| 00:01.52 | Jamash | depends on the application |
| 00:02.31 | Jamash | echo $LANG gives "en_US.UTF-8" |
| 00:02.55 | Jamash | actually I guess it usually is all caps |
| 00:03.41 | mckenziemc | isn't it supposed to be lowercase when used in xml |
| 00:04.46 | Jamash | isn't XML UTF-8 by defalt? |
| 00:04.48 | Jamash | *default? |
| 00:04.54 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 00:04.59 | Jamash | oh |
| 00:05.00 | Jamash | that's dumb |
| 00:05.05 | mckenziemc | nvm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-8 |
| 00:05.16 | Arrowmaster | if its being served over http it defaults to the systems default encoding |
| 00:07.10 | Jamash | IANA says Internet character set names are case-insensitive |
| 00:07.18 | Jamash | https://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets |
| 00:09.44 | Jamash | I keep interpreting "iana.org" as "I am not an organization" |
| 00:15.10 | Jamash | anyone played scenarios on beta? |
| 00:16.00 | foxlit | yes |
| 00:16.06 | Jamash | are they fun? |
| 00:16.34 | foxlit | fun is subjective. |
| 00:16.54 | foxlit | I got the same one twice :( |
| 00:17.00 | Jamash | do you have to be level 90? |
| 00:17.23 | foxlit | I'm not sure; haven't tried at lower levels. |
| 00:17.41 | foxlit | I think their intention is to make Theramore 85 when it is pushed live. |
| 00:18.39 | foxlit | It doesn't feel much different to outdoor questing, except there are two more people who are supposed to help you along. |
| 00:20.12 | Jamash | I think the idea is that they pretty much gave up on group quests and scenarios are the replacement |
| 00:20.41 | foxlit | they're slightly longer than your typical Group [3]. |
| 00:21.04 | Jamash | the new barena of blood is one |
| 00:21.52 | Jamash | so what's in 5.0 other than the new skill and talent system? pet battles? |
| 00:33.57 | Dagmar | Why, the end of World Of Warcraft, of course |
| 00:34.14 | mckenziemc | http://www.wowpedia.org/Patch_5.0 |
| 00:34.14 | Dagmar | Many, many forum posts will confirm this I'm sure. |
| 00:34.31 | mckenziemc | i found the page for you then forgot to link it >.. |
| 00:34.33 | mckenziemc | >.> |
| 00:35.52 | arton | <.< |
| 00:36.06 | mckenziemc | no arton |
| 00:36.17 | arton | link it |
| 00:36.25 | arton | again |
| 00:36.29 | arton | sam |
| 00:36.42 | mckenziemc | [Click here to kill arton] |
| 00:36.48 | arton | 404 |
| 00:37.53 | Vladinator | mckenziemc: that link doesnt work |
| 00:38.15 | Jamash | I submit to you that xbox live gold is an MMORPG |
| 00:38.53 | Dagmar | So is Scientology |
| 00:39.23 | mckenziemc | yes it does |
| 00:39.25 | mckenziemc | ~kill arton |
| 00:39.26 | purl | ACTION shoots a magneto-ionized meson gun at arton |
| 00:39.33 | mckenziemc | the server's just slow |
| 00:40.53 | Dagmar | Jesus |
| 00:40.56 | Dagmar | that's harsh. |
| 00:40.59 | Jamash | who's arton? |
| 00:41.02 | Jamash | oh |
| 00:41.03 | Jamash | hi |
| 00:41.07 | Dagmar | It's not slow, it's "computationally-challenged" |
| 00:41.19 | mckenziemc | D: |
| 00:42.11 | Jamash | starlon why are there two of you |
| 00:42.20 | Vladinator | lua test |
| 00:42.20 | arton | lies |
| 00:42.28 | Vladinator | there is no lua bot any longer I see |
| 00:42.32 | Vladinator | !lua test |
| 00:42.32 | batbot | Vladinator: > nil |
| 00:42.36 | Vladinator | ah there it is |
| 00:43.12 | Jamash | lua> print "Vladinator is bad at IRC" |
| 00:43.12 | lua_bot | Jamash: Vladinator is bad at IRC |
| 00:43.36 | Vladinator | lua_bot and batbot? |
| 00:43.48 | arton | sworn enemies |
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| 00:44.18 | mckenziemc | i thought Shirik was batbot's sworn enemy |
| 00:44.22 | mckenziemc | it can't have two |
| 00:44.34 | arton | lua_bot's Shirik? |
| 00:44.45 | mckenziemc | hmm maybe |
| 00:45.32 | Jamash | shirik fears to duel a bot, the coward |
| 00:45.46 | mckenziemc | heh |
| 00:46.40 | Jamash | does it say that on some kind of schedule or is it random? |
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| 01:06.00 | Ackis | Arrowmaster: there's a contest for pre-ordering halo 4 with EB Games... you can win 28000 MS points and 3 years of gold lol |
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| 01:13.41 | Ackis | Cairenn|afk: http://i.imgur.com/wSdFS.jpg |
| 01:18.18 | Shirik | hacks Jamash |
| 01:18.44 | batrick | hai shirik |
| 01:18.50 | Shirik | hai batrick |
| 01:18.56 | batrick | you never talk to me anymore |
| 01:19.24 | batrick | are you still a C++ fanatic? |
| 01:19.28 | mckenziemc | that's shirik for you |
| 01:19.33 | Shirik | You have o idea |
| 01:19.34 | Shirik | nodea |
| 01:19.36 | Shirik | .. |
| 01:19.51 | Shirik | apparently my brain thinks too quickly for my fingers |
| 01:20.00 | Shirik | but seriously, I'm working on some amazingly epic code |
| 01:20.06 | Shirik | all template metaprogramming |
| 01:20.13 | batrick | sighs |
| 01:20.13 | Shirik | template template parameters |
| 01:20.17 | Shirik | it is beautiful |
| 01:20.38 | Torhal | Vladinator: Sorry, was away from the window. I play games and code. For WoW, I mostly code. |
| 01:20.39 | kd3 | indirection is beautiful? |
| 01:20.39 | batrick | i taught a 3 days of class for a C/C++ programming class |
| 01:20.40 | kd3 | winces |
| 01:21.06 | batrick | and had to deal with if ((cin >> foo) != '\0') { } |
| 01:21.09 | batrick | derrrrp |
| 01:21.29 | batrick | that made me annoyed |
| 01:21.54 | Shirik | wtf is that |
| 01:22.12 | batrick | i was trying to show them that `cin >> foo` is also an expression |
| 01:22.16 | batrick | similar to |
| 01:22.30 | batrick | (c = getc()) == EOF |
| 01:22.43 | mckenziemc | if (Shirik = NULL) { ... } |
| 01:22.46 | batrick | but your silly `cin >> foo` returns the stream not what is assigned to foo |
| 01:22.56 | batrick | (C++ is evil and stupid.) |
| 01:23.27 | Shirik | you know what's amazing |
| 01:24.00 | Shirik | template <template <class, class> T, class A, class B> operator <(T<A, typename CheckType<A>::IsNotSameAs<B>::Type> const &lhs) |
| 01:24.04 | Shirik | yes it is |
| 01:24.21 | Adys | google found me and is annoying me when I attempt to find old files |
| 01:24.23 | Adys | https://www.google.com/search?q=d3-8610-C5D7D98C17EDB87C5DD07225CC40208B.mfil |
| 01:24.43 | batrick | there are less subtle ways of searching for milfs |
| 01:24.57 | Adys | tell me all about them |
| 01:25.11 | batrick | what program uses extension mfil? |
| 01:25.24 | batrick | Shirik: you're a terrible person |
| 01:25.29 | Shirik | it is amazing |
| 01:25.41 | Adys | batrick: blizzard's manifest files for patching |
| 01:25.42 | Shirik | it's for a unit conversion/type safety library |
| 01:25.43 | Shirik | it's pretty neat |
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| 01:25.53 | Shirik | that's just the internal details that nobody should ever look at |
| 01:26.00 | Jamash | Shirik: Amazing in the sense of "I'm amazed anyone would think that that's a good idea"? |
| 01:26.11 | Shirik | the file seriously starts with a comment saying "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here. Beyond this point, there be dragons." |
| 01:26.33 | Shirik | But from the user side, it's so elegant |
| 01:26.34 | Jamash | can you have mutually recursive templates? |
| 01:26.48 | Shirik | it literally creates types as they're needed |
| 01:26.57 | Shirik | if you divide meters by seconds, it creates a new meters per second type |
| 01:26.58 | Jamash | no, it would be elegant if the language let you do simple comparisons without invoking satan himself |
| 01:26.58 | Shirik | etc. |
| 01:27.18 | Shirik | How is the language supposed to know what is type safe? |
| 01:27.24 | Shirik | `Meters < Feet` is a valid comparison |
| 01:27.24 | Jamash | what you're talking about is the opposite of elegant |
| 01:27.28 | Shirik | but `Meters < Seconds` is not |
| 01:27.56 | Shirik | instead everyone just uses double |
| 01:28.06 | Shirik | and that's extremely unsafe |
| 01:28.10 | Jamash | you just posted a giant steaming pile of dumb in order to express the simplest possible logical operation |
| 01:28.30 | Shirik | it is a template that handles it for all possible units |
| 01:28.34 | Jamash | and yet you think it's cool |
| 01:28.47 | Shirik | ok, I challenge you to write something better |
| 01:29.07 | mckenziemc | submits an empty file. |
| 01:29.09 | Jamash | clearly it's one of those cases where the feeling of accomplishment from overcoming adversity has erased the knowledge that the adversity was self-inflicted |
| 01:29.15 | Shirik | You either fail to understand the problem, or are trolling, or both. But I'm pretty confident of the trolling part. |
| 01:30.02 | Jamash | I'm pretty sure that the fact that you think that C++ templates are a good way of dealing with units demonstrates that you've lost contact with consensus reality |
| 01:30.36 | Jamash | what happens if I want to use a combination of units determined at runtime that isn't in your base set |
| 01:30.45 | Jamash | oh yeah the program explodes |
| 01:30.50 | Jamash | because templates are compile-time |
| 01:31.10 | Shirik | Then your program is moronic, problem solved |
| 01:31.14 | Shirik | Onward to reality |
| 01:31.17 | mckenziemc | o.o |
| 01:31.18 | Jamash | what? |
| 01:31.26 | Jamash | are you serious? |
| 01:31.39 | Jamash | the programmer must anticipate all possible variations in advance? |
| 01:32.56 | batrick | what have I do |
| 01:32.59 | batrick | done* |
| 01:33.39 | Shirik | what have you been up to anyway batrick |
| 01:33.52 | batrick | slowly marching towards a phd |
| 01:33.59 | Shirik | ew |
| 01:34.06 | batrick | recently i wrote a formatter for Lua |
| 01:34.16 | batrick | it's kinda epic |
| 01:34.19 | Shirik | you already had a CE, that automatically means you can get any job |
| 01:34.22 | Shirik | why would you go further |
| 01:34.36 | batrick | i enjoy having suffixes attached to my name |
| 01:34.44 | foxlit | because phds are awesome! |
| 01:34.46 | Shirik | Dr. Batrick does sound pretty awesome |
| 01:34.49 | batrick | phd is special because it gives me a prefix and suffix |
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| 01:34.57 | batrick | or is |
| 01:35.02 | batrick | Dr. Batrick, Ph.D. |
| 01:35.04 | batrick | redundant? |
| 01:35.10 | Shirik | I think that's redundant |
| 01:35.14 | batrick | oh well |
| 01:35.19 | Shirik | but you have multiple options! |
| 01:35.24 | batrick | right |
| 01:35.52 | Shirik | you should come to gen con |
| 01:35.58 | batrick | indy? |
| 01:36.05 | Shirik | yes |
| 01:36.07 | batrick | i'm thinking about going to the lua workshop this year |
| 01:36.10 | batrick | you should go too |
| 01:36.16 | batrick | s/thinking/planning/ |
| 01:36.17 | Shirik | I doubt I will have time |
| 01:36.23 | batrick | poor form shirik |
| 01:36.23 | Shirik | most of my PTO has been spent judging, lol |
| 01:36.29 | batrick | s/poor/bad/ |
| 01:36.39 | Jamash | you should get a JD |
| 01:36.59 | Jamash | Dr. Batrick, Attorney at Law |
| 01:37.03 | batrick | i can maybe swing gencon but dunno wtf i'd do there |
| 01:37.17 | batrick | i'm not that flavor of n3rd |
| 01:37.30 | Jamash | I might be going to gencon saturday for the costume contest |
| 01:37.46 | batrick | gencon is this weekend? |
| 01:37.50 | Jamash | no |
| 01:37.54 | Jamash | the saturday of gencon |
| 01:37.57 | Jamash | when it happens |
| 01:37.57 | batrick | oh |
| 01:38.22 | batrick | next saturday |
| 01:38.24 | batrick | i see |
| 01:38.30 | Jamash | yeah |
| 01:38.32 | batrick | I don't know shirik, i'd learn twoards probably not |
| 01:38.45 | Shirik | you could win |
| 01:38.48 | Shirik | something I dunno |
| 01:38.51 | Shirik | whatever our prizes are |
| 01:38.56 | batrick | 3 hour car ride and i'm lazy |
| 01:39.02 | Jamash | what game shirik? |
| 01:39.07 | Shirik | wow tcg |
| 01:39.19 | Jamash | my cards are all old and probably obsolete |
| 01:39.26 | Jamash | and I don't remember how to play |
| 01:39.27 | Shirik | http://wowtcg.cryptozoic.com/tournaments/darkmoon-faire/darkmoon-faire-indianapolis-2012 |
| 01:39.29 | batrick | ehhhhh |
| 01:39.45 | batrick | i steer clear of everythin wow related excluding this irc channel |
| 01:39.55 | batrick | if it were MTG i'd be in |
| 01:39.57 | Jamash | why make an exception? |
| 01:39.59 | Shirik | ffuuuuu |
| 01:40.00 | batrick | even though i'm terribad |
| 01:40.01 | Jamash | mtg is cancer |
| 01:40.21 | batrick | i played MTG when i was ~5-7 in the mid nineties |
| 01:40.27 | batrick | it will always have a special place in my heart |
| 01:40.39 | batrick | s/mid/early/ |
| 01:40.40 | batrick | derp |
| 01:40.56 | Amarande | You know what's real fun in MTG? |
| 01:41.06 | mckenziemc | uh oh |
| 01:41.08 | Amarande | Two-table drafts when the two players at each table who emphasised blue come up against each other :) |
| 01:41.34 | Shirik | that sounds awful |
| 01:41.37 | batrick | because of counterspell? |
| 01:41.42 | Shirik | "pass" "pass" "pass" "pass" |
| 01:41.43 | batrick | because in practice that doesn't happen |
| 01:41.45 | Shirik | 20 turns later |
| 01:41.50 | Shirik | "pass" "pass" "pass" "pass" |
| 01:41.54 | Amarande | heh, blue vs. blue tends to be "this is the duel that never ends, it goes on and on my friends ..." :) |
| 01:42.01 | batrick | counterspell ime is terrible in draft except for a few cards worth keeping |
| 01:42.06 | Shirik | I had a similar game once in wow |
| 01:42.14 | Amarande | Shirik: healer vs healer duels? |
| 01:42.30 | batrick | anyway |
| 01:42.34 | batrick | shirik, come play sc2 |
| 01:42.35 | Shirik | I was playing a frost mage (pretty much identical to blue in magic) and my friend was playing a deck that basically created an impenetrable wall |
| 01:42.51 | Shirik | too busy playing mechwarrior |
| 01:43.03 | Arrowmaster | which mechwarrior? |
| 01:43.05 | Jamash | explain these formats to me shirik |
| 01:43.10 | foxlit | batbot: where are we, league-wise? |
| 01:43.11 | batbot | foxlit, You may rely on it. |
| 01:43.18 | foxlit | fu, batbot. |
| 01:43.19 | Shirik | most recent 6 sets are legal |
| 01:43.20 | Shirik | that's all |
| 01:43.26 | foxlit | batrick: ^ |
| 01:43.40 | Jamash | I don't have any cards from the most recent 6 sets |
| 01:44.04 | Arrowmaster | how many sets do they put out a year? |
| 01:44.17 | Shirik | about 3 |
| 01:44.24 | Jamash | my cards are all from the first year or two of the tcg |
| 01:44.43 | Arrowmaster | all mine are 30+ sets out of date |
| 01:44.59 | Jamash | I hadn't realized the wow tcg had been running for 10 years |
| 01:45.05 | batrick | foxlit: "where are you" ? |
| 01:45.09 | batrick | i'm in masters |
| 01:45.18 | Arrowmaster | Jamash: the wow tcg cant be 10 years old |
| 01:45.29 | Jamash | Arrowmaster: Yes |
| 01:45.31 | batrick | i steal n3rd's ladder points as father tasteless teaches |
| 01:45.37 | Arrowmaster | wow isnt 10 years old |
| 01:45.40 | Jamash | Yes. |
| 01:45.43 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 01:45.59 | Shirik | his comment is about your 30+ |
| 01:46.02 | Jamash | ^ |
| 01:46.12 | Shirik | mechwarrior time |
| 01:46.19 | batrick | shirik |
| 01:46.23 | Arrowmaster | thought we were still talking about mtg |
| 01:46.24 | batrick | you are a constant source of disappointment for me |
| 01:46.26 | Arrowmaster | not wow |
| 01:46.34 | Shirik | batrick you should play mechwarrior |
| 01:46.35 | Jamash | when were we talking about mtg |
| 01:46.45 | Jamash | what mechwarrior game is this and how much does it cost |
| 01:46.59 | batrick | sounds like warhammer |
| 01:47.01 | Arrowmaster | i dont know i dont have timestamps on this client |
| 01:47.10 | Shirik | mechwarrior online |
| 01:47.13 | Shirik | free to play but in closed beta |
| 01:47.21 | Shirik | which is now semi-open beta |
| 01:47.22 | Arrowmaster | is it good |
| 01:47.22 | batrick | mmo? |
| 01:47.23 | Shirik | yes |
| 01:47.25 | Shirik | no |
| 01:47.27 | Jamash | what's the install size? |
| 01:47.33 | Arrowmaster | mechwarrior2 good? |
| 01:47.34 | batrick | because i promised myself no more mmos |
| 01:47.50 | Shirik | 1.46GB |
| 01:47.54 | Shirik | it's not an mmo |
| 01:47.54 | Jamash | excellent |
| 01:47.59 | Shirik | I never played mechwarrior 2 |
| 01:48.00 | Shirik | but it's good |
| 01:48.09 | Arrowmaster | how customizable are the mechs |
| 01:48.12 | Jamash | can't be bothered to download more than 5GB for a f2p game |
| 01:48.16 | batrick | man |
| 01:48.23 | batrick | fuck the c Lua stack limit in 5.1 |
| 01:48.31 | batrick | 8000 slots is not enough when using lpeg |
| 01:49.13 | Jamash | this reminds me of when zorba was complaining about getting errors with tables that have more than half a million entries |
| 01:49.14 | batrick | 1e6 isn't enough either for that matter... why couldn't roberto just use INT_MAX-1000 |
| 01:49.55 | Jamash | in both cases, I feel that if your wow addon uses more than that, you're doing something wrong |
| 01:52.14 | batrick | i'm not writing an addon |
| 01:52.41 | Jamash | oh well then just recompile |
| 01:57.25 | Jamash | or use 5.2? |
| 01:57.43 | batrick | i'm trying to write this so it can be run on 5.1 |
| 01:57.51 | Jamash | ah |
| 01:57.55 | Jamash | sucks to be you I guess |
| 02:00.46 | kd3 | wait, what? a "jinyu maiden"? |
| 02:00.51 | Vladinator | http://youtu.be/UBie8LbWAbU |
| 02:01.00 | kd3 | have we even seen a female jinyu model yet? can we tell the two apart? |
| 02:01.27 | Torhal | kd3: I'm still chuckling over Dook Ookem. |
| 02:01.35 | kd3 | hah |
| 02:02.38 | Arrowmaster | whats so funny |
| 02:02.44 | Arrowmaster | i want in on the joke too |
| 02:02.53 | mckenziemc | >.< |
| 02:03.03 | Torhal | Arrowmaster: Duke Nukem. |
| 02:03.15 | mckenziemc | ~lart Torhal |
| 02:03.15 | purl | slaps Torhal upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 02:03.33 | Torhal | stuffs mckenziemc into an olive. |
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| 02:26.53 | Cairenn|afk | Ackis: d'awwwww |
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| 02:31.13 | kd3 | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5889309137?page=212#4231 |
| 02:31.22 | kd3 | is highly impressed that the thread's still going strong |
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| 04:58.35 | Arrowmaster | http://imgur.com/a/n4gTq the little bit of blur really messes with how it looks |
| 05:07.13 | Adys | hah |
| 05:17.14 | Cairenn | That's amusing, since usually a coin is used to give the scale of something. Messes with your head. |
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| 05:59.21 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 06:22.14 | Thunder_Child | http://tech.woot.com/plus/mystery-science-theater |
| 06:44.12 | Dagmar | I think woot just jumped the shark |
| 06:44.24 | Dagmar | $450 for an inflatable _what_ now? |
| 07:04.55 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (ca312226@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.49.34.38) |
| 07:04.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 07:05.11 | bluspacecow | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6307741211?page=8#155 |
| 07:05.26 | bluspacecow | Regulations to release patch update notes for every patch wha ? |
| 07:05.31 | bluspacecow | is that really a thing ? |
| 07:06.32 | Dagmar | You overlook that the poster has clearly been recently struck a severe blow to the head. |
| 07:06.48 | bluspacecow | oh rly ? |
| 07:07.02 | Dagmar | "Under regulation to software, a business has to release a patch stating that if its ready is stating according to patch notes that this is to be expected based on this." |
| 07:07.15 | Dagmar | :== "Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?" |
| 07:07.16 | bluspacecow | is that even english ? |
| 07:07.28 | bluspacecow | grammar seems a little odd |
| 07:07.35 | Dagmar | The poster is insane. |
| 07:07.54 | Cairenn | or very very chemically inhibited |
| 07:07.58 | bluspacecow | <3 Dagmar |
| 07:08.04 | bluspacecow | and Cairenn :3 |
| 07:08.17 | Cairenn | :) |
| 07:08.40 | Dagmar | The depths of their mental problems are exceptionally obvious to a native English speaker. |
| 07:09.08 | Dagmar | I suspect the only reason his spelling isn't eye-watering is: red-squigglies |
| 07:09.52 | Dagmar | Someone should point that kid at the Torchlight II people.. |
| 07:09.58 | Dagmar | His head would explode. |
| 07:10.00 | bluspacecow | no one expects the red squigglies |
| 07:10.09 | bluspacecow | do they do ninja updates too ? |
| 07:10.20 | Dagmar | They haven't released _yet_ |
| 07:10.34 | Dagmar | Like, it's clear they kinda got shafted by D3 coming out when it did |
| 07:10.40 | bluspacecow | :( |
| 07:10.45 | bluspacecow | i sad nows |
| 07:10.50 | bluspacecow | i wants a torchlight 2 |
| 07:11.07 | Dagmar | They sort of did some hand-waving about it being soon, and have turtled up |
| 07:11.19 | Dagmar | I wouldn't mind trying it myself |
| 07:11.43 | Dagmar | ...but I think if they intend to wait for the hullaballo about D3 to die down, they're going to ruin any chances of decent sales |
| 07:12.35 | Dagmar | If it shows anything like the progress they've been showing between releases for the last decade, it'll be awesome |
| 07:13.00 | Dagmar | ...but I think they're making a terrible mistake worrying so much about Diablo III. They've got their own unique thing going on with Torchlight |
| 07:13.12 | bluspacecow | they do indeed |
| 07:13.16 | bluspacecow | and lo for it is awesome |
| 07:13.35 | Dagmar | Hell I've been buying it every time it comes out |
| 07:14.07 | Dagmar | When my looting finger gets tired in D3, I stop. |
| 07:14.21 | Dagmar | In Torchlight, I get a soda and keep going until it starts cramping up |
| 07:21.14 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@cpc2-craw2-0-0-cust1299.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 07:21.14 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 07:27.40 | Jamash | http://guysfromandromeda.com/ ZOMG |
| 07:31.01 | Jamash | I thought torchlight 2 was out already |
| 07:31.22 | Dagmar | Steam was still saying "SUMMER 2012" earlier this week |
| 07:31.32 | Jamash | if they want a lull in diablo III hullaballoo they'd better get it out before 1.0.4 |
| 07:31.48 | Jamash | by which I mean, in the next week |
| 07:31.57 | Dagmar | Yeah basically I think if they don't just fucking release, they're going to be waiting until next year when no one will give a shit |
| 07:32.19 | Jamash | I seriously thought it was out |
| 07:32.36 | Jamash | they've also got to consider guild wars II and MoP |
| 07:32.40 | Jamash | chop chop |
| 07:32.45 | Dagmar | Yeah |
| 07:33.03 | Dagmar | There is NOT going to be a time for the next year where they won't be competing with a "big" title for attention |
| 07:33.43 | bluspacecow | A wild jamash appears! |
| 07:33.43 | Jamash | you know, it's funny |
| 07:33.47 | Dagmar | I don't like those games, but even *I'm* thinking about giving GW2 a go |
| 07:33.48 | bluspacecow | bluspacecow uses hai2u! |
| 07:33.51 | bluspacecow | hai2u! |
| 07:33.53 | Jamash | I never really got the idea of "new game plus" |
| 07:33.55 | bluspacecow | it's wildly succesfull |
| 07:33.57 | bluspacecow | \o/ |
| 07:33.59 | Jamash | hai2blu |
| 07:34.09 | Dagmar | "new game plus"? |
| 07:34.20 | bluspacecow | heh |
| 07:34.28 | bluspacecow | i just like how you can send your pet to town for you :P |
| 07:34.42 | Dagmar | bluespacecow: It was an evolutionary event |
| 07:35.01 | Jamash | and then I realized that it's what the diablo series has had all along |
| 07:35.21 | Jamash | new game plus = start the game over with all the stuff you had at the end |
| 07:35.23 | Dagmar | Pets that couldn't would wind up with their masters dying under the weight of all the loot they couldn't bear to leave behind |
| 07:35.43 | Dagmar | Jamash: Ah... Yeah, I kinda see it |
| 07:35.47 | Jamash | it always seemed weird when people talked about it in JRPGs |
| 07:35.53 | Dagmar | ...but it does generally work for *one* go 'round |
| 07:36.25 | Dagmar | Like with Dead Island... You get to the end and go "Wait... I can show those fuckers who is BOSS this time instead of flailing about with a large cocktail straw." |
| 07:36.26 | Jamash | then only recently I realized that I was dumb and I'd been playing games with it since 1996 |
| 07:36.53 | Jamash | I just never got into jrpgs so I never encountered it *by name* |
| 07:37.06 | Mr_Rabies | dark souls does NG+ best |
| 07:37.13 | Dagmar | You started out literally using up every paddle on the island, smashing it into splinters in a panic, and by the end of hte first thing you've got a flaming chainsaw that shoots lasers |
| 07:37.15 | Mr_Rabies | the enemies get harder each time you beat the game |
| 07:37.23 | Mr_Rabies | well |
| 07:37.25 | Mr_Rabies | up to 7 times |
| 07:37.51 | Jamash | dark souls is for people who not only hate themselves, they hate everyone else too |
| 07:37.59 | Mr_Rabies | haha |
| 07:38.02 | Dagmar | Yah but the problem is that basically... novelty is gone from it, and you're doing the same thing you did before, but now the game is trying to be more annoying about it |
| 07:38.03 | Mr_Rabies | dark souls owns |
| 07:38.06 | Jamash | anonymous griefing as a core game mechanic |
| 07:38.18 | Jamash | Dagmar: except, that's what the diablo series is built around |
| 07:38.38 | Dagmar | I didn't even know you could repeat the thing in D2 |
| 07:38.44 | Jamash | O_o |
| 07:38.46 | Dagmar | I finished it, quit. |
| 07:38.53 | Dagmar | lol |
| 07:38.53 | Jamash | diablo games don't even start until nightmare mode mang |
| 07:39.02 | Jamash | (I never beat nightmare in DII) |
| 07:39.15 | Jamash | at least I don't think so |
| 07:39.23 | Dagmar | Honestly, this is going to sound deranged, but I stopped playing video games for "fun" a long time ago |
| 07:39.23 | Jamash | I'd probably remember it if I did |
| 07:39.36 | Jamash | to each his own |
| 07:39.38 | Dagmar | I mean, occasionally they *are* fun, but mainly I'm always just studying the mechanisms |
| 07:39.41 | Jamash | except shirik |
| 07:39.55 | Jamash | for what purpose? |
| 07:39.59 | Dagmar | I'm wondering how much Blizz paid Game Freak |
| 07:40.15 | Jamash | the sheer intellectual exercise, or what |
| 07:40.21 | Dagmar | Jamash: I used to mess about on MUDs |
| 07:40.26 | *** part/#wowuidev bluipodcow (~bluspacec@114-134-0-121.lightwire.co.nz) |
| 07:40.26 | Dagmar | I like creating virtual environments |
| 07:40.53 | Dagmar | I could probably write out in ten pages or less how to make a social network game |
| 07:40.54 | Jamash | nothing, you can't copyright game ideas |
| 07:41.31 | Dagmar | But see, you can have an excellent storyline and then know exactly nothing about turning it into a _game_ someone can interact with |
| 07:41.40 | Dagmar | This you have seen I'm sure |
| 07:42.01 | Dagmar | Hell, Dragon's Lair |
| 07:42.21 | Dagmar | Cool cartoon. Controls had basically fuck all to do with what was on the screen at most times |
| 07:42.36 | Mr_Rabies | many japanese games are this way |
| 07:42.43 | Dagmar | Yeah and I can't *stand* them for that |
| 07:42.56 | Mr_Rabies | dark souls has a great mixture of both |
| 07:43.01 | Mr_Rabies | the gameplay is so enjoyable |
| 07:43.20 | Mr_Rabies | the story is muted and you have to really look to get a sense of the mysterious world |
| 07:43.24 | Mr_Rabies | from item descriptions, etc |
| 07:43.24 | Dagmar | Like crap where you have to pass a certain location 19 times and on the 20th and only the 20th time something is active, but there's no hints on the screen at all about it |
| 07:43.55 | Dagmar | TSW is pretty cool with storyline until halfway through Egypt |
| 07:44.03 | Mr_Rabies | TSW's gameplay killed me |
| 07:44.13 | Mr_Rabies | why in the hell am i using my keyboard to shoot a gun |
| 07:44.19 | Dagmar | After that it turns into "Oh crap have to work up my gear" |
| 07:44.32 | Dagmar | It's not like you have to aim |
| 07:44.50 | Mr_Rabies | yeah |
| 07:44.58 | Dagmar | I'm running around Elemental+Fists |
| 07:45.09 | Mr_Rabies | tab targeting with assault rifles sucks |
| 07:45.10 | Mr_Rabies | :( |
| 07:45.14 | bluspacecow | tsw ? |
| 07:45.16 | Dagmar | I despair for some of their players |
| 07:45.22 | Dagmar | The Secret World |
| 07:45.50 | Mr_Rabies | and then there's the opposite dagmar |
| 07:45.51 | Dagmar | I am pretty sure I am doing my build about half wrong, and yet, I can go into an instance with these fools and DPS and off-heal (or they die!) |
| 07:45.55 | Mr_Rabies | like, TERA or RaiderZ |
| 07:46.04 | Mr_Rabies | great gameplay, shitty generic story/world |
| 07:46.16 | Dagmar | I actually had a dude carp at me for not DPSing through half a fight |
| 07:46.34 | Dagmar | What was I doing? Keeping the healer alive. Keeping him alive. Keeping the other DPS alive. |
| 07:46.57 | Mr_Rabies | TERA also has other issues, though |
| 07:47.08 | Mr_Rabies | like, say, the elin even existing |
| 07:47.13 | Dagmar | Pedophilia |
| 07:47.44 | Dagmar | They just didn't bother to dress it up like FF does. ;) |
| 07:48.00 | Mr_Rabies | or the totally embarrasing skimpy armor |
| 07:48.30 | Mr_Rabies | "armor" |
| 07:48.40 | Dagmar | That's a rule you know |
| 07:48.43 | Mr_Rabies | more like fancy underpants, at best |
| 07:48.48 | Dagmar | Female armor always works backwards in games. |
| 07:48.58 | Dagmar | The less it covers, the more protected they are. |
| 07:49.03 | Mr_Rabies | not in dark souls! |
| 07:49.10 | Dagmar | If you ever see a naked female boss, it's time to RUN |
| 07:49.25 | Mr_Rabies | http://i.imgur.com/U3Mgz.jpg |
| 07:49.42 | Mr_Rabies | (not to say dark souls is above fanservice, but it's generally pretty classily done) |
| 07:49.48 | Dagmar | A wee bit of a clipping problem there. heh |
| 07:50.08 | Mr_Rabies | big models like that are hard not to clip with |
| 07:50.20 | Mr_Rabies | without making their arms long and creepy |
| 07:50.57 | Mr_Rabies | (also there're enough animations in dark souls already to worry about upper body clipping on npcs) |
| 07:51.08 | Mr_Rabies | animations use euphoria, as far as i can tell |
| 07:51.21 | Mr_Rabies | and tuned well, at that |
| 07:51.25 | Dagmar | Yeah but this person looks like they're being eaten alive by colanders |
| 07:51.29 | Mr_Rabies | not the wigglyjiggly euphoria you see sometime |
| 07:51.44 | Mr_Rabies | that's her helmet! |
| 07:52.11 | Mr_Rabies | armor from catarina looks like that |
| 07:52.19 | Dagmar | There's enough room for a wet bar inside that breastplate |
| 07:52.29 | Dagmar | She could be in there mixing cocktails for all you know |
| 07:52.33 | Mr_Rabies | maybe she is |
| 07:52.45 | Mr_Rabies | i suspect her dad's a bit of a drunk |
| 07:52.49 | Mr_Rabies | he's badass though |
| 07:52.56 | Mr_Rabies | siegmeyer is second only to solaire in badassery |
| 07:53.15 | Mr_Rabies | http://i.imgur.com/W6bBW.jpg |
| 07:54.44 | Dagmar | He can levitate pretty well |
| 07:54.56 | Mr_Rabies | that must be a preproduction screenshot |
| 07:55.04 | Mr_Rabies | because the game's insanely good at keeping your feet on the ground |
| 07:55.06 | Mr_Rabies | even going up steps |
| 07:55.21 | Mr_Rabies | you don't just kinda slide up steps |
| 07:55.35 | Mr_Rabies | your feet touch each one |
| 08:07.25 | Jamash | I think MoP might start an actual rivalry between me and my sister |
| 08:07.35 | Jamash | by way of pet battles |
| 08:09.14 | Jamash | we've never really been able to compete in most games because they haven't offered a competitive mode that we were both interested in and had reasonably comparable levels of skill in |
| 08:09.59 | Jamash | pet battles aren't twitchy and aren't super complicated *and* leverage both of our obsessive collection habits |
| 08:10.31 | Jamash | so now we're quoting bits of the pokemon theme song at each other over chat |
| 08:10.41 | Jamash | zzz |
| 08:11.33 | Mr_Rabies | i think you'll be happy/horrified to find out this exists: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVjfa0Alz5o |
| 08:11.39 | Mr_Rabies | (that's the original singer) |
| 08:12.56 | AcidWeb | Hmm NUM_WORLDMAP_FLAGS was changed 2->4 in MoP |
| 08:15.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~Kalroth@d40aa5af.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 08:16.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (~Owner@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 08:16.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
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| 08:27.54 | *** join/#wowuidev hatix (~hatix@host-92-25-20-163.as13285.net) |
| 08:32.41 | hatix | koks ip ? |
| 08:34.05 | Silvanas | i thin kits ip4 |
| 08:36.09 | *** part/#wowuidev hatix (~hatix@host-92-25-20-163.as13285.net) |
| 09:05.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@p5B04D45B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:29.54 | AcidWeb | Soo. You think that is a chance that in some point blizz add 90 level chars templates? |
| 09:33.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 09:33.56 | bluspacecow | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6307741211?page=10#195 |
| 09:34.03 | bluspacecow | is this even english ? |
| 09:34.19 | nevcairiel | AcidWeb: no |
| 09:34.37 | nevcairiel | or well, for the next expansion :P |
| 09:34.41 | AcidWeb | hehe |
| 09:34.47 | nevcairiel | they said it wont happen this one |
| 09:34.54 | AcidWeb | They just hate addon authors. |
| 09:35.04 | AcidWeb | And today they increased exp need to level |
| 09:35.05 | AcidWeb | argghhh |
| 09:35.26 | Elkano | nev, what's the topic? |
| 09:38.36 | nevcairiel | lvl90 premades |
| 09:42.48 | bluspacecow | http://www.quiterly.com/11158/kill-yourself |
| 09:59.06 | Yoshimo | acid, whats wrong with addonauthors? |
| 09:59.26 | AcidWeb | ? |
| 09:59.33 | Yoshimo | [11:34] AcidWeb: They just hate addon authors. |
| 09:59.47 | nevcairiel | he probably just wants to test somethign that needs a high level char .P |
| 09:59.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Corrodias (no@96-40-253-184.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com) |
| 10:00.07 | AcidWeb | Yup. I need to check some code on new bgs. |
| 10:00.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku_ (~vilkku@unaffiliated/vilkku) |
| 10:01.02 | AcidWeb | And words cant describe how badly I do not want to exp |
| 10:02.26 | Yoshimo | are these bgs even open yet` |
| 10:02.34 | AcidWeb | Yes. |
| 10:02.52 | Yoshimo | i must have missed that, since when? |
| 10:03.27 | AcidWeb | Quite long time ago. |
| 10:03.33 | AcidWeb | I dont have extract date. |
| 10:03.48 | AcidWeb | *exact |
| 10:04.35 | *** join/#wowuidev NeoTron_ (~neotron@50.46.226.119) |
| 10:05.33 | Yoshimo | if there are no big announcements on wowinsider wowhead and mmochamp at the same time i dont see it i guess^^ |
| 10:06.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Mr_Rabies|again (Mr_Rabies@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe93:8b16) |
| 10:15.50 | Yoshimo | queuing times are horrible right now for these bgs^^ |
| 10:16.37 | bluspacecow | oks i go homes nows |
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| 11:26.16 | cbreak | no one who has not seen the original AV should complain about BG queue times |
| 11:28.29 | AcidWeb | I remember only one thing from _old_ AV. Fishing in ally lake and killing them with windfury fishing rod when somebody dared to interrupt me |
| 11:29.11 | cbreak | I remember that battles took more than 24 hours sometimes |
| 11:29.29 | cbreak | and that queues were up to two or three hours, sometimes even more |
| 11:32.10 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 11:32.10 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 11:32.19 | bluspacecow | hihihi |
| 11:32.29 | bluspacecow | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75V4ClJZME4&list=PL0254E310BD032F07 |
| 11:32.42 | bluspacecow | Original Dr Who theme :) |
| 11:35.03 | cbreak | wonder if they used a teremin |
| 11:36.26 | cbreak | seems they didn't |
| 11:43.31 | bluspacecow | ~wiki teremin |
| 11:43.54 | bluspacecow | thank you purl |
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| 12:21.25 | bluspacecow | some folks in here could use this image sometimes :P |
| 12:21.26 | bluspacecow | https://twitter.com/nagoul1/status/234260130110267392/photo/1/large |
| 12:35.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~TC@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 12:43.24 | Ackis | is there anyway to see addon loading times? e.g. foo takes 10 ms to load, bar takes 20 ms to load? |
| 12:45.15 | bluspacecow | stopwatch silly froggy man |
| 12:46.23 | cbreak | Ackis: you can print timestamps between each ADDON_LOADED event |
| 12:47.39 | Ackis | has been stuck on the load screen at about 90% since he asked that question. :( |
| 12:48.10 | bluspacecow | you need to be less … you know at it |
| 12:49.13 | Ackis | :( |
| 12:49.16 | bluspacecow | less |
| 12:49.18 | bluspacecow | french |
| 12:49.25 | bluspacecow | yeah thats it :P |
| 12:50.42 | Ackis | tu est marde |
| 12:51.11 | bluspacecow | hmmm |
| 12:51.21 | *** join/#wowuidev nailertn (~nailertn@BC241DC3.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 12:51.28 | bluspacecow | check for connections to realm server and login server. |
| 12:51.43 | Ackis | when ever you make fun of me bluspacecow I just remember that you fuck sheep ;) |
| 12:51.55 | bluspacecow | lol |
| 12:52.53 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem_ (~Darrin@c-24-10-17-129.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 12:53.32 | Ackis | how does one check connections to the login/realm server? tracert's? |
| 12:53.52 | bluspacecow | netstat -n | grep 3724 |
| 12:54.00 | bluspacecow | netstat -n | grep 1119 |
| 12:54.02 | bluspacecow | :P |
| 12:54.27 | cbreak | lsof -i maybe |
| 12:54.40 | Ackis | bluspacecow: it says: bluspacecow is an aussie |
| 12:54.43 | Ackis | not sure what that means |
| 12:54.46 | bluspacecow | that works |
| 12:54.48 | bluspacecow | well |
| 12:55.06 | bluspacecow | the silly aussies claimed NZ as a state of Australia last week |
| 12:55.21 | Ackis | I'm assuming I do this while I'm stuck on the load screen? |
| 12:55.23 | bluspacecow | wehn we were further up the olypics chain |
| 12:55.28 | bluspacecow | yeah |
| 12:55.47 | cbreak | bluspacecow: australia is getting very close to china lately |
| 12:55.59 | cbreak | so I guess they imitate china and what they do with taiwan |
| 12:56.07 | [Wobin] | <cbreak> no one who has not seen the original AV should complain about BG queue times <-- That generally gives noobs the excuse to complain =P |
| 12:56.25 | bluspacecow | oh hai2u wobiny wobin one |
| 12:56.28 | [Wobin] | wait, NZ isn't an Eastern State? |
| 12:56.36 | bluspacecow | lul |
| 12:56.40 | [Wobin] | It's practically a domestic flight =P |
| 12:56.54 | Ackis | the land of sheep and honey |
| 12:57.11 | [Wobin] | I'm going to end up in NZ next year |
| 12:57.35 | bluspacecow | come over and go on our benefit :P |
| 12:57.41 | [Wobin] | for a short transit through Invercargill |
| 12:57.51 | Ackis | would love to go to NZ but I'm banned |
| 12:58.07 | bluspacecow | what'd you do :P |
| 12:58.18 | Ackis | wouldn't have sex with the sheep |
| 12:58.20 | [Wobin] | That's like being banned from Canada |
| 12:58.50 | Ackis | it's easy to get banned from Canada, just be like the westboro baptist church |
| 12:59.05 | [Wobin] | nty |
| 12:59.09 | nailertn | Is there multi line select in the wow console? I need the output of cvarlist but can only select one line at a time. |
| 12:59.12 | [Wobin] | or Fox News |
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| 12:59.44 | cbreak | nailertn: you can make your own text edit box |
| 13:00.35 | nailertn | i'll do that, thanks |
| 13:02.32 | Gnarfoz | oO |
| 13:02.39 | Gnarfoz | you can make your own text edit box for the wow console? |
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| 13:30.23 | mckenziemc | hey ~stolenleg |
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| 14:34.24 | haste | hey Fisker |
| 14:34.29 | Fisker | hey haste |
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| 14:45.37 | Shirik | holy crap |
| 14:45.51 | Shirik | browsing deviant art, see an image "I know I've seen that before..." |
| 14:46.13 | Shirik | http://jonboy007007.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=96#/d2dmoad |
| 14:46.15 | Shirik | http://www.tcgbrowser.com/#!/cardid=2210 |
| 14:50.15 | Adys | hehe |
| 14:52.36 | bluspacecow | nice boobs |
| 14:53.05 | bluspacecow | i sleepy shirik |
| 14:53.09 | bluspacecow | *sleeps on shirik* |
| 14:53.16 | Shirik | night night |
| 14:53.16 | Amarande | heh, 15.6% of GameFAQs users answered the poll today (in re the Blizzard hack) with "I'm carefree, I don't care if my accounts get hacked or not" |
| 14:54.24 | Shirik | you know, even though Blizzard got hacked, everyone's missing the more important issue here |
| 14:54.29 | Shirik | A COMPANY ACTUALLY GOT SECURITY DETAILS RIGHT |
| 14:54.34 | Adys | yea |
| 14:54.42 | Shirik | after all this crap about people storing plaintext passwords and what not |
| 14:54.47 | Shirik | Blizzard can just go "meh, we got hacked, whatever" |
| 14:55.03 | Adys | Shirik: and dickwads blaming dickwards because srp "is not secure" apparently |
| 14:55.17 | Shirik | yeah well most people on the internet don't know what they're talking about |
| 14:59.56 | foxlit | Adys: legitimate! |
| 15:01.28 | foxlit | though I suppose it depends on the finer points of how that blaming is phrased. |
| 15:05.36 | Amarande | Also, in re said poll we're talking GameFAQs, the community that no matter how many times they're offered other options practically requires something on the level of the threat of global thermonuclear war to elect anything other than Link, Cloud, or Sephiroth as the best video game character :P |
| 15:05.54 | Amarande | Although there was that one year. :) |
| 15:06.21 | Amarande | The one where everyone got so sick of that same result pattern year in, year out, that they managed to get the L-shaped block from Tetris nominated as a "character" in the polls and it actually won heh |
| 15:07.39 | Amarande | No, I'm not sure why it's the L-shaped block. I'm guessing that the square one is too boring, and that the S and Z blocks are universally hated, but I don't know about T-block, and I'm not sure why it wouldn't just be I-block anyway given that that's the one everyone actually wants in Tetris :) |
| 15:16.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Ingela (~Ingela@90-230-166-154-no35.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 15:23.02 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 15:23.08 | Shirik | hey Fisker |
| 15:23.45 | Fisker | it was funny |
| 15:23.54 | Fisker | we discussed it on the IGCS forums on EU |
| 15:24.23 | Fisker | and some guy said, contrary to what i said, that they wouldn't be targetting single accounts but using rainbow tables to target them all at once |
| 15:24.35 | Fisker | i tried to explain to him why rainbow tables doesn't work |
| 15:24.53 | cbreak | best video game character: Lucca from Crono Trigger. |
| 15:25.27 | Fisker | at some point he even claimed that using the "salt file" they could basically reverse the "password file" with it |
| 15:25.30 | Fisker | ugh |
| 15:25.49 | Fisker | btw Shirik |
| 15:25.54 | Fisker | want a lot of kix scripts? |
| 15:26.11 | Fisker | also Adys do you know how they store secret question/answers? |
| 15:26.30 | Adys | Would guess encryption, no hashing |
| 15:26.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@173-8-135-209-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 15:26.34 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 15:26.44 | cbreak | I'd guess clear text. |
| 15:26.51 | cbreak | because companies are stupid like that |
| 15:27.20 | Adys | id hazard blizzard is not |
| 15:27.41 | Amarande | Fisker: well, it's probably a good thing for the world that a lot of potential hackers are dumb |
| 15:27.42 | Adys | out of all things blizzard is stupid with and guilty of in their infrastructure, security seems to be their priority |
| 15:27.48 | nevcairiel | it has to be a reversible encryption because its used in phone support |
| 15:27.51 | cbreak | they have secret questions which is dumb to begin with |
| 15:28.04 | Adys | my bank has secret questions |
| 15:28.05 | Adys | hell |
| 15:28.12 | Fisker | well nevcairiel it doesn't have to? |
| 15:28.13 | cbreak | so, what's that secret question? |
| 15:28.14 | nevcairiel | cant expect the phone support guy to get the spelling 100% correct for the hash to match |
| 15:28.23 | Fisker | tolower() and hash it? :P |
| 15:28.29 | Fisker | and it would just work like a password |
| 15:28.37 | Adys | hsbc has three secret questions, I only need to answer one to get identified on the phone |
| 15:28.47 | Adys | why three you say? |
| 15:28.52 | Adys | because "it's more secure" |
| 15:29.00 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 15:29.06 | Fisker | i personally think that SQ/SA should be removed |
| 15:29.07 | nevcairiel | Fisker: asking the phone support guy to possibly get a whole sentence spelled correctly would never work out |
| 15:29.13 | nevcairiel | hey maybe even you mispelled |
| 15:29.23 | Fisker | i'm way more comfortable with using phone/government id as proof it's you |
| 15:29.51 | Amarande | nev: yeah, this is why I will never even buy a plane ticket on the phone. especially since you can't fix spelling errors on a plane ticket, and my name is easily misspelled so it would pretty much be like taking 300 bucks to vegas |
| 15:30.28 | nevcairiel | but what can you really do with the secret question? I heard from plenty people that lost their authenticator and eventhough they knew all the details it was hell to get it removed |
| 15:31.02 | Iriel | I agree that secret question answers would almost certainly be stored plaintext |
| 15:31.03 | Fisker | i believe it's knowing the serial and the SQ/SA for the authenticator |
| 15:31.09 | Iriel | (having designed similar systems) |
| 15:31.16 | cbreak | secret questions are worthless |
| 15:31.21 | cbreak | they have maybe 8 different ones |
| 15:31.24 | nevcairiel | yeah i hate the whole concept |
| 15:31.27 | cbreak | so barely 3 bit of entropy |
| 15:31.37 | Iriel | they're not considered "password quality" from a fidelity perspective, due to considerations like phone support, as suggested earlier. |
| 15:31.42 | nevcairiel | they never really apply to me, and even if they did, so easy to social engineer |
| 15:31.44 | cbreak | and usually you don't even have to guess the question |
| 15:31.45 | Fisker | yeah if you answer truthfully to SQ/SA's you're basically fucked all over if they just compromise it one place |
| 15:31.58 | Iriel | They're not 'worthless" but they have limited protection for sure. |
| 15:31.58 | Amarande | Yeah, I'm never quite sure why they don't let you pick your own question out of the ether instead of just picking one from a canned list |
| 15:32.10 | Iriel | Most phone support related things are just part of a larger process |
| 15:32.12 | Amarande | Hell, you even get to pick the test question when you send money through Western Union and use one |
| 15:32.15 | cbreak | Iriel: they are an additional entry point |
| 15:32.17 | Adys | google's the only company that got secret questions right, and thats after having had fuckbillions of gmail hacks |
| 15:32.23 | cbreak | so by definition they reduce the security |
| 15:32.24 | Iriel | (such as caller ID, asking for personal information, billing details, etc) |
| 15:32.28 | nevcairiel | google has secret questions? |
| 15:32.32 | Adys | yes |
| 15:32.44 | nevcairiel | i dont remember giving them any |
| 15:32.51 | Amarande | anyway, time to take the day off from wow and give my PS3 some love |
| 15:32.51 | Adys | they only let you answer with a secret question after the account has been inactive for a long time, AND ask you for additional account details, AND manually review them |
| 15:32.53 | Iriel | cbreak: sure, but the alternative is that you have to throw away your wow account if you forget your password |
| 15:33.06 | cbreak | nevcairiel: they probably just ask you what you ate for breakfast and check their logs to verify |
| 15:33.13 | nevcairiel | makes sense! |
| 15:33.21 | cbreak | Iriel: usually accounts are bound to an email address |
| 15:33.22 | nevcairiel | that would actually be quite clever |
| 15:33.24 | nevcairiel | :D |
| 15:33.30 | Iriel | so you used your work email, and got laid off |
| 15:33.36 | cbreak | change it. |
| 15:33.46 | nevcairiel | but you lost your password the same day! |
| 15:33.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@host86-181-109-30.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:33.54 | Iriel | And your password was written on a sticky on your desk? |
| 15:34.01 | Adys | ah i disgress |
| 15:34.14 | cbreak | Iriel: steal the desk |
| 15:34.23 | Adys | it appears google doesn't let you answer with secret questions, they're just an *additional* security question asked during the process |
| 15:34.25 | cbreak | or send blizz a copy of your ID |
| 15:34.26 | Adys | the way it should be ^ |
| 15:34.47 | Adys | jesus |
| 15:34.53 | Adys | you're asked for a truckload of shit |
| 15:34.55 | nevcairiel | they used to require a photo/scan of the original box with the cdkey, b ut with digital purchases thats out too |
| 15:35.19 | Iriel | It's just naive to assume that there's a way to achive a "perfect' system in which every means of authentication is fully encrypted and non-reversible and in which there are no processes by which less well protected information can be used to obtain access in case of loss. |
| 15:36.01 | cbreak | a secure shared secret would be much better than the current easily guessable ones |
| 15:36.08 | Iriel | At least, in any arena in which "customers" (as distinct from users) and something of financial value is involved. |
| 15:36.13 | cbreak | I mean, what kind of idiot uses public information as shared secret? |
| 15:36.18 | cbreak | it should be randomly generated |
| 15:36.30 | cbreak | a small 1kb file that you get via email on account creation maybe |
| 15:36.43 | Iriel | Do you use securely generated answers to security questions istead of the correct ones? |
| 15:36.46 | cbreak | or even a pdf with a QR Code |
| 15:36.49 | Iriel | Consistently? |
| 15:36.54 | cbreak | yes |
| 15:37.02 | cbreak | most of the time I don't even remember them |
| 15:37.10 | nevcairiel | My problem is that i do that and then forget the answers! |
| 15:37.21 | cbreak | I just awpeoufrapwoeuhfapowefhpaowieghpaoweighapweoghapweghawpeigjw on the keyboard |
| 15:37.22 | Iriel | I was going to say "good for you" but now I have to replace that with ? |
| 15:37.35 | Iriel | Okay, so you just remove your ability to recover access |
| 15:37.44 | cbreak | via this way, yes |
| 15:37.52 | cbreak | that's the point :) |
| 15:37.54 | Adys | I usually use a card number from back in high school I have memorised |
| 15:38.11 | Adys | its really just a second password at that point |
| 15:38.25 | nevcairiel | SWTOR was crazy in that regard, it required like 5 SQ/SAs, so f'ing annoying |
| 15:38.49 | nevcairiel | i just bought their damn authenticator to stop it asking me those questions on login |
| 15:39.04 | Adys | but then again theres the companies that completely go retarded on that. like "What is the postcode of your birth city" and then validate it with "This is not a valid postcode" |
| 15:39.19 | kd3 | hahaha: "Well... that's interesting. It appears most of your ancestors died in a fire. Oh my." |
| 15:39.21 | Adys | let alone how retarded that question is |
| 15:39.30 | cbreak | Adys: how do they know what a valid post code is? |
| 15:39.42 | Iriel | There are Address Validation services |
| 15:39.44 | cbreak | apparently stuff like K5N 7ZX is a post code over in the UK |
| 15:39.46 | Adys | cbreak: they just assume you were born in france |
| 15:39.55 | cbreak | hmm. Sounds productive. |
| 15:39.58 | Adys | cbreak: the UK has a very consistent postcode scheme |
| 15:40.01 | nevcairiel | yeah the UK have weird zip codes |
| 15:40.10 | cbreak | Adys: inconsistent with every other place on earth :) |
| 15:40.11 | Iriel | Postal Codes, not Zip Codes |
| 15:40.12 | nevcairiel | consistent with themself, not with the rest of the world |
| 15:40.26 | Iriel | the US is fairly internally consistent too |
| 15:40.33 | cbreak | here we just have a 4 digit number |
| 15:40.43 | Adys | cbreak: every place on earth is inconsistent with the others |
| 15:40.53 | cbreak | Adys: yes. |
| 15:40.54 | Adys | france has its own system, the uk has its own system, the us has its own system |
| 15:40.56 | cbreak | so happy validating |
| 15:41.03 | nevcairiel | we have a 5 digit number, and the first two digits specify a certain area you're in |
| 15:41.11 | nevcairiel | works well :p |
| 15:41.21 | Adys | FYI cbreak |
| 15:41.22 | Adys | http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/media/291293/bs7666-v2-0.xml |
| 15:41.27 | Adys | UK postcode reference |
| 15:41.32 | Adys | british standard 7666 |
| 15:41.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Monolit (~Strigoy@89.112.4.92.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 15:41.39 | Iriel | Some places dont even have reliable mailing addresses, so all the places above are friendly. |
| 15:42.04 | Iriel | One of the challenges with postal codes is that they change over time (zip codes also) |
| 15:42.20 | Iriel | So validating 'birth postal code' was a pretty dumb decision |
| 15:42.41 | Iriel | Probably from the same sort of developer who gives you a 20 character field for a credit card number and then an error when you put spaces in. |
| 15:42.42 | Iriel | Idiots. |
| 15:43.01 | Iriel | (pet peeve, in case you couldn't tell) |
| 15:43.22 | cbreak | Mac OS X 10.7, when encrypting your disk with FileVault, gives you a long alpha-numeric string to copy down as recovery key |
| 15:43.37 | Iriel | cbreak: That is not practical for "regular consumer' use. |
| 15:43.43 | cbreak | I don't see why online services can't do the same. Maybe as small text file or pdf as I wrote above |
| 15:43.53 | Iriel | While your suggestions are technically valid they dont solve the real-world use cases |
| 15:43.55 | cbreak | "Store this file securely or print it out" |
| 15:43.56 | nevcairiel | wasnt it FileVault that stored the key in some log file or something |
| 15:44.03 | cbreak | nevcairiel: nah |
| 15:44.08 | cbreak | that was the login key |
| 15:44.28 | cbreak | usually the same, but it was because of logging in |
| 15:44.43 | cbreak | it was an issue with legacy file vault ( the pre 10.6 version) on 10.6 |
| 15:44.44 | nevcairiel | At least the authenticator gives you a alphanumeric key for recovery |
| 15:45.06 | nevcairiel | wonder how many people bother to write that down |
| 15:45.45 | kd3 | my blizz auth recovery code's in an encrypted directory on my desktop |
| 15:45.48 | Iriel | I would imagine most do the /second/ time, after having to wait on phone support to get back to their accounts after their first phone wipe / device loss. |
| 15:45.49 | kd3 | useful when I'm flashing my phone |
| 15:45.57 | nevcairiel | i have it in my keepass database |
| 15:46.16 | Adys | I have my secret stored as plaintext on my gmail account |
| 15:46.17 | Adys | >< |
| 15:46.28 | nevcairiel | i used to do that, until i got keepass |
| 15:46.33 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@68.36.135.0) |
| 15:46.38 | nevcairiel | ... and the keepass db i store on google drive |
| 15:46.39 | Adys | i should probably store the recovery code instead now that i actually can |
| 15:46.41 | nevcairiel | but w/e! |
| 15:49.22 | cbreak | I was thinking of using last pass |
| 15:49.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@host86-181-109-30.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:49.30 | cbreak | but not convinced if the service is trustworthy |
| 15:49.52 | nevcairiel | syncing the passwords is always the annoying part |
| 15:49.54 | Adys | why not run your own version of it |
| 15:49.58 | nevcairiel | the google drive thing works OK so far |
| 15:50.15 | [Wobin] | I dislike preset 'secret questions' |
| 15:50.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaylin (~Kaylin@c-98-203-233-187.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 15:50.38 | [Wobin] | especially when the answer for me is less than the 5 letters seemingly required for the answer =P |
| 15:51.16 | cbreak | "Favorite food: 09WVWrvmSuvyI0F9oSZBLrKZCJf", "Mother's maiden name: IIQENfrDsWG+Ifm7X72AWW0eJ8N" |
| 15:51.18 | [Wobin] | Don't ask me what my mother's birth town is, if you're not going to accept the answer =P |
| 15:51.44 | [Wobin] | cbreak: I bet she was glad to change her name after marriage. I'd hate to have to sign -that- all the time |
| 15:51.57 | cbreak | that's what nicknames are for. |
| 15:52.03 | nevcairiel | the food sounds yummy |
| 15:52.05 | [Wobin] | IIQ for short =) |
| 15:52.23 | Adys | Who's up for an IIQ BBQ? |
| 15:52.28 | nevcairiel | Heck i wouldnt know what to truthfully answer to the question of favorite food |
| 15:52.37 | cbreak | pizza. |
| 15:52.46 | Adys | Magnets, bitch. |
| 15:52.47 | cbreak | PIZZA. |
| 15:52.48 | nevcairiel | something like that may also change over time |
| 15:52.52 | cbreak | curry. |
| 15:52.56 | cbreak | no, wait, ice cream. |
| 15:53.12 | nevcairiel | i would probably go with spaghetti right now, but who knows what its next week! |
| 15:53.27 | cbreak | did you hear of the apple secret question dissaster last week? |
| 15:53.53 | Iriel | Both apple and amazon had pretty broken processes |
| 15:53.58 | cbreak | some social engineers called apple to reset an account password. And answered every single secret question wrong. |
| 15:54.02 | Iriel | Apple's was the most obviously stupid tho |
| 15:54.12 | cbreak | then apple gave them a reset code, and they proceeded to wipe the owner's devices. |
| 15:54.37 | nevcairiel | why do they bother asking, appearances to get the stupid ones out? :p |
| 15:54.49 | Iriel | The problem with apple is that they accepted the LAST 4 DIGITS of someone's credit card as an authenticator |
| 15:55.02 | Iriel | (i.e. the part that's most easy to get hold of) |
| 15:55.13 | cbreak | yeah. a total of 13 bit of entropy |
| 15:55.23 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy1 (~Mike@68.36.135.0) |
| 15:55.26 | cbreak | since when are credit card numbers private? |
| 15:55.29 | Iriel | The entropy isn't really the problem here |
| 15:55.32 | cbreak | they are printed on top of the card |
| 15:55.34 | [Wobin] | cbreak: they already had access to the email, they already knew the numbers |
| 15:56.00 | cbreak | I know. But still... it's not like the numbers are a good authentication property |
| 15:56.12 | Iriel | They had access to his Amazon account |
| 15:56.15 | [Wobin] | well, it's technically a physical access thing |
| 15:56.30 | [Wobin] | people usually notice if their credit card is missing |
| 15:56.35 | Iriel | (which they got by getting a new credit card added to it, a process that DIDNT require authentication, then using that new credit card as an authentication for a password reset) |
| 15:56.39 | cbreak | doesn't need to be missing |
| 15:56.45 | [Wobin] | Iriel: haha, terrible |
| 15:56.51 | cbreak | you can just go around in a restaurant and look at the numbers of other people |
| 15:57.00 | [Wobin] | "I will authenticate myself using a method I added in myself" |
| 15:57.04 | cbreak | or look at them in the queue of a shop if they pay with card |
| 15:57.12 | Iriel | Yeah, I thought that was pretty awesome. |
| 15:57.45 | Iriel | People are /somewhat/ protective of credit cards, because they are "sort of money" |
| 15:57.54 | Iriel | but yes, they're not /that/ hard to obtain |
| 15:57.57 | [Wobin] | cbreak: if I saw someone checking out my credit card, I'd probably poke them in the eye |
| 15:58.06 | cbreak | I doubt that |
| 15:58.07 | Iriel | However a particular target's credit card might be harder. |
| 15:58.23 | cbreak | you can not track the eye movements of dozens of people in the queue of a super market |
| 15:58.24 | Iriel | There's a difference between getting any credit card, and say, MY credit card. |
| 15:58.52 | [Wobin] | cbreak: My credit card number is not exposed for a great amount of time, and usually only at an angle useful to the card reader, which I cover with my body |
| 15:59.10 | [Wobin] | you're not going to effectively scrape a CC number from 5m away behind me |
| 15:59.35 | Iriel | More to the point, you're unlikely to be 5m behind Wobin |
| 15:59.37 | [Wobin] | and it's not like people wave them around then hold them -realllly- still so others can read it |
| 15:59.42 | Iriel | unless you're really determined |
| 15:59.49 | [Wobin] | looks behind him |
| 15:59.52 | Iriel | and at that point you're more likely to smash his window when he's not home, or pick his locks |
| 15:59.57 | nevcairiel | 5m is quite a distance for something as small as a credit card anyway |
| 15:59.57 | cbreak | no worries wobin |
| 16:00.01 | cbreak | no one is 5 m in front of me |
| 16:00.30 | [Wobin] | Iriel: which would be an interesting task, as I'm 10 floors up above a busy interchange =) |
| 16:00.48 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@68.36.135.0) |
| 16:00.57 | Iriel | Wobin: You need to watch more action movies! |
| 16:01.08 | Iriel | Wobin: Tom Cruise could swing in through your window any day now |
| 16:01.12 | [Wobin] | I've totally considered getting a flying fox strung down to ground level |
| 16:01.16 | [Wobin] | since I live above the train station |
| 16:01.33 | cbreak | tom cruise couldn't even change his diapers without the OK of his scientology masters |
| 16:02.42 | Adys | http://i.imgur.com/YN5Lz.jpg |
| 16:02.45 | Adys | time for some hyjal dailies |
| 16:02.53 | nevcairiel | hahaha |
| 16:02.56 | kd3 | haha |
| 16:03.31 | AcidWeb | lol ;d |
| 16:04.37 | [Wobin] | hm |
| 16:04.51 | [Wobin] | 10% into the holiday photos, already 40 pages into the book |
| 16:04.58 | [Wobin] | this could get problematic |
| 16:05.29 | [Wobin] | starts pruning more photos out of the pool |
| 16:05.59 | cbreak | two books. |
| 16:06.15 | [Wobin] | ... I -could- do that, but it's awkward |
| 16:06.56 | [Wobin] | also, people's attention span when it comes to holiday photos is already pretty limited |
| 16:06.59 | Thunder_Child | Virtual book instead? |
| 16:07.06 | [Wobin] | nah, it's a gift |
| 16:07.24 | [Wobin] | and the physical book is just that much cooler |
| 16:07.33 | Thunder_Child | flash drive with a bow |
| 16:08.33 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@68.36.135.0) |
| 16:08.41 | [Wobin] | Just wait til next year =\ |
| 16:08.49 | [Wobin] | One month worth of penguin photos |
| 16:09.34 | [Wobin] | anyway, bedtime |
| 16:09.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~TC@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 16:11.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Drool (~drool@109.144.149.109) |
| 16:21.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@host86-181-104-36.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:24.33 | Ackis | Shirik: you're on my mind, I meant to write shrink and I wrote your name instead |
| 16:24.41 | *** join/#wowuidev quse (~quse@c-69-242-129-11.hsd1.mo.comcast.net) |
| 16:26.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~TC@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 16:27.49 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@68.36.135.0) |
| 16:35.27 | Ackis | I found ghostcrawler but couldn't tame him because I'm only level 84 :( |
| 16:44.36 | Adys | http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1523379957/oculus-rift-step-into-the-game?ref=history |
| 16:44.36 | Adys | grm |
| 16:44.39 | Adys | to back or not to back |
| 16:45.04 | Iriel | I did |
| 16:45.09 | Iriel | right before it exploded with backing |
| 16:45.10 | Adys | how much? |
| 16:45.21 | Iriel | The one that got me an assembled developer kit |
| 16:45.44 | Adys | $300? |
| 16:45.49 | Adys | im very, very tempted |
| 16:45.52 | Iriel | Sounds about right |
| 16:46.06 | Iriel | I've been waiting for an affordable non-lame VR headset for over 20 years 8-) |
| 16:47.01 | Adys | i think ill back it but im still waiting a few days |
| 16:59.01 | Adys | so victor from Breaking Bad will be doing an AMA on /r/breakingbad |
| 16:59.29 | Adys | i find it quite incredible how that subreddit managed to get almost the entire main cast to do one |
| 17:04.45 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@50.46.154.78) |
| 17:07.10 | Arrowmaster | im guessing the rift will retail cheaper because theyll be able to mass produce it and have a lot of demand since theyll already have it in the hands of lots of devs making games for it |
| 17:07.19 | Arrowmaster | theyve avoided the chicken egg situation |
| 17:09.33 | Iriel | Arrowmaster: I suspect that's the idea, yes |
| 17:09.47 | Iriel | I hope it takes off |
| 17:10.42 | Iriel | A retail model could well have better specifications also, if it's popular |
| 17:23.09 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 17:26.47 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: http://www.digitaltrends.com/apple/innovate-or-stagnate-why-your-next-phone-will-suck-if-samsung-beats-apple/ |
| 17:26.48 | Vladinator | I have nothing against oculus rift, but with my poor eye sight I think I will stick to regular displays. :D |
| 17:27.37 | Arrowmaster | everybody in the channel is going to hate me for doing that |
| 17:27.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~TC@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 17:27.59 | Vladinator | I don't. |
| 17:28.33 | Vladinator | But I think it's a POV so I dont think the next phone will suck if samsung "beats" apple, hehe. :D |
| 17:29.41 | kd3 | oh, geez, an enderle post? |
| 17:29.46 | kd3 | wasn't he in sco's pocket? |
| 17:29.47 | Iriel | I dont buy the underlying premise |
| 17:30.04 | Vladinator | Hi Iriel :) |
| 17:30.32 | kd3 | yup |
| 17:30.37 | kd3 | tunes it out |
| 17:30.40 | Iriel | One could argue the opposite, that it spurs innovation because companies can't do something innovative then sit back and corner the market |
| 17:33.06 | Vladinator | I am curious, if I wish to design and sell a mouse, I don't need any permission from others right? I mean, I just take paper and draw my design and start producing, or? |
| 17:33.24 | Iriel | Vladinator: I suspect it depends on what patents are out there |
| 17:34.23 | Iriel | If you designed one from the ground up, including having your own novel sensing mechanism nobody else has ever built, you'd probably be ok |
| 17:34.32 | Vladinator | I wonder if someone has a patent on the barebone basics for a mouse. :P |
| 17:34.44 | kd3 | if you have to ask, the answer is "of course" |
| 17:34.58 | Iriel | Not that you wouldn't have to pay lawyers to fend off opportunistic patent shakedowns |
| 17:35.08 | Iriel | Cost of doing buisiness, etc etc |
| 17:35.15 | AcidWeb | Vladinator: But you cant call it mouse because most probably somebody already patented "m" letter. ;] |
| 17:35.40 | Iriel | AcidWeb: that'd be a trademark |
| 17:36.35 | *** join/#wowuidev |Paradox| (~iamparado@c-71-62-18-35.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 17:36.39 | Iriel | A patent is "A method for advancing ones character progression by repeatedly killing the same mobs over and over" |
| 17:36.44 | Iriel | A trademark is calling it Grinding(TM) |
| 17:37.02 | pompy | oh wow, Iran just got hit with 2 big ones within 11 minutes . http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/10/45_40.php |
| 17:37.17 | AcidWeb | Thank you for clarification Professor Iriel |
| 17:37.19 | pompy | http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/usb000bupa.php |
| 17:37.27 | Iriel | The distinction is important, so you're welcome |
| 17:38.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~TC@99-50-80-110.lightspeed.lsanca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:38.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~TC@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 17:39.46 | Vladinator | Imagine Thomas Edison being sued for using electricity in his design of the light bulb. I think these patent wars slow innovation, especially the companies that buy a tong of patents just so no one else can use the idea, regardless if they use it themselves or not :P |
| 17:40.05 | Vladinator | (Just adding to the innovation part some lines above.) |
| 17:41.06 | Arrowmaster | that anology is so wrong on so many levels |
| 17:41.28 | Kaylin | in b4 tesla vs edison |
| 17:41.48 | Arrowmaster | edison was a business man not an inventor |
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| 17:42.06 | Elkano | and Tesla was just awsome |
| 17:42.25 | Arrowmaster | crazy but awesome |
| 17:42.29 | Iriel | Elkano: and crazy |
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| 17:42.52 | Elkano | you hardly can have one without the other |
| 17:43.09 | Elkano | at least in one direction |
| 17:44.48 | Arrowmaster | when i have kids there will be hell to pay if they are told in school that 'edison invented the lightbulb' or 'dispite everybody else believing the world was flat, columbus believed the world was round and set off to sail around the world to india'' |
| 17:45.41 | Arrowmaster | columbus is historys most famious and luckiest dumbass |
| 17:46.00 | Elkano | Columbus would have saved so much time if he just boarded a plain... |
| 17:46.13 | Elkano | s/plain/plane/ |
| 17:46.43 | Vladinator | About the light bulb there were many candidates so I just picked one of them in my example, anyway. My point was more that, new ideas are based on old ideas and practices, so if that's patentet you have a problem, you can't really do much with your idea. |
| 17:47.23 | Vladinator | A recent example is Apple wanting to patent the swipe to unlock, and trying to make it so that no one can have a "move finger on surface to unlock" mechanic in their phones, pretty much benching everyone else who want to make a touch screen phone with a easy unlock feature. :P |
| 17:48.58 | Dagmar | That's what patents are for |
| 17:49.09 | Dagmar | They're for getting in everyone else's way. |
| 17:49.49 | Dagmar | They fucked it up in the 80's when they took out the independent innovation exceptions and a few other key bits |
| 17:50.14 | Dagmar | Now, it's nothing but a means for hindering progress |
| 17:50.19 | Vladinator | Yeah. |
| 17:50.31 | Vladinator | Double edge knife, but mostly hindering progress when utilized by the big companies. |
| 17:50.39 | Iriel | Dagmar: that and extracting money from those who are more successful than you |
| 17:50.55 | Dagmar | It's not limited to big companies. Tiny little ten-man law firms can join in and fuck things up as well |
| 17:51.22 | Iriel | They're actually the worst |
| 17:51.29 | Iriel | because they have nothing to los |
| 17:51.31 | Iriel | +e |
| 17:51.50 | Iriel | their entire business model can be built on getting in people's way and hoping that it's cheaper for the company to settle than fight |
| 17:51.50 | Dagmar | Apple is just being ludicrous to the point where if I had a macbook, I'd be switching back to PC |
| 17:52.15 | Dagmar | They've literally been in court arguing that they came up with the idea of tablets |
| 17:52.35 | Dagmar | I'm pretty fucking sure I saw Jean Luc Picard using them on Star Trek about ten fucking years ealier |
| 17:52.56 | Vladinator | It's silly because ideas are based on other ideas, you can't have a good invention out of thin air in one swing, there is a chain of ideas that lead to the good once. I.e. light bulb had like 20 people working on it to make it happen. :P |
| 17:52.59 | cbreak | I don't think so |
| 17:53.23 | Kaylin | in b4 we find out apple has pattented a method for harassing people in the US court system using absurd laws and patent claims. |
| 17:53.26 | Vladinator | (*over like 100 years in total) |
| 17:53.41 | Dagmar | You actually can have a good idea in one swing, but trying to act like you invented something that was part of someone else's fiction is ludicrous |
| 17:55.30 | Kaylin | you didn't build that! or something >_> |
| 17:56.29 | Dagmar | Since the UFP didn't file a patent claim, Apple is free to pretend they invented it |
| 17:56.35 | Iriel | Kaylin: I think someone DID patent that, it might have been IBM |
| 17:56.52 | Dagmar | I actually had to go _find out_ why the fuck someone wasn't rolling an AV cart into the courtroom to show some episodes of ST:TNG |
| 17:57.20 | Iriel | Dagmar: Sure, but then if apple sues the defendant can simply roll the cart in and show prior art |
| 17:57.31 | Kaylin | yup |
| 17:57.37 | Dagmar | There _is_ prior art |
| 17:57.59 | Iriel | Now all you need to do is convince the east texas jury |
| 17:58.00 | cbreak | if you patent something, you have to provide your own patent research |
| 17:58.17 | cbreak | if you don't list patents that you based your own work on, then you are risking that your own patent will be invalidated |
| 17:58.24 | Iriel | The problem is that under current law, the defendant still has to pay their own legal fees |
| 17:58.36 | cbreak | that's normal. |
| 17:58.38 | Iriel | so you come up and say "Hey, we'll settle this for 200 thousand dollars" |
| 17:58.44 | cbreak | rich people always have advantages |
| 17:58.49 | Vladinator | Are all programs that are marketed and sold, that are coded on C++ property of those that own the patent for that programming language? :P |
| 17:59.00 | Iriel | even if your claim is /mostly/ bogus, the defendant might be looking at far more than that to mount a defense |
| 17:59.02 | cbreak | Vladinator: you can't patent a language |
| 17:59.13 | Dagmar | You can't even copyright an API, thankfully. |
| 17:59.22 | Iriel | You can patent features of a language |
| 17:59.27 | cbreak | no |
| 17:59.27 | Iriel | and you can copyright implementations of an API |
| 17:59.45 | cbreak | unless you live in weird places like the US where you can patent every garbage |
| 17:59.59 | cbreak | most of the world, software, methods and so on are not patentable |
| 17:59.59 | Dagmar | No, that came up in Oracle vs Google. |
| 18:00.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Silvanas (~bot@ip73-40-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 18:00.15 | Dagmar | Tangled threads. Bleh |
| 18:00.27 | cbreak | Iriel: luckily, copyright doesn't prevent someone from implementing his own version of an API :) |
| 18:00.34 | Iriel | cbreak: indeed |
| 18:00.36 | Vladinator | If you code a program that runs on a intel processor then you are running it on technology made by Intel, wouldn't their pattent cover your product? :P |
| 18:00.45 | cbreak | Vladinator: no |
| 18:00.45 | Iriel | Vladinator: no |
| 18:00.55 | Iriel | Especially since they sold it to you TO run programs on |
| 18:00.57 | cbreak | not even in the US. |
| 18:01.05 | Vladinator | cbreak: lol :P |
| 18:01.12 | Vladinator | "not even in the US" that made me laugh |
| 18:01.27 | cbreak | if you want to build a computer with a CPU, then you have to pay for patents concerning that CPU |
| 18:01.27 | Kaylin | me too. |
| 18:01.36 | cbreak | normally that's included in the price when you buy it |
| 18:01.57 | cbreak | but sometimes, scumbags like samsung come around |
| 18:01.57 | Iriel | Generally the manufacturer licensed the patents |
| 18:02.03 | Iriel | and you're covering their costs |
| 18:02.16 | cbreak | and think just because you buy baseband chips from broadcom for which broadcom already paid patent fees |
| 18:02.19 | *** join/#wowuidev wolftankk (~wolftankk@206.253.165.217) |
| 18:02.19 | cbreak | you have to pay for again |
| 18:02.33 | cbreak | (that came up in some lawsuits vs. apple) |
| 18:02.56 | Dagmar | Um...we dont' need to enforce the use of obscenity, I suspect. |
| 18:02.58 | Dagmar | wrong chan |
| 18:03.15 | cbreak | enforce the use of obscenity? |
| 18:03.15 | Iriel | You probably should REQUIRE obscenity though |
| 18:03.22 | Dagmar | This is what I get for typing before my screen has even reappeared (still trying to empty all the crap from my bank in TSW) |
| 18:03.32 | cbreak | "Unless you use swear words in every sentence, I WILL KICK YOU!"? :) |
| 18:03.37 | Dagmar | Yeah one of the ops in another channel just carped at someone for saying "fsck" |
| 18:03.55 | Iriel | That's nto even obscentity, simply system maintainence 8-) |
| 18:03.57 | Dagmar | I'm thinkin' "whoa... I'm trying to aim for PG-13 as an upper bounds here" |
| 18:04.05 | cbreak | fsck? That's a useful command. |
| 18:04.10 | Vladinator | I see often that we pay for the right to use something, not own it. So at any moment the owner can pull the plug. Are you sure Intel doesn't have something like that going on? :P |
| 18:04.25 | cbreak | Dagmar: maybe the channel op was FAT |
| 18:04.55 | cbreak | FAT doesn't like fsck, since it's always telling it that it's fucked. :) |
| 18:05.45 | Vladinator | I realize I am boring you, so I will go eat my dinner now. |
| 18:06.14 | cbreak | sale of goods are final |
| 18:06.27 | cbreak | renting of something is different. |
| 18:06.43 | Kaylin | like wow client? :P |
| 18:06.45 | Vladinator | You of all people should know it's not true, even Steam products, you buy something but in reality you "rent" |
| 18:07.03 | cbreak | for software it's often "license" |
| 18:07.05 | Vladinator | You "buy" on Steam but your products are lost and you can't play them again if Steam goes down or what ever. :P |
| 18:08.03 | Dagmar | Umm... Not true in the case of Steam |
| 18:08.12 | Kaylin | so I own the physical media but not my copy of the bits that make it up, pun indended :P |
| 18:08.14 | Dagmar | At least, not unless Newell wants to be sued senseless |
| 18:08.31 | Vladinator | I read something about it in the terms, and you have no right to sue or complain, e.g. :P |
| 18:08.38 | Kaylin | you still can |
| 18:08.39 | Vladinator | If in case Steam is gone and you can't access your games on it. |
| 18:08.41 | Dagmar | They said _plenty_ of times that if they ever shut down or decided to not bother with a title anymore, they'd release whatever was needed to free it from Steam |
| 18:09.30 | Vladinator | Going to eat now. Anyway was posing these more as food for thought, glad to see I got some engaged, hehe. :P |
| 18:31.15 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@69.224.70.199) |
| 18:35.26 | Silvanas | apearntly wowlua fails to properly detect the size of a string made up whit those extended ascci charecters like char 226 (the filled square) |
| 18:36.41 | Silvanas | got a string consisting of 18 of those charecters but #text returns 52 >.< |
| 18:36.59 | nevcairiel | because its storing it as utf-8 |
| 18:37.14 | nevcairiel | multibyte characters and all |
| 18:39.23 | Silvanas | 52 decided by 18 is 2.8888 so i wonder how that works out lol |
| 18:41.05 | Silvanas | i repalced the squares whit the letter X and it works, well thats quite bad for the idea i ahd, i gues i got to store the length intenraly then |
| 18:41.28 | nevcairiel | you can use the utf8 library someone created for things like length of a unicode string etc |
| 18:41.38 | Arrowmaster | Silvanas: if you want number of characters instead of number of bytes youll need to use the utf8 library |
| 18:42.02 | Silvanas | is that lib suported by wow lua ? |
| 18:42.13 | nevcairiel | you need to call different functions |
| 18:42.21 | nevcairiel | its just lua code, it works everywhere |
| 18:42.28 | Arrowmaster | i have no idea where the lib is hosted currently |
| 18:42.35 | Silvanas | ah oke lol ill google it it\ |
| 18:42.38 | nevcairiel | http://www.wowace.com/addons/utf8/ |
| 18:42.58 | Arrowmaster | well thats an easy url |
| 18:44.02 | nevcairiel | i just learned, WoW itself has strlenutf8 |
| 18:44.11 | nevcairiel | so if the only thing you need is the length, no need for the lib |
| 18:44.40 | nevcairiel | just use strlenutf8(yourstring) |
| 18:47.29 | Arrowmaster | wow also patched string.upper and string.lower |
| 18:47.55 | Arrowmaster | mostly to add cryllic support |
| 18:48.21 | Silvanas | sorry ot ask but what is cryllic? |
| 18:49.30 | Dagmar | Rooskie letters |
| 18:49.32 | Silvanas | seems like arabian in google :D |
| 18:49.33 | kd3 | ~wiki cryllic |
| 18:49.47 | kd3 | sigh |
| 18:49.50 | kd3 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryllic |
| 18:50.01 | Arrowmaster | russian alphabet |
| 18:50.41 | Silvanas | ah i, will lets see if wow also patched the strig.sub for utf8 |
| 18:53.47 | Mr_Rabies | i know on beta i could see people emoting in chinese |
| 18:54.07 | Mr_Rabies | the font changed though |
| 18:54.17 | Mr_Rabies | it was weird and blurry in comparison to the normal font |
| 18:54.35 | Mr_Rabies | seemed to only be emotes, though, when i checked |
| 18:56.56 | Arrowmaster | Silvanas: string.sub works on bytes so they shouldnt have patched it |
| 18:57.07 | Silvanas | >.< meh |
| 18:58.50 | Kaylin | my teeth work on bites too |
| 18:59.08 | mckenziemc | D: |
| 19:00.00 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-66-30-213-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 19:00.00 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 19:02.20 | alestane | So, I just did something silly. I merged the contents of a project repo into my gitolite-admin repository and pushed it without realizing until later. |
| 19:02.33 | alestane | How can I remove this commit from the server? |
| 19:02.46 | Adys | remove it locally and push -f? |
| 19:03.06 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 19:03.12 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@cpc2-craw2-0-0-cust1299.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 19:03.12 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 19:03.45 | alestane | Okay, so I've found the commit before the mistake. Please pardon the newb, first time I've had to back out a whole commit. |
| 19:03.46 | cbreak | alestane: do you want to rewrite history? |
| 19:03.49 | cbreak | I'd recommend it |
| 19:03.56 | Adys | Who *doesn't* want to rewrite history? |
| 19:03.57 | alestane | Is this "git reset"? |
| 19:03.57 | Silvanas | you can also do a revert on it and push that over it |
| 19:04.10 | cbreak | is it the last commit? |
| 19:04.17 | cbreak | or are there others in between now and that one? |
| 19:04.28 | alestane | Last two are both listed as part of the merge. |
| 19:04.40 | Silvanas | i use tortuise git ui, i dontk now the command line commands for it :D |
| 19:04.51 | cbreak | well, if you don't mind losing all since that change, just git reset --hard <goodcommit> |
| 19:05.00 | cbreak | that'll nuke everything out of history that happened after |
| 19:05.03 | alestane | I can do that. |
| 19:05.09 | cbreak | (and it'll also nuke away uncommitted stuff) |
| 19:05.25 | cbreak | Silvanas: reverting merges is a bad idea |
| 19:05.31 | cbreak | also, it won't remove the commits |
| 19:05.36 | alestane | Perfect. There were no uncommitted changes. |
| 19:05.39 | cbreak | it would only remove the change of the commit |
| 19:06.24 | alestane | That looks like it did it, thanks. |
| 19:06.46 | cbreak | next time you push you will have to force push |
| 19:07.14 | cbreak | also, make sure you didn't lose any valuable changes |
| 19:07.29 | cbreak | now you still have the reflog to recover |
| 19:09.02 | Vladinator | cyrillic not cryllic :P it's used by many countries of slavic/slave origins, not only russian, bulgarian too. ;) |
| 19:09.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~tuller@c-76-21-187-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 19:09.56 | alestane | Mongols write their language using the Cyrillic script now. |
| 19:10.19 | alestane | I hear there's a been a bit of a revival effort to restore their original script, but it hasn't taken off. |
| 19:11.15 | Vladinator | are you sure it's cyrillic? |
| 19:12.02 | Vladinator | ah yes, I see. but's a subcategory of cyrillic, but looks the same for the untrained eye :D |
| 19:12.31 | cbreak | that's like writing kanji with the original chinese glyphs! |
| 19:13.10 | alestane | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_language#Writing_systems |
| 19:15.02 | Vladinator | on the subject of alphabets, I dislike how the new mop system for fonts is, each font for each language, I mean it's okay but I hope it's compatible with fonts not specifically designed for mop |
| 19:15.29 | cbreak | each font for each language? |
| 19:15.47 | cbreak | why not just use unicode fonts and glyph substitution like OS X? |
| 19:15.59 | Vladinator | internally there are 20 font files now, of those korean, cyrillic, chinese, use their own files |
| 19:15.59 | Silvanas | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:16.18 | cbreak | Silvanas: that's the point of force pushing |
| 19:16.29 | cbreak | you WANT to cause data loss when you do it :) |
| 19:16.31 | Vladinator | cbreak: give me an example, because to me it sounds like regular unicode and it's not only on osx :p |
| 19:17.18 | Silvanas | yes indeed that why we never loose it as we never want to loose data (unless in the odd occasion where we rebase the wrong branches on top of each other) |
| 19:17.33 | cbreak | Vladinator: if I want to write 日本語版 or schzyerdütsch, I can do so |
| 19:17.43 | cbreak | no matter if the font I use has all the glyphs |
| 19:17.52 | cbreak | because the system will just take them from an other if it's missing |
| 19:17.59 | AcidWeb | MoP added ut8 aware fuctions? |
| 19:18.08 | AcidWeb | *utf8 |
| 19:18.20 | cbreak | Silvanas: yeah, or if you merge some wrong branch |
| 19:18.26 | Vladinator | I see what you meant now, cbreak. |
| 19:18.30 | cbreak | Silvanas: reverting merges is extremely hairy |
| 19:18.53 | Vladinator | AcidWeb: not sure, still think we gotta write our own functions to support utf, internally they may have API but not aware for any lua API for us |
| 19:19.13 | Silvanas | hmm yeh this is also tru |
| 19:20.33 | Silvanas | AcidWeb: do you mean the string function in mop behave different from live? |
| 19:21.04 | AcidWeb | I seen utf8 discussion. |
| 19:21.07 | Vladinator | think he just wanted to know if they natively support perhaps utf8 or not ;) |
| 19:22.00 | AcidWeb | I already implemented utf8 funcitons myself in my addons. |
| 19:23.53 | AcidWeb | OK. I read the whole conversation. No more questions :-) |
| 19:24.50 | Silvanas | oke well nicely spotted. i gues only a dev could answer it if utf8 is widely supported in mop, but ill just use the utf8 lib |
| 19:28.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Liath (~Liath@unaffiliated/liath) |
| 19:28.24 | cbreak | normal lua doesn't support utf8 |
| 19:28.29 | cbreak | but it doesn't hinder it either |
| 19:28.40 | cbreak | but I bet blizz doesn't use normal lua since several years |
| 19:28.49 | cbreak | so who knows what they did with it |
| 19:29.08 | Kaylin | wishes we could use racket instead of Lua |
| 19:29.19 | cbreak | racket? |
| 19:29.28 | cbreak | what are you, a mafiosi? |
| 19:29.28 | Kaylin | http://racket-lang.org/ |
| 19:29.32 | AcidWeb | replace lua with logo |
| 19:29.38 | AcidWeb | +1 for turtle powered uis |
| 19:29.50 | cbreak | honestly, lua is the best embedded programming language there is. |
| 19:29.57 | alestane | Is there a system for using subdirectories of a repository as repositories in their own right, or is that too complicated to do without breaking things? |
| 19:30.24 | cbreak | racket looks unusable |
| 19:30.28 | Silvanas | yeh there submodules |
| 19:30.37 | cbreak | the license is lgpl |
| 19:30.43 | Silvanas | iv never set them up but i know the exist |
| 19:31.37 | cbreak | alestane: submodules are mainly for embedding foreign repositories into your own source tree |
| 19:31.40 | Silvanas | and yes lua is awsome but sometimes i wish that i had grown a bit more instead of letting 3rd partys write thir own extension. as you cant simply load an extra liberary inb wow :D |
| 19:31.41 | cbreak | like libraries or so |
| 19:32.10 | Vladinator | blizzard have already added bit library to their core for example, so they can add more like utf8 libraries and other handy stuff |
| 19:32.11 | cbreak | alestane: using submodules for your own code will cause headaces. |
| 19:32.15 | cbreak | they are maintenance intensive |
| 19:32.29 | mckenziemc | "grown a bit more" <- one goal of lua is to be lightweigth |
| 19:32.40 | cbreak | also, submodules are full git repositories. you can not use a part of an other repo as submodule, just a complete one. |
| 19:33.27 | alestane | I'll settle for a main repo for everything then. |
| 19:33.34 | Vladinator | only thing I hate with wow is designing GUI, it's a nightmare |
| 19:34.13 | cbreak | alestane: take a look at gitslave if you want sub repos with concurrent development |
| 19:36.58 | Vladinator | I'll ask directly, anyone know of any good ways to design frames? WYSIWYG would be very nice, strange no one has made one earlier (that works now :P) |
| 19:37.40 | cbreak | text editor. |
| 19:39.44 | Dagmar | You actually probably don't want a gui for that |
| 19:39.48 | Dagmar | THe result is always a mess |
| 19:43.44 | Adys | http://insidesearch.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/search-quality-highlights-86-changes.html |
| 19:45.10 | Adys | ItsyBitsy. [project codename “Images”] To improve the quality of image results, we filter tiny, unhelpful images at the bottom of our image results pages. |
| 19:45.11 | Adys | thank god |
| 19:45.37 | Fisker | good |
| 19:49.32 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 20:11.39 | Vladinator | Dagmar: how do blizz make their ui's? :P pure coding or they got some tool? |
| 20:17.06 | Kaylin | same way I code things probably, very little sleep, lots of alcohol, and some really tight deadlines. |
| 20:17.27 | mckenziemc | nah, smoke and mirrors |
| 20:19.33 | Torhal | Vladinator: Considering their use of XML. I'd say they have a WYSIWYG tool. |
| 20:19.59 | Dagmar | I was going to say they probably started by turning down the lights and putting on some soft music |
| 20:20.14 | Kaylin | is one method (xml or pure lua) better than the other in terms of memory usage? |
| 20:20.26 | AcidWeb | Kaylin: no diffrence |
| 20:20.35 | AcidWeb | *difference |
| 20:22.41 | ccox | apparently pure coding, by interns, who were drunk at the time |
| 20:23.48 | Kaylin | so it's exactly my method :D |
| 20:28.33 | Adys | http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright/ |
| 20:28.39 | Adys | if thats not a spike wtf is it |
| 20:29.33 | Shirik | lol. |
| 20:29.34 | Shirik | Degban Ltd. |
| 20:29.34 | Shirik | 1,010,225 |
| 20:30.04 | Adys | Shirik: http://www.reddit.com/r/google/comments/y20lf/worrisome_trends_25x_increase_in_google_takedown/c5rlji0 |
| 20:41.31 | mckenziemc | i like how it shows as 25x in the URl |
| 20:41.33 | mckenziemc | URL* |
| 20:53.56 | cbreak | 25 times increase |
| 20:54.45 | mckenziemc | 2-5 |
| 21:01.56 | mikma | http://imgur.com/gallery/Tj3lT |
| 21:07.49 | foxlit | hm, there's no luaL_checkboolean? |
| 21:09.45 | Vladinator | what are you trying to accomplish? |
| 21:10.40 | foxlit | check that an argument is a boolean, get its value, and throw an error if it's not. |
| 21:10.56 | alestane | It's not typical in Lua to require that a boolean argument be supplied in boolean form only. |
| 21:11.05 | Vladinator | type() checks and gives you if its a boolean or not |
| 21:11.28 | Vladinator | !lua type(true) |
| 21:11.29 | batbot | Vladinator: > boolean |
| 21:11.29 | mckenziemc | he's obviously doing this outside the lua environment |
| 21:11.37 | alestane | He's trying to work from the C side. |
| 21:11.40 | Vladinator | ah |
| 21:11.50 | foxlit | alestane: the internet agrees with you and suggests doing lua_toboolean |
| 21:11.54 | Vladinator | well, then the question is if C has a boolean function :D |
| 21:11.56 | alestane | One can use lua_isboolean() to confirm. |
| 21:12.04 | foxlit | I'm thinking of throwing in a luaL_checkany() beforehand. |
| 21:12.10 | Vladinator | what library are you writing? |
| 21:12.18 | alestane | But it's rarely useful to say, "This MUST be a boolean." |
| 21:12.36 | alestane | Since every value in Lua has an assigned truthiness already. |
| 21:12.43 | mckenziemc | i didn't mean that to sound condescending |
| 21:13.07 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~p3lim@32.9.9.46.customer.cdi.no) |
| 21:13.20 | Vladinator | It's okay, I am used to it. |
| 21:13.25 | foxlit | Vladinator: just using Lua to handle configuration/output in an unrelated project. |
| 21:13.49 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@68.36.135.0) |
| 21:14.00 | Vladinator | I didn't know p3lim is norwegian :P |
| 21:14.16 | p3lim | Shh, it's a secret |
| 21:14.26 | Vladinator | your ip gives you away |
| 21:15.20 | Vladinator | anyone with mop beta and some time want to test something for me? |
| 21:15.38 | p3lim | Whatcha need |
| 21:32.54 | Torhal | apologizes to Adys for trolling him on #python |
| 21:32.56 | Torhal | :D |
| 21:33.05 | Adys | I like racecars |
| 21:33.09 | Torhal | lol |
| 21:34.10 | Arrowmaster | is a cdrom drive enough of a load to turn on a PSU using the wire trick |
| 21:34.13 | Vladinator | Anyone watches the daily show? It's great the last episodes. |
| 21:34.40 | Vladinator | Arrowmaster: I am curious to what you are trying to achieve. :) |
| 21:35.22 | Arrowmaster | test the PSU |
| 21:35.33 | Arrowmaster | i dont have any 4pin fans to use |
| 21:35.48 | Vladinator | Ah yes, you can use the drive cable for power if you like. |
| 21:36.00 | Vladinator | I've done so myself at least, on my old machine. |
| 21:36.12 | Arrowmaster | well ive got everything except a dvd burner unplugged |
| 21:36.38 | Mr_Rabies | we once had a computer checked in to the place i work at that turned on and off if you touched the case |
| 21:36.45 | Arrowmaster | i wired the green in the ATX cable to a black ground and i hear a click from the PSU but the PSU fan does not move |
| 21:36.46 | Mr_Rabies | that was...interesting |
| 21:37.59 | Arrowmaster | when the system died i heard a loud pop sound, i couldnt see any burnt traces or other components on the basic glance i could give the mobo |
| 21:38.06 | Arrowmaster | im really hoping its the PSU again |
| 21:47.01 | Vladinator | Are most on wowi/irc from US? :) |
| 21:47.19 | p3lim | Nah |
| 21:47.48 | Vladinator | Yesterday I was up extremely late, people were actively talking. :P |
| 21:48.38 | Tuller | well, that doesn't mean much for programmers |
| 21:49.10 | Vladinator | Explains why no one else watches the daily show too at least, hehe. :D |
| 21:49.29 | Tuller | i do, the next day :P |
| 21:49.40 | Arrowmaster | its mostly north america, europe, and those wackos in AUS/NZ |
| 21:51.19 | Vladinator | http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-july-24-2012/back-in-black---campaign-fibs back in black, funny :P |
| 21:52.06 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (~textual@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 21:52.06 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 21:53.06 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
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| 21:53.40 | Vladinator | Raise your hand if you still have wow because you can do stuff on it with lua. :P |
| 21:53.42 | Vladinator | raises hand. |
| 21:55.01 | Tuller | raises hand |
| 21:56.25 | Vladinator | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:56.46 | Vladinator | Hi Tuller :) |
| 21:57.10 | Vladinator | I use OmniCC and Bagnon ;) |
| 21:58.20 | Tuller | jaliborc handles those now :P |
| 21:58.36 | nevcairiel | thats why its all broken and things! |
| 21:58.42 | mckenziemc | D: |
| 21:59.12 | Tuller | haha |
| 22:04.55 | *** join/#wowuidev NiLon (nilon@unaffiliated/nilon) |
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| 22:24.41 | Jamash | am I your favorite? |
| 22:27.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaylin (~Kaylin@c-98-203-233-187.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
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| 22:50.13 | Vladinator | 's voice echoes trough the room... "Hello...?" he says. No response is heard in miles around him. |
| 22:53.21 | Vladinator | touches himself while no one is around. |
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| 23:04.19 | arton | peril baby yeah |
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| 23:26.15 | Adys | YES |
| 23:27.17 | Adys | finished xdg mime spec |
| 23:28.44 | Adys | I can now, in python, look at a file name or a file contents, match it against the entire XDG database (including local databases) and open the registered application matching it |
| 23:29.09 | Adys | Detected MIME type <MimeType: image/jpeg> |
| 23:29.09 | Adys | Found desktop file: '/usr/local/share/applications/easypaint.desktop' |
| 23:29.09 | Adys | Running: easypaint 'HPIM0366.JPG' |
| 23:29.17 | Adys | Pure python \o/ |
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