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| 00:06.29 | tem | Shirik, ping |
| 00:07.56 | Shirik | ? |
| 00:07.59 | Shirik | what do you want |
| 00:08.14 | tem | Why does this segfault on IA-64, but runs fine on IA-32? |
| 00:08.16 | tem | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:08.16 | tem | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:08.16 | tem | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:08.23 | Shirik | Because |
| 00:08.26 | Shirik | you're using C |
| 00:08.40 | tem | and C doesn't do 64 bit |
| 00:08.43 | tem | lol awesome |
| 00:08.47 | Shirik | Are you sure you mean IA-64? |
| 00:08.51 | tem | positive |
| 00:08.57 | Shirik | Itanium? |
| 00:09.25 | tem | dunno |
| 00:09.28 | *** join/#wowuidev ColinT (n=ColinT@69.11.97.130) |
| 00:09.31 | tem | it's a "C Puzzle" that I couldn't work out |
| 00:09.32 | Shirik | what chip are you testing this on |
| 00:09.33 | Dagmar | Your compiler is misbehaving or something |
| 00:10.07 | Shirik | If they truly mean IA-64, then it's probably because malloc is providing unaligned memory |
| 00:10.21 | Shirik | However, almost everyone that says IA-64 doesn't actually mean IA-64 |
| 00:10.37 | tem | well I dunno in this case |
| 00:10.46 | tem | I really wish this guy posted the answers to his puzzles |
| 00:10.57 | tem | there's not hint for this one either to give more context |
| 00:11.00 | tem | oh well |
| 00:11.21 | Shirik | It's a flawed question |
| 00:11.22 | Shirik | tbh |
| 00:11.25 | Shirik | if my answer is correct |
| 00:11.38 | ccox | hmm, somewhere, someone got the "stop the fires" quest, and is passing it around |
| 00:11.43 | Shirik | Which I amwilling to bet it is |
| 00:11.53 | ccox | which is odd, since the hallows end event hasn't started yet |
| 00:11.56 | Shirik | That being said, this is why I hate how Linux calls every single GPF a "segfault" |
| 00:12.00 | Shirik | Unix* |
| 00:12.06 | Dagmar | ccox: They probably had it from last year |
| 00:12.12 | ccox | possibly |
| 00:12.38 | Dagmar | Considering I just dumped some of the holiday events from last year off one of my alts, that's almost certainly how they got it |
| 00:12.46 | ccox | Shirik - competent C runtimes align allocated memory to pointer size boundaries or vector size boundaries |
| 00:13.00 | Shirik | right |
| 00:13.04 | tem | ccox, My level 15 bank alt still has the hallow's end quest from the first year it ran |
| 00:13.09 | Shirik | which is why I was going to the "flawed question" argument |
| 00:13.13 | ccox | but yes, if you don't check the alignment of malloc, you're doin it wrong |
| 00:13.24 | tem | shrug |
| 00:13.29 | tem | that's what new is for imo |
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| 00:13.38 | ccox | and if you're smart, you use "new" |
| 00:13.41 | Shirik | C++ doesn't guarantee alignment either ) |
| 00:13.41 | Shirik | :) |
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| 00:13.43 | Shirik | does it? |
| 00:14.02 | ccox | yes, it does |
| 00:14.02 | tem | if I ever find myself absolutely needing to use ANSI C, I'm going to take a serious look at my life |
| 00:14.02 | ccox | because you allocate based on a type |
| 00:14.20 | Shirik | I don't think so, but unfortunately I left TC++PL at school |
| 00:14.29 | ccox | new long[256] -- the result had better be aligned for longs |
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| 00:14.39 | Shirik | says who? |
| 00:14.41 | Lopeppeppy | P.S. Sweeny Todd kicks ass. |
| 00:14.43 | Shirik | Any decent runtime SHOULD |
| 00:14.50 | Shirik | but there's nothing in the standard that guarantees it |
| 00:14.56 | Dagmar | Lopeppeppy: Brother and sister. *shudder* |
| 00:15.07 | Lopeppeppy | Sister? Hmm? |
| 00:15.11 | Dagmar | Lopeppeppy: Yep |
| 00:15.24 | Dagmar | Lopeppeppy: The young guy who comes back on the boat with Sweeney Todd is actually his sone |
| 00:15.27 | Dagmar | He doesn't know it |
| 00:15.32 | tem | SHIIIIIIRIIIIIK, Minion is freezing when I search D*: |
| 00:15.33 | Dagmar | s/sone/son/; |
| 00:15.38 | ccox | new has to guarantee alignement, especiallyl on the array form |
| 00:15.42 | Lopeppeppy | ? |
| 00:15.46 | Dagmar | Lopeppeppy: It's a play for which there is no happy ending for anyone |
| 00:15.54 | Lopeppeppy | I've never heard that aspect of the fairy tale, the son thing. |
| 00:16.09 | Shirik | 3.7.3.1 The pointer returned shall be suitably aligned so that it can be converted to a pointer of any complete object type and then used to access the object or array in the storage allocated (until the storage is explicitly deallocated by a call to a corresponding deallocation function). |
| 00:16.11 | Lopeppeppy | I just like the gore without being actually scary. I love scary movies, but um... I don't need the nightmares. |
| 00:16.13 | Shirik | ok then |
| 00:16.28 | Dagmar | Lopeppeppy: You'd probaby like Zombieland then |
| 00:16.46 | Dagmar | ...other than possibly you might start having nightmares about zombies who can actually run at full speed. |
| 00:17.01 | Shirik | tem: Take a thread dump |
| 00:17.28 | Lopeppeppy | I might go see it on Sunday, Dagmar. |
| 00:17.33 | Dagmar | Lopeppeppy: It's hilarious |
| 00:17.45 | tem | Shirik, sigh now I can't reproduce the freeze |
| 00:17.56 | tem | did it to me twice in a row until I go for the debug... |
| 00:18.04 | Dagmar | Shirik: Watch it be a "you didn't check that malloc returned something" issue |
| 00:18.21 | Shirik | well then the question wouldn't say it would work on 32-bit system |
| 00:18.30 | Dagmar | 'cuz the code looks kosher to my limited knowledge of C |
| 00:18.31 | Shirik | it still can be misalignment. malloc() can't possibly guarantee alignment |
| 00:18.38 | Shirik | it has no idea what the data type is |
| 00:18.45 | Shirik | C++ benefits from knowing what data type it's allocating |
| 00:20.15 | Lopeppeppy | I think Sweeny Todd is a hoot too. |
| 00:20.23 | Dagmar | Oh ho |
| 00:20.30 | Dagmar | "But this is bad practice: it is redundant under the C standard, as noted above; and moreover, putting in a cast may mask failure to include the header, stdlib.h, in which the prototype for malloc is found. In the absence of a prototype for malloc, the C compiler will assume that malloc returns an int, and will issue a warning in a context such as the above . provided the error is not masked by a cast. (A cast says, in effect, "Don't warn me, I know |
| 00:21.03 | tem | Shirik, "Error: Could not create directories in required path for..." what gives? |
| 00:21.22 | tem | I swear you built in random ass errors just for me |
| 00:22.37 | Shirik | yes |
| 00:22.41 | Shirik | It looksfor you to log in |
| 00:23.17 | Shirik | and then sends out random failures |
| 00:23.20 | Shirik | give me logs! |
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| 00:59.02 | batrick | Firestarter: When this talent is triggered, it makes the next Flamestrike cost no mana in addition to being instant. |
| 00:59.05 | batrick | finally. |
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| 01:08.28 | mikma | http://grab.orsm.net/update20091015/russian_big_brother.wmv <- :D |
| 01:11.45 | mikma | http://www.natca.org/flight-explorer/united-states.aspx |
| 01:15.15 | mikma | http://www.geekologie.com/2009/10/coool_earth_and_jupiter_in_the.php |
| 01:15.50 | kdtresh | http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~chris/humour/swf/fight3.swf |
| 01:15.53 | batrick | Anywhere I can look to see what the base mana is for a level 80 mage? |
| 01:17.14 | NightHawkTheSane | ask a mage to get naked for you? |
| 01:18.05 | Sesshu| | nobody wants to get neked for him |
| 01:18.48 | batrick | wowwiki to the rescue |
| 01:21.37 | Dagmar | PTR |
| 01:21.49 | Dagmar | THat is, assuming they've still got premades enabled |
| 01:22.05 | batrick | i don't have an active account atm :P |
| 01:22.14 | batrick | i'm merely curious looking at mage builds with the new changes |
| 01:22.24 | batrick | the firestarter change is pretty big |
| 01:22.39 | batrick | I've been trying to come up with a viable fire heavy elementalist build for pvp |
| 01:46.34 | Aqua | bah i have the wierdest two bugs that keep cropping up |
| 01:47.03 | Sesshu| | :( |
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| 01:56.07 | Bruners | Aqua: anything new? |
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| 02:11.12 | bleeter | turn down your audio and check out http://www.collegehumor.com/article:1792877 |
| 02:11.35 | NightHawkTheSane | did they make the enchants from kara guaranateed drops? |
| 02:12.18 | Lopeppeppy | That would be funny |
| 02:15.25 | bleeter | some of those nickleback vandalisms are funny |
| 02:16.15 | Lopeppeppy | ? |
| 02:18.33 | bleeter | my link |
| 02:18.45 | bleeter | a history of every vandalism done to the nickleback wikipedia page |
| 02:18.58 | bleeter | *an alleged |
| 02:35.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Lukian (n=lukian@203.123.90.21) |
| 02:38.00 | Thunder_Child | is it bad that i can not remember what alt professions are? |
| 02:38.08 | Thunder_Child | my alt* |
| 02:38.27 | tem | sigh |
| 02:38.41 | tem | every time I try to use gimp, I just feel like "This isn't really photoshop" |
| 02:38.43 | tem | and get frustrated |
| 02:38.54 | tem | I don't know where things are |
| 02:39.04 | Thunder_Child | so use PS |
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| 02:40.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@124.170.157.210) |
| 02:41.28 | bleeter | or use that build of gimp that puts everything in a PS UI |
| 02:42.02 | olafski | there is one? awesome |
| 02:42.14 | Thunder_Child | or, just use PS |
| 02:42.15 | olafski | whenever I use linux and gimp I'm annoyed by the many windows |
| 02:42.23 | Wobin | hm, what age do we teach kids numbers and letters? |
| 02:42.27 | olafski | much better idea still I guess thunder_child :P |
| 02:42.38 | Bruners | Wobin: the faster the better |
| 02:43.07 | Thunder_Child | olafski, i am always amused when someone spends so much time make A look like B instead of using B |
| 02:43.16 | olafski | :) |
| 02:43.17 | kd3 | grrr |
| 02:43.26 | kd3 | it's too damn cold for mid october |
| 02:43.36 | tem | bleeter, I didn't know such a thing existed! |
| 02:43.38 | Thunder_Child | i hate you kd3, i want your cold |
| 02:43.52 | olafski | I dislike linux quite a bit thunder_child.. but I still intend to switch someday on my 2nd pc, I will make it act as much like my current windows as I can |
| 02:44.02 | Wobin | Shirik, That article about the JotP |
| 02:44.08 | Wobin | he didn't -deny- them a license |
| 02:44.23 | Wobin | he merely said he would not issue one for them, and suggested another JotP to go to |
| 02:44.30 | Thunder_Child | olafski, then why bother switching? |
| 02:44.32 | Shirik | it's still stupid |
| 02:44.35 | Wobin | oh yes |
| 02:44.46 | Wobin | It's akin to the pharmacist refusing to sell the Pill |
| 02:44.46 | Adys | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:44.46 | Adys | [05:43:16] <kd3> it's too damn cold for mid october |
| 02:44.53 | Adys | kd3: i stopped using aircon two days ago |
| 02:44.56 | olafski | thunder_child: I want hardlinks (or was it soft links?) and software raid 5 |
| 02:45.28 | Wobin | but what most of the articles on that topic are missing is that they weren't -stopped- from getting a license |
| 02:45.46 | Thunder_Child | olafski, you can VM the first part...and you may be able to the second part, not sure about that |
| 02:45.55 | Wobin | just like all journalism =P |
| 02:46.05 | olafski | VM? how oO |
| 02:46.12 | Thunder_Child | vmware |
| 02:46.19 | Thunder_Child | parrallels |
| 02:46.24 | Thunder_Child | which i cant spell |
| 02:46.28 | Thunder_Child | ever for some reason |
| 02:46.33 | olafski | yes.. but why would I simulate such a core functionality |
| 02:46.42 | Wobin | parallels? |
| 02:46.51 | Thunder_Child | i dunno, because you hate linux? |
| 02:46.54 | olafski | :) |
| 02:46.58 | olafski | good point |
| 02:47.20 | Thunder_Child | yes Wobin, i bow to your awesome spellingness |
| 02:47.54 | olafski | I actually have an ubuntu VM at the moment to host my rails applications |
| 02:50.25 | olafski | think I'll switch anyway, since I do want to know a couple of things about the stuff I dislike |
| 02:50.42 | olafski | not while my gf still uses that pc to play wow on though |
| 02:51.26 | tem | fuck gimp |
| 02:51.30 | tem | I'm tired of fighting it |
| 02:52.31 | *** join/#wowuidev mpdelbuono (n=mpdelbuo@heresiarchguild.com) |
| 02:52.37 | tem | sigh |
| 02:52.43 | tem | photoshop doesn't have a cheap version anymore |
| 02:52.48 | mpdelbuono | sure they do |
| 02:52.50 | mpdelbuono | are you a student? |
| 02:52.54 | tem | I am! |
| 02:52.59 | mpdelbuono | You can get it like 80% off |
| 02:53.07 | tem | how? |
| 02:53.25 | mpdelbuono | I got photoshop extended for $200, which is normally $1000 |
| 02:53.31 | mpdelbuono | I think they also do it for the normal version |
| 02:53.53 | bleeter | tem: I can't recall the name of it |
| 02:54.00 | tem | bleeter, Gimpshop |
| 02:54.05 | tem | also GimPhoto |
| 02:54.09 | bleeter | ah yeah that'd be it, or that |
| 02:54.14 | Shirik | http://www.academicsuperstore.com/products/Adobe/Photoshop+Extended/961155 |
| 02:54.20 | tem | both completely failed to rid of of my I hate gimpness |
| 02:54.31 | bleeter | I'm messing with the Nickelback WP article *whistles innocently* |
| 02:54.41 | mikma | tem: take off your gimp-suit |
| 02:54.52 | mikma | bleeter: wryyyyyyyy |
| 02:55.18 | bleeter | personally I hate photoshop and preferred deluxe paint |
| 02:55.20 | bleeter | but there ya go |
| 02:55.48 | bleeter | mikma: I added http://www.abc.net.au/myfavouritealbum/celebrities/tism.htm to the nickelback wp criticism section |
| 02:55.49 | Thunder_Child | next you're going to like MS paint more |
| 02:55.54 | Wobin | paint.net? |
| 02:55.54 | bleeter | filed it under 'praise |
| 02:56.09 | Wobin | I've never used it, but I've heard it's decent |
| 02:56.20 | mikma | bleeter: why do people hate dickelback so much? |
| 02:56.32 | bleeter | mikma: cuz they suck doh |
| 02:56.33 | Wobin | cause they suck |
| 02:56.37 | bleeter | qed |
| 02:56.53 | Shirik | yeah it doesn't look like they sell the non-extended version anymore tem :( |
| 02:56.54 | Wobin | He like sounds like he sings through a vocoder |
| 02:57.01 | Wobin | and it's -terrible- |
| 02:57.15 | mikma | they sell billions of albums and they suck.... oooookay |
| 02:57.52 | Wobin | ... so do the backstreet boys |
| 02:58.02 | Wobin | so does miley cyrus |
| 02:58.06 | tem | Shirik, *shrug* I'm not really interested in getting something shipped to me |
| 02:58.11 | Shirik | :( |
| 02:58.11 | Wobin | it does not mean they -don't- suck |
| 02:58.30 | kd3 | wtfs at this build's changes |
| 02:58.49 | bleeter | mikma: witness the portugal incident. they suck. |
| 02:58.52 | tem | oh man |
| 02:58.56 | tem | the mage art is horrible |
| 02:59.35 | bleeter | Thunder_Child: was MS Paint even around back then? |
| 02:59.39 | mikma | wobin: one kazillion buyers cant be wrong |
| 02:59.55 | Thunder_Child | bleeter, there was MS paint in 3.1 iirc |
| 03:00.05 | Wobin | mikma, Oh yes they can |
| 03:00.14 | Wobin | They can be totally utterly wrong |
| 03:00.24 | mikma | prove it |
| 03:00.24 | Wobin | (in the head) |
| 03:00.28 | Wobin | I don't have to |
| 03:00.36 | Wobin | It's your responsiblity to prove they're right |
| 03:00.45 | Wobin | so |
| 03:00.46 | Wobin | prove it |
| 03:00.52 | tem | Top-level helm and shoulder faction-related enchants are now available as Bind-on-Account items that do not require any faction to use once purchased (they still require the appropriate faction level to purchase). |
| 03:00.54 | tem | roflcopter |
| 03:01.01 | bleeter | Thunder_Child: windows 1 was '85, deluxe paint '84 |
| 03:01.20 | mikma | ~google nickelback album sales |
| 03:01.32 | mikma | hits purl |
| 03:01.32 | bleeter | hmm |
| 03:01.38 | bleeter | ok, both 85 fair nuff |
| 03:01.57 | mikma | DP2 = awesome |
| 03:02.14 | Dagmar | Windows 1 was sad |
| 03:02.18 | Wobin | hehe |
| 03:02.19 | Wobin | http://media.www.westerncourier.com/media/storage/paper650/news/2008/02/13/TheEdge/Nickelback.Billboard.Poison.Or.ChartTopping.Delight-3206932.shtml |
| 03:02.21 | Dagmar | Heck, even 2.0 was sad |
| 03:02.32 | Dagmar | GEOS on the Commodore 64 had more functionality. |
| 03:02.49 | bleeter | painting in 3 was fairly sad, too, compared to amigas |
| 03:03.14 | kd3 | whee; xp rewards are now listed in quests... but they pulled rep rewards? |
| 03:03.16 | Wobin | rofl |
| 03:03.20 | Wobin | I love the internet \ |
| 03:03.21 | Wobin | "Chad maybe good looking, but he's rubbish in bed - take it from someone that knows!!!! |
| 03:03.22 | Wobin | And kissing him- like making out with a washer/dryer!" |
| 03:04.18 | bleeter | kd3: probably just 'swapped' what that part of the data was for, deciding XP more useful overall |
| 03:04.19 | Wobin | in any case |
| 03:04.29 | Wobin | Musically speaking, Nickleback's music is -terrible- |
| 03:04.32 | bleeter | tho honestly, should be XP up to MAXLEVEL, then REP at MAXLEVEL |
| 03:04.35 | Wobin | badly written, badly produced |
| 03:04.53 | Wobin | It sounds like they hooked up the autotuner to the cement mixer |
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| 03:05.07 | Wobin | and all the music sounds the same |
| 03:05.16 | mikma | wobin: no minute as a wise man..? or wtf evef |
| 03:05.18 | Wobin | (which is problematic for a lot of modern music) |
| 03:05.29 | Dagmar | That's unfamiliarity with the genre |
| 03:05.36 | Dagmar | Surely you don't think all asians actually look the same |
| 03:05.39 | Dagmar | Same deal. |
| 03:05.41 | Wobin | We do! |
| 03:05.47 | Wobin | sorry |
| 03:05.53 | Wobin | All of Nickleback's music sounds the same |
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| 03:05.58 | Wobin | as each of their other songs |
| 03:06.10 | Dagmar | No more than anyone else in that genre |
| 03:06.10 | mikma | wobin: hney dickelback-hater |
| 03:06.19 | Wobin | shrugs |
| 03:06.25 | Wobin | Originality is clearly overrated |
| 03:06.30 | Dagmar | I don't care for 'em but I can at least tell they're not sucking that much |
| 03:06.36 | mikma | wobin: i dare you to find the comparison of two dickelbazck songs |
| 03:06.41 | bleeter | Dagmar: which genre? |
| 03:06.49 | bleeter | didn't realise Suck was a genre |
| 03:06.52 | Wobin | mikma, why are you calling them dickleback if you luuuurve them so much |
| 03:07.03 | mikma | they were pretty much 1:1 with different lyrics |
| 03:07.10 | mikma | wobin: i hate them |
| 03:07.19 | Dagmar | bleeter: "Emo bullshit" but naming genres is only useful for A&R pinheads |
| 03:07.20 | Wobin | suuure |
| 03:07.28 | Wobin | I bet you sekritly listen to them all the time |
| 03:07.34 | mikma | and masturbate |
| 03:07.37 | Wobin | yeah |
| 03:08.02 | Dagmar | Clearly, you'ev never seen my audio collection |
| 03:08.22 | Dagmar | Nickelback doesn't have enough of a "druggie" sound to even fit in over here |
| 03:08.32 | mikma | wobin: anyway, google for "you stole my sound", i think itgs frfom MadTV |
| 03:08.53 | ScytheBlade1 | kd3: which is why I have an electric blanket |
| 03:09.12 | Wobin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs4tNeGyTyI |
| 03:10.24 | kd3 | whee, a fourth wing in VoA |
| 03:10.25 | mikma | wobin: bingo |
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| 03:10.29 | tem | damnit |
| 03:11.12 | tem | I've lost my copy of photoshop |
| 03:11.12 | Wobin | kd3, water? |
| 03:11.12 | Dagmar | kd3: HAH! Let's see some wankers kill all four bosses at once |
| 03:11.12 | Wobin | Captain Planet should totally spawn in the middle |
| 03:11.12 | tem | sigh pirating this sort of thing is a pain |
| 03:11.13 | Wobin | oh wait |
| 03:11.14 | Dagmar | I'm just thinking about how many people would go for a PUG on that |
| 03:11.14 | kd3 | wobin; I dunno. I'm only looking at the instance map |
| 03:11.16 | Wobin | missing |
| 03:11.20 | Wobin | HEART |
| 03:11.22 | Dagmar | ...and what medication they must be on |
| 03:11.33 | mikma | kd3: what map? |
| 03:11.42 | kd3 | the one shipped in tonight's ptr build |
| 03:12.48 | Dagmar | What they need in the fourth wing is a boss that preiodically gravity fluxes like in the end of MgT |
| 03:12.49 | Dagmar | ...just to make things interesting |
| 03:14.27 | mikma | kd3: ss or it didnt happen |
| 03:14.39 | kd3 | sec; uploading to the wiki now |
| 03:15.51 | tem | oh lame |
| 03:16.03 | tem | 10 man and 25 man arthas hard modes have the same title reward |
| 03:16.36 | mikma | hah |
| 03:16.47 | mikma | "of the Arthas" |
| 03:17.28 | tem | "the Frost Ender", actually |
| 03:18.18 | mikma | hmmrph |
| 03:18.25 | mikma | so, will arthas be saved? |
| 03:18.57 | Dagmar | "the Defroster" would be cooler. ;) |
| 03:18.59 | tem | I doubt it |
| 03:19.42 | kd3 | I expect the 25-player title's going to be "the Kingslayer" |
| 03:20.25 | bleeter | Dagmar: defroster.. cooler.. har har |
| 03:20.32 | mikma | kd3: less talking more screenshotting |
| 03:20.35 | tem | kd3, that wouldn't surprize me either |
| 03:20.39 | tem | and would be pretty awesome! |
| 03:21.01 | tem | kind of makes me want to make a female orc rogue |
| 03:21.04 | kd3 | http://www.wowwiki.com/File:InstanceMap-VaultofArchavon.jpg |
| 03:21.06 | Dagmar | Being that the bloodline is clearly no longer helping the humans much, screw him |
| 03:21.11 | tem | and get the title on her |
| 03:21.15 | tem | then rename her to Garona |
| 03:21.53 | Arrowmaster | name is probably blocked |
| 03:21.58 | tem | probably |
| 03:22.07 | tem | would have to use some kind of gay letter |
| 03:23.33 | Arrowmaster | female orc rogue named Garona and male orc warrior named Broxigar would be my picks for not completely fucking retarded attempt to copy a character from lore, you know as opposed to a human deathknight named Arthas |
| 03:23.34 | mikma | kd3: err, wut? |
| 03:23.48 | olafski | Gáròñâ! |
| 03:23.48 | kd3 | hit refresh; the old version's stuck in the cache |
| 03:24.21 | olafski | looks like the version with only archavon and emalon |
| 03:24.50 | olafski | or maybe I'm missing something.. don't even see koralon on it, I assume he's on the left usually (never done him) |
| 03:25.10 | mikma | kd3: its just two wings after reload |
| 03:25.12 | olafski | ah when I look down I see other versions |
| 03:26.10 | kd3 | grrs at the image caches |
| 03:26.30 | tem | Arrowmaster, but imagine Garona with the proper title to go with it! |
| 03:26.57 | tem | would have to get Llane's Dagger from yogg hard mode too |
| 03:27.08 | Arrowmaster | Broxigar the Insane |
| 03:27.12 | Arrowmaster | better imho |
| 03:27.50 | tem | hmm |
| 03:27.58 | tem | certainly close |
| 03:28.51 | Arrowmaster | "When he passed through, and arrived in the realm of the Burning Legion, he proceeded to slaughter multitudes of demons, blocking their advance towards the portal, slaying so many that he ended up standing atop a hill of their bodies â mocking more to come challenge him." |
| 03:29.00 | Arrowmaster | from wowwiki, certainly insane |
| 03:30.59 | Arrowmaster | my personal favorite from lore for the 'most badass mother fucker' award |
| 03:31.17 | NightHawkTheSane | how do you kick someone out of the passenger seat of your vehicle? |
| 03:31.34 | NightHawkTheSane | er, vehicle-mount, ie - motorcycle, mammoth.. |
| 03:31.40 | kd3 | dismount and remount? |
| 03:31.54 | mikma | kd3: refreshed now! they moved the first boss up and added a hall there.. also spot for 5th boss |
| 03:32.07 | kd3 | which is going to be 'heart', I hope |
| 03:32.26 | Wobin | yay! |
| 03:32.31 | Wobin | mai'ti ftw! |
| 03:33.07 | Wobin | I'd totally hope you'd get the "Planeteer" title for killing all 5 + the recombinant |
| 03:34.05 | mikma | i want the old pvp titles back |
| 03:44.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu (n=Sesshu@ip-127-18.travedsl.de) |
| 03:49.11 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/214842422 |
| 03:49.24 | mikma | # Top-level helm and shoulder faction-related enchants are now available as Bind-on-Account items that do not require any faction to use once purchased (they still require the appropriate faction level to purchase). |
| 03:52.14 | Shirik | that is the first garfield minus garfield that I have even remotely thought might be possibly amusing |
| 03:53.35 | Hjalte | Shirik: Do you like normal Garfield? |
| 03:53.46 | Shirik | I don't think I've read it |
| 03:53.52 | Adys | you dont have a sense of humor |
| 03:55.07 | ZorbaTHut | in fairness, normal garfield is terrible |
| 03:57.01 | Adys | its not |
| 03:57.03 | Wobin | the story arcs were good |
| 03:57.08 | Adys | you guys are tasteless plaws |
| 03:58.58 | mikma | wobin: http://matin.maapallo.org/kuvatuuppari/wulff/1396/20091014.gif |
| 03:59.42 | Shirik | no |
| 03:59.44 | Shirik | xkcd is good |
| 03:59.51 | Adys | xkcd is awesome |
| 03:59.55 | Adys | garfield is good |
| 03:59.56 | Shirik | garfield is wtf |
| 04:00.16 | Adys | garfield is amazing, Shirik |
| 04:00.42 | Shirik | negative |
| 04:00.48 | Shirik | ~garfield |
| 04:00.49 | purl | methinks garfield is a very lazy cat |
| 04:02.30 | Adys | garfield is a giant piece of awesome |
| 04:02.43 | Adys | who hates mondays |
| 04:03.48 | Wobin | that's not true |
| 04:03.54 | Wobin | he's a big boned piece of awesome |
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| 04:13.25 | Thunder_Child | kd3, how cold is it there? |
| 04:14.50 | kd3 | mid-40s and dropping |
| 04:15.13 | Thunder_Child | i'd trade ya |
| 04:18.46 | Bruners | -40 ? |
| 04:19.37 | Thunder_Child | you really think thats what he meant? |
| 04:19.56 | Bruners | no idea, that or +40 |
| 04:20.03 | Bruners | but im guessing its farenheit |
| 04:20.12 | Bruners | so that would be like 4 celcius |
| 04:20.12 | NightHawkTheSane | those would be the two options, yes |
| 04:21.09 | Bruners | no reason why it couldnt be -40 celsius |
| 04:25.38 | Thunder_Child | unless you know grammar |
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| 04:53.00 | Arrowmaster | 39F here |
| 04:53.12 | Arrowmaster | its nice finally having the local temp on my desktop |
| 05:02.33 | Bruners | its 2 celsius here |
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| 05:12.37 | Shirik | lua> (4012536 - 796593) / 11599 |
| 05:12.37 | lua_bot | Shirik: 277.26036727304 |
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| 06:09.08 | Adys | Sorry, your username must be between 6 and 30 characters long. |
| 06:09.17 | Adys | I dreamt that gmail suddenly accepted 4-char usernames |
| 06:09.18 | Adys | =( |
| 06:11.40 | zenzelezz | to Google, size does matter |
| 06:12.59 | zenzelezz | why do the people who make official websites for games (before their release) always think that Flash is the way to go? With background music and whatnot... |
| 06:14.43 | Adys | because they're marketers |
| 06:14.48 | Adys | and marketers are retards most of the time |
| 06:14.56 | Adys | so they choose instinctively retarded technology |
| 06:15.03 | Adys | s/gy/gies/ |
| 06:15.29 | zenzelezz | you're right |
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| 06:18.04 | Thunder_Child | seeriously, the D3 site has so much crap mosy computers get clogged arteries just thinking about going there |
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| 06:18.08 | Thunder_Child | most* |
| 06:19.38 | Toxictaru | Hi guys. Big fan. >.>;; If I may cut to the chase, I'm looking for help dumping a table into a SavedVariables file. Nothing is writing. >.< If anyone is willing to work with me on this, I would really appreciate it. |
| 06:20.17 | Adys | Toxictaru: Make a global variable, announce it as saved in your .toc |
| 06:20.34 | Adys | doublecheck you're looking at the correct sv file, there are savedvariables and savedvariablespercharacter |
| 06:21.09 | Toxictaru | Bit of a newb here. I have #SavedVariables: Quests and am defining if not Quests then Quests={} end. I'm not sure how to specify it as a global. |
| 06:21.23 | Adys | thats supposedly global |
| 06:21.44 | Toxictaru | Ok. Well I'm not getting any file at all, in either place. Not even with a "nil" in it. :( |
| 06:21.57 | Wobin | perhaps Quests is not the best name for it |
| 06:21.59 | ckknight | Toxictaru: restart WoW fully. |
| 06:22.06 | Adys | reloadui is supposed to be enough |
| 06:22.13 | Adys | i dont think if its an empty table it gets saved tho |
| 06:22.13 | ckknight | not for TOC changes. |
| 06:22.18 | Adys | oh ya |
| 06:22.25 | ckknight | that requires a logout and login |
| 06:22.28 | Toxictaru | Supposed to be, yeah, but I've crashed WoW enough times to have restarted it, haha. |
| 06:22.30 | Adys | and Wobin's right |
| 06:22.30 | ckknight | restarting WoW fully is safe. |
| 06:22.33 | Toxictaru | ok. |
| 06:22.35 | ckknight | hmm |
| 06:22.41 | ckknight | yea, dont name it Quests |
| 06:22.43 | Adys | name it something else than Quests :P |
| 06:22.46 | Adys | also |
| 06:22.48 | ckknight | name it like Toxic_Quests |
| 06:22.50 | ckknight | or what have you. |
| 06:22.52 | Adys | crashing wow doesnt save anything |
| 06:23.31 | Toxictaru | Restarting now. Thanks for the assistance. I was worried being too blunt when I came in would put me off on the wrong foot, but I've been lectured for "asking to ask" :P |
| 06:23.46 | ckknight | ~asktoask |
| 06:23.47 | purl | This is IRC. Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help. |
| 06:24.30 | Toxictaru | Alright, renaming and restarting fixed it. Thanks everyone. >.o just trying to dump the QID from the new QueryQuestsCompleted(), haha. |
| 06:24.42 | Toxictaru | Got a long ass file in my SavedVars now |
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| 07:40.44 | DWSR | ZorbaTHut |
| 07:42.43 | Fisker | hey you |
| 07:46.41 | Fisker | aww :( |
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| 07:55.25 | Adys | When a .lua file is loaded you can now access the name of the AddOn containing it, and an AddOn specific table (essentially an AddOn variable scope) by assigning them from ...: |
| 07:55.34 | Adys | does that mean we dont have to register shitty globals anymore? |
| 07:56.51 | End | I don't think it really gives us anything we couldn't do before, other than convienantly having a table to put stuff in instead of making it ourselves |
| 07:57.10 | End | certain parts of the FrameXML seem to still expect globals |
| 07:57.22 | End | so you'll probably still need to define them if needed |
| 07:59.19 | Adys | End: addon-scope wasn't possible before if you wanted to save a var |
| 07:59.20 | Adys | also |
| 07:59.26 | Adys | After all, if you checked the tirisfal glades, a grave where Arthas' hore was suppose to be buried, it's empty. |
| 07:59.40 | Adys | I didn't know Jaina was dead. |
| 07:59.50 | zenzelezz | lol |
| 08:00.35 | Adys | That has to be Invincible. Being that through the novel Arthas had such a love affair with Invincible that it bordered on becoming 'inter-species erotica'. |
| 08:00.38 | Adys | what the FUCK |
| 08:00.45 | Adys | am I supposed to moderate this |
| 08:01.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 08:01.48 | Adys | Q u o t e: |
| 08:01.49 | Adys | The @ symbol has been added as a synonym for 'target=' to help compact macros, you can do /cast [@focus] Obliterate |
| 08:01.49 | Adys | I'm kinda wondering if this will result in less network traffic being transferred due to 1 character being sent instead of 8. |
| 08:01.52 | Adys | ...... |
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| 08:02.40 | zenzelezz | O_o |
| 08:02.55 | Dashkal | With macros being server side now, wouldn't that be moot? |
| 08:03.11 | Adys | iriel, getframetype was removed in 3.2 |
| 08:03.13 | zenzelezz | I think it's someone not realising how it affects how much you can fit in a macro |
| 08:03.15 | Adys | ugh hes not here |
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| 08:20.59 | Thunder_Child | ckknight, you going to put isle into cart? |
| 08:22.31 | Arrowmaster | no hes not |
| 08:23.49 | Thunder_Child | are oyu? |
| 08:23.51 | Thunder_Child | you* |
| 08:27.46 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 08:33.53 | Thunder_Child | major fail |
| 08:37.11 | Thunder_Child | lol, we just won and lost isle |
| 08:37.15 | Thunder_Child | got 4 marks |
| 08:38.25 | Fisker | slaps Thunder_Child around a bit with a large trout |
| 08:38.38 | DWSR | ~Fisker++ |
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| 08:53.02 | tem | Hmm |
| 08:53.16 | tem | I can't find the codepath that shows the tradeskillframe when you click a trade link |
| 08:54.36 | Fisker | >:o |
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| 08:57.18 | tem | woah |
| 08:57.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (n=Jamash@c-98-234-176-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 08:57.29 | tem | TradeSkillOnlyShowSkillUps |
| 08:57.46 | tem | a feature built into the game with no ui |
| 08:57.51 | Jamash | sup folks |
| 08:57.52 | tem | and it works... |
| 08:58.31 | Jamash | that's odd |
| 08:59.40 | tem | looks like I need to write an addon to enable its use |
| 09:01.17 | Jamash | some tradeskill addons use it, but I thought it was custom code |
| 09:01.36 | Fisker | jerks! |
| 09:01.49 | Fisker | WoW could actually learn a bit from Aion's crafting system |
| 09:02.31 | Jamash | so, anyone working on an addon using the new completed quests API? |
| 09:02.52 | tem | I'm certain tekkub is using it in Tourguide |
| 09:03.18 | Jamash | it would have been so handy to have that when I was going for loremaster |
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| 09:05.15 | Fisker | yeah |
| 09:05.21 | Fisker | 3 patches too l ate Jamash :P |
| 09:05.29 | Fisker | though i guess i can use it for completion |
| 09:05.46 | Fisker | in b4 a feat of strength that requires completing all non-raid quests in the game |
| 09:06.14 | Arrowmaster | on both factions |
| 09:06.41 | Fisker | :P |
| 09:08.07 | Fisker | i've got way too many games |
| 09:09.01 | Fisker | eufloria next week, torchlight, borderlands and L4D2 demo almost the same day, then dragon age: origins |
| 09:09.01 | Fisker | ;E |
| 09:10.59 | Arrowmaster | and no 360 for me until november 10th |
| 09:11.24 | Fisker | well consoles are for fags anyways |
| 09:11.25 | Fisker | :3 |
| 09:20.43 | zenzelezz | http://www.collegehumor.com/article:1792949 |
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| 09:32.29 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 09:35.13 | Fisker | wat zenzelezz |
| 09:35.14 | Fisker | wat. |
| 09:37.13 | olafski | haha |
| 09:40.27 | olafski | nice I wanted to read about acegui but it requires you to be signed in to wowace.. and wowace signup page is a dead link :< |
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| 09:55.02 | Funkeh` | Is there a particular reason wowcompares displays lua files with no newlines..? |
| 09:56.13 | zenzelezz | conserves bandwidth |
| 09:57.14 | Funkeh` | conserving bandwidth at the cost of being useless? Talk about efficiency =p |
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| 09:58.38 | olafski | what's wowcompares ;$ |
| 09:59.21 | olafski | it does have newlines :S |
| 09:59.30 | olafski | the lua files just aren't formatted |
| 10:00.26 | Fisker | it's so cold |
| 10:01.55 | olafski | yes :< |
| 10:02.04 | olafski | freezing my ass off here and I have the heating set to 21.5 |
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| 10:25.15 | Cruciformer | hello everyone |
| 10:25.20 | zenzelezz | hey |
| 10:25.35 | Cruciformer | I'd forgotten this screen session ... oops :) |
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| 10:33.59 | Thunder_Child | lol, on macgyver a computer just shorted out when some liquid spil'ed on the keyboard. |
| 10:34.41 | olafski | _that_ is what you find unlikely about the show? :P |
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| 10:35.30 | Thunder_Child | most of the things he 'macgyver's' is correct |
| 10:51.10 | wereHamster | wtf? the installer that was downloaded by InstallWoW.app is a ppc executable |
| 10:51.28 | Fisker | so what mr. wereHamster |
| 10:51.42 | wereHamster | I have a intel macbook |
| 10:52.20 | Fisker | You seem to imply that it is an issue |
| 10:52.20 | wereHamster | I'm not installing rosetta just to be able to install wow |
| 10:52.21 | Fisker | ;3 |
| 10:52.29 | Fisker | aww |
| 10:53.38 | wereHamster | I remember, a couple months ago I was able to download an intel installer |
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| 11:06.46 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
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| 11:48.50 | Adys | [13:35:15] <Thunder_Child> most of the things he 'macgyver's' is correct |
| 11:48.52 | Adys | what |
| 11:48.52 | Adys | no |
| 11:49.11 | Adys | sec |
| 11:50.35 | Adys | cant find it |
| 11:50.41 | Adys | anyway he does weird shit with chocolate bars |
| 11:51.06 | zenzelezz | a lot of people do weird shit with chocolate bars |
| 11:51.12 | krka | eww |
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| 12:09.17 | bluspacecow | <PROTECTED> |
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| 12:12.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Moritz__ (n=Moritz@p4FC84826.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:21.10 | Fisker | ~kiss bluspacecow |
| 12:21.11 | purl | ACTION forces bluspacecow to give Shirik|AFK a big kiss on the hand |
| 12:21.20 | bluspacecow | :) |
| 12:21.25 | bluspacecow | he's cute ! |
| 12:21.45 | bluspacecow | *fondles shirik a bit* |
| 12:21.59 | Fisker | no! |
| 12:22.02 | Fisker | ~kiss Fisker |
| 12:22.03 | purl | ACTION forces Fisker to give Sesshu a big kiss on the neck |
| 12:22.10 | Fisker | aww |
| 12:22.15 | Sesshu | ah? |
| 12:22.16 | bluspacecow | young love |
| 12:22.21 | Sesshu | wtf |
| 12:23.05 | bluspacecow | :) |
| 12:23.43 | bluspacecow | dont worry about it |
| 12:23.47 | bluspacecow | fisker's teasing me |
| 12:23.55 | Fisker | slaps bluspacecow around a bit with a large trout |
| 12:23.59 | bluspacecow | :) |
| 12:24.14 | bluspacecow | (he doesn't know im bisexual and actual enjoy his attention) |
| 12:24.16 | bluspacecow | wait |
| 12:24.21 | bluspacecow | did i say that out loud ? |
| 12:24.26 | Cairenn | huggles bluspacecow |
| 12:24.39 | Sesshu | yea |
| 12:24.44 | bluspacecow | ... |
| 12:24.48 | bluspacecow | akkkkkkkkkkkkkkkwaarrrd |
| 12:25.15 | bluspacecow | huggle Cairenn |
| 12:25.16 | Sesshu | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j4t185wl-0 |
| 12:26.52 | bluspacecow | http://www.youtube.com/get_video?fmt=18&video_id=3j4t185wl-0&t=vjVQa1PpcFPObg4DVQxg_icynsV3XWiuzi0mqbDxaj4%3D |
| 12:27.33 | bluspacecow | :) |
| 12:27.54 | Sesshu | does not work |
| 12:28.18 | bluspacecow | works forme |
| 12:28.28 | bluspacecow | i get a mp4 download out of it |
| 12:28.40 | Sesshu | hm |
| 12:28.45 | Sesshu | post the video |
| 12:28.58 | Sesshu | link |
| 12:29.07 | Sesshu | not the download link |
| 12:29.12 | bluspacecow | i can plug that into quick time player and stream straight from you tube ...with no flash installed |
| 12:29.30 | bluspacecow | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j4t185wl-0 |
| 12:29.41 | zenzelezz | well I get a 403 Forbidden when I just do an HTTP GET on the first URL you posted :) |
| 12:30.00 | zenzelezz | the second link worked though |
| 12:30.15 | bluspacecow | weird what os you on ? |
| 12:30.29 | Sesshu | the secound is a normaly youtube watch url |
| 12:30.48 | bluspacecow | must be just my Safari plugin that lets you do it ... |
| 12:31.13 | Sesshu | you are on mac hm? |
| 12:31.18 | bluspacecow | yep |
| 12:33.37 | bluspacecow | http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20040405/badger.shtml |
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| 15:19.36 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 15:19.39 | Cide | Shirik|AFK: ping |
| 15:19.53 | Cide | or anyone really |
| 15:21.07 | Cide | given a set of (x, y) coords, I need to compute outlines of all groups in the set in the most efficient way possible |
| 15:21.11 | Cide | any ideas? |
| 15:21.38 | Aelobin | what does that mean :o lol |
| 15:21.42 | Fisker | slaps Aelobin around a bit with a large trout |
| 15:21.51 | Aelobin | oh man, that was fast |
| 15:22.15 | Fisker | that's what you get |
| 15:22.28 | Cide | consider a grid where you highlight all points in the set |
| 15:22.44 | Cide | I need to calculate the outline of each "island" of points |
| 15:23.33 | Aelobin | what do you mean by outline? |
| 15:24.20 | Cide | the points in the set which are not fully surrounded by other points of the same set |
| 15:24.30 | Cide | points in the same set* |
| 15:24.36 | Aelobin | ah |
| 15:25.12 | Aelobin | so you can make a shape in which all the points are contained? kind of like that? |
| 15:25.13 | Fisker | slaps Aelobin around a bit with a large trout |
| 15:25.19 | Fisker | bam |
| 15:25.25 | Aelobin | no moar fiskering :O i cant take anymore |
| 15:25.26 | Fisker | walk don't talk |
| 15:25.29 | Cide | yes |
| 15:26.03 | Aelobin | yeh, ive no idea xD |
| 15:26.09 | Aelobin | was just interested in what you were tryin gto do |
| 15:26.25 | Cide | well thanks for wasting my time! |
| 15:26.45 | Aelobin | 0_o |
| 15:29.34 | Cide | alestane: any ideas? :) |
| 15:30.10 | alestane | You're trying to do compound region calculations, based on component regions? |
| 15:31.01 | Cide | I'm not sure what that means |
| 15:31.30 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 15:32.10 | Cide | I'm beginning to think the easiest way is to put them in a hash table and for each point check if the surrounding points also exist |
| 15:32.28 | Cide | that's O(8n) though |
| 15:33.15 | Cide | it'll mostly be simple shapes |
| 15:33.36 | alestane | They had to do something related to tthis during the early development of the Mac OS, to manage overlapping windows. |
| 15:33.49 | alestane | Unfortunately, I don't think that code has ever been publicized. |
| 15:34.43 | Cide | sad |
| 15:36.41 | mikma | ckknight: fix it fix it fix iiiiit |
| 15:37.49 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (n=Mike@c-68-38-45-3.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 15:40.27 | Fisker | slaps mikma around a bit with a large trout |
| 15:40.42 | mikma | fisker |
| 15:41.05 | *** join/#wowuidev tem (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 15:41.05 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tem] by ChanServ |
| 15:41.54 | Fisker | well played mikma |
| 15:42.01 | mikma | thanks baby |
| 15:43.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-67-246-40-12.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 15:43.37 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 15:46.47 | Fisker | ok everybody hide |
| 15:48.14 | Fisker | http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=11155638657&postId=111544857512&sid=1#30 <-sneaky troll is sneaky |
| 15:48.46 | foxlit | "Snape kills Arthas in 3.3!!" |
| 15:50.51 | Lopeppeppy | Oh noes! |
| 15:51.13 | alestane | Sorry, I was showing my wife http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/margaret_wertheim_crochets_the_coral_reef.html |
| 15:51.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Stew_a (n=Stewart@unafilliated/stewa/x-008753) |
| 15:51.56 | Fisker | that sucks |
| 15:52.15 | Fisker | lol a man named margaret alestane |
| 15:52.41 | Fisker | (If anyone asks it was foxlit's idea9 |
| 15:52.41 | Fisker | ) |
| 15:52.54 | alestane | But anyway, Cide, Bill Atkinson had to create a bunch of code that managed free-form, potentially discontiguous regions of a Euclidean plane, to avoid redrawing areas of windows that were covered up. It can do unions, subtracts and intersections and tell you whether any given point is inside the region. |
| 15:55.46 | alestane | But if I understand what you're describing, given a set of coordinates, you want to discard any coordinates which are completely surrounded by other coordinates in the set; to reduce the set to an outline. |
| 15:57.28 | mikma | hehe, it's funny how carbonite has their official support forums in wowi :) |
| 15:57.49 | mikma | too bad ckknight IS AN ASS and doesn't fix carto3 ;) |
| 15:59.30 | Lopeppeppy | Let's see if Peppy can break WoW with patching again... gods I hate this process. |
| 16:00.03 | mikma | inserts more bork in wow install |
| 16:00.34 | Lopeppeppy | Seriously, the game crashes 2/3 of the time I try to launch it, but I have no patience for a complete re-install. |
| 16:01.48 | Fisker | you know what i love? |
| 16:02.25 | zenzelezz | peppy: you have bad experience with patching? |
| 16:02.54 | Cide | alestane: yep |
| 16:02.59 | Lopeppeppy | zenzelezz... very yes. |
| 16:03.03 | zenzelezz | :( |
| 16:03.08 | mikma | fisker: ass and fail? |
| 16:03.09 | zenzelezz | I've never had patching fail |
| 16:03.13 | zenzelezz | (with WoW) |
| 16:03.20 | Cide | it's not a huge deal to do it inefficiently though, since I don't need to recalculate everything for every addition/removal of a point |
| 16:03.28 | Cide | so I'll just go with the intuitive approach |
| 16:03.32 | Cide | thanks |
| 16:03.47 | Lopeppeppy | It tries to use the wow patcher and barfs a ton. And I don't even have it in UAC land, it's on my bare-bones C drive. |
| 16:04.07 | zenzelezz | Lopeppeppy: oh, you're on Vista? |
| 16:04.16 | Fisker | naw |
| 16:04.20 | Fisker | only newbs disable uac ;( |
| 16:04.51 | zenzelezz | disables Fisker |
| 16:05.19 | Fisker | that was uncalled for |
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| 16:08.20 | Lopeppeppy | I didn't disable my UAC, Fisker. I did install WoW outside of program files so as not to deal with UAC for frequent patching etc. |
| 16:08.53 | Fisker | :( |
| 16:10.20 | Lopeppeppy | Yay for Mister Chilly! |
| 16:11.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 16:14.11 | Fisker | stabs Lopeppeppy in the neck |
| 16:14.19 | Lopeppeppy | Owies. I need that sometimes, you know. |
| 16:14.25 | Lopeppeppy | ~Fisker++ |
| 16:14.32 | Fisker | hey you got it |
| 16:14.32 | Fisker | :( |
| 16:20.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (n=pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 16:24.39 | Fisker | http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4549/125577725916.jpg |
| 16:40.01 | zenzelezz | Fisker: lol |
| 16:42.03 | Fisker | yes zenzelezz |
| 16:42.08 | Fisker | it did take you 15 minutes to get |
| 16:42.08 | Fisker | ;3 |
| 16:42.38 | zenzelezz | Fisker: I'll have to process that comment, I'll get back to you in 30 minutes |
| 16:44.28 | ScytheBlade1 | http://averagecats.com/ |
| 16:49.46 | zenzelezz | ScytheBlade1: haha |
| 16:50.52 | Aelobin | ScytheBlade1: lol nice |
| 16:51.03 | zenzelezz | http://averagecats.com/282 heh |
| 16:51.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Subdino (n=vincent@ALille-154-1-15-223.w86-192.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:52.18 | Subdino | hi. I cannot find a function to get current player name on wowwiki, is there such a function ? |
| 16:53.03 | zenzelezz | UnitName("player") |
| 16:53.45 | Subdino | thanks |
| 16:56.22 | Aelobin | http://averagecats.com/194 rofl |
| 16:58.13 | Lunessa | I'm awake. But I don't wanna be. |
| 16:58.43 | zenzelezz | knocks Lunessa in the head with the blackjack, Thief 2 style |
| 16:58.58 | Lunessa | has a head made of concrete. |
| 16:59.26 | zenzelezz | then solve your problem yourself |
| 17:00.01 | Lunessa | drinks the bottle of Russian Vodka that was just given to him. |
| 17:02.38 | Fisker | gives Lunessa a bowl of soup |
| 17:03.16 | Lunessa | ~fisker ++ |
| 17:05.56 | Fisker | damnit Lunessa |
| 17:06.04 | Fisker | it's "~Fisker++" |
| 17:06.09 | Fisker | ~karma Fisker |
| 17:06.09 | purl | fisker has karma of 3 |
| 17:06.12 | Fisker | :( |
| 17:07.05 | Lunessa | Alas, poor Fisker. I knew him, Horatio. A man of infinite fish and negative karma. |
| 17:08.22 | Fisker | that's crazytalk |
| 17:08.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@69.57.184.216) |
| 17:08.52 | Lunessa | Maybe, just maybe, I'm totally crazy. |
| 17:09.38 | Lopeppeppy | Fisker's positive karma is a factor of how many times he insults me. :) |
| 17:10.15 | Lunessa | huggles Lopeppeppy and offers cookies. |
| 17:10.46 | Lopeppeppy | Heya, Lunessa. Not too close, I have the plague. |
| 17:11.04 | Lunessa | dons a facemask and rubber gloves. |
| 17:11.09 | Lopeppeppy | Rawr? |
| 17:11.45 | Lunessa | Not that kind. Silly monkey. |
| 17:11.53 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, okay then. |
| 17:12.54 | NightHawkTheSane | mmm.. rubber gloves.. |
| 17:13.02 | zenzelezz | did you just turn down peppy, Lunessa? |
| 17:13.26 | Lopeppeppy | I was merely questioning his gloves, zenzelezz. :) I have the plague, no energy for rawring. |
| 17:13.53 | Lunessa | zenzelezz: No, she has a standing invite. I just didn't want her to think this was #wowfetish up in here. |
| 17:14.17 | zenzelezz | Lunessa: what made your think this isn't #wowfetish? |
| 17:15.06 | Lunessa | zenzelezz: I don't know, the lack of gimp masks and the fact that Cairenn|afk is mad at me for my crack about her Vatican captcha picture...? |
| 17:17.09 | Fisker | why can't i fast forward 5 days? |
| 17:17.20 | Lopeppeppy | You can, but the world can't. |
| 17:17.26 | ScytheBlade1 | I'll take 6 |
| 17:19.46 | Fisker | takes out a knife |
| 17:19.49 | Fisker | will this do? |
| 17:21.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@86-60-153-216-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 17:45.54 | foxlit | If I wanted to find all the food items in the player's inventory. |
| 17:46.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 17:46.10 | foxlit | .. what's the shortest reliable approach? |
| 17:46.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 17:47.06 | foxlit | itemType/itemSubType seem tempting |
| 17:49.50 | NightHawkTheSane | that'll be reasonably good, depending on how specific you want to e |
| 17:49.52 | NightHawkTheSane | be |
| 17:51.17 | foxlit | Getting at the actual regen/stat bonuses would also be a plus. |
| 17:51.25 | NightHawkTheSane | it'll probably pick up booze, and stuff like sdd |
| 17:51.28 | foxlit | But GetItemSpell sucks :/ |
| 17:53.39 | Lunessa | So does tooltip scanning. |
| 17:56.12 | foxlit | Stuffing it all in tables in also unappealing. |
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| 18:05.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Teomyr (i=teo@HSI-KBW-085-216-123-189.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 18:07.41 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 18:08.03 | Lopeppeppy | ` |
| 18:08.04 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-67-246-40-12.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 18:08.26 | zenzelezz | interesting last word |
| 18:08.38 | Aelobin | that's my push to talk key :o |
| 18:08.40 | Aelobin | dont steals it |
| 18:09.08 | nevcairiel | I could never use a visible ptt key, that way i couldnt talk while typing |
| 18:09.09 | Lunessa | oh noes I be stealin it a long tiem z ago |
| 18:09.29 | zenzelezz | I still just use the control key for PTT |
| 18:09.40 | nevcairiel | same |
| 18:09.53 | Lunessa | I use that key because nothing in WoW is bound to it, and I use shift, ctrl, and alt extensively in my keybinds. |
| 18:10.17 | nevcairiel | I was also raid leading, so it had to be a key i could easily press while continueing to play |
| 18:10.36 | zenzelezz | I use ctrl be cause I'm a tank; so I'm using both hands to spam abilities/move |
| 18:10.43 | nevcairiel | for keybindings, i only ever used alt for self-casting, everything more complex and i forced myself to rethink the layout |
| 18:10.55 | zenzelezz | inappropriate space is inappropriate |
| 18:12.03 | zenzelezz | left hand = WASD + 1-5 + ctrl (PTT), right hand = mouse alternating between looking around and pushing abilities 6+ |
| 18:12.22 | nevcairiel | my right hand always stayed at the mouse |
| 18:12.35 | NightHawkTheSane | i try to avoid having any abilities on 6+ that i actualy use |
| 18:12.40 | nevcairiel | left had to use qerftg as well for abilities |
| 18:13.06 | Lunessa | nevcairiel: I only use 1 through = and then page my bars on Alt or Ctrl and use shift as a modifier in macros. I can't get used to WASD or letter keybinds. |
| 18:13.07 | zenzelezz | NightHawkTheSane: I have all my most common abilities in 1-5, and the less important they become the further to the right they are |
| 18:13.25 | zenzelezz | but I can get my mouse cursor from 6 to 0 pretty fast :-p |
| 18:13.28 | nevcairiel | i've always considered 6 to be still reachable |
| 18:13.45 | NightHawkTheSane | is is generally the outer limit of sanely reachable for me |
| 18:13.50 | NightHawkTheSane | on my shaman, its frost shock :P |
| 18:13.52 | zenzelezz | I'd have to move my finger from the W key to reach 6 with my left hand |
| 18:13.56 | *** part/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 18:14.07 | nevcairiel | i use my D finger for that :P |
| 18:14.18 | nevcairiel | W does only 1-3 |
| 18:14.46 | zenzelezz | W always stays on W/S. A does 1+2, D does 3-5 |
| 18:15.10 | zenzelezz | pinky hovers over shift/ctrl |
| 18:15.19 | Lunessa | All my shocks are 9 through = |
| 18:16.04 | nevcairiel | everything beyond 6 is mouse-clicky-area for me |
| 18:16.12 | NightHawkTheSane | ii dont even use 9+ |
| 18:16.13 | nevcairiel | except maybe while buffing |
| 18:16.19 | NightHawkTheSane | i use = for rez on all my toons, though |
| 18:16.19 | zenzelezz | 0+ is rare for me |
| 18:16.25 | nevcairiel | like i know my motw is on 8 |
| 18:16.33 | nevcairiel | so i press it while idle ooc when buffing |
| 18:16.34 | Fisker | ~kiss Fisker |
| 18:16.34 | purl | ACTION forces Fisker to give _rane a big kiss on the hand |
| 18:16.36 | foxlit | has no binding for motw. |
| 18:16.37 | Lunessa | NHTS - Me too, funny. |
| 18:16.53 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: crazy |
| 18:17.01 | Lunessa | http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w227/matt_converse/WoW%20Interface%20Gallery/Unkle-UI-raid-2009-09-30.jpg - this is my UI and you can see the crazy number of buttons. |
| 18:17.54 | nevcairiel | i have more visible buttons |
| 18:17.55 | nevcairiel | i think |
| 18:18.13 | nevcairiel | i removed the visuals off all non-bar1 keybound buttons, though |
| 18:18.58 | Dagmar | Dont' give us that "I have too many buttons" you freaking healer |
| 18:19.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Duman (n=duman@crossover.boom.net) |
| 18:19.13 | Lunessa | I R NOT HAELZ |
| 18:19.41 | NightHawkTheSane | i r healz? |
| 18:19.48 | NightHawkTheSane | i dont have too many buttons, though |
| 18:20.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 18:21.12 | Lunessa | I only heal if I absolutely must (no raid 'cause we're short) or if I want to help someone out. T8.5 healing gear isn't bad, but I'm enhancement for life, yo. |
| 18:21.40 | Dagmar | Your unit frames say you're a healer in denial |
| 18:21.44 | zenzelezz | http://zenzelezz.net/images/random/buttons.jpg -- not too recent, but little has changed |
| 18:22.01 | Lunessa | No, they say I'm an assistant raid leader with a lot of tracking to do mid-fight |
| 18:22.30 | Lunessa | They also say "I use one layout for 15 toons" |
| 18:23.11 | Aelobin | zenzelezz: are you left handed? |
| 18:23.23 | zenzelezz | no |
| 18:23.46 | nevcairiel | you still have your weapon on the bars? |
| 18:23.49 | Shirik | Cide: pong |
| 18:23.49 | nevcairiel | or wtf is in 1? |
| 18:24.12 | zenzelezz | nevcairiel: yes, I do. Means I don't have to go all the way to Esc or to click the world to stop attacking |
| 18:24.26 | nevcairiel | it waste a precious and good reachable spot |
| 18:24.37 | zenzelezz | nah, I got all the spots I need in 2+ |
| 18:24.41 | Subdino | would someone have some time to peer-review my first 200-lines addon, which goal is to allow automated syncing of friendlist among characters of a given account, realm and faction ? |
| 18:24.59 | Aelobin | i cant figure out how s-\ is easily reachable with your left hand (right hand being on the mouse if righthanded) :P |
| 18:25.05 | Subdino | current state is: "It (Just) Works" (tm) |
| 18:25.19 | Shirik | Subdino: If you want me to tear it apart, I could |
| 18:25.30 | zenzelezz | Aelobin: if you've followed the discussion, my left hand only moves slightly; the furthest to the right it goes is to hit the 5 key |
| 18:25.30 | Subdino | Shirik: that's the idea |
| 18:25.30 | Shirik | I'm willing to bet there's a lot that I consider wrong, but works :P |
| 18:25.39 | zenzelezz | I use the mouse cursor for all buttons 6+ |
| 18:25.42 | Subdino | Shirik: I'm willing to learn |
| 18:26.37 | nevcairiel | I have no spells that i would regularly need mid-fight and that i would need to click |
| 18:26.54 | Subdino | Shirik: http://wowuidev.pastey.net/126721 |
| 18:26.55 | nevcairiel | only stuff like innervate etc is on click-buttons |
| 18:27.10 | zenzelezz | I'm a tank, I rotate my camera constantly, so getting the cursor to the 6+ buttons is easy |
| 18:27.32 | zenzelezz | works for me, that's all I care about =) |
| 18:28.03 | Shirik | fyi you technically can't GPL an addon |
| 18:28.12 | Shirik | but nobody cares |
| 18:29.06 | Subdino | ah ? |
| 18:29.30 | Subdino | because of blizzard or because it's an addon ? |
| 18:29.38 | Shirik | The very act of using your addon would violate the GPL |
| 18:29.50 | Shirik | Auctioneer gets around this with a special exception |
| 18:30.03 | Dagmar | how so? |
| 18:30.09 | Subdino | ah, "linking" with proprietary software, right ? |
| 18:30.30 | Dagmar | Since when does lua do shared object links |
| 18:30.41 | Shirik | We put this at the bottom of our license, Subdino |
| 18:30.55 | nevcairiel | probably something along the lines of "compiling" and "running" the GPL addon inside a non-GPL product |
| 18:30.58 | Shirik | http://wowi.pastey.net/126722 |
| 18:30.58 | Subdino | I'll have a look |
| 18:31.57 | Subdino | thanks |
| 18:32.03 | ZorbaTHut | I'm not really sure I believe that. the GPL is about distribution, not use - they never specify what you can or can't do in your own home, and it's questionable whether you even could |
| 18:32.20 | ZorbaTHut | you can certainly GPL code that can only be compiled by MSVC, for example |
| 18:32.35 | zenzelezz | oh? |
| 18:32.37 | nevcairiel | sure, because it runs without MSVC afterwards |
| 18:32.43 | Dagmar | Yeah I don't see that the GPL prohibits GPL addons |
| 18:32.55 | Shirik | I think we've had this discussion before |
| 18:32.59 | nevcairiel | licenses for addons are a useless topic anyway |
| 18:33.03 | Shirik | yes |
| 18:33.07 | Dagmar | "If you wrote and released the program under the GPL, and you designed it specifically to work with those facilities, people can take that as an implicit exception permitting them to link it with those facilities. But if that is what you intend, it is better to say so explicitly." |
| 18:33.14 | Shirik | that's why I said nobody cares :P |
| 18:33.17 | Subdino | yeah, I didn't want to start a licence discussion :) |
| 18:33.21 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
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| 18:33.46 | Shirik | you are using VARIABLES_LOADED wrong |
| 18:34.02 | Shirik | I think |
| 18:34.03 | Shirik | I need to check |
| 18:34.05 | Dagmar | Oh... This is intersting |
| 18:34.21 | Dagmar | AuctionerDB was actually supposed to be working at some point? |
| 18:34.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (n=legorol@82.41.49.132) |
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| 18:34.37 | Shirik | yeah, you shouldn't use VARIABLES_LOADED |
| 18:34.41 | Shirik | use ADDON_LOADED |
| 18:34.42 | Dagmar | ...because it definitely had me fooled. |
| 18:35.53 | Shirik | also, your hooks are bad, imo |
| 18:36.07 | Subdino | Shirik: gah, diner time... would you still be around in ~20 minutes ? |
| 18:36.08 | Shirik | Though that's debatable |
| 18:36.15 | Shirik | I'll probably be playing aion in 20 minutes :P |
| 18:36.22 | Subdino | mmh |
| 18:36.23 | Dagmar | I tried to push data up to that thing 3-4 times a week for awhile |
| 18:36.31 | Dagmar | It never seemed to actually _keep_ any of it |
| 18:36.35 | Shirik | But look into hooksecurefunc, even though those functions don't entirely need to be "secure" it would be more future-safe |
| 18:36.38 | Subdino | then could you /msg me your comments, so I can read them afterward ? |
| 18:37.19 | Subdino | about the hooks: I need to be able to "before-hook" firend removal function, so I can resolve a friend index |
| 18:37.30 | Shirik | ah I missed that |
| 18:37.33 | Shirik | but for the add one |
| 18:37.34 | Subdino | so I used the "monkey patch" way |
| 18:37.46 | Subdino | yes, the add one can use securehook |
| 18:38.13 | Shirik | your code is a lot better than I expected |
| 18:38.15 | Shirik | I was surprised |
| 18:38.21 | Shirik | have you used Lua before? |
| 18:38.56 | Shirik | I don't like the use of globals like SyncFriends_storeAction but that's a personal opinion |
| 18:39.04 | Shirik | I prefer something like SyncFriends.storeAction |
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| 18:40.16 | Subdino | Shirik: lua no, but I'm developping a profesionnal project in python |
| 18:40.25 | Subdino | I miss some constructions of python |
| 18:40.44 | Subdino | but I was able to "map" most of my knowledge to lua |
| 18:41.25 | Subdino | yeah, I was wondering about using a class of something |
| 18:45.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:45.30 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 18:47.26 | Sesshu | i hate windows updates! |
| 18:54.21 | Subdino | is it possible to make a "logical line" span over multiple lines ? (like, with a trailing "\") |
| 18:54.34 | Subdino | ...so my lines would fit in 80chars |
| 18:54.55 | Iriel | Subdino: where? |
| 18:55.35 | Subdino | in lua |
| 18:55.55 | olafski | just press enter? |
| 18:56.05 | olafski | unless you mean a string literal |
| 18:57.00 | Subdino | like "if blahblahblah and foo" (splitting around "and") |
| 18:57.09 | olafski | just press enter I would assume |
| 18:57.09 | Iriel | Just hit enter |
| 18:57.22 | Subdino | ok |
| 18:57.25 | Iriel | There's almost nowhere that newlines are important in lua |
| 18:57.42 | Subdino | I see |
| 18:57.44 | Iriel | whitespace is whitespace is whitespace |
| 18:57.51 | Subdino | hehe |
| 18:58.00 | Lunessa | One of the things I love about it. |
| 18:58.04 | Subdino | that's where python habits strikes back |
| 18:58.11 | olafski | that applies to all languages I know :< |
| 18:58.17 | Subdino | with the "whitespace is nesting" |
| 19:00.14 | Subdino | for strings, I guess I should end the string, add ".." then linebreak and reopen the string, right ? |
| 19:01.03 | Subdino | or is there any "static" method (ie, where concatenation would happen at script parsing, rather than at code interpretation) |
| 19:01.22 | Lunessa | olafski: I cut my teeth on BASIC and Pascal - shudder - |
| 19:01.32 | NightHawkTheSane | there's some kind of multi-line string literal syntax, but i forget what it isright now |
| 19:02.09 | Arrowmaster | i think using \ at the end of the line will work, it works in every other language |
| 19:02.21 | Subdino | note that in my case, I just want to wordwrap source code lines, without altering string value |
| 19:02.46 | olafski | lunessa: hm I tried some basic too but that's so long ago I really could not reproduce even a single line |
| 19:03.06 | Lunessa | Don't worry... You will never have to use it again. |
| 19:03.07 | olafski | well, "100 GOTO 10" or something? |
| 19:03.10 | Iriel | Subdino: I usually just do several "stuff here \n" (newline) .. "more stuff\n"; |
| 19:03.11 | olafski | or was that not basic :P |
| 19:03.18 | Subdino | NightHawkTheSane: I just found [[ ]] in the lua doc, maybe it's what you meant |
| 19:03.27 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, i think so |
| 19:03.44 | olafski | iriel: that's not what he wants I assume.. that would produce an actual newline in the string literal |
| 19:03.55 | Lunessa | olafski: Yeah, GOTO was a construct of BASIC |
| 19:04.11 | olafski | :) |
| 19:04.27 | Subdino | olafski: well, minus the \n it's what I have right now |
| 19:04.51 | Subdino | "blah1 "..<br>"blah2" |
| 19:04.54 | Iriel | Subdino: is there something you dont like about it? |
| 19:05.02 | Thunder_Child | Adys, i did say 'most' |
| 19:05.19 | Subdino | just micro optimisation: I guess that the ".." causes concatenation at run time |
| 19:05.36 | Subdino | as in "azerty" is faster when executed than "a".."z".."e".."r".."t".."y" |
| 19:05.36 | olafski | yeah :) |
| 19:05.49 | Subdino | ...I guess |
| 19:05.55 | olafski | no that's probably right |
| 19:06.09 | Iriel | Subdino: If you're building a constant, it'd happen at the first run, but that's usually irrelevant in the grand scheme of things |
| 19:06.23 | NightHawkTheSane | it is, but i imagine unless you're doing silly things with concatenation, it wont matter too much |
| 19:06.31 | Subdino | I guess so |
| 19:08.01 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (n=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 19:10.52 | olafski | jebus this ace stuff is pretty.. ace. I feel so ignorant now for making my addons manually :$ |
| 19:16.51 | tem | meh |
| 19:16.55 | tem | it's a handy tool |
| 19:17.01 | tem | but typically overkill for me |
| 19:17.16 | tem | now the AceGUI stuff is down right brilliant |
| 19:18.33 | olafski | overkill.. it would make my code a bit shorter, do you think it would incur a noticable performance loss? |
| 19:18.54 | olafski | I'm just reading the tutorial, not at the GUI part yet :) |
| 19:19.01 | nevcairiel | there is only performance loss if you use it wrong |
| 19:19.43 | olafski | yeah I figured.. I would say it probably performs equal or better since I will be using less of my own code ;) |
| 19:26.25 | Shirik | Here's a fun thought |
| 19:26.44 | Shirik | if you have a lot of strings in your program, you might be able to reduce its executable size by turning it into concatenations like that |
| 19:26.48 | Shirik | compiled size* |
| 19:27.01 | Shirik | (for a runtime penalty, of course) |
| 19:27.08 | foxlit | Shirik the Mad. |
| 19:30.36 | Lunessa | Shirik: If I were your project manager I'd whack you with a rolled up magazine and deny you a biscuit for that. |
| 19:30.53 | Shirik | rofl |
| 19:30.57 | Shirik | I was just saying! |
| 19:30.59 | Shirik | I wouldn't do it |
| 19:31.10 | Shirik | though I have to admit I have done similar evil things for embedded systems before |
| 19:31.11 | foxlit | You'd have to make reusable blocks longer than the pointer/code required to glue them. |
| 19:31.13 | Shirik | like this |
| 19:33.13 | Iriel | Shirik: Leveraging common substrings? |
| 19:33.23 | Shirik | have done that, yes |
| 19:33.27 | Shirik | though that wasn't what I was going to show |
| 19:33.57 | Shirik | This took a good 2 weeks of negotiation. One team wants more data, one team wants to keep it small and packed. |
| 19:33.58 | Shirik | http://wowi.pastey.net/126725-napl |
| 19:34.44 | Iriel | Shirik: is that the right example? |
| 19:34.49 | Shirik | yes :P |
| 19:35.01 | Shirik | it's all about stuffing as much data into a tiny space as possible |
| 19:36.30 | Lunessa | GIS data... Good lord I can understand the desire to compact it. |
| 19:36.56 | Shirik | oh you know what GIS is |
| 19:37.17 | Shirik | It's actually GIS data + more information we make :) |
| 19:37.19 | Lunessa | I work at a University with a geophysical sciences department |
| 19:37.22 | Iriel | I dont think GIS is that obscure 8-) |
| 19:37.32 | Shirik | Well it's not common knowledge :P |
| 19:37.42 | Lunessa | And, I am uncommon. |
| 19:37.43 | Lunessa | :P |
| 19:37.49 | Iriel | As, I guess, am I |
| 19:37.52 | Shirik | Anyway, we have the GIS data |
| 19:38.01 | Shirik | and then on top of that we put everything the car has learned about the various points |
| 19:38.07 | Lunessa | One day, I expect to be moved up to Epic, but I think Iriel is already Lendary |
| 19:38.16 | Shirik | e.g., "the driver likes to accelerate here" |
| 19:38.16 | Lunessa | Legendary |
| 19:38.20 | Shirik | "there is often traffic here" |
| 19:38.30 | Lunessa | Jokes are funnier when they're properly spelled. |
| 19:38.44 | Shirik | but yeah, even adding 1 bit showed a couple gigabytes difference in the end |
| 19:39.05 | Lunessa | Shirik: Are you working on traffic control systems? Cool work. |
| 19:39.12 | Shirik | nah this is for our car |
| 19:39.34 | Lunessa | A real "auto" mobile? Self-driving? |
| 19:40.54 | Shirik | nah |
| 19:40.59 | Shirik | so |
| 19:41.10 | Shirik | this is a plugin hybrid electric vehicle |
| 19:41.31 | Shirik | Part of the problem with current hybrid cars is that the decision to switch between different operating modes is a reactive decision |
| 19:41.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Zeksie (n=zeksie@cpc1-nott9-0-0-cust756.nott.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:41.39 | Shirik | by the time the decision is made, a lot of efficiency has already been lost |
| 19:42.10 | Shirik | we are trying to turn it into a proactive decision by learning how the driver drives, learning about the area it's driving in, etc., so it can literally predict upcoming conditions and make a good decision |
| 19:42.57 | Shirik | for example, if it knows 30m traffic standstill is always ahead at 8 AM, and you're approaching it, it would take the time to ensure the battery is fully charged so that you can be running fully electric through the traffic |
| 19:43.44 | Shirik | current hybrid cars basically only make their decisions on the current battery state and demand from the driver |
| 19:44.47 | Lunessa | Sounds like a fun project. |
| 19:45.46 | Shirik | it is :) |
| 19:52.14 | Subdino | would like to be in a team caring about data space |
| 19:53.16 | Subdino | instead, we ask customer to buy more ram... |
| 19:53.20 | ccox | Shirik: that does sound like a challenge |
| 19:53.34 | ccox | especially recognizing deviation from the prediction conditions |
| 19:53.51 | Shirik | It's a very fun AI problem ;) |
| 19:53.58 | Shirik | We have several different teams working on various solutions |
| 19:54.05 | ccox | and probably staging multiple predictors over different time scales and metrics to optimize things when larger predictors fail |
| 19:54.39 | ccox | reactive controls can be close to "one size fits all", but not predictive |
| 19:55.01 | ccox | just recognizing 2 different drivers styles in the same vehicle is a tough problem |
| 19:55.09 | Shirik | got that worked out already |
| 19:55.19 | ccox | use the key fobs as ids? |
| 19:55.23 | Shirik | that's the first part |
| 19:55.45 | Shirik | second part is a load sensor which estimates "does this really look like the same person?" |
| 19:55.55 | Shirik | key fobs have an rfid tag on them |
| 19:56.00 | Shirik | well |
| 19:56.00 | Shirik | key |
| 19:56.01 | ccox | "Did Bob eat an extra heavy dinner"? |
| 19:56.02 | Shirik | not fob |
| 19:56.05 | Shirik | rofl |
| 19:56.39 | ccox | now add a "DUI" detector.... |
| 19:56.43 | Shirik | ooh |
| 19:56.52 | Shirik | now you're getting creative :) |
| 19:57.00 | ccox | "I notices |
| 19:57.03 | Shirik | actually, I think we aren't allowed to do that even if we wanted to |
| 19:57.16 | Shirik | one of the restrictions we have is that we cannot override a user's capabilities |
| 19:57.17 | ccox | "I noticed SMS signals from within the car, would you like me to pull over?" |
| 19:57.48 | Shirik | so solution to crazy driver accelerating from 0 to 60 in 0.0001 seconds is not "make him accelerate slower" |
| 19:57.51 | Shirik | you have to meet the demand |
| 19:58.00 | Shirik | (to the extends of the car's capabilities, of course) |
| 19:58.18 | ccox | meet the demand, but try to optimize fuel efficiency - those are conflicting |
| 19:58.52 | Subdino | while true { turnOffGas(); } |
| 19:59.00 | Shirik | I know ccox :P |
| 19:59.05 | Shirik | It's a very strange problem |
| 19:59.05 | ccox | if you set limits on efficiency (won't go under X MPG, won't go under X MPH on cruise control), then it's doable |
| 19:59.23 | Shirik | we don't have set limits on efficiency, we have set limits on performance |
| 19:59.34 | Shirik | must go from 0 to 60 in x, must go from 0 to 40 in x, must go from 50 to 70 in x |
| 19:59.37 | Shirik | etc. |
| 19:59.47 | Shirik | Actually we do have set limits on efficiency too, but they're way below even the stock car |
| 19:59.58 | Dagmar | That's for drivers who can't meet their own personal performance metrics. |
| 20:00.04 | ccox | then the project is hobbled to start with |
| 20:00.05 | Dagmar | You know, like "must keep it up for 3 minutes" |
| 20:00.11 | Shirik | why do you say that ccox? |
| 20:00.31 | ccox | because the limits are backwards from what you need |
| 20:00.47 | Shirik | they're also the limits that will make the car marketable |
| 20:00.57 | ccox | "must not go from 0 to 60 any faster than y" would actually help you more |
| 20:01.05 | Shirik | it would make it easier for us, sure |
| 20:01.11 | Shirik | it would make it worse for the consumer, and thus impractical |
| 20:01.15 | Shirik | that is not an acceptable limitation |
| 20:01.34 | Shirik | We are judged on "consumer acceptability rating" |
| 20:01.39 | ccox | think about it a bit more - it depends on x and y values |
| 20:01.40 | Shirik | these are restrictions on that rating |
| 20:01.57 | ccox | consumers accepted YUGOs for goodness sake |
| 20:02.05 | Shirik | Hey, I don't make the restrictions |
| 20:02.10 | Shirik | the government does |
| 20:02.10 | ccox | and still accept Ford rollerskates |
| 20:02.12 | Shirik | and GM |
| 20:02.28 | ccox | Do they want to optimize mileage or not? |
| 20:02.36 | Shirik | sorta |
| 20:02.46 | Dagmar | ccox: Of course we accepted Yugos |
| 20:02.49 | ccox | You can optimize mileage and give performance guarantees, but you have to be careful with the set boundaries |
| 20:02.51 | Shirik | Goal 1: zero emissions. Goal 2: Efficiency. Goal 3: Consumer acceptability |
| 20:02.55 | Dagmar | Who didn't like the disposable car? |
| 20:03.00 | Shirik | I promise the performance guarantees aren't at all difficult |
| 20:03.04 | Shirik | However, they must be set |
| 20:03.21 | ccox | Dagmar - yeah, when it died, just tip it into the dumpster :-) |
| 20:03.26 | Shirik | I think it's something like 0 to 60 in 12 seconds |
| 20:03.30 | Dagmar | It was great. You guy the car, you drive it awhile, it rains, the car dissolves into harmless biodegradable mush |
| 20:03.52 | ccox | Shirik: yes, but, again, that's only part of the boundary conditions you need |
| 20:03.55 | Dagmar | THe only ones I ever saw longer than a year or so were the people who had the sense to garage them |
| 20:04.02 | Shirik | ? |
| 20:04.05 | ccox | Dagmar: no, you're thinking of Saturn |
| 20:04.10 | Shirik | I can't memorize all the conditions off the top of my head |
| 20:04.18 | Dagmar | No, I'm definitely thinking of Yugo |
| 20:04.19 | Shirik | we have a huge specification sheet |
| 20:04.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 20:04.27 | Dagmar | I had a lot of punk friends who didn't have money for real cars |
| 20:04.41 | Dagmar | So, Yugos were popular with them |
| 20:04.41 | ccox | Dagmar: Saturnn is the plastic car, Yugo was made of (very thin) metal |
| 20:05.04 | Dagmar | Yes, which meant you could modify them with a pair of safety scissors |
| 20:05.08 | ccox | Shirik: ok, then you may have the right boundary conditions (sorry, this has turned into a PDE in my head) |
| 20:05.25 | Shirik | Problem is |
| 20:05.28 | Shirik | I don't really know all the conditions |
| 20:05.31 | Shirik | I know very few of them |
| 20:05.41 | Shirik | I have a program that runs a simulation and says "Looks like you're on track to meet everything" |
| 20:05.47 | Shirik | or "You can't accelerate from 50 to 70 in time" |
| 20:05.48 | Shirik | or whatever |
| 20:05.48 | ccox | Shirik: um, that could be a problem |
| 20:05.57 | Shirik | It's industry-standard so |
| 20:06.07 | Shirik | (not saying the industry isn't fundamentally broken, but anyway) |
| 20:06.31 | Shirik | there are other people responsible for this |
| 20:06.43 | Shirik | The mechanical engineers are the ones ultimately responsible for us hitting those conditions |
| 20:06.54 | ccox | (I'm not saying the industry is broken, but it could use some superglue, know whata mean?) |
| 20:06.59 | Shirik | lol |
| 20:07.37 | Shirik | I especially like |
| 20:07.37 | Shirik | we had a bug in our controller |
| 20:07.37 | Shirik | where it would always run on battery |
| 20:07.46 | ccox | (and I'm not sure superglue comes in super tanker sizes) |
| 20:07.57 | Shirik | the thing told us we had something like 1.6 x 10^16 MPG |
| 20:08.28 | ccox | well, you just found the upper liimit of their numeric precision :-) |
| 20:08.33 | Shirik | :P |
| 20:08.57 | Shirik | anyway the whole zero emissions problem is really what's holding us back |
| 20:09.03 | Shirik | because we want to plug into the power grid |
| 20:09.17 | Shirik | but we get penalized for that because we are judged as being responsible for the pollution from power plants |
| 20:09.19 | ccox | power grid has non-zero emissions |
| 20:09.25 | Shirik | right |
| 20:09.36 | ccox | NOTHING has non-zero emissions |
| 20:09.37 | krka | your mom has non-zero emissions! |
| 20:09.46 | Shirik | nothing has zero emissions* |
| 20:09.49 | krka | really? nothing? |
| 20:09.58 | ccox | whoops, yeah, wrong way, reverse that |
| 20:10.04 | krka | depends on your definition of "nothing", "zero" and "emission" |
| 20:10.14 | Shirik | well we meet the government's definition of a zero-emissions vehicle |
| 20:10.19 | Shirik | but we're still judged against the power plant |
| 20:10.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 20:10.49 | ccox | Guess that depends on what fool is doing the judging |
| 20:10.59 | Shirik | GM and the DoE :) |
| 20:11.06 | ccox | are they charging you for the CO2 emissions of the people designing the car and building it? |
| 20:11.41 | ccox | are they charging for the hot air emitted by the bureaucrats judgingit? |
| 20:11.43 | Lunessa | You can't win with some people. There are those who won't be happy until we're all sterilized at birth, eat our recycled dead and pulverize everything we've made which isn't bio-degradable. |
| 20:11.58 | ccox | or all the CO2 emissions of all the people that lead up to the current work? |
| 20:12.07 | ZorbaTHut | lunessa, that would be a terrible idea! we'd need to use energy to pulverize things and everyone knows that energy is eeeevil |
| 20:12.10 | Shirik | Which are you talking about? |
| 20:12.15 | ccox | or the buildings housing the offices of everyone involved? |
| 20:12.17 | Shirik | For the competition or for government regulations? |
| 20:12.32 | ZorbaTHut | sits on the internet and tries to convince people that technology is an abomination |
| 20:12.35 | ccox | The insanity of charging you for emissions of something far back in the chain, outside of your control |
| 20:12.37 | Subdino | and the emissions the the ashtray |
| 20:12.42 | Subdino | s/the/of/ |
| 20:12.50 | Shirik | government regulations are concerned only with the the end result, that is, what the car produces |
| 20:13.05 | Subdino | s/s the/s of/ |
| 20:13.06 | Lunessa | ZorbaTHut: I find it ironic that a lot of people holding those sorts of positions fail to meet the standards they want everyone else to follow. |
| 20:13.09 | ccox | then why is someone charging you for the power plant emissions? |
| 20:13.11 | Shirik | the competition has a term for how they judge it, and there's actually a program to compute it |
| 20:13.34 | Antiarc | Yay |
| 20:13.41 | Antiarc | Finally got off my butt and did an Algalon video |
| 20:13.51 | Shirik | basically all it is is "You took x watts from the grid, average pollution across the US to produce x watts from a power plant is y, so you are charged y" |
| 20:13.56 | ZorbaTHut | lunessa, pollution is a terrible thing and nobody should ever use more than their fair share of resources! That's why I tell my maids to only use biodegradable cleaning supplies, and why all four of my cars are hybrids. |
| 20:14.11 | Antiarc | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw9sSAhHGeY&fmt=22 |
| 20:14.37 | ZorbaTHut | shirik, it's good that they're taking that into account |
| 20:14.40 | ccox | Shirik: again, they went at least one step too far back in their calculations, and left out other relevant factors (like production) |
| 20:14.51 | Lunessa | ZorbaTHut: Excellent. I recycle all my food waste into the handily provided porcelain receptacle in my dwelling unit. |
| 20:14.52 | Shirik | I think production might count |
| 20:14.54 | Shirik | let me pull up the rules |
| 20:15.16 | Shirik | because that would be unfair to the hydrogen teams |
| 20:16.09 | ZorbaTHut | lunessa, whenever I'm done using plastic items, I don't put them in the garbage. That would be an ecological disaster. Instead, I burn them. Fire's natural, y'know! |
| 20:17.12 | Shirik | here we are |
| 20:17.21 | Lunessa | ZorbaTHut: Oh yes. And any natural process is completely wonderful! |
| 20:17.23 | ccox | I just throw plastics in the ocean -- because plastics are organic, and it's the circle of life, ya know ;-P |
| 20:17.25 | Shirik | E WELL-TO-WHEELS GREENHOUSE GAS AND PETROLEUM ENERGY USE FACTORS AND CALCULATIONS |
| 20:17.27 | Shirik | that's what they call it |
| 20:18.30 | Shirik | eh |
| 20:19.01 | Shirik | they just give straight numbers of CO2, CH4, N2O, and GHGs per gram of fuel (by fuel) |
| 20:19.13 | Shirik | for E10, E85, B20, Electricity, and Hydrogen |
| 20:19.32 | Shirik | they call them "upstream factors" |
| 20:20.25 | Shirik | Upstream factors are determined based on an electricity mix of 87% US production and 13% Canadian production. <-- I think that means they're just stopping at the power grid |
| 20:20.45 | Shirik | This is what they use: http://www.transportation.anl.gov/modeling_simulation/GREET/ |
| 20:22.58 | ccox | yeah, reading it now |
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| 20:25.28 | ccox | mostly reasonable |
| 20:25.47 | ccox | sounds like a lot of political compromise for the ethanol folks though |
| 20:26.06 | Subdino | in "for foo in ..." construct, should I declare explicitely foo as local before the loop ? |
| 20:26.26 | Lunessa | Food crop subsidies for things like ethanol and milk and such is a whole tangle that needs re-thinking |
| 20:27.12 | ccox | interesting conclusions that GHG is reduced *except when power grid dominated by coal or oil* |
| 20:28.01 | ccox | (sort of a *well duh* conclusion - but one that most politicians don't seem to want to admit) |
| 20:28.55 | Shirik | no Subdino |
| 20:28.57 | Shirik | it is local |
| 20:29.50 | Lunessa | Well naturally you can't build nuclear plants, and there's a limit to the number of damnable rivers for generating hydro-electric power. So wtf do you do aside from burn coal or oil? |
| 20:30.05 | Lunessa | Wind turbines and solar won't provide enough power. |
| 20:30.24 | ccox | Lunessa - I hope that's sarcasm |
| 20:30.37 | ccox | we've over dammed rivers (starting to remove them) |
| 20:30.54 | ccox | and we desperately need more nuclear plants |
| 20:31.01 | Lunessa | ccox: I'm dripping sarcasm - for all parties in the debate. |
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| 20:31.48 | Shirik | we need fusion power |
| 20:32.00 | ccox | shirik -- interesting, the reports don't charge hydrogen or bio fuels (of any variety) with full production costs, giving them a false advantage |
| 20:32.11 | Shirik | oh? |
| 20:32.22 | Subdino | Shirik: strange... it seems that in the case where a variable with the same name exists as local in a container namespace, it gets overwritten |
| 20:32.34 | Shirik | I didn't look to see where the numbers come from, I just know the numbers |
| 20:32.39 | Shirik | Subdino: Not exactly |
| 20:32.48 | Shirik | Lua basically forgets all names of variables |
| 20:32.53 | Shirik | local a = 1; local a = 2; local a = 3; |
| 20:33.01 | Shirik | If you were to inspect the stack, all three variables will show up |
| 20:33.08 | Shirik | though from Lua, you can only directly access the third |
| 20:33.15 | ccox | Shirik: we've got it - about 8.3 light minutes away from you |
| 20:33.16 | Shirik | C could very easily find all of them, though |
| 20:33.46 | Shirik | I think the funny thing is |
| 20:33.58 | Shirik | for some things, they actually show negative production of emissions |
| 20:34.11 | Shirik | For example B20 is -6.15g/kWh |
| 20:34.14 | Shirik | of |
| 20:34.15 | Shirik | CO2 |
| 20:34.23 | ccox | yeah, suspicious much? |
| 20:34.24 | Shirik | which makes sense, because it's from a plant :) |
| 20:34.37 | Shirik | plant eating up the CO2 I guess is what they're saying |
| 20:34.47 | ccox | nope, plants don't just suck in CO2, they also give off CO2, especially when you convert them to fuel |
| 20:35.01 | ccox | plants eat up CO2 only as long as they stay alive and growing |
| 20:35.05 | Shirik | I don't know enough about this to make an analysis :) |
| 20:35.09 | Shirik | I just know the numbers |
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| 20:37.26 | ccox | now, marine life CAN suck up CO2 for a long time -- by converting it to lime (then dying and leaving it to harden on the bottom of the ocean) |
| 20:37.45 | ccox | of course, even that isn't permanent (else we wouldn't have limestone caves) |
| 20:40.45 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 20:40.53 | Fisker | you are the cancer that's killing me |
| 20:41.28 | ZorbaTHut | they can convert CO2 into C and O2, which is basically "consume it" |
| 20:41.55 | ccox | Zorba - and then what happens when the plant dies, or is converted to fuel? |
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| 20:42.50 | ZorbaTHut | it's not like everything it produced magically changes back when it dies |
| 20:42.57 | ZorbaTHut | it just doesn't consume more |
| 20:43.05 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 20:43.09 | Fisker | won't you stop killing me? |
| 20:43.12 | ZorbaTHut | if it's converted into fuel, you credit that to whoever the schmuck burning it is. otherwise maybe it's composted or something. |
| 20:43.29 | ccox | Zorba - and decomposition will do what with that plant matter? |
| 20:44.10 | ZorbaTHut | depends how you're decomposing. if it's anaerobic decomposition, then a lot of stuff happens, but it largely doesn't turn into CO2. |
| 20:44.26 | ZorbaTHut | if you can make any argument that things "produce CO2" then you can make similar arguments that things "consume CO2" |
| 20:44.56 | ccox | unless you find a way to use the plan without oxidation, it's a zero sum game -- the plant absorbs, then eventually returns the CO2 |
| 20:44.58 | ZorbaTHut | otherwise the entire planet gradually turns into CO2 which is obviously a bit silly because it's not like decomposition or burning are new inventions by human beings |
| 20:45.07 | ccox | Zorba - something can absorb it, semi-permanently |
| 20:45.09 | ZorbaTHut | sure, but I mean, by that logic, so is everything we do |
| 20:45.17 | ccox | Zobra - but plants are only a short term absorption |
| 20:45.18 | ZorbaTHut | we produce, then other things eventually absorb |
| 20:45.43 | ccox | yes, as long as things stay alive |
| 20:46.36 | ZorbaTHut | I mean, one point is that a lot of CO2 comes from oil. which is basically plants and creatures. so obviously even dead things can store CO2 rather effectively. :P |
| 20:46.39 | Fisker | slaps ZorbaTHut around a bit with a large trout |
| 20:46.40 | Lunessa | And seriously, does anyone really credit the idea that CO2 is going to destroy the world? |
| 20:46.46 | ccox | yep |
| 20:46.53 | ccox | not alone, no |
| 20:47.11 | ccox | I think hot air from politicians will do more damage |
| 20:47.38 | ccox | but, we know that CO2 and methane contribute to green house effects |
| 20:47.48 | ccox | Do we want our actions to make the environment WORSE? |
| 20:48.32 | Lunessa | What's next? Fear that heat-reflection from concrete roads and buildings are melting the polar ice? |
| 20:50.11 | ccox | and screw CO2, I just don't want to be beholden to some Saudi prince for everything I do |
| 20:50.45 | ZorbaTHut | one real problem is that we fundamentally do not *know* what will make the environment worse |
| 20:51.08 | ZorbaTHut | and we don't know how counterbalancable it is by other actions we take |
| 20:51.10 | ccox | Zorba - we do know that CO2, methane, and CFCs will make things worse |
| 20:51.47 | ccox | those are relatively easy to prove |
| 20:51.49 | Lunessa | ccox: *nod* I'm just pointing out that I find the 'facts' wanting in the cases being presented, and I'm unconvinced that CO2 emissions are aour huge worry. |
| 20:51.55 | ccox | how *much* worse, we don't know |
| 20:52.10 | ccox | and how to solve the problem, we really don't know |
| 20:52.20 | ccox | but cutting back emissions, can't hurt, eh? |
| 20:52.23 | A-KO | Lunessa: actually, they are already looking at that--by covering roofs with lighter colored coatings |
| 20:52.27 | A-KO | so they don't absorb heat |
| 20:52.29 | Lunessa | I do want to clean up other contaminant - lead, and such. |
| 20:52.31 | ZorbaTHut | ccox, sure it can, if it's expensive |
| 20:52.58 | ccox | Zorba - which is more expensive: cutting back emissions, or moving to a new planet? |
| 20:52.58 | Lunessa | A-KO: I was aware of that. That's why I used it as an example. |
| 20:53.14 | A-KO | ccox: a lot of people don't care because it comes down to this: IF (Time_Til_Earth_ends > My_lifetime) { I_Don't_Care() } :P |
| 20:53.21 | ZorbaTHut | ccox, which is more expensive: spending trillions cutting back emissions, or discovering that actually, we didn't need to cut those back after all, we're totally fine? |
| 20:53.28 | ZorbaTHut | (if you can make a false dichotomy so can I) |
| 20:53.46 | A-KO | ZorbaTHut: It's not really spending trillions though, because the net effect is also a reduction in cost. |
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| 20:54.03 | ccox | A-KO - I know, and seemingly those people all vote the same way... |
| 20:54.08 | ZorbaTHut | a-ko, I find it very hard to believe that every possible emissions reduction is also somehow a reduction in cost :P |
| 20:54.42 | A-KO | ZorbaTHut: It sure is, anything you cna do in your home to improve its efficiency is not only a reduction in the greenhouse output but a reduction on your electric/gas/heating/whatever bill. |
| 20:54.54 | ZorbaTHut | I mean, here's how I see it. we owe it to us to make the planet as habitable for us as possible. So polluting it is bad. On the other hand, agonizing over even slighy issues is just of unnecessary. |
| 20:55.06 | Shirik | you know |
| 20:55.07 | ZorbaTHut | a-ko, and if it costs money, the amount it costs can vastly overshadow the whatever bill. |
| 20:55.14 | Shirik | this is the whole basis behind Star Ocean 4 |
| 20:55.17 | ccox | Zorba - think about a hybrid card: lower cost (over a few years), lower emissions |
| 20:55.37 | Shirik | how the people living on the planet right now are selfish and not very appreciative of the planet |
| 20:55.50 | A-KO | I don't think it's unnecessary, because all the little things add up. If every person replaced their bulbs with CFL, something on an individual level is small, it adds up to huge savings. It's something you consider when operating a large computer environment, too. Set a power policy on the machines saves millions in electrical costs. |
| 20:55.50 | Lunessa | Here's the thing about emission reduction/pollution controls - developing economies don't care. Pollution vs "Is my belly full and do I have a comfortable place to live" trump nearly every other concern for most people. And thus they will push their economies to produce those result and won't care about pollution. |
| 20:55.51 | A-KO | etc. |
| 20:55.53 | ZorbaTHut | ccox, go calculate how many years it really takes a hybrid to pay off :P |
| 20:55.54 | Dagmar | "Whiny japanese crap" |
| 20:56.08 | A-KO | Lunessa: That is no excuse for developed nations and economies to not care, however. |
| 20:56.13 | ccox | Zorba - 4 for my camry at current gas prices |
| 20:56.27 | A-KO | Lunessa: "THEY DID IT TOO" has never been an excuse, not even since you were a little kid growing up |
| 20:56.29 | ccox | Zorba - would have been 2 if I could fit in a Pious |
| 20:56.34 | A-KO | that's like, kindergarten level education right there |
| 20:56.42 | ccox | ZorbaTHut: I did that calc before buying one |
| 20:56.49 | Dagmar | ccox: How many miles do you drive in a day, man? |
| 20:56.50 | A-KO | "waaaah waaah but they did it also!" has never, ever been a valid excuse for anything. |
| 20:57.12 | ccox | Dagmar: 14 on a work day, 25 on a weekend |
| 20:57.24 | Lunessa | A-KO: Yeah, now convince me that I should spend more for food/power etc. because it's cleaner. And by me, I mean everyone. (Note, I already buy my power from a "green" provider.) |
| 20:57.27 | ccox | Dagmar: the higher the gas price, the faster the payoff |
| 20:58.02 | Dagmar | I'm guessing you're in the UK or something then |
| 20:58.13 | ccox | Dagmar: nope, just CA |
| 20:58.17 | A-KO | Lunessa: who said anything about spending more? Nobody. Sure, it's more upfront cost, but it is not more cost in the long term, and it's a reduction in cost. So while CFL bulbs cost a few dollars more than a regular light bulb, in a year of use you've already made it back 3 fold. |
| 20:58.21 | Dagmar | ...because my _scooter_ is paying itself off in three and it's probably got higher mpg |
| 20:58.25 | A-KO | It's not my problem if people don't like up front costs |
| 20:58.31 | A-KO | it's still less money :P |
| 20:58.38 | Dagmar | I only paid about $2500 for it |
| 20:58.42 | A-KO | food time |
| 20:58.42 | A-KO | bbl |
| 20:59.03 | Lunessa | A-KO: I'm just saying convincing me to pay "more" at any time is a hard sell. |
| 20:59.14 | ccox | Dagmar: not paying off the whole thing: paying off the difference, and starting to save |
| 20:59.21 | Dagmar | Oh |
| 20:59.30 | Lunessa | Especially for a "problem" most people can't see/exeperience/understand which may or may not actually be a problem. |
| 20:59.34 | Subdino | mmh... why would "table.getn(faction_sync_pool) > 0" evaluate to false when iterating over faction_sync_pool atualy finds data ?! |
| 21:00.10 | Dagmar | ccox: Maybe when they finally get serious about attempting to improve economy you'll be ready to replace that car |
| 21:00.16 | doobius | subdino: your keys aren't numbers |
| 21:00.28 | Subdino | doobius: right |
| 21:00.30 | Subdino | mmh |
| 21:00.33 | Dagmar | Still, you're ahead of the game if you're managing to make that economical _at all_ |
| 21:00.35 | Subdino | no len() available ? |
| 21:00.45 | doobius | subdino: and don't use table.getn, use #t |
| 21:00.58 | Subdino | googles |
| 21:01.05 | doobius | you have to iterate with pairs to get non-numeric lengths |
| 21:01.15 | doobius | non-numeric keys that is |
| 21:01.28 | Subdino | yep, that's how I'm iterating |
| 21:01.59 | Subdino | the iteration was in a test on length, because it needs to initialise other structures before iterating, which are unneeded if we don't iterate |
| 21:02.15 | Dagmar | Frankly I don't think it was political pressure or legal threats or increased production that made gas prices go back down |
| 21:02.19 | Subdino | and the test was always evaluating to false, so the loop was never entered |
| 21:02.52 | Dagmar | I think it was the realization that the news was telling people they could buy a newer car that would permanently reduce their gas consumption and spend less overall that did it |
| 21:03.20 | Dagmar | "Like, whoopsie! We're charging so much people have incentive to go elsewhere now." |
| 21:03.43 | Subdino | doobius: could you provide me a short example with #t ? google doesn't help at a first glance |
| 21:05.13 | ccox | Dagmar: that certainly contributed |
| 21:05.24 | ccox | Dagmar: plus the attention on gas company profits |
| 21:05.44 | ccox | Dagmar: anything that hurts their sales will cause a drop in prices, it's all supply and demand |
| 21:05.53 | Subdino | doobius: or is it the # operator ? |
| 21:06.03 | ccox | (even if the supply is artificiallyl regulated to maintain prices, damit) |
| 21:07.39 | Dagmar | ccox: Yeah but if they forced a lot of people to buy hybrids, that would attract the attention fo automakers, who will of course never actually dramatically reduce gas consumption without a large incentive |
| 21:08.23 | Dagmar | A _lot_ of people buying hybrids would have funded more of it, rather than the current mechanism of overpriced SUVs causing them to make and sell mainly overpriced gas-guzzling SUVs |
| 21:08.42 | Dagmar | ...which would mean a permanent hit on the amount of gas they can sell. |
| 21:09.03 | Dagmar | I think *that's* the reason the prices went down more than anything else. |
| 21:09.06 | ccox | well, SUV sales are down - and the automakers are dropping like flies |
| 21:09.21 | Dagmar | I bought the scooter because at the time it was going to pay itself entirely off in _less_ than two years |
| 21:09.50 | Dagmar | ccox: Yeah but they're still moving lots of SUVs by what's being sold |
| 21:10.11 | ccox | last I saw, the numbers were still way down for SUVs, though some still sell |
| 21:10.16 | Lunessa | I have a small SUV |
| 21:10.28 | Dagmar | Aside from the whole "effing winter" thing, it was a no-brainer for me to buy a vehicle that would be fully paid for by gas savings before it's extended warranty could even run out |
| 21:10.48 | Dagmar | I go about 22 miles a day |
| 21:11.20 | Lunessa | Dagmar: I don't drive that much. 5-10 miles a day unless I do something out of the ordinary. |
| 21:12.52 | Dagmar | Well, I drive seven out of fourteen days to work |
| 21:12.57 | ZorbaTHut | personally, I buy used cars |
| 21:13.09 | ZorbaTHut | even cheaper ;) |
| 21:13.13 | Dagmar | Very minor benefit of a 12-hour shift |
| 21:13.31 | Dagmar | Meh. The four-wheeler I drive I paid $2k for. BMW 325i |
| 21:13.40 | Dagmar | It's a little white roller-skate |
| 21:14.03 | Dagmar | ...which needs the radio replaced now. *sigh* |
| 21:14.14 | Dagmar | Kinda sad when the bike has a more functional stereo than the car |
| 21:17.55 | Lunessa | Surprisingly entertaining: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWhUeAy35qc |
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| 22:37.24 | kd3 | so could someone poke the patch note writers? |
| 22:37.36 | kd3 | You can now query for a list of completed quests with "QueryQuestsCompleted()" then wait for the "QUEST_QUERY_COMPLETE" event, and call "etQuestsCompleted(<luatable>)". |
| 22:37.40 | kd3 | there's a G missing there... |
| 22:40.17 | Sesshu | stupid patch note writers |
| 22:40.27 | Sesshu | they can't write get |
| 22:40.30 | Sesshu | tz tz |
| 22:44.53 | Cide | it's supposed to be "ehQuestsCompleted()" |
| 22:45.36 | Cide | Iriel: are you good at devising algorithms by any chance? |
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| 22:46.02 | Cide | or anyone else for that matter |
| 22:46.05 | ZorbaTHut | I am |
| 22:46.07 | ZorbaTHut | whatcha need? |
| 22:46.08 | Cide | (yes, I brought this up before) |
| 22:46.40 | Cide | given a set of coordinates {c1, c2, c3, ..., cN}, I need to find all elements in the set that are not fully surrounded by other elements of the same set |
| 22:46.58 | Cide | "fully surrounded" meaning they have 8 neighbors |
| 22:47.16 | ZorbaTHut | how big is the set, how big is the coordinate plane, and how efficient does it have to be? |
| 22:47.21 | Cide | the intuitive solution is O(8n) |
| 22:47.49 | Cide | the set is usually in the range of ~30 elements but sometimes more, sometimes less |
| 22:48.05 | ZorbaTHut | yeah just go with the intuitive solution unless it's vastly too slow |
| 22:48.06 | Cide | the coordinate plane is probably around [0, 200] on both axes |
| 22:48.11 | ZorbaTHut | I suspect that's about as good as you can realistically get |
| 22:48.36 | Cide | yeah, you may be right |
| 22:48.50 | Cide | maybe I can make the recalculations less heavy |
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| 22:54.03 | Iriel | Can you determine the 'center of mass' and then work out which are on the outside |
| 23:01.44 | foxlit | You could do scanline in O(screen size) |
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| 23:05.25 | Iriel | Hm, I just realized you're probably talking about a 'chessboard' sort of arrangement |
| 23:05.29 | Iriel | Rather than 'free' points |
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| 23:07.40 | Cide | I'll describe my scenario in more detail in a sec |
| 23:10.03 | Iriel | This sounds Go-ish |
| 23:10.45 | Iriel | If you can sort the points by one axis then the other, then i'd... |
| 23:11.04 | Iriel | 1) Scan each row and identify each point that has a neighbor on both sides (You can do that as a single pass through the sorted points) |
| 23:11.57 | Cide | I have a list of coordinates as well as a map from coordinate -> color. if two neighbors have the same color, they form an "island", and several points join up likewise to form a blob. I need to draw an outline around each blob/island (and thus identify which points are part of said outline) |
| 23:12.50 | Cide | yes, sorting by one axis is trivial |
| 23:12.50 | Iriel | 2) Create a temp dataset containg column positions and 'consecutive 'full' row cells, staringout empty for the row before the first ddata row |
| 23:13.04 | Iriel | 3) Loop over each row doing a 'merge' comparison of the temp dataset and the step 1 result for that row, keep a count of how many 'cells you have seen consecutively for a given column, whenever it hits 3 (or more) you'e found an 'interior' cell |
| 23:13.23 | Iriel | It's a bit hard to explain in words, but hopefully it's making sense. |
| 23:14.58 | NightHawkTheSane | sighs |
| 23:15.03 | Dagmar | Just know that this is thesis-paper territory, and take comfort in that. |
| 23:15.10 | NightHawkTheSane | wiping with anub <1% is fail. >< |
| 23:15.35 | Iriel | You can actually do the whole thing in a single pass |
| 23:15.46 | ZorbaTHut | nighthawk, my guild got the faction first anub10h kill |
| 23:15.54 | ZorbaTHut | almost everyone was dead, and it was a near-certain wipe |
| 23:16.01 | ZorbaTHut | half the people had released and didn't get the achievement |
| 23:16.07 | Iriel | You essentially remember where the 'might indicate a non-edge on the next row' cells are from the previous row |
| 23:16.09 | NightHawkTheSane | haha |
| 23:16.13 | NightHawkTheSane | thats awesome :) |
| 23:16.20 | ZorbaTHut | I don't know if that's better or worse than wiping at <1%, but it's comparable ;) |
| 23:16.38 | NightHawkTheSane | how about wiping at <1% twice.. in a row. >< |
| 23:16.43 | ZorbaTHut | ouch. that's a bitch |
| 23:16.45 | kd3 | ouch |
| 23:16.47 | NightHawkTheSane | granted, its apug |
| 23:16.55 | ZorbaTHut | worst wipe I had was wiping on Kologarn at three digits of HP left |
| 23:17.53 | Wobin | ZorbaTHut, hehe "nooooo moooore dotssss!" |
| 23:18.03 | Cide | Iriel: I'm mostly following, but what do you mean with "'consecutive 'full' row cells"? |
| 23:18.06 | ZorbaTHut | though I do have a screenshot somewhere of a raid and a BT boss killing each other at the same moment. got the killing blow at the exact moment the boss killed the last player |
| 23:18.28 | Dagmar | Blizzard's race conditions are full of hate |
| 23:18.31 | Wobin | ZorbaTHut, reminds me of that pally =) |
| 23:18.34 | Lopeppeppy | 1.9% = less than 1%, don't forget. :) |
| 23:19.27 | Lopeppeppy | That last percent in WoW is a mighty big percent. |
| 23:19.43 | Shirik | (19:18:49)  -⺠That channel doesn't exist (Shirik|AFK) |
| 23:19.44 | Iriel | Cide: I think I was overcomplicating it a little, but basically... |
| 23:19.45 | Shirik | o.O |
| 23:19.53 | Iriel | if row 1 is 011100 |
| 23:20.00 | Iriel | and row 2 is 011110 |
| 23:20.13 | Iriel | then row1 (first pass) becomes 001000 |
| 23:20.20 | Iriel | row2 (first pass) becomes 001100 |
| 23:20.32 | Iriel | then row1 (second pass) is 001000 |
| 23:20.42 | Iriel | and row2 (second pass) is 002100 |
| 23:20.50 | ZorbaTHut | feels this is a vast overcomplication :P |
| 23:21.03 | Iriel | the '2' because you've had a 1 in that column for 2 consecutive rows |
| 23:21.23 | Iriel | ZorbaTHut: An implementation doesn't actually have to store all that much intermediate data |
| 23:21.44 | Iriel | A simple linked list (or array) style previous-row state is all you actually need to store |
| 23:22.32 | Iriel | if I wasn't getting ready to go out for dinner i'd offer to write a demo implementation |
| 23:22.32 | ZorbaTHut | cide, out of curiosity, how speed-sensitive is this actually? |
| 23:22.45 | Cide | I think I'm following |
| 23:22.52 | Cide | thanks Iriel, and enjoy dinner |
| 23:23.29 | Shirik | I see how it is Cide |
| 23:23.36 | Cide | ZorbaTHut: not *extremely*, but overall I'm dealing with pretty large datasets |
| 23:23.40 | Shirik | (19:18:37) (+Cide) [18:45:36] Iriel: are you good at devising algorithms by any chance? |
| 23:23.41 | Shirik | (19:18:37) (+Cide) [18:46:02] or anyone else for that matter |
| 23:23.45 | Shirik | you don't come to me anymore :( |
| 23:23.53 | Cide | Shirik: scroll up |
| 23:23.58 | Shirik | I did |
| 23:24.06 | Cide | <Cide> Shirik|AFK: ping |
| 23:24.06 | Cide | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:24.12 | Shirik | uh |
| 23:24.15 | Shirik | that's not in my playback :/ |
| 23:24.19 | Cide | it was hours ago :P |
| 23:24.23 | ZorbaTHut | cide, seriously, implement it the basic way and see if it's a bottleneck |
| 23:24.26 | ZorbaTHut | it almost certainly won't be |
| 23:24.31 | Shirik | it should still be there |
| 23:24.35 | Shirik | unless it was like yesterday |
| 23:24.38 | Cide | nah |
| 23:24.41 | Cide | like 6h ago maybe |
| 23:24.44 | ZorbaTHut | and this way you'll also avoid all the messiness and near-guaranteed bugs with doing something crazy complex |
| 23:24.44 | Cide | less |
| 23:24.46 | Iriel | Cide: Thanks for the problem - i enjoy those kinds of mental challenges (like 'what's the optimal game of life implementation using the amiga blitter') |
| 23:24.54 | Shirik | maybe my buffer size is too small |
| 23:24.58 | Cide | yeah, I enjoy them too which is why I started thinking about it |
| 23:25.00 | Shirik | I thought it was 50k lines though |
| 23:25.18 | Cide | the intuitive solution isn't that bad -- O(8n) |
| 23:25.25 | Shirik | == O(n) |
| 23:25.56 | Cide | == O(n) for very large n |
| 23:25.57 | Iriel | I /think/ my solution ends up O(n log n) (or O(n) if the input is pre-sorted, and you dont care about the order of output) |
| 23:26.31 | Iriel | Assuming you can represent the whole dataset in an array |
| 23:26.37 | Cide | yup |
| 23:27.00 | Iriel | mine only needs enough storage for one row, the actual points can be streamed past |
| 23:27.02 | Iriel | (in order) |
| 23:27.07 | Shirik | @#wowuidev | Joined | yes | 50000 | +cgnt | 151 | 10 | 7 | |
| 23:27.11 | Shirik | I have a 50k line buffer on #wowuidev |
| 23:27.14 | Shirik | I think you're making it up Cide |
| 23:27.29 | Cide | grep for "given a set of (x, y) coords" |
| 23:28.08 | Shirik | (14:21:47) (Cide) [11:21:07] given a set of (x, y) coords, I need to compute outlines of all groups in the set in the most efficient way possible |
| 23:28.10 | Shirik | I responded to that |
| 23:28.18 | Shirik | and that was 9 hour sago :P |
| 23:28.31 | Cide | when? |
| 23:29.05 | Shirik | (14:23:11) (@Shirik) Cide: pong |
| 23:29.11 | Shirik | 3 hours later |
| 23:29.16 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 23:29.16 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 23:29.16 | cogwheel | http://cogwheel.info/upload/files/LateAchiever.png |
| 23:29.18 | Cide | yeah, I wasn't online numbnuts |
| 23:29.24 | Shirik | well now whose fault is that |
| 23:29.28 | Shirik | I wasn't online when you asked me |
| 23:29.35 | Shirik | but I still took teh time to respond |
| 23:29.37 | Cide | right back at you :P |
| 23:29.41 | Cide | I don't have a bouncer |
| 23:29.46 | Shirik | not my problem |
| 23:30.02 | Cide | seems like it to me! |
| 23:30.20 | Shirik | :P |
| 23:36.24 | Cide | anyway, it still means "<Shirik> you don't come to me anymore :(" is a blatant lie |
| 23:37.37 | Shirik | who was telling me about soy vay teriyaki sauce? |
| 23:38.25 | Cide | cogwheel: nice one |
| 23:39.22 | Wobin | soy vey? |
| 23:39.31 | Wobin | Is that like.. vegetarian jewish? |
| 23:40.24 | cogwheel | Shirik: i was |
| 23:40.57 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 23:40.57 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 23:41.44 | Thunder_Child | Wobin, no, marketing gimic |
| 23:46.11 | Lopeppeppy | I now must re-watch the Kosher Crackers episode of Foamy. :) |
| 23:47.45 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@user-1121li0.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 23:48.56 | Shirik | cogwheel: I grabbed some today |
| 23:49.01 | Shirik | we shall see how it turns out tomorrow |
| 23:50.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper1 (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-057-247-030.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:57.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@ool-44c20717.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:58.07 | Fisker | slaps Shirik around a bit with a large trout |
| 23:58.09 | Fisker | Shirik |
| 23:58.12 | Fisker | you're killing me |
| 23:59.04 | Shirik | dieeeeeeeeee |
| 23:59.45 | Kraps | evening, fellow murderers |
