| 00:01.20 | nevcairiel | does WoW fire some kind of frame script when an edit box loses focus? |
| 00:02.59 | Fisker | it fires your mom |
| 00:03.04 | Fisker | not gonna happen Thunder_Child |
| 00:03.15 | Thunder_Child | Fisker: they do it every year |
| 00:03.21 | MoonWitch | wtb a decent laptop :P |
| 00:03.39 | Fisker | yeah Thunder_Child |
| 00:03.50 | Thrae | MoonWitch: I can help you with that if you're serious. |
| 00:03.53 | Fisker | but i don't think they announce anything but the pet? |
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| 00:10.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@68-191-37-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 00:10.50 | Thunder_Child | Fisker: they announces everything last year |
| 00:10.55 | Thunder_Child | and the year before |
| 00:10.59 | Thunder_Child | announced* |
| 00:11.08 | Amarande | sooo ... do you think we're getting 3.3.5 on tuesday? |
| 00:11.37 | foxlit | *we* are definitely not. |
| 00:11.42 | foxlit | Not sure about you. |
| 00:11.49 | Amarande | wonders how much of a row there will be in trade chat about RS not being available on patch day :S |
| 00:12.44 | Amarande | probably involving remarks like "so the eurotrash don't QQ about not getting a head start" :P |
| 00:13.26 | Amarande | or "ensidia pulled strings with blizzard to protect their world-first chances" |
| 00:13.31 | nevcairiel | we never had a headstart on anything, US always has a day in front |
| 00:13.42 | Thrae | wonders how much of a row there will be in trade chat about a 25% ICC buff yet no buff in RS, making it harder than most of ICC with less valuable loot |
| 00:13.56 | Amarande | yeah, but the US would have got a head start for a whole week over EU towards RS world first |
| 00:14.07 | nevcairiel | is the loot in RS that bad? |
| 00:14.10 | Amarande | which basically would have probably left Ensidia and the like fuming all over the EU boards, I'm sure |
| 00:14.11 | foxlit | Is there some reason RS would count? |
| 00:14.12 | nevcairiel | i didnt really check |
| 00:14.33 | Amarande | given that that basically would give them a *zero* chance of world first, since have we even had a raid survive the first week of patch without being conquered? |
| 00:14.38 | Amarande | since wotlk came out anyway |
| 00:14.48 | foxlit | LK. |
| 00:14.56 | Amarande | foxlit: that's cheating. :P |
| 00:15.01 | foxlit | Yogg? |
| 00:15.20 | Amarande | that's like saying Sunwell wasn't conquered first week of patch, well of course since you couldn't even reach KJ for a couple months :) |
| 00:15.28 | Amarande | I'm foggy on when Uld was first conquered |
| 00:15.46 | nevcairiel | first week, i'm sure |
| 00:15.47 | Amarande | I can imagine Ensidia getting pissed at losing a chance at world first if they hadn't done the delay thing for the US, though |
| 00:15.54 | Amarande | since that's basically the whole POINT of that guild from what I've gathered |
| 00:16.03 | Amarande | their whole reason for EXISTING seems to be competing for world firsts on raids :P |
| 00:16.07 | Thrae | Honestly I wish they'd apply the ICC buff to all the end-game raids. It's a broken system right now, IMHO. Once you beat LK (which will be even easier come Tuesday) you get access to Heroic ICC and all its glory, yet there's still cool stuff in other raids...except they're HARDER, so it's harder to get a group going, especially 25-man |
| 00:16.22 | nevcairiel | what other raids? |
| 00:16.31 | Amarande | nev: togc25, uld25hm? |
| 00:16.47 | nevcairiel | pff uld25hm, we did all of those in a pug |
| 00:16.53 | foxlit | Amarande: I'm foggy on when Uld was first conquered << I imagine the same applies to all other bosses. |
| 00:16.58 | Thrae | It doesn't make sense the end-end-game raid of WotLK is becoming easier than previous raids (for most Normal/Heroic fights) |
| 00:17.03 | Amarande | ToGC25 is if anything harder than ICCH25, though |
| 00:17.15 | nevcairiel | togc25 isnt really hard |
| 00:17.27 | nevcairiel | just requires a constant attention span |
| 00:17.32 | foxlit | Anub says Hi. |
| 00:17.37 | Amarande | some still say anub25h is the hardest raid boss in wotlk, even harder than arthas |
| 00:17.44 | Thrae | nevcairiel: Well right now, 25-man content has different drops than 10-man content, but some of the best stuff for class/spec is still found in *previous* raids. |
| 00:17.58 | nevcairiel | i beat anub25h, arthas not, i disagree :P |
| 00:17.59 | Amarande | given how much of a pain in the ass he is even in azjol-nerub, I'm not surprised if the raid version is that hard :) |
| 00:18.01 | foxlit | "hardest" isn't a fair assessment, since what you do is trivial. |
| 00:19.02 | foxlit | It just has a lower bar on individual failure. |
| 00:19.17 | Thrae | I'm going to enjoy the combination of 10/25 in Cataclysm, as it's been a royal pain to use stuff like "[The Black Heart]" without a truly good replacement even in Heroic *10-man* ICC. |
| 00:19.24 | foxlit | Missed a heal on penetrating cold? Someone dies. |
| 00:19.32 | Amarande | so is the NDA active or not right now? |
| 00:19.38 | Amarande | Ensidia's site is claiming that it was lifted |
| 00:19.44 | Cide | what nda? |
| 00:19.52 | Thrae | foxlit: AFAIK, needing to heal on Penetrating Cold is a failure of someone else, not the healer ;) |
| 00:19.53 | Amarande | and that was posted just six days ago so it's not the old mistake announcement that sparked mmo-champion and such before |
| 00:19.53 | kd3 | it hasn't been. just the press event NDA |
| 00:19.53 | Cide | looks around |
| 00:19.55 | Amarande | Cide: cata |
| 00:20.07 | Cide | Amarande fails |
| 00:20.11 | Amarande | kd3: you know, that sounds like the dumbest legal idea EVER |
| 00:20.14 | Amarande | "press event NDA" |
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| 00:20.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 00:20.19 | Thrae | foxlit: Oh wait...I mixed up Penetrating Cold with Blistering Cold |
| 00:20.21 | Cide | what? |
| 00:20.31 | kd3 | they just wanted everyone to release it the same day. that stuff happens /all the time/ |
| 00:20.36 | Cide | ^ |
| 00:20.41 | Amarande | "hey, let's invite the press to have a look at this but they can't talk about it so what's the point since they're *press*" |
| 00:20.48 | Cide | wow |
| 00:20.49 | Cide | you're dumb |
| 00:20.53 | Cide | it was lifted remember? |
| 00:20.54 | Amarande | kd3: I'm going to suppose the New York Times wasn't invited, either :) |
| 00:21.04 | kd3 | they're not fansite gaming press, so... no |
| 00:21.07 | foxlit | :/ |
| 00:21.11 | Thrae | foxlit: btw, did my druid macros help any? |
| 00:21.35 | Amarande | heh, I was more thinking that every five minutes the more conservative papers are QQing about how "the New York Times puts the country in danger by divulging stuff that has no place in public news" etc :P |
| 00:21.50 | foxlit | Thrae: well, it was interesting to see as inspiration :) |
| 00:22.03 | Amarande | the New York Post, in particular, constantly whines about the NYT in that way |
| 00:22.07 | Thrae | Amarande: http://probablybadnews.com/2010/05/14/funny-news-can-we-not-pick-the-wrong-direction/ <-- an example of the NYT polls ;) |
| 00:22.19 | foxlit | I'm not sure whether I want to use /castsequence in some of those ways |
| 00:22.44 | Thrae | foxlit: To answer your earlier question, yes, Growl should only be used as a Taunt and only when specifically needed |
| 00:23.02 | foxlit | I'm not sure what I asked. |
| 00:23.33 | Fisker | btw Amarande |
| 00:23.36 | Fisker | i'm late to the troll |
| 00:23.37 | foxlit | I think the only context growl was mentioned in was that it competes for a glyph slot with Maul :) |
| 00:23.45 | Fisker | but you do know that RS will be delayed in the US by a week right? |
| 00:23.47 | Thrae | foxlit: It reduces the number of buttons I have to press. In fact, if you use the "Swipe+" macro you can just (very sadly) spam that for 99% of the tanking encounters running dungeons. |
| 00:24.05 | Amarande | Fisker: yeah, I was commenting earlier on the probability of a row in trade chat over it |
| 00:24.07 | Fisker | (Of course the fight is probably fucking easy and will take a guild less than a day to take, even on hard mode but still) |
| 00:24.16 | Amarande | Fisker: that may be why |
| 00:24.35 | Amarande | I imagine there was considerable pressure from Ensidia and the like to make the US wait a week in order to ensure that they still had a chance at world first at all |
| 00:24.50 | Fisker | doubt it really |
| 00:24.55 | Amarande | and it *does* seem that Blizzard gives weight to the concerns of top raid guilds |
| 00:24.56 | DJJeff | ~seen StrifeCUK |
| 00:24.57 | purl | DJJeff: i haven't seen 'strifecuk' |
| 00:25.11 | Fisker | US have always had atleast a 12 hour headstart |
| 00:25.16 | Amarande | (as opposed to top arena players, who Blizzard appears to hate the guts of heh) |
| 00:25.19 | Thrae | foxlit: One thing I found important later on was to have FFF available as its own cast. I can sometimes use it to draw faraway enemies into the group without using up a taunt CD. |
| 00:25.44 | nevcairiel | FFF should silence |
| 00:25.47 | nevcairiel | now that would rock |
| 00:25.51 | Amarande | FFF? Fast Faction Farming? |
| 00:25.53 | Amarande | Oh, that's Guild Wars. |
| 00:25.54 | Amarande | LOL |
| 00:25.58 | foxlit | If they're melee, I'm sure they'll run through my swipe eventually |
| 00:26.05 | Amarande | still remembers the days of Kurzick FFF groups |
| 00:26.09 | foxlit | If they're a caster, I'm probably not going to hold threat with FFF. |
| 00:26.14 | Fisker | Ensidia got a 3-day ban for "exploiting" LK |
| 00:26.27 | Amarande | Fisker: heh, what did they do? |
| 00:26.29 | Thrae | foxlit: Also, when you're taunting something off someone and it's not in immediate Swipe range, you should follow up with a FFF so you have top threat and not *mirrored* threat (which is what a Taunt can do depending on threat levels) |
| 00:26.37 | Fisker | Amarande they played the game |
| 00:26.48 | Amarande | I wonder if it's mentioned on their site what methods they used that they got razzed for |
| 00:26.55 | Amarande | or if they were told by Blizzard not to say on pain of longer bans :P |
| 00:26.57 | olafski | extensively |
| 00:27.03 | Fisker | Siege damage rebuilt the platforms around the LK place |
| 00:27.11 | Fisker | Which made it impossible for people to die from Val'Kyrs |
| 00:27.19 | Thrae | nevcairiel: They say in Cata Bash will have some type of silence component. Probably a school lock. |
| 00:27.27 | Amarande | Fisker: well, yes, they do seem to frown upon strategies that make mobs impotent |
| 00:27.29 | nevcairiel | but bash is melee |
| 00:27.32 | Amarande | much to the hatred of us ranged types |
| 00:27.34 | Fisker | but Siege Damage is a side component of engineering grenades which is the highest dps upgrade for the profession |
| 00:27.37 | foxlit | Doesn't it already interrupt? |
| 00:27.38 | nevcairiel | well i guess you can charge there, bash, and run back |
| 00:27.42 | Amarande | because it's always seemed to me like it oughtta be a perfectly legitimate strategy as ranged |
| 00:27.45 | Fisker | so basically they played like they always did |
| 00:27.49 | Fisker | And they got a 3 day ban for it |
| 00:27.50 | Amarande | to stand in a place the mobs can't get to and rain death on them :) |
| 00:27.59 | Amarande | after all, that's how ranged fighters work in just about every OTHER game |
| 00:28.02 | nevcairiel | bash, interrupt? is that new? |
| 00:28.05 | Thrae | foxlit: Interrupts yes, silence no (whic is what nevcairiel was asking for) |
| 00:28.14 | Amarande | do that in wow though, and either a) the mob will just evade, or b) it will find a path anyway and have about 30 mobs following it when it does :) |
| 00:28.21 | foxlit | nevcairiel: relatively |
| 00:28.47 | foxlit | They added interrupts onto various incapacitating effects when used against non-player characters. |
| 00:28.53 | Amarande | Thrae: school locks being more common in cata? |
| 00:29.01 | Amarande | that doesn't seem like it makes sense, unless it's a pve thing only |
| 00:29.06 | Thrae | nevcairiel: FFF is already a little unfair to Warriors. Making it silence (or even school lock) would be worse. |
| 00:29.06 | nevcairiel | i assume that works on stun-immune as well? |
| 00:29.11 | Thrae | Amarande: I believe I read that, yes |
| 00:29.12 | Amarande | school locks are something that's going to have to be seriously examined for balance in cata, really, for pvp reasons |
| 00:29.13 | foxlit | nevcairiel: Exactly the point |
| 00:29.24 | Amarande | primarily because of all the two-school spells that are being introduced |
| 00:29.35 | Amarande | and as FFB mages know, a silence on a two-school spell basically ENTIRELY disables you |
| 00:29.38 | Thrae | Amarande: Well, school locks as opposed to a full silence. Wouldn't you rather be school locked than a full silence? |
| 00:29.43 | Amarande | because apparently it locks out both |
| 00:29.48 | foxlit | ... and then you cast AM/AB. |
| 00:29.57 | Amarande | foxlit: yeah, that works for mages |
| 00:30.01 | nevcairiel | i heard AM is supposed to be good for everyone in cata |
| 00:30.05 | Amarande | it may not be as viable when other classes get dual school spells |
| 00:30.24 | Amarande | mainly because not every class has a third damage dealing school like mages do |
| 00:30.29 | Thrae | Amarande: For example, a Druid doesn't have any Silences, which is one of the things they want to fix...maybe for Boomkins too |
| 00:30.44 | foxlit | Boomkins get a silence |
| 00:30.45 | nevcairiel | boomkins have this talent that silences |
| 00:30.47 | Amarande | interrupts being able to completely stop DPS with no recourse would seem to OP them |
| 00:30.48 | nevcairiel | this sun beam |
| 00:30.54 | Thrae | Oh right |
| 00:30.56 | nevcairiel | even reachable for resto |
| 00:30.58 | nevcairiel | kinda nice |
| 00:31.05 | Thrae | Well, Ferals don't |
| 00:31.06 | Amarande | since if FFB is the prototype, I imagine the dual school spells are going to be staples for DPS at 85 |
| 00:31.24 | Amarande | consider, say, warlocks |
| 00:31.29 | Amarande | they're getting some sort of shadow/fire thing right? |
| 00:31.33 | nevcairiel | they already introduced all new spells |
| 00:31.36 | olafski | weren't they going to change those dual lockouts? |
| 00:31.39 | nevcairiel | and dont warlocks already have one? |
| 00:31.39 | Amarande | if that gets a school lockout, the locks are going to be completely SOL |
| 00:31.45 | Amarande | because fire and shadow is all locks have |
| 00:31.50 | DJJeff | with eighty seven (87) addons my wow.exe just hit the 1GB of ram usage X_X in task manager |
| 00:31.54 | foxlit | Find out whether they are before you go on a 10-line explanation of the obvious :) |
| 00:32.01 | foxlit | It could just as easily be shadowfrost. |
| 00:32.06 | Amarande | not that blizzard seems to like locks much anyway heh |
| 00:32.26 | nevcairiel | isnt chaos bolt fire/shadow already? or am i mis-remembering things? |
| 00:32.26 | Thrae | DJJeff: The number of addons doesn't matter. It's what type of addon they are -- such as database addons can use up tons of memory. |
| 00:33.05 | Thrae | DJJeff: Anyway, WoW has 2GB so that's fine. I don't think it can even fit the main MPQ in there anymore regardless. You'll be a-swapin'. |
| 00:33.15 | foxlit | nevcairiel: "Sends a bolt of chaotic fire at the enemy, dealing 1429 to 1813 Fire damage" |
| 00:33.16 | Amarande | no, chaos bolt is fire only |
| 00:33.22 | nevcairiel | hm, guess not |
| 00:33.29 | NightHawkTheSane | protip: the instant you say "blizzard doesn't like <class/profession/whatever>" you instantly become 100% wrong. |
| 00:33.32 | Amarande | but penetrates all resistance effects so it has some similar benefits to the dual schools |
| 00:33.41 | Amarande | Night: I'm trying to think of the last time warlocks got love |
| 00:33.48 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: i dont care. you're wrong. |
| 00:33.54 | Amarande | while I can think of countless cases of warlock hate over my time having played one |
| 00:34.05 | foxlit | Amarande: it's not warlocks. |
| 00:34.10 | Alram | im gonna go with Fisker on this |
| 00:34.13 | Amarande | 2.3 basically making them UNVIABLE for pvp for the rest of BC ... |
| 00:34.15 | foxlit | Blizzard is out to nerf *you*, personally. |
| 00:34.21 | Amarande | WotLK giving them constant issues with threat ... |
| 00:34.21 | Thrae | Amarande: "Resistance Effects"? Remember, the actual Resist stat is going away with Cata (along with penetration). |
| 00:34.37 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: see, that's at least saner. :P |
| 00:34.38 | Amarande | Thrae: I presume they also meant things like PW:S |
| 00:34.39 | nevcairiel | resistance is going away completly? |
| 00:34.46 | nevcairiel | what about those resist-gear-fights?! |
| 00:34.52 | Thrae | nevcairiel: Haha |
| 00:34.58 | foxlit | nevcairiel: a mechanic fun for no one involved. |
| 00:34.59 | Amarande | heh, it's going to be fun to see what the resist gear is going to be restatted as |
| 00:35.21 | Thrae | nevcairiel: It is fun to put on a huge suit of +Frost Resist and mitigate 50% of Sindragosa's damage |
| 00:35.23 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: when was the last time there WAS a resist fight? |
| 00:35.29 | Amarande | Night: sindragosa, and sapphiron |
| 00:35.33 | Amarande | before that, mother shahraz |
| 00:35.37 | nevcairiel | sapphiron |
| 00:35.38 | nevcairiel | shh |
| 00:35.38 | Amarande | and that's about all I can remember after classic |
| 00:35.43 | nevcairiel | we never wore a piece of resist |
| 00:35.52 | Amarande | oh wait, arcane resistance was often worn by starter kara raids |
| 00:35.55 | Amarande | but I forget exactly why |
| 00:35.57 | nevcairiel | sindragosa for the tank only |
| 00:36.10 | olafski | we used some frost resist on hodir at first |
| 00:36.16 | NightHawkTheSane | sapph only half counts, you can outgear that resistance |
| 00:36.18 | foxlit | Huhuran. |
| 00:36.24 | Amarande | what was the reason for using Arcane resistance on Kara? |
| 00:36.25 | Thrae | Sindragosa is a "resist fight" but it's not necessary, especially with the buff going up to 25% |
| 00:36.28 | nevcairiel | but yeah, mother shahraz was a big one |
| 00:36.29 | Amarande | foxlit: yeah, I was mainly speaking of BC and later |
| 00:36.38 | Thrae | NightHawkTheSane: Technically you can outgear Sindragosa too... |
| 00:36.39 | Amarande | classic had a ton of resist fights |
| 00:36.39 | olafski | foxlit: ragnaros :-) |
| 00:36.52 | Amarande | to the point that half the time you could hardly ever raid in BiS gear because you had to keep swapping in res gear for half the fights :P |
| 00:36.53 | Thrae | Outgear + Buff |
| 00:36.55 | nevcairiel | i dont remember wearing fire resist on ragnaros tbh |
| 00:36.55 | foxlit | olafski: I don't think I ever got FR for that. |
| 00:36.57 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: which really only proves my point that there hasn't been a true resist fight the entire expansion has there? |
| 00:36.58 | foxlit | Silly lava cores! |
| 00:37.08 | NightHawkTheSane | one you can't (reasonably) outgear |
| 00:37.11 | olafski | foxlit: but most other people probably did +) |
| 00:37.11 | Amarande | Night: Sapph when 3.0 was still new? |
| 00:37.20 | Cide | that's a strange argument NightHawkTheSane |
| 00:37.27 | Amarande | before people had access to Ulduar and later gear? |
| 00:37.31 | nevcairiel | I re-iterate: we never wore frost resist on sapphiron |
| 00:37.33 | Cide | I bet you don't need resist gear for hydross now |
| 00:37.44 | nevcairiel | and we downed him second week into wotlk |
| 00:37.48 | Thrae | NightHawkTheSane: You can technically outgear a lot of mechanics. It doesn't mean they weren't designed in there. And I'm not sure how outgearing mechanics will work in Cata...might not change. |
| 00:37.54 | Amarande | anyway, the main things that make me think blizzard doesn't have much love for warlocks |
| 00:38.07 | Amarande | are the fact that they basically, as of 2.3, made them almost entirely unviable for PvP until WotLK came out |
| 00:38.17 | nevcairiel | who plays pvp anyway |
| 00:38.23 | Amarande | and that they seem to do little to nothing to alleviate the constant threat issues locks have that NO other ranged DPS really wrestles with |
| 00:38.24 | nevcairiel | its a pve game, realize that already =P |
| 00:38.31 | Thrae | NightHawkTheSane: For instance, lots of people don't kite PP around the room anymore due to Gear + Buff. That's another mechanic gone. And there's changes in # of healers, positioning, etc. all over ICC |
| 00:38.35 | foxlit | soul *cough* shatter. |
| 00:38.40 | olafski | I'm with nighthawkthesane |
| 00:38.42 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae, Cide: My point was that the 'resist' fights currently in wrath are designed to be eventually overcome, if you even needed the resists to begin with. While you could eventually outgear hydross, or mother, you weren't really meant to. |
| 00:38.44 | Amarande | (except maybe mages, and that's just because their dps is so ginormous ... we're talking warlocks had ridiculously high threat compared to DPS) |
| 00:38.49 | olafski | when you say blizzard has a grudge against your class you're instantly 100% wrong |
| 00:38.58 | Amarande | foxlit: soulshatter is the weakest threat drop in the game |
| 00:38.59 | nevcairiel | You know what i really hate in encounters |
| 00:39.05 | nevcairiel | when they get easier, you drop healers |
| 00:39.09 | Thunder_Child | getting killed |
| 00:39.09 | Cide | NightHawkTheSane, a resist fight is defined by what it's like at entry level, not at the end of an expansion |
| 00:39.16 | Amarande | only 50%, and has a craptastic CD to boot |
| 00:39.20 | nevcairiel | and us poor healers only have the choice to either respec dps |
| 00:39.22 | nevcairiel | or sit out |
| 00:39.24 | nevcairiel | its really not fun |
| 00:39.26 | Thrae | NightHawkTheSane: Cide ^^ |
| 00:39.28 | Amarande | compare to say hunter feign death which drops ALL threat and has a trivial cooldown |
| 00:39.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 00:39.32 | foxlit | Amarande: compare to classes that have no threat drop |
| 00:39.34 | Amarande | (and if that's too long, you have readiness) |
| 00:39.38 | NightHawkTheSane | Cide: i'm not even talking about the end of the expansion, though, sapph & hodir were easily geared out of before the end of that content tier |
| 00:39.53 | Cide | yeah, but you still needed resists in order to beat it in any reasonably fast fashion |
| 00:39.54 | Thrae | BTW, if you guys think the spells in Cataclysm aren't going to change from Alpha->Beta->Release, you're 100% wrong |
| 00:40.01 | Amarande | also, Soulshatter requires a reagent, while FD does not |
| 00:40.02 | NightHawkTheSane | Cide: not really, no. |
| 00:40.08 | Amarande | basically, locks have the weakest threat drop in the game of any class that has one |
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| 00:40.16 | nevcairiel | Cide: we never wore frost resist on either, and we killed them shortly after their release |
| 00:40.18 | Amarande | and yet possibly the worst TPS/DPS ratio of all DPS classes |
| 00:40.33 | NightHawkTheSane | you pretty much had to NOT wear resist gear to do hard mode hodir, which was basically a dps race. |
| 00:40.36 | Cide | /shrug, I haven't even done ANY of them |
| 00:40.42 | Thrae | Amarande: Is there a Cata fix incoming? |
| 00:40.46 | Cide | I'm just talking in general |
| 00:40.56 | Amarande | I can understand it in a *few* ways (Aff comes to mind, where understandably you're building healing threat on top of DPS threat when siphon life is active) |
| 00:40.58 | Cide | you can't say "well eventually you don't need resistances so it's not a resist fight" |
| 00:41.05 | Cide | if you don't need them at entry level then I can agree |
| 00:41.06 | Amarande | but lock spells in general seem to cause an awful lot of threat, even when you're not using searing pain |
| 00:41.14 | Gnarfoz | blah blah blah |
| 00:41.16 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: stop |
| 00:41.20 | NightHawkTheSane | Cide: my original point was that blizz is basically moving away from "this is a pure resist fight we dont intend you to outgear within the tier" to one where "resists can be useful, but not absolutely needed" |
| 00:41.22 | Gnarfoz | ranting! |
| 00:41.23 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 00:41.30 | nevcairiel | a resist fight is for me something like shahraz, where the whole instance drops reagents for resist items, and without them you basically always die |
| 00:41.38 | olafski | yeah the rest of the people moved on to the next topic 30 lines ago :P |
| 00:41.47 | kd3 | looks at huhupants and sighs |
| 00:41.47 | Amarande | heh, do you still need shadow res for shahraz even now on ach runs? |
| 00:41.51 | Gnarfoz | no |
| 00:41.55 | Amarande | or does wotlk gear finally fix that :) |
| 00:41.56 | Thrae | Amarande: Wouldn't the change to Mana management in Cataclysm cause a change in *every* caster's TPS/DPS ratio and, overall, how they handle Threat and DPS? |
| 00:41.58 | kd3 | yay running /mara/ to get enough +NR |
| 00:42.12 | Amarande | kd3: hey, I like Mara |
| 00:42.14 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: i'd agree, but I prefer the definition that it's a fight youre not meant to beat without resist gear while you're still in that tier of content. |
| 00:42.20 | Cide | you don't after 3 weeks of grinding maraudon at 60 |
| 00:42.25 | kd3 | ^ |
| 00:42.26 | kd3 | ^^^^^ |
| 00:42.36 | Amarande | it's pretty, its only problem is that it's far too easy to get lost :P |
| 00:42.36 | nevcairiel | I still liked AQ, fwiw |
| 00:42.36 | Cide | or silithus |
| 00:42.45 | Amarande | and really, it's easier to get lost in ST than Mara, anyway :) |
| 00:42.56 | Cide | AQ was fun |
| 00:42.58 | Cide | I even liked huhuran |
| 00:43.00 | Amarande | and at least mara doesn't involve getting lost before you even reach the instance (*cough* Deadmines *cough* ST) |
| 00:43.02 | Jamash | I hope they put in instance maps for the old world in cata |
| 00:43.03 | Cide | but I was a healer in the back |
| 00:43.07 | Thrae | Especially since one of the ways Warriors and Feral Druids keep threat from especially high DPS'rs is "Infinite Rage" and we won't have that anymore, so it'll be a different game there too. |
| 00:43.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Slackwise (~slackwise@c-98-228-240-33.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 00:43.10 | Jamash | Amarande: Yes it does |
| 00:43.24 | olafski | maraudon is easily as bad as deadmines |
| 00:43.28 | nevcairiel | you never got lost in front of mara looking for the orange entrance? |
| 00:43.42 | NightHawkTheSane | i still get lost on orange side :( |
| 00:43.49 | kd3 | AQ was fun unless you were on medivh trying to get world firsts because we were the first ones to get the instance open |
| 00:43.49 | Amarande | nev: the instance entrances I always had an easy enough time finding |
| 00:43.51 | NightHawkTheSane | (outside the instance, that is) |
| 00:44.01 | Amarande | it was finding my way back out afterwards that usually was a bitch, if anything |
| 00:44.02 | kd3 | then it was running shit nonstop for a week |
| 00:44.08 | Jamash | I'm still lost looking for mara |
| 00:44.15 | Amarande | or finding my way back in while dead so you can't see the crystal colors |
| 00:44.20 | nevcairiel | AQ opening was a fun design as well |
| 00:44.25 | nevcairiel | sadly they would never do that again |
| 00:44.30 | Thrae | Which reminds me -- I need to update my Beta Profile for B.Net due to my new computer specs |
| 00:44.31 | nevcairiel | guilds would scream too much |
| 00:44.32 | Jamash | I got the Explorer achievement because I still can't find the orange entrance |
| 00:44.51 | Amarande | nev: actually, cata would be the perfect opportunity for another AQ opening type scenario |
| 00:45.02 | Amarande | now that the restriction on alliance-horde ingame communication is being at least partially lifted |
| 00:45.05 | Gnarfoz | hehe, alpha is back to classic login screen now *cough* |
| 00:45.05 | nevcairiel | the world-first guilds would complain all over the forums |
| 00:45.15 | Amarande | which makes a cooperative ally/horde scenario like AQ more viable :) |
| 00:45.29 | Jamash | what's this about communication restrictions being lifted? Do you mean realid? |
| 00:45.30 | nevcairiel | oh i shall get the alpha patch |
| 00:45.35 | Amarande | speaking of which, is 3.3.5 likely to come with a Terms of Service change to accommodate the RealID stuff? |
| 00:45.44 | nevcairiel | wth |
| 00:45.45 | NightHawkTheSane | haven't we been over this? |
| 00:45.47 | nevcairiel | 1.1 gb patch |
| 00:45.49 | Amarande | (ToS hasn't changed since before wrath, IIRC heh) |
| 00:45.57 | Thrae | Operating System: Windows 2.6.1.7600 () |
| 00:45.58 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: that's the previous one |
| 00:46.04 | nevcairiel | meh |
| 00:46.04 | Thrae | Whoops |
| 00:46.09 | nevcairiel | i should start that more often |
| 00:46.09 | Amarande | Thrae: you run wow on Windows 2.x? :) |
| 00:46.16 | Thrae | Operating System: Windows 2.6.1.7600 ( |
| 00:46.24 | Thrae | Gah why it does it keep putting in a return |
| 00:46.26 | nevcairiel | seriously, where does the 2 come from? |
| 00:46.26 | Amarande | Jamash: yes, RealID will allow you to chat with your RealID friends regardless of faction |
| 00:46.47 | Jamash | I know, I was just clarifying that that was the change you were referring to |
| 00:46.48 | Thrae | Oh, probably because of the table form...dammit |
| 00:46.54 | olafski | that still doesn't mean they want horde and alliance to work together I imagine |
| 00:46.57 | Amarande | suspects this means we'd better come up with secret channels for city defense :) |
| 00:47.12 | Amarande | and probably for world pvp in general heh |
| 00:47.29 | Gnarfoz | you're a bit late with that idea |
| 00:47.35 | Amarande | otherwise, there will be *some* joker who will spoil the party by alerting the other faction to a trade channel pug forming |
| 00:47.51 | olafski | we already have these channels |
| 00:47.53 | Gnarfoz | you act like this isn't the way it's been for the last 5 years. |
| 00:47.55 | olafski | just type /g and start typing your message |
| 00:48.06 | Amarande | not that I really care, unless it's a city that I'm actually trying to get quest stuff in at the time |
| 00:48.18 | Amarande | and really, if horde wants to kill wrynn, be my guest, I hate wrynn anyway :P |
| 00:48.30 | nevcairiel | it doesnt really disturb your questing anyway |
| 00:48.31 | Amarande | just don't kill the auctioneers or the inscription supplies vendor :P |
| 00:48.35 | nevcairiel | you are not flagged in your own city |
| 00:48.42 | nevcairiel | and they usually dont kill all that much npcs |
| 00:48.48 | Amarande | nev: I was thinking more of quest essential NPCs being killed |
| 00:48.52 | Thrae | Operating System: Windows 2.6.1.7600 () | CPU Type: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz | CPU Speed (GHz): 4.01 | System Memory (GB): 11.991 | Video Card Model: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 | Video Card Driver: nvd3dum.dll | Desktop Resolution: 2560x1600 | Hard Disk Size (GB): 1,863.019 | Hard Disk Free Space (GB): 1,214.551 |
| 00:48.54 | olafski | pretty annoying if some douche is killing the flightmaster in westfall >_< |
| 00:48.59 | Amarande | I know when Ally invaded cities sometimes on my Horde server they'd kill the auctioneers |
| 00:49.13 | nevcairiel | i remember when they took some flightmaster hostage |
| 00:49.13 | Gnarfoz | Thrae: os version still wrong ;p |
| 00:49.16 | nevcairiel | kited him elsewhere |
| 00:49.20 | nevcairiel | and kept him there |
| 00:49.28 | olafski | I imagine GMs consider that griefing |
| 00:49.29 | Amarande | heh nev, I never saw the pvp strategic point to that |
| 00:49.30 | Thrae | Gnarfoz: No it's not ;) Go into Safe Mode silly |
| 00:49.34 | Thunder_Child | ~waffles |
| 00:49.35 | purl | make waffles && make syrup && fork(waffles) |
| 00:49.42 | Gnarfoz | Thrae: windows 6.1 is correct |
| 00:49.43 | Amarande | that keeps people from flying *out* of the affected town, but doesn't keep defenders from pouring in |
| 00:49.48 | Gnarfoz | windows 2.6 is not |
| 00:49.55 | Amarande | because the FM doesn't actually have to be alive at the *destination* to take a gryphon |
| 00:50.06 | Amarande | though yeah it can be a pita at times |
| 00:50.07 | olafski | yes I'm sure nobody else has noticed that amarande |
| 00:50.12 | olafski | great observation :P |
| 00:50.14 | Amarande | especially if you're in the teens on horde :P |
| 00:50.23 | olafski | it's just to annoy people, no strategic advantage |
| 00:50.27 | Amarande | where you're likely to be hearthed in XR, then you log in to find XR's under attack and you have to walk :P |
| 00:50.30 | nevcairiel | they were not fighting at the flight masters location |
| 00:50.30 | olafski | or to feel superior I guess ;p |
| 00:50.37 | nevcairiel | apparently you could kite him reaaaly far |
| 00:50.40 | nevcairiel | and alliance didnt find him |
| 00:50.58 | Amarande | nev: wow, never heard of that one |
| 00:51.11 | nevcairiel | some GM resolved it later |
| 00:51.11 | Amarande | the big kites I seem to remember were people kiting the ?? Boss dragon from blasted lands to SW |
| 00:51.18 | Amarande | and people kiting fel reavers to shattrath |
| 00:51.21 | nevcairiel | that was fun too |
| 00:51.28 | Amarande | the latter may actually still be possible, I've not tried |
| 00:51.33 | Thrae | Gnarfoz: The 2.6.1.7000 is a correct return, it's just usually the "2" is ignored since it doesn't stand for anything meaningful |
| 00:51.36 | nevcairiel | nah, he leashes now |
| 00:51.40 | Amarande | the former was apparently fixed in a REALLY obnoxious way |
| 00:51.42 | Gnarfoz | Thrae: return from what, your broken dll? |
| 00:51.53 | Amarande | as a warlock, I HATE HATE HATE how they fixed the blasted lands dragon kite :( |
| 00:52.00 | Gnarfoz | Thrae: run "ver" or "winver", that's the version number *shrug* |
| 00:52.07 | Amarande | my DK probably wouldn't be too much happier either |
| 00:52.23 | Amarande | but at least her DPS wouldn't be thrown as far in the toilet as the lock's |
| 00:52.34 | Gnarfoz | also HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\CurrentVersion = 6.1 |
| 00:52.35 | Thrae | Gnarfoz: From SystemCheck.exe, which probably uses some legacy Win32 API call from the XP days to get the version number instead of the correct one for Vista/7 |
| 00:52.54 | Amarande | but yeah, when they fix a city kite by making a mob that's already immune to fire (IIRC) totally immune to dots as well |
| 00:52.56 | Gnarfoz | wtf is systemcheck.exe :D |
| 00:53.05 | Amarande | gee thanks, you just made me unable to damage this mob at all except with shadowbolt spam |
| 00:53.10 | Thrae | Gnarfoz: You never opted-in to the Blizzard betas? |
| 00:53.21 | Gnarfoz | lol, that |
| 00:53.32 | Thrae | Gnarfoz: SystemCheck_enUS.exe is the file ;) |
| 00:53.46 | Cide | that's the government spying on your computer specs |
| 00:53.47 | Gnarfoz | so Blizzard's tools now say what version Windows is and are the higher authority than windows itself ;) |
| 00:53.48 | Amarande | how disruptive could it have been to kite that dragon to SW? |
| 00:53.52 | Amarande | it's not like it's that uber |
| 00:53.57 | nevcairiel | usually they just make a mob leash at a specific point |
| 00:53.59 | nevcairiel | its no magic |
| 00:54.01 | Amarande | weak enough that shadowbolt spam was good enough to take it down at least heh |
| 00:54.03 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: it's pitiful and boring. Kazzak was nice. |
| 00:54.27 | Thrae | Gnarfoz: No, I'm saying that the program (Blizzard's tool) is using the wrong call or concatonating something it shouldn't. |
| 00:54.43 | Gnarfoz | so how does that end up in your IRC spam thingy? :P |
| 00:55.00 | nevcairiel | he probably copy pasted |
| 00:55.09 | Thrae | Gnarfoz: I copy & pasted it. I run IRC on my server... |
| 00:55.25 | Gnarfoz | former info: makes sense, latter info: wtf, unrelated |
| 00:55.26 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 00:55.51 | Thrae | Gnarfoz: It's not unrelated, since if I run it on my server, I can't do some script command to grab my desktop's specs now can I? :D |
| 00:56.09 | Thrae | I would be giving you my server's specs, which ARE unrelated. |
| 00:56.35 | Gnarfoz | not sure what you're getting at, why would you run the tool on your server |
| 00:56.48 | Gnarfoz | are you not beholden to the powers of irssiproxy?! :O |
| 00:56.56 | Thrae | ...I was referencing why I copy & pasted the info. |
| 00:57.52 | Gnarfoz | I guess it all makes sense about as much as those mIRC system info DLLs do. ;) |
| 00:58.14 | Thrae | Copy & pasting from Blizzard's tool? Probably |
| 00:58.30 | Thrae | SW:TOR still thinks I use a 8800 GS (that's my secondary card, not primary) |
| 00:59.42 | Thrae | Gnarfoz: Anyway, you're just jealous of my PC's prowress. Or you don't care and just like to argue. But I think it's jealousy. |
| 01:00.05 | Gnarfoz | it's the latter, there's probably enough regulars around to attest to that! :D |
| 01:00.19 | Gnarfoz | (this is IRC, after all) |
| 01:03.09 | Jamash | no it isn't! |
| 01:03.44 | olafski | I can type /mp3 to get the "now playing" of my desktop, even though this irc runs on a pc that isn't even in the same building as me ;) |
| 01:03.57 | Jamash | spooky |
| 01:07.23 | olafski | (also /traffic and /space get the traffic and free space of my server, which isn't the one running irssi either.. hax +)) |
| 01:07.52 | Cide | hmm |
| 01:08.11 | Cide | anyone know how the multiply layer mode works in photoshop? |
| 01:08.15 | Cide | mathematically, that is |
| 01:08.58 | Cide | nvm, got it |
| 01:08.58 | Shirik | has returned! |
| 01:09.06 | Shirik | and I think it multiplies |
| 01:09.51 | Cide | top color * bottom color / 255 |
| 01:09.55 | Cide | yep |
| 01:10.17 | nevcairiel | multiply layer multiplies, what magic is this |
| 01:10.25 | nevcairiel | vanishes, escaping the wrath of cide |
| 01:13.29 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@c-174-52-104-121.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:13.38 | *** join/#wowuidev daev` (~bleh@pool-72-86-116-158.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 01:18.03 | Cide | nevcairiel, die |
| 01:18.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (~Wobin@124-170-4-80.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:19.14 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@unaffiliated/a-ko) |
| 01:22.02 | Cide | welcome back Shirikitty |
| 01:22.08 | Cide | also |
| 01:22.10 | Cide | I am a genius |
| 01:26.31 | batrick | are not |
| 01:32.23 | Cide | am |
| 01:32.52 | A-KO | http://www.timesunion.com/multimedia/video/TUvideo.asp?title=Hear+the+audio&vidid=96943642001&bccapt=Listen+to+the+audio+of+Thomas+Edison+speaking |
| 01:34.41 | Adys | Cide |
| 01:34.52 | Cide | yes |
| 01:35.00 | Adys | whats the cleanest way to know whether a float isn't round? |
| 01:35.09 | Adys | s/know/find out/ |
| 01:35.21 | Jamash | round? |
| 01:35.30 | Cide | make a circle around it and check how far off it is |
| 01:35.31 | Adys | as in int(float) != float |
| 01:35.35 | Adys | ass |
| 01:35.35 | Adys | :( |
| 01:35.49 | Cide | why is that bad? |
| 01:35.56 | Adys | uh |
| 01:36.15 | Adys | i dunno, it's a type conversion and those arent good practice |
| 01:36.41 | Jamash | in lua? |
| 01:36.41 | Cide | math.floor(float) != float |
| 01:36.45 | Adys | python |
| 01:37.00 | Cide | but int may be faster |
| 01:37.17 | Adys | i was expecting you'd pull me an isround() method out of your ass or something |
| 01:37.22 | Adys | since your ass is very round! <3 |
| 01:37.40 | Amarande | Adys: we don't need to know about very round male asses |
| 01:37.43 | Amarande | that's only hot on women :) |
| 01:37.44 | Cide | def isround(f): import math.floor; return math.floor(f) == f |
| 01:37.48 | Cide | or |
| 01:37.58 | Cide | def isround(f): import math.trunc; return math.trunc(f) == f |
| 01:38.01 | Cide | or |
| 01:38.08 | Adys | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:38.08 | Adys | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:38.08 | Adys | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:38.08 | Adys | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:38.09 | Cide | def isround(f): import math.ceil; return math.ceil(f) == f |
| 01:38.11 | Adys | thank you. |
| 01:38.27 | Kalroth | thats not what you asked |
| 01:38.34 | Cide | yes it is |
| 01:38.37 | Adys | >>> (1.0).is_integer() |
| 01:38.37 | Adys | True |
| 01:38.37 | Adys | >>> (1.1).is_integer() |
| 01:38.37 | Adys | False |
| 01:38.41 | Cide | but where is that function? |
| 01:38.44 | Cide | oh, it's a method |
| 01:38.50 | Cide | I couldn't find the float method reference while looking |
| 01:38.58 | Adys | help(float) |
| 01:39.01 | Jamash | math.modf |
| 01:39.08 | Adys | l2tellmehowtojfgi better |
| 01:39.15 | Jamash | Return the fractional and integer parts of x. Both results carry the sign of x and are floats. |
| 01:39.36 | Jamash | so test whether the fractional part is equal to 0 |
| 01:39.37 | Cide | that's massive overhead I bet, Jamash |
| 01:39.48 | Jamash | overhead shmoverhead |
| 01:40.00 | Amarande | Jamash, I recommend listening to Cide |
| 01:40.07 | Amarande | Cide, it's about time someone spoke out against inefficient coding |
| 01:40.12 | Kalroth | uh, why is that massive overhead? |
| 01:40.15 | Amarande | there's all too much of it around :P |
| 01:40.18 | Jamash | I recommend stuffing it up Cide's ass |
| 01:40.18 | Cide | no way |
| 01:40.24 | Cide | I'm a proponent of not talking about efficiency |
| 01:40.38 | Cide | until it's been profiled and deemed necessary |
| 01:40.42 | Jamash | ^ |
| 01:40.52 | Amarande | because all too many devs figure "people can just use bigger iron, why should we have to make this more efficient? besides [especially if it's a game] we're getting sponsored by hardware devs, so we probably should throw them a bone" |
| 01:40.54 | Cide | but no need to use a strange way when there are more straightforward ways :P |
| 01:40.59 | Adys | I just profiled Cide and I think he's bloated |
| 01:41.13 | Cide | Amarande, do you use "local func;" for every global you use in your addons? |
| 01:41.14 | Amarande | but yeah, that's one reason why Commodore coding was such an elegant thing |
| 01:41.38 | Jamash | unless you're doing this roundness test upwards of a trillion times, it doesn't matter in the slightest how efficient it is |
| 01:41.49 | Adys | ... |
| 01:41.53 | Adys | it's not about efficiency |
| 01:41.56 | Amarande | Commodore and IBM PC era coding was actually fairly elegant because you KNEW the iron was limited and that upgrading it just wasn't an option for your userbase |
| 01:41.56 | Adys | it's about clean code |
| 01:42.06 | Adys | and yes, a float.is_integer() method is a lot cleaner than int(float) |
| 01:42.07 | Amarande | now oftentimes clean code and efficiency suffer |
| 01:42.08 | Jamash | programmer efficiency > code efficiency |
| 01:42.20 | Adys | wtf |
| 01:42.24 | Amarande | because 1) programmers are encouraged not to waste time, because as our buddies from Gadgetzan remind us, Time is money friend! |
| 01:42.35 | Cide | readable code > efficiency when it comes to projects that aren't 1-manned |
| 01:42.40 | Adys | exactly cide |
| 01:42.52 | Amarande | 2) there's a hell of a lot less incentive to code cleanly and efficiently when people can just make up for shortcomings with bigger iron :| |
| 01:43.07 | Adys | if value != int(value): # what? |
| 01:43.07 | Adys | return "%.2f" % (value) |
| 01:43.12 | Adys | that was my code a second ago |
| 01:43.12 | Cide | well let's stop this discussion and conclude that I'm right |
| 01:43.17 | Adys | shut up go die |
| 01:43.26 | Cide | I'm agreeing with you numbnuts |
| 01:43.27 | Jamash | if you're interested in efficiency *why are you coding in an interpreted language in the first place* |
| 01:43.30 | Adys | ah k |
| 01:43.41 | Adys | IM NOT INTERESTED IN EFFICIENCY omg |
| 01:43.41 | Amarande | 3) corollary to 2, in gaming there's probably actually pressure ON the devs to make stuff require bigger iron, because corporate game studios lately are almost always sponsored by hardware devs |
| 01:43.43 | Kalroth | no you're not adys is working on a 1-man project, Cide! |
| 01:43.46 | Adys | I wanted to clean up this shit |
| 01:43.47 | Cide | Chapter 6: "Premature optimization is the root of all evil" -- D. Knuth. "On the other hand, we cannot ignore efficiency" -- Jon Bentley |
| 01:44.03 | Adys | i have no idea whether is_integer or int() is faster |
| 01:44.08 | Amarande | Cide: well, Knuth is/was insane |
| 01:44.09 | Adys | and i dont give a shit |
| 01:44.13 | Cide | Amarande, rofl |
| 01:44.14 | Amarande | remember what Knuth's baby was :) |
| 01:44.33 | Amarande | TeX. Back in the days before there was even LaTeX to at least make it bearable. :P |
| 01:44.37 | Kalroth | is_integer() is most likely just a wrapper for int() |
| 01:44.45 | Adys | yes Kalroth |
| 01:44.48 | Adys | but its more readable |
| 01:44.49 | Adys | :P |
| 01:44.50 | Amarande | simply USING TeX is sanity-threatening as it is |
| 01:45.04 | Amarande | coding it must be about as mentally dangerous as communing with a Great Old One |
| 01:45.12 | Amarande | this assuming Knuth didn't do exactly that to receive the design of TeX :) |
| 01:47.16 | Thrae | Here's the email I just sent out about OnLive -- http://pastey.net/137864. If you're not a computer builder/collector, you may consider watching OnLive and see how they do. |
| 01:48.34 | Shirik | why am I shirikitty, Cide? |
| 01:48.47 | Jamash | OnLoL |
| 01:48.49 | Cide | ask your fellow wikipedian who coined it |
| 01:49.01 | Kalroth | purr |
| 01:49.12 | Amarande | Cide, do you think devs will ever pay much attention to performance and storage usage again, or will they just keep assuming people can always upgrade? |
| 01:49.28 | Cide | your thought is moot |
| 01:49.40 | NightHawkTheSane | Cide: you kind of summed up everything he's ever said |
| 01:49.46 | Cide | by your standards everyone should use assembly language |
| 01:49.47 | Amarande | :| |
| 01:50.02 | Cide | or c/c++ I guess |
| 01:50.08 | NightHawkTheSane | do I want to watch Contact, or play secret of mana? |
| 01:50.09 | Amarande | what's wrong with C? :) |
| 01:50.12 | Gnarfoz | he's talking nonsense again anyway |
| 01:50.14 | Cide | nothing |
| 01:50.20 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: "again"? ;) |
| 01:50.26 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: "still" |
| 01:50.28 | Cide | but you're clearly wasting hardware if you use higher level languages! |
| 01:50.29 | Jamash | wait, wait, you have to pay for OnLive and then pay again to play the games? |
| 01:50.50 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: or simply: he's talking! |
| 01:51.02 | NightHawkTheSane | Cide: thats why I use high level languages, actually, to punish my users by making their programs GROSSELY INEFFCIANT! |
| 01:51.05 | Kalroth | Amarande: do you think users will using windows 3.11, or will they keep expecting new interfaces for operating systems? |
| 01:51.19 | Kalroth | keep using* |
| 01:51.21 | Thrae | Jamash: It's like the olden days when you rented games, except there will be "unlimited passes" for games. The payment for the OnLive service itself is $5/month, and the first year is free right now. |
| 01:51.41 | Jamash | I figured it was going to be like gametap |
| 01:52.09 | Amarande | Cide: the thing is it seems like nobody ever takes time to tighten up code much at all now |
| 01:52.15 | Jamash | if it costs more to play via OnLive than it does to rent/buy the games...? |
| 01:52.24 | NightHawkTheSane | ooh, gross over generalizatio, woo!!! |
| 01:52.30 | Jamash | Amarande: Crack, you are smoking it. |
| 01:52.46 | Thrae | Jamash: No, since with Gametap you actually play the games on your local computer somehow; usually through an emulator. With OnLive, you're playing it on their servers and the video, audio, and input is getting forward to you over the Internets. |
| 01:53.00 | Amarande | Thrae: that must make ISPs really happy heh |
| 01:53.05 | Jamash | Thrae: I understand how the system works, yeah |
| 01:53.13 | Amarande | Thrae: ISPs are already pissed off enough at Netflix, apparently |
| 01:53.22 | Kalroth | "To be eligible for this offer, you must be 18 years of age or older and located within the contiguous United States" |
| 01:53.24 | Kalroth | boo |
| 01:53.34 | Thrae | Amarande: Really? Odd, since usually ISPs are mad about upload, not download |
| 01:53.42 | Jamash | OnLive is going to crash and burnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn |
| 01:53.55 | NightHawkTheSane | Kalroth: contiguous, eh? thats even lamer than normal |
| 01:53.58 | Amarande | Thrae: apparently ISPs wanted caps to be a viable plan that wouldn't bring the customer base crashing down |
| 01:54.13 | Gnarfoz | "ISPs are" - I doubt any ISP here even heard of Netflix |
| 01:54.16 | Amarande | but with HD Netflix streaming using as much bandwidth per movie as it does, that would just make people switch to DSL if they could |
| 01:54.27 | Thrae | Amarande: Too bad Net Neutrality isn't going their way (and we're talking US ISPs here, since OnLive is a US-only service) |
| 01:54.29 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: the big US cable companies are pissed to a storm about Netflix apparently. |
| 01:54.45 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: makes no sense, but who cares |
| 01:54.48 | Amarande | not only does it compete with their PPV, but it also forces them to provide a lot more bandwidth to keep customers than they really want to spend the money for |
| 01:55.05 | Gnarfoz | "forces them to provide bandwidth" - that's their fucking job |
| 01:55.15 | NightHawkTheSane | no, it means they they have to provide the bandwidth that they SHOULD be providing |
| 01:55.19 | Jamash | cable companies are assholes, film at 11 |
| 01:55.21 | Amarande | remember, before things like netflix streaming, you could get away better with caps, because you could presume anyone using more than a certain number of GB a month was probably a pirate and deserved to be throttled |
| 01:55.27 | Gnarfoz | caps? |
| 01:55.29 | Gnarfoz | what caps |
| 01:55.35 | Jamash | bandwidth caps |
| 01:55.39 | Jamash | throttling |
| 01:55.42 | cbreak | BANDWIDTH |
| 01:55.48 | Kalroth | (it's an American thing, Gnarfoz :) |
| 01:55.50 | Gnarfoz | your internet must really suck |
| 01:55.51 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 01:55.51 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: limiting you to X amount of GB a month, and if you use more your speed is throttled and/or you get charged fees |
| 01:55.52 | NightHawkTheSane | frankly, it's practically a crime that there's anywhere remotely near a city that doesn't have nearly unlmited bandwidth |
| 01:55.53 | cbreak | VOLUME |
| 01:55.54 | Thrae | Amarande: Yeah, the problem with Cable vs DSL vs Fiber-Optics is that Cable is very, VERY shared while DSL and FiOS are usually kept separate at least until the central hub |
| 01:56.19 | Amarande | Thrae: which basically forces cable companies to put a lot more hardware in a lot more places than they otherwise needed to |
| 01:56.21 | Gnarfoz | yeah yeah I get it you poor USians, I was making fun of your (apparently) sad ISP situation |
| 01:56.25 | Gnarfoz | ;p |
| 01:56.26 | Kalroth | http://www.techlore.com/blog/entry/24735/Sorry-Netflix-Hulu-Vudu-Blockbuster-and-iTunes...-We-re-Out-of-Internet/ |
| 01:56.30 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: and yes, american companies are terribad. |
| 01:56.35 | Amarande | in ADDITION to the fact that it lowers their company income, too, because people are not buying PPV when they have netflix |
| 01:56.41 | cbreak | free market ftw |
| 01:56.53 | NightHawkTheSane | cbreak: yeah, it's sure working out well for us. >< |
| 01:56.54 | Thrae | Amarande: Really it's the Cable companies own fault as they are NOT giving you dedicated bandwidth like the other two, yet keep upping it to seem "superior." I don't think they have a moral/ethical leg to stand on. |
| 01:57.23 | Amarande | Thrae: there's probably also the anvil they have between customers and Hollywood |
| 01:57.29 | Thrae | Amarande: "If you don't want your customers to use 50mbit/s for 5 hours than DON'T GIVE IT TO THEM" |
| 01:57.41 | Amarande | Hollywood, doubtless, is pressuring ISPs to put more limits on bandwidth because of the piracy angle |
| 01:57.55 | Kalroth | haha |
| 01:57.57 | Gnarfoz | you see connections where there are none, is my take on that |
| 01:58.12 | Kalroth | Yeah, that is a bit :tinfoil: for me |
| 01:58.17 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: okay, before streaming movies from legal sites like netflix, what *could* someone be using that much bandwidth for? |
| 01:58.24 | Gnarfoz | that's not their business |
| 01:58.26 | Amarande | if not downloading ISOs or DVD images |
| 01:58.27 | Jamash | downloading linux isos |
| 01:58.30 | NightHawkTheSane | hollywood doesn't care. it's the copyrght holder businesses aligned with the mpaa/riaa. |
| 01:58.42 | Amarande | in other words, 99% of people using more than X amount of bandwidth probably were using it to steal media |
| 01:58.44 | Gnarfoz | uploading self-filmed video material |
| 01:58.51 | Kalroth | .. |
| 01:59.00 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: so what? what hold do movie studios have over ISPs? |
| 01:59.02 | Jamash | watching senseless amounts of youtube |
| 01:59.04 | Thrae | Amarande: That's not Hollywood, that's more the RIAA and they want caps, not max bandwidth reductions. Unless you're some type of pirate central hub it's hard to use even 3mbit/s download due to crappy routers, crappy modems, crappy ISPs, etc. |
| 01:59.17 | Gnarfoz | Thrae: whaaat. |
| 01:59.35 | Thrae | Gnarfoz: Aren't you located somewhere in Europe? |
| 01:59.36 | Jamash | Gnarfoz: We have senators that are bought and paid for by the MPAA/RIAA |
| 01:59.39 | Amarande | and the MPAA and RIAA were doubtless pissed, because ISPs were getting so drunk on selling more and more bandwidth and completely disregarding that it was mostly being used to steal their property |
| 01:59.40 | Gnarfoz | Thrae: I am |
| 01:59.48 | Kalroth | Yo, buying one game on Steam gives you a 7-9GB download. Watching Youtube is 150MB per 10 minutes. |
| 02:00.01 | Thrae | Gnarfoz: The US infrastructure is different than Europe's. Ours is older and more prone to problems like what I was talking about. |
| 02:00.26 | Kalroth | Don't assume that you're using the internet in the only way it can be used |
| 02:00.34 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: thats a pleasant way of saying "shitty and breaking" |
| 02:00.49 | Gnarfoz | it also sounds a bit hard to believe |
| 02:00.58 | Gnarfoz | and it reminds me of the US power grid |
| 02:00.58 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 02:01.06 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: which is also shitty ;) |
| 02:01.19 | Kalroth | Program updates (Windows, Antivirus, Adobe, etc. etc.) |
| 02:01.21 | Thrae | Yeah, the problem with the USA vs Europe Internet is that Europe is a collection of multiple countries each with their own fiscal responsibility to their infrastructures, while the USA is a huge-ass country with one government. |
| 02:01.57 | Gnarfoz | but I guess I shouldn't be talking it big right now, estimations for the collapse of the EU/the Euro/at least Greece aren't looking good right now ;p |
| 02:02.00 | Amarande | Thrae: there's also the private vs. public aspect |
| 02:02.18 | Amarande | in most countries outside the US, as I understand it, the internets are either owned by the government or by a government-monitored monopoly |
| 02:02.25 | Thrae | Amarande: That too, but that permeates a lot more than Internet for USA vs Europe debates. |
| 02:02.26 | Kalroth | ........... |
| 02:02.26 | Gnarfoz | (not that anyone cares about Greece. sorry Adys ;p) |
| 02:02.26 | Amarande | or were, during the critical stages during which the groundwork was being laid |
| 02:02.28 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: I think that metaphore actually extends into the private sector as well |
| 02:02.38 | Kalroth | Amarande: You live in the states, yes? |
| 02:02.39 | Adys | dont worry |
| 02:02.44 | Amarande | Kalroth: Yeah. |
| 02:02.45 | Adys | in 10 days i wont care about greece either |
| 02:02.48 | Kalroth | Amarande: It shows. |
| 02:03.05 | Amarande | in the US, the internets are mostly owned by the private sector, and the US private sector is notorious for a) dragging their feet on anything that costs money, and b) ESPECIALLY dragging their feet on anything that not only costs money but also by nature helps out competition |
| 02:03.21 | Gnarfoz | the internet, as "invented in the USA" - was government owned in the first place. what are you talking about oO |
| 02:03.31 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: back in the day |
| 02:03.32 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: it may have been at one point, but it's not anymore. |
| 02:03.38 | Amarande | and now the government owned parts are actually probably part of the problem, too |
| 02:03.39 | Gnarfoz | it's not anymore anywhere |
| 02:03.49 | Gnarfoz | at least... relevant to this discussion, I'd venture |
| 02:03.53 | Thrae | Amarande: Yeah. If the inventors of the Internet didn't make it public domain there'd be hell to pay. Actually, more than the cost of hell. |
| 02:03.55 | Amarande | I presume any new backbones are basically required to go through certain nerve centers to get government approval |
| 02:03.58 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: *shrug* i can't speak to europe, so i dont know |
| 02:04.08 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: no long distance plan? ;< |
| 02:04.18 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: :P |
| 02:04.30 | Gnarfoz | Adys: you moving? :) |
| 02:04.36 | Thrae | Amarande: Right now the people making off like rich rabbits are groups like Level3, the owners of the backbones, which charge ridiculous rates to everyone for their services while not putting nearly enough effort into upgrading. |
| 02:04.41 | Amarande | so that national security monitoring that's based in said nerve centers (and that they never confirm the existence of, but everyone knows it exists anyway :P) isn't compromised by major links that *don't* go through them |
| 02:05.10 | Amarande | DHS would probably go apeshit if backbones came up that didn't connect through the ECHELON monitored ports |
| 02:05.17 | Gnarfoz | uhm |
| 02:05.36 | Amarande | (plus it's probably illegal anyway with CALEA and the like) |
| 02:05.39 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: again, that's ultimately the root of a LOT of problems in the private sector |
| 02:05.41 | Gnarfoz | hands Amarande a shiny new e-mail address hosted at crazytinfoils.com |
| 02:06.05 | Amarande | actually, that's yet another burden on the ISP industry here in the states (though it probably has its EU counterparts) |
| 02:06.21 | NightHawkTheSane | large companies positioned as one of teh only/few groups that can provide specific services, charge through the nose for them, and then don't keep the service upgraded. |
| 02:06.30 | Amarande | we have a law called CALEA, which as I understand it requires telecom providers to install (at their expense) systems to allow for law enforcement monitoring as necessary |
| 02:06.42 | Kalroth | Yeah, most EU countries got that too |
| 02:06.45 | Gnarfoz | thanks to KPNQWest there's probably still fibre in the ground for some years to come here, xD |
| 02:07.21 | Gnarfoz | (hmmm at one point I knew whose hands those ended up in, *googles eurorings*) |
| 02:07.53 | Gnarfoz | Kalroth: apparently there's diverging definitions of telecommunications providers here |
| 02:08.06 | Kalroth | what do you mean? |
| 02:08.12 | Gnarfoz | ISPs are expressly exempt from such regulations in Germany, so far |
| 02:08.49 | Adys | Gnarfoz: |
| 02:08.50 | Adys | yes |
| 02:08.55 | Adys | to bristol |
| 02:09.05 | Gnarfoz | those obligations are for services provided closer to the customer, you could say... closer to Layer 8. ;P |
| 02:09.08 | Kalroth | Gnarfoz: No they're not, not even in Germany |
| 02:09.16 | Gnarfoz | Adys: good for you |
| 02:09.29 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: you must have more uniform distancing of layers between backbone and customer, I suppose |
| 02:09.33 | Amarande | here in the States, it's kind of a mishmosh |
| 02:09.43 | Kalroth | https://secure.cryptohippie.com/pubs/EPS-2008.pdf |
| 02:09.51 | Gnarfoz | pdf :F |
| 02:10.01 | Kalroth | Germany was in top 10 of worst countries 2 years ago :) |
| 02:10.05 | Amarande | because depending on the size of a customer (particularly corporate customers), customers can be connected anywhere from little podunk ISP to directly to the backbone provider |
| 02:10.35 | Gnarfoz | Kalroth: that does really not say anything specific *shrug* |
| 02:10.44 | Amarande | some companies even use consumer-type connections (which means their customers are yet another layer distanced) ... otoh I imagine the likes of Google and Blizzard probably have contracts directly with the backbone companies |
| 02:10.55 | Kalroth | Gnarfoz: Yes it does, read the title |
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| 02:11.08 | Kalroth | It's actually being very specific |
| 02:11.09 | Gnarfoz | you're making a bigger deal out of "backbone providers" than anyone here probably would |
| 02:11.35 | Kalroth | T1 ISPs are assholes, they have always been |
| 02:11.42 | Kalroth | But they sort their shit with T2 ISPs |
| 02:11.47 | Kalroth | Like they always have done :) |
| 02:12.49 | Gnarfoz | emanates another wave of shrugs |
| 02:12.50 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 02:13.10 | Gnarfoz | well, it's all very hostile over there, is what I gather =] |
| 02:14.07 | Kalroth | It's hostile here too, our T1s just dont point fingers in public |
| 02:14.15 | Kalroth | Where the US T1s cry all the time |
| 02:14.26 | Gnarfoz | Kalroth: I was trying to say: "it doesn't say in detail how Germany got that ranking" (about the PDF) |
| 02:14.50 | Kalroth | Gnarfoz: It explains the 17 criterias AND links to the raw data |
| 02:14.54 | Gnarfoz | Kalroth: "T1"s just don't play as much of a role here, since distances are shorter |
| 02:15.02 | Kalroth | what more do you want? |
| 02:15.04 | Gnarfoz | links? |
| 02:15.15 | Gnarfoz | *enables links* |
| 02:15.27 | Gnarfoz | oh great. excel. |
| 02:15.28 | Gnarfoz | :F |
| 02:16.43 | Gnarfoz | great, one number for each of their categories. "detail" would have included at least the NAME of the law in question. heh |
| 02:16.58 | Kalroth | and with T1s I mean Tier 1 ISPs |
| 02:17.00 | Gnarfoz | I guess I could try piecing that together myself |
| 02:17.03 | Jerub | upgrading my phone, first step: remove authenticator from bnet account |
| 02:17.06 | Gnarfoz | Kalroth: I got that |
| 02:17.07 | Kalroth | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_network |
| 02:17.20 | Kalroth | well since you wrote "T1"s I assumed you didn't :) |
| 02:17.45 | Gnarfoz | plural-s after the abbrevation :~ |
| 02:18.38 | Kalroth | why not? |
| 02:19.13 | Gnarfoz | that what I did |
| 02:19.24 | Gnarfoz | I was putting Tier 1 in mock-quotations |
| 02:19.29 | Gnarfoz | and plurarlised afterwards |
| 02:19.44 | Gnarfoz | (looks kind of awkward, in retrospect, but it's oh-dark-hundred by now~) |
| 02:20.30 | Kalroth | well T1 is (in this context) short for Tier 1 Network and not just an abbreviation :) |
| 02:20.51 | Kalroth | T1N looks kinda funky! |
| 02:21.29 | Gnarfoz | (durrr "short for" is the exact meaning of "abbreviation") |
| 02:21.44 | Gnarfoz | anyway, the whole wikipedia article is basically hearsay and it even says so in the article! :D |
| 02:21.50 | Kalroth | so short people are abbreciated people?! |
| 02:21.57 | Kalroth | abbreviated* |
| 02:22.17 | Gnarfoz | "short for" people might be, if that makes any sense |
| 02:22.34 | Gnarfoz | haha, I wonder if de.wikipedia has an article about Tier 1 networks |
| 02:22.46 | Gnarfoz | has probably been deleted |
| 02:23.01 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: ^ ;D |
| 02:23.10 | Kalroth | the concept of tiered ISPs is hardly new |
| 02:23.14 | Kalroth | or made up |
| 02:23.15 | Gnarfoz | that's not the point |
| 02:23.21 | Gnarfoz | and it IS made up |
| 02:23.25 | Kalroth | .. |
| 02:23.29 | Gnarfoz | it's entirely "who's bigger" |
| 02:23.37 | Kalroth | searches for the tinfoil hat |
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| 02:23.42 | Kalroth | hands it to Gnarfoz |
| 02:23.45 | Kalroth | Grats, you earned it |
| 02:23.48 | Gnarfoz | but now Amarande has only 5 left |
| 02:25.08 | Gnarfoz | and I don't see how pointing that out is in any kind conspiracy-related - I just don't see the point to in putting those few up on such a high pedestal |
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| 02:25.44 | Kalroth | wut? |
| 02:26.03 | Gnarfoz | probably because the internet (or what's left of it) would probably be usable without them (in europe) |
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| 02:26.23 | Gnarfoz | man, I'm repeating words a lot, clear sign of tiredness^^ |
| 02:26.33 | Kalroth | Europe would be in a pretty bad state if Telia alone closed their network |
| 02:26.44 | Gnarfoz | I doubt it'd be that bad |
| 02:27.10 | Kalroth | I doubt you know how much traffic they carry :) |
| 02:27.20 | Gnarfoz | I doubt you do, unless you work there |
| 02:27.25 | Kalroth | :) |
| 02:28.18 | Amarande | Kalroth: I was just mostly noting that ISP tiering is less clear-cut in the USA |
| 02:28.36 | Amarande | because larger companies generally get to jump tiers, even if they're not appropriate tiered ISPs themselves |
| 02:28.39 | Gnarfoz | that article makes it sound pretty clear-cut |
| 02:28.54 | Kalroth | It's harder to recognize a "pure" T1 today, because of shady deals and fixed contracts |
| 02:29.05 | Kalroth | But the definition still stands |
| 02:29.14 | Amarande | Kalroth: also, don't T1's still have end company customers, like Blizzard, Google, MS etc.? |
| 02:29.17 | Gnarfoz | and what exactly prevents you from peering at DE-CIX with whomever you like? |
| 02:29.27 | Amarande | Gnarfoz: money, I suppose :) |
| 02:29.44 | Amarande | but I always got the impression it was stricter outside the US |
| 02:29.46 | Gnarfoz | Amarande: yeah, I didn't say anything about it being free in any direction |
| 02:29.53 | Amarande | in the US, it's *entirely* about how much money you're willing to spend |
| 02:30.06 | Kalroth | Gnarfoz: But that is the exact definition of T1 - free traffic |
| 02:30.32 | Kalroth | Amarande: Well Google is pretty huge, probably big enough to be an ISP if they wanted to :) |
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| 02:30.56 | Gnarfoz | Kalroth: what are we even talking about at this point, I kind of lost track |
| 02:31.08 | Kalroth | As for Blizzard, well they probably deal with a sub-company inside Telia, rather than those controlling the network |
| 02:31.25 | MentalPower | not really, since part of being T1 is having a more or less equal mix of inbound to outbound traffic. Google is huge, but most of it is outbound traffic |
| 02:31.53 | Kalroth | Gnarfoz: You're saying that T1 ISPs doesn't matter (as much as USA) in Europe |
| 02:32.19 | Kalroth | MentalPower: Its not just that, its also the infrastructure |
| 02:32.29 | Kalroth | And Google definitely got infrastructure |
| 02:32.30 | Gnarfoz | Kalroth: in terms of influencing private customer internet connectivity (and being influenced by hollywood oO) |
| 02:33.20 | Kalroth | Gnarfoz: uhh, T1 ISPs aren't selling to private customers, so obviously no |
| 02:33.31 | Gnarfoz | but that's when this came up |
| 02:33.54 | Gnarfoz | (initially, that is) |
| 02:34.08 | Kalroth | [04:11] <Gnarfoz> you're making a bigger deal out of "backbone providers" than anyone here probably would |
| 02:34.14 | Amarande | wellll |
| 02:34.14 | Kalroth | is when this came up :) |
| 02:34.21 | Amarande | you could probably get yourself a connection to Level3 |
| 02:34.31 | Kalroth | Amarande: For money, sure |
| 02:34.32 | Gnarfoz | Kalroth: as you can clearly see I'm already referring to something going on at that point |
| 02:34.34 | Kalroth | But not for free |
| 02:34.40 | Amarande | but I'd imagine you'd have to win the Powerball *and* the Mega Millions both when they're maxed out and be willing to buy a 1.5Gbps or better I'm sure :) |
| 02:35.04 | MentalPower | Kalroth: some of them are, AT&T is a T1, and it sells to customers |
| 02:35.17 | Kalroth | The entire idea of T1 is that you trade stuff, you give them bandwidth and they give you |
| 02:35.27 | Kalroth | Neither party pays anything |
| 02:35.34 | Amarande | (and if you win the Powerball and Mega Millions together, you'll probably wait the rest of your life for the money while the FBI checks to figure out how the hell you managed to win them both, at max jackpot, without committing fraud. LOL) |
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| 02:35.47 | Kalroth | You use their equipment and infrastructure for free and reverse |
| 02:36.24 | Kalroth | take a small company like Telia - http://www.teliasoneraic.com/GLOBAL/NetworkFlash/index.htm - wouldn't you like to ride their network for free? |
| 02:36.28 | Amarande | That and the military will probably want to see your time machine. :) |
| 02:37.18 | Gnarfoz | I'll win something in my non-batshit-insane country and leave your military to do whatever they're up to |
| 02:37.30 | Gnarfoz | :P |
| 02:37.39 | Amarande | heh |
| 02:37.52 | Amarande | somehow I think if anyone invented a time machine anywhere in the civilized world, the military would want a look |
| 02:38.03 | Gnarfoz | *your military |
| 02:38.12 | Kalroth | Odds are that they are already looking, Amarande :) |
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| 02:38.36 | Amarande | Kalroth: probably, given that the US government/military seems to be where all the neat tech like that comes *from* :) |
| 02:38.50 | Kalroth | But time machines cannot exist, its proven by the simple fact that we are still here |
| 02:39.04 | Thunder_Child | http://gizmodo.com/5566271/inflatable-pillow-tie-it-had-to-happen |
| 02:39.05 | NightHawkTheSane | pfft. everyone knows that if time travel is invented, it's invented at all points in history simultaneously |
| 02:39.11 | NightHawkTheSane | so we'd already have it by now |
| 02:39.21 | Gnarfoz | Kalroth: I admit, I kind of failed at carrying on the thread of the conversation I was actually interested in and had my arguments mistaken for being meant for the direction the discussion was taking - and didn't even notice it until now. :D |
| 02:39.29 | Amarande | Night: actually I believe they pretty much have figured out that you can go forward, but they're not sure if it's at all possible to go back |
| 02:39.49 | Amarande | you can take advantage of time dilation with a sufficiently fast vehicle to have less time pass for you and your starship than outside |
| 02:39.49 | NightHawkTheSane | ... yeah, i can go forward in time. it's actually quite simple. |
| 02:39.54 | Gnarfoz | Kalroth: (re hollywood -> netflix -> ISPs -> hollywood -> ECHELON -> cost of internet infrastructure -> WHAT) |
| 02:39.56 | Amarande | but that only lets you move *forward* vs. the normal flow of time |
| 02:40.17 | Kalroth | Gnarfoz: Oh, you lost me at echelon |
| 02:40.23 | Amarande | they're not sure if there's a way to move backwards in time |
| 02:40.44 | Amarande | it seems to involve negative numbers in places in physical formulae where negative numbers just *don't* go |
| 02:40.53 | Gnarfoz | Kalroth: I'm not even drunk! :F I wish I was, maybe it all would make sense then |
| 02:41.16 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: thats my solution to everything, really |
| 02:41.26 | Kalroth | Amarande: It's very simple - if it was possible to travel back in time, then we wouldn't be here today |
| 02:41.26 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: obviously |
| 02:41.41 | Amarande | Kalroth: how does that follow? |
| 02:41.46 | Amarande | Show your work. :) |
| 02:41.47 | smcn | it's obviously impossible to go back in time in the same dimension |
| 02:41.58 | smcn | who wouldn't go back in time and give the technology to ourselves? |
| 02:42.00 | Kalroth | Amarande: Because somewhere, sometime in the future, some asshole would go back and pour gasoline on the first sign of life |
| 02:42.04 | NightHawkTheSane | Kalroth: like i said, time travel is invented at all point in history simultaneously :) |
| 02:42.08 | Amarande | ahh, the grandfather paradox |
| 02:42.16 | smcn | or that |
| 02:42.18 | Amarande | Kalroth: that would basically unravel everything |
| 02:42.23 | NightHawkTheSane | Kalroth: also, it would be me. |
| 02:42.25 | Amarande | if you go back 3 billion years to pour gas on the first sign of life |
| 02:42.32 | Kalroth | Yes |
| 02:42.40 | Kalroth | So since we're here, that doesn't happen |
| 02:42.41 | Amarande | then there was no life 280 million years ago when the Carboniferous period happened when the plants that turned into oil lived |
| 02:42.44 | Amarande | then there wouldn't be any gas |
| 02:42.56 | Amarande | which means where did the gas that was taken back 3 billion years come from? :| |
| 02:43.23 | Kalroth | it was physically moved from the future |
| 02:43.25 | Kalroth | duh! |
| 02:43.55 | smcn | you can also look at it this way, time travel was already invented in this dimension and they realized it caused whatever sort of problems so they went back and did something to start over |
| 02:43.58 | NightHawkTheSane | its from a future that never happened, simply put. (alternately: another quantum universe, if you like that theory) |
| 02:44.04 | smcn | maybe the big bang was created by time travelers |
| 02:44.12 | Gnarfoz | or maybe, you're all insane |
| 02:44.21 | DWSR | Anyone have a suggestion for a software that I can use to rip DVDs to x264? |
| 02:44.26 | smcn | and if you think of it that way, the way the universe is right now is perfect |
| 02:44.29 | Kalroth | smcn: They will just invent it again and again and again, until someone gets lucky enough to end all life on Earth |
| 02:44.44 | NightHawkTheSane | DWSR: handbrake? |
| 02:44.52 | DWSR | NHTS: That works on Windows? |
| 02:44.56 | Kalroth | DWSR: yes |
| 02:45.00 | smcn | Kalroth: imagine this, the universe has reset N times due to time travel until the current point where time travel is impossible |
| 02:45.02 | DWSR | Oh, swish. |
| 02:45.08 | NightHawkTheSane | DWSR: there's ports for all os's i believe? |
| 02:45.24 | Kalroth | smcn: That is plausible |
| 02:45.33 | Kalroth | smcn: But unlikely |
| 02:45.54 | Kalroth | http://handbrake.fr/rotation.php?file=HandBrake-0.9.4-Win_GUI.exe |
| 02:47.02 | smcn | i think it's just as likely as was the initial creation of life on earth |
| 02:47.19 | smcn | but i'm a layman |
| 02:47.46 | DWSR | Kalroth: yeah, found it, tahnks. |
| 02:48.37 | Kalroth | oh man almost 5am |
| 02:48.40 | Kalroth | curse you, IRC |
| 02:51.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Gintaro (~Gintaro@cc1040670-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 02:53.15 | DWSR | hey NHTS, can Handbrake do encrypted DVDs? |
| 02:53.28 | DWSR | Don't want a pesky thing like copy protection to interrupt my pirating. |
| 02:53.35 | Kraps | hai gusy |
| 02:53.36 | NightHawkTheSane | i dont know off the top of my head, but i think? |
| 02:55.08 | NightHawkTheSane | DWSR: googling around, looks like not by default, but it can utilize libraries you might already have installed to do so. (IE: on os x it'll check if you have VLC and use that's libdvdcss) |
| 02:55.18 | DWSR | Yeah. |
| 02:55.24 | DWSR | I have VLC and it seems to have picked it up on Windows as well. |
| 02:55.31 | DWSR | If that fails, I'll just use AnyDVD. |
| 02:56.34 | DWSR | this shit better support Matroska as a container. |
| 02:56.36 | DWSR | Or I'm going to killabitch |
| 02:57.30 | NightHawkTheSane | you can probably find out with google. |
| 02:57.39 | NightHawkTheSane | or just poking around. |
| 02:57.51 | DWSR | Meh. |
| 02:57.57 | DWSR | Going from container to container isn't a big deal. |
| 02:58.10 | DWSR | As long as I get my x264 goodness, I'm (mostly) happy. |
| 02:58.13 | Shirik | ok so I'm seeing what is quite possibly the most epic gold farmer ad ever |
| 02:58.19 | kd3 | hm? |
| 02:59.07 | Shirik | they made like a billboard of people. Every 15 seconds it changes. One second they're lying on the ground spelling out the name. Then they all move and now they're sitting in the air spelling the name in a three-dimensional manner |
| 02:59.11 | Shirik | then they make a thumbs up sign |
| 02:59.17 | MentalPower | Handbrake dropped matroska on their last relase to focus on really good and simple MPEG4 containers |
| 02:59.26 | DWSR | ugh |
| 02:59.28 | DWSR | Gay. |
| 02:59.32 | DWSR | Matroska > * |
| 02:59.50 | Shirik | and it just keeps rotating |
| 03:00.15 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ || 3.3.x ToC: 30300 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || Blizzcon 2010 Oct 22 & 23! || 3.3.5 PTR Patch Notes are up: http://cot.ag/bY6mEm || AVR broken in 3.3.5 http://cot.ag/aYo2YE || Are you going to BlizzCon? http://tinyurl.com/22kjfxu || "There is no language wherein a double positive can form a negative." "Yeah..... right...." |
| 03:00.19 | DWSR | HandBrake's OGM muxer was just as out of date as its AVI muxer. It hasn't been actively maintained in years either, and it too lacks support for HandBrake's best features. It requires conditionals to work around missing functionality too...only this muxer got tested so infrequently the conditionals were never even put in the code, so it just fails when you try to do anything advanced. This one is |
| 03:00.33 | Shirik | pokes Cairenn |
| 03:00.45 | Kraps | nice Cairenn |
| 03:00.52 | Cairenn | DWSR: you cut off "try to do anything advanced. This one is" |
| 03:01.03 | DWSR | yeah. |
| 03:01.15 | Cairenn | Kraps: that's courtesy bash, via MoonWitch |
| 03:01.36 | Cairenn | http://bash.org/?734797 |
| 03:01.44 | DWSR | is not coming back either. And yes, we're aware of HTML 5. For patent-free muxing, HandBrake still has Matroska, which is a much better container anyway |
| 03:02.08 | DWSR | NHTS ^^ |
| 03:02.16 | Amarande | Cairenn! :) |
| 03:02.23 | Amarande | How's things? |
| 03:02.28 | Cairenn | they are |
| 03:02.29 | Cairenn | you? |
| 03:02.34 | Amarande | going pretty good :) |
| 03:02.39 | Cairenn | good |
| 03:02.41 | NightHawkTheSane | DWSR: got a link for that? |
| 03:02.42 | Amarande | felfire hill is a little irritating but that's about it |
| 03:02.46 | DWSR | In their FAQ. |
| 03:02.48 | DWSR | http://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/SupportFAQ |
| 03:02.53 | NightHawkTheSane | thanks |
| 03:02.56 | Amarande | I can't find more than one succubus :S |
| 03:03.07 | Thrae | Cairenn: I think that joke would be better if you changed "Yeah... right..." to *sarcastically* "Yeah, right!" |
| 03:03.09 | Amarande | it's all the infernals and felguards, both of which piss me off royally as fire mage heh |
| 03:03.16 | Amarande | in addition to being the wrong mobs :) |
| 03:03.49 | Thrae | I.E., I don't think the ellipses denote the sarcasm that makes that joke work. |
| 03:03.55 | Amarande | well actually the infernals aren't *that* bad, but the felguards are annoying as all hell |
| 03:03.56 | MentalPower | DWSR: ah, so they killed OGM not Matroska, sorry |
| 03:04.34 | DWSR | Thrae: If you can't tell that it's sarcasm, you wouldn't understand the joke anyway. |
| 03:05.18 | DWSR | Anyway, brb. |
| 03:05.20 | Thrae | DWSR: Well the full joke, e.g. http://www.thatwasfunny.com/double-positive/136, uses terms like "piped up" to denote the sarcasm. |
| 03:06.08 | Jerub | omg rooting my android phone is a drama |
| 03:06.13 | Thrae | Cairenn: Maybe instead of *sarcastically* it can use inflection, such as "Yeaaah, riiiiight..." |
| 03:06.28 | NightHawkTheSane | Jerub: fire your scriptwriter? :P |
| 03:06.32 | Cairenn | It's a quote ... take it up with bash |
| 03:07.12 | Thrae | But I can increase its versimilitude for no money down and 0% APR!! |
| 03:08.10 | Thrae | I think that's the first time I have ever used the word "verisimilitude" and I think I actually used it semi-correctly. |
| 03:08.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@adsl-068-159-119-207.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net) |
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| 03:18.26 | DWSR | Thrae: I stand by my original statement. |
| 03:18.26 | DWSR | Sorry. |
| 03:19.33 | DWSR | Anyone in here good with android? |
| 03:19.59 | Thrae | DWSR: Your original statement is technically correct, however, I claim the current format is too obtuse and should be cleaned up a little bit. |
| 03:20.00 | Jerub | DWSR: i'm excellent at using my phone. |
| 03:20.12 | DWSR | Can someone tell me the difference in tagging between these two files? I can't figure it out. http://www.mediafire.com/?hwxgi4lwvom |
| 03:20.13 | Jerub | i can make calls and send texts. i don't know what you're actually after tho ;) |
| 03:20.33 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
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| 03:22.07 | Thrae | DWSR: What tagging standard are you using? |
| 03:22.19 | DWSR | Thrae: ID3v2 on my MP3s. |
| 03:22.50 | Thrae | DWSR: Windows recognizes ID3v2, but it's showing "Copies.mp3" as having no such tag. |
| 03:23.11 | DWSR | Android 1.6 doesn't support ID3v2? |
| 03:23.14 | DWSR | What the fuck? |
| 03:23.21 | NightHawkTheSane | er, yes it does? |
| 03:23.39 | NightHawkTheSane | i think |
| 03:23.44 | DWSR | Wait. |
| 03:23.46 | DWSR | It has /no/ tags? |
| 03:23.49 | DWSR | lolwut? |
| 03:24.01 | DWSR | sec. |
| 03:24.39 | DWSR | Uploading a file that works correctly. |
| 03:24.45 | NightHawkTheSane | hm, i'm showing 'copies' as having id3v2.4 tags, and no id3v1 tags, while digital love has id3v2.3 and no v1 tags |
| 03:25.27 | Jerub | idv3v2 is hard yo |
| 03:25.30 | Thrae | DWSR: http://www.id3.org/Implementations <-- try one of these applications. Apple is suppose to be in compliance. |
| 03:25.44 | Jerub | *goes back to installing dangerous stuff on his android* |
| 03:26.14 | DWSR | I used Tag&rename. |
| 03:26.20 | NightHawkTheSane | also, huh, maybe android really does only read id3v1 tags |
| 03:26.37 | DWSR | Anyway. |
| 03:26.46 | DWSR | One sec, I'll upload another file that works properly in the player. |
| 03:26.59 | Amarande | Night: hmm |
| 03:27.05 | Amarande | shall I ask my buddy who works for google? |
| 03:27.31 | Thrae | DWSR: Try a GPL one like http://easytag.sourceforge.net/ or http://mp3diags.sourceforge.net/ or http://saitodisse.com.br/tagmp3saito/, as they use libraries helped developed by the organization. |
| 03:28.13 | DWSR | http://www.mediafire.com/?mvhktdtymia Thrae, NHTS |
| 03:28.19 | DWSR | That one also works properly in my player. |
| 03:29.10 | DWSR | This shit is driving me mental. |
| 03:29.11 | Thrae | DWSR: http://idfree.sourceforge.net/ <-- here we go. This one uses a framework designed around id3lib. |
| 03:29.42 | NightHawkTheSane | DWSR: hm, again, that shows as having v2.4 tags, no v1 tags, and almost all the fields are blank for me.. |
| 03:29.58 | DWSR | I stripped out everything but artist, album, disc/track #, album artist. |
| 03:30.09 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, all i see is track# |
| 03:30.10 | NightHawkTheSane | : |
| 03:30.11 | NightHawkTheSane | :P |
| 03:30.20 | DWSR | On purpose. My Samsung PAP goes nuts when shit like catalog # is in there. |
| 03:31.24 | Thrae | DWSR: Yeah that's not showing up in Windows or IDFree. I suggest you try something based off id3lib, which is cross-platform. |
| 03:32.01 | DWSR | Going to try syncing the v2 and v1 tags first. |
| 03:32.04 | DWSR | If that doesn't work, we'll see. |
| 03:32.23 | Thrae | DWSR: If you're editing this on your Android or even your computer, maybe whatever you are using to view it is connecting to the Internet and retrieving data based on the checksum. |
| 03:32.24 | kd3 | points at MusicBrainz's "Picard" app |
| 03:32.36 | DWSR | kd3: Piece of shit. |
| 03:32.43 | Thrae | DWSR: Try making a blank MP3 and editing the tags by hand. |
| 03:32.44 | Amarande | I asked my Google buddy if id3v2 is supported in android |
| 03:32.47 | Amarande | I think he's afk though :S |
| 03:33.00 | Amarande | will have to worry about android compatibility eventually too |
| 03:33.05 | Amarande | since *someday* I'm getting a N1 |
| 03:33.22 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 03:33.37 | DWSR | kd3: Picard's a piece of shit. |
| 03:33.42 | DWSR | MB is also a piece of shit. |
| 03:33.47 | Thrae | DWSR: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1057 |
| 03:33.57 | Shirik | my log looks really weird now |
| 03:34.04 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: yeah, i just came across that myself |
| 03:34.08 | NightHawkTheSane | looks like mixed reports, though |
| 03:34.17 | Shirik | kd3: How to know an admin is abusing his powers: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&user=Shirik&limit=4 |
| 03:34.31 | Thrae | NightHawkTheSane: Doesn't seem *stable* to me, though |
| 03:34.46 | kd3 | whee |
| 03:34.50 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: true, but i'm not seeing a consistency about what is working for who in which version :P |
| 03:34.56 | Thrae | Seems like ID3 may work but not ID3v2 |
| 03:34.56 | Jerub | okay, this process of learning how to upgrade my phone has been worth it: i just learned how to take a proper backup of the phone |
| 03:35.30 | Thrae | NightHawkTheSane: I saw a consensus that later versions of ID3 (like 2.4.0) are having problems. |
| 03:36.04 | Amarande | (also: would I be experiencing these same problems with the nexus one, I wonder ... N1 might have a better version of Android, but I doubt it) |
| 03:36.17 | Amarande | I know N1 has a lot of neat stuff though |
| 03:36.24 | Amarande | to the point that apparently bookstores and such hate N1's |
| 03:36.35 | Amarande | and retail in general, perhaps, that are aware of it |
| 03:36.50 | Kraps | Shirik: lolwut http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Smokizzy&diff=cur |
| 03:36.57 | Jerub | Amarande: why fear capitalism and the free market? |
| 03:37.01 | Jerub | (bwahahah) |
| 03:37.06 | Shirik | yeah Kraps |
| 03:37.11 | Shirik | people are giving them out almost like a bot |
| 03:37.15 | Shirik | I'm actually quite pissed about that |
| 03:37.15 | Shirik | but w/e |
| 03:37.20 | Amarande | Jerub: apparently, retailers are pissed because it interferes with their sales schemes |
| 03:37.23 | Shirik | you probably got flagged because you are a rollbacker |
| 03:37.40 | Amarande | because the nexus one apparently comes with an app where you just use the camera to photograph the barcode on an item |
| 03:37.42 | Shirik | Btw Kraps: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&user=Shirik |
| 03:37.44 | Amarande | and you get instant access to reviews and such |
| 03:37.49 | Shirik | Btw Kraps: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&user=Shirik&limit=4 |
| 03:37.54 | Amarande | plus, the kind of people who own nexus ones are likely to be savvy enough to USE things like that |
| 03:37.55 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: *shrug* i dont see a particular consensus, but oh well. |
| 03:38.09 | Amarande | kinda throws retailers for a bender if they were ordered by their bosses to sell something that sucks :) |
| 03:38.19 | NightHawkTheSane | my g1 hasn't had any issues reading tags, but i compulsively add both v1.1 and v2.4 tags to everything |
| 03:38.22 | DWSR | Well, let's see if the v1 conversion helped. |
| 03:38.56 | Thrae | Amarande: Yeah, you can do that with non-Droid phones too, but it's not nearly as easy. |
| 03:39.16 | Kraps | Shirik: OP |
| 03:39.24 | Shirik | :P |
| 03:39.25 | Thrae | Honestly I'm waiting for 4G. |
| 03:39.28 | NightHawkTheSane | Amarande: that has.. uh, nothing to do with the nexus one |
| 03:40.03 | Thrae | So new phone in...probably 2011 (USA) |
| 03:40.07 | Shirik | I'm waiting for 5G |
| 03:40.23 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: pfft, sprint has 4g now, though! :P |
| 03:40.48 | Thrae | NightHawkTheSane: Not really. It's very centralized and using WiMAX, which doesn't conform to the entire 4G standard. |
| 03:40.54 | Jerub | Amarande: yes, i've seen it. |
| 03:41.07 | Jerub | Amarande: it's more than barcodes tho. there's an amazon app you can use where you take a photograph of a product. |
| 03:41.08 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: that was sarcasm. ;) |
| 03:41.28 | Jerub | Amarande: like, take a photo of a book cover and see how much it sells for on amazon |
| 03:41.29 | NightHawkTheSane | Jerub: amazon has one now too? i know google released one some time ago |
| 03:41.30 | Thrae | But anyway, what I'd really like is a *good* phone that's *capable* of 4G. |
| 03:41.41 | Jerub | NightHawkTheSane: i think it was amazon |
| 03:41.44 | Jerub | a friend showed it to me |
| 03:41.49 | Thrae | I'd love a 4G Droid. |
| 03:41.51 | Jerub | wasn't that useful: was mostly american data |
| 03:42.10 | Jerub | but i'm .au |
| 03:42.11 | NightHawkTheSane | Jerub: Google Goggles can recognize products by taking a picture of tehm, and search (google) for info. |
| 03:43.21 | Amarande | bah |
| 03:43.25 | Thrae | http://www.pcworld.com/article/192184/sprint_and_htc_reveal_the_evo_4g_android_smartphone.html |
| 03:43.28 | Amarande | you still can't get a discount on a nexus one with at&t though |
| 03:43.34 | Amarande | I'd have to order it from google directly for 529$ |
| 03:43.58 | Iriel | Does AT&T give you a credit if you dont have a phone from them, like t-mobile apparently does? |
| 03:44.04 | Amarande | Not sure |
| 03:44.12 | Amarande | I'm also not sure how it would interact with my plan, since I have the phone insurance thingy |
| 03:44.18 | Amarande | wow, I'm not even sure if that's worth it to pay 529 either |
| 03:44.19 | Jerub | NightHawkTheSane: that's probably what it was |
| 03:44.24 | Thrae | http://media-newswire.com/release_1121259.html, "Android Based Sprint Evo 4G Strong Sales Stir Competition" |
| 03:44.29 | Slackwise | Oh wow, the Auction House app is out for Android. @_@ |
| 03:44.30 | Amarande | given that it's 179 to get with a new contract from one of Google's partners |
| 03:44.42 | Amarande | even with the 175 ETF to cancel AT&T, it would be cheaper than 529 |
| 03:45.31 | Thrae | "Specifications sheets for the new phone include a 4.3 inch screen, 1 gigahertz processor, HDMI cable connection, two cameras built in with one capable of 8 megapixels, and WiFi hotspot capability." <-- wtf two cameras? |
| 03:45.45 | DWSR | Slackwise: Android getting an armory app? |
| 03:45.46 | A-KO | iphone has 2 cameras also |
| 03:45.54 | A-KO | http://www.wickedlasers.com/laser-tech/blue_light_hazard.html < lol |
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| 03:46.06 | A-KO | Thrae: iphone has a front-facing camera and a rear camera |
| 03:46.07 | Thrae | Why 2 cameras? For large landscape / portrait? |
| 03:46.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: front facing |
| 03:46.19 | Jerub | for video calling |
| 03:46.26 | Jerub | you know. self-porn |
| 03:46.30 | NightHawkTheSane | also for taking shitty myspace pictures of yourself |
| 03:46.34 | Slackwise | DWSR: Not that I've seen. |
| 03:46.38 | DWSR | fail |
| 03:46.50 | Thrae | If it's the case of needing it on the Front, why not just put it on the front and put controls to it on the back? |
| 03:47.08 | Thrae | It's actually cheaper to design it with TWO cameras? Weird... |
| 03:47.17 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: it's for video conferencing, where you want to see the screen and have a camera on you :P |
| 03:47.24 | Slackwise | This is really well done. |
| 03:47.56 | Slackwise | It's only years too late. |
| 03:48.03 | Slackwise | When gold meant something to me. |
| 03:48.10 | Thrae | NightHawkTheSane: Right, I'm not arguing why it's on the front, I'm arguing why there's two of 'em. Couldn't you place controls on the back, maybe even a tiny LCD, for about the same cost? |
| 03:48.10 | NightHawkTheSane | the front-facing camera is typically lower quality, because you dont exactly want/need an amazing camera for that. |
| 03:48.35 | Slackwise | Now I yawn as I make like 2k gold a week somehow doing nothing. :/ |
| 03:48.38 | Jerub | wooo, nearly installed wrong firmware |
| 03:48.41 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: its probably cheaper to put a lower quality camera on the front, than design the phone around being able to control the camera from the other side |
| 03:48.54 | Thrae | NightHawkTheSane: Bleh, weirdo designers |
| 03:48.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 03:49.12 | Jerub | cameras are cheap |
| 03:49.22 | NightHawkTheSane | Thrae: nah, i think adding extraneous lcds/controls to the back of a phone are silly design :P |
| 03:49.30 | NightHawkTheSane | compared to the fairly small footprint a second camera would have |
| 03:50.24 | Kraps | Shirik: doesnt it need a change in rights? |
| 03:50.29 | Kraps | nothing here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&user=Smokizzy |
| 03:50.30 | Shirik | yes |
| 03:50.43 | Jerub | but this is also apple we're taling about |
| 03:50.44 | Shirik | that's because you don't know how to look at your log |
| 03:50.56 | Shirik | Try http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=&user=&page=User:Smokizzy |
| 03:50.59 | Jerub | who thought it was okay to release a product like the ipad without a usb port |
| 03:51.00 | Thrae | Wow, the HTC EVO 4G is only $199.99 |
| 03:51.03 | NightHawkTheSane | Jerub: no, htc does the same with the evo4g |
| 03:51.13 | Kraps | lolwut |
| 03:51.20 | Shirik | you were looking at log entries of your actions |
| 03:51.22 | Shirik | not actions on you |
| 03:51.26 | Jerub | to put a whole second camera on it was probably a 2-3 week shitfight at upper levels of management. |
| 03:51.29 | Kraps | yeah just got that |
| 03:52.04 | Shirik | however I don't like how it works |
| 03:52.16 | Shirik | the user page log and the actual user log get mixed together |
| 03:52.17 | Shirik | http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=&user=&page=User:Shirik |
| 03:54.08 | Thrae | Ahahaha |
| 03:54.20 | Thrae | Sprint will give me $10 for my current phone (PPC6800) |
| 03:54.27 | Thrae | What a bargain! |
| 03:54.41 | Jerub | i thought cash for clunkers was over? |
| 03:58.08 | Thrae | http://shop.sprint.com/NASApp/onlinestore/en/Action/DisplayPhones?phoneSKU=APA9292KT |
| 04:00.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu (~Sesshu@ip-107-16.travedsl.de) |
| 04:03.21 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (~MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 04:03.21 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 04:06.47 | Kraps | Shirik: you're not a checkuser? |
| 04:06.51 | Shirik | no? |
| 04:07.05 | Shirik | I'm an SPI clerk |
| 04:07.09 | Shirik | but not all clerks are CUs |
| 04:13.42 | Tuller | I spent entirely too much time making a font selector: http://i45.tinypic.com/2cxztqo.png |
| 04:14.35 | Iriel | Tuller: Hopefully you dont instantiate the fonts unless the tab is shown |
| 04:14.48 | Iriel | It looks purty, by the way |
| 04:19.14 | Cide | Tuller, the top left box is misaligned |
| 04:19.40 | Tuller | Iriel: nothing is generated until onshow, yes |
| 04:19.42 | Tuller | Cide: yep :P |
| 04:19.52 | Cide | Fix it! |
| 04:21.30 | Thunder_Child | Iriel: http://www.popphoto.com/reviews/lenses/2010/06/lens-test-nikon-24mm-f14g-ed-af-s-nikkor |
| 04:21.37 | Tuller | i will, once I figure out why its broken :P |
| 04:23.51 | *** join/#wowuidev SeanK (~seank@pool-98-117-120-73.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 04:23.58 | Shirik | Thunder_Child: "and the M/A focusing mode that lets you fine-tune focus manually while in autofocus mode. " |
| 04:24.01 | Shirik | isn't this ubiquitous? |
| 04:24.10 | Shirik | I know all my lenses have it |
| 04:26.37 | Tuller | the fix is apparently to switch to fullscreen mode |
| 04:27.05 | Cide | yeah, the rendering engine isn't good at pixel-perfect textures |
| 04:28.46 | Jerub | bnet authetnicator requires root on phone.. |
| 04:31.23 | Iriel | Thunder_Child: I've been semi-lusting after the 85mm f1.4 lately |
| 04:31.29 | Iriel | That one's a bit wide |
| 04:31.37 | Iriel | Jerub: which phone? |
| 04:37.08 | Shirik | Iriel: I pose the same question to you |
| 04:37.21 | Kraps | [2] [Brewsader]: lol u windows guys... I can click at the apple store and download 4 gb ram |
| 04:37.38 | Kraps | rly? |
| 04:37.39 | Shirik | ... |
| 04:38.03 | Iriel | Shirik: which question? |
| 04:38.19 | Shirik | (21:23:42) (@Shirik) Thunder_Child: "and the M/A focusing mode that lets you fine-tune focus manually while in autofocus mode. " (21:23:45) (@Shirik) isn't this ubiquitous? (21:23:54) (@Shirik) I know all my lenses have it |
| 04:40.47 | Iriel | It seems to be ubiquitous on lenses with their own motor, it's not so on lenses that use camera-driven focus. Those sometimes (often?) need you to disengage AF |
| 04:41.08 | Iriel | All of my AF-S lenses allow the M/A override, my non-AF-S lens doesn't |
| 04:41.27 | Iriel | actually, I have 2 of those, and neither does |
| 04:43.18 | Iriel | Of course, I dont think canon do mechanical focus coupling between camera and lens anymore at all do they? |
| 04:43.50 | Shirik | ah so that's it |
| 04:43.52 | Shirik | yes |
| 04:44.00 | Shirik | All AF is done on the lens with Canon |
| 04:44.05 | Shirik | so I guess they just all support it |
| 04:44.15 | Iriel | That would make sense |
| 04:44.26 | Amarande | my last SLR was an old Olympus with no AF at all |
| 04:46.39 | Amarande | Shirik: it probably also gives them an excuse to add another hundred bucks to the price of lenses :) |
| 04:47.10 | Shirik | eh |
| 04:47.14 | Shirik | I'm ok with paying money for lenses |
| 04:47.50 | Shirik | I mean I just shelled out $2500 on a lens without really considering it much |
| 04:47.51 | Shirik | so |
| 04:48.01 | Shirik | (btw, awesome decision, but that's another story |
| 04:48.08 | Iriel | You obviously dont have a mortgage 8-) |
| 04:48.20 | Shirik | I do not! |
| 04:48.50 | Iriel | That tends to impact the "without really considering it much" side of the equation 8-) |
| 04:51.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (~Vilkku@86-60-145-155-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 04:52.11 | Jerub | Iriel: htc magic |
| 04:52.42 | Iriel | Jerub: That's odd - any inkling why? |
| 04:53.30 | Jerub | i don't really know |
| 04:53.35 | Jerub | i've decided to let it |
| 04:53.54 | Jerub | i just installed 2.1 and have a non-standard firmware... but that shouldn't do this.. |
| 04:54.07 | Jerub | anyway, got it running and associated now |
| 05:03.03 | Cide | hey guys |
| 05:03.05 | Cide | design question |
| 05:03.17 | Cide | which do you prefer (in terms of highlighting the active tab) |
| 05:03.21 | Cide | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28010/ex1.png or http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28010/ex2.png |
| 05:04.36 | Cide | refresh for easier comparison |
| 05:05.14 | SeanK | 1 second one looks to glowy to me |
| 05:05.27 | Cide | 1 second one? |
| 05:05.32 | Cide | ex1 or ex2 |
| 05:05.34 | Corrodias2 | the second is better |
| 05:05.40 | Corrodias2 | ex2 |
| 05:05.44 | Cide | why? |
| 05:05.49 | SeanK | ex1, ex2 is too glowy, soryy for confusion |
| 05:06.06 | Corrodias2 | the highlighted one is more distinctive |
| 05:06.17 | Corrodias2 | i am not always good at explaining -why- i like things, but i can usually pick out what i prefer |
| 05:07.10 | Cide | more distinctive yes, but is it also as good in terms of readability etc? |
| 05:07.10 | Corrodias2 | for me, the second is superior. i'd also want the text on the others to become glowy like that on mouseover. |
| 05:07.10 | Cide | (it would, for example, be even more distinctive if I made it bright pink) |
| 05:07.10 | Corrodias2 | yes, it is as readable. |
| 05:07.10 | Corrodias2 | oh, you mean colors now? hm |
| 05:07.10 | Cide | alright, thanks |
| 05:07.10 | Cide | no |
| 05:07.16 | Cide | I'm just saying distinctiveness isn't everything |
| 05:07.21 | Cide | but any input is welcome |
| 05:07.24 | Corrodias2 | all right. |
| 05:07.25 | Cide | anyone else? |
| 05:09.01 | SeanK | I like ex1 for oppostie reasons. Both look very good the glow on ex1 is just more subtle and doesn't seem to bleed like ex2 does. Of course it could be my monitor is too bright. |
| 05:09.27 | Corrodias2 | the bleeding is intentional, i believe |
| 05:09.55 | Corrodias2 | not saying it's not a good reason to dislike it, just saying that you're not imagining it |
| 05:10.11 | Iriel | Hm, I think I like parts of both |
| 05:10.24 | Iriel | I dont like that the font changes (and so the letters get wider) |
| 05:10.40 | Iriel | (in ex2) |
| 05:11.36 | Iriel | That said, the color change makes the lighted tab stand out more.. maybe just brighten the tab a little more in ex1? |
| 05:11.41 | Cide | well that's the difference mostly (ex2 is bold) |
| 05:11.59 | Cide | the font color is the same but it may appear to change since it's more noticable with bold |
| 05:12.10 | Iriel | right that's what I meant, there are more lighter pixels due to the bold font |
| 05:12.14 | Cide | yeah |
| 05:12.18 | Corrodias2 | i'm used to firefox. the selected tab has bold text and is highlighted in a color |
| 05:12.21 | Corrodias2 | just like you have in ex2 |
| 05:12.38 | Cide | I received complaints that ex2 was less readable |
| 05:13.35 | Corrodias2 | ...maybe it is? hard to say. not enough that it matters to me. |
| 05:16.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Odah (~odahilys@62.153.213.31) |
| 05:16.25 | Cide | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28010/ex3.png |
| 05:16.28 | Cide | thoughts on that Iriel? |
| 05:16.42 | Cide | the bg received some changes (slight gradient) and the font is slightly lighter |
| 05:17.00 | Cide | hmm the drop shadow changed, sec |
| 05:17.06 | Odah | http://books.google.com/books?id=tFZyUCoZe7EC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Beginning+Lua+with+World+of+Warcraft+Add-ons&cd=1#v=onepage&q&f=false |
| 05:17.08 | Cide | that was unintended |
| 05:17.09 | Iriel | Hm, it appears to be even dimmer now |
| 05:17.15 | Odah | pass this link on please |
| 05:17.18 | Cide | the bg is darker |
| 05:17.22 | Cide | due to the gradient |
| 05:17.53 | Iriel | Can you brighten it a little (both start and end point) |
| 05:18.56 | Cide | yep, sec |
| 05:19.01 | Cide | refresh ex3 (not with those changes though) |
| 05:23.14 | Cide | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28010/ex4.png is slightly lighter on the gradient, but reversed |
| 05:23.40 | Odah | i really hope you guys are gonna pass that link i posted befoe |
| 05:23.50 | Odah | its really gonna save money for some people |
| 05:24.10 | Cide | why would you read that when there are better books? |
| 05:24.14 | Cide | ~wowprogramming |
| 05:24.15 | purl | wowprogramming is probably World of Warcraft Programming: A Guide and Reference for Creating WoW Addons - http://is.gd/7A3Jx - a book written by Cladhaire and Gazmik, or the companion site and API reference available online for free at http://wowprogramming.com |
| 05:24.24 | Odah | thats bad |
| 05:24.33 | Odah | the book i posted is much, much, much better |
| 05:24.39 | Cide | you say that like it's true :) |
| 05:24.45 | Odah | because it is |
| 05:24.48 | Cide | now let us get back to my problem |
| 05:25.02 | Odah | =\ |
| 05:25.45 | Shirik | does anyone else have a problem where when they close the map it takes forever to close? |
| 05:25.57 | Shirik | like it takes a good half second to close for me, and during that time I can hear my hard drive churning |
| 05:26.10 | Odah | time for a new computer :) |
| 05:26.13 | Shirik | no |
| 05:26.16 | Shirik | my computer is fine |
| 05:26.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyn (~faggotry@h187n4-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 05:26.21 | Shirik | WoW does not require complex hardware |
| 05:26.24 | Shirik | and it can run aion |
| 05:26.34 | Odah | "..hard drive chruning" |
| 05:26.57 | Amarande | hmm, any of you familiar with SQL databases? |
| 05:27.08 | Corrodias2 | yes |
| 05:27.12 | Amarande | mainly, I'm wondering if I'm about to screw over another member of a web board I belong to by having the admin fix my account |
| 05:27.17 | Amarande | see ... I forgot my password |
| 05:27.23 | Amarande | and apparently while my account shows in the userlist |
| 05:27.29 | Amarande | it keeps insisting my email is INVALID when I try to retrieve |
| 05:27.39 | Amarande | so I have to contact the admin and have them fix the details ... but now I have to wonder |
| 05:27.48 | Amarande | 1) is that an indication that my user record is probably badly corrupted |
| 05:28.07 | Odah | 2) that ya dont know how to spell your own name email lad |
| 05:28.08 | Amarande | and 2) if so, will attempts to fix it result in the following user's record becoming partially overwritten and corrupted instead? |
| 05:28.15 | Cide | ok, last one |
| 05:28.17 | Amarande | Odah: I've checked and doublechecked |
| 05:28.17 | Cide | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28010/ex5.png |
| 05:28.20 | Cide | good direction or bad? |
| 05:28.23 | Amarande | even tried my gmail, but it wasn't that either |
| 05:28.33 | *** join/#wowuidev daev` (~bleh@pool-72-86-116-158.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 05:28.38 | Amarande | or are modern databases smart enough not to mung the following record when you fix a corrupt one? :) |
| 05:28.39 | Corrodias2 | don't worry about it, Amarande. |
| 05:28.42 | Odah | on the account lad |
| 05:28.46 | Odah | not on the retrieve |
| 05:29.02 | Amarande | Odah: I presume I'd never have gotten my activation emails if that was the case |
| 05:29.07 | Corrodias2 | i predict the worst that could happen is an engine crash, and it hasn't crashed by trying to read the record so far. |
| 05:29.15 | Odah | hey just checking the conditions |
| 05:30.04 | Odah | is the website a WYSIWYG or HTML or PHP? |
| 05:30.09 | *** join/#wowuidev DJJeff (~crazyjeff@S0106001e582ff89c.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 05:30.11 | Amarande | it's a PHP based web board |
| 05:30.20 | Amarande | phpBB3, apparently |
| 05:30.36 | Odah | he doesnt know how to set his MySQL servers up in that case |
| 05:30.48 | Amarande | Odah: the admin doesn't host it, she uses a third party host |
| 05:31.00 | Odah | she* sorry bout that |
| 05:31.14 | Odah | whos the host? |
| 05:32.19 | SeanK | Cide, great direction. I like it lots |
| 05:33.27 | Iriel | Cide: that does seem to stand out a bit more |
| 05:33.39 | Cide | refresh 6 actually, I think it was a bit too much |
| 05:33.45 | Cide | toned it down a bit |
| 05:35.10 | Cide | sorry for wasting your time guys, and thanks |
| 05:35.12 | SeanK | still looks great |
| 05:35.23 | Cide | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28010/ex7.png ? |
| 05:35.35 | Odah | holy shit |
| 05:35.38 | Odah | that looks awesome |
| 05:35.39 | Corrodias2 | that's fine |
| 05:35.40 | Iriel | I like 7 |
| 05:35.46 | SeanK | I like the yellow better |
| 05:35.54 | Iriel | I'm fine with the yellow too |
| 05:35.55 | SeanK | I like 7 too |
| 05:35.57 | Corrodias2 | i like the other color better, too, but it's acceptable |
| 05:36.05 | Iriel | I suspect id' have to see it in context to know which I liked MORE in the real world |
| 05:36.11 | Odah | dude i couldnt make this if my life was to be at stake, this is great |
| 05:37.18 | Cide | I'll link you the full image in a sec |
| 05:37.30 | Cide | once dropbox decided to upload it |
| 05:37.45 | Cide | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28010/Tabs7.jpg |
| 05:37.55 | DJJeff | annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd alishar is done X_X |
| 05:37.58 | DJJeff | boooooooooom |
| 05:38.03 | DJJeff | I have moved servers X_X |
| 05:38.13 | DJJeff | thorium brotherhood is the failhood |
| 05:38.44 | DJJeff | arent there servers that can pug icc and down lich king? |
| 05:38.58 | Odah | Aerie Peak |
| 05:39.06 | SeanK | I think white wroks there beacus of the white tone in the banner at the top. though a color towards the gold in the II might works as well. |
| 05:39.19 | Odah | we downed H ICC10 and 25 in one PuG with no wipes |
| 05:39.24 | Cide | I think the yellow from before was pretty close to the header |
| 05:39.45 | SeanK | I liked the yellow out of context better. |
| 05:39.58 | Cide | well, in context is what matters :P |
| 05:39.58 | Iriel | I think yellow probably will be better in context |
| 05:40.03 | Cide | I linked it, Iriel |
| 05:40.06 | Cide | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28010/Tabs7.jpg |
| 05:40.07 | Amarande | Odah: HostingDelivered |
| 05:40.17 | Amarande | which use phpBB3, doesn't say at the bottom what version thereof though |
| 05:40.33 | Amarande | so, even if my user account is badly corrupted, as long as it can be recovered and reset it's still not going to overwrite onto the next user's data? |
| 05:40.38 | Iriel | I saw that, thus my 'yellow in context' comment 8-) |
| 05:40.43 | Cide | oh |
| 05:40.45 | Cide | let me try that |
| 05:40.46 | Amarande | would find it unbelievable if mySQL etc. are that stupid, but you never know :) |
| 05:40.51 | Odah | no thats impossible |
| 05:40.57 | Amarande | yeah, I figured so |
| 05:41.04 | Amarande | given that if databases were that vulnerable to cascading corruption |
| 05:41.09 | Cide | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28010/Tabs6.jpg |
| 05:41.09 | Amarande | the internets would have melted ages ago heh |
| 05:41.17 | Amarande | heh can you imagine if that happened in wow |
| 05:41.31 | Amarande | "sorry, someone's character got corrupted and now everyone who created one after them will have to reroll" |
| 05:41.32 | Odah | MySQL servers have tables, each user in there own cell. Unless the administrator wipes the entire table... |
| 05:41.33 | SeanK | Awesome! Tab6 is the bomb |
| 05:41.33 | Amarande | man |
| 05:41.39 | Amarande | blizzard would go out of business then I think heh |
| 05:42.03 | Iriel | Yeah, Tab6 is my choice too |
| 05:42.05 | Odah | i'd go out of business, gaming that is |
| 05:42.19 | Cide | Odah, any preference? |
| 05:42.28 | Odah | what do you mean |
| 05:42.35 | Cide | tab6 vs tab7! |
| 05:42.50 | Odah | aye sorry been busy yaking |
| 05:43.08 | Odah | tab6 lad |
| 05:43.17 | Cide | thanks guys |
| 05:43.29 | Cide | sorry for hijacking the channel |
| 05:43.51 | Odah | @Amarande, your friend couldnt find a better website could she? This is the worst hosting site I have ever seen |
| 05:44.13 | Odah | back in my day all we had is SMFree |
| 05:45.35 | Odah | hey WoW PTR 3.4 is coming up next month |
| 05:46.49 | Kraps | http://kotaku.com/5567578/the-president-may-get-the-authority-to-kick-us-all-offline |
| 05:47.26 | Odah | and i just created my first addon.. |
| 05:48.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Kivnel (~lenvik@23.213.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 05:51.21 | Amarande | imagines that database administration in the days before the table paradigm must have been extremely nerve wracking. :) |
| 05:51.46 | Amarande | (also, is it para-dime, or para-deem? I can never remember) |
| 05:51.51 | Corrodias2 | the former |
| 05:52.02 | Amarande | also wonders if the word 'paradigm' is usually used incorrectly |
| 05:52.13 | Amarande | hell, even I'm a little fuzzy on what makes something a paradigm :) |
| 05:52.17 | Cide | it's not |
| 05:52.32 | Cide | but it's very useful if that's the ONLY paradigm |
| 05:52.33 | Corrodias2 | you could say it's a popular way of doing things |
| 05:52.35 | Cide | er |
| 05:52.46 | Cide | it's not a very useful addition to the sentenceif that's the only paradigm |
| 05:53.09 | Cide | (it's clearly not right now, with the multitude of non-relational databases popping up) |
| 05:53.14 | Cide | but I don't know if it was back then |
| 05:54.56 | Amarande | Cide: back in the day I seem to remember flat files were pretty popular |
| 05:54.57 | Amarande | however |
| 05:55.05 | Amarande | flat files are EXTREMELY vulnerable to corruption in oh so many cases |
| 05:55.24 | Amarande | a field gets lost in one record, and suddenly the first field in the next record is seen as the last field in the previous record |
| 05:55.29 | Amarande | and next thing EVERY record after that is hosed similarly |
| 05:56.07 | NightHawkTheSane | ... that really only happens if you have no idea how to write a good flat file system. |
| 05:56.09 | Corrodias2 | if they don't use a fixed record size and have no index, then yes |
| 05:57.16 | NightHawkTheSane | the basic csv is actually entirely immune to that, so its not exactly difficult |
| 05:59.04 | Fisker | rage Cide |
| 05:59.05 | Fisker | rage. |
| 05:59.24 | Cide | do you like 6 or 7 Fisker? |
| 05:59.58 | Fisker | i like your mom Cide |
| 06:00.35 | Fisker | you're not trolling me right? |
| 06:00.36 | Cide | that's not what I asked |
| 06:00.43 | Cide | nope |
| 06:00.49 | Fisker | they're identical |
| 06:00.51 | Fisker | ;_; |
| 06:00.54 | Cide | no :) |
| 06:01.13 | Cide | text color changed |
| 06:01.26 | Fisker | i hate you |
| 06:01.56 | Fisker | i can barely see |
| 06:02.04 | Cide | are you blind? |
| 06:02.09 | Fisker | my left eye is grown shut with shit |
| 06:02.20 | Fisker | because i'm sick |
| 06:02.32 | Cide | that's sad |
| 06:02.37 | Fisker | :( |
| 06:02.44 | Cide | anyone who's colorblind in here? |
| 06:02.57 | Fisker | clearly i was |
| 06:02.58 | Fisker | :3 |
| 06:17.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 06:18.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 06:21.43 | Torhal | Ugh. Speaking of trolls, some guy just joined the WoWInterface forums and made four posts...three of which were "support!" in answer to people's queries for help. |
| 06:22.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 06:26.42 | Kraps | \np |
| 06:26.54 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 06:27.47 | Kraps | rolls a d6: 5 |
| 06:28.20 | Cairenn | Torhal: already banned :) |
| 06:28.26 | Torhal | Yay! |
| 06:30.38 | Kraps | is currently listening to Santana - Why Don't You & I |
| 06:30.47 | Kraps | its alive! |
| 06:33.53 | Amarande | the wrath of Cairenn is swift, and leaves no trace behind. :) |
| 06:34.00 | Iriel | Maybe some ash |
| 06:34.03 | Cairenn | Was actually dolby |
| 06:34.06 | Cairenn | He got to it first |
| 06:34.11 | Iriel | and a scent of cinammon |
| 06:34.13 | Amarande | it's like being Zuulaman and pissing off Saetan. :D |
| 06:34.15 | Amarande | heh, speaking of which |
| 06:34.22 | Amarande | I wonder if any of the BC designers was a big fan of the Black Jewels books |
| 06:34.35 | Amarande | it seems odd that there was a place called Zuulaman in those books, then such a similar named place in WoW |
| 06:35.30 | Kraps | http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-june-16-2010/an-energy-independent-future |
| 06:35.48 | Torhal | With names like "Floyd Pinkus" and whatnot, I don't think it's odd at all. |
| 06:37.00 | Fisker | i'm sick Torhal |
| 06:37.36 | mikma | take some medicine trollboy |
| 06:38.11 | Amarande | mikma, medication is not the answer to everything :| |
| 06:38.29 | mikma | amarande: if it calms fisker down, it's answer. trust me! |
| 06:38.44 | Torhal | Fisker: Drink plenty of castor oil. |
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| 06:40.22 | Fisker | no way dude |
| 06:40.50 | Fisker | medicine is like a way of telling you that you belong to the man |
| 06:41.05 | Amarande | lol, I gave up on meds the other day |
| 06:41.11 | Fisker | i'm not gonna be part of their system |
| 06:41.22 | Amarande | apart from the fact that I'm going to have a few days of SSRI withdrawal I'm apparently okay |
| 06:41.35 | Amarande | I might have stayed on them somewhat longer, but the doctors were basically trying to gouge me |
| 06:41.46 | Amarande | tripling the price since the old doctor retired and I was assigned to a new one ... |
| 06:41.56 | Amarande | wanting me to go every four weeks instead of every eight weeks on top of that ... |
| 06:42.05 | Amarande | plus the old doctor never asked for blood work and this one wanted me to get a whole battery |
| 06:42.18 | Amarande | I'm traveling in July and September ... I don't have the money for that shit |
| 06:42.52 | Amarande | and I've already spent too much on nonrefundables to back out :P |
| 06:43.00 | Torhal | Fisker: Give me some kroner. |
| 06:43.12 | Fisker | never |
| 06:43.15 | Fisker | I WILL NEVER SERVE YOU |
| 06:43.23 | Torhal | FINE! |
| 06:43.28 | Torhal | Drink beer at Nyhavn. |
| 06:45.46 | Fisker | i'm very sick Torhal |
| 06:47.08 | Torhal | You need remoulade. |
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| 06:47.40 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 06:54.07 | Kraps | http://notalwaysright.com/in-a-lone-star-drunken-state/5859 |
| 06:57.36 | Kraps | http://store.steampowered.com/sale/ea_week mass effect day ftl |
| 07:01.23 | Kraps | is steam broken for anyone else? http://store.steampowered.com/search/?sort_by=Released&sort_order=DESC&price=0%2C5 |
| 07:02.36 | Iriel | Their website has been in some ways |
| 07:03.14 | Iriel | But steam itself was working an hour ago when I was starting some DL's |
| 07:03.40 | jnwhiteh | Iriel: fixed, sorry |
| 07:04.20 | Kraps | Iriel: oh, the software is working fine, i meant the site |
| 07:06.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (~drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk) |
| 07:07.10 | Iriel | jnwhiteh: 8-) |
| 07:07.12 | NightHawkTheSane | mmmm... contact.. |
| 07:07.24 | mikma | jnwhiteh: "no worries, i fixedet it for you!!1" |
| 07:07.44 | jnwhiteh | :P |
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| 07:11.11 | harl | hi |
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| 07:26.29 | Dagmar | Interesting. |
| 07:26.54 | Dagmar | Apparently Allods Online has added the Lesbian Fairy class to their game. |
| 07:27.22 | mikma | i'm so going to buy that game |
| 07:27.27 | Amarande | wtf? |
| 07:27.33 | Amarande | what country does this game come from? LOL |
| 07:28.03 | Dagmar | Russia |
| 07:28.12 | Dagmar | I just saw an ad for it that basically was a 3/4 moon |
| 07:28.27 | Dagmar | Pretty sure "Allods" means "Islands" |
| 07:28.46 | Corrodias2 | i like the sound of it so far |
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| 07:43.53 | nevcairiel | Hm, is it new that the battle.net account shows a second WoW on your account for the PTR? |
| 07:44.20 | Fisker | yes |
| 07:44.33 | Fisker | well |
| 07:44.33 | jnwhiteh | WOW1, WOW4 |
| 07:44.39 | jnwhiteh | awesomely descriptive names, too |
| 07:44.41 | Fisker | new as in from this testing phase |
| 07:44.45 | Fisker | but old as shit since it began months aog |
| 07:44.47 | Fisker | ago* |
| 07:44.58 | nevcairiel | i dont really visit battle.net so often :p |
| 07:45.01 | Fisker | jnwhiteh having you name your wow accounts would be the biggest step against scamming |
| 07:45.41 | Fisker | though i guess not anyway |
| 07:45.55 | Fisker | since the people stupid enough to fall for a scam would probably be stupid enough to disregard it |
| 07:45.57 | nevcairiel | the name of the wow account isnt really used anywhere |
| 07:46.46 | Fisker | it is |
| 07:47.09 | nevcairiel | not for login, which is the important part :D |
| 07:47.17 | Fisker | no |
| 07:47.23 | Fisker | But it's used for suspensions |
| 07:47.34 | Fisker | <email> - WoW1 for example |
| 07:47.57 | nevcairiel | but if your account is pre-battle.net, it still has the name you gave it once |
| 07:48.14 | Fisker | If you could call it something yourself(like those pre-battle.net accounts) then it would be harder to scam |
| 07:48.21 | Fisker | yeah nevcairiel |
| 07:48.27 | Fisker | that's my point |
| 07:49.21 | Fisker | Most scammers, if they actually bothered making a real looking suspension mail, could just write "<email> - WoW1" and they could basically have an authentic looking e-mail |
| 07:49.38 | Amarande | hmm |
| 07:49.39 | nevcairiel | they usually dont even try |
| 07:49.43 | nevcairiel | the mails are so easy |
| 07:49.44 | Fisker | But as i said, people getting scammed are probably just too stupid |
| 07:49.52 | Amarande | do real suspension emails actually ask you to go to battle.net to confirm your guilt, though? |
| 07:49.59 | Fisker | no |
| 07:49.59 | Amarande | or do they just tell you you're out of luck for three days? |
| 07:50.08 | nevcairiel | you are banned no matter what |
| 07:50.09 | Amarande | so the presence of a url itself is a red flag |
| 07:50.13 | Fisker | they do tell you how you can contest the action |
| 07:50.24 | Fisker | that's actually another nice thing |
| 07:50.25 | Amarande | heh, I got an email today telling me I was suspended from aion |
| 07:50.27 | Fisker | unless they changed it |
| 07:50.30 | Amarande | silly scammers, I don't even have an aion account |
| 07:50.31 | Fisker | their e-mails are plain text |
| 07:50.35 | Fisker | so no url spoofing |
| 07:55.27 | Fisker | lololol |
| 07:59.31 | mikma | antiarc: why is HudMap saying "Waiting..." in NinjaPanel? FIX EEEET! |
| 08:00.15 | Fisker | stop being a panel of ninjas |
| 08:00.54 | Fisker | hudmap is afraid |
| 08:00.55 | zenzelezz | ninjas are usually waiting |
| 08:01.01 | Fisker | hey zenzelezz |
| 08:01.11 | Fisker | did you lol? |
| 08:01.13 | Fisker | because i did |
| 08:01.13 | Fisker | http://ekstrabladet.dk/nyheder/samfund/article1365694.ece |
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| 09:39.27 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
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| 10:02.48 | zenzelezz | Cairenn|afk: http://punditkitchen.com/2010/06/19/political-pictures-in-soviet-russia-sexy-isnt-back/ |
| 10:04.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Schnaks (~Schnaks@p4FC4F8F2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:18.48 | Xinhuan | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B2LPxggvqY |
| 10:20.04 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
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| 10:31.03 | *** part/#wowuidev Witchsong (~nomail@120.252.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 10:31.51 | mikma | Daggaplease's melee swing hits Redfang Hunter for 429 Physical.(237 Overkill) (Critical) |
| 10:31.54 | mikma | bang! 666 |
| 10:34.26 | olafski | do you have an addon that shows that or do you just add all the damage you do in your head ;) |
| 10:35.06 | mikma | yes ;) |
| 10:45.02 | *** join/#wowuidev awweaver (~awweaver@c-76-121-69-121.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 10:53.12 | olafski | I see |
| 10:54.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (~Gotai@ip54546435.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 10:55.44 | *** join/#wowuidev robo\afk (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 10:56.15 | Spejnar | good practice |
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| 11:02.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (kalroth@3e6baa21.rev.stofanet.dk) |
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| 11:34.53 | foxlit | Amazing |
| 11:35.11 | foxlit | (UnitIsUnit("target", "player") and UnitName("target") ~= UnitName("player")) == true |
| 11:36.00 | olafski | explicit |
| 11:36.24 | Xinhuan | what? |
| 11:37.44 | *** join/#wowuidev robokitty (~robotusch@50A2E67F.flatrate.dk) |
| 11:45.10 | zenzelezz | checking for split personality |
| 11:47.41 | zenzelezz | http://clientsfromhell.net/post/714957216/client-i-know-you-creative-guys-sometimes-need |
| 11:51.29 | mikma | zenzelezz: stop suggesting about supplying drugs! |
| 11:52.14 | zenzelezz | you still haven't let go of this NSFW thing, have you? |
| 12:50.57 | *** join/#wowuidev freite (~freite@c83-250-31-85.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 12:53.03 | Fisker | hey zenzelezz |
| 12:53.46 | Fisker | mikma a few days ago Cairenn|afk linked a giant penis |
| 12:53.55 | Fisker | i mean what looked like one |
| 12:54.12 | Fisker | but it was infact 25000 barrels of oil stacked up on eachother |
| 12:54.56 | *** join/#wowuidev KineticColor (~KineticCo@adsl-76-230-238-161.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 12:55.01 | KineticColor | Graphic designer looking for work, check out my portfolio at www.kineticcolor.com there you will find my resume, sample works, contact info and more |
| 12:55.29 | jnwhiteh | KineticColor: poor form, seriously. |
| 12:55.55 | jnwhiteh | Joining a channel you have no idea what it's about.. then coming in and not even attempting to join the conversation. |
| 12:57.26 | mikma | fisker: wobin linked the penis and i screamed NSFAMERICA |
| 12:57.49 | jnwhiteh | could you just stop |
| 12:57.53 | jnwhiteh | seriously.. |
| 12:58.55 | nevcairiel | people that join and spam a link as their first line deserve a kick, not a discussion :d |
| 12:59.10 | Adys | you mean a ban |
| 12:59.12 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573bb4a2.ronqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 12:59.28 | jnwhiteh | *shrug* |
| 12:59.31 | jnwhiteh | I tend to explain myself. |
| 12:59.41 | Adys | i do that in the kick reason |
| 12:59.53 | jnwhiteh | and I can always kick and ban at a later time |
| 13:03.03 | Adys | so I have a program that creates a wrapper to run another program under wine which reads an archive embedded inside an exe |
| 13:03.04 | Adys | :( |
| 13:03.20 | Kalroth | haaa |
| 13:08.36 | Wobin | http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/rowling-mother-alchemist.php |
| 13:08.36 | KineticColor | Actually |
| 13:08.49 | KineticColor | I clicked a link on another irc channel and it joined this one without my knowing |
| 13:08.59 | KineticColor | and then I went to post that on that other channel |
| 13:09.02 | KineticColor | and then this happened |
| 13:09.07 | Adys | or |
| 13:09.11 | Adys | you could just say "I'm sorry" |
| 13:09.13 | KineticColor | I doubt you guys have the capital to hire me anyhow |
| 13:09.15 | Wobin | You accidentally the whole thing? |
| 13:09.25 | KineticColor | Yes I acidentally the whole verb |
| 13:09.28 | nevcairiel | judging from your website, i wouldnt want to hire you :d |
| 13:09.28 | Adys | nobody WANTS to hire you dude. |
| 13:09.31 | Wobin | Hire someone who advertises on IRC? |
| 13:09.35 | Wobin | well |
| 13:09.41 | Wobin | we certainly haven't the capacity for that |
| 13:09.44 | KineticColor | WoW players, so mean |
| 13:09.55 | Adys | Not mean, just honest |
| 13:09.56 | Wobin | But we have PONIES |
| 13:10.00 | Wobin | That SPARKLE |
| 13:10.08 | Wobin | that makes up for a lot of crap, apparently |
| 13:10.14 | A-KO | lol |
| 13:10.18 | KineticColor | nevcairiel, oh really thats the first criticism I have heard regarding my site |
| 13:10.23 | KineticColor | whats wrong with the design? |
| 13:10.29 | nevcairiel | it has a design? |
| 13:10.45 | KineticColor | Obvious troll is obvious |
| 13:10.52 | nevcairiel | looks like some links followed by some images on a white page |
| 13:10.56 | nevcairiel | not much design work in there |
| 13:11.00 | Fisker | jnwhiteh |
| 13:11.09 | KineticColor | Looks like your browser is not loading the CSS properly |
| 13:11.13 | KineticColor | mayhaps a refresh? |
| 13:11.29 | KineticColor | generally this happens because your ISP cut out when loading the page |
| 13:11.43 | KineticColor | I am assuming you have dsl |
| 13:11.52 | Wobin | personally, Mr Color, I'd not have the automatic moving of frames |
| 13:11.56 | jnwhiteh | this conversation should probably end |
| 13:11.58 | Adys | notice how the guy still didn't say "I'm sorry" |
| 13:12.01 | Wobin | ... is it getting ... faster? |
| 13:12.03 | A-KO | with a ban |
| 13:12.05 | jnwhiteh | unless you have a reason to discuss anything here, I'd ask you to leave |
| 13:12.08 | A-KO | on someone spamming their shit :P |
| 13:12.33 | nevcairiel | maybe his page is just not chrome compatible |
| 13:12.36 | nevcairiel | still looks like crap here :D |
| 13:12.39 | KineticColor | Lol I use chrome |
| 13:12.47 | foxlit | Wobin: "I fear this may be the twilight of that purity. A new moon is rising in the sky, a moon of filthy, repulsive thieves who want to eclipse the light of Alchemical Magic with their phony makeshift copies." ==> "QUIT BUYING TWILIGHT, YOU FOOLS!" |
| 13:12.49 | jnwhiteh | Okay, can we move on? |
| 13:12.50 | KineticColor | Displays fine on all browsers |
| 13:13.04 | Wobin | foxlit, subtle meta is subtle =P |
| 13:13.11 | Adys | KineticColor, you really should follow jnwhiteh's advice |
| 13:13.16 | Wobin | (like a werewolf shaped brick in the face) |
| 13:13.33 | jnwhiteh | Just leave it alone, everyone. |
| 13:13.54 | foxlit | wait, somethingawful. |
| 13:13.56 | *** join/#wowuidev chrippa (~chrippa@tanuki.se) |
| 13:14.00 | KineticColor | adys, I really don't play wow so I don't care if he bans me. However, I will stop out of courtesy. |
| 13:14.03 | airtonix | real graphic designers use emacs to display their work |
| 13:14.08 | foxlit | That would explain it. |
| 13:14.21 | jnwhiteh | Thank you |
| 13:14.23 | Wobin | airtonix, LaTeX |
| 13:14.32 | airtonix | at least he's not using tables |
| 13:14.34 | jnwhiteh | I think its clear that at this point all you'll do is bring the trolls out from under their bridges =) |
| 13:14.45 | Adys | You mean we have a bridge? where? |
| 13:14.46 | airtonix | muwahaha |
| 13:14.49 | Wobin | oh man |
| 13:14.51 | jnwhiteh | Denmark |
| 13:14.54 | Wobin | I've been gypped |
| 13:14.56 | jnwhiteh | is the bridge that I hide under |
| 13:14.56 | airtonix | |/------\| |
| 13:14.59 | Wobin | I never got a bridge =( |
| 13:15.06 | Wobin | calls the union |
| 13:15.09 | Adys | Thats discrimination |
| 13:15.23 | airtonix | bloody peasants |
| 13:17.31 | airtonix | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:17.42 | A-KO | damn, I've got a major case of hair on my palms |
| 13:17.46 | Fisker | so you're in dk now jnwhiteh ? |
| 13:18.02 | jnwhiteh | no, I'm on holiday. |
| 13:18.09 | airtonix | therefore? |
| 13:18.18 | Fisker | in dk!? |
| 13:18.23 | airtonix | aha! |
| 13:18.25 | jnwhiteh | In truth, I was evicted from under the bridge for having to take too much medical leave from trolling =/ |
| 13:18.41 | Spejnar | :( |
| 13:18.49 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 13:19.06 | jnwhiteh | occupational hazard I suppose |
| 13:28.55 | Kraps | sundays lol |
| 13:31.49 | *** part/#wowuidev KineticColor (~KineticCo@adsl-76-230-238-161.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 13:39.24 | *** join/#wowuidev teetow (~teetow@c-97e070d5.029-372-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 13:45.35 | *** join/#wowuidev MoonWitch (~Kelly@d51A4DB5F.access.telenet.be) |
| 13:54.40 | Kraps | "and in the name of peace, she made the greatest sacrifice she could. She allowed the Horde into Theramore, and the half-orc Rexxar killed her father. " |
| 13:54.45 | Kraps | WAIT WHAT |
| 14:00.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 14:00.36 | MoonWitch | hey Funkeh` |
| 14:00.45 | Funkeh` | ello |
| 14:00.56 | Funkeh` | hugs MoonWitch |
| 14:01.06 | MoonWitch | hugs Funkeh` |
| 14:08.35 | Xinhuan | jnwhiteh ping |
| 14:09.52 | foxlit | Kraps: daelin was a pig? |
| 14:11.36 | Kraps | he was cautious |
| 14:12.03 | Kraps | idk |
| 14:12.35 | Fisker | hey Xinhuan |
| 14:12.38 | Fisker | not so hey Kraps |
| 14:12.48 | Xinhuan | hey |
| 14:13.23 | Xinhuan | say something interesting |
| 14:13.26 | Xinhuan | i'm bored |
| 14:15.07 | Kraps | Xinhuan: i accidentally a whole Fisker, what should i do? |
| 14:15.27 | Trela | Kraps: Bleach, lots of it. |
| 14:17.42 | *** join/#wowuidev NeoTron (~neotron@pool-173-64-144-164.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 14:23.02 | Fisker | i'm pretty fucking awesome though |
| 14:23.41 | Kalroth | weeeell |
| 14:25.06 | Kraps | no Fisker |
| 14:25.44 | airtonix | Fisker, do you have a fetish for blue boxes that sound like large grind stones ? |
| 14:26.57 | Fisker | yes airtonix |
| 14:29.38 | *** join/#wowuidev DJJeff (~crazyjeff@S0106001e582ff89c.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 14:30.32 | airtonix | just as i thought |
| 14:30.45 | airtonix | you're incurable |
| 14:31.18 | airtonix | you know...most people just have sex. |
| 14:33.06 | Fisker | why so srs? |
| 14:37.27 | Wobin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usn6eo9FeTM |
| 14:37.33 | Wobin | echochrome looks pretty nice |
| 14:39.42 | MoonWitch | I woukd suck at it\ |
| 14:40.14 | A-KO | http://www.nickyee.com/ponder/love.html |
| 14:42.03 | Wobin | o.O tl;dr? |
| 14:43.18 | foxlit | UI developers need to be slapped for every collapsible list they implement using the C API. |
| 14:44.01 | Xinhuan | slaps foxlit away with a large trout |
| 14:44.24 | foxlit | parries with a Fisker. |
| 14:44.33 | Xinhuan | flees |
| 14:46.03 | Wobin | A-KO, although, partway through, I totally expected: 7) Bad romance can tend towards the RA-RA-RARARA.... |
| 14:52.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Vangual_ (~bah@pdpc/supporter/active/vangual) |
| 14:54.33 | *** join/#wowuidev akhe (~akhe@0x573bb4a2.ronqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
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| 15:38.25 | Jamash | goddamn users, finding bugs in my addon |
| 15:38.39 | Jamash | :P |
| 15:40.35 | Kraps | 8 manned emalon, 7 manned archavon |
| 15:42.06 | Kraps | highest dps on emalon: 4.5k, archavon: 3.7k |
| 15:47.08 | foxlit | Jamash: how dare they! |
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| 15:56.37 | Fisker | slaps Kraps around a bit with a large trout |
| 15:56.38 | Fisker | slaps foxlit around a bit with a large trout |
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| 16:09.06 | Kraps | is currently listening to <silence> |
| 16:10.16 | MoonWitch | I love that sound Kraps |
| 16:21.10 | Shirik | Kraps |
| 16:21.17 | Shirik | doesn't this look like abuse of powers? |
| 16:21.31 | *** join/#wowuidev ReAn (~rean@S0106001aa0d40120.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 16:21.34 | Shirik | 09:19, 20 June 2010 Shirik (talk | contribs | block) m (62,610 bytes) (adjusted positioning of reference and removed weasel words) (rollback(AJAX) | undo) [accepted by Shirik] |
| 16:21.43 | Shirik | "Shirik edited" ... "accepted by Shirik" |
| 16:22.55 | Kalroth | Someone told me that weasel words are good in wiki articles. |
| 16:23.48 | Kraps | admins are auto-accepted |
| 16:25.31 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak (~cbreak@77-57-185-214.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:31.12 | A-KO | http://i.imgur.com/Fk5Ol.jpg |
| 16:32.46 | Shirik | Kraps: But usually it says [automatically accepted] |
| 16:32.54 | Shirik | 09:29, 20 June 2010 Shirik (talk | contribs | block) (114,853 bytes) (Undid revision 369195904 by 201.43.151.106 (talk) I agree, but let's discuss this on the talk page as there is some opposition) (rollback(AJAX) | undo) [automatically accepted] |
| 16:32.55 | Shirik | like that |
| 16:33.20 | Shirik | It's not automatically accepted if you make a forward edit while there are pending changes, you have to click the "accept changes" box |
| 16:33.28 | Shirik | after which it says you made the edit and you approved yourself |
| 16:34.14 | Shirik | I really don't like the pending changes interface |
| 16:42.39 | ReAn | what's the current interface number? |
| 16:42.59 | wereHamster | -> /topic ? |
| 16:43.08 | nevcairiel | ~toc |
| 16:43.09 | purl | rumour has it, toc is The current WoW Interface Number is: 30300 |
| 16:43.10 | ReAn | lol |
| 16:43.12 | ReAn | it is in there |
| 16:43.13 | ReAn | thanks |
| 16:43.14 | Kraps | if you join my group as a tank and you are in dps gear and spec because 1) you're a moron and ebayed you account, 2) you can solo the instance in tank gear and tanking is boring, 3) any other goddamn reason, I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN AND FUCKING KILL YOU! |
| 16:43.16 | nevcairiel | we have so many resources here |
| 16:43.36 | nevcairiel | for the first reason you wont? |
| 16:43.48 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~Miranda@200.41.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 16:44.03 | ReAn | kraps: you actually have people try to do that? |
| 16:44.29 | Kraps | ReAn: twice in the past week |
| 16:44.42 | Shirik | so |
| 16:44.46 | Shirik | what does your back have to do with running |
| 16:44.52 | nevcairiel | we had a druid in the guild that queued as tank, and then tanked the instance in cat form |
| 16:44.57 | Shirik | I decided to start running daily, and today my back is killing me |
| 16:45.04 | Shirik | but I'm not sure what the link is |
| 16:45.37 | Kraps | nevcairiel: guild run? |
| 16:45.47 | nevcairiel | nah, lfg |
| 16:46.18 | Kraps | nevcairiel: was it old kingdom? |
| 16:46.28 | nevcairiel | all sort of instances, i guess |
| 16:46.33 | nevcairiel | its not like he did it just once |
| 16:47.11 | Kraps | the 2 guying i had did not know how do it |
| 16:47.34 | Shirik | http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/20/gulf.oil.spill/index.html?hpt=T1 |
| 16:47.39 | Kraps | guys* |
| 16:58.52 | Kraps | this EJ guy is funny |
| 16:58.54 | Kraps | If you still want that quick answer regarding what to socket, here's a quick rule of thumb that will work, but may not be optimal for you: |
| 16:58.55 | Kraps | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:58.57 | Kraps | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:58.59 | Kraps | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:00.50 | nevcairiel | its not really wrong for many classes :D |
| 17:01.17 | Kraps | this is re disc priests |
| 17:02.02 | Shirik | eh |
| 17:02.07 | Shirik | he's kinda right |
| 17:02.11 | Shirik | I would disagree |
| 17:02.19 | Shirik | but it's actually a decent "quick answer" |
| 17:02.39 | Shirik | certainly not what I would do |
| 17:02.40 | Shirik | but yeah |
| 17:13.57 | Kraps | ken has like 99% of his body out of the closet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnFMhr8fNAI&feature=channel |
| 17:18.33 | Kraps | Dragon Age Day on steam |
| 17:19.04 | zenzelezz | so Blizzard sent me an e-mail advertising Real ID... with a picture of the Lich King on the side. Yeah, that sounds like a smart move |
| 17:19.23 | zenzelezz | sign up today, join the scourge tomorrow |
| 17:20.49 | foxlit | where can I receive those exciting promotional mailings? |
| 17:20.58 | foxlit | blizzard has been oddly quiet lately. |
| 17:21.11 | zenzelezz | don't know. I must've signed up sometime |
| 17:26.48 | foxlit | "How Obama has handled oil spill in gulf of mexico" "Now: 59% disapprove; 2009: 51% disapprove" |
| 17:27.06 | foxlit | Prescient opinion polls are all the rage. |
| 17:27.57 | mikma | [20:27:37] Ancient Drakkari Warmonger says: Where's mah mummy? |
| 17:29.26 | *** join/#wowuidev DJJeff (~crazyjeff@S0106001e582ff89c.vc.shawcable.net) |
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| 17:52.58 | Slackwise | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6CyXxDrJJs |
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| 17:58.39 | *** join/#wowuidev ddsmith (~ddsmith@65.215.113.195) |
| 17:58.41 | AbsolutRayne | Hmm |
| 17:58.48 | AbsolutRayne | And STUF users in here? |
| 17:58.51 | AbsolutRayne | Any* |
| 17:59.03 | Kalroth | STFU*? |
| 17:59.13 | AbsolutRayne | Negative |
| 17:59.37 | Kalroth | how can you use the letters fstu and not go for stfu! |
| 18:00.02 | AbsolutRayne | Bad Chance? |
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| 18:00.39 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 18:01.56 | nevcairiel | anyone any experience using kvm/qemu to run a windows vm on a linux host? |
| 18:04.08 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (~drag@88.162.68.235) |
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| 18:14.58 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
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| 18:28.37 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
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| 18:35.04 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 18:35.34 | alestane | The last five people to connect have had voice or operator status. |
| 18:36.04 | Zyn | we need more samples |
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| 18:36.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyn (~faggotry@h187n4-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 18:36.11 | Zyn | nope |
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| 18:50.22 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
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| 19:08.09 | *** part/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 19:08.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
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| 19:17.24 | Shirik | lol wtf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:User_rights_log |
| 19:17.29 | Shirik | Kraps ^ |
| 19:27.02 | Zyn | that's a funny list of usernames |
| 19:30.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Athrun-- (~drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:31.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 19:35.43 | nevcairiel | somehow it feels like the people doing those changes had their accounts compromised .. the people getting access have so weird usernames =P |
| 19:38.40 | Dashkal | There's an interesting hack being used by spammers on my server. how the hell are they spelling words in the air? |
| 19:38.55 | Dashkal | with their toons. some sort of flying bug |
| 19:39.04 | olafski | sounds funny |
| 19:39.08 | olafski | never seen that :o |
| 19:39.23 | zenzelezz | teleport hack |
| 19:39.27 | Dashkal | Happens in stormwind on maelstrom all the time. and they seem to have it macro'd somehow. |
| 19:39.32 | zenzelezz | server's relying too much on client being honest about their position |
| 19:39.48 | Dashkal | I thought they fixed tele hacks back in 1.x |
| 19:39.51 | ScytheBlade1 | in the sense that is unilaterally trusts it |
| 19:39.53 | ScytheBlade1 | No |
| 19:40.03 | ScytheBlade1 | You can hack and fly with next to no effort |
| 19:40.04 | ScytheBlade1 | However |
| 19:40.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Touch ground |
| 19:40.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Instagibbed |
| 19:40.30 | Dashkal | heh |
| 19:40.35 | nevcairiel | usually using a teleport hack gets you banned shortly after, but your corpse remains |
| 19:40.47 | Kraps | Shirik: spread the wealth imo |
| 19:40.50 | nevcairiel | which is good enough for those people |
| 19:40.54 | ScytheBlade1 | it is pretty much 100% detectable |
| 19:41.13 | Dashkal | O.o If it's 100% detectible, why the hell are they letting it work? |
| 19:41.28 | ScytheBlade1 | 15:40 < nevcairiel> usually using a teleport hack gets you banned shortly after |
| 19:41.31 | nevcairiel | too big changes in the client-server protocol |
| 19:41.37 | nevcairiel | to disable it, i would guess |
| 19:41.53 | Dashkal | when detected, forcibly drop the toon to the ground. |
| 19:41.58 | ScytheBlade1 | it would mean the server tracks your position and tells the client where you are |
| 19:41.59 | Dashkal | or kill them with no corpse :P |
| 19:42.05 | ScytheBlade1 | as opposed to the client telling the server where you are |
| 19:42.15 | ScytheBlade1 | now add in lag and you realize why they don't do that |
| 19:42.17 | nevcairiel | well before they only spelled stuff on the ground |
| 19:42.20 | nevcairiel | not mid-air |
| 19:42.26 | nevcairiel | teleport over ground, fall to death |
| 19:42.32 | nevcairiel | dot for character remains |
| 19:42.43 | Dashkal | these spammers somehow stay airborne |
| 19:42.58 | Dashkal | toon in the standing animation |
| 19:43.18 | Dashkal | or lying down for horizontal parts of letters |
| 19:43.20 | nevcairiel | ask a GM to get the flaraks |
| 19:43.58 | Dashkal | gimme the ut flak cannon and some physics simulation :P |
| 19:46.32 | mikma | i was greatly disappointed that you can't corpse explode dead offline characters |
| 19:48.05 | ScytheBlade1 | I heard a really good suggestion regarding removing the corpse spam |
| 19:48.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Have a Death Knight walk all of the capital cities, and raise any corpses he finds |
| 19:48.51 | mikma | doesn't remove the corpses |
| 19:49.58 | Kraps | i'm really bad at mirrors edge |
| 19:50.10 | MoonWitch | YAY |
| 19:50.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 19:50.39 | theorbtwo | ScytheBlade1: The odd thing is that bliz could fix it really easily -- make deaths by falling in cities not leave a corpse. |
| 19:51.07 | ScytheBlade1 | theorbtwo: they don't always fall. I've seen them simply appear on the ground. |
| 19:51.15 | ScytheBlade1 | see above conversation about teleport hacks |
| 19:51.29 | ScytheBlade1 | you make a few hundred gnomes, and teleport in place on the groud |
| 19:51.31 | ScytheBlade1 | *ground |
| 19:51.41 | ScytheBlade1 | get instagibbed |
| 19:51.44 | ScytheBlade1 | and... that is it |
| 19:51.56 | mikma | http://vuvuzela.fm |
| 19:52.07 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ || 3.3.x ToC: 30300 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || Blizzcon 2010 Oct 22 & 23! || 3.3.5 PTR Patch Notes are up: http://cot.ag/bY6mEm || AVR broken in 3.3.5 http://cot.ag/aYo2YE || Are you going to BlizzCon? http://tinyurl.com/22kjfxu || Happy Father's Day to the Dad's in here |
| 19:52.21 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ || 3.3.x ToC: 30300 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || Blizzcon 2010 Oct 22 & 23! || 3.3.5 PTR Patch Notes are up: http://cot.ag/bY6mEm || AVR broken in 3.3.5 http://cot.ag/aYo2YE || Are you going to BlizzCon? http://tinyurl.com/22kjfxu || Happy Father's Day to the Dads in here |
| 19:52.37 | theorbtwo | Death by having a place that is out of the range of where the server thinks you could be doesn't leave a corpse, then. |
| 19:53.08 | theorbtwo | Alternatively, banning makes all of your corpses disappear. |
| 19:53.17 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd be a fan of the latter option. |
| 19:53.47 | zenzelezz | add gallows to all capitals |
| 19:53.53 | zenzelezz | upon banning, move any corpse to them |
| 19:54.23 | ScytheBlade1 | They _could_ do a ton of stuff that people would enjoy |
| 19:54.31 | ScytheBlade1 | If they were into public harassment |
| 19:58.00 | mikma | http://pics.kuvaton.com/bshit/normal_672281148.jpg |
| 20:00.18 | MoonWitch | lol |
| 20:04.51 | Adys | ZorbaGama, here? |
| 20:05.49 | Adys | actually.. anyone who regularly uses rsync? |
| 20:10.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:11.39 | Iriel | I do, though it's scripted |
| 20:11.43 | nevcairiel | i just use rsync because portage uses it, is that good? =p |
| 20:12.34 | theorbtwo | I use rsync irregularly, but reasonably often. |
| 20:12.49 | Adys | Iriel, can you confirm that rsync always updates dir2 with the contents of dir1? |
| 20:12.59 | Adys | rsync interface/worldmap/ maps -avP |
| 20:13.17 | nevcairiel | you use it locally, how lame is that! |
| 20:13.49 | Adys | hm |
| 20:13.55 | Adys | i wonder if its a case issue.... |
| 20:14.18 | Iriel | Sometimes you have to be careful about consistency with that trailing / |
| 20:14.23 | Iriel | Sometimes I use /. just to be paranoid |
| 20:15.26 | zenzelezz | most people on /. are paranoid |
| 20:15.34 | Iriel | nice |
| 20:16.00 | zenzelezz | ;) |
| 20:16.55 | cbreak | http://ab.cd/ef is even supposed to fail if ef is a folder. |
| 20:18.40 | Fisker | slaps zenzelezz around a bit with a large trout |
| 20:19.08 | durcyn | it makes a lot more sense when you use the colloquial "whack" instead of slash. |
| 20:19.12 | Iriel | Actually rsync is one of the tools that's got very good documentation on the behavior or trailing slashes |
| 20:20.22 | ZorbaGama | adys, yes, and yes |
| 20:20.29 | ZorbaGama | though note that it won't *remove* files without an extra flag |
| 20:20.41 | Adys | yeah, -a wasnt it? |
| 20:20.42 | ZorbaGama | and trailing slashes are a bit weird and that may potentially be a problem also |
| 20:20.52 | ZorbaGama | no, -a just gives it the default recursive/copy-a-lot behavior |
| 20:20.54 | durcyn | no, a is for -archive |
| 20:20.59 | ZorbaGama | you need --delete (I think) to allow it to delete stuff |
| 20:21.03 | Iriel | Yes |
| 20:21.05 | Iriel | it's --delete |
| 20:21.07 | Adys | aaaaahhhh |
| 20:21.10 | durcyn | --remove-source-files, or --delete/--delete-after, depending on what you want to do |
| 20:21.14 | Iriel | there are also various flags to tell it WHEN to delete |
| 20:21.46 | ZorbaGama | rsync is a ridiculously powerful tool, which also means it's quite complicated. |
| 20:22.06 | theorbtwo | Indeed, but most of the time rsync -avz does what I want. |
| 20:22.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 20:22.19 | ScytheBlade1 | I don't think that android 2.2 can come quick enough for the droid |
| 20:22.29 | Adys | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:22.30 | Adys | yay :) |
| 20:22.49 | Adys | thanks guys |
| 20:23.45 | zenzelezz | I'm wary of --delete flags after my encounter with find --delete |
| 20:23.52 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 20:24.22 | durcyn | what the hell find comand has a delete arg |
| 20:24.48 | durcyn | oh, gnu findutils. i was looking for double dashes. |
| 20:25.09 | zenzelezz | sorry, -delete, not --delete |
| 20:25.24 | kd3 | did you just delete /? |
| 20:25.28 | durcyn | see, totally different. |
| 20:25.41 | foxlit | Why is it that people have such an aversion to the /lfr UI? |
| 20:25.42 | zenzelezz | durcyn: to me it was all the same :-p |
| 20:26.09 | kd3 | fox; becuase using it requires *effort* compared to the lfd UI |
| 20:26.10 | zenzelezz | foxlit: it doesn't have the GS flag |
| 20:26.11 | theorbtwo | Er, rsync uses GNU-style flags -- long flags take two dashes, single-letter versions take one dash. |
| 20:26.18 | zenzelezz | gah, not flag, field |
| 20:26.22 | foxlit | zenzelezz: neither does trade chat? |
| 20:26.39 | zenzelezz | foxlit: doesn't stop them from saying a GS there |
| 20:26.39 | foxlit | You can easily stuff your "Only people with 13337 GS need apply" into a comment. |
| 20:26.59 | zenzelezz | foxlit: the problem here is you're trying to apply logic to the idiots in trade chat |
| 20:29.20 | foxlit | zenzelezz: also, the LFG chat is dead. |
| 20:29.46 | zenzelezz | I know this |
| 20:29.52 | foxlit | You'd almost think that I was filtering it, but there's literarily 0 messages in it for the last 60 minutes or so |
| 20:30.49 | foxlit | Oh wait, I am filtering it. |
| 20:30.54 | foxlit | oops. |
| 20:30.58 | kd3 | LOL |
| 20:30.59 | *** join/#wowuidev DJJeff (~crazyjeff@S0106001e582ff89c.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 20:31.01 | kd3 | caps >.< |
| 20:31.21 | foxlit | Equally dead after being turned on, though |
| 20:32.03 | zenzelezz | the solution is obvious |
| 20:32.11 | zenzelezz | they should switch the default channel numbers of LFG and Trade |
| 20:33.17 | foxlit | Ban you from trade for exponentially increasing amounts of time for mentioning the words LFG, LFM, ICC. |
| 20:34.01 | foxlit | In fact, just kill Trade. Not like any actual trading happens there. |
| 20:34.37 | zenzelezz | they could do that, and create actual realm-specific trade forums like Anarchy Online had |
| 20:34.39 | Kalroth | furry warior lokin 4 icc25 hero grup, geerscor of 2194 and ovr 2100 dps, plz send tel |
| 20:35.16 | foxlit | zenzelezz: the problem with any sort of notice board system is that it's almost mirrored by the AH already |
| 20:35.32 | foxlit | Though having some reverse auctions -- "here's X gold for Y item" -- could be interesting |
| 20:36.37 | durcyn | eve's auction system is about as perfect as you can get, in that respect |
| 20:36.57 | zenzelezz | foxlit: WoW and AO are very different, but I still think it'd be worth trying. In AO you had both WTB and WTS going on, as well as regular advertisements for tradeskill services |
| 20:37.48 | zenzelezz | (for the record, AO also had in-game trade channels, but no AH) |
| 20:37.57 | Iriel | A facilitated 'WTB' system like a reverse AH would be cool |
| 20:38.08 | Iriel | Some games have a since single system for both |
| 20:38.26 | zenzelezz | since? |
| 20:39.18 | zenzelezz | would be nice if they revamped the AH, could include something like that |
| 20:39.52 | Iriel | sorry, nice, with an extra s at the front for flavor |
| 20:40.59 | zenzelezz | Iriel: ah, hehe |
| 20:41.31 | Iriel | Anyone here signed up for the remote AH service? if so, is it cool? |
| 20:41.41 | Iriel | The app is neat, I just can't decide if it's USEFUL |
| 20:42.02 | Thunder_Child | it's not usefull w/o addons! |
| 20:42.51 | krka | woo, we'll get addon development in javascript! |
| 20:43.11 | Thunder_Child | i meant for the app |
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| 20:51.35 | foxlit | So many offspecs, so few emblems of frost. |
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| 21:07.29 | Thunder_Child | and BoA |
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| 21:12.54 | foxlit | "Everyone despises this so-called "feature" except those who sit at the AH all day hoping to score a ridiculous deal thx to this buggy chunk of code." |
| 21:13.12 | foxlit | [The feature being allowing you to input a per-item rather than per-stack price when listing items for auction] |
| 21:13.22 | zenzelezz | lol |
| 21:13.32 | foxlit | Spot the idiocy? |
| 21:13.34 | zenzelezz | I love that one. Been bitten by it once or twice, but I use both the options |
| 21:13.54 | Shadowed | I can't but help and laugh every time people post saying Blizzard shouldn't have implemented a feature you can do so easily yourself |
| 21:14.00 | Shadowed | when 99% of their addons are easy things they could do themselves |
| 21:16.19 | foxlit | (My complaint was that per-item pricing wouldn't lead to ridiculous deals -- quite the opposite. The whining is incredible, though) |
| 21:17.03 | Fisker | sjust remember |
| 21:17.11 | Fisker | i'm thoroughly unpleasant and really creepy |
| 21:17.45 | zenzelezz | foxlit: doh, should've spotted that |
| 21:17.53 | Fisker | hey zenzelezz |
| 21:20.31 | Fisker | :( |
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| 21:32.15 | Thunder_Child | i home someone comes out with a pedo bear game |
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| 21:55.37 | Fisker | invades this channel using vuvuzelas |
| 21:56.48 | Dashkal | feeds Fisker to a meat grinder |
| 21:57.59 | Corrodias2 | * It makes a BBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ sound on his bones |
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| 22:05.30 | eidolarr | is there a unit testing framework beyond rock? does rock's require your addon itself to use rock? |
| 22:06.11 | Fisker | does rock seriously still exist? :o |
| 22:06.22 | MoonWitch | good question Fisker |
| 22:06.24 | eidolarr | i have no idea but i assume that part of it would still work |
| 22:07.11 | alestane | http://clientsfromhell.net/post/714957216/client-i-know-you-creative-guys-sometimes-need |
| 22:07.28 | Fisker | slaps alestane around a bit with a large trout |
| 22:07.29 | Fisker | slapd |
| 22:07.37 | MoonWitch | now THAT's something we need alestane |
| 22:08.56 | eidolarr | so about that unit testing... |
| 22:09.21 | robokitty | oh nice |
| 22:09.30 | robokitty | emblems of frost from the Ahune goodie bag |
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| 22:31.03 | Adys_ | http://dpaste.com/209591/ |
| 22:31.15 | Adys_ | All my USB devices stopped working all of a sudden when i closed wow (under wine) |
| 22:31.22 | Adys_ | Im on a ssh on my desktop right now |
| 22:31.49 | Adys_ | lsudb lists just 3 "Linux foundation" devices |
| 22:34.00 | kd3 | ! |
| 22:34.08 | Thunder_Child | !! |
| 22:36.28 | Fisker | !! |
| 22:36.30 | Fisker | !!! |
| 22:36.44 | eidolarr | Adys_: i have never been able to get WoW running stably through wine, there are always the random crashes |
| 22:36.56 | Adys_ | eidolarr: ati? |
| 22:37.28 | eidolarr | nope nvidia |
| 22:37.50 | eidolarr | especially trying to minimize |
| 22:37.52 | eidolarr | that is just asking for trouble |
| 22:37.54 | Adys_ | good card? |
| 22:38.01 | Adys_ | what driver version? |
| 22:38.27 | eidolarr | now it's a 8 series mobile, but it was a 6800gt, good for its time |
| 22:38.30 | Adys_ | install 19x drivers and if it's a cheap card turn down farclip and groundfx |
| 22:38.44 | eidolarr | i run the latest restricted ones |
| 22:38.57 | Adys_ | Im guessing your crashes are out of memory stuff |
| 22:39.02 | eidolarr | and getting things like vent are such a bitch |
| 22:39.09 | eidolarr | or usb mic |
| 22:39.27 | eidolarr | now i just code addons on linux for convenience, use win otherwise |
| 22:39.43 | eidolarr | you kind of need far clip though for eots and ab and av |
| 22:40.33 | Adys_ | i use an usb mic |
| 22:40.39 | Adys_ | works great as long as you use pulseaudio |
| 22:41.10 | eidolarr | i got it working once and it was such a pain in the ass i haven't tried since, but i think that was alsa |
| 22:41.20 | eidolarr | doesn't pulse only let one app control the sound? |
| 22:41.48 | Adys_ | no :P |
| 22:41.51 | Adys_ | pulse is great |
| 22:41.53 | Adys_ | bit slow but meh |
| 22:42.29 | eidolarr | i could haev sworn when i dicked aruond with it a few yrs ago i cuoldn't have wow sound and play music at the same time |
| 22:42.39 | eidolarr | what distro are you running? |
| 22:43.56 | eidolarr | i don't think the oom killer got me, but even that such a thing can happen is a pita vs windows |
| 22:44.25 | Adys_ | ubuntu lucid |
| 22:44.33 | eidolarr | that's 1004? |
| 22:44.36 | Adys_ | yes |
| 22:44.44 | Adys_ | eidolarr, wine only supported weird OSS hacks for pulse back then |
| 22:44.56 | kd3 | meh, I'm not using pulse and I still can do the wow+crap nowadays |
| 22:44.58 | Adys_ | and oss3 had this sound-for-one-app thing |
| 22:45.00 | kd3 | <3 fedora |
| 22:45.06 | kd3 | padsp |
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| 22:45.24 | Adys_ | anyone aware of a way to force probe USB devices? |
| 22:45.27 | eidolarr | ah alright, maybe i'll try it again then |
| 22:45.37 | kd3 | outside of unplugging/replugging it? |
| 22:45.45 | kd3 | ponders... |
| 22:45.55 | Adys_ | replugging is no good :/ |
| 22:46.52 | eidolarr | do you know what state the system thinks they're in? |
| 22:47.41 | eidolarr | you can try modprobe but you should know what is going on first |
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| 22:49.47 | Adys_ | eidolarr: as i said lsusb doesnt see them, /proc/bus/usb doesnt even exist |
| 22:50.06 | Adys_ | me: adys@azura:~/src/wine$ sudo modprobe usbcore |
| 22:50.06 | Adys_ | FATAL: Module usbcore not found. |
| 22:50.16 | eidolarr | the jacks are directly on teh mobo, or going through a pci card? |
| 22:50.50 | kd3 | whee kernel bug? time to reboot? |
| 22:51.39 | eidolarr | are you sure that's the right module? i'm getting this on a more or less vanilla lucid: |
| 22:51.42 | eidolarr | $ modinfo usbcore |
| 22:51.44 | eidolarr | ERROR: modinfo: could not find module usbcore |
| 22:51.53 | Adys_ | u |
| 22:51.54 | Adys_ | um |
| 22:52.07 | kd3 | er, yah. I don't have usbcore on f12 either |
| 22:52.41 | kd3 | `lsmod|grep usb` returns stuff I have plugged in over usb |
| 22:52.44 | Adys_ | http://dpaste.com/209600/ |
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| 22:52.51 | Adys_ | kd3: can you paste? |
| 22:53.10 | kd3 | http://wowi.pastey.net/137893 |
| 22:53.45 | Fisker | i paste u kd3 |
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| 22:53.52 | Adys_ | bahhhhhhh |
| 22:53.55 | Adys_ | I'm beat |
| 22:53.59 | Adys_ | rebooting.. |
| 22:54.39 | eidolarr | i wish i knew more about linux hardware interface |
| 22:54.53 | Shadowed | It's like trying to put a square peg into a round hole |
| 22:55.08 | Adys_ | puts his square thingy into Shadowed's round hole |
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| 23:00.58 | eidolarr | so no one knows of any awesome unit testing frameworks for wow? has anyone ported lunit or anything? |
| 23:03.01 | Fisker | you have my axe kd3 |
| 23:04.02 | kd3 | awesome. can I have a swordsman? a bowman? a few lackies to tote my crap? |
| 23:04.16 | Fisker | yes |
| 23:04.25 | Fisker | you can also have my vuvuzela |
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| 23:11.41 | Kraps | kd3: destroy ir |
| 23:11.49 | Kraps | it* |
| 23:12.39 | Kraps | without prejudice |
| 23:22.49 | Shirik | eidolarr: I considered doing a few things for WoW |
| 23:23.08 | Shirik | (1) I started work on "Lua Squared" which was a Lua VM in Lua so that we could have access to a pseudo-debug library for debugging |
| 23:23.15 | Shirik | Never really finished it |
| 23:23.32 | Shirik | (2) I considered writing a unit test library, but the problem is most of the developers for WoW addons have no idea how to actually do a real software process |
| 23:23.37 | eidolarr | how far did you get? i've been playing with the same thing |
| 23:23.38 | Shirik | they're mostly cowboy coders |
| 23:23.45 | Shirik | pretty far but I'd have to find it again |
| 23:24.05 | WobWork | Shirik: So? |
| 23:24.14 | Shirik | ? |
| 23:24.22 | Iriel | I simulated just enough of the frame API to test some critical code,but never made it good enough for release |
| 23:24.23 | eidolarr | were you able to execute code? |
| 23:24.26 | WobWork | The ones that understand test driven design would use it |
| 23:24.41 | Shirik | I couldn't convince myself that enough people would use it to make it worth it |
| 23:24.58 | Iriel | Mind you, I dont think enough wow addon code really suits itself to TDD |
| 23:25.01 | WobWork | is that a solid number? |
| 23:25.13 | WobWork | Iriel: true... depends on the complexity |
| 23:25.15 | Shirik | Iriel: I consider that a design flaw |
| 23:25.27 | eidolarr | the lack of a sandbox hurts but, i don't see why you coulodn't make one |
| 23:25.33 | Iriel | Why?I dont consider TDD a silver bullet |
| 23:25.37 | Iriel | It's good for certain types of code |
| 23:25.56 | Shirik | Iriel has read "there is no silver bullet" :) |
| 23:26.17 | Shirik | s/there is// |
| 23:26.37 | Iriel | Hm, i'm not sure I have, actually -- the phrase comes up a LOT 8-) |
| 23:26.42 | Shirik | oh |
| 23:26.51 | Shirik | well it's a very good paper you should read sometime if you can |
| 23:26.55 | Shirik | ~wiki No Silver Bullet |
| 23:26.59 | eidolarr | sure it's no silver bullet, but WoW addons seem like they would benefit immensely from it |
| 23:27.12 | Iriel | I haven't but I really like Brook's stuff |
| 23:27.17 | eidolarr | they are fairly deterministic, not concurrent, etc |
| 23:27.24 | Iriel | So I probably should 8-) |
| 23:27.32 | Iriel | Brooks' stuff, even |
| 23:27.35 | Kraps | http://realestatedementia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/silver-bullet.jpg |
| 23:27.38 | Iriel | I can use an apostrophe, really |
| 23:27.54 | Shirik | stabs Kraps |
| 23:28.06 | Kraps | :( |
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| 23:29.29 | eidolarr | anyway, shirik |
| 23:29.37 | eidolarr | would you be interested on working on either of those projects again? |
| 23:30.14 | Shirik | certainly, especially Lua^2 since it has applications outside of WoW. Actually the other shouldn't be too hard, especially to pair with the OO library I've been developing |
| 23:30.25 | Shirik | (yes, another one, because I hate the current implementations) |
| 23:31.11 | eidolarr | I have played with the lua-in-lua too, is your work public anywhere? |
| 23:31.29 | Shirik | It's open source but never released I think |
| 23:31.33 | Shirik | I'll have to find it |
| 23:33.11 | eidolarr | what time zone are you in? |
| 23:33.37 | Shirik | pacific |
| 23:34.34 | eidolarr | we should work together, it would be fun |
| 23:35.47 | eidolarr | which of those projects has the smallest scope? it sounds like the unit test is the most immediately useful, but relies on the OO |
| 23:35.57 | eidolarr | what does the OO do anyway? why would one use that over the standard metatable games? |
| 23:36.30 | Shirik | unit test is definitely smaller |
| 23:36.49 | Shirik | Oh it does nothing special, it just does the metatable work for you while giving you a familiar OO syntax |
| 23:37.14 | Shirik | class "Foo" ("Bar") { a = 4; b = 3; c = function() ... end } |
| 23:37.24 | Thunder_Child | 'afk lff' >.< |
| 23:37.47 | Shirik | myFoo = new "Foo" |
| 23:37.49 | Shirik | etc. |
| 23:38.31 | eidolarr | i don't understand the first one |
| 23:38.36 | eidolarr | what is the ("Bar") |
| 23:38.43 | Shirik | derived from Bar |
| 23:38.49 | eidolarr | i mean in lua syntax |
| 23:39.23 | Shirik | It would be the same as ((class("Foo"))("Bar"))({ ... }) |
| 23:39.30 | eidolarr | ahhh |
| 23:39.30 | Shirik | so class() returns a function |
| 23:42.29 | eidolarr | well all of those projects sound interesting so if you would like to work on them as a team let me know |
| 23:46.59 | Adys | anyone using adblock? |
| 23:47.05 | eidolarr | yep |
| 23:47.12 | Adys | http://mmo-champion.com |
| 23:47.28 | Adys | does that look right for you? |
| 23:47.42 | eidolarr | yep, w/ chrome |
| 23:47.46 | Adys | thank you |
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