| 00:00.12 | Xyphoid | which is kind of interesting, it implies that if you don't buy cataclysm you stay in old azeroth |
| 00:00.18 | Wimpeh | So it's like patch 3.0, world event and talent/spells? |
| 00:00.25 | Arrowmaster | damnit i want to know if the game in the legendary version is the same as the normal one or if its got 'not for resale' and such labeled on it |
| 00:00.26 | Xyphoid | (http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/26725676005/how-do-we-fly/) |
| 00:00.58 | Arrowmaster | has two preorders for Reach, one that he can get at midnight and another that he has to wait until 10am tomorrow to get |
| 00:02.02 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|netbook (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 00:03.05 | Wimpeh | "Butchering the human carcass." -- God I love Dexter. |
| 00:03.29 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (~theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:04.11 | Wimpeh | That seemed weird. |
| 00:04.18 | Arrowmaster | Dexter Episode Info |
| 00:04.18 | Arrowmaster | Next Episode: |
| 00:04.18 | Arrowmaster | 49: 5x01 -- My Bad (Sep/26/2010) |
| 00:04.32 | Arrowmaster | SOON! |
| 00:04.35 | Wimpeh | Amagad new season already |
| 00:04.41 | Wimpeh | :33333333 |
| 00:04.57 | Wimpeh | I'm going through each season, as Season 4 is airing right now in Sweden and I missed a lot of 1-2-3. |
| 00:05.21 | Arrowmaster | season 4 ending makes you want to throw a chair at the tv |
| 00:05.35 | Wimpeh | Please don't spoil. |
| 00:05.39 | Arrowmaster | im not |
| 00:05.41 | Arrowmaster | just saying that |
| 00:05.47 | Wobin | http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tastes_like_chicken&diff=next&oldid=371110792 |
| 00:05.50 | Wimpeh | Tell me one thing though |
| 00:05.51 | Wimpeh | is it like |
| 00:06.04 | Wimpeh | "ANGER THROW CHAIR RAWRR" or "WHYY DID THAT HAPPEN :((((" |
| 00:06.34 | Arrowmaster | "WHAT THE FUCK! WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT! WHY! RAGE RAWRR!" |
| 00:06.40 | Wimpeh | I see. |
| 00:06.46 | Wobin | <insert LOST reaction here> |
| 00:06.59 | Arrowmaster | im happy to say ive never seen any of LOST |
| 00:06.59 | Wimpeh | They're killing off someone in the show. fffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkk |
| 00:07.10 | Wimpeh | No more info must be shed. |
| 00:07.16 | Wobin | isn't the whole -point- of Dexter is that someone gets killed? |
| 00:07.29 | Wobin | s/ is// |
| 00:07.31 | Wimpeh | Someone important and probably been in the show for a long time |
| 00:07.36 | *** join/#wowuidev kapipi (~tor@raichu.netlab.jp) |
| 00:07.40 | Arrowmaster | since season 1 |
| 00:08.01 | alestane | Lunessa: http://textsfromlastnight.com/Text-Replies-20537.html |
| 00:08.04 | Wimpeh | My guess is Angel or Debra. Though no spoilers! |
| 00:08.16 | alestane | And my first thought was, "Yeah, that explains it." |
| 00:08.17 | Wimpeh | Wai |
| 00:08.24 | Arrowmaster | the other people they kill off have never been in the show for more than one season, except the one dude |
| 00:08.37 | Lunessa | alestane: I think my mind just broke |
| 00:08.44 | Wimpeh | Lundy was killed off |
| 00:08.46 | Wimpeh | He was in 2 seasons |
| 00:08.48 | Wimpeh | if not more |
| 00:08.51 | Arrowmaster | 2 |
| 00:08.55 | Wimpeh | Yeah |
| 00:09.04 | Arrowmaster | oh and i guess that other detective counts |
| 00:09.10 | Wimpeh | Doakes? |
| 00:09.17 | Arrowmaster | the one they thought was the bay harbor butcher |
| 00:09.24 | Wimpeh | Wait what who |
| 00:09.28 | Wimpeh | Missed a lot of 1-2-3 |
| 00:09.28 | *** join/#wowuidev kapipi (~tor@raichu.netlab.jp) |
| 00:09.41 | Arrowmaster | the one that got exploded at the end of season 2 |
| 00:09.50 | Wimpeh | Wasn't that Doakes |
| 00:09.56 | Arrowmaster | i think |
| 00:09.57 | Wimpeh | Who figured Dexter out |
| 00:10.01 | Wimpeh | The black guy? |
| 00:10.03 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 00:10.08 | Wimpeh | Yeah that was Doakes |
| 00:10.13 | Wimpeh | He figured out who Dexter was IIRC. |
| 00:10.18 | alestane | I've seen roller derby, Lunessa. It's this strange synthesis of roller skating, NASCAR, demo derby and pro wrestling. They all have stage names, usually a lot like that. |
| 00:10.43 | Wobin | alestane: *agrees* |
| 00:10.45 | Lunessa | Yes, I've been exposed once or twice. It's ... something. |
| 00:11.06 | Wobin | Roller Derby is indeed generally mindbreaking |
| 00:11.13 | Wimpeh | The only thing I dislike about Dexter is that I always know he'll be okay because if he isn't, the show goes down the shitter. |
| 00:11.17 | alestane | The town I grew up in actually has a team now. |
| 00:12.01 | Wobin | Wimpeh: You didn't hear how in the new season he raises a kid? Gives him his own lab and everything |
| 00:12.05 | Wobin | <.< |
| 00:12.07 | Wobin | >.> |
| 00:12.09 | Wimpeh | STOP IT |
| 00:12.10 | Wimpeh | WHY |
| 00:12.24 | Arrowmaster | hes fucking with you |
| 00:12.24 | Wimpeh | I hate you more than everything now |
| 00:12.31 | Wimpeh | What if he's not :( |
| 00:12.38 | Wimpeh | That was mean |
| 00:12.41 | Wimpeh | In every way possible. |
| 00:12.45 | Arrowmaster | then hes seen season 5 and i havent |
| 00:12.56 | Wimpeh | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:12.57 | Wobin | has not seen a single episode of Dexter =P |
| 00:13.06 | Arrowmaster | you should watch it |
| 00:13.10 | Wimpeh | Thanks Arrowmaster. :) BIAF Wobin. :( |
| 00:13.17 | Dagmar | It's actually a pretty good show. |
| 00:13.20 | Wobin | and was referring to a terrible Nickelodean cartoon =P |
| 00:13.24 | Dagmar | @#$@# slow copy queues |
| 00:13.34 | Wimpeh | Oh right |
| 00:13.36 | Dagmar | Hey that cartoon is good too |
| 00:13.42 | Wimpeh | Dexter's Lab. That was good. |
| 00:13.44 | Wimpeh | Let's talk about that instead. |
| 00:13.53 | alestane | The away Jammer was called "Sugar Plum Fury," Lunessa, which I actually find very funny for some reason. |
| 00:13.55 | Wobin | meh, I have no love for any of the modern cartoons |
| 00:14.06 | Wobin | bring back Merrie Melodies/Looney Tunes =( |
| 00:14.25 | Wobin | Lost Cities of Gold |
| 00:14.26 | Dagmar | I kinda wish they didn't nuke the toon bank on the PTR |
| 00:14.44 | Wobin | (Aaaaaaaaaaahhh. someday we will find... the ciiities of goooooooold) |
| 00:14.59 | Wimpeh | HE-MAN HE-MAN. And the masters of the universe! |
| 00:15.18 | Arrowmaster | ive got "LOONEY TUNES - GOLDEN COLLECTION - VOL. 1-6" |
| 00:15.33 | Arrowmaster | i dont think it contains any pinkie and the brain though which makes me sad |
| 00:15.43 | Arrowmaster | are you thinking what im thinking? |
| 00:15.44 | krka_ | I think so Arrowmaster, but if you replace the "P" with an "O", my name would be Oinky, wouldn't it? |
| 00:16.01 | Wimpeh | Wait, what? |
| 00:16.20 | Dagmar | narfs. |
| 00:16.24 | Arrowmaster | that was on looney tunes wasnt it? |
| 00:16.31 | Dagmar | Yep. |
| 00:17.05 | alestane | http://textsfromlastnight.com/Text-Replies-20517.html |
| 00:18.18 | Arrowmaster | yah ive only got 1930 - 1966 looney tunes |
| 00:18.30 | Wimpeh | That is old. |
| 00:18.39 | Wimpeh | 28 years before I was even born. |
| 00:19.02 | Lunessa | alestane: Especially since she was probably more butch than you and I combined? |
| 00:19.33 | alestane | The roller derbyist? Entirely possible. She was up against Pushy Galore. |
| 00:21.37 | alestane | I might have to make a gnome or BE warrior (or possibly goblin) named "Sugrplumfury" now tho'. |
| 00:23.12 | Wimpeh | I was thinking about making a BE Warrior. |
| 00:23.17 | Wimpeh | They could look perfect. |
| 00:23.27 | alestane | This is actually not terrible client feedback: http://clientsfromhell.net/post/1109474923/the-typography-does-not-please-us-too-much-tim |
| 00:23.31 | Jerub | i'm trying to decipher what blizzardCS means when they say that the queue for escaltated tickets is +1h |
| 00:23.45 | Jerub | does that mean that they take 1 hour more? 1 hour after escalation? 1 hour in total? |
| 00:25.04 | alestane | http://notalwaysright.com/grandma-vs-the-internet/7018 /facepalm |
| 00:26.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Sixen@173-25-23-86.client.mchsi.com) |
| 00:26.17 | Dagmar | Means longer than an hour |
| 00:26.47 | Gnarfoz | which would usually be expressed as 1h+, but this is blizzard |
| 00:27.01 | Zhinjio | prefix notation ftw |
| 00:30.46 | Wimpeh | So hungry |
| 00:31.17 | Wimpeh | So hungry, strict diet. Slashcry. |
| 00:32.17 | Dagmar | Hardware geeks may or may not like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qWhYlhfWCI |
| 00:32.22 | Dagmar | Ice-T repairing a Mac. |
| 00:32.25 | Dagmar | ...using a claw hammer. |
| 00:32.43 | Zhinjio | does it fix the problem? *grin* |
| 00:33.05 | Dagmar | I think so. :) |
| 00:34.06 | Dagmar | There's not even a screwdriver involved |
| 00:34.33 | alestane | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/09/13/funny-pictures-nothing-to-see-here-folks/ |
| 00:36.20 | alestane | Cairenn: http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/09/13/funny-picturs-gif-kitteh-teh-pooh/ |
| 00:36.34 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 00:37.29 | Wimpeh | Looks painful :( |
| 00:39.10 | alestane | Cats can fit through pretty much anything that they can get their head through. |
| 00:39.19 | Wimpeh | I know. |
| 00:39.24 | alestane | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/09/12/funny-pictures-stupid-tattletale-dog/ |
| 00:39.26 | Wimpeh | Still looks painful. Makes me sadpanda. |
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| 01:11.22 | Wimpeh | test |
| 01:11.51 | Shirik | failed |
| 01:12.10 | Wimpeh | The test was succesful! |
| 01:17.47 | batrick | no u |
| 01:17.56 | batrick | g'evening shirik |
| 01:28.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Borgleader (~borgleade@modemcable253.146-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 01:28.32 | ScytheBlade1 | NOU |
| 01:28.42 | ScytheBlade1 | also, I had 65h of overtime last month |
| 01:28.43 | ScytheBlade1 | =[ |
| 01:29.41 | Wimpeh | Needs more overtime, and cowbell. |
| 01:35.07 | Wimpeh | Night. :) |
| 01:40.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@68-191-37-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 01:40.58 | Amarande | sooo ... with the new changes to threat in 4.0/Cata, does this mean that "DPS rotations" as we know them now are going to become less and less important? |
| 01:41.15 | Jerub | interesting question. |
| 01:41.18 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 01:41.18 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 01:41.23 | Amarande | Jerub: mainly I'm thinking |
| 01:41.35 | Amarande | the reason we have rotations the way we do now |
| 01:41.39 | Jerub | currently you do max dps and you only look at your energy/mana bar and cooldowns |
| 01:41.49 | Amarande | is because the way threat is in LK, unless your tank sucks, yeah, you only look at your energy/mana bar and you pewpew every GCD |
| 01:41.51 | Dagmar | Wow the PTR is MEAN |
| 01:41.58 | Amarande | it sounds like in Cata we're going to have to hold back a lot, on the other hand |
| 01:41.59 | Jerub | but if you're threat constrained you just whack stuff when the tanks threat get's 10% more than yours :P |
| 01:42.04 | Amarande | like we did in BC |
| 01:42.05 | Jerub | Dagmar: howso? |
| 01:42.07 | Jerub | what's it like? |
| 01:42.22 | Dagmar | Fire it up now and it says "World of Warcraft: Cataclysm Beta Patch Notes (version 12942)" |
| 01:42.32 | Amarande | Dagmar: I'm still trying to figure out what to spec on my DK on PTR |
| 01:42.39 | Dagmar | ...up to and including talking about Tol Barad being available for testing |
| 01:42.43 | Amarande | I don't know these new talent trees at all |
| 01:42.57 | Amarande | also I just *boggled* at Vladoka's new sigil |
| 01:43.00 | Dagmar | Amarande: as soon as my freaking charcopy goes through I'm going to start on the math |
| 01:43.21 | Amarande | it's totally different from her sigil on live, it looks more like a physical equivalent to the sort of items casters carry in their offhand |
| 01:43.29 | Amarande | and it has a SOCKET of all things |
| 01:43.46 | Jerub | sigils are becoming stat sticks aren't they? |
| 01:43.53 | Jerub | instead of procsticks |
| 01:44.00 | Amarande | hmm, also does this mean that shamans and druids are basically going to have dual offhands? |
| 01:44.05 | Xyphoid | yeah, unifying wands, ranged weapons, and sigils |
| 01:44.07 | Jerub | sure. |
| 01:44.09 | Amarande | the regular offhand, plus the fact that relics are basically becoming like offhands? |
| 01:44.34 | Amarande | and by "shaman" I mean "ele/resto shaman" of course |
| 01:44.47 | Amarande | nobody will want to play an enhancement shaman in cata, probably :) |
| 01:44.59 | Amarande | at least, nobody sane |
| 01:45.02 | Amarande | masochists will, I guess :) |
| 01:45.09 | Jerub | why not? |
| 01:45.14 | Xyphoid | i thought yesterday you were saying casters were worthless in cata |
| 01:45.25 | Dagmar | He says a lot of things that are baseless |
| 01:45.42 | Amarande | Jerub: remember, threat is tighter in cata |
| 01:45.51 | Amarande | enhancement shaman was kind of masochistic to play in BC, too |
| 01:45.53 | Jerub | Xyphoid: Amarande isn't actually talking, he's got an irc client that he spams QQQQQQQQ in and it translates it into things to be upset about. |
| 01:46.05 | Amarande | because you were always on the precipice of pulling aggro, which for shamans means you die :) |
| 01:46.05 | Jerub | it feeds off his tears |
| 01:46.17 | Xyphoid | i bet you $5 people will play enhancement shamans in cata |
| 01:46.22 | bluspacecow | word |
| 01:46.31 | Amarande | Xyphoid: probably only people who really like to live on the edge though :) |
| 01:46.52 | Amarande | because with BC/Cata style threat, that's where you're going to live with an enh shaman. |
| 01:46.55 | Amarande | or die, if you screw up. :) |
| 01:47.25 | Amarande | I know in BC at least enh shamans always had it the worst in that regard for two reasons |
| 01:48.04 | Amarande | 1) death was their only aggro drop (is it still? I haven't played my shammy since BC), and 2) in addition to having no aggro drop and not wearing plate, they're melee and thus have the 110% threatcap instead of the 130% like ele and cloth |
| 01:48.17 | Amarande | at least rogues can vanish :) |
| 01:48.22 | Amarande | and DKs have plate |
| 01:48.41 | Amarande | and rets well ... c'mon, who plays ret pve anymore |
| 01:48.52 | Xyphoid | i like how you're asserting things about shamans in cata, and you haven't played one since BC |
| 01:49.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (~kvirc@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:49.09 | Amarande | yay, ret! you've got a class where you can be either tank or healer and thus enjoy super short queues ... and you decide to play it DPS and sit in the queue for 10-20 minutes per heroic! heh |
| 01:49.37 | Amarande | given that 10-20 minutes these days can be THE ENTIRE DUNGEON for some of the shorter heroics? :) |
| 01:50.06 | Amarande | yeah, I really don't understand people who play ret in pve now. :) |
| 01:50.08 | Corrodias | oh my, 10-20, that is nothing for waiting |
| 01:50.17 | Amarande | Corrodias: tell me about it, there was the queue for reg HoR last night |
| 01:50.23 | Corrodias | back before wrath, anyway |
| 01:50.24 | Amarande | it was 40 minutes for my warlock, and apparently the *TANK* was waiting 90 minutes |
| 01:50.26 | Amarande | the TANK! |
| 01:50.30 | Amarande | usually tanks get instant queue! |
| 01:50.34 | Xyphoid | am i being trolled here |
| 01:50.36 | Xyphoid | i must be |
| 01:50.53 | Corrodias | i generally went with guildmates, but pugs could take days. |
| 01:50.58 | Corrodias | in BC. |
| 01:51.01 | Amarande | Xyphoid: shamans still don't have an aggro drop in enhance spec, do they? |
| 01:51.18 | Amarande | (and no, I don't consider 'die and rez yourself' an aggro drop. :P) |
| 01:51.39 | SqueeG | die and self rez works AWESOME |
| 01:52.04 | Amarande | unless they have, or are getting, an aggro drop, if threat's as tight in cata as everyone says, enh is going to be living on the razor's edge just like they did in BC |
| 01:52.18 | SqueeG | there are people that will play ANY spec |
| 01:52.19 | Amarande | and god knows half of shaman talk in BC was enh's complaining about being threatcapped constantly :) |
| 01:52.21 | SqueeG | and make it viable |
| 01:52.42 | Amarande | Ehh. |
| 01:52.43 | Xyphoid | just get a threat meter |
| 01:52.56 | Amarande | We'll know if Cata threat's screwed up if it's normally the case in most heroics that the tank is lowest on the threat meter. :) |
| 01:53.20 | Xyphoid | you *are* allowed to stop attacking if you're at 105% |
| 01:53.43 | Wobin | pft, shamans had one of the best aggro dumps available |
| 01:53.46 | Wobin | 'ankh' |
| 01:53.53 | SqueeG | OVER 9000! |
| 01:53.57 | SqueeG | ...sorry, impulse >.> |
| 01:54.06 | Amarande | Xyph: actually, oddly enough in that regard, despite my feeling *good* about the spec now, particularly with the fact that CC and single target damage is going back to being the norm on trash again, I may actually be screwing myself over with one of my favorite specs, come to think of it |
| 01:54.08 | Amarande | Aff lock. |
| 01:54.15 | Amarande | You can't turn off your dots if you're at 105%. :) |
| 01:54.56 | Amarande | and god knows I've been screwed over by aggro with dots plenty of times in BC |
| 01:55.00 | Amarande | Shadow Labs. Oh god Shadow Labs. |
| 01:55.14 | Amarande | Shattered Halls was pretty ... 'fun' in that regard too |
| 01:55.21 | Corrodias | it was just |
| 01:55.22 | Corrodias | LAB |
| 01:55.33 | Amarande | Corrodias: everyone LFG'ing always called it labs |
| 01:55.37 | Corrodias | i know :) |
| 01:55.49 | Amarande | but yeah, SL and SH were hell for affliction locks |
| 01:55.54 | Amarande | mainly because a boss in each had an aggro drop |
| 01:55.59 | Corrodias | i enjoyed them enough as a druid. auchenai crypt is the one we never did unless we had to. |
| 01:56.05 | Amarande | and aggro drops ALWAYS guarantee that aff locks WILL get aggro |
| 01:56.08 | Corrodias | sucks 2 be u |
| 01:56.45 | Xyphoid | having dots up on blackheart was amazing though |
| 01:56.55 | Amarande | Xyphoid: yes, it was |
| 01:57.01 | Amarande | you got to pull aggro after every MC, and die! |
| 01:57.20 | Amarande | especially since Murphy's Law always guaranteed the tank would have wandered too far away during MC to pick him up before he gibbed you :) |
| 01:57.33 | Arrowmaster | blackheart was easy |
| 01:57.35 | Xyphoid | but you did 3 times the damage of anyone else by keeping damage up during MC |
| 01:57.39 | Arrowmaster | especially because of the curse bug |
| 01:57.41 | Xyphoid | so who cares if you die |
| 02:00.00 | Arrowmaster | 2 hours to Reach! |
| 02:00.19 | Arrowmaster | 10:00:00pm <Arrowmaster> 2 hours to Reach! |
| 02:00.20 | Arrowmaster | lol |
| 02:00.20 | Wobin | haha, I went and ran H-SH as an 80 |
| 02:00.27 | Amarande | so with 4.0, will we actually get to see exactly what the gear requirement for HHoR is |
| 02:00.33 | Wobin | I just picked up every single mob and trained half the instance |
| 02:00.39 | Wobin | so much fun |
| 02:00.40 | Amarande | instead of just 'you must obtain better gear' despite having what always seems like really good gear? |
| 02:00.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~valwws@CPE002129d9fabf-CM0014e88eec26.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:01.04 | Amarande | (Let's put it this way ... my DK completed her T9 ... and STILL couldn't queue HHoR for quite a while after that.) |
| 02:04.05 | *** part/#wowuidev cralor (~cralor@c-75-68-70-97.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 02:04.07 | Xyphoid | it's roughly average ilvl 200 (weapons/offhand/ranged don't count) |
| 02:04.25 | Xyphoid | 150 for standard heroics |
| 02:04.56 | Amarande | Xyphoid: EG is reporting average ilvl 211 (and it appears that EG and Blizzard agree, since the character UI on PTR shows average ilvl and for the DK, it shows 251, which is the same as EG shows on live) |
| 02:05.02 | Amarande | and I still can't queue HHoR |
| 02:05.11 | Amarande | (speaking of my warlock here) |
| 02:05.24 | Amarande | does it by any chance consider lowest item as well as average? |
| 02:05.41 | alestane | I *think* it factors in spread to some extent, yes. |
| 02:06.10 | Amarande | It looks like it won't let you in HHoR with any 187 at all, even if you have 200+ epics and several 232/245 pieces otherwise |
| 02:06.48 | Amarande | I know Vladoka had mostly 219/232 with a couple 245, and a SINGLE 187 piece, and STILL couldn't queue HHoR until I did enough reg PoS to replace ... the damn belt, I think it was |
| 02:07.56 | Kraps | lfg put me in a hhor the first time i used it on the ptr and guess what! i still suck at picking up mobs that are separate |
| 02:08.08 | Xyphoid | well, if you're got a character who's right on the edge of HHOR, keep notes |
| 02:08.26 | Xyphoid | you can test if a particular upgrade bumped you over by vendoring and buying back things |
| 02:08.27 | Kraps | or i was taking too much damage like the healer said |
| 02:09.36 | Kraps | this is why i like healing a bit more, its easier to tell if i screwed up or someone else did |
| 02:10.25 | Kraps | healing is the most self-reliant role in a group |
| 02:11.35 | Xyphoid | i really enjoy shaman healing because you get to do a lot apart from healing, if that makes sense |
| 02:11.53 | Xyphoid | shocking/purging/totem adjustments save you a lot of damage preemptively |
| 02:12.00 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 02:12.15 | Amarande | Kraps: does the PTR tell you the minimum ilvls yet for heroics/ICC5/HToC5/HFoS/HPoS/HHoR? |
| 02:12.35 | Amarande | I've heard one of the 4.0 things was they were going to have it actually say "you have X, need Y" instead of just "you must obtain better gear" |
| 02:13.13 | Kraps | Amarande: idk, both my 80s are geared to enter icc, at least on live |
| 02:14.58 | Kraps | i guess i could test it |
| 02:15.30 | Xyphoid | vendor your pants |
| 02:16.18 | Kraps | you have to vendor it? |
| 02:16.45 | Xyphoid | bank stuff still counts |
| 02:16.51 | Xyphoid | or backpacks |
| 02:17.04 | Xyphoid | or it did when I was testing in early 3.3 anyway |
| 02:17.42 | Xyphoid | (i guess you can strip naked and test first, to check that's still the same, heh) |
| 02:22.11 | Amarande | so these new guild achievements in cata |
| 02:22.23 | Amarande | are they going to attach to the guild itself or to the individual members as achievements? |
| 02:22.46 | Amarande | (and will any of the raid mount achievements etc. start requiring you to have the guild rather than simply the individual achievement?) |
| 02:22.57 | Ressy | Guild Achievements are guild achievements. |
| 02:23.09 | Ressy | leave the guild, lose the guild achievement |
| 02:23.36 | Ressy | and they possibly lose the achievement if you contributed to it. |
| 02:23.47 | Ressy | Unless they've fixed that. |
| 02:29.09 | Amarande | Yeah, I'm wondering if raid mounts are still going to be tied mainly to the individual achievements or gained primarily through the guild ones instead |
| 02:32.08 | Ressy | looks like guild. |
| 02:32.22 | Ressy | but everyone can contribute to the guild achievements.. |
| 02:32.29 | Ressy | So it could be faster to get what you want. |
| 02:32.52 | A-KO | isn't the plan that guild-obtained stuff gets lost when you leave the guild? |
| 02:32.57 | Ressy | yeah |
| 02:32.58 | A-KO | or have they changed that |
| 02:33.03 | A-KO | knowing blizzard, they've changed that already |
| 02:33.04 | A-KO | lol |
| 02:33.21 | Ressy | I don't think the BoA stuff is removed if you leave guild. |
| 02:33.54 | Kraps | Xyphoid: idk man, i sold all sellable gear and i can still queue for hhor |
| 02:34.06 | Xyphoid | do you have stuff in your bank |
| 02:34.14 | Xyphoid | like other spec gear |
| 02:35.40 | Kraps | no |
| 02:35.47 | Xyphoid | interesting |
| 02:36.02 | Xyphoid | i was able to vendor stuff and lose the ability to queue a while back |
| 02:36.12 | Kraps | this is on the ptr |
| 02:36.33 | Amarande | Ressy: lemme guess |
| 02:36.42 | Amarande | Blizzard caved in to all the "HE GOT CARRIED FOR HIS VANQUISHER" whining? |
| 02:37.10 | Ressy | *shrug* I don't pay attention to pvp crap. |
| 02:37.19 | Amarande | and is trying to move prestige in general towards a guild tag rather than individual skill? |
| 02:37.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:37.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 02:38.23 | Amarande | towards a new paradigm where friendly guilds are for 1-84, once you hit 85 you're supposed to start acting like WoW is a job and look for interviews with serious-business guilds rather than just run with them as a non-member? :P |
| 02:39.01 | Ressy | Its just going to promote larger guilds. |
| 02:39.27 | Ressy | If you want the guild achievement stuff. |
| 02:39.50 | Wobin | guilds are srsbsnss |
| 02:40.58 | Ressy | Well, with the whole raid issue, ppl were saying it'd promote smaller guilds. |
| 02:41.10 | Ressy | but smaller guilds will have more difficulties getting all the achievements. |
| 02:41.30 | Kraps | http://jezebel.com/5637045/oprah-gives-audience-a-trip-to-australia-causes-total-meltdown |
| 02:42.09 | Iriel | But do small guilds benefit as much from the high end achivements? |
| 02:43.14 | Amarande | So basically Blizzard WANTS servers to be dominated mainly by a few huge guilds each? |
| 02:44.58 | Ressy | If they did, they'd rewrite the Guild UI to be more than 500 members. |
| 02:45.08 | Iriel | Did they not? |
| 02:45.20 | Iriel | (That's a legit question, I know they know of the 500 problem) |
| 02:45.32 | Iriel | (I dont know if they're fixing it for cata) |
| 02:45.34 | Ressy | Iunno.. We're experiencing issues with select users being in guild limbo still |
| 02:45.41 | Arrowmaster | oh god wtf is this, a musical BtVS episode |
| 02:46.00 | Ressy | apparently however you can ticket, and be brought out of guild limbo.. so who knows. |
| 02:46.33 | Iriel | I know there are some guild rank problems right now |
| 02:47.06 | Ressy | some users aren't showing in the guild pane at all, aren't getting perks, and can't gquit |
| 02:47.41 | Ressy | But Beta Max Alliance shows /500 |
| 02:47.46 | Wobin | Arrowmaster: Welcome to Once More With Feeling =) |
| 02:47.46 | Ressy | so I doubt they fixed it. |
| 02:47.56 | Wobin | the Best episiode in Season 6 =) |
| 02:48.01 | Ressy | I love that one. :) |
| 02:48.11 | Ressy | I have 2 of the songs downloaded. >.> |
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| 02:48.32 | Wobin | Arrowmaster: after you watch that, go watch Dr Horrible's Sing Along Blog |
| 02:48.32 | Arrowmaster | Wobin: well im going to watch this episode then go pickup Reach |
| 02:48.51 | Arrowmaster | ive got Dr Horrible on dvd |
| 02:48.59 | Wobin | \o/ |
| 02:49.09 | Wobin | 8bit Dr Horrible is pretty awesome too |
| 02:49.19 | Shirik | 8 bit? |
| 02:49.29 | Wobin | http://www.doctoroctoroc.com/8-bit-dr-horrible/ |
| 02:49.36 | Arrowmaster | haha fucking bunnies |
| 02:50.24 | Wobin | before watching OMWF, you forget that the Steward-Head family is known for their singing =P |
| 02:51.18 | Arrowmaster | oh no i remember giles singing in previous episodes |
| 02:51.44 | Amarande | I wonder why they're trying to make features that seem like they're designed to punish people for being in friendly or smaller guilds |
| 02:51.56 | Amarande | (whether said design is intentional or not, it's clear they do so) |
| 02:51.59 | Wobin | Amarande: probably, cause they hate you. Hate you to pieces |
| 02:52.10 | Wobin | H8 |
| 02:52.22 | Amarande | Did they really have enough complaints about people getting frostbrood by being 'carried' that they felt the need to make it guild based rather than individual? |
| 02:52.45 | Wobin | I got accused of being carried =( |
| 02:52.50 | Wobin | I had the crossbow from lootship |
| 02:52.57 | Wobin | on my blues dps set |
| 02:53.25 | Xyphoid | 'not getting an achievement' is not being punished |
| 02:53.44 | Xyphoid | that attitude leads to madness |
| 02:53.59 | Shirik | Wobin this is awesome |
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| 02:54.31 | Amarande | Xyphoid: currently, you just have to find a regular raid group. |
| 02:54.48 | Amarande | If you're guilded up with your best friends who don't raid, and raid with people from another guild, that's fine and you can get whatever |
| 02:55.03 | Amarande | now people will be forced to leave their best friends behind and actually guild up with their raid groups |
| 02:55.13 | Amarande | which seems kind of out of spirit |
| 02:55.23 | Wobin | or raid with their best friends |
| 02:55.56 | Amarande | Wobin: my best buddies don't raid though, most of them have jobs and kids and such and don't have the time to invest on pleasures the way I do |
| 02:56.13 | Xyphoid | you can still raid with your buddies |
| 02:56.22 | Xyphoid | you just don't get a guild achievement with them |
| 02:56.46 | Amarande | Xyphoid: yeah, but the thing I'm hearing now is that the mounts and such that people want to actually BOTHER with the harder achievements for |
| 02:56.52 | Amarande | won't be available to people with individual achievements |
| 02:56.56 | Amarande | only people who guilded up and got guild ones |
| 02:57.54 | Amarande | and in general, that people will get less unless they treat WoW as a serious matter rather than something for fun |
| 02:58.02 | Amarande | or HAS WoW had a customer decline as a result of the way things changed in WotLK? |
| 02:58.58 | *** join/#wowuidev tem (~tardmrr@74.80.58.143) |
| 02:59.05 | Ressy | Which is another reason to have a big guild - ie a friends rank. |
| 02:59.09 | *** join/#wowuidev tem (~tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
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| 03:05.30 | Wobin | Shirik: isn't it =) |
| 03:17.08 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
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| 03:18.18 | Kraps | http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2010/09/12/2010-09-12_nfl_looking_into_reporter_ines_sainzs_claims_of_sexually_suggestive_comments_mad.html |
| 03:19.09 | Kraps | put a but more clothes on |
| 03:19.14 | Kraps | bit* |
| 03:23.31 | Arrowmaster | the two photos seem to be taken at different times |
| 03:24.38 | Kraps | there are a ton more photos available for your perusal |
| 03:26.04 | Arrowmaster | no there arent |
| 03:26.18 | Arrowmaster | only two because the rest are hidden behind stupid javascript |
| 03:26.26 | Kraps | lol |
| 03:26.32 | Kraps | google? |
| 03:26.41 | Arrowmaster | that doesnt work even when i allow almost all the damn external cdn's the fucking page is using |
| 03:28.04 | Arrowmaster | looking at google there are only two words that come to mind |
| 03:28.22 | Arrowmaster | and i feel i may get yelled at for saying them in here |
| 03:29.53 | Arrowmaster | one of them is 3 letters long but only made up of 2 letters, and the other is 'nice' |
| 03:30.16 | kd3 | lol |
| 03:31.52 | Thunder_Child | ...wth is the force unleashed 30 GB |
| 03:32.01 | mikma | http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/scat.gif |
| 03:32.57 | Arrowmaster | i think im going to go pickup my copy of Reach now, well one of them |
| 03:33.00 | *** join/#wowuidev tem (~tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
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| 03:35.09 | mikma | http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/left_4_ateam.jpg |
| 03:37.55 | Amarande | so is November 2 confirmed now? |
| 03:39.02 | mikma | for what |
| 03:40.34 | Amarande | Cata |
| 03:40.46 | mikma | wobin: http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/left_4_ateam.jpg |
| 03:41.00 | mikma | wobin: whops, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u24NkJsqdE |
| 03:43.29 | mikma | http://dvice.com/uploads/youtubeflowchart_final_big-2.jpg <- win |
| 03:49.32 | kd3 | ho... aq20 is now a 10-player raid |
| 03:50.32 | Kraps | mikma: i like |
| 03:53.46 | bluspacecow | ? oh rly kd3 ? |
| 03:54.09 | kd3 | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=26560501163&sid=2000#19 |
| 03:54.24 | bluspacecow | lolz i just about called you kd2 |
| 03:55.50 | Kraps | heavy |
| 04:00.44 | Yssaril | kd3: so they are making it level 85 or just limiting the number to 10 people |
| 04:00.45 | *** join/#wowuidev ccox (~ccox@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/CCox) |
| 04:00.54 | kd3 | dunno |
| 04:00.59 | kd3 | that's the first post I've seen about it |
| 04:01.37 | kd3 | s/first/only/ |
| 04:02.52 | Kraps | Thunder_Child: The Force Unleashed is a what? |
| 04:03.27 | Thunder_Child | Kraps: game |
| 04:03.34 | Thunder_Child | one of the links from eariler |
| 04:03.34 | kd3 | Yssaril, http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=26560501163&sid=2000&pageNo=2#20 |
| 04:03.37 | kd3 | you'll know when I do |
| 04:03.47 | Kraps | Thunder_Child: genre? |
| 04:03.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Limbero (~Limbero@c83-250-2-110.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 04:03.53 | Yssaril | kd3: hehe thanks |
| 04:03.58 | Thunder_Child | Kraps: 3ps |
| 04:04.03 | Thunder_Child | 3rd person shooter |
| 04:04.04 | Thunder_Child | ish |
| 04:04.07 | Amarande | ok, now I'm starting to think the HHoR requirements are just dumb. |
| 04:04.10 | Amarande | literally. |
| 04:04.23 | Jerub | Amarande: which requirements? |
| 04:04.31 | Jerub | requirements to be allowed in, or requirements to finish it? |
| 04:04.31 | Amarande | I just did H-UP, and sustained average ~3700 DPS, plus 5700+ DPS on one boss in particular |
| 04:04.34 | Corrodias | The Force Unleashed got kind of unenthusiastic reviews, though, so... |
| 04:04.38 | Amarande | and I'm still not good enough to queue for HHoR apparently. :P |
| 04:04.41 | Amarande | Jerub: the requirements to queue |
| 04:04.51 | Jerub | Amarande: can't be. |
| 04:04.59 | Jerub | i often get people in there that aren't geared enough for it. |
| 04:05.10 | Jerub | anyway, my kitty was getting 4k dps in raids at ilvl 200 |
| 04:05.11 | Amarande | Hell. Even my *DK* doesn't usually do 5700+ single target except when she's raiding. |
| 04:05.14 | Amarande | and she's in ICC gear. |
| 04:06.40 | Amarande | On a completely unrelated note, I have to wonder if the NFL actually has the legal right to enforce some of their copyright notice. :) |
| 04:06.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~chatzilla@99-92-174-69.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:06.49 | Amarande | Specifically, the bit about "accounts of the game without the NFL's consent" heh |
| 04:07.15 | Amarande | that kinda sounds like they claim their copyright means that they have the authority to prevent people from talking about it without their consent ... I really *don't* think copyright goes that far ... |
| 04:07.24 | Jamash | no, it doesn't |
| 04:07.27 | Amarande | That'd be like Blizzard claiming you can't talk about how you downed the Lich King without their consent :) |
| 04:07.28 | |Jelly| | Question: 4 seconds left in the half, your pass is botched, what do you do? |
| 04:07.45 | Jamash | change channels |
| 04:07.55 | Wobin | shoot the hostage |
| 04:08.06 | Xyphoid | foul |
| 04:08.28 | |Jelly| | Apparently the correct answer is lateral. *shrug* |
| 04:08.50 | Jamash | I'm trying to get the UI code out of the PTR client but MPQEdit is choking, I think because some of the blizzard AddOns haven't been downloaded |
| 04:09.01 | Jamash | Can I force all the Blizzard AddOns to load from inside the game? |
| 04:13.49 | bluspacecow | are you using the beta version of MPQ editor ? |
| 04:13.53 | Jamash | yeah |
| 04:15.24 | bluspacecow | theres a wowinterface thread about which order to load the MPQ files in ... have you looked at that ? |
| 04:15.58 | bluspacecow | problem is Jamash the blizzard folders in the addons folder .... some of them are just hooks to internal code ... |
| 04:16.12 | Jamash | so? |
| 04:16.20 | Jamash | I just want to make sure the xml and lua files are downloaded |
| 04:17.25 | Jamash | so I'm going through and doing /run LoadAddOn("Blizzard_Whatever") for each one |
| 04:17.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Cidan (~Cidan@conspiracy/developer/Cidan) |
| 04:18.46 | bluspacecow | not sure if this helps but http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34469&goto=newpost |
| 04:19.08 | Jamash | yeah that's what I'm using |
| 04:19.11 | Arrowmaster | guess what ive got |
| 04:19.15 | Jamash | cancer? |
| 04:20.00 | Arrowmaster | a copy of halo reach i have no intention of opening |
| 04:20.28 | Jamash | oh |
| 04:20.56 | Arrowmaster | unless somebody else got the legendary edition and can tell me if it has a standard copy of the game in its packaging or not |
| 04:21.40 | Arrowmaster | i just like preordering games from gamestop for their retailer exclusive bonuses and then returning the games unopened after redeeming my bonus |
| 04:21.48 | Kraps | facepalms at Jamash |
| 04:23.07 | Jamash | ? |
| 04:23.46 | Jamash | hmm, I could create a dummy addon that depends on all of them, actually |
| 04:26.24 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@pool-72-86-110-88.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 04:27.07 | Thunder_Child | major fail Arrowmaster |
| 04:27.45 | Kraps | "Now I know how Lancelot felt when Arthur caressed his wife's genetailia!" |
| 04:28.32 | Thunder_Child | Arrowmaster: it has what the Limited Edition has |
| 04:30.14 | Arrowmaster | and i can not find my preorder from bestbuy, oh well they have it in their system |
| 04:30.38 | Arrowmaster | all i have to do is flash the reward zone silver select card and theyll look it up |
| 04:32.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Heather (~pirate@75-174-86-144.bois.qwest.net) |
| 04:33.59 | kd3 | anyone on on lost isles alliance that I can bug for a group invite for a sec? |
| 04:48.32 | Arrowmaster | now after watching BtVS Once More With Feeling I want to watch Repo! The Genetic Opera again just to hear Anthony Stewart Head singing |
| 04:48.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~Cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
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| 04:59.14 | Kraps | http://notalwaysright.com/grandma-vs-the-internet/7018 |
| 04:59.57 | Wobin | d'aww =) |
| 05:04.29 | Kraps | http://notalwaysright.com/stupidity-that-makes-you-go-wow/6967 |
| 05:09.51 | Yssaril | http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/14/hdcp-master-key-supposedly-released-unlocks-hdtv-copy-protect/ |
| 05:10.55 | Amarande | Yssaril: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. |
| 05:11.01 | Amarande | that is very much NOT A GOOD THING. |
| 05:11.29 | Amarande | that is probably one of the worst pieces of news a geek could ever hear, in fact. |
| 05:11.41 | Dagmar | How is that a bad thing? It's almost obsolete anyway |
| 05:11.53 | Amarande | Dagmar: remember one of the safeguards of HDCP, if I recall, is the ability to disable keys etc. |
| 05:11.57 | Amarande | if the master key is compromised |
| 05:12.02 | Dagmar | The HDFury does a fine job of bypassing the lot |
| 05:12.15 | Amarande | then every bloody device that handles HD content is going to get told "all the current keys are compromised" since that's the master key that was |
| 05:12.17 | Yssaril | Amarande: the master key allowes you to generate valid new keys |
| 05:12.29 | Amarande | which means basically every damn device is going to have to be updated or replaced by security policy, no? |
| 05:12.38 | Yssaril | as such if they bann a new key you can just make a new one |
| 05:12.53 | Dagmar | Since all the thing does is enforce monopolies, who cares if it's broken |
| 05:12.57 | Amarande | Yssaril: I'm more concerned that a breach like this might cause ALL the extant keys to be banned, requiring full device replacements |
| 05:13.07 | Dagmar | Amarande: LOL that's just not going to happen |
| 05:13.10 | Amarande | Got an HD cable box? They'll probably send down a disable now and you'll have to buy a new TV. |
| 05:13.26 | Dagmar | The lawsuits would make a sound that would keep you awake at night |
| 05:13.27 | Amarande | since the old one will be considered "using potentially compromised codes" no? |
| 05:13.45 | Yssaril | Amarande: HDCP is not updatable almost none of the old devices are firmwhere upgradable |
| 05:14.29 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-226-118-247.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 05:14.38 | Dagmar | They made an attempt at grabbing a monopoly via hardware measures. They failed. |
| 05:14.47 | *** join/#wowuidev BigRedBrent (~Brent@pool-72-86-75-100.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 05:15.01 | *** part/#wowuidev BigRedBrent (~Brent@pool-72-86-75-100.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 05:15.15 | Kraps | Hello Ertis, We at TankSpot would like to wish you a happy birthday today! |
| 05:15.20 | Kraps | hahahahaha |
| 05:15.25 | Amarande | Yssaril: which means that a breach means that every TV and video card currently out could be disabled for security reasons and have to be completely replaced, right? |
| 05:15.33 | Yssaril | read through http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/felten/hdmi-and-output-control and his 2 later posts |
| 05:15.36 | Amarande | at least as far as their ability to do HD content? |
| 05:16.00 | Dagmar | Amarande: What part of "I SPENT $2500 ON THIS TV AND YOU'RE TELLING ME IT WON'T DO HD NOW *WHY* EXACTLY?" are you missing |
| 05:16.00 | Kraps | it is indeed me birthday |
| 05:16.01 | Amarande | Means I'd have to spend 500+ on a bleeding edge nVidia card and another 500+ on a new flatscreen if worse came to worst? |
| 05:16.07 | Dagmar | People will *sue* |
| 05:16.08 | Yssaril | Amarande: it would mean that they have to replace HDCP entirely as such HDMI would also need to be replaced |
| 05:16.22 | Yssaril | not happening anytime soon |
| 05:16.30 | Dagmar | YOu don't need a bleeding edge nVidia card for that |
| 05:16.32 | Wobin | haha people won't sue. |
| 05:16.36 | Wobin | They'll fucking AVALANCHE |
| 05:16.39 | Amarande | Dagmar: I was more thinking if they did a mass disable |
| 05:16.41 | Dagmar | Hell, half the $100 cards have HDMI output |
| 05:16.49 | Dagmar | Wobin++ |
| 05:16.50 | Corrodias | there would be riots |
| 05:16.51 | Amarande | only the bleeding edge stuff would have new enough codes in it to escape the storm |
| 05:16.53 | Corrodias | :D |
| 05:16.56 | Shadowed | uh |
| 05:17.01 | Shadowed | Do you really think they will mass disable? |
| 05:17.06 | Yssaril | its lik when DVD's got decssed nothing they can do about it exept to release a new standard |
| 05:17.10 | Dagmar | The FCC would be looking to hire paid assassins |
| 05:17.12 | Shadowed | That would be what's called "Shooting yourself in the foot" |
| 05:17.26 | Dagmar | That's exactly the reason they mandated all those devices have component output in the first place |
| 05:17.27 | Wobin | or "Kneecapping Oneself With One's Own Teeth" |
| 05:17.32 | Amarande | Shadowed: not right away, I'd imagine |
| 05:17.33 | Amarande | but |
| 05:17.33 | Corrodias | ON A LIGHTER NOTE: http://neuropod.net/imagehost/uploads/23f383262264ef8c25a189d53b9fd085.jpg |
| 05:17.40 | Amarande | the moment a new standard gets settled on? |
| 05:17.48 | Amarande | probably in a heartbeat as soon as devices hit the market for that standard |
| 05:17.52 | Shadowed | no... |
| 05:17.58 | Corrodias | Amarande, don't be a pussy, they can't kill everybody's old devices. they didn't do it with DVD, they're not doing it with HDCP. |
| 05:18.18 | Shadowed | People don't upgrade technology as soon as newer/better ones come out, especially if the definition of better is nil |
| 05:18.20 | Amarande | Corrodias: they did it with analog broadcast, a MUCH more entrenched standard ;) |
| 05:18.32 | Amarande | by legal fiat and copyright was indeed cited as a reason |
| 05:18.35 | Corrodias | analog got engrypted? |
| 05:18.37 | *** join/#wowuidev jacobeiting (~jacobeiti@c-76-102-149-158.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:18.41 | Amarande | no |
| 05:18.42 | Shadowed | at least the difference between say, DVD and blu-ray etc was pretty obvious |
| 05:18.42 | Amarande | in the US |
| 05:18.48 | Dagmar | Amarande: Umm... 1. What they were upgrading to gave significant benefits. 2. It was supposed to happen originally in freaking 2001. |
| 05:18.49 | Amarande | they just *ordered analog broadcast TV to stop* |
| 05:18.51 | Shadowed | But you're absolutely insane if you think they are going to disable |
| 05:19.03 | Shadowed | No, they gave warnings on it for a longass time |
| 05:19.22 | Amarande | Shadowed: still, wasn't one of the reasons they did it to appease the concerns of Hollywood about copyright? |
| 05:19.25 | Dagmar | Hell they gave warnings in 2002. Companies wailed "WE'RE NOT READY YET OMG!" and it was postponed again and again |
| 05:19.31 | Amarande | otherwise, they could have just allowed channels to broadcast both as long as they were willing |
| 05:19.31 | Yssaril | Amarande: that wasn't for DRM reasons it was for sanitys sake imo analog TV died in the rest of the modern world a while ago |
| 05:19.35 | Amarande | but they gave a legal order to disable it |
| 05:19.35 | kd3 | and we subsidized how much money into those stupid set-top-boxes? |
| 05:19.43 | Shadowed | look |
| 05:20.01 | Dagmar | Amarand: ATSC is just plain _better_ |
| 05:20.06 | Shadowed | You don't disable perfectly functioning systems, regardless of what encryption or DRM setup was broken, you simply do not do it |
| 05:20.07 | kd3 | ^ |
| 05:20.14 | Shadowed | you will very quickly have people saying they can't get it to work |
| 05:20.16 | Shadowed | then everyone hears that |
| 05:20.21 | Amarande | Dagmar: yes, but was there really a need for a government ordered sunset on NTSC? |
| 05:20.22 | Shadowed | then some lawyer sees $$$$$$ and he starts a class action |
| 05:20.30 | Amarande | they could have just had dual broadcast until the channels saw no more need to do so |
| 05:20.31 | Dagmar | Amarande: Actually, yes. |
| 05:20.31 | Shadowed | and then it pretty much spirals out of control from that |
| 05:20.37 | kd3 | Amarande, sure. we can use that spectrum for better stuff now |
| 05:21.02 | Yssaril | Amarande: they could have done dual braodcast exept none of the broadcasters did :P |
| 05:21.07 | Dagmar | Amarande: Even with ATSC being significantly better, there was that massive entrenched base of hardware that broadcasters just didn't want to (and almost couldn't) walk away from |
| 05:21.24 | Dagmar | Actually *many* broadcasters were doing both for the last three years |
| 05:21.47 | Amarande | Dagmar: which means they could have just let it go on until ATSC was just too entrenched on the consumer end for there to be a real need for NTSC anymore |
| 05:22.02 | Amarande | read: probably once the only people left with NTSC were old grannies (and we know the 60+ market isn't really considered an important one by TV stations) |
| 05:22.10 | Dagmar | Amarande: Not likely, man. |
| 05:22.26 | Dagmar | People expect their TVs to last a really long time, we're talking a decade or more |
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| 05:22.34 | Dagmar | By and large, the damn things *do* last that long |
| 05:22.38 | Amarande | Dagmar: true |
| 05:22.40 | Amarande | on the other hand though |
| 05:22.46 | kd3 | meh, no. mass retailers were still selling ntsc-only tvs for how long into the 2000s? |
| 05:22.48 | Amarande | all the flat panels pretty much had ATSC from the get go |
| 05:22.49 | Dagmar | It's not unreasonable to expect them to last that long |
| 05:23.20 | Dagmar | ...but the manufacturers were going to keep shipping NTSC-only devices because just putting ATSC tuner circuitry meant a cost they didn't want to accept |
| 05:23.31 | Amarande | so the flat panel transition would have meant that most people in younger markets would have *had* ATSC anyway by dint of converting to flat panels. |
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| 05:23.37 | Dagmar | Not all the flat panels |
| 05:23.50 | Dagmar | Honestly I dont' even know where you come up with ideas like that |
| 05:24.04 | Amarande | Dagmar: point me to a flat panel TV without ATSC? :) |
| 05:24.19 | Dagmar | Amarande: Do I have to? I fucking just got rid of one because I broke it |
| 05:24.28 | Arrowmaster | i think it was 06 or 07 that by law all tvs sold in the US had to have ATSC tuners |
| 05:24.48 | Dagmar | What, um, two years ago... Wal-mart... Half of their shit still didn't do ATSC, and I'm talking about flat panels |
| 05:25.22 | Amarande | heh, walmart |
| 05:25.32 | Dagmar | That got nerfed to that the TV had to have an explicit warning on the box if it didn't do ATSC |
| 05:25.42 | kd3 | which is where the masses get their boob tubes... don't over-look it |
| 05:25.44 | Amarande | walmart kinda sucks anyway. :) |
| 05:25.49 | Amarande | I'm trying to think of the last time I shopped there |
| 05:25.55 | Arrowmaster | walmart is the devil |
| 05:26.03 | Amarande | probably when I got wotlk because I didn't want to go through the teenage crowds of gamestop |
| 05:26.13 | Amarande | which I don't have to worry about with cata since I preordered the CE |
| 05:26.26 | Arrowmaster | a few months ago i finally walked into the super walmart they built here years ago |
| 05:26.37 | Corrodias | i just bought a bunch of food from wal-mart. love the place. |
| 05:26.40 | Amarande | I think I picked up a shower head there, too |
| 05:26.49 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: The evil is that they have everything, usually in quantity, AND they're open at 2am |
| 05:26.57 | Arrowmaster | they dont have everything |
| 05:27.00 | Corrodias | i don't get down there often because it's fucking 20 miles away |
| 05:27.16 | Dagmar | Corrodias: You're actually lukcy |
| 05:27.19 | Arrowmaster | afaik they still wont stock any CDs with explict lyrics AT ALL |
| 05:27.34 | Dagmar | Uh they've never carried anything I'd buy anyway |
| 05:27.38 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: Oh yeah ... music companies have to make special censored versions for Walmart |
| 05:27.44 | Amarande | censored versions which are universally hated by all fans |
| 05:27.56 | Amarande | especially when they infect the fileshares |
| 05:28.01 | Corrodias | egh. i wouldn't buy anything artistic from them, though. |
| 05:28.16 | Corrodias | for games, music, that stuff i stay far away from dept stores these days. |
| 05:28.28 | Amarande | and yes, I do believe 'infect' is the proper term when one's speaking of that sort of thing, even though I don't p2p any music. :P |
| 05:28.50 | Amarande | it's just like how back in the days of old napster, someone would get an incomplete download and then next thing ALL OF BLOODY NAPSTER HAD THE BAD COPY |
| 05:29.23 | Amarande | heh, I'm glad I don't p2p music. :) |
| 05:29.58 | Amarande | Speaking of WotLK, btw, I think Sindragosa is several months out of date with her comment about "The frozen winds of Northrend will consume your souls!" or whatever it is when she's aggroed |
| 05:29.59 | Wobin | oh god, I remember going to a Walmart in Beijing |
| 05:30.03 | Wobin | so. many. floors |
| 05:30.08 | Amarande | um, Sindy. I believe the frozen winds of Northrend consumed our souls LONG before we reached 10/12 in ICC. |
| 05:30.17 | Amarande | in fact, they pretty much did the day we purchased wotlk. :) |
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| 05:32.39 | Torhal_ | Arrowmaster: The whole concept of Wal-Mart only selling censored CDs has always made me shake my head considering the fact that they sell expletitive-laced movies by the droves. |
| 05:34.26 | Amarande | Yeah, you can get Goodfellas at Wal-Mart but you can't get an uncut song with the F word in it. |
| 05:34.27 | Amarande | Fail. |
| 05:34.56 | Amarande | I'm still not sure if Pesci drops the F-bomb more times in Goodfellas or in Casino. |
| 05:34.58 | Amarande | I've seen both. |
| 05:37.40 | nebula | children don't watch goodfellas |
| 05:37.44 | nebula | think of the children! |
| 05:38.51 | Amarande | Will someone PLEASE STOP thinking of the CHILDREN! |
| 05:38.58 | Amarande | heh |
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| 05:58.38 | Amarande | dammit. I'm reaching the point in WoW where there is little else I'm going to be able to achieve in WotLK |
| 05:58.45 | Amarande | and I don't feel like starting another alt. |
| 05:59.04 | Amarande | I'm 11/12 in ICC10, and now not sure at all if I'm going to get kingslayer |
| 06:00.24 | Amarande | I *used* to feel sure I was going to get it, but with Nov 2 looking likely, and 4.0.1 on PTR in any event, I'm not sure now. |
| 06:03.51 | Amarande | mostly because 4.0.1 changes so much and I'm not sure all but the very top end raids are going to be able to adapt to the new trees and paradigm fast enough to really do anything much significant during the last few weeks of LK before we're all back to Azeroth to level to 85 :) |
| 06:04.24 | Amarande | we'll be readjusting to so many basics that actually downing bosses is probably not going to be happening, no? |
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| 06:04.48 | Amarande | Xyphoid: what do you think the chances are that most raids are going to be able to achieve much of anything during the last few weeks before Cata (after 4.0 hits)? |
| 06:05.08 | Amarande | will it be business as usual, or will we have maybe one last week left to try things after we've actually managed to get all the new basics down? |
| 06:06.49 | Amarande | (i.e., how long is it going to take us to figure out all our talent trees so we're back in black for raiding and not gimping ourselves by picking things that are now wrong?) |
| 06:07.06 | Xyphoid | 9 days |
| 06:07.07 | Xyphoid | exactly |
| 06:07.27 | Amarande | 4.0.1 bringing in the new threat mechanics too, I'm presuming |
| 06:07.27 | Yssaril | Xyphoid: 9.45 to exact |
| 06:07.28 | ZorbaTHut | amarande, another question is whether the new talent trees will give us a bit of a power boost |
| 06:07.46 | ZorbaTHut | remember the 3.0.0 talent trees that pretty much trivialized all existing content |
| 06:07.51 | Amarande | Zorba: perhaps, and they might be nerfing the bosses like they did in 3.0 |
| 06:07.57 | Amarande | actually, they probably HAVE to nerf the bosses |
| 06:08.15 | Amarande | remember, with the new threat mechanics, we can't go all out on our DPS like most of the DPS race bosses were designed for in LK, with the obscene tank threat generation |
| 06:08.50 | Amarande | so at the least they'll have to cut boss HP a lot so we can still meet berserk timers (particularly on tighter ones like Sindy and Lana) |
| 06:09.14 | Amarande | maybe not Lana, come to think of it |
| 06:09.19 | Amarande | because that's got that zero threat mechanic for vampires |
| 06:09.28 | Amarande | Sindy, perhaps |
| 06:09.53 | Amarande | I know most Sindy fights seem to get pretty close to the timer, simply because once you're in P2 there is very very little room for non-tank DPS on the dragon herself |
| 06:10.53 | Amarande | And air phase DPS is basically non-existent apart from dots. |
| 06:11.01 | Amarande | so that's quite a lot of time you lose off the timer there, too. |
| 06:11.05 | Xyphoid | you keep on asking these questions where the answer is 'who knows, it will depend on how things are tuned at release' |
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| 06:11.47 | Amarande | I do like no longer having to memorize tight rotations for cata for the most part though. :) |
| 06:12.06 | Amarande | At least if things go as they're said. |
| 06:12.33 | Amarande | Sounds like we're going back to the terms of engagement we fought under in BC, where spamming your best every GCD as DPS has a name, and it's called "suicide" :) |
| 06:13.55 | Amarande | checks the PTR again |
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| 06:21.00 | Amarande | hmm |
| 06:21.12 | Amarande | there is a small furry creature next to me with pointy ears that seems very fascinated by this moth. :) |
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| 06:26.07 | Amarande | yay |
| 06:26.15 | Amarande | Titles and Frostbrood Vanquishers are still in for now |
| 06:26.20 | Amarande | not a repeat of BC. Good. |
| 06:29.12 | Amarande | otoh |
| 06:29.12 | Amarande | ffs |
| 06:29.15 | Amarande | gems on ptr cost 3000g |
| 06:29.35 | Amarande | douchebags. ptr is supposed to help us test stuff, how are we supposed to test stuff when stuff we need to test is either unavailable or fools are pricing it out of reach |
| 06:30.36 | Wobin | because volatile character gold is more valuable rite? |
| 06:31.01 | Amarande | I do like the more character info pane |
| 06:31.29 | Amarande | much better designed than the old one |
| 06:33.56 | cbreak_work | Wobin: it's less valuable, so you need more of it |
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| 06:35.29 | Wobin | http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l5wg1cryxa1qcw66ho1_500.jpg |
| 06:35.59 | Corrodias | Wobin: kisses |
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| 06:49.20 | Fisker | lol ivy bridge is apparently already going to be released in the second half of 2011 |
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| 07:02.18 | zenzio | "Bethesda Softworks parent ZeniMax has filed a trademark registration for Oblivion as a film title, reports GameSpot"... |
| 07:02.46 | Amarande | wow. |
| 07:02.51 | Amarande | 1) tanking doesn't seem to be what it used to be |
| 07:03.02 | Amarande | 2) 4.0 seems pretty fun so far |
| 07:03.02 | zenzio | I hope this never turns into a movie - games don't work as movies, especially games that provide you a lot of freedom |
| 07:03.14 | Amarande | 3) for some odd reason there still DOES seem to be Attack Power on some gear. |
| 07:03.31 | Amarande | the 245 badge trinket still gives 1024 AP when used, and one of my weapons still has a +8 AP socket bonus. |
| 07:03.36 | zenzio | it's beta, I'm guessing not everything has been touched |
| 07:03.44 | zenzio | (yet) |
| 07:03.49 | Amarande | OTOH, SOME trinkets have been updated, since the Needle-Encrusted Scorpion's now giving haste instead of ArPen |
| 07:04.29 | Amarande | Enchants appear to be unchanged, except for ones that gave stats like Defense that are totally gone (I believe the defense-enchanted tanking shoulders I have in bank have Dodge now) |
| 07:07.22 | Amarande | also, the anti-spam feature in trade chat is ridiculously limited |
| 07:07.36 | Amarande | did Blizzard start finding their bandwidth bills to eat too much into profits or something? :P |
| 07:08.34 | Amarande | also: yeah some of this stuff is incomplete |
| 07:08.41 | Amarande | all the badge stuff wants Justice Points and we're still getting badges |
| 07:09.47 | Amarande | and apparently druid relics are saying they're for DKs |
| 07:10.00 | Amarande | are they SURE they're going to be able to get this out the door by nov 2 like seems to be increasingly said? |
| 07:11.08 | Amarande | cool, attempting to mount at all in dalaran disconnected me after about 3 tries |
| 07:11.52 | Amarande | and now it says the world server is down when I tried to reconnect to that character |
| 07:12.07 | Amarande | but the realm is still showing as high pop |
| 07:12.08 | Amarande | joy. |
| 07:12.16 | Amarande | wonder if I just got my character banned temp. |
| 07:15.07 | Amarande | created new character ... stuck on retrieving character list ... yeah, this patch is NOWHERE near ready |
| 07:15.11 | Amarande | I think Nov 2 isn't going to happen :) |
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| 07:16.00 | Amarande | also: how do you get into a raid circuit *earlyish* in an expansion cycle instead of right up at the end like I always seem to? |
| 07:16.56 | Amarande | relogging ... hmm, let's see if I can get on the PTR DK again now |
| 07:17.02 | Amarande | there we go. |
| 07:18.03 | Amarande | also |
| 07:18.08 | Amarande | one thing I've learned from this PTR |
| 07:18.14 | Amarande | oh GOD spend your badges BEFORE 4.0.1 RELEASE HITS |
| 07:18.42 | Amarande | because it looks like we get 1 justice point per badge we had |
| 07:18.51 | Amarande | but all the costs are way up from what a 1:1 ratio would be |
| 07:19.08 | jnwhiteh | ~deprecated |
| 07:19.08 | purl | well, deprecated is a term in computer software that indicates a feature is no longer officially supported even if it still exists and may eventually be removed altogether. Deprecated is often misspelled 'depreciated' which is a financial term. |
| 07:19.20 | Corrodias | wow, are they totally changing all the game mechanics? |
| 07:19.25 | zenzio | if you want to get into a raid cycle early, find a raid guild before Cataclysm goes live |
| 07:19.27 | Amarande | jnwhiteh: yeah, badges are deprecated |
| 07:19.30 | Corrodias | a big shakeup should be fun! |
| 07:19.44 | jnwhiteh | Amarande: I put that explanation in, and was using it to respond to a forum post. =) |
| 07:19.47 | jnwhiteh | ~depreciated |
| 07:19.47 | purl | i guess depreciated is the adjective form of depreciation, a financial concept whereby assets with finite lives lose value over time. Depreciation is often confused for the computer software term 'deprecated'. |
| 07:20.01 | Amarande | but it looks like they're giving justice points for what we had, based on the changes to my DK after I copied her to PTR ... *however*, while we're getting what looks like 1 point per badge, the costs are NOT the same |
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| 07:20.08 | Amarande | like 239 points for a crusader orb |
| 07:20.29 | Amarande | I'm not sure what we're going to be getting from bosses, since that's not implemented yet ... I did H UK and still got triumph badges instead of justice points |
| 07:22.03 | Corrodias | hero labels, triumph badges, justice points, salvation tokens, joy pendants, get out of jail free cards... when will they run out of names? |
| 07:23.04 | zenzio | the next will be bucket o' love |
| 07:23.16 | Xyphoid | pleasure points |
| 07:23.48 | Amarande | Corrodias: joy pendants, that sounds kinky |
| 07:23.54 | Amarande | then again, so does [Lana'thel's Choker of Flagellation] ;) |
| 07:25.14 | Amarande | also, I got a Get Out of Death Free card when I was at Dragon Con :) |
| 07:25.17 | zenzio | http://www.informationweek.com/news/galleries/smb/ebusiness/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=227001126&pgno=9&isPrev= - o_O |
| 07:25.21 | Amarande | although it can apparently only be used twelve times |
| 07:26.52 | Amarande | zenzio: yeah I'm thinking of guilding up with the guys I do ICC with |
| 07:27.00 | Amarande | I'm torn, actually |
| 07:27.06 | Amarande | do I want to stay with my friends guild and just raid with them like I do now |
| 07:27.11 | Amarande | or do I want to guild with them |
| 07:27.17 | Amarande | dammit, blizz. guild achievements = fail. |
| 07:27.26 | Amarande | we never had to make choices like this before. |
| 07:27.39 | Xyphoid | do you care more about achievements or your friends? |
| 07:27.50 | Amarande | that would be my friends :) |
| 07:28.26 | Amarande | but I'd love to actually get one of the raid mounts this time, and fear that the new equivalent to the frostbrood vanquishers or such may only be available through guild achievements in order to appease QQers who whine about people being carried |
| 07:28.42 | Amarande | gods, I would have loved to get a vanquisher, too |
| 07:28.55 | Amarande | one of the few wotlk mounts I actually like the look of |
| 07:29.08 | Amarande | that and the drakes (not the proto drakes) |
| 07:29.18 | Amarande | proto drakes look all droopy and such :( |
| 07:29.26 | Amarande | think my favorite's still the netherwing drakes though |
| 07:30.04 | Amarande | I guess we won't see how it's actually set up till cata releases and arrives at my doorstep though |
| 07:31.10 | Amarande | but I do think the whole guild achievement emphasis is a mistake |
| 07:31.47 | Amarande | WotLK was a huge success ... why are they apparently trying to backpedal into BC-ish paradigms? |
| 07:32.12 | zenzio | depends who you ask |
| 07:32.20 | zenzio | I welcome going back to BCish paradigms |
| 07:32.32 | Amarande | zenzio: I haven't heard EJ or Ensidia whine about WotLK sucking, and they're about as hardcore as they get |
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| 07:32.42 | zenzio | I don't give a shit abotu EJ or Ensidia |
| 07:32.54 | Amarande | zenzio: well |
| 07:33.09 | Amarande | the main thing that people badmouth about WotLK is claiming it was too easy and didn't give enough for the hardcore players |
| 07:33.12 | Corrodias | i had fun in BC |
| 07:33.17 | Amarande | but if that was the case, wouldn't Ensidia or EJ have got pissed off? |
| 07:33.29 | Amarande | Or Fusion, which is still going strong, despite the fact that Might seem to have eclipsed them, damn Alliance :( |
| 07:33.36 | zenzio | Amarande: possibly, but there's no guarantee they would |
| 07:33.44 | zenzio | people see things differently, same as always |
| 07:33.51 | Amarande | Corrodias: I think I would have had more fun in BC if I'd had more opportunities |
| 07:34.06 | Amarande | unfortunately, I didn't hit 70 until a couple of months before Sunwell, and on a DPS caster |
| 07:34.09 | zenzio | "hard" is very vague - it could be a dozen different things causing the "hardness" |
| 07:34.18 | Corrodias | hardly the expansion's fault |
| 07:34.31 | Amarande | Corrodias: well, we COULD have used the dungeon finder an expansion earlier, at least :) |
| 07:34.45 | Corrodias | no argument there, whatever that is |
| 07:34.52 | zenzio | now I didn't find WotLK raids *bad* - I just didn't find them as fun as the BC ones; and since more people could handle them, I felt less good than I did in BC |
| 07:35.08 | Amarande | I found the WotLK raids more fun than BC |
| 07:35.31 | Amarande | but that could have been because the only BC raids I've EVER gotten to see are Kara and BT, and I didn't go to BT until late in WotLK with ICC gear |
| 07:35.31 | zenzio | I raid in MMOs to feel better than others, since my everyday feelings are the contrary |
| 07:35.38 | Corrodias | netherspite was a blast |
| 07:35.41 | Amarande | god |
| 07:35.45 | Amarande | I hated netherspite with a passion |
| 07:35.57 | Corrodias | :< |
| 07:36.09 | Jerub | i'm still waiting for a response on my ticket about the ninja in the pug raid the other night |
| 07:36.09 | Amarande | I file netherspite under the same aegis of hatred as I do Sindragosa |
| 07:36.22 | Amarande | you know, come to think of it |
| 07:36.27 | Amarande | I'm starting to think I just plain hate raid dragons in general |
| 07:36.42 | Jerub | sindy isn't that bad. |
| 07:36.46 | Amarande | except for marrowgar and maybe sarth |
| 07:36.51 | Corrodias | both he and the black dragon at the end of kara were both great fights |
| 07:36.56 | Jerub | have a raid that can derp behind an iceblock and it's easy |
| 07:37.10 | Jerub | marrowgar isn't a dragon is he? |
| 07:37.20 | Amarande | Jerub: I *think* he's a skeleton dragon, isn't he? |
| 07:37.23 | Corrodias | lord demonshit melchazzar or whatever his name was, with the meteors... that was not a fun fight. |
| 07:37.42 | Amarande | honestly, my favorite raid battle ever is a WotLK raid, too |
| 07:37.53 | Amarande | Blood Princes |
| 07:38.19 | zenzio | Corrodias: Nightbane was fun, in part because the area was so cramped |
| 07:38.34 | Amarande | I think the thing I hate about dragon fights is they tend to have an emphasis on precise choreography in so many parts |
| 07:38.38 | Amarande | and I'm NOT so good with that |
| 07:38.39 | Corrodias | that's his name. i got some damn good dps on him. |
| 07:38.48 | Amarande | it's not movement battles itself that I'm bad with |
| 07:38.57 | Amarande | hell, like I said, favorite battle ever, blood princes, it's practically constant moving ... |
| 07:39.07 | Jerub | i think BQ is probably my favourite |
| 07:39.10 | Amarande | but that's more situational awareness and reaction |
| 07:39.15 | Jerub | only done it once tho |
| 07:39.21 | Amarande | sindy is choreography, and it grates on me heavily |
| 07:39.25 | Jerub | the frost giant weekly quest is pretty good |
| 07:39.41 | Corrodias | i do regret that i haven't been able to fight all the raid bosses in WoW |
| 07:40.04 | Amarande | honestly? there's times I look at battles these days and sometimes wonder if my days as an electronic RPG gamer are soon to be over |
| 07:40.12 | Amarande | other than finishing out my pile of old console games |
| 07:40.12 | Jerub | i'm glad i did RS the one time, no pressure to do it again |
| 07:40.19 | Corrodias | but i can't devote years of my life to what boils down to farming so i can have a Shadow of the Colossus experience |
| 07:40.21 | Amarande | Jerub: I'm not a big fan of Halion either actually :| |
| 07:40.39 | Amarande | the whole twilight cutter thing reminds me far too much of the final battle in Crash Warped :P |
| 07:40.59 | Amarande | and there's a reason I haven't gotten far in any crash bandicoot game |
| 07:41.03 | Amarande | I'm BAD at crash bandicoot games. |
| 07:41.28 | Corrodias | WoW changed my perspectives on farming, but in no way have i quit playing rpgs. well, i haven't played one in a long time because there just are so few good ones, but i have a few on my list. |
| 07:41.56 | Amarande | Corrodias: it's mostly the ever increasing action emphasis (for which I mostly blame id and Valve for getting the all-important younger market hooked on fast action, even if I DID love DOOM) |
| 07:42.00 | Corrodias | post-WoW, i no longer tolerate more than the briefest of grinding or farming to "earn" my fun. |
| 07:42.11 | Amarande | remember, I'm 30, almost 31. |
| 07:42.15 | Amarande | I go back a LONG way when it comes to gaming |
| 07:42.34 | Amarande | when I started RPGs, they were almost entirely turn-based and based on strategic and tactical calculation |
| 07:42.48 | Corrodias | so this was before final fantasy's formula? |
| 07:42.51 | Amarande | now the type of game I grew up with and grew to love is virtually extinct |
| 07:43.06 | Amarande | Corrodias: I didn't get into FF until 2003 or so |
| 07:43.17 | Corrodias | before dragon quests's formula, then. |
| 07:43.23 | Amarande | but the FF type of battle I don't mind ... ATB is a real time system I'm happy with |
| 07:43.25 | Corrodias | too many s's in that... |
| 07:43.30 | Corrodias | no, i'm talking about before ATB |
| 07:43.44 | Amarande | ahh, I haven't played any of the pre-ATB FF's except FF2 on the PSP |
| 07:43.46 | Corrodias | i'm saying there was not much for strategy or tactical calculation, though you can kind of pretend so |
| 07:44.05 | Amarande | my introduction to RPGs, really, was via the Gold Box and Ultima series on PC |
| 07:44.17 | Corrodias | there you go. i never played those things, but i can respect that. |
| 07:44.23 | Amarande | then the Infinity Engine AD&D games |
| 07:44.45 | Amarande | but you never see anything like that now ... or even anything like the pre-FF12 FF type formula much anymore |
| 07:44.57 | Amarande | Atlus seems to be the only major RPG dev that's held onto the classical turn based formula |
| 07:45.16 | zenzio | ATB? |
| 07:45.18 | Corrodias | Dragon Age takes a good whack at classic BG/NWN-style combat. |
| 07:45.21 | Dagmar | Clearly you have not been on FF XIV yet. |
| 07:45.23 | Amarande | (and YES, Atlus games are very strategic even if they LOOK on the surface UI like FF games ... if you try to do the old FF attack attack attack strategy in an Atlus game YOU WILL DIE) |
| 07:45.33 | Dagmar | The one thing that can make fishing minigames MORE boring and they did it. |
| 07:45.36 | Dagmar | Fishing is turn based. |
| 07:45.50 | Amarande | Dagmar: more boring than WoW fishing? |
| 07:45.56 | Corrodias | the problem with the really old style mechanics is that they're, well, old. and stale. we can't just keep playing the same game over and over. |
| 07:46.04 | Dagmar | Amarande: Yes. |
| 07:46.05 | Amarande | Corrodias: sure we can, with new worlds and stories |
| 07:46.11 | Amarande | which is one thing that I don't get about gaming's evolution either |
| 07:46.28 | Amarande | see, back in the day, there were old style descriptive, mainly, rather than cinematic mechanics |
| 07:46.30 | Corrodias | if it's all the same to you, i'll read it in book form rather than play final fantasy with a new veneer for the eighteenth time |
| 07:46.33 | Amarande | and you never see those anymore. |
| 07:46.35 | Amarande | yet |
| 07:46.37 | Amarande | on the other hand |
| 07:46.37 | Corrodias | without innovation, i just can't be bothered |
| 07:46.41 | Amarande | the movie hasn't killed the book, has it? |
| 07:46.46 | Corrodias | WoW sucked the "let's do the same thing over and over" right out of me. |
| 07:46.47 | Amarande | so why can't the old style game survive too? |
| 07:46.56 | Corrodias | because it's a different medium |
| 07:47.03 | Corrodias | silent films died. |
| 07:47.05 | zenzio | Amarande: it can, it just won't have as big of a market share |
| 07:47.18 | zenzio | Corrodias: nonsense, I prefer my porn to be silent |
| 07:47.42 | Corrodias | me too, for the most part. you don't have to get the girls acting lessons, but at least tell them not to make so much noise. |
| 07:49.07 | Amarande | actually, we MAY see a resurgence very soon in smaller markets of the old classic FF style |
| 07:49.18 | Amarande | if I'm calculating correctly, the Square patent on ATB expires in the next couple years or so |
| 07:49.23 | Corrodias | i appreciate a good world and story, but if i can get that without playing through what amounts to the same gameplay as i've done a dozen times before, i'm going to do it. i'm always on the lookout for new experiences. |
| 07:49.41 | Corrodias | now, i don't mind seeing some older style stuff pop up now and then, or new twists on it. |
| 07:49.44 | zenzio | again, ATB? |
| 07:49.48 | Corrodias | "active time battle" |
| 07:49.50 | Amarande | zenzio: Active Time Battle |
| 07:49.57 | Corrodias | your... how do i put this... |
| 07:50.05 | Amarande | zenzio: it basically works like this |
| 07:50.10 | Corrodias | every actor in combat has an action meter that slowly rises |
| 07:50.12 | Amarande | you have action turns, but the turns come in real time |
| 07:50.17 | Corrodias | when it tops off, they take their turn |
| 07:50.33 | Amarande | although you CAN hold a character's turn as long as you like once it's up |
| 07:50.34 | zenzio | oh, I see. Sounds interesting |
| 07:50.36 | zenzio | if done right |
| 07:50.37 | Corrodias | the rates of the meters can vary |
| 07:50.47 | Amarande | Corrodias: yeah that's basically what the AGI stat does in FF |
| 07:50.57 | Corrodias | they used it in FF4 at least, i think? |
| 07:51.11 | Amarande | Corrodias: almost every FF from I think 4 through X-2 used it, except for X |
| 07:51.13 | Corrodias | i never played 3, and my memories of these are getting pretty hazy |
| 07:51.25 | Amarande | X-2 practically perfected it |
| 07:51.26 | mitch0 | best old style rpg I played was wizardry 7 |
| 07:51.40 | Amarande | People have very mixed feelings about X-2, probably because of the girl power stuff and what some people feel is bubblegum pop storyline |
| 07:51.47 | Amarande | but if there's one thing you can't argue with about X-2 |
| 07:51.52 | Amarande | it's that the battle system was really well done |
| 07:52.04 | Amarande | It basically perfected ATB and brought back the old Job class system from FF5 |
| 07:52.14 | Corrodias | oh my, wizardry is an old name |
| 07:52.37 | Corrodias | basically before my time. 7 i could have played, had i heard of it. |
| 07:52.42 | *** join/#wowuidev [Ammo] (~wouter@WoWUIDev/WowAce/ammo) |
| 07:52.42 | Amarande | in fact, X-2 is easily one of THE most challenging FFs to get 100% in, especially if you don't (or can't, if you have the International) decide to abuse the Cat Nip item |
| 07:52.49 | Dagmar | THey're okay with pedo, but bubblegum is taboo. Right. |
| 07:53.08 | Amarande | Without using the Catnip, some of the secret bosses are almost on a Satan or Hitoshura level of pain |
| 07:53.23 | Amarande | I'm STILL not sure how you're expected to beat Trema in X-2 International. |
| 07:53.26 | Corrodias | interesting |
| 07:53.31 | Amarande | You can't use the Cat Nip trick AND they busted the other trick people used |
| 07:53.42 | Corrodias | probably level grinding |
| 07:53.45 | Corrodias | i'd just move on. |
| 07:53.52 | Amarande | no, level grinding doesn't help you very much in Via Infinito |
| 07:54.09 | Amarande | because even dark knights (who get the most HP) only get into the 5000s or so with proper accessorization that I can recall |
| 07:54.17 | Amarande | and VI throws attacks that are "this pretty much guaranteed 9999 to all" |
| 07:54.18 | Xyphoid | wizardry 8 was a pretty good capstone for the series |
| 07:54.32 | Amarande | E.g. Black Elemental |
| 07:54.45 | Amarande | Black Elemental is pretty much the most screaming fast DPS race in gaming |
| 07:54.56 | Amarande | It has only 9999 HP, which isn't much at all in this sort of game |
| 07:54.57 | Amarande | HOWEVER |
| 07:54.59 | Amarande | if it even gets a turn |
| 07:55.20 | Amarande | it is overwhelmingly likely to cast Ultima, and then you're dead (9999 to all ... even if you have MAX magic defense, it's still about 9500) |
| 07:56.12 | Amarande | but yeah, Trema was a piece of cake on the US version even without the cat nip, even though his stats were basically all max |
| 07:56.45 | Amarande | if you equipped the right stuff, the only thing to worry about was that he, too, casts Ultima at one point ... but he has pathetically little MP, and you can drain that out in one shot long before he gets around to doing that. |
| 07:57.07 | Amarande | In International though they buffed him so he doesn't need MP to cast spells :) |
| 07:57.52 | Amarande | Dagmar: apparently a lot of red-blooded male players don't like having to play an all female party |
| 07:58.04 | Corrodias | good old squaresoft. making their games different in different regions. |
| 07:58.07 | Corrodias | because they're assholes. |
| 07:58.12 | Amarande | Corrodias: ugh, tell me about it |
| 07:58.19 | Amarande | no Dark Aeons for me unless I import a Japanese PS2 :( |
| 07:58.21 | Corrodias | they are the holes that you find at anuses. |
| 07:58.31 | Amarande | although honestly, the Dark Aeons are far from the hardest bosses you'll see in an RPG |
| 07:58.37 | Corrodias | oh, you meant that figuratively! :D |
| 07:59.00 | Amarande | remember, all but Anima and Penance have been beaten without touching the Sphere Grid and without relying on Zanmato. :) |
| 07:59.23 | Amarande | in fact, apparently in FFX, if you touch the sphere grid, you're a noob heh |
| 07:59.46 | Amarande | in fact, these days the simple No Sphere Grid challenge is generally considered to be too easy :) |
| 07:59.49 | Corrodias | i don't even know what those are. i haven't played a FF game past 9, which i hated. |
| 08:00.01 | Amarande | Corrodias: X used a fairly unique leveling system |
| 08:00.15 | Corrodias | i recall it being a highly-rated game. i should probably play it some day. |
| 08:00.15 | Amarande | rather than the dual system of EXP and AP that 7 through 9 had, there was AP only, which gave you Sphere Levels |
| 08:00.28 | Corrodias | but god, did i hate 9. |
| 08:00.31 | Amarande | you did not actually GAIN anything when you gained a Sphere Level, but the right to move a space on the Sphere Grid. |
| 08:01.02 | Amarande | In order to actually gain stats and abilities, you had to move along the sphere grid (spending Sphere Levels to do so), and slot spheres (which were a really common mob drop) into it. |
| 08:01.20 | Corrodias | mhm... |
| 08:01.28 | Amarande | Therefore X offered unique latitude for challenges because you can farm and fight as much as you want without being forced to level your characters |
| 08:01.38 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (~augustl@62.70.2.252) |
| 08:02.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:02.06 | Amarande | 9 was just plain too hard, although I didn't hate it |
| 08:02.35 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (~augustl@62.70.2.252) |
| 08:02.36 | Amarande | it relied too much on luck, basically ... which is fine in some cases (Hitoshura, for instance) but not so fine for the whole game :S |
| 08:02.50 | Amarande | well, actually some of my favorite games rely on luck but you don't need all THAT much of it most of the time |
| 08:03.08 | Amarande | 9's final boss was "I throw random status effects at the whole party. Pray I don't use Death or Zombie too much or you're out of luck." |
| 08:03.10 | Corrodias | eh, well, i hated the style, the pacing, the characters, and the basically nonexistant story. this is within the first few hours, anyway. |
| 08:03.23 | Corrodias | i couldn't stand it after that, so if there's a plot worth knowing, i didn't know it. |
| 08:03.30 | Amarande | Again, Hitoshura is like that in many respects, but he's a SPECIAL SIDE SUPER BOSS and thus that's appropriate. |
| 08:04.00 | Amarande | As for the hardest bosses I've seen in a turn based console RPG? |
| 08:04.14 | Amarande | Those would surely be the aforementioned Hitoshura, and Satan. |
| 08:04.21 | Amarande | At least among games I actually have, anyway. |
| 08:04.46 | Amarande | And actually I'm going to brand myself a hypocrite once I can play Shin Megami Tensei 1 and 2, because some of the boss mechanics I just criticized about FF9 are in spades there |
| 08:04.56 | Amarande | however, I love the SMT series to the point that I'm willing to overlook that and be a little masochistic. :) |
| 08:05.18 | Amarande | You really have to be to play SMT, anyway. |
| 08:05.18 | Corrodias | ah yes, SMT, another series i've sadly overlooked |
| 08:05.54 | Xyphoid | ff the mt still won't install dbm for putricide |
| 08:05.55 | Corrodias | but i have over a hundred games on my to-play list, and i keep dropping new games on it |
| 08:05.58 | Xyphoid | so i'm calling out my stacks of plague |
| 08:05.59 | Amarande | Basically, Hitoshura works like this: |
| 08:06.02 | Corrodias | i may never play anything from SMT |
| 08:06.17 | Corrodias | *dropping -> adding |
| 08:06.20 | Amarande | He has two adds at all times (if you kill one, he will summon a new one in a fixed sequence the next turn). |
| 08:06.46 | Amarande | He himself throws NASTY strong physical attacks that crit like, *all the freaking time*. (And crits in Digital Devil Saga and SMT Nocturne give an extra turn, basically.) |
| 08:07.01 | Amarande | His adds throw all kinds of fun ranging from "chance of instant death on all" to just plain Megidolaon. |
| 08:07.15 | Amarande | Any status changes you put on him (stat buffs/debuffs) will be removed by one of the adds on their turn. |
| 08:07.45 | Amarande | If you use ANY sort of immunity skill, whether passive or actively cast, the next thing he will do is Gaia Rage. This is unblockable and deals about 18,000 damage to everyone. (Did I mention the max HP in DDS is 999?) |
| 08:07.58 | Amarande | (There is one exception to this.) |
| 08:08.18 | Amarande | Also, every third add he goes through, will cast a "sleep on all" on the party and then he will use Gaia Rage. |
| 08:08.31 | Corrodias | so does this mean the strategy on this guy is to just beat him up while healing yourself? |
| 08:08.56 | Amarande | Nor can you just leave the adds alive, because after 29 or 30 turns of being alive, not counting Dekaja/Dekunda (the buff/debuff removers) an add will sacrifice itself to heal him and the other add back to full. |
| 08:09.11 | Amarande | Corrodias: Oh, it's a lot harder than that. |
| 08:09.19 | Amarande | Note the above. |
| 08:09.42 | Corrodias | okay, so beat on him, kill the dudes once in a while, and kill him before the soft enrage |
| 08:09.43 | Amarande | So you can't just leave the first two adds alive to avoid Gaia Rage. No, you have to figure out a way to survive that, and there's only one way to, involving a skill that's almost useless the rest of the game. :) |
| 08:10.07 | Amarande | There's a skill you can equip that gives you 100% dodge against anything (yes, including Gaia Rage) while you're asleep. |
| 08:10.17 | Amarande | I did mention what every third add (the ones before he casts GR normally) did, right? :) |
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| 08:10.37 | Amarande | Basically, it's gimmick/luck. |
| 08:10.54 | Amarande | Satan, on the other hand, is somewhat more straightforward - but not really any easier. |
| 08:10.55 | Corrodias | sounds exciting, in a way, but also pretty simple |
| 08:11.07 | Corrodias | not "easy", but simple enough |
| 08:11.15 | Amarande | Satan has 30,000 HP, can only be fought on Hard mode (so his damage is amped compared to what you might expect) |
| 08:11.38 | Corrodias | not WoW boss level choreography. not civilization-level strategy. |
| 08:11.53 | Corrodias | if you do like strategic and tactical play, though, you should consider wargames |
| 08:11.57 | Amarande | Changes attack patterns at 15,000 and 7,500 HP, and if you leave him a turn below 1,500 HP he uses Diarahan. (This feeds on your tears, seriously. You might have an idea as to just what it does.) |
| 08:13.05 | Dagmar | qq |
| 08:13.05 | Amarande | The main thing about Satan is that again, you can't use passive immunity skills (he doesn't kill you, but his first turn he uses a skill that negates them). You CAN use actively cast shields, though (but you can only ever have one of those up on the party at a time, and they only last for one round each). |
| 08:13.45 | Amarande | He also changes his damage immunities every round on a four round cycle (unlike Hitoshura, who's just flat out null to everything but Almighty and Earth). |
| 08:14.00 | Corrodias | ah |
| 08:14.15 | Amarande | The other fun thing about that four round cycle is that every fourth round, if you have at least one character fully buffed on ALL stats, he will use Dekaja to negate that. |
| 08:14.19 | Amarande | That's the good news. |
| 08:14.36 | Amarande | if you *don't* have this, he will use God's Breath, which instead deals an unblockable 9999 damage to everyone (yeah, the HP cap's still 999). |
| 08:15.38 | Amarande | Below 15k HP, he starts using stronger spells (Satan is purely a caster boss, btw) |
| 08:15.56 | zenzio | http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/9447/slide_9447_138499_large.jpg?1284452136971 ... |
| 08:16.20 | Corrodias | he is mesmerized by its potency |
| 08:16.39 | unfo- | what the hell are you guys talking about?-D |
| 08:17.12 | Amarande | and he also, during each cycle, on the round after God's Breath will use Temptation, which is an automatic charm unless you blocked it with the Mind nulling shield. |
| 08:17.41 | Corrodias | that does actually sound fun |
| 08:17.57 | mitch0 | pokemon |
| 08:18.01 | Amarande | Below 7.5k HP, his spells get stronger again, and he also uses God's Judgment, which automatically kills the living character with the lowest Magic stat (if all are same it is random), no chance to block, on each of the two rounds per cycle that I haven't mentioned anything about yet. |
| 08:18.11 | Amarande | (Did I mention that when a character dies and is rezzed, all their stat buffs are reset ...) |
| 08:18.23 | Dagmar | Ohho |
| 08:18.29 | Amarande | Below 1.5k HP, if he has a turn, he casts Diarahan. You don't want this. Seriously, you will cry and throw your controller at the TV if you've managed to make it this far and see him use this. |
| 08:18.38 | Amarande | (Any guesses yet on just what Diarahan does?) |
| 08:18.46 | Dagmar | if I wanna play Tetra Master I see now I can just get a $9 code for my PS3 and it'll download it |
| 08:18.47 | Corrodias | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:18.53 | Amarande | I'll give you a hint: It doesn't do anything to YOU. |
| 08:18.53 | Dagmar | That'll be handy |
| 08:19.09 | Amarande | In fact, it's practically the only thing he casts that doesn't do anything to your party. :) |
| 08:19.18 | mitch0 | amarande: any guess how much this whole thing scores on my care-o-meter? |
| 08:19.22 | Amarande | It is a single targeted spell. |
| 08:19.24 | Corrodias | it changes his outfit to a banana hammock |
| 08:19.24 | Dagmar | Full heal and a cupcake? |
| 08:19.24 | Amarande | Any guesses yet? :) |
| 08:19.28 | zenzio | Amarande: it sounds suspiciously like an unpleasant disease |
| 08:19.30 | Amarande | Dagmar: Pretty much, yeah. :) |
| 08:19.53 | Amarande | A green 30,000 appears over his head and you go off to the corner to beat the ever living crap out of something. :) |
| 08:19.57 | Corrodias | we get it, you lose the fight if you fuck it up there |
| 08:20.15 | Amarande | so yeah, pretty fun, but also mind-numbingly hard |
| 08:20.19 | Corrodias | i don't get that mad at games; if they annoy me enough, i stop playing long before i ever damage anything |
| 08:21.13 | jnwhiteh | zomg industrial is so leet. |
| 08:21.19 | Amarande | Corrodias: given how hard it is to actually survive down to that point (especially once he goes below 7.5k he's nasty as hell), it does tend to piss the hell off of players :) |
| 08:21.24 | mitch0 | he is? |
| 08:21.53 | Corrodias | maybe i wouldn't play that long, i dunno |
| 08:22.04 | Amarande | Corrodias: yeah, even getting to Satan requires more patience than I had |
| 08:22.22 | Amarande | in order to fight Satan, first you have to fight the optional boss Seth, which requires that you beat the other optional bosses Vishnu and Shiva first |
| 08:22.41 | Amarande | in order to fight Vishnu and Shiva, for each boss you have to get a rare drop off of one of the rarest enemies in the final dungeon, and I never had the patience to get the second one |
| 08:22.46 | Corrodias | i beat viewtiful joe on the regular difficulty. i almost considered giving up at one point, but i never got angry. |
| 08:22.58 | Amarande | wtf, when did mIRC start supporting italics?? |
| 08:23.22 | Corrodias | i think it was the last update |
| 08:23.23 | Amarande | Corrodias, that's the first time I've seen anyone use italics on IRC, I didn't know there was a code for that now :) |
| 08:23.52 | zenzio | I happily strip all formatting on incoming text on IRC |
| 08:24.01 | Corrodias | i'm surprised that the +c mode doesn't strip that code |
| 08:24.19 | Amarande | I still remember the olden days when the BitchX client was popular |
| 08:24.32 | Amarande | and its nick completion included a bold colon which apparently pissed some people off to *no end* |
| 08:24.39 | Amarande | I'm not sure how a bold colon was *that* annoying |
| 08:24.40 | Corrodias | do what you will; that my text does not have the intended formatting on your display is not my problem. |
| 08:24.46 | Dagmar | Do you always freak out so easily? |
| 08:25.07 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 08:25.22 | Corrodias | (and that is a response to zenzio) |
| 08:25.35 | zenzio | I figured =) |
| 08:25.44 | Amarande | and personally, I don't actually get pissed off enough to smash controllers or such |
| 08:25.58 | Amarande | (my brother does, though. I still remember losing one of my controllers while he was fighting Demyx in KH2.) |
| 08:26.29 | Amarande | or did, anyway. he doesn't do that to 360 controllers ... and he was still just a kid at that point |
| 08:26.35 | Corrodias | hm. dangerous people. |
| 08:26.44 | zenzio | I don't smash controllers, but I do slam my palm on my desk (or my fist on nearby pillows) occasionally in some games... thankfully not often |
| 08:27.00 | zenzio | seems to work better for me than shouting |
| 08:27.03 | Amarande | now he just does what civilized men do when they get royally pissed off, namely use a lot of words with four letters |
| 08:27.06 | Corrodias | i admit to doing something similar, rarely. i think CoD2 made me do that a couple of times. |
| 08:27.51 | Amarande | myself, I tend to growl a lot under such circumstances. |
| 08:27.59 | Amarande | when solo gaming, anyway. |
| 08:28.30 | Amarande | in social company, it's often very hard to tell when I'm pissed off. |
| 08:28.52 | zenzio | oh, I do growl/grumble at the monitor before I go punching things |
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| 08:30.04 | Amarande | well, under some circumstances anyway. |
| 08:30.12 | Amarande | if I'm pissed off at a computer, one will tend to hear me grumbling "stupid computer" |
| 08:30.53 | Amarande | does this fairly often at work, because the computers there suck. |
| 08:31.49 | Amarande | however, I rarely get pissed off at boss fights in console games the way my brother does |
| 08:31.55 | Amarande | because he has a very "rush through the game" style |
| 08:32.04 | Corrodias | meh |
| 08:32.06 | Amarande | while I tend to coldly and precisely prepare for each boss |
| 08:32.24 | Amarande | I will actually take the time to gather up the status immunity abilities/accessories/etc. before facing the boss |
| 08:32.52 | Amarande | which means usually the boss, unless it's something like Hito or Satan that doesn't let you prepare like that, has been more or less completely neutered before battle is even joined :) |
| 08:33.25 | zenzio | I get more verbal with games if they force me to do things at a certain pace - like timed misisons in RTS games |
| 08:33.30 | zenzio | like to take my time |
| 08:33.35 | Amarande | zenzio: yeah, those bug me too, I like to take my time as well |
| 08:33.41 | Amarande | especially since you can't prepare as precisely if you don't |
| 08:33.49 | mitch0 | amarande: so, have you ascended in nethack yet? |
| 08:33.58 | *** join/#wowuidev ^RaK^ (~rakkeh@109.170.128.22) |
| 08:34.05 | Amarande | mitch0: I haven't played nethack much in a long long time |
| 08:34.11 | Amarande | I usually get eaten by soldier ants |
| 08:34.16 | mitch0 | :) |
| 08:34.50 | Amarande | although sometimes I do feel that "this is getting too easy" feeling about some RPGs when I prepare like that |
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| 08:35.16 | Amarande | like the third Shadow Hearts game, where it seemed that every boss would rely FAR too much on one specific status effect each |
| 08:35.28 | Amarande | and if you had the right accessory to counter it equipped on everyone, it was patchwerk |
| 08:35.35 | Corrodias | i've never even heard of that series |
| 08:35.43 | zenzio | Amarande: yeah, sometimes it's like that |
| 08:35.48 | Amarande | Corrodias: It's pretty good, but can be pretty hard to find |
| 08:36.00 | Amarande | and there's only ever going to be the 3 games unless some rich fan buys out the rights :( |
| 08:36.25 | Corrodias | i can always emulate the bastards if i really want to play |
| 08:36.43 | Amarande | if you want really challenging RPGs it seems you have to go back to the Nineties |
| 08:36.51 | Amarande | games like Shin Megami Tensei 2, Pools of Darkness, Dark Queen of Krynn |
| 08:37.01 | Amarande | I STILL haven't finished Pools of Darkness without cheating |
| 08:37.06 | Amarande | that game is a goddamn beast when it comes to that |
| 08:37.39 | Amarande | SMT2 I haven't tried since I don't know enough Japanese and it's not out in English |
| 08:37.49 | Amarande | DQoK I've finished, but that one is a doozy too |
| 08:38.39 | Amarande | DQoK mostly gets really intense because there's a ton of AoE casting enemies and in-battle healing is single target only and nowhere near as strong as the damage that can be dealt |
| 08:38.57 | Amarande | like basically every mage casts Delayed Blast Fireball, which can basically wreck your whole party in one cast |
| 08:39.22 | Amarande | Fortunately, the 1st Edition AD&D rule of "can't cast a spell in a round during which you took damage" is in effect |
| 08:39.44 | Amarande | however, DQoK mages tend to have a ton of shield spells up making this actually somewhat challenging to do |
| 08:40.14 | Dagmar | You won't like this but... My approach to those games is as follows: |
| 08:40.31 | Dagmar | If (they have buff) I debuff. |
| 08:40.34 | Amarande | Cheat? |
| 08:40.35 | Amarande | Ahh. |
| 08:40.38 | Corrodias | you're welcome to play however you want |
| 08:40.42 | Amarande | Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can debuff them |
| 08:40.45 | Dagmar | Id (we have no buff) we buff |
| 08:40.55 | Dagmar | If (we have buff) and (they have debuff) we attack. |
| 08:41.02 | Dagmar | That's _it_. |
| 08:41.21 | Amarande | The problem is that if they have even ONE free round to cast, and you haven't cast fire resistance on the whole party before you start battle (and sometimes these mages are in random encounters, too), they basically deal 50-100 to the entire party, and often characters in AD&D 1st never even *got* to 100 HP |
| 08:41.35 | Amarande | Plus the Krynn games really encouraged you to roll elves, and elves can't be rezzed. At all. |
| 08:41.36 | Dagmar | There's no need to get excited about whether or not a mob in those games are "nasty" or not. Either they die to that or you probably weren't meant to win against them yet |
| 08:41.45 | Corrodias | kind of OP, huh. |
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| 08:42.06 | Corrodias | but you don't want to go letting a mage cast fire tornado or whatever in Dragon Age, either, so there you go |
| 08:42.10 | Corrodias | i have to go to bed. later. |
| 08:42.34 | Dagmar | Corrodias: Holy crap I noticed that in Awakening |
| 08:42.35 | Dagmar | lol |
| 08:42.46 | Amarande | Also, Dispel Magic, as well as the damage spells that do work reliably on them (before being dispelled, they're immune to Lightning Bolt and Magic Missile and mostly immune to fire as well), have fairly limited range, and the mages tend to be far in the back row |
| 08:43.02 | Dagmar | EVERY time I turned around it seemed like the mage decided "Well, this probably won't kill us yet" and FWOOM |
| 08:43.04 | Amarande | That can be quite far back, especially if you're fighting in a corridor against a large enemy group they can be six or seven rows behind your front line |
| 08:43.12 | Corrodias | hahahah |
| 08:43.29 | Dagmar | I had to get in there and take that one away from the AI |
| 08:43.35 | zenzio | on the other hand, I loved to use Inferno and that death cloud thing simultaneously in a room and then cast Rune of Repulsion in the narrow doorway/entry in DA:O |
| 08:43.38 | Amarande | Caster mobs in the AD&D games in general were horrible, horrible killers though |
| 08:43.49 | Amarande | Clerics could potentially be even worse in the Gold Box series, too |
| 08:43.54 | Amarande | And that was with a SECOND level spell. |
| 08:44.01 | Amarande | Probably the single most OP second level spell in the whole series. |
| 08:44.04 | Corrodias | i'm out; peace |
| 08:44.08 | Amarande | Night Corrodias |
| 08:44.33 | Dagmar | zenzio: I generally used earthquake and an oil slick |
| 08:44.46 | Amarande | Hold Person ... Oh god Hold Person. Paralysis if you failed your save (and these are not Third Edition saves that are easy to make, until you're in the teens or so in fact most saves tend to be failed rather than succeeded), and paralyzed characters were one-shot by any physical hit. |
| 08:44.53 | Dagmar | I kinda keep my parties well stocked in AoE |
| 08:45.09 | Dagmar | ...because AoE kills of small fights and large fights equally fast. :0 |
| 08:45.25 | Amarande | And it could target up to three separate (not within a specific AoE either - three *specifically selected* targets) characters per cast. |
| 08:46.03 | Amarande | At least that works both ways though ... in Champions of Krynn I'd always use it on the high level fighters in Sanction to grab their plate armor well before plate armor normally became available |
| 08:46.34 | Amarande | I really have got to get DA. |
| 08:46.56 | Dagmar | You want it on the PC |
| 08:47.06 | Dagmar | The combat is much more uber |
| 08:47.09 | Amarande | Yeah, it would be on PC, I'll mostly likely be getting it through Steam. |
| 08:47.53 | Dagmar | On the consoles, you can almost ignore micro-management |
| 08:48.08 | Dagmar | On the PC, *if* you micro, you're basically unstoppable |
| 08:48.17 | Dagmar | ...but you'll work for it |
| 08:50.23 | zenzio | Dagmar: through my normal run on DA:O, I played a healer with runes and the fire tree; since my warrior failed horribly... so it was me + Morrigan, Zhevran (?) and Alistair |
| 08:50.53 | zenzio | the Brood Mother fight I stood all the way in the back using death cloud and Inferno on her, and only letting my melee deal with tentacles |
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| 08:51.13 | Amarande | I'm also at some point wanting to play Arcanum again, but I'm not sure my character build that I want is viable unmodded :( |
| 08:52.02 | Amarande | either of you ever play Arcanum? |
| 08:52.19 | zenzio | don't think so |
| 08:54.17 | digmouse|work | morning |
| 08:54.20 | zenzio | roughly when was it released? |
| 08:54.47 | Amarande | August 2001 |
| 08:54.54 | Amarande | it was one of Troika's best releases, back when they were around |
| 08:55.07 | Amarande | I wanted to play a Magic Diplomat but that's almost impossible to build |
| 08:55.15 | Amarande | mostly because you only ever get 64 character points |
| 08:55.26 | Amarande | now: stats start at 8 and max at 20, and each stat point costs 1 CP |
| 08:55.51 | Amarande | each point in a skill costs 1 CP, too, as does each spell. |
| 08:55.59 | Xyphoid | woo putri |
| 08:56.16 | Amarande | to be a proper diplomat you need 20 Charisma (so that's 12 points there) and you need five points invested into Persuasion. |
| 08:56.18 | Amarande | That's 17 points down. |
| 08:57.19 | Amarande | Here's the rub though: In order to actually diplomat properly, you also need to be smart enough (Int stat) to get the dialogue options you need |
| 08:57.31 | Amarande | and that requires you almost max out Int (so that's another 10-12 points or so) |
| 08:57.55 | Amarande | stat buffs aren't really reliable, because some of the quests require series dialogues and stat buffs expire in real time even during conversations |
| 08:58.16 | Amarande | so ... 27-29 points down. |
| 08:58.35 | Amarande | This would be fine enough if you were Tech, because Tech schematic learning requirements are all based off Int. |
| 08:59.14 | Amarande | However, if you're a mage, to learn top level spells, you have to have 18 in Willpower and there goes another ten character points. |
| 09:00.20 | Amarande | Basically you've had to spend about 40 character points out of a maximum ever of 64 (and remember that to get more than the first five, you have to actually survive to LEVEL to get those points), just to have the basic stats you need to do the diplomat build and that's not even counting spells themselves or your basic survival skills and stats (and you do need at least a little combat ability |
| 09:00.20 | Amarande | to survive to where you get more than 1-2 more party members ...) |
| 09:00.26 | Amarande | I'm still not sure exactly how to pull it off. |
| 09:00.55 | zenzio | sounds like a challenge |
| 09:01.07 | Amarande | zenzio: yeah that was the biggest problem with Arcanum |
| 09:01.15 | Amarande | it offered you what appeared to be almost complete character build versatility |
| 09:01.31 | Amarande | but builds that needed most of your points put into non-combat related stuff were really really hard to do |
| 09:02.00 | Amarande | particularly since you didn't really get access to large amounts of quest XP, or at least quest XP that didn't require a lot of difficult (and more difficult for such builds) combat, until really late |
| 09:02.10 | Amarande | and before that, the gods have placed the Black Mountain Clan Mines. |
| 09:02.15 | Amarande | Oh god, the Black Mountain Clan Mines. |
| 09:02.23 | Amarande | Most definitely the scrappy dungeon of the game. |
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| 09:13.15 | jnwhiteh | wowinsider.com -> wow.com -> wow.joystiq.com |
| 09:13.18 | jnwhiteh | lolfuckingwhat? |
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| 09:16.06 | myrkraverk | Coming back to guardian unit frames: Can I grab the GUID from the combat log (or maybe the after cast event) and make a unit frame from that, even if not secure? |
| 09:16.54 | jnwhiteh | no |
| 09:17.02 | jnwhiteh | you can't query information about a unit by GUID |
| 09:17.18 | myrkraverk | Oh. |
| 09:17.23 | jnwhiteh | you might be able to approximate it, but this involves massive work with the combat log and will be massively prone to error |
| 09:17.52 | myrkraverk | Hmm. |
| 09:18.51 | myrkraverk | So my options are currently: Get Blizzard to make (at least) "playerguardian" unit ID, or allow us to query GUIDs? |
| 09:19.55 | jnwhiteh | the second will not happen |
| 09:20.08 | myrkraverk | Ok. |
| 09:20.21 | jnwhiteh | what guardian are you concerned with? |
| 09:20.36 | myrkraverk | the warlock infernal and doom guard, in cataclysm. |
| 09:20.56 | jnwhiteh | don't they fall under the "pet" unit? |
| 09:21.13 | myrkraverk | I made a small addon that adds the minion's target to the default UI and I'd like to add the guardian and it's target for completeness. |
| 09:21.22 | myrkraverk | *its |
| 09:21.27 | mikma | umm |
| 09:21.41 | mikma | pretty useless feature, but whatever drives your nuts |
| 09:21.46 | myrkraverk | ;-D |
| 09:22.01 | mikma | after all they have limited lifetime |
| 09:22.20 | myrkraverk | I know. 45 seconds. Whis can actually be a long time (or seem so) in battle. |
| 09:22.49 | jnwhiteh | you could look at the combat log messages, check the flags to see if the guardian is attacking someone who you have a unit id for, and display that if you'd like |
| 09:22.57 | jnwhiteh | but its a lot of effort for not much good |
| 09:23.46 | mikma | yeah, combat log stuff is nasty, right jnwhiteh? ;) |
| 09:23.50 | myrkraverk | Yeah. I guess I'll have to convince Blizzard to add playerguardian - I understand adding general guardian IDs will give too many advantages in macros. |
| 09:24.12 | Cide | macros? think addons |
| 09:24.15 | mikma | lol lol |
| 09:24.16 | jnwhiteh | I'm fairly certain you'll have difficulty with that. |
| 09:24.19 | mikma | thats so good |
| 09:24.26 | jnwhiteh | Totems are guardians |
| 09:24.29 | mikma | "I guess I'll have to convince Blizzard to add playerguardian" |
| 09:24.30 | jnwhiteh | in the way the game works |
| 09:24.32 | mikma | best quote ever |
| 09:24.59 | myrkraverk | I'm nothing if not persistent. |
| 09:25.07 | myrkraverk | Those I play with know that by now. |
| 09:25.13 | mikma | just like the one dude that was planning on hacking wow to support his stupid code |
| 09:25.22 | Cide | persistence doesn't imply success |
| 09:25.30 | myrkraverk | Cide, I know. |
| 09:25.47 | myrkraverk | mikma, I'm not that desperate. |
| 09:26.10 | mikma | yes you are xD |
| 09:26.30 | myrkraverk | Do shaman totems target enemies like the ones in Zul'Gurub? |
| 09:27.12 | mikma | fire elemental and earth elemental do at some way |
| 09:27.24 | amro | shaman totems do lots of things |
| 09:27.27 | amro | dirty, filthy things |
| 09:28.10 | Cide | I'll do dirty, filty things to your totem |
| 09:28.25 | myrkraverk | Well, I don't suppose playerguardian<n> for totems is going to hurt gameplay? |
| 09:28.56 | jnwhiteh | the fact of the matter is, this is a non-trivial change and it gains blizzard absolutely nothing |
| 09:29.08 | jnwhiteh | that is precisely when things don't get added. |
| 09:29.43 | myrkraverk | jnwhiteh, non-trivial depends on the code they currently have. |
| 09:29.50 | jnwhiteh | yes |
| 09:29.53 | jnwhiteh | and I can see quite a bit of it |
| 09:29.59 | jnwhiteh | I consider it a non-trivial change |
| 09:31.01 | myrkraverk | jnwhiteh, I don't know, I'm a pro coder and I've done trivial non-trivial changes before. |
| 09:31.03 | Cide | unit id's have tons of integration points all around the ui |
| 09:31.05 | amro | from my experience with blizzard, I'm sure even bumping the build number is non-trivial |
| 09:31.23 | jnwhiteh | "pro coder", I think I'm done with this conversation |
| 09:31.32 | myrkraverk | Good. |
| 09:31.50 | mikma | jnwhiteh: why, this was getting in the top level of awesomeness |
| 09:32.15 | Cide | 30s left for my popcorn to arrive |
| 09:32.21 | Torhal | Are you a professional winner? |
| 09:32.46 | Cide | I'm a chronic winner |
| 09:33.42 | myrkraverk | Who would be a professional winner? Professional athletes? |
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| 09:34.16 | Torhal | So you do code gymnastics? |
| 09:34.53 | jnwhiteh | don't take the bait guys |
| 09:34.59 | jnwhiteh | this can't end well =) |
| 09:34.59 | myrkraverk | Not anymore. Everyone can do code gymnastics. Writing clear, concise and correct code is pro. |
| 09:35.37 | amro | there's the rub. wow's codebase is anything but clear, concise and correct :P |
| 09:35.50 | myrkraverk | Oh. |
| 09:36.01 | amro | most games are like that |
| 09:36.05 | amro | MMOs especially so |
| 09:37.39 | myrkraverk | And here I was hoping they'd be doing some sort of lean thinking and quality code. |
| 09:37.52 | jnwhiteh | nope, that's our job. |
| 09:38.09 | myrkraverk | who is "we" ? |
| 09:38.12 | jnwhiteh | addon authors. |
| 09:38.16 | myrkraverk | Ah. |
| 09:39.16 | amro | don't criticize, myrkraverk |
| 09:39.24 | amro | the nature of game design makes it hard to do things the right way |
| 09:39.29 | amro | er, game development |
| 09:39.41 | jnwhiteh | the waytraced wolfenstein is pretty damn cool |
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| 09:40.19 | myrkraverk | amro, I'm not criticizing. I'm currently crying for my friend who's applied at CCP. |
| 09:40.49 | amro | sounds like an awesome opportunity |
| 09:40.56 | amro | if I wasn't half a planet away I would too |
| 09:41.31 | myrkraverk | I wouldn't - I can't be paid to use windows. |
| 09:41.50 | amro | you'll find few jobs that pay you |
| 09:42.06 | myrkraverk | There are plenty of jobs for unix programmers out there. |
| 09:42.20 | amro | almost none of them involve making badass games |
| 09:42.31 | myrkraverk | amro, Who said I wanted to make badass games? |
| 09:42.39 | amro | I'm talking about your friend |
| 09:42.46 | myrkraverk | amro, And I can still work for consoles, they don't run windows (except maybe xbox?) |
| 09:42.49 | myrkraverk | Ah. |
| 09:43.03 | amro | while you're toiling away on some java server, he's going to be working and spaceships and lasers |
| 09:43.06 | myrkraverk | He can work with windows - it's his problem ;-P |
| 09:43.09 | amro | s/and/on/ |
| 09:43.24 | myrkraverk | And? |
| 09:43.26 | sylvanaar | charges his lasers |
| 09:43.32 | amro | and, you shouldn't be crying for him |
| 09:43.36 | jnwhiteh | lasers his chargers |
| 09:43.38 | amro | unless you're jealous :P |
| 09:43.39 | myrkraverk | Oh well. |
| 09:43.50 | myrkraverk | I'm not. I don't even like EvE. |
| 09:43.53 | Cide | blame microsoft for making dx awesome? |
| 09:44.03 | amro | dx isn't awesome :( |
| 09:44.07 | Cide | opengl is worse |
| 09:44.12 | amro | not really |
| 09:44.13 | myrkraverk | Cide, if it's awesome, it only took them 10 years to do it. |
| 09:44.25 | myrkraverk | And several incompatible versions. |
| 09:44.25 | Cide | don't see any competitor though myrkraverk :P |
| 09:44.40 | Cide | (opengl, yes) |
| 09:44.48 | amro | it's all programmable pipeline now |
| 09:44.51 | myrkraverk | Cide, dunno, have you coded for consoles? |
| 09:45.02 | amro | ps3 does opengl |
| 09:45.04 | amro | opengl ES |
| 09:45.12 | amro | and wii has some weird shit going on |
| 09:45.15 | amro | nobody knows |
| 09:45.16 | myrkraverk | well, ps2 doesn't - unless you want soft render. |
| 09:45.20 | Cide | rofl amro |
| 09:45.23 | amro | one guy knew, he was going to talk, but then they shot him |
| 09:45.38 | sylvanaar | conspiracy |
| 09:45.44 | myrkraverk | And I'm not sure pro ps3 coders use opengl, but I can ask. |
| 09:45.55 | amro | have you ever had a technical conversation with someone behind an NDA? |
| 09:46.03 | amro | so many euphemisms, it's like a drug deal |
| 09:46.13 | myrkraverk | amro, Yes. |
| 09:46.42 | Cide | NDA? |
| 09:46.59 | myrkraverk | I actually know personally (to a point) people working on consoles (among other things). |
| 09:47.01 | amro | they make you sign an NDA when they give you the SDK |
| 09:47.04 | myrkraverk | non disclosure agreement. |
| 09:47.23 | amro | which is stupid IMO |
| 09:47.34 | myrkraverk | amro, for the record I have all the technical manuals for the ps2 hardware (legally) |
| 09:47.39 | Cide | oh, by NDA you mean "the "paper"" |
| 09:47.44 | amro | it does nothing to hide their tech from competitors, and it discourages people who don't have mountains of cash |
| 09:48.05 | myrkraverk | well, not "all" I don't have the I/O chip tech details. |
| 09:48.07 | amro | didn't the ps2 release an indie dev version? |
| 09:48.09 | amro | or was that the psone? |
| 09:48.18 | amro | for like really cheap |
| 09:48.34 | myrkraverk | well, I got my manuals with the ps2 linux kit. |
| 09:48.53 | Jerub | got a form response from my ticket. at least i think it's a form response |
| 09:48.59 | amro | ps2 is kinda... dead |
| 09:49.03 | Jerub | they directed me to: http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=17761 |
| 09:49.17 | myrkraverk | amro, technically, it's a very beautiful architecture. |
| 09:49.18 | Jerub | (re: ninjalooter in icc25 the other night) |
| 09:49.30 | amro | so was the SNES |
| 09:49.35 | amro | still dead :P |
| 09:49.58 | myrkraverk | Dead doesn't mean experience for coding it counts for nothing. |
| 09:50.37 | amro | no, but for most devs it's just brownie points |
| 09:50.47 | Spejnar | Jerub: ive alrdy tried that on EU and it wasnt scamming, even tho he clearly stated the loot rules and clearly ninjaed. The answer was just "dont pug". |
| 09:50.50 | amro | only the real good devs recognize the value of that kind of experience |
| 09:51.01 | myrkraverk | Not for corporations hiring devs. |
| 09:51.06 | sylvanaar | i need to figure out a way to drum up some more interest in my Lua IDE so i can get some feedback |
| 09:51.23 | sylvanaar | think i should start trading sexual favors for feedback? |
| 09:51.28 | Cide | should take your experience, apply to blizzard, and add "playerguardian" |
| 09:51.39 | zenzio | buzz words! XML! Web 2.0! SOA! |
| 09:51.43 | amro | cide with the home run |
| 09:51.43 | myrkraverk | Cide, I'm not in a hurry to do that, but I may. |
| 09:51.54 | Cide | and then quit |
| 09:51.59 | Cide | only to realize it's bugged |
| 09:52.02 | amro | most corporations are mediocre |
| 09:52.05 | myrkraverk | Erm, probably not (quit). |
| 09:52.05 | jnwhiteh | myrkraverk: you'd have to use Windows. |
| 09:52.08 | amro | just as "most" of any given field are mediocre |
| 09:52.12 | Cide | but (bugged) |
| 09:52.16 | myrkraverk | jnwhiteh, Why? |
| 09:52.24 | jnwhiteh | because, that's what the systems programmers use |
| 09:52.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Humbedooh (~Humbedooh@port530.ds1-op.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 09:52.39 | myrkraverk | jnwhiteh, You mean none of them use the mac? |
| 09:52.50 | amro | blizzard has one mac guy |
| 09:52.51 | jnwhiteh | "the mac" can be used for Windows, and there are quite a few who do that. |
| 09:52.58 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 09:53.01 | myrkraverk | ;-D |
| 09:53.18 | Jerub | Spejnar: it's really disappointing that there's no repercussion for ninja'ing. |
| 09:53.25 | myrkraverk | And what about all the coders who do their unix servers? |
| 09:53.27 | Cide | amro: "most" are mediocre by definition :P |
| 09:53.35 | Jerub | i mean, i don't want a trial and a judge and jury and wow-cops and stuff. |
| 09:53.35 | jnwhiteh | myrkraverk: they don't have access to add "playerguardian" =) |
| 09:53.36 | amro | yeah |
| 09:53.44 | jnwhiteh | and they still use Windows for the most part |
| 09:53.55 | myrkraverk | Pff. ;-D |
| 09:53.56 | Jerub | but clear-cut "i'm a cock and i can get away with this" ninja-looting can just happen and there's nothing that can be done. |
| 09:53.58 | amro | Jerub: you just want wow-vigilantes |
| 09:53.59 | jnwhiteh | unix is fairly under-used there with game systems, actually. |
| 09:54.22 | sylvanaar | low ROI |
| 09:54.27 | Spejnar | Jerub: when rules are clearly stated and clearly broken there should be some bitch slapping, yes. |
| 09:54.27 | myrkraverk | Do you know if the still have a linux client, internally? |
| 09:54.41 | myrkraverk | s/the/they/ |
| 09:54.50 | Jerub | Spejnar: yep. something like that |
| 09:54.52 | jnwhiteh | I don't, but Wine works. |
| 09:54.52 | amro | sylvanaar: it's because they invest too late |
| 09:55.03 | myrkraverk | jnwhiteh, That's what I use. |
| 09:55.26 | sylvanaar | amro: would people using linux pay for a game? |
| 09:55.32 | amro | also, blizzard doesn't give a flying fuck about linux |
| 09:55.43 | amro | sylvanaar: yes |
| 09:55.48 | myrkraverk | And I wonder if I should make a GM ticket to give the guy who added hardware cursor to opengl a dalaran cookie. |
| 09:55.57 | amro | it's a very low ROI if they port their game after completion |
| 09:55.59 | amro | too expensive |
| 09:56.14 | amro | but if they start with a cross-platform codebase, it costs very little to maintain multiple platforms |
| 09:56.22 | cbreak_work | depends on the abstraction level |
| 09:56.28 | myrkraverk | amro, http://www.wowwiki.com/API_IsLinuxClient |
| 09:56.39 | jnwhiteh | !api IsLinuxClient |
| 09:56.39 | lua_bot | IsLinuxClient: Returns whether the player is using the Linux game client (http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/IsLinuxClient) |
| 09:56.43 | cbreak_work | WoW is already in a portable fashion |
| 09:56.45 | Humbedooh | I usually find that linux users are more willing to pay for decent software than windows users |
| 09:56.53 | sylvanaar | really? |
| 09:56.56 | jnwhiteh | I wonder why they've never removed that function |
| 09:56.58 | amro | cbreak_work: minus the part where the d3d renderer is miles ahead of opengl |
| 09:57.01 | myrkraverk | Humbedooh, yes, because the get all the crap for free anyway ;) |
| 09:57.04 | cbreak_work | Linux users aren't even willing to pay for a mac :( |
| 09:57.11 | Jerub | Humbedooh: i think linux users are more willing to change software if they don't like it too. |
| 09:57.18 | myrkraverk | cbreak_work, because the mac sucks? |
| 09:57.21 | cbreak_work | no |
| 09:57.30 | cbreak_work | because they are too cheap to pay for a good OS |
| 09:57.30 | jnwhiteh | perhaps they do have an internal client |
| 09:57.33 | Jerub | for instance, did you know that windows live messenger has ads in the interface? big ones that flash up while you're typing? |
| 09:57.37 | sylvanaar | linux users expect stuff for free |
| 09:57.43 | amro | cbreak_work: no, because apple overprices their shit |
| 09:57.49 | cbreak_work | not really |
| 09:57.50 | jnwhiteh | ah |
| 09:57.53 | myrkraverk | sylvanaar, not really. |
| 09:57.55 | jnwhiteh | you're confusing the mac hardware with the mac software |
| 09:57.55 | Jerub | i didn't know this. i was shocked when i found out. more shocked that people actually use it despite this. |
| 09:57.57 | amro | I'm not paying $3000 when I can get the same for $1000 |
| 09:57.58 | cbreak_work | mac os is more expensive than linux |
| 09:58.01 | jnwhiteh | their software is bargain basement |
| 09:58.08 | jnwhiteh | their hardware is another story entirely =) |
| 09:58.09 | cbreak_work | but that's because linux is really really low price |
| 09:58.28 | amro | question is, why would I want to pay for mac? |
| 09:58.28 | myrkraverk | sylvanaar, You'll find that most linux users are for less likely to pirate software than windows users. |
| 09:58.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Proditor (~Proditor@c80-217-77-195.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 09:58.42 | cbreak_work | but compared to the other commercial systems, Mac OS is very affordable |
| 09:58.44 | sylvanaar | thats because there is nothing to pirate |
| 09:58.52 | amro | sure there is |
| 09:58.59 | amro | you can run pirated windows software on wine |
| 09:59.00 | myrkraverk | sylvanaar, there is plenty to pirate. |
| 09:59.10 | cbreak_work | they could pirate OS X :/ |
| 09:59.18 | amro | no point |
| 09:59.19 | Humbedooh | hush, fanboi! |
| 09:59.24 | myrkraverk | sylvanaar, just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it isn't there. |
| 09:59.33 | sylvanaar | i suppose so |
| 09:59.35 | Humbedooh | I see no reason to get OS X :\ |
| 09:59.40 | amro | the only reason I can think of to get OS X is iPhone dev support, if you're into that |
| 09:59.48 | amro | only objective reason** |
| 09:59.50 | jnwhiteh | amro: its an amazing desktop operating system |
| 09:59.53 | sylvanaar | thats why I have OSX |
| 09:59.56 | amro | anything else is personal preference |
| 10:00.00 | jnwhiteh | and its cheap, although admittedly not as cheap as linux |
| 10:00.01 | sylvanaar | iphone dev |
| 10:00.14 | amro | jnwhiteh: I don't doubt it, but I'm perfectly satisfied with my desktop |
| 10:00.20 | myrkraverk | jnwhiteh, for the record I prefer solaris. |
| 10:00.21 | jnwhiteh | I tend to buy mac hardware/software due to the tight integration between hardware and software. |
| 10:00.29 | jnwhiteh | shit just works as a result of it, and I appreciate that. |
| 10:00.37 | myrkraverk | jnwhiteh, that's nice. |
| 10:00.50 | amro | that's tru |
| 10:01.08 | myrkraverk | and it's the same really when you buy unix servers/workstations. |
| 10:01.13 | jnwhiteh | indeed |
| 10:02.09 | amro | another thing that scares devs from releasing linux ports is the potential support problems |
| 10:02.26 | amro | but I don't get why they don't just say, we don't support this client, use at your own risk, blahblah |
| 10:02.30 | myrkraverk | amro, I think that's the only reason Blizz hasn't released a linux version. |
| 10:02.35 | Humbedooh | I don't think linux support would be much of a problem |
| 10:02.38 | amro | linux users are not used to corporate support anyway |
| 10:02.45 | amro | they would build their own support community |
| 10:02.47 | myrkraverk | True. |
| 10:02.47 | mitch0 | amro: afaik they can't do that. also, even if they did, it could lead to bad rep |
| 10:03.10 | amro | mitch0: failing that, they can also choose to support a very specific distro |
| 10:03.11 | myrkraverk | They're far more likely to release solaris or freebsd clients than linux one for that reason. ;-P |
| 10:03.17 | Humbedooh | I don't see how it could lead to bad rep - quite the opposite I'd say |
| 10:03.30 | amro | linux users certainly wouldn't complain |
| 10:03.31 | myrkraverk | amro, I'd probably take that choice. |
| 10:03.41 | mitch0 | myrkraver: too bad both have near zero desktop penetration ;) |
| 10:03.52 | myrkraverk | Support for example Ubuntu only (even though that's really vista linux) |
| 10:04.08 | myrkraverk | mitch0, you'll still find wow players using it. |
| 10:04.20 | amro | all of 4 of them, yeah |
| 10:04.22 | Humbedooh | desktop penetration...sounds...pervy |
| 10:04.23 | mitch0 | yeah ;) |
| 10:04.25 | amro | but hardly enough to justify a port |
| 10:04.26 | myrkraverk | Yes. |
| 10:04.39 | sylvanaar | i love ubuntu |
| 10:04.46 | myrkraverk | amro, True. I meant consistent platform reason. |
| 10:04.47 | mitch0 | I hateses it |
| 10:05.09 | amro | I don't get why people who don't use ubuntu hate it :/ |
| 10:05.19 | amro | doesn't affect you, move along |
| 10:05.22 | mitch0 | I tried to use it |
| 10:05.22 | myrkraverk | amro, I use it and hate it. |
| 10:05.32 | amro | that makes you a masochist |
| 10:05.38 | myrkraverk | amro, I know. |
| 10:05.39 | Humbedooh | ubuntu is a nice compromise between usability and stability imo |
| 10:05.49 | sylvanaar | i like all the OS'es I use |
| 10:05.51 | amro | I've been through all major distros |
| 10:05.59 | amro | ubuntu is the safest bet |
| 10:06.01 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-98-255-201-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 10:06.06 | mitch0 | yeah, still shite though |
| 10:06.11 | zenzio | http://verydemotivational.com/2010/09/13/demotivational-posters-recycling/ |
| 10:06.15 | sylvanaar | loves everyone |
| 10:06.16 | amro | not at all, it's great |
| 10:06.22 | mitch0 | is not |
| 10:06.24 | mitch0 | :P |
| 10:06.27 | kapipi | Its perfect. |
| 10:06.31 | Humbedooh | I don't like that they removed the ctrl + alt + backspace by default tho :\ |
| 10:06.32 | kapipi | (almost) |
| 10:06.37 | myrkraverk | If scoracle hadn't killed the opensolaris community I'd probably still be using it. |
| 10:06.37 | mitch0 | kapipi: blatant lie! |
| 10:06.40 | amro | Humbedooh: you can change that |
| 10:06.47 | amro | and tbh |
| 10:06.55 | amro | since the change I only needed to kill X once |
| 10:07.01 | zenzio | myrkraverk: you think SCO had much to do with that? |
| 10:07.04 | kapipi | mitch0: its the best OS for software developers that dont depend on MS technologies |
| 10:07.11 | kapipi | imho |
| 10:07.12 | mitch0 | kapipi: no |
| 10:07.17 | myrkraverk | I'll probably switch over to 11 when it comes out though. |
| 10:07.22 | mitch0 | freebsd is |
| 10:07.25 | myrkraverk | zenzio, I didn't come up with the term. |
| 10:07.32 | kapipi | mitch0: no |
| 10:07.34 | mitch0 | or mac |
| 10:07.40 | amro | DISTRO WAR! |
| 10:07.44 | myrkraverk | zenzio, the term came when scoralce sued google. |
| 10:08.00 | kapipi | the distro war will have to wait, its time to go home and eat dinner |
| 10:08.01 | Humbedooh | pft, apple and microsoft are both socialist dictators when it comes to software |
| 10:08.15 | zenzio | myrkraverk: wait, is that a person? I read it as a combination of SCO and Oracle |
| 10:08.16 | amro | er, socialist? |
| 10:08.24 | amro | is that why they charge so much? |
| 10:08.29 | Humbedooh | totalitarian socialists! |
| 10:08.41 | amro | wouldn't that mean free handouts? |
| 10:08.47 | myrkraverk | zenzio, no, SCOracle is the term people use to refer to "evil Oracle" after they sued Google. |
| 10:08.55 | Humbedooh | no that'd just mean the government controls everything :p |
| 10:09.08 | amro | and gives you free bread and milk ; |
| 10:09.11 | amro | :) |
| 10:09.14 | zenzio | myrkraverk: why drag SCO into that? Yes, they were idiots, but Oracle are sufficient without adding SCO |
| 10:09.36 | myrkraverk | zenzio, I guess so. I *still* did not make up the term. |
| 10:09.38 | Humbedooh | speaking of bread, afk! |
| 10:11.29 | myrkraverk | I'm just thinking, I can't unit test a macro addon without violating the automaton ToS, can I? |
| 10:11.48 | jnwhiteh | huh? |
| 10:11.52 | mikma | figure it out yourself, pro coder |
| 10:11.53 | jnwhiteh | you can unit test an addon with another addon |
| 10:11.53 | jnwhiteh | so no. |
| 10:11.57 | jnwhiteh | there's no issue doing that |
| 10:12.34 | myrkraverk | Just an idle thought. |
| 10:12.36 | mitch0 | also, nobody cares if you automate testing |
| 10:13.03 | myrkraverk | mitch0, I guess not. |
| 10:13.09 | jnwhiteh | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:13.13 | amro | except tin foil hats who are afraid your automaton will murder them in their sleep |
| 10:13.30 | amro | jnwhiteh is a tinfoil hat? |
| 10:13.37 | myrkraverk | oh, talking about tinfoil hats. Are the ones in wow real? |
| 10:13.42 | mikma | jnwhiteh: automate your ass in here already! |
| 10:13.44 | myrkraverk | Or was it just a joke? |
| 10:14.41 | mitch0 | btw, I'd let everyone fly in azeroth, just have air patrol shoot you to shreads if you do it without a flying pass :P |
| 10:14.44 | myrkraverk | Oh, fictional according to wowwiki ;( |
| 10:15.05 | mitch0 | s/badspelling/goodspelling/ |
| 10:15.39 | amro | mitch0: that's nowhere near evil enough. I'd let them fly, but as soon as they land, they get teleported back to where they took off from |
| 10:16.24 | mitch0 | eh, like spirit res :( |
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| 10:40.31 | *** join/#wowuidev msoul (msoul@meridian.ipv6.sosdg.org) |
| 10:42.28 | jnwhiteh | silent irc is silent. |
| 10:42.53 | zenzio | Yes, quite. |
| 10:43.04 | jnwhiteh | 15 channels, and no traffic on any of them |
| 10:43.08 | zenzio | (probably not much to go on - but name hat quote!) |
| 10:43.09 | jnwhiteh | well, there is #Cyanogenmod |
| 10:43.18 | jnwhiteh | but there's so much fapping in there, I can't really count it. |
| 10:43.19 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 10:43.24 | jnwhiteh | sioraiocht: eww, get off. |
| 10:43.39 | zenzio | jnwhiteh: they're very happy with their mod or something in there? |
| 10:43.52 | jnwhiteh | no, they're just 14-25 year old males |
| 10:43.59 | jnwhiteh | fapping happens in these situations |
| 10:44.10 | sioraiocht | ? |
| 10:44.25 | zenzio | aha |
| 10:50.03 | Jerub | second ninja this week. |
| 10:50.13 | zenzio | PUG? |
| 10:50.15 | Jerub | yep |
| 10:50.17 | Jerub | PUG RL |
| 10:50.31 | Jerub | i knew it was bad news but it's hours before reset so was willing to risk it |
| 10:50.41 | jnwhiteh | what did they take? |
| 10:56.47 | Jerub | trash |
| 10:57.18 | Jerub | uh, a crussader trophy, leather and mail, it was a warrior. |
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| 10:57.29 | Jerub | he just said "fuk you" and left raid. |
| 11:09.53 | Spejnar | haha |
| 11:10.05 | Spejnar | for some reason ninjas seem to steal anything, not shit they actually need |
| 11:10.25 | unfo- | money money money, it's a rich man's world. |
| 11:11.19 | the-golem | lol |
| 11:12.04 | haste | yes, amazing how rich they'll get with 30G at a time |
| 11:12.10 | Spejnar | oh yes |
| 11:13.10 | Spejnar | ppl are willing to buy the shit from the ninjaers tho, just encouraging shit like that |
| 11:15.20 | Jerub | this guy was just reacting emotionally i think. |
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| 11:20.25 | unfo- | haste, you are implying that because it is stupid, this could not be the ninjas motivation? |
| 11:20.39 | unfo- | haste, i.e. you are implying that ninjas don't do stupid things |
| 11:21.03 | unfo- | which i strongly object to ;) |
| 11:21.13 | haste | no, I'm implying that it's really stupid way to get rich |
| 11:21.40 | unfo- | yeeeeeeees? you see the correlation between being a ninja and doing stupid shit?-) |
| 11:22.50 | *** join/#wowuidev myrkraverk (~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk) |
| 11:23.04 | myrkraverk | What event do I use to play a sound when I enter shadow trance? |
| 11:24.19 | haste | UNIT_AURA |
| 11:24.31 | myrkraverk | thank you. |
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| 11:40.54 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 11:41.32 | Maldivia | myrkraverk: alternative, you can look at the event for the "power aura" like feature for 4.0, which shouldn't fire as often as UNIT_AURA (since UNIT_AURA is fired when any aura for any unit in your party/raid changes) |
| 11:43.17 | myrkraverk | Maldivia, is that something I can use on live now? |
| 11:43.41 | Maldivia | there is something on live as well, a part of the floating text |
| 11:43.56 | haste | COMBAT_TEXT_UPDATE or so |
| 11:44.02 | haste | check wowprogramming or the framexml |
| 11:44.06 | Maldivia | but can't remember if that event only fires if combat text is enabled |
| 11:44.16 | haste | it's a event |
| 11:44.39 | Maldivia | haste: yeah, but the event could be dependant on the cvar setting that enables the combat text |
| 11:45.29 | haste | it shouldn't be |
| 11:45.31 | Maldivia | just like the filtered combatlog event is dependant on the filters set |
| 11:50.52 | myrkraverk | haste, Right, I will. |
| 11:52.26 | industrial | Ok I've got some language mismatch |
| 11:52.46 | industrial | I'm googling for 'electric scooter' but not one of those dumb foldable small things |
| 11:53.06 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi_dev (~chris@c-68-36-37-83.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 11:53.11 | industrial | I mean these |
| 11:53.13 | industrial | http://www.freewebs.com/scooter-tuning-gelderland/fotosvanledenenhunbrom.htm |
| 11:53.19 | industrial | but with electric engines |
| 11:53.29 | industrial | I just wanna know what the state of the art is on those right now :P |
| 11:54.45 | industrial | what's the correct term? |
| 11:54.59 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 11:59.31 | Humbedooh | smurfmobile would be the correct term |
| 12:01.41 | industrial | Humbedooh: google disagrees |
| 12:07.30 | myrkraverk | Out of curiosity, can addons include mpq files for images and sound? |
| 12:07.46 | jnwhiteh | nope. |
| 12:07.49 | jnwhiteh | you don't need to |
| 12:07.52 | jnwhiteh | just include the images and sound files |
| 12:07.59 | A-KO | hmmm |
| 12:08.00 | myrkraverk | Ok. |
| 12:08.04 | A-KO | light peak versus usb 3 |
| 12:08.08 | A-KO | should be an interesting debate |
| 12:08.32 | foxlit | So why can't I string.dump some pretty trivial functions? |
| 12:08.42 | foxlit | Things like http://wow.go-hero.net/framexml/12942/WatchFrame.lua#1290 , for instance |
| 12:09.13 | jnwhiteh | foxlit: no idea, what does it say? |
| 12:09.20 | foxlit | "unable to dump given function" |
| 12:09.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 12:10.06 | jnwhiteh | perhaps it won't allow you to dump secure functions? |
| 12:10.15 | foxlit | Then I wouldn't be able to dump anything |
| 12:10.29 | jnwhiteh | I'm asking if that's the case =) |
| 12:10.36 | foxlit | Nah, it's only very few things |
| 12:10.53 | jnwhiteh | otherwise, I'm not really sure. Blizzard altered the implementation of string.dump (or perhaps not) so it's very tough to say. |
| 12:11.35 | foxlit | Can still dump the same code in the interpreter -- or if I add it as part of my addon |
| 12:11.43 | jnwhiteh | yeah, dunno. |
| 12:11.48 | foxlit | So something weird is going on somewhere |
| 12:12.35 | zenzio | I must have missed something; what is string.dump? The same as/similar to DevTools' /dump ? |
| 12:12.44 | jnwhiteh | not at all |
| 12:12.59 | jnwhiteh | it returns a string that can be used to re-build the function (using string.load) |
| 12:13.09 | jnwhiteh | lua> string.dump(pp) |
| 12:13.10 | lua_bot | jnwhiteh: LuaQ |
| 12:13.54 | jnwhiteh | lua> x = string.dump(pp); for i = 1, #x do print(string.format("\\%x", x:sub(i, i))) end; |
| 12:13.54 | lua_bot | jnwhiteh: luabot:1: bad argument #2 to 'format' (number expected, got string) |
| 12:14.16 | foxlit | "%q" would solve things easier |
| 12:14.23 | jnwhiteh | lua> string.format("%q", string.dump(pp)) |
| 12:14.23 | lua_bot | 000000000000@modules/luabot_sandbox.lua000í000000000ñ000000000000000000000A000000000000000000Á@000000% |
| 12:14.23 | lua_bot | 000FÀ |
| 12:14.23 | lua_bot | Ä |
| 12:14.23 | lua_bot | 000000 |
| 12:14.23 | jnwhiteh | aye |
| 12:14.28 | jnwhiteh | dunno why I did it in such a weird way =) |
| 12:18.04 | foxlit | Weird choice of functions to fail on, too: BagSlotButton_OnModifiedClick, PaperDollFrameItemFlyoutButton_OnClick, QuestLog_UpdateQuestDetails, SpellButton_OnModifiedClick, WatchFrameItem_OnShow |
| 12:18.24 | jnwhiteh | very odd! |
| 12:22.26 | Humbedooh | I smell a Gnomish conspiracy theory forming |
| 12:30.57 | *** join/#wowuidev mono|strigoy (~postid08@89.112.46.62.pppoe.eltel.net) |
| 12:34.49 | zenzio | I'm quite perplexed by the sudden reduction in WoW scam e-mails landing in my Gmail... used to be roughly 1/3 of the spam, now it's more like 1/30 |
| 12:36.01 | *** join/#wowuidev `Olorin (~chatzilla@87-194-223-111.bethere.co.uk) |
| 12:36.16 | foxlit | zenzio: http://www.go-hero.net/box/gmail.png << don't despair |
| 12:37.05 | Humbedooh | "Are your tusks brittle and dull? Buy Xinhuan Herbal Tea and get back your mojo!" |
| 12:38.23 | zenzio | okay, which one of you is Dave? http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Davecpp.aspx |
| 12:38.58 | zenzio | foxlit: hm... so how come I don't get many anymore? Am I not special enough? :( |
| 12:39.14 | foxlit | zenzio: oddly enough, nothing new since 9/9 either |
| 12:39.27 | `Olorin | Still cant seem to get my drop down menu's working: UIDropDownMenu_SetSelectedValue(this.owner, DDItemSlotMenu.value) was the working code on live, changing this to self causes lau errors, is the owner its refering to the DD menu itself or something else? |
| 12:39.59 | foxlit | owner is your UIDropDownTemplate-inheriting frame |
| 12:40.23 | foxlit | ^Menu in there somewhere |
| 12:40.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.30.166) |
| 12:40.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:41.01 | zenzio | tickles Lopeppeppy |
| 12:41.09 | `Olorin | Thanks foxlit, thats what I did change it to and no error but it always ends up setting the last menu option regardless of which menu option i select |
| 12:41.53 | foxlit | then one wonders whether DDItemSlotMenu.value actually reflects the value of the selected item at any point |
| 12:42.06 | foxlit | But, honestly, _SetSelectedValue should just get removed |
| 12:42.35 | foxlit | Nobody keeps actual values on dropdowns anyway. |
| 12:43.31 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, zenzio. *hugs* |
| 12:43.39 | zenzio | :) |
| 12:44.32 | `Olorin | hmm, I'm wondering if my info.func line is correct or that its not passing the correct info to the OnClick function |
| 12:45.02 | `Olorin | anyone got a length of rope :) |
| 12:46.56 | Lopeppeppy | I do, Olorin! |
| 12:47.21 | `Olorin | evil person.... thats not the answer your supposed to give. |
| 12:47.35 | Lopeppeppy | Never doubt the evil of a redhead. |
| 12:48.01 | zenzio | hey, you never know when rope will come in handy |
| 12:48.05 | `Olorin | well I shant now |
| 12:53.29 | Kraps | i ding today |
| 12:53.47 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~alestane@166.137.136.124) |
| 12:53.47 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 12:53.59 | Olorin | Are beta servers up? |
| 12:55.48 | Kraps | http://store.steampowered.com/steamaccount/addfunds/ |
| 12:58.13 | Olorin | I'm sure they'll enjoy the interest gained on the cash before you spend it |
| 12:59.11 | zenzio | honestly? Better them than the filthy banks who do the same |
| 12:59.43 | zenzio | transferring money to someone instantly? We can't do that, we'd lose the interest - let's wait until tomorrow! |
| 13:01.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Guardix (~Martin@0x5da165ee.hinqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 13:03.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~Thunder_C@adsl-71-130-218-221.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 13:03.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~Thunder_C@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 13:05.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Wimpeh (~IceChat7@c83-252-63-142.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 13:05.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 13:05.57 | Olorin | Well here in the UK the banks were bailed out by the government/tax payers and now they are being allowed to make huge profits again... only winners are the bankers who keep their jobs/bonuses and the shareholders |
| 13:07.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Wimpeh (~IceChat7@c83-252-63-142.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 13:07.14 | Kraps | well we started that so HA! |
| 13:07.29 | Kraps | wait thats not a good thing |
| 13:07.50 | *** join/#wowuidev bediko_ (~chatzilla@93.215.131.121) |
| 13:08.27 | Olorin | Nope but what can ya do, buy shares in banks I guess.. |
| 13:09.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~resa1983@bas11-toronto63-1088752644.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 13:12.52 | alestane | Credit unions. |
| 13:13.14 | alestane | At least that way you're also a shareholder. |
| 13:14.07 | Lopeppeppy | Mason jars. |
| 13:15.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~asmith@69.73.16.202) |
| 13:16.02 | alestane | ...okay, I've been reading too much Steve Stirling. The first thing that made me think was stockpiling hooch as barter. |
| 13:23.20 | Arrowmaster | im cold |
| 13:23.51 | mitch0 | I'm tired |
| 13:25.09 | industrial | Ok so since I'm all new with this twitter thing (no, really, I purposedly removed my account from 2006 a few years back and now created one again to follow news from people I know IRL.); |
| 13:25.36 | industrial | Can I get this in RSS form instead of reading it on twitter.com ? I'd love to have it in my google reader |
| 13:25.52 | Lopeppeppy | I think so, indie... |
| 13:25.53 | industrial | this way I can also filter the content itself; I don't particularly care about lots of retweets |
| 13:26.00 | industrial | and each of them appear as 1 update |
| 13:26.04 | zenzio | http://support.twitter.com/groups/31-twitter-basics/topics/111-features/articles/15361-how-to-find-your-rss-feed |
| 13:26.06 | industrial | which makes me click it |
| 13:26.07 | industrial | :P |
| 13:26.14 | Lopeppeppy | http://davemccomb.com/reading-twitter-through-rss-reader |
| 13:26.19 | zenzio | I was first! |
| 13:26.28 | Lopeppeppy | :P |
| 13:26.30 | industrial | the google is string within these two |
| 13:26.34 | industrial | string, even |
| 13:26.39 | industrial | ! strong ! |
| 13:26.46 | Lopeppeppy | We import twitter feeds to our web pages as RSS all the time, it's fun. |
| 13:32.58 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/1120634035 |
| 13:35.48 | Ackis | Adys: who did up the hand video on mmo-champ? |
| 13:36.06 | Adys | lemme see |
| 13:36.34 | Adys | some dude |
| 13:36.35 | Ackis | they missed an opportunity to use some Adams Family music |
| 13:37.19 | Arrowmaster | im cold |
| 13:37.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (~Thunder_C@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 13:37.49 | Ackis | Arrowmaster: warm up with some Reach |
| 13:37.59 | Arrowmaster | i will soon |
| 13:38.18 | Arrowmaster | im going to go pickup my legendary edition when the store opens in 20 minutes |
| 13:38.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Borgleader (Borgleader@132.207.245.231) |
| 13:38.37 | Arrowmaster | want to do legendary coop after that? |
| 13:38.42 | Arrowmaster | unless you suck that is |
| 13:38.59 | Ackis | I suck |
| 13:39.07 | Ackis | and I'm not off work for 8-9ish hours |
| 13:42.44 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (~User@99-99-194-150.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 13:43.02 | Lopeppeppy | pouncelates Jelly. Take that! |
| 13:45.49 | |Jelly| | Oof! |
| 13:46.08 | |Jelly| | rears back and engages Peppy in an epic pillow fight! |
| 13:47.41 | Ackis | is spirit being removed in cata? |
| 13:47.56 | Ressy | no |
| 13:48.14 | Ressy | lots of spirit on healing items. |
| 13:48.35 | Ressy | Unless they just haven't gotten around to it.. |
| 13:48.37 | Ackis | aye that's what I see, but I thought they were removing it completely |
| 13:48.43 | Ackis | I see new items w/ spirit |
| 13:48.53 | Ackis | and they're removing divine spirit as well |
| 13:49.09 | Ressy | Yeah.. But they made it so you can remove some spirit and transfer it to crit/haste |
| 13:50.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (~ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 13:50.58 | Ackis | ah it was MP5 that's removed |
| 13:51.14 | Ackis | I saw divine spirit getting nuked and jumped to the conclusion that all spirit was gone |
| 13:53.35 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 13:54.23 | Olorin | Is it yet known what formula is being used for converting spellpower into intellect? |
| 13:54.24 | Ressy | Didn't they say before they were going to make regen based off int tho? |
| 13:54.40 | Ressy | int->sp 1:1 last I saw |
| 13:54.49 | Ackis | spellpower is removed? |
| 13:54.51 | Spejnar | anyone know how C# handles massive parses compared to well, anything else ? |
| 13:55.02 | Olorin | thats what i was left to understand Ackis |
| 13:55.08 | Ressy | yeah |
| 13:55.21 | Ressy | Its just major amounts of int now. |
| 13:55.31 | Ackis | http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/92139/staff-of-ammunae/ |
| 13:55.46 | Ressy | Thats odd. |
| 13:56.09 | Ressy | None of the quest rewards have sp on it. o.O Its all haste/crit |
| 13:57.08 | Ressy | and mastery rating |
| 13:57.20 | Ackis | that's what's been confusing me tbh |
| 13:57.50 | Ressy | http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/1690-Tailoring-Cataclysm |
| 13:57.55 | Ackis | oh man, my fiancee heard that a creative writing class has to read twilight this semester... and write a paper on why it's a bad book |
| 13:58.08 | Ressy | all the tailoring stuff is hit/crit/haste |
| 13:58.36 | Ackis | Illusionary Bag... 24 slots... I'm still using Primal Mooncloth heh |
| 13:59.05 | Ressy | I didn't know til yesterday there was a higher Herb bag.... >.< |
| 13:59.12 | Ressy | Than the Sporregar one |
| 13:59.46 | Wobin | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:00.31 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~p3lim@200.41.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 14:00.38 | Ackis | http://uk.gamespot.com/greatest-video-game-villain/vote/battle-hub/index.html vote for Dr. Breen! |
| 14:01.01 | Wobin | Ackis: http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l5wg1cryxa1qcw66ho1_500.jpg |
| 14:01.35 | Wobin | (It's not faked either =P You can go to http://iwl.me/ and do it =)) |
| 14:02.19 | alestane | That shouldn't be a difficult criticism to write, Ackis, it really is a pretty mediocre book. |
| 14:02.41 | Wobin | likens it to shooting fish in a barrel with a RPG |
| 14:03.49 | Ackis | lol Wobin |
| 14:04.08 | Ackis | alestane: I haven't read the books, don't really interest me. I watched the first movie and it was painful |
| 14:04.41 | alestane | I read the first one to see what all the fuss was about. |
| 14:05.13 | Wobin | ventures to say the movie was better than the book |
| 14:05.29 | Wobin | although |
| 14:05.31 | Wobin | tbh |
| 14:05.42 | Wobin | a book based on the movie, would be better than the original book |
| 14:07.25 | alestane | The book isn't actually awful (there's a ringing endorsement for you), but it's certainly not good. |
| 14:07.53 | alestane | I found it very 'meh.' |
| 14:08.04 | Wobin | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:08.11 | Wobin | an oldie, but a goodie |
| 14:08.33 | zenzio | with that much caps, it must be a good article! |
| 14:08.38 | Wobin | oh hell yes |
| 14:21.09 | jnwhiteh | alestane: the book is positively terrible |
| 14:21.16 | jnwhiteh | it reads like it's written by a 14 year old girl |
| 14:21.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Parnic|Work (~Parnic@66.194.172.200) |
| 14:22.15 | alestane | That's who it was written for. I was able to finish it, which is my usual benchmark line. |
| 14:22.28 | jnwhiteh | the writing is positively terrible |
| 14:22.33 | jnwhiteh | and I've read some terrible books =) |
| 14:23.17 | alestane | It's coherent. But it has a definite surfeit of superlatives. |
| 14:24.51 | Lopeppeppy | Coherent isn't enough to make it acceptable, sadly. |
| 14:24.58 | alestane | I'd never recommend it on the basis of the writing. |
| 14:25.16 | alestane | Or for any reason, really. |
| 14:26.22 | alestane | But I really just found it thoroughly unremarkable. I'm sort of mystified that it's become this phenomenon. |
| 14:26.50 | alestane | I presume marketing money must be involved. |
| 14:27.59 | Adys | Cide |
| 14:28.00 | Adys | I need help |
| 14:29.11 | Arrowmaster | im back |
| 14:29.18 | Arrowmaster | with a legendary editon of Reach! |
| 14:29.39 | Adys | actually alestane you know python right? |
| 14:30.12 | Adys | ~seen tuller |
| 14:30.15 | purl | tuller <~muffins@c-69-143-56-163.hsd1.va.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 6d 13h 16m 5s ago, saying: 'so is my theory correct in that GetItemInfo in the beta is subject to the same dynamic loading as the rest of the client?'. |
| 14:30.16 | alestane | A little. |
| 14:30.26 | Stanzilla | Arrowmaster: 200$ or so? |
| 14:30.28 | Adys | mm ok, dont worry then |
| 14:30.59 | Ackis | Arrowmaster: grats on the avatar item! :D |
| 14:31.40 | Wobin | The power of Twilight is that it is efficiently self insertable |
| 14:32.12 | Wobin | The main character is so utterly faceless and personality blank, it allows anyone to project themselves into her place |
| 14:32.29 | jnwhiteh | OMG I hate the weather |
| 14:32.41 | jnwhiteh | OMG all these people at school are trying to be my friends. I HATE THAT TOO! |
| 14:32.46 | Wobin | They spend all their time going "Oh, if -I- were Bella, I'd <insert thing here>" |
| 14:32.46 | Ackis | Wobin: I wished I could be bella |
| 14:32.48 | Ackis | moos |
| 14:32.50 | Wobin | see? |
| 14:33.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@105.58-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 14:33.21 | alestane | Her only distinguishing characteristic is her klutziness. |
| 14:33.30 | Wobin | alestane: which fits well into most teens |
| 14:33.42 | Wobin | she has to have a 'flaw' see? =P |
| 14:33.46 | jnwhiteh | haha |
| 14:33.51 | Ackis | does she sparkle?\ |
| 14:33.56 | alestane | What are you looking for, Adys? |
| 14:33.57 | Wobin | Well she does now =P |
| 14:34.09 | Wobin | Now that she's married to her one twue wuv |
| 14:34.11 | Ackis | oh she got turned into a vampire? |
| 14:34.20 | Wobin | Read that article =) |
| 14:34.22 | Lopeppeppy | OMG, you gave it all away, I hate you! *stomp stomp stomp* |
| 14:34.34 | Adys | alestane: it's pretty advanced, messing with classmethod internals |
| 14:34.47 | Ackis | I'd rather masterbate with sandpaper than read an article about twilight. |
| 14:34.48 | Wobin | and her other twue wuv is now in 'love' with her half vampire half fairie, telepathic baby |
| 14:34.58 | Wobin | Ackis: oh, it's not an approving one |
| 14:35.10 | Wobin | it's merely the reason why the book should be made into a movie |
| 14:35.16 | alestane | Probably a bit over my head still then, yeah. |
| 14:35.23 | Wobin | because it's so fucking awful, it'll be -really- good |
| 14:35.34 | jnwhiteh | yeah |
| 14:35.43 | jnwhiteh | awesome. |
| 14:36.07 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (spode@213.21.119.83) |
| 14:36.17 | jnwhiteh | Anyone interested in reading a short 1.5 page abstract for me? Just trying to get a general idea for flow and progression. |
| 14:37.23 | alestane | Or at the very least, all the rest of us can drown in a revelry of Schadenfreude as the Twifans are crushed under the weight of their beloved series' implosion of insanity. |
| 14:37.30 | Ackis | sure jnwhiteh |
| 14:37.32 | Wobin | sure |
| 14:37.53 | alestane | As long as I can read it on my phone, jnwhiteh. |
| 14:38.08 | jnwhiteh | I haven't written the conclusion yet |
| 14:38.14 | jnwhiteh | i'll PM the addy to you guys |
| 14:38.38 | jnwhiteh | Thanks guys |
| 14:39.06 | jnwhiteh | its a very rough draft, just want to make sure that a.) you're remotely interested, b.) I'm not losing you, c.) It's not out of reach. |
| 14:40.31 | alestane | I presume typos aren't the sort of feedback you're seeking right now. |
| 14:40.32 | Lopeppeppy | I'm good with abstracts, jnwhiteh. And I think as the non-technical user, I can tell you if I'm totally lost! :) |
| 14:40.58 | jnwhiteh | no, not typos |
| 14:41.13 | alestane | The CS speak is at about the limit of my existing knowledge. |
| 14:41.16 | jnwhiteh | and apologies for making you read typo-ridden shit =) |
| 14:42.27 | alestane | You said it was a draft. |
| 14:42.32 | jnwhiteh | that it is. |
| 14:42.56 | alestane | Just making sure I'm reading it through the right filters. |
| 14:44.33 | jnwhiteh | as wobin pointed out, my tenses are not regularly correct =) |
| 14:45.51 | alestane | I think the biggest concern I have reading it is that it doesn't present any issues in existing solutions that your approach avoids, but maybe that's common knowledge in the field. |
| 14:46.55 | jnwhiteh | well its not applicable in this particular paper |
| 14:47.19 | jnwhiteh | the actual software was not the exercise, the process of writing it was, and I have plenty of work from that |
| 14:47.32 | jnwhiteh | and there's little to be said about the existing methodologies. |
| 14:47.51 | Ackis | jnwhiteh: you talk about the advantage of the farm processes preventing a single connection from monopolizing, is it appropriate to state there's still an inherent issue of too many connections eating up system resources? |
| 14:48.19 | jnwhiteh | Ackis: I can address that, but its not really an issue |
| 14:48.30 | alestane | The intent of the paper and project seems clear enough. |
| 14:48.37 | jnwhiteh | goroutines are too lightweight and only one process per connection is ever open |
| 14:49.09 | jnwhiteh | and that's part of what I'll be covering in the last few paragraphs |
| 14:49.18 | Ackis | what level of detail did you want for feedback btw? I can nit pick, give high level, etc? |
| 14:49.44 | Arrowmaster | Ackis: i get an avatar item? |
| 14:49.53 | jnwhiteh | I don't need grammar, spelling or anything on that level |
| 14:49.57 | Ackis | Arrowmaster: you should with the legendary edition |
| 14:50.37 | Arrowmaster | ok once reach is done installing to hdd ill load up waypoint |
| 14:51.39 | Ackis | Arrowmaster: http://www.themexbox.com/index.php?topic=1825.0 |
| 14:56.31 | zenzelezz | "Astronomers Find Diamond Star 4km Wide - The cosmic diamond is a chunk of crystallised carbon, 4,000 km across, some 50 light-years from the Earth in the constellation Centaurus. It's the compressed heart of an old star that was once bright like our Sun but has since faded and shrunk. Astronomers have decided to call the star 'Lucy' after the Beatles song, Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds." |
| 14:56.32 | jnwhiteh | Thanks for the eyes guys. |
| 14:56.42 | zenzelezz | I wish people would stick to scientific names for stars |
| 14:57.36 | foxlit | What's a scientific name for a star? |
| 14:58.51 | zenzelezz | foxlit: sorry, scientific was the wrong word; but that scheme that gave names like... well, if only I knew an actual one |
| 15:00.14 | alestane | Most of them are named after Latin or Greek mythological figures. |
| 15:01.49 | alestane | The fainter ones have numerical designations or names taken from their documentors. |
| 15:02.13 | zenzelezz | maybe I'm thinking of supernovas |
| 15:02.39 | Arrowmaster | holy shit there are armor effects in reach, one is the legendary flame and another is the fucking grunt birthday party effect when you die |
| 15:03.32 | airtonix | grunts |
| 15:03.40 | alestane | So your server is a sort of pipelining structure, jnwhiteh? |
| 15:03.55 | airtonix | truckloads |
| 15:04.17 | alestane | Or rather, the server kit. |
| 15:04.46 | jnwhiteh | yeah, that's how it ended up |
| 15:05.12 | alestane | Interesting. |
| 15:05.16 | jnwhiteh | http://pastebin.mozilla.org/788970 |
| 15:05.27 | jnwhiteh | that's the code that corresponds to the figure shown |
| 15:05.43 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 15:05.43 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 15:06.18 | jnwhiteh | there's a type system that supports the semantics of the server, I just haven't introduced that yet. |
| 15:06.51 | alestane | Each process has a lifetime equivalent to that processing step for that connection? |
| 15:07.12 | jnwhiteh | yes, with a bit of an exception |
| 15:07.34 | jnwhiteh | the "content processes" are the only ones that accumulate |
| 15:07.56 | jnwhiteh | but they're idle due to blocking I/O until the connection hits the Output connection |
| 15:08.40 | alestane | Very discrete. What language is that in? |
| 15:08.44 | jnwhiteh | Go |
| 15:09.05 | jnwhiteh | "processes" are actually "goroutines" and are incredibly lightweight |
| 15:09.33 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-98-255-201-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:10.33 | jnwhiteh | I use the word 'process' too much in this paper. |
| 15:10.39 | alestane | So are they processes from an OS perspective, or is all the concurrency handled internally? |
| 15:10.58 | jnwhiteh | its internal |
| 15:11.05 | jnwhiteh | they're purpose-built lightweight threads |
| 15:11.35 | alestane | Reading a little about it now. |
| 15:13.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 15:16.13 | Fisker | hey jnwhiteh |
| 15:16.15 | Fisker | stares |
| 15:16.30 | alestane | Interesting. Very terse, though, if I'm looking at the right reference. |
| 15:16.49 | jnwhiteh | http://golang.org/ is the only reference =) |
| 15:17.05 | alestane | (Since apparently there's Go and Go!.) |
| 15:17.11 | jnwhiteh | haha |
| 15:22.10 | alestane | Looks like I was looking at Go!. |
| 15:23.54 | jnwhiteh | hehe |
| 15:24.59 | ckknight | Go has a lot of cool ideas |
| 15:25.04 | ckknight | I like the implicit interfaces |
| 15:25.28 | Ackis | http://failbook.failblog.org/2010/09/08/funny-facebook-fail-bieber-fever/ |
| 15:25.41 | cog|work | coughs on Fisker but has no more germs to share. only phlegm. |
| 15:27.01 | jnwhiteh | ckknight: I _love_ interfaces, they're so nice to work with. |
| 15:27.22 | jnwhiteh | there's a few things I don't like.. but it has the concurrency primitives I need, so it's the right research tool for me right now. |
| 15:28.55 | Ackis | Arrowmaster: did you get that avatar item? noticed you have a halo helmet now :P |
| 15:29.35 | Arrowmaster | i did the item is a prop |
| 15:29.41 | nicoli_s | Ackis:you should be punished for mentioning he who should not be named |
| 15:29.52 | nicoli_s | people dont realize that he wants to be a meme, so as to make more money |
| 15:30.09 | Ackis | lua> for i=1,100000,1 do print("nicoli_s: Halo Reach lulz") end |
| 15:30.09 | lua_bot | Ackis: nicoli_s: Halo Reach lulz, nicoli_s: Halo Reach lulz, nicoli_s: Halo Reach lulz, nicoli_s: Halo Reach lulz, nicoli_s: Halo Reach lulz, nicoli_s: Halo Reach lulz, nicoli_s: Halo Reach lulz, nicoli_s: Halo Reach lulz, nicoli_s: Halo Reach lulz, nicoli_s: Halo Reach lulz, nicoli_s: Halo Reach lulz, nic... (result truncated) |
| 15:30.12 | Ackis | :P |
| 15:30.25 | nicoli_s | i was gonna buy it last night but fell asleep :( |
| 15:30.30 | Ackis | heh |
| 15:30.33 | Ackis | I don't have my copy yet |
| 15:31.01 | cog|work | i haven't done much with go, but the one thing that bugs me is the make function... |
| 15:32.36 | jnwhiteh | cog|work: they're getting rid of either make or new, I'm not sure which one. |
| 15:32.47 | jnwhiteh | cog|work: ooc, what bothers you about it? |
| 15:33.04 | cog|work | it just feels a bit hackish |
| 15:33.19 | jnwhiteh | any more than 'new'? =) |
| 15:33.26 | jnwhiteh | in other languages? |
| 15:33.44 | Ackis | damn you cog|work |
| 15:33.44 | cog|work | i really like C++'s philosophy of being able to treat user-defined types the same way as built-in ones |
| 15:33.47 | Ackis | hackish is NOT a word |
| 15:34.02 | jnwhiteh | cog|work: how is that relevant here? |
| 15:34.06 | jnwhiteh | I'm abit confused |
| 15:34.08 | cog|work | make is too special-case-y |
| 15:34.08 | Ackis | but it does ping me :( |
| 15:34.12 | jnwhiteh | no its not |
| 15:34.14 | cog|work | jnwhiteh: it's a nit pick |
| 15:34.21 | cog|work | and like i said i haven't done much with go |
| 15:34.25 | jnwhiteh | every single time you need to make a reference value, you use make |
| 15:34.31 | jnwhiteh | that's built-in types, and user types |
| 15:34.33 | jnwhiteh | its a malloc |
| 15:35.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (~Robsato@wetering.xs4all.nl) |
| 15:35.50 | cog|work | i wouldn't doubt i misunderstood something my first couple reads through the docs... |
| 15:36.09 | jnwhiteh | i suspect that's the case, if you inferred there was a difference between built-in types and user types :p |
| 15:37.18 | cog|work | hmmm... might've been something more map-specific |
| 15:37.26 | cog|work | who knows?! =) |
| 15:37.36 | jnwhiteh | its always make(T) =) |
| 15:37.39 | jnwhiteh | where T is a type |
| 15:37.42 | cog|work | tries to get his brain back in gear after a few days of le sick |
| 15:37.57 | Fisker | jnwhiteh |
| 15:38.09 | cog|work | coughs on Fisker |
| 15:38.22 | alestane | I like the switch to implicitly bounded controls and explicitly bounded blocks. |
| 15:38.35 | cog|work | mourns the loss of Duff's Device |
| 15:38.42 | Fisker | stop it |
| 15:38.43 | Fisker | jerks |
| 15:38.44 | Fisker | :( |
| 15:39.31 | nicoli_s | Ackis:we'll have to do a death match when you get reach, which SHOULD be tonight |
| 15:40.30 | Fisker | hey nicoli_s |
| 15:40.38 | Fisker | i sucked :( |
| 15:40.44 | Fisker | I rushed a zerg |
| 15:40.57 | Fisker | and then for some reason i attacked a drone and lost it |
| 15:41.04 | Fisker | so i had to get another probe to build my gateways |
| 15:41.06 | Fisker | derp derp |
| 15:41.07 | Fisker | :( |
| 15:41.19 | Ackis | nicoli_s: I might be doing co-op campaign for a bit tonight, not sure what I'm doing tbh |
| 15:42.33 | nicoli_s | well then we should do some co-op campaign, ill be poicking it up after work |
| 15:47.35 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_atwork (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 15:48.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~chatzilla@99-92-174-69.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:48.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 15:48.18 | Lunessa | station |
| 15:48.26 | Arrowmaster | legendary is hard |
| 15:48.51 | ckknight | Brutal is hard |
| 15:48.56 | cog|work | station |
| 15:49.09 | cog|work | tekkub is hard |
| 15:49.29 | Lunessa | ... |
| 15:50.18 | Ackis | Arrowmaster: get past the first mission |
| 15:50.20 | Ackis | ? |
| 15:50.24 | Arrowmaster | on it now |
| 15:50.47 | Ackis | the achievement for completing the entire campaign solo on legendary will be one I never get :( |
| 15:50.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (~Creek@67-197-1-37.rh1.dyn.cm.comporium.net) |
| 15:51.25 | foxlit | "new flash bug being exploited for drive-by downloads, patch in two weeks" |
| 15:51.26 | foxlit | meh. |
| 15:52.22 | Lunessa | go Adobe, it's your birthday. You fuck up the internet, go Adobe. |
| 15:53.40 | Lopeppeppy | gets Lunessa a birthday suit |
| 15:53.48 | foxlit | http://www.go-hero.net/box/os.png << wonder how I could force chrome to use the same thing |
| 15:53.55 | Lunessa | How you doing? |
| 15:54.17 | jnwhiteh | foxlit: what's that using? |
| 15:54.25 | jnwhiteh | ff obviously |
| 15:54.25 | foxlit | opensearch suggestions |
| 15:54.28 | jnwhiteh | but what plugin |
| 15:54.28 | jnwhiteh | cool! |
| 15:54.30 | *** join/#wowuidev bediko_ (~chatzilla@93.215.131.121) |
| 15:55.11 | jnwhiteh | By providing an OpenSearch description document (OSDD), you enable Google Chrome to include your site in the list of search engines in the browser. For more information about OpenSearch, please visit http://www.opensearch.org. |
| 15:55.26 | jnwhiteh | but I think that just adds it to the dropdown. |
| 15:55.37 | *** join/#wowuidev bediko__ (~chatzilla@93.215.131.121) |
| 15:55.45 | jnwhiteh | perhaps I'm wrong =) |
| 15:55.47 | Maldivia | foxlit: add it to googles searchengine list, set a keyword, and prefix your search with the keyword? |
| 15:55.56 | Fisker | fuck that |
| 15:56.01 | foxlit | Maldivia: yes, but the main point is autocomplete |
| 15:56.38 | Fisker | what search engine is it? |
| 15:57.21 | foxlit | Maldivia: (what you suggest does work, but you basically have to type out your query and hit enter before seeing any results) |
| 15:58.04 | Maldivia | foxlit: I'm getting results just fine in the suggestion box in chrome |
| 15:58.16 | Adys | did you know gmail rotates picture thumbnails in atttachments so that they show up correctly? |
| 15:58.16 | foxlit | Maldivia: from google, presumably? :) |
| 15:58.20 | nicoli_s | meh, people hacking in reach already :( |
| 15:58.43 | Arrowmaster | hacking how |
| 15:59.12 | Fisker | who cares nicoli_s ? |
| 15:59.14 | Adys | foxlit: opensearch supports suggestions |
| 15:59.22 | Adys | google uses it for their search suggestions |
| 15:59.39 | Adys | afaik wowhead uses it too |
| 16:00.02 | jnwhiteh | I could set up wowprogramming.com to do it |
| 16:00.06 | jnwhiteh | would just need to look at the OS specs |
| 16:00.10 | nicoli_s | Fisker:i do, i play halo |
| 16:00.12 | jnwhiteh | should be really quick as well |
| 16:00.21 | nicoli_s | Arrowmaster:probably using hacked 360's to do all sorts of things |
| 16:00.43 | foxlit | Adys: basically, my concern is that there's no obvious way to add an OS engine into Chrome |
| 16:00.47 | Arrowmaster | JTAG'd |
| 16:00.51 | nicoli_s | yah |
| 16:00.53 | Adys | foxlit: they're added automatically |
| 16:00.55 | jnwhiteh | foxlit: I linked you to how to do it. |
| 16:00.56 | Fisker | you shouldn't nicoli_s |
| 16:01.02 | foxlit | Adys: except when they're not |
| 16:01.03 | jnwhiteh | You add the opensearch spec file |
| 16:01.12 | foxlit | jnwhiteh: it works in Firefox. |
| 16:01.16 | Adys | foxlit: then you can go in options and manage search engines |
| 16:01.26 | jnwhiteh | foxlit: By providing an OpenSearch description document (OSDD), you enable Google Chrome to include your site in the list of search engines in the browser. For more information about OpenSearch, please visit http://www.opensearch.org. |
| 16:01.26 | Fisker | what are they hacking nicoli_s ? |
| 16:01.37 | foxlit | jnwhiteh: And I do that. |
| 16:01.45 | jnwhiteh | and it doesn't work? |
| 16:01.47 | foxlit | Adys: which lets you spell out the relevant search URL, which isn't quite the same thing |
| 16:02.08 | foxlit | I suspect it remembers that I've removed it while debugging, and so is refusing to automatically add it again |
| 16:02.48 | Adys | foxlit: you can figure that out by grepping your site name in prefs file |
| 16:04.38 | foxlit | Adys: which is where, exactly? :) |
| 16:04.45 | nicoli_s | Fisker:dunno, just read some vague news story about it |
| 16:06.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@d057052.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 16:07.11 | Adys | foxlit: preferences, search engines, "manage" |
| 16:08.03 | foxlit | Is that the same dialog as right clicking on the address bar and selecting "Edit Search Engines"? |
| 16:08.20 | Legorol | This is strange... why is the game letting a druid roll Need on cloth in a level 50 LFD group? |
| 16:08.28 | Adys | foxlit: prolly |
| 16:08.31 | Legorol | does the armor-class restriction only apply at 80 or something? |
| 16:08.33 | Adys | yeah it is |
| 16:09.08 | Shirik | Want a blast from the past? |
| 16:09.15 | Shirik | Today's featured article on Wikipedia: Rosetta Stone |
| 16:09.21 | Shirik | What it looked like 10 years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rosetta_Stone&oldid=279223 |
| 16:09.57 | amro | I like the old one better |
| 16:10.06 | Adys | yeah |
| 16:10.10 | Adys | c'est plus comme avant |
| 16:10.10 | Adys | etc |
| 16:10.37 | Shirik | ain't no french on the rosetta stone! |
| 16:11.04 | Legorol | Adys: ok this is totally messed up, it let me Need on leather on my mage |
| 16:11.13 | Legorol | the loot system is clearly set to NbG |
| 16:11.22 | Legorol | i shouldn't be able to win that over a druid |
| 16:11.28 | Adys | Legorol: happens, iirc race condition against hotfix tables |
| 16:12.09 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (spode@213.21.119.83) |
| 16:12.13 | Legorol | *blink* would you mind translating to English please? |
| 16:12.50 | Jamash | A wizard did it |
| 16:13.19 | Adys | Legorol: Ok, basically |
| 16:13.38 | Adys | need options are set in the item data, sent to the client |
| 16:13.38 | Adys | but |
| 16:13.50 | Adys | the game only looks at it once the item is cached |
| 16:14.16 | Adys | sometimes, with a bit of lag, the game will not wait for the item to cache properly to show the item you're rolling for |
| 16:14.27 | Adys | resulting in you being able to roll need unconditionally |
| 16:14.38 | Adys | the server doesn't actually check whether you're allowed to roll on it |
| 16:14.42 | Adys | so shit hits the fan |
| 16:15.02 | Jamash | lulz ensue? |
| 16:16.21 | Legorol | Adys: that sounds like a client-side issue though |
| 16:16.38 | Legorol | and why would it apply to every item for every member of the group for all bosses? |
| 16:17.01 | Adys | that sounds like a different issue |
| 16:17.07 | Legorol | 'tis what i thought |
| 16:17.30 | amro | lack of pro coders imo. |
| 16:17.32 | Legorol | the loot system was clearly NbG, greyed and unchangable |
| 16:17.49 | Legorol | we could all need on anything we wanted, surreal |
| 16:17.51 | Legorol | ah well |
| 16:18.01 | amro | more like old school |
| 16:20.36 | Legorol | except that in old school, people didn't QQ over loot as much as they do now |
| 16:21.40 | amro | sure they did |
| 16:21.46 | amro | there just weren't as many people :P |
| 16:22.02 | Legorol | :) |
| 16:22.34 | Shirik | I fail |
| 16:22.38 | Shirik | I preordered Halo Reach |
| 16:22.41 | Shirik | and shipped it to the wrong place |
| 16:23.04 | *** join/#wowuidev nifty (~nifty@5.223.189.109.customer.cdi.no) |
| 16:23.15 | Ackis | lol |
| 16:23.44 | erikd | did blizzard enable addons in the beta client now? |
| 16:23.57 | nevcairiel | thats so last week |
| 16:24.15 | erikd | i figured that'd be bigger news, apparently it slipped past me :) |
| 16:26.24 | amro | [17:22] <Shirik> I preordered Halo Reach <- that's the fail right there |
| 16:26.30 | Shirik | no |
| 16:27.18 | amro | consoles are for RPGs, adventure games, and mario |
| 16:27.33 | amro | anything else -> PC |
| 16:27.42 | Lopeppeppy | I finally gave away my ancient Xbox. No more consoles for Peppy. |
| 16:27.45 | Arrowmaster | who wants to do reach coop on legendary? i want the achievement for legendary done before midnight tonight eastern |
| 16:28.16 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 16:28.21 | Ackis | Arrowmaster: isn't the cheev for doing it solo? |
| 16:28.23 | Shirik | wtf is this |
| 16:28.26 | Shirik | I can't even get on WoW |
| 16:28.27 | Arrowmaster | there are two |
| 16:28.35 | Arrowmaster | one for legendary and one for legendary solo |
| 16:28.48 | Ackis | ah |
| 16:30.57 | Arrowmaster | nicoli_s: whats your gamertag? |
| 16:32.59 | Legorol | OMG, Game has more stock of Cata CE! |
| 16:33.10 | Legorol | This is ... impossible, but amazing. I didn't miss out afterall |
| 16:34.15 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:36.38 | nicoli_s | Arrowmaster:Sankle |
| 16:37.10 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Mobile (~AndChat@215.sub-97-211-96.myvzw.com) |
| 16:37.17 | sylvanaar_atwork | whats the current beta framexml 12942? |
| 16:37.39 | sylvanaar_atwork | ehm i mean build |
| 16:37.44 | Ackis | everyone on my friends list is playing reach, except for the dude with 270k GS who is placing Ice Age |
| 16:38.03 | nicoli_s | not me! |
| 16:38.20 | Ackis | you're not online :P |
| 16:38.48 | nicoli_s | i should be! |
| 16:38.55 | TC-Mobile | Why is there no better email client for android thanthe default one? |
| 16:38.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Sliker (~ponies@5e0b7430.bb.sky.com) |
| 16:39.03 | nicoli_s | i should have taken today off work, not because of reach but because i hate bug fixing |
| 16:39.39 | Ackis | wowstead? |
| 16:39.57 | nicoli_s | ayuh |
| 16:40.29 | Arrowmaster | mission 3 is fucking hard |
| 16:40.48 | Legorol | TC-Mobile: and the default one sucks big time :( |
| 16:40.54 | nicoli_s | Arrowmaster:what difficiltuy? |
| 16:41.00 | Ackis | rookie |
| 16:41.03 | Arrowmaster | legendary |
| 16:41.17 | nicoli_s | nice, ill probably do one step down |
| 16:41.55 | Shirik | FUCK YOU ACKIS |
| 16:42.06 | Ackis | Shirik: ? |
| 16:42.08 | Shirik | My copy of reach got sent 3000 miles away from me :( |
| 16:42.16 | Ackis | :( |
| 16:42.23 | nicoli_s | ouch |
| 16:42.32 | nicoli_s | Shirik:whats yer gamer tag? |
| 16:42.35 | TC-Mobile | Legorol: agreed :( |
| 16:42.38 | Shirik | foxswift |
| 16:42.48 | Shirik | dictionary names ftw |
| 16:43.03 | Ackis | Shirik: you're foxswift? |
| 16:43.08 | Shirik | yes? |
| 16:43.08 | Ackis | wow |
| 16:43.12 | Shirik | ? |
| 16:43.18 | Ackis | I thought it was foxlit |
| 16:43.25 | Legorol | what site/system/game are you guys chatting about? |
| 16:43.26 | Shirik | >.> |
| 16:43.33 | nicoli_s | Legorol:halo reach on 360 |
| 16:43.34 | Ackis | xbox 360 |
| 16:43.39 | Legorol | k |
| 16:44.08 | Arrowmaster | i cant even get a checkpoint on misson 3 |
| 16:45.15 | Arrowmaster | the elites will not fucking die |
| 16:45.29 | Lopeppeppy | Ouchies. |
| 16:46.15 | Legorol | ok, this sucks: whilst i was corpserunning, my LFD group disbanded. This removed me from the LFD system. Once I returned to the dungeon and ressed, I am no longer able to be teleported back to the place where I queued up from. |
| 16:46.28 | Legorol | I was questing in Azshara, and now I'm standing in front of ST. This really sucks. |
| 16:46.46 | Ackis | wow: 1 Legorol: 0 |
| 16:47.55 | Legorol | but nothing can ruin my mood... CE pre-ordered today! |
| 16:48.39 | Legorol | having said that, is it just me or has Blizz released much more of the CE than usual? |
| 16:48.42 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth (~triti@dhcp-128-83-186-188.its.utexas.edu) |
| 16:48.43 | malreth | kicks Fisker in the head |
| 16:48.44 | nicoli_s | do you have to have lich king to get cata? |
| 16:48.57 | Legorol | yes |
| 16:49.00 | nicoli_s | boo |
| 16:49.04 | Lopeppeppy | Yik |
| 16:49.05 | Legorol | how would you get to 80 otherwise? |
| 16:49.17 | nicoli_s | i want to get back into it, but i cant justify spending nearly 100 bucks to play |
| 16:49.25 | Legorol | 100 bucks?? |
| 16:49.32 | Legorol | you should be able to pick up wotlk for much less |
| 16:49.50 | nicoli_s | well its 60 for cata right? so itd be at least like 85 |
| 16:49.54 | Legorol | having said that, some content will be available without cata though |
| 16:50.00 | Legorol | the revamped leveling from 1-60 applies to everyone |
| 16:50.19 | Legorol | ehm.. cata is like $35 |
| 16:50.31 | Legorol | amazon has them for $39.99 |
| 16:50.33 | nicoli_s | oh really? thats nice |
| 16:50.38 | Legorol | wotlk will be even less |
| 16:50.44 | nicoli_s | ok well thats not too bad then |
| 16:51.36 | Legorol | well it will be $75 for the two instead of $100 |
| 16:51.44 | Legorol | still quite a lot |
| 16:53.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 16:56.02 | Ackis | so there's only 10 missions in halo reach? |
| 16:56.30 | cog|work | i love that you can neural parasite a probe and build your own nexus to "become" protoss... |
| 16:58.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 16:58.37 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|Away] by ChanServ |
| 16:58.44 | foxlit | cog|work: gold league yet? :) |
| 17:02.41 | *** part/#wowuidev mitchnull (~mitchnull@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 17:02.56 | *** join/#wowuidev augustl (~augustl@6.79-160-9.customer.lyse.net) |
| 17:04.08 | Resa1983 | all those prices are estimates. |
| 17:04.56 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 17:05.29 | cog|work | foxlit: ha no |
| 17:05.42 | cog|work | i haven't playd a game in over a week (been sick) |
| 17:05.48 | cog|work | played* |
| 17:06.36 | Ackis | and now you're going to play halo reach? |
| 17:08.12 | *** join/#wowuidev _Parnic (user@staff.xbins.org) |
| 17:08.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Humbedooh (~Humbedooh@port530.ds1-op.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 17:16.20 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/34534/monster-fire-arrow-not-arrow-do-not-reuse/ |
| 17:16.48 | *** join/#wowuidev the-golem (~Darrin@c-98-255-201-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 17:22.01 | Dagmar | Adys: Hmm.... Interesting |
| 17:23.06 | *** join/#wowuidev _Parnic (user@staff.xbins.org) |
| 17:23.19 | Dagmar | Huntery on the PTR is fun. Made a new hunter... he comes with a free bear you can't control. |
| 17:23.30 | Dagmar | After about ten minutes, he went into aggressive mode. Joy |
| 17:23.33 | nicoli_s | ouch |
| 17:23.41 | nicoli_s | i hated the implementation of that |
| 17:23.53 | Dagmar | Yeah. It's messed. No pet bar, and /petpassive does nothing |
| 17:23.55 | nicoli_s | its like at level 10, you get a passive spell, that you have to actively cast once, to get control of your pet |
| 17:24.02 | nicoli_s | so stupid |
| 17:24.18 | nicoli_s | i just assumed it was bugged until like level 20 until someone told me i had to cast the passive spell :P |
| 17:25.15 | Ackis | did you go "derp"? |
| 17:26.08 | nicoli_s | indeed |
| 17:26.45 | cbreak | why not read the quest text? |
| 17:27.01 | nicoli_s | meh, too lazy |
| 17:27.10 | nicoli_s | ill read the quest text on interesting quests |
| 17:27.51 | cbreak | like those that explain the basics of your class? :) |
| 17:28.05 | nicoli_s | ive played a warlock before |
| 17:28.10 | nicoli_s | got one up to 45 :P |
| 17:28.29 | kd3 | whistles at the hdcp "master key" |
| 17:28.36 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar_atwork (~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 17:28.48 | nicoli_s | was that you who leaked that? bad kd3 |
| 17:30.30 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (~nuohep@89.222.156.36) |
| 17:33.56 | Pneumatus | im still not convinced of its practial use |
| 17:34.07 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 17:34.30 | nicoli_s | of hdcp? or of having the key? |
| 17:34.38 | Pneumatus | of having the key |
| 17:34.51 | Pneumatus | i can't see much use for having access to an uncompressed HD stream |
| 17:35.14 | cbreak | ripping without suffering the DA-AD gap |
| 17:35.53 | Shirik | UPS is so confusing |
| 17:36.06 | Shirik | "We could return the package to the shipper, but we have to try a first delivery first because you're the recipient" |
| 17:36.09 | Shirik | what? |
| 17:36.58 | malreth | You guys don't know what you're missing... I got legless dogs here! |
| 17:37.16 | Humbedooh | do go on... |
| 17:37.26 | cbreak | Shirik: just tell them "You see that I am here. Just pretend you attempted a delivery right now, which would obviously have failed because I am right here" |
| 17:37.31 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (~drag@mna75-2-82-67-196-34.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:37.34 | malreth | they never run away and they're safe around children |
| 17:37.46 | Humbedooh | but do they support web scale? |
| 17:37.52 | cbreak | malreth: and taste good with ketchup? |
| 17:38.15 | Humbedooh | I s'pose you could argue that they support sharding...since they lost their legs |
| 17:40.00 | Shirik | http://xkcd.com/792/ <-- winnar |
| 17:40.33 | Ackis | hey Shirik how's Reach? |
| 17:40.42 | Shirik | ijefpaejw aw [o |
| 17:40.43 | Shirik | wot |
| 17:40.47 | Shirik | I hate you |
| 17:40.52 | Shirik | UPS hates me, GameStop hates me |
| 17:40.58 | Ackis | I don't hate you |
| 17:41.19 | Dagmar | What, they came to your door to hand-deliver the 'Sorry we managed to ninja away from you' sticky note? |
| 17:41.23 | Shirik | no |
| 17:41.29 | Shirik | they're trying to deliver it 3000 miles away |
| 17:41.56 | Dagmar | hmm... that's a bit more off than usual |
| 17:42.10 | Shirik | Yeah, they really suck at geography |
| 17:42.16 | Shirik | or I might have given them the wrong address |
| 17:42.21 | Shirik | either way it's not my fault |
| 17:42.22 | Dagmar | Here I was thinking I had problems because I passed BOTH the FedEX and the UPS trucks entering the condoplex on my way out |
| 17:42.24 | Shirik | because I'm the customer |
| 17:42.39 | Dagmar | I laughed to myself and said "HAHA! You can't catch *me* today!" |
| 17:42.40 | ccox | not.always.right.shirik.com |
| 17:43.04 | Dagmar | So, I'll have two stickies on my door |
| 17:43.13 | Dagmar | I gotta get a wife if I'm going to keep having this much stuff delivered |
| 17:44.07 | Shirik | in any case, at least I know where it's going |
| 17:44.10 | Shirik | so |
| 17:44.17 | Shirik | and I know who lives there |
| 17:44.26 | Dagmar | "I promise to have and to hold, in sickness and in health, as long as you sign for my deliveries." |
| 17:44.32 | Ackis | I just saw a forum thread called "Womans Rights on XBox Live" and my first thought was "they have the right to make me a sandwich" |
| 17:44.41 | Dagmar | Ackis++ |
| 17:44.43 | zenzelezz | so... what's this halo everyone's reaching for? |
| 17:44.47 | Shirik | I just don't get the whole "We can't cancel a delivery until we've tried to deliver it" |
| 17:44.50 | Shirik | like |
| 17:44.54 | Shirik | isn't that just a waste of money? |
| 17:44.59 | amro | Shirik: what kind of typo sends it 3000 miles away? |
| 17:45.13 | Shirik | amro: Web services that store shipping addresses |
| 17:45.14 | Wimpeh | HAWWRRRR |
| 17:45.14 | amro | even niger is right next to nigeria |
| 17:45.23 | kd3 | "Can't spell stupid without UPS" -- one of my ups driver's favorite quotes |
| 17:45.51 | Dagmar | UPS should sticker their packages for each city it goes through |
| 17:45.54 | Wimpeh | [19:45] <amro> even niger is right next to nigeria -- I read this soo wrong. BRB though. :3 |
| 17:46.10 | Humbedooh | UPS already translates as "oops" where I live, so nothing new there ;> |
| 17:46.21 | zenzelezz | Amazon.co.uk's registration system many many years ago didn't accept a blank input for "State". In Norway we have no states, so I wrote "N/A". One time my package was shipped (by the British postal service) to the US (I assume they read it as "North America" - hey, let's ignore the country the address says!) |
| 17:46.27 | Dagmar | Then, when you order something *big* and it falls afoul of the "get it on another truck" principle and goes from Indianapolis, to Toronto, to Seattle, to Nashville, then at least the package would look cool when you get it |
| 17:46.51 | amro | zenzelezz: I thought amazon UK didn't ship outside of the UK |
| 17:47.02 | amro | at least not outside of europe |
| 17:47.04 | amro | I tried :( |
| 17:47.05 | Dagmar | That's actually the shipping path my turntable coffins too. |
| 17:47.17 | Dagmar | yes, I called UPS when I saw that for whatever reason they'd left the US and gone to Canada |
| 17:47.32 | zenzelezz | amro: they don't - but the package was sent with the British postal service, and *they* made the mistake |
| 17:47.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Eluna (~Eluna@85.196.121.142) |
| 17:47.45 | amro | that's some serious fail |
| 17:47.52 | zenzelezz | amro: actually, strike that... I've sent stuff from .co.uk to Australia once or twice |
| 17:48.01 | amro | at least financially- they didn't charge you for intracontinental did they? |
| 17:48.10 | amro | er |
| 17:48.12 | amro | inter |
| 17:48.32 | zenzelezz | amro: nope, they even sent me a second shipment with the same books, saying I should just give the first one to a library/charity when it arrived |
| 17:50.33 | kd3 | wtf -- fark: SWAT team responds after passerby reports man with a rifle in local store. FARK: It is a customer in a gun store [Asinine] |
| 17:50.43 | Dagmar | lol |
| 17:50.51 | Dagmar | I'm sure the SWAT team was baffled. |
| 17:51.32 | kd3 | http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/09/post_38.html |
| 17:52.20 | kd3 | also, fark comments for the win: http://www.africancrisis.co.za/images/Humor_funny_journalists_guide_to_firearms_ak47_glock.jpg |
| 17:53.04 | zenzelezz | kd3: that's sadly too true |
| 17:55.25 | amro | I like how none of those are glocks |
| 17:56.44 | amro | actually, there's a glock on the ak-47 side |
| 17:57.09 | zenzelezz | I assume that's intentional |
| 17:58.49 | amro | probably |
| 17:59.02 | Wimpeh | Hahaha. Flawless picture. :3 |
| 18:00.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 18:01.40 | Adys | ~ping |
| 18:01.40 | purl | ~pong |
| 18:04.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 18:05.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-71-237-228-188.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 18:05.57 | Ackis | Two Corpses in One Grave |
| 18:06.07 | amro | necrophilia gone too far? |
| 18:06.19 | Ackis | achievement in halo reach |
| 18:06.20 | Dagmar | Just looking to save a few bucks |
| 18:06.24 | Ackis | Arrowmaster has it! |
| 18:07.50 | unfo- | I'guys: for a holy priest (2900 sp, 17% haste) -- (-68 spell, -0.96% crit) vs (+3,05% haste) |
| 18:07.53 | unfo- | ajs |
| 18:07.57 | unfo- | i'll ask here too* guys |
| 18:08.22 | Arrowmaster | still want somebody to play coop with |
| 18:08.57 | Wimpeh | I'd go with the haste, because I'm hastehorny. |
| 18:09.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (kalroth@d40aa711.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 18:09.04 | Wimpeh | But, I didn't do much holy on my priest. |
| 18:09.16 | Wimpeh | I'd assume the SP is better because CoH is used so much |
| 18:09.28 | Wimpeh | Personal preferrence I guess? Usually is for most healers. |
| 18:09.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@68-191-37-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 18:09.51 | unfo- | ok. i'm a bit rusty on my priest so i am just asking for opinions :)= |
| 18:09.55 | Amarande | anyone else having problems with curse today? |
| 18:10.11 | Dagmar | Fcck you |
| 18:10.14 | Dagmar | Apparently so. |
| 18:10.18 | Xtek | Our Data Center is having issues with a router right now. |
| 18:10.41 | Amarande | sure it's just *your* data center? |
| 18:10.42 | Dagmar | Having trouble disabling that mirrored port are they? |
| 18:10.51 | Amarande | the internet itself seems to have been kind of rickety lately :S |
| 18:11.07 | Amarande | as evidenced by the last raid lockout period having been a freaking nightmare for Turalyon :) |
| 18:11.22 | amro | Dagmar: that would be economical prostitution gone too far |
| 18:11.43 | Amarande | When you need three attempts on 10-man Toravon, for no other reason than that tanks and healers DC'd at random during the fight, you know something really isn't right with the server heh |
| 18:11.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 18:11.48 | Ackis | my holy priest has 3600ish spell power tight now |
| 18:11.54 | Ackis | http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Thunderlord&cn=Ackis |
| 18:12.04 | Stanzilla | tight now! |
| 18:12.27 | Xtek | Auth should be back up now. :) |
| 18:12.30 | Xtek | Sorry about that. |
| 18:13.29 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 18:13.37 | Adys | Anyone here good with Win(7/vista) audio and/or OpenAL? |
| 18:14.02 | zenzelezz | "good with" as in coding? |
| 18:14.22 | Adys | as in, have experience with |
| 18:14.53 | zenzelezz | not me then |
| 18:20.09 | Amarande | ... this. |
| 18:20.09 | Fisker | sup zenzelezz you lose |
| 18:20.11 | Amarande | is getting ridiculous. |
| 18:20.26 | Amarande | I've PST'd to *two* DPS requests for VoA now and apparently they filled up within the five seconds it took me to type a tell. |
| 18:20.51 | Wimpeh | Or people just don't like you |
| 18:20.57 | Amarande | and c'mon, isn't LF9M going to look like I'm desperate and don't really have a group looking for more :) |
| 18:21.17 | Wimpeh | do LFG instead? |
| 18:21.21 | cbreak | Amarande: you could just look for tanks and healers |
| 18:21.28 | Amarande | it seems you really can't *start* a raid unless there's actually someone ONLINE in your friends and guild list to start it with. otherwise, it's going to be too obvious that you're trying to disguise LFG as LFM. |
| 18:21.30 | cbreak | and once you have them, you get dps almost on it's own |
| 18:21.56 | Amarande | cbreak: guild online: 1/159. friends online: 0/20. |
| 18:22.09 | Wimpeh | klstory |
| 18:22.14 | Wimpeh | What realm and EU/US? |
| 18:23.02 | Wimpeh | If it's US, it's probably quite early isn't it |
| 18:23.08 | Amarande | Wimpeh: Turalyon US Horde. |
| 18:23.22 | Amarande | yeah, but we have wg now. |
| 18:23.23 | Wimpeh | 12-2 PM isn't it |
| 18:23.35 | Amarande | we may not have wg once the alliance majority folks start coming home from work. |
| 18:23.44 | Dagmar | 1. Find someone in target time zone. 2. type /ctcp nick TIME |
| 18:23.53 | Amarande | and it's not like I can stay up all night tonight like I usually can. I work at 9am on Wednesdays. |
| 18:24.01 | Amarande | and usually you have to get your VOA 10 in particular in on Tuesday or almost not at all. |
| 18:24.11 | Wimpeh | I see |
| 18:24.30 | Wimpeh | It's that bad eh? |
| 18:24.31 | Amarande | but it seems like everyone expects DK's to be tanks for VOA 10 and not DPS. |
| 18:24.38 | *** join/#wowuidev EthanCentaurai (~ethan@92.24.25.116) |
| 18:24.39 | Amarande | Wimpeh: I'm told most people on this server do do it on Tues. |
| 18:24.57 | Wimpeh | Raids haven't reset for us EU yet, and yet we can still find raids quite easily. |
| 18:24.58 | Wimpeh | Well |
| 18:25.01 | Wimpeh | On my realm that is |
| 18:25.14 | Wimpeh | But I know what you mean, my old realm was like that. You did it on Wednesday or not at all. |
| 18:25.15 | Amarande | And somehow I'm not thinking 477 def and 30k HP is going to endear me for trying to tank VOA10, even if Toravon is a wimp ;) |
| 18:25.26 | Wimpeh | Bullshit get good healers. ;p |
| 18:25.45 | Amarande | (how much does toravon 10 crit for on plate?) |
| 18:25.55 | Wimpeh | I have no idea. |
| 18:26.02 | Wimpeh | I don't tank on my shaman... yet. |
| 18:26.18 | Amarande | yeah I'm starting to wonder if it's worth the 50 bucks to get my DK and warlock the hell off this server |
| 18:26.18 | Wimpeh | I've started gathering gear! I'm at around 480 def. :3 |
| 18:26.47 | Wimpeh | Well |
| 18:26.54 | Wimpeh | I can't really help you with that :p |
| 18:27.18 | Wimpeh | It'd be quite wrong to go ahead and scream "YEAH MIGRATE JESUS YOUR SERVER SUCKS OLOLOL", so I'll just say no comment. |
| 18:27.43 | Wimpeh | What you could do, if your guild is inactive, is just find a new one and hope it solves itself |
| 18:27.49 | Wimpeh | I don't know how close you are to your guild though. |
| 18:30.21 | Olorin | Finally got my dropdown menu working, is their a reason why self.text is empty when checked from the dropdown_onclick function but the self.value is populated, is their a way to reference the dropdown.text element |
| 18:40.22 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@pool-72-86-110-88.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:45.17 | zenzelezz | http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/09/14/1521225/Steve-Jobs-Tries-To-Sneak-Shurikens-On-A-Plane |
| 18:48.48 | foxlit | "...but the incidents described at the airport are pure fiction." |
| 18:48.58 | cbreak | oh my, did he want to hijack his own plane? |
| 18:51.05 | amro | Steve Ballmer was recently forbidden from trying to sneak chairs onto a plane. |
| 18:51.31 | cbreak | in his hands, chairs are lethal. |
| 18:51.33 | Cide | steve ballmer is coming to the royal institute of technology on the 4th of october! |
| 18:51.42 | Amarande | yeah, I'm starting to think I need to get the hell off this realm but I don't know where to go |
| 18:51.46 | Amarande | plus I'd miss my best WoW buddies |
| 18:51.54 | cog|work | Ackis: what makes you think i'd own an xbox? |
| 18:52.20 | cog|work | ever |
| 18:52.38 | amro | ~cogwheel++ |
| 18:54.12 | Ackis | you have a good taste in things, so I assumed you'd have about 20 of them |
| 18:54.28 | nicoli_s | cog|work:to be a moderator for us you must own an xbox |
| 18:54.36 | nicoli_s | i mean ackis did it, why didnt you get with the program? |
| 18:54.38 | cog|work | so buy me one then :P |
| 18:54.44 | nicoli_s | pshhhh |
| 18:54.46 | Ackis | pfft |
| 18:55.02 | nicoli_s | pushawww |
| 18:55.05 | cog|work | we just got a PS3 last month.. |
| 18:55.13 | nicoli_s | how is it? |
| 18:55.35 | cog|work | Mostly we got it to replace our shitty blu-ray player so that was awesome enough in itself |
| 18:55.49 | cog|work | add to that HD netflix |
| 18:56.09 | cog|work | (streaming) |
| 18:56.40 | cog|work | only games we have are GTAIV and FFXIII |
| 18:56.59 | foxlit | ~cogwheel-- |
| 18:57.04 | nicoli_s | what?!? you didnt wait for final fantasy thirteen international extreme hits collection!?!?!? |
| 18:57.25 | Ackis | I got audited on my income tax... it's going to take me hours to deal with this audit when the amount of it is negligible |
| 18:57.27 | cog|work | everything i just mentioned was used... |
| 18:57.28 | foxlit | Lack of ratchet & clank / little big planet is unforgivable. |
| 18:57.38 | nicoli_s | Ackis:ouch |
| 18:57.57 | zenzelezz | screw Little Big Planet, gief Little Big Adventure |
| 18:57.58 | Wimpeh | Tottenham - Werder Bremen 1-0 :3 |
| 18:58.22 | Wimpeh | Message brought to you by the unofficial football reporter Wimpface. |
| 18:58.30 | cog|work | would like to point out that he has never identified himself as a "gamer" |
| 18:58.38 | foxlit | zenzelezz: I actually had to check that LBP is called that. |
| 18:58.45 | foxlit | and that I wasn't actually confusing the prefix with LBA |
| 18:58.50 | nicoli_s | lol |
| 18:58.56 | nicoli_s | ive heard great things about LBP |
| 18:59.38 | mikma | little big planet? |
| 18:59.53 | mikma | i love it =) |
| 18:59.55 | Fisker | wow |
| 19:00.03 | Fisker | DHL has such a good service |
| 19:00.09 | mikma | the 2 players parts in the mzps are priceless |
| 19:00.33 | Fisker | Shipment picked up MARSEILLE - FRANCE 16:53 1 Pieces |
| 19:00.41 | Fisker | It lists how many pieces my shipment is in |
| 19:00.52 | Fisker | So when the number goes up i'll know they screwed up |
| 19:01.31 | mikma | who cares about your analplugs fisker, we are talking about LBP |
| 19:01.44 | Fisker | LBP sucks |
| 19:01.55 | Fisker | I'd rather have gotten an analplug than LBP |
| 19:02.38 | mikma | like i said, who cares about your buttplugs |
| 19:04.01 | Fisker | more than your LBP mikma |
| 19:04.26 | mikma | nope |
| 19:04.40 | mikma | and, i dont have lbp, muhaha |
| 19:05.45 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (~bleh@pool-72-86-110-88.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:05.52 | Wimpeh | Tottenham - Werder Bremen 2-0 |
| 19:07.57 | Fisker | i have it mikma |
| 19:07.59 | Amarande | lemme guess though |
| 19:08.03 | Fisker | and i wish i had an analplug instead |
| 19:08.10 | Amarande | an Eastern time server is almost fatally toxic for someone who has to work till 9 a lot and lives in Eastern time? |
| 19:08.22 | Amarande | and I should have learned this in BC and STAYED on my central time server that I played on then? |
| 19:09.00 | cbreak | do the right thing |
| 19:09.01 | Amarande | because the only way to overcome bad availability, generally, is to really really stand out and you can't do that as someone with several non-WoW interests as well? |
| 19:09.04 | cbreak | play on european servers |
| 19:09.07 | cbreak | I never regretted it |
| 19:09.14 | Amarande | cbreak: can't transfer US to EU goof :) |
| 19:10.33 | mikma | fisker: http://www.geekologie.com/2010/09/possibly_the_coolest_thing_ive.php |
| 19:10.33 | Amarande | ok, let's put it this way |
| 19:10.38 | Amarande | the only raid group I've been able to get regularly |
| 19:10.42 | Amarande | 11/12 and has almost no chance of KS |
| 19:10.52 | Amarande | because every week we have to pull in new pugs since our core isn't a full 10 |
| 19:11.02 | Amarande | and that KILLS us on Sindy because the choreography requirements are too great there |
| 19:11.17 | Amarande | by the time we even get sindy down at all, when we do, it's too late to have enough time to really go at LK |
| 19:11.32 | Amarande | and people have jobs etc. and we can't really get a second date for completion half the time |
| 19:11.56 | Amarande | and since 4.0.1 is looming like a freaking glacier, we're doomed |
| 19:12.05 | Amarande | since I know what's going to go down there |
| 19:12.15 | Amarande | 1) it's going to take a couple weeks to learn the new builds, rotations, etc. with all the new mechanics |
| 19:12.25 | Amarande | 2) the new threat mechanics may screw us on DPS races anyway |
| 19:12.46 | Amarande | 3) the whole first week or so is basically lost anyway, since people like me who can barely even play with the Blizzard UI are waiting for our UI essentials to be updated |
| 19:13.04 | Humbedooh | sindra with a pug...eew |
| 19:13.15 | Amarande | Humbedooh: yeah, that's about the size of it |
| 19:13.20 | Spejnar | normal? |
| 19:13.26 | Amarande | since we tend to have about 6-7 core raiders who come every week or so |
| 19:13.27 | Humbedooh | heroic sindra with a pug = hahahahahahha |
| 19:13.36 | Amarande | then we need about 3-4 more who we usually end up pugging |
| 19:13.46 | Amarande | there's always 1-2 who haven't seen sindy and screw us on the choreography in P2 |
| 19:13.53 | Amarande | (I don't think we've ever had a fail in P1, but oh god P2) |
| 19:14.08 | Amarande | that's if we don't have a new tank, which basically screws us too |
| 19:14.13 | mikma | ooooooh, new currency system |
| 19:14.14 | Amarande | because P2 DPS comes almost entirely from the tanks |
| 19:14.22 | Spejnar | our me, pewpew huntard |
| 19:14.25 | mikma | gather up shitloads of triumphs =) |
| 19:14.25 | Spejnar | or* |
| 19:14.34 | Amarande | mikma: no you do not want to farm badges before 4.0 |
| 19:14.38 | Amarande | you want to SPEND ALL YOUR BADGES before 4.0 |
| 19:14.48 | Amarande | from what I'm seeing on PTR, you get one justice point per badge you had |
| 19:14.53 | Amarande | however, the prices of stuff |
| 19:14.57 | Amarande | are definitely NOT scaled that way |
| 19:15.04 | Amarande | it's like 239 JP's for one crusader orb for instance |
| 19:15.26 | Amarande | surplus badges are going to be nearly worthless |
| 19:15.39 | Amarande | even a commendation badge for rep? that's 15 JP's. |
| 19:15.42 | mikma | amarande: ah-ha. hmm |
| 19:17.09 | Wimpeh | Amarande, you don't happen to know how much gold you get for every Conquest, Valor and Heroism emblem? |
| 19:18.38 | Amarande | Nope. The DK I copied over doesn't *have* any of those. |
| 19:19.25 | Amarande | so gah. |
| 19:19.32 | Amarande | wondering if a server transfer and leaving behind my friends is my only option now |
| 19:19.50 | Amarande | especially since it looks like cata is going to demand a level of hardcore to raid that is unreal to the point of making LK or even BC seem casual |
| 19:20.01 | Amarande | seeing as you won't get away with ANY of the antics that we're used to in LK |
| 19:20.07 | Amarande | not with threat as it's going to be, particularly |
| 19:20.15 | Ackis | cata won't be hardcore pfft |
| 19:20.18 | Amarande | not with the hit rating scaling |
| 19:20.26 | Amarande | which basically means you can NEVER afford to fall behind on progression |
| 19:20.46 | Amarande | since presumably the only way to get geared for each raid tier will be to do the previous one, in order to appease the people who were pissed off that LK left behind that aspect |
| 19:20.59 | Amarande | and eventually, no one will do the early raid tiers anymore so you'll just be SOL |
| 19:21.12 | Amarande | at least, no one worth raiding with, anyway :) |
| 19:21.31 | Amarande | like how near the end of BC you had two types of raid guilds ... ones in high T5 or T6, and kara guilds that generally failed harder than diamonds |
| 19:21.53 | Ackis | raids should be progression |
| 19:22.04 | Amarande | Ackis: this doesn't work in practice |
| 19:22.11 | Amarande | what happens to those who level up later, particularly on DPS |
| 19:22.17 | Ackis | worked in vanilla and BC |
| 19:22.20 | Amarande | and then find that the server's moved on and they can't get a group for the starter content? |
| 19:22.32 | Amarande | or if they can, it requires them to make adjustments to their REAL LIFE, which is just stupid? |
| 19:22.43 | Amarande | that's pretty much what late BC on several servers was looking at |
| 19:22.55 | Wimpeh | I liked TBC. |
| 19:23.00 | Wimpeh | I levelled up my warrior late. |
| 19:23.01 | Amarande | if you didn't have the right job situation, you didn't have the availability to be compatible with the other few stragglers who were trying to band together for Kara |
| 19:23.08 | Amarande | so all you got to do was farm gold and get your netherdrake |
| 19:23.21 | Wimpeh | But I see what you mean, since I had to make adjustments to my real life. Namely staying up later than I wanted to to raid. |
| 19:23.29 | Amarande | well, THAT I don't mind, since I'm a night owl in general |
| 19:23.34 | Amarande | but as I've mentioned to a number of folks here before |
| 19:23.35 | Wimpeh | I wasn't |
| 19:23.36 | Wimpeh | I am now |
| 19:23.42 | Amarande | I work retail. I work till 9PM fairly often |
| 19:24.05 | Amarande | Most raids want you to be available 7-8PM, and if we're going back to the BC paradigm, probably four or five fixed nights a week |
| 19:24.10 | Amarande | which is poison to a retail job where schedules change week to week |
| 19:24.31 | Wimpeh | I raided 4 nights a week from 7 to 11. |
| 19:24.34 | Wimpeh | Sometimes 12. |
| 19:24.34 | Amarande | LK you could get away with 1 or 2 nights |
| 19:24.35 | Amarande | but |
| 19:24.40 | Amarande | LK raids were shorter and easier |
| 19:24.48 | Wimpeh | Yeah |
| 19:24.59 | Wimpeh | The length was sometimes terribly annoying. |
| 19:25.08 | Wimpeh | I really liked BT though. |
| 19:26.15 | Ackis | I dunno, in BC you could find people doing kara, TK/SSC all the time, now you can't find people doing Naxx or Ulduar any longer... Ony, Twilight drakes as well are dead from what I see on the server |
| 19:27.09 | Amarande | Ackis: I've seen Sarth+3 groups form every now and then but not Ony anymore |
| 19:27.42 | Amarande | and yeah, you could find people DOING kara |
| 19:27.50 | Amarande | whether they'd actually GET anywhere in kara, that was another thing entirely |
| 19:27.50 | Ackis | I quit playing for 10 months so I've missed Ony, and ToC, at least I can get the odd pug to do ToC now, no chance for heroic or achievements though |
| 19:27.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Alram (~Alram@vps915.directvps.nl) |
| 19:28.03 | Amarande | I think I only ever really got up to chess event successfully, groups I had always failed hard on prince and netherspite |
| 19:28.12 | Ackis | you had alts to gear up... now you gear them up with T9 gear by slapping your dick in heroics |
| 19:28.24 | nicoli_s | lol |
| 19:28.33 | nicoli_s | you have such a way with words ackis |
| 19:28.33 | Amarande | Ackis: kinda mandatory though |
| 19:28.35 | Amarande | I mean |
| 19:28.36 | Amarande | let's see |
| 19:28.38 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 19:28.38 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 19:28.40 | Amarande | if it wasn't for T9 from heroics |
| 19:28.45 | Amarande | you wouldn't ever even get to do all the heroic 5's |
| 19:28.54 | Amarande | because you need T9+ to even qualify to queue for HHoR, in particular |
| 19:29.00 | Amarande | (in fact, full T9 itself is not enough) |
| 19:29.17 | Wimpeh | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:29.18 | Ackis | that's because of the system blizz decided to go with in this expansion |
| 19:29.24 | Wimpeh | I'm not close to that gear level and I've healed HHoR |
| 19:29.34 | Wimpeh | On my Shaman that is. |
| 19:29.41 | Ackis | you should of had to take your alts through naxx, then ulduar, then toc before even thinking about icecrown |
| 19:29.49 | Wimpeh | This ^ |
| 19:30.08 | Ackis | I want to go back and do naxx achievements... no one wants to since the gear is via badges |
| 19:30.15 | Ackis | naxx/ulduar/toc |
| 19:30.31 | Ackis | and don't get me started on the distinction between 10/25 man |
| 19:31.12 | Amarande | Wimpeh: I had 5PT9 on my DK and several other epics and still couldn't qualify to get into HHoR |
| 19:31.36 | Amarande | my lock's average ilvl is WELL over 200, and she STILL can't queue for HHoR |
| 19:31.52 | Amarande | hell, I put out 5700 DPS against a boss in UP last night |
| 19:31.56 | Amarande | it's not my throughput, dammit! |
| 19:32.31 | jnwhiteh | vagina! |
| 19:32.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Xtek-Freenode (~Xtek-Free@2607:f0d0:1002:67::2) |
| 19:32.54 | Wimpeh | http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Al%27Akir&cn=Hulari mind you, I did not have the ICC ring, the relic, or the helm when I did it. |
| 19:33.16 | mikma | jnwhiteh: vag you too |
| 19:33.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Xtek-Freenode (~Xtek-Free@WoWUIDev/CurseStaff/CookieMonster/Xtek) |
| 19:33.26 | Wimpeh | I had blue alternatives, the relic was a level 63 one. |
| 19:33.51 | Wimpeh | So I don't know, but not being able to do it with 5pT9 sounds odd to me, Amarande. :) |
| 19:34.19 | Wimpeh | Wait, I had a t9 helm |
| 19:34.26 | Wimpeh | That's right, so I guess that one doesn't make a difference |
| 19:34.27 | mikma | so. playing rogue in pvp. i kinda <3 it |
| 19:34.44 | mikma | bringing sucky dk's and warriors down is awesome |
| 19:35.03 | Wimpeh | I'm a sucky everything. You wouldn't bring me down right? :( |
| 19:35.15 | Ackis | http://www.lamebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/chron1.png a pic of someone burning the Quran |
| 19:35.19 | Fisker | Ackis |
| 19:35.22 | mikma | if you are dk or warrior, i could |
| 19:35.25 | jnwhiteh | they did it a day early |
| 19:35.31 | Fisker | Ackis |
| 19:35.38 | Ackis | jnwhiteh: truth |
| 19:35.40 | Amarande | I used to love playing DK |
| 19:35.41 | Fisker | Ackis |
| 19:35.45 | Amarande | but now I'm starting to think it has no future |
| 19:35.53 | Fisker | ackis |
| 19:35.54 | Amarande | unless I'm willing to take on all the pressure and responsibility of tanking |
| 19:36.05 | Amarande | and I only ever really liked tanking on a Pally :S |
| 19:36.07 | Fisker | Ackis |
| 19:36.10 | Thaoky | good one Ackis :p |
| 19:36.18 | mikma | amarande: dk is also cool in pvp, if you can play it |
| 19:36.22 | Fisker | Ackis |
| 19:36.24 | Amarande | mikma: never been into PvP |
| 19:36.28 | Amarande | wonder if that's my downfall when it comes to fun |
| 19:36.29 | nebula | dks are much more fun in beta, imo |
| 19:36.34 | mikma | i have every now and then |
| 19:36.39 | Wimpeh | Ackis, Fisker wants something! |
| 19:36.45 | Amarande | if people with more volatile availability really need to stop thinking of cooperative mode and play mostly in individual or small group competitive games instead? |
| 19:36.56 | Fisker | Wimpeh |
| 19:36.58 | Fisker | i want Ackis |
| 19:37.08 | Wimpeh | Ackis, Fisker wants you! |
| 19:37.20 | Amarande | you know ... we should make a game that actively punishes rather than rewards commitment ;) |
| 19:37.25 | Amarande | heh |
| 19:37.30 | Ackis | FFXIV? |
| 19:37.38 | mikma | wobin: hey there, pro coder. stay awesome. |
| 19:37.43 | Amarande | the more committed you are, the more Obsession Points you get. the more Obsession Points you get, the more things screw up for you. :) |
| 19:37.55 | Shirik | Ackis |
| 19:37.58 | Fisker | i want Ackis on a stick |
| 19:38.04 | Shirik | give me a Halo Reach |
| 19:38.11 | Amarande | you know, like how if you spam arcane blast on a mage you go oom before you can blink an eye :) |
| 19:38.15 | Ackis | Shirik: I don't have it yet... soon I think |
| 19:39.27 | Shirik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Bad_edits_r_dumb |
| 19:40.17 | Amarande | Why can't they make a PvE game that people can have fun with without needing lots of extensive commitment? |
| 19:40.27 | Amarande | It seems to work for PvP, but it's almost like it's impossible to do for PvE |
| 19:41.21 | Amarande | at least, not in a multiplayer sense |
| 19:41.36 | Amarande | and it doesn't look like it's EVER managed to in a multiplayer sense, with Left 4 Dead perhaps being the ONLY real exception I can think of |
| 19:42.03 | Wimpeh | Alien Swarm. |
| 19:42.07 | Amarande | Even DOOM ... how many people ever played cooperative DOOM much? How many people played deathmatch DOOM till their parents murdered them for phone bills? Nuff said. :) |
| 19:42.08 | Shirik | ew |
| 19:42.10 | Wimpeh | That's the second exception. |
| 19:42.10 | Shirik | SAE standards are ugly |
| 19:42.11 | Wimpeh | :3 |
| 19:42.30 | Amarande | Why does it seem that a cooperative game requires a commitment requirement to succeed but a competitive game doesn't? |
| 19:42.42 | Wimpeh | I loved Alien Swarm... the first week. |
| 19:43.10 | Amarande | Or is it just an inherent attribute of the world that forces that? |
| 19:43.39 | Amarande | Maybe that to help each other succeed at dreams of any sort REQUIRES a committed relationship of some or other type, while squashing other people's dreams doesn't? :) |
| 19:44.14 | amro | Amarande: doom wasn't made for coop |
| 19:44.35 | Amarande | amro: yeah it was, particularly DOOM II where there were even extra mobs (especially cyberdemons) on many levels that only showed up in coop |
| 19:44.53 | amro | that's just catering for coop |
| 19:44.55 | Amarande | (or DM, but who ever played DM without -nomonsters ...) |
| 19:44.58 | amro | it was not designed with coop in mind at all |
| 19:45.15 | amro | there's like no teamwork |
| 19:45.47 | *** join/#wowuidev olafski (~egrimm@dream.student.utwente.nl) |
| 19:45.48 | Fisker | slaps cog|away around a bit with a large trout |
| 19:45.58 | Wimpeh | StarCraft 2 is quite fun doing some 5v5 against 5 insane AIs with friends. |
| 19:46.01 | cog|away | nerual parasites Fisker's probe |
| 19:46.11 | Wimpeh | But I find it damn tough, since none of us are that good. :D |
| 19:46.16 | Wimpeh | MAybe that's why it's so much fun |
| 19:46.45 | amro | SC2's AI is terribad in team games |
| 19:47.09 | Wimpeh | I find it quite good |
| 19:48.00 | foxlit | mrr? |
| 19:48.12 | amro | they pump out units, sure |
| 19:48.17 | amro | but no coordination |
| 19:48.27 | Amarande | however, my present gripe setoff today? |
| 19:48.35 | Amarande | the fact that it's getting almost impossible to get my VOA 10 in as DPS anymore |
| 19:48.38 | Amarande | 25, I can get in |
| 19:48.40 | amro | they will happily keep going on their merry way as you murder one of them |
| 19:48.46 | Amarande | but 10's, there's usually only like ONE DPS slot announced |
| 19:48.54 | Amarande | and people manage to freaking fill it like ... THREE SECONDS AFTER IT'S SAID |
| 19:49.02 | amro | solution: start running your own raids |
| 19:49.06 | Amarande | It takes me ... 3-6 seconds or so to respond with "I'll go" |
| 19:49.10 | Amarande | it's full *by then*. |
| 19:49.11 | Wimpeh | just type |
| 19:49.11 | Wimpeh | inv |
| 19:49.12 | Wimpeh | "inv" |
| 19:49.14 | Wimpeh | justlike that |
| 19:49.15 | Wimpeh | nothing else |
| 19:49.18 | Wimpeh | and pray that you're faster |
| 19:49.19 | Amarande | are there addons/macros that people are using to get invites quickly? |
| 19:49.33 | Wimpeh | You can't expect that "I'll go" is faster than "inv" |
| 19:49.55 | Amarande | amro: does anyone actually give any credence to people saying "LF9M" though? |
| 19:50.01 | Amarande | or do you need a second seed member to get started? |
| 19:50.15 | Amarande | remember, when I log on, I tend to be faced with 0/20 friends online and 1/159 guild unless it's in the later evening |
| 19:50.20 | amro | it helps if you have friends |
| 19:50.32 | amro | if nobody's playing wow nowadays, that's a sign |
| 19:50.34 | olafski | time to switch guild perhaps |
| 19:50.37 | Wimpeh | Yeah |
| 19:50.39 | Wimpeh | That's what I said |
| 19:50.41 | Amarande | lemme guess |
| 19:50.44 | Wimpeh | 2-2 Tottenham - Werder Bremen |
| 19:50.49 | Amarande | a guild should never be used as a glorified friends list with a chat channel |
| 19:50.54 | Amarande | that's exactly the way to fail at wow? |
| 19:51.00 | Wimpeh | That's not what I'm saying |
| 19:51.09 | Wimpeh | I'm in my current guild since I want to talk to friends |
| 19:51.21 | Wimpeh | But, if it's inactive -> What's the point? |
| 19:51.21 | NightHawkTheSane | you have to ask yourself what you want out of your guild. |
| 19:51.27 | olafski | so instead you're in a guild which is.. just a tag under your name, amarande? |
| 19:51.40 | Amarande | olafski: a tag, and I get to chat with the 3-4 guildies that are on in the evenings |
| 19:52.04 | olafski | if that's enough for you.. fine, then don't complain ;p |
| 19:52.09 | amro | you don't even need seeds |
| 19:52.09 | NightHawkTheSane | if you're okay with not relying on your guild to get groups/raids, you have to be willing to accept the fact that that's going to be significantly harder for you |
| 19:52.11 | Amarande | lemme guess ... a guild needs at least 7-10 consistently-at-the-same-time active members most of the time or it doesn't work out well for ANY sort of instancing? |
| 19:52.16 | Amarande | even ones like voa? |
| 19:52.19 | amro | if you're there as you win voa |
| 19:52.25 | amro | you can just say, /w me for voa10 |
| 19:52.28 | amro | and get 30 people right away |
| 19:52.47 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: er, for a guild to run any instance without (signiciantly) pugging it? Yeah, you kind of need members online, thats how it works. You can't raid with offline people |
| 19:52.49 | Amarande | amro, I tend to avoid wintergrasp zone like plague unless I happen for some reason to fly into it as it's going :) |
| 19:52.55 | nevcairiel | on most realms you can pug anything |
| 19:53.02 | Amarande | nev: apparently not as DPS. |
| 19:53.04 | amro | your loss, Amarande |
| 19:53.08 | Amarande | not without sometimes lottery-approaching luck. |
| 19:53.16 | nevcairiel | pugs also need dps, can't go with only healers and tanks |
| 19:53.18 | NightHawkTheSane | try making friends. |
| 19:53.20 | Amarande | and I very rarely see guilds recruiting anymore. |
| 19:53.21 | amro | finding a voa group long after the battle is hard for anyone |
| 19:53.36 | olafski | you're looking for guilds in trade chat or what? |
| 19:53.36 | Amarande | amro: yeah, I think it was about 45 min to the next battle when I logged on, come to think of it |
| 19:53.42 | NightHawkTheSane | make friends with people in other guilds, especially if you get into raids with them. become a "regular" pug. |
| 19:53.53 | Amarande | olafski: seeing as you don't see guild recruitment chat without having to first make the commitment step of LEAVING your present guild? |
| 19:53.59 | nevcairiel | speaking of, i need to start organizing my cataclysm guild |
| 19:53.59 | NightHawkTheSane | if you're relying on your luck to get you a group, you're bound to fail more often than not |
| 19:54.11 | Amarande | Night: I do that for ICC10, but I'm not sure I'm going to get more than 11/12, and even more than 10/12 most weeks |
| 19:54.22 | olafski | amarande: guild websites? :P |
| 19:54.28 | olafski | forums? |
| 19:54.30 | Amarande | I've come to realize something about this, and that's that any week we have to bring more than one or two new people for Sindy, we AREN'T getting 11/12 let alone LK |
| 19:54.31 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: so? |
| 19:54.39 | Amarande | because Sindy is a fucking choreography fest that sucks ass |
| 19:54.46 | sylvanaar_atwork | i can see it now |
| 19:54.47 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: as a pug, you dont really have cause to deserve more :P |
| 19:55.04 | sylvanaar_atwork | open invites until group rez then /gkick * |
| 19:55.25 | Amarande | Night: you're not really claiming that Kingslayer should be something for people willing to revolve their real lives around WoW, are you? :| |
| 19:55.31 | nevcairiel | I hope guild leveling wont be that stupid |
| 19:55.36 | Amarande | (which seems to be what it takes for a retail worker to be able to get into a good raid) |
| 19:55.45 | nevcairiel | like, you have a old guild at max level, everyone leaves, and the guild retains that status? |
| 19:55.46 | olafski | why not amarande? it's the final boss of an expansion |
| 19:55.48 | nevcairiel | weild be a bit weird |
| 19:55.50 | sylvanaar_atwork | i think you should be able to take your guild points with you |
| 19:55.51 | olafski | why would a pug be able to kill it just like that |
| 19:56.00 | Amarande | olafski: actually, the final boss of LK is pretty much halion :) |
| 19:56.06 | olafski | pff |
| 19:56.08 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: i'm claiming that kingslayer is for peopel who can get a regular group of people to coordinate, so it's not 10 (or 25) random peopl who dont know what they fuck they're doing |
| 19:56.09 | nevcairiel | LK is harder |
| 19:56.35 | Amarande | Night: and living in the same time zone as the server, that's basically impossible unless your job is mostly day shifts, isn't it :| |
| 19:56.42 | NightHawkTheSane | no. |
| 19:56.51 | Amarande | since by now most of the night owls worth a damn have probably all solidified into guilds leaving folks like me odd man out? |
| 19:56.51 | nevcairiel | we have alot of night-time raids |
| 19:56.52 | NightHawkTheSane | it involves nothing more than making enough friends to be part of a regular raid group |
| 19:57.08 | nevcairiel | and, there is always weekends |
| 19:57.19 | Amarande | nev: weekends are when I'm practically guaranteed to have to work late |
| 19:57.28 | NightHawkTheSane | You dont have to be in a guild to be a regular member of a raid |
| 19:57.28 | nevcairiel | no-one works 7 days a week |
| 19:57.34 | nevcairiel | your weekend is just on different days then |
| 19:57.34 | Amarande | like Sundays ... 5PM-9PM, as it was, is, and ever shall be heh |
| 19:58.17 | Amarande | Night: so basically, my raid fails because it can't fill all 10 slots with the exact same people every week and that's all there is to it? :S |
| 19:58.42 | nevcairiel | not exactly the same, but a rather constant group helps alot |
| 19:58.43 | Amarande | and I'm probably ruining my raid's chances myself with things like having gone to Dragon Con (thus missing 9/2) and having a coworker on vacation (forcing me to cover and I miss 9/16)? |
| 19:58.49 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: if you can't do that, then no, you do NOT deserve to defeat the final boss(es) of an expansion, no. |
| 19:58.58 | olafski | what kind of horrible life do you have :P |
| 19:59.14 | Amarande | 'specially since I'm probably one of the people who's actually GOT the Sindragosa dance down pretty well |
| 19:59.22 | Amarande | doesn't mean I don't still hate it, but at least I know it :S |
| 19:59.25 | NightHawkTheSane | we're not talking about first-tier shit like KT, it's not really that crazy to ask that you have a regular group that can coordinate to not-suck to defeat the BOSS of an expansion. |
| 19:59.34 | nevcairiel | sindragosa is easy. |
| 19:59.49 | Amarande | Night: you're practically expecting people to treat the game like a job to defeat LK then, though |
| 19:59.51 | nevcairiel | I've seen harder bosses |
| 19:59.51 | Amarande | rather than like, well |
| 19:59.52 | Amarande | a *game*? |
| 20:00.01 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: no, hardly, that's your own incompetence assumign so |
| 20:00.03 | nevcairiel | You should've played in classic |
| 20:00.10 | Legorol | Amarande: you know how many many people can have a perfectly normal life yet go to the bridge club every wednesday evening? |
| 20:00.11 | Amarande | it's a game! dammit it should be fun and people should be able to approach it with fun rather than having to make business type arrangements? |
| 20:00.12 | NightHawkTheSane | You can play once or twice a week, and still beat LK, if you've got a regular group |
| 20:00.14 | nevcairiel | you wouldn't have gotten out of scholomance all day |
| 20:00.27 | Legorol | Amarande: you are missing one point: it might be a game, but it's a *cooperative* game |
| 20:00.27 | Amarande | nevcairiel: ehh, failing at scholo wouldn't bug me much |
| 20:00.31 | Amarande | I actually LIKE Scholomance. |
| 20:00.38 | kd3 | ugh, scholo |
| 20:00.40 | Legorol | you do need a group of people that can, once a week at least, turn up at the same time |
| 20:00.42 | Amarande | In fact, it's my favorite old world instance |
| 20:00.42 | Wimpeh | Amarande: I personally like that LK isn't available to anyone and their mother like the rest of the expansion. |
| 20:00.45 | Legorol | is it that much to ask? |
| 20:00.50 | nevcairiel | My point was, with your attitude, you wouldn't have set a foot into one of classics raid instances :P |
| 20:00.57 | nebula | Wimpeh: but is it :\ |
| 20:01.01 | Amarande | Wimpeh: actually, it's more available than the rest of the expansion these days :) |
| 20:01.07 | Amarande | just try getting a group for Yogg or KT or Maly |
| 20:01.08 | nebula | if people can't kill it at 30% then >.> go run more heroics |
| 20:01.10 | Legorol | "please, every friday evening 7pm-10pm, or tuesday morning 6am-9am, or whatever, turn up each week" |
| 20:01.14 | Legorol | that's not that demanding, is it |
| 20:01.15 | Wimpeh | Well yeah |
| 20:01.17 | Amarande | Legorol: depends |
| 20:01.26 | Amarande | people who work retail can get zapped with a sudden schedule change very easily |
| 20:01.30 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: you're really kind of being an arrogant jerk in assuming that the entire world needs to bend itself to your schedule just to allow YOU to beat LK. At some point, you need to sacrifice, work with others, and maybe go a tinyest bit out of your way for scheduling. |
| 20:01.30 | Wimpeh | But since apparently, Amarande can't reach LK, it's obviously not available to everyone. Like it should be. |
| 20:02.05 | Legorol | Amarande: if your job requires you to be on 24/7 standby in the sense that at any odd hour of the week you might be required to work, then yes, you are screwed |
| 20:02.09 | nebula | Amarande, roll on a high pop server and just jump into pugs when you can, they're always going and they're usually populated by people that aren't terrible |
| 20:02.10 | Wimpeh | Not everyone should get to run in raping every single mob in the last raid of the expansion (well, except for Halion) |
| 20:02.14 | Legorol | even the local football club does better than that |
| 20:02.31 | Amarande | Legorol: I don't know my schedule for a given week until the Friday of the previous week. |
| 20:02.43 | nevcairiel | Indeed, most hobbys that require interaction with other people have some kind of fixed schedule |
| 20:02.45 | Legorol | that's unfortunate. your job sucks |
| 20:02.53 | nevcairiel | Deal with it |
| 20:03.16 | Legorol | as soon as you involve more than 1 person, you either a) have to schedule it each week b) have a fixed schedule |
| 20:03.20 | Legorol | that's true in life for anything |
| 20:03.25 | Amarande | nevcairiel: which means, that a 9-5 office job may indeed become required to raid at some point? |
| 20:03.42 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: hardly, again you're making absurd and illogical statements. |
| 20:03.53 | Legorol | Amarande: you would be screwed for *any* organised activity than, not just raiding. |
| 20:03.59 | Legorol | You'd have bigger issues than raiding |
| 20:04.04 | kd3 | raided fairly consistently holding down a retail job with a not-very-fixed schedule |
| 20:04.10 | Amarande | kd3: how did you do it? |
| 20:04.20 | Amarande | or does it require maybe a High pop server rather than the Medium one I'm on now? |
| 20:04.26 | NightHawkTheSane | showing up when he could, making sure thre raid knew when he couldn't, i would bet. |
| 20:04.30 | kd3 | I was in a guild that was flexible... not all college students |
| 20:04.32 | NightHawkTheSane | and the guild probably had people ready to cover for him |
| 20:04.36 | Amarande | High pop with faction majority, probably as well? |
| 20:04.41 | nevcairiel | Like i always say, if you really want to, you will manage |
| 20:04.43 | NightHawkTheSane | you dont need a high population server. |
| 20:04.47 | Legorol | Amarande, at the end of the day, you are asking for you to be able to play a group-oriented game on a variable schedule. That's not going to happen. |
| 20:04.47 | nevcairiel | If you rather cry, well, thats your problem |
| 20:04.51 | Amarande | (which really screws you over if you're Horde, since most high pop servers with Horde majority seem to be PVP and I hate PVP) |
| 20:05.02 | NightHawkTheSane | even the -lowest- population servers have enough people to form a few competant raid guilds |
| 20:05.10 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: he would, thats bascially all he does. |
| 20:05.32 | Amarande | Night: and then late in the expansion you have a bunch of stragglers whose schedules aren't compatible and all the competent raid guilds are solidified |
| 20:05.37 | Legorol | Amarande: your only solution then is to join a "pug guild". |
| 20:05.48 | Amarande | and only want the HIGHEST geared DPS, if DPS at all |
| 20:05.55 | nebula | you shouldn't be in a competent raid guild if you're going to be unreliable, lol |
| 20:05.57 | NightHawkTheSane | no, they aren't. thats just an excuse. |
| 20:05.58 | Legorol | There are some of those floating about, the idea is that they have a certain minimum standard for membership, but raiding is done by recruiting (pugging) from guild chat on an ad hoc basis. |
| 20:06.26 | Wimpeh | So because a raid leader prefers the DPS that does his job the best, he's terrible and all the DPS on the server are fucked |
| 20:06.44 | Wimpeh | What you do if you get kicked out in favor of a better geared DPS, is you find a new raid. |
| 20:06.53 | Legorol | Amarande: unfortunately I can only recommend you a good guild like that on the EU side. But I'm fairly sure they exist on US as well |
| 20:07.33 | Shirik | I think my professor's on crack |
| 20:07.45 | Shirik | He just asked a completely nonsensical question in one of the assignments |
| 20:07.48 | nevcairiel | How else would he stand teaching you |
| 20:07.49 | Wimpeh | A fairly random statement that has nothing to do with our discussion. |
| 20:07.58 | Amarande | Unfortunately, even if I transfer, I'm going to have to find a server whose HORDE side is compatible with me. |
| 20:08.02 | Shirik | Wimpeh: You're going to have to learn to deal with that if you're around here :) |
| 20:08.06 | Amarande | It's not that I'm 100% opposed to playing Alliance |
| 20:08.09 | nevcairiel | Amarande: faction change, go |
| 20:08.10 | Wimpeh | I know Shirik. I was joking. :) |
| 20:08.11 | Amarande | however, I would also like my Northrend loremaster |
| 20:08.18 | Amarande | nevcairiel: faction change has one very serious bug right now |
| 20:08.29 | nevcairiel | then level for all i care |
| 20:08.29 | Amarande | it's possible to permanently lock yourself out of Icecrown quest achievement and thus NR loremaster if you do it |
| 20:08.31 | nevcairiel | just stop crying |
| 20:08.54 | Amarande | unless they've fixed that bug, and I don't know if they have |
| 20:08.54 | foxlit | "Amarande: it's possible to permanently lock yourself out of Icecrown quest achievement and thus NR loremaster if you do it" << ? |
| 20:09.05 | foxlit | Which quests are we talking about? |
| 20:09.12 | Amarande | foxlit: some of the 5-man group quests |
| 20:09.21 | Amarande | like the chain with the fight with Isk something or other I think it was in it |
| 20:09.47 | Amarande | if you faction change, you lose the quests from your log and can't pick them up again because it doesn't properly recognize you as having done the prerequisites on the new faction |
| 20:09.59 | Wimpeh | Ask a GM to fix it |
| 20:10.03 | Amarande | and since you HAVE to have that stuff to get 140 |
| 20:10.05 | foxlit | starcraft 2 custom game loading screens are a bit meh |
| 20:10.09 | nevcairiel | hint: do them before, so they are not in your log anymore? :p |
| 20:10.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:11.02 | Wimpeh | Most 5man quests are soloable |
| 20:11.19 | Amarande | yeah, I think I've only seen one that is not |
| 20:11.21 | Amarande | (and it won't be at 85, either) |
| 20:11.23 | Wimpeh | Yeah |
| 20:11.38 | Amarande | and I've already done that one anyway :) |
| 20:11.39 | Wimpeh | The plague thingy? Wher eyou like, take shit from a bowl |
| 20:11.39 | nevcairiel | there was one where you had to use some item, but the cooldown was too long to manage alone |
| 20:11.45 | Wimpeh | Yeah |
| 20:11.47 | Amarande | nevcairiel: yeah that one |
| 20:12.06 | Wimpeh | Stupid quest because of stupid phasing >:( |
| 20:12.19 | Amarande | Wimpeh: actually that's an end phase quest and becomes a daily, so you can always find help with it anyways |
| 20:12.39 | nevcairiel | the daily is solo-able though =p |
| 20:12.56 | Wimpeh | IIRC, the people that did the daily was phased in the actual last phase and you were right before it |
| 20:12.58 | Amarande | nevcairiel: odd, I'd think the daily would have the same issue with the CD |
| 20:13.07 | Wimpeh | Because I couldn't do it with my friends until I found some that hadn't done it. |
| 20:13.18 | Amarande | Wimpeh: was that earlier in LK? |
| 20:13.23 | Wimpeh | Yeah. |
| 20:13.24 | Amarande | I know there used to be some issues with phasing in IC zone |
| 20:13.31 | Wimpeh | Yeah that could've been it |
| 20:13.31 | kd3 | they've fixed that? grouped people are in the leader's phase |
| 20:13.31 | Amarande | but those are pretty much gone now |
| 20:13.34 | Wimpeh | IT was quite early. |
| 20:13.43 | Amarande | kd3: don't think so. |
| 20:13.47 | nevcairiel | kd3: when did they change that? |
| 20:13.54 | Amarande | we still have issues with summoning people from the stone at ICC because raid members are not all in the same phase |
| 20:14.05 | nevcairiel | get a warlock, do it inside. |
| 20:14.12 | kd3 | looks at some posts on beta general |
| 20:14.13 | Amarande | and we don't always have a lock :) |
| 20:14.20 | Wimpeh | Ouch |
| 20:14.40 | nevcairiel | well beta, might as well be improved there =p |
| 20:14.44 | Amarande | I believe the classes we consistently have are priest, druid, paladin, rogue, DK and maybe mage |
| 20:14.57 | Amarande | we do not always have a warlock, hunter, shaman, or warrior |
| 20:15.04 | nevcairiel | ICC isnt exactly far from dalaran, and everyone is in there anyway |
| 20:15.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 20:15.28 | NightHawkTheSane | side note.. i really despise mages who ask for summons to ICC. |
| 20:15.43 | nevcairiel | mages are generally lazy |
| 20:15.52 | Amarande | nevcairiel: meh |
| 20:15.57 | Amarande | you begrudge mages a little laziness? |
| 20:16.10 | Amarande | let's see, super squishy pure DPS class, that probably has to work harder than almost any other to get raid spots at all these days? |
| 20:16.13 | nevcairiel | You see them porting themself from dalaran to some city, instead of just walking to the portals in dalaran |
| 20:16.15 | Amarande | they can't have a *little* bit of lazy relaxation? |
| 20:16.18 | NightHawkTheSane | no, they can't |
| 20:16.27 | kd3 | ~logs |
| 20:16.27 | purl | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. logs are updated daily |
| 20:16.39 | NightHawkTheSane | i dont care who you are, but if you're in dalaran, you don't get a summon from me. |
| 20:16.51 | NightHawkTheSane | and if you're a mage, you can port to dal, so you never get a summon |
| 20:17.14 | nevcairiel | Oh please, no class is special. If someone is too lazy to fly over from dalaran, well, too bad for him |
| 20:17.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus^ (~WiN@81.174.255.133) |
| 20:17.42 | Amarande | nevcairiel: I think if someone leveled a mage to 80 and wasn't a play-all-the-time obsessive |
| 20:17.44 | NightHawkTheSane | and no, mages don't "work harder" |
| 20:17.48 | Amarande | they'd probably find themselves hating the game within hours |
| 20:17.49 | Lunessa | Frankly, I'm sick to death of people who always ask for a summons. It's like they're saying "Oh hi. My time is way more important than yours, so you should summon me so I don't have to bother traveling to the instance like you did. Fucker." |
| 20:18.13 | nevcairiel | Thats why i kinda hate the LFD thing |
| 20:18.25 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: seriously. I don't terriblly mind in some cases, but most of the time people are lazy assholes |
| 20:18.27 | nevcairiel | people sit in dalaran, and push buttons to get ported to the dungeon |
| 20:18.30 | nevcairiel | no-one travels anymore |
| 20:18.35 | Amarande | nevcairiel: you prefer the olden days where you needed sub 5 second chat reflexes to get a group as dps at all? :) |
| 20:18.48 | Lunessa | It's why I like that Cataclysm 5 mans require you to travel to the instance at least once to discover it before you can queue for it. |
| 20:18.51 | Amarande | bad enough I have to do that for VOA. :) |
| 20:18.54 | nevcairiel | I always played healers or tanks, i don't care about the misery of DPS |
| 20:19.12 | Amarande | Lunessa: is that counting low level instances or only the 85's? |
| 20:19.22 | nevcairiel | All, afaik. |
| 20:19.26 | Lunessa | Amarande: It's only the new 80-85 instances. |
| 20:19.31 | nevcairiel | Hm |
| 20:19.32 | nevcairiel | too bad |
| 20:19.34 | Amarande | nevcairiel: sounds like you kinda regard DPS as second class citizens and healers and tanks should be the real movers and shakers of WoW :P |
| 20:19.34 | NightHawkTheSane | thats a shame |
| 20:19.42 | Amarande | actually, come to think of it |
| 20:19.43 | nevcairiel | Amarande: they are |
| 20:19.44 | *** join/#wowuidev elb0w (~gtsafas@38.112.182.36) |
| 20:19.44 | NightHawkTheSane | they are. |
| 20:19.49 | Lunessa | For a while, it was ALL, but that really hurts the low-level dungeons. |
| 20:19.54 | NightHawkTheSane | dps are a dime a dozen |
| 20:19.58 | Amarande | is there a correlation between the *role* (not the skill or charisma or class, but the *role*) of the founder/GM of a guild, and the guild's success? |
| 20:20.06 | nevcairiel | Have a good tank and a good heal, and you can carry terrible dps through any 5man |
| 20:20.11 | Amarande | I've noticed a lot of the really successful guilds are founded by tanks, while a lot of the ones GM'd by DPS founder |
| 20:20.29 | Ackis | Lunessa: the sad thing is, I discovered the ICC 5-mans before considering queueing for them |
| 20:20.31 | Lunessa | Amarande: No, organizational and leadership skill is not directly related to class/role |
| 20:20.32 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: Yeah, I can see that being rough for some of the far-flung instances relative to your race |
| 20:20.33 | elb0w | Is this a dev channel or general? |
| 20:20.34 | Amarande | not sure if I've really seen many if any that were founded by healers |
| 20:20.53 | Amarande | Night: yeah, it basically means Alliance have to wait longer to use the LFD than Horde, in particular. |
| 20:20.56 | nevcairiel | mine was initially founded my dps, but that was back in classic |
| 20:20.58 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: actually, I might disagree with that, but in reverse. Class/Role is related to the organizational/leadership skill of the player :p |
| 20:21.06 | Amarande | now, mostly I play Horde, but I can see where Alliance wouldn't like that. :) |
| 20:21.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: no, thats's dumb. |
| 20:21.10 | nevcairiel | we had mostly tanks and heal as officers |
| 20:21.20 | Amarande | Night: the lowest level instance is RFC |
| 20:21.28 | Amarande | if you had to travel to an instance to unlock it at any level |
| 20:21.38 | elb0w | I am trying to get into wow addon development, where should I start? |
| 20:21.39 | Amarande | that would mean Alliance would have to wait for VC at the least to queue at all probably |
| 20:21.46 | NightHawkTheSane | there's a lot of instances, it averagse out, claiming it benefits one faction over another is just idiotcy |
| 20:21.46 | Amarande | unless you're expecting teen level Alliance to brave Orgrimmar :) |
| 20:21.49 | NightHawkTheSane | idiocy* |
| 20:21.53 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: I would argue that leadership-inclined persons, and highly skilled organizers may tend to select roles that reflect that. But that there is no 1:1 correlation. |
| 20:22.02 | nevcairiel | no alliance goes to RFC |
| 20:22.11 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: Yeah, thats generally what I was getting at, agreed. |
| 20:22.21 | Amarande | nev: if you queue at 15 I think that's all you can get |
| 20:22.36 | nevcairiel | 15 should be good for DM, i would think |
| 20:22.42 | Amarande | ... |
| 20:22.43 | NightHawkTheSane | if not, it's within a level or two |
| 20:22.48 | Amarande | remind me not to queue for deadmines now. :( |
| 20:22.55 | Lunessa | elb0w: Check out the following sites: http://www.wowwiki.com/World_of_Warcraft_API and http://wowprogramming.com/ |
| 20:23.01 | Amarande | that's as bad as blizz expecting 68's to queue for UK |
| 20:23.07 | NightHawkTheSane | no, it's really not |
| 20:23.16 | nevcairiel | 15 is the required level for DM |
| 20:23.20 | nevcairiel | in the LFG tool |
| 20:23.38 | Amarande | "hai there. your tank doesn't have starter wotlk gear. you don't even have access to ENDGAME BC GEAR yet! but we're going to expect you to survive UK with a 68 tank who's by definition undergeared and is vulnerable to crushing blows from ingvar!" |
| 20:23.52 | Amarande | all I can say is thank god disc healing is OP |
| 20:23.56 | Amarande | at that level anyway |
| 20:24.15 | NightHawkTheSane | Er, I've seen 68s tank it. I've tanked it myself at 69 |
| 20:24.15 | nevcairiel | you don't need any gear for nexus or utgarde =/ |
| 20:24.22 | Amarande | Night: 69 is a big difference though |
| 20:24.23 | Lunessa | Yeah, but expecting Night Elves to have made the trip first, or Humans to have made the trip to Blackfathoms Deep is a bit much before letting them go there. |
| 20:24.25 | NightHawkTheSane | not really |
| 20:24.28 | Amarande | Ingvar is 72, so 68 tanks can be crushed |
| 20:24.35 | NightHawkTheSane | so? He doesn't do that much damage |
| 20:24.46 | foxlit | Ingvar BROUGHT THE PAIN... in beta. |
| 20:24.59 | nevcairiel | Instances are always nice and hard in beta |
| 20:25.06 | nevcairiel | they get nerfed for live =( |
| 20:25.16 | Amarande | nevcairiel: yeah, there's a good reason for that though |
| 20:25.21 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: although, once you hit ~30/40, its probably not crazy to expect that. it'd be nice for those levels at least. |
| 20:25.23 | Amarande | beta folks tend to be the most hardcore players, in large proportion |
| 20:25.29 | NightHawkTheSane | hardly. |
| 20:25.30 | Amarande | therefore, if it's hard in beta for hardcore folks |
| 20:25.31 | nevcairiel | I remember my first time in arcatraz in BC beta |
| 20:25.36 | nevcairiel | now that was awesome |
| 20:25.40 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: Probably. :) |
| 20:25.40 | Amarande | remember, WoW is supposed to be fun ;) |
| 20:25.50 | nevcairiel | A challenge is fun |
| 20:25.52 | Amarande | also, there's the DF to think about now |
| 20:26.06 | Amarande | basically, every instance in cata has to be able to handle a random combination of any tank class, any healer class, and any three random DPS classes |
| 20:26.09 | nevcairiel | facerolling the whole game is no fun |
| 20:26.15 | nevcairiel | have to work on tactics, etc :d |
| 20:26.22 | Amarande | can't even do it like BC where many heroics practically needed a specific class to have the right CC to not die horribly |
| 20:26.27 | elb0w | Lunessa, ty |
| 20:26.39 | Lunessa | Amarande: The real reason is that beta forces you to learn new abilities from bosses, new layouts, and rules changes for your abilities all at once. 5 months after the expansion ships we'll wonder why we ever thought it was hard. |
| 20:26.55 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: thats was ever only true if you were bad. |
| 20:26.58 | Amarande | Lunessa: yeah, the paradigm shift's going to be particularly rough this time too |
| 20:27.02 | NightHawkTheSane | and it was a poor design in the first place, anyway. |
| 20:27.08 | Amarande | Night: or undergeared, which was really my problem chronically in BC anyway |
| 20:27.17 | Amarande | I knew my class pretty well ... but I never really had a good chance to get geared |
| 20:27.17 | Lunessa | Amarande: I know. I've been pointing that shit out to people since Alpha. :) |
| 20:27.19 | nevcairiel | NightHawkTheSane: indeed, we had a fixed group make up and we did all heroics with it in BC |
| 20:27.22 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: cry more. |
| 20:27.49 | nevcairiel | Amarande: we did the instances before we even had a chance to collect gear .. we did them TO GET gear .. i don't see your problem <.< |
| 20:27.56 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: best time i ever had in an instance? tanking heroic shattered halls on my warrior, with only a warlock for cc. >.> |
| 20:27.59 | nevcairiel | People crying today that undergeared people get into heroics |
| 20:28.08 | Amarande | Lunessa: btw, any word on whether LK bosses are being nerfed for 4.0 like BC ones were in 3.0? |
| 20:28.32 | nevcairiel | NightHawkTheSane: hah. You know whats a good mass-cc, a priest fearing and a mage frost nova'ing them, so they don't run away :p |
| 20:28.34 | Lunessa | I haven't seen anything that says they're doing so. So, I doubt it. |
| 20:28.49 | nevcairiel | but tanking heroic shattered halls on a warrior was always fun |
| 20:28.52 | Amarande | heh, the LK raid circuit may end by the end of the month for the most part then :) |
| 20:28.54 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: hell, I was jumping into LK heroics practically as soon as I had 5 friends at 80.. so "undergeared" by today's standards that heroic AN kicked our -asses-. Fun as fuck though. |
| 20:28.54 | nevcairiel | stressful and work, but fun |
| 20:29.04 | nevcairiel | NightHawkTheSane: we did the same |
| 20:29.08 | nevcairiel | not one normal mode instance |
| 20:29.16 | Amarande | Night: heh. no one wanted to do heroic AN on Turalyon before the dungeon finder :) |
| 20:29.19 | nevcairiel | but we had a feral tank, to be fair |
| 20:29.21 | nevcairiel | so no crits |
| 20:29.22 | Amarande | people would rather do nexus for gods' sake |
| 20:29.34 | NightHawkTheSane | We did normals, to help non-80 friends. |
| 20:30.07 | Amarande | the last three original heroics I saw on my warlock were Halls of Stone, Azjol-Nerub, and Oculus |
| 20:30.16 | Amarande | I didn't see ANY of them on that character until 3.3.5 |
| 20:30.24 | Amarande | of those three, that is |
| 20:30.31 | Amarande | people avoided them like plague back in the day :) |
| 20:30.37 | NightHawkTheSane | oculus was so easy :( |
| 20:30.38 | nevcairiel | we directly started to work towards the red proto dragon |
| 20:30.40 | Amarande | no wait, worse than plague |
| 20:30.42 | nevcairiel | had to do something with those heroics |
| 20:30.49 | Amarande | I remember the pre-WOTLK zombie event. People actually TRIED to get plague. :) |
| 20:30.59 | nevcairiel | that event sucked |
| 20:31.08 | Wimpeh | it was fun at first |
| 20:31.12 | Amarande | Myself, I pretty much stayed on my netherdrake high above Shattrath and watched the chaos from a safe distance |
| 20:31.12 | Wimpeh | for like an hour or two |
| 20:31.15 | Wimpeh | then it was like |
| 20:31.23 | Wimpeh | FUCKSAKE STOP BITING ME YOU RETARD. |
| 20:31.30 | Wimpeh | Then I bit someone else and was happeh. |
| 20:31.31 | Amarande | Wimpeh: yeah, that event had timing issues too |
| 20:31.47 | NightHawkTheSane | I had fun almost the whole time. I switched between getting the plague, some friends, and taking over redridge. |
| 20:31.50 | Amarande | it was virtually right on top of the Halloween event, on the first year that you could get achievements for the Halloween event |
| 20:31.57 | Amarande | and A LOT of people were complaining madly because of that |
| 20:32.02 | NightHawkTheSane | er, between taht and logging on my paladin and cleansing everything in sight |
| 20:32.08 | Amarande | because they couldn't enjoy the halloween event because people from the LK pre event were griefing them with the zombie stuff |
| 20:32.16 | NightHawkTheSane | kiting hordes of zombies around shattrath was badass. |
| 20:32.20 | Amarande | It basically made every server into free-for-all PvP, was the basic issue people had |
| 20:32.24 | nevcairiel | they were zombies, they are supposed to grief |
| 20:32.33 | *** join/#wowuidev luigithekid (~chatzilla@200.8.114.136) |
| 20:32.46 | nevcairiel | speaking of achievements, when is the brewfest starting? |
| 20:32.57 | Amarande | nevcairiel: next Tuesday, I think |
| 20:32.59 | Amarande | along with hockey season |
| 20:33.07 | NightHawkTheSane | And oddly, it never stopped me from getting all my halloween achievements that year, so I think the people whining were really just.. well.. wh iners. |
| 20:33.13 | Amarande | in fact, I learned something about Brewfest recently |
| 20:33.19 | Amarande | it's actually EXACTLY timed correctly |
| 20:33.23 | nevcairiel | need to finish that last achievement i'm lacking for the purple drake |
| 20:33.32 | Amarande | that is precisely where the German Oktoberfest they got the idea from is |
| 20:33.38 | nevcairiel | of course |
| 20:33.47 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: yeah, my druid is like -one- brewfest achievement away from that. >< |
| 20:33.50 | nevcairiel | alot of their holidays have some real world correlation |
| 20:33.59 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: s/alot/all. :P |
| 20:34.00 | Amarande | nev: yeah but usually most American Oktoberfest celebrations are mistimed |
| 20:34.03 | Amarande | often even in early September |
| 20:34.14 | kd3 | that's because american takeoffs on foreign holidays are all like that |
| 20:34.16 | Amarande | I saw an oktoberfest advertised around here for LABOR DAY weekend |
| 20:34.19 | nevcairiel | funny, how its called Oktoberfest, to hold it in september :P |
| 20:34.33 | Amarande | nevcairiel: well the German one extends through the first Sunday in October |
| 20:34.41 | Amarande | even though it starts in September |
| 20:34.42 | nevcairiel | indeed |
| 20:34.52 | nevcairiel | I am german, you don't have to tell me :p |
| 20:35.02 | nevcairiel | i mean the american ones |
| 20:35.46 | nevcairiel | man, more nevcairiel's show up on the armory, i should sue them for stealing my name |
| 20:35.50 | nevcairiel | bastards |
| 20:36.09 | Wimpeh | brb making random character called nevcairiel |
| 20:36.27 | nevcairiel | there is 4 in the EU right now, 2 is me, 2 is not <.< |
| 20:37.09 | Wimpeh | I sincerely hope nobody steals my name, since it's stolen anyway. |
| 20:37.16 | Wimpeh | Hulari = Hugh Laurie = House :D |
| 20:37.37 | Lunessa | Meh, most of my character names don't end up being unique. /sadpanda/ |
| 20:37.38 | Amarande | heh, my DK's name comes from Lone Wolf and my warlock from Wheel of Time |
| 20:37.44 | Amarande | warlock = Alvaerin = Alviarin Sedai |
| 20:37.47 | Wimpeh | There are 3 though. |
| 20:37.48 | Wimpeh | :) |
| 20:38.06 | Amarande | DK = Vladoka, a reference that is much less prominent and even easily missable in its series |
| 20:38.15 | myrkraverk | I'm alone on the EU servers with Aenott. |
| 20:38.31 | Wimpeh | You usually post on the EU interface forums don't you. |
| 20:38.36 | myrkraverk | Yes. |
| 20:38.39 | Wimpeh | And sign with "- Aenott" all the time |
| 20:38.43 | myrkraverk | Yes. |
| 20:38.46 | Wimpeh | Even though we can see your name under your portrait. |
| 20:38.51 | myrkraverk | Yes. |
| 20:38.53 | Wimpeh | I see. |
| 20:39.04 | Amarande | http://www.projectaon.org/en/xhtml/lw/12tmod/sect48.htm <-- this is where you encounter the Vladoka |
| 20:39.14 | myrkraverk | I'm just used to sign letters/posts. |
| 20:39.22 | Amarande | but you don't encounter it at all if you take the underground tunnel path |
| 20:39.46 | Amarande | also if you go 324->287, you won't even know that it was CALLED that |
| 20:39.53 | Amarande | because you kill it instantly with your bow and don't get to see the name |
| 20:40.22 | Amarande | or you could be an idiot and draw the Sommerswerd. ;) |
| 20:41.01 | Amarande | I don't think we need to say why this is bad. "Hai there. I'm within the SUPER MEGA EVIL HQ CITY and I'm going to draw my laser holy avenger uber blade ... wtf do you mean I got caught and thrown into the lava?" |
| 20:41.16 | Ackis | http://cuteoverload.com/2010/09/14/live-from-the-supper-dish-taos-nm/ POM! |
| 20:41.40 | Amarande | man, after a while it kinda sucked to even have the Sommerswerd ... yet you practically couldn't live without it |
| 20:42.48 | Amarande | you know, they should have let you carry the ashbringer. then have it hiddenly be "oh, btw, while carrying this you automatically get aggro from every scourge and the lich king and they do 300% damage" or something like that. :) |
| 20:43.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~Ryan@adsl-226-65-237.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:43.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 20:43.25 | myrkraverk | Wimpeh, Do you not sign your posts, in general? |
| 20:43.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Xyphoid (~xyph@unaffiliated/xyphoid) |
| 20:44.19 | *** part/#wowuidev Thaoky (Thaoky@105.58-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 20:44.48 | Amarande | Oh yeah, and AFTER you beat the Vladoka, there's yet another piece of schmuck bait. Masters of Darkness was full of that. :) |
| 20:47.10 | Warloco | hmm |
| 20:47.20 | foxlit | "If you have (stuff) then you can (stuff)" |
| 20:47.25 | foxlit | What sort of honor system madness is this? |
| 20:47.41 | TC-Work | WTB weekend |
| 20:48.37 | Warloco | is it just me or are addon confirmations taking longer than usual o_o |
| 20:50.05 | Shirik | you could always just ask |
| 20:50.30 | foxlit | Shirik's electroshock collar that notifies him of new submissions is broken. |
| 20:50.38 | Warloco | hehe |
| 20:50.39 | Amarande | hah |
| 20:50.49 | Warloco | im just curious 'cause lately it had been super fast |
| 20:51.00 | Warloco | or atleast it was really fast when I updated my addons earlier |
| 20:54.39 | Shirik | uh |
| 20:54.40 | Shirik | Warloco |
| 20:54.44 | Shirik | what addon is this? |
| 20:55.18 | ckknight | @project Warloco |
| 20:55.18 | Repo | ckknight: No project found that matches 'warloco' |
| 20:55.20 | ckknight | shrugs |
| 20:57.39 | kd3 | winces |
| 20:57.52 | Shirik | pokes kd3 |
| 20:57.54 | kd3 | fark: Eiffel Tower evacuated due to bomb threat. Reporting live from the scene is Fark's correspondent mime. What's happening there, Marcel? ". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ." Thanks for the update, Marcel [newsFlash] |
| 20:58.14 | Shirik | ?? |
| 20:58.55 | TC-Work | a mime shi |
| 20:59.01 | TC-Work | Shirik* |
| 20:59.06 | TC-Work | you pedantic AI |
| 20:59.06 | Lunessa | Marcel Marceau |
| 20:59.17 | Shirik | I'm so confused |
| 20:59.56 | Dagmar | He ain't gon' say much anyway. |
| 21:00.07 | Dagmar | He's been dead for about three years now. |
| 21:00.18 | Dagmar | Dead > Being a mime |
| 21:00.52 | Dagmar | <obligatory comment about no one noticing because he's so quiet anyway> |
| 21:01.29 | TC-Work | though to be honest a mime cant speak, nothing is said about them typing |
| 21:02.43 | Shirik | I probably would be a great mime |
| 21:02.47 | Shirik | I can type about as fast as I can talk |
| 21:02.48 | Shirik | so |
| 21:02.52 | Shirik | might as well |
| 21:05.30 | Warloco | @ Shirik/ck: Readycheck buffcheck :p sorry was alt tabbed |
| 21:06.10 | Warloco | but it looks like you guys got to it already now |
| 21:13.10 | Shirik | M&M peanuts: Warning: May contain peanuts |
| 21:13.23 | Amarande | Lighter fluid: Warning: Combustible |
| 21:13.31 | foxlit | Shirik: * traces of |
| 21:13.38 | Amarande | heh. let's see, it better be combustible |
| 21:13.43 | cog|away | Shirik: it's true. Haven't you ever gotten a peanut M&M that didn't have the peanut in the middle? |
| 21:13.51 | Amarande | non-combustible lighter fluid ... I think that's sold in the Useless department along with the screen doors for submarines |
| 21:14.01 | Humbedooh | diesel lighters! |
| 21:14.03 | cog|work | Amarande: and helicopter ejection seats? |
| 21:14.05 | Shirik | cog|work: Have you ever gotten a bag of peanut m&ms without a single peanut? |
| 21:14.09 | foxlit | Amarande: it could still be flammable |
| 21:14.17 | cog|work | Shirik: randomness is random |
| 21:14.22 | cog|work | it's within the realm of possibilities |
| 21:14.33 | Humbedooh | peanuts are flammable yes |
| 21:14.46 | foxlit | Shirik: just because no one has does not imply they do not exist |
| 21:14.55 | cog|work | s/randomness is random/chaos is chaotic/ |
| 21:14.56 | Amarande | Caffeine pills: Not intended as a substitute for sleep. |
| 21:15.13 | Amarande | cog, have you gotten your tautology club membership card yet? :) |
| 21:15.24 | Amarande | speaking of which, the tautology club membership card ... is a tautology club membership card. :D |
| 21:15.34 | cog|work | o rly? |
| 21:15.36 | cog|work | :P |
| 21:16.44 | Humbedooh | he's on the PR committee, Amarande |
| 21:16.49 | Humbedooh | Pleonastic Reasoning |
| 21:18.33 | cog|work | Shirik: or how about some guy at the factory mixed up one of the packaging boxes so they put regular m&ms inside a peanut wrapper... |
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| 21:20.19 | Amarande | cog: heh. |
| 21:20.31 | Amarande | speaking of messed up packages, did you hear about the incident on cape cod a couple months ago? |
| 21:21.06 | Amarande | it was during the Last Airbender toy promotion at McDonald's |
| 21:21.23 | Amarande | apparently, a box of condoms destined for the Provincetown high school got swapped with a box of Last Airbender toys meant for McD's |
| 21:21.23 | Amarande | AND |
| 21:21.25 | Amarande | this is the scary part |
| 21:21.35 | Amarande | each place actually passed out their incorrectly received stuff as if it was the right one :P |
| 21:22.00 | cog|work | and this is why Peanut M&Ms *may* contain peanuts... |
| 21:22.14 | Amarande | now, I can understand the McD's making mistakes. |
| 21:22.35 | Amarande | a lot of McD's employees aren't that bright, and so I can believe some of them thinking "Ribbed Latex" was a character from Last Airbender. |
| 21:22.50 | Amarande | Well, that and it's M. Night Shyamalan, and you can't put much of ANYTHING past him. LOL |
| 21:23.13 | Lunessa | And the employees at both distribution points didn't speak/read much English. |
| 21:23.15 | Amarande | It's a bit scary that the high school nurse was passing out Last Airbender toys, though. :| |
| 21:25.50 | Xyphoid | onion article? |
| 21:26.12 | Xyphoid | http://www.crystalair.com/story.php?id=201006011 appears to be the original link, and it's a parody site. |
| 21:26.19 | Xyphoid | gg |
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| 21:27.02 | Lunessa | There was an actual case of McD's getting condoms, but not the high school thing. |
| 21:27.40 | Lunessa | http://www.crystalair.com/story.php?id=201006011 |
| 21:28.01 | foxlit | Lunessa: two lines of scrollback |
| 21:28.20 | Xyphoid | 'Today's top stories: Al Qaeda Releases Fall/Winter Schedule' |
| 21:28.41 | foxlit | "There are provisions in the plan that allow for companies with smaller budgets to sponsor a tropical depression or tack their name onto the remnants of a hurricane." |
| 21:28.45 | Amarande | Xyphoid: I'm not exactly sure where the original was from but someone felt the need to screenie it and put it on failblog a while back. |
| 21:29.06 | Lunessa | Also, http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,268697,00.html which may have inspired the other. |
| 21:31.25 | Xyphoid | Amarande: you do realise now that the avatar thing is fake though? |
| 21:32.16 | Amarande | Xyphoid: heh. yeah. |
| 21:32.24 | Amarande | I still wouldn't put it past McD's to do something like that though |
| 21:32.40 | Amarande | (Or, indeed, if M. Night Shyamalan actually does have a character named Ribbed Latex in a future movie, because that guy is *weird.*) |
| 21:40.28 | Xyphoid | are our holy paladins muppets for skipping aura mastery? |
| 21:40.46 | Kraps | Shyamalan has a new movie coming out |
| 21:41.07 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aINOilb_Kzc |
| 21:41.15 | Xyphoid | oh no |
| 21:42.55 | nicoli_s | whats fucked up is he is making that movie into a trilogy |
| 21:43.10 | Xinhuan | FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abE09-tqhoM |
| 21:43.13 | Xinhuan | lol |
| 21:43.13 | nicoli_s | and then taking the villian from what was going to be unbreakable 2, and just jamming him into the sequl to devil |
| 21:43.54 | nicoli_s | lol i love the quote at the end "The idea of a fatigue system is so revolutionary that at first glance it sounds ridiculous to most people. But when you really start to look at it, the system allows for more freedom." |
| 21:44.28 | Kraps | elevators are completely foreign to the human condition |
| 21:48.14 | Kraps | that system is bs |
| 21:48.19 | nicoli_s | indeed |
| 21:49.02 | nicoli_s | i mean yeah its nice if yer one of those people who want to level up all of the professions and switch constantly, but thats gotta be the minority |
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| 21:55.29 | Kraps | i would love wow to give me more incentive to level more profs with alts but this is the wrong way |
| 21:56.41 | foxlit | Kraps: you could craft more things for yourself? |
| 21:56.55 | Amarande | Kraps: if anything, WoW no longer gives much of ANY incentive to level alts and profs unless gold is your only real goal :| |
| 21:57.09 | Amarande | I don't think I blame Blizzard for that as much as the community though |
| 21:57.38 | Amarande | the sort of focus this game demands on a single character, particularly if you want to raid at all and don't want to make WoW your only hobby |
| 21:57.50 | Amarande | leaves you with so little time for fun things like alts and profs :( |
| 21:57.57 | Xyphoid | 'profs' there and profs in wow are quite different things right |
| 21:58.13 | Xyphoid | or am i misunderstanding |
| 21:58.25 | Kraps | foxlit: thats the best reason but it still doesnt outweigh the pain (yes pain) of leveling alts + profs |
| 21:58.28 | Amarande | Xyphoid: I'm saying, if you invest that much time into multiple characters you're going to either have to be an "always on" WoW'er, or not get to raid |
| 21:58.41 | Amarande | because of how you need so much into a single character to meet people's standards now |
| 21:58.55 | Kraps | Xyphoid: the combining different skills is cool |
| 21:59.29 | Amarande | well ... Cata will start the slow decay of 25's. maybe we'll be down to just 5's and maybe a few endgame 10's a couple expansions later. :) |
| 21:59.32 | Amarande | and 5's you can just queue for. :) |
| 22:00.21 | Amarande | I don't get hardcore WoW folks. at all. |
| 22:00.33 | Amarande | or even why a game should reward that sort of obsession, rather than just having content that's, well, fun. |
| 22:01.03 | Amarande | but at the same time, it grates on me when they include content that basically forces you to be hardcore to do. |
| 22:01.13 | Amarande | would it have really been that much less of a game if, say, ICC had been a 5-man dungeon? |
| 22:01.24 | Amarande | I'm sure people would still have enjoyed the Warcraft lore and storyline |
| 22:01.45 | Amarande | and there'd be nobody feeling huge amounts of pressure to make commitments and invest enormous amounts of time a week into the game to 'keep up' |
| 22:01.51 | Xyphoid | you'll be happier if you eliminate the word 'hardcore' and 'casual' from your vocabulary |
| 22:01.55 | Xyphoid | and just play what you want to play |
| 22:02.05 | NightHawkTheSane | we'd be happier if he stopped whining so much. |
| 22:02.18 | Amarande | Hell ... Guild Wars stuck with (their) standard 8-man missions for the entire storyline ... and people thought it was great. |
| 22:02.34 | Xyphoid | nethack is more hardcore than WoW |
| 22:02.40 | Xyphoid | (and a better game) |
| 22:02.41 | Amarande | Xyphoid: nethack is just plain evil ;) |
| 22:03.08 | Amarande | "Hai there. You are a Human Wizard. You started with all these REALLY AWESOME LUCK COOL things to start with ... which means you will YASD on soldier ants on level 3." :D |
| 22:03.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (jporterf@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 22:03.22 | Amarande | Heh. |
| 22:03.30 | Amarande | For some reason I always seem to find YASD posts much more entertaining than YAAPs |
| 22:03.31 | Xyphoid | did you just laugh at your own joke? |
| 22:03.56 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:04.00 | Amarande | If anything, YAAPs are often particularly boring, if there isn't a particularly close call at some point. |
| 22:04.07 | Amarande | YASD's are almost always fun. |
| 22:04.08 | Arrowmaster | we broke reach |
| 22:04.15 | Arrowmaster | the mission is broken on us |
| 22:04.38 | Amarande | yay curse is working again |
| 22:05.03 | NightHawkTheSane | Xyphoid: well, no one else was going to. |
| 22:05.19 | Amarande | Xyphoid: I'm more thinking about the fact that eventually, "what I want to play" hits a barrier that really irks me. |
| 22:05.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Warloco (~theunknow@abarelds.xs4all.nl) |
| 22:05.30 | Amarande | You're still questing, and doing 5-mans, and it's all fun. |
| 22:05.40 | Amarande | Then you run out of quests and the 5-mans have coughed up everything that's any good for you |
| 22:05.58 | Amarande | And then all you can either do is the same tired old dailies day in and day out, or put in a *huge* commitment spike to be able to raid. |
| 22:06.06 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@c-76-114-170-138.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:06.06 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 22:06.11 | NightHawkTheSane | or you can go play a different game? |
| 22:06.14 | Amarande | Or start an alt but presumably you play your main because you like that class's style :) |
| 22:06.21 | NightHawkTheSane | no one says you MUST play wow for all your entertainment needs |
| 22:06.40 | *** join/#wowuidev malreth_ (~triti@wireless-128-62-82-59.public.utexas.edu) |
| 22:06.57 | Amarande | Night: I think it's also a dichotomy. |
| 22:07.05 | Amarande | The raid battles themselves? Those are actually fun. Well, mostly. I still hate Sindy. |
| 22:07.07 | NightHawkTheSane | no, its not |
| 22:07.17 | Amarande | The logistics of raiding? That is not fun. |
| 22:07.28 | Xyphoid | the logistics of raiding have never been easier |
| 22:07.37 | NightHawkTheSane | thats not a dichotomy, not in the slightest. |
| 22:07.50 | Amarande | Night: yeah it is, you've got fun and not fun inextricably mixed. |
| 22:07.58 | NightHawkTheSane | no, its NOT. its a trade off. |
| 22:08.00 | NightHawkTheSane | it's a cost. |
| 22:08.06 | NightHawkTheSane | it's the price you pay for having said fun. |
| 22:08.12 | NightHawkTheSane | if you dont want to pay it, you go do something else. |
| 22:08.14 | Xyphoid | and don't forget logistics is fun for some people |
| 22:08.19 | NightHawkTheSane | but they're not in opposition. |
| 22:08.29 | Amarande | Xyphoid: yeah, there has to be a reason some people go into middle management ... heh |
| 22:08.44 | Xyphoid | don't you find it satisfying to provide flasks/enchants/gems/food? |
| 22:08.57 | Amarande | Xyphoid: my main runs two gathering professions :| |
| 22:09.02 | Amarande | and my Chef is not my main |
| 22:09.11 | NightHawkTheSane | Xyphoid: i find that part of it fun, but i refuse to believe anyone finds the scheduling/raid filling aspect fun |
| 22:09.24 | Amarande | Night: yeah, you finally agree with me on something :) |
| 22:09.30 | NightHawkTheSane | Xyphoid: then again, I also don't usually provide consumables to anyone outside my friends. |
| 22:10.03 | Amarande | actually, there's probably some people who find the scheduling and raid filling aspect fun |
| 22:10.09 | Amarande | I'm sure there's a few hardcore middle managers who play WoW. |
| 22:10.22 | Amarande | although, to really be a hardcore middle manager you probably have to be insane anyway |
| 22:10.33 | NightHawkTheSane | no one likes being a middle manager. |
| 22:10.37 | Amarande | and it's best not to really consider insane people when analyzing general patterns |
| 22:11.00 | NightHawkTheSane | middle managmenet is what you do when you're too incompetant to have a skill based job, but don't have the right connections to be a real executive. |
| 22:11.08 | Xyphoid | coordinating and leading people can be satisfying, obviously |
| 22:11.27 | NightHawkTheSane | leading, and by extension teaching, certainly |
| 22:12.00 | *** join/#wowuidev taroven (taroven|Co@HW-ESR1-208-102-8-69.fuse.net) |
| 22:12.02 | NightHawkTheSane | i loved leading raids. but i always let someone else put the raid together ;) |
| 22:12.03 | Xyphoid | not every moment's fun but the outcome's good |
| 22:12.31 | Amarande | Xyphoid: heh |
| 22:12.37 | Amarande | I think at this point if I get KS, it'll probably be |
| 22:12.50 | Amarande | "oh god, finally, now I don't have to see this damn place again" |
| 22:13.03 | Amarande | yes, Sindy is really starting to grate on me that much |
| 22:13.10 | NightHawkTheSane | magnets are really awesome. |
| 22:13.18 | NightHawkTheSane | especially spherical ones. |
| 22:13.22 | Xyphoid | sindy tomorrow for us |
| 22:13.24 | Xyphoid | it looks fun |
| 22:13.35 | Amarande | Battles in ICC I find fun: LDW, Gunship, Festergut, Rotface, all of the Blood Wing, Valithria. |
| 22:13.50 | Amarande | Battles in ICC I find meh: Marrowgar, Deathbringer. |
| 22:13.58 | Amarande | Battles in ICC I *HATE*: Putricide, Sindy. |
| 22:14.11 | Xyphoid | got our putricide kill last night, i quite liked it |
| 22:14.18 | NightHawkTheSane | so you like the easy ones, and dislike the hard ones? |
| 22:14.22 | Amarande | Battles in ICC I don't really have ANY IDEA ABOUT because of aforementioned Sindy: LK. |
| 22:14.30 | NightHawkTheSane | (well, relatively hard, putricide isn't terribly difficult) |
| 22:14.40 | Xyphoid | improving our strategy and seeing it work was really satisfying |
| 22:14.55 | NightHawkTheSane | Xyphoid: -that- is something i kind of miss about raiding. |
| 22:15.03 | Amarande | Night: I think the thing about Putricide and Sindy is that they're both 1) long and 2) far too easy to end up frustrated to all hell about for things that *aren't even your fault in the slightest*. |
| 22:15.14 | NightHawkTheSane | the resource available to raiders these days are really awesome. but sometimes it loses something in translation |
| 22:15.27 | Amarande | I know both fights quite well, but I always get stuck with one or two raiders who don't and manage to get us wiped time after time after time. |
| 22:15.35 | NightHawkTheSane | so? |
| 22:15.48 | NightHawkTheSane | thats what makes those a little bit harder, that you can't have 25 people all doing their own thing |
| 22:16.06 | Xyphoid | NightHawkTheSane: yeah, i'm really enjoying it at present since we've got a raid of people who haven't seen any of this stuff, so we're having to learn it from scratch |
| 22:16.18 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 22:16.25 | Amarande | Also, Sindy isn't terribly fun, either. Yay, I bounce around from iceblock spot to iceblock spot breaking iceblocks. No variation, not even any real reaction apart from Blistering Cold. |
| 22:16.44 | Xyphoid | so there's email discussion during the day, trying out random ideas, etc |
| 22:16.59 | Amarande | Blood Princes, on the other hand, is a very fun run around with situational awareness fight. |
| 22:17.06 | Xyphoid | raiding 4 hours a week is about right for my wrists |
| 22:17.54 | NightHawkTheSane | Xyphoid: do you guys utilize any of the resources, like tankspot, bosskillers, wowwiki, or what-have-you for tactics/videos? |
| 22:18.02 | Xyphoid | yep |
| 22:18.10 | Xyphoid | but they're often out of date or we misinterpret things |
| 22:18.13 | NightHawkTheSane | *nod* |
| 22:18.20 | NightHawkTheSane | I kind of miss not being able to rely on those. |
| 22:18.30 | Amarande | Actually for Sindy, make that "I bounce around from iceblock spot to iceblock spot breaking iceblocks like a pro. Then I realize I'm dead again and have gotten nothing out of this night but a 40g repair bill because the new PUG we had to bring in to fill out the raid screwed it up AGAIN." |
| 22:18.37 | Xyphoid | eg, blood council, we totally misunderstood empowered shock vortex |
| 22:18.49 | Amarande | Xyphoid: you screwed up empowered shock vortex. |
| 22:18.50 | Amarande | dude. |
| 22:18.50 | *** part/#wowuidev Warloco (~theunknow@abarelds.xs4all.nl) |
| 22:19.00 | Amarande | also: I do not understand people who hate Blood Princes at all. |
| 22:19.09 | Amarande | that's perhaps the single most fun fight in WoW. |
| 22:19.09 | NightHawkTheSane | it's boring as fuck, thats what. |
| 22:19.20 | Amarande | Night: you know, if you're right about that |
| 22:19.23 | Amarande | maybe that says something about WoW |
| 22:19.29 | Amarande | maybe I should cancel my cata preorder and quit :S |
| 22:19.37 | Xyphoid | yes, we screwed up blood council |
| 22:19.40 | NightHawkTheSane | it's tank and spank until he changes.. then its tank and spank until he changes.. repeat ad nauseum. |
| 22:19.42 | Kraps | why cant you rely on those resources, the fights dont change |
| 22:19.58 | Xyphoid | they did change, eg we were trying to outrange it |
| 22:20.06 | Xyphoid | which apparently worked early on and got patched or something |
| 22:20.07 | NightHawkTheSane | goes afk for mid-afternoon coffee break |
| 22:20.09 | Amarande | but I'll give them one more chance with cata, I'm finding I rather like some of the stuff I'm seeing on PTR. |
| 22:20.21 | Amarande | if I find myself pissed off at the raid circuit in cata, I'm quitting. |
| 22:20.39 | Xyphoid | blood queen is the most boring fight so far for me in icc |
| 22:20.42 | Xyphoid | but i'm offtanking |
| 22:20.51 | Amarande | because honestly, there's another reason I want to be in the raid circuit and get pissed off when it's not fun |
| 22:21.00 | Kraps | i cant wait for cata |
| 22:21.05 | Amarande | it's because of, well, something about RPGs in general |
| 22:21.12 | Amarande | see, one thing about RPGs, even though I have always *loved* the genre, is this |
| 22:21.36 | Amarande | normally, when you get handed all the really nice shinies, you get to use them once or twice, and then you watch the endgame cinematic and that's it, it's over, nothing more to do. |
| 22:21.54 | Amarande | in WoW, you get all the nice shinies and then still have plenty of things to do with them till the next content comes out. |
| 22:22.18 | Amarande | you don't get yourself attached to your character only to hear "what's that? it's final boss time! you're going to be saying goodbye!" |
| 22:22.32 | Amarande | there's always SOMETHING to do. |
| 22:22.48 | Amarande | however, in WoW, usually that something tends to require the raid circuit, because by that point anything else dies so quickly it's gotten boring |
| 22:23.09 | Amarande | you know, I think I'm going to like the more challenging heroics in Cata |
| 22:23.12 | Kraps | halo reach is the final halo game? |
| 22:23.16 | Amarande | it gives more life to the 5-man stage |
| 22:23.25 | Amarande | which seems to be where I usually get the most enjoyment out of the game |
| 22:23.44 | nicoli_s | kraps:final by bungie |
| 22:24.00 | Kraps | who has it now? |
| 22:24.06 | nicoli_s | they havent said |
| 22:24.20 | Amarande | the problem with LK is that the 5-man stage got a lot shorter and degenerated into idle farming a lot more quickly |
| 22:24.25 | nicoli_s | ive heard gear box |
| 22:24.29 | nicoli_s | which would be fucking awesome |
| 22:24.36 | Amarande | and in order to progress beyond it, you were forced into the raid logistics stuff whether you liked it or not |
| 22:24.49 | Amarande | and as you can probably tell, I hate the raid logistics stuff :) |
| 22:26.01 | Xyphoid | halls of reflection was an awesome ending to 5-man WOTLK |
| 22:26.06 | Xyphoid | i can't complain about it at all |
| 22:26.12 | Amarande | Xyphoid: yeah, I like HoR |
| 22:26.22 | Amarande | the only thing I hate about it is the stupidly long queue if you want to do it on reg on a character who doesn't qualify to do it on H yet |
| 22:26.24 | Kraps | http://store.steampowered.com/app/32370/ $2.50 :o |
| 22:26.40 | Amarande | and yes, stupidly long. I thought I had it bad with a 40 minute queue as DPS the other night |
| 22:26.54 | Amarande | then the tank told me he'd been in queue for an hour and a half. yes, the tank. in a game where tanks are used to having near instant queues. |
| 22:27.38 | Dagmar | What you should do is queue for the instance previous and when you get to the end say "Let's keep goin', we got this..." |
| 22:27.54 | Amarande | Dagmar: once you *do* get a reg HoR group, usually it queues several times in a row |
| 22:28.03 | Xyphoid | have you considered going with your friends |
| 22:28.22 | Amarande | Xyphoid: plenty of friends, not enough friends with proper roles |
| 22:28.36 | Amarande | almost all my friends are DPS |
| 22:28.47 | Amarande | and some of them are ones I *do not* want along for reg HoR on my warlock |
| 22:29.33 | Amarande | (namely: cloth caster DPS ... since I'm trying to get the cloth hat from there, so I can use my next 50 badges on the T9 robe instead ... and that damn hat never drops. I've seen the plate helm about 40 billion times to Sunday, but never the cloth one ...) |
| 22:29.58 | Amarande | do the cloth hat and the tank shield have a lower drop rate than the others, or are we just *not lucky*? :S |
| 22:30.22 | Amarande | I know there's always a lot of warriors and paladins in reg HoR because they're trying to get the tank shield from Marwyn, which is about the only really good one pre-raids now |
| 22:31.00 | Amarande | this is both a good thing (means lots of tanks, and the occasional pally healer) |
| 22:31.10 | Amarande | and a bad thing (because a lot of groups break up after Marwyn because plate bail when the shield doesn't drop :P) |
| 22:32.45 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:32.53 | Amarande | foxlit: ? |
| 22:33.11 | foxlit | I just think the quoted phrase is awesome |
| 22:33.29 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:33.35 | Amarande | Heh |
| 22:34.22 | Amarande | Xyphoid: I guess I just would like to see eventually a complete storyline done in 5-mans and raiding made completely optional storywise |
| 22:34.27 | Amarande | I guess I'm going to have to get GW2 when it comes out :S |
| 22:34.33 | Dagmar | Amarande: This is why you catch them at the PoS instance. |
| 22:34.44 | Amarande | Dagmar: actually reg PoS is queued for even less on my battlegroup |
| 22:35.01 | Dagmar | They pop quick here, because they're freaking BADGES |
| 22:35.07 | Amarande | or so it seems ... until I got the boots from garfrost, anyway, I was queuing for both PoS and HoR, and at least 90% of the time when the queue DID pop, it was HoR |
| 22:35.11 | Dagmar | If you want badges, queue the first one in regular mode |
| 22:35.52 | foxlit | "It's kinda like Goldilocks. You remember her, don't you? That little girl in the fairy tale that got eaten by bears? Too hot, too cold, just right. That's how musicians practice." |
| 22:35.53 | Amarande | I didn't really get to do reg PoS much till a couple of friends from my ICC raid were running with me because the pally (normally a tank but building a holy set) wanted the healy shield |
| 22:36.13 | Dagmar | If your group does well, they'll generally go right to the next one, and then the third, and if you get that far, the only remaining problem is trying to go back to the first one as a group |
| 22:36.20 | nicoli_s | man i love our users, check out this sentence someone made in one of our forums: "The sequerity may the reason that no other hosting site has allowed all this features?" |
| 22:36.34 | Amarande | Dagmar: that's because FoS is a scrappy instance anyway ;) |
| 22:36.54 | Amarande | I was lucky enough that I got Seethe on my first H-FoS run on my warlock :) |
| 22:37.00 | Dagmar | It would be easier if fewer players were as histrionic as you |
| 22:37.08 | Dagmar | "OMG it mite be hards!" |
| 22:37.15 | foxlit | nicoli_s: close enough |
| 22:37.15 | Amarande | Dagmar: ehh. I tough it out, but it doesn't mean I like it |
| 22:37.27 | Dagmar | I pulled forty badges in a day from those three instances |
| 22:37.31 | Amarande | especially heroic FoS, because as a gearing-up cloth caster with the amount of AoE that gets thrown around there, I'm constantly on the precipice of dying |
| 22:37.39 | Dagmar | Mainly me on my BM hunter and a guildie on his paladin |
| 22:37.50 | Amarande | PoS is sillily easy for ranged, on the other hand |
| 22:37.55 | Dagmar | Most of the time we'd fill in the other three slots from the pug queue and tell people to hold on |
| 22:38.02 | Amarande | and HoR is just about controlling the pace at which I spam SoC so I don't pull aggro and die |
| 22:38.06 | Dagmar | "hold on" as in "try and keep up" |
| 22:38.21 | Amarande | you know |
| 22:38.27 | Amarande | I'm starting to think maybe it is the case that my battlegroup just sucks |
| 22:38.34 | Dagmar | The first two can be three-manned in normal mode without stress |
| 22:38.49 | Dagmar | ...assuming you have about half T9 anyway |
| 22:38.51 | Amarande | I rolled on Turalyon because I have really good friends from elsewhere that were playing there |
| 22:39.07 | Amarande | but I'm beginning to get more and more convinced that Turalyon is not really the right place for me |
| 22:39.12 | Dagmar | I think you're maybe falling prey to an availablity error |
| 22:39.25 | Dagmar | You see a few retards and decide the whole bunch are retards |
| 22:39.54 | Dagmar | Hang onto the guys who don't suck. If you get to the end of an instance and everyone doesn't auto-drop, see if they'll queue another |
| 22:40.08 | Amarande | Yeah, whenever I do get a reg HoR I keep queuing till people have to leave |
| 22:40.17 | Dagmar | It beats the holy ratstink out of running laps in Dalaran waiting for a whole new group |
| 22:40.18 | Amarande | and thankfully people have learned about the boat, too |
| 22:40.29 | Amarande | every now and then when we requeue I have to yell at people to get off the gunship |
| 22:40.57 | Amarande | Dagmar: usually I spend my queue time flying around Sholazar Basin farming saronite :S |
| 22:41.02 | Amarande | and catching bots in the act |
| 22:41.11 | Dagmar | I don't spend a lot of time waiting in queue |
| 22:41.22 | Amarande | I think those two from the other night were bots, because I reported them a couple days ago and they're gone now |
| 22:41.31 | Dagmar | I've got a macro for "DON'T LEAVE JUST YET... Are you doing MORE heroics tonight?" |
| 22:42.02 | Amarande | although I do know tricks for competing with bots, meanwhile |
| 22:42.03 | Dagmar | When the instance went well, and only one or two people want out, we get to wait like a minute |
| 22:42.16 | Dagmar | From Dalaran, it's 10-11 minutes |
| 22:42.16 | Amarande | Most bots will fly eternally around the edge of Sholazar and pick up everything. |
| 22:42.44 | Amarande | When you see a bot while making similar circuits, just change your bearing inward a bit and cut them off (since the shortest path between two points is a straight line, assuming you've got a 280 you will do so ...) |
| 22:42.48 | Dagmar | Amarande: They're easy to kill as a hunter |
| 22:42.59 | Amarande | Dagmar: Not a PvP server. Besides, one of the bots was same faction. |
| 22:43.06 | Dagmar | You'r enot trying hard enough |
| 22:43.34 | Amarande | Also, I'm a squishy warlock and they were DKs with 22k+ HP |
| 22:43.41 | Amarande | which means they probably had some decent gear |
| 22:43.55 | Dagmar | Yet unless their bot code is ready for combat, them doing nothing about a rhino nibbling on them means they'll eventually die |
| 22:44.29 | Amarande | And with HoR, the problem is that usually eventually the healer wants out. |
| 22:44.38 | Amarande | And the healer slot is extremely hard to fill for reg HoR unless you know someone online at the time. |
| 22:44.48 | Amarande | That's why a tank was waiting an hour and a half. |
| 22:46.06 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~SeanK@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:46.24 | Amarande | I guess I could always go for a different hat ... Not sure what I can get quickly though. |
| 22:46.51 | Amarande | If I wasn't aff, I'd jump on the Triumph hat, since I already have a T8 robe and the 232 T9 one is not otherwise much of an upgrade from the 226 T8 |
| 22:47.11 | Amarande | however, 1) I'm aff, and aff wants 4PT9 more than almost anyone; 2) the T9 helm is always a bad buy. |
| 22:47.20 | Xyphoid | see, that's just wrong |
| 22:47.29 | Xyphoid | for example! you can buy the 245 chest for moneys |
| 22:47.31 | Amarande | 3) my current helm is 187, and that's causing me a bit of trouble (in particular I'm almost certain it's why I can't queue for HHoR despite having otherwise really good stuff) |
| 22:47.46 | Amarande | Xyphoid: 4PT9 for warlocks is a full +10% to both Corruption and UA |
| 22:48.08 | Amarande | I don't think the 245 chest is going to make up for that |
| 22:48.15 | Xyphoid | buy the 245 chest with money. buy the t9 hat. |
| 22:48.27 | Xyphoid | boom, 4t9 |
| 22:51.00 | cog|work | hmm |
| 22:51.14 | cog|work | "you might be a redneck if you played xbox on your wedding night" |
| 22:51.54 | cog|work | do true rednecks even have xboxes? |
| 22:52.21 | cog|work | i suppose as long as it's on a plywood and cinder block shelf... |
| 22:52.30 | Amarande | I guess another thing is I wonder if eventually there will no longer be any traditional RPGs, or if EVERYTHING is eventually going to move to the DMC-ish action or MMO paradigm |
| 22:52.31 | Dagmar | Amarande: yes, wearing a freaking heirloom will keep you out of HHoR |
| 22:52.41 | Dagmar | _Everything_ has to be 200 or higher, to be sure |
| 22:52.52 | cog|work | also, does bringing a PS2 on your honeymoon count? |
| 22:52.53 | cog|work | <.< |
| 22:52.53 | Amarande | Dagmar: yeah, I do think lowest is taken into account |
| 22:52.54 | cog|work | >.> |
| 22:53.14 | Amarande | since I think I had a 187 belt or something on the DK and couldn't even get into HHoR with full T9, 245 sigil, think I even had a badge trinket by then too |
| 22:53.21 | Xyphoid | i took my laptop on my honeymoon |
| 22:53.30 | Xyphoid | but steam didn't get into offline mode properly :( |
| 22:53.41 | Xyphoid | so i had nothing to play but cave story and nethack |
| 22:54.12 | Amarande | So eventually you'll either have to become an action gamer or a raider in order to see the end of ANY game storylines? |
| 22:54.17 | Amarande | Or will the traditional RPG live? |
| 22:54.59 | Amarande | I just *can't really do* DMC level action games very well, and MMOs almost always put the storyline end content in large raid stuff instead of normal group stuff. |
| 22:55.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (vince@adsl-76-254-23-136.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:55.17 | cbreak | Amarande: as long as I have a snes emulator, RPGs will live. |
| 22:55.24 | cbreak | long live Crono Trigger! |
| 22:55.27 | Amarande | I think Guild Wars was probably the only real exception to that paradigm |
| 22:55.30 | cog|work | something like "if you think an xbox is the booth where your wife sits in divorce court, you might be a redneck" |
| 22:55.34 | cog|work | would make more sense imo |
| 22:55.35 | Amarande | hell, I think GW only even ever had 2 dungeons that needed more than 8 |
| 22:55.40 | Amarande | and hardly anyone ever played them |
| 22:56.23 | *** part/#wowuidev hfdixus (~opera@91.192.189.123) |
| 22:56.25 | Amarande | Okay, four PvE dungeons, and two (Vizunah Square and ... what was the other one, Unwaking Waters or something) got played, but two of those paired up two 8-man groups that were formed separately. |
| 22:56.54 | Amarande | So it wasn't like you had to actually form the 16 man group on your own. |
| 22:57.21 | Amarande | cbreak: I mean in terms of new content |
| 22:57.37 | Amarande | are the days of being able to do a full RPG storyline with a small group fast approaching the end? |
| 22:57.54 | cbreak | single player games will not die. |
| 22:58.07 | cbreak | the socially inept are much too plentyfull |
| 22:58.09 | Amarande | cbreak: yeah but they're also evolving ever further away from the standard RPG |
| 22:58.30 | cbreak | I liked the Deus Ex |
| 22:58.35 | Amarande | take a look at Valkyrie Profile 2, the FF7 spinoffs or the Fullmetal Alchemist "RPGs" |
| 22:58.46 | Amarande | they're practically trying to meet the likes of Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden halfway |
| 22:59.21 | KarlKFI|work | Deus Ex ftw |
| 22:59.28 | Amarande | (while DMC, in particular, has always been evolving in an RPGish direction, with skills that level up in 3 in particular, and the whole inventory/orb system) |
| 22:59.32 | KarlKFI|work | there's a Fullmetal Alchemist rpg? |
| 22:59.36 | Amarande | Karl: two of them, in fact |
| 22:59.41 | Amarande | but note that I say "RPGs" |
| 22:59.43 | KarlKFI|work | any good? |
| 22:59.54 | Amarande | because really to me they felt like more a DMC or NG type playstyle with more visible stats |
| 23:00.11 | Amarande | I couldn't get into the first one |
| 23:00.57 | Amarande | I'm also not sure really what the appeal to game designers of large-raid battle design is, either, compared to just sticking with the standard group |
| 23:01.19 | Amarande | unless it's still that old Everquest influence rearing its ugly head |
| 23:01.32 | Amarande | EQ seems to have left a few antiquated paradigms that most MMOs continue to suffer from |
| 23:01.42 | Amarande | like the tank/nuke/heal structure and the idea of huge battle groups (raids) |
| 23:02.06 | Amarande | again, only Guild Wars that I've seen seems to have really freed itself from those |
| 23:02.25 | Amarande | (GW has no real active aggro management ... so there's basically just melee DPS, ranged DPS, utility and heals) |
| 23:02.37 | nicoli_s | and GW 2 is removing healer |
| 23:02.53 | Amarande | nicoli: that's just weird |
| 23:02.59 | Amarande | so basically it's going to be Diabloesque then |
| 23:03.08 | Xyphoid | raiding as large scale cooperative coordination game is awesome - Transformice is the most interesting development in that area i've seen |
| 23:03.14 | Amarande | (neither Diablo never really had much in the way of healing either ...) |
| 23:03.24 | Dagmar | Transformice? |
| 23:04.01 | Amarande | Xyphoid: yeah, raiding has its run |
| 23:04.03 | Amarande | er, fun |
| 23:04.10 | Amarande | I'm not sure a battle like Blood Princes would really work as a 5-man ... |
| 23:04.23 | Amarande | heh how would BPC work 5-man? you'd need two tanks still and two healers, so you'd have *one* DPS? |
| 23:04.37 | Dagmar | You tell us |
| 23:04.39 | Xyphoid | transformice is a co-op flash game where you're trying to get cheese. random players each round get powers to help the other mice get cheese |
| 23:04.47 | Dagmar | You're the one who appears to think the idea is something other than stupid. |
| 23:04.48 | Xyphoid | it's amazing |
| 23:05.02 | Dagmar | Coming up with a stupid argument does not make it invalkid. |
| 23:05.21 | Dagmar | er invalid. |
| 23:05.27 | cbreak | chewbaca is a wookie on endor. |
| 23:05.31 | Amarande | Raiding as a requirement to actually experience the major storyline events of an RPG, I think that's what's grinding my gears. |
| 23:05.54 | Amarande | Especially as the genre moves further and further into MMO and the single player stuff evolves away from RPG and towards Action Gaming. |
| 23:06.41 | Amarande | Or is the problem having an excessive love for the idea of *storyline* as of major importance to gaming? |
| 23:06.41 | Dagmar | At least in Cata we'll see the zerg guilds finally STFU |
| 23:07.09 | Amarande | Was storyline as a gaming element just only really all that important for about a 20 year phase or so, and now, like all loveliness, it fades? |
| 23:07.26 | Dagmar | Amarande: qq moar |
| 23:07.39 | Amarande | Before the mid-80s, games being mostly action elements because that's all systems really could handle (plus the coin-op paradigm encouraged it) |
| 23:08.00 | Amarande | After the late-00s, the action and social elements eclipsing the need or even desire for rich worlds and storylines? |
| 23:08.01 | Dagmar | Is there something other than ICC with storyline in WoTLK? |
| 23:08.02 | Dagmar | Yes. |
| 23:08.04 | Dagmar | Craploads. |
| 23:08.28 | Dagmar | Because one bloody raid instance involves storyline doesn't mean a thing. |
| 23:08.30 | cbreak | every quest is a mini story |
| 23:08.40 | cbreak | cataclysm has huge, connected quest series |
| 23:08.47 | Dagmar | ...and ther'es craploads of storyline that happened all the way from 71-80. |
| 23:08.50 | Amarande | cata sounds like it's going to be pretty good. :) |
| 23:09.05 | cbreak | from 81 to 82 was great |
| 23:09.09 | Amarande | maybe it's coming from years of RPGs where the storyline was never really complete until you defeat the Big Bad |
| 23:09.10 | cbreak | I did that in the underwater region |
| 23:09.18 | Amarande | but, of course, in WoW, you only get to defeat the Big Bad if you raid. |
| 23:09.34 | cbreak | 80 to 81 was less great, I did that in the half done hyajal before beta opened |
| 23:09.36 | Dagmar | Dude you play JRPGs where they make bosses that can one-shot the group for giggles, and you play them for fun. |
| 23:09.40 | Dagmar | Your judgment is warped. |
| 23:10.14 | Amarande | Dagmar: most of those tend to be side bosses or indicate that you didn't prepare properly. :) |
| 23:10.18 | Amarande | well, except Mot. |
| 23:10.26 | Dagmar | ...and maybe everyone isn't meant to go kill the baddest guy in the history of the game. |
| 23:10.27 | Dagmar | Christ |
| 23:10.29 | Amarande | I do know Mot is capable of one-shotting the group for giggles, but he rarely does. |
| 23:10.49 | Dagmar | What next? Set him up on a street corner in stocks with a sign saying "kick here"? |
| 23:10.52 | cbreak | the LK oneshots the raid for giggles. |
| 23:11.00 | Amarande | When he does, it's so cheap that it's all over youtube though :) |
| 23:11.35 | Amarande | Mot's shtick ends up something like this basically: "more turns" -> magic buff -> more turns -> magic buff -> more turns -> magic buff -> more turns -> magic buff -> more turns -> Megidolaon -> Megidolaon -> Megidolaon. |
| 23:11.48 | Dagmar | LK *should* be hard |
| 23:11.49 | Amarande | I think the second fight with Bishamon can dump that on you too |
| 23:11.53 | Amarande | but again, it almost never happens |
| 23:12.09 | Dagmar | With the 30% buff, PUGs can do 7/12 or 8/12 in there. That's good enough I'd say |
| 23:12.33 | Dagmar | I skipped the pug my GL ran in this week, and they filled in four spots and did 10 |
| 23:12.37 | Amarande | Yeah, at least I've gotten to SEE the Lich King, and even get him down to 75% on the one attempt I ever had. |
| 23:12.48 | Amarande | I was also the last survivor, too. :) |
| 23:13.34 | Amarande | Too bad we never got to see some of the more fun stuff like valkyrs dragging and dropping people though :) |
| 23:14.21 | Amarande | Dagmar: yeah, maybe everyone isn't meant to get Kingslayer |
| 23:14.33 | Amarande | like I said, I come from a long history of single player RPGs and games like GW and Diablo 2 |
| 23:14.47 | Amarande | where it's just a matter of course that you take down the big bad as a natural part of the game that everyone expects to do |
| 23:15.09 | Kraps | attempt to change tire on wheelchair: DENIED |
| 23:15.12 | Amarande | hmm |
| 23:15.14 | Kraps | :( |
| 23:15.14 | Amarande | you know |
| 23:15.21 | Amarande | I think I'm probably going to leave WoW for Diablo 3 when it comes out, actually |
| 23:15.33 | Amarande | it seems like that's probably more likely to be up my alley |
| 23:15.45 | Amarande | any word on the status of D3, btw? |
| 23:16.18 | Kraps | i heard its in development |
| 23:17.30 | Amarande | Or is actually one of the things that hurt games like GW and D2, the fact that everyone got to take down the big bad and it wasn't a special achievement for the few dedicated? |
| 23:17.51 | Amarande | That eventually there just really isn't a carrot? |
| 23:18.55 | Kraps | i dont get the whole "leaving" of game of different genres |
| 23:19.43 | NightHawkTheSane | Kraps: people like to pretend they're important, and that their presence in one game some how alters the nature of that game for others. |
| 23:20.47 | Kraps | i mean, you'll eventually pick up wow again after your initial D3 binge, for example |
| 23:21.18 | Amarande | Kraps: that depends on how good Cata is, not to mention other games like GW2 |
| 23:21.23 | Amarande | I've also considered LOTRO as well |
| 23:21.25 | foxlit | I've observed the following behavior in SC2 co-op games: some people tend to spout "noob!" at the slightest sign of doing worse than them |
| 23:21.28 | Amarande | not to mention Shin Megami Tensei online |
| 23:21.44 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: thats not limited to sc2. |
| 23:21.56 | Dagmar | foxlit: Not enough fatal beatings. |
| 23:22.00 | foxlit | And then proceed to offer no helpful information whatsoever. |
| 23:22.13 | Amarande | come to think of it, there IS one single player RPG in particular on PC I played a lot, and then never actually "finished" |
| 23:22.15 | Amarande | Morrowind. |
| 23:22.25 | Amarande | But I think that was more a burnout and boredom issue. |
| 23:22.29 | TC-Work | i did manage to finish that one |
| 23:22.33 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: yeah, thats like 90% of video gamers. |
| 23:22.36 | Amarande | I'd done the Mage's Guild, Fighter's Guild, and Tribunal Temple storylines |
| 23:22.37 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: mostly limited to coop, though -- I haven't really seen abuse from opponents in rated matches |
| 23:22.44 | Amarande | but by that point |
| 23:22.45 | Dagmar | If more of these kids got the fatal beatings they deserved when they were growing up, they would likely not be going on the internet to act like dicks to everyone else today. |
| 23:23.01 | Amarande | I was so ridiculously powerful that doing the Main Quest was just going to be dull |
| 23:23.04 | Dagmar | It's enough to make me want to have kids, just to beat them, so they'll grow up respecting others. |
| 23:23.09 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: of course, in those, its not that you're a noob, its that they're godly, because they're beating you |
| 23:23.16 | TC-Work | i never did however manage to finish neverwinter nights or BGII: throne of bhall |
| 23:23.21 | Amarande | leveled into the 50s, super high stats, plus my enchanted sword was just OP |
| 23:23.41 | Amarande | Morrowind pro tip: get a grand soul gem and put Absorb Health on hit on a melee weapon |
| 23:23.46 | Amarande | you will literally almost never die |
| 23:24.00 | Dagmar | Pssht. |
| 23:24.04 | Amarande | the only things you have to worry about are monsters immune to magic or that paralyze you |
| 23:24.05 | foxlit | Won an awesome 2v3, though |
| 23:24.15 | Amarande | and Gaenor. Oh god, Gaenor. |
| 23:24.24 | Dagmar | There's *plenty* of ways to make yourself nearly unkillable in that game. |
| 23:24.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 23:24.55 | Amarande | Gaenor is why Absorb Health is better than some other enchants though ... at least when his super likely spell reflect triggers you won't hurt yourself with it |
| 23:25.16 | Dagmar | Exploding fireballs > everyone |
| 23:25.29 | Amarande | TC: Finished both of those |
| 23:25.44 | Amarande | although Throne of Bhaal I had to use some really cheap almost to the point of exploit tricks to finish a couple fights in |
| 23:25.46 | Kraps | i'm having issues with multiple mobs in the first battle in DA:O |
| 23:25.57 | Amarande | OTOH, I've never finished the first Baldur's Gate without cheating :S |
| 23:26.03 | Dagmar | Kraps: Composition of your group? |
| 23:26.21 | Dagmar | Oh wait, the FIRST battle |
| 23:26.24 | Dagmar | dur |
| 23:26.24 | Amarande | NWN2 I haven't finished, on the other hand. It bugged up on me towards the end and I haven't felt like redoing it. |
| 23:26.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (~legorol@cpc8-sgyl28-2-0-cust43.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) |
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| 23:26.53 | Kraps | Dagmar: need to go to the tower to light something or other |
| 23:26.56 | Dagmar | Kraps: Spacebar is your friend. Do not let baddies surround you. Do not let baddies hit your clothies. Hitting from behind is good stuff for everyone, not just rogues. |
| 23:27.19 | Dagmar | ...and they give you a lot of poultices for a reason. |
| 23:27.33 | TC-Work | sadly i found NVN way to boring |
| 23:27.51 | Amarande | ToB, I'm not exactly sure how you beat Draconis or Melissan without really cheap tricks |
| 23:27.54 | TC-Work | NWN* |
| 23:28.38 | Amarande | the trick with Draconis really was an exploit ... Melissan p3 and p4 it was just cheap |
| 23:29.07 | Amarande | basically if you had an ultra high level thief with multiple instances of the Spike Trap special ability |
| 23:29.11 | Dagmar | Kraps: Seriously. Any time you don't like what's going on in combt in DA:O you should be pausing the game and figuring out where to move your people to. |
| 23:29.19 | Amarande | you could kill almost every boss without a real fight |
| 23:29.44 | Amarande | Spike Traps, when triggered, did some kind of obscene like 20-120 EACH |
| 23:29.46 | Dagmar | Pausing early and pausing often wins until you get the hang of micro-managing character positioning |
| 23:29.57 | Amarande | could be stacked on top of each other for simultaneous trigger and as far as I know the damage was completely unblockable by any and all means |
| 23:30.32 | Amarande | I was also a Wizardslayer/Thief, which meant I was basically immune to magic in ToB as well |
| 23:30.41 | amro | nwn2 slapped me in the face since they dropped linux |
| 23:30.48 | Amarande | there were maybe 3 spells in the whole game that could do anything to me |
| 23:31.00 | Amarande | granted one was an instakill but you almost never saw it used at that point |
| 23:31.37 | Amarande | UAI was just ... mega OP as well |
| 23:32.53 | Amarande | Use Any Item, which basically was exactly what it said on the tin, you could literally use anything regardless of class restrictions |
| 23:33.29 | Amarande | (although a few restrictions still existed ... UAI didn't work with aligned items, that I recall, and you still couldn't stack rings of protection, nor could mages cast spells in armor) |
| 23:34.23 | Amarande | it, too, was one of the high level Thief abilities in BG2: TOB |
| 23:34.37 | Amarande | they really did seem to go overboard at making up for the fact that thieves before this weren't all that powerful a class :) |
| 23:34.59 | Amarande | amro: nwn2 never did work with (non-wine) linux, did it? |
| 23:35.17 | amro | no, I mean since bioware dropped linux (nwn1 had a native client) |
| 23:35.29 | Amarande | bioware didn't make NWN2, though, obsidian did |
| 23:35.45 | amro | yeah I don't know anything about nwn2 |
| 23:35.49 | amro | I read no linux client, moved on |
| 23:36.22 | Amarande | Dagmar: sounds like DA:O battle strategy works a lot like the old Baldur's Gate games |
| 23:36.29 | Amarande | sounds like it's going to be fun. :) |
| 23:37.59 | Amarande | Dagmar: any particularly fun content that I have to Guide Dang It in DA:O for btw, besides blood magic? |
| 23:38.25 | Dagmar | Fight dirty. |
| 23:38.56 | Dagmar | Blood magic isn't some game-breaking OP thing, it's just another type of spell that tends to cost you hit points to cast |
| 23:39.01 | Kraps | Dagmar: also focus fire? |
| 23:39.14 | Amarande | Dagmar: I said "fun", not "game breaking OP" :) |
| 23:39.19 | Dagmar | The NPCs that talk shit about blood mages also don't seen to give a tinker's damn if you cast blood spells right in front of them. |
| 23:39.36 | Dagmar | Krpas: Oh yes. |
| 23:39.44 | Amarande | And I do remember hearing there's only one chance in the whole game to unlock it, a chance which can be rather Guide Dang It to know when. |
| 23:39.52 | Dagmar | Kraps: Particularly kill the littleest guys first |
| 23:40.01 | Kraps | stinkin mage is always oom |
| 23:40.09 | Dagmar | Amarandew: You are listening to retards. |
| 23:40.17 | Dagmar | I don't know of any other way to put that. |
| 23:40.44 | Dagmar | If you can't tell when you get the option to pick up blood magic, you are playing the game in a language you don't understand or something. |
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| 23:41.46 | foxlit | Dagmar: nah, you can avoid it entirely if you pick some dialogue trees that are seeminly okay |
| 23:41.58 | Dagmar | Kraps: The AI makes very poor decisions about when to cast AoEs by default. You will probably want to rejigger their tactics so that mainly they only buff themselves and your party and use their zapping stick |
| 23:42.41 | Dagmar | foxlit: Well, if you act squeamish about the whole idea, sure |
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| 23:50.05 | Amarande | Dagmar: sounds like the AI in Ultima VII :) |
| 23:50.20 | Amarande | For instance, just try giving Iolo a firedoom staff |
| 23:50.26 | Amarande | (This is a very bad idea unless you have a death wish.) |
| 23:50.50 | Amarande | Probably not as bad as UVII though. You could barely even give your allies ranged weapons there without getting shot in the back :P |
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| 23:54.54 | Dagmar | Oh they'll hold off on the AoEs until there's multiple targets in DA:O. Problem is they don't really take into account if your party is intermingled with those multiple targets |
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