| 00:00.03 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: on my phone google maps has an 'avoid highways' option |
| 00:00.18 | Dagmar | Yeah I saw the takedown thing |
| 00:00.24 | Dagmar | It's not really significant of much |
| 00:01.10 | Dagmar | Like. "Oh look. People are completely stupid about piracy online." |
| 00:03.15 | xyphoid | when we were driving in LA for the first time my GPS app got confused between the freeway and the road underneath the freeway |
| 00:03.17 | Unkle | Dagmar you could have omitted "about piracy online." |
| 00:03.31 | Dagmar | WRT to Google what I'd like to know is exactly how long do I need to soak my tablet in a glass of water before Google Now actually starts doing shit |
| 00:03.56 | Dagmar | In theory it's supposed to proactively gimme traffic reports |
| 00:04.04 | Dagmar | It knows my damn work schedule |
| 00:04.16 | Dagmar | I get the feeling someone was just being a little excitable when they made that claim |
| 00:07.12 | Vladinator | I am confused :( |
| 00:07.27 | Dagmar | There's |
| 00:07.39 | Dagmar | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:08.08 | Dagmar | It does locative searches more or less when the mood strikes it, shows you them. Shows you weather, etc. |
| 00:08.17 | Dagmar | Basically the idea is "stuff happening to you now" |
| 00:08.35 | Dagmar | One of the things they mentioned was that it would tell you about traffic issues for your commute |
| 00:08.44 | Dagmar | I'm guessing I have to explicitly search for that a few times for it to catch on |
| 00:09.17 | Vladinator | I see, I got galaxy s2 so I don't think I got the update yet, hehe. |
| 00:09.23 | Vladinator | btw the new http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/wowuidev.html.gzare in |
| 00:09.30 | Vladinator | http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/wowuidev.html.gz are in* |
| 00:10.01 | mckenziemc | showing the same as before for me |
| 00:10.12 | Vladinator | ctrl+f5 |
| 00:13.28 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: from the few people who're on JB that I know, it started doing that automatically |
| 00:13.49 | Gnarfoz | (after about one week) |
| 00:14.06 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: do you have google search history disabled, that seems to kill most the google now functionality |
| 00:14.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Borgleader (~borgleade@modemcable169.141-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 00:15.04 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Nope |
| 00:15.16 | Arrowmaster | if i bring up google now and click 'show more cards' it shows '11 minutes to work' for me for the last llocation i only worked at which was only one day |
| 00:15.21 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: There's a degree to which I use my tablet as a great big birdie |
| 00:15.41 | Dagmar | If someone wants to snoop, they'll see tons of crap from my tablet, all of which showing I'm not up to anything |
| 00:20.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaylin (~Kaylin@c-98-203-233-187.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 00:21.00 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@68.36.135.0) |
| 00:23.57 | Vladinator | http://qdb.us/152432 |
| 00:28.02 | Arrowmaster | Vladinator: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info8583-HighRoller.html |
| 00:29.28 | Vladinator | I remember that |
| 00:30.39 | Vladinator | didn't they break StartMovie widget api to use set indexes? :( |
| 00:32.04 | Vladinator | nvm seems to still work, unless wowprogramming is outdated :) |
| 00:32.43 | Adys | haha |
| 00:32.46 | Adys | HighRoller |
| 00:33.00 | Adys | Arrowmaster: you just aged me a few years by just linking an url |
| 00:33.02 | Adys | didnt even click |
| 00:33.35 | Adys | The requested URL /images/smilies/devil.gif was not found on this server. |
| 00:33.44 | Adys | WAY TO GO DOLBY. |
| 00:37.36 | dolby | look at the url adys, its a 3rd party smilie |
| 00:37.43 | dolby | Cairenn's smilie |
| 00:37.56 | dolby | not my fault =p |
| 00:38.04 | Cairenn | ? |
| 00:38.30 | dolby | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info8583-HighRoller.html you have a devil smilie here thats a broken image |
| 00:38.36 | Cairenn | so I see |
| 00:38.49 | dolby | adys trying to blame me |
| 00:41.26 | Unkle | They see me rollin' they be hatin'. |
| 00:42.35 | alestane | rolls a natural 20. |
| 00:43.09 | Kaylin | crits alestane with a panda. |
| 00:50.20 | Vladinator | Was reading in the chat logs of the channel from 2008, fun stuff. |
| 00:50.48 | Vladinator | Anyway it's soon 3 in the morning, going to bed. :) |
| 01:01.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Kodiack (~Colton@96-42-240-206.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 01:32.32 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@68.36.135.0) |
| 01:35.06 | kd3 | bleh, there's gotta be some way to ratelimit rsyslogd so it's not pegging a core when the kernel's oopsing |
| 01:56.29 | Torhal | Unkle: http://www.teefury.com/archive/1672/They_Hatin_/ |
| 01:58.04 | kd3 | and indeed there is, huzzah |
| 02:00.40 | Amarande | hrm. |
| 02:00.54 | Amarande | apparently I will need about 126 volatile air. this could get rather expensive, will need to find a good place to farm it. :S |
| 02:01.08 | Amarande | don't suppose any of you remember offhand a place in cata where air elementals are plentiful? |
| 02:01.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (~Yssaril@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:03.27 | mckenziemc | http://www.google.com/search?q=where+to+farm+volatile+air&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a |
| 02:04.53 | Amarande | ah, right, electrostatic condenser. also, uldum. :) |
| 02:09.15 | Amarande | ... also, I apparently should not attempt to do math late at night, I need 84 volatile air, not 126 :) |
| 02:26.59 | Amarande | so, what's the chance that 5.0.4 drops this week? |
| 02:27.05 | kd3 | 0 |
| 02:27.17 | mckenziemc | ^ |
| 02:27.33 | Amarande | (and yes, a question of fairly serious nature, since if it is, then I don't want to equip this blue BoE wand when I hit 83, I'll want to let it go for the 500g or so that it's worth) |
| 02:28.18 | mckenziemc | was* worth |
| 02:33.15 | Amarande | yeah, I'm not sure if wands will be worth anything at all once 5.0.4 hits, at least pre-Pandaria ones |
| 02:33.45 | Amarande | the thing being that, as I've noted, as ranged weapons I get the feeling they won't be enchantable at all (and certainly not usefully), which will mean that only Pandarian enchants may be of use on them ... but those will probably require ilvl 450+ :P |
| 02:34.13 | kd3 | ranged weapons are getting upconverted into main-hand weapons as far as stats are concerned |
| 02:35.41 | Amarande | ah |
| 02:35.59 | Amarande | you mean you can actually put +25 agi on an heirloom bow, then? :) |
| 02:36.40 | Amarande | leveling hunters will no doubt be full of \o/ at that, seeing as right now I don't think you can even enchant an heirloom bow at all (scopes all have min level requirements that scotch it) |
| 02:38.01 | Amarande | also, wtg guild perk, with the rep bonus perk you go straight to friendly with netherwing as soon as you finish the initial chain |
| 02:38.56 | Amarande | wonder how many days of dailies that perk is going to save me overall :) |
| 02:40.40 | *** join/#wowuidev wolftankk (~wolftankk@206.253.165.217) |
| 02:44.57 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@68.36.135.0) |
| 02:51.46 | xyphoid | guild perks are pretty broken, it sucks that you should join one of the open-invite zerg level 25 guilds immediately instead of making a guild with your friends now |
| 02:52.12 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (~textual@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 02:52.13 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 02:54.43 | Amarande | heh the guild I'm in is still about 20% of the way from 22 to 23 |
| 02:54.54 | Amarande | but hey, we have the rep perk and the xp ones :) |
| 02:55.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Liath (~Liath@fctnnbsc30w-142166230253.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.nb.bellaliant.net) |
| 02:55.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Liath (~Liath@unaffiliated/liath) |
| 02:55.23 | Amarande | xyphoid: do you think the dailies emphasis in MoP reps is going to greatly slow the number of people forming new guilds with friends, btw? |
| 02:55.31 | Amarande | more than cata/LK's rep paradigm? |
| 02:56.02 | Amarande | ... wow, I'm really on the ball tonight |
| 02:56.22 | mckenziemc | ... |
| 02:56.24 | Amarande | I forgot my spectrecles and gryphon rider flare (SMV) in the bank, went back to Shattrath to get them, flew back out to SMV, and realised I'd forgotten them in the bank again :| |
| 02:57.05 | Thunder_Child | ... |
| 02:57.24 | Amarande | I need Jeeves. Badly. Heh. |
| 02:57.55 | Mr_Rabies | hrm |
| 02:58.04 | Mr_Rabies | anyone know if Insane in the Membrane is account-wide now? |
| 02:58.07 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (~|Jelly|@c-98-234-60-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:58.18 | *** join/#wowuidev wolftankk (~wolftankk@206.253.165.217) |
| 02:58.36 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: I think all achievements are in MoP |
| 02:58.39 | Amarande | not that it is going to help you, though :) |
| 02:58.52 | Mr_Rabies | not all are, are they? |
| 02:58.58 | Amarande | I'm pretty sure all are |
| 02:59.05 | Unkle | Not all. |
| 02:59.08 | Mr_Rabies | well, i'm almost there, i just don't want to really sully my rep with steamwheedle |
| 02:59.11 | Amarande | it's mounts where there's a few exceptions (and only a few, primarily that you can't have horde mounts on alliance and vice versa) |
| 02:59.27 | Mr_Rabies | if i can get bloodsail admiral on an alt, i might do that instead |
| 02:59.37 | Mr_Rabies | though i am only almost revered with steamwheedle |
| 02:59.51 | Amarande | thing is, the bloodsail admiral achievement isn't the direct criterion for insane |
| 02:59.53 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (~|Jelly|@c-98-234-60-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:00.14 | Amarande | the only time you can spread an achievement's criteria among alts is when the criteria are themselves bona fide achievements |
| 03:00.25 | Amarande | e.g., loremaster you can spread the zones out among alts, but seeker you have to do all 3000 quests on one toon |
| 03:00.26 | Mr_Rabies | ah |
| 03:00.43 | Mr_Rabies | so i wonder if i should go exalted with steamwheedle first |
| 03:00.44 | Amarande | because seeker is just a progress bar (which has to be filled by a single character), but all the criteria for loremaster are other achievements |
| 03:00.50 | Mr_Rabies | probably not |
| 03:00.51 | Mr_Rabies | :< |
| 03:01.05 | Mr_Rabies | i've just gradually build up rep with them doing quests in vanilla |
| 03:01.27 | Amarande | particularly nice though is that you'll only have to ever win a fishing tournament once to get salty everywhere :) |
| 03:02.05 | Amarande | best case is to hope that Northrend isn't included in the zone sharing programme, then roll on alt on some moribund server like Ysondre or Azshara and go win the Kalu'ak tourney since chances are no one will be there :P |
| 03:02.34 | Mr_Rabies | they really need to overhaul Salty |
| 03:02.42 | Amarande | Kind of like the best time to do the Gurubashi Arena achievements is during a pre-expansion world event, since people will generally be busy with that :) |
| 03:02.43 | Mr_Rabies | it's probably the hardest achievement in the game right now |
| 03:03.12 | Mr_Rabies | if you work weekends, you cannot get the achievement, straight up |
| 03:03.27 | Amarande | also, I think it's the one and only title that is strictly limited in number of players who can get it |
| 03:03.31 | Mr_Rabies | they need to remove the tournament stuff from Salty |
| 03:03.36 | Amarande | a maximum of 104 people per server, per year |
| 03:03.44 | xyphoid | is there a problem with that though |
| 03:03.45 | Mr_Rabies | yeah |
| 03:03.57 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, it's entirely too exclusionary |
| 03:03.57 | xyphoid | i mean hard achievements existing |
| 03:04.02 | Mr_Rabies | it's not hard |
| 03:04.04 | Mr_Rabies | well |
| 03:04.07 | Mr_Rabies | it's not that it's hard |
| 03:04.13 | Mr_Rabies | it's that it's impossible for some people to get |
| 03:04.14 | Amarande | and I suspect it's going to be less in MoP because STV will likely get shared a lot, resulting in the 52 STV derby wins being across a whole data centre rather than per server |
| 03:04.14 | Mr_Rabies | entirely |
| 03:04.31 | Gnarfoz | pff impossible. don't you have holidays? :p |
| 03:04.32 | Mr_Rabies | no matter how hard you work, you can't get it if you aren't there on a saturday |
| 03:04.41 | Amarande | xyphoid: yeah, no other achievement is that easy for people to not be able to get at all based on schedule |
| 03:04.43 | Gnarfoz | or sunday |
| 03:04.59 | xyphoid | do you never have any time off in 4 years or whatever |
| 03:05.13 | Mr_Rabies | some people don't on saturday |
| 03:05.21 | Gnarfoz | there's also sunday |
| 03:05.24 | Mr_Rabies | some people may only work weekends, etc |
| 03:05.25 | Amarande | World event achievements at least give you several days to do them (although Brewmaster is a total pain in the ass unless you are either really good at keg running or you can be on almost every day due to how gods-cursed many tokens things cost) |
| 03:05.30 | Mr_Rabies | sunday's a different contest entirely |
| 03:05.32 | Amarande | and aren't tied to a specific day of the week |
| 03:05.33 | Mr_Rabies | but yeah |
| 03:05.39 | Gnarfoz | both work for the achievement you're talking about. |
| 03:05.48 | Mr_Rabies | do they? |
| 03:05.52 | Gnarfoz | http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=306 |
| 03:06.03 | Mr_Rabies | i've really stopped even bothering with salty because it's kind of a waste of time to even try for it |
| 03:06.18 | Gnarfoz | ...for you |
| 03:06.43 | Mr_Rabies | i went in there for about 10-15 weeks straight and never even saw a shark |
| 03:06.44 | Mr_Rabies | so |
| 03:06.47 | Mr_Rabies | eff it |
| 03:06.54 | Amarande | however, it is notable that every single achievement except for Salty (and to a degree, holiday achievements) is based solely upon the amount of effort that you are willing to put in |
| 03:07.10 | Gnarfoz | took me 2 years, you have no stamina |
| 03:07.12 | Amarande | and in some cases, good fortune (e.g., rare mount achievements) |
| 03:07.12 | Gnarfoz | :P |
| 03:07.30 | xyphoid | take a sick day |
| 03:07.33 | Mr_Rabies | Gnarfoz: anything that takes that kind of dedication really shouldn't be in the game |
| 03:07.41 | Gnarfoz | boo hoo |
| 03:07.47 | xyphoid | i dunno, i just think that it's nice to have really really annoying achievements |
| 03:07.52 | Mr_Rabies | xyphoid: sick days are kinda going the way of the dodo |
| 03:07.55 | Mr_Rabies | it's okay for it to be annoying |
| 03:08.01 | Mr_Rabies | they could replace it with something else |
| 03:08.05 | Amarande | For instance, the specific challenges for the Frostbrood Vanquishers may be much, much more difficult in terms of skill required than Salty |
| 03:08.09 | Gnarfoz | sick days are going what? ^^ |
| 03:08.17 | Mr_Rabies | say, something as rare (or rarer) than old salty |
| 03:08.19 | Mr_Rabies | er |
| 03:08.21 | Amarande | however, they are open to anyone who is willing to take the time and effort to gain that skill, regardless of when they can or can't play |
| 03:08.21 | Mr_Rabies | old uh |
| 03:08.22 | Mr_Rabies | whatever |
| 03:08.27 | Mr_Rabies | in if/org |
| 03:08.32 | Amarande | whereas Salty requires you to be available during specific time windows during the week |
| 03:08.42 | Kaylin | As somebody with Salty, Salty is all about rng and grinding, it's not "difficult" it's just time consuming. |
| 03:08.55 | Mr_Rabies | Gnarfoz: many businesses essentially offer no vacation or sick days anymore |
| 03:09.03 | Gnarfoz | business offering sick days?! |
| 03:09.08 | xyphoid | i think there should be heaps more hard competition achievements |
| 03:09.08 | Gnarfoz | must be USA |
| 03:09.23 | Amarande | And it will be harder in MoP because of zone sharing meaning the Fishing Extravaganza will be often 52 per datacentre per year, not 52 per server |
| 03:09.27 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, exactly Kaylin |
| 03:09.37 | Mr_Rabies | people confuse difficulty with "time taken" |
| 03:09.44 | Amarande | xyphoid: there are plenty of hard competition achievements, look at the battlegrounds |
| 03:09.54 | Mr_Rabies | which, i'm not opposed to achievements that take a long time to get |
| 03:09.55 | Kaylin | right but fishing isn't a pvp activity |
| 03:09.58 | Kaylin | battlegrounds are |
| 03:10.06 | Amarande | in fact, some of the BG achievements are so out there in difficulty that they practically require explicit collusion between sides in order to let one side get their achievement |
| 03:10.10 | xyphoid | more non-pvp competitions! |
| 03:10.12 | Unkle | It is if you do it right! |
| 03:10.15 | Gnarfoz | minimum holidays (is that actually the plural of "one holiday"? probably not) per year: 24! yay |
| 03:10.28 | Amarande | technically, any competition is PvP, even if it doesn't involve killing the other player :) |
| 03:10.31 | Mr_Rabies | man |
| 03:10.46 | Amarande | If we're *lucky* each server will still have 52 Kalu'ak fishing winners a year |
| 03:10.52 | Amarande | I'm not sure if Northrend is slated to be shared or not |
| 03:10.58 | Mr_Rabies | Gnarfoz, that's insane, i wish labor laws were anything like that here |
| 03:11.01 | xyphoid | if there's one big injustice in the achievement system it's the blade's edge demon minigame not having one |
| 03:11.09 | Mr_Rabies | here they'll fire you for showing up late one day |
| 03:11.18 | Amarande | xyphoid: you mean the simon relics? :P |
| 03:11.20 | Mr_Rabies | it's basically reverting to 19th century labor conditions |
| 03:11.34 | Mr_Rabies | and people say that "unions are unneeded these days" |
| 03:12.03 | xyphoid | no the shartuul's transporter event |
| 03:12.12 | Mr_Rabies | that event is so buggy now |
| 03:12.13 | Mr_Rabies | so |
| 03:12.14 | Mr_Rabies | so buggy |
| 03:12.27 | Mr_Rabies | i tried it the other day and it was like the end of the world |
| 03:12.42 | Mr_Rabies | teleporting all over, invisible monsters keeping me in combat forever |
| 03:12.53 | Gnarfoz | shartuul's transporter just got stuck a dozen of times for me, then one time, it randomly worked |
| 03:13.06 | pompy | its not meant to be an event anymore since cata iirc |
| 03:13.24 | Mr_Rabies | it's kind of crazy how broken some of the old stuff gets over time |
| 03:13.24 | *** join/#wowuidev wereHamster (~tomc@unaffiliated/werehamster) |
| 03:13.33 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: you mean like the battle for darrowshire pre cata? |
| 03:13.43 | Mr_Rabies | oh god |
| 03:13.47 | Mr_Rabies | even post cata it was broken for a while |
| 03:13.51 | Amarande | (and apparently even when it came out in cata and became part of standard leveling content it still required a bit of smoothing out) |
| 03:13.54 | Mr_Rabies | yeah |
| 03:14.01 | Mr_Rabies | i had to redo it like, 5-6 times |
| 03:14.25 | Amarande | Vashj'ir apparently is known for having some glitches too, although I managed not to encounter any on either my horde dk or alliance mage |
| 03:14.37 | Mr_Rabies | level 85s would bug it out |
| 03:14.45 | pompy | Mr_Rabies: http://mop.wowhead.com/npc=23230#comments:id=1440607 |
| 03:14.47 | Mr_Rabies | if you killed some mobs in one hit, the script at x health would never trigger |
| 03:14.56 | Mr_Rabies | and it would break the event until a server reset |
| 03:15.12 | Amarande | yeah, I'm still waiting for the level where even naked we'll need rez sickness to be able to properly do low level quests heh |
| 03:15.18 | Mr_Rabies | it's not so much that it's not intended to be an event, pompy |
| 03:15.26 | Mr_Rabies | it's more like they decided it wasn't worth fixing |
| 03:15.56 | Mr_Rabies | so how the f long ago was it that i tried it that it didn't work as of 4.1 |
| 03:16.00 | Mr_Rabies | it felt like not that long ago |
| 03:17.09 | Amarande | with Vashj'ir it seems that it's apparently all too easy for phasing triggers to fail to go off, leaving things not working properly |
| 03:17.27 | Amarande | basically, it's an example of an area that would be win and wonderful in a single player RPG |
| 03:17.37 | Amarande | but seems to easily fall prey to technical issues due to the necessities of MMOhood |
| 03:18.23 | Amarande | Mind you, even single player RPGs have had similar issues, but you don't have to worry in the likes of Skyrim or DA:O whether your script will affect the area for all the thousands of other people who might go by |
| 03:18.43 | xyphoid | i have a lot of sympathy for them after doing mud softcoding |
| 03:18.53 | Mr_Rabies | the one problem with underwater levels in single player games is it's harder to talk to friends about how terrible they are while you play them |
| 03:18.59 | xyphoid | oh my god the stuff players come up with to break your triggers |
| 03:19.07 | Mr_Rabies | i'm kind of |
| 03:19.15 | Mr_Rabies | known for accidentally breaking triggers in things |
| 03:19.20 | Mr_Rabies | well |
| 03:19.24 | Mr_Rabies | semi-accidentally |
| 03:19.48 | xyphoid | i had a block-pushing pyramid maze thing like the royal puzzle from Zork 3 |
| 03:19.56 | Mr_Rabies | i've done my fair share of breaking NPCs in single player games on consoles |
| 03:20.32 | Mr_Rabies | i'm pretty good at beta testing because my bad luck is pretty useful for testing things, it turns out |
| 03:20.45 | Mr_Rabies | if it can happen, it'll happen to me |
| 03:20.48 | xyphoid | player 1 quits. player 2 pulls block past. player 1 relogs and is past the block augh |
| 03:21.08 | xyphoid | handling people logging in inside blocks made it all worth it though |
| 03:21.40 | mckenziemc | o.o |
| 03:22.57 | Amarande | xyph: isn't the easy way to just say they insta-die, like in D&D if you teleport into something solid? |
| 03:23.05 | xyphoid | yep! |
| 03:24.53 | Amarande | I still remember in BG2 Throne of Bhaal when I had to use the cheat console because an area bugged out |
| 03:25.02 | Amarande | it was in Watcher's Keep where you had to kill all the golems to proceed |
| 03:25.21 | Amarande | I decided to use wise tactics and take advantage of doors, terrain etc. ... and then found out that apparently it resulted in the game failing to register the deaths of some of the golems in the script |
| 03:25.35 | Amarande | I literally had to use the console to re-summon already killed enemies so I could kill them again just to get them to register |
| 03:26.33 | Amarande | rofl. cyrukh is this giant thing and it only gives one "crystalline fragments" upon mining its corpse |
| 03:26.52 | Amarande | at least the rock boss guy in mana tombs gives some decent swag when you mine him :P |
| 03:29.16 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly|_ (~|Jelly|@c-98-234-60-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:43.21 | mckenziemc | wtf |
| 03:43.27 | mckenziemc | forest on a civ 5 tundra tile |
| 03:43.43 | mckenziemc | isn't that counter to the definition of tundra? |
| 03:44.13 | Esamynn | note to self, numeric string and a number look identical when printed, but really aren't |
| 03:44.19 | Esamynn | ~fishslap me |
| 03:44.19 | purl | ACTION slaps esamynn up side the head with a wet fish. |
| 03:44.20 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 03:44.33 | mckenziemc | fun |
| 03:44.40 | mckenziemc | i've made that mistake before |
| 03:45.12 | Esamynn | I spent 30 minutes looking for that one... oh, and I'd made a mental note hours earlier that I would need to fix that too! |
| 03:45.28 | mckenziemc | heh |
| 03:45.29 | Unkle | Esamynn and debugging that is no fun. |
| 03:45.46 | Esamynn | really not |
| 03:51.30 | *** join/#wowuidev zz_Cidan (~cidan@c-69-143-9-116.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 03:51.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Cidan (~cidan@conspiracy/developer/Cidan) |
| 04:05.29 | Esamynn | reminds me of one of the advantages of strongly typed languages |
| 04:20.06 | Adys | hahaha |
| 04:20.08 | Adys | The best part might be that somewhere in the Google+ code is a little comment to future engineers about the redirect, noting “Don’t take this out, we’re fucking with The Oatmeal.” |
| 04:23.42 | mckenziemc | ? |
| 04:32.08 | Arrowmaster | http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/12/google-plus-the-oatmeal/ |
| 04:37.06 | batbot | Shirik cannot destroy me. |
| 04:42.21 | Unkle | Night all. |
| 04:46.06 | Esamynn | victory to the swarm! |
| 04:46.11 | Esamynn | I deserve gelato for getting that working |
| 04:55.18 | Adys | Arrowmaster: "Martha is the rebound companion" |
| 04:55.32 | Adys | (last night's DW special) |
| 04:55.39 | Arrowmaster | havent watched it all yet |
| 04:56.08 | Adys | Im only watching it because im waiting for BrBa |
| 04:56.37 | Dagmar | Wait... what Dr. Who special |
| 04:56.59 | Adys | Dagmar: its a special episode about the Women of DW |
| 04:57.13 | Dagmar | Oh... Pfft. |
| 04:57.13 | Adys | not an actual episode |
| 05:07.47 | Mr_Rabies | i believe you realize when you have two copies of wow open that you're probably hopelessly addicted |
| 05:10.54 | Mr_Rabies | (i made a trial account so i can solo raids, but still) |
| 05:11.04 | Mr_Rabies | the fact that i even bothered says a lot |
| 05:11.21 | Kaylin | damn that's a good idea |
| 05:11.44 | Dagmar | I just ask guildies |
| 05:11.56 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, it's super easy, you just gotta flip a /console command from 0 to 1 to let a low level char join a raid |
| 05:11.58 | Mr_Rabies | and bam |
| 05:17.49 | Fisker | i'm tired |
| 05:20.02 | Mr_Rabies | cuz u ben runnin thru my head all night, gurl |
| 05:22.09 | Fisker | nope |
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| 05:28.58 | xyphoid | oh, can you console that? |
| 05:29.02 | xyphoid | i just levelled my trial hunter to 10 |
| 05:35.20 | Mr_Rabies | er, it's a /run actually |
| 05:35.22 | Mr_Rabies | /run SetAllowLowLevelRaid(true) |
| 05:38.20 | arton | These guys on Ebay sell beef jerky and you can choose a flavor. The catch is they don't put the flavoring on the beef jerky. You get the powder with the basic jerky. |
| 05:51.52 | *** join/#wowuidev wereHamster (~tomc@unaffiliated/werehamster) |
| 06:06.50 | Adys | holy fucking shit |
| 06:06.55 | Adys | that was quality |
| 06:15.41 | zenzio | what was? |
| 06:15.48 | Adys | breaking bad |
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| 06:15.51 | Adys | that was intense |
| 06:16.12 | Adys | I can't remember the last time I was shaking after watching an episode of.. anything really |
| 06:16.22 | zenzio | cool |
| 06:31.01 | zenzio | "The highest possible resolution images about 100,000 dots per inch have been achieved, and in full-colour, with a printing method that uses tiny pillars a few tens of nanometres tall. The method could be used to print tiny watermarks or secret messages for security purposes, [...]" |
| 06:31.12 | zenzio | okay, so it's tiny, but I'm not sure "hidden in plain sight" is the buzz anymore |
| 06:33.37 | Adys | it's more about security stripes & the like |
| 06:34.42 | Adys | imagine using that as a way to authenticate very expensive/rare papers, bills, paintings, etc |
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| 06:53.22 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 06:56.51 | bluspacecow | brb |
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| 07:18.10 | Adys | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:18.43 | zenzio | sounds like major changes |
| 07:19.33 | Adys | "Update jquery to 1.8" |
| 07:23.46 | bluspacecow | <PROTECTED> |
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| 07:26.39 | Mr_Rabies | hrm |
| 07:27.33 | Mr_Rabies | i really hope 5.0 is tomorrow or next week, i'm guessing not tomorrow since it's this close and we haven't heard much |
| 07:28.48 | Maldivia | Mr_Rabies: the background downloader just started... so probably 2 weeks |
| 07:29.11 | Adys | yeah no way its this week |
| 07:31.35 | wereHamster | 5.0 of what? |
| 07:31.39 | Adys | wow |
| 07:31.46 | wereHamster | MoP? |
| 07:31.54 | Adys | pre-expansion patch |
| 07:32.02 | wereHamster | ah |
| 07:32.49 | Mr_Rabies | i'm getting kind of itching to do some quests again |
| 07:33.19 | Mr_Rabies | 4.3 not really adding much in the way of quests in such a lull kinda sucked :( |
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| 08:09.16 | Maldivia | or well 5.0.4 :P |
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| 08:19.44 | Mr_Rabies | well, it may not be 5.0.4 once it goes live :p |
| 08:20.08 | Mr_Rabies | the preload's for 5.0.4 so far, but no telling what we'll see in the end |
| 08:20.49 | bluspacecow | yeah! |
| 08:20.53 | bluspacecow | it might be |
| 08:20.58 | bluspacecow | 5.0.muffins |
| 08:21.02 | bluspacecow | so there ! |
| 08:25.42 | Maldivia | probably going to be like tbc, with 12 #.0.x patches, or wotlk which jumped numbers like I don't know hwat |
| 08:28.02 | Maldivia | or well, basically like any of the previous expansion releases |
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| 08:43.51 | nevcairiel | they basically said 5.0.4 will be release |
| 08:43.58 | nevcairiel | but who knows |
| 08:44.02 | nevcairiel | also who cares |
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| 08:45.06 | zenzio | they should push it as 5.1.0, just to mess with people who care about version numbers |
| 08:46.52 | cbreak-work | zenzelezz: WoW 2013 |
| 08:47.08 | zenzio | wouldn't surprise me |
| 08:47.34 | cbreak-work | works for soccer "games" |
| 08:47.35 | zenzio | I remember the series UT, UT2003, UT2004, UT3... |
| 08:48.05 | zenzio | the 3 really puzzles me, since it at least should be 4... unless they disowned 2003 |
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| 09:15.31 | xyphoid | haha jumping off the SSC elevator still desyncs you |
| 09:15.34 | xyphoid | some things never change |
| 09:17.37 | zenzio | desynchs? |
| 09:17.51 | zenzio | all I remember is people plummeting to their deaths when we started learning it |
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| 09:25.15 | mitch0 | do modifier keys trigger OnKeyDown? |
| 09:27.07 | zenzio | alt, ctrl, etc? |
| 09:29.09 | mitch0 | yep |
| 09:30.49 | zenzio | that's an interesting question... wish I knew the answer |
| 09:33.19 | mitch0 | hm... |
| 09:33.49 | mitch0 | guess I'll just poll from an OnUpdate script if necessary |
| 09:36.46 | zenzio | what do you need it for? |
| 09:37.29 | mitch0 | toggling tooltips shown by bazooka |
| 09:37.46 | mitch0 | (only show the plugin's tooltip if shift is down) |
| 09:38.34 | mitch0 | the easy cop-out is to check the state at OnEnter, but if there's an easy way to do it properly, I'd take that route |
| 09:39.27 | Vladinator | !lua not not "test" |
| 09:39.27 | batbot | Vladinator: > true |
| 09:40.56 | zenzio | mitch0: http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api_types#binding seems to suggest they do send keydown |
| 09:41.06 | zenzio | should be easy to test at least |
| 09:41.18 | mitch0 | yeah, just not from work ;) |
| 09:41.25 | zenzio | pfft |
| 09:42.53 | mitch0 | although I probably don't want to make the plugins' frames keyboard-enabled anyway... |
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| 09:47.17 | xyphoid | why do people form up achievement groups with no plan |
| 09:47.37 | xyphoid | i've been sitting in a raid with rl friends for an hour and we've done 15 minutes of stuff |
| 09:48.03 | xyphoid | now they're comparing which BC heroics they need |
| 09:52.00 | zenzio | heh |
| 09:56.36 | mitch0 | hoho: http://wowprogramming.com/docs/events/MODIFIER_STATE_CHANGED |
| 09:58.07 | zenzio | sounds reasonable, though you'd have to keep track of it yourself |
| 09:58.25 | mitch0 | that's not biggy |
| 09:58.54 | mitch0 | I'd just call the tooltip handling stuff unconditionally, which checks IsShiftDown and stuff |
| 09:58.57 | mitch0 | or something |
| 10:01.07 | AcidWeb | By some miracle there is somebody here who use my REFlex and non-english client? |
| 10:08.39 | Humbedooh | rtharper_, bad coffee is still better than no coffee though - I forgot mine and ended up having to revise my work four times in a row :( |
| 10:08.50 | rtharper_ | That's a sad story, Humbedooh |
| 10:09.12 | Humbedooh | yes, sad sad story, and also publicly available because of the way the foundation works, so yay :p |
| 10:09.25 | Humbedooh | my failure are all over the Interwebs |
| 10:09.33 | Humbedooh | failures* - can't even spell today |
| 10:10.14 | rtharper_ | hahaha |
| 10:10.20 | rtharper_ | you aren't on facebook, are you Humbedooh? |
| 10:11.25 | Humbedooh | rtharper_, oh god noes - tried it once, left in a hurry :) |
| 10:12.14 | rtharper_ | oh |
| 10:12.16 | rtharper_ | shame |
| 10:12.44 | Humbedooh | I'm perfectly fine with anonymity :) |
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| 10:14.26 | rtharper_ | except when you fuck up your code? = |
| 10:15.29 | Humbedooh | but in the end I get it right! |
| 10:16.34 | rtharper_ | but not anonymously =p |
| 10:17.19 | Humbedooh | no no, but it doesn't have my name next to it, just says 'humbedooh' ;) |
| 10:28.20 | xyphoid | has anyone done a tool, given two armory links, present a combined achievements list? |
| 10:32.31 | AcidWeb | Sigh. |
| 10:32.56 | AcidWeb | Bliizzard not updated GetBattlefieldScore() to use new shiny specialisation ID.s |
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| 12:13.32 | AcidWeb | Anybody know fast method to convert file that use utf8 escape sequences (\235\185\132\236\160\132) to utf8? |
| 12:15.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Kodiack (~Work@96-42-240-206.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 12:21.29 | wereHamster | input.split('/').map(function(x) { parseInt(x) }) and then join together and treat as UTF8 byte buffer |
| 12:22.42 | zenzio | is that javascript or something else? |
| 12:23.46 | wereHamster | pseudocode |
| 12:33.58 | xyphoid | there is no way to get whether an achievement is horde or alliance from the armory api is there? |
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| 12:41.15 | xyphoid | cool this script works for giving me a list of achievements none of my alts have. |
| 12:42.56 | mitch0 | AcidWeb: maybe iconv(1) can do that |
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| 15:14.07 | Adys | "Google lays off 20% of Motorola staff and 40% of VPs" |
| 15:14.13 | Adys | "OMG WHAT HAPPENED TO DO NO EVIL" |
| 15:14.16 | Adys | idiots |
| 15:14.25 | Jamash | laying off vice presidents is like, the opposite of evil |
| 15:15.10 | Adys | my thoughts as well |
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| 15:16.15 | Jamash | evinkay utlerbay, VP of losing money |
| 15:17.35 | Adys | And I'm the VP in charge of managing the department that oversees the VP of losing money |
| 15:18.43 | Jamash | mr utlerbay said that he was leaving his post to "spend more time losing his family's money" |
| 15:19.34 | Adys | I'll get right on finding another VP |
| 15:19.42 | Adys | see |
| 15:19.45 | Adys | my job is useful |
| 15:20.50 | Jamash | right! |
| 15:21.15 | bluipodcow | Butterfly radish camero milkshake |
| 15:21.26 | Jamash | in other news, we've spun off your department into what we like to call a "disposable reentry vehicle" |
| 15:21.48 | bluipodcow | Yay! |
| 15:21.56 | bluipodcow | Hot wings! |
| 15:22.14 | Jamash | the deaf songbird sings in the garden of the blind |
| 15:22.32 | Jamash | do you have the "bird feathers"? |
| 15:22.53 | bluipodcow | I hope for the lady one |
| 15:23.55 | Jamash | the rain falls upon both the worthy and unworthy's umbrella alike |
| 15:24.00 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v nicoli_s] by ChanServ |
| 15:24.26 | Jamash | oh man I butchered that one |
| 15:24.59 | Jamash | The rain falls upon the just / And also on the unjust fellas / But mostly it falls upon the just / Cause the unjust have the just's umbrellas - Cormac McCarthy, The Stonemason |
| 15:25.33 | nilyaK | (8:21:14 AM) bluipodcow: Butterfly radish camero milkshake |
| 15:25.36 | nilyaK | you shouldn't share your passwords on irc <3 |
| 15:26.06 | Jamash | my password is "drowssap" |
| 15:26.09 | Jamash | nobody will ever guess it |
| 15:27.05 | Jamash | I suppose you could use pɹoʍssɐd if you could figure out how to type it |
| 15:27.16 | Amarande | an incredible drow fo rewop for sure? :P |
| 15:28.07 | Jamash | the power of shazbot |
| 15:29.11 | Jamash | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ5l5ls0hP4 |
| 15:30.44 | Jamash | shoop da woop |
| 15:31.37 | Jamash | oh snap http://i.qkme.me/3qgeko.jpg |
| 15:33.18 | nilyaK | lol |
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| 15:45.06 | Silvanas | lua is so great but it be awsome if it had more syntax suger :D |
| 15:46.03 | Silvanas | function x(one or "temp", two or "temp2") .... end would be awsome |
| 15:46.35 | F16Gaming | you could write: one = one or "temp" inside the function |
| 15:48.31 | Silvanas | i know, its what i do atm but it makes the functions more crowded, default values would be much cooler :D |
| 15:48.36 | *** join/#wowuidev d87 (~x@l49-96-195.cn.ru) |
| 15:48.45 | F16Gaming | :P |
| 15:49.35 | Silvanas | i gues i could make a suggestion out of it and then get yelled off by the comunity |
| 15:53.26 | alestane | I just put it on the same line: function x(one, two) one, two = one or "temp", two or "temp2" |
| 15:54.45 | Silvanas | hmm that is also possible indeed, didnt think of that |
| 15:55.20 | Silvanas | or create a framework for it that inject the function and its code using lualoadstring ^.^ |
| 15:56.12 | Silvanas | are the string inm GlobalString.lua automagicly localised across other country's ? |
| 15:56.58 | Vladinator | yes Silvanas |
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| 16:06.38 | neutronimity | For hunters, why is the auto-shot part stripped from /startattack if there is a /cast command in the same macro? |
| 16:07.18 | Shirik | because any other shot will automatically cast auto-shot as well |
| 16:07.36 | Shirik | for some definition of "cast" |
| 16:08.10 | neutronimity | Will have to have a target first then. :< |
| 16:08.30 | neutronimity | I took /targetenemy |
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| 16:13.20 | TC-Work | ~ping |
| 16:13.20 | purl | ~pong |
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| 16:25.29 | TC-Work | ~tumbleweed |
| 16:25.30 | purl | ACTION rolls across the empty channel to the theme of The Good, The Bad & The Ugly. |
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| 16:31.42 | pompy | Cairenn|afk: http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/530982_417228821645715_813232060_n.jpg |
| 16:36.27 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 16:37.27 | *** join/#wowuidev nilyaK1 (~Kaylin@71-35-110-25.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 16:51.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Unkle (~Unkle@75.101.7.187) |
| 16:52.48 | Unkle | station |
| 16:55.55 | bluipodcow | Master |
| 17:02.07 | Silvanas | silly tooltips never work when you want them to |
| 17:06.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~Mihau@76.164.170.2) |
| 17:06.13 | TC-Work | Unkle: so is you at teh new job now? |
| 17:06.16 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@68.36.135.0) |
| 17:17.59 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@68.36.135.0) |
| 17:21.02 | bluipodcow | New job? |
| 17:22.31 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 17:26.17 | alestane | Unkle packed himself off to the desolate wasteland that is northern California. |
| 17:33.30 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 17:34.48 | alestane | pouncles Cairenn all over the place. |
| 17:34.57 | Cairenn | eeps |
| 17:34.58 | Maldivia | desolate wasteland... I thought that was nevada |
| 17:35.01 | cogwheel | tee hee desolate wasteland |
| 17:36.11 | Vladinator | it's the waiting for customer support to call you back that kills you :( |
| 17:36.31 | *** join/#wowuidev nilyaK (~Kaylin@71-35-110-25.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 17:36.47 | Vladinator | soon been one hour, and they close in ~1h 15m |
| 17:37.57 | Gnarfoz | as if |
| 17:38.03 | alestane | It's good to be back. |
| 17:38.21 | bluipodcow | Hmmmm |
| 17:41.49 | nilyaK | wiggles fearsomely. |
| 17:42.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Monolit (~Strigoy@89.112.4.92.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 17:43.23 | *** join/#wowuidev nilyaK1 (~Kaylin@71-35-110-25.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 17:48.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Antze (~Antze@87.239.27.81) |
| 17:49.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Telshin (~textual@76.164.170.2) |
| 17:50.01 | Torhal|work | nilyaK1: I'm unsure of the legality of that under the terms of the Geneva Convention. |
| 17:50.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Unkle (~Unkle@75.101.7.187) |
| 17:56.35 | Unkle | TC-Work: si. |
| 17:57.29 | Arrowmaster | ive been meaning to ask, why does a vineyard have an IT department and how big is it? from the pics of cogs old cube it looked like a decent sized office |
| 17:58.04 | nilyaK1 | IDK maybe they have a computerized fermenting/cooling/other things system |
| 17:58.55 | Arrowmaster | i can see computerized inventory management but thats something that could easily be contracted out if that was all |
| 17:58.57 | Vladinator | fermentation is such a simple process I don't know if you need a huge team :D |
| 17:59.00 | Unkle | Someone has to manage the network, the email and web servers, the printers, and all of that. And it's small - like 12 people in the business office. I'm pretty much lost as to who everyone is right now though. |
| 17:59.34 | kd3 | yay for batteries that can hold a charge |
| 17:59.58 | Unkle | Small shop, but lots of things they need done, and they need specialized knowledge that doesn't have to do with making wine. |
| 17:59.59 | Arrowmaster | Unkle: ok so its a business office and just a few IT people to support them? |
| 18:00.00 | kd3 | unplugged his phone at 7 this morning when he left for work and it's still above 50% |
| 18:00.14 | Unkle | Arrowmaster - It's ME to support them. |
| 18:00.26 | Arrowmaster | ah |
| 18:00.41 | TC-Work | Unkle: Does that mean we are going to be missing out on amusing rage filled workdays? |
| 18:00.57 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 18:01.21 | Unkle | Cogwheel rarely had rage days, so... You might have to use Adys or Dagmar to get your IT rage fix. |
| 18:01.49 | TC-Work | But that could have just been cogwheel, he does have a more placid demeanor |
| 18:02.22 | TC-Work | or it could have been the huge volume of drugs that he consumes |
| 18:02.25 | Unkle | Yes, you have a point. Thus far, everyone seems pretty great. |
| 18:02.25 | TC-Work | one or the other |
| 18:02.40 | kd3 | IT raging? ooh, can I bitch about TGT? |
| 18:02.43 | kd3 | looks for some alcohol |
| 18:03.03 | Unkle | Though how Cog lived without Notepadd++ installed, well... I don't know. |
| 18:03.51 | nilyaK1 | he lived an unincremented life, Unkle. |
| 18:05.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@p5B04C09D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:19.58 | *** join/#wowuidev ccox_ (~ccox@sjfw1.adobe.com) |
| 18:19.58 | *** join/#wowuidev ccox_ (~ccox@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/CCox) |
| 18:22.07 | cogwheel | Unkle: i did... i think it only installs per-user by default |
| 18:22.11 | cogwheel | also vim |
| 18:22.12 | cogwheel | :P |
| 18:22.26 | Unkle | Bah. |
| 18:23.26 | Maldivia | Unkle: oh, you got a new job - apparently I haven't been paying attention to this channel :P How northern is this "desolate wasteland" though ? |
| 18:23.44 | Adys | Maldivia secretly hates you and doesnt care about you |
| 18:24.01 | Adys | actually, s/secretly// |
| 18:24.18 | Esamynn|work | ~lart Adys |
| 18:24.18 | purl | lowers Adys's priority |
| 18:24.33 | Unkle | Nothing desolate about it. It's a beautiful place surrounded by hills, mountains, and lots of farms. And I'm nestled safely in civilization. I even have decent cell signal. |
| 18:25.03 | Dagmar | What about the CHUDS? |
| 18:25.10 | Maldivia | Adys: no, that's just you |
| 18:25.24 | Dagmar | A place like that is going to have some terrible secret. |
| 18:25.24 | Adys | aww |
| 18:25.24 | Adys | Im touched |
| 18:25.25 | Unkle | Canabalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers? Saw them at WalMart. |
| 18:25.38 | Dagmar | Most likely CHUDs or a surplus of eerie platinum-blond kids in the neighborhood. |
| 18:25.50 | Adys | Dagmar: Unkle lives in twin peaks |
| 18:25.55 | Adys | dun dun duh |
| 18:26.06 | Dagmar | ...or a history of unsolved blood sacrifices. |
| 18:26.30 | Dagmar | Wait... no... Farms and cell signal can only mean one thing. |
| 18:26.43 | cogwheel | it's funny to see people speculating about where unkle works/lives when i've been there for 8.5 years >< |
| 18:26.50 | Unkle | Seriously. |
| 18:26.53 | Adys | who cares where *you* live. |
| 18:26.54 | Dagmar | It's actually sitting atop a deep cover goverment radiological research facility. |
| 18:26.59 | cogwheel | Adys: he has my job |
| 18:27.05 | cogwheel | and my house |
| 18:27.08 | Adys | who cares who has *your* job |
| 18:27.09 | Adys | ah |
| 18:27.15 | Adys | well the house thats something else entirely. |
| 18:27.38 | nilyaK1 | I do not understand today's xkcd |
| 18:27.40 | Torhal|work | cogwheel: He's a pod-person? |
| 18:28.02 | cogwheel | something like that |
| 18:29.19 | Unkle | I was grown on a vine to replace Cogwheel. Soon I will spore, and replace others. Then the world will know peace. |
| 18:29.45 | Adys | burns Unkle's vine |
| 18:30.51 | Maldivia | sounds fascinating |
| 18:31.47 | Fisker | hey Maldivia |
| 18:34.52 | Adys | What is the biggest movie plot-hole you have ever seen? (self.AskReddit) |
| 18:34.52 | Adys | 19805 comments |
| 18:34.53 | Adys | uhum... |
| 18:34.55 | Maldivia | hey Fisker |
| 18:36.31 | Fisker | i'm glad you heyed me |
| 18:36.40 | Fisker | this means war |
| 18:38.23 | *** join/#wowuidev ccox_ (~ccox@c-98-248-30-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:38.23 | *** join/#wowuidev ccox_ (~ccox@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/CCox) |
| 18:43.51 | Unkle | Yay, first real IT task. Someone needed documents moved to a public folder. |
| 18:44.19 | kullervo | lol |
| 18:44.28 | nilyaK1 | welcome to hell |
| 18:44.47 | Unkle | :) |
| 18:45.08 | Adys | Unkle: "That's great. Great job, Unkle. Just one thing. Could you keep these two documents in their original folder? Oh, and could you delete this one while you're at it. Thanks in advance." |
| 18:45.33 | Unkle | The voice of experience speaks! |
| 18:45.47 | *** join/#wowuidev bluipodcow (~bluspacec@114-134-0-112.lightwire.co.nz) |
| 18:45.47 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluipodcow] by ChanServ |
| 18:47.10 | kullervo | Adys: symlink the two documents |
| 18:47.46 | Unkle | Dear Windows. I AM an owner on that file. Stop being rediculous! |
| 18:48.09 | Adys | kullervo: Tell you what, I'll ask my designer to draw up a graph of the new folder layout, it should be with you by tonight. |
| 18:48.32 | Dagmar | Adys: I have a very simple solution to those kinds of requests. |
| 18:48.35 | nilyaK1 | can it be in 3d? I hear 3d is all the rage |
| 18:48.55 | Dagmar | Adys: I merrily send back an email saying that I have deleted the directory requested and close the ticket. |
| 18:50.08 | nilyaK1 | better: that's not possible, I've faxed you a printout of the document, please retype it into a new microsoft word document in the desired folder. |
| 18:50.26 | Adys | http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/y50d3/what_is_the_biggest_movie_plothole_you_have_ever/c5se8vy?context=1 |
| 18:50.29 | kd3 | ooh, navy |
| 18:50.33 | kd3 | s/navy/nasty/ |
| 18:50.38 | kd3 | navy, kd3? seriously? |
| 18:53.59 | Maldivia | Unkle: and when he comes back in 30 minutes and can't find the file in its original place ? |
| 18:54.28 | Primer | So glad I don't work in IT |
| 18:54.36 | Unkle | That's what shortcuts and/or symlinks are for |
| 18:55.04 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 18:55.42 | Adys | http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/y50d3/what_is_the_biggest_movie_plothole_you_have_ever/c5sdzbz |
| 18:55.44 | Adys | tah-dah |
| 18:59.12 | nilyaK1 | buys 55 more maelstrom crystals.. I have a problem. |
| 19:00.05 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_work (~sylvanaar@pdpc/supporter/active/sylvanaar) |
| 19:00.22 | sylvanaar_work | the things you learn on the internet http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/y5nqy/til_having_too_much_iron_in_your_diet_can_cause/ |
| 19:04.13 | *** join/#wowuidev rtharper (~tomh@188-220-5-137.zone11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:04.14 | *** join/#wowuidev rtharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 19:05.18 | nilyaK1 | His secret plan is to cut himself using the safety insert paper, and then congeal his blood into a shiv because of the iron content. |
| 19:05.36 | kd3 | ugh, what the hell |
| 19:05.38 | kd3 | Multiple people shot near Texas A&M University. This is not a repeat of what has been happening a lot lately [NewsFlash] |
| 19:05.44 | nilyaK1 | (note: this does not actually work) |
| 19:05.47 | kd3 | http://news.yahoo.com/texas-m-active-shooter-campus-apprehended-181814814.html |
| 19:06.56 | Adys | Your doctor may suspect iron overload on the basis of symptoms, findings from a routine blood test or if you complain that you are setting off metal detectors at the airport or other places. |
| 19:06.58 | Adys | Well doc |
| 19:07.07 | Adys | I've been having these chest pains |
| 19:07.16 | Adys | and I keep setting off the fucking detectors at the airport. |
| 19:07.33 | Adys | Here's a perfectly normal conversation to have with your MD. |
| 19:07.33 | sylvanaar_work | I think that is so funny |
| 19:08.40 | sylvanaar_work | It makes perfect sense, but it is still really wierd. |
| 19:08.51 | kd3 | http://arstechnica.com/security/2012/08/hacked-blizzard-passwords-not-hard-to-crack/ |
| 19:09.46 | Primer | and I never changed my password... |
| 19:10.08 | Adys | oh this fucking bs again |
| 19:10.12 | Unkle | I did. And had to swap out the authenticator since my hardware token went nuts. |
| 19:10.25 | Adys | Shocking news: Badly configured security makes for poor security |
| 19:10.37 | kd3 | s/poor/no/ |
| 19:12.08 | Adys | Also missing from Blizzard's advisory is this: salting does nothing to increase the time it takes to crack any single hash |
| 19:12.14 | Adys | Ars articles have gotten shit lately. |
| 19:12.54 | Adys | In other news, airbags in cars have been proven useless against death by explosions |
| 19:13.52 | Esamynn|work | shocking |
| 19:14.28 | Adys | > One blogger |
| 19:14.28 | Adys | NO! Not a blogger! Anything but that! No... Noooooooooooo |
| 19:14.29 | Adys | hah |
| 19:14.34 | Primer | "...given the fact that Blizzard passwords are case insensitive..." uhm, say what? |
| 19:14.49 | Primer | pretty sure that's not true |
| 19:14.51 | Adys | Primer: passwords are permanently lowercased |
| 19:15.05 | Adys | Primer: its likely an artifact of the early wow days |
| 19:15.20 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@69.224.70.199) |
| 19:15.24 | Adys | theres little room to actually change that without forcing everyone to change their pw |
| 19:15.24 | Primer | I recall accidentally having caps lock on while typing my password and it failed |
| 19:15.34 | nilyaK1 | then you mistyped it. |
| 19:15.38 | Adys | thats because caps lock != str.upper |
| 19:15.49 | Adys | what country are you from Primer? |
| 19:16.05 | Primer | Brazil |
| 19:16.14 | Primer | Why do you ask? |
| 19:16.16 | Adys | half your keys are different with caps lock then |
| 19:16.22 | Primer | is in the USA |
| 19:16.34 | Primer | and uses a US keyboard |
| 19:16.43 | Adys | even on US layout some keys are different |
| 19:19.02 | Esamynn|work | actually, I think the case insensitive passwords date back to the original battle.net |
| 19:19.39 | Adys | its possible it was in there as well |
| 19:19.43 | Adys | but wow's authentication was not bnet |
| 19:20.03 | nilyaK1 | original bnet drives me crazy with their broken (read:incorrect) implementation of SHA1 for their login procedure that makes it awful. |
| 19:20.16 | Esamynn|work | but it wouldn't be surprising that the practice was carried over |
| 19:21.45 | nilyaK1 | yea classic bnet uses the uppercased version of passwords |
| 19:27.08 | Adys | "I might be wrong but I don't think the perspective view can be generated with 2D only." |
| 19:27.49 | Adys | see maybe i couldve understood those guys if we were still stuck in a CRT era |
| 19:28.13 | Adys | perhaps in his head, behind the glass is actually a whole other *dimension* |
| 19:31.00 | nilyaK1 | http://imgur.com/gallery/wHJrZ |
| 19:31.04 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@68.36.135.0) |
| 19:31.17 | Primer | chimera cat |
| 19:33.19 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 19:33.19 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 19:35.47 | mckenziemc | hey blu |
| 19:38.17 | bluspacecow | https://twitter.com/YourAnonNews/status/235097420944506881 |
| 19:38.22 | bluspacecow | interesting. |
| 19:46.52 | cbreak | nilyaK1: why do you think they use sha1? |
| 19:47.19 | cbreak | nilyaK1: from what I read they use a special challenge response shared secret calculation scheme for validation |
| 19:47.50 | cbreak | they don't actually transfer any hashes apart from when you change a password |
| 19:48.04 | *** join/#wowuidev nebula169` (~nebula@c-75-72-138-186.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 19:48.47 | cbreak | nilyaK1: here: http://www.opine.me/blizzards-battle-net-hack/ |
| 19:48.57 | Dagmar | That's some complete crap right there |
| 19:49.27 | Primer | I made a video of some dude that was obviously a bot. I'm guessing blizz would take a bot report pretty seriously? |
| 19:49.42 | nilyaK1 | yes that one @ cbreak, classic bnet their implementation is wrong |
| 19:49.56 | cbreak | why do you think that? |
| 19:50.05 | Esamynn|work | Primer: yes, but don't expect a response to your submission, or immediate action |
| 19:50.50 | cbreak | nilyaK1: I bet they use a standard sha1 implementation |
| 19:51.02 | nilyaK1 | http://www.bnetdocs.org/?op=packet&pid=146 |
| 19:51.37 | Primer | Esamynn|work: I'd just hate to think the fucker is getting away with it. Guess I'll friend him first. If he gets permanently banned, that friend should disappear, no? |
| 19:51.50 | Esamynn|work | no clue |
| 19:52.04 | Dagmar | I fail to see how one can improve on the "You should change your password now by clicking this link" |
| 19:52.20 | Dagmar | Primer: /ignore him |
| 19:52.23 | cbreak | Dagmar: by adding incorrect english grammar |
| 19:52.49 | Dagmar | You'll get a messaage when you can no longer ignore them because the character no longer exists. |
| 19:52.58 | Primer | Dagmar: that'll work. Thanks |
| 19:53.31 | Dagmar | I like to imagine the sound of corks popping when I see that message |
| 19:54.44 | Primer | I don't like cheaters |
| 19:54.48 | Dagmar | cbreak: Seriously, that guy is just drumming up sales for his company and not much else |
| 19:54.57 | Dagmar | That blog post _was_ mainly sensationalism |
| 19:55.16 | Dagmar | Just because you can buy a lot of computer time and crack passwords doesn't magically make it not difficult |
| 19:55.22 | cbreak | just ignore the text and only read the math. |
| 19:55.30 | Primer | gah, this video is taking forever to encode...I guess 1920x1200 bgr24 and 5 channel sound isn't the way to cap... |
| 19:55.33 | cbreak | it's the only interesting part |
| 19:55.46 | Dagmar | I'm not even going to look at his math because he's talking about static passwords |
| 19:55.58 | Primer | heh, it's encoding at 4 fps |
| 19:56.01 | Dagmar | Without requiring fucking 12+ character passwords, that's just pissing in the wind to rely on them |
| 19:56.17 | Dagmar | bcrypt isn't a magic bullet that will save someone |
| 19:56.17 | cbreak | Dagmar: incidentally, that's what blizz stored. |
| 19:56.43 | Dagmar | You use two-factor, or you fucking change your password when the ciphertext is compromised |
| 19:56.46 | cbreak | the main danger is that he can find out the true password someone used, and then reuse it somewhere else |
| 19:57.01 | cbreak | your blizzard two factor auth is worthless |
| 19:57.07 | Dagmar | Oh like those people aren't in bigger danger from the OTHER sites |
| 19:57.11 | cbreak | since he had more access than you'll ever have even with all your factors combined :) |
| 19:57.29 | Dagmar | He had what?? |
| 19:57.43 | cbreak | copying the password database |
| 19:58.18 | Dagmar | Which affects authenticator users how? |
| 19:58.19 | nilyaK1 | http://forum.valhallalegends.com/index.php?topic=16701.0 bottom of the thread here@implementation for classic bnet |
| 19:58.36 | cbreak | if you have access to that database, you can write your own info into every user. |
| 19:58.40 | cbreak | so you can log in as everyone. |
| 19:58.46 | cbreak | (write access required of course) |
| 19:58.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool019.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 19:58.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 19:58.53 | nilyaK1 | (this applies to the login process and not to wc3/wow/sc2/d3) |
| 20:00.25 | nilyaK1 | afk going home now back in an hour ish |
| 20:00.41 | Dagmar | I don't see where he claims he has write access to the db |
| 20:01.53 | cbreak | even if he only has read access, he has more access than you have with your two factor authentication :) |
| 20:01.54 | Dagmar | Mainly I see him rolling out a bunch of fear-mongering |
| 20:02.26 | Dagmar | WTF is he even mentioning password reuse |
| 20:02.47 | Dagmar | There's a site popular in here that was getting quietly popped on a regular basis for that |
| 20:02.50 | cbreak | isn't that the whole point of reversing password hashes? |
| 20:03.19 | Dagmar | No, it's to get the password to login to the site the credentials were stolen from |
| 20:03.38 | Esamynn|work | at which point, if you CHANGE your password... |
| 20:03.53 | Dagmar | Password reuse checks against other sites are just a nice bonus you get because so many people are retarded and ignore the boldface, bright red, half-inch high font on the screen saying to not reuse your password |
| 20:04.48 | cbreak | if you want to use the redentials on the same page, you have to be significantly more stealthy |
| 20:04.54 | Esamynn|work | let's use the same password, EVERYWHERE... fucking biometrics |
| 20:05.04 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (~drag@mna75-2-82-67-196-34.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:05.11 | cbreak | Esamynn|Away: you have 10 fingers, don't you? :) |
| 20:05.30 | Dagmar | Someone's clearly got some good shit |
| 20:05.48 | Esamynn|work | do I really need to point out the obvious? |
| 20:06.20 | cbreak | yeah, I know that obviously the average number of fingers a human has is lower |
| 20:06.38 | cbreak | but that's mainly because of outliers |
| 20:06.52 | Dagmar | That's assuming there a more people who've lost fingers than there are twelve-fingered freaks |
| 20:07.00 | cbreak | http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=average+number+of+fingers says it's 10. |
| 20:07.00 | Esamynn|work | I was more thinking of... I leave fingerprints EVERYWHERE... oh, and I can't easily change them |
| 20:07.03 | Dagmar | ...and "collectors" but those are kind of a zero-sum situaiton. |
| 20:07.09 | Shirik | what happens when your hands are dipped in acid or something |
| 20:07.24 | mckenziemc | dips Shirik in acid. |
| 20:07.29 | Dagmar | Shirik: You get to buy that fancy biometric scanner we were talking about last week |
| 20:07.40 | Dagmar | The one that mounts in the center of yer office chair |
| 20:08.03 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 20:08.06 | Dagmar | Thankfully lifted fingerprints only fool shitty fingerprint scanners |
| 20:08.17 | cbreak | Esamynn|Away: after your fingerprints are compromised, just switch to iris scans, toe prints, but cheek geometry scans, finger bone analysis |
| 20:08.26 | cbreak | or brain layout scans |
| 20:08.28 | Dagmar | The AssScan2000. |
| 20:08.30 | Esamynn|work | ~fishslap cbreak |
| 20:08.30 | purl | ACTION slaps cbreak up side the head with a wet fish. |
| 20:08.40 | Dagmar | Colo-rectal tomography scanning. |
| 20:10.05 | Esamynn|work | just the entire idea of using a "password" that I can't easily change when (not IF) compromised strikes me as insanely stupid |
| 20:10.24 | Dagmar | That's why biometrics are not supposed to be used alone. |
| 20:10.29 | Esamynn|work | aye |
| 20:10.35 | Dagmar | They fall under the "something you are" pragma |
| 20:10.47 | Dagmar | ...along with "Something you have" and "something you know" |
| 20:10.48 | Esamynn|work | yes, but how many people actually understand that? |
| 20:11.03 | Dagmar | So few if I started killing people for not knowing it, I would never be able to stop. |
| 20:11.24 | Dagmar | Not even swinging my arms really fast could I outkill the idiot supply |
| 20:11.40 | cbreak | depending on the way you kill them, finger print scans might not work anymore anyway... |
| 20:12.07 | Dagmar | Most non-crap (which is actually more than half hte ones I've seen) fingerprint readers check for pulse as well as temp |
| 20:12.20 | Esamynn|work | I'm going to get lunch now, before you guys ruin my appetite |
| 20:12.21 | Dagmar | A freshly "surplused" finger isn't going to work |
| 20:17.40 | Dagmar | You know... what might work is if you peel the skin off the finger, and then put it on the tip of your tongue, and then lick the biometric reader. |
| 20:18.33 | mckenziemc | vomits on Dagmar. |
| 20:24.00 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitch@2E6B3AE7.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 20:24.30 | Dagmar | What should disturb you is that I know folks who will take that idea seriously, with experimentation just to be sure. |
| 20:33.34 | bluspacecow | well better then chopping the finger off i suppose |
| 20:34.47 | mckenziemc | wat |
| 20:35.33 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@dslb-092-072-015-108.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:35.33 | bluspacecow | ties baked beans! |
| 20:36.24 | mckenziemc | An unmet bluspacecow has entered the Ancient Era! |
| 20:38.28 | Vladinator | talking about authentication oncem ore? :P |
| 20:40.24 | Primer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srHAo9g4dkw <-- video I made of skinning bot. I actually still haven't reported him |
| 20:40.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaylin (~Kaylin@c-98-203-233-187.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 20:40.55 | Primer | I actually whispered him saying that I was going to report him and now I fear retribution |
| 20:41.04 | mckenziemc | o.o |
| 20:41.53 | Kaylin | for what? did you report some guy selling deathchargers? my friend got a bunch for 3k by threatening to report them >_> |
| 20:44.21 | Primer | no |
| 20:44.23 | Primer | a skinning bot |
| 20:44.32 | F16Gaming | hm |
| 20:45.02 | F16Gaming | manually modifying default browser in registry doesn't update immediately? |
| 20:45.36 | mckenziemc | it's windows, what do you expect |
| 20:47.42 | Kaylin | I expect it to have some panes. |
| 20:47.59 | Kaylin | waits for groans. |
| 20:48.17 | Torhal|work | stops Kaylin from wiggling. |
| 20:48.31 | Kaylin | sets. |
| 20:50.31 | bluspacecow | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:52.56 | Kaylin | LibreOffice installer why you take so long *shakes fist* |
| 20:54.39 | bluspacecow | maybe it'll go faster |
| 20:54.42 | bluspacecow | if you lick the screen |
| 20:55.07 | Kaylin | hmm, perhaps |
| 20:55.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (~Yssaril@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:00.55 | Arrowmaster | why the fuck couldnt this have been out during the summer sale when the double fine pack was on sale multiple times http://store.steampowered.com/app/115120/ |
| 21:05.10 | Maldivia | Arrowmaster: wasn't the double fine pack just psychonauts, stacking and costume? |
| 21:05.24 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 21:05.36 | Maldivia | ohh, and it's still up for -50% :) |
| 21:05.40 | Arrowmaster | which is all 3 games double fine had on steam at that point |
| 21:11.17 | Vladinator | ~lick bluspacecow |
| 21:11.17 | purl | ACTION licks bluspacecow *SHLUUURRRRPPP* |
| 21:14.31 | bluspacecow | hahahahahaha LOLOLOLOL http://day4.se/how-we-screwed-almost-the-whole-apple-community/ |
| 21:14.37 | Dagmar | Oh yes |
| 21:14.40 | Dagmar | That one's great |
| 21:15.07 | bluspacecow | and with that i sleep. |
| 21:15.24 | Dagmar | There's probably people at Apple searching right now for a service that will deliver rotten baskets of fruit. |
| 21:15.47 | Dagmar | ...or the more traditional flaming bag of dog poop. |
| 21:16.55 | Vladinator | Using custom screws on new products so you rather buy new once than fixing problems yourself -not really a new thing, and yes I hate it. |
| 21:17.11 | Vladinator | Like buying a car you need to replace at the manufacturer because no mechanic can fix it for you/or too expensive. :P |
| 21:18.23 | Arrowmaster | that used to happen |
| 21:18.30 | Arrowmaster | i believe there were lawsuits |
| 21:19.10 | Vladinator | Waiting for the modenr lawsuit so we can open up our phones and swap our broken screens without having custom tools or a heatgun to remove the glue. :P |
| 21:19.47 | Dagmar | ...and yet some guys made hte most thinly veiled attempt at making shit up wholesale, and people STILL worked themselves into a frenzy over it. |
| 21:20.05 | Dagmar | I have yet to see a "security bit" you can't buy online for less than five bucks, after shipping |
| 21:20.21 | Arrowmaster | i have |
| 21:20.50 | Dagmar | Might as well just put the thing together with barrel-lock keys |
| 21:21.01 | Arrowmaster | find a firehydrent pentagonal wrench for less than $5 with shipping |
| 21:21.16 | Dagmar | Those are rather large and unlikely to be used in laptops. |
| 21:21.17 | mckenziemc | o.O |
| 21:21.32 | Dagmar | Plus there's the whole "wtf" factor |
| 21:21.38 | Arrowmaster | you never mentioned what it had to be used for |
| 21:22.04 | Dagmar | Those are mainly meant to keep kids from tapping a hydrant to play in and leaving it spewing all day |
| 21:22.07 | mckenziemc | and why have you looked for one |
| 21:22.22 | Vladinator | What's so bad with tiny cross screwdrivers? :( |
| 21:22.34 | Arrowmaster | i havent, i just know they weight a lot more than you can get shipped for $5 |
| 21:22.37 | Dagmar | Vladinator: Damned if I know. I've got like 30-40 of them |
| 21:22.41 | mckenziemc | :p |
| 21:22.50 | Vladinator | I love cross, it's good enough for everything. |
| 21:23.05 | Dagmar | I have a torx bit that can probably be used on those fancy NSA spy drone insects |
| 21:23.23 | Dagmar | It's less than half a mm wide |
| 21:23.36 | Arrowmaster | how |
| 21:23.43 | Dagmar | I hope like hell I never have to use it becasue I can't find my jewelers loupe anymore |
| 21:23.47 | Arrowmaster | what is it made of that it doesnt break |
| 21:24.02 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: doesn't have to be much considering what it's going into |
| 21:24.26 | Arrowmaster | i always overtightn shit so i would probably break it |
| 21:25.27 | Arrowmaster | also high speed gifs from the olympics http://imgur.com/a/mYQPt |
| 21:25.39 | Vladinator | http://www.vgtv.no/#!id=55276 |
| 21:26.19 | Vladinator | so kewt! |
| 21:29.14 | Vladinator | they said that the lamb was ignored by the other sheep, but the dog started to take care of it lol |
| 21:29.55 | Vladinator | bah, only a bunch of frostborn will not find it cute :( |
| 21:30.56 | mckenziemc | i didn't see anything cute, but that's because noscript's blocking the content :O |
| 21:31.22 | Arrowmaster | same |
| 21:33.17 | *** join/#wowuidev olafski (~egrimm@dream.student.utwente.nl) |
| 21:35.58 | Vladinator | it's a video... |
| 21:36.21 | Vladinator | vg is a newspaper in norway so it's not scam lol or viruses |
| 21:37.42 | mckenziemc | dalmation lamb :o |
| 21:38.27 | Vladinator | ye |
| 21:41.15 | Vladinator | bbc documentary about some mathematicians, they all die at some point like suecide, insanity issues, e.g. imagine the odds, bad luck... OR IS IT?! |
| 21:41.51 | Vladinator | elaborate scheme to make them seem insane then commit suecide all to cover up when they were on the right track! |
| 21:43.34 | Vladinator | (Georg Cantor, Ludwig Boltzmann, Kurt Gödel and Alan Turing) |
| 21:46.58 | Vladinator | http://mop.wowhead.com/spells?filter=sc=0;na=Loot;cr=16;crs=5;crv=0#0+1+16+3 what's up with the loot spells? are they making it so when a boss dies you get "buffed" with these to trigger the loot? |
| 21:47.49 | Vladinator | and there are "Bonus" effects for all the spells, probably for bonus loot |
| 21:48.26 | Stanzilla | yeah you can use coins to get bonus loot |
| 21:48.38 | mckenziemc | thank god amarande isn't here, i was worried you'd get him started |
| 21:48.53 | Vladinator | how come? |
| 21:49.21 | Vladinator | why would Amarande go crazy? |
| 21:50.25 | mckenziemc | you haven't been around for his walls of text? |
| 21:50.50 | xyphoid | Loot spells will make brewfest too hard! |
| 21:50.58 | mckenziemc | lol |
| 21:51.05 | Vladinator | xyphoid: explain |
| 21:51.15 | mckenziemc | >.> |
| 21:51.49 | mckenziemc | Vladinator: sacrasm mocking Amarande |
| 21:51.53 | xyphoid | it's a long story. |
| 21:51.55 | mckenziemc | sarca* |
| 21:51.56 | xyphoid | a very long story. |
| 21:52.21 | Vladinator | no problem. I'll just search the irc logs for Amarande and long messages and see the summary :P |
| 21:55.04 | Vladinator | if lua is so popular, why are there no proper IDE for it? like Netbeans for Java, C, PHP, e.g. :P |
| 21:55.19 | Dagmar | because you fail at Google? |
| 21:55.58 | Dagmar | http://luaeclipse.luaforge.net/ |
| 21:56.15 | Dagmar | Practically everything goes through Eclipse. ...probably including Brainfuck |
| 21:56.21 | durcyn | also https://bitbucket.org/sylvanaar2/lua-for-idea/wiki/Home |
| 21:56.50 | durcyn | also /usr/bin/vim |
| 21:57.15 | mckenziemc | heh |
| 21:57.48 | Primer | luaeclipse isn't that great |
| 21:57.56 | Dagmar | ...but it *does* exist. |
| 21:58.07 | Primer | and it hasn't seen development in...many years |
| 21:58.17 | Dagmar | Still a "proper" IDE |
| 21:58.28 | Primer | not really |
| 21:58.36 | Dagmar | yarly |
| 21:58.41 | Primer | it's just glorified syntax highlighting |
| 21:59.20 | Vladinator | I Haven't found a IDE for lua that has things like live parsing, refactoring, smart code completion, hierarchy, members, e.g. |
| 22:00.29 | Primer | I know someone here was working on one for Idea |
| 22:00.37 | Primer | or was it #wowace? |
| 22:00.55 | durcyn | it's sylvanaar, and i linked it five minutes ago |
| 22:01.14 | Primer | right |
| 22:01.18 | Primer | I thought it was him |
| 22:01.22 | Primer | just wasn't sure |
| 22:02.03 | xyphoid | anyone done much armory api stuff? is there any sneaky way to get out of the achievement list api whether they're faction-only? |
| 22:02.53 | xyphoid | i guess parsing wowhead is the alternative |
| 22:03.11 | Vladinator | or dbc |
| 22:03.26 | Dagmar | Ah just use sed. |
| 22:03.33 | Vladinator | the Faction.dbc contains all he info |
| 22:03.37 | Vladinator | sed? |
| 22:04.05 | TC-Work | yes, sed |
| 22:04.13 | Vladinator | ~google sed |
| 22:04.16 | TC-Work | an amazing bundle of awesome |
| 22:04.44 | Vladinator | aha |
| 22:04.47 | Vladinator | googled it |
| 22:04.53 | xyphoid | ta, didn't even think about using the client |
| 22:05.37 | nicoli_s | the dbc files have a ton of info |
| 22:05.49 | nicoli_s | and its where wowhead and other dbs get some of their info |
| 22:06.02 | Vladinator | more like 90% :P |
| 22:08.42 | *** join/#wowuidev d87_ (~x@l49-96-195.cn.ru) |
| 22:09.10 | nicoli_s | nah its not 90% wdbs and adbs are important too |
| 22:09.11 | nicoli_s | plus lua |
| 22:09.31 | nicoli_s | <- has been making wow dbs since it was in early beta |
| 22:16.07 | Vladinator | could you help me out? I am trying to make a DBC parser, binary to data structure. any kind of sources would be nice, I still haven't properly learnedh ow to work with binary data :( |
| 22:16.51 | TC-Work | http://www.joystiq.com/2012/08/13/handsome-jack-taunts-the-vault-hunters-in-this-borderlands-2-tra/ wee, I'm about 50% of the game capture material in that video |
| 22:17.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@pool-173-62-95-230.pghkny.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:17.04 | nicoli_s | Vladinator:sure |
| 22:17.19 | nicoli_s | http://www.pxr.dk/wowdev/wiki/index.php?title=Category:DBC |
| 22:18.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Kodiack (~Colton@96-42-240-206.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 22:18.42 | Gnarfoz | reinvent the wheel? :P or is Adys's pywdbc...thingy not usable |
| 22:19.00 | Vladinator | are all entries null separated? like both cols and rows? |
| 22:19.09 | Adys | Gnarfoz: its not too up to date |
| 22:19.20 | Adys | but the dbc parsing logic should be ok |
| 22:19.24 | Adys | its the structures that are missing |
| 22:19.27 | Gnarfoz | he could contribute some updates <: |
| 22:19.40 | Gnarfoz | time better spent than starting from 0, hehe |
| 22:19.55 | alestane | Surviving your first day alright, Unkle? |
| 22:19.58 | Adys | i actually worked on some of it recently |
| 22:20.02 | Adys | mostly mfil-related |
| 22:20.16 | Stanzilla | milf related? |
| 22:20.21 | Adys | yea that |
| 22:20.23 | Adys | Vladinator: https://github.com/Adys/pywow/blob/master/wdbc/dbc.py |
| 22:20.24 | Adys | hf |
| 22:20.39 | Vladinator | :P |
| 22:20.41 | Vladinator | thanks |
| 22:21.32 | Gnarfoz | milf related wow tools |
| 22:21.37 | Corgan | licks Adys |
| 22:21.45 | Gnarfoz | yeah, there's quite some mums playing this game :P |
| 22:21.50 | Adys | hm |
| 22:21.51 | Adys | https://github.com/Adys/python-mfil |
| 22:21.54 | Adys | oh right |
| 22:22.55 | Vladinator | some basics, when it says Integer 4 bytes it's easy, but a Integer no bytes number is then depending on the system, like 32 vs 64 bit or always Integer is 8? |
| 22:23.22 | cbreak | there are integers of varying sizes |
| 22:23.26 | Vladinator | ye |
| 22:23.29 | cbreak | 8 bit, 16 bit, 32 bit, 64 bit |
| 22:23.33 | Vladinator | but the documentation here says "Integer" :P |
| 22:23.38 | Vladinator | assuming it falls back to some default |
| 22:23.40 | Corgan | oh nice adys, you updated your mobile auth thing to use the restore code? |
| 22:23.51 | Adys | Corgan: aye a couple months ago |
| 22:23.54 | cbreak | there are even some big integer data structures of arbitrarily high bit count |
| 22:24.23 | Corgan | I remember checking it out cause I ported that thing over to ruby |
| 22:24.24 | Adys | Vladinator: all ints are 32 bit in dbc files |
| 22:24.30 | Corgan | wasn't able to get the restore code thing to work |
| 22:24.36 | Gnarfoz | Antiarc: is that restore-code thingy in your auth app, too? |
| 22:24.37 | Corgan | I'll have to look at it |
| 22:24.40 | Adys | Corgan: its pretty simple |
| 22:24.45 | Corgan | I'm sure |
| 22:24.56 | Adys | lemme check |
| 22:25.02 | Vladinator | quickie: what is auth restore code and how does it work/help? |
| 22:25.05 | Corgan | wasn't sure what the problem was, cause I swear I had all the shit done right |
| 22:25.10 | Gnarfoz | (what is it, even?! :D I've been using the same physical authenticator for years, I'm out of the loop on the mobile ones) |
| 22:25.27 | Adys | Corgan: https://github.com/Adys/python-bna/commit/6c3013300b37228e76387770ed0b6fa8bf4e76db |
| 22:25.31 | Adys | this is the commit you want |
| 22:25.58 | Adys | Gnarfoz, Vladinator: restore codes are a feature in the mobile authenticator that lets you import/export authenticators basically |
| 22:26.13 | Adys | % bna --restore-code US120724434835 |
| 22:26.14 | Adys | X0BYP1VJFM |
| 22:26.24 | Vladinator | it bakes the serial and secret into one code I take it |
| 22:26.37 | Corgan | thanks adys |
| 22:26.38 | Adys | no you still need the serial |
| 22:27.14 | Gnarfoz | I see, something you put in a safe to be able to recreate the same authenticator if you lose your phone |
| 22:27.15 | Adys | Corgan: dont look too close at restoreCodeToBytes() it could be done better but the thing was doing my head in |
| 22:27.20 | Adys | yea Gnarfoz |
| 22:27.29 | Adys | incidentally its *really* useful for third party authenticators |
| 22:27.36 | Vladinator | I wrote my own version for my android based on some old sources I had in java, made it work with multiple auths at once and added a simple export import feature thingy. |
| 22:27.48 | Corgan | oh ffs adys |
| 22:27.49 | Gnarfoz | kind of bummed something like that doesn't exist for the physical ones :D I dread the day that it will die and I'll have to call customer service |
| 22:27.56 | Corgan | I think I did the subtraction part of it backwards |
| 22:27.58 | Gnarfoz | because there's no other way to get rid of it when it dies :D |
| 22:28.00 | Adys | % bna --restore US120724434835 X0BYP1VJFM |
| 22:28.00 | Adys | Restored serial US-1207-2443-4835 |
| 22:28.34 | Adys | 545d81621efa57229041eb1e6ac630df4f53a426 |
| 22:28.35 | Adys | success |
| 22:28.58 | Gnarfoz | well, at least it looks cool. |
| 22:28.58 | Gnarfoz | ;p |
| 22:29.08 | Gnarfoz | should turn the terminal font green. |
| 22:29.40 | Gnarfoz | nuking my Steamwheedle rep for fun and profit... yeah |
| 22:29.54 | Vladinator | all dbc data is signed or unsigned? I take it unsigned to save space? |
| 22:30.20 | Adys | some is signed, some is unsigned |
| 22:30.23 | Adys | most is unsigned |
| 22:30.55 | Vladinator | hmm, ok. |
| 22:31.07 | Adys | Vladinator: what language are you doing this in? |
| 22:31.08 | Vladinator | I love when you make a data structure that varies, making it super easy to make parsers! :D |
| 22:31.18 | Vladinator | trying to do this in PHP this time around |
| 22:31.21 | Adys | urgh |
| 22:32.07 | Adys | Vladinator: good luck with varying data structures: https://raw.github.com/Adys/pywow/master/wdbc/structures/main.py |
| 22:32.09 | cbreak | people still start new projects with that crappy language? |
| 22:32.23 | cbreak | I guess some never learn |
| 22:32.32 | Vladinator | :D |
| 22:32.44 | Adys | Vladinator: why would you do this in php? |
| 22:32.50 | Gnarfoz | because it can be done! |
| 22:33.00 | Gnarfoz | all the reason anyone needs ;D |
| 22:33.04 | Vladinator | why wouldn't I want to perhaps do it in PHP? |
| 22:33.10 | cbreak | it could also be done in x86-64 asm |
| 22:33.20 | Gnarfoz | indeed. and in brainfuck, whitespace or Ook. |
| 22:33.34 | Primer | Vladinator: are you building a web facing front end? If so, I'd say PHP is a valid choice |
| 22:33.35 | Gnarfoz | don't hate the language, hate the coder ;p |
| 22:33.38 | Adys | Vladinator: well first of all because it's not the appropriate tool for this job |
| 22:33.50 | cbreak | something as insecure as php web facin? |
| 22:33.55 | cbreak | crazy |
| 22:33.57 | Gnarfoz | insecure? |
| 22:33.58 | Primer | please |
| 22:33.58 | Gnarfoz | what |
| 22:34.03 | Primer | that's just hate talk |
| 22:34.07 | Vladinator | here we go again. |
| 22:34.16 | Adys | Vladinator: what *are* you trying to achieve in the end? |
| 22:34.17 | Vladinator | This is like religion only nerdier. |
| 22:34.46 | Gnarfoz | it's just another interpreted language, nobody cares if you like it ;p |
| 22:34.48 | Vladinator | Class for parsing DBC in PHP. At least lets me do some web end stuff with it if I want to. |
| 22:34.59 | Adys | it's not "like religion" |
| 22:35.04 | Adys | there are good reasons not to use php |
| 22:35.05 | Primer | what is DBC? |
| 22:35.11 | Adys | there are good reasons not to use plenty of languages |
| 22:35.20 | Adys | and im 100% *for* language diversity |
| 22:35.22 | Vladinator | I mean't it fires up discussions like trying to convert someone to another religion, i.e. trying to make someoen code in a certain language instead of another. :P |
| 22:35.33 | Adys | its not about converting anybody |
| 22:35.36 | Primer | like...significant whitespace in python! |
| 22:35.47 | Adys | its about avoiding awful practices |
| 22:36.00 | Adys | and Primer, no, php is not "the proper tool" for web stuff |
| 22:36.00 | Vladinator | Awful depends on perspective. |
| 22:36.11 | Gnarfoz | I hope you're not going to say "using php is an awful practice" :P |
| 22:36.13 | Adys | php is "the proper tool" for "I want a quick & dirty dynamic web page and I dont know how to program" |
| 22:36.35 | Adys | which is why its gotten its popularity in the first place |
| 22:36.37 | Primer | no, that's just the stigma |
| 22:36.49 | Adys | with good reasons. |
| 22:36.50 | Vladinator | I could make it in Java if it helps but it just takes longer and I don't have a Java webserver running either. |
| 22:36.56 | Gnarfoz | no, with old reasons |
| 22:37.39 | Adys | Vladinator: you could make it in python, or ruby, or node.js - those are just as fast and are miles ahead with regards to overall decency |
| 22:37.48 | Gnarfoz | php got popular when all this python, ruby and whatever stuff didn't have 5 people using it outside of the authors of the language. it *did* evolve further since then, ;-) |
| 22:37.51 | Gnarfoz | node.js omg :D |
| 22:37.59 | Gnarfoz | YES please program your tool in JS |
| 22:38.01 | Adys | Gnarfoz: yeah I hate node.js |
| 22:38.07 | Adys | but its still better than php |
| 22:38.08 | Gnarfoz | talking about "the proper tool" 2 minutes ago |
| 22:38.12 | Gnarfoz | I'm off to bed xD |
| 22:38.25 | Adys | Gnarfoz: obviously node.js is not the proper tool for this |
| 22:38.26 | cbreak | there are not many that are worse than php |
| 22:38.33 | Vladinator | I like websites because I can easily "show others" them, that's how I started. |
| 22:38.37 | cbreak | that language is not even self-consistent |
| 22:38.38 | Adys | Gnarfoz: I mentioned it because Vladinator mentioned not having a web server running |
| 22:38.54 | Adys | Vladinator: fyi i started with php |
| 22:38.59 | Vladinator | I have Apache2 with PHP, but not Java, Python, e.g. |
| 22:38.59 | Adys | in fact, plenty in this channel did |
| 22:39.12 | Adys | Vladinator: you have python - mod_wsgi is builtin to apache |
| 22:39.30 | Vladinator | Haven't tried it actually, hmm. |
| 22:39.35 | Gnarfoz | having mod_wsgi does not a python-enabled server make |
| 22:39.40 | Adys | and dont quote me on that but i believe ruby uses mod_wsgi |
| 22:39.44 | Adys | Gnarfoz: yea it does |
| 22:39.51 | Primer | sure, PHP has its faults, but these are mostly the inconsistencies cbreak mentioned, like one array function taking arguments in one order, and another array function taking them in another |
| 22:39.53 | Gnarfoz | no? since you can just as well simply NOT have python installed! |
| 22:39.53 | Gnarfoz | :p |
| 22:40.19 | Gnarfoz | Primer: hasn't that been cleaned up in 5.4? thought that was one of the backwards incompatible changes |
| 22:40.28 | Primer | Gnarfoz: I can only hope |
| 22:40.36 | Vladinator | This is funny because it's not the first time I've started a talk where people say PHP is a bad practice, insecure, e.g. ^_^ |
| 22:40.36 | Gnarfoz | hope is for 6.0 now |
| 22:40.37 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 22:40.42 | Primer | I've contended that PHP should break backwards compatibility for a long time now |
| 22:40.49 | Primer | and fix these inconsistencies |
| 22:40.52 | cbreak | http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ has plenty of points, maybe you agree with some |
| 22:40.53 | Adys | Vladinator: It has nothing to do with that |
| 22:41.14 | Adys | yes, php has horrible inconsistencies, glaring security holes every day and what not |
| 22:41.17 | cbreak | Vladinator: maybe that's ... because it is insecure :) |
| 22:41.24 | Adys | and yeah it also comes with a plethora of badware that has its own holes too |
| 22:41.50 | Adys | but above all, php teaches some awful programming techniques which tend to stay with you |
| 22:42.03 | Adys | and as i said, plenty in this channel can relate on that because they too started with php |
| 22:42.24 | neutronimity | What language should newcomers start with? |
| 22:42.31 | Adys | depends |
| 22:42.37 | cbreak | what direction do they want to go? |
| 22:42.37 | Gnarfoz | whee, 200/3000 neutral bloodsail :F only 43643646 to go |
| 22:42.45 | Vladinator | You can tell a person that fire burns a million times and they won't believe you until they experienced it first hand. Same applies on programming languages -if you get my metaphor. |
| 22:42.46 | cbreak | some assembler if they want to go into EE |
| 22:42.57 | cbreak | maybe some small script language if they want to go into more higher level |
| 22:42.58 | Adys | Vladinator: you won't get burned by what i mentioned |
| 22:43.04 | cbreak | like Lua, JavaScript, Python... |
| 22:43.06 | Adys | not until you actually move away from php |
| 22:43.14 | Gnarfoz | cbreak: ...php... |
| 22:43.16 | Gnarfoz | ;P |
| 22:43.17 | cbreak | if you're a sysadmin, a shell scripting language can't hurt |
| 22:43.18 | Vladinator | I've done Java Python and some C if that helps. |
| 22:43.22 | cbreak | Gnarfoz: nah, php is worthless |
| 22:43.30 | cbreak | it doesn't teach you anything that others won't teach |
| 22:43.31 | neutronimity | I like JavaScript :) well, at least I know some |
| 22:43.34 | Adys | neutronimity: C is the best choice if you are talking about someone who is hard into CS and whom you know will keep at it |
| 22:43.35 | Gnarfoz | it's just another script language that could go in that list |
| 22:43.36 | cbreak | apart from bad habits |
| 22:43.54 | Adys | neutronimity: for actually teaching basic programming, Lua is pretty awesome |
| 22:43.54 | neutronimity | All right! |
| 22:44.12 | Adys | neutronimity: I'd recommend python or lua to most. |
| 22:44.37 | Adys | Not only because they're good languages to start with, but because you'll still be using them regularly in your lifetime |
| 22:44.40 | Primer | Why not perl? |
| 22:44.45 | neutronimity | Nice :) Stupid university didn't offer me anything like that :p I am in a programming style course that has Java as studying language, and I haven't even learned |
| 22:44.49 | Gnarfoz | to try to point out an actual technical reason php might annoy you while trying to do this kind of data mangling: typing |
| 22:44.58 | Adys | Primer: Because .. god, do I really need to explain why not perl? |
| 22:45.07 | Adys | Why not shell while you're at it |
| 22:45.14 | cbreak | neutronimity: java isn't too bad. |
| 22:45.23 | cbreak | you can learn OOP concepts with it somewhat |
| 22:45.39 | Adys | neutronimity: java is "ok", it does tend to teach you some horrible practices but nothing that cant be worked on |
| 22:45.39 | Gnarfoz | if you think PHP won't get "used regularilyin his lifetime", you're delusional |
| 22:45.40 | neutronimity | Yeah, I loved the refactoring section |
| 22:45.49 | Primer | Again, you're just biased |
| 22:46.05 | Adys | Gnarfoz: if you get a job as a php dev obviously youll use php. |
| 22:46.14 | cbreak | I've not used php regularly in my lifetime, ever :) |
| 22:46.15 | Adys | Gnarfoz: if you get a job working on software, however, then no you wont use php |
| 22:46.15 | Vladinator | Adys: What language teaches the best practices? |
| 22:46.15 | Adys | ever |
| 22:46.24 | Adys | Vladinator: no single language does |
| 22:46.38 | cbreak | and I work as software engineer, so it's not due to lack of chances to program |
| 22:46.50 | Gnarfoz | and guess what: not much is written in python, lua, ruby where someone whose first choice for something is PHP would get a job |
| 22:47.16 | Adys | Vladinator: if you have C + python/ruby + lua + js + a lisp dialect in your toolbelt, you are likely to be objectively good at programming |
| 22:47.23 | Gnarfoz | Adys: define "software" :P I doubt that's something where python would be used, either. more likely Java, or C? |
| 22:47.39 | Adys | Gnarfoz: python and lua are very generic languages |
| 22:47.52 | cbreak | lua's great for embedding |
| 22:47.53 | Vladinator | I feel a little good now because I've done C, Python, lua, JS so that's most of the list. ^^ |
| 22:47.58 | Adys | lua because it's embedded all over the place and python because it's used in both web and desktop |
| 22:47.59 | Gnarfoz | sure, and yet, you won't see existing code in it at 99% of companies you'll probably work at |
| 22:48.00 | cbreak | python's great for making small scripts with |
| 22:48.08 | Gnarfoz | "all over the place" is a gross exaggeration |
| 22:48.31 | cbreak | look at professional applications |
| 22:48.40 | cbreak | it's either python or lua, or something custom |
| 22:48.44 | cbreak | php? no way. |
| 22:48.48 | Adys | Gnarfoz: If you work for a solid company, you're actually very likely to see python; most use them somewhere |
| 22:48.49 | Corgan | Thanks Adys, got it working |
| 22:48.49 | Gnarfoz | haha what |
| 22:48.52 | Corgan | ^_^ |
| 22:48.54 | Gnarfoz | "it's either python or lua" |
| 22:48.55 | Gnarfoz | get out |
| 22:48.57 | Adys | Corgan: yw, what was the problem? |
| 22:48.57 | cbreak | maya, nuke, python |
| 22:49.02 | cbreak | lightroom, lua |
| 22:49.10 | Corgan | two things |
| 22:49.16 | Gnarfoz | lightroom, WRITTEN in Lua? I doubt that. |
| 22:49.19 | cbreak | no |
| 22:49.22 | End_ | for embedding scripting, yeah python and lua are very popular |
| 22:49.23 | cbreak | of course not |
| 22:49.28 | Gnarfoz | scriptable in lua? that's an entirely different thing |
| 22:49.33 | Corgan | my restore code stuff was wrong, the -= stuff was in the wrong order |
| 22:49.34 | cbreak | it uses it as scripting language |
| 22:49.35 | Adys | Gnarfoz: irrelevant |
| 22:49.36 | Corgan | and... |
| 22:49.42 | Corgan | mac = OpenSSL::HMAC.digest(OpenSSL::Digest::Digest.new('sha1'), restore_code, serial+challenge) |
| 22:49.46 | Adys | Gnarfoz: what are you most likely to do, work ON lightroom or work WITH lightroom? |
| 22:49.48 | Corgan | I had the arguments backwards |
| 22:49.49 | Corgan | ^_^ |
| 22:50.02 | Gnarfoz | Adys: if you're working /with/ lightroom, are you a programmer? |
| 22:50.23 | Adys | Gnarfoz: if you're working at a company that uses lightroom, your skills may be needed for writing lightroom scripts |
| 22:50.29 | Adys | i had the same experience with 3ds max |
| 22:50.30 | cbreak | if you program for lightroom, then you are. |
| 22:50.31 | Vladinator | Can't we all just agree that all the languages mentioned have their potential but it depends on the environment and purpose? No language inherently gives you bad coding practice, stricktly speaking you don't learn the good practice until you learned multiple languages, it's how the evolution goes. |
| 22:50.45 | cbreak | we don't use lightroom where I work at to my knowledge |
| 22:50.50 | Adys | Vladinator: "No language inherently gives you bad coding practice" |
| 22:50.51 | cbreak | but nuke and maya are used |
| 22:50.53 | Adys | Vladinator: yes, there are |
| 22:50.59 | Adys | Vladinator: it's easy as fuck to write a programming language |
| 22:51.08 | cbreak | and there, scripting is a rather powerful tool |
| 22:51.29 | Adys | Vladinator: Just like its easy as fuck to write a painting. Not every painting is good art, and not every language teaches good practices |
| 22:51.47 | Gnarfoz | while you're talking about paintings |
| 22:51.48 | Gnarfoz | https://plus.google.com/photos/110793141402106874566/albums/5766112771002444865/5766112770672648578 |
| 22:51.54 | Gnarfoz | I'll just leave that here and sign out ;p |
| 22:52.13 | Adys | Gnarfoz: Regardless, lua and python are used in a lot of places, while php is outsourced |
| 22:52.18 | cbreak | maybe your real job is bad :) |
| 22:52.42 | cbreak | the main workload in languages where I work is C++ |
| 22:52.52 | cbreak | python is also used a bit |
| 22:52.53 | Adys | Gnarfoz: I work freelance, and ive seen how bad it is for php developers on freelance sites |
| 22:53.13 | cbreak | some niche languages like glsl, CUDA and so on serve special purposes |
| 22:53.41 | cbreak | php? Was used for a major hack which caused us problems until it was ripped out and replaced with something less bad. |
| 22:54.19 | Adys | Gnarfoz: My point is, as a software developer, you're not likely to use php. When it is used, its outsourced to india, and its usually for a small project. There are "real websites" that use php but those either die out or move away from php. |
| 22:54.33 | Adys | Facebook is the only exception to the lot and it too is moving away from php |
| 22:54.33 | Gnarfoz | yessss |
| 22:54.34 | Gnarfoz | india |
| 22:55.05 | cbreak | Adys: they are investing millions in keeping their hacks alive |
| 22:55.09 | Adys | Yeah |
| 22:55.10 | Gnarfoz | well, maybe all 5 of you found the perfect job where no shitty legacy code (in /whatever/ language) exists. and now you're wearing your rose-tinted glasses and suddenly "nobody would do that" ;) |
| 22:55.21 | cbreak | last I heard they even wrote their own php compiler |
| 22:55.22 | Adys | Gnarfoz: It's not that hard. |
| 22:55.29 | Gnarfoz | I doubt you had the same perspective when you started out |
| 22:55.30 | cbreak | and an interpreter for it for debugging |
| 22:55.39 | cbreak | and then some other compiler because the interpreter was too slow |
| 22:55.51 | Gnarfoz | try remembering a bit back, not everyone has been a professional programmer for X years, perspectives differ |
| 22:56.01 | cbreak | Gnarfoz: all the legacy code here is in C++ |
| 22:56.04 | Esamynn|work | Adys: wikipedia? |
| 22:56.17 | Adys | Gnarfoz: Actually.. I started out by getting a job without even looking for it. By the time I left that job, it took me all of two weeks to get a new one |
| 22:56.19 | cbreak | some of it is quite nasty |
| 22:56.23 | xyphoid | there is a hell of a lot of php work out there, enh |
| 22:56.24 | Adys | Gnarfoz: and they pay *really* fucking well |
| 22:56.29 | xyphoid | sure, you might not want to do it |
| 22:56.34 | Gnarfoz | (I'm not even a programmer at all, it's just all the excited language bashing that gets me) |
| 22:56.39 | Adys | Esamynn|work: mediawiki*; fair point, yes |
| 22:56.50 | Adys | Esamynn|work: but like facebook they invest quite a bit in keeping hacks alive |
| 22:57.10 | Esamynn|work | Gallery 2/3 ? |
| 22:57.16 | Adys | I dont even know what that is |
| 22:57.27 | Adys | but yes, there is php software out there |
| 22:57.33 | Gnarfoz | *a lot of it* |
| 22:57.36 | Adys | but you're not likely to work *on* it |
| 22:57.37 | Esamynn|work | http://gallery.menalto.com/ |
| 22:57.40 | cbreak | surprise... |
| 22:57.49 | Adys | you're not likely to work *on* vbullettin, *on* mediawiki |
| 22:57.59 | Esamynn|work | shrugs |
| 22:57.59 | Adys | and you're not likely to get a full time job at developing plugins for them |
| 22:58.07 | cbreak | no one said php was not popular |
| 22:58.14 | cbreak | we just say it's crap. :) |
| 22:58.19 | Esamynn|work | lol |
| 22:58.30 | Adys | actually I say it's crap *and* that you won't find a solid job with it |
| 22:58.31 | Esamynn|work | haven't not done much web development, I really wouldn't know |
| 22:58.40 | Primer | I have a solid job with it |
| 22:58.42 | Esamynn|work | s/haven't/having/ |
| 22:58.52 | Primer | for the past 11 years, in fact |
| 22:58.54 | Adys | Primer: since when? |
| 22:58.55 | xyphoid | i have a solid job with it |
| 22:58.56 | Adys | yeah exactly |
| 22:59.04 | Adys | im talking *today* |
| 22:59.06 | Gnarfoz | maybe scroll back a bit - this was not about jobs at all in the beginning. it was just plain and simple "php is bad" without reasoning. :P |
| 22:59.13 | xyphoid | php is shitty but there is a huge amount of legacy stuff out there |
| 22:59.19 | Primer | this is going back 2 separate jobs though |
| 22:59.21 | Gnarfoz | he still has the job today ;) |
| 22:59.29 | Primer | 8 + 3 |
| 22:59.34 | Adys | Gnarfoz: ill be honest |
| 22:59.41 | cbreak | Gnarfoz: just because you don't want to see the reason that doesn't mean it doesn't exist |
| 22:59.50 | Adys | Gnarfoz: I have friends in mind who work with php as a day job because they got their job a long time ago |
| 22:59.51 | Primer | In this latest job I'm actually taking code OUT of java...and re-writing it in PHP :) |
| 22:59.54 | TC-Work | I may have missed it in the wall of text, but what would you replace php with for webdev? |
| 23:00.00 | cbreak | I gave you a link to a page that details a ton of them |
| 23:00.08 | Adys | Gnarfoz: but when I think about it, I had a lot more friends in that situation 1-2 years ago |
| 23:00.11 | Esamynn|work | php reminds me of perl, which I once heard called a "write-only" language |
| 23:00.15 | Gnarfoz | I know that page, I'm not the one trying to write a dbc parser here |
| 23:00.16 | Adys | heh |
| 23:00.18 | Vladinator | I can't "see" the reason because it's based on experience and all I see is statements but I don't see the proof kind of. :( |
| 23:00.26 | Adys | TC-Work: python/ruby |
| 23:00.44 | Primer | Nothing wrong with perl |
| 23:00.49 | Esamynn|work | ... |
| 23:00.53 | Esamynn|work | ~whaleslap Primer |
| 23:00.53 | purl | ACTION beats Primer upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 23:00.55 | Adys | from the guy who says nothing wrong with php |
| 23:00.57 | Vladinator | I bet someone could find something bad to say about perl :P |
| 23:00.58 | cbreak | Vladinator: start reading then :) |
| 23:01.05 | Primer | of course |
| 23:01.14 | Adys | Vladinator: you wont "see" the reason until you try it yourself |
| 23:01.35 | Gnarfoz | Adys: haha! but everyone says he should just skip PHP |
| 23:01.37 | Vladinator | I tabbed out for a moment and suddenly we talked about jobs and that became a point on the debate. |
| 23:01.39 | Gnarfoz | how could he see for himself? :P |
| 23:01.52 | Adys | Gnarfoz: he's not skipping php, he already knows php |
| 23:02.05 | Adys | Gnarfoz: php is not a language worth learning, but i never said it was worth *skipping* |
| 23:02.15 | Adys | Gnarfoz: its dangerous to learn as first language |
| 23:02.16 | Gnarfoz | how can you do one without the other |
| 23:02.19 | TC-Work | ^ |
| 23:02.22 | Adys | uh |
| 23:02.29 | Adys | what i meant was |
| 23:02.45 | Adys | its not worth going out of your way to learn it, but its not worth going out of your way to skip it either |
| 23:02.46 | Esamynn|work | readies the fail stick |
| 23:03.04 | Adys | as you said yourself, theres plenty of legacy php stuff out there |
| 23:03.17 | Adys | its worth knowing *why* php is shit by first-hand experience and what real php code looks like |
| 23:03.22 | Gnarfoz | and in shops where there's a lot of that, even new stuff gets done in php :| |
| 23:03.36 | Adys | usually because of legacy |
| 23:03.40 | Adys | eg. libraries and stuff |
| 23:03.45 | Adys | + "we have a guy he knows php" |
| 23:03.52 | Gnarfoz | oh I could probably just do find /srv/www -iname '*.php' -print and it would all be crap :D |
| 23:04.26 | Gnarfoz | maybe except the stuff the new guys did who (*gasp*) suggested they do their new project in python |
| 23:04.39 | Gnarfoz | "but omg then we're dependent on you, nobody else here knows python" :D |
| 23:04.48 | Adys | what |
| 23:05.04 | Gnarfoz | yeah, luckily, not my problem to point out to them that they have 2 programmers worth their salt and 5 people who know nothing except php |
| 23:05.06 | Esamynn|work | waits for Adys to explode |
| 23:05.06 | xyphoid | yeah, if you have 300 php apps on your php cluster, running 1 site in ruby may not be a good choice |
| 23:05.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~torhal@c-71-207-224-241.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 23:05.14 | Adys | my current 3-month contract is for a company thats expressely switching away from php to a django framework because they found its easier to find good python programmers |
| 23:05.24 | Adys | and its not the first time i see that |
| 23:05.28 | Adys | have you SEEN that for php? |
| 23:05.31 | Gnarfoz | your COMPANY has a policy on what programming language to use |
| 23:05.39 | Adys | no, they dont |
| 23:05.44 | Adys | we work with an erlang guy |
| 23:06.48 | cbreak | oh, php... funny language... |
| 23:06.55 | Adys | but theres no such thing as "we're dependent on you nobody knows python" |
| 23:07.07 | Adys | but hey |
| 23:07.13 | Adys | stick to php all you want |
| 23:07.18 | Gnarfoz | whatever, I was just pointing out why our new stuff is also written in PHP (and I doubt we're alone with this): it's a company that has an IT department, not a programming company |
| 23:07.19 | Esamynn|work | heaven forbid someone learn a new language |
| 23:07.39 | Gnarfoz | Esamynn|work: or hire new people?! :D |
| 23:07.40 | Vladinator | I wrote something long but by this point I don't wanna post it, I am afraid I will be bitten or something. |
| 23:07.48 | Esamynn|work | Gnarfoz: pfft |
| 23:07.55 | TC-Work | Adys: without using a framework the only way i can see using python for web is to embed html, which is rather ugly |
| 23:07.59 | TC-Work | i know, i did it |
| 23:08.00 | Esamynn|work | Vladinator: don't be shy |
| 23:08.01 | Adys | Vladinator: nothing bad about being bitten |
| 23:08.01 | Gnarfoz | Vladinator: unless someone invites the stabbing in the face over the internet device, you're safe |
| 23:08.03 | Esamynn|work | we don't bite... hard |
| 23:08.14 | Gnarfoz | (http://bash.org/?4281) |
| 23:08.26 | xyphoid | anything apart from php you're going to be using a standard framework for doing web stuff |
| 23:08.35 | xyphoid | because php has that equivalent built in |
| 23:08.36 | Adys | TC-Work: there are light solutions for this |
| 23:08.38 | xyphoid | but that's fine |
| 23:08.40 | Adys | TC-Work: eg. tornado |
| 23:08.45 | Adys | (which happens to be a facebook project) |
| 23:08.52 | cbreak | 123 == "123foo", "123" != "123foo", "133" == "0133", 133 != 0133 |
| 23:09.26 | Esamynn|work | O_o |
| 23:09.28 | Gnarfoz | strongly typed? no thanks ;) |
| 23:09.32 | Adys | wow |
| 23:09.36 | TC-Work | Adys: so a lib as opposed to a framework? |
| 23:09.36 | Gnarfoz | (at least that's what someone must have thought) |
| 23:09.38 | cbreak | Gnarfoz: more like not typed |
| 23:09.52 | Gnarfoz | cbreak: indeed. it's an official feature! :D |
| 23:09.52 | Adys | you think strongly typed is "whatever the fuck == whatever else"? |
| 23:10.00 | Adys | er |
| 23:10.04 | cbreak | Gnarfoz: .... morons... |
| 23:10.16 | Adys | != i meant, w/e |
| 23:10.19 | Gnarfoz | cbreak: no, "people who had different goals than me" |
| 23:10.32 | Adys | TC-Work: obviously, raw libless python is not going to work out well with web tech for the simple reason that python, unlike php, doesn't consider web as "a core feature" |
| 23:10.36 | Gnarfoz | that they stumbled and broke both their legs along the way is another matter :D |
| 23:10.43 | cbreak | like getting random comparison results based on the content of what they compare |
| 23:10.53 | Adys | TC-Work: there are excellent frameworks for both ruby and python, but there are also lighter libs, yes |
| 23:11.00 | Gnarfoz | I doubt it's actually random, it should be deterministic :D |
| 23:11.05 | Vladinator | This was a response to the comment at 01:02:27. I learned PHP first when I was young, sure I wrote really horrible code back then, and I do now too sometimes (language independent), but I haven't felt I got a worse start compared to other students that I worked with in university that started with C, Java or Python right of the bat. In some cases I was even more knowledgable than them because I had experience with *any* language and t |
| 23:11.11 | Vladinator | I warned you earlier. |
| 23:11.26 | cbreak | Gnarfoz: http://phpsadness.com/sad/47 |
| 23:11.33 | Gnarfoz | also, you got cut off by the IRC character limit per message, Vladinator |
| 23:11.43 | Gnarfoz | (and your client seems unaware of it and let you get cut off. :() |
| 23:11.44 | Vladinator | It was 1329 chars, jeez. |
| 23:11.50 | Gnarfoz | /raw version |
| 23:11.52 | Esamynn|work | Vladinator: cut off at: "with *any* language and t" |
| 23:11.52 | Vladinator | What's the limit? |
| 23:12.02 | Adys | Vladinator: starting with php will most certainly give you a better start than starting with C |
| 23:12.20 | Gnarfoz | huh, it doesn't actually say in the version string anymore |
| 23:12.23 | cbreak | seems there's a length limit for string comparisons in php |
| 23:12.24 | Vladinator | with *any* language and they didnt. It doesn't mater what you start with, as long you are willing to learn, and by the time you get to your 4th language you'd seen enough to be at least an acceptable coder, what you learn in one language you bring over to the others. The order doesn't really mater, and job wise I don't think it hurts knowing more languages too, even if some are deprecated, it's still experience. |
| 23:12.26 | Vladinator | I wouldn't code a bank website in PHP, I wouldn't code it in C myself, I'd probably use a higher up language with a framework or something, usually it's easier and in many cases safer. Still I am sure you may find some safer frameworks for PHP too, but that's not the point, my point was don't think when someone says "I'll code this in PHP" as if they are against learning other things, or that they will never move |
| 23:12.33 | Vladinator | away from it, I certainly did so it ought to count for something in this debate. :P -- that's the missing parts. |
| 23:12.36 | Adys | Vladinator: with python, its arguable (but likely depending on how long ago it was) |
| 23:13.20 | Adys | Vladinator: i was arguing php was a bad language to start with because of *what* it teaches you |
| 23:13.47 | Vladinator | I grew out of a lot of my bad coding ways along the way. |
| 23:14.11 | Adys | apparently not, you're starting a new project in php |
| 23:14.12 | Adys | :D |
| 23:14.14 | Gnarfoz | would someone who stared programming in Lua recognize those bad things for what they are, though? |
| 23:14.14 | Vladinator | I shiver when I look back at some of the stuff, I still shiver when I look back to what I wrote yesterday, but you learn new things all the time. |
| 23:14.27 | cbreak | Vladinator: have you seen that link? |
| 23:14.30 | cbreak | http://phpsadness.com/sad/47? |
| 23:14.42 | Adys | Gnarfoz: eventually yes |
| 23:14.55 | Gnarfoz | what does eventually mean |
| 23:14.59 | Adys | Gnarfoz: but im sure someone who moved away from php would too |
| 23:15.08 | Adys | Gnarfoz: eventually means "with sufficient knowledge" |
| 23:15.14 | Adys | obviously you wont just get it on day 3 |
| 23:15.16 | Gnarfoz | so, that's what Vladinator already did anyway |
| 23:15.21 | Adys | yea |
| 23:15.36 | Adys | im not arguing for vladinator's sake here |
| 23:15.49 | Adys | i was arguing about why "php is bad" is not a religious statement |
| 23:16.01 | Esamynn|work | Adys: of course it is :P |
| 23:16.10 | Esamynn|work | foolish mortal |
| 23:16.11 | Gnarfoz | and: da capo |
| 23:16.12 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 23:16.18 | Primer | People know drugs are bad, but they still do them. For some, it's about the devil they know |
| 23:16.50 | Adys | why it is both subjectively and objectively bad with regards to programming itself, and why it's not specifically good to learn despite its popularity (with regards to jobs) |
| 23:16.53 | Vladinator | The "==" problem, it works if you use "===" |
| 23:16.57 | Vladinator | About the PHP sadness part. |
| 23:16.59 | xyphoid | i think despite php having many crap things about it there are still perfectly valid reasons to do work in it |
| 23:17.12 | cbreak | Vladinator: continue to read :) |
| 23:17.12 | Vladinator | I agree that's a lame issue. :( |
| 23:17.27 | Adys | there are perfectly valid reasons to do drugs too, coming back to Primer's analogy |
| 23:17.39 | Primer | meh, I harp about PHP being bad all the time |
| 23:17.48 | cbreak | Vladinator: "For a more type-safe ==, we have ===. For a more type-safe <, we have… nothing. "123" < "0124", always, no matter what you do. Casting doesn’t help, either." |
| 23:17.59 | Primer | I face the problem of managing developers that know PHP...and not much else |
| 23:18.05 | Esamynn|work | dear lord |
| 23:18.35 | Gnarfoz | Primer: at least yours are managed by someone! :D |
| 23:18.41 | Primer | sure, they know java, but that just opens a whole new can of worms |
| 23:18.42 | Vladinator | cbreak: either I am blind or I don't see the quote on that article.. hmm |
| 23:18.42 | Adys | Esamynn|work: yes, servant? |
| 23:18.50 | Esamynn|work | ~lart Adys |
| 23:18.50 | purl | teaches Adys the basics, including how to RTM |
| 23:18.58 | Primer | Gnarfoz: I inherited a system of ~15 developers who were not managed |
| 23:19.00 | cbreak | Vladinator: that's in the first link I pasted |
| 23:19.12 | cbreak | NULL < -1, and NULL == 0 |
| 23:19.16 | cbreak | wth |
| 23:19.31 | Primer | the code is mostly java. I see this a lot: public static function foo (arg1, arg2, ..., arg15) |
| 23:19.41 | Adys | also |
| 23:19.49 | Adys | I wanted to elaborate on what I said earlier about node.js |
| 23:20.27 | Adys | I personally think it's an awful tool for many jobs it's used for, but it has what php had that made it popular: accessibility |
| 23:20.40 | Arrowmaster | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U7nYb3ts7w |
| 23:20.50 | Primer | So imagine a shitton of classes filled with static functions, all one-offs to do a single thing...used mostly just once in code, _maybe_ twice |
| 23:20.58 | cbreak | so NULL is smaller than -1, smaller than 1 but NOT smaller than 0 |
| 23:20.58 | Adys | people who started with php did so because it was easy to see, first hand, the results "oh cool I can display data the user gives me" |
| 23:21.12 | Adys | however those same people will know... php |
| 23:21.18 | Adys | and thats it until they pick up a new language |
| 23:21.39 | Vladinator | I started with it because I thought it was awesome that it could display data that dynamically changed based on the string query and not changing the html file. :D |
| 23:21.59 | Adys | starting with node.js teaches you javascript, which is used in a lot more places (its both embedded and used on the web *and* its syntax is reused by other ecmascript-based languages) |
| 23:22.03 | Gnarfoz | Vladinator: exactly the example Adys gave |
| 23:22.24 | Vladinator | Wasn't supposed to be an argument, just confirming what was said. :P |
| 23:22.35 | Esamynn|work | Primer: sooo, basically, they fail at OOO programming? |
| 23:22.39 | Gnarfoz | tbh, javascript only became bearably usable in the very recent past |
| 23:22.40 | Primer | recently did a big project in javascript... |
| 23:22.48 | Primer | Esamynn|work: yes |
| 23:23.06 | Esamynn|work | gee, they picked an awesome language then :P |
| 23:23.08 | Adys | Gnarfoz: wrt performance and web accessibility, yes |
| 23:23.16 | Adys | Gnarfoz: as a language its in the same place as it ever was |
| 23:23.18 | xyphoid | i think js has been awesome for a long time but the visibility of that has been low |
| 23:23.22 | Gnarfoz | of course |
| 23:23.24 | Primer | Esamynn|work: Just pointing out that crappy code can be done in any language |
| 23:23.41 | xyphoid | because so many people have encountered it in a flaky browser-specific context only |
| 23:23.42 | Esamynn|work | you won't get any argument from me, on that point |
| 23:23.49 | Vladinator | If you code PHP how you code C I think you'll do good, like using functions as strcmp instead of using the shortcut == to check for equality of strings, hehe. ^^ |
| 23:23.50 | Primer | and conversely, good code can be done in...many languages! PHP included! |
| 23:24.10 | Esamynn|work | and even PErl |
| 23:24.10 | Adys | Vladinator: php is a scripting language |
| 23:24.16 | Primer | Yes, even perl |
| 23:24.22 | Primer | perl was my first language |
| 23:24.23 | Adys | Vladinator: these are *exactly* the things you shouldnt have to worry about |
| 23:24.36 | Primer | well, technically it wasn't..basic and pascal were :) |
| 23:24.45 | Vladinator | I agree, but the issues are there, gotta just do the best out of it! :D |
| 23:24.46 | Primer | but I didn't ever earn any money writing either of those |
| 23:24.51 | Adys | Vladinator: being a good python/lua/ruby programmer and being a good C programmer are very different things |
| 23:24.59 | cbreak | Vladinator: C has a consistent standard |
| 23:25.07 | Primer | and consistent pitfalls |
| 23:25.19 | cbreak | php? doesn't seem like it |
| 23:25.27 | Adys | Primer: php is inconsistently bad, but consistently *worse* |
| 23:25.34 | cbreak | looks more like a franken language where they patched in crap just to keep it running |
| 23:25.38 | Primer | Adys: I agree |
| 23:25.38 | Esamynn|work | cbreak: for some definition of consistant |
| 23:25.53 | Gnarfoz | how can it be consistent, it WAS bad, and peeople wanted it to improve. so it's being changed over time. that's the opposite of consistency! :P |
| 23:25.56 | Primer | Adys: I know a few PHP developers. I give them grief all the time |
| 23:26.07 | Gnarfoz | (yeah yeah I know there's internal consistency, too and PHP has obvious problems with it, as your links point out) |
| 23:26.51 | cbreak | C also has the advantage that it is the systems language |
| 23:26.54 | xyphoid | giving people grief for what they work in is shitty |
| 23:27.07 | Adys | see one of the problems of php arguments is there are so many ways and reasons php is bad that the argument becomes a strawpuppet very fast |
| 23:27.08 | xyphoid | sure, if they claim PHP is the bestest go ahead |
| 23:27.17 | cbreak | every major language can interface to C |
| 23:27.26 | cbreak | every OS can interface to C |
| 23:27.29 | xyphoid | but pretty much everyone working with php can reel off as many problems with it as you want |
| 23:27.54 | Vladinator | By the way, what is being discussed now? :D |
| 23:28.06 | Esamynn|work | this is mainly because C is really only a small step above assembly |
| 23:28.07 | Gnarfoz | something vaguely programming related |
| 23:28.08 | Gnarfoz | ;) |
| 23:28.15 | Adys | Vladinator: unless you still wish to argue php is good for anything, not much |
| 23:28.43 | Adys | Vladinator: anyway, these are the reasons why i believe you're better off using something else for your dbc parser |
| 23:28.45 | Vladinator | Sounds very one sided. :3 |
| 23:28.49 | Esamynn|work | which has advantages and disadvantages, depending on what you are doing |
| 23:28.50 | Vladinator | Yeah. |
| 23:28.54 | Adys | Vladinator: bonus points if you pick a language you dont know |
| 23:29.02 | Esamynn|work | ^ |
| 23:30.46 | cbreak | T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM, haha |
| 23:31.02 | Adys | i remember that |
| 23:31.06 | Esamynn|work | ??? |
| 23:31.16 | Adys | its some :: error |
| 23:31.26 | Gnarfoz | double colon |
| 23:31.27 | cbreak | it's the php version of :: |
| 23:31.36 | cbreak | what the hell were they thinking... |
| 23:31.42 | Gnarfoz | it's not "the php version of" it's :: |
| 23:31.52 | Esamynn|work | cbreak: first mistake, you're assuming they were thinking |
| 23:32.04 | Gnarfoz | what's the type of :: in $otherlanguage |
| 23:32.12 | Adys | Parse error: syntax error, unexpected ')', expecting T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM |
| 23:32.12 | Adys | [edit] |
| 23:32.17 | nebula169 | they're greek, its double colon in greek |
| 23:32.18 | Adys | I love that. |
| 23:32.21 | cbreak | :: doesn't have a type in C++ |
| 23:32.22 | nebula169 | atleast i think its greek |
| 23:32.24 | Adys | nebula169: it most certainly isnt |
| 23:32.28 | Adys | nebula169: its hebrew |
| 23:32.28 | cbreak | it's syntax that's used by the parser |
| 23:32.29 | kd3 | hebrew says enwiki |
| 23:32.35 | nebula169 | ah, that was it |
| 23:32.51 | nebula169 | it is pretty silly it's still there |
| 23:32.55 | cbreak | (scope resolution operator) |
| 23:33.01 | Gnarfoz | so what does the parser say if it's expecting it? |
| 23:33.19 | cbreak | it doesn't expect it |
| 23:33.36 | kd3 | much like the spanish inquisition, it tends to creep up on it |
| 23:33.37 | cbreak | if you don't use it, the code means something else |
| 23:33.40 | Gnarfoz | well, PHP as an interpreted language, does, apparently, when it's missing where it should be |
| 23:33.47 | Corgan | Parse error: syntax error, unexpected ')', expecting T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM |
| 23:33.53 | cbreak | it should write :: |
| 23:33.54 | Gnarfoz | and it has a type, so... someone named it. that someone was hebrew :P |
| 23:33.57 | TC-Work | speaking of all this webdev sutff, i need a new webhost, any suggestions? |
| 23:34.04 | Corgan | php -r 'define("foo", "bar"); if (empty(foo)) echo "empty";' |
| 23:34.07 | Corgan | will throw that error |
| 23:34.17 | Corgan | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scope_resolution_operator#PHP |
| 23:34.30 | Gnarfoz | yeah, it's ages old -_- |
| 23:34.38 | Corgan | *shrug* |
| 23:34.50 | Corgan | ah |
| 23:34.51 | Corgan | Parse error: parse error, expecting `T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM' in Command line code on line 1 |
| 23:34.57 | Adys | nebula169: in greek it would look something like.. T_DIPLOKILON |
| 23:35.02 | Gnarfoz | apparently, old enough that some people in here forgot about it and now it's funny again :P |
| 23:35.11 | Adys | nebula169: i had to check the spelling for that |
| 23:35.22 | nebula169 | i just knew it was in the language of the zend guy that did it, just biffed on the language :p |
| 23:35.41 | Gnarfoz | if they just had more zen guys instead of zend guys |
| 23:35.46 | Gnarfoz | all would be fine |
| 23:35.46 | cbreak | greek is shorter, so it's better. |
| 23:36.07 | Adys | also diplokilon actually has a chance to tell you what its about |
| 23:36.12 | Vladinator | I think PHP is good for <insert what ever here and watch Adys reply> |
| 23:36.37 | Adys | Vladinator: I avoid trolls usually |
| 23:36.37 | Adys | so no |
| 23:36.50 | TC-Work | you talk to Fisker..... |
| 23:36.58 | Adys | I cyber with fisker |
| 23:37.00 | Adys | I dont talk to him |
| 23:37.11 | TC-Work | fair enough |
| 23:37.15 | Vladinator | Really this is the second time I start a debate when I mention PHP, it's like saying bettlejuice three times. |
| 23:37.21 | Adys | "When I studied abroad in Italy, I found a pizzeria in Venice that advertised "American style pizza." Turns out it was a pizza that was COVERED in french fries." |
| 23:37.26 | Primer | Vladinator: get used to it |
| 23:37.27 | Adys | I.. the.. I.. eh.. <sigh> |
| 23:37.44 | Esamynn|work | lol |
| 23:37.45 | nebula169 | wouldn't that be a french style pizza? |
| 23:38.01 | cbreak | french pizza is very much like italian pizza |
| 23:38.24 | Vladinator | If I were to say I wish to code a program that has a GUI and it resets file attributes, and I say I wanna do it in AutoIT, what would happen? |
| 23:38.46 | nebula169 | i'd say you're taking the php talk a little too personally |
| 23:38.52 | Adys | http://www.brobible.com/entertainment/slideshow/hat-seinfeld-would-be-today |
| 23:38.54 | Adys | lol |
| 23:39.12 | Adys | "George decides not to date anymore since Siri is nicer to him than any woman has ever been" |
| 23:39.15 | Adys | I could see that |
| 23:39.51 | Esamynn|work | it's been done on the Big Bang Theory |
| 23:40.04 | Adys | yeah |
| 23:40.08 | Adys | Google? What's "Google"? Frankly it sounds made up! |
| 23:40.29 | Vladinator | I'm not taking anything here personally, but I see others do like Adys, cbreak, Gnarfoz, among others. But that's because they got some practical experience, I got little of it so I just watch, chew my popcorn and learn from both sides as much as my brain can handle at this late hour. :) |
| 23:40.34 | Vladinator | ~wiki google |
| 23:40.51 | Vladinator | I think purl must be recoded a bit ;) |
| 23:41.07 | Gnarfoz | Adys: just because english didn't grab that particular word from hebrew ;-D |
| 23:41.07 | Gnarfoz | (as it were, english, mugging other languages in dark alleys since 850) |
| 23:41.14 | cbreak | oh, very fun: function foo(string $s) {} foo("hello world"); |
| 23:41.18 | cbreak | what's the error with that in php? |
| 23:41.35 | Adys | the two spaces? |
| 23:41.36 | cbreak | apparently it'd be "Argument 1 passed to foo() must be an instance of string, string given" |
| 23:41.47 | Adys | Error: OK |
| 23:41.52 | cbreak | ... |
| 23:43.05 | cbreak | if you have php installed you can even test it :/ |
| 23:43.08 | cbreak | php -r 'function foo(string $s) {} foo("hello world");' |
| 23:43.50 | Vladinator | It will say "Catchable fatal error: Argument 1 passed to foo() must be an instance of string, string given, called in..." |
| 23:44.58 | cbreak | how's that even an error? |
| 23:45.16 | Vladinator | usually you wouldn't add the string part before $s |
| 23:46.09 | Adys | http://i.imgur.com/FQJBY.jpg |
| 23:46.10 | Adys | yep. |
| 23:46.10 | Vladinator | you don't define what type a variable is, usually you check what it contains and do actions based on that, you can cast to string, but haven't used it like that in the function definition :P |
| 23:46.53 | TC-Work | Gnarfoz: it's not like there are many hebrew words used in english |
| 23:47.32 | Vladinator | actually you can use function defitinion like that to check for object types but probably a bug that using string does that, hehe. saw an example where he used a custom class instead of string and it worked |
| 23:47.46 | Vladinator | leftover from legacy or? |
| 23:47.56 | Vladinator | if someone knows it ought to be Gnarfoz |
| 23:48.11 | cbreak | Vladinator: nah. The reason is that there's nothing called string in php |
| 23:48.15 | cbreak | it's not a type |
| 23:48.31 | Vladinator | Hehe, I see, so it just throwsa funny looking error :P |
| 23:49.12 | Vladinator | NOOO! I hit ctrl+l and it cleared the log |
| 23:49.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaylin (~Kaylin@c-98-203-233-187.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 23:49.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Gnarfoz (smallbrain@irc.geektour.de) |
| 23:49.49 | Esamynn|work | ~laugh Vladinator |
| 23:49.49 | purl | ACTION laughs hysterically at Vladinator...ow! laughing so hard, it can't breathe... gasp...gasp...gasp.... ..... ... |
| 23:49.58 | Adys | Vladinator: what client are you using? |
| 23:50.02 | Vladinator | ~moon Esamynn|work |
| 23:50.02 | purl | ACTION drops his pants and shows Esamynn|work a full moon. Esamynn|work drops over dead at the sight. |
| 23:50.05 | Vladinator | Using pidgin |
| 23:50.07 | cbreak | "Function arguments with defaults can appear before function arguments without, even though the documentation points out that this is both weird and useless. (So why allow it?)" |
| 23:50.11 | Adys | Vladinator: uhg |
| 23:50.12 | Adys | Vladinator: http://quassel-irc.org/ |
| 23:50.24 | Vladinator | I got MSN on my Pidgin too :P |
| 23:50.29 | *** join/#wowuidev F16Gaming (F16Gaming@p6-691d-5e0c.10m.i.exo.me.uk) |
| 23:50.32 | Vladinator | Better than WLM |
| 23:50.38 | Adys | not saying stop using pidgi |
| 23:50.45 | Adys | just stop using pidgin *for irc* |
| 23:50.52 | Kaylin | pfft |
| 23:50.56 | Kaylin | I like pidgin on irc |
| 23:50.57 | Adys | seriously tho give quassel a try |
| 23:50.57 | Stanzilla | stop hating me Adys |
| 23:51.00 | Vladinator | It's easier having IRC on my Pidgin ^^ |
| 23:51.03 | TC-Work | <3 quassel |
| 23:51.15 | Vladinator | Pidgin already boots up for MSN, might as well boot up my irc channel here. |
| 23:51.29 | TC-Work | i use pidgin and quassel personally |
| 23:51.31 | Adys | everyone in this channel who hasnt should give quassel a try |
| 23:51.43 | TC-Work | pidgin doesnt have the needed options |
| 23:51.46 | TC-Work | for irc |
| 23:52.03 | Adys | its available for all platforms, is a solid irc client and comes with a builtin server |
| 23:52.08 | Adys | which is bloody amazing |
| 23:52.11 | Vladinator | I am content with the minimalistic style, but ought to watch not to type messages over 420 ish chars :D |
| 23:52.32 | Adys | connecting to this very quassel instance from my phone and my laptop at the same time |
| 23:52.42 | Adys | or closing quassel, reopening it and still having the backlog |
| 23:52.54 | Adys | and fuck bouncers/irssi/whatever |
| 23:53.03 | Vladinator | Got the backlog too but by mistake hit a hotkey that I will now unbind! lol |
| 23:53.20 | Adys | ctrl l is very useful in pidgin |
| 23:53.31 | Primer | meh, I just use the irssi proxy module |
| 23:53.35 | Vladinator | ctrl i or L? |
| 23:53.35 | Adys | it has this tendency of hogging memory like a dick hogs an anteater |
| 23:53.39 | Adys | L |
| 23:53.44 | Vladinator | :D |
| 23:53.59 | Primer | and I connect my clients to it...I usually have 3 concurrently connected clients, and I'm always Primer |
| 23:54.12 | Primer | not Primer_ or Primer__ or Primer__________ |
| 23:54.25 | Vladinator | I'm registered :3 |
| 23:56.03 | Vladinator | Adys and cbreak I hope I didn't make you think negatively of Gnarfoz about the PHP deal, since I started it and you had very different oppinions and all. |
| 23:56.24 | Adys | dont worry |
| 23:56.28 | Primer | plus it also serves as a proper irc client, as it uses irssi, which I have running under screen on my server |
| 23:56.35 | Adys | i thought negatively of Gnarfoz long before you came along |
| 23:56.56 | Vladinator | You shouldn't do that just because of what he believes. |
| 23:57.20 | Vladinator | If you dislike someone do it because they have a bad personality, not because they like and defend something you don't. :P |
| 23:57.20 | Adys | Vladinator: quassel comes with a sarcasm detector plugin |
| 23:57.24 | Adys | i highly recommend you enable it |
| 23:57.26 | Vladinator | Lol |
| 23:57.35 | Adys | </sarcasm> btw |
| 23:57.42 | Adys | see I'm being considerate! |
| 23:58.05 | Vladinator | You don't end tags like that, you use <sarcasm/> when starting and ending a html tag in one go, learn some html man.... |
| 23:58.21 | Esamynn|work | Vladinator: in general we all end as "friends" here, even after the largest "religious" wars =D |
| 23:58.23 | Adys | <tag/> is self-contained |
| 23:58.25 | Primer | the start tag was implied |
| 23:58.33 | Adys | it would imply the sarcasm is within the tag |
| 23:58.33 | Adys | like |
| 23:58.45 | Vladinator | If I was a browser I'd assume it was implied but I'd still give a warning in the log. :P |
| 23:58.46 | Adys | <sarcasm php is just so great/> |
| 23:59.07 | Vladinator | I think this is more valid <sarcasm>php is just so great</sarcasm> |
| 23:59.22 | Vladinator | or <sarcasm someattribute="php is just so great"/> |
| 23:59.26 | Esamynn|work | ~cheeseslap Vladinator |
| 23:59.26 | purl | ACTION slaps Vladinator around with a piece of rocquefort |
| 23:59.29 | Primer | <sarcasm text="I love python despite the significant whitespace"/> |
| 23:59.55 | Adys | Interpreted as "I love python, but theres no significant whitespace |
