| 00:18.16 | Simca | Semlar: yeah it's actually hilarious why that happens |
| 00:18.45 | Simca | the GUID gets converted from hex to dec in lua, and the resulting number is too large for Lua and overflows |
| 00:18.54 | Simca | if the server has been up too long |
| 00:19.02 | Simca | the GUIDs start small and get quickly massive |
| 00:19.29 | Simca | I think they fixed that in 5.4.3 though, I forget |
| 00:20.21 | Semlar | did they? |
| 00:24.36 | jleclanche | https://mediacru.sh/G2G_DgVFRZ5q |
| 00:24.37 | jleclanche | oh |
| 00:24.37 | jleclanche | civ. |
| 00:26.40 | Arrowmaster | first car payment sent in, there goes my money |
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| 01:03.06 | Shirik | jleclanche: why are you so mean to them |
| 01:03.13 | Shirik | you did not have to make them all fat with your mcdonalds |
| 01:05.33 | jleclanche | Shirik: https://mediacru.sh/Zm6eT-szthY5 i may have a slight advantage in this game |
| 01:06.52 | Shirik | slight advantage |
| 01:07.02 | Shirik | how do you even get that much of a production lead |
| 01:07.53 | jleclanche | Shirik: i set all my cities to it. |
| 01:08.02 | jleclanche | those games completed in two turns |
| 01:09.39 | Shirik | lol |
| 01:10.09 | jleclanche | wow |
| 01:10.29 | jleclanche | Shirik: Russia is jealous of me protecting prague |
| 01:10.29 | jleclanche | omg |
| 01:10.36 | Shirik | in other news |
| 01:10.40 | Shirik | atlassian is the best company ever |
| 01:10.57 | Shirik | atlassian gave me a custom build of their software to resolve a problem we're having, and it's not even their problem |
| 01:11.03 | Shirik | it's a problem with perforce that they're working around for us |
| 01:11.13 | jleclanche | haha poland as well. Shirik: https://mediacru.sh/_rko-TwcGz_w |
| 01:13.15 | Shirik | I'd be pretty worried about you too |
| 01:13.26 | Shirik | you seem to be the Germany of Civ5 |
| 01:14.10 | jleclanche | Shirik: you either mean brazil or you're referring to something else. |
| 01:14.39 | Shirik | World War 2 |
| 01:15.17 | jleclanche | that is so 1940s |
| 01:53.23 | MiRai | You guys come here often? |
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| 02:21.48 | Sintacks | lulz. 4 garrosh kills. 3 BoAs |
| 02:22.03 | kd3 | ! |
| 02:23.05 | Sintacks | people in my guild be pissed |
| 02:23.18 | Sintacks | doesn't matter. i'll be the last person to get the mount anyway. |
| 02:26.22 | Simca | same with the warrior in my guild, he got the 1h str sword and 2h str sword and then 2 other BoAs in like 6-8 kills |
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| 02:41.47 | kd3 | heh. gambling against your flight being on time: http://www.nbcnews.com/business/travel/flight-delayed-or-canceled-you-could-be-paid-1-000-n152201 |
| 02:41.55 | jleclanche | Shirik: going for a record here. https://mediacru.sh/MZvNhhqxxwJy |
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| 07:20.42 | Shirik | jleclanche: you're going to break the status bar |
| 07:23.03 | Kalroth | dont break it!! |
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| 07:46.46 | sb | which game is this? |
| 07:55.25 | Neffi | https://i.imgur.com/XUAzEmp.jpg |
| 08:17.26 | karl_w_w | why is that Neffi? |
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| 08:41.05 | Mr_Rabies | well |
| 08:41.07 | Mr_Rabies | http://i.imgur.com/SiA4dnP.jpg |
| 08:41.14 | Mr_Rabies | Darnell has become one with the void, apparently |
| 08:55.16 | Shirik | so my calorie tracker offers two different serving sizes for milk |
| 08:55.20 | Shirik | one is 1 cup |
| 08:55.24 | Shirik | one is 1 container |
| 08:55.29 | Shirik | who drinks an entire container of milk? |
| 08:55.53 | Shirik | (1 container being a gallon) |
| 08:56.20 | Kalroth | i have swallowed 1 liter once, it was very cold and i was very thirsty! |
| 08:56.32 | Kalroth | but a gallon is more than that, i think |
| 08:56.44 | Kalroth | haha |
| 08:56.47 | Kalroth | almost 4 liters |
| 08:56.49 | Kalroth | yeah, no |
| 09:00.05 | Shirik | I think you would get sick from drinking a gallon of milk |
| 09:00.44 | Shirik | http://www.brainstuffshow.com/blog/good-question-why-cant-people-drink-a-gallon-of-milk-in-an-hour-without-throwing-up/ |
| 09:01.47 | Kalroth | you'd get sick drinking a gallon of anything |
| 09:03.01 | Mr_Rabies | i'd cheat and get a catheter installed in my stomach by trained alley doctors and probably not die from infection |
| 09:04.10 | Mr_Rabies | "So it is not surprising that a gallon of milk is also problematic." |
| 09:04.14 | Mr_Rabies | Tumblr has ruined this word for me |
| 09:04.18 | Mr_Rabies | forever |
| 09:04.26 | Mr_Rabies | i see it in patch notes and think of frothing tumblr rage |
| 09:04.59 | Shirik | o.o |
| 09:05.11 | Shirik | atlassian opened a bug report on this? |
| 09:06.17 | Shirik | so we had corruption in our perforce repository causing Atlassian Fisheye to break. Atlassian was cool and gave us a custom build that worked around the problem while we troubleshot our Perforce installation. And apparently they also think it's a bug that the Perforce problem caused Fisheye to break. |
| 09:06.26 | Shirik | https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/FE-5266 |
| 09:06.36 | Shirik | man, I wish I could deal with bugs so esoteric like that |
| 09:06.51 | Shirik | that means their system is so stable that they can bother to deal with these extremely rare problems |
| 09:07.54 | karl_w_w | there is no such thing as a liter |
| 09:08.03 | Shirik | there's liter cola |
| 09:08.14 | Workfoz | you don't say? |
| 09:08.16 | karl_w_w | why would anyone let a country that doesn't use litres change the spelling of the word litre? |
| 09:08.18 | Mr_Rabies | literacola* |
| 09:08.19 | Workfoz | it's like you're saying Europe exists |
| 09:09.10 | Workfoz | we use them and we say liter. we're not British, though :P |
| 09:09.43 | Workfoz | just say dm³ and be done with it |
| 09:10.54 | Shirik | yeah tbh I hate liters anyway |
| 09:11.08 | Shirik | m^3 or similar |
| 09:11.27 | Mr_Rabies | bro, do you even lite |
| 09:11.31 | Mr_Rabies | pronounced (leet) |
| 09:11.41 | Shirik | I just wish there weren't 5 billion units for everything |
| 09:11.43 | Mr_Rabies | wow hello i'm good at parenthesis hello hi |
| 09:11.48 | Shirik | it's bad enough that there's like 5 different altitudes |
| 09:11.51 | Shirik | measurements |
| 09:11.57 | Workfoz | Shirik: clearly http://xkcd.com/927/ |
| 09:11.58 | Mr_Rabies | 5 altitudes |
| 09:12.05 | Mr_Rabies | here, up there, way up there, down there, and way down there |
| 09:13.36 | Shirik | and then there's like 3 different ways to measure speeds |
| 09:13.50 | Shirik | and for each of those sometimes people want knots and then sometimes people want m/s |
| 09:13.58 | Shirik | and nobody knows what either of those mean so people ask for it in mph |
| 09:14.28 | Shirik | so you end up with 9 speeds |
| 09:15.00 | Mr_Rabies | i only measure things in powers of the speed of sound |
| 09:15.10 | Mr_Rabies | but i've gotta measure speed of sound at the area, first |
| 09:15.26 | Mr_Rabies | so it's a lengthy process but only using one unit is best i'd say |
| 09:15.38 | Shirik | at least if everyone used the speed of light we could be consistent across all observers |
| 09:16.18 | Mr_Rabies | what if one observer is outside of a black hole's gravity well, and another observer is currently inside the gravity well |
| 09:16.23 | Mr_Rabies | what then huh |
| 09:17.25 | Workfoz | what if there's more than one type of light?! :D |
| 09:18.55 | Mr_Rabies | on an unrelated note man you really underestimate the size of fighter planes in video games |
| 09:19.15 | Mr_Rabies | i'm watching this and am like "geez the bearcat is a huge plane, it seems so tiny in war thunder" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XcI1RCXXJU |
| 09:19.40 | zenzelezz | happens with almost every game and vehicle type |
| 09:19.51 | zenzelezz | tanks also look small until you place an adult next to it |
| 09:19.59 | *** join/#wowuidev g0urra (~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra) |
| 09:20.03 | Shirik | that thing must be so expensive to maintain... |
| 09:20.08 | Mr_Rabies | the flight model is horrible for the bearcat in war thunder unfortunately |
| 09:20.17 | Mr_Rabies | if it's not russian it's pretty much terrible :( |
| 09:22.51 | Mr_Rabies | it was the fastest climbing plane for decades apparently, but in war thunder it's a total hog |
| 09:27.33 | Mr_Rabies | i've got such a love/hate relationship with that game |
| 09:27.50 | Mr_Rabies | the gameplay is really awesome, but the game is poorly designed from top to bottom, if that makes sense |
| 09:30.19 | karl_w_w | nobody underestimates the size of my bearcat |
| 09:30.51 | karl_w_w | realises nobody will get that reference, and doesn't care |
| 09:31.40 | karl_w_w | also the first word was meant to be never |
| 09:32.14 | Shirik | TIL spicy foods can kill cancer cells |
| 09:32.15 | Shirik | wat |
| 09:32.38 | karl_w_w | I'm not surprised |
| 09:32.47 | karl_w_w | I wonder if pineapple does it as well |
| 09:46.59 | karl_w_w | http://xkcd.com/ EVERYBODY is younger than keanu reeves |
| 09:47.29 | karl_w_w | he is immortal after all |
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| 12:23.42 | relaxok | anybody know where the audio files that play in the login screen/frontend are? |
| 12:23.53 | relaxok | i cant find the filenames from the lua anywhere in the mpqs |
| 12:24.34 | relaxok | GlueScreenIntro is the ambience, and MUS_50_HeartOfPandaria_MainTitle is the music |
| 12:32.01 | Alram | Sound\Music\Pandaria\MUS_50_HeartofPandaria_01.mp3 is the only heart of pandaria i can find |
| 12:33.45 | Alram | Sound\Ambience\GlueScreen\GlueScreenLogin.ogg maybe the ambience? |
| 12:34.42 | Alram | wow/bc/wotlk login music is in Sound\Music\GlueScreenMusic\ |
| 12:35.56 | relaxok | yeah, there's separate SoundEntries.dbc records for the two i mentioned |
| 12:35.59 | relaxok | which are the ones the lua calls |
| 12:36.04 | relaxok | but afaik they dont exist anywhere |
| 12:36.24 | relaxok | there's a lot of stuff that has no filepath in the soundentries records |
| 12:36.49 | relaxok | maybe they remap in some table somewhere, i dont know, but seems bizarre |
| 12:40.59 | Alram | weird |
| 12:56.08 | karl_w_w | Bibi might know, I would think |
| 12:57.00 | Alram | he'd just ask Simca |
| 13:11.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~resa1983@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 13:22.45 | Simca | sound dbcs are the only ones i really haven't screwed around with, especially with how much they've changed in WoD |
| 13:25.29 | Simca | Every entry in SoundEntries.dbc maps to a FileDataID, at least in WoD |
| 13:26.51 | Simca | yep, in MoP too |
| 13:28.13 | relaxok | filedataid? |
| 13:28.22 | Simca | ID column of FileData.dbc |
| 13:28.36 | Simca | header structure of SoundEntries.dbc is like this: http://i.imgur.com/e76eaQX.png |
| 13:29.04 | Simca | pretty much no DBC uses file paths any longer |
| 13:29.07 | Simca | they just use FileDataIDs |
| 13:29.14 | relaxok | uhm |
| 13:29.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~Kraps@unaffiliated/kraps) |
| 13:29.31 | relaxok | maybe my SoundEntries isnt the current one then |
| 13:29.33 | relaxok | is that a new change? |
| 13:29.35 | relaxok | i have file paths |
| 13:30.29 | Simca | i'm pretty sure the one I just loaded and took a pic of is from 5.4.8.17898 |
| 13:30.48 | relaxok | i dont know when i extracted this |
| 13:31.49 | Simca | sounds like getting a fresh copy of dbcs from live wouldn't hurt |
| 13:35.33 | relaxok | yeah |
| 13:35.37 | relaxok | i really wish the dbcs self-described |
| 13:35.40 | relaxok | like wildstar's |
| 13:35.57 | relaxok | (or do they in the new ones?) |
| 13:36.01 | Simca | they don't |
| 13:36.37 | Simca | everything we know is from when they fuck up and publish internal clients or stuff people have reverse engineered |
| 13:36.40 | pompy1 | anyone affected by the huge Cox outage in the gulf? |
| 13:37.20 | relaxok | ah christ, its one of those PTCH versions |
| 13:37.25 | relaxok | i have done absolutely zero with those |
| 13:37.56 | relaxok | what is the deal you take the file from the base mpqs and then there's some way to apply the PTCH version as a binary patch? |
| 13:38.11 | Alram | yup |
| 13:38.37 | Simca | just use Ladik's and go to File --> Open and load the base mpqs and then the patch mpqs |
| 13:38.56 | Simca | it handles all of the merging and just shows you the resulting files |
| 13:38.58 | Alram | http://www.zezula.net/en/mpq/patchfiles.html |
| 13:39.03 | Alram | that explains |
| 13:39.09 | relaxok | ah was just looking at that |
| 13:39.33 | relaxok | Simca: yeah but it doesnt do the incremental patching i guess? |
| 13:39.49 | relaxok | i unarchived a file and it was monged |
| 13:39.58 | Simca | it works fine if you load every patch mpq in order on top of the base mpqs |
| 13:40.56 | relaxok | i know it shows the latest files if you do it in order, but the actual files themselves are incremental patch files |
| 13:40.59 | relaxok | re that link |
| 13:41.14 | Simca | http://i.imgur.com/1NHDn1I.png |
| 13:41.26 | Simca | if you load like this it merges every incremental patch on top of the originals |
| 13:41.57 | Simca | there won't be any PTCH files |
| 13:42.30 | relaxok | oh i see |
| 13:42.37 | relaxok | fucking glorious |
| 13:44.34 | relaxok | running the entire thing now |
| 13:44.35 | relaxok | thanks |
| 13:45.49 | Simca | yup np |
| 13:49.39 | relaxok | i wonder how big everything is unarchived |
| 13:49.43 | relaxok | including everything in enUS |
| 13:49.53 | relaxok | i will soon find out |
| 13:50.00 | relaxok | well, more like a few hours from now |
| 13:52.24 | Alram | WoD is about ~40GB extracted |
| 13:52.55 | Alram | MoP is probably around 30 im guessing |
| 14:01.31 | Simca | you sure, marla? |
| 14:01.51 | Simca | I think the compression ratio is a lot higher than that, I think WoD is around 100 GB unpacked |
| 14:02.08 | Simca | maybe that's all archives unpacked though, so every language at once |
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| 14:02.34 | Alram | yeah |
| 14:02.58 | Alram | i imagine those locale specific soundfiles / lv models/textures add a lot of size |
| 14:05.40 | Kraps | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:06.00 | Kraps | shouldnt they do things like this more often |
| 14:07.46 | Simca | it's kind of weird though as a promotional thing because valor is capped |
| 14:08.08 | Simca | so it's like "hey, come play WoW this weekend you'll cap valor faster and then you can have more time for other games!" |
| 14:08.34 | Simca | seems like it'd be a better idea with something like honor or JP |
| 14:10.33 | Stanzilla | it's just bullshit that they only do it on the weekend |
| 14:10.40 | Stanzilla | since most raids still raid on reset day |
| 14:10.53 | pompy1 | quit ur bitchin Stanzilla |
| 14:11.02 | Stanzilla | lol look who's talking |
| 14:12.19 | Dagmar | All of which is the sort of thing the investigating authors would be able to determine was a lie |
| 14:12.24 | Dagmar | wrong chan |
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| 14:55.41 | karl_w_w | TIL loose dentures cause gas |
| 14:56.06 | Dagmar | No idea where you're mounting them. |
| 14:56.08 | Dagmar | None. |
| 15:56.28 | karl_w_w | TIL peanuts are really, really good for you |
| 15:56.51 | karl_w_w | they're also not nuts, but I didn't learn that today |
| 15:57.18 | Mr_Rabies | i eat a hell of a lot of peanut products |
| 15:57.26 | Mr_Rabies | i'd be really upset if i ever became allergic |
| 15:59.18 | karl_w_w | yeah me too |
| 16:02.48 | karl_w_w | While specific allergies are not inherited, a tendency toward having allergies is. Children with one allergic parent have a 33% chance of developing allergies; with two allergic parents, it's a 70% chance. |
| 16:02.59 | Ressy | interesting |
| 16:03.10 | karl_w_w | my parents had no allergies |
| 16:03.45 | Ressy | I have a ton.. I made sure to eat lots of peanut butter during my pregnancy cuz that was the main one I was worried about for my munchkin |
| 16:04.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.23.76) |
| 16:04.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 16:04.58 | karl_w_w | eating a lot of peanut butter was just an added benefit |
| 16:05.13 | Ressy | yes... >.> |
| 16:05.29 | Ressy | although, you can get tired of pb&j sandwiches |
| 16:08.05 | Mr_Rabies | i find you can get tired of a particular combination |
| 16:08.09 | Mr_Rabies | change the fruit and you're good to go |
| 16:08.32 | Mr_Rabies | got some homemade fig jam from my parents fig trees nom nom |
| 16:08.35 | karl_w_w | obviously, pb&j is nice and all but the j is still the passenger in the duo |
| 16:09.01 | Mr_Rabies | i find it's a symbiotic relationship |
| 16:09.05 | Fisker | heys Lopeppeppy |
| 16:09.25 | Mr_Rabies | the peanut butter is doing most of the work, but you wouldn't get there if you didn't have the jelly either |
| 16:09.45 | Mr_Rabies | i've been opting for the amalgamated pbj lately |
| 16:14.45 | Lopeppeppy | Bonjour. |
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| 16:15.54 | Fisker | Greet me like one of you french girls Lopeppeppy |
| 16:16.59 | Lopeppeppy | NO kisses on the first date, sorry. |
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| 16:17.53 | Fisker | you kiss french girls? D: |
| 16:19.40 | Lopeppeppy | Not for decades. |
| 16:42.11 | Fisker | so ordered your sticker yet Lopeppeppy ? |
| 16:42.24 | Lopeppeppy | No, because it won't arrive before I go on vacation. Rawr. |
| 16:42.34 | Fisker | vacation? |
| 16:42.39 | Fisker | where? |
| 16:43.34 | Lopeppeppy | I go camping every summer for a huge SCA event. |
| 16:44.07 | Fisker | ah |
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| 16:47.19 | Mr_Rabies | like, LARPing, Lopeppeppy? |
| 16:47.30 | Mr_Rabies | or just general renfaire type stuff :o |
| 16:47.33 | Lopeppeppy | Mmmm. No, not really. |
| 16:47.42 | Lopeppeppy | More like Civil War re-enactment. |
| 16:48.14 | Mr_Rabies | i thought the SCA focused on medieval-esque stuff |
| 16:49.08 | Lopeppeppy | Renfaires are dress up one day, who cares if your outfit is authentic to time period. LARP is beat on friends, but no history (mostly fantasy and magic). SCA is medieval re-enactment, with fighting skills as well as a focus on clothing, medieval recipes and crafts... So more like civil war re-enactment than rennies or larps. |
| 16:50.25 | Mr_Rabies | ah okay |
| 16:50.34 | Mr_Rabies | how do ladies fare in the SCA stuff? |
| 16:51.11 | Lopeppeppy | Same as the guys - dress up, craft, fight, whatever. |
| 16:51.16 | Mr_Rabies | is it like the king of the hill episode where they're stuck doing "women's work" of the time, or is it more egalitarian than history tended to be? |
| 16:51.33 | Mr_Rabies | (that episode is amazing, by the way) |
| 16:52.13 | Lopeppeppy | It's more egalitarian, but there does tend to be fewer female fighters than male fighters. We live in a modern world where discrimination is not legal, so anyone can do anything they decide to do. |
| 16:52.19 | Mr_Rabies | it's a renfaire in texas, and hank's company wants to get a propane contract with them, hank finds out it's to have the giant 50 foot metal dragon shoot fire all day and becomes mesmerised |
| 16:52.32 | Mr_Rabies | "that is the most beautiful thing i have ever seen" |
| 16:53.36 | Mr_Rabies | except the boss is a crazy sexist jerk and peggy ends up trying to fight for women's rights :p |
| 16:54.21 | Mr_Rabies | it's a great episode, because the texas aspects plus renfaire stuff and hank's obsession with this propane dragon |
| 16:54.52 | Mr_Rabies | and dale keeps trying to get in in sci-fi clothes because they just said it has to be "period clothing" without specifying which period of time they want |
| 16:55.25 | Mr_Rabies | what do you typically do at the SCA event? :o |
| 16:55.35 | Semlar | tavern wench |
| 16:55.52 | Mr_Rabies | i'm really interested in hitting up the ren faire/sca stuff that might be available out here at some point |
| 16:56.17 | Lopeppeppy | Renfaires are great fun, Mr_Rabies, totally go to one! |
| 16:56.26 | Mr_Rabies | i've been a few times when i was younger |
| 16:56.41 | Lopeppeppy | Let's see... I dress up nicely, I cook for groups, and I work with registering names and arms for members. |
| 16:56.44 | Mr_Rabies | our marching band ended up stopping at a ren faire before a competition once |
| 16:56.45 | Mr_Rabies | that was |
| 16:56.46 | Mr_Rabies | a thing |
| 16:57.43 | Mr_Rabies | my guess is the arms have to be blunt and specified as peacebound or for the actual re-enactment situation? |
| 16:57.54 | Mr_Rabies | sounds like an insurance mess otherwise |
| 16:58.43 | Mr_Rabies | see, i could never be staff on that sort of thing |
| 16:58.51 | Mr_Rabies | same with conventions |
| 16:59.08 | Mr_Rabies | i have too much fun being there all day having fun to work, especially for basically free |
| 16:59.36 | Mr_Rabies | i've also seen how dead the staff are on sunday at AWA and Dragon Con |
| 16:59.40 | Mr_Rabies | no thank you |
| 16:59.44 | Mr_Rabies | i'm dead enough on sunday myself |
| 16:59.50 | Mr_Rabies | well, dragon con runs til monday soooo |
| 16:59.58 | Mr_Rabies | it's basically wednesday-monday at this point |
| 17:00.04 | Lopeppeppy | Weapons = maces, spears, axes, swords, whatever. There are rules for construction out of rattan and padding for each type. |
| 17:00.04 | Mr_Rabies | even though it's officially friday-monday |
| 17:00.16 | Lopeppeppy | I don't do that. I create heraldry arms. |
| 17:00.29 | Mr_Rabies | ah okay |
| 17:00.42 | Mr_Rabies | so they're like kendo swords but european-themed |
| 17:01.17 | Mr_Rabies | i was thinking it was organized groups that use live steel but blunted and lots and lots of practice, like medieval times |
| 17:02.06 | karl_w_w | does anyone remember what spell it was that used a tiny-scale sunwell? |
| 17:02.11 | Mr_Rabies | and what's a heraldry arm? showcasing stuff? |
| 17:02.16 | Mr_Rabies | it's a paladin spell, i forget which |
| 17:03.54 | Semlar | the blood elf paladin buff? |
| 17:04.13 | Lopeppeppy | Heraldry - designing coats of arms - http://rolls.westkingdom.org/principalities.gif |
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| 17:05.33 | Mr_Rabies | ohhh, okay |
| 17:06.06 | Mr_Rabies | some place at a renfaire i went to ran what i assume was a scam selling plaques with coats of arms on them |
| 17:06.54 | Lopeppeppy | Total scam. |
| 17:07.42 | Lopeppeppy | Armory wasn't assigned to a family, it was assigned to a person. There's no "family coat of arms". There may be a family-awarded crest or augmentation for your personal arms, but no design you can just wholesale pass down as being "our family's arms". |
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| 17:08.22 | Mr_Rabies | i ran into a guy in plate armor at dragoncon once |
| 17:08.27 | Mr_Rabies | i regretted every millisecond |
| 17:08.47 | Mr_Rabies | well, more just kinda bumped into him |
| 17:08.48 | Mr_Rabies | even then |
| 17:08.56 | Lopeppeppy | Try hugging one, before and *after* a long battle. Eeeew. |
| 17:09.16 | Mr_Rabies | every plate either pinched me, grabbed arm hair, or did minor blunt force impact discomfort at least |
| 17:09.57 | Mr_Rabies | i think the extent of my interest in actual warrior type armor is probably eventually making some knight solaire cosplay from dark souls |
| 17:10.21 | Fisker | hugs Lopeppeppy after a long battle |
| 17:10.33 | Lopeppeppy | The sweat, Fisker, eeew. |
| 17:11.10 | Mr_Rabies | i wonder if dark souls armor has kind of taken off at these kinds of events |
| 17:11.24 | Fisker | prespires at Lopeppeppy |
| 17:11.48 | Mr_Rabies | most of it is based on real armor (though i'd wager the vast majority of it in dark souls is from museums that never left rich people's houses until being in a museum, or were created later) |
| 17:13.23 | Fisker | Sweat is icky though Lopeppeppy |
| 17:13.31 | Fisker | Especially when you're bathing in it |
| 17:13.35 | Fisker | hence summer sucks |
| 17:14.27 | Mr_Rabies | i love how much the armor in the Souls games is mixed material and not just shiny plate, unlike most fantasy/medieval depictions in pop culture |
| 17:14.33 | Lopeppeppy | Yes, and summer without adequate bathing facilities sucks worse. |
| 17:14.34 | Mr_Rabies | http://darksouls.wdfiles.com/local--files/armor/elite-knight-set-large.jpg |
| 17:15.54 | Fisker | Seems like not so much a vacation then Lopeppeppy D: |
| 17:17.00 | Lopeppeppy | Camping requires sacrifice, Fisker. |
| 17:17.11 | Fisker | to satan? |
| 17:18.00 | Mr_Rabies | i don't miss camping |
| 17:18.35 | Mr_Rabies | summer camp in boy scouts was fun, but i'm happy to not bake in the sun for a whole week with a crappy shower at best available to me |
| 17:18.55 | Fisker | Vacations sucks |
| 17:19.05 | Fisker | Filled with heat and people in trenchcoats selling you coke |
| 17:19.11 | Lopeppeppy | I at least have access to hot running water, Mr_Rabies. Not everyone on my campsite does. |
| 17:19.15 | Mr_Rabies | i think i retook the rifle shooting merit badge 3 times :V |
| 17:19.31 | Mr_Rabies | i got it the first time, i just loved doing it |
| 17:19.46 | Mr_Rabies | got in the dime club at 75 yards with a .22LR eventually :D |
| 17:19.59 | Mr_Rabies | (a dime would fit over my grouping at at least hit the edge of each shot) |
| 17:20.13 | Mr_Rabies | and at least* |
| 17:20.42 | Lopeppeppy | I am in the Squirrel, Rabbit, and Bullfrogs with a .22 |
| 17:20.51 | Fisker | D; |
| 17:20.53 | Fisker | murderer |
| 17:22.59 | Mr_Rabies | i've never shot anything other than targets |
| 17:23.32 | Mr_Rabies | i had the option to shoot a bowling pin hung from a tripod with a muzzleloader but opted not to since i really didn't want to deal with black powder soot while baking in the sun with a terrible shower |
| 17:26.10 | Fisker | I once shot a guy |
| 17:28.37 | Mr_Rabies | did he died |
| 17:32.10 | Fisker | Yep |
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| 17:42.29 | Fisker | The heat Lopeppeppy |
| 17:42.33 | Fisker | The heat is on me |
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| 18:22.48 | *** join/#wowuidev mitch0 (~mitch@drvolomdental.hu) |
| 18:24.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (Amarande@24.151.100.63) |
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| 18:47.48 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 18:52.52 | TC-Work | Take a cold shower Fisker |
| 19:46.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Nimhfree (~anonymous@204-13-41-22-static.burlingtontelecom.net) |
| 19:53.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|work (cc32712b@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 19:53.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|work] by ChanServ |
| 19:54.14 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzelezz (~Lasse@cm-84.212.85.55.getinternet.no) |
| 19:55.04 | zenzelezz | it's amazing how much easier it is to find music if you get the name right |
| 19:56.24 | Esamynn|work | zenzelezz: oh aye, just shocking... |
| 19:58.32 | zenzelezz | I just blanked on the lyrics for "down on the corner"... went through so many permutations before I got it right =D |
| 19:58.58 | zenzelezz | (the lyrics are often what gets me the name... through Google) |
| 19:59.45 | Esamynn|work | Google knows all |
| 20:00.14 | Esamynn|work | the only question is... does it have the correct answer |
| 20:00.41 | kullervo | except when the only lyrics you remember aren't considered a part of the song so they're not listed anywhere |
| 20:01.02 | Semlar | http://i.imgur.com/t3jpkIl.gif |
| 20:02.02 | Semlar | or this http://i.imgur.com/tg2Vu0k.jpg |
| 20:02.10 | Semlar | thanks pandora |
| 20:02.18 | Esamynn|work | ~fishslap Semlar |
| 20:02.19 | purl | ACTION slaps Semlar up side the head with a wet fish. |
| 20:02.22 | Semlar | :( |
| 20:02.41 | Esamynn|work | you deserved that, and yuo know it |
| 20:02.50 | Semlar | >_> |
| 20:03.01 | Semlar | wub wub wub wub |
| 20:03.24 | zenzelezz | Semlar: lol, nice ones |
| 20:04.45 | Semlar | it's harder to figure out the song when it has no lyrics |
| 20:04.59 | Semlar | but youtube is crazy good at identifying it for copyright purposes |
| 20:08.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@aftr-88-217-181-115.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 20:08.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@unaffiliated/yoshimo) |
| 20:12.59 | Fisker | hugs Lopeppeppy |
| 20:13.09 | Fisker | And I'm not sweating |
| 20:13.12 | Fisker | so no worries |
| 20:13.15 | Lopeppeppy | Soon Fisker, I will go home and plot for s'mores. |
| 20:13.19 | Fisker | I know |
| 20:14.47 | Lopeppeppy | You knew about s'mores? |
| 20:15.53 | *** join/#wowuidev batrick (~batrick@nmap/developer/batrick) |
| 20:21.35 | Fisker | Yep Lopeppeppy |
| 20:21.41 | Fisker | I'm a contractor for the NSA |
| 20:21.43 | Lopeppeppy | Stalker. :P |
| 20:21.54 | Fisker | Well I only stalk people I like <3 |
| 20:22.02 | Fisker | Take the compliment! |
| 20:23.43 | Lopeppeppy | I'm so spoiled! |
| 20:24.27 | Fisker | Yeah |
| 20:24.36 | Fisker | Stalked by random strangers on the internet |
| 20:24.45 | Fisker | You must be a very nice person |
| 20:26.49 | Lopeppeppy | I'm a something, that's for sure. |
| 20:26.55 | Lopeppeppy | Have a good weekend, everypeople. |
| 20:27.55 | Mr_Rabies | enjoy wrangling nerds who decide to eat shrooms for some insane reason |
| 20:28.07 | Mr_Rabies | apparently that's super common with larp, and i imagine there's some crossover there |
| 20:34.18 | Lopeppeppy | ... remind me to tell you about amoeba parties on Monday. :) |
| 21:09.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Simca (~Simca@c-76-123-93-232.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 21:13.46 | kd3 | this is a valid address? http://imgur.com/sTEY0Ta |
| 21:14.27 | nevcairiel | It got pretty far with that address |
| 21:15.12 | Maldivia | kd3: apparently there is a house there (from comments) -- http://i.imgur.com/ZQ3CsvW.png |
| 21:15.21 | nevcairiel | Hey kd3 did you stop sending UI diffs or do only I not get them anymore? :) |
| 21:15.41 | kd3 | whuh? |
| 21:15.45 | kd3 | checks his outbox |
| 21:16.09 | Maldivia | nevcairiel: well, today's patch hasn't hit yet :P |
| 21:16.16 | nevcairiel | Haven't seen one since 26th june |
| 21:16.25 | nevcairiel | There were patches in between |
| 21:16.27 | kd3 | frack! well, I'll send a catch-up from the last one that actually went through to today's patch |
| 21:16.46 | kd3 | grr. time to gut that script and rewrite it |
| 21:17.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Neffi_ (~Neffi@108.6.196.38) |
| 21:17.32 | Maldivia | kd3: btw, how are you extracting the interface code now? |
| 21:17.55 | nevcairiel | Does the console command still not work? |
| 21:18.05 | kd3 | I took tom_rus's tool and wrote something similar |
| 21:18.14 | kd3 | not afaik, lemme check |
| 21:20.40 | kd3 | nope |
| 21:20.53 | Esamynn|work | they broke? or disabled? the console command? |
| 21:21.34 | kd3 | broke. likely with the CASC move |
| 21:21.43 | kd3 | the commands are in, they just return instantly |
| 21:21.50 | Esamynn|work | hmm |
| 21:21.53 | Semlar | so you have a way to open the CASC files |
| 21:21.55 | Esamynn|work | odd |
| 21:22.02 | Esamynn|work | ahh |
| 21:22.06 | Esamynn|work | probably broke, and haven't fixed |
| 21:22.18 | Esamynn|work | (what kd3 said) |
| 21:22.23 | kd3 | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:22.49 | Semlar | this isn't pyfon :l |
| 21:24.13 | Semlar | i think the stormlib guys were working on a library for it |
| 21:24.31 | kd3 | that'd be nice. I haven't heard anything from ladik, not that I've been looking |
| 21:25.02 | Semlar | are the dbc files more or less the same |
| 21:25.07 | Semlar | they just changed the archive format right |
| 21:25.21 | Maldivia | Semlar: there are a lot of changes to the dbc files as well : |
| 21:25.34 | Semlar | erg |
| 21:25.39 | nevcairiel | Always are |
| 21:25.47 | nevcairiel | Especially item related stuff |
| 21:25.58 | Semlar | i only care about the map stuff |
| 21:26.11 | Semlar | my script has to deal with a ton of different files though |
| 21:26.34 | nevcairiel | They have a lot of new things in the maps as well, depends where they are stored |
| 21:34.21 | Semlar | ah well i'll deal with that when i have access to it |
| 21:36.44 | Maldivia | Semlar: install and extract? |
| 21:39.13 | Simca | Semlar: main change to maps is a new column in Map.dbc - ParentMapID |
| 21:39.31 | Simca | instances are now placed 'in' their parent maps |
| 21:39.44 | Simca | allowing near seemless transitioning out of an instance by walking |
| 21:40.33 | Simca | it's pretty impressive in action |
| 21:40.35 | Semlar | so like dungeon instances are associated with the map their entrances are in |
| 21:40.40 | Simca | yep |
| 21:40.43 | Semlar | okay |
| 21:40.54 | Semlar | are the instance coordinates in there anywhere |
| 21:41.01 | Semlar | their entrances |
| 21:41.45 | Simca | unfortunately I don't think so |
| 21:41.47 | Semlar | some of them are in the dbcs currently but i think they're left over from something that they removed |
| 21:41.50 | Maldivia | kd3: so you extract filedata, and use that to find all interface files? |
| 21:41.54 | relaxok | Simca: that's so awesome |
| 21:42.20 | Simca | they specifically designed the WoD instances and scenarios to take advantage of this |
| 21:42.34 | kd3 | kinda, tomrus posts file lists on a site I'm not going to link here, so I just extract everything under interface/{addons,framexml,sharedxml} |
| 21:42.35 | Simca | like the Karabor scenario isn't placed at 0, 0, 0, 0 in its own map |
| 21:42.48 | Simca | it's placed where Karabor would be on the Draenor map in its own map |
| 21:42.59 | kd3 | afaik there aren't internal file lists in the CASC data like there are in the mpqs |
| 21:43.01 | Simca | so when you overlay the instance map over the Draenor map |
| 21:43.07 | Simca | it works out |
| 21:43.50 | Semlar | i'll be able to add it to ma unified map http://i.imgur.com/oNTRWqG.jpg |
| 21:44.06 | relaxok | kd3: getting the xml/lua filelist from crawling the tocs is easy, but getting the interface textures is not easy since many names are created in the lua |
| 21:44.06 | Semlar | i could technically do it now but it would have to be manually |
| 21:44.13 | kd3 | this used to be a problem when they didn't ship the listfile in the mpqs either... http://www.zezula.net/en/mpq/namebreak.html |
| 21:44.42 | kd3 | yah, I dunno how he does comes up with the file lists |
| 21:44.43 | Simca | WoW has 9807 known directories so it's a tiny bit harder than breaking names in Diablo 1 MPQs |
| 21:44.53 | kd3 | ya |
| 21:45.14 | relaxok | crawling maps and thus wmos and thus m2s etc is easy.. thats what my crawler does.. |
| 21:45.22 | relaxok | but that doesnt get you any unimplemented stuff |
| 21:45.26 | relaxok | which is what datamining wants |
| 21:45.30 | Simca | if you're trying to work out how to create a filelist, start with FileData.dbc AND signaturefile |
| 21:45.32 | Maldivia | kd3: there is an internal file list for all interface files though |
| 21:45.43 | relaxok | really where? |
| 21:45.47 | Maldivia | filedata.dbc being that one |
| 21:45.53 | Simca | signaturefile is what warden uses to ensure integrity of critical files |
| 21:46.02 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:46.02 | Simca | so it has file names for 105k ish files |
| 21:50.25 | Semlar | how much have they changed the in game map |
| 21:50.42 | Simca | honestly, not that much |
| 21:50.46 | relaxok | ah fuck. |
| 21:50.48 | Simca | if you had a quest log addon, RIP |
| 21:50.52 | Simca | map addons are mostly ok |
| 21:50.56 | relaxok | i just finally am using latest MOP data instead of 'at launch' mop data |
| 21:50.58 | kd3 | as far as hitting m? it's mostly the same, they just expanded the quest display off to the side, but any quest log addons are hosed |
| 21:51.00 | relaxok | so much stuff to fix now |
| 21:51.08 | relaxok | TexCoords tags now have a 'Rect' tag in them |
| 21:51.11 | relaxok | apparently |
| 21:51.47 | Stanzilla | is the old questlog still in btw? |
| 21:51.50 | Stanzilla | from "L"? |
| 21:52.07 | kd3 | no, it pops up the map now too |
| 21:52.13 | Semlar | oO |
| 21:52.13 | Stanzilla | alright |
| 21:52.31 | nevcairiel | Hope that won't be too annoying |
| 21:52.34 | Semlar | if i replace the map i'd basically have to replace the quest log too |
| 21:52.39 | Amarande | Simca: lemme guess, warden and signaturefile is how the Blizzard UI itself maintains its secure status so it doesn't have to get subjected to taint (which would be pretty damn bad, heh) |
| 21:52.52 | Simca | probably |
| 21:52.55 | Amarande | since blizz UI *is* a set of exposed lua files |
| 21:53.12 | Simca | signaturefile is a list of file names with md5s |
| 21:53.19 | Maldivia | Amarande: they are not exposed... they are loaded from the casc files, and not raw file-system |
| 21:53.20 | Simca | and a tiny bit of binary code at the end for some reason |
| 21:53.43 | nevcairiel | Considering you can even change the |
| 21:53.52 | Amarande | Maldivia: yeah, it's definitely duplicated somewhere in WoW's base files, too |
| 21:54.04 | Maldivia | Simca: the bin at the end is the signature for the signature :P |
| 21:54.12 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:54.15 | Simca | of course |
| 21:54.16 | Amarande | since I know that WoW starts out with nothing in the interface folder, but it copies the Blizz UI in when you first log on |
| 21:54.26 | Simca | blizzard would never be happy without signatures for their signatures' signatures |
| 21:54.38 | nevcairiel | Amarande: it copies nothing in |
| 21:54.50 | kd3 | the stuff in the addons/blizz_* folders are just so people don't try to create addons with the same name. there's no actual addon code in those folders in the filesystem |
| 21:54.53 | Maldivia | Simca: considering how the index files has hashes of hashes of hashes, no :) |
| 21:55.03 | Amarande | kd3: ah |
| 21:55.10 | Amarande | yeah, the blizz_* folders were the ones I was thinking about |
| 21:55.32 | Amarande | Maldivia: wow, that's more paranoid than Apple, heh |
| 21:56.10 | Amarande | and I know Apple gets pretty fussy about their hashes (it's the great lament of those wanting to use a modern iPod on Linux, pretty much) |
| 21:56.27 | nevcairiel | I've always mostly wondered why warden wouldn't even check the integrity of wow.exe, so many binary patches being used for stupid things over the years |
| 21:57.53 | relaxok | so are the instances in the regular continent maps too or only that sub map and the sub map is integrated in the continent? |
| 21:57.59 | relaxok | (parent) |
| 21:59.01 | Amarande | nevcairiel: huh, that's weird, I thought it checked the code spaces of all running processes |
| 21:59.04 | Simca | good question - i think the latter, but there's no reason for them not to sync it |
| 21:59.21 | Amarande | although I guess maybe that's why it doesn't check wow.exe, it's checking the code segment of the process anyway I would presume |
| 22:00.13 | Amarande | which is one thing I think Blizzard did well with warden ... if you're doing anti-cheat you should only *need to* check code segments, for software that's up to no good |
| 22:00.13 | relaxok | okay it seems like they use Rect texcoords now to do different kinds of rotations of the texture than you can do normally |
| 22:01.08 | Amarande | other anti-cheats seem to poke around data segments too, especially Punkbuster (and Even Balance's attitude towards end users doesn't really inspire much trust in Punkbuster either, while Blizzard customer service is exceptionally caring and tolerant, especially given the shit they certainly have to put up with ...) |
| 22:01.38 | relaxok | blargh, wtf, GlueXML now loads stuff in SharedXML which has UIParent as the parent, but UIParent isnt defined |
| 22:02.39 | Amarande | mind you it makes me think that first-party anti-cheat solutions are better in general (VAC doesn't feel untrustworthy either, and that's despite the fact that I'm pretty sure it DOES check data segments - I guess when you're securing FPS you need to though, to combat graphics resource based hacks) |
| 22:02.58 | relaxok | how the hell does it know to have the needed stuff loaded? |
| 22:03.04 | relaxok | it used to be via the toc but.. |
| 22:03.32 | Simca | ManifestInterfaceData.dbc maybe |
| 22:03.33 | Amarande | relaxok: maybe it just assumes UIParent is already loaded? |
| 22:04.11 | Amarande | I mean presumably the UI can't function unless UIParent is loaded anyhow |
| 22:06.04 | Amarande | so checking for it would fall under the heading of similar absurdity to having your system BIOS check the power supply *and* the home fuse box :) |
| 22:06.08 | relaxok | not really true |
| 22:06.14 | relaxok | UIParent.xml is in the regular framexml toc |
| 22:06.20 | relaxok | at the appropriate point |
| 22:06.29 | Amarande | or maybe it's just voodoo |
| 22:06.33 | relaxok | glue uses GlueParent |
| 22:06.42 | relaxok | .. except now that there's stuff in SharedXML some of THAT stuff uses UIParent |
| 22:06.55 | Amarande | and remember, only trolls warn away from voodoo :) |
| 22:06.59 | relaxok | there may be some hackery to rename UIParent to GlueParent depending on what is loading Shared |
| 22:07.19 | Amarande | hmmm ... is FrameXML always loaded before SharedXML? |
| 22:07.30 | relaxok | GlueXML and FrameXML are the two tocs |
| 22:07.36 | relaxok | SharedXML is just a folder of a few files that both use |
| 22:07.43 | Amarande | good question really, I'm not sure in what order wow.exe loads the base files |
| 22:07.43 | relaxok | there's no toc for it |
| 22:07.55 | Amarande | if FrameXML always gets loaded first, say, then UIParent should already always be loaded |
| 22:08.11 | Amarande | (mind you, given how terribad Lua is at making sure A is loaded before B I'm not sure that's something to rely on so I'm likely wrong there, heh) |
| 22:08.17 | relaxok | that's a good point you make there |
| 22:08.17 | Simca | if you need a log of how wow.exe accesses files, I have one laying around |
| 22:08.41 | relaxok | i am hoping not to have to load/parse FrameXML first before GlueXML because it takes for fucking ever |
| 22:08.51 | relaxok | Simca yes please |
| 22:09.39 | Amarande | although that might be just at *confirming* that A is loaded before B, the actual load order might be more consistent |
| 22:09.56 | Amarande | then again, experience with Fonter and MSBT suggests no on that. :P |
| 22:10.55 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@2601:a:f00:465:e161:da50:5878:9aff) |
| 22:10.57 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 22:14.34 | relaxok | "justivyH" =( |
| 22:14.53 | Maldivia | is it still called that? |
| 22:15.19 | relaxok | <FontString parentKey="Description" inherits="GameFontNormalMed2" text="CHARACTER_UPGRADE_FREE_CHARACTER_UPGRADE_DESCRIPTION" justifyH="CENTER" justivyV="TOP"> |
| 22:15.21 | relaxok | just a typo |
| 22:15.27 | relaxok | how does that stuff pass their xsd or whatever? |
| 22:15.50 | relaxok | plus are they really writing all this by hand? |
| 22:16.05 | relaxok | i would've thought they had a framebuilder tool by now |
| 22:16.15 | Simca | we jokingly blame interns |
| 22:16.23 | Simca | every build there's always something fun to ruin datamining |
| 22:16.32 | Simca | last build, the warrior pvp set was named |
| 22:16.41 | Simca | Plate_Plate_PvPWarriorGladaitor |
| 22:17.06 | relaxok | =[ |
| 22:17.06 | Simca | i'm pretty sure nobody there has spell check of any kind |
| 22:17.08 | kd3 | continuing the long tradition of misspelled, irrational internal names |
| 22:17.11 | relaxok | those are harder to fix though |
| 22:17.14 | Maldivia | but the justivyV has been there for years though... |
| 22:17.17 | relaxok | err find* |
| 22:17.39 | relaxok | maldivia i didnt have any justivyV until i updated from mop launch to live data |
| 22:17.41 | relaxok | today |
| 22:17.56 | relaxok | i did have BOARDER for a layer name though |
| 22:18.02 | Maldivia | hmm, I just remember it from years back |
| 22:18.03 | Simca | Maldivia - 'Darnassis' |
| 22:18.12 | relaxok | that seems to be gone |
| 22:18.14 | Stanzilla | last build ashran is named ashsran |
| 22:18.19 | Stanzilla | even on the map |
| 22:18.21 | Simca | once they mispell something and it gets referenced |
| 22:18.26 | Simca | it says mispelled for all time |
| 22:18.29 | relaxok | yeah |
| 22:18.51 | relaxok | although with file data ids that shouldnt be the case eventually |
| 22:18.52 | Simca | map names are the worst, so many typos |
| 22:19.01 | relaxok | do you think they're going to start using filedata IDs for model references in map tiles now? |
| 22:19.22 | Simca | maybe |
| 22:19.34 | relaxok | and textures |
| 22:19.38 | relaxok | might as well go all the way |
| 22:19.48 | Simca | it's been a slow transition |
| 22:20.08 | Simca | back at the start of Cata there was like 1 dbc using filedataIDs |
| 22:20.23 | Simca | now in WoD beta there's only like 2 that don't use them |
| 22:20.25 | relaxok | Simca do you have that file load order thing? i want to see if framexml really is loaded first |
| 22:20.33 | relaxok | yeah it started as cinematic files only right? |
| 22:20.40 | Simca | yeah |
| 22:20.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Arrowmaster (~Arrowmast@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 22:21.00 | Simca | they section it off in the Manifest*Files.dbcs |
| 22:21.03 | relaxok | the client takes a pretty long time to load.. i wouldnt be surprised if part of that was framexml |
| 22:21.08 | relaxok | although i guess it might load all the dbcs? |
| 22:21.10 | relaxok | also |
| 22:21.21 | Simca | it doesn't load all of them, just a healthy chunk |
| 22:21.37 | Simca | FileData is loaded, for example, but ItemDisplayInfo is not |
| 22:21.41 | relaxok | it takes me 15-20 seconds to parse framexml in release mode |
| 22:21.48 | relaxok | but that's actually loading all the textures too |
| 22:22.18 | relaxok | i guess ideally i would only load textures when it goes to render and it doesnt exist yet |
| 22:22.18 | Simca | it takes me 20 minutes to parse every adt/m2/wmo in the game, but WoW.exe can do it in probably 20 seconds. lots and lots of years of optimizations |
| 22:22.50 | relaxok | why would the client need to parse every file? |
| 22:23.00 | Simca | it wouldn't, just an example |
| 22:23.02 | Maldivia | Simca: not to mention, they actually _know_ the format |
| 22:25.21 | relaxok | i need to implement sending "SET_GLUE_SCREEN" |
| 22:25.26 | relaxok | otherwise nothing shows |
| 22:25.29 | relaxok | i had been hacking the lua to do it |
| 22:28.19 | Simca | relaxok: posting it in a sec |
| 22:28.40 | Simca | it's kind of hard to read though because this tool captured every time WoW even looked at the files, and it looks a lot. |
| 22:28.57 | Simca | there is a section here though where it alternates back and forth between various SharedXML and GlueXML files] |
| 22:30.15 | relaxok | yeah, stuff in gluexml loads ..\sharedxml\blah |
| 22:30.26 | relaxok | but then some of those files have UIParent as parent |
| 22:30.44 | Simca | http://pastebin.com/EyjBYyaT |
| 22:31.44 | Simca | i think the sections where the order is totally alphabetical is where warden is checking file integrity |
| 22:32.22 | relaxok | thanks |
| 22:32.27 | relaxok | wooo got audio working now |
| 22:32.34 | relaxok | after finding out about the filedata thing |
| 22:32.37 | relaxok | whichever one of you told me that |
| 22:32.45 | relaxok | login screen playing music+ambience |
| 22:33.19 | Simca | I think the section from line 3244+ is where it starts loading the UI |
| 22:34.25 | relaxok | what is the Cache folder exactly? |
| 22:34.31 | relaxok | man i wish there was a better repository of all this information |
| 22:34.47 | Simca | Cache folder contains ADBs and WDBs |
| 22:35.28 | Simca | WDBs are the original cache format - they contain information that is not contained in dbcs but downloaded from the server during play |
| 22:36.00 | Simca | ADBs serve the same function but unlike WDBs, which have an extremely wonky structure, ADBs are mirrors of the DB2 files with the same name |
| 22:36.09 | Amarande | wow, WoW is down to #29 on the most popular games list on GameFAQs ... FFXIV is kicking its bum |
| 22:36.36 | Simca | they have the same headers and structure - ADBs just contain data that the db2 version didn't have so it had to request from the server |
| 22:36.39 | relaxok | Simca: first , why does it need mirrors of DB2 files which are already in the game? |
| 22:36.49 | relaxok | Simca: ah |
| 22:36.52 | Amarande | wonder if WoD release will ghost-town the other MMOs as people flock back to WoW or if this is old-age retirement for Azeroth heh |
| 22:37.02 | relaxok | according to that file pull, FrameXML.toc isnt even loaded at all in that log |
| 22:37.04 | Simca | for example, blizzard likes to hide items |
| 22:37.07 | relaxok | and GlueXML.toc etc is |
| 22:37.09 | relaxok | so |
| 22:37.11 | relaxok | i dunno |
| 22:37.18 | Maldivia | Amarande: considering you have to unlock every single dungeon etc in FF14, and it's not all intuitive where you do that, kind of makes sense |
| 22:37.50 | Simca | yeah I think line 3844 is the first loaded UI bits, relaxok |
| 22:37.57 | relaxok | Simca: that reminds me of a LOOONG time ago, in Vanilla.. you could link items you hadn't inspected or something at one time.. so people linking naxx gear item links was like woahh |
| 22:38.07 | relaxok | Simca: and i think if you tried by id and hadnt seen it, it logged you out |
| 22:38.14 | relaxok | couldn't link items* |
| 22:38.45 | Maldivia | only if that item wasn't seen on the server before :) |
| 22:38.46 | Esamynn|work | used to be you got DC's for linking something in chat that had not yet been seen on your server |
| 22:38.47 | Simca | yep. item data is stored in item-sparse.db2. If you haven't seen the item, you will send a request to the server, and if you get the info, your client will store the received info in item-sparse.adb |
| 22:38.47 | Esamynn|work | correct |
| 22:39.00 | relaxok | sorry, yeah, seen on the server |
| 22:39.01 | Esamynn|work | they gave up on that soon after they started cross-realm stuff |
| 22:39.06 | relaxok | although i thought it included stuff you saw in battlegrounds too? |
| 22:39.35 | Simca | so db2s are filled with stuff blizzard decided to ship with the client, ADBs/WDBs are for things they don't ship with the client but still want cached |
| 22:39.36 | Esamynn|work | this was before BGs were cross realm |
| 22:39.44 | relaxok | i guess they mainly realized that when you can login to wowhead or something and see the tooltip, it doesnt make much sense to hide it in game |
| 22:40.00 | relaxok | thottbot i guess was the precusor |
| 22:40.02 | relaxok | cursor |
| 22:40.29 | Maldivia | you still can't get the tooltip for items not shipped with the client, until it's been seen on the server |
| 22:40.45 | Maldivia | but it doesn't DC you anymore (only after too many request over a period of time) |
| 22:40.52 | relaxok | huh.. really? |
| 22:41.05 | relaxok | i thought you could just link anything from the loot lists in the dungeon info etc? |
| 22:41.18 | Simca | you can if it has been seen ever |
| 22:41.28 | relaxok | hmm |
| 22:41.31 | relaxok | ok |
| 22:41.39 | Simca | in vanilla, it was restricted so that a person with the item had to have logged in since the last server restart |
| 22:41.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Trela (~alexia@c-71-207-204-118.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 22:41.49 | Maldivia | if you can see it in the lootlist in the journal, you can link it, but there are items that aren't available there |
| 22:41.50 | Esamynn|work | I would imagine anything in the dungeon journal loot lists would be counted as "seen" :) |
| 22:41.55 | Simca | now, it doesn't matter if they logged in, just matters if it ever dropped or existed |
| 22:42.22 | Simca | funnily, since the server loads all the quests when it is booted |
| 22:42.26 | Esamynn|work | Simca: "back in the good ol' days..." ;) |
| 22:42.39 | Simca | you can retrieve the information for every quest item ever, even the ones nobody will ever see |
| 22:42.56 | Simca | not terribly useful though usually |
| 22:43.15 | Maldivia | except for thos legendary quest chain rewards :P |
| 22:43.21 | Simca | indeed |
| 22:43.37 | relaxok | Simca: so im a bit clueless here then.. back to the ui order.. if gluexml stuff lodas things with uiparent and it hasnt been included yet.. wtf.. |
| 22:43.57 | relaxok | Simca: there's only one case in the entire game ive seen where that happened before.. TaxiFrame was referenced as a parent before TaxiFrame was loaded, or something like that |
| 22:44.09 | Maldivia | perhaps it sets UIPArent=GlueParent in the C ode, or somethere in the Glue ? |
| 22:44.09 | Simca | where is UIParent defined? |
| 22:44.23 | relaxok | Simca: UIParent.xml in framexml, and its loaded near the top of the toc |
| 22:44.57 | relaxok | its possible the parent is just parsed as a string first and then doesnt need to check if that is defined until it needs to access the parent? |
| 22:45.05 | relaxok | hopefully inherit tags all exist already though |
| 22:45.06 | Simca | welp, i tried to load this in a MoP client to see if the order was different but it just crashed all over |
| 22:45.26 | relaxok | if not im totally screwed |
| 22:46.28 | Esamynn|work | relaxok: I suspect that might be true in the case of virtual frames |
| 22:46.53 | relaxok | Esamynn|work: i haven't yet come across a case where the inherited type wasnt already defined when something that uses it is parsed |
| 22:47.00 | relaxok | so i hoped/prayed that was on purpose |
| 22:47.19 | Esamynn|work | I would expect so, with, as I said, the possible exception of virtual frames |
| 22:47.34 | relaxok | well the inherited types are all virtual |
| 22:47.37 | relaxok | no? |
| 22:47.41 | relaxok | ah maybe not |
| 22:48.14 | Esamynn|work | inherited type, sorry, not sure what you mean by that |
| 22:48.18 | Simca | weeeeeird relaxok |
| 22:48.25 | Simca | UIParent.xml is not in this list |
| 22:48.40 | Simca | is it possible it isn't loaded until you log in? |
| 22:48.44 | Simca | I only went to the login screen |
| 22:48.55 | Esamynn|work | I would expect that Simca |
| 22:49.07 | Maldivia | relaxok: from GlueParent.lua |
| 22:49.08 | Maldivia | -- TODO: actually rename GlueParent to UIParent |
| 22:49.09 | Simca | the login screen is part of the UI now though |
| 22:49.10 | Maldivia | UIParent = self; |
| 22:49.15 | relaxok | Simca: GlueParent is used |
| 22:49.17 | relaxok | AHH |
| 22:49.21 | relaxok | Maldivia unlocks the secret |
| 22:49.21 | Esamynn|work | oh |
| 22:49.28 | Esamynn|work | DIRTY DIRTY CHEATERS! |
| 22:49.45 | relaxok | i bet that's hacked in code |
| 22:49.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~Funkeh`@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 22:50.12 | relaxok | if you're working with the gluexml toc, rename uiparent to glueparent |
| 22:50.17 | relaxok | or something |
| 22:50.19 | Simca | I suppose sed for GlueParent to UIParent would have taken a full 20 keystrokes and was too difficult? |
| 22:50.20 | Amarande | Maldivia: it would be nice if WoW went back to such unlocking schemes :) |
| 22:50.23 | Esamynn|work | could be worse, they could have faked it in C land instead of just a Lua land hack ;) |
| 22:50.30 | Simca | that todo message is longer than the command to fix the problem |
| 22:50.30 | Simca | lol |
| 22:50.38 | Amarande | as it is, they seem to try to fast-track us to endgame ever increasingly |
| 22:50.45 | Amarande | because, you know, life is a single instance LOL |
| 22:50.51 | Esamynn|work | haha |
| 22:51.20 | Amarande | sadly, it seems like many raiders think that though :( apparently it's also why professions are being scaled back for WoD |
| 22:51.28 | relaxok | holy shit is so fucking awesome to have sound playing! |
| 22:51.46 | relaxok | it's* |
| 22:51.51 | Amarande | because there are too many raiders that seem to think having to actually do anything other than show up on raid night and do the one instance is a tedious chore :P |
| 22:52.26 | Amarande | like ... ooookay, if the game is a tedious chore, how about don't play it? don't QQ to Blizz and get things simplified for everyone and there less to do just so you have to do less, *sigh* |
| 22:52.39 | relaxok | yeah, i dont understand botters either |
| 22:52.50 | Amarande | yeah, botters I do not understand either |
| 22:53.03 | Maldivia | Amarande: you mean like run to azshara to get a aqual quintessence for that nights MC run? |
| 22:53.05 | Amarande | like, hey, let's buy shiny new fun game ... so we can let the computer play it by itself? *facepalm* |
| 22:53.06 | relaxok | there's people that bot bgs and then try to sit there and lose on purpose in arenas for points too |
| 22:53.16 | relaxok | wtf ARE you doing with the game if that's how you spend your time in it? |
| 22:54.11 | relaxok | getting rid of the importance of consumables in raiding i think got rid of one of the aspects of organizational interest from vanilla imo |
| 22:54.17 | Maldivia | looks at skyrim, and the cardboard piece stick so I'm constantly running forward in sneak mode, to level up |
| 22:54.18 | Esamynn|work | for some portion of ppl, they don't really have fun at the game anymore, but they don't want to leave the community |
| 22:54.21 | relaxok | and actually having to prepare |
| 22:54.44 | relaxok | it's so weird now.. you can use consumables but 1 per fight? |
| 22:54.48 | relaxok | might as well not have them |
| 22:55.04 | Esamynn|work | Maldivia: there is an easier solution... it's called the dev console :P |
| 22:55.14 | Amarande | yeah, apparently for instance enchants just aren't cool anymore |
| 22:55.18 | Maldivia | Esamynn: I know, and mods, etc :) |
| 22:55.22 | Amarande | they're seen as "another tedious step you have to endure every time you get a new piece of gear" |
| 22:55.28 | relaxok | lol |
| 22:55.31 | relaxok | did they really get rid of the,? |
| 22:55.32 | relaxok | them? |
| 22:55.36 | relaxok | i havent followed details that closely for wod |
| 22:55.42 | relaxok | is it just visual enchants now? |
| 22:55.48 | kd3 | enchants are still in. gems are in, but drastically reduced. reforging is gone gone gone |
| 22:55.53 | Amarande | relaxok: no, the old enchants are staying, but are being nerfed so they don't work past 90 |
| 22:56.02 | Esamynn|work | Maldivia: I think I've got more than 100 mods on my skyrim last time I looked... mostly graphics enhancements and high level balance mods |
| 22:56.04 | Amarande | after 90, there's only enchants for a few specific slots |
| 22:56.06 | Maldivia | I miss drums, and organizing the usages of the drums :P |
| 22:56.28 | Maldivia | *cough* inventory weight mod *cough* |
| 22:56.29 | Amarande | and gem sockets are apparently something you have to randomly hope to get from dropped gear |
| 22:56.41 | Esamynn|work | oh yes... I have a potion weight mod ;) |
| 22:56.44 | relaxok | i remember herbing dreamfoil during the off nights from raidign so i could have it for ppl to make fire pots for MC/BWL |
| 22:56.51 | Esamynn|work | all potions == 0.1 |
| 22:57.05 | Amarande | I'm not sure why they keep caving in to the people who whine that "it's too much work" and only want to show up the four hours a week one night for raid |
| 22:57.07 | relaxok | not difficult, but feeling like you need to actually prepare for a raid was enjoyable |
| 22:57.22 | relaxok | maybe they could allow unlimited consumables for mythic raiding |
| 22:57.22 | Esamynn|work | and I said goodbye to recharging weapon enchants a long time ago as well ;) |
| 22:57.28 | relaxok | go back to that old 40 man feeling |
| 22:57.28 | Amarande | unless the enchant/reforge thing is somehow twistedly justified as an anti-ninja measure as well :P |
| 22:58.11 | kd3 | ugh. 40-mans were more an effort in logistics than anything else |
| 22:58.19 | Esamynn|work | well, come on, preparing am item for use realy had gotten ludicrious |
| 22:58.20 | Amarande | because one of the major ways of ensuring that someone actually needed the item and didn't just ninja it, is to make sure they're actually going to use it ... but how can you tell, when they're going to have to go enchant and reforge first before it's a good idea for them to equip it? |
| 22:58.21 | kd3 | I've still got a group-assignment macro lying around somewhere |
| 22:58.33 | Esamynn|work | ppl want to just be able to equip a new shiny |
| 22:58.42 | Amarande | I suppose they'll say that nerfing item enhancements helps combat ninjas, because now you can be more strict about challenging someone to equip the loot right away |
| 22:58.49 | Maldivia | double-firelord pull in MC in the very beginning... ugh.. |
| 22:58.56 | relaxok | kd3: kinda true, but i think the guilds that will be running serious Mythic are an 'anything it takes' mindset.. not the people trying to reduce any and all extra effort required to play |
| 22:59.20 | Amarande | yeah, it seems like it's that intermediate player mindset ... oh gods, what have we done :( |
| 22:59.49 | Amarande | See, hardcores didn't mind professions because it was an understood part of taking every measure there was |
| 23:00.07 | Amarande | Casuals don't mind professions, often a lot of casuals even find crafting to be one of their favourite parts of the game |
| 23:00.30 | relaxok | i dunno why, but part of what I really enjoy is just having BiS gear lists and trying to upgrade each slot as I go.. always gives you something to try for |
| 23:00.33 | Amarande | it seems to be that "in between" type of player most prone to the "it's tedious toil, whine whine" mindset |
| 23:00.52 | Amarande | maybe there was something to be said for that elitism from back in the BC days after all ... oh gods, what have we done :( |
| 23:01.01 | kd3 | the problem comes in when a large part of the population goes "not BiS? garbage" then "I'm never getting loot!" |
| 23:01.09 | relaxok | lol |
| 23:01.28 | relaxok | i cant believe they finally caved to the random loot is random whiners |
| 23:01.33 | Amarande | kd3: I suppose that's a downside on elitism, though heh |
| 23:01.44 | relaxok | with the personal loot and increased chances etc.. |
| 23:01.45 | Amarande | that mentality is probably encouraged by groups that demand their members HAVE BiS everything |
| 23:01.47 | relaxok | that just goes against every single game ever |
| 23:01.50 | relaxok | rpg wise |
| 23:02.03 | Amarande | and if you did dare to equip the second-string item, "noooooooob, you don't even know how to gear" |
| 23:02.07 | relaxok | man, i miss raiding =~( |
| 23:02.26 | Esamynn|work | the game is balanced a a MUCH finer razor's edge that it ever was in Vanilla or TBC |
| 23:02.33 | Amarande | especially after gearscore died out, probably, ironically enough (gearscore probably muddied the waters come to think of it, since things like PvP gear could often easily inflate your GS) |
| 23:02.33 | relaxok | i quit after ulduar, then just did lfg ICC later .. havent really logged in much since |
| 23:02.51 | Amarande | starts to seem like all those elitist jerk measures may have been good for the game after all *sigh* |
| 23:02.56 | relaxok | but i was very serious from launch/ony/MC all the way through ulduar |
| 23:04.05 | Maldivia | Esamynn: no no, vanilla warlocks were perfectly balanced :P |
| 23:04.08 | Amarande | even though I always railed against them, because I didn't have the gs in Wrath and I didn't have an unchanging enough work schedule to get in a BC guild demanding 4-5 fixed nights a week, and having hit 70 late, no PuG way to get geared |
| 23:04.15 | Esamynn|work | ~lart Maldivia |
| 23:04.15 | purl | slaps Maldivia upside the head with a wet fish |
| 23:04.22 | Esamynn|work | ~botsnack |
| 23:04.22 | purl | Esamynn|work: aw, gee |
| 23:04.24 | Amarande | (don't know vanilla, I didn't start till 2.2) |
| 23:05.01 | Amarande | but yeah, now it almost seems like the "dedicated or go home" setup was actually a GOOD thing |
| 23:05.15 | Esamynn|work | O_o |
| 23:05.17 | Esamynn|work | are you insane? |
| 23:05.22 | Amarande | and that accessibility might have gone a little far |
| 23:05.32 | relaxok | my vanilla guild was kind of bad.. never really finished BWL.. but my late BC guild was incredible.. killed vashj on the first week of attempts and kaelthas soon after |
| 23:05.51 | relaxok | the game is much more fun playing with people that care about being good |
| 23:05.57 | Amarande | Esamynn: well, like I said ... it seems like the intermediate player tier (which had barely any place in the days of yore) is the one that seems to beat most of the "simplification" drums |
| 23:05.59 | relaxok | not hardcore but just not shitty |
| 23:06.05 | relaxok | following directions |
| 23:06.28 | Esamynn|work | sounds like exactly what Flex was designed for |
| 23:06.32 | kd3 | wow is a hell of a lot more accessible than it ever was. it should ever strive to be more accessible. this coming from a world #3 raider in AQ |
| 23:06.51 | Amarande | Hardcores feel like simplication is dumbing down, casuals don't care and often even like some of the features that you can mainly handle solo, like crafting |
| 23:07.20 | Esamynn|work | this is why I think it's a godo thing they've split raiding into 4 different difficulties |
| 23:07.48 | Amarande | Intermediate players? They want to do the latest raid so they feel like they're ahead of the curve and not have to put all that much effort into the game :P |
| 23:08.40 | *** join/#wowuidev tardmrr (~tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 23:08.40 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tardmrr] by ChanServ |
| 23:08.57 | Amarande | yeah, I don't like the profession changes at all, though, nor does it seem like anything's being done about the funneling |
| 23:09.23 | Amarande | i.e., the fact that everyone gets pushed to a couple of instances, usually dropping to just one once the second tier of expansion is out |
| 23:09.30 | Esamynn|work | I'm not really up-to-date on the profession changes |
| 23:09.50 | relaxok | kd3: i think they went too far down that path before realizing there's a way to develop/design so that hardcores are still pleased.. high end raiding has never been better or harder i think |
| 23:10.04 | Amarande | Esamynn: enchants severely scaled back, jewelcrafting ITSELF apparently not changing much but sockets being made extremely limited |
| 23:10.14 | Esamynn|work | yes, I knew that much |
| 23:10.23 | Esamynn|work | and good riddance |
| 23:10.32 | Amarande | lots of glyphs moving to auto-learn |
| 23:10.42 | kd3 | the point is that professions should be something for you to do, not something to min-max |
| 23:10.44 | Amarande | and profession 'perks' going away, and just what qualifies as a perk seems to be a little foggy as yet |
| 23:10.55 | Esamynn|work | no kidding |
| 23:11.14 | Esamynn|work | okay, so nothing majorly new in the last month on that front |
| 23:11.14 | Amarande | like has it been indicated yet whether goggles will be a thing for engineers still or is BoP epic gear a perk? that kind of thing |
| 23:11.16 | Esamynn|work | alright then, I' |
| 23:11.16 | relaxok | kd3: i like the idea of propfessions being more guild-oriented.. things your guildies look to you for.. as a solo person the only thing it can really do is make you stuff to sell |
| 23:11.23 | relaxok | kd3: or i guess, special prof only items for you |
| 23:11.40 | Amarande | relaxok: yeah, that's one thing that's always made me a little sad regarding professions |
| 23:11.57 | Amarande | the fact that they're so often only really useful to be traded, rather than something to help you out as well |
| 23:12.17 | Amarande | (the usual problem being that by the time you're able to craft XYZ, you've outleveled it) |
| 23:12.53 | relaxok | int CUserInterfaceManager::LUA_IsSystemSupported( lua_State* L ) { CLua::pushnumber( 1 ); return 1; } |
| 23:13.16 | relaxok | hax |
| 23:13.20 | Amarande | I like the idea that you should be able to craft yourself some good shinies as you level, in fact perhaps be independent of what quests and the RNG hand you |
| 23:13.20 | Esamynn|work | rofl |
| 23:13.38 | Esamynn|work | relaxok: it's called an "extension point" |
| 23:13.48 | Amarande | not EVERYTHING of course or there'd be no point to trading, but say you're a tailor, you should be able to level up in tailored gear for slots that accept it |
| 23:14.34 | Amarande | as it is, so much of the crafted leveling gear (unless it's a hot looking mog, anyway) is of little use but to DE |
| 23:14.36 | relaxok | Esamynn|work: i have tons of placeholder stuff like that |
| 23:14.55 | relaxok | Esamynn|work: my PlaceholderAPIMethods include file still has >2500 functions from the wow api in it |
| 23:15.00 | relaxok | they just return nil |
| 23:15.16 | relaxok | sometimes thats bad and they need return 1 |
| 23:15.20 | relaxok | so i have a separate list |
| 23:15.23 | Amarande | though I'm not sure that's professions' fault really ... that's probably more the too-fast leveling system, and blizzard probably has little player incentive to fix it because players WANT to level fast and usually have looms so aren't even LOOKING for leveling gear |
| 23:15.26 | relaxok | soo many fucking functions! |
| 23:15.44 | Amarande | hrm. what's the only slot you can't easily loom nowadays? ring? |
| 23:15.46 | relaxok | i wonder if its all really in a giant file like i'm doing |
| 23:15.57 | Amarande | (maybe neck? can't remember if there are neck looms yet or not) |
| 23:16.18 | relaxok | loom? |
| 23:16.21 | kd3 | http://wowpedia.org/Heirloom |
| 23:16.25 | relaxok | oh |
| 23:16.25 | Amarande | relaxok: heirloom gear |
| 23:16.35 | relaxok | sorry hadnt heard someone use that |
| 23:16.45 | Amarande | and I'm pretty sure by now it's readily available for all slots except for jewelry |
| 23:16.51 | Esamynn|work | relaxok: ahh, now I understand |
| 23:17.45 | Amarande | (there's still no neck heirloom, and the ring is still difficult to obtain, plus is Unique-Equipped so that's at least 2 slots you have to update with normal gear when leveling) |
| 23:18.42 | Amarande | there were supposed to be more rings at one point, think they're on wowhead but they never got put in the game |
| 23:19.16 | Amarande | for practical purposes heirloom jewelry is a concept that's dying out, though (since the ring is actually getting harder and harder to get, not easier) |
| 23:21.18 | Amarande | yeah, that's another thing I don't get about players in WoW compared to other MMOs these days |
| 23:21.54 | Amarande | in most other MMOs, people find the leveling rate to be just right, and like to smell the roses along the way up ... in WoW, there's this mad lemming rush to get to max level and get ready for the latest raid |
| 23:22.20 | Mr_Rabies | that's because most mmo's don't even last long as long as that period did in wow :p |
| 23:22.32 | Mr_Rabies | er minus the first "long" |
| 23:22.58 | Mr_Rabies | most people already took their time and smelled the roses in 2004-2006 or so |
| 23:23.09 | Amarande | actually, that's probably an interesting statistic |
| 23:23.14 | Mr_Rabies | i mean |
| 23:23.21 | Amarande | how many present wow players joined the game in what year, that is |
| 23:23.31 | Mr_Rabies | a TON of people turned to botting after vanilla was out for so long |
| 23:23.37 | Mr_Rabies | no one wanted to do that grind anymore |
| 23:23.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@74.226.95.121) |
| 23:23.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 23:23.52 | Amarande | does the game continue to attract new players in droves any more than any other MMO does, or does it just survive on a large established veteran base? |
| 23:24.50 | Mr_Rabies | thats why blizzard dropped the hammer on glider so hard |
| 23:25.02 | Mr_Rabies | a huge huge chunk of people were using it to bypass the grind |
| 23:25.39 | Amarande | yeah, I suppose even an endgame oriented game like WoW can't maintain its interest forever |
| 23:26.03 | Amarande | some games I can definitely grok the reason why people take their time leveling ... especially ones that are heavily story oriented |
| 23:26.08 | Mr_Rabies | wow really wasn't endgame oriented until later in tbc |
| 23:26.22 | Mr_Rabies | it had a good 3-4 year run as a game that was about the journey |
| 23:26.30 | Mr_Rabies | eventually people grew tired of the journey |
| 23:26.41 | Amarande | because it seems to be a thing for the story to be great as you're leveling up, but to get less and less love at cap or expansions |
| 23:27.10 | Amarande | SW:TOR is a good example, 1-50 is really fun, because the story is still that great Bioware stuff ... but you hit 50 and it flops down like an ice cream cone in July |
| 23:27.34 | Amarande | (well more like 52, since since the level cap increase you usually get a couple levels past 50 during late story) |
| 23:27.49 | Mr_Rabies | TERA has a terrible story, terrible endgame, terrible quest design, terrible world design |
| 23:27.58 | Mr_Rabies | just about the only good thing is the actual combat gameplay |
| 23:28.07 | Mr_Rabies | terrible character design |
| 23:28.09 | Amarande | heh sometimes that's enough, look at Diablo II |
| 23:28.16 | Mr_Rabies | art design i guess |
| 23:28.31 | Mr_Rabies | Diablo II had a neat story for the time |
| 23:28.45 | Amarande | did anyone ever really play Diablo II for the quests or the story or the world design all that much? it was about breaking open them loot pinatas :) |
| 23:28.52 | Mr_Rabies | it wasn't Baulder's Gate, but it was dark and gruesome and crazy |
| 23:29.01 | Dashkal | Amarande: >.> |
| 23:29.12 | Dashkal | raises hand |
| 23:29.16 | Amarande | guess it probably didn't help that on a lot of windows setups people couldn't even play the cinematics properly |
| 23:29.18 | Mr_Rabies | i played Diablo 2 somewhat for the story, the gameplay kept me playing for a while |
| 23:29.30 | Mr_Rabies | i feel Diablo 3 was an improvement on D2 in almost every way |
| 23:29.31 | Amarande | Dashkal: well, yeah, when you first play it you take in the story, but after that it's about the gameplay :) |
| 23:29.42 | Mr_Rabies | most of my gripes with D3 were ones i had with D2 as well |
| 23:29.46 | Dashkal | The gameplay of a loot pinata treadmill can't hold me. |
| 23:29.56 | Dashkal | I had the same experience with D3. Played through once, enjoyed the plot. Put it down |
| 23:30.14 | Amarande | Dashkal: possibly that has to do with the somewhat MMO-hybrid skill system in D3, too |
| 23:30.29 | Dashkal | My biggest disappointment with Torchlight 2 is it really was just a retelling of Diablo 2. |
| 23:30.30 | Mr_Rabies | i love the skill system in D3 |
| 23:30.34 | Mr_Rabies | so much better than D2's |
| 23:30.36 | Mr_Rabies | so, so much better |
| 23:30.37 | Amarande | a lot of the reason the D2 treadmill was so addictive and fun was that the action was nonstop fast |
| 23:30.41 | Mr_Rabies | so many more options, not having to reroll |
| 23:30.51 | Mr_Rabies | i feel the action is faster in D3, though slower now after RoS |
| 23:30.57 | Amarande | with D3, basically everything has MMO like cooldowns |
| 23:31.17 | Mr_Rabies | depends on your class/skillset |
| 23:31.23 | Amarande | in D2, barely any skills had cooldowns and except for blizzard, hydra, and frozen orb, they tended to be pretty much unpopular |
| 23:31.23 | Mr_Rabies | i avoided most stuff with cooldowns on my monk |
| 23:31.25 | Mr_Rabies | still had a blast |
| 23:31.56 | Mr_Rabies | i didn't like the ability spam in D2, myself |
| 23:31.58 | Amarande | oh, and meteor ... but meteor was an acquired taste it seemed |
| 23:32.03 | Mr_Rabies | it was gaudy and incomprehensible |
| 23:32.18 | Amarande | I'm guessing that kind of ability spam is technically infeasible anymore though, to a degree |
| 23:32.40 | Mr_Rabies | it'll require a much beefier system, but in D2 it was just more sprites |
| 23:32.47 | Amarande | perhaps irresponsible even in this day and age where inter-ISP bandwidth links are getting saturated to the point that ISPs are trying to discriminate content :p |
| 23:33.04 | Arrowmaster | why is it so fucking difficult to get the linux version of ut2004 |
| 23:33.15 | Amarande | but mostly, I start to suspect things like a global cooldown exist for the sake of ensuring the servers don't melt down |
| 23:33.40 | Amarande | from what I understand, even spamming skills legitimately too long in D2 could get you a temp ban |
| 23:34.00 | Mr_Rabies | global cooldown helps make the game more latency-agnostic |
| 23:34.03 | Amarande | they didn't really have any game design limitations to control server load, so they had to temp ban players who'd played too much too quickly to make room for others :P |
| 23:34.13 | Mr_Rabies | now if your latency is really high you're in hell with the GCD |
| 23:34.21 | Mr_Rabies | but for most it evens the playing field quite a bit |
| 23:34.33 | Mr_Rabies | it's not twitchy and about who has the best ping |
| 23:35.00 | Amarande | that's probably true, though I thought ping pretty much lost its importance when broadband became readily accessible |
| 23:35.09 | Mr_Rabies | not at all |
| 23:35.37 | Amarande | the whole LPB complaining thing in the 90s was because ping had such an effect AND because so many gamers basically didn't even have the option of getting a good ping |
| 23:35.41 | Mr_Rabies | especially since you're possibly in pvp with people in oceania or latin america in WoW |
| 23:35.59 | Mr_Rabies | they have a 300 ping, you have a 35 ping |
| 23:36.04 | Amarande | back then to get a good ping you lived in some dense metro area where a shoebox apartment is $2000+ a month, or you had to be an on campus student |
| 23:36.14 | Mr_Rabies | without a GCD that's gonna go to the guy with the 35 ping every time |
| 23:36.17 | Amarande | otherwise you sucked up your dialup |
| 23:36.23 | Mr_Rabies | but with it, the playing field is much more even |
| 23:36.37 | Amarande | ahhh ... intercontinental ping, never really knew just how bad that got |
| 23:37.01 | Amarande | especially given that in wow unless you deliberately play on an oceanic server from the us or vice versa it's pretty difficult to spike your ping like that |
| 23:37.02 | Mr_Rabies | not just intercontinental, i've heard a lot of international connectivity on the same continent can be bad for EU realms, etc |
| 23:37.08 | Amarande | maybe if I played sw:tor on a europe server I'd notice it more |
| 23:37.20 | Mr_Rabies | the oceanic and latin american servers are hosted in the US, Amarande |
| 23:37.35 | Mr_Rabies | the EU servers are all hosted in...france? |
| 23:37.39 | Amarande | huh, that's weird, given that Europe is not all that huge geographically ... except for Russia it's what, about the size of the USA, maybe smaller? |
| 23:37.54 | Semlar | russia is in asia |
| 23:37.57 | Amarande | unless the latency is introduced by crap like spook filters at the border :| |
| 23:38.28 | Amarande | a route that goes across europe probably goes through several "spying on the international communications" filters before it hits destination, I suppose :p |
| 23:38.29 | Mr_Rabies | international connectivity is always gonna be worse than intranational |
| 23:38.45 | Amarande | and nobody really knows how much latency those add (that's probably secret) |
| 23:38.46 | Semlar | europe is like 2/3 the size of the us |
| 23:38.51 | Mr_Rabies | usually through a handful of big backbones instead of a giant grid/web like intranational |
| 23:39.14 | Amarande | pretty sure the US uses "a handful of big backbones" too |
| 23:39.26 | Amarande | but you don't really notice much lag between EST and PST or vice versa |
| 23:39.32 | Mr_Rabies | it's certainly better connected between states in the US than say, to canada or mexico |
| 23:39.48 | Amarande | heh, spying is almost definitely a factor there :p |
| 23:40.05 | Mr_Rabies | to an extent, but it's also more traffic focused on fewer points going between countries |
| 23:40.09 | Amarande | maybe if these nations would learn to stop friggin spying all the time we'd have better communications links :) |
| 23:40.22 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@75-175-2-74.ptld.qwest.net) |
| 23:40.32 | Mr_Rabies | you want to keep track of the connections to other nations more than those inside the nation |
| 23:40.44 | Mr_Rabies | fewer connections are easier to keep track of |
| 23:41.07 | Amarande | this seems to be an issue with nearly every new piece of technology though *sigh* |
| 23:41.29 | Mr_Rabies | borders will hamstring us as long as we live |
| 23:41.55 | Mr_Rabies | even if we colonize space and/or other celestial bodies, we'll create borders between terrestrials and spacenoids |
| 23:41.55 | Amarande | it starts out. it matures into its golden age. then it gets forcibly pushed into a permanent state of tarnished because government decides it needs to be kept "safe" for people, even if it noticeably weakens its performance from golden-age |
| 23:42.22 | Mr_Rabies | it's human nature to create constructs to seperate "us" from "them" |
| 23:42.56 | Amarande | one wonders just how much potential we throw into the garbage can every year because we seem to have that obsessive valuation of "safe" |
| 23:43.17 | Amarande | especially nowadays ... for some reason "safe" (quotation marks, because like "secure", there is no absolute) seems to be increasingly valued, to the expense of almost everything else tbh |
| 23:43.55 | Mr_Rabies | mazlowe's hierarchy of needs, even when the needs and solutions are constructs that don't really exist, still is a factor |
| 23:44.03 | Mr_Rabies | er mazlow |
| 23:44.08 | Mr_Rabies | maslow |
| 23:44.14 | Mr_Rabies | i can't type holy hell lol |
| 23:44.21 | Amarande | yeah, it probably always has been ... just seems like people seem to value being "safe" a lot more nowadays than in the past |
| 23:44.28 | Mr_Rabies | been awake for uh, 28 hours or so now lol |
| 23:44.55 | Amarande | and one wonders if there's some legitimate reason for that, i.e., whether a given level of risk really is increasingly foolhardy as years go by compared to former days, or if it's just people losing it |
| 23:45.11 | Mr_Rabies | the cold war was all about trying to achieve safety when the only reason we were in danger was powerful jerks that wanted to keep people scared |
| 23:45.40 | Amarande | the only thing I can think of is that the world's resources are almost 100% claimed and owned now ... so if you lose what you've got, you've got a long life as a pauper in front of you |
| 23:45.53 | Stanzilla | 500mb only, kd3 |
| 23:46.05 | Stanzilla | your connection can rest today |
| 23:46.23 | relaxok | Simca do you happen to know the flags of SoundEntries? |
| 23:46.29 | Amarande | I suppose back in the day, 1) a lot of disasters just meant you were dead anyway, and 2) to use game-theory, it's like one of those board games where pieces start off off the board and are entered in turn |
| 23:46.36 | Mr_Rabies | the classic example of imperialism is all but dead in the world, so we're no longer fighting over borders in the same way, instead we're insulating against the "them" |
| 23:46.44 | Mr_Rabies | it pretty much died with the world wars |
| 23:46.57 | Amarande | back then, there was still plenty of room to put in a new piece if yours got captured, now the whole board is basically controlled so you must protect what pieces you've got on the board |
| 23:47.01 | *** join/#wowuidev zz_dano5 (~dano5@208.79-160-124.customer.lyse.net) |
| 23:47.02 | Amarande | would that perhaps be the reason? |
| 23:48.53 | Maldivia | relaxok: since wow-beta patch just hit, I don't think Simca will be responding anytime soon :P |
| 23:49.09 | Simca | sorry i can check rq |
| 23:49.15 | Amarande | well nowadays you don't really need to *fight* over borders anyway, you just rook the other side into one-sided 'trade agreements' LOL |
| 23:49.18 | Alram | its the tiniest patch |
| 23:49.43 | Esamynn|work | safe from certain dangers... and not even the most dangerous ones either |
| 23:49.45 | Simca | but it has a kaliri model alram, clearly srs bsns |
| 23:49.52 | Amarande | at least in imperalistic terms, modern empires are founded from business rather than conquest |
| 23:49.59 | Maldivia | core hound mount! I want one |
| 23:50.20 | Amarande | Maldivia: sometimes I wish they'd let mounts be tamed, the way hunters tame pets |
| 23:50.30 | Amarande | like maybe make it a new profession or something |
| 23:51.02 | Amarande | although I'm not sure what it takes in animation terms to make a given beast work as a mount ... like whether they need to add new poses to all the player races &c |
| 23:51.17 | Maldivia | Amarande: well, I was referring to the new mount added in the build that was just pushed to beta :) |
| 23:54.30 | Simca | relaxok: no flags field |
| 23:54.56 | Amarande | Ah |
| 23:55.10 | Amarande | Wonder if it's going to be an in-game obtainable one or if it's going to be one you pay 25 dollars for |
| 23:55.32 | Simca | from left to right, SoundEntries.dbc in WoD is: ID, SoundType, Name, FileDataID[20], Frequency[12] |
| 23:55.39 | Simca | for a total of 35 columns |
| 23:56.19 | relaxok | Simca: that's not true |
| 23:56.29 | relaxok | Simca: there's floats in there |
| 23:56.51 | Simca | yeah i see floats in the frequencies bit |
| 23:57.01 | Simca | maybe frequencies are floats, I have no idea how sound works |
| 23:57.09 | Simca | I say words and sound happens, this is magic |
| 23:57.36 | relaxok | oh wait you're in WoD |
| 23:57.41 | relaxok | not sure.. |
| 23:57.44 | relaxok | im looking at live latest |
| 23:57.47 | Simca | ah ok |
| 23:58.06 | relaxok | looks like ID, SoundType, Name, FileData[10], Frequency[10], Volume, Flags, Mindistance, distancefaloff.. etc etc etc |
| 23:58.08 | Esamynn|work | Simca: is there some site where details on the structure of those files it kept up-to-date? every so often I want to dig into one, but not badly enough that I want to do all the work of deciphering the structure myself |
| 23:58.19 | Semlar | ha |
