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| 00:21.54 | jleclanche | squee, qt5 quassel |
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| 00:31.23 | jleclanche | ~hi |
| 00:31.23 | purl | hello, jleclanche |
| 00:33.54 | Stanzilla | jleclanche: where? |
| 00:34.09 | jleclanche | Stanzilla: git :) |
| 00:34.18 | Stanzilla | ah |
| 00:34.37 | jleclanche | Running it right now. very nice stuff. |
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| 00:37.06 | Stanzilla | jleclanche: do they have nightly windows builds? I don't remember |
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| 00:46.06 | jleclanche | nevcairiel: hello from quassel's commit log |
| 00:46.22 | jleclanche | (wtf are you doing with msvc!) |
| 00:46.52 | jleclanche | As a sidenote, I am very impressed with Snore: https://github.com/TheOneRing/Snorenotify |
| 00:47.01 | jleclanche | this is the library that needed to exist a couple of years ago |
| 00:49.49 | Shirik | jleclanche: you work on quassel? |
| 00:50.11 | jleclanche | I love quassel, I do things to it at night and I sometimes even .. uh, no, I dont work on quassel |
| 00:50.18 | jleclanche | I probably have a few commits in it though |
| 00:50.37 | Shirik | the client is a POS |
| 00:50.40 | Shirik | the server is amazing |
| 00:50.43 | jleclanche | you're a point of sale |
| 00:50.45 | Shirik | I wish there was an alternate |
| 00:50.47 | jleclanche | whats wrong with the client? |
| 00:51.19 | Stanzilla | I agree with Shirik though |
| 00:51.27 | Stanzilla | looks like a piece of shit and lacks options to fix that |
| 00:51.29 | kd3 | wru dcc support? |
| 00:51.40 | Shirik | even the most basic of features aren't supported |
| 00:51.47 | Shirik | not to mention it crashes so often |
| 00:51.48 | jleclanche | dcc support is a server thing, so cant be what Shirik is complaining about |
| 00:51.58 | jleclanche | what? ive never had quassel crash in 3 years |
| 00:52.06 | Shirik | do you leave it running? |
| 00:52.06 | jleclanche | what is actually *wrong* with it? |
| 00:52.09 | jleclanche | yes |
| 00:52.14 | Shirik | dunno what to tell you tehn |
| 00:52.21 | Shirik | I could send you my 500 crash dumps as evidence if you want |
| 00:52.29 | jleclanche | um, please do, with symbols too |
| 00:52.48 | jleclanche | i dont care much about evidence but if theres a bug it could be good to idk fix it |
| 00:52.56 | Shirik | most of the links take 2-3 clicks before they actually open in my browser |
| 00:53.06 | jleclanche | platform? |
| 00:53.16 | Shirik | the little pop-up window when you hover over a link not only takes forever, but also doesn't go away after you leave the link |
| 00:53.19 | Shirik | both Windows and OSX |
| 00:53.25 | Shirik | though I think the crashing is onlyo n OSX |
| 00:53.41 | jleclanche | the pop-up window can be disabled (and you should disable it, hell i disable it at compile time) |
| 00:53.52 | Shirik | that's what you call dead code then |
| 00:54.17 | jleclanche | theres a difference between "mild annoyances" and "POS" |
| 00:54.21 | jleclanche | you're not selling me on this |
| 00:54.41 | Shirik | even banning someone is a chore |
| 00:54.53 | jleclanche | that I agree with |
| 00:55.12 | Shirik | it's not that any one thing is a big deal |
| 00:55.22 | Shirik | it's that there are so many little deals that it's painful |
| 00:56.01 | jleclanche | hmm |
| 00:56.07 | jleclanche | can you pop in #addybot for a sec? |
| 00:59.11 | Thunder_Child | That sounds so very wrong. |
| 01:00.25 | Shirik | oh but my favorite of all |
| 01:00.34 | Shirik | is that /whois doesn't work |
| 01:00.48 | Shirik | run /whois Thunder_Child --> [18:10:02] * No nickname given |
| 01:01.23 | kd3 | works here |
| 01:01.38 | kd3 | 21:01:14 * [Whois] Thunder_Child is Thunder_Child!~Thunder_C@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC (Thunder_Child) |
| 01:02.07 | Shirik | are you actually running Quassel? |
| 01:02.09 | jleclanche | yeah works here too |
| 01:02.12 | kd3 | yup |
| 01:02.17 | Shirik | what's up with that theme? |
| 01:02.29 | kd3 | I'm using the dark theme |
| 01:02.48 | Thunder_Child | Most people seem to be running Quassel lately. |
| 01:02.59 | jleclanche | because its the only sane irc stack |
| 01:03.11 | Thunder_Child | Whih is kinda sad. |
| 01:03.18 | Thunder_Child | which* |
| 01:03.21 | jleclanche | also Shirik fwiw there is an irssi quassel client |
| 01:03.28 | kd3 | http://quassel-irc.org/node/104 (download link below the pic) |
| 01:04.03 | Thunder_Child | Thats mostly how mine looks....but not as eye rapey. |
| 01:04.40 | Thunder_Child | That and you are in way too many channels. |
| 01:04.51 | kd3 | that's not my ss |
| 01:05.18 | jleclanche | also Shirik Im still waiting for the crash dumps |
| 01:05.34 | Shirik | I have no idea where OSX puts them |
| 01:06.18 | jleclanche | I have an idea where you can put them |
| 01:07.08 | Shirik | :( they are turned off by defautl |
| 01:07.13 | Shirik | I will turn it on |
| 01:07.18 | Shirik | I'm sure I'll get one before tonight |
| 01:07.38 | jleclanche | it wont be much use if you dont have debug symbols |
| 01:09.33 | Shirik | uh |
| 01:09.44 | Shirik | you should always be able to apply symbols afterwards |
| 01:10.08 | Shirik | I guess they don't release the symbols along with the standard binary |
| 01:10.10 | jleclanche | I wont, you will :p |
| 01:10.10 | Shirik | that's probably a mistake |
| 01:10.17 | Shirik | no |
| 01:10.27 | Shirik | when you build an application and release it, you should save away the symbols |
| 01:10.42 | Shirik | that way when someone comes back at you with a crash report, you can apply the symbols to the crash report and get information out of it |
| 01:11.51 | jleclanche | http://bugs.quassel-irc.org/issues/1182 |
| 01:11.53 | jleclanche | this might be it |
| 01:12.28 | jleclanche | can you try toggle fullscreen mode several times very fast? |
| 01:14.24 | Shirik | lmao |
| 01:14.25 | airtonix | Shirik: i leave my quassel client running for days on end. |
| 01:14.29 | airtonix | no crash |
| 01:14.30 | Shirik | I didn't even know there was a fullscreen mode |
| 01:14.32 | Shirik | and btw |
| 01:14.33 | airtonix | also learn to QSS |
| 01:14.38 | Shirik | it is totally broken in osx |
| 01:14.44 | Shirik | like fullscreen mode just sends it off the desktop |
| 01:14.44 | airtonix | osx is broken |
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| 01:14.51 | airtonix | so no surprise there |
| 01:19.07 | airtonix | jleclanche: snore have a gnome-shell backend? |
| 01:19.15 | jleclanche | uh? |
| 01:19.24 | jleclanche | gnome-shell probably uses freedesktop notifications |
| 01:19.44 | jleclanche | this is an area where linux really got its act together; everyone uses the same protocol from the get go |
| 01:29.45 | Neffi | Don't let the Gnome guys know everyone else uses it. They might ditch it for their own protocol |
| 01:41.26 | Simca_ | if I wanted to do something wacky, say like... make a GameTooltip with aspects of a Button |
| 01:41.46 | Simca_ | then that can be done with inherited virtual frames, right? |
| 01:42.11 | foxlit | only if you invert the positron flow of the quantum discombodulator. |
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| 01:49.00 | Neffi | Simca_: GameTooltip is special (see its API). So you'd inherit from that. Then just apply some button common to properties: mouse enabled, onclick/onmouse scripts, register for click, etc |
| 01:50.39 | Simca_ | yeah but what I mean Neffi is - is it possible to use that technique to have a resulting object with special API functions from both its inherited virtual frame and from itself? |
| 01:51.55 | Simca_ | would the resulting frame have GetButtonState -and- SetHyperlink, for example |
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| 01:53.21 | Neffi | No |
| 01:53.49 | Neffi | But some API like GetButtonState could be reimplemented with your own logic, whilst others like SetHyperlink cannot (not trivially) |
| 01:54.03 | Neffi | So you would inherit from the object that has the desired builtin capabilities, and do the rest on your own |
| 01:54.24 | airtonix | i'll invert your positron |
| 01:54.51 | Neffi | Specifically SetHyperlink has no real alternative at all, so the only alternative is to have a behind-the-scenes frame that you make the real :SetHyperlink call on, then scrape the data off that and insert it onto your virtual frame |
| 01:55.14 | Neffi | Which is a pita. You're better off basing your template on what would be hardest to reimplement |
| 01:55.45 | Neffi | Alternately, you can have multiple frames cleverly positioned and layered to the parent, and some glue code on the parent to make the callouts to the relevant children |
| 01:55.52 | Simca_ | yeah, but when both objects i'm trying to combine together have a desired function that is extremely difficult to reimplement, kind of screwed i think |
| 01:56.00 | foxlit | airtonix: you may begin. |
| 01:56.11 | Neffi | Use multiple frames |
| 01:56.28 | Simca_ | Specifically: Was trying to combine CinematicModel's SetSpellVisualKit and DressUpModel's TryOn |
| 01:56.45 | Neffi | A button the same size and position as a gametooltip should suffice. The gametooltip won't accept mouse clicks if you dont want it to, but the button will, so you get the appearance of the tooltip with the click functionality of the button |
| 01:57.21 | Neffi | I'm not sure. See if there's a model type that has the common properties of each. Otherwise, you might not be able to |
| 01:57.31 | foxlit | see, the correct response to that confusion of words was to ask “what do you actually want to do?” |
| 01:57.59 | Simca_ | nah I was more interested in the theory than this specific case example |
| 01:58.12 | Simca_ | it's a problem i've run into more than once for various things |
| 01:59.08 | foxlit | (as opposed to suggesting construction of a frankenstenian rube goldberg contraption.) |
| 02:00.37 | Neffi | The way he asked made it seem like he was interested more in if it could be achieved, than if it's the right approach |
| 02:01.09 | Simca_ | yeah, there was a case where I -had- to do it in the past but there was only a special function from one of the two objects (GameTooltip) |
| 02:01.33 | Simca_ | had to combine a LayeredRegion and a GameTooltip to get a GameTooltip with the appearance of a BattlePetTooltip (which isn't a tooltip at all because of some really bad Blizzard decision) |
| 02:02.40 | kd3 | is wildstar's abysmal performance because I'm running it in wine or is it just bad for everyone? |
| 02:03.22 | Simca_ | probably a little of both; i've heard some not-so-great performance stories on the forums from Windows users but it didn't sound "abysmal" |
| 02:03.54 | foxlit | meanwhile, the correct theoretical question is “Can I inherit from multiple widget types?” and the answer is probably “All inherited templates must be of a supertype of the inheriting widget.” |
| 02:04.40 | foxlit | mixing LayeredRegion and GameTooltip sounds pretty ridiculous, since the former is essentially a Texture/FontString, while the latter is a frame. Can’t meaningfully be both at the same time. |
| 02:04.42 | Iriel | kd3: On native windows earlier betas certainly were not abysmal. Haven’t tried this one. |
| 02:05.16 | Simca_ | foxlit: hence why the battlepettooltip implementation should make any person cringe |
| 02:05.36 | airtonix | lol this guy in hannibal, drinking peoples tears |
| 02:05.42 | airtonix | what a guy |
| 02:05.47 | Simca_ | it's a bunch of random textstrings and textures on a non-clickable layeredregion |
| 02:05.49 | foxlit | why? It should be some frame with some textures and some font strings. Isn’t it? |
| 02:06.28 | Simca_ | they could have much more elegantly achieved the same result by adding a function to GameTooltip, but for some reason they didn't |
| 02:07.37 | foxlit | BattlePetTooltipTemplate is a Frame, which makes the whole construction pretty sane to me. |
| 02:09.42 | Simca_ | the big problem is altering it. if you try to change parts of the tooltip, you will step all over every other addon doing the same thing because it doesn't have any of the contingencies from GameTooltip to avoid that type of stuff (like :AddLine) |
| 02:10.56 | foxlit | Basically, using a separate template allows them full control of the layout. Shoehorning it into GameTooltip would’ve been messy. |
| 02:13.08 | Simca_ | hindsight is 20/20 but it would have been significantly less messy to reset colors and backgrounds for gametooltip on hide or a function change than to have multiple addons fighting to understand and impose on its contents |
| 02:14.54 | foxlit | [I’m actually thinking of the battle pet ability tooltips; but nevermind, the same thing applies here.] |
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| 02:18.13 | foxlit | I don’t think FrameXML cares too much about what multiple addons have to do to play nicely with each other. Personally, my solution is not to have multiple battle pet addons. |
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| 02:18.31 | airtonix | Simca_: hindsight is what people poor planning call it. |
| 02:18.56 | airtonix | "Loll wooops! I guess 400c is not good for sausages!" |
| 02:19.06 | airtonix | "ok captain hindsight!" |
| 02:22.36 | Simca_ | and my solution was to make a gametooltip anchored just underneath the battlepettooltip for my addon to display its info where it hopefully won't be impeded |
| 02:23.09 | Simca_ | and it worked out mostly ok |
| 02:23.11 | foxlit | How very cooperative of you :) |
| 02:24.24 | foxlit | (although, that does leave you hoping that nobody else will anchor anything to the bottom of the battlepettooltip :) ) |
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| 02:34.04 | kd3 | it's a wine thing to be sure |
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| 03:11.09 | Neffi | https://i.imgur.com/0tz6L9K.jpg |
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| 07:23.27 | Fisker | hey jleclanche |
| 07:25.45 | jleclanche | Fisker: sup |
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| 07:34.36 | Simca_ | foxlit: as an example of the chaos it causes, this guy's addon is conflicting with mine and more popular, and i've narrowed down the problem to his code - he's trying to hook SetText in BattlePetTooltip and it's causing C Overloads all over the place |
| 07:36.27 | Neffi | Report the problem to him |
| 07:36.30 | Simca_ | http://i.imgur.com/H1Tw3T8.png |
| 07:40.02 | mikma | oh that's just bad :D |
| 07:44.05 | Mr_Rabies | man i love dark souls II so much |
| 07:44.13 | Mr_Rabies | http://i.4cdn.org/v/1400365069755.webm |
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| 09:49.53 | Shirik | I desparately need a new mattress :( |
| 09:49.58 | Shirik | but I'm too lazy to go out and shop for one |
| 09:50.03 | Shirik | this is a serious dillemma |
| 09:50.13 | nevcairiel | order one online |
| 09:52.03 | Fisker | That's a bad idea |
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| 09:52.27 | Fisker | some mattresses are seriously shitty |
| 09:52.39 | Fisker | especially the entry ones |
| 09:57.45 | nebula169 | most mattresses are overpriced and shitty |
| 10:00.09 | Fisker | Yeah |
| 10:00.34 | Fisker | But a pretty good way to guarantee it is buying one online |
| 10:00.34 | Fisker | :P |
| 10:00.45 | Fisker | Unless you know beforehand what mattress is good of course |
| 10:32.08 | zenzelezz | http://it.slashdot.org/story/14/05/17/051214/emory-university-sccm-server-accidentally-reformats-all-computers-campus-wide - half of all comments are naturally "it reinstalled windows so it didnt take out the malware lulz!!1" |
| 10:42.55 | Mr_Rabies | slashdot still exists and has the same jokes as ever i see |
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| 11:56.42 | jleclanche | ~ping |
| 11:56.42 | purl | ~pong |
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| 12:34.18 | Fisker | ~ping |
| 12:34.18 | purl | ~pong |
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| 15:00.43 | jleclanche | Youtube has officially switched to the html5 player on chrome |
| 15:00.47 | jleclanche | I think I'll remove flash |
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| 15:18.06 | karl_w_w | need flash for twitch! :P |
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| 15:41.20 | nevcairiel | chrome comes with its own flash, can you even remove that :p |
| 15:55.18 | Fisker | You can disable it nevcairiel |
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| 16:03.38 | zenzelezz | man... I can never decide if I prefer "key=value" or "key = value" in SQL |
| 16:03.52 | nevcairiel | use key= value |
| 16:04.01 | nevcairiel | worst of both worlds right there |
| 16:04.04 | zenzelezz | hehe |
| 16:10.51 | jleclanche | karl_w_w: I have a script for twitch |
| 16:10.54 | jleclanche | I watch it on my video player |
| 16:11.13 | zenzelezz | VLC or something else? |
| 16:11.16 | jleclanche | mpv |
| 16:11.20 | jleclanche | you want it? |
| 16:11.25 | zenzelezz | yeah |
| 16:12.05 | jleclanche | https://gist.github.com/jleclanche/f79a0cb59ea835b9a790 |
| 16:12.13 | jleclanche | requires livestreamer |
| 16:12.25 | jleclanche | I do twitch trumpsc for example |
| 16:12.38 | jleclanche | or twitch --check to check if any of my favourites are online |
| 16:15.10 | zenzelezz | jleclanche: that's really all it takes? Cool :) Thanks |
| 16:15.20 | jleclanche | zenzelezz: "livestreamer" is the app that takes care of it |
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| 17:07.00 | karl_w_w | Fisker, are you looking for a dota 2 fantasy league? |
| 17:07.38 | Fisker | no |
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| 18:26.04 | Hitch | Does an addon need to be written in XML or can you go 100% lua? |
| 18:26.15 | Maldivia | you can go 100% lua |
| 18:26.27 | Maldivia | (and a .toc file) |
| 18:28.10 | Hitch | I've been working on some simple stuff but want to take it to the next level and do something visual instead of printing out to the chat. I've looke at Wowwiki but cant seem to find a tutorial for addons that use 100% lua and wowprogramming is only a reference |
| 18:28.18 | Hitch | Dont know where to look now. |
| 18:28.28 | Maldivia | CreateFrame is a good start |
| 18:28.54 | Maldivia | http://wowpedia.org/API_CreateFrame |
| 18:29.25 | Hitch | Thanks, Is wowpedia superior to wowwiki or should I use both? |
| 18:31.43 | Maldivia | wowpedia is a fork of wowwiki from around mid-2010, because wikia (where wowwiki is hosted) got a bit greedy with their terms |
| 18:31.55 | Maldivia | most of the active admins from wowwiki moved to wowpedia |
| 18:33.30 | Hitch | ok |
| 18:43.05 | Hitch | Whats the path to the solid texture? |
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| 19:16.31 | mikma | tharper: welcome to sauna! http://mikma.reaktio.net/saunakaiuttimet/20140518_003.jpg (that's speaker 1 of 2 ;) |
| 19:16.44 | tharper | nice! |
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| 19:22.41 | Semlar | Hitch: interface/buttons/white8x8 |
| 19:22.56 | Hitch | Thanks |
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| 19:57.47 | Tek0 | hey all.. returning player, was wondering if anyone had tips on knowing what addons to get so my UI doesnt look so shit |
| 19:57.53 | Tek0 | I dont even know where to start |
| 19:58.15 | Semlar | elvui? |
| 19:58.44 | Tek0 | hm what does that do? |
| 19:58.53 | Tek0 | ui package? |
| 19:59.02 | g0urra | yes |
| 19:59.03 | Gnarfoz | the question is: what do you even want? |
| 19:59.33 | Semlar | the only thing i ever see in post-your-ui threads is elvui so i think it probably appeals to a wide audience |
| 19:59.49 | Tek0 | cool looks really good ill give it a try |
| 19:59.56 | Tek0 | exactly what I needed: Gnarfoz |
| 19:59.56 | g0urra | it's because most people are too lazy to customize their own UI from scratch |
| 20:00.04 | Semlar | >_> |
| 20:00.24 | Tek0 | im not, Iv just been gone for so long I dont know how to do it properly |
| 20:00.47 | Gnarfoz | well, if it suits your needs \o/ |
| 20:00.57 | g0urra | so you're too lazy to learn again |
| 20:01.06 | Tek0 | nope just too much of a noob figured id ask |
| 20:01.19 | Tek0 | when I asked, I was just looking for tips |
| 20:01.39 | Tek0 | clearly you guys dont get too many noobs around these parts.. |
| 20:01.51 | g0urra | nah it's just me being an asshole |
| 20:01.57 | Tek0 | yep I figured. |
| 20:01.59 | nevcairiel | its a developer channel, not a place for users to ask about what UI to use :d |
| 20:02.00 | Gnarfoz | nobody can answer "what do I need so it doesn't look like shit" because everybody has different opinions on that =) |
| 20:02.05 | g0urra | ^ |
| 20:02.15 | Tek0 | exactly, I was asking for peoples opinions gnar. |
| 20:02.40 | nevcairiel | if you want an opinion, using elvui will make it look even more like shit :D |
| 20:02.54 | g0urra | yeah I tried elvui, hated it |
| 20:03.11 | Semlar | i mostly use the default interface |
| 20:03.15 | Tek0 | okay, still looks like its worth a try im sure ill come to my own conclusion. but if i didnt ask I wouldnt have known about it so thanks anywase :) |
| 20:03.23 | Gnarfoz | ElvUI is nice for when you want something other than the default UI but don't want so spend time on it =) |
| 20:03.26 | Tek0 | yeah? I see alot of streamers use the default. |
| 20:03.39 | Semlar | i swap out a few things like the minimap |
| 20:03.47 | Semlar | and my nameplates |
| 20:04.06 | Tek0 | hm okay I dont know if I like the top left target bar |
| 20:04.07 | nevcairiel | i swap out actionbars and unitframes, afterwards not really much of the default UI left |
| 20:04.14 | Tek0 | my eyes have to move to far to look at it haha |
| 20:04.19 | g0urra | main addons I used were bartender, shadowed unitframes and icehud |
| 20:04.29 | Tek0 | ^ cool |
| 20:04.42 | Gnarfoz | good place to start would probably be one of those "show your UI" threads on wowinterface, mmo-champion or other places, they are a 10%/90% mix of posts that show off a nice-looking UI and people asking "what addon is that? and that? and that?" over and over again ;) |
| 20:04.50 | Semlar | if you want to customize it yourself you can use like pitbull or ouf or something i don't even know what people use any more |
| 20:05.21 | Semlar | the unit frames |
| 20:05.40 | Tek0 | oh wow I never thought of that gnar |
| 20:05.51 | Tek0 | that sounds like exactly what im looking for haha |
| 20:06.16 | Tek0 | side note - whats the channel dedicated to? |
| 20:06.27 | Tek0 | uidev... so im guessing making addons for the ui? :D |
| 20:06.39 | nevcairiel | developing addons, yes |
| 20:06.56 | Tek0 | awesome |
| 20:07.03 | Gnarfoz | WoW UI Dev - World of Warcraft User Interface Development =D |
| 20:07.04 | Tek0 | is it hard to get into? |
| 20:07.08 | Semlar | most of us are addon authors |
| 20:07.14 | Tek0 | im an intermediate programmer.. nothing special |
| 20:07.24 | Semlar | lua is a simple scripting language |
| 20:07.28 | Tek0 | sounds like lots of xml manipulation? |
| 20:07.31 | Tek0 | lua hm okay |
| 20:07.34 | Semlar | not much xml |
| 20:07.36 | Gnarfoz | actually, very little XML these days |
| 20:07.57 | Gnarfoz | if you're already a programmer, you're already better off than many other authors ;-) |
| 20:08.08 | Semlar | you don't need to use xml at all unless you really want to or need to do something specific |
| 20:08.27 | Tek0 | really? thats cool :) maybe ill check it out! thanks for all the info guys and not the trolls <3 |
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| 21:23.59 | foxlit | heh, forums are amusing |
| 21:24.13 | foxlit | “hey guys I’m trying to build a nuclear power plant. Could you tell me how I could boil some water?” |
| 21:49.07 | fewyn | Any of you own a dedicated gps unit? |
| 21:52.38 | nevcairiel | my father has a gps unit for his boat, if thats the sort of thing you mean |
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| 22:00.03 | Semlar | i have a garmin for my car |
| 22:00.29 | Semlar | granted the charger broke so it hasn't seen much action in a while |
| 22:06.33 | Mr_Rabies | most garmins nowadays use mini-usb b i think? |
| 22:06.36 | Mr_Rabies | maybe micro now |
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| 22:44.13 | fewyn | http://variety.com/2014/digital/news/youtube-to-acquire-videogame-streaming-service-twitch-for-1-billion-sources-1201185204/ |
| 22:47.08 | g0urra | goddamnit |
| 22:48.21 | fewyn | this could either be the worst thing ever or the best thing ever |
| 22:49.41 | Shirik | I'm not particularly surprised |
| 22:49.45 | Shirik | I expected that to happen a long time ago |
| 22:50.04 | fewyn | yeah i'm not super surprised |
| 22:51.29 | karl_w_w | worst thing ever |
| 22:51.33 | karl_w_w | it's the worst thing ever |
| 22:52.48 | karl_w_w | hopefully it gets blocked |
| 22:53.16 | fewyn | why is it the worst thing ever |
| 22:54.54 | karl_w_w | because youtube is crap and getting worse |
| 22:55.30 | fewyn | the reason youtube sucks is because of the isps |
| 22:55.34 | fewyn | not because of google |
| 22:55.40 | fewyn | they are throttling the videos |
| 22:55.50 | fewyn | because supposedly there's not enough "bandwidth" |
| 22:56.00 | g0urra | you mean that they use shit decoding and limit videos to 30fps? |
| 22:56.22 | karl_w_w | a video ad before every single youtube video |
| 22:56.39 | karl_w_w | the player which gets less functionality with each iteration |
| 22:58.07 | g0urra | the most popular video on my channel don't have an ad |
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| 22:58.13 | g0urra | so that's one point where you're wrong |
| 22:58.13 | Caleb| | not like twitch player is super awesome either |
| 22:58.29 | g0urra | also what do you mean that it gets less functionality |
| 22:58.43 | g0urra | referring to the pause annotation? |
| 22:59.08 | jleclanche | nevcairiel: Im gonna grab a new cpu, mobo and case and turn my current computer into a server. I still have my older ramsticks and faithful hitachi hard drive, all I would need is a new PSU for either of them |
| 22:59.26 | Arrowmaster | on TWC youtube always switched down to 144p and even buffers on that unless you block the ip range of one of the cdns, then when its only using the other cdn it will be super fast |
| 22:59.54 | Arrowmaster | jleclanche: server for what? |
| 23:00.03 | jleclanche | for everything I currently host on leclan.ch |
| 23:00.18 | jleclanche | quassel, http, etc |
| 23:00.27 | Arrowmaster | oh so nothing where you would be better off using ecc ram? |
| 23:00.28 | g0urra | so it's the ISPs' fault, not youtube |
| 23:00.45 | fewyn | yeah |
| 23:00.57 | fewyn | a lot of ISPs are throttling youtube specifically |
| 23:01.05 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: currently my main computer is my main server as well. this is impractical because i havent slept in a quiet room in years. |
| 23:01.21 | g0urra | good thing at least not my ISP don't do that crap |
| 23:01.34 | Arrowmaster | you arent in america |
| 23:01.46 | g0urra | s/not my/my/ |
| 23:01.57 | fewyn | at least facebook didn't buy twitch |
| 23:01.58 | karl_w_w | g0urra, slight exaggeration, it's more like 80% have an ad |
| 23:02.04 | fewyn | there's that |
| 23:02.08 | g0urra | so don't talk about how youtube is crap when it's american ISPs |
| 23:02.23 | g0urra | also I meant that many youtube videos don't have an ad in the beginning |
| 23:02.24 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster nevcairiel: Im wondering whether to get a more powerful PSU for my new station, or a less powerful one for the computer Im turning into a server. |
| 23:02.28 | karl_w_w | as for the player, inability to stop download on a video, inability to buffer a whole video |
| 23:02.44 | karl_w_w | and then of course there's the absolutely ridiculous copyright rules |
| 23:02.58 | karl_w_w | which are putting youtube at peril |
| 23:03.37 | Mr_Rabies | also google+ integration was a nightmare |
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| 23:03.50 | Mr_Rabies | youtube circa 2011 was its peak more or less |
| 23:04.29 | g0urra | the "you have a comment on x video" system was absolutely horrid before g+ integration |
| 23:04.34 | g0urra | would only show the latest comment |
| 23:04.34 | Mr_Rabies | that's when most of the youtube partners started up and a lot of original content was being produced, since then it's been a series of missteps that have scared off a ton of content creators |
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| 23:04.55 | Mr_Rabies | i just turned off all comments on my videos since i can't respond to them |
| 23:04.59 | g0urra | "content creators" |
| 23:05.15 | g0urra | yeah all let's players are real content creators |
| 23:05.20 | Mr_Rabies | lol |
| 23:05.48 | g0urra | "watch me play a scary game and imitate people like pukediepie" |
| 23:05.57 | Mr_Rabies | all the normal boots guys made their own site again as a fallout shelter to youtube's missteps, classic game room did the same |
| 23:06.03 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: whats the best intel cpu on the market right now? with the new chipset recently released |
| 23:06.08 | karl_w_w | sadly the definition of a content creator doesn't match your exacting standards |
| 23:06.25 | Arrowmaster | how old is the newest chipset? |
| 23:06.33 | jleclanche | less than months afaik |
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| 23:07.41 | Arrowmaster | there should be a 'haswell refresh' middle of this year |
| 23:08.00 | Semlar | Mr_Rabies: the car charger fell apart so i'd have to buy a new one |
| 23:08.52 | plaw | google bought twitch eh |
| 23:08.52 | plaw | well, youtube... |
| 23:09.01 | Mr_Rabies | their partner program is quickly drying up, if youtube doesn't fix itself quickly it'll basically just be forced meme "viral videos" if a true competitor ever really surfaces |
| 23:10.04 | jleclanche | plaw: what? |
| 23:10.11 | jleclanche | nvm |
| 23:10.33 | plaw | Mr_Rabies: yeah I'm still rather surprised at that, I guess GOOG/YT wanted to maintain too much control |
| 23:10.47 | Arrowmaster | jleclanche: 4670 probably |
| 23:10.50 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: I cant even tell what the latest chip is |
| 23:10.58 | Arrowmaster | its haswell |
| 23:11.04 | Mr_Rabies | they just want viral videos nowadays, it seems, plaw |
| 23:11.13 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: whats nehalem? |
| 23:11.21 | Mr_Rabies | seems their experiment with actual content creation is over, the real money's with guerilla marketing i guess |
| 23:11.31 | g0urra | define "want" |
| 23:11.36 | Arrowmaster | that was the first i7 chipset |
| 23:11.36 | plaw | Mr_Rabies: platform for distributing hangout content, too |
| 23:11.52 | Mr_Rabies | >implying anyone uses hangouts |
| 23:12.02 | Arrowmaster | we use it for blizzcon |
| 23:12.26 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: are you sure its not Broadwell? |
| 23:12.52 | jleclanche | Broadwell is Intel's codename for the 14 nanometer die shrink of its Haswell microarchitecture, following the Intel's tick-tock principle as the next step in semiconductor fabrication.[1][2] |
| 23:13.05 | Arrowmaster | i dont think broadwell is out yet |
| 23:13.16 | jleclanche | ah |
| 23:13.29 | Arrowmaster | should be out next year |
| 23:13.41 | jleclanche | On 12 February 2014, digitimes.com quoted "upstream supply chain" sources saying that Broadwell production had been postponed from the first quarter of 2014 to the fourth quarter of 2014, with mass shipments in the first quarter of 2015 |
| 23:13.43 | jleclanche | meh |
| 23:14.39 | karl_w_w | im pretty sure they'll soon run out of nanometers to not use |
| 23:14.52 | jleclanche | ~karl_w_w++ |
| 23:15.09 | karl_w_w | grows by 1 |
| 23:16.26 | Arrowmaster | theres mention of a 'haswell refresh' with some minor updates middle of this year |
| 23:16.42 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/06/06/might-haswell-upgrade-your-cpu-not-for-your-desktop-rig/ |
| 23:16.44 | jleclanche | hm |
| 23:18.01 | Arrowmaster | i wish levenos x1 carbon used a cpu with more than just an hd 4400 for gfx |
| 23:18.37 | Arrowmaster | if it was from the gt3 line instead of gt2 i would buy one of those to replace my current laptop |
| 23:20.38 | Gnarfoz | didn't nevcairiel and others answer these questions just a couple of days ago, jleclanche |
| 23:20.53 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: no, we were talking about motherboards and gpus then :P |
| 23:20.54 | Gnarfoz | (might have been for someone else asking, I forget) |
| 23:21.07 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: Looking around, these two look like the top of the line. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-Unlocked-Unleashed-Hyper-Threading-Technology/dp/B00EONU086/ http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-Hyper-Threading-Technology-Virtualisation-Directed/dp/B00EMHM622/ |
| 23:21.11 | Gnarfoz | you're buying both, so |
| 23:21.27 | Gnarfoz | and I'm pretty sure we talked about haswell refresh vs. devil's canyon, too |
| 23:21.41 | jleclanche | you mentioned devil's canyon I still have no idea what it is |
| 23:21.52 | Gnarfoz | maybe google it? |
| 23:21.54 | Mr_Rabies | it's a code word for yer butt |
| 23:21.56 | Arrowmaster | wtf line are those from? |
| 23:22.08 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: I did and this is what I found http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-haswell-e-devils-canyon-pentium-anniversary-edition-broadwell,26326.html |
| 23:22.27 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: but you mentioned they were out, which they're not |
| 23:22.39 | Gnarfoz | Haswell Refresh is, except the K-models |
| 23:22.43 | Gnarfoz | which are Devil's Canyon |
| 23:22.58 | Gnarfoz | "unlocked" = K |
| 23:23.04 | jleclanche | "unlocked"? |
| 23:23.05 | Gnarfoz | (for the last 4 years) |
| 23:23.14 | Gnarfoz | unlocked clock multiplier |
| 23:23.43 | Arrowmaster | unlocked multiplier but a few other features like vt-d disabled |
| 23:23.47 | Gnarfoz | are you sure you want to build a computer for yourself? you seem to have a lot of catching up to do |
| 23:23.49 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: so eg. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-Unlocked-Unleashed-Hyper-Threading-Technology/dp/B00EONU086 is not from the refresh? |
| 23:24.09 | Gnarfoz | it clearly says "Ivy Bridge-E" |
| 23:24.28 | Gnarfoz | that can't be "Haswell refresh", since Haswell is Ivy Bridge's successor |
| 23:24.45 | Arrowmaster | "haswell refresh" isnt out yet |
| 23:24.46 | jleclanche | we have a different definition of "clearly" |
| 23:24.49 | Gnarfoz | (however, -E is extreme; different socket, more memory controllers, price++) |
| 23:24.57 | Gnarfoz | Arrowmaster: not true |
| 23:25.10 | Arrowmaster | it is out? |
| 23:25.11 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: I was considering just upgrading the gpu, but I'm now considering just splitting my computer into a separate server and an upgraded beast for work/gaming. |
| 23:25.33 | jleclanche | one of the reasons is Im sick of having 7 external hard drives under my desk. |
| 23:25.57 | Gnarfoz | should have bought a proper case and bought internals instead ;p |
| 23:26.04 | jleclanche | what? |
| 23:26.12 | Gnarfoz | a case? with more room for HDDs? |
| 23:26.18 | Gnarfoz | Arrowmaster: "haswell refresh" is just some crappy new models with increased clocks, you're thinking of devil's canyon, unless I'm even more confused than a couple of days ago :D |
| 23:26.19 | jleclanche | .. i dont want more internal HDDs? |
| 23:26.31 | Gnarfoz | sigh |
| 23:26.36 | Gnarfoz | needs more sarcasm font |
| 23:26.41 | jleclanche | clearly |
| 23:26.44 | Gnarfoz | you complained about external HDDs |
| 23:26.52 | Gnarfoz | so I suggested internals instead ;p |
| 23:27.34 | jleclanche | anyway, at this point if I upgrade my cpu and mobo (which I intend to do this year), I will just need a case and psu for a solid separate machine |
| 23:28.42 | Semlar | that is a lot of external hard drives |
| 23:28.52 | jleclanche | your face is a lot of external hard drives. |
| 23:28.57 | Semlar | oh |
| 23:29.14 | Arrowmaster | i want one of these to build a server with http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-d8000/ |
| 23:29.47 | Gnarfoz | that's what nevcairiel has, afaik |
| 23:29.54 | jleclanche | things I don't want on my computer case: WHEELS |
| 23:30.16 | Gnarfoz | you're missing out |
| 23:30.28 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaTHut (tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 23:30.34 | Gnarfoz | very helpful for such beasts ^^ |
| 23:30.36 | Arrowmaster | i had a coolermaster case with good wheels and loved it, then i got a different coolermaster case and the wheels on it were so tiny they broke as soon as i put 10 hard drives in it |
| 23:30.41 | jleclanche | if i move my computer more than 5cm theres about 20 cables that pop |
| 23:30.58 | Semlar | that sounds like a great setup |
| 23:31.04 | Gnarfoz | sounds like bad cable management. also, they're obviously for when you're moving it. |
| 23:31.15 | Gnarfoz | (and can be locked if you don't want to) |
| 23:31.16 | jleclanche | Semlar: there is a reason I want to split this setup in two |
| 23:31.19 | g0urra | Arrowmaster: Coolermaster HAF X? |
| 23:31.29 | Arrowmaster | no this was years and years ago |
| 23:31.31 | Gnarfoz | I had an original Coolermaster Stacker |
| 23:31.33 | g0urra | oh |
| 23:31.45 | Arrowmaster | yeah these were coolermaster stackers |
| 23:32.02 | Arrowmaster | the original with room for 2 psu's has the good wheels |
| 23:32.06 | Gnarfoz | or rather, have, it's sitting a couple of meters from here, unused, unloved |
| 23:32.24 | Arrowmaster | then the new stacker with room for only 1 psu in the top had the bad wheels |
| 23:32.43 | Arrowmaster | i have both sitting here next to me with broken pcs in them |
| 23:32.49 | Gnarfoz | that's the one I have, although it was really to alternatively make it into a BTX case |
| 23:33.15 | Gnarfoz | the original STC-T01 that is |
| 23:33.26 | Arrowmaster | did btx ever go anywhere? |
| 23:33.38 | Gnarfoz | only for OEM PCs, and I don't think very far |
| 23:34.08 | Gnarfoz | I do have 3 of the HDD modules for it, could fit 12 HDDs in there :D |
| 23:34.40 | Arrowmaster | yeah ive got 2 of those |
| 23:35.14 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: So heres my question for you: on an unlimited budget, what last-gen cpu would you get along with a Z97 mobo, keeping in mind that I don't overclock and I compile a lot (also, I'm on a 550W PSU but that may change) |
| 23:35.33 | Arrowmaster | z97 would be haswell only |
| 23:35.55 | jleclanche | thats 2011 right? |
| 23:35.58 | Gnarfoz | no |
| 23:36.08 | Gnarfoz | the only reason to buy anything older would be ivy-e for the additional cores, but I doubt that makes much sense |
| 23:36.53 | jleclanche | 2011 is ivy bridge? I thought 2011 was the new one |
| 23:37.10 | Arrowmaster | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_1150 |
| 23:37.26 | Arrowmaster | no 2011 is old |
| 23:37.29 | jleclanche | man i thought 1150 was what I currently have |
| 23:37.34 | Gnarfoz | doubtful |
| 23:37.36 | Gnarfoz | if your PC is old |
| 23:37.37 | Arrowmaster | 1155 is ivy and sandy |
| 23:37.45 | jleclanche | Gnarfoz: clearly, i have a firstgen i7 |
| 23:37.51 | Gnarfoz | that should be 1156? |
| 23:37.59 | jleclanche | that explains my confusion |
| 23:38.01 | Gnarfoz | hehe |
| 23:38.15 | Arrowmaster | thats 1366 i think |
| 23:38.22 | Gnarfoz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_1156 |
| 23:38.23 | jleclanche | LGA 1150 |
| 23:38.23 | jleclanche | PredecessorLGA 1155 |
| 23:38.30 | jleclanche | fire these guys |
| 23:38.41 | Gnarfoz | it's by number of pins, it has no logical ordering |
| 23:38.42 | Gnarfoz | :| |
| 23:38.52 | jleclanche | Im being obtuse, Gnarfoz |
| 23:39.01 | Gnarfoz | at least AMD's sockets have non-pin namings |
| 23:39.04 | Gnarfoz | (nowadays) |
| 23:39.42 | Gnarfoz | Intel sockets are a veritable clusterfuck |
| 23:39.48 | jleclanche | what happens when they make a new socket with the same number of pins |
| 23:39.54 | Arrowmaster | they dont |
| 23:40.02 | jleclanche | have a little imagination. |
| 23:40.12 | Arrowmaster | theyll include dummy pins if they have to in order to prevent that i bet |
| 23:40.47 | jleclanche | you know what I need? a cgpgrey video on intel chips |
| 23:41.30 | Arrowmaster | its not hard to figure it all out from some wikipedia pages |
| 23:42.01 | Gnarfoz | one of my most visited wiki pages is "list of intel microprocessors" ^ ^ |
| 23:42.08 | jleclanche | no kidding |
| 23:42.11 | Arrowmaster | its a great page |
| 23:42.32 | jleclanche | so 4770K would be the best bet for a z87? |
| 23:42.55 | Arrowmaster | are you getting a z87? you said z97 earlier i thought |
| 23:43.08 | jleclanche | fuck, typod my search |
| 23:43.30 | jleclanche | right, 4790. is there *any* reason to wait? |
| 23:43.41 | jleclanche | like. is there a new imminent release? |
| 23:43.47 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 23:43.49 | Gnarfoz | there always is |
| 23:43.59 | Arrowmaster | why are you getting an i7? |
| 23:44.07 | jleclanche | why shouldnt I get one? |
| 23:44.08 | Arrowmaster | what makes you need an i7 over an i5 |
| 23:44.14 | Arrowmaster | cost |
| 23:44.21 | Gnarfoz | more threads \o/ |
| 23:44.29 | jleclanche | Im on a limitless budget and I compile half of my day |
| 23:44.43 | Arrowmaster | i7 it is then |
| 23:44.54 | Arrowmaster | next question, do you need vt-d or vpro? |
| 23:45.09 | Arrowmaster | or will you overclock the cpu? |
| 23:45.16 | Gnarfoz | no OC'ing he said |
| 23:45.26 | jleclanche | I dont overclock. vt-d is something for virtualization? Im reading on it |
| 23:45.31 | Gnarfoz | vt-d is for passing devices straight into VMs |
| 23:45.33 | Arrowmaster | if you arent OC'ing then skip the K line |
| 23:45.38 | Gnarfoz | I/O MMU virtualization |
| 23:45.55 | jleclanche | yeah thats the sort of thing that could be useful |
| 23:46.00 | Gnarfoz | vPro is remote management crap, you don't need it |
| 23:46.05 | jleclanche | yeah no |
| 23:46.27 | Gnarfoz | I doubt you'll have much actual use of vt-d, but since you don't need OC, and thus, no K model, you'll get it either way |
| 23:46.27 | kd3 | wait, what? rumors of youtube buying out twitch? |
| 23:46.41 | Gnarfoz | (since K-model & vt-d are currently exclusive of each other) |
| 23:47.27 | Gnarfoz | rumours? that's what you get from having such slow internet, even the news are slow to reach you, kd3 :D |
| 23:47.34 | Arrowmaster | jleclanche: are you truely on a limitless budget? if so get the 5960X |
| 23:47.44 | Arrowmaster | but its not out yet |
| 23:47.46 | Gnarfoz | that's not available |
| 23:47.47 | Gnarfoz | yeah |
| 23:47.47 | Gnarfoz | :\ |
| 23:48.03 | jleclanche | whats so awesome about it? |
| 23:48.06 | Arrowmaster | 8 core (16 with HT) |
| 23:48.10 | Gnarfoz | double the threads |
| 23:48.17 | Gnarfoz | it's the LGA 2011 extreme edition of haswell |
| 23:48.18 | Gnarfoz | Haswell-E |
| 23:48.26 | jleclanche | also Gnarfoz i think Arrowmaster interpreted "limitless budget" as "bribe intel employees" |
| 23:48.29 | Gnarfoz | but it's not going to be out before Q3/2014 |
| 23:48.44 | Gnarfoz | jleclanche: a valid interpretation, to be sure! |
| 23:48.45 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 23:49.13 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: don't you have an ivy-e? |
| 23:49.23 | *** join/#wowuidev john3213 (john3213@static-72-66-66-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:50.31 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: so, barring bribes, what do you recommend then? |
| 23:50.42 | Arrowmaster | 4790 then i guess |
| 23:51.50 | Gnarfoz | which is part of Haswell Refresh ;-) |
| 23:52.20 | jleclanche | sidenote, you telling me this is an old model? http://www.amazon.co.uk/INTEL-i7-4960X-Processor-Without-Cooler/ |
| 23:52.30 | jleclanche | because holy price |
| 23:52.33 | Gnarfoz | b0rken link |
| 23:52.39 | jleclanche | http://www.amazon.co.uk/INTEL-i7-4960X-Processor-Without-Cooler/dp/B00F3TZ1JI |
| 23:53.02 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 23:53.06 | Arrowmaster | thats an extreme edition |
| 23:53.13 | Gnarfoz | yes, that's ivy-e, LGA 2011, 6c/12T |
| 23:53.22 | jleclanche | man |
| 23:53.30 | Gnarfoz | top model here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_Bridge_(microarchitecture)#Desktop_processors |
| 23:54.10 | Arrowmaster | that could be better than the 4790 |
| 23:54.26 | *** part/#wowuidev john3213 (john3213@static-72-66-66-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:54.28 | Gnarfoz | possibly, but, way more expensive |
| 23:54.29 | jleclanche | yeah but if its old socket i cant get it |
| 23:54.42 | Gnarfoz | depends on what intel will do for the haswell-e |
| 23:54.49 | Gnarfoz | if they keep using the 2011 socket, you'd be fine |
| 23:55.05 | Gnarfoz | but you could only upgrade to the next "extreme edition" model, which has a traditional price of $999 |
| 23:55.15 | jleclanche | 4790 is not in here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell_(microarchitecture)#Desktop_processors |
| 23:55.22 | Gnarfoz | yeah, not updated, yet |
| 23:55.24 | Arrowmaster | its not |
| 23:55.27 | Gnarfoz | those were just released |
| 23:55.49 | jleclanche | what are the 4790S? |
| 23:56.00 | Gnarfoz | lower power version |
| 23:56.07 | jleclanche | thought as much |
| 23:56.30 | Gnarfoz | http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=cpu1150&asd=on&asuch=i7-4790&xf=596_Haswell#xf_top |
| 23:56.41 | Gnarfoz | oh, forgot to remove the search terms |
| 23:56.50 | jleclanche | amazon is offering me a £100 gift certificate if i spend £2000 |
| 23:56.51 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower|Work (~MentalPow@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 23:56.51 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower|Work] by ChanServ |
| 23:57.04 | Gnarfoz | how nice of them :D |
| 23:57.33 | jleclanche | okay, last question |
| 23:57.33 | jleclanche | http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-BX80646I74790-Core-i7-4790-in-a-Box/dp/B00K3E8NZC/ |
| 23:57.40 | jleclanche | as opposed to "without a box" or am I missing something? |
| 23:58.02 | Gnarfoz | as opposed to "tray" |
| 23:58.11 | Arrowmaster | with box probably includes the standard heatsink |
| 23:58.12 | Gnarfoz | you want "boxed", the other ones are without warranty |
| 23:58.19 | Arrowmaster | and that |
| 23:58.20 | jleclanche | ah |
| 23:58.27 | Gnarfoz | intel officially only sells the boxed ones to end users |
| 23:58.46 | jleclanche | do intel heatsink attachments still suck? |
| 23:58.57 | Gnarfoz | bye bye Wildstar beta char *waves* |
| 23:59.04 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 23:59.13 | Gnarfoz | depends on what you're comparing them to? they're rather simple |
| 23:59.33 | jleclanche | the shitty plastic pins that always either break themselves or break the motherboard. |
| 23:59.41 | Gnarfoz | oO you're doing it wrong |
| 23:59.43 | Arrowmaster | never had one of those |
