| 00:10.08 | Semlar | neffiweb |
| 00:17.00 | Neffiweb | semlar |
| 00:17.16 | Semlar | what are you doing neffiweb |
| 00:17.36 | Neffiweb | eaten pizza at my friends house |
| 00:17.57 | Semlar | ah, you felt it was more important to come talk to me than them, i understand |
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| 00:21.44 | Neffiweb | yes |
| 00:26.45 | Semlar | ^_^ |
| 00:28.41 | Neffiweb | gives Semlar some pizza |
| 00:28.47 | Semlar | dies |
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| 00:42.07 | phelps | what would cause a frame to almost never respond to OnMouseUp |
| 00:42.18 | phelps | if I spam click it, sometimes it goes |
| 00:42.38 | j311yf1sh | clicking on somethining else in front of the frame? |
| 00:42.54 | phelps | nah, its on top |
| 00:44.56 | phelps | ... |
| 00:45.01 | phelps | OnMouseDown works fine |
| 00:45.57 | phelps | I don't even care, MouseDown it is |
| 00:46.49 | Trela_ | *Shrugs* My kind of solution! |
| 00:47.33 | phelps | :shipit: |
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| 01:15.10 | Shadowed | Torhal :( |
| 01:15.34 | Torhal | Shadowed: ? |
| 01:15.40 | Shadowed | Torhal looks like SUFs packager broke |
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| 01:25.34 | Torhal | Shadowed: All good now. |
| 01:25.37 | Shadowed | thanks! |
| 01:25.42 | Torhal | np! |
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| 02:29.23 | phelps | someone gave me a code snippet for making a frame sizer handle |
| 02:29.37 | phelps | are you around or does anyone have it |
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| 02:39.00 | Neffi | phelps: something like this http://codepad.org/fEKiFHAg |
| 02:39.25 | Neffi | like 4 should be: :SetSize(16,16) |
| 02:39.46 | Mr_Rabies | DATAMINER_RED_HERRING:: There is no cow level. |
| 02:39.47 | Mr_Rabies | lmao |
| 02:40.01 | phelps | Neffi, yeah ! |
| 02:40.10 | phelps | awesome, thanks |
| 02:40.41 | Neffi | I think that's how StartSizing works. test it |
| 02:45.05 | Neffi | http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/04/future-windows-8-1-update-will-finally-bring-back-the-start-menu/ hmm, nobody pointed out that Metro apps could run in the desktop in this update, and that's a good idea |
| 02:45.40 | Neffi | But I sure hope somebody can whip up a program to remove the tiles from that start menu, and reintroduce exactly what was there in Win7. I actually use those links often, and keep all my games in the Games menu |
| 02:53.56 | Neffi | http://www.reddit.com/r/thingsjonsnowknows lol |
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| 03:20.00 | Kraps | http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2014/april/Mace_2h_DraenorChallenge_D_01.jpg |
| 03:20.15 | Kraps | these arent weapons even! |
| 03:44.18 | kd3 | damn it, this is supposed to be spring! |
| 03:44.29 | kd3 | looks for a sweater or something |
| 03:47.08 | Neffi | the starks tried warning us! |
| 03:52.28 | Iriel | It IS spring - the weather’s been fine! |
| 03:52.47 | Neffi | Where you live? |
| 03:53.02 | Neffi | It went from a very humid ~82 to a very chilly ~32 here in one day's time |
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| 04:13.59 | Sintacks | well shit. now i need to find someone with an iPad I can use for a few minutes. |
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| 05:25.18 | airtonix | come on guy |
| 05:25.43 | airtonix | no one uses those old russian toys anymore |
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| 07:00.16 | Fisker | it can't Neffi |
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| 07:03.36 | Neffi | ? |
| 07:05.15 | Fisker | You can't run metro apps in the desktop |
| 07:06.26 | Neffi | ok |
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| 09:00.12 | airtonix | you can't stop me Fisker |
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| 10:34.05 | karl_w_w | stops airtonix |
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| 11:22.19 | airtonix | and was not stopped |
| 11:25.06 | airtonix | http://i.imgur.com/OhbWZPX.png |
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| 12:08.43 | zenzelezz | O_o |
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| 13:07.27 | Dagmar | zenzelezz: This is why you don't hire overseas tech worker firms |
| 13:07.53 | Dagmar | Betcha Rudy's real name has a lot of i's or j's in it |
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| 13:46.23 | jleclanche | in hearthstone if you faceless a minion that has a "this turn only" buff on it, does the buff stay? |
| 13:46.33 | jleclanche | eg a minion buffed by a DI dwarf |
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| 13:52.22 | haste | don't you just get a copy of the unit in its current state? |
| 13:52.57 | jleclanche | haste: you do, but Im not sure if the "this turn only" applies to the buff or the unit |
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| 13:59.28 | haste | I'd expect that if you faceless a DI dwarf, you'd get a DI dwarf, that would have DI just as long as the original DI dwarf |
| 14:00.27 | Fisker | You'd expect a lot of shit with Hearthstone haste |
| 14:00.34 | haste | :D |
| 14:05.33 | karl_w_w | the copy has the buff jleclanche |
| 14:05.54 | jleclanche | karl_w_w: i know it has the buff but for how long? |
| 14:05.56 | karl_w_w | which is why leeroy+power overwhelming+faceless finisher works |
| 14:06.05 | karl_w_w | for the rest of the turn |
| 14:06.20 | karl_w_w | the game doesnt have timers in it' |
| 14:06.23 | jleclanche | k |
| 14:07.20 | karl_w_w | it just has a bunch of checks, so if a buff has 'this turn only' it will end when the turn ends |
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| 14:09.49 | Fisker | Will things that last for multiple turns then last indefinitely? |
| 14:13.22 | Jamash | such as? |
| 14:15.36 | g0urra | pft, DAoC and UO on steam greenlight |
| 14:16.14 | Fisker | no |
| 14:17.15 | pompy | http://tbo.com/ap/offbeat2/nj-german-shepherd-gets-called-to-jury-duty-20140416/ lols? |
| 14:18.26 | g0urra | yes Fisker |
| 14:19.19 | Fisker | no |
| 14:19.21 | Fisker | :( |
| 14:23.15 | g0urra | http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=249828843 |
| 14:23.20 | g0urra | http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=249850626 |
| 14:23.32 | rid_ | no |
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| 14:31.21 | Fisker | Lopeppeppy |
| 14:31.34 | Lopeppeppy | Yes dear. |
| 14:31.49 | Fisker | I'm not a deer :( |
| 14:32.02 | Fisker | btw hi |
| 14:32.33 | Lopeppeppy | Are you a dier? |
| 14:33.28 | Fisker | I'm afraid to answer |
| 14:34.00 | karl_w_w | pompy, that story should actually be headlined: ridiculously-named narcissist names his dog after himself |
| 14:34.29 | g0urra | fisker have you greenlighted DAoC and UO yet |
| 14:34.32 | karl_w_w | because the current headline is just a lie |
| 14:34.45 | Fisker | I wouldn't greenlight it even if it was the last game not on steam g0urra |
| 14:34.48 | Fisker | oh burn |
| 14:35.03 | g0urra | man I hoped you'd say no |
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| 15:23.59 | Jamash | oh dear god no |
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| 16:07.03 | jleclanche | this ncurses pacman clone is 18mb large |
| 16:07.09 | jleclanche | i am actually impressed. |
| 16:07.26 | jleclanche | 18 megabytes of text for a command line text-only clone of a game that was under a megabyte. |
| 16:09.35 | Maldivia | but... how?! |
| 16:10.39 | Dagmar | Sooo many escape codes and very likely, hand-drawn 100% ascii maps of mazes |
| 16:17.57 | jleclanche | yep |
| 16:20.13 | Dagmar | You should see that bash port of Dwarf Fortress |
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| 17:22.15 | jleclanche | CM privacyguard is nice but what I need is the same thing for fucking network access. |
| 17:22.36 | jleclanche | make select apps think network is unavailable |
| 17:27.35 | jleclanche | kd3|hate`net: ping |
| 17:27.39 | kd3|hate`net | pong |
| 17:27.42 | kd3|hate`net | (oh, emails away) |
| 17:40.07 | Dagmar | jleclanche: 4.4 has Selinux enabled with policies |
| 17:40.25 | Dagmar | jleclanche: 4.3 has SELinux enabled, but in permissive mode. Enable strict mode at your own risk. |
| 17:40.28 | jleclanche | Dagmar: what does that mean from a UI pov? |
| 17:40.52 | Dagmar | It means that in 4.3 all the policies are there, but SELinux merely logs violations instead of blocking htem. |
| 17:40.53 | jleclanche | i cba to ssh into my phone to deal with this shit, and im certainly not gonna type in the android terminal emulator |
| 17:41.04 | jleclanche | no i mean, how do i enable this shit to do what i want |
| 17:41.12 | Dagmar | In 4.4 if you don't want an app to have access to any little thing, you can take it away with only an hour or two's research |
| 17:41.36 | jleclanche | .. you're joking/trolling right? |
| 17:41.37 | Dagmar | SELinux is _very_ granular and can readily revoke access to individual devices from any given program |
| 17:42.22 | Dagmar | Until you *know* SELinux *and* are familiar with how labeling works, it's the #1 way to reduce a Linux box to a completely nonfunctional device |
| 17:42.40 | Dagmar | It's a mandatory access control method. |
| 17:42.42 | jleclanche | I know SELinux, thats not my point |
| 17:42.54 | jleclanche | it's a phone, I'm looking for a better solution than that |
| 17:43.20 | jleclanche | and i dont mean a more granular one, i mean a frigging switch :P |
| 17:43.28 | Dagmar | You can always try extracting the apk, tampering with the permissions manifest, and then reinstalling it, ignoring the shrill warnings about the package having been tampered with |
| 17:43.34 | alestane | Liek a remote admin app, or something? |
| 17:43.46 | Dagmar | The only way you're getting a "switch" without major hassle is to turn off networking |
| 17:43.51 | alestane | isn't really paying attention. |
| 17:44.03 | Dagmar | You can install Terminal IDE and then ifconfig down some interfaces |
| 17:44.33 | Dagmar | ...or you can iptables that shit out |
| 17:44.48 | jleclanche | Dagmar: thats what i do right now yes, Im hoping to control this on a per-app basis. seeing as turning the network off is one of the easiest, most clear-cut ways to turn off both ads *and* tracking, I wouldve figured that there already exists a solution to do exactly this |
| 17:44.50 | Dagmar | "Android" it may be, but it's still basically a Linux box |
| 17:45.39 | Dagmar | jleclanche: It's sort of assumed by Android that anything an app asks for it requires, so they don't really let you flip resources on and off on an app |
| 17:46.06 | Dagmar | ...but you can definitely strip it out of the permissions manifest so that when it installs it doesn't tell Android it needs to use the network, and then Android won't let it |
| 17:46.32 | jleclanche | Dagmar: cyanogenmod does, with privacy guard |
| 17:46.33 | jleclanche | well, ish |
| 17:46.43 | jleclanche | it lets you turn off access to contacts and other personal APIs |
| 17:46.46 | jleclanche | but not networking :/ |
| 17:48.22 | kd3 | ...wow http://freshbsd.org/commit/openbsd/e5136d69ece4682e6167c8f4a8122270236898bf |
| 17:49.07 | Dagmar | jleclanche: afaik it only toggles permissions manifest items from http://developer.android.com/reference/android/Manifest.permission.html |
| 17:49.58 | Dagmar | You *should* be able to find the INTERNET permission in there sommewhere |
| 17:50.03 | Dagmar | If not I'd submit a feature request |
| 18:03.27 | kd3 | ep1 of azeroth choppers is out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amMFuMoJObc |
| 18:03.40 | kd3 | why are we reliving the mid-2000s again? |
| 18:06.43 | Lopeppeppy | Because we liked the music? |
| 18:10.07 | Unkle | Because there are no new ideas |
| 18:11.45 | g0urra | the 2000s had an awful lot of shitty music. |
| 18:16.29 | Fisker | asd Lopeppeppy |
| 18:17.42 | Lopeppeppy | Oh yeah, Fisker? |
| 18:18.03 | Fisker | Yeah |
| 18:29.53 | Arrowmaster | jleclanche: have you used appops? |
| 18:30.01 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: never heard |
| 18:30.21 | Arrowmaster | it was removed from 4.4 but ive got it back with xposed |
| 18:30.34 | Arrowmaster | you can basically disable any permission you want for an app |
| 18:31.21 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: hm, I thought that was privacyguard. |
| 18:31.36 | jleclanche | which is why i was surprised when it didnt let me be more specific |
| 18:31.39 | Arrowmaster | i havent used CM since i got my N5 |
| 18:32.14 | Arrowmaster | hmm im not seeing network in mine |
| 18:32.35 | Arrowmaster | i have everything else though, i can disable an app from using the camera or reading contacts but not from using the network |
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| 18:49.18 | Lopeppeppy | Web team /= email support. *wrists* |
| 18:50.50 | Arrowmaster | jleclanche: so have you seen the new show Fargo? |
| 18:50.57 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: nope |
| 18:51.28 | Arrowmaster | jleclanche: its got martin freeman in it doing a super thick american accent |
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| 18:53.10 | Fisker | hey Lopeppeppy |
| 18:53.13 | Fisker | wanna be friends? |
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| 18:55.04 | Arrowmaster | jleclanche: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3neOuPV2J9w |
| 18:55.07 | Lopeppeppy | I will be your friend, Fisker. |
| 18:55.12 | Fisker | woo |
| 18:55.27 | Fisker | Wanna band up and kill people? |
| 19:06.46 | Dagmar | This is relevant to my interests. |
| 19:13.54 | Fisker | It would be |
| 19:16.58 | Dagmar | I live in a state that keeps trying to put creationism into science class curriculum. Can you really blame me? |
| 19:17.14 | Ressy | oh geez |
| 19:17.58 | Torhal | Dagmar: I didn't realize Texas had annexed Tennessee. |
| 19:18.59 | Dagmar | No, it's just the same disease of mental disability |
| 19:22.38 | Fisker | man just because you believe something else doesn't mean creationism isn't a valid theory man |
| 19:22.48 | Dagmar | It's not a _scientific_ theory |
| 19:22.58 | Fisker | same diff |
| 19:23.12 | alestane | Not falsifiable. |
| 19:23.16 | Dagmar | If they can teach creationism in science class, then we get to teach evolution in sunday school. |
| 19:23.28 | Fisker | you can't do that |
| 19:23.33 | Dagmar | Watch me. |
| 19:23.38 | Torhal | I want to teach trumpet-playing in a violin class. |
| 19:23.39 | Fisker | The government can't interfere with religion |
| 19:23.41 | Dagmar | I would volunteer for that |
| 19:23.52 | Dagmar | ...and religion shoudn't interfere in government. |
| 19:24.05 | Dagmar | ...and it _really_ shouldn't flirt with pissing off the smart people. |
| 19:24.25 | Fisker | Well stupid people is in charge anyway |
| 19:24.55 | Dagmar | "In charge" and "in control" are two different things. |
| 19:25.19 | Fisker | Stupid people are both at the moment I believe |
| 19:25.22 | alestane | Anyone know if this article describes something that actually happened? http://topekasnews.com/oklahoma-protesters-threaten-secdee-union-neil-degrasse-tysons-cosmos-cancelled/ |
| 19:25.24 | Dagmar | I've got a bag of plastic eggs and a small stack of little cards that say "We gave your chocolate to Jesus" |
| 19:25.36 | zenzelezz | fake but funny https://twitter.com/_GRRM_/status/456824016641486848 |
| 19:25.37 | Dagmar | My mood next Saturday night determines whether or not i use them |
| 19:25.48 | Fisker | speaking of cosmos |
| 19:25.55 | Fisker | I find it funny that Fox produces shit like that |
| 19:26.31 | Dagmar | zopsi: I wouldn't say "more effective". The extra cores would just be wasted. It's not like they'd slow things down |
| 19:26.33 | Dagmar | @#$ |
| 19:26.52 | alestane | The main point of the article seems to be a paean to why people who deliberately immerse themselves in ignorance should not make policy. |
| 19:28.42 | alestane | And apparently it's another satire site. |
| 19:28.56 | alestane | I thought the bullshit meter was starting to go off. |
| 19:40.11 | jleclanche | Arrowmaster: look ssomewhat interesting. |
| 19:40.21 | jleclanche | martin freeman with an american accent tho |
| 19:40.22 | jleclanche | noty |
| 19:40.32 | Arrowmaster | watch the first episode |
| 19:40.36 | jleclanche | theres a reason i love brits and it's not their retarded food |
| 19:40.39 | Arrowmaster | well its the only episode right now |
| 19:40.47 | jleclanche | is it good? |
| 19:40.55 | Arrowmaster | very |
| 19:41.19 | jleclanche | fair enough. ill have a look once more episodes are up, thanks |
| 19:41.24 | jleclanche | actually.. |
| 19:41.36 | jleclanche | alright fine |
| 19:45.48 | Arrowmaster | the first 7 minutes are on youtube |
| 19:45.56 | jleclanche | i have it |
| 19:46.16 | Arrowmaster | the ending is what will hook you though |
| 19:47.07 | jleclanche | ill watch it in a bit |
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| 20:01.35 | zenzelezz | sweet; ordered a medium pizza, got a big. They must've been out of mediums. Still only paid medium \o/ |
| 20:02.07 | Neffi | How do you run out of medium? |
| 20:02.16 | Neffi | Oh, frozen crust? |
| 20:02.22 | zenzelezz | no clue |
| 20:02.50 | zenzelezz | it's ten in the evening, they might just have sold alot today |
| 20:02.57 | zenzelezz | or maybe not restocked enough |
| 20:04.00 | Neffi | Or a mistake they realized later on |
| 20:04.27 | Neffi | I recently ordered a pie and they put on the wrong toppings, so they made a new one and gave me both for the original price |
| 20:04.33 | zenzelezz | well, the delivery girl was surprised, but decided not to check |
| 20:04.40 | zenzelezz | nice |
| 20:04.41 | Neffi | Unfortunately the messed up pie had onions on it -- gross |
| 20:04.57 | Fisker | Was she hot? |
| 20:05.02 | zenzelezz | yes |
| 20:06.31 | Ressy | all forgiven then? |
| 20:06.54 | zenzelezz | what's to forgive? I got a larger pizza for no extra charge |
| 20:08.04 | Ressy | lol.. k |
| 20:11.06 | Fisker | kk |
| 20:11.54 | g0urra | man I wish we had pizza delivery here |
| 20:12.24 | Fisker | What do you mean? |
| 20:12.42 | Fisker | I thought it was a made up profession like pool boy |
| 20:12.49 | Fisker | From porns |
| 20:12.50 | Primer | I used to deliver pizza. Once I was the delivery person for what was obviously a dare. A bunch of young scantily clad girls answered the door and the girl that exchanged the money for the pizza was mostly topless |
| 20:13.10 | Fisker | Nice |
| 20:13.25 | kd3 | mostly? |
| 20:13.26 | Primer | by mostly I mean she had a robe that was open and I could see her young nubile breasts |
| 20:13.32 | kd3 | heh |
| 20:14.00 | Fisker | Boobs are nice I'm told |
| 20:14.22 | znf | So, this may be a silly question - but why aren't 256 color terminals the norm these days on fresh linux installs? |
| 20:14.44 | Primer | because they go straight into X? |
| 20:14.51 | Lopeppeppy | Fisker, I do enjoy mine. |
| 20:15.08 | zenzelezz | Primer: not Slackware |
| 20:15.10 | znf | Primer, that's not really valid... |
| 20:15.19 | Fisker | Nice Lopeppeppy |
| 20:15.34 | Primer | zenzelezz: oh, please. Slackware doesn't count |
| 20:15.54 | znf | why are 8 colors terminal still default? Is there still a valid reason? |
| 20:16.26 | Fisker | I haven't tried them though so I would have no idea |
| 20:17.20 | znf | unicode + 256 colors should be the norm; I find it silly that I have to manually set these things up for every new box I install :-/ |
| 20:17.21 | Primer | znf: "Why would you ever need more than 8 colors?" |
| 20:17.42 | Primer | how much time do you actually spend on the actual console? |
| 20:17.56 | Primer | once I have a machine up, the first thing I do is go back to my desk and ssh to it |
| 20:17.57 | znf | 99.99% |
| 20:18.06 | Primer | then you're doing it wrongly |
| 20:18.36 | znf | My desktop is Windows. But I have at least 5 ssh connections at any time. Neither of those boxes I'm ssh-ing to has 256 colors by default. |
| 20:19.07 | Primer | so you're not technically on the "console" |
| 20:19.26 | znf | I never really said "console". I said terminal :) |
| 20:19.58 | Primer | pretty sure there's nothing you need to setup for things to be the way you want when you ssh into a machine |
| 20:19.59 | Lopeppeppy | I've lost my most qualified channel reference, although even he hasn't had any real personal experience. |
| 20:20.06 | Primer | other than your ssh client |
| 20:20.39 | znf | You have to change your $TERM for 256 colors. Actually there's a lot of ways to do it. |
| 20:21.07 | Primer | heh |
| 20:21.12 | Primer | you know you can set that before you connect, right? |
| 20:21.17 | zenzelezz | znf: in what way(s) do you benefit from 256 color? Don't programs have to support it to use it? |
| 20:21.26 | Fisker | Does he have a certificate to qualify him Lopeppeppy ? |
| 20:21.41 | znf | zenzelezz, most programs support it. VIM for instance does 256 colors. I'm pretty sure Emacs does it, too. |
| 20:21.53 | zenzelezz | interesting, may have to try it then |
| 20:22.14 | Fisker | Who uses text editors for that in the terminal? |
| 20:22.42 | Lopeppeppy | No Fisker, but I could print him one for Certified Huggery. |
| 20:22.48 | znf | Fisker, I do. |
| 20:23.00 | znf | zenzelezz, http://i.imgur.com/HIM7SKO.png same vimrc; left is 256 colors, right is 8 colors |
| 20:23.11 | Fisker | Why? |
| 20:23.18 | Fisker | Nice Lopeppeppy |
| 20:23.43 | znf | Primer, how? |
| 20:23.59 | Primer | you set the variables? |
| 20:24.05 | Fisker | Your day is almost over though |
| 20:24.13 | Fisker | Boo hoo |
| 20:24.33 | znf | Primer, well, I use KiTTY as my ssh client, doesn't help :) |
| 20:24.42 | Lopeppeppy | No it's not, Fisker. Sitting shiva most nights for the rest of the week - this day is just beginning as far as I'm concerned, the harder half is yet to come. |
| 20:24.57 | Fisker | :P |
| 20:25.18 | Fisker | I guess that's true |
| 20:26.30 | Fisker | Well g'day |
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| 21:23.14 | alestane | For anyone who attempted to play Command & Conquer: Red Alert on the iPad, can you tell me what the buttons at the bottom of the screen are for? |
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| 22:28.53 | Arrowmaster | znf: i can explain that one, because there are too many damn terminal definitions that everybody just sticks to xterm to be sane, some systems dont have the xterm-256color definition and some might even have it under a different name |
| 22:29.31 | znf | So what do they have instead of xterm-256color? |
| 22:30.23 | Arrowmaster | well it seems to also depend on the terminal emulator |
| 22:30.48 | Arrowmaster | it doesnt look like they do it anymore but gnome-terminal used to use 'gnome' instead of 'xterm' |
| 22:31.10 | Primer | I just have one thing to say about that: fuck gnome |
| 22:31.32 | Arrowmaster | well theres also a konsole-256color |
| 22:31.36 | znf | so, for example, as I use mostly ubuntu-server everywhere; why doesn't it come by default with xterm-256color ? |
| 22:31.52 | Arrowmaster | what terminal emulator are you using? |
| 22:32.04 | znf | let's say I'm logging on /dev/tty1 |
| 22:32.30 | znf | (and remotely via putty/kitty) |
| 22:32.34 | Arrowmaster | that uses 'linux', i dont know if theres a 'linux-256color' |
| 22:32.58 | znf | deargod :-/ |
| 22:33.09 | Arrowmaster | putty is telling the server its an xterm terminal, change the putty settings |
| 22:33.40 | znf | I have "allow terminal to use xterm 256 color mode" |
| 22:33.47 | znf | but when logging in, tput color still says 8 |
| 22:34.01 | Arrowmaster | yes there is literally more terminal emulator definitions than terminal emulators could think of |
| 22:34.13 | znf | adding "export TERM=xterm-256color" to .bashrc makes it "work" |
| 22:34.22 | Arrowmaster | what does echo $TERM say before you run tput? |
| 22:34.35 | Arrowmaster | this is clearly a putty problem |
| 22:34.40 | Primer | aye |
| 22:34.43 | Arrowmaster | on your end and not the server |
| 22:34.47 | Primer | yup |
| 22:35.07 | Arrowmaster | i remember there being a setting somewhere in putty to input the exact TERM you want sent to the server |
| 22:35.45 | Arrowmaster | and once you change it to xterm-256color you will find that one server that doesnt have it and youll be fucked |
| 22:36.26 | Arrowmaster | because guess what, putty cant ask the server what terms it has it can only tell the server what term it is |
| 22:36.42 | Arrowmaster | hell theres even a fucking 'putty' term |
| 22:36.55 | Neffi | all this sounds really atrocious |
| 22:37.33 | Arrowmaster | it is |
| 22:37.51 | znf | hmmm, you're right; making putty send xterm-256color works |
| 22:38.02 | Arrowmaster | which is why almost everybody sticks with just plain 'xterm' or 'rxvt' (if they are using rxvt) and says fuck it to 256 colors |
| 22:38.26 | znf | but I like 256 colors :-( |
| 22:38.39 | Neffi | Why do you even need so many colors in CLI? |
| 22:38.50 | znf | vim in lots of colors is pretty! |
| 22:39.00 | Arrowmaster | lets see ive got 'putty' 'putty-256color' 'putty-sco' and 'putty-vt100' terminfos available |
| 22:39.15 | znf | Arrowmaster, how do I get that list? |
| 22:39.23 | Arrowmaster | look in /usr/share/terminfo |
| 22:39.48 | znf | holy mother |
| 22:40.04 | Arrowmaster | and ive got 69 variants of xterm* |
| 22:40.35 | Neffi | I'm curious how terminals ended up such a clusterfuck |
| 22:40.45 | znf | good question... |
| 22:40.51 | znf | there's xterm-8bit |
| 22:41.01 | znf | there's xterm-88color... there's xterm+88color |
| 22:41.02 | znf | wth |
| 22:41.33 | znf | (and yes, they're different) |
| 22:41.35 | Arrowmaster | because terminals used to be physical devices that you couldnt just patch to make them work right with a certain $TERM set |
| 22:42.03 | znf | Someone should work on that... |
| 22:42.21 | Arrowmaster | historical reasons to not touch it |
| 22:42.32 | Arrowmaster | youll break stuff somehow |
| 22:42.39 | Unkle | And terminals - hardware ones - were in common use until the mid-90s. |
| 22:42.45 | Neffi | so just keep building on the cruft :| |
| 22:42.54 | Neffi | Unkle: hmm, that long? wow |
| 22:43.17 | Unkle | Neffi: Yeah, maybe even later. |
| 22:43.22 | Arrowmaster | nobody really adds new terminfos anymore except for term emulators which can be patched |
| 22:43.49 | znf | wonder what the difference between putty-256color and xterm-256color is... |
| 22:44.12 | Neffi | In the days of software terminals, one would think all this shit could be cast aside. But then everything would have to break |
| 22:44.13 | Arrowmaster | probably to work around bugs in putty |
| 22:44.24 | Dashkal | mutter something about still having to copy /usr/share/terminfo/r/rxvt-unicode-256color all over the place |
| 22:44.27 | Arrowmaster | putty still has a problem with line drawing characters when its in utf8 mode |
| 22:45.03 | znf | I think that only happens with the default configuration not having |
| 22:45.12 | znf | I think that only happens with the default configuration not having "remote character set" set to UTF-8 |
| 22:45.32 | Arrowmaster | you use ubuntu right? |
| 22:45.35 | znf | yeah |
| 22:45.38 | Arrowmaster | have aptitude installed? |
| 22:45.48 | znf | yeah |
| 22:46.11 | Arrowmaster | login over putty and run aptitude then do something like a search with '/' |
| 22:46.35 | Arrowmaster | see if the dialog box that pops up has the borders in z's and q's or whatever it is |
| 22:46.40 | Unkle | Another reason terminal code is still a clusterfuck - government legacy systems that are still in use. Like Air traffic control, military payroll, federal disbursements, practically everything running COBOL, etc.. |
| 22:47.18 | znf | Archarodim, http://i.imgur.com/Q8JrWHi.png |
| 22:47.21 | Arrowmaster | yup, you cant just change a terminfo definition thats been in use for 20+ years because you want to clean things up |
| 22:47.25 | Unkle | Some of those systems expect to talk to a terminal in a very specifi way. It hurts us. |
| 22:47.39 | znf | I mean Arrowmaster |
| 22:48.15 | Arrowmaster | znf: good its fixed then in KiTTY, it was still present last time i used PuTTY on windows which was v0.62 probably |
| 22:48.40 | znf | not sure if it's fixed or not, my default settings have the remote char set configured as "UTF-8" |
| 22:48.49 | znf | that fixes line-drawings |
| 22:49.24 | znf | http://i.imgur.com/iTluUws.png |
| 22:49.36 | Arrowmaster | aptitude doesnt draw those lines with utf8 chars though |
| 22:50.21 | znf | well, if I set it to iso-8859 I get http://i.imgur.com/47LKQOo.png |
| 22:50.23 | znf | :) |
| 22:50.48 | znf | and pstree shows the same wrong chars |
| 22:54.07 | Arrowmaster | it uses a specific part of the terminfo stuff that tells the terminal 'this is going to be a line drawing character' and that ctrl code uses either an x or a q as part of the code, putty didnt recognize it when set to utf8 mode for some reason and just displayed the x's and q's raw |
| 22:54.47 | Arrowmaster | i has somebody asking about it in the debian channel just the other week so i guess putty hasnt fixed it |
| 22:55.23 | Arrowmaster | znf: wait did you run aptitude from inside tmux? |
| 22:55.34 | znf | Arrowmaster, screen actually |
| 22:55.51 | Arrowmaster | ok, tmux apparently included their own fix for it |
| 22:55.57 | Arrowmaster | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8483798/tmux-borders-displayed-as-x-q-instead-of-lines |
| 22:56.14 | znf | but even if I detach, that still "fixes" it |
| 22:57.15 | Arrowmaster | but yeah tldr, terminfo shit is so complex nobody wants to touch it anymore |
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| 22:57.57 | znf | I mean, I had this issue years before I started using byobu/screen. Nowdays the first thing I do installing a clean OS and downloading putty/kitty is setting the translation to UTF-8 on the Default Settings |
| 22:58.16 | Arrowmaster | how is that not the default? |
| 22:58.56 | znf | no idea |
| 22:59.00 | Arrowmaster | all major distros switched to utf8 being the default at least 10 years ago i think |
| 22:59.14 | znf | It could even be default these days; I haven't done a fresh putty/kitty install in years :) |
| 22:59.57 | Neffi | who runs purl? |
| 23:01.00 | End | tim rikers |
| 23:01.23 | Neffi | Not sure who that is. Curious about getting her in #lua |
| 23:01.44 | znf | mumbles something about YAML |
| 23:02.04 | Arrowmaster | theres multiple bots all in the same network |
| 23:02.19 | Arrowmaster | purl: owner |
| 23:02.19 | purl | TimRiker is my owner |
| 23:02.30 | End | oh maybe its just tim riker |
| 23:02.32 | Arrowmaster | thats not helpful |
| 23:02.32 | End | I was close |
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| 23:03.06 | Neffi | Ah, I asked purl her info and she was busy updating packages |
| 23:03.19 | End | ~botsnack |
| 23:03.19 | purl | End: :) |
| 23:03.48 | Arrowmaster | try #infobot |
| 23:03.53 | Arrowmaster | i think thats the right channel |
| 23:04.06 | Neffi | thanks arrow. I'll look into it later on |
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| 23:42.09 | Sintacks | ... |
| 23:42.55 | Sintacks | so wow did taht stupid lock up thing... didn't know it was locked up cuz wasn't actively playing it. was in queeu for LFR. so i have no idea how long i've been locked up ... |
| 23:43.13 | Sintacks | i couldn't tell i was locked u pby sound, cuiz the lock up keeps playing the sound loops |
| 23:43.23 | Sintacks | background noise and shit |
| 23:50.58 | Semlar | have you considered not locking up |
