| 00:00.11 | Adys | Shirik: how does it work exactly? |
| 00:00.13 | Shirik | Hey Arrowmaster |
| 00:00.39 | Shirik | I have this huge book of 101 Coding Standards |
| 00:00.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Tepel (n=Tepel@cc624207-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 00:00.48 | Shirik | Do you know what standard #1 is? |
| 00:00.55 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 00:00.57 | Shirik | Don't invent stupid standards |
| 00:01.10 | Shirik | There is no difference in semicolons vs. no semicolons for readability |
| 00:01.21 | Shirik | Thus youshould not advocate one over the other |
| 00:01.21 | Arrowmaster | there is for me |
| 00:01.22 | Shirik | just be consistent |
| 00:01.34 | Shirik | You cannot possibly tell me it's harder for you to read a line if there's a semicolon |
| 00:01.41 | Shirik | If you honestly believe that, you need to go get a CAT scan |
| 00:01.56 | Arrowmaster | i can quickly spot function calls and such without semicolons |
| 00:02.11 | Shirik | what? |
| 00:02.37 | Arrowmaster | if every line ends in a semicolon i cant quickly scan over it and tell what some things are just by the last character in the line |
| 00:03.01 | Shirik | you can't anyway |
| 00:03.10 | Arrowmaster | i can get a good idea normally |
| 00:03.11 | Shirik | and I honestly think you're nuts |
| 00:03.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Ginji[AFK] (n=Ginji@cc624207-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 00:03.45 | Shirik | http://www.amazon.com/Coding-Standards-Rules-Guidelines-Practices/dp/0321113586 You need this book, if not just for a full discussion of rule #1 |
| 00:03.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Thelyna (n=burp@219-89-246-193.adsl.xtra.co.nz) |
| 00:03.52 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:04.16 | Shirik | http://www.gotw.ca/publications/c++cs.htm I apologize, it's actually rule #0 |
| 00:04.20 | Arrowmaster | im self taught in most things, books do no good |
| 00:04.45 | Shirik | You're obviously self teaching yourself wrong if you think that's a good standard |
| 00:05.01 | cbreak | what is a good standard? |
| 00:05.18 | Shirik | that semicolons should never be used |
| 00:05.33 | cbreak | depends on the language I guess |
| 00:05.35 | Shirik | I'm not advocating semicolon use |
| 00:05.41 | Shirik | I'm advocating not making a standard for something as stupid as that |
| 00:05.54 | Arrowmaster | i never said they should 'never' be used, just not in lua |
| 00:06.00 | Shirik | I mean in Lua as well |
| 00:06.08 | cbreak | ; are used to terminate statements in C. They are used to separate statements in lua |
| 00:06.14 | GInji | Arrowmaster: but how will I run my macros then? |
| 00:06.18 | cbreak | sometimes :) |
| 00:06.48 | GInji | Though I guess a "\<CRLF>" could work |
| 00:06.48 | Arrowmaster | you dont need semicolons in macros except for certain situations |
| 00:07.00 | ccox | Crap. I've got candy, I've got decoration, i've got a costume, and now I've got a cold |
| 00:07.28 | Shirik | http://my.safaribooksonline.com/0321113586/part01#X2ludGVybmFsX0ZsYXNoUmVhZGVyP3htbGlkPTAzMjExMTM1ODYvMyZpbWFnZXBhZ2U9Mw== Read the beginning of page 3 |
| 00:07.58 | Ginji | Shirik: You sank my battleship! |
| 00:08.09 | NightHawkTheSane | ccox: watch a movie and eat the candy |
| 00:08.28 | ccox | NightHawkTheSane: I can't eat that much candy without making myself sicker |
| 00:08.40 | ccox | Maybe one of my neighbors can give it out |
| 00:08.42 | NightHawkTheSane | i didn't say it it ALL :P |
| 00:08.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@ip98-163-120-139.dc.dc.cox.net) |
| 00:08.50 | Ginji | Shirik: that page makes my FF crash |
| 00:08.56 | Shirik | Well FF is crap |
| 00:09.06 | Shirik | and it's not FF, it's Fx |
| 00:09.21 | Arrowmaster | Ginji: thanks for the warning, i wont allow its js to run then |
| 00:09.54 | Ginji | Segfault! |
| 00:10.00 | Ginji | Uhuh, enabling JS does that |
| 00:10.06 | Adys | Ginji: because obviously it's intended for safari |
| 00:10.12 | Ginji | Apparently |
| 00:10.15 | Adys | safaribooksonline... |
| 00:10.20 | Adys | whatever screw you all |
| 00:11.16 | Ginji | And FF is a widely accepted acronym for firefox |
| 00:11.22 | Ginji | And Friendly Fire |
| 00:11.31 | Ginji | And Fairy Fire |
| 00:11.37 | NightHawkTheSane | and youe mom |
| 00:11.38 | Adys | and final fantasy |
| 00:11.39 | NightHawkTheSane | your* |
| 00:11.42 | Shirik | Ginji: Accepted by everyone except the developers |
| 00:11.47 | Ginji | Really? |
| 00:11.49 | Shirik | The developers say outright that it's wrong |
| 00:12.09 | Adys | devs often are the most clueless users of their own product |
| 00:12.16 | Shirik | well |
| 00:12.19 | ccox | They really do mean " |
| 00:12.23 | Shirik | The Firefox devs do have no idea what they're doing |
| 00:12.24 | ccox | Fire Fox" |
| 00:12.25 | Shirik | I will admit that |
| 00:12.31 | Arrowmaster | the devs have also gone through atleast 5 names for it too |
| 00:12.38 | ccox | it's jsut that they weren't allowed to include the third word: "News" |
| 00:15.18 | Shirik | huh |
| 00:15.24 | Shirik | I didn't know you could make functions wiith no name |
| 00:15.30 | Shirik | er, functions with arguments with no name |
| 00:15.40 | Shirik | int foo(int) { /* my code here */ } |
| 00:16.25 | Ginji | future compatibility? |
| 00:18.46 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 00:19.25 | Cide- | regarding the last character deal |
| 00:19.27 | Ginji | Ah wiki does indeed state that Fx is preffered over FF |
| 00:19.50 | Cide- | I'm pretty sure the human eye scans way more than just the last character of a line, even if you're telling yourself you're only scanning it |
| 00:19.54 | Cide- | (if that makes sense) |
| 00:19.54 | cbreak | call it FiFo :) |
| 00:21.05 | Arrowmaster | Cide-: thats true but when theres less useless stuff to filter out its easier to quickly scan over stuff |
| 00:21.18 | Cide- | maybe at the limit... |
| 00:21.25 | Cide- | in practice I doubt it matters in the slightest |
| 00:21.29 | Cide- | but preferences are preferences |
| 00:21.31 | Ginji | Arrowmaster: which is your personal opinion |
| 00:21.38 | Arrowmaster | you would be supprised how fast i scan through stuff |
| 00:21.49 | Cide- | you'd be surprised how fast I scan through stuff |
| 00:21.56 | Ginji | You'd be suprised at how little you actually read of a line |
| 00:22.00 | Cide- | and I do it with semicolons too! |
| 00:22.11 | Arrowmaster | do you scan through memory dumps without releases the page down key? |
| 00:22.25 | Cide- | I don't read memory dumps |
| 00:22.29 | Ginji | Sure, I won't understand it, but I'll scan through it |
| 00:22.51 | Cide- | your repeat timer is either slow or you're not taking in much other than the patterns |
| 00:23.11 | Arrowmaster | right |
| 00:23.16 | Cide- | which wouldn't be occluded by any semicolons |
| 00:23.47 | Cide- | maybe if it was entirely semicolon-ridden but that's not the case here :P |
| 00:24.11 | Arrowmaster | semicolon instead of spaces and newlines and it would be hard to scan through that fast |
| 00:24.22 | Ginji | http://caveviews.blogs.com/cave_news/2006/07/reading_text_wi.html |
| 00:24.43 | Ginji | Arrowmaster: again, your opinion |
| 00:25.07 | Ginji | though the lack of spaces and newlines would be a pain |
| 00:25.19 | Ginji | infact I wouldn't even bother unless I would really have to |
| 00:25.40 | Ginji | But that doesn't mean having a clear terminator is a bad idea |
| 00:25.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Sarkp (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:26.07 | Arrowmaster | i didnt even notice at first he started jumbling the letters around |
| 00:26.29 | Ginji | tadaaa |
| 00:26.30 | Arrowmaster | but i am dyslexic and kinda used to it |
| 00:26.52 | Ginji | It's still a bit flakey to me as I'm not that good at english |
| 00:27.00 | Sarkp | heyo |
| 00:28.23 | Ginji | http://blogs.msdn.com/fontblog/archive/2006/05/09/594050.aspx <-- according to this there is a penalty for reading jumbled text |
| 00:28.30 | Ginji | But you can still read it |
| 00:28.48 | ScytheBlade1 | text (language meant to be read) is one thing |
| 00:28.59 | ScytheBlade1 | programming languages are a different beast entirely |
| 00:30.17 | Cide- | f)un(c; |
| 00:30.32 | Ginji | My point was that the occasional extra character does little or no damage |
| 00:30.32 | Cide- | f)cn(u; |
| 00:30.44 | Arrowmaster | fun(c); |
| 00:31.21 | Ginji | From a reading perspective |
| 00:32.08 | Sarkp | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRR_o3-xEEk&feature=video_response |
| 00:36.29 | Shirik | (20:21:20) (+Cide-) but preferences are preferences |
| 00:36.30 | Shirik | That's just it |
| 00:36.37 | Shirik | personal preferences should not dictate standards |
| 00:36.47 | Shirik | meaningful reasons should dicate them |
| 00:37.07 | Cide- | given that, I hope there's a standard for spaces over tabs? |
| 00:37.17 | Ginji | spaces suck! |
| 00:38.01 | Ginji | Seriously, whoever came up with the idea to use spaces instaed of tabs deserves a shot in the leg |
| 00:38.19 | Cide- | you're stupid |
| 00:38.20 | Shirik | I don't think it's in there, Cide |
| 00:38.26 | Cide- | do you code in notepad, Ginji? |
| 00:38.34 | Ginji | No |
| 00:38.36 | Cide- | or do you use a proper ide? |
| 00:38.37 | Shirik | that book generally deals with much more detailed guidelines |
| 00:38.39 | Cide- | or text editor rather |
| 00:38.41 | Shirik | like "Prefer composition to inheritance" |
| 00:38.44 | Ginji | notepad++ |
| 00:38.49 | Shirik | or "Compile cleanly at the highest warning level" |
| 00:38.54 | Ginji | for things I don't have an IDE for |
| 00:39.13 | Cide- | then you should read up on how to use your editor and silence yourself |
| 00:39.14 | Ginji | or, kwrite/kate when I'm under linux |
| 00:39.37 | Ginji | What possible benefit is there to spaces |
| 00:39.40 | Cide- | Shirik: I figured, I just wanted to fuel the fire |
| 00:39.51 | Ginji | aside from consuming extra time when I have to remove them |
| 00:39.57 | Cide- | THAT IS WHERE YOU FAIL |
| 00:40.10 | Shirik | that being said, spaces should be used instead of tabs |
| 00:40.22 | Ginji | "Yeah but when I use spaces things are aligned properly across all editors" |
| 00:40.26 | Ginji | Is the only argument |
| 00:40.44 | Shirik | or even the same editor |
| 00:40.46 | Cide- | proper text editors remove 4 spaces at a time (or n spaces for a tab size of n) if you're k*n spaces in on a line for some integer k |
| 00:41.08 | Cide- | which makes it equivalent to tabs |
| 00:41.13 | Cide- | now schhh |
| 00:41.32 | Ginji | Only when you enforce a with of 4 spaces for tabs |
| 00:41.39 | Cide- | what? |
| 00:41.51 | Ginji | s/with/width/ |
| 00:41.54 | Cide- | I'm lost |
| 00:42.04 | cbreak | tabs are variable length. |
| 00:42.10 | Cide- | proper text editors remove n spaces at a time if you're k*n spaces in on a line for some integer k |
| 00:42.17 | Ginji | Programmer A uses 2 spaces for tabs, B uses 4 |
| 00:42.31 | cbreak | a<tab>= 1; |
| 00:42.37 | cbreak | bi<tab>= 2; |
| 00:42.45 | Shirik | programmer A configures editor to remove 2 spaces on backspace, programmer b configures editor to remove 4 spaces on backspace |
| 00:42.47 | Shirik | the problem is? |
| 00:43.04 | Ginji | The problem lies in personal preference |
| 00:43.11 | Ginji | I find 2 spaces annoying |
| 00:43.14 | Cide- | there is no issue |
| 00:43.15 | cbreak | the same editor will make one tab one char shorter |
| 00:43.29 | Ginji | 4 I find just right, and anything larger is silly |
| 00:43.39 | Shirik | and what about 3? |
| 00:43.41 | Cide- | proper editors also figure out your tab size |
| 00:43.48 | Shirik | do you like 3? |
| 00:43.58 | Shirik | Because if you use tabs, 4 and 3 are mutually exclusive possibilities |
| 00:44.00 | Ginji | But I always want a tab width of 4 |
| 00:44.11 | Shirik | Ginji: And you're willing to enforce that on everyone? |
| 00:44.18 | Ginji | Yes |
| 00:44.23 | Shirik | that's pretty ego-centric |
| 00:44.25 | Cide- | <Ginji> The problem lies in personal preference |
| 00:44.27 | Cide- | oh |
| 00:44.31 | Cide- | what just happened? |
| 00:44.52 | Ginji | Shirik: You don't enforce tab-width when you use spaces instead of tabs? |
| 00:44.57 | Shirik | nope |
| 00:45.03 | Shirik | as long as it's not stupid |
| 00:45.05 | Shirik | I don't care |
| 00:45.05 | Ginji | That's odd |
| 00:45.12 | Shirik | 16 is not acceptable |
| 00:45.15 | Shirik | anything reasonable is fine |
| 00:45.23 | Cide- | besides |
| 00:45.26 | Shirik | This goes back to rule #0: Don't create stupid standards |
| 00:45.28 | cbreak | I want my tabs to take up one, two, three or four char widths. |
| 00:45.37 | Shirik | I have no reason to tell people what their tabstops should be |
| 00:45.43 | Ginji | Tabs leave more flexibility to the developer |
| 00:45.44 | Shirik | So long as it's readable, I don't care |
| 00:45.44 | cbreak | depending on how long it is to the next four char width boundary |
| 00:45.51 | Shirik | no, tabs result in impossible to read code |
| 00:46.02 | Ginji | It's no different then spaces |
| 00:46.04 | Shirik | If you choose a tabstop of 4, I am forced to use 4 |
| 00:46.07 | Cide- | tabs can screw up any code flow the original programmer meant |
| 00:46.13 | Cide- | there is no such issue with spaces |
| 00:46.27 | Ginji | But you're stuck with that width for the entire file |
| 00:46.33 | Cide- | wait |
| 00:46.39 | Cide- | you want to change widths halfway through the file? |
| 00:46.52 | Cide- | you can't do that with tabs either |
| 00:46.53 | Shirik | I thought you were for flexibility? |
| 00:47.02 | Ginji | lol |
| 00:47.10 | Cide- | you *can* with spaces, but it's still the worst idea ever |
| 00:47.11 | Ginji | I never said that |
| 00:48.16 | Ginji | I'm just saying, when you use 2 spaces you're stuck with 2 spaces for the entire file. While, from a personal pov, you might prefer 4 |
| 00:48.54 | Cide- | you should never change tab width halfway through a file |
| 00:49.00 | Cide- | it should be consistent throughout the whole file |
| 00:49.02 | Ginji | Who said anything about that?! |
| 00:49.10 | Cide- | you're stuck with 2 spaces for the entire file |
| 00:49.12 | Cide- | you did |
| 00:49.21 | Cide- | maybe you meant something else |
| 00:49.25 | Ginji | I never said anything about changing halfway through?! |
| 00:49.34 | Ginji | Nor did I imply it |
| 00:50.00 | Cide- | I interpreted "stuck with 2 spaces for the entire file" as "I'm being forced to use the same tab width throughout the whole file" |
| 00:50.10 | Cide- | in any case |
| 00:50.18 | Cide- | it's not difficult to change tab width if you use spaces either |
| 00:50.21 | Ginji | And where does it say "Hell I'm changing to 4" |
| 00:50.53 | Cide- | huh? |
| 00:51.04 | Ginji | The only point where tabs are annoying as when you reindent a statement on a new line |
| 00:51.35 | Cide- | and you have to push space 50 times, yes |
| 00:51.44 | Ginji | Huh? |
| 00:51.46 | Cide- | because lining up code with tabs is a big no no |
| 00:52.00 | Cide- | you can't indent further than the block's indentation |
| 00:52.22 | Cide- | so to make things line up you're forced to use spaces... many spaces |
| 00:52.24 | Ginji | What kind of IDE are you using |
| 00:52.33 | Cide- | it's not about IDE's |
| 00:52.47 | Cide- | if you use tabs to line up code you're fucking everyone you're preaching for |
| 00:52.58 | Cide- | s/fucking/fucking up/ |
| 00:52.59 | Ginji | That's what I said |
| 00:53.11 | Cide- | no, that's what I said |
| 00:53.26 | Ginji | Whatever I'm done |
| 00:53.28 | Cide- | and then I continued with "so if you DO want to line up code, you need to resort to spaces" |
| 00:53.50 | Cide- | only your IDE is not in space tab mode, so you have to do it by hand |
| 00:53.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-158-60-123.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:54.18 | Cide- | whereas if it was in space mode, you can just keep pressing tab because it inserts spaces anyway |
| 00:54.27 | Cide- | and makes removing spaces a breeze if you change your mind |
| 00:54.46 | tekkub | tabs for indention, spaces for alignment |
| 00:54.49 | tekkub | it's that simple |
| 00:55.05 | Cide- | you're going to pull the whole file size argument aren't you |
| 00:55.22 | tekkub | me? |
| 00:55.26 | Cide- | yes |
| 00:55.30 | tekkub | no |
| 00:55.33 | Cide- | good |
| 00:55.35 | Cide- | then we're done |
| 00:55.35 | cbreak | git packs contents. |
| 00:55.41 | tekkub | tabs for indent lets the dev pick their tab size |
| 00:55.49 | tekkub | spaces always line up |
| 00:55.55 | Cide- | yep |
| 00:55.56 | tekkub | that's all there is to it |
| 00:55.59 | Cide- | but what about the problem I outlined? |
| 00:56.07 | cbreak | there's no problem with tabs |
| 00:56.11 | tekkub | I don't know I just entered the conversation |
| 00:56.12 | Cide- | you have to push space n times to line things up |
| 00:56.23 | tekkub | oh the second line |
| 00:56.26 | tekkub | not really |
| 00:56.29 | Cide- | with space tabs, you have to push tab n/k times, for tab size k |
| 00:56.38 | cbreak | I just press return once |
| 00:56.38 | tekkub | if you have a decent editor, on hitting enter it indents already |
| 00:56.42 | cbreak | and the next line lines up |
| 00:56.46 | tekkub | then you only need a few spaces to line up |
| 00:56.55 | Shirik | uh |
| 00:56.59 | Shirik | you're missing the point I think |
| 00:57.05 | Cide- | I rarely ever continue the line at the same exact point I left off |
| 00:57.08 | Cide- | it's rarely useful |
| 00:57.20 | Shirik | If you do that, it's still going to be wrong |
| 00:57.25 | cbreak | it lines up where it makes sense, not where you left off |
| 00:57.26 | Cide- | you usually want to continue next to the opening parenthesis |
| 00:57.28 | Shirik | because as soon as the tab size changes, all your indentation is wrong |
| 00:57.38 | tekkub | no shirik... |
| 00:57.42 | tekkub | here example: |
| 00:57.54 | tekkub | \t\tfunction(blah, |
| 00:58.03 | tekkub | \t\t etc) |
| 00:58.13 | Shirik | I can't see more than 1 space |
| 00:58.16 | Shirik | but I get what you mean |
| 00:58.33 | Shirik | my client condenses superfluous spaces |
| 00:58.40 | tekkub | if you indent the second line with only spaces, yes that's wrong |
| 00:58.41 | Cide- | in true html fashion |
| 00:58.57 | tekkub | but a decent editor should do the tabs for you automatically |
| 00:59.05 | Shirik | actually, a decent editor should make the next line \t\t\t |
| 00:59.17 | Shirik | because it recognizes that it's not a complete statement |
| 00:59.20 | Wobin | You mean ,in true html fashion |
| 00:59.35 | cbreak | no |
| 00:59.36 | jnwhiteh | they both have valid purposes and uses |
| 00:59.36 | tekkub | if the editor understand the code, yes |
| 00:59.36 | Cide- | that's horrible design, Wobin |
| 00:59.43 | cbreak | a sane editor will make it so the next statement alings |
| 00:59.44 | Wobin | ^^ |
| 00:59.47 | tekkub | but that's above and beyond "decent" |
| 00:59.47 | cbreak | and not randomly pick a tab |
| 00:59.48 | Cide- | notes he successfully fueled the fire. once again. |
| 00:59.59 | Wobin | Don't tell me you've -never- had to pad with to get something looking right =P |
| 01:00.05 | tekkub | "decent" is basically everything except notepad :) |
| 01:00.10 | Shirik | my editor actually as soon as I hit a closing brace |
| 01:00.22 | Shirik | it goes through the entire block and verifies its tabulation |
| 01:00.25 | Cide- | Wobin: rarely, but sometimes |
| 01:00.36 | Shirik | (but it listens to overrides though) |
| 01:00.40 | Cide- | and not between words of only one space :P |
| 01:00.53 | Wobin | Cide-, hehe |
| 01:01.27 | Shirik | gives Cide another Krispy Kreme |
| 01:01.41 | Shirik | I have cream filled ones with icing in the form of a spider web |
| 01:01.43 | jnwhiteh | I use vimlines in my projects, so I can use whatever indentation is consistent throughout that project, since there are valid reasons for tabs and spaces =) |
| 01:01.57 | jnwhiteh | every argument against either one can be trivially refuted, which is why there's no right answer =) |
| 01:02.21 | tekkub | pfft there is a right answer |
| 01:02.27 | tekkub | you just don't like it |
| 01:02.29 | Cide- | well yes |
| 01:02.34 | Cide- | I've been trying to tell you that |
| 01:02.46 | Cide- | way to get with the conversation |
| 01:03.03 | Shirik | I think we all should use CHR$(14) |
| 01:03.10 | Shirik | for indentation |
| 01:04.14 | cbreak | use zeroes, they use the least bits... |
| 01:05.02 | jnwhiteh | Bruners: they'd auto-collapse! |
| 01:05.03 | Cide- | use zeroes since 0 bits are lighter than 1's |
| 01:05.03 | jnwhiteh | brilliant! |
| 01:05.04 | Shirik | huffman encodes cbreak |
| 01:05.15 | Bruners | jnwhiteh: cool |
| 01:06.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 01:06.58 | Lunessa | pummels baby murlocs. |
| 01:08.41 | cog|away | needs a 'puter downstairs |
| 01:08.58 | cog|away | /rw inc trick-or-treaters |
| 01:09.45 | Shirik | lul |
| 01:09.56 | Shirik | Lunessa :( |
| 01:10.25 | Lunessa | Shirik: Baby murlocs become fully grown murlocs. |
| 01:10.34 | Shirik | so adopt them |
| 01:10.47 | Wobin | adopt them out |
| 01:11.02 | Wobin | well you know, that's why murlocs are so nasty when full grown |
| 01:11.13 | Wobin | PEOPLE ABANDON THEM AFTER THEY'RE NO LONGER CUTE =( |
| 01:11.26 | Wobin | remember, a muloc is not just for Hogswatchday =\ |
| 01:11.31 | Wobin | *r |
| 01:13.13 | Wobin | And in the spirit of Halloween... Tim Curry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUhuPn8_d0Q&feature=player_embedded |
| 01:13.23 | Shirik | Fun algorithmic question |
| 01:14.27 | Wobin | oh god, the bat bowtie |
| 01:14.33 | Shirik | Let us assume we have two sets. Each set says the frequency of some values |
| 01:14.50 | Shirik | so for example we might have a set that says 'a' occurs 4 times, 'b' occurs 8 times, c occurs 16 times, etc. |
| 01:15.19 | Shirik | We want to find the set that is most consistently high in frequency |
| 01:15.26 | Shirik | this is hard to describe, gah |
| 01:16.01 | Shirik | Like, we want to find the one with the highest mean frequency |
| 01:16.29 | Shirik | but consider the possibility that set 2 has a mean 0.1 higher, but fluctuates all over the place (high standard deviation) while the other is almost all the same frequency |
| 01:16.41 | Shirik | hm, maybe mean is still right :/ |
| 01:17.07 | Wobin | The fact that they're measuring frequency is unrelated, no? |
| 01:17.15 | Wobin | It could be a set of any numbers |
| 01:17.22 | Shirik | it's related to the application |
| 01:17.29 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 3.2.x ToC: 30200 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | Let's do the time warp again! |
| 01:17.31 | Wobin | but not to the algorithm itselg |
| 01:17.37 | Shirik | nope |
| 01:17.45 | Shirik | I just figured it would give a better understanding of the problem |
| 01:17.46 | Thunder_Child | i dont wanna Cairenn |
| 01:17.53 | Cairenn | fine, don't |
| 01:18.04 | Cairenn | Happy Hallowe'en, all :) |
| 01:18.06 | Thunder_Child | humfs |
| 01:18.15 | Shirik | do canadians really put a ' in their halloween? |
| 01:18.36 | Wobin | e'en for evening |
| 01:18.40 | Shirik | well I get that |
| 01:18.43 | Shirik | but I've never actually seen that before |
| 01:18.51 | Cairenn | O.O |
| 01:18.58 | Cairenn | it's very common |
| 01:19.04 | Shirik | maybe in the boonies |
| 01:19.11 | Wobin | like Hawai'i? |
| 01:19.18 | Cairenn | but if you want, I can go even further - Happy All Hallow's Eve! |
| 01:19.28 | Wobin | Happy Samhain |
| 01:19.28 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 01:19.28 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 01:19.38 | Cairenn | Wobin: :) |
| 01:19.44 | Cairenn | Wobin: and to you :) |
| 01:20.20 | Ginji | http://nickgravgaard.com/elastictabstops/ <-- there, fixed it for you |
| 01:20.35 | Wobin | woo |
| 01:20.40 | Wobin | Blacksn0w! |
| 01:23.52 | Shirik | Ginji, that hurts my head |
| 01:24.02 | Shirik | let me show you why |
| 01:24.56 | Shirik | well I can't show you |
| 01:24.59 | Ginji | :P |
| 01:25.04 | Shirik | but basically, I just hit tab and code shifted to the left |
| 01:25.07 | Shirik | that's broken |
| 01:25.18 | Ginji | Why? |
| 01:25.31 | Shirik | whhy the heck should completely unrelated lines adjust to something I do elsewhere? |
| 01:25.57 | Ginji | Why are you placing completely unrelated lines in one block |
| 01:26.14 | Shirik | I wasn't |
| 01:26.17 | Shirik | they weren't even close to each other |
| 01:26.33 | Ginji | One extra newline should fix it |
| 01:26.36 | mikma | shirik: http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/homer_phone.jpg |
| 01:26.46 | Shirik | however, it turns out that they were in fact the same number of tabs away, which is why they shifted |
| 01:26.50 | Shirik | however, that's why it's broken |
| 01:26.53 | Shirik | it's playing a trick on you |
| 01:26.59 | Arrowmaster | hey Shirik i changed my motto on xbl, wonder if you can recognize it |
| 01:27.09 | Shirik | this should be good |
| 01:27.35 | Ginji | Shirik: exactly, it's playing a trick, it's adjusting the code to your reading preferences |
| 01:27.51 | Shirik | and thus tricking me when I try to make things correct |
| 01:27.57 | Shirik | which causes completely unrelated things to move arond |
| 01:28.16 | Shirik | so now I not only have to think about what I'm changing, I have to think about where it is in relationship to everything else, even though everything else isn't actually where it appears to be |
| 01:28.43 | Ginji | You don't look at the relations between your code blocks? |
| 01:28.48 | Shirik | I can hit tab twice and be 25% closer to a block to the right and up one line, but if I hit tab again all of a sudden that block to the top right moves to the left |
| 01:28.59 | Shirik | despite the fact that it appeared to be about 3-4 tabs away |
| 01:29.04 | Shirik | based on my earlier tabs |
| 01:29.18 | Ginji | That's because you're using your old style of coding |
| 01:30.07 | Shirik | I don't consider this better |
| 01:30.14 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: Probably something from soul calibur, but I don't recognize it |
| 01:30.19 | Arrowmaster | wrong |
| 01:30.52 | Shirik | what is it? |
| 01:31.30 | Shirik | Fate? |
| 01:31.34 | Arrowmaster | ill give you a hint, you probably dont recognize it because its normally in english but thats the official japanese for it printed next to the english |
| 01:31.37 | Arrowmaster | damn you got it |
| 01:32.21 | Shirik | xboxlive.com is timing out for me now... |
| 01:32.39 | Shirik | ~ping |
| 01:32.40 | purl | ~pong |
| 01:32.46 | Shirik | Oops! This link appears to be broken. |
| 01:32.58 | Shirik | I want to add in "or created by Microsoft." |
| 01:36.19 | Arrowmaster | so yeah guess what 'game' im playing right now |
| 01:36.39 | Shirik | guitar hero |
| 01:36.42 | Shirik | or dj hero |
| 01:36.50 | Shirik | guitar hero |
| 01:36.53 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 01:36.58 | Shirik | yes |
| 01:37.03 | Arrowmaster | my 360 is still broke |
| 01:37.06 | Shirik | oh I guess that was July |
| 01:37.07 | Shirik | lol |
| 01:37.20 | Shirik | I had just looked at your achievements :P |
| 01:39.11 | Shirik | aion?!?! |
| 01:39.27 | Arrowmaster | you are so fucking dense |
| 01:39.39 | Shirik | :( |
| 01:39.45 | Shirik | omg I know |
| 01:39.47 | Shirik | you're playing Python |
| 01:39.53 | Shirik | because Python is just a game, not a real language |
| 01:39.54 | Arrowmaster | what would make me want to change my xbl motto |
| 01:40.02 | Shirik | Fate has a game? |
| 01:40.10 | Arrowmaster | *headdesk* |
| 01:40.41 | Shirik | :< |
| 01:43.32 | mikma | arrowmaster: http://matin.maapallo.org/site.pl/selain/?c=sinfest&i=3319 |
| 01:43.44 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (n=robotusc@50A2DA6F.flatrate.dk) |
| 01:45.36 | mikma | hehe |
| 01:45.37 | mikma | http://matin.maapallo.org/site.pl/selain/?c=wulff&i=1414 |
| 01:51.41 | kd3 | whee; fark: "Coyotes attack and kill: Should you worry?" YES YOU SHOULD WORRY RUN FOR YOUR LIVES RUN RUN [Scary] |
| 01:57.30 | Shirik | has anyone experience with getting WoW to run through a proxy? |
| 01:57.43 | DWSR | yes |
| 01:57.44 | DWSR | Don't. |
| 01:57.55 | Shirik | ok, not a helpful answer |
| 01:58.19 | DWSR | Shirik: It's not meant to run over a proxy, and perhaps it's the proxies that I ran it through, but it was just insanely slow. |
| 01:58.27 | Arrowmaster | theres some programs the aussies use to force it to use a proxy |
| 01:58.33 | Shirik | It's not really running over a proxy |
| 01:58.35 | Shirik | it just looks like it is |
| 01:58.43 | Thunder_Child | or just play it remotely |
| 01:58.46 | Shirik | it would be configured identically to if it were running over a proxy |
| 02:00.05 | DWSR | Shirik: You need something like netcat for Windows. |
| 02:00.30 | DWSR | Proxycap/Freecap try to actually hook into the program as it loads and change something, which (usually) causes WoW to crash out. |
| 02:00.52 | Adys | [03:36:58] <@Shirik> because Python is just a game, not a real language |
| 02:00.54 | Adys | it is |
| 02:00.59 | DWSR | Adys: It's a game. |
| 02:01.01 | Adys | and you FAIL at it |
| 02:01.09 | Shirik | Proxycap is a program I heard of, but not free |
| 02:01.22 | DWSR | Shirik: Freecap is the free alternative that is roughly the same. |
| 02:01.27 | DWSR | Trust me, neither method works well. |
| 02:01.31 | DWSR | Netcat for Windows > both |
| 02:01.39 | Adys | i just made a prototype for website math login |
| 02:01.47 | Adys | when you register |
| 02:01.51 | Adys | you enter a formula |
| 02:02.21 | Adys | when you want to log in, you're presented a random giant integer |
| 02:02.30 | Adys | you calculate the result and thats your pw |
| 02:02.37 | Adys | also its really dumb but fun |
| 02:02.48 | DWSR | Was leaning towards the former only. |
| 02:02.56 | Adys | yes but |
| 02:02.57 | DWSR | but hey. |
| 02:02.59 | Adys | I get an achievement |
| 02:03.03 | Arrowmaster | how complex of a formula can you enter? |
| 02:03.14 | Adys | any mathematical formula supported by python |
| 02:03.18 | Adys | where x is the result |
| 02:03.20 | Adys | er |
| 02:03.24 | Adys | the random int |
| 02:03.59 | Adys | you can even use all of math module functions |
| 02:04.20 | Arrowmaster | what if i make a formula that can only ever have one answer |
| 02:04.33 | Adys | then your account isn't secure and to hell if thats my problem |
| 02:04.48 | Adys | you can enter x*0 if it pleases you |
| 02:04.51 | Legorol | woot, i love crazy people that do "insane in the membrane" |
| 02:05.03 | Legorol | i get to sell Pristine Black Diamonds to them for exorbitant prices |
| 02:05.18 | Adys | you can even enter x*0+42 if you wanna be a weirdo |
| 02:06.31 | Arrowmaster | what if i enter an unsolvable formula? |
| 02:06.45 | Adys | then you cant login, is that my problem? |
| 02:06.53 | Legorol | Arrowmaster: it's not solving it, it's evaluating it |
| 02:06.55 | Adys | also what kind of formula would that be? |
| 02:07.04 | Legorol | you meant to say "what if i enter an unevaluable formula", such as x/0 |
| 02:07.22 | Adys | you cant, I check for that kind of exception |
| 02:07.36 | Arrowmaster | are you challenging me? |
| 02:09.04 | Adys | Arrowmaster: yep I am |
| 02:10.19 | Arrowmaster | too bad i dont know python enough to be able to really make use of the different math libraries |
| 02:10.44 | *** join/#wowuidev ilya (n=ilya@85.110.35.53) |
| 02:11.03 | ilya | hi m8s |
| 02:11.05 | sylvanaar | Iriel is there a way to add to uidropdownmenu without tainting it |
| 02:12.14 | ScytheBlade1 | shudders |
| 02:12.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Spreadsheets... I'm using one :( |
| 02:12.25 | sylvanaar | Iriel it looks like there is - but im out of my area |
| 02:12.37 | Iriel | I believe so, depending on what it is you're trying to do with it, but i've tried to avoid the dropdowns whenever possible - they're scary 8-) |
| 02:12.41 | *** part/#wowuidev ilya (n=ilya@85.110.35.53) |
| 02:15.11 | Thunder_Child | *sigh* i am a pirate flying on a dragon.... how fail is that |
| 02:17.07 | sylvanaar | Iriel yes theya re |
| 02:18.47 | sylvanaar | Iriel it looks like they have a whole attribute based system in there for defining the menu - but i can find a good example |
| 02:22.42 | sylvanaar | Iriel you know what "*** TaintForced ***" is ? |
| 02:23.01 | Iriel | Yes |
| 02:23.28 | Iriel | It's a mechanism used to protect places where secure code calls other code that's not supposed to be secure |
| 02:23.32 | DWSR | what rep do you need in order to purchase mounts from another home city? Revered? |
| 02:23.47 | Adys | exalted |
| 02:26.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 02:26.55 | DWSR | Does anyone know if you can just use the Warlock Detect Invis spell during Day of the Dead to see the NPCs? |
| 02:27.04 | Torhal | DWSR: I believe they removed the reputation restriction in 3.2.0 |
| 02:27.24 | sylvanaar | Iriel makes sense |
| 02:28.05 | Dagmar | Are the dead invisible now? |
| 02:28.08 | Wobin | Thunder_Child, nahnah, you need to be riding a raptor |
| 02:28.16 | Dagmar | Does it *normally* let you see the dead? |
| 02:28.32 | Wobin | and if the raptor is robotic, even better |
| 02:28.47 | Iriel | Dagmar: It lets you see the ghosts outside of the UC |
| 02:29.06 | DWSR | Dagmar: Well, apparently the Bouquet lets you detect lesser invisibility. |
| 02:29.17 | DWSR | Dagmar: That is exactly what Detect Invisibility does. |
| 02:30.13 | sylvanaar | DWSR thats been there since release i think |
| 02:30.54 | DWSR | right, but day of the dead is new |
| 02:31.19 | sylvanaar | how about the extradimensionalghostrevealer |
| 02:31.26 | sylvanaar | you think it will work |
| 02:31.27 | Wobin | tekkub, seen the new SPIRIT BEAR? |
| 02:31.34 | tekkub | ya |
| 02:31.43 | kd3 | gets his ghost revealer out of the bank |
| 02:31.49 | tekkub | I may finally replace the bear I've had since I was lv10 |
| 02:31.52 | sylvanaar | i have mine in my bag still |
| 02:32.22 | kd3 | lmfao; I still have my baron's peasant caller too |
| 02:32.28 | kd3 | used that to cheese so many duels at 60 |
| 02:32.44 | sylvanaar | bank archaeology is fun |
| 02:33.23 | sylvanaar | i have never used my moist towlettes on any char |
| 02:34.13 | Dagmar | That's pretty messed up. |
| 02:34.34 | Dagmar | I always figured ghosts would be flagged as noncorporeal or something, not merely invisible |
| 02:35.02 | sylvanaar | just like naxx ghosts |
| 02:35.08 | sylvanaar | shades |
| 02:35.20 | Shirik | ~ping |
| 02:35.20 | purl | ~pong |
| 02:35.27 | DWSR | You can see shades with detect invis. |
| 02:35.28 | sylvanaar | the only ones which were special were the ones for the benediction quest |
| 02:35.31 | kd3 | shades are invis |
| 02:37.02 | sylvanaar | are we agreeing or what i cant tell |
| 02:37.30 | Arrowmaster | benediction quest and the npcs outside scholomance are the same, i used to use that trinket to watch priests doing the quest |
| 02:37.47 | sylvanaar | right |
| 02:37.52 | sylvanaar | only the trinket worked |
| 02:37.52 | Arrowmaster | but then they added a zone requirement on the trinket |
| 02:39.01 | sylvanaar | oh right, ok. you know the ghost revealer used to show the bendiction quest npcs also |
| 02:40.36 | sylvanaar | anyhow - thats more like phased than invisible - even though there was no such thing at the time |
| 02:41.06 | DWSR | Is there any way that I can test my TPS? |
| 02:41.53 | Cairenn | huggles bleeter |
| 02:42.54 | Shirik | lol |
| 02:42.58 | Shirik | the error message from chrome crashing is awesome |
| 02:43.24 | ScytheBlade1 | I need a new alarm clock |
| 02:43.40 | ScytheBlade1 | My "smart" one is adjusting to the DST change very.. poorly |
| 02:44.17 | ScytheBlade1 | (It tried to "fix" itself last week..) |
| 02:44.26 | NightHawkTheSane | :o |
| 02:44.36 | NightHawkTheSane | i didnt know they could reproduce |
| 02:44.41 | Arrowmaster | ive been wanting to build my own alarm clock that runs on linux and uses ntp |
| 02:45.19 | Arrowmaster | so wheres this day of the dead stuff at? |
| 02:45.21 | ScytheBlade1 | See, that would be a good investment |
| 02:45.23 | NightHawkTheSane | sounds like a lot of work for ont much gain. :\ |
| 02:45.34 | ScytheBlade1 | That depends, NightHawkTheSane |
| 02:45.36 | kd3 | if it's not the 1st server time, it's not up |
| 02:45.36 | ScytheBlade1 | On what else it does |
| 02:45.49 | Arrowmaster | oh, where will it be up? |
| 02:45.56 | NightHawkTheSane | ScytheBlade1: i guess |
| 02:45.57 | kd3 | [[Day of the Dead]] |
| 02:46.00 | kd3 | er |
| 02:46.02 | kd3 | http://www.wowwiki.com/Day_of_the_Dead |
| 02:46.05 | NightHawkTheSane | it could be cool with some neat integration |
| 02:46.41 | Arrowmaster | would be fucking awesome to build a linux based alarm clock i could control a google calendar |
| 02:46.54 | ScytheBlade1 | NightHawkTheSane: a fanless atom board + stereo system, for example |
| 02:47.02 | ScytheBlade1 | The alarm functionality really would be secondary |
| 02:47.26 | Arrowmaster | fuck atom, get a mips or something, you dont need power for that kinda thing |
| 02:47.41 | ScytheBlade1 | Depends on what else you throw on it |
| 02:48.01 | ScytheBlade1 | I will soon have a spare 1440x900 LCD that I want to wall mount somewhere |
| 02:48.33 | ScytheBlade1 | And really, light-based alarms are generally quite effective |
| 02:48.53 | ScytheBlade1 | My dad is deaf, and he has a light-based alarm clock |
| 02:49.13 | ScytheBlade1 | Think of a "hey it is suddenly daylight" strobe |
| 02:50.21 | Arrowmaster | for $50 or so you can get a wireless AP and if you get the right one mod a serial port into it |
| 02:51.20 | Arrowmaster | so youve got a 200mhz mips processor with wireless access and a serial port, just need to build the rest of the alarm clock connected to the serial port |
| 02:51.42 | ScytheBlade1 | You scale down, I'll scale up, we'll call it even |
| 02:52.57 | Arrowmaster | Shirik|AFK: stop being afk |
| 02:57.19 | Shirik | I'm not afk |
| 02:57.22 | Shirik | just had to restart my computer |
| 02:58.20 | Arrowmaster | so whats your opinion since youve worked with small embedded systems? |
| 03:01.37 | Shirik | on? |
| 03:01.51 | Shirik | sec, let me check my logs; probably asked it at a bad time |
| 03:02.28 | Shirik | do you really need an OS for that? |
| 03:02.38 | Shirik | I guess for the networking stuff it's nontrivial |
| 03:02.42 | ScytheBlade1 | NTP |
| 03:02.48 | Arrowmaster | to run an ntp client yes you need an OS |
| 03:02.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Makes the date/time keeping easy |
| 03:03.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Which is pretty much the entire point |
| 03:03.16 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: You could just write the client yourself |
| 03:03.20 | Arrowmaster | ntp plus auto updating of the distros tzdata package |
| 03:03.29 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: Actually, hardware is much better at keeping time than any OS |
| 03:03.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Not when you add things like timezones and DST in |
| 03:03.49 | ScytheBlade1 | And it quickly becomes worthless |
| 03:03.55 | Arrowmaster | right |
| 03:04.02 | Shirik | Unfortunately, there are only two systems I've ever used with an OS for embedded purposes |
| 03:04.10 | Shirik | Pentium and Cheetah (which I think is x86 based) |
| 03:04.27 | Arrowmaster | id just put emdebian |
| 03:04.44 | ScytheBlade1 | I've got a soekris board for a router |
| 03:05.10 | ScytheBlade1 | It's x86, somewhat expensive, takes next to no power and is designed to be a networked device |
| 03:05.10 | Shirik | I would vote for QNX |
| 03:05.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Might be overkill for that though |
| 03:05.19 | Shirik | over Linux |
| 03:05.32 | Shirik | but that's me and my hatred towards Linux |
| 03:05.46 | Arrowmaster | got a qnx ntp client and a way to autoupdate timezone info? |
| 03:05.56 | Shirik | it should have ntp support |
| 03:08.50 | Shirik | ~ping |
| 03:08.51 | purl | ~pong |
| 03:09.03 | Arrowmaster | ilya's introduction in f/sn is so creepy ive got the chills from just one line |
| 03:09.20 | DWSR | Anyone here use Dock? |
| 03:13.05 | DWSR | ?? |
| 03:19.52 | ccox | Shirik - don't hate Linux, just hate the bloated extras that the distros add, and the programmer wannabe's adding all the low quality applications, and trying to write drivers without learning how the hardware or kernel work |
| 03:20.11 | ScytheBlade1 | ccox: no, he hates the kernel |
| 03:20.30 | ScytheBlade1 | ccox: mostly due to his absolute love of how QNX gets things done, as opposed to how linux gets things done |
| 03:20.31 | Shirik | actually I hate the kernel |
| 03:20.39 | ScytheBlade1 | see? |
| 03:20.42 | ccox | Oh, and the devs who want to keep real users far away, and the devs who don't understand standards, or stable APIs, or quality code |
| 03:20.53 | ccox | eh, as kernels go, it's not that horrible |
| 03:20.58 | Shirik | that being said, I just came across something really, really horrible |
| 03:21.04 | Shirik | and that shows how fundamentally broken the internet is |
| 03:21.14 | ccox | it's a bit big, but if you trim off the fat and recent extensions, it's not too bad |
| 03:21.21 | Shirik | On a hunch after someone had a discussion with me, I tried tunneling Aion through SSH |
| 03:21.29 | Shirik | essentially all I'm doing is encrypting the traffic |
| 03:21.37 | ScytheBlade1 | and adding multiple hops |
| 03:21.42 | Shirik | exactly |
| 03:21.46 | Shirik | and I am seeing radically reduced lag. Not just ping time, but actual playability |
| 03:21.46 | Arrowmaster | and its faster? |
| 03:21.55 | ccox | I mean, have you ever worked with Mach 3.0 or VMS? |
| 03:21.55 | Arrowmaster | right same thing with wow |
| 03:21.55 | ScytheBlade1 | not surprised |
| 03:22.00 | Shirik | The justification seems to be due to QoS of encrypted traffic |
| 03:22.06 | ScytheBlade1 | no |
| 03:22.08 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 03:22.09 | Shirik | what is it? |
| 03:22.13 | Arrowmaster | nagle |
| 03:22.15 | ScytheBlade1 | It is far, FAR more likely due to peering agreements |
| 03:22.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Or lack thereof |
| 03:22.25 | Shirik | so broken |
| 03:22.32 | ccox | QoS isn't that honored on backbones |
| 03:22.44 | Shirik | I mean, it's not even a tiny change |
| 03:22.52 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm in Utah on comcast |
| 03:22.54 | Shirik | Aion was unplayable just a little while ago,and now it's practically instant |
| 03:23.02 | ScytheBlade1 | And ALL of my traffic goes to washington state and then to california |
| 03:23.07 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagle%27s_algorithm |
| 03:23.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Before getting off of the comcast network |
| 03:23.55 | ccox | if someone was dumb enough to use TCP for game traffic.... |
| 03:23.56 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: you are using putty for the ssh session right? |
| 03:24.00 | Shirik | yup |
| 03:24.04 | ScytheBlade1 | ccox: WoW uses TCP |
| 03:24.10 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 03:24.10 | ccox | ouch |
| 03:24.17 | Arrowmaster | you should be able to disable puttys disabling of nagle algorithm |
| 03:24.20 | Arrowmaster | i think |
| 03:24.40 | ccox | first rule of game development: don't use TCP, it will slow things down |
| 03:24.46 | Arrowmaster | putty disables it by default |
| 03:24.46 | Shirik | I think most people use TCP in games these days |
| 03:24.53 | Shirik | simply because of the ease of keeping a session together |
| 03:24.59 | Shirik | UDP you would have to authenticate every packet |
| 03:25.10 | Shirik | in some manner |
| 03:25.16 | Arrowmaster | right |
| 03:25.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Pretty sure that UDP in a rated arena match would do nothing other than piss people off |
| 03:25.32 | ccox | yeah, but it's not that difficult |
| 03:25.33 | Arrowmaster | otherwise i could have some amazing great fun spoofing UDP packets |
| 03:25.48 | Shirik | that being said |
| 03:25.49 | ccox | <-- forgot how many UDP stream packages he's written |
| 03:25.55 | Shirik | if your game protocol sucks, TCP isn't any better |
| 03:26.08 | Shirik | remembers a game where he was able to trivially talk as other people |
| 03:26.13 | Arrowmaster | the problem is that devs dont spend any time on the low level stuff anymore |
| 03:26.19 | Shirik | also remembers he was able to talk as that person while that person was chat banned |
| 03:26.37 | ccox | Arrowmaster: correct |
| 03:27.16 | ccox | Arrowmaster: though, some devs still do (and end up having to rexplain the basics to their coworkers on a regular basis) |
| 03:27.39 | Arrowmaster | except maybe the console devs that are all creating their own damn p2p hosting methods so they dont have to use a server for hosting multiplayer games |
| 03:28.25 | Arrowmaster | anything except a dedicated server just creates problems but they wont use dedicated servers |
| 03:29.53 | ccox | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=3271183880&sid=1 |
| 03:30.00 | Arrowmaster | blizz never did fix that |
| 03:30.56 | Corrodias | p2p will never work for consoles |
| 03:31.02 | ScytheBlade1 | That's because the TcpAckFrequency thing is an OS-wide setting and has adverse effects |
| 03:31.07 | Corrodias | i don't know why anybody would even bother with that idea |
| 03:31.19 | Arrowmaster | i think they might have disabled the server from using nagle but the client still did or something but people still got reduced latency tunneling through ssh to a box on their own network |
| 03:31.24 | ccox | Blizz did try to fix it, a few patches back |
| 03:31.38 | robotusch | wasn't that just something else they did? |
| 03:31.39 | ScytheBlade1 | They _did_ disable Nagle's for WoW |
| 03:31.44 | Arrowmaster | Corrodias: many console games are doing it |
| 03:31.45 | ScytheBlade1 | TcpAckFrequency is something else entirely |
| 03:31.53 | robotusch | yeah, that was it :< |
| 03:32.01 | ScytheBlade1 | that post is misinformed |
| 03:32.07 | Corrodias | many console games fail at networking, then |
| 03:33.19 | Arrowmaster | Corrodias: you have no idea of all the network based cheats, some cheaters actually go as far as to crate an ethernet cable with a switch in the middle of it so they can cause lag and take advantage of it |
| 03:33.28 | *** join/#wowuidev AbsolutRayne (n=chatzill@XPLR-MCI-74-127-239-30.barrettxplore.com) |
| 03:33.40 | AbsolutRayne | Evening |
| 03:33.42 | Corrodias | eh? >_> what does that have to do with anything |
| 03:33.46 | Arrowmaster | biggest one though is when one player acts as host and ends up having a major host advantage |
| 03:34.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Nagle's is more or less packet buffering; TcpAckFrequency is how often ACK messages are sent |
| 03:34.12 | Corrodias | exactly. and that's even assuming the host has enough upstream bandwidth to host in the first place. |
| 03:34.28 | Corrodias | few households have enough upstream bandwidth to host anything remotely interesting |
| 03:34.35 | Corrodias | at least in the US. |
| 03:35.01 | Corrodias | i have the best of what's available in a reasonably sized city in wisconsin, and i can't host an 8-player Left 4 Dead game. |
| 03:35.32 | ScytheBlade1 | 8-player L4D is pretty intensive |
| 03:35.36 | DWSR | Not really. =\ |
| 03:35.47 | Corrodias | it only asks 1.5 mbit upstream |
| 03:36.07 | ScytheBlade1 | I lied |
| 03:36.13 | Corrodias | if our internet service were halfway decent, i could exceed that easily |
| 03:36.15 | ScytheBlade1 | When my server did a public 8 player match |
| 03:36.20 | ScytheBlade1 | ~0.7mbit |
| 03:36.23 | Arrowmaster | 4 player should be a lot less since i bet a lot of that is just sending npc data to each player |
| 03:38.50 | DWSR | The problem is basically that providers don't want you hosting something. |
| 03:38.54 | DWSR | They want you to pay for hosting. |
| 03:39.27 | Arrowmaster | if i could get fios here i would so have the 20m/20m plan |
| 03:39.51 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1, what am I doing wrong :( |
| 03:40.12 | Corrodias | of course they do, DWSR, because it's More Moneys |
| 03:40.26 | Shirik | I'm trying to tunnel SSH through my box. When I tunnel it through this other service, it works perfectly. On mine, it just says "can't connect." The only thing that's different is how putty is configured (i.e., what box it's pointing to) |
| 03:40.33 | Corrodias | ISPs sure whine to the FCC that networks are expensive, but they don't give us any decent plans to show that we give a damn. |
| 03:40.35 | DWSR | Arrowmaster: Yeah. If fios was available in my country, I'd get that too |
| 03:40.37 | Shirik | Does my server need to have some special configuration? |
| 03:40.45 | ScytheBlade1 | yes |
| 03:40.47 | ScytheBlade1 | sec |
| 03:40.50 | DWSR | Shiibot: Yes. |
| 03:40.52 | DWSR | Shirik: Yes. |
| 03:40.58 | DWSR | You're running openssh, right? |
| 03:41.00 | Shirik | yes |
| 03:41.15 | DWSR | Yeah, it needs a special config to allow you to open ports to artibtrary hosts/ports. |
| 03:41.30 | Arrowmaster | it does? |
| 03:41.39 | DWSR | The daemon does, yes. |
| 03:41.39 | Shirik | it works for port 80 |
| 03:41.42 | Shirik | is that default? |
| 03:41.43 | Arrowmaster | i use mine as a proxy all the time with the default |
| 03:41.50 | DWSR | Arrowmaster: You using 80? |
| 03:41.52 | ScytheBlade1 | sshd_config |
| 03:41.53 | Shirik | no |
| 03:41.57 | Shirik | oh that wasn't at me |
| 03:41.57 | ScytheBlade1 | PermitTunnel yes |
| 03:42.02 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 03:42.02 | ScytheBlade1 | (possibly) |
| 03:42.06 | Arrowmaster | DWSR: i tunnel irc through ssh |
| 03:42.33 | DWSR | second. |
| 03:42.38 | ScytheBlade1 | keep in mind that TCP port forwarding/proxying is different than the tunneling SSH provides |
| 03:42.52 | ScytheBlade1 | Similar result though |
| 03:42.55 | DWSR | AllowTcpForwarding yes. |
| 03:43.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 03:43.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 03:43.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Wait, how exactly are you doing this tunnel? |
| 03:43.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Forwarding TCP ports, or the SOCKS based stuff it provides? |
| 03:43.49 | Shirik | SOCKS |
| 03:44.03 | ScytheBlade1 | Then that AllowTcpForwarding won't help much, iirc |
| 03:44.10 | Shirik | do I need to restart sshd? |
| 03:44.17 | DWSR | Shiibot: rehashing will work |
| 03:44.19 | DWSR | sshd reload. |
| 03:44.24 | ScytheBlade1 | yes |
| 03:44.29 | Shirik | sshd re-exec requires execution with an absolute path |
| 03:44.31 | Shirik | wtf why? |
| 03:44.55 | DWSR | security. |
| 03:44.58 | ScytheBlade1 | `which sshd` and tada |
| 03:45.03 | Shirik | * Starting sshd ... [ ok ] |
| 03:45.08 | Shirik | would someone like to explain how that worked? |
| 03:45.17 | Shirik | I... should not have been able to receive that message |
| 03:45.19 | DWSR | Shirik: Did you start your sshd from an rc script? |
| 03:45.22 | Shirik | yes |
| 03:45.27 | ScytheBlade1 | yes you should have |
| 03:45.31 | DWSR | yeah, manually starting your sshd again is bad. |
| 03:45.33 | Shirik | how did I stay connected? |
| 03:45.34 | ScytheBlade1 | ssh spawns a process per connection |
| 03:45.37 | DWSR | You should do /etc/init.d/sshd reload. |
| 03:45.49 | ScytheBlade1 | You can kill your ssh daemon and remain connected |
| 03:45.51 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 03:45.55 | ScytheBlade1 | I do it somewhat often |
| 03:46.00 | DWSR | Pretty nifty when you only have shell access. |
| 03:46.02 | Shirik | for kicks? |
| 03:46.11 | ScytheBlade1 | When I'm poking with my ssh server config |
| 03:46.23 | DWSR | Shirik: When you're reconfiguring your SSH server, it's nice to not lock yourself out by fucking up the config. |
| 03:46.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Exactly |
| 03:47.08 | DWSR | It's an epicly useful feature. |
| 03:47.30 | ScytheBlade1 | note that the child processes are also named "sshd" |
| 03:47.36 | ScytheBlade1 | so "killall sshd" is a bad idea |
| 03:47.47 | ScytheBlade1 | other than that, you can nuke the daemon no problem and remain connected |
| 03:48.26 | Shirik | PermitTunnel yes doesn't seem to have resolved the problem |
| 03:48.43 | Shirik | would you like to see my config? |
| 03:48.46 | DWSR | please |
| 03:48.47 | ScytheBlade1 | gonna need-- |
| 03:48.47 | ScytheBlade1 | yes |
| 03:49.06 | DWSR | :) |
| 03:49.09 | DWSR | pats Shirik |
| 03:49.38 | Shirik | http://wowi.pastey.net/127418 |
| 03:50.09 | ScytheBlade1 | you still need a better hostname, fyi |
| 03:50.20 | Shirik | I know :( |
| 03:50.27 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: it works for me without permittunnel and nothing else |
| 03:50.40 | Shirik | with what? |
| 03:50.42 | Shirik | wow? |
| 03:50.53 | Arrowmaster | not wow but everything else ive tried |
| 03:50.57 | Arrowmaster | irc, http |
| 03:51.01 | Arrowmaster | xmpp |
| 03:51.16 | Shirik | well it works for http |
| 03:51.16 | Shirik | for me |
| 03:51.25 | Adys | Shirik: so anyway |
| 03:51.27 | Adys | for a windows vm |
| 03:51.36 | Adys | do you need windows installed? or just a cd of it? |
| 03:51.37 | Adys | or what |
| 03:51.41 | Arrowmaster | then maybe its not the tunnel thats the problem |
| 03:51.50 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 03:52.20 | DWSR | Shirik: You can forward IRC over this box? |
| 03:52.57 | Shirik | wait I seem to have screwed something up |
| 03:52.58 | Shirik | brb |
| 03:54.22 | Shirik | yeah still broken |
| 03:54.30 | Adys | shirik :( |
| 03:54.30 | Shirik | let me try IRC I guess |
| 03:54.38 | Shirik | Adys: you need to install Windows somehow |
| 03:54.47 | Adys | on a different partition? |
| 03:54.57 | Shirik | well the VM has its own partition |
| 03:54.59 | Shirik | it has a virtual drive |
| 03:55.11 | Adys | so wait |
| 03:55.15 | Adys | do I install windows before or? |
| 03:55.20 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 03:55.32 | Adys | ok |
| 03:55.35 | Arrowmaster | you could depending on the vm software but dont |
| 03:55.45 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 03:55.45 | Adys | what vm soft do you recommend then? |
| 03:55.49 | DWSR | vbpx/. |
| 03:55.51 | DWSR | vbox* |
| 03:56.06 | DWSR | Only problem is vbox runs inside of a host OS. |
| 03:56.20 | Arrowmaster | im using vbox right now with its seemless mode |
| 03:56.23 | DWSR | Yeah. |
| 03:56.28 | DWSR | seamless mode's pretty OP. |
| 03:56.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik_ (n=mpdelbuo@122.100.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 03:56.49 | Arrowmaster | its kinda nice but i had to move the windows taskbar to the top and set it on autohide to make it stop annoying me |
| 03:56.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 03:56.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 03:57.00 | Shirik_ | ok |
| 03:57.04 | Shirik_ | whoam I |
| 03:57.04 | Adys | which one has best 3d support? |
| 03:57.06 | Shirik_ | oh fu |
| 03:57.10 | Shirik_ | don't autoghost Shirik |
| 03:57.12 | Shirik_ | gahhh |
| 03:57.14 | Shirik_ | YOU SUCK |
| 03:57.26 | Shirik_ | Adys, I refuse to tell you until you tell me what Shirik_'s host mask was at login |
| 03:57.33 | Adys | [05:53:40] --> Shirik_ (n=mpdelbuo@122.100.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) has joined #wowuidev |
| 03:57.36 | Arrowmaster | Adys: probably xen but thats because it supports vt-d, but you wont get that working |
| 03:57.39 | Shirik_ | ok that would be wrong |
| 03:57.42 | DWSR | 122.100.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com |
| 03:57.42 | Shirik_ | stupid mirc |
| 03:58.00 | Arrowmaster | Adys: otherwise vbox |
| 03:58.07 | Adys | k virtualbox it is then |
| 03:59.05 | DWSR | Adys: Vbox is pretty good. :) |
| 03:59.15 | DWSR | It's very simple and as we stated, seamless mode is winsauce. |
| 03:59.26 | Arrowmaster | it could be better |
| 03:59.31 | Arrowmaster | but its good |
| 03:59.42 | Adys | thanks a lot |
| 03:59.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik_ (n=mpdelbuo@heresiarchguild.com) |
| 04:00.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 04:00.12 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 04:00.23 | Shirik | ok |
| 04:00.26 | Shirik | after all that mess, I have determined that I can in fact tunnel IRC |
| 04:00.30 | Arrowmaster | well it could be better on linux because i think it should be able to fake telling the windowmanager about each window inside the vm but i doubt that would work well on other host os |
| 04:00.31 | DWSR | heresiarchguild.com |
| 04:00.32 | Shirik | but why can't I tunnel Aion... |
| 04:01.30 | DWSR | Shirik: Try forwarding the TCP ports. |
| 04:01.32 | Dagmar | Because you're not trying hard enough yet |
| 04:01.48 | DWSR | You'll need to put AllowTcpForwarding yes in your sshd_config. |
| 04:02.29 | Arrowmaster | forwarding the ports wouldnt do much good since the game is trying to connect to a remote host and not localhost, he needs it to use the tunnel as a socks proxy |
| 04:02.36 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: I would like to point out PermitTunnel did not get highlighted by vim |
| 04:02.55 | ScytheBlade1 | man sshd_config |
| 04:02.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Is all that matters |
| 04:03.13 | Adys | ah man |
| 04:03.14 | ScytheBlade1 | (It is an openbsd product after all) |
| 04:03.17 | Adys | they got debs and all that shit |
| 04:03.18 | Adys | winners |
| 04:03.46 | DWSR | Arrowmaster: No, putty *ought* to just take all the traffic trying to go out on port x and forward it to the remote host. |
| 04:04.01 | DWSR | Arrowmaster: If it doesn't, he can always use netcat, which most certainly DOES do that. |
| 04:04.12 | Arrowmaster | thats not how putty works afaik |
| 04:04.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu| (n=Sesshu@ip-50-18.travedsl.de) |
| 04:04.25 | Shirik | li23-154 ssh # /usr/sbin/sshd reload |
| 04:04.25 | Shirik | Extra argument reload. |
| 04:04.26 | Shirik | ? |
| 04:04.39 | Adys | I hate microsoft |
| 04:04.42 | Adys | I HATE microsoft |
| 04:04.42 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: what kinda tunnel are you using in putty? local remote or dynamic? |
| 04:04.47 | Shirik | dynamic |
| 04:04.54 | Adys | what kind of shitty piece of shitty shit enterprise |
| 04:04.57 | Shirik | it's the same as the configuration for the other service |
| 04:05.03 | Adys | decides that french activation keys |
| 04:05.08 | Adys | shouldnt be able to activate english products |
| 04:05.48 | Shirik | li23-154 ssh # /usr/sbin/sshd --help |
| 04:05.48 | Shirik | li23-154 ssh # |
| 04:05.49 | Shirik | ^ wtf |
| 04:05.57 | DWSR | lolol |
| 04:06.00 | DWSR | man sshd_config kthx |
| 04:06.04 | DWSR | learn2man. |
| 04:06.04 | Shirik | I did! |
| 04:06.30 | Adys | Shirik: imo, more useful than $ tar --help |
| 04:06.47 | ScytheBlade1 | sshd doesn't have any special options |
| 04:06.54 | ScytheBlade1 | For help that is |
| 04:06.58 | ScytheBlade1 | It is /all/ in the man page |
| 04:07.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Again, openbsd product |
| 04:07.03 | Arrowmaster | sshd isnt ment to be run interactively |
| 04:07.41 | Arrowmaster | which is probably why it just exits without returning anything |
| 04:08.23 | Shirik | still no good with the AllowTcpForwarding |
| 04:08.39 | Shirik | running uot of options lol |
| 04:09.25 | Adys | Shirik: what are you trying to do? |
| 04:09.31 | Shirik | tunnel Aion through my box |
| 04:10.56 | Arrowmaster | most likely aion and whatever you are using to try and make it use a socks proxy are not working together properly |
| 04:11.11 | Shirik | it works for the other service |
| 04:11.18 | Shirik | I haven't touched that tool's configuration, I've only changed putty |
| 04:11.34 | Shirik | and the only thing I see that I've changed is the server address |
| 04:14.00 | Shirik | in other words |
| 04:14.02 | Shirik | fuuuuuuuuuuu |
| 04:14.07 | Shirik | ssh hates me :( |
| 04:17.49 | Shirik | http://eee.ericsson.ee/~odt/wow-tunnel.txt just says you need to have a ssh server with "port forwarding enabled" |
| 04:17.54 | Shirik | I think that was done |
| 04:18.44 | ScytheBlade1 | That is the TCP port forwarding |
| 04:19.22 | Shirik | that's different from tunnelling? |
| 04:19.43 | Shirik | I'm confused >< |
| 04:20.11 | ScytheBlade1 | All that document covers is ports |
| 04:20.24 | ScytheBlade1 | You are forwarding ports one way or another in that |
| 04:20.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Tunneling in this context has a scope of the entire connection, or whatever uses the SOCKS proxy it sets up |
| 04:20.47 | DWSR | tunnel != port forwarding. |
| 04:22.22 | Arrowmaster | you either setup port forwarding where when you connect to localhost:port your connects gets forwarded to a predefined host and port on the remote end, or a dynamic tunnel where when you connect to localhost:port and act like its a socks proxy you can connect to anything the remote end can see |
| 04:22.54 | Gnarfoz | tunneling through ssh is needlessly complex, why not use openvpn? ^^ |
| 04:23.13 | ScytheBlade1 | hahaha |
| 04:23.17 | Gnarfoz | that way, you don't even need to force the connection to go through socks |
| 04:23.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Like that isn't a box of voodoo in and of itself |
| 04:23.41 | Shirik | I've never had a problem with ssh tunnelling before |
| 04:23.46 | Gnarfoz | *shrug* worked quite fine for me :O |
| 04:23.51 | Shirik | I don't know why this is going so poorly |
| 04:24.09 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: rewrite winsocks to use your proxy instead of connecting to the internet, that should work |
| 04:24.24 | Shirik | ... |
| 04:29.24 | DWSR | wow. |
| 04:29.29 | DWSR | Shadow dance daggers = OP for ST burst. |
| 04:30.16 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@172.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
| 04:33.36 | *** join/#wowuidev ColinT (n=ColinT@69-11-97-130.regn.static.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 04:36.54 | Shirik | lol |
| 04:36.55 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1... |
| 04:37.11 | Shirik | apparently NCSoft is intentionally blocking proxy servers they detect |
| 04:37.15 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 04:37.16 | Shirik | so I have to do some hiding somehow... |
| 04:37.31 | Shirik | there's obviously a way around it |
| 04:37.34 | Shirik | the trick now is to find it |
| 04:39.17 | Thunder_Child | play on a connection that has no issues |
| 04:40.34 | Shirik | if the internet infrastructure wasn't so broken it wouldn't be a problem |
| 04:40.45 | Thunder_Child | fix it |
| 04:48.02 | Shirik | this is interesting ScytheBlade1; tcpdump suggests that I'm successfully sending packets but not receiving them |
| 04:48.12 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 04:48.24 | Shirik | (at the remote side) |
| 04:48.26 | Arrowmaster | do you have a firewall on that ssh server? |
| 04:48.29 | Shirik | so it is tunnelling ok I think |
| 04:48.36 | Shirik | I'm pretty sure it's disabled |
| 04:48.41 | Shirik | (bad I know, but long story behind that) |
| 04:48.53 | Gnarfoz | anyone notice anything odd about this screenshot? http://www.imagebam.com/image/04e6a554111466 |
| 04:50.24 | ScytheBlade1 | yes, he is talking to harry potter |
| 04:50.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Or more likely, they shopped gandalf in to a potter movie |
| 04:51.29 | Gnarfoz | well... that's the question... is that really Ian McKellen, or is it Michael Gambon, looking quite Gandalf-y |
| 04:52.06 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1: Wanna be awesome? |
| 04:52.26 | ScytheBlade1 | not really |
| 04:52.30 | Shirik | :( fine |
| 04:52.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Mediocrity. Rock. |
| 04:57.17 | ScytheBlade1 | also sleep |
| 04:57.27 | Wobin | hm |
| 04:57.52 | Wobin | Torchlight is good training to once again get used to click-to-move and cast with the hotkeys |
| 04:58.37 | Gnarfoz | training for diablo 3? ^^ |
| 05:00.54 | Thunder_Child | D3 better be 100+ hours of playing cuse torchlight is short |
| 05:09.11 | Corrodias | maybe if they hadn't wasted all that time on SC2, we could have d3 by now. :V |
| 05:10.13 | Shirik | anyone here on Linux? |
| 05:10.22 | Shirik | Adys |
| 05:10.23 | Shirik | you |
| 05:10.27 | Shirik | come back to me! |
| 05:10.28 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 05:14.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 05:17.56 | Shirik | I've got to be missing something incredibly stupid |
| 05:18.39 | Wobin | Shirik, Tab A Slot -B- |
| 05:29.49 | Shirik | yeah, I'm tunnelling WoW perfectly |
| 05:29.53 | Shirik | Aion must do something strange |
| 05:33.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (n=ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 05:34.09 | Adys | Shirik: wat |
| 05:34.18 | Sarkp | epic win by the yanks |
| 05:35.17 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 05:35.23 | Fisker | i just put a thousand liters of milk on ah |
| 05:35.26 | Fisker | think it'll work? |
| 05:36.24 | Shirik | no |
| 05:37.51 | Shirik | THIS IS SO STUPID |
| 05:37.51 | Shirik | gah |
| 05:37.56 | Shirik | wireshark where are you my friend |
| 05:40.00 | Thrae | What's the easy way to get to Mul'gore so I can train weapons? |
| 05:40.39 | tekkub | take the zeppy |
| 05:40.56 | Thrae | That goes right near Thunder Bluff? |
| 05:41.05 | tekkub | TO bluff |
| 05:41.34 | Thrae | wAh, OK. |
| 05:42.17 | Thunder_Child | i hate you Thrae |
| 05:42.41 | Thrae | o.O what'd I do? |
| 05:42.57 | tekkub | first, you read the patch notes |
| 05:44.02 | Thunder_Child | Thrae, ping me :p |
| 05:44.15 | Thrae | Thunder_Child: ping |
| 05:44.24 | Thunder_Child | i mean thats what you did |
| 05:44.31 | Thunder_Child | sigh's |
| 05:44.46 | clever | Shirik: i just run tcpdump right on my router! |
| 05:45.01 | Shirik | I think I have finally found out what Aion is doing differently |
| 05:45.07 | Shirik | I can't connect to them at all |
| 05:45.10 | clever | Shirik: and i have linux on practicaly every system in the house |
| 05:45.19 | Shirik | Connecting to launcher.ncsoft.com|206.127.153.187|:80... |
| 05:45.21 | Shirik | <failed> |
| 05:45.44 | clever | set the routing tables properly for your gateway |
| 05:45.54 | clever | and/or use iptables to bend things |
| 05:46.06 | Thrae | I'm thinking of switching my router from Debian Lenny to pfSense (FreeBSD). |
| 05:46.23 | clever | Thrae: mine has LFS, which is basicaly 200 .tar.gz files and a book |
| 05:46.30 | clever | entire thing compiled by hand |
| 05:46.36 | Shirik | clever: It shouldn't fail |
| 05:46.39 | Shirik | they must be blocking me |
| 05:46.46 | clever | Shirik: let me try it here |
| 05:46.48 | Arrowmaster | we used pfSense as the main router for a large lan party before |
| 05:46.52 | Shirik | wget launcher.ncsoft.com/Metrics/Aion/GameStarted |
| 05:46.57 | Shirik | worked for others |
| 05:47.04 | Shirik | Connecting to launcher.ncsoft.com|206.127.153.187|:80... failed: Connection timed out. |
| 05:47.07 | clever | Shirik: connects fine |
| 05:47.16 | clever | can you wget google? |
| 05:47.16 | Shirik | in other words wtfhax |
| 05:47.21 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: can you ping google? |
| 05:47.25 | Shirik | I use wget all the time |
| 05:47.34 | clever | then they are probly blocking you |
| 05:47.34 | Shirik | of course |
| 05:47.37 | clever | stop trying to hack them:P |
| 05:47.41 | Shirik | I'm not hacking shit >< |
| 05:47.50 | clever | dynamic or static ip? |
| 05:47.55 | Shirik | static, it's a server |
| 05:48.04 | clever | try it on your home pc |
| 05:48.18 | Shirik | why |
| 05:48.22 | Shirik | everything works on my home pc |
| 05:48.32 | clever | could be the ip then |
| 05:49.16 | clever | or something within the hosting company fw |
| 05:49.31 | clever | this is why i generaly prefer self-hosting |
| 05:49.40 | Arrowmaster | or they blocked the netblock because somebody else using the same datacenter did something bad and they know its not a residental connection and see no reason to let it through |
| 05:49.40 | clever | i have total control of things, right to the dsl modem |
| 05:50.18 | Arrowmaster | i dislike self hosting because i dont have control of the cable modem or the power |
| 05:50.34 | clever | Arrowmaster: UPS solves the power problem |
| 05:51.07 | clever | my dsl modem has been connected since Oct06 |
| 05:51.27 | clever | ps aux|grep ppp |
| 05:51.31 | clever | root 3814 0.0 0.7 2340 932 ? Ss Oct06 0:20 /usr/sbin/pppd .... |
| 05:51.32 | Arrowmaster | roadrunner isnt that reliable, especially in the middle of the night |
| 05:51.45 | A-KO | if you need HA you don't rely on a single point of failure--period, I don't care if you've got a box directly on a tier 1 ISP's backbone |
| 05:52.20 | clever | A-KO: yeah, if you want it up alot, get several seperate hosts and use a round-robin dns record |
| 05:52.33 | clever | and get things right onto a major backbone |
| 05:52.45 | clever | so you have to break the internet itself before the damn thing goes down:P |
| 05:52.56 | A-KO | at work we use 3 connections, with BGP advertising over a different connection if one of the connections drops |
| 05:53.18 | A-KO | you lose a few seconds of availability |
| 05:53.22 | A-KO | but not much you can do about that :P |
| 05:53.24 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaGama (i=tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 05:53.24 | clever | BGP gives you alot more control |
| 05:53.30 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (n=stolenle@d86-33-207-79.cust.tele2.at) |
| 05:53.52 | A-KO | the only thing that sucks is that the routers aren't all that intelligent |
| 05:53.59 | A-KO | they don't look for failures in routing |
| 05:54.07 | A-KO | only failures in its immediate connection |
| 05:54.08 | Thrae | For my home router, I'm working on tethering my cell phone to my router in case my FiOS goes out. |
| 05:54.40 | A-KO | my firewall can do dual wan, I was thinking of a backup DSL connection--but it's of no use, because if the problem is further down than the immediate connection it won't know. |
| 05:55.09 | Arrowmaster | and it will effect both |
| 05:55.15 | A-KO | say a switch 2 hops down is having trouble, causing you all sorts of latency/dropped connections/etc.....your immediate router usually don't know this :P |
| 05:55.21 | Arrowmaster | thats why you gota go dsl/cable |
| 05:55.24 | Shirik | well Arrowmaster I just sent a wtf to them :P |
| 05:55.32 | Shirik | let their tech guys figure it out |
| 05:56.33 | Thrae | Next week will be fun. I'm going to switch my P4 32-bit Ubuntu Stable server to a Q6600 64-bit OpenSolaris server. |
| 05:56.56 | Arrowmaster | opensolaris? setting up zfs? |
| 05:57.30 | Thrae | Yep, I've talked to OpenSolaris gurus and I think ZFS will seriously help my performance issues with my current mdadm raid10/raid5 setup. |
| 05:57.49 | Thrae | As well as be a hell of a lot more stable then mdadm. |
| 05:58.17 | Arrowmaster | software raid5 is always a bit questionable |
| 05:58.51 | Thrae | Honestly I've only had a few snafus on the Ubuntu server with mdadm, but my Debian Lenny router just hates it. So I decided to just use rsync. |
| 06:02.23 | Shirik | I wonder if I could make a raid controller |
| 06:02.28 | Shirik | it would be an interesting project |
| 06:02.33 | Shirik | and it can't be that hard |
| 06:02.43 | Arrowmaster | have you seen a quality raid controller? |
| 06:02.57 | Arrowmaster | they are as big as older gfx cards |
| 06:03.11 | Shirik | I'm not saying I'll support everything |
| 06:03.13 | Shirik | but just like RAID0 |
| 06:03.16 | Shirik | I bet I could do that |
| 06:03.27 | Shirik | RAID1 would probably be easy too |
| 06:03.43 | Arrowmaster | going to write the bios for it too? |
| 06:03.53 | Shirik | would have to of course |
| 06:03.58 | Shirik | but I would probably do it with an FPGA |
| 06:04.54 | clever | you could make it behave like a normal sata controler |
| 06:05.04 | clever | or even make it act like a normal ide or sata device |
| 06:05.18 | clever | do the setup/configure via special commands or serial:P |
| 06:05.32 | Shirik | serial is needlessly complicated |
| 06:05.34 | clever | if done right, it would be fully transparent to the OS and not visible |
| 06:05.44 | Shirik | just adjust the code |
| 06:05.50 | Shirik | rewire it slightly |
| 06:05.51 | clever | no need for special drivers |
| 06:06.10 | Arrowmaster | special drivers are needed if you want to have any control at all though |
| 06:06.17 | Arrowmaster | like even just getting status info from it |
| 06:07.12 | clever | yeah, but you could sneak that in thru the standard SMART cmds that the os will let you use from userspace |
| 06:07.23 | clever | or some other interface that was designed for this stuff |
| 06:08.10 | Shirik | Thanks for contacting the Aion Support Team. In order to assist you with your technical issue, I am transferring this ticket to our Technical Support Department. A Technical Support representative will be in contact with you as soon as possible. |
| 06:08.16 | Shirik | 5 minute response time from the GMs.... that's impressive |
| 06:08.25 | Shirik | probably because they have about 5 open tickets at a time |
| 06:08.25 | Shirik | lol |
| 06:09.19 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: just finally got to the first fight scene in f/sn |
| 06:09.32 | Arrowmaster | not counting the prolog |
| 06:09.50 | Shirik | I don't like prolog too much |
| 06:09.55 | Shirik | erlang is interesting |
| 06:10.01 | Shirik | pascal is where it's at though |
| 06:10.09 | Arrowmaster | smartass |
| 06:10.24 | Arrowmaster | prologue |
| 06:10.27 | Arrowmaster | that better |
| 06:11.01 | Shirik | :D |
| 06:11.28 | Arrowmaster | and shirou's about to die |
| 06:12.04 | Shirik | you fail |
| 06:12.12 | Arrowmaster | its part of the story |
| 06:12.17 | Arrowmaster | he dies on the 3rd day |
| 06:12.24 | Shirik | then it's not f/sn? |
| 06:12.32 | Arrowmaster | yes it is |
| 06:12.38 | Arrowmaster | he gets better |
| 06:12.41 | Shirik | how can they finish the story without him -_- |
| 06:12.42 | Shirik | wait what |
| 06:12.54 | Shirik | that's totally like a monty python thing there |
| 06:12.59 | Arrowmaster | i know |
| 06:12.59 | Shirik | "... I got bettah..." |
| 06:14.42 | kd3 | yay, dst ended |
| 06:15.12 | kd3 | is wondering why gimp refuses to find screenshot's he's taking "in the past" |
| 06:18.03 | Sarkp | welcome to the past |
| 06:19.17 | Sarkp | damn http://www.ocregister.com/articles/pixar-up-movie-2468059-home-show |
| 06:23.17 | Shirik | lol |
| 06:23.25 | Shirik | half of Aion's servers died when DST ended? |
| 06:23.54 | clever | phail! |
| 06:23.56 | Sarkp | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=20677864008&sid=1 |
| 06:24.35 | Shirik | aion forums have degenerated into wow forums: http://na.aiononline.com/forums/server/view?articleID=9195&serverID=6 |
| 06:24.48 | Shirik | I care not lvl rank or anything else eather you killing bot or not anymore i see you you are dead we have upheld are end. allow player to so called kill bots and quest but you are not honoring your own word Pigeons will be the term i use myself now |
| 06:25.14 | Arrowmaster | was that english? |
| 06:25.21 | Fisker | what did you expect Shirik ? |
| 06:25.22 | Fisker | aion = shit |
| 06:26.16 | Shirik | well the guys at Aion told me (1) my server is indeed blocked, but (2) I should be able to connect if I only proxy port 7777 |
| 06:26.18 | Shirik | but THEY LIE |
| 06:27.33 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: actually i think shirou even dies and gets better during the prologue, you seriously need to play f/sn |
| 06:27.43 | Shirik | how much is it? |
| 06:28.41 | Sarkp | this guy isnt banned yet WHY? http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/search.html?characterId=195934162651&sid=1 |
| 06:29.32 | Corrodias | because the wow forums are not moderated |
| 06:30.33 | Shirik | I'll moderate your face |
| 06:30.42 | Thunder_Child | try it |
| 06:31.21 | Shirik | moderates Thunder_Child's face |
| 06:31.25 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: expensive since you have to import it for a legal copy |
| 06:31.40 | Shirik | how expensive was it for you? |
| 06:31.40 | Thunder_Child | ~dodge Shirik |
| 06:31.40 | purl | at the last second thunder_child dodges out of the way of Shirik's malicious and unprovoked attack. |
| 06:32.28 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: i never said i had a legal copy, i actually have 2 copies since you need the ps2 version to be able to apply the voice patch for the pc version |
| 06:32.45 | Shirik | I was trying to avoid saying that directly |
| 06:32.52 | Shirik | the appropriate answer was "not very" |
| 06:32.59 | Shirik | or "not expensive at all" |
| 06:33.05 | Arrowmaster | heh |
| 06:34.43 | Shirik | omfg |
| 06:34.50 | Shirik | google's logo is awesome |
| 06:35.00 | Shirik | you get to keep clicking it and get candy |
| 06:35.08 | clever | whoa |
| 06:35.12 | Shirik | and then it's all gone |
| 06:35.15 | clever | click or treat:P |
| 06:35.57 | Shirik | I think it would have been better if, after you clicked on the candy all gone |
| 06:36.08 | Shirik | it takes you to a search page on how to recover from being sick |
| 06:36.33 | clever | lol |
| 06:36.52 | clever | i should go grab a fist-full of left-overs |
| 06:40.44 | Shirik | trick or treaters are not allowed to come to my place :( |
| 06:41.49 | Adys | fuck |
| 06:42.00 | Adys | I need to come up with random names |
| 06:42.13 | Adys | for materials I could use in a space shooter |
| 06:42.38 | Adys | and half of the shit I come up with is already used by space shows/games I havent even watched or played |
| 06:42.57 | Adys | s/materials/chemical elements/ |
| 06:43.32 | Adys | Man, almost nailed it with Nitrium, but star trek had to take the piss |
| 06:43.56 | Shirik | f09uj23j02ium |
| 06:43.59 | Shirik | oiawsfium |
| 06:44.00 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO^ (i=as@c-69-143-90-155.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 06:44.03 | Shirik | oiashjium |
| 06:44.13 | Shirik | any good? |
| 06:44.16 | Shirik | I can keep trying |
| 06:44.17 | Adys | just get an authenticator Shirik |
| 06:44.18 | Thunder_Child | dont make Shiibot ban you |
| 06:44.32 | Shirik | Shiibot only bans me in certain channels (test channels) |
| 06:44.40 | Adys | ~Thunder_Child++ |
| 06:45.03 | Adys | FUCK THIS |
| 06:45.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (n=nnnchatz@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 06:45.05 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|Away] by ChanServ |
| 06:45.21 | Adys | all of the pronouncable shit i come up with is TAKEN |
| 06:45.28 | Adys | shit |
| 06:45.31 | Adys | even the unpronouncable one |
| 06:45.32 | Adys | methylethylideneamine |
| 06:45.49 | Shirik | LMAO |
| 06:45.53 | Shirik | my friend just sent me a gtalk |
| 06:46.03 | Adys | did you catch it? |
| 06:46.08 | Shirik | he's pissed off because I didn't answer my phone he just walked miles home because he was drunk |
| 06:47.41 | Corrodias | he could use a little exercise for not planning ahead |
| 06:48.07 | Thunder_Child | you answer gtalk but not your phone? |
| 06:48.19 | Shirik | me phone's on vibrate and nowhere near me |
| 06:48.23 | Adys | Thunder_Child: I do that |
| 06:48.34 | Adys | and my phone isnt on vibrate |
| 06:51.19 | Shirik | lmao, I think I have confused Aion support completely |
| 06:51.32 | Adys | stop playing shitty games then |
| 06:51.54 | Shirik | I have gone from someone that was saying "You shouldn't use a proxy, but if you use only port 7777 you should be fine" which seems like someone who knows what they're talking about, to someone that said "Can you please run our GameAdvisor program so we know why you can't connect?" |
| 06:53.13 | Shirik | Aion is a good game what are you talking about :( |
| 06:58.09 | Shirik | lmao: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y |
| 06:58.10 | Shirik | So win |
| 06:58.12 | Shirik | must watch |
| 07:01.40 | Arrowmaster | i didnt think the us release used that gameadvisor stuff |
| 07:12.33 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=doingwha@unaffiliated/dwsr) |
| 07:13.02 | DWSR | Hey, does anyone know how to remove the "Your copy of Windows is not genuine" crap that comes up? |
| 07:13.12 | DWSR | For W7. |
| 07:13.23 | Arrowmaster | change your key to a genuine copy? |
| 07:13.37 | tekkub | yea MS wants your monies, duh |
| 07:16.27 | Thunder_Child | crack it |
| 07:17.08 | Thunder_Child | hell i crack my windows because i hate calling them every time to say that infact i am reinstalling it for the 100th time |
| 07:17.21 | DWSR | T_C: Yeah, but I'm running the RTM |
| 07:17.23 | Thunder_Child | and no it is not installed on any other computers |
| 07:17.37 | DWSR | And Windows is saying that it's activated, but that it's not genuine. |
| 07:17.59 | Shirik | because it's not |
| 07:18.04 | DWSR | Obviously. :P |
| 07:18.15 | tekkub | if you ever want some entertaining reading, the windows genuie advantage blog is some funny shit |
| 07:21.45 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=doingwha@unaffiliated/dwsr) |
| 07:21.49 | DWSR | Changing the key worked. |
| 07:21.50 | DWSR | Thanks |
| 07:23.09 | Wobin | Shirik, ... that was 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back |
| 07:24.04 | Gnarfoz | so, the WPA (windows product activation, not the WLAN stuff) still has not really been cracked, right? |
| 07:24.04 | Shirik | so worth it WobWork |
| 07:24.06 | Shirik | Wobin |
| 07:24.38 | Wobin | hits Shirik with a spoon |
| 07:34.12 | Thunder_Child | anyone here have a pvp arcane mage? |
| 07:41.23 | Shirik | do you? |
| 07:42.22 | Thunder_Child | yes |
| 07:44.57 | Shirik | well |
| 07:44.59 | Shirik | there you go |
| 07:45.01 | Shirik | question answered |
| 07:45.14 | Thunder_Child | anyone here other than me have a pvp arcane mage? |
| 07:45.43 | Shirik | hugs Thunder_Child |
| 07:45.58 | Shirik | oh btw |
| 07:46.01 | Shirik | totally awesome |
| 07:46.16 | Shirik | I now have a (legit) license for cryengine |
| 07:47.52 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, make a 3D peggle with accurate physics |
| 07:48.05 | Shirik | unfortunately I can only use it for one purpose :( |
| 07:48.15 | Shirik | since I got as a sponsorship |
| 07:52.08 | Shirik | ow |
| 07:52.12 | Shirik | my support ticket has asploded |
| 07:52.53 | Shirik | it now goes something like "Please see the attached file as requested." "Hello, welcome to support. Blah blah" "No this is not an open proxy service this is my box." "Please see the attached file as requested." "Could you please attach this file?" "Please see the attached file as requested." |
| 07:53.06 | Shirik | Stupid daylight savings time screwed over the ticket lol |
| 07:56.17 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, if the game is being blocked from playing normally there is prolly a good reason |
| 07:56.49 | Shirik | hm? |
| 07:57.55 | Thunder_Child | what exactly do you not get about what i said? |
| 07:58.21 | Shirik | game blocked from playing normally? |
| 07:58.34 | Thunder_Child | why do you need to use a proxy? |
| 07:59.39 | Shirik | the lag is extremely bad |
| 07:59.41 | Shirik | otherwise |
| 07:59.49 | Shirik | Don't ask me why |
| 07:59.54 | Shirik | it just is |
| 07:59.56 | Thunder_Child | why? |
| 08:00.02 | Shirik | do not tempt me |
| 08:00.07 | Shirik | Do you see what happened to Fisker? |
| 08:00.11 | Thunder_Child | tempts Shirik |
| 08:00.13 | Shirik | He got 100000 liters of milk |
| 08:00.18 | Shirik | would you like 200000? |
| 08:00.54 | Thunder_Child | can i get 1000 lbs of cracklin oat brean to go with it? |
| 08:00.57 | Thunder_Child | bran* |
| 08:02.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:03.41 | Shirik | no |
| 08:03.45 | Shirik | only milk |
| 08:04.28 | Thunder_Child | ok, i'll just sell it then |
| 08:06.20 | Shirik | wait |
| 08:06.22 | Shirik | is it 3? |
| 08:06.26 | Shirik | or has my clock not gone back yet |
| 08:07.48 | Thunder_Child | Shirik, should be since it's 2 PST |
| 08:07.57 | Thunder_Child | 1 |
| 08:07.59 | Thunder_Child | i mean |
| 08:08.09 | Shirik | owned |
| 08:08.47 | Cairenn | TV guide thinks it's 4, but the TV and my computer both tell me it's 3 |
| 08:09.16 | Cairenn | so I'd say that yes, the time change has occurred for you as well ;) |
| 08:10.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 08:18.36 | Shirik | tackles Cairenn |
| 08:18.44 | Cairenn | oofs and falls over |
| 08:18.46 | Shirik | I see Repo is taking the time change well |
| 08:18.59 | Adys | man |
| 08:19.01 | Adys | i love wave |
| 08:19.56 | Cairenn | huggles Shirik |
| 08:19.59 | Wobin | Adys, hm, can't connect to wave =P |
| 08:20.03 | Shirik | :3 |
| 08:20.20 | Wobin | oh there we go |
| 08:20.28 | Wobin | what's your googlewave account, Adys? |
| 08:20.32 | Adys | adys.wh |
| 08:20.44 | Adys | i think you got me on list |
| 08:20.48 | Adys | you're wobatwork? |
| 08:20.49 | Shirik | what is Wobin! |
| 08:20.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C05D2.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 08:21.12 | Shirik | I found you Wobin |
| 08:21.15 | Shirik | you cannot hide from me |
| 08:22.00 | Shirik | Talk to me; show some pity; you touch me in many many ways but I'm shy can't you see |
| 08:23.55 | Adys | touches Shirik in many ways |
| 08:24.02 | Shirik | oh baby |
| 08:24.13 | Shirik | (ironically that really is the next line in the lyrics) |
| 08:24.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras (n=Sargeras@75.80.16.10) |
| 08:24.44 | Wobin | Adys, yea |
| 08:25.44 | Adys | who's Ian? |
| 08:26.17 | Shirik | feels left out :( |
| 08:26.25 | Wobin | what's your email, Shirik? |
| 08:26.51 | Shirik | you don't know? |
| 08:26.56 | Shirik | you don't follow my life? |
| 08:27.02 | Shirik | you should know everything about me |
| 08:27.52 | Wobin | ah, but it doesn't necessarily follow you use the -same- email for everything |
| 08:29.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Arrowmaster (i=arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 08:33.16 | Wobin | hm |
| 08:33.24 | Shirik | hm indeed |
| 08:33.26 | Wobin | banana walnut cranberry muffins |
| 08:33.30 | Shirik | negative |
| 08:33.40 | Shirik | custard filled spider web krispy kreme donuts |
| 08:33.48 | Wobin | just out of the oven |
| 08:33.56 | zenzelezz | now that's a funky e-mail address |
| 08:34.08 | Shirik | ? |
| 08:34.28 | Adys | reminds me |
| 08:34.35 | Adys | who else wants in on a feedback wave? |
| 08:36.17 | Shirik | btw |
| 08:36.20 | Shirik | Google Wave is awesome |
| 08:36.23 | Shirik | when you have a purpose for it |
| 08:36.30 | Shirik | when you don't have a purpose for it, it's kinda like "well wtf" |
| 08:36.50 | Wobin | true |
| 08:36.54 | Adys | ~shirik++ |
| 08:37.07 | Adys | I keep my todos on wave |
| 08:38.14 | Shirik | so |
| 08:38.16 | Shirik | wtf is this crap |
| 08:38.20 | Shirik | google wave has no labs |
| 08:38.49 | Cairenn | lol ... there are many who would be likely to say that wave /is/ a lab :) |
| 08:38.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@d019021.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 08:38.58 | zenzelezz | :) |
| 08:39.06 | Shirik | that was the joke mostly :) |
| 08:39.10 | zenzelezz | labs Cairenn |
| 08:39.17 | Shirik | I want to alpha test an alpha program |
| 08:39.21 | Shirik | add alpha features |
| 08:39.22 | zenzelezz | +at |
| 08:39.24 | Shirik | go superalpha |
| 08:39.53 | zenzelezz | wasn't there some CPU architecture called Alpha? |
| 08:40.41 | zenzelezz | DEC Alpha :-o |
| 08:42.25 | Mikk | Yes. NT4 ran on it. |
| 08:42.47 | Mikk | And 3.5 |
| 08:43.04 | Wobin | hm, I'm totally making this recipe again |
| 08:43.09 | Wobin | the streusal topping makes it awesome |
| 08:44.53 | Thunder_Child | you just did Shirik |
| 08:45.52 | Gnarfoz | Streusel, if that was supposed to be German |
| 08:46.15 | Arrowmaster | alpha used to be the primary arch for HP-UX i think until they switched to ia64 |
| 08:46.51 | Shirik | I lol'd: http://images.gammatester.com/pics/ed47dbb84878294facfff7ee0b4fbd77.png |
| 08:47.30 | Thunder_Child | well, now we know what email address to spam |
| 08:47.41 | Shirik | not really |
| 08:48.00 | Shirik | the mail coming in on this account is primarily automated |
| 08:48.03 | zenzelezz | that's a lot of mail for the inbox :-o |
| 08:48.13 | Thunder_Child | i didnt say this email address |
| 08:48.15 | zenzelezz | you have a cronjob spamming you ever 1 minute or something? |
| 08:48.20 | clever | oops, i killed an elite by mistake |
| 08:48.21 | clever | lol |
| 08:48.22 | zenzelezz | +y |
| 08:48.31 | Shirik | zenzelezz: No, that would be all the people that got banned |
| 08:48.53 | clever | didnt realize what i was killing till it was half dead |
| 08:49.09 | zenzelezz | that's a lot of bans |
| 08:49.13 | Shirik | yes well |
| 08:49.19 | Shirik | my ssh is on default port |
| 08:49.41 | Shirik | and there's a lot of bots out there trying to poke EQDKP sites which I also run |
| 08:49.48 | Shirik | so uh |
| 08:49.49 | zenzelezz | aha |
| 08:49.54 | zenzelezz | I thought you meant forum bans or something |
| 08:50.00 | Shirik | no |
| 08:50.15 | Arrowmaster | ive run a default port ssh and http on a residential cable connection, you are always getting attacked |
| 08:50.19 | Shirik | every one that says SSH was an attempt to break in through SSH, and every one that says HTTPis a detected hack attempt against one of the HTTP services |
| 08:52.04 | Corrodias | my http server has finally attracted enough attention to get people trying GET commands with full paths to other domains. i'm told this is an attempt to use it as a proxy, which fails. |
| 08:52.33 | clever | yep, thats how some proxys work |
| 08:52.38 | clever | and how old http worked |
| 08:52.54 | clever | it used a full path with http:// and all, to allow virtual hosting |
| 08:53.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Subdino (n=vincent@ALille-154-1-64-1.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:55.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@d019021.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 08:55.36 | clever | its probly not even a smart scanner |
| 08:55.49 | clever | it just tries to use anything with port 80 open as a proxy |
| 08:57.38 | Shirik | runs a GET request on Corrodias |
| 08:59.06 | Corrodias | is 403 forbidden. |
| 08:59.20 | Shirik | ooh |
| 08:59.30 | Shirik | kinky ;3 |
| 09:00.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Arrowmaster (i=arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 09:00.11 | Shirik | ok sleepybye time I think |
| 09:00.14 | zenzelezz | interesting, I was expecting 402 |
| 09:00.37 | Shirik | zenzelezz.... |
| 09:00.40 | Shirik | wtf >< |
| 09:01.06 | clever | lol |
| 09:01.32 | clever | how often is 402 ever actualy used? |
| 09:01.40 | zenzelezz | not often I imagine |
| 09:01.55 | clever | even when it is pay only shit, they use 200 and give a cc form |
| 09:02.25 | zenzelezz | it could be used for services that use HTTP, but aren't actually websites |
| 09:02.31 | Shirik | I don't think 402 is in use at all |
| 09:02.37 | Shirik | I doubt any browser knows wtf it means |
| 09:04.43 | Shirik | http://shiibot.com/402.php |
| 09:05.13 | zenzelezz | :-p |
| 09:05.15 | clever | 402 Payment Required |
| 09:05.16 | clever | You want dem ho's you need dem doughs. |
| 09:05.24 | clever | firefox just shows the html error:P |
| 09:05.54 | clever | its basicaly treating it as 200 |
| 09:06.11 | Shirik | http://shiibot.com/402_blank.php for a non-content 402 |
| 09:06.26 | clever | its blank!! |
| 09:06.30 | Corrodias | cute, it shows nothing |
| 09:06.46 | clever | lets try ie |
| 09:07.05 | Shirik | I don't think any browser knows what 402 is |
| 09:07.18 | clever | same thing as ff |
| 09:07.22 | clever | it treats it like code 200 |
| 09:10.07 | *** join/#wowuidev AbsolutRayne (n=chatzill@XPLR-MCI-74-127-239-30.barrettxplore.com) |
| 09:10.51 | Shirik | HTTP/1.1·500·Internal·Server·Error(CR)(LF) |
| 09:10.53 | Shirik | bullshit |
| 09:11.08 | Shirik | why can't I send a header that says HTTP/1.1 40000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Really Long Error |
| 09:11.12 | Shirik | PHP just sends a 500 |
| 09:11.25 | Arrowmaster | because all http error codes are 3 digits |
| 09:11.31 | Shirik | so |
| 09:11.40 | zenzelezz | try 666 |
| 09:12.08 | Arrowmaster | 418 |
| 09:12.19 | clever | Arrowmaster: LOL |
| 09:12.48 | Arrowmaster | wowace has an http 418 error page |
| 09:13.23 | Shirik | in perl do I get to specify headers? |
| 09:13.44 | clever | you should be able to atleast to normal headers |
| 09:13.48 | clever | thats how cookies are done |
| 09:13.59 | clever | dont know about the main header, HTTP/1.1 |
| 09:15.31 | Shirik | I have to recompile apache :( |
| 09:16.05 | clever | DONT DO IT |
| 09:16.08 | clever | ITS A TRAP! |
| 09:16.29 | Shirik | nm, found a way around it |
| 09:16.29 | Shirik | yey |
| 09:16.38 | clever | see:P |
| 09:16.39 | Shirik | gentoo is so awesome |
| 09:16.46 | Shirik | EAT THAT SILLY APTITUDE |
| 09:16.56 | clever | gentoo here also:P |
| 09:17.00 | clever | but i'm in xp atm |
| 09:17.25 | Shirik | nevcairiel agrees |
| 09:17.46 | *** join/#wowuidev AnduinLothar (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Cosmos/AnduinLothar) |
| 09:17.47 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v AnduinLothar] by ChanServ |
| 09:18.45 | Shirik | you know, it would be really wierd if you lived your life in reverse |
| 09:18.50 | Shirik | and everyone else still lived normally |
| 09:19.23 | clever | ive seen a movie or 2 on that idea |
| 09:19.34 | Shirik | I think I've heard of it before |
| 09:19.39 | Shirik | just never actually seen anything on it |
| 09:19.40 | Corrodias | blizzard's beta profiler application is apparently customized to your account? norton threw a fit, though it let me run it. |
| 09:19.44 | Arrowmaster | is that one of the merlin myths |
| 09:19.53 | Shirik | is it? |
| 09:20.14 | Corrodias | of course, since it never asks for credentials or anything, it must be |
| 09:20.16 | Arrowmaster | i dont know it is according to a tv show |
| 09:21.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (n=Kazie@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 09:25.05 | Wobin | argh |
| 09:25.11 | Wobin | stupid day of the dead pet =( |
| 09:25.24 | clever | i cant even find a place to get those things |
| 09:25.25 | Adys | Anyone has a spare google wave invite? |
| 09:25.44 | Wobin | clever, the graveyard |
| 09:25.50 | Wobin | in any major city of your race |
| 09:25.53 | clever | Wobin: i visited one and didnt see anything diff |
| 09:25.55 | Wobin | (or dalaran/shatt_ |
| 09:25.56 | clever | near stormwind |
| 09:26.01 | Wobin | are you human? |
| 09:26.07 | clever | ah |
| 09:26.17 | clever | i think i was on my humman then |
| 09:26.27 | clever | humman rogue i think it was |
| 09:26.27 | Wobin | Catrina should be there |
| 09:26.35 | clever | i just saw 2 normal players |
| 09:27.02 | Wobin | arrrgh |
| 09:27.05 | clever | i'm on my humman warlock atm, in iron forge |
| 09:27.11 | Wobin | why does the marionette despawn on zoning? =( |
| 09:27.12 | clever | do you have to be dead to see it? |
| 09:27.20 | Wobin | clever, No, read the above again |
| 09:27.27 | Wobin | "In your race's major city" |
| 09:27.37 | Wobin | if you're human you go to stormwind |
| 09:27.46 | clever | i beleive i was on a humman, and it was a graveyard between goldshire and stormwind |
| 09:27.59 | Wobin | maybe it was the Goldshire graveyard you were in |
| 09:28.14 | clever | cant think of any near stormwind itself |
| 09:28.14 | Wobin | You can always go to Dalaran |
| 09:28.21 | clever | where is dalaran? |
| 09:28.27 | Wobin | um, Northrend |
| 09:28.32 | clever | dont have that package:P |
| 09:28.38 | Wobin | do you have BC? |
| 09:28.49 | clever | just basic WOW |
| 09:29.03 | Wobin | there's a graveyard directly outside of stormwind |
| 09:29.09 | Wobin | you can always kill yourself and find out =) |
| 09:29.14 | clever | :P |
| 09:29.22 | clever | let me visit one and get the cords |
| 09:31.50 | clever | ive read that some things can only be done when dead |
| 09:32.28 | Wobin | not this event |
| 09:32.54 | clever | when can i expect that kind of thing? |
| 09:32.56 | Wobin | you buy a flower and it lets you see the dead to interact |
| 09:33.19 | Wobin | afaik the only quest that requires you to be dead is one in Blackrock Depths |
| 09:33.45 | clever | ahh i see her |
| 09:33.48 | clever | and she does sound dead |
| 09:33.56 | clever | i remember that voice from the horde side:P |
| 09:36.05 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (n=krka@c-177ae155.159-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 09:36.58 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraioc_ (n=tomh@cpc1-oxfd19-2-0-cust805.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 09:39.13 | clever | Wobin: ok, now where would i get some ice cold milk |
| 09:39.30 | Wobin | an inn? |
| 09:39.45 | Wobin | it's your first drink =P |
| 09:39.45 | clever | they just serve normal milk, last i checked |
| 09:39.58 | clever | no, the first drink is refreshing spring water |
| 09:40.06 | Wobin | ok, it's your -second- drink |
| 09:40.09 | clever | milk is one step above, followed by melon juice |
| 09:40.20 | Wobin | regardless |
| 09:40.23 | Wobin | check again =P |
| 09:40.24 | tekkub | ha, wtfc? |
| 09:40.36 | tekkub | some npc mage gnome just sheep'd me and invis'd |
| 09:40.46 | Wobin | You've been Manabonked! |
| 09:40.47 | tekkub | in the dal sewers |
| 09:40.50 | tekkub | yea |
| 09:40.51 | clever | odd, says ice cold milk now |
| 09:40.56 | clever | i dont remember it saying ice |
| 09:40.58 | Wobin | it always has =P |
| 09:41.27 | mikma | tekkub: check your mailbox soon ;) |
| 09:41.53 | clever | now to find some flour |
| 09:50.29 | clever | dang 1k exp |
| 09:50.38 | clever | nearly gave me a new level:P |
| 09:50.41 | tekkub | hrm? |
| 09:50.55 | clever | less then 5% away |
| 09:52.44 | clever | i think i just saw a level 80 dude miss the entire quest |
| 09:53.45 | Mikk | level 80 does not grant brains |
| 09:53.55 | clever | thats obvious:P |
| 09:54.06 | clever | did he even work his way up there |
| 09:54.32 | clever | once you hit 80, i dont think there is must left to do |
| 09:54.45 | clever | just explore the hell out of the entire world |
| 09:54.54 | clever | get every acheivement in the book |
| 09:55.49 | clever | Mikk: is that about right? |
| 09:55.51 | Mikk | there's loads to do |
| 09:55.56 | clever | like? |
| 09:56.12 | clever | pvp? |
| 09:56.18 | Mikk | but it becomes more about gearing up to be able to go to harder instances |
| 09:56.20 | Mikk | not levelling |
| 09:56.50 | clever | wont you get the best posible gear the game allows, shortly after? |
| 09:57.01 | Mikk | define shortly :P |
| 09:57.25 | Mikk | and no, you don't, really |
| 09:57.30 | clever | my miner is making a decent ammount of money, and i can basicaly afford the top gear that venders can give |
| 09:57.33 | clever | for every character |
| 09:57.41 | Mikk | vendor gear is shit compared to instance drops |
| 09:57.48 | Mikk | and i mean utter shit |
| 09:57.55 | clever | yeah, that stuff does sell for alot |
| 09:58.20 | clever | so its basicaly instancing and getting the drops |
| 09:58.57 | Mikk | or gathering materials & money for crafted gear |
| 09:59.03 | Mikk | or getting reputation with factions so you can buy their stuff |
| 09:59.15 | clever | can you craft stuff better then drops in high instances? |
| 09:59.38 | Mikk | each new tier of raid instance tends to introduce patterns for 2-3 gearslots |
| 09:59.44 | Mikk | being equivalent to drops in that raid instance |
| 10:01.14 | clever | which you could then craft yourself |
| 10:01.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Teomyr (i=teo@HSI-KBW-085-216-123-189.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 10:01.39 | clever | and potentialy sell to others |
| 10:01.51 | Mikk | well define yourself. you either need to be in the raid when the pattern drops, or buy it from the AH for 2000-5000 gold |
| 10:01.58 | Mikk | and they don't show up on the AH immediately |
| 10:02.07 | Mikk | (since people want to learn them first) |
| 10:02.16 | clever | yeah |
| 10:02.18 | clever | get it yourself |
| 10:02.19 | clever | learn |
| 10:02.23 | Mikk | yes |
| 10:02.28 | clever | then sell |
| 10:02.35 | Mikk | yes there's definitely people that do that |
| 10:02.42 | Mikk | though the raw material costs tend to be hefty |
| 10:02.49 | clever | and if you get it again, sell the patern itself |
| 10:02.52 | Mikk | it's not just a couple of copper bars if i put it that way |
| 10:03.15 | clever | the graphics on this laptop are shitloads better too |
| 10:03.27 | clever | i can see the entire warsong gulch |
| 10:03.38 | Mikk | either way this is something you'll learn as you go, really |
| 10:03.54 | Mikk | in a nutshell: you spend a lot more time max level than you do levelling |
| 10:04.12 | Mikk | and yeah you get a few days of being disoriented and thinking "Now what?!" when you ding max level |
| 10:04.22 | Mikk | and probably end up going somewhere where you had no idea you weren't prepared for |
| 10:04.32 | Mikk | and most likely laughed at too |
| 10:05.20 | clever | so there is shit out there that an 80 cant handle on his own? :P |
| 10:05.36 | Mikk | there's shit out there that the best geared people on the realm can barely handle in groups of 25 |
| 10:05.46 | clever | lol |
| 10:05.55 | clever | so there is still challenges left in the game |
| 10:05.58 | Mikk | oh yes |
| 10:06.13 | Mikk | and not just about gear either for that matter |
| 10:06.21 | Mikk | you actually have to have reflexes and situational overview |
| 10:06.28 | clever | yeah |
| 10:06.29 | Mikk | in addition to just doing "your job" (tanking, dpsing, healing) |
| 10:07.02 | Mikk | to be quite fair, the requirements on top raiders, mentally, are probably in the neighbourhood of what's required from fighter pilots |
| 10:07.16 | Mikk | in respect to reflexes, concentration, and being able to keep track of multiple things in your head all at once |
| 10:07.50 | Mikk | and on top of that you need to have the patience to be ok with dying 20 times in a night |
| 10:07.55 | Mikk | and going in with a smile to do it all over again |
| 10:08.19 | clever | ive pvp'd with my healer:P |
| 10:08.20 | Mikk | top tier raiding is not for all :P |
| 10:08.24 | clever | i know what its like to die 20 times in a row |
| 10:08.36 | Mikk | well pvp is a bit different |
| 10:08.49 | Mikk | it's not "oops, i'm alone with 10 enemies. now i die." |
| 10:08.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Industrial (n=industri@205.189.72.45) |
| 10:09.00 | clever | i was in WSG trying to kill shit with a char that was designed for healing:P |
| 10:09.01 | Mikk | it's "damnit i did everything right this time. why did the 25th guy have to fuck up and wipe us?" |
| 10:09.17 | Mikk | and the answer is simply everyone fucks up once in a while |
| 10:09.22 | Mikk | and with 25 people there to fuck up |
| 10:09.25 | Mikk | ... yeah do the math |
| 10:09.30 | Industrial | Fisker: i needs you |
| 10:09.32 | clever | i dont see very much coperation in WSG |
| 10:09.42 | clever | just stay with the group and pray they know what to do |
| 10:09.44 | Industrial | clever: premade? |
| 10:09.55 | clever | Industrial: nope, i just didnt know what i was doing when i started |
| 10:10.00 | clever | made a night elf druid:P |
| 10:10.05 | Industrial | 44>_> |
| 10:10.43 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/bshit/sukupolvet.jpg |
| 10:10.48 | clever | if i see somebody my level, doing better then my, then i copy his race/class and see how he is doing so good |
| 10:11.44 | clever | WSG seems to mostly be chance and the skill of the other guys |
| 10:11.59 | clever | as to which way the entire battle goes |
| 10:12.15 | clever | but a hunter helps alot |
| 10:13.00 | Mikk | yeah there isn't much class balance in lower levels anymore |
| 10:13.10 | Mikk | all the new stuff added makes it .... flavour of the levelspan |
| 10:13.33 | clever | ive found that my humman rogue is doing a ton better at the low levels |
| 10:13.45 | clever | i dont have to stop and eat/drink after every battle |
| 10:14.07 | clever | similar with my warlock |
| 10:14.14 | clever | i have a pet to tank for me |
| 10:14.22 | Industrial | Fisker: http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/halloween_rage.jpg |
| 10:14.26 | Industrial | haste: ^ |
| 10:14.32 | Industrial | Fisker: ping |
| 10:15.07 | clever | it seems that WSG is also level grouped |
| 10:15.14 | clever | i only see 10-19 in the game |
| 10:16.14 | clever | which leads me to think i can bring a team of 19's in, and pwn the other side by sheer force:P |
| 10:16.37 | Corrodias | makes me wonder what it's like to play a druid in there at 19 |
| 10:17.10 | clever | my druid was above 20 when i started |
| 10:17.10 | Industrial | Corrodias: no catform |
| 10:17.19 | clever | lower 20's |
| 10:17.30 | Industrial | druid blows -20 imo |
| 10:17.33 | Corrodias | indeed. so bear and healing, probably mostly. |
| 10:17.45 | Industrial | its just a weak warrior with a bit of healing |
| 10:17.48 | clever | and i wasnt using any of the special forms |
| 10:17.53 | clever | tried to fight in my normal form:P |
| 10:17.56 | Industrial | >< |
| 10:18.04 | clever | ive learned more since then |
| 10:18.50 | mikma | cairenn: http://kuvaton.com/bshit/true_horror.png |
| 10:18.56 | clever | the 10 minutes i spend on a rogue taught me about how feral combat on a druid works |
| 10:18.59 | Cairenn | ewww |
| 10:19.19 | Corrodias | yeah, that's most... |
| 10:19.27 | Corrodias | most horrible thing i have... |
| 10:19.30 | Corrodias | what |
| 10:20.26 | clever | i also made a usefull macro for my hunter |
| 10:20.39 | Corrodias | what was i saying? yes, that's most of the druid combat right there |
| 10:20.41 | clever | it makes the pet attack, casts hunters mark, and starts shooting |
| 10:20.43 | clever | all with 1 key |
| 10:20.54 | Corrodias | although they can heal, though the rogue can bandage, so. |
| 10:21.08 | clever | heal can be done several times |
| 10:21.21 | clever | bandages have cooldowns that block all bandaging |
| 10:22.09 | *** join/#wowuidev halgus (n=halgus@remote4.student.chalmers.se) |
| 10:22.57 | clever | Corrodias: what do you think the value of an enchanter is? |
| 10:23.53 | Corrodias | i don't know, i didn't really like crafting in any of its forms |
| 10:24.21 | Fisker | http://i37.tinypic.com/1zflmvb.jpg <- :DDD |
| 10:24.28 | Corrodias | my druid ended up dual herbalist + skinner for most of the game, then switched skinning out for mining when gems became the hot shit |
| 10:24.31 | clever | a bit like inscription, in that you have to tear appart other mats to get your basic stuff |
| 10:24.47 | Corrodias | i'm familiar enough with enchanting, but i hated it as much as the other crafting tradeskills. |
| 10:24.50 | clever | ive got nearly every profession, 2 per alt |
| 10:24.54 | zenzelezz | Fisker: O_o |
| 10:25.05 | clever | what the hell |
| 10:25.06 | Corrodias | good job, fisky |
| 10:25.23 | clever | how did you do that? |
| 10:25.30 | clever | buy it with an alt? |
| 10:25.43 | Fisker | nope |
| 10:25.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@d019021.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 10:25.56 | clever | what kind of idiot would spend such money on milk |
| 10:26.14 | Fisker | Xaph! |
| 10:26.26 | Fisker | i feel so dirty |
| 10:26.29 | clever | which realm? :P |
| 10:26.49 | Fisker | Ravencrest eu |
| 10:26.55 | clever | dont got anything there |
| 10:27.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 10:28.23 | clever | tailoring and leather working seem like usefull skills |
| 10:28.40 | *** join/#wowuidev halgus (n=halgus@remote4.student.chalmers.se) |
| 10:28.40 | clever | and mining /herbs make alot of money |
| 10:30.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 10:31.35 | Corrodias | when i had leatherworking, before BC, it was the most useless thing i had ever done |
| 10:31.59 | clever | skinning gives a small attack bonus |
| 10:32.19 | clever | could be abused to get extra att out of something near its limits |
| 10:33.54 | *** join/#wowuidev yleaf (n=chatzill@116.234.199.26) |
| 10:34.28 | mikma | hmm oh gee, i wonder why this address alerts me? http://www.facebook.com.ujtqwaqk.co.uk/globaldirectory/LoginFacebook.php?ref=5640655618730167509419824959824284007292479817787211951985&email=mikma@reaktio.net |
| 10:35.06 | zenzelezz | mikma: facebook just ran out of subdomains, clearly, so they're borrowing other domains! |
| 10:35.17 | clever | :P |
| 10:36.05 | mikma | zenzelezz: oh ok, login in then |
| 10:36.05 | Corrodias | looks legit to me, login bro :V |
| 10:36.25 | mikma | login' .. ? or something |
| 10:36.39 | mikma | i dunno :P whatever |
| 10:38.56 | *** join/#wowuidev svenadh (n=sven@p57A4A06C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:40.14 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 10:43.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
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| 11:27.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@86-60-155-124-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 11:30.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 11:46.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (n=Cide@h238n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 11:46.49 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 11:49.28 | Cairenn | rofl, amusing joke by this comedian: Single now. Yup, totally single and totally celibate. I would masterbate but my doctor told me to avoid heavy lifting. |
| 11:49.52 | zenzelezz | :-p |
| 11:50.26 | Cairenn | (and to the crowds' groans) "Oh shut up, you just wish you'd thought of it" |
| 11:51.33 | zenzelezz | hehe |
| 11:53.38 | Fisker | sofar i've earned 20g on selling ice cold milk |
| 11:53.42 | Fisker | ;3 |
| 11:54.46 | Industrial | Fisker: you |
| 11:55.02 | Fisker | Industrial: you |
| 11:55.39 | Cruciformer | does anyone by any chance have a spare google voice invite? |
| 11:55.58 | Industrial | Cruciformer: dibs |
| 11:56.15 | Fisker | it's the cancer Cruciformer |
| 11:56.19 | Cruciformer | I am looking for one not giving one away :) |
| 11:56.34 | Cruciformer | wossa cancer? |
| 11:56.36 | Fisker | it's still us only right? |
| 11:56.57 | Cruciformer | yar |
| 11:57.09 | Cruciformer | but I can pretend I am in teh us :P |
| 11:57.38 | Cruciformer | i actually already had a google grand central account when I worked there and I forgot to move it to my public address :P |
| 11:57.40 | Fisker | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:57.57 | Fisker | enjoy international call rates then |
| 11:58.16 | Cruciformer | Fisker: to words: skype in |
| 11:58.21 | Cruciformer | *two |
| 12:02.26 | Fisker | skype is the cancer killing the internet |
| 12:02.38 | Cruciformer | no u r |
| 12:05.32 | Fisker | nope |
| 12:05.39 | Fisker | i am the hero this internet deserves |
| 12:11.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (n=legorol@82-41-49-132.cable.ubr07.sgyl.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 12:11.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
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| 12:52.32 | DWSR | does anyone here know of an already existing solution to integrate a phpBB and Ventrilo? |
| 12:52.59 | DWSR | I'm looking for a way to automatically register a user in Ventrilo's user list when said user activates their account on phpBB. |
| 13:00.49 | Grum | Anyone got any experience with RaF and summon a friend? is the cooldown for both ways or just for the person who summoned? (ea can i summon someone and that someone me right after?) |
| 13:01.24 | DWSR | Just the person who summoned. |
| 13:01.52 | Grum | ok, kinda stuck with having to do my lvl10 quests while the area i am in doesnt have my class =D |
| 13:02.08 | Grum | but this way i can just summon my raf-er with me |
| 13:03.01 | Fisker | slaps DWSR around a bit with a large trout |
| 13:04.54 | Zyn | darp |
| 13:05.59 | Grum | huh! there is no lvl10 paladin quest? |
| 13:07.40 | DWSR | no |
| 13:07.42 | DWSR | Used to be rez. |
| 13:07.44 | DWSR | Now you get it trained. |
| 13:08.16 | Grum | hmm apparently there still is a lvl12 chain? |
| 13:08.27 | DWSR | no idea |
| 13:08.41 | Grum | http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=10366 |
| 13:08.45 | Ginji | Gief more Ravenholdt! |
| 13:09.28 | Grum | and you learn how to rez at the end .. weird :D |
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| 14:05.56 | Sarkp | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEUzITfuJnk&feature=sub |
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| 14:14.02 | zenzelezz | tickles Lopeppeppy |
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| 14:14.19 | Lopeppeppy | Oh hi! Did everyone survive their halloweeeeenings? |
| 14:14.29 | zenzelezz | yup |
| 14:20.06 | Wobin | >< I have to stop watching Castle episodes and go to bed |
| 14:20.33 | Lopeppeppy | What's Castle? |
| 14:20.40 | Wobin | :O |
| 14:20.55 | zenzelezz | some TV series |
| 14:20.58 | Wobin | http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1219024/ |
| 14:21.06 | Wobin | it has some awesome writing |
| 14:21.29 | zenzelezz | I saw the commercials for the first episode and didn't bother |
| 14:21.32 | Wobin | very entertaining |
| 14:21.33 | zenzelezz | don't like the guy |
| 14:21.44 | Lopeppeppy | Captain Tightpants. |
| 14:21.47 | Wobin | aye |
| 14:22.05 | Wobin | to be honest, Nathan Fillion doesn't make the show |
| 14:22.08 | Wobin | the rest of the cast do |
| 14:22.44 | Wobin | I suggest you grab the first ep, and at least give it a go |
| 14:23.55 | Lopeppeppy | sadly, only last 5 episodes on hulu, so it's not for me. |
| 14:24.05 | Lopeppeppy | Besides, he looks damn stupid with a moustache. |
| 14:25.44 | Wobin | moustache? |
| 14:26.40 | Wobin | who has a moustache? |
| 14:27.58 | Wobin | I'm not sure I'm watching the same show =P |
| 14:28.01 | Lopeppeppy | In some of the pictures of episodes this season, Captain Tightpants has a moustache growing in up there. It looks stupid. |
| 14:28.28 | Wobin | I'm... fairly sure he's pretty cleanshaven 98% of the time |
| 14:29.19 | Wobin | oh |
| 14:29.24 | Wobin | he's in halloween costume |
| 14:30.33 | Wobin | You have to give the show cred. They dress Nathan Fillion up as a "Space Cowboy" for halloween |
| 14:31.10 | mikma | lal, green proto-drak |
| 14:31.52 | Wobin | in fact, a lot of the cast dressed up as previous roles =P |
| 14:32.08 | Wobin | grats Mik |
| 14:35.25 | mikma | thanks wob |
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| 15:30.57 | Bruners | haste: våken ? |
| 15:32.10 | haste | Bruners: y |
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| 15:35.49 | Bruners | haste: toc5 hc etc |
| 15:40.07 | Fisker | slaps Bruners around a bit with a large trout |
| 15:40.09 | Fisker | slaps haste around a bit with a large trout |
| 15:40.13 | Fisker | play on ravencrest |
| 15:40.14 | Fisker | jerks |
| 15:49.45 | Bruners | Fisker: this is where you are wrong, you should be playing on grim batol |
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| 18:24.32 | cog|away | doesn't understand why graphics drivers don't notify of updates |
| 18:24.39 | Fisker | slaps cog|away around a bit with a large trout |
| 18:24.44 | cog|away | is 4 versions behind |
| 18:25.24 | ccox | cog|away: because then they'd have to nag you every 16 hours |
| 18:25.53 | ZorbaGama | doesn't understand why Microsoft has not made a noncrappy free-for-all-registration centralized update system |
| 18:26.00 | ccox | cog|away: and people might catch on to just how many bugs they have, and how often they have to put out updates |
| 18:26.02 | Fisker | naw ccox |
| 18:26.13 | zenzelezz | actually, I'd say it's because usually you don't need to update |
| 18:26.23 | Fisker | they do have with Windows 7 ZorbaGama |
| 18:26.34 | zenzelezz | driver updates for video cards seem to more often than not just be fixes for specific games |
| 18:26.53 | cog|away | i'm actually just updating as a diagnostic... i keep getting weird random crashes and i figure i'd try driver updates before anything more intensive |
| 18:26.57 | ZorbaGama | fisker, ah, really? does it require a legal OS/money from developers/anything else? |
| 18:27.01 | ccox | these days they're also fixes for video and 3D applications |
| 18:27.15 | Fisker | idk ZorbaGama |
| 18:27.18 | ccox | and with more apps and the OS using the GPU for compositing.... |
| 18:27.27 | Fisker | it's kinda like how it's been with Windows XP |
| 18:27.29 | Fisker | and up |
| 18:27.36 | Dagmar | cog's approach is the correct one |
| 18:27.39 | Fisker | But it's better |
| 18:27.49 | ZorbaGama | the winxp one never handled user applications in any useful sense, though |
| 18:27.58 | Fisker | anyways ZorbaGama Consoles > PC |
| 18:28.30 | Dagmar | Consoles == nearsightedness |
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| 18:29.06 | ccox | in more ways than one... |
| 18:29.16 | Dagmar | I am sick to death of seeing console games where you go "outside" and for no reason whatsoever, with clear skies and sunny weather, you can only see about 100 yards. |
| 18:29.37 | ZorbaGama | I think that just means you're playing crummy console games |
| 18:29.46 | Dagmar | I think that's pretty much *all* console games |
| 18:29.50 | cog|away | ZorbaGama: not really |
| 18:29.51 | zenzelezz | yup |
| 18:29.58 | cog|away | consoles have really low ram compared to desktops |
| 18:30.02 | Dagmar | They _always_ put crap settings in for view distance because the things are so RAM-limited |
| 18:30.10 | Dagmar | ...not to mention GPU-limited |
| 18:30.25 | ZorbaGama | http://gamerzines.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/brutal-legend-screenshot-8_656x3693.jpg not for, like, half a decade |
| 18:30.57 | ZorbaGama | modern console systems have half a gig of RAM and the GPU tends to be equal to that of a generic games-capable PC. as well as more controllable. :P |
| 18:31.12 | Dagmar | "games-capable" |
| 18:31.29 | Dagmar | My video card costs less than $150 to buy now, and it can whup an XBox |
| 18:31.53 | cog|away | ZorbaGama: half a gig is pitiful imo... |
| 18:32.03 | Dagmar | Try something like GTA IV on the PC, PS3, and XBox all side by side |
| 18:32.05 | Lopeppeppy | cog, sometimes driver *rollbacks* are the solution... |
| 18:32.29 | cog|away | Lopeppeppy: yeah, but i've been running the same driver since early august when 7 wasn't even "out" yet... |
| 18:32.29 | ZorbaGama | cog, very few games eat more than a gig still. and that's with PC game developers usually being ruiniously inefficient with RAM. |
| 18:32.51 | cog|away | right, but lots of them eat more than half a gig ;) |
| 18:33.10 | Dagmar | ZorbaGama: ...and yet, when they DO need more than 512Mb of RAM, it's for something pretty damn important, which the consoles subsequently have to cut corners like mad on. |
| 18:33.29 | Dagmar | Oblivion used to crush PCs. |
| 18:33.32 | ZorbaGama | dagmar, *shrug* if it's designed for the PC and then ported to console, yes, it tends to fall over pretty bad |
| 18:33.34 | Dagmar | Now it just makes consoles look bad. |
| 18:33.50 | ZorbaGama | honestly using Oblivion as an example of why PCs are better is, IMHO, saying "look, pcs can run crappy games better than consoles can" |
| 18:34.01 | Dagmar | No, it's not. |
| 18:34.06 | Dagmar | I've been rather specific about my complaint. |
| 18:34.20 | Dagmar | Consoles can't do "outside" for shit compared to PCs, because they are underpowered for the task |
| 18:34.31 | ZorbaGama | and I disagree. Have you played Brutal Legend? |
| 18:34.40 | ZorbaGama | The vast majority is outside, and consoles handle it just fine. |
| 18:35.08 | ZorbaGama | alternatively, Borderlands. |
| 18:35.40 | cog|away | haven't played any of those but i'm betting they either made trade-offs in other areas or had some breakthrough in technology that would be exploitable on PCs too |
| 18:35.57 | ZorbaGama | There are certainly ways of developing games such that they fail badly on consoles, but that isn't a statement that they *can't do it*, it's just a statement that a lot of game developers suck. And *most* of the games that want to do "outdoors" heavily tend to start on PCs, just due to the nature of the different markets |
| 18:35.57 | cog|away | s/tech/software tech/ |
| 18:36.09 | ZorbaGama | cog, I'm not saying that consoles are somehow far faster than PCs |
| 18:36.11 | A-KO | Regardless of what you think about PC vs. console gaming, console gaming makes more $--so it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, we are at the mercy of what works on the current generation of consoles. |
| 18:36.17 | ZorbaGama | I'm saying that the difference between the two is, at this point, rather irrelevant |
| 18:36.32 | A-KO | they can't make a game that exploits PC hardware if it won't work on a console |
| 18:36.33 | Dagmar | So cite a game that has view distance outdoors greater than about 100 yards that isn't pulling a FF and just showing us the inside of a painted bowl |
| 18:36.40 | ZorbaGama | high-end PCs are capable of better graphics than consoles. low-end PCs are capable of worse graphics than consoles. |
| 18:36.50 | ZorbaGama | dagmar, so, uh, Brutal Legend? I think I've mentioned that once or twice |
| 18:36.51 | ZorbaGama | I don't know |
| 18:36.51 | cog|away | ZorbaGama: and i'm saying it's only irrelevant if the tradeoffs aren't meaningful *to you* |
| 18:36.52 | ZorbaGama | maybe I didn't |
| 18:36.56 | ZorbaGama | you could scroll up and check |
| 18:36.58 | Dagmar | ...and yet, we tend to get shafted as PC users because it makes consoles look bad if we don't |
| 18:37.10 | Dagmar | You showed a screenshot of Brutal Legend |
| 18:37.13 | A-KO | Dagmar: Even games that exploit PCs to the fullest don't get $, see: Crysis. |
| 18:37.23 | A-KO | So any arguments that they need to make games that push PCs and won't run on consoles is irrelevant |
| 18:37.23 | cog|away | as someone who loves to get games running with full blast (or better) settings at > HD resolution, consoles get a thumbs down ;) |
| 18:37.24 | A-KO | it was proven to fail |
| 18:37.25 | Dagmar | ...and the furthest thing away in that screenshot looked like thirty feet |
| 18:37.26 | A-KO | 100% |
| 18:37.28 | ZorbaGama | well, go play the game if you like. It's got plenty of view distance. |
| 18:37.43 | A-KO | cog|away: until you play something that actually uses PC hardware, then it falls apart. |
| 18:37.47 | ZorbaGama | oy, I'll go find a video then if you really insist |
| 18:37.50 | Dagmar | It doesn't actually have anything going on farther than thirty feet |
| 18:38.02 | Lopeppeppy | Apples and oranges. |
| 18:38.02 | Dagmar | So, again, the inside of a painted bowl doesn't accomplish anytyhing |
| 18:38.32 | cog|away | Lopeppeppy: exactly :) I likes me some oranges |
| 18:38.36 | A-KO | gaming is just not economical on the PC anymore tbh |
| 18:38.40 | ZorbaGama | okay, youtube is down right now :P |
| 18:38.45 | Dagmar | A-KO: False |
| 18:39.06 | A-KO | you spend $$$$ on hardware and find that the games barely make use of it. "Hey look, we made an optimization that renders this pass faster--but as far as any discernable different in visual quality, you won't see it." |
| 18:39.13 | Lopeppeppy | I like both, cogwheel, but I wouldn't attempt to substitute them willy-nilly when baking. Results would be... omg, different!!!!! |
| 18:39.25 | ZorbaGama | ah, there we go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6fH45A_xas |
| 18:39.36 | Shirik | huggles Lopeppeppy |
| 18:39.36 | A-KO | games are being developed with 1920x1080 resolution in mind, many monitors these days are coming with that ratio |
| 18:39.41 | theorbtwo | The problem with Crysis isn't that it drove machines to the edge of the performace envelope, the problem is that it drove them well past it -- they requirements themselved out of a market. |
| 18:39.53 | A-KO | theorbtwo: negative, the requirements were at the top of the market |
| 18:39.57 | Dagmar | theorbtwo: Runs great on what I have now tho |
| 18:39.58 | A-KO | what the problem was |
| 18:40.07 | A-KO | people wanted to run it at above what they were used to |
| 18:40.21 | cog|away | wonders why he can't connect to youtube |
| 18:40.23 | ZorbaGama | and, honestly, there are big things that I care about *much* more than sheer pixel count. There's a lot of good games on both systems. |
| 18:40.34 | ZorbaGama | cog, I was just having trouble also, they may be having flaky systems right now |
| 18:40.37 | theorbtwo | A-KO: Yeah, which means that for everybody who didn't have a machine that was brand new, and top-of-the-line, couldn't run it. |
| 18:40.47 | Dagmar | theorbtwo: God that's just awful |
| 18:40.57 | cog|away | "YouTube is down for maintenance and will be back shortly." |
| 18:40.58 | Dagmar | Imagine, not being able to play a buggy game on release day |
| 18:41.06 | A-KO | theorbtwo: which goes back to my point. People here are arguing that PCs put out better graphics than consoles--and right now, this is true, but you need to have top-of-the-line (DX 11 cards) to do it. |
| 18:41.08 | A-KO | So it's a moot point |
| 18:41.18 | Dagmar | Actually no |
| 18:41.20 | A-KO | I bought Crysis for the simple fact that I miss those days of gaming |
| 18:41.21 | Dagmar | You are deda wrong. |
| 18:41.24 | Sarkp | cog|away: i was just about to post that |
| 18:41.25 | Dagmar | s/deda/dead/; |
| 18:41.30 | ZorbaGama | I mean, honestly, the mere fact that Brutal Legend exists on consoles and not PCs indicates that PC is not strictly better than console :P |
| 18:41.34 | Dagmar | You do *not* need "top of the line" hardware to beat a console on graphics |
| 18:42.21 | ZorbaGama | how many people prefer PSP games over DS games? graphics, oh man, they are so far away from being "everything" that it is hilarious |
| 18:42.29 | Dagmar | There's games for the PSP? |
| 18:42.41 | ZorbaGama | yeah, and some of them are pretty good |
| 18:42.53 | A-KO | I've got my pc, 360, and wii. the PC game market has really been pretty shit over the years, nothing has come out to push the envelope like Crysis did. |
| 18:42.56 | Dagmar | How many did they release this year that weren't crappy ports? 8? |
| 18:42.59 | ZorbaGama | Patapon, for example. Locoroco. The God of War and Ratchet and Clank games. |
| 18:43.01 | A-KO | It's obvious seeing people who didn't play FPS games back in the day |
| 18:43.03 | ZorbaGama | oh, I have no idea about this year |
| 18:43.05 | theorbtwo | The biggest difference, really, is about control and circumstance. |
| 18:43.08 | ZorbaGama | the PSP is basically a dead platform at this point |
| 18:43.08 | A-KO | try playing Duke Nukem 3D on a 486 DX66 |
| 18:43.10 | Lopeppeppy | How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll tootsie pop? |
| 18:43.12 | ZorbaGama | but there's still good games on it |
| 18:43.14 | Lopeppeppy | The world may never know. |
| 18:43.22 | A-KO | then you can tell me about it :P |
| 18:43.26 | theorbtwo | Try playing WoW on a console, with a console controller. |
| 18:43.35 | Dagmar | ZorbaGama: I like the phrase "pocket vending machine" better, since their newest version game out |
| 18:43.54 | ZorbaGama | man I played Doom on my 386. it is a good thing that we are past those days of gaming. |
| 18:43.56 | A-KO | theorbtwo: controllers mean next ot nothing, I primarily use a 360 controller on games on my PC short of the ones that don't work well with it. (but I use it for Ghostbusters, most 3rd person games, Emulators, and other random games) |
| 18:44.02 | ZorbaGama | hell I played Wolfenstein on a 386. |
| 18:44.03 | Dagmar | You can now "licence" games for it, which are tied to your PSN account |
| 18:44.05 | A-KO | ZorbaGama: I don't think so :P I miss the days of that |
| 18:44.12 | Dagmar | ...which means you can't resell those games or trade them. |
| 18:44.15 | A-KO | ZorbaGama: hit - a bunch of times to make the game even playable :P |
| 18:44.34 | theorbtwo | I need a keyboard, and I need to have a screen close enough that I can read the text. |
| 18:44.46 | A-KO | ZorbaGama: The people that complained about Crysis obviously had never played Quake on a Pentium 90, or Doom on a 386, or Duke on a 486 |
| 18:45.00 | theorbtwo | A-KO: Yeah. For many types of games, a console controller is good. For some, it's not. |
| 18:45.00 | ZorbaGama | a-ko, I don't. Games have gotten objectively better. A lot of those games are only good because they were new. |
| 18:45.11 | ZorbaGama | The mere fact that we've gone through bad framerates doesn't mean that they're acceptable now |
| 18:45.23 | theorbtwo | I'm not saying that all games are better when you've got a keyboard, just that some are. |
| 18:45.33 | Thunder_Child | A-KO, but it didnt take 3 years to make a computer that could run Doom at max res |
| 18:45.51 | A-KO | ZorbaGama: what I mean is, those games pushed the limits of the hardware available to them. Nowadays, games are years behind the hardware. Hardware can come out and you won't see anything come close to using it effectively for a while, and I don't think any game came out that really used DX10 effectively. |
| 18:46.08 | ZorbaGama | a-ko, sure, but there's a good reason for that - there's no *reason* to push the hardware anymore |
| 18:46.14 | theorbtwo | (And yeah, I could get a really freaking huge TV, and a keyboard for my console. I'd then have something almost as good as a PC for running out of the box WoW, but I don't play WoW out of the box, I play it with a half-ton of addons.) |
| 18:46.23 | ZorbaGama | it's expensive and we haven't seen a new hardware-intensive important-to-gameplay gimmick since Portal |
| 18:46.25 | A-KO | ZorbaGama: sure there is, I'm not playing games that look like RL yet. |
| 18:46.32 | A-KO | Portal was hardware intensive? |
| 18:46.36 | ZorbaGama | You're playing games that are the nearest thing to it. |
| 18:46.38 | Lopeppeppy | Find me some shit that plays Dungeon Keeper again, and I'll be happy. |
| 18:46.39 | A-KO | .....wut? |
| 18:46.43 | Thunder_Child | portal was hardware intensive? |
| 18:46.53 | ZorbaGama | The "portal" code took some work to get working efficiently. It couldn't have been done on really low-end systems. But honestly that's also my point |
| 18:46.54 | Thunder_Child | Lopeppeppy, VM an old os |
| 18:47.00 | ZorbaGama | even Portal isn't considered hardware-intensive |
| 18:47.04 | theorbtwo | Not terribly, but somewhat. |
| 18:47.04 | Lopeppeppy | Bless you, TC |
| 18:47.06 | ZorbaGama | hardware is just unnecessary for gameplay at this point. |
| 18:47.27 | Thunder_Child | Lopeppeppy, that was a fun game |
| 18:47.30 | theorbtwo | I wouldn't say that, ZorbaGama. I'd say that graphics hardware isn't neccessary to gameplay. |
| 18:47.32 | Thunder_Child | never did beat it however |
| 18:47.35 | ZorbaGama | it makes graphics look better and that is it. You couldn't make Doom on a 286, you couldn't make duke3d on a 386, you couldn't make Quake on a 486 |
| 18:47.44 | A-KO | actually quake ran on a 486 :P |
| 18:47.46 | A-KO | sucked |
| 18:47.47 | A-KO | but it ran |
| 18:47.50 | ZorbaGama | but the fact is that pretty much every game for the last five years could have been made on five-year-old hardware. |
| 18:47.56 | A-KO | (see: AMD 5x86 133, which was really a slightly modified 486) |
| 18:48.13 | ZorbaGama | yeah, one of my friends ran it on that, but my point still stands ;) each of those games took a lot more hardware but got actual gameplay improvements out of it |
| 18:48.26 | ZorbaGama | the *vast* majority of modern games could be the *exact same game* on lower-end hardware. |
| 18:48.31 | theorbtwo | Input hardware, which is the big difference between consoles and PCs, is important for many types of games. So is having an open system. |
| 18:48.42 | A-KO | theorbtwo: lol, "open system" means nothing, flat out |
| 18:48.47 | A-KO | at the end of the day, open systems make 0 money. |
| 18:48.52 | ZorbaGama | we're no longer pushing hardware for the sake of gameplay, we're only pushing it for the sake of graphics. and at this point graphics are just not that important. |
| 18:48.58 | ZorbaGama | they're Good Enough. |
| 18:49.13 | A-KO | ZorbaGama: eh, we still don't have physics to the point of perfection though--and that's a computational and graphical thing. |
| 18:49.15 | theorbtwo | A-KO: Open system as in the users have the sort of computer they can install shit on without blessing from the mfgr. |
| 18:49.21 | theorbtwo | Addons. |
| 18:49.33 | ZorbaGama | a-ko, we also don't have any ideas for games where physics is anything more than a special effect :P |
| 18:49.42 | theorbtwo | You couldn't make WoW be a good game on a console. |
| 18:49.45 | A-KO | ZorbaGama: yes, but that could change--if they wanted to lose compatibility with older hardware |
| 18:50.00 | ZorbaGama | a-ko, no, I disagree. I think there's no evidence that it will change. |
| 18:50.13 | ZorbaGama | if it was going to change, it already would have. Someone would have made a game that requires high-end hardware for a good reason. |
| 18:50.26 | ZorbaGama | Nobody is doing that, not because it's "expensive", but because nobody has a good reason to do it. |
| 18:50.32 | theorbtwo | Shooters? Hell yes. A console with worse graphics will beat a PC with better ones on a shooter. There's a *reason* you use a 360 controller to play them. |
| 18:50.41 | A-KO | ZorbaGama: I'm not saying there's evidence it would change, I'm simply stating that one of the only reasons it's nothing more than a special effect and not part of core gameplay is because the hardware required to then play the game would be specialized, and it wouldn't get the return on investment it put to work on that type of design. |
| 18:50.42 | Lopeppeppy | Or just because people are stupid enough to keep buying "new and better" forever. |
| 18:50.52 | ZorbaGama | a-ko, no, I disagree with that also |
| 18:50.59 | ZorbaGama | we have games that function with physics. They don't work very well. |
| 18:51.03 | Thunder_Child | theorbtwo, you mean an fps? |
| 18:51.09 | theorbtwo | Thunder_Child: Yes. |
| 18:51.15 | ZorbaGama | It turns out that putting physics in a game doesn't work great. They're too unpredictable to use for actual gameplay mechanics. |
| 18:51.33 | ZorbaGama | If you use a strict enough subset that *are* predictable, you end up limiting yourself to physics that are easily computable even today. |
| 18:51.33 | Thunder_Child | theorbtwo, hell no, a mouse keyboard will always giver you better controll than a controller |
| 18:51.34 | A-KO | what games that have a functional part of its gameplay being physics in nature? What game has even tried other than simple cell-phone type games? |
| 18:51.48 | Thunder_Child | give* |
| 18:51.48 | ZorbaGama | Many games have tried. Trespasser tried heavily, and failed |
| 18:51.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 18:51.56 | ZorbaGama | the Half-Life series does its absolute best |
| 18:52.04 | theorbtwo | ZorbaGama: There's some nice use of physics in the HL 2 series. |
| 18:52.16 | A-KO | but nothing on the scale of "here's a wall, let me blow it up with a tank" |
| 18:52.34 | ZorbaGama | theorb, well, think about it more closely. how often does a subtle use of physics become a real gameplay mechanic? there's a few "put things in a box" puzzles, but that's it |
| 18:52.38 | ZorbaGama | a-ko, that's done all the time |
| 18:52.40 | A-KO | nothing has incorporated that kind of style into the game yet. |
| 18:52.43 | A-KO | no it's not |
| 18:52.45 | ZorbaGama | there's a wall, you blow it up with a tank, you have wall bits on the ground. |
| 18:52.56 | theorbtwo | Thunder_Child: Yeah, but big screen, in a couch, the raw physicality. |
| 18:52.58 | kd3 | but what if that's not an explicit objective? |
| 18:52.59 | ZorbaGama | Making the individual bricks fly around realistically is nothing more than special effects. That's what I'm saying - it's not a gameplay mechanic |
| 18:53.00 | ZorbaGama | it's just SFX |
| 18:53.06 | A-KO | that's not been something found in any major FPS |
| 18:53.11 | A-KO | except Crysis really |
| 18:53.11 | ZorbaGama | we've had destroyable walls since the Nintendo days :P |
| 18:53.12 | Dagmar | Just don't ever expect to realistically shell a building on a console. |
| 18:53.15 | Dagmar | Too far away |
| 18:53.16 | kd3 | say... "there's a wall here. what would happen if I, say, bluew the living crap out of it?" |
| 18:53.23 | kd3 | s/bluew/blew/ |
| 18:53.24 | A-KO | yes kd3 is getting my point |
| 18:53.30 | theorbtwo | A keyboard and a mouse will give you better control, but I'm not convinced it's more fun. |
| 18:53.46 | ZorbaGama | kd3, I can't remeber the name of it offhand, but there's an old first-person shooter that did that |
| 18:53.51 | A-KO | if the destructable wall serves no purpose in the game's objective system, except that it's there. |
| 18:53.56 | ZorbaGama | Red Faction, that was it |
| 18:53.57 | nevcairiel | ZorbaGama: red faction! |
| 18:53.58 | A-KO | Red Faction tried it but it still was limited. |
| 18:53.59 | ZorbaGama | you could blow lots of stuff up |
| 18:54.00 | nevcairiel | bah, too slow :) |
| 18:54.16 | ZorbaGama | so, red faction: released in 2001 |
| 18:54.19 | A-KO | negative :P it was still very limited. They had deformable walls, but only in certain spots, it was controlled. |
| 18:54.25 | A-KO | It wasn't free form |
| 18:54.28 | ZorbaGama | you want to guess why we haven't seen hugely improved versions? it's because there's no interesting gameplay there. |
| 18:54.29 | theorbtwo | Eh, there's at the very least a nice puzzle where you have to weigh down a bridge segment with dead cars. |
| 18:54.33 | nevcairiel | you could blow up alot |
| 18:54.36 | Dagmar | Invisible hamster tunnels |
| 18:54.43 | ZorbaGama | you're saying "blow the wall up", but what then? what makes that interesting, besides the ability to blow walls up? |
| 18:54.52 | nevcairiel | isnt that enough? |
| 18:54.54 | nevcairiel | wins me over! |
| 18:54.59 | theorbtwo | For a little while. |
| 18:55.02 | Dagmar | Yeah someone's missing the point of war games. |
| 18:55.02 | A-KO | I'm talking--in something like BF2, with buildings--and someone gets an uber tank, and blows them up--preventing the other team from getting snipers, etc. Making this a core part of gameplay rather than something specific. |
| 18:55.06 | ZorbaGama | if anything, it makes gameplay *harder* - every mission turns into "instead of going through the door, blow the wall up", which turns out to be incredibly boring. |
| 18:55.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@a91-152-226-9.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:55.12 | Dagmar | They're practically all _about_ blowing shti up |
| 18:55.12 | A-KO | ZorbaGama: You're not thinking outside of the box here |
| 18:55.14 | theorbtwo | After that, one wall exploding is much like another. |
| 18:55.19 | kd3 | remember when halo originally came out? driving around in the warthog could've been a game all on its own |
| 18:55.29 | nevcairiel | ZorbaGama: of course you have to limit explosives |
| 18:55.32 | A-KO | ZorbaGama: and is there anything wrong with that style of play if it's possible? What if you limited it |
| 18:55.33 | kd3 | still remembers some of the halo physics tricks |
| 18:55.40 | A-KO | yes, nevcairiel is correct :P |
| 18:55.41 | nevcairiel | but it would be nice to at least being able to if i wanted |
| 18:55.42 | ZorbaGama | a-ko, no, I'm seeing the serious issues involved in this |
| 18:55.48 | ZorbaGama | so, I mean, here's what we have |
| 18:55.48 | A-KO | instead of limtiing the walls you can blow up, you limit the explosives you have to do it. |
| 18:55.50 | Vilkku | goooooooooooooooooood evening |
| 18:55.55 | A-KO | this way, you can choose ANY wall to blow up |
| 18:55.57 | ZorbaGama | First, we add the ability to blow up walls. |
| 18:55.58 | A-KO | you just can't blow them all up |
| 18:56.03 | ZorbaGama | Then, that's not enough, because it's not realistic |
| 18:56.10 | ZorbaGama | so we add the ability to blow up *all walls* through our fancy physics engine |
| 18:56.16 | ZorbaGama | then we *limit that* so you can't blow up everything again |
| 18:56.20 | Shirik | Do you think if I sent NCSoft support an nmap report they would appreciate it? :/ |
| 18:56.23 | A-KO | why would you limit it? |
| 18:56.28 | ZorbaGama | why did we do that in the first place? :P |
| 18:56.30 | A-KO | Shirik: probably not :P |
| 18:56.33 | Dagmar | Shirik: That depends |
| 18:56.38 | theorbtwo | The problem with letting you blow up any wall is that you can quickly leave the area that the level designers built. |
| 18:56.40 | Shirik | It's the only way I can convince them that they're blocking my computer |
| 18:56.46 | Vilkku | does anyone a) use ClassTimer (http://www.wowace.com/addons/classtimer/) or b) know an alternative - I want the time remaining to be on the left side, the icon to be on the right side and the bar to deplete |
| 18:56.50 | Shirik | One box says port 7777 is open, one says 7777 is filtered |
| 18:56.50 | Dagmar | Shirik: ...are you scanning one of the websites run by goldfarmers they're not in bed with? |
| 18:57.04 | theorbtwo | There's little that pisses me off more then hitting the invisible walls in a game. |
| 18:57.05 | ZorbaGama | a-ko, because of what theorbtwo just said. Because it produces instant stalemates and instant broken-gameplay-mechanics in multiplayer. |
| 18:57.14 | Shirik | and their support is just saying things like "oh it must be your router!!11one" |
| 18:57.20 | ZorbaGama | Allowing you to destroy *everything* just flat-out does not work. It's been tried, it fails. |
| 18:57.36 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 18:57.38 | Dagmar | It worked for me in Auto Assault |
| 18:57.51 | Shirik | auto assault? |
| 18:57.58 | Shirik | Was that that game that like was released unfinished? |
| 18:57.59 | Dagmar | ...although I really wanted a war vehicle with a giant vacuum cleaner attachment on the front after a little bit |
| 18:58.02 | ZorbaGama | there's a reason auto assault was one of the least successful MMORPGs ever made :P |
| 18:58.03 | A-KO | ZorbaGama: not if you built the gameplay around that. Again, not thinking outside of the box here. You're assuming that the walls have to be the limit, or that they're really needed. I say it's not. Particularly if you made it part of the strategy of the game. |
| 18:58.21 | Dagmar | Shirik: That was the post-apocalyptic wasteland genocide simulator Jack Thompson should have gone after |
| 18:58.29 | ZorbaGama | a-ko, I strongly suspect that what you are suggesting would make for a terrible game. I don't believe you can make a good game around it, and if you did, I don't believe physics would be an important part of it. |
| 18:58.42 | Vilkku | ~seen Stanzilla |
| 18:58.44 | purl | stanzilla is currently on #wowuidev (2d 20h 47m 20s) #arl (2d 20h 47m 20s) #wowace (2d 20h 47m 20s) #curseforge (2d 20h 47m 20s). Has said a total of 33 messages. Is idling for 3h 28m 47s, last said: 'its just bullshit'. |
| 18:58.45 | ZorbaGama | However, without an example of the exact gameplay you're talking about, it's hard to demonstrate flaws in it. |
| 18:59.02 | Dagmar | They gave you a souped up car with armor plating, let you mount as many guns as you want on it (including flamethrowers) and then largely turned you loose on a relatively unarmed populace living in corrugated metal shacks. |
| 18:59.22 | Stanzilla | hides |
| 18:59.31 | Vilkku | yay Stanzilla \o/ |
| 18:59.38 | Shirik | do you think my argument is justified though? |
| 18:59.40 | cog|away | Dagmar: he probably hopes the world will end up like that after armageddon |
| 18:59.48 | Shirik | I am unable to tunnel SSH through my box for the game, but it works for another service |
| 18:59.49 | ZorbaGama | honestly I will take that as a perfect example of the guiding rule of game design: gamers have absolutely no idea what they actually want to do |
| 18:59.56 | Dagmar | cog|away: If it does, I'm ready. :) |
| 18:59.59 | Shirik | my box says 7777 is filtered when scanned by nmap, my computer says 7777 is open |
| 19:00.07 | Shirik | thus my box must be blocked somehow |
| 19:00.09 | ZorbaGama | there are few ways to more efficiently crappify a game than to add everything your users want :P |
| 19:00.16 | Dagmar | Shirik: what "box" are you talking about |
| 19:00.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneu^ (n=WiN@pneumatus.plus.com) |
| 19:00.24 | Shirik | my linux server |
| 19:00.35 | ZorbaGama | pretty much everyone said "oh man, a game where you drive a car around and blow up tons of stuff, that sounds totally awesome", but in reality it turned out to be terrible. |
| 19:00.37 | Shirik | Just trying to tunnel the game through it through ssh |
| 19:00.51 | Dagmar | Okay so you're running nmap against your Windows machine from your Linux box with only a switch in between them? |
| 19:00.58 | Shirik | no |
| 19:01.02 | Shirik | I'm using nmap against their game server |
| 19:01.02 | batrick | Shirik: are you scanning localhost |
| 19:01.06 | Shirik | game runs on port 7777 |
| 19:01.13 | Dagmar | So? |
| 19:01.18 | Shirik | so I ran nmap -p7777 -sS -PN |
| 19:01.21 | Dagmar | You're *sure* it uses ONLY that port? |
| 19:01.23 | Shirik | on my computer it says 7777 is open |
| 19:01.38 | Shirik | yes, in fact they told me if I want to proxy something, I can only forward data through that port |
| 19:01.46 | Dagmar | Okay, so TCP or UDP? |
| 19:01.52 | A-KO | eh, ZorbaGama, I say it can be done--and I say it can be a part of the gameplay design. The fact that I haven't hashed it out entirely in my head right this moment doesn't mean it couldn't be done :P I would imagine you can get something similar to the gameplay style I'm thinking, for example, the closest to it right now is more or less a capture and hold-type situation. So while the gameplay style can be done without having destructible walls/whatever else, |
| 19:02.00 | zenzelezz | UDP over TCP! |
| 19:02.09 | Shirik | Also, as long as the proxy service limits the the data they proxy to only TCP port 7777 you will still be able to connect and play through them. That way your login would still come direct from your PC, but game traffic would be proxied through the service. |
| 19:02.10 | Shirik | ^ |
| 19:02.15 | ZorbaGama | your line may have truncated there, it ended at "without having destructible walls/whatever else" |
| 19:02.19 | Shirik | from their support |
| 19:02.22 | Dagmar | Shirik: Your syn scan is a littel pointelss if it uses UDP |
| 19:02.25 | A-KO | it wouldn't be as freeform. Capture and hold is usually very specific, and in my case, you would have more freedom to use your resources more wisely, opening up a variety of gameplay options. |
| 19:02.35 | ZorbaGama | ah, there we go :) |
| 19:02.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneu^ (n=WiN@pneumatus.plus.com) |
| 19:02.48 | ZorbaGama | I'd be interested in seeing a try of it. I am strongly, strongly skeptical, though. |
| 19:02.55 | Shirik | So my computer, when I run nmap it says 7777 is open |
| 19:03.03 | Shirik | when I run nmap from my server on their server, it says 7777 is filtered |
| 19:03.06 | batrick | what command are you using for that Shirik |
| 19:03.08 | Shirik | therefore they are blocking my server, yes? |
| 19:03.10 | batrick | to determine it's open |
| 19:03.16 | Shirik | nmap -sS -p7777 -PN |
| 19:03.20 | Shirik | <host> |
| 19:03.28 | batrick | and the targetname? localhost or your address? |
| 19:03.33 | Dagmar | pastebin the complete output of both scans |
| 19:03.35 | Shirik | their address |
| 19:03.38 | Dagmar | I'm aure you're overlooking something |
| 19:04.16 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (n=stolenle@d86-33-207-79.cust.tele2.at) |
| 19:04.24 | batrick | sounds like you pissed off one of their firewalls maybe? |
| 19:04.29 | Shirik | http://wowi.pastey.net/127435 |
| 19:05.34 | A-KO | Shirik: is your box hosted on a known spammer network of some sort? |
| 19:05.44 | A-KO | or a network that might have been used for spam at some opint in time? |
| 19:05.45 | Shirik | hell if I know, it's just a linode |
| 19:05.47 | Dagmar | Okay. That's effed up |
| 19:05.58 | Dagmar | Ohh. |
| 19:06.01 | A-KO | Shirik: best bet would be to talk to linode and ask them to contact the developer.... |
| 19:06.11 | A-KO | linode ftw, btw |
| 19:06.12 | Dagmar | You realize that nmap scans don't look like normal traffic, right? |
| 19:06.13 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: which linode? one of the linode datacenters blocks a lot of shit |
| 19:06.20 | A-KO | yeah that's possitlb,e too |
| 19:06.22 | A-KO | get out of Atlanta |
| 19:06.24 | A-KO | if you're there |
| 19:06.36 | Dagmar | If you're running the scan from A DIFFERENT PART OF THE INTERNET then that would be the piece you left out |
| 19:06.48 | batrick | Dagmar: the scan he specified is indistinguishable from normal connection attempts |
| 19:06.48 | A-KO | Shirik: I'm in New Jersey, it's open from my linode |
| 19:06.49 | Dagmar | This would also explain why it's showing 'filtered' |
| 19:07.08 | Shirik | dallas103 |
| 19:07.09 | Dagmar | When it says that, then you *definitely* have something coming back saying explicitly 'that's not allowed' |
| 19:07.22 | Dagmar | batrik: To newbs sure. |
| 19:07.25 | A-KO | Shirik: try migrating to another DC |
| 19:07.28 | Shirik | I can't move |
| 19:07.28 | A-KO | rather than the planet |
| 19:07.30 | A-KO | hm |
| 19:07.30 | batrick | Dagmar: ? |
| 19:07.33 | Shirik | without pissing off a lot of people |
| 19:07.41 | A-KO | Shirik: schedule it in some way? |
| 19:07.49 | A-KO | I don't have a node in Dallas to test with otherwise :P |
| 19:07.51 | Dagmar | batrick: It's detectable. |
| 19:08.11 | ZorbaGama | isn't "filtered" the same thing as "I have no idea"? |
| 19:08.18 | Dagmar | Nope. |
| 19:08.21 | ZorbaGama | I thought "closed" was "definitely not allowed" |
| 19:08.24 | batrick | Dagmar: how? |
| 19:08.24 | Shirik | sorta ZorbaGama. It means things are being dropped |
| 19:08.26 | A-KO | filtered means no response |
| 19:08.27 | Dagmar | Nope. |
| 19:08.33 | batrick | because i'm calling bullshit on that |
| 19:08.40 | ZorbaGama | yeah, if there's no response, then that's "no idea". |
| 19:08.40 | kd3 | filtered is no response; closed is "I'm here, but you can't connect" |
| 19:08.49 | batrick | Shirik: where's your linode? |
| 19:08.52 | Dagmar | batrick: Spend years working with the damn tool then |
| 19:08.52 | batrick | o nvm |
| 19:08.52 | Shirik | dallas103 |
| 19:09.00 | batrick | my dallas linode connects fine |
| 19:09.01 | Shirik | Dagmar: batrick has developed on nmap... |
| 19:09.02 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@172.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
| 19:09.10 | Dagmar | Great, good for him. |
| 19:09.10 | batrick | Dagmar: I develop for nmap |
| 19:09.19 | Dagmar | You guys can clearly handle this mystery all by yourself |
| 19:09.35 | Shirik | batrick: Out of curiosity, how close if your IP to mine? |
| 19:09.41 | Shirik | ~dns li23-154.members.linode.com |
| 19:09.42 | A-KO | Shirik: it's possible it's your ip block :P |
| 19:09.49 | batrick | !dns batbytes.com |
| 19:09.54 | batrick | ~dns batbytes.com |
| 19:10.27 | Grum | ~dns localhost |
| 19:10.45 | ScytheBlade1 | ~botsnack |
| 19:10.45 | purl | thanks, ScytheBlade1 |
| 19:10.47 | Grum | ~dns 127.0.0.2 |
| 19:10.53 | Grum | ;( |
| 19:11.08 | ScytheBlade1 | ~rdns 127.0.0.1 |
| 19:11.15 | A-KO | heh, reminds me of when I nmapped one of my servers at work and triggered the IPS |
| 19:11.16 | ScytheBlade1 | yeah nope |
| 19:11.18 | A-KO | when I was testing firewall rules |
| 19:11.22 | A-KO | got locked out of the machine for 10 minutes |
| 19:11.50 | Shirik | done that before |
| 19:11.55 | A-KO | was like "sob, damnit...not walking over to the datacenter to fix that one" |
| 19:11.58 | Shirik | except it was closer to an hour |
| 19:11.59 | ZorbaGama | always fun going back to an API you haven't touched for a year |
| 19:12.40 | A-KO | when I first started learning how to use iptables I locked myself out of a few machines |
| 19:13.03 | zenzelezz | iptables makes you want to do that |
| 19:14.20 | A-KO | lol |
| 19:14.22 | batrick | Shirik: try some of the other scan types to see what happens |
| 19:14.27 | batrick | e.g. -sA |
| 19:14.43 | batrick | although I'd probably say you just pissed off a firewall |
| 19:15.04 | Shirik | I'm not so sure it was me |
| 19:15.49 | Shirik | is there a way to do a two-sided request? Like send the request from one box and receive it on another? |
| 19:15.51 | batrick | pastey a traceroute of the host |
| 19:16.04 | Shirik | the traceroutes match on both my computer and the box |
| 19:16.10 | Shirik | but you can have it if you want |
| 19:16.14 | Dagmar | Right... now... as to whether or not NMAP is detectable |
| 19:16.15 | Dagmar | http://pastebin.ca/1651882 |
| 19:16.25 | Dagmar | Note that lines 9 and line 19 SHOULD match. They don't. |
| 19:16.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (n=Yssaril@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:16.39 | Dagmar | If they DID, _then_ it would maybe be harder to detect. |
| 19:16.51 | Dagmar | As it stands, what Shirik did was _detectable_ as an nmap scan |
| 19:17.04 | Shirik | I was blocked before this anyway, so it's irrelevant |
| 19:17.08 | Dagmar | Not that I'm saying its' got anything to do with linode blocking the traffic, but it's definitely detectable |
| 19:17.34 | Dagmar | I used to run crap all the time _just_ to spot nmap scans because there was a point when I actually gave a fuck what people used to try to break in |
| 19:18.12 | Mikk | Mhm. I used to read firewall logs too. |
| 19:18.28 | Shirik | and I'm still pretty sure it's undetectable. Perhaps telnet and nmap act differently, but there's no guarantee that a program might not act like nmap did |
| 19:18.32 | Dagmar | Yeah then one day I decided I really didn't give that much of a crap, because no one ever got in anyway |
| 19:18.33 | Shirik | all nmap did was send out a SYN request, that's it |
| 19:18.39 | Shirik | that is required for every connection |
| 19:18.59 | Dagmar | Shirik: Other mechanisms set different bits in the packets |
| 19:19.15 | Shirik | that's not necessarily required |
| 19:19.21 | A-KO | you don't have to set those options |
| 19:19.25 | Dagmar | You can learn a lot about an attacker from studying their traffic in detail. |
| 19:19.29 | zenzelezz | clearly Shirik sent packets with the Evil Bit set |
| 19:19.39 | Dagmar | Whetehr or not this information is the least bit useful is what's mainly the problem |
| 19:20.04 | Dagmar | "it's not necessary" "you don't have to set those" <-- this doesn't matter one damn bit |
| 19:20.14 | Shirik | all that's different is the DF flag |
| 19:20.19 | Dagmar | _nmap_'s scans come out looking the same way pretty much everywehre |
| 19:20.20 | Shirik | which may or may not be set by the application |
| 19:20.22 | Dagmar | You know they're nmap |
| 19:20.28 | Shirik | because it doesn't request DF? |
| 19:20.36 | Shirik | that's a laughable claim |
| 19:20.39 | Dagmar | Doesn't matter what other application it "might have been". |
| 19:20.53 | Shirik | yes it does... |
| 19:21.04 | Dagmar | If you see anything like "significant" levels of traffic of that "style" coming in, you can fuck with the user on the other end |
| 19:21.38 | Shirik | anyway, irrelevant, I'm not trying to avoid them knowing I scanned them with nmap. I even sent them the nmap output |
| 19:21.59 | Dagmar | There's this thing called "TCP fingerprinting" and I assure it's useful for more than just figuring out what a remote target host is |
| 19:22.03 | Shirik | and........... |
| 19:22.09 | Shirik | their response which I just got was "Please try clearing the cookies and cache in your web browser. If you use Internet Explorer, you can do this by performing the following: " |
| 19:22.21 | Dagmar | Shirik: Tier I support is cool like that |
| 19:22.30 | kd3 | yay copypasta |
| 19:22.38 | Dagmar | You should make sure they keep putting the food in their cages |
| 19:22.52 | Dagmar | ...otherwise their chickesn might stop responding to emails |
| 19:23.11 | Iriel | Mock that kind of response all you like, but 95% of the time it works. |
| 19:23.42 | Dagmar | Iriel: For those of us who know more than 95% of the users, it also means technical support is perpetual fail |
| 19:23.52 | kd3 | whee; fark: "Once again while the rest of the nation runs around adjusting every clock they own, trying to remember if they should fall forward or spring back, the people of Arizona smugly smile, knowing they aren't slaves to daylight-savings time [Spiffy]" |
| 19:23.52 | zenzelezz | .. for us |
| 19:24.08 | kd3 | but hey; it gave me an extra hour to get trashed at a halloween party |
| 19:24.29 | Dagmar | I don't talk to Tier I people anymore because it's a waste of my damn time. I've invariably gone through every possible Tier I troubleshooting stop and most of what Tier II might think to ask about before I've picked up the phone |
| 19:24.57 | Dagmar | kd3: That's okay, Arizona doesn't believe in black people either. |
| 19:25.20 | Dagmar | No Martin Luther King day in AZ. |
| 19:25.49 | nevcairiel | doesnt it annoy people more that half of the year they are one hour off to their neighbour states then changing the clock? |
| 19:25.52 | nevcairiel | it would for me |
| 19:26.07 | Dagmar | nevcariel: Betcha it makes for some fun jokes near the state line tho |
| 19:26.14 | zenzelezz | nevcairiel: the US already spans four time zones |
| 19:26.15 | Dagmar | Easy time travel and so forth |
| 19:26.21 | zenzelezz | someone is always "one hour off" |
| 19:26.49 | nevcairiel | zenzelezz: of course, but you don't have to increase that by creating time islands :P |
| 19:27.15 | zenzelezz | I wonder what it's like in Russia, how many time zones does it span? That country is huge |
| 19:27.19 | Dagmar | Whassit, Ohio or Indiana? One state is especially pernicious in that they've got individual counties deciding if they want DST or not, and some of the fuckers went for half hour increments for awhile |
| 19:27.31 | Grum | zenzelezz: communism doesnt need a timezone! |
| 19:27.40 | zenzelezz | they're not communist |
| 19:27.49 | nevcairiel | zenzelezz: only in the western parts really live people, all the remaining stuff.. :P |
| 19:28.18 | zenzelezz | true |
| 19:28.44 | Dagmar | Ah, I see it was IN |
| 19:29.45 | batrick | IN used to do that |
| 19:30.07 | Shirik | Iriel: I'm pretty sure someone who gives you nmap output, it's not going to help |
| 19:30.12 | Dagmar | According to what I just saw they're still divided by county there |
| 19:31.13 | Shirik | It was very difficult to respond to it without saying something rude like "give me someone who understands nmap output please" |
| 19:31.17 | nevcairiel | if you ask me, DST should really be controlled by the federal government, but shrug, i'll never understand the US-way |
| 19:31.18 | Iriel | Shirik: I usually say 'Thanks, i've tried all of those and it's not resolved my issue, maybe this information could help your network support folks assist me?" |
| 19:31.26 | Shirik | That's what I said a while ago :P |
| 19:31.54 | Shirik | I'm fairly convinced the problem is obvious, they just refuse to believe me |
| 19:32.03 | Dagmar | Shirik: The magic phrase is usually "Connect me with tier II please?" or to explain that they don't actually have the clout required to fix the problem so that they should hand you off to their boss who might, and because it'll irritate their boss |
| 19:32.05 | Shirik | granted, I can't be certain, but it looks like a wide area ban that affects me |
| 19:32.10 | Dagmar | TS reps generally don't like their bosses |
| 19:32.14 | Iriel | One observation I've made over the years is while we know more than 95% of the users, we're also a lot more likely to have shot ourselves in the foot. more than once i've had a bizarre issue that turns out to be entirely my fault. |
| 19:32.44 | ZorbaGama | man, at some point I really need to sit down and add some kind of global table scanning for QH |
| 19:32.56 | ZorbaGama | tired of accidentally littering the global table |
| 19:33.14 | nevcairiel | use mikks scanner :P |
| 19:33.17 | Shirik | Well my last paragraph was 'I am not sure how your support system operates, but if there is a "tier 2" support for technical service or such, I would appreciate it if this ticket were elevated to a person that knows how to interpret and evaluate the nmap output that I have provided and/or has the capability of checking (or contacting someone to check) if the IP is in fact filtered out.' |
| 19:33.21 | Iriel | I have a script that does a luac and scans the output for errant set/get globals |
| 19:33.22 | Dagmar | Shirik: Yeah rather likely they're doing it becasue otherwise lame-ass people set up for-pay proxies anywhere they can to hide their origin point in order to make it harder to track down stolen accounts |
| 19:33.23 | Shirik | of a 3 paragraph response |
| 19:33.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelo (n=chatzill@88-109-40-10.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 19:33.34 | Dagmar | Freeshell has a ton of stuff that's blocked |
| 19:33.47 | ZorbaGama | mmm, not a bad idea |
| 19:33.52 | ZorbaGama | I'll have to check it out |
| 19:34.01 | batrick | Dagmar: there was legislation that the entire state of IN be on daylight savings time |
| 19:34.17 | batrick | the deviations you are seeing is because some counties are in Central and others are in EST |
| 19:34.18 | Dagmar | Shririk: Run tcpdump -l -v -n host ip.ip.ip.ip alongside it |
| 19:34.35 | Dagmar | batrick: Yeah I know |
| 19:34.44 | Dagmar | I drove through the state once when they were still allowing counties to pick |
| 19:34.57 | Dagmar | This is why i know some communities had decided on half-hour jumps |
| 19:35.00 | Dagmar | It was making me crazy |
| 19:35.23 | Dagmar | Id' think I was making good time, and then I'd pass some bank with a completely jacked up time on it's sign, and down the street, the same time showing there |
| 19:36.04 | Dagmar | Now the DoT apparently doesn't reconize the _really_ local times anymore |
| 19:36.12 | Dagmar | ...which is completely fine by me |
| 19:36.24 | Shirik | lol half hour? |
| 19:36.56 | Arrowmaster | rednecks are why we cant have nice things |
| 19:36.59 | Shirik | dst really should just be abolished. We don't live in the stone age anymore, we have these things called "lights" |
| 19:37.04 | Shirik | they're pretty cool |
| 19:37.18 | Dagmar | Yeah I think some places just decided to split the difference since it would mean while they might always be off compared to someone else, tehy'd at least only be a half hour off |
| 19:37.29 | Lopeppeppy | Bite me, Arrowmaster. :P |
| 19:37.48 | Shirik | ? |
| 19:37.53 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Mostly up there it's farmers and whateevr they do in cornfields, to corn |
| 19:37.54 | Dagmar | afaik |
| 19:38.16 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: flordia complained that it was too dark out for school children to be outside waiting for the schoolbusses in the morning before they moved DST to end in november |
| 19:38.24 | Arrowmaster | imho flordia should have just switched to CST |
| 19:38.36 | Dagmar | If you're in a car with four people, and you're the only one whose hair isn't some vivid crayola color, you really have to pay attention to the locals watching you |
| 19:39.29 | Dagmar | It was less harrowing than some of the drives I've had with ravers |
| 19:39.44 | Shirik | now here's the fun part |
| 19:39.53 | Shirik | "I am escalating your ticket for further assistance. Once your ticket has been reviewed someone will be in contact with you as soon as possible." |
| 19:40.03 | Shirik | the real question is whether or not they really escalated the ticket |
| 19:40.11 | Dagmar | They probably did |
| 19:40.16 | Shirik | I worked as a GM for one game once where we had a concept of "escalated ticket" |
| 19:40.28 | Dagmar | What would be truly ideal is if someone would fix their damn routers so they actually sent back an ICMP when they drop your packets |
| 19:40.29 | Shirik | everyone was actually tier 1 support. When we escalated a ticket, it just transferred it to someone else. There was no higher leve. |
| 19:40.40 | Shirik | We just made them convinced that they were getting some kind of assistance |
| 19:40.52 | Dagmar | ...but then you'd be seeing a different (and probably more useful) message out of nmap |
| 19:40.55 | Shirik | GENERALLY it was used when someone without tech knowledge was sending the ticket to someone with tech knowledge |
| 19:41.02 | Shirik | but.... there really was no difference |
| 19:41.24 | Dagmar | You worked for Sony? |
| 19:41.28 | Shirik | lol no |
| 19:41.42 | Dagmar | Ah well, don't feel too bad |
| 19:41.50 | Dagmar | I know you guys weren't the only people doing that |
| 19:42.01 | Dagmar | BellSouth tried it on me a couple of times |
| 19:42.18 | Thunder_Child | beacon needs to last longer damit! |
| 19:42.30 | Dagmar | Hint: Never give your own name when you do that, because I might actually be looking up your name in the company directory. Hehe |
| 19:42.50 | Dagmar | ...and _then_ I'll be requesting to speak to an actual supervisor, by name. |
| 19:44.26 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@172.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
| 19:44.32 | *** join/#wowuidev AckisWork (n=Ackis@67.23.21.108) |
| 19:44.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Arrowmaster (i=arrow@cpe-24-164-68-128.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 19:44.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@athedsl-350939.home.otenet.gr) |
| 19:44.37 | zenzelezz | O_o |
| 19:44.37 | Thunder_Child | lol |
| 19:44.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Dave2 (i=Dave2@freenode/staff/dave2) |
| 19:44.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Ericpeeg (i=Ericpeeg@69.5.224.180) |
| 19:44.37 | Shirik | uh |
| 19:45.19 | *** join/#wowuidev imbrandon (n=brandon@72.135.8.5) |
| 19:45.19 | *** join/#wowuidev ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@64.22.125.133) |
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| 19:45.20 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+rRf #shiibot] by Shiibot |
| 19:45.20 | zenzelezz | syn. must be mad |
| 19:45.20 | Shiibot | Channel locked temporarily. Elapsed time: 6557 minutes |
| 19:45.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Ruck (n=bleh@72.86.106.233) |
| 19:45.22 | *** join/#wowuidev cyndis (i=cyndis@82.128.138.2) |
| 19:45.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Aqua (n=Aquavett@74.137.181.161) |
| 19:45.22 | zenzelezz | Shiibot discovered how to travel space and time |
| 19:45.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Ericpeeg (i=Ericpeeg@69.5.224.180) |
| 19:45.23 | *** join/#wowuidev zeheres (n=crs@dslb-084-061-093-001.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:45.23 | *** join/#wowuidev [SW]Dodge`oFF (i=dodge@87.98.246.230) |
| 19:45.25 | Shirik | lol what do you mean zenzelezz? |
| 19:46.04 | zenzelezz | <Shiibot> Channel locked temporarily. Elapsed time: 6557 minutes |
| 19:46.29 | Shirik | he rebooted recently |
| 19:46.29 | zenzelezz | how does that affect whichever timer that uses? |
| 19:46.29 | Shirik | I don't store the timer |
| 19:46.53 | Shirik | so that's just time since startup |
| 19:46.53 | *** join/#wowuidev ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 19:46.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 19:46.55 | *** join/#wowuidev ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 19:46.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 19:47.14 | kd3 | whee |
| 19:47.14 | nevcairiel | someone at freenode seems to be messing up the link between some servers |
| 19:47.14 | Shirik | so um, hey you, Shiibot |
| 19:47.14 | Shirik | chillax! |
| 19:47.18 | kd3 | 14:46:48> -Md- [GlobalNotice] sorry for the recent mass-kill issue! we are investigating what happened exactly |
| 19:47.25 | *** mode/#wowuidev [-rRf] by Shirik |
| 19:47.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 19:47.27 | Shirik | !reload |
| 19:47.27 | Shiibot | AI routines & configuration reloaded |
| 19:47.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Dotted (n=Dotted@84.238.80.185) |
| 19:47.37 | Shirik | though he was correct in making that lock |
| 19:47.45 | Shirik | because that wasn't a netsplit :) |
| 19:47.53 | zenzelezz | Freenode became self-aware |
| 19:47.58 | haste | oh shi- |
| 19:48.13 | nevcairiel | that was an evil lock though |
| 19:48.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+rRf #shiibot] by irc.freenode.net |
| 19:48.20 | Shirik | stop that |
| 19:48.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [-rRf] by Shirik |
| 19:48.27 | kd3 | lol |
| 19:48.29 | nevcairiel | services are down, so people couldn't atuh |
| 19:48.31 | nevcairiel | and not rejoin |
| 19:48.33 | Shirik | yeah sorry nevcairiel :( |
| 19:48.44 | *** join/#wowuidev ajmitch (n=ajmitch@172.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
| 19:48.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@71.59.222.35) |
| 19:48.53 | *** join/#wowuidev batrick_ (n=batrick@batbytes.com) |
| 19:48.54 | *** join/#wowuidev batrick (n=batrick@batbytes.com) |
| 19:48.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@athedsl-350939.home.otenet.gr) |
| 19:48.56 | *** join/#wowuidev davis (i=davis@pilot.trilug.org) |
| 19:49.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Codayus (i=cody@lilly.csoft.net) |
| 19:49.01 | *** join/#wowuidev cogwheel (n=cogwheel@99-33-83-160.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:49.01 | Shirik | I mean that's not really something I could have predicted |
| 19:49.02 | nevcairiel | sees another lock |
| 19:49.06 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter (n=bleeter@ppp59-167-74-46.lns20.hba1.internode.on.net) |
| 19:49.08 | *** join/#wowuidev ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@smtp.mail.averageurl.com) |
| 19:49.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+rRf #shiibot] by Shiibot |
| 19:49.09 | Shiibot | Channel locked temporarily. Elapsed time: 6 minutes |
| 19:49.11 | Shirik | ... |
| 19:49.12 | Shirik | !quit |
| 19:49.17 | *** mode/#wowuidev [-rRf] by Shirik |
| 19:49.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Arrowmaster (i=arrow@cpe-24-164-68-128.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 19:49.27 | nevcairiel | its bound to happen with all those default rejoins |
| 19:49.29 | Shirik | yes |
| 19:49.37 | Adys | Shirik: what happened? |
| 19:49.42 | kd3 | 14:46:48> -Md- [GlobalNotice] sorry for the recent mass-kill issue! we are investigating what happened exactly |
| 19:49.46 | Shirik | I'm not quite sure |
| 19:49.51 | Adys | ah ok |
| 19:49.57 | Shirik | It's either a security vulnerability or servers hating each other |
| 19:50.12 | *** join/#wowuidev batbot (n=batbot@batbytes.com) |
| 19:50.21 | zenzelezz | I sticky by my explanation |
| 19:50.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Dotoff (i=Dotted@bureaucrat.wowwiki.dk) |
| 19:50.29 | Shirik | sticky? |
| 19:50.44 | zenzelezz | yes, I'm locking it to the top of the channel |
| 19:50.47 | zenzelezz | I typo, k? |
| 19:51.10 | Shirik | anyway nevcairiel, it's not something I could have predicted. He detected a bunch of quits and joins which was a typical spam attack back when shiibot was created, so jumped on it |
| 19:51.19 | *** join/#wowuidev batrick (n=batrick@batbytes.com) |
| 19:51.26 | Shirik | I only suppress this situation in netsplits |
| 19:51.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Dave2 (i=Dave2@freenode/staff/dave2) |
| 19:51.55 | nevcairiel | well netsplits have a special set of events so its easy to detect them |
| 19:52.00 | Adys | [21:51:57] * nickserv :No such nick/channel |
| 19:52.00 | Shirik | right |
| 19:52.01 | Adys | :( |
| 19:52.03 | *** join/#wowuidev durcyn (n=durcyn@70.114.135.190) |
| 19:52.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Dagmar (i=dagmar@c-98-193-180-167.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 19:52.14 | nevcairiel | i used to write a set of security bots |
| 19:52.19 | nevcairiel | like, hmm |
| 19:52.24 | nevcairiel | that was so long ago |
| 19:52.29 | Arrowmaster | i cant get back in #debian |
| 19:52.32 | Dagmar | pre-2000 for me |
| 19:52.39 | nevcairiel | i don't even remember |
| 19:52.46 | nevcairiel | must've been at least 8 or 9 years |
| 19:52.52 | Dagmar | chanserv and nickserv appear to be busticated at the moment |
| 19:52.53 | *** join/#wowuidev ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 19:52.53 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 19:53.12 | Arrowmaster | theyre back |
| 19:53.12 | Shirik | busticated? |
| 19:53.22 | Dagmar | Broken |
| 19:53.24 | Dagmar | Thank goodness |
| 19:53.25 | *** join/#wowuidev jaxdahl (i=foobar@cpe-70-112-126-227.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 19:53.33 | nevcairiel | i used to run at least 2 or 3 bots linked to each other so people couldn't come in when one of them split or went down |
| 19:53.34 | Dagmar | I've got about six split windows that aren't generated until I auth to nickserv |
| 19:53.42 | Dagmar | I didn't ant to have to go ferret those commands out and paste them in |
| 19:53.51 | nevcairiel | thats what you get for developing anti-cheats, cheaters spam the hell out of you :P |
| 19:53.53 | *** join/#wowuidev jadakren (n=airtonix@ppp118-210-203-40.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 19:53.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelo (n=chatzill@88-109-40-10.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 19:54.09 | Shirik | lol |
| 19:54.11 | Arrowmaster | nevcairiel: eggdrops? |
| 19:54.23 | Dagmar | nevcariel: RightBrain and LeftBrain and AnnaPhase were mine in #Rave |
| 19:54.29 | nevcairiel | yea Arrowmaster |
| 19:54.48 | zenzelezz | I remember trying to run eggdrops, back when it was cool (among my friends) |
| 19:54.50 | nevcairiel | but only as the base, the whole tcl thing was custom |
| 19:54.59 | zenzelezz | couldn't grasp Tcl |
| 19:55.05 | Dagmar | That's not a bad thing. |
| 19:55.11 | Dagmar | Tcl is evil |
| 19:55.16 | Arrowmaster | eggdrop really needs to move on and use something newer than tcl, its still one of the best bots for channel control |
| 19:55.30 | nevcairiel | tcl isnt that bad, its just old |
| 19:55.39 | Arrowmaster | right and nobody knows it anymore |
| 19:55.49 | nevcairiel | my university still used to teach people tcl when i did the unix course |
| 19:55.53 | Shirik | Lua! |
| 19:55.56 | nevcairiel | now they switched to ruby |
| 19:56.01 | Shirik | oh fuck ruby |
| 19:56.17 | Dagmar | No, tcl is bad |
| 19:56.20 | Arrowmaster | the annual git survey shows that tcl is one of the least known languages they put on the survey, but git-gui and gitk are written in it, which is why nobody ever works on them |
| 19:56.31 | Dagmar | They made changes between minor revisions of tcl that would break your stuff |
| 19:56.48 | Shirik | the annual git survey |
| 19:56.52 | Shirik | this is across people that use git? |
| 19:57.00 | Dagmar | Things like _changing the order or number of parameters you'd pass to a function_ |
| 19:57.48 | Pneumatus | annual survey of people who are gits |
| 19:57.50 | Pneumatus | imo |
| 19:58.02 | Dagmar | It made the process of determining whether or not your tcl code was being loaded for the first time, or whether or not you werea botu to duplicate all your hooks, or _which bloody version of tcl you were on_ a right pain in the ass |
| 19:58.04 | Shirik | a git is a thing? |
| 19:58.21 | nevcairiel | of course Shirik |
| 19:58.34 | Shirik | what is it? |
| 19:58.48 | Pneumatus | british slang i guess |
| 19:58.55 | zenzelezz | "British Slang. a foolish or contemptible person." |
| 19:59.00 | Pneumatus | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_%28British_slang%29 according to wikipedia :P |
| 19:59.05 | Lopeppeppy | Jerk |
| 19:59.10 | nevcairiel | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=git |
| 19:59.14 | zenzelezz | Lopeppeppy: be kind :( |
| 19:59.22 | Lopeppeppy | :P |
| 19:59.25 | nevcairiel | 1. A completely ignorant, childish person with no manners. |
| 19:59.30 | Shirik | wow |
| 19:59.34 | Shirik | I didn't realize how appropriate git's name was |
| 19:59.46 | Dagmar | Sounds like the sort of people who'd change argument ordering between minor revisions to me |
| 19:59.53 | nevcairiel | 3. A pubescent kid who thinks it's totally cool to act like a moron on the internet, only because no one can actually reach through the screen and punch their lights out. |
| 19:59.57 | nevcairiel | who does that remind you of? :P |
| 20:00.04 | Pneumatus | linus! |
| 20:00.07 | Pneumatus | owait, fisker! |
| 20:00.11 | Dagmar | Yep |
| 20:00.26 | Shirik | agree with linus |
| 20:02.28 | Shirik | I just realized all the kills were at the high end of the alphabet |
| 20:02.33 | Shirik | for the most part |
| 20:02.44 | Shirik | ah no |
| 20:02.46 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1 got killed |
| 20:03.15 | Dagmar | Shirik: It looked pretty indiscriminate to me |
| 20:03.31 | Shirik | maybe we just have more people at the high end |
| 20:03.39 | Dagmar | Could be. |
| 20:03.56 | Dagmar | ...but the server don't sort names internally |
| 20:04.05 | Shirik | but an attack could |
| 20:04.25 | Dagmar | If that was an attack then someone's got some serious bragging rights |
| 20:04.44 | Dagmar | I've not seen a mass nick collide like that in at least ten years |
| 20:05.03 | Gnarfoz | I wonder what that was, tbh |
| 20:05.06 | nevcairiel | bug in a utility bot, eh |
| 20:05.12 | Dagmar | I believe 'em |
| 20:05.15 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 20:05.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 20:05.27 | Dagmar | It's always dodgy linking servers together with users on both ends. |
| 20:05.52 | Shirik | You know |
| 20:05.58 | Shirik | I would love to direct my questions to #freenode |
| 20:06.07 | Shirik | except #freenode has been redirecting to ##overflow for the past 15 minutes |
| 20:06.13 | Gnarfoz | wonder why that is |
| 20:06.14 | Gnarfoz | :P |
| 20:06.16 | Dagmar | For awhile EFNet was trying something that I thought was fun.... if a certain number of collisions happened at one during a join, the server would decide that it was synching the wrong way |
| 20:06.24 | Arrowmaster | servers dont even use names internally |
| 20:07.04 | Dagmar | The result? It would start the sync process over again. |
| 20:07.18 | Dagmar | So if you were looking for mayhem you could keep a server in a partially synched state for hours on end |
| 20:08.07 | *** join/#wowuidev felipe` (n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se) |
| 20:08.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Balreign (n=Balreign@ANantes-156-1-68-171.w90-12.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:08.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Shiibot (n=Shiibot@WoWUIDev/Nospam) |
| 20:08.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shiibot] by ChanServ |
| 20:09.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Sarkp (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 20:10.15 | Shirik | I wonder how high Shiibot's score got during the kill |
| 20:10.23 | Sarkp | "World first Tribute to Immortality by Ensidia" let the nationalist baiting begin! |
| 20:10.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:10.39 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 20:10.46 | batrick | Shirik: obligatory: over 9000 |
| 20:11.20 | Dagmar | Shiibot has a score? |
| 20:11.27 | Shirik | Warning: Attempt to lock the lock channel. Ignoring. |
| 20:11.27 | Shirik | :batrick!n=batrick@batbytes.com PRIVMSG #shiibot :-so i guess we're all in #shiibot now |
| 20:11.28 | Shirik | lol. |
| 20:11.38 | Dagmar | Oh |
| 20:11.43 | Dagmar | How the hell was that even happening? |
| 20:12.04 | Dagmar | I didn't know shiibot even had a channel. Did it kick on some auto-redirect for the channel or something>? |
| 20:12.23 | ScytheBlade1 | yes |
| 20:12.27 | Shirik | when he locks the channel he redirects blocked to #shiibot |
| 20:12.39 | Dagmar | ...and I take it he locked the channel because of all the collides |
| 20:13.08 | Shirik | he detected a join/quit flood that was not caused by a netsplit |
| 20:13.09 | Gnarfoz | Sarkp: lawl |
| 20:13.18 | Dagmar | Well, that would do it |
| 20:13.19 | Dagmar | heh |
| 20:13.44 | Dagmar | I'd say that mass nick collides never happen anymore, but clearly that wouldn't include acts of administrator oopsie |
| 20:13.53 | Shirik | He got up to a score of 3942860 |
| 20:13.58 | Shirik | A score of 60 is required for a lock |
| 20:14.05 | Dagmar | whoo |
| 20:14.50 | Shirik | and then ... he detected a problem because it continued .... |
| 20:14.53 | batrick | OVER 9000!!! |
| 20:15.00 | Shirik | so he locked it for -inf seconds: #wowuidev locked for -inf seconds |
| 20:15.00 | Dagmar | batrick: :) |
| 20:15.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (n=Cide@h238n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 20:15.05 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 20:15.12 | batrick | ^_^ |
| 20:15.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Ruck (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:15.40 | Lopeppeppy | Shiibot is wicked smart |
| 20:16.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@ip98-163-120-139.dc.dc.cox.net) |
| 20:16.06 | Shirik | lol Dagmar |
| 20:16.08 | Shirik | I didn't see this |
| 20:16.10 | Shirik | :Dagmar!i=dagmar@c-98-193-180-167.hsd1.tn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #shiibot :-Well, I don't know about you guys but syn's my new hero. heeh |
| 20:16.21 | Dagmar | I was impressed |
| 20:16.43 | Dagmar | I was so busy looking at the screen saying "Wow, a mass nick collision... I haven't seen one of those in ages" to think to change my damn nick |
| 20:16.59 | Dagmar | s/so/too/; |
| 20:17.20 | Shirik | WTF batrick!! |
| 20:17.22 | Shirik | It wasn't my fault |
| 20:17.34 | batrick | yes it was! |
| 20:17.45 | batrick | shiibot is actually syn |
| 20:17.51 | Shirik | yes, you caught me |
| 20:17.53 | batrick | blew your secret shirik |
| 20:18.00 | Lopeppeppy | If y'all don't break shit, Shiibot won't smack you around. :) |
| 20:18.42 | *** join/#wowuidev chii (i=chii@freenode/bot/chii) |
| 20:22.44 | Thunder_Child | wasnt us, talk to the utility boy |
| 20:22.46 | Thunder_Child | bot* |
| 20:25.05 | Shirik | chii was never mean like syn |
| 20:26.51 | Shirik | curious |
| 20:27.20 | Shirik | I was right a bit about the alphabetical thing |
| 20:27.26 | Shirik | I just didn't hit the right half |
| 20:27.55 | Shirik | everyone who got killed has an ident that starts with letters between A and F. The reason I saw the alphabetical nature is because idents tend to follow the nickname |
| 20:28.12 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=doingwha@unaffiliated/dwsr) |
| 20:28.36 | Dagmar | Very sneaky of them to use the registration database like that |
| 20:28.38 | Dagmar | \hehe |
| 20:28.57 | Dagmar | Get rid of all the ops without wasting time killing non ops |
| 20:35.04 | *** join/#wowuidev ccox (n=ccox@c-76-21-106-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:35.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (n=Yssaril@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:35.34 | Shirik | (15:34:22) (+christel) but i've just had 7,000 pm's from Angry People whhile trying to work out wth happened and they were so angry i half considered trying to make it happen again and not let anyone back on! |
| 20:35.35 | Shirik | rofl |
| 20:35.41 | Shirik | poor christel :( |
| 20:35.51 | Dagmar | He should just collide the people who message him |
| 20:35.57 | Dagmar | THey'll figure it out fast enough |
| 20:36.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (n=Cide@h238n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 20:36.17 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 20:37.07 | Arrowmaster | everytime i join a new channel somebody comments on my cloak |
| 20:37.12 | Dagmar | on ^privmsg "* *" {quote syn kill $1 "Nick collision. lulz"} |
| 20:37.22 | Dagmar | er quote privmsg |
| 20:38.22 | Dagmar | ahh poo that should have probably been $3 as well |
| 20:38.53 | Shirik | lol Arrowmaster |
| 20:38.56 | Shirik | I saw that |
| 20:40.30 | Thunder_Child | thats because your cloak sucks |
| 20:41.37 | Arrowmaster | some freenode staffer asked how the hell i got a cloak that long once |
| 20:41.52 | Shirik | lol |
| 20:41.59 | zenzelezz | did you tell them that Cairenn likes it big? |
| 20:42.10 | zenzelezz | or did you get it from someone else |
| 20:42.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Dolby (n=Dolby@MMOI/Administrator/Dolby) |
| 20:42.32 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Dolby] by ChanServ |
| 20:42.33 | Shirik | zenzelezz >< |
| 20:42.37 | Shirik | you are so bad |
| 20:42.46 | Shirik | Dolby, you are banned from freenode |
| 20:42.49 | Shirik | did you not see the message? |
| 20:43.02 | Arrowmaster | she has to get somebody on the freenode staff to actually set the cloaks for people |
| 20:43.55 | zenzelezz | thought so, but anytime someone asks about cloaks she seems to say to just ask her |
| 20:44.18 | Shirik | you have to go through her |
| 20:44.22 | Shirik | she's the group admin |
| 20:47.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Nechckn (n=N@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Admin/Nechckn) |
| 20:47.54 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Nechckn] by ChanServ |
| 20:50.25 | *** join/#wowuidev dear_light (n=chatzill@cpe-66-25-173-204.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 20:53.10 | Shirik | I think announce.freenode.net just got ddosed |
| 20:53.15 | Dagmar | covers his eyes at the sight of "b*lls-*p" appearing in formal notification mechanisms |
| 20:54.22 | cogwheel | loves imgburn's error messages |
| 20:55.14 | zenzelezz | meh, that was less fun than the .se TLD dropping out |
| 20:55.31 | Shirik | ROFL |
| 20:55.38 | Shirik | so that's why everyone who dropped was between a and f |
| 20:55.59 | Shirik | any ident that starts with a hex digit was considered an IP address |
| 20:56.10 | cogwheel | haha |
| 20:56.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 20:56.46 | kd3 | whee |
| 20:56.51 | ScytheBlade1 | so I won! |
| 20:56.53 | Lopeppeppy | whee? |
| 20:57.09 | Lopeppeppy | is not a hex! |
| 20:57.09 | kd3 | me too. yay kd3!kd3@Kaydeethree |
| 20:57.22 | Shirik | hexes Lopeppeppy |
| 20:57.29 | zenzelezz | peppy hexed me |
| 20:58.51 | Fisker | hurr hurr |
| 20:59.05 | Fisker | had portal spawn on jaraxxus during the last 5% on hardmode |
| 20:59.06 | Fisker | ;3 |
| 21:01.41 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 21:05.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Aiiane (n=Aiiane@starfire.ST.HMC.Edu) |
| 21:06.29 | kd3 | oh wow. that's gotta be a bug |
| 21:06.36 | kd3 | someone cast detect invis on me and I can see the ghosts |
| 21:07.08 | ccox | not a bug, the ghosts are just lesser invis |
| 21:07.49 | jadakren | what else floats in water? |
| 21:08.16 | Arrowmaster | the tooltips for the times explicitly says 'lesser invis' |
| 21:08.19 | Arrowmaster | items |
| 21:08.46 | Arrowmaster | you should be able to see mages casing invis if you use the items |
| 21:10.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Droolio (n=drool@87.194.188.170) |
| 21:13.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Duman (n=duman@crossover.boom.net) |
| 21:14.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 21:14.33 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 21:16.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraftman (n=Chris@cpc1-cwma7-2-0-cust280.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 21:16.42 | *** join/#wowuidev bryno (n=bryno@cpe-72-179-179-105.satx.res.rr.com) |
| 21:17.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Nechckn (n=N@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Admin/Nechckn) |
| 21:17.25 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Nechckn] by ChanServ |
| 21:17.34 | Shirik | huggles Cairenn |
| 21:17.59 | Cairenn | hugs Shirik |
| 21:18.13 | Lopeppeppy | huggles Shirik and Cairenn. Triangle Man loves Universe Man! |
| 21:18.21 | Cairenn | hugs Lopeppeppy |
| 21:18.25 | Shirik | o.o |
| 21:18.34 | zenzelezz | feels left out |
| 21:18.34 | Shirik | huggles Lopeppeppy |
| 21:19.36 | Lopeppeppy | I only have two arms, zenzelezz, and you got hugs earlier. :P |
| 21:20.01 | zenzelezz | but it feels like such a long time ago :( |
| 21:20.08 | *** join/#wowuidev olafski (n=egrimm@dream.student.utwente.nl) |
| 21:20.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Bibi (n=Bibi@AVelizy-151-1-73-118.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:20.44 | Fisker | i hate that stupid rogue |
| 21:21.49 | Lopeppeppy | Awww. *huggle* |
| 21:23.22 | Fisker | http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?323568-Strictly-Legal <-haha lol |
| 21:23.28 | Fisker | he probably plays wow too |
| 21:24.02 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraioc_ (n=tomh@cpc1-oxfd19-2-0-cust805.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 21:25.49 | Dagmar | Some people are just that petty |
| 21:25.59 | *** join/#wowuidev BWMerlin (n=chatzill@58.174.148.250) |
| 21:35.46 | *** join/#wowuidev |Yssaril| (n=Yssaril@99-57-32-25.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:36.49 | *** part/#wowuidev Dave2 (i=Dave2@freenode/staff/dave2) |
| 21:39.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 21:41.15 | *** join/#wowuidev copystring (i=11794cop@o0o.o0o.o0o.o88-51-51-6o9.co.uk) |
| 21:47.54 | *** join/#wowuidev AbsolutRayne (n=chatzill@74.127.239.29) |
| 21:48.03 | AbsolutRayne | ho hum |
| 21:48.37 | Lopeppeppy | Hi ho, Kermit the Frog here! |
| 21:49.55 | Shirik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc |
| 21:51.38 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak (n=cbreak@217-162-225-215.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:51.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@82.111.117.130) |
| 21:54.39 | *** part/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko) |
| 21:55.35 | AbsolutRayne | Lopeppeppy: :D |
| 21:56.25 | Lopeppeppy | *innocent* |
| 21:56.58 | AbsolutRayne | Worst Uld10 ever. |
| 21:57.00 | AbsolutRayne | I want to cry. |
| 21:57.57 | Lopeppeppy | *hug* |
| 21:58.05 | Lopeppeppy | Have an ice cream cone |
| 21:58.59 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak (n=cbreak@217-162-225-215.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:59.24 | *** join/#wowuidev zeheres (n=crs@dslb-084-061-050-068.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:59.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneu^ (n=WiN@pneumatus.plus.com) |
| 22:07.30 | Shirik | `:-.-:` |
| 22:07.57 | Shirik | `-._.-` |
| 22:08.40 | Zyn | morse code 2.0 |
| 22:10.04 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-66-30-209-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 22:10.04 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 22:11.39 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=doingwha@24.114.252.244) |
| 22:12.25 | Lopeppeppy | morning, alestane |
| 22:12.32 | alestane | Somewhere. |
| 22:13.39 | Lopeppeppy | *poke* |
| 22:13.43 | Lopeppeppy | Be nice or I beats you. |
| 22:14.11 | alestane | lurvs Peppy. |
| 22:14.47 | Lopeppeppy | Better. |
| 22:14.51 | Lopeppeppy | See, it works. |
| 22:14.58 | Lopeppeppy | "Beatings will continue until morale improves." |
| 22:15.02 | Lopeppeppy | Morale improved, no beatings! |
| 22:15.11 | Cairenn | isn't nice |
| 22:15.20 | Lopeppeppy | Rawr. That's different. |
| 22:15.23 | Cairenn | ;) |
| 22:15.44 | Lopeppeppy | Cairenn, I want to eat chocolate smothered in chocolate with a chocolate chaser. Got any? |
| 22:15.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Pneu^ (n=WiN@pneumatus.plus.com) |
| 22:15.52 | Cairenn | no |
| 22:15.57 | Lopeppeppy | Me either. |
| 22:15.59 | Cairenn | but it sounds like a good idea! |
| 22:16.04 | Cairenn | grocery store run? |
| 22:16.04 | Lopeppeppy | Doesn't it? |
| 22:16.24 | Lopeppeppy | No, I'm all tucked in for the night, got my jammies on, grooving on my first day of NaNo. |
| 22:16.31 | Shirik | NaNo? |
| 22:16.36 | alestane | We bought break'n'bake triple-chocolate cookies today.. |
| 22:16.41 | WobWork | NaNoWriMo |
| 22:16.45 | *** join/#wowuidev smoke_ (n=smoke@adsl-75-63-188-18.dsl.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:16.46 | Shirik | o.O |
| 22:16.50 | Lopeppeppy | WobWork wins a prize! |
| 22:16.55 | WobWork | National Novel Writiing Month |
| 22:17.17 | Lopeppeppy | The site will be jammed since it started today, Shirik, but http://www.nanowrimo.org/. |
| 22:17.29 | WobWork | Basically, challenge oneself to write a novel in the month of November |
| 22:17.36 | Shirik | an entire novel? |
| 22:17.39 | Lopeppeppy | Basically, it's time to write or die. One month to churn out 50K words, make it happen. |
| 22:17.47 | Shirik | ow |
| 22:18.13 | Lopeppeppy | It's all about getting a first draft DONE. You can revise later. Just get the words OUT, get going, get that crap done. It works out to about 3 pages per day. |
| 22:18.36 | Cairenn | Shirik: there are lots of competitions like that |
| 22:18.36 | Lopeppeppy | But I know there are days I will not write, so on nice days like today, I try to write extra to stay ahead of the curve. |
| 22:18.54 | Cairenn | there's one up here that is only a week long |
| 22:19.07 | Lopeppeppy | NaNo is pretty gentle at 50K, I think. It's a challenge, but very achievable, since you have an entire month. |
| 22:19.10 | Cairenn | write an entire story in a single week |
| 22:19.31 | Fisker | come on guys check me out, i'm dancing, i'm dancing! |
| 22:19.59 | Thunder_Child | ~lart Fisker |
| 22:19.59 | purl | pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps Fisker |
| 22:20.20 | Thunder_Child | that dance pisses me off, they dont hop, they just slide to the side |
| 22:20.21 | Lopeppeppy | I have so many outlines, stories that I started but just never had any motivation to finish. This is motivation to finally *finish* one of them, at least. Worst it can do is suck. But it will be done. |
| 22:20.34 | Dagmar | It's about writing like you work for the Enquirer |
| 22:20.40 | Thunder_Child | which is hard to do on one wheel |
| 22:20.42 | Cairenn | huggles Lopeppeppy |
| 22:20.50 | Dagmar | Accuracy doesn't matter, facts don't matter, it's all about getting paid by the word and meeting deadlines |
| 22:21.05 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 22:21.07 | Cairenn | Dagmar: cynical much? |
| 22:21.20 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, hey, large group here. Who has had broken ribs and is willing to tell me graphically about how it felt, raise your hand? |
| 22:21.22 | foxlit | wrote 982 lines of C code. Does that count as a novel? |
| 22:21.28 | Dagmar | Cairenn: They banned clove cigarettes for sale in the US |
| 22:21.34 | ScytheBlade1 | foxlit: yes |
| 22:21.37 | Cairenn | Dagmar: ah |
| 22:21.37 | Dagmar | Overseas shipping is taking longer than expected. |
| 22:21.42 | Shirik | what kind of question is that Lopeppeppy o.o |
| 22:21.51 | ScytheBlade1 | For her book! |
| 22:21.51 | ScytheBlade1 | duh |
| 22:21.53 | Lopeppeppy | It's research, Shirik. You guys do it all the time. Me too. |
| 22:21.53 | Dagmar | Rest assured when I'm explaining to the police why all thsoe people really needed to die, this will figure in prominently. |
| 22:21.54 | ScytheBlade1 | novel whatever |
| 22:21.56 | ScytheBlade1 | "writing" |
| 22:22.16 | kd3 | is glad the only stuff he's addicted to is caffeine |
| 22:22.18 | Lopeppeppy | I've never had anything broken. *frown* I should go have some of that so I know what I'm talking about. |
| 22:22.27 | Dagmar | kd3: This isn't an addiction. |
| 22:22.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Hracken (n=ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 22:22.56 | alestane | Lopeppeppy: Um. |
| 22:22.59 | Lopeppeppy | It just makes him cranky. |
| 22:23.03 | Lopeppeppy | alestane, que? |
| 22:23.22 | Lopeppeppy | I don't even know anyone who has had a broken bone, I fail at researchings. |
| 22:23.22 | Dagmar | One of those damn special spices they put on the things has an effect that makes me give less of a damn about people wasting my air |
| 22:23.26 | alestane | [5:23pm] Lopeppeppy: I've never had anything broken. *frown* I should go have some of that so I know what I'm talking about. |
| 22:23.33 | bleeter | lol @ kline |
| 22:23.44 | Cairenn | bleeter: heh, that was special, wasn't it? |
| 22:23.54 | kd3 | points at announce.freenode.net |
| 22:23.55 | Cairenn | Lopeppeppy: you've never had /anything/ broken? |
| 22:24.03 | ScytheBlade1 | I've never had any bones broken either |
| 22:24.05 | Cairenn | hands Lopeppeppy a plate to smash |
| 22:24.08 | bleeter | Kraftman: aye |
| 22:24.11 | bleeter | bah |
| 22:24.12 | bleeter | kd3: |
| 22:24.14 | bleeter | aye |
| 22:24.14 | kd3 | lol |
| 22:24.16 | bleeter | fk |
| 22:24.30 | WobWork | Lopeppeppy: check out the LJ community little_details |
| 22:25.18 | Kraftman | :'( |
| 22:25.49 | Lopeppeppy | Oooh, Wob, I adore you |------------------------------| this much! |
| 22:26.03 | WobWork | huzzah! *stores the adoration in a box* |
| 22:26.35 | WobWork | Note, they do ask that you try to do research on Google and the like before asking, but that, imo, means the questions aren't stupid =) |
| 22:26.58 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah, I'm out there on google right now, the answer seems to be "pain level varies". |
| 22:27.03 | ScytheBlade1 | You know, on this monitor, that isn't a lot of adoration |
| 22:27.12 | Lopeppeppy | So I am deciding that it's okay if it hurts a ton right after it happens. *nod* |
| 22:27.52 | kd3 | yes |
| 22:27.56 | kd3 | broken bones hurt a lot |
| 22:28.05 | kd3 | unless the adrenaline's pounding too hard for you to realize |
| 22:28.14 | WobWork | broken ribs mean that it's difficult not to constantly hurt |
| 22:28.26 | WobWork | laughing, moving, -breathing- =: |
| 22:28.27 | WobWork | P |
| 22:28.41 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/bshit/disgusting.jpg |
| 22:29.02 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/bshit/1_homer.jpg |
| 22:29.09 | Lopeppeppy | I tore pulled a muscle once in my side when I had a chest cold, I remember that, so I was kind of kicking that up a notch. |
| 22:30.06 | WobWork | *BAM*? |
| 22:30.12 | *** join/#wowuidev ccox (n=ccox@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/CCox) |
| 22:30.20 | cogwheel | http://www.break.com/index/google-wave-meets-pulp-fiction.html |
| 22:30.25 | cogwheel | best google wave intro evar |
| 22:30.30 | cogwheel | nsfw |
| 22:31.21 | WobWork | hehe anything involving pulp fiction has to be, by definition |
| 22:31.35 | kd3 | hm. I think I'll rewatch that tonight |
| 22:31.52 | WobWork | cogwheel: although, did you see that pulp fiction remix? |
| 22:32.05 | Sarkp | i couldn't get into that movie, boring |
| 22:34.06 | Cairenn | ROFL |
| 22:34.24 | Lopeppeppy | I've never seen it myself. |
| 22:35.00 | batrick | anybody know what the latest news is on chrome for linux |
| 22:35.18 | Dagmar | It must be said that the Google Wave video is perfectly fine in your office if no one gets that upset about strong language. There is no nakedness that I've seen, but there is some Chris Cocker so YMMV. |
| 22:35.21 | kd3 | 's been using pre-built rpms for fedora |
| 22:35.42 | Lopeppeppy | Language is enough to not be safe for work. |
| 22:35.53 | kd3 | http://spot.fedorapeople.org/chromium/ |
| 22:35.56 | Shirik | lol cogwheel |
| 22:36.17 | Fisker | slaps cogwheel around a bit with a large trout |
| 22:36.22 | Fisker | it's so old Shirik |
| 22:36.27 | Dagmar | Well, there's definitely no titties in it, and I'm sitting here in the NOC by myself today so no one's going to get mad about the language |
| 22:36.32 | bleeter | rock on, spot |
| 22:36.40 | Dagmar | if anything ther'es a bunch of AV freaks who would be impressed with that video. :) |
| 22:37.07 | Cairenn | English, do you speak it mothafucka? |
| 22:37.13 | Shirik | you are so old Fisker |
| 22:37.32 | cogwheel | Fisker's older than his mother! |
| 22:38.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelo (n=chatzill@79-71-157-89.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 22:38.27 | Shirik | If I DC, then my battery broke |
| 22:38.35 | Shirik | ok not broke |
| 22:38.37 | Shirik | stupid Windows 7 |
| 22:38.50 | Shirik | Windows 7 was saying my battery was both at 0% and 100% |
| 22:39.34 | batrick | Should be topic quote for today: <@Shirik> stupid Windows |
| 22:39.39 | Fisker | oh u Shirik |
| 22:39.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 22:39.53 | Fisker | i has troubles btw |
| 22:39.56 | Shirik | I don't believe Windows is a good OS |
| 22:40.00 | Fisker | computer crashes ;( |
| 22:40.03 | Shirik | however it is my best option right now |
| 22:40.11 | Fisker | And all of them seem to be tied into some kind of memory issue |
| 22:40.16 | batrick | shirik did your nose just get bigger? |
| 22:40.16 | Dagmar | How do you know if your battery is full or empty? |
| 22:40.19 | Fisker | So i ran a memtest and it cleared 4 passes without error :/ |
| 22:40.22 | Dagmar | You've never opened it to see. |
| 22:40.56 | Dagmar | Fisker: Four _comprehensive_ passes? As in you didn't do anything more than boot it up and let it pick it's own testing? |
| 22:41.02 | Thunder_Child | i had the same thing Fisker, passed all the mem tests but it was still one stick bad out of 3 |
| 22:41.30 | Fisker | aww Thunder_Child |
| 22:41.33 | Shirik | batrick? |
| 22:41.53 | Fisker | Dagmar i couldn't choose any more tests the last time |
| 22:41.57 | Fisker | it has 9 tests |
| 22:42.02 | Dagmar | You let it run all nine then? |
| 22:42.05 | batrick | it was an allusion to pinochio (sp?) |
| 22:42.05 | batbot | batrick, Pinocchio. |
| 22:42.10 | Shirik | yes |
| 22:42.14 | Shirik | but how did I lie? |
| 22:42.17 | Dagmar | That's pretty wack then |
| 22:42.22 | batrick | forget it |
| 22:42.34 | Dagmar | Because honestly, I've had people bring me RAm they claimed memtest would pass and it didn't pass when I tested it |
| 22:42.54 | Fisker | Right now i'm thinking it could be a CPU problem |
| 22:42.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 22:43.01 | Fisker | Memory controller is integrated there anyways |
| 22:43.03 | Shirik | Thunder_Child / Fisker: Even memtest's developers are aware of this; they warn that, while memtest does everything it can to avoid caching, there is a possibility of caching breaking the test |
| 22:43.06 | Dagmar | It could be that or it could be a memmory controller problem |
| 22:43.08 | Fisker | so i can't even trust the result i guess |
| 22:43.19 | Shirik | that is, passing things that shouldn't pass |
| 22:43.25 | Shirik | that's why it does such strange patterns |
| 22:43.28 | Dagmar | ...but, you *can* go into the BIOS and loosen the timings a bit more |
| 22:43.31 | Shirik | to try to avoid caching algorithms |
| 22:44.03 | Fisker | I'm mostly afraid it's my SSD though :P |
| 22:44.05 | Dagmar | You know that 4-3-3-2 crap in there? Add one to all four of those timing numbers. |
| 22:44.12 | Fisker | Pretty sure the machine started acting up after my SSD got installed |
| 22:44.23 | Shirik | If your memory timings are 4-3-3-2, your memory is broken and needs to be replaced |
| 22:44.37 | Shirik | furthermore latencies don't affect caching at all |
| 22:44.38 | Dagmar | If it's your SSD when what kind of crashes are you having? |
| 22:44.59 | Fisker | it's pretty random actually |
| 22:45.04 | Dagmar | Shirik: So what. They have no problem f**king things up when they're set too short |
| 22:45.16 | Shirik | I thought you were saying that's why it passes |
| 22:45.30 | Shirik | Fisker: It's the anti-troll mechanism |
| 22:45.37 | Shirik | It detects your milk and kicks you off |
| 22:45.49 | Dagmar | Fisker: Is it a sudden disappearance of "teh eberything" followed by a POST beep? Does the machine simply stop working? Do you get a screen full of kernel oops text? The how matters |
| 22:46.24 | Fisker | It does bluescreen and a full memory dump |
| 22:46.31 | Fisker | No sudden restarts |
| 22:46.32 | Lopeppeppy | Fisker, darlin', computers are just random angsty beasts. They die random violent deaths for no reason we can ever ascertain. I'm sorry. They just do. *hug* |
| 22:46.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Pewpewarrows (n=Pewpewar@c-68-33-19-176.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:46.51 | Dagmar | Shirik: The only fault I know of with memtest86 is that it doesn't do a "write craxy random stuff everywhere" test, which is only seldom ever going to turn up anything but a broken controller afaik |
| 22:47.03 | Fisker | Most annoying thing is that you pretty much need a second computer to rule anything about |
| 22:47.09 | Shirik | I think that's one of the advanced tests now |
| 22:47.13 | Dagmar | Cool |
| 22:47.30 | Dagmar | I mean, so far I've still had it show every stick of RAM I've thrown at it what's known bad to be bad |
| 22:47.42 | Dagmar | One I did have to let the test run for two days, but it was enough |
| 22:47.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Riffage (n=nnscript@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:48.02 | Dagmar | The client was getting an error indicating ram issues about once a week |
| 22:48.38 | Dagmar | Fisker: The screen turns blue you say? It sounds like you might have Windows installed then |
| 22:48.53 | Fisker | ;3 |
| 22:49.02 | Fisker | So i just gotta install linux then? |
| 22:49.02 | Fisker | :D |
| 22:49.30 | Dagmar | Well, if you were running Linux you'd likely get a message indicating that the SSD or it's controller stopped responding |
| 22:49.38 | Dagmar | Windows isn't quite so forthcoming with that kind of info |
| 22:49.46 | ScytheBlade1 | My friend, back when he ran gentoo |
| 22:49.47 | Shirik | Fisker |
| 22:49.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Actually compiled gentoo with a bad stick of RAM |
| 22:49.54 | Shirik | every time I hit ctrl+scroll lock twice |
| 22:49.57 | Shirik | I get a bluescreen |
| 22:49.59 | Shirik | fix plox |
| 22:50.11 | ScytheBlade1 | And by bad, I mean memtest started spooling up tens of thousands of errors per second |
| 22:50.20 | Fisker | sounds like a kvm problem Shirik ;3 |
| 22:50.22 | ScytheBlade1 | System worked great |
| 22:50.33 | Shirik | nah not a kvm problem |
| 22:51.47 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1 knows! |
| 22:51.49 | Shirik | I bet |
| 22:51.50 | Shirik | he is uber |
| 22:52.06 | Fisker | Anyone know how far they are on punching over TCP/IP? |
| 22:52.14 | Fisker | well actually it should probably just be UDP |
| 22:52.22 | Fisker | don't want a 3-way handshake with a guy i'm about to punch |
| 22:52.45 | Shirik | anyway Fisker |
| 22:52.52 | Shirik | bluescreen says 0xE2 MANUALLY_INITIATED_CRASH |
| 22:52.54 | Shirik | halp :( |
| 22:52.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (n=ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 22:53.00 | Dagmar | Fisker: example: Oct 30 11:21:49 ammo kernel: ata1: hard resetting link and Oct 30 11:22:28 ammo kernel: sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled error code |
| 22:53.14 | Dagmar | Fisker: Those things would have mean Windows would freak right the hell out and bluescreen. |
| 22:53.20 | ScytheBlade1 | less ctrl+pausebreak |
| 22:53.31 | ScytheBlade1 | err |
| 22:53.31 | Dagmar | What caused them? Crap Seagate firmware causing the drive to shut down. |
| 22:53.32 | ScytheBlade1 | no |
| 22:53.37 | Fisker | awesome |
| 22:53.45 | ScytheBlade1 | ctrl+scroll! |
| 22:54.30 | Shirik | ScytheBlade1 |
| 22:54.33 | Shirik | I already said that lol |
| 22:54.58 | Dagmar | Offhand, I blame communism. |
| 22:55.14 | Dagmar | ...and the Democrat liberals. |
| 22:55.33 | Shirik | I blame Richard Nixon |
| 22:55.56 | ScytheBlade1 | what is the actual question? |
| 22:56.14 | Shirik | nothing, I was trolling Fisker |
| 22:56.21 | Shirik | (17:49:54) (@Shirik) every time I hit ctrl+scroll lock twice |
| 22:56.21 | Shirik | (17:49:56) (@Shirik) I get a bluescreen |
| 22:56.21 | Shirik | (17:49:58) (@Shirik) fix plox |
| 22:56.35 | Fisker | doesn't crash mine though :( |
| 22:56.41 | Dagmar | Does nothin here |
| 22:56.42 | Shirik | you need to l2registry |
| 22:56.55 | WobWork | well... |
| 22:57.02 | WobWork | don't hit ctrl-scroll lock twice? |
| 22:57.03 | ScytheBlade1 | You need to set a registry key |
| 22:57.08 | WobWork | Just sayin... |
| 22:57.11 | Shirik | HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE \SYSTEM \CurrentControlSet \Services \i8042prt \Parameters |
| 22:57.12 | Shirik | sets to 1 |
| 22:57.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Only for PS/2 devices |
| 22:57.20 | Shirik | DWORD 1 |
| 22:57.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Vista and later supports USB but has a different location for the key |
| 22:57.40 | ScytheBlade1 | err, 2k3 and later |
| 22:58.27 | Shirik | I believe they fixed that actually |
| 22:58.43 | Shirik | but 2k3 needs a special driver |
| 22:58.47 | Shirik | 2k8 works fine |
| 22:59.41 | Shirik | I shall go take a shower now |
| 22:59.43 | Shirik | and you shall like it |
| 22:59.58 | Lopeppeppy | Enjoy the showerings, smell nice afterward. |
| 23:02.51 | Shirik | hey does anyone have any experience with those home dry cleaning things? |
| 23:02.53 | Shirik | do they work? |
| 23:03.02 | Dagmar | lol |
| 23:03.08 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 23:03.21 | Dagmar | Easier and more effective to buy Febreeze |
| 23:03.33 | Thunder_Child | do you need dry cleaning that often Shirik/ |
| 23:03.38 | Dagmar | ...or just use Woolite on things which won't dissolve in water |
| 23:03.39 | Thunder_Child | s///?/ |
| 23:03.53 | Shirik | I would prefer to clean my suit before tomorrow; not necessary, but prefer |
| 23:04.20 | Thunder_Child | if you dont need to do it that often just take it in |
| 23:04.40 | Thunder_Child | and if you wait till the least minute....well...fail |
| 23:04.45 | Thunder_Child | last* |
| 23:05.03 | Shirik | you haven't really answered my question |
| 23:05.03 | Dagmar | Just take it to the 1-hour cleaners then |
| 23:05.14 | Shirik | wtf is a 1-hour cleaners |
| 23:05.20 | Dagmar | Home "dry cleaning" is pretty much going to be "spraying with anti-stink" |
| 23:05.27 | Thunder_Child | someone who cleans your stuff in one hour |
| 23:05.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper1 (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-057-247-030.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:05.30 | Dagmar | There's no 1-hour dry cleaners in your area? |
| 23:05.46 | Dagmar | You walk in, say "Can you do this in an hour" they say "Probably" you say "Okay great" |
| 23:05.49 | Thunder_Child | and yes Shirik, we somewhat did answer your quiestion |
| 23:06.00 | Thunder_Child | question* |
| 23:06.11 | Dagmar | Dry cleaning involves jsut as intensive a process as throwing clothes in the washer. They're jsut not submerged in _water_ |
| 23:07.02 | Lopeppeppy | Shirik, if there's no obvious "ook" on it, just toss it in a dryer on fluff for a minute or three to air it out |
| 23:07.50 | Dagmar | Yep |
| 23:08.04 | Dagmar | Then hang it while it's still hot |
| 23:08.15 | WobWork | or hang it in the bathroom |
| 23:08.22 | WobWork | and take a -really- steamy shower |
| 23:08.35 | Shirik | oh my showers are always hot and steamy |
| 23:08.36 | AbsolutRayne | My poor cat doesnt know what daylights savings time is. |
| 23:08.46 | AbsolutRayne | Hes all meowy and hungry bu its not 5pm yet :( |
| 23:08.54 | WobWork | "Sorry cat, your meal is arbitarily one hour later!" |
| 23:08.55 | Dagmar | AbsolutRayne: There's no daylight in space |
| 23:09.06 | Dagmar | Tell him that, see if he cares |
| 23:09.43 | AbsolutRayne | We feed him twice a day, and depending on when we feed him the second time, will change the time he wakes me up in the morning by crawling all over my face. |
| 23:09.54 | AbsolutRayne | So if we feed him about 5, he wakes us up at around 7-8 |
| 23:09.55 | Dagmar | heheh |
| 23:09.58 | AbsolutRayne | Furry Alarm Clock |
| 23:10.22 | WobWork | no snooze alarm =( |
| 23:10.23 | Lopeppeppy | Dude, feed him at 7 then! |
| 23:10.25 | kd3 | heh, my parents' cats do the same thing to my father |
| 23:10.38 | kd3 | like clockwork at the same time every morning |
| 23:10.41 | Lopeppeppy | I've very specifically trained my cat NOT to ever try to wake me up, omg I'd kill her. |
| 23:10.46 | kd3 | though it's funny that they never bother my mom |
| 23:11.00 | Arrowmaster | if you throw the alarm clock at the wall it goes into snooze |
| 23:11.06 | WobWork | kd3: anticat ingredients in the face mask? |
| 23:11.13 | kd3 | iunno |
| 23:11.13 | Shirik | rofl |
| 23:11.27 | WobWork | I'd imagine it'd go into "MRRRARARAROOOW!" myself |
| 23:13.49 | AbsolutRayne | I need him to get me up early lol |
| 23:14.11 | AbsolutRayne | I need to start getting used to being awake at a normal time, since I got my perminent resident status up here finally |
| 23:14.14 | AbsolutRayne | And I can start working |
| 23:14.19 | AbsolutRayne | Though im not going to until after XMas |
| 23:14.33 | WobWork | Where's "here"? |
| 23:14.37 | AbsolutRayne | Canada |
| 23:14.42 | WobWork | oo |
| 23:14.57 | AbsolutRayne | permanent* |
| 23:15.47 | AbsolutRayne | fires up Civ4 |
| 23:16.32 | Lopeppeppy | Wooooot, you've been working on that forever, Rayne! |
| 23:16.54 | AbsolutRayne | Yup! Got it last week :) |
| 23:17.15 | Thunder_Child | have fun AbsolutRayne, 'tis lots of |
| 23:17.15 | Lopeppeppy | That's excellent news. |
| 23:17.56 | WobWork | AbsolutRayne: You'll have to learn to spell properly now! =) |
| 23:18.05 | AbsolutRayne | WobWork: I know, right? |
| 23:18.07 | Thunder_Child | WobWork, huh? |
| 23:18.28 | AbsolutRayne | i r bahd spelur |
| 23:18.41 | Thunder_Child | whats that have to do with civ? |
| 23:18.43 | WobWork | Don't worry Thunder_Child, you're an American, we give you certain leeway =) |
| 23:19.20 | Thunder_Child | WobWork, it doesnt matter where i am from, i just suck at spelling |
| 23:19.30 | WobWork | Thunder_Child: nothing to do with Civ, but to do with living in Canada |
| 23:19.52 | Thunder_Child | WobWork, i lived in canada |
| 23:20.14 | Shirik | is so fresh and so clean clean |
| 23:20.19 | AbsolutRayne | Wow, theres a level 7 Barbarian City on this island O_o |
| 23:20.38 | Lopeppeppy | Oooh, fun. |
| 23:20.52 | Lopeppeppy | What are you getting dressed up for, Shirik? |
| 23:21.01 | Shirik | lol |
| 23:21.07 | Shirik | I need to get dressed up like this entire week |
| 23:21.15 | Shirik | for a different occasion each day |
| 23:21.26 | Shirik | monday is an SAE conference I need to attend in San Antonio |
| 23:21.33 | Lopeppeppy | Is this some sort of advanced torture thing? |
| 23:21.35 | Shirik | tuesday is Career Fair at my school |
| 23:21.42 | Shirik | wednesday is an IEEE conference I need to attend |
| 23:21.46 | Sarkp | Giants fall to Eagles, 40-17 |
| 23:21.50 | Sarkp | WTF |
| 23:21.55 | Shirik | thursday is a meeting with GM |
| 23:21.56 | AbsolutRayne | Am I a bad person for conquering someone with Modern Tanks, when they only have Riflemen? :( |
| 23:22.05 | Shirik | friday I have off, but I might dress off just because |
| 23:22.12 | Shirik | dress up* |
| 23:22.14 | Lopeppeppy | Nah, kick their ass, AbsolutRayne. |
| 23:22.20 | Lopeppeppy | Shirik, that's masochism. |
| 23:22.30 | Shirik | the SAE conference is the only thing I'm worried about |
| 23:22.36 | Dagmar | They have some guns. |
| 23:22.43 | Dagmar | It's fair enough. |
| 23:22.46 | WobWork | Shirik: http://survivingtheworld.net/Lesson477.html |
| 23:22.58 | Shirik | lol. |
| 23:23.06 | Shirik | Actually I honestly don't know why I'm going to the Job fair |
| 23:23.12 | Shirik | I think I'm just going to say hi to my employers |
| 23:23.24 | Shirik | I'm probably going to talk to others just to add competition |
| 23:23.30 | Shirik | but I really like what I already have lined up |
| 23:23.30 | Lopeppeppy | Because every job experience is a good experience? You may meet your next employers. |
| 23:23.49 | Dagmar | Going to the job fair might get you a raise |
| 23:23.58 | Shirik | I'm kinda curious to see what Lockheed Martin says different from last year, now that I have Boeing on my resume |
| 23:25.59 | Thunder_Child | go go skunk works! |
| 23:25.59 | Lopeppeppy | See? Never hurts to have these little discussions, dear. |
| 23:26.05 | Adys | Shirik: how do I access my real partitions from vbox? |
| 23:26.13 | Shirik | I don't use vbox |
| 23:26.39 | Arrowmaster | create a shared folder |
| 23:26.58 | Adys | thanks i see it |
| 23:27.25 | Adys | now? |
| 23:27.35 | Arrowmaster | windows guest? |
| 23:27.44 | Adys | linux host, windows client |
| 23:27.45 | WobWork | I wonder if Boeing have an internal gossip site called BoeingBoeing |
| 23:27.59 | Arrowmaster | got the guest software installed in windows? |
| 23:28.05 | Adys | guest software? |
| 23:28.08 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 23:28.11 | Adys | link? |
| 23:28.27 | Arrowmaster | host-d |
| 23:28.33 | Shirik | WobWork >< |
| 23:28.34 | Shirik | bad |
| 23:28.48 | Adys | Arrowmaster: SEX |
| 23:29.04 | Shirik | wait Adys |
| 23:29.07 | Shirik | what is this vbox for? |
| 23:29.15 | Adys | wine testsuite mostly |
| 23:29.15 | Arrowmaster | when you get that installed youll need to open network neighbourhood and figure out how to get to the entire network page |
| 23:29.24 | Shirik | Arrowmaster |
| 23:29.25 | Shirik | die |
| 23:29.29 | Shirik | there is no "u" in neighbor |
| 23:29.33 | Arrowmaster | whatever |
| 23:29.33 | Adys | there is |
| 23:29.35 | Shirik | no |
| 23:29.38 | Adys | there |
| 23:29.39 | Adys | fucking |
| 23:29.39 | Adys | is |
| 23:29.41 | Shirik | no |
| 23:29.42 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 23:29.44 | WobWork | There totally is |
| 23:29.45 | Adys | yes |
| 23:29.49 | Adys | see |
| 23:29.50 | Shirik | we aren't in some backwards country |
| 23:29.52 | Adys | WobWork agrees with me |
| 23:29.55 | Adys | hes right |
| 23:29.56 | WobWork | oh yes you are |
| 23:30.04 | WobWork | You still use IMPERIAL |
| 23:30.09 | Shirik | yes |
| 23:30.11 | WobWork | how much -further- backwards can you get? |
| 23:30.11 | Adys | ~WobWork++ |
| 23:30.11 | Thunder_Child | it's Shirik's favourite complaint |
| 23:30.14 | Shirik | because we value backwards compatibility |
| 23:30.15 | Arrowmaster | WobWork is from a prison colony, he cant be trusted |
| 23:30.24 | WobWork | oh we can |
| 23:30.29 | WobWork | just not with your valuables |
| 23:30.41 | WobWork | takes your booty. |
| 23:31.09 | WobWork | Shirik: Even Microsoft finally realised how terrible constant backwards compatibility was =P |
| 23:31.09 | Shirik | successfully derails another thread |
| 23:31.50 | Shirik | they did? |
| 23:31.50 | Shirik | they still seem to support most |
| 23:31.50 | WobWork | I believe they stopped making it a limiting factor =P |
| 23:32.05 | Lopeppeppy | How did we get back to bashing microsloth again? |
| 23:32.09 | Lopeppeppy | It's only been a few hours. |
| 23:32.13 | WobWork | I'm not bashing! |
| 23:32.19 | WobWork | well |
| 23:32.22 | WobWork | I'm bashing America =) |
| 23:32.22 | Shirik | because Adys and WobWork won't agree there is no "u" in neighbor |
| 23:32.29 | Arrowmaster | how can we not get back to bashing microsoft every few hours? |
| 23:32.30 | Shirik | and thus America == Microsoft |
| 23:32.39 | Shirik | we could bash Linus every few hours |
| 23:32.39 | WobWork | Well, I agree there's no 'u' in neighbor |
| 23:32.44 | Shirik | it would probably be more productive |
| 23:32.47 | WobWork | because that's a misspelling of the word "neighbour" |
| 23:32.58 | Shirik | neighbor (sp?) |
| 23:32.58 | batbot | Shirik, neighbor is correct. |
| 23:33.01 | Shirik | OWNED |
| 23:33.06 | WobWork | neighbour (sp?) |
| 23:33.07 | batbot | WobWork, neighbor. |
| 23:33.11 | Shirik | DOUBLE OWNED |
| 23:33.12 | Arrowmaster | haha |
| 23:33.15 | WobWork | clearly batbot is incorrect =P |
| 23:33.29 | WobWork | or perhaps it's BATBOUT |
| 23:33.49 | Arrowmaster | batbout (sp?) |
| 23:33.49 | batbot | Arrowmaster, bat bout, bat-bout. |
| 23:34.03 | Shirik | I think you confused him :P |
| 23:34.09 | Shirik | wtf is a bout |
| 23:34.14 | Shirik | oh that's like a fight or something |
| 23:34.15 | Spellshaper1 | both are correct.. one is american english, the other uk english.. at least i think so |
| 23:34.18 | Iriel | A round in boxing? |
| 23:34.53 | Iriel | Shirik: I think you're merely unable to reconcile that the dictionary you most commonly use has several words that the founders of the US didn't spell correctly. |
| 23:35.09 | Iriel | ColoUr, ArmoUr, NeighboUr |
| 23:35.51 | Shirik | I think you're unable to reconcile that the US created English, and you stole it from us because you were being crybabies about losing the revolutionary war |
| 23:35.53 | Arrowmaster | sorry bot the US alphabet only has 25 letters |
| 23:37.19 | Iriel | Shirik: Is that what they're teaching in US history these days? |
| 23:37.24 | Shirik | :D |
| 23:37.54 | ScytheBlade1 | lol @ batbout |
| 23:38.06 | ScytheBlade1 | That's amazing |
| 23:38.42 | Adys | Arrowmaster: ok i got the guest software installed |
| 23:39.00 | WobWork | haha |
| 23:39.04 | WobWork | the Americans don't speak English |
| 23:39.07 | WobWork | what a silly claim =) |
| 23:39.17 | kd3 | no. we speak 'merican |
| 23:39.20 | ScytheBlade1 | hey now, I resemble that remark |
| 23:39.47 | Shirik | what does it mean if, in Wave, everything is highlighted? |
| 23:39.57 | Shirik | more specifically, what does the highlight mean? |
| 23:39.58 | Arrowmaster | Adys: can you navigate to the entire network window? |
| 23:40.01 | Adys | Shirik: means someone changed it |
| 23:40.03 | ScytheBlade1 | you pressed ctrl+a? |
| 23:40.04 | Adys | added it likely |
| 23:40.14 | bleeter | WobWork: did you see that merkin tell safran in Race Relations to speak english? |
| 23:40.25 | mikma | i wonder wshere have i seen such a claim before.. "americans speaks american" |
| 23:40.25 | bleeter | WobWork: I larfed so fkn hard, 'coz he had all that makeup on |
| 23:40.28 | WobWork | hehe |
| 23:40.32 | Adys | Arrowmaster: umm where? |
| 23:40.34 | mikma | lolnooblollol |
| 23:40.44 | Sarkp | http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2009/october/ensidia_immortality.jpg |
| 23:40.55 | bleeter | kd3: not 'merican, merkin |
| 23:40.57 | bleeter | doh |
| 23:41.00 | Arrowmaster | Adys: right click my network places and select explore |
| 23:41.20 | Arrowmaster | see entire network? |
| 23:41.21 | Shirik | not added Adys |
| 23:41.24 | Shirik | definitely was there before |
| 23:41.27 | Shirik | but ok |
| 23:42.03 | Adys | Shirik: likely someone moved/removed it then |
| 23:42.05 | Adys | or pasted on it |
| 23:42.16 | Arrowmaster | then find virtualbox shared folders and right click and make a shortcut to it on your desktop |
| 23:42.16 | Adys | Arrowmaster: uhh |
| 23:42.21 | Adys | (Im on XP btw) |
| 23:42.21 | Arrowmaster | maybe you need to restart |
| 23:42.32 | Adys | did |
| 23:42.32 | Arrowmaster | so am i |
| 23:42.41 | Arrowmaster | do you have my network places on your desktop? |
| 23:42.48 | Adys | only trash |
| 23:43.23 | Arrowmaster | start menu, my network places, right click it and explorer |
| 23:43.29 | Arrowmaster | explore |
| 23:43.53 | Lopeppeppy | Ugh, continuity errors already, what the hell!!!! |
| 23:44.02 | Lopeppeppy | hates continuity. Plot particles should fix everything! |
| 23:44.27 | Arrowmaster | Adys: still searching? |
| 23:45.11 | Shirik | Lopeppeppy: Find some wormholes |
| 23:45.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Ginji (n=Ginji@cc624207-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 23:46.21 | Shirik | goes to publix |
| 23:46.30 | Adys | Arrowmaster: ya sex |
| 23:46.32 | Adys | sec. |
| 23:47.22 | Thunder_Child | interesting slip of the tounge |
| 23:47.30 | Thunder_Child | tongue* |
| 23:47.43 | Lopeppeppy | There are no wormholes, this isn't a tech world. |
| 23:47.59 | Ginji | I've seen plenty of worm holes |
| 23:48.08 | Adys | Ive seen plenty of holes |
| 23:48.58 | Adys | Arrowmaster: ok so er |
| 23:49.23 | Adys | I have network connections menu item |
| 23:49.27 | Adys | but no my network places |
| 23:49.33 | Arrowmaster | .... |
| 23:49.44 | Arrowmaster | ok |
| 23:50.04 | Arrowmaster | entirely wrong window |
| 23:50.15 | Adys | i found it |
| 23:50.20 | Adys | its empty |
| 23:50.26 | Arrowmaster | good |
| 23:50.33 | Arrowmaster | now make sure you are in explore view |
| 23:50.40 | Adys | yeah |
| 23:51.07 | Arrowmaster | you should see entire network in the explore folders side panel |
| 23:51.16 | Adys | er |
| 23:51.34 | Dagmar | You are seriously having trouble with the windows network browser? |
| 23:51.36 | Arrowmaster | you are using an english version of xp right? |
| 23:51.38 | Adys | I have Local Area Connection |
| 23:51.44 | Adys | in Network Connections |
| 23:51.51 | Adys | My Network Places is empty |
| 23:51.53 | Adys | and yeah |
| 23:51.54 | Arrowmaster | network connections is wrong |
| 23:52.12 | Adys | Dagmar: i have troubles with windows |
| 23:52.14 | Arrowmaster | very top, view, explorer bar, folders |
| 23:52.23 | Arrowmaster | CLICK IT |
| 23:52.31 | Adys | got it |
| 23:52.31 | Dagmar | Say "Screw this". File, Run, \\ip.ip.ip.ip clicky |
| 23:52.36 | Adys | I love you |
| 23:52.37 | Adys | found it |
| 23:52.49 | Arrowmaster | do you see virtualbox shared folders now? |
| 23:52.56 | Adys | yes |
| 23:52.59 | Arrowmaster | right click it |
| 23:53.02 | Ginji | I usually just hit ALT+D instead of using the run window |
| 23:53.13 | Arrowmaster | create shortcut |
| 23:53.19 | Adys | its frozen. |
| 23:54.58 | Adys | Arrowmaster: is it normal to be godslow? |
| 23:55.05 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 23:56.08 | Adys | got it |
| 23:56.10 | Adys | its copying |
| 23:56.11 | Adys | i love you |
