| 23:09:07 | NetAmp | uh... |
| 23:09:21 | NetAmp | I'm not sure about that 3rd one |
| 23:09:33 | NetAmp | but the last two are Settings/Configuration and Documents |
| 23:09:57 | ksaj | Yea, the red and blac one that looks kinda like a MIDI jack. I figured the last one has to do with documents, but wasn't sure what. |
| 23:10:33 | NetAmp | uh I guess it's somewhat like Windows' "My Documents" folder |
| 23:10:36 | ksaj | Kinda ironic that the Image Viewer has a magnifying glass on the icon. ;) |
| 23:10:42 | NetAmp | *lol* HAHA |
| 23:10:54 | NetAmp | yeah indeed, I hadn't thought of it that way yet ;) |
| 23:13:02 | ksaj | Have you seen the "virtual reality" picture? |
| 23:13:24 | NetAmp | uhm... at developer.sharpsec.com? |
| 23:14:28 | ksaj | Yea, that's the one. |
| 23:14:38 | NetAmp | Yeah I have! It's way cool :D |
| 23:14:43 | ksaj | It has a visor on it, but none of the other pictures do. |
| 23:15:06 | NetAmp | No... but it comes with it, don't worry |
| 23:15:19 | NetAmp | Only for Screen protection |
| 23:15:34 | ksaj | Maybe they are saying "if your cool, you'll remove the visor"... kinda like those pocket protectors... |
| 23:16:08 | NetAmp | hm yeah but I think that if I buy one, I'll put one of those "stick-on" protectors on the screen |
| 23:16:43 | ksaj | At $500 and change, I think I will be also. Being in Canada, that is more like $800 or so... |
| 23:16:51 | NetAmp | I'm not sure if it's necessary... but I guess using the stylus on the screen much won't improve the screen's readability... |
| 23:17:43 | ksaj | I have a feeling the stylus won't work through the visor |
| 23:19:18 | NetAmp | *lol* nope |
| 23:19:29 | NetAmp | it can't touch the screen then, can it ;) |
| 23:19:58 | ksaj | *touch* screen even... |
| 23:21:04 | NetAmp | ;) |
| 23:21:13 | NetAmp | yeah after all it is a touchscreen |
| 23:21:21 | ksaj | I definitely would expect that gcc (and family) are part of the software distribution. Some of the software I would like to have on the Zaurus are probably not all that typical. Ths probably goes for just about anyone who buys one. |
| 23:21:40 | NetAmp | that "flip-cover" is a plastic cover you can simply pull off |
| 23:22:03 | NetAmp | ksaj: yes... but for that you'd have to ask other people |
| 23:22:09 | ksaj | Fortunately the cover doesn't look ugly. I'll keep mine on. |
| 23:22:28 | NetAmp | since I have never actually been anywhere near a Z |
| 23:22:30 | NetAmp | :S |
| 23:22:31 | ksaj | ask other people for gcc? hmph! |
| 23:22:48 | NetAmp | ksaj: no ask if it comes with the standard package ;) |
| 23:22:58 | NetAmp | Or just wait & see :D |
| 23:23:03 | ksaj | I do penetration testing, and I think it would be awesome to go onsite with nothing but a PDA to do my work. |
| 23:24:32 | NetAmp | heh yeah that's cool |
| 23:24:35 | roge99 | ksaj: gcc for the z is available on sourceforge |
| 23:24:38 | ksaj | The tools I use for this are obviously not the same kind one would normally use. |
| 23:25:15 | NetAmp | I'll probably use it mostly as an organiser and for school work (and games ;-) |
| 23:25:26 | NetAmp | but indeed GCC would be nice |
| 23:25:33 | ksaj | roge99: I guess that's almost obvious nowdays, heh. Everything can be found at sourceforge! (I have spent countless hours there comparing different apps!) |
| 23:26:39 | roge99 | http://sourceforge.net/projects/zaurus |
| 23:26:49 | ksaj | In penetration testing, the software is usually a bit "darker" (for lack of a better word). A denial of service attack from a hand-held PDA would really drive the security point home, tho' |
| 23:27:02 | roge99 | i think that nmap has been ported as well |
| 23:27:14 | NetAmp | ghehe |
| 23:27:38 | ksaj | - sourceforge.../zaurus site bookmarked. It'll take a while to get through all that. :) |
| 23:27:54 | roge99 | yea theres lots o stuff there |
| 23:28:22 | ksaj | Nmap is great. I think that it is now considered a standard item to find in any Linux distribution. |
| 23:28:32 | roge99 | yea |
| 23:29:29 | ksaj | nmap and netcat are all one needs to do serious network hacking. :) |
| 23:29:43 | roge99 | theres a development env. how-to on Zauruszone with all the nessisary tool to set up a cross compile env |
| 23:30:33 | roge99 | although gcc packages are available the onboard memory is limited |
| 23:31:11 | ksaj | roge99: that's good to know, because I think it would be reasonable to assume that compiling something large on the Zaurus would be a somewhat instantaneous way to wear down the battery. |
| 23:31:30 | roge99 | i think you would run out of ram first |
| 23:32:13 | roge99 | unless you have a microdrive setup as swap |
| 23:32:17 | ksaj | Hmmm, I think your onto something - the Zaurus probably doe not use virtual memory |
| 23:32:44 | roge99 | swap on flash is generaly not a good idea |
| 23:34:00 | ksaj | I have a good developer system set up here, so I think I'll go through the motions and set this up for cross compiling... let the Zaurus do what it does best, and my workhorse PeeCee can do the compiling. |
| 23:34:07 | NetAmp | ksaj: have you seen the Qtopia screenshots? |
| 23:34:08 | NetAmp | http://www.trolltech.com/products/qtopia/screenshots.html |
| 23:34:42 | roge99 | yea theres some rpms and a step by step how too ... I hear it cake to set up |
| 23:34:58 | ksaj | Yea, I saw the screenshots when you posted them here, and saved a few. I still say those fake screens look *great*, heh. Anyway kidding aside, the pics just make me want the thing more... |
| 23:35:26 | NetAmp | ksaj: No not of the Zaurus, but the general Qtopia screens |
| 23:35:32 | roge99 | bbiab -- dinner |
| 23:35:32 | ksaj | (oops, to the MPAA folks - I did not mean to say I *saved* the pictures...) |
| 23:35:48 | ksaj | see ya roge |
| 23:36:10 | NetAmp | heh, indeed I want it even more now. The only 2 things that hold me back are the availability here (which is null/void) and the price |
| 23:36:56 | ksaj | Okay, so those pictures answer one more of the mystery questions - the last tab *is* for documents... |
| 23:37:48 | NetAmp | gheh ;) |
| 23:37:50 | ksaj | heh, one would *never* mistake that "Sample" game for Monopoly! |
| 23:38:34 | ksaj | Very strange - the remaining tab is not shown at all on this page. |
| 23:39:28 | NetAmp | hm |
| 23:39:29 | NetAmp | well |
| 23:39:38 | NetAmp | that'll remain a mystery for now then :) |
| 23:40:02 | ksaj | Heh... I'll be pissed if I click on it and it says "Not Yet Available" |
| 23:41:19 | NetAmp | *lol* |
| 23:43:17 | NetAmp | "When Qtopia boots on your handheld, the familiar calibration dialog appears... get ready to use the Qtopia Environment!" |
| 23:43:27 | NetAmp | Just that already seems exciting ;) |
| 23:43:30 | NetAmp | heh |
| 23:44:06 | ksaj | Hmm, since it has all this networking support, I wonder if you need to use a usb nic? |
| 23:44:17 | NetAmp | hm dunno |
| 23:44:39 | NetAmp | but you can connect through the USB port on the docking station |
| 23:45:10 | ksaj | Obviosly it will work (or you can have fun telnetting to localhost!) so I'm not too concerned. I hope there is a way of connecting the nic without using the cradle/docking station |
| 23:45:54 | NetAmp | I'm not sure... I haven't seen pictures of the bottom of the Zaurus |
| 23:46:06 | NetAmp | so I don't know what kind of connector is at the bottom |
| 23:46:08 | ksaj | heh "... and play videos in full-screen image mode" I just thought that sounds funny for a 1/4 VGA screen. |
| 23:46:51 | NetAmp | yeah but it's still full-screen! ;) |
| 23:47:38 | ksaj | Have you seen those IBM WatchPads? I suspect *everything* has to be full-screen for those. |
| 23:47:52 | NetAmp | hm no haven't seen those |
| 23:48:48 | NetAmp | Setting up the Network - http://www.myzaurus.com/tips_Network.asp |
| 23:48:51 | ksaj | Well, they are wristwatches that run embedded Linux. They ony have 3 buttons, and the pic on the frond of Linux Journal shows them with a street map on the display. Now *that* is a tiny map. |
| 23:49:05 | NetAmp | (Though that's only the software part of the Network Setup) |
| 23:49:23 | NetAmp | haha yeah that's tiny ;) |
| 23:50:36 | ksaj | that URL doesn't seem to work |
| 23:50:49 | NetAmp | http://www.myzaurus.com/ |
| 23:51:20 | ksaj | doh! Spelling gremlins... |
| 23:51:38 | ksaj | it works now. |
| 23:51:44 | NetAmp | :) |
| 23:52:04 | NetAmp | you could've clicked it, or use Copy&Paste ;-) |
| 23:52:07 | NetAmp | :P |
| 23:52:35 | ksaj | Ah yes, except that I'm using multiple computers. |
| 23:52:55 | ksaj | dammit... the pictures on that page show the mystery tab, too. ;) |
| 23:53:50 | NetAmp | haha |
| 23:54:54 | ksaj | Wow... they already have software you can *purchase* for the Zaurus... |
| 23:55:02 | NetAmp | :S |
| 23:57:33 | ksaj | Yup, they have a network card. Good stuff. |
| 23:58:07 | NetAmp | "Sharp currently expects the Zaurus SL-5500 to begin hitting shelves in March 2002, for a retail price $549. That model includes 64MB of RAM memory (in contrast to the early "developer" model SL-5000, which had 32MB of RAM), along with 16MB of built-in Flash storage. |
| 23:58:08 | NetAmp | " |
| 23:58:18 | NetAmp | (source: Linuxdevices.com) |
| 23:58:28 | NetAmp | hm |
| 23:58:41 | ksaj | Yea, I saw that, which is why I waited for the release version. |
| 23:58:50 | ksaj | March 22nd is the day... |
| 23:58:56 | NetAmp | I wonder... |
| 23:59:03 | NetAmp | about that tab |
| 23:59:09 | scanline | is away: food-like substances, i think |
| 23:59:12 | ksaj | heh |
| 23:59:26 | NetAmp | I thought I had a review that listed the tabs |
| 23:59:34 | NetAmp | but I don't remember that one being there... |
| 23:59:53 | NetAmp | I guess they put it there on purpose, in the *fake* screen pics |
