IRC log for #wowuidev on 20101214

`00:00.05`	`*** join/#wowuidev aualin (~Mikael@c-89-233-211-62.cust.bredband2.com)`
`00:00.47`	`*** join/#wowuidev Ketho (~Ketho@ip565063bd.direct-adsl.nl)`
`00:08.45`	`*** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@c-76-114-170-138.hsd1.md.comcast.net)`
`00:08.45`	`*** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko)`
`00:17.14`	`*** join/#wowuidev kapipi (~kapipi@raichu.netlab.jp)`
`00:36.00`	`Napoleone`	`are there still problems with new water effects and resizing worldframe?`
`00:39.54`	`jnwhiteh`	`and the sky, I think`
`00:41.23`	`*** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
`00:41.24`	`Napoleone`	`still sucks`
`00:41.52`	`\|Jelly\|`	`Any 85 dks in here coming to find our 85 ability completely useless?`
`00:43.18`	`Xyphoid`	`does it not work?`
`00:43.23`	`Xyphoid`	`my dk is only 82 so far`
`00:43.52`	`Aurorus`	`what ability is that \|Jelly\| ?`
`00:44.27`	`Xyphoid`	`dark simulacrum`
`00:44.54`	`Napoleone`	`the identical spell thing?`
`00:44.57`	`jnwhiteh`	`its a pvp ability`
`00:44.58`	`jnwhiteh`	`sems`
`00:44.59`	`jnwhiteh`	`seems`
`00:45.06`	`Aurorus`	`what does it do?`
`00:45.21`	`jnwhiteh`	`i'm gone for 2 weeks after tonight`
`00:45.23`	`jnwhiteh`	`btw :P`
`00:45.33`	`jnwhiteh`	`so email or directly ping me to get me a message`
`00:45.35`	`Xyphoid`	`hit bob with it, bob casts fireball, you get a fireball`
`00:45.38`	`jnwhiteh`	`i'll collect them when I log in`
`00:45.51`	`\|Jelly\|`	`Except according to the tooltip, it doesn't work like that in pvp.`
`00:46.17`	`\|Jelly\|`	`nevermind ... i'm backwards`
`00:46.46`	`Xyphoid`	`have you tried it out? what i was curious about was whether it works if you cast it during casting`
`00:46.49`	`Xyphoid`	`or if it has to be in advance`
`00:47.03`	`\|Jelly\|`	`it works the opposite of what I thought`
`00:47.11`	`\|Jelly\|`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/Dark_Simulacrum`
`00:47.53`	`\|Jelly\|`	`So GG both level 83 and 85 abilities are pvp`
`00:48.04`	`Thrae`	`\|Jelly\|: Need on the http://www.wowhead.com/item=56136, which for some reason DKs can need on, and for some reason also totally absorbs one hit no matter how much damage :D`
`00:48.40`	`Thrae`	`Hehe, "You get hit for 0 damage (500,000 absorbed)"`
`00:50.02`	`jnwhiteh`	`\|Jelly\|: resto druids had 0 new spells. 0.`
`00:50.02`	`Xyphoid`	`i'm just looking forward to finding out what old raid boss abilities they've forgotten to flag no-dark-simulacrum`
`00:50.13`	`\|Jelly\|`	`plays a resto druid too.`
`00:50.22`	`jnwhiteh`	`=(`
`00:50.24`	`jnwhiteh`	`sad`
`00:50.37`	`\|Jelly\|`	`indeed`
`00:50.47`	`*** join/#wowuidev Mirrormn (~Mirrormn@h185.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)`
`00:52.10`	`Thrae`	`"\|Jelly\| casts Veil of Winter! Lich King takes 200,121 damage."`
`00:52.38`	`\|Jelly\|`	`lol`
`00:52.38`	`*** join/#wowuidev Xalem (~xalem@82.245.3.64)`
`00:56.20`	`Thrae`	`I think the Wowhead comments sound apt -- "In PvE, Dark Simulacrum turns out to be a Death Coil for 12 less runic power."`
`01:02.12`	`Thrae`	`\|Jelly\|: Note that unlike Spell Reflection, you can run around with the "captured" spell for supposedly however long you want (probably either has a log-off and/or OOC restriction), but you still have to eat the spell. Now I hear needing to burn down adds in raids is even more popular in Cata.`
`01:02.14`	`Napoleone`	`wow that spell is useless in pvp`
`01:03.23`	`Thrae`	`Napoleone: Not really -- http://www.wowhead.com/spell=77606#comments:40`
`01:03.28`	`Xyphoid`	`i'm just going to run around in battlegrounds casting it on random people`
`01:03.50`	`Thrae`	`"You can steal Mirror Image, Fear, Bloodlust, Pally Bubbles"`
`01:03.56`	`Xyphoid`	`it'll be a big surprise what spell i get`
`01:04.25`	`Xyphoid`	`the first divine intervention will be a big shock i suspect`
`01:04.39`	`\|Jelly\|`	`roflmao`
`01:04.56`	`Thrae`	`Here's a list someone made from Beta -- http://www.wowhead.com/spell=77606#comments:id=1114622`
`01:05.13`	`Thrae`	`Haha DKs going into Shadowform`
`01:05.20`	`Thrae`	`Or Ghost Wolf`
`01:05.30`	`Xyphoid`	`moonkin?`
`01:05.34`	`Thrae`	`That just owns right there, regardless of how "powerful" it is`
`01:06.02`	`Thrae`	`I bet it'll grab the Druid shapes too if it grabs Ghost Wolf`
`01:07.12`	`Thrae`	`In Beta the spell you steal always has no cast time, regardless if the actual spell stolen has cast time`
`01:07.31`	`Thrae`	`And it says it scales on AP and you have 20 seconds to use it. So no running around with it forever =/`
`01:07.44`	`Xyphoid`	`oh, divine intervention is gone? sadface`
`01:07.56`	`*** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (~Mike-N-Go@64.193.93.197)`
`01:08.16`	`Thrae`	`http://www.wowhead.com/spell=77606#comments:id=1139374 <-- I'd like to see if this is true. DS Devouring Plague and Pestilence it :D`
`01:08.37`	`*** join/#wowuidev Malediction (Buggery@87-194-9-199.bethere.co.uk)`
`01:09.03`	`*** join/#wowuidev [Wobin] (~quassel@124-168-59-253.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`01:10.08`	`Thrae`	`Perhaps most importantly is the http://www.wowhead.com/spell=77606#comments:id=1229574 comment which says you can DS any CC and throw it back while under the influence of said CC`
`01:11.10`	`Thrae`	`DS Priest -> Get Feared -> DS Fear Priest while you're Feared -> Both of you are now Feared`
`01:13.52`	`Thrae`	`\|Jelly\|: According to http://www.wowhead.com/spell=77606#comments:id=1175732 while the bosses's spells may be immune, the trash right next to the bosses are not. In this case they DS'd "Shadow Blast" which takes off 80% health and used it on a boss.`
`01:14.06`	`Thrae`	`s/are not/may not be/`
`01:17.24`	`Xyphoid`	`he's just speculating about that right?`
`01:17.29`	`Xyphoid`	`hasn't actually tried it?`
`01:17.31`	`Thrae`	`Not sure`
`01:17.43`	`Thrae`	`In speculating he's speculating but his English is too poor to tell`
`01:18.16`	`Thunder_Child`	`he isnt the only one`
`01:18.56`	`*** join/#wowuidev Net (~Netcurse@70-36-245-202.dsl.static.sonic.net)`
`01:20.02`	`*** join/#wowuidev Lulia1 (~BleaS@pool-173-76-192-176.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)`
`01:21.09`	`*** join/#wowuidev bleeter_ (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter)`
`01:21.58`	`*** join/#wowuidev amro (~amro@li37-20.members.linode.com)`
`01:39.34`	`*** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus^ (~WiN@81.174.255.129)`
`01:40.39`	`Napoleone`	`hmm`
`01:40.52`	`Napoleone`	`Thrae it doesnt work on palyers but it does?`
`01:45.35`	`smcn`	`Thrae: it specifically says "spends mana", shadow blast (along with many npc spells) has no mana cost`
`01:45.47`	`smcn`	`"triggering when the enemy next spends mana on a spell"`
`01:46.54`	`Thrae`	`smcn: Hmm, there might be exceptions`
`01:47.28`	`Thrae`	`Anyway, what's the command to bring up the Real ID window?`
`01:48.08`	`*** join/#wowuidev Afflicto (~IceChat7@ti0097a380-dhcp0284.bb.online.no)`
`01:48.12`	`Thrae`	`Or how to friend people.`
`01:48.23`	`Afflicto`	`Hello everyone :)`
`01:49.43`	`Afflicto`	`I'm new to this IRC channel, and I was wondering if anyone have an idea on Animated images in WoW. For instance, making KGPanels cycle a panels BG File between 1-20 different images?`
`01:50.30`	`Napoleone`	`koh god.. not my area ;)`
`01:50.45`	`Afflicto`	`=P`
`01:55.37`	`*** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@71-88-41-93.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com)`
`01:55.49`	`Amarande`	`oooookay. now I'm stumped.`
`01:55.57`	`Amarande`	`where is the pre-heroics plate helm for DPS?`
`01:56.06`	`Nobgul`	`I don't tink you can change images on the fly, while in the game.`
`01:56.18`	`Amarande`	`I'm looking through all the dungeon drops and rep stuff and I'm finding only tanking and holydin helms`
`01:56.50`	`Nobgul`	`Amarande, The vendor in org?`
`01:57.12`	`Amarande`	`Nobgul: that's Justice Points, right?`
`01:57.31`	`Amarande`	`sadly, it's not a very simple task to get both JPs and rep efficiently before heroics, at least not on this battlegroup`
`01:58.10`	`Amarande`	`and I need rep for other items :S`
`01:58.44`	`Xyphoid`	`http://www.wowhead.com/items=4.4?filter=qu=3;sl=1;minle=300;cr=20:45:79;crs=1:3:3;crv=0:0:0`
`01:59.24`	`Xyphoid`	`whoops http://www.wowhead.com/items=4.4?filter=qu=3;sl=1;minle=300;cr=20:45:79:46;crs=1:3:3:3;crv=0:0:0:0`
`01:59.31`	`Xyphoid`	`(set parry to 0 too)`
`02:00.09`	`Thrae`	`Yeah JPs are a PITA to get quickly before Heroics`
`02:00.32`	`Thrae`	`I wish Blizzard hadn't destroyed my 1-80 Heirloom set`
`02:00.38`	`*** join/#wowuidev Ketho (~Ketho@ip565063bd.direct-adsl.nl)`
`02:01.20`	`Amarande`	`Thrae: and yet, it seems like that's the only real way to get a real DPS helm before heroics, unless you knew far enough ahead of time to do TotT over and over and over until you got the helm there before hitting 84?`
`02:01.58`	`Xyphoid`	`redsteel helm's okay`
`02:02.23`	`Amarande`	`Helm of Vicious Direction doesn't appear to exist. Helm of Easeful Death needs 2200 JP. Helm of Fatal Vision probably costs thousands.`
`02:03.15`	`Thrae`	`Amarande: You can't do Normal Dungeons at 85?`
`02:03.15`	`Amarande`	`You know, I wonder how people are going to gear up after Cata's been underway for a while, given that the ilvl requirement for heroics is pretty vicious without getting a number of drops from normals first`
`02:03.18`	`Xyphoid`	`redsteel helm gets you your meta slot and is heroic ilvl`
`02:03.25`	`Amarande`	`Thrae: TotT and BRC stop being normal queuable at 84`
`02:03.34`	`*** join/#wowuidev orgevo_ (~orgevo@98.26.72.224)`
`02:03.36`	`Thrae`	`Ah that's stupid`
`02:03.41`	`Amarande`	`you can only get SC, VP, HoO, LC, and GB`
`02:03.49`	`Amarande`	`and that's also sucky in and of itself`
`02:04.00`	`Amarande`	`since you have to be 85 for quite some time before you can do heroics, due to the ilvl crap`
`02:04.27`	`Amarande`	`which means, you're trying to get JPs and rep so you can buy the rep gear`
`02:04.39`	`Napoleone`	`ilvl crap i wouldnt say`
`02:04.43`	`Xyphoid`	`redsteel helm is better than the helm from the normal instance`
`02:04.46`	`Napoleone`	`HC's arent a walk in the park anymore`
`02:04.56`	`Amarande`	`and you really can't do both efficiently, since if you queue randoms (only way to get JP before heroics), you have a LARGE chance of getting stuck with SC or VP, which you can't rep in`
`02:04.57`	`Thrae`	`Amarande: What about LK Heroics?`
`02:04.59`	`Xyphoid`	`a level 85 green is better than a 81 blue so there you go`
`02:05.08`	`Amarande`	`Thrae: those become unavailable at 83, IIRC`
`02:05.25`	`Thrae`	`Ah that's stupid too.`
`02:05.39`	`Xyphoid`	`http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=55229;55031`
`02:06.00`	`Amarande`	`Xyphoid: you do have to remember one thing though`
`02:06.06`	`Amarande`	`currently, mining nodes are scarce as all get out`
`02:06.27`	`Amarande`	`which means basically anything crafted except for herb and leather based stuff is ridiculously overpriced`
`02:06.29`	`Xyphoid`	`30 elementium!`
`02:06.29`	`Thrae`	`Speaking of things that are stupid, are Chaos Orbs still BoP?`
`02:06.31`	`Xyphoid`	`oh no`
`02:06.41`	`Amarande`	`Xyphoid: I looked at say leveling my JC`
`02:06.55`	`Amarande`	`and I'm noting that basic green Cata gems, uncut, go for 100-150g each.`
`02:07.12`	`Amarande`	`(And then they're worth maybe 10-15 or so after you cut them. Probably only vendor once blue gems become more readily available.)`
`02:07.56`	`Xyphoid`	`i was looking at making darkmoon cards, but man that's a lot of herbing required`
`02:08.25`	`Amarande`	`even Obsidium is going for a hundred a stack if I recall`
`02:08.58`	`Napoleone`	`have you seen the crafted two handed mace?`
`02:09.15`	`Amarande`	`not yet, especially as that's a slot I can fill via a drop (last boss of GB drops a decent 2H mace)`
`02:09.41`	`Amarande`	`the main slot I can't seem to figure out how to do reasonably is the hat.`
`02:09.51`	`Amarande`	`it seems I'm going to be forced to wear a tank helm and reforge some of the dodge off`
`02:10.01`	`Napoleone`	`http://www.wowhead.com/item=67605`
`02:10.32`	`Xyphoid`	`check for that redsteel one, blacksmithing levelling crafts are surprisingly cheap`
`02:14.37`	`Napoleone`	`redsteel what?`
`02:15.50`	`A-KO`	`do the guardians of cenarius have a daily?`
`02:16.35`	`Amarande`	`helm`
`02:16.48`	`Amarande`	`because it seems like getting a decent helm before JPs start rolling in in quantity as DPS is a pain in the ass`
`02:17.09`	`Amarande`	`literally every single helm from rep or pre-heroic drops, except for one from TotT that's rather low ilvl, is for a tank or a healer`
`02:17.12`	`Amarande`	`plate, that is`
`02:17.17`	`Xyphoid`	`http://www.wowhead.com/item=55031`
`02:17.20`	`Napoleone`	`isnt the problem that normal dungeons only get you jp after`
`02:18.02`	`Thrae`	`Napoleone: I thought they gave you LK Boss JP which is only like 16`
`02:18.15`	`Thrae`	`+ Bonus JP for completing the dungeon`
`02:18.24`	`Thrae`	`(LK Heroic Boss JP, that is)`
`02:18.40`	`Napoleone`	`not when iwas there`
`02:18.58`	`Napoleone`	`did quite a few and found out only after i got jp`
`02:19.03`	`Napoleone`	`so i went back to questing`
`02:22.21`	`Amarande`	`yeah, you only get the 70 JP after, and ONLY if you accepted a random potluck dungeon`
`02:22.37`	`Amarande`	`which is the problem, if you're trying to get rep too, there's a 40% chance of having to do a dungeon that you can't get it from`
`02:22.53`	`Napoleone`	`ye`
`02:22.54`	`Amarande`	`because SC and VP are not "level 85 dungeons"`
`02:24.42`	`Napoleone`	`hmm what about Bloodied Pyrite helm?`
`02:24.53`	`Napoleone`	`resilience sorry ;P`
`02:25.37`	`Napoleone`	`i hate they put restrictions on the dam enchants omg`
`02:25.56`	`Thrae`	`Blame the Twinks`
`02:26.13`	`Napoleone`	`Belt buckle.. max ilvl 300`
`02:26.19`	`Napoleone`	`now we need to make a new one lol`
`02:26.48`	`*** join/#wowuidev NightHawkTheSane (~jonathan@asylumsw.com)`
`02:28.02`	`Amarande`	`I'm wondering how high they intend to soar the ilvls this time`
`02:28.08`	`Amarande`	`seeing as the new belt buckle says "max ilvl 500"`
`02:28.27`	`Xyphoid`	`heh it was kind of annoying that you learn new enchanting recipes, but can't apply them to your quest gear since it's not illvl 300 yet`
`02:28.31`	`Napoleone`	`hehe`
`02:28.42`	`Napoleone`	`xyphoid ye`
`02:28.51`	`Napoleone`	`lol anyone got updated Atlasloot?`
`02:29.25`	`Napoleone`	`try this -> Cata-> Bastion of Twilight -> Trash Mobs -> Heroic -> and see the name of the trinket`
`02:37.43`	`Napoleone`	`anyone of you gettting a name change there?`
`02:40.10`	`*** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz)`
`02:40.10`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ`
`02:47.40`	`Kraps`	`anyone have an internet deathray? http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/143016/enough-with-the-stupid-cut-scenes`
`02:49.26`	`Amarande`	`400 gold for mats for redsteel helm. I think I'm going to have to go for a reforged tanking helm :S`
`02:51.54`	`Afflicto`	`What's the Spell ID Of jewelcrafting?`
`02:52.17`	`Afflicto`	`nvm /cast Jewelcrafing works`
`02:55.12`	`*** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix)`
`03:01.32`	`*** join/#wowuidev Lulia (~BleaS@pool-173-76-192-176.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)`
`03:05.57`	`*** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~quassel@124-168-59-253.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`03:06.18`	`Afflicto`	`Does anyone have experience with the oPie addon?`
`03:06.38`	`Afflicto`	`Cause I*m trying to use "Paladin Buffs" ring. It dosn't let me change blessings or seals.`
`03:07.36`	`Afflicto`	`Also, does anyone know a /command to load all your mounts?`
`03:08.46`	`Nobgul`	`in opie?`
`03:08.49`	`Amarande`	`I'm beginning to wonder now`
`03:08.50`	`Afflicto`	`yea`
`03:08.57`	`Nobgul`	`There should he a preset bar you can create for mounts`
`03:08.58`	`Amarande`	`is MDPS a dying thing in Cata, or are the rumors of its death greatly exaggerated?`
`03:09.06`	`Afflicto`	`hmm`
`03:09.09`	`Afflicto`	`maybe, I'l check`
`03:09.20`	`Nobgul`	`Amarande, Mdps says they are nerfed rdps says they are nerfed`
`03:10.23`	`Afflicto`	`meh, whatever I'l easily just drag'n'drop my mounts into a new Ring.`
`03:10.24`	`Amarande`	`Nobgul: I'm thinking more about the survival aspect`
`03:10.31`	`Amarande`	`MDPS are punished, especially in 5-mans`
`03:10.33`	`airtonix`	`plx to help me`
`03:10.37`	`Amarande`	`there's far too much stuff with PBAoE or aura type shtick`
`03:10.45`	`airtonix`	`hlp!`
`03:11.12`	`airtonix`	`Oh dear me, I seemed to have switched on my asian keyboard.`
`03:12.29`	`Amarande`	`basically, there are SO many 5-man stuff where, especially with pugs, just BEING in melee makes your HP drop like a stone`
`03:12.40`	`Amarande`	`and apparently now 5-man healers can only afford to heal the tank, there's just not mana or time for melee DPS`
`03:13.10`	`Xyphoid`	`melee need to learn to stop attacking and move away when they need to`
`03:13.54`	`Xyphoid`	`cough stonecore giant boss`
`03:14.10`	`Nobgul`	`lol`
`03:29.16`	`*** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`03:29.16`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ`
`03:35.47`	`Afflicto`	`What spec is best to use when leveling up a rogue? (She's lvl 72 now)`
`03:36.06`	`Afflicto`	`I've heard people say Sub actually, but.. sub? for leveling? o.O`
`03:37.07`	`*** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (~chatzilla@ip68-5-190-59.oc.oc.cox.net)`
`03:37.32`	`cogwheel`	`Fisker:`
`03:37.58`	`cogwheel`	`my eyes`
`03:38.15`	`Iriel`	`Hm.. I can tell Wordfeud is going to be a bit of an addiction`
`03:38.17`	`*** join/#wowuidev Diziet_ (~chatzilla@ool-4575b900.dyn.optonline.net)`
`03:38.26`	`cogwheel`	`worgen + tattered dreadmist robe = QQ`
`03:39.08`	`Diziet_`	`hey, is there a limit on number of times you can <Include file ="a.xml"/>`
`03:39.29`	`cogwheel`	`it's probably more limited in depth than # in a single file`
`03:39.42`	`cogwheel`	`(like including a file that includes a file that includes a file...)`
`03:39.53`	`Diziet_`	`yeah I ran into that problem`
`03:40.16`	`Diziet_`	`so I am defining a button in DeathKnightFrost.xml`
`03:40.24`	`Diziet_`	`and DeathKnightBlood.xml`
`03:40.33`	`Diziet_`	`and I can call on things included <Include file="Modifiers\DeathKnightBlood.xml"/> here`
`03:40.41`	`Diziet_`	`and not <Include file="Modifiers\DeathKnightFrost.xml"/>`
`03:41.08`	`Diziet_`	`but if I move the button definitions to the DeathKnightBlood.xml file they work, and I checked the spelling fifteen times`
`03:42.47`	`*** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (~Karen@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn)`
`03:42.47`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ`
`03:43.28`	`cogwheel`	`check your framexml.log maybe?`
`03:43.37`	`Diziet_`	`good idea`
`03:43.39`	`cogwheel`	`Perhaps there's an error outside of what you're copying?`
`03:44.22`	`Amarande`	`Afflicto: well let's see, you're a rogue, you have three specs: combat, with which you can kill things, assassination, with which you can kill things, and subtlety, with which you can kill things`
`03:44.30`	`Amarande`	`you might want to choose a spec with which you can kill things. :)`
`03:44.32`	`Diziet_`	`yeah it's not loading the file`
`03:44.55`	`Diziet_`	`no Amarande, subtlety rogue heal the mobs they attack`
`03:44.55`	`cogwheel`	`<AdamSavage>There's your problem</AdamSavage>`
`03:45.38`	`Diziet_`	`but I don't know why it's not loading the file, Mr. Orlando!`
`03:45.50`	`Afflicto`	`haha`
`03:46.27`	`Afflicto`	`I can also be more specific... Which Spec is most efficient for leveling for rogues?`
`03:46.29`	`cogwheel`	`neither do i, but your initial thought of a depth limit is as good an explanation as any :>`
`03:46.31`	`Iriel`	`Was the file present when you started the wow client?`
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`03:46.44`	`Diziet_`	`yes sir`
`03:46.52`	`Diziet_`	`I will try to restart anyway in case I am wrong`
`03:47.02`	`Iriel`	`Also, is the relative path from file to file correct?`
`03:48.33`	`Diziet_`	`I think`
`03:48.47`	`Diziet_`	`I must have done something evil and the files did not get loaded before wow ran`
`03:49.38`	`Diziet_`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:49.53`	`Iriel`	`The two things that can't do:`
`03:50.02`	`Iriel`	`1) Access files that weren't present when the client started`
`03:50.14`	`Iriel`	`2) Access updates to the ## entries in a TOC file`
`03:50.22`	`Iriel`	`Since both of those things are cached on client start`
`03:50.53`	`Diziet_`	`Afflicto: I know litrecola leveled as combat, reckful and neilyo leveled as assassination`
`03:51.09`	`Diziet_`	`can it access changes to a TOC file?`
`03:51.32`	`Diziet_`	`like the includes`
`03:51.57`	`Iriel`	`The file list, yes`
`03:52.01`	`Iriel`	`As long as the files existed`
`03:52.09`	`Iriel`	`Just not the ## metadata`
`03:52.24`	`Iriel`	`(I'm not sure if it's all of it, or some of it)`
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`03:55.44`	`Diziet_`	`that's very helpful to know, thank you`
`03:57.27`	`Thrae`	`Hmm if I have /cast [@mouseovertarget, harm] Growl, should that cast Growl only if the mouseover's target is harmful, right?`
`03:57.46`	`Thrae`	`Or do I need mouseovertarget=harm?`
`03:58.31`	`Afflicto`	`Hm`
`03:58.35`	`Afflicto`	`I have no idea about scripts.`
`03:58.40`	`ccox`	`NSFW: found this on facebook: http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1944668`
`03:59.12`	`Afflicto`	`But I would think it was something more like and "if (command)= true /cast" etc :P`
`04:00.09`	`Thrae`	`Macros only use Lua scripting when using the /script command. Otherwise they use either built-in slash commands or slash commands added by addons.`
`04:02.21`	`Thrae`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:07.00`	`Amarande`	`Thrae: heh, a pretty obsolete example`
`04:07.12`	`Amarande`	`doesn't Revive Pet pretty much automatically imply [target=pet,dead] when you use it normally now?`
`04:07.26`	`Thrae`	`Amarande: Dunno. I only play Druids.`
`04:07.35`	`Amarande`	`(Gah, did you really used to have to target the pet's corpse?)`
`04:09.00`	`Iriel`	`You dont now`
`04:09.01`	`Iriel`	`you never did`
`04:09.22`	`Kraps`	`Afflicto: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1519102049`
`04:09.29`	`Iriel`	`The point of the 'target' is to make 'dead' evaluate correctly`
`04:10.54`	`Thrae`	`Iriel: With @ being the shorthand for target=, correct?`
`04:11.01`	`Diziet_`	`yes`
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`04:14.15`	`Lulia`	`Apparently no one can suggest any quests in Uldum I might have missed? I've done all the ones they keep suggesting. :-/`
`04:14.35`	`Lulia`	`No achieve for me I guess`
`04:15.13`	`Amarande`	`Lulia: did you kill a scarab in the chamber of the stars?`
`04:16.19`	`Lulia`	`yes`
`04:16.26`	`Diziet_`	`Oooh, I haven't done that one yet. Is it part of the Harrison Jones questline?`
`04:16.29`	`Lulia`	`And the vultures and the hyenas and I killed Myzerian`
`04:16.37`	`Amarande`	`Diziet: sort of`
`04:16.40`	`Lulia`	`I've done EVERYTHING that has been suggested :(`
`04:16.43`	`Amarande`	`it's not directly part, and the scarabs are neutral`
`04:16.44`	`Lulia`	`And I'm at 105 of 108`
`04:16.45`	`Diziet_`	`His quests are the best`
`04:16.59`	`Diziet_`	`Try wowhead?`
`04:17.00`	`Amarande`	`and you don't get the quest except as an automatic when you kill one of the scarabs`
`04:17.07`	`Amarande`	`but it's one of the areas he takes you to, so sort of yeah`
`04:17.14`	`Diziet_`	`Oh, I was so focused on leveling I didn't touch the scarabs`
`04:17.46`	`Amarande`	`Lulia: did you loot both quest-starting books? the AI book and the one that takes you to Schnozz or whatever his name was's Landing?`
`04:18.11`	`Lulia`	`I did the AI one, I never got a drop for Schnozz, but it would be impossible to turn in at this point`
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`04:18.25`	`Lulia`	`Since I completed all the chains`
`04:18.31`	`Amarande`	`I dunno ... sometimes I still get breadcrumbs for stuff I already completed`
`04:18.34`	`Lulia`	`And the quest turn-in for that would be phased out`
`04:18.45`	`Lulia`	`I wouldn't be able to turn it in though`
`04:18.51`	`Lulia`	`The quest giver is phased out`
`04:19.02`	`Lulia`	`Even if I did turn it in that puts me at 106 og 108`
`04:19.04`	`Lulia`	`of*`
`04:19.25`	`Lulia`	`sighs.`
`04:19.33`	`Lulia`	`I really think I might be screwed`
`04:19.41`	`Lulia`	`No one can seem to think of a quest I havent done`
`04:20.05`	`Lulia`	`The manual one is the only one I could find, and, even if I could turn that in, which should be impossible due to phasing, it's still 106 of 108`
`04:20.21`	`Mike-N-Go`	`Esamynn: Are you arround?`
`04:20.46`	`Esamynn`	`yes`
`04:21.24`	`Mike-N-Go`	`Hey.. I missed Norgannas chat room. Got a few things about Gatherer.. To #norganna?`
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`04:23.09`	`Diziet_`	`it's funny, I leveled very quickly and then I haven't logged on... waiting for arena to start`
`04:24.26`	`Thunder_Child`	`Diziet_: you will get somewhat schooled by people in pve gear`
`04:27.40`	`Diziet_`	`I don't think so :)`
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`04:38.18`	`Arrowmaster`	`god damn fucking allergies, my eyes are more red than white right now`
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`04:39.14`	`Pertheria`	`Arrowmaster - they call that 'allergies' now huh`
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`04:45.25`	`Amarande`	`Arrow, you have a case of pink eye. Here's some topical cream.`
`04:46.03`	`Thunder_Child`	`Kraps: i just got it in shatter. :(`
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`04:48.35`	`Thrae`	`Phew. It took me ~2 days off and on, but I think I got all my addons and macros re-setup.`
`04:48.46`	`Thrae`	`OK time to get to 85!`
`04:49.15`	`bluspacecow`	`-_- ..... all mine were working ... cept for the 2 or so that broke`
`04:50.07`	`Thrae`	`Well the massive Cata changes also meant I had to change macro logic as well as what spells and abilities I am using and how my "never leave W,A,S,D" setup works`
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`04:56.27`	`Shirik`	`question for you guys`
`04:56.33`	`Shirik`	`when you google "ernie" what is the first option that pops up?`
`04:56.49`	`Dagmar`	`https://ernie.erau.edu/`
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`04:58.10`	`Thrae`	`https://ernie.erau.edu/`
`04:58.10`	`Dagmar`	`Looks like that was the URL that broke the internets`
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`05:04.24`	`Wobin`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premium_Bond`
`05:09.00`	`Shirik`	`really Wobin?`
`05:09.05`	`Shirik`	`Thrae / Dagmar: That's what I expected`
`05:09.18`	`Shirik`	`I was just curious if it was Google doing some magic "omg you go to embry riddle here have this instead"`
`05:09.26`	`Shirik`	`because I expected it to be like ernie from sesame st or something`
`05:09.29`	`Mike-N-Go`	`That was FUN`
`05:10.10`	`Wobin`	`I got lots of images for Ernie from sesame street`
`05:10.14`	`Wobin`	`but that was the first link`
`05:13.57`	`Diziet_`	`Hm, what could do this: I can call :Hide() on a frame and it hides all the children but not the frame itself. Hiding the weird frame's parent does hide it`
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`06:00.08`	`Jason100`	`hello?`
`06:00.48`	`bluspacecow`	`\o`
`06:00.51`	`bluspacecow`	`hides`
`06:00.58`	`Mike-N-Go`	`Jason100: Hi.`
`06:01.42`	`Jason100`	`hi, i'm wondering how LUA in wow is delimited`
`06:01.43`	`Jason100`	`i mean..`
`06:01.51`	`Jason100`	`in C# and C++ you always end a line with '`
`06:01.53`	`Jason100`	`er ;`
`06:02.00`	`Jason100`	`in lua, is that not required?`
`06:02.09`	`Arrowmaster`	`no`
`06:02.50`	`Jason100`	`no, it's not required?`
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`06:03.50`	`Jason100`	`would this be valid? if UnitName("player") == Pagophobia then testVal = true end if UnitName("player") == testDude then noWay = false end`
`06:04.39`	`Arrowmaster`	`its valid syntax`
`06:05.02`	`Jason100`	`strange!`
`06:05.03`	`Arrowmaster`	`although im guessing that its not exactly what you are wanting`
`06:05.14`	`Jason100`	`i'm just trying to figure out the syntax right now`
`06:05.19`	`Jason100`	`also.. whats the whole deal with localized string?`
`06:05.31`	`Arrowmaster`	`huh?`
`06:05.43`	`Kraps`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOqb6acHErs&feature=grec_index`
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`06:07.31`	`Amarande`	`Jason: however, in WoW's case you have a responsibility to make your code reasonably readable to those who are familiar with Lua. Otherwise, you risk being put in baddons.`
`06:07.43`	`Jason100`	`yes i understand :)`
`06:07.58`	`Jason100`	`it's strange to me seeing that you can write lua as one biiiiig loooong line`
`06:08.13`	`Jason100`	`i can even do foreach loops and whatnot correct? :)`
`06:08.17`	`Jason100`	`cool`
`06:08.24`	`Jason100`	`and about localized string..`
`06:08.26`	`Jason100`	`i mean..`
`06:08.30`	`Jason100`	`some strings are "localized" and some are not`
`06:08.33`	`Jason100`	`whats teh difference?`
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`06:11.00`	`Jason100`	`and...`
`06:11.08`	`Dezzimal`	`rip freenode`
`06:11.09`	`Jason100`	`if UnitHealth("party"..i) <-- what do the dots beside I mean?`
`06:11.24`	`Dezzimal`	`concatenation, i is going to be a number in that situation`
`06:11.25`	`Jason100`	`shoudlen't it be "party" + i.toString() ?`
`06:11.25`	`Arrowmaster`	`string concat`
`06:11.34`	`Jason100`	`ah.. is there another way of expressing ..?`
`06:11.37`	`Dezzimal`	`concatinating anything with .. makes it a string`
`06:11.42`	`Jason100`	`cool!`
`06:12.03`	`Jason100`	`if UnitHealth("party"..i) >= 1 testVal = 44 end`
`06:12.06`	`Jason100`	`that is valid syntax right?`
`06:12.23`	`Dezzimal`	`no you're missing a then`
`06:12.26`	`Jason100`	`ahh`
`06:12.29`	`Jason100`	`ok how about this`
`06:12.53`	`Jason100`	`for i = 1, GetNumPartyMembers() do if UnitHealth("party"..i) >= 1 then testVal = 555 end end`
`06:13.05`	`Jason100`	`correct syntax?`
`06:13.49`	`Arrowmaster`	`yes`
`06:14.01`	`Dezzimal`	`you can put a space after the comma in a for?`
`06:14.04`	`Jason100`	`oh one little thing...`
`06:14.19`	`Jason100`	`what does return select(blah) do?`
`06:14.22`	`Jason100`	`whats the select thing?`
`06:14.32`	`Arrowmaster`	`!api select`
`06:14.32`	`lua_bot`	`Documentation for 'select' can be found at http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#pdf-select`
`06:14.36`	`*** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk)`
`06:14.52`	`Jason100`	`return select(2, UnitClass("raid"..i))`
`06:14.58`	`Jason100`	`for example`
`06:15.17`	`Jason100`	`yea.. i don't really understand what it means`
`06:15.24`	`Arrowmaster`	`it returns the 2nd value from UnitClass("raid"..i)`
`06:15.29`	`Jason100`	`"return all arguments"?`
`06:15.45`	`Jason100`	`ok so for example.. raid22 (the 22nd member of the raid party)`
`06:15.50`	`Jason100`	`2nd value from unitclass`
`06:18.05`	`Jason100`	`in unitclass..`
`06:18.07`	`Jason100`	`it says..`
`06:18.10`	`Jason100`	`it returns localizedClass, englishClass`
`06:18.14`	`Jason100`	`so that means if i select 2 from it`
`06:18.17`	`Jason100`	`i'm getting the englishclass`
`06:18.57`	`Kraps`	`more hotfixes http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/1232869`
`06:19.10`	`bluspacecow`	`but no funnies`
`06:19.11`	`bluspacecow`	`:(`
`06:20.32`	`*** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (~Spare@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn)`
`06:20.32`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ`
`06:20.47`	`bluspacecow`	`\o Cairenn`
`06:20.50`	`Jason100`	`am i correct?`
`06:20.52`	`Cairenn`	`hi`
`06:21.15`	`Arrowmaster`	`yes`
`06:21.19`	`Jason100`	`return select(2, UnitClass("raid"..i)) <-- this will select the 2nd return value , englishclass, correct?`
`06:21.26`	`Jason100`	`thanks arrowmaster :)`
`06:22.43`	`Jason100`	`this is also correct.... then testVal = 555 else testVal = 222 right?`
`06:22.50`	`Jason100`	`you can use the "else" statement as such?`
`06:23.25`	`Arrowmaster`	`yes`
`06:23.29`	`Arrowmaster`	`~pil`
`06:23.29`	`purl`	`Programming in Lua, a book written by the authors of the Lua programming language. The first edition is available free online at http://www.lua.org/pil and covers Lua 5.0. The second edition is available in print from most online bookstores, and covers Lua 5.1.`
`06:23.35`	`Arrowmaster`	`why dont you try reading through that`
`06:23.44`	`bluspacecow`	`he he`
`06:24.01`	`bluspacecow`	`cog should totally pimp that book`
`06:24.17`	`Kraps`	`bluspacecow: The Vashj'ir quest reward Staff of Post-Facto Preparation now has spell power on it, 'cause it should. The Vashj'ir quest rewards Darkspear Ritual Blade and Gnomeregan Mindslicer now have spell power on them, 'cause they should.`
`06:24.30`	`bluspacecow`	`not as funny`
`06:24.33`	`bluspacecow`	`2/10`
`06:24.57`	`Kraps`	`-1/10`
`06:25.04`	`Mike-N-Go`	`Hi everyone, welcome Cairenn!`
`06:25.08`	`Jason100`	`because my questions are specific and very simple which could be fully answered by anyone competent in LUA here in a matter of seconds, and i dont' have many questions about the language otherwise :)`
`06:25.15`	`Cairenn`	`hi Mike-N-Go`
`06:25.23`	`bluspacecow`	`wheres Cairenn's Cat photo ?`
`06:25.27`	`bluspacecow`	`cute animal link ?`
`06:25.28`	`bluspacecow`	`:(`
`06:25.59`	`Cairenn`	`bluspacecow: mmrrh?`
`06:26.12`	`bluspacecow`	`i`
`06:26.24`	`bluspacecow`	`'ve noticed peoplelink cute animals for you`
`06:27.03`	`Cairenn`	`ah`
`06:27.06`	`Cairenn`	`yup :)`
`06:27.20`	`Amarande`	`Evening Cairenn :)`
`06:27.21`	`bluspacecow`	`fisker broke the forums`
`06:27.31`	`bluspacecow`	`you can't use the fancy new quotes , only [quote]`
`06:27.37`	`Amarande`	`ready for the holidays? :)`
`06:27.54`	`Cairenn`	`getting there`
`06:33.19`	`Amarande`	`also, uuuugghhhhhh server economy`
`06:33.30`	`Amarande`	`I feel noobish going around with an empty meta slot`
`06:33.39`	`Amarande`	`but I am so not paying TWENTY FIVE FREAKING HUNDRED GOLD for a meta gem :\|`
`06:33.49`	`Amarande`	`not till it's raid time, anyway!`
`06:34.02`	`Jason100`	`does lua ever require the use of the ";" mark?`
`06:34.25`	`bluspacecow`	`be cheaper to level a JC for that price Amarande`
`06:34.40`	`Amarande`	`bluspacecow: yeah, I'm thinking maybe I should get to work on my warlock soon`
`06:34.52`	`Amarande`	`although I'd kinda like to wait for the mining craze to die down first`
`06:35.19`	`Amarande`	`herb nodes seem to be becoming as plentiful as one would expect under normal, non-launch circumstances, but mining nodes are apparently still scarce`
`06:36.51`	`bleeter`	`~emulate bleeter`
`06:36.51`	`purl`	`ACTION rant RANT rant waaa MOAR COFFEE <sub>GOOD IDEA</sub>rant waa MOAR COFFEE rant rant MOAR MOAR <blink><h1>terribad idea</h1></blink> rant`
`06:39.12`	`Kraps`	`srs article is srs http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/12/13/sexual-dimorphism-in-cataclysm/`
`06:41.49`	`Jason100`	`does anyone understand this wow lua? for i = 1, select('#', GetRealmCategories()), 1 do local numRealms = GetNumRealms(i);`
`06:42.07`	`haste`	`GetRealmCategories() has several returns`
`06:42.18`	`haste`	`select('#', ...) turns those returns into a number`
`06:42.36`	`Jason100`	`ok... what does the , 1 do part mean?`
`06:42.39`	`haste`	`then it iterates it like for i=1, <numbers returned from select()> do ... end`
`06:42.40`	`Jason100`	`the , 1 is strange to me`
`06:42.42`	`haste`	`increase by one`
`06:42.46`	`Jason100`	`ah!`
`06:42.48`	`haste`	`for each iteration`
`06:42.51`	`Jason100`	`can you omit that if you don't need it?`
`06:43.03`	`haste`	`yes, in this case you can`
`06:44.58`	`Jason100`	`for i = 1, GetNumPartyMembers(), 1 do if UnitHealth("party"..i) >= 3000 then testVal = 555 else testVal = 222;end end`
`06:45.00`	`Jason100`	`this is correct?`
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`06:51.38`	`Sapu`	`anybody know of an addon to view all the textures? I've used TexBrowser but it's way out of date`
`06:54.08`	`Kraps`	`http://eu.battle.net/en/maintenance/`
`06:54.24`	`Kraps`	`lolwut`
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`06:55.57`	`bluspacecow`	`doesn't mean a thing kraps`
`06:55.57`	`bluspacecow`	`http://us.battle.net/en/maintenance/`
`06:56.06`	`bluspacecow`	`yet ive been posting on the forums`
`06:56.49`	`Kraps`	`but i can access the us site`
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`07:02.36`	`Kraps`	`how do open rp threads work? isnt it hard to get a coherent story if every post is made up by another person?`
`07:04.16`	`Jamash`	`puts on his robe and wizard hat.`
`07:04.39`	`Kraps`	`:)`
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`07:11.39`	`Dagmar`	`Kraps: Well, for one thing, all the posters have to be at least minimally interested in a coherent story`
`07:16.12`	`Dagmar`	`@#$% yeah Saeris is not dead`
`07:16.16`	`Dagmar`	`Awesome`
`07:16.28`	`airtonix`	`yay?`
`07:16.38`	`Dagmar`	`Yes. He's the guy who does Segui`
`07:16.54`	`airtonix`	`im creaming my pants?`
`07:17.03`	`Dagmar`	`...and apparently he's in the final stages of fixing all the stuff that broke in Cataclysm`
`07:17.09`	`Dagmar`	`You've never used segui before?`
`07:17.23`	`airtonix`	`apparently not unless i was sequestered`
`07:17.23`	`Dagmar`	`i.e., you have no RP in ya at all?`
`07:17.43`	`Dagmar`	`Okay, so Segui is an addon that watches for events (like many) and then makes you say stuff when they happen`
`07:17.54`	`airtonix`	`so`
`07:17.56`	`airtonix`	`a`
`07:17.57`	`airtonix`	`bot`
`07:17.59`	`airtonix`	`for`
`07:18.00`	`airtonix`	`rp`
`07:18.01`	`Dagmar`	`It does basically the same thing as GemSay`
`07:18.11`	`Dagmar`	`No, it's useful for raids/instances as well`
`07:18.15`	`airtonix`	`hai gaiz im leik rp'ing`
`07:18.34`	`airtonix`	`but no`
`07:18.39`	`airtonix`	`i arping all the time`
`07:18.41`	`Dagmar`	`I mean, aside from there's a 20% chance I'll say "It's probably squirrels." in ToC when they go "What's that up in the rafters?" it's handy`
`07:18.55`	`*** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@s213-103-219-177.cust.tele2.se)`
`07:18.55`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ`
`07:18.55`	`airtonix`	`ok`
`07:19.04`	`Dagmar`	`I've got a sackful of randomized messages for when I fire off Misdirection, for one thing`
`07:19.15`	`airtonix`	`insert terry pratchet books`
`07:19.16`	`Dagmar`	`Even in PUGs tanks can generally figure out exactly what I'm on about when they happen`
`07:19.25`	`Shirik`	`finally made it to 84`
`07:19.27`	`Shirik`	`I am such a baddie`
`07:19.35`	`airtonix`	`yes`
`07:19.39`	`Cide`	`yes you are`
`07:19.39`	`airtonix`	`you made it past 70`
`07:19.41`	`Dagmar`	`Shirik: Dude, it's ten levels-worth of stuff`
`07:19.58`	`Shirik`	`?`
`07:20.01`	`Dagmar`	`With that in mind the time between dings is pretty understandable`
`07:20.14`	`Cide`	`no, people made it to 85 in less than a day`
`07:20.17`	`Cide`	`Shirik is definitely bad`
`07:20.24`	`airtonix`	`with a sizable dong it shouldn't last to long`
`07:20.29`	`Jamash`	`but if I emote when I misdirect how will I stealth-MD-kill my party-mates?`
`07:20.51`	`Dagmar`	`Jamash: 5% chance the emote will be "Misdirecting onto the mage..."`
`07:21.08`	`Jamash`	`hmm`
`07:21.11`	`airtonix`	`<mage> WTF`
`07:21.20`	`Dagmar`	`Oh yeah. :)`
`07:21.36`	`Shirik`	`Shirik is trying to graduate with distinction`
`07:21.45`	`airtonix`	`Seek ye, thy repentance of little gain`
`07:21.58`	`airtonix`	`Dagmar, is that too much`
`07:22.05`	`Dagmar`	`I'm not particularly into RP but I do like it when there's a 2% chance when skinning he'll make a comment about having to clean the things up before they start to smell`
`07:22.41`	`Jamash`	`I do find warlock emotes somewhat amusing`
`07:23.02`	`Jamash`	`for pet summons and rituals`
`07:23.06`	`Dagmar`	`I like them occasionally, so i've got the chance they'll trigger all turned way down except for the party communication ones`
`07:23.41`	`Dagmar`	`...and of course, if I ever get a killing blow with Raptor Stike, I'm gonna be sayin' "Melee hunter FTW!"`
`07:24.00`	`Jamash`	`I get kbs with raptor strike all the time`
`07:24.00`	`Dagmar`	`My toon cheers if I get the killing blow on a boss`
`07:24.15`	`Jamash`	`on critters`
`07:24.15`	`Dagmar`	`Jamash: Squirrels don't count`
`07:24.19`	`Jamash`	`dang`
`07:24.42`	`Dagmar`	`I got the killing blow on a Kara boss with a melee attack once and people fell out`
`07:25.04`	`Jamash`	`lil' rag will set critters on fire`
`07:25.07`	`*** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk)`
`07:25.17`	`Dagmar`	`Jamash: He's a busy little thing`
`07:25.29`	`Dagmar`	`I wonder if those count towards the crittergeddon achievement`
`07:25.31`	`Jamash`	`and I can cook on him`
`07:25.38`	`Jamash`	`even underwater`
`07:25.48`	`Jamash`	`truly, his power knows no limits`
`07:25.55`	`Dagmar`	`Hey that's handy`
`07:26.07`	`Dagmar`	`He's quicker to summon than a cooking fire`
`07:26.11`	`Jamash`	`yup`
`07:26.32`	`airtonix`	`can you cook food that extends your breathing time ?`
`07:26.36`	`airtonix`	`under water`
`07:26.37`	`Dagmar`	`I made some skewered eels on someone's the other day`
`07:26.40`	`archlol`	`Is the arena season supposed to start today in EU, and if so, when today? If anyone can be arsed to answer.`
`07:26.52`	`Dagmar`	`airtonix: Not that I'm aware of`
`07:27.00`	`Jamash`	`I don't know of any cooking recipes for underwater breathing`
`07:27.00`	`*** join/#wowuidev Aeyan\| (~pancake@cpe-024-163-016-179.triad.res.rr.com)`
`07:27.08`	`Dagmar`	`Those are all alchemy afaik`
`07:27.16`	`Primer`	`I really need to find a relic for resto`
`07:27.26`	`Primer`	`still using level 80`
`07:27.33`	`Dagmar`	`You'll see several as quest rewards`
`07:27.42`	`Primer`	`I've seen none`
`07:27.48`	`Jamash`	`however my characters include an alchemist, a warlock and a character with the kalu'ak fishing pole, so running out of air isn't one of my big worries`
`07:28.15`	`Dagmar`	`I have such a pile of stamina if I needed to breathe, it was because I was really, really lost.`
`07:29.00`	`Jamash`	`they extended the time to drowning long enough I hardly ever even need to use the fishing pole`
`07:31.01`	`Jamash`	`and of course noggenfogger`
`07:32.45`	`Dagmar`	`I was glad to have that when the Pincer X2 was bugged`
`07:33.32`	`Dagmar`	`...although I mainly keep it around for protection against gnomes.`
`07:35.00`	`Dagmar`	`Anyone tried the new disguise potion on a large NPC yet?`
`07:39.30`	`Jamash`	`http://www.organicarmor.com/Products/Pets/index.htm`
`07:40.25`	`*** join/#wowuidev ScytheBlade1 (~Death@winterspring.averageurl.com)`
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`09:34.20`	`Shirik`	`bleh`
`09:34.25`	`Shirik`	`finish getting to 85 or sleep`
`09:36.53`	`*** join/#wowuidev Zhinjio (~Geo@home.trippy.org)`
`09:44.35`	`ccox`	`sleep`
`09:44.39`	`Kalroth`	`you can sleep when you get old`
`09:51.22`	`airtonix`	`no`
`09:51.29`	`airtonix`	`sleep when you're dead`
`09:51.54`	`Kalroth`	`no, sleep when rigor mortis takes over`
`10:00.34`	`Cairenn`	`my vote is with ccox's - sleep`
`10:01.01`	`*** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk)`
`10:29.10`	`airtonix`	`is it true?`
`10:29.52`	`airtonix`	`a massive endorphins release obtained through physical exertion makes you tired?`
`10:30.01`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~kalroth@mail1.retailplanit.com)`
`10:31.10`	`Shirik`	`Cide!`
`10:31.16`	`Shirik`	`I know you did it`
`10:31.36`	`Shirik`	`also ccox / Cairenn: That's what I decided too`
`10:31.45`	`Cairenn`	`:)`
`10:31.46`	`Shirik`	`except then I got distracted`
`10:31.53`	`Shirik`	`so NOW I will sleep`
`10:32.26`	`*** join/#wowuidev bleeter (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter)`
`10:37.04`	`*** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys)`
`10:38.44`	`*** join/#wowuidev Sliker (~ponies@87.114.7.10)`
`10:41.14`	`Cide`	`Shirik: did what`
`10:41.22`	`Shirik`	`bombings in sweden`
`10:41.27`	`Shirik`	`omg look I spelled sweden right`
`10:41.31`	`Cide`	`I was only ten minutes away too`
`10:41.34`	`Shirik`	`really o.o;`
`10:41.38`	`bluspacecow`	`O_O`
`10:41.40`	`Cide`	`by subway`
`10:41.41`	`Shirik`	`glad you're ok`
`10:41.44`	`bluspacecow`	`on IRC in his sleep !`
`10:41.44`	`Cide`	`lol`
`10:41.53`	`Cide`	`I was in my apartment`
`10:42.05`	`krka_`	`you dont measure distance in time!`
`10:42.06`	`Cide`	`but I live 10 minutes away by subway ors o`
`10:42.15`	`Shirik`	`krka_ obviously you have never heard of a lightyear`
`10:42.16`	`Kalroth`	`didnt the bomber dude fail to kill even himself? or was it something else?`
`10:42.21`	`krka_`	`unless you were actually at the same place 10 minutes earlier or later`
`10:42.27`	`Cide`	`sure you do, if you give the velocity and time the two are equivalent!`
`10:42.37`	`krka_`	`you didn't give the velocity`
`10:42.44`	`Shirik`	`that doesn't mean it doesn't exist!`
`10:42.45`	`Cide`	`"by subway" is pretty much implicit velocity`
`10:42.50`	`Kalroth`	`give us the velocity`
`10:42.53`	`Shirik`	`besides, it's all relative`
`10:43.07`	`bleeter`	`african or european subway?`
`10:43.11`	`krka_`	`depends on subway max velocity, number of stops, weather conditions, how much is underground, et.c.`
`10:43.19`	`Cide`	`I'll stab you with a fork krka_`
`10:43.26`	`krka_`	`i'll fork you with a stab!`
`10:43.29`	`Cide`	`how is that for absolute`
`10:43.32`	`bleeter`	`SPORKS`
`10:43.37`	`Shirik`	`wait`
`10:43.41`	`Shirik`	`why does sweden even have a subway`
`10:43.51`	`Shirik`	`is it really big enough to warrant a need for that?`
`10:44.00`	`bleeter`	`...`
`10:44.04`	`bleeter`	`failtroll is fail`
`10:44.07`	`*** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_work (~sylvanaar@tut.qvssoftware.com)`
`10:44.15`	`Shirik`	`really`
`10:44.18`	`Shirik`	`when I think subway I think new york`
`10:44.22`	`Shirik`	`sweden is not new york`
`10:45.26`	`Shirik`	`Stockholm: Urban density3,318.4/km2 (8,594.5/sq mi)`
`10:45.31`	`krka_`	`we have a subway system for stockholm, no other cities i think`
`10:45.36`	`Shirik`	`New york city: Urban density5,435.7/sq mi (2,098.7/km2)`
`10:45.41`	`Shirik`	`I'm impressed`
`10:45.42`	`bleeter`	`deathwing looks like shit in 3dvision when the Alert is up.`
`10:45.56`	`Shirik`	`Cide, your kind is doing better than I thought`
`10:46.11`	`krka_`	`better = being crowded?`
`10:46.31`	`Shirik`	`well at least it justifies the subway`
`10:46.38`	`Kalroth`	`you two are the worst`
`10:46.45`	`Shirik`	`I mean let's be honest`
`10:46.50`	`Shirik`	`the US has a lot of area`
`10:46.54`	`krka_`	`good that we can justify to you, otherwise we'd have to disband it :/`
`10:47.13`	`Shirik`	`If two countries were equivalent in every other way, the US would always look better simply because it was more spread out`
`10:47.28`	`Shirik`	`so it's not really fair to argue to that end`
`10:47.31`	`Cide`	`Shirik: 3 km away`
`10:47.41`	`Cide`	`so 1.9 miles according to google`
`10:47.51`	`Shirik`	`"according to google"`
`10:47.54`	`Kalroth`	`did you know that the main subway station in Tokyo got four times as many passengers as all of New York combined?!`
`10:47.56`	`Shirik`	`as if 3km is a disputed fact?`
`10:48.02`	`Shirik`	`3km in mi, that is`
`10:48.03`	`Cide`	`no but miles is definitely`
`10:48.04`	`krka_`	`usa is still denser than sweden`
`10:48.11`	`krka_`	`(both mentally and population wise)`
`10:48.13`	`Kalroth`	`Americans are pretty dense`
`10:48.15`	`Kalroth`	`HEHE`
`10:48.19`	`Shirik`	`no argument here`
`10:48.20`	`krka_`	`i see what you did there!`
`10:48.31`	`Cide`	`anyway`
`10:48.31`	`Shirik`	`I would leave the US if it wasn't for pretty much my entire industry is based in the US`
`10:48.33`	`Shirik`	`or Israel`
`10:48.36`	`Cide`	`the bombings were pretty fail`
`10:48.36`	`Shirik`	`and I'm not living in Israel`
`10:48.43`	`krka_`	`sweden has a really large area compared to its number of citizens`
`10:49.05`	`bleeter`	`Shirik: go work in CHina, they'd love you there ;)`
`10:49.09`	`Shirik`	`no`
`10:49.21`	`bleeter`	`they would`
`10:49.22`	`Shirik`	`I would go to Japan in a heartbeat if I knew the language well enough and had a job offer, though`
`10:49.37`	`krka_`	`come to sweden and work at spotify with me!`
`10:49.45`	`Cide`	`inorite`
`10:49.51`	`bleeter`	`fuck spotify`
`10:49.58`	`krka_`	`spot fuckify!`
`10:49.59`	`bleeter`	`unless they come to australia, that is`
`10:50.01`	`Cide`	`you should get them to hire me krka_`
`10:50.18`	`Shirik`	`problem with that would be most of my knowledge is in standards of aviation software`
`10:50.20`	`krka_`	`finish school first!`
`10:50.22`	`Cide`	`I sent them an email but they ignored me`
`10:50.27`	`krka_`	`lulz`
`10:50.29`	`Cide`	`I can do both :(`
`10:50.34`	`Shirik`	`spotify != aircraft`
`10:51.01`	`Cide`	`aircrafts are now, spotify is forever`
`10:51.27`	`Shirik`	`omg I just finished a 64 page report`
`10:51.31`	`Shirik`	`on the safety`
`10:51.38`	`Shirik`	`of the fricking entertainment system on aircraft`
`10:51.42`	`Cide`	`rofllll`
`10:51.44`	`Shirik`	`so glad I never have to do that again`
`10:51.47`	`bleeter`	`win`
`10:51.57`	`bleeter`	`next, write a 65 page report on it`
`10:52.21`	`Shirik`	`We did manage to find an argument for being able to make the entertainment system cause the airplane to crash into the ground`
`10:52.37`	`Shirik`	`unfortunately we could only pull it up to a .0005% probability of happening once in 20 years`
`10:52.54`	`Cide`	`what was it and how can I exploit this`
`10:53.13`	`Cide`	`in reverse order`
`10:53.46`	`*** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@guest.nat.esnord.dk)`
`10:54.02`	`Shirik`	`http://images.gammatester.com/pics/3c396bb0623adc9a37bb40ee75a3c876.png`
`10:54.06`	`Shirik`	`sorry I quoted the wrong probability`
`10:54.10`	`*** join/#wowuidev Zasurus (~Zasurus@78-105-174-15.zone3.bethere.co.uk)`
`10:54.37`	`Shirik`	`.00094% in 20 years`
`10:55.03`	`*** join/#wowuidev Komodo- (~Komodo@188-221-113-46.zone12.bethere.co.uk)`
`10:56.38`	`Shirik`	`Oh, Markov models too! http://images.gammatester.com/pics/b83c289074131f2f9b2b61b840a2f02d.jpg`
`10:56.57`	`Shirik`	`I swear to god if anyone ever makes me prove that an entertainment system is safety-critical again I'm going to hit them`
`10:57.10`	`Shirik`	`we had fun coming up with ideas though`
`10:57.37`	`Cide`	`I like`
`10:57.38`	`Cide`	`VOTING FAIL`
`10:58.12`	`bluspacecow`	`damn`
`10:58.17`	`bluspacecow`	`i was going to pay you`
`10:58.20`	`bluspacecow`	`a sum total`
`10:58.24`	`bluspacecow`	`of $5 NZD !`
`10:58.34`	`Shirik`	`I just found a bug in that analysis actually`
`10:58.37`	`Shirik`	`who wrote this FTA`
`10:58.39`	`Cide`	`so did you prove that it was safety-critical`
`10:58.43`	`Cide`	`or did you prove that it isn't`
`10:58.44`	`Shirik`	`yes, we had to`
`10:58.52`	`Cide`	`or rather`
`10:58.52`	`Shirik`	`well you don't really prove that something's safety critical`
`10:58.54`	`Cide`	`is it?`
`10:58.54`	`*** join/#wowuidev sylvaan (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar)`
`10:59.04`	`Shirik`	`you determine something's safety critical and then you do an analysis to determine if it's safe`
`10:59.11`	`Shirik`	`which it is, depending on how you define safe`
`10:59.24`	`Shirik`	`there's a pretty high probability that, on occasion, the airline will lose money because of it`
`10:59.25`	`Kalroth`	`NASA-safe only safe!`
`10:59.44`	`Shirik`	`but it's so rare that it would cause any real issue that....`
`10:59.47`	`Shirik`	`how does the military call it`
`10:59.56`	`cbreak`	`colateral damage?`
`11:00.00`	`Kalroth`	`:p`
`11:00.15`	`cbreak`	`friendly fire?`
`11:00.26`	`Cide`	`normal operation?`
`11:00.49`	`Shirik`	`"So unlikely, it can be assumed occurrence will not be experienced"`
`11:00.54`	`Shirik`	`from the standard`
`11:00.58`	`Cide`	`lolwut`
`11:01.03`	`Cide`	`that's pretty vague`
`11:01.11`	`Cide`	`they should replace it with "act of god"`
`11:01.17`	`Shirik`	`well it has a more strict definition than that`
`11:01.24`	`Shirik`	`probabilities, etc.`
`11:01.30`	`Cide`	`that's better`
`11:01.31`	`Shirik`	`But that's the "what you should do" part`
`11:02.11`	`*** join/#wowuidev Monolit (~postid08@89.112.4.92.pppoe.eltel.net)`
`11:02.22`	`Cide`	`shirik`
`11:02.42`	`Cide`	`determine in a >60 pages long report the safety of our relationship`
`11:02.52`	`Shirik`	`you're from sweden`
`11:03.01`	`Shirik`	`chances of it blowing up are 99%`
`11:03.13`	`Shirik`	`actually`
`11:03.15`	`Shirik`	`I'm from US`
`11:03.19`	`Shirik`	`we'll probably just end up nuking you`
`11:03.46`	`cbreak`	`so that incompetent bomber last week was american?`
`11:04.08`	`Cide`	`we have received help from bomb experts from fbi`
`11:04.25`	`Cide`	`seven of them in fact!`
`11:04.38`	`Shirik`	`probability of it being a US conspiracy rising`
`11:05.23`	`Cide`	`0.33 (repeating of course) and on the rise`
`11:06.45`	`Shirik`	`here you want all the ways you can cause a catastrophic failure?`
`11:07.09`	`Cide`	`yes`
`11:07.12`	`Cide`	`enumerate them all`
`11:07.26`	`Shirik`	`http://images.gammatester.com/pics/1ded14614ba7e731f8b5359165a91c9d.png`
`11:07.31`	`Shirik`	`Don't blame me for any spelling failures`
`11:09.17`	`Cide`	`what about the probability of oil leakage in a rolls-royce engine causing catastrophic failure on an airbus a380`
`11:09.28`	`Shirik`	`unrelated to the entertainment system`
`11:09.30`	`Cide`	`is that accounted for under Aircraft in on Fire?`
`11:09.36`	`Cide`	`weak`
`11:09.43`	`Cide`	`and it could be related`
`11:09.53`	`Cide`	`also`
`11:10.06`	`Cide`	`how do you quantify the electromagnetic field generated by the entertainment system?`
`11:10.14`	`Shirik`	`actually`
`11:10.25`	`Shirik`	`there are quite a lot of requirements for these types of things :)`
`11:10.33`	`Cide`	`how comparable is it to, say, having an ipod running during takeoff`
`11:10.38`	`Shirik`	`ok that's a pile of BS`
`11:10.44`	`Cide`	`I know`
`11:11.05`	`Shirik`	`my favorite part is the one where people think the reason you can't use cell phones in flight is because it will harm the aircraft`
`11:11.25`	`Shirik`	`the real reason is because the FCC says the frequency at which cell phones run is for ground communications only`
`11:11.48`	`Shirik`	`also I'm pretty sure they wouldn't let you bring it on the aircraft if it could harm it`
`11:12.04`	`Shirik`	`now nail clippers`
`11:12.08`	`Shirik`	`THOSE THINGS are dangerous`
`11:12.09`	`Shirik`	`omg`
`11:12.23`	`Shirik`	`and so help you if you bring a bottle of water`
`11:12.27`	`Cide`	`due to pressure?`
`11:12.30`	`Shirik`	`no`
`11:12.38`	`Cide`	`oh`
`11:12.40`	`Cide`	`you were being ironic`
`11:12.41`	`Shirik`	`due to the nazi TSA`
`11:12.50`	`Cide`	`or sarcastic I guess`
`11:13.13`	`Cide`	`yeah I wanted to bring a bottle of hair spray and it cost me a ton`
`11:13.25`	`Cide`	`because I had to check in my bag just to bring it with me`
`11:13.51`	`Cide`	`and I was going to a masquerade and needed hair spray`
`11:13.54`	`Cide`	`I should sue the tsa`
`11:14.11`	`Shirik`	`lol`
`11:14.14`	`Shirik`	`for what?`
`11:14.22`	`Shirik`	`you basically give up your rights when you enter an airport`
`11:14.37`	`Cide`	`irreparable emotional damage`
`11:14.55`	`Shirik`	`you are not allowed to have emotions at an airport`
`11:15.01`	`Shirik`	`you will be groped and you will enjoy it`
`11:15.10`	`Cide`	`oh I do`
`11:15.22`	`Cide`	`actually that part hasn't come to sweden yet`
`11:15.37`	`*** join/#wowuidev Torhal (~callahan@74-128-172-43.dhcp.insightbb.com)`
`11:15.43`	`Cide`	`only everything else you guys think of`
`11:16.39`	`Shirik`	`you imply that we think when we say these things`
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`11:16.50`	`Cide`	`good point`
`11:16.52`	`*** join/#wowuidev Mirrormn (~Mirrormn@h185.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)`
`11:16.56`	`Shirik`	`I prefer to believe that TSA just puts a bunch of random nouns in a basket and pulls them out like bingo`
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`11:19.09`	`Shirik`	`Apparently I got a 99 on my software safety final`
`11:19.19`	`Shirik`	`I would also like to point out that each question was like 10 points`
`11:19.25`	`Shirik`	`and it was mostly math`
`11:19.30`	`Shirik`	`so how the hell I can lose 1 point is beyond me`
`11:20.02`	`Shirik`	`"Your computation of reliability in part B was non-orthodox but showed the general understanding of the concept."`
`11:20.11`	`Shirik`	`??`
`11:20.32`	`Cide`	`so your non-orthodox method was 90% right?`
`11:20.44`	`Shirik`	`It's... math`
`11:20.47`	`Shirik`	`it's either right or it's not`
`11:20.50`	`Cide`	`I know`
`11:20.51`	`Shirik`	`there is no "kinda right"`
`11:20.53`	`Shirik`	`1+1 is always 2`
`11:21.13`	`cbreak`	`Shirik: in floating point, there's "close enough" :)`
`11:21.22`	`Cide`	`floating point is exact too`
`11:21.34`	`Cide`	`it's just not continuous :P`
`11:21.36`	`Shirik`	`coughs`
`11:21.47`	`Shirik`	`points to the intel documentation on "Floating Point Inexact Result" error`
`11:22.35`	`Shirik`	`but yes that's just a "stop trying to get so much precision you noob" error`
`11:22.36`	`Cide`	`granted, floating point operations aren't exact`
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`11:23.31`	`Shirik`	`I really would like statistics on how many programs out there actually use that exception`
`11:23.36`	`Shirik`	`you have to explicitly turn it on`
`11:23.45`	`Shirik`	`theoretically it's for research-type applications`
`11:23.49`	`Shirik`	`but I wonder if it's a waste of hardware`
`11:24.51`	`*** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (~chatzilla@ip68-5-190-59.oc.oc.cox.net)`
`11:25.32`	`Cide`	`I don't do floating point operations`
`11:25.37`	`Cide`	`I use decimal.Decimal for everything`
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`11:36.35`	`Shirik`	`Lua needs a CORBA ORB implementation`
`11:36.46`	`Cide`	`why`
`11:36.56`	`Shirik`	`because`
`11:37.03`	`Shirik`	`python has one`
`11:37.04`	`Kalroth`	`:aaaaaaaaaaaah:`
`11:37.09`	`Cide`	`python is better`
`11:37.51`	`Shirik`	`ok I go to sleep now`
`11:37.51`	`Shirik`	`night`
`11:37.56`	`Cide`	`night`
`11:38.35`	`krka_`	`python is crap`
`11:38.39`	`Cide`	`NO`
`11:38.54`	`Cide`	`you should embrace the language your company embraces`
`11:39.30`	`krka_`	`embrace crap? :(`
`11:39.39`	`Cide`	`tell that to your company`
`11:39.52`	`krka_`	`already have!Â½`
`11:43.47`	`Cide`	`psh`
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`12:06.17`	`airtonix`	`GAIZ`
`12:06.20`	`airtonix`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4RiUy23e9s`
`12:06.39`	`*** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys)`
`12:07.10`	`airtonix`	`at this rate, i'll be able to piece together the full movie from the trailers`
`12:10.15`	`ZorbaBeta`	`god I'm glad I have my bulk disenchanting system set up and working`
`12:10.53`	`*** join/#wowuidev Komodo- (~Komodo@188-221-113-46.zone12.bethere.co.uk)`
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`13:19.08`	`harl`	`huhu`
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`13:49.46`	`Kraps`	`http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/12/10/`
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`14:02.22`	`*** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa)`
`14:02.27`	`Lunessa`	`station`
`14:03.41`	`Cairenn`	`wagon`
`14:03.46`	`*** join/#wowuidev Guardix (~Martin@0x5da165ee.hinqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk)`
`14:04.26`	`mitch0`	`bicycle`
`14:04.58`	`Cairenn`	`that doesn't make any sense, mitch0`
`14:05.06`	`Cairenn`	`station bicycle?`
`14:05.20`	`Mike-N-Go`	`Kodo`
`14:05.33`	`mitch0`	`todo`
`14:05.45`	`Cairenn`	`you guys are weird`
`14:05.57`	`Mike-N-Go`	`You don't say?`
`14:06.04`	`Cairenn`	`I just did say`
`14:06.18`	`Mike-N-Go`	`Yah don't say?`
`14:06.25`	`Kraps`	`OHAI crapstorm http://www.thedailyblink.com/2010/12/yes-im-aware-ill-get-letters/`
`14:18.11`	`Lunessa`	`Crack, we smokes it?`
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`14:33.19`	`mikma`	`http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/snoop.jpg`
`14:34.41`	`Kalroth`	`http://i.imgur.com/LZZJx.gif i counter your snoop`
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`14:56.44`	`Fisker`	`I NEED TO GET RID OF THIS COPY OF CATACLYSM`
`14:57.17`	`Thunder_Child`	`then do it?`
`14:57.22`	`Kalroth`	`sell it on ebay`
`14:58.59`	`Fisker`	`not really a key`
`15:02.48`	`*** join/#wowuidev Guardix-lagtop (~Martin@0x5da165ee.hinqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk)`
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`15:28.13`	`Computerpunk`	`~framexml`
`15:28.13`	`purl`	`Download FrameXML code/art from http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=21466 ; or view it online at http://github.com/tekkub/wow-ui-source , http://wowprogramming.com/utils/xmlbrowser or http://wow.go-hero.net/framexml`
`15:36.24`	`Ackis`	`http://warcraftpets.com/community/search.asp?region=US&realm=Scarlet%20Crusade I'm on a realm full of pet collectors it seems`
`15:38.51`	`Fisker`	`your mom is a pet collector`
`15:39.12`	`*** join/#wowuidev _EvilGrin_ (~Geoff@87-194-195-47.bethere.co.uk)`
`15:39.17`	`Ackis`	`well your mom is a whore`
`15:39.28`	`*** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~roboe@50A2E6C0.flatrate.dk)`
`15:46.19`	`*** join/#wowuidev Hirsute (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Hirsute)`
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`15:58.21`	`Ackis`	`zomg Lunessa is a girl? http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/811885-L2Read-Patch-notes (OP's signature :P)`
`16:00.05`	`TC-Work`	`thats a really bad end to the quote`
`16:01.20`	`*** join/#wowuidev djDef_ (forsaken@ip68-107-198-240.mc.at.cox.net)`
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`16:02.26`	`TC-Work`	`huh, it's rather quiet in here this morning`
`16:02.31`	`cogwheel`	`RAWR`
`16:02.49`	`TC-Work`	`thanks cogwheel, that helped my point lots.....`
`16:03.15`	`cogwheel`	`that's what he said?`
`16:04.10`	`TC-Work`	`time to back off of the drinks that mess with your head`
`16:04.21`	`TC-Work`	`you know, that collection on your desk`
`16:04.30`	`cogwheel`	`no time to start on the drinks that put my head back on straight`
`16:04.38`	`cogwheel`	`s/no/no,/`
`16:05.07`	`cogwheel`	`swigs his zero carb rockstar`
`16:05.50`	`cogwheel`	`stupid store stopped stocking Molotov`
`16:06.46`	`Cide`	`haha so`
`16:06.54`	`Cide`	`this is interesting`
`16:07.03`	`Cide`	`is Lunessa secretly a woman and hates what I do`
`16:07.19`	`Cide`	`or do we have someone who is antilunessa with the same nickname`
`16:08.34`	`TC-Work`	`anti in what way?`
`16:09.07`	`Cide`	`being a woman for one`
`16:09.17`	`Cide`	`not beginning the post with station for two`
`16:09.43`	`TC-Work`	`different != anti`
`16:09.54`	`TC-Work`	`please use your workds like a big boy`
`16:09.57`	`TC-Work`	`words*`
`16:10.01`	`Cide`	`please learn`
`16:10.07`	`Lunessa`	`Cide: I'm definitely not a woman.`
`16:10.10`	`Cide`	`for a binary choice then anti is indeed the same as different`
`16:10.19`	`Cide`	`s/then //`
`16:10.48`	`Cide`	`Lunessa: I kind of ruled that out already but thanks for clarifying still`
`16:10.48`	`Lunessa`	`Ackis: I hate when other people use my nicks.`
`16:11.05`	`Cide`	`please use your brain like a big boy TC-Work`
`16:11.07`	`TC-Work`	`no, one or the other does not mean the other is the opposite`
`16:11.17`	`TC-Work`	`Cide: A. i refuse`
`16:11.23`	`TC-Work`	`B. i refuse`
`16:11.32`	`TC-Work`	`C. you have a tiny penis`
`16:12.07`	`Cide`	`ok, binary isn't specific enough`
`16:12.22`	`Cide`	`however, I phrased the alternatives as being quite opposite in nature`
`16:12.39`	`Cide`	`doing something vs not doing it, being a woman vs not being it`
`16:13.09`	`cogwheel`	`http://fckh8.com/Bullies/ <- should be SFW but probably isn't...`
`16:13.17`	`TC-Work`	`absence of something is not the opposite of something`
`16:13.17`	`Lunessa`	`Cide: I also don't hate what you do. You're the Ambassador of Sarcasm in my Kingdom of Wit.`
`16:13.30`	`Cide`	`I am usually the first person to help out another player with questions they have about the game. I hate when someone has a simple question that could easily be answered, and people say "Google" or "WoWhead." If you have to look up every single thing, it would take forever to get anywhere in the game. Could you imagine if the people you worked with always looked everything up instead of asking someone who knows.Â`
`16:13.42`	`Cide`	`I, for one, could, and it would be paradise`
`16:14.20`	`*** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight)`
`16:14.20`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ`
`16:14.58`	`Lunessa`	`Hell yes. After the 30th time I've heard "What happened to teh protals in dal?, OMG!?!?!!11one" I start looking for additional ammunition and a clock tower.`
`16:15.12`	`TC-Work`	`Lunessa: One shot One kill`
`16:15.27`	`Lunessa`	`You got that right.`
`16:15.46`	`alestane`	`Not always the kill you were trying for, but...`
`16:16.16`	`Lunessa`	`You know what's worse? MMO-Champ is a curse.com site and my freaking login on curse is this nick`
`16:16.32`	`TC-Work`	`The sniper credo does not allow for mistakes alestane.`
`16:16.47`	`*** join/#wowuidev Olison_ (olison@fukdruidsgrr.org)`
`16:17.05`	`alestane`	`Mistakes, in my experience, don't particularly care if you allow for them or not.`
`16:17.37`	`TC-Work`	`my point is it's not a mistake. You 'meant' to aim for the target you hity`
`16:17.39`	`TC-Work`	`hit*`
`16:17.40`	`Lunessa`	`shrug When I'm on the clock tower firing 30.06 ammo for kills, I'm pretty sure I no longer care which people I'm shooting.`
`16:18.02`	`*** join/#wowuidev unfo- (unfo@shell.lf.fi)`
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`16:19.19`	`ckknight`	`Lunessa: deep breaths.`
`16:19.37`	`ckknight`	`to calm you down`
`16:19.48`	`ckknight`	`if you're going the sniper route, it's best to fire after exhale`
`16:20.03`	`Lunessa`	`ckknight: Zen mediation and Kendo breathing exercises are no match for a winchester arms 30.06 my friend.`
`16:20.05`	`ckknight`	`though it depends on your technique`
`16:21.10`	`*** join/#wowuidev bryno (~bryno@unaffiliated/bryno)`
`16:21.21`	`TC-Work`	`Lunessa: yes, they are`
`16:21.27`	`*** join/#wowuidev Komodo (~Komodo@188-221-113-46.zone12.bethere.co.uk)`
`16:21.48`	`Lunessa`	`cf: Ancient weapons and hokey religions...`
`16:22.51`	`TC-Work`	`I mean if you don't breathe right you are going to miss.`
`16:23.06`	`*** join/#wowuidev Dezzi (~queue@207-118-147-74.dyn.centurytel.net)`
`16:23.07`	`TC-Work`	`unless you are close enough to use soemthing else`
`16:23.10`	`TC-Work`	`something*`
`16:23.14`	`TC-Work`	`like a shotgun.`
`16:23.17`	`*** join/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (~Dark_Elf@h69-128-35-89.wdrnin.dsl.dynamic.tds.net)`
`16:23.57`	`cogwheel`	`Ackis: they put it in a form you might be able to comprehend: http://darryl-cunningham.blogspot.com/2010/12/climate-change.html`
`16:24.00`	`cogwheel`	`:P`
`16:24.05`	`Lunessa`	`TC-Work: Full Auto Shotgun. When you absolutely, positively have to kill every last mother-f'er in the room. Accept no substitutes.`
`16:24.56`	`TC-Work`	`Lunessa: oh man do i love street sweepers. I am a one shot, one kill kind of person, but man do auto's speak with authority.`
`16:26.15`	`*** join/#wowuidev syrae (~syrae@nat/hp/x-ejuryjiobqascxvv)`
`16:27.00`	`Lunessa`	`If you've seen the Tarantino movie "Jackie Brown:How It Went Down" - then Samuel L. Jackson's character covers it pretty well.`
`16:28.06`	`Lunessa`	`Er, wait.. that's the making of feature. I mean, "Jackie Brown"`
`16:28.33`	`alestane`	`We'll see how far I get with this approach: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1519102746?page=1`
`16:31.35`	`*** join/#wowuidev copystring (11794copy@o0o.o0o.o0o.o88-51-51-6o9.co.uk)`
`16:34.52`	`Lunessa`	`alestane: I'm not confident that it'll get you very far.`
`16:35.31`	`Lunessa`	`cogwheel: Interesting read. Still, comes off as more political than scientific. shrug`
`16:35.46`	`cogwheel`	`Lunessa: that's because the opposition is entirely political and unscientific`
`16:36.21`	`Lunessa`	`cogwheel: And yet I remain unconvinced, and I've no vested political interest in the cause one way or the other.`
`16:37.09`	`alestane`	`It sounds like the OP wants someone to post something he can copy off the forum and paste into his character macros. I'm hoping he'll consider trying to learn something, but well, odds are he'll just whine that he doesn't have anything because he doesn't get macros, they're too hard, that's why he wants us geniuses to solve his problem for him.`
`16:37.19`	`cogwheel`	`Lunessa: the problem is that people who are unconvinced for lack of information are trying to argue against people who are convinced because they DO have the info`
`16:37.20`	`*** join/#wowuidev Aezay (~spam@188.176.98.132)`
`16:37.29`	`cogwheel`	`they need to STFU`
`16:37.30`	`Lunessa`	`alestane: Yup.`
`16:38.07`	`Lunessa`	`cogwheel: nod Appeals to emotion and Authority and FUD seem to be the only tools anyone seems to be using in the debate.`
`16:38.25`	`Lunessa`	`Frankly, I'm sick to death of the whole thing.`
`16:38.25`	`TC-Work`	`that is the worst penguin i have ever seen.`
`16:39.01`	`cogwheel`	`Lunessa: i promise you that's not by the choice of the scientists`
`16:39.15`	`cogwheel`	`it's all responses to FUD by conspiracy theorists`
`16:39.22`	`cogwheel`	`not its own FUD`
`16:39.50`	`alestane`	`cogwheel, that page doesn't want to load for me. Edges of images, but they're glacial.`
`16:39.55`	`Lunessa`	`I'm especially sick of people telling me that I have to have or use less of something who are themselves not having or using less but rather are using the issue for political gain coughAl Gorecough`
`16:40.26`	`cogwheel`	`and I'm sick of people who use examples of individual behavior as any sort of relevant argument to the issue`
`16:40.31`	`cogwheel`	`:P`
`16:40.38`	`cogwheel`	`No scientist cites al gore`
`16:40.44`	`cogwheel`	`but deniers do all the time`
`16:40.59`	`cogwheel`	`they hold him up as some kind of global warming idol`
`16:41.07`	`cogwheel`	`even though no one they're arguing against does`
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`16:42.06`	`Lunessa`	`cogwheel: What I want are facts, unvarnished by political filtering, with no alarmism and emotional slant. Then I'm free to make up my own mind. It's not that I don't think that maybe there's something to know and do here, it's that I can't get past the snarl to real data.`
`16:42.20`	`cogwheel`	`Lunessa: sure you can...`
`16:42.33`	`cogwheel`	`the problem is that the media wants the controversy`
`16:42.51`	`Lunessa`	`And I don't want to quit driving my SUV. :P`
`16:43.04`	`cogwheel`	`and I've no vested political interest in the cause one way or the other.`
`16:43.08`	`cogwheel`	`cough`
`16:43.09`	`cogwheel`	`;)`
`16:43.38`	`cogwheel`	`Lunessa: but you're exposing another flaw in your position`
`16:43.53`	`cogwheel`	`climate scientists aren't nearly as political as the denires would want you to think`
`16:44.19`	`cogwheel`	`and the "doomsday claims" are more a matter of scale than anything else`
`16:44.27`	`cogwheel`	`scientists are used to dealing with long time frames and large numbers`
`16:44.44`	`Lunessa`	`My position is flawed because it's based only on the flawed data I have. But mostly my position is that I'm as yet unconvinced because my data is flawed.`
`16:45.24`	`Ackis`	`cogwheel: TLDR`
`16:45.43`	`alestane`	`I'm pretty much at the point of http://xkcd.com/164/`
`16:45.44`	`cogwheel`	`Lunessa: the problem is people vote based on "unconvinced"`
`16:46.37`	`cogwheel`	`or they don't separate "unconvinced" from "convinced otherwise" at all`
`16:46.54`	`Lunessa`	`cogwheel: nod`
`16:47.23`	`alestane`	`At this point I'm fairly confident that global warming is taking places, that at least some of it is due to human agency, and that it will continue to a sufficient extent to cause significant consequences, probably in my lifetime.`
`16:47.55`	`Lunessa`	`The Swedes will have to build more dams.`
`16:48.16`	`cogwheel`	`The science that says it's happening is virtually indisuptable. the science that says it's our fault is certainly a bit fuzzier, but what's the difference?`
`16:48.34`	`cogwheel`	`If it's not our fault, should we continue doing things we know can only make it worse?`
`16:48.44`	`cogwheel`	`Should we try to do something about it?`
`16:48.50`	`cogwheel`	`(i don't have answers to those)`
`16:49.33`	`alestane`	`I do try to act with some awareness of how much each action contributes to the problem, or if another action would contribute less and be an acceptable substitute.`
`16:49.52`	`Lunessa`	`cogwheel: I'm certain that /something/ is happening climatologically. I'm not sure that that human efforts are the main contributor, and I'm not sure that thing things people are clamoring for are the right answers. Frankly, I think we should be pouring /more/ effort into finding new and interesting places to live.`
`16:49.58`	`*** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~quassel@124-168-59-253.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`16:50.41`	`alestane`	`Rather like my attitude toward high-fructose corn syrup, I try to tend toward low consumption, but don't obsess if I can't make each action absolutely minimal.`
`16:51.26`	`Lunessa`	`alestane: nod Even though I'm avoiding HFCS I'm doing it for personal weight-loss, not a belief that it's evil.`
`16:51.54`	`cogwheel`	`alestane: in related news, a lot of people who harp on high fructose corn syrup use agave nectar as an alternative sweetener. The irony is that agave nectar is far higher in fructose.`
`16:52.33`	`cogwheel`	`Lunessa: in which case you would be avoiding sugar, were it not for the corn subsidies and sugar tariffs`
`16:53.03`	`alestane`	`I suspect it may be pretty evil. Just not sufficiently evil for me to refuse to ever drink anything containing it. I avoid it, and will pay a little extra to support products that don't use it, but if I'm at a friend's house and they offer me a soda I'm not going to make an issue of it.`
`16:53.03`	`Lunessa`	`cogwheel: And I'm avoiding sugar too.`
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`16:53.35`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ`
`16:54.02`	`cogwheel`	`alestane: it's much more a sociopolitical evil than a dietary one imo. Nearly every study on weight loss says the same thing: calories in - calories out = weight gain/loss`
`16:54.12`	`cogwheel`	`regardless of source`
`16:54.18`	`alestane`	`And while I haven't seen clear science for one side or the other yet, the commercials I'm seeing that declare, "Whether it's corn sugar or cane sugar, sugar is sugar" are paid for by the corn farmers' association IIRC.`
`16:54.44`	`alestane`	`cogwheel, my personal experience says that metabolism is simply not that simplistic.`
`16:54.59`	`Lunessa`	`cogwheel: there's some evidence to suggest that fructose is processed by the liver differently, much in the same way ethanol is processed.`
`16:54.59`	`alestane`	`Your body is neither a bank nor a furnace.`
`16:55.03`	`ckknight`	`wth, sucrose is not fructose is not glucose`
`16:55.36`	`cogwheel`	`i purposefully limited my statement to weight loss`
`16:55.37`	`cogwheel`	`;)`
`16:55.59`	`cogwheel`	`ckknight: actually sucrose is both fructose and glucose ;)`
`16:56.07`	`Lunessa`	`And yes, calories in is the major factor.`
`16:56.14`	`alestane`	`It's a synthesis of the two.`
`16:56.19`	`ckknight`	`ah, okay then`
`16:56.47`	`ckknight`	`cogwheel: starve yourself and work out a lot = weight loss`
`16:56.52`	`alestane`	`You can combine it with water to reduce it to glucose and fructose.`
`16:56.53`	`cogwheel`	`indeed`
`16:57.16`	`mikma`	`nevcairiel: has gathermate2_data been updated yet? :P`
`16:58.13`	`nevcairiel`	`what do i care, i dont use it`
`16:58.29`	`Fisker`	`cogwheel`
`16:58.52`	`alestane`	`And from what I've seen, depending on the person, it really does depend on more than simply how many calories are in what you eat versus how many you expend on activity. To briefly extend the financial analogy, it's more like a portfolio than a bank account, depending on types of securities, maturity dates, diversification, etc., rather than a pure comparison of debits and credits.`
`16:59.03`	`Lunessa`	`mikma: Which item are you concerned with? I have a pretty dense map of ore nodes for the expansion.`
`16:59.32`	`Ackis`	`is there a website to track achievement points per realm?`
`16:59.37`	`cogwheel`	`alestane: i trust my personal experience less than i would fisker with my credit card`
`16:59.55`	`cogwheel`	`Science shows it's too often wrong`
`17:00.46`	`cogwheel`	`there are countless variables, indeed`
`17:00.51`	`alestane`	`Or to back off from the analogy, how many calories are measurable in something does not intrinsically correspond to how many calories your body will store as a result of digesting them.`
`17:01.03`	`cogwheel`	`well certainly`
`17:01.11`	`cogwheel`	`i would hope the studies take that into consideration ;)`
`17:01.15`	`alestane`	`Wood contains plenty of calories. So does crude oil.`
`17:01.18`	`cogwheel`	`there is tons of calories in cellulose`
`17:01.23`	`ZorbaBeta`	`yeah, the body's behavior with calories seems to be more important than the actual number of them`
`17:01.41`	`Ackis`	`that's why they tell you to eat 6 times a day`
`17:01.43`	`ZorbaBeta`	`for example, alcohol suppresses testosterone, which is incredibly important for muscle building and weight loss`
`17:02.19`	`ZorbaBeta`	`if you're drinking two beers a day you have to work far harder to lose weight even if your total caloric intake is equivalent`
`17:02.40`	`cogwheel`	`i don't buy "far"`
`17:03.05`	`alestane`	`"far" is extremely subjective, too.`
`17:04.07`	`ZorbaBeta`	`http://www.google.com/#q=alcohol+weight+loss+testosterone pick a link and read :)`
`17:05.05`	`ZorbaBeta`	`it's certainly subjective, but it seems to not be a subtle effect at all.`
`17:05.59`	`cogwheel`	`"Also download the FREE EBook entitled 'All You Need to Know About Alcohol and Weight Loss"`
`17:06.17`	`ZorbaBeta`	`pick another link if you don't like that one, that's why I linked to a google search`
`17:06.18`	`Dagmar`	`goes to look for his chainsaw`
`17:06.30`	`cogwheel`	`is being an ass`
`17:07.10`	`alestane`	`Zorba, the biggest issue I tend to have is that whenever someone finds something that worked for them, they publicize it like a magic bullet.`
`17:07.27`	`mikma`	`lunessa: cata veins, i have lots of them too but my db is stacked with shitloads of old expansion veins and there ain't no way to delete them in masses`
`17:07.40`	`ZorbaBeta`	`alestane, sure, but I'm not talking about "worked for them". there is science showing that alcohol suppresses testosterone, there is science showing that testosterone is important in weight loss and muscle growth`
`17:07.52`	`cogwheel`	`alestane: worse is that people don't understand what "worked for them" really means... much of the time it's more of a "happened at the same time something else worked for me"`
`17:08.10`	`alestane`	`The thing people seem to have trouble considering is that metabolisms are not uniform.`
`17:08.10`	`Dagmar`	`You assume that whatever it was actually worked for them, and that they're not just making shit up wholesale.`
`17:08.13`	`ZorbaBeta`	`this isn't an anecdotal link, this is pretty solid research.`
`17:08.24`	`cogwheel`	`most alt med is supported by post hoc fallacies`
`17:08.39`	`cogwheel`	`ZorbaBeta: yeah it looks like it`
`17:10.42`	`Lunessa`	`mikma: You want my SV file?`
`17:11.15`	`cogwheel`	`alestane: 1) scientists do, 2) the differences aren't as great as things like "eat right for your blood type" would like to make you think`
`17:11.26`	`cogwheel`	`s/do/don't/ (have trouble)`
`17:11.42`	`mikma`	`lunessa: do you have precata veins in it?`
`17:11.54`	`Lunessa`	`mikma: Just Northrend.`
`17:12.09`	`Lunessa`	`And maybe one or two that I picked up after Cataclysm`
`17:12.22`	`alestane`	`I don't place a great deal of credence in the blood type opinion specifically, but the number of potential factors is staggering.`
`17:12.25`	`mikma`	`lunessa: splendid, yes please. i'll combine ours`
`17:12.57`	`Lunessa`	`mikma: http://db.tt/Jmhg55v`
`17:13.12`	`mikma`	`thank you :)`
`17:13.16`	`Lunessa`	`You're welcome.`
`17:13.32`	`Lunessa`	`Note, it's mostly ore, not much else.`
`17:13.41`	`mikma`	`some herbs, too`
`17:14.17`	`mikma`	`~6000 lines of herbs... hehe`
`17:14.33`	`alestane`	`I need to clear some more zones in Gathermate2...the zones that changed level are fairly dramatically modified.`
`17:15.16`	`Lunessa`	`mikma: Gathermate2 allows you to delete stuff by zone if you like too.`
`17:15.20`	`alestane`	`And the deletion code built into GM2 1) works only type-by-type, and 2) doesn't appear to work at all right now.`
`17:15.36`	`mikma`	`lunessa: but it doesn't allow me to delete stuff by expansion :P`
`17:15.55`	`mikma`	`lunessa: treasure is all the chests in old world?`
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`17:16.00`	`*** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (~WiN@unaffiliated/pneumatus)`
`17:16.11`	`alestane`	`Lunessa, can I just tell it to delete all herbs in a particular zone? It wants me to select an herb type, and then it never gets deleted anyway.`
`17:16.14`	`Lunessa`	`mikma: That may be from older sources.`
`17:16.43`	`alestane`	`And to delete them out of the SV files, I need the zone ID number now.`
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`17:20.58`	`mikma`	`lunessa: altho. i have no idea how to combine our sv's :D`
`17:21.11`	`Lunessa`	`mikma: copy/paste.`
`17:21.36`	`Lunessa`	`Or if you have a diff tool that will insert, you can use that.`
`17:21.50`	`Lunessa`	`Then, once you're done, run the de-duping feature.`
`17:22.00`	`mikma`	`copy paste something that has 30k lines :D`
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`17:27.02`	`Lunessa`	`shrug`
`17:28.55`	`Fisker`	`a`
`17:28.56`	`Fisker`	`b`
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`17:31.36`	`foxlit`	`"Wowhead is undergoing a quick maintenance."`
`17:31.49`	`Fisker`	`no foxlit`
`17:31.51`	`foxlit`	`the unfortunate side effect is that wowhead is now everything.`
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`17:35.22`	`Kalroth`	`Sigh! An archeaology spot at Dire Maul is outside the map area and I keep getting "You can't use that here." Anyone know how to fix it or bypass it?`
`17:36.28`	`foxlit`	`There is /ONE/ pair of 333/346 caster leather bracers in the game :/`
`17:37.05`	`Dagmar`	`Good question. I suppose if those nodes are not kept statically once generated you might be able to relog and have it move`
`17:37.16`	`Dagmar`	`I don't see why they'd want to keep the spawns permanently in fixed places`
`17:37.26`	`Kalroth`	`they are fixed`
`17:37.35`	`Kalroth`	`I did try to relog regardless`
`17:37.39`	`Dagmar`	`Damn`
`17:37.41`	`Kalroth`	`I also tried to fly away and back`
`17:37.43`	`Dagmar`	`GM ticket time`
`17:37.52`	`Dewin`	`I wonder if they're so fixed that they survive a server restart`
`17:37.57`	`foxlit`	`the actual spot likely lies inside the zone`
`17:38.06`	`foxlit`	`[I had a similar problem in EPL]`
`17:38.06`	`Jamash`	`I had one where there was about one square inch of space where it let me prospect`
`17:38.11`	`Kalroth`	`I'm right outside the zone on the map`
`17:38.12`	`Jamash`	`but I eventually got`
`17:38.15`	`Jamash`	`*got it`
`17:38.22`	`Jamash`	`also in EPL`
`17:38.23`	`Kalroth`	`this is in a corner`
`17:38.32`	`Jamash`	`corner of what?`
`17:38.40`	`Kalroth`	`of the area`
`17:38.51`	`Jamash`	`yeah, I was right on the edge as well`
`17:39.08`	`Jamash`	`a little bit this way? green pointer. a little bit that way? can't do that here`
`17:39.16`	`Jamash`	`back and forth and back and forth`
`17:39.19`	`Jamash`	`finally got it though`
`17:39.26`	`Kalroth`	`I've been trying for the last 15 minutes :P`
`17:39.26`	`foxlit`	`/hate that cliff!`
`17:39.44`	`Jamash`	`should post on teh forams whether or not you finally get it then`
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`17:46.47`	`Kalroth`	`http://acdev.org/wow_archeaology_dire_maul_bad_spot.jpg right here`
`17:47.17`	`Kalroth`	`I guess it'll reset when servers go down or something`
`17:48.38`	`Kalroth`	`(http://acdev.org/wow_archaeology_dire_maul_bad_spot.jpg I fixed poor spelling :)`
`17:50.07`	`Ackis`	`Kalroth: I've had a few of those I think, you just cross the line, it doesn't work, so go back to the zone and usually it would pop, guess that's not hte case here eh?`
`17:50.29`	`Kalroth`	`I'll try later again, can do some others and then go back`
`17:50.49`	`Kalroth`	`just got druid and priest set, I guess it's random though?`
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`17:54.47`	`Fisker`	`foxlit`
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`18:15.14`	`Kalroth`	`Ackis: Leaving the zone and coming back helped, thanks :)`
`18:15.18`	`Kalroth`	`I got a new spawn spot`
`18:26.31`	`Dagmar`	`Ah... that's useful to know`
`18:27.01`	`Dagmar`	`I didn't expect it to be instantated only while you're in the zone`
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`18:43.00`	`*** join/#wowuidev industrial (~industria@194.145.194.227)`
`18:44.01`	`*** join/#wowuidev Oathblade (Oathblade@c-76-115-31-132.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`18:44.49`	`Dagmar`	`OMG`
`18:44.58`	`industrial`	`ZOMG`
`18:44.59`	`Dagmar`	`The armory just pulled a number on me`
`18:45.26`	`Dagmar`	`In the search results looking for my hunter the mouseover said "85 Survival Hunter"`
`18:45.55`	`Dagmar`	`I have done SV for maybe 10 hours total`
`18:46.09`	`cbreak`	`Dagmar: for me it says "This service is unavailable to any character under level 100."`
`18:46.16`	`Fisker`	`o`
`18:46.17`	`Fisker`	`l`
`18:46.17`	`Fisker`	`d`
`18:46.24`	`Dagmar`	`cbreak: Wow. Your error is better. :)`
`18:46.30`	`Dagmar`	`Woo!`
`18:47.14`	`Oathblade`	`Hi guys, anyone have some advice on where to find info on learning the Mod writing basics?`
`18:48.38`	`Arrowmaster`	`~wowprogramming`
`18:48.38`	`purl`	`wowprogramming is probably World of Warcraft Programming: A Guide and Reference for Creating WoW Addons - http://is.gd/7A3Jx - a book written by Cladhaire (jnwhiteh) and Gazmik, or the companion site and API reference available online for free at http://wowprogramming.com`
`18:49.55`	`*** join/#wowuidev Gagorian (~k@104-172.turkunet.fi)`
`18:51.19`	`Oathblade`	`The wowprogramming says their in seccodn eddition but I cant find it avalible anywhere`
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`18:54.05`	`Arrowmaster`	`guess whats back, http://www.humblebundle.com/`
`18:59.32`	`*** join/#wowuidev Clamgormoraunt (~Clamgormo@75-106-152-165.cust.wildblue.net)`
`19:00.31`	`KarlKFI\|work`	`already have 2/5 of those`
`19:01.24`	`KarlKFI\|work`	`still havent played allt he ones from last year's`
`19:09.46`	`Robsato`	`Is there a way to determine if you are in wolf form or human form as a worgen character?`
`19:10.02`	`Robsato`	`It sdoes not seem to be a shapeshift form and I don't see any buffs to check`
`19:11.17`	`Nechckn`	`Oathblade You want item #1 at http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_29?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=world+of+warcraft+programming&sprefix=world+of+warcraft+programming In stock, and shipping in time for Christmas, if that matters to you. =)`
`19:12.23`	`*** join/#wowuidev Mirrormn (~Mirrormn@h185.187.19.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)`
`19:12.44`	`Oathblade`	`Ah! Thanks Nechckn.`
`19:13.12`	`olafski`	`bleh just did the last 2300 of Set the oven to cataclysmic, turns out I can't use the recipe until I'm honored :(`
`19:15.11`	`Lunessa`	`... http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/12/13/`
`19:16.00`	`Nechckn`	`Oathblade No worries - well worth the ducats!`
`19:16.12`	`Arrowmaster`	`Lunessa: should be kill them off with a taurasq then quit in a huff`
`19:16.27`	`Lunessa`	`Arrowmaster: Players are vampires.`
`19:16.28`	`Oathblade`	`Thats awsome Lunessa`
`19:17.03`	`Oathblade`	`The Tomb of Horrors one was epic too...I still love running fresh faced innocent gamers through it`
`19:18.49`	`Lunessa`	`Tomb of Horrors, "Oh look, we have to crawl through this small opening to get to the loot on the other side. What do you mean I just crawled into a sphere of annihilation?"`
`19:19.00`	`Arrowmaster`	`my old DMs standard line when things started getting out of control was 'you get eaten by a taurasq'`
`19:19.03`	`*** join/#wowuidev Mera (~WAAAGH@mera.wish.you.merry.christmas.heapoverflow.com)`
`19:19.43`	`Clamgormoraunt`	`have probably a dumb question, and I just started using svn, but why is or would it be telling me no repository found?`
`19:20.01`	`Oathblade`	`My first DM put every monster into the random wandering monster table. You could meet a demon prince while out shopping so the Tomb of horrors fit right in :)`
`19:20.13`	`Fisker`	`http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1382.snc4/163413_479288597199_9445547199_5658562_14158417_n.jpg <-this is the only cool thing that's the result of facebook`
`19:20.37`	`*** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@s213-103-219-177.cust.tele2.se)`
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`19:21.31`	`Arrowmaster`	`Oathblade: we got trapped in one of the layers of hell once and had to fight our way out`
`19:23.07`	`Oathblade`	`Sounds like fun`
`19:23.31`	`Arrowmaster`	`i think that was our epic level campaign though so it wasnt that difficult`
`19:23.58`	`Fisker`	`blargh i'm ded`
`19:24.36`	`Oathblade`	`Epic games can be alot of fun, with the right story`
`19:24.55`	`Arrowmaster`	`yeah we were killing deities`
`19:25.11`	`Arrowmaster`	`we died in one round against one of them`
`19:25.48`	`Oathblade`	`Back in AD&D I had a character that tried to beat the gods up..it wasnt pretty`
`19:26.20`	`Oathblade`	`My DM had the Cuthulu Dieties and Demi Gods`
`19:26.24`	`Arrowmaster`	`then we went back and kicked its ass since our sorc knew that time not to go all out with his time stop/meteor combos on his very first turn and nuke the entire party for over 10000 damage each because the enemy had spell reflection`
`19:27.09`	`Oathblade`	`Sounds ilke Final Fantasy :P`
`19:27.49`	`Arrowmaster`	`yeah i got up to goto the bathroom and came back to be to told i was dead`
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`19:28.18`	`Arrowmaster`	`then i reminded the DM i had spell resistance and made him roll it all`
`19:28.21`	`Arrowmaster`	`i almost lived`
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`19:41.59`	`Lunessa`	`A giant steps on you, and you're all dead. Now... GET. OUT. OF. MY. HOUSE.`
`19:42.04`	`*** part/#wowuidev Warlocomotif (~Wim_Barel@abarelds.xs4all.nl)`
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`19:45.20`	`*** join/#wowuidev Warlocomotif (~Wim_Barel@abarelds.xs4all.nl)`
`19:46.52`	`*** join/#wowuidev Noctys (~Noctys__@c-67-182-202-86.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
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`19:53.07`	`Shirik`	`Lunessa o.o;`
`19:53.32`	`Lunessa`	`Shirik: What to say when your D&D group won't go home.`
`19:53.34`	`Shirik`	`was that the shortest D&D game ever?`
`19:53.37`	`Shirik`	`heh`
`19:54.12`	`Ackis`	`12:53boothsI'm not saying you wouldn't enjoy it, but I'm sure 10 minutes on wow feels a lot shorter than 10 minutes with your dick in a meatgrinder.`
`19:54.26`	`Shirik`	`...`
`19:54.27`	`Shirik`	`wtf`
`19:55.13`	`Ackis`	`irc ftw`
`19:55.16`	`Nechckn`	`Ummm... ouch.`
`20:02.57`	`Ackis`	`hmm which heroic is the easiest, and which is the hardest now? I feel an itch to do one tonight`
`20:05.46`	`Elkano`	`no idea, I only hit 84 so far... and haven't even seen any of the dungeons that unlock at that level...`
`20:06.12`	`*** join/#wowuidev shifuimam (~shifuimam@c-76-100-129-70.hsd1.va.comcast.net)`
`20:06.23`	`Fisker`	`i got a huge`
`20:07.06`	`*** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (~xyph@unaffiliated/xyphoid)`
`20:08.23`	`*** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk)`
`20:12.37`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kraftman (5cee6460@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.238.100.96)`
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`20:19.32`	`industrial`	`hmm`
`20:19.59`	`industrial`	`Isn't it possible to macro "Instant" spells together with other spells to perform them after eachother and/or at the same time`
`20:20.11`	`industrial`	`eg spam one button, use a trinket + an ability?`
`20:20.30`	`industrial`	`/cast Hunter's Mark/stopcasting/cast Serpent Sting isn't working for me :(`
`20:20.48`	`Arrowmaster`	`only if the instant doesnt trigger the gcd`
`20:21.06`	`industrial`	`ah, I thought the "Instant" part meant that it wouldn't`
`20:21.18`	`Arrowmaster`	`no most instants trigger the gcd`
`20:21.23`	`industrial`	`guess I won't be using hunter's mark on mobs while soloing then`
`20:21.25`	`Xyphoid`	`there are two types of instant spells - nature's swiftness for example doesn't give a GCD`
`20:21.39`	`Arrowmaster`	`those types are typically from talents though`
`20:22.09`	`Arrowmaster`	`i dont think there are any non talent spells that dont trigger the gcd`
`20:22.53`	`Xyphoid`	`i think spiritwalker's grace is a non-gcd one`
`20:25.26`	`*** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (~Ycarene@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net)`
`20:28.04`	`Lunessa`	`So the Facebook visual that's making the rounds today tells me something about South America and Africa - those places need internet access! (http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=469716398919&id=9445547199)`
`20:30.48`	`ccox`	`and large parts of china, russia, arabia, canada, etc.`
`20:31.02`	`ccox`	`also, australians only live on one side?`
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`20:33.17`	`*** part/#wowuidev mitchnull (~opera@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu)`
`20:33.49`	`Lunessa`	`ccox: large parts of Australia are pretty harsh/difficult to live in.`
`20:34.03`	`ccox`	`yes, but that doesn't stop the US...`
`20:34.23`	`Shirik`	`picked up his alumni ID today`
`20:35.02`	`Lunessa`	`ccox: It's different here. there are very few places which are out and out hostile to human living. Even our biggest deserts aren't on the same scale.`
`20:35.03`	`Xyphoid`	`most of the US isn't desert though`
`20:35.35`	`ccox`	`yes, but look at the plot in the parts that are desert`
`20:35.59`	`ccox`	`not exactly full, but far from empty`
`20:36.24`	`ccox`	`Australia doesn't have the population pressure to force people into those areas`
`20:36.44`	`ccox`	`or the ambitious real estate developers who will turn a desert into a major city (LA, Phoenix, etc.)`
`20:36.45`	`Lunessa`	`We also have better tech infrastructure in those places in large part due to our highway system`
`20:42.16`	`*** part/#wowuidev Clamgormoraunt (~Clamgormo@75-106-152-165.cust.wildblue.net)`
`20:44.34`	`Xyphoid`	`hee, my guild have started complaining about a lack of tanks and healers already`
`20:45.04`	`*** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@s213-103-219-177.cust.tele2.se)`
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`20:52.16`	`Lunessa`	`Anyone in WoW right now that can grab a button name for me?`
`20:52.34`	`*** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@s213-103-219-177.cust.tele2.se)`
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`20:54.23`	`Fisker`	`yes?`
`20:54.47`	`Lunessa`	`I need the name of the character sheet main hand and off hand slots.`
`20:56.13`	`Gagorian`	`Lunessa: http://www.wowpedia.org/ItemEquipLoc ?`
`20:56.13`	`*** join/#wowuidev shifuimam1 (~shifuimam@c-76-100-129-70.hsd1.va.comcast.net)`
`20:56.29`	`Lunessa`	`Oh, even better. Thanks.`
`20:56.45`	`Lunessa`	`Actually, no, not what I need.`
`20:57.51`	`Gagorian`	`http://www.wowpedia.org/API_TYPE_InventorySlotName`
`20:57.53`	`*** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub)`
`20:57.53`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ`
`20:57.54`	`Gagorian`	`?!?!`
`20:58.09`	`Gagorian`	`:)`
`20:58.33`	`Lunessa`	`I need the name of the slot for use in the /click command. If I were at home, I'd just /framestack and get it myself.`
`20:59.00`	`Gagorian`	`Cant you just use the slot number`
`20:59.14`	`Lunessa`	`Not for what I want to do.`
`21:00.08`	`*** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-24-23-41-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`21:00.18`	`Nechckn`	`Something dirty, Lunessa?`
`21:00.20`	`Nechckn`	`;-)`
`21:01.00`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`thats everything he does. :P`
`21:05.15`	`Lunessa`	`Oh baby, let me /click your button.`
`21:06.53`	`Fisker`	`CharacterSecondaryHandSlot?`
`21:07.16`	`Primer`	`Anyone notice if that guild perk that grants 10% speed increase perhaps does NOT work for people who already have 310?`
`21:07.24`	`Fisker`	`was that what you need Lunessa ?`
`21:07.31`	`Primer`	`I was flying at 310 with the perk up, then on my toon without 310, I was doing 318`
`21:08.03`	`Lunessa`	`Fisker, yes.`
`21:08.28`	`Fisker`	`CharacterMainHandSlot for the mainhand then`
`21:12.10`	`TC-Work`	`if a php page access a DB, would the PW be stored in the php page?`
`21:12.42`	`Xyphoid`	`TC-Work: yep`
`21:12.45`	`Xyphoid`	`in general`
`21:13.02`	`Primer`	`Did I accidentally join #php?`
`21:13.05`	`TC-Work`	`ty`
`21:13.14`	`Primer`	`not necessarily, btw`
`21:13.20`	`Primer`	`you can put it in the php.ini`
`21:13.47`	`TC-Work`	`can it be encrypted or obfuscated?`
`21:13.52`	`Primer`	`no`
`21:13.58`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`not in a way that PHP can't get the cleartext back`
`21:14.03`	`Xyphoid`	`fundamentally the php app needs to be able to get at it`
`21:14.10`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`(or in a way that the db can't handle)`
`21:14.25`	`Primer`	`postgresql, on the other hand, supports ~/.pgpass`
`21:14.26`	`Xyphoid`	`you can mitigate things by using a DB user specific to the app, with connection restrictions`
`21:14.34`	`Primer`	`which libpq itself reads`
`21:14.39`	`Primer`	`and can't return that to the client`
`21:15.08`	`Primer`	`you can put the password in my.cnf`
`21:15.22`	`TC-Work`	`hmm....i have access to the DB and all the php files but i dont know the DB PW so i am hunting`
`21:15.26`	`Primer`	`that way the script can't read the password`
`21:15.45`	`Primer`	`/etc/mysql/my.cnf`
`21:16.07`	`Primer`	`it could also be that there is no password, and connections are simply accepted`
`21:16.22`	`Primer`	`or perhaps localhost connections require no password`
`21:16.47`	`Primer`	`presuming the db and the web server are on the same machine, of course`
`21:17.06`	`TC-Work`	`they are, huh, didn't know it could be password free`
`21:17.19`	`Primer`	`of course it can`
`21:17.32`	`Primer`	`mysql -u username dbname <-- don't specify -p`
`21:18.26`	`Primer`	`mysql -u name_of_apache_user dbname <-- defaults to the user running the process for php under apache`
`21:18.52`	`Primer`	`ok, so this is fucked up`
`21:19.15`	`Primer`	`I'm on my DK, flying at 318%, presumably because of the guild perk "mount up", which grants 10% added mount speed`
`21:19.20`	`zenzelezz`	`TC-Work: if you do want to use a password, but keep it secret, it's common to put an include file with the password somewhere that's not accessible from the web`
`21:19.44`	`Primer`	`my DK only has 280% flying`
`21:19.57`	`Primer`	`My druid, who has 310% flying...flies at 310%`
`21:20.15`	`Primer`	`so wtf? There is no DK talent for mount speed any more, right?`
`21:20.34`	`Xyphoid`	`yep, isn't there?`
`21:20.35`	`cbreak`	`Primer: just join a guild, there's a guild benefit for it now`
`21:20.40`	`Xyphoid`	`in frost or something`
`21:20.53`	`Primer`	`uhhh`
`21:21.00`	`Primer`	`cbreak: perhaps you should read what I wrote again`
`21:21.32`	`Xyphoid`	`on a pale horse tier 2 frost`
`21:23.03`	`Primer`	`ok, well, I don't have that`
`21:23.11`	`Primer`	`so I'm thinking this perk is bugged`
`21:23.22`	`Primer`	`others with 310 are telling me they're not seeing it either`
`21:23.37`	`syrae`	`mmm`
`21:24.36`	`Xyphoid`	`do you need a certain rep to get guild perks to work?`
`21:24.49`	`syrae`	`Well, here's an example from me. As a BM hunter, I had Pathfinding for extra 10% speed plus I am riding on a 310% mount. My guildie had only a 310% mount and I was always flying faster. With Mount Up, we now both fly the same speed`
`21:25.15`	`syrae`	`(So I respecced)`
`21:26.08`	`syrae`	`I can test 310% guilded vs 310% unguilded tonight by /gkicking someone, I suppose`
`21:26.20`	`Primer`	`that resets their guild rep though`
`21:26.33`	`syrae`	`hrm`
`21:26.49`	`syrae`	`"It's for SCIENCE!"`
`21:27.05`	`ccox`	`<sarcasm>Scarlet Johansson is single again. There is hope for single guys everywhere.</sarcasm>`
`21:27.28`	`Lunessa`	`ccox: I just want her for a weekend.`
`21:27.46`	`ccox`	`I'd give her a try for longer than that.`
`21:28.04`	`Aurorus`	`can you last longer than that? :P`
`21:28.15`	`ccox`	`yes, can't you?`
`21:28.43`	`Lunessa`	`If I can't deplete my entire stock of pent up sexual energy in 48 hours of sex, I'm not a human, I'm a robot.`
`21:29.16`	`ccox`	`Sorry, I'm a marathoner, not a sprinter..`
`21:34.35`	`Lunessa`	`if you can fuck for 48 hours straight, you're goddamned superman`
`21:36.33`	`cbreak`	`I can imagine all kinds of physical damages I'd rather not imagine thinking about that...`
`21:36.58`	`Lunessa`	`I'm just sayin'. Sorry to disappoint ladies.`
`21:37.42`	`Primer`	`I've been trying to figure out why this macro stopped working. I'm pretty sure it was working before. Here are the first two lines (the only ones that matter):`
`21:37.45`	`Primer`	`/cancelaura [stance:6] Swift Flight Form`
`21:37.51`	`Primer`	`/stopmacro [stance:6]`
`21:38.07`	`Primer`	`I'm trying to make an all-in-one druid flight/mount macro`
`21:38.19`	`cbreak`	`did stances change?`
`21:38.23`	`Primer`	`so, the goal there is to stop flying if I'm flying`
`21:38.32`	`Primer`	`well, 6 matches Swift Flight Form`
`21:38.49`	`Primer`	`if I type the first line while flying, it returns me to humanoid form`
`21:39.07`	`Primer`	`thing is, the last line of that macro is /cast Swift Flight Form`
`21:39.21`	`Primer`	`so I'm canceling and casting it in the same key stroke`
`21:39.29`	`Primer`	`the /stopmacro is what doesn't work`
`21:39.42`	`cbreak`	`well, obviously you're not in stance 6 after canceling`
`21:39.51`	`Primer`	`basically, my understanding was that the stance remains the same throughout the execution of the macro`
`21:39.58`	`Primer`	`this has been true in the past`
`21:40.02`	`cbreak`	`hmm. maybe that has changed`
`21:40.14`	`Primer`	`that's what I'm thinking`
`21:40.57`	`Primer`	`I'm just trying to find out definitively from someone if in fact macros were..."transactional"`
`21:41.09`	`Primer`	`or atomic`
`21:41.15`	`cbreak`	`I did read that spell handling changed`
`21:41.28`	`cbreak`	`so that I can start the next spell while the client still thinks the old is casting`
`21:41.28`	`Primer`	`meaning, that conditionals don't change during the execution of macros`
`21:41.59`	`cbreak`	`so they must have added some state tracking to the client side that was previously on the server`
`21:42.26`	`cbreak`	`canceling an aura would require a server response, but maybe they made it speculative as the rest of the stuff`
`21:42.32`	`cbreak`	`well, guessing.`
`21:43.52`	`Lunessa`	`cancelaura doesn't require a server ack before being applied. Thus in your example, you aren't in form 6 when the /stopmacro is applied.`
`21:44.22`	`Primer`	`that much is obvious`
`21:44.24`	`Lunessa`	`This is because you can't /cancelaura anything which is an ill effect.`
`21:44.27`	`Primer`	`I'm just curious if this changed`
`21:44.35`	`Primer`	`because I'm pretty sure that was the case before`
`21:44.38`	`cbreak`	`they must have changed it :)`
`21:45.01`	`Lunessa`	`Back when they fiddled with it because druids were abusing form-shifting in 3.x`
`21:45.05`	`cbreak`	`earlier, almost everything was server bound`
`21:45.12`	`cbreak`	`even mana regen`
`21:45.59`	`Zasurus`	`I know I can use local arg1 = select(1, ...); to pull something out of the peramiters passed to a function but how can I count the number of values stored in ...?`
`21:46.08`	`Primer`	`I'm not looking to abuse anything. I just want a single situational mount/dismount key`
`21:46.26`	`zenzelezz`	`god damn phasing... seeing all these nice ore veins disappear when I approach`
`21:46.35`	`Primer`	`flyable and in humanoid form? Cast SFF. In SFF? cancelaura SFF.`
`21:46.44`	`Zasurus`	`Zenzelezz: Yer gets me 2`
`21:47.01`	`Fisker`	`penis cbreak`
`21:47.17`	`Kraps`	`so tol barad is really really bad?`
`21:47.18`	`Zasurus`	`Primer: Have you looked at addon's like RandomCompanion?`
`21:48.48`	`Zasurus`	`Primer: I use that to mount/dismount with one button... Also choices the correct mount type for where you are and even randomizes them for fun! :)`
`21:49.00`	`Primer`	`works for druids?`
`21:50.19`	`Zasurus`	`It works for druids but only mounts... I have a macro I use for my druid... sec`
`21:52.03`	`Zasurus`	`Primer: http://pastebin.com/nDhEa5Jc (the /rmt part is for RandomCompanion. I guess you could replace it with another macro that chose the correct mount but it's easyer to use that!)`
`21:52.29`	`*** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-66-38-177.mem.bellsouth.net)`
`21:52.29`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ`
`21:53.57`	`Nobgul`	`Is anyone good with pohotoshop or the equivlent and could shrink a picture for me. When i try the scale goes wacky`
`21:54.50`	`Seerah`	`Nobgul: you can even do that in MS Paint :)`
`21:54.50`	`cbreak`	`scaling an image shouldn't be hard`
`21:54.53`	`Primer`	`Zasurus: thanks`
`21:55.00`	`Zasurus`	`np`
`21:55.01`	`cbreak`	`there are some specific high level algorithms`
`21:55.12`	`Nobgul`	`Seerah, <-----linux on a windows vm machine that has no extra's`
`21:55.12`	`cbreak`	`but those are still research, so you won't use those anyway`
`21:55.29`	`Primer`	`Nobgul: use convert`
`21:55.33`	`Nobgul`	`nvm i found a online tool =P`
`21:55.33`	`Primer`	`on Linux`
`21:55.34`	`Seerah`	`well, what DO you have?`
`21:55.37`	`Seerah`	`:p`
`21:55.37`	`Nobgul`	`Gimp`
`21:55.40`	`Nobgul`	`but i got it lol`
`21:55.50`	`Primer`	`convert -resize Xvalue image.png output.png`
`21:56.00`	`Nobgul`	`oh`
`21:56.02`	`Nobgul`	`keen`
`21:56.02`	`Nobgul`	`ty`
`21:56.05`	`Primer`	`CLI > GUI`
`21:56.07`	`Primer`	`any day`
`21:56.23`	`cbreak`	`nah`
`21:56.30`	`Primer`	`yah`
`21:56.33`	`cbreak`	`you should see the saliency based retargeting papers :)`
`21:56.37`	`Primer`	`convert is part of Imagemagick, btw`
`21:56.43`	`cbreak`	`can't do something like that without a gui, because it's interactive`
`21:57.02`	`Primer`	`for simple shit like resizing, CLI can't be beat`
`21:57.08`	`cbreak`	`yeah, imagemagick is terrible :/`
`21:57.17`	`Primer`	`you're terrible`
`21:57.27`	`cbreak`	`it uses some self written .exe to create visual studio 7 project files for it's windows builds`
`21:57.38`	`cbreak`	`a nightmare to integrate :/`
`21:57.45`	`Primer`	`hehe, building anything on windows is a clusterfuck`
`21:57.50`	`Cide`	`CLI is inherently less powerful than GUI because it's a strict subset of GUI`
`21:57.55`	`cbreak`	`yeah, but not that bad, usually`
`21:58.06`	`Primer`	`Cide: keep thinking that`
`21:58.10`	`cbreak`	`qt built easily. so did boost, opencv, ...`
`21:58.13`	`*** join/#wowuidev dethwulf (~dethwulf@74.117.144.130)`
`21:58.35`	`cbreak`	`but please... double clicking an exe and checking boxes?`
`21:58.36`	`*** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@s213-103-219-177.cust.tele2.se)`
`21:58.36`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ`
`21:58.50`	`cbreak`	`and then starting visual studio to build the libraries?`
`21:58.59`	`Primer`	`How do you like managing your remote windows server over some RDP client which clickety click?`
`21:59.20`	`Primer`	`me, I ssh in, type some shit...done`
`21:59.55`	`cbreak`	`windows servers? you trying to kill me?`
`22:00.06`	`Primer`	`just an example`
`22:00.08`	`cbreak`	`windows can barely hold it's own as client`
`22:00.14`	`Primer`	`I don't run any windows servers, thankfully`
`22:00.15`	`cbreak`	`as server? no thanks...`
`22:01.24`	`Adys`	`http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OfficialGmailBlog/~3/Qo_Wybxi5fk/email-delegation-granting-access-to.html`
`22:02.13`	`*** join/#wowuidev Net (~Netcurse@70-36-245-202.dsl.static.sonic.net)`
`22:03.46`	`Primer`	`OK! apparently /dismount by itself works in Swift Flight Form!`
`22:04.01`	`Primer`	`I always had that with [mounted], which seems to be false in SFF`
`22:04.09`	`Cide`	`hey primer`
`22:04.27`	`*** join/#wowuidev stew-a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753)`
`22:04.29`	`Cide`	`are you a raider?`
`22:04.35`	`Primer`	`yes`
`22:04.43`	`Primer`	`but not currently, no`
`22:04.44`	`Cide`	`what's your wpm?`
`22:04.46`	`Primer`	`since my guild sucks`
`22:04.52`	`Primer`	`a lot`
`22:04.56`	`Cide`	`in the thousands?`
`22:04.59`	`Primer`	`never tested it though`
`22:05.01`	`Primer`	`of course not`
`22:05.08`	`syrae`	`WPM?`
`22:05.09`	`Primer`	`before you say anything`
`22:05.16`	`Primer`	`allow me to amend what I wrote before`
`22:05.21`	`syrae`	`Whines per minute?`
`22:05.26`	`Lunessa`	`ZING`
`22:05.30`	`Primer`	`CLI > GUI for many tasks that people usually use GUIs for`
`22:05.41`	`Cide`	`because it seems to me like you need pretty high wpm to be able to <enter>/cast Nature's Swiftness<enter> or equivalent every 1.5 seconds`
`22:05.41`	`Primer`	`and by CLI I mean, work-type stuff`
`22:05.44`	`Primer`	`not caming`
`22:05.48`	`*** join/#wowuidev ProNihilist (~anathema@cpc4-cani1-0-0-cust597.14-2.cable.virginmedia.com)`
`22:05.50`	`Primer`	`gaming`
`22:06.04`	`Cide`	`tell that to zork`
`22:06.08`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`caning, however, is so much better with a gui`
`22:06.19`	`cbreak`	`CLI is only useful if you can describe what you want to do in few words`
`22:06.26`	`cbreak`	`so, basically, if you want to do something easy`
`22:06.39`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`cli is also useful if the equivalent gui tools are really.. really.. bad.`
`22:06.49`	`cbreak`	`like?`
`22:06.54`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`git on windows?`
`22:07.06`	`Cide`	`git on windows is bad even in cli terms`
`22:07.07`	`Primer`	`let me give you an example`
`22:07.11`	`cbreak`	`what you want to do with git IS easy to describe in few words`
`22:07.15`	`Primer`	`I prefer to do file manipulation in LCI`
`22:07.16`	`Primer`	`CLI`
`22:07.22`	`Cide`	`oh you do?`
`22:07.24`	`Primer`	`open a terminal, cd /path/to/dir`
`22:07.32`	`Primer`	`using tab completion as I go`
`22:07.34`	`Primer`	`ls`
`22:07.36`	`Primer`	`mv`
`22:07.38`	`Primer`	`rm`
`22:07.41`	`Primer`	`etc...`
`22:07.46`	`cbreak`	`I don't do a lot of file manipulation`
`22:07.49`	`Primer`	`I do`
`22:07.50`	`Lunessa`	`Primer: This is IRC, not AIM/YIM. Please finish a whole goddamned thought before pressing enter.`
`22:07.50`	`Cide`	`how do you seek to the middle of a file and write?`
`22:07.52`	`cbreak`	`I use which ever I am on at the moment`
`22:08.08`	`cbreak`	`so cli when programming, gui when managing images, movies and so on`
`22:08.10`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`Cide: true, it is, but the msysgit bash shell is really not bad,and better than any of the windows guis`
`22:08.17`	`Primer`	`Lunessa: Yes ma'am`
`22:08.26`	`Cide`	`tortoisesvn is better than msysgit will ever be`
`22:08.35`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`yeah, it is`
`22:08.38`	`Lunessa`	`...`
`22:08.39`	`cbreak`	`tortoisesvn sucks because it uses svn`
`22:08.42`	`syrae`	`Lunessa: because this IS IRC, you have to type short thoughts quickly to make it in before the other guys otherwise your witty statement will lose context quickly`
`22:08.53`	`Cide`	`cbreak: the gui is quite good which is what we're discussing`
`22:08.59`	`Lunessa`	`syrae: My comments are timelessly witty.`
`22:09.06`	`cbreak`	`tortoisegit sucks because it can't even git add something`
`22:09.07`	`Cide`	`my mom is timeless`
`22:09.12`	`syrae`	`Oh so witty and pretty and gay!`
`22:09.16`	`cbreak`	`come on... a git without git add is worthless`
`22:09.32`	`cbreak`	`and then git add -i... I use that a lot... but no, tortoisegit doesn't have it`
`22:09.59`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`Cide: thats entirely my point, though. for SVN, tortoisesvn is an awesome gui, i never think about using cli with it. but with git, it's reversed. the cli is fully functional, if maybe slightly clunky, but the gui's are just bad/nonfunctional`
`22:10.26`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`ultimately, it depends entirely on the task you're doing, the tools at your disposal, and your skill with them. :P`
`22:10.27`	`cbreak`	`I think tortoisegit has lots of svn-isms`
`22:10.31`	`cbreak`	`they just don't fit git`
`22:10.34`	`*** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@s213-103-219-177.cust.tele2.se)`
`22:10.34`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ`
`22:11.01`	`cbreak`	`cide seems to have a problem with his carrier pidgeons with this weather.`
`22:11.04`	`*** join/#wowuidev Esamynn\|Away (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn)`
`22:11.04`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn\|Away] by ChanServ`
`22:11.16`	`Cide`	`I haven't yet investigated whether it's my router or my isp`
`22:11.39`	`Cide`	`it started occurring right when I got upgraded from 10mbit down to 100mbit down`
`22:11.47`	`Primer`	`addon code runs in a single thread, right?`
`22:12.01`	`Cide`	`yes but that may be misleading`
`22:12.15`	`Cide`	`the whole renderer is single-threaded including game world and interface`
`22:12.18`	`Cide`	`and addons`
`22:12.18`	`Primer`	`and executes until completion? Meaning, if I call one function that calls another that calls another, all of that is atomic?`
`22:12.39`	`Cide`	`yes`
`22:12.50`	`Primer`	`I'm running into some weird issue with my addon, where it seems that there's concurrency`
`22:12.56`	`cbreak`	`Primer: if you do something that takes 1 second, then you get 1fps at most.`
`22:12.56`	`Primer`	`but...I know this can't happen`
`22:13.14`	`cbreak`	`wow has almost no concurrency to note.`
`22:16.02`	`Olison`	`~seen nymbia`
`22:16.14`	`purl`	`nymbia <~nymbia@c-67-176-64-44.hsd1.co.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowace, 61d 23h 22m 7s ago, saying: 'sounds like blizz has their hands full with this one though. disappearing characters, disappearing enchants, renamed warlock pets..'.`
`22:17.25`	`*** join/#wowuidev a-stray-cat (~stray@c-76-20-13-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`22:17.56`	`Fisker`	`nymbia was my friend :(`
`22:18.14`	`syrae`	`Fisker: until you killed him`
`22:18.18`	`syrae`	`you fiend`
`22:18.40`	`Olison`	`WTB Season 9 gear in LibPeriodicTable`
`22:18.56`	`*** join/#wowuidev xqo (~xqo@195.131.251.212.customer.cdi.no)`
`22:19.48`	`Lunessa`	`drops a nuke from orbit. It was the only way to be sure.`
`22:19.55`	`*** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (~MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower)`
`22:19.56`	`*** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ`
`22:20.03`	`Fisker`	`yeah syrae`
`22:20.08`	`Fisker`	`he was the guy i once killed :(`
`22:20.16`	`Fisker`	`does that make me a bad person?`
`22:20.26`	`syrae`	`perhaps. Did he eat kittens?`
`22:20.57`	`Fisker`	`i don't think so`
`22:21.11`	`syrae`	`then it probably makes you a bad person`
`22:21.20`	`syrae`	`Fisker: did he drop anything good?`
`22:21.55`	`Fisker`	`nope`
`22:22.27`	`syrae`	`I just had a horrible thought.`
`22:22.42`	`Lunessa`	`wait, you had a thought?`
`22:23.14`	`syrae`	`We all "play" on a "PvP server" that is real life. And it's only because we have consequences for our actions that most people don't go around "ganking" other people.`
`22:23.15`	`Primer`	`sigh, seems more broke than I thought`
`22:24.09`	`syrae`	`But the thought of 40 young men forming a raid to take out the President of the US for an achievement is just... disturbing.`
`22:24.36`	`Fisker`	`Lunessa`
`22:24.42`	`Lunessa`	`Well, what do you think wars are? They're raid groups with a LOT of puggers.`
`22:24.48`	`syrae`	`yeah`
`22:24.50`	`syrae`	`sadly`
`22:24.55`	`syrae`	`no respawns`
`22:25.03`	`industrial`	`m`
`22:25.04`	`industrial`	`hm*`
`22:25.51`	`syrae`	`At least this line of thought temporarily distracted me from being impatient`
`22:26.18`	`syrae`	`I was told that I will be getting a very generous job offer today...`
`22:26.35`	`industrial`	`got a contract offer today`
`22:26.35`	`syrae`	`HUGE raise and everything, but until I see it, I don't want to bank on it`
`22:26.47`	`industrial`	`is going to sign it tomorrow`
`22:26.56`	`syrae`	`industrial: congratulations`
`22:26.57`	`industrial`	`victory-dance`
`22:27.17`	`Lunessa`	`Yeah. Jobs are good.`
`22:27.21`	`syrae`	`mmhrm`
`22:28.01`	`industrial`	`I used to have a macro that would cast hunter's mark on my mouseover if it was an enemy and if that didn't exist target an enemy (like tab does) and cas't hunters mark on that, then made my pet attack`
`22:28.07`	`industrial`	`but I can't remember how I made that :\|`
`22:28.19`	`Xyphoid`	`oh wow, the ilvl change is neat`
`22:28.27`	`industrial`	`Xyphoid: change?`
`22:28.49`	`Xyphoid`	`an ilvl 300 blue is the same stat points as an ilvl 300 green as an ilvl 300 epic`
`22:29.00`	`industrial`	`IC`
`22:29.24`	`industrial`	`is having a bitch of a time getting to the HC cap. Even resorted to resto-ing normals on my shammy and really just leveling my hunter to 85 now instead ...`
`22:29.28`	`Xyphoid`	`i was wondering why epics were such high ilvl relatively`
`22:30.03`	`syrae`	`Xyphoid: I think I understand what you're saying, and that does sound neat. Makes calculating iLevel make a lot more sense`
`22:30.41`	`cbreak`	`blizzard's stupid reliance on iLevel is sad`
`22:30.44`	`Xyphoid`	`the example i was linked is http://www.wowhead.com/item=55040 vs http://www.wowhead.com/item=56093`
`22:30.52`	`*** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar)`
`22:31.09`	`cbreak`	`I outdamaged someone one level higher, with better gear.`
`22:33.45`	`Fisker`	`dyes industrial`
`22:34.33`	`KarlKFI\|work`	`so the only difference between a green and an epic of the same ilevel will be the spread?`
`22:34.51`	`Cide`	`cbreak: so what do you propose to keep people with low hps/dps/hp out of instances?`
`22:35.03`	`Cide`	`a training dummy test?`
`22:35.11`	`Cide`	`seems a bit complex`
`22:35.33`	`Cide`	`the requirements are already quite kind (historically, though I understand there were some miscalculations for cataclysm)`
`22:35.43`	`Xyphoid`	`KarlKFI\|work: the only difference is the color and where it comes from`
`22:35.52`	`industrial`	`glimmers masculine bronze`
`22:35.57`	`industrial`	`FLEX`
`22:36.25`	`Xyphoid`	`so rather than having ilvl 200 greens from quests, ilvl 200 blues from dungeons, and ilvl 200 epics from raids, you have ilvl 300 greens from quests, ilvl 333 blues from dungeons, and ilvl 359 epics from raids`
`22:36.28`	`KarlKFI\|work`	`now im even more confused`
`22:36.49`	`Fisker`	`the new system is nice`
`22:37.02`	`KarlKFI\|work`	`ok so ilevel will indicate the stats, and not the level it was gained`
`22:37.02`	`Fisker`	`color is actually rarity now kinda like classic`
`22:37.19`	`Fisker`	`only problem is the problem with maelstrom crystals`
`22:37.22`	`pnorman`	`ilvl has never had a direct relationship with clvl`
`22:37.38`	`KarlKFI\|work`	`no but it was a comparable tier`
`22:37.42`	`KarlKFI\|work`	`now it's not`
`22:37.53`	`Fisker`	`i wonder if they brought back the 1% chance(or whatever it is) to get a maelstrom on dissing a blue`
`22:37.54`	`Xyphoid`	`not really, since you had 3+ tiers at 60 70 80`
`22:37.54`	`*** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-76-116-64-179.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)`
`22:37.54`	`pnorman`	`ilvl still has an indirect relationship with level gained`
`22:38.07`	`Xyphoid`	`so kind of a relationship but a really odd graph`
`22:38.29`	`pnorman`	`Yes. It was an odd relationship before, and it's still pretty much the same odd relationship.`
`22:38.32`	`*** join/#wowuidev voodoodad (~voodoodad@173-26-237-78.client.mchsi.com)`
`22:38.35`	`Xyphoid`	`what is the problem with maelstrom crystals`
`22:38.35`	`KarlKFI\|work`	`i'm not complaining, just saying it doesn't mean what it used to mean`
`22:38.49`	`Cide`	`it means what it's always meant`
`22:39.00`	`Cide`	`the old "relationship" was purely coincidental`
`22:39.03`	`Fisker`	`Xyphoid we have less epic level gear now`
`22:39.04`	`pnorman`	`Yes it does - unless you're referring to the change of the coefficients on the ilvl to statpoint formula`
`22:39.26`	`Fisker`	`we had heroic epics, they're gone now and we had justice point epics, they're gone now as well(until next tier)`
`22:39.28`	`KarlKFI\|work`	`they want ilevels to be directly comparable, so they can have a simpler matching equation`
`22:39.33`	`Xyphoid`	`oh right`
`22:39.37`	`KarlKFI\|work`	`and leave out color`
`22:39.51`	`Xyphoid`	`that was a bit odd i guess`
`22:39.58`	`Fisker`	`on the upside you can now disenchant pvp gear`
`22:40.09`	`KarlKFI\|work`	`bout damn time`
`22:40.11`	`Xyphoid`	`i wonder if valor point stuff will become blue when you can buy it with jps`
`22:40.34`	`Fisker`	`i hope not :P`
`22:40.35`	`*** join/#wowuidev a-stray-cat (~stray@c-76-20-13-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`22:40.40`	`pnorman`	`I still need to do my fits to do the ilvl to statpoint formula`
`22:40.58`	`Xyphoid`	`it'll be weird to have half epic half blue on the single vendor`
`22:40.59`	`Fisker`	`they might want to put like a 5-10% drop chance for maelstrom crystals on disenchanted high level blues`
`22:41.06`	`KarlKFI\|work`	`so i guess gear score only needs an average ilevel, unless you want to know if it's related to their spec.`
`22:46.37`	`*** part/#wowuidev Sesshu (~Sesshu@ip-39-19.travedsl.de)`
`22:53.01`	`pnorman`	`Oh - for anyone interested, statpoints = slotmod * 34.480*exp(ilvl/107.549)`
`22:53.57`	`pnorman`	`Which means the %difference between two levels would be the same as for wotlk, but the values are higher`
`22:54.07`	`pnorman`	`er, would be the same as for wotlk epics`
`22:55.35`	`Kraps`	`i hope they do Fisker`
`22:56.22`	`Kraps`	`like totalbiscuit said, just to piss off the whiners`
`22:58.38`	`*** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys)`
`22:59.29`	`Lunessa`	`alestane: http://textsfromlastnight.com/Text-Replies-23207.html`
`23:00.52`	`syrae`	`whut?`
`23:06.38`	`*** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys)`
`23:08.27`	`Lunessa`	`And on that note... I'm out. Later all.`
`23:14.09`	`zenzelezz`	`http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/12/14/183228/Google-Patents-Browser-Highlight-All-Button - wtf?`
`23:16.08`	`Nobgul`	`hehe`
`23:25.17`	`Kraps`	`http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/12/14/archaeology-receives-stealth-buff/`
`23:27.19`	`zenzelezz`	`apparently selling Saronite Bars is quick and easy o_O`
`23:27.23`	`Nobgul`	`how big is the update today?`
`23:29.17`	`Kraps`	`aww, this means i'll have to restart my computer`
`23:29.45`	`Kraps`	`it never goes past the updated tools thing`
`23:30.26`	`Nechckn`	`Totally offtopic... Does anyone have an eliptical at home or have any thoughts about which one is better/good?`
`23:32.22`	`Nechckn`	`proves just how crazy he is asking in a WoW-related channel about such a machina.`
`23:32.56`	`Dagmar`	`Next thing you'll probably be asking us to jump up and down`
`23:33.52`	`Nobgul`	`Nechckn, How much you looking to spend?`
`23:33.55`	`Nechckn`	`Well, it is one of those things where I just do not know- yet I need one.`
`23:34.41`	`Nechckn`	`No set amount in mind, Nobgul`
`23:34.45`	`Nobgul`	`Well I mean top of the line ish Nordic trac`
`23:34.55`	`Nobgul`	`We have one. Its really nice but around 1k ish`
`23:35.28`	`Nobgul`	`Top of the line ish home line`
`23:35.38`	`Nechckn`	`So you have one and have used it and all is what you jmean, right`
`23:35.46`	`Nechckn`	`sturdy and such?`
`23:35.56`	`Nobgul`	`We have 4 of them.`
`23:36.09`	`Nechckn`	`The most exp I have with 'em are the informercials, tbh.`
`23:36.11`	`*** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (~kvirc@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net)`
`23:36.12`	`Nobgul`	`The nordic is the cheapest of what we have but the others are commercial.`
`23:36.30`	`Nobgul`	`Its strong. Moves well and they stand behind the product`
`23:36.35`	`Nechckn`	`One of the few areas where I have absolutely no clue... (For seriously)`
`23:36.53`	`Nechckn`	`okay... any idea about the next level down, perhaps?`
`23:37.12`	`Nechckn`	`or any sites or something with relatively reliable ratings?`
`23:37.40`	`Nechckn`	`I mean, I keep finding things that say one is great.. then another site says different.`
`23:38.19`	`Nechckn`	`I do appreciate the first hand account, though! ;-)`
`23:38.50`	`nicoli_s`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HyQa3xEPLg \`
`23:39.00`	`*** join/#wowuidev Tuller (~tuller@c-69-143-52-174.hsd1.va.comcast.net)`
`23:39.59`	`Nechckn`	`I am afraid to learn of how you found that one, nicoli_s`
`23:40.42`	`nicoli_s`	`points to ckknight`
`23:41.01`	`nicoli_s`	`he isnt here so i can tell you all about how he does this when hes at home`
`23:41.06`	`nicoli_s`	`ask him about it when he comes back`
`23:41.44`	`Kraps`	`has anyone tried Vindictus?`
`23:42.11`	`nicoli_s`	`i enjoyed it`
`23:42.22`	`nicoli_s`	`i couldnt see myself playing it long term, but its very fun`
`23:42.48`	`nicoli_s`	`and while playing wow ive always thought "man id love to smash that orc with a barrel" and with vindictus you can!`
`23:42.49`	`Kraps`	`well its f2p so... :)`
`23:42.56`	`Kraps`	`heh`
`23:43.17`	`nicoli_s`	`well yeah but from what ive heard the game gets repetitive at later levels`
`23:55.59`	`Kraps`	`hah, in the Vindictus store, underwear is called "inner armor"`

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