| 00:00.48 | Vladinator | (wiki DES said: "DES is now considered insecure because a brute force attack is possible (see EFF DES cracker). As of 2008, the best analytical attack is linear cryptanalysis, which requires 2^43 known plaintexts and has a time complexity of 2^39–43" :D) |
| 00:01.10 | mckenziemc | 2^-4 ? |
| 00:01.29 | Dagmar | "A f**King while" |
| 00:01.31 | durcyn | someone understands the order of operations |
| 00:01.44 | Gnarfoz | https://www.grc.com/haystack.htm (note the disclaimer, this is not a password-strength meter - but it clearily points out using a-zA-Z0-9 and some symbols and blowing up the length is the way to go) |
| 00:01.49 | Dagmar | Oh god no |
| 00:01.50 | Vladinator | was the message I wrote sent wrong? ugh. well it says 4.5 days average to crack it iwth a machine built in 1998 :P |
| 00:02.00 | Dagmar | If the answer involves GRC.com, the question is broken |
| 00:02.10 | Gnarfoz | hehe |
| 00:02.40 | Vladinator | hmm my basic password on grc.com site says ~100 years to crack |
| 00:02.44 | Gnarfoz | like I said, Gibson being Gibson, somebody else could put the same JS on another page and it'd still make sense |
| 00:02.54 | Vladinator | yet I was hacked on battle.net three years ago and I used that pass, no one else knew it :< |
| 00:03.08 | kd3 | keylogging is fun |
| 00:03.08 | Gnarfoz | no one... except the keyloggers! :P |
| 00:03.25 | Amarande | Yeah, as I remember, Gibson was the alarmist who insisted that if Windows XP had raw sockets, the digital world would be finished for good :P |
| 00:03.26 | Sintacks | i has a keylogger on my computer |
| 00:03.27 | Gnarfoz | or the internet café... or the public wifi somewhere |
| 00:03.30 | Gnarfoz | etc etc |
| 00:03.31 | Vladinator | not sure how they keylogged me, I usually use noscript and adblock and other stuff to manually allow scripts of any kind to run |
| 00:03.33 | Sintacks | and one on my brother's computer, because it's actually my computer |
| 00:03.37 | Stanzilla | hey Gnarfoz my best friend |
| 00:03.48 | Gnarfoz | sup |
| 00:03.50 | Vladinator | I am a huge nolife nerd, never logging on from anywhere else but my computer! :D |
| 00:04.01 | Dagmar | Amarande: He pulled that kind of insanity three different times |
| 00:04.02 | Sintacks | i don't go anywhere to login to anything from another computer |
| 00:04.33 | Amarande | Arrow: so Debian "dropped gnome", does that mean that wheezy is out? |
| 00:04.37 | Dagmar | "OMG if your webserver can only handle 1000 connections at once, someone can connect 1000 times and just sit on the sockets! TCP IZ INSEKURE!" |
| 00:04.45 | Vladinator | :p |
| 00:05.01 | Dagmar | ...to which most of the internet with a clue responded with "Yeah, so what?" |
| 00:05.06 | Gnarfoz | DoS for pre-schoolers, Dagmar? |
| 00:05.09 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 00:05.12 | Vladinator | my new password will be 0000000000000 because it says it would take up to 3.53 centuries to crack it |
| 00:05.17 | Dagmar | ...and then he got all worked up about *that* to the press |
| 00:05.38 | Gnarfoz | Vladinator: you did read the disclaimer I specifically pointed out when posting the link? :p |
| 00:05.48 | Amarande | Vlad: ]]]]]]]]]]]]] would be a better idea |
| 00:05.56 | Amarande | or however many ]'s as 0's |
| 00:05.58 | Vladinator | it's 2 in the night, what do you think? |
| 00:06.05 | durcyn | steve gibson is daniel bernstein with crayons |
| 00:06.12 | Dagmar | The guy really didn't understand the difference between a "vulnerability" and a "design limitation" |
| 00:06.15 | Amarande | remember, once they've finished with the dictionary, a full brute force is probably going to start with the lowest numbered characters and work its way up |
| 00:06.25 | Amarande | it'll probably hit all 0's before all ]'s heh |
| 00:06.46 | Dagmar | The fun thing is that computational power is still going up at a rate that there's little point in starting the crack on long passwords |
| 00:06.47 | Gnarfoz | durcyn: the gap is so much bigger :C |
| 00:07.03 | Vladinator | just do this, if you try login one account (no mater IP) 10 times in a row, block for an hour and alert by mail or sms. |
| 00:07.05 | Dagmar | If you started a 30 year run today, in 15 years the equipment available would be able to solve it in 10. |
| 00:07.13 | Dagmar | They'd beat you out by five whole years |
| 00:07.15 | Vladinator | would fix the brute force issue but not many do that, only google that I know of :P |
| 00:07.34 | neutronimity | 2.48 thousand centuries |
| 00:07.41 | Dagmar | Rainbow tables don't go past 12 characters yet that I'm aware of |
| 00:07.53 | Gnarfoz | everyone in their right mind slows you down when it's a "remote guess" scenario |
| 00:08.04 | Gnarfoz | if they don't the network itself becomes the bottleneck |
| 00:08.21 | Gnarfoz | remote guessing just isn't viable against sufficiently long passwords |
| 00:08.28 | Dagmar | Yeah just adding a second and a half delay turns a brute force attack into useless |
| 00:08.51 | Gnarfoz | but having 50 MiB of unsalted md5 hashes... zomg |
| 00:08.57 | xyphoid | i don't think rainbow tables are that relevant any more anyway, gpus have changed that space/cpu tradeoff so much |
| 00:09.01 | Vladinator | oh just a side question, when talking about this got me thinking of china and such, any way to effectively block a whole country by IP on your apache server? |
| 00:09.16 | Gnarfoz | xyphoid: I'd wager you're a bit off with that |
| 00:09.16 | Dagmar | Xyphoid: Oh they're quite relevant for cracking in bulk |
| 00:09.25 | Vladinator | I am tired of getting attemts at hacking, ddos, e.g. on my server from non-english speaking countries, jeez. even russians! |
| 00:09.30 | durcyn | Vladinator: you do realize the only reason china wasn't compromised is that they're on independent auth systems because blizzard doesn't run wow in china, right |
| 00:09.36 | Gnarfoz | Vladinator: geoip - as accurate as it is |
| 00:09.39 | Dagmar | Hell for cheap passwords _Google_ can function as a rainbow table |
| 00:09.49 | durcyn | claiming it was chinese hackers for that reason is fucking laughable |
| 00:09.56 | Gnarfoz | durcyn: or in korea, or in taiwan =D |
| 00:09.59 | Dagmar | Half the webshells I snatch I can put the ciphertext of the password into Google and get the password |
| 00:10.09 | Vladinator | I was not talking about the incident with blizzard at all, I said "side question" |
| 00:10.32 | Vladinator | Can't help thinking of china, russia, e.g. when thinking of spam, scam and attacks on the net :P |
| 00:10.54 | Gnarfoz | you weren't, but there's enough people around who'll point fingers that way soon enough (they've probably already started) |
| 00:11.17 | Vladinator | I was just thinking to ask you guys since it looked like you knew something, so I can protect my own server :P |
| 00:11.31 | Dagmar | It's not _that_ unreasonable to be looking at China |
| 00:11.35 | Gnarfoz | like I said, geoip is your best bet, if you want to go that route |
| 00:11.46 | Dagmar | I mean they *are* engaging in state-sponsored espionage |
| 00:12.00 | neutronimity | I need to start changing my passwords |
| 00:12.04 | Vladinator | reading my access log, all 404 results but they try so much, like 100 lines just to login to my phpmyadmin that I don't even have installed :P |
| 00:12.07 | neutronimity | I got a flush of wonderful ideas |
| 00:12.10 | Gnarfoz | it might not be, but it certainly would be unreasonable to do it the way durcyn said |
| 00:12.15 | Dagmar | It's been going on for at least seven years now |
| 00:12.25 | Gnarfoz | (i.e. "it was China because China wasn't affected") |
| 00:12.26 | Dagmar | Very likely as many as 12 years ago |
| 00:12.41 | Dagmar | Yeah that would be the wrong reason |
| 00:12.54 | Dagmar | I was hearing about China being up to stuff back in 2000 from spook friends |
| 00:12.55 | Adys | Gnarfoz: It was EA because SWTOR wasn't affected |
| 00:13.02 | Gnarfoz | Adys: or just out of spite |
| 00:13.08 | Gnarfoz | mabye EA paid chinese hackers! |
| 00:13.16 | Gnarfoz | ... |
| 00:13.18 | Dagmar | It was the StarForce people in a snit |
| 00:13.19 | Dagmar | :) |
| 00:13.19 | Adys | It was me because I don't give a shit. |
| 00:13.42 | Adys | at this point though |
| 00:13.48 | Gnarfoz | basically, anyones guess is worth shit, because they're just that, guesses :p |
| 00:14.06 | Vladinator | if I have an IP and I wish to report that person for illegal activities, is there anywhere I can go really? feels like people can ddos you and even if you got the IP and can find the ISP they won't do jack shit to even investigate if it's true or not... |
| 00:14.09 | Adys | it could just be blizzard so that people stop talking about how bad d3 is for a few days until they release 1.0.4 |
| 00:14.23 | Vladinator | adys :P |
| 00:14.26 | Gnarfoz | Vladinator: abuse mailbox of that ISP |
| 00:14.38 | Gnarfoz | they certainly care |
| 00:14.44 | Dagmar | Vladinator: If you can demonstrate a financial loss of $25,000 or more, the FBI will help |
| 00:14.44 | Amarande | On the other hand, regarding the "in 15 years a computer will be out that can do it in 10", we may be lucky that there's going to be a severe physical roadblock to continuing the development of computer hardware as we know it, and that roadblock will be hit within a few years |
| 00:14.46 | Vladinator | I've done whois and tried to send mail to the ISP but no reply, bet they just ignore me. :P |
| 00:14.59 | Adys | Vladinator: best bet is to find who this IP is trying to affect |
| 00:15.08 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: the FBI doesn't care much about norwegians getting DDoS'd |
| 00:15.09 | Gnarfoz | ;p |
| 00:15.11 | Dagmar | Amarande: People have been expecting we'll hit a wall in a couple more years for like the last 15 years |
| 00:15.12 | Adys | then that person will help |
| 00:15.21 | Amarande | Dagmar: this one seems a little more concrete, though (no pun intended) |
| 00:15.32 | Amarande | It's the one on how small they can keep making components on chips |
| 00:15.39 | Vladinator | Just checking my server logs, so many IP trying to access admin sites that don't exist, they don't do anything illegal per se, but it's not stricktly legal to snoop around to try break into places either now is it? :P |
| 00:15.45 | Dagmar | Yeah and one of those limits is stacking height |
| 00:15.57 | Dagmar | ...which Toshiba has a line on |
| 00:16.01 | Adys | Vladinator: its absolutely legal |
| 00:16.06 | Gnarfoz | Vladinator: probably perfectly legal in the EU |
| 00:16.07 | Amarande | We're at 22nm now (Ivy Bridge). Next step is 16nm which is believed to be no-problem besides maybe figuring out how to make the etch masks finer. |
| 00:16.12 | Dagmar | Some of that's responsible for the 2Tb SdCards |
| 00:16.14 | Gnarfoz | wait... what am I saying |
| 00:16.17 | Gnarfoz | durrr |
| 00:16.34 | Vladinator | Adys: I'll come to your backyard and spy in your window, let's see how legal that is. :P |
| 00:16.36 | Amarande | After that though, the next step is 11nm and apparently that's thought to not be doable with silicon because of quantum tunneling effects that will result in loss of control over electrons |
| 00:16.43 | Adys | Vladinator: it's legal |
| 00:16.52 | Adys | Vladinator: just because you don't like it doesn't make it illegal |
| 00:16.54 | Dagmar | Those clever folks keep figuring out how to make circuits smaller and smaller, and now they're closing in on stacking them deeper |
| 00:16.59 | mckenziemc | well, that'd be trespassing |
| 00:17.05 | Gnarfoz | mckenziemc: somewhere. |
| 00:17.16 | mckenziemc | what? |
| 00:17.18 | Adys | mckenziemc: to trespass you need to enter a property without being invited |
| 00:17.25 | Gnarfoz | Vladinator: first step: stop throwing "legal" and "illegal" around like the terms translate across country borders |
| 00:17.28 | Adys | mckenziemc: you can still look in someone's home if they have their windows open |
| 00:17.29 | Amarande | III-V semiconductors might be able to get down to 11nm, but then you can only go another step or two even then, due to the atomic scale limit even if you can somehow manage to etch on a single-atom scale |
| 00:17.30 | mckenziemc | he did say come to your backyard |
| 00:17.34 | Gnarfoz | to |
| 00:17.35 | Gnarfoz | not inside |
| 00:17.41 | Gnarfoz | (see?) |
| 00:17.47 | Vladinator | I'm with mckenziemc on this one. |
| 00:17.52 | Gnarfoz | whatever, try #legal |
| 00:17.52 | mckenziemc | yes but disagree |
| 00:18.06 | Amarande | After that, you've got to either stack vertically (as you're suggesting, Dagmar) or make the chip bigger horizontally |
| 00:18.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaylin (~Kaylin@c-98-203-233-187.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 00:18.11 | mckenziemc | to implies in |
| 00:18.13 | mckenziemc | in this case |
| 00:18.17 | Amarande | either way, power consumption and heat start to become issues there |
| 00:18.21 | Dagmar | bigger horizontally doesn't pay off as well |
| 00:18.32 | Dagmar | The larger it gets, the more space "lost" to interconnects |
| 00:18.36 | Adys | Gnarfoz: There is a *big* difference between coming in someone's backyard and coming okay nvm I won't do that joke. |
| 00:18.46 | Gnarfoz | you just did |
| 00:18.47 | mckenziemc | >.> |
| 00:18.52 | Amarande | in any case, chip progress as we know it is almost at an end |
| 00:18.55 | Stanzilla | coming in the backdoor? |
| 00:19.11 | mckenziemc | in any case, you've already been over this before and don't need to ramble about it again amarande |
| 00:19.12 | Amarande | so either the stacking idea has to prove viable, or failing that, quantum computing needs to prove viable ... |
| 00:19.25 | Gnarfoz | what's he talking about these days? |
| 00:19.38 | Adys | Gnarfoz: chips and rabbles |
| 00:19.41 | Dagmar | Stacking will probably involve fullerenes |
| 00:19.45 | Amarande | which means, Moore's Law is likely to not continue to hold, so things that are hard to crack now might not be all that much easier to crack even in a couple of decades. |
| 00:19.58 | Dagmar | We literally keep stumbling on new ways to make the stuff |
| 00:20.03 | Dagmar | The last one was hilarious |
| 00:20.14 | Vladinator | what is it called when you plan to do something that breaks the law and you can get charged with something even before you actually do said thing? |
| 00:20.16 | Dagmar | Three years from now your cell phone battery will be f**king awesome |
| 00:20.19 | kd3 | the next one I suspect will be even moreso |
| 00:20.25 | Adys | Vladinator: premeditation |
| 00:20.27 | Kaylin | intent? |
| 00:20.29 | Dagmar | Vladinator: Conspiracy to commit |
| 00:20.31 | Adys | Vladinator: oh nvm |
| 00:20.33 | Adys | conspiracy |
| 00:20.38 | Kaylin | yea that |
| 00:20.42 | Adys | misread what you said |
| 00:20.42 | kd3 | speaking of... c'mon amazon, get here with my new cellphone battery already |
| 00:20.43 | Gnarfoz | anyway Vladinator, the other easy and sane solution would be to turn off logging for locations that you know don't exist. no more 404s. one step further if it annoys you that much: don't run a public server on the internet. :P |
| 00:20.47 | Dagmar | ks3: LightScribe. LOL |
| 00:20.50 | Vladinator | combine that with computer trespass law, that's what I am getting at :P |
| 00:21.00 | Gnarfoz | which law is that? |
| 00:21.11 | Vladinator | the us one is at uslegal.com at least |
| 00:21.18 | Gnarfoz | sure, but you're not in the US |
| 00:21.22 | Gnarfoz | >_< |
| 00:21.35 | Dagmar | Vladinator: The relevant US section is 1080 5 c, IIRC |
| 00:21.46 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: it's in Full HD! |
| 00:21.55 | Vladinator | no but the key element for all computer trespass offenses is lack of authorization, you can' |
| 00:21.58 | Dagmar | Blah no wait Section 18, 1030 |
| 00:22.38 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: THe guy who came up with it was very tongue in cheek about it when asked if it would be a commercially viable method of producing fullerene sheets |
| 00:22.39 | Dagmar | hehe |
| 00:22.55 | Gnarfoz | I'm not sure what you're referring to |
| 00:22.57 | Dagmar | "Well, I made it with a component I bought at the store for $25" |
| 00:23.11 | kd3 | I'm still amused by the whole scotch tape-->graphene thing |
| 00:23.11 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: The last breakthrough in fullerenes that's going straight into batteries |
| 00:23.16 | Gnarfoz | aha |
| 00:23.31 | Gnarfoz | where did that come from amidst "omg 404s in my logz" |
| 00:23.31 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 00:23.36 | Vladinator | in any case, trying to login on another server when you clearly have no business there is not stricktly a legal thing either so should be something server owners can do than just contact costumer suport lol :p |
| 00:23.46 | Dagmar | Literally sprinkled carbon dust on a lightscribe dvd, popped it in the burner, scraped off the result to find... fullerene sheets |
| 00:23.48 | Gnarfoz | you said nothing about login attempts. |
| 00:24.01 | Gnarfoz | just accesses to URIs that don't exist |
| 00:24.03 | Vladinator | thats what the logs say, many of login attempts :P |
| 00:24.10 | Vladinator | yeah, their attempts redirect them to 404s :P |
| 00:24.15 | Dagmar | Vladinator: Having a respectable point of contact helps, and detailed logs also help |
| 00:24.58 | Gnarfoz | "redirect"? no. that's not a redirect, it's the straight answer! unless your setup is really stupid. |
| 00:25.17 | Dagmar | It's also best when you focus on what part of the provider's TOS their customer is violating, rather than hollering about what US law they broke |
| 00:25.25 | Vladinator | you are just nitpicking what I say word by word, while you certainly understand what I am trying to convey :P |
| 00:25.50 | Dagmar | ...but if they're coming from a specific location, just blacklist it. |
| 00:26.07 | Gnarfoz | of course I know what you're trying to convey is some bizarre idea that your server on the public internet should not be accessed in a way you didn't expect |
| 00:26.09 | Vladinator | thats what I've done so far, geoip IP range htaccess rule for certain areas. |
| 00:26.10 | Dagmar | Who cares if some backwater province in the Ukraine can't get to the site |
| 00:26.31 | Dagmar | I'm still populating my home firewall's blacklist from OKean (China, Japan, Korea, and Russian netblocks) |
| 00:27.03 | Vladinator | my point was more that if you have proof someone from some IP tries to do some shady stuff there is no one you can tell that to, not even ISP, haven't gotten a reply on my last reports in any case lol :P |
| 00:27.55 | Gnarfoz | there IS someone you can tell, it's the ISPs abuse department. maybe you were making an ass of yourself in your attempts to communicate with them, I don't know. |
| 00:28.26 | Dagmar | Vladinator: I suggest sort of casually mentioning 'I wonder if you've considered what might this person be doing to your equipment and your other customer's equipment." |
| 00:28.34 | Gnarfoz | they also have to have the same definition of "shady" as you. |
| 00:28.48 | Gnarfoz | unless you point out some particular violation of their terms of service to them |
| 00:29.55 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: as if people running blind scans for 500 old versions of phpmyadmin exploits would even *realize* there's equipment along the route that would be far more interesting ;p |
| 00:30.17 | Dagmar | Generally if you remind them that the user poses a potential risk to _them_, and walk them through the section of their ToS they can use to get rid of them, you can get somewhere |
| 00:30.54 | Vladinator | After the "making an ass of yourself" part I kind of dont wanna talk about this anymore. :P |
| 00:30.56 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: I'm not sure they'd even care. They're looking for low-hanging fruit anyway, and they'll find it |
| 00:31.28 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: I'm sure they're going to... see old wordpress versions on some news agency site just this week? yeah. fake news releases! :D |
| 00:31.34 | Vladinator | It's like as if I said "lul guys this IP is shady plz check it out k?" and was ignored .:P |
| 00:32.30 | Vladinator | Besides god knows how the ISP works in those countries, in Bulgaria the ISP provide torrented files for their customers, good luck getting help stopping a spammer from an IP, they probably do it themselves lol. |
| 00:32.46 | Gnarfoz | lastly, if the ISP really doesn't care (for whatever reason), law enforcement would be the last resort, but good luck with that for foreign IPs |
| 00:32.59 | Vladinator | Yeah |
| 00:33.55 | Vladinator | Lol checked the top search strings, the top once are things I can't even find myself on the server, haha. |
| 00:34.06 | Vladinator | crawlers are silly :) |
| 00:34.10 | Gnarfoz | yes they are |
| 00:35.01 | Gnarfoz | but they're a fact of being on the net, none the less |
| 00:35.27 | Vladinator | even when I got robots.txt that is supposed to stop crawlers, they still check in with me to see if I have changed my mind, in fact so often it's still like 10% of the traffic :P |
| 00:35.47 | Gnarfoz | I know I don't give a shit about phpmyadmin exploit scans, gallery2 exploit scans and goddamn favicon.ico missing 404's :P |
| 00:36.41 | Gnarfoz | Vladinator: then you apparently don't get much traffic at all? :P also, robots.txt is just a suggestion, there's nobody forcing anyone to abide by it. it's just netiquette |
| 00:37.15 | Vladinator | It's not supposed to be a public site, only for me and those I link to :) |
| 00:37.49 | Vladinator | Gnarfoz: you got adblock enabled? |
| 00:37.53 | Dagmar | So require Basic Auth for anything that doesn't come with a whitelisted referrer |
| 00:38.16 | Gnarfoz | or require it for everyone! and give out logins. |
| 00:38.35 | Vladinator | :D |
| 00:38.38 | Vladinator | I like that idea |
| 00:38.40 | Dagmar | When it's not a _public_ site, it gets a lot easier |
| 00:38.58 | TC-Work | http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/08/the-largest-ever-3d-map-of-the-universe/260909/ |
| 00:39.12 | TC-Work | aaaand, now i want to see that in person |
| 00:39.13 | Gnarfoz | non-public only by virtue of /you/ not sharing the URL is unrealistic anyway. others you share the URL with might share it without your consent. or get it lifted off their browsers by malware. or whatever. |
| 00:40.14 | Vladinator | That's the idea. :) |
| 00:40.40 | Kaylin | or click on a link on your site to another site |
| 00:40.58 | Adys | or get it guessed |
| 00:41.09 | Gnarfoz | etc |
| 00:41.11 | Gnarfoz | ^^ |
| 00:41.21 | Adys | oh, you're storing your admin site at /adm/? |
| 00:41.24 | Adys | well then! |
| 00:41.27 | Adys | NO NEED FOR PASSWORDS! |
| 00:43.36 | Gnarfoz | if you want actual non-public, you'd have to put it on a VPN so it's actually off the internet. but that's probably too uncomfortable to use. non-standard port would at least eliminate most crawlers. add http auth (and consider adding TLS, if you're using http auth) and you'll have replaced your 404s with 401s, neat huh?! :P |
| 00:45.15 | Vladinator | hey I found this cat video, just install my VPN client and let me give you a url to authenticate and create your account, you get your one time pin by sms and you will watch my video in no time! |
| 00:46.11 | Vladinator | I am soon going to bed, why are you up so late? |
| 00:46.12 | xyphoid | we had a case where a 'secret' url had leaked out onto google and there was drama (let's ignore how silly secret urls are) - after log trawling, the culprit turned out to be the client using Google Translate on one of the pages. |
| 00:46.25 | Vladinator | "we" you mean wowi? |
| 00:46.38 | xyphoid | i am not wowi |
| 00:46.57 | Vladinator | just was making sure :p |
| 00:53.07 | Stanzilla | what is this madness now |
| 00:53.27 | Vladinator | that's called silence :P |
| 00:53.40 | Stanzilla | I enjoy that |
| 00:53.54 | Vladinator | I am getting ready to sleep! |
| 01:00.55 | Vladinator | now, done with ted.com -check it out sometime. good night :P |
| 01:07.50 | Dagmar | They have a really cool app for it |
| 01:14.33 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 01:24.08 | Amarande | yay |
| 01:24.18 | Amarande | I change my password and immediately forget when logging on that I need to enter the new password and not the old one |
| 01:24.45 | durcyn | write a book about it, starting now |
| 01:27.44 | mckenziemc | ^ |
| 01:30.52 | Mr_Rabies | i did one worse, Amarande |
| 01:31.02 | Mr_Rabies | i forgot what i set my password to |
| 01:31.07 | Mr_Rabies | and had to re-reset it |
| 01:37.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh`` (~funk@5ada2b90.bb.sky.com) |
| 01:38.42 | kd3 | huh... a tools update? |
| 01:41.11 | Stanzilla | kd3: on beta? |
| 01:41.20 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: heh, that happened to me at work once ... I was required to change my password (we have one of those "have to change your password every X days" policies), and since I had not got enough sleep that night (this was back when I used to habitually raid past midnight and then try to work at 8AM or 9AM), the very next time I had to log onto the system I forgot and had to call the help |
| 01:41.20 | Amarande | desk. Literally on the day I JUST changed it. |
| 01:41.26 | Stanzilla | for me it complained that it wants to download a patch but failed to do so |
| 01:41.29 | Stanzilla | and I could not login |
| 01:41.33 | kd3 | or something, the launcher's not doing anything, but trying to log in has ... that |
| 01:41.46 | Stanzilla | yeah |
| 01:41.47 | kd3 | it's been reported in the sticky, so, eh, back to wowpedia work |
| 01:42.02 | mckenziemc | it's kind of hard to login when login isn't a verb, Stanzilla |
| 01:42.12 | Stanzilla | mckenziemc: :( LOG IN |
| 01:42.14 | Stanzilla | SORRY |
| 01:42.21 | kd3 | sure it is. the great thing about english is that you can verb any word you like |
| 01:43.50 | mckenziemc | icwutudidthar |
| 01:44.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@5ada2b90.bb.sky.com) |
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| 01:44.59 | Amarande | mckenziemc, did you go whimper under your pillow for a week when "Google" became a verb? |
| 01:45.14 | mckenziemc | no |
| 01:45.21 | mckenziemc | google isn't a voltron verb |
| 01:45.30 | kd3 | amusingly, you can do that in a few other languages as well, notably japanese. my current go-to example is Bushする, the act of throwing up on someone important (like a PM) during an important state function |
| 01:46.04 | mckenziemc | o.o |
| 01:46.15 | Amarande | Heh, I see at least some people are more honest about their raid roles in trade chat nowadays, too :) |
| 01:46.22 | Amarande | I literally just saw a rogue asking to get carried through DS |
| 01:46.50 | Amarande | as in, didn't even try to sneak in as a real "DPS", he out and said he was looking to get carried :) |
| 01:49.46 | kd3 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush_vomiting_incident |
| 02:00.18 | *** join/#wowuidev nicoli_s (~nicoli_s@67.58.77.206) |
| 02:01.10 | Arrowmaster | kd3: im watching wierd anime on hulu since my desktop broke, its fucking haliarious i dont know why i didnt watch some of these before |
| 02:01.28 | kd3 | heh |
| 02:01.37 | Arrowmaster | watching Kore wa Zombie Desuka? right now |
| 02:01.40 | kd3 | wishes amazon prime had more of a selection... |
| 02:01.53 | kd3 | oh, that was freaking hilarious, if a bit mood-whiplashy |
| 02:02.33 | Arrowmaster | i watched air gear and chrome shelled regios a few days ago |
| 02:05.02 | kd3 | eh, regios was ok. still haven't watched air gear |
| 02:05.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal|work (~torhal_wo@67.58.77.206) |
| 02:07.40 | Arrowmaster | neither one of them ended with a proper conclusion |
| 02:20.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal|work (~torhal_wo@76.164.170.2) |
| 02:33.17 | pompy | http://gamerant.com/modern-warfare-3-player-addiction/ wow.. horrible parenting/guardians thats for sure, eh? ... they take it away from him after the fact ... lol. |
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| 03:13.49 | pompy | http://store.steampowered.com/news/8584/ |
| 03:15.15 | TC-Work | "I accepted his friend request between my alabaster thighs." from a fake erotic fiction book |
| 03:18.34 | *** join/#wowuidev jeffy162 (~chatzilla@pool-72-92-65-230.phlapa.east.verizon.net) |
| 03:20.51 | pompy | http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=397160713667243&set=a.133197436730240.23875.110938085622842&type=1 lol awesome 8-bit logo |
| 03:21.02 | Arrowmaster | Cairenn: http://i.imgur.com/s7tOH.jpg |
| 03:21.10 | Cairenn | lol |
| 03:21.12 | Cairenn | cute |
| 03:21.26 | Arrowmaster | best costume ever |
| 03:21.29 | Cairenn | I still feel bad for the poor doggy, but cute |
| 03:21.44 | Cairenn | The things we put our pets through ;) |
| 03:22.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-76-28-131-143.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 03:24.20 | TC-Work | why does that remind me of dick in a box? |
| 03:25.09 | Arrowmaster | because you are a sick sick man |
| 03:25.15 | Arrowmaster | welcome to the internet |
| 03:30.19 | ccox | is there any convenient place to check the PTR status other than trying to log in all the time? |
| 03:31.14 | Arrowmaster | http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/9/3230866/mobile-payments-committee-mobile-carriers-google-isis |
| 03:31.21 | Arrowmaster | i really hope google wins this one |
| 03:31.58 | Arrowmaster | and the carriers stop being fucking dicks about blocking google wallet |
| 03:40.18 | Shirik | uh... |
| 03:40.23 | Shirik | no words can prepare you for this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImtjPPBSr8I |
| 03:41.11 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 03:45.51 | Kaylin | lmao @ the I'm sorry I have bad news for you comment. |
| 03:46.13 | Kaylin | also that's awesome and I like the sound |
| 03:47.19 | Corrodias | who's blocking what? what's "google wallet"? |
| 03:48.10 | Dagmar | Plaid-free skirling |
| 03:48.15 | Adys_ | Shirik: I love the 2-3 seconds pause 5 seconds into the video |
| 03:48.19 | Adys_ | it gives you time to think |
| 03:48.33 | Adys_ | "Do you *really* want to watch this? It's an old guy with goat bagpipes." |
| 03:49.04 | Kaylin | yes you do really want to watch it |
| 03:49.21 | Adys | well obviously IM watching. |
| 03:51.24 | pompy | http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/297559_10151992320385375_20688446_n.jpg |
| 03:51.45 | Kaylin | >_> |
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| 04:11.04 | Adys | autofs i love you |
| 04:15.52 | Adys | how did I go so long without it |
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| 04:47.56 | Arrowmaster | scary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDQatnFUA3E |
| 04:53.03 | Corrodias | whoa shit. |
| 04:55.28 | *** join/#wowuidev nailertn (~nailertn@BC241DC3.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 05:02.34 | Fisker | it finally happened |
| 05:04.51 | Thunder_Child | you killed a man? |
| 05:05.17 | mckenziemc | he's not quite dead |
| 05:05.18 | *** join/#wowuidev wereHamster (~tomc@unaffiliated/werehamster) |
| 05:05.29 | Kaylin | just mostly dead? |
| 05:06.05 | Fisker | nope Thunder_Child |
| 05:06.09 | Fisker | Blizzard got hacked |
| 05:06.22 | Kaylin | old Fisker. |
| 05:06.25 | Kaylin | <3 |
| 05:08.02 | bluworkcow | [17:02] <Fisker> it finally happened |
| 05:08.08 | bluworkcow | *bangs gong* |
| 05:08.13 | bluworkcow | *spreads flowers around* |
| 05:08.16 | bluworkcow | everyone rejoice |
| 05:08.20 | bluworkcow | FOR FISKER GOT LAID |
| 05:08.28 | Kaylin | ZA door seems unresponsive @ spacecow |
| 05:08.32 | Fisker | i know Kaylin |
| 05:08.43 | Fisker | but that is old too |
| 05:09.03 | bluworkcow | wot you want me to do about it kaylin? |
| 05:09.15 | Kaylin | idk spam click it a lot until somebody leaves group |
| 05:23.25 | mckenziemc | removes bluworkcow from the group. |
| 05:23.36 | mckenziemc | o.o |
| 05:23.42 | mckenziemc | i guess we can invite you back blu |
| 05:41.47 | Cairenn | https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=414493311950080&set=a.268489309883815.67691.268330443233035&type=1 |
| 05:43.12 | bluworkcow | LOL i is at work sillies |
| 05:48.58 | bluworkcow | http://www.quora.com/Zynga-Stock-Price-Collapse-Summer-2012/How-do-Zynga-employees-feel-about-the-companys-summer-2012-stock-price-drop |
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| 06:33.24 | zenzio | drunk Norwegian on the way home from Rome falls asleep on the baggage transport band... thing (whose actual name I clearly do not know), is not noticed until he passes the x-ray: http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/228/228908/22890819/jpg/active/978x.jpg |
| 06:33.39 | zenzio | airport authority says "there's usually one such event every year" |
| 06:43.52 | Corrodias | hm. |
| 06:44.05 | Corrodias | i wonder how big a dose taht is |
| 06:44.06 | Corrodias | that |
| 06:49.49 | karl_w_w | Corrodias: probably about 75kg |
| 06:51.04 | zenzio | he was sent to the hospital for a check-up, but was deemed fine. I do also wonder though |
| 06:51.28 | Cairenn | lol |
| 06:51.32 | Dagmar | HUmans aren't supposed to go through those machines |
| 06:51.51 | Corrodias | as far as i know, there wouldn't be any immediate sign of damage |
| 06:52.23 | Dagmar | Yeah but the doctors could look up whether or not this guy has already had five x-rays this year |
| 06:52.27 | Dagmar | Cuz now he's had about fifteen |
| 06:52.53 | Corrodias | probably fine, though. if it happens once a year, surely they've got it set not to give insane doses with a single run-through. |
| 06:53.15 | Dagmar | No that's still a fine level, so long as he wasn't getting bi-weekly x-rays for somethign else |
| 06:53.48 | Dagmar | Otherwise it'd be no more xrays for him for awhile |
| 06:55.04 | karl_w_w | x-rays Dagmar and sees alien innards |
| 06:56.07 | cbreak-work | http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/08/hackers-collect-significant-account-details-from-blizzard-servers/ |
| 06:57.10 | Corrodias | beautiful |
| 06:58.27 | Corrodias | so supposedly, they take security seriously and actually encrypted the damn passwords effectively |
| 06:58.30 | Corrodias | that's nice to hear |
| 06:58.58 | Corrodias | well, you know what i mean. "protected". |
| 06:59.55 | karl_w_w | bollocks |
| 07:01.00 | karl_w_w | that was like my primary secret question + answer |
| 07:01.18 | bluworkcow | what is ? |
| 07:01.30 | karl_w_w | how much do you love bluworkcow |
| 07:03.55 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 07:10.03 | bluworkcow | oh okay |
| 07:12.23 | cbreak-work | the best thing to do with those secret questions is: |
| 07:12.39 | cbreak-work | ignore the question, enter a long (20+) alphanumeric random string |
| 07:12.45 | cbreak-work | and print it out, store it in a safe or so |
| 07:14.58 | karl_w_w | says you |
| 07:15.32 | cbreak-work | yes |
| 07:16.19 | cbreak-work | it protects against anyone being able to find out the secret answer via third party information |
| 07:16.34 | cbreak-work | it does NOT protect against stupidity like in the recent Apple case |
| 07:17.57 | bluworkcow | put in 2 |
| 07:31.06 | *** join/#wowuidev neutronimity (~neutronim@f051013125.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 07:34.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~md@mail1.retailplanit.com) |
| 07:46.17 | mitch0 | cbreak-work: much good that does to you if the bad guys get your random 20+ char answer anyway... |
| 07:46.49 | mitch0 | (as it apparently happend with bnet...) |
| 07:47.14 | cbreak-work | mitch0: as I said: it only protects against third party attacks |
| 07:47.24 | cbreak-work | security questions are a vulnerability |
| 07:47.28 | cbreak-work | it needs to be closed |
| 07:47.49 | cbreak-work | in the best case, they are useless |
| 07:49.17 | zenzio | when someone broke into my Xbox Live account and I had to call support, I was rather stressed out. When they asked for the answer to the security question I couldn't think of it off the top of my head (had two possible answers), so when I got it wrong I was asked for the last four digits of the card associated with the account |
| 07:49.20 | zenzio | that was sufficient |
| 07:49.57 | mitch0 | cbreak-work: ok, my advice for security answer: "DEAR SUPPORT! DO NOT EVER ACCEPT THIS SECURITY ANSWER! IT'S NOT ME ON THE PHONE!" |
| 07:50.01 | Corrodias | the last four digits? as in, the ones that are publicly printed on every statement ever? |
| 07:50.17 | cbreak-work | mitch0: they'd accept it anyway... |
| 07:50.19 | zenzio | Corrodias: pretty much. At least they didn't ask for the first four :-) |
| 07:50.26 | cbreak-work | they even accepted completely wrong answers! |
| 07:50.40 | Corrodias | <Loki> My friend on the Battle.net security breach: "I would change my password, but seeing as how case sensitive passwords don't work in Blizzard games I see no point." |
| 07:51.00 | zenzio | wait, what? They're case insensitive? |
| 07:51.05 | cbreak-work | yeah. |
| 07:51.16 | cbreak-work | I filed a ticket on that half a decade ago |
| 07:51.20 | cbreak-work | didn't get fixed yet |
| 07:51.21 | zenzio | wow |
| 07:51.27 | cbreak-work | incompetent morons at blizz... |
| 07:51.58 | mitch0 | project euler didn't accept my password change 'cos I put a @ in it... said it contains invalid characters... |
| 07:52.00 | zenzio | I heard Facebook accepts reverse case and capital first letter, apparently to avoid people having to retype it on phones |
| 07:52.15 | mitch0 | so security is incopetent on a lot of sites... |
| 07:52.44 | zenzio | mitch0: when I tried SWTOR, I had two create a bunch of security questions, of fixed type. One was "what was the name of your first school". I answered it, and it told me it contained invalid characters, in this case "å". UTFail |
| 07:52.54 | zenzio | jesus |
| 07:52.55 | zenzio | had to |
| 07:53.13 | zenzio | making such typos at 10 in the morning does not bode well for my code |
| 07:53.18 | Humbedooh | zenzio, uhm...yeah, why make a hash of that answer when you can just store it in plaintext :> |
| 07:54.05 | zenzio | yeah, they shouldn't really care much what you enter so long as you can reproduce it yourself when you have to enter it |
| 07:57.52 | cbreak-work | project euler and face book probably don't matter much |
| 07:57.59 | cbreak-work | not much lost if those get compromized |
| 07:58.12 | cbreak-work | but blizzard should not fail that hard |
| 07:58.39 | cbreak-work | a compromised battle.net account can cause damages in the hundreds of euros. |
| 07:59.14 | zenzio | I can see Facebook's reasoning in this case actually |
| 07:59.37 | zenzio | but yeah, not at all comparable |
| 08:00.17 | cbreak-work | I don't see what facebook has to do with phones, or what phones have to do with first letter uppercase or reverse case. |
| 08:00.37 | zenzio | smartphones have a tendency to love automatic capital first letters |
| 08:00.49 | zenzio | and people suck at caps lock, but that's more their own fault |
| 08:01.10 | cbreak-work | sounds like phones are broken then. |
| 08:01.17 | cbreak-work | they should not mess around with passwords. |
| 08:01.35 | zenzio | I agree phones are broken =) |
| 08:04.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@p5B04C3D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:04.27 | bluworkcow | TOAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 08:04.32 | bluworkcow | i has it! |
| 08:06.45 | Humbedooh | \o/ |
| 08:08.50 | *** join/#wowuidev klip (klip@gollum.klapka.cz) |
| 08:10.36 | bluworkcow | mmmmm toast and yogurt |
| 08:10.46 | bluworkcow | TOAST IN YOHGUIRT |
| 08:12.08 | bluworkcow | YOGHURT IN TOAST |
| 08:12.15 | bluworkcow | fisker in toast |
| 08:12.23 | bluworkcow | toast on fisker *takes photo* |
| 08:12.38 | Humbedooh | bluworkcow, coffee much? |
| 08:12.49 | bluworkcow | eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee *bounces around* |
| 08:13.10 | bluworkcow | toast on Humbedooh |
| 08:15.28 | *** join/#wowuidev harl|away (harl@dslb-088-077-127-235.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:15.28 | Humbedooh | did you know, I have three cows?! |
| 08:15.48 | *** join/#wowuidev rtharper (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 08:19.03 | bluworkcow | O_O |
| 08:19.19 | bluworkcow | *toast on Humbedooh's cow #1* |
| 08:19.24 | bluworkcow | *toast on Humbedooh's cow #2* |
| 08:19.28 | bluworkcow | *toast on Humbedooh's cow #3* |
| 08:19.39 | bluworkcow | *takes photo* |
| 08:19.45 | Humbedooh | Ferdinand did not appreciate the toast, but the others did |
| 08:20.10 | bluworkcow | yay! |
| 08:21.10 | zenzio | http://thesockcovers.tumblr.com/ |
| 08:22.33 | *** join/#wowuidev harl8221 (harl@dslb-092-072-015-108.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:29.09 | zenzio | "// Save the shit..." |
| 08:29.20 | zenzio | someone must've been in a bad mood when they wrote that bit of code |
| 08:31.55 | arton | is a flawed human. |
| 08:32.12 | arton | Skynet needs to hurry the ef up. |
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| 08:57.36 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluipodcow] by ChanServ |
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| 09:07.00 | AcidWeb | http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/reflex-battleground-historian#c150 and http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/reflex-battleground-historian#c152 |
| 09:07.09 | AcidWeb | Anybody heard anything about that? |
| 09:08.16 | zenzio | TSW looking like it will sell less in the first 12 months than Age of Conan did in its first 12 months. Wonder if this is because people are wary after AoC, not impressed/interested with the premise/setting, put off by it being on the subscription model, or whatever |
| 09:08.33 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 09:08.41 | bluworkcow | *glares at bluipodcow* |
| 09:09.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Monolit (~Strigoy@89.112.4.92.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 09:10.51 | haste | zenzio: might be because there hasn't been much word of mouth around TSW |
| 09:11.16 | zenzio | possibly |
| 09:11.25 | haste | beta does wonder for sales |
| 09:12.15 | zenzio | didn't they have a few open beta events, or were those closed? |
| 09:13.15 | haste | don't think they had any |
| 09:14.18 | zenzio | must've been closed then. Hard some people speak of how they needed to fix some bad bugs before launch, questioning whether they would |
| 09:14.21 | zenzio | *Heard |
| 09:14.32 | zenzio | my typing is horrible today :-| |
| 09:15.19 | haste | mine as well |
| 09:15.21 | haste | I blame NSB. |
| 09:15.33 | Kalroth | aww |
| 09:15.33 | bluipodcow | *puts toast on zenzio* |
| 09:15.36 | zenzio | sadly I would not be surprised if that were true |
| 09:15.38 | zenzio | personally I feel TSW has an interesting setting, but the mechanics didn't really work for me |
| 09:15.41 | bluworkcow | copy cat! |
| 09:16.19 | harl | wuff |
| 09:16.25 | zenzio | ohai |
| 09:16.59 | Kalroth | I think it's because there has been more hype about other MMOs, than less hype from a Funcom game |
| 09:17.49 | Kalroth | like GW2 being without a subscription, that probably hurts TSW a lot |
| 09:18.09 | haste | I didn't really fall for GW2 |
| 09:18.12 | zenzio | I think that's definitely one part of it |
| 09:18.23 | zenzio | has GW2 launched yet? |
| 09:18.25 | haste | but it was fairly horrible to play under Linux when you couldn't move the camera :P |
| 09:18.31 | haste | no idea, only tried beta |
| 09:18.32 | Kalroth | going to on the 28th i think |
| 09:18.50 | haste | best date there is then! |
| 09:19.04 | zenzio | I'd say I've been disappointed by TSW and SWTOR, but both of them could've been avoided if I had done any actual research on them beforehand |
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| 11:21.58 | zenzio | coding on a Friday afternoon is so tedious... logic goes much slower in my mind then |
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| 11:23.13 | Maldivia | then do illogical code |
| 11:23.39 | zenzio | I'm sure come Monday it will look like illogical code |
| 11:28.12 | Maldivia | so if you have to redo everything on Monday, take Friday off, then you don't have to do the same code twice :P |
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| 11:35.42 | zenzio | Maldivia: I try to spend less time on Fridays coding and more time planning how to code ;) |
| 11:36.58 | Maldivia | so you do the planning for next week, while thinking of the weekend :P |
| 11:39.05 | zenzio | exactly! |
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| 12:11.09 | AcidWeb | http://news.discovery.com/tech/brain-dish-flies-plane-041022.html |
| 12:11.10 | AcidWeb | O.o |
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| 13:08.39 | nevcairiel | sweet, can finally turn on tainglog in beta without the client crashing immediately =p |
| 13:14.54 | bluspacecow | mmmmmm tainglog. |
| 13:14.58 | bluspacecow | i know you meant taintlog |
| 13:15.05 | bluspacecow | but tainglog sounds yummier |
| 13:15.11 | Maldivia | who is taing, and why are you logging him? |
| 13:15.31 | nevcairiel | its tain, and i'm glogging him |
| 13:15.38 | Maldivia | ahh |
| 13:15.41 | bluspacecow | oh noes |
| 13:15.51 | Maldivia | you glogster |
| 13:17.05 | nevcairiel | i guess now i need to level a bit until the taint happens again that i'm looking for |
| 13:17.32 | nevcairiel | rather quest a bit, leveling is done |
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| 13:55.58 | Fisker | man |
| 13:56.29 | Thunder_Child | woman |
| 13:56.31 | Fisker | i wonder what these guys are smoking when making up stuff to think they can restrict pirates |
| 13:56.47 | Fisker | on google music you can only download your purchased music twice |
| 13:56.52 | Fisker | unless you download it through the music manager |
| 13:56.56 | Fisker | then you can download it unlimited timed |
| 13:56.58 | Fisker | times* |
| 13:57.01 | Fisker | this is great logic |
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| 14:19.51 | Adys | http://thedoghousediaries.com/comics/uncategorized/2012-08-10-ff3db9b.png |
| 14:19.58 | Adys | that's every aussie in the channel right? |
| 14:20.08 | Ackis | .msg fisker key |
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| 14:38.00 | Adys | http://www.gog.com/en/promo/gsc_team_17_weekend_promo |
| 14:38.04 | Adys | worms united is half price |
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| 14:41.52 | Arrowmaster | oh r/netsec is saying SRP isnt secure at all in a case like blizz's compromise so all passwords are fucked |
| 14:42.31 | Adys | hows it "not secure"? |
| 14:42.33 | mikma | a whatwhat in the where |
| 14:42.41 | bluspacecow | BOOBIES! |
| 14:42.49 | Dagmar | I see your problem. It's "^r/.*" |
| 14:42.52 | Kaylin | agrees with bluspacecow |
| 14:44.04 | Arrowmaster | http://www.opine.me/blizzards-battle-net-hack/ |
| 14:46.32 | Adys | I have this guy somewhere in my neighbourhood |
| 14:46.49 | Adys | every single time I turn on my wifi, he gets on it |
| 14:46.55 | cbreak-work | Arrowmaster: that was kind of expected |
| 14:47.06 | Adys | i could leave it off for a week, turn it back on and he's be back on it |
| 14:47.10 | cbreak-work | Adys: change the password. |
| 14:47.18 | Adys | cbreak-work: no, i leave the wifi open in those cases |
| 14:47.20 | Adys | but |
| 14:47.21 | Adys | who the fuck does that? |
| 14:47.28 | Adys | the guy clearly lives here |
| 14:47.31 | cbreak-work | it's probably automatic |
| 14:47.37 | cbreak-work | so he peered with the ssid once |
| 14:47.48 | cbreak-work | and now the device thinks it's supposed to connect to it |
| 14:48.04 | Adys | but he actually uses the line |
| 14:48.09 | Adys | thats how i notice it |
| 14:48.17 | cbreak-work | yeah, he uses wireless |
| 14:48.18 | Arrowmaster | upsidedownternet his ass |
| 14:48.23 | cbreak-work | but maybe he thinks he uses his own |
| 14:48.38 | cbreak-work | or he's just war-dri...sitting |
| 14:48.56 | Adys | if he'd use his own in between the time i leave the wifi off, wouldnt the computer connect to the last network? |
| 14:49.00 | Kaylin | yea my parents have connected to neighbor's networks automatically before by accident and call me asking why they can't use their printer I set up for them on their network |
| 14:49.10 | Kaylin | they have no idea how to use computers |
| 14:49.24 | cbreak-work | Adys: maybe it connects to the best ssid, or the one with the strongest signal, or just the first in the list |
| 14:49.32 | Adys | hmm yeah true |
| 14:49.47 | Adys | and fuck knows *my* ssid is the best so that makes sense |
| 14:49.50 | Dagmar | Best s/n ratio first |
| 14:50.05 | cbreak-work | can you just change the ssid and check if it follows? |
| 14:50.16 | Dagmar | Actually, _saved/remembered_ networks first, then best s/n ratio within that |
| 14:50.19 | Adys | nah its a very shit router |
| 14:50.20 | Kaylin | when it says bnet passwords don't use symbols, they use some symbols just not, all of them, don't they? |
| 14:50.46 | Dagmar | They also should all prefer an encrypted link over an unencrypted link |
| 14:50.50 | cbreak-work | Kaylin: they use lower case letters and numbers |
| 14:50.51 | Kaylin | I swear I've used things besides alphanumeric before |
| 14:50.56 | Adys | Arrowmaster: To Mike Morhaime and the Blizzard security team, I would request immediate retraction or clarification on your statement about the difficulty of extracting passwords from the stolen database. The message to your users should be clear: you’re passwords have almost certainly been cracked, and you should take immediate action. |
| 14:51.00 | Adys | jesus fucking eatcocks |
| 14:51.03 | Kaylin | right I know that |
| 14:51.22 | Dagmar | Adys: Nore reddit-baggery? |
| 14:51.31 | Adys | Dagmar: that blogpost Arrowmaster linked |
| 14:51.41 | Adys | these fuckheads are why companies refuse to publish details on their security systems |
| 14:51.49 | Adys | "OH UHHH I CAN DO BETTER U GUYS SUCKS" |
| 14:52.27 | Dagmar | Someone should slap this fucker in his face |
| 14:52.54 | Arrowmaster | until we get better details about the hash used the safe assumption is that it doesnt take long to bruteforce/dictionary attack them |
| 14:53.47 | cbreak-work | they said it's salted |
| 14:53.59 | cbreak-work | so it'll at least take longer than letting a rainbow table run over everything |
| 14:54.24 | Arrowmaster | right its like only a 1 pass hashing |
| 14:54.30 | Arrowmaster | likely |
| 14:54.49 | cbreak-work | sad :/ |
| 14:54.55 | Arrowmaster | so the attackers will be hard at work running them all throught a dictionary attack first |
| 14:55.01 | pompy | Arrowmaster: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Assassin-s-Creed-3-Xbox-360-Xbox-360/20452320 :O |
| 14:55.13 | Adys | "We'd like to inform our Battle.net players that, as an errata to the statement we made yesterday, your passwords have almost certainly been cracked. We received this critical piece of information from a very smart blogger who only knows we use SRP and makes a dicklot of assumptions about our system." --Mike Morhaime |
| 14:55.15 | Dagmar | ...which will do them no good at all against any account with a fucking authenticator on it |
| 14:55.31 | Dagmar | ...and at this point, I have real trouble feeling sorry for anyone who hasn't gotten a damn authenticator |
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| 14:55.40 | Arrowmaster | pompy: the fuck |
| 14:55.45 | pompy | iknow |
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| 14:55.54 | cbreak-work | Dagmar: authenticators give 6 digit numbers |
| 14:56.06 | Adys | 8 |
| 14:56.08 | cbreak-work | so they have a one in a million chance to guess the number |
| 14:56.17 | Dagmar | If you've been playing a game for years and care that damn much about your shiny pixels and still can't afford to spend ten bucks to solve the problem, you're probably speeding without a seatbelt and eating things off the floor as well |
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| 14:56.25 | Adys | cbreak-work: physical auths give 6, regular auths give 8 |
| 14:56.28 | Dagmar | cbreak-work: Which is just about silly |
| 14:56.28 | cbreak-work | Adys: real authenticator, not the phone thing |
| 14:56.33 | cbreak-work | the phone thing got stolen too |
| 14:56.48 | Arrowmaster | ive only got a phone one on my account |
| 14:56.53 | Dagmar | The "phone things" were in process of changing yesterday afaik |
| 14:57.05 | Adys | yea |
| 14:57.11 | Adys | i wonder how they're changing it |
| 14:57.17 | Dagmar | The hardware token, which is quite cheap, is still secure |
| 14:57.19 | Adys | are they just giving everyone new authenticators? |
| 14:57.23 | Dagmar | Adys: Ship out another secret token |
| 14:57.31 | foxlit | Dagmar: unambitious. |
| 14:57.32 | Adys | makes sense then |
| 14:57.53 | nevcairiel | guess that screws every 3rd party authenticator until they update =p |
| 14:57.58 | foxlit | They could change the mechanism so they have nothing of value to steal. |
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| 14:58.18 | Adys | nevcairiel: i would think there would be communication between the authenticator and the servers |
| 14:58.28 | nevcairiel | today? there isnt |
| 14:58.40 | Adys | have they changed them? |
| 14:58.42 | Adys | lemme try logging in |
| 14:58.47 | Dagmar | I really doubt this is going to give third-party authenticators serious problem |
| 14:58.56 | Adys | i doubt it too |
| 14:59.08 | nevcairiel | i can use the authenticator just fine without a data connection |
| 14:59.14 | nevcairiel | it doesnt talk to anyone |
| 14:59.14 | Dagmar | this is _slightly_ simplifying things, but the authenticators aren't fucking magical |
| 14:59.43 | Dagmar | You take a big random number, and you stick it in a tiny device which _has a realtime clock_, |
| 14:59.47 | Adys | nevcairiel: it would need to to change its token |
| 14:59.53 | Dagmar | That big random number being _the key_. |
| 14:59.54 | cbreak-work | the normal ones just have a timer, a shared secret and a hashing function |
| 15:00.01 | Adys | nevcairiel: there would *have* to be a back and forth something like |
| 15:00.27 | Adys | nevcairiel: "what is your id?" "US-1234-5678" "Ok, here is your new info: ... ..." |
| 15:00.41 | Dagmar | You take the current epoch time, round to the nearest clock minute, xor or multiply or whatever you like with the random secret, then hash into a space that can be turned into a six- or eight-digit number. done |
| 15:00.42 | nevcairiel | Adys: after the update they talk about, maybe |
| 15:01.07 | pompy | Arrowmaster: techbargains featured that price and said it may be a price error lol, ugh i hope all the preorders people put in, walmart doesnt cancel them lol. |
| 15:01.22 | Adys | Dagmar / nevcairiel : https://github.com/Adys/python-bna/blob/master/bna.py the process in python |
| 15:01.44 | Adys | entry points at getToken and requestNewSerial |
| 15:01.50 | Dagmar | hardware tokens, you can't change the magic number. It goes into a db linked to the serial on the baack of the device, and blizz's rsa server looks it up from there |
| 15:02.04 | Dagmar | Software tokens can change the number over SSL |
| 15:02.29 | cbreak-work | I don't think it's an rsa server |
| 15:02.45 | cbreak-work | after last year's RSA hack, blizz said their tokens were from some other company |
| 15:02.48 | cbreak-work | vasco or so? |
| 15:02.50 | Dagmar | I really don't care who their third-party vendor might be nor what branding they use |
| 15:02.53 | Dagmar | It's the same function. |
| 15:02.57 | nevcairiel | yeah they said its some other company, forgot the name |
| 15:02.58 | Dagmar | Vesco licenced it all from RSA |
| 15:03.07 | cbreak-work | different database |
| 15:03.15 | Kaylin | yes the tokens are vasco digipass 6, I have one right here |
| 15:03.28 | Kaylin | digipass Go 6* |
| 15:03.30 | Dagmar | I have acutally set those things up before (not Vesco's branded version) |
| 15:03.32 | Kaylin | idk if that makes a difference |
| 15:03.45 | Dagmar | We've got RSA tokens rolling out here, currently |
| 15:03.54 | Adys | did anyone ever make a software implementation of vasco authenticators? |
| 15:04.05 | Kaylin | iirc there was one on google code I saw |
| 15:04.08 | cbreak-work | not much use without the shared secret |
| 15:04.16 | Dagmar | Adys: You could make one that works just like it |
| 15:04.23 | Dagmar | You can't get the token out of the hardware device tho |
| 15:04.24 | nevcairiel | Kaylin: those just implement the mobile authenticator |
| 15:04.29 | Kaylin | ah okay |
| 15:04.30 | Dagmar | ...so you're not cloning a hardware token. |
| 15:05.18 | Adys | Dagmar: im mostly wondering how different if at all the routines are on the hardware authenticators |
| 15:05.27 | Dagmar | Not very |
| 15:05.41 | Dagmar | There's no need for the mechanism to be wildly different |
| 15:05.49 | Dagmar | The process is still the same |
| 15:06.02 | cbreak-work | there are three basic schemes |
| 15:06.12 | Kaylin | god today's xkcd is depressing |
| 15:06.27 | cbreak-work | one's current time + secret --hashing--> code |
| 15:06.31 | Dagmar | A large shared secret, modified by a number incremented over time, then you throw out a large amount of it using a hash function so that you've got a small, portable number someone can type |
| 15:06.44 | cbreak-work | then there's current counter + secret --hashing--> code |
| 15:06.56 | cbreak-work | and then there's nonce + secret --hashing--> code |
| 15:07.13 | Dagmar | ...and they all amount to relatively the same thing |
| 15:07.14 | cbreak-work | the second one is used in low-power dongles |
| 15:07.25 | cbreak-work | they create a code that only updates when you request a new one |
| 15:07.39 | cbreak-work | the third is used when you get a challenge-response type authentication |
| 15:07.43 | Adys | cbreak-work: theres no way blizzard could be using a counter |
| 15:07.48 | cbreak-work | often used for banking, with smart cards |
| 15:07.52 | cbreak-work | Adys: oh, they aren't |
| 15:07.55 | cbreak-work | they use the first scheme |
| 15:07.56 | Dagmar | Adys: Of course not. It's time-incremented |
| 15:08.00 | Adys | yeah |
| 15:08.16 | Dagmar | Adys: You should be able to tell that from the simple fact that as many times as you poosh teh botton, the number doesn't change until a minute is up |
| 15:08.31 | Kaylin | how do leap seconds come into play with the security tokens? do they have to adjust back from them? |
| 15:08.37 | Dagmar | One fucking second |
| 15:08.40 | Adys | Kaylin: the servers adjust |
| 15:08.44 | cbreak-work | I've seen the second scheme with an e-paper based rsa token |
| 15:08.46 | Adys | and they have a fair bit of margin of error |
| 15:08.56 | Dagmar | It's understood that cheap, dinky devices like that ARE NOT going to keep NIST-quality time |
| 15:09.02 | cbreak-work | Kaylin: they use epoch probably |
| 15:09.04 | cbreak-work | so irrelevant |
| 15:09.08 | Adys | back when i had a physical authenticator, i could use codes with a 5 minutes margin of error |
| 15:09.08 | Dagmar | If you drop them in the snow for 20 minutes, they will suffer a lot of drift |
| 15:09.12 | Kaylin | *nods* |
| 15:09.29 | Dagmar | Depending on the settings on the auth server, the thing can check a number of "before" and "after" numbers |
| 15:09.36 | Adys | aye |
| 15:09.47 | Adys | oh actually |
| 15:09.50 | Dagmar | It'll work out from there if your token is chronically slow and adjust |
| 15:10.02 | Dagmar | ...or if it's just off because you've been bobsledding |
| 15:10.11 | Dagmar | That problem disappeared back in like 97 |
| 15:10.14 | Adys | is there a bnet authenticator server implementation somewhere on github or something? |
| 15:10.24 | Dagmar | Someone literally dropped their token in a snowbank in Vale, CO |
| 15:10.25 | Arrowmaster | yes google flexauth |
| 15:10.42 | Dagmar | Adys: Mind you that this would be sort of stepping on RSA's patent |
| 15:10.51 | Adys | Arrowmaster: flexauth is Antiarc's client |
| 15:10.58 | Arrowmaster | oh server implementation, probably for the mobile one yeah but i dont know |
| 15:11.01 | Dagmar | ...which is a decent patent, which those three guys worked hard to develop and explain |
| 15:11.49 | Shirik | I can hear 3 police sirens going off. I'm pretty sure that's the entire police department responding to a single call. Not sure whether that means something big is going down or they're all just extremely bored and racing each other there. |
| 15:11.51 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: You should be able to write one from the logs in here from the last twenty minutes |
| 15:12.04 | Dagmar | Shirik: There was a bank robbery right outside my damn window yesterday |
| 15:12.11 | Ackis | can I macro tells over battle.net e.g. /tell Joe Smith |
| 15:12.32 | Dagmar | Shirik: Didnt' even sound different from the usual noise outside |
| 15:13.00 | Dagmar | I was angry my other coworkers didn't say anything about it |
| 15:13.05 | Ackis | Shirik: you make a list yet? check it twice? give me some stuff for being naughty and nice? |
| 15:13.14 | Shirik | oh I haven't :( |
| 15:13.17 | Shirik | I've been distracted |
| 15:13.36 | Dagmar | I watched a woman's car get roflmurdered by a power line while she was in it that morning, I wanted to maybe see someone get shot |
| 15:13.57 | Ackis | Shirik: stop with the porn |
| 15:14.39 | Adys | Antiarc: if you figure out how the (future) update to mobile authenticators updates the token, let me know |
| 15:14.50 | Adys | id be happy to add a bna --update-tokens routine |
| 15:14.55 | Dagmar | Here's the problem with the opine.me article: "It is my personal mission, and the mission of my company TapLink, to ultimately provide the software, infrastructure, and education which will allow companies, large and small, to successfully defend from this sort of attack." |
| 15:15.15 | Dagmar | In other words, "We're saying this so people will pay us money." |
| 15:16.19 | Dagmar | ...which is why he's sort of completely neglecting to mention that whether or not the plaintext passwords matter is heavily tempered by the authenticators. |
| 15:18.42 | Dagmar | By the way before anyone can ask, for sure RSAs implementation of the auth server will just start returning "NO" if you try to brute force the number |
| 15:19.05 | Dagmar | The plaintext password being known won't mean suddenly someone only has to search a space of about 500,000 numbers. |
| 15:19.18 | Kalroth | security by obscurity, that saying never gets old |
| 15:19.34 | Dagmar | Especially among people who don't understand cryptography |
| 15:20.08 | Arrowmaster | oh wow an exploit found in utorrent, i totally did not see that coming because of how secure closed source software always is |
| 15:20.25 | nevcairiel | your sarcasm is weak |
| 15:20.29 | Kalroth | its not an exploit, its an additional feature |
| 15:20.39 | Kalroth | i wish people would stop being so negative |
| 15:20.59 | Dagmar | It allows for easier third-party installs of useful software |
| 15:21.00 | Kalroth | its free software, so what if it comes with remote access! |
| 15:21.24 | Dagmar | If you still install Ubi titles, you don't really have room to criticize |
| 15:21.33 | Arrowmaster | this is why ive never trusted utorrent |
| 15:21.54 | Dagmar | I just install BitTorrent and say "eff it" |
| 15:22.02 | Kalroth | well with ubisoft you pay for the extra features, like addtional downtime and remote access through your browser |
| 15:22.04 | nevcairiel | because other clients are any different? :P |
| 15:22.18 | Kalroth | transmission 4 lyfe *brofist* |
| 15:22.31 | nevcairiel | although i havent used any of the new 3.x something versions of utorrent |
| 15:22.33 | Arrowmaster | you KNOW the open source clients are out to protect you because there authors dont want to be caught pirating |
| 15:22.40 | Kalroth | bullocks |
| 15:22.49 | Fisker | hey Arrowmaster |
| 15:22.50 | Fisker | hey nevcairiel |
| 15:22.52 | Fisker | not so hey Kalroth |
| 15:23.01 | Arrowmaster | where as utorrent is owned by a company that has made deals with the MAFIAA |
| 15:23.19 | Kalroth | the only advantage open source got is that there CAN be more eyes on the same source |
| 15:23.32 | Kalroth | apart from that, its equally good and bad |
| 15:24.30 | Kalroth | the vast majority of open source users download PopularProgram-x64.msi anyways |
| 15:25.22 | Fisker | hey Kalroth |
| 15:25.34 | Kalroth | no you nvidia lover |
| 15:25.37 | Kalroth | traitor |
| 15:25.44 | Kalroth | devil spawn |
| 15:26.07 | Fisker | not sure how loving not getting your hands cut off is a bad thing |
| 15:26.26 | Kalroth | well dont steal in the middle east and you'll be fine |
| 15:26.36 | Kalroth | did you get that 690 SLI setup yet, Fisker |
| 15:26.43 | Fisker | that and not buying AMD hardware Kalroth |
| 15:26.48 | *** join/#wowuidev kullervo (~kullervo@IP-62-216-116-60.telemail.fi) |
| 15:26.48 | *** join/#wowuidev kullervo (~kullervo@unaffiliated/ozguli) |
| 15:27.08 | Kalroth | AMD hardware is awesome, its the software that sucks harder than 8 Nilfisk in tandem |
| 15:27.56 | Fisker | the hardware is nothing without the software |
| 15:28.17 | Kalroth | and the software is nothing without the hardware, which is why nvidia suxx! |
| 15:28.48 | Fisker | the hardware isn't better than nvidia to begin with |
| 15:28.50 | Fisker | so no |
| 15:28.54 | *** join/#wowuidev nicoli_s (~nicoli_s@76.164.170.2) |
| 15:28.55 | Kalroth | Fisker, http://media.fukung.net/images/25965/f2e3de1921b505691d1fe399e963cde9.jpg |
| 15:28.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v nicoli_s] by ChanServ |
| 15:29.01 | Fisker | hey nicoli_s |
| 15:34.12 | Dagmar | The more I look at this guy's article the more irritated I am with him |
| 15:34.30 | Dagmar | It's fucking harum-scarem toolery he's engaging in |
| 15:34.45 | nicoli_s | hello fisker |
| 15:36.46 | bluspacecow | (!) |
| 15:37.25 | bluspacecow | i am silly |
| 15:37.36 | bluspacecow | what level is howling fjord? |
| 15:39.49 | Kalroth | 59-62? |
| 15:40.28 | Fisker | hey bluspacecow |
| 15:40.37 | bluspacecow | oh hai |
| 15:49.48 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Here http://www.memestreams.net/thread/bid159340/ |
| 15:50.08 | Dagmar | There's a nice and almost obscenity-free teardown on opine.me's histronic little post |
| 15:50.16 | Dagmar | I fucking hate scare mongers |
| 15:52.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (~Yssaril@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:58.08 | *** join/#wowuidev nailertn (nailertn@BC241DC3.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 16:05.53 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 16:12.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool020.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 16:12.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 16:26.31 | Fisker | so Kalroth i heard AMD might be bought up |
| 16:26.34 | Fisker | is it you? |
| 16:26.57 | Kalroth | yes, i was going to buy RIM or Groupon |
| 16:27.10 | Kalroth | or bet all my money on EA and Zynga |
| 16:27.33 | Kalroth | but i thought it wiser to buy AMD |
| 16:27.55 | Fisker | i don't think you can buy RIM, Groupon, EA or Zynga for 5 dollars |
| 16:28.06 | Kalroth | Groupon is almost there |
| 16:28.11 | Kalroth | RIM will be by the end of the year |
| 16:28.39 | Fisker | unfortunately AMD will be worth 5 zimbabwe dollars by then |
| 16:29.03 | Kalroth | and EA and Zynga are blaming each other for their stock failures, so they're suing |
| 16:37.56 | Dagmar | It's win-win for everybody |
| 16:38.35 | Dagmar | I'm with Buckley on this http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20120806 |
| 16:38.44 | Dagmar | Let the gratuitous suing begin! |
| 16:39.13 | Dagmar | EA isn't blaming them for their stock failures, by the way |
| 16:39.31 | Dagmar | They're blaming Zynga's ripping off their game for the reason no one's playing Sims Social |
| 16:40.12 | Dagmar | ...instead of addressing the fact that it's probably the most annoying form of "social" game ever because you're almost constantly hounded to rat out your friends for units of playtime |
| 16:42.37 | *** join/#wowuidev nilyaK (~Kaylin@71-35-110-25.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 16:46.04 | Fisker | i like the sims social |
| 16:46.17 | Elkano | you also liked WWII |
| 16:50.10 | pompy | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM1wjs5nWXQ&feature=youtu.be |
| 16:54.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Waky_ (6165d318@gateway/web/freenode/ip.97.101.211.24) |
| 16:54.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@host86-181-147-57.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:58.01 | Fisker | hey haste |
| 16:58.04 | Fisker | wanna be god? |
| 16:58.15 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: yeah more 'social' games should be like this http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/iocainestudios/steam-bandits-outpost-0 |
| 17:01.04 | Adys | Kalroth: I think you could buy RIM with a groupon |
| 17:01.19 | Adys | Kalroth: "Buy Nokia and RIM and get a free Windows Phone!" |
| 17:01.37 | Fisker | since when did obsidian entertainment turn into iocaine studios? |
| 17:01.47 | Adys | cocaine what? |
| 17:03.56 | Sintacks | wat |
| 17:03.57 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzelezz (~zenzelezz@cm-84.212.107.146.getinternet.no) |
| 17:03.57 | Sintacks | o |
| 17:12.14 | Fisker | man Arrowmaster |
| 17:12.17 | Fisker | shit game |
| 17:15.09 | foxlit | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Category_intersection << i wonder why this never went anywhere |
| 17:20.01 | Arrowmaster | Fisker: yeah probably, but their idea of a social game is better than the crap ea and zynga put out |
| 17:20.35 | Jamash | Fisker: a colorless, odorless, tasteless and highly soluble video game studio? |
| 17:20.51 | Fisker | doesn't seem to have a purpose Arrowmaster |
| 17:22.15 | Jamash | do games need a purpose? |
| 17:22.27 | nilyaK | yes |
| 17:22.59 | nilyaK | otherwise they degrade into trolling and chaos, even if the purpose is simple like calvinball, games need one |
| 17:23.10 | Jamash | I disagree |
| 17:23.49 | nilyaK | while this doesn't prove anything, do you have an example of a game without a purpose? |
| 17:23.59 | nilyaK | I'd be interested to experience it |
| 17:25.59 | Jamash | irc |
| 17:26.19 | Fisker | got a phone Jamash ? |
| 17:26.28 | Jamash | Fisker: a dumbphone |
| 17:26.28 | nilyaK | irc games or specifically the irc protocol? |
| 17:26.33 | Fisker | ok Jamash |
| 17:26.37 | Fisker | wanna be friends |
| 17:26.39 | Fisker | ? |
| 17:26.44 | Jamash | I thought we were already friends :( |
| 17:27.04 | Fisker | oh ok |
| 17:27.06 | Fisker | we are |
| 17:27.11 | Jamash | yay! |
| 17:29.25 | Jamash | so, if I were to buy a no-contract android phone, activate it, and let it run out of minutes, could I use it as a wifiphone with googel voice and whatnot? |
| 17:29.47 | Jamash | but still retain the ability to call 911 in emergencies? |
| 17:31.28 | Fisker | idk |
| 17:31.35 | Fisker | you should be able to call 911 obviously |
| 17:31.42 | Fisker | but can't use google voice here |
| 17:31.47 | Fisker | so don't know how it works |
| 17:32.17 | Fisker | why not just buy it though it's cheap! |
| 17:32.37 | Fisker | i get 6GB, 6 Hours of Talk, unlimited SMS and MMS for ~20$ |
| 17:32.56 | Jamash | I'm in the USA Fisker |
| 17:32.59 | Fisker | i know |
| 17:33.01 | Fisker | i'm being a dick :D |
| 17:33.02 | Jamash | we don't get good service for decent prices |
| 17:33.53 | foxlit | hey Fisker, what happens if you use 6.1GB instead? |
| 17:34.01 | Jamash | so wait, virgin mobile offers unlimited messaging and data for $35/mo? |
| 17:34.07 | Jamash | and 300 minutes? |
| 17:34.22 | Jamash | my current carrier wants $30/mo for *just the data plan* |
| 17:34.27 | Jamash | sms extra |
| 17:34.30 | Jamash | voice extra |
| 17:34.33 | nevcairiel | define unlimited data |
| 17:34.47 | nevcairiel | i mean, all our data plans are unlimited |
| 17:34.51 | nevcairiel | you never pay a cent extra |
| 17:34.58 | nevcairiel | it just gets slower after X GB |
| 17:35.39 | Jamash | that's Virgin's definition |
| 17:35.42 | Fisker | nothing foxlit |
| 17:35.53 | Fisker | well the download gets slower |
| 17:36.01 | Jamash | as opposed to "pay us $X per MB after you exceed the limit" which should be illegal |
| 17:36.02 | foxlit | because some jerks like to charge /MB in that case |
| 17:36.19 | Fisker | it's oister |
| 17:36.23 | Fisker | though i hate 3 |
| 17:36.31 | Fisker | best and cheapest provider at the moment :'( |
| 17:36.37 | Arrowmaster | Jamash: yes you should be able to use it as a wifi phone, but youll need to get an app to do google voice over voip, and ive heard of some phones needing a sim chip to boot but i dont think new ones do that |
| 17:36.46 | nevcairiel | I don't think anyone still charges /MB around here unless you dont get any data plan |
| 17:36.58 | Jamash | I'm guessing android has a google voice app? |
| 17:37.04 | Arrowmaster | it does |
| 17:37.26 | Arrowmaster | but youll need a 3rd party app to do google voice over voip, theres a few of them |
| 17:37.38 | mikma | it's quite horrible for ie. finnish language |
| 17:38.21 | Jamash | that's stupid |
| 17:39.56 | Arrowmaster | https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.snrblabs.grooveip&feature=more_from_developer |
| 17:39.59 | Arrowmaster | is one of the apps |
| 17:41.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Silvanas (~bot@ip73-40-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 17:41.52 | Silvanas | hi guys |
| 17:42.02 | TC-Work | what about the gals? |
| 17:42.19 | bluspacecow | i go sleepys nows |
| 17:42.21 | Silvanas | girls cant write code.. |
| 17:42.24 | bluspacecow | \o |
| 17:42.35 | Fisker | i'm not sure what to do bluspacecow |
| 17:42.48 | TC-Work | ~fail Fisker |
| 17:42.48 | purl | Fisker, you Fail! |
| 17:43.19 | Silvanas | but ofc j/k, hello to the gals also! |
| 17:44.35 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 17:44.47 | Fisker | hey kd3 |
| 17:49.02 | TC-Work | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9rgG2vPAvQ and these are some of the retards i work with |
| 17:50.46 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 17:51.12 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 17:53.21 | kd3 | whuhs at the beta launcher |
| 17:54.27 | Silvanas | we are the beta club! |
| 17:55.25 | Silvanas | lol otimisatin process takes between 15 and 60 minuntes? WTF |
| 17:56.11 | kd3 | at least they're repacking the MPQs rather than making us redownload all 17 gigs again |
| 17:57.18 | Silvanas | yeh thats a good thing |
| 17:58.00 | Silvanas | so is anyone working on some nice addons? |
| 17:59.19 | AcidWeb | Silvanas: Special addon that slap Fisker everytime when ppl press W. |
| 18:00.38 | Silvanas | poor fisker, |
| 18:01.11 | Silvanas | i did decompile the andriod wow remote before trying to set up a chat link between wow and my guilds forum chat :D |
| 18:04.46 | Yoshimo | the best would be for those that tested mop beta, to copy over the files to the live folder instead of downloading them from the net^^ |
| 18:05.57 | Silvanas | yeh i was thiking abnout that if it would work |
| 18:06.17 | Yoshimo | Silvanas : spending my time on data collection for nimhfrees grail database of quests, with the 4th char leveling now^^ |
| 18:06.22 | Silvanas | would be a cheat tho if you gonig for world first and you cna enter about 30 minutes faster |
| 18:06.28 | Yoshimo | im sure blizzard could ease the pain of my slow connection :) |
| 18:06.37 | kd3 | ugh, 1.47gb left to download |
| 18:06.39 | kd3 | grr |
| 18:06.52 | Yoshimo | well most data comes with the 5.01 prepatch anyway so the data is there before you enter pandaria |
| 18:07.04 | Silvanas | hmm true\ |
| 18:07.19 | Silvanas | bnut all pandaren continent data & models wont be in there |
| 18:07.57 | Stanzilla | wouldnt be so sure about that |
| 18:08.13 | Yoshimo | didnt the game predownload cata files if you set the cata accounttype in the wtf last time? i mean you can preorder mop already |
| 18:08.27 | Stanzilla | yes |
| 18:09.43 | Silvanas | only 20mb to download for me lol |
| 18:09.58 | Yoshimo | 27,6 or something yea |
| 18:11.51 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 18:12.11 | Stanzilla | New build for WoW - enUS: 15595 |
| 18:12.13 | Stanzilla | wat is this |
| 18:12.16 | Stanzilla | I dont even |
| 18:12.20 | Silvanas | i dont now if any of you ever sucseeded in making thread's in wow lua? |
| 18:13.17 | Arrowmaster | you can use coroutines |
| 18:13.41 | Arrowmaster | they are used heavily by certain addons like Routes |
| 18:13.55 | Silvanas | oww thoguh no addon used them |
| 18:14.37 | cbreak | lua doesn't actually support threads |
| 18:14.41 | cbreak | it's not thread safe itself |
| 18:15.11 | Silvanas | yeh i know but i did see some threat lib i think in ace maybe that works |
| 18:15.52 | cbreak | they probably just use the normal coroutines to have yieldable/resumable stack state |
| 18:16.27 | Silvanas | idea i would like to get main executing code to "pause" but for wow to continue so that like 5 minutes later i can finish that first method call function |
| 18:16.53 | Arrowmaster | thats exactly what coroutines are mainly used for in wow |
| 18:17.41 | Silvanas | 1 threat must remain active, and while that is active wow does not handle new events or does it ? |
| 18:18.45 | kd3 | threat~=thread |
| 18:19.07 | Silvanas | its an ingame debugger, like if i want to debug a function the would get called somewhere by some event in wow, the main threat stops while debugger takes over and when the debugger is done the function continues, but for example you could de debugging for 10 or 15 minutes in that same function and you dont want you entire wow to "hang" |
| 18:19.36 | Stanzilla | Allan Odgaard, the developer of the popular TextMate text editor for Mac OS X, has open sourced version 2.0 of his software. |
| 18:25.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (~Robsato@541AE7CC.cm-5-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 18:26.48 | Arrowmaster | first world problem, im running out of deposit slips in my checkbook but have plenty of checks left |
| 18:27.33 | Silvanas | i thoguh you could include an almost endless amount of cheques in 1 pay and slip |
| 18:27.55 | Arrowmaster | you can |
| 18:28.00 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@69.224.70.199) |
| 18:29.03 | kd3 | eek /var/log/messages is at 5GB |
| 18:29.13 | kd3 | wonders what kernel bug he's run in to this time |
| 18:29.28 | Arrowmaster | should have seen mine when the HDD was dying |
| 18:30.05 | Arrowmaster | guess ill drive up and finally deposite this pay check |
| 18:30.55 | Jamash | there are internet banks you can use to deposit a check with your cell phone camera |
| 18:31.39 | Jamash | you should see if your bank allows that |
| 18:31.51 | kd3 | grr, it's my wireless driver |
| 18:32.09 | kd3 | sighs and looks for something that doesn't rely on a driver in /staging to use |
| 18:32.41 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 18:32.59 | nilyaK | hotfixes? |
| 18:36.32 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 18:37.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Guest95895 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 18:37.22 | kd3 | grr |
| 18:37.28 | Silvanas | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:38.00 | Silvanas | beta launcher went from 27MB to 1.13GB and when it was at 0 it went to 300BM remaining :D |
| 18:38.05 | Silvanas | *mb |
| 18:38.22 | kd3 | I'm up to ~1.7GB |
| 18:38.31 | kd3 | bleh again |
| 18:38.50 | nevcairiel | i still dont remember mine downloading any significant amount today |
| 18:39.08 | nevcairiel | 1.7gb would've taken like 7 minutes or so, i would've noticed! |
| 18:39.14 | End_ | mmine wanted to optmize |
| 18:39.21 | nilyaK | my downloader on live is up, I closed it bc it said it was going to DL 21GB of data, I hope that's a lie. |
| 18:39.21 | nevcairiel | that mine did too |
| 18:39.38 | nevcairiel | the preload started? |
| 18:39.39 | nilyaK | 21GB wow 4.3.3.15354 to 4.3.4.15595 |
| 18:39.55 | nevcairiel | oh not even preload |
| 18:40.01 | nilyaK | yea, so idfk what that is |
| 18:40.07 | nilyaK | but I can login without it |
| 18:40.15 | Mooootig | it's not downloading 21gb |
| 18:40.16 | nevcairiel | whole of wow is not even 21gb yet |
| 18:40.18 | Mooootig | I think it's 5 |
| 18:40.33 | Mooootig | when I started the download it started at 16 of 21gb complete |
| 18:40.41 | Alram | It's the 5.0 preload |
| 18:40.44 | Alram | calm yourselves |
| 18:40.50 | End_ | I refuse to be calmed |
| 18:40.53 | End_ | your not my dad |
| 18:40.55 | End_ | you're |
| 18:41.01 | End_ | wow what is wrong with me today |
| 18:41.13 | nilyaK | clams herself. |
| 18:41.14 | Dagmar | nothing a good beating won't fix |
| 18:41.20 | End_ | YOU'RE NOT MY DAD |
| 18:41.29 | nevcairiel | mine now says "Completed 9.34 GB of 15.4 GB" |
| 18:41.34 | Dagmar | No, but I can pretend if that's what gets you excited. |
| 18:41.38 | End_ | :< |
| 18:41.40 | Dagmar | heheh |
| 18:42.12 | nevcairiel | getting 4MB/s from the blizzard http seed, good times |
| 18:43.12 | End_ | only about 2MB/s for me |
| 18:43.21 | End_ | although I'm also downloading other stuff too so w/e |
| 18:43.34 | Alram | ak.wor.. is always DLing at my top speed |
| 18:43.35 | End_ | and I started launcher through remote desktop |
| 18:43.35 | Alram | shits fast |
| 18:43.42 | Alram | att even faster sometimes |
| 18:43.46 | Alram | :D |
| 18:43.50 | End_ | so I'm not even at home |
| 18:43.59 | kd3 | I'm maxing out my downstream, not that that's hard to do |
| 18:44.03 | kd3 | 160KB/s |
| 18:44.07 | Alram | ha |
| 18:45.56 | Kraps | blizzard was hacked? |
| 18:46.11 | kd3 | yar, read up and go change your password |
| 18:46.20 | Alram | unless EU |
| 18:46.24 | Alram | then just change your email |
| 18:46.26 | Alram | or whatever :D |
| 18:46.49 | Silvanas | well mine is done about 50 minnutes after i started it |
| 18:47.01 | nevcairiel | i removed my authenticator and re-attached it with a fresh key, just to be safe |
| 18:47.22 | End_ | yeah I need to dothat |
| 18:47.57 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|hate`net (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 18:48.20 | kd3|hate`net | wow, sigh |
| 18:50.53 | Jamash | silver lining is I should be able to reset my "secret" question without calling support |
| 18:51.02 | Jamash | (I don't remember the answer) |
| 18:51.15 | Jamash | ("secret" questions are terrible and awful and bad) |
| 18:51.18 | End_ | I don't remember mine either |
| 18:51.24 | nevcairiel | security questions are the biggest insecurity measure there is |
| 18:51.41 | nevcairiel | if people answer honestly its so f'ing easy to socialengineer that |
| 18:51.49 | nevcairiel | heck, sometimes facebook is enough to just look it up :P |
| 18:52.02 | Dagmar | i was saying yesterday to _invent_ a person |
| 18:52.06 | Kraps | why isnt my ipod connecting to the router |
| 18:52.23 | Dagmar | their hobbies are "murder", their favorite color is "suffering" |
| 18:52.26 | Sintacks | "What was your first pet's name?" "penisface" |
| 18:52.27 | Kraps | i cant to the authenticator thing |
| 18:52.41 | Arrowmaster | i was locked out of my XBL account for a month because they wanted the full name of the account holder to verify I was the legit owner and kept saying it was incorrect |
| 18:52.53 | Dagmar | My personal favorite is asking anyone who is under 21 what their favorite band is |
| 18:53.01 | Dagmar | ...or anyone under 18 who their favorite author it. |
| 18:53.08 | nevcairiel | i cant even find the option to change the security question |
| 18:53.08 | Dagmar | Those will change inside of six months. |
| 18:53.09 | Kraps | oh you can buy mop digital already |
| 18:53.14 | Arrowmaster | turned out they system was broken and didnt use the full name when i created the account but instead used the name on the first credit card i put on the account |
| 18:53.28 | Silvanas | http://www.fear.fm/radio/player - my favorite music |
| 18:53.30 | nevcairiel | where the hell is the option? :P |
| 18:53.37 | nevcairiel | or do EU accounts not have it? :p |
| 18:54.11 | nevcairiel | changing my email address asks me for the question |
| 18:54.11 | Kraps | nevcairiel, i cant either :/ |
| 18:54.12 | nevcairiel | great |
| 18:54.18 | nevcairiel | but i cant change it apparently |
| 18:54.18 | Dagmar | Validating that information with a support rep tends to be tense unless you're a particular type of person |
| 18:54.44 | Kraps | uh im not changing my email adress |
| 18:55.03 | Jamash | you have to call support to change your secret question nevcairiel |
| 18:55.08 | nevcairiel | they said they want to automate the process of changing the question for everyone soon |
| 18:55.13 | Jamash | yeah |
| 18:55.16 | Jamash | "soon(tm)" |
| 18:55.18 | nevcairiel | guess i might wait as well |
| 18:55.29 | Jamash | I'm going to make something up and store it in keepass |
| 18:55.34 | Sintacks | I prefer custom secret quetions |
| 18:55.47 | Jamash | like what is your favorite author? banana pudding |
| 18:55.48 | Dagmar | They'll have to either make everyone login to the website, or add some stuff to the client UI so that it can ask |
| 18:55.59 | nevcairiel | most likely website |
| 18:56.00 | Sintacks | cuz then you can do random ass questions that you really are going to be the only person who knows the answer |
| 18:56.11 | Kraps | "With regard to Mobile Authenticators, information was taken that could potentially compromise the integrity of North American Mobile Authenticators." :/ |
| 18:56.12 | nevcairiel | Sintacks: its stupid when you get asked on the phone, though |
| 18:56.15 | Dagmar | Jamash: Oh I looooved telling some little old lady at Geico that my hobby was "violent masturbation" |
| 18:56.26 | Jamash | yeah like what did I steal from a grocery store when I was 7? |
| 18:56.30 | Sintacks | lol nevcairiel. potentially funny though |
| 18:56.36 | Jamash | good luck with that one |
| 18:56.50 | Dagmar | Jamash: Law enforcement is so sneaky sometimes |
| 18:56.57 | Sintacks | "When was the first time you fapped, and what to?" "10. ur mom" |
| 18:57.14 | Dagmar | I way prefer it when a site lets me put in my own secret questions |
| 18:58.01 | Jamash | did you see the apple -> amazon -> google -> twitter haxor chain? |
| 18:58.14 | mckenziemc | ? |
| 18:58.42 | Jamash | what one company considers "secret" enough to use for phone verification of identity is displayed on the account settings page by another |
| 18:58.47 | Jamash | (last 4 digits of credit card) |
| 18:59.24 | Arrowmaster | hell those are printed on every recipt |
| 18:59.25 | mckenziemc | >.> |
| 18:59.36 | Jamash | http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/08/apple-amazon-mat-honan-hacking/all/ |
| 19:00.04 | Jamash | I didn't realize you could use someone's apple id to remote wipe their macbook |
| 19:01.04 | Jamash | I need an unlimited text plan so I can use google two-factor auth |
| 19:01.21 | Arrowmaster | get an android phone and you can use their app |
| 19:02.47 | Jamash | yeah |
| 19:04.49 | Jamash | clearly we need some kind of modular two-factor device |
| 19:04.59 | Jamash | that isn't networked |
| 19:05.10 | Jamash | which is a tricky proposition |
| 19:06.22 | Jamash | one that could store independent keying material for multiple accounts |
| 19:06.37 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem_ (~Darrin@c-24-10-17-129.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:06.44 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 19:11.12 | Adys | math guys: what's a function I can apply to a number to ensure it's both unique and positive? |
| 19:11.49 | Adys | eg func(-1) would return 123, but func(123) would not return 123 |
| 19:12.27 | Jamash | I'm confused |
| 19:12.46 | Jamash | you mean a function you can apply to an integer to transform it into a unique natural number? |
| 19:12.49 | kd3 | a hash function? |
| 19:13.11 | kd3 | for varying definitions of unique |
| 19:13.18 | Adys | kd3: not a hash function, i need absolute uniqueness |
| 19:13.25 | Jamash | is the domain all integers or a restricted set |
| 19:13.41 | Adys | in my case its a restricted set but thats too easy |
| 19:13.48 | Jamash | if you're talking about ints in a computer just cast to unsigned |
| 19:13.58 | Adys | im curious how it would be for all ints |
| 19:14.09 | Jamash | map positive to odds, negative to evens |
| 19:15.01 | mckenziemc | or just use the sign bit as the most significant bit of an unsigned |
| 19:15.05 | Adys | so 1->1, 2->3, 3->5, ... -1->2, -2->-4, -3->-6? |
| 19:15.11 | mckenziemc | but you can't have 0 as the output? |
| 19:15.12 | Adys | -3->6* |
| 19:15.49 | Jamash | f(x) if x < 0 then return -2*x else if x > 0 return 2x-1 |
| 19:15.51 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@cpc2-craw2-0-0-cust1299.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 19:15.51 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 19:16.00 | Jamash | else return 0 |
| 19:16.01 | Adys | yeah clever |
| 19:16.02 | Adys | thanks |
| 19:16.36 | Jamash | you could also convert to base -2 but that's more complicated |
| 19:16.52 | Adys | no this is perfect |
| 19:16.54 | mikma | http://imgur.com/gallery/9ftuy |
| 19:17.06 | mckenziemc | isn't there one value that's going to overflow there Jamash |
| 19:17.23 | Arrowmaster | mikma: you got me |
| 19:17.45 | Arrowmaster | but in my defense im dyslexic |
| 19:17.51 | Jamash | mckenziemc: that was for general integers, not for fixed-width integers |
| 19:18.30 | mckenziemc | yeah |
| 19:18.34 | Humbedooh | mikma, I noticed :( |
| 19:19.58 | Jamash | I could give you a version optimized for converting from twos complement to unsigned binary but I'm too lazy |
| 19:21.30 | mckenziemc | my point is i don't think it's possible using the same width input and output |
| 19:21.51 | Jamash | well you can map N inputs to N outputs |
| 19:21.56 | Jamash | at some point you run out of room |
| 19:24.05 | mckenziemc | i'm assuming he meant what he said though (positive output, vs nonnegative) |
| 19:24.51 | Jamash | given that he needed to ask the question I'm not going to assume whether or not it was worded precisely |
| 19:30.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|work (cc32711d@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 19:30.19 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|work] by ChanServ |
| 19:37.57 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 19:40.48 | Kraps | in america, you have the freedom to choose to not use your flying mount, so dont take away my freedom to use it |
| 19:40.50 | Kraps | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6247964897?page=4#77 |
| 19:41.07 | Kraps | this is america dammit |
| 19:42.53 | mckenziemc | :< |
| 19:46.54 | Dagmar | I have a better idea. |
| 19:47.11 | Dagmar | Just for this guy, level 130 fire breathing flying snakes that move at 500% speed, always crit, and aggro anything that tries to fly |
| 19:47.28 | Dagmar | ...which do triple equipment damage. |
| 19:48.41 | Esamynn|work | ~cheer Dagmar |
| 19:48.41 | purl | ACTION cheers Dagmar on |
| 19:52.14 | Vladinator | what does "this is america" mean? |
| 19:53.04 | mckenziemc | it means he's a tool |
| 19:53.32 | Vladinator | I hear it a lot, what does it mean to be a tool? like being taken advantage of to accomplish something or? |
| 19:53.46 | Corrodias | it means jerk |
| 19:53.52 | Corrodias | tool, jerk, asshole, same things |
| 19:54.04 | Corrodias | i don't think it has any clever meaning |
| 19:54.17 | mckenziemc | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tool |
| 19:54.17 | Vladinator | wonder how "tool" became jerk when its already a perfectly well established word :P |
| 19:54.29 | mckenziemc | not jerk |
| 19:54.43 | Vladinator | I see. not sure how trustworthy urbandictionary is tough... :3 |
| 19:54.48 | Corrodias | ah, that's possible. i am not aware of having heard it used that way, specifically. |
| 19:54.58 | Vladinator | I wouldn't write my doctorate with it as sources, if you know what I mean ;) |
| 19:55.37 | mckenziemc | i'm kinda misusing it too |
| 19:55.41 | Corrodias | i think that whoever this is that started this thread hasn't been playing blizzard games for very long, or is an idiot. |
| 19:55.50 | Amarande | heh, yeah. I think you'd only want to use urbandictionary as a source if you were writing your paper on, say, modern digital culture :) |
| 19:56.04 | mckenziemc | go back to bed Amarande |
| 19:56.35 | Amarande | I'm guessing people are still kvetching about the fact that we're going to have a round of five levels of no flying? |
| 19:57.04 | Vladinator | amarande are you german? :D |
| 19:57.07 | Amarande | do you at least get Pandarian flying unlocked as soon as you ding 90, or do we have to pay another flying training fee? |
| 19:57.26 | Vladinator | I think you pay, I paid on the beta recall. |
| 19:57.57 | Dagmar | Wow |
| 19:58.14 | Dagmar | New guy in the security team just crossed a line |
| 19:58.27 | mckenziemc | uh oh |
| 19:58.30 | Vladinator | Dagmar: go on... |
| 19:58.42 | Dagmar | When I ask "Why do you need access to that" the answer is not "Just give me access to the system" |
| 19:59.18 | Dagmar | Espeically when said request came from the user directly, out of the blue, with no mention of it freom anyone like a manager |
| 19:59.21 | mckenziemc | do it dagmar |
| 19:59.27 | Vladinator | do it dagmar |
| 19:59.29 | mckenziemc | or else |
| 20:00.07 | Jamash | pandaria isn't america |
| 20:00.07 | Esamynn|work | Pandaria flight is either 1500 or 2500 gold |
| 20:00.15 | mckenziemc | good point Jamash |
| 20:00.27 | Dagmar | If I wanted to be a dick about it, I'd just give him joe user access on the system, with which he would be able to do a whole lotta nothing |
| 20:00.29 | Vladinator | I think it was 5k |
| 20:00.47 | Esamynn|work | no, it definately wasn't 5k when I last looked |
| 20:00.48 | Vladinator | the gold generation is very high so 2.5k sounds a bit low tbh |
| 20:00.52 | Esamynn|work | which was... last wee I think |
| 20:00.57 | Esamynn|work | s/wee/week/ |
| 20:01.14 | Vladinator | you can be right |
| 20:01.28 | Jamash | how much was azerothian flying? |
| 20:01.29 | Esamynn|work | Dagmar: if it's in any way sensitive, then I say do exactly that :P |
| 20:01.37 | Jamash | 500g? |
| 20:01.38 | Vladinator | 100g for azeroth |
| 20:01.40 | Amarande | 5k seems too high though, I mean, you get epic flying training for 5k |
| 20:01.41 | Vladinator | it's very cheap |
| 20:01.43 | Jamash | ah |
| 20:02.02 | Dagmar | It's a monitoring system with slightly priviledged access to everything on campus, which is why I'm cautious |
| 20:02.04 | Jamash | Amarande: but by the time you hit 90 you have gold out the wazoo |
| 20:02.05 | Esamynn|work | 5k used to be a lot of gold ;) |
| 20:02.15 | Dagmar | It's *likely* he needs access to that he can poll the status of his department's firewalls |
| 20:02.22 | Dagmar | ..which is acutally not what he was asking for. |
| 20:02.24 | Vladinator | I think I got 5k g just questing to 90, probably more, I didn't really pay attention. |
| 20:02.32 | Esamynn|work | I remember being very happy when I finally got to 5k and could do my Swift Flight Form quest :) |
| 20:02.35 | Vladinator | I had 30k last time I checked and I think I started at 85 with 20k |
| 20:02.44 | Dagmar | Also, I am unimpressed with the fact that he "didn't feel comfortable" includin his ssh pubkey in the request |
| 20:02.50 | Jamash | lolwut |
| 20:02.57 | Esamynn|work | yah, I'd almost be surprised if you only made 5k gold from 85-90 questing |
| 20:02.57 | Jamash | "public" |
| 20:02.58 | Amarande | 2.5k sounds more reasonable, seeing that Northrend originally cost 1k |
| 20:03.10 | Jamash | does this guy know what "public key" means |
| 20:03.27 | Amarande | Esamynn: think the BMAH is going to succeed or are we looking more likely at 5-10k gold weekly outlays for basic raid supplies in MoP? |
| 20:03.27 | Jamash | or what asymmetric cryptography is |
| 20:03.32 | Esamynn|work | apparently not |
| 20:03.36 | mckenziemc | you don't just give out public keys Jamash |
| 20:03.48 | Jamash | I don't have enough facepalms |
| 20:03.56 | mckenziemc | :) |
| 20:04.38 | Esamynn|work | Amarande: not a clue, I "quit" wow actually, but 5-10k gold weekly outlays... I NEVER spent anything close to that, even in Cata |
| 20:04.50 | Jamash | Amarande: well either there's crazy inflation so you can make crazy money selling stuff you gather, or there isn't and you can't, either way player created items should cost the same in terms of time to farm? |
| 20:05.08 | Amarande | mostly wondering if that questing gold is going to go away largely on black market AH and the such so prices stay under some semblance of control |
| 20:05.30 | Esamynn|work | it's certainly going to be an interesting experiment |
| 20:05.32 | Amarande | or if we're going to get rampant inflation (and I do remember it was starting to run into the 4 digits in early cata for raid supplies, flasks initially went for hundreds of gold and food was 100g+ a stack) |
| 20:05.38 | Jamash | all inflation really does is decrease the value of vendoring and decrease the cost to buy stuff from vendors |
| 20:05.51 | Amarande | what's worse: this time around, rep grinds are all dailies based |
| 20:05.59 | Jamash | how is that worse |
| 20:06.06 | Esamynn|work | Amarande: now, if I were to be totally honest, my guild supplied me with stuff like that, give I was MT before I quit |
| 20:06.07 | Vladinator | why isn't there a wow interface gallery site that supports tagging and multiple tag searching? like "19:9 resolution + melee dps + shaman + pvp + minimalistic" and so forth, to easier narrow down to what you are looking for. |
| 20:06.10 | Amarande | Jamash: at least when the rep grinds are dungeon based, a lot of gold goes away on repairs from failgroups and wipes |
| 20:06.20 | Dagmar | Jamash: Yeah, it kinda tells me that this guy should watch his arrogance around me, because I actually *do* know how to do his job |
| 20:06.35 | Amarande | when they're dailies based, you'll see runaway net increases in the total server gold pool, since you don't die nearly as often doing dailies as you do doing dungeons |
| 20:06.43 | Jamash | Dagmar: tell him you can replace him with a very short (scripting language of choice) script |
| 20:06.45 | Amarande | so most of the money ends up being net gain instead of a lot of it going to repairs |
| 20:06.49 | mckenziemc | 19:9? o.O |
| 20:06.53 | Dagmar | Jamash: I probably could, actually |
| 20:06.59 | Jamash | well then |
| 20:07.08 | Vladinator | mckenziemc: was just an example, meant 16:9 :p |
| 20:07.12 | Esamynn|work | Dagmar: I have a buddy that literally replaced an annoying co-worker with a script ;) |
| 20:07.20 | Jamash | I find the progress bar on the blizzard launcher very strange |
| 20:07.28 | Dagmar | an RMAH will just mean that all the bad things goldfarmers and speculators do to the economy will increase tenfold |
| 20:07.34 | Amarande | Jamash: the fact that it makes no mention of the word "soon"? |
| 20:07.49 | Jamash | not the one on the launcher main window, the connection info window |
| 20:08.02 | Esamynn|work | oh? |
| 20:08.21 | End_ | it's that just a regular torrent bar |
| 20:08.22 | Esamynn|work | it's a representation of a bit-torrent download, what were you expecting? |
| 20:08.22 | Jamash | it's showing very, very large gaps |
| 20:08.26 | Amarande | Dagmar: BMAH, not RMAH. RMAH is D3, and the gods hope we never get it in WoW :) |
| 20:08.33 | Amarande | BMAH = the super expensive NPC item auctions that are coming in with MoP |
| 20:08.34 | Esamynn|work | that's expected |
| 20:08.38 | Jamash | like, there's more gap than there is data |
| 20:08.41 | End_ | it downloads what is convienently available |
| 20:09.11 | Jamash | unless MoP is twice the size of 5.0 what's all that extra data? |
| 20:09.31 | Jamash | oh it might be other locales |
| 20:09.36 | Jamash | that would make sense |
| 20:09.47 | End_ | I think that entire bar is just MoP stuff it is downloading |
| 20:10.03 | Vladinator | mckenziemc: check your PM |
| 20:10.04 | Jamash | yes but it's only downloading part of it |
| 20:10.06 | Amarande | Applying non-critical updates. Hmmm. Patch soon? |
| 20:10.10 | Jamash | I'm wondering what the data it's not downloading at all is |
| 20:10.20 | mckenziemc | i have nothing to say |
| 20:10.28 | Esamynn|work | it may have simply not gotten to that data yet Jamash |
| 20:10.33 | Jamash | no |
| 20:11.01 | Esamynn|work | or maybe it's data that isn't ready yet? |
| 20:11.03 | Jamash | there's solid bar (existing data), totally empty gap (???), solid bar, empty gap, fuzzy region (downloading now), empty gap, etc. |
| 20:11.14 | Esamynn|work | so and they'll make it available when the patch is released |
| 20:11.22 | Vladinator | maybe wowi can be first out with said gallery system, besides a forum category for posting pictures is hard to look trough and find what you want to use as an interface. |
| 20:11.23 | Jamash | but the gaps are, as I said, very large |
| 20:11.33 | End_ | that's interesting |
| 20:11.34 | Esamynn|work | they could be doing a massive re-org of the install |
| 20:11.35 | Jamash | which would imply a MoP download of at least 20GB |
| 20:11.39 | Esamynn|work | they did that with one beta build |
| 20:11.42 | End_ | I finally looked and I see what you are saying |
| 20:11.43 | Jamash | I'm thinking locales |
| 20:11.53 | Esamynn|work | maybe, but that' wouldn't be normal |
| 20:11.56 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 20:12.02 | Jamash | it's only downloading enus so the gaps are all the other locales |
| 20:12.09 | Jamash | easy enough to test |
| 20:12.14 | End_ | the gaps are a little large to be locales |
| 20:12.22 | Jamash | anyone got the live launcher for a non-enus locale running? |
| 20:12.26 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 20:12.53 | Esamynn|work | End_: no, don't assume that... adding all of the possible locales, if you only had 1 before, roughly doubles the size of the install |
| 20:13.13 | Dagmar | Amarande: OOooh... Effective gold sink, and a hard cap on how much stupidity the goldfarmers can cash in on |
| 20:13.23 | End_ | doubles? that seems like a lot |
| 20:13.34 | Esamynn|work | roughly |
| 20:13.34 | Dagmar | Those prices are high, but rest assured morons pay more |
| 20:13.34 | End_ | even with sound |
| 20:13.52 | Amarande | Dagmar: basically, wondering if it's going to be effective or if gold amounts in the range of making 5k+ from just five levels of questing is going to simply result in more hyperinflation |
| 20:14.14 | Jamash | https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9441366/MoP/Download-bar.png |
| 20:14.19 | mckenziemc | Amarande: applying non-critical updates = arranging data in the Data\Cache folder |
| 20:14.35 | Amarande | Don't forget the inflation from competition for resources in shared zones, too, meaning fewer units of mats on sale on the AH per server |
| 20:14.39 | Jamash | End_: just look at the size of your locale dir |
| 20:14.45 | End_ | that's what mine looks like except that last part is more solid |
| 20:14.58 | Jamash | mine's 1GB |
| 20:15.04 | Jamash | there are about a dozen locales |
| 20:15.06 | Jamash | so... |
| 20:15.10 | Amarande | And the inflation from the fact that with a dailies-oriented rep grind, people will be making more gold than they do with a dungeon-based rep grind and spending less because they're not having to group with fail players who get them killed and force them to repair |
| 20:15.32 | End_ | hm |
| 20:15.44 | End_ | I guess that makes sense |
| 20:15.52 | Amarande | That reminds me, I wonder what queues are going to be like in MoP |
| 20:16.02 | Amarande | seeing as it's less important for people to do dungeons because you'll be able to get valor from dailies |
| 20:16.08 | Esamynn|work | anyways, I think it's more likely that the patch really is just that big, for whatever reason, and the missing sections will become available on patch day |
| 20:16.28 | Esamynn|work | including locales you don't have install as part of your download progress bar wouldn't make any sense |
| 20:16.46 | Jamash | yes it would |
| 20:16.55 | mckenziemc | ~amarande |
| 20:16.56 | purl | ACTION wonders what the next Random Obscure Contingency of the Day will be. |
| 20:17.07 | Jamash | they just didn't bother to modify the bar display code |
| 20:17.28 | Esamynn|work | maybe, but that would be a change, based on previous history |
| 20:17.35 | Jamash | it's much more efficient to put everyone in the same swarm, so they're using one torrent file for everyone |
| 20:17.45 | Amarande | OTOH, it will be less important to queue for dungeons because you'll be able to get valor from dailies :) |
| 20:17.48 | Esamynn|work | hold on |
| 20:17.49 | Jamash | and having the client selectively download certain files |
| 20:18.06 | Esamynn|work | I would expect a seperate swarm for each locale pack, and one big one for the universal data |
| 20:18.14 | Jamash | why? |
| 20:18.24 | mckenziemc | why did you just repeat yourself... |
| 20:18.46 | Jamash | mckenziemc: the good news is x, the bad news is also x |
| 20:18.53 | Jamash | or the other way around |
| 20:18.59 | mckenziemc | :( |
| 20:19.02 | Esamynn|work | other wise they would require special logic in their code to not download the sections of the torrent the user doesn't want |
| 20:19.10 | Jamash | which they clearly do |
| 20:19.19 | Jamash | have |
| 20:19.23 | Esamynn|work | in the torrent download code? |
| 20:19.32 | Jamash | it's not downloading everything, is it? |
| 20:19.41 | Amarande | regarding this download size etc.: how much greater will the disk space requirements for mop be vis-a-vis cata? |
| 20:20.03 | Esamynn|work | I already have you an alternative explanation for that |
| 20:20.12 | Jamash | no you didn't |
| 20:20.27 | Esamynn|work | it's excluding sections that haven't been released yet |
| 20:20.36 | Jamash | which is clearly not the case |
| 20:20.47 | Esamynn|work | because of the size? |
| 20:20.53 | Jamash | yes |
| 20:21.06 | Esamynn|work | that's not an assumption I would make |
| 20:21.32 | Esamynn|work | there was a beta patch that required a complete re-download so they could do a massive re-org of the install |
| 20:21.39 | Jamash | so? |
| 20:21.54 | Esamynn|work | so it's possible they're gonna do that for this patch release as well on live |
| 20:22.10 | Jamash | in that case the bar would not show both sets of data |
| 20:22.16 | Amarande | ok, this is odd |
| 20:22.23 | Amarande | why is the background downloader (live) initialising the 4.3.4 patch? |
| 20:22.28 | Amarande | I already have the 4.3.4 patch |
| 20:22.39 | Jamash | it's predownloading 5.0 |
| 20:23.26 | Amarande | Jamash: hrm. actually what it says at the bottom of the window is "Downloading WoW-4.3.3.15354-to-4.3.4.15595-patch"... |
| 20:23.40 | Stanzilla | doesnt matter what it says |
| 20:23.43 | Jamash | tools update |
| 20:23.54 | Jamash | or something |
| 20:23.56 | Jamash | IDK |
| 20:25.25 | Amarande | heh. Download rate: 18.98 KB/s |
| 20:26.14 | Stanzilla | disable p2p |
| 20:26.16 | Jamash | Esamynn|work: I just opened WoW.tfil and it has files for all the locales |
| 20:26.21 | Jamash | end of debate |
| 20:26.22 | Amarande | Stan: it is disabled :) |
| 20:26.30 | Stanzilla | u lose then |
| 20:26.46 | Esamynn|work | Jamash: colour me surprised then |
| 20:27.11 | Jamash | k |
| 20:27.28 | Esamynn|work | what ARE all of the valid locales these days? |
| 20:28.45 | Jamash | I wrote a perl script to parse torrent files once |
| 20:28.48 | Jamash | I wonder if I still have it |
| 20:30.33 | nevcairiel | its certainly conceivable that they are simply releasing the content in waves |
| 20:30.45 | Sintacks | writes a perl script to trap Jamash in a taco |
| 20:31.41 | mckenziemc | o.o |
| 20:31.44 | Esamynn|work | haha, whoops! |
| 20:31.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~jamash@c-69-246-202-96.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 20:31.57 | Esamynn|work | ~laugh Jamash |
| 20:31.57 | purl | ACTION laughs hysterically at Jamash...ow! laughing so hard, it can't breathe... gasp...gasp...gasp.... ..... ... |
| 20:32.21 | Jamash | wat? |
| 20:32.39 | Esamynn|work | == Jamash [~jamash@c-69-246-202-96.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] |
| 20:33.08 | Jamash | what's your point? |
| 20:33.18 | Esamynn|work | nvm |
| 20:33.20 | mckenziemc | (1:30:45 PM) ***Sintacks writes a perl script to trap Jamash in a taco |
| 20:33.24 | mckenziemc | right before |
| 20:33.55 | Jamash | I'm not sure what causes the excess flood issue, I'm using adiIRC through znc |
| 20:33.59 | Amarande | nevcairiel: and looking at the download speed, by "releasing" they mean much like a dribble glass where the hole is about a nanometre wide releases water |
| 20:34.24 | Jamash | oh |
| 20:34.26 | Jamash | lawl |
| 20:34.35 | Jamash | I unplugged my ethernet cable to get a longer one |
| 20:34.40 | Amarande | At this rate, we might see our 5.0 predownload patch by the time MoP is out :) |
| 20:34.44 | Esamynn|work | have you disabled the throttling on background downloads Amarande? |
| 20:34.46 | End_ | what? the download speed is fine |
| 20:34.58 | Jamash | znc *should* keep me from dropping out / flooding but it doesn't |
| 20:34.59 | Amarande | Ah, there we go |
| 20:35.05 | Esamynn|work | ~fail Amarande |
| 20:35.05 | purl | Amarande, you Fail! |
| 20:35.20 | Amarande | Hey, even James Bond failed like that once. LOL |
| 20:36.12 | Amarande | Remember the bit in ... I think it was The Man With the Golden Gun where Bond is trying to get away on this motorboat and the Thai (I think it was Thailand) kid is trying to sell him the elephant statue, and then he's like "I'll give you twenty thousand baht if you can make this thing go any faster" and the kid just flips a simple switch on the boat? :) |
| 20:36.57 | Amarande | yeah, it was definitely Thailand, that's where they have baht :) |
| 20:37.19 | Jamash | I'm getting between 100KB/s and 200KB/s and my wifi is flaky |
| 20:37.51 | Jamash | I'm also uploading at 115KB/s |
| 20:38.08 | Amarande | I'm getting 1.88MB/s download now that I actually disabled the throttle :) |
| 20:38.42 | Esamynn|work | if my downloader tried to upload that much it'd choke off my download... which it often has in the past :( |
| 20:38.53 | Amarande | I am uploading at a rate of flat zilch. Not going to use up oodles of my Charter bandwidth cap sending the patch to other people :P |
| 20:39.14 | mckenziemc | maybe you should stop sending so much text through your uplink too |
| 20:40.08 | Amarande | oh, hush. |
| 20:41.24 | durcyn | the only problem with Amarande is that his fingers aren't broken |
| 20:41.30 | durcyn | did i say that in the wrong channel? woops. |
| 20:42.38 | Esamynn|work | Jamash: did you manage to find that list of the valid locales? |
| 20:45.44 | Jamash | still working on it |
| 20:45.47 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 20:45.48 | AcidWeb | New BGs are still not enabled on beta server or i need 856+? |
| 20:45.59 | AcidWeb | *86+ |
| 20:47.08 | Jamash | I could cobble one together by hand |
| 20:47.14 | Sintacks | 21GB patch inc |
| 20:47.42 | nevcairiel | you just broke your install |
| 20:48.37 | Sintacks | good thing I have more than one? |
| 20:48.44 | Sintacks | Downstream: 3998.68 KBytes/s Upstream: 71.2 KBytes/s |
| 20:52.17 | Sintacks | hmm. 4 different CDNs at once.. never seen that before |
| 20:54.21 | Sintacks | So, 2 Tuesdays, or three before 5.0 |
| 20:55.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@host86-181-34-9.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:55.37 | nevcairiel | i would vote for the 28th probably |
| 20:57.16 | End_ | yeah 28th seems more likely |
| 20:57.31 | End_ | but I'm going to try to have everything ready by the 21st |
| 20:58.28 | nevcairiel | what ready? |
| 20:58.45 | End_ | mostly just getting my ui set up properly is left |
| 20:58.58 | End_ | I've some addon code I still need to work on though |
| 21:01.34 | *** join/#wowuidev arton (~arton@63.142.161.8) |
| 21:02.09 | Jamash | deDE enCN enGB enTW enUS esES esMX frFR koKR ptBR ptPT ruRU zhCN zhTW |
| 21:02.27 | Corrodias | chinese english, eh? |
| 21:02.34 | Jamash | singapore? |
| 21:02.44 | Corrodias | i dunno |
| 21:03.48 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 21:03.58 | Sintacks | "18.3GB of 21GB - About 12 minutes" |
| 21:07.47 | zenzelezz | 21 GB? That's not a lot of porn |
| 21:08.05 | TC-Work | But not a lot of BR porn |
| 21:08.19 | mckenziemc | wat |
| 21:09.30 | Jamash | how does one find out whether a particular git commit is in a particular branch |
| 21:09.38 | Sintacks | guessing |
| 21:09.43 | Dagmar | Faith. |
| 21:09.46 | Mr_Rabies | >2012 |
| 21:09.52 | TC-Work | mckenziemc: blu-ray |
| 21:09.54 | Dagmar | because, you kno, git is clearly superior to everything else |
| 21:09.55 | Mr_Rabies | >still no way to limit upload on blizzard downloader |
| 21:09.59 | Mr_Rabies | damnit blizzard |
| 21:10.09 | Dagmar | There are absolutely no features it lacks. |
| 21:10.11 | nevcairiel | turn off p2p, limits to 0 |
| 21:10.12 | foxlit | Mr_Rabies: turn it off, problem solved. |
| 21:10.21 | Mr_Rabies | but that generally stops the download too |
| 21:10.22 | Mr_Rabies | :( |
| 21:10.25 | mckenziemc | TC-Work: not the point |
| 21:10.26 | Jamash | yeah git is so superior, it's superior to its users |
| 21:10.26 | foxlit | no |
| 21:10.33 | nevcairiel | i got 5MB/s from the http seeds |
| 21:10.35 | Dagmar | Mr_Rabies: You could always learn how to do QoS yourself |
| 21:10.41 | foxlit | their HTTP seeds are generally better than P2P. |
| 21:10.47 | Dagmar | ...or just let the damn thing download overnight when you sleep |
| 21:10.52 | Arrowmaster | Jamash: its possible but i dont recall how |
| 21:10.58 | Jamash | git is a piece of shit |
| 21:11.08 | Mr_Rabies | i just turned it off and it's now going at KB/s |
| 21:11.09 | Mr_Rabies | :( |
| 21:11.13 | Mr_Rabies | 5 |
| 21:11.22 | Mr_Rabies | 0.2 now |
| 21:11.23 | Mr_Rabies | yeehaw |
| 21:11.43 | Arrowmaster | Jamash: you have the commits id hash? |
| 21:11.45 | Dagmar | I wouldn't say it's a piece of shit, but I would like to start mounting the heads of people who squeal "YOU SHOULD BE USING X BECAUSE Y IS SHITCAKES" on fucking pikes |
| 21:12.07 | Jamash | there's a reason the wrappers around it are called "porcelain" |
| 21:12.16 | Arrowmaster | git branch --contains <commit> |
| 21:12.17 | Jamash | Arrowmaster: yes |
| 21:12.31 | Dagmar | With revision control systems, it's pretty much a given that such statements bespeak naievety |
| 21:12.35 | TC-Work | mckenziemc: you asked 'wat' |
| 21:12.36 | Jamash | what about on github |
| 21:12.48 | Arrowmaster | i doubt github has that feature |
| 21:12.56 | Arrowmaster | github is not git |
| 21:13.10 | mckenziemc | "That's not a lot of porn" "But not a lot of BR porn" |
| 21:13.34 | TC-Work | oh...yea, i misread that |
| 21:13.40 | Mr_Rabies | huehuehuehue |
| 21:13.44 | mckenziemc | :p |
| 21:13.49 | Jamash | git isn't git either |
| 21:14.08 | Mr_Rabies | now the download's completely dead |
| 21:14.11 | Jamash | git isn't anything in my experience |
| 21:14.16 | Mr_Rabies | THANKS DAGMAR, YA BLEW IT |
| 21:14.24 | Mr_Rabies | :p |
| 21:15.19 | nevcairiel | its not only git wrappers that are called porcelain, its quite normal to speak about "plumbing" and "porcelain" as backend + frontend |
| 21:16.43 | Jamash | normal among whom |
| 21:18.44 | Jamash | the problem with git is the porcelain isn't connected to any plumbing |
| 21:18.58 | Jamash | linus just took a giant dump in a bathtub and called it a day |
| 21:19.57 | Arrowmaster | linus has worked on git in years |
| 21:20.05 | Jamash | precisely |
| 21:20.07 | nevcairiel | has not* |
| 21:20.18 | Arrowmaster | yeah has not |
| 21:20.27 | Jamash | other people have been piling more on top since then, but his is still at the bottom of the pile |
| 21:20.31 | Sintacks | and down |
| 21:20.34 | Sintacks | a few minutse ago |
| 21:20.36 | Sintacks | cuz i forgot |
| 21:21.23 | Esamynn|work | thanks for that Jamash |
| 21:21.34 | *** join/#wowuidev arton_ (~arton@tx-184-6-182-107.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 21:21.37 | Jamash | yw |
| 21:22.32 | Jamash | I gave up on parsing and just used a regex to haul out occurrences of "update-[a-z]{2}[A-Z]{2}" |
| 21:22.48 | Sintacks | attempts to write another perl script to trap Jamash in a fishstick |
| 21:22.56 | Jamash | laziness triumphs once again |
| 21:22.58 | Arrowmaster | Jamash: i gave you the command to use |
| 21:23.12 | Jamash | Arrowmaster: which is useless unless I go and download someone's entire repo |
| 21:23.17 | End_ | Sintacks: I think tacos were more successful |
| 21:23.18 | Jamash | which is why git is useless |
| 21:23.35 | Esamynn|work | Dagmar: well... not in some cases... *cough* SourceSafe *cough* |
| 21:23.38 | Arrowmaster | git isnt ment to be used remotely like that |
| 21:23.42 | Jamash | YES |
| 21:23.45 | Jamash | EXACTLY |
| 21:23.59 | Arrowmaster | YES EXACTLY ITS A DVCS SO USE IT LIKE A DVCS |
| 21:24.00 | nevcairiel | Git is for working with the sources, not weird people snooping around in it from far away |
| 21:24.23 | Jamash | it's meant to be used by precisely and exactly one person, and his name is Linus Torvalds, and everyone else is irrelevant |
| 21:24.46 | Jamash | I completely understand why you would want to use git if your name is Linus Torvalds |
| 21:24.55 | Jamash | I don't understand why anyone else would ever go near the thing |
| 21:25.10 | nevcairiel | because all alternatives are crap? :P |
| 21:25.24 | Jamash | svn > git |
| 21:25.32 | nevcairiel | hahahahaha |
| 21:25.34 | durcyn | opinions are like assholes |
| 21:25.37 | durcyn | you should pour some bleach on yours. |
| 21:25.49 | Arrowmaster | lol |
| 21:25.58 | Jamash | I can use svn without getting a phd in version control theory |
| 21:26.16 | Jamash | and devoting my entire hard drive to repositories |
| 21:26.17 | nevcairiel | says something about you, for sure |
| 21:26.24 | Jamash | git does not support either use case |
| 21:26.50 | Jamash | how do I check out just today's version in git, pray tell? oh that's right it's impossible |
| 21:27.02 | nevcairiel | download a tarball |
| 21:27.03 | Jamash | how do I check out over a dodgy connection? can't |
| 21:27.16 | nevcairiel | like dodgy connection and svn works so well |
| 21:27.22 | nevcairiel | you know, because svn is fucking slow |
| 21:27.36 | Jamash | .tar.gz is a better VCS than git |
| 21:27.47 | Esamynn|work | lol |
| 21:27.49 | Jamash | slow is better than impossible |
| 21:27.57 | Esamynn|work | fixing Linus' quotes now are you :P |
| 21:28.00 | Jamash | am I? |
| 21:28.05 | Esamynn|work | more or less |
| 21:28.06 | End_ | I'm not a fan of git either, but I think you're going a little on the deep end there Jamash |
| 21:28.15 | nevcairiel | he is just a weirda |
| 21:28.18 | nevcairiel | weirdo |
| 21:28.19 | nevcairiel | dont mind him |
| 21:28.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Wa (~wa@50.45.216.44) |
| 21:28.49 | nevcairiel | in his mind, all software has to be written to serve his needs |
| 21:28.51 | Jamash | End_: I'm mostly serious |
| 21:28.59 | Jamash | nevcairiel: You're thinking of Linus |
| 21:29.11 | Esamynn|work | I consider DVCS to be an interesting concept, but to still be rather immature compared to other VCSs |
| 21:29.21 | Jamash | I got nothing against DVCS |
| 21:29.42 | nevcairiel | The whole concept of DVCS relys on the principle that you clone the repository onto your machine |
| 21:29.48 | nevcairiel | which apparently you hate :p |
| 21:29.48 | Jamash | git is to DVCS what C++ is to object-oriented programming |
| 21:30.16 | Esamynn|work | now THAT I would agree with |
| 21:30.23 | Esamynn|work | mostly |
| 21:30.25 | nevcairiel | the best thing ever? |
| 21:30.26 | nevcairiel | :D |
| 21:30.39 | Jamash | hideous perversions of the core concepts |
| 21:30.41 | Esamynn|work | ~lart nevcairiel |
| 21:30.41 | purl | burns nevcairiel to a crisp with a laser |
| 21:30.59 | nevcairiel | you seem to lack a general understanding of DVCS in any case |
| 21:31.58 | Jamash | I don't actually care about dvcs |
| 21:32.00 | Esamynn|work | there is no good reason why you MUST have a copy of the ENTIRE repo for each person using it... portions of the repo would be good enough as long as you had the ability to get the rest at any point |
| 21:32.03 | Jamash | I care about getting things done |
| 21:32.26 | Jamash | git is inherently inimical to getting things done |
| 21:32.30 | Arrowmaster | yeah if you had asked this question about Hg instead of Git you would be even more pissed right now because you wouldnt have been able to do what you ended up doing and instead be forced to download the entire repo |
| 21:32.48 | Jamash | Arrowmaster: I didn't end up doing anything |
| 21:32.54 | Jamash | I still don't know the answer |
| 21:33.02 | mckenziemc | 42 |
| 21:33.12 | Arrowmaster | oh i thought you said you regexed one of the remote files |
| 21:33.18 | Esamynn|work | the reality is, purity, for purity's sake is pointless and counterproductive |
| 21:33.21 | Jamash | two different questions |
| 21:33.38 | Jamash | WoW.tfil is on my hard drive already |
| 21:34.28 | Jamash | I have no idea how to find out what the status of https://github.com/znc/znc/commit/c98abf00a5401995f8b27836af1cc6453c9569be is in regards to seeing it in a release |
| 21:36.06 | Corrodias | "void PutIRCQuick(const CString& sLine); //!< Should be used for PONG only" |
| 21:36.18 | Arrowmaster | looks to me like its in the master branch |
| 21:36.20 | Corrodias | well then call it PutIRCQuickOnlyForPong |
| 21:36.26 | Corrodias | jeez, people |
| 21:36.27 | Jamash | how would you tell |
| 21:36.46 | Arrowmaster | im guessing because theres only two branches |
| 21:36.53 | Esamynn|work | ... |
| 21:36.57 | Dagmar | Mainly you'd read the API docs to understand the reason for the function you're calling |
| 21:36.59 | Jamash | behold the power of git |
| 21:37.08 | Dagmar | That could just be crazy talk |
| 21:37.12 | Esamynn|work | you understand what is wrong with that statement, right Arrowmaster ? |
| 21:37.17 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 21:37.27 | Corrodias | you definitely should, but that's not api documentation, and i doubt they wrote any |
| 21:37.32 | Dagmar | Everyone should be allowed to call whatever functions they want and declare the function to be "horrendously buggy" when it does what it was supposed to do |
| 21:37.35 | Arrowmaster | i would just find the answer for him but i dont have Git installed on this laptop |
| 21:37.45 | Jamash | it's like VCS, only without usability |
| 21:37.53 | nevcairiel | It would be trivial to figure this out if one were to start a git client on the repository, just from going by Githubs bad interface is one entirely different thing |
| 21:37.58 | nevcairiel | besides, it is in the master branch |
| 21:38.04 | Jamash | it was hard to write, so it should be hard to use |
| 21:38.11 | End_ | it seems that it shows a drop down if it isn't the master branch |
| 21:38.17 | Corrodias | everybody should be able to call a function and have it do what it says it'll do |
| 21:38.32 | Arrowmaster | Jamash: now calm down before you wake the dragon |
| 21:38.51 | Jamash | I can read nick change notices |
| 21:39.12 | Cairenn | :p |
| 21:39.24 | Esamynn|work | ~poke Cairenn |
| 21:39.24 | purl | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind Cairenn, pokes Cairenn repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 21:39.37 | Cairenn | ~whaleslap Esamynn |
| 21:39.37 | purl | ACTION beats Esamynn upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 21:39.48 | Esamynn|work | ~whaleparry Cairenn |
| 21:39.49 | purl | ACTION uses a slightly less-huge but eminently more agile killer whale named Edwardo to parry Cairenn's attacks. |
| 21:40.11 | nevcairiel | Jamash: your funny commit is in master, but the latest tag was made from another branch, so blame them for not having it in a release yet :P |
| 21:40.26 | Jamash | I just want flood protection |
| 21:40.36 | nevcairiel | so build the latest master |
| 21:40.47 | Jamash | can't, source code's in git |
| 21:40.58 | nevcairiel | github lets you download zips =P |
| 21:41.03 | Jamash | git has aids |
| 21:41.14 | nevcairiel | they call it a zipball! |
| 21:41.19 | Jamash | real reason = lazy |
| 21:41.47 | Jamash | short term solution is to disable the stickychan plugin |
| 21:43.04 | Jamash | I think the excess flood is caused by trying to join 5 channels at once |
| 21:43.19 | nevcairiel | joining shouldnt flood you |
| 21:43.42 | Arrowmaster | does it send a seperate join command for each channel or does it combine them into one command to the server? |
| 21:43.59 | Jamash | probably seperate |
| 21:44.17 | Arrowmaster | then that would be why |
| 21:44.24 | Jamash | it's a bad plugin |
| 21:44.28 | Jamash | let's test it |
| 21:44.37 | Jamash | yanks his ethernet cord |
| 21:47.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@5ada2644.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:47.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 21:50.14 | Adys | browsing chromium issues |
| 21:50.16 | Adys | "Computer reboot when playing Flash video content" |
| 21:50.17 | Adys | ... |
| 21:50.21 | Adys | sounds about right |
| 21:50.40 | Arrowmaster | yup |
| 21:54.04 | Amarande | heh |
| 21:54.13 | Amarande | that could almost be an "I'm afraid I can't do that Dave" feature |
| 21:55.00 | Amarande | yay another robe of the void pattern |
| 21:56.23 | Esamynn|work | haha |
| 21:57.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Erodros (4cb893b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.184.147.176) |
| 21:59.17 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: just start putting them on the AH for treefiddy |
| 22:00.23 | Dagmar | Adys: They need to fix their video drivers, or turn off hardware accelleration in the flash plugin |
| 22:01.11 | Dagmar | Chromes little dlls for that enable hardware accelleration by default |
| 22:01.46 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 22:02.54 | Jamash | it worked! |
| 22:02.55 | Jamash | sort of |
| 22:03.34 | Jamash | I mean, I had to reboot because windows wouldn't reconnect to the router |
| 22:03.39 | Jamash | but I didn't get a flood warning |
| 22:15.33 | cbreak | a web browser gives kernel level access to a web page? |
| 22:15.38 | cbreak | sounds kind of dumb. |
| 22:16.02 | nevcairiel | just because some user claims such a thing in a bug report does not make it true |
| 22:16.24 | Jamash | it does if the video driver has a bug in it :P |
| 22:16.25 | cbreak | it's written on the internet! |
| 22:16.29 | cbreak | what else but true can it be? |
| 22:16.37 | nevcairiel | however it is possible that the video driver just crashes when decoding video because of a bug |
| 22:16.42 | Jamash | exploit flash plugin, then exploit video driver |
| 22:17.02 | cbreak | ignore flash, go right to web gl |
| 22:17.16 | Jamash | flash is probably buggier |
| 22:17.31 | cbreak | flash has seen hundreds of bug fixes in the past few years |
| 22:17.37 | cbreak | webgl is still young |
| 22:17.39 | Jamash | and therefore hundreds of bugs |
| 22:19.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~torhal@c-71-207-224-241.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 22:24.27 | Vladinator | hi Torhal |
| 22:24.34 | Torhal | Yola. |
| 22:24.41 | Torhal | Been here all day, just happened to lose power. |
| 22:24.47 | Vladinator | It's nice to see a friendly face around here. |
| 22:25.08 | Torhal | Hehe |
| 22:25.46 | Vladinator | Going to bed soon but wanted to say hi to you and your awesome hair. :D |
| 22:26.00 | Torhal | lol |
| 22:26.09 | Erodros | ARG! STUIPD! I have been trying to figure out why GetPrimaryTalentTree isn't working right in MOP till I thought "Wait..we don't have talent trees in MOP anymore"...ugh |
| 22:26.54 | Jamash | hyuck hyuck hyuck |
| 22:26.55 | kd3 | http://www.wowpedia.org/Patch_5.0.4/API_changes |
| 22:26.57 | Torhal | That would definitely cause issues. |
| 22:27.19 | Jamash | yeah there's primary and secondary spec but no primary and secondary tree |
| 22:29.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@p5B04C3D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:29.50 | Vladinator | I wonder when they will implement the tic tac toe game, I wanna play it with my friends damn it! |
| 22:30.00 | Vladinator | Waiting since vanilla. |
| 22:30.32 | Esamynn|work | ~poke Vladinator |
| 22:30.32 | purl | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind Vladinator, pokes Vladinator repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 22:30.41 | Erodros | If I remember right, there was a chess game at one point |
| 22:31.07 | Vladinator | Yes I remember having the addon in TBC. |
| 22:31.25 | kd3 | emails away |
| 22:33.29 | Esamynn|work | kd3: I always knew you were a spammer |
| 22:34.34 | kd3 | it show up in the spam folder? bleh |
| 22:34.59 | Esamynn|work | I dunno, I don't even know what email you were sending :P |
| 22:36.11 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy1 (~Mike@68.36.135.0) |
| 22:36.52 | Vladinator | Do you remember long ago the stuff I talked about the knowledge base and the ability to manipulate what the game can read from the net by editing your hosts file and such? Well, we did sent an mail to blizz but no response has been done yet, and it still is probably trickable, lol. Well, can't blame me for at least trying to inform them. :P |
| 22:40.05 | Esamynn|work | does the in-game knowledge base pull from a webservice? |
| 22:41.06 | kd3 | oh, yay, cm9 is out stable |
| 22:41.12 | kd3 | wonders if his aria made the cut |
| 22:41.32 | Vladinator | yes it does |
| 22:41.36 | Erodros | This might of been talked about before, but I am curious why functions don't return tables or api functions accept tables as input? Don't get me wrong, doing a lua_pushnumber is easyer than lua_createtable() lua_pushnumber() lua_setfield() but it would of made this api much cleaner:P |
| 22:41.46 | Vladinator | Esamynn: yes it does* |
| 22:42.34 | Stanzilla | + self:RegisterEvent("BAG_UPDATE_DELAYED"); |
| 22:42.36 | Stanzilla | nice |
| 22:43.19 | kd3 | blah, nope. 7.2 |
| 22:43.23 | kd3 | sighs |
| 22:44.52 | Esamynn|work | Vladinator: well, I guess the same holds true for content in the launcher and in the notifications on the logon screen... not much they could do about that, except use HTTPS instead of HTTP |
| 22:45.21 | Vladinator | I know, but I did alert them about this flaw and they don't really mind, so we can make in-game wowhead addon for example :P |
| 22:45.31 | Vladinator | On the fly modifier+click stuff in game to look up ;) |
| 22:45.46 | Esamynn|work | oh, heh... didn't think about that |
| 22:45.47 | Esamynn|work | lol |
| 22:46.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~TC@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 22:46.11 | foxlit | meh, not thinking big enough |
| 22:46.18 | foxlit | in-game-key-loggers are where it's at. |
| 22:46.34 | Esamynn|work | still, requiring edits to the hosts file is a rather large barrier |
| 22:47.07 | foxlit | Esamynn|Away: people already install wowhead's client. |
| 22:47.19 | Esamynn|work | this is true |
| 22:47.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@173-8-135-209-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 22:47.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 22:47.50 | Vladinator | I made an addon back in tbc that did this but I gave up on it, but I did prove that it was possible. |
| 22:48.02 | Vladinator | It's mostly just server side. |
| 22:49.10 | Sintacks | keylogs #wowuidev |
| 22:49.15 | mckenziemc | keep in mind this is the kind of stuff that talking about can get you kicked from the channel |
| 22:49.22 | Vladinator | ah right, sorry. |
| 22:49.30 | Torhal | o.O |
| 22:49.42 | Vladinator | yes it's true, I made a big scene when I made a thread about this on wowi. |
| 22:49.45 | Torhal | chucks mckenziemc into a wood chipper. |
| 22:50.46 | Vladinator | I don't know how to say it, but I believe it's important to talk about the illegal stuff too, otherwise it's just one sided view if you can't talk about it even. It's important to see all the sides of all situation, bad, good, it's about perspective. |
| 22:51.10 | mckenziemc | i personally don't mind |
| 22:51.28 | Sintacks | penis |
| 22:51.34 | mckenziemc | Torhal: You have violated my Terms of Use. Prepare to die. |
| 22:51.44 | Esamynn|work | honestly, you're likely fine, until you actually start a conversation about real, hard details of how or making a plan to abuse the hole. etc. |
| 22:51.54 | Esamynn|work | ~lart mckenziemc |
| 22:51.54 | purl | drops a truckload of VAXen on mckenziemc |
| 22:52.25 | Vladinator | Yes, as long I don't plan to do anything bad with this information, it should be fine. I came to irc because the forums are one thing, here we can chat more freely, so I think :P |
| 22:52.43 | Vladinator | About these gray area stuff. |
| 22:53.03 | Esamynn|work | keep in mind, the logs are publically available on the web, don't say anything here you wouldn't on a forum |
| 22:54.12 | Vladinator | Yeah I know :) |
| 22:54.21 | Esamynn|work | where did you forward the details? hacks@blizzard.com? |
| 22:54.30 | Vladinator | Either WoWI or Wowhead did it for me. |
| 22:54.43 | Vladinator | I think it was Cairenn at wowi |
| 22:54.48 | Vladinator | Not sure, been like a year ago. |
| 22:54.50 | Esamynn|work | likely |
| 22:55.00 | Vladinator | Has a more direct comm channel to blizz than me. |
| 22:55.10 | Cairenn | which what huh? |
| 22:55.18 | Vladinator | The knowledge base stuff. |
| 22:55.27 | Vladinator | About editing hosts file and redirecting the game to talk to a custom http server. |
| 22:55.37 | Vladinator | Then display custom data in-game. |
| 22:55.46 | Cairenn | ah, yeah |
| 22:55.59 | Cairenn | I remember that, vaguely |
| 22:56.00 | Vladinator | Yeah, was just saying we never got a reply about that from them, hehe. |
| 22:56.05 | Cairenn | ah |
| 22:56.27 | nicoli_s | blizzard only gets back if they are upset :P |
| 22:56.34 | Esamynn|work | lol |
| 22:56.40 | Torhal | :D |
| 22:57.17 | nicoli_s | they contacted me about my sc2 map editor and had me like explain what it did |
| 22:57.30 | nicoli_s | cuz they thought it was a hack we were distributing or something |
| 22:57.33 | Vladinator | :D |
| 22:58.02 | Vladinator | those that contacted you, where they devs or random customer support/investigator guys that don't know anything about programming and such? |
| 22:58.24 | nicoli_s | well i got contacted via curse, so it was some pr person i beliebe |
| 22:58.53 | nicoli_s | i just emailed them what it did and told them i could give the source but they never got back |
| 22:59.26 | Vladinator | Reason I asked is because I had a weird experience with my host once like this, I had to explain what a programming script did to a guy that only knew he had to ask me about it, he had no clue about programming at all, like explaining how lua works to your mother. |
| 23:03.04 | nicoli_s | lol |
| 23:03.10 | nicoli_s | that sounds hard |
| 23:04.07 | Vladinator | Actually Blizzard are quick to notice suspicious activity, I once made a script on my host to login on the old armory with my account and extract guild bank info for my old guild page. |
| 23:04.49 | Vladinator | They notified my host and they asked me about my "scam/keylogger script" then I had to also explain it's not and like teaching your mom about university math, I had to ensure them it's legit and it's my own login that it uses. |
| 23:05.02 | Vladinator | Point was it took like 2-3 days before I was contacted. |
| 23:07.46 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 23:08.10 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@user-1121ctp.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 23:08.12 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 23:08.59 | kd3 | rah |
| 23:09.55 | Vladinator | Torhal what do you do on the computer, do you play any games or only program? |
| 23:12.32 | Erodros | Is there a list of spellid's that have changed? I am modifying combustion helper for mop, and it checks for two spell debuffs on a target. Pyroblast (id:11366) and Pyroblast! (id:92315) but mop is throwing errors that 92315 dosn't exist |
| 23:12.57 | Erodros | er that is I can comment out that line in code and it works fine |
| 23:13.32 | *** join/#wowuidev arton (~arton@tx-184-6-182-107.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 23:15.22 | Vladinator | yes, then the spellid is removed and they made a new spellid for the effect |
| 23:16.08 | Erodros | AH! never mind, it looks like when you get the instant proc, the debuff is 92315 but the normal debuff is 11366 if you cast it regular. They just changed it so it dosn't matter and uses 11366:P |
| 23:16.29 | Erodros | Thanks:) Also helps running beta and normal at the same time:P |
| 23:17.36 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Work (~quassel@99-50-80-110.lightspeed.lsanca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:26.45 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 23:29.51 | arton | Ohoooooh if you're happy and you know it, thank your meds! |
| 23:30.30 | mckenziemc | o.o |
| 23:30.43 | Erodros | Anyone know what the overhead is on calilng functions in wow in the update function? |
| 23:31.30 | kd3 | in OnUpdate? it runs every single frame. try to do as little as possible if you have to do anything |
| 23:32.06 | Vladinator | eww, I shortened category to just cat, and sub category to scat -then I stopped typing for a moment |
| 23:32.32 | Erodros | I mean I am updating the display if need be basicly, but I am wondering if I should have a big OnUpdate that updates the text one after another or seperate them into seperate functions for clarity |
| 23:32.59 | Erodros | Combustion helper just does one big OnUpdate and makes like 40 locals for all the UnitArea calls |
| 23:33.16 | Erodros | er Aura |
| 23:46.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~TC@99-50-80-110.lightspeed.lsanca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:46.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~TC@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 23:51.24 | *** join/#wowuidev arton (~arton@tx-184-6-182-107.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 23:52.36 | Vladinator | do you write UTF-8 or utf-8 when you use it in programs, like setting headers and such |
| 23:53.46 | Erodros | I have seen it more in Caps since its an acronym |
