| 00:01:12 | mtm | brett: does that SMC card work with the normal ROM, or only with OZ? |
| 00:11:17 | cpenguin_work | is away: Uh, oh... I dropped the pin |
| 00:25:10 | Heath | Hey guys |
| 00:26:29 | ljp | hi |
| 00:26:42 | Heath | hows it going? |
| 00:27:00 | ljp | great- I just got home from work! and you? |
| 00:27:11 | Heath | Same think. |
| 00:27:16 | Heath | thing* |
| 00:33:07 | Heath | Whelp, my dinner just got ready, so I am going to eat now. |
| 00:34:21 | scanline | is back (gone 00:42:16) |
| 01:00:17 | kendrick2 | wooot |
| 01:02:28 | kendrick2 | http://www.sonic.net/~nbs/madbomber-sideways.gif |
| 01:30:14 | peanut | waves |
| 01:30:32 | ljp | hello |
| 01:32:38 | peanut | ahh.. phoebes is singing smelly cat |
| 01:32:39 | peanut | hehehe |
| 01:34:01 | tux_mike | hrm.... |
| 01:34:06 | tux_mike | hrm hrm hrm |
| 01:46:57 | ljp | my executable size keeps growning!!! |
| 01:47:47 | MSpin | strip?:) |
| 01:47:48 | Neo|Work | What is an "average sized" executable on Z? |
| 01:49:39 | tux_mike | i'd say between 100-300kB |
| 01:50:10 | peanut | speaking of size.. |
| 01:50:22 | peanut | is df working correctly yet? |
| 01:50:28 | peanut | ie. showing size of the cramfs partition |
| 01:50:54 | Fastolfe | tux_mike: that's not counting the libs, which in the case of Trolltech's, are huge |
| 01:51:56 | tux_mike | well, the TT libs are in rom. if they exist on the unit, i wouldn't count them |
| 01:52:03 | Fastolfe | yeah |
| 01:52:21 | Neo|Work | tux_mike: and it has a 8 MB "disk"? |
| 01:52:41 | tux_mike | i dunno the size off hand. |
| 01:52:51 | Neo|Work | I thought I read 8 MB flash somewhere |
| 01:53:17 | tux_mike | no, 16m flash, but that's for the system rom (now read only) |
| 01:53:35 | tux_mike | there's the ramdisk, but i dunno how big it is |
| 01:53:54 | Neo|Work | so the 32 (64) MB "memory" is combined memory and disk? |
| 01:54:03 | peanut | no.. |
| 01:54:12 | Neo|Work | is confused. :-) |
| 01:54:13 | tux_mike | in a way |
| 01:54:14 | peanut | 16mb rom, 32mb ram in developer, 16mb rom, 64mb ram in prosumer |
| 01:54:36 | peanut | in the developer model some of the ram is used for disk space |
| 01:54:39 | tux_mike | well, it's used for both RAM and storage space |
| 01:54:51 | peanut | tux_mike :) |
| 01:54:58 | Neo|Work | tux_mike: that's what I meant |
| 01:55:02 | peanut | thats why i was commenting on df |
| 01:55:11 | peanut | the df in 1.02 and oz has so far been broken.. |
| 01:55:18 | peanut | otherwise, df and free would paint an accurate picture |
| 01:55:19 | tux_mike | it has |
| 01:55:21 | tux_mike | ? |
| 01:56:25 | peanut | huh? |
| 01:56:36 | tux_mike | the df, has been broken? |
| 01:56:38 | Neo|Work | my binary is 53 KB so far, but the data files are currently 3x that |
| 01:56:40 | peanut | yes.. |
| 01:56:49 | tux_mike | NeoTron: what's the prog? |
| 01:56:55 | tux_mike | Neo|Work |
| 01:56:56 | peanut | it doesn't report the cramfs partitions |
| 01:57:01 | Neo|Work | tux_mike: puzzle game. |
| 01:57:03 | peanut | if i'm wrong someone correct me :) |
| 01:57:28 | Neo|Work | graphics is 32 bpp PNG. Problem is that I use the alpha channel so if I use 8 bpp I get only 1 bit alpha and it looks bad |
| 01:57:59 | tux_mike | Neo|Work: any compression? |
| 01:58:18 | Neo|Work | tux_mike: png so it's zlib (using the highest compression level) |
| 01:58:33 | tux_mike | you have selected the highest in creation? |
| 01:58:47 | Neo|Work | yes |
| 01:59:06 | tux_mike | how many pngs do you have? |
| 01:59:18 | Neo|Work | 20 or so |
| 01:59:29 | Neo|Work | largest one is 40 KB (and it's an 8-bpp one) |
| 01:59:33 | tux_mike | ouch |
| 01:59:45 | Fastolfe | what size ? |
| 02:00:10 | Neo|Work | 240x320 |
| 02:00:16 | Fastolfe | it's normal then |
| 02:00:40 | Fastolfe | you'll only get lower if you use lossy jpeg |
| 02:00:42 | Neo|Work | I just reduced it to 16 colors which looks pretty much the same and it went down to 27 KB. if I could use JPEG, that'd one work great. :P |
| 02:01:01 | Fastolfe | Y not ? |
| 02:01:04 | Neo|Work | it seems like the downloaded Qtopia SDK doesn't have JPEG support |
| 02:01:10 | tux_mike | if this is a background image, i'd suggest jpeg |
| 02:01:11 | Fastolfe | libjpeg is on the Z |
| 02:01:17 | Neo|Work | loading == doesn't work |
| 02:01:17 | Fastolfe | I use it with fbvncserver |
| 02:01:37 | Fastolfe | hmm |
| 02:01:40 | Fastolfe | yes it does :) |
| 02:01:49 | Neo|Work | not for me, in the x86 environment |
| 02:01:56 | Neo|Work | in either case, not too worried about it right now |
| 02:02:02 | Fastolfe | k |
| 02:02:25 | Fastolfe | My X timezone/worldclock thing for X has a jpeg to display the world map |
| 02:02:30 | Fastolfe | it loads it up using the lib |
| 02:03:01 | Fastolfe | =malloc(sizeof(rfbScreenInfo)) |
| 02:03:03 | Fastolfe | oops |
| 02:03:05 | Fastolfe | crap :( |
| 02:03:11 | Neo|Work | the bigger problem though are all the pics using truecolor PNG with 8-bit alpha |
| 02:03:33 | Neo|Work | since those aren't easily convertable to jpeg or 8-bit PNG |
| 02:03:43 | Fastolfe | yeah |
| 02:03:47 | Fastolfe | graphics == pain |
| 02:03:58 | tux_mike | Neo|Work: do you have any shots of your game? |
| 02:04:20 | Neo|Work | can make one.. |
| 02:05:26 | tux_mike | i don't want to make any suggestions on not seeing how it works :) |
| 02:06:16 | Neo|Work | http://david.hedbor.org/tmp/snapshot.png |
| 02:07:06 | Neo|Work | http://david.hedbor.org/tmp/screenshots.html too |
| 02:07:28 | ljp | MSpin: yep.. with strip its sitting at 486948. But Hancom's 'Presenter viewer' is 1127644, so I dont feel so bad. :) |
| 02:08:29 | peanut | ljp: damn |
| 02:08:31 | tux_mike | Neo|Work: looks good. can't you have the pieces blend with the backround being a different image type? |
| 02:08:39 | peanut | 1mb |
| 02:08:44 | MSpin | ljp: what does that thing do anyways?:) |
| 02:08:48 | peanut | ppt viewer |
| 02:08:50 | ljp | presenter? |
| 02:08:51 | MSpin | is it what I think it is:) |
| 02:09:06 | Neo|Work | tux_mike: I can convert them to use plan 1-bit alpha and probably should but they are just scaled versions of the larger ones |
| 02:09:18 | ljp | I dunno... like a presentation viewer thingy |
| 02:09:20 | Neo|Work | tux_mike: the gfx is done by another guy. :P |
| 02:09:29 | BZFlag | JasonNJ_sleep: been swamped today, probably will not have a jffs2 OZ tonight. |
| 02:09:32 | tux_mike | ah |
| 02:09:47 | Neo|Work | in either case, that can be tweaked later so. :P |
| 02:09:54 | tux_mike | well, i like the smooth trans... |
| 02:10:18 | ljp | Neo: How'd you get the qlcd? |
| 02:10:21 | Neo|Work | question is how much of a difference it would do not to have it |
| 02:10:26 | Neo|Work | on such a small display |
| 02:10:58 | Neo|Work | each game piece is between 1K and 1.8k so it's not that much of a problem |
| 02:11:21 | ljp | I though qlcd wasn't in qtopia |
| 02:11:51 | Neo|Work | ljp: well, it's just temporary in either case. Easy display for score while concentrating on other stuff |
| 02:12:43 | ljp | I suppose you can import that .. |
| 02:12:58 | ljp | looks good, tho.. what is it? |
| 02:13:17 | peanut | is anyone using hancom office 2.0? |
| 02:13:24 | peanut | is anyone waiting for the pro version? |
| 02:13:49 | Neo|Work | ljp: puzzle game. have a windows/linux version using SDL and ParaGUI. the QPE port is more of a rewrite |
| 02:15:18 | Fastolfe | Dammit I hate when people don't free what they malloc :( |
| 02:15:42 | Neo|Work | ah, after some tweaking it's "only" using some 85KB for pics. not too bad. |
| 02:15:48 | Fastolfe | lol |
| 02:16:17 | Fastolfe | NeoTron: if I have to lose *ALL* that space on my Z, I expect to see a nice babe in the background :) |
| 02:16:26 | Neo|Work | Fastolfe: hehe |
| 02:17:32 | Neo|Work | actually, it's 70 KB - 85 KB is counting the block size waste |
| 02:17:48 | Fastolfe | ah shame shame everybody knows your name ... |
| 02:18:20 | Fastolfe | say, couldn't you draw the main board dynamically ? that would save space |
| 02:18:24 | Fastolfe | and make the app resizeable |
| 02:19:04 | Neo|Work | Fastolfe: the desktop version does. |
| 02:19:13 | Fastolfe | cool bananas |
| 02:19:21 | Neo|Work | however if you look closely, the board has an overlay which gives it less of a uniform look |
| 02:19:34 | Neo|Work | and that'd still be needed for "great looks" ;-PP |
| 02:19:52 | Fastolfe | NeoTron: not if you use texture mapping |
| 02:19:54 | Neo|Work | the board image is just under 9K now |
| 02:20:06 | Fastolfe | vi main.c |
| 02:20:08 | Fastolfe | DAMN |
| 02:20:10 | Fastolfe | sorry |
| 02:20:12 | Neo|Work | heh |
| 02:20:18 | Neo|Work | texture mapping? what do you mean? |
| 02:20:33 | tux_mike | Neo|Work: what exactly is the 40k image? |
| 02:20:43 | Fastolfe | well, you know, you have a texture pattern and you tile/resize it appropriately |
| 02:20:44 | Neo|Work | it was the background |
| 02:20:50 | Neo|Work | I reduced it to 26K now |
| 02:20:55 | Neo|Work | as jpeg it'd be smaller |
| 02:21:00 | tux_mike | the metal pattern? |
| 02:21:04 | Fastolfe | yeah |
| 02:21:09 | Fastolfe | any pattern |
| 02:21:22 | Neo|Work | Fastolfe: the texture (alpha transparent PNG today) is the size of the board. It's not tiled. :P |
| 02:21:30 | Neo|Work | tux_mike: yes |
| 02:21:32 | Fastolfe | Neo|Work: I know :) |
| 02:21:41 | Fastolfe | Hi Jason |
| 02:21:47 | tux_mike | Neo|Work: another thing, only have one or two segments of the metal pattern and repeat them |
| 02:21:49 | JasonNJ | heya fastolfe |
| 02:21:55 | tux_mike | why have a repeating imag |
| 02:21:56 | JasonNJ | how goes your VNC framebuffer |
| 02:22:00 | tux_mike | e |
| 02:22:11 | Neo|Work | tux_mike: problem again - I didn't make the graphics and it's not tilable at the moment. :P |
| 02:22:18 | Fastolfe | JasonNJ: I basically have to fix the entire stupid VNC server library |
| 02:22:18 | tux_mike | gah |
| 02:22:24 | tux_mike | find new graphics :) |
| 02:22:29 | Fastolfe | JasonNJ: it's owner doesn't seem to care about it anymore |
| 02:22:33 | BigBoss | evening kids |
| 02:22:38 | Neo|Work | tux_mike: I might have the guy make special gfx for it, yes |
| 02:23:06 | Fastolfe | JasonNJ: and to top it all off, one of the marketdroid in the company saw my annoucement and decided they wanted to use the server at LinuxWorld, so now I really have to fix it :) |
| 02:23:45 | JasonNJ | oh oh |
| 02:23:55 | JasonNJ | you gotta get the screen input to work too and the keyboard |
| 02:24:15 | Fastolfe | yeah, that's no big deal. But the lib leaks memory by the bucket |
| 02:24:52 | Fastolfe | I was hoping to write my own to replace it, but now I have a deadline, damn marketing people |
| 02:25:04 | Fastolfe | I wish they didn't jump on everything like it was working |
| 02:27:22 | Neo|Work | hm. is there a way to make a widget transparent? (i.e how the contents of the widget below it for areas otherwise not occupied) |
| 02:29:15 | Neo|Work | never the less, going home. cya later tonight |
| 02:29:21 | Fastolfe | seeya |
| 02:29:57 | JasonNJ_sleep | rgh |
| 02:30:01 | BigBoss | fastolfe: what is it your doing? |
| 02:30:14 | Fastolfe | I'm fixing my framebuffer VNC server |
| 02:31:59 | Jag | Man... In one day Version announces G3 service in my area, Zaurus gets a release date, and a CF Type II G3 card becomes available..... |
| 02:32:03 | Jag | Destiny speaks |
| 02:32:04 | tux_mike | hrm... i wonder if this is gonna work |
| 02:32:16 | JasonNJ | that g3 service is a load of crap |
| 02:32:23 | tux_mike | Z got a release date? |
| 02:32:24 | Jag | How so? |
| 02:32:25 | JasonNJ | and that Z release date is NOT official |
| 02:32:35 | JasonNJ | NOBODY on my staff spoke to LinuxDevices. |
| 02:33:00 | Fastolfe | Rick Lehrbaum is often full of crap with annoucements |
| 02:33:10 | Fastolfe | he did that to me several times |
| 02:33:11 | Jag | JasonNJ: Is it wrong? |
| 02:33:24 | JasonNJ | the release date has not been announced. |
| 02:33:31 | Jag | Hmmm |
| 02:33:31 | JasonNJ | it may very well be in march, but it might not be |
| 02:33:48 | Jag | In that case, I'm guessing the current plan is a March target |
| 02:33:49 | Fastolfe | I bet Jason knows :)) |
| 02:33:52 | tux_mike | i so want one of these set top box dvd r machines |
| 02:34:03 | Jag | But no guarenttes |
| 02:34:17 | ljp | sounds like a PR nightmare, Jason |
| 02:34:39 | Jag | Now then, why's G3 a load of crap? |
| 02:35:09 | tux_mike | well, the Verison is slower than G3 is supposed to be |
| 02:35:20 | Fastolfe | I think the lack of response says plenty :)) |
| 02:36:47 | Jag | Not to me... I really don't know whats wrong with it |
| 02:36:55 | Jag | It sounds like a good thing to me |
| 02:37:35 | Jag | It's gotta be better than cellular modems |
| 02:43:26 | tux_mike | yah, with CDMA i get 6000-9600bps |
| 02:43:32 | tux_mike | ungodly slow |
| 02:46:54 | Jag | If I got 100K, significantly slower than the mobile speed of 144 for G3. I would be totally stoked |
| 02:53:10 | tux_mike | G3 is __supposed__ to be 2Mbps |
| 02:53:20 | tux_mike | like anyone's gonna implement that |
| 02:53:30 | tux_mike | i just hope sprint will have 3g in Chi |
| 02:53:32 | Jag | Depends on how your using it as I understand it |
| 02:54:11 | Jag | I think they say it maxs at 144K/388K/2M for vehicular mobile/pedetrian mobile/indoor stationary |
| 02:55:00 | Jag | The only thing that spooks me is the networks ability to determine your physical position |
| 02:55:10 | Jag | Don't much like that |
| 02:59:16 | Jag | is away: Bed |
| 03:01:48 | peanut | yawns |
| 03:07:19 | v23 | hello. my email client on the Z can't send emails. It always says "Unknown response from server" ROM: OpenZ Beta2. Can someone help? Thanks. |
| 03:08:17 | fletch00 | Does anyone know if Verizon's G3 PC-Card is compact flash? I guess it would be since it's supposed to work with PDAs. |
| 03:25:12 | sjohnson | fletch00: PC-CArd generally indicates a PCMCIA card and not CF |
| 03:27:29 | sjohnson | tux_mike: The 2MB G3 speed can only be obtained if you are stationary. |
| 03:39:24 | whardier | 3LALA LA LA LA LA LAAL AL LA LA LA LALLAALLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
| 03:39:32 | whardier | I HAVE RETURNED! |
| 03:39:35 | whardier | brb |
| 03:41:12 | Fastolfe | oh my god |
| 03:41:31 | Fastolfe | the crazed island dweller is back, kicking bottoms or what ! |
| 03:46:47 | whardier | people keep looking over my shoulder |
| 03:46:52 | whardier | wondering if this IRC thing is coding |
| 03:46:58 | whardier | stupid fucking ingrates |
| 03:46:58 | Fastolfe | damn, I managed to reduce the memory leak in fbvncserver by half ! |
| 03:47:09 | Fastolfe | lol |
| 03:47:13 | Fastolfe | why hello whardier |
| 03:47:23 | whardier | farts in response |
| 03:47:42 | Fastolfe | says "NI" to whardier |
| 03:47:57 | Fastolfe | brb cigarette break |
| 03:48:33 | kergoth | greetings. |
| 03:53:30 | ljp | hi |
| 03:53:54 | Fastolfe | free()ing up what you malloc() |
| 03:53:56 | Fastolfe | what a concept |
| 03:54:01 | Fastolfe | I gotta use it more often |
| 03:55:25 | ljp | yep.. free is nice! |
| 03:56:08 | Fastolfe | I've got to tell it to the guy who did the libvncserver |
| 03:56:24 | Fastolfe | I'm sure he'll love the idea |
| 03:57:06 | kergoth | lol.. thats just sad |
| 03:57:30 | kergoth | shit shit shit |
| 03:57:46 | Fastolfe | yeah, check out this comment from the README : |
| 03:57:48 | Fastolfe | /* TODO: hang up on all clients and free all reserved memory */ |
| 03:57:51 | Fastolfe | idiot |
| 03:57:55 | kergoth | aha |
| 03:58:00 | kergoth | wtf |
| 03:58:05 | kergoth | i forgot my Z power adapter at work. arg! |
| 03:58:08 | ljp | well,, ya know... everything gets free'd when you reboot, anyway! |
| 03:58:23 | kergoth | ljp: lol.. windows atitude ;-) |
| 03:58:27 | Fastolfe | ljp: yeah hell-whatever found that out yesterday :) |
| 03:59:08 | kergoth | damnit I cant test my OZ beta 2.6 bugfix rom |
| 03:59:11 | kergoth | grumbles |
| 03:59:17 | Fastolfe | ljp: with my latest fix, I can run the server over 5 minutes with 32 megs |
| 03:59:19 | Fastolfe | i love it |
| 03:59:22 | Fastolfe | :) |
| 03:59:48 | kergoth | Fastolfe: congrats. hehe. progress. |
| 03:59:55 | Fastolfe | yeah :) |
| 04:00:04 | ljp | 5 minutes is progress? |
| 04:00:14 | Fastolfe | I suspect zlib leaks all over the place tho |
| 04:00:22 | Fastolfe | and I ain't fixing zlib |
| 04:00:24 | Fastolfe | no way |
| 04:00:39 | Fastolfe | ljp: it was 2 minutes before :) |
| 04:01:12 | whardier | I think I am gonna make the television station here run off of perl+SDL |
| 04:01:40 | Fastolfe | whardier: you're crazy, let the damn penguins run the tv station |
| 04:01:58 | whardier | there are none here |
| 04:02:10 | whardier | I heard that you should never get in front of a penguin |
| 04:02:25 | Fastolfe | Yeah, just ask Linus :)) |
| 04:02:26 | whardier | those things can go > 80mph and there are sometimes > 3 feet tall |
| 04:02:54 | Fastolfe | Linus got bitten by one of the buggers in the Helsinki zoo |
| 04:06:47 | brett | mtm: Works with the normal rom. You need to add an entry for it though. |
| 04:06:49 | brett | kergoth, looks like the wireless extension support works. |
| 04:06:51 | brett | kergoth`away: Is the build system working correctly? |
| 04:06:55 | brett | What is that kendrick? |
| 04:07:08 | Fastolfe | holy crap, is that lag or what |
| 04:07:53 | v23 | Hi, I can't send email from the Z. receiving OK, can ping mail server, but no send. Any ideas please? |
| 04:08:16 | Fastolfe | trace it |
| 04:08:22 | Fastolfe | ethereal is your friend |
| 04:08:46 | kergoth | brett: glad to hear it. the buildsystem is working happily for the components we have functional.. glibc, busybox, tinylogin, the kernel, a few others.. |
| 04:08:54 | Fastolfe | can you telnet to your smtp server at port 25 from your Z ? |
| 04:09:03 | v23 | let me see. |
| 04:09:11 | kergoth | brett: if you want to send me the ./configure command, make command, and any env variables you had to set to crosscompile, i can create the .mk, or you can.. up to you |
| 04:10:29 | v23 | Fastolfe: yes. I could log in to the smtp server with telnet. |
| 04:10:33 | Fastolfe | hmm |
| 04:10:40 | Fastolfe | with HELO ? |
| 04:11:10 | v23 | it replied with "hello <servername>" |
| 04:11:14 | Fastolfe | k |
| 04:11:23 | Fastolfe | hmm strange that |
| 04:11:32 | Fastolfe | what does the mail client say ? |
| 04:11:48 | v23 | It says "Unknown response from the server" |
| 04:12:11 | Fastolfe | yeah, well, at that point I'd look at a TCP dump if I were you |
| 04:12:22 | Fastolfe | see what response it pukes on |
| 04:12:36 | JasonNJ | kerg: you dont have a beta for me yet do ya |
| 04:12:48 | v23 | k thanks |
| 04:13:22 | Fastolfe | My got that code is disgusting |
| 04:13:33 | kergoth | JasonNJ: we wont have a version with jffs2 for a while yet.. |
| 04:13:39 | JasonNJ | agggh/ |
| 04:13:46 | kergoth | JasonNJ: I'm waiting on Lineo. |
| 04:13:47 | Fastolfe | BZF told me Casey is working on it |
| 04:13:54 | kergoth | Fastolfe: yeah that :-) |
| 04:14:01 | Fastolfe | BZF is swamped with the Vercell |
| 04:14:09 | JasonNJ | yeah I heard. |
| 04:14:17 | JasonNJ | is the vercel nice? |
| 04:14:18 | kergoth | JasonNJ: I may do a oz beta 2.6 bugfix release to clean up the broken games and wlan stuff, and add a couple minor items. |
| 04:14:23 | roge99 | kergoth: don't strip the modules this time ... ;-) |
| 04:14:29 | Fastolfe | JasonNJ: I'd buy a vercell over the Z any day |
| 04:14:30 | kergoth | roge99: grr :-P |
| 04:14:35 | roge99 | hehehe |
| 04:14:36 | JasonNJ | Fast: REALLY? |
| 04:14:58 | Fastolfe | JasonNJ: it's got a folding keyboard that is very nice, and a landscape LCD screen |
| 04:15:04 | Fastolfe | it's sexyyy |
| 04:15:06 | JasonNJ | heh. |
| 04:15:18 | JasonNJ | well we have something that will kick its ass during the summer. |
| 04:15:28 | JasonNJ | it will be my bitch. |
| 04:15:32 | Fastolfe | heh |
| 04:15:33 | Fastolfe | lol |
| 04:15:47 | Fastolfe | I like the vercell because I'm after the geek factor |
| 04:15:56 | Fastolfe | the Z with the sliding kbd thing is cool |
| 04:16:08 | Fastolfe | but the vercell with the folding thing is like a James Bond toy |
| 04:16:13 | Fastolfe | it's really really cool |
| 04:16:15 | JasonNJ | hmm. |
| 04:16:27 | JasonNJ | thing is we are already working on the next Z |
| 04:16:34 | JasonNJ | codename is "warrior" |
| 04:16:44 | Fastolfe | or codewarrior is "name" |
| 04:16:45 | Fastolfe | whatever |
| 04:17:18 | Fastolfe | The thing is, the Vercell isn't in the same space as the Z |
| 04:17:25 | JasonNJ | we also have "soccer mom" and "rockstar" in development |
| 04:17:39 | Fastolfe | folded, it's like a large steak, where the Z is supposed to go in your shirt pocket |
| 04:17:56 | Fastolfe | "soccer mom" eh |
| 04:18:38 | Fastolfe | jeezus, I'm tracing the server and it does 1 free for every 1000 mallocs |
| 04:18:46 | Fastolfe | burk |
| 04:18:50 | Fastolfe | pukes |
| 04:19:32 | kergoth | Fastolfe: thats horrid |
| 04:19:37 | Fastolfe | yeah no shit |
| 04:21:21 | roge99 | Fastolfe: you said the original maintainer abandoned it ? |
| 04:21:40 | JasonNJ | I sent vercel's press rep a request for a review unit for Linux Mag |
| 04:21:53 | JasonNJ | I wonder if they will send me one given my current relationship with Sharp |
| 04:22:32 | Fastolfe | it's not abandoned, because the last rev is Jan 2002, but (1) it's the 4th release of that library with memory leaks, so I have a hunch that the guy doesn't really care, and (2) he doesn't seem to fix the bugs that have been reported on SF |
| 04:25:00 | JasonNJ | hmm 27th of jan konq-e snapshot |
| 04:25:09 | JasonNJ | who wants to place bets it dont work on the Z again |
| 04:25:16 | Fastolfe | I bet it dont |
| 04:25:19 | Fastolfe | $10 |
| 04:25:21 | Fastolfe | 10 to 1 |
| 04:25:29 | kergoth | heh. well we told him about the problem.. the question is, did he fix it |
| 04:25:33 | JasonNJ | I bet he built it with the wrong dependencies again |
| 04:25:48 | kergoth | probably. i'll be adding it to my buildsystem for opie to build our own ver of konq/e |
| 04:25:54 | kergoth | heh |
| 04:26:28 | sjohnson | What is this Vercell? Vercell Bio? |
| 04:26:35 | Fastolfe | a new pda |
| 04:26:42 | sjohnson | URL? |
| 04:26:48 | JasonNJ | vercel.com |
| 04:26:52 | Fastolfe | lol |
| 04:26:53 | JasonNJ | has very little info on it |
| 04:27:05 | JasonNJ | the inventor of the furby designed it |
| 04:27:12 | JasonNJ | built my AMI motherboards |
| 04:27:18 | Fastolfe | Jason, you met the guy ? |
| 04:27:26 | JasonNJ | I know who he is |
| 04:27:39 | Fastolfe | he always carries furbies around in his briefcase |
| 04:27:47 | JasonNJ | he must be a sick fuck. |
| 04:27:55 | Fastolfe | tries to give one to you with his autograph all the time :)) |
| 04:28:05 | JasonNJ | I hate the furby. |
| 04:28:10 | Fastolfe | so do I |
| 04:28:10 | JasonNJ | my wife bought one |
| 04:28:19 | JasonNJ | blasted thing never shut up |
| 04:28:24 | Fastolfe | They can't be hacked with the hardware that's in it |
| 04:28:32 | JasonNJ | so I took it out back and used a 12 gauge on it |
| 04:28:39 | Fastolfe | lolol |
| 04:28:57 | JasonNJ | e may u-nye... KABOOM! |
| 04:29:03 | Fastolfe | When I did the CueCat driver, I nearly got sued my the manufacturer of the thing |
| 04:29:14 | Fastolfe | so I did the same with a bunch of cuecats and sent them the video :) |
| 04:31:11 | sjohnson | OK. Chalk vercel.com as a very annoying web site that doesn't tell me anything. |
| 04:31:32 | Fastolfe | uuh my program works, gotta be something wrong ... |
| 04:31:36 | JasonNJ | he fixed it. |
| 04:31:43 | JasonNJ | jan 27 runs. |
| 04:31:47 | ljp | heh- my neice had a furby,,.. she had it 5 minutes, and it said it was thirsty.. so she gave it water... :) |
| 04:31:52 | kergoth | JasonNJ: excellent. |
| 04:32:30 | Fastolfe | ah! I knew it, the cursor is a mess now |
| 04:32:33 | Fastolfe | hhhrrrnnnnn ! |
| 04:33:59 | Fastolfe | STUPID CRAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 04:34:27 | Drago | to buy r |
| 04:34:30 | Drago | or not to buy |
| 04:34:31 | Drago | hmmm |
| 04:36:22 | ljp | buy |
| 04:36:48 | Drago | it looks like there isnt going to be an upgrade path either eh? |
| 04:37:15 | ljp | not hardwrae wise |
| 04:37:29 | ljp | 'maybe' a discount |
| 04:37:41 | ljp | but I wouldn't hold me breath on it |
| 04:37:49 | Drago | yea, thats what really worries me |
| 04:38:11 | Drago | i want something i can hack on and also put in my pocket and snowboard with |
| 04:38:28 | Drago | is it a sturdy device? assuming i dont take any catastophic spills |
| 04:38:37 | ljp | heh- it should be good as long as you dont land on it! |
| 04:38:51 | ljp | well, it IS plastic |
| 04:39:22 | Drago | i have a terrible track record too hehe |
| 04:39:35 | Drago | anyone wanna buy an ipaq with a cracked lcd? :) |
| 04:39:42 | ljp | geta padded case |
| 04:39:43 | Fastolfe | ljp: that doesn't mean anything : I took a 10 ft fall and landed on my Mavica, and it broke my ribs, but still works fine |
| 04:40:21 | Drago | i am so tempted to whip ou the credit card and just do it |
| 04:40:35 | Fastolfe | steal it, it's cheaper |
| 04:40:40 | MSpin | Fastolfe: does that say something about the quality of the Mavica...or your ribs?:0 |
| 04:40:41 | Drago | it looked like it can be returned if i am unhappy with it, or is there some exception on the devel versions? |
| 04:40:53 | ljp | if you wait a month or so, and get the 5500, you'll get 64 mb ram |
| 04:41:16 | Drago | what is the 5500 going to retail for? |
| 04:41:29 | Fastolfe | MSpin: the Mavica is indestructible is what I meant :)) As for me, I'm a large enough beef that I thought computer equipment would never resist me like that :) |
| 04:41:31 | JasonNJ | between 499 and 549. |
| 04:41:36 | Drago | or at a developer discount, if they plan on giving one on the retail version |
| 04:43:04 | Drago | anyone have any/know of any side by side shots with a palm or a pocketpc? |
| 04:43:41 | Fastolfe | no but I can tell you the iPAQ is rather heftier |
| 04:43:42 | Fastolfe | and thicker |
| 04:44:17 | Drago | i just may have to do this |
| 04:44:28 | CosmicPenguin | and molded.. the Z is more square |
| 04:45:01 | Fastolfe | CosmicPenguin: yeah, it's got that great seventies feel, with the square cheapo silver-painted plastic. Takes you right back to the wonder years |
| 04:45:33 | CosmicPenguin | "for everything, turn, turn, turn... there is a season..." |
| 04:45:41 | Drago | hmm doesnt look like sharp is going to be at linuxexpo |
| 04:47:02 | CosmicPenguin | Drago: The linux expo isn't really a consumer electronics sort of thing |
| 04:47:43 | Drago | id really like to see it before i commit :( |
| 04:48:21 | Fastolfe | what about some risk-taking here, eh :) |
| 04:48:27 | Drago | i guess i can always try to utilize their return policy if im unhappy with it |
| 04:51:01 | JasonNJ | fastolfe: you think the ipaq has a better construction than the Z? |
| 04:51:44 | Drago | SharpPlace.com is happy to accept returns of all items within 30 days of the invoice date with the exception of opened software products. |
| 04:51:50 | Drago | i guess i have nothing to lose |
| 04:52:16 | Fastolfe | JasonNJ: I think the great thing with the iPAQ is the back sleeve that accepts PCMCIA cards. Makes it easier to buy equipment for it. But the Z's keyboard is the killer feature here. And the iPAQ is a bitch to get Linux running on. So I say die die die iPAQ :)) |
| 04:52:17 | JasonNJ | drago are you going to LinuxWorld? |
| 04:52:44 | Drago | JasonNJ, planning on it. probably thursday. |
| 04:52:52 | JasonNJ | drago: dont buy a Z then. |
| 04:53:01 | JasonNJ | not from sharpplace. |
| 04:53:05 | JasonNJ | we are selling Z's at the show. |
| 04:53:09 | Drago | oh |
| 04:53:13 | Fastolfe | which ? 5500 or 5000 |
| 04:53:15 | JasonNJ | 399 with a 64 meg CF card |
| 04:53:18 | JasonNJ | 5000 series |
| 04:53:20 | Fastolfe | k |
| 04:53:28 | Fastolfe | you going ? |
| 04:53:30 | JasonNJ | yes |
| 04:53:36 | Fastolfe | maybe I'll see you there |
| 04:53:36 | JasonNJ | I have to be at the booth |
| 04:53:39 | Drago | JasonNJ, what company should i be looking for? |
| 04:53:44 | JasonNJ | SHARP |
| 04:53:46 | Drago | oh |
| 04:53:47 | Drago | hehe |
| 04:53:48 | Fastolfe | LOLO |
| 04:53:50 | Fastolfe | L |
| 04:53:50 | Drago | duh :) |
| 04:54:02 | Fastolfe | RadioShack |
| 04:54:03 | Fastolfe | :) |
| 04:54:06 | Drago | JasonNJ, i checked the vendor listing on linuxexpo and didnt see sharp, i assumed they werent going to be there. |
| 04:54:10 | JasonNJ | fastolfe you are going to the line booth? |
| 04:54:17 | JasonNJ | Drago we were a late addition? |
| 04:54:25 | Drago | JasonNJ, gotcha |
| 04:54:26 | Fastolfe | I'm trying to con the marketing dept into sending me |
| 04:54:43 | Fastolfe | I'm a great booth babe |
| 04:54:47 | Drago | awesome, now i dont have to pay for shipping |
| 04:54:49 | roge99 | Drago: their on the list .... booth 520 |
| 04:54:59 | JasonNJ | right next to HP |
| 04:55:05 | Drago | roge99, hmm i checked earlier this morning, im just clueless i guess. |
| 04:55:09 | roge99 | http://vbooth.tscentral.com/html/IDG_LINUXWORLD_NYC_02/userHTML/SPFrmSet.html |
| 04:55:46 | roge99 | who else here is giong ? |
| 05:04:44 | ljp | I'll be there in my mind :D |
| 05:05:18 | roge99 | ill be there outa my mind :) |
| 05:05:36 | Drago | ill be playing with my new zaurus |
| 05:06:08 | JasonNJ | we're hoping to sell 500 at the show |
| 05:06:35 | roge99 | JasonNJ: looks from the flloor plan like you got a good size booth |
| 05:06:44 | JasonNJ | yep |
| 05:06:49 | Drago | unless i find it to be too bulky, you have one sale right here. |
| 05:07:11 | Drago | i just hope they dont sell out before i get there |
| 05:07:35 | JasonNJ | drago: if we do, we can sell you one from the warehouse with the 64mb card |
| 05:08:21 | JasonNJ | if we sell more than 500 we will bring more in |
| 05:08:36 | JasonNJ | ingram, our destributor has been put on alert |
| 05:08:59 | Drago | ill just play with the demos all day if i cant get my own that day :) |
| 05:10:09 | ljp | hey JasonNJ: any word on any of the cool stuff seen at internet wireless world like cf video I/O or the cf camera? |
| 05:11:08 | JasonNJ | yep. will be selling those on the acessory portal |
| 05:12:15 | tux_mike | just got the crazest idea for when he goes to cons :) |
| 05:17:30 | ljp | so, they are going to be ready when the 5500 is released? |
| 05:18:08 | JasonNJ | yes |
| 05:18:12 | JasonNJ | most of them will |
| 05:18:33 | JasonNJ | the 550 ships with the camera applet |
| 05:18:36 | JasonNJ | er 5500 |
| 05:20:29 | tux_mike | wooooooooooooot! XD it works!!!! |
| 05:28:18 | v23 | Fastolfe (this is the mailproblemguy): It says: MAIL FROM: <realname<name@servername.com>> |
| 05:28:45 | v23 | and the server replies with "unacceptable mail address", oviously... |
| 05:29:36 | v23 | btw I can send email with telnet w/o problems. |
| 05:29:48 | kergoth | v23: i saw that on one of the mailing lists. |
| 05:30:03 | kergoth | v23: dotn remember which one though. |
| 05:30:11 | kergoth | v23: search qpe-devel & zaurus-general |
| 05:30:24 | v23 | :-) thanks. I'll try. |
| 05:41:52 | tux_mike | mmmm... now this is good. a "rootbeer float" :) |
| 05:44:24 | Fastolfe | does anybody know if /proc/<pid>/statm shows you the mem pages really allocated to a process or the sum of the pages used and the pages cached by the kernel ? |
| 05:45:42 | Fastolfe | vncviewer localhost -encodings tight |
| 05:45:46 | Fastolfe | oops sorry |
| 05:45:48 | Fastolfe | :( |
| 05:46:11 | tux_mike | Fastolfe: do you use hover focus? |
| 05:47:01 | Fastolfe | no, I have elvis opened, put xchat in focus, type something, go back to elvis, close elvis, and the focus comes back to xchat instead of my xterm |
| 05:47:05 | Fastolfe | duh me |
| 05:47:11 | Fastolfe | I type too fast, I'm not looking |
| 05:48:04 | tux_mike | i too often forget to click to change windows. that's why i put mouse focus on. i really wish i could focus on what i look at (like my camera :) |
| 05:48:41 | Fastolfe | well, I'm not so good with GUIs |
| 05:48:46 | Fastolfe | screen is my friend |
| 05:48:51 | Fastolfe | so I forget to click |
| 05:48:56 | Fastolfe | click click click |
| 05:49:05 | Fastolfe | slaps himself behind the head |
| 05:49:13 | tux_mike | i use screen, just to stay connected to IRC all the time and never loose my nicks :) |
| 05:49:22 | Fastolfe | lol |
| 05:49:43 | Fastolfe | that's what eggdrops are for |
| 05:49:45 | tux_mike | mmm... now that was a good drink |
| 05:50:04 | tux_mike | Fastolfe: meh, i just want to pop in and out. for that screen works great |
| 05:50:57 | tux_mike | i just had some ice cream topped with root beer schnaps... root beer float with a kick :) |
| 06:06:03 | Shunt | Hey... |
| 06:06:23 | roge99 | hello |
| 06:06:43 | Shunt | roge99: You the perl sync guy? |
| 06:06:47 | roge99 | yep |
| 06:07:00 | Shunt | Kinda figured :0 |
| 06:07:03 | v23 | kergoth: I reflashed with the 1.2 rom and it works now... Apparently the bug is in the beta2. Is there any info when a new beta or 13 rom will come out? |
| 06:07:13 | tux_mike | oh, god damnit! i can't belive i did that. |
| 06:07:29 | tux_mike | slaps his head |
| 06:07:46 | Shunt | v23: Do you mean 1.2 or 1.02? |
| 06:08:06 | v23 | the latest from sharp. |
| 06:08:55 | v23 | I checked: 1.02 |
| 06:10:14 | Shunt | v23: I was going to say... :) |
| 06:11:24 | kergoth | v23: the bug is with qtmail in qtopia cvs then. the qmail in the sharp roms was licensed by sharp, and I dont have it to include in the OZ roms. we'll have to pursue development of qmail in Opie to improve it and fix that bug. |
| 06:11:42 | kergoth | s/qtmail/qmail/ |
| 06:12:13 | v23 | you mean should I...? :-) Ok. |
| 06:50:46 | roge99 | is away: sleep |
| 06:59:48 | kendrick2 | re bz |
| 07:00:00 | kendrick2 | see john hall's mesg? |
| 07:03:01 | BZFlag | list? nope. checking... |
| 07:03:18 | kendrick2 | sdl and i fwd'd it to zaurus |
| 07:10:55 | Fastolfe | damn, zlib leaks memory all over the place too :((( |
| 07:11:05 | Fastolfe | wants his mommy |
| 07:11:16 | NeoTron | zlib? I doubt it leaks memory...? |
| 07:11:22 | Fastolfe | I don't :)) |
| 07:11:25 | Fastolfe | in the inflate code |
| 07:12:06 | Fastolfe | at least I fixed the mem leaks in the main vnc server lib |
| 07:12:14 | NeoTron | sure you simply don't forget to free something? I mean, it's so widespread you'd think someone would have noticed |
| 07:12:15 | Fastolfe | it's a start |
| 07:12:28 | Fastolfe | NeoTron: no, I just spend 3 hours checking it all out |
| 07:41:32 | whardier | somebody is stealing our traffic |
| 07:41:42 | Fastolfe | uh ? |
| 07:42:34 | Fastolfe | whatsdatmean ? |
| 08:05:55 | NeoTron | whee |
| 08:41:42 | kendrick2 | re |
| 08:48:52 | Fastolfe | SF is dead |
| 08:48:56 | Fastolfe | that's a doozy |
| 08:52:03 | kendrick2 | ? |
| 08:52:22 | kendrick2 | ah |
| 08:52:28 | Fastolfe | ah? |
| 08:52:33 | Fastolfe | :)) |
| 08:52:36 | kendrick2 | see what you mean |
| 08:52:41 | Fastolfe | oh ok |
| 08:52:46 | Fastolfe | sorry I'm cryptic |
| 08:52:48 | kendrick2 | so i took two little demo apps my friend wrote and stuck them together |
| 08:52:54 | kendrick2 | now i have a little bmp i can move around with the cursor :) |
| 08:53:01 | Fastolfe | that makes a big demo, right ? :) |
| 08:53:02 | kendrick2 | not cryptic, just ambiguous :) |
| 08:53:13 | Fastolfe | cool |
| 08:53:19 | Fastolfe | you can move it around where ? |
| 08:53:23 | Fastolfe | on the desktop |
| 08:53:24 | Fastolfe | ? |
| 08:53:24 | kendrick2 | the screen :) |
| 08:53:32 | kendrick2 | it opens a 240x320 window |
| 08:53:37 | Fastolfe | oic |
| 08:53:38 | kendrick2 | it's a crappy little stick figure he drew :) |
| 08:53:56 | Fastolfe | so you move the bump image inside the window then ? |
| 08:53:56 | kendrick2 | i really prefer event-driven coding over this callback shit, tho :( |
| 08:54:04 | kendrick2 | yeh |
| 08:54:12 | Fastolfe | kend, X is your friend then :)) |
| 08:54:19 | kendrick2 | knows <:^( |
| 08:54:19 | kendrick2 | hehehe |
| 08:54:21 | Fastolfe | lol |
| 08:54:22 | kendrick2 | as is SDL :) |
| 08:54:27 | Fastolfe | yeah I spose |
| 08:54:28 | kendrick2 | see my sshot of mad bomber? ;) |
| 08:54:33 | Fastolfe | nope |
| 08:54:34 | Fastolfe | where ? |
| 08:54:47 | kendrick2 | http://www.sonic.net/~nbs/madbomber-sideways.gif |
| 08:54:53 | Fastolfe | checks it out |
| 08:54:53 | kendrick2 | now all we needs is for SDL to actually work on zauruses :) |
| 08:55:22 | Fastolfe | heh |
| 08:55:30 | Fastolfe | is that a desktop thing then ? |
| 08:55:36 | kendrick2 | sdl |
| 08:55:39 | Fastolfe | ic |
| 08:55:40 | kendrick2 | so, wherever sdl runs :) |
| 08:55:50 | kendrick2 | which, hopefully, will soon include ipaq and zaur |
| 08:56:00 | Fastolfe | I'm porting it to X (kind of) |
| 08:56:07 | kendrick2 | sdl? |
| 08:56:10 | kendrick2 | or? |
| 08:56:46 | Fastolfe | I've got this entire bunch of libs that I've identified that I want to port to X, and they're sitting there in the src directory waiting for me to port them. SDL is one of them, yes |
| 08:57:18 | kendrick2 | well, sdl works for x :) |
| 08:57:23 | kendrick2 | but i guess you mean x-on-z ;) |
| 08:57:25 | Fastolfe | I know :) |
| 08:57:30 | Fastolfe | oh yes |
| 08:57:35 | Fastolfe | it should be a no brainer |
| 08:58:19 | Fastolfe | damn, my memory leak patch for the vnc server lib is over 30K ! |
| 08:58:21 | Fastolfe | eek |
| 09:14:07 | Fastolfe | AH! I finally seem to have that goddamn memory leak under control now. |
| 09:14:14 | kendrick2 | :) |
| 09:14:17 | kendrick2 | good job! |
| 09:14:33 | Fastolfe | That library is a turd man, I kid you not ... |
| 09:14:36 | Fastolfe | oh well |
| 09:16:26 | Mallory | Is this the library originally developed at AT&T? |
| 09:16:31 | Mallory | (the VNC lib) |
| 09:16:55 | Fastolfe | VNC was originally developed at ORL, ATT bought them. |
| 09:16:57 | Fastolfe | But no |
| 09:17:25 | Mallory | Oh, my bad. I've always known VNC as an AT&T thing :) |
| 09:17:31 | Fastolfe | since ATT never separated the VNC code from the X server, someone did it from the Mac server |
| 09:17:48 | Fastolfe | That's okay :)) |
| 09:18:43 | Fastolfe | The puzzling thing is, that library is actually a good quality library, but for some reason, there are no free() and over 150 malloc() in there, which is something a 1st year CS student would do |
| 09:18:45 | Fastolfe | very strange |
| 09:19:11 | Fastolfe | oh well, it looks fixed now |
| 09:19:15 | kendrick2 | goes to bed |
| 09:19:16 | kendrick2 | nite nite! |
| 09:19:18 | Fastolfe | ok |
| 09:19:20 | Fastolfe | seeya :) |
| 09:57:47 | Fastolfe | oh wow, my Zaurus is running super-hot with the vnc server using all the CPU ! |
| 09:58:03 | Mallory | Fry and egg. |
| 09:58:11 | Mallory | Zaurus_egg.jpg |
| 09:58:13 | Fastolfe | hey hi mallory |
| 09:58:19 | Mallory | sup |
| 09:58:34 | Mallory | I take it you're still on French time being up this late? :) |
| 09:58:37 | Mallory | s/late/early/ |
| 09:58:38 | Fastolfe | I finally got that leak under control |
| 09:58:43 | Fastolfe | heh |
| 09:58:49 | Fastolfe | I usually work at nite |
| 09:58:53 | Mallory | Yeah I saw, I was reading a little bit of my scrollback. |
| 09:58:57 | Mallory | Me too. It's 5:00am here. |
| 09:59:03 | Fastolfe | uuh |
| 09:59:04 | Mallory | Gotta get some stuff together for a client meeting at 10 |
| 09:59:22 | Fastolfe | holy crap, you ain't gonna be so fresh at your meeting :) |
| 09:59:44 | Mallory | na, I'm used to wierd hours |
| 09:59:58 | Mallory | I get more done when I don't have co-workers/telephones bothering me |
| 09:59:59 | Fastolfe | okay :) |
| 10:00:04 | Fastolfe | same here |
| 10:00:22 | Fastolfe | plus I can put the music on full blast |
| 10:00:29 | Mallory | That too :) |
| 10:00:46 | Fastolfe | ah! SF is back up |
| 10:00:47 | Mallory | I'm trying to decide between Pure Disco Vol II and the Phish. |
| 10:01:20 | Fastolfe | heh |
| 10:01:22 | Fastolfe | classical for me |
| 10:01:46 | Fastolfe | oh and SF is a mess |
| 10:01:51 | Fastolfe | that's just great |
| 10:02:37 | Fastolfe | I wonder why anybody pays them the tons of $$$ they ask for if it's to go down so often |
| 10:03:06 | Mallory | SF is a great idea but I don't think I'd ever pay for it. |
| 10:03:28 | Fastolfe | yeah, kind of like developonline : great idea, but I'd rather have the hardware on my desk |
| 10:03:35 | Mallory | You can build your own system with all those features by just collecting the best release management package, bug tracking package, etc. |
| 10:04:03 | Fastolfe | matter of fact, that's exactly the proposal I'm putting together for our openpda.net site |
| 10:04:16 | Fastolfe | all free software and some python cgis around them |
| 10:04:44 | Fastolfe | damn pos SF |
| 10:05:11 | Mallory | That's cool, if it were perl I'd offer to help. :) |
| 10:05:35 | Fastolfe | heh, I might just take you up on the offer, be careful :) |
| 10:06:12 | Fastolfe | jeezus my Z is really *REALLY* hot :( |
| 10:06:23 | Mallory | Feel free to, as long as it's perl :) |
| 10:06:36 | Mallory | I only use Python if I'm being paid I dislike it that much. |
| 10:06:43 | Fastolfe | yeah, I don't do perl myself by I'm not a bigot about it |
| 10:07:10 | Mallory | heh, I'm religious about perl. I want to name a daughter perl some day and I smoke Camels :) |
| 10:07:13 | Mallory | speaking of which, brb |
| 10:07:26 | Fastolfe | I need to find an unobstructive and elegant way to hijack the kernel :) |
| 10:07:51 | Fastolfe | my my mallory, you're quite in it aren't you ? :) |
| 10:08:17 | Fastolfe | I think Perl is a very large mess myself, but that's just my opinion |
| 10:09:58 | Fastolfe | yikes! kernel panic |
| 10:11:49 | Mallory | Yes, but I like that mess. :) |
| 10:12:12 | Fastolfe | well, everybody has a right to his/her taste :) |
| 10:12:20 | Mallory | To be honest I haven't really done that much Python which is why I don't like it very much. When you use something all the time (I get paid to write perl all day) you kinda fall in love with it I guess. I loved perl before that, though. |
| 10:13:25 | Fastolfe | I've done enough perl to know that I can't read my code after 2 months, no matter how well I comment it |
| 10:13:39 | Fastolfe | that's my biggest gripe about it |
| 10:14:01 | Mallory | See, I'm that way with just about every other language. |
| 10:14:10 | Mallory | To each his own. :) |
| 10:14:27 | Fastolfe | yup |
| 10:14:54 | Fastolfe | touches his Z and reckons this isn't right at all :( |
| 10:15:00 | Fastolfe | it smells hot too |
| 10:15:14 | Fastolfe | time to stop the server and suspend the thing |
| 10:16:44 | Mallory | I REALLY hate that SF pops up a new window whenever you search. |
| 10:17:23 | whardier | something is kiling my network here |
| 10:17:51 | whardier | it keeps making things spoof the gateways mac address |
| 10:18:05 | whardier | which kinda fucks me ver |
| 10:18:11 | whardier | over |
| 10:30:24 | Fastolfe | hmm |
| 10:30:39 | Fastolfe | it's the penguins stepping on the network cable man |
| 10:31:03 | Fastolfe | damn, nicotine call again |
| 10:31:04 | Fastolfe | brb |
| 10:36:05 | whardier | heh |
| 10:48:53 | Fastolfe | I'm BACK, kicking bottom or WHAT ! |
| 10:58:53 | Mallory | [root@newtoy root]# ipkg install fbvncserver_0.0.1-2_arm.ipk |
| 10:58:53 | Mallory | Unpacking fbvncserver...Done. |
| 10:59:28 | Mallory | It still dies being nampped :) |
| 11:00:10 | Mallory | Hmm, it's using more RAM now |
| 11:00:30 | Mallory | (percentage wise) |
| 11:09:42 | Fastolfe | Hey BZF |
| 11:09:54 | Fastolfe | oh he left |
| 11:09:55 | Fastolfe | doh me |
| 11:10:14 | Fastolfe | Mallory: one thing at a time, eh :) |
| 11:11:53 | Fastolfe | Ah! I think I know how I'm going to simulate keystrokes and touchscreen events |
| 11:11:59 | Fastolfe | it's gonna be nasty :) |
| 11:16:00 | Fastolfe | Holy CRAP, qpe chews up 15 %$@$# megs of memory ! |
| 11:16:13 | Fastolfe | and I feel bad about malloc()ing 300K ? |
| 11:49:00 | Fastolfe | bzf you here ? |
| 12:03:03 | BZFlag | I should not be, but I am. |
| 12:03:07 | BZFlag | headed to bed. |
| 12:03:41 | Fastolfe | heh |
| 12:03:44 | Fastolfe | k |
| 12:36:41 | msmax | k |
| 14:28:38 | Kand-ALF | http://www.bundestux.de |
| 14:47:08 | brett | bleh, the latest version of wlanctl-ng is bus-erroring on the Z. |
| 14:48:52 | ljp | Kand-ALF: damn, I wish that would happen here! |
| 14:59:10 | bipolar | is back (gone 16:34:28) |
| 15:07:06 | kergoth | mornin |
| 15:09:09 | brett | yo kergoth |
| 15:12:50 | kergoth | hey brett. I think I'm going to do a release of OZ prior to gaining jffs2 functionality.. so people have something a bit less buggy.. want to send me the ipks or a tarball of the files from your wlan-ng & pcmcia-ng stuff for inclusion? |
| 15:13:54 | brett | I would... One problem though. |
| 15:14:12 | kergoth | whats that? |
| 15:14:21 | brett | The default config scripts cause a bus error. It's possible to bring up card manually, but I'm trying to figure out what the problem is. |
| 15:15:27 | brett | When you try to set the auth-type it craps. |
| 15:15:35 | kergoth | ah dont ya just love alignment issues ;-) |
| 15:15:40 | kergoth | heh |
| 15:15:44 | brett | Yeah. I'm looking for patches now. |
| 15:16:30 | brett | Funny thing is, yesterday I just didn't set the auth-type and was still able to get the card working. |
| 15:16:36 | brett | Although it should be required. |
| 15:17:05 | kergoth | heh. weird. |
| 15:19:23 | brett | kergoth: I gave the build system a go last night, it errored out looking for headers. |
| 15:20:59 | kergoth | brett: hmm what were you trying to build? |
| 15:21:06 | brett | all |
| 15:21:17 | brett | let me run it again real quick |
| 15:21:50 | bipolar | wonders if ipaqalarm will work on the zaurus. |
| 15:22:26 | kergoth | k |
| 15:22:28 | brett | kergoth: It craps while building ncurses. |
| 15:22:34 | kergoth | brett: k |
| 15:22:39 | brett | wait, hang on |
| 15:22:51 | kergoth | brett: ncurses & nano were done prior to us getting hte glibc & kernel stuff worked out, havent looked at them in a while |
| 15:23:11 | brett | I'm sorry it wasn't a header problem, it's just not finding my arm-gcc. Easy enough |
| 15:23:22 | bipolar | Can someone with a zaurus see if /proc/driver/rtc exists? |
| 15:23:45 | kergoth | brett: ah cool :-) |
| 15:27:30 | brett | Aha, there's the include problem again. I knew I wasn't crazy. :) It looks like it's trying to build ncurses before it builds the kernel. SHouldn't the kernel be first? |
| 15:29:30 | kergoth | hmm edit ncurses.. on the Depends: line, add 'linux' |
| 15:29:31 | kergoth | :-) |
| 15:31:58 | brett | /opt/Embedix/tools/lib/gcc-lib/arm-linux/2.95.2/../../../../arm-linux/include/bits/local_lim.h:36: linux/limits.h: No such file or directory |
| 15:32:07 | cpenguin_work | is away: Whew, I caught that weasel just in time |
| 15:32:15 | cpenguin_work | is back (gone 00:00:08) |
| 15:33:15 | kergoth | hm. build/linux/include exists right? ;-) |
| 15:33:48 | brett | build is empty. Is make clean really making clean? |
| 15:34:19 | kergoth | build is empty? |
| 15:34:26 | kergoth | is 'linux' on the Depends line in configs/ncurses.mk? |
| 15:34:46 | kergoth | make clean will run a make clean in every build dir (build/linux, build/nano, etc) |
| 15:34:54 | brett | Yes, it's looking like ncurses is the first thing it's trying to compile. I added 'linux' to the depends line and then did a make clean. |
| 15:34:56 | kergoth | make distclean will wipe sources/dl/* and build/*, iirc |
| 15:35:07 | brett | Now I just wiped the dir, re-grabbed it and am trying again |
| 15:35:16 | kergoth | what version of the buildsystem are you using? |
| 15:35:23 | kergoth | the newest doesnt have a default make target |
| 15:35:25 | brett | regrabbed it from cvs I should say. I'll use distclean next time. |
| 15:35:32 | brett | kergoth: I just checked it out |
| 15:35:33 | kergoth | if you run 'make' it'll just dump a list of targets |
| 15:35:35 | kergoth | hmm |
| 15:35:43 | brett | I ran a make all |
| 15:35:45 | kergoth | ah |
| 15:35:49 | kergoth | thats broken right nwo |
| 15:35:54 | brett | oh |
| 15:35:56 | kergoth | because half the .mk's in configs/ dont work right |
| 15:36:01 | brett | aha. |
| 15:36:11 | kergoth | tim moved them out of configs/disabled for some reason.. hence the confusion |
| 15:36:12 | kergoth | :-) |
| 15:36:31 | brett | Yeah, didn't he mention something about changing one of the directory names? |
| 15:36:46 | roge99 | is back (gone 08:46:00) |
| 15:36:49 | kergoth | brett: ex. 'make openzaurus' will build glibc, linux, mtd, busybox, and creates a jffs2 rootfs |
| 15:36:59 | brett | ok, running that now |
| 15:37:44 | brett | That craps out with an error about how it can't find mkfs.jffs2 |
| 15:37:56 | kergoth | errr |
| 15:38:04 | kergoth | oh yeah |
| 15:38:09 | kergoth | tim broke openzaurus.mk |
| 15:38:14 | kergoth | edit it, and uncomment the Depends line |
| 15:38:17 | brett | Boy this sure is a sweet build system you have here kergoth. :) |
| 15:38:20 | kergoth | and add 'mtd' to the Depends line |
| 15:38:21 | brett | runs away. |
| 15:38:36 | kergoth | hey dont look at me, the one on my box works.. lets just say our coordinated efforts arent very coordinated ;-) |
| 15:38:47 | brett | I'm just kidding. :) |
| 15:38:51 | kergoth | i'll fix openzaurus.mk and recommit |
| 15:39:13 | brett | Ok, it's going now. |
| 15:39:22 | kergoth | k |
| 15:39:42 | brett | So for installation of the wlan stuff, the 'root' dir is the top level Z dir correct? |
| 15:40:09 | kergoth | yes |
| 15:40:36 | brett | ok. As soon as I figure out the bus error I'll put the wlan stuff in and see how it jives with the build. |
| 15:41:03 | kergoth | k, but the initrd.bin generated by a openzaurus build wont work for now, as jffs2 is broken right nwo, iirc |
| 15:41:09 | kergoth | brb, need caffeine |
| 15:41:10 | brett | ok |
| 15:41:20 | brett | good idea |
| 16:01:01 | kergoth | k, better now. |
| 16:01:02 | kergoth | heh |
| 16:01:56 | brett | Yeah, same here. :) |
| 16:02:39 | brett | I hate running out of cone filters though. I had to construct an elaborate duplicate using the flat bottomed ones. |
| 16:02:47 | brett | An engineering feat if you will. |
| 16:04:31 | | jasonnj was last seen on #zaurus 10 hours, 45 minutes and 55 seconds ago, saying: er 5500 [Tue Jan 29 05:18:36 2002] |
| 16:04:31 | bipolar | ibot: seen jasonnj? |
| 16:05:08 | brett | I'm going to have to remember to always say something profound before I log off... |
| 16:05:29 | bipolar | hehehe |
| 16:06:26 | msmax | k |
| 16:07:23 | kergoth | brett: btw the openzaurus.mk in cvs works now. |
| 16:07:25 | kergoth | heh |
| 16:08:07 | kergoth | oh good work tim riker.. he added a .mk to download the 1.02 romimage and rip it apart |
| 16:08:20 | kergoth | now i'll add what I need to convert it to ipks and install them into the rootfs. |
| 16:09:49 | kergoth | brett: I just realized that we should have ncurses depending on glibc, not linux, since glibc depends on linux. heh. |
| 16:14:37 | kergoth | adds configs/sharpipks.mk and configs/sharprootfs.mk to buildsystem |
| 16:18:46 | mandrake | sad |
| 16:18:52 | mandrake | I was hoping warwick would reply to my list post. |
| 16:19:06 | mandrake | why is it whenever I ask questions they tend to be the kind nobody can answer :) |
| 16:19:17 | kergoth | mandrake: just lucky, i guess :-) |
| 16:19:22 | kergoth | mandrake: what was your post regarding? |
| 16:20:18 | mandrake | 1) having Applications / Settings / etc menus be modifyable by data on compact flash card |
| 16:20:30 | mandrake | (at the same time it loads up stuff into the documents browser) |
| 16:20:45 | mandrake | 2) why does something that works on my ipaq under qpe not work on the zaurus. |
| 16:39:53 | kergoth | mandrake: count me among the many who dont know the answer on question one, though that would be very useful functionality indeed. Whats the behavior seen in two? |
| 16:41:03 | mandrake | kergoth: I can't seem to run an application that lives on the compact flash card on the zaurus, though it works fine on my ipaq. |
| 16:41:42 | mandrake | i.e. if I make a symlink in bin to the app on the compact flash card (.desktop files don't like hardpaths for reasons I cannot fathom), it gives me a goofy QFile::Open error |
| 16:42:01 | mandrake | if you're on the zaurus-qtopia mailing list I sent the exact error there |
| 16:43:05 | kergoth | k |
| 16:56:51 | brett | Oh wow my mom can talk.. Thank god I only have to call her about once per month. |
| 16:58:29 | brett | I should really look into an automated solution for that... |
| 16:58:32 | kergoth | brett: who |
| 16:58:33 | kergoth | ? |
| 16:58:44 | brett | My mom. |
| 17:00:51 | kergoth | ah |
| 17:01:50 | brett | I'm thinking I could write a vml script to say 'Ahh. Great' and 'That's nice' after she says something. |
| 17:01:56 | kergoth | lol |
| 17:01:59 | brett | Would be an incredible time saver. :) |
| 17:12:42 | peanut | waves |
| 17:15:35 | kergoth | sup peanut |
| 17:15:46 | peanut | not much.. |
| 17:15:54 | peanut | has been answering syncing questions on the sharp forum.. |
| 17:17:55 | peanut | lag.. |
| 17:18:31 | kergoth | heh |
| 17:19:24 | peanut | damn @home cable.. |
| 17:19:28 | peanut | i can't wait until i switch to comcast. |
| 17:19:36 | peanut | perhaps they'll maintain their dns better |
| 17:22:39 | CosmicPenguin | peanut: As long as you don't try to do anything smart like NAT... :) |
| 17:22:55 | brett | How do they go about detecting that anyway? |
| 17:23:10 | peanut | thats a bunch of bs |
| 17:23:25 | peanut | trying to scare everyone.. |
| 17:23:47 | peanut | comcast is saving money by capping downloads |
| 17:23:51 | peanut | 3000 to 1500 |
| 17:24:10 | peanut | only 2x as fast as dsl now.. |
| 17:24:34 | CosmicPenguin | I'm thinking that the only thing they can do is filter all known home based router MACs and hope for the best |
| 17:24:39 | peanut | has a sister in law who works in dispatch and a brother in law who works in their telecom |
| 17:25:03 | peanut | they are not planning on doing any nat checking |
| 17:25:11 | peanut | what they are doing is slowly dropping the bandwidth down |
| 17:25:23 | CosmicPenguin | Speaking of DSL, lets see how many different people I can yell at at the telecom today |
| 17:25:28 | peanut | with the goal to be to offer higher tiered service at a price |
| 17:25:43 | peanut | rumor has it that the drop to 1500 is not the last |
| 17:26:57 | brett | Man.. I need to find a really gay guy to cut my hair short... It's been long for so long, I have no idea what I want. |
| 17:27:54 | bipolar | hahaha |
| 17:28:29 | brett | I figure if he's gay, I can just say, "Make me look like someone you'd want to do." |
| 17:30:25 | kergoth | whardier: ping |
| 17:42:30 | brett | Anyone here have a yahoo mail account? Can you get to your mailbox right now? |
| 17:45:57 | peanut | is trying.. |
| 17:46:11 | peanut | yes i am in |
| 17:51:28 | brett | It's working for me now too. Thanks peanut, you fixed it. :) |
| 17:52:22 | brett | Hey, a question for you guys. If you haven't spoken to someone in a very very long time, but are on good terms with him.. And would like to get a job at his new company, would it be prudent to ask about the job in the first correspondence with him? |
| 17:52:42 | brett | Or should I get a dialog going then slide it in? |
| 17:53:08 | kergoth | brett: personally, I'd delay it a bit, so as not to seem to only be talking to him for that reason |
| 17:53:13 | Shunt | brett: Only if you want to seem like a job seeking whore. |
| 17:53:17 | kergoth | hah |
| 17:53:28 | brett | hehe point taken. |
| 17:53:37 | brett | I kind of am a job seeking whore right now though... |
| 17:53:46 | Shunt | Isn't everyone? |
| 17:53:51 | brett | True that. |
| 17:54:42 | brett | 2 years ago, really nice offers were landing on my lap. It would be nice to have a time machine, I could see what companies are still around, go back and then accept one of those offers. :) |
| 17:55:04 | brett | I'm not happy about this whole 'looking' thing. |
| 17:55:30 | brett | Oh it's a hard life. :) |
| 17:55:42 | scanline | is away: I'm busy |
| 17:55:43 | scanline | is back (gone 00:00:02) |
| 17:56:21 | Shunt | Exactly... I've done time with a dotcom, and now slave away writing palm apps and doing DB integration work. I feel so wasted. |
| 17:56:56 | brett | I'm just peeved that the salaries I'm looking at aren't as good as they used to be. |
| 17:57:07 | peanut | depends where you are brett |
| 17:57:14 | brett | Something about wanting to move up the ladder, not down. :) |
| 17:57:19 | peanut | and what you consider a good salary |
| 17:57:48 | Shunt | I'd move down the ladder for the right job... |
| 17:57:57 | peanut | agreed |
| 17:58:01 | peanut | works at a university.. |
| 17:58:05 | brett | peanut: Of course, I'm just saying I'm not getting offers on par with what I was getting before. Which is probably more on par with reality, it's just nicer to make more though. |
| 17:58:11 | MSpin | I've seen that the college grad market is getting fewer offers, but the dollar ammounts haven't realyl changed |
| 17:58:38 | MSpin | peanut: which one? |
| 17:59:10 | brett | I mean the last place was only willing to do 200k. I mean come on, that's an insult. |
| 17:59:24 | peanut | brett: 200k |
| 17:59:29 | brett | hehe, I'm joking. |
| 18:00:19 | brett | Tough crowd, tough crowd. |
| 18:00:23 | peanut | at my U, we get 20 days vacation, 5 days of adm leave and ph |
| 18:00:26 | peanut | 15 days of sick |
| 18:00:34 | peanut | all regular holidays |
| 18:00:42 | peanut | and the week between xmas and new years |
| 18:00:43 | brett | Not too shabby. |
| 18:00:53 | peanut | no.. not at all.. |
| 18:01:01 | kergoth | peanut: what do you do there? |
| 18:01:06 | peanut | if youd rather have vacation then pay.. |
| 18:01:08 | Shunt | peanut: they hiring? :P |
| 18:01:17 | peanut | it easily adds several $$$$ to the academic salary |
| 18:01:22 | peanut | we are always hiring.. |
| 18:01:25 | peanut | always |
| 18:01:48 | Shunt | peanut: I'd doubt you need people like me.. I may be a bit of overkill |
| 18:01:58 | brett | I'm trying to find a low-key sysadmin job. Something where there's a lot of down time for me to work on other things. |
| 18:02:07 | peanut | then a u would be for you! |
| 18:02:23 | peanut | we have a systems programmer/administrator job open right now.. |
| 18:02:25 | MSpin | peanut: that really depends on the U |
| 18:02:25 | peanut | its a low grade |
| 18:02:33 | peanut | 38k -> 58k |
| 18:02:42 | peanut | but if you're qualified they might hire at 48k to start |
| 18:02:44 | brett | peanut: What U? |
| 18:02:53 | peanut | however, we are in sort of a freeze because of budget concerns.. |
| 18:02:58 | peanut | we're a state u.. |
| 18:03:04 | brett | ok, what state? |
| 18:03:09 | peanut | what state has massive budget problems right now? |
| 18:03:14 | Shunt | NJ! |
| 18:03:15 | peanut | think 2.8 billion problems |
| 18:03:19 | peanut | absolutely! |
| 18:03:25 | brett | Delaware! |
| 18:03:25 | Shunt | You gotta be Rutgers then |
| 18:03:30 | brett | oh |
| 18:03:35 | peanut | is rutgers |
| 18:03:40 | peanut | well not exactly.. |
| 18:03:46 | Shunt | I live about 10 mins away from rutgers... well... maybe 20 |
| 18:03:50 | peanut | which campus |
| 18:03:55 | brett | WA isn't doing so hot right now either. I think our unemployment rate is 1st or 2nd in the nation. |
| 18:03:55 | Shunt | New Brunswick |
| 18:04:14 | brett | Or was at least. |
| 18:04:15 | peanut | thats where that systems programmer job i posted is.. |
| 18:04:43 | Shunt | reallY? Think they could go maybe a tad higher? :P |
| 18:04:55 | peanut | theres a job in newark for the same pay |
| 18:05:04 | peanut | Shunt: no.. not a chance.. |
| 18:05:07 | peanut | but once you get your foot in.. |
| 18:07:51 | Shunt | peanut: What's the job? *nix admin? |
| 18:09:04 | peanut | depends |
| 18:09:15 | Shunt | on? |
| 18:09:21 | peanut | which job.. |
| 18:09:42 | Shunt | this could go in circles |
| 18:09:51 | peanut | the one in newark is not systems admin (more like user support) |
| 18:10:09 | Shunt | I can't do user support... not trained for that |
| 18:10:15 | peanut | the one in nb is |
| 18:10:24 | peanut | see http://www.rucs.rutgers.edu/hr/ |
| 18:10:27 | peanut | for a slew of jobs.. |
| 18:10:44 | Shunt | anybody see my embryonic sync app that I put on the list yesterday? |
| 18:10:48 | brett | Shunt: That's a very good way of backing out from a crappy request. :) "Not trained for that" |
| 18:10:59 | brett | User support. *shudder* |
| 18:11:13 | peanut | does user support as well.. not much but some.. |
| 18:11:18 | peanut | everyone has to from time to time.. |
| 18:11:20 | peanut | its the way we work.. |
| 18:11:22 | Shunt | It's hard enough to deal with clients as it is..... |
| 18:11:35 | brett | peanut: Of course, but if that were you're only job. oh man |
| 18:11:43 | peanut | true.. |
| 18:11:45 | peanut | it would suck.. |
| 18:12:03 | peanut | the nice thing is rutgers recently did a market review of IT salaries. |
| 18:12:04 | Shunt | I found a job... in PA... 4 12 hour shifts a week doing 3rd shift system admin |
| 18:12:06 | brett | "HEY I CAN'T LOG IN! SOMETHINGS WRONG WITH THE COMPUTER" |
| 18:12:13 | brett | "Did you forget your password?" |
| 18:12:19 | brett | "OF COURSE NOT! YOU DUMBASS" |
| 18:12:30 | peanut | is thinking of doing consulting on the side.. |
| 18:12:42 | brett | "I reset your password, should be fine now" |
| 18:12:50 | peanut | not sure how this compares.. but here's ru's salary schedule for it |
| 18:12:55 | peanut | http://uhr.rutgers.edu/SalaryTables/table8.asp |
| 18:13:01 | Shunt | deals with people who give him project spefications such as "- create a wizard-like interface to upload and download files from the database" |
| 18:13:11 | peanut | last i heard, there was no 1s or 12s |
| 18:13:39 | brett | Shunt: I worked for a company called Epods where we were building a portal. The 'Web Experience' team who was supposed to spec everything out had no idea about the limitations of html. |
| 18:14:04 | Shunt | My fave... I had someone tell me to use rollovers on the palm project I'm coding now. Rollovers. On a palm. |
| 18:14:26 | brett | Shunt: Our site had to work fine for both normal browsers and the embedded version of ie. it was a constant struggle to get them to understand that we just couldn't do certain things. |
| 18:14:39 | brett | Shunt: I completly feel your pain. |
| 18:15:20 | peanut | yawns |
| 18:16:03 | Shunt | And the IS guys... give me crap all the time for not using exchange. I'd be happy to use it as soon as they give me the linux or solaris version. |
| 18:17:56 | brett | The last place I worked for standardized on MS Word for documentation. Even though we were a unix house. Every single person was pushing for latex... |
| 18:17:58 | brett | But NOOOO |
| 18:18:08 | brett | Only like 3 people there had a copy of Word. |
| 18:18:25 | brett | It was insane. |
| 18:18:38 | Shunt | How long ago was that? 'Cos staroffice does pretty well by me for word/excel type stuff |
| 18:19:39 | brett | Shunt: That's true, but it was our internal doc standard. We figured we shouldn't have to force everyone to use staroffice just for that reason. We could've exported word docs if we'd needed to. |
| 18:19:53 | charlus | help |
| 18:20:05 | brett | hehe ok |
| 18:20:51 | Shunt | brett: Most marketing types are pretty... unable to use anything but Word/Excel. |
| 18:21:20 | brett | Yeah, but they would have no use for tech docs unless they were sending them to someone else. And like I said, we could've created word docs for special cases. |
| 18:21:50 | brett | Oh well. They're bankrupt now so it's a moot point anyways. :) |
| 18:22:12 | Shunt | charlus: what do ya need help with? |
| 18:22:23 | brett | Hmm. Do you guys think I hould take out the 'Peace out, yo' at the end of my resume? |
| 18:22:35 | bipolar | brett: lol |
| 18:22:54 | bipolar | brett: not if you're applying at MTV... |
| 18:22:59 | brett | heh |
| 18:24:58 | charlus | sorry i wanted help on the commands and forgot the / .... i'm new to irc :-) |
| 18:25:28 | Shunt | remembers compiling irc on a vax. sigh |
| 18:25:29 | peanut | anyone here use 80211 |
| 18:25:37 | brett | yes peanut |
| 18:25:59 | peanut | do you have problems with the connection degrading periodically for apparently no reason? |
| 18:26:13 | peanut | i.e. i'll be in a fixed postion running at 11Mbs |
| 18:26:24 | peanut | with ok link quality (24/92) |
| 18:26:27 | brett | I haven't tested it out enough to notice yet. Are you talking about your Z card or 802.11 in general? |
| 18:26:39 | peanut | 80211 in general |
| 18:26:51 | brett | Can you monitor your signal/noise ratio |
| 18:26:51 | brett | ? |
| 18:26:58 | Shunt | Any word on a new rom coming out anytime soon? |
| 18:27:13 | brett | Shunt: I think sharp is overdue on their new rom. |
| 18:28:06 | Shunt | slightly... |
| 18:28:27 | MSpin | peanut: how much traffic are you trying to push? |
| 18:29:29 | charlus | Has anyone here recompiled qte 2.3.2 following the instructions posted on qpe.sourceforge.net ? |
| 18:30:59 | peanut | pwd |
| 18:31:08 | MSpin | peanut: you also might try changing the chan you're using. any 2.4ghz phones around? |
| 18:31:27 | brett | Or microwaves |
| 18:32:18 | peanut | has thought about that all |
| 18:32:21 | MSpin | I haven't have too many microwave problems because they blast RF over such a wide band |
| 18:32:32 | peanut | is thinking maybe a phone.. |
| 18:32:35 | brett | You've never seen my microwave array. |
| 18:32:44 | MSpin | brett: LOL, true |
| 18:32:56 | MSpin | peanut: which cards? |
| 18:34:18 | peanut | a dell tm1150 (rebadged orinico) and a dlink for the z |
| 18:34:39 | brett | peanut: Is it an intermittent problem? |
| 18:35:00 | peanut | yup.. |
| 18:35:39 | brett | Have you run any monitoring programs to see what your noise is looking like when it gets crappy? |
| 18:36:20 | MSpin | is the tm1150 the pcmcia card? |
| 18:36:28 | peanut | minipci form factor |
| 18:36:36 | MSpin | ok |
| 18:36:36 | peanut | it uses my laptops internal antenna |
| 18:36:46 | MSpin | cool, I likethat:) |
| 18:36:52 | peanut | is wondering if my access point is flaky.. |
| 18:37:01 | peanut | i think that might be the problem.. |
| 18:37:07 | MSpin | ahh, there's an AP |
| 18:37:14 | MSpin | yeah, all traffic must go through it |
| 18:37:25 | peanut | yup.. |
| 18:37:30 | peanut | sometimes the web server on it dies.. |
| 18:37:36 | peanut | and i need to reboot the thing to get back in.. |
| 18:37:40 | MSpin | is it only slow between the two clients? or betwneen the clients and AP? |
| 18:37:42 | MSpin | WAP11? |
| 18:38:08 | peanut | no.. |
| 18:38:27 | peanut | the linksys cable/dsl 4 port wap router |
| 18:38:34 | peanut | i think its befws411 or something.. |
| 18:38:35 | MSpin | ahh, I got one of those |
| 18:38:39 | MSpin | yup |
| 18:38:45 | MSpin | hrm, lates firmware? |
| 18:38:53 | peanut | the latest released firmware |
| 18:38:59 | peanut | doesn't use the test ones.. |
| 18:39:53 | peanut | can you not connect to the webserver on it sometimes? |
| 18:40:08 | MSpin | I haven't had any problems |
| 18:40:19 | peanut | yeah.. i get it all of the time.. |
| 18:40:22 | peanut | connection refused |
| 18:40:23 | MSpin | I'm using an rg1000 now |
| 18:40:44 | MSpin | on the linksys I had firmware something .g I think |
| 18:40:54 | MSpin | it was the most recent on their site |
| 18:41:27 | MSpin | I have heard of people having lockup problems on the WAP11. More people ar using it though.. |
| 18:41:42 | peanut | i'm running 1.39.2 release 10/15/01 |
| 18:44:05 | MSpin | hrm, I seem to recall a later one.... |
| 18:44:17 | MSpin | would it be possible to try a different location? |
| 18:45:12 | brett | Like somewhere out of the kitchen? |
| 18:46:31 | MSpin | hehe |
| 18:46:34 | brett | taps his mic. |
| 18:46:38 | scanline | is away: class |
| 18:46:42 | brett | Is this thing on? |
| 18:46:46 | brett | Tough crowd. |
| 18:47:10 | MSpin | I beefed up my RG1000 with a 6dbi omni antenna screwed on the back hehe |
| 18:49:33 | brett | MSpin: Hey, I'm not too familiar with antennas, can you answer something for me? |
| 18:50:16 | brett | You can increase the base-station antenna's output, but you're still limited by the range of the client antenna right? |
| 18:50:38 | brett | Or is it possible to make the base station 'pull' a signal from the client? |
| 18:52:17 | sjohnson | brett: Antenna are a bit more complicated than that. |
| 18:52:25 | brett | sjohnson: That's why I'm asking. :) |
| 18:52:53 | brett | I should probably read up a bit on them. I'd like to do some ptp link ups with 802.11 |
| 18:53:47 | sjohnson | The range between client and base station depends on the client xmit power and the sensitivity of the base station. |
| 18:54:41 | MSpin | you need to look at total system gain |
| 18:54:57 | MSpin | big antennas are the easiest way to go |
| 18:54:58 | brett | sjohnson: Is it possible to build something like a range 'booster' antenna without having a physical link to the antenna on the card? |
| 18:55:08 | brett | sjohnson: I've seen similar products for cars and cellphones. |
| 18:55:21 | MSpin | the longest p2p link I did was about 2 miles |
| 18:55:25 | brett | Something you could say, put in your pocket? |
| 18:55:34 | MSpin | brett: not really |
| 18:55:37 | sjohnson | brett: Depending on the local countryies laws, no it will not be legal. |
| 18:56:16 | kergoth | roge99_z: root? |
| 18:56:18 | kergoth | heh |
| 18:56:19 | sjohnson | brett: That range boosting stuff is a load of crap. |
| 18:56:25 | brett | sjohnson: How about a sharp looking parabolic dish hat? |
| 18:56:31 | sjohnson | Don't wast your money. |
| 18:56:34 | brett | sjohnson: I kind of figured as much. Didn't know for sure though |
| 18:56:55 | roge99_z | kergoth just messin w/ the z |
| 18:56:57 | sjohnson | brett: You can get more range from 802.11 stuff by using a different type of attenna. |
| 18:57:08 | kergoth | roge99_z: ah :-) |
| 18:57:28 | roge99_z | kergoth new wireless card |
| 18:57:29 | sjohnson | brett: The usually is usng yagi attenna. It works much like a parabolic dish |
| 18:57:33 | brett | sjohnson: I'm wondering about my Z cf card though. I don't think there's really any way to modify the antenna on the card. |
| 18:58:16 | brett | sjohnson: I know I could setup a perminant ptp link with 2 basestations, but how about for simply increasing range on the client for roaming around? |
| 18:58:18 | kergoth | roge99_z: ah nice, which one? |
| 18:58:21 | peanut | yawns.. |
| 18:58:22 | MSpin | brett: yah, your best bet would be a nice big omnidirectional antenna on the AP |
| 18:58:23 | sjohnson | brett: No. I don't think that there is. The only modifiable client stuff has been the Orinoco cards with removable antennas |
| 18:58:30 | roge99_z | i just picked up lynksys |
| 18:58:42 | MSpin | roge99_z: I gone one of them too |
| 18:58:43 | brett | MSpin: But I'd still be limited to the range of my cf card's antenna though correct? |
| 18:58:49 | MSpin | brett: nope |
| 18:58:54 | brett | Really? |
| 18:58:57 | roge99_z | im checken the range |
| 18:59:12 | MSpin | antennas don't limit range, they jsut collect the signal |
| 18:59:22 | sjohnson | brett: you can also get an AP with more power and more gain. The Cisco AP's are the best AP's in that regard that I have seen. |
| 18:59:34 | MSpin | if the reciver can hear the other end it'll work |
| 18:59:59 | brett | MSpin: I got ya.. It sucks that this Compaq ap I have doesn't have a removable antenna... |
| 19:00:31 | MSpin | hrm, I bet it's an KarlNet in the box |
| 19:00:48 | roge99_z | im out in the back yard 300 ft and still working ! |
| 19:00:49 | MSpin | in wich case it has a high likelyhood of using an orinoco card |
| 19:01:01 | MSpin | and they have external antenna jacks |
| 19:01:54 | sjohnson | brett: Antenna position is also important. If you can get your AP antenna mount higher and most centralize, it will help. |
| 19:01:54 | MSpin | anyways |
| 19:01:59 | MSpin | I gotta run |
| 19:02:01 | roge99_z | kergoth whens that 2.6 coming |
| 19:02:30 | kergoth | roge99_z: today, though it may not have much for feature additions, it'll at least be more functional :-) |
| 19:02:52 | roge99_z | cool ! |
| 19:03:41 | peanut | awesome news! |
| 19:03:48 | peanut | kergoth again releases before sharp :) |
| 19:04:10 | kergoth | roge99_z: I'm tantalizingly close to being able to 'make openzaurus;' to produce a release. heh. its what i'm working on at the moment. |
| 19:04:55 | roge99_z | wireless stuff fixed ? |
| 19:05:25 | kergoth | roge99_z: yeah.. the wlan conf files were fucked up. hehe. fixed that, and made the games actually work again.. |
| 19:05:48 | roge99_z | cool |
| 19:06:53 | roge99_z | i had to switch back to 1.02 to get this card to work |
| 19:07:12 | Shunt | what's the big diff between OZ and the regular rom, except for the loss of java/opera? |
| 19:07:14 | roge99_z | i much prefer OZ |
| 19:08:02 | kergoth | Shunt: http://www.zauruszone.com/wiki/index.php?OpenZaurusFeatures |
| 19:08:06 | kergoth | afk. food. |
| 19:08:12 | brett | sjohnson: I was thinking of trying to get a signal to a coffee shop 3 blocks up the street.. Think it's possible? |
| 19:08:24 | Shunt | yeah, but it doesn't seem like it adds anything... just subtracts.... |
| 19:08:47 | brett | sjohnson: I don't have a clear los, but I was wondering if I could maybe bounce the signal off of another building... |
| 19:10:00 | sjohnson | brett: Forget three blocks. You will only get a few hundred feet (at best) with a stardard cient card. |
| 19:10:34 | sjohnson | brett: For that kind of range your will need a directional antenna on both ends (i.e. 2 AP). |
| 19:10:37 | brett | sjohnson: Maybe if I used repeater blimps? |
| 19:10:39 | brett | :) |
| 19:10:57 | brett | sjohnson: Ok, but do you think it would be possible to bounce the signal off of a concrete building? |
| 19:11:03 | roge99 | brett: my z was fading in and out at around 350ft ftom tha AP |
| 19:12:37 | brett | Hum |
| 19:13:32 | sjohnson | brett: You can setup repeater AP's that can bridge the distance. |
| 19:14:17 | brett | sjohnson: I don't have access to any point in between. Well, I could try, but it's probably a no. Could I maybe set up a panel on the wall that's reflective to radio waves of that wavelength? |
| 19:14:35 | sjohnson | Other you will need direction antenna. With theright atennas and direct LOS. You can get a range of miles. |
| 19:15:00 | brett | sjohnson: Right, I'm curious about the possibility of bouncing the signal though, to get around the building in the way... |
| 19:18:05 | sjohnson | brett: For get that. You can't use onmi antenna's for that. No enough signal strength. |
| 19:18:12 | sjohnson | f/For get/Forget/ |
| 19:19:58 | sjohnson | brett: For distances of more then 200-300 feet. You need directional attennas |
| 19:20:07 | sjohnson | or semi-directional. |
| 19:21:06 | brett | sjohnson: I got that. :) I'm wondering if it's even physically possible to bounce a signal though. With focused antennas. |
| 19:21:45 | brett | I was planning on asking them if they'd set up an ap there with a dsl connection, when they say no, I was hoping to have a backup plan. |
| 19:22:07 | sjohnson | brett: I don'tknow enough to answer that. My radio days are 20 years in the past. |
| 19:22:22 | brett | sjohnson: Cool deal. At any rate, thanks for the info. |
| 19:22:28 | sjohnson | NP |
| 19:29:16 | peanut | so basically a 15dBi gain antenna would probably help my AP a lot |
| 19:54:40 | peanut | returns |
| 19:55:16 | brett | He has returned! |
| 19:55:26 | brett | *trumpets play* |
| 19:55:28 | brett | :) |
| 20:02:13 | sjohnson | yawn |
| 20:02:16 | sjohnson | ;> |
| 20:20:57 | kergoth`lunch | woot! my romimage->ipk scripts now remove the symlink hell in the fs.. fixes all the paths as if the Z used a single jffs2 filesystem. |
| 20:21:32 | kergoth | one or two more tasks and the buildsystem can build OZ 3.. then its completely in the hands of casey and tim riker to fix jffs2. |
| 20:21:58 | whardier | jffs? |
| 20:22:26 | kergoth | yep |
| 20:23:01 | peanut | does anyone use hancom here? |
| 20:23:11 | peanut | and not on the Z, on the desktop :) |
| 20:23:22 | peanut | is thinking of waiting and getting the pro version.. |
| 20:23:40 | kergoth | nope, i use staroffice, myself |
| 20:24:06 | peanut | i do as well (along with wp 8) |
| 20:24:18 | peanut | since staroffice *nix doesn't do wp conversions :( |
| 20:24:36 | kergoth | ah |
| 20:24:41 | peanut | that was a bear, getting wp8 working under newer distros/kernels |
| 20:25:01 | kergoth | not surprising.. i havent used wp8 in a long ass time |
| 20:25:08 | peanut | how good of a job does hancom do on the z |
| 20:25:16 | peanut | i.e. if its good on the Z, its probably better on the desktop |
| 20:25:27 | peanut | kergoth: i'm at a university remember? |
| 20:25:33 | peanut | we use wp quite often! |
| 20:25:33 | kergoth | peanut: oh yeah :-) |
| 20:25:44 | peanut | otherwise, so would be sweet |
| 20:26:04 | kergoth | peanut: hancom on the Z is pretty decent, hopefully they can get the kinks worked out in qa.. the bugs were pretty bad in jan08, iirc |
| 20:26:05 | peanut | i'm sure hancom doesn't do wp either :( |
| 20:26:09 | kergoth | s/jan08/jan14/ |
| 20:26:16 | kergoth | peanut: probably not |
| 20:26:17 | peanut | ouch.. |
| 20:26:29 | peanut | bought wp2k, what a waste of $$ that was.. |
| 20:26:39 | peanut | i never did get that to work right.. |
| 20:26:45 | peanut | or at all even.. |
| 20:27:15 | kergoth | hehe. i never bothered getting anything after wp8 |
| 20:27:21 | kergoth | from them i mean |
| 20:27:37 | peanut | i had wp7 running |
| 20:27:43 | peanut | then i went to wp8 (which was a godsend!) |
| 20:27:45 | whardier | hmm |
| 20:28:19 | Shunt | kergoth: Is that what they're waiting on to release a new ROM (hancom)? |
| 20:28:42 | kergoth | Shunt: not sure if thats whats holding them up.. all i know is its in QA |
| 20:28:51 | kergoth | Shunt: certainly possible tho. |
| 20:29:31 | Shunt | *really* wants a serial cable... |
| 20:33:02 | peanut | Shunt: and i really want a cradle.. (ask anyone :) |
| 20:33:05 | peanut | just be patient :) |
| 20:33:17 | Shunt | peanut: You don't have a cradle??? |
| 20:33:44 | peanut | Shunt: yes. i meant s/ a / another // |
| 20:38:33 | kendrick2 | re |
| 20:38:38 | scanline | is back (gone 01:51:59) |
| 20:38:41 | kergoth | sup kendrick |
| 20:39:32 | kendrick2 | finally stuck new mp3s on his cf card :) |
| 20:40:09 | Shunt | Does anyone else's battery meter indicate anything other than 100% and 40% when not on AC power? |
| 20:43:05 | kendrick2 | 10% and 0% ;) |
| 20:43:37 | Shunt | that's somewhat annoying! :) |
| 20:43:42 | kendrick2 | indeed |
| 20:51:48 | kendrick2 | runs to lunch |
| 20:52:46 | brett | Shunt: Jason said he thinks that sharp fixed it. |
| 20:53:07 | brett | It's even more annoying to have it read full, then almost empty just before it dies. |
| 20:55:18 | Shunt | Mine will at least go to 40%... |
| 20:55:42 | Shunt | ALthough, I've put it in the charger, when it's said full, gone to a console and typed apm, and had it return 20% from apm |
| 20:55:44 | whardier | fuck |
| 20:55:53 | whardier | I wish somebody would stopstealing my packets |
| 20:55:53 | brett | Hello whardier. |
| 20:56:09 | brett | whardier: I know, there aren't enough packets to go around these days. |
| 20:56:34 | brett | Shunt: I've never thought to try out the command line power stuff. I should play with that. |
| 20:57:19 | brett | I wonder what's going to happen to the internet when the world's packet supply starts to dwindle... |
| 20:57:59 | kend-lnch | nah |
| 20:58:03 | kend-lnch | just like oil, we'll never run out! |
| 20:58:03 | whardier | mine sure is |
| 20:58:04 | kend-lnch | oops |
| 20:58:06 | kend-lnch | i'm at lunch ;) |
| 20:58:08 | brett | heh |
| 20:58:22 | kend-lnch | oh shit! |
| 20:58:32 | kend-lnch | i ran apm: "AC offline, batter status: low: 40%" |
| 20:58:38 | kend-lnch | i was like "WHAT?! it'splugged in!" |
| 20:58:45 | kend-lnch | then notice i had kicked the wall plug out at som epoint. DOH! |
| 20:59:09 | kend-lnch | ok i'm off |
| 20:59:52 | scanline | is away: food(sorta) |
| 21:04:40 | kergoth | tests a 'make openzaurus' |
| 21:05:01 | brett | Pray |
| 21:05:20 | kergoth | argh |
| 21:05:21 | kergoth | i forgot something |
| 21:05:45 | kergoth | I forgot to update the rootfs_to_ipk script to the latest ver.. the new ver fixes the paths to get rid of the ugly symlink structure when it yanks from the rootfs |
| 21:06:38 | brett | kergoth: I'm pretty much at a loss as to why wlanctl is erroring out... |
| 21:06:49 | kergoth | ugh |
| 21:06:50 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:06:53 | kergoth | gdb? strace? |
| 21:06:54 | kergoth | :-) |
| 21:07:08 | brett | That's my next step. I've been making a lot of calls today. Hard to stay focused on it. |
| 21:07:19 | kergoth | ah yeah |
| 21:07:34 | kergoth | I'm trying to decide whether to buy a townhouse or not |
| 21:07:49 | kergoth | I'm renting now |
| 21:07:59 | kergoth | ugh I should never have deleted bulid/ |
| 21:08:05 | brett | Home ownership isn't what it's cracked out to be. |
| 21:08:06 | kergoth | s#bulid/#build/# |
| 21:08:08 | brett | cracked up |
| 21:08:20 | kergoth | brett: indeed, but with a townhouse at least I dont have to do yardwork :-) |
| 21:08:22 | kergoth | i HATE yardwork |
| 21:08:24 | kergoth | hehe |
| 21:08:26 | brett | That's true. |
| 21:08:56 | scanline | is back (gone 00:09:04) |
| 21:09:26 | whardier | blah |
| 21:09:32 | whardier | yard work here is break out the snow plow |
| 21:09:39 | kergoth | hah |
| 21:09:56 | kergoth | yawns |
| 21:10:08 | kergoth | goddamnit. now i have to wait for glibc & the kernel to build again |
| 21:10:13 | brett | When I lived in Oregon, we had to shovel the snow off of our roof in the winter. |
| 21:10:17 | whardier | waits forSDL tofinish |
| 21:10:17 | kergoth | i shouldnt have deleted build/f@%! |
| 21:10:19 | brett | kergoth: I'm doing that now |
| 21:10:21 | brett | wee |
| 21:10:22 | kergoth | brett: thats just sad |
| 21:10:25 | kergoth | brett: hehe |
| 21:10:26 | kergoth | fun |
| 21:10:36 | brett | So uhh.. Nice weather eh? dum de dum |
| 21:11:22 | kergoth | once ive got this damned thing building an actual full fledged openzaurus rootfs, I'm going to have to work the kinks out of half the .mk's in configs/ |
| 21:11:25 | brett | Someone needs to build a gcc accelerator card. |
| 21:11:46 | kergoth | hah. get an smp box ;-) |
| 21:12:20 | brett | That'd be nice, but quicker compiles doesn't justify the cost for me. That's about the only benifit I'd see out of it. |
| 21:12:25 | whardier | anyjoo |
| 21:12:27 | whardier | off to work I go |
| 21:12:31 | brett | w00t |
| 21:13:22 | brett | kergoth: I'm still getting the header errors. |
| 21:13:30 | kergoth | brett: on which package build? |
| 21:13:34 | kergoth | brett: i'm still on glibc |
| 21:14:02 | brett | Unfortunatly, for some reason my scrollback in Konsole stopped working. I'll retry from another. |
| 21:14:10 | kergoth | k |
| 21:14:29 | kergoth | make openzaurus 2>&1 | tee oz.log; # woot |
| 21:14:31 | kergoth | :-P |
| 21:14:36 | brett | that'd work too |
| 21:15:12 | brett | The scrollback stops working every now and again. I wonder what causes that. |
| 21:15:20 | kergoth | weird |
| 21:15:39 | brett | Probably the devil. |
| 21:15:49 | kergoth | hah. konsole is possessed. |
| 21:18:18 | brett | busybox |
| 21:18:24 | brett | That's where it's stopping |
| 21:18:59 | brett | /opt/Embedix/tools/lib/gcc-lib/arm-linux/2.95.2/../../../../arm-linux/include/bits/local_lim.h:36: linux/limits.h: No such file or directory |
| 21:20:18 | sjohnson | brett: It sounds linke you don't have the symlink to your kernel src in place. |
| 21:21:10 | brett | sjohnson: I didn't think I needed to manually set that. |
| 21:21:18 | brett | For kergoths build process.. |
| 21:21:43 | sjohnson | brett: The cross compile tool-chain too chain has it's own include directory structure |
| 21:21:54 | brett | ah ok |
| 21:22:09 | sjohnson | brett: You should only have to do it once. |
| 21:22:16 | kergoth | sjohnson: nono we dont need that |
| 21:22:34 | sjohnson | kergoth: OK. I stand corrected. |
| 21:22:34 | kergoth | sjohnson: the buildsystem builds its own kernel.. we need to -I the headers from that, not from the toolchain's kernel headers |
| 21:22:36 | kergoth | :-) |
| 21:22:38 | kergoth | sjohnson: thanks tho |
| 21:22:53 | kergoth | brett: thats failing trying to build what? |
| 21:22:57 | brett | busybox |
| 21:23:29 | kergoth | brett: hmm i've built that one before.. lemme think |
| 21:28:18 | brett | arm-linux-gcc -Wall -Wshadow -Os -fomit-frame-pointer -D_GNU_SOURCE -DBB_VER='"0.60.2"' -DBB_BT='"2002.01.29-09:27+0000"' -DUSE_SYSTEM_PWD_GRP -DPATH_MAX=4095 -Ilibbb -DL_full_version -c libbb/messages.c -o libbb/full_version.o |
| 21:29:02 | brett | That's where they start |
| 21:34:49 | bipolar_away | is away: I'm not here... Really.... |
| 21:55:41 | kergoth | hm |
| 21:55:47 | kergoth | mine freaked at net-tools |
| 21:55:49 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:55:51 | kergoth | argh |
| 21:57:50 | kergoth | BZFlag: thanks for adding the romimage split .mk, that saved me a step. I've got it to the point where it should build openzaurus now, and in any case where a config/target.mk doesnt exist, it'll extract that target as an ipk out of the romimage's rootfs and use that. |
| 21:57:56 | kergoth | :-) |
| 22:07:11 | NeoTron | on a Zaurus, how many columns are "ok" in a terminal? |
| 22:10:26 | brett | kergoth: That's pretty slick. |
| 22:10:38 | Twiun | Howdy peeps |
| 22:10:50 | brett | hello |
| 22:11:12 | kergoth | Twiun: hey |
| 22:12:02 | whardier | you are all pretty slick |
| 22:12:08 | whardier | slick in the behind! |
| 22:12:15 | brett | wow |
| 22:12:56 | tux_mike | whardier: go have a snowball fight or something |
| 22:13:08 | whardier | I am teaching aleuts how to type |
| 22:13:11 | brett | yay! snowball fight! |
| 22:13:52 | tux_mike | you need recriation, whardier |
| 22:14:19 | kergoth | brett: what are you using as your make target .. all? |
| 22:14:25 | brett | openzaurus |
| 22:14:37 | brett | And busybox |
| 22:14:48 | kergoth | k |
| 22:15:12 | kergoth | gah i hate how it does a make install on glibc on every build. need to have it check for the existance of files in root/ to avoid re-running that shit |
| 22:15:26 | brett | kergoth: Yeah, I noticed that. |
| 22:16:00 | kergoth | brett: the prob is, I dont keep track of every single file we need from a given package, so i dunno what to check for |
| 22:16:01 | kergoth | heh |
| 22:16:21 | kergoth | need to add a Files= in the .mk's , like Depends= |
| 22:16:28 | brett | kergoth: Can't you test for the existance of important pieces? Like the c library? |
| 22:16:38 | brett | And just assume the rest of it is there. |
| 22:16:49 | kergoth | brett: yeah i can, but i'm trying to further generalize it.. every single package re-runs its make install every damned time |
| 22:16:58 | kergoth | heh |
| 22:17:08 | whardier | I am gonna use PerlSDL for the public access channel here :) |
| 22:17:09 | whardier | joyeee! |
| 22:17:13 | kergoth | whardier: nice. |
| 22:17:15 | brett | yeah... |
| 22:17:27 | whardier | I got some neat demo's working so far |
| 22:17:32 | kendrick2 | what's this? |
| 22:17:32 | kendrick2 | SDL? |
| 22:17:46 | whardier | I should have mentioned that in another channel |
| 22:17:47 | brett | That's got to be one boring public access channel. |
| 22:17:55 | whardier | NO THERE IS NO SDL FOR THE ZAURUS YET |
| 22:18:05 | kendrick2 | ;) |
| 22:18:09 | whardier | brett.. ever watched standard public access channels? |
| 22:18:09 | brett | SDL? For the zaurus? Where? |
| 22:18:19 | brett | whardier: Yeah, we have some really entertaining ones up here. |
| 22:18:24 | whardier | like from your city |
| 22:18:27 | whardier | they list jobs and such |
| 22:18:28 | kendrick2 | but overcode will save us all! |
| 22:18:40 | whardier | overcode? |
| 22:18:47 | kergoth | gah |
| 22:18:47 | brett | whardier: Ahh, no. The public access channel here lets anyone run their shows. |
| 22:18:51 | kergoth | busybox builds fine on my box brett |
| 22:18:55 | kendrick2 | john hall |
| 22:18:57 | brett | kergoth: gahh. |
| 22:19:28 | kergoth | brett: i'm gonna wipe out build/busybox* and sources/dl/busybox* and try again |
| 22:19:42 | kergoth | k, its working |
| 22:19:44 | kergoth | ... |
| 22:19:47 | kergoth | waits patiently |
| 22:19:50 | brett | Ok. I grabbed a fresh cvs install before I tried again. |
| 22:20:01 | brett | So I'm using whatever you had in there a couple hours ago. |
| 22:20:25 | kergoth | hah |
| 22:20:26 | kergoth | i found the prob |
| 22:20:28 | whardier | brett: well that too |
| 22:20:34 | kergoth | i have a /opt/Embedix/tools/arm-linux/include/linux/ |
| 22:20:39 | whardier | I am gonna add video to it |
| 22:20:44 | brett | whardier: Nifty |
| 22:20:51 | kergoth | it shouldnt be including that, it should be using our headers in our kernel. oops. |
| 22:20:52 | whardier | as soon as they decide to buy me a s-link enabled video switcher |
| 22:21:00 | brett | kergoth: Heh. |
| 22:21:07 | whardier | we can already run any avi/mpeg/mpeg2/mpeg4 |
| 22:21:23 | Shunt | mpegs can be slllooow tho |
| 22:21:39 | whardier | its a 1.5ghz machine with a gforce2 |
| 22:21:51 | whardier | not many things slow it down |
| 22:22:01 | Shunt | Oh, I should pay attention. I thought you meant on the zaurus :P |
| 22:22:06 | whardier | hahah |
| 22:22:11 | brett | Except quake3 at 1600x1200 |
| 22:22:16 | whardier | no |
| 22:22:21 | whardier | gforce2 takes care of that |
| 22:22:33 | brett | I've got a geforce2. There's no way it'll pull a decent fps at that res. |
| 22:22:35 | kendrick2 | there's a CF adapter for japanese zaurus, i think, which provides video out for tv :) |
| 22:22:38 | whardier | we are limited to 800x600 as well |
| 22:22:52 | brett | well yeah, for tv. |
| 22:22:57 | whardier | kendrick2 there needs to be one for us! |
| 22:22:58 | kendrick2 | it'd be cool for presentations onto a projector :) |
| 22:23:01 | kendrick2 | whard - totally |
| 22:23:07 | whardier | haha |
| 22:23:11 | kendrick2 | we need to convince trolltech to emulate more palmos functionality |
| 22:23:12 | whardier | instant presenter |
| 22:23:17 | whardier | I should port SDL to the Z |
| 22:23:22 | whardier | and perl-SDL |
| 22:23:25 | kendrick2 | dude! john hall is already doing it!!! |
| 22:23:29 | whardier | that would make my money jingle |
| 22:23:31 | kendrick2 | *** on channels: #handhelds.org #palmchat #ko #exloki #demoscene @#sdl #loki |
| 22:23:34 | whardier | john hall? |
| 22:23:46 | whardier | so sdl for QT or for the FB? |
| 22:23:47 | kendrick2 | wrote the book on SDL (_literally_ :) ... for no starch press) |
| 22:23:48 | brett | Why isn't he in this one? |
| 22:23:50 | kendrick2 | FB |
| 22:23:59 | kendrick2 | dunno if he has his zaurus yet :) |
| 22:23:59 | whardier | but it already works on the FB |
| 22:24:12 | kendrick2 | yes, but it's being tweaked, and it needs to handle input & such |
| 22:24:18 | whardier | just like any FB application |
| 22:24:31 | kendrick2 | once it's done, we can all play Mad Bomber on Zaurus & iPAQ >:^) |
| 22:24:33 | kendrick2 | http://www.sonic.net/~nbs/madbomber-sideways.gif |
| 22:24:42 | brett | kendrick2: OUTSTANDING |
| 22:24:42 | Shunt | UT on the zaurus. Come on, it can be done, maybe :P |
| 22:24:49 | whardier | I laid down a poo this morning that made everybody leave the hoiuse |
| 22:24:57 | brett | whardier: OUTSTANDING |
| 22:25:00 | kendrick2 | that code is a lot of "#ifndef EMBEDDED" ... "#else" ... "#endif" :) |
| 22:25:31 | whardier | http://www.alancoxonachip.com/ |
| 22:25:34 | kendrick2 | should write some non-textured poly, integer-math 3D game :) |
| 22:26:39 | kendrick2 | doesn't like Qt :( |
| 22:26:40 | kendrick2 | cries |
| 22:26:41 | whardier | go for it |
| 22:26:46 | whardier | watches your nodes wiggle |
| 22:26:56 | kergoth | woot |
| 22:27:02 | kergoth | brett: finally reproduced your prob. :-) |
| 22:27:08 | brett | kendrick2: I'm not a big fan either. I started playing around with it, porting some small stuff and such, but I'm not sold at all. |
| 22:27:09 | whardier | oh happy day! |
| 22:27:15 | brett | kergoth: woohoo. |
| 22:27:24 | whardier | kergoth reproduced |
| 22:27:30 | kergoth | aha |
| 22:27:31 | kendrick2 | qt and those are all excellent for gui apps |
| 22:27:50 | kendrick2 | but i'm a game coder, so i'm used to polling events and states and chugging along at my own pace |
| 22:27:53 | kergoth | brett: k found your problem. passing make an additional parameter that'll solve it |
| 22:28:00 | brett | -I something? |
| 22:28:25 | kendrick2 | 'course, that's why i don't do many puzzle games for linux... those would be better in an honest-to-goodness GUI |
| 22:28:53 | kergoth | brett: course :-) |
| 22:29:01 | kergoth | brett: found another bug in the busybox crosscompile as well |
| 22:29:08 | brett | kergoth: And when did this become _my_ problem? :) |
| 22:29:50 | kergoth | brett: o |
| 22:29:52 | kergoth | er |
| 22:30:09 | kergoth | brett: i'm in tech support. when you need help with something, its your problem. i'll help solve YOUR problem. |
| 22:30:11 | kergoth | brett: :-P |
| 22:30:14 | brett | haha |
| 22:30:29 | brett | Whatever floats your boat man. :) |
| 22:31:06 | brett | kergoth: Why are you in tech support? Why not go for a job as a build engineer or something. Seems like you'd be pretty good at it. |
| 22:31:49 | kergoth | brett: I'd like to, but I'm in minnesota, and I doubt I could compete with the laid off people who certainly have degrees, when I dont. |
| 22:31:51 | kergoth | heh |
| 22:32:01 | brett | You'd be suprised. |
| 22:32:24 | brett | Although, minnesota.. Dunno about that. |
| 22:32:29 | kergoth | aha |
| 22:32:30 | kergoth | yeah |
| 22:32:33 | kergoth | :-) |
| 22:32:38 | kergoth | i'll update my resume and look around tho, cant hurt |
| 22:32:49 | brett | Not up for moving? |
| 22:33:19 | kergoth | but to where? I hesitate to move somewhere not knowing if i'll have a job there.. and no one wants to hire people from out of state right now |
| 22:33:20 | tux_mike | woooOooooOoooo! |
| 22:33:28 | kergoth | tux_mike: progress? |
| 22:33:33 | tux_mike | major progress |
| 22:33:38 | brett | kergoth: Can't hurt to look. But yeah. Bad time right now. |
| 22:33:40 | tux_mike | it stopped segfaulting! :) |
| 22:33:59 | kergoth | tux_mike: sweet :-) |
| 22:34:13 | brett | Seattle's job market could be compared to.. I dunno a shitty thrift store right now. |
| 22:34:19 | tux_mike | now, to make this damned loop iterate more than once |
| 22:34:24 | brett | It's a barren wasteland |
| 22:35:06 | brett | Not unlike the island that whardier's on right now. :) |
| 22:36:57 | kergoth | tests the config/busybox.mk fix |
| 22:38:09 | brett | kergoth: Are you really planning on releasing a new rom image today? I don't want to work on this stupid thing any more today. |
| 22:38:19 | tux_mike | doh! i didn't mean to reuse that variable! that's why! |
| 22:38:20 | brett | wlanctl that is |
| 22:39:44 | tux_mike | wooooooo! |
| 22:40:02 | kergoth | brett: yeah I'll probably throw out beta 2.6 using hte current wlan stuff, just as a bugfix release for the broken wlan conf files and broken games. |
| 22:40:07 | brett | tux_mike: Good feeling eh? |
| 22:40:14 | brett | kergoth: Cool deal. |
| 22:40:15 | kergoth | brett: we'll hold off on the new wlan stuff for beta 3 |
| 22:40:22 | tux_mike | yah, just fixed my iteration problem :) |
| 22:40:29 | kergoth | tux_mike: congrats |
| 22:40:43 | tux_mike | stupid me reused a var i wasn't supposed to. changed it and bam, everything works |
| 22:40:47 | brett | kergoth: Hopefully by then I'll have enough time to throw together some wirless monitoring utilities too. |
| 22:41:04 | brett | kergoth: The greates thing about the new wlan stuff is that it supports the wireless extensions. We can do a lot with that. |
| 22:41:16 | kergoth | brett: indeed |
| 22:43:40 | tux_mike | where's my header file |
| 22:44:12 | kergoth | tux_mike: i'd have to say its most likely wherever you put it :-P |
| 22:44:49 | tux_mike | i found it... .it's laying on the floor, five feet from me.... i should go pick it up, granted i need it, but i just don't want to reach |
| 22:45:03 | tux_mike | telekinisys would be so handy now |
| 22:45:42 | kergoth | tux_mike: telekenesis would be handy most of the time :-) |
| 22:45:46 | tux_mike | yup |
| 22:46:04 | tux_mike | wouldn't need remote controls, that go dead and get lost. |
| 22:46:14 | tux_mike | need a beer, just think about it. |
| 22:46:37 | tux_mike | you want that jar of candy that's on the top shelf... yoink! |
| 22:47:19 | tux_mike | crap... i need to get up to clean off my printer |
| 22:47:23 | tux_mike | >< |
| 22:52:08 | tux_mike | do you need -Wall for g++ to tell you when you arent using vars? |
| 22:52:57 | brett | Your header file is laying on the ground? |
| 22:53:02 | kergoth | lol |
| 22:53:14 | brett | backs away slowly. |
| 22:53:19 | kergoth | brett: cvs up configs/busybox.mk; # I committed the fixed ver. |
| 22:53:41 | kergoth | brett: also, cvs up configs/glibc.mk; |
| 22:53:57 | brett | ok, here we go again |
| 22:54:06 | kergoth | hold on a sec |
| 22:54:08 | kergoth | k |
| 22:54:15 | kergoth | now, do a cvs up configs/glibc.mk |
| 22:54:15 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:54:42 | brett | ok, here we go again... again |
| 22:54:46 | kergoth | the old glibc.mk was deleting its /usr/include from root/.. i changed it to leave it there until we need to build a rootfs |
| 22:55:09 | kergoth | then had busybox -I$(BUILD_DIR)/linux/include -I$(TARGET_DIR)/usr/include |
| 22:55:09 | kergoth | heh |
| 22:55:17 | kergoth | it built fine on mine, so let me know how it goes |
| 22:55:20 | brett | trall la laa, 'nothing to do for....' |
| 22:56:47 | brett | doo do dooo. creating the charmaps |
| 22:56:53 | brett | again |
| 22:56:56 | brett | :) |
| 22:57:00 | whardier | I rule |
| 22:57:38 | brett | kergoth: How about we just leave out glib? I mean, really. How important is a c lib anyways? It sure would save space to ditch it. |
| 22:57:49 | kergoth | hah |
| 22:57:59 | brett | People can just write their own io routines if they need them |
| 22:58:29 | kergoth | k time to make the ncurses crosscompile sane |
| 22:58:36 | brett | kergoth: Looks like it's gonna work this time |
| 22:58:41 | kergoth | brett: good |
| 22:58:52 | brett | yep, it's done. no errors |
| 22:58:58 | brett | cool deal |
| 22:59:25 | kergoth | watches ncurses fail in the same way |
| 22:59:27 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:59:29 | kergoth | argh |
| 22:59:34 | brett | arm-linux-strip: /home/arm/tmp/buildroot-oz/root/usr/bin/glibcbug: File format not recognized |
| 22:59:39 | brett | Why is it trying to strip this? |
| 22:59:44 | kergoth | hmm dunno |
| 23:00:02 | brett | It's a shell script, there's about 5 more similar. |
| 23:00:19 | kergoth | oh |
| 23:03:13 | peanut | anyone here ever hear of cubital tunnel syndrome? |
| 23:03:23 | kergoth | peanut: its called carpal tunnel syndrome |
| 23:03:34 | kergoth | never heard of cubital tunnel syndrome :-) |
| 23:03:39 | brett | cubital? |
| 23:03:56 | peanut | cubital its the reverse of carpal |
| 23:04:01 | peanut | i'm guessing no one has ever heard of it.. |
| 23:04:11 | kergoth | nope, havent |
| 23:04:15 | peanut | i.e. outside of hand (near pinky) instead of near your thumb |
| 23:04:33 | sj_away | peanut: Isn't that syndrom where no people are deperate to leave their cubicle and seek to tunnel out? |
| 23:04:38 | brett | peanut: I thought cts was the general swelling of your tendons |
| 23:04:46 | brett | hehe sj |
| 23:04:51 | peanut | hehe |
| 23:05:16 | peanut | yes, both "cts" are swelling of the tendons.. |
| 23:05:29 | peanut | however, there is two types of it.. the more known carpal and then cubital |
| 23:05:29 | brett | wow, you learn something new every day. |
| 23:05:55 | peanut | thinks his wife has that :( |
| 23:06:03 | peanut | and shes only 26 |
| 23:06:05 | brett | Tell her to quit here whining. |
| 23:06:45 | brett | She's got toes right? |
| 23:06:48 | peanut | hehehehe |
| 23:07:19 | peanut | loves quantum leap |
| 23:07:49 | peanut | yes.. tcp/ip enabled legos! |
| 23:07:51 | peanut | drools |
| 23:07:58 | peanut | almost butter now! |
| 23:08:01 | tux_mike | i hate it when this happens. the tivo remote turns on both the tv and the reciver, but sometimes, it misses one or the other. one's on and the other's off :) |
| 23:08:12 | peanut | tux_mike: i hate that too! |
| 23:08:20 | peanut | likes his unified sony remote better |
| 23:08:29 | peanut | it actually only sends "on" or "off" commands |
| 23:08:33 | brett | Some digital cable boxes do that too. |
| 23:08:35 | brett | Sucks |
| 23:08:54 | peanut | is thinking of buying a universal learning remote and replacing his tivo (and everything else) |
| 23:09:05 | tux_mike | this is a sony free zone :) |
| 23:09:14 | peanut | whys that? |
| 23:09:17 | brett | peanut: You'd still have the same problem if you set up a macro to turn them both on. |
| 23:09:22 | peanut | no.. |
| 23:09:38 | peanut | not if you use the "on" command present on most electronics devices |
| 23:09:55 | NeoTron | make a universal remote app for the Zaurus. :P (it has IR right?) |
| 23:09:56 | tux_mike | peanut: i don't like sony, so i keep my house free of them. |
| 23:09:59 | brett | peanut: One signal to turn them both on? |
| 23:10:04 | peanut | brett: no.. |
| 23:10:15 | peanut | brett: one macro that sends the "on" command to multiple devices |
| 23:10:25 | peanut | tux_mike: I like sony, i have a sony card and get most things for free.. |
| 23:10:35 | peanut | the last dvd player i bought, i made 16 dollars on |
| 23:10:39 | tux_mike | well, free is good. |
| 23:10:44 | brett | peanut: Yeah, but the problem is when one of those 'on's get's missed, either you don't have it pointed the right way or something's blocking it. |
| 23:10:56 | peanut | brett: true.. |
| 23:11:15 | peanut | but it would be nice to just hit the "on" macro again to catch the missed device and not worry about turning anything off yes? |
| 23:11:27 | brett | Yeah, but that's the problem with universal remotes. |
| 23:11:33 | peanut | i loved my unified remote from sony.. |
| 23:11:40 | brett | The remote doesn't know the status of the device. |
| 23:11:52 | peanut | i would press tv and it would turn the tv on and tune to cable, turn the receiver on and set it to tv |
| 23:11:59 | peanut | brett: it doesn't have to |
| 23:12:12 | peanut | most devices (at least that i buy) have a generic on/off interface |
| 23:12:19 | peanut | as well as a "on" and "off" command |
| 23:12:23 | peanut | you program the macro to only send on. |
| 23:12:33 | peanut | no need to know device status, if its on, its on |
| 23:12:45 | brett | peanut: Oh, I got ya. Yeah, that'd work |
| 23:12:55 | tux_mike | my dad has a pronto, he has to set it up, too bad housework is getting away |
| 23:13:19 | peanut | i think the real problem is that no one works together.. |
| 23:13:27 | peanut | most sony products work good together (very good together) |
| 23:13:40 | peanut | loves the way the sony tivo interacts with his sony vcr |
| 23:13:53 | peanut | i have them hooked up via infrared to slink |
| 23:14:10 | peanut | if i press save to vcr, it turns the vcr on, and hits record |
| 23:14:11 | peanut | sweet |
| 23:14:29 | brett | It's bad for sales to make your stuff work too well with other vendors'. When people complain, you can just say, "Well that's what you get for using <competitor's> inferior products." |
| 23:15:40 | tux_mike | see marge, i told you they could deep-fry my shirt |
| 23:15:59 | brett | What I'd do, is come up with a way to actually cause the competitor's equipment to physically catch fire. |
| 23:16:11 | brett | Then they'd be sorry they didn't buy my stuff. |
| 23:18:00 | tux_mike | most of the stuff i have is phillips. some rca, toshiba dvd player and a yamaha reciver |
| 23:18:14 | tux_mike | i soooooo wanna get a phillips set top dvd-r |
| 23:18:40 | peanut | just got an hp dvd-rw |
| 23:18:46 | peanut | wait. sorry. .dvd+rw |
| 23:18:49 | brett | You should try a BrettCom dvd-r. Just make sure to use a BrettCom amp as well. |
| 23:18:51 | peanut | damn multiple standards |
| 23:20:27 | tux_mike | why so? any specific features? |
| 23:20:57 | peanut | no.. dvd-rw != dvd+rw |
| 23:21:01 | kergoth | growls |
| 23:21:23 | peanut | whats wrong kergoth? |
| 23:21:46 | kergoth | I hate source trees that dont give one the ability to ADD a -I or -L from an env variable without blowing away the ones it uses. |
| 23:21:58 | kergoth | And source trees that dont give one the ability to specify a DESTDIR to direct it where to make install to. |
| 23:23:34 | kergoth | gah. in ncurses I can either blow away CFLAGS on the make cmdline and ensure that it keeps a -O2 in it, or specify a CPPFLAGS that is identical to the one in the makefile but with one -I added. |
| 23:23:35 | kergoth | argh |
| 23:24:36 | brett | that's gumby ghetto |
| 23:24:52 | kergoth | no shit |
| 23:25:19 | kergoth | well that worked |
| 23:25:25 | kergoth | a bit of a hack, but at least ncurses builds now |
| 23:25:43 | brett | What we really need is a cluster of Z's to build the stuff. |
| 23:25:52 | brett | hehe |
| 23:25:57 | kergoth | no shit.. actually a cluster of tuxscreens would do as well :-) |
| 23:26:13 | kergoth | gah damnit i forgot to change the LDFLAGS in that build, didnt quite complete |
| 23:27:43 | kergoth | damnit, had to do another hack like that |
| 23:28:07 | kergoth | man, my next project is not going to make all these mistakes. |
| 23:28:08 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:30:28 | kergoth | goddamnit |
| 23:30:35 | kergoth | a -L adds to the beginning of the lib path right, not the end? |
| 23:31:21 | brett | Damn, that's a good question. You'd expect it to. |
| 23:31:48 | kergoth | yep. its freakin trying to read the symbols from /lib/libc.so.6, yet I have a -L/home/kergoth/roms/openzaurus/buildroot-oz/root/lib, and that dir contains libc.so.6 |
| 23:33:16 | brett | didn't realize there was an openzaurus channel |
| 23:33:35 | kergoth | its empty :-) |
| 23:33:35 | kergoth | hehe |
| 23:38:29 | brett | kergoth: libc is implied though isn't it? |
| 23:38:51 | brett | ie, does -L change the search path for libc? |
| 23:39:06 | kergoth | hmm good point |
| 23:39:08 | kergoth | but the thing is.. |
| 23:39:18 | kergoth | its using arm-linux-gcc as the compiler |
| 23:39:27 | kergoth | why the fuck is it looking in /usr/lib at all |
| 23:39:29 | brett | and it's looking in /lib? |
| 23:39:30 | kergoth | s/compiler/linker/ |
| 23:39:38 | kergoth | s#/usr/lib#/lib#g |
| 23:39:39 | kergoth | yesh |
| 23:39:43 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:39:51 | brett | Are you sure about that? It really should be looking in /opt/blah/blah/blah |
| 23:40:06 | tux_mike | good question.... my arm-linux-gcc doesn't |
| 23:40:12 | kergoth | /lib/libc.so.6: could not read symbols: Invalid operation |
| 23:40:23 | brett | weird |
| 23:40:41 | tux_mike | hrm... i think mine tells me something diferent when it can't read symbols too... not sure though |
| 23:41:04 | kergoth | does it matter where in the cmdline the -L's are? |
| 23:41:05 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:41:10 | kergoth | is grasping at straws |
| 23:41:16 | brett | kergoth: It compiles other things though, and it has to be using the proper libc for those. |
| 23:41:25 | kergoth | argh |
| 23:41:26 | kergoth | yep |
| 23:41:30 | kergoth | so i dunno wtf is going on |
| 23:41:36 | tux_mike | kergoth: it shouldn't |
| 23:41:42 | brett | What are you trying to compile? |
| 23:41:44 | kergoth | its a long fucking link line |
| 23:41:55 | kergoth | brett: ncurses 5.. i've built it for the Z before, though |
| 23:41:58 | kergoth | hrm |
| 23:42:11 | brett | if I do a 'make ncurses' should it duplicate your problem? |
| 23:42:27 | kergoth | brett: actually it wont get that far |
| 23:42:39 | kergoth | brett: i havent committed the changes that fixed the kernel include prob yet |
| 23:42:55 | brett | Can you do that real quick so I can see how it goes for me? |
| 23:43:05 | kergoth | yup, hold on |
| 23:43:08 | brett | cool beano |
| 23:43:24 | kergoth | cvs up configs/templates/gnu configs/ncurses.mk; |
| 23:43:27 | kergoth | they're committed |
| 23:44:43 | kergoth | arm-linux-gcc -shared -Wl,-soname,`basename ../lib/libncurses.so.5.2 .5.2`.5,-stats,-lc -o [output file] [shitloads of object files] |
| 23:44:52 | kergoth | bingo. it has a -lc, manually linking in libc |
| 23:44:58 | kergoth | hence, it uses the link path. |
| 23:45:37 | brett | good eye. Now why do you figure they did that? |
| 23:45:40 | BZFlag | kergoth: you saw my sharprom I presume. |
| 23:46:24 | kergoth | BZFlag: indeed, thanks. I threw up a sharproot that mounts it using the loopback device, and changed the $(Depends) target in openzaurus.mk to use ipks from the rootfs when they dont exist as proper .mk's in configs/ |
| 23:46:48 | kergoth | brett: the configure script is stuffing that line into the Makefile.. it isnt there in Makefile.in |
| 23:47:05 | brett | I wonder if some platforms require it explicitly? |
| 23:47:19 | brett | Well no, because that'd mean gcc is different... |
| 23:48:15 | kergoth | BZFlag: why would the configure script in ncurses be adding a -lc to the arm-linux-gcc link line? its causing it to link against /lib/libc.so.6, and thereby fails. |
| 23:48:19 | kergoth | hm |
| 23:48:37 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:48:44 | brett | Man kergoth. I don't see how you can stand doing this. :) I hate reading other people's code, let alone other people's build scripts. |
| 23:48:52 | brett | shudders. |
| 23:49:02 | kergoth | looks like when you build for a linux-[something] target, -lc is on the line it sets |
| 23:49:29 | kergoth | brett: lol.. i'm not a fan of reading other people's code, but damnit I want this buildsystem to work properly for everything i need it for damnit :-) |
| 23:49:35 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:49:35 | kendrick2 | runs |
| 23:49:41 | kergoth | s/for damnit/for/ |
| 23:49:41 | brett | wow |
| 23:49:46 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:49:51 | kergoth | growls |
| 23:50:07 | kergoth | i'd better confirm that the link succeeds w/o -lc, brb |
| 23:51:43 | kergoth | nope, was wrong |
| 23:51:45 | kergoth | that didnt help |
| 23:51:47 | kergoth | hmm |
| 23:52:20 | brett | aww |
| 23:52:28 | brett | same error? |
| 23:52:32 | kergoth | yep |
| 23:52:32 | kergoth | hmm |
| 23:54:22 | brett | hang on... |
| 23:55:12 | brett | -L/home/arm/tmp/buildroot-oz/root/lib |
| 23:55:21 | brett | If you remove that last -L it links |
| 23:55:31 | kergoth | er |
| 23:55:33 | kergoth | wtf |
| 23:55:34 | brett | no |
| 23:55:43 | kergoth | that last -L is the dir where the arm libc resides |
| 23:55:45 | brett | -L/home/arm/tmp/buildroot-oz/root/usr/lib |
| 23:55:50 | brett | That one |
| 23:55:51 | kergoth | hmm |
| 23:55:58 | kergoth | why would that cause it to use /lib/libc.so.6 |
| 23:56:00 | kergoth | is confused |
| 23:56:04 | brett | yeah, you'd think |
| 23:56:25 | kergoth | hah |
| 23:56:27 | kergoth | lol |
| 23:56:35 | kergoth | /usr/lib/libc.so = a ascii text file |
| 23:56:47 | kergoth | which happens to point to /lib/libc.so.6 and /usr/lib/libc_nonshared.a |
| 23:56:48 | kergoth | :-) |
| 23:56:53 | kergoth | mystery solved. thanks brett |
| 23:56:57 | brett | w00t, np |
| 23:57:20 | brett | you're quick. I should've figured it out before I pasted that original. Would've made me look smarter. :) |
| 23:57:42 | kergoth | hah |
| 23:58:22 | kergoth | FINALLY adds ncurses to his list of functional .mks |
| 23:58:24 | kergoth | :-) |
| 23:58:33 | brett | woohoo |
| 23:59:54 | brett | Man. Unix is too hard. We should be using wince on this thing. |
