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| 16:23.19 | p3lim | "Overwolf, the leading open platform for game apps and services" |
| 16:23.41 | p3lim | I've never head of them/it, apparently purchased CurseForge |
| 16:24.07 | nevcairiel | I only know them from that teamspeak overlay they did, that tells you who is talking |
| 16:24.10 | AcidWeb | They have bloatware/overlay software. |
| 16:24.45 | Chipzz | "leading" is a word every company uses to describe itself :P |
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| 16:26.21 | Chipzz | bullshit self-promotion, but then again everyone does it :) |
| 16:27.01 | Chipzz | "Gotta look impressive to potential clients" :P |
| 16:27.25 | p3lim | "CurseForge will transition out of the Twitch client and into a new dedicated desktop app on Overwolf" |
| 16:27.34 | p3lim | not sure if that's a win or not :P |
| 16:27.52 | Chipzz | maybe they will actually care about bugs now? :P |
| 16:27.55 | p3lim | but we'll see |
| 16:35.51 | foxlit | alternative headline: amazon finally fired everyone. |
| 16:40.54 | Funkeh` | Good thing they spent all this time integrating into Twitch as much as possible just to undo it all |
| 16:41.39 | p3lim | I still can't access the profile settings on curseforge.com, haven't been able to since before Twitch |
| 16:41.50 | p3lim | Maybe with Overwolf they'll fix that |
| 16:42.27 | nevcairiel | more likely they'll break a bunch of accounts again de-linking from the auth system :D |
| 16:43.48 | Cairenn1 | Or, ya know, everyone can just stick with the same crew that's been running things since 2002. Same people then, same people now. |
| 16:44.53 | foxlit | same website bugs, too. |
| 16:45.06 | Funkeh` | Lol what? How do we choose who runs it |
| 16:45.16 | Cairenn1 | I was talking about us |
| 16:46.14 | Funkeh` | WoWI has been stagnant for years, and somehow every time there's CurseForge drama, WoWI is never in a good potiion to appeal as the better product. Still not even a funcitoning updater |
| 16:49.02 | nevcairiel | Yeah its a shame a working updater never came together. That was the weakest point on CF for the past time, but nothing but third-party replacements that pulled stuff inofficially from CF and/or WoWI. |
| 16:50.28 | Cairenn1 | it's funny the number of people that use Minion just fine, but hey, you guys are absolutely correct, we suck in every possible way - goes back to other conversations |
| 16:52.11 | Funkeh` | It took you like 6 months just tom have a funcitoning system that separates retail from classic, some of my classic variants are still not on WoWI because they didn't need updated since classic launch |
| 16:52.57 | Funkeh` | And it's still half implemented, e.g. the changelog only showing the last uploaded file, that being classic or otherwise |
| 16:54.25 | AcidWeb | And minion still not support new "double" classic/retail projects. |
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| 19:28.58 | znf | Last time I tried Minion, many years ago, it screwed all my add-ons |
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| 20:11.27 | Kemayo | Admittedly, slowly migrating to github and the bigwigs packager for things does mean I'm more site-agnostic these days. But yeah, the updater situation is what matters to me as well. |
| 20:13.34 | nevcairiel | And, frankly, Curseforge is paying out a lot of money to the developer community. I'm not one to "sell out", but as long as they don't do any bad shenangians with our addons, it does certainly make me resistant to a bit of rough terrain. |
| 20:13.47 | Funkeh` | Indeed, the packager rids the author of having to worry about end points, which was a big advantage that Curse had and now doesn't, and there's no problem expanding it. So we're not some WoWI haters or anything. |
| 20:14.10 | Kemayo | True, the bit where I'm making money does help. ð |
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| 20:17.07 | nevcairiel | (and Overwolf claims to increase the reward program by 50% by 2022, so ... we'll see how that goes) |
| 20:17.41 | Funkeh` | more ads inc |
| 20:17.56 | nebula | they did say that was what they were doing :p |
| 20:18.40 | Funkeh` | did i miss this announcement |
| 20:18.50 | Funkeh` | all ive seen is the email |
| 20:19.19 | nebula | https://medium.com/overwolf-developers/a-new-home-for-curseforge-44cbb3add844 |
| 20:19.25 | nevcairiel | they put up this e ntire site with links to various pieces https://curseforge.overwolf.com/ |
| 20:19.25 | nebula | https://trello.com/b/Slaz6xBq/curseforge-roadmap |
| 20:20.08 | nevcairiel | reddit AMA tomorow, and they invited a few high profile authors to a call on wednesday |
| 20:20.20 | nevcairiel | to ask questions and give feedback |
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| 21:51.48 | znf | nevcairiel: aren't you high profile?! |
| 21:52.12 | nevcairiel | did I say I did not get invited? :P |
| 21:53.16 | znf | Oh! |
| 22:06.43 | foxlit | It's midly annoying that it's all advertising money. |
| 22:11.17 | foxlit | (I wish this ecosystem could thrive without ad-ridden websites, software, and in-game overlays.) |
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| 22:19.44 | nevcairiel | Unfortunately an alternate revenue stream for addons has yet to be discovered. We can't sell them, users won't donate, so they get to see ads or pay to not see them |
| 22:24.30 | foxlit | Watching people throw money at twitch streamers makes me think that second part isn't quite accurate. |
| 22:26.09 | Funkeh` | You cannot compare them whatsoever. The Twitch experience is completely integrated, and in some ways, competetive, when it comes to paying |
| 22:26.25 | Funkeh` | Let us do the same for addons in game and sure people will start donating |
| 22:27.07 | nebula | time to start an onlyfans |
| 22:27.17 | Mr_Rabies | casually update to adding a link your onlyfans account that is just addon tutorials |
| 22:27.18 | Mr_Rabies | ff |
| 22:27.23 | Mr_Rabies | beat me to it |
| 22:27.31 | Funkeh` | Until then no one is going to click your paypal link on curse (which they don't event see on the updater client) no matter how big you make the button |
| 22:27.56 | foxlit | I don't think the donate-to-individual-addons model is reasonable to begin with. |
| 22:29.15 | foxlit | (just because minimum_viable_payment_amount * number_of_installed_addons adds up to silly numbers.) |
| 22:29.31 | Mr_Rabies | i hate to say it but it's clear blizzard intervenes when folks are making money using their stuff nowadays, even if it's not particularly aggressive |
| 22:30.53 | Mr_Rabies | gold sellers -> wow token, ask mr robot -> remove reforging, raidbots -> purchasable BIS corruptions |
| 22:31.33 | Mr_Rabies | overall they really want to be the only ones making money from wow, and they definitely don't want "Addon Author" to ever make enough money to be worth the time |
| 22:32.27 | foxlit | What's probably more reasonable is paying x$/month for a service that provides you with an updater client that just updates stuff in the background, provides some minimal backup functionality, and distributes some share of that x$ to authors. |
| 22:32.52 | Mr_Rabies | but at the same time they can crib ideas from addons and implement them into the base game as a selling point, and so they need addon authors to stick around to some extent for now |
| 22:33.51 | Funkeh` | Ask Curse how succesfull Curse Premium was, since that's what you're describing |
| 22:34.55 | nevcairiel | wasnt it once said that author rewards are basically entirely out of premium earnings |
| 22:35.27 | Funkeh` | no clue |
| 22:37.52 | Mr_Rabies | blizzard should have taken a page out of the steam workshop years ago, tbh |
| 22:38.18 | nevcairiel | making a workshop where we dont get any money? =P |
| 22:38.49 | Mr_Rabies | vetted addon repository with ability to donate to authors, authors add financial deets and blizzard takes a small cut of each donation |
| 22:40.18 | Mr_Rabies | or something, i dunno |
| 22:40.40 | Mr_Rabies | if they thought there was money in it they would have claimed it for themselves long ago, is sorta what i'm getting at, i guess |
| 22:40.52 | nevcairiel | the problem is that this costs them money, and doing that after-the-fact adds very little value. It might be a good thing to promote mods for a new game, but the wow addon community is so established that doing it now, or anytime within the last 10 years, would just not have added anything of real value for them |
| 22:41.27 | nevcairiel | steam workshop doesnt directly make them money, only indirectly by making games more popular |
| 22:41.40 | Mr_Rabies | yeah i guess that's true |
| 22:41.49 | Mr_Rabies | i'm more likely to buy certain games if they have workshop support |
| 22:42.36 | Mr_Rabies | but wouldn't really apply to wow unless "workshop" addons could have additional functionality through rich presence stuff, maybe? it would have to be big enough to change the meta somehow i guess |
| 22:43.14 | Mr_Rabies | and i think they're really worried about changing wow too much at all at this point, better to let it slowly peter out and just make what they can from it in the meantime |
| 22:43.46 | Mr_Rabies | but no one's gonna pay any money to use addons, i don't think |
| 22:44.44 | Mr_Rabies | like even DBM couldn't charge and outside of professional raiders that get paid to raid no one would pay basically any amount of money to re-enable current functionality |
| 22:45.42 | Mr_Rabies | i think the only real options are develop addons as a passion project or hobby, and understand it will almost never be financially worth it to do so |
| 22:45.56 | foxlit | I think it might be more interesting to ask something like elvUI how things are going. |
| 22:47.18 | nevcairiel | they specifically moved off of curse to make more ad revenue, that would seem to go against your goals :d |
| 22:51.26 | Mr_Rabies | i'm apparently a rare breed in that i thought the internet was a lot better when people did things for the passion of it instead of trying to cash in on everything, and understood that they may even lose money in the process |
| 22:51.41 | foxlit | the positive side is that they sell subscriptions and have their own updater client, essentially a mini-curse. |
| 22:51.45 | Mr_Rabies | before advertisers convinced everyone there was gold in them thar hills |
| 22:52.40 | foxlit | (moving off curse might just be saying something about curse's margins) |
| 22:54.45 | Mr_Rabies | i would say amazon immediately offloading curse also says something about curse's margins |
| 22:55.42 | Mr_Rabies | even with their minecraft stuff, which is where i imagine most of the interest came from in the purchase in the first place |
| 22:57.04 | foxlit | (amazon acquired twitch in 2014) |
| 22:57.16 | nevcairiel | yes its been a while |
| 22:57.43 | Mr_Rabies | was curseforge part of that acquisition? |
| 22:57.54 | foxlit | no, twitch bought curseforge for... reasons?... earlier. |
| 22:58.02 | Mr_Rabies | really, jeez |
| 22:58.05 | Mr_Rabies | where has the time gone |
| 22:58.19 | Mr_Rabies | i feel like it hasn't even been a year since twitch totally took over curse stuff |
| 22:58.36 | foxlit | oh, hm, no, I got that backwards. twitch bought curseforge in 2016. |
| 22:58.49 | Mr_Rabies | i guess it has been a while since the initial client was a discord knockoff |
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| 22:59.32 | nevcairiel | who knows what twitch bought curse for, there were multiple parts of that |
| 22:59.40 | nevcairiel | they already sold of the fansites earlier |
| 23:11.23 | foxlit | another amusing time quirk: curse voice predates discord. |
| 23:12.00 | nevcairiel | does twitch even still have any remnants of that, or did they kill it off entirely |
| 23:12.41 | nevcairiel | i dont see anything in the client at least |
| 23:12.53 | foxlit | "Starting in February 2019, voice chat, video chat, group messaging, and servers will no longer be available in the Twitch Desktop App." |
| 23:13.32 | nevcairiel | that even more so leaves me wondering what twitch wanted from curse, was it really the modding stuff? |
| 23:14.26 | nevcairiel | voice got shut down, fansites almost closed down and then sold |
| 23:15.53 | foxlit | my uninformed guess is that they wanted a desktop app, possibly with some side of "hey, we should do social gaming!" and then discord sort of ate their lunch. |
| 23:16.34 | nevcairiel | didnt they re-do the client almost entirely |
| 23:17.04 | foxlit | no clue; not a user of either. |
| 23:17.34 | nevcairiel | i just launch the client once a week or so to update mods, i ignored anything that happend outside of that screen :p |
| 23:20.25 | Elmoe | whats this? twitch sold curseforge to someone? |
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| 23:22.01 | Elmoe | interesting, hopefully this means the bug where the wrong version (classic or retail) is installed will finally be fixed |
| 23:22.01 | Ketho | Torhal no longer works for Jeff Bezos at the very least |
| 23:22.16 | Elmoe | did Torhal even work on CurseForge anymore? |
| 23:22.17 | nevcairiel | I heard no staff is going over |
| 23:26.10 | Elmoe | curious what these "additional monetization streams" they have in mind are exactly |
| 23:27.34 | Elmoe | and I see nevcairiel already commented on that point and its unlikeliness, late to the convo clearly |
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