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| 17:46.55 | Chipzz | what's the first version exportInterfaceFiles on the console is supported? I downloaded an older version of WoW (3.3.5) and opened the console inside;, but it said "Unknown command" in response to exportInterfaceFiles |
| 17:49.20 | TomCat | afaik in earlier versions you can find the lua and xml in a subfolder of the wow installation... take a look and let me know? I'm curious about this also |
| 17:50.03 | TomCat | maybe even right in the addons folder prefixed by blizzard_... I recall seeing something along these lines |
| 17:50.06 | Iriel | In older versions you had to download a separate extractor |
| 17:50.25 | TomCat | really? what am I thinking of? |
| 17:50.51 | Iriel | InterfaceAddonTool I think it was called |
| 17:51.06 | Iriel | Those files are probably the stubs for the code signing verification or whatever it does |
| 17:52.08 | Chipzz | Iriel: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Interface_AddOn_Kit wasn't an extractor, it was the interface itself zipped up :) |
| 17:52.38 | TomCat | I've seen some git repos with older versions of the interface code if that's what you are looking for |
| 17:52.56 | Chipzz | TomCat: I've found them too. unfortunately they do not ship GlueXML |
| 17:53.01 | Chipzz | or artwork |
| 17:53.13 | Chipzz | it's FrameXML only which is insufficient for me |
| 17:53.22 | TomCat | looking for older undocumented API to see if it's still available despite no longer being called by blizzard's newer interface? |
| 17:53.25 | Chipzz | (FrameXML + AddOns) |
| 17:53.38 | Chipzz | no, running my emulator on older versions |
| 17:55.10 | TomCat | *room suddenly gets quiet except for the cricket noises in the background* |
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| 17:55.45 | znf | good luck with that |
| 17:56.03 | Chipzz | TomCat: I ran my emulator on the 3.3.5 commit of that repo, but I had to copy over images from newer versions which didn't always match. and was lacking the GlueXML |
| 17:56.53 | Chipzz | I think best bet is probably to find a tool to extract the casc myself |
| 17:59.18 | TomCat | sounds suspicious |
| 17:59.38 | Chipzz | suspicious? |
| 18:02.18 | TomCat | I can't think of many legitimate purposes to emulate either the client or the server, whichever may be the case here |
| 18:02.28 | Chipzz | hobby project |
| 18:02.35 | Chipzz | just emulating the UI |
| 18:03.01 | Chipzz | and both Dan & Tom know about it, and have never told me to cease development, so.... |
| 18:03.46 | TomCat | well that's between you and them and the reset of Blizzard - just be careful. awareness of something is not permission |
| 18:04.14 | TomCat | I'd be hesitant to create something which communicates with the blizzard back-end |
| 18:04.20 | Chipzz | sure |
| 18:04.30 | Chipzz | that would probably get my account banned |
| 18:04.52 | Chipzz | but atm it's just a sandbox without network (or sound) |
| 18:05.13 | Chipzz | OpenGL + libxml2 + lua |
| 18:05.53 | TomCat | on the other hand could be useful as a UI development tool if that's the direction you're going |
| 18:06.12 | Chipzz | and FWIW I'm working on OSX/Linux, no interest to make it run or keep it compatible with windows in any way |
| 18:07.20 | Chipzz | although I might take patches if anyone would want to make it run on windows |
| 18:10.00 | TomCat | is the 8.1.0 Dec. 11 release date straight from blizzard or speculation? |
| 18:10.13 | Chipzz | also, I've sent diffs to Dan fixing issues in the UI, and have another diff pending |
| 18:11.01 | TomCat | no worries - just wasn't familiar with what you were doing and making sure I'm not advising some murloc trying to setup a private wow server for people to play free on |
| 18:11.03 | TomCat | :) |
| 18:11.15 | Chipzz | TomCat: did you know Dan had an emulator too before he got hired by Blizz? |
| 18:11.47 | Chipzz | probably the reason he got hired in the first place :) |
| 18:13.16 | TomCat | I've considered seeking employment with blizz - I love blizzard and their games... any kind of corporate environment isn't going to work with me for the foreseeable future though |
| 18:14.04 | TomCat | I work better as independent/freelance |
| 18:14.53 | TomCat | wrecked my health trying to fit as a square peg in a round hole before |
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| 18:16.07 | Chipzz | TomCat: http://chipzz.safehex.be/wow2018/ are older screenshots if you're interested |
| 18:16.55 | TomCat | that's pretty cool |
| 18:17.45 | Chipzz | Legion UI I think |
| 18:17.47 | TomCat | that's pretty cool |
| 18:17.58 | TomCat | sorry - lag - didn't look like the first one went thru :) |
| 18:19.03 | Chipzz | it did :) |
| 18:19.28 | Chipzz | I plan to put it on github once I'm happy enough with the code quality |
| 18:19.35 | TomCat | from time to time I fantasize about making a UI-only emulator for Java to plug into IDEA but then I quickly remind myself that it could be a pretty big time investment just to get to the point where I could then begin fixing nuances |
| 18:19.58 | TomCat | a big easier to make it available cross-platform that way |
| 18:20.00 | TomCat | *bit |
| 18:20.01 | Chipzz | the big problem is all the API stubs you need to create |
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| 18:20.37 | Chipzz | most of my time is spent fixing the lua side of things, not the C++ side |
| 18:21.03 | TomCat | I sometimes fantasize about an emulator, and other times about a more complete extraction of UI documentation |
| 18:21.53 | TomCat | then I just go bck to logging into WoW over and over and/or hitting /reload |
| 18:24.33 | Alram | i now know of 3 people doing that |
| 18:24.34 | Alram | heh |
| 18:24.54 | TomCat | working with emulators or what I'm doing? |
| 18:25.07 | Alram | emulating the UI |
| 18:25.18 | Alram | 2 of those are also remaking the rest of the client but yeah |
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| 18:25.26 | TomCat | yeah was gonna say... I think everyone else has resigned to sticking with /reload |
| 18:26.38 | Chipzz | for me it was Legion release being buggy and thinking to myself: "How hard can this be, really?" :p |
| 18:26.58 | TomCat | probably some secret mode to make the existing blizzard client work offline for UI development anyway :) |
| 18:27.02 | Alram | well you're doing pretty well |
| 18:27.16 | Alram | i think i've only seen one person emulate it better than in those screenshots |
| 18:27.22 | Chipzz | thanks :) |
| 18:27.36 | Chipzz | there's still a lot of basic things missing |
| 18:27.48 | Chipzz | anchoring to FontStrings is not supported/broken |
| 18:27.57 | Chipzz | some of the anchoring goes tits up |
| 18:27.59 | Alram | i like how all 3 have different font rendering because blizzard's is quite special |
| 18:28.45 | Chipzz | http://chipzz.safehex.be/wow2018/Screen%20Shot%202018-01-27%20at%2018.59.19.png is an example of anchoring going wrong, the highlight is in the wrong place |
| 18:29.37 | Chipzz | but I need to rewrite the whole rendering anyway, atm it's just glBegin/glEnd, not even VBO's :p |
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| 18:33.17 | TomCat | planning to add the model viewer? |
| 18:34.02 | Chipzz | what do you mean? <Model(FFX)>, <PlayerModel>, or <ModelScene> ? |
| 18:34.12 | Chipzz | or <WorldFrame> ? |
| 18:34.23 | TomCat | def. not worldframe |
| 18:34.55 | TomCat | playermodel and I'm not sure which of the other 2 you would use to show a creature model... think in terms of the pet journal |
| 18:35.56 | Chipzz | <Model> is used in GlueXML |
| 18:36.05 | Chipzz | or rather, ModelFFX |
| 18:36.33 | Chipzz | took a sohrt look at m2 rendering, but it's rather complex, and the code I could find was outdated |
| 18:39.07 | Chipzz | the part I like most is that despite my emulator not supporting Animations (it parses them and puts them in objects, but these objects are not (yet) involved in the rendering), the PetFrame atcually is animated :) |
| 18:40.23 | TomCat | that's my goal for the suite of addons I'm working on |
| 18:40.29 | TomCat | similar appeal |
| 18:41.02 | TomCat | usefulness/usability are #1 and #2... and cool factor to get the users talking about it #3 |
| 18:42.07 | TomCat | same will go for the webapp if I can prove ability to get the users |
| 18:43.10 | TomCat | only just hit 4k users today for TomCat's Tours (Arathi highlands version) so have a long way to go |
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| 18:45.25 | TomCat | I would have more fun working on what you're working on though Chipzz |
| 18:46.20 | Chipzz | there's still plenty to do :) |
| 18:46.48 | TomCat | very tempting but yaknow - I gotta keep working on things that have at least some potential for passive income |
| 18:47.36 | Chipzz | Button/CheckButton/Slider/StatusBar are mostly complete, Frame also but still missing things (it's a huge API), all the rest is mostly stubs |
| 18:47.51 | Chipzz | EditBox has some implementation but no input yet |
| 18:48.03 | Chipzz | but well, 80/20 rule :) |
| 18:48.16 | TomCat | one of my contracts was with a company trying to break into the game streaming industry - whereas the game would be run on a server in the cloud and the end user gets the video stream |
| 18:48.28 | TomCat | I think this was in 2012 |
| 18:48.52 | TomCat | we got a working prototype working with the WoW client running on the cloud server |
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| 18:50.09 | TomCat | a lot of stuff with xvid |
| 18:50.38 | TomCat | beginning to stream the frame simultaneously to the frame being encoded, etc. |
| 18:51.32 | TomCat | unfortunately this company seemed only interested in making a working demo to sell stocks and dump the company |
| 18:51.40 | znf | wasn't there OnCloud (?) in 2012? |
| 18:52.00 | znf | there was something ages ago |
| 18:52.03 | TomCat | maybe - if it was called something else in 2012 |
| 18:52.19 | Shockah | i think you mean OnLive? |
| 18:52.52 | znf | Onlive |
| 18:52.52 | znf | yes |
| 18:53.07 | znf | 2009-2015 |
| 18:53.10 | TomCat | there was a company that filed for a patent in '12 or '13 but I would consider a weak patent because there was visible evidence of others having this concept prior |
| 18:53.46 | TomCat | at the time they weren't using virtual machines whoever it was... they had 1 piece of hardware per user |
| 18:55.45 | TomCat | same time microsoft had released a version of their VM that could tap into/share hardware GPUs |
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| 18:56.32 | znf | In March 2014 the company hired a new CEO, Mark Jung and released a new gaming service, CloudLift.[56] Cloudlift links to selected titles in a player's game library and allows the player resume gameplay on another device. |
| 18:56.39 | znf | On April 3, 2015, OnLive announced it had sold most of its assets to Sony Entertainment and would be shutting down all services on April 30, 2015.[57] |
| 18:58.01 | TomCat | the place I was at - unfortunately the same folks that tried to release the phantom console a decade earlier |
| 18:58.48 | TomCat | I think the CEO is serving jail time now |
| 19:00.05 | TomCat | real shame to start a company intending to do a pump and dump scheme... and then hire people who can actually create what the founders didn't think was possible |
| 19:01.13 | TomCat | i.e. they could have made a legit company that delivered what was promised if they weren't already in a position of overpromising and underdelivering by the time they started having working prototypes instead of mock-up demo |
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| 19:02.43 | TomCat | I got paid but the company that sold my contract to them got stuck with a good part of the bill |
| 19:03.01 | TomCat | awful |
| 19:03.32 | Chipzz | back |
| 19:04.12 | Chipzz | sucks for them but that's the way life goes |
| 19:04.25 | TomCat | apparently this kind of thing isn't too uncommon so beware of unscrupulous founders of startups just in it to pump and dump |
| 19:04.44 | znf | TomCat, what was doing the actual video encoding? |
| 19:04.47 | znf | hardware or software? |
| 19:05.07 | TomCat | the encoder was software but grabbing the frames as they came off of the hardware encoder |
| 19:05.29 | TomCat | asic would be faster if it existed as tight as the xvid encoder but it did not at least at the time |
| 19:05.41 | TomCat | esp. for the zero latency stream start |
| 19:07.51 | Chipzz | TomCat: as far as emulating addons for testing, my emulator supports none of the Blizzard protections and I use stock lua so no support for taint |
| 19:09.02 | TomCat | on a good consumer broadband connection it was reasonable to be only 1 frame behind what was on the cloud vs. what the user could see local at 30fps |
| 19:09.58 | Chipzz | TomCat: how was scaling (ie for more than 1 client) |
| 19:10.18 | Chipzz | was 1 server capable of streaming more than 1 clients at once for example? |
| 19:10.46 | Chipzz | or did you need a 1 <-> 1 ratio? |
| 19:10.49 | TomCat | 1 VM per user, # of VMs depended on the hardware thrown at it. |
| 19:11.06 | TomCat | # of GPUs in the blade, how much RAM, etc. |
| 19:11.37 | Chipzz | I always have my doubt about such things because it would probably involve too many servers to be workable IRL |
| 19:11.41 | TomCat | some potential for future games to be written to be optimized for the platform... but for off the shelf games intended to be played on PCs you could still get a lot of bang for the buck |
| 19:11.53 | Chipzz | if you have tenthousands of players you need tenthousands of servers |
| 19:12.18 | TomCat | consider today I can run a handful of WoW clients full screen on my laptop |
| 19:12.42 | TomCat | with an eGPU and $600 graphics card |
| 19:13.01 | TomCat | that one system intended for a single user could serve a handful of users |
| 19:13.17 | TomCat | game requirements seem to scale up with hardware availability |
| 19:13.31 | Chipzz | it may handle standing idle somewhere, but how does it handle 10 users all raiding at the same time? |
| 19:14.18 | TomCat | I never got to crunch the numbers with what kind of deals could be gotten with the hardware vendor... but just a rough swag I'd say it was anywhere from $300-$600 hardware cost per concurrent usre |
| 19:14.55 | TomCat | with ability to keep up at least a 30fps feed per user |
| 19:16.05 | TomCat | non-optimized |
| 19:17.04 | TomCat | and with games developed specifically for streaming so that textures and such can be shared, that cost per concurrent user could go way down |
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| 19:25.34 | TomCat | we were also testing with an FPS... can't remember the name - name begins with a U and was popular in 2012 |
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| 19:26.24 | TomCat | hmm... wait wrong year - 2011 actually |
| 19:26.38 | TomCat | just found some old press releases from that company |
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| 20:47.40 | Chipzz | TomCat: in case you're interested, last major thing I implemented recently is support for intrinsics (XML feature) |
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| 20:52.39 | TomCat | is that where a frame has a mixin specified for it? |
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| 21:09.08 | TomCat | not a big xml guy and haven't seen the term used in conjunction with blizzard api before :) |
| 21:12.54 | TomCat | if you're referring to the datatypes (boolean, string, URI, etc) it didn't occur to me initially as I'd use someone else's xml parser and support for that would be implied |
| 21:13.25 | TomCat | so splain it lucy |
| 21:24.10 | nevcairiel | intrinsics are basically user-defined frame types |
| 21:38.08 | TomCat | first I'm hearing that as being possible - any example or doc on this? |
| 21:42.01 | TomCat | nvm I see it now |
| 21:46.18 | TomCat | so basically ContainedAlertFrame and ScrollingMessageFrame? |
| 21:51.09 | TomCat | solves why my IDE invalidates any XML using those |
| 21:51.22 | TomCat | intrinsic="true" - eep |
| 21:57.56 | TomCat | in what kinds of scenarios would I want to use that instead of virtual="true" ? |
| 21:59.53 | Chipzz | intrinsics are rrames in pure lua |
| 22:00.46 | Chipzz | ScrollingMessageFrame used to be a C++ implementatio, move to pure lua |
| 22:01.44 | Chipzz | intrinsic create a new XML tag |
| 22:01.45 | Chipzz | * |
| 22:01.58 | Chipzz | an can be used as the 1st arg to CreateFrame |
| 22:11.10 | Chipzz | compat would be a good example |
| 22:28.23 | TomCat | I'm not sure what you mean by compat as a good example |
| 22:28.56 | nevcairiel | you can take an existing frame type and re-implement it in pure lua, without requiring changes anywhere else |
| 22:31.52 | TomCat | are there any intrinsics in blizzard's interface code that come to mind besides the two I mentioned (which I see an xml component of) which are pure lua? |
| 22:32.28 | TomCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:33.46 | TomCat | but it sounds like something I might want to use in some current code |
| 22:37.10 | TomCat | ex. I made a minimap button library which uses a virtual frame due to not wanting to use a GNU licensed library such as LibDBIcon |
| 22:39.09 | Funkeh` | lol? |
| 22:39.41 | TomCat | it's GNU right? I mean that's how it's specified on wowace |
| 22:39.51 | Funkeh` | i dont even know |
| 22:40.33 | TomCat | yeah it's listed as GNU |
| 22:40.45 | TomCat | i.e copyleft |
| 22:40.51 | Funkeh` | thats bad because? |
| 22:41.08 | TomCat | because it requires anything that users it to also be GNU |
| 22:41.12 | TomCat | *uses |
| 22:41.53 | Funkeh` | you have my permission to use it in any addon you want |
| 22:42.16 | TomCat | sure - but then I have to give permission to ALL of the code in my addon to be used freely in any way someone wants |
| 22:42.31 | TomCat | I'm willing to open source it but I'm not willing to give up my copyright arbitrarily |
| 22:42.47 | Funkeh` | you're willing to open source it? |
| 22:42.50 | Funkeh` | wut |
| 22:42.59 | TomCat | Apache 2.0 is better if your intent is just to allow others to freely use your work |
| 22:43.15 | TomCat | GNU forces them to also have their work freely used by others |
| 22:43.48 | TomCat | I'm willing to open source my addons - sorry missed the context in that statement |
| 22:44.36 | TomCat | ever heard of how software like PLEX came to be? |
| 22:44.56 | Chipzz | TomCat: ScrollingMessageFrame is perfect example of compat |
| 22:45.11 | Chipzz | ScrollingMessageFrame used to be a C++ class |
| 22:45.50 | Chipzz | and got moved to be a XML/Lua "widget" in Legion |
| 22:46.23 | Chipzz | they want less C++ code, and ScrollingMessageFrame is simple enough to implement in pure lua |
| 22:46.42 | TomCat | ok - so to be clear when you say pure lua you mean as opposed to c++, not as opposed to utilizing some xml in its implementation |
| 22:47.11 | Chipzz | intrinsics can only be defined in XML |
| 22:47.23 | Chipzz | so there is XML involved, just no C++ |
| 22:47.27 | TomCat | got it |
| 22:47.33 | TomCat | that clears some of the confusion thanks |
| 22:48.56 | TomCat | Funkeh - I'm not a lawyer but if the libdbicon code is not being distributed with a GNU license attached (I think it has to be actually part of the distribution to count) it might not matter that it's listed as GNU on wowace and you could change it to Apache 2.0 or something more permissive... but |
| 22:48.56 | TomCat | as I said I'm not a lawyer so I didn't want to touch it |
| 22:49.11 | Chipzz | why use intrinsic over inherits="foo"? not a lot of reasons, but one is you can define On* scripts on the intrinsic and define the order of XML On* on instances on them |
| 22:49.58 | Chipzz | compare inherit to intrinsicOrder (both on script tags) |
| 22:50.20 | nevcairiel | yeah templates and scripts are really annoying |
| 22:50.34 | Chipzz | intrinsicOrder is defined on the intrinsic (the base) |
| 22:50.37 | nevcairiel | intrinsics make that more workable |
| 22:50.48 | TomCat | looks like I have some homework tonight then! |
| 22:50.56 | Chipzz | inherit is used on the deriving instance |
| 22:51.06 | Chipzz | (the subclass) |
| 22:51.15 | Chipzz | using "base" and "subclass" loosely here |
| 22:51.22 | Funkeh` | TomCat: no offense but I'm just not in the "think about licenses" mindset right now. Suffice to saythe library is freely available with the intent for people to use it in any addon they want. Does it need a better license, sure I guess. But I'm directly telling you my intent is that you can use it wherever you want. |
| 22:53.50 | TomCat | appreciated Funkeh. It's not you I was personally worried about with it as it seemed as if your intent was just as you said here. It's others. i.e. the PLEX example I gave. Verizon years ago created software for their settop boxes. Some developer included some GNU licensed libraries in it. |
| 22:53.50 | TomCat | Someone not from Verizon found out and wanted to make a freely available software based on the set top box software. |
| 22:54.04 | TomCat | they won and all of Verizon's competitors got Verizon's software for free |
| 22:54.10 | TomCat | to do with whatever they wanted |
| 22:54.11 | Chipzz | TomCat: https://pastebin.com/DqtL2zWZ is my C++ implementation of setscript |
| 22:54.36 | TomCat | I don't think those who wrote the gnu libraries were even involved |
| 22:55.45 | TomCat | I can't stop places like WowMatrix from distributing my addons when I prefer Twitch to distribute them, for example, if I were to use a GNU library |
| 22:56.23 | TomCat | anyway - just FYI - I don't mean to make you think about it any further |
| 22:57.14 | TomCat | bbiab - gotta install a dishwasher - lol |
| 22:57.18 | Funkeh` | All my addons are ARR and many of them have LDBI so shrug |
| 22:57.48 | *** join/#wowuidev ShaunDreclin (~Shaun@toroon4425w-lp140-04-76-64-34-76.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:58.40 | ShaunDreclin | Hey I'm using MinimapButtonFrame and running into this issue with my mission button, is there a way to mask a frame to a certain shape? https://i.imgur.com/ELgzjKJ.png |
| 23:01.11 | Funkeh` | that shine might actually be shaped that way for the alliance shield |
| 23:01.39 | Funkeh` | I always found addons like MBF to be a hack anyway, I prefer minimap addons that have auto hide for buttons |
| 23:10.49 | Chipzz | TomCat: intrinsics still don't allow you to introduce new attributes or tags on Frames or other classes you subclass though |
| 23:17.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (Ressy@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 23:51.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@m83-185-246-226.cust.tele2.se) |
| 23:52.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols2 (~yaaic@78-70-44-4-no170.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 23:58.46 | ShaunDreclin | Funkeh`: yeah the icon and shine are shaped like that, was just wondering if I could mask it out into a circle shape somehow so it didnt show anything outside the circle |
| 23:59.22 | Funkeh` | no clue, but it's possible to replace it with a circular glow. You'd just have to code it yourself |
| 23:59.36 | ShaunDreclin | ahh |
| 23:59.59 | Funkeh` | the atlas file is already available since the pre-BfA icon used a circular one |
