| 00:15.40 | Simca | fewyn: happens to me all the time, def not new to 6.2.2 |
| 00:18.49 | Simca | Semlar: can you get the GUID of a nameplate's NPC? |
| 00:25.07 | Amarande | wow, this is rather head-shaking: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/3jaeoo/windows_10_will_uninstall_a_program_if_it_thinks/ |
| 00:27.28 | mckenziemc | true whenever the first word on the line is Amarande |
| 00:37.18 | Simca | it only does that as part of the upgrade from older windows systems |
| 00:37.46 | Simca | it doesn't happen to things you install yourself on win 10 |
| 00:37.54 | Simca | but of course this is reddit, context is for squares |
| 00:38.14 | mckenziemc | cubes Simca. |
| 00:40.36 | Amarande | Simca: so "compatible but not compatible" heh |
| 00:41.20 | Amarande | files under "lost-count-of-the-number-of reasons to always do a clean install of new versions of windows" |
| 00:41.39 | Amarande | Simca: also, I'm still kinda thankful to reddit at the moment |
| 00:42.06 | Amarande | I just finally shipped my PC off to my fiancee's place so I can get it set up when I'm there next week |
| 00:42.23 | Amarande | if it hadn't been for reddit, I'd probably have gotten out to Illinois to find an internally wrecked machine :| |
| 00:42.48 | Amarande | because until I googled around and read horror stories like a particular one on reddit, I hadn't quite considered the potential pitfalls |
| 00:43.07 | Amarande | and probably would have shipped it with heavy graphics card and ginormous akasa cpu cooler in place |
| 00:43.41 | mckenziemc | >.> |
| 00:47.33 | Amarande | yeah I'm not even sure I'm keeping that CPU cooler at all, I'm probably going to try to yard sale it or see if one of my local geek pals wants it |
| 00:48.13 | mckenziemc | when you upgrade to 10, does it give you a key you can use for future clean installs? |
| 00:48.28 | mckenziemc | FAQ just says the upgrade doesn't ask you for a key |
| 00:48.43 | Amarande | mckenziemc: from what I've read, as long as you have not changed the hardware, you should be able to just clean install it and it'll recognise that the hardware is licenced |
| 00:50.16 | Amarande | and apparently the non-tinfoil-hat "for the life of your device" specifically refers to the mobo, after changing which you'll have to make that usual phone call to ms (or re-buy windows if it's oem licenced) |
| 00:50.28 | Amarande | there were some pretty danged out-there claims about that part of the clause, heh |
| 00:50.50 | Amarande | including some who claimed that "for the supported life of the device" meant once your 90 day warranty was up, you were no longer entitled to windows updates either *smh* |
| 00:52.17 | mckenziemc | what about if you want to change devices (eula apparently says you can use the software on a new device if you uninstall it from the old, if you have a retail copy) |
| 00:53.06 | A-KO | Amarande: Lots of bullshit nonsense out there |
| 00:53.07 | A-KO | :( |
| 00:53.19 | mckenziemc | presumably they don't mean "you can install it but not activate it" since that would be pointless |
| 01:00.52 | Amarande | mckenziemc: I believe then you use the key from the OS version that you upgraded from |
| 01:01.07 | Amarande | (and no, I'm not entirely sure how that's going to work for those of us who have that "8.0 Upgrade" licence from back when 8 launched :|) |
| 01:01.31 | Amarande | and probably have to call microsoft |
| 01:07.56 | mckenziemc | so i don't think chkdsk is able to fix this bad sector issue... |
| 01:08.04 | mckenziemc | it's been sitting at 11% :) |
| 01:08.18 | Simca | it takes hours |
| 01:08.38 | mckenziemc | i don't know what to do when a hard drive has bad sectors that it doesn't automatically correct |
| 01:08.52 | kd3 | get as much off as you can |
| 01:09.06 | Simca | ^ |
| 01:09.12 | Simca | buy a new one |
| 01:09.13 | kd3 | consider some black magic (like freezing the drive) and trying to get more off |
| 01:09.25 | mckenziemc | Simca: it's on 8 and the in-windows version completed quickly because of how ReFS works |
| 01:09.42 | mckenziemc | i've already copied off the data |
| 01:10.01 | kd3 | then say goodbye to the drive. uncorrectable sectors means it's hit the far end of the bathtub curve |
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| 01:10.13 | mckenziemc | but i don't know if that's actually a warning sign or if a drive can just have those |
| 01:10.35 | mckenziemc | kd3: this drive has no corrected sector count, no other issues, so idk what's up |
| 01:11.03 | kd3 | if chkdisk ever fails to complete, that drive is immediately suspect and scheduled for disposal |
| 01:11.12 | kd3 | that's about all I care to deal with dead-or-dying drives |
| 01:11.19 | mckenziemc | for a business system i would agree |
| 01:11.26 | mckenziemc | for secondary hobby systems i don't know :P |
| 01:12.24 | mckenziemc | this is from mom's laptop but i have another hard drive with a similar issue |
| 01:12.43 | mckenziemc | wonder if i could stress-test them somehow to see if they do start reporting more errors |
| 01:14.37 | Amarande | mckenziemc: hard drives are like food |
| 01:14.41 | Amarande | when in doubt, throw it out :) |
| 01:15.04 | mckenziemc | hey, i still have 32MB modules from a 98 acer... |
| 01:15.21 | mckenziemc | and 64s that don't work at their rated speed but do in that acer... |
| 01:16.49 | mckenziemc | true fact: debian 7.8? can run on a K6-2 with 64MB ram |
| 01:16.58 | mckenziemc | :) |
| 01:17.56 | mckenziemc | i grew up with practically no disposable income so i developed hoarding habits trying to make the most of what i had |
| 01:18.48 | mckenziemc | "Downloading Windows 10, Feel free to keep using your PC." |
| 01:19.02 | Torhal | I've never really understood the term "disposable income." I thought the more apt term was "I DGAF about money in the future, so I'mma spend this shit now." |
| 01:19.39 | mckenziemc | some people don't have that choice Torhal |
| 01:19.55 | Torhal | mckenziemc: I certainly don't. |
| 01:20.08 | Torhal | So when someone says to me "I have enough disposable income that I can..." I WTF my ass off. |
| 01:20.19 | Torhal | My instinct would be to SAVE THAT FUCKING MONEY. |
| 01:20.23 | mckenziemc | you probably have a cell phone, internet, a car |
| 01:20.42 | Torhal | Yeah, I do. But I'm also living paycheck-to=paycheck. |
| 01:20.51 | Torhal | That's not cool. |
| 01:20.54 | Torhal | :/ |
| 01:21.07 | mckenziemc | oh i know |
| 01:21.19 | Torhal | All three of those things are kinda integral for work, else I would have the cell. |
| 01:21.25 | Torhal | I definitely don't have a plan for it. |
| 01:21.29 | Torhal | I pay as I need service. |
| 01:21.40 | Torhal | wouldn't have* |
| 01:27.16 | mckenziemc | Expenses expand so as to consume the income available for their continuation. |
| 01:28.05 | Amarande | Giving up a cell number is probably a bad idea these days especially, what with the number of things that like to use SMS for two-factor authentication |
| 01:28.25 | Amarande | I'm not 100% sure but it seems like you could easily effectively ban yourself for life from some places by losing your cell number and not being able to get it back |
| 01:29.55 | Amarande | (Your Google/MS accounts where you get your email are 2FA with your cell number? You lost your cell number? Now you're probably locked out of said account forever since you can't auth. Now you can't log onto Facebook from a new device because it wants you to prove you're you. You don't have your cell phone and you can't get into your email because no cell phone ... and you can't create a new FB account either, you're not allowed to have multiples! |
| 01:29.55 | Amarande | Etc.) |
| 01:30.45 | mckenziemc | social re-engineers Amarande. |
| 01:31.06 | Amarande | (Not to mention god knows who might be getting login security codes once you give up your cell #, if you managed to miss removing it from any accounts ...) |
| 01:32.31 | Mr_Rabies | neat, the safari hat is a toy now |
| 01:35.19 | foxlit | Torhal: sounds like you understand the term, but it just doesn't apply to you. |
| 01:36.38 | Torhal | foxlit: If it did, I wouldn't be telling myself "Oh, I can afford to buy the hell out of this!" I would be putting a major portion toward retirement. |
| 01:36.42 | relaxok | Amarande: I got my first sprint pcs phone in like 1996 or so. I used that number for a long time. When I finally switched to cingular when the iphone came out, they said i couldn't keep the number.. I guess it was so old that it wasn't covered by whatever agreements allow the numbers to be transferred now. |
| 01:36.58 | relaxok | Amarande: i would be screwed now, due to two factor auth like you said |
| 01:37.17 | Torhal | The word "disposable" is a farce. |
| 01:37.46 | mckenziemc | moot point |
| 01:38.10 | foxlit | I'm not convinced that problem cannot be solved by increasing income beyond the point of reason. |
| 01:38.27 | relaxok | i have google authenticator attached to my lastpass account.. what happens if my phone shits the bed? if you download a new authentiactor app on a new phone its not the same one that was attached right? |
| 01:39.03 | Amarande | hrm, I thought cell authentication on google was via sms messages, not an app |
| 01:39.31 | relaxok | im talking about the google authenticator app |
| 01:39.33 | foxlit | maybe the argument should be "I don't know anyone to whom this term should apply," but it's not inconcevable that there exist people whose income outweighs their expenses, including retirement investments, by a non-trivial margin. |
| 01:40.44 | mckenziemc | it's important how you define expenses |
| 01:42.33 | Torhal | foxlit: I wasn't being pedantic, so yeah. There are those people. When I hear co-workers in their 20s bandying it about, though, I can't help but shake my head. Circumstances aren't static. Some of that money should be held back. |
| 01:43.45 | Torhal | The idea that "Anything left over after bills can be freely spent." isn't a well thought out one. |
| 01:44.03 | relaxok | the more you talk to people who you think should be rolling in money, the more you realize expenses rise to eat up the income. |
| 01:44.19 | relaxok | most people even them have no money beyond what they've committed themselves to |
| 01:45.01 | relaxok | bigger house, crazier car, second house, tutors, nannies, higher end colleges, private school, etc. |
| 01:45.02 | mckenziemc | it can be "freely spent" in that they can decide whether to use it or save it |
| 01:45.15 | mckenziemc | what the sane choice is is inconsequential |
| 01:45.28 | relaxok | for someone like that, their car shitting itself is still a major headache |
| 01:45.31 | relaxok | like anyone |
| 01:45.55 | Torhal | Obviously, mckenziemc. Though after reading what you and foxlit have to say on my personal rationale, I believe I'm just going to go back to D3 and ignore IRC for now. :P |
| 01:46.13 | mckenziemc | stabs Torhal. |
| 01:46.28 | foxlit | more riiiiiiiftsssssss.... |
| 02:00.12 | Ressy | Damn. EU patched. |
| 02:00.18 | Ressy | 53 minutes total downtime. |
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| 02:05.34 | Shirik | Ressy: it's almost like they've had years of practice at this |
| 02:06.11 | mckenziemc | stabs Shirik. |
| 02:06.16 | Shirik | :< |
| 02:06.38 | Ressy | lol |
| 02:06.45 | Ressy | Its something new they're doing, starting today |
| 02:06.51 | Ressy | and apparently it worked well. |
| 02:07.04 | Shirik | my point is this is like 5 years overdue |
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| 02:13.37 | Amarande | Shirik: indeed, when every other MMORPG was having quick maintenance or no maintenance at all most weeks, Blizzard was still giving themselves 8 hours a week for maint + often going overtime |
| 02:13.57 | Amarande | heck, even SW:TOR had faster maintenance in most cases ... like ... yeah, when even EA's beating you in the maintenance department ... LOL |
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| 02:50.50 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 02:59.28 | mckenziemc | hugs Fisker. |
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| 05:13.48 | Fisker | accidentally redesigns Google using crayons and hugs Cairenn |
| 05:14.28 | Cairenn | hugs Fisker |
| 05:15.03 | Dagmar | I think they should make the next logo entirely out of lens flare |
| 05:15.13 | Fisker | No! |
| 05:19.35 | mckenziemc | hugs Cairenn since Fisker refused to return his earlier. |
| 05:19.45 | Cairenn | hugs mckenziemc |
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| 07:06.46 | mitch0 | same colors as in the (old) windows logo... conspiracy! |
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| 10:07.13 | Simca | sells Fisker for kittens. |
| 10:07.21 | Simca | has no regrets. |
| 10:07.31 | cohii | Well of course you don't. They're -kittens.- |
| 10:14.19 | Fisker | hey Simca :( |
| 10:34.04 | Kalroth | kittens?! where! |
| 10:34.24 | Simca | Torhal has all of the worlds' kittens I heard |
| 10:36.23 | Gnarfoz | mckenziemc: scrollbacking hard, but: I doubt you have a ReFS volume on Windows 8. |
| 10:36.51 | nevcairiel | its not impossible |
| 10:37.04 | nevcairiel | you can mount and use one just fine, it just doesnt let you create one |
| 10:39.02 | Gnarfoz | relaxok: re: Authenticator: you should put recovery codes for all of the TOTP keys you have in the app, somewhere safe. also, if available, make a backup including the data of the app. TitaniumBackup can do it, not sure if it's possible without root. If you try, TEST THE RESTORE :P |
| 10:40.18 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: create on win2012 and win81 will handle it? meh. I guess that's a possible edge-case |
| 10:41.10 | nevcairiel | yeah its a bit edge-y, but people have done it for whatever reason |
| 10:43.32 | Gnarfoz | "Because ReFS was designed not to fail, if failure does occur, there are no tools provided to repair it." that seems like a recipe for disaster |
| 10:44.57 | nevcairiel | well if its self-repairing to some degree (ie. the same degree that a tool would usually manage to), then you dont need a tool anymore |
| 10:45.17 | nevcairiel | not that I know how ReFS works |
| 10:46.36 | Simca | "ReFS can use checksums to detect if data has changed since last written and is able to detect and recover from corruption quickly. In fact, when data is written to disk, it is written to a new location on disk rather than over the top of existing data." |
| 10:46.40 | Simca | apparently that is why |
| 10:47.19 | Simca | no one file is ever written to the same spot twice in a row |
| 10:47.56 | Simca | seems interesting but I doubt it would be useful for normal users |
| 10:49.57 | nevcairiel | its targeted at enterprise clearly, which is why its limited to server variants |
| 10:50.03 | Simca | yeah |
| 10:51.06 | Torhal | Simca: All the kittens, confirmed. |
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| 10:51.34 | Torhal | https://twitter.com/_Torhal_/status/634549043960643584 |
| 10:51.45 | Gnarfoz | at least to the WP article it's also pretty "not quite ready" |
| 10:52.01 | Gnarfoz | (and slow as hell if you actually turn on all the resiliency) |
| 10:52.18 | nevcairiel | clearly Torhal has income to dispose on catfood |
| 10:52.24 | Simca | zing |
| 10:52.29 | Torhal | Not really, no. |
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| 11:57.16 | gre | hello |
| 11:57.37 | zenzelezz | hi |
| 11:57.59 | gre | anyone know how can i could insert a cooldown timer on an aura icon pls? here the little code http://pastebin.com/TXNmJzwm |
| 11:58.38 | gre | s/could/none |
| 12:01.26 | nebula | gre: frame1.cooldown = CreateFrame("Frame", nil, frame1, "CooldownFrameTemplate") [set frame options] frame1.cooldown:SetCooldown(start, duration) |
| 12:01.43 | nebula | not sure if the template needs the frame to be named or not |
| 12:03.14 | nebula | erm s/Frame/Cooldown/ |
| 12:12.26 | gre | http://pastebin.com/76XMc2Cn |
| 12:12.29 | gre | like that ? |
| 12:12.31 | gre | doesn't work |
| 12:13.11 | gre | oops error |
| 12:13.19 | gre | i just see a "frame1" into |
| 12:13.24 | gre | fixing that |
| 12:13.43 | gre | same :/ |
| 12:13.44 | nebula | and the frame type is "Cooldown" not frame |
| 12:14.31 | gre | frame3.cooldown = CreateFrame("Cooldown",nil,frame3,"CooldownFrameTemplate") |
| 12:14.36 | gre | same same |
| 12:14.37 | nebula | and you'd need to actually set start and duration, start can just be GetTime() |
| 12:15.14 | gre | you need into my if UnitBuff.. put a frame3:GetTime() ? |
| 12:15.23 | gre | you mean* sorry |
| 12:16.39 | nebula | for frame3.cooldown:SetCooldown(start, duration) |
| 12:17.12 | gre | ahhh i understand |
| 12:17.34 | gre | and what about duration? |
| 12:18.02 | gre | frame3.cooldown:SetCooldown(GetTime(), 24) for example ? |
| 12:19.00 | gre | ohhh it works almost now |
| 12:19.05 | nebula | yar, doing that in UNIT_AURA means it'll be constantly refreshed until you lose the buff, though |
| 12:20.43 | gre | http://pastebin.com/QStH9TPE |
| 12:21.18 | gre | i can see the cooldown on my icon now (its not number) |
| 12:21.54 | gre | but it starts well, and at 15% its resetting, then 15% again, then resetting |
| 12:21.58 | gre | can't understand why |
| 12:23.53 | gre | local start, duration = GetSpellCooldown("Spell Name") |
| 12:23.57 | gre | i can do that as well |
| 12:24.13 | nebula | yes, or use the returns from UnitBuff |
| 12:25.46 | gre | http://pastebin.com/spMncDMf good about you? |
| 12:27.48 | gre | omg cant find the soulburn buff spellid now.. |
| 12:28.13 | gre | its taking the soulburn in spell book |
| 12:28.18 | gre | duration isn't good at all |
| 12:35.30 | gre | nebula |
| 12:35.40 | gre | first big thanks to you it works well now |
| 12:35.50 | nebula | grats |
| 12:35.56 | gre | i did that : http://pastebin.com/Dt18SZhh |
| 12:36.02 | gre | 30+duration |
| 12:36.06 | gre | and its perfect |
| 12:36.08 | gre | however |
| 12:36.28 | gre | i don't think its the best way |
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| 15:29.53 | gre | http://pastebin.com/nXBd1biP cooldown resetting every sec like a boucle, can't understand why |
| 15:30.20 | gre | like a loop |
| 15:35.11 | nevcairiel | you should feed SetCooldown some more meaningful values then |
| 15:37.26 | gre | mhh |
| 15:37.33 | nevcairiel | UnitBuff gives you an expirationTime and a duration, use those to determine proper values for SetCooldown |
| 15:38.07 | nevcairiel | (which takes start and duration, but of course start = expiration - duration) |
| 15:39.38 | gre | omg ok.. |
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| 15:50.31 | gre | you mean something like |
| 15:51.58 | gre | local start = expiration - duration frame3.cooldown:SetCooldown(start, duration) |
| 15:52.04 | gre | ? |
| 15:52.18 | nevcairiel | sure |
| 15:53.04 | gre | doesn't work :s |
| 15:53.36 | gre | http://pastebin.com/xW9zaqtC |
| 15:55.10 | fewyn | hrm |
| 15:55.18 | fewyn | they "leaked" the first episode of heroes reborn |
| 15:55.20 | Torhal | I don't even see where expiration or duration are defined. |
| 15:55.24 | fewyn | it's interesting |
| 15:56.09 | gre | i have to define them ? :o |
| 15:56.19 | gre | i thought it was include in UnitBuff |
| 15:57.05 | Torhal | You're just checking that UnitBuff() is returning a value that isn't nil or false. |
| 15:57.27 | Torhal | You aren't actually using its return values to assign a duration or expiration. |
| 15:57.39 | Torhal | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/UnitBuff |
| 15:57.50 | Torhal | Those don't just get magically set. |
| 15:57.59 | Torhal | So you're currently referencing nil |
| 15:58.08 | Torhal | You should be getting Lua errors trying to subtract nil from nil. |
| 16:00.04 | Semlar | subtracts torhal from torhal |
| 16:00.20 | Torhal | zeroes Semlar. |
| 16:00.27 | Semlar | D: |
| 16:03.04 | fewyn | i wish i could skip the first boss in ulduar |
| 16:03.52 | nevcairiel | you dont even have to do all the spawning towers, just drive a catapult there, kille the two packs standing before the door, and do him, its not like it takes long |
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| 16:07.54 | gre | i can't manage to define duration somewhere |
| 16:08.00 | gre | im reading at google |
| 16:08.37 | gre | i could do a local duration = UnitBuff("player", "Soulburn") |
| 16:08.40 | gre | i don't know |
| 16:08.57 | Torhal | gre: The page I linked shows the return values. |
| 16:10.07 | gre | sure, name, rank, icon, count, dispelType, duration, expires, caster are some return values |
| 16:10.17 | gre | but how can i define "duration", whats the syntax |
| 16:10.49 | Torhal | Your current code is checking that the name return value is non-null. |
| 16:11.25 | Torhal | So: local name, _, _, _, _, duration, expiration = UnitBuff("player", "Soulburn") |
| 16:11.33 | Torhal | Then: if name then |
| 16:13.02 | gre | expriation or expires ? |
| 16:13.06 | gre | ok |
| 16:13.20 | Torhal | Doesn't matter - it's a variable, you name it appropriately. |
| 16:13.30 | gre | i see! |
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| 16:16.08 | gre | Torhal: thank you.. |
| 16:16.14 | gre | yeah it works pretty well now |
| 16:16.35 | Torhal | gre: http://www.wowace.com/paste/bad4pjywf0lt3mz6/ |
| 16:16.35 | gre | i didn't know i should put many _,_,_,_,_,_ until the variable i want to define something |
| 16:16.38 | Torhal | Some cleanups. |
| 16:16.56 | Torhal | Yeah, those return values are always present, so the ones you don't care about you just name _ |
| 16:17.04 | gre | yeah |
| 16:17.26 | gre | instead of putting many _, i was trying to put directly the var name i wanted |
| 16:17.32 | gre | like many languages actually.. |
| 16:29.17 | nevcairiel | you can also just give them proper names, it makes no difference |
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| 16:46.51 | Fisker | tests Cairenn for hugginess |
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| 17:21.14 | karl_w_w | mahjong is a game of constant disappointment |
| 17:22.57 | Shirik | gre: There is no language I am aware of that functions like you describe. However, I point out that those _ are just also legal variable names, and it's just convention to use _ for a variable that you don't care about. |
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| 19:25.04 | mikma | shirik: https://youtu.be/7SePx4QzzmY |
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| 20:58.33 | Kesava | foxlit: foxliiiiit |
| 21:05.23 | karl_w_w | foxlight |
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| 21:09.23 | VIad | dk can solo kazzak - old news, but its because boss debuffs you to take 200% dmg and do 200% healing taken so :p self heals |
| 21:13.37 | Kesava | ... what's the point in a debuff that causes both 200% damage and 200% healing |
| 21:13.56 | Kesava | other than making healing more spikey which they specifically didn't want |
| 21:14.16 | Dagmar | Less margin |
| 21:16.31 | Amarande | eh, I'm not sure ActiBlizzard really knows what they're doing a lot of the time lately |
| 21:16.41 | Amarande | and yet would you *believe* that they somehow got accepted into Standard & Poor's 500? |
| 21:17.04 | Amarande | man, that's going to be some sad investors in the future, unless they just get carried by hearthstone maybe heh |
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| 21:18.05 | Amarande | WoW has been bleeding subs like a stuck pig and Call of Duty has pretty much been degenerating into Call of DLC |
| 21:18.07 | Torhal | https://www.reddit.com/r/itsaunixsystem |
| 21:18.13 | Amarande | Hearthstone seems to be their main draw anymore heh |
| 21:18.14 | Torhal | There you go, Dagmar. |
| 21:21.36 | relaxok | it's weird how so much discussion is around what blizzard did 'wrong' to lose the subs, when actually all anyone should be talking about is how they did so much right that they managed to keep so many people subscribed for so long |
| 21:22.16 | relaxok | especially in the FOTM gaming culture |
| 21:22.22 | Amarande | relaxok: well, yeah, it's kind of like the roman empire ... when you get into it, it's more a matter of being surprised they held out as long as they did than that they fell apart :p |
| 21:22.43 | relaxok | the discussion implies there's anything they could have done that would've kept the game growing.. answer: no |
| 21:22.56 | Amarande | but yeah, I'm not sure what koolaid S&P500 are drinking, activision seems to be in their declining years and they're *just* letting them into the list now |
| 21:24.42 | Gnarfoz | relaxok: don't try to be sensible, that doesn't fly with the forum crowd |
| 21:26.35 | relaxok | oh right, sorry.. it's because they didnt want flying |
| 21:28.02 | Amarande | well, the flying thing probably had a little to do with it |
| 21:28.28 | Amarande | especially the whole "we'll release a flying mount you have to pay 25 bucks for, then a few days later, also coincidentally *just* when it's too late to get a refund if you bought it at launch, we'll say 'flying isn't coming and never will again'" |
| 21:28.44 | Amarande | that ... was kind of douchey, regardless of whether they had actually meant it to be |
| 21:32.35 | Amarande | it's the kind of thing where the marketing people responsible need to be bumped quite a ways down the retention line when it comes to christmas layoffs :p |
| 21:34.06 | Torhal | "I have no idea what actually goes on at these companies, but I'mma armchair-run them and get people fired." |
| 21:34.17 | Torhal | Gamers are assholes. |
| 21:34.19 | Torhal | Seriously. |
| 21:35.14 | Torhal | Marketing people don't even make decisions like "You know, let's not do flying." |
| 21:36.00 | Torhal | They make ads, and giveaway campaigns, and stuff to MARKET the products. |
| 21:38.09 | Amarande | Torhal: to be fair, they *did* make fairly prominent note of the flyingness of the mount concerned, without even considering the possibility that flying would not make it in |
| 21:38.23 | Torhal | Because they had no idea? |
| 21:38.54 | Torhal | They're in marketing. Not product, not team leads, nothing at all to do with "Someone is going to change how this has worked for almost a decade." |
| 21:38.55 | relaxok | btw designers have been talking about how bad flying is since at least cataclysm |
| 21:39.11 | relaxok | and they're right |
| 21:39.46 | Amarande | Given the fact that WoW has had so many features that didn't show up till years after they were first promoted if they ever showed up at all (some, like the dance studio, apparently got nixed altogether), that seems kind of in the category of "has not paid attention to the product and its trends" |
| 21:39.57 | Torhal | Marketing people are essentially cheerleaders. Not actual leaders. |
| 21:39.58 | Amarande | It's probably a good idea to have a certain familiarity with the product you're pushing when you're trying to push it. :) |
| 21:40.31 | Torhal | Whatever, man. You have no idea and are just talking out of your ass as usual. |
| 21:40.32 | Amarande | relaxok: eh, I've never quite understood how it's so bad |
| 21:41.08 | relaxok | thinking about raids illustrates the point for you |
| 21:41.09 | karl_w_w | http://i.imgur.com/e7d7r0i.png |
| 21:41.21 | Amarande | relaxok: typically an expansion is designed with it in mind (e.g., cataclysm and the 77-80 parts of northrend) or it's not made available till after you've hit max level for the content |
| 21:41.22 | relaxok | notice you can't fly in (the vast majority of) raids |
| 21:41.37 | relaxok | why do you suppose that is |
| 21:41.40 | relaxok | there's your answer |
| 21:41.47 | Amarande | yeah, that's always seemed a little odd to me too, also the fact that it's pretty arbitrary which ones let you mount at all |
| 21:41.54 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:41.56 | Amarande | like I can mount in ZF but plenty of other outdoor ones say no |
| 21:42.12 | relaxok | ground mounts aren't nearly as much of an issue |
| 21:42.41 | relaxok | flying trivializes almost everything |
| 21:43.09 | Amarande | keep in mind that I haven't really raided all that much compared to most folks though |
| 21:43.51 | Amarande | I was into it during Icecrown Citadel (which was pretty much all indoors anyway and you aren't supposed to be able to fly indoors anyhow) and some LFR during the early months of Mists but that's been pretty much it in terms of doing content when it's current |
| 21:44.11 | Amarande | (oh, most of the early mists raids were mainly indoors too anyway, so yeah) |
| 21:44.49 | Amarande | on the other hand, it frequently trivialises the tedious, such as routine travel across the continent at max level, and that's a good thing |
| 21:45.44 | Amarande | no taxis aren't really a good substitute, they take away player agency and encourage extensive afking :) |
| 21:46.33 | relaxok | it's all a slippery slope to categorzing everything short of looting items as tedious. |
| 21:46.34 | Kesava | foxlit: just wanted to say M6 icons are flashing and being a bit weird in combat as of 6.2.2 |
| 21:48.01 | Amarande | relaxok: some other blizzard decisions frequently seem like that's how they think people perceive the game |
| 21:48.18 | Amarande | relaxok: note that almost everything except for "show up for raid night" seems to be being steadily "simplified" out of the game |
| 21:48.38 | foxlit | Kesava: mm, I haven't looked at it for a while. It's a bit intrusive in how it hooks things, so it's possible that it needs to be poked with a sharp stick. |
| 21:48.49 | Amarande | such as the ever more limited role that crafting is allowed to have |
| 21:48.55 | Kesava | yees |
| 21:49.03 | relaxok | Amarande: some of those decisions were probably good (not having to go to the original battleground portals to do battlegrounds), but some is just collapsing in the face of lazy whiners |
| 21:49.59 | relaxok | Amarande: and obviously over time they've wanted to cater to people who have less time to play.. they've also tried to please the hardcore but there's limited ways you can do that when you remove anything a housewife with 3 kids thinks is too tough or takes too much time to do. |
| 21:50.28 | Amarande | yeah, jump-in-from-anywhere instances is just plain good all around |
| 21:50.48 | Amarande | well, at least till people die and then don't know the way to the portal :p |
| 21:51.08 | relaxok | Amarande: having a tough raiding mode is at least a sandbox they can tune to the hardcore.. i really don't agree with faceroll raid versions though. If they exist they should be like one entire tier behind or something (who knows,maybe they do that now?) |
| 21:51.13 | Amarande | I only really had trouble with that with icc5 though and there's a pretty good excuse for those ones :) |
| 21:51.32 | Amarande | relaxok: yeah FFXIV for instance has a far greater jump between difficulty modes |
| 21:51.57 | Amarande | extreme tier content tends to have full fledged loot, on "hard" mode you're lucky if you even get loot at all in many instances |
| 21:52.17 | relaxok | yeah that would be at odds with the wow loot pinata design |
| 21:52.35 | relaxok | shit tons of items dropping in LFR wasnt good enough, everyone needed their own personal loot! |
| 21:52.56 | Amarande | eh, that has its merits |
| 21:53.15 | relaxok | blah blah basic psychology stuff.. the easier you make it to get stuff, the less satisfying it is and people are just bored all over again. |
| 21:53.20 | Amarande | that at least allows loot to be tailored to specific player specs, rather than the happy fun that was "okay, this is the fourth week in a row we've had no progress because the items that are actually upgrades for anyone won't drop" |
| 21:53.40 | relaxok | any game that doesn't take the idea of 'challenge' seriously is just on a path toward progress quest or something.. keep pressing 1 button to advance |
| 21:54.08 | Amarande | or "last tier I was King Awesome and this tier I was relegated practically to scrubdom due to bad RNG and now I have to worry about getting a group at all next tier" |
| 21:54.09 | relaxok | and if there's challenges there will be people that are pissed off and complain on the forum that something is too hard ot sucks |
| 21:54.10 | relaxok | or* |
| 21:54.13 | relaxok | too fucking bad! |
| 21:54.18 | Amarande | (although if expansions start having only two tiers that probably stops being *that* much of an issue) |
| 21:55.19 | Amarande | btw fellow penguin disciples, there's an important debian update for DNS/BIND |
| 21:55.21 | relaxok | i think their elimination of the idea of progression was a huge mistake |
| 21:55.29 | Amarande | relaxok: yeah, me too |
| 21:55.38 | Gnarfoz | karl_w_w: I like the options on that AV |
| 21:55.56 | Amarande | not that it didn't at least have a rational basis ... as an FFXIV fan I've noticed that forced progression does have its issues |
| 21:56.30 | Amarande | especially for people who get into the game later on and just flat out can't find groups to get through the older instances they need to pass to unlock the current ones |
| 21:56.49 | Amarande | (they do let you catch up on gear pretty easily with tomestones, but you still need those earlier EX Primals to get to the newer ones ...) |
| 21:57.31 | Amarande | relaxok: wonder if that's possibly part of the reason why so many traditional MMOs are struggling |
| 21:57.54 | relaxok | it has side effects.. trivializing everything in the past as soon as something new comes out is bad design.. also it even has effects when the new thing isnt even out yet.. why come in and give a shit toward the end of a tier when there's a new one coming that's going to be sunk down to the same level but with better gear |
| 21:58.15 | Amarande | as in, the weight of the handicap suffered by anyone who doesn't get into every expansion at launch and get in with the peloton, so to speak |
| 21:58.42 | relaxok | i think the expansion can be the reset, that's fine. |
| 21:59.07 | relaxok | last i checked every tier is a reset now |
| 22:00.15 | Amarande | there seems a huge difference in the playerbase personality between wow and ff14 though |
| 22:00.42 | Amarande | the average wow player seems a lot more of a 'competitor' type, while the average ff14 player is much more cooperative and teamish |
| 22:01.35 | relaxok | why do i doubt that? =p |
| 22:01.56 | Amarande | the trouble is more of a matter of getting 8 competent people (and they really all have to be, otherwise it's wipe city), who don't lag (which also means wipe city), and who don't feel a total and absolute dread of going to THAT instance again |
| 22:02.32 | Amarande | (some boss fights there are pretty notorious ... does wow even have notorious bosses anymore? I hear less and less people swearing at roadblock bosses anymore :() |
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| 23:36.18 | Mr_Rabies | oh my god i just won a boss fight in mgs v by dropping a box on their head |
| 23:36.20 | Mr_Rabies | game of the year |
| 23:36.49 | Mr_Rabies | you can order in supply drops from your air command center (heli) |
| 23:37.00 | Mr_Rabies | so i dropped two of them on the boss's head and it knocked them out |
| 23:37.09 | Dagmar | I've seen people killing their mounts with it. :) |
| 23:59.20 | znf | http://i.imgur.com/P4vhjvH.png at least these are good for something |
