| 00:00.15 | smcn | at some point there's going to be a scandal involving water, what are they going to call it then? |
| 00:00.25 | TC-work | hydrogate |
| 00:00.35 | Shirik | I uh... |
| 00:00.36 | Shirik | http://gawker.com/5991841/montana-state-senate-votes-to-legalize-donating-roadkill-to-the-poor |
| 00:00.38 | smcn | touche' |
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| 00:03.04 | pompy1 | http://youtu.be/njos57IJf-0 |
| 00:05.36 | pompy1 | http://abcnews.go.com/US/drones-eyed-paparazzi-school-teaching-reporters-operate/story?id=18782432 |
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| 00:24.33 | pompy1 | pwned http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/03/apple-suspends-password-resets-after-critical-account-hijack-bug-is-found/ |
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| 01:49.45 | Adys | http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andrewgodwin/schema-migrations-for-django |
| 01:49.51 | Adys | Well this is pretty definitive |
| 01:51.33 | Adys | Rebasing. It will be possible to create new initial migrations as a project evolves, meaning there's no need to keep or execute the whole history every time. |
| 01:51.37 | Adys | Oh shit, this is good stuff |
| 01:52.04 | Adys | Improved autodetection. An improved field API and built-in support inside Django means that new and custom fields will be detected and usable more easily. |
| 01:52.06 | Adys | <3 |
| 01:52.16 | TC-work | That might be useful to me once I actually understand django |
| 01:52.19 | kd3 | holy crap. 5.3 ptr patch notes already? |
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| 01:55.09 | Adys | TC-work: it'll be *really* useful |
| 01:55.22 | Adys | schema migration is one of the big complaints about django |
| 01:56.19 | TC-work | Well I kickstarted a python for the web pdf that's supposed to teach django, so maybe I will use it sooner rather than later |
| 01:56.21 | Adys | kd3: heroic scenarions. ARE YOU KIDDING ME. |
| 01:56.46 | Adys | heroic instances were a disaster |
| 01:56.49 | Adys | I dont get this :/ |
| 01:59.55 | Adys | Unclaimed Black Market Containers are now available on the Black Market Auction House. What's inside? It's a mystery! When opened, the container has a chance to contain any item that can be available on the BMAH. |
| 02:00.02 | Adys | that's brilliant |
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| 02:10.05 | TC-work | I dunno Adys, by that wording it doesn't say that it always contains something from the bmah, just that it can. So you could get a piece of coal. |
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| 02:10.53 | Adys | you're correct |
| 02:11.10 | Adys | it's probably not quite what it means tho |
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| 02:11.45 | TC-work | I hope not, otherwise that's going to be a shitty crap-shoot. Pun intended >.< |
| 02:12.08 | TC-work | That's the second intentional pun I made today....I feel so dirty |
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| 04:24.34 | Cairenn | http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2LpsZn/www.wherecoolthingshappen.com/36-perfectly-timed-animal-shots/ |
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| 04:26.23 | kd3 | hah. the flying cat ball is great |
| 04:26.29 | Cairenn | yeah |
| 04:26.50 | Cairenn | levitation, cats can do it |
| 04:27.09 | Cairenn | whilst being giant fluff balls |
| 04:32.07 | Semlar | the buttered cat paradox.. |
| 05:03.41 | kd3 | bah. a meteor streaked across the east coast... but too far north for me to see |
| 05:05.03 | kd3 | http://www.amsmeteors.org/2013/03/update-for-march-22-2013-northeast-fireball/ |
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| 06:07.25 | Torhal | pompy1: What the fuck are you talking about? |
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| 07:27.26 | mikma | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6d1A2row6I |
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| 07:51.50 | Mr_Rabies | Fisker: u shrekin'? |
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| 08:57.22 | bluworkcow | haha people are seriously calling for an addon version of Hearthstone for Wow. |
| 09:01.34 | karl_w_w | people are retards |
| 09:02.00 | nevcairiel | retards are also people |
| 09:10.43 | mikma | but retards. |
| 09:14.37 | Semlar | this conversation can serve no purpose |
| 09:16.31 | Cairenn | I'd say it's probably irrelephant. |
| 09:21.18 | bluworkcow | irrelephant ? is that an irrelevant elephant ? |
| 09:21.44 | Cairenn | yep |
| 09:21.59 | Cairenn | You hadn't heard that expression before? |
| 09:22.19 | bluworkcow | first time :3 |
| 09:22.43 | Cairenn | I think you're trying to trick me. You're doing that on porpoise, I know it! |
| 09:23.59 | bluworkcow | lol |
| 09:24.08 | Cairenn | You're lion! |
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| 09:50.13 | Torhal | http://i.imgur.com/mKMLW.gif |
| 09:57.00 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 10:10.53 | bluworkcow | http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/8414821615?page=1#6 |
| 10:10.56 | bluworkcow | home tiem. |
| 10:12.27 | Fisker | wow |
| 10:12.40 | Fisker | Blizzard usually make some halfassed forums |
| 10:12.43 | Fisker | but that one is insane |
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| 11:41.12 | karl_w_w | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe-f4gokRBs pretty cool |
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| 11:44.20 | mikma | karl_w_w: aye |
| 12:06.31 | karl_w_w | "SECURITY WARNING: Please treat the URL above as you would your password and do not share it with anyone." wat? |
| 12:10.47 | mikma | yes, fill it with 5 stars, like your password |
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| 12:38.24 | Vladinator | oh boy formatted machine |
| 12:38.28 | Vladinator | (sooo clean and quick) |
| 12:39.39 | Maldivia | and now the moment: ohh shit, I forgot to back up X |
| 12:40.52 | Vladinator | nah this is a new drive :D |
| 12:41.20 | Vladinator | hmm what was the name of those pidgin plugin pack for IRC plugin stuffs? |
| 12:41.31 | Vladinator | someone mentioned it long ago and I downloaded it, but I forgot the name of that package now |
| 12:43.23 | Vladinator | Maldivia: :( |
| 12:51.54 | Maldivia | ? |
| 12:52.51 | Vladinator | do you know the name tof the pidgin irc plugin package? |
| 12:55.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Vladinator (~VIad@128.121.45.31.customer.cdi.no) |
| 12:55.49 | Vladinator | weird colors going on |
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| 12:58.25 | Maldivia | don't use pidgin, so how should I |
| 12:58.31 | Vladinator | darn it |
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| 13:01.19 | karl_w_w | implying people use pidging |
| 13:01.22 | karl_w_w | -g |
| 13:04.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Julith (~julith@i59F7D520.versanet.de) |
| 13:09.16 | Vladinator | lol |
| 13:09.23 | Vladinator | my notepad++ backups folder contains over 200k backups |
| 13:09.46 | Vladinator | I don't see why it should keep backup of files like 2 years old lol :P |
| 13:10.11 | karl_w_w | implying people use n++ |
| 13:11.28 | Vladinator | implying karl_w_w hates everything but himself |
| 13:11.42 | karl_w_w | im not a thing |
| 13:11.47 | karl_w_w | stop objectifying me |
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| 13:17.03 | Vladinator | you are a sexy object |
| 13:18.10 | Kalroth | http://www.sanger.dk/ when i thikn of you fisker |
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| 13:41.13 | bluspacecow | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IROtC6cAT4 |
| 13:41.18 | bluspacecow | everyone seen this yet ? |
| 13:46.29 | karl_w_w | no |
| 13:48.47 | Fisker | btw bluspacecow |
| 13:48.54 | bluspacecow | hmmmm |
| 13:48.56 | Fisker | Blizzard has access to the source code |
| 13:49.04 | bluspacecow | of the universe ? |
| 13:49.08 | bluspacecow | WOAH |
| 13:49.12 | Fisker | nope |
| 13:49.35 | Fisker | of the "hurr durr blizzard can't integrate hearthstone into wow because of lua addon enviroment which they could change at any point or simply refrain from using" |
| 13:50.45 | bluspacecow | i'm lost. |
| 13:50.48 | karl_w_w | wrong fisker |
| 13:50.54 | Fisker | you're not bluspacecow |
| 13:50.56 | Fisker | you're defeated |
| 13:50.57 | karl_w_w | ui is done in lua |
| 13:51.04 | karl_w_w | w-r-o-n-g |
| 13:51.11 | Fisker | nope karl_w_w |
| 13:51.19 | bluspacecow | i don't remember saying it was impossible to put it into wow as an addon |
| 13:51.26 | bluspacecow | just that it would be clunky. |
| 13:51.27 | karl_w_w | doubleyewrong |
| 13:51.34 | bluspacecow | barring |
| 13:51.37 | bluspacecow | as you say |
| 13:51.56 | bluspacecow | them changing the lua addon enviroment which require some form of client side patch maybe. |
| 13:52.19 | Fisker | the point is that the premise of your statement is incorrect |
| 13:52.24 | Fisker | because they don't have to use LUA |
| 13:52.37 | bluspacecow | okays |
| 13:52.39 | karl_w_w | yes they do |
| 13:52.40 | bluspacecow | Lua btw |
| 13:52.59 | Fisker | (LUA's Used as an Acronym) |
| 13:52.59 | Fisker | it would require some fort of client side patch either way |
| 13:53.12 | bluspacecow | possibly |
| 13:53.20 | Fisker | fort = form |
| 13:53.35 | karl_w_w | the game has to be visible to be played Fisker |
| 13:53.36 | bluspacecow | i want a fort of client side patches now |
| 13:53.42 | Fisker | sry bluspacecow |
| 13:53.44 | Fisker | can't have it |
| 13:53.52 | bluspacecow | i might go download every patch wow has , print tehem to DVDs and go build one |
| 13:53.57 | bluspacecow | ~whalenuke Fisker |
| 13:53.57 | purl | ACTION dons her radiation cloak and tinted glasses while a highly intelligent whale named Ray precipitates critical mass for uncontrolled nuclear fission around Fisker with his mind powers. |
| 13:54.12 | Vladinator | hey do you guys remember where I can get that pidgin irc plugin package? |
| 13:54.15 | Fisker | couldn't even nuke me if kim jong un |
| 13:54.35 | bluspacecow | KIM JONG UN |
| 13:55.37 | VIad | :( |
| 13:59.17 | VIad | I miss the feature where someone says my name and I can see an icon with a menu help me navigate to those places in the log :( |
| 14:01.43 | bluspacecow | http://thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=428 |
| 14:02.33 | Maldivia | VIad: considered using google? |
| 14:02.48 | bluspacecow | lawl dwarf fortress http://thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=429 |
| 14:02.58 | VIad | I use pidgin for both irc, msn and google talk :3 |
| 14:03.40 | VIad | aah I think Cairenn was the one that told me the name |
| 14:03.44 | Maldivia | ... as in google for it.. |
| 14:03.44 | VIad | she probably then knows :D |
| 14:03.53 | VIad | I have, mostly ubuntu stuff showing up |
| 14:04.03 | VIad | haven't found the same package and I've kept googling |
| 14:06.01 | VIad | might be the purple pack but hard time finding a binary for windows |
| 14:07.37 | VIad | btw after a format and when all files are put back in place, I love running the icacls command :D |
| 14:07.47 | VIad | with the reset switch |
| 14:08.43 | Maldivia | hmm, your google skills seems to be lacking if you can't find binaries for win for that pack :P |
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| 14:54.16 | Semlar | does anyone have experience with quest or archaeology blobs |
| 14:55.11 | Semlar | they don't seem to be anchored to anything and i was wondering if redrawing was really the only way to move them |
| 14:55.41 | nevcairiel | they are directly drawn onto a secure blob frame |
| 14:55.46 | nevcairiel | by the game |
| 14:56.13 | nevcairiel | first: main map or minimap? :p |
| 14:56.23 | Semlar | er |
| 14:56.31 | Semlar | main map |
| 14:56.43 | Semlar | i'm using a questpoiframe |
| 14:56.46 | nevcairiel | then we're at least talking about the same thing |
| 14:57.38 | Semlar | combat isn't going to prevent it from being redrawn is it |
| 14:57.59 | nevcairiel | combat will prevent you from touching the frame, not the game from drawing onto it |
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| 14:58.44 | Semlar | i can't move the frame in combat |
| 14:58.54 | nevcairiel | indeed |
| 14:59.06 | Semlar | why would they do that |
| 14:59.16 | nevcairiel | who knows |
| 14:59.37 | *** join/#wowuidev VIad (~Vlad@128.121.45.31.customer.cdi.no) |
| 14:59.40 | Semlar | well that's a problem |
| 14:59.48 | Semlar | i guess i'll have to just hide them |
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| 15:00.26 | nevcairiel | thats what i do, get rid of the secure frames during combat so the map remains functional |
| 15:01.01 | Semlar | i'm moving the frame based on your position so i can't have it being all secure-like |
| 15:01.51 | Semlar | i feel like if a frame isn't mouse-enabled it shouldn't matter if you can move it in combat |
| 15:02.14 | nevcairiel | if a frame is explicitly protected, then it does |
| 15:02.33 | Semlar | it does, but it shouldn't |
| 15:03.07 | Semlar | unless you can toggle interactability in which case i guess that could be a problem |
| 15:03.15 | nevcairiel | in the general case, i'm sure its done to avoid exploits somehow |
| 15:03.23 | nevcairiel | but no idea why the blob frames need to be secure |
| 15:04.47 | Semlar | i really can't think of a valid reason |
| 15:04.50 | Semlar | it's probably a mistake |
| 15:05.16 | nevcairiel | nah, they started out normal, and then one patch they were made secure, there probably was something nasty you could do with them |
| 15:05.33 | nevcairiel | but its not like they advertise such things |
| 15:05.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Archarodim (~Archarodi@37.160.41.70) |
| 15:05.40 | Semlar | well now i have to know |
| 15:06.57 | foxlit | choosing a graphics card is frustrating. Everything has like 10% of reviews going "ZOMG THIS IS THE WORST CARD SINCE LITERALLY HITLER" |
| 15:07.19 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:07.52 | Sharparam | foxlit: do you have a dog? |
| 15:08.01 | Semlar | not any more |
| 15:08.04 | Sharparam | :P |
| 15:09.25 | foxlit | Sharparam: no, but what if I one day decide to get one? |
| 15:09.33 | Sharparam | foxlit: then you switch cards |
| 15:12.26 | Semlar | nevcairiel: combat doesn't appear to actually prevent me from moving the blobs around on my map |
| 15:17.37 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@174-25-114-99.ptld.qwest.net) |
| 15:18.19 | Semlar | it's not blocking the action or anything |
| 15:19.43 | nevcairiel | maybe they changed it again recently, i havent checked since mop |
| 15:20.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Archarodim (~Archarodi@37.160.41.70) |
| 15:20.26 | Semlar | well, i'm basically just creating a questpoiframe and attaching it to another frame that gets moved around whenever the player moves |
| 15:20.46 | nevcairiel | maybe only the stock poi frames are protected |
| 15:21.03 | Semlar | it's possible |
| 15:21.31 | Semlar | the blobs don't update positions if you move the frame but it doesn't matter if you're in combat |
| 15:22.05 | Semlar | i'm calling DrawNone and redrawing the blobs pretty much onupdate |
| 15:24.22 | Semlar | it seems inefficient but there doesn't appear to be any other way to get them to update their position |
| 15:27.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Archarodim (~Archarodi@37.160.41.70) |
| 15:30.03 | *** join/#wowuidev [1]Archarodim (~Archarodi@37.160.41.70) |
| 15:30.40 | Semlar | if i move the minimap is there a good way to adjust where the watchframe and buff frames are |
| 15:30.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaylin (~Kaylin@c-98-203-233-187.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
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| 15:51.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Darkchaos2 (~darkchaos@i59F7970A.versanet.de) |
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| 15:57.01 | foxlit | sigh, the spellcasting events are ridiculous |
| 15:57.12 | foxlit | SPELLCAST_SUCCEEDED does not actually imply that you stopped casting. |
| 15:57.19 | foxlit | SPELLCAST_STOP won't tell you why you stopped. |
| 15:57.32 | TC-work | Why would succeeded state that? |
| 15:57.40 | TC-work | it's not what it sounds like |
| 15:58.31 | foxlit | what does it sound like? |
| 15:59.19 | TC-work | That it was a complete casting as opposed to an interrupted one. |
| 15:59.47 | foxlit | I don't blame you for misunderstanding |
| 16:00.12 | foxlit | My point is, SPELLCAST_SUCCEDED can fire, and you can *continue* casting the spell it. |
| 16:00.49 | TC-work | Consistently? On every type of spell? |
| 16:01.12 | *** join/#wowuidev wolftankk (~wolftankk@203.156.250.182) |
| 16:01.23 | foxlit | No, most spells behave properly. |
| 16:01.58 | foxlit | but the event is more of an intermediate "something went right!" thing rather than a final "okay, you're done casting, your spell went off" |
| 16:02.12 | TC-work | Does it fire on a miss? |
| 16:02.32 | foxlit | probably. |
| 16:02.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Archarodim (~Archarodi@37.160.41.70) |
| 16:02.40 | foxlit | think cast bars, not combat events. |
| 16:03.33 | TC-work | My point is that if it is consistently fired for x, then it sounds like it is working properly. You just need to find out in what situation. |
| 16:04.55 | *** join/#wowuidev [1]Archarodim (~Archarodi@37.160.41.70) |
| 16:05.58 | Semlar | spellcast_succeeded just lets you know that the cast was actually completed |
| 16:06.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 16:07.51 | Semlar | with channeled spells i think it fires twice |
| 16:09.36 | End_ | where does it fire for the channeled spells I wonder |
| 16:10.06 | Semlar | it should fire when you start casting it and when it finishes but i haven't used it in a while |
| 16:10.15 | End_ | I know some channeled spells are cast + channel so if it was once at the beginning and once at end I wouldn't be surprised |
| 16:10.16 | smcn | blizz wasn't kidding when they said 5.3 was coming sooner than people expect huh |
| 16:12.41 | Semlar | nothing wrong with coming sooner than people expect |
| 16:12.48 | Semlar | keeps them on their toes |
| 16:12.51 | smcn | nope i'm excited |
| 16:12.55 | TC-work | That's not what she said |
| 16:13.26 | smcn | can't wait for their explanation of pvp changes though, i like the item scaling but i also liked gemming resil |
| 16:13.55 | smcn | then again i'm only losing ~4% |
| 16:13.58 | Torhal | So 5.3 is The Spanish Inquisition? |
| 16:14.01 | End_ | it's not clear if anything is happening to resil gems |
| 16:14.13 | smcn | End_ oh yeah true |
| 16:14.15 | End_ | just gear itself was mentioned in the notes |
| 16:14.17 | smcn | didn't really think of that |
| 16:19.53 | TC-work | It seems there are some games that through the firewall here at work. Well, there goes any productivity I had. |
| 16:19.59 | TC-work | that go through* |
| 16:20.38 | karl_w_w | I used to recycle last year's memes, until I took an arrow to the knee |
| 16:31.12 | *** join/#wowuidev [1]Archarodim (~Archarodi@37.160.41.70) |
| 16:37.24 | Torhal | All your meme are belong to karl_w_w. |
| 16:41.49 | kd3 | hah; http://computer-animal-shelter.web.cern.ch/computer-animal-shelter/index.shtml |
| 16:42.49 | Semlar | http://wowprogramming.com/BlizzArt/Interface/MINIMAP/SuperTrackerArrow.png is this arrow ever used |
| 16:45.49 | Torhal | Semlar: Not that I can see. |
| 16:46.02 | Torhal | Neither is the old TradeSkill link icon, but it's still there. |
| 16:46.12 | Semlar | maybe they had it before they started using http://wowprogramming.com/BlizzArt/Interface/MINIMAP/MiniMap-QuestArrow.png |
| 16:46.28 | Torhal | Mayhap. |
| 16:48.12 | Semlar | i don't think you can replace its texture through minimap functions either |
| 16:48.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal|work (~torhal_wo@76.164.170.2) |
| 16:49.48 | Semlar | for some reason the quest arrow is getting clipped by the minimap mask at certain sizes |
| 16:50.22 | Semlar | i thought it was just because it was at the edge, but the poi arrows don't get clipped |
| 16:51.25 | Semlar | nevermind, all of the arrows around the edge get clipped |
| 16:52.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Neffi (~Neffi@pool-98-116-218-107.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:54.03 | Semlar | http://i.imgur.com/YquIrPn.jpg bleh |
| 16:54.27 | Torhal | That's…unfortunate. |
| 16:55.05 | Semlar | i'm considering hiding as many of them as i can and making my own |
| 16:55.51 | Torhal | If you're able, seems the way to go unless there's a way to stop the clipping. |
| 16:56.23 | Semlar | i ought to remake them anyway since the minimap is just in the center of my map frame and it would be better if the arrows were at the edges |
| 16:58.58 | Semlar | http://i.imgur.com/71Yxi4o.jpg |
| 16:59.04 | Semlar | that's what it looks like now |
| 17:00.34 | Semlar | as far as i can tell the only way to actually hide the quest arrow is to clear whatever quest is being tracked |
| 17:04.07 | karl_w_w | do all your own quest tracking functions :P |
| 17:04.43 | Semlar | yarr |
| 17:04.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@adsl-74-226-100-144.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:04.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 17:05.45 | Semlar | i could just make an arrow that always points to the nearest quest |
| 17:05.59 | karl_w_w | oh poop |
| 17:06.06 | karl_w_w | i forgot to do my dailies yesterday |
| 17:06.23 | karl_w_w | although I'm exalted so im not sure if there'd be a point anyway |
| 17:09.53 | zenzelezz | karl_w_w: for the glods |
| 17:10.05 | TC-work | For the money? |
| 17:10.08 | nevcairiel | cant have enough glods |
| 17:10.09 | zenzelezz | exactly |
| 17:10.22 | Fisker | old kd3 :( |
| 17:21.18 | smcn | shit, i accidentally read the comments on the 5.3 patch note preview |
| 17:23.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaylin (~Kaylin@c-98-203-233-187.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 17:33.46 | Fisker | sauce smcn |
| 17:34.10 | smcn | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/9135374/53_PTR_Patch_Notes-3_22_2013 |
| 17:37.30 | durcyn | man, rule #0 of the internet, Never Read The Comments |
| 17:41.26 | smcn | that's a twitter account |
| 17:41.53 | smcn | https://twitter.com/AvoidComments |
| 17:55.01 | Neffi | If any PvPers and Wowheaders are interested in some discussion on PvP balance, I'm looking for input on a writeup I just did here: http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=211604&p=3397091 |
| 17:55.17 | Neffi | Reply there. I'm going AFK. |
| 17:56.51 | TC-work | smcn: That's quite good. |
| 17:58.10 | Seerah | But sometimes comments are amusing :) (and in the case of Yahoo! News articles, more informative) Case in point for the former... "Why should people who spend time on PvE able to win people who spend time on PvP?" "@Nightdreams: I can win a person who spends time on PvP? One to keep for my very own? Oh, I will pamper him and name him Bartholomew!" |
| 18:49.45 | karl_w_w | quite often the comments on things will hold a lot more truth than the thing being commented on |
| 18:50.15 | karl_w_w | though that's almost never true on blizz postings |
| 18:50.33 | Neffi | It depends on the spirit of the community |
| 18:50.40 | Neffi | Look at Ars Technica |
| 18:51.03 | Neffi | Their editor's-picked comments are sometimes better than the article itself |
| 18:51.15 | karl_w_w | imagine if no1 ever read comments on blizz announcements, we'd be posting on wow forums with our real names! |
| 18:51.18 | Neffi | then again look at youtube |
| 18:52.29 | Neffi | I think the content can act as a filter. If the article is academic or intellectual, the people commenting will be the types apt to read that kind of stuff. |
| 18:53.27 | Neffi | In a game like WoW, you have players from every tier of intelligence of education, and the posts provide no natural filter for what the response should be. What you get is probably a pretty accurate representation of the intellect/education of the average community member. |
| 18:53.49 | Neffi | If a good comment is rare, then a good commenter is equally rare |
| 18:54.43 | Neffi | It makes me wonder, how do you promote high-quality discussion in an environment like a game forum? |
| 18:55.24 | nevcairiel | its hard |
| 18:55.31 | Neffi | I dont know if it's possible, and it makes me wonder if game *should* have official forums. As useful as they can be, seeing an officially-promoted forum filled with the kind of crap you see on the WoW forums is just disenchanting to the userbase as a whole. |
| 18:55.59 | Neffi | I honestly think I wouldnt have any official forum or public discussion if I managed an MMO like WoW. |
| 18:56.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@173-8-135-209-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 18:56.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 18:56.38 | A-KO | the largest problem is the 'me too' threads that pop up there |
| 18:56.42 | nevcairiel | I think its better to have an official place you can put some rules on that everyone knows instead of a whole lot of inofficial places that are just filled with even more evil |
| 18:56.43 | A-KO | OMG I HAVE LAG |
| 18:56.47 | A-KO | 800 pages later.... |
| 18:57.16 | Neffi | Official rules are obviously essential, but you can't realistically use those rules to filter what kind of discussion goes on |
| 18:58.06 | Neffi | That's verging on thought police. Nobody likes it philisophically. If you start banning players from posting because their posts are not high enough quality, you come off as snobs and the people being banned will be offended that you're essentially banning them for being stupid. |
| 18:58.37 | Neffi | I think letting the userbase see your company in that light is hugely harmful to your reputation, and eventually to your game |
| 18:58.46 | smcn | the lack of accountability that leads to assholishness through anonymity is a societal problem that transcends the internet |
| 18:59.00 | nevcairiel | you cant police the whole forum, but what they can (and also do) is police select threads that they want to keep on a certain topic and certain level |
| 18:59.13 | nevcairiel | like the class feedback threads during betas/ptrs |
| 18:59.36 | Neffi | Fansites have the benefit of not being officially endorsed, so they can ban on those merits without the userbase holding it against the game. Then they just come off as elitist, in which case it becomes the type of place you go for high-quality feedback instead of bullshit discussion. See: EJ (not sure if it's still like that). |
| 18:59.43 | nevcairiel | you dont need to ban people, just delete posts |
| 19:00.36 | Neffi | Sure, but I think that seeing the huge wealth of posts complaining about this and that breeds a bad culture for the game. You've got all these people so disheartened with issues of balance and design because they're so blown out of proportion on the forums. It leads to a lot of people not trusting developers. |
| 19:00.55 | Neffi | Look at how people disrespect Ghostcrawler (and remember how bad Kalgan was shat on when he used to post?) |
| 19:01.10 | nevcairiel | not having forums doesnt make that any better |
| 19:01.18 | Neffi | That's the type of evil the official forums breed that I think is ultimately more harmful to the community than the forums are useful |
| 19:01.41 | nevcairiel | in fact, it may be worse, because inofficial forums may never get a proper dialog between players and devs |
| 19:02.00 | nevcairiel | which does happen |
| 19:02.14 | Neffi | That's true. Then again, the devs can (and probably do) read forums like Arena Junkies. |
| 19:02.21 | nevcairiel | read yes |
| 19:02.26 | nevcairiel | but they wouldnt dare to write there |
| 19:02.30 | Neffi | They can also selectively open up discussion channels, like when they ask for feedback in a meta-thread. |
| 19:02.43 | Neffi | They can write as users. No need to identify themselves. |
| 19:02.49 | Neffi | They'll get more honest feedback |
| 19:03.03 | nevcairiel | not the same |
| 19:03.40 | Neffi | Probably not. But it would also mean a much better signal-to-noise ratio than sifting through the official forums. They can selectively choose the communities which are apt to breed useful, quality discussions. |
| 19:03.50 | nevcairiel | feedback is one thing, but as bad as you think the community thinks of the devs, they giving back feedback to the players with official name tags is worth a lot |
| 19:04.08 | Neffi | They may not get the same wealth of feedback, but they get far less noise, so they can effectively participate more |
| 19:04.29 | nevcairiel | If they just decided without even a hint of a place to discuss this officially, it would be much much worse |
| 19:04.50 | nevcairiel | (even if its based on feedback collected "undercover") |
| 19:05.05 | Neffi | That's true. Which is why I like that they use the blog and Twitter. Although it'd be nice if there was something like Twitter, sort of a "bulletin board" where we can see quick excerpts/ideas right on the sight, with the same limitations as Twitter. |
| 19:05.39 | nevcairiel | the stupid users will complain no matter what and in whatever channel they can find |
| 19:06.17 | Neffi | I'd imagine the bulletin board as a one-way street, and blog comments as the feedback. |
| 19:06.24 | nevcairiel | Blizzard wouldn't dare to open discussions on a board thats known to be "elitist", because that would give them the image back of only catering to the hardcore, which they have been trying to shake forever |
| 19:06.46 | Neffi | Twitter remarks are never in-depth. They're a taste, so they're not going to spawn high quality discussion and analysis. Blog posts are lengthy, so they can. |
| 19:06.52 | A-KO | They've also been losing players |
| 19:06.54 | A-KO | imagine that |
| 19:06.55 | A-KO | lol |
| 19:06.55 | nevcairiel | so that leaves "undercover" discussions, which for the players doesn't get them answers from the devs, or other inofficial forums with higher noise |
| 19:07.06 | TC-work | http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18ie74w3itf7bjpg/original.jpg |
| 19:07.10 | Neffi | This is true |
| 19:08.33 | Neffi | If it were me, I might consider doing regular AMA for the brunt of two-way communication |
| 19:09.20 | Neffi | Leave a question-based form open, and questions can be voted on. Every 1-2 weeks, take the best and clear the rest. |
| 19:09.23 | nevcairiel | I don't think the state of the official forums directly reflects on the game, at least not when looked at by someone who knows how internet works. But the absence of any official place for discussion might reflect back, not trying to grow an actual community, etc |
| 19:09.46 | Kaylin | they already have 'likes' and 'dislikes' I imagine they track that internally |
| 19:09.48 | nevcairiel | You just need a good nosie filter |
| 19:09.53 | nevcairiel | noise* |
| 19:09.57 | Neffi | I suppose that's right |
| 19:10.30 | Neffi | I'm still wondering if there's some way to improve the community outlook. Trolling and bad comments breed too easily |
| 19:10.32 | smcn | TC-work: that 82% male shepard makes me sad, jennifer hale is so much better than mark meer |
| 19:11.09 | TC-work | I played a female shepard, but then If i am going to be looking at an ass for 12 hours, I want to make it one i am going to enjoy |
| 19:11.35 | nevcairiel | Stronger moderation on trolls and bad-behaviour might help a little to discourage such behaviour, but you can never get rid of trolls on the internet |
| 19:12.44 | nevcairiel | but some people simply ask the dumbest questions.... :D |
| 19:13.41 | *** join/#wowuidev tharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 19:14.11 | Neffi | Well, you're right. |
| 19:14.31 | Neffi | I'll settle my opinion on the official forums as a necessary evil |
| 19:14.55 | Neffi | When the day comes that I do manage an online game, I'll have a lot more of this to consider though. |
| 19:15.17 | nevcairiel | It might help if you were tied to your account name on the forums and can't use a fresh level 1 char to troll everyone without anyone ever having a remote chance of knowing who you are |
| 19:15.35 | Neffi | I agree |
| 19:15.52 | Neffi | I've got cleaning to do. |
| 19:16.10 | Neffi | Also, thanks for LAV. =) |
| 19:16.23 | nevcairiel | i also got cleaning to do, but i'm too lazy |
| 19:16.42 | nevcairiel | that reminds me, i also have development to do |
| 19:16.52 | Neffi | lol |
| 19:17.02 | foxlit | nevcairiel: easy to test; see if you like the SC2 forums any better |
| 19:17.15 | foxlit | those identities should be a bit more persistent. |
| 19:17.58 | nevcairiel | its always fun on the wow forums when a blue calls out someone for agreeing with himself or something like that on different chars :p |
| 19:18.55 | Neffi | That reminds me. I'd get rid of the Armory. |
| 19:19.06 | nevcairiel | i like the armory |
| 19:19.14 | Neffi | There's nothing constructive about "post on your main noob"; "you're only 1700 rated noob"; etc |
| 19:19.24 | nevcairiel | if all else fails, still let me look at my own chars |
| 19:19.35 | Neffi | Oh yes, but connecting it to the forums isn't all that helpful |
| 19:19.51 | Neffi | Plus, I think a user should be able to choose whether or not to share their in-game name/details |
| 19:20.39 | Neffi | Content should be considered on its own merit. Your progression in the game shouldn't lend any prestige (or take any away) from your argument. |
| 19:21.17 | foxlit | that's not really a good idea. |
| 19:21.32 | Neffi | why? |
| 19:22.46 | foxlit | noise, mostly. |
| 19:24.34 | Neffi | http://www.dorkly.com/comic/51056/gamers-then-now <- lol |
| 19:24.38 | Neffi | now it's time to clean |
| 19:25.03 | foxlit | It's a difficult balance, but I'd prefer to read posts by people who've actually experienced what they're talking about. |
| 19:25.20 | Semlar | welp, i just thought of a way to get the camera angle again |
| 19:26.20 | Semlar | assuming you're in a group and have nameplates enabled |
| 19:26.33 | Torhal | And now Semlar gets more API locked down. |
| 19:26.38 | Semlar | >_> |
| 19:26.53 | foxlit | Pitchforks! |
| 19:26.55 | Semlar | sneaks off to revive AVR |
| 19:28.32 | Fisker | Semlar |
| 19:28.42 | Fisker | if nameplates get protected |
| 19:28.45 | Fisker | you're a dead man :( |
| 19:28.46 | Semlar | oh alright |
| 19:28.50 | Semlar | i won't do anything |
| 19:29.09 | Semlar | i'm far too lazy to rewrite avr anyway |
| 19:35.57 | foxlit | you know what would be more useful? |
| 19:36.16 | foxlit | Someone cloning the entirety of InterfaceOptionsFrame and injecting that into every addon. |
| 19:36.36 | Semlar | what, you don't like tainting the interface by using blizzard's api for it? |
| 19:37.44 | foxlit | Hah. Yes, well, it's annoying. |
| 19:38.06 | Semlar | didn't there used to be a library called waterfall or something before they added that to the interface |
| 19:38.44 | foxlit | (more pitchforks!) |
| 19:39.28 | Iriel | Semlar: I haven't tried it lately, but nameplates used to be too decoupled from the things they represent to make tracking effective |
| 19:39.56 | Semlar | you mean because they spread out? |
| 19:40.19 | Semlar | i think they stay pretty much on the unit if you set them to overlap |
| 19:41.03 | TC-work | Semlar: Yes there was |
| 19:42.55 | Semlar | would completely overwriting the interface options functions cause any problems |
| 19:42.57 | Iriel | Semlar: It'll be interesting if you can make it work, but I suspect it would be about as reliable as manually calibrating against the world.. |
| 19:43.25 | Semlar | i haven't written a proof of concept but i'm pretty sure it could work |
| 19:43.28 | Iriel | Semlar: Though nameplates could give you a degree of "correction" once you had a fix - not sure if it'd be enough tho |
| 19:44.22 | Semlar | the main issue is you'd actually need to be in range of players and have them on your screen |
| 19:44.29 | *** join/#wowuidev MoonWitch (~Adium@d8D872857.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:45.01 | Iriel | And not have them at the edge where there's an unmeasurable amount of clipping |
| 19:56.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Xuerian1 (~Xuerian@23-25-122-114-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 19:57.59 | *** join/#wowuidev MoonWitch (~Adium@d8D872857.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:24.44 | Xuerian | Going to vote foxlit best Semlar product option 3/23/13 |
| 20:26.05 | Fisker | hey Stanzilla |
| 20:26.08 | Fisker | can't you be british? |
| 20:26.13 | Fisker | i need to buy games on steam for cheap |
| 20:31.44 | Sharparam | Fisker: wouldn't US be better then? |
| 20:32.20 | Sharparam | i thought US was cheapest, then UK followed by Europe having the most expensive prices |
| 20:32.52 | foxlit | Xuerian: did that even make sense? :) |
| 20:33.25 | Xuerian | foxlit: Well, I meant project, but it still makes a little sense. If you tilt your head to the left. |
| 20:34.39 | Semlar | temporarily halts foxlit production |
| 20:35.15 | foxlit | :/ |
| 20:36.00 | Xuerian | grumbles. |
| 20:36.25 | Xuerian | I meant foxlit's IOF surrogate option, not foxlit itself. =| |
| 20:36.36 | Fisker | UK is cheaper Sharparam |
| 20:36.43 | Sharparam | :O |
| 20:36.48 | Fisker | not to mention there may be sales tax on the US prices |
| 20:37.01 | Sharparam | i thought those were included on the price |
| 20:37.07 | Fisker | no |
| 20:37.15 | Sharparam | scumbag US |
| 20:37.15 | Fisker | us sales tax is retarded |
| 20:37.26 | Xuerian | Going to get even better :3 |
| 20:48.50 | TC-work | Only the state in which valve is HQ'd pays tax |
| 20:48.53 | TC-work | iirc |
| 20:49.36 | mikma | http://imgur.com/gallery/ftkWF |
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| 21:24.30 | Neffi | The most beautiful bromance ever |
| 21:25.14 | bleeter | tackle hugs Neffi |
| 21:25.45 | Neffi | I'm not yelling "eagle". |
| 21:29.24 | Neffi | heh http://imgur.com/gallery/GwMnQpi |
| 21:32.23 | bleeter | heh |
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| 22:04.37 | Neffi | it's god-damn beautiful http://goo.gl/w0f2k |
| 22:05.30 | Neffi | Closer than I thought too. Granted 2 Titans is not cheap hardware, but it puts it within the realm of this generation nonetheless. Perhaps only a few generations until CGI-quality games are doable? |
| 22:06.23 | TC-work | If it does happen, It will happen in the VFX industry first |
| 22:07.15 | foxlit | what's "it"? |
| 22:07.28 | TC-work | did you read the link? |
| 22:07.38 | foxlit | I presumed it was a video. |
| 22:08.27 | foxlit | so not that far off. The point is, it's talking about real-time rendering. |
| 22:08.38 | TC-work | Well, we have that now |
| 22:08.43 | TC-work | just not at vfx level |
| 22:08.46 | Neffi | foxlit: Real-time pathtraced rendering. "13.8 billion triangles in total", photorealistic, color-bleeding and all. Nearly noise free. |
| 22:09.08 | foxlit | TC-work: is there any reason VFX would need real-time rendering? |
| 22:09.17 | TC-work | Hell yes |
| 22:09.22 | bleeter | AR |
| 22:09.51 | bleeter | personally, I'm looking forward to google glasses and vfx foo making everyone appear nude |
| 22:09.52 | Neffi | Well, OTOY, who does Brigade Renderer used here, also does Octane Renderer which is their application for pre-rendered VFX shit. Brigade is the realtime edition. |
| 22:10.02 | Neffi | The scene at the very end of the video is Octane Renderer |
| 22:10.04 | Neffi | the interior one |
| 22:10.24 | TC-work | As it stands now, things get work on by the artist --> pushed to the render farm --> rendered in time for the nightly meeting to go over the image. Rinse. Repeat. |
| 22:10.42 | Neffi | It's fucking fantastic though. Both of them. Look through that blog's previews. |
| 22:10.42 | TC-work | worked* |
| 22:11.49 | Neffi | "Render farm" here is 2 top-end video cards. It converges in a quarter second. Granted it's only a room. But the days of needing a farm to render are just about done. |
| 22:12.51 | TC-work | We have ~6500 Render machines |
| 22:12.58 | Neffi | The final nail in the coffin for life-like gaming is getting physics engines quick enough to match what this can do. |
| 22:13.21 | Neffi | nail in the coffin? fuck that wasn't right |
| 22:13.27 | Neffi | I'm tired. You get the idea. |
| 22:13.31 | TC-work | most machines can do 3 renders at once since we work on 24gb machines and the render boxes are 96gb machines |
| 22:13.49 | Neffi | CPU or GPU? |
| 22:14.00 | TC-work | that was ram |
| 22:14.14 | Neffi | No, I mean do you use CPU or GPU to render? |
| 22:14.31 | TC-work | CPU. dual quad/hexa core xeons |
| 22:14.54 | Neffi | I'm guessing because you can't afford potential errors that GPUs might introduce? |
| 22:14.59 | TC-work | All of the software is optimized for cpu's not gpu's |
| 22:15.20 | TC-work | software being the render software, not the artist software |
| 22:15.26 | Neffi | I mean, aside from errors what downside would a GPU have? |
| 22:15.32 | Neffi | (For rendering, yes) |
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| 22:16.01 | TC-work | I'm saying we use whatever the render software recommends. |
| 22:16.21 | Xuerian | New rendering backend, to be obvious.. And then support from the vendor equivalent to the existing system |
| 22:16.23 | Neffi | Ah I see |
| 22:17.02 | TC-work | Oh like that. Lots and lots of money. Which we don't have |
| 22:17.42 | bleeter | if you're not using the GPUs... mine some bitcoin... ;) |
| 22:17.52 | TC-work | They don't have gpu's |
| 22:18.06 | bleeter | oh |
| 22:18.10 | Xuerian | Also questionable if the power investment is worth it at this point |
| 22:18.17 | bleeter | yar |
| 22:18.37 | Xuerian | Unless you have enough machines to soak the misses, it's not comparable to asic/fpga specialty chips. or so the internet says |
| 22:18.40 | Neffi | Xuerian: For which? I assume a CPU would consume a lot more. |
| 22:18.48 | Xuerian | For bitcoin mining |
| 22:18.52 | Neffi | oh, that |
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| 23:59.12 | Neffi | What would cause a GTX 580 3GB to hit 100% GPU usage and dip to ~20 FPS in 25 mans? (Ultra, 1080p, second monitor with desktop showing.) http://goo.gl/susfI |
| 23:59.32 | Neffi | His machine is pretty damn high-end. I don't see this being reasonable at all. |
| 23:59.54 | nevcairiel | in some parts of the game no current system can sustain full fps |
| 23:59.58 | nevcairiel | on max settings anyway |
