| 00:03.57 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:06.01 | *** join/#wowuidev ArrowmasterClass (n=arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 00:09.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 00:13.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller_ (n=Tuller@pool-72-84-246-12.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:14.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed| (n=outlaw@c-98-207-200-159.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:15.11 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=doingwha@unaffiliated/dwsr) |
| 00:15.18 | DWSR | Hey all, what do you guys think: http://hdimage.org/images/s7z0xr73iav25zkbn12q.jpg |
| 00:16.20 | Lopeppeppy | If it works for you, groovy. Myself, do not like. |
| 00:16.35 | DWSR | why no? |
| 00:16.42 | Hjalte | DWSR: Doesn't show anything |
| 00:16.53 | WobWork | very very thick unitframes |
| 00:16.59 | Hjalte | Oh. Had to reload in the browser. |
| 00:17.12 | WobWork | I find the top down ui a bit distracting |
| 00:17.13 | Lopeppeppy | HUGE unit frames. They make me cringe at how much space they take up. |
| 00:17.23 | DWSR | Yeah, I'm trying to get used to no HUD though |
| 00:17.31 | DWSR | So I figure I'll gradually be able to reduce them in size. |
| 00:17.36 | WobWork | I'd be ducking my head in an attempt to look 'under' them =) |
| 00:17.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (n=Shadowed@li89-205.members.linode.com) |
| 00:17.46 | DWSR | I tank for my guild in ToGC, so it's important IMO. |
| 00:18.11 | Lopeppeppy | If the UI works for you, our opinion don't mean a thing. |
| 00:18.34 | Hjalte | DWSR: I personally don't need a very thick mana bar. |
| 00:19.15 | DWSR | Lopeppeppy: Right, but that doesn't mean that you can't give good suggestions on what to change. |
| 00:19.16 | WobWork | eg, the pet bar is a lot bigger than I'd need |
| 00:19.33 | DWSR | WobWork: Again, I tank with it in some instances. |
| 00:20.23 | WobWork | when you do, do you do anything but heal it? |
| 00:20.23 | DWSR | I'm thinking of perhaps moving the UFs tight against the top panel. |
| 00:20.29 | DWSR | WobWork: Yes. |
| 00:20.34 | WobWork | I've never lock tanked before, so I don't know how it works exactly |
| 00:20.47 | DWSR | WobWork: Hold on to threat as best you can and pray. :) |
| 00:21.23 | DWSR | Mana bar suggestion is a good idea. |
| 00:22.08 | DWSR | Only thing that I'm seriously missing that I want is a threat bar, but PB's threat bar appears on the player frame, not the target frame. |
| 00:22.30 | DWSR | Which is not where I want it. |
| 00:24.53 | DWSR | WobWork: the other thing is that, the pet frame is so big because it makes a parallelogram when the pet is targetting something. |
| 00:24.56 | foxlit | models are boring. |
| 00:25.05 | foxlit | combat log is generally useless. |
| 00:25.06 | DWSR | That "missing" corner has the pet target frame. |
| 00:25.30 | foxlit | I'm not sure you actually need the entire pet bar. |
| 00:26.36 | WobWork | true on the combat log |
| 00:26.41 | WobWork | but what else to put there? =) |
| 00:26.47 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 00:27.07 | DWSR | And I do actually use the combat log fairly regularly for deaths and stuff |
| 00:27.25 | WobWork | to check reasons for death? |
| 00:27.29 | Lopeppeppy | But do you need to show it all the time? Or just open it when you have to check it? |
| 00:27.30 | foxlit | I could never set that up to work right. |
| 00:27.44 | WobWork | I just use recount for that |
| 00:27.50 | foxlit | In practice, recount's death log (or even more tightly specialized) addons work better. |
| 00:27.58 | foxlit | move the parenthesis right one word. |
| 00:28.43 | WobWork | In practice, recount's death log or (even more tightly specialized) addons work better? |
| 00:29.04 | Lopeppeppy | In practice, recounts death log (or even more tightly specialized addons) work better. |
| 00:29.06 | WobWork | =) |
| 00:29.30 | foxlit | So *end parenthesis, and change work to works. |
| 00:29.57 | foxlit | I'm not sure the stretched coolline across the bottom is that nice of a visual element. |
| 00:30.15 | foxlit | It seems too... wide to focus on, and the interesting corner is bottom right, which is the middle of nowhere. |
| 00:30.24 | DWSR | foxlit: It's just long duration buffs. |
| 00:30.30 | DWSR | Something I don't care to focus on anyway. |
| 00:30.38 | DWSR | Things like fort, kings, etc. |
| 00:30.55 | DWSR | I was hoping I could get SexyCooldown to actually display beyond 10 minutes. |
| 00:30.58 | DWSR | And do something like an hour. |
| 00:31.03 | foxlit | Replenisment, etc. |
| 00:31.04 | DWSR | Or even 30 minutes would be alright |
| 00:31.10 | foxlit | But anyway, that stuff is booring. |
| 00:31.17 | DWSR | foxlit: Replenishment is shown above the player frame. |
| 00:31.20 | foxlit | You probably do not need it, is my point. |
| 00:31.35 | foxlit | [I see the icon on the bottom line as well] |
| 00:31.46 | DWSR | Yeah, I changed that once I realized it. |
| 00:32.03 | ScytheBlade1 | real 7m44.399s |
| 00:32.04 | ScytheBlade1 | user 36m54.999s |
| 00:32.08 | ScytheBlade1 | not bad for a chrome build |
| 00:32.12 | ScytheBlade1 | 7m44s |
| 00:32.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 00:32.56 | foxlit | does that mean its low-priority, or does that mean it keeps requesting memory pages that aren't in physical memory? |
| 00:33.12 | ScytheBlade1 | It means I built it with -j9 |
| 00:33.39 | foxlit | What's a -j? |
| 00:33.44 | DWSR | LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL |
| 00:33.47 | foxlit | wait, processes? |
| 00:33.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Yup |
| 00:33.59 | DWSR | [/vgcats] |
| 00:34.37 | foxlit | hey, wait, why isn't that in my RSS inbox? |
| 00:34.46 | ScytheBlade1 | because the VGC RSS feed is terrible |
| 00:34.50 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 00:35.19 | DWSR | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ&feature=player_embedded <-- Every time I hear people complain about getting their hats in TF2 removed. |
| 00:35.20 | foxlit | I'm tempted to write some fetch-html-at-regular-intervals scripts for some comics |
| 00:35.36 | DWSR | foxlit: The VGC main comic hasn't been updated in like a month either. |
| 00:35.48 | foxlit | DWSR: Yeah, they're pretty slow. |
| 00:36.03 | DWSR | foxlit: That reference is to an older one, where Aeris aborts Leo from time. |
| 00:36.04 | foxlit | oct 4, sep 1, aug 12, july 29, july 8 |
| 00:36.09 | DWSR | lol yeah |
| 00:37.17 | DWSR | alrighty. |
| 00:37.25 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 00:37.25 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 00:37.30 | DWSR | I done shrunked the UFs. |
| 00:37.52 | DWSR | You're right, works a little better |
| 00:39.32 | foxlit | I tend to use around ~6 action buttons while raiding. |
| 00:40.26 | foxlit | Are you sure you want to show 21? :) |
| 00:40.49 | ZorbaBeta | man some DPS has it so easy |
| 00:40.51 | haste | DWSR: hats? tf2? removed? wat |
| 00:40.59 | ZorbaBeta | 6 buttons? I have more than 6 buttons in my basic rotation |
| 00:41.05 | Kraps | DWSR: thats an epic movie, much better than the depp onw |
| 00:41.07 | DWSR | haste: The idler deal. |
| 00:41.08 | foxlit | I'm not playing as dps. |
| 00:41.15 | haste | durr? |
| 00:41.17 | DWSR | ZorbaBeta: Yeah, destro's like that. |
| 00:41.24 | ZorbaBeta | alright, some classes then :P what are you, foxlit? |
| 00:41.25 | DWSR | Immo, Conflag, CB, INCIN TILL YOUR FACE HURTS. |
| 00:41.40 | DWSR | Oh, and CoD/CoE somewhere in there. |
| 00:41.41 | foxlit | In fact, I could probably do it with one on some encounters. |
| 00:41.50 | foxlit | REJUVENATING YOUR FACE. |
| 00:41.56 | foxlit | </silly> |
| 00:41.57 | DWSR | lol |
| 00:42.19 | foxlit | high-fives DWSR. You made that remark work. |
| 00:42.28 | ZorbaBeta | dwsr, yeah, and prot warrior is all shield slam, thunderclap, shockwave, concussion blow, devastate, revenge, heroic strike, cleave! oh wait debuffs and buffs, okay demo shout, battle shout, commanding shout. things are getting tight, shield block, enraged regeneration, shield wall, last stand, what's that time to use my trinkets MORE BUTANS |
| 00:42.42 | foxlit | But the point isn't so much that you just need six abilities, but rather than you can do with 6 buttons. |
| 00:42.59 | Lopeppeppy | Can you say, "macros", class? |
| 00:43.01 | DWSR | foxlit: Yeah, I used to have only 12 buttons and have bartender page on modifiers. |
| 00:43.13 | ZorbaBeta | lope, virtually none of prot warrior can be macroed usefully :( |
| 00:43.20 | Hjalte | ZorbaBeta: It's not that hard when most of the abilities have cooldowns or long-ish durations :) |
| 00:43.24 | DWSR | The only thing I have macro'ed is Illidan "You are not prepared" and Fel Dom + Feltard summon. |
| 00:43.52 | foxlit | My DKP has most of his abilities on one bar plus a couple of OPie rings for situational crap. |
| 00:44.02 | foxlit | s/P// |
| 00:44.08 | ZorbaBeta | hjalte, the longest cooldown in the standard rotation is 30 seconds, the buffs are 2 minutes before you start talenting them or glyphing them |
| 00:44.23 | ZorbaBeta | prot warriors just have a painful number of buttons to mash |
| 00:44.38 | Hjalte | ZorbaBeta: As a druid I have a lot of 6 second cooldowns for example, but it does make it a lot easier. |
| 00:45.25 | foxlit | I wouldn't put shouts, shield block/last stand or trinkets on action bars. |
| 00:46.13 | DWSR | As a lock, anything utility related (stones, demons) is all OPie'd. |
| 00:46.33 | DWSR | Everything else is on an action bar, plus a bunch of other macro shit just so I can have it keyboun |
| 00:46.43 | DWSR | Like swap'ing specs, summoning the circle, etc. |
| 00:46.53 | Lopeppeppy | you've hidden the keybound stuff, yes? |
| 00:47.05 | foxlit | summoning the circle belongs on an OPie ring attached to a mouse button, I think :) |
| 00:47.29 | DWSR | foxlit: I pvp a bit, I find it useful to have keybound so I can drop it as I'm running off a cliff. |
| 00:47.35 | DWSR | Just pause a half second, smash the bind, jump. |
| 00:47.41 | DWSR | Watch the retarded dk/paladin follow me. |
| 00:47.44 | DWSR | Port up. |
| 00:48.21 | foxlit | Mm. I think the latency hit for my use of those buttons is around a third of a second. |
| 00:48.39 | foxlit | Though perhaps everything counts :) |
| 00:48.50 | DWSR | Meh. |
| 00:48.57 | DWSR | There's an achievement for it. |
| 00:48.58 | DWSR | So it must be true |
| 00:49.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Ginji (n=Ginji@cc624207-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 00:50.13 | foxlit | I need to make something to shorten mob names |
| 00:50.28 | foxlit | "Koralon the Storm Watcher" -> "Koralon" etc |
| 00:50.44 | foxlit | (obviously, he's not the storm watcher, but it's late) |
| 00:50.47 | haste | what about mobs that have their name part at the end? |
| 00:50.54 | foxlit | That too. |
| 00:50.59 | haste | Big bad wolf |
| 00:51.02 | haste | Big bad dog |
| 00:51.04 | haste | etc |
| 00:51.15 | foxlit | The damned sunwell elves. |
| 00:51.47 | DWSR | Grammar checker. |
| 00:51.58 | foxlit | "Sunblade (Arch Mage|Blood Knight|Cabalist|Dawn Priest|Dragonhawk|Dusk Priest|...)" |
| 00:51.58 | DWSR | Find the adjectives in the phrase, strip them out. |
| 00:51.59 | DWSR | winnar. |
| 00:52.17 | foxlit | preferably to -> Arch Mage, Blood Knight, Cabalist... |
| 00:52.42 | foxlit | It's an interesting problem, which is probably why I still have no code to deal with it. |
| 00:53.03 | foxlit | You could observe multiple mobs with the same name prefix, then decide to drop that prefix. |
| 00:53.17 | DWSR | foxlit: I don't think there's any reliable way to do it other than to go through every mob in the game and determine what you want to drop. |
| 00:53.31 | DWSR | foxlit: And then what do you do about bosses? |
| 00:53.33 | foxlit | You could watch what you're fighting and ensure that distinct names are distinct. |
| 00:53.46 | Shirik | foxlit: Sounds like a perfect problem for a neural network |
| 00:53.49 | foxlit | DWSR: bosses such as? |
| 00:54.18 | DWSR | Koralon *the Flame Watcher*, Gothik *the Harvester* |
| 00:54.32 | foxlit | "the" is a pretty good hint in general. |
| 00:54.41 | DWSR | Whatever the twins are, strip them to *Darkbane* and *Lightbane* |
| 00:54.49 | DWSR | Or just *Dark* and *Light* |
| 00:55.04 | foxlit | I don't think you can do the latter algorithmically. |
| 00:55.05 | Shirik | stabs foxlit with a feedforward neural network |
| 00:55.15 | foxlit | Which rather defeats the point. |
| 00:55.37 | foxlit | Then again, "Rider of the Frost" "Rider of the Unholy" are cheaters. |
| 00:55.53 | foxlit | [perhaps because those are titles] |
| 00:56.27 | foxlit | "Heart of the Deconstructor" |
| 00:56.41 | foxlit | "Image of the Lich King" |
| 00:58.17 | Lopeppeppy | Gozer the Destructor! |
| 01:00.17 | foxlit | The 27-inch iMac makes for an monitor. |
| 01:01.30 | NightHawkTheSane | i think you dropped an adjactive |
| 01:01.37 | foxlit | ^interesting |
| 01:06.16 | AbsolutRayne | http://boingboing.net/2009/11/03/secret-copyright-tre.html Oh, well isnt this neat. :| |
| 01:08.16 | Lopeppeppy | If it's true, sure. |
| 01:08.32 | foxlit | Meh, who is going to ratify this crap? |
| 01:12.12 | ArrowmasterClass | the US..... |
| 01:13.12 | AbsolutRayne | The old dingbats on the Senate would be stupid enough. |
| 01:13.43 | foxlit | Isn't it the US that's writing most of the offensive parts of that treaty? |
| 01:13.54 | ArrowmasterClass | probably |
| 01:14.07 | ArrowmasterClass | more like the RIAA/MPAA are writting it |
| 01:14.09 | AbsolutRayne | Thats scary to read, though. If it is true. |
| 01:14.31 | Lopeppeppy | If. |
| 01:14.34 | Lopeppeppy | big old if. |
| 01:14.39 | Kraps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAB2iEvaMwE |
| 01:15.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (n=Yssaril@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:17.34 | ArrowmasterClass | international treaties are the only thing above the US constitution right? |
| 01:18.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 01:18.46 | DWSR | Thanks for the suggestions on the UI guys |
| 01:19.36 | DWSR | Almost done with a v2. |
| 01:20.50 | alestane | Above in what sense? |
| 01:21.27 | DWSR | BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER |
| 01:21.34 | Shirik | MentalPower: Ping |
| 01:21.36 | Shirik | Nechckn: ping |
| 01:21.40 | alestane | Um, sure. |
| 01:21.41 | Shirik | Esamynn|Away: ping |
| 01:21.44 | Lopeppeppy | as in, the us has to obey them above and beyond our own laws, if we sign them. |
| 01:21.46 | MentalPower | Shirik: pong |
| 01:21.59 | Shirik | I just got off the phone with Atlassian support and they just showed me something awesome |
| 01:22.02 | DWSR | Lopeppeppy: lol, can't they just invade the other country? |
| 01:22.02 | Shirik | which I figured I would pass on to you |
| 01:22.05 | Lopeppeppy | There is always wiggle room in politics, that's why it's politics. |
| 01:22.07 | MentalPower | oh? |
| 01:22.18 | alestane | Although our own constitution defines the procedures by which my can be bound by them. |
| 01:22.28 | Shirik | You can get a free t-shirt for this little contest they're running |
| 01:22.31 | alestane | by which we* |
| 01:22.36 | Shirik | http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/ATLAS/Here+Be+Dragons |
| 01:22.39 | Shirik | If you complete that :) |
| 01:22.43 | Shirik | Thought you might be interested |
| 01:23.20 | DWSR | That's neat. |
| 01:26.24 | MentalPower | Shirik: I read about that a little back, but what kills me is PostgreSQL, we already have fish and jira running on mysql, dunno if Postgre is a requirement or just a strong suggestion |
| 01:26.37 | Shirik | You have to use pgsql? |
| 01:26.44 | Shirik | Based on what I heard on the phone, they just ask for screenshots |
| 01:26.50 | DWSR | What's the # for the bottom trinket slot? |
| 01:26.52 | Shirik | they wouldn't be able to tell, so I think it's just advice |
| 01:26.52 | DWSR | 14? |
| 01:27.03 | MentalPower | crowd would also mean ditching vanilla for auth, which I'm not sure about |
| 01:27.15 | Shirik | yeah it was just something I thought was cool, just threw it your way :) |
| 01:27.23 | Shirik | There are good reasons to "don't fuck with it if it ain't broken" |
| 01:39.05 | *** join/#wowuidev |ckknight| (n=ckknight@c-68-62-175-169.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 01:44.36 | DWSR | is currently listening to |
| 01:44.39 | DWSR | hm. |
| 01:44.40 | DWSR | amip. |
| 01:44.42 | DWSR | She is the broked. |
| 01:45.08 | DWSR | np: Infected Mushroom - Artillery [04:28m/196kbps/44kHz] |
| 01:45.11 | DWSR | Ah, ther |
| 01:45.11 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo_ (n=gdbzet26@p4FEFD2BB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:45.13 | DWSR | e we go. |
| 01:45.20 | DWSR | Infect SHROOM. |
| 01:49.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko1 (n=Testing@adsl-068-159-119-207.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:49.37 | NeoTron | doesn't care what DWSR is currently listening to. |
| 01:49.43 | DWSR | spams more. |
| 01:49.44 | DWSR | is currently listening to |
| 01:49.48 | DWSR | sigh |
| 01:49.48 | NeoTron | ignores. |
| 01:49.51 | DWSR | np: Infected Mushroom - Vicious Delicious [07:24m/202kbps/44kHz] |
| 01:50.34 | ScytheBlade1 | any way to get chrome to export a page as a .png? |
| 01:52.06 | Lopeppeppy | Screenshot it and do it yourself? :P |
| 01:52.42 | ScytheBlade1 | It is 6 pages long :/ |
| 01:52.52 | DWSR | Print it as an XPS document. |
| 01:52.52 | Lopeppeppy | You want it, do the work. |
| 01:53.08 | ScytheBlade1 | Linux! |
| 01:53.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Also, I found a firefox extension that does it for me some time ago |
| 01:53.20 | ScytheBlade1 | I was just being hopeful |
| 01:53.23 | ScytheBlade1 | goes off searching |
| 01:55.56 | alestane | is still amused by Peppy Wrongnozzle. |
| 01:56.48 | AbsolutRayne | Define: Awkward |
| 01:58.17 | *** join/#wowuidev AbsolutRayne (n=chatzill@XPLR-MCI-74-127-239-29.barrettxplore.com) |
| 02:05.06 | DWSR | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ&feature=player_embedded Comments? |
| 02:05.54 | DWSR | err |
| 02:05.55 | DWSR | Sorry. |
| 02:06.45 | DWSR | http://hdimage.org/images/7etw2ilou38v76uvxi8.jpg Comments? |
| 02:07.27 | NightHawkTheSane | pizza burger! http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/pizzaburger.jpeg |
| 02:07.35 | Hjalte | DWSR: It is better than before. I guess the weird square is a portrait gone wrong? |
| 02:07.49 | DWSR | Dummy portaits don't work. |
| 02:07.53 | DWSR | So yes. |
| 02:08.10 | Lopeppeppy | Ah, I thought that was the minimap |
| 02:08.23 | Thunder_Child | DWSR, the CD bar on the bottom should be moved to the top or else you have vital info at both the extreme top and bottom |
| 02:08.24 | DWSR | MMap is top right |
| 02:08.36 | DWSR | Thunder_Child: CD bar at bottom is 1min+ CDs. |
| 02:08.43 | DWSR | So it's nothing vital *in combat*. |
| 02:08.52 | DWSR | Perhaps bumping it to 3mins for trinks though... |
| 02:09.08 | DWSR | good suggestion |
| 02:10.29 | DWSR | I'm waiting to be tweak the chat frames so I can push them all the way to the top of the screen |
| 02:10.45 | DWSR | foxlit pointed out that it causes mucho problems trying to move the tabs to anywhere else. |
| 02:12.10 | DWSR | Anything else that you can think of guys? |
| 02:13.10 | Hjalte | DWSR: You sure you prefer a solid background instead of a dark transparent one? I like being able to see more of what happens around me. |
| 02:13.21 | NeoTron | so killed heroic 10 man Anub last night for the first time. Had 47 tries left - almost got it with 50 left. was so close |
| 02:13.27 | DWSR | Hjalte: Viewport. I'm not missing anything |
| 02:13.53 | Hjalte | NeoTron: Always seems to be some idiot messing with your triez |
| 02:14.39 | Hjalte | We are bringing recruits to get them 245 gear (2 groups), but it does mean we rarely get a group with 50 tries left. Sometimes we do 45, sometimes we do even worse. |
| 02:15.54 | Thunder_Child | bah, each spec should have it's own relearning cost |
| 02:16.12 | Hjalte | DWSR: What nameplate addon are you using? |
| 02:16.17 | NeoTron | I returned very recently and think this was my 3rd time there period |
| 02:16.29 | NeoTron | and we go at most 2.5h per week so I'm ok woth it |
| 02:16.40 | Thunder_Child | Hjalte, the sizing and the nameplates are 2 different things |
| 02:16.42 | DWSR | Hjalte: Aloft. |
| 02:16.56 | Hjalte | What addon does the sizing then? |
| 02:17.00 | DWSR | VirtualPlates. |
| 02:17.54 | DWSR | Scales the nameplates based on distance to the camera. |
| 02:18.18 | DWSR | The depth scaling is really nice atm, with nameplates not overlapping. |
| 02:18.39 | DWSR | So wtf @ outfitter. |
| 02:18.46 | DWSR | Optimzing my gear for hit capped spell power? |
| 02:18.53 | DWSR | It has to go through 10 million permutations? |
| 02:19.06 | haste | DWSR: your nameplates, they all have a spacing at the bottom! |
| 02:19.26 | DWSR | haste: Yes, I find the default spacing is a litle too close to the top of people's heads. |
| 02:19.45 | haste | wrong! between the statusbar and the backdrop |
| 02:19.57 | DWSR | what backdrop? ;) |
| 02:20.00 | haste | you also seem to have some screen tearing! |
| 02:20.05 | haste | on the nameplates |
| 02:20.20 | haste | and it looks like utter shit on your spell timer :p |
| 02:20.29 | DWSR | Screen tearing where? |
| 02:20.39 | Kraps | Bornakk: The realms were not running fine, stop being wrong. |
| 02:20.42 | DWSR | Oh, that's the dummy portrait. Full body doesn't display property. |
| 02:21.28 | DWSR | All the NPCs that I've tried and any players work fine. |
| 02:21.53 | haste | oh well, glad I'm not using your UI :D |
| 02:22.17 | DWSR | Thanks. =\ |
| 02:22.53 | haste | your welcome :) |
| 02:22.59 | Hjalte | haste: Let's see yours ;) |
| 02:23.17 | haste | mine looks the same as it did! |
| 02:26.03 | DWSR | haste: Thanks for pointing out the gap in the nameplates, btw. |
| 02:26.07 | DWSR | haste: Fixed that |
| 02:27.03 | haste | now you just need to get a new backdrop :D |
| 02:27.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Cloudwolf (n=chatzill@c-71-227-249-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 02:27.51 | DWSR | haste: find me a sunnart pack with a backdrop that doesn't suck and I'll gladly switch. |
| 02:27.56 | DWSR | Even I think the backdrop's a bit fail. |
| 02:28.13 | haste | meh, just make your own :p |
| 02:28.23 | haste | or use none :D |
| 02:29.32 | DWSR | Would be pretty ugly without one. |
| 02:30.09 | Lopeppeppy | Make your own artwork, DWSR. SunnArt isn't the end of the story. |
| 02:30.52 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR2 (n=doingwha@24.114.252.244) |
| 02:31.07 | DWSR | Lopeppeppy: I'm colour blind. |
| 02:31.13 | DWSR | Music I can do, visual art I can't. |
| 02:34.13 | Lopeppeppy | You can still use hex codes, as I understand the use of kg panels, but whatever floats your boat best, it's your UI. |
| 02:34.35 | Shirik | I'm sending out an email to my students |
| 02:34.39 | DWSR | Lopeppeppy: I could just as easily use the solid colour option in sa |
| 02:34.39 | Shirik | On the 3rd of December, you will come to the lab to drop off your project and will be free to leave and celebrate (how you go about celebrating is neither my concern nor likely to be something I can discuss in a public email). |
| 02:34.43 | Shirik | Is that last part too much? |
| 02:34.56 | DWSR | no |
| 02:35.05 | cog|away | DKs: is heart strike meant as a replacement for blood strike? the effects seem too similar to bother trying to pick them strategically... |
| 02:36.16 | Codayus | cog|away: Mostly, but not entirely. There are a very small number of cases where you still use blood strike. |
| 02:37.07 | Legorol | cog|away: heart strike is strictly superior than blood strike |
| 02:37.11 | Legorol | it's supposed to replace it completely |
| 02:37.21 | Codayus | But as a general rule, yes, it's a straight up replacement. |
| 02:38.03 | Legorol | i guess BS could work out better if you are naked and using a toothpick for a weapon |
| 02:40.28 | Twisol | I have absolutely no idea what I want to do next with WoW scripting. :( |
| 02:40.44 | DWSR | figure out how to move the chat frame tabs from the top of the frame to the bottom |
| 02:40.54 | Twisol | hah. |
| 02:41.00 | DWSR | properly. |
| 02:41.02 | Twisol | heard you talking about that before |
| 02:41.05 | Twisol | sounds complicated. ^_^ |
| 02:41.15 | DWSR | lol, foxlit said it wasn't super complicated |
| 02:41.25 | DWSR | A bit of working, but probably not too bad |
| 02:42.25 | ZorbaBeta | heart strike is pretty terrible for faction champs. I suppose in any situation where you want to avoid AOE you'd be using blood strike instead. |
| 02:43.14 | kd3 | ponders at the newly-added 8th level map to icecrown citadel |
| 02:43.26 | kd3 | http://www.wowwiki.com/Icecrown_Citadel_%28instance%29#Zone_map |
| 02:45.05 | haste | wonders how the build 10554 maps looked. |
| 02:48.17 | cog|away | Codayus: Legorol ty |
| 02:51.50 | Shirik | mr cog|away |
| 02:55.59 | kd3 | haste; click on the thumbnails and you can see the history of every version I've uploaded |
| 02:56.38 | cog|away | mr Shirik |
| 02:56.50 | Shirik | how are you mr cog|away |
| 02:57.00 | cog|away | how are your mr Shirik |
| 02:57.05 | cog|away | fails |
| 02:57.08 | Shirik | you didn't answer :( |
| 02:57.12 | cog|away | i'm fail-y. how are you? |
| 02:57.41 | Shirik | I'm tired |
| 02:57.55 | Shirik | omg, has anyone seen the trailer for this movie "Planet 51"? |
| 02:58.00 | Shirik | It looks hilarious |
| 02:58.11 | cog|away | aways |
| 02:59.42 | Shirik | lies |
| 02:59.46 | Shirik | it's like a Cairenn away |
| 02:59.51 | Shirik | not really away just saying to be away |
| 03:00.04 | Cairenn | :) |
| 03:00.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:00.22 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 03:00.24 | Shirik | see, she doesn't deny it |
| 03:00.27 | Shirik | hey Iriel |
| 03:00.40 | Cairenn | I have to keep you guys guessing, my mysterious ways are part of my allure |
| 03:00.45 | Iriel | lo |
| 03:00.54 | Shirik | I got a response from my professor, but it's not very useful yet :) At least it wasn't something stupid we were missing |
| 03:00.56 | Cairenn | hey Iriel |
| 03:01.08 | Shirik | First, it's very refreshing to check my e-mail at 5:00 am and find a student asking questions about last night's lecture. Thank you. |
| 03:01.08 | Shirik | Second, this seems interesting and from spending 10 minutes on it I have no idea why it fails. I promise I will dig deeper into it once I have more time in the next couple of days. |
| 03:01.11 | Iriel | Cairenn: hola. |
| 03:01.11 | Shirik | That's the response I got |
| 03:01.27 | Iriel | Shirik: Heh, nice 8-) |
| 03:02.10 | kd3 | wimmenz? mysterious? inconceivable |
| 03:03.03 | Cairenn | winks at kd3 |
| 03:04.19 | alestane | What do you actually need allure for, anyway? |
| 03:04.32 | alestane | Or is that a *really* stupid question? |
| 03:05.16 | Cairenn | ^^ |
| 03:05.21 | Cairenn | ;) |
| 03:05.58 | Hjalte | No-one answered in #wowace. Does anyone have any comments on http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/crashproofer.aspx ? It could be interesting if I crash while logging DKP. |
| 03:08.06 | Thunder_Child | all of the addon data is copied to everyone else using this in your guild? |
| 03:08.12 | Thunder_Child | in all addons? |
| 03:08.15 | haste | ouch |
| 03:08.25 | haste | that sounds... horrible |
| 03:09.21 | Hjalte | That was my worry, it seems like a lot of data to send between guildies |
| 03:09.30 | Hjalte | I don't know exactly how it works |
| 03:09.36 | kd3 | and uh... very addonchannel spammy |
| 03:09.44 | Shirik | sounds like something that should be a library |
| 03:09.46 | haste | I'm to uninterested to check how it works |
| 03:09.58 | Shirik | not a "install this and I will MAKE EVERYTHING GODLIKE LIKE SHIRIK'S UT SKILLS" |
| 03:10.11 | kd3 | you mean like ace? |
| 03:10.15 | Shirik | yes |
| 03:10.22 | NightHawkTheSane | there's a mod that will make me godlike like your ut skills? |
| 03:10.30 | Shirik | almost |
| 03:10.33 | Thunder_Child | so...not godlike at all then NightHawkTheSane |
| 03:10.38 | Shirik | nothing can reach my skills |
| 03:10.41 | Shirik | but you can come close |
| 03:10.55 | Thunder_Child | w/e Shirik, UT is so easy to master |
| 03:11.03 | Shirik | lol I don't really play UT |
| 03:11.08 | NightHawkTheSane | Thunder_Child: no comment. :) |
| 03:11.31 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSane, it's not exactly a complex game |
| 03:16.13 | Shirik | tackles Seerah |
| 03:16.25 | NightHawkTheSane | *sigh* |
| 03:16.36 | Seerah | tickles Shirik |
| 03:16.46 | NightHawkTheSane | i dont mind people gaming with their SOs. but for the love of god, make them not be idiots |
| 03:21.23 | Arrowmaster | Thunder_Child: are you referring to UT 1v1 being easy to master? |
| 03:22.42 | Arrowmaster | ive meet and played against some of the top guys in the ut2k4 1v1 tournys a few years ago, those guys are on a totally different level than most people |
| 03:22.56 | Arrowmaster | also heard many stories of how much of a douche fatality is |
| 03:23.09 | ccox | Shirik - congrats on regognizing healbot fiinally, but I don't think the official name is "sharedmedia additional fonts" |
| 03:23.20 | Shirik | ? |
| 03:24.22 | Thunder_Child | Arrowmaster, there are 2 things you play when you play a multiplayer game. you play the game as well as the person on the other side. mastering the game makes you good, mastering the person on the other side makes you great. i said UT is easy to master, and it is, people are hard |
| 03:24.37 | Thunder_Child | harder* |
| 03:24.50 | Arrowmaster | mastering the game the way those guys have is hard imho |
| 03:25.34 | Shirik | "people are hard" |
| 03:25.34 | Shirik | lol |
| 03:26.03 | Arrowmaster | they have every map memorized including every single item pickup and can tell exactly where you are on the map by the sound of the item pickups, they even fuck with each other by throwing down their weapons and picking them back up to make the other person think they are somewhere else |
| 03:27.00 | Shirik | wtf >< |
| 03:27.39 | Arrowmaster | my girlfriend went up against dawgpound in the first round of a 64 slot ut2k4 1v1, i think i made it to the 2nd round |
| 03:29.48 | Arrowmaster | WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 03:29.48 | Shirik | I'm curious, anyone Java-experienced know if you can create static methods in an interface in Java? |
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| 03:30.41 | Iriel | Shirik: You can't |
| 03:30.41 | kd3 | yay split |
| 03:30.41 | Iriel | Shirik: I wish you could. |
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| 03:31.25 | Shirik | is there a reason? |
| 03:31.25 | kd3 | wonders where the wallop message is |
| 03:31.25 | Shirik | Yeah I just came across a need to in C++, and I'm debating whether it's poor design or if it's just another one of those things Java doesn't like just because |
| 03:31.25 | Shirik | kd3: Tell me if you get one. I've been wondering if my bouncer is not forwarding wallops because I haven't been getting any |
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| 03:32.13 | ZorbaBeta | shirik, what's the subject re: C++? (was netsplit, sigh) |
| 03:32.13 | Shirik | nothing about C++ |
| 03:32.13 | Twisol | bad netsplit |
| 03:32.13 | ZorbaBeta | well, re: some programming thing you need to do |
| 03:32.13 | Shirik | I just asked in Java if you were allowed to make static methods in Java |
| 03:32.13 | Shirik | er |
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| 03:32.13 | Shirik | static methods in interfaces |
| 03:32.13 | Twisol | don't think so |
| 03:32.13 | Shirik | it's already been answered :P |
| 03:32.14 | Shirik | though I guess some of you missed that |
| 03:32.38 | ZorbaBeta | yeah I'm betting on "java doesn't like just because" :P |
| 03:32.59 | Iriel | Hm, guess my debian netinst image isn't going to get very far with a machine with no network cable |
| 03:33.32 | Arrowmaster | the business card or 100+ MB image? |
| 03:33.40 | kd3 | connect it with "wireless cables" like my boss suggested today? |
| 03:33.46 | Shirik | lol |
| 03:34.05 | Arrowmaster | you might be able to do a bare install without the network if you unselect everything in tasksel if its the larger one |
| 03:34.09 | Iriel | Arrowmaster: I prefer to use the 160MB one. |
| 03:34.27 | Iriel | Arrowmaster: I just plugged it in, it was just my stupidity that I started the install without doing so |
| 03:34.30 | Arrowmaster | that means unselecting even 'base system' |
| 03:34.44 | Arrowmaster | oh |
| 03:34.45 | Cairenn | Seerah: awwwwwww |
| 03:34.51 | Cairenn | Seerah: :`( |
| 03:35.01 | Seerah | I know! hubby said "kids aren't supposed to do that..." |
| 03:36.32 | Cairenn | wow, need the kleenex box |
| 03:38.01 | Shirik | Seerah: ? |
| 03:38.05 | Shirik | Did I miss something during the split? |
| 03:38.16 | Legorol | i'm wondering the same |
| 03:38.17 | Seerah | see my fb |
| 03:38.18 | Shirik | don't make me check Shiibot's logs |
| 03:38.21 | Shirik | oh |
| 03:38.22 | Cairenn | http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/04/6-year-old-girl-with-brain-cancer-hid-love-notes-for-her-parents-to-find-after-her-death/ |
| 03:38.31 | Shirik | you're going to make me log on to facebook |
| 03:38.34 | Seerah | thanks, Cairenn :) |
| 03:38.35 | Cairenn | no |
| 03:38.42 | Cairenn | you can use the link I just posted :) |
| 03:38.44 | Cairenn | you're welcome Seerah |
| 03:39.02 | Shirik | wow |
| 03:39.08 | Shirik | that's.... |
| 03:39.21 | Cairenn | hands Shirik the kleenexes |
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| 03:41.52 | Legorol | blinks |
| 03:41.55 | Legorol | blinks some more, rapidly |
| 03:41.58 | Legorol | yes tears |
| 03:42.01 | Cairenn | yeah |
| 03:48.21 | NightHawkTheSane | Thunder_Child: no, but watching someone's SO, who's a hunter, take a melee trinket, over guildies who need it.. /cry. >< |
| 03:49.12 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSane, i dont remember being part of that conversation |
| 03:49.20 | Shirik | How to know a company has completely infested and/or brainwashed you |
| 03:49.43 | Shirik | Every time you create a new class, you instinctively write "namespace <name of company> {" and then delete it |
| 03:49.50 | NightHawkTheSane | Thunder_Child: regarding it not being a complex game. i didn't mention the loot bit, as i was in hte middle of raiding. :P |
| 03:50.20 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSane, are we talking about the same game? |
| 03:51.18 | NightHawkTheSane | >.> you know, probably not, i think i misread the chat log |
| 03:51.28 | NightHawkTheSane | sighs and wanders back to wow |
| 03:51.31 | NightHawkTheSane | apologies :) |
| 03:52.10 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSane, no worries, just confused |
| 03:52.25 | NightHawkTheSane | me too, apparently. :) |
| 04:22.51 | cog|away | Shirik: told u i wuz uhwei |
| 04:23.02 | Shirik | u lai |
| 04:23.43 | cogwheel | we've got a season and a half of nip/tuck to catch up on with my sister and there's already 5 episodes of the new one on our dvr :P |
| 04:26.15 | kd3 | whee; blowing up microwaves with c-4 |
| 04:28.32 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 04:28.34 | Cairenn | kd3: I wanna play! |
| 04:28.46 | kd3 | go watch mythbusters? |
| 04:28.50 | Cairenn | bah |
| 04:28.52 | kd3 | they're also pouring water on grease fires |
| 04:36.44 | Cairenn | fun fun :) |
| 04:44.30 | Shirik | has C4 |
| 04:44.50 | Shirik | Mostly C4-2s |
| 04:45.01 | Shirik | loves how model rocket engines fit perfectly with explosives |
| 04:48.03 | Seerah | nice... the thread that got Covenant temp-banned from the UI & Macros forum was deleted |
| 04:48.08 | Arrowmaster | they are explosives |
| 04:48.43 | Arrowmaster | i wonder where all my rocket engines are |
| 04:49.05 | *** join/#wowuidev smoke__ (n=smoke@adsl-75-63-188-18.dsl.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:49.16 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: But the code is not the same except for coincidence |
| 04:49.32 | Arrowmaster | i built something that took D's but i dont think i ever used it |
| 04:49.39 | Shirik | C-4 stands for "Composition 4" |
| 04:50.28 | Hjalte | I am getting tempted at something like WebDKP for managing the dkp of my guild, but I want it on my own server. Any alternatives to EQDKP? - I'm not that satisfied with Headcount + EQDKP. |
| 04:50.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu| (n=Sesshu@ip-204-18.travedsl.de) |
| 04:50.30 | Shirik | C4 means 10N, over 10/4 s |
| 04:51.48 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: I touched Gs once |
| 04:51.49 | Shirik | Just once |
| 04:52.00 | Shirik | that was some crazy shit |
| 04:52.22 | Shirik | Fun stuff comes out of going to an aeronautical university |
| 04:52.26 | Arrowmaster | oh wait no i think i had a few D's and built something that used larger but never used it |
| 04:52.36 | Arrowmaster | oh you did this at university? |
| 04:52.44 | Arrowmaster | i did it when i was like 10 |
| 04:52.46 | Shirik | the Cs was in elementary school >.> |
| 04:52.53 | Shirik | the Gs were at the university |
| 04:52.55 | Shirik | considering a G is what |
| 04:53.02 | Shirik | 2^4 times as powerful? |
| 04:53.14 | Shirik | or is it 10^4 |
| 04:53.15 | Shirik | I forget |
| 04:53.35 | Arrowmaster | i dont know i was too young and didnt care about the math |
| 04:53.46 | Shirik | I think it's 2^4 |
| 04:53.50 | Shirik | I know our school has some Ks too |
| 04:53.56 | Shirik | but mostly they do custom propulsion now |
| 04:54.15 | Shirik | that was for some freshman project |
| 04:57.55 | Shirik | I could totally see Arrowmaster in elementary school shooting off rockets |
| 04:58.00 | Shirik | he probably aimed them at planes |
| 04:58.11 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 05:00.22 | Shirik | no? |
| 05:00.42 | Thunder_Child | "In the upcoming patch we are adding a new feature to the Icecrown raid instance that allows the raid leader to change the instance's difficulty setting on a boss per boss basis." |
| 05:00.57 | Seerah | o.O |
| 05:08.36 | Thunder_Child | A little boy got lost at the YMCA and found himself in the women's locker room. When he was spotted, the room burst into shrieks, with ladies grabbing towels and running for cover. The little boy watched in amazement and then asked, 'What's the matter, haven't you ever seen a little boy before?'" |
| 05:08.54 | Seerah | hehehe |
| 05:09.03 | Twisol | XD |
| 05:09.04 | Shirik | !g c2594 |
| 05:09.05 | batbot | Shirik: Compiler Error C2594 (C++) <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/5xata8be(VS.71).aspx> |
| 05:09.21 | Shirik | cogwheel, I blame you for that |
| 05:10.40 | Thunder_Child | "On the first day of school, a first-grader handed his teacher a note from his mother. The note read, 'The opinions expressed by this child are not necessarily those of his parents .'" |
| 05:10.47 | Twisol | rofl. |
| 05:11.07 | cogwheel | Shirik: O.o |
| 05:11.23 | Shirik | error C2594: 'argument' : ambiguous conversions from 'IDEA::Database::CSelectQuery' to 'IDEA::Database::IQuery &' |
| 05:11.33 | Shirik | CSelectQuery is derived from IQuery |
| 05:11.56 | cogwheel | i mean i understand, i just don't understand why one cast works and the other doesn't... |
| 05:12.05 | Shirik | maybe I'm missing a virtual inheritance somewhere |
| 05:12.17 | Shirik | I need my books which I left at school :( |
| 05:12.55 | Thunder_Child | ~qq Shirik |
| 05:12.56 | purl | CRY MOAR Shirik |
| 05:13.40 | Kraps | yankees win |
| 05:14.03 | Shirik | oh you're referring to the example, cogwheel? |
| 05:14.11 | cogwheel | seems like both should be ambiguous since it's not virtual inheritance, unless i'm missing something (which is 95% likely, given C++) |
| 05:16.59 | Shirik | I think reinterpret_cast is always legal |
| 05:17.02 | Shirik | because |
| 05:17.04 | Shirik | it just reinterprets it |
| 05:17.12 | Shirik | it may not be useful, but it's legal |
| 05:17.17 | Shirik | it's like casting through void* |
| 05:17.37 | Shirik | This is interesting though: http://codepad.org/uewKGzqa |
| 05:17.39 | Shirik | and static_cast works |
| 05:18.17 | Seerah | grrr.... ptr installer keeps saying I don't have wow installed |
| 05:18.23 | Shirik | nm, static_cast doesn't work |
| 05:18.30 | Shirik | It only failed once I removed the virtual inheritance |
| 05:20.05 | Shirik | yup, one of the base classes was missing a virtual inheritance |
| 05:20.06 | Shirik | gah |
| 05:20.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Arcalyth (n=arcalyth@c-24-11-8-47.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 05:22.38 | Seerah | bah, I give up tonight :p |
| 05:24.58 | Shirik | noo |
| 05:25.00 | Shirik | Seerah :( |
| 05:25.02 | Shirik | don't give up :( |
| 05:25.11 | Shirik | never give up, never surrender |
| 05:25.23 | Cairenn | huggles Seerah |
| 05:25.29 | Cairenn | huggles Shirik too |
| 05:26.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Norsken (n=xkxaxn@84-217-2-232.tn.glocalnet.net) |
| 05:27.30 | Seerah | huggles Cairenn |
| 05:27.37 | Twisol | humm... do I need to buy glyphs from the AH, or is there a vendor for them? |
| 05:27.41 | Seerah | Shirik: but... but... my ptr won't install! |
| 05:27.50 | Shirik | :( |
| 05:27.56 | Shirik | huggles Seerah |
| 05:32.18 | Seerah | night all |
| 05:32.26 | Cairenn | night Seerah |
| 05:32.33 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 05:34.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 05:34.31 | Lunessa | Station |
| 05:34.53 | cogwheel | ohai |
| 05:35.02 | Lunessa | hai2u |
| 05:35.29 | mikma_ | gas |
| 05:35.44 | Lunessa | mikma_: too slow |
| 05:35.57 | mikma_ | care |
| 05:40.44 | Adys | jnwhiteh: http://wowprogramming.com/docs/scripts/OnHyperlinkEnter |
| 06:03.31 | Yssaril | anyone know of a tga to blp converter? |
| 06:04.20 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info6127-BLP2PNG.html if it still works |
| 06:04.32 | *** join/#wowuidev networkerror (n=evonder@adsl-71-131-178-152.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 06:05.28 | Cairenn | but most don't bother converting back to blp |
| 06:05.38 | Cairenn | the game reads .tga just fine |
| 06:07.33 | Yssaril | thanks Cairenn will try that |
| 06:07.39 | Cairenn | you're welcome |
| 06:07.40 | Shirik | o.o |
| 06:07.49 | Shirik | Cairenn just gave sound, technical advice |
| 06:08.40 | Cairenn | shhh! you're gonna ruin my rep! |
| 06:08.46 | Shirik | :D |
| 06:08.59 | Shirik | I think Cairenn actually is a programming goddess, with more skill than Iriel |
| 06:09.05 | Shirik | she just refuses to show it |
| 06:09.05 | Cairenn | NOT |
| 06:09.07 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 06:10.40 | Lunessa | Well, she's certainly competent at whatever she decides to do... but she rocks a pair of boots way better than Iriel. |
| 06:10.55 | Cairenn | blushes furiously |
| 06:10.56 | Thunder_Child | have you seen Iriel in a pair of boots? |
| 06:11.18 | Lunessa | I can neither confirm nor deny US involvement in such matters |
| 06:11.29 | Cairenn | somehow I just don't see Iriel rocking a pair of 5" stilettos |
| 06:11.53 | Lunessa | The he certainly can't do it better than you. Ahem. |
| 06:12.01 | Thunder_Child | you dont know that for sure is my point |
| 06:12.31 | Thunder_Child | http://us.blizzard.com/store/details.xml?id=1100000762 that is a surprisingly cute undead kitty |
| 06:13.06 | Lunessa | Perhaps my judgment is biased. I mean, I am filtering through my preconceived notions of "rocking" |
| 06:14.02 | Thunder_Child | well concidering our guess of how often Iriel wears 5" stiletto boots he may indeed "rock" them |
| 06:14.50 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 06:16.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc (n=Antiarc@wsip-70-167-195-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 06:18.11 | Lunessa | So, what are we going to do tonight, Brain? |
| 06:18.44 | Shirik | Lunessa, I spent all this time on the phone with Atlassian support today, trying to figure out why my server's broke |
| 06:19.08 | Shirik | Went through all the configuration files, everything looked good |
| 06:19.09 | Lunessa | PEBKAC? |
| 06:19.10 | Thunder_Child | Lunessa, Shirik makes a horrid brain |
| 06:19.25 | Shirik | found out, my ISP banned the server it's supposed to communicate with |
| 06:19.35 | Lunessa | L-O-L |
| 06:20.00 | cogwheel | why do I have such strong schadenfreude over pics of broken iphones? |
| 06:20.14 | Shirik | schadenfreude? |
| 06:20.22 | Shirik | Lunessa: I thought you might like that, you do support don't you? |
| 06:20.22 | cogwheel | ~google schadenfreude |
| 06:20.39 | cogwheel | !google schadenfreude |
| 06:20.39 | Shirik | or is that the peppy |
| 06:20.39 | batbot | cogwheel: Schadenfreude - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude> |
| 06:20.45 | Thunder_Child | just dict it |
| 06:20.55 | cogwheel | ~dict schadenfreude |
| 06:21.13 | cogwheel | ~botsnack |
| 06:21.13 | purl | cogwheel: thanks |
| 06:21.19 | Lunessa | Shirik: As one of my myriad duties, yes. |
| 06:21.26 | Thunder_Child | uh Shirik, 80% of the people in here are like that |
| 06:21.46 | Lunessa | The Peppy does web work and support. I do tech docs, sys admin and support |
| 06:22.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 06:22.58 | Fisker | rage |
| 06:23.10 | cogwheel | mana |
| 06:23.19 | cogwheel | runic power |
| 06:23.23 | cogwheel | energy |
| 06:23.30 | Thunder_Child | Fisker |
| 06:23.30 | cogwheel | focus |
| 06:23.48 | Fisker | no cogwheel |
| 06:25.01 | Fisker | slaps cog|sleep around a bit with a large trout |
| 06:25.35 | Fisker | ses på grillen Dotted |
| 06:27.51 | Shirik | Fisker is a cespool |
| 06:28.56 | Thunder_Child | somehow i have the feeling that peppy would enjoy this http://www.woot.com/ |
| 06:29.25 | Twisol | is it possible to determine whether a player has colorblind mode set? |
| 06:31.33 | NightHawkTheSane | i imagine there's a cvar? |
| 06:32.10 | Twisol | tried printing the value of colorblindMode |
| 06:32.16 | Twisol | prints 'nil' whether or not I have it checked |
| 06:36.21 | Twisol | can't seem to figure it out, heh |
| 06:37.46 | Shirik | Thunder_Child: Totally agree |
| 06:38.04 | Shirik | Twisol: colorblindMode is not a variable |
| 06:38.14 | Shirik | wait, where are you getting that from |
| 06:38.42 | Shirik | what exactly did you type |
| 06:39.43 | Twisol | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/cvars |
| 06:39.54 | Twisol | mentions colorblindMode |
| 06:40.03 | Twisol | as for what I typed: /script print(colorblindMode) |
| 06:40.10 | Twisol | just shows nil |
| 06:40.31 | Yssaril | Twisol: its a cvar not a variable |
| 06:40.51 | Yssaril | as suche you have to access it withe GetCVar("colorblindMode") |
| 06:40.53 | Twisol | ok, how do I access those? some function or table? |
| 06:40.53 | Twisol | ahhh |
| 06:41.15 | Twisol | there we go. Thanks. |
| 06:42.17 | NightHawkTheSane | *sigh* blizzad is out to make my life miserable, with these damn mounts.. |
| 06:42.52 | Yssaril | what did they do? |
| 06:44.09 | NightHawkTheSane | the lack of an api to determine mount speed, and the number of adaptable mounts (that only scale up to 280%), and 310% mounts that aren't labeled as such.. |
| 06:44.37 | Yssaril | lol what are you trying to do? |
| 06:45.01 | Twisol | related but off-topic question: is it possible to determine how fast you're going? |
| 06:45.08 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: Have a shcmoke and a pancake. |
| 06:45.28 | NightHawkTheSane | oh, just keep my addon working. :P i had a hell of a time getting it to merge 310% & 280% mounts. >< |
| 06:45.37 | NightHawkTheSane | Twisol: yes, there's api methods |
| 06:45.50 | Yssaril | which addon? |
| 06:46.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Twisol: check out basicAttitude, its an LDB plugin that shows your current attitude and relative horizontal flight speed |
| 06:46.12 | NightHawkTheSane | Yssaril: stableboy |
| 06:46.21 | Twisol | Attitude? |
| 06:46.23 | Twisol | Altitute? |
| 06:46.26 | Twisol | *de |
| 06:46.32 | NightHawkTheSane | attitude. |
| 06:46.34 | NightHawkTheSane | ie, pitch |
| 06:46.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (n=Shadowed@li89-205.members.linode.com) |
| 06:47.08 | Yssaril | ahh |
| 06:47.14 | Twisol | I found GetUnitSpeed() in the reference... |
| 06:47.22 | Shirik | to be fair, NightHawkTheSane |
| 06:47.29 | Shirik | the correct term is neither "attitude" nor "pitch" |
| 06:47.34 | Shirik | it is "pitch attitude" |
| 06:47.50 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: fair enough |
| 06:47.57 | Shirik | I'm being picky though :) |
| 06:48.01 | Shirik | Blame Boeing |
| 06:48.02 | NightHawkTheSane | yes, you are |
| 06:48.03 | NightHawkTheSane | but thats okay |
| 06:48.31 | Yssaril | NightHawkTheSane: you could always fall back on scanning wowhead and keep a mount database |
| 06:48.41 | Shirik | no |
| 06:48.49 | Shirik | never settle for a crappy solution |
| 06:49.03 | NightHawkTheSane | Yssaril: i originally did that, but maintaining it's a pain. |
| 06:49.05 | Shirik | what are yout rying to solve, NightHawkTheSane? |
| 06:49.13 | Yssaril | hehe i prefer tooltip scanning for that problem |
| 06:49.25 | NightHawkTheSane | (granted, im not sure if its more or less of a pain than tooltip scanning..) |
| 06:49.38 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: determine the type & (max) speed of a mount. |
| 06:49.38 | Yssaril | Shirik: figure out what a mount is and how fast it can go |
| 06:50.08 | NightHawkTheSane | MOST mounts are trivial to do with tooltip scanning, as they follow regular patterns in the tooltip text |
| 06:50.09 | Lunessa | Tooltip scanning for mount speeds is like gargling lysol. Sure it will give you fresh breath, but it will eventually drive you nucking futs. |
| 06:50.13 | Shirik | how fast it can go being "ignoring debuffs"? |
| 06:50.29 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: yes, essentially tooltip speed |
| 06:50.51 | Yssaril | NightHawkTheSane: http://paste.wowace.com/1378/ is what i use in Mounted |
| 06:51.20 | Shirik | Who the hell came up with the color scheme on that page |
| 06:51.28 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, I use something similar. |
| 06:52.01 | Shirik | what is so special about "not" and "or" that they need to be purple? |
| 06:52.10 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (i=spode@213-21-88-111.bon.t3.se) |
| 06:52.45 | Lunessa | "This is a very fast rug." ARGH! |
| 06:52.53 | Shirik | ? |
| 06:53.04 | Shirik | tackles Lunessa |
| 06:53.08 | Lunessa | Tool tip for the tailoring mount |
| 06:53.15 | Shirik | :D |
| 06:53.16 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: yeah. >< |
| 06:53.23 | Thunder_Child | heh, so it doesnt stay on your head? |
| 06:53.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (n=Shadowed@li89-205.members.linode.com) |
| 06:53.50 | Lunessa | TC - Hey, Hair Club for Men - I'm not just the President, I'm also a Member. |
| 06:53.59 | Shirik | Yssaril, what is the purpose of local MOUNT_GROUND = 'ground'? |
| 06:54.30 | Thunder_Child | Lunessa, it would be unlikely for you to be 'A' but not 'B' |
| 06:54.45 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: probably to provide a constant value to compare against |
| 06:54.56 | Shirik | I hope not |
| 06:54.57 | NightHawkTheSane | essentially emulatin a const/define, whatever |
| 06:54.59 | Lunessa | I am not a Venn Diagram! I am a free man! |
| 06:55.23 | Shirik | I hope he has a better reason than that, because that would be a flawed reason to do that |
| 06:55.26 | Thunder_Child | http://vimeo.com/2099501 |
| 06:55.29 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: why? |
| 06:56.01 | Shirik | Because you are harming performance for neither a readability gain nor a maintenance gain |
| 06:56.33 | Shirik | if he came up with the arbitrary string 'ground' then there is no reason to make a constant for it |
| 06:56.38 | NightHawkTheSane | compared to something like a magic number, it's a fair readability/maintenence gain |
| 06:56.49 | Shirik | nope |
| 06:56.53 | *** join/#wowuidev stolen|school (n=stolenle@193.170.222.163) |
| 06:56.54 | Shirik | Because the name of the variable is just as magic |
| 06:57.03 | NightHawkTheSane | er, not really? |
| 06:57.04 | Shirik | You could easily call the string 'MOUNT_GROUND' if you want |
| 06:57.07 | Yssaril | Shirik: honestly i have no clue why that code is from when i first started working on it |
| 06:57.11 | Shirik | there is no meaning behind the string |
| 06:57.14 | Shirik | the contents of the string* |
| 06:57.26 | Shirik | it is just some unique identifier that needs to be consistent through all of them |
| 06:57.44 | NightHawkTheSane | right |
| 06:57.53 | Shirik | So why not just use the string "MOUNT_GROUND" directly? |
| 06:58.12 | NightHawkTheSane | and if, at some later point, the value needs to be changed, its much easier/safer to change it in one place than twenty |
| 06:58.32 | Shirik | Sure, but in a situation like this, that's closer to saying "But if I ever need to change my variable name..." |
| 06:58.36 | Yssaril | probably use 'ground' directly :P |
| 06:58.42 | Shirik | To which the answer is "... don't?" |
| 06:59.03 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: i do something similar in my code, and i DID just run across a situation where i had to change the value, but not the variable name. |
| 06:59.15 | Shirik | then your design was flawed :) |
| 06:59.21 | NightHawkTheSane | no, it wasn't |
| 06:59.25 | Lunessa | I was going to say that. :P |
| 06:59.28 | Shirik | If your strings are truly arbitrary, then there should be no meaning behind them |
| 06:59.35 | Shirik | That is the definition of arbitrary |
| 06:59.44 | Shirik | Accordingly, they should never need to change |
| 06:59.54 | NightHawkTheSane | in my case, they aren't totally arbitrary |
| 06:59.59 | Shirik | In this case, they are |
| 07:00.39 | Shirik | The fact that it says "ground" is merely an attempt to keep it consistent with no reason any computer would be able to identify |
| 07:00.59 | Lunessa | Variable names and values: UR doin it rong |
| 07:01.21 | Shirik | In any other language, this wouldn't be a big deal |
| 07:01.25 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 3.2.x ToC: 30200 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | "It had only one fault. It was kind of lousy." -James Thurber |
| 07:01.33 | NightHawkTheSane | its not a big deal in this language either |
| 07:01.34 | Shirik | In Lua, it is, because you're destroying several fundamental properties of the language |
| 07:02.01 | Shirik | (1) If you weren't to do this, the compiler would fold them all to the same constant index. (2) If you weren't to do this, you would generate no GETUPVALUE opcodes. |
| 07:02.27 | Shirik | what is /spew? |
| 07:02.37 | NightHawkTheSane | tekkubs implementation of dump |
| 07:03.07 | Shirik | is it good? :) |
| 07:03.16 | Yssaril | it spews :P |
| 07:03.25 | Shirik | how is it different from /dump? |
| 07:03.34 | Yssaril | never used dump :P |
| 07:03.46 | NightHawkTheSane | it's a bit better formatted |
| 07:03.51 | NightHawkTheSane | it can output to a separate ui window |
| 07:03.56 | Shirik | oo |
| 07:04.02 | Shirik | does it have little plus buttons too? |
| 07:04.06 | Shirik | so I can dynamically expand? |
| 07:04.09 | Yssaril | nope |
| 07:04.11 | Shirik | aw ( |
| 07:04.12 | Shirik | :( |
| 07:04.13 | NightHawkTheSane | i dont think so |
| 07:04.16 | NightHawkTheSane | i haven't used it in a while |
| 07:04.28 | Shirik | I wrote one of those while I was up at Insitu, it was sick. A good way to avoid the whole circular table problem too |
| 07:04.33 | Yssaril | outputs tables to a separate window anything else just to the chatframe |
| 07:04.38 | Shirik | because you only evaluate one level at a time |
| 07:04.47 | Shirik | And if the user wants to expand infinitely deep, let him |
| 07:05.18 | Yssaril | spew will only go 2 or 3 levels deep if i recall |
| 07:05.49 | mikma_ | it has tekkub writtehn all over it |
| 07:06.22 | Shirik | well it's obviously furry and sexeh |
| 07:06.26 | Shirik | but I wanted to know why |
| 07:06.37 | mikma_ | why what |
| 07:06.43 | Shirik | why it was so sexeh |
| 07:07.03 | mikma_ | shirik: it was the first "standalone" dump tool |
| 07:08.30 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (n=krka@88.80.164.157) |
| 07:09.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (n=Cide@h238n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 07:09.30 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 07:10.59 | Shirik | tackles Cide- |
| 07:11.05 | Cide- | hi shi |
| 07:11.07 | Cide- | rik |
| 07:11.08 | mikma_ | shirik: sure, devtools exists, but spew is just plain dump =) |
| 07:11.11 | Cide- | get rid of Shiibot already |
| 07:11.18 | Shirik | :( |
| 07:13.53 | Cide- | constantly messing up my tab-fu |
| 07:14.38 | Shirik | get a better client |
| 07:15.01 | Twisol | in mIRC, tab twice and it'll move to the next user with that prefix |
| 07:15.02 | Twisol | :) |
| 07:15.16 | Cide- | who cares? |
| 07:15.31 | Cide- | pressing more than once is stupid |
| 07:15.38 | nevcairiel | sane tab-fu should go in last-spoke-order |
| 07:15.42 | Shirik | ^ |
| 07:16.12 | Cide- | xchat does that |
| 07:16.15 | NightHawkTheSane | meh, every user in here should have a unique 2-character prefix. |
| 07:16.17 | mikma_ | rename it to Shitbot |
| 07:16.20 | NightHawkTheSane | :p |
| 07:16.22 | Cide- | it's still strange |
| 07:16.27 | mikma_ | then it wont mess up the tabbing |
| 07:16.29 | Cide- | name it Shrkclone |
| 07:16.32 | Shirik | lua> 26*26 |
| 07:16.32 | lua_bot | Shirik: 676 |
| 07:16.38 | Shirik | lua>139/676 |
| 07:16.38 | lua_bot | Shirik: 0.20562130177515 |
| 07:16.43 | Twisol | mikma_, yes it will, it still starts with shi |
| 07:16.52 | Shirik | While possible, we're already holding 20% of the capacity NightHawkTheSane |
| 07:17.12 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: yeah, i dont think we'd hit the cap |
| 07:17.23 | NightHawkTheSane | i suppose we could go with thre.. |
| 07:17.26 | Shirik | The cap is effectively irrelevant |
| 07:17.31 | Shirik | It's like IPv4 |
| 07:17.40 | Shirik | just because you could theoretically have that many doesn't mean it makes sense to do so |
| 07:18.43 | Shirik | I hate to do this to you Cairenn |
| 07:18.45 | Shirik | but |
| 07:18.48 | Cairenn | hmm? |
| 07:18.51 | NightHawkTheSane | if you're going to be that way, you can have zzShirirk, then :P |
| 07:19.19 | Shirik | eh, nm |
| 07:19.22 | Shirik | I take it back |
| 07:19.23 | Shirik | Cairenn wins |
| 07:19.25 | Cairenn | o.O |
| 07:19.27 | Cairenn | O.o |
| 07:19.33 | Shirik | BE HAPPY |
| 07:19.36 | NightHawkTheSane | Cairenn is also rather confused, i bet. |
| 07:19.38 | Cairenn | oookay |
| 07:19.42 | Cairenn | yes |
| 07:19.51 | krka | correct tab-completion for nicknames is the same as bash uses for file completion |
| 07:19.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker- (i=503f4262@gateway/web/freenode/x-7b0b3ee528a4e159) |
| 07:20.03 | krka | i.e. complete as much as possible, and then show which alternatives there are |
| 07:20.11 | Fisker- | why so serious kd3 ? |
| 07:20.29 | Shirik | krka: annoying imo |
| 07:20.37 | Shirik | Sometimes I hate bash's form of tab completion |
| 07:20.44 | Twisol | I like that form TBH |
| 07:20.54 | Shirik | sometimes I like it, sometimes I hate it |
| 07:20.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Elkano (n=elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano) |
| 07:20.55 | NightHawkTheSane | sometimes i hate it, sometimes i like it. *shrug* |
| 07:21.01 | Shirik | ah |
| 07:21.02 | Shirik | gtfo my head |
| 07:21.05 | NightHawkTheSane | :P |
| 07:21.12 | NightHawkTheSane | its nice when i want to find something i dont know about already |
| 07:21.16 | Twisol | it would be cooler if it worked on keypress instead of on tab, with a little widget appearing with the current alternatives near the cursor |
| 07:21.17 | NightHawkTheSane | but when i -know- what i want, its a pita |
| 07:21.23 | Shirik | exactly |
| 07:21.31 | Shirik | I wish there were a way to swap between the two |
| 07:21.34 | NightHawkTheSane | and for irc, i always know who i want to complete |
| 07:21.34 | Shirik | like tab vs ctrl tab |
| 07:21.35 | Shirik | or something |
| 07:24.27 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 07:25.42 | Fisker- | Shirik: |
| 07:25.48 | Fisker- | do you know why kd3 is so srs? |
| 07:26.29 | Shirik | because |
| 07:26.36 | Shirik | #("kd3") == #("srs") |
| 07:27.31 | Fisker- | +ERR_LFG_TOO_MANY_MEMBERS = "You can not use dungeons with more than 5 party members."; |
| 07:27.38 | Fisker- | i wonder how you get more than 5 people in a party :P |
| 07:27.41 | Cairenn | tem: just a heads up - if you give him /anything at all/ to work with, republic will be a complete and total ass |
| 07:27.44 | Twisol | yeeeahhhh |
| 07:28.06 | tem | whom? |
| 07:28.10 | Cairenn | tem: he is this >< close to Seerah and I being so fed up with him we just plain ban him outright |
| 07:28.17 | Cairenn | "sky is falling" rep |
| 07:28.23 | tem | ooooooh |
| 07:28.37 | tem | I totally didn't pay attention to who I was responding to |
| 07:28.47 | Cairenn | check out Arrowmaster's thread if you want to see what I mean |
| 07:28.59 | Cairenn | about distracted driving |
| 07:29.04 | Arrowmaster | huh? |
| 07:29.09 | tem | I tried to do that survey today and it was closed so I stopped reading >.> |
| 07:29.16 | Cairenn | Arrowmaster: no worries |
| 07:29.31 | Arrowmaster | yeah i had to close the survey to do the report |
| 07:29.33 | Fisker- | you're just getting banned by the end of the day |
| 07:30.17 | *** join/#wowuidev mitch0 (n=mitch@www.drvolomdental.hu) |
| 07:31.33 | Fisker- | it's ok Cairenn you can tell me |
| 07:32.40 | Shirik | Thunder_Child, were you the one who asked for that driver to cut out background sounds from WoW from vent? |
| 07:32.58 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, not from wow, from other people talking |
| 07:33.19 | Shirik | I thought we agreed that it was impossible to do remotely |
| 07:33.26 | Shirik | that it would have to run on the local computer |
| 07:33.43 | Shirik | well not impossible |
| 07:33.46 | Shirik | but extremely difficult |
| 07:33.50 | Thunder_Child | i wasnt one of the people in that discussion, i just started it and waited for someone to fix my problem |
| 07:33.55 | Shirik | lol |
| 07:33.56 | Thunder_Child | never happened :( |
| 07:34.03 | Shirik | I'm busy! |
| 07:34.09 | Shirik | and batrick says I'm not allowed to take on any new projects |
| 07:34.12 | Thunder_Child | *shrug* wasnt blaming you |
| 07:34.14 | Thunder_Child | yet |
| 07:34.36 | Thunder_Child | batrick, is prolly correct |
| 07:34.40 | Lunessa | Thunder_Child: You're a born project manager, you just need classes in follow-through |
| 07:34.48 | Shirik | rofl |
| 07:35.12 | Shirik | Lunessa: He has one fault |
| 07:35.18 | Shirik | (02:33:52) (Thunder_Child) never happened :( |
| 07:35.19 | Shirik | followed by |
| 07:35.22 | Shirik | (02:34:09) (Thunder_Child) *shrug* wasnt blaming you |
| 07:35.31 | Arrowmaster | mumble does exactly what Thunder_Child is talking about, except it needs a good enough sound card to be able to do it i think |
| 07:35.31 | Shirik | project managers are supposed to go: |
| 07:35.37 | Shirik | Step 1: We didn't get it done |
| 07:35.43 | Shirik | Step 2: Blame someone other than me |
| 07:35.51 | Lunessa | No, that's the VPs job. Blame everyone. The PM just takes all the credit and gets all the raises. |
| 07:36.02 | Thunder_Child | Lunessa, actually i could have pushed it along since i can jack of all trades enough...but i got sidetracked |
| 07:36.22 | tem | Cairenn, ew. |
| 07:36.26 | Lunessa | TC Yeah, but I just had to Dilbert the conversation. |
| 07:36.29 | Cairenn | tem: hmm? |
| 07:36.30 | tem | that thread derails rather quickly |
| 07:36.33 | Cairenn | yeah |
| 07:36.35 | Cairenn | as I said |
| 07:36.39 | Cairenn | he's this >< close |
| 07:36.40 | Lunessa | I can has linkee? |
| 07:36.49 | Cairenn | Lunessa: you don't want it, doesn't really matter |
| 07:36.50 | Shirik | Dilbert is a verb now? |
| 07:36.52 | Fisker- | WTB Net Neutrality |
| 07:37.00 | Lunessa | Shirik: Like Godwin |
| 07:37.05 | Thunder_Child | Arrowmaster, does mumble tie into vent? |
| 07:37.07 | Cairenn | I've been pissed off ever since he started, I've no idea why I've let it go |
| 07:37.51 | Thunder_Child | Arrowmaster, because i was told that TS can do it as well, but we have vent servers |
| 07:37.51 | Arrowmaster | Thunder_Child: no its a complete replacement, Antiarc has used it and ran a server for it for his guild i think |
| 07:37.52 | Lunessa | Cairenn: You haven't dished out your monthly banning? You know it's vital to keep your humors vitae in balance! |
| 07:37.53 | Shirik | Well thing is Arrowmaster |
| 07:38.00 | Shirik | You have two sides to this |
| 07:38.06 | Shirik | You can do that, but you'll lose quality if it's done remotely |
| 07:38.08 | Thunder_Child | Arrowmaster, the servers get to much trafic to have everyone get it |
| 07:38.15 | Shirik | If you do it at the local side, you could probably hit a Q factor of 95% |
| 07:38.17 | Shirik | or better |
| 07:38.21 | Arrowmaster | Thunder_Child: get what? |
| 07:38.26 | Shirik | It's quite easily accomplished |
| 07:38.35 | Fisker- | are you guys discussing voice communication? |
| 07:38.38 | Thunder_Child | Arrowmaster, the mumble client? |
| 07:38.56 | Shirik | no Fisker |
| 07:39.08 | Shirik | we are discussing net neturality |
| 07:39.16 | Shirik | and how you ain't got no |
| 07:39.32 | Arrowmaster | pertty sure Antiarc ran a server for his guild that didnt use that much traffic |
| 07:39.36 | nevcairiel | neturality? |
| 07:39.57 | Shirik | nevcairiel is lucky |
| 07:40.01 | Thunder_Child | Arrowmaster, mumble is both a client program and server program right? |
| 07:40.06 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 07:40.07 | Shirik | he lives in a country where not everyone is greedy pigs and corrupt |
| 07:40.15 | Arrowmaster | just like all other voice comms |
| 07:40.21 | Shirik | in the US, we have this ongoing fight about something known as "net neutrality" |
| 07:40.23 | Fisker- | he lives in germany Shirik |
| 07:40.36 | Thunder_Child | Arrowmaster, then that would mean people connecting to it need mumble, but our server gets lots of non-guild traffic |
| 07:40.43 | nevcairiel | everyone knows that the US is nothing more then greedy pigs <.< |
| 07:40.45 | Thunder_Child | who wont get it |
| 07:40.51 | Shirik | That is, should an ISP be able to block or throttle connections to a site because the site has not paid premium to the ISP |
| 07:40.55 | Arrowmaster | Thunder_Child: your vent server? |
| 07:41.06 | Thunder_Child | Arrowmaster, si |
| 07:41.21 | nevcairiel | Shirik: wow thats just awesome :P |
| 07:41.22 | Arrowmaster | ok by traffic you mean people not bandwidth right? |
| 07:41.28 | Fisker- | TS3 beta next month btw |
| 07:41.31 | Thunder_Child | Arrowmaster, heh, ya sorry |
| 07:41.36 | Fisker- | Ventrilo is old and dusty |
| 07:41.43 | Shirik | so stupid nevcairiel |
| 07:41.48 | Shirik | it's pathetic |
| 07:41.58 | Shirik | trying to make money off something they didn't even do |
| 07:41.58 | nevcairiel | more money for the ISPs |
| 07:42.04 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:42.17 | Arrowmaster | comcast just start new 'network management' practices |
| 07:42.31 | Fisker- | some isp's in the uk are doing it now as well |
| 07:42.41 | Fisker- | Guess where P2P is on their priority list hoho |
| 07:42.42 | nevcairiel | I wonder how our law would react to actions like that |
| 07:42.42 | Arrowmaster | use more than 70% of your max throughput for 15minutes and get throttled |
| 07:42.52 | Fisker- | http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Broadband-down-your-phone-line/PC-gaming-problems-on-National-Broadband/td-p/4782 |
| 07:43.04 | nevcairiel | It is kinda strict around those parts |
| 07:43.05 | Fisker- | ^^ In b4 Bittorrent disguises as xbox packets |
| 07:43.06 | Fisker- | ;3 |
| 07:43.58 | Shirik | I don't understand why |
| 07:44.09 | Shirik | it's not like we're overusing the internet, at least I think |
| 07:44.14 | Shirik | I thought we were pretty set |
| 07:44.30 | Fisker- | naw |
| 07:44.37 | Arrowmaster | how the fuck is console traffic easy to identify when they are all using fucking p2p shit made up by each individual developer |
| 07:44.43 | Shirik | however an interesting thought is how much traffic will increase if/when we finally make the switch to ipv6 |
| 07:45.08 | Fisker- | http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/10/01/only-9-countries-ready-for-future-broadband-applications |
| 07:45.09 | Fisker- | :D |
| 07:45.39 | Thunder_Child | actually Arrowmaster, i think you just answered your own question |
| 07:46.02 | Fisker- | sounds like you just ordered him a thousand liters of milk |
| 07:46.04 | Arrowmaster | no i didnt |
| 07:46.18 | Shirik | if "packet looks like a bunch of made up p2p shit" then identify a console traffic |
| 07:46.21 | Shirik | lol |
| 07:46.25 | Thunder_Child | you are talking about a unique fingerprint |
| 07:46.25 | Shirik | that'll be a fun algorithm to write |
| 07:46.43 | Shirik | SLEEP TIME |
| 07:46.44 | Shirik | baibai |
| 07:46.48 | Shirik | and Cairenn is going to sleep too |
| 07:46.49 | Thunder_Child | lies Shirik |
| 07:46.51 | Shirik | she just doesn't know it yet |
| 07:46.58 | Cairenn | sweet dreams Shirik :) |
| 07:47.00 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (n=robotusc@50A2D944.flatrate.dk) |
| 07:47.20 | Fisker- | makes out with robotusch |
| 07:47.44 | Lunessa | wishes sleep would be so easy to get. |
| 07:48.00 | Thunder_Child | sleep comes in a bottle if you so wish Lunessa |
| 07:48.36 | Lunessa | Thunder_Child: That stuff is usually a hypnotic, which scares the shit out of me. |
| 07:48.41 | Fisker- | you mean hitting Lunessa with the bottle? |
| 07:49.12 | Lunessa | And most of them are habit-forming |
| 07:49.24 | Lunessa | And... lead me to have the strangest fucking nightmares. |
| 07:49.45 | Lunessa | So I'll deal with being sleepy and unable to sleep because the cure is worse than the disease. |
| 07:55.57 | mitch0 | lunessa: 2 cans of beer, and you'll sleep well :) |
| 07:56.27 | Lunessa | mitch0: Canadian, American, Japanese or European beer? |
| 07:57.06 | mitch0 | I only have exeprience with european beer, but probably the others work too :) |
| 07:57.11 | Thunder_Child | all of the above |
| 07:58.06 | Lunessa | Nah, most US brewed beers are fairly low alcohol content. |
| 08:02.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:05.16 | Antiarc | Are we talking about Mumble? |
| 08:05.19 | Antiarc | I run a sever for my guild, yes |
| 08:05.29 | Antiarc | We run our guild stuff off of a linode.com VM |
| 08:05.31 | mitch0 | we're talking about beer |
| 08:05.31 | Antiarc | Works like a charm |
| 08:06.05 | Thunder_Child | what would be better is a mumble client to vent server tie in or somesuch |
| 08:06.18 | Antiarc | The vent protocol is proprietary |
| 08:06.22 | Antiarc | And intentionally locked down |
| 08:06.22 | Thunder_Child | assuming the audio cancelation is client based |
| 08:06.26 | Antiarc | It is |
| 08:06.49 | Antiarc | The mumble client is awesome. It filters background noise, does echo cancellation, automatic normalization, all kinds of sweet stuff |
| 08:07.58 | Antiarc | We've used 4.7 GB of bandwidth this month so far, but that's with 2x 25-man raids, 3x 10-man raids, and a guild alliance of 200+ people that runs 5-mans and does PVP stuff all the time |
| 08:08.03 | Antiarc | Linode gives us 200GB/month |
| 08:08.36 | Antiarc | Mumble is really quite easy to run :) |
| 08:08.42 | Antiarc | And it's got a TON less lag than Vent |
| 08:08.57 | Antiarc | It's far more realtime. Once you get a feel for Mumble comms, Vent feels positively archaic. |
| 08:09.12 | Antiarc | We haven't regretted the switch in the slightest, and it's free. |
| 08:10.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:10.43 | Lunessa | Just need the bandwidth for hosting, which you probably don't want to do for your 25-man raids on your home 1.5mbs connection |
| 08:10.45 | nevcairiel | I usually dislike noise reduction, 99% of the cases they suck and make you sound like you sit in a tin can |
| 08:11.06 | Antiarc | That's why I just use Linode |
| 08:11.46 | Fisker- | you need to pm Fisker a link Antiarc |
| 08:11.50 | Fisker- | so i can check it out when i get home |
| 08:11.58 | Antiarc | Wednesday is our busiest night, generally, with 70-80 people on the server at once. We peaked at 600kb/s throughput, averaged in the 200kb/s range for the raids' duration |
| 08:12.06 | Antiarc | http://mumble.sourceforge.net/ |
| 08:12.38 | Antiarc | Normal non-raid traffic is in the 25-50kb/s range |
| 08:13.37 | Elkano | main problem I had mit mumble was getting voice activation working... with my notebook's array micro that is... |
| 08:13.37 | Antiarc | http://imgur.com/Q3R7C.png |
| 08:13.41 | Antiarc | That's last 30 days |
| 08:14.11 | Fisker- | i r not home Antiarc |
| 08:14.19 | Fisker- | hoho |
| 08:14.22 | Fisker- | "GlaDOS" |
| 08:14.25 | Fisker- | i saw what you did there |
| 08:14.30 | Antiarc | I name all my boxes after fictional AIs |
| 08:14.34 | Antiarc | My home machine is SHODAN |
| 08:14.38 | Antiarc | Cortana is the laptop. |
| 08:15.35 | Fisker- | anyways pm it to Fisker :o |
| 08:16.27 | Antiarc | Quite honestly I don't think Vent has any compelling features over Mumble, with the sole exception of more marketshare. |
| 08:16.32 | Antiarc | Mumble's overlay is sexysauce. |
| 08:16.44 | Antiarc | And it can automatically lower system volume when someone is talking |
| 08:17.09 | Antiarc | So I listen to music during raids, then when someone says something, Mumble cuts my other system volume by 80%, brings it back up when they releast PTT |
| 08:17.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@0x573f1066.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.hjnqu1.customer.tele.dk) |
| 08:17.24 | Antiarc | It has an awesome ACL control for server admins, so you can do really creative stuff with the permissions |
| 08:17.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-158-60-123.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 08:17.30 | Fisker- | yeah ventrilo is archaic |
| 08:17.40 | Antiarc | It has DBUS and ICE interfaces, so you can, for example, use a phpbb3 DB to authenticate people |
| 08:17.48 | Fisker- | they better have been developing some insane version 4.x or they're going to lose marketshare soon |
| 08:17.54 | Antiarc | So if you have a login on your guild website, you can use the same on Mumble and inherit your same permissions |
| 08:18.27 | Antiarc | So if you're an officer on phpbb3, your permissions automatically translate onto the mumble server, and if the admin gives the officer group various management permissions, they inherit the ability to manage the mumble server itself |
| 08:19.05 | Antiarc | The server software can spawn any number of virtual severs on different ports, so one copy of the daemon lets me spin up as many mumble endpoints as I want |
| 08:19.53 | Fisker- | got some screenshots on the newest versions etc? |
| 08:20.09 | Fisker- | i assume they have a similar bridge for vbulletin? |
| 08:20.46 | Antiarc | You can build a bridge to anything |
| 08:21.00 | Antiarc | They have an example script with auths against a phpbb3 DB, but you can see how it does it and adapt it to anything you want |
| 08:21.03 | Fisker- | found them |
| 08:21.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (i=Cide@p96-n250.kthopen.kth.se) |
| 08:21.31 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 08:21.39 | batrick | since you guys are talking about voice chat clients, have you looked at Teamspeak 3 coming out soon? |
| 08:21.42 | batrick | looks pretty sweet |
| 08:22.00 | Antiarc | Teamspeak 3 has been "coming out soon" for like 8 years now |
| 08:22.08 | batrick | open beta is next month |
| 08:22.10 | Fisker- | Antiarc our guild is poor and irish(i.e. lazy and incompetent :P) |
| 08:22.13 | Fisker- | ^^ |
| 08:22.13 | Cide- | regarding correct tab-completion |
| 08:22.20 | Fisker- | already told them batrick |
| 08:22.22 | Cide- | xchat does like bash in that regard |
| 08:22.25 | Cide- | which sucks for irc |
| 08:22.31 | Antiarc | http://imgur.com/m3RWf.png <-- my UI |
| 08:22.39 | Antiarc | I run the nightly snapshot |
| 08:22.56 | Antiarc | http://imgur.com/KvxGb.png for the options |
| 08:24.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (i=caleb@client-139-98.wifi.elte.hu) |
| 08:24.21 | Antiarc | mumble 1.2 is going to use a new codec called "CELT", which is being developed by the speex team. It's going to be speex minus the suck plus severe awesome, apparently |
| 08:24.30 | Antiarc | It's still alpha, since the codec isn't finalized yet, but it's looking sweet. |
| 08:25.04 | Antiarc | http://www.celt-codec.org/ |
| 08:25.38 | End | I've considered trying to get my guildies to use mumble |
| 08:25.46 | End | but it'd be a painful uphill battle |
| 08:26.13 | Antiarc | It was pretty easy for me, once I got past the intial "but it's NEW" resistence |
| 08:26.17 | Antiarc | Folks like it. |
| 08:26.28 | Thunder_Child | bah linode is too expensive |
| 08:27.02 | Antiarc | Where are you hosted that you get a lot of traffic but don't pay a lot? |
| 08:27.11 | Antiarc | (if you have shell access, you can run mumble, fwiw) |
| 08:27.33 | Fisker- | Antiarc that graph you had |
| 08:27.35 | Thunder_Child | a lot of traffic doesnt mean all at once |
| 08:27.40 | Fisker- | kilobits or kilobytes |
| 08:27.41 | Fisker- | ? |
| 08:27.48 | Thunder_Child | i pay $100 a year for a 30 person vent server |
| 08:27.52 | Antiarc | I think it's kilobits |
| 08:28.10 | Antiarc | Thunder_Child: We were going to need a 100-slot server, which is why we moved to mumble |
| 08:28.26 | Fisker- | yeah they're crazy ass expensive :/ |
| 08:28.30 | Antiarc | 100-slot servers are more expensive monthly (from the good providers, anyhow) than just renting the whole damn VM |
| 08:28.34 | Fisker- | and all hosts around here are obviously overselling |
| 08:28.35 | Antiarc | Vent licensing costs are nutty. |
| 08:28.38 | End | We use a 50 slot vent server...we wouldn't want to go any bigger than that |
| 08:28.51 | Thunder_Child | Antiarc, same price |
| 08:28.53 | Antiarc | There are hosted mumble servers, too, but they're dirt cheap since there are no licensing fees |
| 08:29.15 | Antiarc | We just use the $20/month VM and run our guild site, mumble server, and Icecast server off of it |
| 08:29.21 | Antiarc | (We do radio shows during raids) |
| 08:29.36 | Arrowmaster | Thunder_Child: just pay Antiarc $100 a year to host a mumble server for you |
| 08:29.44 | Antiarc | http://mumble-tower.com/hosting |
| 08:30.03 | Antiarc | There you go, 30-slot mumble server hosting for $46.80/year |
| 08:30.04 | End | wow that's cheap compared to vent :P |
| 08:30.10 | Antiarc | Yes, no licensing fees to worry about |
| 08:30.16 | Antiarc | Open source server software ftw. |
| 08:30.19 | Thunder_Child | Arrowmaster, my issue is with making people get another client |
| 08:30.29 | Antiarc | I could easily run 1000-1500 slots off of my Linode VM before I capped it |
| 08:30.32 | Thunder_Child | most wont, especially the temp players |
| 08:31.03 | Antiarc | So if I resold slots at $0.10/slot, I could profit $130/month per rented Linode :P |
| 08:31.27 | Fisker- | they're located in germany? |
| 08:31.35 | Antiarc | There are hosts all over |
| 08:31.41 | Antiarc | Mumble's very popular in Europe though |
| 08:31.52 | Fisker- | yeah their serverload thing says ".de" though |
| 08:32.07 | Antiarc | http://www.mumblevoice.com/ has servers in the US, UK, Canada, and Germany |
| 08:33.10 | nevcairiel | So whats an easy-to-implement format for transfering data over networks? XML is too wordy for me, too much overhead .. its meant for mobile clients |
| 08:33.10 | Antiarc | https://www.teamspeak.cc/whmcs/cart.php?a=confproduct&i=0 sells Mumble hosting, too, $0.20/slot |
| 08:33.18 | Antiarc | nevcairiel: json |
| 08:33.25 | Antiarc | Very compacy, human-readable, easy to parse |
| 08:33.28 | Antiarc | compact* |
| 08:33.48 | nevcairiel | mmm |
| 08:34.23 | Antiarc | (json is a subset of yaml, which you may also be interested in) |
| 08:34.59 | nevcairiel | the mobile client will probably be java based, which i assuem can read json natively somehow, so thats good |
| 08:35.21 | Antiarc | json is "javascript object notation", so I wouldn't assume Java necessarily supports it :P |
| 08:35.26 | Antiarc | But it's extremely easy to read/write. |
| 08:35.47 | nevcairiel | well its android specifically, it comes with a org.json interface :P |
| 08:35.57 | Antiarc | I'd expect that to be very easy then :P |
| 08:36.08 | Antiarc | json is becoming something of a standard for REST API services, anyhow |
| 08:36.21 | Antiarc | Plus, if you're using it in a web context, it slipstreams with jsonp really easily |
| 08:36.24 | nevcairiel | now i just need a json generator for my C++ server app |
| 08:36.48 | Antiarc | http://json.org/ |
| 08:36.57 | Antiarc | Scroll down, they have libraries for dozens of languages |
| 08:37.12 | nevcairiel | yeah i'm looking over them |
| 08:37.45 | msoul | anyone having issue with bigwig? as i'veupdated and it claimed i still have the older version when i do /bwv |
| 08:38.35 | Fisker- | probably a newer alpha/beta |
| 08:38.35 | msoul | claims |
| 08:38.54 | Antiarc | Someone is probably running an alpha |
| 08:39.04 | msoul | o i see |
| 08:39.19 | msoul | the latest commit is sec |
| 08:39.50 | Fisker- | no i was first Antiarc :( |
| 08:40.12 | msoul | r6570 and it says on mine r6569 |
| 08:40.22 | msoul | got it from wowace |
| 08:40.44 | msoul | none of the grp has it if i understood correctly |
| 08:41.06 | mitch0 | nev: have you looked at google's protocol buffers? |
| 08:41.11 | mitch0 | nev: http://code.google.com/p/protobuf/ |
| 08:47.22 | Wobin | http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/11/4/price-loyalty/ |
| 08:47.25 | Wobin | I can totally see that |
| 08:48.37 | Arrowmaster | haha |
| 08:48.57 | Arrowmaster | 90/10 split |
| 08:51.32 | Antiarc | http://i.imgur.com/reRr5.jpg |
| 08:52.49 | mitch0 | sick |
| 08:54.09 | Arrowmaster | hilarious |
| 08:55.14 | Antiarc | So, I used cloc to count the number of lines of code in my UI. |
| 08:55.17 | Antiarc | 772,773. |
| 08:55.22 | Antiarc | I think I need help. |
| 08:55.29 | Antiarc | (that's just Lua, no XML or anything) |
| 08:55.37 | Antiarc | 16,672 LOC of XML |
| 08:56.06 | Antiarc | According to this, it's the equivalent of 3,091,092 LOC in a 3rd-gen language. |
| 08:56.43 | Arrowmaster | whats a 3rd gen language? |
| 08:57.13 | Antiarc | C++, C#, Java, etc |
| 08:57.26 | Fisker- | omfg i lol'd Wobin |
| 09:01.36 | Fisker- | i demand attention Wobin |
| 09:01.48 | wereHamster | is SendAddonMessage still limited to 254 bytes? |
| 09:02.02 | Antiarc | Yeah, use ChatThrottleLib |
| 09:02.28 | wereHamster | I won't, but thanks for the confirmation |
| 09:03.14 | Arrowmaster | CTL doesnt do multiline messages, ace3 does |
| 09:03.48 | olafski | http://i38.tinypic.com/zt901y.jpg |
| 09:04.07 | Fisker- | lol'd |
| 09:09.10 | olafski | item redeemed! please log out and back in to receive your item in the mailbox :) |
| 09:09.24 | Fisker- | :( |
| 09:09.29 | Fisker- | I had to get a GM to get mine |
| 09:10.55 | olafski | :( |
| 09:11.14 | olafski | got the KT.. maybe I'll gift my gf the pandaren |
| 09:13.05 | olafski | I feel decadent now :< |
| 09:14.47 | Fisker- | FORUM MAINTANENCE |
| 09:14.49 | Fisker- | RAAAAAAGEEEEEEE |
| 09:18.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (i=Cide@p96-n250.kthopen.kth.se) |
| 09:18.14 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 09:20.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Balreign (n=Balreign@ANantes-156-1-68-171.w90-12.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:21.07 | Wobin | zomg |
| 09:21.11 | Wobin | pay4pets? |
| 09:25.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@c210145.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 09:26.57 | Fisker- | oooold Wobin |
| 09:27.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 09:28.02 | Wobin | Fisker-, yeah, I didn't know, so I looked it up |
| 09:28.07 | Wobin | and was saying zomg |
| 09:28.30 | Fisker- | yeah well i had to say old alright? |
| 09:28.52 | Wobin | no you didn't =( |
| 09:33.04 | olafski | not that different from TCG pets anyhow |
| 09:37.11 | Fisker- | think the pets look a lot better than your standard pet :o |
| 09:37.26 | *** join/#wowuidev neOliv (n=oliv@htr06-1-82-227-228-20.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:39.55 | Wobin | yeah |
| 09:40.02 | Wobin | panda's idle animation is pretty awesome |
| 09:40.17 | Wobin | although he should totally interact with the /panda emote |
| 09:40.19 | Wobin | and order pizza |
| 09:43.02 | Fisker- | tonight is going to be the big night :3 |
| 09:43.11 | Fisker- | need to kill sum faction champions |
| 09:45.04 | Fisker- | ~seen jnwhiteh |
| 09:45.08 | purl | jnwhiteh is currently on #wowprogramming (6d 19h 14m 14s) #wowuidev (6d 19h 14m 14s) #wowace (6d 19h 14m 14s) #curseforge (6d 19h 14m 14s). Has said a total of 116 messages. Is idling for 23h 46m 42s, last said: 'email mei fyou do =)'. |
| 09:45.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C03DF.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 09:45.18 | Kalroth | Fisker-: you meanie |
| 09:45.26 | Kalroth | Fisker-: you should kill anub instead |
| 09:45.35 | Fisker- | need to get to him first |
| 09:45.41 | Fisker- | think he's going to be mad hard as well |
| 09:45.52 | Kalroth | oh, you're doing 10-man normal? |
| 09:46.01 | Fisker- | 25-man heroic |
| 09:46.06 | Fisker- | so oh u |
| 09:46.08 | Kalroth | with you in the raid? |
| 09:46.14 | Kalroth | as in, you're actually inside? |
| 09:46.20 | Fisker- | yes. |
| 09:46.31 | Kalroth | as one of the 25 people? in a heroic instance? |
| 09:46.44 | Fisker- | would it comfort you to know that i'm tanking? |
| 09:46.52 | Kalroth | .. |
| 09:46.54 | Kalroth | what class |
| 09:46.55 | *** join/#wowuidev stolen|school (n=stolenle@193.170.222.163) |
| 09:47.03 | Kalroth | hero class? |
| 09:47.04 | Hjalte | Fisker-: We had a lot of problems with Faction Champions untill we decided to screw all CC except on healers and melee and just nuke. |
| 09:47.07 | jnwhiteh | ohai |
| 09:47.16 | Kalroth | jnwhiteh: hai u |
| 09:47.28 | Fisker- | naw Kalroth |
| 09:47.31 | Fisker- | i'm trollin' anyways |
| 09:47.38 | Fisker- | Hjalte currently we're doing healers first |
| 09:47.42 | Kalroth | Hjalte: last week we wiped twice on FC and on the kill we lost like 4 people, on Anub we wiped 0 times and noone died .. :P |
| 09:47.44 | Fisker- | But i think we need to kill that damn rogue |
| 09:48.04 | Hjalte | Fisker-: We kill one healer, priest or shaman, and then go for melee |
| 09:48.05 | Kalroth | Fisker-: No, put a healer on rogue duty |
| 09:48.26 | Kalroth | Fisker-: Make a (good) healer /focus the rogue and heal whatever the rogue is targetting |
| 09:48.37 | Fisker- | good idea |
| 09:48.52 | Fisker- | jnwhiteh you live in the uk right? |
| 09:49.06 | Kalroth | jnwhiteh is a chav? I knew it! |
| 09:49.49 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 09:51.19 | Hjalte | jnwhiteh: You have a Hero, right? MCR 2.9 is awesome. Plus the new radio, that followed the new rom. |
| 09:52.48 | Fisker- | fuck hero |
| 09:52.50 | Fisker- | X10 |
| 09:52.52 | Fisker- | fuck yeah! |
| 09:53.31 | Hjalte | Fisker- Go suck on an Iphone or something, X10 won't be out for a long time. I've had my Hero for a couple months now :) |
| 09:54.05 | Kalroth | eww, why suck on the ifoney |
| 09:54.24 | Kalroth | you never know where the mac user last had it |
| 09:55.23 | Fisker- | up the face of some innocent person |
| 09:55.36 | Fisker- | Anyways i thought about getting the hero |
| 09:55.39 | Fisker- | but waiting for the x10 |
| 09:56.26 | Fisker- | I just hope they don't do the halfasses released then say "Update coming soon" then a few months after announce the Xperia X11 with all those issues fixed and then take a dump on the X10 users :P |
| 09:56.37 | Hjalte | It does sound nice with a faster cpu, but the state of my Hero right now, with the latest updates, it doesn't feel slow at all. |
| 09:56.42 | Fisker- | halfassed release* |
| 09:58.15 | jnwhiteh | Hjalte: i do, and i use MCR |
| 09:58.17 | jnwhiteh | and tek's kernel |
| 09:58.20 | jnwhiteh | where's teh radio :P |
| 09:58.32 | tekkub | mu? |
| 09:59.05 | Fisker- | soup tekkub |
| 09:59.17 | Hjalte | jnwhiteh: Paul didn't update the title yet, but the latest radio is called IU-something: http://android.modaco.com/content/htc-hero-hero-modaco-com/291942/09-10-hero-roms-radios-in-update-zip-format/ |
| 10:00.04 | Hjalte | jnwhiteh: It's giving me 4 bars at home when I usually had 2 using HSPA |
| 10:00.28 | Kalroth | chocolate bars? |
| 10:00.36 | Hjalte | Yes, chocolate bars. |
| 10:01.27 | Hjalte | Fisker-: HTC Dragon (I'm thinking of an android HD2) also looks sweet. |
| 10:03.07 | *** join/#wowuidev End (n=end@tetris.cornhooves.org) |
| 10:03.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Athrun-- (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:08.42 | Kalroth | Fisker-: this is for you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYW6C44zo24 |
| 10:11.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneu^ (n=WiN@pneumatus.plus.com) |
| 10:12.44 | wereHamster | what's the slash command for leaving a group? I tried /leave but that didn't work |
| 10:13.13 | neOliv | try /gquit |
| 10:13.15 | neOliv | for group quit |
| 10:13.24 | neOliv | or do not try... as you wish :) |
| 10:13.25 | wereHamster | isn't that guild quit? |
| 10:13.33 | neOliv | maybe o:) |
| 10:15.15 | jnwhiteh | Hjalte: NICE,I'LL UPDATE THEN |
| 10:16.32 | Kalroth | lol |
| 10:16.44 | Kalroth | ./script LeaveParty(); |
| 10:16.46 | Kalroth | I think |
| 10:16.58 | neOliv | yeah... I'm not able to remember a /command for that |
| 10:17.35 | wereHamster | I think there was, but maybe it was provided by some addon |
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| 10:20.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 10:27.15 | smcn | muahaha i'm princess stabbity, stab stab kill kill |
| 10:29.30 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (n=krka@88.80.164.157) |
| 10:34.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (n=Kazie@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 10:37.38 | Fisker- | Anyone else got the memo that copying a game is stealing? |
| 10:38.01 | foxlit | you wouldn't copy your grandmother, fisker. |
| 10:38.21 | foxlit | you wouldn't download a car. |
| 10:39.17 | Fisker- | indeed i wouldn't |
| 10:43.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-158-60-123.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 10:53.41 | wereHamster | I copied a game from one directory to another. Did I steal it? |
| 10:54.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C03DF.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 10:54.52 | foxlit | YES! Shameless replicator of bits, you are. |
| 10:55.03 | foxlit | (You should've cut-and-pasted it. That'd be okay. Obviously.) |
| 10:59.10 | nevcairiel | foxlit: if i could, i would download a car, obviously! |
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| 11:26.30 | Wobin | nevcairiel, would you download... a PONY? |
| 11:26.51 | nevcairiel | no, but i wouldnt buy, steal, or take it for free either |
| 11:26.58 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@cpc1-oxfd19-2-0-cust805.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 11:29.19 | *** join/#wowuidev stolen|school (n=stolenle@193.170.222.163) |
| 11:29.50 | Jerub | sigh. don't know what upgrades to get. |
| 11:30.24 | Jerub | got T8.5 chest and head, T9.0 gloves and shoulders, and 85 EoT (this is feral drood dps) |
| 11:31.02 | Fisker- | oh man this is just great |
| 11:31.20 | Fisker- | So i said that piracy could have a positive effect and gain you customers |
| 11:31.33 | Fisker- | Then someone says i can't know that and adds that piracy means 1 less customer |
| 11:31.38 | Fisker- | <PROTECTED> |
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| 11:53.47 | mini | can anyone using a locale that uses feminine class names tell me if the friends list uses feminine names as well? |
| 12:08.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 12:38.27 | *** join/#wowuidev simonw (n=simonw@207.46.92.17) |
| 12:53.20 | jnwhiteh | does anyone know how SetMultiCastSpell works? |
| 12:54.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-057-247-030.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:58.09 | Mikk | idk. /cast Foo sent to 224.x.x.x? |
| 12:59.45 | jnwhiteh | =) |
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| 13:06.47 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 13:10.50 | Grum | jnwhiteh: isnt that for cast random macros orso? |
| 13:11.00 | jnwhiteh | nope, totem bar |
| 13:11.02 | jnwhiteh | and i've figured it out. |
| 13:11.43 | Grum | aah ofc |
| 13:12.59 | wereHamster | events are non-reentrant, right? that is when one event is being processed, OnEvent won't be called again |
| 13:16.25 | Fisker | slaps jnwhiteh around a bit with a large trout |
| 13:17.57 | jnwhiteh | wereHamster: no |
| 13:18.12 | jnwhiteh | wereHamster: certain API calls will IMMEDIATELY trigger an event |
| 13:19.15 | jnwhiteh | for example if in the LOOT_WINDOW_OPENED event fires, and you LootSlot() inside that event and the item you loot is the last item in the window, your code for LOOT_WINDOW_CLOSED will actually run before your code returns to your LOOT_WINDOW_OPENED handler. |
| 13:23.59 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (i=harl@dslb-088-077-214-146.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 13:33.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 13:33.04 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
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| 13:33.59 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (i=spode@213-21-88-111.bon.t3.se) |
| 13:36.03 | Jerub | lol http://www.wowwiki.com/Linzi_Redgrin |
| 13:39.42 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (n=stolenle@d86-33-207-79.cust.tele2.at) |
| 13:40.57 | Lopeppeppy | Son of a... IT totally borked my email when they upgraded to office 2007 overnight. Here I sit, very crying over not getting anything done today. |
| 13:44.48 | wereHamster | jnwhiteh: is that an exception or rather frequen that events preempt each other? |
| 13:45.00 | jnwhiteh | wereHamster: it only happens when you make an API call |
| 13:45.09 | jnwhiteh | there's not a ton that do it |
| 13:45.13 | jnwhiteh | but you shouldn't make any assumptions |
| 13:45.42 | wereHamster | is trying to design a wow addon-like API |
| 13:47.06 | NiLon | can addon modify spefic macro on the fly even in combat? |
| 13:47.20 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 13:47.35 | NiLon | can it modify at all? |
| 13:48.12 | Arrowmaster | not in combat |
| 13:52.27 | jnwhiteh | wereHamster: in that case, I'd think really hard about the right situaion |
| 13:52.42 | jnwhiteh | cause there's a good case for either way |
| 13:53.26 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@c-68-62-175-169.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 13:53.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 14:07.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Balreign (n=Balreign@ANantes-156-1-68-171.w90-12.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 14:25.55 | *** join/#wowuidev zeheres (n=crs@dslb-084-061-073-191.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:26.57 | Antiarc | Oh my |
| 14:26.58 | Antiarc | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/theweaselking/main4/belka-1.gif |
| 14:29.19 | jnwhiteh | yes, amazing =) |
| 14:30.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Ose (n=chatzill@wikia/Ose) |
| 14:32.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelo (n=chatzill@85.210.121.84) |
| 14:38.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Hirsute (n=chatzill@lre-east-3-11.usahousing.utah.edu) |
| 14:38.52 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 14:38.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 14:40.46 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, alestane dear. |
| 14:41.02 | alestane | Good morning, pep-Peppy. |
| 14:41.50 | Trela | Good morning people! |
| 14:42.27 | Trela | Antiarc, that is amazing and so wrong. |
| 14:47.26 | cog|sleep | hai |
| 14:47.33 | Lopeppeppy | Hai2U |
| 14:47.36 | ckknight | no, cogwheel, no |
| 14:47.41 | ckknight | go back to where you came. |
| 14:47.51 | cog|sleep | gladly |
| 14:48.03 | ckknight | see, and now we have tranquility |
| 14:48.21 | cog|sleep | wishes |
| 14:49.30 | Fisker | slaps cogwheel around a bit with a large trout |
| 14:49.32 | Fisker | slaps ckknight around a bit with a large trout |
| 14:49.33 | Fisker | slaps jnwhiteh around a bit with a large trout |
| 14:49.41 | ckknight | no, Fisker |
| 14:49.44 | Fisker | :( |
| 14:49.44 | ckknight | curse your black heart |
| 14:50.22 | Fisker | i want you |
| 14:51.52 | Lopeppeppy | No, mine |
| 14:52.23 | alestane | Peppy needs it for the soup. |
| 14:52.38 | Lopeppeppy | Soup is always better that way. |
| 14:53.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 14:57.06 | cogwheel | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmqhdozuf7Y <-- really makes you appreciate computer animation... |
| 15:02.04 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 15:02.16 | Aelo | im too disturbed to watch more than 10 seconds of that :p |
| 15:04.23 | Bruners | Trela: agreed |
| 15:09.46 | ckknight | synthesizes |
| 15:10.36 | Trela | raises the roof! |
| 15:14.02 | Cairenn | cogwheel: I'll raise you a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOqFlynf8JA&feature=related |
| 15:14.26 | Cairenn | and the second part: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCRo_oyQDi8&feature=related |
| 15:14.53 | Cairenn | although yours is still trippier |
| 15:15.49 | Ackis | ~rlart |
| 15:15.50 | purl | shoves a crumpet down Maldivia's throat, happy now?! Huh? Want some JAM with that? |
| 15:17.05 | Trela | ~lart Ackis |
| 15:17.05 | purl | follow's Ackis with a gauntlet and ... scratch ... HUMILIATION |
| 15:18.35 | Ackis | RAWR |
| 15:18.42 | Ackis | ~lart Trela |
| 15:18.42 | purl | turns Trela into a lifesized tux doll |
| 15:18.47 | Ackis | pwwnt |
| 15:18.57 | harl | wufff |
| 15:19.13 | Trela | squeaks, does penguin stuff, roots Ackis' box. |
| 15:21.00 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@85.108.34.95.customer.cdi.no) |
| 15:21.02 | Wobin | woo |
| 15:21.09 | Wobin | Psychonauts for $10 at GoG |
| 15:21.46 | Kalroth | Wobin: You could have spent that money on a pet!! |
| 15:21.54 | Wobin | true |
| 15:21.55 | Cairenn | oh, hey Wobin, did you know that Simon's Cat has a website? http://www.simonscat.com/ |
| 15:21.59 | Wobin | zomg |
| 15:22.02 | Wobin | I <3 simonscat |
| 15:22.04 | Cairenn | YAY! |
| 15:22.13 | Cairenn | errr, Yeah! |
| 15:22.21 | Wobin | Simon's cat is awesome |
| 15:22.25 | Wobin | and Cat |
| 15:22.54 | Cairenn | and on that silly note, this chickie shall now go sleep, given it's 10:20am |
| 15:26.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan@c-76-107-191-65.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 15:26.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 15:32.14 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@adsl-070-154-141-184.sip.bna.bellsouth.net) |
| 15:32.17 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 15:32.55 | *** join/#wowuidev reid99 (n=reid85@CPE001cdf73661f-CM001ceacec55e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 15:35.03 | Ackis | simons cat is pretty cool |
| 15:35.59 | Trela | <Ackis' Cat> I see you cheating one me! |
| 15:36.36 | Ackis | Trela: I have 4 cats, you need to pick one |
| 15:36.45 | Trela | :O |
| 15:36.50 | Ackis | and it's funny they get pissed off if they smell another cat on me heh |
| 15:39.36 | Fisker | slaps Ackis around a bit with a large trout |
| 15:39.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (n=ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 15:42.24 | zenzelezz | <Ackis> and it's funny they get pissed off if they smell another cat on me heh <--- and girlfriends don't get pissed off if you smell like another girl? |
| 15:45.21 | Ackis | I fart to cover it up :D |
| 15:45.37 | Seerah | oooh, I'm telling! |
| 15:45.43 | Ackis | so a NHL hockey team here in Alberta (Flames) jumped the H1N1 queue and got the entire team vaccinated lol |
| 15:45.55 | Lopeppeppy | Lovely. |
| 15:46.23 | zenzelezz | I still don't get the hype |
| 15:46.52 | Ackis | http://www.eclips.gov.ab.ca/fpweb/fp.dll/$valberta/htm/x_dv.htm/_id/1253377921/_u/rangek/_k/pm7gAvfeehCKJ93n |
| 15:47.04 | Lopeppeppy | It's scary, for sure. But fame should not win you preference over people who can die from it. |
| 15:47.20 | Ackis | zenzelezz: vaccines are limited, the city police aren't even given priority, yet a hockey team was |
| 15:47.23 | zenzelezz | I don't find it any more scary than a regular flu |
| 15:47.36 | zenzelezz | Ackis: I know, we're having the same situation over here |
| 15:47.50 | zenzelezz | I just don't get why everyone's acting like it's the plague again |
| 15:48.04 | Seerah | One of my piano students was out one week for it. Her opinion "it wasn't so bad" |
| 15:48.19 | alestane | I can see one reason to vaccinate sports teams though...they travel a lot and come into contact with other groups of people who travel a lot. |
| 15:48.49 | zenzelezz | especially all the 18-year-old fangurls |
| 15:48.51 | Ackis | zenzelezz: the main issue behind it is this flu has the same characteristics of the spanish flu which killed a shit load of people, I agree, I think the panic/etc is retarded however |
| 15:49.36 | zenzelezz | for all I care it could have the same characteristics as Barbara Streisand and I still wouldn't feel worried |
| 15:50.00 | Ackis | it just has the potential to be bad is basically the worry |
| 15:50.15 | Lopeppeppy | alestane, there's no reason to vaccinate someone healthy, no matter how much they travel, over someone who is at risk and could die from the flu. |
| 15:50.34 | Ackis | is at risk! :D |
| 15:50.35 | Lopeppeppy | It's all hype hype hype. |
| 15:50.39 | Ackis | I haven't got vaccinated yet hah |
| 15:50.45 | Ackis | just normal flu vaccination though |
| 15:50.58 | Ackis | I'm hoping I can get it so I can play dragon age for a week... :P |
| 15:51.04 | zenzelezz | stays cool with Lopeppeppy |
| 15:51.30 | alestane | Unless it helps cut down on circulation in the first place. If it helps keep the virus from moving into new areas, it makes at least a little sense. Maybe not enough to beat other reasons, but a little. |
| 15:51.31 | Lopeppeppy | Ackis, my boss is at a funeral for someone he lost to H1N1. Don't wish to have it. Wish to get dengali fever or something else. |
| 15:51.32 | nevcairiel | i never got any flu vaccination ever, fwiw :P its all overrated |
| 15:52.07 | Lopeppeppy | The virus is gonna circulate whether one full-of-themselves hockey team travels or not. If one pregnant woman dies because she didn't get the vaccine, there will be hell to pay. End of story. |
| 15:52.47 | alestane | "We won't be able to contain it, so why bother trying?" |
| 15:53.03 | zenzelezz | my country has a higher death ratio to H1N1 than any other European country I think |
| 15:53.11 | Ackis | I tried to get pregnant but it just didn't work :( |
| 15:53.14 | nevcairiel | More people die to the normal flu every year, its all just panic |
| 15:53.24 | Lopeppeppy | Exactly. Panic and entitlement. |
| 15:54.02 | nevcairiel | Actually a doctor even said he would rather get H1N1 then the "default" flu, since its over faster |
| 15:54.25 | zenzelezz | I thought there was myriads of flu strands every year |
| 15:54.44 | Lopeppeppy | Mutations of a few key strands. |
| 15:55.13 | nevcairiel | The only difference is the infectiesness that is greater with H1N1, other then that, its just another flu |
| 15:55.39 | alestane | It's probably not the reason the team wanted it, I agree...but it might be the reason some supplier agreed. |
| 15:56.05 | Lopeppeppy | Ethics are an endangered species. |
| 15:56.31 | nevcairiel | But hey, if i wanted to, i could get vaccinated right away, they got enough vaccine to vaccinated everyone around here =P |
| 15:56.36 | zenzelezz | the Belgian producer of Tamiflu (the vaccine the Norwegian authorities settled on) had an accident during production, crushed (or broke, or something) 170'000 doses out of a delivery of 370'000 :-p |
| 15:57.00 | alestane | And given that someone did let them jump the queue, I prefer to think they rationalized it for a nominally ethical reason, rather than because someone handed them a suitcase full of money. |
| 15:57.33 | Ackis | alestane: the reasoning behind it was to avoid the issues with an entire hockey team lining up in a public line (aka fans, etc) |
| 15:57.57 | Lopeppeppy | Rationalization is almost by definition not truly ethical. |
| 15:57.58 | alestane | That's not completely stupid but it is kind of silly. |
| 15:58.16 | nevcairiel | first of all its unfair :P |
| 15:58.19 | Lopeppeppy | Very silly. President Obama hasn't had the vaccine, how public is he? |
| 15:58.28 | Lopeppeppy | Get over your precious selves. |
| 15:59.13 | Ackis | Lopeppeppy: I could argue that a hockey team is a lot more important than obama :P |
| 15:59.34 | nevcairiel | sports teams and important? |
| 15:59.39 | nevcairiel | now that is silly |
| 15:59.45 | Ackis | nevcairiel: more important than obama :P |
| 16:00.53 | Lopeppeppy | Nobody is important enough to circumvent the public health rules for their own convenience. |
| 16:02.02 | Ackis | you... missed... the.... joke |
| 16:02.04 | Ackis | ~bonk Lopeppeppy |
| 16:02.05 | purl | ACTION bonks ackis on behalf of Lopeppeppy |
| 16:02.10 | Ackis | ... |
| 16:02.12 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 16:02.21 | nevcairiel | ~botsnack |
| 16:02.21 | purl | nevcairiel: aw, gee |
| 16:02.23 | Fisker | slaps nevcairiel around a bit with a large trout |
| 16:03.09 | alestane | Gonna say, I think that was intended to be more a comment on the president's usefulness or lack thereof. |
| 16:03.42 | Lopeppeppy | Meh. It annoys me when fame and money get you things that people who need them can't get. |
| 16:04.02 | Ackis | isn't that the fundamental concept behind being american? |
| 16:04.11 | nevcairiel | I thought it was |
| 16:04.15 | alestane | No, not really. |
| 16:04.40 | Ackis | nevcairiel: what type of economy/gov't is germany? |
| 16:04.45 | Lopeppeppy | Think again. President did NOT jump line and get a vaccination. It is not some fundamental concept or right, and people everywhere need to stop letting it be. |
| 16:05.11 | nevcairiel | Maybe its not the fundamental concept, its still how big parts of the US just work |
| 16:05.34 | Ackis | Lopeppeppy: you're isolating it to "queue" jumping, how many CEOs have done it? There's more powerful people in the US than the president :P |
| 16:05.49 | alestane | Well, when you let people manage themselves, a great deal of weight inevitably falls behind the controllers of the economy. |
| 16:07.57 | Lopeppeppy | Which makes me go aargh, alestane. |
| 16:08.19 | nevcairiel | Ackis: democratic of course, some federalism but very simple compared to what the US states decide on their own, and compared to the US, we're big on social support, public health care, and all that |
| 16:08.32 | Lopeppeppy | If just one at risk person dies because immunizations were abused somewhere else in the chain, and they weren't able to get theirs.... |
| 16:09.11 | Ackis | nevcairiel: was wondering if it was socialist, martket, etc |
| 16:09.34 | Fisker | you just ordered a thousand metric ton of trouts Ackis |
| 16:09.54 | Ackis | oh? |
| 16:10.14 | Fisker | slaps Ackis around a bit with a large trout |
| 16:10.18 | Fisker | there's one |
| 16:10.46 | nevcairiel | Ackis: economic, well, we're considered to be the largest in europe, of course that only works if you go with a free market, more or less .. of course controlling authorities are in place, stricter then in the US due to the EU guidelines and all that, but still |
| 16:13.35 | Legorol | Lopeppeppy: i'd actually argue that the president is important enough to get special treatment. He gets it all the time in many different forms, and it should include healthcare as well |
| 16:13.50 | Legorol | If he were to fall ill/get injured, he'd receive the best possible medical care there is, I'm sure |
| 16:13.54 | alestane | One of the great questions surrounding health care is whether the producers of health care do so because they desire for people to be well, or because the sick desire to be well. |
| 16:14.12 | Legorol | There are hundreds of bodyguards protecting him, that's also a form of healthcare |
| 16:14.16 | nevcairiel | the producers of health care desire to make money |
| 16:14.26 | alestane | That is, are you providing a service, or selling a product? |
| 16:14.43 | nevcairiel | well are you talking doctors or pharma industry? :P |
| 16:15.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 16:17.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew_a (n=Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 16:17.53 | Industrial | 'ill operate you if you let me date your mom' |
| 16:18.18 | Industrial | on you |
| 16:18.44 | alestane | The reason economic clout grants power is because it brings with it the ability to bring resources to bear on a problem. |
| 16:20.23 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 16:20.23 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 16:21.59 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (i=spode@213-21-88-111.bon.t3.se) |
| 16:24.24 | Lopeppeppy | Hungry. |
| 16:24.29 | Lopeppeppy | And I don't like Outlook 2007, not at all. |
| 16:24.58 | zenzelezz | you shouldn't be eating e-mail programs, they're full of viruses |
| 16:25.10 | Lopeppeppy | That's why I don't like it. |
| 16:28.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C06A6.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 16:28.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@2506ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 16:31.26 | Adys | Could someone tell me why Google Wave's scrollbars are.. weird |
| 16:34.01 | kd3 | because they're using their own instead of the browser's? |
| 16:34.03 | kd3 | NIH is fun |
| 16:34.07 | Adys | I know that |
| 16:34.08 | Adys | but |
| 16:34.12 | Adys | what's the benefit? |
| 16:41.27 | Adys | jnwhiteh: ping |
| 16:45.40 | cog|work | http://www.youtube.com/user/simonscat |
| 16:45.45 | cog|work | Cairenn|afk: ^ |
| 16:46.06 | cog|work | (the source of the one i shared on FB) |
| 16:51.54 | cog|work | ONE MORE SLEEPS!!! |
| 16:56.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 16:56.21 | Lunessa | station |
| 16:58.17 | durcyn | is that Simon's Cat, or Simon Scat? ain't clicking it until you answer. |
| 16:58.26 | Lopeppeppy | Simon's Cat |
| 16:58.33 | Lopeppeppy | Heya, Lunessa. |
| 16:59.03 | Lunessa | ... durcyn understandable caution there |
| 16:59.07 | Lunessa | huggles lope |
| 16:59.20 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: Tab failed me |
| 16:59.34 | Lopeppeppy | I see that it did. *laugh* If you were going to shorten it manually, it would have been Peppy. |
| 16:59.47 | Lunessa | Now my Tab key must face the Disintegration Chamber! |
| 17:00.56 | Lopeppeppy | Oooh, fun. |
| 17:01.06 | alestane | Get the agonizers. |
| 17:01.38 | Lunessa | I already have the little beard. I must be the Evil Lunessa. |
| 17:04.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 17:06.33 | Lopeppeppy | Oh noes! |
| 17:07.00 | *** join/#wowuidev ArrowmasterClass (n=arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 17:13.12 | alestane | Evil is underrated. |
| 17:14.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (n=pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 17:15.47 | Ackis | lol |
| 17:15.54 | Ackis | someone saw this magazine sold at an airport: http://twitpic.com/odg5h |
| 17:19.25 | ArrowmasterClass | did you even notice who posted that? |
| 17:25.47 | Ackis | yes |
| 17:25.54 | Ackis | xbox 360 duder |
| 17:26.18 | Lunessa | alestane: Evil is good. |
| 17:31.01 | Kraps | i just watched Coraline, thats shits scary |
| 17:31.28 | Lopeppeppy | The buttons drive me crazy |
| 17:34.52 | zenzelezz | pushes Lopeppeppy's buttons |
| 17:35.32 | TC-Away | watches zenzelezz die |
| 17:36.29 | Thunder_Child | Lopeppeppy, on a scale of 1 to 10 tell me how interested you are in todays woot. |
| 17:36.52 | Lopeppeppy | I don't even know what it is, so I'd say zero. |
| 17:36.59 | Thunder_Child | http://www.woot.com/ |
| 17:37.03 | Thunder_Child | take a gander |
| 17:37.38 | Kraps | Pan's Labyrinth is in french? |
| 17:37.59 | Lopeppeppy | Spanish. With subtitles. |
| 17:38.08 | Lopeppeppy | I have a footwarmer already TC, thanks. Still a zero. |
| 17:38.25 | Thunder_Child | Lopeppeppy, if you didnt? |
| 17:38.49 | Ackis | spore on facebook :| |
| 17:38.50 | Lopeppeppy | I still wouldn't want a shiatsu looking thing. Footwarmers are for putting your feet into, not on top of, with pointy bits. |
| 17:39.07 | Lopeppeppy | I could re-roast St. Lawrence on that thing. |
| 17:39.17 | Thunder_Child | "Surface bumps on the tops and sides of the heater provide passive foot massage and promotes better posture" |
| 17:39.19 | Thunder_Child | moo |
| 17:39.40 | Lopeppeppy | No. |
| 17:39.43 | Lopeppeppy | Just no. |
| 17:39.48 | Thunder_Child | but i got my answer, so thanks anyway |
| 17:40.00 | Lopeppeppy | Bumps will concentrate the heat, making burns more likely, IMO. |
| 17:40.21 | Lunessa | I think Lopeppeppy wants her foot massages the old-fashioned way. From a good-looking fella with an oiled chest and amazing stamina. |
| 17:40.56 | Thunder_Child | soooo...never gonna get one, gotcha |
| 17:41.00 | Lopeppeppy | Mine is more like this. http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Scholls-DRMA7801-Warming-Massager/dp/B001AFJ0MS/ |
| 17:41.16 | Lopeppeppy | Not exactly, but that's the idea. Feets go inside the fuzzy furry warm spot. |
| 17:42.44 | Thunder_Child | if i did that i would forget that it doesnt move and mess something up |
| 17:42.55 | Thunder_Child | like me |
| 17:43.16 | jnwhiteh | Adys: poing |
| 17:43.33 | Adys | jnwhiteh: http://wowprogramming.com/docs/scripts/OnHyperlinkEnter |
| 17:43.56 | *** join/#wowuidev kdtresh|work (n=kdtresh|@76.212.99.109) |
| 17:46.39 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:49.20 | jnwhiteh | Adys: thanks, fixed. |
| 17:52.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 17:52.49 | Lunessa | Thunder_Child: I try not to keep anything in the house that will slip past my defenses and cause massive injury in a moment of inattention. |
| 17:53.13 | Thunder_Child | Lunessa, your house must be rather bare then |
| 17:53.38 | Thunder_Child | since any large peice of furniture can do that |
| 17:54.09 | Lunessa | Thunder_Child: Yeah, because my massive moron-ity requires careful nurturing. At the rate I'm going, I'll be you in a few years. |
| 17:54.33 | Thunder_Child | it will take longer than that Lunessa, even for you |
| 17:54.46 | zenzelezz | http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/movie-thread.png |
| 17:54.49 | Lunessa | Yeah, I need to grow hair on my head to be you. |
| 17:55.09 | Thunder_Child | and hide from tekkub |
| 17:56.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 17:56.56 | Thunder_Child | hmmm...get the ember or chaotic cut |
| 17:57.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelo_ (n=chatzill@85.210.121.84) |
| 17:58.47 | Thunder_Child | http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/tfr/1452692113.html |
| 17:59.03 | Thunder_Child | that seems so shady |
| 18:01.08 | jnwhiteh | why? |
| 18:01.11 | jnwhiteh | its west hollywood ;-) |
| 18:01.30 | Thunder_Child | that changes nothing! |
| 18:01.32 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 18:01.58 | NightHawkTheSane | it kind of changes everything. southern california is certifiable. |
| 18:02.15 | nevcairiel | anyone getting the Motorola Droid in the US tomorrow? |
| 18:02.32 | Thunder_Child | it's a 10 min walk from where i live to west hollywood, things dont magicly change when you get there |
| 18:02.40 | Fisker | hey Antiarc you there still? |
| 18:05.01 | ccox | This is not the Droid you are looking for... wait for 3.0 |
| 18:05.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 18:07.59 | Lunessa | Haha... I'm too bald for tekkub. I'm too straight for him too. |
| 18:10.30 | zenzelezz | too human |
| 18:11.37 | Ackis | http://mynews.ctv.ca/mediadetail/1589692?q=fire&offset=0&siteT= :( |
| 18:11.48 | Ackis | that's my house complex, I didn't even know there was a fire there yesterday |
| 18:13.40 | Thunder_Child | it seems silly to say the woman was walking her kids to school when she had not even walked out the front door |
| 18:14.12 | ArrowmasterClass | zenzelezz: rofl at that movie thing |
| 18:14.21 | ArrowmasterClass | which is so bad because im loling in class |
| 18:14.30 | Ackis | so there's a 50% chance my "house" was on fire :( lol |
| 18:15.19 | Ackis | 100% chance it was us hah |
| 18:15.25 | Ackis | 3 doors down in the attached complex |
| 18:19.38 | Lopeppeppy | TTFN, peoples! |
| 18:20.07 | zenzelezz | snuggles Lopeppeppy |
| 18:20.54 | cog|work | ccox: por que? |
| 18:21.23 | cog|work | (i was looking for an excuse to use that quote in relation to droid, but ... it really is the droid i'm looking for :P ) |
| 18:21.37 | ccox | cog - humor value, and I know too many google employees :-) |
| 18:22.35 | cog|work | so will current devices with 1.x be upgradeable to 2.0? |
| 18:22.43 | ArrowmasterClass | ccox: get one of them to fix my google apps accounts |
| 18:22.52 | Ackis | heh someone was bitching about bioware not supporting "US Troops" because there are some issues with APO addresses. They went on a tirade about how unamerican it was, etc... my response "BioWare is a Canadian company" :D |
| 18:22.53 | nevcairiel | cog|work: yes |
| 18:23.02 | ccox | ArrowmasterClass: don't know anyone in that group, sorry |
| 18:23.17 | ArrowmasterClass | know any in the voice group? |
| 18:23.40 | NightHawkTheSane | cog|work: i guess it depends on carrier, and i've heard some older hardware might not have the specs to run it, but probably? |
| 18:23.40 | Fisker | Anyone have any idea why my grid no longer shows a timer on raidstatusdebuffs? |
| 18:23.42 | ccox | ArrowmasterClass: only a server admin |
| 18:23.43 | nevcairiel | I was looking into buying the Droid, but its only out in 10 days in europe, so i'm looking for a USian that gets one tomorrow for hands-on-expierence :p |
| 18:24.05 | ccox | I'm waiting to compare the phones with the N900 |
| 18:24.17 | cog|work | bgr has about as good a set of reviews as you'll get out of any of us :P |
| 18:25.06 | Fisker | makes out with cog|work |
| 18:25.11 | cog|work | http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/11/03/motorola-droid-review/ |
| 18:25.15 | Fisker | x10 nevcairiel |
| 18:25.17 | Fisker | x10 |
| 18:25.42 | Fisker | the droid looks like an x1 |
| 18:25.58 | nevcairiel | I wish they would've put a faster CPU in it |
| 18:26.05 | nevcairiel | but thats about the only point i could find |
| 18:26.29 | ArrowmasterClass | trying to remember how much you need to download to run quakelive |
| 18:26.33 | ArrowmasterClass | ive got a laptop with me |
| 18:27.04 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: i wish the hardware keyboard didnt look like it cost a couple cents to make :( |
| 18:28.35 | ArrowmasterClass | i will admit to playing quakelive a year ago from this same room using vmware, it did not run well, but now its probably the slow ass wireless that would be bad |
| 18:28.51 | NightHawkTheSane | course i also wish carriers weren't greedy douches, so i suppose my i'm just crazy |
| 18:29.14 | nevcairiel | well they actually said in the most reviews that the keyboard is actually better then it looks |
| 18:29.52 | NightHawkTheSane | i've seen reviews go both ways. *shrug* |
| 18:30.15 | Aelo | how would you convert a table into a list? |
| 18:30.22 | nevcairiel | what i didnt find out yet, that doesnt have location sensors, does it? |
| 18:30.24 | alestane | Aelo: Context? |
| 18:30.26 | nevcairiel | for auto-rotate? |
| 18:30.51 | Aelo | im wanting to return all the indices of a table in a function |
| 18:30.55 | ArrowmasterClass | im downloading at 2.2KB/s............. |
| 18:30.56 | Aelo | so like return 1, 2, 3, 4 |
| 18:30.59 | ArrowmasterClass | what the fuck |
| 18:31.04 | alestane | unpack(t) |
| 18:31.08 | Aelo | ty |
| 18:31.20 | ArrowmasterClass | i get faster than that using my ssh tunnel to my home computer from the wired network |
| 18:32.17 | Aelo | alestane: that's giving me the values, is there a way to get the indices? or should i pairs() and put indices into a new table? |
| 18:32.56 | ArrowmasterClass | the indices are the order they are returned |
| 18:33.11 | Aelo | aye but it's not a 1...n table |
| 18:33.14 | ArrowmasterClass | unpack only works on arrays |
| 18:33.42 | alestane | Then you'll have to roll your own using recursion. |
| 18:34.33 | Ackis | http://www.toplessrobot.com/SpbPQ.jpg <-- D&D alignments explained for idiots. |
| 18:35.05 | Ackis | I don't get true neutral and chaotic neutral however |
| 18:38.38 | NightHawkTheSane | im not sure i'd call most of those accurate. |
| 18:39.51 | Pneumatus | indiana jones is lawful good |
| 18:40.27 | Dagmar | Fighting Nazis doesn't necessarily automatically make you 'good'. |
| 18:40.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:40.31 | NightHawkTheSane | i'd have said neutal good, but at the least, not * neutral |
| 18:40.33 | Dagmar | It just means you don't like nazis |
| 18:40.37 | kdtresh|work | stealing artifacts from temples is lawful? |
| 18:40.57 | Dagmar | Stealing to put in a museum. |
| 18:41.07 | kdtresh|work | still stealing |
| 18:41.07 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: no, but he was, generally, a fairly good person i think |
| 18:41.12 | Dagmar | Besides if the artifacts were all that important, actual people would be watching it |
| 18:41.46 | kdtresh|work | whether or not someone is standing guard doesn't determine the legality of theft |
| 18:42.10 | Dagmar | Yes, but when you're asking "what's in it for me" like Indy does, then you're not driven by good. |
| 18:42.26 | Dagmar | Indy was a neut |
| 18:43.11 | Twisol | ^ |
| 18:44.02 | NightHawkTheSane | but still, not lawful. |
| 18:44.20 | kdtresh|work | i would say tending toward chaotic |
| 18:44.22 | Dagmar | Yes, lawful. |
| 18:44.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Kowski (n=ykow@pv130242.reshsg.uci.edu) |
| 18:44.42 | kdtresh|work | well, maybe not too chaotic |
| 18:44.51 | kdtresh|work | he wasn't encouraging it |
| 18:44.52 | Dagmar | You are confusing "lawful" and "obeying laws". |
| 18:44.54 | kdtresh|work | just kinda landed in it |
| 18:44.54 | Dagmar | They are not the same thing. |
| 18:45.01 | NightHawkTheSane | as i said, either neutral good or true neutral |
| 18:45.46 | Dagmar | 'lawful' alignment doesn't really have anything to do with municipal statutes and so forth |
| 18:46.20 | Shirik | Why do people say "and/or" when they should just say "and" |
| 18:46.34 | Shirik | "My email address is <x> and/or <y>" |
| 18:46.39 | Shirik | No, it's both. It's not only one sometimes. |
| 18:46.39 | Dagmar | ...or would you like to argue that Darth Vader wasn't lawful evil, because blowing up effing planets and slaughtering people tends to be against the law |
| 18:46.58 | Dagmar | It is at this point where I willl tell you to just straighten your plastic spock ears and STFU if so |
| 18:47.19 | NightHawkTheSane | its not against the law, because he kind of was the law. |
| 18:47.32 | Dagmar | Got nothing to do with laws |
| 18:47.41 | kdtresh|work | what does it have to do with? |
| 18:47.42 | NightHawkTheSane | not everything, but not nothing |
| 18:48.38 | alestane | Shirik: I think they intend to convey that you'll generally only use one in that case, even though both are valid options. |
| 18:48.47 | Dagmar | It has to do with whether or not someone follows a set _of_ rules for self-governance |
| 18:48.56 | alestane | And "or" is typically used to mean "xor". |
| 18:49.14 | Dagmar | lawful characters will exhibit consistent behaviour because they're following their own internal rules |
| 18:49.16 | Shirik | right, but his email address does not ever be one or the other |
| 18:49.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Riffage (n=nnscript@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:49.18 | Shirik | it is both |
| 18:49.30 | Shirik | The person sending this email always tries to sound like he knows what he's talking about, and rarely does |
| 18:49.39 | Dagmar | Now straighten 'dem ears |
| 18:49.40 | Shirik | and it's starting to get annoying |
| 18:49.43 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: i'd go into this, but a) i dont care, b) i'm at work. but you're basically only half right. |
| 18:49.49 | Fisker | wat |
| 18:49.53 | NightHawkTheSane | and thats the last thing i have to say |
| 18:49.55 | Fisker | my authenticator code was 000000 |
| 18:49.57 | zenzelezz | Dagmar: wish D&D-based games would've just put it that clearly before; I could never figure the lawful/chaotic/neutral thing |
| 18:49.58 | Fisker | oh |
| 18:50.00 | Fisker | 000008 |
| 18:50.01 | Fisker | still |
| 18:50.03 | Dagmar | NightHawkTheSane: No, I spent too much time listening to complete nerds argue it to death at gaming cons |
| 18:50.04 | Shirik | fail Fisker |
| 18:50.24 | NightHawkTheSane | Dagmar: good, you wont have to worry about listening to me, because i'm not |
| 18:50.27 | NightHawkTheSane | i disagree, and that sit. |
| 18:50.31 | Dagmar | Okay |
| 18:50.32 | alestane | Of course, in 4E you just have Lawful Good, good, unaligned, evil, chaotic evil. |
| 18:50.49 | NightHawkTheSane | zenzelezz: you don't actually have to understand it. alignment is a bad idea in any game |
| 18:51.18 | Ackis | NightHawkTheSane: U R RONG /fueltofire |
| 18:51.27 | Twisol | anyone know where I can find reference material on ScrollChild widgets? |
| 18:51.37 | Shirik | I generally prefer games in which all sides are good |
| 18:51.41 | Shirik | they just have a different view of the world |
| 18:51.54 | Shirik | and how things should be |
| 18:52.01 | alestane | e.g. WoW. |
| 18:52.02 | Twisol | Shirik: the Alliance and Horde come fairly close to that, don't they? |
| 18:52.05 | Shirik | yup |
| 18:52.13 | Shirik | but there's a lot more than WoW that does that |
| 18:52.27 | NightHawkTheSane | i dunno, there's definably evil sides in wow. |
| 18:52.27 | Twisol | well, the Burning Crusade is evil plain and simple... |
| 18:52.34 | Shirik | they aren't a PC :P |
| 18:52.38 | Twisol | heheh. |
| 18:52.39 | NightHawkTheSane | i dont think the lich king has any illusions of himself being good. |
| 18:52.40 | alestane | Oh yes...a lot of games prefer to express it in terms of "This group values THESE things." |
| 18:53.02 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: you didnt specify pc sides only. :P |
| 18:53.03 | *** join/#wowuidev AbsolutRayne (n=chatzill@XPLR-MCI-74-127-239-30.barrettxplore.com) |
| 18:53.07 | Shirik | well that's what I mean |
| 18:53.31 | NightHawkTheSane | if we're talking about pc-only, then MOST games are basically just everyone's good. |
| 18:53.42 | AbsolutRayne | Wheres the best zone for Copper? I want to start powerleveling my Rogues Engi before ICC comes out |
| 18:54.11 | Shirik | mm, I don't know about that |
| 18:54.16 | Shirik | I'd say maybe 50/50 |
| 18:54.59 | Shirik | I also prefer games with 3 sides |
| 18:55.01 | Shirik | not 2 |
| 18:55.06 | NightHawkTheSane | nah, the most common theme for the player in any game is to be the good guy. a non-insignificant portion of games take an alternate tack, but its not a majority by any means |
| 18:55.10 | Shirik | 3 PC sides |
| 18:56.41 | Dagmar | I'm likin' Dragon Age: Origins |
| 18:57.05 | Ackis | Dagmar: no u |
| 18:57.06 | Dagmar | I think they were pretty much full of crap about the whole 'open-ended' morality thing, but at least it lets me smart off to NPCs I don't like |
| 18:57.17 | Twisol | any idea how I can tell how far down the default Quest Log is scrolled? I need a way to ascertain what the first visible quest on the list is. |
| 18:57.45 | Dagmar | Usually when someone says "no right or wrong answers" it means "what you do only changes the game end dialog" |
| 18:58.04 | NightHawkTheSane | if that |
| 18:58.17 | Dagmar | It also helps that Claudia Black did voiceovers |
| 18:58.21 | Shirik | If I want a shell script to run whenever someone logs in, I should set their login script to that and call "bash" etc at the end, right? |
| 18:58.30 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (n=krka@c-177ae155.159-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 18:58.48 | Dagmar | Shirik: login "script"? Don't you mean login _shell_? |
| 18:58.54 | Shirik | whatever |
| 18:59.12 | Lunessa | Shirik is used to thinking in Wondows terms. I understood him. |
| 18:59.31 | alestane | Usually their shell auto-runs a particular script in ~/ when it launches. |
| 18:59.35 | Dagmar | yeah well considering that the login shell does call a login _script_ generally, I needed to be sure |
| 18:59.43 | Lunessa | Also, anyone here used the Palm Pre? I'm desperate for a new phone and want to consider all the options. |
| 18:59.55 | Dagmar | Note that there are ways to start a different shell |
| 19:00.07 | Shirik | my goal is to chroot the user |
| 19:00.16 | Shirik | to jail them |
| 19:00.23 | Lunessa | Dagmar: This I know. I have, more than once, been a Linux user. |
| 19:00.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Pewpewarrows (n=Pewpewar@c-68-33-19-176.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 19:01.00 | Dagmar | Shirik: There's a way to invoke bash as rbash for a restricted shell like that |
| 19:01.59 | Dagmar | You want to use rbash, not a script that calls bash. They'll be far less likely to be able to easily escape the chroot |
| 19:02.19 | Shirik | now that I think about it, they shouldn't need to log in |
| 19:02.24 | Shirik | just going to set it to /bin/false |
| 19:02.26 | Dagmar | Even better |
| 19:02.36 | cog|work | http://twitpic.com/odqzk |
| 19:02.42 | Shirik | I love how the file /etc/passwd doesn't contain passwords at all |
| 19:02.51 | Shirik | my favorite part of Linux |
| 19:02.52 | nevcairiel | it used to |
| 19:02.57 | Shirik | ah |
| 19:02.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew_a (n=Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 19:02.58 | nevcairiel | was insecure, so it was moved |
| 19:03.00 | Shirik | ok it makes a little more sense |
| 19:03.06 | cog|work | Lunessa: s/here// imo |
| 19:03.13 | nevcairiel | its now in /etc/shadow, iirc |
| 19:03.17 | Shirik | yah |
| 19:03.44 | cog|work | all the reviews i've seen are unanimously positive, except for the lack of apps and the fact that it's sprint |
| 19:03.56 | cog|work | but the sales have been pitiful |
| 19:04.00 | Shirik | :/ |
| 19:04.17 | nevcairiel | i dont like the pres layout |
| 19:04.18 | Shirik | For a couple of seconds there I kept thinking "did cog|work leave off an 'f' and what does sprintf have to do with phones" |
| 19:04.26 | Shirik | Took me a while to figure it out :/ |
| 19:04.29 | wereHamster | Shirik: you are aware that one can escape from chroot, right? |
| 19:04.35 | cog|work | drops Shirik's pin |
| 19:04.46 | Shirik | wereHamster: In a correctly configured system? |
| 19:04.49 | nevcairiel | chrooting local users isnt an easy and secure task |
| 19:05.01 | nevcairiel | once you give them a local account, you can usually assume they do wtf they want |
| 19:05.25 | Shirik | Well nobody said they were getting the account :) |
| 19:05.34 | wereHamster | Shirik: also, you need to be root to use chroot (so you can't do it automatically from within a user script) |
| 19:05.40 | Shirik | app using the account would work too |
| 19:05.43 | Lunessa | cog|work: Thanks. The driod phones from TMobile don't support WiFi/PEAP so I'm looking at the Pre, iPhone or a different Blackberry (oh and a non TMobile carrier) |
| 19:05.49 | Shirik | really? |
| 19:05.53 | Shirik | What the heck is the purpose of that? |
| 19:06.05 | Twisol | O_o |
| 19:06.19 | Dagmar | Uhhh 'cuz changing / is a root-kinda thing |
| 19:06.28 | nevcairiel | Is it true that Droids in the US even come without 3G? |
| 19:06.31 | Shirik | it's not like it affects everyone else |
| 19:06.31 | nevcairiel | i read that somewhere |
| 19:06.34 | Dagmar | Either way, this is one of the things that's useful abotu rbash. It can chroot and then drop privs |
| 19:06.50 | Lunessa | Oh, and Kari + Guns = hawt |
| 19:07.06 | kd3 | selinux can do a great job locking down too |
| 19:07.08 | wereHamster | Shirik: might be easier if you explain why you want to chroot users |
| 19:07.20 | Shirik | I don't need to anymore, so I can't really explain that to you |
| 19:07.27 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 19:07.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 19:07.27 | Shirik | ftp is much easier |
| 19:07.35 | wereHamster | problem solved then :) |
| 19:08.18 | Twisol | blaast iiit. Does anyone have a decent way to tell which quest in the quest log is the first one visible? |
| 19:08.49 | Twisol | it's a faux scroll frame, so this is causing me problems... |
| 19:08.54 | Dagmar | Shirik: Why you need root for that is a looong answer |
| 19:09.22 | NightHawkTheSane | Twisol: find the frame/object/whatever thats the first item in the list, and read what quest it is? |
| 19:10.03 | Shirik | and now I have no clue what FTP server I have installed |
| 19:10.10 | NightHawkTheSane | if its a FSF, i believe it doesn't actually create new frames/objects/whatever for each item, only for displayed items |
| 19:10.27 | NightHawkTheSane | that might still be a pita though *shrug* |
| 19:10.28 | Twisol | NightHawkTheSane: I need an index into the list of quests, though - something I can use against GetNumQuestLogEntries() so I can begin at the right quest |
| 19:10.32 | Twisol | it is |
| 19:10.56 | Twisol | it would work properly if it wasn't a FSF, but since it is, I have to deal with the scrolling differently |
| 19:11.12 | cog|work | Lunessa: have you followed the motorola droid? I know you've been away recently and they just started hyping it a week or two ago |
| 19:11.19 | Kraps | http://manbabies.com/popular |
| 19:11.24 | cog|work | comes out tomorrow |
| 19:11.34 | Lunessa | cog|work: I just read the review. |
| 19:14.04 | Lunessa | Right now I have a blackberry pearl on T-Mobile. At work (10 hours daily) I have no signal. It isn't going to get better - they've had 3 fing years to fix it. So another carrier is in the works. Verizon also has no fing signal... So I'm looking hard at Sprint and AT&T. :( At least "We get singnal." |
| 19:14.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow1722 (n=Miranda@bams-c172.cust.svensktbredband.se) |
| 19:14.54 | NightHawkTheSane | well hell, if those are your choices, just get an iphone ;) |
| 19:15.02 | Twisol | heheh. |
| 19:15.13 | cog|work | verizon's the only service that *barely* gets a signal at my work, though it's essentially not there. I cured it with google voice though ;) |
| 19:15.28 | Aeyan | The creepiness of the Palm Pre girl is enough to avoid one of those. |
| 19:15.54 | Dagmar | I have some plans for dealing with her |
| 19:16.35 | NightHawkTheSane | im pretty sure we dont need to know any more >.> |
| 19:16.44 | cog|work | Aeyan: O.o after googling i think i'm with you on that one >< |
| 19:17.00 | Aeyan | Hehe |
| 19:17.06 | Shirik | 500 OOPS: child died |
| 19:17.09 | Shirik | Awesome error message |
| 19:17.19 | Twisol | rofl. |
| 19:17.26 | Aeyan | Haha |
| 19:17.30 | NightHawkTheSane | first google suggest for "palm pre girl " is "palm pre girl creepy" |
| 19:17.38 | alestane | "OOPS"? |
| 19:17.47 | Twisol | object oriented problem solving? |
| 19:17.58 | Shirik | no, OOPS meaning "I f'ed something up" |
| 19:18.00 | Aeyan | Apparently I'm not the only one that thinks she's creepy. |
| 19:18.05 | Twisol | heheh |
| 19:18.40 | alestane | Well, that is the "internal server error" message. |
| 19:21.00 | Torhal | Aeyan: I keep seeing comparisons between her and the Borg queen. |
| 19:21.45 | Aeyan | It's less of a stretch than one might imagine |
| 19:23.48 | Dagmar | It's nothing that a handful of pills, some tequila, and a few badly chosen MySpace photos can't fix |
| 19:24.01 | NeoTron | NightHawkTheSane: heh |
| 19:24.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Ruck (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:24.58 | NeoTron | I Don't see why she's "creepy" though |
| 19:25.15 | Dagmar | Lack of eyebrows |
| 19:25.15 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 19:26.38 | Seerah | she has eyebrows... they're just not dark colored |
| 19:28.12 | NeoTron | I think the main reason for the "creepy" factor is how the hair is pulled back. |
| 19:28.26 | Dagmar | They're too hard to see compared to the other hair and skin |
| 19:28.48 | Shirik | ok new question |
| 19:28.56 | Shirik | Let us assume that I have chrooted the user to /foo/bar/baz |
| 19:29.00 | Dagmar | Unless you are Whoopi Goldberg, you can't generally get away with nearly invisible eyebrows |
| 19:29.02 | Shirik | (This is handled by another app, not me) |
| 19:29.25 | Shirik | I want to give them access to /foo/quux. So I made a symlink at /foo/bar/baz/a to /foo/quux but obviously that doesn't work |
| 19:29.33 | Shirik | So I tried a hardlink, but you can't do that for directoreis |
| 19:29.38 | Shirik | what else? |
| 19:30.03 | kd3 | create the directory in the chroot and hardlink the files you want |
| 19:30.08 | Dagmar | I think perhaps you are missing the point of a chroot |
| 19:30.27 | Shirik | problem is I want them to have access to 2 of about 6 different websites |
| 19:30.30 | Shirik | via ftp |
| 19:30.33 | Dagmar | You dont' really get to link your way out of it, which is mainly _the point_ |
| 19:30.47 | Shirik | I should be able to make a link prior to the chroot |
| 19:30.59 | Shirik | Just because of the way the filesystem works |
| 19:31.03 | Dagmar | Yeah, a hardlink, which isn't exactly a 'link' |
| 19:31.10 | Shirik | sure |
| 19:31.13 | Shirik | but I can't hardlink directories |
| 19:31.19 | Dagmar | You're right. You can't. |
| 19:31.21 | kd3 | points at his last line |
| 19:31.23 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (n=robotusc@50A2D944.flatrate.dk) |
| 19:31.26 | Dagmar | You get to create them in the chroot. |
| 19:31.30 | Shirik | kd3: That would fail if they need to make a file |
| 19:31.32 | Lunessa | Dagmar: I like the cut of your jib, mistger |
| 19:31.45 | Dagmar | You *have* to do that sort of thing when you use a chroot |
| 19:31.53 | kd3 | then you'll need to keep track of the files created and copy them out when the user's done |
| 19:31.54 | Dagmar | Anything not available inside there is well, not goign to be reachable |
| 19:31.55 | cog|work | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miLQmmOSfOU |
| 19:32.04 | Shirik | but it should be reachable |
| 19:32.08 | cog|work | best. gift. evar. |
| 19:32.10 | Shirik | just because you did a chroot doesn't mean it magically disappeared |
| 19:32.14 | Shirik | it's just inaccessible |
| 19:32.22 | Shirik | But if you know where it is physically, it should still be accessible |
| 19:32.27 | Dagmar | Shirik: So are other user's emails |
| 19:32.54 | Shirik | For example, just because you lock down a file, doesn't mean if you give me full access to the device I'm not still going to get it |
| 19:33.08 | Dagmar | No shit |
| 19:33.12 | Shirik | same thing here |
| 19:33.24 | Dagmar | This is why suid binaries inside chroots are generally left to the criminally insane |
| 19:33.57 | Dagmar | When you put something in a chroot 'jail' you're basically saying "This is all the access to files yer getting, buddy" |
| 19:34.18 | Shirik | right, now turn that into 2 directories they get |
| 19:34.34 | Dagmar | You may wind up having to create rather a lot inside the chroot |
| 19:34.42 | Shirik | sigh, I'll just make two users |
| 19:34.46 | kd3 | copy the directories in. chroot(). wait. when the user's done. copy what's in the chroot out |
| 19:34.53 | Shirik | no >< |
| 19:35.01 | kd3 | then a chroot is not going to work |
| 19:35.10 | Shirik | I'm not exactly doing a chroot |
| 19:35.14 | Dagmar | You could chroot them to where those directories are located |
| 19:35.16 | Shirik | I might be, I don't know |
| 19:35.19 | Shirik | the ftp server is |
| 19:35.48 | kd3 | so set up the ftp server to only have access to directories foo bar and baz? |
| 19:35.49 | Dagmar | ...or, and this is a better idea, have the thing wots logging write into the part of the filesystem that the chroot encloses |
| 19:35.51 | kd3 | hi2u selinux |
| 19:36.10 | Shirik | kd3: not an option :P |
| 19:38.47 | Dagmar | Shirik: Having given it some thought, the _shortest_ way I can think of to explain why you need root privs to do chroots mainly falls to "because the filesystem is actually part of the security model" |
| 19:39.21 | Lunessa | Dagmar: That's actually a pretty good way to put it. |
| 19:39.35 | *** join/#wowuidev mitchnull (n=mitchnul@catv3EC944A1.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 19:40.44 | Dagmar | It's been a ludicrously long time since I've done it, but I have vague memories of doing weird crap like generating phony /etc/passwd and /etc/group files in a chroot, then launching a suid binary inside the chroot with those phony files in it, and taking over the system from there |
| 19:41.19 | Lunessa | Mmmm... bootstrapping your way to elevated rights... the hard way |
| 19:41.19 | Twisol | O_o |
| 19:42.08 | Dagmar | It was an HP system |
| 19:42.10 | Shirik | that makes sense now |
| 19:42.23 | Dagmar | There wasn't anything about it that wasn't "the hard way" |
| 19:42.24 | Shirik | however it convinces me of yet another flaw in Linux |
| 19:42.32 | Shirik | Unix? |
| 19:42.37 | Dagmar | HP/UX |
| 19:42.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Ose|away (n=chatzill@wikia/Ose) |
| 19:42.50 | Ackis | tekkub: http://iamhilarious.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/bacon-coke1.jpg |
| 19:43.00 | Shirik | either way, the problem resides (or would reside) in Linux |
| 19:43.06 | Shirik | if chroot were usable by non-root users |
| 19:43.13 | Dagmar | This is why it's not |
| 19:43.19 | Shirik | and hence it is a flaw |
| 19:43.22 | Seerah | Ackis: wow |
| 19:43.50 | Shirik | I'll just add one more mark to "things Linux does wrong" (even if it's wider than Linux) |
| 19:44.00 | NightHawkTheSane | i think i got lost somewhere between "this is a problem if a" and "not a, so its a flaw" |
| 19:44.05 | Dagmar | Shirik: That's not wrong. Mere users can't reliably chroot |
| 19:44.18 | Dagmar | Hell, root can't reliably chroot |
| 19:44.24 | Shirik | They could if the filesystem was segregated |
| 19:44.42 | Shirik | The problem boils down to the high level of coupling with the filesystem |
| 19:44.45 | Dagmar | To permanently lose access to the "real" / you pretty much have to start as root and then drop privs so those resources are simply no longer accessible |
| 19:45.02 | Shirik | Which, in all honesty, is a theme in Linux |
| 19:45.07 | Shirik | a lot of things are very coupled together |
| 19:45.20 | Shirik | Perhaps this is why I dislike C programmers |
| 19:45.42 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: you generally dislike anything you didnt think of first. ) |
| 19:45.44 | NightHawkTheSane | ;) |
| 19:45.56 | Dagmar | You mean, you have a problem with the fact that doing complex, advanced things requires complex, advanced techniques? |
| 19:45.57 | Shirik | Not entirely, but it's no secret that I don't like Linux |
| 19:46.23 | Shirik | no, I have a problem with the fact that the solution to the problem was "let's give them all this knowledge about each other" which is totally the C way of thinking |
| 19:46.27 | nevcairiel | You should produce a alternative with mainstream potential! |
| 19:46.45 | Shirik | nevcairiel, I've considered it, but batrick refuses to let me take on any more projects |
| 19:46.51 | Shirik | fact of the matter is that Linux is usable and that is sufficient |
| 19:47.00 | Shirik | There is no GPOS I like right now |
| 19:47.15 | Shirik | Linux does what I need it to do, and that is enough |
| 19:47.18 | nevcairiel | and there never will be, because your measurements are off :P |
| 19:47.48 | Shirik | I see no reason to couple the filesystem to the security model. The filesystem does need to know things about security, but the security model should not be dependent upon the filesystem |
| 19:47.52 | Dagmar | Shirik: You're blaming LInux for the common configuration most distributions deploy |
| 19:47.53 | Aelo | is there any efficient way of managing function hooks between library versions? or is "one-inside-the-other" the best way? |
| 19:47.55 | Shirik | To be honest, I see that as the lazy way out |
| 19:48.05 | Shirik | true, Dagmar, this is a wider problem |
| 19:48.12 | nevcairiel | Also there probably won't be any new GPOS any time soon |
| 19:48.12 | kd3 | so, wait... DAC is not the answer? |
| 19:48.22 | kd3 | good thing we have other options |
| 19:48.24 | Shirik | Linux is what I have experience with, so I am erring on the side of a smaller scope |
| 19:48.36 | Arrowmaster | ive got issues with the way linux (more like posix) systems handle file systems too, but my issues are with posix acl's and the lack of inheritance |
| 19:48.49 | Dagmar | You _can_ spawn processes with access to practically nothing |
| 19:48.58 | Dagmar | It's just not considered very useful to do so. |
| 19:49.03 | nevcairiel | Shirik: well if the filesystem needs to know about security, the security model has to rely on the filesystem implementing those things properly |
| 19:49.16 | Dagmar | 'cuz idjit users will email you about it 1,000s of times a week if you actually set it up like that |
| 19:49.21 | Shirik | right, but anything not related to the filesystem does not need to rely on the filesystem |
| 19:49.23 | Dagmar | I say we blame RMS |
| 19:49.25 | Shirik | currently, it does |
| 19:49.55 | Dagmar | Um... It also relies on electricity |
| 19:50.14 | Shirik | Are you trolling now, intentionally being dense, or have you just given up hope? |
| 19:50.25 | nevcairiel | we've all given up hope a long time ago, fwiw |
| 19:50.30 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: these are more issues with POSIX than issues with Linux, you are just blaming Linux because it follows POSIX standards |
| 19:50.40 | Shirik | Arrowmaster, I already said that |
| 19:50.47 | Shirik | (14:48:00) (@Shirik) true, Dagmar, this is a wider problem |
| 19:50.48 | Shirik | (14:48:19) (@Shirik) Linux is what I have experience with, so I am erring on the side of a smaller scope |
| 19:51.21 | Dagmar | Shirik: I have been using Unix and Linux longer than you can really have a grasp on. |
| 19:51.31 | Shirik | Yay for you? |
| 19:51.36 | Dagmar | Yes. Yay for me. |
| 19:51.37 | Shirik | Too bad experience has nothing to do with design concepts |
| 19:52.03 | Dagmar | But it *does* have a hell of a lot to do with having had time to understand what the decision-making process was that led to these designs |
| 19:52.11 | Arrowmaster | my uncle works for OpenGroup, maybe in the future my dreams will come true and ill have a chance to fix things |
| 19:52.13 | Dagmar | Just because you didn't personally think of something doesn't mean it's crap. |
| 19:52.25 | Shirik | Ok, mr. genius |
| 19:52.27 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, man, I'm sorry, but unless you're millions of years old and came back in time after your aeons of Linux usage, I'm pretty sure Shirik is capable of grasping however long you've been using it |
| 19:52.48 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaBeta: fun fact, he actually is, and did. |
| 19:52.59 | ZorbaBeta | oh wow okay I stand corrected then |
| 19:53.03 | NightHawkTheSane | ;) |
| 19:53.13 | Shirik | You know what, this conversation is going nowhere and I have no reason to try to point out my beliefs |
| 19:53.27 | Shirik | They won't go anywhere, and you probably won't accept them anyway, so I'll just drop it |
| 19:54.22 | Dagmar | ZorbaBeta: The fact remains, declaring these things to be pointess or wrong is generally quite short-sighted and the sort of conclusions someone who hasn't had _YEARS_ to see the problems is going to come to |
| 19:54.38 | Dagmar | s/pointess/pointless/; |
| 19:54.44 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, I dunno about that. It's possible to say "this is a flaw" without having an immediate solution for making it better. |
| 19:54.48 | Dagmar | Some problems take a LONG time to be recognized as such |
| 19:55.08 | Dagmar | ZorbaBeta: its' also possible to be completely and utterly wrong when you say "this is a flaw" |
| 19:55.11 | ZorbaBeta | I agree that preventing users from chrooting is a flaw. It's something which would be useful. |
| 19:55.20 | nevcairiel | its not necessariyl a flaw if there is a strong design idea behind its, its just a design that isnt compatible with what you want it to do |
| 19:55.31 | Dagmar | Users _can_ chroot. They just can't chroot _securely_ |
| 19:55.39 | Shirik | Ok, I will give you one such example, and leave it at that. Give me a valid reason (aside from "it was easy") to place user passwords on the filesystem directly. |
| 19:55.46 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: thats basically it, really |
| 19:55.49 | ZorbaBeta | If there's security issues around that, I feel the proper solution is to *fix the security issues*, not to shrug and say "well obviously it's unfixable". |
| 19:55.53 | ZorbaBeta | nev, I disagree, personally |
| 19:55.53 | Dagmar | Shirik: Where else are you going to write them |
| 19:56.03 | Shirik | Don't ask a separate question |
| 19:56.07 | Shirik | ZorbaBeta just answered that for you |
| 19:56.15 | batrick | That's right shirik, you can't use new projects as an excuse for not gifting us with your completed ideas. |
| 19:56.15 | Shirik | I didn't say I had a solution, I said I had a problem |
| 19:56.17 | Dagmar | They have to be stored _somewhere_ |
| 19:56.21 | Dagmar | ...and they're on a computer. |
| 19:56.23 | ZorbaBeta | I think that anything which prevents you from using a piece of software in a way which seems reasonable is, pretty much by definition, a flaw. Perhaps not one that should be fixed. But a flaw. |
| 19:56.32 | kd3 | it's not a separate question. you can't just store them in memory because what happens when you reboot? |
| 19:56.35 | Dagmar | "seems reasonable" is not always correct |
| 19:56.41 | Shirik | I didn't say it wasn't on the drive, etc. |
| 19:56.42 | kd3 | the registry isn't exactly impossible to get in to |
| 19:57.03 | Dagmar | Taking this information off the filesystem will in no way make it more secure |
| 19:57.10 | Shirik | You aren't answering my question |
| 19:57.15 | Shirik | You are intentionally dodging it |
| 19:57.25 | ZorbaBeta | personally, from my completely non-expert position, it seems like a better solution would be to provide chroot with its own little user structure as well. so, yeah, okay, you hacked into your chroot, gj, now you're root *on your chroot* and nothing more. |
| 19:57.34 | nevcairiel | The answer simply is: it was easy, and there is not a single reason to make it more complex |
| 19:57.39 | Shirik | Sure there is |
| 19:57.43 | Dagmar | Shirik: Okay. "There is nowhere else to put them" |
| 19:57.45 | ZorbaBeta | which would expand the scope of what a "chroot" is, but, IMHO, in a useful fashion. |
| 19:57.45 | Dagmar | Done. |
| 19:57.51 | Shirik | Not a correct answer |
| 19:57.54 | nevcairiel | You can't increase security by storing it somewhere else |
| 19:57.58 | Arrowmaster | i think Shirik is asking why things have to access the files on the filesystem directly instead of having an API/ABI for the OS to handle it for them in a more secure manner |
| 19:57.58 | Dagmar | Yes, it *is* a correct answer. |
| 19:58.00 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 19:58.05 | nevcairiel | since users still have to be abel to read and write their own password |
| 19:58.10 | Dagmar | You're just being too stubborn to see that. |
| 19:58.12 | Shirik | Sure I could. If it's not on the filesystem, I am guaranteed the location of it. |
| 19:58.24 | Shirik | If it is on the filesystem, there is some interpretation at play |
| 19:58.32 | Shirik | "Where does the filesystem say it is" for example |
| 19:58.44 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: You can't get at the passwords directly. |
| 19:58.55 | ZorbaBeta | that said, I must say I disagree with shirik's solution here and think that putting stuff on the filesystem is actually an A-OK idea ;) |
| 19:58.56 | Arrowmaster | you cant anymore if shadow passwords are enabled |
| 19:59.01 | Dagmar | Shirik: If it's not on the filesystem then where is it? |
| 19:59.09 | Shirik | Stop asking that pointless question |
| 19:59.11 | Arrowmaster | but you still get uid/gid directly from the files |
| 19:59.12 | kd3 | and where is the OS going to put it? |
| 19:59.18 | Shirik | christ |
| 19:59.20 | Shirik | I've already answered this |
| 19:59.27 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: The uid/gid is not meant to be restricted information |
| 19:59.40 | Dagmar | If it is, you can merrily remove user ability to read those files as well |
| 19:59.54 | Shirik | There are a million possibilities. To take the simplest answer off the top of my head, albeit probably a flawed solution, the kernel can make its own small system which only it has access to |
| 20:00.06 | Shirik | That is out of 2 minutes of design |
| 20:00.09 | Dagmar | Oh, so it's on the special *magic* filesystem now |
| 20:00.18 | Shirik | Yes, but it is NOT linked to the rest of the system |
| 20:00.21 | Shirik | That is the important part |
| 20:00.22 | Shirik | DECOUPLING it |
| 20:00.27 | Dagmar | here's a magic hint for you. |
| 20:00.34 | Dagmar | You can do that without anything extra special going on |
| 20:00.53 | Fisker | HOLY SHIT Shirik |
| 20:00.56 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: right but given your example of why only root can use chroot because of suid binaries and changing the uids inside the chroot, if it was an API instead of a direct file access that could be avoided |
| 20:00.57 | Fisker | MW2 isn't just a console port |
| 20:01.07 | Dagmar | Please explain what risks having this in the primary filesystem incurs. |
| 20:01.10 | Fisker | it has mouse control, text chat and IN-GAME VIDEO SETTINGS |
| 20:01.11 | Fisker | OMG |
| 20:01.12 | Dagmar | Not just "I don't like it" |
| 20:01.29 | Shirik | I don't believe you're a programmer, so I'm going to make this simple for you. I trust that you might know a little more about UNIX security than I do. But I also believe I know more about design of systems than you do. Accordingly, I expect that I know more about concepts such as cohesion and coupling, where you do not. |
| 20:01.38 | Shirik | I'm not trying to propose a solution, I'm trying to show why the current solutions are flawed. |
| 20:01.41 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, well, it introduces major security issues when letting users chroot, as a purely hypothetical example |
| 20:01.44 | Shirik | I will leave the solution up to someone else |
| 20:01.54 | Shirik | exactly, and that's where this spawned out of, ZorbaBeta |
| 20:02.04 | nevcairiel | Thats the easy way out, eh. Crying that everythign is bad, but not being productive about it |
| 20:02.06 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: 1. my explanation was ultra simplified. 2. It already is effectively an API. Access to /etc/shadow is restricted for a reason. |
| 20:02.13 | Shirik | nevcairiel, I wasn't saying I wasn't willing to find a solution |
| 20:02.20 | ZorbaBeta | nev, sometimes something is a problem without an obvious solution |
| 20:02.20 | Dagmar | Systems were a hell of a lot easier to bust into before shadow passwords were developed. |
| 20:02.22 | Shirik | I was simply saying I'm not going to find a solution in the 2 minutes I'm being given |
| 20:02.32 | ZorbaBeta | the mere fact that you cannot find a solution does not say that you should not report the problem. |
| 20:02.43 | Shirik | Dagmar: Are you trying to imply that because it's better now, it's fixed? |
| 20:02.48 | Dagmar | "Ah, I can claim your answer is flawed, but you can't claim my answer is flawed because explaining it would take too long" |
| 20:02.52 | Dagmar | Good technique |
| 20:03.03 | Shirik | I don't have an answer |
| 20:03.05 | Shirik | I have a problem |
| 20:03.10 | Dagmar | Shirik: No, I am saying that you have yet to state a case where it's a problem. |
| 20:03.12 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, so chroot is secure for users to use now, is it? |
| 20:03.16 | Shirik | You can't claim my answer is flawed not because it would take too long, but because I don't have an answer |
| 20:03.18 | Dagmar | ZorbaBeta: Nope. |
| 20:03.36 | ZorbaBeta | personally that's the problem I see. chroot is useful. providing it for users would be useful. it is not available for users due to the design of chroot and the security model of linux. therefore, one of those two things is flawed. |
| 20:03.46 | Dagmar | They can use it, it's just not going to prevent any child processes from getting back out |
| 20:04.01 | Arrowmaster | maybe not 'flawed' but 'could be better' |
| 20:04.15 | Dagmar | Here's the thing that's flawed. |
| 20:04.21 | ZorbaBeta | arrow, IMHO the two are logically equivalent, with the only difference being semantics :) |
| 20:04.21 | Dagmar | CHROOT IS NOT A SECURITY TOOL. |
| 20:04.30 | Dagmar | It can be _used_ as one, but it was not designed as a security tool. |
| 20:04.31 | cbreak | jail |
| 20:04.48 | Dagmar | Any efforts to use it as a security tool will, AT BEST, be only partially effective. |
| 20:04.56 | Dagmar | cbreak has the right of it |
| 20:05.03 | Dagmar | There's a bit of a difference between a BSD jail and a chroot. |
| 20:05.05 | mitchnull | man jail (on freebsd) |
| 20:05.16 | alestane | The Linux text I taught from describes a chroot jail as a security tool, but also describes the many cautions and things that must be done carefully to try and secure it. |
| 20:05.22 | nevcairiel | when unix was initially designed, the internet was still a place without Fisker, so people didn't think about security as their first goal .. you still have to remember stuff like that =P |
| 20:05.28 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaBeta: eh, flawed indicates it does not fulfill its indended design, 'could be better' simply indicates ways to improve either the design or implementation |
| 20:05.35 | Dagmar | nevcairiel: You left out "personal hygiene" |
| 20:05.36 | Shirik | nevcairiel: True, but that's not an excuse to ignore it now |
| 20:06.03 | Arrowmaster | most of the internet still fall under that 'no thought about security' category |
| 20:06.23 | Dagmar | Being that the point of the internet is to share resources, yes |
| 20:06.27 | Shirik | Regardless of whether or not chroot is a security tool (I'm not going there), it is used as one now, and thus such a feature /as a security tool/ is important to administrators |
| 20:06.33 | Arrowmaster | anybody with a link that doesnt filter BGP packets can effectively break the entire internet |
| 20:06.34 | Dagmar | ...but it's not the internet's fault. |
| 20:06.35 | Shirik | s/resources/porn/ |
| 20:06.45 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Not anymore |
| 20:07.03 | Arrowmaster | it happened less than a year ago |
| 20:07.06 | Dagmar | That got sorted ages ago and you can thank the cDc for forcing the issue |
| 20:07.16 | Shirik | center for disease control? |
| 20:07.16 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: thats kind of poor logic, though, to fault a tool for being insufficient for use in a way it wasn't designed for.. |
| 20:07.17 | nevcairiel | the current systems are all "too old", linux grew over years, if you want something modern, you would need something new, from scratch |
| 20:07.19 | Dagmar | What happened |
| 20:07.34 | Shirik | NightHawkTheSane: I'm saying if the tool can't be fixed, we need a new tool |
| 20:07.40 | Dagmar | If your'e talking about the Google BGP fail in the transition to IPv6, that was just a screw up |
| 20:07.41 | Shirik | Because obviously the use case is there |
| 20:07.48 | Dagmar | It wasn't just "anyone with a connection that doesn't filter BGP" |
| 20:07.54 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: which is fine, but thats not a -flaw- |
| 20:07.59 | Shirik | I didn';t say it was |
| 20:08.07 | Twisol | Oh, man. |
| 20:08.09 | Shirik | The kernel is flawed. The tool does what it's supposed to do |
| 20:08.10 | Twisol | I broke WoW. :( |
| 20:08.13 | Twisol | Infinite loop FTW |
| 20:08.14 | Dagmar | Shirik: Cult of the Dead Cow |
| 20:08.20 | NightHawkTheSane | nevermind. |
| 20:08.24 | Arrowmaster | some idiots misconfigured a router and caused part of the internet to slow down, wasnt a total breakdown just hickups |
| 20:08.28 | NightHawkTheSane | im going to go back to work |
| 20:08.39 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: Comcast does that every day |
| 20:08.49 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: So how does that relate to having a connection that doesn't filter BGP? |
| 20:09.03 | mitchnull | shirik: what exactly is your problem (sorry, I came too late :) |
| 20:09.07 | Arrowmaster | because they did it by broadcasting incorrect BGP packets |
| 20:09.15 | Shirik | I have a lot of problems with the Linux kernel |
| 20:09.17 | Dagmar | Anyone with a BGP router can do that |
| 20:09.21 | Shirik | I'm not going to try to list them all |
| 20:09.22 | Arrowmaster | exactly |
| 20:09.31 | Shirik | I have long since finished my solution |
| 20:09.31 | mitchnull | shirik: are you forced on linux? |
| 20:09.32 | Dagmar | It doesn't mean other servers will _listen_ unless there was a pre-existing relationship |
| 20:09.39 | Dagmar | This is the change the cDc people incurred. |
| 20:09.49 | Shirik | Linux is still the best platform for my needs |
| 20:09.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (n=EAndre@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 20:09.59 | Shirik | Just because I have problems with something doesn't mean I won't use it |
| 20:09.59 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 20:10.01 | Dagmar | This was the whole "hackers going before congress to talk about how the entire internet is in jeapordy" thing actually. |
| 20:10.10 | Shirik | but also just beacuse I'm using something doesn't mean I have to like everything about it |
| 20:10.14 | Dagmar | The cDc arguing that BGP was entirely too trusting. |
| 20:10.16 | Arrowmaster | it was a pre existing router, not some new router |
| 20:10.23 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Exactly. |
| 20:10.34 | Dagmar | I, knowing how BGP works, could NOT sit here at home and fuck up the internet. |
| 20:10.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:10.48 | mitchnull | shirik: alright, I'm not trying to be an evangelist or somesuch, just wanted to point out that freebsd is generally a lot better put together system. not as good for desktop though, I give you that |
| 20:10.51 | Dagmar | It _requires_ a level of pre-existing access and control to do that |
| 20:10.59 | Shirik | it's a server |
| 20:10.59 | mitchnull | but that's mainly the fault of nvidia/ati |
| 20:11.04 | Shirik | but I think I'm required to use linux |
| 20:11.08 | Arrowmaster | unless maybe you got into some router that still used the default password |
| 20:11.16 | nevcairiel | Shirik: go Gentoo/FreeBSD :D |
| 20:11.17 | ZorbaBeta | I do wish there was an OS that I could find perfectly suited for me, but it's all second-best options right now :( |
| 20:11.30 | ZorbaBeta | windows+cygwin is the closest I've come. |
| 20:11.31 | Shirik | I think Linode requires you to use one of their distributions |
| 20:11.45 | mitchnull | try to find a bsd host provider? :) |
| 20:11.48 | durcyn | linode requires you to use one of their -kernels-. |
| 20:11.50 | nevcairiel | I should install Gentoo/FreeBSD in a VM some day |
| 20:11.55 | nevcairiel | i've always wanted to try it |
| 20:11.55 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Then it wouldn't take long for people to blacklist your router and/or your ASN, solving the problem |
| 20:12.11 | Shirik | it still has portage? |
| 20:12.15 | nevcairiel | yea |
| 20:12.18 | Shirik | interesting |
| 20:12.23 | durcyn | you could replace the userspace with whatever you wanted tbh |
| 20:12.24 | Dagmar | It would require someone with a clue and a bit of manual intervention, but even then you can't just advertise yourself as say, the best route to everywhere. Other BGP peers will up and ignore you |
| 20:12.33 | mitchnull | shirik: http://www.rootbsd.net/ |
| 20:12.39 | Shirik | durcyn: Doesn't get me much closer to using bsd, of course :) |
| 20:13.13 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: http://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/ |
| 20:13.23 | nevcairiel | imho they just don't trust you to build a proper kernel yourself |
| 20:13.29 | durcyn | Shirik: yeah well, see mitchnull's link |
| 20:13.42 | nevcairiel | if you extracted their config, i bet you could compile a new one |
| 20:13.47 | Shirik | I don't know, I've been happy with linode |
| 20:13.50 | Shirik | I don't really want to switch |
| 20:13.55 | mitchnull | arrow: the worst part of linux is the gnu userland :P |
| 20:14.12 | Arrowmaster | bsd userland isnt much better |
| 20:14.18 | Shirik | In the 2.5 years I've been using them I've had 30 minutes of unexpected downtime (which was actually like 5 minutes + reboot + fixing my drive) |
| 20:14.27 | mitchnull | it's better documented and usually more consistent |
| 20:14.38 | nevcairiel | the userland suffers from the same problems, its just old |
| 20:14.57 | Arrowmaster | worst part of freebsd/openbsd ive heard is that they dont consider the stuff in portage to be part of the OS and dont make any effort at security patches and what not for it |
| 20:15.11 | mitchnull | arrow: that's not tru |
| 20:15.29 | mitchnull | they just make a _lot more effort_ to keep the base system top-notch security wise |
| 20:15.51 | mitchnull | the ports tree is usually pretty up-to-date (less used stuff might get a bit lagged behind though) |
| 20:16.50 | mitchnull | but if something's in the base system, it's orders of magnitudes better integrated than stuff in linuxland |
| 20:17.11 | Arrowmaster | right but up to par compared to debian for security updates from what ive heard |
| 20:17.48 | Arrowmaster | s/but up/but its not up/ |
| 20:18.12 | mitchnull | arrow: I'd question that or at least [citation needed] |
| 20:18.58 | mitchnull | but in any case, as I've said above, I don't want to make anyone switch from linux to freebsd just for the sake of it. I just got fed up with kubuntu recently :P |
| 20:19.02 | Dagmar | The Debian guys would probably be less likely to be prescribed anti-psychotics, were they to undergo psychiatric evaluation for their paranoia |
| 20:19.09 | Dagmar | s/less/slightly less/; |
| 20:20.20 | mitchnull | & |
| 20:20.32 | zenzelezz | killall mitchnull |
| 20:20.46 | durcyn | Arrowmaster: openbsd ports has nontrivial quantities of patches last i checked |
| 20:21.12 | Dagmar | sets your printer on fire. |
| 20:25.32 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 20:25.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 20:27.16 | mitchnull | zenzelezz: permission denied |
| 20:27.50 | zenzelezz | sudo killall mitchnull |
| 20:28.09 | mitchnull | sudo: not in sudoers, this incident WILL BE reported |
| 20:28.28 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo (n=gdbzet26@p4FEFD2BB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:29.25 | Shirik | no it won't |
| 20:29.30 | Shirik | they just say that :P |
| 20:29.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 20:29.47 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 20:29.56 | nevcairiel | that reminds me of that comment in globalstrings |
| 20:30.04 | zenzelezz | huggles Lopeppeppy tightly |
| 20:30.11 | Shirik | tackles Lopeppeppy |
| 20:30.32 | zenzelezz | you'll have to go through me first |
| 20:30.39 | Shirik | >< |
| 20:31.01 | Lopeppeppy | re-hello. |
| 20:31.07 | Lopeppeppy | Thank you for the hugging tacklesomes. |
| 20:31.20 | NightHawkTheSane | evening peppy. |
| 20:31.27 | NightHawkTheSane | how goes it? |
| 20:35.13 | Lopeppeppy | I am not happy with the goes-it, NHTS. Soon it will be time to leave work though, and life will improve. |
| 20:35.37 | NightHawkTheSane | leaving work is always a good thing |
| 20:36.24 | mitchnull | shirik: no, that's real :) root gets a mail. and you'll be busted! |
| 20:37.40 | Lunessa | I'm starting to feel like "The Only Sane Man" - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=20677236344&sid=1
 |
| 20:38.22 | mitchnull | nah, Fisker is "The Only Sane Man" |
| 20:38.28 | NightHawkTheSane | .... |
| 20:38.32 | NightHawkTheSane | excuse me? |
| 20:38.40 | NightHawkTheSane | i think i am, by defnition, sane. :P |
| 20:38.42 | mitchnull | it's real. been watching him for a while |
| 20:38.48 | Lopeppeppy | I'm a very sane man. |
| 20:39.11 | Shirik | o.o |
| 20:39.16 | Shirik | Lopeppeppy is a man? |
| 20:39.20 | Shirik | you lied to me! T_T |
| 20:39.29 | NightHawkTheSane | i dont think so, but i bet if she was, she'd be a sane one. |
| 20:39.53 | Lopeppeppy | That was intended to be delicious irony, Shirik, of some sort. I'm neither of those descriptors. |
| 20:40.39 | Shirik | oh, because you are insane, you were lying |
| 20:41.09 | Lopeppeppy | Exactly. |
| 20:42.11 | Lunessa | Shirik it's a story-telling archetype - tvtropes has an article on it. Basically, you're the person in the story who's the only one pointing out how fucking crazy something is. |
| 20:42.47 | Shirik | sounds like me |
| 20:42.50 | Shirik | I am an archetype? |
| 20:43.41 | zenzelezz | you're a user-defined type |
| 20:43.44 | Lopeppeppy | I don't think so. I'd have to look you up. |
| 20:43.45 | NightHawkTheSane | i'd hope not. archetypes are pretty shallow |
| 20:44.19 | mitchnull | hm. linode offers a bit more for the same buck than rootbsd (in terms of memory/disk) |
| 20:44.36 | Shirik | linode is still cramming my wallet a little |
| 20:44.45 | mitchnull | but you get to compile you own kernel if you wish on rootbsd |
| 20:44.47 | Shirik | They throw all this unnecessary disk space at you |
| 20:44.55 | Shirik | and restrict you on RAM |
| 20:45.14 | Shirik | I really need like 2GB of RAM but I'm probably going to have to go dedicated to do that |
| 20:45.19 | Lunessa | Shirik: You're the "Overworked genius student" - of the sort portrayed in the film "Real Genius". I keep expecting to hear you say "Fantastic! Now all we have to do is keep it from exploding!" |
| 20:45.37 | Shirik | haven't seen it |
| 20:45.54 | Lunessa | ~failrick |
| 20:45.55 | purl | methinks failrick is Shirik's been Rick Rolled! |
| 20:45.59 | Dagmar | Lunessa: That's harder to do than you think |
| 20:46.06 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: shirik doesn't keep things from exploding, just designs stuff and lets other people solve that problem ;) |
| 20:46.17 | Dagmar | Science *likes* making things explode. |
| 20:46.22 | Dagmar | No one's to blame really. |
| 20:46.27 | Lunessa | I thought that was Thunder-Child |
| 20:46.29 | End | mitchnull: you -can- build your own kernel on linode, and boot it with pv-grub |
| 20:46.47 | Dagmar | This is why people say "Stand back! I'm going to use SCIENCE!" |
| 20:46.55 | Shirik | I saw some proof recently that states that the universe is still exploding |
| 20:47.03 | Dagmar | Science. |
| 20:47.26 | Shirik | basically he says that the big bang must have occurred, is occurring, and will occur again |
| 20:47.57 | Lopeppeppy | I hope so. Rawr. |
| 20:47.58 | zenzelezz | so a coworker of mine has taken to sprinkling a tiny bit of cinnamon on his coffee... smells delicious >.< |
| 20:48.10 | Lopeppeppy | Cinnamon is good for the metabolism |
| 20:48.22 | Shirik | coffee, not so much |
| 20:48.22 | NightHawkTheSane | i like a touch of cinnamon on my chai |
| 20:48.27 | End | (although, my linode is still running on UML >_> <_< one of these days I'll get around to opening a ticket to move it to xen) |
| 20:48.32 | NightHawkTheSane | sounds odd on coffee, but i bet it'd be good |
| 20:48.34 | Shirik | UML? |
| 20:48.38 | Shirik | Unified modeling language |
| 20:48.38 | End | usermode linux |
| 20:48.41 | Shirik | your linode is only designed |
| 20:48.43 | Shirik | not implemented |
| 20:49.02 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: I like the cut of your jib, missy. |
| 20:49.29 | End | basically weak ass virtualization, if you can even call it virtualization :P |
| 20:49.30 | zenzelezz | simply likes Lopeppeppy |
| 20:49.33 | Lopeppeppy | Jib, I has one? |
| 20:49.46 | Shirik | End: I call it emulation |
| 20:49.53 | End | fair enough |
| 20:50.02 | Shirik | :) |
| 20:50.49 | zenzelezz | if I ever become a sysadmin for something large, I'll fork the distro of choice and name is "Loose", so I can say the servers are running loose |
| 20:51.14 | Lopeppeppy | No, amok is better. |
| 20:51.24 | Lopeppeppy | dances and sings "amok amok amok amok!" |
| 20:51.31 | End | zenzelezz is silly |
| 20:51.34 | Shirik | pokes Lopeppeppy |
| 20:51.37 | NightHawkTheSane | amok is better |
| 20:51.41 | zenzelezz | Lopeppeppy: I could fork Apache and name it amok, so they could run loose and amok |
| 20:51.45 | NightHawkTheSane | there's potential for great star trek references |
| 20:52.26 | zenzelezz | hm... or Slowly |
| 20:53.00 | Lunessa | One guy at a place I worked named all his servers for WWII german generals and invaded nations. So he would remote from Rommel to Sudan... |
| 20:53.38 | Shirik | our servers are just named after stars :( |
| 20:53.45 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 20:53.46 | zenzelezz | was Sudan involved in WW2? I thought they just stuck to northern Africa |
| 20:53.48 | Lopeppeppy | Ours around here tend to be named after famous Civil War battle sites. |
| 20:54.12 | durcyn | i named mine after star wars planets </geek> |
| 20:54.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (n=EAndre@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 20:54.47 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 20:54.51 | zenzelezz | my computer naming scheme is inconsistent... my main computer is "zenzelezz", my IRC/web/whatever computer is "Stalin", and my Linode is "Nina" (after the prettiest girl I remember from school) |
| 20:54.51 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: thats awesome |
| 20:55.20 | Lunessa | zenzelezz: it was a long time ago, so I may have some of the names wrong, but it was pretty funny at the time. |
| 20:55.29 | NightHawkTheSane | mine is a mish-mash of names from lain, NGE, and macross. >< |
| 20:55.36 | zenzelezz | Lunessa: yeah, sounded like it |
| 20:56.15 | Lunessa | I name my boxes on my next work after Sumerian deities. My Windows 7 box is Enki. |
| 20:56.17 | Lopeppeppy | Half the people around here can't pronounce the names... Oswegatchie! |
| 20:57.13 | Dewin | Lunessa: Enki is a Sumerian deity? Hmm. |
| 20:57.31 | Dewin | Have you ever seen the Kirin anime? |
| 20:57.47 | Lunessa | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enki |
| 20:58.28 | Dewin | The GM of my old guild (the one that I was in even before I played WoW, and then they moved to WoW) goes by the name Enki. |
| 20:58.30 | durcyn | not recognizing the name Enki means you failed to read Snow Crash. Fie upon thee. |
| 20:58.34 | durcyn | FIE. |
| 20:58.36 | cbreak | Snow Crash! |
| 20:58.55 | cbreak | best combination of hacker, samurai and pizza ever |
| 20:59.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Ancu (n=c@ppp42.pm3-12.man-ch.nh.localnet.com) |
| 20:59.32 | Dewin | durcyn: No. I recognize Enki from another source |
| 20:59.34 | Lunessa | Dewin: My Animae has largely been restricted to Lain, BubbleGum Crash/Crisis, AD Police, Project A-Ko, Full Metal Alchemist, and Vampire Pincess Miyu. And Legend of the Overfiend which scarred me for life. |
| 20:59.37 | NightHawkTheSane | i should reread that.. after i finish the small mountain of unread books i have >< |
| 20:59.56 | Lunessa | Snow Crash = Win |
| 21:00.00 | Dewin | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Kingdoms |
| 21:00.11 | NightHawkTheSane | i still need to read neuromancerr |
| 21:00.11 | zenzelezz | think the only anime I've watched a complete series of was Chobits |
| 21:00.31 | Dewin | Each kingdom has a kirin guardian. En has Enki. Ryu has Ryurin. etc. |
| 21:00.41 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 21:00.41 | cbreak | I think The Cryptonomicon was his best book, but Snow Crash was very unique |
| 21:00.42 | zenzelezz | enjoy the Studio Ghibli (I think it was) movies |
| 21:00.52 | Dewin | which are, as a result, my GM's names in FFXI and WoW |
| 21:00.55 | Ancu | studio ghibli rox |
| 21:01.25 | Ancu | hey, anyone know what that wow song is that is the same tune as soldier boy? |
| 21:01.50 | *** join/#wowuidev jpmorgan (n=jpmorgan@67.183.221.120) |
| 21:02.22 | Ancu | anyone? |
| 21:02.30 | smcn | healer |
| 21:02.46 | smcn | by decision |
| 21:02.51 | smcn | youtube it |
| 21:03.50 | Ancu | realy? thats an odd name for it. That is the one DROOOD right? |
| 21:06.20 | Ancu | You sure there isnt another one? that one dosent seem right |
| 21:07.18 | smcn | it's the only one i know, i didn't think there would be more than one parody of soldier about wow :P |
| 21:08.03 | Ancu | This one starts out with the picture of a bomkin. You know, instead of WHOOO, the song goes DROOOD |
| 21:09.21 | smcn | then yeah i guess that's not it, honestly the only reason i know about that song is they played it at the end of an episode of the instance awhile back |
| 21:09.39 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (n=sylvanaa@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 21:13.10 | Lunessa | Dewin: I'll see if I can rent it since it's on DVD |
| 21:14.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Spamurai (n=gecklesj@p57A492CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:14.49 | Shirik | how do you use 250GB a month on a home connection? |
| 21:14.49 | Spamurai | anyone around with knowledge of chat frames? |
| 21:14.55 | Shirik | That's like kd3 on steroids |
| 21:15.04 | Shirik | lua> 250/30 |
| 21:15.05 | lua_bot | Shirik: 8.3333333333333 |
| 21:15.20 | Shirik | That's like 2 DVDs a day |
| 21:16.18 | *** join/#wowuidev kamdis (i=405f8902@gateway/web/freenode/x-64cb16af7491726e) |
| 21:16.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 21:16.44 | Dagmar | That's a LOT of fapping |
| 21:17.57 | Trela | I did 120gb last month. |
| 21:18.20 | Trela | 276gb in November of last year when the connection was shared. |
| 21:18.21 | *** part/#wowuidev Trela (n=Alexia@pa-67-234-204-174.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 21:18.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Trela (n=Alexia@pa-67-234-204-174.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 21:18.31 | Trela | fails at keys. |
| 21:20.13 | Shirik | seriouisly |
| 21:20.13 | Shirik | how |
| 21:20.20 | Shirik | chillax |
| 21:20.26 | Lopeppeppy | Does Dragon Age fit this description? " I love roleplaying games with a story -- Oblivion, Fallout 3, Neverwinter Nights and so on. Not as interested in straight shoo...t 'em ups. PC only, and no, I don't want to play online games." ? |
| 21:20.28 | Shirik | the internet is for porn and all, but there's a limit |
| 21:20.39 | durcyn | Lopeppeppy: Yep. |
| 21:20.59 | Shirik | Lopeppeppy: Get Star Ocean: The Last Hope |
| 21:21.06 | Shirik | (if that's you) |
| 21:21.12 | Lopeppeppy | Not me. |
| 21:21.19 | Shirik | :( |
| 21:21.35 | durcyn | hell, any bioware rpg fits that description. |
| 21:21.39 | NightHawkTheSane | does star ocean even have a pc version? |
| 21:21.42 | Lopeppeppy | My thumb is starting to lock up again, looks like the surgeries for the Peppies. |
| 21:22.14 | Shirik | huggles Lopeppeppy |
| 21:22.16 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 21:22.17 | Shirik | NightHawkTheSane: Doubtful |
| 21:22.30 | foxlit | "whisper me ure dps/healing" |
| 21:22.39 | foxlit | So tempting to do "/w foo 2 healing!" |
| 21:22.54 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: http://images.gammatester.com/pics/bf9b4cee0af36020219dcdf8c7df866f.png http://images.gammatester.com/pics/80e09ae4accf6ef63cdcc12eef3e702c.png |
| 21:23.02 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: so that also doesn't really fit the question. ;) |
| 21:23.22 | Shirik | Arrowmaster, wtf |
| 21:23.24 | Shirik | seriously |
| 21:23.59 | NightHawkTheSane | Arrowmaster: jesus christ man. |
| 21:24.17 | Lopeppeppy | Pro torrenter ahoy. |
| 21:24.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Balreign_ (n=Balreign@ANantes-156-1-68-171.w90-12.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:24.43 | Adys | I got much higher uploads |
| 21:24.53 | Adys | but little downloads nowadays |
| 21:25.08 | Arrowmaster | http://images.gammatester.com/pics/085fd8a5c2b699141c1e0f462f612f71.png check that one for the day that really stands out |
| 21:25.13 | Adys | ~arrowmaster-- |
| 21:25.18 | Adys | thats for using firefox |
| 21:25.55 | Thunder_Child | Lopeppeppy, yes, more story than anything else atm :( |
| 21:25.58 | Arrowmaster | my upload is maxed 24/7 just trying to keep from killing my ratio on the private bittorrent tracker |
| 21:26.23 | Arrowmaster | and ive gone over the 500gb uploaded point on that tracker |
| 21:26.43 | Arrowmaster | actually had a 3.0 ratio years ago |
| 21:27.14 | Adys | how long you been on that tracker? |
| 21:27.53 | Arrowmaster | Sun, 29 Oct 2006 05:33:22 +0000 3y 1w 4d |
| 21:28.03 | Adys | 500 gb in 3 years..? |
| 21:28.04 | zenzelezz | Arrowmaster: that's a lot of porn |
| 21:28.10 | sylvanaar | seriously |
| 21:28.26 | Arrowmaster | it is, some of that is on lost harddrives now =( |
| 21:28.39 | sylvanaar | you could start a vod site |
| 21:29.08 | Arrowmaster | the recent 1080p porn is killing my ratio |
| 21:29.10 | Adys | Arrowmaster: UL: 785.27 GB Ratio: 4.749 |
| 21:29.13 | nevcairiel | i'm on roughly 1 TB upload on my tracker since 2007-05-02 |
| 21:29.15 | Adys | thats barely a year old |
| 21:29.21 | Adys | and not that active either |
| 21:29.36 | Adys | how can you do 500gb in three active years? |
| 21:29.49 | Arrowmaster | i actually stoped using bt altogether for over a year |
| 21:29.58 | Adys | okay |
| 21:30.01 | Adys | how can you do 500gb in two active years? |
| 21:30.02 | nevcairiel | you only downloaded about 200gb in a year? |
| 21:30.04 | Arrowmaster | i didnt have the drive space at the time anyway to dl anything |
| 21:30.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Subdino (n=vincent@ALille-154-1-64-1.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:30.08 | sylvanaar | i still use usenet |
| 21:30.24 | Adys | ~oldwhale sylvanaar |
| 21:30.29 | Arrowmaster | i used usenet until my isp shutdown their server |
| 21:30.32 | sylvanaar | its faster most of the time - assuming the files are there |
| 21:30.56 | sylvanaar | i use a private host - its not free though |
| 21:31.02 | Arrowmaster | yeah, always maxed my line because it was my isps server |
| 21:31.09 | mikma_ | http://www.geekologie.com/2009/11/what_space_invaders_actually_l.php |
| 21:31.18 | Adys | meh i dunno how you guys download so much |
| 21:31.28 | Adys | Im having troubles finding interesting stuff to watch |
| 21:31.39 | sylvanaar | me too |
| 21:31.47 | durcyn | they just mirror all of usenet to /dev/null for grins, obviously |
| 21:32.00 | Arrowmaster | did you not catch that i basically just admitted that account was on a private, porn only, tracker |
| 21:32.16 | sylvanaar | we missed the 'porn only' part |
| 21:32.48 | Arrowmaster | <zenzelezz> Arrowmaster: that's a lot of porn <Arrowmaster> it is |
| 21:33.02 | mikma_ | i wants one... http://www.geekologie.com/2009/11/the_colorblind_clock_is_a_litt.php |
| 21:33.07 | Adys | people still download porn? |
| 21:33.28 | AbsolutRayne | Farming low level materials reminds me only of how much the old zones bore me these days :/ |
| 21:33.41 | Arrowmaster | only because i have strange tastes |
| 21:34.35 | sylvanaar | we are approaching tmi |
| 21:34.55 | NightHawkTheSane | ^^ |
| 21:35.21 | Arrowmaster | not that strange, just strange compared to easy to get streamed stuff which are mostly generic crap |
| 21:35.54 | krka | Adys: i presume you only upload it then? |
| 21:35.59 | krka | and/or produce? |
| 21:36.04 | Adys | still approaching, or are we yet trying to recover from the crash? |
| 21:36.22 | zenzelezz | this isn't even close to bad for this channel |
| 21:36.38 | Lunessa | Arrowmaster: So you're a Dance of the Fireflies kind of guy instead of say Macross? |
| 21:37.04 | Adys | krka: no but I dont actually download shit |
| 21:37.10 | foxlit | mikma_: I'm not colorblind, and even then it's a pain to read. |
| 21:37.24 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: in the context of this discussion, that comment is extremely disturbing |
| 21:37.44 | foxlit | mostly because they had to make all the "data" circles tiny compares to the noise, and you tend to filter based on size. |
| 21:37.49 | Lunessa | My work here is done. |
| 21:38.27 | alestane | Dance of the Firelfies or Grave of the Fireflies? |
| 21:38.35 | Arrowmaster | yeah i dont get it |
| 21:39.02 | Arrowmaster | cant remember if ive seen either of those two |
| 21:39.45 | durcyn | Grave of the Fireflies is godamn depressing. |
| 21:40.13 | alestane | Dance of the Fireflies is apparently a dramatic novel written about street life in India. Grave of the Fireflies is an early Miyazaki film about life during WWII. |
| 21:40.32 | alestane | My grandmother summed it up as "My God, isn't that little girl ever going to stop crying?" |
| 21:40.50 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: answer: no. |
| 21:40.58 | alestane | NightHawkTheSane: Answer: Yes. |
| 21:41.10 | alestane | But only because she's DEAD., |
| 21:41.23 | Shirik | Anyone have a recommendation for a tool that I can run on my computer to check if my services are still running? |
| 21:41.25 | NightHawkTheSane | well, yes :P |
| 21:41.33 | Shirik | That means (1) responding and (2) in the case of HTTP, not giving a 500 code |
| 21:41.41 | *** join/#wowuidev BWMerlin (n=chatzill@58.174.148.250) |
| 21:41.51 | durcyn | Shirik: i'd do nagios with webinject |
| 21:41.54 | mitchnull | shirik: nagios? |
| 21:42.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Zeksie (n=zeksie@cpc1-nott9-0-0-cust756.nott.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:42.42 | Shirik | linux only? |
| 21:42.52 | durcyn | or, alternatively, djb's insane daemontools |
| 21:42.59 | durcyn | nagios runs on any posix platform |
| 21:43.16 | Shirik | ok so not Win Server 2k8R2 |
| 21:43.22 | Shirik | well |
| 21:43.31 | Shirik | tbh, I don't really want to put something on the server |
| 21:43.36 | Shirik | it shouldn't be neccessary |
| 21:44.13 | Shirik | I don't need to know all these details, I can always log in. I just want to see if something goes down. Something running in the background that pops up on my computer when it realizes something isn't right |
| 21:45.11 | Antiarc | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=20860799499&sid=1 is the best thread ever |
| 21:45.24 | Antiarc | "halp, I want the game to play for me because playing a DK is too hard" |
| 21:46.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Antiarc: wow that post is win |
| 21:46.32 | Fisker | Antiarc my friend |
| 21:46.38 | Fisker | mumble is insanely overpriced |
| 21:46.42 | mitchnull | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:46.47 | Fisker | cause i found a vent server for only .30 cents! |
| 21:47.01 | Fisker | that's like 1/30 of a mumble server |
| 21:47.01 | Antiarc | Yay for you! |
| 21:47.02 | Fisker | :D |
| 21:47.17 | Antiarc | It's likely running unlicensed :V |
| 21:47.28 | Fisker | or .30 cents |
| 21:47.30 | Fisker | GET IT? |
| 21:47.33 | Antiarc | no |
| 21:47.45 | Fisker | it's obviously .30 dollars |
| 21:48.11 | Antiarc | hurr |
| 21:48.16 | Fisker | http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/2006/12/verizon-doesnt-know-dollars-from-cents.html |
| 21:48.22 | Arrowmaster | hes making a joke about verizons .002 cents data rate |
| 21:48.50 | Dagmar | I don't know that it's a "joke" exactly. |
| 21:49.07 | Dagmar | Some idiot rep told him the wrong information about costs, and he got screwed because of it. |
| 21:49.23 | Dagmar | When he called back to hear even one person tell him the correct answer, they failed again. |
| 21:49.24 | NightHawkTheSane | i got a laugh out of it, so i'd call it a joke. :P |
| 21:49.33 | Dagmar | Personally, I think he shoudl give them the rate he was quoted multiple times |
| 21:49.52 | Dagmar | ...and tell them to go bugger off for anything over that. It would probably hold up in court. |
| 21:50.31 | Shirik | Fisker my friend |
| 21:50.33 | Shirik | you are overpriced |
| 21:54.20 | Fisker | no u Shirik |
| 21:54.39 | Shirik | no u |
| 21:57.15 | Cide- | no m |
| 21:57.16 | Cide- | e |
| 21:57.17 | Cide- | fuck |
| 21:57.18 | Cide- | no me |
| 21:57.32 | Shirik | Cide- |
| 21:57.33 | Shirik | hi |
| 21:57.41 | Cide- | hi my love |
| 22:03.29 | AbsolutRayne | You guys watching the news? |
| 22:03.41 | Dagmar | Something just happened? |
| 22:03.52 | AbsolutRayne | Shooting at Fort Hood in Texas |
| 22:04.19 | AbsolutRayne | 12 Dead, 31 Wounded |
| 22:04.54 | Dagmar | It'd be on CNN here but I have a hippie co-worker who refuses to watch "Hate TV" |
| 22:04.57 | durcyn | holy what the fuck |
| 22:05.07 | durcyn | who's doing the shooting? |
| 22:05.23 | AbsolutRayne | durcyn: Apparently, 3 Soldiers |
| 22:05.34 | Cide- | so, what's the verdict |
| 22:05.37 | Cide- | how good is borderlands? |
| 22:06.04 | durcyn | Cide-: game's good, pc multiplayer is total garbage |
| 22:06.09 | ZorbaBeta | cide, if you want a first-person diablo shooter, it's great |
| 22:06.17 | Cide- | why, durcyn? |
| 22:06.36 | Shirik | AbsolutRayne, wtf? |
| 22:06.37 | durcyn | they used gamespy for some reason instead of steam, the ports it uses are undocumented |
| 22:06.46 | Spamurai | anyone have a moment to help me out with why a piece of code may not be working? it's in relation to the ChatFrameEditBox |
| 22:06.46 | Dagmar | Cide-: Thankfully, I've already committed my next several weeks to Dragon Age: Origins |
| 22:06.47 | AbsolutRayne | Shirik: Seriously |
| 22:06.50 | ZorbaBeta | once you open enough ports it seems to work just fine |
| 22:07.00 | Cide- | Dagmar: well, I'm interested in borderlands as opposed to DAO |
| 22:07.06 | Cide- | but DAO looks interesting as well |
| 22:07.11 | ZorbaBeta | the built-in voice chat is awful, but it can be turned off and you can use teamspeak or something |
| 22:07.13 | durcyn | Cide-: most of the people i've talked to are just giving up and using Hamachi |
| 22:07.19 | Cide- | works for me. |
| 22:07.21 | ZorbaBeta | the pc interface is also basically garbage but it's still a fun game to play |
| 22:07.33 | Dagmar | Cide-: There's a great extent to which the thing is what Oblivion wanted to be |
| 22:07.41 | Dagmar | Except it doesn't beat my video card to death |
| 22:07.47 | Dagmar | w00t! \o/ |
| 22:08.14 | durcyn | eh, the interface ain't that bad |
| 22:08.19 | durcyn | and the story's enjoyable |
| 22:08.41 | Dagmar | The thing runs significantly better (and better looking) on my 8800GTS than Oblivion does |
| 22:08.59 | durcyn | it's the gameplay itself that really shines though, being able to shoot someone in the face repeatedly with a sniper rifle that also causes them to explode... well, it doesn't get much better than that. |
| 22:09.07 | Dagmar | There's definitely a difference in the combat between the console and the PC version |
| 22:09.16 | Dagmar | The PC version's combat is a little on the hardcore side |
| 22:09.17 | ZorbaBeta | I wouldn't say that the gameplay is very *good*, but it is dang fun |
| 22:09.29 | ZorbaBeta | I think I'd get bored stiff playing it singleplayer |
| 22:09.48 | amro | it's too easy |
| 22:09.53 | Shirik | btw, AbsolutRayne, http://edition.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream1 |
| 22:09.55 | durcyn | i'm on my second playthrough singleplayer, level 45 or so, and it's still fun making things die in new and interesting ways |
| 22:10.16 | kamdis | durcyn: gameranger.com ftw |
| 22:10.18 | amro | I found a sniper rifle that kills almost anything with a single non-crit hit |
| 22:10.23 | ZorbaBeta | it definitely has not been overly easy in multiplayer for us, creatures have a metric ton of HP and hit like trucks |
| 22:10.37 | AbsolutRayne | Shirik: I have that up atm |
| 22:10.39 | amro | ZorbaBeta: don't get hit :) |
| 22:10.41 | ZorbaBeta | I can certainly see it being simpler in singleplayer where you can burst things down easily |
| 22:10.56 | durcyn | um |
| 22:11.04 | durcyn | singleplayer scales pretty well actually |
| 22:11.22 | durcyn | and don't even ask me about badmutha alpha shock skags, ain't no such thing as easy burst there =P |
| 22:11.44 | ZorbaBeta | durcyn, sure, but you can still burst things down a whole lot faster. anything that isn't a badass will die in a few hits at that point |
| 22:12.00 | ZorbaBeta | if not one, if you're using a sniper rifle |
| 22:12.04 | amro | one hit unless you're using an smg/machinegun |
| 22:12.09 | durcyn | and four people shooting something makes it die pretty well too, shrug |
| 22:12.10 | ZorbaBeta | yeah |
| 22:12.22 | ZorbaBeta | whereas in 4-person mode, even getting a headshot with a sniper is often not a one-shot kill |
| 22:12.25 | amro | multi has huge tactical advantages |
| 22:12.29 | amro | like vs spiderants |
| 22:12.48 | durcyn | i don't even see why you'd complain when you have a soldier's ammo regen aura |
| 22:12.58 | ZorbaBeta | amro, yeah, you've got the tactical advantage, but if shit goes bad you can end up in a much worse situation. |
| 22:13.14 | AbsolutRayne | The guy just asked them if he reloaded? |
| 22:13.15 | AbsolutRayne | What? |
| 22:16.54 | WobWork | http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=59306991210&ref=nf&v=wall |
| 22:16.57 | WobWork | awesome |
| 22:17.01 | WobWork | shows the power of Facebook =P |
| 22:17.14 | amro | yes |
| 22:17.23 | amro | that is the best group name I've ever seen |
| 22:19.01 | *** part/#wowuidev Spamurai (n=gecklesj@p57A492CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:19.27 | WobWork | 85 thousand members! |
| 22:19.33 | WobWork | surely that will mean something will happen! |
| 22:19.47 | Shirik | lol WobWork |
| 22:19.47 | WobWork | Cairenn: You must join to show your support =) |
| 22:20.09 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 22:20.42 | AbsolutRayne | @_@ |
| 22:20.52 | AbsolutRayne | Someone remind me why im leveling my Rogues Engineering |
| 22:21.10 | Aelo | parachute cloak + killing spree = flying + gank |
| 22:21.38 | AbsolutRayne | Thank you |
| 22:21.49 | AbsolutRayne | goes back to smelting like 400 ore |
| 22:22.41 | Aelo | AbsolutRayne: http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=115589 watch that whilst you wait :P |
| 22:23.16 | AbsolutRayne | Aelo: I find using Killing Spree on Ony equally as fun. :P |
| 22:23.24 | Aelo | lol xD |
| 22:23.33 | Aelo | could that drop you into the whelps? or does she not fly over them? |
| 22:24.44 | AbsolutRayne | She doesnt fly over them thankfully |
| 22:25.13 | Aelo | hehe |
| 22:25.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (n=nnnnnnnn@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 22:25.17 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|Away] by ChanServ |
| 22:25.23 | Aelo | ever hit killing spree accidentally on kolgarn? |
| 22:25.41 | AbsolutRayne | I think they fixed that awhile ago |
| 22:26.03 | WobWork | Aelo: "Oh look, he wears sandals!" ? |
| 22:26.08 | WobWork | I've done that as a tank >< |
| 22:26.12 | Aelo | lol |
| 22:26.14 | AbsolutRayne | Aelo: How geared is your Rogue? |
| 22:26.23 | Aelo | it's lvl 20 :P |
| 22:26.28 | AbsolutRayne | WobWork: Our MT used to walk off the cliff ALL the time |
| 22:26.32 | AbsolutRayne | wed just lol at him |
| 22:26.33 | Aelo | but i've had rogues in the raid who have done it before etc |
| 22:26.49 | AbsolutRayne | Ah. My Rogue is my main now. :) |
| 22:26.56 | WobWork | AbsolutRayne: I mean honestly, for a boss that size, surely some level of collision would be expected =P |
| 22:27.38 | AbsolutRayne | WobWork: I like the people that jump forward early on his death and fall through,too |
| 22:27.40 | AbsolutRayne | Or get stuck |
| 22:28.20 | AbsolutRayne | http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kil%27jaeden&n=Absolutshank Mah gnomie :3 |
| 22:29.12 | AbsolutRayne | Fuck, I forgot Bronze bars Produces 2:1 |
| 22:29.23 | AbsolutRayne | Oh well, guess I can just AH it for a chunk of cash |
| 22:31.08 | Kraps | haha, the tagline on the launcher for the race change is "Because I Would Rather Be A Blood Elf |
| 22:32.07 | WobWork | lies =P |
| 22:32.37 | Kraps | i swars |
| 22:32.55 | AbsolutRayne | Its true |
| 22:34.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Ginji (n=Ginji@cc624207-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 22:35.07 | WobWork | so not =( I'd not rather be a Belf, thankyouverymuch =P |
| 22:37.27 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 22:39.32 | NightHawkTheSane | trolls forever! |
| 22:42.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Hirsute_ (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Hirsute) |
| 22:44.35 | BWMerlin | tauren |
| 22:44.46 | AbsolutRayne | GNOME |
| 22:44.47 | BWMerlin | think i might race and name change my belf pally to a tauren pally |
| 22:45.07 | foxlit | Can I set up grid to display hunter pets, but not warlock pets? |
| 22:45.22 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: not afaik |
| 22:45.32 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: can i ask why you'd want one and not the other |
| 22:45.36 | foxlit | [Or, if you'd rather not deal with grid, can I determine whether a particular pet belongs to a warlock or a hunter from the secure environment?] |
| 22:46.08 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: I'm under the impression that hunter pets are contributing to their DPS, while imps should really be phase-shifted. |
| 22:46.31 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: i believ an imp's firebolt dps is non-trivial these days, depending on spec |
| 22:46.36 | foxlit | Also, bonus points for filtering out most of the temporary shadowfiend/treant/wolves trash. |
| 22:46.40 | NightHawkTheSane | but i'm not 100% sure |
| 22:50.08 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 22:50.40 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: still, an interesting problem |
| 22:51.38 | durcyn | foxlit: phase shift is now considered harmful |
| 22:51.54 | foxlit | I can't imagine why :) |
| 22:52.17 | durcyn | uh, prevernts buffs from being applied? |
| 22:52.31 | durcyn | or were you just being snarky |
| 22:52.39 | foxlit | No, just plain ignorant. |
| 22:52.49 | foxlit | doesn't play a warlock. |
| 22:54.59 | Shirik | warlocks suck |
| 22:55.48 | foxlit | But why would you care if your imp is buffed; and does it have to be buffed in combat? |
| 22:56.08 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: if, as i notied may be the case, an imps dps is non-trivial, then yes. :P |
| 22:56.15 | durcyn | because stats = dps |
| 22:56.24 | durcyn | blessing of kings, for example |
| 22:56.28 | Lunessa | Warlocks are awesome. And I don't use an imp. |
| 22:56.43 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.hulu.com/watch/106780/the-tonight-show-with-conan-obrien-shatner-does-levi |
| 22:56.49 | foxlit | Whose dps, durcyn? |
| 22:56.59 | durcyn | foxlit: the pet's. |
| 22:57.12 | foxlit | Well, then your argument has nothing to do with buffs :) |
| 22:57.21 | NightHawkTheSane | ScytheBlade1: someone linked me that earlier today, i <3 shatener :) |
| 22:57.31 | ScytheBlade1 | *shatner |
| 22:57.37 | NightHawkTheSane | er. yes |
| 22:57.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah he's impressive |
| 22:57.51 | foxlit | It just comes down to "It can't deal damage while phase shifted, so it can't be phase shifted." |
| 22:58.28 | kdtresh|work | how long does it last in aoe fights when it's not phase shifted? |
| 22:59.00 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: well, it'll automagically unshift in combat if its attacking, but before it might have it on auto-cast and miss buffs.. which is why durcyn said it's considered harmful |
| 22:59.11 | durcyn | ^ |
| 22:59.40 | foxlit | I imagine warlocks who care about their pets can resummon them easily, too. |
| 23:00.02 | kdtresh|work | that's a lot of time to spend summoning that's not spent killing |
| 23:00.51 | foxlit | Anyhow, I haven't noticed lots of dead imps in raids. Lots of dead wolves, sure :) |
| 23:01.21 | NightHawkTheSane | i think the melee/range thing has an affect on that |
| 23:01.28 | NightHawkTheSane | >< |
| 23:03.26 | Lunessa | SBO - LAWL |
| 23:03.49 | ScytheBlade1 | "You know you're a celebrity when.." |
| 23:03.55 | ScytheBlade1 | Poetry indeed. |
| 23:03.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Aqua (n=Aquavett@74-137-181-161.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 23:04.30 | Lunessa | "Anybody know where I can get some good weed?" - on Twitter |
| 23:06.11 | mitchnull | it's a trap! |
| 23:06.37 | NightHawkTheSane | its a tarp! |
| 23:08.51 | WobWork | http://www.teefury.com/archive/609/TRAP |
| 23:09.17 | smcn | www.getsomegoodweed.com |
| 23:09.20 | Dagmar | Lunessa: I hear the police have a secret stash they don't let anyone else into |
| 23:09.52 | Lunessa | Dagmar: Yeah, it's called Owie-Wowie. |
| 23:10.01 | Dagmar | smcn: I like how Google knows exactly what that string of letters breaks down into |
| 23:13.47 | Dagmar | Lunessa: Actually, I've seen it |
| 23:14.01 | NeoTron | ~wtf TRAP |
| 23:14.11 | Dagmar | They actually had to start making it secret when and where the TBI did their annual evidence destruction festival |
| 23:14.50 | Dagmar | ...and they had to start breaking it up |
| 23:15.13 | Dagmar | It turns out that if you burn four tons of dope all at once, it WILL send the nearby town into a bit of a hippiefestival |
| 23:15.17 | WobWork | "The British are feeling the pinch in relation to recent terrorist threats in Islamabad and have raised their security level from "miffed" to "peeved." Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to "irritated" or even "a bit cross." Brits have not been "a bit cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies all but ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorized from "tiresome" to a "bloody nuisance." The last time the Brit |
| 23:15.30 | Dagmar | rofl |
| 23:15.39 | WobWork | "The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "run" to "hide." The only two higher levels in France are "collaborate" and "surrender." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France's white flag factory, effectively paralyzing the country's military capability. " |
| 23:15.55 | WobWork | "It's not only the French who are on a heightened level of alert. Italy has increased the alert level from "shout loudly and excitedly" to "elaborate military posturing." Two more levels remain: "ineffective combat operations" and "change sides." " |
| 23:16.07 | WobWork | "The Germans also increased their alert state from "disdainful arrogance" to "dress in uniform and sing marching songs." They also have two higher levels: "invade a neighbor" and "lose". " |
| 23:16.19 | WobWork | Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual. The only threat they recognize is NATO pulling out of Brussels. |
| 23:16.29 | WobWork | The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines deployed. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms, so the new Spanish Navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish Navy. |
| 23:16.49 | WobWork | New Zealand has also raised its security levels - from "baaa" to "BAAAA!" due to continuing defense cutbacks, New  Zealand only has one more level of escalation, which is, "Goodness, I hope Australia will come and rescue us." In the event of invasion, New Zealanders will be asked to gather together in a strategic defensive position called "Bondi". |
| 23:16.50 | durcyn | is today email forward day? |
| 23:16.54 | WobWork | tis =) |
| 23:17.08 | WobWork | Australia, meanwhile, has raised its security level from "no worries" to "she'll be right, mate." Three more escalation levels remain: "Crikey!", "I think we'll need to cancel the barbie this weekend" and "the barbie is canceled". |
| 23:17.26 | Jerub | WobWork: that's epic. |
| 23:17.30 | Jerub | WobWork: i love it |
| 23:17.34 | WobWork | "To date, the barbie has never been canceled. " |
| 23:17.51 | Dagmar | That bit's pretty awesome |
| 23:17.53 | Jerub | WobWork: can you paste the entire thing somewhere? |
| 23:17.58 | WobWork | Jerub: sure |
| 23:18.02 | Jerub | (it's true, the barbie has never been cancelled) |
| 23:18.35 | Jerub | black friday fires? towns destroyed, populations decimated, what do they do? pitch tents and have a barbie. |
| 23:18.38 | WobWork | http://www.gettingdownunder.com/2009/06/05/alert-status-british-feeling-miffed/ |
| 23:18.47 | WobWork | I should have searched for a web version in the first place |
| 23:19.01 | WobWork | so durcyn wouldn't be irritated =) |
| 23:19.08 | durcyn | i'm always irritated! |
| 23:19.46 | WobWork | There are creams for that! |
| 23:21.03 | Dagmar | There's no problem so large it can't be solved by cooking and eating a marsupial |
| 23:22.15 | Jerub | Dagmar: you fool. |
| 23:22.41 | Jerub | you don't bbq roo, it gets too tough, you either use a roo mince or bake it gently. |
| 23:23.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@pool-72-84-246-12.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:23.19 | WobWork | s'true |
| 23:23.30 | Dagmar | I just said "cook" |
| 23:23.31 | WobWork | too much dense muscle |
| 23:23.53 | Dagmar | I don't think I have a spit big enough for a roo, so it would have to be tinfoil and burial |
| 23:24.26 | Jerub | the abo way of cooking a roo is basically that, but the entire roo, and no tinfoil. |
| 23:24.43 | Jerub | you use the crispy outer bits as utensils to eat the runnier inner bits. |
| 23:24.47 | Dagmar | Dig pit, line with rocks, wrap animal in foil, drop animal in hole, cover with more rocks. Now cover with LARGE bonfire and light. |
| 23:25.34 | Dagmar | It is not suggested you use liquid oxygen to accellerate this fire |
| 23:26.10 | Dagmar | I cooked a whole chicken like that once at a bbq |
| 23:26.17 | Dagmar | My friends thought I'd lost my mind |
| 23:28.42 | NightHawkTheSane | who's to say you haven't? |
| 23:29.16 | Lunessa | pit bbq is good stuff, maynard. |
| 23:31.09 | Dagmar | Well, I must admit it probably looked a little crazy when I announced "All the grills occupied? Oh, I now how to fix this!" and went back to the car and got a giant shovel |
| 23:31.28 | Dagmar | I bet they thought I was bout to free up a grill by homocide at first heheh |
| 23:31.34 | Shirik | Cairenn is a communist |
| 23:31.37 | Shirik | pass the word |
| 23:31.58 | durcyn | what'd you do now? |
| 23:32.27 | Cairenn | huggles durcyn |
| 23:32.42 | NightHawkTheSane | she is? well in that case |
| 23:32.48 | NightHawkTheSane | ~Cairenn++ |
| 23:32.59 | Cairenn | huggles NightHawkTheSane |
| 23:33.20 | Shirik | ........ |
| 23:33.32 | Cairenn | teases Shirik |
| 23:33.49 | NightHawkTheSane | :) |
| 23:34.03 | Shirik | evil |
| 23:34.07 | AbsolutRayne | Yay, off to farm Mithril for an hour. |
| 23:35.13 | Lunessa | wait, did you say Cairenn was communal? 'cause them's fighting woids. |
| 23:35.19 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 23:35.21 | NightHawkTheSane | haha |
| 23:35.30 | NightHawkTheSane | ~Lunessa++ |
| 23:43.05 | Shirik | CNN is so full of shit |
| 23:43.26 | Shirik | "Oh look at this independent video, it's decent quality so it must have been taken from a professional camera implying there was some kind of ceremony today" |
| 23:43.38 | NightHawkTheSane | s/cnn/mass market news/ |
| 23:43.39 | Shirik | _MY_ camera, which isn't even supposed to be a video camera, can take better quality video than that |
| 23:43.57 | Dagmar | You're watching one of the "opinion" shows |
| 23:44.10 | Dagmar | Fact != opinion |
| 23:44.11 | Shirik | actually it's standard news |
| 23:44.22 | Shirik | they suspended those shows for coverage |
| 23:44.30 | Dagmar | Esp when it's Nancy Grace or Jean Velez-Mitchell's shows |
| 23:44.34 | Shirik | "special edition" |
| 23:44.41 | Shirik | they're actually still on "CNN news at 11" |
| 23:44.42 | Shirik | lol |
| 23:46.48 | Dagmar | Hadaka: So erase the database and start oevr |
| 23:49.40 | AbsolutRayne | Mmmmm, Rise Against makes good farming music |
| 23:53.54 | Shirik | ok |
| 23:54.01 | Shirik | Perhaps this is cruel of me, but I just got this guild application |
| 23:54.06 | Shirik | And it has this line in there about himself: |
| 23:54.08 | Shirik | Im a 23 yr. young Health food Manager...I like to drink, smoke, and watch sports... |
| 23:54.14 | Shirik | Doesn't that sound a bit hypocritical? |
| 23:55.00 | AbsolutRayne | Sounds like your average WoW Player |
| 23:55.07 | AbsolutRayne | Remember, all three of those things make you popular. |
| 23:55.13 | AbsolutRayne | Especially if its weed. |
| 23:55.31 | AbsolutRayne | But yes it really does |
| 23:59.33 | Dagmar | Trashed Gamers FTW |
