| 00:00.04 | Mr_Rabies | i know that TSM can, but tsm is a UX nightmare and i uninstall it within 10 minutes every time i install it |
| 00:00.57 | Mr_Rabies | also i still can't help but double-take when i see Kemayo's real name on a changelog :v |
| 00:07.37 | Gnarfoz | I was going to recommend TSM, but... yeah |
| 00:10.00 | Mr_Rabies | it's insanely powerful but the UX is impossible for me to get used to, it seems |
| 00:11.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelo (~Aelo@host86-188-4-130.range86-188.btcentralplus.com) |
| 00:14.36 | raylu | tsm? |
| 00:14.53 | raylu | oh |
| 00:15.31 | raylu | can't you just run auctioneer with just the interface addon? |
| 00:17.47 | Gnarfoz | I haven't used auctionator, so I don't know what kind of integration you need that auctionator+TUJ addon wouldn't provide |
| 00:17.54 | Mr_Rabies | i ended up leaving auctioneer because it was always super slow to update when it broke |
| 00:18.17 | Mr_Rabies | auctionator just basically can't be configured to pull from TUJ addon, as far as i can tell, Gnarfoz |
| 00:18.32 | Mr_Rabies | it sort of can |
| 00:18.46 | Mr_Rabies | but only if it doesn't have any kinda database entry on the item |
| 00:19.04 | Gnarfoz | I'm not sure what you mean by "pull from" in that context |
| 00:19.17 | Mr_Rabies | it prefers to use its own database and can't be configured otherwise |
| 00:19.27 | Mr_Rabies | and it adds to the database automatically when you search for an item |
| 00:19.45 | Mr_Rabies | you can see the TUJ prices but it's a really weird workflow |
| 00:20.13 | Mr_Rabies | if the auctionator database doesn't have an entry for an item, though, it'll use TUJ for the normal item listing workflow |
| 00:21.10 | Mr_Rabies | if it was configurable i'd be down because i love the auctionator workflow in general |
| 00:21.26 | Mr_Rabies | i may try auctioneer again but i know it's gonna be broken for a while with legion :< |
| 00:21.28 | raylu | in other internet-addon-connectivity news, is there something like lightheaded that's been updated recently? (wowhead quest comment db) |
| 00:26.11 | Amarande | wowhead has semi fallen from grace lately |
| 00:26.32 | Amarande | I get the feeling it's starting to collect cobwebs, especially with, e.g., the total lack of wowhead staff presence in #wowhead anymore |
| 00:26.50 | raylu | what would you recommend instead? |
| 00:27.08 | Amarande | not really sure, I tend to grudgingly use wowhead anyway |
| 00:27.12 | raylu | haha |
| 00:27.27 | Amarande | but yeah, it's not nearly as well-kept as it used to be and I hear they're having a lot of problems with being served malware-laced ads |
| 00:27.28 | raylu | well, staff issues aside, the comment db is very valuable regardless |
| 00:27.59 | raylu | and it'd be cool to have it right in my quest log |
| 00:28.03 | Gnarfoz | what staff, tbh? :p |
| 00:28.14 | raylu | and if there are no staff, nothing is stopping anyone from scraping the whole site, right? |
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| 01:29.12 | Gethe | so addons are enabled on legion alpha |
| 01:29.43 | straddle | thatâs surprising |
| 01:30.09 | Gethe | indeed |
| 01:30.12 | Gnarfoz | quite |
| 01:30.29 | Gnarfoz | cogwheel can finally retire |
| 01:30.48 | Gethe | could be they just forgot /shrug |
| 01:30.59 | Gnarfoz | I think you mean /run |
| 01:30.59 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 01:31.02 | Gethe | anything you guys want me to look at? |
| 01:31.04 | straddle | i wouldnât put it past them haha |
| 01:32.19 | Stanzilla | Gethe: yea please look at why I have no invite :) thanks! |
| 01:32.48 | Gethe | Stanzilla: lol on it! |
| 01:33.15 | Rythal | same, put in a bug report that I don't have an invite... that's a very serious game breaking bug |
| 01:33.40 | Gnarfoz | sorry guys, they removed the in-game reporting tool :( |
| 01:33.48 | Gnarfoz | (...ages ago) |
| 01:34.15 | Gnarfoz | still don't quite know why, that must have cut feedback by a ton |
| 01:34.54 | Rythal | the type of feedback they want, the tiny ticket reporting wouldn't be very good for. |
| 01:35.28 | Gnarfoz | "tiny"? |
| 01:36.13 | Rythal | well.. the ingame reporting window compared to forums that anyone can look at and easy to email the right person and say hey look at this bug, fix it NOW |
| 01:36.21 | Gnarfoz | the only bug reports that don't fit in there are armchair game designer posts |
| 01:36.54 | Gnarfoz | right, forums where "someone can look and email" vs. something attached to a bug tracking system really sounds like the superior solution |
| 01:37.09 | Gnarfoz | excuse my sarcasm :P |
| 01:37.55 | Gnarfoz | not to mention one includes a ton of info out of the box, the other... yeah. it includes mad people. |
| 01:38.03 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 01:38.07 | Rythal | this is wow were talking about... the game even more toxic then CoD and LoL combined in it's venemous.. a forum post is easier to deal with then 1000 tickets all saying "u guyz r dumb, dun change dis" |
| 01:38.29 | Gnarfoz | you seem to be thinking of something other than I am |
| 01:38.47 | Gnarfoz | how do I report "this tree is floating in the air" effectively now? |
| 01:38.54 | Gnarfoz | that was easy before |
| 01:39.04 | Gnarfoz | reports include coordinates, have categories to pick from, etc |
| 01:39.28 | raylu | wait... why wouldn't addons be enabled? |
| 01:39.34 | Gnarfoz | now: screenshot, forum post (hopefully I can post on US forums as EU), will maybe be read? also, screenshot looks like 5 other places with trees |
| 01:39.41 | Gnarfoz | raylu: because they usually aren't, until later on |
| 01:39.49 | raylu | yeah, but why? |
| 01:39.55 | Rythal | raylu: they don't usually enable addons until close to release to ensure no bug reports are crap from addons |
| 01:39.59 | Gnarfoz | because stuff changes and they don't want to deal with it |
| 01:40.06 | raylu | i see |
| 01:40.13 | Gnarfoz | their own UI is the only thing they officially support |
| 01:40.15 | raylu | sucks for addon devs, though |
| 01:40.26 | Gnarfoz | meh, they enable it early enough |
| 01:40.28 | Gnarfoz | betas last quite a while |
| 01:40.52 | Gnarfoz | also, the systems patch usually goes on the PTR, too, doesn't it |
| 01:40.55 | Rythal | and for some of us, theirs db2 decoding to do on top of the addon coding. |
| 01:41.13 | Gnarfoz | that has nothing to do with addons, though ^^ |
| 01:41.40 | Rythal | is too :P Carbonite relies on the info I get out of the db's ;P |
| 01:41.55 | Gnarfoz | Carbonite? what is this, BC? :D |
| 01:42.23 | Gnarfoz | we should get Zorba back for a reunion with QuestHelper ^^ |
| 01:42.54 | Rythal | I'm still on the fence if i'm even going to publicly release a legion version, or just make it and keep it for myself. |
| 01:43.12 | Gnarfoz | or delete it altogether! |
| 01:43.14 | Gnarfoz | ^^ |
| 01:43.32 | Rythal | naw that's why I took it over in the first place.. I can't stand not having the maps. |
| 01:56.26 | Stanzilla | https://github.com/NARKOZ/hacker-scripts |
| 01:56.34 | *** join/#wowuidev j311yf1sh (~j311yf1sh@220-245-77-133.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 01:56.35 | Stanzilla | that's one of the coolest shits I've ever seen |
| 01:57.08 | Gnarfoz | when I saw some post translating the russian bash story |
| 01:57.17 | Gnarfoz | and someone posted this github repo in the comments |
| 01:57.36 | Gnarfoz | my first reactionw as a huge facepalm because at that point it was only hipster ruby scripts |
| 01:58.25 | Gnarfoz | (now it's ruby, python and python3... and some shell skeletons. still weak. :P) |
| 02:01.59 | Stanzilla | lots of stuff is missing in the repo anyway |
| 02:02.14 | Gnarfoz | for example: account flags |
| 02:02.59 | Stanzilla | I really wanted to see details on the coffee mashine script :D |
| 02:03.03 | Stanzilla | *c |
| 02:04.49 | Rythal | I think everyone wants a network connected coffee machine, i'm actually surprised no one like keurig has come out with a wifi enabled model to allow remote brewing. |
| 02:05.20 | Ressy | lol |
| 02:06.12 | Neffi | yes, I want my coffee pot to have an IP |
| 02:06.28 | Gnarfoz | IP coffee pot somehow sounds wrong. |
| 02:06.34 | Neffi | because that morning cup of joe is just that much better with a dose of malware |
| 02:06.35 | Rythal | I know I could sure use it right now since mine is dying, so I have to get up and press brew 4 times just to get a full cup of coffee.. would be nice to be able to ssh into it and type sys brew instead |
| 02:07.04 | Amarande | Neffi: but will it use HTCPCP? :) |
| 02:07.04 | Gnarfoz | ooor... you could get a regular coffee machine that brews a whole pot! :D |
| 02:07.20 | Amarande | there actually *is* a hypertext coffeepot control protocol :) |
| 02:07.20 | Gnarfoz | I know, radical suggestion :( |
| 02:07.27 | Rythal | full pots get cold too fast.. keurig has spoiled me with always hot coffee |
| 02:07.28 | Neffi | Gnarfoz: get out of here with your logic |
| 02:07.35 | Gnarfoz | ok :( |
| 02:07.40 | Neffi | didnt your pot have a hot plate? |
| 02:07.45 | Amarande | heh, I finally tried the family's k-cup brewer this weekend |
| 02:07.47 | raylu | http://www.darkreading.com/endpoint/vulnerable-coffee-machine-demonstrates-brewing-security-challenges-of-iot/d/d-id/1323022 |
| 02:07.47 | Amarande | it's awesome |
| 02:07.50 | Rythal | those only last 2 hours |
| 02:07.52 | Gnarfoz | Stanzilla: I shall try and find ze betaz in dreamland now |
| 02:08.01 | Amarande | and it's an original-series keurig too so the my kcup is there |
| 02:08.03 | Stanzilla | good luck with that |
| 02:08.06 | Gnarfoz | Neffi sent me away |
| 02:08.12 | Neffi | so what you really want is a coffee brewer capable of keeping your coffee warm longer, or a microwave |
| 02:08.17 | Amarande | I got pissed at keurig when they came out with 2.0 and pretty much shunned the tech like plague |
| 02:08.19 | Rythal | Amarande: Keurig gave up on 2.0, too much back lash thankfully |
| 02:08.25 | Gnarfoz | what you REALLY want... is tea |
| 02:08.27 | Amarande | like, DRM on coffee pods? SERIOUSLY? |
| 02:08.29 | Gnarfoz | mwahahaha! |
| 02:08.38 | Neffi | I don't like the idea of Keurig because I can't choose how much coffee to use. |
| 02:08.42 | Neffi | Dammit, I brew it strong |
| 02:09.01 | Amarande | yeah, the keurig brewed stuff does seem a tad weaker than the drip coffee I used to make |
| 02:09.06 | Rythal | I use refillable pogs, and kirkland (costco) brand dark coffee... works great |
| 02:09.11 | Amarande | I don't feel like unpacking the Mr Coffee again though before we move |
| 02:09.13 | Neffi | and most regular drip is piss weak anyway |
| 02:09.14 | raylu | Amarande: http://www.darkreading.com/risk/cartoon-what-your-toaster-now-needs-/d/d-id/1269204 |
| 02:09.42 | Amarande | Neffi: the malware doesn't usually affect the device's functioning, far as I've heard |
| 02:10.06 | Neffi | until it does and also starts spying on me while I dance around my kitchen buck naked singing showtunes |
| 02:10.12 | Neffi | don't judge me |
| 02:10.17 | Amarande | usually it's more "we're going to rig your coffee pot/fridge/etc. to surreptitiously send out spam and you'll search your computer for infections in vain when you hear the ISP complaint" |
| 02:10.19 | Rythal | Kinect already spys on me doing that >.> |
| 02:10.32 | mckenziemc | you've just done more damage to yourself than a coffee machine ever could |
| 02:10.41 | Neffi | :3 |
| 02:11.06 | Neffi | i lied. i'm probably in my underwear singing RHCP instead |
| 02:11.07 | Amarande | "hey, this is comcast, you're apparently running an open mail and dns relay, check your PC for viruses" |
| 02:11.19 | Amarande | ... and of course the PC comes up clean because it's the coffee maker that's got the open mail and dns relay on it :) |
| 02:11.34 | Semlar | what |
| 02:11.49 | Rythal | wait, since when does comcast let home users access port 25 for open mail relays anyways :P |
| 02:12.01 | Amarande | heh, true that |
| 02:12.06 | Amarande | DNS relays on the other hand, that could happen I suppose |
| 02:12.09 | Neffi | infects Semlar's car with malware which sends all of his private moments to Torhal |
| 02:12.28 | Semlar | but i already do that |
| 02:12.34 | mckenziemc | not sure "mal" is appropriate there |
| 02:12.56 | Amarande | mind you, my 53 is locked up tight, only port you'll find open on this box from the outside world is 113 |
| 02:13.00 | Semlar | neffi one of the answers on jeopardy tonight was about sexting |
| 02:13.25 | Amarande | Semlar: what makes me shake my head is that "sext" is apparently officially recognised as a word now, even in Words With Friends |
| 02:13.27 | mckenziemc | blocks Amarande's power port. |
| 02:13.32 | Amarande | whereas actual words like, say, "querent" are rejected |
| 02:13.36 | raylu | doesn't even have to be direct smtp. can just run a proxy for traffic and have a screen scraper creating free email accounts |
| 02:13.48 | Rythal | I have 21,23,25,53,80,110,113,443,465,587 open :( I like people probing me |
| 02:13.50 | Amarande | (why does that sting? because I could have gotten 100+ points once if the damn game had recognised querent was a damn word) |
| 02:13.59 | Gnarfoz | #nocontext |
| 02:14.05 | Ressy | snickers |
| 02:14.12 | Amarande | Rythal: dude, iptables that shit yo :) |
| 02:14.18 | Stanzilla | mars |
| 02:14.26 | Gnarfoz | Almdudler |
| 02:14.31 | Rythal | I run public servers :P |
| 02:14.40 | Stanzilla | I run from people |
| 02:14.44 | Amarande | and 23? |
| 02:14.47 | Gnarfoz | I run with scissors |
| 02:14.48 | Amarande | telnet is deprecated :( |
| 02:15.04 | Amarande | only thing telnet clients are good for these days is MUDs |
| 02:15.18 | Gnarfoz | it's high time for a new Weird Al album |
| 02:15.21 | Rythal | actually 23 is probably closed, it's only my router that uses it.. never checked if i've forwarded that one to the server or not |
| 02:15.41 | Amarande | actually I also have 50100-50199 forwarded to this machine, but those are almost never used |
| 02:15.52 | Amarande | those just exist on the off chance I need to make an outbound DCC connection on IRC |
| 02:16.10 | raylu | DCC... when was the last time you actually used that? |
| 02:16.17 | Gnarfoz | also, why do you have 21 open but not 20? you active mode hater! |
| 02:16.23 | Rythal | Weird Al won't be doing new albums anymore now that his contract is over, he said by the time a cd's done the songs he's lampooning are dead and forgotten, prefers to do one off releases when stuff is relevant |
| 02:16.41 | Amarande | raylu: probably back when I had an eggdrop bot hosted on a shell server, heh |
| 02:16.55 | Gnarfoz | (don't tell me you missed the album title joke) |
| 02:17.11 | Amarande | if you ever need to register with an eggdrop bot in general, you need dcc |
| 02:17.25 | Amarande | they're getting rare, but occasionally I see them in RPG gaming channels in particular |
| 02:17.39 | Rythal | I did miss the run with sissors part :P |
| 02:17.48 | Neffi | <Semlar> neffi one of the answers on jeopardy tonight was about sexting <- the world is changing, Semlar, and it scares me |
| 02:18.19 | Semlar | hold me neffi |
| 02:19.01 | Gnarfoz | puts Semlar on hold |
| 02:20.08 | Semlar | D: |
| 02:20.11 | Rythal | sexting.. isn't that like 3 years ago? now it's snapchat flirting |
| 02:20.30 | Gnarfoz | snapchat? isn't that 2 years ago? now it's "Yo" |
| 02:22.47 | Neffi | i go slep Semlar |
| 02:22.56 | Neffi | dont stay up all night 'secksting' |
| 02:23.06 | Semlar | i'll meet you there |
| 02:23.12 | Neffi | :3 |
| 02:23.27 | Semlar | neffi should i buy a 3 piece suit on amazon |
| 02:24.01 | mckenziemc | runs off with Semlar's incisors. |
| 02:25.00 | Amarande | heh snapchat |
| 02:25.10 | Amarande | all these quaint messaging apps that apparently were all the rage |
| 02:25.17 | Amarande | and that some places seem to think are still awesome for some reason |
| 02:25.42 | Amarande | like southwest airlines. you can get a discount messaging app wifi access privilege ... it lets you use iMessage, WhatsApp, and Viber. |
| 02:26.03 | Amarande | Who the heck still uses WhatsApp, and I've never even heard of Viber ... I'm guessing iMessage is some kind of built in iPhone/iPad app |
| 02:27.05 | raylu | viber was kinda cool. data-based calling |
| 02:27.19 | Amarande | think the one that's all the rage these days is telegram ... which apparently has even started seriously eating into IRC's turf |
| 02:27.46 | Amarande | over at the Dark Jedi Brotherhood there's what seems an ever shrinking, ever quieter crowd of holdouts in our IRC chat, apparently everyone else went to telegram |
| 02:27.54 | Amarande | not sure what's so great about telegram, it looks pretty much like a skype clone to me |
| 02:28.12 | raylu | Telegram has an open API and protocol free for everyone. https://telegram.org/img/tl_card_open.gif |
| 02:28.15 | raylu | i'm sold |
| 02:28.18 | Rythal | they sha'll never pry irc from my cold dead hands |
| 02:28.24 | Amarande | raylu: but so does IRC :) |
| 02:28.30 | Amarande | and the IRC protocol has been a thing for decades |
| 02:28.33 | raylu | no, click the link |
| 02:29.34 | mckenziemc | clones Amarande, but without the fingers. |
| 02:29.41 | Amarande | apparently the thing about telegram is it's supposedly easier to use from mobile devices |
| 02:29.47 | Amarande | dear god do that few of us still have PCs :( |
| 02:30.55 | jleclanche | Alram: telegram does a decent job of being desktop-friendly too |
| 02:30.58 | jleclanche | Amarande: ^ |
| 02:31.12 | jleclanche | there's also https://matrix.org/ |
| 02:31.30 | Amarande | jleclanche: I'm more thinking along the lines of "why switch to it from irc" |
| 02:31.47 | jleclanche | from irc, no reason lol |
| 02:31.52 | jleclanche | they dont fulfill the same roles |
| 02:31.56 | jleclanche | irc has some future in ircv3 |
| 02:32.03 | raylu | crap, people still use twisted |
| 02:32.07 | jleclanche | but ... that's going at a snail's pace |
| 02:32.23 | jleclanche | matrix is the most promising xmpp contender out there right now |
| 02:32.40 | jleclanche | and telegram is a thing that's available and practical *now* as opposed to later |
| 02:33.11 | jleclanche | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10280155 |
| 02:33.12 | jleclanche | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10486541 |
| 02:33.13 | Amarande | ircv2 seems like it's been chugging along pretty well |
| 02:33.18 | jleclanche | no |
| 02:33.20 | jleclanche | it hasnt. |
| 02:33.50 | Amarande | other than that without extensive extensions it's purely plaintext, which is apparently held in ill regard now |
| 02:34.13 | jleclanche | that's not a thing |
| 02:34.33 | jleclanche | the problem isn't with plaintext, the problem is with unstructured data |
| 02:34.37 | jleclanche | json is plaintext |
| 02:34.47 | jleclanche | irc's parsing is horrible. |
| 02:35.00 | Amarande | a lot of these features seem like they're already implemented on networks like freenode, anyways |
| 02:35.06 | jleclanche | what features? |
| 02:35.47 | Stanzilla | are you really arguing with Amarande right now, jleclanche |
| 02:35.59 | jleclanche | yeah because this is a pretty big deal actually |
| 02:36.03 | Semlar | from my perspective he's arguing with himself |
| 02:36.27 | Amarande | jleclanche: I've seen sasl be a thing, and I've seen capability notifications |
| 02:36.53 | jleclanche | i dunno about cap notifications; sasl is a thing yes, but it's part of the protocol (ad hoc) |
| 02:37.04 | jleclanche | basic things like fetching the damn backlog |
| 02:37.20 | jleclanche | changing host without cycling |
| 02:37.54 | mckenziemc | i contest that, Semlar. |
| 02:38.28 | raylu | http://www.mattermost.org/ wow what |
| 02:38.38 | Amarande | some stuff on the other hand does seem kinda overblown, like do we really need message tags & metadata |
| 02:38.42 | jleclanche | mattermost is good stuff yeah |
| 02:38.48 | Amarande | we've done fine without tags and metadata on irc for 20+ years |
| 02:39.04 | jleclanche | Amarande: they're a framework to build other features in the spec, they're not there in a vacuum |
| 02:39.27 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:39.59 | jleclanche | fun fact, Amarande's actually a figment of my imagination |
| 02:40.06 | Semlar | i'd believe it |
| 02:40.11 | jleclanche | who said that? |
| 02:40.40 | jleclanche | Semlar: you know what's not a figment of my imagination? your horrible irc ui |
| 02:40.47 | Semlar | so rude |
| 02:40.54 | jleclanche | hurts most when it's true |
| 02:41.09 | Semlar | if it makes you feel any better it's just a plugin for firefox |
| 02:41.17 | jleclanche | it doesn't. it makes me feel worse |
| 02:41.44 | raylu | "contact the Zulip development discussion mailing list for help." oh the irony |
| 02:41.52 | jleclanche | haha |
| 02:42.03 | Amarande | here's a more puzzling one ... exactly why is there a need to change from CTCP to this "intents" thing which, in fact, actually *does* do the same thing that CTCP did |
| 02:42.13 | Amarande | just differently, so clients will need additional code to cope with it |
| 02:42.34 | raylu | who cares, ircv* won't be adopted anyway :) |
| 02:42.42 | jleclanche | yeah it will be |
| 02:42.51 | jleclanche | there's like 7 networks and almost all the clients backing it |
| 02:42.58 | Stanzilla | woah Semlar that is eye cancer ³ |
| 02:42.59 | raylu | oh? |
| 02:43.01 | jleclanche | and the intents stuff is not final |
| 02:43.09 | jleclanche | but it's meant to replace ctcp |
| 02:43.13 | Amarande | yeah, I just wonder what the purpose of it is |
| 02:43.22 | Semlar | nobody likes any of my UIs |
| 02:43.25 | Amarande | ctcp does the same thing, and it's already stably implemented in every existing client |
| 02:43.31 | Rythal | the only thing I want IRC to finally get is push notification so it's not such a battery drain :( |
| 02:43.39 | Amarande | so let's make a new way to do the same thing that clients will have to re-code for and possibly introduce bugs :| |
| 02:43.55 | raylu | that doesn't sound like a protocol feature, Rythal |
| 02:43.57 | jleclanche | ctcp's atrocious |
| 02:44.03 | jleclanche | im ok with it being replaced |
| 02:44.07 | jleclanche | it's already bug-prone so .. |
| 02:44.28 | jleclanche | but you can ask in #ircv3 if you want an answer. i dont really remember the logic behind it |
| 02:44.29 | raylu | oh, i guess it could be |
| 02:44.53 | raylu | i'm too stuck in the land of bouncers/screen sessions |
| 02:45.39 | Rythal | real time plain text communication leaves no time for client sleep without disconnection, it should be possible to have some sort of client sleep, where it catches up on request instead of disconnecting the moment the device goes into sleep mode. |
| 02:46.05 | Amarande | Rythal: the whole "catch up" thing has its own issues though |
| 02:46.14 | Amarande | ever turn off your tablet for more than a short time? |
| 02:46.32 | Amarande | yaaaaaay time to wait several minutes while it processes all the facebook push notifications |
| 02:46.36 | jleclanche | i don't think pushnot can be reasonably implemented in irc, without rewriting the entire protocol |
| 02:46.45 | Amarande | ... though maybe that just means I need to get something better than a single core tablet :S |
| 02:46.46 | jleclanche | and at that point just use a different one |
| 02:47.22 | Amarande | also this radical of a protocol shift makes it seem inevitable we'll get another round of "debian users will have to run testing whether they want to or not" with the resultant headaches in #debian |
| 02:47.31 | jleclanche | Amarande: that's app devs being idiots though. only the most recent x notifications should be processed, previous ones under-the-fold |
| 02:48.29 | Amarande | else it'll be time to accept that debian is awesome and rock solid but also too turtle-ish and move on to ubuntu like it seems most linux desktop users do. :S |
| 02:49.02 | mckenziemc | stop asking it to be something it's specifically not intended to be |
| 02:52.46 | Amarande | mckenziemc: yeah, it kinda does seem that eventually the way of things is going to be that traditional stable release based distros are going to pretty much become server-only beasts |
| 02:52.53 | Amarande | even windows has basically moved to rolling releases with 10 |
| 02:53.39 | jleclanche | i honestly do not understand how anyone, except debian maintainers, runs debian on home desktops |
| 02:54.24 | Amarande | it's actually pretty nice, apart from the occasional wart where something current isn't there because it didn't make the cut for the latest stable |
| 02:54.32 | raylu | i used to run debian as my main machine. debian in a VM is still my main development environment |
| 02:54.46 | Amarande | oh, and hibernate seems to have permissions issues in kde, but apparently that's been a thing with arch and ubuntu too so I'm pretty sure it's primarily a kde issue |
| 02:54.47 | jleclanche | raylu: arch for development, never, ever going back |
| 02:54.55 | jleclanche | hell arch is so nice i use it on prod |
| 02:54.56 | raylu | i ran debian testing, though |
| 02:55.06 | jleclanche | debian testing is "okay" |
| 02:55.11 | Amarande | yeah testing is nice and usually works pretty well for normal usage |
| 02:55.16 | raylu | arch seems pertty silly. "latest upstream stable, completely vanilla" is a bad idea on multiple levels |
| 02:55.26 | Amarande | apart from hiccups like the infamous X upgrade that broke everyone who needed proprietary gpu drivers |
| 02:55.34 | Amarande | (but yay I have a radeon so I wouldn't have to worry about that particular thing) |
| 02:55.56 | Amarande | oh, and most importantly the fact that testing doesn't get security updates :( |
| 02:56.21 | jleclanche | raylu: as someone who's both maintained packages and developed the apps/DEs, "completely vanilla" should be a thing everywhere |
| 02:56.26 | Amarande | although the packages in general are newer so I'm foggy on if it balances out |
| 02:56.40 | jleclanche | raylu: it's always debian's, fedora's and above all ubuntu's bullshit breaking things |
| 02:56.46 | raylu | why? i want my system to work together, not "the way the upstream maintainer intended" |
| 02:57.05 | raylu | and speaking of upstream, "stable" means a lot of different things to different people |
| 02:57.09 | jleclanche | your system will work together just fine without debian's patches |
| 02:57.29 | jleclanche | debian's patches are generally patches to make debian's other patches work |
| 02:57.42 | Amarande | hm, can you still switch to testing whenever just by switching apt sources and doing a dist-upgrade or does that break stuff? |
| 02:57.48 | jleclanche | and debian's other patches are patches to fix the fact your software is 3 years out of date |
| 02:57.59 | raylu | most of testing is not 3 years out of date... |
| 02:58.07 | Amarande | jleclanche: yeah usually they're made to backport security fixes |
| 02:58.12 | raylu | and i don't know what to say about your other claim besides the fact that it's obviously factually incorrect |
| 02:58.15 | jleclanche | *testing*, yes, but if you run testing, might as well run arch |
| 02:58.18 | Amarande | so you get the important security fixes without having to worry about feature changes breaking things |
| 02:58.31 | Amarande | arch uses which package manager? |
| 02:58.34 | jleclanche | you get the same, except you don't get all the hacks |
| 02:58.35 | jleclanche | pacman |
| 02:58.38 | raylu | no, i don't want "latest upstream stable" and i don't want "completely vanilla" and i want an easy way to downgrade packages |
| 02:58.52 | Amarande | yeah, I tend to stick to choosing between debian, ubuntu, or mint |
| 02:59.04 | Amarande | I tried a distro that didn't use apt once and it was horror |
| 02:59.19 | jleclanche | raylu: "completely vanilla" is the default, what's the reasoning behind wanting more? as in, what more do you want? |
| 02:59.19 | mckenziemc | you're a horror |
| 02:59.45 | raylu | i want a script that manages my ssl certs and slams them all together |
| 02:59.48 | Amarande | speaking of which, ubuntu gives far too much credit to redhat |
| 02:59.50 | Amarande | "Like all Debian-based distributions, software is installed in Ubuntu with APT. This is similar to yum, which is used by RedHat-based distributions." |
| 02:59.55 | Amarande | no, apt is not in any way similar to yum |
| 03:00.02 | raylu | i want fixes for the new versions of postman so that postman-admin works at all |
| 03:00.05 | Amarande | apt is a mature, full-featured package management system that is a pleasure to use |
| 03:00.22 | Amarande | yum, on the other hand, feels like using some v0.9 hack by comparison |
| 03:00.33 | Amarande | at least the last time I tried fedora this was so |
| 03:00.35 | raylu | and i absolutely do not want `python` to run python3 |
| 03:01.15 | Amarande | jleclanche: the trouble with arch is that most third-party software is built with RPM and/or DEB packages in mind |
| 03:01.32 | raylu | Amarande: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/DNF |
| 03:01.42 | Amarande | hell, even debian struggles these days on the desktop, because so many third-party .debs are built with Ubuntu in mind, and they're not quite the same |
| 03:02.00 | Amarande | like *cough* steam |
| 03:02.49 | jleclanche | raylu: ssl: that's what letsencrypt and other cert managers do; it's not part of the distro, you install it separately;; postman: why aren't these fixes upstreamed? if upstream is dead, should be forked if anyone's going to maintain it;; python: python 3 is the latest version. it's been a decade almost... let it run python 3 for christ sake, debian's the main reason python 2 is still seriously around |
| 03:03.13 | Kemayo | Mr_Rabies: I'm cool that way. |
| 03:03.20 | Gnarfoz | nice evasions all around, jleclanche |
| 03:03.21 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 03:03.27 | Amarande | but yeah, major changes get "fun" in #debian because people feel forced to use testing in order to keep up with the joneses, and #debian has a very strong dislike for the notion of using testing as your main OS |
| 03:03.36 | jleclanche | they're not evasions Gnarfoz, they're directly addressing the problems |
| 03:03.52 | Gnarfoz | first of all, letsencrypt does nothing so far |
| 03:03.59 | Gnarfoz | maybe you meant sslmate |
| 03:04.00 | raylu | jleclanche: no, systemwide trusted CA certs |
| 03:04.10 | Gnarfoz | (not to mention you didn't even understand what he meant) |
| 03:04.32 | raylu | jleclanche: postman: i don't know, but the point is debian-based distros have the only working postman-admin |
| 03:04.46 | jleclanche | this is a problem .... |
| 03:04.51 | Shirik | http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Regional/2015/11/23/woman-missing-10-yrs-internet-cafe/ |
| 03:04.53 | jleclanche | like it's a debian problem |
| 03:04.59 | raylu | jleclanche: i don't care how you feel about python3 should be. making `python` run python3 breaks everything in 2015, so i don't want it. i want a system that works |
| 03:05.04 | jleclanche | no lol |
| 03:05.14 | jleclanche | it doesn't "break everything in 2015", it breaks everything *on debian* |
| 03:05.29 | jleclanche | ive been running python3 as python for years now |
| 03:05.33 | raylu | and on fedora, gentoo, etc. |
| 03:05.39 | raylu | it breaks everything on every system but arch |
| 03:05.41 | jleclanche | and i'm a python dev, so i deal with python *all the time* |
| 03:06.01 | Gnarfoz | most likely, you being a python dev is the only reason you manage to |
| 03:06.18 | jleclanche | I don't go out and fix it. |
| 03:06.24 | raylu | by "python dev", do you mean you work on cpython |
| 03:06.25 | jleclanche | it just works by this point |
| 03:06.27 | raylu | or do you mean you write python code? |
| 03:06.37 | jleclanche | i write python code as full time jobs |
| 03:06.43 | raylu | same here |
| 03:06.51 | Amarande | jleclanche: legacy script languages are troublesome, especially if you have legacy scripts that aren't easily fixed to work with the new version |
| 03:06.52 | raylu | none of my scripts would work unless you changed the shebangs |
| 03:07.06 | raylu | because every system but arch assumes `python` is python2 |
| 03:07.26 | raylu | and changing that isn't solving anyone's problems |
| 03:07.38 | jleclanche | local scripts should use virtualenv anyway, and if they're your scripts, you can't really blame the distro, this is something you should fix ... |
| 03:07.53 | raylu | i don't want to hand someone a script and go "look, you should use a virtualenv anyway" |
| 03:07.57 | Gnarfoz | nice, shifting the blame again :D |
| 03:08.07 | raylu | again, i don't care how you feel about how you should set up virtualenvs or python3. i want a system that works |
| 03:08.16 | jleclanche | raylu: you're handing them out *your scripts* |
| 03:08.30 | jleclanche | you should make *your scripts* work with python 3, which has been out for the better part of a decade |
| 03:08.35 | raylu | most of them do |
| 03:08.41 | raylu | but we have os x users who only have python2 |
| 03:08.48 | raylu | i'm not going to walk them through setting up a virtualenv |
| 03:08.54 | raylu | i'm not going to get them to install python3 |
| 03:08.56 | jleclanche | so? it's easy as hell to write something that works on both py2+3 |
| 03:09.00 | raylu | i'm going to write #!/usr/bin/env python |
| 03:09.01 | jleclanche | and i really do mean easy as hell |
| 03:09.05 | raylu | and then it's going to work everywhere but arch |
| 03:09.06 | Amarande | mind you, it's probably not as bad with python as it is with, say, php |
| 03:09.19 | Amarande | php upgrades are a nightmare, especially with how many sites rely on third-party, sometimes commercial php scripts |
| 03:09.20 | raylu | you know what is even easier? writing one that works everywhere but arch |
| 03:09.41 | jleclanche | raylu: first of all, you need to get your facts straight, there's a lot more distros switching to py3 as default than arch |
| 03:09.43 | jleclanche | fedora and ubuntu |
| 03:09.52 | raylu | and i don't want to bother with making my 30-line python script 2+3 compatible |
| 03:09.55 | Amarande | raylu: http://web.mit.edu/humor/www/Computers/24.stage.software.test :) |
| 03:09.55 | Gnarfoz | "they're switching" doesn't sound like they have switched |
| 03:10.26 | jleclanche | i believe both are planned for the next release |
| 03:10.28 | Gnarfoz | turning your "facts" into "future facts" |
| 03:10.30 | raylu | the ubuntu LTS we have is certainly not switching :) |
| 03:10.32 | jleclanche | fedora im not sure, they might have switched already |
| 03:10.33 | ajmitch | jleclanche: switching to default doesn't mean they're switching what /usr/bin/python switched to. arch is anything but 'vanilla' in this case |
| 03:10.42 | jleclanche | ajmitch: sorry what? |
| 03:10.50 | Gnarfoz | -switched+points |
| 03:10.53 | Gnarfoz | I guess |
| 03:11.00 | ajmitch | right |
| 03:11.06 | jleclanche | erm |
| 03:11.10 | ajmitch | cannot type |
| 03:11.19 | Amarande | raylu: new LTS out next spring right? |
| 03:11.25 | jleclanche | ubpython points to whatever the default is, on any sane *vanilla* install |
| 03:11.39 | raylu | jleclanche: the newest python3 on xenial installs it at `python3` http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/amd64/python3-minimal/filelist |
| 03:11.39 | *** join/#wowuidev straddle (~thunderin@vagvlan536.1422.wlan.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu) |
| 03:11.57 | raylu | nothing depends on ubpython, so they can do whatever the hell they want without breaking anything. unlike arch. |
| 03:12.36 | jleclanche | and raylu i really have to repeat this: if the scripts you yourself write don't work with python 3, you can't bloody blame the distro, you're at fault. and you are *especially* at fault for not writing #!/usr/bin/env python, which is *require* to have your scripts work in a virtual environment |
| 03:12.50 | raylu | i _do_ write that |
| 03:12.51 | jleclanche | in other words, your scripts don't work in what is the default setup for any sane python dev |
| 03:12.55 | raylu | 19:09:00 raylu> i'm going to write #!/usr/bin/env python |
| 03:12.58 | raylu | 19:09:05 raylu> and then it's going to work everywhere but arch |
| 03:13.00 | jleclanche | right, I misread |
| 03:13.02 | jleclanche | sorry |
| 03:13.16 | raylu | and it's _because_ i write that that my code doesn't work in arch |
| 03:13.22 | jleclanche | no |
| 03:13.32 | jleclanche | it's because your code isn't compatible with the 6 latest versions of python |
| 03:13.47 | raylu | if your attitude is that every single python script should be written for 2+3, i encourage you to rewrite all my scripts |
| 03:14.03 | Amarande | but yeah, one big reason I haven't even tried arch is that I'd rather use aptitude than pacman |
| 03:14.04 | raylu | my code is compatible with the only versions of python that are installed on every single machine they need to run on |
| 03:14.15 | Amarande | let's face it, third party software comes in deb and rpm |
| 03:14.17 | raylu | and they take half as long to write and test as 2+3 compatible code |
| 03:14.20 | jleclanche | actually my attitude is that scripts should be written for 3, and you can #!/usr/bin/env python3 if you must, which will work on arch and debian just fine |
| 03:14.25 | Amarande | it does not come in glowing dots or whatever it is pacman eats :) |
| 03:14.27 | jleclanche | but if you NEED py2 |
| 03:14.32 | jleclanche | then yeah, write for 2+3, which isn't hard |
| 03:14.35 | raylu | again, we have os x users that don't have python3 |
| 03:14.43 | raylu | i absolutely do need py2 |
| 03:14.46 | raylu | what i don't need is py3 |
| 03:14.57 | Amarande | raylu: tell them they need to install the dependency? :| |
| 03:15.04 | jleclanche | no Amarande |
| 03:15.10 | raylu | why when i can instead tell them nothing and hand them a working script? |
| 03:15.15 | Amarande | jleclanche: yeah that would be too logical :) |
| 03:15.19 | jleclanche | no, Amarande |
| 03:15.26 | jleclanche | requiring py2 is fine in and of itself |
| 03:15.42 | jleclanche | what's not fine is blaming the distribution for a problem of compatibility with your own code |
| 03:15.59 | raylu | there are no compatability issues in any distros :) |
| 03:16.02 | raylu | except arch |
| 03:16.10 | raylu | and it's not like it's just my code that's broken |
| 03:16.41 | raylu | half of AUR broke with it too https://www.archlinux.org/news/python-is-now-python-3/ |
| 03:17.09 | Amarande | yeah, arch sounds kind of sid-like heh |
| 03:17.15 | jleclanche | I don't see your point raylu |
| 03:17.32 | jleclanche | what's in the aur is user stuff |
| 03:17.35 | raylu | the point is you can't blame just my code for being broken in arch |
| 03:17.42 | raylu | you have to blame everyone's code that broke |
| 03:17.46 | raylu | or you can admit that arch is at fault |
| 03:17.48 | jleclanche | uh, yeah, i do |
| 03:17.52 | Amarande | then again there are apparently people who run full-blown sid on their debian machines and are happy enough |
| 03:17.54 | raylu | regardless, if you want a working system, you can't use arch |
| 03:18.01 | raylu | i don't really care who's at fault |
| 03:18.07 | jleclanche | but "everyone" in 2010 is a very different everyone than in 2015 |
| 03:18.09 | raylu | i just want all the code to work |
| 03:18.12 | raylu | so i don't use arch |
| 03:18.28 | Amarande | jleclanche: doesn't arch rely on the AUR to provide a lot of software that would be actually maintained as officially part of the distro in something like debian or ubuntu? |
| 03:18.41 | jleclanche | *today* i can absolutely tell you that 99% of the code i encounter on a daily basis *both* as a developer and a maintainer |
| 03:18.43 | jleclanche | is python3-compatible |
| 03:18.53 | Amarande | so a major AUR hiccup seems like it would be a pretty major thing |
| 03:18.55 | jleclanche | this wasn't the case in 2010; arch switching helped a *lot* |
| 03:19.13 | jleclanche | Amarande: you're mistaken about what the aur is - it's more like the ubuntu PPAs |
| 03:19.21 | raylu | yes, and that's great for the ecosystem and all |
| 03:19.33 | raylu | did you also uninstall flash to get us to an html5-friendly world |
| 03:19.38 | raylu | or did you use it because you wanted a working system? |
| 03:19.40 | jleclanche | i actually did... |
| 03:19.54 | raylu | nice. i applaud you for enduring a broken internet |
| 03:19.55 | Amarande | yeah, I don't use flash either |
| 03:19.58 | jleclanche | twitch is the only site i use that still uses flash, i use livestreamer for it |
| 03:20.01 | jleclanche | "broken internet" my arse |
| 03:20.04 | raylu | but i wanted a working internet just as much as i want a working system |
| 03:20.11 | Amarande | in fact, when my hard disk died and I had to reinstall debian on my new ssd I even switched from google-chrome to chromium |
| 03:20.36 | Amarande | I figured why not, since I had had flash disabled in chrome for several months anyway |
| 03:20.42 | Gnarfoz | marks this purl log as "idealists vs pragmatists, episode 3441" |
| 03:20.49 | Amarande | and I think the only other really big thing google-chrome has that chromium doesn't is h.264 video support |
| 03:20.57 | Amarande | however, I haven't really seen much web content where that's vital |
| 03:21.00 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: xkcd774 |
| 03:21.13 | Amarande | and if there is, well, I can just install google-chrome |
| 03:21.22 | Amarande | choice is nice like that :) |
| 03:22.00 | Gnarfoz | I my emote already qualifies as the once-per-conversation invocation |
| 03:22.06 | Gnarfoz | +think |
| 03:22.14 | Gnarfoz | :P |
| 03:22.24 | jleclanche | raylu: look i don't know which year you're getting your facts from but in 2015, soon to be 2016, python 3 as a default is more than just usable. everything since python 3.3 has been very friendly to 2.x compatibility |
| 03:22.30 | Gnarfoz | nice, spam PMs on soundcloud |
| 03:23.08 | jleclanche | raylu: what you linked me about the switch is from 2010, that's *five years* ago. |
| 03:23.24 | raylu | yes, i realize it has gotten _better_ |
| 03:23.32 | jleclanche | not just better, fixed |
| 03:23.42 | raylu | but usable for me doesn't mean "99%" |
| 03:24.01 | raylu | that 1% of the internet that used flash kept it on my system too, you know |
| 03:24.20 | Amarande | amarande@kushiel:~$ python -V |
| 03:24.21 | Amarande | Python 2.7.9 |
| 03:24.28 | Amarande | ... wow, and jessie just came out last year |
| 03:24.45 | Amarande | (or was that feature freeze ... but yeah, it's been frozen for about a year now at least) |
| 03:25.12 | Amarande | yup, debian has both but you still have to type python3 for v3 |
| 03:26.03 | jleclanche | raylu: i think you're fundamentally misunderstanding what I'm saying here. it's not about percentages; it's about the fact that after this long, if you write a python script, you're expected to write it in python 3. and if you need py2 compatibility, it's not hard to write that in |
| 03:26.23 | Amarande | raylu: was the part of the internet that used flash actually important? |
| 03:26.28 | raylu | it's not hard, but it's not effortless, which is the problem |
| 03:26.34 | Amarande | I found after running chrome with flash disabled for nearly half a year that it wasn't |
| 03:27.06 | jleclanche | raylu: not only is it near-effortless, it'll get *you* into better shape when you do switch to py3. or do you intend to stick to py2 for 20 years more? |
| 03:27.13 | raylu | i honestly have no idea. someone linked me to http://iipimage.sourceforge.net/demo/ today. is this flash? probably |
| 03:27.36 | jleclanche | IIPZoom is flash based. IIPMooViewer uses HTML5 and javascript. JIIP is java based. |
| 03:27.38 | raylu | what? almost all of my code is python3. i'm in great shape :) |
| 03:27.53 | raylu | but sometimes i write code for systems that need 2, and when i do i don't care about writing it for 3 |
| 03:27.53 | jleclanche | okay... then i really don't understand what you're complaining about anymore |
| 03:27.59 | jleclanche | right.. |
| 03:28.07 | raylu | so i write it for 2 and it works on every system |
| 03:28.32 | raylu | i'm complaining about using a system like arch that is more concerned with being latest stable than working |
| 03:28.44 | raylu | (and that my code still doesn't work on arch) |
| 03:28.51 | Amarande | raylu: yeah that page is meant to showcase the fact that that IIP image thing can make use of multiple viewer technologies |
| 03:28.53 | jleclanche | write print() like in py3 when you write for py2, it works the same way. write *one* try/except import block and most of your compatibility problems are gone |
| 03:29.03 | raylu | no, it doesn't |
| 03:29.04 | jleclanche | deal in unicode and then yeah, tough, but that's just about the only hard bit |
| 03:29.05 | Amarande | IIPZoom and JIIP will both presumably die out pretty fast |
| 03:29.07 | raylu | print(a, b) prints a tuple in py2 |
| 03:29.18 | jleclanche | then import print_function if you must |
| 03:29.24 | raylu | i don't need to :) |
| 03:29.41 | Rythal | I run both python 2.7.10 and python 3.5.0 simultaniously >.> |
| 03:29.53 | raylu | i also don't need to figure out how to get dict.items to be an iterable and map to not be |
| 03:30.15 | raylu | all these problems i don't have - just working code :) |
| 03:30.21 | jleclanche | use the same functions, jesus what kind of script are you writing that need to care about these details? |
| 03:30.43 | raylu | map being/not-being an iterable has bit me dozens of times when i was first learning 3 |
| 03:30.48 | raylu | and i don't think i'm alone there... |
| 03:30.56 | raylu | close a db session before inspecting the elements? oops |
| 03:31.40 | jleclanche | im also noting that instead of writing 38 characters (from __future__ import print_function), you decide to write ~90 lines over half an hour to justify your position on this |
| 03:31.57 | raylu | ...wow |
| 03:32.03 | raylu | if the problem was as easy as fixing print, i would have done it |
| 03:32.10 | raylu | but you and i both know that 2+3 compatability is not about fixing print |
| 03:32.41 | jleclanche | the moment i suggest you write print(), you give me crap about tuples, what am I to think really? |
| 03:32.52 | raylu | 19:29:53 raylu> i also don't need to figure out how to get dict.items to be an iterable and map to not be |
| 03:33.22 | jleclanche | dict.items is iterable in both 2 and 3, the type just changes... what's the issue with it? |
| 03:33.29 | raylu | you were the one who brought up using print with parens, even though that's obviously not the problem |
| 03:34.05 | raylu | if you write py2 code that depends on random access via __getitem__ in .items()... |
| 03:34.24 | raylu | why do i need to explain this to you? surely you know that 2+3 compatability is not about fixing these 3 things |
| 03:34.42 | jleclanche | I was kinda about to say the same things |
| 03:34.56 | raylu | so i don't know why you're pretending it's a trivial matter |
| 03:35.24 | jleclanche | I'm honestly not pretending, and I should ask the same of you, why you pretend it's nontrivial - clearly we have a different definition of trivial |
| 03:35.53 | raylu | because writing it for 2+3 takes twice as long when you include testing and yields 0 benefit |
| 03:36.00 | raylu | unless you count "It works on arch" as a benefit |
| 03:36.34 | jleclanche | I think about versions, not distros... it's not just about "it works on arch" but also about "it works on any py3 venv", which isn't uncommon |
| 03:37.14 | raylu | heh, actually i remove the python->python3.x symlink in my venvs |
| 03:38.23 | jleclanche | raylu: i honestly think you're wasting more time than you would be if you didn't bother about this, and I'm almost certain that you using debian as a dev platform is part of the reason behind that -- i was the same way when i used ubuntu, and then it just got *so* much easier O_o |
| 03:38.38 | jleclanche | but do as you please, really |
| 03:40.00 | Amarande | hm, perhaps I will upgrade to testing |
| 03:40.11 | Amarande | (and amarande was never seen again? heh) |
| 03:40.32 | jleclanche | everyone will be holding their breath, Amarande. |
| 03:52.48 | mckenziemc | rolls back Amarande to infancy. |
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| 03:55.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 04:16.08 | kd3 | oh wow. blizz changed something with wow tokens yesterday |
| 04:16.22 | kd3 | averaging in the mid 30s for a while, peaked near 60k yesterday |
| 04:16.46 | Semlar | why do you think that's the result of something blizzard did |
| 04:19.11 | kd3 | spikes like this don't just happen: http://kaydeethree.net/i/token.png |
| 04:21.10 | mckenziemc | blizzard made thanksgiving break |
| 04:21.32 | Semlar | there was a spike just last week |
| 04:22.42 | Semlar | presumably more demand than supply |
| 04:22.52 | Shirik | what is the dashed line? |
| 04:22.55 | Shirik | volume? |
| 04:23.03 | kd3 | price change over time |
| 04:23.15 | Shirik | I want to see volume |
| 04:23.16 | raylu | a lot of people interested on accounts that got into alpha? |
| 04:23.19 | Shirik | but that's probably not possible |
| 04:23.44 | mckenziemc | sure it is Shirik |
| 04:23.46 | Semlar | hard to say what caused it, if the pool of tokens is small enough it might not actually take that much to cause this |
| 04:23.53 | mckenziemc | buy a million $ of tokens and flood the market |
| 04:24.36 | Semlar | all i know is the people who bought the token for real money and sold them at 58k could then turn around and buy 2 tokens when it bottomed out at 27k |
| 04:24.51 | Semlar | and still have gold left over |
| 04:26.31 | Semlar | i'm not actually sure how their selling system works, does someone have to actually pay the amount you're requesting for the token or does it balance it out somehow |
| 04:26.55 | kd3 | if you're quoted a price, wow will give that to you, regardless of how the market moves when it actually sells |
| 04:27.07 | kd3 | if that involves creating/destroying gold, so be it |
| 04:27.14 | Semlar | so if you put a token up for 100k would you eventually get 100k for it? |
| 04:27.25 | Semlar | or do you not have control over what it's being sold for |
| 04:27.39 | Semlar | do they give you the price |
| 04:27.43 | mckenziemc | ^ |
| 04:27.46 | kd3 | you don't have control. the server says 'you can sell now and get x gold' |
| 04:27.51 | Semlar | i see |
| 04:28.52 | straddle | i wonder if people will start playing the wow token market like ah |
| 04:29.19 | straddle | although obviously options to âplayâ it are limited |
| 04:29.24 | Semlar | with enough gold i think you could manipulate it |
| 04:30.09 | straddle | yeah its probably a question of choosing timing |
| 04:32.13 | mckenziemc | you can't resell tokens by the way |
| 04:32.46 | mckenziemc | so unless your idea of playing the market is having tokens saved ahead of time for the next 3 years i don't think you can do much |
| 04:32.56 | Semlar | no, but you can buy a token for cash, sell it when it's high and use that gold to buy multiple tokens |
| 04:33.22 | mckenziemc | which just gets you prepaid time for your own account |
| 04:33.59 | Semlar | for less than the cost of a month of gametime |
| 04:34.44 | Semlar | it would take an enormous price fluctuation to do that though |
| 04:35.00 | Semlar | like the one yesterday |
| 04:36.51 | mckenziemc | the volume is inherently so limited you'd get better payoff with conventional AH-working and just spending gold on tokens |
| 04:37.47 | Semlar | or just working a real job |
| 04:38.23 | mckenziemc | context context context |
| 04:38.32 | straddle | haha true |
| 04:40.07 | Simca | best legion change |
| 04:40.34 | Simca | the client FINALLY doesn't create 5+ empty folders in your WTF directory |
| 04:40.39 | Simca | with names like (null) and shit |
| 04:40.45 | Simca | every folder in the beta install has a file in it |
| 04:40.47 | Stanzilla | thx baby jesus |
| 04:41.38 | Fisker | don't be mad Simca |
| 04:41.39 | Fisker | <3 |
| 04:44.30 | mckenziemc | finally? wasn't it like that in past expansions? |
| 04:45.41 | Stanzilla | it broke in wod |
| 04:45.53 | Stanzilla | or mop |
| 04:45.55 | Stanzilla | dont remember |
| 04:58.15 | kd3 | wait, what? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZwhNFOn4ik |
| 05:00.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~Xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 05:03.21 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@104-180-66-29.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:17.48 | *** join/#wowuidev straddle (~thunderin@hntvlan569.3395.wlan.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) |
| 05:36.28 | Simca | Semlar. |
| 05:36.30 | Simca | "C_NamePlate.GetNamePlateForUnit", |
| 05:36.30 | Simca | "C_NamePlate.GetNamePlateSizes", |
| 05:36.30 | Simca | "C_NamePlate.GetNamePlates", |
| 05:36.30 | Simca | "C_NamePlate.GetNumNamePlateMotionTypes", |
| 05:36.30 | Simca | "C_NamePlate.SetNamePlateSizes", |
| 05:36.59 | kd3 | o_O |
| 05:40.04 | Simca | Removed: UnitIsTapped, UnitIsTappedByAllThreatList, UnitIsTappedByPlayer. Added: UnitIsTapDenied |
| 05:40.07 | Simca | interesting |
| 05:40.39 | kd3 | I noticed that most (all?) of the demon hunter starter area mobs didn't get tapped |
| 05:40.49 | kd3 | I could be misremembering though |
| 05:41.08 | kd3 | whee, this beer's got a bit more oomph than I was expecting |
| 05:41.40 | Gethe | they did say durring Blizzcon that they were redoing much of how tapping is handled |
| 05:42.05 | kd3 | there was a big, big thread in warlords general about how tap needed to die |
| 05:42.10 | kd3 | guess they finally listened |
| 05:42.22 | Simca | i wonder what 'tapdenied' is |
| 05:42.34 | Simca | and what it would mean if it was false |
| 05:42.41 | mckenziemc | vignettes that can't be tapped? |
| 05:43.07 | Simca | well the removal of 'unitistapped' makes me think everything can't be tapped |
| 05:45.18 | Simca | messages in messageframe now have IDs and can have their fontstrings pulled by ID |
| 05:45.23 | Simca | that is pretty neat |
| 05:46.28 | *** join/#wowuidev ShadniX (dagger@p5794185E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:59.57 | kd3 | hm. I like logging in and just getting [Apexis Crystal]x38 out of nowhere |
| 06:00.14 | Mr_Rabies | generally i think that means it was "sent" via postmaster |
| 06:00.38 | Mr_Rabies | that's why the currency ones never actually have the currency, i think? |
| 06:00.50 | kd3 | no mail in the mailbox though |
| 06:01.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (jporterf@174-126-149-37.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 06:02.16 | mckenziemc | *makes sure Amarande isn't here* Blizzard has degraded to the point where they give us stuff just for logging in now! |
| 06:05.42 | Torhal | Simca: Their API naming conventions hurt me. It's a Nameplate, not a NamePlate. |
| 06:05.45 | Torhal | headdesks. |
| 06:06.09 | mckenziemc | hurts Torhal too. |
| 06:06.32 | Simca | Torhal: Darnassis |
| 06:06.34 | Torhal | sends mckenziemc into WoW UI code to battle XML. |
| 06:06.37 | Torhal | Simca: WAT |
| 06:06.50 | Simca | Draeni, Dranei, HODE, Aliance |
| 06:06.55 | Simca | Deephome |
| 06:06.55 | Torhal | Oh, yeah. |
| 06:06.58 | Simca | Deepholm |
| 06:07.05 | Torhal | There are still fucked-up Archaeology API names. |
| 06:07.24 | Simca | there are a ridiculous number of typos in the new spells and quests |
| 06:07.26 | Torhal | I still can't believe they fixed the map saying Garnison. |
| 06:07.38 | Simca | THE MAP. |
| 06:07.45 | Simca | somebody had to look at that |
| 06:07.47 | Simca | and render it |
| 06:07.49 | Simca | saying garnison |
| 06:07.52 | Simca | sigh |
| 06:08.34 | Simca | it's still baffling how they haven't managed to integrate a spell checker into their data editing software after 10 fucking years |
| 06:08.37 | Torhal | Simca: This is a good one, though, form the 7.0 diff |
| 06:08.39 | Torhal | - -- Temporary Hack (Temporary meaning 6 yrs, haha) |
| 06:08.39 | Torhal | + -- Temporary Hack (Temporary meaning 11 yrs, haha) |
| 06:08.46 | Simca | LOL |
| 06:14.16 | mckenziemc | poor wild turkey |
| 06:14.21 | mckenziemc | 127714 overkill :( |
| 06:17.39 | mckenziemc | Simca: time for a BlizzSpellingSucks addon? |
| 06:18.11 | Simca | no, most of it is in the data |
| 06:21.01 | raylu | Torhal: have a link to the diff? |
| 06:21.33 | Torhal | raylu: https://www.townlong-yak.com/ -> Tools -> FrameXML Archive |
| 06:23.30 | Mr_Rabies | aww |
| 06:23.39 | Mr_Rabies | you don't get any loot from kazzak unless you're level 100 |
| 06:23.43 | Mr_Rabies | not even felblight :< |
| 06:23.47 | Mr_Rabies | you do, however, get 1000 apexis |
| 06:28.20 | raylu | Torhal: was kinda hoping for a link to the actual file |
| 06:32.50 | mckenziemc | i think he was summarizing multiple, raylu ;) |
| 06:37.31 | raylu | nope, it's here https://www.townlong-yak.com/framexml/20756/WorldMapFrame.lua/diff#699 |
| 06:38.00 | mckenziemc | o.o |
| 06:38.53 | mckenziemc | arguably still true though :) |
| 06:50.22 | *** join/#wowuidev aretecode (~aretecode@104.156.228.111) |
| 07:14.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~anything@unaffiliated/yoshimo) |
| 07:22.50 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (42f951d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.249.81.210) |
| 07:36.07 | *** join/#wowuidev VIad (~Vlad@cm-84.213.146.58.getinternet.no) |
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| 11:09.54 | Semlar | temporarily hacks simca |
| 11:15.31 | karl_w_w | temporarily hacks Semlar into hundreds of pieces |
| 11:15.46 | Semlar | you better clean that up |
| 11:35.04 | Gnarfoz | hacks the hundres of pieces into thousands of pieces |
| 11:35.06 | Gnarfoz | there |
| 11:53.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (quassel@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:feae:af75) |
| 12:17.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~Funkeh`@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 12:56.34 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~p3lim@unaffiliated/p3lim) |
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| 13:18.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.23.76) |
| 13:18.36 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 13:20.59 | karl_w_w | http://support.amd.com/en-us/download/desktop?os=Windows%2010%20-%2064 |
| 13:21.02 | karl_w_w | crimson is out |
| 13:42.37 | *** join/#wowuidev karl_w_w (~karl_w_w@110-175-132-56.tpgi.com.au) |
| 14:00.16 | p3lim | Is that replacing Catalyst? |
| 14:02.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Arrow|work (~Arrowmast@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 14:04.49 | karl_w_w | yes |
| 14:05.27 | karl_w_w | http://www.smh.com.au/world/fighter-jet-goes-down-in-flames-near-syrian-border-20151124-gl71gs.html |
| 14:22.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~Ressy@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 15:11.35 | p3lim | Are they removing raid buffs in Legion? I see they've removed the consolidated tray from the interface |
| 15:11.44 | Gnarfoz | it certainly looks that way. |
| 15:12.53 | p3lim | Also looks like they moved nameplates to FrameXML |
| 15:13.22 | Maldivia | about time |
| 15:17.25 | Rythal | i'm still a lil offput that they are caving so much it seems... we knew from the start they were throwing every bone into legion they could to win people over... but... the zombie queen as warcheif :/ that's hard to swallow |
| 15:17.48 | Stanzilla | Legion is the community service xpac |
| 15:18.03 | Stanzilla | also thanks for spoilers :p |
| 15:18.26 | Gnarfoz | "caving" |
| 15:19.00 | Gnarfoz | thank god they're finally moving the story forward again |
| 15:20.08 | Rythal | they are moving it forward without doing anything with current story, guy has had no chance to do anything and replaced by guy just because of popularity by community? (trying to rewrite spoiler free ;/ lol) |
| 15:20.41 | Gnarfoz | yeah, no thanks. this seems like something you'd want to discuss with Amarande |
| 15:20.52 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 15:21.03 | Stanzilla | haha |
| 15:21.34 | Gnarfoz | taking bets: can I get some work done in the next 100 minutes, or not |
| 15:21.41 | Rythal | no |
| 15:21.42 | Stanzilla | no |
| 15:22.57 | Gnarfoz | you know me too well :( |
| 15:23.08 | Semlar | maybe |
| 15:23.37 | p3lim | Well |
| 15:23.50 | p3lim | Nameplates aren't Lua-side |
| 15:23.57 | p3lim | But lots of stuff has been exposed, which is nice |
| 15:24.19 | Fisker | hugtackles Lopeppeppy |
| 15:24.38 | Semlar | what do you mean, aside from the portion of the nameplate you actually click on it's all part of the interface |
| 15:25.08 | Gethe | the visible part of nameplates is lua side |
| 15:25.25 | Semlar | in point of fact, with the introduction of unit IDs for nameplates it should be possible to completely reproduce them as unit frames |
| 15:26.04 | p3lim | I meant FrameXML |
| 15:26.23 | Semlar | look under the blizzard addons |
| 15:26.55 | p3lim | I've looked at it |
| 15:27.21 | p3lim | Pretty much every file there is for the new HUD |
| 15:27.32 | p3lim | Except for Blizzard_NamePlates.* |
| 15:27.42 | Gethe | when a namplate is created an event fires that provides a blank frame from which to build on |
| 15:28.07 | Semlar | https://www.townlong-yak.com/framexml/20756/Blizzard_NamePlates/Blizzard_NamePlates.lua |
| 15:28.20 | p3lim | Right, the creation is handled by CompactUnitFrame, I see it now |
| 15:30.55 | Gnarfoz | amazing times. 11 years later, we finally get nameplates that might be properly modifiable |
| 15:30.57 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 15:31.14 | Fisker | yay |
| 15:31.23 | Kalroth | it was on their todo list |
| 15:31.34 | VIad | what am I looking at... |
| 15:31.41 | VIad | is it Jesus incarnated as Lua? |
| 15:32.38 | Semlar | i can't wait to play with them |
| 15:33.01 | VIad | beta starts soon. hope someone gets an invite to export the dbc files and lua files |
| 15:33.31 | Gnarfoz | uhm VIad |
| 15:33.34 | Gnarfoz | under which rock have you been |
| 15:33.35 | p3lim | VIad: It's already out |
| 15:33.44 | VIad | I meant that someone gets an invite :p |
| 15:33.44 | Semlar | those are from legion |
| 15:33.50 | Gnarfoz | the UI has been out since the weekend |
| 15:33.54 | Rythal | beta started on friday.. and some people have invites |
| 15:34.03 | p3lim | Don't need an invite to extract the interface files |
| 15:34.03 | Gnarfoz | *Saturday |
| 15:34.11 | VIad | knowing my luck regardless of what I only get beta from wowinterface addon author programme |
| 15:34.12 | Gnarfoz | (for some reason, foxlit doesn't have the first build) |
| 15:34.37 | VIad | I'll try get my hands on the beta installer and see if I can install the game then |
| 15:35.07 | p3lim | VIad: You can't without an invite |
| 15:35.11 | VIad | :< |
| 15:35.24 | Rythal | did they fix the b.net client to stop allowing command line installations? |
| 15:35.24 | p3lim | But you can pull the dbc files from their servers |
| 15:35.27 | Gnarfoz | VIad: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1822797-Legion-Alpha-Beta-General-Discussion?p=37396891#post37396891 |
| 15:35.29 | Gnarfoz | p3lim: nonsense |
| 15:35.47 | *** join/#wowuidev straddle (~thunderin@165.123.154.157) |
| 15:35.47 | Gnarfoz | Rythal: it says "sorry, you're not invited to play this game, yet" -- unless you do what I just linked |
| 15:35.48 | p3lim | Gnarfoz: Tried that, doesn't work without errors |
| 15:35.53 | VIad | Gnarfoz: it's true but my noobish skills requires me to have the data files locally and extract them that way |
| 15:35.54 | Gnarfoz | p3lim: it works fine |
| 15:36.04 | Gnarfoz | VIad: my link will give them to you |
| 15:36.07 | p3lim | Gnarfoz: Give me the strings then :D |
| 15:36.14 | Gnarfoz | what strings? |
| 15:36.28 | p3lim | https://gist.github.com/p3lim/9c24602eba96950b3481 |
| 15:36.39 | Gnarfoz | errr |
| 15:36.57 | Gnarfoz | you want me to run "strings" on wowb-64.exe? |
| 15:37.03 | p3lim | Yup |
| 15:37.16 | p3lim | Don't mind the rest of the stuff, that's for my diff files |
| 15:37.28 | Gnarfoz | (what does that give you that's not in the interface extract? oO) |
| 15:37.52 | p3lim | A full list of API, usage and events |
| 15:38.09 | Gnarfoz | if you want the UI extract for now: https://geektour.de/~smallbrain/wow/legion/BlizzardInterfaceCode.20756.7z |
| 15:38.18 | p3lim | Already have that |
| 15:38.33 | p3lim | https://github.com/tomrus88/CASCExplorer |
| 15:38.42 | VIad | we are haxors, Gnarfoz |
| 15:39.02 | Gnarfoz | if you have the files, why don't you just extract the exe from it? oO |
| 15:39.07 | Gnarfoz | I'm baffled by your approach |
| 15:39.09 | p3lim | I only have the dbc files |
| 15:40.12 | Gnarfoz | p3lim: https://geektour.de/~smallbrain/wow/legion/strings64.txt.gz https://geektour.de/~smallbrain/wow/legion/strings32.txt.gz |
| 15:40.22 | p3lim | Thanks |
| 15:40.40 | Gnarfoz | just in case they're different (the exe file sizes differ by almost 10 MiB) |
| 15:41.03 | p3lim | I always run it on the 64-bit version |
| 15:41.15 | p3lim | For no reason :p |
| 15:41.19 | Gnarfoz | shrugs |
| 15:41.36 | Gnarfoz | what was your trouble with Nik's way? |
| 15:41.53 | Semlar | what's a reward pack |
| 15:42.14 | p3lim | I would get crashing errors from the bnet client |
| 15:42.34 | Gnarfoz | mh. weird |
| 15:43.07 | Semlar | o.o there's a bunch of nameplate cvars |
| 15:43.12 | Gnarfoz | Stanzilla: did you do a full extractinterfacefiles code on the 20740 build? |
| 15:44.35 | Semlar | "The distance from the camera that nameplates will reach their maximum alpha." |
| 15:44.56 | Gnarfoz | that sounds promising |
| 15:45.07 | p3lim | What's the CVar name? |
| 15:45.11 | Gnarfoz | so your character doesn't disappear in a sea of nameplates while tanking a bunch of mobs |
| 15:45.17 | Semlar | nameplateMaxAlpha |
| 15:45.22 | Semlar | there's also one for scale |
| 15:45.35 | Semlar | and insets from the edge of the screen that the nameplates will be clamped to |
| 15:46.15 | Stanzilla | Gnarfoz: nah |
| 15:46.21 | Stanzilla | but cdn dump is the same |
| 15:46.22 | Semlar | oops i meant nameplateMaxAlphaDistance |
| 15:47.12 | Guest60243 | nameplate unit id's are limited to 1...30? |
| 15:47.45 | p3lim | Guest3125: Source? |
| 15:47.51 | Semlar | wrong guest |
| 15:48.04 | p3lim | -.- |
| 15:48.06 | Semlar | ^_^ |
| 15:48.11 | Fisker | Guest3125 is a fake guest |
| 15:48.22 | Semlar | is that you TOM |
| 15:48.24 | Stanzilla | Guest60243 is just tom |
| 15:48.24 | Stanzilla | :D |
| 15:48.25 | Stanzilla | yes |
| 15:48.29 | Semlar | why can't you get a real name |
| 15:48.44 | Semlar | i'm just assuming every guest is TOM_RUS at this point |
| 15:48.55 | Stanzilla | I memorized the number by now |
| 15:49.02 | Semlar | is it really the same number |
| 15:49.05 | Stanzilla | yes |
| 15:49.34 | Semlar | so this is like a setting in the client? |
| 15:49.47 | Semlar | y u do dis |
| 15:50.19 | Stanzilla | what happens to the 31st nameplate? |
| 15:50.21 | Stanzilla | badluckson.jpg? |
| 15:50.29 | Semlar | doesn't get a unit ID i suppose |
| 15:50.51 | Semlar | i wouldn't be surprised if there's a cap but how do you know it's 30 |
| 15:51.25 | Guest60243 | http://i.imgur.com/Sk2rgks.png |
| 15:51.42 | Stanzilla | I was about to say, it's tom so probably reverse engineering |
| 15:51.44 | Stanzilla | but there you go |
| 15:51.56 | Semlar | well yeah, but i wanted more info |
| 15:52.04 | Gnarfoz | Stanzilla: hm? which cdn dump? I just want it for the collection (or maybe foxlit wants it for his collection? I'm amazed he left a gap! ^^) |
| 15:52.26 | Stanzilla | Gnarfoz: just everything unpacked straight from the cdn |
| 15:52.36 | Stanzilla | straight outta cdn |
| 15:52.40 | Stanzilla | in your cinemas soon |
| 15:52.41 | Semlar | so they have to hard code the unit IDs? |
| 15:52.56 | Gnarfoz | Stanzilla: yeah, but where to get that for 20740? that's not on the CDN anymore, is it? |
| 15:53.10 | Stanzilla | Gnarfoz: downloaded it when it was |
| 15:53.25 | p3lim | Because of how they're dynamically created within FrameXML now, I'd guess that there won't ever exist more than 30 unitframes at once |
| 15:53.41 | p3lim | But they have added some priority system to the game |
| 15:54.04 | Semlar | i mean 30 units is a decent amount |
| 15:54.04 | Gnarfoz | Stanzilla: I get the feeling we're not talking about the same thing xD |
| 15:54.13 | p3lim | https://github.com/Gethe/wow-ui-source/blob/beta/FrameXML/Bindings.xml#L715-L727 |
| 15:54.16 | Stanzilla | Gnarfoz: ok, what are you looking for? :D |
| 15:54.16 | Semlar | if it's prioritized based on distance or unit type or something it's probably fine |
| 15:54.25 | Gnarfoz | Stanzilla: the FrameXML.old thing you linked is only 1 part of what ExtractInterfaceFiles Code extracts |
| 15:54.27 | p3lim | Semlar: ^ might be related |
| 15:54.33 | Gnarfoz | the addons, GlueXML and so on are all missing |
| 15:54.41 | Stanzilla | yeah because I did not zip them |
| 15:54.53 | Gnarfoz | that's why I wanted to ask if you have the full dump still lying around :D |
| 15:54.56 | Stanzilla | yes |
| 15:55.24 | Gnarfoz | gimme! :D |
| 15:55.35 | Semlar | this HOLD_TARGETING makes it sound like it cycles through targets while holding down the key |
| 15:55.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~Xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 15:55.51 | Stanzilla | Gnarfoz: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/lf58v6mz62ojjc7/Interface.7z?dl=0 |
| 15:56.18 | Gnarfoz | thanks, I'll grab that when I'm home <3 |
| 15:56.25 | Guest60243 | actually, may be it's not limited to 1...30, there's other place where it does a loop, and I think it can go > 30 here |
| 15:56.56 | Stanzilla | so 1.30 is hardcoded and above that dynamically created? |
| 15:57.20 | Semlar | it's possible we won't be able to use unit IDs greater than 30 ourselves but the game can keep making nameplates |
| 15:57.42 | Semlar | i kind of doubt they'd lose the functionality to make nameplates for every unit on screen |
| 15:59.29 | p3lim | I wonder how they're handling repurposing of frames and IDs |
| 15:59.40 | p3lim | If they are at all |
| 15:59.49 | Semlar | there are fights with more than 5 boss units, but since there are only 5 boss unit IDs you can't access them until one of the previous ones has died to make room |
| 16:00.19 | Gnarfoz | those fights suck |
| 16:01.32 | Semlar | there's a bunch of "spectator" unit IDs here |
| 16:01.48 | Stanzilla | arena |
| 16:01.49 | Semlar | is that for like official arena games? |
| 16:01.52 | Stanzilla | yes |
| 16:05.36 | *** join/#wowuidev g0urra (~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra) |
| 16:15.58 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (~harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 16:16.24 | harl | wuff wuff |
| 16:20.37 | *** join/#wowuidev adys (~jleclanch@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 16:22.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~Funkeh`@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 16:23.30 | VIad | good guy ilfak guilfanov, making a freeware edition of ida :) |
| 16:24.21 | *** join/#wowuidev jleclanche (~jleclanch@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 16:27.32 | Torhal | VIad: ? |
| 16:27.53 | VIad | disassembler software. has a freeware version for scrubs like me to try out and use. :D |
| 16:29.40 | fewyn | [11:29:20] "Brgrggrgl Mark II" (Submarine) has been destroyed. |
| 16:29.42 | fewyn | rip |
| 16:31.21 | VIad | fewyn: rip |
| 16:35.16 | mckenziemc | fewyn: got the printer working yet? |
| 16:41.11 | Rythal | points at the sinking sub, utters "HA HA" |
| 16:41.34 | fewyn | no mckenziemc today is my first day off in a week |
| 16:41.41 | fewyn | i might finish it today |
| 16:41.46 | fewyn | i'm on step 17 of 30 |
| 16:44.24 | straddle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IschF-ihjS0&feature=youtu.be |
| 16:44.31 | straddle | whoops |
| 16:44.34 | straddle | wrong channel lol |
| 16:54.10 | Semlar | p3lim: If set, lock to in-combat targets when starting from an in-combat target |
| 16:54.34 | Semlar | If set, allow player to hold button to highlight next target |
| 16:54.38 | Torhal | nameplates the shit out of Semlar. |
| 16:55.00 | Semlar | "TargetPriorityIncludeBehind" If set, include target's behind the player in priority target selection |
| 16:55.01 | Ressy | is that your version of hell? |
| 16:55.23 | Semlar | i guess they've added a solution for people complaining about tab targeting |
| 16:56.10 | Torhal | Ressy: Naw. If that was my intent, I'd make him be a minimap POI bisected by a ScrollFrame-cropped Nameplate. |
| 16:56.18 | Semlar | and you can set it to not target units that are out of combat |
| 16:56.20 | p3lim | I like that |
| 16:57.48 | Semlar | if you're targeting an in-combat target, at any rate |
| 16:58.35 | p3lim | SetNamePlateSizes(width, height) |
| 16:58.42 | p3lim | I suppose that's the clickable frame |
| 16:58.44 | Semlar | i'm assuming that's for resizing the clickable portion |
| 16:59.21 | p3lim | Tapping API is gone |
| 16:59.27 | Semlar | i'd really like a way to do something like make it so you can click through friendly nameplates while still being able to click on enemies |
| 16:59.34 | p3lim | UnitIsTapDenied(unitId) is a new one |
| 17:00.06 | Semlar | because i like seeing friendly nameplates, but i don't want them getting in the way |
| 17:00.44 | p3lim | Lost of new functions for getting quest-related info by questId |
| 17:00.52 | p3lim | Or added to existing ones |
| 17:01.29 | p3lim | :SetModelAlpha(alpha) |
| 17:01.41 | p3lim | quite a few new model methods too |
| 17:01.51 | p3lim | :SetDesaturation(strength) |
| 17:04.56 | Gnarfoz | znf: read the last 22 minutes of this channel, and rejoice |
| 17:05.17 | Semlar | model:SetPitch() model:SetRoll() |
| 17:05.21 | znf | I'm too lazy |
| 17:05.23 | znf | tl;dr-it |
| 17:05.43 | znf | ah |
| 17:05.43 | znf | doting |
| 17:05.44 | p3lim | Full list of usage changes pulled from strings: https://gist.github.com/p3lim/f3ad2c9090e5eb859f20/revisions |
| 17:05.44 | znf | nice |
| 17:06.04 | p3lim | I'll format it and post it on the forums once Cairenn makes them :) |
| 17:06.44 | Semlar | GetAccountCharacterInfo(index) |
| 17:08.38 | Semlar | 2 functions for something called a MapInset |
| 17:09.12 | p3lim | Still need to get an invite to do full API and event changes |
| 17:09.45 | Semlar | i wonder what GetQuestInfo returns |
| 17:10.05 | p3lim | Couldn't see it used anywhere in the interface |
| 17:11.01 | Semlar | GetUICameraInfo(uiCameraID) |
| 17:12.45 | Guest60243 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:12.56 | Semlar | quest name, description |
| 17:13.00 | Guest60243 | name, description soemtihng? |
| 17:13.10 | Semlar | objectives possibly |
| 17:13.23 | Semlar | kind of doubt it would be one string though |
| 17:13.31 | p3lim | The AdventureMap API has a similar function: |
| 17:13.31 | p3lim | questTitle, descriptionText, objectiveText = C_AdventureMap.GetQuestInfo(self.questID) |
| 17:13.49 | Semlar | then again |
| 17:15.12 | Semlar | hmm if that's part of C_AdventureMap it's probably only going to return data for an "adventure map" |
| 17:15.38 | Semlar | i'm pretty sure you can get all of that out of the quest tooltip anyway |
| 17:16.16 | p3lim | Would eliminate the tooltip scanning tho, always nice |
| 17:16.24 | Semlar | i suppose the question is what is an adventure map |
| 17:16.34 | p3lim | Have you played D3? |
| 17:16.42 | Semlar | yes |
| 17:16.58 | p3lim | Basically the POI stuff on the world map for bounties and such |
| 17:17.19 | p3lim | They showed an image of it at blizzcon |
| 17:18.16 | Gnarfoz | indeed |
| 17:19.09 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (~harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 17:19.39 | Semlar | wow there appear to be a ton of model functions that don't have "usage:" texts |
| 17:19.57 | Semlar | assuming these are what i think they are |
| 17:21.45 | Semlar | http://pastebin.com/nWcZzhix |
| 17:24.18 | p3lim | Semlar: http://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/488872.jpg |
| 17:24.22 | p3lim | That is the AdventureMap |
| 17:24.48 | Semlar | i see |
| 17:25.20 | Semlar | these might just be internal functions |
| 17:26.10 | Guest60243 | I think those are scenescripts? |
| 17:26.27 | Alram | hey Semlar werent you working on that fancy perspective minimap |
| 17:26.31 | Alram | or was that someone else |
| 17:26.39 | Semlar | i moved on to watching netflix |
| 17:27.42 | Torhal | Just stay on Netflix, Semlar. All you do here is crush dreams. |
| 17:28.10 | Semlar | sorry torhal |
| 17:28.47 | Torhal | I very much doubt it. You stroll in here with your fancy toys, saying "Look what you're never going to have!" |
| 17:29.00 | Torhal | Then, the maniacal laughter that's reserved for a Mad Scientist. |
| 17:29.30 | Ressy | and you. |
| 17:30.08 | p3lim | perspective minimap? |
| 17:30.10 | Torhal | Ressy: ? |
| 17:30.12 | p3lim | I've been gone too long |
| 17:30.25 | Ressy | Torhal: maniacal laughter for a mad scientist. |
| 17:30.31 | Ressy | You go a little mad at times. :P |
| 17:30.35 | Torhal | :O |
| 17:31.40 | Guest60243 | p3lim, in that list of have tons of "live" stuff that is considered new in legion |
| 17:36.25 | p3lim | Mixins are quite cool |
| 17:36.31 | p3lim | Although I very rarely use XML |
| 17:39.50 | Semlar | http://gfycat.com/FaithfulBothCleanerwrasse here p3lim |
| 17:40.16 | p3lim | Heh, cool |
| 17:40.19 | Semlar | i was just teasing torhal with it |
| 17:40.47 | Torhal | Semlar: I don't play WoW, so no you weren't. |
| 17:40.56 | Semlar | :( |
| 17:41.03 | Rythal | winces again :( |
| 17:41.47 | Semlar | well if i can't tease torhal then what's the point |
| 17:41.51 | Torhal | My WoW experiences, aside from immediately following a new expansion, consist of "Well, fuck. That didn't do it." and /reloadui |
| 17:42.01 | p3lim | :D |
| 17:42.19 | Rythal | Heyyyy that sounds like my WoW playtime! |
| 17:42.32 | Rythal | tho, I just use /reload and not /reloadui |
| 17:42.49 | Torhal | You should totally use /console reloadui |
| 17:43.16 | p3lim | I press backspace :] |
| 17:43.26 | Torhal | o.O |
| 17:43.53 | Rythal | tho, I guess that's not allll my playtime, sometimes it's getting spammed by so many debugging messages at once to the point it crashes WoW and I need to reload the game entirely. |
| 17:44.09 | Torhal | ... |
| 17:44.27 | p3lim | I don't think you're doing it right |
| 17:45.03 | Rythal | I like putting Alon-zee into random places just to see when it will happen.. and finding out it happens too often |
| 17:45.23 | fewyn | so what's everyone doing for turkeygiving |
| 17:45.43 | p3lim | Holiday doesn't exist here |
| 17:45.47 | p3lim | So probably fallout |
| 17:45.56 | Rythal | black thursday shopping. |
| 17:46.27 | fewyn | i'm making a turkey just for meeeee |
| 17:46.49 | Rythal | and pondering cooking a turducken if I can find one premade |
| 17:47.06 | Torhal | You should probably just get a large syringe full of tryptophan, fewyn. Seems easier. |
| 17:48.02 | fewyn | i need to take my 20lb turkey out of the chest freezer |
| 17:48.27 | Ressy | Thats a lot to type for a reload.. |
| 17:48.30 | Ressy | I use /rl |
| 17:48.38 | mckenziemc | ^ requires Ace3 |
| 17:48.48 | Ressy | Which like EVERYTHING has. |
| 17:48.49 | Ressy | :P |
| 17:49.00 | mckenziemc | which people testing one addon may not have enabled |
| 17:49.05 | fewyn | i use /reload |
| 17:49.08 | fewyn | iut's shorter |
| 17:49.10 | Rythal | fewyn: make sure you let your turkey chill -> http://memecrunch.com/meme/1BS5Q/turkey-chill/image.png?w=400&c=1 |
| 17:49.29 | fewyn | i'm debating if i want to make my own brine |
| 17:49.31 | fewyn | or buy a premade |
| 17:49.38 | p3lim | Ya'll need to bind your reloads to a key |
| 17:49.46 | fewyn | that sounds like effort p3lim |
| 17:49.47 | mckenziemc | >.> |
| 17:50.00 | Rythal | with my luck, i'd be in the middle of LFR and hit that key |
| 17:50.08 | fewyn | i haven't done lfr |
| 17:50.10 | fewyn | in like |
| 17:50.12 | fewyn | 2 months |
| 17:50.20 | fewyn | i'm so behind on my legendary |
| 17:50.22 | p3lim | So what, it's just LFR |
| 17:50.23 | fewyn | good thing i can't raid |
| 17:50.30 | Rythal | I'm a year behind :/ just finally got a 100 and starting the legendary quest |
| 17:50.53 | fewyn | i don't have a raid group that works with my work schedule anymore and i really don't want to have to hunt down one |
| 17:51.01 | mckenziemc | it's ok Rythal |
| 17:51.14 | Rythal | tho i'm liking the mythic folks in lfr... you finish like 7 LFRs in an hour now. |
| 17:51.15 | mckenziemc | i just got more than one 100 and still haven't done any 100 content on any of them |
| 17:51.50 | p3lim | Killed Archi heroic then left the game until like this week |
| 17:52.01 | p3lim | Killed him 2nd week or something |
| 17:53.35 | Rythal | I thought about doing another 100.. but without flying seems too much work, then I saw the requirement for flying and said forget it. |
| 17:55.13 | kullervo | the requirements aren't even high |
| 17:55.29 | Rythal | faction grinding.. too boring |
| 17:56.08 | Torhal | Fisker will grind it for you, Rythal - just supply account details. |
| 17:56.24 | fewyn | i'm working on the nemesis quests |
| 17:56.28 | fewyn | for the thingie |
| 17:56.34 | fewyn | in the garrison |
| 17:56.39 | fewyn | it's a pita |
| 17:58.00 | p3lim | Hm, void storage is not being removed |
| 17:58.10 | p3lim | I don't see a reason to keep it tho |
| 17:58.32 | mckenziemc | it wasn't really intended for transmog in the first place |
| 17:59.11 | Rythal | wasn't there talk of armor stands to show off sets in the class halls, or was that just my imagination |
| 17:59.21 | Rythal | in which case having sets in void storage still matters |
| 17:59.32 | p3lim | That'd be minecraft |
| 17:59.33 | mckenziemc | you might be thinking of Minecraft :) |
| 17:59.40 | mckenziemc | hurts p3lim |
| 18:00.04 | znf | I think it's sinking http://i.imgur.com/gZZNWWB.png |
| 18:01.28 | Rythal | No, i'm not imaganing it... "Class features and other bonuses, such as armor stands where players can display tier sets they've earned in the past" |
| 18:07.56 | p3lim | :SetMinMaxSmoothedValue, :ResetSmoothedValue, :SetSmoothedValue |
| 18:08.49 | p3lim | :SetColorTexture(r, g, b[, a]) |
| 18:09.18 | mckenziemc | @param a still unused |
| 18:12.30 | *** join/#wowuidev adys (~jleclanch@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 18:12.43 | *** join/#wowuidev straddle (~thunderin@hntvlan569.0219.wlan.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) |
| 18:17.10 | *** join/#wowuidev jleclanche (~jleclanch@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 18:18.17 | fewyn | anyone in here with an iphone and know a good grocery store list app? |
| 18:22.44 | Torhal | p3lim: There are still all of those "Why the hell aren't these in the Toys interface?" toys, some "pets" that are item-only, and other keepsakes. |
| 18:22.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Unkle (~mconvers@USRWC-MCONVERS.ddns.nominum.com) |
| 18:22.57 | Torhal | So yeah, I can see keeping void storage. |
| 18:24.03 | mckenziemc | trashes Torhal. |
| 18:24.25 | Torhal | designates mckenziemc as a Timewalking event, |
| 18:27.35 | Unkle | Storing voids seems like a terrible practice. |
| 18:28.02 | Torhal | stores Unkle in a (void*). |
| 18:28.14 | Unkle | main (void) |
| 18:28.21 | mckenziemc | educates Torhal on pointer terminology. |
| 18:28.31 | Torhal | Yes, I know you can't store things in a pointer mc. |
| 18:28.38 | Torhal | I was probably doing C while you were teething. |
| 18:28.40 | Torhal | >.> |
| 18:29.18 | Torhal | Fine. |
| 18:29.21 | Unkle | Torhal has officially "grumpy old man-ed" the channel. |
| 18:29.24 | mckenziemc | unfortunately i may be doing C while you're losing your teeth |
| 18:29.35 | kd3 | is there a lawn we should be getting off of? |
| 18:30.05 | Unkle | It's NorCal. No one here has a "lawn" so much as they have "landscaping." |
| 18:30.07 | Stanzilla | lol Blizzard http://vgy.me/1NR2JN.png |
| 18:30.27 | Torhal | stores Unkle in void *storage[] |
| 18:30.34 | mckenziemc | not necessarily Unkle |
| 18:30.42 | mckenziemc | native grasses don't need watering |
| 18:30.44 | nevcairiel | Stanzilla: thats normal, they just around to some typical value |
| 18:30.48 | nevcairiel | -a |
| 18:30.50 | Unkle | routes Torhal to devnull |
| 18:30.59 | Torhal | I would love to convince my HOA that xeriscaping is viable. |
| 18:31.07 | Torhal | Fuck lawns. |
| 18:31.33 | mckenziemc | percents translate differently in EN_GB, Stanzilla |
| 18:32.03 | Unkle | Profit margins are different in the UK. |
| 18:32.36 | Guest60243 | in RU discount even smaller, only 30% |
| 18:32.41 | Torhal | Is that like street units, Unkle? |
| 18:32.56 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@2601:143:4201:b940:350c:4b74:4bee:5557) |
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| 18:39.39 | Unkle | looks blankly at Torhal. "Do you mean, like, 'metric?' |
| 18:39.44 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (~harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 18:40.27 | Torhal | Naw. Percentage would fall under that, pretty much. If a UK percentage is different from a standard percentage, though... |
| 18:40.35 | mckenziemc | notes Unkle's metrified expression. |
| 18:50.52 | *** join/#wowuidev adys (~jleclanch@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 18:56.35 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (~harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 18:56.56 | Unkle | I was making a metric vs imperial joke, but I guess it failed to land. |
| 18:58.28 | *** join/#wowuidev straddle (~thunderin@hntvlan569.0219.wlan.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) |
| 18:58.47 | mckenziemc | usually conversion errors cause failure to land *properly* |
| 19:00.31 | Torhal | converts mckenziemc to Amarande units. |
| 19:01.17 | VIad | why is the wow discount 75% for US and 65% for EU? |
| 19:01.40 | mckenziemc | types messages to Torhal for one Amarande second. |
| 19:01.49 | Torhal | Noooooooooooo! |
| 19:01.52 | Rythal | cuz blizzard hates EU |
| 19:02.04 | Torhal | EU - pronounced "you" |
| 19:02.31 | Unkle | I'm guessing taxes. |
| 19:02.59 | Torhal | They're taxing Viad for pretending i is l. |
| 19:03.12 | VIad | :D |
| 19:03.21 | VIad | US needs more taxes on the rich I guess |
| 19:03.45 | Rythal | everyone needs more taxes, we don't get taxed enough. |
| 19:03.59 | VIad | I get 40% tax on my sallary already |
| 19:04.28 | Rythal | see, not enough |
| 19:04.47 | mckenziemc | finds reading Rythal's nonsense almost as taking as Amarande's. |
| 19:04.55 | mckenziemc | s/taking/taxing/ |
| 19:04.59 | mckenziemc | :( |
| 19:05.03 | Torhal | Except far less voluminous. |
| 19:05.19 | Ressy | Rythal hasn't reached anywhere near Amarande's.. |
| 19:05.32 | Ressy | Amarande is still the only one I have muted on IRC. |
| 19:05.37 | Rythal | the difference is, I'm always sarcastic in everything I say (almost) |
| 19:05.48 | mckenziemc | :p |
| 19:05.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@75.133.100.116) |
| 19:05.53 | mckenziemc | god dammit |
| 19:05.56 | Rythal | I don't take myself seriously and neither should anyone else :P |
| 19:08.50 | Rythal | now when it's time for a real conversation, I can be serious. I blame work, if I didn't try to be goofy I'd explode from stress being the only north american employee left to handle all of north america's problems with services :| |
| 19:29.57 | Shirik | http://blog.estately.com/2015/11/the-states-where-youre-most-likely-to-encounter-fights-at-black-friday-sales/ |
| 19:45.59 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@chello213047049081.5.graz.surfer.at) |
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| 19:54.18 | kd3 | gah. I don't want to be dealing with cisco licensing bullshit |
| 19:55.12 | kd3 | I have better things to be doing, like refreshing my bnet account page |
| 19:56.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~anything@unaffiliated/yoshimo) |
| 19:57.11 | Unkle | I apparently _still_ do not have Overwatch beta and I am sad. |
| 19:57.43 | foxlit | Is that also on the account page? |
| 19:57.47 | foxlit | "You are: sad." ? |
| 20:00.11 | Unkle | Sad is on every account page. It's the option right below "Denied Access to Beta" and just above "Go Feel Like a Loser, Loser." |
| 20:01.13 | foxlit | drown your sorrows in sc2 multiplayer |
| 20:01.36 | Unkle | No, then I'm actually a loser, because I'll lose every game. |
| 20:02.37 | foxlit | the matchmaker is reasonably good at finding other losers |
| 20:02.57 | Rythal | but you need to lose enough times for it to realize your a loser. |
| 20:03.19 | kd3 | ack, a coastal flood statement? |
| 20:03.39 | foxlit | it assumes that unless proven otherwise |
| 20:04.38 | Rythal | then i'm really a loser, cuz last time I tried sc2 multiplayer... i lost 5 games in a row and was ranked 99 bronze. |
| 20:05.35 | Rythal | I think I saw will wheaton's name beside mine. |
| 20:10.29 | p3lim | :SetAnimatedValues(currXP, min, max, level) |
| 20:10.30 | p3lim | hm |
| 20:11.55 | *** join/#wowuidev straddle (~thunderin@64.94.31.206) |
| 20:12.55 | Rythal | why is it always spammers that open the support tickets saying "please unblock me, I don't spam" |
| 20:13.48 | Semlar | because you blocked them for spamming |
| 20:14.33 | Rythal | don't tell them why they are blocked... they just get a message on login saying their email privledges have been suspended. |
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| 20:34.36 | p3lim | https://i.imgur.com/WhzSsrA.png |
| 20:36.13 | VIad | karl_w_w: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pNMHK8lgQw&t=4m16s#t=4m16s |
| 20:46.16 | harl | https://www.flickr.com/photos/windwolf/23201291211/in/dateposted/ |
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| 21:03.23 | Cairenn | Forums are up, p3lim |
| 21:04.42 | raylu | Rythal: well, you always start at the bottom of the league |
| 21:32.06 | p3lim | Cairenn: Thanks :) |
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| 21:57.20 | Gnarfoz | Cairenn: now we only need teh alphas! ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
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