| 00:00.35 | Wobin | They probably had that hard coded in |
| 00:03.33 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (~theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:05.36 | Fisker | pushes the pause button |
| 00:07.27 | DWSR | pauses the Fisker push. |
| 00:18.31 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~Miranda@89-151-222.200.3p.ntebredband.no) |
| 00:30.00 | foxlit | This transcription service seems to be unable to recognize the phrase "fucking shit". Or any of those two words in any context. |
| 00:30.09 | Fisker | fart foxlit |
| 00:30.35 | foxlit | You'd think they'd know what's in youtube videos. |
| 00:31.43 | foxlit | And i'm proven wrong. It got one out of like 50 in this onion piece. |
| 00:33.00 | Shadowed | It's a PC transcription service foxlit |
| 00:36.04 | *** join/#wowuidev tem (~tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 00:36.05 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tem] by ChanServ |
| 00:37.27 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~Miranda@89-151-222.200.3p.ntebredband.no) |
| 00:41.04 | Shadowed | Went to buy mint chocolate chip, got mint chocolate cookie or something weird |
| 00:41.06 | Shadowed | Today is a bad day :( |
| 00:42.45 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~Miranda@89-151-222.200.3p.ntebredband.no) |
| 00:47.46 | Adys | mint chocolate |
| 00:47.50 | Adys | how dare you call that a bad day |
| 00:47.59 | Shirik | heyu |
| 00:48.50 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 00:48.56 | Fisker | i'm just going to tell you that you wouldn't |
| 00:48.58 | Fisker | goodnight |
| 00:50.26 | frontendloader | Ackis: http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/data-tools/ does this still work/if it does it looks like I need to write an additional script to drive it right? |
| 00:50.39 | Shirik | Fisker, you would |
| 00:51.13 | Fisker | but you wouldn't |
| 00:55.26 | *** join/#wowuidev kraftman (~kraft_@88-108-246-33.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 01:00.39 | alestane | Fisker, you persist in believing that despite all evidence. |
| 01:01.07 | Shadowed | Adys but it's mint chocolate cookie not chip :( |
| 01:01.21 | Adys | i dont caaaaaaaaare |
| 01:01.28 | Shirik | I are |
| 01:01.30 | Shirik | care |
| 01:01.34 | Adys | you are |
| 01:02.04 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/428586192 |
| 01:02.25 | Adys | http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/3/5/opposite-poker-face/ |
| 01:03.21 | Adys | face #3 is epic |
| 01:03.25 | Adys | I want that on my shirt |
| 01:03.28 | nicoli_s | .nets treeview is pissing me off |
| 01:03.39 | Adys | why are you using .net |
| 01:04.07 | foxlit | trees are evil. You must cut them down. |
| 01:04.29 | nicoli_s | adys: because .net is fucking awesome |
| 01:04.36 | Adys | sigh |
| 01:06.38 | nicoli_s | adys, we've been over this before |
| 01:07.00 | nicoli_s | i mean come on man, curse is like a living example of .net > python |
| 01:07.16 | nicoli_s | in terms of alot shit |
| 01:07.40 | Adys | when someone tells me "What's a good, user friendly, fast, well developed, well polished website or web app" |
| 01:07.44 | Adys | I don't hear "curse" |
| 01:07.51 | Adys | I tend to hear "google <something>" |
| 01:08.01 | Shirik | the ONLY thing .net is > is python |
| 01:08.02 | Shirik | and perl |
| 01:08.03 | Shirik | and php |
| 01:08.07 | Shirik | Basically any P language |
| 01:08.11 | DWSR | Basically. |
| 01:08.14 | ZorbaTHut | fuck those languages beginning with p |
| 01:08.15 | DWSR | You should take that back. |
| 01:08.25 | Adys | in a surprisingly coincidental factoid |
| 01:08.34 | Adys | google uses python in over half of their projects |
| 01:09.50 | tem | wow |
| 01:09.59 | tem | You create [Flask of Stoneblood]x10 |
| 01:10.20 | Adys | kicks fisker in the [Balls]x10 |
| 01:10.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Bibi (~Bibi@unaffiliated/bibi) |
| 01:10.27 | Adys | kicks Bibi in the [Balls]x10 |
| 01:12.12 | Adys | "This looks fake" |
| 01:12.17 | Adys | it doesn't fucking look fake |
| 01:12.29 | Adys | it "sounds like it could be a fake" |
| 01:12.46 | Adys | it "LOOKS" fake would mean you can distinguish properties you can only see in a fake |
| 01:12.48 | Wobin | Adys, unless... it actually -looks- fake? |
| 01:12.54 | ZorbaTHut | adys, when I was at Google I discovered that you did not need to be an authorized Python developer in order to delete a Python script |
| 01:13.00 | ZorbaTHut | in my group, we considered this a very handy thing to know |
| 01:13.03 | Wobin | like... "This looks 'shopped" |
| 01:14.25 | Wobin | Adys, http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/ is a good blog for 'Was this 'shopped and how did I tell" |
| 01:14.37 | Adys | ZorbaTHut: what do you mean? |
| 01:14.58 | ZorbaTHut | adys, Google had a concept of "you are allowed to code in this language" |
| 01:15.11 | ZorbaTHut | it was basically "can you write readable code, we're going to make sure before we let you check anything in in that language" |
| 01:15.26 | tem | today's penny-arcade is a classic |
| 01:15.38 | ZorbaTHut | it was not necessary to get the review in order to delete files. none of us really wanted to use python, so we gradually eradicated it from our segment of the codebase :P |
| 01:16.14 | Shirik | cog|away: Do you know if there's a team foundation server 2010 yet? |
| 01:16.19 | Adys | well the chromium devs at least seem more than happy to keep using python for tons of shit |
| 01:16.27 | ZorbaTHut | oh, some areas liked it, of course |
| 01:16.43 | ZorbaTHut | my li'l six-person team did not represent the entire company in any sense :P |
| 01:16.53 | Adys | what did you work on? |
| 01:17.17 | ZorbaTHut | ad quality backends - we kept the servers running that pretty much all of Google's ad choice code depended on |
| 01:17.42 | Adys | ah, that part of the brain |
| 01:17.52 | ZorbaTHut | it was pretty fun |
| 01:17.58 | Adys | (props if anyone gets that joke) |
| 01:18.01 | ZorbaTHut | tons of data |
| 01:18.58 | Cidwel | derp |
| 01:19.37 | tem | herb |
| 01:19.41 | tem | herp |
| 01:19.47 | Adys | herps tem |
| 01:21.36 | Shirik | let's play ghost |
| 01:21.39 | NeoTron | ZorbaTHut: lies. you state "worked as google" as it was a thing in the past. Everyone knows that once you go to google, you never leave |
| 01:23.49 | ZorbaTHut | some people leave when they get bored. :) |
| 01:24.44 | NeoTron | but at google you can do whatever you want! there are no teams, just stuff. ;-) |
| 01:24.53 | ZorbaTHut | that is not entirely true ;) |
| 01:24.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (~gryphon@c-71-227-239-71.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 01:25.04 | NeoTron | it was said, it must be true. heh |
| 01:25.32 | NeoTron | no I'm not entirely serious. It just seems based on people I know that went to google that it's the best place ever to work and if you don't work there, you're suddently not worthy |
| 01:26.38 | ZorbaTHut | it is pretty damn sweet - if working at a Google-like company is what you want to do, then Google is pretty much the best place to work |
| 01:26.53 | ZorbaTHut | some of us just realize we don't want to work at large companies of that sort. I, for example, was writing very few video games. |
| 01:28.17 | NeoTron | what other "google like" companies are there anyway? |
| 01:28.44 | Lopeppeppy | SUN used to have that "the awesome-est, and if you leave them you're crap!" sort of aura for a while. |
| 01:28.55 | Shirik | pets Lopeppeppy |
| 01:28.59 | ZorbaTHut | by "google like", I mostly mean "large commercial development studios without any particular glamor associated to the product niches" |
| 01:29.09 | ZorbaTHut | so, Microsoft, Sun, any other big company where you can spend your time coding |
| 01:29.24 | Shadowed | creepy Shirik, creepy |
| 01:29.28 | Shirik | ? |
| 01:29.37 | NeoTron | I always figured Google is pretty much the opposite of Microsoft |
| 01:29.48 | Shadowed | ?? |
| 01:29.51 | NeoTron | I have worked at neither |
| 01:29.54 | Lopeppeppy | why creepy? I feel like crap, he's being nice |
| 01:30.12 | Shadowed | then not creepy |
| 01:30.44 | Lopeppeppy | is in mourning for her thumb. |
| 01:30.45 | ZorbaTHut | neotron, they're quite similar in a lot of ways today |
| 01:30.57 | Shadowed | What happened? |
| 01:31.04 | Cairenn | hugs Lopeppeppy |
| 01:31.33 | Adys | when you get to the kind of funds companies like google, ms etc have |
| 01:31.46 | Adys | it's insane the shit they can pull on their employees |
| 01:31.54 | Adys | working conditions are dreamy |
| 01:32.07 | NeoTron | MS always seemed to be more strict and structured |
| 01:32.24 | Shirik | Actually, M$ is quite lax compared to what they should be doing |
| 01:32.30 | NeoTron | Adys: you mean they mind control their employees? :) |
| 01:32.37 | Shirik | that being said, they are much more structured than other companies |
| 01:32.42 | Shirik | Which tells you something about those other companies |
| 01:32.47 | Adys | very large companies with tons of monies |
| 01:32.54 | Adys | = big working community |
| 01:32.56 | NeoTron | Shirik: it's not like you'd sit in the Office group and work up a new social media website |
| 01:33.15 | Adys | = working by yourself, for yourself, in a big fat company |
| 01:33.28 | Shirik | I find it amusing that Microsoft doesn't use sourcesafe for their version control actually |
| 01:33.38 | Adys | i find you amusing |
| 01:34.38 | foxlit | Shirik: they kind of have a lot of source. |
| 01:35.20 | Adys | and it's kind of not safe |
| 01:35.20 | Shirik | so? I would expect them to at least trust their own tools |
| 01:35.20 | foxlit | It's like using notepad to write C code. |
| 01:35.20 | Adys | Microsoft Visual SourceSafe (VSS) is a source control software package oriented towards small software development projects. |
| 01:35.46 | Adys | Maybe I'll add "small software development projects, such as the Windows NT kernel" |
| 01:36.11 | Adys | and in comment I'll say that I added that because a wikipedia admin said it so it must be true |
| 01:36.13 | Adys | right |
| 01:36.21 | ZorbaTHut | yeah I don't think VSS is really intended for projects of MS's scope anyway |
| 01:36.26 | ZorbaTHut | (as well as being terrible, of course) |
| 01:36.38 | Adys | what do they use anyway? |
| 01:36.39 | Adys | git? |
| 01:36.40 | Adys | HAHA. |
| 01:36.57 | foxlit | "Microsoft itself used an internally developed version of RCS named SLM until 1999, when it began using a version of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perforce named SourceDepot." |
| 01:36.59 | foxlit | same page |
| 01:37.20 | Adys | Although "eating their own dog food" is often said to be part of Microsoft's culture, VSS appears to be an exception |
| 01:37.31 | Adys | Maybe because it's not food anymore once it's been digested |
| 01:39.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Trela_ (~Alexia@user-24-214-136-218.knology.net) |
| 01:52.32 | Lopeppeppy | food is as food does? |
| 02:00.10 | *** join/#wowuidev eidolarr (~zls@c-71-61-178-129.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 02:01.18 | *** join/#wowuidev stupiddigmouse (~chatzilla@111.193.197.11) |
| 02:06.29 | *** join/#wowuidev frontendloader (~queue@207-118-179-197.dyn.centurytel.net) |
| 02:11.53 | Gnarfoz | you are what you eat? |
| 02:13.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 02:15.05 | *** join/#wowuidev kraftman (~kraft_@88-108-246-33.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 02:16.20 | Adys | eats Gnarfoz |
| 02:16.43 | Gnarfoz | Adys: I ate Fisker earlier |
| 02:16.45 | Adys | ~wowiquotes |
| 02:16.46 | purl | http://www.teomyr.eu/wowuidev/irc-quotes |
| 02:31.26 | Thunder_Child | http://theoatmeal.com/comics/computers this is so fucking true it's not even funny |
| 02:31.55 | olafski | the title says it all I guess =) don't even have to look at it :P |
| 02:33.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Arathros (LebQzz@56341ed5.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 02:33.37 | Arathros | i gotta say.. the book is GENIOUS |
| 02:36.45 | *** join/#wowuidev kraftman (~kraft_@88-108-246-33.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 02:38.10 | eidolarr | the oatmeal book? |
| 02:38.48 | Arathros | wow programming book ;P |
| 02:39.52 | Lopeppeppy | It kicks much ass. |
| 02:39.55 | Arathros | ye¨ |
| 02:40.00 | Arathros | freaking awesome ;P |
| 02:40.00 | Cairenn | yes |
| 02:40.11 | Arathros | wish i could get some of the elements to print out in large ;P |
| 02:49.49 | Arathros | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets all those widgets i can createframe on? |
| 03:03.42 | Arathros | hmm question |
| 03:03.51 | Arathros | i have a valiable returning a string |
| 03:04.00 | Arathros | UIParent.foo1:SetTexture("Interface\\AddOns\\PewPewUI\\media\\" .. classtex) will that insert the string at the end? |
| 03:05.28 | eidolarr | if it's non-nil |
| 03:05.53 | eidolarr | or, to be more specific, if it's either a string or a number |
| 03:05.59 | eidolarr | otws you'll get an err |
| 03:06.21 | Arathros | its a string |
| 03:06.26 | Arathros | and it worked ;P |
| 03:06.34 | eidolarr | ya |
| 03:07.05 | Arathros | local classtex = string.lower(select(2, UnitClass("player"))) |
| 03:07.26 | Arathros | its actually working pretty good.. hmm should change the 10 classlines to that ;P |
| 03:08.29 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane_ (~nevin@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 03:08.29 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane_] by ChanServ |
| 03:15.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Trela (~Alexia@user-24-214-136-218.knology.net) |
| 03:23.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Matilda_ (~alexia@user-24-214-136-218.knology.net) |
| 03:31.07 | Thunder_Child | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew9cEATPzDE |
| 03:33.03 | Shirik | has anyone here ever set up team foundation server? |
| 03:33.08 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1, you seem to know everything |
| 03:33.16 | Shirik | I'm getting some error saying I need "reporting services" to be installed |
| 03:34.22 | Thunder_Child | so install them |
| 03:34.42 | Shirik | ... |
| 03:34.45 | Shirik | wtf are they |
| 03:36.01 | Arathros | print(UnitPower("player")) |
| 03:36.06 | Thunder_Child | Shirik: "An error has occurred during report processing. (rsProcessingAborted)"? |
| 03:36.29 | Arathros | how i can return diff energy? |
| 03:36.35 | Shirik | uh |
| 03:36.35 | Arathros | like a shapeshifted druid |
| 03:36.36 | Shirik | no |
| 03:36.42 | Shirik | it just says "You must have reporting services installed" |
| 03:36.43 | Shirik | that's all |
| 03:36.53 | Shirik | it's during setup |
| 03:37.16 | Shirik | I think it might be part of SQL Server so I'm installing that now |
| 03:37.21 | Thunder_Child | it is |
| 03:37.27 | Thunder_Child | "SQL Server Reports Service server" |
| 03:37.40 | Thunder_Child | way to many s's there |
| 03:39.37 | alestane | "I had to make absolutely certain I wouldn't fuck it up this time, or that it wouldn't get fucked up by an anomalous field or ray, so I leveraged nearly twenty folk rituals simultaneously. Some of the birds are lost somewhere in the house. There's salt everywhere now, and cloves, every auspicious herb or mineral has been employ'd." |
| 03:42.06 | Arathros | hmm powertypes to use? anywhere to see it? |
| 03:46.25 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 03:47.18 | Shirik | I just downloaded a 3GB file and I have no idea where it went |
| 03:49.29 | Shadowed | Shirik your harddrive |
| 03:49.35 | Shirik | no I really think it disappeared |
| 03:49.40 | Shirik | I just ran a search on the entire computer |
| 03:50.14 | KarlKFI | protip: if you use MSSQL DO NOT use 'datetime' use 'datetime2' |
| 03:50.22 | KarlKFI | NOW YOU KNOW! |
| 03:50.39 | Shirik | I'm not using MSSQL |
| 03:50.42 | KarlKFI | wants the last 2 days back |
| 03:50.43 | Shirik | not directly, that is |
| 03:52.16 | KarlKFI | datetime apparently only has 1/300th millisecond accuracy |
| 03:52.25 | KarlKFI | but it has 1 millisecond precision |
| 03:52.49 | KarlKFI | so date comparisons are full of fail if you're doing them in milliseconds |
| 03:53.37 | KarlKFI | PLUS java's SimpleDateFormat formats ".12" fractional milliseconds as 12 milliseconds, instead of 120 |
| 03:53.58 | KarlKFI | so when MSSQL decides to give you 2 instead of 3 digitsâ¦. you're fucked |
| 03:54.24 | Shadowed | Hrm |
| 03:54.32 | Shadowed | Document icon with ! in it on my Nexus One |
| 03:54.35 | Shadowed | that seems like a bad thing |
| 03:54.50 | KarlKFI | so instead of FIXING this retartedness, they added datetime2 with sql server 2008 |
| 03:55.09 | KarlKFI | shakes his fist as MS |
| 03:55.15 | Shirik | KarlKFI: Backwards compatibility!!! |
| 03:55.30 | KarlKFI | sure, but it fucks over anyone who's trying to migrate |
| 03:55.45 | KarlKFI | because the migration helper doesn't seem to care |
| 03:55.50 | KarlKFI | and gives you datetime |
| 03:56.25 | KarlKFI | apparently MS is more interested in keeping customers than makign new ones |
| 03:59.00 | KarlKFI | lan party time |
| 03:59.11 | Shirik | omg invite meh! |
| 03:59.44 | DWSR | Anyone here that can recommend some decent defensive 1h weapons? |
| 03:59.50 | DWSR | That are in regular dungeons? |
| 04:00.05 | alestane | What level? |
| 04:01.36 | DWSR | 80 |
| 04:02.31 | alestane | If you can do heroics at all there's a very nice one in H UP. |
| 04:02.40 | DWSR | Trying to gear up for heroics. |
| 04:03.06 | alestane | I think most of mine came from group quests in Icecrown. |
| 04:03.26 | alestane | Or there's a decent tanking axe from the Rageman'e Flipper quest in Zul'Drak. |
| 04:03.38 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, warrior or paladin tanking? |
| 04:03.44 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: DW frost tank. |
| 04:03.52 | ZorbaTHut | oh you don't want a normal tanking weapon |
| 04:03.57 | ZorbaTHut | you want a slow 1h dps weapon |
| 04:04.05 | ZorbaTHut | your threat will suck hideously if you use a tanking weapon |
| 04:05.26 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50268 <-- no |
| 04:05.30 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50191 <-- yes |
| 04:05.43 | ZorbaTHut | (obviously later once you can get them, but that should give you an idea of the important point, namely, 1h and slow) |
| 04:09.23 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Got any suggestions out of lvl80 reg dungeons? |
| 04:10.40 | ZorbaTHut | look through the loot tables for anything one-handed and slow ;) it's not real subtle |
| 04:11.42 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37065 bizam |
| 04:11.46 | alestane | There may be some worth to at least one tanking weapon provided you are not yet in the zone where your armor provides all the mitigation you need yet. |
| 04:12.14 | ZorbaTHut | alestane, honestly, weapon itemization is pretty minimal, and death knights are designed to not need it. with a full set of blue tanking gear he can probably walk right into heroics |
| 04:12.19 | ZorbaTHut | (do you have a full set of blue tanking gear?) |
| 04:12.26 | DWSR | No. |
| 04:12.32 | DWSR | Getting closer though |
| 04:12.36 | DWSR | Still nowhere near the def cap yet though |
| 04:12.39 | ZorbaTHut | just get the crafted shit |
| 04:12.59 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.wowhead.com/?search=tempered%20saronite tada, eight pieces of tanking gear |
| 04:13.17 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Well, I have badges. |
| 04:13.25 | DWSR | so I was thinking of at least picking up some of the tanking T9 pieces. |
| 04:13.46 | ZorbaTHut | if you've got the badges for them, go for it, but, honestly, if you're not in heroics right now, your goal is to get into heroics ASAP |
| 04:13.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Riffage- (~limi@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 04:13.52 | ZorbaTHut | and heroics are not *that* tough |
| 04:13.58 | ZorbaTHut | will the LFD tool let you in yet? |
| 04:15.00 | DWSR | Not quite 80 yet. |
| 04:15.25 | ZorbaTHut | ah righto |
| 04:15.41 | ZorbaTHut | in any case, if you hit 80 and can get into heroics, and you don't feel up to tanking, queue as DPS and sponge tank gear |
| 04:15.48 | ZorbaTHut | the vast majority of people doing heroics don't need anything from them |
| 04:15.50 | DWSR | yeah, that's what I think I will. |
| 04:15.53 | DWSR | do* |
| 04:16.03 | ZorbaTHut | that said, the instant you have 535 defense, you're ready to tank heroics. :) |
| 04:16.16 | ZorbaTHut | and remember you can get +def enchant for chest and cloak. |
| 04:16.20 | alestane | Do the quest in Utgarde Pinnacle (on heroic or regular) for a decent defense chest. |
| 04:16.36 | DWSR | yeah, I have it. |
| 04:16.50 | DWSR | Was wearing the BoA DPS chest until I got it. |
| 04:16.58 | alestane | Save Brann in HoS for shoulders. |
| 04:18.06 | DWSR | yeah. |
| 04:18.11 | DWSR | Did that quest when I was like 75 |
| 04:18.20 | DWSR | So I DEed the shoulders since I was wearing the BoAs. |
| 04:18.51 | ZorbaTHut | I truly feel like DWSR's process here is "hit 80, scrooge up ilvl wherever possible to squeeze into heroics, sponge heroic gear" |
| 04:19.11 | frontendloader | I see nothing wrong with that! |
| 04:19.33 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Meh. |
| 04:19.42 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: I have the feel for tanking now. |
| 04:19.56 | DWSR | Want to tank heroics, but I know that I probably won't be able to walk straight into a heroic fresh 80 |
| 04:20.11 | alestane | I nearly did, as a pally. |
| 04:20.31 | alestane | Maybe not as soon as you ding, but probably within four hours of play time. |
| 04:21.20 | DWSR | yeagh. |
| 04:21.23 | DWSR | that's what I'm hoping |
| 04:21.48 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, well, that's my point - if you're DPS, you *can* walk straight into a heroic fresh 80 |
| 04:21.56 | ZorbaTHut | and you can gear up your tank set almost as quickly as if you were tanking |
| 04:22.23 | DWSR | yeah, which is what I'll probably end up doing. |
| 04:23.38 | Shirik | ok what the fuck |
| 04:23.40 | Shirik | it just did it again |
| 04:23.47 | Shirik | that's the second time I copied the file to the server and it disappears |
| 04:25.43 | DWSR | Jesus. |
| 04:25.56 | DWSR | I'm doing almost 2k DPS in my tank spec at 79. |
| 04:26.04 | DWSR | Why are people so fucking bad at this game? |
| 04:27.49 | alestane | feeds DWSR tacks. |
| 04:29.19 | ZorbaTHut | because they don't bother to research their class. most people don't try to get good at things. |
| 04:30.24 | DWSR | Zorba, I didfn't really try to get good either. |
| 04:30.31 | DWSR | I just faceroll my cooldowns and hold aggro |
| 04:30.40 | DWSR | Right now I'm tanking via auto attack & D&D. |
| 04:30.44 | alestane | I've spent something like four months building my gear and play to point where people don't universally pan my DPS, I frankly don't need to hear about how you can ownz everything without trying before you even hit 80. |
| 04:31.10 | alestane | (Sorry. Not bitter much, no.) |
| 04:31.12 | DWSR | lol |
| 04:31.17 | DWSR | alestane: Just get better at the game, IMO. |
| 04:31.24 | DWSR | I'm seriously tanking while talking to you |
| 04:31.27 | alestane | "Get better." |
| 04:32.07 | alestane | Sure. Why don't I just run back to Dalaran for a few handfuls of +win pills, that should take care of it. |
| 04:32.28 | DWSR | http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20090916 |
| 04:32.52 | *** join/#wowuidev kdtresh (~kdtresh@adsl-75-14-214-43.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:33.00 | alestane | If you're quoting what I think you are, aren't those paladin-only? |
| 04:33.46 | DWSR | hahaha |
| 04:33.53 | DWSR | [23:20:10] <+alestane>I nearly did, as a pally. |
| 04:34.06 | alestane | I don't have problems on my pally. |
| 04:34.22 | DWSR | what toon do you have problems on then? |
| 04:34.35 | alestane | My warlock has been struggling for months to reach the point where the guild doesn't regard her as dead weight in raids. |
| 04:34.46 | DWSR | LOLREALLY? |
| 04:35.04 | DWSR | wait, which spec? |
| 04:35.20 | alestane | Demonology over affliction. |
| 04:35.30 | DWSR | Ah. |
| 04:35.31 | alestane | Suggest taht I should go destruction and I will smite you. |
| 04:35.32 | DWSR | Alright. |
| 04:35.37 | DWSR | No, I wasn't going to. |
| 04:36.12 | alestane | It's mostly been about gear, gems and being that extra 10% on the ball. |
| 04:36.45 | DWSR | Your primary demo or primary af? |
| 04:36.46 | DWSR | aff* |
| 04:37.04 | alestane | I think these days I'm 21/50/0. |
| 04:37.10 | DWSR | barfs. |
| 04:37.12 | DWSR | That's not a demo spec. |
| 04:37.18 | ZorbaTHut | alestane, what kind of DPS are you doing in what kind of gear? |
| 04:38.15 | alestane | ZorbaTHut: wow-heroes figures my GS at about 2400. In good AoE situations I get up to about 5k, single target I'm up to 3.1k. |
| 04:38.19 | DWSR | alestane: You should be something like 3/52/15 |
| 04:38.26 | DWSR | O.o? |
| 04:38.32 | DWSR | alestane: You've spec'ed incorrectly. |
| 04:38.48 | alestane | See, that's the other thing that drives me nnuts. |
| 04:39.34 | alestane | DWSR: So I can spam shadow bolt? |
| 04:39.39 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I hate to say it but from what I hear DWSR is right. I think Ruin is considered pretty mandatory for raiding warlocks |
| 04:39.51 | DWSR | alestane: As opposed to what? Spamming shadow bolt? |
| 04:40.00 | ZorbaTHut | maybe it's not Ruin, but something is |
| 04:40.04 | DWSR | It's Ruin. |
| 04:40.07 | Shirik | ruiiin |
| 04:40.10 | Shirik | ruine |
| 04:40.17 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, does even Affliction use enough destruction spells? |
| 04:40.26 | DWSR | yes |
| 04:40.30 | alestane | Piling up dots and drain life, popping shadow bolts when they proc. Apparently this is teh suck. |
| 04:40.35 | Shirik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJCyREC2a_Y |
| 04:40.43 | alestane | Get Ruin, spam shadow bolt, critcritcritcritcrit. |
| 04:40.51 | DWSR | alestane: You shouldn't be drain lif'ing anyway. |
| 04:40.52 | alestane | Ownage. |
| 04:40.57 | ZorbaTHut | alestane, http://www.wowpopular.com/Talents/Warlock - in general, if something very close to your spec isn't near the top on this site, you're *probably* doing something wrong. |
| 04:40.58 | DWSR | You should be Shadow Bolting. |
| 04:41.33 | DWSR | alestane: Even Affliction shadowbolts. |
| 04:41.38 | DWSR | Every spec has a nuke filler. |
| 04:41.41 | DWSR | You can't get around it. |
| 04:42.02 | Shirik | Holy doesn't |
| 04:42.20 | DWSR | warlock spec. |
| 04:42.47 | DWSR | alestane: There isn't enough synergy between demo and aff to do that for PvE. |
| 04:42.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen1 (~Sixen@173-25-23-10.client.mchsi.com) |
| 04:43.00 | Thunder_Child | Shirik: yes holy does |
| 04:43.04 | DWSR | alestane: Even with a 3.0s cast time, Shadow Bolt beats Drain Life in DPET. |
| 04:43.14 | Thunder_Child | Shirik: or rather it's 'filler' is its primary |
| 04:43.20 | alestane | Meh, I can try it. I'm not critically attached to the affliction spec for raiding. |
| 04:43.22 | Shirik | ? |
| 04:43.26 | alestane | "ET"? |
| 04:43.33 | DWSR | execution time. |
| 04:43.51 | alestane | My attempts to respec have mostly been spectular bombs. |
| 04:44.18 | DWSR | armory? |
| 04:44.28 | DWSR | preferably at elitistarmory or wowhead. |
| 04:44.46 | Thunder_Child | Shirik: smite |
| 04:44.58 | Shirik | how is that a nuke |
| 04:45.04 | Shirik | and that's not in a spec |
| 04:45.10 | ZorbaTHut | alestane, in general, you should be using an accepted cookiecutter spec, at least until you know better. pair that with a good spreadsheet and an understanding of warlock rotations (which I'm finding curiously hard to track down) and you're set |
| 04:45.22 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: I don't know why |
| 04:45.32 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: The EJ warlock forum is up to date and wonderful. |
| 04:45.32 | Thunder_Child | shadowbolt isnt in a spec either |
| 04:46.03 | ZorbaTHut | I've had trouble finding up-to-date rotation info on EJ, but my normal site isn't yielding results for warlocks |
| 04:46.39 | alestane | I love the constant assertion (which seems to be accepted truth) that there is a gospel order in which to hit the buttons to do good damage. My goal seems to be to channel the one true warlcok, which has already been set down in dogma. |
| 04:47.03 | Shirik | WHAT THE HELL MAN |
| 04:47.07 | ZorbaTHut | alestane, well, the problem is that there is. for any set of gear and set of game mechanics, there is a pattern that gives you the theoretically optimal DPS. |
| 04:47.14 | Shirik | This is the third time I've tried to copy this damn file to my server, third time it has disappeared |
| 04:47.26 | DWSR | Shirik: Stop copying into an ro directory. |
| 04:47.30 | DWSR | alestane: There is. |
| 04:47.34 | DWSR | alestane: What ZorbaTHut said. |
| 04:47.37 | Shirik | it should yell at me for that |
| 04:47.45 | ZorbaTHut | it's damn hard to beat the accepted dogma unless you yourself are the one inventing a new, improved dogma |
| 04:47.52 | ZorbaTHut | and you can't do that unless you know your class inside and out |
| 04:48.10 | Shirik | and you know, the least it could do is tell me "hey you can't do that lolol" |
| 04:48.23 | DWSR | Shirik: "You can't do that lolol" |
| 04:48.26 | Shirik | instead of taking 10 minutes and then silently erroring or whatever it's doing |
| 04:48.28 | ZorbaTHut | in tanking and healing there are cases where there are slight flavor differences between specs, where one isn't literally better than the other. but there are precious few of those in DPS because, largely, your worth in a raid is measured by a single number. |
| 04:48.43 | ZorbaTHut | (things get a bit more complicated when you involve raid buffs) |
| 04:48.54 | alestane | Everything else must be sacrificed in the service of maximizing that number. |
| 04:48.54 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Specs providing them? Yes. |
| 04:49.02 | alestane | That's why I don't focus on raiding. |
| 04:49.22 | ZorbaTHut | alestane, what else is there? if you're raiding, your job is to kill bosses. if you're DPS, your job is to (1) not wipe the raid (2) not kill yourself (3) maximize that number |
| 04:49.34 | ZorbaTHut | and the first two are almost entirely unconnected to your spec. |
| 04:49.35 | alestane | Anyway, I'll see about the Destruction secondary. |
| 04:49.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Random (~Denial@unaffiliated/windaria) |
| 04:50.11 | DWSR | Failure, imo |
| 04:50.56 | ZorbaTHut | it's tough. blizzard spends a lot of time pre-80 trying to indicate that there are multiple ways to play |
| 04:51.00 | ZorbaTHut | and then it turns out that there really aren't |
| 04:51.08 | DWSR | not really. |
| 04:51.29 | ZorbaTHut | they design bosses assuming that people are optimizing, and then, naturally, people have to optimize to beat them. |
| 04:51.39 | ZorbaTHut | looking forward to seeing what they do with cataclysm talent trees, though. |
| 04:52.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (~Kandoko@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 04:54.06 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Meh. |
| 04:54.16 | DWSR | "You pay $15 a month to play the way that you want to play. |
| 04:54.33 | DWSR | The other 24 people in the raid pay their $15 to play the way that they want to play. |
| 04:54.53 | DWSR | That's 24x$15 dollars that say that you should stop fucking around and DPS/tank/heal well." |
| 04:55.07 | ZorbaTHut | true, but some people don't have that as their goal, they want to experiment and explore |
| 04:55.14 | ZorbaTHut | and the game design really strongly does not suit that |
| 04:55.26 | ZorbaTHut | talent behavior is nonobvious and ridiculously important |
| 04:55.29 | DWSR | I go back to the statement above. |
| 04:55.35 | DWSR | If you want to do it awesome. |
| 04:55.41 | DWSR | Don't fucking waste *my* time. |
| 04:56.09 | ZorbaTHut | What I'm saying is that it's unfortunate the game is designed in that manner, especially since it seems to go against the rest of the game's construction. |
| 04:56.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Riffage (~limi@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 04:59.07 | DWSR | I suppose I just don't really give a shit about the fact that it's not designed that way. |
| 04:59.18 | DWSR | I play to win, therefore, you should help me in that or go away. |
| 04:59.35 | DWSR | If you can aid me sufficiently to accomplish goal x, then awesome. |
| 04:59.42 | DWSR | If not, don't talk to me. |
| 04:59.53 | DWSR | Notice I don't say "help me to the best of your ability" |
| 05:00.15 | DWSR | I just want someone who can get the job done within reasonable limits. You don't absolutely have to be nuts on minmaxing. |
| 05:01.22 | DWSR | Like the difference between a good and bad healer to me is tank deaths. |
| 05:02.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Riffage- (~limi@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 05:07.57 | *** join/#wowuidev imbrandon (~bholtscla@ubuntu/member/imbrandon) |
| 05:12.20 | kdtresh | wow, i just play to have fun |
| 05:12.24 | kdtresh | guess i'm in the minority |
| 05:12.33 | Corrodias | some people have fun different ways |
| 05:12.57 | A-KO | I have fun by killing stuff |
| 05:17.13 | DWSR | What music do you listen to when you tank ZorbaTHut? |
| 05:17.18 | ZorbaTHut | I have fun by overcoming challenges |
| 05:17.23 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, I actually turn the game sound on |
| 05:17.32 | DWSR | Oh? |
| 05:17.35 | ZorbaTHut | audio cues + vent + music would be too much shit going on |
| 05:17.42 | ZorbaTHut | and the first two are actually important, so I don't put music on |
| 05:18.06 | DWSR | what audio cues? |
| 05:18.21 | A-KO | boss yells, dbm announcements |
| 05:18.29 | ZorbaTHut | Run away, little girl! |
| 05:18.35 | A-KO | and the trumpet sound |
| 05:18.36 | A-KO | lol |
| 05:18.38 | A-KO | or w/e it is |
| 05:18.39 | DWSR | Those go without game sound. |
| 05:18.40 | ZorbaTHut | (so yeah what a-ko said ;) ) |
| 05:18.56 | A-KO | DWSR: it's a lot easier using audible alerts when there's so much going on visually |
| 05:18.58 | ZorbaTHut | I turn the game sound on because I find it's helpful for the sake of knowing that I'm doing my rotation properly |
| 05:19.00 | A-KO | I use audible alerts religiously |
| 05:19.10 | A-KO | that's one less thing I visually need to pay attention t |
| 05:19.52 | A-KO | Deathwhisper's fight is easier when you hear the audible alerts. |
| 05:20.04 | A-KO | "You are weak, powerless to resist my will." <- mind control |
| 05:20.22 | DWSR | I have the TTS Boss Talk mod on |
| 05:21.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Matilda_ (~alexia@user-24-214-153-42.knology.net) |
| 05:24.15 | DWSR | So all of the DBM alerts get read to me. |
| 05:24.30 | DWSR | I find I get really in the zone with music,. |
| 05:24.37 | DWSR | Especially in high-stress situations. |
| 05:24.46 | A-KO | music distracts me mentally |
| 05:25.01 | A-KO | I use music as a means to distract me from my task (and thoughts)--so it's not good for me when I'm working or raiding :P |
| 05:30.38 | Shirik | ! |
| 05:30.38 | Shirik | Thunder_Child |
| 05:30.50 | Thunder_Child | Shirik |
| 05:30.52 | Shirik | canon has posted a price for the EF 70-200 f/2.8 IS II |
| 05:30.57 | Shirik | $2499 |
| 05:31.06 | Thunder_Child | ouch |
| 05:31.12 | Shirik | lower than I thought it would be |
| 05:31.35 | Thunder_Child | still expensive |
| 05:31.48 | Shirik | it's within my budget |
| 05:31.50 | Shirik | I can't wait |
| 05:31.55 | Shirik | one month left |
| 05:33.17 | Thunder_Child | http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/03/500x_robert-kaindl-1_01.jpg if you could make the light apear to be flowing out to the tips this would be phenominal |
| 05:33.58 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter_ (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 05:35.42 | Shirik | I am very disappointed |
| 05:35.52 | Shirik | I just tried taking a picture in my closet with the door closed at ISO 25600 |
| 05:35.55 | Shirik | but it was still black |
| 05:36.19 | Thunder_Child | >.< it amplifies light, not creates it |
| 05:36.36 | Shirik | lol |
| 05:36.47 | DWSR | ~failrik |
| 05:36.48 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 05:37.06 | Shirik | still I thought there would be enough light |
| 05:37.10 | Shirik | it's not like my closet is actually black |
| 05:37.51 | Thunder_Child | also it has to do with the processor as well, the digic III (?) ones are much better |
| 05:38.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Matilda__ (~alexia@user-24-214-136-218.knology.net) |
| 05:38.56 | Shirik | eh? |
| 05:39.02 | Shirik | Doesn't the 5D Mk II have a digic IV? |
| 05:39.08 | Shirik | or are you saying they've degraded |
| 05:39.23 | DWSR | You're degraded, Shirik. |
| 05:39.27 | Thunder_Child | see: (?) |
| 05:39.33 | Thunder_Child | i put that there for a reason |
| 05:39.48 | Thunder_Child | i didnt remember which version they are at |
| 05:39.58 | Thunder_Child | s/didnt/dont/ |
| 05:40.21 | Thunder_Child | tekkub: http://gizmodo.com/5486885/bacon-rockets-how-to-make-dead-pigs-fly |
| 05:41.35 | Shirik | woah |
| 05:41.44 | Shirik | I just found out my computer can lock the instant I go away from it |
| 05:42.00 | Shirik | it has this "autolock" feature where it recongizes my face, and as soon as it can't find my face anymore it locks |
| 05:42.09 | DWSR | Welcome to last year. |
| 05:42.12 | Shirik | HEY FU |
| 05:42.17 | Shirik | I don't know the features of my computer ok |
| 05:42.26 | DWSR | ~failrik |
| 05:42.26 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 05:42.36 | DWSR | ~botsnack |
| 05:42.36 | purl | :), DWSR |
| 05:43.14 | Thunder_Child | i'm surprised it doesnt lock when it sees your face |
| 05:43.22 | DWSR | ~Thunder_Child++ |
| 05:44.25 | Shirik | WOW |
| 05:44.28 | Shirik | oops |
| 05:44.30 | Shirik | caps |
| 05:44.31 | Shirik | but fu |
| 05:44.52 | Thunder_Child | you make it so easy |
| 05:49.25 | Arathros | hmm is there a variable to get the classcolors? |
| 05:49.35 | DWSR | yes |
| 05:49.39 | DWSR | Dunno what it is, but I know it is. |
| 05:50.00 | Arathros | in rbg 0-1 values? |
| 05:50.18 | Arathros | cause i can reduce the addonsize with 20mb ;P |
| 05:51.44 | DWSR | s20mb? |
| 05:51.45 | DWSR | 20mb* |
| 05:51.48 | DWSR | What the fuck are you writing? |
| 05:52.11 | DWSR | A whole webserver in WoW? |
| 05:52.14 | Arathros | well that was the background textures lol for each class |
| 05:53.38 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: What speed is "slow"? |
| 05:53.38 | Arathros | now i can just vertex color it depending on the class and class colors set by blizz. |
| 05:53.39 | DWSR | 1.6? |
| 05:54.01 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, >2.2 |
| 05:54.03 | ZorbaTHut | 1.6 is fast |
| 05:54.12 | DWSR | They make 1H that slow? |
| 05:54.23 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch06s01.html <-- here's a 2.6 :) |
| 05:54.41 | DWSR | lolfail. |
| 05:55.29 | ZorbaTHut | that's a lolwin, for you |
| 05:55.31 | ZorbaTHut | the slower, the better |
| 05:55.49 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: I was pointing out the lolfail in your link. |
| 05:55.55 | ZorbaTHut | oh pfft |
| 05:56.04 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37065 |
| 05:56.07 | ZorbaTHut | likewise, your mom |
| 05:56.14 | DWSR | lol |
| 05:56.37 | Thunder_Child | that faq must be old, audacity looks much better now |
| 05:56.47 | DWSR | I have http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37081 |
| 05:56.49 | ZorbaTHut | it's an old book, but it's a damn good read for coders |
| 05:57.03 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, that is an inappropriate weapon for a DK |
| 05:57.08 | DWSR | Yeah, thought so. |
| 05:57.18 | ZorbaTHut | all DK specs want slow. |
| 05:57.54 | Arathros | select(2, UnitClass("player")) <--- returns MAGE on a mage |
| 05:58.09 | Arathros | RAID_CLASS_COLORS.INSERTUNITCLASSHERE["r"] |
| 05:58.16 | Arathros | how would i get that in there |
| 05:58.46 | ZorbaTHut | with a group of my friends, the archetypical "oh god this group is doomed" tank is a death knight, dual-wielding Rimefang's Claw (1.7 speed) with a Blood spec. |
| 05:59.02 | Arathros | just RAID_CLASS_COLORS\. .. select(2, UnitClass("player")) ..["r"] |
| 05:59.05 | Arathros | like that |
| 05:59.35 | ZorbaTHut | arathros, RAID_CLASS_COLORS[select(2, UnitClass("player"))]["r"] |
| 05:59.48 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: lokl |
| 05:59.51 | ZorbaTHut | arathros, A.B is shorthand for A["B"] in all cases. |
| 06:00.08 | DWSR | I'm sticking with a 2H until I get decent tanking 1h. |
| 06:00.24 | DWSR | What meta should I pick up as a tank? |
| 06:00.37 | ZorbaTHut | I believe the one that gives armor% |
| 06:00.42 | ZorbaTHut | (I forget the name) |
| 06:00.59 | ZorbaTHut | this may not be entirely correct for DKs, however. |
| 06:01.15 | Arathros | aaah the bracets |
| 06:01.17 | Arathros | thanks |
| 06:02.01 | ZorbaTHut | eh, wowpopular likes that gem, so I guess it's right for DKs also |
| 06:02.17 | ZorbaTHut | oh btw get Tuskarr's Vitality on the feet |
| 06:02.28 | DWSR | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41380 |
| 06:02.29 | DWSR | ? |
| 06:02.41 | ZorbaTHut | yep, that'd be the one |
| 06:02.44 | DWSR | mkay. |
| 06:02.53 | ZorbaTHut | armor is like your best friend |
| 06:02.56 | DWSR | EJ's DK forums are awful for tanks. |
| 06:03.01 | DWSR | it's "like" my best friend? |
| 06:03.08 | ZorbaTHut | per itemization it is quite possibly the best stat you can possibly have |
| 06:03.21 | ZorbaTHut | well your real best friend gets you drunk |
| 06:03.26 | ZorbaTHut | armor saves you from getting ripped apart by demons |
| 06:03.31 | ZorbaTHut | six of one, half a dozen of the other |
| 06:03.44 | DWSR | ~ZorbaTHut++ |
| 06:05.11 | DWSR | Let's see what gems I can scrounge up. |
| 06:05.18 | DWSR | red is str, right? |
| 06:05.23 | DWSR | and blue is stam? |
| 06:05.30 | ZorbaTHut | you want stamina gems. |
| 06:05.41 | DWSR | need 2 red for the meta. |
| 06:05.49 | ZorbaTHut | I mean I'd love to claim that tanking gemming was a fascinating tradeoff but it's not |
| 06:05.52 | ZorbaTHut | you need one red for the meta |
| 06:06.06 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=49110 here I found you a red gem |
| 06:06.07 | DWSR | I should be using a Prismatic for the other? |
| 06:06.20 | ZorbaTHut | no, it's just that the meta says "2 blue, 1 red" |
| 06:06.20 | DWSR | Not a jewelcrafter. :P |
| 06:06.23 | ZorbaTHut | I think you're misreading it ;) |
| 06:06.28 | DWSR | Oh ,sorry. |
| 06:06.29 | DWSR | Yeah. |
| 06:06.36 | ZorbaTHut | don't need to be, the nightmare tear isn't a dragon eye |
| 06:06.46 | ZorbaTHut | it requires one to craft, but it's a normal gem usable by anyone |
| 06:06.50 | ZorbaTHut | (and quite good for tanks) |
| 06:07.54 | ZorbaTHut | that said, if you're having threat issues, expertise is generally the right choice, and that's just pure red |
| 06:08.12 | ZorbaTHut | in general you gem for three things ever - stamina, expertise, and defense if you really absolutely need it for the cap. |
| 06:08.37 | DWSR | defense is yellow? |
| 06:08.55 | ZorbaTHut | yeah |
| 06:09.19 | DWSR | mkay. |
| 06:09.20 | DWSR | Well. |
| 06:09.23 | DWSR | I'm about to hit 80. |
| 06:09.26 | DWSR | I need half a run for it. |
| 06:09.33 | DWSR | so I want to get some of the 80 gear that I have now socketed. |
| 06:09.42 | DWSR | So I can swap it and be like "ZOMG AWESOMZOR TANK" |
| 06:09.44 | ZorbaTHut | makes sense |
| 06:10.18 | ZorbaTHut | yeah jam a prismatic in whatever socket will give you the grooviest socket bonus, solids everywhere else |
| 06:10.30 | ZorbaTHut | the actual quality level depends on how much money you want to blow, it's probably not worth using epic gems yet |
| 06:11.09 | DWSR | well ATM I ahve a bunch of twilight opals. |
| 06:11.25 | DWSR | So I was thinking of cutting the expertise/stamina gem and shoving that in everywhere. |
| 06:11.29 | DWSR | (i.e. 4 or 5 sockets). |
| 06:11.38 | DWSR | Until I get all epix. |
| 06:12.02 | ZorbaTHut | it's not a terrible gem, you'll be leaning a bit further towards threat than you really need to |
| 06:12.19 | ZorbaTHut | you'd probably be better served with more stam than that, but it's not a huge difference and if this is vastly cheaper for you then go for it |
| 06:12.22 | DWSR | Yeah, socket bonuses that I'm getting are all +stam. |
| 06:12.46 | ZorbaTHut | the difference between +stam and anything else is so great that it's usually not worth going for the socket bonus even if it's +stam |
| 06:13.14 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: All the sockets are red. :P |
| 06:13.33 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, it's probably still technically better to jam solid gems in those ;) |
| 06:13.42 | DWSR | yeah, but hey. |
| 06:13.45 | DWSR | I'm a jew. |
| 06:13.52 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I mean, worry about that when you're raiding |
| 06:13.56 | DWSR | Yep. |
| 06:13.59 | ZorbaTHut | for now, doesn't matter so much. |
| 06:15.50 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 06:16.41 | DWSR | I'm thinking that I'll also pick up my Sigil as my first piece of Triumph. |
| 06:18.16 | Thunder_Child | http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/03/500x_chromecar.jpg that is a very shiny car |
| 06:18.56 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Do you think I should use http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight#eSQ9ScQlOGjfoH,Ywae3-,11159 except swap Mark of Blood for Virulence? |
| 06:19.28 | DWSR | s/Mark/Scent/ |
| 06:19.49 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, I strongly doubt it |
| 06:20.15 | ZorbaTHut | Scent of Blood is a pretty direct tanking talent, Virulence is a mediocre DPS talent with a chunk of PvP thrown in |
| 06:20.40 | ZorbaTHut | I don't know the DK mechanics well enough to give a real mathematical explanation, but my gut is telling me that scent of blood is a better idea |
| 06:20.57 | DWSR | I'm just thinking for hit. |
| 06:21.00 | DWSR | If I don't hit, I don't do shit. |
| 06:21.05 | ZorbaTHut | it's only hit for spells though |
| 06:21.47 | ZorbaTHut | I also don't know if 2h Frost really works right now |
| 06:21.58 | ZorbaTHut | most of my friends seem to divide things into 2h Blood or DW Frost |
| 06:22.05 | Shirik | heh, only Voyager can have a set of lines like "You will be assimilated" "No time for that, thanks, maybe later" |
| 06:22.48 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Been looking. |
| 06:22.49 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: And you can. |
| 06:23.14 | DWSR | You take a different talent set for it. |
| 06:23.58 | DWSR | (i.e., you don't take DW spec, or Threat of Thassarian |
| 06:25.02 | Shirik | I love Microsoft's install programs |
| 06:25.10 | ZorbaTHut | for reference, the two tanking specs I'm seeing listed as suggested are http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight#xZgDnq4QVbvs81,UdY3Oe,10192 http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight#eSQq6J2f6q4kjK,arY,10623 |
| 06:25.10 | Shirik | "Configuring IIS. This may take a while..." |
| 06:25.16 | Shirik | No mention of the fact that I don't use IIS at all |
| 06:25.19 | DWSR | May take forever <- fixd. |
| 06:25.22 | Shirik | but it feels it must configure it anyway |
| 06:25.37 | ZorbaTHut | note that they both include Epidemic, which I agree is a goddamn awesome talent |
| 06:25.47 | DWSR | http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight#eSQ9ScQlOGjfoH,Ywae3-,11159 |
| 06:26.46 | Shirik | !ping |
| 06:26.46 | batbot | Shirik: pong! |
| 06:26.46 | EDI | pong |
| 06:28.01 | Thunder_Child | Shirik: get a new trigger for DEI already |
| 06:28.08 | Thunder_Child | also, get me a phantom camera |
| 06:28.22 | Thunder_Child | EDI* |
| 06:30.03 | Shirik | ok can someone explain this to me please? |
| 06:30.39 | DWSR | ? |
| 06:31.15 | Shirik | http://images.gammatester.com/pics/b959a23a1fc5606ae11a6d4b383ad46c.png |
| 06:31.26 | Shirik | How the hell am I at load average 8.7 with 3 cores at 0% |
| 06:31.41 | DWSR | disk i/o? |
| 06:32.08 | Shirik | is there a good way to check disk i/o? |
| 06:32.12 | Thunder_Child | because avg is not this second |
| 06:33.27 | Shirik | it's only going up |
| 06:34.14 | DWSR | Shirik: You're definitely having I/O issues, |
| 06:34.55 | Shirik | wow this graph is strange |
| 06:35.00 | Shirik | I just looked at my disk IO graph |
| 06:35.16 | Shirik | there's spikes extremely regularly every 2 hours on the hour |
| 06:35.55 | Shirik | any bright ideas? |
| 06:35.58 | sylvanaar | os? |
| 06:36.46 | sylvanaar | what os? |
| 06:37.19 | Shirik | gentoo linux |
| 06:39.06 | sylvanaar | chron job |
| 06:39.36 | DWSR | Ding 80 |
| 06:40.32 | Thunder_Child | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8551316.stm |
| 06:40.33 | Shirik | I found a heavy cron job but it should only be running once a day |
| 06:40.36 | Shirik | 0 4 * * 1 /home/rsyncd/update.sh |
| 06:40.41 | frontendloader | my system monitor takes up 20% of my CPU when I open it :( |
| 06:40.52 | Shirik | the others are also daily, but they take a half a second to run |
| 06:41.02 | Shirik | nothing that's every 2 hours |
| 06:42.18 | sylvanaar | get your syslog from that time and look in it |
| 06:43.44 | Thunder_Child | Shirik: http://gizmodo.com/5485401/greatest-swag-in-the-history-of-swagginess-the-canon-lens-thermos |
| 06:43.57 | sylvanaar | man the jetbrains guys use git for scc, and thier repo is too big for hg-git to handle |
| 06:44.02 | Shirik | omfg |
| 06:44.04 | Shirik | I have to get that |
| 06:44.10 | Shirik | that is bad ass |
| 06:44.25 | Olison | haha :D |
| 06:44.46 | Shirik | ebay don't fail me now |
| 06:45.20 | DWSR | sylvanaar: Pft, Bazaar. |
| 06:45.44 | Shirik | bzr ftw |
| 06:46.15 | sylvanaar | i wont use it until theres a tortoisebzr that works |
| 06:47.08 | Shirik | it seems to work, but seriously tortoise tools are overrated |
| 06:47.33 | Thunder_Child | you cant overrate awesome |
| 06:48.45 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 06:48.49 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Holy shit. |
| 06:48.50 | sylvanaar | wow im dumb |
| 06:48.57 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: It's like I was playing a different char when I hit 80 |
| 06:49.07 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Threw on the socketed gear and poof. Healer stopped having issues. |
| 06:49.10 | ZorbaTHut | hah |
| 06:49.11 | sylvanaar | there is git already in intellij, why am i not using that |
| 06:49.47 | sylvanaar | oh - msys git - nvm - now i remember |
| 06:50.20 | DWSR | sylvanaar: Use TortoiseGit. |
| 06:50.34 | sylvanaar | does it install in one step yet? |
| 06:50.43 | DWSR | yes, you need msysgit installed underneath though |
| 06:50.57 | DWSR | So, install msysgit (NNNNNF), install TortoiseGit (NNNNNF) |
| 06:50.58 | DWSR | Win |
| 06:51.09 | sylvanaar | msys git has never worked for me with toroisegit |
| 06:51.47 | DWSR | What version of Windows? |
| 06:54.26 | sylvanaar | maybe their repo is just bad |
| 06:54.29 | Shirik | brilliant |
| 06:54.32 | Shirik | I love my ISP |
| 06:54.32 | sylvanaar | git://git.jetbrains.org/idea/community.git |
| 06:54.34 | Shirik | DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 65.32.5.111 |
| 06:54.34 | Shirik | 65.32.5.112 |
| 06:55.32 | sylvanaar | use google's |
| 06:55.44 | sylvanaar | they have the coolest ip's |
| 06:56.00 | sylvanaar | or one of the coolest ones |
| 06:56.39 | DWSR | sylvanaar: TortoiseGit + msysgit is cloning that repo just fine here.\ |
| 06:56.43 | Shirik | no they don't |
| 06:56.46 | Shirik | the official coolest IP: |
| 06:56.48 | Shirik | ~dns 69.69.69.69 |
| 06:56.53 | Shirik | ... |
| 06:56.56 | Shirik | no it's not |
| 06:56.58 | Shirik | you fail |
| 06:57.03 | sylvanaar | ~dns 8.8.8.8 |
| 06:57.18 | Shirik | ~dns the-coolest-ip-on-the-net.com |
| 06:57.22 | Shirik | sigh |
| 06:57.23 | sylvanaar | ~dns 2.2.2.2 |
| 06:57.31 | DWSR | sylvanaar: TortoiseGit + msysgit is clone'ing at 1210 KB/s. |
| 06:57.34 | sylvanaar | ~dns 4.4.4.4 |
| 06:57.35 | Matilda__ | I have the account information from Embarq written down some where for 69. <.<;; |
| 06:57.36 | DWSR | ~dns 1.2.3.4 |
| 06:57.54 | DWSR | sylvanaar: You want me to zip this and send it to you? |
| 06:58.00 | sylvanaar | yes please |
| 06:58.12 | DWSR | lol alright |
| 06:58.14 | sylvanaar | i ran git on another pc and still couldnt get it |
| 06:58.21 | DWSR | You need less fail PCs. |
| 06:58.53 | sylvanaar | where are you located? |
| 06:59.01 | sylvanaar | i think they are in russia |
| 06:59.16 | DWSR | Canada. |
| 06:59.18 | Shirik | I guess they got rid of it |
| 06:59.19 | Shirik | oh well |
| 06:59.24 | *** join/#wowuidev airtonix (~airtonix@unaffiliated/airtonix) |
| 06:59.27 | Shirik | 69.69.69.69 used to be the-coolest-ip-on-the-net.com |
| 06:59.55 | sylvanaar | ~dns 7.7.7.7 |
| 07:00.02 | sylvanaar | do they start at 8? |
| 07:00.07 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 07:00.13 | sylvanaar | ~dns 5.1.2.3 |
| 07:00.28 | Arrowmaster | nothing says those ips have to have rdns |
| 07:00.37 | Arrowmaster | if they are even in use |
| 07:00.40 | frontendloader | !dns 4.2.2.1 |
| 07:00.43 | frontendloader | ~dns 4.2.2.1 |
| 07:00.52 | frontendloader | which is a dns server itself afaik |
| 07:01.01 | Arrowmaster | 4.2.2.1-6 is verizon dns |
| 07:01.15 | sylvanaar | ah |
| 07:01.32 | frontendloader | kept that one handy for whenever my ISP's DNS servers went down |
| 07:01.46 | Arrowmaster | those, like googles, are done using anycast |
| 07:02.07 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah|away (~Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 07:03.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (~Srosh@c222221.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 07:04.21 | sylvanaar | vs who having unicast? my isp? |
| 07:05.21 | *** join/#wowuidev stupiddigmouse_ (~chatzilla@111.193.197.11) |
| 07:05.26 | sylvanaar | doesnt know why using anycast is important |
| 07:05.55 | Shirik | for distributed services |
| 07:06.06 | Shirik | think clouds |
| 07:07.23 | Arrowmaster | has nothing to do with clouds |
| 07:07.39 | Arrowmaster | but think of it as an IP based load balancing |
| 07:07.56 | DWSR | sylvanaar: This repository's fucking huge. |
| 07:08.05 | DWSR | sylvanaar: How exactly am I supposed to send you a 1GB repository? |
| 07:08.08 | sylvanaar | hahaha |
| 07:08.14 | sylvanaar | i dont know |
| 07:08.16 | DWSR | well, ~600mb |
| 07:08.27 | Arrowmaster | maybe thats why it doesnt work for sylvanaar |
| 07:08.30 | Arrowmaster | its too big |
| 07:08.35 | sylvanaar | um - i have lots of cloud storage |
| 07:08.59 | Arrowmaster | maybe thats why it doesnt work in msysgit for you i mean |
| 07:09.33 | sylvanaar | yeah |
| 07:10.11 | sylvanaar | what the fuck are they thinking geez |
| 07:11.05 | Arathros | hmm got a event question that doesnt seem to add up |
| 07:11.12 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: Sure it can |
| 07:11.15 | Shirik | It doesn't HAVE to |
| 07:11.17 | Shirik | but it can |
| 07:11.19 | sylvanaar | actually, i dont have any storage that will take a file that big |
| 07:11.31 | Shirik | but I didn't say "it's about clouds" I said "think clouds" |
| 07:11.53 | sylvanaar | i was just asking why he mentioned that the dns used anycast |
| 07:11.54 | Arathros | on the event spam with UNIT_COMBAT in my chatframe says that the damage schools are 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 |
| 07:12.04 | Arathros | but the book says its 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 |
| 07:12.19 | sylvanaar | 2^n |
| 07:12.36 | Arathros | i know but isnt 0^2 0 |
| 07:12.46 | sylvanaar | 2^n+1 |
| 07:12.46 | Arrowmaster | book is probably referring to the names of the globals that reference them or something |
| 07:13.00 | Arathros | damagetype = 0 physical |
| 07:13.02 | Arathros | and so forth |
| 07:13.06 | sylvanaar | actually 2^0 is 1 |
| 07:13.19 | sylvanaar | or 0 |
| 07:13.35 | sylvanaar | wow |
| 07:13.43 | Arathros | anything timed with itself 0 times or times with 0 = 0 in my head ;P |
| 07:14.18 | sylvanaar | lua> print(2^0) |
| 07:14.20 | lua_bot | sylvanaar: 1 |
| 07:14.22 | Shirik | error: lvalue required on left side of operator '=' |
| 07:15.04 | Arathros | 0^2 = 0 |
| 07:15.10 | Arathros | 2^0 = 1 |
| 07:15.15 | Arathros | for some reason lol |
| 07:15.26 | sylvanaar | anything ^- =1 |
| 07:15.31 | Shirik | because it makes a million things work |
| 07:15.33 | sylvanaar | anything ^0 =1 |
| 07:15.51 | Shirik | But if you really want to know why, you can use calculus to solve it for you |
| 07:15.54 | DWSR | sylvanaar: Anything ^0 is 1. |
| 07:15.57 | Arathros | hehe |
| 07:16.01 | Shirik | lim x->0 (n^x) == 1 |
| 07:16.45 | Shirik | xlnn == lnc, 0 == lnc / lnn |
| 07:16.51 | Shirik | the only value of c which works for this is 1 |
| 07:17.14 | sylvanaar | so does -inf = +inf? |
| 07:17.20 | sylvanaar | ive always wondered |
| 07:17.24 | Shirik | no? |
| 07:17.40 | Shirik | they're literally at the exact opposite ends of the number line :P |
| 07:18.20 | Arathros | the book is healy on do it in XML ;P |
| 07:19.19 | sylvanaar | what about -1/inf and 1/inf |
| 07:20.01 | sylvanaar | perhaps that was what i was thinking about |
| 07:21.46 | Arathros | so in your opinion.. keep all in lua or go crazyin xml also when modding? |
| 07:22.02 | sylvanaar | whatever you like better |
| 07:24.38 | DWSR | Arathros: Keep it all in Lua. |
| 07:24.48 | DWSR | Arathros: You'll find it's more flexible. |
| 07:36.09 | DWSR | And now, in honor of my hitting 80 |
| 07:36.13 | DWSR | TIME to redo my UI! |
| 07:36.15 | DWSR | AGAIN! |
| 07:37.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (~gryphon@c-71-227-239-71.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 07:41.05 | Shirik | Thunder_Child |
| 07:41.12 | Shirik | did you say this is the error you found a while ago? The permissions granted to user 'ECOCAR-BUILDSVR\mpdelbuono' are insufficient for performing this operation. (rsAccessDenied) Get Online Help |
| 07:41.18 | Shirik | wtb the link you had |
| 07:41.30 | Arathros | DWSR i expect that .. but getting used to seeing all this xml and coverting it to lua is gonna take some time |
| 07:41.41 | DWSR | true |
| 07:42.26 | Arathros | and according to the book.. this code should work. but no width and height are set lol |
| 07:43.52 | Thunder_Child | Shirik: http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/tfsreporting/thread/8c27bfbe-4daf-42e3-b406-686ed03b9bcb |
| 07:51.53 | Arathros | gotta ask stupid |
| 07:52.03 | Arathros | it only shows in xml the book |
| 07:52.18 | Arathros | how do i make a Fontstring in lua to an frame |
| 07:53.42 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 07:58.51 | Shirik | omfg I think I finally got it |
| 07:58.56 | Shirik | TFS is a hell of a lot more painful than I thought it was |
| 07:59.31 | Shirik | ok maybe not |
| 07:59.33 | Shirik | TF30170: The plugin Microsoft.ProjectCreationWizard.Groups failed during task GroupCreation1 from group Groups. |
| 07:59.34 | Shirik | ...... |
| 08:02.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:08.10 | Shirik | ok I give up on TFS for tonight |
| 08:08.13 | Shirik | this shit is way too complicated |
| 08:08.44 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@c-174-52-173-217.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 08:10.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:21.10 | Arathros | tfs? |
| 08:21.28 | DWSR | Team Foundation Services. |
| 08:21.33 | Arathros | ok |
| 08:39.18 | Shirik | ... |
| 08:39.19 | Shirik | CRITICAL - load average: 21.79, 21.13, 18.19 |
| 08:39.31 | Shirik | I really wish I understood this problem |
| 08:39.34 | Arrowmaster | what the fuck did you do |
| 08:39.39 | Shirik | Nothing! |
| 08:39.44 | zenzelezz | EDI has become self-aware and it IN UR SHELL USING ALL UR RESOURCES |
| 08:39.48 | Arrowmaster | your at 21.79 load average! |
| 08:39.51 | zenzelezz | *is |
| 08:39.51 | Shirik | CPU usage is nearly 0 |
| 08:39.56 | Arrowmaster | thats not nothing |
| 08:40.22 | Arrowmaster | where are you seeing the load average from? |
| 08:40.31 | Shirik | nagios is reporting it |
| 08:40.35 | Arathros | its a bit annoying they use xml for everything |
| 08:40.43 | Arrowmaster | check the uptime command in your shell |
| 08:40.44 | Shirik | but that just comes from the standard unix load average utility |
| 08:40.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Petercheese (~shuvthisu@pool-71-115-220-217.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 08:42.14 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-32-134-121.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 08:43.00 | Shirik | I can't even get ssh to ask me for my username :P |
| 08:49.14 | zenzelezz | http://punditkitchen.com/2010/03/05/political-pictures-k1a1-tank-youre-welcome/ |
| 08:52.15 | Shirik | lol |
| 08:52.17 | Shirik | Arrowmaster |
| 08:52.19 | Shirik | it's getting worse |
| 08:52.36 | Shirik | 03:50:22 up 54 days, 7:19, 3 users, load average: 43.90, 49.70, 40.29 |
| 08:53.00 | Arrowmaster | but you are sure the cpu usage is at 0? |
| 08:53.05 | Shirik | yes |
| 08:53.13 | Arrowmaster | how are you checking? |
| 08:53.17 | Shirik | top/htop |
| 08:53.31 | Arrowmaster | in htop make sure kernel threads arent being hidden |
| 08:54.06 | Shirik | how do I do that? |
| 08:54.28 | Shirik | but um, my IO usage is off the charts |
| 08:54.42 | Shirik | disk IO |
| 08:55.35 | Arrowmaster | try `ps aux` and checking the cpu column |
| 08:57.14 | Shirik | running.................. |
| 08:57.15 | Shirik | lol |
| 08:57.21 | Shirik | the fact that this is taking measurable time is a problem |
| 08:59.53 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: Every single line on `ps aux` says 0.0 CPU % |
| 09:00.16 | frontendloader | isn't there a way to see all open file handles |
| 09:00.28 | Arrowmaster | lsof |
| 09:00.43 | Arrowmaster | and damn thats spammy on my desktop |
| 09:01.14 | Shirik | I doubt there's many open file handles |
| 09:01.22 | Shirik | I don't really do much disk writing, I think it's swap usage |
| 09:01.28 | Shirik | swap thrashing |
| 09:02.35 | frontendloader | yeah lsof, though that showed i/o per second as well |
| 09:03.49 | Arrowmaster | im probably jumping to conclusions but if the load average is that high but you cant see anything using cpu time then i would be concerned a rootkit might be the cause |
| 09:04.21 | frontendloader | someone hacked your juice to run seti at home |
| 09:04.21 | frontendloader | clearly |
| 09:04.38 | Shirik | I won't discount it because I haven't the slightest clue what's going on, however I don't see anything running unexpectedly, and I don't even control the kernel |
| 09:04.45 | Arrowmaster | whats the memory usage since you mentioned swap thrashing? |
| 09:04.54 | Shirik | oh it's high, it's always been high |
| 09:05.01 | Arrowmaster | how high? |
| 09:05.06 | Shirik | more than I have memory :P |
| 09:05.18 | Arrowmaster | so it is swaping? |
| 09:05.20 | Shirik | when I get some kind of response from the thing I'll give you a real answer |
| 09:05.21 | Shirik | yes |
| 09:05.26 | Shirik | fuck Java |
| 09:05.29 | Arrowmaster | you should do something about that |
| 09:05.33 | Arrowmaster | like stop using java |
| 09:05.33 | Shirik | I can't |
| 09:05.38 | Shirik | blame Atlassian |
| 09:06.06 | Arrowmaster | are you using x64 or i386 |
| 09:06.18 | Shirik | it's a 32-bit processor |
| 09:06.28 | Arrowmaster | i thought you had a linode |
| 09:06.33 | Arrowmaster | or is this something else |
| 09:06.41 | Shirik | it is a linode |
| 09:06.51 | Arrowmaster | linodes arent 32bit |
| 09:06.57 | Shirik | really? |
| 09:06.59 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 09:07.02 | Shirik | huh |
| 09:07.06 | Shirik | well I'm running 32-bit Linux |
| 09:07.11 | Arrowmaster | you are sure? |
| 09:07.26 | Shirik | almost positive |
| 09:07.33 | Arrowmaster | uname -a |
| 09:07.36 | Shirik | again, when I finally get a response I'll give you a definitive answer |
| 09:07.37 | Shirik | I can't! |
| 09:07.42 | Arrowmaster | when you can |
| 09:13.14 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: Linux heresiarchguild.com 2.6.32-linode23 #1 SMP Sat Dec 5 16:04:55 UTC 2009 i686 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU L5420 @ 2.50GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux |
| 09:14.12 | Arrowmaster | ok so you are running 32bit kernel, which is good since it means you can squeeze a little bit more out of the limited memory you have |
| 09:14.40 | Shirik | I really should just start offloading the Java processes to my build server I think |
| 09:15.15 | Arrowmaster | but seriously why do you 'have' to use whatever it is of atlassian's shitty java apps that you are using |
| 09:15.15 | Shirik | let's see what happens when I kill JIRA |
| 09:15.23 | Shirik | because they're sponsoring us :P |
| 09:15.54 | Arrowmaster | get them to sponsor you a larger linode since their shitty software wont run on yours |
| 09:15.58 | Shirik | heh |
| 09:16.05 | Shirik | I have a second internal server |
| 09:16.09 | Shirik | I'll just move it there |
| 09:16.16 | Shirik | it has much better disk IO rates |
| 09:16.19 | Shirik | linode sucks at disk IO |
| 09:16.23 | Arrowmaster | which java are you using btw |
| 09:16.28 | Shirik | 1.5 I think |
| 09:16.35 | Arrowmaster | sun's java? |
| 09:16.39 | Shirik | yes |
| 09:17.32 | Arrowmaster | have you tried openjdk? |
| 09:17.59 | Shirik | I have not |
| 09:19.44 | DWSR | Is there any way to move the frame(s) for prompts like "Would you like to release?" down? |
| 09:33.54 | Shirik | lol |
| 09:33.58 | Shirik | I tried to shut down java services |
| 09:34.04 | Shirik | that only made things even worse: CRITICAL - load average: 82.04, 70.90, 64.34 |
| 09:34.12 | Shirik | I don't even know how that's possible. I only have 120 processes |
| 09:34.17 | Shirik | and I have 4 cores |
| 09:35.42 | Arrowmaster | htop actually shows 4 cores? |
| 09:35.42 | Shirik | yup |
| 09:35.42 | Shirik | and I've seen them all used at once before |
| 09:35.50 | Shirik | honestly at this point if I were in an emergency situation I would have just restarted the server by now |
| 09:35.56 | Shirik | but nobody will be accessing it at this time |
| 09:37.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (~Sixen@173-25-23-10.client.mchsi.com) |
| 09:39.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Lothaer (~jamiecook@115-166-41-102.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 09:39.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lothaer] by ChanServ |
| 09:39.28 | Lothaer | hey guys |
| 09:39.30 | Lothaer | and gals |
| 09:39.50 | Corrodias | welcome |
| 09:48.43 | Shirik | the fact that `kill -9` is taking forever |
| 09:48.45 | Shirik | is a problem |
| 09:50.59 | Corrodias | -9 is very elusive |
| 09:51.22 | Corrodias | you had best invest in some shark-mounted lasers. he will eventually make his way to your base. |
| 09:54.25 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (~cncfanati@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 09:58.45 | Shirik | AHA! |
| 09:58.47 | Shirik | I know what happened |
| 09:58.54 | Shirik | Arrowmaster, I hit a mysql bug |
| 09:58.59 | Shirik | I heard about this a long time ago |
| 09:59.12 | Arrowmaster | so dont use mysql |
| 09:59.21 | Shirik | it's extremely rare |
| 10:00.22 | Shirik | I heard about it a few months ago when Wikipedia hit it. Everything went to hell |
| 10:00.36 | Shirik | mysql just eats up every apache process it can find until you have like 5 billion apache threads running |
| 10:01.28 | nevcairiel | how do mysql and apache interact...? |
| 10:01.28 | nevcairiel | mine don't |
| 10:01.42 | *** join/#wowuidev dolby (~dolby@MMOI/Administrator/pdpc.silver.dolby) |
| 10:01.42 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o dolby] by ChanServ |
| 10:02.21 | Shirik | nevcairiel: well apache's running mod_php |
| 10:02.27 | Shirik | and mod_php makes a call into mysql |
| 10:02.31 | nevcairiel | your own fault |
| 10:02.34 | Shirik | and mysql starts chillaxing |
| 10:02.36 | nevcairiel | mod_php is awful |
| 10:02.49 | Shirik | and then someone requests another page |
| 10:02.49 | Shirik | and mod_php makes a call into mysql |
| 10:02.55 | Shirik | and mysql1 goes "oh look friends!" |
| 10:03.00 | Shirik | and then someone requests another page |
| 10:03.03 | Shirik | etc etc |
| 10:03.10 | Shirik | until you have five billion requests outstanding P |
| 10:04.54 | Shirik | yay finally got everything shut down |
| 10:05.03 | Shirik | it's crazy that with nothing running I only use 100MB of memory |
| 10:05.10 | Shirik | and when everything's running it's like 1500... |
| 10:06.44 | cncfanatics | nevcairiel: You got that wrong |
| 10:06.48 | cncfanatics | s/mod_// |
| 10:07.21 | Shirik | heresiarchguild mysql # /etc/init.d/apache2 start |
| 10:07.21 | Shirik | * Starting mysql ... |
| 10:07.24 | Shirik | .......... what? |
| 10:10.14 | nevcairiel | cncfanatics: that too, but if you *have* to run it, use mpm_worker and fastcgi |
| 10:10.48 | nevcairiel | its faster, has a lower memory footprint, and you have better control about its resource usage |
| 10:10.58 | Shirik | but that requires WORK |
| 10:11.14 | Shirik | instead of just emerge php |
| 10:11.26 | nevcairiel | fixing your server because its unreachable due to exhausted memory is no work? ;) |
| 10:11.35 | cncfanatics | emerge mpm-worker fastcgi php WORK |
| 10:11.51 | cncfanatics | With proper useflags ofc |
| 10:15.29 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 10:17.19 | Arrowmaster | better solution, dont use php mysql or java |
| 10:18.31 | Fisker | smashes Arrowmaster |
| 10:19.38 | Shirik | I don't understand all the mysql-hate |
| 10:19.50 | Arrowmaster | its crap? |
| 10:20.01 | Arrowmaster | why do you think wowace had to ditch it |
| 10:20.11 | Shirik | because developers failed to use EXPLAIN properly |
| 10:20.24 | Shirik | Wikipedia is using mysql |
| 10:20.29 | Shirik | I doubt wowace has more traffic than them |
| 10:21.11 | Arrowmaster | does wikipedia have more than one server, and does it hide static pages behind a caching proxy server? |
| 10:21.22 | Shirik | sounds like a personal problem |
| 10:21.30 | Fisker | MySQL sucks because if you look closely you could confuse it with MySpace |
| 10:22.00 | haste | Fisker: fail, you could have said MSSQL! |
| 10:22.11 | Arrowmaster | seriously just switching from mysql to postgresql caused wowace to go from having a db server that brought down the entire website to working perfectly |
| 10:22.17 | Fisker | MSSQL is awesome |
| 10:22.19 | frontendloader | Throwing hardware at it is ALWAYS a viable solution |
| 10:22.24 | frontendloader | just look at Eve ^.^ |
| 10:22.34 | Shirik | I still blame lack of appropriate optimizations |
| 10:22.38 | Shirik | MySQL is very picky about that |
| 10:23.03 | Arrowmaster | maybe thats part of why it sucks |
| 10:23.14 | Fisker | Anyone have an overview about the new fishing stuff? |
| 10:23.18 | Shirik | maybe learning the tool that's being used would be more appropriate |
| 10:23.31 | Shirik | I am very concerned at how many people use MySQL and don't know how to use EXPLAIN |
| 10:23.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (~caleb@dsl4E5C033D.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 10:23.48 | Arrowmaster | i dont mess with db stuff but i know enough people in the business that have experience and would always pick postgresql over mysql |
| 10:23.53 | amro | most come from a php background, what do you expect? |
| 10:25.26 | Shirik | anyway, load averages back to normal, yay |
| 10:25.57 | Shirik | two java services are still down but I'll just leave them down for now, nobody cares about them anyway |
| 10:26.46 | Shirik | I go to sleep now |
| 10:28.14 | amro | mod_php will eat your home directory while you sleep |
| 10:28.38 | haste | <amro>s/mod_// |
| 10:28.39 | haste | ! |
| 10:28.57 | amro | php alone would, but it doesn't have teeth |
| 10:29.10 | amro | it would just drool all over it |
| 10:30.54 | Fisker | hey haste |
| 10:30.56 | Fisker | you cannot stop me |
| 10:31.56 | amro | but I can |
| 10:32.00 | amro | stops Fisker |
| 10:32.28 | Fisker | nope |
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| 11:28.53 | Arathros | hmm anyone got experience with making a router server. |
| 11:29.02 | Arathros | thats really controlleable from a gui |
| 11:30.36 | Fisker | your mother is a router server |
| 11:30.39 | Fisker | controllable from a gui |
| 11:33.21 | Arathros | lol |
| 11:33.38 | Arathros | naa tired of this dorm internet beeing raped like a little child so we cant even browse |
| 11:35.52 | Fisker | vpn go |
| 11:39.58 | Arathros | hmm |
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| 11:46.22 | olafski | hah HoR is the new oculus |
| 11:46.30 | Arathros | lol |
| 11:46.42 | Arathros | oculus is way to easy and a lovely please |
| 11:46.45 | olafski | just got into HoR, 3 people left |
| 11:46.56 | olafski | 2 of which were my gf and myself =) |
| 11:47.23 | Arathros | lol |
| 11:47.40 | Arathros | well i dont get it |
| 11:48.00 | Arathros | occulus is dam easy and fast now |
| 11:48.03 | olafski | I hates it.. wish I had never completed the quest to be "attuned" for it |
| 11:48.05 | olafski | yes |
| 11:48.08 | olafski | I'm talking about HoR |
| 11:48.10 | olafski | HoR <-- you see? |
| 11:48.52 | Arathros | hehe |
| 11:49.17 | Arathros | hmm |
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| 11:55.21 | Arathros | but i dont see what the fuss is about occulus.. you get 8 badges + gems |
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| 12:02.05 | olafski | yes, oculus is fine |
| 12:02.19 | olafski | they finally managed to nerf it and boost the gains from it enough so that people want to do it |
| 12:02.30 | olafski | anything if not to admit that the instance just sucks |
| 12:02.55 | foxlit | Meh, oculus was fun, even prior to the nerfs |
| 12:03.09 | amro | the instance doesn't suck |
| 12:03.20 | amro | the mobs having the aggro range of a deranged ex do |
| 12:03.28 | olafski | not that bad anymore imo |
| 12:03.32 | amro | still bad |
| 12:03.38 | olafski | can do it pretty much without aggroing any of the big drakes |
| 12:03.39 | amro | you have to constantly watch if you have aggro |
| 12:03.41 | olafski | of course some idiot always flies wrong |
| 12:03.46 | Arathros | only prob was the beginning mobs that werent really tankable |
| 12:03.49 | amro | idiot? why idiot? |
| 12:03.57 | amro | wow has horrible flight controls |
| 12:04.04 | foxlit | ? |
| 12:04.04 | amro | and poor situational awareness |
| 12:04.05 | olafski | I don't get aggro but I have to look back to see if someone else pulled aggro :P |
| 12:04.10 | amro | you can't tell what's near you and what isn't |
| 12:04.16 | olafski | if I can, so can you |
| 12:04.28 | olafski | yeah that is annoying though arathros :) |
| 12:04.34 | amro | if you can use a crappy system, more power to you |
| 12:04.41 | amro | don't expect others to do the same |
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| 12:04.50 | olafski | so you agree that the dungeon sucks |
| 12:04.51 | olafski | great |
| 12:05.03 | olafski | I rejoice when I get oculus nowadays, but only because it's 8 emblems and gems/mount.. not because it's fun or anything |
| 12:05.03 | amro | that's not what I said |
| 12:05.32 | amro | in fact that's quite the opposite |
| 12:05.36 | olafski | so you're saying the mechanics suck but they should still not have pulled this dungeon from the game.. interesting opinion :P |
| 12:05.39 | Arathros | olafski and the speed you can do it |
| 12:05.40 | amro | I'm not sure how you pulled that out of me saying "the instance doesn't suck" |
| 12:05.51 | olafski | that too arathros :) if nobody messes up |
| 12:06.00 | amro | that's not what I said either |
| 12:06.04 | amro | stop putting words in my mouth |
| 12:06.07 | olafski | it's fine amro |
| 12:06.11 | amro | no it's not |
| 12:06.12 | olafski | keep talking :P |
| 12:06.32 | amro | don't attribute comments to me that I haven't made |
| 12:07.23 | olafski | you say the mobs have too big of an aggro range but really it seems like the problem is the situational awareness, not the aggro range per se.. anyhow, I don't have a problem with either of it so I don't care :) |
| 12:07.49 | amro | it's both |
| 12:08.00 | amro | I don't care what you think, I just don't want you attributing claims to me |
| 12:08.09 | olafski | foxlit: oculus was ok if you went with people who knew what to do.. I managed to do it with 4 people who never went there before a few days ago, I doubt that would've been possible without wiping back when it was first introduced :) |
| 12:08.18 | olafski | amro: have fun with that :) |
| 12:08.24 | amro | ... |
| 12:08.28 | amro | you're not making any sense |
| 12:10.35 | olafski | either way I think most people only do oculus nowadays because the rewards are good, not because it's fun.. but I guess that could be said about most heroics |
| 12:10.45 | olafski | off to do a heroic.. hope it's oculus =) |
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| 12:36.32 | foxlit | olafski: either way I think most people only do oculus nowadays because the rewards are good, not because it's fun << Personally, none of the heroics in the rotation are particularly "fun," and occ rewards are meh. |
| 12:36.47 | foxlit | Don't have much to do with the extra badges, and blue gems are hardly a motivator |
| 12:37.10 | olafski | every time I get into oculus I'm like "I feel it, this time I'll get the mount" :) |
| 12:37.12 | Arathros | well if you arent there for badges or gems. then why are you in HC's |
| 12:37.23 | foxlit | The daily two frost badges, duh :) |
| 12:37.26 | olafski | and given the amount of leveling I do, most chars I have still benefit from triumph badges |
| 12:37.42 | foxlit | [Though I haven't actually bothered with that for a while now] |
| 12:37.58 | olafski | it's the only source of frost emblems I have |
| 12:38.05 | olafski | so I tend to do it.. need a couple weeks more for a T10 chest ;p |
| 12:38.32 | foxlit | weekly raids? PUG ICC10? |
| 12:38.37 | olafski | I don't raid |
| 12:38.58 | olafski | pugging causes me more stress than it's worth in my opinion |
| 12:39.06 | olafski | I will pug the weekly raid if it's naxx though.. but that's it |
| 12:39.14 | olafski | maybe sarth too, dunno if that one is in the rotation |
| 12:39.21 | foxlit | Ulduar is pretty safe, too |
| 12:39.36 | olafski | it's XT for me this week.. but I just can't bring myself to find a pug for ulduar :/ |
| 12:39.38 | Arathros | havent been in ulduar yet ;P |
| 12:39.45 | foxlit | FL is cakewalk, and ignis/xt/razor are merely easy. |
| 12:39.53 | foxlit | [Then again, all of this depends on your gear] |
| 12:39.57 | olafski | yeah but someone manages to mess it up |
| 12:40.02 | olafski | guaranteed pretty much :P |
| 12:40.15 | olafski | a guildie of mine pugged xt, first attempt they accidentally triggered hard mode and wiped |
| 12:40.30 | foxlit | Blame the raid leader for not explaining the mechanic. |
| 12:40.32 | foxlit | :) |
| 12:40.37 | olafski | second attempt they accidentally pulled the trash in the corners (the trash that you should probably clear before you engage the boss) |
| 12:40.43 | foxlit | and/or shouting loudly enough to stop DPS |
| 12:40.53 | olafski | sure I can blame whomever I want, but that doesn't make it less stressful :P |
| 12:41.10 | olafski | with current gear XT 10man hardmode shouldn't be difficult though I imagine |
| 12:42.11 | olafski | I really play wow mostly as a singleplayer game.. the people in the LFD tool are just bots that act more random than normal bots =) |
| 12:43.09 | olafski | anywho.. off to buy dinner.. hate weekends, I have to think about what to buy for two days instead of one ;p |
| 12:43.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu (~Sesshu@ip-214-16.travedsl.de) |
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| 13:16.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Glenjamin (~ReadMe@93-96-22-79.zone4.bethere.co.uk) |
| 13:20.26 | Glenjamin | hi guys, does anyone know of a HUD addon which supports incoming heals on the target health bar? |
| 13:20.46 | Glenjamin | for some reason icehud will only do it on the player health bar |
| 13:20.54 | *** part/#wowuidev Riffage (~limi@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 13:23.04 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 13:24.23 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@60-234-165-167.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 13:24.34 | bluspacecow | \o |
| 13:33.55 | Fisker | https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/dacifobcnooehikjifpjadpegohopnda <-lol fail |
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| 13:52.47 | olafski | most unitframes support that glenjamin |
| 13:54.32 | haste | but most unit frames aren't a hud! |
| 13:57.33 | olafski | probably not :P |
| 14:01.56 | Fisker | olafski doesn't change anything even if you explain it to them |
| 14:02.06 | Fisker | We did weekly where we wiped 3 times due to that |
| 14:02.27 | Fisker | and it was clearly explained and even spammed in RW that they should stop |
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| 14:49.10 | Sesshu | why doesn't UI_ERROR_MESSAGE fire every time it should? -.- really annoying |
| 14:51.05 | Adys | Fisker: branding by the big fat force |
| 14:51.35 | Adys | Fisker: Soon enough to develop "an application that lets you browse our website by just typing urls in an address bar" |
| 14:51.54 | Fisker | :o |
| 14:52.50 | Adys | also god its ugly |
| 14:52.59 | Adys | dark grey on white |
| 14:53.02 | Adys | but meh |
| 14:53.35 | Adys | anyone uses subparversion? |
| 14:53.44 | Adys | or subversion, whatever you call it |
| 14:53.58 | Adys | how the *hell* do i revert a folder/file to its working tree state |
| 14:55.20 | Adys | wow |
| 14:55.22 | Adys | svn revert -R |
| 14:56.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Arathros (LebQzz@56341ed5.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 15:08.06 | olafski | fisker: indeed and that's why I don't raid, don't pug raids except if it's a weekly boss in naxx |
| 15:10.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Proditor (proditor@c80-217-71-230.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 15:23.25 | Arathros | can i change the vertex of a backdrop edgefile on minimap? |
| 15:25.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (~cide@c213-100-51-33.swipnet.se) |
| 15:25.31 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 15:27.38 | Fisker | i can change you Arathros |
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| 15:46.10 | Arathros | Fisker hehe |
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| 16:03.13 | Glenjamin | is there a bars addon that lets you set up pages based on specific bar numbers? |
| 16:04.04 | Glenjamin | i have quite short bars, and using bartender means i lose half the buttons |
| 16:04.42 | airtonix | bartender is for people who like alcohol. bongos is for people that like ... |
| 16:04.51 | Glenjamin | bongos is still around then? |
| 16:05.03 | airtonix | yes but its called something else now |
| 16:06.23 | airtonix | actually i forget what because its been 6months since i played the game |
| 16:06.50 | Glenjamin | ah, dominos |
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| 17:17.39 | Thrae | Hmm I was asked to code an addon like CLRet (Pally), but for Shamans. Basically a cooldown reminder. Is there some generic one, or one for Shamans? |
| 17:23.48 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut |
| 17:24.07 | DWSR | Thrae: Shock & Awe |
| 17:24.37 | Thrae | DWSR: Cool, lemme take a look. |
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| 17:33.55 | Adys | cide, nevcairiel, any of you two familiar with distutils? |
| 17:34.23 | Adys | i want to compile a single file _dxtc.c which contains just a couple of methods |
| 17:34.42 | Adys | and from what Im hearing, I have to choose between being a masochist and use gcc, or being a masochist and use distutils |
| 17:36.21 | Cide | no |
| 17:37.13 | nevcairiel | distutils can compile stuff? |
| 17:37.17 | Adys | yea |
| 17:39.08 | nevcairiel | whats the upstream recommendation? |
| 17:39.38 | Adys | well, distutils :P |
| 17:39.47 | nevcairiel | then use that, if its equallye vil |
| 17:40.01 | nevcairiel | s/e vil/ evil/ |
| 17:40.23 | Adys | it's more of unnecessarily complex |
| 17:40.31 | Adys | at least to compile a single file |
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| 17:55.26 | msoul | Greetings everyone |
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| 17:56.44 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
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| 18:02.03 | DWSR | Oh, it's you. ;) |
| 18:02.13 | msoul | :o |
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| 18:07.17 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~chatzilla@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 18:07.33 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (~foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 18:14.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyonin (~Zyonin@93-38-47-66.ip69.fastwebnet.it) |
| 18:14.29 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Zyonin] by ChanServ |
| 18:31.36 | msoul | when i started i said one char is more than enough... now i have plethora of chars |
| 18:32.06 | msoul | the last one i am leveling now "warrior" can't wait to hit lvl 74 as there is only one quest i enjoyed doing most |
| 18:32.32 | msoul | the one were you fight side by side with thrall and sylvanas to take undercitty back |
| 18:33.25 | A-KO | I think what's more epic right now is this Portal update they did |
| 18:33.57 | msoul | Hmmm? |
| 18:34.22 | Dagmar | They put a buncha hints into the game, possibly leading to a new game |
| 18:34.33 | Dagmar | SSTV broadcasts and stuff you can pick up with the radio |
| 18:34.36 | A-KO | yeah, but the way they executed is pretty epic |
| 18:36.00 | A-KO | the transmission files have images in them, one of which gave a phone # to a BBS |
| 18:36.56 | theorbtwo | You mean there was an update of Portal 1, and it's retconned in the connecting story with Portal 2? |
| 18:37.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (~Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 18:37.13 | A-KO | not really retconned I would say |
| 18:37.25 | A-KO | the update is very.......minor in terms of the internal game |
| 18:37.29 | theorbtwo | Interesting... |
| 18:37.36 | A-KO | the only thing internally to the game now is new radios that you can find |
| 18:37.37 | A-KO | and listen to |
| 18:37.50 | theorbtwo | Play something other then elevator music? |
| 18:38.01 | A-KO | when you take them to certain portions of each level they get staticy |
| 18:38.05 | A-KO | kind of like a "hot and cold" thing |
| 18:38.27 | A-KO | There's a point where you take each though and then they play some new static sound |
| 18:38.40 | A-KO | people have been opening the game files and ripping each audio out, and finding the SSTV images |
| 18:38.46 | Dagmar | Yeah basically there's a sweet spot in each room |
| 18:38.55 | Dagmar | Some have morse, some SSTV |
| 18:39.04 | A-KO | It's actually pretty epic |
| 18:39.06 | A-KO | I'm rather impressed |
| 18:39.30 | Dagmar | The SSTV you could just record on something and patch into an SSTV decoder |
| 18:39.47 | Dagmar | It's meant to go over shortwave and deal with a lot of interference |
| 18:40.04 | A-KO | they also found some basic programs, etc. |
| 18:40.08 | Dagmar | They've definitely gone to a lot of trouble to put "genuine" looking signals into the game |
| 18:40.10 | A-KO | that people have been running in dosbox |
| 18:40.20 | A-KO | yeah |
| 18:40.23 | theorbtwo | Sounds very cool. |
| 18:40.47 | Dagmar | ...although frankly, screw Portal 2. |
| 18:40.52 | A-KO | lol |
| 18:40.54 | Dagmar | Where's mah damn Episode III |
| 18:41.02 | A-KO | well, some people are hinting that this might be leading into Ep 3 |
| 18:41.08 | A-KO | rather than just Portal 2 |
| 18:41.19 | Dagmar | I would lurve me some more Gordon Freeman action |
| 18:41.37 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 18:41.40 | DWSR | A million times this. |
| 18:41.49 | theorbtwo | I want episode III, but damn if portal 2 isn't a pretty good consolation prize. |
| 18:41.55 | DWSR | True enough |
| 18:42.06 | theorbtwo | Morover, what A-OK said. |
| 18:42.20 | theorbtwo | The end of ep 2 ties in pretty directly with portal 1's backstory. |
| 18:42.23 | DWSR | However, I'm wondering if Portal 2->Ep3 might be somewhere. |
| 18:42.26 | DWSR | theorbtwo: Yeah. |
| 18:44.18 | A-KO | must admit, the way they handled this stuff is pretty freakin' awesome. |
| 18:46.32 | theorbtwo | A-KO: Except for the fucking 5 year wait time, yeah. |
| 18:46.59 | A-KO | true |
| 18:48.21 | DWSR | theorbtwo: Doesn't even matter. |
| 18:48.33 | DWSR | That means there's 5 years of Valve awesomeness in it. |
| 18:48.59 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 18:48.59 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 18:49.09 | theorbtwo | Yeah. Anyway, I overestimated -- it's only been 3 years. |
| 18:53.58 | Thrae | Anyone know if this type of addon exists or shall I make one -- take LFG messages in [Trade] and put them in the [LookingForGroup] channel? |
| 18:56.07 | alestane | So, I was pretty much a cad and an ingrate to some people in the channel last night who didn't do anything to deserve it. The observations about the "dogmatic" nature of raiding were neither untrue nor unkind, but rather simply indicators or why I personally will probably never be more than an occasional and indifferent raider. |
| 18:56.56 | DWSR | Thrae: You can try EarToTheGround |
| 18:57.01 | alestane | It's rather like being an Olympian in some ways, I think...that is, what constitutes perfection is well-understood, and your own excellence is ultimately determined by your ability to submit yourself to that perfect ideal. |
| 18:57.02 | DWSR | It's not exactly what you're looking for, but it's close. |
| 18:57.36 | alestane | I'm not personally very good at accepting that attitude. |
| 18:59.19 | DWSR | alestane: Meh. |
| 18:59.34 | alestane | Meh? |
| 19:01.37 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut and I pretty much agreed that the game was set up fairly poorly in terms of design. |
| 19:02.02 | DWSR | You can do things whatever way you want for 79 levels, then at 80, you have to do it a certain way. |
| 19:02.46 | alestane | Ruin seems OP; it clearly does make a difference, so much so that it really seems to dominate the warlock builds like some kind of black hole. |
| 19:04.21 | theorbtwo | alestane: OTOH, that's part of their point, I think. |
| 19:04.39 | theorbtwo | For the first 79 levels, you've got a clear, obvious goal -- to get to the next level. |
| 19:05.03 | theorbtwo | At level 80, you've got a new goal -- to top your DPS/TPS/HPS meter. |
| 19:05.44 | DWSR | Yeah, probably right. |
| 19:05.58 | DWSR | alestane: Have you tried out a 3/53/15 build? |
| 19:07.10 | alestane | My current test is 6/50/15 based on that input. |
| 19:07.26 | alestane | I've only gotten to test it for about two minutes of HHoR though. |
| 19:07.34 | DWSR | blah. |
| 19:07.37 | DWSR | Shouldn't be 6. |
| 19:07.46 | DWSR | You only drop into affliction to take the hit talent. |
| 19:08.43 | DWSR | You can generally think of the trees like this: |
| 19:08.53 | DWSR | Deep affliction = DPS |
| 19:09.09 | DWSR | Demo = survival + pet DPS |
| 19:09.13 | DWSR | Destro = DPS |
| 19:09.36 | DWSR | There's nothing in low affliction that really buffs your DPS. |
| 19:09.54 | DWSR | OTOH, Ruin, ISB, and Bane in Destro increase your DPS by a whole lot. |
| 19:09.57 | Thunder_Child | afliction is fairly good survival |
| 19:10.01 | Thunder_Child | thats how i leveled |
| 19:10.10 | DWSR | Thunder_Child: Yeah, but we're raiding and he wants to be meta. |
| 19:10.12 | DWSR | So :P |
| 19:10.17 | Thunder_Child | ah |
| 19:10.23 | foxlit | grumble, SC2 "promoted" me to silver league :( |
| 19:10.24 | DWSR | alestane: Also, why on earth wouldn't you take meta? |
| 19:10.30 | *** join/#wowuidev ILUVXBINS (~giveitup@84.30.31.147) |
| 19:10.35 | alestane | Why, do raiding 'locks never bother casting Corruption or SoC? |
| 19:10.36 | foxlit | [I wonder if matchmaking even cares] |
| 19:10.58 | DWSR | alestane: The buff to your DPS from Imp. Corr pales in comparison to the buff from Meta. |
| 19:11.02 | DWSR | Link to your spec. |
| 19:11.04 | DWSR | ?* |
| 19:11.09 | alestane | DWSR: I fwas badly disappointed by the course metamorphosis took during alpha development. |
| 19:11.23 | DWSR | alestane: Yeah, I am still disappointed by it, except when I smash it in raids. |
| 19:11.32 | DWSR | And I see SBs critting for upwards of 18k |
| 19:11.35 | alestane | They took an interesting idea and reduced it to an ubercooldown with mediocre visuals. |
| 19:11.36 | DWSR | And soulfires for like 26. |
| 19:12.30 | DWSR | I still think it should be a permanent form that locks out your destro spells and turns you into a melee class. |
| 19:12.53 | DWSR | But anyway. |
| 19:13.01 | *** part/#wowuidev ILUVXBINS (~giveitup@84.30.31.147) |
| 19:13.02 | A-KO | From what I'm gathering they seem to want to take away the idea of permanent form changes, even for some of the druid's forms |
| 19:13.18 | DWSR | alestane: For warlocks, there are no "hybrids" like there were in 3.0 |
| 19:13.35 | DWSR | You need to be at *least* 51 points into any tree to be doing decent DPS. |
| 19:13.47 | alestane | You can tell I'm not a "real" raider because I'll turn down an instant "I'mawesome" button simply because it IS an instant "I'mawesome" button. |
| 19:13.56 | DWSR | mhm |
| 19:14.03 | DWSR | OTOH, you're whinging about your low DPS. :P |
| 19:14.24 | alestane | I didn't whine about my low DPS until people started bitching at me for it in PUGs. |
| 19:14.38 | DWSR | alestane: Look at it this way |
| 19:14.51 | DWSR | You pay your money every month to play the game the way that you want, right? |
| 19:14.56 | alestane | When I started getting tossed from groups because they wanted a prayer of finishing the encounter, I had to start worrying. |
| 19:15.09 | DWSR | (I'm sure you see where I'm going with this). |
| 19:15.34 | alestane | I don't care whether I'm one of those 8k+ hardcore progression people. I'd really rather not stress about that. |
| 19:16.01 | alestane | I just want to experience as much of the content as I can, including the raids, without having people look down their noses at me. |
| 19:16.12 | DWSR | alestane: So cookie cutter |
| 19:17.14 | airtonix | new spell for all classes : lol-gief-loot |
| 19:17.32 | alestane | Only I do, as you say, want to play in certain ways at least to a minimum extent. |
| 19:17.40 | Dagmar | alestsane: I can perhaps suggest mustard gas. |
| 19:17.57 | Dagmar | It's about the only thing that's going to make the elitist kiddies STFU |
| 19:18.01 | alestane | I don't like just taking what someone else says is the optimum solution without trying to determine it on my own first. |
| 19:18.11 | DWSR | alestane: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IMZ0GchkAbihsgzAoE00V:onTz0V |
| 19:18.15 | segora | Hello, is here someone able to answer my a question about the topic of positioning a frame? |
| 19:18.18 | DWSR | The optimal solution (assuming you need hit). |
| 19:18.22 | segora | my = me |
| 19:18.24 | airtonix | Dagmar, i eventually created that dbus script to do stuff under the users account when laptoip lid opens or closes |
| 19:18.31 | DWSR | alestane: If you want to determine it, use simulationcraft. |
| 19:18.41 | Dagmar | ...although, the dungeon deserter debuff is a small price to pay for killing someone with Misdirect for saying even ONE damn thing about beastmastery spec |
| 19:19.12 | airtonix | Dagmar, dbus is pretty sweet, working on creating a script that initiates a backup routine when external hardrives with certain uuids are plugged in |
| 19:19.18 | Dagmar | airtonix: Good. Now you see why we were on about it being the thing dbus was meant for |
| 19:19.35 | DWSR | Dagmar: Meh. |
| 19:19.39 | DWSR | I don't bag on BM hunters. |
| 19:19.42 | DWSR | Until they do shit DPS. |
| 19:19.45 | DWSR | Or they step into my raids. |
| 19:19.47 | DWSR | then I laugh them out. |
| 19:20.13 | Glenjamin | there's a large margin between l2p and elite hardcore |
| 19:20.18 | airtonix | and their cats shit on your toast |
| 19:20.25 | Dagmar | dwsr: I regularly come in ~300 DPS behind people in 25-man gear who are up on me by ~400 gearscore |
| 19:20.55 | DWSR | Dagmar: 400 gearscore is like 2 pieces of gear. |
| 19:20.59 | Dagmar | If they're not wearing 25-man stuff, there's not even room to question it. I'm just the guy at the top of the meters |
| 19:21.11 | Dagmar | DWSR: Not unless I'm running around without pants it's not |
| 19:21.21 | Dagmar | I'm sitting at just under 5k |
| 19:21.37 | DWSR | Dagmar: My only problem with BM is that it brings no fucking raid buffs. |
| 19:21.41 | DWSR | And the other two specs do. |
| 19:21.52 | DWSR | Like, 2/3 for raid buffs. |
| 19:21.57 | Dagmar | DWSR: You should learn to read more carefully. Wolf == raid buff |
| 19:22.24 | DWSR | Which one? Ferocious Inspiration? |
| 19:22.32 | Dagmar | Hell, they're making FI even simpler next patch |
| 19:22.54 | Dagmar | It's just going to be on all the time, instead of waiting the 1-3 GCDs it takes to get a crit at 40% crit |
| 19:22.58 | DWSR | Heh, you're an exception then |
| 19:23.03 | DWSR | Most BM hunters I see are using the spirit beasts. |
| 19:23.26 | Dagmar | I've not gotten a spirit beast at all yet |
| 19:23.40 | Dagmar | I *may* get one if they make some changes to the number of pets we can keep |
| 19:23.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 19:24.01 | Dagmar | I'm a bit put off that the disgusting oozeling noncombat pet has a debuff associated with it |
| 19:24.25 | Dagmar | I just got the thing last week, and I'd like to use it and Tikbalang (ooze-o-lisk pet which is no longer tamable) for AoE work |
| 19:24.27 | Fisker | l2rp |
| 19:24.54 | mikma | l2trollfisker |
| 19:25.08 | mikma | nibbling my bait |
| 19:25.12 | Dagmar | Mostly I just switch between the wolf and the monkey |
| 19:26.28 | Dagmar | I no longer feel able to make determinations about just how stupid players can be |
| 19:26.43 | Dagmar | Somehow or other, there's started a "run" on pristine black diamons and golden pearls on my server |
| 19:26.44 | alestane | segora: Probably. |
| 19:27.26 | Dagmar | A couple of people bought them all up (since they're in short supply) and relisted these dinky outlands materials for 200-300 apiece |
| 19:27.57 | alestane | segora: But I don't think we've heard the question yet, which makes it hard to answer. Shoot. |
| 19:28.02 | Dagmar | Me, being the kind of guy I am, just loooove taking money from people trying to corner a market. I had some of each, so I listed mine at 150g. Mind this is TEN TIMES what they're worth |
| 19:28.32 | Dagmar | I got about 1000g in my mail yesterday as a result. WTF. |
| 19:29.12 | Dagmar | ...but if they're going to pay that, I'll flog Dire Maul some more |
| 19:31.36 | Thrae | DWSR: Thanks. That'll help my own endevours, but not what I was looking for -- trying to get people to use the right frickin' channel ;) |
| 19:31.49 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (~robotusch@50A2DCE4.flatrate.dk) |
| 19:34.17 | Dagmar | InfiniteIgnore: Because it's easier than hunting down and murdering most of the people in Trade |
| 19:36.49 | *** join/#wowuidev eidolarr (~zls@c-71-61-178-129.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 19:36.59 | eidolarr | anyone use xmonad? |
| 19:37.05 | Sesshu | question: the timestamp of one combat log event is 5 or 7 secs higher than a time() that got called at the same time. why? |
| 19:37.06 | Dashkal | Yep |
| 19:37.10 | Dashkal | <3 xmonad |
| 19:37.33 | eidolarr | i am trying to <3 it but i can't get it set up right, trying to pull in info from scattered tutorials and it's not working well |
| 19:37.37 | Dashkal | chann -TRADE? |
| 19:37.40 | eidolarr | do you nest it in gnome? |
| 19:37.55 | Dashkal | I do. I used to run it on its own but I missed things like my automounter |
| 19:38.19 | eidolarr | so do you have the gnome panel and all that? |
| 19:38.34 | Dashkal | I do |
| 19:38.45 | Dashkal | In fact I can't figure a way to be rid of it, but then I got used to it. |
| 19:39.12 | eidolarr | do you need to have some form of gnome running in order to have logout/lock screen? |
| 19:39.37 | Dashkal | Nope |
| 19:39.46 | Dashkal | lock screen can be accomplished with xlock |
| 19:39.56 | Dashkal | logout is simply shutting down xmonad when it's used as a session manager |
| 19:40.03 | Dashkal | shutdown is accomplished by talking to gdl or kdm |
| 19:40.07 | Dashkal | gdm* |
| 19:40.28 | eidolarr | i've managed shutdown with the 'shutdown' program |
| 19:40.37 | Dashkal | that would work too |
| 19:40.58 | Dashkal | but I was talking to the display manager so I wouldn't need to sudo anything |
| 19:41.09 | eidolarr | is there somewhere i can read about session managers? basically i don't understand exactly what it means when i choose Xmonad at the bottom of the login screen |
| 19:41.22 | eidolarr | now i have a bunch of new ones like xsession, xmonad, etc, and my gnome is f'd up |
| 19:41.40 | Dagmar | Not that I'm aware of |
| 19:41.54 | Dashkal | Do you want to run inside of gnome? Do you want those extras? Or would you prefer to run bare-metal? |
| 19:42.04 | Dagmar | The session manager's job is generally just to get the apps you expect to exist for your login session running, and to keep them running |
| 19:42.19 | Dagmar | With GNOME, that would be things like the panels and the file manager slash desktop |
| 19:42.21 | Dashkal | ^^ |
| 19:42.32 | eidolarr | yeah i guess it was poorly worded |
| 19:42.35 | Dagmar | ...and the window manager, of course |
| 19:42.46 | eidolarr | i jsut don't understand things like the .desktop files or again exactly what the dropdown menu at login does |
| 19:42.58 | Dagmar | The .desktop files are meta files |
| 19:43.06 | Dashkal | those are two completely different concepts. .desktop files are basically windows .lnk files. |
| 19:43.13 | Dashkal | the login dropdown is a list of session managers. |
| 19:43.17 | Dagmar | ~dashkal++ |
| 19:43.36 | Dagmar | Might as well be a list of "modes" tho |
| 19:43.52 | Dagmar | ...since each of them basically dictates a whole ton about what's going to appear on the screen |
| 19:44.18 | Dagmar | Yer either in KDE mode, or GNOME mode, or you're a luddite and you're in TWM mode (and not getting much done) |
| 19:44.24 | eidolarr | so if i choose the Xmonad dropdown and i do mod shift Q it should log me out? |
| 19:44.27 | Dagmar | ...or using XFCE, ec |
| 19:44.38 | Dashkal | eidolarr: That is correct |
| 19:44.58 | Dashkal | xfce saved my ass once. Ever run ubuntu 9.10 on a pc with less than half a gig of ram? |
| 19:45.26 | Dagmar | eidolarr: I've no idea what mod-shift-Q is going to do in xmonad, but "probably". Unless you enabled DontZap in xorg.conf, ctrl-alt-bksp will generally log you out somewhat violently. ;) |
| 19:45.42 | Dashkal | mod-shift-Q kills the xmonad process. |
| 19:45.51 | Dagmar | That would do it then |
| 19:45.54 | Dashkal | If you logged in using xmonad as your session manager, that'll log you out |
| 19:46.15 | Shirik | If you are seeing this page, it means there was a problem communicating with our database. Sometimes this error is temporary and will go away when you refresh the page. Sometimes the error will need to be fixed by an administrator before the site will become accessible again. |
| 19:46.17 | Shirik | :( |
| 19:46.24 | Dagmar | Dashkal: If it's got less than 512Mb of RAM I don't even run X on it |
| 19:46.33 | theorbtwo | notes that on very new X, DontZap is the default. |
| 19:46.36 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (~robotusch@50A2DCE4.flatrate.dk) |
| 19:46.36 | Dashkal | Dagmar: That's what I should have done, in retrospect. |
| 19:46.40 | eidolarr | when i try running it thruogh gnome, the first workspace is really f'd up, it has the nautilus desktop and a big blank window |
| 19:46.54 | theorbtwo | Very new xorg, I should say. |
| 19:46.56 | Dashkal | eidolarr: There's a decent gnome tutorial that deals with that |
| 19:47.03 | Shirik | how can half of a site be down? |
| 19:47.05 | Shirik | any ideas? |
| 19:47.18 | eidolarr | http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Xmonad/Using_xmonad_in_Gnome |
| 19:47.19 | eidolarr | that one? |
| 19:47.24 | Dashkal | that's the one I used |
| 19:47.48 | eidolarr | that is what i'm trying to use, but either i'm dumb or it's slightly incorrect |
| 19:47.49 | Dagmar | eidolarr: You didn't do anything weird to it's session config did you? |
| 19:47.51 | Thunder_Child | Shirik: it's hosted on more than one server? |
| 19:47.54 | Shirik | it's not |
| 19:47.55 | eidolarr | probably >.> |
| 19:47.59 | Dashkal | I'd offer to show you my config, but I think it would leave you utterly confused. I can code in haskell so I took full advantage. |
| 19:48.03 | Shirik | it's like half of a database is broken |
| 19:48.08 | Thunder_Child | Shirik: corruption |
| 19:48.27 | Dashkal | eidolarr: fiy: there is #xmoand on this server if you get stuck |
| 19:49.02 | eidolarr | so what's the difference between playing with |
| 19:49.16 | eidolarr | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.41 | Dagmar | One of them is session info, the other is meta info |
| 19:49.58 | Dagmar | Open them both in vi and the difference should become rather obvious |
| 19:50.23 | Dagmar | The /usr/share/applications file is just there for things which want to present you a menu of apps you can run with a click |
| 19:51.03 | Dagmar | If you were to remove the xsessions one, guess what wouldn't show up in GDM anymore |
| 19:51.25 | Dagmar | _probably_. Depending largely on how GDM was setup that time around |
| 19:52.34 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 19:52.34 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 19:52.53 | Shirik | aha |
| 19:52.54 | Shirik | hello |
| 19:53.00 | eidolarr | so I can delete the applications file? |
| 19:53.12 | Dagmar | I keep saying "probably" because there's a lot of different ways GDM/XDM can be configured which will change where they look for important things, which are not necessarily wrong, but will probably be viewed by everyone who expected something else as a misconfiguration |
| 19:53.18 | Shirik | Thunder_Child wins I think http://wowi.pastey.net/133861 |
| 19:53.24 | Dagmar | eidolarr: You can but why would you |
| 19:54.24 | Dagmar | I can't for the life of me remember it just this second, but there's a way to tell the bit that constructs the menus for your panels to simply _not_ show you some things |
| 19:54.36 | eidolarr | largely because i don't understand its purpose heh |
| 19:54.45 | eidolarr | you mean like, the menu with the apps in it? |
| 19:55.18 | Dagmar | eidolarr: Okay. You know how you've got a panel usually that you click on and you get this Apps, Games, Internets, Graphics, Admin menu with all the little submenus, right? |
| 19:55.23 | eidolarr | right |
| 19:55.26 | eidolarr | ok now it's coming together |
| 19:56.19 | Dagmar | Each of those entries is there because of a .desktop application file that tells what it's called, what arguments it can be called with (if needed), what mime types it's registering as a handler for (older use, not often found anymore imho) and where it goes in the menus |
| 19:56.40 | Dagmar | This is why I recommended just lookin' at their contents |
| 19:56.43 | eidolarr | I see |
| 19:56.50 | Dagmar | They're quite human-readable |
| 19:57.01 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 19:57.11 | Dagmar | I do just dearly wish vim would collapse out all the bloody translation lines tho |
| 19:57.15 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (~spode@213-21-74-179.bon.t3.se) |
| 19:57.51 | Dagmar | It's sometimes a little hard to spot the one line you want in amongst fifty variations of name[gb]=Colour App\nname[en]=Color app etc etc |
| 19:58.07 | eidolarr | well fortunately this one is succinct |
| 19:58.12 | Dashkal | newbie vim question: Is there a simple way to make vim, when run under sudo, not make ~ backup files? |
| 19:58.25 | Dagmar | I think the token's acutally nobackup |
| 19:58.58 | Dashkal | I'm not clear on where to set that for vim run under sudo (I'm still learning vim. I like it, but the curve is hurting) |
| 19:59.14 | Dagmar | Dashkal: Run under Sudo it's running as root, right? |
| 19:59.18 | Dagmar | Put it in root's .vimrc |
| 19:59.23 | Dagmar | See also http://lena.franken.de/linux/vim.html |
| 19:59.25 | Dashkal | facepalms |
| 20:00.43 | Dagmar | I have effed up too many files to be telling vim to not make backups |
| 20:01.03 | Dagmar | There's days I sometimes miss the VMS method |
| 20:01.30 | Dagmar | It just automatically generated revision numbers and didn' start nuking old ones until you ran out of quota |
| 20:01.40 | Dashkal | drat, no dice |
| 20:01.44 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-32-134-121.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 20:01.46 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (~robotusch@50A2DCE4.flatrate.dk) |
| 20:01.59 | Dashkal | I just don't like ending up with /etc/foo/bar~ all the time |
| 20:02.12 | foxlit | http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/rebecca-mayes-muses/1505-Mass-Effect-2 @ 2:15 -- where the heck is that? |
| 20:02.14 | Dashkal | so I tend to just sudo nano |
| 20:03.00 | eidolarr | why do you run it with gnome dashkal? automount you said? |
| 20:03.32 | Fisker | ttowards the end i believe foxlit |
| 20:03.36 | Fisker | where you meet ashley i think |
| 20:03.38 | *** part/#wowuidev Glenjamin (~ReadMe@93-96-22-79.zone4.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:03.42 | Fisker | or where you lose your crew |
| 20:04.13 | Dashkal | eidolarr: automount is most of it, yes. |
| 20:04.25 | Dashkal | also *gag* pulseaudio works better this way |
| 20:04.47 | Dashkal | I'm firmly in the "pulseaudio is a solution in need of a problem" camp |
| 20:04.49 | foxlit | Fisker: seems odd |
| 20:05.02 | foxlit | Don't think I've ever seen that shot. |
| 20:05.09 | Dagmar | I'm in the "shoot pulseaudio first, ask questions later" camp |
| 20:05.31 | Dashkal | I had to use it. I could be rid of it now, but at the time, mangler (native linux vent client) was pulse only |
| 20:05.34 | foxlit | The scenery is similar to Horizon's End, though |
| 20:05.46 | Dashkal | and of course the whole wine-pulse debacle made that even more fun |
| 20:06.19 | Dagmar | I fail to see why people are even trying to use it still |
| 20:06.28 | Dashkal | ubuntu standardized on it. |
| 20:06.33 | eidolarr | ok i'm gonna dick around with it more, thanks for the help |
| 20:06.38 | Dagmar | That doesn't mean it wasn't a dim move |
| 20:06.41 | Dashkal | Agreed |
| 20:06.42 | Dagmar | You can still use ALSA around it |
| 20:06.54 | Dashkal | But it's part of why people keep using it. It's there |
| 20:07.01 | ZorbaTHut | linux audio is just so stunningly awful |
| 20:07.13 | Dagmar | ...and any problems ALSA has with dmix which would be the reason you went to pulse _aren't_ fixed by pulse because it makes the same damn mistakes |
| 20:07.20 | Dashkal | ZorbaTHut: I have very few issues with it these days. Talk to be about the redhat 6 days... |
| 20:07.42 | Dagmar | People should just be required to buy frelling soundblaster cards |
| 20:08.00 | Dashkal | I have my eyes on that pretty asus card. But I can't justify it when I need to upgrade the rest of my computer. |
| 20:08.14 | ZorbaTHut | dashkal, my mom's computer randomly mutes itself, and wine audio completely breaks itself approximately every week, and the wine configuration dialog used to crash in the "audio" tab |
| 20:08.21 | Dagmar | Spend the sixteen dollars on a damn audio card that can handle stream muxing and stop expecting WinAudio chipsets to do things they seldom do right or at all |
| 20:08.34 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, I wouldn't even say that |
| 20:08.39 | ZorbaTHut | just do your damn audio mixing in software |
| 20:08.43 | Dashkal | ZorbaTHut: Ouch. Yeah, I can understand your complaint. I have no such issues. |
| 20:08.46 | ZorbaTHut | computers are fast, why bother involving flaky hardware at all |
| 20:08.53 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: That's what dmix is supposed to do |
| 20:08.59 | Dagmar | In THEORY it should "just work" |
| 20:09.05 | ZorbaTHut | sound hardware made sense in the 90's, it doesn't make sense today. |
| 20:09.19 | Dagmar | The problem as I see it is that ALSA foolishly believes cards which are supposed to be able to mux, but in reality just don't |
| 20:09.23 | Dashkal | I dunno, I want a card because I want sound processing off of my CPU. Free those cycles for other things. |
| 20:09.26 | ZorbaTHut | (my "sound card" is a USB device that just takes a sound stream and outputs it. I have had no trouble ever since installing it.) |
| 20:09.43 | Dagmar | Throw an SBLive card which actually DOES mux streams fine into the box, and the problem evaporates |
| 20:09.44 | ZorbaTHut | dashkal, seriously, the amount of CPU sound processing takes today is minimal. you might use more CPU waiting on hardware interrupts for your sound card to do fancy shit. |
| 20:10.06 | Dagmar | The only other solution is to forcibly enable dmix |
| 20:10.27 | ZorbaTHut | I honestly feel like providing support for audio hardware is a red herring |
| 20:10.28 | Dagmar | ...which isn't that bad of an idea since I suspect the number of times that would be the wrong solution would be the minoriyt |
| 20:10.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (~supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:10.36 | Dashkal | The funny thing is that in my experience, pulse does work reasonably well, it's just so pointless when a fixed dmix would do just as well. |
| 20:10.41 | nevcairiel | alsa is a hardware access lirbary, using it for anymore then that is just too much pain |
| 20:11.04 | nevcairiel | you guys should try oss4 |
| 20:11.04 | Dagmar | nevcariel: It used to be like four lines of stuff you had to type in to enable dmix. Now it's in ALSA by default |
| 20:11.14 | Dagmar | It just trusts sound cards it shouldn't. |
| 20:11.38 | ZorbaTHut | nev, that's sort of the problem, I don't try anything |
| 20:11.38 | nevcairiel | try properly setting up a 5.1 or even 7.1 with pure alsa |
| 20:11.40 | Dashkal | I wonder if it's trusting my onboard sound... I have few audio issues so I hesitate to poke at it lest I break it |
| 20:11.40 | nevcairiel | have fun. |
| 20:11.44 | ZorbaTHut | I install what Ubuntu tells me to install |
| 20:11.47 | ZorbaTHut | and then it doesn't work and I get angry |
| 20:11.59 | Dagmar | nevcariel: Assuming the thing isn't an intel_HDA chipset, that's actually really easy |
| 20:12.04 | Dagmar | -Dsurround51 |
| 20:12.05 | Dashkal | You trusted Ubuntu? Psh, you're a geek, you should know better. |
| 20:12.06 | ZorbaTHut | that is what needs to be fixed, I don't care what alphabet-soup package is needed to fix it :P |
| 20:12.09 | nevcairiel | no, not its not |
| 20:12.14 | nevcairiel | s/not/no/ |
| 20:12.17 | Dagmar | There's default profiles for 4.1, 5.1, 7.1 and so on in ALSA now |
| 20:12.24 | nevcairiel | have been for a while |
| 20:12.26 | nevcairiel | but it doesnt work |
| 20:12.29 | Dagmar | I've been using them with MythTV for well over a year |
| 20:12.34 | Dashkal | I keep getting tempted to play with gentoo again, but I likes my OS that just works. |
| 20:12.54 | Dagmar | speaker-test -c6 -Dsurround51 -twav I have typed *so* many times trying to work around six-stack efups |
| 20:13.08 | Dashkal | 5.1. I want that back. I just need a computer room where I can physically set it up. |
| 20:13.08 | nevcairiel | sound is one of the most broken systems in desktop-linux |
| 20:13.16 | Dagmar | ...like "which freaking ports does it think do what in _this_ kernel release" |
| 20:13.48 | Dagmar | Intel should have started flogging makers of chipset variants early and often |
| 20:13.54 | Dagmar | Now it's a disaster of one-offs |
| 20:14.09 | nevcairiel | I used pulseaudio mostly because the code was simple enough to write a patch to make it do exactly wtf i want |
| 20:14.47 | Dashkal | There is one feature of pulseaudio I like: per-process volume sliders. |
| 20:14.55 | Dashkal | Now if only they'd remember between sessions... |
| 20:15.12 | Dashkal | I suspect they do and it's the apps that are broken, but I'm too lazy to properly test that. |
| 20:15.16 | nevcairiel | but i'm getting a proper AV-Receiver soon .. no that will be fun .. setting up proper digital redirection |
| 20:15.22 | Dashkal | I'd have to learn how to write sound code. |
| 20:16.28 | nevcairiel | I wonder how much work it would be to write a simple soundserver on top of alsa |
| 20:16.35 | nevcairiel | but then, apps would need to support it |
| 20:16.38 | nevcairiel | which is bad again |
| 20:16.45 | Dagmar | You mean like, esd |
| 20:16.52 | Dashkal | esd, arts, pulse, ... |
| 20:16.56 | Dagmar | It's a nasty cycle |
| 20:17.02 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo (~gdbzet26@p4FEFF30F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:17.04 | nevcairiel | nothing uses esd or arts anymore |
| 20:17.10 | theorbtwo | looks at the usernames and goes "hey, wait, this isn't #pulseaudio". |
| 20:17.33 | Dashkal | theorbtwo: it was #xmonad a moment ago, learn to keep up :P |
| 20:18.00 | nevcairiel | people can curse pulseaudio all the want, it was the solution that got me proper sound the last time i tried, next time i'm redoing, i'm testing oss4 |
| 20:18.35 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 20:18.35 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 20:19.17 | Dashkal | I don't so much curse pulseaudio as curse what lead to it's inception. They solved the wrong problem. |
| 20:19.17 | theorbtwo | I quite like pulseaudio, but I use it for the original point -- I have a sound server, and several machines that output to it. |
| 20:19.28 | cog|away | http://www.mcsweeneys.net/links/openletters/10randi.html NSFW if you use a screen reader >.> |
| 20:19.36 | Dashkal | Properly regulating access to the sound system feels like the kernel's job to me. |
| 20:19.48 | Dagmar | It's not supposed to regulate |
| 20:19.51 | Dashkal | theorbtwo: Now THAT use case I can get behind |
| 20:19.54 | Dagmar | It's supposed to enable |
| 20:20.08 | nevcairiel | the kernel should give us hardware abstraction, everything else should be userland |
| 20:20.20 | Dashkal | Shouldn't you be running QNX then? |
| 20:20.30 | Shirik | ok now the site has cmopletely exploded... |
| 20:21.24 | nevcairiel | I wonder if i can get 5.1 -> AC3 -> SPDIF to work using alsa or anything, for that matter |
| 20:22.02 | Dashkal | I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't sanely, which of course is part of why pulseaudio came about |
| 20:22.23 | nevcairiel | no idea if pulseaudio can do it |
| 20:22.45 | nevcairiel | but digital links cannot send multi-channel if you don't encode it in DTS or AC3 first |
| 20:22.57 | nevcairiel | which is really painful on linux, apparently |
| 20:23.01 | nevcairiel | on windows its one checkbox <.< |
| 20:23.13 | Dashkal | now we're getting over my head. I'll deal with that if I ever get my computer setup with a decent sound system. |
| 20:23.27 | Dashkal | I'm 3.1 simply because there's nowhere to physically set up the other speakers. |
| 20:23.45 | nevcairiel | i'm still considering using linux for my HTPC, but its all so overly complicated |
| 20:23.58 | Dashkal | Actually, 4.1, but I don't often see that as an option |
| 20:24.08 | nevcairiel | and i'm getting one of those shiny asus sound cards |
| 20:24.24 | cog|away | alestane: won a greed roll on Gift of the Wild III book (level 70)... should i send it to your drood? |
| 20:25.00 | Dashkal | mmm, nother strike against getting that shiny card. I'm upgrading to a quad core. The card isn't going to do anything that a spare core can't pick up. Not many (any?) games can take advantage of 4 cores yet. |
| 20:26.32 | nevcairiel | I'm not getting it for the performance off-loading |
| 20:26.47 | Shirik | gah finally |
| 20:26.51 | Shirik | I hate myisam |
| 20:26.53 | Dashkal | *nods* I know, but that's the only excuse I had. |
| 20:33.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Babel (~WinNT@c-68-50-224-114.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:35.58 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/Mulgore#The_zone_and_popular_culture_references |
| 20:36.03 | Adys | .. I never noticed |
| 20:37.34 | Shirik | Adys |
| 20:37.38 | Shirik | hi |
| 20:37.58 | Adys | hi <3 |
| 20:39.16 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (~tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 20:39.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 20:41.08 | Fisker | lol |
| 20:41.32 | Cide | hi Adys and Shirik |
| 20:41.40 | Shirik | hi Cide |
| 20:41.43 | Shirik | myisam is evil |
| 20:41.45 | Shirik | that is all |
| 20:41.57 | Cide | why would you use mysql? |
| 20:42.08 | foxlit | well, of course, /your/isam is evil. |
| 20:42.16 | Thunder_Child | would you rather he used mssql? |
| 20:42.24 | Shirik | I am using mssql too, don't worry |
| 20:44.58 | Adys | anything remotely related to microsoft is evil, Shirik |
| 20:45.12 | *** join/#wowuidev ogreinside (~vinny@cpe-72-179-43-115.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 20:45.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (~Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 20:45.20 | Shirik | (Quit: I ⥠Unicode) |
| 20:45.25 | Shirik | .. |
| 20:45.30 | Shirik | The heart does not need to be unicode |
| 20:45.31 | Shirik | foo |
| 20:48.00 | Adys | Ƶ shirik |
| 20:48.19 | Shirik | how long did that take you? |
| 20:48.28 | Adys | two altgr strokes |
| 20:48.30 | foxlit | what the heck is that f? |
| 20:48.32 | Adys | so about 1 second |
| 20:48.34 | foxlit | µ is on alt-m anyway |
| 20:48.43 | Adys | its a latin f |
| 20:48.46 | Dashkal | ËÉpoÉıun ÊÉÊ ËunÉ sı ÊxÉÊ uÊop Épısdn |
| 20:49.00 | Adys | used to be on mac keyboards for a shorthand to new folder |
| 20:49.06 | Adys | was pretty sweet |
| 20:49.09 | Shirik | ¡oo? u?op ?pisdn bui?i?? ??o1 i |
| 20:49.11 | Shirik | ... |
| 20:49.19 | cogwheel | ~failrik |
| 20:49.20 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 20:49.22 | Adys | Æail |
| 20:49.32 | Shirik | ¡ooÊ uÊop Çpısdn buıÊÄ±É¹Ê ÇÊo1 ı |
| 20:49.37 | Shirik | That has got to be the stupidest setting in mirc |
| 20:49.56 | Dashkal | Heh, I just googled upside down text generator and used the first result |
| 20:50.20 | Shirik | no |
| 20:50.23 | Shirik | I mean the UTF-8 thing |
| 20:50.24 | Adys | ~failrik |
| 20:50.25 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 20:50.27 | Adys | thats for using mirc |
| 20:50.29 | Dashkal | Though there's probably a |
| 20:50.32 | Dashkal | Ahh |
| 20:50.35 | Shirik | how by default it just chooses to use ASCII |
| 20:50.36 | Cide | set sail for fail |
| 20:50.49 | Dashkal | Yeah, that is amazinly stupid nowadays |
| 20:51.01 | Cide | ascii is so 1995 |
| 20:52.27 | Dashkal | ascii should probably be de-standardized at this point |
| 20:52.36 | alestane | cogwheel: If you like, although I'm still so far from using it that the question isn't terribly relevant. |
| 20:52.45 | Dashkal | It's called unicode. Here are your unicode to 8 bit byte stream encodings. Have fun |
| 20:53.23 | Dashkal | I had a run-in with tmux along the same lines. Stupid things defaults to ascii |
| 20:53.51 | Cide | is there such a thing as de-standardization? |
| 20:53.53 | Cide | I mean |
| 20:54.03 | Cide | you can't tell people to stop using it more than we already have |
| 20:54.06 | Dashkal | I dunno, deprecate it in ISO or wherver it's standardized |
| 20:54.21 | alestane | Gonna say, usually we call that deprecation. |
| 20:54.22 | Cide | and it's not like anyone would implement ascii in *another* way than the standard, if they were to implement it |
| 20:54.34 | Cide | yeah, sadly I doubt it would help |
| 20:54.42 | Dashkal | The point is for there to be big shiny red "DEPRECATED" messages when the standard is looked up |
| 20:54.52 | cogwheel | who actually looks up the standard though? |
| 20:54.53 | Cide | who needs to look at the standard? |
| 20:54.55 | Dashkal | At which point we can mock people for implementing it |
| 20:54.56 | Cide | ^ |
| 20:54.57 | cogwheel | !g ascii chart |
| 20:54.58 | batbot | cogwheel: Ascii Table - ASCII character codes and html, octal, hex and ... <http://www.asciitable.com/> |
| 20:55.06 | Cide | also |
| 20:55.10 | Cide | people aren't implementing it |
| 20:55.15 | Cide | if we are to stop using ascii |
| 20:55.34 | Cide | C/C++ needs to switch char to wchar_t or equivalent (I don't know these languages mind you) |
| 20:55.39 | Cide | you shouldn't be able to not use unicode |
| 20:55.44 | Cide | or else people will not support it |
| 20:55.45 | Dashkal | There is a new c++ standard in the works... |
| 20:55.54 | Shirik | C++0x ftmfw |
| 20:55.57 | Dashkal | char being 8 bits is a major issue |
| 20:56.09 | Shirik | ? |
| 20:56.10 | Shirik | what? |
| 20:56.13 | Dashkal | Fortunately a good number of languages are dealing with that. |
| 20:56.37 | Shirik | They're adding more support, but there's no "issue" about char |
| 20:56.42 | cogwheel | c++ has had wchar_t since it was standardized |
| 20:56.52 | cogwheel | it's the frameworks and libraries that need to be updated imo |
| 20:56.57 | Shirik | They're simply adding support for unicode strings |
| 20:57.06 | Cide | yeah |
| 20:57.08 | Shirik | u8"blah blah" |
| 20:57.12 | Dashkal | What I'm saying is support for non-unicode strings needs to be dropped |
| 20:57.26 | Dagmar | BAD idea |
| 20:57.32 | Dashkal | Outright. Does not compile dropped. |
| 20:57.32 | Dagmar | HUGELY bad idea |
| 20:57.38 | cogwheel | except for all the things that still use ascii |
| 20:57.43 | Dagmar | Yes. |
| 20:57.46 | Shirik | agree with Dagmar |
| 20:57.50 | cogwheel | C++ is a real language used by real people in real situations |
| 20:58.00 | cogwheel | some of those situations include using 8-bit characters |
| 20:58.00 | Dashkal | Eh, backwords compatability is a cancer. |
| 20:58.01 | Dagmar | You'll _definitely_ continue to need a way to sensibly import older ASCII strings |
| 20:58.06 | Shirik | It's not backwards compatibility |
| 20:58.11 | kd3 | gah |
| 20:58.13 | Dagmar | ...otherwise you've got no chance at converting them into Unicode. |
| 20:58.13 | Shirik | it's that not everything has gigabytes of memory |
| 20:58.15 | Dashkal | ascii -> unicode is dead easy |
| 20:58.21 | kd3 | 3 hours later I finally get turbotax installed on my parents computer |
| 20:58.23 | kd3 | wtf intuit |
| 20:58.59 | Dagmar | Dashkal: And yet, it becomes pretty damn hard the moment you stubbornly _drop_ all 8-bit char support |
| 20:59.05 | Shirik | There's no reason to get rid of ASCII support entirely |
| 20:59.11 | Shirik | if you don't need unicode, don't use it |
| 20:59.17 | Dashkal | Dagmar: Why? That's a function of the decoding of the binary data into strings. |
| 20:59.19 | Shirik | Unicode is substantially more complex |
| 20:59.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (kalroth@d40aa731.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 20:59.58 | Cide | well |
| 21:00.01 | Shirik | I'm still very pissed that they dropped concepts from C++0x |
| 21:00.07 | Cide | microsoft could drop their ascii api |
| 21:00.12 | Cide | or deprecate it anyway |
| 21:00.13 | Shirik | no they can't |
| 21:00.24 | ZorbaTHut | C++'s slow development is simultaneously its greatest strength and its greatest weakness |
| 21:00.32 | Cide | why not? |
| 21:00.35 | Cide | it'd be a pain, sure |
| 21:00.37 | Shirik | Because I need it |
| 21:00.39 | Shirik | No |
| 21:00.48 | Cide | for what? |
| 21:00.50 | Shirik | If I built in the Microsoft support for unicode my hardware requirements would skyrocket |
| 21:00.59 | Shirik | Again, not everything has tons of memory |
| 21:01.05 | Cide | right |
| 21:01.10 | Cide | but would you run it on windows 7? |
| 21:01.12 | ZorbaTHut | shirik, at most, the ram requirement would double |
| 21:01.20 | Shirik | ZorbaTHut: That's a lot |
| 21:01.24 | Cide | but would you run it on windows 7? |
| 21:01.24 | Dashkal | Store it internally as utf8 if you have to? |
| 21:01.26 | ZorbaTHut | and in reality, far less than that, unless your app stores nothing more than hundreds of megabytes of strings |
| 21:01.39 | Shirik | (1) it has nothing to do with what it STORES |
| 21:01.40 | Cide | or windows 8 or their new name |
| 21:01.43 | Shirik | it has everything to do with the API |
| 21:01.54 | Dashkal | are you taking CPU requirements or RAM requirements? |
| 21:01.54 | Shirik | (2) The CPU performance would drop immensely as well, and we're already pushing its limits |
| 21:01.59 | Shirik | both |
| 21:02.00 | Dagmar | It's um, rather a lot of stuff on Windows Mobile |
| 21:02.00 | Kalroth | ZorbaTHut: Ever tried Microsofts XML DOM? :p |
| 21:02.24 | ZorbaTHut | kalroth, no, I'm just saying that unicode alone isn't generally that huge of a difference :P |
| 21:02.25 | Cide | but Shirik |
| 21:02.27 | Dashkal | Windows Mobile? Ahh, nevermind. Not going there. |
| 21:02.33 | Shirik | And ZorbaTHut, I'm talking about my entire log system, which stores somewhere around 10MB/sec |
| 21:02.53 | ZorbaTHut | shirik, so, store it as utf-8 then? |
| 21:03.00 | Shirik | no? |
| 21:03.06 | ZorbaTHut | why not? |
| 21:03.11 | Shirik | Because that requires CPU time! |
| 21:03.13 | Dashkal | if all you're using is 7-bit ascii, you already ARE storing it as utf8... |
| 21:03.14 | ZorbaTHut | (psst you probably already are storing it as utf-8) |
| 21:03.20 | Kalroth | Most modern drives (read: since 1990) got no issues writing 10mb/s! |
| 21:03.21 | Shirik | Look |
| 21:03.29 | Shirik | it has nothing to do with the fact taht the representation is identical |
| 21:03.36 | Shirik | it has everything to do with the fact that the API has to CHECK that it's identical |
| 21:03.40 | Shirik | which costs time |
| 21:03.56 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I mean, I'm not going to argue that it's equivalent in every case and you can always spare the CPU |
| 21:04.03 | ZorbaTHut | but in the vast vast vast majority of cases you can spare the CPU |
| 21:04.11 | Shirik | But not all |
| 21:04.12 | ZorbaTHut | 10mb/s is pretty near negligable |
| 21:04.13 | Shirik | which is why it cannot be dropped |
| 21:04.19 | Shirik | ha |
| 21:04.28 | Shirik | tell that to the guys that are constantly trying to optimize it because it's our bottleneck |
| 21:04.33 | Dashkal | If you're performance requirements are so tight, why aren't you writing this in assembly? |
| 21:04.37 | Dashkal | Completely serious |
| 21:04.39 | ZorbaTHut | it could be dropped. all kinds of people drop stuff all the time that's a performance issue |
| 21:04.45 | Shirik | Dashkal: Because that would be moronic |
| 21:04.50 | ZorbaTHut | hell OSX is getting rid of their C++ interface, you'll have to use Objective C instead |
| 21:04.57 | Dashkal | ok, enough arguing with someone dogmatic. |
| 21:05.02 | Kalroth | uhm, maybe if they had some sort of cache then - writing 10mb/s really shouldn't be an issue |
| 21:05.11 | ZorbaTHut | operating systems aren't intended to give you direct access to the hardware and make things as fast as fucking humanly possible :P |
| 21:05.18 | ZorbaTHut | also, what platform are you running on? |
| 21:05.20 | Shirik | Again, you guys are thinking in terms of a PC |
| 21:05.21 | Shirik | This is not a PC |
| 21:05.26 | Kalroth | what is it then? |
| 21:05.35 | Cide | Shirik: if you have these tight requirements |
| 21:05.35 | Shirik | it's an embedded system, I said this a while ago |
| 21:05.42 | Cide | would you by any reason run this on windows 7 or 8? |
| 21:05.48 | Kalroth | Sorry, I joined later, so missed it |
| 21:05.53 | Kalroth | (I think) |
| 21:06.07 | Cide | I mean, if you're running this huge OS you're already looking at cpu/mem requirements that far exceed what switching to pure unicode would add |
| 21:06.09 | Shirik | Cide: no, but how did we get there? |
| 21:06.17 | Cide | so it should be doable for modern OS's? |
| 21:06.21 | Shirik | No |
| 21:06.26 | Cide | why not? |
| 21:06.32 | Shirik | Unless you want to create a completely different language for two different OSes |
| 21:06.34 | Kalroth | anyways, if its an embedded system why the hell are you even writing 10mb/s of log? unless the system is designed for logging of course |
| 21:06.35 | Dagmar | In theory Windows Mobile is a "modern" OS. |
| 21:06.38 | Shirik | The issue we were talking about was C++ support |
| 21:06.39 | Dashkal | Dropping support in windows 7 would not affect your use case |
| 21:06.46 | Shirik | (not using windows mobile btw) |
| 21:07.04 | Cide | if microsoft dropped their ascii api people would be forced to change to their wchar_t api, no? |
| 21:07.13 | Dagmar | yuuck |
| 21:07.17 | Shirik | oh there's another problem actually |
| 21:07.19 | Cide | and by dropped I mean deprecating it with a proper cycle |
| 21:07.23 | Shirik | we do all our simulations on a conventional OS |
| 21:07.26 | Kalroth | unicode for president! |
| 21:07.30 | Dagmar | Good luck getting people to use it _correctly_ |
| 21:07.35 | Cide | meh |
| 21:07.36 | Shirik | currently windows xp but I see no reason to not use it on windows 7 |
| 21:07.39 | Cide | if they don't they can suck it |
| 21:07.51 | Shirik | by dropping that support we would no longer be able to do our simulations |
| 21:07.51 | Dagmar | microsoft has managed to screw up what would otherwise be sensible markers for byte ordering there |
| 21:07.53 | Kalroth | if people can use utf-8 correctly then they can bloody well use unicode correctly too |
| 21:07.57 | Cide | it's better to not have an app than to have a non-unicode aware app made by idiots who can't figure out unicode |
| 21:08.12 | Dagmar | Kalroth: Go hacking around in the data files for Sims 3 sometime |
| 21:08.23 | Kalroth | yeah? |
| 21:08.31 | Shirik | Point is, I totally agree mosto f the world should start using wchar_t for everything |
| 21:08.38 | Shirik | However, forcing that on people by revoking APIs is not the way to do it |
| 21:08.49 | Cide | why not? out of curiosity |
| 21:08.50 | Shirik | you will inevitably piss people off |
| 21:08.50 | Dashkal | If you don't force people, they won't do it at all. |
| 21:08.56 | Dashkal | As evidenced by broken software in 2010 |
| 21:08.58 | Shirik | People still use FORTRAN ok? |
| 21:09.00 | Kalroth | EA aren't people, so them fucking their datafiles up doesn't surprise me |
| 21:09.02 | kd3 | so? back-compat is a holy cow that needs to die |
| 21:09.04 | Dagmar | Some of it's UTF-16, some of it is UTF-8/ASCII. About half or more of the stuff that's actually UTF-16 uses Microsoft's more or less made-up byte-order markers |
| 21:09.06 | ZorbaTHut | people get pissed off by everything |
| 21:09.07 | nevcairiel | who cares if people are pissed off =P |
| 21:09.14 | Shirik | kd3: It. Is. Not. About. Backwards. Compatibility. |
| 21:09.19 | Kalroth | kd3: if you dont care about money, sure. |
| 21:09.29 | Dashkal | Pissing off programmers isn't exactly a bad thing |
| 21:09.42 | ZorbaTHut | shirik, it's not about efficiency either, though |
| 21:09.43 | nevcairiel | MS just faield for betting on UTF-16 while the remaining world uses UTF-8 |
| 21:09.54 | Shirik | Fact of the matter is if you drop non-unicode support, people will simply use older technology |
| 21:09.56 | ZorbaTHut | unicode is just not a bottleneck on the vast majority of realistic systems |
| 21:09.56 | Dagmar | They seem completely fine with doing whatever they like using wchar just because MS products can reliably read their own mangled files |
| 21:10.00 | Shirik | it will not convince people to start fixing it |
| 21:10.07 | Cide | eh |
| 21:10.16 | Shirik | I am still working with tools that require DOSBox to run |
| 21:10.17 | Kalroth | UTF-16 isn't "proper" unicode, its variable-length too |
| 21:10.18 | Cide | if they want apps to run on the latest version of windows they should take a hint |
| 21:10.19 | Dashkal | Until that older tech simply cannot perform as well sa they need. They they either upgrade or fail. |
| 21:10.41 | Dagmar | kalroth: Variable means different things to Microsoft, apparently. These files are all two bytes per char |
| 21:10.48 | Dagmar | Lots and lots of nulls |
| 21:10.49 | zenzelezz | <nevcairiel> MS just faield for betting on UTF-16 while the remaining world uses UTF-8 <-- in what context? I think several frameworks stick to UTF-16 internally (don't know about OSes) |
| 21:11.00 | Kalroth | uhm, yes? |
| 21:11.09 | Kalroth | UTF-16 is variable in the other direction |
| 21:11.10 | Shirik | doesn't Java do UTF-16 as well? |
| 21:11.19 | Kalroth | its ALWAYS 2 bytes, but it can be 4 bytes too |
| 21:11.22 | nevcairiel | java can do what you need it to do |
| 21:11.24 | theorbtwo | Kalroth: It's not variable length, so much as it's 21 bits. We just had this discussion on #haskell. |
| 21:11.34 | ZorbaTHut | shirik, yeah, it does now |
| 21:11.40 | Kalroth | Variable length means that a character isn't a set size |
| 21:11.47 | nevcairiel | But everyone else uses UTF-8 simply because it is ASCII compatible |
| 21:11.55 | Dashkal | The internal encoding of a string in java is an implemetation detail. Char is 4 bytes, iirc. |
| 21:11.56 | nevcairiel | which UTF-16 lacks |
| 21:12.09 | ZorbaTHut | dashkal, I believe char is two bytes, unless they finally changed it |
| 21:12.15 | Kalroth | proper unicode (format 2) is always 2 bytes, UTF-8 is at least 1 byte but can be more, UTF-16 is at least 2 bytes but can be more |
| 21:12.16 | theorbtwo | The problem is that in the early days, the unicode consortium thought that 16 bits would be enough. It's not. |
| 21:12.18 | Dashkal | I could be wrong there, ZorbaTHut |
| 21:12.24 | ZorbaTHut | a while back they announced that "characters" were going to be multi-"char" now |
| 21:12.26 | Kalroth | Sure |
| 21:12.32 | ZorbaTHut | which I laughed at greatly, since they basically caused the problem on themselves |
| 21:12.41 | theorbtwo | Kalroth: Er, you are wrong. These days, a unicode codepoint can go up to 0x10FFFF. |
| 21:12.43 | Dashkal | That said, Java makes the trasnition between String and binary data explicit. You have to encode somehow. IIRC UTF-8 is the default. |
| 21:12.45 | Shirik | A String represents a string in the UTF-16 format in which supplementary characters are represented by surrogate pairs (see the section Unicode Character Representations in the Character class for more information). Index values refer to char code units, so a supplementary character uses two positions in a String. |
| 21:13.01 | Kalroth | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-16 |
| 21:13.14 | theorbtwo | UTF-16 is variable length, you can use either 16 bytes or 32 bytes for a single character. |
| 21:13.21 | Kalroth | Yes, thats what I said |
| 21:13.25 | ZorbaTHut | theorb, bits. ;) |
| 21:13.26 | Dashkal | By default I mean what happens if you take an un-configured bufferedwriter backed by a fileoutputstream |
| 21:13.30 | Kalroth | (only 2 or 4) |
| 21:13.37 | theorbtwo | slaps his forhead. |
| 21:13.46 | theorbtwo | Yes, 16 or 32 bits. |
| 21:13.54 | Dashkal | Shirik: Apologies. I'm out of practice on the spec. |
| 21:14.39 | theorbtwo | I, too, tend to think that utf8 is a better thing to use for most uses. |
| 21:14.40 | Shirik | The only things I know are specifications |
| 21:14.43 | Kalroth | when I say "proper" unicode I mean the UCS-2 standard, which is always 2 bytes, even if it screws over a never used chinese dialect |
| 21:14.43 | ZorbaTHut | (our new 32-byte characters are *guaranteed* to store all possible galactic languages!) |
| 21:14.45 | Shirik | I know nothing about pop culture |
| 21:14.47 | Cide | how about this |
| 21:14.51 | Cide | new idea |
| 21:14.51 | Shirik | etc. |
| 21:15.03 | Shirik | I read IEEE standards for some light reading |
| 21:15.14 | Dagmar | zorbathut: Up to and including side-band transmissions of "smell" and "glort" |
| 21:15.19 | Cide | every app that uses the ascii api forces a dialog box similar to UAC in the next version of windows |
| 21:15.22 | Cide | good idea? |
| 21:15.24 | Kalroth | Shirik: dont lie, we know you got MTV running on the telly |
| 21:15.31 | Shirik | Cide: lol |
| 21:15.34 | Kalroth | Cide: hah |
| 21:15.38 | ZorbaTHut | cide, I've thought for a while that there should be some similar gradual deprecation process |
| 21:15.40 | Shirik | Kalroth: lol, I don't even know what channel MTV is |
| 21:15.42 | ZorbaTHut | "hey shit is gonna start breaking" |
| 21:15.43 | theorbtwo | Kalroth: Yeah. UCS-2 shouldn't be used. IIRC, UCS-2 doesn't allow the suplimentary characters, and thus can only express a subset of Unicode. |
| 21:15.44 | Shirik | or if I have it at all for that matter |
| 21:15.45 | ZorbaTHut | "get on it" |
| 21:16.01 | theorbtwo | Calling it "proper unicode" is, er, just plain wrong. |
| 21:16.13 | *** join/#wowuidev kdtresh (~kdtresh@adsl-75-14-214-43.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:16.13 | Dashkal | As for the businesses that simply refuse to change, leave them to their 386 boxes |
| 21:16.17 | zenzelezz | on Win2000+, any app that uses ASCII functions just impose additional as the ASCII functions internally just convert it to UTF-16, call the UTF-16 function, convert it back and return it |
| 21:16.24 | zenzelezz | that's bad enough |
| 21:16.35 | Shirik | cogwheel: Have you ever worked with team foundation server? |
| 21:16.42 | Kalroth | theorbtwo: Like I said, never used dialect. USC-2 is plenty for 99.999999% of those in the world. Hell they even put in retarded nerd languages in there, thow them out! |
| 21:16.47 | ZorbaTHut | zenzelezz, I don't see a problem with it |
| 21:17.01 | ZorbaTHut | any app written back when the UTF-16 versions didn't exist is certainly not going to have performance issues today |
| 21:17.06 | ZorbaTHut | and if it does, well, go fix your shit |
| 21:17.06 | zenzelezz | ZorbaTHut: for compatibility it's good, but it doesn't promote using Unicode |
| 21:17.13 | ZorbaTHut | zenzelezz, ah, fair 'nuff |
| 21:17.17 | Kalroth | those with a weird language and will ever use a computer* |
| 21:17.22 | theorbtwo | Kalroth: You should feel free to say that 16 bits should be enough for everyone. Just don't call it unicode. |
| 21:17.32 | Kalroth | dunno how half the sentence got left out |
| 21:17.36 | Kalroth | hum? |
| 21:17.50 | Kalroth | How is USC-2 not unicode? |
| 21:17.55 | Cide | what is this i don't even |
| 21:17.55 | Kalroth | er, UCS |
| 21:18.07 | Shirik | USC |
| 21:18.15 | Shirik | doesn'tthat stand for something? |
| 21:18.27 | Shirik | "united states code" I guess |
| 21:18.32 | kdtresh | university of southern california |
| 21:18.32 | Kalroth | universal shirik counter |
| 21:18.37 | Cide | soon, united states of canada |
| 21:18.44 | Shirik | no ty |
| 21:18.46 | theorbtwo | UCS-2 encodes a subset of unicode. |
| 21:18.51 | Shirik | I refuse to ride a horse |
| 21:18.55 | Cide | you will be assimilated |
| 21:18.59 | zenzelezz | ugly, salivating creature |
| 21:19.08 | Shirik | No time for that now, thanks, maybe later |
| 21:19.36 | theorbtwo | That's like saying ASCII is latin-1. |
| 21:19.41 | Cide | I shall be going afk |
| 21:19.45 | Cide | I will leave you with a fun fact |
| 21:19.46 | Shirik | moi aussi |
| 21:19.51 | Cide | I just registered www.battlegoats.com |
| 21:20.17 | theorbtwo | Cide: Now all you need to do is program the next big facebook game and strike it rich! |
| 21:20.47 | Kalroth | goes to register www.farmfacegoats.com |
| 21:21.47 | Cide | yeah |
| 21:21.57 | Cide | I should make battlegoats into a facebook game |
| 21:22.01 | Cide | isn't that a great idea |
| 21:22.08 | Thunder_Child | die Cide |
| 21:22.14 | Kalroth | hahah |
| 21:22.54 | Kalroth | next Cide will join Zanga and think of the good old days where you worked on honorable games like Civilization and Alpha Centauri |
| 21:23.03 | Kalroth | oh wait, wrong developer |
| 21:23.37 | Thunder_Child | there needs to be an alpha centauri 2 |
| 21:23.58 | Thunder_Child | but at least there is a civ 5 coming out |
| 21:24.39 | Kalroth | Yeah, still half a year to go :(( |
| 21:24.44 | Thunder_Child | Cide: you live in nevada? |
| 21:24.54 | Cide | no, why? |
| 21:24.55 | Kalroth | Hell no |
| 21:24.58 | Cide | ts does |
| 21:24.59 | foxlit | What are they doing with the new Doctor Who series? |
| 21:25.12 | Kalroth | Cide is a jävla svensken |
| 21:25.30 | Thunder_Child | not sure if that is better or worse |
| 21:25.37 | Kalroth | Better |
| 21:25.49 | Thunder_Child | you might be a bit biased |
| 21:25.56 | Kalroth | Just a little. :) |
| 21:26.10 | Dagmar | foxlit: Making us all wait until bloody April |
| 21:26.25 | foxlit | But they're calling it "Series One"? Again? |
| 21:26.33 | Dagmar | Shouldn't be |
| 21:26.37 | Kalroth | foxlit: Think Star Wars! |
| 21:26.51 | theorbtwo | Interesting. The press around series one of the last relaunch very much did not. |
| 21:26.58 | theorbtwo | *Who* is calling it series one? |
| 21:27.05 | Kalroth | Who! |
| 21:27.10 | Dagmar | Probably people utterly unfamiliar with the storyline |
| 21:27.27 | Dagmar | Like, hello, we're just about to technically run out of regenerations |
| 21:28.08 | foxlit | I thought there was some story-sponsored bypass of that particular snag. |
| 21:28.24 | Dagmar | Not that I've seen--they just stopped mentioning it 20 years ago |
| 21:28.41 | Dagmar | I don't recall it being brought up since Tom Baker days |
| 21:28.51 | theorbtwo | I think Doctor Who has largely been continuity light, especially of late. |
| 21:29.10 | Dagmar | The Master is supposed to be _well_ past the 13th regen, but we just watched him do it a couple more times for giggles |
| 21:29.25 | Dagmar | IIRC it's part of the reason he's evil |
| 21:29.33 | theorbtwo | If they are going to handwave it, I expect they will wait until the last minute and then have it be heavily dum Dum DUM DUM! |
| 21:29.53 | theorbtwo | Dagmar: IIRC the Master was explicitly granted extra regens at some point. |
| 21:30.02 | Dagmar | Sorry, this is a series about a guy who travels through _time_ |
| 21:30.09 | Dagmar | "Continuity" is for people who can't keep up |
| 21:30.32 | tekkub | time travel shows are immune to continuity |
| 21:30.51 | tekkub | and the whole regen thing is just a mechanic to keep the show alive foh evar |
| 21:30.57 | Dagmar | Generally anything that looks like a continuity error makes sense before the end of hte next show, or by the end of the season |
| 21:31.03 | tekkub | actor dies? who cares, NEW GUY! |
| 21:32.00 | Thunder_Child | tekkub, you sound just a tad bitter |
| 21:32.08 | tekkub | bitter? |
| 21:32.10 | theorbtwo | Ah. The Five Doctors. |
| 21:32.18 | Thunder_Child | yes, bitter |
| 21:32.19 | tekkub | why you say that |
| 21:32.38 | Thunder_Child | because of your comments |
| 21:32.50 | tekkub | I was just pointing out hwo the show works... |
| 21:32.58 | tekkub | and why it'll probably never end |
| 21:33.12 | Dagmar | I don't think they've had an instance of the actor actually dying |
| 21:33.27 | theorbtwo | It already did, on several occasions. The show itself just went through a bit of a regeneration. |
| 21:33.39 | theorbtwo | At least once, in fact, they did it because it was too continuity-heavy. |
| 21:33.43 | Dagmar | Generally they run until they get tired of the job (Baker) or the audience gets tired of them (Baker's replacement, two episodes in) |
| 21:33.49 | tekkub | well the show never ended because of an acor dying, no |
| 21:34.00 | tekkub | but if they didn't have the char regen the show would be long over |
| 21:34.05 | Dagmar | Oh yeah |
| 21:34.10 | tekkub | the first doctor isn't alive anymore is he? |
| 21:34.19 | Dagmar | I've got a couple of episodes that I think were perhaps filmed on clay tablets |
| 21:34.20 | Fisker | stop being the bitch king, arthas :( |
| 21:34.43 | Dagmar | Some of the first AV stuff BBC did |
| 21:35.15 | Dagmar | tekkub: He's _long_ dead |
| 21:35.36 | tekkub | that's what I thought |
| 21:36.23 | Dagmar | 1966. |
| 21:36.51 | Dagmar | er sorry, that's when he stopped being hte Doctor. He died in '75 |
| 21:37.46 | *** join/#wowuidev NiLon (nilon@unaffiliated/nilon) |
| 21:40.29 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut |
| 21:40.49 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: You said that DKs are looking for slow/slow when DWing, but I've seen some stuff that says they want fast/fast? |
| 21:43.52 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (~smcn@c-174-52-173-217.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:53.16 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, that stuff is wrong. DK attacks are pretty much all "do a bonus x% weapon damage", which means you want a slow weapon |
| 21:53.44 | ZorbaTHut | Threat of Thassarian also "deals damage with your offhand weapon", which, again, is a single hit, thus slow is better |
| 21:54.05 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: Yeah, I sort of |
| 21:54.05 | ZorbaTHut | I don't know of any mechanics that would make fast weapons better for DKs. |
| 21:54.07 | DWSR | thought that, but meh. |
| 21:55.26 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut: I'm thinking of getting 2x http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37401 for starting |
| 21:55.40 | ZorbaTHut | no, that's a fast weapon, don't do that :P |
| 21:56.01 | foxlit | It has defense rating on it :/ |
| 21:56.03 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 21:56.07 | DWSR | Need ma defense cap. |
| 21:56.17 | ZorbaTHut | your threat is gonna be awful. |
| 21:56.48 | DWSR | yeah, but as long as I'm not getting killed every pull. |
| 21:57.02 | olafski | it's not that hard to get to the defcap as a DK oO |
| 21:57.20 | ZorbaTHut | seriously, by the time you get two of those, you could have gotten all the rest of your appropriate tanking gear and pass the def cap naturally |
| 21:57.29 | olafski | crafted blue tanking gear, +def runes on weapons and done |
| 21:57.34 | ZorbaTHut | yeah |
| 21:57.40 | DWSR | not crafting gear. :P |
| 21:57.47 | ZorbaTHut | if you really really need to, pick up the def trinket from reg HoL |
| 21:58.09 | olafski | so you want to farm heroic UP for that sword that never drops but not craft gear for 100g? :P |
| 21:58.25 | DWSR | olafski: Sword's dropped twice for me since yesterday. Only won it once. |
| 21:58.31 | olafski | nice :P |
| 21:58.36 | olafski | I did 15 runs on my warrior, still don't have it |
| 21:58.45 | olafski | odds of that are really low but still |
| 21:59.00 | DWSR | As an aside, it would seem that heroics are skewed to always drop gear of the polar opposite variety of the kind you're trying to get. |
| 21:59.10 | DWSR | I have see so much dps caster shit drop in heroics today it's unreal. |
| 21:59.18 | DWSR | And yet on my lock I was like "NEEDS MOAR GEAR" |
| 22:01.59 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@c-68-32-134-121.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 22:02.14 | DWSR | variety of the kind. |
| 22:02.26 | DWSR | Redundant statement of redundancy. |
| 22:03.09 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 22:04.45 | Thunder_Child | "Just $2 feeds a developer for up to 5 hours with a single can of Red Bull. It's a scientific fact." heh |
| 22:07.12 | DWSR | Where the hell are you that Red Bull is only $2? |
| 22:07.44 | Dagmar | Costco maybe |
| 22:10.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew_a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 22:12.20 | olafski | just buy knockoff redbull |
| 22:12.25 | olafski | it's 0.29 euro here |
| 22:13.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew-a (~Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 22:20.34 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 22:20.34 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 22:22.32 | *** join/#wowuidev skaalid (~skaalid@pdpc/supporter/active/skaalid) |
| 22:22.44 | Fisker | just take drugs found on the ground here |
| 22:22.45 | Fisker | it's free |
| 22:23.14 | Trela | o.o; |
| 22:27.33 | skaalid | hey,0 |
| 22:31.26 | Fisker | GO, CANADA, GO |
| 22:31.56 | skaalid | i have a question |
| 22:34.39 | skaalid | im unsure on how to install the iak kit |
| 22:38.13 | Shirik | no |
| 22:38.16 | Shirik | f canada |
| 22:38.41 | DWSR | ~failrik |
| 22:38.42 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 22:38.43 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+qq *!*@rikers.org *!ibot@*] by EDI |
| 22:38.51 | Shirik | .... |
| 22:38.55 | DWSR | ROFL |
| 22:39.03 | Cide | haha |
| 22:39.15 | Cide | gj EDI |
| 22:40.37 | Shirik | taking me forever to log into SSH... |
| 22:40.46 | DWSR | Taking me forever to log into your mom |
| 22:41.10 | Shirik | as Fisker would say |
| 22:41.11 | Shirik | le fu |
| 22:41.12 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (~ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 22:41.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 22:41.18 | Cide | fffffuuuuuu |
| 22:42.05 | Shirik | bleh |
| 22:42.09 | Shirik | purl's hostmask changed |
| 22:42.23 | *** mode/#wowuidev [-qq *!*@rikers.org *!ibot@*] by Shirik |
| 22:42.27 | Shirik | !reload |
| 22:42.28 | EDI | AI routines & configuration reloaded |
| 22:42.33 | Cide | did you whitelist it? |
| 22:42.41 | Shirik | yes |
| 22:42.44 | Cide | ~failrik |
| 22:42.45 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 22:42.47 | Cide | good |
| 22:44.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (~chatzilla@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 22:50.01 | foxlit | Colloquy doesn't even pick up on +q :/ |
| 22:51.08 | Shadowed | try Limechat foxlit |
| 22:52.01 | foxlit | Connects over SSL? |
| 22:52.14 | Shadowed | Should be able to, I just SOCKS proxy it thought |
| 22:52.18 | Shadowed | not on my Mac, can't check |
| 22:53.24 | foxlit | colloquy trac paints a dire picture |
| 22:53.50 | Fisker | finally |
| 22:53.52 | Fisker | bitchking down |
| 22:54.01 | Cide | months behind |
| 22:54.04 | Fisker | ^ |
| 22:54.05 | Fisker | ^^ |
| 22:54.12 | Cide | Fisker |
| 22:54.16 | Cide | your raid group is OLD |
| 22:56.09 | foxlit | http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b219/beau_justice/WoW_Stuffs/flower.jpg |
| 22:57.27 | Fisker | it's completely retarded Cide |
| 22:57.41 | Slackwise | I'm trying to :Hide() another addons frames without modifying that addons code--what event should I be hooking into? PLAYER_LOGIN doesn't seem to be working. :/ |
| 22:57.53 | Fisker | we had like 3 or 4 weeks with where we cleared to Sindragosa and didn't get to lich king |
| 22:58.04 | Fisker | and every time we tried to run 2 raids the second always failed |
| 23:01.46 | DWSR | Slackwise: PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD |
| 23:02.03 | Slackwise | DWSR: Hmm, I'll try that. |
| 23:03.03 | Fisker | btw Shadowed |
| 23:03.08 | Fisker | your unit auras suck |
| 23:03.08 | Shadowed | no Fisker |
| 23:03.24 | Fisker | they do |
| 23:03.41 | Fisker | if you have emphazised (or whatever you call them) some auras may stick out of the alotted area! |
| 23:03.42 | Fisker | :o |
| 23:06.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Zasurus (~IceChat7@78-105-174-15.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 23:08.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (~Lunessa@c-98-198-73-111.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 23:08.42 | Lunessa | Station |
| 23:09.05 | Zasurus | Hi all. Is there a way to work out if the player is inside or outside (as in if the minimap is showing a cave/building or not)? I have found that the event MINIMAP_UPDATE_ZOOM seems to fire when the change happens but can't tell what way they have gone? |
| 23:10.06 | Lunessa | I suppose you could check subzone text for places which are named, but that won't help you with non-unique places. |
| 23:11.04 | Zasurus | Yer would be a pain getting the name of every cave :-) |
| 23:13.13 | *** part/#wowuidev skaalid (~skaalid@pdpc/supporter/active/skaalid) |
| 23:13.38 | haste | you could always use not IsOutdoors() :) |
| 23:14.38 | Lunessa | haste Damn it, I was just looking for that. |
| 23:15.08 | Lunessa | reextracts the production interface data... |
| 23:16.37 | foxlit | There's also IsIndoors? |
| 23:17.05 | Lunessa | IsIndoors() & IsOutdoors() both exist. |
| 23:17.39 | Zasurus | lol damn |
| 23:17.48 | Zasurus | Thanks I will look at those! :-D |
| 23:18.43 | haste | there is :p ? |
| 23:19.41 | haste | goes back to playing audiosurf. |
| 23:20.40 | Fisker | hey haste |
| 23:20.44 | Fisker | i actually kinda like haste now |
| 23:20.47 | Fisker | even though i hate haste |
| 23:21.05 | Lunessa | ~Fisker ++ |
| 23:21.57 | Fisker | you're doing it wrong |
| 23:22.03 | Lunessa | On purpose. |
| 23:22.08 | Shirik | ~FiskerPlusPlus |
| 23:22.12 | Lunessa | to annoy you. |
| 23:24.57 | Fisker | i'm not annoyed |
| 23:25.02 | Fisker | since i don't want positive karma |
| 23:31.56 | Shirik | ~Fisker++ |
| 23:32.05 | Fisker | le fu |
| 23:38.53 | Shirik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEkF5o6KPNI |
| 23:38.55 | Shirik | extremely true |
| 23:40.06 | Shirik | rofl @ 3:07 |
| 23:47.43 | Fisker | 19 days Shirik |
| 23:47.49 | Shirik | 19 days |
| 23:48.18 | Fisker | 19 days |
| 23:52.07 | dolby | until the end? |
| 23:52.13 | Shadowed | of time? |
| 23:52.27 | zenzelezz | and space |
| 23:54.12 | Shirik | to the world of the mighty boosh? |
| 23:57.45 | Dagmar | Shirik: Yeah I'm with you on 3:07. The last edit war someone pointed me to it took almost 30 minutes to figure *W*T*F* they were arguing about |
| 23:58.20 | Shirik | lol |
| 23:58.35 | Shirik | I looked through the list, I know every single one of those acronyms :P |
| 23:58.47 | Dagmar | Someone should have just headered the page "F**king plagiarism" and been done with it |
| 23:58.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu| (~Sesshu@ip-214-16.travedsl.de) |
| 23:59.51 | DWSR | Which faction has the tanking head enchants? |
| 23:59.54 | DWSR | EB? |
