| 00:00.33 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, i dunno, i use curse client to update, it's been a while since i've disabled tomtom and i keep forgetting to turn it back on, i figured since he was working on tomtomlite and stuff that tomtom full was kind of on the back burner at the moment |
| 00:00.45 | Mr_Rabies | curse client SHOULD be set to clear the folder first |
| 00:01.20 | durcyn | git log on my tomtom checkout indicates the library was upgraded on december 12. |
| 00:01.56 | Kraps | cog|work: so cide hates fishgivers? |
| 00:02.17 | cog|work | I hate fishgivers |
| 00:02.27 | cog|work | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1567934072 |
| 00:03.22 | durcyn | he probably copied the original macro from somewhere else originally as well |
| 00:03.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Trela (~Alexia@c-71-228-185-69.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 00:03.24 | Kraps | what about fishslappers? |
| 00:04.03 | Kraps | TC-Work: |
| 00:04.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh`` (~funk@82.111.116.139) |
| 00:05.55 | Cide | everyone hates fishgivers |
| 00:07.44 | durcyn | technical people consistently fail to grasp the idea that users don't care how things work |
| 00:07.48 | cog|work | except the fishgivers and the fisheaters |
| 00:07.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Trela_ (~Alexia@c-71-228-185-69.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 00:08.39 | durcyn | have you ever taken your car to a mechanic instead of getting trained to fix it yourself? then sit down already. |
| 00:09.13 | cog|work | that's not a good analogy... it's more like "here's this car i built, now make it do something different" |
| 00:09.20 | Cide | yeah |
| 00:09.42 | Cide | in your analogy you would expect car mechanic trainees to go "fix this for me so I can get on with my training" |
| 00:09.51 | cog|work | or in this case "here is this car i'm claiming to have built even though it's obvious i don't know the first thing about its construction, so i want you to do it for me" |
| 00:11.13 | Jamash | FINALLY geez winamp could you be harder to set up to play h264 |
| 00:11.36 | Cide | winamp is so 5 years ago |
| 00:11.39 | TMc51 | cog|work: But nobody can prove you didn't build it, so obviously you did, amirite? |
| 00:11.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Trela_ (~Alexia@c-71-228-185-69.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 00:11.56 | Jamash | I just want a player that supports transparency so I can watch day9's antics while I play wow |
| 00:12.25 | Cide | if you did build it why do you need to be fed instructions to continue building? |
| 00:12.42 | Wobin | in your analogy, you expect the car repair for free =P |
| 00:12.57 | TMc51 | Jamash, have you tried VLC, or MPC? I believe both of them support transparency quite well, and are quite easy to set up for it. |
| 00:13.09 | Jamash | I could not find a way to get vlc to go transparent |
| 00:14.08 | TMc51 | Have you tried with MPC? I had it working for a while with WoW at one point, but haven't tried again since reinstalling it. |
| 00:14.19 | Jamash | don't have mpc installed atm |
| 00:14.59 | *** join/#wowuidev kapipi (~kapipi@raichu.netlab.jp) |
| 00:15.15 | Jamash | and winamp is doing transparency for all windows but the video player -_- |
| 00:15.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@82.111.116.139) |
| 00:15.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 00:18.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Trela (~Alexia@c-71-228-185-69.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 00:22.58 | cog|work | Cide: i had to immortalize it: http://blog.cogwheel.info/2010/12/totally-random-made-up-term-for-day-4.html |
| 00:24.24 | cog|work | (btw: had some dns issues earlier, it might not be accessible) |
| 00:30.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:30.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@71-88-41-93.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 00:30.56 | Amarande | hmm. |
| 00:31.12 | Amarande | is there a perfect UI that can handle leveling, soloing, and instancing roles for all classes without needing extensive tweaks for each character? |
| 00:31.19 | kd3 | no |
| 00:31.46 | Amarande | for that matter, is there any real solution to the keybinding issue? |
| 00:32.18 | Kraps | well crap. Disciples III caused my pc to crash |
| 00:32.37 | Amarande | namely: the fact that many classes require far more keys than you can reasonably bind? |
| 00:32.57 | cbreak | Amarande: the default UI |
| 00:33.12 | Amarande | (Remember, if you're mouse moving like you OUGHT to, your right hand is on the mouse almost all of the time, and only about 5/8 or so of the keyboard is really accessible reasonably by the left hand alone in situations where time matters) |
| 00:33.26 | Kraps | i dont know if i need more power. better fans, a new video card, or all 3 |
| 00:33.43 | cbreak | mouse moving? hahaha... |
| 00:34.10 | Amarande | cbreak: are you a keyboard turner? no raid for you! |
| 00:34.22 | cbreak | keyboard turner? |
| 00:34.34 | cbreak | mice are for healers and looting |
| 00:35.42 | Amarande | And will security software EVER stop whining about Curse Client being a risk? |
| 00:36.07 | cbreak | can you find out which heuristic that triggers the warning? |
| 00:36.13 | Amarande | (Hell. I've seen some AV software claim that *WOW* is a risk.) |
| 00:36.21 | Kraps | helphelphelp |
| 00:36.32 | cbreak | wow is a risk because it tries to modify the application folder |
| 00:36.49 | cbreak | patching programs is something viruses do. |
| 00:36.54 | cbreak | and the patcher |
| 00:37.05 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: what security software is whinning about CC? |
| 00:37.15 | Amarande | cbreak: actually, Comodo at least claims, unless you twist its arm for an exception, that WoW is actually a "shellcode injector" |
| 00:37.34 | Amarande | (In fact, unless you SPECIFICALLY TELL IT that that particular thing is ok, it will even still crash it out as a security emergency even if it's otherwise marked as TRUSTED.) |
| 00:37.54 | Arrowmaster | so why are you still using Comodo? |
| 00:38.17 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: Windows 7 itself seems to have issue with it, you get a special security confirmation after the .NET framework thingy installs and actually have to confirm a "this application installed correctly" box too |
| 00:38.20 | Amarande | and Vista had the same whining |
| 00:38.26 | cbreak | a shellcode injector... I know what shellcode is, but what's an injector? |
| 00:38.44 | Amarande | Why am I still using Comodo? Because I don't care to spend 50$ on an AV right now, and AVG tries to strongarm you into accepting an adware toolbar now. |
| 00:38.56 | Jamash | MSE? |
| 00:38.59 | durcyn | MSSE is more than sufficient in most cases |
| 00:39.13 | Amarande | And unless they fixed it, Windows claims Avast is no longer an acceptable AV solution, as of Vista. |
| 00:39.37 | Arrowmaster | MSE works fine unless its my dads computer |
| 00:40.24 | Amarande | you know, I haven't tried MSE yet. |
| 00:40.37 | Arrowmaster | somehow he manages to always get infected with tha fakeAVs that nothing ever detects |
| 00:40.51 | Amarande | Arrow: aren't those usually rootkits? |
| 00:40.56 | Amarande | Rootkits tend to be hard to detect by design |
| 00:41.14 | Arrowmaster | i dont think they are rootkits |
| 00:41.23 | Amarande | Although sometimes I kind of wish I *had* a rootkit I could control on this machine. |
| 00:41.29 | Arrowmaster | can a rootkit work without admin rights? |
| 00:41.42 | Amarande | Such as when I get forced to reboot because a program on SYSTEM level gets stuck, and I can't seem to elevate myself high enough for TASKKILL to listen to me. |
| 00:42.01 | Amarande | since apparently MS thinks it is a good idea for the system to have access levels that not even admin users can ever have. |
| 00:42.26 | Amarande | I'm not sure why. The Unix paradigms never thought that important, a kill -9 from root is *never* ignored (unless the process is zombie, and zombie processes can't be killed because they're already dead :P) |
| 00:43.07 | cbreak | there are exceptions |
| 00:43.39 | Amarande | cbreak: yeah, I can't remember if you can kill init, in particular |
| 00:43.47 | cbreak | can think of at least three: bsd jail type of separation |
| 00:43.55 | cbreak | if you become root, you can still not escape |
| 00:44.24 | cbreak | a vm type of situation, even if you are root, the kernel will not allow you to even see sister processes |
| 00:44.33 | Amarande | yeah, but those aren't a normal PC situation |
| 00:44.39 | Amarande | Windows thinks that even administrators should be limited. |
| 00:44.42 | cbreak | (thinking of OS level virtualisation, not vmware style hardware virtualisation) |
| 00:44.55 | cbreak | and privilege degradion |
| 00:45.03 | Amarande | (FWIW, if it wasn't for gaming, I would get rid of Windows in a heartbeat. But I don't know if all my games can run on Linux with Wine, especially things like Dragon Age. (I know WoW can, though.)) |
| 00:45.15 | cbreak | not sure if linuxes can do that, but at least mac os allows processes to voluntarily reduce their privileges |
| 00:45.33 | cbreak | so even as root, if you give up those rights, you can never get them back |
| 00:45.39 | Amarande | cbreak: for instance, an issue I had with the aforementioned Comodo (which I'm reinstalling now) |
| 00:45.47 | cbreak | windows might do the same |
| 00:45.51 | Amarande | cbreak: root can su to any other user without a password, which I *think* gives up rights |
| 00:45.56 | cbreak | oh, and anti-virus crap is like a rootkit anyway |
| 00:46.09 | Amarande | an issue with Comodo was that once a scan got stuck. |
| 00:46.11 | kd3 | cbreak, sure, it's easy for processes to give up their privs |
| 00:46.11 | cbreak | that's impersonation, something else |
| 00:46.28 | Amarande | I could not exit the process (all I ever got was a repeated "would you like to stop the scan?" ad infinitum without it exiting when I said yes) |
| 00:46.33 | Amarande | and I could not taskkill it since it was SYSTEM |
| 00:46.44 | Amarande | and I could find no way no matter what I googled to figure out how to force myself to become SYSTEM. |
| 00:46.57 | durcyn | pskill should be able to get it |
| 00:47.01 | Arrowmaster | cbreak: ping is a suid program that gives up its rights almost immediately after starting |
| 00:47.21 | cbreak | it gives up it's user id as root |
| 00:47.29 | cbreak | what I mean with giving up permissions is much more fine grained |
| 00:47.34 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@pool-71-188-132-215.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:47.45 | cbreak | for example, there's a process that is responsible for indexing everything |
| 00:47.50 | Arrowmaster | oh you mean capabilities |
| 00:47.57 | Amarande | and yes, on Linux, root can give up rights, hence how you can for instance su freely as root (in fact, even to users that you cannot otherwise become as a shell at all) |
| 00:48.01 | cbreak | so it gives up all write rights that are not to it's own database |
| 00:48.07 | cbreak | it runs as root, so it can index everything |
| 00:48.13 | cbreak | but it can't screw up anything but the database |
| 00:48.20 | cbreak | it also gives up network rights and a few other things |
| 00:48.39 | Amarande | cbreak: also, things like BIND and such *SHOULD* give up rights, but I don't think they do. (It would have prevented a LOT of root shell holes, though.) |
| 00:48.42 | cbreak | the indexing service is still running as root |
| 00:48.50 | Jamash | amg vlc does do transparent video yay |
| 00:48.56 | Amarande | Daemons using privileged ports ... should only remain root long enough to listen on those ports and then give up all other root rights, right? |
| 00:49.00 | Jamash | what a waste of a couple hours |
| 00:49.10 | cbreak | Amarande: open the sockets, yes |
| 00:49.17 | durcyn | Amarande: BIND runs under its own uid by default these days. |
| 00:49.20 | cbreak | but those don't really give up rights |
| 00:49.24 | Amarande | BIND never did, far as I know, and that's why it was a root hell |
| 00:49.24 | cbreak | they give up the whole user |
| 00:49.27 | Amarande | wu-ftpd comes to mind, too |
| 00:49.37 | durcyn | named 28976 0.0 1.5 183508 31820 ? Ssl Dec15 2:44 /usr/sbin/named -u named -t /chroot/dns |
| 00:49.37 | Amarande | (did WU EVER come up with a version of ftpd that didn't have a root shell hole?) |
| 00:49.43 | industrial | I need 8 Inferno Ink. I won't be making it but I will be herbing for it. Howmuch do I need to herb? |
| 00:50.12 | cbreak | industrial: http://www.wowhead.com/item=61981 |
| 00:50.26 | industrial | that doesnt tell me how milling works. |
| 00:50.40 | Arrowmaster | http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/12/17/203204/Openwall-Linux-30-mdash-No-SUIDs-Anti-Log-Spoofing |
| 00:51.15 | durcyn | industrial: ink yields from milling are variable. |
| 00:51.30 | durcyn | er, pigment, rather |
| 00:51.39 | Arrowmaster | some of the comments cover why the capabilities feature might not be better than SUID, particular example being ping |
| 00:52.06 | cbreak | Arrowmaster: the tech in os x is much cooler |
| 00:52.07 | Arrowmaster | and that the code in ping is dead simple as is for dropping root privs |
| 00:52.28 | cbreak | there-s a user end tool for it, sandbox-exec |
| 00:52.30 | industrial | I have no gold but I can herb for it. I dont wanna pay the one doing inscription and instead supply the full mats myself. I need to know What to bring and I don't :( |
| 00:52.50 | cbreak | you can write restriction files that define very detailed what you want to allow and what not, and then run other processes with it |
| 00:52.56 | durcyn | huh, how is SUID ever a better option than properly implemented RBAC |
| 00:52.59 | industrial | I have 100 cinderbloom 80 whiptail in the bank right now |
| 00:53.13 | cbreak | since restrictions are inherited, you can restrict any process you launch that way |
| 00:53.18 | durcyn | not that linux-caps is properly implemented |
| 00:54.04 | Arrowmaster | durcyn: http://idle.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1915256&cid=34592874 |
| 00:54.16 | cbreak | you could make web-browsers not be able to write to the file system outside temp and their own profile/settings folder. You could make a movie player not contact any IP outside your lan. |
| 00:54.56 | Amarande | durcyn: RBAC requires a different paradigm, doesn't it? |
| 00:55.19 | durcyn | Amarande: think selinux. it's fine when it's done correctly, it's just a pain in the ass to set up initially |
| 00:55.37 | Amarande | durcyn: it also risks making your entire system be unusable without a full OS reinstall if something goes wrong. |
| 00:55.51 | Amarande | the standard Linux model is much more resilient, and can be recovered from almost any root screwup. |
| 00:55.53 | durcyn | hardly. |
| 00:56.20 | durcyn | go on pretending it's difficult to break into a system with an unencrypted filesystem |
| 00:56.36 | Amarande | remember, one of the things about encrypted filesystem models that I find distasteful |
| 00:56.37 | durcyn | reinstall my ass |
| 00:56.53 | Amarande | is that it's a security paradigm that requires something of a 'scorched earth' mentality |
| 00:57.06 | Amarande | you must be willing to risk the loss of your data altogether under certain circumstances in order to protect it at that level |
| 00:57.21 | Arrowmaster | its not even difficult to break into a system with an encrypted filesystem if its not setup to require manual passphrase input |
| 00:57.32 | Amarande | and unless you're dealing with financial data or military secrets, you *probably* don't need that level of security |
| 00:58.08 | Amarande | (although given badly coded websites' penchant for getting your damned credit card number stored in Firefox's autocomplete ... *SIGH*) |
| 00:58.45 | cbreak | Amarande: how's the data loss probability higher than in normal situations? |
| 00:59.21 | cbreak | the impact of faulty blocks is slightly higher |
| 00:59.25 | durcyn | i like how you conflate your badly configured browser with some vague notion of web server "security" |
| 00:59.28 | Amarande | cbreak: encrypted filesystem security tends to imply that if certain subsystems get damaged, you may never be able to access the files on said FS again |
| 00:59.30 | cbreak | but it should not cascade |
| 00:59.43 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: umm no |
| 00:59.51 | cbreak | that's the case with unencrypted hard disks as well |
| 00:59.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Devlol (~Devlol@152-86.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 01:00.02 | cbreak | if important parts of the file system get damaged, you're in trouble |
| 01:00.20 | cbreak | luckily, there are backups :) |
| 01:00.22 | Amarande | cbreak: for instance, if keys or the system handling keys has issues? |
| 01:00.33 | Arrowmaster | that should never be an issue |
| 01:00.35 | cbreak | issues? call a shrink. |
| 01:00.56 | Amarande | Arrow: on the ideal system. remember that Linux machines tend to be far from the ideal of rock solid stability, though |
| 01:01.06 | Amarande | especially if you run Debian on a newish system and/or game on it, for instance |
| 01:01.10 | Arrowmaster | if you dont backup your private encryption keys its your own god damn fault |
| 01:01.18 | Amarande | (as then you will find that Stable is basically NEVER new enough, so you HAVE to run testing at the least ...) |
| 01:01.33 | Arrowmaster | i am running debian testing right now |
| 01:01.36 | Arrowmaster | its perfectly fine |
| 01:01.45 | cbreak | I have used encrypted home directory on Mac OS X since it was released a few years ago |
| 01:01.49 | cbreak | no major problems so far |
| 01:02.07 | Arrowmaster | cbreak: did you backup the private encryption keys somewhere else? |
| 01:02.22 | cbreak | yeah... including all the rest of the data |
| 01:02.25 | Amarande | the other thing is that you cannot both have security and any *semblance* of convenience, can you? |
| 01:02.35 | Arrowmaster | yes you can |
| 01:02.45 | cbreak | encrypted home directories on OS X are stored in a single file container |
| 01:02.49 | cbreak | I have backups of that |
| 01:02.57 | Amarande | if you want a passphrase that's actually secure, it's going to have to be both longish and fairly random, which means you have to keep reading it off a printed piece of paper unless you have the memory of a blindfold chessplayer |
| 01:03.03 | cbreak | it's a symetric key algorithm, so there are no private keys |
| 01:03.10 | cbreak | (outside those in my memory) |
| 01:03.25 | Amarande | if it's short or not random enough (like anything most people might be able to easily remember), it's probably easily guessed or dictionaried, too. |
| 01:03.44 | cbreak | you'd be surprised how easy a 12 letter random character password can be remembered when you type it 50 times in a row |
| 01:03.50 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 01:03.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 01:03.52 | Arrowmaster | anything can be easily bruteforced if you have direct access to it |
| 01:03.54 | Amarande | cbreak: heh, yeah, that's true |
| 01:04.08 | Amarande | if anything, I seem to find it easier to remember random passwords than ones that are actually human readable :) |
| 01:05.07 | cbreak | anyway, take a look at truecrypt |
| 01:05.14 | cbreak | it does full volume encryption |
| 01:05.26 | Sintacks | Is there an easy way to find out what created a frame |
| 01:05.33 | cbreak | if the header gets damaged, the whole volume is gone. so what do they do? They offer you an easy way to make a backup of the header |
| 01:05.59 | cbreak | a normal filesystem can just as easily be damaged (probably... if you hit the right block), but no easy backups |
| 01:06.13 | Amarande | cbreak: "probably, if you hit the right block" is key, there |
| 01:06.40 | Amarande | encrypted filesystems by definition require measures that result in points of far more catastrophic failure than unencrypted ones. |
| 01:06.50 | Amarande | your header gets damaged? bye bye data |
| 01:06.55 | cbreak | no |
| 01:06.57 | cbreak | backups :) |
| 01:07.04 | cbreak | see above |
| 01:07.15 | Amarande | unencrypted FS, your header gets damaged? you *might* lose all your data, but more likely just a file or folder somewhere. |
| 01:07.27 | cbreak | the only major difference is that a single bit error corrupts a whole encryption block |
| 01:07.35 | Amarande | cbreak: exactly. |
| 01:07.42 | cbreak | but that's a tiny difference |
| 01:07.44 | Amarande | unencrypted systems require more than that to cause that level of damage. |
| 01:08.07 | cbreak | not really |
| 01:08.12 | cbreak | due to the way modern hard disks are built |
| 01:08.36 | cbreak | bit errors are no longer a problem due to hard disk error correction, but when that fails, it reports a read error back |
| 01:08.40 | cbreak | instead of wrong data |
| 01:08.43 | Amarande | (also, if you're backing up to an unencrypted drive doesn't that spoil the purpose?) |
| 01:08.57 | *** part/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 01:09.07 | cbreak | (there's error correcting code that allows you to correct some errors and detect but not correct harder errors) |
| 01:09.20 | cbreak | so you lose a whole block of a hard disk on an unencrypted system too |
| 01:09.29 | cbreak | hard disk blocks are 4kb these days |
| 01:09.43 | cbreak | encryption blocks are 512 bytes (in aes) I think |
| 01:10.03 | cbreak | Amarande: no, backing up the header of a truecrytp volume does not require encryption |
| 01:10.14 | cbreak | it's really just the first few bytes of a volume |
| 01:10.18 | Arrowmaster | some new drives are 4k |
| 01:10.28 | Arrowmaster | old drives are 512byte sectors |
| 01:10.37 | cbreak | yeah, right. |
| 01:10.56 | Adys | do you have to be 85 to use the mage port to tol barad? |
| 01:10.57 | cbreak | and flash drives are 1mb or so? :/ |
| 01:11.40 | cbreak | ah well, failure mode of flash memory is totally different anyway |
| 01:16.43 | Amarande | anyway, time to reboot |
| 01:16.54 | cbreak | uptime? |
| 01:20.28 | Arrowmaster | 20:20:17 up 48 days, 2:06, 6 users, load average: 0.16, 0.16, 0.16 |
| 01:21.01 | Shirik | ok google officially scares me |
| 01:21.49 | Shirik | I typed ãããã§ããï¼ into google translate and it says "Did you mean å
æ°ã§ããï¼" |
| 01:21.58 | Shirik | in addition to translating it |
| 01:22.15 | Adys | hehe |
| 01:22.29 | Adys | ~google++ |
| 01:22.41 | Shirik | ~karma googl |
| 01:22.41 | purl | googl has neutral karma |
| 01:22.43 | Shirik | ~karma google |
| 01:22.43 | purl | google has karma of 3 |
| 01:22.43 | Arrowmaster | whats the difference? |
| 01:22.50 | Shirik | just the character set |
| 01:22.59 | Arrowmaster | thats what i figured |
| 01:23.00 | Shirik | I was just surprised that it cared at all |
| 01:23.18 | Arrowmaster | kana to kanji? |
| 01:23.28 | Shirik | it is correct in thinking that genki is generally written in kanji |
| 01:23.30 | Shirik | yes |
| 01:24.24 | Shirik | ok I give up |
| 01:24.32 | Shirik | I tried to convince the game to let me queue for LFG as a tank |
| 01:24.42 | Shirik | but it seems no matter what I do it says "no gtfo" |
| 01:25.44 | DWSR | Shirik: Tank gear's not good enough? |
| 01:25.50 | DWSR | Also, nevcairiel or Antiarc around? |
| 01:25.52 | Shirik | no |
| 01:25.56 | Shirik | I'm a priest |
| 01:26.02 | DWSR | oh |
| 01:26.04 | DWSR | Well.. |
| 01:26.08 | DWSR | sounds like a personal problem. |
| 01:26.30 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~roboe@50A2E6C0.flatrate.dk) |
| 01:27.07 | Shirik | It's very odd |
| 01:27.17 | Shirik | The way that frame is set up |
| 01:27.33 | Shirik | For a while I even got it convinced that I could be a tank but then if I clicked the checkbox it would just remain unchecked |
| 01:27.57 | Shirik | Then I tried messing with the APIs directly and the response seems to be one of ignoring me (so I guess the server is doing its own checks) |
| 01:28.55 | Thunder_Child | Kraps! whats up? |
| 01:30.18 | bleeter | probably old news but http://www.mcphee.com/shop/products/Bacon-Air-Freshener.html |
| 01:33.21 | Thunder_Child | not sure that actually 'freshens' the air.... |
| 01:33.29 | Thunder_Child | ...is that even a word? |
| 01:34.20 | DWSR | freshens? Yes. |
| 01:36.01 | Shirik | freshens is a great place |
| 01:50.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@71-88-41-93.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 01:50.54 | Amarande | blinks at the Blizzard UI |
| 01:50.58 | Amarande | Let's just say, fail? |
| 01:51.04 | Amarande | Or a bit of fail, at least |
| 01:51.24 | Amarande | At 1920x1200, the chat frame by default lands such that the lower right hand corner of the frame is under the dragon thing around the action bar |
| 01:52.50 | Dagmar | OMG THE WORLD ENDS |
| 01:53.13 | Amarande | Dagmar: you'd think that they'd have checked for stuff like that when they designed it :) |
| 01:53.38 | Dagmar | Dude, that's pretty trivial there. |
| 01:53.54 | Dagmar | Probably doesn't happen at all with UI scale working a bit. |
| 01:53.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Archarodim (~Archarodi@lev92-4-88-164-134-95.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 01:53.58 | Dagmar | ...or in 4:3 |
| 01:54.25 | Amarande | also apparently at 1920x1200 the default UI components are tiny |
| 01:54.34 | Amarande | I'm still not sure whether I want to change that too much though |
| 01:54.37 | Dagmar | CTRL+ALT+DEL pretty well summarizes Archaeology today |
| 01:54.50 | Dagmar | Amarande: UI SCale adjustment. Slap teh sliders |
| 01:54.54 | Amarande | since one of the things that dissatisfied me about my previous UI the most was that it took up too much room |
| 01:55.12 | Sintacks | how do you do a single line comment in lua |
| 01:55.26 | cbreak | -- |
| 01:56.18 | Amarande | I'm also surprised that Ensidia can have any members that aren't ninety-niners, with the recruitment criteria they're listing. LOL |
| 01:56.39 | Amarande | well, 99ers or homemakers, anyway |
| 01:57.00 | cbreak | 99ers? People with 1% downtime? |
| 01:57.13 | Amarande | cbreak: in the US, 99ers is a term for people who have been collecting unemployment for the maximum 99 weeks allowed |
| 01:57.34 | Amarande | I'm saying, that in order to meet their requirements, you pretty much either *have* to be a homemaker or on unemployment :P |
| 01:57.45 | Dagmar | They're the exact opposite of "1%" bikers. |
| 01:58.03 | Amarande | They want you to be 18+ and available to raid, literally, 24/7. |
| 01:58.14 | Amarande | Which kind of excludes, well, anyone who actually still has a job in today's economy. LOL |
| 01:58.33 | Dagmar | So... definitely the opposite of the hardcore biker crowd then. |
| 01:58.43 | Dagmar | You don't ask them a lot of questions about how they pay their bills. |
| 01:59.26 | Dagmar | Ensidia members... trust fund. |
| 02:00.02 | Arrowmaster | wasnt there some rumor about one of the members being a saudi prince |
| 02:00.14 | Dagmar | Probably just a rumor. |
| 02:00.21 | Dagmar | It doesn't take THAT much money to sit on your ass and play WoW all day |
| 02:00.22 | Amarande | heh. "In the future you may get the opportunity to attend events and perform at live raids." |
| 02:00.35 | Amarande | yeah, because anyone who's actually available to raid 24/7 is actually able to afford to go to events and perform at live raids |
| 02:00.44 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: well the rumor was that he was supporting the rest of them |
| 02:00.48 | Shirik | Anyone with knowledge of Lua internals around? (batrick?) Do strings ever get GCed? |
| 02:00.53 | cbreak | wth is a live raid? |
| 02:01.04 | Amarande | cbreak: I'm guessing it's something like a lan party where you raid |
| 02:01.26 | cbreak | hmm. I thought it's a raid that happens in real time |
| 02:01.37 | Arrowmaster | they had a live raid at blizzcon |
| 02:01.39 | cbreak | (as opposed to one that's played back) |
| 02:01.45 | cbreak | but your explanation makes more sense |
| 02:02.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Sapu (~Sapu94@adsl-75-45-101-35.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:02.48 | Amarande | too bad I have a job, too |
| 02:02.55 | Amarande | since Ensidia apparently actually is hiring DPS DKs, heh |
| 02:03.17 | Amarande | 'course I'm probably on the entirely wrong realm and faction, too, not to mention possibly continent. |
| 02:03.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@p4FC4D83B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:03.22 | Amarande | I can't remember where they're based these days. |
| 02:03.29 | Shirik | I would love to know how many DKs apply to Ensidia that are totally worthless |
| 02:03.35 | Shirik | I wish they would post stats on that or something |
| 02:04.29 | Amarande | also, I'm good (10/12 HMs, 5-time KS in ICC10), but I'm not that hardcore |
| 02:04.47 | Dagmar | I'll settle for being good looking. |
| 02:05.19 | Amarande | Dagmar: time to roll another female blood elf? :) |
| 02:05.34 | batrick | Shirik: of course strings get GC'd? |
| 02:05.51 | Shirik | I don't know why I thought they didn't |
| 02:06.15 | Dagmar | Amarande: So my toon can look like a trailer park whore? No thanks. |
| 02:06.19 | Shirik | anyway, can you take a look at this |
| 02:06.57 | Shirik | http://wowi.pastey.net/144170 |
| 02:07.00 | Shirik | Does this look reasonable? |
| 02:07.13 | Shirik | objective: Find the number of times I can do a = a..a |
| 02:07.19 | Shirik | before we get "string length overflow" |
| 02:07.45 | batrick | that never acutlaly changes temp though |
| 02:07.55 | batrick | your cat function should be changing temp |
| 02:07.57 | Shirik | whoops |
| 02:08.00 | Shirik | That's why I had you look at it! |
| 02:08.05 | batrick | :P |
| 02:08.16 | batrick | also tabs are evil |
| 02:08.28 | Shirik | agree |
| 02:11.11 | Amarande | heh, before I looked at the language and noted it was a hunter guide, I saw this thing called "Cataclysm Jager Guide" and thought it was about drinking while WoWing |
| 02:12.29 | Dagmar | If it was I'd be demanding the URL |
| 02:12.49 | Dagmar | Usually I'm a sake-per-boss guy, but I've been thinking about branching out into anisette-spec. |
| 02:12.59 | Amarande | Dagmar: first point: never, ever, ever ever ever agree to "every time you wipe, take a shot" while doing Malygos. |
| 02:14.10 | cbreak | did you listen to the last State-of-the-game podcast? |
| 02:14.22 | Dagmar | Dude, I used t odo Naxx with a sake on each boss, ironman-style |
| 02:14.34 | Dagmar | ...and I kite zombie chow like that. W00t! |
| 02:14.35 | cbreak | it's about starcraft 2... but the last was somehow different. |
| 02:14.58 | Amarande | sooo. |
| 02:15.22 | Amarande | would those 122 key keyboards with a billion relabelable, reprogrammable function keys that are targeted at the POS market work properly with WoW? |
| 02:15.24 | Shirik | table, number, nil, userdata, string, boolean |
| 02:15.29 | Shirik | what datatypes am I missing? |
| 02:15.31 | Amarande | You'd never have to worry about needing more hotkeys again ... |
| 02:15.38 | Dagmar | I wish. |
| 02:15.42 | Shirik | function |
| 02:15.53 | Dagmar | You are still freaking stuck with the standard keys as far as the interface is concerned. |
| 02:15.57 | cbreak | Shirik: thread. |
| 02:16.07 | Shirik | ew |
| 02:16.12 | Shirik | I don't even know if I should |
| 02:16.15 | Dagmar | DirectX firmly disbelieves in the existance of F13-F24, although those would be goddamn perfect to bind G-keys as |
| 02:16.22 | Shirik | Do you think there are any functions in WoW which take threads? |
| 02:16.24 | Amarande | Dagmar: ah, so all you'd really be able to do is program them so you could equivalate, say, "alt-shift-foo" as a single key? |
| 02:16.30 | Dagmar | Yes. |
| 02:16.35 | cbreak | Shirik: http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#lua_type :) |
| 02:16.43 | Shirik | that's cheating |
| 02:16.44 | Dagmar | ...which means that after awhile you get used to hitting ctrl-s to turn sound back on, in the middle of a fight |
| 02:17.10 | Shirik | heh |
| 02:17.11 | Shirik | yes I do |
| 02:17.17 | Shirik | I'm already used to that |
| 02:18.02 | Amarande | Dagmar: actually from what I've read while seeking out such keyboards |
| 02:18.15 | Amarande | I'm not sure F13-F24 are 'officially' even considered different from ... I think it's Shifted F1-F12 |
| 02:18.49 | Amarande | which means they never were separate keys to begin with. :| |
| 02:18.53 | cbreak | They are on apple's keyboard. |
| 02:18.55 | Amarande | unless that's OS dependent, though |
| 02:18.59 | Dagmar | Amarande: They were. |
| 02:19.02 | Amarande | I mean, there's keyboards with PHYSICAL F13-F24 |
| 02:19.04 | cbreak | only have up to f19 though |
| 02:19.14 | Amarande | but I'm not sure if the OS ever really treated them as different from some sort of modified F1-F12 |
| 02:19.15 | Dagmar | Those keys were acutal keys with their own scancode |
| 02:19.16 | Jerub | up to F36 |
| 02:19.25 | Amarande | HOWEVER |
| 02:19.28 | Amarande | it does occur to me |
| 02:19.29 | Dagmar | Amarande: The big deal is their scan code |
| 02:19.32 | Amarande | that those keyborads could be useful |
| 02:19.40 | Dagmar | they had their own scan code which required no meta |
| 02:19.42 | Amarande | because you could program the extra function keys on the LEFT side of the keyboard |
| 02:19.52 | Amarande | to return the same stuff as keys on the RIGHT side of the keyboard |
| 02:19.56 | Dagmar | I use v1 G15, man |
| 02:20.08 | Amarande | which is really one of the big issues with a keyset for raiding that requires fluidity in keypressing |
| 02:20.14 | Dagmar | They're useful. You just have to be mindful of keystroke collisions |
| 02:20.32 | Amarande | most of the keys too far to the right are not very useful because they're inconvenient to use the left hand on, and the right hand often needs to be on the mouse at a moment's notice |
| 02:20.42 | Dagmar | What do you mean left/right side of the keyboard? |
| 02:20.50 | Amarande | Dagmar: well, I'm right-handed |
| 02:20.53 | cbreak | I use the number pad for my right hand |
| 02:20.54 | Amarande | so my mouse is to the right of the keyboard |
| 02:20.58 | Dagmar | The general place F13-F24 wound up was directly above F1-12 |
| 02:21.00 | Jerub | http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:item.detail?GroupID=38&Code=55Y9003¤t-category-id=E9ADAEB6787146E29B78400A33E7FE8A |
| 02:21.03 | Jerub | that's my keyboard |
| 02:21.10 | Amarande | I also mouse turn and move, and a lot of WoW fights require a lot of mobility |
| 02:21.24 | Jerub | i can mouse turn with my fingers on the homerow now :P |
| 02:21.27 | Amarande | so my right hand has to be on the mouse a lot. this means my left hand has to handle most of the keypresses, at least ones that may need to be pressed quickly |
| 02:21.47 | Dagmar | I'm *considering* ordering a G510 tonight |
| 02:21.52 | Amarande | so the further right a key is, the less useful it is for raiding |
| 02:22.27 | Amarande | Dagmar: that means F13-F17 in particular are well placed for raiding |
| 02:22.32 | Amarande | whereas, say, F9-F12 are badly placed. |
| 02:22.40 | Jerub | tanking i don't use my physical mouse anymore, i do targetting with the nipple |
| 02:22.41 | Dagmar | Considering that you can both run and steer with the mouse, when I'm tanking I just abandon WASD for the most part |
| 02:23.08 | Amarande | Why does DirectX fail to recognize F13-F24, btw? |
| 02:23.09 | Dagmar | Right hand on mouse, left hand on numpad |
| 02:23.14 | Amarande | Did MS just not think of it? |
| 02:23.15 | cbreak | I find keyboard movement superior to mouse movement in almost all situations |
| 02:23.26 | cbreak | it just offers more freedom and more precise control |
| 02:23.44 | cbreak | especially with things like strafing |
| 02:23.46 | Jerub | cbreak: i mostly keyboard move in all but a select few situations. |
| 02:23.47 | Dagmar | Amarande: Best guess... because very few desktops had a keyboard that supported those outside of ancient IBM environments, who Microsoft was competing with, and Microsoft didn't invent them |
| 02:24.02 | Jerub | Dagmar: s/ IBM//g |
| 02:24.05 | cbreak | I only mouse move when I am not in a fight |
| 02:24.11 | cbreak | like when I do herbalism |
| 02:24.12 | Jerub | Dagmar: lots of sun and hp kit had extra F keys. |
| 02:24.21 | cbreak | or travel, or archeology |
| 02:24.30 | Shirik | Cide |
| 02:24.32 | Dagmar | It took some doing but I got the logitech G15 to acutally emit F13-F24 when I hit the G-keys and DirectX just refused to pass them to WoW. |
| 02:24.35 | Dagmar | I was pissed about that |
| 02:24.35 | Shirik | How do you survive in Python |
| 02:24.36 | Jerub | http://www.sunshack.org/data/sunpix/type6_kbd+mouse.jpg |
| 02:24.36 | Amarande | now keyboards come with extra keys again, but they're all web browsing/media oriented crap |
| 02:24.42 | Shirik | without better functional support |
| 02:24.46 | Shirik | Lua is so awesome |
| 02:24.50 | Jerub | Shirik: what's missing? |
| 02:25.08 | Dagmar | Amarande: What we need is for extra scan codes to be recognized as generic MMO keys |
| 02:25.13 | Dagmar | That will end the problem |
| 02:25.18 | Jerub | Shirik: i mean, apart from assignment to enclosing scopes from closures. |
| 02:25.32 | Jerub | wait, that image isn't loading properly |
| 02:25.35 | Amarande | Dagmar: I'd probably program them to CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+something combinations |
| 02:25.45 | Amarande | since those combinations are more or less unusable otherwise |
| 02:25.50 | Shirik | That would be necessary for what I just did |
| 02:25.53 | Dagmar | It woulnd't be necessary to do that anymore |
| 02:25.57 | Amarande | also, did Windows 7 ever fix the issue with Ctrl+Shift+0? |
| 02:25.57 | Shirik | tell me, in python, how would you do something like this: |
| 02:26.10 | Amarande | I remember there being a strange issue with that keyset on Vista |
| 02:26.13 | Dagmar | There's an issue with ctrl-shift-0? |
| 02:26.14 | cbreak | window's issue with alt-f4 is worse :) |
| 02:26.21 | Shirik | Create a function foo(n) which generates an iterator that counts from 0 to 100 in n elements in a list |
| 02:26.30 | Amarande | Dagmar: on Vista, it was apparently intercepted *at the OS level* and *could not be used for any application purpose* |
| 02:26.47 | Amarande | it took forever to google what for, and apparently it's for some obscure internationalization language support thing |
| 02:26.51 | Jerub | Shirik: okay, that's a confusing requirement. |
| 02:26.52 | Dagmar | Hmm... It's Microsoft. |
| 02:26.59 | Dagmar | Once they've claimed something like that, it's gone forever |
| 02:27.00 | Shirik | i.e., foo(3) would return an iterator that goes [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 1], [0, 0, 2], ..., [0, 0, 100], [0, 1, 0], [0, 1, 1] |
| 02:27.06 | Dagmar | You know, like NOT REQUIRING LOCALTIME CLOCKS |
| 02:27.07 | Jerub | oooh. right. |
| 02:27.10 | Shirik | all the way to [100, 100, 100] |
| 02:27.19 | Dagmar | nevermind that the DOS-compatibility excuse is long, long, two OS releases past now |
| 02:27.28 | Jerub | Shirik: that's an interesting one. |
| 02:27.30 | Amarande | I didn't even know about it until I couldn't keybind it in Bartender, and then I found out it's not just an issue with WoW |
| 02:27.46 | cbreak | wasn't windows ME the last dos based windows? |
| 02:27.50 | Shirik | If it makes you feel better |
| 02:27.55 | Amarande | Apparently, even some of MS's *own* business applications have had problems with it, I believe it was once a keyboard shortcut in Excel, and a lot of Office users ran into issues |
| 02:27.57 | Shirik | I wrote it in Lisp before I tried to write it in Lua |
| 02:28.14 | Shirik | p.s. it's scary that I did that and still think that was a good idea |
| 02:28.27 | Jerub | Shirik: i mean, for a fixed n, it's trivial. |
| 02:28.32 | Shirik | right |
| 02:28.39 | Shirik | it's when n is not fixed it becomes difficult |
| 02:28.40 | Jerub | [(x, y, z) for x in range(100) for y in range(100) for z in range(100)] |
| 02:28.46 | Amarande | cbreak: I'm guessing that alt-f4 can never again be mapped as anything but "exit application" by any program, and is directly wired to the kernel? |
| 02:28.59 | Shirik | also |
| 02:29.01 | Jerub | 101 if you actually want 0 and 100 in the tuples. |
| 02:29.03 | cbreak | no idea. Not a windows user here |
| 02:29.10 | Shirik | "loadstring" mechanics (eval?) aren't fair |
| 02:29.11 | Jerub | so you could do it recursively. |
| 02:29.15 | Amarande | I considered keybinding that in clique, and pondered whether it would work or whether it would dump me to desktop before it even bound |
| 02:29.23 | Jerub | crap. i have a terminal printing htat. |
| 02:29.28 | cbreak | but I do use alt-f1 to alt-f5 for targeting pets of party members or something similar |
| 02:29.40 | cbreak | other guild members found that amusing :) |
| 02:29.42 | Amarande | cbreak: does your party watch you DC every time the fourth party member is a hunter? :) |
| 02:29.52 | cbreak | no, as I said, not a windows user |
| 02:30.26 | cbreak | it feels like a convenient combination, no idea if windows can relinquish that |
| 02:30.50 | cbreak | here, there are only mostly finger-bendingly complicated shortcuts non-bindable |
| 02:31.36 | cbreak | like apple-alt-escape, or apple-alt-eject |
| 02:31.58 | Jerub | Shirik: solution here: |
| 02:32.08 | Amarande | yeah, I'm really not sure what Microsoft intends with the increasing ossification of features into OS-bound things |
| 02:32.09 | Jerub | http://paste2.org/p/1155012 |
| 02:32.12 | Amarande | what about gamers? |
| 02:32.19 | cbreak | (one thing that I found most painful when playing on windows was always switching to explorer when accidentally pressing that damn windows key...) |
| 02:32.28 | Amarande | or does MS eventually intend to drop gaming entirely and force people to use the Xbox series to game with? |
| 02:32.40 | Amarande | (but then why do they keep updating DirectX instead of letting it die to force people to use the 360 now?) |
| 02:33.08 | Amarande | cbreak: heh. I miss my old IBM Model M that didn't have a suicide key :) |
| 02:33.16 | Shirik | sorry got disconnected Jerub |
| 02:33.29 | Jerub | Shirik: http://paste2.org/p/1155013 is iterative. |
| 02:33.39 | Jerub | http://paste2.org/p/1155012 is recursive. |
| 02:33.56 | Jerub | that should probably be a for loop not a whlie loop too |
| 02:34.12 | Shirik | wtf is (x,) |
| 02:34.20 | Jerub | Shirik: tuple with 1 element. |
| 02:34.26 | Shirik | what's with the , |
| 02:34.38 | Jerub | Shirik: common mistake when teaching python is to say that |
| 02:34.49 | Jerub | (foo, bar) is a tuple and [foo, bar] is a list |
| 02:35.02 | Jerub | the brackets are for clarity, they're not tuple syntax |
| 02:35.07 | Jerub | the ',' makes it a tuple. |
| 02:35.28 | Shirik | really |
| 02:35.30 | Jerub | yep. |
| 02:35.32 | cbreak | so [a,b] is a tuple? |
| 02:35.35 | Shirik | so I could just do x, ? |
| 02:35.36 | Jerub | cbreak: no, that's a list. |
| 02:35.38 | Jerub | Shirik: yep. |
| 02:35.45 | Adys | Shirik: depends, but most of the time yes |
| 02:35.45 | cbreak | but the , makes it a tuple? :/ |
| 02:35.50 | Adys | "return foo, " returns a tuple |
| 02:35.58 | Thunder_Child | steam needs an option to keep downloading while playing steam games. |
| 02:36.13 | Shirik | I assume if I wanted a list with a tuple entry I would be required to do [(foo,bar)] |
| 02:36.15 | Amarande | T_C: ehh. steam is pretty good as it is |
| 02:36.19 | Shirik | or for that matter [(foo,)] |
| 02:36.22 | Amarande | it's pretty robust, and is also good at remembering that you own games |
| 02:36.23 | Jerub | Shirik: yep. exactly. |
| 02:36.29 | Jerub | Shirik: oh, but here's the wart. |
| 02:36.32 | Adys | Shirik: but in some cases, the comma alone wont make the tuple, so you really need the parentheses |
| 02:36.34 | Amarande | you want to know a bad downloadable content manager, take a look at Dragon Age's |
| 02:36.37 | Adys | so it's better to use them all the time |
| 02:36.43 | Jerub | there's one time and one time only that brackets are aboslutely necesery for making a tuple. |
| 02:36.47 | Jerub | and i use it in that code. |
| 02:36.51 | Jerub | the 0-tuple is () |
| 02:37.52 | cbreak | still hates python |
| 02:37.55 | Jerub | (everyone who knows about this knows this is terrible and we wish it were better) |
| 02:38.23 | Shirik | I don't understand why they didn't make the syntax require () |
| 02:38.54 | Adys | Shirik: value expansion |
| 02:39.06 | cbreak | how do function calls look like? |
| 02:39.09 | cbreak | f(a,b,c)? |
| 02:39.09 | Adys | Shirik: foo, bar = (1, 2) is the same as foo, bar = 1, 2 |
| 02:39.13 | Jerub | cbreak: yep. |
| 02:39.24 | cbreak | so you pass a tuple with three things? |
| 02:39.35 | Jerub | cbreak: f((a, b, c)) |
| 02:39.41 | Shirik | wait what? |
| 02:39.51 | Adys | Shirik: also you'd technically have to do return (foo, bar, baz) if you wanted to return multiple args if you made the syntax require parens |
| 02:39.58 | cbreak | seems , is overloaded many times |
| 02:40.03 | Jerub | Adys: that's not right. |
| 02:40.05 | Shirik | dies |
| 02:40.22 | Adys | Jerub: for the sake of consistency, it is |
| 02:40.26 | Jerub | cbreak: yep. that's why everyone puts () around tuples in most contexts. |
| 02:40.36 | Adys | you could make it avoid that requirement in that specific case but.. |
| 02:40.47 | Jerub | Adys: meh. it's not requried in the grammar, they're semantically equivilent |
| 02:41.25 | Jerub | cbreak: this is exactly why people are taught (a, b, c) is a tuple. because if they always treat them like that, they don't have any related problems |
| 02:41.28 | cbreak | does not want to remember the C++ comma operator |
| 02:41.39 | Shirik | oh come on |
| 02:41.44 | Shirik | that operator is so useful |
| 02:41.46 | Jerub | cbreak: i was just illustrating that ',' is actually the reason it's a tuple so that (x,) made sense |
| 02:41.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Harmagedon (4b200f36@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.32.15.54) |
| 02:42.08 | Shirik | for (int i = Initialize(), 0; ...) |
| 02:42.11 | cbreak | of all the languages I have seen, Lua has the least syntax suck |
| 02:42.25 | Jerub | it's true. |
| 02:42.30 | Shirik | actually I have used the comma operator in some actually useful places |
| 02:42.30 | Jerub | lua has very little syntax suck. |
| 02:42.32 | Shirik | that is not one of them |
| 02:42.45 | Adys | lua has very little syntax |
| 02:42.47 | Jerub | python is a very old language now, and we've just been discussing a hard to remove wart in it :) |
| 02:42.50 | cbreak | well, maybe on par with assembler |
| 02:42.55 | Jerub | Adys: all the best languages have very little syntax |
| 02:43.00 | Adys | ya Jerub |
| 02:43.03 | Shirik | I like the comma operator in X86 syntax |
| 02:43.06 | Shirik | it is very useful |
| 02:43.11 | cbreak | Lua is old too |
| 02:43.15 | Adys | also py3k removes a lot of syntax in python |
| 02:43.22 | Adys | like tardticks |
| 02:43.27 | cbreak | does it remove the whitespace stuff? |
| 02:43.28 | Harmagedon | so anyone know of a video explaining how to properly do the alpha layer for the .tga pictures for KGpanel? |
| 02:43.50 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 02:43.53 | cbreak | video?! |
| 02:43.57 | Arrowmaster | go search youtube |
| 02:44.14 | foreplay | anyone know a good resource to read on creating a button thats useable in wow |
| 02:44.35 | cbreak | is reading competency that low these days? :/ and is competency even a word? questions over questions... |
| 02:44.41 | Jerub | cbreak: man, the whitespace thing is such a psycological thing. |
| 02:44.44 | Adys | foreplay: wowprogramming/docs/widgets/button |
| 02:44.56 | foreplay | ty adys |
| 02:45.16 | Jerub | cbreak: it's got practically nothing to do with the language, it's just 'different' and thus villified and feared. |
| 02:46.21 | cbreak | Jerub: it's not only different, it's also very inconvenient, irritating and potential cause for errors |
| 02:47.01 | cbreak | I've seen lots of conflicts with code that has various combinations of lf, crlf, spaces, tabs, and combinations thereof |
| 02:47.12 | cbreak | ... it's ugly, but at least the code still works... :) |
| 02:47.31 | Jerub | cbreak: yep. that's a problem. as a community we've standardised on 4 space indents, and most VCS tools can help you enforce it. |
| 02:47.40 | Jerub | and it's a common mistake for first time programmers to get it wrong. |
| 02:47.53 | Adys | cbreak: and it shouldnt |
| 02:47.57 | Jerub | they only get it wrong once. |
| 02:48.07 | Adys | "Wah, wah, my ugly code doesn't work" is the wrong state of mind |
| 02:48.08 | cbreak | I bet it's a problem for fourth time programmers too... |
| 02:48.14 | Jerub | cbreak: nah. |
| 02:48.18 | Adys | it really isnt |
| 02:48.20 | cbreak | it probably bites everyone in the ass when they start with python |
| 02:48.23 | mckenziemc | shirik, i'm working on catching up with the chatlog but i you still need an online resource for billard's files, try one of the last few links: |
| 02:48.23 | Adys | it teaches you to be rigorous |
| 02:48.25 | mckenziemc | ~framexml |
| 02:48.25 | purl | Download FrameXML code/art from http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=21466 ; or view it online at http://github.com/tekkub/wow-ui-source , http://wowprogramming.com/utils/xmlbrowser or http://wow.go-hero.net/framexml |
| 02:48.39 | Jerub | well, there are people who write programs who aren't programmers, and they're the same sort of people who don't indent their code at all even in algol derivative languages. |
| 02:48.43 | Jerub | i call those people 'idiots' and ignore. |
| 02:49.35 | Adys | [02:46:43] <cbreak> it probably bites everyone in the ass when they start with python |
| 02:49.40 | Adys | most people, yeah |
| 02:49.53 | Adys | and then they get it and live with it, it teaches them to be rigorous |
| 02:49.55 | Adys | as i said |
| 02:50.03 | Adys | otherwise, they leave python and thats fine too. |
| 02:50.08 | cbreak | or they just switch to a better language :) |
| 02:50.29 | Jerub | tbh, i dealt with the whitespace issue in C and php years before i learned python. it happens in any project when you have two different editors in use with different defaults. |
| 02:51.04 | Jerub | sure, it didn't break code, but it caused problems in version control all the same. |
| 02:51.26 | Jerub | (and someone committing incorrect indentation isn't the sort of thing you should tolerate, ever, anyway) |
| 02:52.56 | cbreak | I like to indent my code so it's easier to read. That includes sometimes splitting function calls on multiple lines, splitting loop heads, ... |
| 02:52.59 | cbreak | of course, that's C++ |
| 02:53.20 | cbreak | so not sure if Python would allow such situations to arise |
| 02:53.28 | Adys | [02:49:49] <Jerub> (and someone committing incorrect indentation isn't the sort of thing you should tolerate, ever, anyway) |
| 02:53.28 | Jerub | cbreak: in python if you have stuff inside of brackets you can split it accross lines willy-nilly. |
| 02:53.30 | Adys | QFT |
| 02:53.37 | Adys | Reading some pieces of wine's code makes me weep |
| 02:53.50 | Jerub | so function calls and loop heads are basically automatically allowed to do that. |
| 02:53.56 | Adys | so much tab&space mixing i want to shoot a bird, then roast it, then stuff it in the brain of a poney |
| 02:54.52 | Jerub | the INDENT and DEDENT syntax tokens are only consumed before/after statements. |
| 02:55.03 | Adys | also python's indentation is not that rigorous; it just asks you to be consistent |
| 02:55.15 | Jerub | it's while_loop := 'while' expr ':' INDENT stmt_list+ DEDENT |
| 02:55.27 | Shirik | DEDENT? |
| 02:55.34 | Jerub | Shirik: the reverse of indent. |
| 02:55.41 | Shirik | Would you like to tell me the BNF for a DEDENT token? |
| 02:55.50 | Shirik | in fact |
| 02:55.52 | Jerub | Shirik: sure, how else would you write the grammar? |
| 02:56.03 | Shirik | would you like to tell me how you can call a DEDENT a token by any sense of the word? |
| 02:56.04 | Jerub | you'd have to have some weird lexer/parser hybrid if you didn't do that. |
| 02:56.24 | Shirik | By definition a "dedent" is the lack of a token |
| 02:56.31 | Jerub | Shirik: it's much the same as a } |
| 02:56.38 | Shirik | you are missing my point |
| 02:56.52 | Jerub | no, you're thinking inside a box. |
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| 02:57.02 | Shirik | I'm thinking within the bounds of typical computer science |
| 02:57.07 | Shirik | And how lexers work |
| 02:57.18 | Jerub | "why have this solution, i can't understand it, you should remove it because i don't understand this thing that works perfectly" |
| 02:57.21 | Shirik | By definition, a "dedent" is not a token but rather a lack thereof |
| 02:57.35 | Shirik | it follows that a dedent cannot be represented in BNF |
| 02:58.06 | Shirik | hence |
| 02:58.10 | Shirik | (21:55:28) (@Shirik) Would you like to tell me the BNF for a DEDENT token? |
| 02:58.15 | Jerub | it follows that the code that works perfectly with a well defined BNF cannot be represented? |
| 02:58.22 | Jerub | http://docs.python.org/release/2.5.2/ref/grammar.txt |
| 02:58.37 | Shirik | I see they simply chose to not define DEDENT |
| 02:58.39 | Shirik | nice |
| 02:58.41 | Jerub | check 'suite ::=' |
| 02:58.52 | Jerub | um, that's the grammar, not the lexer |
| 02:59.00 | Shirik | yes |
| 02:59.01 | Dagmar | It's represented by whitespace embedded between two pieces of whitespace |
| 02:59.04 | Shirik | but the grammar leaves DEDENT undefined |
| 02:59.10 | Shirik | it is obviously not a literal |
| 02:59.16 | Kraps | http://kotaku.com/5715849/diablo-iii-seeks-hardcore-monster-encounters |
| 02:59.19 | Jerub | Shirik: um, it doesn't define NEWLINE either... |
| 02:59.23 | Shirik | I noticed |
| 02:59.25 | Shirik | they leave a lot out |
| 02:59.36 | Jerub | ... because that's the lexer's responsibilty. |
| 02:59.46 | Shirik | I understand whose responsibility it is |
| 02:59.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:59.48 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 02:59.48 | Jerub | ... you know. from computer science ... the lexer .... |
| 02:59.49 | Shirik | that's not my point |
| 02:59.54 | Shirik | my point is that this is ill defined |
| 03:01.03 | Shirik | Then again |
| 03:01.05 | Shirik | BNF is a crappy notation anyway |
| 03:01.12 | Shirik | but it's all we have |
| 03:01.17 | Shirik | this isn't really BNF anyway |
| 03:01.30 | Shirik | neither is just about every example of "BNF" I've ever been shown |
| 03:01.42 | Jerub | http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html if you want more details. |
| 03:01.43 | Iriel | Isn't there EBNF too |
| 03:02.30 | Jerub | i take 'bnf' and 'ebnf' to really mean a machine readable grammar definition, and usually have a gander at it to see if it's LL or LALR ... |
| 03:02.34 | Shirik | I just have a severe problem with calling something that is literally the lack of something a token |
| 03:03.14 | Jerub | Shirik: btw. the arabs called. they invented 0. |
| 03:03.34 | Jerub | (actually dedent isn't nothing, it's a negative, if you think about it that way) |
| 03:03.44 | Jerub | it's the lack of a dedent that's nothing! |
| 03:04.01 | Jerub | you can have multiple dedents in a row in your token stream too |
| 03:04.37 | Shirik | It's like inception |
| 03:04.45 | Shirik | if you have too many syntax levels you need a kick to get out |
| 03:05.00 | Jerub | haven't seen it. |
| 03:05.09 | Shirik | WHAT |
| 03:05.13 | Amarande | Jerub: lies, the Egyptians invented 0, apparently |
| 03:05.20 | Amarande | about 3,500 years before people thought it was invented |
| 03:05.29 | Shirik | how do you "invent" 0? |
| 03:05.31 | Jerub | Amarande: sure, but no one cares about haskell really. |
| 03:05.45 | Shirik | wait |
| 03:05.50 | Shirik | haskell is something other than a programming language? |
| 03:06.04 | Adys | isnt it a name? |
| 03:07.06 | Jerub | ... i was making a reference to haskell being another language with indent/dedent implemented in its grammar. |
| 03:07.19 | Jerub | ... being the egyptians to my arabs... |
| 03:07.31 | Jerub | sigh. clearly too high brow for this crowd. |
| 03:07.33 | Shirik | I don't know haskell beyond it being functional |
| 03:07.50 | Shirik | All the theorem provers I've ever used use common lisp |
| 03:09.47 | Cide | Shirik, what was your lua solution to 0, 0, 0, to 100, 100, 100_ |
| 03:09.47 | Cide | ? |
| 03:09.55 | Shirik | that wasn't the actual problem |
| 03:09.59 | Shirik | but I can show it to you in a second |
| 03:10.35 | Shirik | Lua makes iterators so easy btw |
| 03:11.46 | Shirik | lua> for x in coroutine.wrap(function() coroutine.yield(1), coroutine.yield(3), coroutine.yield("lol") end) print(x) end |
| 03:11.46 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: unexpected symbol near ',' |
| 03:11.57 | Shirik | lua> for x in coroutine.wrap(function() coroutine.yield(1), coroutine.yield(3), coroutine.yield("lol") end) do print(x) end |
| 03:11.58 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: unexpected symbol near ',' |
| 03:12.02 | Shirik | oops |
| 03:12.06 | Shirik | lua> for x in coroutine.wrap(function() coroutine.yield(1); coroutine.yield(3); coroutine.yield("lol") end) do print(x) end |
| 03:12.06 | lua_bot | Shirik: 1, 3, lol |
| 03:12.18 | Cide | how about |
| 03:12.32 | Cide | for x in product(range(10), repeat=3): print x |
| 03:12.46 | Cide | (from itertools import product) |
| 03:13.07 | Shirik | that's not an iterator definition |
| 03:13.23 | Cide | def iter(): yield 1; yield 3; yield "lol" |
| 03:13.30 | Shirik | what |
| 03:13.35 | Shirik | you can do that? |
| 03:13.38 | Cide | yes |
| 03:13.43 | Jerub | hah, of course |
| 03:13.44 | Jerub | itertools.product(*(range(100),)*n) |
| 03:13.44 | Shirik | ok well you're lucky |
| 03:13.51 | Shirik | but OTHER LANGUAGES |
| 03:14.12 | Cide | pythowned |
| 03:14.18 | Jerub | oh right. i didn't see the repeat=3 |
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| 03:15.27 | *** join/#wowuidev ReAn (~rean@S0106000acd1a2d6b.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 03:16.22 | ReAn | so blizz has put the kaibosh on "cast what's ready" macros right? |
| 03:17.00 | Cide | stop being a lazy fuck right? |
| 03:17.13 | Amarande | ReAn: old? |
| 03:17.23 | Amarande | didn't secure frames pretty much do away with that way back when? |
| 03:17.33 | Cide | no |
| 03:17.40 | Cide | mostly but not completely |
| 03:18.02 | Amarande | and unless they changed something *today*, I'm not sure they have, since I'm pretty sure my iceblock macro wouldn't work then |
| 03:18.04 | ReAn | no no |
| 03:18.06 | ReAn | i mean in macros |
| 03:18.25 | ReAn | like the old /castrandom macros |
| 03:18.30 | Kraps | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1568013960?page=15#294 |
| 03:18.33 | Amarande | since the whole reason it can "cancel if it's active" is because it will fall through to cancelaura on the second click *because* Ice Block is no longer ready after the first click |
| 03:21.29 | Iriel | They did change castrandom to disable castrandom spamming to 'find' the next available skill, but that was some time ago |
| 03:21.32 | Shirik | someone needs to tell me why the hell /castrandom exists at all |
| 03:21.50 | Iriel | Shirik: Pets/Mounts |
| 03:22.00 | Shirik | Which can be done with CallCompanion() like I do already |
| 03:22.11 | Iriel | Which didn't exist when /castrandom was created |
| 03:22.16 | Shirik | ok fair enough |
| 03:22.39 | Shirik | that being said I'm not sure there's still a reason for /castrandom to exist anymore (in which case perhaps the correcct "fix" would be to remove it) |
| 03:23.03 | Arrowmaster | for random polymorph |
| 03:23.03 | Shirik | Out of curiosity though what was the fix? |
| 03:23.06 | Iriel | I cant' think of any reason to disagree |
| 03:23.08 | Arrowmaster | thats the only reason it exists |
| 03:23.09 | Iriel | For castrandom? |
| 03:23.17 | Iriel | It doesn't change it's "random" if it fails to cast |
| 03:23.19 | Shirik | yeah |
| 03:23.22 | Shirik | ah |
| 03:23.25 | Shirik | smart change :) |
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| 03:23.32 | Iriel | Yeah, I thought they did that nicely |
| 03:23.33 | Arrowmaster | fix was to keep trying a spell until it succeeds |
| 03:23.44 | Iriel | Same way castsequence works essentially |
| 03:24.17 | Shirik | I do have to say Arrowmaster's comment about polymorph does kinda give a good use case for it to still be around |
| 03:24.32 | Arrowmaster | thats the only reason it exists afaik |
| 03:24.58 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: except a macro with "/cast ice block" and then "/cancelaura ice block" DOES work as you might expect (it does, in fact, iceblock you on first activation and cancel it on the second) |
| 03:25.09 | Arrowmaster | since i dont think you could /cast items when it was added like you can now |
| 03:25.24 | Amarande | or did they nerf that now, too, thus meaning that classes with bubbles can no longer afford to use non-Blizzard UI? |
| 03:25.37 | Shirik | I don't really think that can be nerfed, nor do I see it to be a problem |
| 03:25.39 | Amarande | or at the least, must devote an action button/hotkey solely to canceling the bubble as well as one for casting it? |
| 03:26.01 | Shirik | The reason it works is because /cancelaura doesn't see the ice block because it hasn't happened yet |
| 03:26.05 | Shirik | no matter how fast your connection is, it's slower than your CPU |
| 03:26.44 | Arrowmaster | does dragging the iceblock spell from the spellbook have different effects in the default ui than addon? |
| 03:27.00 | Amarande | Shirik: does the corresponding macro for pally bubble work the same or will it pop off right away? |
| 03:27.10 | Shirik | I don't see how it could pop off right away |
| 03:27.30 | Amarande | Arrow: It's not *casting* bubbles that's the issue. |
| 03:27.32 | Arrowmaster | yeah it cant since you dont have the aura yet |
| 03:27.35 | Iriel | Shirik: Regardless of CPU *OR* network speed, the state of the game world doesn't change while the UI thread is executing |
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| 03:27.48 | Iriel | (not asynchronously anyway) |
| 03:27.50 | Shirik | Iriel: Right, but my point was even if you made that possible, it still wouldn't happen |
| 03:28.11 | Amarande | It's the fact that since canceling buffs is now secure, you need to find some way of conveniently canceling it within the secure framework. |
| 03:28.16 | Iriel | Yeah but then people think putting busy waits in will help them |
| 03:28.41 | Amarande | If you use things like Pitbull and EBB, you can no longer cancel buffs during combat (or in Pitbull's case *at all*) via right clicking (and buff addons tend to cancel the default Blizzard buff display which allows it). |
| 03:28.57 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: i thought those spells were toggles? if you tried to cast it again while it was active it would remove the aura |
| 03:28.59 | Amarande | And generally speaking situations where you're going to *use* a bubble, you often *may* need to cancel it before duration. |
| 03:29.21 | Amarande | Arrow: no, you need a macro for that. If you click a second time you'll just get "spell is not ready yet" since bubbles all have minutes-long CDs. |
| 03:29.28 | Jerub | i have an annoyance on my bear |
| 03:29.38 | Jerub | i have two spells that are almost identical "aoe things around me" |
| 03:29.44 | Amarande | Especially given some of the situations where bubbles were useful |
| 03:29.54 | Amarande | (In certain cases, it saved a wipe on Festergut when using pally tanks, in particular.) |
| 03:29.54 | Jerub | so that's 3 and shift-3. i should look into this "cast whatever's available" stuff |
| 03:29.55 | zid | 0.1 second bubbles are the best kind |
| 03:30.09 | zid | do it on anything that stacks debuffs on the tank |
| 03:30.14 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: not sure about bubbles but i thought iceblock worked that way, cast once to activate, cast again to deactivate |
| 03:30.19 | Shirik | Note to self: When you aren't getting any errors in your addon and you can't figure out why something isn't running |
| 03:30.23 | Shirik | Make sure you saved the file first |
| 03:30.39 | Amarande | Arrow: Iceblock *is* a bubble, pretty much |
| 03:30.45 | Iriel | Shirik: 8-) |
| 03:30.49 | Iriel | Shirik: same goes with java code |
| 03:31.03 | Iriel | Or if you're using maven across modules, "mvn install" on the dependency |
| 03:31.05 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: but you cant do anything while blocked |
| 03:31.16 | Amarande | It's more urgent with pallies though, since if you don't have a quick cancel as tank you're going to wipe your raid due to the fact that the mob will ignore you |
| 03:31.36 | Arrowmaster | why are pallies tanks even using bubble? |
| 03:31.48 | zid | to drop stacks of debuffs |
| 03:31.56 | Shirik | To kill priests |
| 03:32.10 | Arrowmaster | i think Shirik has the correct answer |
| 03:32.27 | Shirik | the more your priest healer dies, the more likely you are to get him to drop and get a healer that has some mana |
| 03:32.32 | Shirik | That being said, what's with all the priest hate lately |
| 03:32.40 | zid | I love holy priests |
| 03:32.47 | zid | disc priests can suck mah balls, though |
| 03:32.51 | Shirik | Things have gotten to the point where people on my battlegroup will kick priest healers for the mere reason that they are a priest |
| 03:33.02 | Shirik | I have not gotten kicked for this yet, but I have heard of it happening |
| 03:34.44 | Jerub | i got kicked from a lost-city group last night for being a bad healer :( |
| 03:34.59 | Wobin | =( |
| 03:35.00 | Jerub | first of all because i let people sit on half health instead of spam healing them |
| 03:35.01 | Shirik | :( |
| 03:35.05 | zid | Jerub: is it because you're a bad healer? |
| 03:35.07 | Jerub | and i was like, "welcome to cata, i'm saving my mana" |
| 03:35.11 | Wobin | healing is pretty terrible so far |
| 03:35.26 | Shirik | Unfortunately Jerub was doing exactly what he should have been doing, from what he's said |
| 03:35.32 | Shirik | The problem is there are so many non-healers that think they know how to heal |
| 03:35.35 | |Jelly| | my favorite are the tanks with like 120khp in heroics. wtf |
| 03:35.37 | Jerub | and then after no deaths until the tank pulled 12 adds, the tank left. |
| 03:35.44 | Shirik | |Jelly|: I had an 85 tank with 80k hp |
| 03:35.50 | |Jelly| | roflmao |
| 03:35.53 | Jerub | so we did the penultimate boss, and everyone was taking so much damage i was hitting oom. |
| 03:35.57 | Jerub | so they kicked m.e |
| 03:36.05 | Wobin | ffs |
| 03:36.05 | zid | |Jelly|: 120k is fine |
| 03:36.10 | Shirik | 120k is low |
| 03:36.10 | Wobin | stop standing in shit on that boss |
| 03:36.12 | Wobin | it's not hard |
| 03:36.14 | zid | It's low, but fine |
| 03:36.16 | |Jelly| | in a heroic? that's low |
| 03:36.18 | zid | I only have like 144k |
| 03:36.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 03:36.36 | zid | and i'm full pre-raid bis in 1 item upgrade |
| 03:36.36 | Shirik | 120k is too low for a heroic |
| 03:36.42 | Shirik | I almost have 120k |
| 03:36.47 | Jerub | i should start wearing my kingslayer title. i don't because it's pretentious |
| 03:36.56 | Amarande | I'm trying to remember now. Do you get a deserter debuff if you're kicked? |
| 03:37.00 | Shirik | I wear my "Hand of A'dal" title still |
| 03:37.05 | Shirik | Amarande: No |
| 03:37.07 | Amarande | ah, good |
| 03:37.09 | Jerub | but when i see 'of the nightfall' or whatever on a lippy tank, i think "you're wearing that because it's your best raiding title" |
| 03:37.11 | Shirik | I also found out you don't get a deserter debuff if you're a ghost |
| 03:37.12 | zid | I use Ambassdor because I like it :) |
| 03:37.14 | Shirik | So that's how I leave groups now |
| 03:37.23 | |Jelly| | I caught shit the other day because of my Kingslayer title. Made me wonder when it became hard to get |
| 03:37.28 | Amarande | Shirik: they'll probably nerf that soon enough |
| 03:37.29 | Jerub | zid: i was wearing ambassador, now i wear 'associate professor' |
| 03:37.36 | Jerub | (nearly at assistant professor) |
| 03:37.43 | Wobin | can you still get the kingslayer title? |
| 03:37.47 | Amarande | Jerub: Of the Nightfall is possibly harder than KS. |
| 03:37.48 | Jerub | Wobin: yep |
| 03:37.53 | Shirik | Can't get Hand of A'dal! |
| 03:37.56 | Amarande | Wobin: Yes, and ICC really *isn't* that much easier at 85 than at 80. |
| 03:37.57 | Shirik | That's why I wear it D |
| 03:37.57 | Wobin | boo |
| 03:37.59 | Shirik | :D |
| 03:37.59 | Jerub | Amarande: of the nightfall requires knowing how to burn a boss |
| 03:38.04 | Shirik | No |
| 03:38.05 | Jerub | Amarande: and it takes 15 minutes |
| 03:38.06 | zid | actually, 2 items and 1 item I refuse to get |
| 03:38.07 | Wobin | Amarande: haha, infest |
| 03:38.08 | Shirik | You want to hear what's hard? |
| 03:38.11 | Shirik | Fucking XT on heroic |
| 03:38.12 | zid | <-- liar |
| 03:38.14 | Wobin | hahaha infest =P |
| 03:38.15 | Amarande | Wobin: Actually, Infest IS the biggest problem. |
| 03:38.22 | Wobin | yeah, exactly |
| 03:38.24 | Shirik | XT does percentage based damage |
| 03:38.25 | zid | I always died to infest in LK pugs |
| 03:38.26 | Arrowmaster | which is nightfall? |
| 03:38.27 | Amarande | *because of the Cata paradigm* |
| 03:38.29 | Shirik | Which totally doesn't scale into Cata |
| 03:38.30 | Amarande | Arrow: Sarth+3 |
| 03:38.31 | Shirik | not cool |
| 03:38.31 | Jerub | infest? i thought defile was the biggest problem. |
| 03:38.37 | Amarande | Jerub: no, actually it's infest now |
| 03:38.39 | Arrowmaster | thats what i thought |
| 03:38.39 | Jerub | at 85 gear levels it can tick and you won't die. |
| 03:38.40 | Amarande | see, here's the thing |
| 03:38.45 | Wobin | Jerub: no it's really infest |
| 03:38.46 | Amarande | Defile is easy. YOU GET THE HELL OUT, and you're okay. |
| 03:38.48 | Amarande | Infest? |
| 03:38.51 | Amarande | Well, here's the issue. |
| 03:38.52 | Wobin | cause you have to keep everyone above 90% |
| 03:39.01 | Shirik | Amarande: If the answer is "get the hell out" it's already too late |
| 03:39.02 | Amarande | If you top off people, you're going to OOM in no time with healer mana management as it is |
| 03:39.04 | Arrowmaster | was sarth3 still considered hard at the end of wrath? |
| 03:39.07 | Jerub | oh right |
| 03:39.09 | Jerub | Arrowmaster: no |
| 03:39.14 | Arrowmaster | didnt think so |
| 03:39.20 | Jerub | Arrowmaster: when it was the weekly, you couldn't get a group that didn't do +3D |
| 03:39.21 | Wobin | Even bubblespamming will get you OOM |
| 03:39.24 | zid | I like dying to plague |
| 03:39.31 | Amarande | if you *don't* top off people, then you all die when Infest comes, because you'll never be able to top everyone off in time and it's accelerating damage like that god-cursed plague on heroic PP |
| 03:39.31 | zid | I always die to plague if I die on LK |
| 03:39.45 | Kraps | well i'm depressed |
| 03:39.49 | Jerub | interesting |
| 03:39.55 | zid | anub is impossible now apparently |
| 03:39.55 | Jerub | well. i'm glad i have KS already. |
| 03:40.01 | Amarande | zid: bug? |
| 03:40.12 | mckenziemc | Amarande: I -think- your ice block macro still works because /cancelaura is allowed to run whether or not /cast works -- it runs every time you press the macro, but because of latency, you won't have the iceblock aura available to be cancelled, first time you press it |
| 03:40.21 | Arrowmaster | at least on my achievement for it says something like janurary 12th 2009 on it (it was 2009 right? or was it 2008?) |
| 03:40.25 | zid | Amarande: It outscaled us :) |
| 03:40.25 | mckenziemc | woops that was answered couple lines lower |
| 03:40.37 | Shirik | mckenziemc: That's correct |
| 03:40.45 | Shirik | on both counts :) |
| 03:40.46 | Amarande | mckenziemc: so at some point mages and pallies will never be able to use anything but the Blizzard buff and unit frames then :| |
| 03:40.50 | Amarande | once they find a way to fix that |
| 03:40.59 | Jerub | Amarande: at least blizz buff and unit frames are alright now |
| 03:41.02 | Jerub | i use them |
| 03:41.07 | Amarande | remember, finding an extra hotkey is not always the easiest thing in the world |
| 03:41.07 | Arrowmaster | mckenziemc: nothing to do with latency, its because it requires a round trip so its never possible |
| 03:41.23 | Amarande | especially one that needs to be as accessible as an oh shit button, which bubble-type mojo is |
| 03:41.29 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: why would they fix that? |
| 03:41.37 | Shirik | hm |
| 03:41.45 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: seriously you are crazy |
| 03:41.46 | Shirik | Having 'do' as a dual-purpose keyword leads to some really strange errors |
| 03:42.00 | Amarande | Arrow: well it at least *seems* to do the sort of intelligent action that they wanted to kibosh with the secure frames stuff |
| 03:42.05 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 03:42.10 | Arrowmaster | again, you are crazy |
| 03:42.22 | Jerub | i haven't raided since 4.0.3a |
| 03:42.29 | Amarande | part of the idea was they didn't want people to be able to do "if this, this, if that then that" type programmatic actions with one button. |
| 03:42.30 | Jerub | except for kara |
| 03:42.42 | Arrowmaster | Jerub: i haven't raided since 3.0.x |
| 03:42.43 | Amarande | Jerub: I've seen the first sets of trash in BWD, that's about it |
| 03:42.47 | Kraps | TC-Work: |
| 03:43.00 | Amarande | well, and we had a look at the bosses and paid out about 100g apiece on repair bills to see how the mechanics worked |
| 03:43.01 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: there is no logic in that macro |
| 03:43.30 | Shirik | Fun syntax error that tells you nothing about where the actual error is: |
| 03:43.35 | Shirik | (I just did this... how I don't know) |
| 03:43.40 | Shirik | http://codepad.org/3AaM77XX |
| 03:43.50 | Amarande | Shirik: what I love is on Linux or Unix type machines |
| 03:43.58 | Amarande | where you have a disk error that you can tell very obviously is a disk error |
| 03:44.03 | Amarande | and it just says "Error 5: I/O error" |
| 03:44.11 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: seriously i swear to you that iceblock used to have that behavior by default, one click to cast, one click again to cancel, i dont know why its not like that anymore for you |
| 03:44.43 | Amarande | Arrow: I should probably see if it still does |
| 03:44.48 | Amarande | I didn't figure it would. |
| 03:45.15 | Xyphoid | Shirik: ah, nesting bugs |
| 03:45.16 | Arrowmaster | although maybe they changed it because it was too easy to accidentally cancel |
| 03:45.24 | Amarande | Shirik: there's one or two cases where you actually have to "run out of" defile |
| 03:45.33 | Amarande | the most notable being if you got picked for Soul Harvest and happen to be in defile when you come out |
| 03:45.38 | Amarande | (which you have no way of seeing until you do) |
| 03:46.01 | Amarande | that's actually how my DK suffered a horrible cheap death once, too |
| 03:46.14 | Amarande | since the only way out was towards about 3-4 of the purple exploding souls |
| 03:46.29 | Jerub | Amarande: RNG is a bitch yo |
| 03:46.48 | Amarande | If it was anything but Defile, I would have AMS'd and went a way that didn't do that but that damned expanding mechanic kiboshes that |
| 03:47.02 | mckenziemc | yes Arrowmaster: by 'latency' i was referring to the fact that it wasn't an instant client-side response |
| 03:47.03 | Jerub | i'm planning to do more recruitment after christmas and put nubs through their paces in wotlk raids i think |
| 03:48.53 | Shirik | http://gawker.com/5714896/leaked-julian-assange-police-reports-reveal-worst-sex-ever |
| 03:48.57 | Shirik | Ironic, a leak about julian assange |
| 03:49.26 | mckenziemc | after an hour i finally caught up with chat >< |
| 03:50.15 | Shirik | I don't bother to catch up |
| 03:50.19 | Shirik | I just look for pings |
| 03:51.35 | zid | Can has 15k hyjal rep plzkthx? |
| 03:51.41 | zid | I'm so bored of doing dungeons |
| 03:53.50 | Kraps | "He deserves to be drawn and quartered for bearing a passing resemblance to NPH - thereby ruining NPH's reputation" |
| 03:54.43 | mckenziemc | sigh |
| 03:55.16 | mckenziemc | every time i get home, i forget to put my keyring by the computer, and have to go back to the table for it when i want to log into wow |
| 03:55.33 | zid | I just don't tell people my passwords |
| 03:55.37 | A-KO | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcnQ72sPZAI |
| 03:55.47 | zid | I learned that mistake when I was 12 |
| 03:55.48 | A-KO | zid!? |
| 03:55.49 | Iriel | zid: that rather misses the point |
| 03:55.54 | zid | A-KO: A-KO. |
| 03:55.58 | Amarande | mckenziemc: I think I'm getting an Android phone when I get my next AT&T discount upgrade |
| 03:56.00 | A-KO | sup! |
| 03:56.01 | mckenziemc | i could take it off but i worry about it getting hidden under the all the junk that piles on my desk |
| 03:56.15 | Amarande | the Windows Mobile phone I have sucks ass, and Android can do Authenticator |
| 03:56.27 | A-KO | I use my iphone for authenticator. Now, if only my work accounts were as secure as my wow account |
| 03:56.27 | Arrowmaster | AT&T has android phones? |
| 03:56.29 | A-KO | we'd be in business |
| 03:56.31 | A-KO | yes Arrowmaster |
| 03:56.35 | A-KO | they also have wp7 phones |
| 03:56.46 | Arrowmaster | they never offer me any for upgrade |
| 03:56.48 | batrick | man weechat is so awesome |
| 03:56.53 | Amarande | (btw, is the Authenticator for Android compatibility phone-model based or is it based on Android version? The Blizzard site seems to base it on phone model only regardless of OS ...) |
| 03:56.54 | batrick | much nicer than irssi |
| 03:57.01 | Arrowmaster | all i get is 3 offers to get iphones |
| 03:57.01 | batrick | Shirik: you should use weechat |
| 03:57.14 | Amarande | Arrow: I think you have to go to the AT&T site and shop your upgrade from there |
| 03:57.22 | Arrowmaster | i have |
| 03:57.26 | A-KO | I like my iphone |
| 03:57.27 | A-KO | :P |
| 03:57.28 | Arrowmaster | they only offer me iphones |
| 03:57.28 | Amarande | Or you could try Radio Shack |
| 03:57.44 | Amarande | they seem to honor the AT&T upgrade discount if you are eligible |
| 03:57.44 | Shirik | what is that batrick? |
| 03:58.02 | Arrowmaster | ive been eligible since before the iphone fucking came out |
| 03:58.17 | batrick | Shirik: irc chat client |
| 03:58.23 | batrick | it's dead sexy |
| 03:58.23 | Amarande | Also, you CAN use the Nexus S with AT&T (and it even has Gingerbread!) but you'll only get 2G. |
| 03:58.30 | batrick | it even has lua bindings! |
| 03:58.49 | Arrowmaster | batrick: cheap irssi clone |
| 03:58.49 | Amarande | (I think that's probably the case with any unlocked T-Mobile GSM phone, actually.) |
| 03:59.16 | Amarande | I don't think you really need 3G for authenticator though ;) |
| 04:00.55 | Arrowmaster | yeah list of android phones that att has is fucking pathetic |
| 04:01.16 | Amarande | Arrow: unlocked GSM ftw, then |
| 04:02.05 | Arrowmaster | Motorola Backflip, Motorola Flipout, MOTOROLA FLIPSIDE, Sony Ericsson Xperia (TM) X10, HTC Aria, MOTOROLA BRAVO, Samsung Captivate |
| 04:02.09 | Arrowmaster | pathetic list |
| 04:02.31 | Arrowmaster | i would get a G2 if it worked on att 3g |
| 04:03.56 | Kraps | if i vacuum the inside of my pc box do i need to shut it down? |
| 04:04.13 | zid | depends, do you give a shit if you break one of your fans |
| 04:04.18 | Amarande | hmm, if I go to AT&T's site and check into potential upgrades it pretty much offers me a choice of *any* AT&T phone |
| 04:04.26 | Kraps | zid: kinda :p |
| 04:04.31 | Amarande | of course, the prices for most of them are crappy (though that's because I don't get a discount until February 7) |
| 04:04.42 | Amarande | but they don't seem to restrict you to a small subset of the AT&T offerings |
| 04:05.05 | Dagmar | You sure htey're showing you all the models? |
| 04:05.23 | Thunder_Child | Kraps: there is a reason most things for cleaning out a computer are blowing, not sucking |
| 04:05.28 | Thunder_Child | ... |
| 04:05.50 | zid | I just wash mine |
| 04:06.19 | Dagmar | It's probably also helping that most of them now "require" a data plan, as well as a "you bought a fancy phone fee" tied to the two year contract, so they can afford to "subsidize" a phone you're going to be paying far too damn much for over the next two years |
| 04:06.40 | Amarande | there's also http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=unlocked+gsm+android&x=0&y=0 of course. |
| 04:06.57 | Dagmar | The "you bought a fancy phone" fee is generally worth about $246 all by itself. |
| 04:06.58 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: they also lock you into the data plan for the 2 years |
| 04:07.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@68.64.47.56) |
| 04:07.10 | Arrowmaster | so i cant get a free iphone4 and ebay it |
| 04:07.50 | Dagmar | So that's about $1,000 in shit you basically don't need, right there. |
| 04:07.52 | Dagmar | What a "deal" |
| 04:08.03 | Shirik | if you already had an iphone you could |
| 04:08.12 | Dagmar | The iPhone has wifi, right? |
| 04:08.16 | Shirik | or a data phone for that matter |
| 04:08.31 | Dagmar | Isn't it cool that it has that, but you're required to get a data plan anyway, even though wifi is as common as payphones used to be |
| 04:08.51 | Arrowmaster | i dont have a smart phone |
| 04:08.59 | Dagmar | It's almost like the cell provider isn't under any pressure to not fuck people |
| 04:09.09 | Arrowmaster | i have a cheap ass disposable phone i put my old sim chip in |
| 04:09.10 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Don't buy one on contract, ever. |
| 04:09.22 | Arrowmaster | used to have a contract |
| 04:09.25 | Arrowmaster | back in 02 |
| 04:09.33 | Arrowmaster | still using the same plan |
| 04:10.02 | Dagmar | Me since about 2004 when I switched to Sprint |
| 04:10.13 | Dagmar | ...mainly because they have a monopoly here. |
| 04:10.32 | Dagmar | They're the only provider with repeaters all over campus, so they're the only people I can get signal from |
| 04:11.16 | Amarande | Dagmar: you do need to get signal, too |
| 04:11.25 | Amarande | if you don't get signal, you'll never find out that all your base are belong to CATS |
| 04:11.42 | Dagmar | Amarande: I'm aware. I had Cingular for about six months when I started working here |
| 04:11.57 | Dagmar | If I pushed my phone up against a window, I could get a signal |
| 04:12.08 | Amarande | btw, when you buy unlocked third party phones do you still get stuck buying the data plan from AT&T once they find out you have it? |
| 04:12.16 | Dagmar | That depends. |
| 04:12.24 | Dagmar | mainly, if you're not on contract they don't dare fuck with you |
| 04:12.55 | Dagmar | Technically Sprint would be trying to charge me for both a data plan I don't need _and_ the "fancy phone" fee because I have a Palm 800w (which is shit) |
| 04:13.00 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc1 (~Mark@dialup-4.246.254.24.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 04:13.11 | Dagmar | ...however, since I'm not under a contract, they can't really risk trying to fuck me over because I will up and walk |
| 04:13.12 | Arrowmaster | you shouldnt have to |
| 04:13.13 | Amarande | there's also a fair selection of nexus ones on ebay |
| 04:13.25 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Tell that to the FTC. |
| 04:13.30 | Dagmar | They don't give you a choice |
| 04:13.40 | Amarande | most of which are not much more than the other smartphones AT&T is peddling cost, if more at all |
| 04:13.43 | Arrowmaster | when buying a phone from them yeah |
| 04:13.50 | Dagmar | If you call them and say "i'd like to activate this new phone I bought" they will fuck you. They will absolutely insist that the phone will not work without a data plan. |
| 04:14.07 | Amarande | Dagmar: that's the problem with providers like Verizon and Sprint, though |
| 04:14.09 | Arrowmaster | call them to activate the phone? |
| 04:14.10 | Dagmar | If you just go to their website and use the 'activate a new phone on my account' feature, it doesn't ask many nosy questions. |
| 04:14.14 | Amarande | you have to *actually activate the phone* |
| 04:14.17 | Arrowmaster | you just stick the sim chip in and it works |
| 04:14.17 | Dagmar | Amarande: AT&T pulls the same shit |
| 04:14.28 | Amarande | Dagmar: AT&T you don't have to call to activate a phone though. You just move the SIM card over. |
| 04:14.36 | Dagmar | If you call them, they'll start talking about the phone requiring extra fees |
| 04:14.49 | Amarande | OTOH, if I'm going to get an Android, I'm probably going to want a data plan anyway. |
| 04:14.52 | Amarande | Since pay per use SUCKS. |
| 04:14.54 | Arrowmaster | just tell them to disable data access on that line |
| 04:15.04 | Arrowmaster | 2/3 of our lines have data access disabled |
| 04:15.13 | Dagmar | Dude, you do know that Verizon just paid through the NOSE in a lawsuit over that, right? |
| 04:15.22 | Amarande | Arrow: wouldn't work for those of us attracted to Android because it works with Authenticator and such, though |
| 04:15.36 | Dagmar | They were for _years_ hitting people wiht a dollar fifty charges for a single K of data to a non-planned phone |
| 04:15.43 | Arrowmaster | authenticator shouldnt need data access |
| 04:15.46 | Arrowmaster | does it? |
| 04:15.52 | Iriel | Only for initial sync |
| 04:15.55 | Amarande | Arrow: when you need to sync, yeah |
| 04:16.02 | Arrowmaster | can it use wifi? |
| 04:16.23 | Dagmar | The entire time they and Sprint both were swearing up and down that they couldn't acutally disable data or SMS, and would simply offer to "generously waive the charges for unwanted SMS" |
| 04:16.42 | foreplay | is there an "\isin" in lua like there is in mIRC? like in mirc it'd be if (x isin xzibit) { msg $chan blah } |
| 04:16.48 | foreplay | "isin" * |
| 04:16.59 | Dagmar | Probably another reason Sprint isn't giving me any crap is that I've already beaten a few of their CSRs into the submission over that one |
| 04:17.04 | Shirik | You know what, I have decided Lua's biggest flaw is the lack of mutable tuples |
| 04:17.05 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: yeah att has allowed you to disable data and sms for years |
| 04:17.23 | Shirik | I just came across a situation that would be incredibly easy for the VM to handle but Lua simply doesn't have a syntax for |
| 04:17.31 | Dagmar | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:17.49 | Dagmar | Then when the bill came in (the charges were over $100 extra) I made some people's lives hell |
| 04:17.59 | Shirik | lol |
| 04:18.00 | Arrowmaster | foreplay: string.match |
| 04:18.39 | Shirik | You all need to get verizon |
| 04:18.48 | Dagmar | Why? |
| 04:18.49 | Arrowmaster | fuck no |
| 04:18.51 | Arrowmaster | never |
| 04:18.53 | Dagmar | They pull the same crap |
| 04:18.57 | Shirik | verizon takes care of me |
| 04:19.00 | Arrowmaster | verizon cant do math |
| 04:19.07 | Shirik | No |
| 04:19.10 | Arrowmaster | google verizon math |
| 04:19.12 | Shirik | One rep didn't go to school |
| 04:19.12 | Dagmar | The fees they collected that people didn't bother disputing were actually adding to their bottom line |
| 04:19.16 | Shirik | That's not everyone |
| 04:19.22 | Arrowmaster | lol that was not one rep |
| 04:19.28 | Shirik | it wasn't? |
| 04:19.32 | Arrowmaster | that was the entire CSR department |
| 04:19.41 | Arrowmaster | the entire company |
| 04:19.56 | Dagmar | It's very clear that they simply found it more profitable to nickle and dime customers over stray text messages that frankly, they could have been sending themselves, than it was to fix their system |
| 04:20.12 | Shirik | meh |
| 04:20.22 | Shirik | I have unlimited data, unlimited text, unlimited minutes |
| 04:20.25 | Shirik | I don't have to worry about this |
| 04:20.27 | Dagmar | I mean it DID go on for eight years before they got the living shit sued out of them |
| 04:20.47 | Dagmar | Eight years is not a one-time thing. That's a network overhaul and then some. |
| 04:20.50 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: and how much a month does that cost you? |
| 04:21.09 | Shirik | nothing! |
| 04:21.19 | Shirik | How much it costs my company, I don't know |
| 04:21.23 | Amarande | Shirik: I've actually considered Verizon when my AT&T contract expires |
| 04:21.35 | Dagmar | They also got popped for charging people ETFs if you cancelled your phone service so much as a _day_ before the contract was up |
| 04:21.41 | Amarande | that reminds me. is it possible to do the keep your number thing via online ordering or do you have to go into a store to make the switch to make it work? |
| 04:21.41 | Shirik | I'm just impressed with Verizon's coverage |
| 04:21.57 | Shirik | I am currently on a train going from FL to VA. I have gotten disconnected once so far. |
| 04:21.57 | Dagmar | http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/settlements/15012/verizon-settlement-lawsuit-class.html |
| 04:22.02 | Cide | Shirik, it probably costs them 0.01 cents |
| 04:22.04 | Shirik | Unlike AT&T which covers 97% of people, instead of area |
| 04:22.09 | Amarande | Dagmar: heh, when the Nexus One was still in the market, I actually considered *eating* the ETF from AT&T to get one |
| 04:22.12 | Dagmar | ^-- one of MANY lawsuits Verizon has lost over screwing their customers |
| 04:22.20 | Shirik | In all honesty, the times I need my phone is when I'm NOT around people |
| 04:22.23 | Dagmar | Amarande: At least AT&T would pro-rate it |
| 04:22.26 | Shirik | not when I am |
| 04:22.28 | Shirik | AT&T doesn't understand that |
| 04:22.46 | Amarande | because, with the contract discount from T-Mobile or (I think Verizon?), even eating the ENTIRE ETF plus the cost of the N1, would have been less than the N1 for AT&T (as the latter had no discount available) |
| 04:23.09 | Amarande | think it was like, 250 or 300 with a discount, AT&T ETF is 175 at full, AT&T N1 was 529 |
| 04:23.12 | Dagmar | It's pretty much always cheaper to buy a phone outright |
| 04:23.12 | Adys | what's the generic name of the items (tablets, scrolls) you use for archeology? |
| 04:23.13 | Adys | keystones? |
| 04:23.23 | Amarande | Adys: yeah |
| 04:23.24 | Dagmar | This is why these guys like the customized phone deal with the hardware manufacturers |
| 04:23.26 | Adys | thanks |
| 04:23.38 | Amarande | I'm still wondering if keystones should be used at every opportunity or if they should be saved more |
| 04:23.40 | Dagmar | This phone will be my _last_ Palm product |
| 04:23.54 | Amarande | I do see you can only use one per artifact, and it only gives you credit for 12 fragments, so for huge rare artifacts they're not really that useful ... |
| 04:24.04 | Dagmar | They actually got Palm to rig up the Pixi and the Pre so that the phone *itself* will refuse to work without going on Sprint's data plan |
| 04:24.07 | Amarande | but I'm starting to wonder if there are some artifacts later that *require* the keystones and cannot be made with fragments alone |
| 04:24.18 | Dagmar | No jailbreaking after the fact, the damn phone just won't let you configure it without a data plan |
| 04:24.36 | Dagmar | Amarande: There are artifacts which require a keystone and sometimes two, I'm told |
| 04:25.02 | Amarande | Dagmar: I've seen ones that can and cannot *take* a keystone, but yet to see one that can't be made without one |
| 04:25.16 | Dagmar | Far as I know it's some of the rares |
| 04:25.26 | Dagmar | mmoc had a bunch listed a few days ago |
| 04:25.26 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: with t-mobile since they offer cheaper plans if you pay the full phone price its easy to see the savings, but i dont think at&t offers different rates if you get a contract or not, not sure about the others since i never even pay attention to them |
| 04:26.04 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: At the moment I have a huge problem with the current practice of requiring this extra "fancy phone" fee, as well as requiring a data plan, that pretty much all the carriers are engaging in. |
| 04:26.43 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: yeah, I think with AT&T the only perk to not buying into a contract is that you can leave without an ETF |
| 04:26.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 04:26.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 04:27.10 | *** part/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (~Dark_Elf@h69-128-35-89.wdrnin.dsl.dynamic.tds.net) |
| 04:27.27 | Dagmar | It's a sign we need to start hollering at state reps to get the FTC some power to asshand a few telcos again when the lack of actual competition is going so far as to have _all_ the major carriers just making up fees out of thin air |
| 04:27.58 | Arrowmaster | i think it would be cheaper to go with t-mobile for me if i got a smartphone just because at&t doesnt offer discounts and their addon packages are so expensive |
| 04:27.59 | Dagmar | By the way, if you're talking to a rep in a store, get them to mention the fancy phone fee |
| 04:28.18 | Amarande | I haven't heard of a smartphone fee for AT&T, though. Just data plan fees. |
| 04:28.19 | Dagmar | They LOVE it when a customer asks loudly "Wait a minute, you're telling me I have to pay ten more dollars a month for nothing?" |
| 04:28.33 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: that is the smartphone fee |
| 04:28.46 | Amarande | Then it's not "ten more dollars a month for nothing" |
| 04:28.54 | Amarande | AT&T data fees without a data plan are pain. |
| 04:29.03 | Dagmar | "I don't actually get anything for that fee? You just think that since I could afford to buy the phone outright that I can afford to give you two hundred and forty dollars for doing not a fucking thing?" |
| 04:29.04 | |Jelly| | ^ |
| 04:29.23 | Dagmar | Amarande: The "fancy phone" fee is _not the data plan_ |
| 04:29.25 | Amarande | and chances are if I had an Android in particular I'd probably actually use the data service. |
| 04:29.32 | Dagmar | It's something that would normally be outright illegal |
| 04:29.50 | Dagmar | ...but you pay enough lobbyists enough money and you can fuck as many people over as you like |
| 04:30.11 | Amarande | Dagmar: I don't remember my bill going up when I got an LG Incite |
| 04:30.20 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: well they label it as the data plan, they have different data plans for different phones right |
| 04:30.21 | Amarande | (note: don't ever get an LG Incite. It sucks, and it doesn't even work with Authenticator.) |
| 04:30.32 | Dagmar | Amarande: You either got lucky or you got it before they started pulling this crap with all smartphones |
| 04:30.57 | Dagmar | The last time I spoke with both Sprint and Verizon (early last year) they both had it as a very conspicuous extra ten bucks a month |
| 04:31.29 | Arrowmaster | oh not part of the advertised price but one of the hidden fees on the bill? |
| 04:31.57 | Amarande | Dagmar: it could either be that AT&T does it differently or that they didn't do it in mid 2009 |
| 04:32.02 | mckenziemc1 | just get a simple cellphone + a notebook imo |
| 04:32.26 | Shirik | krka: Are your unit tests for kahlua publically available? |
| 04:32.31 | Amarande | I'm considering just getting a used nexus one from ebay, anyways though |
| 04:32.53 | Dagmar | Amarande: Could be that they got wind that such things are illegal and backed off after people like me started making scenes in stores |
| 04:33.13 | Amarande | Dagmar: there's also the fact that Sprint and Verizon have an easier time getting away with shit like that for technical reasons. |
| 04:33.26 | Amarande | Remember, with CDMA providers, you have to activate the *phone* with the phone company |
| 04:33.36 | Amarande | with GSM, you can just buy a new phone from anywhere and move your SIM |
| 04:33.57 | Dagmar | Remember that in a lot of the US, you don't really have that flexibility |
| 04:34.14 | Amarande | You generally have a choice between AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon. |
| 04:34.55 | Amarande | And T-Mobile. |
| 04:35.03 | Amarande | Though AT&T/T-Mobile is itself an annoying thing. |
| 04:35.06 | Shirik | lol T-Mobile |
| 04:35.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:35.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 04:35.10 | Amarande | Both have similar phones with similar features and both are GSM. |
| 04:35.22 | Amarande | But the phones for each of them will only do 3G on that provider and will only get 2G on the other one. |
| 04:35.27 | Amarande | Hence why I'm a bit annoyed about the new Google phone. |
| 04:35.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:35.36 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 04:35.51 | Amarande | I don't use data much, so I'm foggy what the exact data rates are for 2G and 3G |
| 04:36.11 | Arrowmaster | drasticly different i think |
| 04:36.26 | Shirik | What is this 3G crap |
| 04:36.31 | Shirik | on the cool networks it's called EVDO |
| 04:38.27 | Amarande | btw, I've heard that Androids can all be updated to the newest version, unlike say WinMo phones that you're stuck with the version they came with? |
| 04:39.36 | Dagmar | See, there's a fun thing |
| 04:39.47 | kd3 | har. this copy of deathwing has one health |
| 04:39.48 | Dagmar | If you ask Microsoft, they'll say "Oh yeah the phones are upgradable" |
| 04:39.57 | Dagmar | ...except they leave that up to the carriers to do. |
| 04:40.17 | Dagmar | ...which generally means if you got a phone where the firmware was customised in any way by hte manufacturer, you are fucked. |
| 04:40.21 | Arrowmaster | carriers or manufacturers? |
| 04:40.40 | Dagmar | The manufacturer customizes the firmware for the carrier, generally. |
| 04:41.01 | Dagmar | This Palm800w is a buggy piece of shit, and it's had all of *ONE* update. The daylight savings time change. |
| 04:41.15 | Dagmar | Sprint elected to never bother to handle a SINGLE damn patch. |
| 04:41.26 | Arrowmaster | right, the manufacturer has to make the updated firmware and the carrier has to push it out, so if one of them doesnt do it then it wont happen |
| 04:41.33 | Dagmar | That one patch, you had to download from *Palm* |
| 04:41.57 | Dagmar | s/if one of them doesn't do it then it won't happen/they basically never bother to do it because they already have your money/ |
| 04:42.15 | Arrowmaster | i dont know why anybody purchased anything from palm after the palmIII |
| 04:42.26 | Arrowmaster | that was the last decent thing they made |
| 04:42.30 | Dagmar | The PalmTX worked pretty well for me |
| 04:42.50 | Dagmar | I did switch to their Handspring unit when they forked away from Palm |
| 04:43.18 | Dagmar | My "Dot-Commie Red" Handspring Edge put up with a lot of bullshit from me |
| 04:43.36 | Dagmar | Irresponsible custom firmware flashing, dropping in lakes, general rough behaviour |
| 04:53.10 | *** join/#wowuidev tigingin88 (~gingtig88@76.216.62.194) |
| 04:53.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 04:54.15 | Shirik | OMG |
| 04:54.18 | Shirik | Tip I jsut got when logging in |
| 04:54.21 | Shirik | "Click on the lightwell" |
| 04:54.25 | Shirik | <3 Blizzard |
| 04:56.43 | Amarande | Shirik: that's because the lolwell is actually decent now |
| 04:57.00 | Amarande | It gets a worse reputation than it deserves because it pretty much sucked in BC when they first put it in :S |
| 04:57.15 | Amarande | and wasn't it the "super mega awesome top tier talent" for holy at that point? |
| 04:57.29 | Amarande | I think it was the 41 anyway |
| 04:57.39 | Amarande | but BC was pretty well known for having lemons for top tier talents |
| 04:57.49 | zid | It should be like the ones mobs use and just spit out heals to the lowest hp target in range |
| 04:58.00 | Amarande | It's somewhat telling about a tree's top tier talent when, say, the cookie cutter Destruction Warlock talent build was 0/21/40. |
| 04:58.03 | Kraps | http://twitter.com/#!/gabe_newell/status/17424824942989312 |
| 04:58.13 | zid | #! links can die in hell |
| 04:58.30 | Kraps | but they dont |
| 04:58.34 | zid | :( |
| 04:58.40 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-24-23-41-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:58.41 | Dagmar | Episode three of what? |
| 04:58.46 | zid | HL2 |
| 04:58.50 | Dagmar | Ah |
| 04:59.00 | Kraps | troll |
| 04:59.02 | zid | The joke on reddit is that gabe keeps delaying hl2 to go eat lunch etc |
| 04:59.13 | Dagmar | I thought "Surely he knows we think that sort of threat about Rain Slick EP3 is nothing but bullshit" |
| 04:59.14 | Amarande | btw, are the Episodes an expansion of the same story from original HL2 into multiple games or are they a completely new storyline? |
| 04:59.25 | zid | same game |
| 04:59.30 | zid | hence being episodes |
| 04:59.38 | Dagmar | Amarande: Storyline continuations, further character development, a few sex scenes |
| 04:59.41 | Amarande | zid: so basically, there's no real point to buying the Episodes if you have original HL2? |
| 04:59.46 | Dagmar | Damn Gabe has put on weight |
| 04:59.52 | zid | what? |
| 04:59.53 | Amarande | or is it more like how Persona 3 was redone, where the original is practically worthless now? |
| 04:59.55 | zid | hl2 == hl2:e1 |
| 05:00.05 | Dagmar | Amarande: Dude, they basically continue the game |
| 05:00.10 | zid | There is no 'hl2' |
| 05:00.15 | zid | there is only half life 2 episode 1 |
| 05:00.16 | Amarande | ah, so you want to start with Episode Two if you have the original HL2 |
| 05:00.21 | Dagmar | You mean "There is no Half Life 3" |
| 05:00.25 | Amarande | and don't buy Ep1 |
| 05:00.43 | mckenziemc | orly |
| 05:00.44 | Amarande | zid: there was just "HL2" before they started with the Episodes thing |
| 05:00.59 | Dagmar | Amarande: EP1 is the sequel, not the game |
| 05:01.02 | Amarande | ah. |
| 05:01.04 | Dagmar | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life_2:_Episode_One |
| 05:01.05 | mckenziemc | i thought Episode 1 was .. ah yeah |
| 05:01.09 | Amarande | so basically the original game is Episode 0. |
| 05:01.18 | mckenziemc | yeah |
| 05:01.26 | zid | I think I like, only have ep 2 |
| 05:01.30 | Dagmar | Nah. Instead of trying to call it HL3 and continue the same storyline, they just started making it episodic |
| 05:01.31 | zid | legit, anyway |
| 05:01.38 | Dagmar | I bought both EPs when they had them on sale |
| 05:01.45 | Amarande | (also, do the later episodes rely as much on the damn overhead tentacle ammo-supply-decimating things as the original?) |
| 05:02.02 | mckenziemc | lolbarnacles |
| 05:02.10 | Amarande | or at least it always *seems* that if you get caught by a barnacle it takes a stupid amount of ammo to make it let go |
| 05:02.13 | Dagmar | No the later ones really don't have any of the things you like to get histrionic about |
| 05:02.24 | Dagmar | Amarande: Stop sucking at the game. |
| 05:02.39 | Kraps | Dagmar: those things suck |
| 05:02.42 | Amarande | Dagmar: you have to remember that the last time I really played a non-deathmatch FPS before HL2 was ... Quake 2 or so. |
| 05:02.57 | Dagmar | Amarande: It took me all of about a half hour to get my chops back each time |
| 05:03.12 | Dagmar | You never really forget how to engage in mass murder in these things. |
| 05:03.25 | mckenziemc | i never got past ravenholm >.> |
| 05:03.29 | mckenziemc | well i got into the mine |
| 05:03.44 | Dagmar | You just get capped once or twice at hte outset and then it's all crouch-crawl-cover-shoot, crouch-crawl-cover-shoot |
| 05:03.44 | Amarande | mckenziemc: whenever you get to a place in a game with "Raven" in the name you know This Is Gonna Suck. |
| 05:04.07 | Amarande | Dagmar: that's also something I miss about old school FPS |
| 05:04.13 | Dagmar | Not havin cover? |
| 05:04.24 | Amarande | in old school FPS, you were encouraged to be out there in the firefights and actually spend most of your time killing things |
| 05:04.37 | zid | Goldeneye 64 for life |
| 05:04.37 | Amarande | now most action games you spend 80% of your time taking defensive action, if not more, and not actually doing damage |
| 05:04.42 | Dagmar | I don't really give the NPCs any time |
| 05:04.50 | mckenziemc | different subgenre |
| 05:04.55 | Amarande | It's also why I hated the Avatar battles in .hack//GU |
| 05:04.59 | Dagmar | Literally the moment I hit cover I take my shots and then move to the next spot to shoot someone |
| 05:05.13 | Dagmar | You are by no means required to spend any length of time in cover _if you can shoot_ |
| 05:05.30 | Amarande | Arcade style battles, you *couldn't heal at all*, you had to spend about 80% of your time blocking and dodging and barely got windows to do any real damage. |
| 05:05.39 | Amarande | The saving grace was that at least those battles gave you unlimited continues if you lost. |
| 05:05.48 | Dagmar | Yes, I used to stick quarters into those machines. |
| 05:05.54 | mckenziemc | you reminded me of how much i enjoyed rsv2 |
| 05:05.59 | Dagmar | Unlimited continues were a way to continue sucking. |
| 05:06.10 | Amarande | Dagmar: the avatar battles in .hack//G.U. are actually hard |
| 05:06.12 | Amarande | especially the later ones |
| 05:06.25 | Dagmar | If you weren't good enough to hack it in the part of the game you were in, putting another quarter in to _stay_ over your head was bad. |
| 05:06.39 | LebQzz | hmm |
| 05:06.42 | Amarande | they're also completely unlike the rest of the gameplay in the game |
| 05:06.44 | Dagmar | You'd master a game far faster if you never, ever continued. |
| 05:06.48 | Amarande | I think there's a trope for that. |
| 05:06.53 | mckenziemc | lebqzz: mmh |
| 05:07.15 | Amarande | Dagmar: OTOH, I've seen games where continues are actually useful even if you are good at the game |
| 05:07.16 | LebQzz | function something:something() end |
| 05:07.20 | Dagmar | My mom learned early not to let me say "Just let me finish this game" |
| 05:07.24 | LebQzz | i cant find a explenation on it? |
| 05:07.25 | Amarande | The Abyss in Wild Arms: Alter Code F comes to mind in particular. |
| 05:07.30 | Dagmar | ...because I could and would just _beat_ arcade units |
| 05:07.38 | mckenziemc | it's a language shortcut |
| 05:07.59 | Amarande | It was a super super mega long dungeon, and in Wild Arms games, MP restoratives are *extremely fucking rare*. |
| 05:08.10 | LebQzz | well i see it everywhere |
| 05:08.14 | LebQzz | but shortcut how? |
| 05:08.18 | Amarande | HOWEVER, if you wiped and used a continue, you got to restart the battle with your HP *and MP* refilled. |
| 05:08.18 | mckenziemc | it really means function something1.something2 (self, args) |
| 05:08.35 | zid | continue == megalixir then? |
| 05:08.39 | Amarande | zid: pretty much |
| 05:08.41 | mckenziemc | note the . instead of :, and the self |
| 05:08.44 | Kraps | http://twitpic.com/3dx7vc |
| 05:08.50 | Amarande | also canceled any sort of ambush or danger battle start and reset it to a normal fight |
| 05:09.11 | Amarande | the only price was that you didn't get any rewards from that fight |
| 05:09.28 | Amarande | and you had to have a Gimel Coin on hand to do it ... of course, Gimel Coins were an extremely common drop anyway |
| 05:09.31 | mckenziemc | lua> local a = {}; function a:b(x) print(x, "asdf") end; return a:b(7) |
| 05:09.32 | lua_bot | mckenziemc: 7, asdf |
| 05:10.29 | mckenziemc | the advantage is that whenever you do a:b() instead of a.b(), lua passes a as the first argument to the function |
| 05:10.41 | Amarande | Continues were useful in WA4, too |
| 05:10.48 | mckenziemc | you don't see it in the definition of a:b(), but that's because the : hides it in there |
| 05:10.50 | Cide | also known as www.lua.org/pil |
| 05:10.54 | Amarande | because the battle system there made for extremely quick and deadly fights, and a bad random start to battle often got you wiped out |
| 05:11.13 | Dagmar | Way to go Nintendo kiddie games |
| 05:11.42 | Dagmar | If a random bad start can fail you, you can win by the same measure. |
| 05:11.53 | Amarande | Dagmar: the number of save points was also very limited, though |
| 05:11.57 | Amarande | pretty much only one per area |
| 05:12.02 | zid | You're all a bunch of whiners, I've ascended in nethack 13 times |
| 05:12.18 | Dagmar | I don't know exactly when Nintendo decided that every game has to have at least a one-quarter chance that a drooling moron can win at the last minute, but I don't like it. |
| 05:12.38 | Amarande | so basically, it tended to be pretty far between save points |
| 05:12.42 | Dagmar | Perhaps it's time Little Johnny Nine-toes realized that his parents and that lead in the water do NOT make him special. |
| 05:12.53 | Amarande | combine that with a high-risk battle system, and yeah you needed some form of balance |
| 05:13.08 | Kraps | http://twitter.com/#!/gabe_newell/status/8636817989439488 |
| 05:13.13 | Adys | !api seat |
| 05:13.14 | lua_bot | Found 11 possible results for 'seat': CanSwitchVehicleSeats, UnitVehicleSeatCount, UnitInVehicleControlSeat, CanSwitchVehicleSeat, EjectPassengerFromSeat, UnitSwitchToVehicleSeat, UnitVehicleSeatInfo, VehiclePrevSeat, VehicleNextSeat, GetVehicleUIIndicatorSeat, CanEjectPassengerFromSeat |
| 05:13.25 | Amarande | WA4 wasn't really one of the games people liked especially much, though |
| 05:13.25 | Adys | !api GetVehicleUIIndicatorSeat |
| 05:13.26 | lua_bot | GetVehicleUIIndicatorSeat: This function is not yet documented (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetVehicleUIIndicatorSeat) |
| 05:13.29 | Adys | arg |
| 05:13.37 | Amarande | of course that could be because two of the EX File rewards weren't possible to get without a Gameshark, too |
| 05:14.21 | Amarande | and unless you played Alter Code F first, you had to play the whole game through twice pretty much to fight one of the bonus bosses |
| 05:14.45 | Amarande | (This is something I've been seeing in JRPGs pretty often, and it's also why I never beat Hitoshura in Digital Devil Saga.) |
| 05:15.24 | Adys | 07317474 |
| 05:15.26 | Adys | ops |
| 05:15.40 | Kraps | hacks Adys |
| 05:15.57 | Adys | quick kraps, you have 12 seconds left |
| 05:16.25 | Kraps | types fast like they do on crime dramas |
| 05:16.44 | mckenziemc | ssh adys; sudo shutdown -r +now |
| 05:17.29 | Amarande | Besides, don't you still need the password even if someone blows their current authenticator number? :) |
| 05:18.04 | Kraps | and their email address |
| 05:18.05 | Adys | thats.. my.. er.. the point.. erm |
| 05:18.06 | Adys | anyway |
| 05:18.27 | Adys | someone on US with access to a vehicle? |
| 05:18.30 | Adys | like a mammoth |
| 05:18.36 | Adys | or a hog |
| 05:18.44 | mckenziemc | <- raf rocket |
| 05:18.45 | Adys | or a touring rocket. |
| 05:18.46 | Corrodias | i am in the US and i have access to my car in the garage. :V |
| 05:18.56 | Amarande | Adys: my warlock has the three-seater war mammoth from VOA |
| 05:19.03 | Adys | mckenziemc: can you log on that char and help me out? |
| 05:19.04 | mckenziemc | 'wut you want' ? |
| 05:19.05 | Adys | or Amarande, whoever |
| 05:19.06 | mckenziemc | k |
| 05:19.11 | Dagmar | I have a scooter but it's a bit cold out |
| 05:20.06 | Amarande | still need me or did mck get it? |
| 05:20.16 | Adys | Amarande: if you can log on too, more data is good |
| 05:20.24 | mckenziemc | ^ |
| 05:20.50 | mckenziemc | i'm in |
| 05:21.16 | Adys | mckenziemc: can you run GetVehicleUIIndicatorSeat(0, 0) and GetVehicleUIIndicatorSeat(1, 1) and tell me the results for each? |
| 05:21.29 | Adys | use /dump ... |
| 05:22.08 | mckenziemc | empty result for both (yes i'm on the mount) |
| 05:22.52 | Adys | mckenziemc: dump GetVehicleUIIndicator(1) |
| 05:23.03 | mckenziemc | let me get on my other acc and get a char in the passenger seat |
| 05:23.08 | Amarande | ok, getting on my warlock |
| 05:23.17 | Adys | would be great. |
| 05:23.17 | Amarande | (also, what's the one for the third seat on the Grand Black War Mammoth?) |
| 05:23.30 | Adys | the what? |
| 05:23.30 | mckenziemc | that one just gives me the error message |
| 05:23.50 | Adys | what? |
| 05:24.03 | Adys | /dump GetVehicleUIIndicator(1) ? it shouldnt error |
| 05:24.22 | mckenziemc | i'm an idiot and didn't realize it was a diff function |
| 05:24.42 | Amarande | Adys: Empty on all three |
| 05:25.15 | mckenziemc | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:25.44 | Shirik | what the fuck did I just do |
| 05:25.50 | Shirik | Message: Error: AddOn <My addon> attempted to call a forbidden function (UNKNOWN()) from a tainted execution path. |
| 05:25.52 | Adys | mckenziemc: and 2 ? |
| 05:26.02 | Adys | Shirik: HACKER |
| 05:26.14 | mckenziemc | empty result again : / |
| 05:26.16 | Kraps | MOAR HOTFIXES http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/1232869 |
| 05:26.29 | mckenziemc | 0 is the same |
| 05:26.56 | Adys | ffs. how are you supposed to get the passenger seat id |
| 05:27.19 | Adys | Weekly resets and calculations which occur during regular maintenance should no longer be applied one hour early, which should prevent them from being run twice. |
| 05:27.20 | Adys | lol. |
| 05:27.20 | Amarande | heh, power auras: "stacks only display up to 99" |
| 05:27.37 | Amarande | is there even a buff or debuff in the game that stacks beyond that under any reasonably often seen circumstances, besides the Sanity stack on Yogg? |
| 05:28.10 | Amarande | I suppose POTENTIALLY necrotic plague can go that high, but I don't know if anyone's ever had it go that high without wiping first :) |
| 05:28.23 | Adys | Amarande: http://db.mmo-champion.com/spell/?stack__gt=99 |
| 05:28.36 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/spell/?stack__gt=100 too. theres some 999 there |
| 05:28.59 | mckenziemc | cheking on my other char now |
| 05:29.04 | Amarande | "Buff"? |
| 05:29.08 | Amarande | There's a buff in there called "Buff"? |
| 05:29.11 | Amarande | LOL |
| 05:29.45 | Adys | The duration of the Superheated Quicksilver Armor debuff on Karsh Steelbender is now 17 seconds, up from 12 seconds. The encounter was too hard to tank and went against our intended fight mechanics |
| 05:29.48 | Adys | thats interesting. |
| 05:30.12 | Amarande | I'm trying to remember which instance that is now :S |
| 05:30.20 | Adys | brc |
| 05:30.20 | mckenziemc | both GetVehicleUIIndicatorSeat dumps are empty for the passenger |
| 05:30.22 | Amarande | ah yes |
| 05:30.23 | Adys | Chaos Orbs can now only been seen and rolled on by characters with a minimum skill level of 425 in Tailoring, Blacksmithing, Leatherworking, or Engineering. |
| 05:30.27 | Amarande | that would explain it, only seen that guy once. |
| 05:30.39 | Kraps | Adys: I havent tanked that but really? |
| 05:31.11 | mckenziemc | and both GetVehicleUIIndicator dumps are empty |
| 05:31.23 | Adys | Kraps: the encounter *was* hard. The hardest of the instance. although, yesterday we did the 15 stacks achievement without TOO many issues and with a mostly unexperienced tank |
| 05:31.31 | Adys | mckenziemc: thanks, ill test myself when servs are back up |
| 05:31.48 | LebQzz | hmm |
| 05:31.54 | LebQzz | running out of ideas lol |
| 05:32.03 | Adys | All 28 of the Vicious Gladiator 2200 rating weapons now require level 86 to equip. This is a temporary fix to prevent items which were obtained prematurely due to a bug causing Arena rating inflation from being used. |
| 05:32.05 | Adys | be serious |
| 05:32.20 | Amarande | Adys: yeah, Cata encounters in general are pretty brutal. |
| 05:32.40 | Adys | Quest credit for killing Fungalmancer Glop should now be awarded to all players on his threat list. |
| 05:32.40 | Adys | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:32.41 | Amarande | oh, that reminds me. is Battleground rating of any use for getting PvP gear or does it still all depend specifically on your skill at 3v3 and 5v5 deathmatches? |
| 05:32.53 | Amarande | Adys: finally some more consistency, there |
| 05:32.53 | Adys | Amarande: no, bg rating is taken in account too |
| 05:32.55 | zid | Adys: I got it for being close, yesterday |
| 05:33.04 | zid | I was above him, killing giants |
| 05:33.06 | LebQzz | hmm anyone noticed not getting orbs from hc's |
| 05:33.08 | zid | and a party member kiled glob |
| 05:33.10 | zid | I got credit |
| 05:33.12 | Amarande | some of those fights you have to be on the threat list, other ones you have to have the tag, and there's no real consistency to it |
| 05:33.15 | zid | LebQzz: it's not 100% droprate |
| 05:33.17 | Adys | zid: party members getting it counts for you. |
| 05:33.28 | Adys | zid: this is about ungrouped players getting it too |
| 05:33.30 | zid | ah right |
| 05:33.39 | Kraps | LebQzz: Chaos Orbs can now only been seen and rolled on by characters with a minimum skill level of 425 in Tailoring, Blacksmithing, Leatherworking, or Engineering. |
| 05:33.50 | LebQzz | aaah |
| 05:33.54 | zid | Kraps: The droprate still isn't 100% |
| 05:34.04 | LebQzz | yesterday aswell? BEFORE the maintenance |
| 05:34.06 | zid | I did stonecore earlier and didn't have an orb drop |
| 05:34.09 | Kraps | hmm |
| 05:34.20 | Amarande | zid: that's a good thing with BoP orbs, then |
| 05:34.30 | zid | why is that good? :/ |
| 05:34.34 | zid | I was trying to get more orbs |
| 05:34.36 | LebQzz | lol noticed how DREAMcloth is BOP lol |
| 05:34.39 | zid | and one didn't even drop |
| 05:34.47 | LebQzz | 1 week pr cloth and you need 6 for a belt lol |
| 05:35.00 | Amarande | zid: people with orb-using professions would be in an even better position to arrange to game groups for their benefit |
| 05:35.09 | Amarande | how much do people usually charge per orb? probably four digits or so right now? |
| 05:35.14 | zid | yea |
| 05:35.15 | LebQzz | no idea ;P |
| 05:35.17 | zid | but then, ore is 200g a stack |
| 05:35.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 05:35.28 | Kraps | test |
| 05:35.33 | Amarande | zid: yeah. all you have to do is cherry-pick a group from trade ensuring that there are no other people who have professions with orbs |
| 05:35.40 | zid | that's a bad thing? |
| 05:35.44 | Amarande | and you basically have gotten people to give you 1000g for free as long as they can do the instance |
| 05:35.51 | zid | why put orbs on a >90% droprate instead of 100% |
| 05:36.03 | zid | it just makes your expected return 900g not 1000g |
| 05:36.04 | Amarande | that's actually the problem with them being BOP in general though |
| 05:36.11 | Amarande | you have what, 10 or 11 professions now? |
| 05:36.27 | zid | I have 6 |
| 05:36.36 | zid | On my dood |
| 05:36.46 | Amarande | of which 4 can use the orbs, of which only 2 really need most of the orbs (engineers only need it to make goggles, which they will only make once, and bows, while tailors can use volatile life for dreamcloth) |
| 05:36.55 | zid | mining, blacksmithing, jewelcrafting, herbalism, inscription, alchemy, engineering, enchanting |
| 05:37.09 | Amarande | basically, there's a good chance that the rest of the party is doing a heroic for primarily the benefit of one single character who has an Orb using profession |
| 05:37.09 | zid | Amarande: erm, I'm a blacksmith and I've used 9 orbs already |
| 05:37.24 | zid | chestpieces are 3 orbs by themselves |
| 05:37.25 | Amarande | (who, chances are, WON'T give up the orb for free craft even to someone else who was in that party) |
| 05:38.01 | Amarande | It's like being a Sorceress or Elemental Druid or Necro or such in Diablo 2 and watching all the melee get all the good drops by being near enough to click, then expecting you to cough up trade goods to get the items from the mobs *you* killed |
| 05:38.14 | Amarande | At least WoW trade goods can be obtained legitimately! |
| 05:38.16 | zid | The duration of the Superheated Quicksilver Armor debuff on Karsh Steelbender is now 17 seconds, up from 12 seconds. The encounter was too hard to tank and went against our intended fight mechanics |
| 05:38.33 | Amarande | It was worse in D2, because you pretty much HAD to engage in RMT and the use of hacked items in order to be able to make the trade. |
| 05:38.36 | zid | that's probably the biggest change in there :P |
| 05:38.59 | zid | Corborus should no longer reset if any of the Rock Borers evade. |
| 05:39.00 | zid | woot |
| 05:39.12 | Amarande | zid: wait, what? |
| 05:39.15 | Amarande | I've never seen that happen |
| 05:39.16 | Adys | wow |
| 05:39.18 | zid | I have |
| 05:39.19 | Adys | be serious ffs |
| 05:39.32 | Adys | Iriel: /dump GetVideoOptions(6) makes the game crash. could you report that? |
| 05:39.40 | Amarande | I also still think that the people who complain about Lost in the Deeps should get a fix like this: |
| 05:39.53 | zid | People complain about lost in the deeps? O_o |
| 05:39.59 | Amarande | "The normal worms no longer spawn in the caverns in Deepholm. Instead, Corborus will spawn, hostile, with full boss powers." |
| 05:40.00 | zid | they hotfixed the only thing that was annoying about it already |
| 05:40.22 | Amarande | zid: people complained that Pebble kept getting nommed by worms |
| 05:40.24 | Iriel | Adys: aye |
| 05:40.31 | Adys | thanks |
| 05:40.33 | zid | pebble gets eaten by worms? wat? |
| 05:40.36 | Corrodias | i remember my early days in WoW. i climbed up to a cliff that i couldn't run up and attacked a mob. imagine my surprise when it ran straight up the sheer cliff. |
| 05:40.40 | LebQzz | i dont like they fixeed the sheep spawn ;P |
| 05:40.50 | Amarande | or maybe it was getting separated from Pebble and failing it because of the worm |
| 05:41.11 | Amarande | Corrodias: my first encounters with the Evade mechanic were also annoying as all get out |
| 05:41.27 | Amarande | Hey! I'm a ranged class! Maybe I should USE LOGICAL SEEMING STRATEGY and go for mobs from a place where they cannot get to me! |
| 05:41.34 | Amarande | "Evade. Sorry, that doesn't work, bitch." |
| 05:41.42 | Corrodias | :D |
| 05:41.45 | Iriel | Adys: you owe me 60 seconds of having to log back in 8-) |
| 05:41.53 | zid | Amarande: yep, that's pretty much the entire quest though |
| 05:41.58 | zid | do you know how to get past the worm |
| 05:42.07 | Adys | Iriel: Get in bed then. Let's get it over with. |
| 05:42.08 | Amarande | zid: except to get that far, you need to know how to get past the worm |
| 05:42.13 | Amarande | since you had to earlier in the therazane chain if I recall |
| 05:42.26 | Corrodias | i remember mobs under the ground in the barrens. possibly some invisible ones, too, but i think now that they may have just been under the ground. |
| 05:42.27 | Corrodias | good times |
| 05:42.33 | Iriel | Need to get my worgen mage out of the starting area |
| 05:42.36 | zid | WC had stuff under the floor |
| 05:42.49 | Amarande | At least there are still a few mobs where you can game the system in a ludicrous way. |
| 05:42.49 | zid | uldum has some really damn buggy Entering Combat stuff going on, anyone else seen that? |
| 05:42.53 | Corrodias | ashenvale, i think, had a couple spots. |
| 05:43.01 | Amarande | The last Fumper quest in Terokkar is a good example |
| 05:43.07 | Amarande | I love soloing that and barely taking any damage |
| 05:43.44 | mckenziemc | adys, i wrote a raw-hook script to watch how blizz calls those funcs; i'll get you my results via pastey in a few minutes |
| 05:43.46 | Iriel | zid: I have that happening almost everywhere |
| 05:43.47 | Amarande | zid: makes you wonder if the Combat flag is really that great a mechanic |
| 05:44.01 | Amarande | why not just remove the Combat flag entirely, and just have stuff not meant to be cast in combat be interrupted hard by any damage at all? |
| 05:44.04 | zid | It's nice to have the floaty text for it |
| 05:44.05 | Adys | mckenziemc: smart thing is probably to look at Vehicle*.lua, but im too lazy to extract |
| 05:44.14 | zid | Amarande: it's sort of needed to stop people drinking |
| 05:44.17 | Amarande | like the old "easily interrupted" skills from Guild Wars |
| 05:44.19 | zid | like, completely required |
| 05:44.30 | zid | else the healers would do nothing but macro /use Water after every skill |
| 05:44.34 | zid | and gain 1 tick of it |
| 05:45.17 | Kraps | i think my video cards are broken :( |
| 05:45.42 | Shirik | Iriel: Adys owes me more like 5 minutes |
| 05:45.47 | Shirik | since my laptop is freaking out now |
| 05:46.00 | Amarande | In Guild Wars, there were two kinds of interruptible skills, normal and "easily interrupted". Normally interruptible skills didn't suffer ANY sort of retardation at all from damage, you had to either use an explicit Interrupt skill, kill the caster, or use something like a knockdown that interrupts as a side effect. Easily interruptible skills would be cut off from any hit at all. |
| 05:46.01 | Adys | gj Shirik, way to test it after Iriel confirming the crash |
| 05:46.25 | Shirik | What kind of hacker would I be if I didn't try things for myself |
| 05:46.27 | Amarande | The latter thus often de facto ending up like WoW's "can't be used in combat" stuff except that you had to be hit, and it also wouldn't cut off automatically on-aggro like such things do in WoW. |
| 05:46.33 | Iriel | Shirik even saw me log out and back in again |
| 05:46.40 | Shirik | Now that I see the crash, my next task is to see what its root cause is |
| 05:46.49 | Shirik | don't give me that |
| 05:46.53 | Amarande | (This last is a feature I find somewhat misfeaturey ... a mob should have to hit you to cause your non-combat spell to end, not just aggro to you.) |
| 05:46.55 | Dagmar | They could, of course, simply give you a massive penalty to damage avoidance/absorbtion due to armor if you get hit while you're sitting on your ass drinking |
| 05:46.58 | Shirik | You've been logging in and out all night |
| 05:47.07 | zid | They need to make ozruk's elementium armor undispellable |
| 05:47.08 | Dagmar | I'm sure that would go over like gangbusters |
| 05:47.09 | Iriel | Oh, I did have an earlier problem |
| 05:47.16 | Iriel | due to minecraft server taking out my internets |
| 05:47.24 | Dagmar | zid: Wait... you can dispel that? |
| 05:47.25 | Adys | Shirik |
| 05:47.27 | Shirik | haha |
| 05:47.28 | Adys | !api getvideooptions |
| 05:47.29 | lua_bot | GetVideoOptions: This function is not yet documented (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetVideoOptions) |
| 05:47.38 | Adys | bad lua_bot, not up to date |
| 05:47.39 | zid | Dagmar: YES, shield slam takes it off |
| 05:47.43 | Dagmar | Holy crap |
| 05:47.45 | zid | so you can't tank him as a warrior very well |
| 05:47.53 | Dagmar | Oh... oh... I see |
| 05:48.02 | zid | now you see why I think it should be changed, I bet :P |
| 05:48.11 | zid | I have to do erm 'lol devestate, hope I hold aggro' |
| 05:48.26 | Amarande | zid: is this why ozruk on heroic has been giving people major grief? |
| 05:48.27 | Dagmar | Having been through there about a half-dozen times using the pug-finder, I don't see Shield Slam as being the major problem actually |
| 05:48.40 | Dagmar | Mainly idiot tanks just charging in seem to have reached epic levels |
| 05:48.43 | Amarande | I've heard of him one-shotting tanks, which doesn't seem to be intended. |
| 05:48.54 | zid | No, ozruk is major grief because he has a strange hitbox, shockwave hits slightly behind him, and shatter is hard to get out of unless you position him correctly |
| 05:49.04 | DWSR | zid: Yeah. |
| 05:49.07 | DWSR | He's pretty ugh. |
| 05:49.12 | zid | I've killed him in 1 attempt in my last 3 goes, thankfully, but the first time I fought him I wiped the group 6 times |
| 05:49.14 | Amarande | zid: not to mention, yeah shatter. |
| 05:49.15 | Dagmar | You do realize I have _monkey tanked_ that guy, right? |
| 05:49.17 | Kraps | "The Federal Communications Commission today officially adopted net neutrality rules today" |
| 05:49.23 | Amarande | Dagmar: Might even be easier. |
| 05:49.28 | Amarande | Pets take 90% reduced damage from AoE. |
| 05:49.31 | Kraps | and "Ars Technica points out the obvious: most everyone hates the new net neutrality rules - even among those groups that support it." |
| 05:49.32 | DWSR | Dagmar: That's probably easier, actually. |
| 05:49.37 | DWSR | Since your pet takes 90% reduced shatter. |
| 05:49.41 | Dagmar | Amarande: Trust me, with the delay pet controls have it's _not_ easier |
| 05:49.52 | zid | I don't know why they can't fix pet la |
| 05:49.53 | zid | lag* |
| 05:49.56 | Dagmar | There's a lot of fights where a gorilla has a *damn* easy time of it tho |
| 05:50.02 | Amarande | I'm also starting to fall more and more out of love with my DK, too. |
| 05:50.03 | Dagmar | Stonecore in particular |
| 05:50.06 | DWSR | Amarande: HOW? |
| 05:50.10 | *** join/#wowuidev taroven (~taroven|M@74.83.197.157) |
| 05:50.11 | Amarande | And thinking that my paladin will stick to Holy. |
| 05:50.12 | DWSR | YOU HAVE DARK SIMULACRUM. |
| 05:50.17 | Dagmar | Hehehe |
| 05:50.21 | Amarande | DWSR: Is there actually anything much in PvE where that is useful? |
| 05:50.22 | DWSR | YOU CAN TOTALLY GAMEBREAK THIS GAME WITH BLIZZARDS BLESSING. |
| 05:50.27 | zid | Dagmar: tank karsh through the fire with a pet :) |
| 05:50.32 | Amarande | I'm looking at the new abilities we got as a DK ... |
| 05:50.38 | DWSR | They're all PvP oriented. |
| 05:50.41 | DWSR | What's your point, exactly? |
| 05:50.47 | Amarande | Necrotic and Simulacrum look to be PvP oriented, while Outbreak is mostly useful for tanking. |
| 05:50.57 | zid | I wish heroic leap was a bit better |
| 05:50.59 | Amarande | But that's not why I'm falling out of love with my DK |
| 05:50.59 | DWSR | And yes, there is a bunch of stuff that DS is useful for in PvE. |
| 05:51.11 | zid | 99% of the time when I use it, it's to catch up to the rogue using sprint after a wipe |
| 05:51.16 | Amarande | It's more a noting that being melee DPS is a horribly, horribly, horribly painful role now |
| 05:51.32 | Amarande | Cata favors ranged DPS about as strongly as BC. |
| 05:51.32 | DWSR | Amarande: And Necro is as useful as MS in PvE, and Outbreak is useful when Unholy. |
| 05:51.39 | DWSR | Amarande: Oh, meh. |
| 05:51.44 | Amarande | DWSR: MS is no longer useful in PvE, actually :| |
| 05:51.50 | DWSR | Amarande: Yeah it is. |
| 05:51.58 | Amarande | they nerfed all of that so badly that it barely slows mob healing at all |
| 05:51.58 | DWSR | Against bosses like in SFK. |
| 05:52.05 | DWSR | 10% is better than nothing man. |
| 05:52.13 | Dagmar | Oh wait, I'm getting bosses mixed up. The obsidium armor guy in Blackrock is a mighty pain in the ass to monkey tank |
| 05:52.15 | Amarande | Even at 25%, Widow Venom (hunter's MS) didn't stop mobs with Heal or better from fully healing with a cast |
| 05:52.17 | DWSR | And NeSt is actually better. |
| 05:52.21 | Dagmar | Ozruk was child's play |
| 05:52.26 | Dagmar | Maybe let the hunter tank next time you do him |
| 05:52.38 | mckenziemc | adys: my data - http://paste.wowace.com/3023/ |
| 05:52.49 | Dagmar | All the stuff that would usually be a problem for a player did squat to my gorilla |
| 05:52.57 | zid | Dagmar: karsh = mercury armor that melts, ozruk = stone giant with shatter |
| 05:52.57 | Dagmar | I also hate my guild leader because he makes me monkey tank. |
| 05:52.59 | Amarande | but yeah, it seems like melee DPS is being punished HARD in Cata, compared to LK where they actually were shining |
| 05:52.59 | Dagmar | Heh |
| 05:53.11 | Amarande | You know, now I wonder if they just made it easier on melee in LK because they wanted to showcase the Death Knight class |
| 05:53.12 | DWSR | Amarande: If you're good, you're not at a serious disadvantage, actually. |
| 05:53.20 | Amarande | since in BC, melee DPS was a painful role as well |
| 05:53.21 | Adys | heh thanks mckenziemc |
| 05:53.26 | Dagmar | zid: Karsh's armor is obsidium |
| 05:53.38 | Amarande | DWSR: the main issue I'm seeing with Cata and MDPS is that there are far, far too many PBAoE's |
| 05:53.40 | Dagmar | Just the same that one's a damn nightmare to reposition with a monkey |
| 05:53.40 | zid | I was being alogorical! |
| 05:53.46 | zid | I bet :D |
| 05:53.57 | Dagmar | Usually I wind up having to distracting shot and hunter bubble at least ONCE |
| 05:54.01 | zid | ozruk's 'hit me to break paralyze buff' is the thing you can knock off with shield slam |
| 05:54.12 | Amarande | which causes your DPS to sink like a stone as you have to keep running out (sometimes fairly far out, like shatter, which I often barely manage to get out of in time even *with* unholy presence) |
| 05:54.23 | Adys | "I believe you. You just might want to work on that pokerface." |
| 05:54.36 | Dagmar | With ozruk I just put the monkey against the wall and let Ozzy start hitting him, and proceeded to loldps and see if the monkey lost any significant HP |
| 05:54.39 | zid | Amarande: thankfully, as the tank, I can charge back in at 90% cast, take no damage, resume tanking, and have him not move 2 yards and mess my positioning up |
| 05:54.39 | Amarande | Then there's bosses like the last one in Tol'vir, where it's almost impossible not to put seriously bad additional pressure on the healer as melee DPS |
| 05:54.58 | Amarande | zid: yeah, that's one of the things about the other MDPS classes. they don't really have a Charge. |
| 05:55.10 | zid | I love my triple charge jumps |
| 05:55.11 | Dagmar | Haven't done Tol'vir yet but I'm pretty sure I will be gorilla-tanking Halls of Origination this weekend since I'm the only one in my guild that's been in there as far as I know |
| 05:55.15 | Amarande | Rogues *might* be able to use shadowstep somehow (haven't leveled a rogue high enough); Pallies and DKs have to walk. |
| 05:55.24 | zid | heroic leap to 20 yards from healer, intervene healer, charge a mob, intervene another mob |
| 05:55.25 | Amarande | Dagmar: the issue with Tol'vir final boss is this |
| 05:55.34 | zid | I can cover >100 yards in 4 seconds |
| 05:55.43 | zid | intercept another mob* |
| 05:55.44 | Amarande | 1) There is so much damage going around, that you *can't* afford to take your time because the healer WILL OOM and you WILL DIE. |
| 05:55.57 | DWSR | Amarande: Honestly, there are a few fights where I'd agree, but to be honest, it's nice to have the extra survival against certain encounters as well. |
| 05:56.01 | zid | well, you can, now |
| 05:56.02 | Amarande | 2) He summons adds, in three places, around the outerish part of the platform. All of which must die before he really takes any significant damage at all. |
| 05:56.11 | zid | considering all the healers I roll with are ilvl 350+ |
| 05:56.14 | DWSR | Amarande: I would say it's harder to be a melee DPS now, and the good ones who don't get hit by cleave are really shining through. |
| 05:56.22 | DWSR | So basically, you're just experiencing a skill cap. |
| 05:56.34 | Dagmar | Amarande: They all just kinda got rolled into "the mess" last night in HoO |
| 05:56.35 | Dagmar | Hehe |
| 05:56.38 | zid | I get hit by cleave every damn time |
| 05:56.43 | Amarande | 3) Not only that, but as melee, not only do you keep taking tons of damage, but you also have to take the longest route between each set of adds, because he makes the whole middle part around him pretty much entirely consist of don't-stand-in-the-shit. |
| 05:56.46 | zid | the healer doesn't ever seem to mind though |
| 05:56.51 | Dagmar | "Oh look. New guy spawned... MD to tank, send in pet, pound away..." |
| 05:57.12 | DWSR | Dagmar: That's what you should do to your woman too. |
| 05:57.14 | DWSR | pound away. |
| 05:57.18 | Dagmar | I finally broke it to the PUG after we were done that I'd never been in HoO before. |
| 05:57.29 | Dagmar | DWSR: No way man, if it's one thing I learned in college, it's how to eat *****./ |
| 05:57.33 | Amarande | Dagmar: bosses in HoO aren't so bad, though |
| 05:57.38 | Dagmar | Why would I let my college education go to waste? |
| 05:57.39 | zid | HoO is fucking easy :/ |
| 05:57.42 | Amarande | the worst thing is people not understanding that shadowlancers are WAY more dangerous than the big guy |
| 05:57.46 | zid | probably the easiest overall heroic |
| 05:57.49 | Amarande | because everyone's conditioned to "get the big guy first" |
| 05:57.58 | zid | Amarande: There's only one of them though |
| 05:58.00 | DWSR | Dagmar: Yeah, girls appreciate when you have some oral skill. |
| 05:58.02 | Amarande | and tend to try to shrug off any instance that forces them to do otherwise. |
| 05:58.03 | Dagmar | Did they do something to make it easy for people to not take damage from the fall to get at those switches in HoO? |
| 05:58.04 | zid | on the corridor before halls of light |
| 05:58.11 | Amarande | this is why Ahn'kahet was hated, too. |
| 05:58.13 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 05:58.18 | zid | Dagmar: I just charge a snake :) |
| 05:58.26 | Dagmar | DWSR: They say that one in nine women has never had an orgasm. I think I made pretty good inroads on changing that when I was in college |
| 05:58.27 | Adys | Amarande: at least only 3 bosses are req |
| 05:58.28 | Amarande | zid: there's a few pulls with a shadowlancer and one with two, I think |
| 05:58.36 | Dagmar | zid: Ah so THAT's how they were doing it |
| 05:58.39 | Amarande | Adys: that's a good and a bad thing |
| 05:58.44 | DWSR | Dagmar: I always shoot for 6 orgasms to every 1 of mine. |
| 05:58.46 | zid | Amarande: there is one at the start, which doesn't need to be killed, and one in the corridor to halls of light |
| 05:58.51 | DWSR | Dagmar: I haven't failed yet. |
| 05:58.57 | zid | Amarande: The first pull in HoO is 1 ranger, 1 healer, 1 shadowlancer, 1 big guy |
| 05:58.59 | Dagmar | I spent half the fight going "how the hell did they do that without cratering" |
| 05:59.02 | zid | but the big guy OPENS WITH FIRESTORM |
| 05:59.04 | Amarande | Adys: the downside of instances like that is going to show later on |
| 05:59.08 | zid | you can just heroic throw the shadow lancer |
| 05:59.13 | zid | kill it in the starting room |
| 05:59.15 | Amarande | as people are trying to gear later characters to meet the heroic requirements |
| 05:59.22 | zid | the big guy sits there for 30 seconds doing rain of fire in an empty room |
| 05:59.27 | Amarande | and half the dungeon gear comes from bosses that everyone will skip to get faster daily random JP |
| 05:59.35 | zid | JP is useless atm |
| 05:59.35 | Dagmar | Azil was a BITCH for us until we finally clued in |
| 05:59.47 | zid | I have 0 things to buy with JP |
| 05:59.47 | Dagmar | ...although the first wipe was pretty hilarious |
| 05:59.52 | Amarande | zid: depends on your class and spec |
| 05:59.58 | DWSR | Dagmar: She's a hoe. |
| 06:00.01 | zid | Amarande: I'm ilvl350 :) |
| 06:00.09 | Dagmar | "Oh look, there's our last 45 trash mobs! *send in monkey*" |
| 06:00.16 | Amarande | Yeah, it's going to be more of an issue for people trying to get 329 later in the expansion |
| 06:00.17 | DWSR | Although, it's pretty epic to let the healer pull aggro and subsequently kill everything in the WALL of wells. |
| 06:00.23 | Amarande | and wanting to do it without having to blow thousands of gold on the auction house |
| 06:00.52 | Dagmar | Pulled the monkey back, fired off a multishot misdirect that looked like a _solid fan of bullets_ and then two people (includin the gorilla) were dead before the numbers even left my screen |
| 06:01.01 | zid | Dagmar: I can solo the 100 mobs before anzil :) |
| 06:01.02 | Amarande | A bunch of gear that would help people won't be accessible, because people won't do, say, the top floor bosses in HoO apart from the one that officially finishes the instance |
| 06:01.12 | Dagmar | Pulling all three squads of trash at once... not a winning scenario |
| 06:01.14 | DWSR | zid: I can too as a frost DK. |
| 06:01.15 | DWSR | LOLHB. |
| 06:01.18 | zid | Amarande: i've never not killed all 4 |
| 06:01.35 | Amarande | It's like if LK had requirements like that, and you needed something from one of the bosses people skip in Ahn'kahet. |
| 06:01.46 | zid | Then again, I'm the tank, people do what I say, or they're standing next to rajh alone, so maybe I'm alone on that |
| 06:01.49 | Dagmar | zid: The thing that got us is that were trying to just kill her adds ourselves |
| 06:02.01 | zid | Dagmar: We do |
| 06:02.02 | Dagmar | We were too used to mobs never taking damage from stuff on the flood |
| 06:02.10 | Dagmar | zid: It doesn't work so well with a monkey |
| 06:02.14 | zid | If they walk over a gravity well, great |
| 06:02.25 | Amarande | you know, it comes to my thought that this ilvl thing is a *badly thought out idea8 |
| 06:02.26 | zid | but we don't care about positioning them |
| 06:02.39 | Amarande | why did Blizzard include them, anyway? It always seems like caving in to the gearscore lovers |
| 06:02.40 | Dagmar | it was bloody easy once we had two void zones down and made everyone run through them |
| 06:03.07 | zid | Amarande: It was to appease the 'fucktards keep queing for heroics' mentality, which is even more important, imo |
| 06:03.12 | Amarande | although if this popularity number is what I think it is, something like 10+% of the WoW player base uses GS |
| 06:03.12 | DWSR | Amarande: Because it allows them to make stat budgets. |
| 06:03.18 | Adys | zid: wrong |
| 06:03.28 | Amarande | which means a HUGE loss of money if they turn their back on GS users |
| 06:03.29 | Adys | Amarande: because if they didnt, gearscore would have still been all over the place |
| 06:03.34 | DWSR | ilvl x (some magical forumla) = rating on gear. |
| 06:03.35 | zid | I don't want people who don't have a few dungeon blues queueing for heroics |
| 06:03.45 | Amarande | zid, DWSR: there's a downside to it though |
| 06:04.01 | zid | ilvl is a retarded metric for a player's skill, and at high levels, even gear |
| 06:04.01 | DWSR | Can't see one. |
| 06:04.02 | Adys | zid: the character ilvl has always been there. |
| 06:04.05 | zid | but for queing for heroics? it's fine |
| 06:04.14 | Amarande | because it's difficult for a long time to fill in all your slots with enough 333 (and quest 325 blues) to qualify for HCs with gear that is actually appropriate to your spec |
| 06:04.15 | DWSR | zid: because gear=skill bro. |
| 06:04.18 | Adys | zid: in cata its just shown now. but before you couldnt queue for hcs if you had shit gear |
| 06:04.20 | Dagmar | zid: Hell they don't want people with a LOT of blues queueing for heroics |
| 06:04.24 | DWSR | Amarande: Not really. |
| 06:04.30 | DWSR | I hit 85 and was good for heroics. |
| 06:04.34 | DWSR | literally the same time. |
| 06:04.36 | zid | wow, you asshole |
| 06:04.49 | Amarande | DWSR: The result is that most people are often forced to take gear that isn't appropriate for spec because it has the ilvl they need |
| 06:04.49 | zid | I did 11 HoO runs and didn't get any of my 33 chances at a drop, so couldn't do heroics |
| 06:04.52 | zid | I had to buy JP gear |
| 06:05.07 | Amarande | it also punishes people for selling/DEing their quest greens they don't need because those can count |
| 06:05.16 | Adys | zid: do a few quests, get one or two pvp/jc pieces, get some rep |
| 06:05.17 | Adys | you're done |
| 06:05.23 | zid | pvp? fuck off >_< |
| 06:05.24 | Dagmar | Amarande: They can count against you |
| 06:05.34 | DWSR | ^ |
| 06:05.39 | Amarande | Dagmar: I thought it only took your best item for each slot? |
| 06:05.40 | Dagmar | Amarande: Being that the limit is 329 and I've not seen any greens higher than 318, greens ain' helpin |
| 06:05.59 | zid | There is *no* way I'm wearing pvp gear to meet an ilvl check |
| 06:06.04 | Dagmar | Amarane: What makes matters worse is if you get a blue and it's a lower item level than your green, the _blue's lower level_ is used |
| 06:06.10 | zid | or anything that isn't plate |
| 06:06.17 | Adys | zid: why the fuck not? |
| 06:06.22 | zid | Adys: I'm a protection warrior |
| 06:06.24 | Dagmar | I watched my average item level go _down_ from getting a blue 312 belt |
| 06:06.26 | Amarande | And I actually made 329 with still a 318 piece, probably because it was balanced by the 346 blue ring from Therazane revered |
| 06:06.32 | Adys | "so?" |
| 06:06.39 | Adys | 352 pvp gear is a lot better than 318 greens. |
| 06:06.41 | Adys | even as prot warrior |
| 06:06.41 | zid | Adys: You want your tank in cloth and pvp gear? |
| 06:06.42 | Amarande | Dagmar: there's also if you're a 264 raider going into Cata to start out with |
| 06:06.54 | zid | Adys: I was wearing 325 and 308 blues |
| 06:07.01 | zid | except for 2 greens |
| 06:07.01 | Dagmar | Amarande: You're not going in there with T9 man |
| 06:07.08 | Dagmar | You'll get seriously k-k-killed |
| 06:07.15 | Amarande | I'm talking about ICC10H gear, going into VP and SC. |
| 06:07.18 | zid | My T10.5 was useless :D |
| 06:07.22 | Adys | zid: as prot, a 352 pvp blue is better than a 308 blue. also you know you can reforge 40% of the resilience right |
| 06:07.24 | Dagmar | Amarnde: Even that will get you killed. |
| 06:07.29 | Amarande | The Vashj'ir greens ARE NOT upgrades. |
| 06:07.34 | Dagmar | Amarande: Dude I have 97,000 hit points on my _hunter_ |
| 06:07.35 | Amarande | But you have to take them anyway because the ilvl is higher. |
| 06:07.49 | Dagmar | Let's see your raiding ICC tank beat that |
| 06:07.59 | Dagmar | ICC gear don't stack that high |
| 06:08.04 | zid | Dagmar: I have 49k hp naked :) |
| 06:08.12 | Amarande | What I'm seeing is that the first few sets of quest upgrades tend to give more Stamina, but less DPS stat |
| 06:08.16 | zid | 144k in gear, 180k buffed |
| 06:08.28 | Dagmar | Amarande: Yeah they were definitely throwing my crit rating into the wastebasket |
| 06:08.37 | Amarande | unless DPS stats are actually down-prioritized now vs. Stamina, even for PvE |
| 06:08.39 | zid | crit is useful on a class at low gear levels? |
| 06:08.40 | Dagmar | I went from 56% to freaking 14% |
| 06:08.49 | Amarande | Used to be that Stamina was a stat you didn't want to focus on at all unless you were a tank or PvPing |
| 06:08.59 | Dagmar | Now you get Stamina whether you like it or not |
| 06:09.04 | zid | certainly not useful for warriors :( |
| 06:09.17 | Amarande | zid: a lot of classes have talents/glyphs that need a critical strike to trigger |
| 06:09.30 | Dagmar | Yep |
| 06:09.41 | Dagmar | Some of my hunter buffs that triggered that way were pretty much guaranteed 100% uptime |
| 06:09.41 | zid | does the free slam need a crit? |
| 06:10.08 | zid | The way rage works now, warriors want hit rating and nothing else until like 340 GS |
| 06:10.11 | Amarande | however, it seems like EVERYTHING revolves around the new healer mechanics now |
| 06:10.16 | Amarande | which means that EVERYONE needs to put HP first |
| 06:10.24 | DWSR | no. |
| 06:10.29 | DWSR | It means everyone needs to not be a dumbass. |
| 06:10.32 | Dagmar | That's good because the gear sure as hell takes care of it. |
| 06:10.32 | DWSR | And avoid avoidable damage. |
| 06:10.48 | Amarande | because it seems that the whole paradigm is that you need to be able to take at least 1-2 fairly major hits (really, is there a such thing as a non-major hit in cata?) without being healed, since healers can't afford to top people off. |
| 06:10.50 | zid | I love this place btw |
| 06:10.50 | Dagmar | You need hit rating if you ain't healing, and with reforging that's not really a problem either |
| 06:10.56 | zid | we're having actual real discussions |
| 06:11.04 | zid | Not found anywhere like that to talk about wow before now |
| 06:11.11 | Amarande | zid: Hit till cap is always a priority for classes that attack |
| 06:11.24 | Dagmar | zid: Try not to let Amarande's "the sky is falling and nerfing everyone" fits bother you. ;) |
| 06:11.30 | DWSR | Amarande: lolnot. |
| 06:11.32 | zid | Dagmar: The sky IS falling |
| 06:11.39 | Amarande | I am quite certain that there is never a class for which any other DPS stat is ever better than hit until you have hit the hit cap. |
| 06:11.42 | Dagmar | zid: Nah, it's just sagging a little |
| 06:11.47 | DWSR | Amarande: Akshully. |
| 06:11.50 | Amarande | Or at least the soft hit cap in the case of dual wield builds. |
| 06:11.51 | DWSR | lolDKs and strength. |
| 06:11.51 | Dagmar | Amarande: You would be dead wrong. |
| 06:12.12 | DWSR | Strength for DKs beats hit. |
| 06:12.17 | Amarande | DWSR: depends on build. |
| 06:12.17 | DWSR | every time. |
| 06:12.18 | Dagmar | Amarande: Before Wrath as a BM hunter you could ignore hit and just pour on attack power like there was no tomorrow |
| 06:12.19 | DWSR | No. |
| 06:12.20 | zid | warrior is the only class I know that has the best returns from hit by a noticeable margin |
| 06:12.36 | Dagmar | You could very EASILY obtain another 20% attack power for the same gear cost of the 8% hit |
| 06:12.37 | zid | becuase of white -> rage conversion |
| 06:12.59 | Dagmar | It doesn't matter if you miss 5% of the time if you hit a good 15% harder every time you hit |
| 06:12.59 | Amarande | I think it counterbalances as Frost because Frost actually has some stuff that technically needs the SPELL hit cap if I recall, which means the 8% hit is also cutting the miss chance for Howling Blast and such in half. |
| 06:13.16 | DWSR | No. |
| 06:13.21 | DWSR | No. |
| 06:13.22 | DWSR | No. |
| 06:13.49 | mckenziemc | maybe? |
| 06:13.53 | DWSR | Strength beats /everything/ for DKs. Every time. |
| 06:13.59 | DWSR | No matter how close to the cap you are. |
| 06:14.20 | Dagmar | It's looking like DK's benefit from strength a huge amount more than normal |
| 06:14.24 | Amarande | DWSR: that's possibly the only exception, then. |
| 06:14.28 | DWSR | It's not. |
| 06:14.33 | DWSR | rogues and possibly hunters. |
| 06:14.37 | Amarande | Dagmar: that's because they have buffs that give a percentage increase to Strength |
| 06:14.48 | Amarande | Pillar of Frost, and the Fallen Crusader rune proc |
| 06:15.29 | Dagmar | DWSR: possibly hunters for what? I saw something in bluetext about strength and hunters the other day that I thought was just snark |
| 06:15.41 | DWSR | Dagmar: Agi beating hit. |
| 06:15.50 | Dagmar | Ah, yeah very likely |
| 06:15.55 | Amarande | hmm. trying to remember now |
| 06:16.06 | Dagmar | I only did enough number crunching to figure out I needed haste before mastery |
| 06:16.09 | Amarande | whether hunters have some sort of damage buff that gives +%Agi |
| 06:16.15 | zid | my mastery is fucking weird |
| 06:16.21 | Dagmar | Everything else is pretty much proscribed by hte gear you have available |
| 06:16.29 | DWSR | http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t110134-assassination_guide_cata/#Stats_and_Gearing |
| 06:16.34 | Amarande | Dagmar: yeah mastery sucks for quite a number of classes |
| 06:16.39 | Dagmar | You stack agility as high as you can, you get stamina whether you like it or not, and you reforge crit into hit until you're at cap |
| 06:16.42 | Amarande | Frost 2H DK, for instance, haste > mastery |
| 06:16.50 | DWSR | lol 2h. |
| 06:16.51 | zid | I need weird levels of combined dodge + parry before mastery is cheaper damage removal, and parry and dodge are on differing diminishing return curves |
| 06:16.55 | DWSR | You're so bad if you use 2h. |
| 06:16.55 | Dagmar | ...since you can't reforge anything into agility (damnit) |
| 06:17.00 | zid | you have to bust out some polynomials to figure out if you need mastery |
| 06:17.02 | Amarande | DWSR: they made it viable for cata finally |
| 06:17.08 | Dagmar | zid: lol |
| 06:17.17 | DWSR | 10% lower damage. |
| 06:17.18 | Amarande | frost mages are viable now too |
| 06:17.24 | zid | AND parry procs a 10% shield block chance |
| 06:17.24 | Dagmar | zid: Almost... With hunters at least it's easy. "This stat makes your pet more awesome" |
| 06:17.31 | Amarande | however, my raid leader has been making noises that he would like me to become a tank |
| 06:17.33 | zid | Dagmar: I hate you :P |
| 06:17.38 | Adys | Amarande: mages have a pretty low dps over all specs atm |
| 06:17.44 | Adys | which is fucking annoying |
| 06:17.47 | Amarande | so frost 2H might be something I only use for soloing and heroic pugs eventually anyway |
| 06:17.48 | zid | Adys: depends, I saw one top the meters on magmaw |
| 06:17.53 | zid | 23k dps average |
| 06:17.55 | Amarande | (I *really don't* want to tank heroic pugs) |
| 06:18.03 | zid | Amarande: nobody does, with any brains |
| 06:18.03 | Adys | zodspec? |
| 06:18.06 | Adys | zid: spec? |
| 06:18.07 | zid | fire |
| 06:18.13 | Adys | yea |
| 06:18.23 | zid | arcane's best reported dps on magmaw is 18k |
| 06:18.25 | Amarande | also, I keep seeming to end up with tank gear, so maybe I will give in and become a tank |
| 06:18.35 | zid | Amarande: I don't think you'll be able to hack it :P |
| 06:18.40 | Adys | yeah, and frost's? =/ |
| 06:18.40 | zid | tanks aren't created, they're born |
| 06:18.46 | zid | Adys: 6dps |
| 06:18.49 | Amarande | zid: I did decently well as a prot pally in BC |
| 06:19.00 | zid | prot pallies were OP as fuck :P |
| 06:19.13 | Dagmar | zid: Honestly I've been eyeing the idea of an addon that simply changes the word "mastery" to "awesome" in the interfae |
| 06:19.21 | zid | Dagmar: Do it, do it now. |
| 06:19.21 | Amarande | and okayish on my DK in a couple instances in LK, but that was tanking original LK heroics in ICC gear, and I still felt like the mechanics handled like a shopping cart |
| 06:19.22 | Dagmar | I know for some paladins, mastery barely makes any sense |
| 06:19.28 | zid | Dagmar: I recommend "betterness" |
| 06:19.33 | Amarande | tank is my least favorite role, though. |
| 06:19.44 | zid | Amarande: because its rewards scale with skill |
| 06:19.48 | Dagmar | zid: Yeah but I've got doubts about what Blizzard might say about that. Affecting the WoW "experience" and all that |
| 06:19.52 | zid | the better you tank, the more fun it is |
| 06:19.58 | zid | bad tanking = mobs everywhere, no fun |
| 06:20.00 | Dagmar | ...but if you're BM, mastery basically is awesomeness |
| 06:20.15 | Dagmar | A shame it's per number, about the least damn useful stat |
| 06:20.18 | zid | I have a 73 BM hunter |
| 06:20.27 | zid | I should finish him |
| 06:20.29 | Amarande | yeah my BM hunter is 74 |
| 06:20.31 | Dagmar | I'm nowhere near the freaking hit cap |
| 06:20.31 | zid | I hate levelling through wotlk |
| 06:20.34 | Dagmar | er HASTE cap |
| 06:20.35 | Amarande | I need to ding so she can get cata alchemy and LW |
| 06:20.38 | Dagmar | hit cap I have down |
| 06:20.43 | zid | Dagmar: My hunter is hit capped :) |
| 06:20.46 | zid | has been since like level 10 |
| 06:20.52 | Amarande | I have a zillion stacks of mats stored up for her |
| 06:21.00 | Dagmar | zid: Dude even after they nerfed Volley you're an unstoppable force of nature as BM |
| 06:21.03 | zid | I just pick whatever has the most +hit, then one-hit-kill everything with kill command |
| 06:21.19 | zid | kill command was one shotting raptors in STV when it crit |
| 06:21.21 | zid | not even joking |
| 06:21.27 | Amarande | zid: that kind of sucks. |
| 06:21.30 | Dagmar | Zid: Granted, now you have to step back and spam Multishot and then pop that viper thing to get focus back in a lump, but you're still damn near unkillable |
| 06:21.39 | zid | I don't have the focus aspect |
| 06:21.41 | Amarande | remember, you don't get xp or loot when that happens :) |
| 06:21.44 | zid | I have the +60 focus skill |
| 06:21.48 | zid | and bestial wrath |
| 06:21.50 | mckenziemc | krka: i found an alternative (well, variation) to pack that would actually work better for what i wanted :p |
| 06:21.53 | Dagmar | I should hope you don't have that aspect. They took it out. |
| 06:22.01 | zid | isn't it called fox now? |
| 06:22.06 | Dagmar | Yeah the +60 focus skill you will find is a free ride to spam DPS |
| 06:22.18 | Dagmar | No, fox is basically for PvP and shooting on the run |
| 06:22.20 | zid | I like my rapid fire bestial wrath hotkey |
| 06:22.44 | Dagmar | Focus basically stops being an issue with that aspect, but it's only useful as an alternative to standing still and dying or running out of focus |
| 06:22.45 | zid | I keep accidently pressing focus fire though, someone told me it benefits my pet to have his stack moreso than me 10% haste |
| 06:23.08 | Dagmar | zid: You wanna cash in those charges at 5 stacks. the button lights up and everything. |
| 06:23.14 | zid | Dagmar: not under BR |
| 06:23.24 | zid | under BR the pet muliplies the awesomeness of the stacks better than I do |
| 06:23.24 | Amarande | Dagmar: depends on what you're doing, I'm guessing |
| 06:23.30 | Dagmar | BR? |
| 06:23.35 | zid | BW* |
| 06:23.38 | Dagmar | Amarande: Deperately seeking more haste, basically |
| 06:23.39 | Amarande | as soon as the mob dies (when soloing) you want to because the stacks drop off so quickly. |
| 06:23.41 | zid | I was thinking it was rage it's wrath |
| 06:24.00 | zid | is it? fuck |
| 06:24.03 | zid | *wowhead* |
| 06:24.05 | Dagmar | Big red Mode |
| 06:24.07 | mckenziemc | wrath is the ability, rage is the talent that boosts the hunter while the skill is active, iirc |
| 06:24.08 | zid | yea, BRM |
| 06:24.22 | zid | Dagmar: add that to your addon |
| 06:24.34 | Dagmar | I'll have to look into that tho |
| 06:24.46 | zid | Make it do like DBM and flash up some text |
| 06:24.50 | zid | "BIG RED MODE ACTIVATED" |
| 06:24.54 | Dagmar | I've been cashing those in at five stacks. I never even considered that being BM that might add up better on the pet |
| 06:25.04 | Dagmar | zid: I use Segui for that |
| 06:25.05 | zid | Dagmar: only during BRM, I was told |
| 06:25.05 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-24-23-41-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 06:25.34 | zid | I imagine it's stupidly marginal |
| 06:26.04 | Dagmar | Wouldn't be the first time I've sat down to do a pile of math only to find that out |
| 06:26.07 | zid | someone farm 15k rep for me for my cloak plzkthx |
| 06:26.11 | Amarande | Dagmar: probably only better to cash in when in instances too |
| 06:26.24 | Amarande | soloing, taking away pet's DPS and adding to yours is just a good way to pull aggro |
| 06:26.26 | Dagmar | It never lights up outside of instances. |
| 06:26.29 | Dagmar | Stuff dies too fast. |
| 06:26.42 | Amarande | Dagmar: It sometimes does in places where I kill a lot of mobs in a row, or am soloing elites |
| 06:26.44 | zid | kill command = lol, there was a mob there? now there isn't. |
| 06:26.55 | Dagmar | My "rotation" outdoors is basically Hunter's Mark, send pet, Kill Command, Serpent Sting, ARCANE ARCANE ARCANE ARCANE |
| 06:26.59 | Amarande | (in which case, I REALLY don't want to activate Focus Fire, because soloing elites, one of the biggies is NOT pulling aggro off the pet) |
| 06:27.00 | Dagmar | DEAD mob. |
| 06:27.18 | zid | Dagmar: yea same, except I'm pre cata so I don't need to sting or do the extra 3 arcane shots :P |
| 06:27.19 | Dagmar | Meh get the misdirection glyph |
| 06:27.24 | Amarande | Also, Levixus is so very very annoying. Took two attempts at *73* if I recall. |
| 06:27.34 | zid | I can't get aggro off my pet :( |
| 06:27.48 | zid | kill command is just too good |
| 06:27.57 | Amarande | Mainly because with a pet, you have to burn him fast enough that he doesn't have a chance to get MC off |
| 06:28.05 | Amarande | otherwise, he'll MC you, you and he will kill your pet, and then he will reset. |
| 06:28.15 | zid | who is levixus? |
| 06:28.21 | Amarande | Not like the OTHER elites in Auchindoun area, which are cake. |
| 06:28.27 | Amarande | zid: elite guy at the south end of Auchindoun |
| 06:28.33 | zid | Is he for the final part of the chain |
| 06:28.41 | Amarande | around the end, yeah |
| 06:28.49 | Kraps | ahahah http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_T_JachDW9ag/TRAupcSYWpI/AAAAAAAAK84/ZUIFhG6Y6f4/s1600/1292891202168.jpg |
| 06:28.55 | Amarande | the other elites out there are cake, and often can be soloed at-level |
| 06:28.57 | zid | I see him on wowhead but I don't remember him specifically |
| 06:29.02 | zid | I probably just solo'd him as usual |
| 06:29.05 | zid | and didn't bat an eyelid |
| 06:29.18 | Amarande | Even the giant worm from the last Fumper quest is easily soloed if you know the trick, even though it seems impossible at first sight. |
| 06:29.49 | Amarande | I'm somewhat surprised they haven't found a way to nerf it. It's so cheap as to be kicking a kitten, practically. |
| 06:29.57 | zid | I was super proud of being able to solo durn :P |
| 06:30.15 | Amarande | Basically, the trick to that last worm is simple |
| 06:30.25 | Amarande | You need to kill the clefthoof as near as possible to the passage leading into Auchindoun. |
| 06:30.38 | Amarande | After that, the rest is easy. |
| 06:30.41 | zid | Amarande: I just solo'd it :/ |
| 06:30.45 | Arrowmaster | me too |
| 06:30.55 | zid | Playing a prot warrior has jaded me to how tough group quests are |
| 06:30.58 | Kraps | theres new Activision Vs. Infinity Ward stuff going on |
| 06:31.01 | zid | I just erm, kill them all |
| 06:31.03 | Amarande | Yeah, squishier classes may need the trick. |
| 06:31.10 | Arrowmaster | same except warlock |
| 06:31.16 | Amarande | Which is that the worm 1) has a ranged attack, and 2) cannot follow you into the passage leading to Auchindoun. |
| 06:31.24 | zid | even through wotlk I only didn't solo the bird near ysera |
| 06:31.24 | Amarande | A ranged attack WITH A CAST TIME. |
| 06:31.29 | Amarande | You can probably see where this is going. |
| 06:31.32 | Arrowmaster | i soloed almost all group quests in BC with affliction, and all in wrath with demonology |
| 06:31.55 | zid | I can't solo shit anymore, fuck you 4.0 :P |
| 06:31.56 | Amarande | You keep LoS'ing all his casts, and he can't evade because he *has* a ranged attack |
| 06:32.02 | Arrowmaster | zid: i soloed that one |
| 06:32.13 | Arrowmaster | took forever |
| 06:32.29 | zid | Arrowmaster: nice, it would be easier on a magic class that's for sure |
| 06:32.40 | Arrowmaster | from what i remember it hit hard |
| 06:32.48 | zid | it magics hard |
| 06:33.10 | Amarande | Dammit, they made the purple spiders in stormpeaks tamable |
| 06:33.11 | zid | things pretty much have to be hitting 5k in melee to stop a prot warrior soloing them |
| 06:33.11 | Arrowmaster | i did the big magentar thingy too |
| 06:33.17 | zid | unless they do magic damage |
| 06:33.21 | Amarande | I was kinda hoping such spiders would be a rarity for hunters |
| 06:33.32 | Amarande | (since without them, you pretty much have to get the ones from Naxx) |
| 06:34.12 | Arrowmaster | the magentar was funny, i had some many people come up to me while i was doing it and just stand there and bitch at me |
| 06:34.33 | Arrowmaster | since it took me like 15 minutes to kill it |
| 06:34.46 | Amarande | Arrow: shhh |
| 06:34.51 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 06:34.58 | Amarande | next thing you know they'll add enrage timers to world quest elites |
| 06:35.06 | zid | lol |
| 06:35.19 | Amarande | you know what's interesting is that enrage/berserk timers are almost uniquely an MMO mechanic |
| 06:35.36 | Amarande | There are barely any cases in solo RPGs where they exist, it seems |
| 06:35.51 | Adys | plenty of rpgs have combat timers. |
| 06:35.52 | Arrowmaster | i dont think they existed in older MMOs either |
| 06:35.53 | zid | well if you wanna waste 99 megalixirs, go ahead, imo :P |
| 06:36.00 | zid | KoL has 30 round fight limits |
| 06:36.17 | Amarande | Izbelah from Icewind Dale 2, Overdrive Sin from FFX, Margulis (only after he gets below 1/3 or so HP) in Xenosaga 2, the bonus boss in Persona 4, those are the main ones I can recall |
| 06:36.28 | zid | Odin FVIII count? |
| 06:36.34 | Amarande | Oh yeah, Odin! |
| 06:36.59 | Amarande | Actually, Xenosaga 2 had a lot of "can't drag out the fight too long" stuff, but that was more because of the pitiful effectiveness of heals in that game, plus the fact that bosses would get SUPER UBER at low HP |
| 06:37.09 | Amarande | I still remember how I died on space pope in that game the first time I tried it |
| 06:37.26 | Amarande | Tried to one-combo him. Ended up with him at 5500 HP or so ... at which point he starts breaking out all kinds of super nasty |
| 06:37.35 | Amarande | Think he was down to about 3000 when I finally gave up the ghost |
| 06:38.01 | mckenziemc | ~libstub |
| 06:38.01 | purl | from memory, libstub is a minimalistic versioning library that allows other libraries to easily register themselves and upgrade. It is meant to be a cross-community library sharing system. http://www.wowwiki.com/LibStub |
| 06:38.05 | zid | could you not heal him instead |
| 06:38.17 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (~snild@nurmijarvi.net) |
| 06:38.20 | Amarande | zid: bosses don't normally switch back to previous attack patterns if healed |
| 06:38.39 | Amarande | I think the only one that might is Satan from Digital Devil Saga 2, and if he DOES heal you're probably throwing the controller in disgust |
| 06:38.41 | Adys | purl: no, libstub is a minimalistic versioning library that allows other libraries to easily register themselves and upgrade. It is meant to be a cross-community library sharing system. http://wowpedia.org/LibStub |
| 06:38.41 | purl | okay, Adys |
| 06:38.59 | Amarande | Satan has 30k HP and if he gets a turn with less than 1.5k remaining he uses Diarahan. |
| 06:39.03 | Amarande | You might guess what that does. |
| 06:39.06 | zid | he shits on you |
| 06:39.24 | Amarande | It shows a number in green over his head. You might guess what that means, and what the number is. :) |
| 06:39.29 | Arrowmaster | purl, libstub =~ s/wowwiki.com/wowpedia.org/ |
| 06:39.29 | purl | that doesn't contain 'wowwiki.com', Arrowmaster |
| 06:39.38 | Arrowmaster | ~libstub |
| 06:39.38 | purl | [libstub] a minimalistic versioning library that allows other libraries to easily register themselves and upgrade. It is meant to be a cross-community library sharing system. http://wowpedia.org/LibStub |
| 06:39.42 | Amarande | "Satan has healed for 30000!" |
| 06:39.46 | Adys | Arrowmaster: i just changed it :p |
| 06:39.59 | Amarande | *sound of player's head hitting wall* |
| 06:39.59 | zid | wowwiki is a very oddly maintained wiki, btw |
| 06:40.08 | Adys | no kidding |
| 06:40.11 | Arrowmaster | zid: its not maintained |
| 06:40.24 | zid | some articles are amazing, then things you think'd be up to date, like stat mixes for gems aren't there |
| 06:40.30 | Amarande | zid: I never did get Odin in FFVIII, though |
| 06:40.35 | zid | I got every GF |
| 06:40.36 | zid | :> |
| 06:40.42 | Amarande | mostly because I kept having issues with the game freezing late in disc 2 |
| 06:40.48 | Amarande | and haven't restarted yet now that I have it on PSP |
| 06:40.50 | zid | I started a speedrun of FFIX to get excal 2 but never finished it :( |
| 06:40.52 | Arrowmaster | zid: the good articles are the old ones then |
| 06:40.57 | mckenziemc | if libx, rev 1 loads, then the file for libx, rev 2 loads, LibStub:NewLibrary will return the -old- table rather than an empty one, right? |
| 06:41.02 | Amarande | and you should only get Odin AFTER time compression begins |
| 06:41.08 | zid | why do that? |
| 06:41.11 | Arrowmaster | mckenziemc: yes |
| 06:41.12 | zid | get it with the seeD ship |
| 06:41.16 | zid | and get king tonberry too |
| 06:41.22 | Amarande | zid: because Gilgamesh for the Adel battle is really DO NOT WANT. |
| 06:41.28 | zid | I like gilgamesh :D |
| 06:41.31 | zid | I've done it both ways |
| 06:41.40 | zid | ZANTETSUKEN |
| 06:41.52 | Amarande | Gilgamesh can pretty literally get you defeated in that fight without even a chance for you to do anything about it. |
| 06:42.00 | zid | why? O_o |
| 06:42.04 | Amarande | Odin cannot, because, far as I recall he won't show up on bosses except for the one time with Seifer |
| 06:42.08 | zid | only thing that happens is seifer cuts him |
| 06:42.12 | Amarande | that's the one where you have to kill Adel and keep Rinoa (who has a LOT less HP) alive |
| 06:42.18 | zid | I know the game, yes |
| 06:42.20 | Amarande | Gilgamesh actually does all-hit damage when he appears, and that's bad |
| 06:42.22 | zid | it doesn't change the fight at all |
| 06:42.28 | zid | just does a cutscene |
| 06:42.40 | zid | he actually comes back and does damage if you let the fight go on long enough |
| 06:42.49 | Amarande | zid: I'm not talking about the Seifer kills him bit |
| 06:43.00 | Amarande | I'm talking about that if you wait till disc 4 to get Odin, you don't have to worry about Gilgamesh killing Rinoa by bad luck |
| 06:43.10 | zid | oh, that one |
| 06:43.13 | zid | you got unlucky then |
| 06:43.21 | zid | he should summon himself on the first seifer fight |
| 06:43.25 | zid | not the 2nd where rinoa is active |
| 06:43.31 | Amarande | yeah, that's what happens |
| 06:43.40 | Amarande | Odin comes on Seifer, gets cut in half, and you get Gilgamesh. |
| 06:43.43 | zid | just load up if you don't get gilgamesh first? |
| 06:43.47 | Amarande | Who is then able to show up randomly like Odin did. |
| 06:43.59 | Amarande | Adel comes AFTER that, so you'll have Gilgamesh for HER, and that's what you don't want. |
| 06:44.14 | zid | I never had it happen, how long were you taking to do that fight? :P |
| 06:44.18 | zid | you know you can heal her right? |
| 06:44.21 | Amarande | zid: I never got that far. :) |
| 06:44.23 | zid | he shouldn't oneshot her |
| 06:44.27 | Amarande | I'm told Gilgamesh can one-shot her, though |
| 06:44.34 | zid | if you suck, maybe |
| 06:44.36 | Amarande | I got to near the end of disc 2 |
| 06:44.44 | zid | all my characters had 9999hp and hit for 9999hp at that point |
| 06:44.53 | Amarande | then every time I tried to do that bit where you have to do the fighting minigame with the Galbadian soldier |
| 06:44.58 | Amarande | the PS2 would freeze |
| 06:45.02 | zid | pisstwo! |
| 06:45.06 | zid | There's your problem |
| 06:45.07 | Amarande | looked at the discs, but I didn't see anything wrong |
| 06:45.16 | zid | T-cut it, and use a real PSX :) |
| 06:45.17 | Amarande | and it didn't seem to be a known reported bug with PS2 |
| 06:45.23 | zid | T-cut rules for fixing discs btw |
| 06:45.44 | zid | I got my FFX disc from not playing ANY cutscene without stuttering, and hanging on 3 different cutscenes |
| 06:45.47 | zid | to playing perfectly |
| 06:45.56 | Amarande | There weren't any visible scratches or such on the disc, though |
| 06:46.07 | mckenziemc | zid: |
| 06:46.08 | mckenziemc | ~ps3 |
| 06:46.09 | purl | It's called the PS3 because you turn 3 pi radians and walk away. |
| 06:46.11 | Amarande | Now I have it on PSP from PSN, though. |
| 06:46.16 | Amarande | So I don't have to worry about discs at all. |
| 06:46.19 | Jerub | hah |
| 06:46.23 | mckenziemc | hehe |
| 06:46.28 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 06:46.37 | zid | I wish people would stop uploading rare games in PSN format |
| 06:46.42 | airtonix | congrats $hirik |
| 06:47.05 | Amarande | I wish they'd add Shin Megami Tensei 2 to the Japanese import section on PSN |
| 06:47.06 | zid | It'll be like OMG NOBODY CAN STOP MR DOMINO, "Oh wait, [PSP-Converted]" FUUUUU |
| 06:47.16 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-242-190-122.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 06:47.22 | zid | I want that game but still haven't found the iso anywhere |
| 06:47.25 | airtonix | lol consoles |
| 06:47.29 | Amarande | I was like squee, imports. Then I notice there aren't any GOOD ones. |
| 06:47.54 | Amarande | And the fact that I'm interested in SMT2 should dispel any of you people thinking I want games to be easy or think WoW is too hard or something. |
| 06:48.03 | zid | I've finished iwbtg |
| 06:48.05 | Amarande | It should tell that when I complain about mechanics, it's *those specific mechanics* that are grinding my gears. :) |
| 06:48.08 | zid | and ascended nethack 13 times |
| 06:48.12 | zid | think I can handle hard? |
| 06:48.23 | Amarande | SMT2 is brutal, more brutal than the most brutal things in this world. LK25H doesn't hold a candle to it really. |
| 06:48.26 | airtonix | no |
| 06:48.45 | zid | If nethack isn't hard, I must not hang around in the right crowds :/ |
| 06:48.49 | Jerub | zid: really? like, really really? ascended 13 times? |
| 06:48.50 | Amarande | (Also, when are we ever going to get to have Kushiel as a party member again in a SMT. :D) |
| 06:48.59 | zid | Jerub: yes |
| 06:49.07 | zid | I'm shit at nethack too |
| 06:49.08 | airtonix | that is unlucky |
| 06:49.11 | zid | ivan did 13 /in a row/ |
| 06:49.12 | Jerub | zid: i worked on the TAEB for a while. i'm impressed by anyone with the focus required to ascend. |
| 06:49.18 | Amarande | He was a Seraph type in SMT2 and hasn't appeared since. |
| 06:49.25 | Jerub | i get sloppy and die in nethack |
| 06:49.33 | zid | Just play a valk |
| 06:49.41 | zid | I make it my goal to play sloppy when i'm bored |
| 06:49.47 | Amarande | zid: that tends to lead to YASD |
| 06:49.51 | zid | Step 1. Start a valk Step 2. Drink/read anything you find |
| 06:49.56 | zid | valks are UNKILLABLE |
| 06:50.02 | airtonix | so your a hunter |
| 06:50.06 | airtonix | lololololol |
| 06:50.10 | airtonix | :( |
| 06:50.12 | Amarande | zid: I bet you get YASD on the first level on your next valk. :) |
| 06:50.16 | zid | Who my hunter? |
| 06:50.23 | zid | Amarande: I couldn't if I tried :( |
| 06:50.24 | Jerub | zid: yeah, but i don't have the focus required to Elbereth in bad situations and stuff |
| 06:50.24 | airtonix | you're |
| 06:50.26 | zid | I did, I got a wish instead |
| 06:50.35 | zid | I killed 4 water demons |
| 06:50.42 | Amarande | Jerub: That reminds me ... |
| 06:50.54 | Amarande | Diablo 2 had El, Ber, and Eth among their runes, but they never made a runeword with those three. That's odd. |
| 06:50.56 | zid | valks can kill water demons at xlvl1 with no problems :( |
| 06:50.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Gagorian (~k@104-172.turkunet.fi) |
| 06:51.12 | Jerub | zid: have you seen TAEB? |
| 06:51.14 | Amarande | Not that anyone but RMT kids would have gotten said runeword even if they had. :( |
| 06:51.18 | Jerub | ownders if it's active. |
| 06:51.21 | zid | Jerub: was it eidolos who started that? |
| 06:51.27 | Jerub | i think he was involved |
| 06:51.31 | zid | iirc it was written in perl |
| 06:51.33 | Amarande | I wonder if Diablo 3 is going to have issues with runes being that stupidly rare that the whole hack/dupe/RMT thing will start up again |
| 06:51.34 | zid | so I never touched it |
| 06:51.46 | Jerub | it's the only perl program i've ever worked on |
| 06:52.00 | zid | If they don't use WoW's drop mechanics for diablo 3 they're retarded, Amarande |
| 06:52.03 | Amarande | You know, maybe people wouldn't have duped all those Zods, if it wasn't for the fact that the chances of getting one off even the mob that drops them the most are worse than winning some state lotteries |
| 06:52.38 | Jerub | zid: TAEB's biggest problems are around the synchronsation. |
| 06:52.51 | Amarande | And if you tried to tell people NOT to ebay, you got called a noob. |
| 06:52.51 | Jerub | zid: figuring out when the output ends so you can do your next move |
| 06:53.05 | Amarande | You were practically expected to spend real money if you wanted to be considered good in D2. |
| 06:53.13 | zid | Jerub: That's not the biggest problem it has :P |
| 06:53.29 | zid | The biggest problem is that it's crap at nethack |
| 06:53.49 | Amarande | I also remember rumors that Blizzard was deliberately letting the duping and botting happen as a way of trying to make people move on from D2 to monthly-fee WoW, but ... |
| 06:53.50 | Jerub | ;) |
| 06:53.52 | Jerub | that's true |
| 06:54.22 | zid | TAEB should just implement the RNG hax |
| 06:54.25 | Amarande | Well, that and it was arguably in their best interest to let it happen and ban afterwards than to stop it from happening, since the only way D2 made money was when people bought the game. |
| 06:54.27 | zid | and win every game |
| 06:54.42 | Amarande | If people could bot, they could ban them, forcing them to purchase a new copy. |
| 06:55.00 | Jerub | zid: :P |
| 06:55.07 | Amarande | If they sealed the holes in a years-old game, it would cost development money AND people wouldn't be able to do things that would result in them having to buy the game again :P |
| 06:55.09 | zid | I forget that guy's name now :( |
| 06:55.12 | Jerub | zid: it doesn't need to. you just run it many times in parallel |
| 06:55.15 | zid | He plays dwarf fortress a lot |
| 06:55.24 | Amarande | So went the argument, at least. |
| 06:55.31 | zid | Jerub: Why bother, if you can just add 50 lines of code to make it win every game? :P |
| 06:55.34 | zid | You can run THAT in parallel |
| 06:55.34 | Jerub | :P |
| 06:55.35 | Amarande | I don't know if Blizzard would sink that low. (Activision, on the other hand ...) |
| 06:56.05 | Shirik | uhhhhh |
| 06:56.10 | Shirik | http://images.gammatester.com/pics/ca17a7b3e50ecb98727675d015a9ce1d.png |
| 06:56.14 | Shirik | Where is the "NO NOT OK" button? |
| 06:56.38 | zid | lol |
| 06:56.49 | zid | It should be the rage face Okay |
| 06:57.06 | zid | http://philosophistry.com/scans/2010/okay-face.jpg |
| 06:57.20 | zid | also, holy crap that title bar is ugly |
| 06:57.47 | zid | realms are up already? O_o |
| 06:57.49 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy|lap (~stolenleg@193.170.222.163) |
| 06:58.19 | Jerub | realms were down? |
| 06:58.22 | zid | in EU yea |
| 06:58.25 | Jerub | oh right |
| 06:58.31 | Jerub | we didn't have US maintenance last night, just rolling restarts |
| 06:58.37 | zid | org is teh empties |
| 06:58.49 | Jerub | you have org in EU? |
| 06:58.49 | zid | I've seen.. a person, so far :P |
| 06:58.58 | zid | The hell did you think we'd have? |
| 06:59.02 | Amarande | "This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down. Please click OK to accept that you are about to fail your school paper because you now don't have the time to redo the part since you last saved." |
| 06:59.06 | mckenziemc | a person, or an orc? |
| 06:59.15 | zid | mckenziemc: A tauren |
| 06:59.19 | mckenziemc | lol amarande |
| 06:59.30 | Jerub | Amarande: dropboxlol |
| 06:59.36 | zid | I'm interested to know what EU would have instead of org |
| 06:59.44 | Jerub | zid: i dunno. UC? |
| 06:59.52 | Jerub | :P |
| 06:59.53 | Jerub | i jest |
| 07:00.06 | zid | I have realm firsts on an american realm |
| 07:00.15 | zid | playing EU for the past couple of years |
| 07:00.49 | zid | Therazane dailies time |
| 07:01.03 | zid | then I whine about pristine hide prices, and beg people to give me 14k rep |
| 07:01.34 | airtonix | sorry |
| 07:01.42 | airtonix | i lost interest, what were we talking about ? |
| 07:01.59 | zid | nothing, with you |
| 07:02.04 | Jerub | # Conjuring refreshments no longer count toward achievements like Set the Oven to "Cataclysmic" and Time To Open A Restaurant. |
| 07:02.36 | zid | apparently I should be mining, seen loads of ore |
| 07:02.58 | zid | they need to un-fix deepholm's ore veins |
| 07:06.27 | zid | I've not seen a rare in cata yet I just realized |
| 07:06.58 | mckenziemc | i have |
| 07:07.06 | mckenziemc | somebody else killed it though |
| 07:07.20 | mckenziemc | Blazewing iirc. giant hippogryph in hyjal |
| 07:09.23 | zid | wat, why is deepholm not on the list of zones on wowhead |
| 07:09.37 | airtonix | thats a question |
| 07:09.39 | airtonix | for |
| 07:09.41 | airtonix | #wowhead |
| 07:09.45 | zid | ah, cool |
| 07:09.51 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-76-116-64-179.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 07:14.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Andune (~morganm@99-150-252-94.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 07:20.37 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzio (~zenzio__@85.19.77.194) |
| 07:22.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@pool013.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 07:22.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (~elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 07:27.13 | mckenziemc | it's kinda said that i had to search my addon's files to make sure i didn't misspell 'default' anywhere |
| 07:27.29 | mckenziemc | ever since i switched to dvorak, i always seem to transpose the a and u |
| 07:27.46 | mckenziemc | kinda sad* : / |
| 07:28.42 | Adys | http://www.labandepasdessinee.com/bpd/wp-content/uploads/360-taches.png |
| 07:28.57 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-76-116-64-179.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 07:28.58 | Adys | kinda sud |
| 07:30.14 | mckenziemc | i don't know french : ( |
| 07:35.20 | Elkano | lucky you :( I was forced to it in school :( |
| 07:35.55 | Elkano | (I still don't get the joke due to some missing entries in my internal dictonary for french ;) ) |
| 07:35.55 | Arrowmaster | me too, kinda |
| 07:36.05 | Arrowmaster | except i didnt take french |
| 07:36.11 | airtonix | you took |
| 07:36.14 | airtonix | greek love |
| 07:36.20 | Arrowmaster | spanish |
| 07:36.30 | airtonix | i would much prefer french love |
| 07:36.30 | Arrowmaster | which i dont remember any of except the very basics |
| 07:42.03 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo (~mojosdojo@p4FEFF8D3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:44.58 | mckenziemc | sylvanaar_work: clientWorkspace = workspace ~= false and {} or workspace |
| 07:46.16 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-76-116-64-179.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 07:46.20 | mckenziemc | ^ 10 brownie points if anyone can figure out what that does |
| 07:47.30 | unfo- | clientWorkspace gets assigned a clean {} or the workspace if it is assigned |
| 07:48.06 | taroven | Actually... |
| 07:48.50 | taroven | if workspace == false then clientWorkspace = false else clientWorkspace = {} end |
| 07:48.54 | airtonix | activates skynet? |
| 07:49.30 | unfo- | i think that orig. line is too clever for its own sake |
| 07:49.41 | mckenziemc | unfo- you're close but not quite |
| 07:49.52 | taroven | Funny quirk to that is if workspace == nil, clientWorkspace still gets an empty table assigned. |
| 07:50.20 | mckenziemc | technical issue with your explanation |
| 07:51.29 | Adys | Elkano: "Okay, I'll show you shapes and you'll tell me what you see. Let's do it." "A spot!" "Yes, but inside the spot?" "Another spot!" "And here?" "ANOTHER SPOT!!!" "SPOTS EVERYWHERE! AAAAHHH!!!" |
| 07:51.34 | Adys | Mr. Clean at the psychiatrist ^ |
| 07:51.49 | unfo- | Mr. Clean? |
| 07:51.54 | taroven | mckenziemc: I'd prolly just evaluate it as "clientWorkspace = workspace or {}", but it really does depend on usage. |
| 07:51.59 | airtonix | Arch Nemsis of Mr Dirty |
| 07:52.10 | Adys | unfo-: http://a21.idata.over-blog.com/3/36/54/88/Mr-Propre.gif |
| 07:52.37 | Adys | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Clean that dude |
| 07:52.54 | krka | Shirik: yes |
| 07:52.55 | Adys | Monsieur Net, in Quebec French (Canada); haha |
| 07:52.58 | mckenziemc | tarovan: your first line is wrong for 7 and second line is wrong for false |
| 07:53.37 | taroven | mckenziemc: Wrong for 7? |
| 07:53.50 | krka | Shirik: well, they aren't technically unit tests i guess, but all tests i'm using are checked in on github / google code |
| 07:53.52 | taroven | lua> print(false or true) |
| 07:53.53 | lua_bot | taroven: true |
| 07:54.11 | taroven | mckenziemc: Proof enough on #2? =P |
| 07:56.07 | taroven | mckenziemc: Actually, hell, could just do it like this - clientWorkspace = not(workspace) and false or workspace |
| 07:56.39 | taroven | Or something... too tired to figure out what the heck you're trying to do there. |
| 07:56.40 | mckenziemc | lua> function f(v) return v~= false and {} or v end; function g(v) if v == false then return false else return {} end; function h(v) return workspace or {} end; return f(7), f(false), g(7), g(false), h(7), h(false) |
| 07:56.40 | lua_bot | mckenziemc: luabot:1: 'end' expected near '<eof>' |
| 07:57.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker (~ponies@87.114.103.44) |
| 07:57.14 | mckenziemc | function f(v) return v~= false and {} or v end; function g(v) if v == false then return false else return {} end end; function h(v) return workspace or {} end; return f(7), f(false), g(7), g(false), h(7), h(false) |
| 07:57.19 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuohep@89.222.156.36) |
| 07:57.20 | mckenziemc | doh |
| 07:57.27 | taroven | Helps to have prints =P |
| 07:57.30 | mckenziemc | lua> function f(v) return v~= false and {} or v end; function g(v) if v == false then return false else return {} end end; function h(v) return workspace or {} end; return f(7), f(false), g(7), g(false), h(7), h(false) |
| 07:57.30 | lua_bot | mckenziemc: table: 0x9a3fc88, false, table: 0x9a57198, false, table: 0x9a571c0, table: 0x9a571e8 |
| 07:58.00 | mckenziemc | sec |
| 07:58.24 | taroven | Try a couple of those with nil instead of false and you might be surprised. |
| 07:58.26 | mckenziemc | print would just replace the return and i'd have to add paretheses |
| 07:58.48 | taroven | Easier way would just be to replace {} with "foo" or something. |
| 07:58.49 | mckenziemc | middle one gave unexpected result |
| 07:58.57 | mckenziemc | good point |
| 08:00.00 | taroven | lua> print(nil == false) |
| 08:00.01 | lua_bot | taroven: false |
| 08:00.20 | mckenziemc | aw shucks i messed up my line |
| 08:00.25 | taroven | Generally a good idea to account for stuff like that. |
| 08:00.26 | airtonix | replaces taroven with foo |
| 08:00.46 | taroven | Aww, /nick didn't feel like working. |
| 08:01.52 | airtonix | You know there is a Black Rock Mountain in Fallout New Vegas |
| 08:02.07 | airtonix | Full of super mutants |
| 08:06.11 | mckenziemc | 'workspace or workspace ~= false and {}' is what the original line was supposed to be, but it's pretty easy to figure out |
| 08:06.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@fibhost-66-83-191.fibernet.hu) |
| 08:06.45 | mckenziemc | so you were right about what i actually posted (i assume, didn't actually check :p) |
| 08:07.08 | mckenziemc | i messed up the short-circuit evaluation for the or |
| 08:07.53 | airtonix | so it's not a real terniary? |
| 08:08.28 | mckenziemc | this isn't actually what i'm gonna use in the code but i was trying to figure out how to do it inline as a mindgame |
| 08:08.37 | mckenziemc | took me a while and i still messed up >< |
| 08:08.45 | unfo- | you were being too clever :) |
| 08:09.15 | taroven | lua> x = function(a) return a or a~=false and "not false" end; return x(1), x(false), x(nil) |
| 08:09.16 | lua_bot | taroven: 1, false, not false |
| 08:09.38 | mckenziemc | 'if workspace == nil then workspace = {} end; clientWorkspace = workspace' is what i'm going to use |
| 08:09.40 | unfo- | someone wise someone said that if you code the most clever code you can manage and there is a bug, and debugging is twice as hard as coding, you are not going to be smart enough to debug it. paraphrasing horribly, but that was the gist of it |
| 08:09.44 | taroven | mckenziemc: Is that the output you want there? |
| 08:10.02 | unfo- | someone wise once * |
| 08:10.06 | mckenziemc | hehe |
| 08:10.19 | airtonix | luckily i'm a learning AI |
| 08:10.23 | mckenziemc | yeah taroven |
| 08:10.27 | airtonix | I have no limits |
| 08:10.54 | mckenziemc | it's fun to play around with put i try to keep my actual code very simple |
| 08:11.03 | mckenziemc | with stuff like that but* |
| 08:11.10 | taroven | mckenziemc: The good question is if you really want nil evaluating to an empty table while false evaluates to false. |
| 08:11.19 | mckenziemc | yes |
| 08:11.45 | mckenziemc | nil means 'give me a new table', anything else means 'use what i just have you' |
| 08:12.19 | mckenziemc | gave* |
| 08:12.20 | airtonix | mckenziemc, i just have you |
| 08:12.26 | mckenziemc | jeez i'm making a lot of typos |
| 08:12.27 | taroven | Well then, this should work perfectly: clientWorkspace = workspace == nil and {} or workspace |
| 08:12.46 | taroven | Takes a little work outta the whole thing. |
| 08:13.16 | mckenziemc | lua> workspace = 7; print(workspace == nil and {} or workspace) |
| 08:13.16 | lua_bot | mckenziemc: 7 |
| 08:13.52 | mckenziemc | i have no idea why i didn't see that |
| 08:13.56 | taroven | =P |
| 08:14.14 | taroven | Another good question is if non-table values are okay. |
| 08:14.25 | taroven | If not, you'll probably want some typing in there. |
| 08:14.37 | Fisker | i once killed a guy |
| 08:14.42 | mckenziemc | oh you know why... until i played around with lua_bot in tells, i forgot that 'or' will do short-circuit evaluation |
| 08:15.22 | mckenziemc | i had forgot about that and thought it would return the last value unless it was false/nil |
| 08:16.16 | mckenziemc | taroven: i put in documentation saying that a table is expected, but any value other then nil will get used |
| 08:16.43 | taroven | Depending on the expected contents you can do something cool there. |
| 08:16.48 | mckenziemc | if somebody wants to give my code something weird, it's up to them to deal with it properly |
| 08:18.31 | *** join/#wowuidev aualin (c20e46a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.14.70.168) |
| 08:18.32 | taroven | clientWorkspace = workspace == nil and {} or workspace == false and false or type(workspace)~='table' and {workspace} or workspace |
| 08:19.52 | taroven | clientWorkspace = (workspace == nil and {}) or (workspace == false and false) or (type(workspace)~='table' and {workspace}) or workspace -- Segmented version, first one prolly won't ever evaluate false. |
| 08:20.44 | taroven | At that point you might be better with an if/else. |
| 08:21.03 | mckenziemc | oh wait, your code -would- work whether or used short-circuit evaluation or not -- i completely failed to see that |
| 08:21.10 | mckenziemc | me 0 lua 3 |
| 08:21.14 | mckenziemc | ~lua++ |
| 08:21.21 | mckenziemc | ~karma lua |
| 08:21.21 | purl | lua has karma of 1 |
| 08:21.38 | mckenziemc | ouch, that makes me feel even worse : / |
| 08:21.46 | taroven | XD |
| 08:22.43 | taroven | Check those statements out though - Should provide the expected result with a bit of sanitizing included. You'll always get a table or false, though the table contents might not be usable as-is. |
| 08:23.25 | mckenziemc | yeah i don't want other types of values getting packaged -- i want to leave them as-is |
| 08:23.36 | mckenziemc | external code can do that if it wants |
| 08:23.41 | mckenziemc | itself |
| 08:24.05 | taroven | shrugs. |
| 08:24.43 | mckenziemc | i don't process the value at all aside from the nil substitution, it passes through untouched if it was already non-nil |
| 08:25.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~kalroth@mail1.retailplanit.com) |
| 08:28.45 | taroven | Eep. 3:30ish. |
| 08:29.00 | Kalroth | slacker! |
| 08:29.16 | taroven | Gotta be at work in 4 hours. D= |
| 08:29.21 | mckenziemc | sanity check: |
| 08:29.25 | mckenziemc | lua> function f(v) return v==nil and 'a' or v end; function g(v) if v == false then return false else return 'a' end end; function h(v) return workspace or 'a' end; return f(7), f(false), g(7), g(false), h(7), h(false) |
| 08:29.25 | lua_bot | mckenziemc: 7, false, a, false, a, a |
| 08:30.30 | Fisker | oh Kalroth Kalroth |
| 08:30.36 | Fisker | ~weather ekch |
| 08:30.41 | Kalroth | Fisker my love |
| 08:30.48 | Kalroth | brrrr |
| 08:30.58 | Fisker | brrrrrr indeed |
| 08:30.59 | mckenziemc | me .1, lua 3 |
| 08:31.33 | mckenziemc | ~weather krqr |
| 08:31.50 | taroven | Does that mean my score is Taro 0.9 Lua 0? =P |
| 08:31.56 | mckenziemc | no |
| 08:32.13 | mckenziemc | because your response was based on what i had said first, which was not what i meant |
| 08:32.35 | taroven | Damn you for assuming I'm psychic! |
| 08:32.48 | mckenziemc | i was testing if what i said about your lines was right, based on what i was -thinking- (to make sure i didn't make -another- mistake |
| 08:32.58 | mckenziemc | but since i said the wrong thing anyway... |
| 08:33.01 | taroven | XD |
| 08:33.21 | taroven | flops into bed before the logic-induced headache kicks in. |
| 08:33.31 | Kalroth | ~weather eksn |
| 08:34.07 | Fisker | still brrrr |
| 08:35.17 | mckenziemc | well now i know not to try anything clever in my addons; i have a very poor record wrt semicolons and inline conditions so far |
| 08:36.46 | mckenziemc | lua> Kalroth == Fisker |
| 08:36.47 | lua_bot | mckenziemc: true |
| 08:38.46 | Kalroth | heeey |
| 08:38.52 | Kalroth | that cant be right |
| 08:38.52 | mckenziemc | :D |
| 08:39.10 | Kalroth | I know the ultimate test |
| 08:39.17 | Fisker | Kalroth |
| 08:39.28 | Kalroth | lua> Fisker == fiskered |
| 08:39.29 | lua_bot | Kalroth: true |
| 08:39.32 | Kalroth | oh |
| 08:39.44 | mckenziemc | lua> lua_bot == honest |
| 08:39.44 | lua_bot | mckenziemc: true |
| 08:39.54 | mckenziemc | lua> lua_bot == liar |
| 08:39.54 | lua_bot | mckenziemc: true |
| 08:40.27 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy|lap (~stolenleg@193.170.222.163) |
| 08:42.34 | *** join/#wowuidev NeoTron (~neotron@pool-108-17-169-178.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 08:45.57 | Fisker | NeoTron |
| 08:46.00 | Fisker | i once killed a guy |
| 08:46.35 | Adys | Fisker: I slept on your face for years |
| 08:46.48 | Fisker | :/ |
| 08:47.00 | Fisker | that was uncalled for |
| 08:47.10 | Fisker | now my face stinks like butt |
| 08:48.59 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-76-116-64-179.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 08:50.47 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (~augustl@77.40.182.218) |
| 08:54.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (Vilkku@86-60-144-24-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 08:55.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Monolit (~postid08@89.112.4.92.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 09:04.51 | Adys | http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2010/12/china-bans-english-words-media/ |
| 09:05.29 | Fisker | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1568013960?page=5#97 <-i approve of this system |
| 09:06.21 | *** part/#wowuidev augustl (~augustl@77.40.182.218) |
| 09:07.05 | *** join/#wowuidev aualin (c20e46a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.14.70.168) |
| 09:17.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@fibhost-66-83-191.fibernet.hu) |
| 09:18.55 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@115-64-186-10.tpgi.com.au) |
| 09:18.55 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 09:20.19 | airtonix | Fisker, |
| 09:22.11 | *** join/#wowuidev aX0rZ (~Administr@p5B2486AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:26.08 | aualin | Fiskah |
| 09:29.41 | Fisker | airtonix |
| 09:29.42 | Fisker | aualin |
| 09:30.19 | airtonix | i once accidentally your mums face. |
| 09:30.40 | Fisker | that's ok |
| 09:31.57 | Fisker | slaps airtonix around a bit with a large trout |
| 09:33.15 | aualin | When i think Fisker, i think an old man in his 50s fishing my codfish |
| 09:33.31 | Fisker | i once killed a guy |
| 09:33.54 | Kalroth | by talking to him?! |
| 09:34.03 | Kalroth | *BAM* |
| 09:34.05 | airtonix | aualin, your codfish? |
| 09:34.14 | Fisker | no that would be deckard cain Kalroth |
| 09:34.17 | aualin | My codfish |
| 09:34.21 | airtonix | are you projecting a desire have your cod plucked? |
| 09:34.43 | aualin | I represent everyone in the baltic |
| 09:35.02 | airtonix | <the sound of one fisker jizzing> |
| 09:35.19 | durcyn | fisker i got my gtx570 today |
| 09:35.24 | durcyn | would you like to see it |
| 09:36.29 | airtonix | [----==] |
| 09:37.40 | Fisker | nah durcyn |
| 09:38.11 | airtonix | man gamebyro sucks |
| 09:38.20 | airtonix | so does havoc |
| 09:38.23 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-24-23-41-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 09:40.03 | airtonix | Fisker, i will now make use of my legitimately procured copy of ... |
| 09:42.39 | airtonix | Hugos House of Horrors |
| 09:46.29 | mckenziemc | I once Fiskered a trout. |
| 09:50.21 | *** join/#wowuidev TMc51 (~TMc@cpe-74-71-49-62.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 09:56.18 | airtonix | no |
| 09:56.25 | airtonix | it doesn't work like that |
| 09:56.54 | airtonix | you can't TapeRecorder a Dildo |
| 09:58.50 | mckenziemc | wat |
| 10:00.06 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-24-23-41-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 10:00.30 | mckenziemc | considering that wow's framerate is cpu bound for me, why does WoW not cause my cpu usage to go to 100% |
| 10:01.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@fibhost-66-83-191.fibernet.hu) |
| 10:01.38 | mckenziemc | i realize that it won't be using the cpu as much during the time the video card is rendering the scene, but i'd expect other processes to fill that time |
| 10:03.46 | Fisker | jeg kaster med sten og fejer med koste |
| 10:04.45 | Fisker | Robert knepper airtonix |
| 10:05.09 | Fisker | airtonix |
| 10:05.14 | Fisker | rober knepper airtonix |
| 10:05.17 | Fisker | robert* |
| 10:06.30 | the-golem | rofl @ google translation |
| 10:06.50 | Fisker | ? |
| 10:06.52 | mckenziemc | Ù
اذا Ø£ÙÙÙ ÙÙÙ
Ø ÙÙسÙØ±Ø |
| 10:06.59 | the-golem | "I throw rocks and sweeping with brooms" |
| 10:07.24 | Fisker | :o |
| 10:07.37 | Kalroth | thats .. accurate |
| 10:07.37 | mckenziemc | fisker, i asked you a question |
| 10:07.51 | Fisker | mckenziemc |
| 10:07.52 | Fisker | die |
| 10:07.55 | Kalroth | the-golem: it was exactly what he wrote :) |
| 10:07.56 | Fisker | there was no questionmark |
| 10:08.04 | airtonix | nou |
| 10:08.07 | Kalroth | Fisker er et slidt håndtag på en nedkørt havefræser |
| 10:08.10 | Fisker | and no vertically mirrored questionmarks doesn't count |
| 10:08.49 | *** part/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@dialup-4.246.254.24.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 10:09.02 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@dialup-4.246.254.24.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 10:09.03 | Fisker | i owned that guy |
| 10:09.03 | the-golem | Kalroth: Really? ... and here I thought google just totally butchered the grammar. |
| 10:09.55 | mckenziemc | heh, apparently that arabic text caused Pidgin to freeze up when i resized the window |
| 10:10.08 | airtonix | omg jihad! |
| 10:10.08 | Fisker | suuuuuuuuuuuuuure |
| 10:10.41 | mckenziemc | but anyway, are you going to answer my question, fisker? |
| 10:11.17 | Fisker | you didn't ask one |
| 10:11.22 | airtonix | i will answer for him |
| 10:11.28 | mckenziemc | yes i did |
| 10:11.37 | airtonix | 1, yes, maybe big black long ones, only on thursdays and 42 |
| 10:11.39 | Fisker | no you didn't |
| 10:11.49 | mckenziemc | yes i did, i'll repeat it: |
| 10:11.52 | mckenziemc | Ù
اذا Ø£ÙÙÙ ÙÙÙ
Ø ÙÙسÙØ±Ø |
| 10:11.57 | Fisker | not a question |
| 10:11.59 | Fisker | a statement |
| 10:12.13 | Kalroth | <Fisker> yes mckenziemc, i will give you a hug |
| 10:12.15 | Kalroth | see |
| 10:12.48 | the-golem | lol |
| 10:12.52 | airtonix | and a gobby\ |
| 10:13.25 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo| (~mojosdojo@p4FEFC006.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:13.31 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc1 (~mckenziem@dialup-4.246.248.75.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 10:13.47 | mckenziemc1 | lol, google translate converts it back to something totally different. Also, fuck dialup disconnects. |
| 10:14.15 | mckenziemc1 | "What did you say, Fisker?" -> the arabic text -> "Why do I say to you, Fisker?" |
| 10:15.17 | mckenziemc1 | ~project dongle |
| 10:15.24 | mckenziemc1 | @project dongle |
| 10:15.25 | Repo | mckenziemc1: No project found that matches 'dongle' |
| 10:20.36 | *** part/#wowuidev mckenziemc1 (~mckenziem@dialup-4.246.248.75.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 10:21.10 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~mckenziem@dialup-4.246.248.75.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 10:38.01 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix_ (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 10:49.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix (~Martin@0x5da165ee.hinqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
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| 10:56.18 | airtonix_ | fisker |
| 10:56.37 | airtonix_ | what version of android is on your phone? |
| 10:58.29 | *** join/#wowuidev drag0nius (~drag0nius@qr222.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 10:58.42 | drag0nius | doh, how to determine which professions player have learned? |
| 10:59.18 | *** join/#wowuidev TechDevout (~Miranda@79.116.118.127) |
| 10:59.24 | drag0nius | GetProfessions() return different values in each setup |
| 11:01.57 | mckenziemc | !api GetProfessions |
| 11:01.58 | lua_bot | GetProfessions: This function is not yet documented (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetProfessions) |
| 11:02.10 | mckenziemc | is that the one that returns the indexes or the one that uses them? |
| 11:02.17 | drag0nius | it shows IDs of professions you have |
| 11:02.28 | drag0nius | but the ids are different each time |
| 11:02.30 | mckenziemc | !api GetProfessionInfo |
| 11:02.30 | lua_bot | GetProfessionInfo: This function is not yet documented (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetProfessionInfo) |
| 11:02.58 | mckenziemc | but are the results from GetProfessionsInfo inconsistent too? |
| 11:03.06 | mckenziemc | disregarding different orders |
| 11:03.24 | drag0nius | hmm |
| 11:03.35 | drag0nius | i can get info on each number |
| 11:03.38 | drag0nius | and check names |
| 11:03.43 | drag0nius | nvm then ;d |
| 11:11.50 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 11:11.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 11:11.58 | airtonix_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:12.09 | airtonix_ | you know alfred hitchcock made a movie |
| 11:12.15 | airtonix_ | that takes place in one room |
| 11:12.26 | airtonix_ | supposedly without any re-takes |
| 11:12.42 | airtonix_ | and no breaks in footage |
| 11:16.19 | zid | geez, the nerf to karsh was big |
| 11:16.22 | zid | like, super big |
| 11:17.01 | airtonix_ | so was the zit on your face |
| 11:19.01 | drag0nius | hmm |
| 11:19.07 | drag0nius | if i create local within If |
| 11:19.13 | drag0nius | will it be usable outside? |
| 11:19.23 | mckenziemc | no |
| 11:19.39 | airtonix_ | only if you accept your failings as a dwarf book writer |
| 11:19.51 | drag0nius | k ty |
| 11:19.56 | airtonix_ | np |
| 11:20.05 | mckenziemc | >< |
| 11:20.10 | airtonix_ | :) |
| 11:20.36 | airtonix_ | drag0nius, plz to hlp me i need to click the "start" menu. |
| 11:20.44 | airtonix_ | wut iz da start menu? |
| 11:21.05 | drag0nius | install win98 and u'll know :P |
| 11:21.14 | airtonix_ | :( |
| 11:21.56 | airtonix_ | I'm sorry old chap. But circumstances are amongst us that prevent me from falling to your level. |
| 11:22.34 | Torhal | airtonix_: Always bet on lube. |
| 11:26.10 | mckenziemc | http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/22/009247/Electric-Cars-May-Be-Made-Noisier-By-Law?from=rss |
| 11:26.16 | airtonix_ | why i can't install adobe air on my android phone? |
| 11:27.23 | mckenziemc | maybe because you can't store air inside a chunk of silicon... |
| 11:29.14 | airtonix_ | it's not just air |
| 11:29.25 | airtonix_ | this is air for "professionals" |
| 11:29.30 | airtonix_ | <Intel Sound> |
| 11:29.34 | airtonix_ | Adobe Air |
| 11:29.35 | mckenziemc | so it's hot air? |
| 11:29.46 | airtonix_ | Dude |
| 11:29.52 | airtonix_ | I am a nobody |
| 11:29.58 | airtonix_ | so i need Professional apps |
| 11:30.02 | airtonix_ | to make me into |
| 11:30.04 | airtonix_ | Somebody |
| 11:30.21 | airtonix_ | And i will use |
| 11:30.25 | airtonix_ | phrases like : |
| 11:30.35 | airtonix_ | "Lol Neckbeard. Use a real OS" |
| 11:30.52 | airtonix_ | or "roflmao... Gimp" |
| 11:31.06 | airtonix_ | :( |
| 11:32.03 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 11:32.05 | airtonix_ | mckenziemc, |
| 11:33.26 | mckenziemc | lua> string.reverse('_xinotria') |
| 11:33.26 | lua_bot | mckenziemc: airtonix_ |
| 11:33.34 | airtonix_ | ok |
| 11:44.27 | zenzio | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/c1e5a56d-83da-4d8f-9a30-8f49f53087a8.jpg |
| 11:52.26 | mckenziemc | heh |
| 11:53.45 | mckenziemc | someone in my guild got hacked and the hacker apparently took some stuff out of the gbank, and blizz sended the stuff to me (GM of the guild) |
| 11:54.04 | mckenziemc | funny thing is, the items were 1) a grey and 2) a cata green |
| 11:54.05 | Kalroth | Yup, they do that :) |
| 11:55.34 | mitch0 | the real question is: what were those items doing in the guild bank in the first place? :) |
| 11:55.59 | mckenziemc | shrugs |
| 11:56.02 | *** part/#wowuidev drag0nius (~drag0nius@qr222.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 11:58.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 11:58.13 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|Away] by ChanServ |
| 11:58.42 | Fisker | haste |
| 11:58.44 | Fisker | i hate you |
| 11:58.44 | mckenziemc | junk mail header: "Big penis^^like a^^girl!" |
| 11:58.47 | mckenziemc | wtf |
| 11:58.53 | airtonix_ | yeah man |
| 11:58.57 | Fisker | you have the only addon i cannot download through curse client |
| 11:58.57 | airtonix_ | don't you know |
| 11:58.58 | Fisker | RAGE |
| 11:59.15 | airtonix_ | you can't download RAGE |
| 11:59.24 | mckenziemc | fisker, which addon is that? |
| 11:59.24 | Fisker | you can |
| 11:59.26 | Fisker | it's on steam |
| 11:59.31 | Fisker | Butsu mckenziemc |
| 11:59.32 | airtonix_ | prove it |
| 11:59.47 | Fisker | http://store.steampowered.com/app/9200/ |
| 11:59.51 | Fisker | btw |
| 11:59.59 | Fisker | anyone know a replacement for fizzle that works |
| 12:00.00 | Fisker | ? |
| 12:00.09 | airtonix | pop? |
| 12:00.13 | Fisker | pop? |
| 12:00.18 | airtonix | poop |
| 12:00.18 | mckenziemc | crackle |
| 12:00.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@68.64.47.56) |
| 12:00.31 | zenzio | haha... http://cheezcomixed.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/9fb33845-e030-4f48-875f-694ae2492b2b.jpg |
| 12:00.42 | Fisker | sooo |
| 12:00.50 | Fisker | i just started from scratch on addons |
| 12:00.59 | Fisker | oh |
| 12:01.01 | Fisker | subfolders |
| 12:01.02 | Fisker | silly me |
| 12:01.09 | Fisker | just thought i had 300 more addon folders than before |
| 12:01.09 | Fisker | :D |
| 12:01.09 | mckenziemc | what |
| 12:01.29 | Fisker | almost there though |
| 12:02.01 | Fisker | rage |
| 12:02.02 | airtonix | Fisker, |
| 12:02.11 | mckenziemc | marks Fisker as junk |
| 12:02.20 | Fisker | titan panel is the only broker feed with a decent mail feed, but apparently it requires titan |
| 12:02.22 | Fisker | which sucks |
| 12:02.24 | Fisker | amirite mitch0 ? |
| 12:02.32 | airtonix | is rage a stupid FPS or does it have a story like fallout ? |
| 12:03.14 | Fisker | ID says it has a story |
| 12:03.28 | Fisker | but their word is worth nothing in matters like these |
| 12:03.43 | airtonix | so its just a doom clone ? |
| 12:03.51 | airtonix | it looks very nice |
| 12:05.10 | A-KO | I would suspect that since they were bought by Zenimax last year that it would have some sort of story or elements that made Fallout successful. |
| 12:05.45 | airtonix | so you assume it has exploration like fallout ? |
| 12:06.58 | airtonix | "i am alive is" interesting |
| 12:07.24 | airtonix | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN0CiFs3U9I&NR=1 |
| 12:07.29 | zenzio | isn't Zenimax the publisher, Bethesda the developer? |
| 12:07.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~quassel@124-168-59-253.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:07.48 | A-KO | id's the developer, with Bethesda's resources--both owned by Zenimax Media |
| 12:07.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Petrovic (~Petrovic@84.120.75.157.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 12:08.01 | zenzio | A-KO: sorry, I meant on the Fallout 3-series |
| 12:08.15 | *** join/#wowuidev solo|work (~solowork@c-69-245-130-138.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 12:08.22 | Kalroth | Rage is entirely IDs own creation |
| 12:08.23 | A-KO | zenzio; Zenimax = Bethesda, they're one and the same afaik. |
| 12:08.44 | A-KO | yes Kalroth but they are most definitely utilizing Bethesda resources for development, testing, and pretty much everything else. |
| 12:09.11 | airtonix | obviously doesn't use the krap gamebryo |
| 12:09.16 | airtonix | or shite havoc |
| 12:09.21 | Kalroth | For testing, yes. But it is too late to for development and design. |
| 12:09.31 | A-KO | eh, you'd be surprised. |
| 12:09.39 | *** join/#wowuidev [Wobin] (~quassel@124-168-59-253.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:09.48 | A-KO | though Bethesda has far more input on Doom 4 atm |
| 12:09.55 | airtonix | lol |
| 12:09.57 | airtonix | Fisker, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjUwsGGLEN8 |
| 12:10.11 | Kalroth | Release date in less than a year, if they aren't done designing the basics of the game by now .. |
| 12:10.42 | A-KO | Kalroth: But they've been with Bethesda for over a year now. It was announced in Q2/Q3 of 2009 :P |
| 12:10.48 | Kalroth | "Rage will also feature some role-playing game (RPG) elementsâan inventory system and the capabilities of weapons will be based around types of ammo." |
| 12:10.51 | Kalroth | There you go |
| 12:11.03 | airtonix | lulz |
| 12:11.06 | Kalroth | It's a FPSRPG like Borderlands then |
| 12:11.09 | airtonix | RPG = Inventory |
| 12:11.20 | *** join/#wowuidev [Wobin] (~quassel@124-168-59-253.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:11.23 | Kalroth | RPG is character progression |
| 12:11.26 | mckenziemc | O.o wednesday maintenance for WoW? |
| 12:11.30 | airtonix | no |
| 12:11.32 | Fisker | no |
| 12:11.35 | Kalroth | RPG is also character progression |
| 12:11.36 | Kalroth | :p |
| 12:11.40 | airtonix | according to the GODS of computers |
| 12:11.42 | Fisker | to the maintenance part of course |
| 12:11.43 | airtonix | RPG now means |
| 12:11.48 | A-KO | most FPS games are doing RPG elements now |
| 12:11.49 | airtonix | INVENTORY FOR YOUR GUNS |
| 12:11.50 | mckenziemc | ~wowalert |
| 12:11.50 | purl | http://launcher.worldofwarcraft.com/alert (US); http://status.wow-europe.com/en/alert (EU) [NB: URL goes to 404 unless there's an active alert] |
| 12:11.55 | A-KO | I mean, just look at COD/BF |
| 12:11.58 | Kalroth | yeah |
| 12:12.03 | Fisker | RPG = Bar that moves from the left to the right |
| 12:12.08 | airtonix | lulz |
| 12:12.09 | mckenziemc | fisker - check US alert :p |
| 12:12.13 | Fisker | agree or parish |
| 12:12.16 | Kalroth | they want something you can link on fecesbook so you spam their shit for free |
| 12:12.17 | airtonix | old topic is old |
| 12:12.22 | Fisker | lol wednesdays |
| 12:12.25 | airtonix | lol parish |
| 12:12.36 | Fisker | rightly assumed EU maintenance |
| 12:12.47 | mckenziemc | fair enough |
| 12:12.48 | Fisker | btw |
| 12:13.01 | Fisker | someone suggested the most awesome system for trade skill rolls in instances |
| 12:13.05 | Fisker | you roll for everything |
| 12:13.13 | mckenziemc | ~fisker++ |
| 12:13.14 | Fisker | mines, herbs, disenchants, orbs, etc. |
| 12:13.31 | Fisker | If a non-crafter wins, the materials simply disappear |
| 12:13.34 | A-KO | chaos orbs are need roll only by crafters :P |
| 12:13.39 | airtonix | gaiz, ima show you mai pokemonz |
| 12:13.41 | airtonix | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S0D6P9FOwk |
| 12:13.44 | A-KO | brb |
| 12:13.49 | Fisker | fuck my pokemons airtonix |
| 12:13.50 | Kalroth | A-KO: I got both BS and JC, can I double need?! |
| 12:15.23 | mckenziemc | Kalroth - you get to roll twice, convert to a percent, and multiply |
| 12:15.30 | mckenziemc | then you have to use the new number :p |
| 12:15.33 | mikma | haste: http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/trollface_monitor.jpg |
| 12:15.41 | Fisker | mitch0 |
| 12:15.47 | Fisker | i need a mail notifier :( |
| 12:16.09 | Fisker | lold mikma |
| 12:16.10 | mckenziemc | called the default ui? |
| 12:16.26 | airtonix | Fisker, |
| 12:16.30 | airtonix | Fisker, |
| 12:16.31 | Fisker | no mckenziemc |
| 12:16.32 | airtonix | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjOJo_FUdM4 |
| 12:16.34 | Fisker | no airtonix |
| 12:16.37 | airtonix | GOGOGO |
| 12:17.02 | Fisker | NO AIRTONIX |
| 12:17.03 | airtonix | tron is just the start |
| 12:17.36 | mckenziemc | airtRonix? |
| 12:19.59 | airtonix | man these fan trailers are better than the movies |
| 12:21.53 | karl_w_w | so I heard chaos orbs are a hot topic |
| 12:22.08 | Kalroth | fiskers head is a chaos orb |
| 12:23.11 | airtonix | nou |
| 12:23.16 | Petrovic | hello |
| 12:23.25 | mckenziemc | LibBuilder'''close' <- valid lua syntax |
| 12:23.53 | Petrovic | I need some help with a {{DEFAULTLINK message |
| 12:24.44 | mckenziemc | lua> function f() return f end; print(f'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''') |
| 12:24.45 | lua_bot | mckenziemc: function: 0x9cf6dd0 |
| 12:25.47 | Fisker | why don't we have vertical bars mitch0 ? |
| 12:25.49 | Fisker | lazy bum |
| 12:26.08 | airtonix | ooo |
| 12:26.10 | airtonix | Thor |
| 12:26.57 | mckenziemc | Petrovic: i don't know what you mean, could you elaborate? |
| 12:27.26 | Petrovic | sorry, it's part of a template I guess |
| 12:27.37 | Petrovic | check it out http://es.wowpedia.org/Ankh |
| 12:27.43 | Petrovic | appears in the first line |
| 12:27.56 | Fisker | Computerpunk_ |
| 12:27.57 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_work (~sylvanaar@tut.qvssoftware.com) |
| 12:27.57 | mckenziemc | 'Servers temporarily at capacity.' O.o |
| 12:27.58 | Fisker | get working |
| 12:28.01 | Fisker | lazy bum, etc. |
| 12:28.04 | mckenziemc | can't view the site |
| 12:28.07 | Petrovic | f5 |
| 12:28.09 | Petrovic | reload |
| 12:28.13 | airtonix | says the guy living in his mums basement |
| 12:28.13 | Petrovic | shit happens |
| 12:28.19 | mckenziemc | that just puts more load on the site :p |
| 12:28.35 | Petrovic | that's not in y hand |
| 12:28.38 | Petrovic | my |
| 12:29.33 | mckenziemc | i'm looking up template info |
| 12:30.57 | Petrovic | I was looking it before but haven't found nothing |
| 12:31.08 | Petrovic | It's a copy from the english template, no changes |
| 12:31.29 | mckenziemc | i can't even find the page on using templates >< |
| 12:31.34 | Petrovic | in the english version there's no message http://www.wowpedia.org/Ankh |
| 12:31.43 | airtonix | this is no laughing matter son |
| 12:31.48 | mckenziemc | i'm not familiar with editing wikis but i've come across the page before |
| 12:32.26 | Petrovic | Is Foxlit around? |
| 12:32.33 | *** join/#wowuidev EvilGrin (~Geoff@87-194-195-47.bethere.co.uk) |
| 12:32.34 | mckenziemc | ~seen foxlit |
| 12:32.37 | purl | foxlit <~anonymous@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 1d 3h 18m 10s ago, saying: 'You shouldn't make blind bets.'. |
| 12:32.56 | Petrovic | damm |
| 12:33.34 | airtonix | no foxlit is person shaped |
| 12:36.23 | mckenziemc | >.> |
| 12:36.42 | mckenziemc | Petrovic: is http://www.wowpedia.org/Template:Item what you want? |
| 12:37.15 | mckenziemc | err maybe not |
| 12:37.56 | mckenziemc | no nvm that >< |
| 12:38.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu (~Sesshu@ip-210-19.travedsl.de) |
| 12:38.49 | Petrovic | we have this one in the spanish domain http://es.wowpedia.org/Template:Item |
| 12:39.12 | Petrovic | well, I just want a clue about this error message |
| 12:39.21 | mckenziemc | what are you trying to do? |
| 12:39.51 | Petrovic | I copy the english code just to look same as the english article |
| 12:39.56 | Petrovic | all the code is the same |
| 12:40.15 | Petrovic | but we receive a DIRECTLINK message |
| 12:40.21 | Petrovic | so I wonder why that happens |
| 12:40.55 | Petrovic | I checked the code looking broken links or incomplete templates |
| 12:41.24 | Petrovic | asked in the wowpedia channel and answer me to ask foxlit |
| 12:41.31 | Petrovic | it's supposed to be here xD |
| 12:41.40 | Petrovic | well not now |
| 12:44.34 | Fisker | is there an addon that will mount a random mount but use abyssal seahorse in vashj'ir? |
| 12:44.50 | mckenziemc | Fisker: probably |
| 12:44.59 | mckenziemc | :D |
| 12:45.16 | Fisker | :o |
| 12:46.37 | mckenziemc | idk what's wrong with the webpage |
| 12:47.42 | Fisker | i need moar addons |
| 12:48.31 | mckenziemc | curse client -> Get More Addons -> sort by popularity or rating and start clicking all the Install buttons |
| 12:48.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (~Robsato@wetering.xs4all.nl) |
| 12:49.21 | Shirik | what is this crap about performing maintenance today |
| 12:49.34 | Shirik | this is beyond unacceptable |
| 12:49.55 | cbreak | why? Isn't that normal? |
| 12:50.03 | Shirik | no |
| 12:50.09 | mckenziemc | tuesday normally for US |
| 12:50.22 | krka | what did you want with my unit tests Shirik? |
| 12:50.42 | Shirik | a comparison against my unit tests :) |
| 12:51.04 | cbreak | right, the us. so you have two consecutive maintenance days? |
| 12:51.07 | Shirik | I'm going back to working on my Lua VM in Lua |
| 12:51.22 | mikma | [wobin]: http://www.geekologie.com/2010/12/paying_in_blood_the_credit_car.php |
| 12:51.32 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 12:51.33 | Shirik | I was wondering if you had some good test cases |
| 12:51.35 | Fisker | i'm playing wow right now |
| 12:51.40 | Shirik | Fisker |
| 12:51.41 | Shirik | so am I |
| 12:51.58 | mckenziemc | cbreak, we didn't have any yesterday |
| 12:52.25 | cbreak | so they just switched the US to the normal schedule... or got too drunk and are a day late. |
| 12:52.41 | TMc51 | Nah, emergency maintenance. <,< |
| 12:52.53 | TMc51 | We will be performing urgent maintenance on all realms to resolve a technical issue. Maintenance will begin at 5:00 AM and conclude at approximately 11:00 AM PST. |
| 12:53.30 | Shirik | aka someone found a hax |
| 12:53.37 | mckenziemc | 5-11 usually means they're doing the regular testing cycle /shrug |
| 12:53.56 | TMc51 | Shirik, nah, my bet is somebody spilled coffee on teh servars. |
| 12:54.01 | Shirik | all of them? |
| 12:54.05 | Shirik | In all states? |
| 12:54.13 | Shirik | Must have been a massive coffee cup |
| 12:55.02 | TMc51 | Maybe hamster plague, and all the hamsters died? |
| 13:00.18 | Shirik | When servers come back what happens to all the auctions? |
| 13:00.20 | Shirik | Are they saved? |
| 13:00.43 | cbreak | aren't they supposed to continue as usual? |
| 13:00.54 | Shirik | I don't know that's why I'm asking |
| 13:00.58 | tlund | uuuh |
| 13:00.59 | tlund | #wowuidev-commits <Repo> wowmouse (experimental): tlundse 1.0 * r3 : Tagging as release 1.0 |
| 13:01.05 | airtonix | $hirik |
| 13:01.06 | tlund | why does it say "experimental" on that line? |
| 13:01.39 | Shirik | This is not on WoWI I cannot answer your question |
| 13:01.48 | Shirik | I assume because it's in the experimental branch or something similar |
| 13:01.51 | cbreak | a commit to create a tag? What the hell... :) |
| 13:02.04 | Shirik | cbreak: We all know SVN is awful, it's ok |
| 13:02.11 | tlund | Shirik: wowi? |
| 13:02.17 | Shirik | wowinterface |
| 13:02.18 | tlund | cbreak: thats how SVN work |
| 13:02.27 | tlund | Shirik: why are you talking about wowinterface? |
| 13:02.29 | Shirik | tlund: He was making a comment about "svn sucks" |
| 13:02.39 | Shirik | Why are you not talking about wowinterface and referring to me? |
| 13:02.39 | tlund | Shirik: thats.. helpfull. |
| 13:02.50 | *** join/#wowuidev WonTu (~WonTu@p57B55CF9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:02.56 | cbreak | well. svn does suck. but don't despair, there are alternatives! |
| 13:03.04 | *** part/#wowuidev WonTu (~WonTu@p57B55CF9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:03.12 | cbreak | are tags on svn in branches? or somewhere on the side? |
| 13:03.12 | Shirik | like hg |
| 13:03.17 | tlund | Shirik: i am confused. this project is on wowace. |
| 13:03.49 | Shirik | oh it's airtonix that said my name, not you |
| 13:04.13 | tlund | ok, lets start over. |
| 13:04.38 | airtonix | ok |
| 13:04.40 | tlund | i have a new project on wowace called "wowmouse". it was approved yesterday, but it seems it is tagged "experimental". how do I change that? |
| 13:04.42 | airtonix | let's |
| 13:05.11 | tlund | on the page it says: |
| 13:05.12 | tlund | This project is experimental. |
| 13:05.12 | tlund | This has been submitted for approval to become non-experimental. |
| 13:05.23 | Shirik | no idea |
| 13:05.25 | tlund | however, from yesterday, on irc: |
| 13:05.26 | tlund | New addon: http://www.wowace.com/addons/wowmouse/. WoWMouse. tlundse (Manager/Author). Experimental. Approved by Ackis. |
| 13:05.29 | airtonix | i wouldn't bump |
| 13:05.30 | airtonix | it |
| 13:05.35 | airtonix | could be volatile |
| 13:06.12 | mckenziemc | 'experimental' just means the author is playing around with it, it may not work out |
| 13:06.23 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi23 (~chris@c-68-36-33-71.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 13:06.25 | tlund | but I am the author. :) |
| 13:06.39 | mckenziemc | ah |
| 13:07.05 | mckenziemc | if you submitted it for approval then an admin will look it over when they get a chance |
| 13:07.30 | mckenziemc | experimental addons won't show on curse.com |
| 13:07.34 | Shirik | "experimental" sounds like something that should not be up to wowace to decide |
| 13:07.35 | tlund | mckenziemc: [14:05] #wowuidev <tlund> New addon: http://www.wowace.com/addons/wowmouse/. WoWMouse. tlundse (Manager/Author). Experimental. Approved by Ackis. |
| 13:07.53 | Shirik | But that's not my decision |
| 13:08.15 | airtonix | http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/wb/greenlantern/ |
| 13:08.21 | airtonix | i came |
| 13:08.25 | Kalroth | gaaay |
| 13:08.51 | airtonix | Kalroth, but balls weren't touching |
| 13:09.03 | Kalroth | oh |
| 13:09.06 | Kalroth | I'll allow it then! |
| 13:09.13 | mckenziemc | tlund, maybe i missed something -- what's your question? |
| 13:09.29 | Fisker | hey Kalroth |
| 13:09.37 | tlund | mckenziemc: read in the scrollback. |
| 13:11.08 | mckenziemc | oh i see -- it can be approved as a project, without being approved as 'ready for curse.com' |
| 13:11.10 | tlund | i left a message with Ackis, who approved it. |
| 13:11.26 | airtonix | ill curse it for free |
| 13:11.29 | mckenziemc | approved it as a project, or took it out of experimental? theres' a difference |
| 13:12.40 | tlund | mckenziemc: yes. what i don't understand, and what my question was: "why?" |
| 13:13.17 | mckenziemc | why there's a difference? |
| 13:13.36 | cbreak | to not have non-working things litter the end-user area? |
| 13:14.11 | mckenziemc | accepted as a project just means the admins allowed you to host it here, experimental status is to say 'this project was accepted, but we don't know if it's gonna work out' |
| 13:15.38 | mckenziemc | as cbreak said, it's to keep curse.com less cluttered, and to keep the end-user from downloading something that might be abandoned / significantly changed soon |
| 13:19.17 | zid | I'd like 2 changes to curse, and both are search changes |
| 13:19.34 | zid | a 'current toc' checkbox, and better search overall |
| 13:22.02 | airtonix | fiskers wowmouse |
| 13:24.00 | mckenziemc | is it possible to ignore Repo in one channel but not in another? |
| 13:24.28 | mckenziemc | nvm i suppose that would be a client-side thing, dependent on which client i'm using |
| 13:25.50 | Shirik | Does anyone here use IPB? Is there a way to restrict a phrase from being posted? |
| 13:27.47 | Thrae | Minecraft is so horribly addicting |
| 13:27.56 | TMc51 | I know |
| 13:28.14 | TMc51 | Playing right now. |
| 13:28.15 | Thrae | I started digging downward to get some ore and ended up having to make my own crude dungeon to get back up |
| 13:29.50 | TMc51 | I've been meaning to ask Cog about the server he plays on. |
| 13:33.14 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@chello213047049244.5.sc-graz.chello.at) |
| 13:47.51 | Kalroth | http://i.imgur.com/tW8Ms.png |
| 13:48.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (~mpdelbuon@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 13:48.30 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 13:48.34 | Kraps | http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/12/sadbuttrue.jpg |
| 13:49.15 | Kalroth | why is that sad |
| 13:49.18 | Kalroth | its not sad at all |
| 13:49.35 | Kraps | i know right? |
| 13:50.18 | Fisker | any font like calibri? |
| 13:50.40 | Kraps | penis Fisker |
| 13:50.56 | Kalroth | http://www.identifont.com/similar?LNR |
| 13:51.06 | Fisker | your mom Kraps |
| 13:53.13 | Kraps | your face Fisker |
| 13:53.48 | Fisker | that's what your mom said |
| 13:55.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 13:55.58 | Lunessa | station |
| 13:56.22 | Fisker | no Lunessa |
| 13:56.26 | Fisker | it's too snowy for that |
| 13:56.49 | airtonix | qqmoar |
| 13:57.31 | Kraps | lol @ europe shutting down because of snow |
| 13:57.35 | Kraps | noobs |
| 13:57.54 | airtonix | amerifag |
| 13:58.23 | Thrae | At least it's not some ash hole shutting down Europe. |
| 13:58.38 | TMc51 | it must be obvious by now that Kraps isn't from the Northeast, where the US ALWAYS gets shut downe very winter. =P |
| 13:59.13 | airtonix | Thrae, why do you hate freedom |
| 13:59.30 | airtonix | time for sleep! |
| 13:59.34 | Kraps | TMc51: no way dude, nyc snow protocols are pro |
| 13:59.47 | Fisker | AHA jnwhiteh |
| 13:59.52 | TMc51 | NYC just gets the leftovers that the rest of the state gets. |
| 14:00.07 | Thrae | airtonix: It's part of Europe's freedom to be shut down by ash holes from Iceland? |
| 14:00.17 | Kraps | what rest of the sate? |
| 14:00.26 | TMc51 | lol |
| 14:00.47 | TMc51 | Now you're acting like somebody from jersey. |
| 14:01.10 | Kraps | is that the swamp to the west? |
| 14:01.51 | TMc51 | yeah, they call that the "jersey shore" |
| 14:02.23 | TMc51 | I think it's related to pauly shore, but not certain. |
| 14:03.32 | krka | europe shutting down? what does that mean? |
| 14:10.23 | dardack_ | are US servers down? |
| 14:10.27 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~anonymous@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 14:10.31 | TMc51 | yes |
| 14:10.38 | TMc51 | emergency maintenance |
| 14:10.48 | dardack_ | emergency? |
| 14:10.52 | dardack_ | damn it |
| 14:10.59 | dardack_ | i don't take tuesday off |
| 14:11.04 | dardack_ | of course they don't go down |
| 14:11.07 | TMc51 | "We will be performing urgent maintenance on all realms to resolve a technical issue. Maintenance will begin at 5:00 AM and conclude at approximately 11:00 AM PST. " |
| 14:11.35 | dardack_ | yea I had to restart wow.exe to see that, just left it running so it doesn't show that message, ty |
| 14:12.03 | krka | urgent maintenance on europe that forces it to shutdown? |
| 14:12.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Lulia (~BleaS@pool-173-76-192-176.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 14:12.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@82.111.116.139) |
| 14:12.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 14:12.37 | foxlit | moo? |
| 14:12.52 | Thunder_Child | indeed |
| 14:13.13 | Lunessa | Part of that fix is that Chaos Orbs will only be "need"-able by those with crafting professions of 425+. :) |
| 14:13.39 | foxlit | also, the lack of a EU realm status forum disappoints me |
| 14:13.45 | foxlit | Where did they hide that page now anyway? |
| 14:14.18 | Lulia | A lot of their forums can be found in a dropdown from the forum link |
| 14:14.20 | foxlit | Chaos orbs are weird |
| 14:14.32 | Lulia | And don't seem to be on the actual forum page |
| 14:14.36 | foxlit | Think the http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/ page has them all |
| 14:14.51 | foxlit | or not |
| 14:15.07 | foxlit | http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/1028280/ , blissfully empty and unused |
| 14:16.05 | foxlit | An interesting mechanic would've been crafters being able to craft BoE armor tokens that then require a chaos orb to transform into a BoP epic |
| 14:16.25 | TMc51 | that would be pretty cool |
| 14:17.17 | Lulia | Finding the amount of attempts needed for a certain percentage of an event occurring is 1/(1-percent) ? |
| 14:17.26 | dardack_ | aren't chaos orbs just like orbs from BC before they were made BoE or is my memory faulty (which I know it is, just saying) |
| 14:17.48 | dardack_ | lulia kinda, percent of event not occuring |
| 14:18.41 | Lulia | Which would be 1-percent :P |
| 14:19.08 | Lulia | Thanks :) |
| 14:22.41 | dardack_ | um i think it's like this 1-(1-%)^n |
| 14:22.46 | dardack_ | where n is the number of runs |
| 14:22.58 | dardack_ | to get the % of your unluckyness |
| 14:23.42 | dardack_ | like if a 1% drop rate 99% chance of seeing it on the 475th run |
| 14:24.18 | dardack_ | i mean statistics mean nothing tho, as each time you enter instance it's still 1%, so that statistic just shows you how unlucky/lucky you are |
| 14:25.09 | dardack_ | although i've never hit 475 runs yet, 194 solos of skadi, 273 of baron, don't know on Anzu (hasn't dropped but I don't go everyday Like i should) |
| 14:26.58 | dardack_ | finally Non-Crafters can no longer roll on Chaos Orbs |
| 14:28.27 | dardack_ | The duration of the Superheated Quicksilver Armor debuff on Karsh Steelbender is now 17 seconds, up from 12 seconds. The encounter was too hard to tank and went against our intended fight mechanics. The display for this buff may not properly update until a client-side patch is applied., that's the fight where you gotta drag him into the lava? how was that too hard to tank? it's prolly the... |
| 14:28.28 | dardack_ | ...one fight i haven't wiped on heroic yet |
| 14:29.29 | dardack_ | and best change ever Elemental Goos now drop 100% of the time off of Cataclysm elementals for the Jewelcrafting daily quest. |
| 14:32.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (~Dark_Elf@h69-128-35-89.wdrnin.dsl.dynamic.tds.net) |
| 14:43.39 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 14:43.39 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 14:44.26 | Ackis | ninja rolls on a chaos orb potentially winning it from dardack_ |
| 14:44.39 | dardack_ | eh i don't care i have 4 |
| 14:44.51 | dardack_ | and only engineer, not too much market for the gun/bow |
| 14:45.20 | Ackis | I have 1, I'm an alchemist/enchanter |
| 14:46.27 | dardack_ | ninja |
| 14:46.37 | dardack_ | na i was just saying that cause so many people roll not realizing they bop |
| 14:47.02 | Ackis | I thought back in BC vortexes and whatnot started off as bop |
| 14:48.10 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 14:48.10 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 14:51.50 | Shirik | Ackis |
| 14:51.53 | Shirik | Who do you think you are |
| 14:51.56 | Shirik | Mr. Big Stuff |
| 14:52.02 | Ackis | NO U |
| 14:52.06 | Ackis | muting me?!?!?!?!?! |
| 14:52.08 | Ackis | rawrs! |
| 14:52.33 | Shirik | now whose fault was that? |
| 14:52.35 | Shirik | hmmm? |
| 14:52.42 | Ackis | yours for fixing the bug with EDI |
| 14:53.06 | Shirik | so because I fixed something that was broken and you didn't know, it's my fault you got banned for spamming when you spammed |
| 14:53.34 | Ackis | I wasn't spamming, I was driving a point home to Fisker |
| 14:53.41 | *** join/#wowuidev orgevo (evolution@cpe-098-026-072-224.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 14:53.48 | Ackis | takes a lot of repetitions to get through his thick skull |
| 14:54.24 | foxlit | I thought we had established that fault generally approaches Shirik? |
| 14:58.29 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@user-11219v4.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 14:58.29 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wowwiki/Kaydeethree) |
| 15:01.41 | Shirik | not cool foxlit :( |
| 15:02.59 | dardack_ | ackis they did start off as bop, i'm sure they will change chaos orbs in the future |
| 15:03.12 | foxlit | Mystery of Rustberg solved: the villagers are suspicious because they keep getting corpse-camped |
| 15:04.36 | foxlit | Are hunter traps still a pain for macros? |
| 15:05.25 | Shirik | um, /cast trap? |
| 15:05.44 | Ackis | I cast a trap and all I got was a Shirik |
| 15:05.54 | foxlit | um /cast Trap Launcher instead |
| 15:06.05 | Shirik | well that's what you get for having lazy hunters |
| 15:06.09 | foxlit | And then ponder how well your /cast Trap macros work |
| 15:06.43 | Shirik | back in my day you had to lay a trap at your feet and pull into the trap |
| 15:07.12 | foxlit | you have a hunter? :P |
| 15:07.57 | *** join/#wowuidev EvilGrin (~Geoff@87-194-195-47.bethere.co.uk) |
| 15:08.06 | dardack_ | sigh the new realmstatus page didn't updated 2 weeks ago when servers came back up for like awhile, so not sure how to keep testing for realms being up |
| 15:09.20 | mikma | bleh |
| 15:09.36 | mikma | anyone wants to get me coords of known points (all contents) |
| 15:10.24 | Ackis | Shirik saying "back in my day" makes me laugh |
| 15:10.29 | mikma | i'm wanting to code an addon where you can select "point me to -> Ironforge" and TomTom will show the way |
| 15:11.35 | foxlit | Is there any reason I wouldn't be able to find my way to Ironforge myself? |
| 15:12.09 | Shirik | foxlit: Shirik is a hunter |
| 15:12.12 | *** join/#wowuidev cog|away (~cogwheel@WoWUIDev/WoWProgramming/morlando/cogwheel) |
| 15:12.17 | Shirik | The only character that actually corresponds to this name |
| 15:12.21 | Shirik | my first character in WoW |
| 15:12.27 | Shirik | I was also quite possibly the worst hunter ever |
| 15:12.30 | Ackis | s/hunter/sexy beast/ |
| 15:12.30 | Shirik | which is actually a challenge |
| 15:12.37 | Ackis | is it possible to be a bad hunter? |
| 15:14.09 | Shirik | Let me give you some examples |
| 15:14.12 | Shirik | I refused to use my pet |
| 15:15.01 | Ackis | ah |
| 15:15.09 | Ackis | I named my pet (a ravager) after a female in the guild I was in |
| 15:15.22 | Ackis | then spammed my hunter macro |
| 15:15.24 | Ackis | and won on DPS |
| 15:15.28 | Ackis | loved his hunter |
| 15:15.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~asmith@69.73.16.202) |
| 15:15.34 | Ackis | was so much stressless than my priest |
| 15:15.41 | Shirik | I love my priest |
| 15:15.43 | Shirik | so much |
| 15:15.52 | Ackis | don't get me wrong, I love my priest |
| 15:15.57 | Ackis | just was nice and different |
| 15:16.13 | Ackis | I'm not enjoying my priest right now however |
| 15:16.19 | Ackis | heroics are too frustrating for me |
| 15:16.44 | Shirik | I am enjoying it |
| 15:16.49 | Shirik | It's a challenge again |
| 15:16.52 | Shirik | something I haven't had in forever |
| 15:17.05 | Ackis | the only challenge I have is finding 4 other people who don't have their heads up their asses |
| 15:17.30 | Ackis | first boss in brc we wiped about 8x because people couldn't run out of the chains |
| 15:17.45 | Ackis | (I died the first time because DPS didn't kill the chains in time, the rest of the wipes I lived) |
| 15:18.23 | foxlit | You know, BRC is a horrible horrible instance for getting you killed. |
| 15:18.58 | *** join/#wowuidev TechDevout (~Miranda@79.116.119.139) |
| 15:19.02 | Shirik | I loved Deadmines |
| 15:19.10 | Ackis | I haven't done deadmines |
| 15:19.32 | Warloco | Anyone here know if Crowfeather is ever on IRC? |
| 15:19.35 | Shirik | I think it's a great example of what priests can do amazingly well |
| 15:19.38 | Ackis | I did mostly complete HoO (didn't do shadow dude, some dps shaman won the BIS healing cloak as well) and first boss in BRC |
| 15:19.41 | Shirik | or an example of what priests can do amazingly poorly |
| 15:19.53 | Shirik | sadly, the latter is more likely to happen right now because 99% of priests are awful |
| 15:19.58 | Shirik | hopefully they all get scared off though |
| 15:20.24 | Ackis | I asked if heroics got nerfed after pulling the trash in BRC, it was a breeze compared to HoO trash =/ |
| 15:20.29 | Ackis | albeit we only did trash up to second boss |
| 15:21.06 | Ackis | I didn't even do my dailies last night /grumble |
| 15:21.15 | Shirik | fisherqueen is such a bitch |
| 15:21.20 | Shirik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Gecoprakla read the decline reason |
| 15:22.11 | Ackis | amusing |
| 15:22.24 | Shirik | also the one that came up with this |
| 15:22.45 | Shirik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FisherQueen/Fq-block |
| 15:23.00 | Shirik | It's a parody of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Uw-block |
| 15:24.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~kalroth@3e6be499.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 15:26.55 | *** join/#wowuidev panoukla (~omega@cpe-76-94-191-97.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 15:28.17 | Ackis | I don't quite get why it's funny, wiki humour? |
| 15:28.23 | Ackis | on a side note, took tomorrow off work |
| 15:29.45 | Ackis | anyone know if the arch buff is retroactive? :( |
| 15:32.39 | Lunessa | Thought I just had. Someone should do a mash up - The Big Lebowski: Legacy |
| 15:34.44 | dardack_ | ok going back up a bit, BRC is awesome, got all the achievements except last boss in there yesterday, but i agree with ackis, i know me as a tank i'm a beast, finding 4 other people competent sux at times, but the hotfixes for the boss where you have to put the stacking debuff armor on him, i don't understand why it was so hard to tank? 12 sec was long enough got it to 20 stacks yesterday... |
| 15:34.46 | dardack_ | ...without problem |
| 15:45.06 | Ackis | I just got a picture with Santa |
| 15:59.55 | dardack_ | servers back up |
| 16:02.28 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (~spode@85.134.124.81) |
| 16:05.51 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~p3lim@200.41.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 16:08.27 | cog|away | http://www.explosm.net/comics/2270/ |
| 16:11.11 | mikma | lunessa: have you seen tron legacy? |
| 16:11.26 | Lunessa | mikma: I saw it Sunday morning. |
| 16:11.32 | TC-Work | Kraps: ping |
| 16:11.36 | mikma | lunessa: 3D? |
| 16:11.39 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys_ (~chatzilla@cpc1-craw2-0-0-cust501.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 16:12.12 | mitch0 | 3D movies are overrated |
| 16:12.35 | mikma | overpriced |
| 16:12.39 | mikma | or is it prized |
| 16:12.43 | Lunessa | mikma: No, I saw it in 2D. I saw 20 minutes worth in 3D at Disney in Oct, and figured it wasn't worth waiting and extra hour for a show on Sunday. |
| 16:13.24 | mikma | lunessa: oki, did you like the movie? |
| 16:13.35 | TC-Work | FYI: spoilers will be met with deadly force. |
| 16:13.36 | Lunessa | mikma: Yes. Very much. |
| 16:13.57 | mikma | same here :) |
| 16:14.03 | mikma | one problem with the movie tho |
| 16:14.11 | mikma | THERE WAS TOO MUCH EYECANDY! |
| 16:14.13 | mikma | nom nom nom |
| 16:14.28 | TC-Work | nah, that just lets you watch it multiple times and see new things |
| 16:15.09 | Lunessa | Though I can't tell if it's a sign that I'm getting older, or that politics means more to me now, or if the world is just crazy, but I kept mentally reducing the story to "allegory on fascism." |
| 16:15.35 | TC-Work | Lunessa: it's a sign that you are bitter. |
| 16:15.45 | Lunessa | TC-Work: This is not news to anyone. |
| 16:16.04 | mikma | i managed to keep my thoughts out, except the fact that IT HAD SO MUCH EYECANDY! |
| 16:16.05 | Lunessa | But the eye-candy was AMAZING. The visuals and the audio were a real treat. |
| 16:16.23 | Lunessa | Also, Olivia Wilde in skin-tight costumes is always a winner. |
| 16:16.39 | mikma | all the bits and pieces were tweaked to the max with music, so points to daft punk |
| 16:18.27 | Lunessa | Daft Punk was an excellent choice. |
| 16:20.06 | mikma | i completely agree |
| 16:20.18 | mikma | i even had to (piratebay) the soundtrack after i saw the movie |
| 16:20.31 | mikma | lunessa: i lol'd when i saw the "dj's" in the club ;D |
| 16:21.19 | Lunessa | mikma: Yeah, that scene was a little too "Matrix: Reloaded" for me, but I did get a laugh out of it. |
| 16:21.34 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 16:21.58 | Lunessa | The sound track will go into my mix of stuff with Apollo 440, Crystal Method and now Daft Punk for long listening pleasure. |
| 16:22.14 | mikma | ain't talking 'bout dub |
| 16:24.36 | *** join/#wowuidev panoukla (~omega@cpe-76-94-191-97.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 16:26.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~asmith@69.73.16.202) |
| 16:29.11 | fictive | hmm. I managed to set up a MessageFrame. but should the text I add be added outside the window O.o ? |
| 16:30.42 | mikma | well depends of your SetPoints |
| 16:31.19 | fictive | messageFrame:SetPoint("LEFT", UIParent, "CENTER", 0, 0) |
| 16:32.31 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 16:32.31 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 16:33.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 16:33.32 | Shirik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2hQGOOR5g0 |
| 16:33.48 | fictive | -100, -100 centers them, but the messages still show outside of the frame when I add more messages. Are there no egde constraints for where the messages should show? =) |
| 16:35.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-41-125-163.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 16:35.57 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 16:35.57 | fictive | HAHA |
| 16:35.59 | Lunessa | cogwheel: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1568015096 - "My addons use too much memory!" rears it's ugly gorram head again. |
| 16:36.08 | fictive | I totally love the DJ Sensei |
| 16:36.14 | foxlit | gr, evil |
| 16:36.26 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 16:36.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 16:37.20 | foxlit | I have something that is bound to [nomod:alt] BUTTON4; and something else that's bound to BUTTON4. |
| 16:37.30 | cogwheel | Lunessa: just read that |
| 16:37.37 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys_ (~chatzilla@cpc1-craw2-0-0-cust501.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 16:37.44 | Ackis | hmmm someone I follow on twitter left Bungie and is now an AI engineer at Blizzard |
| 16:38.03 | Lunessa | Hopefully I nailed it to the floor and pulped it's head in pretty well. |
| 16:38.15 | TC-Work | cogwheel: have you tried DynaPep? |
| 16:38.21 | foxlit | Which works awesomely, except alt is not considered part of the binding for the original BUTTON4 binding, so it turns out to be parsed as part of macros :( |
| 16:38.24 | cogwheel | Lunessa: he seemed to respond positively ;) |
| 16:38.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 16:38.51 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 16:39.21 | cogwheel | TC-Work: no, but it looks like pseudoscientific enzyte-like BS |
| 16:39.39 | cogwheel | IntoCell⢠is proud to announce our super energy enhancer; DynaPep® contains a combination of adrenaline- inducing phytochemicals that allow the brain to induce a state of Adrenaline Maximum Output, also known as AMAX. |
| 16:40.01 | Ackis | Lunessa: addon usage is the same as addon profiler pretty much eh? |
| 16:40.04 | Lunessa | These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. |
| 16:40.27 | TC-Work | cogwheel: from what i have read it does seem to do that, but much shorter than they state. |
| 16:40.32 | alestane | ...the brain doesn't output adrenaline. |
| 16:40.35 | Lunessa | Ackis: I was just grabbing stuff from WoWI in a quick search. No slight to other tools intended. |
| 16:40.46 | TC-Work | just trying to find me a nice wakeup juice. |
| 16:41.29 | Ackis | Lunessa: wasn't worried about a slight, I'm trying to debug this: http://i54.tinypic.com/w9y0zn.jpg just making sure I have the right tools for the job |
| 16:42.06 | Ackis | @project addonprofiler |
| 16:42.08 | Repo | Ackis: No project found that matches 'addonprofiler' |
| 16:42.11 | Ackis | meh |
| 16:42.23 | cogwheel | TC-Work: 80mg of caffeine (just over 1/2 cup of coffee worth), and 1000% RDA of vitamin B12 for that insta-headrush |
| 16:42.29 | Lunessa | Ackis: That looks like Shadowed's tool. |
| 16:42.34 | Ackis | @project addon-profiler |
| 16:42.35 | Repo | Ackis: http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/addon-profiler/. Addon Profiler. Game: WoW. Shadowed (Manager/Author). Updated: 474 days ago |
| 16:42.36 | Ackis | it is Lunessa |
| 16:42.40 | cogwheel | at least it has caffeine... i may try it now ;) |
| 16:42.44 | alestane | cogwheel: Miso-shiru. |
| 16:42.45 | TC-Work | >.< |
| 16:42.55 | Ackis | I was gonna make a joke about some bum coding addon profiler :P |
| 16:43.42 | cogwheel | TC-Work: i say that in all seriousness... there are several "energy" drinks out there without caffeine that don't do a damn thing beyond placebo |
| 16:43.55 | Lunessa | Ackis: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info7175-ResourceTools.html |
| 16:43.57 | cogwheel | (or maybe the aforementioned vitamin b rush) |
| 16:44.18 | TC-Work | Caffeine is not the only thing that will wake people up. |
| 16:46.28 | p3lim | I need to gather some data about items with a specific filter, how would I go forward with that? (wowhead parsing?) |
| 16:46.32 | Ackis | Lunessa: looks interesting (minor breakage in 4.0.1 however, easy to fix based on comments) |
| 16:48.17 | Ackis | on a side note, up until today, homosexuality in Alberta was considered a mental disorder |
| 16:48.44 | alestane | A lot of things like that stay on the books until someone gets around to repealing them. |
| 16:49.14 | Ackis | yeah it came up earlier in the week but was made public today |
| 16:49.43 | Ackis | it's under the same diagnostic code section as beasiality so my assumption was general sexual disorders |
| 16:50.13 | *** join/#wowuidev panoukla (~omega@cpe-76-94-191-97.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 16:51.54 | alestane | "aberrant sexual behavior." |
| 16:52.03 | Ackis | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1568011629 someone smarter than me should take a look at that thread |
| 16:53.09 | nevcairiel | Only fps drops related to tooltips i notice is ratingbuster, when you hover the item the first time, on repeated hoverings, nothing happens anymore |
| 16:54.03 | kalvatn | is this the correct approach if I want to be able to have "project-wide"-globals; save a local _G , then isolate the environment with setfenv(1, MyAddon) ? |
| 16:54.37 | nevcairiel | you're doing it wrong, if you think thats a good solution for you :d |
| 16:54.42 | Computerpunk_ | <Fisker> Computerpunk_ |
| 16:54.44 | Cide | god damn Shirik |
| 16:54.48 | Computerpunk_ | uhm, wat? why work? |
| 16:54.54 | Shirik | \I HAVE TO CHECK MY AUCTIONS |
| 16:54.55 | Computerpunk_ | Fisker, you hate me, don't you. |
| 16:55.29 | *** join/#wowuidev NeoTron (~neotron@pool-108-17-169-178.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:56.45 | mikma | @project speed |
| 16:56.47 | Repo | mikma: No project found that matches 'speed' |
| 16:57.49 | *** join/#wowuidev zz_Cidan (~Cidan@c-69-143-16-31.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 16:58.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Cidan (~Cidan@conspiracy/developer/Cidan) |
| 17:01.57 | *** join/#wowuidev panoukla (~omega@cpe-76-94-191-97.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 17:02.52 | Lunessa | Shirik: You don't have WoW Mobile? |
| 17:03.05 | Shirik | I can't get it on my phone |
| 17:03.14 | Shirik | I could log into browser but I wanted to talk to some people anyway |
| 17:04.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (~pancake@cpe-024-163-016-179.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 17:07.17 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Work (~chatzilla@c-069-063-214-148.sd2.redwire.net) |
| 17:10.06 | alestane | Anyone know a Lua patterm that cannot match anything, including itself? |
| 17:11.00 | Ackis | !api companion |
| 17:11.01 | lua_bot | Found 9 possible results for 'companion': DismissCompanion, CallCompanion, COMPANION_UNLEARNED, COMPANION_LEARNED, GetNumCompanions, GetCompanionInfo, COMPANION_UPDATE, PickupCompanion, GetCompanionCooldown |
| 17:11.12 | Ackis | !api GetCompanionInfo |
| 17:11.12 | lua_bot | GetCompanionInfo: Returns information about a non-combat pet or mount (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetCompanionInfo) |
| 17:11.28 | Shirik | alestane: |
| 17:11.35 | Shirik | how about |
| 17:11.40 | Shirik | [^%s%S] |
| 17:12.24 | Adys | Shirik: that would match an empty string |
| 17:12.41 | alestane | So, the negation of a complete set? |
| 17:12.44 | Shirik | lua> (""):match("[^%s%S]") |
| 17:12.44 | lua_bot | Shirik: nil |
| 17:12.48 | Shirik | no it would not Adys |
| 17:12.51 | Adys | hm |
| 17:12.52 | Adys | yeah |
| 17:12.53 | Shirik | alestane: eactly |
| 17:13.00 | alestane | Because it's looking for at least one character. |
| 17:13.17 | alestane | But no character can qualify as that one. |
| 17:13.19 | Adys | lua> ("\0"):match("[^%s%S]") |
| 17:13.20 | lua_bot | Adys: nil |
| 17:13.34 | Adys | lua> "\0" |
| 17:13.34 | lua_bot | Adys: |
| 17:13.41 | Shirik | I wonder if you can do |
| 17:13.56 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:13.56 | Shirik | lua> ("[]"):match("[]") |
| 17:13.56 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: malformed pattern (missing ']') |
| 17:14.10 | sylvanaar_work | lua> ("\0"):match("*") |
| 17:14.11 | lua_bot | sylvanaar_work: nil |
| 17:14.11 | Shirik | ah yeah the ] gets considered as a character in the class |
| 17:14.22 | Shirik | lua> ("*"):match("*") |
| 17:14.22 | lua_bot | Shirik: * |
| 17:14.35 | sylvanaar_work | lua> ("\0"):match("%z") |
| 17:14.36 | lua_bot | sylvanaar_work: |
| 17:14.54 | sylvanaar_work | lua> ("\0"):match("%z"):byte)_ |
| 17:14.55 | lua_bot | sylvanaar_work: luabot:1: function arguments expected near ')' |
| 17:14.56 | sylvanaar_work | lua> ("\0"):match("%z"):byte() |
| 17:14.57 | lua_bot | sylvanaar_work: 0 |
| 17:14.59 | Adys | lua> (""):match("[^^]") |
| 17:15.00 | lua_bot | Adys: nil |
| 17:15.06 | cogwheel | "When a man steals your wife, there is no better revenge than to let him keep her." -Lee Majors |
| 17:16.55 | sylvanaar_work | lua> print "foo\0bar" |
| 17:16.56 | lua_bot | sylvanaar_work: foo |
| 17:18.24 | Lunessa | cogwheel: Lee Majors was well shut of Farrah. |
| 17:20.38 | Kalroth | Is there a way to disable player castbar in default settings? I'm trying a castbar addon, but there's no option to hide the default castbar, so I wondered if it's me that is being dumb |
| 17:20.53 | Adys | Shirik: hah; http://www.demoslam.com/#/slams/bt9F7tKcZcU |
| 17:23.34 | mikma | when will we get addon that'll refer to indiana jones ^^ |
| 17:23.56 | Computerpunk_ | So, any additions that MetaMap could use, as other AddOns? |
| 17:29.34 | *** join/#wowuidev panoukla (~omega@cpe-76-94-191-97.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 17:29.41 | Seerah | Kalroth: which addon? |
| 17:29.48 | Kalroth | Castbars |
| 17:29.58 | Kalroth | http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/castbars.aspx |
| 17:30.08 | Seerah | I use castbars and I don't get the default cast bar |
| 17:30.24 | Kalroth | So its some other addon messing with it, hrmf |
| 17:30.49 | Kalroth | It's probably SUF :P |
| 17:30.55 | Seerah | perhaps two addons fighting over visibility of hte cast bar. Castbars wants to hide it, maybe a HUD or UF addon wants to show it if you're not using theirs. |
| 17:31.00 | Seerah | turn off SUF and see. |
| 17:31.20 | Seerah | Best way to see if an addon is doing something or a different addon is to disable everything else :p |
| 17:33.02 | Kalroth | Yeah, I just didn't see an option to toggle default castbar, so I wanted to check before doing ze great hunt :) |
| 17:34.15 | Kalroth | Aha, I found the sinner. Thanks! :) |
| 17:34.23 | Computerpunk_ | :< |
| 17:34.27 | Computerpunk_ | Everyone ignoring me. |
| 17:34.32 | Computerpunk_ | I feel Fisker'd. |
| 17:35.02 | Kalroth | Who said something? |
| 17:35.45 | Ackis | Fisker: can I activate a code on Steam w/o the client? |
| 17:37.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Sapu (~Sapu94@adsl-75-45-101-35.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net) |
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| 18:02.14 | Fisker | no Ackis |
| 18:02.22 | TC-Work | ^ |
| 18:03.30 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 18:04.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Kemayo (~kemayo@adsl-108-78-187-142.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:08.42 | zenzelezz | wtf... I don't understand Cataclysm cooking skill levels |
| 18:08.54 | zenzelezz | orange at 505, grey at 515? |
| 18:12.23 | alestane | huggles Cairenn warmly. |
| 18:12.31 | Cairenn | hugs alestane |
| 18:12.34 | alestane | has been derelict in huggle duties lately. |
| 18:12.49 | Cairenn | heh, no worries |
| 18:14.23 | TC-Work | binds alestanes arms |
| 18:14.28 | durcyn | zenzelezz: i just cheated and used the bugged lavascale minestrone recipe |
| 18:15.03 | alestane | Oh dear. Now I am stuck hugging Cairenn. Whatever shall we do. |
| 18:15.19 | Cairenn | lol |
| 18:15.27 | zenzelezz | durcyn: :-o |
| 18:15.51 | sylvanaar_work | today's steam deals = pretty lame |
| 18:16.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~Jamash@99-92-174-69.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:17.05 | *** part/#wowuidev Jamash (~Jamash@99-92-174-69.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:17.06 | durcyn | zenzelezz: not even on purpose though! the recipe was in at one level, but it wasn't learnable at the marked level, so they lowered it, then raised it a few days later |
| 18:17.11 | TC-Work | sylvanaar_work: agreed. though i think i am going to pick up AC2 |
| 18:17.19 | sylvanaar_work | me too |
| 18:17.23 | durcyn | zenzelezz: and it's been orange from 475 to 520 |
| 18:17.25 | zenzelezz | durcyn: ah, I see |
| 18:19.15 | Ackis | recettear is apparently good... finacee and Bibi both liked it sylvanaar_work |
| 18:19.29 | Computerpunk_ | zenzelezz, you can do dailies to get over 515. |
| 18:19.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~Jamash@99-92-174-69.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:21.29 | zenzelezz | Computerpunk_: that's not my beef, my beef is that in 10 points the recipe goes from orange to grey |
| 18:21.59 | Computerpunk_ | zenzelezz, it's Blizzard. |
| 18:22.45 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@pool-71-188-132-215.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
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| 18:34.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (~WiN@unaffiliated/pneumatus) |
| 18:35.20 | Ackis | Today, I sent a picture to my girlfriend of my erect penis with a quote saying "It's waiting for you." She responded with a picture of her left hand showing her left ring finger with a quote saying "It's waiting for you too." FML |
| 18:35.22 | Ackis | lol |
| 18:36.56 | zenzelezz | yeah, got to hate it when that happens |
| 18:44.38 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 18:44.38 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 18:49.40 | Ackis | cogwheel: http://jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com/2010/12/sign-of-times-stop-global-warming-sign.html |
| 18:54.05 | *** part/#wowuidev tornd (~trond@8.84-49-141.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:01.03 | cogwheel | ha |
| 19:02.43 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Work (~chatzilla@c-069-063-214-148.sd2.redwire.net) |
| 19:07.04 | *** join/#wowuidev RJohn (~Tanner@h123.65.149.24.cable.rdwd.jetbroadband.com) |
| 19:09.59 | Fisker | kisses cogwheel |
| 19:10.09 | cogwheel | disinfects himself |
| 19:11.34 | TC-Work | licks cogwheel |
| 19:11.57 | cogwheel | therefore vicariously you licked Fisker |
| 19:12.14 | *** join/#wowuidev xqo (~xqo@195.131.251.212.customer.cdi.no) |
| 19:12.14 | TC-Work | that was after disinfection |
| 19:12.22 | cogwheel | i missed a spot |
| 19:12.37 | TC-Work | so did i |
| 19:12.42 | mikma | so, i pre-ordered 2x of these black knives: http://www.geekologie.com/2010/12/paying_in_blood_the_credit_car.php |
| 19:13.40 | Dagmar | Sweet! A nice travel-friendly form-factor. |
| 19:15.42 | Dagmar | Re-pasted post-seddish: I don't give it a week before someone corrupts their map doing something crazy with something that was explicitly a caveat emptor build and goes crying to the forums for a way to fix it |
| 19:15.52 | Dagmar | bleh wrong @#$@ window I so love lag |
| 19:18.54 | Dagmar | That knife is sharp (I SWEAR no pun intended) |
| 19:19.36 | Lunessa | Dagmar & mikma That is pretty sweet. I think I want one. At least one. |
| 19:21.58 | mikma | lunessa: 7.50£ now at pre-order, -50% |
| 19:22.15 | Lunessa | mikma: The site says about $23 US. |
| 19:22.31 | mikma | lunessa: http://www.iainsinclair.com/order_knife.php |
| 19:22.36 | mikma | CardSharp Utility Knife £15 (ex. delivery) |
| 19:22.36 | mikma | (delivery estimated January 2011) |
| 19:22.38 | mikma | RESERVE now for only £7.50* |
| 19:26.17 | Lunessa | mikma: I may just do that. 'cause well, one can never have too many sexy knives. |
| 19:26.35 | Dagmar | Looks a bit safer to keep in the wallet than some of the others I've seen |
| 19:34.11 | karl_w_w | sighs at the slowness of curse client |
| 19:35.11 | Lunessa | mikma: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/12/22/ |
| 19:41.01 | mikma | lunessa: interesting points i must admit |
| 19:41.32 | Lunessa | mikma: /agree - but I just watched the movie and tried to (for the most part) enjoy it for what it was. |
| 19:41.52 | mikma | lunessa: the art of turning your brain off = priceless |
| 19:42.09 | Lunessa | It gets harder and harder though. |
| 19:45.15 | *** join/#wowuidev cralor (~cralor@c-98-217-6-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 19:47.57 | Lunessa | alestane: http://textsfromlastnight.com/Text-Replies-23507.html |
| 19:48.17 | alestane | Oops. |
| 19:51.46 | *** join/#wowuidev mono|strigoy (~postid08@89.112.4.92.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 20:04.43 | Fisker | alestane |
| 20:04.44 | Fisker | you |
| 20:06.50 | clever | can a macro set the raid target icon? |
| 20:08.38 | alestane | Last I knew. |
| 20:08.55 | Fisker | ~weather kek |
| 20:13.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (~xyph@unaffiliated/xyphoid) |
| 20:24.13 | Ackis | "What do you think PETA's reaction would be if you sent them a box of animal crackers with the heads cut off?" |
| 20:24.23 | ckknight | ...delicious |
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| 20:25.36 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 20:25.43 | Fisker | your mom Ackis |
| 20:25.50 | Ackis | your mom Fisker |
| 20:29.52 | zenzelezz | http://www.gucomics.com/comic/?cdate=20101208 |
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| 20:54.28 | Fisker | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwcIm5WZdIw <-LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL |
| 20:55.16 | Fisker | more specifically: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwcIm5WZdIw#t=5m49s |
| 20:58.20 | Olison | where is the LOL? |
| 20:58.37 | zenzelezz | what LOL? |
| 20:58.37 | Olison | 404: L0L not found |
| 20:58.44 | Olison | Fiskers LOL |
| 20:59.48 | Fisker | Olison lol? |
| 21:00.09 | Olison | lol! lol loool lolol lol, lool loler lol? |
| 21:00.50 | Gagorian | Fisker: You mean LOL as in useless? |
| 21:03.19 | Fisker | i mean lol as in "never seen an 8-pin connector on a graphics card" |
| 21:08.00 | Computerpunk_ | http://cheezcomixed.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/936a4395-d05d-4dbb-83ba-2869ef70e9a3.jpg |
| 21:08.01 | Computerpunk_ | ROFL |
| 21:16.58 | bleeter | a nsfw christmas carol for the nubs (ie, it's the same as I've posted most years) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEe55NxFSSU |
| 21:17.09 | bleeter | merry humbug to all |
| 21:18.32 | zenzelezz | meh @ christmas songs |
| 21:18.56 | zenzelezz | give me a good "Night Before Startup" instead |
| 21:21.16 | Dagmar | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSXd3D-YfTs |
| 21:21.19 | Dagmar | That bastard |
| 21:21.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Aurorus (~Aurorus@mail.enigma.net.au) |
| 21:22.46 | Dagmar | Never trust a man that size who willingly wears a suit made of fun fur. |
| 21:24.06 | Aurorus | btw folks, I went and did it |
| 21:24.22 | Aurorus | bought Cata and a months' sub |
| 21:24.29 | durcyn | in a fursuit? |
| 21:25.09 | Aurorus | I don't need a fursuit to be furry baby... ;) |
| 21:25.45 | Elkano | is it caturday already? |
| 21:26.20 | Aurorus | almost :) |
| 21:26.30 | Aurorus | I'm gonna one of those sad people playing Cata on Xmas eve |
| 21:27.08 | Aurorus | My family is having a massive get together in Sydney, Australia at 6pm. I work in Newcastle, Australia and finish work at 5pm. It takes 2.5 hours to get to Sydney from Newcastle. |
| 21:27.33 | zenzelezz | where in Newcastle do you live? |
| 21:27.44 | Aurorus | So by the time I get there at 8:30pm, it will be time to pack up and drive all the way home |
| 21:28.14 | Aurorus | zenzelezz: The Hill |
| 21:28.16 | Aurorus | yourself? |
| 21:28.43 | zenzelezz | Norway :-p But know someone who lived in Adamstown until recently |
| 21:28.45 | Elkano | although I shouldn't make such jokes today... a friend's cat just died a few hours ago :( |
| 21:28.55 | Aurorus | ooh, cool |
| 21:29.00 | Aurorus | afk - company sponsored Brekky |
| 21:29.33 | Elkano | 5pm +2.5 should be 7:30pm though |
| 21:30.22 | cogwheel | sweet... gingerbread stabilized my droid x's wifi connection at work |
| 21:33.32 | Ackis | how the hell does a cookie stablize wifi? |
| 21:33.43 | Fisker | Ackis |
| 21:33.45 | Fisker | i once killed a guy |
| 21:33.57 | Ackis | that's nice |
| 21:34.06 | Elkano | gun, head, trigger, dead? |
| 21:42.50 | durcyn | he's just a really big Queen fan |
| 21:42.56 | durcyn | also just a really big queen |
| 21:46.38 | Dagmar | ...and really big? |
| 21:50.08 | durcyn | are you calling fisker fat |
| 21:50.10 | durcyn | that's not very nice |
| 21:51.40 | TC-Work | but queen is ok? |
| 21:54.23 | industrial | "detect if/whether we are in the right spec" <- which is correct? |
| 21:54.50 | foxlit | both. |
| 21:54.57 | foxlit | but whether is more awesome. |
| 21:55.12 | industrial | I like awesome. |
| 21:56.03 | Ackis | s/awesome/dick/ |
| 21:57.50 | Elkano | you know Dick? He's such a nice guy... |
| 21:58.07 | industrial | <Ackis> I like them big and raw, no grease for me. Maybe grease with some hard bits. |
| 21:58.10 | industrial | this ^ |
| 21:58.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@71-88-41-93.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 21:59.23 | Amarande | so it looks like that BoP chaos orb thing is already impacting the game negatively, according to these posts. wonder how long before they'll have to recant on it. |
| 21:59.32 | industrial | yeah I hate it |
| 21:59.54 | industrial | people in my guild arent willing to spend orbs on me even if I pay them for the orbs, mats to get the recipe and the item itself |
| 22:00.10 | industrial | and I'd have 10 orbs myself by now if I could just hand them over to a LW'er |
| 22:00.18 | industrial | so I'm hating blizzard a bit for this. |
| 22:00.21 | Amarande | And he's right. IT IS NOT QQ. It is a simple fact that four specific crafting profs get a shot (which can be a certainty, depending on party composition) of making an additional 1000-4000g off of every heroic run at the expense of the efforts and repair bills of the rest of the group. |
| 22:00.39 | foxlit | You're hating blizzard instead of the people in your guild? :) |
| 22:00.45 | Elkano | industrial, that stuff used to be BoP in WotLK, too... |
| 22:01.00 | Amarande | foxlit: There are already tanks who either have had issues with their crafting professions (this one guy in the thread apparently is having problems with LW) or don't have them |
| 22:01.08 | industrial | Elkano: well I want my belt NAO |
| 22:01.29 | industrial | couldv had it last week ffs :| |
| 22:01.30 | Amarande | who are already going on strike so to speak, refusing to do heroic runs because they're basically risking their repair bills so someone else can profit. |
| 22:01.32 | Elkano | got my first orb today, too... means I should continue pushing my BS... |
| 22:01.50 | TC-Work | Elkano: you already have a high BS.... |
| 22:02.16 | Elkano | well, you need 425 to roll on it |
| 22:02.20 | Amarande | Alchemists and JCs are also complaining mightily as well, because *they* don't get any special big-money prize from dungeons either like the armor-making professions and Engineers do. |
| 22:02.30 | TC-Work | i meant bullshit |
| 22:02.52 | Amarande | Elk: there's also reports of people who have a gathering/crafting combo being treated as "sry you're just a gatherer, no orb for you!" |
| 22:03.15 | foxlit | Amarande: I simply do not care about people complaining |
| 22:03.24 | Elkano | good to know, more orbs for me... ;) |
| 22:03.24 | Amarande | To be sure of being able to roll on the orbs you apparently have to take TWO of the eligible professions and have a separate gatherer or use the AH to support them. |
| 22:03.57 | foxlit | People always complain. People are complaining that heroics are too hard. That there's no pet on the 6th anniversary. That they didn't get the Deathwing achievement. That there are no free epics. |
| 22:04.02 | Amarande | Then there's scribes, who apparently are screwed over on cata equippables as well |
| 22:04.13 | industrial | effort-wise I think I'm making way more money just herbing then making 4000g off a crafted item |
| 22:04.28 | Amarande | since not only don't they get to use orbs, but they'd probably RATHER use orbs. instead they have to use bleached jawbones to make the relics, and those are a *limited vendor item*. |
| 22:04.44 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:04.47 | Xyphoid | they massively increased the respawn rate on the jawbones fyi |
| 22:04.59 | mikma | http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/39/2010/12/how-video-game-makers-design-characters-24820-1292940464-1.jpg |
| 22:05.15 | Amarande | Xyphoid: there's still the matter of alchemists and JCs being treated to the short end of things |
| 22:05.35 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~mckenziem@dialup-4.246.255.39.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 22:05.52 | Amarande | JCs have one of the most expensive leveling grinds there is right now, with the cost of ore and the even higher cost of uncut gems, plus the fact that the cut gems barely sell for more than vendor on many realms |
| 22:06.11 | Amarande | but they don't even get to use orbs at all! in LK they at least had Frozen Orb recipes, even if they never got to take advantage of the higher end orbs |
| 22:06.28 | Xyphoid | really, jewelcrafters crying is the last thing i will ever care about |
| 22:06.42 | foxlit | amen. |
| 22:06.43 | mckenziemc | lol |
| 22:06.50 | foxlit | Alchemists, too, really. |
| 22:06.54 | Amarande | Xyphoid: so JC should just be a money sink, unless you were one of the lucky first few to level it and could sell your metas for 2000+? |
| 22:07.15 | Xyphoid | if you think the profession is a money sink i recommend replacing it |
| 22:07.21 | foxlit | I mean, JC and alchemy incomes are virtually gauranteed through the entire expansion cycle. The novelty of craftable epics will wear off in two weeks. |
| 22:07.29 | Xyphoid | and really it's the same with scribes |
| 22:07.49 | Xyphoid | if you've had inscription for any length of time and you're not sitting on more money than you can use you've probably not beeing paying attention |
| 22:08.00 | Amarande | Xyphoid: yeah, I know, herbalism/inscription is pretty profitable |
| 22:08.24 | Amarande | I'm guessing they're trying to make tradeskills something you *hire* rather than something you maintain all of now? |
| 22:09.08 | Amarande | One thing I tend to do with alts is try to get all the tradeskills represented among them eventually |
| 22:09.34 | Amarande | that would break down in LK, though, since it takes a fair amount of time to get HC gear for one character let alone several, and *every character* who uses such a profession needs to be *in* HC gear |
| 22:09.59 | Amarande | it's one thing that pissed me off in BC. I couldn't get heroic groups, which also meant my tradeskills suffered too, because I had no access to Primal Nether until the expansion was nearly over. |
| 22:10.36 | Amarande | (Even then, a lot of the stuff that was good, and a large amount of what was good and *didn't* need PN, was from BoP recipes you had to raid or do HCs to get.) |
| 22:10.55 | Xyphoid | you're not entitled to max tradeskills just for reaching max level |
| 22:11.36 | Amarande | Xyphoid: you should be able to do it simply by investing time in gathering and farming and such though, no? |
| 22:11.42 | Amarande | At least it's not as bad as in BC. |
| 22:11.42 | Xyphoid | why do you think that |
| 22:12.05 | Amarande | We have the dungeon finder now, which means you don't *have to be* in a raiding guild to max your tradeskills. |
| 22:12.05 | mckenziemc | xypoid: why do you think otherwise |
| 22:12.15 | mckenziemc | :p |
| 22:12.29 | Amarande | In BC, you basically had to be in a raiding guild to hope to max your tradeskills because otherwise you didn't have access to mats at all, because even most heroic runs by mid-late BC were done by raiding guilds for badges |
| 22:13.16 | Amarande | (And even if you found a HC PUG in BC, you were expected to be in tier gear to be accepted.) |
| 22:14.30 | Amarande | In any case, I think the main things people are seeing are: |
| 22:15.10 | Amarande | 1) that there's apparently a bug with the new restriction on orb rolling which is causing people who went the sane route and leveled Skinning or Mining along with their crafting prof to sometimes get screwed out of orbs now |
| 22:15.55 | Amarande | 2) that some people are already seeing that the orbs are now a high-value bonus that only people with certain tradeskills are eligible for and running an HC as any other profession is the same risk for a lesser reward, and when a number of those folks are tanks and healers, it's going to make queues suffer |
| 22:16.35 | Amarande | 3) that it would be fairer if at least all the CRAFTING professions had a use for (and access to) orbs, so only dual gatherers would be screwed out of them, but only four professions do. |
| 22:16.45 | Amarande | Not even just "only four", but really more just BS and LW, in a practical sense. |
| 22:17.44 | Amarande | Tailors don't *need* the orbs for dreamcloth since they can use volatile life instead, the only other tailoring recipe that needs an orb is a vanity item; Engineers, meanwhile, unless they're making that one bow will use only one or two orbs ever (depending on whether they have specs that benefit from two or just one of the goggles). |
| 22:18.38 | Amarande | you know maybe I should actually post this *on the boards* heh |
| 22:19.39 | Amarande | Heya Seerah |
| 22:19.41 | Dagmar | Good luck not getting the clueless loot whores to click need on it |
| 22:19.49 | Seerah | hi, Amarande |
| 22:19.56 | Amarande | Dagmar: that's what the change was for |
| 22:20.02 | Dagmar | What change? |
| 22:20.12 | Dagmar | did they make it so that people who don't have a crafting skill can't click need on chaos orbs? |
| 22:20.13 | Amarande | making only people with 425+ in a profession that can use chaos orbs able to roll on them |
| 22:20.19 | Dagmar | Fuckin' sweet |
| 22:20.20 | Amarande | yes, that's exactly what they did. |
| 22:20.32 | Dagmar | Internet and Internet2 have been broken here today since I got in. |
| 22:20.32 | Amarande | it would be sweet, except that 1) it doesn't fix any of the imbalances people are unhappy with *regarding* the orbs |
| 22:20.41 | Dagmar | it's not a happy data center day here. |
| 22:20.57 | Amarande | and 2) it's apparently bugged, so that if you level the crafting profession alongside a gathering profession (or an ineligible crafting profession), it's seeing some people as ineligible when they should be allowed to roll |
| 22:21.12 | Xyphoid | clicking need on them even if you're not using them for crafting is rational on the assumption that they'll become boe eventually |
| 22:21.16 | Amarande | It seems to be uncertain whether this is a random issue of the not quite 100% drop rate or whether it's indeed a bug |
| 22:21.25 | mckenziemc | i still don't get why people actually cry about #2, they queued for the heroic for other reasons |
| 22:22.23 | Amarande | mckenziemc: because people who actually HAVE spent a bazillion gold leveling leatherworking or BS are getting screwed out of the opportunity to use their profession to its fullest, due to apparently the fact that they took skinning and mining (and wouldn't you?) causing them to be seen by the game as gatherers not crafters and not getting to roll |
| 22:22.46 | Thrae | Are Chaos Orbs still BoP? |
| 22:22.49 | Dagmar | mckenziemc: Becuse they're whiny gits who see someone else getting somethin |
| 22:22.50 | Dagmar | Thrae: Yep |
| 22:22.54 | Amarande | and LW, in particular, has a ridiculously insane cost to level. |
| 22:23.05 | Dagmar | God yeah several of the recipes take three orbs |
| 22:23.19 | Dagmar | Pretty much all of the ones you get from Twilight Highlands take at least one |
| 22:23.21 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 22:23.25 | mckenziemc | 'hey, i need a group to do this one thing, but if you have your own reasons for coming, and you get more value, i don't want to help' |
| 22:23.27 | Amarande | Wouldn't *you* be mightily pissed if you spent five digits' worth on mats for leveling your LW, and then the game decided that because you had skinning you "weren't an eligible crafter" and can't roll on orbs to use your profession? |
| 22:23.29 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 22:23.41 | mckenziemc | Amarande: i said 2, not 1 |
| 22:23.50 | Dagmar | If your skill isnt high enough to use htem it should not be a problem |
| 22:23.52 | Amarande | THAT'S what one of the tanks apparently is having an issue with. |
| 22:23.57 | Dagmar | It's NOT hard to get leatherworking from 425 to 500. |
| 22:24.05 | Dagmar | All it takes is savage leather and lots of it |
| 22:24.11 | Amarande | From what I'm gathering, he leveled his LW alongside skinning and now the game sez he can't have orbs because he has a gathering profession |
| 22:24.11 | Thrae | When are they going to make Chaos Orbs BoE? A week? Two weeks? A month? It's annoying to see recipes for BoP Level 81 items that need an item you can only get at Level 85. |
| 22:24.22 | Amarande | Meanwhile, OTHER LWs and blacksmiths he groups with are able to roll on the orbs. |
| 22:24.39 | Dagmar | Amarande: Maybe that's a bug |
| 22:24.41 | Amarande | Which means he's TANKING for them, HAS a profession that can use the orbs, and doesn't even get a chance to get them himself. Yeah, I'd say that's a bit of a pisser. |
| 22:24.49 | Amarande | Dagmar: yeah, it's definitely a bug |
| 22:25.01 | Amarande | it's still a bug that's making people understandably unwilling to tank, though |
| 22:25.02 | mckenziemc | Amarande: that's not what i was talking about at all; i understand that |
| 22:25.24 | Thrae | They should buff all the profession items that require Chaos Orbs but can be equipped less than Level 85. |
| 22:25.24 | mckenziemc | oh, you reused numbers |
| 22:25.31 | mckenziemc | the 2 further up in your 1-4 |
| 22:25.38 | Dagmar | Wait... he _has_ encountered this problem, or is this just more yelling in advance of a possible problem? |
| 22:25.41 | mckenziemc | 1-3* |
| 22:26.19 | Amarande | Dagmar: I'm not sure if he's encountered it personally or heard about the other poster with a gather/craft combo having issues and now is disheartened from queuing as tank |
| 22:26.43 | Dagmar | What does tanking have to do with it again? |
| 22:27.14 | Amarande | Dagmar: Not much, really, apart from that tanks not wanting to queue has a higher impact on the system than DPS not wanting to queue |
| 22:27.19 | Thrae | Amarande: I think the LFD system should incorporate a gold handling system. Tanks are still in extremely high demand and probably always will be. They're the ones everyone blames and everyone expects to have T12 gear running Normals. As a Tank I should be able to go Mercenary. |
| 22:27.38 | Dagmar | Amarande: Oh, so "I'm not being treated special enough" then |
| 22:27.52 | Amarande | Dagmar: Well, from the standpoint of a queue user ... if a DPS gets pissed and doesn't want to queue, fine, there's plenty of replacements. |
| 22:28.03 | Amarande | If tanks get pissed and don't want to queue, that's even more time spent in queues that are already long enough as it is. |
| 22:28.11 | Dagmar | Then those DPSers should break out their tanking toons |
| 22:28.23 | Xyphoid | people tank for money on trade a lot |
| 22:28.29 | Thrae | Those DPSers can barely figure out how to work CC, let alone tanking |
| 22:28.32 | Xyphoid | seems like a reasonable system, 'for 100g i'll queue with you' |
| 22:28.34 | Amarande | Dagmar: Doesn't help their DPS toons, especially if they're one of the four classes not blessed with either tanking or healing eligibility |
| 22:28.35 | Dagmar | You forget the flipside of the count which is that there's PLENTY of jackass tanks |
| 22:28.43 | Thrae | Xyphoid: Yeah I do that all the time |
| 22:29.11 | Amarande | Or for that matter, one of the six classes that can't tank. |
| 22:29.21 | Dagmar | I got to see one the night before last in HoO. He wiped us twice in a row at the start of things, or rather *tried* to and I gorilla-bombed hte rest of the pull |
| 22:29.25 | Amarande | Shamans and priests suffer too when tanks don't queue, since they can queue as healer but still have to wait in queue for a tank. |
| 22:30.05 | Dagmar | Literally he zerged into the first pull and kept spamming AoEs so no CC was possible, then the moment we get back in before anyone (particularly the shaman and the paladin) had any mana, runs in and pulls another five mobs |
| 22:30.09 | Thrae | Dagmar: There are tanks who are jerks, but the number of people who are queuing up and can't actually tank are pretty small as people are putting too much emphasis on the tanks. The tanking mechanics haven't changed as much as the healing and especially the new role of DPS as "DPS/Support". |
| 22:30.12 | mckenziemc | keep in mind that if dps decide not to queue, that -still- shortens the queue, even if dps are over-abundant |
| 22:30.22 | Dagmar | In between he actually told the healer "Can you stop failing so much at healing plzthx" |
| 22:30.23 | Amarande | Thrae: there's some understandability for wanting the tank to be overgeared, though |
| 22:30.36 | Amarande | especially as the expansion gets older |
| 22:30.58 | Dagmar | Thrae: I htink the "DPS/support" thing is in your head |
| 22:31.00 | Amarande | a newly minted tank often won't be able to hold aggro against high-geared DPS |
| 22:31.05 | Xyphoid | that's the DPS's problem |
| 22:31.07 | Xyphoid | compeltely |
| 22:31.16 | Dagmar | Now that tanks can't just lolaoe, DPS has more of a chance to step up and kill some people |
| 22:31.30 | Dagmar | Amarande: That would be failure on the part of the DPS player. |
| 22:31.39 | Thrae | Amarande: I don't want to hear "the [Cataclysm] expansion" and "old" in the same sentence at least for a couple of months |
| 22:31.45 | Amarande | Dagmar: it gets less and less avoidable later on, though |
| 22:31.49 | Dagmar | Not heeding the multitude of warnings from even the default UI about threat just makes you an asshole |
| 22:32.03 | Amarande | Consider this: The belt buckle this expansion has a maximum ilvl of 500. The one from last expansion now has a maximum ilvl of 300. |
| 22:32.14 | Dagmar | So? |
| 22:32.16 | Amarande | This is something of an indication that the item levels in Cata will reach the upper 400s eventually. |
| 22:32.29 | mckenziemc | regardless, being threat-capped is not fun |
| 22:32.30 | Dagmar | Was there any gear from Wrath that even had an item level of 300"? |
| 22:32.31 | Amarande | Dagmar: okay, that still has issues then if you just blame the DPS for pulling |
| 22:32.39 | Thrae | Considering they already reach the upper 396s that makes sense |
| 22:32.50 | Amarande | 284 was highest. So that means we'll expect around 480 or so for gear from Deathwing heroic, I'm guessing. |
| 22:33.07 | Amarande | Meanwhile, you enter heroics at 329. |
| 22:33.11 | Dagmar | mckenziemc: Mainly it's called "not just mashing every button at once" |
| 22:33.27 | mckenziemc | which is not fun :p |
| 22:33.37 | Amarande | 329 tank and 480 DPS ... okay, so you want the battle mechanics to consist of just standing there and taking a pot shot every now and then because any more than that and you'll pull. Yeah, that sounds like fun ... not really :| |
| 22:33.49 | mckenziemc | ^ |
| 22:33.56 | Thrae | Dagmar: As far as "DPS/Support", there's now actual use for CC in Heroics |
| 22:33.59 | Dagmar | Sweet. They upped the timer on Karsh's freaking molten obsidium stacks |
| 22:34.08 | Dagmar | Thrae: hell, there's use for CC in regulars |
| 22:34.21 | Dagmar | I've been throwing out ice traps and scatter shots just to stop mobs casting |
| 22:34.23 | Amarande | Not to mention melee DPS having even worse issues, between the 110% threat cap and the fact that even white damage could pull with a sufficient ilvl differential. |
| 22:34.25 | Xyphoid | you don't *have* to continue the dungeon if you don't find it fun |
| 22:34.53 | mckenziemc | which does not solve the issue |
| 22:35.01 | mckenziemc | you've just wasted a queue |
| 22:35.02 | Amarande | (Actually, isn't white damage almost all that, say, Enhancement Shamans in particular DO? They buff up and activate things with a chance of proccing and then they white damage, from what I saw last time I played enh in BC.) |
| 22:35.06 | Xyphoid | it's just pathetic to complain that 'if i press my buttons i will pull aggro' - if nothing else you can kite something or offtank it or interrupt or cc all fight |
| 22:35.11 | Thrae | Amarande: I thought the LFD system was designed to help with imbalances like that? Of course there's always queue starvation. |
| 22:35.15 | mckenziemc | plus no one likes it when someone drops out at the start |
| 22:35.26 | Xyphoid | if you're in that high a gear differential you can just offtank the heroic mob in your stam gear |
| 22:35.39 | Amarande | Thrae: actually if anything what I'm told is it tries to balance groups |
| 22:35.40 | alestane | Quick question for TextWrangler users: is there a way to set TextWrangler so that any file you open will have the line numbers showing? I haven't been able to find it. |
| 22:35.45 | Xyphoid | i mean, look at late LK heroics, it didn't matter if a mage pulled aggro |
| 22:35.49 | Thrae | Xyphoid: Yeah, the DPS now has much better DCs than before |
| 22:35.54 | Amarande | which means that if you have a few people with great gear queuing they'll probably get to carry someone with shitty gear. pray it's not the tank. |
| 22:36.09 | Thrae | Everyone basically has better DCs, AFAIK. Except maybe Warlocks. |
| 22:36.09 | Amarande | except that if you queue with *minimal* gear, as tank or no, you'll probably get paired with the people with great gear on the flipside |
| 22:36.12 | Dagmar | God forbid they actually not mash all the buttons at once |
| 22:36.49 | Thrae | Amarande: If it's a *smart* tank they can use the threat swap to their advantage...but probably not |
| 22:36.59 | Amarande | In a perfect world, this would be a good thing. The price of queuing would be that you have to help lesser geared people gear up. |
| 22:37.04 | Thrae | People often have multiple DPS alts but not multiple tanking alts |
| 22:37.05 | mckenziemc | dagmar: back to square one |
| 22:37.14 | Xyphoid | i just think 'the dps are bored because they don't get to press their buttons' is anything to care about at all |
| 22:37.15 | Thrae | That's just math right there, partly |
| 22:37.30 | Xyphoid | i mean, they are absolutely welcome to stay in the queue and be bored because they're not pressing their buttons |
| 22:37.37 | Amarande | But the world isn't perfect, so what will actually happen is that the people with great gear will keep getting pissed off at the newer players who aren't able to do as much yet. |
| 22:37.55 | Dagmar | Part of *skill* is in being able to exercise a bit of self-restraint and *not* take threat, even if the tank is undergeared |
| 22:37.59 | Thrae | Amarande: Of course you know what this means... |
| 22:38.15 | Dagmar | If they're expecting _gear_ to compensate for their lack of self-control, they're idiots. |
| 22:38.16 | Thrae | "200g per run from an all-slot 400+ iLevel tank!" |
| 22:38.17 | Amarande | Dagmar: and yes, there is very much a use for CC in regulars |
| 22:38.27 | Amarande | *shudder* HoO pulls with 2 shadowlancers |
| 22:38.34 | Amarande | Shadowlancers: Like spellflingers, but even worse! |
| 22:38.46 | mckenziemc | xyphoid: problem is they won't want to requeue, instead they expect the tank to be geared |
| 22:39.13 | Dagmar | But hey, people seem to want to view the game as strictly a matter of gear and then claim they've got skill because they've got gear, then I will *quit* |
| 22:39.14 | mckenziemc | i'm not saying it's justified, i'm just saying that's what happens |
| 22:39.21 | Dagmar | I didn't care for that crap in Everquest |
| 22:39.24 | Xyphoid | i'm just not sure why we should care about these people at all. |
| 22:39.25 | Amarande | mckenziemc: and the only saving grace to that is that tanks that requeue at least get quick queues again, and a votekick doesn't give you deserter |
| 22:39.34 | Thrae | Amarande: Hopefully they will rebalance the instances a bit more. Right now tanks are out-DPS'ing the DPS'rs. Of course it doesn't help the tanks are usually a bit better geared, but there's stuff like Mangle spam. |
| 22:39.41 | Amarande | Dagmar: it seems to be on the up in Cata, too |
| 22:39.47 | Dagmar | It needs to stop. |
| 22:40.01 | Amarande | oddly, only during LK, *despite* the outer facade of "GS this, GS that" have people had some level of tolerance for the undergeared. |
| 22:40.11 | mckenziemc | Dagmar: yes, it's a part of skill. No, it's not a 'fun' part of skill |
| 22:40.13 | Dagmar | ...although after six years Blizzard hasn't caved to whineplay mechanics changes, I have hopes they won't up and do it now |
| 22:40.23 | Dagmar | mckenziemc: Sometimes you have to work for stuff. |
| 22:40.37 | Amarande | In fact, when I first got accepted to the raid that eventually I guilded up with and became a KS with, I had less than a 4800 GS, at a time when even 5200+ was getting to not be enough for most groups. |
| 22:41.04 | Elkano | I never knew my GS... |
| 22:41.11 | Thrae | A T11+ geared tank doing Heroics could seriously let the other members slack much more than a T11+ geared Healer (and we already established that T11+ geared DPS can make groups worse). |
| 22:41.24 | Dagmar | If you try to equate being able to go hog wild on DPS all the time with "fun" and demand that kind of "fun" you get retarded bullshit like Everquest where it's just a tank, some healers and a bunch of cheerleaders. |
| 22:41.27 | Dagmar | That's not a game I want to play. |
| 22:41.36 | mckenziemc | Dagmar: a game is supposed to be fun; most people don't want to work for stuff. Which is the problem. |
| 22:41.45 | Dagmar | Let 'em go play EverQuest |
| 22:41.49 | Amarande | Dagmar: having to keep an eye on Omen, I don't mind |
| 22:42.00 | Dagmar | I usually just listen to it |
| 22:42.04 | Dagmar | It's freaking LOUD |
| 22:42.19 | Thrae | I think we'll find as time goes on, people will expect tanks in particular to have better and better gear for Heroics which is unobtainable without literally a month of work (until they drop T11 down to JPs). |
| 22:42.22 | Amarande | What I will get annoyed about eventually for sure is having to sit there idle most of the time because I'll have to hold back THAT much to not pull |
| 22:42.37 | nevcairiel | get a tank that does not suck |
| 22:42.46 | Amarande | If I wanted to be idle most of the time, I'd heal UK on my disc priest. |
| 22:42.58 | Xyphoid | Amarande: if you're actually a good player, you will find other things to do than sit there idle |
| 22:43.03 | Elkano | considering how often we wiped today in heroics it was still lots of fun for my first hero day ^^ but that was most likely caused by it being a guild group |
| 22:43.05 | Amarande | I could actually, probably, have this conversation while healing UK on my disc priest. |
| 22:43.20 | nevcairiel | You know, thats one of the main changes in cata, skill matters. a bad tank will just have way less threat |
| 22:43.36 | Amarande | nevcairiel: I'm more thinking about when the expansion is nearly done, when Deathwing is a raid and all that |
| 22:43.39 | nevcairiel | not like wotlk where anyone can faceroll through an instance |
| 22:43.48 | Thrae | nevcairiel: Most people expect everything to be speedruns, even if it's their first damn time in the dungeon. And every wipe has an average of 20% increasing chance for the group to break down. |
| 22:44.00 | Amarande | and I'll be DPSing in high end gear (presumably T12 or T13 from JPs by that point) and then a new tank comes in |
| 22:44.03 | nevcairiel | I dont go into random dungeons |
| 22:44.12 | Amarande | and much as they may try it, much as they may know what they're doing, they simply don't have the power to put out enough TPS |
| 22:44.15 | Thrae | We're talking about random dungeons |
| 22:44.38 | Dagmar | Amarande: Again, the fault for that lies on DPS who can't be bothered to actually display some skill |
| 22:44.42 | Elkano | Amarande, level yourself a rogue then... |
| 22:44.49 | nevcairiel | Heroics are already pretty easy in full heroic gear |
| 22:45.00 | Xyphoid | Amarande: you're seriously complaining that in a year from now you will be bored in random heroics, and that's a problem? |
| 22:45.01 | nevcairiel | they were pretty damn hard in normal dungeon/level gear |
| 22:45.04 | nevcairiel | but in heroic gear |
| 22:45.09 | nevcairiel | meh, not hard anymore |
| 22:45.41 | Elkano | nevcairiel, but still better than it was in wotlk where you did steamrol from the moment you went 80 |
| 22:45.45 | nevcairiel | we dont cc anymore |
| 22:45.55 | Amarande | Dagmar: there's also some classes that have a huge amount of difficulty with holding back on DPS if need be |
| 22:45.57 | nevcairiel | an accidental double pull doesnt guarantee a wipe |
| 22:45.58 | Xyphoid | Amarande: i've seen some crazy things from you in the past, but complaining about the state of LFD in 2012 is a new reacord |
| 22:46.01 | Amarande | simply due to inherent mechanics. |
| 22:46.02 | Shirik | Arrowmaster were you the one that like DS9? |
| 22:46.09 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 22:46.14 | Shirik | What I think of your DS9: http://www.vgcats.com/comics/ |
| 22:46.19 | Amarande | Warlocks and shadow priests come to mind, particularly |
| 22:47.03 | Amarande | You can't take back dots if you're about to pull aggro (and if you don't know the tank, you won't know till it's too late that you're going to). |
| 22:47.13 | Dagmar | Which means you suck |
| 22:47.27 | Amarande | Dagmar: not knowing the capabilities of the tank in a random group in advance is sucking? |
| 22:47.28 | nevcairiel | If dots alone pull aggro, get a new tank. :P |
| 22:47.30 | Dagmar | You shouldn't have cast them if they were potentially going to throw you that far ahead in threat. |
| 22:47.34 | Dagmar | Amarande: YES. |
| 22:47.46 | Xyphoid | if nothing else there's a HP level that tells you a lot |
| 22:47.46 | nevcairiel | sucky players will be sucky |
| 22:47.52 | Dagmar | Amarande: Ther'es no rule that says you can't just STAND THERE AND WATCH while the tank builds up a good head of steam. |
| 22:47.55 | Xyphoid | also locks can remove their dots now |
| 22:48.04 | mckenziemc | aff only |
| 22:48.12 | nevcairiel | only aff has strong dots |
| 22:48.14 | nevcairiel | :) |
| 22:48.16 | Dagmar | I can just imagine Richard answering that one |
| 22:48.18 | mckenziemc | true |
| 22:48.21 | Amarande | mckenziemc: us aff locks are really the only ones who need to |
| 22:48.22 | Dagmar | "Wait... you want me to remove a curse?" |
| 22:48.29 | Elkano | Shirik, DS9 had some great episodes, too :( |
| 22:48.30 | Amarande | which means FINALLY no more of the horrible pain of BC |
| 22:48.33 | Dagmar | "Frankly, I don't understand the question." |
| 22:48.45 | Amarande | I was an aff lock in BC, and remember it getting me killed on countless occasions against Inciter |
| 22:49.54 | nevcairiel | those bosses dont one-hit |
| 22:50.00 | nevcairiel | your tank sucked again |
| 22:50.07 | Amarande | nevcairiel: that was heavily class dependent then |
| 22:50.26 | durcyn | nevcairiel: looks like you forgot how much of a drama queen Amarande is |
| 22:50.34 | Amarande | it's a complete crapshoot where everyone will be after MC is over, and particularly if Blackheart is near you and a pally tank is not, they may not have time to regain aggro |
| 22:50.50 | Amarande | also, if you are a dot class you WILL have aggro after MC is over because MC is an aggro wipe |
| 22:51.01 | Dagmar | they may not have time to regain aggro before the nuke happy DPSers start up again? |
| 22:51.05 | nevcairiel | but dots expired while MC was running |
| 22:51.21 | Amarande | nev: did aggro wipe at the end of MC or beginning? I'm not sure on that |
| 22:51.37 | nevcairiel | In any case, you're just a suck magnet |
| 22:51.56 | Amarande | Dagmar: the issue was dots still being there after the aggro wipe |
| 22:52.21 | Amarande | In BC though it also depended a lot on the class of the tank |
| 22:52.33 | Amarande | even with that, if you had a Warrior or Druid tank you were fine, it was mostly with Paladin tanks that there was an issue |
| 22:52.39 | Shirik | Elkano: Too far and few between |
| 22:52.42 | nevcairiel | BC didnt even have LFD, so only you are too blame when you build a sucky group |
| 22:53.18 | Amarande | nev: on the flipside BC didn't have LFD, so if you were a latecomer without a raiding guild to back you up, you really didn't have much choice of groups |
| 22:53.32 | Shirik | Vanilla had LFD |
| 22:53.35 | mckenziemc | but nev, GearScore wasn't around back then!! |
| 22:53.36 | Shirik | MEETING STONES |
| 22:53.50 | nevcairiel | that kind of LFD was still around in BC, but noone used it |
| 22:53.57 | Amarande | also BC raid content was a lot more horizontal. |
| 22:54.09 | Amarande | made it harder for people with jobs to get a good raid guild. |
| 22:54.18 | nevcairiel | I have a job, and i raid |
| 22:54.22 | Thrae | I use "ElitistGroup" by this asshole named Shadowed who said he could do it better than GearScore. |
| 22:54.33 | Shadowed | I did, but I got one upped cause he sold out |
| 22:54.35 | Shadowed | and I didn't |
| 22:54.37 | Shadowed | so he won in the end! |
| 22:54.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Aurorus (~Aurorus@mail.enigma.net.au) |
| 22:54.57 | Amarande | by horizontal I mean that there were always multiple dungeons per tier, so raid guilds of course would want to be able to do multiple dungeons a week |
| 22:55.05 | Shadowed | also I'm pretty sure you meant that in past tense since EG doesn't work anymore :P |
| 22:55.10 | Amarande | which meant that most BC raid guilds I saw wanted you to be available to raid four or five nights a week |
| 22:55.12 | Thrae | Shadowed: How'd the GearScore author "sell out"? |
| 22:55.18 | Shadowed | Thrae he sold the rights to GearScore to TenTonHammer |
| 22:55.24 | Aurorus | yeah, I saw that |
| 22:55.28 | Thrae | Ahh |
| 22:55.34 | Amarande | Shadowed: also, Gearscore/Playerscore seems to now have a lot of the features for which EG existed, too |
| 22:55.35 | Aurorus | now you get a massive AdvertGearScore |
| 22:55.37 | Thrae | Wow WoWI is different today |
| 22:55.40 | Shadowed | yea |
| 22:55.47 | Shadowed | GearScore 4.0 is basically "Let's take everyone that EG does" |
| 22:55.50 | Shadowed | which is pretty hilarious |
| 22:56.30 | Arrowmaster | except everybody hates it |
| 22:56.36 | Shadowed | well the ironic thing is |
| 22:56.43 | Shadowed | actually not ironic, as much as hilarious |
| 22:56.45 | nevcairiel | Amarande: multiple instances or one big instances, whats the f'ing difference. Now we have basically 3 raids, which in total give us the same amount of bosses as ICC. |
| 22:56.48 | Amarande | Arrow: yeah everyone just uses the blizzard ilvl thing now |
| 22:56.54 | Shadowed | Is he missed the point of why people liked GearScore |
| 22:56.58 | Shadowed | and he tried to be EG |
| 22:57.22 | Shadowed | on top of GS 4 + the selling announcement, you basically end up with everyone calling him a sellout and hating the new GS version |
| 22:57.25 | Thrae | Shadowed: The reason why people like GS...one number that's based on fairly simple math? |
| 22:57.28 | Lunessa | *sigh* Tell someone there's a sticky and they want a link. ... YOUR EYES, DO THEY WORK, MOTHERFUCKER? Oh, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration? |
| 22:57.32 | Amarande | nev: haven't seen enough Cata raid content to fully judge that yet |
| 22:57.35 | Shadowed | yes, but that number is also listed everywhere Thrae |
| 22:57.39 | Amarande | was mostly comparing the BC raid environment to LK |
| 22:57.42 | Shadowed | like you can't see GS in tooltips anymore I believe |
| 22:57.50 | Arrowmaster | yeah for all of his 'GS is just a tool' it turns out all his users were the tools |
| 22:58.09 | Amarande | during every tier in BC, there were multiple raids to be done each week to kit people out |
| 22:58.27 | Amarande | in LK, that was only true for tier 7, after that each tier focused on a single raid |
| 22:58.32 | durcyn | ...every? you didn't spend very long farming BT, did you |
| 22:58.33 | Thrae | So what's the GearScore replacer now? |
| 22:58.34 | nevcairiel | Tempest Keep = 4, Coilfang = 6, + Gruul/Magtheridon = 12 |
| 22:58.37 | nevcairiel | same amount as ICC |
| 22:58.39 | nevcairiel | your point fails |
| 22:59.00 | Shadowed | pretty much Arrowmaster |
| 22:59.23 | Shadowed | he didn't understand his audience and tried to pretend GS was something it wasn't and got screwed cause of it |
| 22:59.27 | Shadowed | that's basically all there is to it :P |
| 22:59.30 | Amarande | nev: Hyjal = 5, BT = 9, Sunwell = 6 and all of those bosses made pretty much all of non-HC ICC seem like pansies |
| 22:59.44 | nevcairiel | Sunwell was the next tier after BT |
| 22:59.52 | Thrae | Shadowed: What do you recommend after Elitist Group? |
| 22:59.56 | Shadowed | there isn't anything |
| 23:00.11 | Shadowed | Anything else is a GS replacement, there aren't any EG replacements |
| 23:00.13 | Shadowed | addon-wise |
| 23:01.34 | Amarande | nev: it still seems to be a fact that many LK raid groups only needed one raid night a week, plus perhaps an ad-hoc scheduled completion night later in the week |
| 23:01.47 | Amarande | while most BC raid guilds seemed to expect four or five nights' availability |
| 23:01.49 | nevcairiel | We finished BT content in one raid night a week |
| 23:01.55 | Amarande | now only guilds like Ensidia call for that much |
| 23:02.12 | nevcairiel | And, we raid 5 nights a week in Cata right now. |
| 23:02.26 | Kraps | station |
| 23:02.36 | nevcairiel | ICC was only so slow because it was gated |
| 23:02.52 | nevcairiel | if they had unlocked full ICC from the beginning, you would've spend 5 nights in there |
| 23:03.14 | Aurorus | whats raiding like in Cata now? Do you need days and days per week to complete it? |
| 23:03.24 | nevcairiel | on normal its pretty easy |
| 23:04.25 | Amarande | I'm still wondering if Ensidia is going to recruit any members that aren't homemakers or on unemployment. :S |
| 23:04.31 | Kraps | a caveman could do iy |
| 23:04.34 | Kraps | it* |
| 23:04.42 | Amarande | they literally claim they want 24/7 raid availability. :P |
| 23:04.45 | Aurorus | who is Ensidia? |
| 23:04.53 | Amarande | Aurorus: major big name guild that does world firsts and such |
| 23:05.06 | Aurorus | ahh, cool - do they have a website Amarande? |
| 23:05.50 | Kraps | Aurorus: is the rock you live under nice? :p |
| 23:05.51 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (~opera@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 23:05.52 | Amarande | google "ensidia guild" |
| 23:06.08 | Amarande | oh, they're EU. no wonder they can get away with that. |
| 23:06.32 | Amarande | it would never work in the US's "people get fired for the slightest thing" job market most non-union employers have now |
| 23:06.55 | Amarande | remember, they're *not* joking when they say "24/7 raid availability". they're that crazy. :P |
| 23:07.35 | Thrae | They're so crazy they made this addon, along with "LibFail-1.0" and "LibFail-2.0" -- http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/ensidiafails.aspx |
| 23:07.43 | Dagmar | People need to just quit spanking around and build theorycrafting into the interface |
| 23:07.50 | Thrae | Just to let you know how much everyone else fails in comparison to Ensidia. |
| 23:08.00 | Arrowmaster | they didnt make libfail |
| 23:08.02 | cogwheel | View settings... Sort by newest, Sort by oldest, Sort by magic |
| 23:08.06 | cogwheel | O.o |
| 23:08.11 | Thrae | Arrowmaster: They assisted |
| 23:08.32 | Arrowmaster | i thought it was all sylvannar |
| 23:08.34 | Kraps | what is that |
| 23:08.55 | Thrae | Arrowmaster: Unless sylvannar is named "Maat" |
| 23:09.06 | Arrowmaster | @project libfail-1-0 |
| 23:09.08 | Repo | Arrowmaster: http://www.wowace.com/addons/libfail-1-0/. LibFail-1.0. Game: WoW. sylvanaar (Manager/Author), Maat (Author), mysticalos (Author), Rinu (Author), sztanpet (Author), Endeavour (Tester). Updated: 73 days ago. Tickets: 8/44 |
| 23:09.23 | Thrae | Yeah, that was 1.0, which is now deprecated for 2.0 |
| 23:09.28 | Thrae | @project libfail-2.0 |
| 23:09.29 | Repo | Thrae: No project found that matches 'libfail-2.0' |
| 23:09.30 | Kraps | "Happy Non-Sectarian, Seasonally-Adjusted Greetings!" |
| 23:09.43 | Arrowmaster | well sylvannar started libfail-1.0 alone i thought |
| 23:09.48 | Thrae | @project libfail-2-0 |
| 23:09.49 | Repo | Thrae: http://www.wowace.com/addons/libfail-2-0/. LibFail-2.0. Game: WoW. Status: Experimental. Maat (Manager/Author). Updated: 8 hours ago. Tickets: 1/3 |
| 23:09.49 | nevcairiel | Maat is the ensidia guy, anyhow |
| 23:10.05 | nevcairiel | caleb| or something on irc |
| 23:10.16 | Amarande | Ensidia are insane, anyway. Take this from an actual interview line: |
| 23:10.18 | Amarande | "People take 1-2 days off from work and school, and fix things they need to fix." |
| 23:10.45 | nevcairiel | I don't get it, i also take a day off when i have something to fix |
| 23:10.48 | nevcairiel | needs more context :P |
| 23:10.53 | Kraps | lol |
| 23:11.09 | Kraps | gives nevcairiel a context |
| 23:11.10 | Thrae | Arrowmaster: sylvanaar certainly deserves the credit of making the API and his accomplishments on libfail-1.0, but obviously they got too crazy for him |
| 23:11.42 | Amarande | nev: this interview with one of their priests has him saying that during Ensidia's ICC progression, people would arrange to get extra time off from work and school (probably meaning SKIPPING CLASS in the latter case) in order to raid ... |
| 23:12.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Sapu (~Sapu94@adsl-75-45-101-35.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:12.22 | Amarande | It's not till their third or fourth day that they seem to realize that people have commitments. :) |
| 23:12.31 | Thrae | Hey some people have sporting events in the real world, some people have Raiding events in a virtual world, some people have sporting events in a made-up world |
| 23:12.43 | Kraps | lets see how much money steam will take from me today |
| 23:13.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@fibhost-66-83-191.fibernet.hu) |
| 23:13.27 | mckenziemc | :o |
| 23:13.41 | Thrae | Amarande: For some reason I just pictured a woman saying over vent, "Crap, be back in 5 minutes need to finish giving birth!" and someone replying, "Great, now we'll have an extra!" |
| 23:13.50 | Kraps | i need a new video card(s) |
| 23:13.59 | Kraps | mine are broke |
| 23:14.08 | Thrae | Kraps: What do you have now, and what's your monitor's native resolution? |
| 23:14.37 | mckenziemc | 1x1 |
| 23:14.37 | Thrae | Kraps: Steam is already eating me -- http://www.steamcalculator.com/id/gnmx |
| 23:14.55 | mckenziemc | 1 pixel monitor ftw |
| 23:15.21 | Kraps | 2 9800GTs, not sure what the native is but i use 1440x900 |
| 23:15.23 | Thrae | mckenziemc: I have a 7" monitor in my setup |
| 23:15.39 | Thrae | Kraps: They're both broken? |
| 23:15.51 | Amarande | I guess I'm just too sane for a lot of the raiding community, seeing that I don't think one should be willing to cut back from one's job in order to meet raid needs |
| 23:16.08 | Amarande | That's one of those points when you should start to realize you take the game too seriously ... :| |
| 23:16.10 | nevcairiel | get a pair of 460's, their scaling is awesome, and they are really affordable .. unless you insist on paying more :p |
| 23:16.26 | mckenziemc | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:16.30 | nevcairiel | or wait for the 560 ^ |
| 23:16.32 | nevcairiel | if you can |
| 23:16.52 | Kraps | Thrae: i dont actually know, it would work ok with 1? |
| 23:17.03 | Thrae | Kraps: Yes |
| 23:17.05 | Amarande | nev, should raiders be willing to structure their job around raids, or am I right that that's a definition of insanity and irresponsibility? |
| 23:17.19 | mckenziemc | i use a single 9800 GT at 1650x1080 >< |
| 23:17.31 | Kraps | 1680x1050 is native |
| 23:17.40 | mckenziemc | woops |
| 23:17.42 | nevcairiel | like Thrae said, some people structure their whole life around their sporting events, whats wrong with doing the same for your raiding events. A hobby is a hobby |
| 23:17.50 | Kraps | mckenziemc: how old is your card? |
| 23:17.55 | Thrae | Kraps: If you have two cards in SLI the performance enhancement is an average of 50% on games that support it and around 80% on games that are optimized for it. |
| 23:17.59 | mckenziemc | couple years i think |
| 23:18.12 | mckenziemc | i had a GTX+ but it burned out >< |
| 23:18.22 | Kraps | mine are at least 2 y/old too |
| 23:18.26 | mckenziemc | no heat sensor ftl |
| 23:18.41 | Kraps | gief heat sensor |
| 23:18.42 | nevcairiel | SLI scaling will actually get you more,newer games that are optimized for it can even go to 90-100% increase |
| 23:19.01 | Thrae | Kraps: I would upgrade your monitor along with your video card if you want increased image quality. The higher your monitor's native resolution that your games support, the less you need to worry about Anti-Aliasing (AA). |
| 23:19.05 | Kraps | i think the problem is burnout actually |
| 23:19.48 | mckenziemc | i had my computer open since i was working with an extra hard drive, and the hard drive cable blocked the video card fan without me noticing |
| 23:19.50 | Kraps | Thrae: yeah, my monitor is pretty meh, but i dont use the native res |
| 23:20.01 | Thrae | AA is pretty resource-intensive. With my native of 2560x1600 I do fine on 2xAA |
| 23:20.23 | Thrae | Kraps: Well that's a problem too for image quality. Most LCDs perform best at their native resolution. |
| 23:20.55 | Kraps | can i set it to switch to native when launching a game? :p |
| 23:21.02 | Thrae | Lower resolutions just look worse, not counting the stretching / upscaling that may be involved. |
| 23:21.09 | Thrae | Kraps: You can set it in the game, normally... |
| 23:21.26 | Kraps | oic |
| 23:21.33 | Kraps | i know that |
| 23:21.34 | Thrae | You can have your desktop be like 800x600 and the game be 2560x1600 if you want. |
| 23:21.40 | Kraps | yeah |
| 23:21.51 | Thrae | The game will then switch the resolution, unless it's a windowed game. |
| 23:21.54 | Kraps | i thought you meant the desktop res |
| 23:22.13 | Arrowmaster | i just added up everything in my steam store transaction log and its only $152.99 vs $1172.07 on steamcalculator |
| 23:22.17 | Amarande | Thrae: also hence why pre-PS3/360 games actually look worse on an HDTV a lot of the time. :| |
| 23:22.34 | Thrae | Although I think WoW can switch your desktop res for you while set to windowed |
| 23:23.04 | Amarande | although part of that is that apparently one of the means of dealing with the antialiasing issue on consoles prior to the HDTV boom was "it doesn't matter, CRT televisions are blurry enough that it won't be too visible" |
| 23:23.17 | mikma | http://slide.fi/wow/bow_murloc.jpg |
| 23:23.34 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: current consoles have antialiasing issues too |
| 23:23.54 | Thrae | Amarande: Yeah. It depends on the HDTV too as well as the console settings. Both the PS3 and Xbox360 have their own upscaling which may or may not be better than your HDTV's. |
| 23:24.47 | Arrowmaster | and its not possible to get a non upscaled digital signal out of them right |
| 23:24.56 | Thrae | Personally I'm glad that cross-platform compatibility with PC is so high on everyone's list, so I can just keep upgrading my PC. |
| 23:25.18 | Amarande | Arrow: yeah but if you look at text in say a lot of PS2 games |
| 23:25.37 | Thrae | Arrowmaster: I remember you can turn it off for BC like PS2/PS1. |
| 23:25.39 | Amarande | you can tell the font was designed based on the idea that it didn't need to worry too much about AA because the blurriness of CRT pixels would have taken care of it |
| 23:25.54 | Amarande | whereas on a LCD TV it looks noticeably jaggy |
| 23:27.08 | Arrowmaster | text looks horrible in PS2/PS1 games for me anyway since i have to play them with a composite signal and my expensive PC LCD doesnt have good filters and upscalers on the composite input |
| 23:27.22 | Amarande | Thrae: I'm kinda surprised Microsoft hasn't tried to sunset DirectX in Windows yet |
| 23:27.36 | Amarande | Arrow: you can get component cables for PS2 |
| 23:27.48 | Arrowmaster | dont have component input |
| 23:28.26 | Arrowmaster | just vga/dvi/svideo/composite |
| 23:28.40 | Thrae | Arrowmaster: Looking at the PS3 manual online right now just for fun, it just occured to me...I bet if there's any upscaling on the PS3 for a <1080P game when set to output to 1080P, you can probably disable it by just setting it to the game's native resolution. But there's no easy way to tell that, eh? |
| 23:29.15 | Arrowmaster | and this is a pre HDCP LCD so i cant use an hdmi to dvi cable |
| 23:29.20 | Thrae | I bought the outrageously expensive Monster Component cables for my softmodded PS2 back in the day, and by damn, they're still useful along with the softmodded PS2 itself. |
| 23:29.28 | Kraps | Thrae: someone suggested i should get a single 5770 |
| 23:30.02 | Arrowmaster | Thrae: console games tend to use native resolutions that arent supported by TVs so they dont work over hdmi |
| 23:30.40 | Thrae | Kraps: ATI 5770 1GB is more like a GTX 460 SE. The Nvidia GTX 460 1GB is better comparable to an ATI 5850 1GB. All of these are $200 USD or less. |
| 23:30.52 | Kraps | cool |
| 23:31.07 | Kraps | i was also wondering about power |
| 23:31.25 | Kraps | if i need to buy more or whatever |
| 23:31.47 | Thrae | Kraps: If you were running two 9800 GTs effectively then you should be fine. The ATI cards need less power than Nvidia. The GTX 460 SE needs less than the GTX 460. |
| 23:32.03 | Thrae | But most likely your current PSU will be fine |
| 23:32.37 | Thrae | Again, I would be more concerned about your monitor. Upgrade that -- you can get 1920x1080/1200 for ~$150 USD or less |
| 23:32.50 | Thrae | Around 22" |
| 23:33.15 | Thrae | Keep the old one for multi-monitor fun running windowed-capable games like WoW |
| 23:33.18 | Kraps | this is it? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130591&cm_re=geforce_gtx_460_se-_-14-130-591-_-Product |
| 23:33.26 | Arrowmaster | finding a 22" in that res is hard, they start using that res at 23" |
| 23:33.43 | Arrowmaster | but not all 23" use it |
| 23:33.45 | Thrae | Yeah that's the SE version which is inferior to the non-SE version |
| 23:33.51 | Kraps | oh |
| 23:33.57 | Kraps | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125333 |
| 23:34.02 | Arrowmaster | all 24" will be 1920x1080/1200 |
| 23:34.18 | Thrae | Kraps: Yep that's the 460 1GB |
| 23:34.42 | Kraps | 2 fans :o |
| 23:34.59 | Amarande | Arrow: what I find weird btw, in that regard |
| 23:35.15 | Amarande | obviously, 22"-24" screens can be 1080p res capable, as the computer monitors have that res |
| 23:35.28 | Amarande | but TVs, you have to go to the mid-30's or even the 40's to get 1080p most of the time |
| 23:35.41 | Amarande | why don't they use those hi-res panels in the 20-29" size TVs? |
| 23:35.49 | *** join/#wowuidev me345 (~me345@adsl-71-131-133-80.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 23:35.53 | nevcairiel | Because you dont see the difference |
| 23:35.54 | Arrowmaster | TV and PC displays are very very different |
| 23:36.07 | nevcairiel | You're not looking to read tiny text |
| 23:36.08 | Amarande | my PC has a 24" monitor with 1920x1200 ... my TV is 26", and only 720p |
| 23:36.11 | nevcairiel | you're watching movies |
| 23:36.41 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 23:36.43 | Arrowmaster | the worse thing though is that those 720p TVs are rarely ever 1280x720 |
| 23:36.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Dagmar (1000@unaffiliated/dagmar) |
| 23:37.00 | nevcairiel | they are some weird resolution thats somewhere above that |
| 23:37.18 | Thrae | Kraps: That's just Gigabyte's version of the 460. The reference model of the 460 1GB has one fan. Both of them are rather loud...but probably just as loud as your current 2x 9800 GTs. |
| 23:37.18 | foxlit | You're sitting how close to your TV? :) |
| 23:37.24 | Arrowmaster | 1366x786 |
| 23:37.34 | Arrowmaster | 1366x768 |
| 23:37.34 | nevcairiel | The gigabyte version of the card is really silent |
| 23:37.37 | nevcairiel | their fan is awesome |
| 23:37.47 | nevcairiel | or fans |
| 23:37.49 | nevcairiel | rather :p |
| 23:38.08 | Thrae | nevcairiel: Yeah I've heard that, but during intense gaming it will not be silent ;) |
| 23:38.08 | nevcairiel | much better then the reference |
| 23:38.22 | Dagmar | That's why man invented rubber grommets |
| 23:38.23 | Arrowmaster | dont know why they use 1366x768 instead of just making a 1280x720 panel with a higher dot pitch |
| 23:38.32 | nevcairiel | with some overall ventilation in your case, it doesnt really go that high on the fans |
| 23:38.39 | nevcairiel | even on 100% gpu load |
| 23:38.44 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Probably because they didn't make the panel, they just bought it from a subcontractor |
| 23:38.54 | nevcairiel | the 460 is pretty nice in that regard |
| 23:38.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Nobgul (~none@ool-43557559.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:38.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Nobgul (~none@unaffiliated/nobgul) |
| 23:39.07 | nevcairiel | its not a GF100 :) |
| 23:39.24 | nevcairiel | (i have a gigabyte 460 1gb) |
| 23:39.37 | Thrae | Honestly I don't know why EVGA (who makes all the reference boards) went with the GTX 200-series design of once again having the fan at the "bottom" with just a big piece of plastic to vent it through. |
| 23:39.37 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@c-76-114-170-138.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:39.37 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 23:39.37 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: yeah but the panels for TVs and PCs are very different too, those panels were designed and made to be used in a TV but they make them in 1366x768 |
| 23:40.10 | Arrowmaster | or maybe thats only the high end 1080p panels |
| 23:40.17 | Thrae | I will probably have to change the cooler on this EVGA GTX 470 OC I own. I already put EVGA's backplate on it. |
| 23:40.20 | Dagmar | I think they just want you to believe they're more different than they are |
| 23:40.30 | Arrowmaster | most 720p TVs seem like they are using cheap ass TN panels anyway |
| 23:40.42 | nevcairiel | Thrae: at least they put a vapor chamber on the 5xx, that really helps alot |
| 23:41.19 | Thrae | nevcairiel: Yeah they got better, and my GTX 470 OC was post-460 so it has the better design, not the original, worse design |
| 23:41.33 | Thrae | (I had a bunch of coupons for the 470) |
| 23:41.35 | nevcairiel | the chip didnt get better |
| 23:41.44 | Thrae | I'm not talking about the chip |
| 23:41.52 | nevcairiel | its just highly inefficient |
| 23:41.53 | Thrae | I thought we were talking about cooling |
| 23:41.58 | Arrowmaster | im still waiting to find my perfect 24" widescreen non-wide gaumet IPS LCD to replace my current 20" |
| 23:42.46 | Kraps | gah, the price jump from the 460 to 470 |
| 23:42.47 | nevcairiel | thats just the thing, the original GF100 (480 470 and 465) was just so inefficient that the stock coolers just are more noisier by design |
| 23:43.08 | Thrae | Arrowmaster: I was looking for a cheap 26" or higher HDTV for the living room to replace an old 24" non-HDTV monitor and found a rather cheap 26" LG 1920x1080 with an IPS panel for only $250 w/ shipping. |
| 23:43.14 | nevcairiel | dont get a 470. If you want faster, go 570, or wait for the 560 |
| 23:43.33 | Arrowmaster | Thrae: thats an HDTV though, i need a PC monitor |
| 23:43.35 | Dagmar | At this point, waiting |
| 23:43.36 | Thrae | Kraps: There's no reason to go anywhere above 460 anymore. |
| 23:43.45 | bindi | for wow you need 460 |
| 23:43.47 | bindi | cpubased shit |
| 23:44.26 | Kraps | nevcairiel: i'm getting 2 so i need a bit cheaper :p |
| 23:44.36 | Thrae | Kraps , nevcairiel : I only got a 470 over a 460 because there wasn't any of the 500 series yet, and the 470 was cheaper after my discounts. |
| 23:45.29 | Thrae | Kraps: Do you *need* to buy two cards at once? Note that the even the Gigabyte 460 1GB takes up TWO slots while your 9800 GTs both take up 1 slot. You should check your case first. |
| 23:45.47 | Kraps | eh |
| 23:45.55 | nevcairiel | i havent seen a case that wouldnt have 4 slots |
| 23:46.12 | nevcairiel | and any sli certified motherboard already accounts for that in pci-e placement |
| 23:46.16 | KarlKFI | only the micro atx or small format ones |
| 23:46.21 | Kraps | time to harass my brother |
| 23:46.24 | Thrae | nevcairiel: He might have something in the other slots, or as many people have found, have problems fitting it into a mid-tower case. |
| 23:47.11 | Kraps | i have a dell xps |
| 23:47.18 | Kraps | fwiw |
| 23:47.28 | nevcairiel | isnt that a laptop? :P |
| 23:47.34 | Thrae | Kraps: Just one overclocked 460 1GB should be enough, even with a new 1920x1200 monitor, for reasonably high settings on games like WoW. You can get another one later, when they're even cheaper after the 560 comes out. |
| 23:47.48 | Thrae | XPS can be either a desktop or a laptop :) |
| 23:48.00 | Kraps | nevcairiel: xps is their gaming line |
| 23:48.41 | Thrae | Specifically, XPS is their "High Performance" line for Multimedia and "Medium Gaming". Alienware is specifically Dell's gaming line. |
| 23:49.02 | Thrae | worked for Dell...but only third-party! |
| 23:49.08 | Kraps | Medium Gaming :p |
| 23:49.26 | KarlKFI | xps was the gamign line before they bought alienware |
| 23:49.29 | Thrae | Kraps: Once Dell ate up Alienware that's what they started saying |
| 23:49.51 | Amarande | Full-tower cases FTW |
| 23:50.02 | nevcairiel | not really |
| 23:50.05 | Thrae | KarlKFI: Yeah...that's why I had it in quotes. Depending on the build, the price:performance can be much better in XPS than Alienware's blinky POS. |
| 23:50.19 | Dagmar | Full-tower cases because trying to pack a bunch of wires into a mini-ATX is bullshit |
| 23:50.26 | nevcairiel | what do i need a bulky full tower if its mostly empty anyway |
| 23:50.37 | Dagmar | nevcariel: MASSIVE heat sinks. ;) |
| 23:50.37 | nevcairiel | any mid-tower can take E-ATX, what more do i need |
| 23:50.44 | Thrae | Mine are definitely not empty, heh |
| 23:50.57 | nevcairiel | I have my storage in a dedicated storage box |
| 23:51.00 | Dagmar | I'll deal with mid-towers, although they're harder to soundproof than full-towers |
| 23:51.04 | cbreak | I never had a better case than now with my Mac Pro. |
| 23:51.04 | Dagmar | Less space to shove in bits of foam |
| 23:51.07 | Kraps | yeah mine looks claustrophobic inside |
| 23:51.09 | nevcairiel | so my tower has one optical drive, one magnetic drive, and one ssd |
| 23:51.50 | Thrae | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129043 <-- this thing is about as tall as my 30", including the monitor's stand |
| 23:52.19 | Kraps | tigerdirect doesnt have gigabyte cards |
| 23:52.20 | Dagmar | That's not a case for people who don't like white noise tho |
| 23:52.38 | Kraps | the company |
| 23:52.40 | Dagmar | Looks damn hardcore tho |
| 23:52.44 | nevcairiel | i just got this one; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129061&Tpk=Antec%20P183 |
| 23:52.48 | Thrae | The default 120mm fans are nice, but I replaced some of them with better CFM. My best one is a 110CFM CoolerMaster on the side. |
| 23:52.55 | Arrowmaster | nevcairiel: external drive box or NAS/server? |
| 23:53.01 | nevcairiel | server |
| 23:53.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Zhinjio (~Geo@home.trippy.org) |
| 23:53.24 | Thrae | It has an excellent decibel range for being 110CFM, about half of what normally you'd find in the 100+ CFM range |
| 23:53.39 | Kraps | this looks badass http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6705587&CatId=2513 |
| 23:53.51 | nevcairiel | even with over-clocking, i never had the need to pump that much air over my components |
| 23:54.15 | Thrae | Dagmar: Yeah my server is about as loud as it is, and I don't have Central Air so in the summer my air conditioner (which is right next to the tower's intake) is the loudest thing in the room by far. |
| 23:54.20 | cbreak | big fans can be slow and therefore quieter. |
| 23:54.47 | nevcairiel | Sure, big fans are nice, but not if you want 110CFM :P |
| 23:54.52 | Kraps | erp its 768mb |
| 23:55.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Theosco (~Zouch@174-20-223-207.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 23:55.10 | Thrae | Kraps: I actually hear good things about the Cyclone and they do have 1GB versions of it |
| 23:55.20 | Thrae | Kraps: I wouldn't order from TigerDirect though unless you have a special reason to |
| 23:55.44 | Theosco | anyone know why EsEquippableItem() wouldn't work with hyperlinks? |
| 23:55.44 | nevcairiel | I have a 120mm sitting here thats at 39CFM, and its noise level is around the typical background noise of a normal room |
| 23:55.53 | Kraps | i got stuff from them a while back, why not? |
| 23:55.56 | Theosco | IsEquipableItem()* |
| 23:56.04 | nevcairiel | tripple the CFM, i bet its clearly audible |
| 23:56.38 | Thrae | Kraps: If you ever have a problem with your order, they have horrible customer support. Unlike Newegg which still is one of the best out there outside of smaller online retailers. |
| 23:56.58 | Thrae | Kraps: Might as well not take the chance unless you're getting some great discount compared to Newegg |
| 23:57.28 | Thrae | Especially the more you order from Newegg the more they seem to love you. |
| 23:57.37 | Kraps | lol |
| 23:57.49 | Kraps | how do they show their love? :p |
| 23:58.13 | Kraps | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127510 |
| 23:58.30 | Thrae | Kraps: Waiving restocking fees, paying for return shipping, no-questions-asked returns, etc. |
| 23:58.36 | Kraps | "In stock. Limit 99 per customer. " |
| 23:58.54 | KarlKFI | i like newegg, but amazon has cheaper/faster shipping if you can find the same thing there. |
| 23:59.07 | KarlKFI | newegg has better selection tho |
| 23:59.10 | Dagmar | They've yet to send me a Christmas card |
| 23:59.18 | Thrae | KarlKFI: Yeah, if it's actually coming from Amazon |
| 23:59.18 | Dagmar | Dominos sent me a christmas card |
| 23:59.23 | Arrowmaster | i got no interest for 1 year payment option from newegg when i built my last system |
| 23:59.55 | Amarande | Kraps: But ... but ... I need my 100x SLI that can model the entire real world in perfect detail at 10000x8000! :) |
