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| 00:07.37 | plaw | uefi is the devil |
| 00:19.10 | airtonix | plaw: lizard lick towing has more cultural value than devils advocate or shawshank redemption. how dare you imply comcast aren't the pinacle of fine arts and culture. |
| 00:25.16 | Wobin | airtonix: Is that the culture you find on the underside of rotting fruit? |
| 00:25.42 | plaw | woots https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/ios/documentation/Metal/Reference/MetalShadingLanguageGuide/Introduction/Introduction.html |
| 00:27.26 | airtonix | noone cares about apple or ios plaw |
| 00:27.41 | airtonix | take it to #iosuidev |
| 00:33.34 | plaw | I think you missed my sarcarsm font |
| 00:48.02 | Gnarfoz | Eddardo Starku https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w2oRokNU3s |
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| 02:02.27 | airtonix | Gnarfoz: i'd totally watch the shit out of got with japanese overdubs and english subs |
| 02:03.04 | Gnarfoz | well, seems you can order it :D |
| 02:06.07 | airtonix | can you do it for me? my hands are full. |
| 02:08.19 | plaw | http://www.instructables.com/id/Recycling-CPUs-Processor-Heat/?ALLSTEPS |
| 02:12.16 | airtonix | plaw: much are being engery in heat conversion. it being good. I have tested. |
| 02:14.12 | airtonix | i feel like this guy is similar to the european internet virgin meme |
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| 03:02.01 | karl_w_w | airtonix, what would you know about internet virgins? |
| 03:11.01 | kd3 | oh wow, what a way to win an AV: http://i.imgur.com/uHwIuCx.jpg |
| 03:13.33 | karl_w_w | i once finished an av with 40-something kills and 1 death |
| 03:14.04 | karl_w_w | good old queueq premades |
| 03:16.09 | karl_w_w | winning was so easy that we'd set challenges like winning in the shortest time possible, or taking every graveyard on the map and camping their spawn tunnel |
| 03:16.49 | karl_w_w | or setting up shop in our boss dude's room and just waiting for them to turn up and annihilating them |
| 03:17.46 | airtonix | karl_w_w: your face is a premade |
| 03:18.07 | karl_w_w | why thank you |
| 03:19.19 | airtonix | http://i.imgur.com/6iIZC3i.jpg |
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| 03:33.21 | airtonix | red viper and the mountain: http://i.imgur.com/ChuyLZQ.jpg |
| 03:33.30 | airtonix | wish you were here |
| 03:51.13 | pompy | kd3: http://fox13now.com/2014/05/16/missing-wife-of-decapitated-ga-man-found-dead-in-river-family-friend-says/ dafuq! |
| 03:54.01 | karl_w_w | “the head was not removed or anything like that.” |
| 03:58.18 | karl_w_w | "Aw fiddlesticks! |
| 03:58.20 | karl_w_w | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:58.20 | karl_w_w | " thanks vimeo |
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| 04:16.04 | Simca | “This jumps us about two jumps up on the checkerboard, shall we say,” he said. |
| 04:16.12 | Simca | sheriff's statements are gold |
| 04:38.50 | airtonix | hey karl_w_w http://imgur.com/gallery/y0UKCRi |
| 04:39.34 | karl_w_w | add salt into the womb |
| 04:41.07 | airtonix | balls deep with a swag rating of 14/100 |
| 04:43.00 | airtonix | oh that was a good read |
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| 08:48.13 | zenzio | ".XYZ Domains Now Available for Immediate Registration. With instant recognition in over 125 languages, .XYZ is memorable and highly brandable." |
| 08:48.15 | zenzio | sure... |
| 08:49.23 | Shirik | obtw jleclanche I tracked down that Quassel bug |
| 08:49.27 | Shirik | or at least I have a stack trace for it now |
| 08:49.39 | Shirik | except it actually appears to be a Qt bug; I don't see how it could be Quassel's code |
| 08:49.49 | Shirik | it's deep within a Qt library |
| 08:49.56 | jleclanche | Shirik: can I see the stacktrace? |
| 08:50.19 | jleclanche | zenzio: as memorable as .insert-tld-here |
| 08:50.35 | zenzio | it amuses me every time we receive e-mails like that |
| 08:51.01 | Shirik | http://pastebin.com/vCe5iDvv |
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| 08:51.25 | jleclanche | Shirik: remind me when it crashes? |
| 08:51.32 | Shirik | it just does |
| 08:51.35 | Shirik | I don't even have to be using it |
| 08:51.43 | Shirik | I could be in a completely unrelated app |
| 08:52.04 | Arrow|phone | So bored, absolutely nothing to do after 3 hours at work |
| 08:52.13 | jleclanche | Shirik: can you try disabling the link previews? |
| 08:52.20 | Shirik | sure |
| 08:52.29 | jleclanche | let me know if it crashes again with those off |
| 08:54.04 | jleclanche | Shirik: it seems to crash on font creation |
| 08:54.18 | jleclanche | but fonts just dont get created out of the blue like that |
| 08:54.39 | jleclanche | additionally, the font creation originates from qtwebkit which is only used in the link previews |
| 08:55.06 | jleclanche | if i had to guess, but this is really fucking out there because you say it crashes while idling: it crashes when loading some css webfonts |
| 09:04.30 | Semlar | could an addon withdraw mats from the guild bank and craft an item in one click or would the delay screw that up |
| 09:04.50 | Semlar | i'm thinking it'll probably have to be done separately |
| 09:04.54 | airtonix | dear mobile app developers: Stop requiring username and password for signup and login kthxbai |
| 09:06.17 | zenzio | how would you prefer it then? |
| 09:06.21 | zenzio | OpenID? Facebook? |
| 09:06.39 | Mr_Rabies | the idea and implementation of this addon made me laugh so hard i squeaked trying to prevent from waking anyone in the house up http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/dark-souls-death-screen |
| 09:06.42 | airtonix | plz i'm on android. why would I want to login with facebook |
| 09:06.49 | airtonix | i don't even use facebook |
| 09:07.08 | Mr_Rabies | https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2v956KpzanU |
| 09:07.11 | zenzio | whether or not you use Facebook was not my question; I was asking what you would use instead of username/password |
| 09:07.25 | airtonix | if it's a developer orientated web app / mobile app: login with github/persona , otherwise login with faceboook/google/persona |
| 09:07.28 | jleclanche | Semlar: it simply wont cast the craft |
| 09:07.39 | jleclanche | Semlar: just wait for a bag update/gbank update event |
| 09:07.51 | Semlar | the craft requires a hardware event though right |
| 09:08.00 | jleclanche | right |
| 09:08.03 | airtonix | like ffs: runnable.com : not even a password recovery userflow |
| 09:08.12 | Semlar | so it would have to wait and then reenable the button or something |
| 09:08.23 | jleclanche | Semlar: maybe have just one additional button : "Find materials in guildbank" |
| 09:08.34 | jleclanche | that withdraws stuff |
| 09:08.42 | jleclanche | and let people cast if they want. it seems more useful actually |
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| 09:10.21 | Semlar | basically i'm in charge of keeping a certain number of enchants stocked in the bank and use guild materials to create them, i wanted to make an addon that just calculated the materials necessary and withdrew them |
| 09:10.39 | Semlar | and then queued up the crafts |
| 09:10.46 | airtonix | please zenzio. if you know someone at runnable.com. force them at gunpoint to include [Login with Github] |
| 09:11.24 | zenzio | I don't even know what runnable is, let alone someone who works there |
| 09:13.38 | Mr_Rabies | i know it's definitely an off-time for normal chat in here but what other death tracking/analyzing addons are there than death note? |
| 09:14.10 | airtonix | death note is cool |
| 09:14.48 | Semlar | i think there was one that showed a graph with points of health before you died but i don't know what it was called |
| 09:14.58 | Semlar | or i might be making that up |
| 09:15.04 | Mr_Rabies | skada has some basic death analysis but it's super limited |
| 09:16.45 | Semlar | it might have been this http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/details-advanced-death-logs-plug/ |
| 09:17.45 | Semlar | i haven't used it so i don't know if it's any good |
| 09:18.59 | Semlar | my own death addon just calculates how much damage they took right before dying and decides whether they were unhealable |
| 09:19.58 | Semlar | other than that it's like fatality |
| 09:20.31 | Mr_Rabies | maaaaaaan |
| 09:20.44 | Mr_Rabies | i really hope someone makes an mmo with dark souls fight mechanics |
| 09:22.00 | Mr_Rabies | thanks semlar, i'll probably just try death note for now, i just usually look at what everyone else is using |
| 09:22.06 | Mr_Rabies | but it's such a weird time that like no one's on |
| 09:22.47 | Mr_Rabies | most of america is still asleep and europe is in varying states of worktime |
| 09:23.19 | Semlar | see it pays not to sleep |
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| 09:54.10 | Semlar | um is there any way to see what skill level was required to learn a recipe |
| 09:55.27 | airtonix | wowhead maybe |
| 09:55.39 | Semlar | i don't see any way to do it from the api |
| 09:56.10 | Semlar | GetTradeSkillInfo doesn't return it |
| 09:58.08 | Semlar | i was hoping to filter out everything that wasn't from the current expansion |
| 09:58.29 | Semlar | or not relevant |
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| 09:59.43 | Simca | grab the info from wowhead, use regex/excel to get the info to an acceptable format, and throw it in a lua file as a table. i think that's the only real way |
| 10:00.04 | Semlar | i was thinking i could guess based on the spell or itemID |
| 10:00.14 | Simca | yeah, that'll probably work too |
| 10:00.22 | Semlar | if it's larger than a certain number |
| 10:00.45 | Simca | will be exceptions, so you'd need a table to override the guessing |
| 10:00.46 | Semlar | not sure how reliable that is but it might be good enough for this |
| 10:00.58 | Simca | it should be good enough, yeah, shouldn't be many issues |
| 10:01.01 | airtonix | they're called spreadsheets. not excels |
| 10:01.37 | airtonix | you don't say oh there's a commodore while pointing at a datsun |
| 10:01.44 | Simca | reread what i said |
| 10:01.46 | airtonix | you say, oh there goes a car |
| 10:02.28 | Simca | "use regex/excel to get the info to an acceptable format" - i used it correctly |
| 10:02.40 | airtonix | use regex/spreadsheet |
| 10:03.07 | Simca | wat |
| 10:03.14 | Simca | program name is acceptable in that sentence. |
| 10:03.17 | airtonix | no |
| 10:03.28 | airtonix | only if you love consumerism |
| 10:03.57 | Semlar | saying excel makes more sense than saying spreadsheet in that context |
| 10:03.58 | airtonix | got milk.. sorry i mean farmers union |
| 10:04.42 | karl_w_w | g2a seems great, but shady at the same time |
| 10:05.36 | Simca | Semlar: WoD UI screenshots at BlizzCon show that Blizz is doing expansion-based sorting of recipes in 6.0 as well, so that'll be nice |
| 10:05.42 | Simca | probably will be an API for that too |
| 10:06.14 | Semlar | this'll have to do in the meantime |
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| 10:27.49 | jleclanche | the Google EU public policy blog has a rhyming couplet on the sale of chromebooks |
| 10:27.57 | jleclanche | someone is high in that team right now |
| 10:51.37 | airtonix | i bet you they use spreadsheets |
| 10:52.27 | airtonix | instead of expecting southern korean cars to do maths |
| 11:03.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Diesal (~quassel@110-174-123-122.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 11:06.52 | Simca | do you usually get this mad any time anyone mentions a microsoft product? spreadsheets by themselves do nothing, certainly not 'maths'. the program contains the functions to apply to the sheet, making it useful. your suggestion is like replacing 'just use photoshop' with 'just use .PSD'. |
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| 11:21.40 | Mr_Rabies | not even really that, it's more like "hey i want to edit these photos and use layers and various filters and make a filetype that everyone can read" and as a response saying "use photo editing software" |
| 11:26.50 | Mr_Rabies | the response is "use photoshop" and if they say they don't wanna pay for it you say "pirate photoshop" and if they don't want to do that, then you tell them there might be some free photo editing software out there that they can combine to do most of that |
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| 11:31.31 | airtonix | Mr_Rabies: why would you condone piracy |
| 11:31.52 | airtonix | shameful |
| 11:32.50 | Semlar | i'm gonna be king of the pirates |
| 11:33.03 | Mr_Rabies | in this particular case it's because photoshop is expensive and basically irreplacable |
| 11:33.20 | Mr_Rabies | if you can afford it and/or use it professionally, you absolutely should buy photoshop |
| 11:33.57 | airtonix | why is it "irreplacable"? have you been infected by advertising memevirus? |
| 11:34.11 | Mr_Rabies | because there's nothing on the market that can replace it |
| 11:34.25 | airtonix | oh do you work in the print industry? |
| 11:34.53 | Mr_Rabies | you can work on a cocktail of other programs and try to replace it, but you really can't |
| 11:35.09 | airtonix | so you do then? |
| 11:35.15 | Mr_Rabies | it's not a good thing that it's the only option but fact is there's nothing out there that can fully replace it |
| 11:35.18 | Maldivia | there's a reason it's become a verb |
| 11:35.34 | Mr_Rabies | if i worked in the print industry i probably wouldn't suggest people pirate photoshop |
| 11:35.44 | airtonix | then why do you need it? |
| 11:35.53 | Mr_Rabies | because it does things nothing else can do that i actually use |
| 11:36.13 | Semlar | apparently only people in whatever the print industry is need photoshop |
| 11:36.15 | airtonix | the only thing it does differently than the others is cmyk support |
| 11:36.20 | Mr_Rabies | the only thing |
| 11:36.24 | airtonix | yes |
| 11:36.27 | Mr_Rabies | the only feature the free guys are missing is cmyk |
| 11:36.28 | airtonix | the.only.thing |
| 11:36.35 | Semlar | lol |
| 11:36.37 | Mr_Rabies | that's why everyone who isn't in the print industry just loves using the gimp |
| 11:36.44 | Mr_Rabies | or whatever's in vogue nowadays |
| 11:36.59 | airtonix | it's gimpjs |
| 11:37.07 | Semlar | gimp is a very poor substitute for photoshop |
| 11:37.17 | airtonix | only if you work in the print industry |
| 11:37.17 | Mr_Rabies | every time i've retried the gimp i've been disappointed |
| 11:37.47 | Mr_Rabies | the filters suck, the brushes suck, the presets suck, everything just sucks |
| 11:37.48 | Semlar | i'm a web designer and i can't imagine using gimp for work |
| 11:37.54 | airtonix | your inability to adapt isn't a reflection of the value of a piece of software |
| 11:38.08 | airtonix | why are you even using a bitmap editor for web design lawl |
| 11:38.16 | airtonix | that is hilarious |
| 11:38.23 | Semlar | i bet it is |
| 11:39.40 | Mr_Rabies | if a program fails to meet the standards of the industry, it's a reflection on its value |
| 11:40.08 | Mr_Rabies | there are plenty of paid programs that suck, but still suck less than gimp |
| 11:40.18 | Mr_Rabies | hell, i'd rather use paint.net than gimp if i only had those two choices |
| 11:40.29 | Mr_Rabies | and paint.net is insanely limited as well |
| 11:40.29 | airtonix | you're not supposed to be using a program designed to work with static medium for a dynamic medium. |
| 11:40.46 | Mr_Rabies | i think you'll find websites have both static and dynamic features |
| 11:41.06 | airtonix | that's a pretty poor assumption |
| 11:41.38 | airtonix | like all those websites that are made with the idea that mobile == iphone pixel width |
| 11:41.40 | Semlar | i wouldn't try and talk any sense into airtonix |
| 11:41.51 | Semlar | he will literally argue with anything |
| 11:42.23 | airtonix | it's ok, i know you're this way because it's something you've become comfortable with over the last twenty years |
| 11:42.39 | airtonix | paint with bitmap, slice with tables, export with button click. |
| 11:42.47 | airtonix | -> next |
| 11:42.51 | airtonix | repeat |
| 11:42.53 | Mr_Rabies | not all of us can enjoy the stallman kool-aid |
| 11:42.59 | Mr_Rabies | oh i'm sorry that's consumerist |
| 11:43.18 | Mr_Rabies | not all of us can enjoy the stallman fruit-flavored drink product |
| 11:43.21 | airtonix | hah i don't even use an image editor for antything except logo design. |
| 11:43.50 | airtonix | even then it's not a bitmap editor |
| 11:44.46 | airtonix | i won't stop you using your favourite paint brush. just dont have expectations of it being replciated to the pixel |
| 11:46.42 | airtonix | http://blog.teamtreehouse.com/pixel-perfect-front-end-development-matters#comment-37949 |
| 11:46.53 | Semlar | i can't even imagine why you would assume i'm slicing static images into a table for a website |
| 11:47.09 | airtonix | getting tired of being sent back the drawing board because your use of pixel perfection has shaped the clients expectations? |
| 11:47.52 | Mr_Rabies | that's some 1998 shit, web slices |
| 11:47.59 | Mr_Rabies | does photoshop even support that anymore? |
| 11:48.32 | Semlar | i have no idea |
| 11:48.34 | airtonix | you would not believe the amount of people that still ask for this workflow. it's insane |
| 11:49.00 | Mr_Rabies | i mean it works but |
| 11:49.12 | airtonix | no it really doesn't. |
| 11:49.15 | Mr_Rabies | if you're doing that just use something simple like gimp or paint.net or something |
| 11:49.21 | airtonix | it only results in unsatisifed expectations |
| 11:49.28 | Semlar | the only thing people want right now are responsive sites that work on any device |
| 11:49.47 | airtonix | and yet they still ask that you know how to use photoshop |
| 11:50.10 | Semlar | you can, in fact use photoshop to create graphics |
| 11:50.58 | airtonix | yes i understand, but when your requirement is not pixel perfection, or CMYK, then suddenly it doesn't matter what software you use to make the graphics (or if you even do create graphics) |
| 11:51.36 | airtonix | it also means ta only people who are tied to it are those who need cmyk or can't let go and adapt to nopsd workflow |
| 11:52.05 | Mr_Rabies | at least as of photoshop cs4, yeah it still supports web slices |
| 11:52.14 | Mr_Rabies | just checked :d |
| 11:53.13 | airtonix | were they hairy? |
| 11:53.39 | Mr_Rabies | frankly i don't even know how they work anymore, haven't done those since the glory days of paint shop pro |
| 11:53.51 | Mr_Rabies | when i designed dbz fansites in paint shop pro |
| 11:53.59 | Mr_Rabies | back when i was like 8 |
| 11:55.06 | airtonix | like that comment link i pasted mentions: the whole era of designing for slicing left the habit of designing to the pixel and wasting time trying to get a button at that exact position on some obscure platforms |
| 11:55.33 | airtonix | i still have to tell my designers "just give me a style guide, don't waste time on pixel perfection" |
| 11:55.43 | airtonix | don't give me a psd, just a png |
| 11:56.59 | Mr_Rabies | my workflow is draw it on graph paper pixel by pixel, scanning in each page, recreating it in spreadsheets, and then printing that out |
| 11:57.13 | airtonix | i love you |
| 11:57.21 | Mr_Rabies | if you can't adapt to a no-graphpaper-pixel-scanner-spreadsheet-print workflow, why even bother |
| 11:58.23 | airtonix | you're still mad about oberyn |
| 11:59.14 | Mr_Rabies | i don't even know what that is, it sounds like a terrible 90s comic book villain |
| 11:59.37 | Mr_Rabies | ah, game of thrones |
| 11:59.57 | Mr_Rabies | that's a pretty flashy name for a character in GoT, but i guess some are |
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| 12:48.24 | karl_w_w | lots of them have flashy names Mr_Rabies |
| 12:49.06 | karl_w_w | i can't remember most of them right now, but they're there! |
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| 13:18.05 | airtonix | karl_w_w: keep an eye on him... |
| 13:18.14 | airtonix | in fact ! keep two eyes on him! |
| 13:18.19 | airtonix | hur hur |
| 13:19.11 | karl_w_w | thank god that's an option, I don't know how to point my eyes in different directions |
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| 13:25.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~resa1983@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 13:36.59 | karl_w_w | so the prize pool for the TI4 dota 2 tournament is now over $8.4 million, or 72% of the combined prize pools of all league of legends tournaments to date |
| 13:37.07 | karl_w_w | how does that make you feel Shirik? |
| 13:38.28 | *** join/#wowuidev ikcerog (~ikcerog@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com) |
| 13:57.26 | nevcairiel | his game is just lol |
| 13:57.56 | Gnarfoz | ! |
| 13:57.58 | Gnarfoz | very nice, nev |
| 13:58.10 | nevcairiel | its so old and stupid, but i couldnt resist |
| 13:58.17 | nevcairiel | arent you working today |
| 14:03.25 | Gnarfoz | nope, mon/tue off |
| 14:03.37 | Gnarfoz | too bad I was sick for most of sun/mon/today >_> |
| 14:03.49 | nevcairiel | got a bit wet on your festival? |
| 14:04.16 | nevcairiel | (popular reason for being sick after going to one) |
| 14:06.19 | Gnarfoz | only on thursday, but I guess the problem was that it was quite cold on fri/sat after the sun went down |
| 14:06.38 | Gnarfoz | (and the last show ended at like 1 am, so... yeah. should have brought a scarf.) |
| 14:06.58 | nevcairiel | you could go and get your vacation day back though! |
| 14:08.51 | karl_w_w | does getting wet & cold actually give you a cold or does it simply cause the symptoms of a pre-existing cold to manifest more readily? |
| 14:10.01 | karl_w_w | [up ctrl-a ctrl-v alt-tab F6 tab ctrl-v enter] |
| 14:10.04 | nevcairiel | just being cold doesn't make you sick by itself, but it weakens you for the illness to attack you more fiercely |
| 14:11.16 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 14:11.46 | Gnarfoz | yeah, "don't go outside, you'll get wet and catch a cold" is a myth :D |
| 14:11.54 | Gnarfoz | (it's not accurate, at least) |
| 14:12.15 | Gnarfoz | I wonder how the guys who were going top-free are doing ;p |
| 14:34.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~Mihau@76.164.170.2) |
| 14:35.53 | alestane | Does anyone else find something crass about thanking your opponent when they concede? |
| 14:38.07 | Stanzilla | might be of interest for this channel, too http://blog.chromium.org/2014/06/try-out-new-64-bit-windows-canary-and.html |
| 14:46.33 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (~A-KO@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 15:03.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Unkle (~mconverse@50-0-113-124.dedicated.static.sonic.net) |
| 15:45.00 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|hate`net (~Kaydeethr@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 16:07.07 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower|Work (~MentalPow@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 16:07.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower|Work] by ChanServ |
| 16:11.37 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (~A-KO@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 16:12.47 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 16:13.57 | karl_w_w | http://i.imgur.com/DyVzmLn.jpg o.O |
| 16:14.01 | karl_w_w | unexpected |
| 16:14.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@173-8-135-209-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 16:14.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 16:14.41 | karl_w_w | rofl the si:7 agent |
| 16:26.03 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (~A-KO@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 16:29.03 | Ressy | Important Message for iPhone, iPad, and iPod Users |
| 16:29.03 | Ressy | https://us.battle.net/support/en/blog/13971358/ |
| 16:29.20 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 16:35.03 | Fisker | it's a crap Ressy ? |
| 16:35.58 | Unkle | I'm always glad I used a hardware token for that. |
| 16:35.59 | Fisker | man my brain died |
| 16:36.10 | karl_w_w | "Important Message for iPhone, iPad, and iPod Users: stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself" |
| 16:36.46 | Fisker | hey Unkle |
| 16:37.34 | Unkle | 'lo Fiskerdin |
| 16:42.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~resa1983@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 16:47.15 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@121-99-248-33.bng1.nct.orcon.net.nz) |
| 16:47.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 16:47.41 | *** join/#wowuidev g0urra (~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra) |
| 16:56.41 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 16:58.43 | karl_w_w | this apple is so disappointing |
| 16:58.52 | karl_w_w | it tastes like a leaf |
| 17:00.14 | karl_w_w | in fact I've narrowed it down, it tastes like red lettuce |
| 17:00.50 | Shirik | karl_w_w: sounds like they're trying too hard |
| 17:01.56 | karl_w_w | making a loss on your developer-organised tournaments is trying too hard ;) |
| 17:22.42 | Shirik | actually |
| 17:22.58 | Shirik | most games do make a loss on their tournaments |
| 17:23.20 | Shirik | they tend to operate like loss leaders |
| 17:23.45 | *** join/#wowuidev ikcerog (~ikcerog@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com) |
| 17:24.25 | Fisker | who are you Shirik |
| 17:26.45 | karl_w_w | not on dota 2 Shirik, dota 2 too good for that :P |
| 17:26.59 | Shirik | hey Fisker |
| 17:27.11 | Shirik | karl_w_w: I seriously doubt they're making that much money off their tournaments |
| 17:27.27 | karl_w_w | they have made $21 million already |
| 17:27.44 | karl_w_w | just from compendiums, no ticket sales |
| 17:27.50 | TC-Work | Right, so not that much. |
| 17:28.46 | karl_w_w | base prize pool was 1.6 million, 25% of compendium purchases adds to the prize pool |
| 17:28.51 | karl_w_w | rest goes to valve |
| 17:28.57 | karl_w_w | http://dota2.cyborgmatt.com/prizetracker/international2014 |
| 17:28.58 | Shirik | wtf |
| 17:29.09 | Shirik | someone sorted star wars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GFW-eEWXlc |
| 17:29.12 | Shirik | why would you do this |
| 17:29.32 | karl_w_w | lol |
| 17:30.05 | karl_w_w | i thought it was going to be that video where the guy reorded episode iv so the storyline was actually good |
| 17:30.25 | karl_w_w | re-ordered* |
| 17:33.40 | karl_w_w | a video I cannot locate now |
| 17:39.53 | *** join/#wowuidev chrippa (~chrippa@c-7f0770d5.31-2-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 17:40.51 | Gnarfoz | karl_w_w: do post it when you find it, that soudns interesting |
| 17:41.07 | kd3 | namecheap selling ssl certs on the cheap today: https://www.namecheap.com/campaigns/2014/reset-the-net.aspx |
| 17:47.56 | karl_w_w | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v5VahaEL7s Gnarfoz |
| 17:48.38 | Gnarfoz | paying for ssl certs is so 2009 |
| 17:48.48 | Gnarfoz | (at least for basic ones like that :D) |
| 17:48.58 | Gnarfoz | but I guess every little bit helps |
| 17:52.49 | Gnarfoz | also lol at pointing out the useless warranty :D |
| 18:02.10 | Dagmar | Some people aren't very bright and don't really understand how certificates work. |
| 18:02.29 | Dagmar | Actually, let's go ahead and change that from "some people" to "most people". |
| 18:02.55 | Shirik | kd3: "When the number of ssls sold"? |
| 18:03.04 | Shirik | they're selling a protocol? |
| 18:04.01 | Dagmar | ...this is particularly true of marketing people and people who make web pages. |
| 18:04.18 | Dagmar | Just be glad they managed to put up the site without accidentally pasting porno into it. |
| 18:08.13 | Gnarfoz | Shirik: they're probably referring to the (not particularly bright) product names: PositiveSSL and RapidSSL (I admit I've never heard them referred to as "a RapidSSL" instead of "a RapidSSL certificate", though) |
| 18:11.56 | Dagmar | GeoTrust is *exceptionally* hell-bent on making an SSL cert sound like something more than it really is, even for a registrar |
| 18:12.24 | Dagmar | Frankly, I think they're dipshits unparalleled. |
| 18:12.58 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 18:13.23 | Dagmar | If they were doing more than just bullshitting as much as the law would allow, they would be making arguments about why their organization is to be trusted, instead of just hand waving around trying to convince people to believe that SSL certficates themselves are "safe" |
| 18:16.02 | Gnarfoz | quite |
| 18:35.30 | *** join/#wowuidev ikcerog (~ikcerog@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com) |
| 18:40.03 | Maldivia | star wars... in alphabetical order... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GFW-eEWXlc |
| 18:41.50 | karl_w_w | bit late Maldivia :P |
| 18:42.19 | Maldivia | karl_w_w: pssh... noone sees what Shirik pastes anyway :P |
| 18:44.17 | jleclanche | ~ping |
| 18:44.17 | purl | ~pong |
| 18:50.31 | jleclanche | ~ping |
| 18:50.31 | purl | ~pong |
| 18:56.29 | jleclanche | $600 for a terabyte large high end SSD |
| 18:56.49 | jleclanche | I guess we're there |
| 18:57.15 | mikma | shirik: ping |
| 18:57.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~eandre@s213-103-203-212.cust.tele2.se) |
| 18:57.59 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 19:00.06 | jleclanche | so uh |
| 19:00.11 | jleclanche | anyone wants wildstar guest passes? |
| 19:03.11 | karl_w_w | masochism is big here? :P |
| 19:03.51 | kd3 | bleh. log in to wow to get my weeklies out of the way and I'm just using wildstar keybindings |
| 19:03.58 | Dagmar | heheh |
| 19:04.47 | foxlit | Probably not quite as bad as forgetting that you can’t steer while falling in WoW. |
| 19:05.24 | kd3 | I utterly screwed up some wildstar jumping puzzles until I realized you could do that |
| 19:05.54 | karl_w_w | so if I'm playing a game in fullscreen mode and mpc hits the next chapter on a dvd, my display driver stutters and that wddm thing steps in |
| 19:06.30 | Gnarfoz | the windows display driver model steps in? |
| 19:06.59 | karl_w_w | yes |
| 19:07.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~Thunderbi@c-98-212-84-42.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 19:07.39 | Esamynn|work | karl_w_w: translation: driver crash? |
| 19:08.04 | karl_w_w | i forget how it works, but it was introduced with wddm that if your gpu doesnt display something for a certain amount of time windows decides it needs to be rescued |
| 19:08.48 | Esamynn|work | aye, MS was tired of being blamed for the crap that is a display driver |
| 19:09.16 | Gnarfoz | oh basically you're saying "my display driver sucks"? :D |
| 19:09.18 | karl_w_w | i havent seen the error in a long time, since i quit nvidia years ago |
| 19:09.56 | Gnarfoz | solution might be: don't use hardware acceleration in mpc |
| 19:09.59 | Esamynn|work | I had to force wow back to DX9 because it kept crashing my driver running under DX11 |
| 19:10.12 | Gnarfoz | what kind of bad setups do you guys have :| |
| 19:10.40 | Esamynn|work | WoW is the only game I've ever had that problem with |
| 19:10.48 | Esamynn|work | s/game/program/ |
| 19:14.17 | karl_w_w | wow is terrible |
| 19:19.28 | *** join/#wowuidev batrick (batrick@nmap/developer/batrick) |
| 20:11.06 | Shirik | mikma: hi |
| 20:11.16 | Shirik | Maldivia: :( |
| 20:11.41 | Maldivia | :P |
| 20:14.12 | Shirik | Dagmar: I'm looking at their marketing pages now |
| 20:14.24 | Shirik | "We handpick our SSL certificates to ensure strong browser ubiquity." .... what? |
| 20:14.54 | Shirik | "The site seal is a graphic representation of your protection – it's the main reason people buy SSL." |
| 20:15.12 | Shirik | this is starting to sound like CSI |
| 20:15.48 | Dagmar | Dude it is utterly a load of bollocks |
| 20:16.25 | Dagmar | I've found that probably better than 80% of the people running SSL-enabled sites don't even understand how this stuff works in the least |
| 20:16.42 | Dagmar | ...and the CAs don't really help matters by spewing nothing but complete bullshit and snakeoil on their sites. |
| 20:17.06 | Dagmar | They're literally in the business of selling people magic numbers at a premium rate |
| 20:19.26 | Shirik | it's the greatest business model |
| 20:21.49 | Shirik | to be fair, (good) CAs do keep those numbers very secret, which is what you're really paying for |
| 20:21.51 | Shirik | but still |
| 20:21.57 | Shirik | hundreds of dollars per customer? |
| 20:23.02 | A-KO | It's marketing speak |
| 20:25.07 | A-KO | The biggest problem with CAs is that in most setups all CAs have the same weight. And it's relatively trivial in most instances to add rogue CAs to a certificate store (though, in theory, this only requires administrative rights..so) |
| 20:25.39 | Gnarfoz | at that point, you've already won |
| 20:25.48 | A-KO | yeah |
| 20:25.50 | Gnarfoz | don't see how that's a problem with CAs |
| 20:26.11 | A-KO | The issue is that there's little diligence in managing a certificate store on the administrator's part. |
| 20:26.28 | A-KO | And, all CAs are trusted equally |
| 20:26.36 | A-KO | but that's slowly changing with "site pinning" in stuff like EMET |
| 20:26.52 | Gnarfoz | Windows fetches CAs it doesn't know and adds them to the CA store, so... yeah :D |
| 20:27.01 | A-KO | It only fetches them from Microsoft |
| 20:27.08 | A-KO | and validates the connection to MS |
| 20:27.15 | Gnarfoz | I'm aware |
| 20:27.21 | Gnarfoz | it's still ridiculous |
| 20:27.26 | A-KO | Usability |
| 20:27.31 | Gnarfoz | I'm aware |
| 20:27.32 | Gnarfoz | :P |
| 20:27.45 | Gnarfoz | nobody has a good system in place |
| 20:27.54 | A-KO | manually and individually trust certs :D |
| 20:28.05 | A-KO | you can turn off cert retrieval |
| 20:28.10 | Gnarfoz | "manually" <> "good system" :D |
| 20:28.20 | A-KO | well, manually trust CAs |
| 20:28.28 | A-KO | in theory that's less problematic depending on the system |
| 20:29.07 | Gnarfoz | yay I logged in within 2 minutes of my boombox cooldown resetting |
| 20:29.10 | Gnarfoz | good timing |
| 20:29.15 | Shirik | our IT department intentionally altered our CA store once to enable MITM attacks |
| 20:29.26 | Shirik | they wanted to decrypt all of our https traffic so they could see what we were doing |
| 20:29.36 | Shirik | so they sent out an additional CA cert to the domain that they created |
| 20:29.36 | Gnarfoz | our proxy did that for years |
| 20:29.40 | A-KO | Shirik: that's standard practice |
| 20:29.41 | A-KO | *everywhere* |
| 20:29.42 | Gnarfoz | pretty normal stuff |
| 20:29.48 | A-KO | And 100% normal |
| 20:29.51 | Shirik | I wish they would spend time making our life more useful |
| 20:29.59 | A-KO | Sometimes it's compliance reasons :P |
| 20:30.02 | Shirik | like the time where for a month all DOD emails were marked as invalid |
| 20:30.11 | Shirik | because they didn't send us the new DOD CA cert |
| 20:30.26 | A-KO | that could be a DOD issue |
| 20:30.31 | A-KO | the government is fucking lazy with certs |
| 20:30.32 | A-KO | take it from me |
| 20:30.33 | A-KO | I know |
| 20:30.41 | Shirik | no I HAD the CA cert, like I could go look it up |
| 20:30.42 | A-KO | I bitch at the branch we contract for CONSTANTLY |
| 20:30.44 | Shirik | but I wasn't going to go install it |
| 20:30.49 | Shirik | because I had no way to vet it |
| 20:31.11 | Shirik | so I pinged IT for a month until they got off their asses and installed it |
| 20:31.26 | Shirik | and to be honest, I bet all they did was take the cert I was pointing at and issue it |
| 20:31.28 | Shirik | without doing any verification |
| 20:31.41 | Shirik | distribute it* |
| 20:32.01 | Jamash | I was trying to view a PDF on a .mil site and got an expired certificate warning |
| 20:32.16 | Jamash | they're bad at certs |
| 20:32.24 | Shirik | my favorite, though |
| 20:32.28 | Shirik | was when my company added this MITM thing |
| 20:32.35 | Shirik | they never validated the certificate before resigning it |
| 20:32.43 | Shirik | so if you would go to my server, which has a self-signed cert |
| 20:32.52 | Shirik | it would just resign it with our CA, making the cert look good |
| 20:33.12 | Jamash | Shirik: Has your IT department ever heard of this thing called a "proxy server"? |
| 20:33.25 | Shirik | I'm pretty sure our IT department doesn't know what a computer is |
| 20:33.55 | Jamash | it's not like there's support for automatic proxy configuration in web browsers amirite? |
| 20:33.57 | Gnarfoz | where else than on their proxy would they do this MITM thing? |
| 20:34.05 | A-KO | what Gnarfoz said |
| 20:34.07 | Gnarfoz | i.e. what are you asking/saying |
| 20:34.29 | Jamash | Gnarfoz: point being they could set browsers to use a proxy instead of trying to do it transparently via certificate fuckery |
| 20:34.30 | A-KO | The proxy terminates the SSL traffic on both ends, MITM and allowing layer 7 inspection of the application data. |
| 20:34.35 | Gnarfoz | Jamash: uhhhh |
| 20:34.39 | A-KO | Jamash: please be quiet :) |
| 20:34.47 | Jamash | A-KO: I know that |
| 20:34.53 | A-KO | The MITM/Certificate fuckery is *required* in most places. |
| 20:34.55 | Jamash | I'm saying they're doing it wrong |
| 20:34.57 | Gnarfoz | nobody said anything about it being transparent |
| 20:34.58 | A-KO | They're not |
| 20:35.13 | A-KO | There's a difference between a transparent proxy, WPAD, etc. |
| 20:35.23 | A-KO | all of them to inspect TLS traffic requires a MITM Cert |
| 20:35.28 | Gnarfoz | ^ |
| 20:35.29 | A-KO | doesn't matter which method you use |
| 20:35.46 | A-KO | WPAD is fun though |
| 20:35.51 | A-KO | lots of vulns in that one apparently |
| 20:35.51 | A-KO | :D |
| 20:36.05 | Gnarfoz | our proxy ignored the hostname you actually requested and just made the fake cert with the CN the original cert had, regardless of any subjectAltNames |
| 20:36.19 | A-KO | we turned ours off. The TLS traffic was overloading the CPU |
| 20:36.21 | A-KO | lulz |
| 20:36.24 | Gnarfoz | yep, same |
| 20:36.46 | Gnarfoz | after we got rid of our "security guy" |
| 20:37.08 | Gnarfoz | suddenly, no more slowdowns |
| 20:37.14 | A-KO | lol |
| 20:37.30 | Gnarfoz | it's still sending duplicate ACKs like a mofo, but I guess that can't be fixed without switching to another product |
| 20:38.11 | A-KO | I have to migrate two applications today: JIRA and our ticketing system from one domain to another, AND repoint the authentication |
| 20:38.18 | A-KO | tonight :/ |
| 20:38.26 | A-KO | all the while, next week plan out and build a new Exchange environment |
| 20:38.28 | A-KO | 2013 |
| 20:38.31 | Gnarfoz | you have JIRA and another ticketing system? |
| 20:38.35 | A-KO | Don't ask |
| 20:38.41 | Gnarfoz | (we do, too xD) |
| 20:38.42 | Shirik | wait |
| 20:38.48 | A-KO | It's from a time long ago |
| 20:38.49 | Gnarfoz | only our web devs use JIRA |
| 20:38.52 | A-KO | yeah |
| 20:38.54 | Shirik | so all I have to do to get them to stop decrypting SSL traffic is to spam them with SSL traffic? |
| 20:38.55 | A-KO | only our devs use JIRA |
| 20:38.57 | Shirik | and it will overload their CPU? |
| 20:39.03 | Gnarfoz | Shirik: depends on what they use |
| 20:39.08 | A-KO | Shirik: If the system isn't powerful enough, yes. |
| 20:39.14 | A-KO | If they specced it properly |
| 20:39.15 | A-KO | then no :P |
| 20:39.28 | Gnarfoz | and you probably need more than one client =p) |
| 20:39.30 | Shirik | well they might have specced it properly for normal traffic |
| 20:39.43 | A-KO | very likely |
| 20:39.44 | Shirik | but what if I accidentally run a bunch of high-speed SSL connections running overnight |
| 20:39.59 | Gnarfoz | you want this during the day |
| 20:40.01 | Gnarfoz | obviously |
| 20:40.03 | A-KO | yeah |
| 20:40.07 | A-KO | needs to run while other users are using it |
| 20:40.08 | Gnarfoz | who cares about at night? :D |
| 20:40.17 | Jamash | aright, I had incorrectly assumed that it was possible to configure a proxy so that the browser makes an encrypted connection to the proxy and the proxy then makes a second encrypted connection to the server |
| 20:40.26 | A-KO | It is |
| 20:40.28 | Gnarfoz | Jamash: that's exactly what's happening |
| 20:40.46 | Jamash | I mean, as part of the protocol, without abusing certificates |
| 20:40.55 | Gnarfoz | that'd make TLS pointless |
| 20:41.10 | A-KO | would love to stay and chat, but I'm going to head home :D |
| 20:41.11 | Shirik | no you need to swap out the cert because you can't prove your identity as the remote server |
| 20:41.19 | Shirik | obviously the remote cert doesn't notice anything, but the client will |
| 20:41.23 | Jamash | Not if it was part of the proxy protocol |
| 20:41.25 | Shirik | remote server* |
| 20:41.26 | Gnarfoz | the server your client talks to must have the private key to the cert being presented; a proxy would not have it |
| 20:41.27 | Jamash | which it isn't, so. |
| 20:42.11 | Jamash | I apologize for my naive expectation that internet standards would be designed in a sane and feature-complete fashion |
| 20:42.15 | Gnarfoz | uhhh |
| 20:42.17 | Gnarfoz | man |
| 20:42.23 | Gnarfoz | you don't get it? |
| 20:42.53 | Gnarfoz | you'd design away the entire point of TLS |
| 20:43.02 | Jamash | Gnarfoz: I get that this is a use case that the proxy protocols don't support so you have to use hackery to get around it. |
| 20:43.05 | Shirik | OMG YES THIS NEEDS TO EXIST http://www.theonion.com/video/new-facebook-feature-scans-profile-to-pinpoint-exa,36187/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default&recirc=tech-trends |
| 20:43.17 | Gnarfoz | the "proxy protocols" are HTTP |
| 20:43.23 | Gnarfoz | (S) |
| 20:43.38 | Gnarfoz | so, really, I'm not sure what you want |
| 20:43.42 | Jamash | Gnarfoz: Yes, I get it, you don't have to keep telling me what I already know |
| 20:45.12 | Jamash | Gnarfoz: Since it is useful to IT departments to support this kind of decrypt-and-reencrypt operation, there could be (but isn't) an explicit proxy mode of operation that allows the browser to delegate TLS operations to the proxy. |
| 20:45.18 | Gnarfoz | well you keep saying these things that make it sound like you think this is some kind of drawback or somebody didn't think to make it possible, when really, it would make the entire thing pointless :| |
| 20:45.42 | Jamash | Gnarfoz: ...any more so than installing mitm certificates on desktop machines? |
| 20:45.59 | Gnarfoz | sigh |
| 20:46.27 | Jamash | Gnarfoz: Could you answer the question? |
| 20:47.21 | Gnarfoz | yes, I could, but I'm tired - if you think Transport Layer SECURITY should include a mode that disables all security, then I don't know what to say |
| 20:47.45 | Jamash | no I'm suggesting that proxies should include a mode, TLS has nothing to do with it |
| 20:47.55 | Gnarfoz | ARGHGHH |
| 20:48.11 | Jamash | Just because you don't understand what I'm getting at doesn't mean I'm wrong. |
| 20:48.42 | Gnarfoz | you want to talk HTTP to the proxy but HTTPS to the remote server? |
| 20:48.47 | Jamash | no |
| 20:49.02 | Gnarfoz | then how on earth would it work |
| 20:49.52 | End | maybe it'd make sense if it was a flag that you could set on a local machine, but you want to verify the proxy and.... .... |
| 20:49.55 | Jamash | two https connections, one from client to proxy, one from proxy to server, which is *exactly the same* as with the mitm certificate except in a standardized way instead of a horrible kluge |
| 20:50.14 | Gnarfoz | that *can't work* |
| 20:50.18 | Jamash | of course it can |
| 20:50.23 | Jamash | it already does! |
| 20:50.38 | Gnarfoz | TLS is end-to-end encryption |
| 20:50.42 | Jamash | that's nice |
| 20:51.04 | Jamash | it would rely on the client trusting the proxy, which I already said |
| 20:51.19 | Gnarfoz | how would you do that trusting, then |
| 20:52.00 | Gnarfoz | the browser expects to see a certificate it trusts |
| 20:52.08 | Jamash | ...installing a certificate on the client okay fine be that way |
| 20:52.19 | Gnarfoz | \o/ |
| 20:52.21 | Jamash | still dumb |
| 20:52.39 | Gnarfoz | certainly, I wish this possibility didn't exist |
| 20:52.57 | Gnarfoz | but that's a limitation of the CA trust system |
| 20:53.07 | Gnarfoz | now why can't I loot my boom-box :\ |
| 20:53.34 | Jamash | the thing about what I suggested is that the proxy doesn't need to generate bogus certs for every site |
| 20:54.21 | Jamash | which is the part that offends my sensibilities |
| 20:54.22 | Gnarfoz | of course it would, unless you intend to make people visit "https://proxy.company.net/realwebsite.com" all day |
| 20:54.52 | Gnarfoz | or well, I guess you could use a "*" cert |
| 20:54.55 | Jamash | not any more than an existing proxy requires you to do that |
| 20:54.57 | Gnarfoz | (which no browser trusts) |
| 20:55.09 | Jamash | like I say it would require a new protocol or protocol extension |
| 20:55.23 | Jamash | I'm not talking about doing this over unmodified HTTP(S) |
| 20:55.28 | Gnarfoz | I'd certainly hope nobody would ever implement that, is all I can say to that |
| 20:56.29 | Jamash | You'd rather have the existing hacked-together methods that are by your own admission broken? |
| 20:57.19 | Gnarfoz | I said no such thing |
| 20:57.44 | Jamash | "our proxy ignored the hostname you actually requested and just made the fake cert with the CN the original cert had, regardless of any subjectAltNames" |
| 20:57.46 | End | I think the sort of people who work on the security standards aren't exactly keen to encourage mitm re-encryption |
| 20:58.12 | Gnarfoz | Jamash: that's just a particular product's idiocy, fixed in more recent firmware versions |
| 20:58.31 | Gnarfoz | I'd certainly rather have a secure protocol that relies on *another* system in which the trust problem is delegated to the user (as is the case with TLS + CAs) |
| 20:58.41 | Gnarfoz | than a protocol with built-in insecurity mode I can't even detect is being used |
| 20:59.12 | Jamash | okay, but my point is that regenerating fake certs is a complicated business which is likely to result in obscure and exploitable bugs |
| 21:00.10 | Gnarfoz | I can concede that, certainly |
| 21:00.23 | Gnarfoz | a website being the attacker? |
| 21:00.26 | Jamash | using the proxy as a front-end to the browser is basically plugging two standard pieces of software together |
| 21:00.58 | Jamash | ad-serving sites have been a frequent source of attacks on browsers, yes |
| 21:01.25 | Jamash | anyway now that I know what I didn't know before I'm content to let it drop |
| 21:04.16 | karl_w_w | jeez i cant get this to work |
| 21:05.20 | Jamash | if DANE goes through, those mitm proxies will have to start faking DNSSEC records as well |
| 21:05.59 | karl_w_w | all i want is a program, probably command line, to take a video stream from stdin and serve it on my lan |
| 21:06.35 | Jamash | karl_w_w: what have you tried? That's one of the explicit use cases for VLC as I understand it |
| 21:06.57 | karl_w_w | i havent found anything to try |
| 21:07.05 | karl_w_w | and i cant work out how to make vlc do it |
| 21:09.16 | Jamash | https://wiki.videolan.org/Documentation:Streaming_HowTo/Advanced_Streaming_Using_the_Command_Line/ |
| 21:13.19 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-174-63-97-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:13.20 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 21:14.43 | Jamash | karl_w_w: something like vlc - -sout "#standard{access=http,dst=address:port/path}" |
| 21:17.47 | Jamash | you can also set it up in the GUI and then grab the command line version https://wiki.videolan.org/Documentation:Streaming_HowTo_New/#Streaming_using_the_command_line_interface |
| 21:19.14 | TC-Work | You can also pay Jamash to do it for you. |
| 21:19.38 | Jamash | ugh, no thanks |
| 21:19.51 | Jamash | if I'm doing it for free I can just bail at any point |
| 21:20.02 | TC-Work | Well, you would for enough monies. |
| 21:20.03 | Jamash | if I'm getting paid there are obligations |
| 21:20.17 | Jamash | true |
| 21:20.36 | Jamash | I doubt karl_w_w has a budget for this project |
| 21:20.54 | TC-Work | Sure he does. Whatever he can find in his keyboard. |
| 21:21.10 | Jamash | the only reason I brought it up is I've done it before and it was a paiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin |
| 21:21.17 | karl_w_w | do you take payment in dust and the occasional crumb, Jamash? |
| 21:21.33 | TC-Work | 'occasional'? hah. |
| 21:21.36 | Jamash | so I wanted to share my meager knowledge on the subject to perhaps spare someone else the suffering |
| 21:22.14 | Jamash | pro tip vlc is a shitty livestreaming solution |
| 21:22.52 | Jamash | this was years ago before twitch and OBS and whatnot |
| 21:25.04 | karl_w_w | twitch being shitty is the reason im trying to do this |
| 21:27.23 | Shirik | what |
| 21:27.26 | Shirik | why is twitch being shitty |
| 21:27.37 | Shirik | I stream to twitch regularly without problem |
| 21:27.47 | karl_w_w | the android app is useless |
| 21:27.53 | Shirik | oh |
| 21:28.00 | Shirik | yeah because only the most popular streams are available |
| 21:28.01 | karl_w_w | it doesn't cache properly or something |
| 21:28.17 | karl_w_w | so it drops out |
| 21:28.20 | Shirik | o |
| 21:28.25 | karl_w_w | all the streams are available now |
| 21:28.28 | Shirik | wait what |
| 21:28.29 | Shirik | since when |
| 21:28.39 | karl_w_w | few months i think |
| 21:28.43 | TC-Work | Since you last looked. |
| 21:29.11 | karl_w_w | but its pretty pointless seeing as most streams you cant even watch on mobile quality |
| 21:29.39 | karl_w_w | and small streams are only available in source and chat only, i think |
| 21:31.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~Kalroth@5634e4bb.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 21:33.35 | karl_w_w | god damn |
| 21:34.03 | TC-Work | Yes my child? |
| 21:34.41 | karl_w_w | i nearly got there but livestreamer wont pass the curly brackets to vlc because it thinks it's a livestreamer variable so it tries to parse it |
| 21:35.30 | Shirik | oh wow |
| 21:35.36 | Shirik | when even the NRA tells you to put your guns away |
| 21:35.40 | Shirik | you know you have a problem http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/02/nra-slams-downright-scary-open-carry-texas-gun-lovers-they-crossed-the-line/ |
| 21:37.45 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 21:46.23 | Jamash | I'm frankly amazed that none of these open-carry wackos have been shot by other open-carry wackos |
| 21:48.07 | Unkle | I think open carry is fine, but there is a time and a place for carrying; and slinging an AR15 over your should while you shop at Target is probably getting carried away. |
| 21:48.09 | nevcairiel | I must not understand the american spirit, but i think its just batshit crazy to allow anyone at all to carry automatic assault rifles in public. protecting your home is fine and all, and even if we don't allow that here, go nuts in your home if you must, but on the streets.. |
| 21:50.48 | Semlar | i wonder if other countries actually think this is a common thing here |
| 21:51.07 | nevcairiel | from all i know about texas, it is =P |
| 21:51.10 | Shirik | ahaha |
| 21:51.15 | Shirik | Wildstar is offering free character transfers from my realm |
| 21:51.30 | Unkle | *shrug* The difference in the American attitude is that our founders all left countries (willingly or otherwise) where owning weapons and not being aristocracy was a crime. So the right to carry was enshrined. Some people fetishize. |
| 21:52.11 | Unkle | But honestly, a small fraction of people carry guns. |
| 21:53.41 | foxlit | A non-small fraction of people seem to be okay with people carrying guns, however. |
| 21:53.44 | nevcairiel | even seeing police wearing MP5's at airports or trainstations makes me kinda nervous around here :p |
| 21:53.57 | TC-Work | Unkle: Target I agree....but wal-mart, now that is a different story. |
| 21:54.31 | Unkle | TC-Work: Can't go thinning the gene pool just 'cause they shop at walmart now... |
| 21:54.42 | TC-Work | I can dream. |
| 21:55.04 | Mr_Rabies | automatic assault rifles require all kinds of insane permits and practically no one actually owns them other than collectors |
| 21:55.18 | nevcairiel | well semi-automatic is bad enough |
| 21:55.30 | Mr_Rabies | not really, it just sounds scary |
| 21:56.01 | nevcairiel | just need a fast finger |
| 21:56.12 | Unkle | nevcairiel: Countries where the police and the military are the same kind of freak me out. And places where the military does functions I think of as 'policing' creep me out. Like the at Paris de Gaul airport and the Milan airport where soldiers in full kit are on duty. |
| 21:56.36 | nevcairiel | well we don't have that here :p |
| 21:56.44 | Jamash | I think it should be legal for restaurant / store owners to shoot anyone who comes in carrying a gun, on the basis that they are clearly an armed robber. |
| 21:56.58 | Jamash | stand your ground amirite |
| 21:57.00 | Semlar | i can just imagine one of these people getting shot and it being completely justified |
| 21:57.19 | nevcairiel | and despite the public display of guns freaking me out a little, I was actually in the military and know how to handle a rifle |
| 21:57.21 | Unkle | Way to go Jamash. Get all reductio ad absurdam |
| 21:57.35 | Jamash | actually I think we should repeal the second amendment and ban gun ownership without a license, registration and proof of insurance |
| 21:57.56 | Semlar | guns make almost any situation worse |
| 21:58.00 | Jamash | ^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
| 21:58.22 | Unkle | Jamash: I disagree with you in principle. |
| 21:58.25 | Jamash | I love the "why don't we ban cars" analogy |
| 21:58.40 | Jamash | you mean cars that require the owner to have a license, registration and proof of insurance? |
| 21:59.04 | Jamash | Unkle: In principle or on principle? |
| 21:59.11 | Unkle | both. |
| 21:59.20 | Mr_Rabies | that'll definitely clear up gun crime |
| 21:59.36 | Mr_Rabies | ban em all, then criminals will happily hand in their illegal guns |
| 21:59.41 | Jamash | The Second Amendment has no legitimate function, nor has it ever had one. |
| 22:00.00 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: which is why full-auto weapons should be legal, amirite? |
| 22:00.03 | Unkle | Mr_Rabies: Not really. It'll just make more people into criminals. Like, all the people who already have guns. |
| 22:00.09 | Mr_Rabies | i think they should, Jamash |
| 22:00.17 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: You're clearly insane. |
| 22:00.35 | Mr_Rabies | they already are legal under certain provisions |
| 22:00.42 | Mr_Rabies | they're limited |
| 22:00.49 | Unkle | Jamash: I believe you're wrong. Had the colonists not had access to arms, we'd all be citizens of the British or French empires. |
| 22:00.51 | foxlit | Decriminalize everything, because criminals don’t obey laws. |
| 22:00.54 | TC-Work | Unkle: Well unlike here other militaries that do 'police' work have the proper training. |
| 22:01.04 | foxlit | Bonus: no more criminals! |
| 22:01.17 | Mr_Rabies | i'm glad that when they made murder illegal all the criminals stopped shooting people anyway |
| 22:01.20 | Jamash | Unkle: Are you aware that the Second Amendment was passed after the revolutionary war? |
| 22:01.25 | Mr_Rabies | that was nice of them |
| 22:01.52 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/17/opinion/australia-banned-assault-weapons-america-can-too.html now stfu |
| 22:01.55 | foxlit | Mr_Rabies: the conclusion to that line of reasoning isn’t to make murder legal. |
| 22:02.28 | Unkle | Jamash: Yes. Because the citizens of the new nation understood the ramifications of giving up the means by which their freedom was hard won. I'm not saying that there isn't a violence problem. I'm just saying that making gun owners into criminals is nutty. |
| 22:02.41 | Jamash | Unkle: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/17/opinion/australia-banned-assault-weapons-america-can-too.html now stfu |
| 22:03.00 | Jamash | Unkle: The Civil War disproved the Second Amendment. |
| 22:03.04 | Unkle | Jamash: I've read it. |
| 22:04.21 | Unkle | Jamash: No, the Civil War showed what happens when people are oppressed by other people past the point of tolerance. Every revolution comes out of a desire for change. Every one. |
| 22:04.50 | nevcairiel | Arguing that you need to keep your guns today to protect yourself from an invading empire is just silly. I realize you americans like your guns, but that argument makes no sense |
| 22:05.03 | Mr_Rabies | i don't really know how a war with generals, tactics, and everything really proved anything wrong about the second amendment |
| 22:05.13 | Unkle | It turns out that the Confederate States weren't going to be anyone modern's idea of a good idea. But They didn't disprove the need for protecting the rights of citizens to own weapons. |
| 22:05.36 | Mr_Rabies | it wasn't just a civilian uprising, they left the union and had a president and standing army |
| 22:06.11 | Unkle | The became another nation. Sort of the same way the US decided to become another nation. Imagine that. |
| 22:06.49 | Mr_Rabies | the reasons behind leaving were suspect, but i can't compare today's world with one where straight-up slavery is mostly considered normal, it's just too different from today's society |
| 22:06.59 | foxlit | Please estimate the probability of a revolution occuring in the US in the next 5/15/25/50/100 years. |
| 22:07.16 | Unkle | nevcairiel: Or the progress of weapons tech has made the idea of some guys with rifles throwing off the shackles of government that doesn't want to be overthrown a little silly - but it still is happening in the world right now. |
| 22:07.31 | Shirik | btw nevcairiel if it makes you feel any better |
| 22:07.34 | Shirik | I don't own a gun |
| 22:07.37 | Shirik | and I probably never will |
| 22:07.50 | Unkle | I own one. I don't carry it. |
| 22:07.56 | nevcairiel | quick, lets all invade Shirik |
| 22:08.02 | Shirik | I own something far more dangerous |
| 22:08.08 | nevcairiel | a crossbow? |
| 22:08.09 | Shirik | sekrets :D |
| 22:08.18 | Mr_Rabies | i own one and it's a semi-automatic, keep it at home unless i'm using it for target practice |
| 22:08.20 | Shirik | I actually do want to learn how to shoot a recurve bow |
| 22:08.29 | Shirik | and eventually a longbow but I'm nowhere near strong enough to do that right now |
| 22:08.45 | Unkle | I honestly think my computer and smartphone are FAR more dangerous to the state than my .44 magnum long barrel rigged for bench shooting. |
| 22:08.46 | TC-Work | I want a barrett but alas .50's are not allowed where I live. |
| 22:08.46 | nevcairiel | a crossbow is not really all that related to those |
| 22:08.51 | Shirik | I know, but it has the word bow |
| 22:08.55 | Shirik | so it reminded me |
| 22:09.01 | Mr_Rabies | .50's way too expensive anyway, TC-Work |
| 22:09.03 | zenzelezz | so does bowtie |
| 22:09.05 | Mr_Rabies | ain't worth it |
| 22:09.13 | TC-Work | Mr_Rabies: It is if that is what you want. |
| 22:09.29 | TC-Work | Do you know one with a better flight profile over 2 miles? |
| 22:09.31 | Unkle | TC-Work: Barret makes a hell of a rifle. |
| 22:09.44 | Mr_Rabies | i dont' even know how you get a safe backstop for .50BMG |
| 22:09.48 | TC-Work | Yes, yes it does. |
| 22:10.02 | TC-Work | Mr_Rabies: You get a mountain. |
| 22:10.47 | Jamash | The reason that the Civil War disproves the Second Amendment is that if the South had won, it would have proven that an armed citizenry are in fact a liability to "the security of a free State", and the fact that they lost disproves the theory that an armed citizenry can resist the power of the Federal Government. |
| 22:11.42 | Unkle | Jamash: fallacy. Correlation is not causation. The two factors are not related. |
| 22:11.45 | Jamash | The justification of the Second Amendment therefore being null and void, the right enumerated therein no longer exists. |
| 22:11.58 | Jamash | Unkle: How so? |
| 22:12.30 | Unkle | Because the fact that the populace had weapons is not the reason for the succession and the resulting war. |
| 22:12.43 | Jamash | Unkle: I never implied that it was |
| 22:13.24 | Mr_Rabies | what about the arab spring? |
| 22:13.44 | Jamash | Unkle: The only major uprising against the Federal Government has been in opposition to "the security of a free State". |
| 22:13.54 | Mr_Rabies | where an armed populace overthrew an oppressive government (maybe not to the greatest short term success at the moment, but still) |
| 22:14.14 | Mr_Rabies | does that not prove the second amendment, then? |
| 22:14.16 | Jamash | Thus disproving the assertion which the Second Amendment relies upon. |
| 22:14.25 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: The US is not Egypt. |
| 22:14.27 | Unkle | Those people chose to leave a nation they felt was inimical to their perceived way of life and rights. Rather than submit to a government that said "You can't do that" they seceded. THEN the two countries went to war. |
| 22:14.35 | Jamash | Unkle: You must be from the South |
| 22:14.40 | Mr_Rabies | lol |
| 22:15.15 | Mr_Rabies | it's true, though, the rich landowners in the south convinced the poor south that their way of life was at stake, and that's why they fought |
| 22:15.18 | Unkle | Wow. You really don't want to argue from reason, do you. |
| 22:15.32 | Jamash | Unkle: I'm willing to argue from reason as soon as you present any. |
| 22:15.47 | Mr_Rabies | it might not have been true, but life in the south did change heavily after the war |
| 22:15.58 | Unkle | The truth is, even if they hadn't had weapons as individuals, they STILL would have seceded. |
| 22:16.05 | Mr_Rabies | i'm glad it did, but it did change |
| 22:16.14 | Jamash | I've presented a case (guns are neither pro-freedom nor anti-tyranny) which you have not addressed. |
| 22:16.33 | Mr_Rabies | that's actually part of the problem in the civil war |
| 22:16.53 | Jamash | Unkle: An assertion which has no bearing on my argument. |
| 22:17.05 | Unkle | Guns are neither, it's a false premise. A machine, without intent and human action is itself neither pro nor con for anything. |
| 22:17.08 | Mr_Rabies | most of the weapon production was in the north, so their supply lines were mostly cut off unless a company was okay with risking being caught selling to both sides |
| 22:17.45 | Jamash | Unkle: Thus disproving the assertion of the Second Amendment, to wit: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." |
| 22:18.13 | Jamash | Unkle: Clearly, we agree. The Second Amendment contains a false assertion. |
| 22:18.29 | Mr_Rabies | but yeah, i don't get the reasoning that part of a country seceding and declaring itself sovereign, fighting for sovereign rights, and losing, is disproving the second amendment |
| 22:18.31 | Unkle | No, we don't, and it doesn't. |
| 22:18.47 | Jamash | You just said that. |
| 22:19.21 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: It proved that the militias are irrelevant in terms of national defense. |
| 22:19.29 | Mr_Rabies | those weren't militias |
| 22:19.32 | Jamash | Exactly |
| 22:19.40 | Jamash | The war was fought by armies, not militias. |
| 22:19.45 | foxlit | Jamash: “necessary” is not necessarily “sufficient.” |
| 22:19.54 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, i don't really get what you're saying |
| 22:19.56 | Jamash | foxlit: they're neither |
| 22:20.12 | Mr_Rabies | where do you think most of those armies were formed though |
| 22:20.24 | foxlit | the “south lost -> militia is ineffective” reasoning only addresses sufficient. |
| 22:20.28 | Mr_Rabies | militias, US army people leaving for the CSA, etc |
| 22:21.07 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, they lost, but it was a war, a battle, not at all what the second amendment is addressing |
| 22:21.30 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: It is the supposition of the Second Amendment that an armed citizenry is "necessary to the security of a free State". The Civil War proved that the Federal military can put down even an armed insurrection comprising a substantial fraction of the entire country. Therefore militias are neither necessary to defend the State nor sufficient to overthrow it. |
| 22:21.35 | Unkle | I can argue all day from reason and fact, but you're just making ad hominem and appeals to emotion. Play like an adult or don't play. You're obviously of the opinion that people owning weapons is "bad." I'm of the opinion that people owning weapons is "not bad." Don't make sweeping statements about history which a re clearly and provable false to make your case. |
| 22:21.39 | Mr_Rabies | i think you fail to realize how many people in the north also took up their own arms to defend their side of the battle |
| 22:22.27 | Unkle | Mr_Rabies: Or that we had to throw the British out a second time? |
| 22:23.03 | Unkle | As it is now, nothing I'm likely to own at home will stand up to a tank or a missile. |
| 22:23.17 | Mr_Rabies | i think you're believing in some false dichotomy that the south was all good ol' boys shootin' their pappy's ol' faithful from the war of 1812 and the north was some shining beacon of modernity with organized army veterans fighting every battle |
| 22:23.20 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: The North had sufficient industrial capability to manufacture 1.5 million long rifles by the end of the war. |
| 22:23.29 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: I am making no such assertion. |
| 22:24.06 | Jamash | Unkle: I'm making assertions, you're not addressing them, then you're complaining about me making arguments I'm not making. Is this how adults play? |
| 22:24.11 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, just because the united states can probably overthrow any armed uprising by non-military doesn't mean the whole second amendment is invalid |
| 22:24.15 | foxlit | meanwhile, “north won -> militias are unnecessary” only covers one set of circumstances; they might be necessary in others. |
| 22:24.19 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: Yes it does. |
| 22:24.36 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: Have you read it? |
| 22:24.52 | Mr_Rabies | the second amendment simply states that militias and private weapon ownership will not be made illegal |
| 22:25.00 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: No it doesn't. |
| 22:25.17 | Mr_Rabies | you can't disprove a fundamental right because of the events of a war |
| 22:25.22 | Mr_Rabies | it doesn't work that way |
| 22:26.16 | nevcairiel | i wonder how many law enforcement people hate their forefathers for making that right |
| 22:26.42 | Jamash | nevcairiel: a lot of them |
| 22:26.48 | Shirik | well to be fair, it was made for them to hate |
| 22:26.51 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: Have you read the full text of the Second Amendment? |
| 22:27.05 | Unkle | But in countries around the world, happening *right now* people are fighting against governments with small arms. Even in places where we don't like the people who are fighting (Syria, Ukraine/Crimea, many African continental regions). To say that those people shouldn't have the power to fight back is criminal in the extreme. The American Civil War is an easy example of the same thing. In any event, claiming that we should a |
| 22:27.13 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, jamash |
| 22:27.19 | Mr_Rabies | it's not very long |
| 22:27.32 | Shirik | unkle: cut off at "we should a" |
| 22:27.38 | Jamash | Unkle: I'm not talking about anywhere other than the United States of America, which is the only place the Second Amendment applies. |
| 22:27.56 | Unkle | "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Full text. |
| 22:28.16 | Mr_Rabies | nevcairiel: i wonder how many people love their forefathers because the law enforcement is ineffective at its job |
| 22:28.41 | Unkle | Shirik: "In any event, claiming that we should abolish the right as useless is wrong. " |
| 22:29.51 | nevcairiel | Mr_Rabies: somehow i dont think its meant for people to be vigilantes and go hunt down their robbers :p |
| 22:30.14 | Mr_Rabies | no, but it's meant to be available for self-defense |
| 22:30.45 | Unkle | nevcairiel: In the territories before they became states, that was often the only recourse. Mob justice is the worst. |
| 22:30.48 | Mr_Rabies | if all guns are illegal, then only those who don't mind owning illegal guns own guns, and an ineffective police force |
| 22:31.09 | foxlit | wait, why is the police force ineffective? |
| 22:31.10 | Jamash | Unkle: The Militia is not necessary to the security of a free State. Ergo, the remainder of the text is irrelevant. |
| 22:31.25 | Unkle | I watch a lot of biritsh crime dramas. I'm always shocked that some guy with a gun runs from guys without. |
| 22:31.32 | Mr_Rabies | because corruption, racism, all kinds of factors, foxlit |
| 22:31.35 | nevcairiel | Mr_Rabies: then by that logic, all countries where guns are illegal should have incredibly high crime rates |
| 22:31.41 | Jamash | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
| 22:31.49 | Unkle | Jamash: Then what do you call the National Guard if not a Militia? |
| 22:31.51 | Mr_Rabies | many do! |
| 22:31.57 | Jamash | Unkle: An army. |
| 22:32.26 | nevcairiel | Mr_Rabies: lets stick to similarly developed countries for comparisons :p |
| 22:32.27 | Unkle | Still, a militia. |
| 22:32.32 | Mr_Rabies | anyway Jamash, the supreme court has ruled on the second amendment and it applies to private ownership, not just organized militias |
| 22:32.52 | Mr_Rabies | because that's convenient to your argument? |
| 22:33.03 | Unkle | "A militia /mɨˈlɪʃə/[1] generally is an army or other fighting force that is composed of non-professional fighters; citizens of a nation or subjects of a state or government that can be called upon to enter a combat situation, as opposed to a professional force of regular, full-time military personnel, or historically, members of the fighting nobility class (e.g., knights or samurai)." |
| 22:33.14 | nevcairiel | arent the national guard people trained professionals |
| 22:33.17 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: They're wrong. |
| 22:33.21 | Mr_Rabies | ok |
| 22:33.22 | Jamash | Unkle: The National Guard Status Act, 1933 made the National Guard a component of the Army. |
| 22:33.42 | Unkle | nevcairiel: They're volunteers - not always professional soldiers. |
| 22:33.52 | Unkle | Jamash: I stand corrected. |
| 22:34.01 | Unkle | States also have militias. |
| 22:34.22 | Jamash | They're soldiering under government control and discipline for money. They are professional soldiers. |
| 22:34.27 | Mr_Rabies | i'm gonna go get some lunch since jamash clearly has no idea what he's talking about and we've run several people out of the channel |
| 22:34.31 | foxlit | Unkle: I watch a lot of biritsh crime dramas. I'm always shocked that some guy with a gun runs from guys without. << maybe that shouldn’t be too surprising. |
| 22:34.32 | Jamash | Unkle: Good luck finding them. |
| 22:34.33 | Mr_Rabies | i regret taking the bait |
| 22:34.42 | Unkle | California has one. They recruit in jr high schools. |
| 22:34.51 | foxlit | What is the guy with a gun usually being chased for? Probably not murder. |
| 22:35.11 | Unkle | foxlit: A salient point. Not a lot of us are stone killers. |
| 22:35.42 | Unkle | Jamash: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_defense_force |
| 22:35.44 | nevcairiel | http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311 clearly states that the national guard is considered a militia, i guess |
| 22:37.31 | Mr_Rabies | also, a militia need not be organized |
| 22:37.37 | Unkle | Anyway, this isn't the right channel for this. So, how about them API changes? |
| 22:37.45 | Jamash | Unkle: I hadn't known about that, thank you for the information. |
| 22:37.51 | Mr_Rabies | the local gun club is a militia when necessary |
| 22:39.22 | Mr_Rabies | anyway i should eat, later |
| 22:39.25 | Jamash | Unkle: wait, did you say that the Civil War was caused by federal government oppression? |
| 22:40.08 | Mr_Rabies | i think we ran off Cide, g0urra, Jelly and Ressy with that |
| 22:40.21 | Unkle | I did. Real or imagined, the Confederacy felt they were being oppressed by the US of A. |
| 22:40.38 | TC-Work | "<Unkle> Anyway, this isn't the right channel for this." hahahaha....aha....topics...*snort*, |
| 22:41.06 | Unkle | Yeah, TC-Work - I regret that I didn't say that much, much, much earlier. |
| 22:41.07 | Jamash | Unkle: There's a difference between "oppression" and "perceived oppression" |
| 22:41.20 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: correlation does not imply causation |
| 22:41.31 | Mr_Rabies | in reality the civil war was a combination of clashing ideals, the poor being convinced to fight for the rich's best interests, and fear of way of life changing |
| 22:41.52 | Unkle | Jamash: *sigh* not to the one who feels oppressed. But really, I'm happy to argue without outside the channel for any further argument. |
| 22:42.14 | Mr_Rabies | also i'd like to believe part of the reason the south lost is that eventually the morally just decision will win, even if it takes time |
| 22:42.47 | Mr_Rabies | eventually many of the poor realized they were being duped and stopped fighting or started fighting for the north, etc |
| 22:43.06 | Jamash | cf. West Virginia |
| 22:43.08 | Unkle | Mr_Rabies: Also, war is terrible and people wanted it over. |
| 22:43.40 | Mr_Rabies | it was a terrible scar on our past and using it as a way to try to disprove a fundamental right is kinda messed up :/ |
| 22:44.33 | Unkle | As much as I'm happy to be an American, I'm also clear that we've fucked up a lot along the way and we still have a long way to go to match our ideals. |
| 22:44.38 | Jamash | yeah it's impermissible to use any tragedy that involves guns to try to argue that gun ownership is not always a good thing |
| 22:44.44 | kd3 | Hoooooly crap. Just got out of Wildstar's first dungeon. That was a 2-hour wipefest. They weren't kidding about the CC/interrupts... |
| 22:44.59 | Shirik | kd3: which first dungeon |
| 22:45.06 | kd3 | stormtalon |
| 22:45.07 | Shirik | STL or Hycrest? |
| 22:45.10 | Shirik | yeah STL is awesome |
| 22:45.14 | TC-Work | I'm looking forward to standing in the fire. |
| 22:45.23 | Shirik | even the first boss |
| 22:45.26 | Shirik | is just epic |
| 22:45.42 | kd3 | hell, we were having issues with the trash before the boss |
| 22:45.44 | TC-Work | What level is it? |
| 22:45.47 | Shirik | I think their intent is to go "we aren't kidding, you REALLY have to move around in this game" |
| 22:45.49 | Shirik | 20 |
| 22:45.58 | Shirik | did you get to the boss? |
| 22:46.00 | TC-Work | Well I have a few levels to go |
| 22:46.07 | kd3 | yah, we cleared the instance |
| 22:46.10 | Shirik | sweet |
| 22:46.11 | Mr_Rabies | i still want an MMO that uses the Souls games' fight mechanics :( |
| 22:46.13 | Unkle | I did Hycrest in beta - I foolishly tried soloing as an Esper (no one was around who wanted to do it) and then I did it with a group. I was pretty confused both times. |
| 22:46.23 | Jamash | kd3: sounds like Burning Crusade heroics |
| 22:46.24 | Mr_Rabies | and maybe even part of their multiplayer mechanics |
| 22:46.45 | kd3 | SH heroic pre-nerf was close |
| 22:46.51 | Shirik | Esper healing is fun |
| 22:46.57 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: I dunno how well that would work in a high-latency mmo environment |
| 22:46.58 | Shirik | Esper healing in STL is epic |
| 22:47.04 | Unkle | Trying out a Medic/Soldier combo right now. And oh man... things are so different when there are people to group with. |
| 22:47.15 | kd3 | I had to offheal the last boss because our medic ran the wrong way in one of the eye of the hurricane moves |
| 22:47.20 | Shirik | lol |
| 22:47.22 | Jamash | kd3: You just convinced me to never play Wildstar |
| 22:47.23 | Mr_Rabies | about as well as it works in dark souls, Jamash |
| 22:47.29 | Mr_Rabies | because that too is high-latency :p |
| 22:47.35 | Mr_Rabies | at least as it stands |
| 22:47.44 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: ...singleplayer is high-latency? |
| 22:47.57 | Mr_Rabies | it's got a ton of multiplayer mechanics too |
| 22:48.08 | Mr_Rabies | how the multiplayer matchmaking works in DSII right now is |
| 22:48.19 | Mr_Rabies | [Japan] [The Entire Rest of the World] |
| 22:48.30 | Unkle | Shirik: My esper got to 22 and apparently didn't get wiped at the end of beta, but Stormtalon server is always full with a 3 hour wait. |
| 22:48.30 | Jamash | I haven't paid the xbox network tax so I've never seen the multiplayer |
| 22:48.39 | Shirik | oh yeah mine didn't get wiped either |
| 22:48.42 | Mr_Rabies | it's just not the same game without the online mechanics |
| 22:48.43 | Shirik | but I'm not playing on Stormtalon |
| 22:48.51 | Mr_Rabies | get it for pc, yo |
| 22:48.55 | Jamash | Mr_Rabies: I don't like ganking anyway so I'm probably better off |
| 22:49.01 | Mr_Rabies | it's not just ganking though |
| 22:49.05 | Jamash | isn't it though |
| 22:49.06 | Unkle | I'm playing on the "RP" server. |
| 22:49.09 | Mr_Rabies | messages on the ground, holly co-operation |
| 22:49.12 | Mr_Rabies | er jolly |
| 22:49.20 | Mr_Rabies | i've been invaded by a dark spirit like...twice? |
| 22:49.24 | Mr_Rabies | and i'm like 60 hours in? |
| 22:49.29 | Jamash | well, that's not so bad |
| 22:49.31 | Unkle | It was the only one that wasn't "FULL" with a queue when the headstart fired up. |
| 22:49.35 | Jamash | I don't have DS2 yet sadly |
| 22:49.36 | Mr_Rabies | but i've done probably 100+ co-op sessions |
| 22:49.40 | Jamash | I'll get it on PC when I do |
| 22:49.47 | Mr_Rabies | i'd recommend it heavily, it runs so much better than DS1 |
| 22:49.49 | Jamash | I'm borrowing a friend's DS1 for 360 |
| 22:50.03 | Mr_Rabies | the only problem is that it's gonna be hard to return to DS1 because DS2 is so much smoother |
| 22:50.18 | Mr_Rabies | the messages are super neat |
| 22:50.38 | Shirik | wtf fedex |
| 22:50.42 | Jamash | I went hard endurance with spear and shield for my build |
| 22:50.46 | Shirik | fedex is shipping my package as if it was a overnight package |
| 22:50.49 | Shirik | for 2-day package |
| 22:50.50 | Unkle | Do friends lists in Wildstar work cross-server? |
| 22:50.58 | Shirik | yes |
| 22:51.02 | Mr_Rabies | i like light armor dodge builds myself |
| 22:51.06 | Jamash | I think the only times Iron Golem ever killed me was when it knocked me off the tower :[ |
| 22:51.13 | Unkle | Shirik: Then add me as Unkle. |
| 22:51.17 | Shirik | what server |
| 22:51.25 | Jamash | *were |
| 22:51.27 | Mr_Rabies | i wear leather-type armor and use curved swords/katanas and dodge around instead of tanking |
| 22:51.37 | Mr_Rabies | don't even use a shield 90% of the time in dark souls 2 |
| 22:51.39 | Unkle | The RP one. Starts with a "E" - but the name escapes me. |
| 22:51.45 | Jamash | I was going to try that but I ended up shield tanking mostly |
| 22:51.54 | Mr_Rabies | dual wield swords since dual wielding is so much nicer in DS2 |
| 22:51.56 | Jamash | dodging is really stressful |
| 22:52.07 | Mr_Rabies | in DS1 dual wield is useless |
| 22:52.23 | Jamash | yeah I switch between spear+shield and 2h spear |
| 22:52.25 | Mr_Rabies | sword/spear and board is the way to go in DS1 |
| 22:52.32 | kd3 | I'm Kaydeethree@Thunderfoot |
| 22:52.36 | Mr_Rabies | with magic as needed |
| 22:52.40 | Jamash | yup |
| 22:52.51 | Jamash | I need to get the lordvessel |
| 22:52.56 | Mr_Rabies | Thunderfoot sounds so much like a Warcraft thing that i'm surprised it's not, kd3 |
| 22:53.35 | Shirik | Unkle: that didn't work; PM me your account email address instead |
| 22:53.36 | Jamash | I got sidetracked poking around in the lava area |
| 22:53.45 | Shirik | kd3 you too |
| 22:53.53 | Mr_Rabies | i went there like way, way after the lordvessel |
| 22:53.59 | Jamash | I'm easily distracted |
| 22:54.02 | Mr_Rabies | oh, you mean at the bottom of the grave of the giants or whatever |
| 22:54.08 | Jamash | probably |
| 22:54.09 | Mr_Rabies | tomb? |
| 22:54.15 | Jamash | Near the sick spider lady |
| 22:54.24 | Jamash | "Ceaseless Discharge" and all |
| 22:54.26 | Mr_Rabies | the next lava section with the dinosaur butts is a nightmare |
| 22:54.34 | Jamash | ...dinosaur butts? |
| 22:55.16 | Mr_Rabies | http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UMOIqI8Tuww/UiC3hAuCkBI/AAAAAAAABII/WX3n3ZW8e-0/s1600/chaos.jpg |
| 22:55.18 | Mr_Rabies | dinosaur butts |
| 22:55.33 | Mr_Rabies | (actually dragon butts i guess) |
| 22:55.45 | Arrowmaster | Jamash: did you get your ass kicked by ceaseless discharge? |
| 22:56.06 | Mr_Rabies | i died once to him, i wish i knew how to cheese it in my first playthrough |
| 22:56.13 | Arrowmaster | same |
| 22:56.30 | Arrowmaster | i grabbed the good armor and died, now when i zone in he attacks right away |
| 22:56.32 | Mr_Rabies | now everytime i go back i either beat his butt or make him fall in the lava |
| 22:56.50 | Jamash | Arrowmaster: yeah a bunch of times |
| 22:56.58 | Jamash | but I finally killed him |
| 22:57.06 | Mr_Rabies | you can make him fall off of the pit thing |
| 22:57.20 | Mr_Rabies | if you drag him over to it, he'll eventually slip and fall, and grab on |
| 22:57.22 | Arrowmaster | but only the first time you zone in each playthrough |
| 22:57.29 | Mr_Rabies | if you attack his hand he's holding onto, he'll fall |
| 22:57.38 | Mr_Rabies | on with* |
| 22:57.46 | Jamash | I didn't manage to make that work, I ran around the L-shaped passage and stabbed him with a spear each time he flailed at me |
| 22:57.55 | Mr_Rabies | also that is the grossest name for a boss ever |
| 22:58.00 | Jamash | I think that's intentional |
| 22:58.04 | Mr_Rabies | i dont even know what they were thinking |
| 22:58.13 | Jamash | I think they were thinking "how can we gross everyone out" |
| 22:58.53 | Jamash | "Gaping Dragon", "Ceaseless Discharge", "The Bed of Chaos" |
| 22:59.27 | Arrowmaster | countless fucked up shit with tits |
| 22:59.28 | Mr_Rabies | ceaseless discharge's name is 爛れ続けるもの in japanese |
| 22:59.30 | Mr_Rabies | which means like |
| 22:59.41 | Mr_Rabies | "thing that's constantly inflamed/on fire/burning" |
| 22:59.44 | Mr_Rabies | so i guess possibly? |
| 23:00.25 | Jamash | Boss: It Burns When I Pee |
| 23:00.45 | Mr_Rabies | and bed of chaos is like |
| 23:00.50 | Mr_Rabies | that's where chaos lies |
| 23:01.13 | Unkle | Later. |
| 23:01.14 | Mr_Rabies | the witch of izalith tried to embrace chaos and now she must lie in the "bed" she made |
| 23:04.18 | Jamash | demon's souls had a boss named "Penetrator" |
| 23:04.56 | Jamash | I'm pretty sure you don't give bosses names like those by accident |
| 23:20.26 | *** join/#wowuidev nebula169_ (~nebula169@unaffiliated/nebula169) |
| 23:20.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ghost (quassel@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 23:20.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik|Ghost] by ChanServ |
| 23:20.26 | Shirik|Ghost | quassel I will destroy you |
| 23:20.26 | TC-Work | I doubt it |
| 23:20.26 | Stanzilla | back to mirc? |
| 23:20.26 | *** join/#wowuidev mikma__ (mikma@reaktio.net) |
| 23:20.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Grum_ (~grum@irc.grum.nl) |
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| 23:22.43 | Mr_Rabies | i use mirc :] |
| 23:22.45 | Mr_Rabies | i paid for it, too |
| 23:23.00 | Mr_Rabies | it went on sale for like a weekend for like $10 so i bought it |
| 23:25.21 | stuf_ | now khaled mardam-bey can eat for another week |
| 23:28.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Kesava (Kesava@gateway/shell/trekweb.org/x-lkoukndrfxkritnd) |
| 23:29.02 | *** join/#wowuidev MiRai (~MiRai@unaffiliated/mirai) |
| 23:29.08 | Mr_Rabies | if he eats for $10 a week in finland or wherever he is he's a wizard |
| 23:29.34 | Mr_Rabies | oh, england |
| 23:29.42 | Mr_Rabies | i was thinking he was scandinavian for some reason |
| 23:29.53 | kd3 | I uh... http://i.imgur.com/HJ7edZx.jpg |
| 23:29.56 | Stanzilla | $10 is like, a cup of coffee in england |
| 23:31.20 | Mr_Rabies | omg |
| 23:31.32 | Mr_Rabies | mirc is apparently used for remote controlling military drones nowadays |
| 23:31.34 | Mr_Rabies | that's insane |
| 23:31.36 | Mr_Rabies | why on earth |
| 23:31.58 | Stanzilla | wtf |
| 23:32.30 | Stanzilla | imagine them writing directions into an irc chan to control them :D |
| 23:32.31 | Stanzilla | left |
| 23:32.34 | Stanzilla | down |
| 23:32.49 | Semlar | twitch plays military drones! |
| 23:32.56 | Stanzilla | ! |
| 23:33.15 | Mr_Rabies | maybe twitch plays pokemon was a test for future drone controls |
| 23:33.25 | Mr_Rabies | let the people choose who they dronestrike |
| 23:33.27 | Stanzilla | fucking NSA everywhere |
| 23:33.27 | Semlar | maybe it was drone controls |
| 23:33.39 | Mr_Rabies | and then accidentally hit their neighbor when 4chan intervenes |
| 23:33.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~Caleb|@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/EnsidiaFails/Caleb) |
| 23:33.48 | Semlar | RIOT |
| 23:47.41 | *** join/#wowuidev demi` (~tensai@191.176.72.211) |
| 23:48.02 | *** part/#wowuidev demi` (~tensai@191.176.72.211) |
