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| 00:57.51 | Mr_Rabies | i like how the adventures went back from MGSV-style missons to Peace Walker style ones, what a strange choice |
| 01:01.32 | znf | I'm really concerned with the drop-rates for this expansion's food |
| 01:01.32 | Mr_Rabies | https://youtu.be/3a1LgglzUVI?t=970 there's an outer ops battle from peace walker, for reference |
| 01:22.49 | nebula | auto chess is likely the original idea |
| 01:35.28 | Elmoe | nevcairiel: hmm yeah thats odd to revert as that was a fix for certain boss encounters where boss frames would disappear mid-encounter like in Antorus when certain boss units become active/inactive |
| 01:35.52 | Elmoe | I think it was Antoran High Command that needed that |
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| 01:38.25 | nebula | there are a bunch of fights that use it |
| 01:38.51 | nebula | i assumed they just rolled it into unitexists |
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| 08:28.13 | bluspacecow | https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/curseforge-transfer-marking-projects-as-abandoned/748695 |
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| 08:46.42 | foxlit | Every time I think they're being particularly stupid, they manage to top it. |
| 08:48.13 | AcidWeb | Well that happens when you don't know what you doing. |
| 08:49.10 | foxlit | (1) It's a google docs form. Asking for PI. (2) There's zero authentication beyond asking for an email address? (3) No, we still can't tell you what the "account information" you're "consenting" to the transfer of is. |
| 08:55.22 | foxlit | also, that abandoned message is a nice touch. Guess they didn't have a "we shamelessly stole this project and are now distributing it without a license" option. |
| 08:58.52 | AcidWeb | After few last months of interaction with OW I have feeling they don't understand what they bought, theirs buisness model is flawed and they inventing the plan on the fly. |
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| 11:13.30 | Funkeh` | foxlit: except that's the exact opposite of what's happening? If you didn't consent, it's marked as abandoned i.e. no longer published. What were you expecting to happen? |
| 11:15.21 | foxlit | I expected some variant of this to happen. |
| 11:15.38 | Funkeh` | what is "this" because what you've described above is wrong |
| 11:16.15 | foxlit | Them to continue squatting on project names and assets despite not having permission to do so. |
| 11:16.53 | Funkeh` | Except they aren't, that's not how the abandoned flag works |
| 11:18.13 | foxlit | Do they have permission to continue distributing my stuff? |
| 11:18.36 | Funkeh` | They aren't distributing anything, it's gone from public view, only you can see it when something is abandoned |
| 11:19.01 | foxlit | what do you mean "gone from public view"? |
| 11:19.15 | foxlit | The project page is still available. The downloads are still available. |
| 11:19.30 | foxlit | I'm not logged in. |
| 11:19.35 | foxlit | Because I don't have an account. |
| 11:19.56 | Funkeh` | That's more likely to do with their fucked up caching |
| 11:20.08 | foxlit | They cached a |
| 11:20.12 | foxlit | "this project is abandoned" message? |
| 11:20.19 | Funkeh` | https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/search?search=simulationcraft |
| 11:20.25 | foxlit | That, according to you, shouldn't have been shown to anyone but the project author? |
| 11:20.25 | Funkeh` | gone from search |
| 11:21.47 | Funkeh` | https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons gone from the top list where I believe it was |
| 11:22.26 | nevcairiel | abandoned projects go into a transition period and are eventually hidden entirely |
| 11:23.00 | Funkeh` | Previously abandoned projects were used for projects not updated in a very long time, they are just re-using the flag for this |
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| 11:24.11 | nevcairiel | they are certainly not stealing your project and continously advertising with it. which they probably even could. when you upload to a site like that, you give them distribution rights, and unless specifically withdrawn, they can continue to distribute it |
| 11:24.26 | foxlit | I never uploaded it to their site. |
| 11:24.31 | foxlit | Twitch's permissions die with twitch. |
| 11:24.43 | nevcairiel | doubtful thats now that works |
| 11:24.52 | nevcairiel | how* |
| 11:25.23 | Funkeh` | I'll never understand the moral grandstanding of people thinking Twitch, owned by Amazon, was somehow better than this |
| 11:26.02 | foxlit | "This behavior is terrible" "BUT TWITCH!" |
| 11:26.12 | Funkeh` | Let me know when overwolf treat their employees as slaves |
| 11:27.00 | Funkeh` | or this weird assumption that somehow Twitch wasn't collecting any data |
| 11:29.41 | foxlit | which nobody here was making? |
| 11:30.13 | Funkeh` | maybe not directly in this channel |
| 11:30.46 | Funkeh` | but if you think this transition is somehow a downgrade, I'd like to see the logic |
| 11:31.25 | Funkeh` | point out any issues you have, sure, mock them, sure, but if you think Twitch was better it would be interesting to see why |
| 11:31.55 | foxlit | I make no comparisons to twitch. |
| 11:32.01 | nevcairiel | i dont even know what behavior is supposed to be so terrible, that they are asking you before taking your personal information? that they are then delisting projects that did not transfer? is it that they didnt just flat out delete everything right away? I'm still pretty sure that when they purchased CF they also got the distribution licenses granted to them by the authors, thats usually how this works |
| 11:33.20 | foxlit | nevcairiel: I'm annoyed that they don't explain what the information they seek consent to transfer is. I'm annoyed that the transfer was opt-out rather than opt-in. I'm annoyed by this "strip attribution and continue serving content" plan. I'm annoyed that there's a "this project is abandoned" message instead of "we've locked the project maintainer out until they've consented to something" message. |
| 11:33.39 | nevcairiel | Did you ask them? |
| 11:33.41 | nevcairiel | or just complaining? |
| 11:34.04 | foxlit | I asked twitch what PII they hold. |
| 11:34.12 | Funkeh` | This opt out thing has me confused. Mine was opt in and it clearly was for many many people. Was it based on EU or something? |
| 11:34.58 | nevcairiel | definitely was opt-in, how else would random projects end up delisted without the authors wanting that |
| 11:35.07 | Funkeh` | yeah |
| 11:35.16 | foxlit | I'm in the EU; I explicitly had to opt-out. |
| 11:36.47 | Funkeh` | but thanks to GDPR you can email their dedicated address and ask for your info |
| 11:36.49 | pnorman | ugh, I wonder if I have PII too since I used to have an addon way back in WotLK |
| 11:36.59 | foxlit | whose deicated address, Funkeh? |
| 11:37.21 | Funkeh` | whatever is listed in the privacy policy, I've not looked it up, but it's a requirement |
| 11:37.27 | foxlit | whos privacy policy? |
| 11:38.15 | Funkeh` | If you scroll to the bottom of curseforge and click privacy policy, it takes you to Twitch, so I assume Twitch |
| 11:38.33 | foxlit | I actually did that. They're taking their sweet 30 days. |
| 11:39.29 | Funkeh` | privacy@twitch.tv for anyone interested |
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| 14:34.28 | Funkeh` | "Update regarding authors that did not consent to the transfer (Forge_User<numbers>) " |
| 14:34.35 | Funkeh` | "After the migration (Dec. 3rd), you will be able to login in the website with your Twitch credentials and retrieve your account and affiliated projects by giving your consent." |
| 14:34.42 | Funkeh` | better than a google doc |
| 14:35.07 | foxlit | better than a google doc indeed. |
| 14:36.44 | foxlit | but it would be even better if they actually informed you about what you're consenting to. |
| 14:38.14 | foxlit | and didn't hold your projects hostage. I mean, "create me a new account with the old account's permissions" is an obvious option here. |
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| 15:05.43 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:07.27 | foxlit | is it a tickle? is it ETERNAL DEATH? Only one way to find out, because the tooltips sure don't think you need to know. |
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| 15:33.23 | znf | Petition to apply a 24 hour "Deserter" buff to all the tanks that queue for the first boss and then leave HC dungeons |
| 15:37.20 | znf | ...or at least move the Legendaries to the last boss. |
| 15:38.20 | AcidWeb | I rather see a buff to drop for them. |
| 15:38.33 | AcidWeb | Hunters in my guild need to make 25-50 runs to get it. |
| 15:41.27 | nevcairiel | as if DPSers dont do the same shit znf :P |
| 15:42.45 | znf | nevcairiel, we get 10min queue... |
| 15:42.47 | znf | you guys get instant |
| 15:42.54 | nevcairiel | so? |
| 15:43.19 | znf | so if I leave, I get penalized by having to wait 10+ minutes |
| 15:43.28 | znf | you can just requeue instantly and go back to the action |
| 15:43.41 | nevcairiel | isnt there a short deserter buff? |
| 15:43.55 | znf | if you leave after 1st boss? |
| 15:44.04 | znf | I don't think so, unless they changed it in the last 2 patches? |
| 15:57.40 | Chipzz | Crosshash: got more work for you :) |
| 15:59.14 | Chipzz | Crosshash: http://chipzz.safehex.be/tooltip/ ; that's with all addons disabled |
| 16:00.35 | Chipzz | uhm |
| 16:00.36 | nevcairiel | all those screenshots show addons |
| 16:00.41 | Chipzz | wrong screenshots |
| 16:00.45 | Chipzz | my bad, lemme fix :P |
| 16:01.01 | Stanzilla | also no description on what the issue is |
| 16:01.40 | Chipzz | refresh and look at the ther 3 files |
| 16:02.41 | Chipzz | Stanzilla: http://chipzz.safehex.be/tooltip/WoWScrnShot_112820_222508.jpg |
| 16:02.47 | Chipzz | pretty self-explanatory |
| 16:03.21 | Stanzilla | if you want someone to actually care about your bug reports, you need to make it as easy as possible for them |
| 16:03.45 | Chipzz | Stanzilla: how is that nogt as easy as possible? |
| 16:03.54 | Chipzz | it includes a framestack... |
| 16:04.47 | Chipzz | if it's not clear, the problem is the conduit interface obscures the tooltip on the bag item |
| 16:05.06 | Chipzz | basically the tooltip is in the wrong strate |
| 16:05.09 | Chipzz | *strata |
| 16:05.13 | Stanzilla | and that is the actual issue? that is is behind the other window? |
| 16:05.19 | Chipzz | or the conduit interface |
| 16:05.22 | Chipzz | yes |
| 16:05.32 | Stanzilla | see. I had to guess that, so there is that |
| 16:05.54 | Chipzz | honestly, if you'ld bothered to look at the framestack window it would have been clear to you |
| 16:05.59 | Chipzz | $10 says you didn't bother |
| 16:06.21 | Stanzilla | you don't get it but good luck with that |
| 16:06.36 | Chipzz | there's a --> pointing at the ContainerFrame3Item ... |
| 16:07.36 | Sharparam | fwiw Chipzz i can't even view those screenshots because your site is stuck in the 90s and doesn't have https |
| 16:08.48 | Chipzz | site is shared hosting among friends; not responsible for the webserver config myself |
| 16:09.16 | Sharparam | (also it's only a matter of time before major web browsers block http by default) |
| 16:10.20 | Chipzz | pretty sure http support is never going to be removed completely |
| 16:10.45 | Chipzz | and disabling http is a choice you made yourself, so that's up to you |
| 16:11.03 | Sharparam | it's currently opt-in yes, but iirc mozilla has plans to make it the default |
| 16:11.31 | Chipzz | either way these screenshots were not intended for you anyway, and I know Crosshash can see them, so no offense, but *shrug* |
| 16:11.55 | znf | Chipzz, maybe you can fix your gamma... |
| 16:12.13 | Sharparam | anyway was a bit of a sidebar, because if i were to get sent http links as part of a bug report i'd think twice about viewing them when i can't verify the site they're on is giving me the correct content |
| 16:13.12 | Chipzz | Sharparam: honestly I'ld be much more concerned of something plain-text, like the HTML or CSS getting MITM'd rather than binary content like images |
| 16:13.57 | Sharparam | who's to say the MITM person doesn't replace the image link with an HTML response :-) |
| 16:14.18 | znf | yup |
| 16:14.24 | znf | just because it ends in .jpg, it doesn't mean it has to be a binary |
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| 16:15.29 | znf | also, if you're going to have a web server listen on 443, might as well fix the ssl cert |
| 16:15.49 | Chipzz | znf: yeah and you would also have the manipulated the headers |
| 16:16.07 | Chipzz | 17:08 < Chipzz> site is shared hosting among friends; not responsible for the webserver config myself |
| 16:16.17 | Chipzz | I don't even have root access on the server |
| 16:16.18 | znf | your friend uses LE already |
| 16:16.43 | Chipzz | sth sth control-panel sth sth not easy to integrate dunno |
| 16:17.05 | Chipzz | that's the "answer" I got from him |
| 16:17.13 | Sharparam | i shy away from hosters who try to strong-arm you into using their paid ssl solutions instead of just letting you use LE |
| 16:18.25 | znf | which are those? |
| 16:18.30 | znf | cPanel is by far the most popular platform |
| 16:18.35 | Chipzz | Crosshash: 2nd issue (I have not confirmed this yet without addons, will do at a later point): http://chipzz.safehex.be/garisson_report.jpeg -> the Garisson (as in WoD garisson) Report shows the renown etc buttons |
| 16:18.38 | znf | and they've been offering free certs for years |
| 16:18.44 | Chipzz | znf: homebrewn stuff |
| 16:18.58 | znf | *yawn* |
| 16:19.05 | znf | there's like a dozens free panel that work fine with LE |
| 16:19.57 | Chipzz | the control panel isn't just for SSL; also does other things like DNS, mail, databases etc |
| 16:21.19 | znf | yes, so do others... |
| 16:21.47 | znf | TinyCP, CyberPanel, VestaCP, Centos Web Panel, ispCP (ew) |
| 16:21.58 | znf | Can't recommend TinyCP enough |
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| 16:40.08 | znf | if this doesn't work either, I'll rage https://i.imgur.com/2o5xVrq.png |
| 16:42.05 | Crosshash | Why, how many times have you tried it? |
| 16:42.14 | znf | 5-6 times already? |
| 16:43.21 | Crosshash | And you've never completed it? |
| 16:43.51 | znf | nope |
| 16:44.02 | nevcairiel | he is just throwing his troops against the wall instead of leveling them some more |
| 16:44.09 | znf | They're level 17! |
| 16:44.15 | znf | the mission is level 12, wth man? |
| 16:45.26 | foxlit | this is all explained clearly as mud in that ui, but don't you want more soulcasters? |
| 16:46.09 | znf | and put them where? I tried with them in front, they got slaughtered |
| 16:46.14 | foxlit | iirc the enemy ability is something like "deal terrible damage to things in melee range (wtf is melee range, but probably the troops with the sword?)" |
| 16:46.31 | znf | melee range is first row, I believe |
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| 16:48.44 | foxlit | it's also kind of meh that everything is communicated via icons and tooltips -- its basically impossible to interpret the screenshot without already having seen that mission and that convenant |
| 16:49.44 | znf | I think the whole approach is terible |
| 16:50.15 | znf | there's a reason I don't play hearthstone... |
| 16:50.47 | foxlit | in hearthstone, you at least understand what is going to happen in the next turn. |
| 16:51.31 | znf | true |
| 16:54.56 | znf | It makes me feel powerless about the whole setup, to be honest. I only got a say in which position which troops go |
| 16:55.26 | Mr_Rabies | even that is a bit iffy since i've had units in the back get smoked before units in the front |
| 16:55.40 | znf | I can't make decisions on which target they attack during the fight itself, I can't use abilities when I want them to use |
| 16:56.20 | znf | it feels bad to just watch the play go by, being powerless about it |
| 16:56.58 | znf | So I'm left with just hitting skip to the end, not knowing what happens anyway, because I'm not going to sit there watching for 1+ minute not being able to do anything |
| 16:57.49 | foxlit | (and you need the patience of a saint to figure out what's going from that combat log, because by Fordring does it spam text at you) |
| 16:58.26 | znf | true |
| 16:58.35 | nevcairiel | watching it in realtime instead of trying to read the log is pretty ok |
| 16:59.57 | znf | I'd very much like a % of chance being shown |
| 17:00.09 | znf | "yeah, your setup is shit, you have a 10% chance of winning this" |
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| 17:00.26 | foxlit | I think that's only ever going to show 0 or 100 |
| 17:01.02 | znf | better than "guess what these icons do" |
| 17:01.12 | nevcairiel | thats what tooltips are for, duh :p |
| 17:01.37 | foxlit | did you see my "deals stacking damage" screenshot? |
| 17:01.40 | znf | now I'm actually curious if you do the same mission twice, with the same formation, you get the same result (number wise) |
| 17:01.57 | nevcairiel | the actual number isnt really the impactful to your decisions |
| 17:02.09 | nevcairiel | until you have more heroes, there isnt that much to decide anyway |
| 17:02.11 | znf | actually, that can't happen, as your troops would level, I think they get XP even if you loe |
| 17:02.13 | foxlit | like hell? If it's 1 damage, I don't care. If it's 100 damage, I'm dead. |
| 17:02.32 | nevcairiel | 100 damage isnt that much in this thing |
| 17:02.41 | foxlit | insert appropriate numbers. |
| 17:02.42 | Yuyuli | i hate the adventure ui |
| 17:02.46 | Yuyuli | like who asked for this mini game bs |
| 17:02.54 | nevcairiel | you dont have to do it |
| 17:02.56 | Yuyuli | the UX is also utter shit |
| 17:03.00 | nevcairiel | it has no tangible impact on your gameplay |
| 17:03.03 | znf | But I don't know if I have to or not to do it |
| 17:03.15 | znf | because I literally have no idea what the next step of the campaign could be |
| 17:03.18 | znf | what if there's epics there? |
| 17:04.34 | znf | what if we get missions that grant Soul Ash? that'd be pretty big.. |
| 17:04.46 | foxlit | you do get missions that grant soul ash. |
| 17:05.03 | znf | then that makes it mandatory :P |
| 17:05.10 | nevcairiel | a hundred ash here or there have no significant impact on the long term progression |
| 17:05.35 | foxlit | I don't think "impact on long term progression" is a useful metric |
| 17:05.52 | nevcairiel | its the only metric that matters |
| 17:06.03 | foxlit | in the long term, none of this matters, because there's going to be another expansion. |
| 17:06.06 | nevcairiel | people spout "mandatory" about all kinds of nonsense |
| 17:06.19 | nevcairiel | it give me 5 copper, i must do this!!!111 |
| 17:06.25 | foxlit | engage with the best possible formulation of every argument |
| 17:07.36 | foxlit | not that one that's easiest to !!!111! |
| 17:08.39 | foxlit | I mean, the clear feedback here is "I have no sense of agency in this system, and yet it provides rewards I want, causing frustration" |
| 17:08.57 | znf | yup |
| 17:09.32 | nevcairiel | maybe people should learn to express themselves instead of talking in memes |
| 17:09.51 | nevcairiel | i'm sure developers would appreciate that |
| 17:10.12 | znf | "system bad, poor experience, delete this" is simpler to articulate |
| 17:10.15 | Yuyuli | i never liked the mission stuff, i really don't understand why they keep adding this every expac now, they also seem to go out of their way to revamp it everytime, and somehow make it even worse |
| 17:10.35 | nevcairiel | I think the new system is far more engaging and enjoyable |
| 17:10.48 | znf | I think it's far more frustrating because of what foxlit said |
| 17:10.56 | nevcairiel | the legion and BfA systems had absolutely zero depth at all |
| 17:11.13 | nevcairiel | and I actually manage to complete my missions, so no idea wtf you are doing |
| 17:11.23 | znf | And this has depth... how? you place the troops in some order, without knowing you have a chance or not |
| 17:11.28 | znf | No clear indication if you're going to succeed or not |
| 17:12.33 | foxlit | I like that there's subtly more to this than "click button, get loot", but I don't like that like 20 levels in, I still have no idea how anything works |
| 17:13.03 | foxlit | I mean, I drag random things into random places and the missions complete, but it's not because of any sort of strategic insight on my part. |
| 17:13.53 | nevcairiel | I do place them strategically, melees in the front row, my hero with a furthest-enemey ability in such a way that it takes out the enemy healer or range if one is in there, etc |
| 17:14.04 | foxlit | what are you calling melees? |
| 17:15.05 | foxlit | NF has troops with a hunter icon and with a healer icon. |
| 17:15.18 | znf | I have a Sword and a Bow |
| 17:15.22 | nevcairiel | my NF has troops with a melee icon and a healer icon |
| 17:15.23 | znf | I got a 2nd companion as a healer |
| 17:15.26 | nevcairiel | and I have a hero with a hunter icon |
| 17:15.47 | znf | my first companion was sword-lady |
| 17:16.14 | nevcairiel | the sword-icon troops have more life then the other troop |
| 17:16.21 | nevcairiel | even more then my range hero |
| 17:16.27 | nevcairiel | so they get in front to tank |
| 17:16.42 | znf | yeah, but my hero is melee, so I have to put him there, too |
| 17:17.16 | znf | and I only have 2 slots in the back, so I either have to run without my companion healer, or have only 1 ranged troop |
| 17:17.30 | znf | the melee ones have weak damage |
| 17:17.43 | foxlit | hm, I'm mistaken about the icons. There is a sword; dunno why I thought it was hunter. |
| 17:19.43 | znf | and I'm over here like "you guys get healer troops?!" |
| 17:19.44 | znf | :-/ |
| 17:20.32 | nevcairiel | https://i.imgur.com/BC7bD0e.jpg this is my typical setup plus a hero (those are on missions right now), i'll swap the two slots around depending on where i want my range hero to shoot, or leave out the healer troop for the second hero if i'm doing a 1000xp one |
| 17:20.33 | foxlit | We do get healer troops. |
| 17:20.50 | znf | :( |
| 17:20.57 | nevcairiel | do note that the healer has one heal ability on a 6 round cooldown, and is otherwise just a range dps |
| 17:21.18 | znf | my ranged has a self-heal, that's it |
| 17:21.26 | nevcairiel | oh it improved, its two rounds now, mustve changed when it leveled |
| 17:21.30 | znf | https://i.imgur.com/ZPu3sWg.png |
| 17:21.57 | nevcairiel | that is some low life, but i guess the self-heal helps to offset that |
| 17:22.24 | znf | https://i.imgur.com/x9H3rgV.png |
| 17:22.41 | znf | Double HP, but less than half attack |
| 17:23.31 | znf | I'm sure I'm still going to fail the mission, as Nadjia will probably die first |
| 17:25.11 | foxlit | I've just been using (enemy health)/(my attack) - (my health)/(enemy attack) as a heuristic |
| 17:25.41 | nevcairiel | thats basically what i do |
| 17:25.41 | foxlit | Also, put the follower with the aoe buff in the center and surround it with sword troops. |
| 17:26.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Ammako (~Ammako@gateway/tor-sasl/ammako) |
| 17:27.04 | nevcairiel | maybe they broke something for other covenants, but my missions have mostly gone as expected based on such a heuristic |
| 17:29.51 | foxlit | Typically massive overkill on this end |
| 17:30.19 | nevcairiel | I expect it to get more interesting as we get more heroes, i thnk someone said there is a total of 16 for each player, some covenantn specific, some generic |
| 17:32.45 | nevcairiel | I only hope they wont all start at level 1 since them dragging down troops is my only real complaint with the system so far |
| 17:34.16 | znf | I'm a bit annoyed by the level of the troops when you get a new champion tough |
| 17:34.21 | znf | that just feels bad |
| 17:35.34 | znf | if I get a new champion now, my understanding is that the tropps will go down to... |
| 17:35.52 | znf | (18+17+1)/3 = 6 ? |
| 17:36.22 | nevcairiel | not sure you can math |
| 17:36.33 | znf | oh |
| 17:36.34 | znf | right |
| 17:36.37 | nevcairiel | if anythign that would be 12 |
| 17:36.40 | znf | 12 |
| 17:36.44 | znf | still feels bad though |
| 17:36.46 | nevcairiel | but thats what I just said above |
| 17:37.02 | nevcairiel | incidentlaly my troops currently being level 10 seems to not impact their success much |
| 17:37.14 | nevcairiel | i only got my throgast follower on like sunday |
| 17:37.15 | znf | if they really want to do the average thing, they should, maybe, just take into account your 2 highest heroes |
| 17:39.51 | nevcairiel | it might be your top 2 follower |
| 17:39.54 | nevcairiel | we wouldnt know :P |
| 17:40.06 | znf | anyway, as you, I've done the same logical thing from the start |
| 17:40.15 | znf | put melee in front, ranged in the back, the first time I tried this |
| 17:40.22 | znf | when that failed, I looked at the levels, as foxlit said |
| 17:40.26 | znf | did it again, failed again |
| 17:40.27 | nevcairiel | the big difference is that my hero is in back |
| 17:40.46 | znf | yeah, but mine is melee, so I can't really put it in the back :D |
| 17:40.47 | nevcairiel | she doesnt get attacked instantly |
| 17:40.55 | nevcairiel | well did you try anyway? :P |
| 17:42.18 | znf | well, my last few attempts were with 2 champions |
| 17:42.35 | znf | because I got the 2nd and he's a healer, so logical thing -> healer, they survive |
| 17:42.45 | nevcairiel | my second champion is still like level 6, so i've only send her on leveling missions |
| 17:43.23 | znf | mine was just 2 levels behind (still above 12) last time I tried |
| 17:44.01 | znf | either way, we'll find out in 3 hours |
| 17:46.43 | nevcairiel | my only guess at that point would be that maybe something isnt right with venthyr heroes or troops |
| 17:46.56 | nevcairiel | did you try giving them an extra bag of blood for the way |
| 17:48.23 | Crosshash | Why wouldn't you put your melee hero in the back? |
| 17:50.10 | znf | because the ability tooltip says "Nadjia strikes the closest enemy twice"? |
| 17:50.44 | znf | and if I put it in the back, it seems to suggest that I'm attacking the ones in the back? |
| 17:50.49 | nevcairiel | even if you stand a kilometer away, you have a closest enemy? :) |
| 17:50.49 | Crosshash | I see there is some confusion here |
| 17:51.07 | nevcairiel | try placing it, you see which enemy it targets |
| 17:51.13 | nevcairiel | you get instant feedback :d |
| 17:51.18 | Chipzz | Crosshash: because it doesn't make much sense in that melee traditionally means "short attack range" |
| 17:52.10 | znf | also, because I would prefer my RANGED troops to be in the back, with their puny HP, not getting hit by the ones in front? |
| 17:52.20 | Crosshash | But it doesn't say "melee", it says "closest enemy". |
| 17:52.32 | Chipzz | 18:48 <@Crosshash> Why wouldn't you put your melee hero in the back? |
| 17:52.40 | Chipzz | you said "melee"? |
| 17:52.46 | znf | I see a sword and a bow, for me that's melee and ranged? |
| 17:52.58 | Crosshash | He used the word "melee" |
| 17:53.13 | Crosshash | I was using the same terminology to refer to his hero |
| 17:54.55 | Chipzz | Crosshash: either way, were the screenshots I pasted earlier enough information, or do you need more clarification? |
| 17:55.07 | Crosshash | Did you confirm the 2nd one? |
| 17:55.14 | Chipzz | not yet |
| 17:55.19 | Chipzz | but you took note of the first one? |
| 17:55.29 | Crosshash | Yeah, thanks |
| 17:55.42 | Chipzz | will try to confirm the 2nd one later |
| 17:56.26 | Chipzz | the first one occurs on the quest were you get the first 3 (for druid, maybe it's 2 for other classes?) conduits |
| 17:56.36 | nevcairiel | a far more annoying bug, which i'm sure you are tracking already, the loot popup window in dungeons in the center of the screen errors out when a conduit drops |
| 17:56.39 | znf | Crosshash, I'm having an weird issue with a [@targettarget] macro with a Shadow Priest ability, should I bug you? :) |
| 17:56.47 | znf | nevcairiel, oh, thank fuck, thought it was just my UI |
| 17:57.23 | Crosshash | So for that mission, znf, you might be doing it wrong by using ranged. Because you're splitting damage to both front row and back row of enemy. |
| 17:57.36 | znf | :-/ |
| 17:58.07 | Crosshash | You should set it up to try to kill 1 enemy asap |
| 17:58.53 | Crosshash | I think if you use all melees in the back row, they will attack front row left enemy, just like most of your front row |
| 17:59.07 | nevcairiel | when you place a dued you see which tiles it'll attack, too |
| 17:59.43 | foxlit | Isn't that more like which tiles their ability covers? |
| 17:59.55 | Chipzz | Crosshash: but regardless, I think the mission UI is unclear and could use a tutorial that explains better |
| 17:59.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar (~semlar@097-101-240-077.res.spectrum.com) |
| 18:00.18 | foxlit | iirc the sword troops just highlight every enemy, because that debuff hits everything |
| 18:00.38 | Crosshash | Yes for specials. For the auto-attack, sword icon is closest enemy, bow icon is furthest enemy. |
| 18:00.42 | Chipzz | you having to explain this to us here makes that clear I think; you shouldn't have to spend your time on this ;) |
| 18:02.07 | Chipzz | Crosshash: akso, feature request: put the research progress in the "Garisson" Report |
| 18:02.24 | Chipzz | class hall and legion mission table had that |
| 18:02.55 | nevcairiel | feature requests for wod expansion features? wouldnt hold my breath for a priority assignment :D |
| 18:02.59 | Chipzz | then again SL research is only 1h so far, so maybe that's why it was left out? |
| 18:03.24 | Chipzz | nevcairiel: no, for the current "Garisson", whatever the current iteration is called now :) |
| 18:03.24 | Crosshash | I'll mention it |
| 18:03.30 | nevcairiel | oh |
| 18:03.39 | Chipzz | Crosshash: but very low prio request IMO |
| 18:08.48 | Yuyuli | crosshash can you please find me the emitter sound of blanchy D: the id yesterday you gave me is for the mount up sound |
| 18:09.02 | Crosshash | I'll try |
| 18:09.56 | Yuyuli | i just have no idea how to find it, as it's some weird visual effect around the mount that probably emits the sound and not the mount itself |
| 18:12.03 | Chipzz | znf: one skill I have recently relearned to appreciate is flap |
| 18:12.16 | Chipzz | pretty useful now we're back to no-flying |
| 18:13.15 | znf | Crosshash, so not sure where to report this -- I'm having an issue with a Shadow Priest ability and [target=targettarget] macros; Specifically, we get a passive "Dark Thoughts" that allows us to cast a free Mind Blast during channeling of Mind Flay/Mind Sear. Mind Sear can be channeled on friends -- I sometimes just cast it on the tank. Whenever I get a free Mind Blast, [target=targettarget] breaks the channeling of Mind Sear. This works just fine if I |
| 18:13.15 | znf | channel Mind Sear on an enemy target. |
| 18:13.20 | Chipzz | it's a skill that's easily overlooked since it's not a damage skill, but in zones like Revendreth it can save quite a bit of time waiting for elevators |
| 18:13.23 | znf | Chipzz, I'm not a druid, I'm an engineer |
| 18:13.29 | znf | and I'm a priest, I can levitate :P |
| 18:13.51 | Chipzz | ah was it nevcairiel who plays druid then? |
| 18:14.28 | znf | yeah |
| 18:14.53 | znf | I got all excited earlier, a "rare" dropped [Regurgitated Kyrian Wings] |
| 18:15.07 | znf | thinking we're getting a new toy that launches us in the air, but nope... consumed on use :( |
| 18:15.25 | Crosshash | I'll ask QA to look into that macro issue |
| 18:15.31 | znf | Thank you |
| 18:18.15 | Yuyuli | My i also request looking into the Rogue talent Premeditation? It sometimes will not reward slice and dice. |
| 18:18.48 | Yuyuli | ^^ |
| 18:18.51 | Crosshash | That's a rogue thing. 10% of the time their abilities should just fail, like Vanish. |
| 18:19.00 | znf | I feel like 10% is being generous |
| 18:19.57 | Yuyuli | don't make my angry! the amount of times vanish has been utterly broken in wow is astounding : |
| 18:20.27 | foxlit | speaking of WoD features, https://www.townlong-yak.com/globe/wut/#q:GarrisonMissionFrame_SelectTab |
| 18:21.07 | foxlit | I'm honored FrameXML depends on Master Plan, but maybe it's time to let go :) |
| 18:21.41 | Chipzz | foxlit: Master Plan is yours? |
| 18:21.43 | Crosshash | Wait, what? |
| 18:22.47 | Funkeh` | Is it not more likely that you were overwriting a Blizz function that Blizz then later removed but didn't themselves remove a reference to it? |
| 18:23.50 | foxlit | I am, of course, having a bit of fun with that phrasing. |
| 18:24.13 | foxlit | The actual explanation is something else, but maybe fix the FrameXML call-to-nowhere anyway. |
| 18:25.00 | Funkeh` | :D |
| 18:25.41 | Chipzz | foxlit: FWIW, that url of yours doesn't show any code (for me), is that intentional? |
| 18:26.02 | Chipzz | it shows file and lineno |
| 18:26.04 | Funkeh` | click the line number next to UIParent |
| 18:26.19 | foxlit | Yes. FrameXML line numbers link to the framexml archive, but for everything else you're on your own. |
| 18:26.30 | Chipzz | right, I would have expected the relevant code to be shown inline |
| 18:26.34 | foxlit | Hovering over the addon name should tell you the version |
| 18:26.52 | Chipzz | but maybe that's just wrong expectations |
| 18:27.04 | Funkeh` | you mean you're not storing every addon's lua file so we can click line numbers of addons? pfft |
| 18:28.50 | Chipzz | anyway MasterPlan ironically is an addon I was about to look at |
| 18:29.00 | Chipzz | first because it errors atm |
| 18:29.13 | Chipzz | and 2nd because it can show the garrison report |
| 18:29.26 | Chipzz | which I need to do without having that addon loaded :P |
| 18:29.51 | foxlit | ShowSomethingSomethingLanding(garrTypeID) |
| 18:30.14 | znf | I'm surprised you still have them active |
| 18:30.20 | foxlit | ShowGarrisonLandingPage(garrTypeID) |
| 18:34.51 | Chipzz | Crosshash: can't repro 2nd issue with all addons disabled |
| 18:34.59 | Chipzz | foxlit: yeah found it in the meanwhile |
| 18:35.18 | Chipzz | strange thing is, 2 is gariison (why not 1?), 3 is class hall |
| 18:35.30 | Chipzz | but I don't know what the numbers are for mission table and the current one |
| 18:36.02 | Chipzz | foxlit: is Master Plan yours? |
| 18:36.32 | foxlit | yes. |
| 18:36.45 | foxlit | I'm also more widely known as Forge_User_16328612. |
| 18:37.08 | Chipzz | foxlit: I suspect master plan is causing the above issue |
| 18:37.36 | Chipzz | http://chipzz.safehex.be/garisson_report.jpeg |
| 18:37.37 | foxlit | "above" is a bit vague, but it probably is causing something. |
| 18:37.48 | znf | nice guy that Forge_User_16328612 |
| 18:37.57 | Chipzz | also I'm getting errors with matsr plan in the stack trace :P |
| 18:38.20 | Chipzz | foxlit: it's eithe master plan or the other addon I have installed, need to confitm |
| 18:38.24 | Chipzz | *confirm |
| 18:39.15 | nevcairiel | Chipzz: garrison ids https://i.imgur.com/6epmd9Q.jpg |
| 18:39.24 | Chipzz | foxlit: but master plan /does/ mess with the garisson report page... |
| 18:39.41 | nevcairiel | better to use the actual enum values :d |
| 18:39.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (Funkeh`@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 18:39.49 | Chipzz | nevcairiel: nice thx! :) |
| 18:39.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (~Fisker-@185.109.90.37) |
| 18:40.02 | foxlit | they've changed IDs all of zero times. |
| 18:40.28 | nevcairiel | sure |
| 18:40.34 | Chipzz | foxlit: it's either master plan or ordehallcommander, let me check |
| 18:40.35 | nevcairiel | but why not use a descriptive name instead of a magic number? |
| 18:41.16 | foxlit | meanwhile enum schemes have changed twice. |
| 18:45.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~umsin@2600:1700:aac0:82e0:ed57:97c2:de29:c1ab) |
| 18:45.30 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 18:45.51 | Chipzz | Crosshash: actually it looks like I can repor with all addons disabled; /run ShowGarrisonLandingPage(111); ShowGarrisonLandingPage(3) |
| 18:46.21 | Chipzz | foxlit: looks like MP is off the hook for that after all :) |
| 18:46.34 | Chipzz | but I still get a different master plan related error |
| 18:47.39 | znf | I'm still wondering why the hell are you doing Garrison missions in 2020 |
| 18:47.47 | Chipzz | foxlit: and when I try to repro it doesn't happen anymore off course |
| 18:48.02 | Chipzz | znf: not garisson, but order hall |
| 18:48.07 | Chipzz | znf: for marks of honor |
| 18:48.18 | Chipzz | and pet battle tokens |
| 18:48.45 | nevcairiel | running random lua commands is somewhat similar to running an addon, if it doesnt happen with buttons the default UI offers, is it really an issue? :d |
| 18:49.10 | Chipzz | although by now I've done bought all of the available pets |
| 18:49.33 | Chipzz | znf: but the marks of honor you can use to buy profession recipes; so completionist stuff |
| 18:49.36 | znf | oook |
| 18:50.30 | Chipzz | you can buy BfA recipes with them so until recently that made sense you know? |
| 18:50.59 | znf | uh, I just do BGs if I need those |
| 18:51.13 | Chipzz | me personally I hate PvP |
| 18:51.17 | Chipzz | so I stay out of BGs |
| 18:51.28 | Crosshash | Yeah, are you getting that through normal play? |
| 18:52.32 | Chipzz | Crosshash: not through normal play; but Master Plan adds a right-click menu on the garisson minimap button which enables access to the garisson report |
| 18:52.58 | Chipzz | I would argue Master Plan doesn't cause the bug, but it allows it to be visible though |
| 18:53.36 | Chipzz | it's still a bug in Blizzard code though IMO |
| 18:53.51 | Chipzz | except of course if you consider the garisson report to be deprecated? |
| 18:56.41 | nevcairiel | do you get the report if you actually visit the old garrison and click the button there? |
| 18:57.26 | Chipzz | haven't checked; I thought which button it showed depended on your level not the zone, but I may be incorrect |
| 18:57.34 | Chipzz | let me check that |
| 18:58.33 | Crosshash | I think you can only see the report for your highest garrison, which for normal people right now is Shadowlands. |
| 18:58.41 | Crosshash | You're forcing an older garrison into the report. |
| 18:59.19 | foxlit | nah, UIParent can do that too. |
| 18:59.38 | foxlit | find an old garrison item and right click. |
| 19:00.00 | Crosshash | Like what kind of item? |
| 19:00.07 | foxlit | ends up about here: https://www.townlong-yak.com/framexml/live/UIParent.lua#1291 |
| 19:01.17 | foxlit | follower equipment upgraders, ship equipment, champion equipment, that kind of thing. |
| 19:03.45 | Chipzz | Crosshash: steps to repro: click the garisson minimap button, close it, then click https://www.wowhead.com/item=118354/follower-retraining-certificate, click o[n the left-most tab |
| 19:04.39 | Crosshash | Thanks |
| 19:04.47 | Chipzz | no addons, no /run involved |
| 19:04.56 | Chipzz | purely clicking on stuff |
| 19:05.46 | Chipzz | also when clicking on the left-most tab it automatically changed back to the 2nd tab |
| 19:10.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@217-209-12-6-no170.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 19:20.09 | Chipzz | are people selling dungeon/ torghat runs in the group finder reportable or not? |
| 19:22.52 | znf | I report anyone who sells shit in group finder |
| 19:23.24 | nevcairiel | advertising in the groupfinder is forbidden now, selling in general is fine as long as its for ingame goods and not real money |
| 19:23.26 | Chipzz | right, just reported at least 5 or 6 |
| 19:34.49 | znf | uh, wtf? https://i.imgur.com/fpVjl72.png |
| 19:36.47 | znf | my corpse was there, but it disappeared when I approached |
| 19:36.49 | znf | now I can't rez? |
| 19:37.14 | nevcairiel | someone ated it |
| 19:37.53 | Crosshash | Those darn Forsaken! |
| 19:38.14 | znf | but I am forsaken :( |
| 19:38.27 | znf | weird, a relog fixxed it |
| 19:38.39 | pnorman | Someone wanted your bones for soup? |
| 19:39.51 | znf | Stanzilla, [21:38:18] WeakAuras: There are 1 updates to your auras ready to be installed! -- where do I delete this? |
| 19:41.43 | nevcairiel | stop using an updater with WA integration |
| 19:42.01 | znf | I /once/ used the WA updater? |
| 19:42.13 | znf | that was back in 8.2 :D |
| 19:44.07 | znf | meh, I'll just delete the auras, they were for 8.2 anyway |
| 19:47.14 | znf | seriously |
| 19:47.28 | znf | fuck that guy who made the PvP quests and placed them 600 yards away from the fucking graveyard |
| 19:47.35 | znf | I don't mind the PvP quests, but 600 yards? really? |
| 19:53.42 | DiscordB | <Stanzilla> just update the aura |
| 19:54.13 | znf | It doesn't work, else I would have updated it back in 8.2 |
| 19:55.24 | foxlit | a feature only useful for one week: it'd be neat if the adventure guide showed your mythic lockouts |
| 19:57.40 | znf | this is the most frustrating quest I've ever done this expansion |
| 19:58.13 | foxlit | suggestion: leave them be and do the xp/anima missions |
| 19:58.18 | nevcairiel | i think EJ shows lockouts, if you set it to mythic difficulty it showed a red X on the bosses i was locked on earlier |
| 19:59.05 | foxlit | that it does, but then you have to check 8 things |
| 19:59.22 | nevcairiel | raid panel and calendar show lockouts as well |
| 19:59.57 | foxlit | it's not that you can't find that information, it's that every existing location is kind of meh |
| 20:00.28 | foxlit | (like not fitting everything within the allocated vertical space, requiring you to scroll) |
| 20:10.26 | foxlit | I'd also like something to tell me which instance to run to maximize the probability of getting gear upgrades |
| 20:10.43 | nevcairiel | all of them |
| 20:10.43 | nevcairiel | :D |
| 20:10.57 | nevcairiel | thats certainly in addon territory there tho |
| 20:11.06 | znf | I can't believe how much annoyed I get by this quest... |
| 20:32.40 | *** join/#wowuidev greedom (~greedom@i5E86B3DF.versanet.de) |
| 20:42.45 | Ammako | am I missing something, or is there a reason why I can't use this? https://i.imgur.com/Ncl2WiP.png |
| 20:42.49 | Ammako | just says "You can't use that item" |
| 20:49.26 | znf | you got 3/3 already? |
| 20:50.20 | Ammako | it's a new account, I got barely any pets |
| 20:51.14 | znf | lol 3rd comment https://classic.wowhead.com/item=8490/cat-carrier-siamese#comments:id=3028475 |
| 20:51.22 | znf | ah, I hit classic |
| 20:51.42 | Chipzz | Crosshash: can you pretty please add an option to the group finder so that once a certain part of group compo is full-filled peopke are no longer able to apply? |
| 20:51.45 | znf | since when do they have "from allakhazam" and "from thottbot" labels? |
| 20:51.50 | Chipzz | the world is full of snowflakes |
| 20:52.07 | znf | that would be a massive QoL |
| 20:52.19 | Chipzz | I have 3 DPS, my group desc says "No more DPS", I''ve had about 30 DPS applications who think that does not apply to them |
| 20:53.03 | znf | reading is hard |
| 20:54.24 | Chipzz | Crosshash: I don't care if these DPS do a gazillion gazillion trillion DPS, I still don't want them |
| 20:55.01 | znf | moment of truth with the campaign mission |
| 20:55.16 | znf | https://i.imgur.com/Az6kusB.png |
| 20:55.29 | znf | oh look, I won |
| 20:57.29 | Chipzz | putting "NO DPS wanted" in the title instead of the description helped it looks |
| 20:57.40 | Chipzz | no more DPS applications |
| 20:58.19 | znf | what are you even making a group for...? |
| 20:58.48 | nevcairiel | i would assume a dungeon, its the only thing right now you need a proper composition for |
| 20:59.23 | znf | yes, but at this point, it's Chipzz, so I'm still not sure! |
| 20:59.42 | foxlit | "that's perfect, cause I deal NO DPS" |
| 20:59.57 | Chipzz | znf: Torghast? |
| 21:00.05 | znf | oh, what |
| 21:00.13 | Chipzz | I solo'd layer 1 & 2 |
| 21:00.17 | Chipzz | layer 3 was too hard |
| 21:00.22 | znf | I'd just go to 3 directly |
| 21:00.36 | znf | still, a full-group sounds like overkill :D |
| 21:00.39 | nevcairiel | i heard thorgast actually gets harder if you pack more people currently |
| 21:00.56 | nevcairiel | unless you are a particularly weak solo class |
| 21:02.24 | znf | he's a druid |
| 21:03.26 | Chipzz | znf: how far did you get into Torghast solo then? |
| 21:03.42 | nevcairiel | 3 solo was absolutely no issue for me bearing it up |
| 21:04.07 | Chipzz | 2 solo was doable for me with ilvl 146 equipped |
| 21:04.09 | nevcairiel | even with like 140 gear earlerier last week |
| 21:04.16 | znf | Chipzz, I cleared everything solo |
| 21:04.19 | znf | I never went in there with a group |
| 21:04.35 | nevcairiel | the most i was is with 2 people, didnt do a bigger group yet |
| 21:04.43 | Chipzz | layer 3 was several elites in first room that I couldn't solo pull |
| 21:06.15 | Chipzz | actuallY I did manage after 4 deaths, but then I died the floor after |
| 21:06.23 | Chipzz | might have been bad RNG, or good RNG for you |
| 21:06.41 | znf | are you not using anima powers? I really don't understand how you could not kill them |
| 21:06.57 | nevcairiel | i didnt only do one run, some were worse then others, but as bear there is rarely anything i cant just wear down if i must |
| 21:07.02 | Chipzz | yes I am using anima powers |
| 21:07.13 | Chipzz | but like I said, first room was hard, and first anima was crap |
| 21:07.28 | znf | I'm not trying to be a dick, but I really don't understand how people can have an issues this early on with any layer |
| 21:07.44 | Chipzz | like I said, I didn't have issue with layer 1/2 |
| 21:07.54 | nevcairiel | its not like access to thorgast costs anything, if the first room is horrible just restart it for a new roll :D |
| 21:08.28 | Chipzz | true, but I didn't feel much like banging my head against it |
| 21:08.35 | Mr_Rabies | i had a really awful layer 3 with synod at the end |
| 21:08.42 | Mr_Rabies | at least i got to meet the terragrue |
| 21:08.43 | Mr_Rabies | :( |
| 21:09.09 | Mr_Rabies | my other layer 3 was mostly just awful trap hell, took me 79 minutes lol |
| 21:09.20 | Chipzz | nevcairiel: but maybe I should try going bear indeed |
| 21:09.42 | znf | nevcairiel, actually you get the same one? :D |
| 21:09.46 | Chipzz | went balance for my tries |
| 21:10.03 | znf | I know I tried to restart it, and it was the same every time |
| 21:10.05 | znf | even the same power |
| 21:10.29 | Mr_Rabies | tbh i felt like layer 3 was intentionally super hard to teach the stuff they're gonna add later, and i hope layer 4 isn't a step up from that because even the easiest one was pretty rough at 40 minutes lol |
| 21:10.40 | nevcairiel | i've certainly reset it before, but i didnt run in and out immediately |
| 21:10.44 | nevcairiel | maybe it was enough time |
| 21:11.05 | nevcairiel | (i was fixing a minimap addon) |
| 21:11.17 | znf | did you clear it? |
| 21:11.21 | znf | the first room? |
| 21:11.22 | nevcairiel | no |
| 21:11.36 | znf | weird then, I went in a few times because I didn't like my first available power |
| 21:11.41 | znf | but I kept getting the same one |
| 21:11.51 | znf | I even went to the /other/ layer |
| 21:11.53 | znf | and I got the same |
| 21:11.58 | znf | then I went to floor 2 and 1 |
| 21:12.00 | znf | same power choice |
| 21:12.15 | nevcairiel | maybe they have some protections so you dont try to cheese it like that |
| 21:12.25 | znf | probably |
| 21:12.26 | nevcairiel | i probably took a while until i did it due to coding |
| 21:12.32 | Chipzz | but either way, if I want 1/1/3, people shouldn't be able to apply as 4th dps |
| 21:12.45 | Chipzz | and what I'm running really is not relevant to that |
| 21:13.02 | Chipzz | what's relevant is my desired group compo |
| 21:14.49 | znf | you're exaggerating a bit imho :) |
| 21:14.53 | znf | with a full-group |
| 21:17.44 | Chipzz | znf: it really doesn't mater what you think IMO |
| 21:17.46 | Chipzz | no offense meant |
| 21:17.56 | Chipzz | 22:13 < Chipzz> what's relevant is my desired group compo |
| 21:20.34 | Chipzz | znf: the same applies for M+ dungeons |
| 21:32.51 | znf | Thorgast is not meant to impose limits on your group comp. |
| 21:33.06 | znf | Thus, they didn't feel the need to implement group comp restrictions on it |
| 21:33.08 | znf | So, tough luck. |
| 21:33.40 | Mr_Rabies | i wonder if it scales like horrific visions where tanks/healers cause less of a mob hp increase vs. dps |
| 21:34.06 | znf | Probably |
| 21:34.14 | znf | actually |
| 21:34.15 | znf | I doubt it |
| 21:34.20 | Yuyuli | im not a fan of the bosses in torg |
| 21:34.41 | Yuyuli | why they they need pvp scaling, and why do they have this weird stacking buff that ups their damage |
| 21:34.47 | Yuyuli | torg doesn't even reward gear |
| 21:35.17 | znf | pvp scaling? |
| 21:35.22 | Yuyuli | yeah if you stun |
| 21:35.25 | Yuyuli | it's not pve stun |
| 21:35.27 | Yuyuli | it's apvp stun |
| 21:35.28 | Yuyuli | dumb |
| 21:35.42 | Yuyuli | so if i blind, its 6 seconds |
| 21:35.47 | Yuyuli | on a 2 mind cd |
| 21:35.48 | Yuyuli | thanks |
| 21:36.25 | Yuyuli | the bosses just deal way too much damage |
| 21:36.29 | znf | you mean diminishign returns |
| 21:36.38 | Yuyuli | no |
| 21:36.43 | Yuyuli | blind only lasts 6 seconds |
| 21:36.46 | Yuyuli | instead of 60 seconds |
| 21:36.51 | Yuyuli | thats how blind works in pvp |
| 21:37.06 | znf | Psychic Scream lasts 8 seconds, full duration |
| 21:38.10 | znf | Mind Control also lasts it's full duration |
| 21:39.16 | znf | nevcairiel, would it be possible to add ticks to Fishing, at 12/7/2? |
| 21:39.45 | Yuyuli | i just feel like the way the bosses are currently tuned, is ridiculous for content that rewards no gear as the bosses are also random so some are harder than others |
| 21:39.47 | znf | in Quartz, sorry |
| 21:40.42 | Yuyuli | if they want ppl to actually run this, they need to retune them otherwise the less skilled ppl will burn out from this |
| 21:40.54 | Yuyuli | and just hate torg honestly |
| 21:40.56 | Mr_Rabies | so is curseforge.com still where the curseforge stuff is/is going to be website-wise? |
| 21:41.01 | Yuyuli | content for nobody xd |
| 21:41.22 | Yuyuli | do you think they will switch the domain? that has no benefit |
| 21:41.30 | Yuyuli | it will stay curseforge |
| 21:42.59 | Mr_Rabies | also, not sure if you fixed it or not but somehow the "hide target cast bar" setting in quartz defaulted to on for me, nevcairiel - i was going crazy trying to figure out which addon was hiding it, even with the showTargetCastbar cvar set to 1 |
| 21:43.24 | nevcairiel | of course its on by default, quartz has its own target cast bar :P |
| 21:44.32 | Mr_Rabies | but i had it disabled :O |
| 21:44.33 | nevcairiel | and torghast is hardly overtuned, i did layer 3 with practically leveling gear and not even sweating, nevermind now with dungeon gear. maybe some classes are a bit undertuned in survivablity and that is something that might be looked at |
| 21:44.42 | Mr_Rabies | (the quartz target castbar) |
| 21:45.08 | Mr_Rabies | i just logged in and couldn't see what anyone was casting, a few of my guildies had the same issue |
| 21:45.37 | Mr_Rabies | i know it's a weird edge case but i was going nuts trying to figure out what broke |
| 21:45.47 | znf | Yuyuli, or, you know, get good? |
| 21:46.05 | Mr_Rabies | torghast is just a roguelike, sometimes you get bad runs |
| 21:46.18 | Mr_Rabies | really the only issue is the lack of any reward whatsoever if you fail |
| 21:46.27 | Yuyuli | i mean even if you succeed |
| 21:46.31 | Yuyuli | what do you get? wow soulash |
| 21:46.37 | Mr_Rabies | yeah |
| 21:47.01 | znf | I mean, Soul Ash is literally one of the centerpiece of the expansion... |
| 21:47.21 | Yuyuli | except, it's for one piece of gear (currently) as you can only equip one legendary. |
| 21:47.28 | nevcairiel | its fine if you dont feel like you need/want to do that |
| 21:47.38 | Yuyuli | im sure as the expac goes on, you will be able to equip 2-3 but thats it |
| 21:47.43 | Yuyuli | not much soul ash you need in the long run |
| 21:47.43 | nevcairiel | if they put mroe rewards in people will just cry even more |
| 21:47.47 | Mr_Rabies | i understand tying it heavily to player power directly, it would be annoying bceause you'd have to farm it to max every time, but basically once you have a legendary it's super backburner and you can't skip layers or anything |
| 21:48.12 | znf | uh? |
| 21:48.13 | znf | you can |
| 21:48.28 | znf | you can just to the max layer you can, you get all the rewards from the lower ones |
| 21:48.40 | Mr_Rabies | yeah but to unlock that layer you have to do the one under it |
| 21:48.55 | Yuyuli | i don't find the unlocking an issue |
| 21:49.04 | Mr_Rabies | you can't go straight to layer 3 until you've cleared layer 2, and can't go to 2 unless you've cleared 3 |
| 21:49.08 | Mr_Rabies | er |
| 21:49.09 | Yuyuli | but 'all the rewards, are stilll going to be just.. all the soulash |
| 21:49.10 | Mr_Rabies | you can't go straight to layer 3 until you've cleared layer 2, and can't go to 2 unless you've cleared 1 |
| 21:49.29 | nevcairiel | _once_ |
| 21:49.30 | Mr_Rabies | oh interesting, i thought layer 4 would be available today, i guess not |
| 21:49.31 | znf | that's once |
| 21:49.41 | znf | then further weeks -- you get to pick up where you left |
| 21:50.04 | Mr_Rabies | still, would be nice to be able to just skip to the highest unlocked one if you dared |
| 21:50.18 | znf | ...that is how it works |
| 21:50.32 | Mr_Rabies | you can't just skip to 6 when it unlocks |
| 21:50.32 | nevcairiel | you can skip to the one you unlocked |
| 21:50.40 | Mr_Rabies | you have to go 1-2-3-4-5-6 at least once |
| 21:50.42 | nevcairiel | playing them all once is hardly a big ask |
| 21:50.43 | Yuyuli | it just makes me kinda sad, torg seems actually quite neat but in the long run it's entirely wasted on getting a currency. |
| 21:50.48 | nevcairiel | its a one-time thing |
| 21:50.52 | nevcairiel | dont even need to do it per-wing |
| 21:50.54 | znf | Yuyuli, you literally get Legendaries from it |
| 21:51.08 | Mr_Rabies | you get minor portions of legendaries from it* |
| 21:51.08 | znf | I'm not sure how much more power do you think they can put in, lol |
| 21:51.13 | Yuyuli | you get soul ash, a currency, to make you let you craft a legendary |
| 21:51.17 | Yuyuli | but you can only equip one legendary |
| 21:51.19 | Yuyuli | whats not to get |
| 21:51.30 | Yuyuli | you just upgrade your single legendary |
| 21:51.43 | nevcairiel | If you need content to have a reward to do it, maybe you are not actually in for this thing called "fun" ? :) |
| 21:51.46 | Yuyuli | if i don't raid, what now |
| 21:52.10 | Yuyuli | torg is not some nice alternative solo thing i can climb up |
| 21:52.20 | nevcairiel | its not meant to be |
| 21:52.27 | Yuyuli | but i want it to be. |
| 21:52.31 | nevcairiel | too bad |
| 21:53.01 | znf | If they'd put more rewards in there, people would cry even more |
| 21:53.16 | znf | this way, if you don't want to raid or you think you don't need a legendary, you don't take part in it |
| 21:53.19 | nevcairiel | "alternatives" dont work in a competitive game, because players will always do the one thats easiest |
| 21:53.20 | znf | also, keep in mind you get followers, too |
| 21:53.26 | znf | yup |
| 21:53.36 | nevcairiel | if they give torghast more rewards, they'll have to limit it strongly on how often you can run it and whatnot |
| 21:53.47 | znf | take away my +10% rewards and no pvp talents from War Mode, and I'm not ever turning that thing on in my life |
| 21:53.50 | Yuyuli | well there is already a limit |
| 21:53.52 | Yuyuli | once a week |
| 21:53.58 | znf | You get the reward once a week |
| 21:54.03 | nevcairiel | there is no, you can run it as many times as you want to |
| 21:54.04 | znf | You can run it a billion times if you want |
| 21:54.30 | znf | that already removes the pressure |
| 21:54.37 | znf | If you fail, that's ok, you can try again, maybe get a friend to help you |
| 21:55.24 | Mr_Rabies | problem is it takes so damn long |
| 21:55.34 | nevcairiel | it really doesnt |
| 21:55.46 | Mr_Rabies | 79 minutes for a layer 3 was pretty rough, and i failed one that took 53 minutes |
| 21:55.50 | nevcairiel | you either had a bad run or who knows what if you spend 79 minutes in one layer |
| 21:57.23 | znf | I spend 30-40 minutes in layer3 :D |
| 21:57.30 | znf | but that's because I mind controlled everything :D |
| 21:57.49 | Mr_Rabies | my quickest run in layer 3 so far is 39 minutes, and i skipped a good amount of stuff because it was elite pack hell |
| 21:57.55 | nevcairiel | I just do a straight forward run and with a bit of luck in the powers itll maybe be 15 minutes |
| 21:58.14 | znf | oh, I just clear everything |
| 21:58.18 | znf | I actually enjoy taking it slow |
| 21:58.54 | *** join/#wowuidev phyber (phyber@unaffiliated/phyber) |
| 21:58.59 | nevcairiel | last time i got that power where you cast a spell when you shapeshift, that was hilariously funny with basically permanent starfall and frenzy regen up |
| 21:59.17 | nevcairiel | i want that one mroe often |
| 22:01.22 | znf | Rogues should REALLY not be able to vanish in combat |
| 22:01.32 | znf | damn cowards in pvp |
| 22:01.45 | nevcairiel | thats all rogues can do |
| 22:02.09 | znf | as soon as they realize they're losing, they run away |
| 22:02.35 | znf | and Cloak should not remove my dots! |
| 22:02.47 | znf | they're /shadow/ dots :D |
| 22:19.42 | foxlit | What's a good way to check whether you're in the maw? |
| 22:20.11 | foxlit | (that preferably comes with "You are now in the maw" "You are no longer in the maw" events) |
| 22:22.55 | znf | whatever event makes the Eye show? |
| 22:22.57 | nevcairiel | track when the eye of the jailer widget comes in? |
| 22:22.59 | *** join/#wowuidev VIad (~Vlad@cm-84.213.147.218.getinternet.no) |
| 22:23.21 | foxlit | that's only max-level maw. |
| 22:23.32 | foxlit | (I think?) |
| 22:23.36 | znf | uh, I guess? |
| 22:23.37 | VIad | just check if you can mount or not :P |
| 22:23.45 | AcidWeb | widget is always there |
| 22:23.51 | AcidWeb | just hidden/without payload |
| 22:23.52 | nevcairiel | the other option would be map-based |
| 22:23.58 | AcidWeb | ^ |
| 22:24.16 | znf | that reminds me that I have to go to The Maw, too, today |
| 22:24.19 | znf | I hate that area so much |
| 22:24.45 | Yuyuli | there is a mount that can ride in the maw |
| 22:24.50 | VIad | I often use UnitPosition and read the arg4 if I only care about "is the player in this map" checks, must be better than several map API calls and table returns |
| 22:24.51 | Mr_Rabies | would be nice to be able to get a little stygia for each floor boss or something in torghast, with a maximum per week or something |
| 22:25.00 | Yuyuli | but it can not be obtained yet |
| 22:25.05 | znf | is there? |
| 22:25.06 | znf | which? |
| 22:25.24 | VIad | temporary bears if you kill a rider npc |
| 22:25.29 | Yuyuli | Mawsworn Soulhunter |
| 22:25.43 | VIad | 1 min buff at least mount accessible atm that is dunno about that mount |
| 22:26.09 | nevcairiel | there is two mounts, one from torghast which isnt obtainable yet, and one from a rare in the maw, not sure that one is available yet either or from one of the locked areas |
| 22:26.43 | znf | neat, still hate the area, not becasue of the no mounting to be honest |
| 22:26.45 | Yuyuli | i checked some old video and the maw one is not really a rare but a quest, but i guess the drop itself is a rare drop from the quest mob |
| 22:27.36 | nevcairiel | personally I really do like the maw, it has an actual feel of urgency when in there, a very target driven approach, do the thing and get out, it feels very different to everything else in the game |
| 22:28.07 | znf | That's what I don't like - the fact that it's pretty much "gated", do your shit, then quickly get out |
| 22:28.13 | Yuyuli | https://www.wowhead.com/npc=174861/gorged-shadehound |
| 22:28.17 | znf | if I'm on a task... I'd want to do that task for hours until I get sick of it :D |
| 22:28.43 | znf | I assume it's easier to prowl around as a druid |
| 22:29.11 | nevcairiel | prowl? nonsense, i just kill |
| 22:29.44 | znf | I just want to do the rares without having to fight trough 100 mobs to get to the point |
| 22:30.00 | nevcairiel | i just run to the rare and kill whatever didnt reset |
| 22:30.17 | nevcairiel | i like aoeing down mobs, its what I am good at :D |
| 22:31.06 | znf | yeah, but I can't :D |
| 22:31.11 | znf | everything hits me so hard on cloth |
| 22:31.16 | znf | the damage I'm taking is ridiculous |
| 22:31.21 | nevcairiel | venari sells that stealth potion you could use |
| 22:32.11 | znf | it has a 5min CD |
| 22:32.16 | znf | and you don't see the mobs around you |
| 22:32.28 | nevcairiel | i never tried it, it just sounded useful :D |
| 22:32.28 | znf | so when it expires, you might be in deeper shit :D |
| 22:32.36 | znf | been there, done that |
| 22:32.45 | znf | dropped stealth in the middle of 5 mobs |
| 22:33.06 | nevcairiel | i'll usually not be alone either, as a druid i can run at mount speed and take a second person, so there is a queue of guildies :p |
| 22:33.26 | znf | I tried to find random groups, but apparently there's a million of them with WM OFF |
| 22:33.32 | nevcairiel | (also questing with a tank is just easier for DPSers) |
| 22:33.33 | znf | but like none, or 1 full, with WM ON :D |
| 22:33.43 | Mr_Rabies | i wonder if anyone has made a "breadcrumb" addon for torghast yet |
| 22:33.54 | nevcairiel | breadcrumb how? |
| 22:34.00 | znf | ...or I get a spastic DH that I can't keep up with |
| 22:34.03 | Mr_Rabies | that fills in the map where you've been |
| 22:34.16 | znf | uh? |
| 22:34.47 | znf | no enemies = you've been there? :D |
| 22:34.54 | Mr_Rabies | not always true |
| 22:35.05 | nevcairiel | doesnt the discover state of the map reset, so you can go by that? |
| 22:35.52 | nevcairiel | but torghast has position info, so one could make such an addon |
| 22:35.57 | nevcairiel | not that I ever felt i had that problem |
| 22:36.21 | Mr_Rabies | i've gotten sorta lost in some of the trap-only floors |
| 22:36.26 | Mr_Rabies | with very few enemies |
| 22:36.40 | Mr_Rabies | and discovery also discovers nearby hallways if they're close enough |
| 22:37.31 | znf | they're pretty small to beed something like that, to be honest, but I get where you're coming from |
| 22:37.56 | znf | need* |
| 22:37.59 | nevcairiel | put down 3d raid markers :D |
| 22:38.08 | znf | need to be in a group :P |
| 22:38.23 | nevcairiel | dont those signed up things often count as a 1m group |
| 22:38.39 | znf | I don't recall being able to use that |
| 22:39.34 | Chipzz | AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGH |
| 22:39.41 | Chipzz | *cringe* |
| 22:39.49 | Chipzz | I'm in group with friend to queue for dungeons |
| 22:39.59 | Chipzz | at last a decetnconduit for my spec shows up |
| 22:40.02 | Chipzz | (on WQ) |
| 22:40.13 | Chipzz | friend leaves group, WQ vanishes into thin air |
| 22:40.26 | Chipzz | *poof* there goes my first good conduit :( |
| 22:40.47 | Chipzz | regrouping didn't help |
| 22:41.07 | znf | may I ask how old are you? |
| 22:41.31 | Chipzz | how is that relevant? |
| 22:41.34 | Mr_Rabies | phew that was a wild fracture chambers, not too hard until towards the end where that dude that pops in while you're out of combat is hella juiced |
| 22:41.50 | Chipzz | and how is what I said immature? |
| 22:41.50 | Mr_Rabies | dbm didn't tell me how long it was though :O |
| 22:42.22 | znf | Chipzz, on the opposite, it sounds you're very very casual, like, uber-casual, so I'm assuming something like 50+? |
| 22:42.24 | nevcairiel | the only quests that come and go are pvp quests, make sure you are not in oribos since they dont show in sanctuaries since you dont have warmode on there |
| 22:43.28 | znf | even then, the quests spawn/despawn at :00 |
| 22:44.10 | znf | what ever happened to quests that lasted 24 hours, back from Legion, either way? |
| 22:44.22 | znf | we had the same shit in BfA, WQs that spawned with timers less than 24h |
| 22:44.23 | nevcairiel | all the normal WQs last 24 hours? |
| 22:44.27 | Chipzz | I suspect problem was sharding |
| 22:44.32 | nevcairiel | only the pvp ones dont |
| 22:44.37 | Chipzz | not WQ expriring |
| 22:44.50 | nevcairiel | active WQs should be region wide |
| 22:44.52 | znf | ^ |
| 22:44.58 | znf | they are, unless bugged PvP quest |
| 22:45.17 | znf | oh, I went to that Fae area where they have shows/performances and what not |
| 22:45.24 | znf | I wanted to do the Tickets stuff |
| 22:45.33 | znf | "Item can not be used in War Mode" |
| 22:45.37 | znf | that was a first |
| 22:45.46 | nevcairiel | cant watch a show when trying to murder people |
| 22:46.09 | Chipzz | znf: not really casual, just shit RNG with conduits |
| 22:46.54 | Chipzz | znf: ALL of my main spec conduits have been greens, while ALL of my off-spec conduts have been rare |
| 22:46.59 | znf | I think by now I have most conduits, and the ones I use I actually have epics |
| 22:47.00 | Chipzz | that was the firs rare conduit for my main spec |
| 22:47.08 | Chipzz | druid has 4 specs |
| 22:47.12 | Chipzz | so more loot dilution |
| 22:47.51 | znf | I miss Cataclysm feral :( |
| 22:48.37 | Mr_Rabies | i miss MoP feral |
| 22:48.41 | Mr_Rabies | tbh it was at its best then |
| 22:48.44 | Mr_Rabies | but no one knew it |
| 22:48.54 | Mr_Rabies | no one knew the power of bloodtalons back then |
| 22:49.02 | Mr_Rabies | you could legit off heal while boosting your damage output |
| 22:49.14 | znf | I swear Ve'nari's voice actor is the same one that does Ana in Overwatch |
| 22:49.52 | znf | seems that I'm not the only one https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/k14vuf/is_it_just_me_or_is_the_voice_actor_of_venari_the/ |
| 22:50.49 | znf | Seems she is: https://www.instagram.com/p/CIL29E7BWKP/ |
| 22:57.59 | Mr_Rabies | i think lori alan does devos' voice, and we got her for our guild promo video lol |
| 22:58.14 | Mr_Rabies | also kristian nairn |
| 22:59.16 | Mr_Rabies | here it is, don't be too harsh on my video editing skills i am pretty new to it and also was exhausted while working on it https://youtu.be/ifx8yF6QSGA |
| 23:02.03 | znf | ah, crap |
| 23:02.09 | znf | you also lose Stygia in PvP combat... |
| 23:02.39 | Mr_Rabies | no wonder those horde were so salty yesterday |
| 23:02.41 | nevcairiel | very little tho |
| 23:03.10 | nevcairiel | pve deaths are much more loss |
| 23:03.12 | znf | yeah, still |
| 23:03.47 | znf | wish Mind Soothe worked on something else other than Humanoids and Dragonkins... |
| 23:04.08 | Mr_Rabies | druid soothe used to be the same thing but for beasts |
| 23:04.29 | foxlit | current soothe is best soothe! |
| 23:04.48 | foxlit | and if that wasn't enough, I can also Hibernate things. |
| 23:04.48 | Mr_Rabies | https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=9901/soothe-animal |
| 23:04.51 | Mr_Rabies | i mean i agree |
| 23:04.55 | Mr_Rabies | 100% |
| 23:05.04 | nevcairiel | reducing aggro range on a class that can also stealth is just questionable :D |
| 23:05.05 | Mr_Rabies | being able to dispel enrages is so much more useful lol |
| 23:05.18 | Mr_Rabies | it was nice in dungeons, but really rarely used |
| 23:05.25 | Mr_Rabies | mostly for quick maraudon runs |
| 23:05.58 | foxlit | and decurse |
| 23:06.07 | foxlit | without leaving bear form. |
| 23:06.17 | foxlit | This is like that druid commercial all over again |
| 23:06.27 | Mr_Rabies | wish i could brez from cat form again but apparently too powerful :( |
| 23:06.41 | Mr_Rabies | instead i just let the other druids do it, so no skin off my back |
| 23:06.52 | Mr_Rabies | but i used to be able to brez so fast the RL wouldn't even see the person dead lol |
| 23:06.54 | foxlit | bear CR needs rage. That... has stung me a few times. |
| 23:06.56 | znf | I mean, where was the last time I saw a Dragonkin this expansion... |
| 23:07.20 | Mr_Rabies | there's a few kicking around in ardenweald |
| 23:08.13 | foxlit | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kfr3602ANI << let's just pretend its 2007. |
| 23:09.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@217-209-12-6-no170.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 23:16.30 | znf | https://i.imgur.com/b5xcMtY.png |
| 23:16.31 | znf | oh... |
| 23:16.45 | znf | wonder what that is about :D |
| 23:16.53 | foxlit | raid marks, typically |
| 23:17.13 | foxlit | you can set about 10 before it throttles you. |
| 23:17.23 | znf | I don't have assist, so couldn't be |
| 23:20.33 | Mr_Rabies | i'm pretty confused, is curseforge.com like dead, and if so what's the equivalent web page for overwolf? because it says the most recently created addon is 4 days ago, and i know that can't really be true |
| 23:20.40 | nevcairiel | in 5m groups everyone can set icons |
| 23:21.06 | nevcairiel | and curseforge.com is being migrated to a new backend, hence data currently being frozen |
| 23:23.56 | Chipzz | znf: anyway, as far as your argument about group compo goes... the same problem exists for M+, are you going to say I should just go 5 DPS for M+ too? |
| 23:24.51 | Chipzz | znf: really, leaving aside whether or not your opinion about what I want as a group compo is objectively correct, you fail to see the issue |
| 23:25.27 | Chipzz | and the issue is, applicants should be forced to respect the group leaders desired compo, no matter how stupid you think that compo is |
| 23:25.30 | Chipzz | my group, my rules |
| 23:27.08 | znf | nevcairiel, I'm in a raid group :) |
| 23:27.53 | nevcairiel | dungeon groups actually have built-in role markers since the game knows you want a certain composition there |
| 23:28.02 | nevcairiel | the torghast group doesnt have that since its more freeform |
| 23:28.10 | nevcairiel | (in the group tool) |
| 23:28.34 | Chipzz | nevcairiel: again, for like the 3rd time already: mythic+ dungeon shave the same problem |
| 23:28.44 | Chipzz | you have 3 DPS, DPS keep applying |
| 23:28.55 | nevcairiel | and nothing can stop them from doing that |
| 23:29.14 | Chipzz | sth could |
| 23:29.34 | Chipzz | groups wth 3 DPSés shouldn't be shown to them in the search results |
| 23:29.46 | Chipzz | *DPS'es |
| 23:30.06 | Mr_Rabies | some people take the idea of "swing at every ball," even if they're playing basketball |
| 23:30.08 | nevcairiel | but I'm a druid and I can fill all roles, so I can still see your group |
| 23:30.29 | Chipzz | Mr_Rabies: and I want to block these asshats from doing that |
| 23:30.43 | Mr_Rabies | i don't really see the issue, just click decline |
| 23:31.12 | Chipzz | Mr_Rabies: the issue is I had like 50!!!! DPS applications in 5min while I already had 3 DPS |
| 23:31.16 | znf | Chipzz, no they do not |
| 23:31.22 | Mr_Rabies | that's 50 clicks in 5 minutes, not too bad |
| 23:32.07 | Chipzz | nevcairiel: the group finder could be modified to allow you to select a role to queue as |
| 23:32.21 | Chipzz | nevcairiel: just like LFD/LFR does |
| 23:32.31 | Mr_Rabies | LFD/LFR let you click all 3 if you want |
| 23:32.33 | Chipzz | s/queue/apply |
| 23:32.54 | Chipzz | yes, and if you click all 3 in GF, and I have 3 DPS, you'll show up as tank/ healer for me |
| 23:33.00 | Chipzz | and I can still accept you as a tank |
| 23:33.08 | Chipzz | this is not rocket science now, is it? :) |
| 23:33.43 | Mr_Rabies | guaranteed at that point you'll get folks queueing as heals but wanting to dps once they actually join because they couldn't find any groups queueing as dps lol |
| 23:33.51 | Chipzz | and those 50 applications were with the group description explicitely stating "DPS NOT WELCOME" |
| 23:34.00 | Chipzz | then you kick them |
| 23:34.14 | nevcairiel | but thats even more work then just ignoring them in the signup |
| 23:34.20 | znf | well, feels bad: https://i.imgur.com/Gh3WkfW.png |
| 23:34.26 | Chipzz | but at least it will block hunters, mages, warlocks and all pure classes |
| 23:36.21 | znf | Chipzz, you're making too much of a fuss about it |
| 23:36.40 | znf | Also, there's nothing stopping you from doing M+ with 5 Tanks, 5 DPS, 5 Healers |
| 23:36.55 | nevcairiel | 5 tanks might even work better :D |
| 23:37.00 | znf | Yup |
| 23:37.04 | znf | Altough I doubt you'll make the timer :D |
| 23:37.09 | Chipzz | znf: if you really want that, then make a group in custom |
| 23:37.27 | znf | again: what you're proposing requries way too many clicks |
| 23:37.43 | Chipzz | it does for the DPS applying |
| 23:37.47 | nevcairiel | specifically about torghast you cant really enforce anything, since its entirely freeform and any composition is the right one |
| 23:37.49 | Chipzz | but t saves me a lot of clicks |
| 23:37.51 | *** join/#wowuidev elvador (elvador@WoWUIDev/WowAce/Elvador) |
| 23:38.05 | znf | And doesn't account/breaks situations where I am queued as a Healer, but because I'm in the open world, waiting for the group to be filled up, I'm marked as a DPS |
| 23:38.20 | Chipzz | nevcairiel: so how come all groups I see in group finder for torghast request 1/1/3 |
| 23:38.28 | nevcairiel | because they are stupid |
| 23:38.30 | znf | ^ |
| 23:38.39 | nevcairiel | you can run it with whatever just fine |
| 23:39.51 | nevcairiel | its just safe and maybe also faster to run it with a normalized group, but its still perfectly doable with any other combination, or 2 players, or 3+ |
| 23:40.19 | Chipzz | znf: you can queue as healer for LFD just fine while doing WQs as DPS |
| 23:40.52 | znf | I wasn't talking about the automated queues |
| 23:41.03 | Chipzz | what's needed really only is the same for LFG as we have for LFD/ LFR: role selection widget at teh top of the window |
| 23:41.06 | znf | I was referring to player-made groups for Dungeons |
| 23:41.27 | Chipzz | yes, and I'm sayng, the same solution can be applied to LFD |
| 23:41.40 | Chipzz | or do you see a reason why it couldn't be? |
| 23:42.06 | znf | I'm saying that whatever solution you have in mind complicates things too much |
| 23:42.35 | znf | And doesn't account for all possible situations and would just impose silly limits on player-made groups |
| 23:42.52 | znf | You see a DPS applying and you don't want it? click X |
| 23:42.53 | Chipzz | first of: no I do not think it's too complex |
| 23:43.10 | Chipzz | second: if you want to go of the proven track of 1/1/3, then use custom groups |
| 23:43.10 | znf | And I don't think it's too complex to click on the X |
| 23:43.12 | znf | or just ignore |
| 23:43.26 | znf | You're being stubborn |
| 23:43.35 | nevcairiel | you entirely destroy visibility if you force it into custom |
| 23:43.39 | znf | Exactly |
| 23:43.58 | Chipzz | it's a dsadvantage to both the group leader and the applicant; group leader has to waste energy declining when the easy solution is to have to invest 0 energy |
| 23:44.04 | znf | It's not, really |
| 23:44.11 | znf | Ignore the people applying |
| 23:44.14 | Chipzz | and the applicant will just get declined everywhere |
| 23:44.16 | znf | They can only apply to 5 groups at a time |
| 23:44.20 | nevcairiel | i tend to just ignore the people instead of clicking |
| 23:44.21 | znf | That's their issue |
| 23:44.23 | znf | Same |
| 23:44.36 | znf | and if I recall corectly, new applicants are placed on top |
| 23:44.42 | nevcairiel | the icons are different enough to see the wanted roles even on a quick scroll through |
| 23:44.53 | Chipzz | I really see 0 advantages to how it is now and nothing but advantages to my propoosed solution, really |
| 23:44.54 | znf | so I don't care for the ones that are below the fold and I have to scroll down to |
| 23:45.06 | nevcairiel | because you are dismissing our arguments |
| 23:45.25 | Chipzz | because your arguments hold no water IMO |
| 23:45.25 | znf | 1: if you're doing Thorgast with a 1/1/3 comp, you're doing it wrong and gimping yourself, really |
| 23:45.40 | nevcairiel | forcing anyone that doesnt agree with your view of group composition, especially for torghast, into custom is a huge step back |
| 23:45.46 | Chipzz | znf: again, for ONLY the fourth time already: <+ |
| 23:45.49 | Chipzz | *M+ |
| 23:45.57 | Chipzz | same problem |
| 23:45.59 | znf | Thorgast is not fucking M+ |
| 23:46.09 | znf | And like we've said million times |
| 23:46.11 | Chipzz | and fucking M+ has the exact same fucking issue |
| 23:46.11 | znf | Ignore the people |
| 23:46.17 | znf | Just don't click anything |
| 23:46.23 | znf | they can only apply to 5 groups at a time anyway |
| 23:46.34 | Chipzz | why do you keep harping on torghast when the problem is NOT torghats but a general problem??? |
| 23:46.38 | znf | they'll either get bored or have to cancel |
| 23:46.48 | znf | because, I'll say it again |
| 23:47.11 | znf | I post a M+ group, I'm DPS currently, because I'm in the open world |
| 23:47.17 | nevcairiel | because you want to apply your "solution" to everything and it would affect non-standard content like torghast quite substantially |
| 23:47.20 | znf | I have 2 friends, that are also DPS, we need tank |
| 23:47.38 | znf | Group Comp in the LFG tool will look like 3xDPS |
| 23:47.49 | znf | But I'm actually healer... and I'm looking for a tank and a dps |
| 23:48.12 | foxlit | you could reasign your group role. |
| 23:48.19 | znf | I could |
| 23:48.22 | znf | but I'm lazy |
| 23:48.39 | znf | still, I don't mind seeing all people that apply |
| 23:48.49 | Chipzz | your laziness invalidates your argment |
| 23:48.51 | znf | They have a limit, it's not a "free" application, so to speak |
| 23:48.54 | znf | So does yours |
| 23:49.00 | Chipzz | I'm not lazy |
| 23:49.16 | znf | Yeah you are, you have an issue with 50+ people and you don't want to deny their application :D |
| 23:49.17 | foxlit | hey, quick, what words does this contain: #nounshift |
| 23:49.28 | znf | what |
| 23:49.30 | Chipzz | no un shift |
| 23:49.38 | foxlit | (vs noun shift) |
| 23:49.52 | znf | https://i.imgur.com/LC6EJRt.png |
| 23:49.57 | znf | what's with the tofu? |
| 23:50.17 | Chipzz | nevcairiel: and really, again, this can be fixed |
| 23:50.35 | Chipzz | add a dropdown to the LFG tool for teh leader which allows specifying a group compo |
| 23:50.50 | Chipzz | you could have preset in there and an option for custom |
| 23:50.53 | znf | No |
| 23:50.56 | Chipzz | yes |
| 23:51.06 | nevcairiel | luckily for us, it'll never be done anyway |
| 23:51.12 | nevcairiel | so your argument is invalid by default |
| 23:51.33 | Chipzz | your style of reasoning is impressively stupid |
| 23:51.40 | znf | For that to be useful, it would have to be literally free-form |
| 23:51.41 | nevcairiel | I try |
| 23:51.45 | Chipzz | "invalid by default".... |
| 23:51.51 | Mr_Rabies | just put one of these signs out, Chipzz http://i.easel.blolol.com/dpskeepout_ef052c7e.png (apologies for the terrible image editing, i sort of lost photoshop after a format, and krita is a lot of relearning) |
| 23:52.04 | Chipzz | and you were using the word "dismissive" earlier? |
| 23:52.49 | Chipzz | Mr_Rabies: the irony is I did that, I literally specified "NO DPS" in the group description, still got 50 applicants... |
| 23:53.44 | Mr_Rabies | that blurred sign on the window said something similar to "DPS NOT WELCOME" but i was far too lazy to try to edit that too, so i just blurred it |
| 23:53.45 | Chipzz | "He wrote 'NO DPS' but I'm gonna try anyway" |
| 23:53.54 | nevcairiel | people dont read descriptions, put it into the title |
| 23:54.08 | Chipzz | nevcairiel: that is indeed when it stopped |
| 23:54.49 | Mr_Rabies | literally no one reads descriptions other than me it seems, and half the people applying don't know english in my battlegroup, so no matter what i put they're gonna be there |
| 23:54.56 | Mr_Rabies | but i just decline them, no biggie |
| 23:55.40 | Mr_Rabies | "NO DPS" and seeing 4 hunters queue as a group is maximum comedy, though |
| 23:56.06 | foxlit | in unrelated news, had a 5-druid run of De Other Side today. |
| 23:56.12 | nevcairiel | Ultimately what else is the title for anyway, for M+ the dungeon you are running is specified elsewhere, so put the level and the required players into the title so people get all info on the first view |
| 23:56.15 | foxlit | smooth! |
| 23:56.18 | Chipzz | znf, nevcairiel: the worst part of this discussion is that you're arging for a problem that only affects a very minute portion of the population |
| 23:56.18 | Mr_Rabies | random or organized, foxlit |
| 23:56.26 | znf | Chipzz, I'd argue the same |
| 23:56.29 | znf | it affects only you so far |
| 23:56.32 | Chipzz | ppl running M+ with 5 tanks is not sth that's viable throughout most of the expansion |
| 23:56.33 | foxlit | mythic pugs. |
| 23:56.48 | Mr_Rabies | gotcha, i always wondered if the group finder would slap 5 druids together |
| 23:57.00 | nevcairiel | group finder doesnt care |
| 23:57.08 | nevcairiel | its just a low chance |
| 23:57.11 | Mr_Rabies | i just don't pug anymore, unless it's my guild pugging to fill a raid or whatever |
| 23:57.18 | Mr_Rabies | so i have no clue how most of the pug stuff works |
| 23:57.22 | znf | as long as the role gets filled, classes don't matter |
| 23:57.51 | znf | (for the LFG/LFR tools) |
| 23:57.52 | Chipzz | znf: pray tell, how many M+ groups with 5 DPS or 5 tanks have you done? really? |
| 23:58.11 | znf | ? |
| 23:58.16 | znf | who said I did? |
| 23:58.33 | foxlit | I ran all 8 mythics in pugs this week; it went fine. |
| 23:58.36 | nevcairiel | we've certainly done runs with 2 tanks or such |
| 23:58.41 | Chipzz | I was the only one complaining (whch I doubt) about the problem |
| 23:58.42 | nevcairiel | not necessarily 5 tanks |
| 23:58.46 | nevcairiel | but same concept applies |
| 23:58.54 | Chipzz | I would argue you are the only one running M+ with 5 tanks |
| 23:59.00 | Chipzz | so, how many times have you done this? |
| 23:59.17 | Chipzz | how many times have you ran M+ with 5 DPS? |
| 23:59.55 | nevcairiel | we've done a bunch of low keys without healers farming for specific things in leigon though |
