| 00:00.11 | Adys | The French have got all kinds of wild descriptions for eggs cooked to various degrees of doneness |
| 00:00.11 | Adys | its true |
| 00:00.28 | Lopeppeppy | No, bacon is not my thing. |
| 00:00.36 | Wobin | Le Oeurve! |
| 00:00.37 | Lopeppeppy | Cook me an excellent alfredo sauce and I swoon |
| 00:01.01 | Wobin | not bosciaola?! |
| 00:01.30 | Adys | I was amazed that brits eat a lot more eggs than the french, yet you people only ever call boiled eggs "boiled eggs" |
| 00:03.10 | Lopeppeppy | I call them "travesty" or "deviled eggs waiting to be prepared properly" |
| 00:03.37 | *** join/#wowuidev theorb (n=theorb@91.84.53.6) |
| 00:06.04 | Wobin | a boiled egg is a great quick snack |
| 00:06.15 | Wobin | (and a good way to store unused eggs) |
| 00:06.48 | Wobin | Adys, do you need more description than "hard boiled" and "soft boiled"? =) |
| 00:06.53 | Wobin | (and "rubber") |
| 00:09.35 | Cloudwolf | Give me eggs that have flavor and i'll eat em... else i'll put a crap load of salt on them |
| 00:11.54 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (n=Mike@c-68-38-45-3.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 00:17.04 | Adys | Wobin: matter of fact i do |
| 00:18.02 | Adys | like i go camping, I'll boil them very long until the yolk has shelled brown |
| 00:19.09 | Adys | the ones I prefer are hard boiled, but just enough to still be a bit liquid inside |
| 00:19.13 | Lopeppeppy | Eeeew. |
| 00:19.15 | Adys | but not actually liquid, just spongious |
| 00:19.16 | Lopeppeppy | Runny eggs are baaad. |
| 00:20.00 | Adys | if I make an egg salad they'll be somewhere between soft boiled and hard boiled, kinda liquid |
| 00:20.14 | Lopeppeppy | *wince* |
| 00:20.41 | Thunder_Child | agreed Lopeppeppy |
| 00:20.43 | Adys | if i put them in a carbonara or something similar, they'll be soft boiled, liquid inside |
| 00:20.51 | Adys | anyway we got words for all this stuff |
| 00:20.54 | Thunder_Child | if you can drink your eggs, something is wrong |
| 00:21.49 | Adys | I dont like them actually liquid |
| 00:21.50 | Adys | as i said |
| 00:21.52 | Adys | spongious |
| 00:22.01 | Tarnovo | Hey fellas. |
| 00:22.05 | Tarnovo | http://pastebin.com/d4a653f19 |
| 00:22.11 | Adys | basically |
| 00:22.12 | Adys | http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/images/09242009timing.jpg |
| 00:22.12 | Tarnovo | how can i change the texture xolor useing lua? |
| 00:22.15 | Adys | we got words for all that ^ |
| 00:23.03 | Cloudwolf | adys the kind i like are the ones that are bottom right and 1 from bottom right |
| 00:23.10 | Cloudwolf | ones that arnt gewpy |
| 00:23.36 | Adys | bottomleft is the one I prefer |
| 00:23.39 | Adys | its called Mollet |
| 00:24.02 | Cloudwolf | soooo dont even understand all them kinds |
| 00:24.36 | Tarnovo | any ideas? |
| 00:25.32 | Adys | Tarnovo: we dont actually have any lua developer in here |
| 00:25.39 | Adys | you should try #friedeggs |
| 00:25.41 | Tarnovo | Dammit :D |
| 00:26.18 | Cloudwolf | #friedeggs has taken over wowuidev and vise versa |
| 00:26.32 | Adys | Bloody netsplits, eh? |
| 00:27.00 | Cloudwolf | any non egg related discussions will have you kicked in the eggs and sent to #friedeggs |
| 00:27.29 | Adys | Also damn you all |
| 00:27.36 | Adys | now Im off to cook some eggs |
| 00:29.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 00:29.33 | Shirik | Adys |
| 00:29.39 | Shirik | you are being more Fisker than usual |
| 00:29.55 | Adys | Fisker probably can't cook eggs |
| 00:30.09 | Adys | a slice of bacon |
| 00:30.11 | Cairenn | it's amusing how "Fisker" has become an adjective |
| 00:30.12 | Adys | a slice of ham |
| 00:30.21 | Adys | an ounce of cheese |
| 00:30.40 | Adys | red and black pepper |
| 00:31.03 | Adys | and a bunch of sweet, sweet greek rice |
| 00:36.32 | Lopeppeppy | I had kettle corn for a night snack tonight. Nom nom nom. |
| 00:36.41 | Lopeppeppy | I noticed that the other day Cairenn, very amusing! |
| 00:36.51 | Cairenn | heheh |
| 00:38.22 | NeoTron | perfect eggs: solid white, runny yolk |
| 00:38.37 | Lopeppeppy | Perfect eggs... the ones someone else eats |
| 00:38.40 | NeoTron | alternatively, raw whipped together with sugar |
| 00:39.11 | Cloudwolf | so dont want to try those neo |
| 00:40.17 | Corrodias | perfect eggs: yolk replaced entirely with salmonella bacteria |
| 00:40.23 | NeoTron | ofc raw egg is best eaten mixed with various ingredients for making cookies or cake |
| 00:40.55 | Cloudwolf | i never understood why people liked eating raw cookie dough |
| 00:41.04 | Cloudwolf | all the cookie dough was allways too salty or grainy or just nasty |
| 00:41.08 | NeoTron | a raw egg yolk can be good on pasta too |
| 00:41.18 | NeoTron | you must have had some really nasty cookies then |
| 00:41.31 | NeoTron | salty? grainy? wtf. whole wheat salt cookies? |
| 00:41.33 | Cloudwolf | actualy the cookies turned out ok |
| 00:41.53 | Cloudwolf | and not grainy as in wheat grains |
| 00:41.59 | NeoTron | seriously though I have never had any cookie dough that matches your description. either of them |
| 00:41.59 | Cloudwolf | grainy as in the texture kinda chunky |
| 00:43.09 | Adys | [03:40:46] <Cloudwolf> i never understood why people liked eating raw cookie dough |
| 00:43.10 | Adys | omg |
| 00:43.17 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, god. |
| 00:43.21 | Adys | raw cookie dough, when its VERY well done |
| 00:43.22 | NeoTron | things that are less likely to happen to me than a car accident, and likely to be less serious, doesn't bother me |
| 00:43.24 | Lopeppeppy | Raw cookie dough is just... omg. |
| 00:43.29 | Adys | its the most amazing thign |
| 00:43.54 | NeoTron | mind you, some cookie dough is horrid |
| 00:43.54 | Lopeppeppy | Try the dough from Peppy Cookies, you won't be disappointed! |
| 00:43.56 | Adys | my aunt used to make amazing dough |
| 00:43.57 | NeoTron | so I'll give you that |
| 00:44.17 | Adys | i usually asked her to keep a part uncooked |
| 00:44.19 | Cloudwolf | Out of all of you guys who lives in the United States |
| 00:44.24 | NeoTron | I have this good old family cake recipe that makes the most amazing uncooked snack |
| 00:44.34 | theorbtwo | doesn't -- England. |
| 00:44.44 | NeoTron | I _live_ in the US |
| 00:44.55 | NeoTron | but I was born and spent my first 20-something years in Sweden |
| 00:45.11 | Cloudwolf | well i gota say most of the crap you can buy is that crap... |
| 00:45.18 | NeoTron | BUY? |
| 00:45.19 | NeoTron | wtf |
| 00:45.24 | NeoTron | you MAKE cookie dough |
| 00:45.24 | Adys | Cloudwolf: I'm french and live in greece |
| 00:45.25 | Cloudwolf | dont want to make jsut to eat raw |
| 00:45.37 | Cloudwolf | if i make i want it cooked imo |
| 00:45.39 | theorbtwo | Heh. I _live_ in the UK, but I was born and spent my first 20-something years in the US. |
| 00:45.42 | Cloudwolf | Nice combo adys |
| 00:45.51 | Adys | Cloudwolf: moving to britain soon |
| 00:45.56 | NeoTron | basically a lot of americans are paranoid |
| 00:45.58 | NeoTron | I'm not :P |
| 00:46.00 | Adys | (C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER) |
| 00:46.16 | Cloudwolf | basically i hate americans and im a born and raised american |
| 00:46.18 | NeoTron | see my comment about car accident above |
| 00:46.19 | Cloudwolf | hows that for irony... |
| 00:47.50 | NeoTron | ""So this really means that only 0.003 % of eggs are infected. Viewed another way, only 1 in every 30,000 eggs is contaminated with salmonella, which shows how uncommon this problem actually is. Based on those numbers, the average person would come across a contaminated egg only once in 42 years." |
| 00:47.55 | NeoTron | yeah I think I really could care less |
| 00:47.59 | Cloudwolf | i want to kill mcdonalds peice of shit makes me feel sick if i eat it... also just bad i hate seeing them people who weight 300 pounds go and get extra large everything... |
| 00:48.00 | NeoTron | it's not a risk worthy of considering being a risk |
| 00:48.25 | Cloudwolf | neotron i just dont like the texture |
| 00:48.31 | Cloudwolf | im a realy realy realy texture specific person |
| 00:48.46 | Adys | Cloudwolf: why dont you help Tarnovo then |
| 00:49.01 | Cloudwolf | rofl |
| 00:49.02 | NeoTron | that's an argument I can understand |
| 00:49.03 | Cloudwolf | well played adys |
| 00:49.05 | Cloudwolf | well played |
| 00:49.19 | NeoTron | for example any and all mushrooms have horrid textures |
| 00:49.20 | Cloudwolf | I mean somethings flavor would have to be SPECTACULAR for me to overlook the texture |
| 00:49.34 | NeoTron | and even though I hate the flavor, I can't even eat them when their original flavor is cooked away |
| 00:49.46 | Cloudwolf | I dislike shredded coconut due to its grittyness its flavor is fine tho |
| 00:50.00 | NeoTron | coconut isn't very interesting by itself |
| 00:51.05 | Cloudwolf | well im not tlaking aobut by itself |
| 00:52.00 | Cloudwolf | I mean shredded coconut on anything honestly |
| 00:54.03 | Lopeppeppy | Mmm, coconut. |
| 00:54.08 | Lopeppeppy | Macaroons. |
| 00:59.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Tarnovo (i=502941f7@gateway/web/freenode/x-feccfcgdsabqkszg) |
| 01:01.59 | Tarnovo | anyone aboot? |
| 01:02.09 | Lopeppeppy | Many are. |
| 01:05.16 | Thunder_Child | except Lopeppeppy, who be a figment of our imaginations |
| 01:08.19 | Lopeppeppy | At least you admit now that it takes a collective imagination to dream up a being as wonderful and unique as a Peppy. |
| 01:08.23 | Lopeppeppy | beams at Thunder_Child. |
| 01:09.12 | Thunder_Child | uhhh...you do realize what group of people you are talking about dont you Lopeppeppy? |
| 01:09.31 | Lopeppeppy | Yes, a very unique and imaginative crowd of wonderful geeks. |
| 01:09.46 | Thunder_Child | blinks at Lopeppeppy |
| 01:09.56 | Thunder_Child | i want what you're on |
| 01:12.02 | Lopeppeppy | TC, did you miss the part where it was Morgans and bad movies night? |
| 01:12.29 | Thunder_Child | Lopeppeppy, well yes actually |
| 01:12.32 | Thunder_Child | wait....another bad movie night? |
| 01:12.46 | Thunder_Child | because the shark vs octy one was horrid |
| 01:13.00 | Lopeppeppy | I know, that one was so bad it was good. |
| 01:13.09 | Lopeppeppy | Right now it's Pan's Labyrinth. Not so bad |
| 01:13.36 | Thunder_Child | no, not even my friend who likes so bad -> good movies could enjoy that movie |
| 01:14.22 | Lopeppeppy | Really? I love it. |
| 01:14.26 | Lopeppeppy | It's dark and delightful |
| 01:14.30 | Lopeppeppy | And DARK |
| 01:15.04 | Thunder_Child | uhh...dark...right |
| 01:15.22 | Thunder_Child | or you could get dark and enjoyable, like pitch black |
| 01:15.48 | Lopeppeppy | That has some fun times. Vin Diesel has a good profile from behind. |
| 01:22.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Daviesh (n=chatzill@dsl-58-6-82-5.sa.westnet.com.au) |
| 01:25.46 | kd3 | ugh |
| 01:26.22 | kd3 | getting woken up by a call from work: "<kd3>! We've had a disaster. Oh please, please, please can you come in?" |
| 01:26.25 | kd3 | grrs |
| 01:26.28 | Lopeppeppy | Ugh. |
| 01:26.33 | Lopeppeppy | It sucks to be the valuable one |
| 01:27.12 | Wobin | Pan's Labryinth is awesome |
| 01:27.24 | Lopeppeppy | yay, Wobin!! |
| 01:27.47 | Wobin | It has you guessing right to the end what's real and what's not |
| 01:28.33 | Wobin | And the creepy is just the right level of omgwtf |
| 01:29.40 | Wobin | http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1806342400/tt0457430 |
| 01:30.36 | Lopeppeppy | very creepy and cool |
| 01:31.51 | Wobin | (And it had Abe Sapien in it =)) |
| 01:32.19 | Lopeppeppy | Did it? Who does he play? |
| 01:32.23 | *** join/#wowuidev mascondante (i=kvirc@99-196-56-224.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 01:32.30 | Wobin | Doug Jones |
| 01:32.42 | Wobin | He was the Pale Man =) (and the Faun) |
| 01:32.52 | Lopeppeppy | Ah. Yeah, i can see him in the Pale Man. |
| 01:33.02 | Wobin | He also played the Imps in DOOM |
| 01:33.24 | kd3 | so wow. I've been offline for less than a day and the prez gets the nobel peace prize? wow |
| 01:33.27 | Wobin | And the Silver Surfer in the Fantastic Four movie |
| 01:34.03 | Wobin | omg |
| 01:34.12 | Lopeppeppy | Didn't see that, Wobin |
| 01:34.17 | Wobin | he also was one of the Gentlemen in that btvs episode |
| 01:34.21 | Wobin | I can totally see that =) |
| 01:34.53 | Wobin | That was one of the creepiest episodes, imo |
| 01:34.58 | Wobin | "Hush" |
| 01:35.15 | Lopeppeppy | btvs? |
| 01:35.26 | Wobin | Buffy The Vampire Slayer |
| 01:35.33 | Lopeppeppy | I can see his hand movements in the faun too, now that you point it out. |
| 01:50.09 | Adys | [04:35:06] <+Lopeppeppy> btvs? |
| 01:50.15 | Adys | Bob the vile slut |
| 01:50.41 | Lopeppeppy | *ppppphhhhhttttttbbbbbtttttttpppppp* |
| 01:54.12 | Thunder_Child | more like bob the viking sailor |
| 01:54.24 | Lopeppeppy | Rawr. Much more my speed. |
| 01:54.28 | Lopeppeppy | Although I did like some of Buffy |
| 01:54.45 | Thunder_Child | s/bob/brunhilda/ |
| 01:54.59 | Lopeppeppy | Not for me. |
| 02:00.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 02:00.36 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn] by ChanServ |
| 02:05.14 | NightHawkTheSane | man, logitech's mouse design is fucking impressive |
| 02:08.52 | Lopeppeppy | :) |
| 02:09.09 | Lopeppeppy | Night, everypeople. Time for good little Peppy's to be off to dream of sugarplums and stuff. |
| 02:25.01 | *** join/#wowuidev ccox (n=ccox@c-76-21-106-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:27.56 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 02:29.37 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=doingwha@unaffiliated/dwsr) |
| 02:34.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Lothaer (n=jamiecoo@115-166-25-86.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 02:34.57 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lothaer] by ChanServ |
| 02:36.35 | mikma | wobin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg <- it's almost like porn, eh? |
| 02:47.38 | mikma | cairenn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lXh2n0aPyw |
| 02:48.07 | mikma | shirik: one for you too, http://www.geekologie.com/2009/10/genius_a_mug_with_a_cookie_hol.php |
| 02:48.37 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 02:49.02 | Cairenn | that's cute |
| 02:54.01 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|hate`net (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 02:55.26 | Wobin | my god |
| 02:55.28 | Wobin | 10 min of this |
| 02:55.33 | Wobin | it really -is- like porn |
| 02:55.42 | Wobin | (with possibly a better soundtrack) |
| 02:57.53 | Wobin | mikma, hm, that mugh has less room for -drink- |
| 02:57.54 | Wobin | =\ |
| 02:58.12 | Bibi | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvTpDaI-nEw |
| 02:58.24 | Bibi | This video is still being processed. Video quality may improve once processing is complete. |
| 02:58.40 | *** join/#wowuidev yaroot (n=yaroot@116.234.199.194) |
| 02:58.46 | Wobin | Bibi, hehe was just about to say, "need a HD version!" |
| 02:58.54 | Bibi | I know. |
| 02:59.18 | Lothaer | sup guys and gals |
| 03:00.04 | Wobin | I have to say... |
| 03:00.04 | Wobin | -everything- looks awesome on a tauren |
| 03:02.35 | BWMerlin | Wobin: Can't wait till my Tauren pally |
| 03:02.39 | Wobin | ... hunter T10? |
| 03:02.40 | Wobin | wtf |
| 03:02.47 | Wobin | wtftf? |
| 03:03.06 | Wobin | that... is the stupidest looking helm in a very long time |
| 03:03.34 | Wobin | and are the shoulders smouldering or something? =P |
| 03:03.53 | Wobin | BWMerlin, I hope you have "HolyCow" reserved on your server |
| 03:04.01 | BWMerlin | :O |
| 03:04.07 | BWMerlin | thats an awesome name |
| 03:04.15 | BWMerlin | didn't even think of that |
| 03:04.24 | BWMerlin | as soon as i get some more wow time i doing that |
| 03:04.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 03:05.00 | Wobin | Or Retrimootion |
| 03:05.18 | Wobin | I take it back |
| 03:05.23 | Wobin | Druids T10 looks stupider =P |
| 03:06.20 | BWMerlin | agreed i just took a look at the druids and was going to say if you thought the hunters dick head looked back check out the druids |
| 03:07.55 | Wobin | Rogue's looks -creepy= |
| 03:07.59 | Wobin | not very stealthy mind you |
| 03:08.05 | Wobin | just very BigDaddyish |
| 03:08.15 | Adys | looks like putress |
| 03:08.17 | Wobin | damnit, I want my Tauren rogue now |
| 03:08.32 | Wobin | (SNEAK SNEAK SNEAK) |
| 03:08.42 | BWMerlin | was that steak steak steak |
| 03:08.53 | mikma | wobin: hehe, told ya ^^ |
| 03:09.16 | BWMerlin | they would have to redo all the rogues stuff |
| 03:09.36 | BWMerlin | because think about it, if you got sapped by a tauren rogue you are going to know about it |
| 03:09.52 | BWMerlin | it would smash your skull in |
| 03:10.18 | BWMerlin | not to mention things like kick, could you imagine being kicked by a cow, thats going to hurt |
| 03:12.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 03:12.49 | Wobin | hehe it'd be AWESOME |
| 03:13.10 | Wobin | BWMerlin, You'd also -really- not be casting or moving at that point! |
| 03:13.26 | BWMerlin | my point exactly |
| 03:13.46 | BWMerlin | its going to interrupt more then your spell casting |
| 03:14.19 | BWMerlin | you thought stun locking was bad before wait until an angry cow gets a go at you |
| 03:14.57 | mikma | wobin: http://mikma.eu/l4d/l4d_airport02_offices0001.jpg |
| 03:15.21 | Wobin | mikma, nice tag |
| 03:22.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 03:24.57 | *** join/#wowuidev robotusch (n=robotusc@50A2DBFE.flatrate.dk) |
| 03:42.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (n=gryphon@76.104.164.148) |
| 03:44.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu| (n=Sesshu@ip-71-18.travedsl.de) |
| 03:45.50 | Cloudwolf | am i the only oen whos questioning how a 4% chance on ret tier 10 set got buffed to 40% AND that it got changed from being a 4piece requirement to a 2piece?' |
| 03:46.24 | Adys | yes |
| 03:46.28 | Adys | its placeholder |
| 03:46.31 | Adys | its ptr |
| 03:46.34 | Adys | its first days of ptr |
| 03:46.41 | Cloudwolf | i hope its place holder |
| 03:46.42 | Adys | the patch hits in 3 months |
| 03:46.45 | Adys | its placeholder |
| 03:46.51 | Adys | please disregard any percentage |
| 03:46.52 | Adys | please |
| 03:46.54 | doobius | sigh these set bonuses are gonna be ridiculous in arena |
| 03:46.54 | Adys | its placeholder |
| 03:46.59 | Adys | ITS PLACEHOLDER |
| 03:47.06 | Adys | how blind are you? |
| 03:47.10 | Cloudwolf | redlohecalp |
| 03:47.33 | Cloudwolf | hey i got it the first couple of times doobius just said hwat i said |
| 03:47.35 | Cloudwolf | lol |
| 03:47.44 | Adys | I know |
| 03:49.12 | NightHawkTheSane | so... |
| 03:49.18 | NightHawkTheSane | how about those set bonuses on the ptr? crazy eh? :D |
| 03:49.24 | ScytheBlade1 | winner |
| 03:49.42 | Cloudwolf | i do however like the rogues chacne to add 3 combo points |
| 03:59.39 | Shirik | ... |
| 04:00.08 | Thunder_Child | .... |
| 04:00.20 | Shirik | Aion just crashed because it tried to use 4 GB of memory |
| 04:01.22 | Thunder_Child | thats impressive, the only game i have played that used more ram then WoW is GTA IV |
| 04:01.28 | ZorbaBeta | oh man the set bonuses on warrior gear are awesome! I can't wait to use exactly those set bonuses, as I am sure they will not be modified |
| 04:05.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Random (n=Denial@unaffiliated/windaria) |
| 04:08.51 | BWMerlin | the tank warrior 4pc seems interesting |
| 04:09.09 | Wobin | http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/513760 |
| 04:09.10 | BWMerlin | on the one had i have already glyphed for blood rage doesnt cost health |
| 04:09.31 | BWMerlin | but on the other hand absorbing 20% of your health is pretty good |
| 04:10.05 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/208875745 |
| 04:26.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|Ghost (n=mpdelbuo@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 04:26.35 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik|Ghost] by ChanServ |
| 04:26.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyn- (n=zyn@h243n2-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 04:27.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobble (n=Wobin@124-170-157-210.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 04:31.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu (n=Sesshu@ip-71-18.travedsl.de) |
| 04:49.27 | Thunder_Child | has anyone seen OSS 117? |
| 05:01.22 | Jerub | as in, opensolaris? |
| 05:02.03 | Thunder_Child | it's a movie |
| 05:04.07 | NightHawkTheSane | YOU'RE a movie |
| 05:06.34 | Jerub | your mother is a movie. |
| 05:11.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaelten (n=Kaelten@li48-210.members.linode.com) |
| 05:14.05 | Thunder_Child | you know with touch screens becoming more common there really should be a way to make full screen applications not be disturbed by a lack of focus |
| 05:14.47 | Adys | Someone *please* help me |
| 05:14.48 | Adys | http://db.mmo-champion.com/adys/owl.jpg |
| 05:14.53 | Adys | where have I seen this before? |
| 05:16.02 | Thunder_Child | tinyeye hasent seen it yet |
| 05:16.10 | Adys | tried it already |
| 05:16.15 | Thunder_Child | but it does remind be of that old cartoon |
| 05:17.10 | Adys | http://bric-a-brac.org/humour/images/informatique/le_chat_internet.gif |
| 05:17.11 | Adys | him? |
| 05:17.35 | Thunder_Child | peabody. though i dont know if it's from there |
| 05:25.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 05:27.23 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 05:27.23 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 05:54.05 | Thunder_Child | the fighting in old shows is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad |
| 05:56.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras_ (n=Sargeras@75.80.16.10) |
| 05:59.55 | Jerub | what's the name of that armory site that i should be using? |
| 06:00.11 | Adys | db.mmo-champion.com |
| 06:00.21 | Bibi | wowdb.com |
| 06:00.28 | Adys | thottbot.com |
| 06:01.00 | Jerub | uh, for figuring out how to upgrade my toon? |
| 06:01.20 | Adys | http://just-run-toc.com |
| 06:01.51 | Jerub | lol, i'm already in all epics, i'm looking for >ilvl 216 now. |
| 06:02.01 | Jerub | and enchants and stuff |
| 06:02.17 | Adys | http://just-run-toc.com/toc25 |
| 06:02.19 | Jerub | :( i found out just before running OS10 with my guild that my tank spec wasn't even hit capped. geraing fail. |
| 06:02.40 | Jerub | yeah, did a fail pug of toc25 last night. killed icehowl and wiped on jaxx a dozen times |
| 06:03.54 | Adys | http://www.someoneoncetoldme.com/gallery/07102008 |
| 06:03.57 | Adys | thats impressive |
| 06:04.04 | Adys | and a remarkable feat if true |
| 06:04.15 | *** join/#wowuidev DWSR (n=doingwha@unaffiliated/dwsr) |
| 06:05.11 | Jerub | Adys: what, the bicycle thing? or wiping on jaxx? |
| 06:05.38 | Adys | doing makeup while cycling |
| 06:06.14 | NightHawkTheSane | mildly hard to believe |
| 06:06.16 | NightHawkTheSane | but i can see it |
| 06:06.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko1 (n=Testing@adsl-068-159-119-207.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net) |
| 06:06.51 | Thunder_Child | Jerub, try http://be.imba.hu/ |
| 06:06.56 | Jerub | Thunder_Child: that's the one! |
| 06:07.02 | Wobin | or wow-heroes |
| 06:07.03 | Thunder_Child | ^_^ |
| 06:07.33 | *** join/#wowuidev WobWork1 (n=Wobwork@136.136.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 06:07.56 | Wobin | crazy |
| 06:07.56 | Wobin | pokes wobwork1 |
| 06:08.42 | Thunder_Child | lol |
| 06:08.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Taroven (n=Taroven@HW-ESR1-208-102-197-5.fuse.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 06:08.42 | Adys | Wobin: dont do that |
| 06:08.48 | Wobin | =( |
| 06:08.53 | Wobin | I'm upsetting the laws of physics, aren't I =( |
| 06:10.16 | Wobin | What I want from Blizzard |
| 06:10.18 | *** join/#wowuidev klip (n=klip@shelob.klapka.cz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 06:10.23 | Wobin | is a walking animation for my birdform |
| 06:10.29 | *** join/#wowuidev jnwhiteh (n=jnwhiteh@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 06:10.29 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o jnwhiteh] by ChanServ |
| 06:10.35 | Wobin | and if they can use the Mynah bird from that cartoon, it'd be AWESOME |
| 06:10.43 | *** join/#wowuidev msoul (i=msoul@meridian.sosdg.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 06:10.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Kemayo (n=Kemayo@adsl-76-214-53-246.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:10.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Stanzilla (n=Stan@irc.kuja.in) |
| 06:12.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 06:14.36 | Jerub | hm, seems i need to spend some money on enchants. |
| 06:24.41 | Dagmar | It happens |
| 06:32.04 | *** join/#wowuidev SNiLD (i=snild@a91-153-155-143.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 06:36.04 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 06:38.31 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 06:38.31 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 06:41.18 | Fisker | Jerub |
| 06:42.46 | *** part/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 06:42.50 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 06:43.05 | DWSR | Wobin: Does epic flight form not have a walking anim? |
| 06:43.42 | ScytheBlade1 | DWSR: for druids, no |
| 06:44.04 | DWSR | we talking about actually walking, or just moving along the ground in general? |
| 06:44.16 | ScytheBlade1 | both |
| 06:44.22 | ScytheBlade1 | they hover over the ground |
| 06:44.28 | ScytheBlade1 | (normal and epic) |
| 06:44.36 | DWSR | fail. |
| 06:45.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Their legs are too short to maintain normal run speeds |
| 06:45.17 | ScytheBlade1 | They /have/ to fly to keep up |
| 06:45.43 | DWSR | They could hop. |
| 06:46.06 | ScytheBlade1 | While using their wings, sure |
| 06:46.11 | ScytheBlade1 | At which point they are more or less flying! |
| 06:46.35 | DWSR | ScytheBlade1: Not really. =\ |
| 06:46.42 | ScytheBlade1 | In any case |
| 06:46.46 | ScytheBlade1 | They fly over the ground |
| 06:46.51 | ScytheBlade1 | While "walking" |
| 06:46.57 | DWSR | Never noticed. |
| 06:47.14 | DWSR | Most druids I know only use epic flight form if they need the instant cast. |
| 06:47.20 | DWSR | Otherwise they use a normal mount. |
| 06:47.28 | ScytheBlade1 | I... |
| 06:47.31 | ScytheBlade1 | Most druids you know are broken. |
| 06:47.34 | ScytheBlade1 | That is all. |
| 06:47.45 | DWSR | lol |
| 06:48.59 | DWSR | which I didn't realy understand, up until I played a warlock. |
| 06:49.03 | DWSR | really* |
| 06:49.07 | DWSR | At which point I understood perfectly. |
| 06:49.10 | Fisker | slaps Gnarfoz around a bit with a large trout |
| 06:49.41 | DWSR | ~Fisker++ |
| 06:49.42 | DWSR | ~Fisker-++ |
| 06:49.54 | Thunder_Child | what is -++? |
| 06:50.04 | Thunder_Child | there is ++ and -- |
| 06:50.09 | DWSR | Fisker- |
| 06:50.12 | DWSR | ++ |
| 06:50.13 | Fisker | Thunder_Child what is a _? |
| 06:50.18 | Fisker | what's a d? |
| 06:50.25 | Thunder_Child | Fisker, blank. letter |
| 06:50.34 | Fisker | zomg |
| 06:50.38 | Fisker | whati s a -? |
| 06:50.48 | DWSR | T_C: Fisker usually has a clone in here named Fisker-. |
| 06:50.54 | DWSR | So I just upvote them both. |
| 06:51.10 | Thunder_Child | DWSR, not since freenode cleaned up nicks |
| 06:51.14 | NightHawkTheSane | I miss Fisker- |
| 06:51.20 | NightHawkTheSane | he was much more amusing |
| 06:52.51 | Thunder_Child | Fisker, mathematical symbol |
| 06:52.51 | Fisker | infact Thunder_Child |
| 06:52.56 | Fisker | i was on Fisker- as late as yesterday |
| 06:52.57 | Fisker | l2p |
| 06:53.07 | Thunder_Child | ~seen Fisker- |
| 06:53.09 | purl | fisker- <i=503f4262@gateway/web/freenode/x-bheskcwisgsynmob> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 21h 30m 5s ago, saying: 'you just ordered a thousand liters of milk'. |
| 06:53.19 | NightHawkTheSane | zom |
| 06:53.20 | NightHawkTheSane | g |
| 06:53.36 | DWSR | indeed. |
| 06:53.45 | Thunder_Child | huh...go figure |
| 06:53.57 | DWSR | Thunder_Child: Do you have T_C on highlight? |
| 06:54.13 | Thunder_Child | DWSR, no actually. |
| 06:54.21 | Thunder_Child | TC yes |
| 06:54.43 | DWSR | I'm going to assume that you have TC set case-sensitive? |
| 06:54.56 | DWSR | But still, that can be accidental highlighted pretty easily. |
| 06:55.00 | Thunder_Child | thats a good question, try lower case |
| 06:55.06 | NightHawkTheSane | tc ? |
| 06:55.08 | Thunder_Child | yup |
| 06:55.23 | Thunder_Child | works for upper and lower |
| 06:55.58 | DWSR | I used to have DW set on case sensitive highlight, then I turned that off. |
| 06:56.00 | Thunder_Child | DWSR, it's actually rather rare...the last time that happened people were talking about total commandrt |
| 06:56.07 | Thunder_Child | commander( |
| 06:56.09 | Thunder_Child | ** |
| 06:56.11 | DWSR | Because people use DW for Dual Wield all the time in here. |
| 06:56.16 | DWSR | T_C: Yeah. |
| 06:56.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@86-60-150-223-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 06:56.32 | Thunder_Child | i used to get pinged for thunder bluff....i turned that off in a hurry |
| 06:56.42 | NightHawkTheSane | Actually, what boggles me is the way Amarande uses 'Night' to address me. |
| 06:56.55 | Dagmar | What's odd about that? |
| 06:56.59 | NightHawkTheSane | 'NHTS' is shorter and makes more sense |
| 06:57.13 | Dagmar | Yeah, but 'night's a word, so it's easier to type |
| 06:57.15 | NightHawkTheSane | And anyone with a sane tab-complete can just type out nig-tab usually |
| 06:57.22 | NightHawkTheSane | but thats what annoys me :P |
| 06:57.26 | Thunder_Child | raceist! |
| 06:57.26 | Dagmar | You just have to think 'night' at your fingers and they do the work |
| 06:57.28 | NightHawkTheSane | i dont want to higlight it |
| 06:57.35 | NightHawkTheSane | because it IS a word |
| 06:57.49 | Dagmar | So don't. |
| 06:58.06 | Dagmar | Anyone who's in a number of large channels has learned to mistrust nick complete |
| 06:58.11 | DWSR | That's like people using DW to highlight me. |
| 06:58.22 | DWSR | Dagmar: I haven't. =\ |
| 06:58.31 | Thunder_Child | i use tab complete all the time |
| 06:58.34 | DWSR | Dagmar: I'm just more specific and I don't tab-complete nicks without using at least 4-5 letters. |
| 06:58.42 | Thunder_Child | that why i hate Shiibot so much |
| 06:58.48 | DWSR | And I used to be in #gentoo, #ubuntu, and ##windows all at the same time. |
| 06:58.55 | DWSR | T_C: Agreed. |
| 07:06.11 | Wobin | well |
| 07:06.18 | Wobin | I'd call you Night |
| 07:06.21 | Wobin | because it's a nickname |
| 07:06.38 | DWSR | Wobin: But you're not talking to him. |
| 07:06.40 | Wobin | Although I call TC TC cause it rolls off the keyboard smoother than NHTS |
| 07:06.53 | Wobin | Principal is the same |
| 07:06.54 | DWSR | Wobin: If you were talking to him, like as in with a voice, I would see it. |
| 07:07.05 | Wobin | For you, I think of you more as "WZZR" |
| 07:07.09 | DWSR | Not really =\ |
| 07:07.22 | DWSR | :( I thought you thought of me as troll. :( |
| 07:07.27 | DWSR | Now I'm really sad. |
| 07:09.17 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSupercalifragilisticexpialidocious |
| 07:09.37 | DWSR | lol |
| 07:10.19 | DWSR | Does freenode have an irpg |
| 07:12.10 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 07:15.06 | Dagmar | A what? |
| 07:15.23 | DWSR | idlerpg |
| 07:15.43 | Dagmar | Not thta I'm aware of |
| 07:15.58 | DWSR | Dagmar: #idlerpg. :) |
| 07:16.06 | Dagmar | ZenMOO |
| 07:26.33 | Fisker | i'm gonna fuck you up Dagmar |
| 07:26.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (i=amarande@68-191-37-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 07:27.03 | Dagmar | Any particular reason? |
| 07:27.15 | Amarande | hmm, according to this post I'm reading on the forums, whoever suggested I should spec and gear for 17% rather than 14% hit may be right by 3.3 |
| 07:27.43 | Amarande | An Ensidia member is implying that we might be seeing a certain vital cog disappear from raids next patch. |
| 07:28.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Uh, 3% spell hit? |
| 07:28.21 | Amarande | Scythe: a lot of raids might be ditching the shadowpriest role |
| 07:28.27 | Amarande | (and thus, with it, the 3% spell hit bonus) |
| 07:28.39 | ScytheBlade1 | gives up early and sleeps |
| 07:28.52 | DWSR | Amarande: That was me. |
| 07:29.09 | Amarande | Scythe: A priest from as high end a guild as Ensidia is saying that shadow priests are being scaled into the freaking ground pretty much |
| 07:29.33 | Amarande | It started being a problem at 226, became a serious issue at 245, and is (according to him anyway) quite likely to push the role out of raids entirely by T10 |
| 07:29.39 | Dagmar | Blizz has kinda stated it's their goal to make things so you can get away with bringing players who are good instead of having to have just such-and-such stacked specs |
| 07:30.04 | DWSR | Dagmar: That doesn't mean that they've reached their goal. |
| 07:30.14 | Dagmar | Yeah but I have a bit of faith in them |
| 07:30.19 | Amarande | Dagmar: Good raids tended to rely on what the raid as a whole brought to the table in deciding what to itemize for, though. |
| 07:30.36 | Amarande | In this case, it's pretty obvious that you get a lot more DPS by slacking 3% spell hit on itemization and relying on a shadow priest in the raid. |
| 07:30.41 | Dagmar | They kinda demonstrated they can do this better than they've done in the past with ToC |
| 07:30.52 | Amarande | Or was pretty obvious, until this news started coming by that spriests are falling behind, rapidly |
| 07:31.15 | DWSR | Amarande: Not to mention 3% spell hit can be attained wtih boomkins |
| 07:31.20 | Amarande | Ensidia (one of the world's top guilds, if you don't know), according to one of their spriests, used to bring THREE. |
| 07:31.25 | Dagmar | You can get through the ToC stuff "undergeared" if you're smart and skilled |
| 07:31.34 | Amarande | Now they only bring one (which he points to as why his spriest has not got the TOC 25 HM achievement). |
| 07:31.51 | Amarande | yeah, I'll have to look into how well boomkins are doing. |
| 07:32.02 | Amarande | if they stay popular, we might be ok. :) |
| 07:32.05 | DWSR | They're not. |
| 07:32.19 | DWSR | Frankly, I'm quite glad that spriests are getting nerfed into the ground for DPS. |
| 07:32.26 | DWSR | 1 less class rolling on my shit |
| 07:32.34 | Dagmar | pfft |
| 07:32.35 | Amarande | it still seems clear to me that re-itemizing for 78 additional hit rating is going to hurt DPS, though. |
| 07:32.53 | Dagmar | Yes but I doubt it'll hurt it _that_ much |
| 07:33.01 | DWSR | Amarande: if you're not hit capped, that 78 rating hurts a ton. |
| 07:33.01 | Amarande | Dagmar: consider across an entire raid, though |
| 07:33.27 | Amarande | DWSR: yeah, hence the issue. Currently, in a competently gathered raid, I'm hit capped (except for some foo issues with soulshatter, maybe). |
| 07:33.29 | DWSR | Amarande: Not an entire raid. |
| 07:33.35 | Dagmar | You make it sound like it's no longer possible to hit the cap or something |
| 07:33.45 | Amarande | If shadowpriests go by the wayside, and boomkins don't appear as ubiquitously in their place, I will no longer be hit capped. |
| 07:33.46 | Dagmar | If you just GOTTA hit the cap, go right ahead and do it |
| 07:33.47 | DWSR | Amarande: You're really only affecting spellcaster DPS. |
| 07:33.48 | Dagmar | It doesn't always matter |
| 07:34.02 | DWSR | Amarande: Chugga chugga QQ. |
| 07:34.08 | DWSR | Welcome to my reality. |
| 07:34.17 | Amarande | DWSR: LOL ... I like that expression. :) |
| 07:34.31 | DWSR | with very few boomkins and spriests on the server to start with, it's a shock when I *do* have the 3% hit debuff. |
| 07:34.43 | Amarande | DWSR: sheesh, what server are you on? |
| 07:35.20 | Amarande | I pretty much assumed almost every raid had them, at least, whenever I read class advice it tends to sort of imply that you *should* have a shadowpriest or boomkin in your raid, or you're gimping your DPS by forcing them to gear extra hit rating at the expense of other stuff |
| 07:35.25 | DWSR | US-Nazjatar. |
| 07:35.25 | Amarande | your caster DPS, anyway |
| 07:35.31 | Wobin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36Xt-XeWnHM&feature=player_embedded |
| 07:35.57 | DWSR | Probably one of the lowest servers in progression, except for the fact that 1 Hordeside guild has a world ranked kill for Anub'Arak |
| 07:36.03 | Amarande | DWSR: I can see why. |
| 07:36.17 | DWSR | So it instantly bumps our placing up like 20 or 30 spots. |
| 07:36.56 | Amarande | anyway, what's wrong with shadowpriests, and why do you want to see them get nerfed into the ground for DPS? |
| 07:37.06 | DWSR | Amarande: Because I want fucking gear. |
| 07:37.17 | DWSR | And Shadowpriests have always been wannabe afflocks. |
| 07:37.21 | Amarande | (Besides, perhaps, the legitimate balancing concern that *because* they save 78 hit rating on each caster DPS, they probably significantly increase the raid DPS overall by being present.) |
| 07:37.28 | Dagmar | Wobin: Those dudes are going to make money |
| 07:38.10 | Amarande | DWSR: and really it's not so much a matter of nerfing |
| 07:38.36 | Amarande | it's more a matter that they start out good, and then they fail to keep up with the rest of the raid as the gear scales up |
| 07:38.57 | DWSR | Amarande: which means that the class has already been nerfed. |
| 07:38.59 | DWSR | A long long time ago. |
| 07:39.01 | DWSR | In a galaxy far far away |
| 07:39.04 | Amarande | and each tier in WotLK seems to have been itemized ever more badly for spriests. |
| 07:39.17 | DWSR | Amarande: It's been fucking awful for locks, as you well know. |
| 07:39.21 | DWSR | All of our tier has crit on it. |
| 07:39.28 | DWSR | Except the 7.5 |
| 07:39.46 | Dagmar | OH |
| 07:39.55 | Amarande | Exactly, I can't even go and get the T8 helm with badges without picking up some additional gear replacement in the process. |
| 07:40.00 | DWSR | In T7, I had like...400 haste rating |
| 07:40.06 | Amarande | Because I have to replace that 44 hit rating I'm losing from replacing a CRAPPY ILVL 187 HAT with it. |
| 07:40.08 | Dagmar | You're expecting that you'll get perfect optimal DPS from wearing the entire set? |
| 07:40.09 | DWSR | It's actually gone DOWN |
| 07:40.22 | Amarande | Dagmar: it used to be understood that tier gear was meant to be obtained and worn as a set |
| 07:40.30 | Amarande | it wasn't even till WotLK that most folks thought otherwise, that I know of |
| 07:40.32 | Dagmar | It hasn't been that way for _ages_ tho |
| 07:40.42 | Dagmar | They're constantly putting new things in that are BiS |
| 07:40.49 | Amarande | yeah, now instead of being useful, well, tiers |
| 07:41.02 | DWSR | Dagmar: BiS warlock gear has you wearing 3 pieces of T9 atm |
| 07:41.02 | Dagmar | Now they're _ranges_ of gear you can mix and match |
| 07:41.02 | Amarande | the gearing situation now basically IS a Tier ... if you get what I mean ... LOL |
| 07:41.15 | DWSR | because of the set bonus |
| 07:41.22 | Dagmar | Personally, I *like* the flexibility |
| 07:42.14 | Dagmar | I don't know that it's all that useful for mages because they're just DPS mainly, but priests have more than one role |
| 07:42.17 | Amarande | DWSR: you forget though. priests not being viable as shadow means forced-role for the class |
| 07:42.23 | Amarande | they either get to heal or they don't go |
| 07:42.33 | Dagmar | There's a difference between "viable" and "best dps" |
| 07:42.45 | Wobin | Dagmar, zomg, I recognise him now |
| 07:42.49 | Dagmar | ...and there's _definitely_ a difference between "inviable" and "viable" |
| 07:42.51 | Amarande | Dagmar: Yeah, the person mentioning these changes is from Ensidia, which probably pushes everything to its limits |
| 07:42.55 | Amarande | world top guilds usually do, I suppose :) |
| 07:43.00 | Dagmar | They absolutely do |
| 07:43.15 | DWSR | Amarande: No, I don't forget. |
| 07:43.19 | DWSR | I like priest heals. |
| 07:43.21 | DWSR | I hate their DPS. |
| 07:43.26 | DWSR | I would rather take a boomkin or a freakin' ele sham |
| 07:43.27 | Amarande | DWSR: there's an issue with that though :) |
| 07:43.32 | Wobin | Dagmar, he did a really good mario theme |
| 07:43.36 | Dagmar | People have been claiming BM wasn't "viable" for raiding for awhile now because the spec "scales" were tilted in favor of Survivalist spec for DPS |
| 07:43.49 | Dagmar | ...which is slightly narrow-minded, since BM has extra utiliyt |
| 07:44.02 | Amarande | in your world, of the six classes that have more than one potential role, you think only five should be able to take advantage of that choice? |
| 07:44.02 | Dagmar | ...but it's not _inviable_, it's just less than SV |
| 07:44.10 | Wobin | Dagmar, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6CXSTBaUsk |
| 07:44.34 | Dagmar | Wobin: Clearly he has skill |
| 07:44.34 | DWSR | Amarande: No, I don't. |
| 07:44.45 | Dagmar | Wobin: ...and talent for that matter, but the hip hop thing is _creativity_ |
| 07:44.46 | DWSR | Amarande: I think that they should all do less DPS than pure DPS classes. |
| 07:45.00 | Amarande | DWSR: but you do think only nine of the ten classes should participate in the DPS job. |
| 07:45.03 | DWSR | Amarande: and by more than the little bit that blizzard has claimed that they want to seperate them by. |
| 07:45.17 | Dagmar | Wobin: If nothing else there's studio gigs going wanting for people with his skillset |
| 07:45.18 | Wobin | not a bad voice either http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hrIPRcq5V4 |
| 07:45.21 | DWSR | Amarande: No. I think that the pure DPS classes should be making top DPS. |
| 07:45.29 | Amarande | DWSR: yeah, that I can agree on. |
| 07:45.31 | Dagmar | Oh I don't even want to know if he can sing |
| 07:45.34 | Amarande | Enh shaman, for instance, are way OP. |
| 07:45.38 | Dagmar | His musical talent makes me jealous enough |
| 07:45.41 | DWSR | Not really. |
| 07:45.42 | Amarande | They are imba the way that Edward Cullen is imba in the vampire world. |
| 07:45.49 | Wobin | .... |
| 07:45.51 | DWSR | Enh sham is just imba in PvP |
| 07:45.57 | Wobin | that brings terrible meaning to 'burst damage' |
| 07:46.13 | Amarande | DWSR: they have one of the highest direct DPS outputs, from what I've understood anyway (over 9000, literally) |
| 07:46.16 | Dagmar | Mages are generally the only people who can consistently beat my DPS |
| 07:46.26 | Dagmar | ...although locks that do it make me worry |
| 07:46.27 | Amarande | and on top of that, they also bring a lot of utility aid to the raid as a whole with totems |
| 07:46.28 | Wobin | considering what he did to Bella |
| 07:46.30 | Dagmar | Those crits, again |
| 07:46.46 | Amarande | compare, for instance, to a warlock |
| 07:46.49 | DWSR | Dagmar: Why? |
| 07:46.55 | Dagmar | I used to trade crit for raw power when I could get it to avoid ugly runs of crits |
| 07:46.58 | Amarande | I say warlocks especially, because in most encounters at this point in the game, our DPS is literally our life |
| 07:47.10 | Amarande | we have very little if any other contribution at all to the raid than our raw meter value |
| 07:47.12 | Dagmar | DWSR: Because most of the time, I'm riding the tank's ass |
| 07:47.25 | Wobin | bow-chika-waka-chika |
| 07:47.26 | Dagmar | ...but I can stop clicking. |
| 07:47.39 | DWSR | Dagmar: What class are you? DK? |
| 07:47.42 | Amarande | Rogues, hunters, and mages all seem to have more utility than warlocks now |
| 07:47.46 | Dagmar | Hunter, BM. |
| 07:47.52 | Amarande | although that could have a lot to do with lore theming |
| 07:47.55 | DWSR | oh, pft. |
| 07:48.07 | Dagmar | I stay above the healers and below the tanks on the meter. |
| 07:48.10 | Amarande | Warlocks rocked in BC because there were indeed so many demons and elementals in Outland, so we had good CC on top of our DPS. |
| 07:48.11 | Dagmar | Keeps things tidy. |
| 07:48.25 | Amarande | Now that theme demands the big enemies be Undead, we've kinda lost that luster. |
| 07:48.29 | Dagmar | I can _save_ a healer, but I'm going to be hard-pressed to do it for a 'lock |
| 07:48.50 | DWSR | Dagmar: I stay above the tanks and constantly ride them to better threat. |
| 07:48.58 | DWSR | Dagmar: If I'm not pushing, tanks get lazy, so I constantly ride them |
| 07:49.12 | Amarande | Dagmar: do you find being BM makes you cry in Ulduar, like it does the lady who does I Like Bubbles? |
| 07:49.16 | DWSR | Like 1 MT for one of my old guilds got a bunch of new kit in TotC in a week |
| 07:49.20 | Dagmar | Amarande: Nope |
| 07:49.28 | DWSR | Got a bunch of new kit. |
| 07:49.36 | DWSR | And he *was* holding threat for me find |
| 07:49.36 | Dagmar | I pay attention to battle conditions, I have a plan. |
| 07:49.39 | DWSR | fine* |
| 07:49.51 | DWSR | So we went into Uld that week and I pulled off him from every boss. |
| 07:49.56 | DWSR | And he was no longer an MT for the guild. |
| 07:50.11 | Dagmar | Did you guys _wipe_ from it tho? |
| 07:50.17 | Amarande | DWSR: wait a minute |
| 07:50.20 | DWSR | No, I was smart about it. |
| 07:50.22 | Amarande | you abused DPS and pulled aggro |
| 07:50.25 | Amarande | and the MT got punished? |
| 07:50.28 | Amarande | you bastard. |
| 07:50.30 | DWSR | Amarande: Yes. |
| 07:50.36 | Amarande | that's when the DPS are supposed to get larted, hard. |
| 07:50.36 | DWSR | As I said, the MT *was* tanking fine. |
| 07:50.38 | Dagmar | The guild leader was asking me about tanking Naxx this weekend, and I turned it down because I'm still not sure of myself on the DK |
| 07:50.52 | DWSR | After he got his gear upgrades, he stopped tanking fine. |
| 07:50.57 | DWSR | Fail tank, either lazy or dumb. |
| 07:51.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@213.39.209.90) |
| 07:51.03 | Amarande | hmm |
| 07:51.04 | Dagmar | That does sound a bit like laziness kicking in |
| 07:51.12 | Amarande | are there any known itemization issues with high tier tank gear? |
| 07:51.13 | Dagmar | Hopefully he'll get it sorted out |
| 07:51.22 | DWSR | Amarande: No. |
| 07:51.31 | DWSR | He's a fucking paladin tank. =\ |
| 07:51.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Pewpewarrows (n=Pewpewar@c-68-33-19-176.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 07:51.35 | DWSR | Like, hand of salvation anyone? |
| 07:51.37 | Amarande | No mana issues due to better gear, either? |
| 07:51.37 | Dagmar | Haah |
| 07:51.46 | Fisker | kill Gnarfoz |
| 07:51.47 | Fisker | and Jerub |
| 07:51.56 | DWSR | ~lart Fisker |
| 07:51.56 | purl | takes a big bite out of Fisker's jugular vein |
| 07:51.59 | Dagmar | I loved shaming those guys during the run up after Wrath opened |
| 07:52.08 | Amarande | Dagmar: that was just mean. |
| 07:52.10 | Dagmar | We were four manning places with my monkey tanking |
| 07:52.15 | Amarande | Pally tanks had a really rough time of it in the beginning if I remember |
| 07:52.19 | Dagmar | ...because he could do a better job than a paladin |
| 07:52.30 | DWSR | Amarande: They're scaling well with gear. |
| 07:52.31 | Amarande | in large part due to severe nerfs to pally mana management in order to rein in the ridiculous OP that was ret paladins when 3.0 first hit |
| 07:52.38 | DWSR | Dagmar: My felguard could do it better than a paladin |
| 07:52.41 | Amarande | so yeah, shaming them right after Wrath opened was just mean. :) |
| 07:52.43 | Dagmar | More hit points, more armor, and all those BM healing buffs made our healers just giddy |
| 07:52.50 | Dagmar | They would get massive heal crits on the monkey |
| 07:53.09 | DWSR | Are monkeys tank pets? Thought they were DPS pets. |
| 07:53.16 | Dagmar | They're tenacity pets. |
| 07:53.20 | Amarande | DWSR: pretty sure gorillas are tenacity |
| 07:53.34 | Dagmar | Before everything got thunderstomp tho, they had ludicrous DPS for AoE |
| 07:53.36 | DWSR | I don't really pay attention. |
| 07:53.37 | Amarande | though pets are even less different now than they were at 3.0 |
| 07:53.38 | DWSR | Sorry =\ |
| 07:53.55 | Dagmar | Amarande: Yeah but it's still a hell of a lot more different than BC |
| 07:53.59 | Amarande | DWSR: like I said, there's increasingly less difference between pets now. |
| 07:54.04 | Dagmar | I think they just managed to get the pets balanced out now |
| 07:54.17 | DWSR | I lulz so hard at BM hunters in arena. |
| 07:54.19 | Amarande | Pretty much the only difference is a choice of talent tree, and the unique ability of each type. |
| 07:54.25 | DWSR | Because they do like NO damage. |
| 07:54.26 | Amarande | Not even any stat differences anymore. |
| 07:54.32 | Dagmar | They've each got their own little unique thing that they can do, and it's not entirely window dressing |
| 07:54.37 | Amarande | Made me go WTF when I first saw that on wowhead, since I hadn't played my hunter in ages |
| 07:54.58 | Dagmar | There's stat difference |
| 07:55.02 | Dagmar | er es |
| 07:55.04 | DWSR | Sandvich so filling |
| 07:55.09 | Amarande | Dagmar: yeah, there's some reports that wolves still consistently do a (fairly trivial) amount more DPS than other pets |
| 07:55.17 | Dagmar | They do |
| 07:55.28 | Dagmar | It's not enough to make you ditch your favorites tho |
| 07:55.48 | Amarande | It kinda confused the exotic pet fans because a lot of them figured that an exotic pet should perform better than other pets |
| 07:55.49 | Dagmar | If you *absolutely* want that edge you take your wolf |
| 07:55.56 | Amarande | (otherwise, why do you invest that 51 points into the tree?) |
| 07:56.01 | DWSR | I'm really disappointed that they removed Avoidance from pets in 3.2.2 |
| 07:56.04 | Dagmar | If your'e not that worked up about it, you tote along Loque or something else |
| 07:56.05 | DWSR | or, well 3.3 |
| 07:56.27 | Amarande | I mean, if the exotics aren't that great performance wise, isn't some sort of 50/21/0 or 50/0/21 or whatnot probably better than taking the 51-pointer in BM? |
| 07:56.33 | Dagmar | Amarande: Like I said the other night, it's because of the utility function of the top tier skills for them |
| 07:57.02 | Dagmar | If exotics guaranteed top DPS, everyone would complain you had to have exotic to do top DPS |
| 07:57.15 | DWSR | Dagmar: No matter what you do, people will complain |
| 07:57.20 | Amarande | Dagmar: you mean the extra exotic family ability or the top pet talents? |
| 07:57.27 | Dagmar | Probably both |
| 07:57.30 | Amarande | because I thought every pet, not just exotics, got the four extra talent points when you had 51/x/x |
| 07:57.35 | Dagmar | Forum people are crazy |
| 07:58.08 | DWSR | Dagmar: Unless you simultaneously wiped out every human being on this planet, people would complain. |
| 07:58.14 | DWSR | s/would/will/ |
| 07:58.23 | Amarande | Myself, I decided to go MM on my hunter, with a likely dual spec of Surv, and leave the whole pet obsession thing to the BM pet addicts :) |
| 07:58.30 | Dagmar | Amarande: The way the talent trees are, it doesn't really matter. It's set up so basically you will at max level be filling in a very specific set of things, with only two endgame options |
| 07:58.36 | Amarande | I'll likely be using an owl for main pet, FWIW |
| 07:58.48 | Amarande | though right now I have a bear, since the owl skin I want isn't available till the mid 50s |
| 07:58.51 | Dagmar | For non-exotic pets, you get your choice of DPS-adding skills. With the exotic talent, you can take both. |
| 07:59.16 | Dagmar | On your exotic pets you still wind up at that same place in the tree, but you have to pick from the two endpoints, you can't really take both |
| 07:59.34 | Amarande | Ahh, the trick being you can't afford all the prereqs to get both top enders |
| 07:59.35 | Dagmar | ...because the top of it doesn't really have any choice there |
| 07:59.39 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 07:59.39 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 07:59.58 | Dagmar | Yeah, you can get both the top-enders for non-exotics, which is why *before* talents come into the picture, teh exotics look like they should do more DPS |
| 08:00.35 | Amarande | btw: is taming an owl in winterspring a pleasant and easy trip, or an exercise in OMGWTFGODDAMNITINTERRUPTEDAGAINGODWHYDIDIEVERWANTANOWL |
| 08:00.37 | Fisker | slaps Dagmar around a bit with a large trout |
| 08:00.51 | DWSR | ~lart Fisker |
| 08:00.51 | purl | teaches Fisker that M$ Access is a database. No, really, a database. A real live multi-user... well, ok, not multi-user, but a database. Yeah, that sounds right. |
| 08:01.01 | Amarande | I know some of the birds look like they might be the latter but I'm not sure about the winterspring owls. |
| 08:01.47 | Amarande | I suspect a number of pet types may even be unpopular specifically *because* of special abilities those beast types tend to come with that make the taming process exasperating. |
| 08:02.00 | Dagmar | Doubful. |
| 08:02.09 | Dagmar | Ice trap almost makes it trivial to tame most animals. |
| 08:02.16 | DWSR | indeed |
| 08:02.17 | Dagmar | You can tame 'em while they're frozen. |
| 08:02.29 | Dagmar | Drop trap, target distant animal, start taming. |
| 08:02.40 | Dagmar | Beastie comes at you, stands in trap for 20 seconds. |
| 08:02.42 | Dagmar | You're still taming it. |
| 08:02.57 | Amarande | ah, it's 20 seconds now. I thought I could have sworn remembering it used to be 10 unless you took surv talents |
| 08:03.05 | Amarande | but maybe I'm remembering wrong. |
| 08:03.29 | Dagmar | Maybe so, but either way there aren't many beasts your level that can kill you in 30 seconds if you have _decent_ gear |
| 08:03.39 | Amarande | Dagmar: for some pet types, it's not a matter of whether you die |
| 08:03.50 | Dagmar | It's stuns/interrupts |
| 08:03.51 | Amarande | it's a matter of (like MANY birds, in particular) them having stuns that will hard interrupt your tame |
| 08:03.55 | Amarande | exactly. |
| 08:04.06 | Amarande | I wonder if that's why owls aren't seen much. |
| 08:04.33 | DWSR | ORLY? |
| 08:04.34 | Amarande | in fact some of the owl skins I find even more attractive than the white winterspring owl |
| 08:04.35 | Dagmar | Right, so here's an example of what I meant about the top exotic skill having an extra effect... |
| 08:04.36 | Dagmar | http://www.wow-petopia.com/html/families/family_corehound.html |
| 08:04.36 | DWSR | ..sorry |
| 08:04.49 | Dagmar | Core hounds burn the target, AND slow casting |
| 08:04.50 | Amarande | but I'm trying to think of how one might actually be able to tame them without top end 80 gear |
| 08:05.05 | Amarande | especially the ones only found in BC instances, which means they doubtless hit like a Mack truck, stun, AND you can't have them tanked because you're taming. |
| 08:05.24 | Dagmar | Scorpids, same family mind you, also have a DoT, but no other effect. |
| 08:05.25 | Amarande | (and BC was a bitch about letting you crowd control stuff, too) |
| 08:05.43 | DWSR | Amarande: You're a lock? |
| 08:06.02 | Dagmar | Amarande: I haven't been killed attempting to tame something since I was like level 25. |
| 08:06.07 | DWSR | BC was when banish was even better than sheep |
| 08:06.14 | Dagmar | ...and I've had owls |
| 08:06.15 | Amarande | DWSR: Yup. Lock main. |
| 08:06.22 | Dagmar | I went on a little spree taming different new stuff with Wrath came out |
| 08:06.28 | Dagmar | I even ran around with an eagle for awhile |
| 08:06.42 | Dagmar | Not exciting |
| 08:07.08 | Dagmar | I've never really seen the stun thing as much more than a momentary annoyance. |
| 08:07.15 | Amarande | DWSR: However, I was speaking about CC in this particular case in the specific case of a hunter CCing a mob in order to tame it successfully (as you must do with most birds, because they have abilities that hard interrupt you) |
| 08:07.33 | DWSR | ah |
| 08:07.36 | Amarande | and wondering about the practicality of, particularly, taming BC instance owls before 80 and 213+ gear |
| 08:07.41 | Dagmar | I didn't bother with the ice trap thing until I hit 80, man |
| 08:08.25 | Dagmar | I'm a bit more stubbrn than most people, but I can't see people not getting a pet they really want just because they have to try 2-3 times |
| 08:08.27 | DWSR | lol |
| 08:08.38 | DWSR | That's why I like being a warlock |
| 08:08.43 | DWSR | I just get trained in how to summon them |
| 08:08.43 | Dagmar | The first core hound I tried almost DID eat me tho |
| 08:08.54 | Dagmar | I settled for a nice green one instead |
| 08:09.11 | DWSR | Green core hounds always bothered me. |
| 08:09.18 | DWSR | I was like "Why not...er...red? You know...for fire?" |
| 08:09.21 | Dagmar | You had to be MANLY about it to get one from MC |
| 08:09.22 | Amarande | actually, I guess there's the Skettis Kaliri if you want a purple owl |
| 08:09.36 | Dagmar | I have a lurid purple raptor now |
| 08:09.41 | Amarande | although those ones can be a bit evil to get where you want them to go, since you practically have to fly into them on a flying mount in order to aggro them |
| 08:09.48 | Amarande | and they're often out of range initially from ground |
| 08:09.49 | Dagmar | No real reason other than it just about hurts the eyes |
| 08:10.03 | DWSR | lol |
| 08:10.08 | Amarande | the only other purple owls are either non-tameable, or they're from Sethekk. |
| 08:10.13 | DWSR | Amarande: You want green fire for locks or no? |
| 08:10.27 | Amarande | DWSR: what about green fire? |
| 08:10.31 | Amarande | that's what chaos bolt does :) |
| 08:10.40 | DWSR | Yeah, but like... |
| 08:10.42 | DWSR | Green fire. |
| 08:10.47 | Amarande | And I'm not sure I would wanna try to tame something in Sethekk. |
| 08:10.52 | DWSR | Everything should be green fire for a lock, tbh. |
| 08:10.58 | Amarande | Shit in Sethekk hits like a truck, and taming means you can't have it tanked. :( |
| 08:11.21 | Amarande | There's a reason people hated going to Sethekk unless it was for the slabs key or for a druid's swift flight quest. :) |
| 08:11.41 | Dagmar | You might as well decide you want the dragonhawk from the entrance to Sunwell |
| 08:11.50 | Dagmar | YEAH, THAT IMPRESSES PEOPLE |
| 08:11.53 | Dagmar | hehe |
| 08:12.04 | Amarande | although really ... wasn't Auchindoun basically a HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT EFFING HATE IT fest for almost everyone? LOL |
| 08:12.06 | nevcairiel | eh? sethekk isnt that hard, i can solo it on heroic on my druid |
| 08:12.15 | DWSR | Amarande: Not really. |
| 08:12.32 | DWSR | Amarande: Ouchin douchin was really not that bad. |
| 08:12.44 | Amarande | people hated Auchenai Crypts because there were only two badges and it was kinda meh, and there were accidents like those red knockback balls |
| 08:12.47 | DWSR | And yes, that's what I call it. |
| 08:12.51 | DWSR | Ouchin douchin. |
| 08:12.54 | Dagmar | I went in with a guy who was bent on getting it, we distracted the rest of that first pull, killed it, and then watched the dragonhawk summarily eat him |
| 08:12.55 | Amarande | people hated Mana Tombs because it was almost impossible to properly tank the final boss in particular |
| 08:12.59 | Dagmar | hehehe |
| 08:13.02 | Amarande | people just plain HATED Shadow Labs |
| 08:13.20 | Dagmar | He didn't think he was going to need to pull out his stamina gear. |
| 08:13.21 | Amarande | I could write a book probably on the reasons people hated slabs, I was probably the only person who actually liked the instance |
| 08:13.21 | nevcairiel | people only hated shadow labs with crappy groups |
| 08:13.25 | nevcairiel | because it would take ages |
| 08:13.30 | nevcairiel | it was actually quite fun with a good group |
| 08:13.37 | Amarande | nevcairiel: actually, you had to have just the right group balance to have a reasonably fun time |
| 08:13.38 | Dagmar | I think I ran that 40-50 timers |
| 08:13.39 | Dagmar | er times |
| 08:13.41 | DWSR | ^^ |
| 08:13.48 | Amarande | if your group was too weak, Vorpil would make noms of you |
| 08:13.55 | Dagmar | The guild leaders wife (who is also a guild leader) wanted a recipe from there |
| 08:13.56 | Amarande | if your group was too strong you'd kill yourselves on Inciter |
| 08:14.12 | nevcairiel | Amarande: with good players, it didnt matter much. The group i ran with on a daily basis had always fun, no matter what =p |
| 08:14.31 | Amarande | Myself I hated Inciter, but that was since as an aff lock I was basically designated Inciter noms :( |
| 08:14.31 | Dagmar | I LOVE THAT FIGHT |
| 08:14.53 | Dagmar | There were so many ways you could just wing it through insanity |
| 08:15.03 | Amarande | Basically, the problem with being an aff lock as Inciter is that your survival every MC depends on having luck as to where the tank ends up relative to you after MC. |
| 08:15.11 | nevcairiel | so someone got killed in the inciter fight |
| 08:15.14 | Dagmar | I put the "Time for FUN!" sample on my PDA and would randomly play it over vent |
| 08:15.14 | nevcairiel | big deal, alot of fun :P |
| 08:15.26 | Amarande | This is because you are absolutely guaranteed to pick up aggro initially after MC ends, due to still-going dots. |
| 08:15.48 | Dagmar | Or you could, you know, take it a little easier in that fight |
| 08:15.51 | Amarande | Remember: mass MC = aggro drop. Aggro drop + dots = :( |
| 08:16.13 | Dagmar | We made our locks stay at max range |
| 08:16.21 | Amarande | Dagmar: that helps, to be sure :) |
| 08:16.40 | nevcairiel | range dps should always stay away, you never know what happens :P |
| 08:16.44 | Dagmar | Them along one wall, mages and healers the other, tank by the door ( if possible) and me generally center and max range. |
| 08:17.11 | Amarande | Dagmar: however, given that you spend about what, 1/4, 1/3 or so of the battle being mind controlled? it's hard to tell where you're going to be right after |
| 08:17.13 | Dagmar | With me in the middle, I could keep my grip on the healer if she had to run across |
| 08:17.22 | Amarande | the majority of our Inciter wipes back in the day had to do with bad situations right after MC ended |
| 08:17.26 | Dagmar | Amarande: Mainly watching someone thaw out |
| 08:17.43 | Dagmar | ..and then smacking Misdirect |
| 08:18.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Zhinjio (n=Geo@75.166.227.34) |
| 08:18.14 | Dagmar | Ice trapping myself the first time was just a lucky accident |
| 08:18.15 | Amarande | If you're squishy and end up right next to inciter after MC ends, and the tank and hunter ended up wandering off in MC, you're kinda noms. |
| 08:18.21 | *** part/#wowuidev Zhinjio (n=Geo@75.166.227.34) |
| 08:18.27 | Amarande | This happened to me way more often than I want to remember. :) |
| 08:18.48 | DWSR | Amarande: Or you just have bad gear. |
| 08:18.56 | Amarande | Yeah, I also didn't have very good gear |
| 08:19.04 | Dagmar | No I do remember locks were almost always the people you had to res if just one person died |
| 08:19.04 | Amarande | I never really had a significant chance to get geared up during BC |
| 08:19.16 | Dagmar | Ours loved battle resses |
| 08:19.29 | Amarande | I hit 70 at the point where DPS was expected to have kara gear to go to heroics (and good luck getting kara gear without heroics, lol) |
| 08:19.30 | Dagmar | We'd just laugh at her |
| 08:19.52 | Amarande | I got a few groups, but more often I got together two other DPS to try to start a group and never found a willing tank and healer |
| 08:19.54 | Wobin | Dagmar, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHDiurJY3lg |
| 08:20.01 | Dagmar | Amarande: Some of the damn things almost DID require it |
| 08:20.04 | Amarande | so yeah, I never really got geared at all well at 70 |
| 08:20.24 | Dagmar | There was one in Hellfire Peninsula I remember as being particularly nasty |
| 08:20.33 | Amarande | Shattered Halls? |
| 08:20.36 | Amarande | That one was just pain even on normal |
| 08:20.43 | Wobin | so true |
| 08:20.46 | Dagmar | I think so |
| 08:20.52 | Wobin | BF is pretty terrbile |
| 08:20.55 | Dagmar | I just remember groups of orcs who were mean as hell |
| 08:20.57 | Wobin | at least certain rooms |
| 08:21.09 | Wobin | Blood Furnace, maybe |
| 08:21.16 | Dagmar | We didn't dare go into a fight without marks or it was finito |
| 08:21.42 | Amarande | My build didn't jell well with such heroics either |
| 08:21.51 | Dagmar | It made us pretty pavlovian about the skull |
| 08:22.06 | Amarande | I used the then very powerful dark pact affliction build, which was pretty effective most of the time soloing and in the couple kara runs I got to go to |
| 08:22.16 | Amarande | however, dark pact affliction pretty much depended on imp |
| 08:22.16 | Dagmar | You can still pop a skull on say, the mage at the end of the fight and catch a couple of people trying to nuke her |
| 08:22.30 | Amarande | whereas places like Shattered Halls basically meant I was ORDERED to bring out succy |
| 08:22.37 | Dagmar | This is why they don't let me mark much. ;) |
| 08:22.42 | Amarande | and had to keep most of her mana for seductions |
| 08:23.36 | Amarande | of course dark pact affliction's kinda a thing of the past now |
| 08:23.47 | nevcairiel | I did the heroic shattered halls time achievemnt before any nerf |
| 08:23.49 | nevcairiel | that was fun |
| 08:23.57 | Dagmar | My GF was not amused with me that night |
| 08:24.01 | Amarande | those few lost souls who still insist on speccing aff have to use lifetap now, if nothing else because GoLT is vital to affliction DPS |
| 08:24.01 | nevcairiel | er, time quest, whatever, not achievement .P |
| 08:24.03 | DWSR | Amarande: Not really. |
| 08:24.08 | DWSR | Amarande: It's just not the top DPS spec. |
| 08:24.28 | DWSR | Besides, with replenishment and GoLT, why do you ever run out of mana? |
| 08:24.42 | Amarande | Yeah, that's true. We didn't have replenishment in days of yore. |
| 08:24.49 | Amarande | That I can remember anyway |
| 08:25.19 | Amarande | I can't remember if shadowpriests had it, but any sane priest then specced healing because they didn't want to spend HOURS looking for a healer with the additional handicap of being "the priest asking for heals" |
| 08:25.49 | nevcairiel | shadow priests had the mana regen before anyone else |
| 08:26.02 | Amarande | yeah, it must have just been that I hardly ever saw shadowies in BC instance runs |
| 08:26.04 | nevcairiel | it just wasnt called replenishment back then |
| 08:26.15 | Dagmar | Heh |
| 08:26.24 | Dagmar | The guild leader's wife played spriest |
| 08:26.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Caleb| (n=caleb@dsl4E5C02AF.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 08:26.34 | Amarande | even now, spriests are mainly a soloing and raid thing more than a 5man, right? |
| 08:26.45 | Dagmar | Nah they work fine |
| 08:26.48 | Dagmar | The guild leader's main is a paladin |
| 08:27.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (n=Kazie@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 08:27.05 | Dagmar | It always freaked me out that the guy in plate was healing, and the person I'd expect to be healing was doign DPS |
| 08:27.31 | Dagmar | It does make it a bit harder to wipe tho |
| 08:27.39 | DWSR | OMg. |
| 08:27.41 | DWSR | wtf? |
| 08:27.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Pewpewarrows (n=Pewpewar@c-68-33-19-176.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 08:27.49 | DWSR | My ping just dropped from 3s to like 93ms. |
| 08:27.50 | DWSR | AWESOME. |
| 08:28.00 | nevcairiel | porn download finished? |
| 08:28.05 | DWSR | Sometihng |
| 08:28.17 | Amarande | Speaking of the earlier spriest discussion, btw |
| 08:28.29 | Amarande | It seems that that's not the only time things get affected in a possibly negative way by scaling |
| 08:28.52 | Amarande | There's talk that gear scaling is getting to other things as well, like Arms/Fury warrior balance |
| 08:29.23 | Amarande | this may be important in 3.3, in particular, because guilds will want to give the orange 2 hander to the person who can do the absolute best with it |
| 08:29.35 | Amarande | (or, in reality, to the GM or his gf, in many raiding guilds.) |
| 08:29.47 | Dagmar | So long as it's not a mace. |
| 08:29.49 | Dagmar | *g* |
| 08:30.30 | Amarande | (Like ye olde legendary bug mount, I'm sure that GMs always got it no matter how important the other people may have been to the raid by comparison rolewise ...) |
| 08:30.44 | Dagmar | Not in my guild |
| 08:30.56 | nevcairiel | only one guy in the realm got the funny mount, anyway |
| 08:31.04 | Dagmar | We've given the phoenix mount to someone who pugged the fifth spot just because he won the roll |
| 08:31.15 | Amarande | not that the bug mount really matters anymore, since aside from people who got it due to a 3.0.2 bug, there's like ... one person left I think who actually still plays among the black battle tank owners |
| 08:31.16 | DWSR | You guys suck. |
| 08:31.36 | Amarande | almost all the people who got the Black Qiraji Battle Tank have either retired from the game or have abandoned that toon |
| 08:31.37 | nevcairiel | we roll'ed for drop mounts |
| 08:31.40 | nevcairiel | nothing special about them |
| 08:32.50 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 08:32.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 08:33.19 | DWSR | dude, the new totem models look fucking awesome. |
| 08:34.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh_ (n=Srosh@c209090.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 08:35.04 | nevcairiel | legendarys .. for the original staff in old-naxx we just auctioned the first shard off, and the winner got all the others. glaives we gave to our best rogue, no discussion there =p .. and mace in ulduar we auctioned off again |
| 08:36.35 | Fisker | ~seen Gnarfoz |
| 08:36.37 | purl | gnarfoz is currently on #debian (2d 19h 19m 16s) #wowhead (2d 19h 19m 16s) #norganna (2d 19h 19m 16s) #wowuidev (2d 19h 19m 16s) #wowace (2d 19h 19m 16s) #curseforge (2d 19h 19m 16s) #wowwiki (2d 19h 19m 16s). Has said a total of 56 messages. Is idling for 1d 2h 7m 30s, last said: 'http://db.mmo-champion.com/q/241/test-hey-mister-wilson/ < ;D'. |
| 08:36.41 | Fisker | ~seen Jerub |
| 08:36.42 | purl | jerub is currently on #wowuidev (5d 5h 55m 2s). Has said a total of 595 messages. Is idling for 2h 22m 6s, last said: 'hm, seems i need to spend some money on enchants.'. |
| 08:37.14 | DWSR | ~lart Fisker |
| 08:37.14 | purl | accelerates a free AOL cd to 50,000 rpm and lets Fisker feel it |
| 08:37.22 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 08:37.22 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 08:37.52 | olafski | < Amarande> almost all the people who got the Black Qiraji Battle Tank have either retired from the game or have abandoned that toon <-- the guy who got it on darksorrow still has it.. although he moved to Magtheridon and then to Tarren Mill (all EU :)) |
| 08:37.54 | Xinhuan | [10/10 16:31:26] <Amarande> almost all the people who got the Black Qiraji Battle Tank have either retired from the game or have abandoned that toon |
| 08:37.57 | Xinhuan | i still play Amarande :) |
| 08:38.49 | Xinhuan | inspiration poster: http://kinkou.net/xinftp/XinhuanInsanity.jpg |
| 08:39.27 | msoul | Hmmm |
| 08:39.45 | msoul | Is it by killing vyragosa you get the statchel and the time lost proto drake as a reward? |
| 08:39.49 | Fisker | slaps DWSR around a bit with a large trout |
| 08:39.57 | olafski | you kill the time lost proto drake iirc |
| 08:40.11 | msoul | Hmmm |
| 08:40.22 | olafski | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44168 |
| 08:40.25 | msoul | I killed vyragosa didn't see the time lost |
| 08:40.30 | msoul | i thought it is in the statchel |
| 08:40.39 | DWSR | Xinhuan: What server are you on? |
| 08:40.45 | Xinhuan | blackrock |
| 08:40.52 | Xinhuan | US (bg9) |
| 08:41.11 | DWSR | ah |
| 08:41.21 | DWSR | There's a No MAAM guild on US-Nazajtar. |
| 08:41.26 | DWSR | Nazjatar* |
| 08:41.26 | Xinhuan | i'm one of the 4 who completed it 4 years ago |
| 08:41.27 | nevcairiel | you still have time to play? :P |
| 08:41.32 | Xinhuan | yeah but we're the original ;p |
| 08:41.45 | Xinhuan | yeah nevcairiel |
| 08:41.54 | Xinhuan | i stopped my job to take a game programming course |
| 08:41.56 | Xinhuan | with ubisoft |
| 08:42.50 | Xinhuan | time to go out for dinner, cya |
| 08:42.51 | Amarande | Xinhuan: you're one of maybe a tiny handful, from what I've heard :) |
| 08:42.55 | Amarande | later! |
| 08:43.02 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (n=krka@c-177ae155.159-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 08:43.11 | Xinhuan | actually, i know quite a number of legendary mount holders ;p |
| 08:43.18 | olafski | btw in my guild it was also not the guild master who got the black tank :) |
| 08:43.21 | Amarande | nev, was it ever fully accepted whether warglaives were better for rogues or for fury warriors? |
| 08:43.45 | Amarande | (myself, I'd have probably leaned towards "the fury warrior DPS who OTs sometimes", since they *are* one handers) |
| 08:44.44 | Amarande | not that the assignment thing is any better these days for uber dual wield oriented weapons |
| 08:45.05 | Amarande | since so many of them are itemized such that rogues, fury warriors, enh shamans -and- hunters have a legitimate claim |
| 08:51.07 | Amarande | btw |
| 08:51.11 | Amarande | whatever happened to the Snowmaster 9000? |
| 08:51.19 | Amarande | last couple Christmas seasons in particular it was all the rage on the AH |
| 08:51.27 | Amarande | to the point that engineers would hoard the schematic to try to keep the competition down |
| 08:51.31 | Dagmar | Snowballs got nerfed. |
| 08:51.44 | Amarande | now ... there's no competition at all on AH and I can't even sell the damn things. I've had to go down to a 15g buyout this try. |
| 08:51.55 | Amarande | I started at 50. |
| 08:54.28 | Amarande | Dagmar: they were nerfed before last Christmas though weren't they? |
| 08:54.35 | Amarande | there just doesn't seem any interest in them even as a 'fun' item. |
| 08:55.05 | Dagmar | Yeah, they were hilarious in AV before that |
| 08:58.37 | Dagmar | perhaps since our battlegroup is not so high-strung, we enjoyed them more than most |
| 08:58.48 | Dagmar | AV _frequently_ broke down into just plain snowball fights |
| 08:59.21 | Dagmar | Sure, you'd TRY to wade in there and do some DPS, and someone would smack you in the gob with a snowball and send you flying |
| 09:00.33 | smcn | i pulled off some ninja shit on my rogue in av last december |
| 09:00.45 | smcn | defending towers |
| 09:01.55 | Arrowmaster | it was only the special AV only snowballs that knocked you around in AV |
| 09:02.02 | Arrowmaster | not the normal ones |
| 09:02.47 | Amarande | FIRE RESISTANCE?! |
| 09:02.50 | Amarande | spits on the RNG. |
| 09:03.07 | Amarande | I spend time and money getting gems and such because I figure hey I can make some nice rings for my hunter when he hits the right level. |
| 09:03.28 | Amarande | So I go and make an Aquamarine Signet, since the 20 AP is nice for a hunter, and just about anything could be useful for a hunter? Right? |
| 09:03.29 | Amarande | RIGHT? |
| 09:03.38 | Amarande | And I roll ... Fire Resistance. Dammit ... :( |
| 09:03.54 | Amarande | At least there's still the AP ... meh *sigh* damn you RNG. |
| 09:04.12 | olafski | save it for molten core ;) |
| 09:07.03 | Amarande | olafski: I miss the olden days |
| 09:07.12 | Amarande | give us the olden days, add in JC and inscription, and I'll be happy :) |
| 09:07.15 | nevcairiel | you create one ring, and you expect to get something useful? :P |
| 09:07.30 | nevcairiel | it doesnt work like that ;) |
| 09:07.33 | Amarande | nev: I figured that most of the possible rolls would at least be *somewhat* useful, for a 35 leveling hunter anyway :) |
| 09:08.13 | Amarande | I mean, of http://www.wowhead.com/?item=20964 |
| 09:08.13 | Amarande | what of those could be useless? |
| 09:08.14 | Amarande | except, maybe, yeah, fire resistance |
| 09:08.14 | Amarande | LOL |
| 09:08.28 | Amarande | maybe I should have thought of the rules regarding RNGs :P |
| 09:09.14 | olafski | whoo waterlogged recipe twice in a row |
| 09:09.51 | Amarande | olafski: I need shattered necklaces and titanium powder myself :) |
| 09:09.56 | Amarande | waterlogged recipes will do me very little good now |
| 09:10.00 | olafski | I should start doing this fishing daily on all my chars so I'll have the hat quicker |
| 09:10.09 | Amarande | I can buy ... northern spices and a chef hat, that's about all I can buy that's any good with dalaran cooking awards now :) |
| 09:10.14 | olafski | same |
| 09:10.24 | olafski | I have all the recipes in the game except the BWL one |
| 09:10.28 | Amarande | whereas I need like 50 metric kajillion JC tokens |
| 09:10.34 | Amarande | by the time I get everything it will be cata |
| 09:10.36 | olafski | I'm too lazy to do the JC daily |
| 09:10.48 | Amarande | though oh well, I tend to be a recipe completist anyway |
| 09:11.13 | Amarande | I'll probably go for all the JC stuff eventually anyway except for anything that's actually unavailable now, and the 1 or 2 recipes you need aldor rep for |
| 09:11.22 | Amarande | (because I am not ditching exalted scryers for 2 JC recipes just for that LOL) |
| 09:11.43 | Grum | getting all the blue oldskool recipies is quite expensive |
| 09:11.43 | Amarande | especially since I need my exalted scryers till I get exalted sons of hodir |
| 09:11.54 | Amarande | Grum: aren't most BOP drops, too? |
| 09:12.05 | Grum | no but they are 'rare world drops' |
| 09:12.16 | Grum | and people still put em up for ~250g each orso |
| 09:12.46 | olafski | so buy your way to exalted hodir :P |
| 09:13.03 | Grum | that is cheaper than getting all blue gems from tbc =) |
| 09:13.07 | olafski | there are a few BoP drops, a lot of ones bought with tokens and some BoE drops |
| 09:13.15 | olafski | (in northrend) |
| 09:13.36 | Grum | you get BoP from instances (heroics) |
| 09:13.39 | olafski | no clue about TBC stuff, I skipped that expansion |
| 09:13.41 | Grum | some (~6) from rep |
| 09:13.56 | Grum | and ~15 BoE orso |
| 09:14.13 | olafski | which are a total waste of tokens ;p |
| 09:14.14 | Amarande | yeah I'm trying to figure out exactly how I'm goign to get my exalteds with BC factions |
| 09:14.24 | Grum | farm heroics |
| 09:14.33 | Amarande | sadly, as a warlock I'm too squishy to do most of the 70 instances let alone heroics on my own like some classes (*cough* druids) can |
| 09:14.52 | olafski | get a group |
| 09:15.05 | olafski | on my server I see daily requests in trade chat to go farm old heroics for rep |
| 09:15.54 | Amarande | I barely see them at all |
| 09:16.05 | Amarande | I should get a chain heroics group together though for outland dungeon hero |
| 09:16.20 | Dagmar | You need to find a more casual guild |
| 09:16.21 | Amarande | the main thing is making sure everyone has all five keys |
| 09:17.30 | Amarande | now I'm quite glad it was dropped to honored a while back :) |
| 09:17.43 | Amarande | imagine how hard it would be to get groups for outland dungeon hero if you still needed revered? lol |
| 09:17.54 | Fisker | ~seen Adys |
| 09:17.55 | purl | adys is currently on #wowprogramming (1d 4h 29m 34s) #wowuidev (1d 4h 29m 34s) #wowace (1d 4h 29m 34s) #wowwiki (1d 4h 29m 34s). Has said a total of 247 messages. Is idling for 3h 9m 13s, last said: 'Wobin: dont do that'. |
| 09:18.22 | Fisker | you there Adys ? |
| 09:29.05 | Fisker | slaps Shirik|zZz around a bit with a large trout |
| 09:32.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphon (n=gryphon@c-76-104-164-148.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 09:38.04 | Adys | Fisker: not for long |
| 09:38.32 | Amarande | Quest Accepted: What Tomorrow Brings. |
| 09:38.54 | Amarande | You should be warned when accepting this that this is not just what tomorrow brings, it's what the day after that brings, and the day after that, and quite possibly quite a long time after that, really. :) |
| 09:39.07 | Amarande | Actually, that's probably an interesting question. |
| 09:39.16 | Fisker | Adys any place you can find some google wave groups? :P |
| 09:39.19 | Fisker | i'm so ronery :( |
| 09:39.29 | Amarande | What is the absolute shortest time frame in which the AQ40 chain can be completed, assuming no AQ40 trash respawn abuse? |
| 09:39.49 | Adys | Fisker: i only know of 4-5 ppl who even use google wave so far |
| 09:39.56 | Adys | probably on the next couple of waves of invites |
| 09:39.56 | Amarande | And assuming you can get a group for every necessary raid without loss of significant time |
| 09:39.59 | Adys | its going to get active |
| 09:40.10 | Adys | Amarande: a day? |
| 09:40.16 | Adys | its not hard |
| 09:40.17 | Amarande | Adys: more than that |
| 09:40.20 | Adys | no. |
| 09:40.35 | Adys | but Im unsure whether you can still complete draconic for dummies |
| 09:40.36 | Amarande | gotta be at least a few weeks, since I think you have to go to BWL at least 2 or 3 times and I don't think you can use the same instance for all the trips |
| 09:40.37 | Fisker | I know someone who soloed it(except the raid parts) in like a month |
| 09:40.42 | Adys | huh? |
| 09:40.52 | Adys | yeah I soloed most of it |
| 09:40.56 | Amarande | Adys: apparently it's confirmed that draconic for dummies still drops from ony |
| 09:41.00 | Adys | neat |
| 09:41.06 | Amarande | you have to wait till all the loot has been divvied out though before you can loot it |
| 09:41.18 | Fisker | i would've thought they would've intentionally broken the questline Amarande |
| 09:41.22 | Adys | i heard t2 helms drop off nefarian now? |
| 09:41.44 | Amarande | Fisker: the only part they actually took out deliberately entirely was bang a gong |
| 09:41.56 | Amarande | which has been unavailable on this server a long time now anyway |
| 09:41.57 | Adys | they didnt take it out its just not doable more than once |
| 09:42.01 | Adys | and uhm |
| 09:42.08 | Adys | what do you mean doing bwl more than once? |
| 09:42.20 | Adys | you just need the two draconic chapters and the scepter shard |
| 09:42.21 | Amarande | Adys: I heard it was removed entirely due to abuses resulting from a bug on some servers in 3.0.2 |
| 09:42.21 | Fisker | need to do it twice if you plan it i guess |
| 09:42.38 | Adys | it wasnt, it was a bug that caused the AQ chains to respawn |
| 09:42.39 | Amarande | Adys: First you have to go to BWL before you can do most of the chain at all, for Lashlayer's head |
| 09:42.50 | Adys | uh yeha i was assuming you already had that |
| 09:43.23 | Amarande | you also need to do it for the red scepter shard and for VII of Draconic for Dummies |
| 09:43.37 | Adys | assuming you already got the quest |
| 09:43.43 | Adys | you just need one bwl run |
| 09:43.45 | Adys | that takes 40 min |
| 09:43.52 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 09:44.00 | Adys | duskwood demon, 15 min |
| 09:44.05 | Amarande | Adys: assuming you have a group patient enough to let you go do all the other stuff before continuing on to Vael, anyway :) |
| 09:44.24 | Fisker | you mean start him? |
| 09:44.27 | Fisker | ... |
| 09:44.36 | Adys | maws.. a few mins, soloable now even |
| 09:44.38 | Amarande | assuming a realistic group, and assuming you're beginning from the very start, you're going to need 2-3 trips. |
| 09:44.46 | Adys | onyxia, meh |
| 09:44.53 | Adys | the only annoying thing is gonna be farming the dragons |
| 09:44.54 | Codayus | The HARD part is the damn eternium. :-/ |
| 09:44.54 | Adys | but same thing |
| 09:44.55 | Amarande | one for lashlayer's head, one trip you can get VII dummies and the 5-hour timed run |
| 09:44.58 | Adys | that takes 2 hours top |
| 09:45.00 | Amarande | Codayus: Elementium. |
| 09:45.04 | Amarande | IF ONLY it was eternium. :) |
| 09:45.04 | Codayus | I meant that. |
| 09:45.08 | Codayus | Indeed. |
| 09:45.19 | Adys | eternium goes for 200g each in AH here |
| 09:45.23 | Adys | .. elementium |
| 09:45.23 | Amarande | So 2 trips assuming you manage to learn smelt elementium on one of those 2. |
| 09:45.35 | Amarande | 3 if you get unlucky and there's other miners who out roll you for the elementium smelting book. |
| 09:46.04 | Adys | not like you cant get it smelted for you.. |
| 09:46.05 | Amarande | 1 if your group loves you like they're your wives and will let the BWL raid go unfinished after Lashlayer till you're ready for 5-hour timed run. |
| 09:46.20 | Amarande | (In other words, if it's a PUG, forget it. LOL) |
| 09:46.29 | Adys | dude wtf |
| 09:46.40 | Adys | you know you dont have to fill all 40 spots right |
| 09:46.44 | Fisker | you actually have to do it over 9000 times |
| 09:46.48 | Codayus | If your starting from scratch, you need two BWL clears, neutral Brood rep (either two AQ40 clear, or a lot of hours of farming, or some mix), and a LOT of running around the world killing random things. |
| 09:46.50 | Adys | vael is 3mannable |
| 09:46.53 | Amarande | Adys: that I'm aware of |
| 09:46.57 | Adys | raz 2mannable, bloodlord soloable |
| 09:47.05 | Fisker | because all 8999 first times will have some jerk ninja all the ore and disband the group before you reach nefarian |
| 09:47.14 | Codayus | You could DO it ina about a week, if you were really bored and kind of lucky. |
| 09:47.21 | Fisker | taking non-retard situations out of the equation leaves 2 runs |
| 09:47.29 | Fisker | er |
| 09:47.32 | Adys | you can do it in a single day assuming you already got the blords questy |
| 09:47.33 | Adys | -y |
| 09:47.36 | Fisker | s/non-retard/retard/ |
| 09:48.14 | Amarande | The main assumption I was making is that if you PUG, you will end up needing to do BWL once for each quest or set of quests that cannot be held concurrently, because PUGs normally do the entire instance in one go. |
| 09:48.59 | Fisker | Get head, that's one run |
| 09:49.10 | Fisker | Start vael, pickup books, kill nef |
| 09:49.12 | Fisker | that's 2 runs |
| 09:49.15 | Fisker | you're done |
| 09:49.18 | Codayus | Amarande: Um, there's nothing concurrent. You can't do it in FEWER than two trips (if you don't have the head). You can't possibly need MORE than two trips unless someone else is doing the shard quest. |
| 09:49.20 | Amarande | Adys: Lashlayer soloable by a destro lock in less than full 226? |
| 09:49.31 | Adys | probably |
| 09:49.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110 (i=Matrix11@ip-95-222-224-247.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 09:50.08 | Amarande | Remember, I couldn't even solo Drakkisath, although that probably has to do mainly with those two damned adds with MS |
| 09:50.38 | Codayus | (And keep in mind that Broodlord is AFTER Razorgore and Vael, who can't be skipped, can't be soloed, and in Vael's case, start the red shard timed run. Soloing Broodlord is fairly pointless.) |
| 09:50.40 | Amarande | Let's just put it this way. Unless it's coming from an Arms warrior in my party, I HATE MS. |
| 09:51.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@dslb-084-057-247-030.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:51.41 | Adys | http://www.someoneoncetoldme.com/gallery/02062008 |
| 09:52.06 | Amarande | aright, two weeks for AQ chain then assuming I don't run into grouping issues. woot. :) |
| 09:52.54 | Amarande | (and by "weeks" I mean "raid lockout periods", I know full well you could do the head Monday night and then the timed run Tuesday. :P) |
| 09:52.56 | Amarande | well, maybe. |
| 09:53.05 | Amarande | depending on how fast you can burn through 42,000 Nozdormu rep |
| 09:53.24 | Adys | how about that: |
| 09:53.26 | Adys | VERY fast |
| 09:53.26 | Amarande | how much does a full trip through AQ40 give? |
| 09:53.41 | Adys | 15k or somethin |
| 09:53.51 | Codayus | One AQ40 clear and some halfhearted rep farming is all you need. Two clears is more than enough, and gets you on your way to exalted (which, if your an achievement whore, you'll want anyhow). |
| 09:53.53 | Amarande | I remember getting something pathetic last time, but that was because that was back when rep from gray kills was nerfed |
| 10:05.43 | Fisker | yay |
| 10:05.48 | Fisker | i love fud traffic campaigns |
| 10:09.49 | Amarande | Fisker: you mean the ones that are so out there as to say "every time you forget to buckle, God kills a kitten?" |
| 10:13.01 | *** part/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 10:14.15 | Adys | since when arent you able to skin critters :( |
| 10:14.27 | Fisker | naw Amarande |
| 10:14.31 | Fisker | this one is worse |
| 10:14.41 | Amarande | You receive loot: [Encrypted Twilight Text] |
| 10:14.45 | Fisker | The seatbelt campaigns are understandable :P |
| 10:14.55 | Amarande | You know, there's probably people who wish ALL twilight related text was similarly unreadable. :D |
| 10:15.34 | Fisker | But this one's premise is that some guy can't hold his car steady and goes into the little "ditch" made by the height difference of the road vs. the ground |
| 10:15.45 | Fisker | He then panics, loses control and ends up in a tree |
| 10:16.27 | Wobin | eh |
| 10:16.38 | Fisker | The point of the campaign is that if he had run ~50mph instead of like ~60mph then he would've been able to avoid the crash |
| 10:16.39 | Wobin | when it comes to vehicular safety, I'd prefer massive scare campaigns |
| 10:17.05 | Fisker | Wobin the point is that it wasn't the speed |
| 10:17.06 | Wobin | hm, what's 60mph in km/h? |
| 10:17.10 | Fisker | it was because he was a terrible driver |
| 10:17.15 | Adys | 90km/h or so |
| 10:17.19 | Fisker | ^^ |
| 10:17.31 | Adys | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=60+mph+in+km/h&aq=f&oq=&aqi= |
| 10:17.31 | Wobin | well, yes, but if the campaign slows down terrible drivers, it's better for everyone else =) |
| 10:17.38 | Fisker | it was 80km/h (which is the legal limit) vs. 90km/h |
| 10:17.44 | Fisker | true Wobin :P |
| 10:17.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110| (i=Matrix11@ip-95-222-224-247.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 10:18.50 | Amarande | Wobin: not necessarily :P |
| 10:18.55 | Wobin | One thing the Australian government has going for it, is that it doesn't shy away from showing horrifically graphic PSAs |
| 10:18.57 | Amarande | some drivers are annoying as sin -because- they drive too slow |
| 10:19.16 | Wobin | Amarande, yes, but at least they're slow enough that they're not hitting you at 60mph |
| 10:19.21 | Fisker | they've done the same here |
| 10:19.25 | Adys | aussies use the metric system? :O |
| 10:19.25 | Fisker | seemingly to no effect |
| 10:19.41 | Wobin | Adys, afaik, only the Americans use the imperial =P |
| 10:19.43 | Amarande | some people get pissed off enough about that that they say people who are on their own time shouldn't be allowed to drive some times of the day and should save the road for people with work schedules :P heh |
| 10:19.47 | Fisker | only US and some other obscure country uses imperial |
| 10:19.49 | Adys | Wobin: and brits |
| 10:19.56 | Wobin | they're converting |
| 10:19.57 | Wobin | slowly =P |
| 10:20.10 | Adys | yeah at like 3mp/h |
| 10:20.12 | Amarande | Adys: yeah, the brits are converting |
| 10:20.16 | Amarande | the US on the other hand as a nation |
| 10:20.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras__ (n=Sargeras@75.80.16.10) |
| 10:20.51 | Amarande | yeah, I know, I'm about to reference WoW. but yeah, it's easier to get some people to stop standing in fire (you know the ones) than it is to get Americans to go metric :( |
| 10:21.10 | Wobin | maybe they think metric is flame wreath |
| 10:21.12 | Amarande | I hate this because I *like* metric. |
| 10:21.39 | Wobin | metric is nice and logical |
| 10:22.22 | Arrowmaster | i dont like metric for distances and speed |
| 10:22.37 | zenzelezz | I respect your opinion, but how come? |
| 10:22.43 | Amarande | I have my weather channel and my windows vista weather thing set to Celsius. :) |
| 10:22.52 | Arrowmaster | it would seem like im going so much more over the speed limit in metric than in imperial |
| 10:22.58 | Adys | you sound pro Amarande |
| 10:23.13 | Amarande | not really Adys. I admitted to using Vista. :D |
| 10:23.19 | zenzelezz | actually, you are more over the limit per mp/h than per km/h |
| 10:23.45 | Arrowmaster | 200kph in a 105kph just sounds bad |
| 10:24.20 | Arrowmaster | although i guess 125mph in a 65mph is also bad |
| 10:24.25 | Amarande | you mean people drive the speed limit when there isn't a cop car right behind them? :) |
| 10:24.27 | Adys | if you get your car to 200 km/h theres a problem |
| 10:24.37 | Arrowmaster | Adys: done it |
| 10:24.58 | Amarande | hell, here in america, if you actually enforced the speeding laws you might be able to abolish all taxes :) |
| 10:25.02 | Adys | in france you got radars everywhere now |
| 10:25.12 | Adys | no Amarande |
| 10:25.14 | Adys | dont count on it |
| 10:25.42 | Arrowmaster | no enforcing speeding laws would mean nobody would have a drivers license anymore |
| 10:25.52 | Amarande | Adys: yeah, some mayors think about that and it leads to pissed off electorates :) |
| 10:25.55 | Amarande | like a few years ago in NYC |
| 10:26.10 | Amarande | Bloomberg apparently thought he could avoid tax hikes and save the city budget by making NYPD cops incredibly anal |
| 10:26.22 | Amarande | it resulted in an expose in the one newspaper people seem to pay attention to around here, the New York Post |
| 10:26.38 | Amarande | and thus, Bloomberg was forced to break down and do what every sane and happy mayor does, namely raise taxes. :) |
| 10:26.52 | Amarande | (of course, that got bitched about in the Post too, but ... heh) |
| 10:27.35 | Adys | french president is a twat |
| 10:27.37 | Adys | but that aside |
| 10:27.41 | Amarande | the abuses were legendary. hell, if you stopped to help someone who was choking, you got a parking ticket and had to go fight it in court :P |
| 10:27.50 | Arrowmaster | a copyright infringing twat |
| 10:27.52 | Adys | he decided to put radars absolutely everywhere |
| 10:28.08 | Adys | what actually happened? |
| 10:28.10 | Fisker | grr |
| 10:28.14 | Amarande | Adys: ah. the US obsession is pretty much to have red-cams instead |
| 10:28.26 | Fisker | so you've just spent like 20 minutes writing up about a problem |
| 10:28.29 | Adys | accidents went down by an EXTREMELY small number |
| 10:28.36 | Fisker | And you don't want to look stupid so you just go over the search once more |
| 10:28.39 | Fisker | and you find the solution :( |
| 10:28.50 | Adys | people are going slower on roads |
| 10:29.05 | Adys | it takes 12 hours for a Paris => Marseilles instead of 7 hours |
| 10:29.28 | Adys | and you get caught anyway because radars are hypersensitive |
| 10:29.50 | Adys | and people always try to be as close of the speedlimit as possible |
| 10:29.58 | Amarande | Fisker: Murphy's Law. |
| 10:30.03 | Adys | so in the end its just money for the govt and they dont use it for jack |
| 10:30.10 | Amarande | On a completely different point, I am never ever buying this fucking brand of pepper jack cheese again. |
| 10:30.20 | Amarande | seriously, mild cheddar has more of a kick than this shit |
| 10:30.46 | Amarande | its like they used green sweet bell peppers instead of real jalapenos, it's that weaksauce. :| |
| 10:31.02 | Amarande | Adys: yeah, that's one thing I keep wondering about lately |
| 10:31.09 | Amarande | what the hell the government does with all the money |
| 10:31.18 | Amarande | recently here in CT they added bottle deposits to water bottles, and hiked a bunch of taxes |
| 10:31.25 | Arrowmaster | expensive office supplies |
| 10:31.27 | Amarande | and I never even see them doing anything for us with the money as it is |
| 10:31.31 | Adys | french prez just collects it |
| 10:31.34 | Arrowmaster | that they then steal and sell to pawn shops |
| 10:31.41 | Amarande | probably we'll get a scandal at some point saying the gov sent her grandkids to college on state money or something |
| 10:31.42 | Adys | he's married to some kind of top model |
| 10:31.45 | Wobin | Fisker, at least you found out before you posted =) |
| 10:31.51 | Amarande | given the record of connecticut politicians :| |
| 10:32.49 | Amarande | let's see, in just the last decade, we've had a mayor and a past governor found guilty of corruption, and another mayor found guilty of being a pedo |
| 10:32.57 | Amarande | who elects these people anyway :( |
| 10:33.10 | Arrowmaster | corrupte pedos? |
| 10:33.26 | Amarande | Arrow: actually, yeah, the pedo mayor was indeed being investigated for corruption already when they found out he was a kiddie fiddler |
| 10:33.38 | Amarande | that's actually *how* they found out :| |
| 10:33.44 | Amarande | this state is as bad as new jersey heh |
| 10:33.57 | Arrowmaster | no i ment that was the answer to who elects those people |
| 10:34.13 | Amarande | Arrow: gullible morons, apparently |
| 10:34.37 | Amarande | our votes around here don't mean jack because the bigger cities in the state are apparently full of morons |
| 10:35.07 | Adys | night all |
| 10:59.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@h238n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 10:59.44 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 11:02.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@cpe.ge-0-2-0-835.arcnqu2.customer.tele.dk) |
| 11:09.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 11:20.47 | Fisker | Most Common Hotmail Password - A researcher who examined 10,000 Hotmail, MSN and Live.com passwords that were recently exposed online has published an analysis of the list and found that '123456' was the most commonly used password, appearing 64 times. <-find that a bit misleading :P |
| 11:21.20 | Pneumatus | 64/10k is the most common, i find that hard to believe |
| 11:22.12 | Fisker | i think the real thing is that the most common is a secure password |
| 11:22.30 | Fisker | The way they put it makes it sound the other way around |
| 11:23.33 | Bruners | Fisker: should i gem for Arp or strength? |
| 11:23.58 | Fisker | wtf Bruners |
| 11:23.58 | Fisker | wtf. |
| 11:24.08 | Fisker | if you tell me you're a paladin i'll kill you |
| 11:24.37 | Bruners | Fisker: im not, im super awesome death knight |
| 11:25.57 | Fisker | wouldn't know |
| 11:26.05 | Fisker | i guess just like palas a good amount of damage is "magic"? |
| 11:27.05 | cbreak | there are way more secure passwords than insecure ones |
| 11:28.09 | cbreak | most random combinations of letters aren't found in a dictionary for example |
| 11:28.45 | Pneumatus | only MM hunters, ferals and warriors stack arp hard i think |
| 11:28.57 | Pneumatus | rogues/dks/rets i think are better with other stats |
| 11:29.16 | Pneumatus | due to their non-physical damage |
| 11:29.23 | Bruners | after some point arp > strength |
| 11:29.29 | Bruners | but im not sure when |
| 11:29.46 | Pneumatus | yeh, for the latter classes you balance it i think |
| 11:31.22 | Bruners | spellcaster head enchant is where? |
| 11:31.35 | Pneumatus | kirntor |
| 11:31.50 | Pneumatus | sp/crit kirintor, sp/mp5 dragons |
| 11:33.17 | Bruners | anyway, Blood death knight is physical damage |
| 11:37.33 | Fisker | throws a fart at Bruners |
| 11:41.49 | nevcairiel | hm loot frames got a disenchant roll option? |
| 11:41.50 | nevcairiel | nice |
| 11:41.58 | Fisker | oold |
| 11:42.10 | foxlit | One has to wonder what that priority is like |
| 11:42.15 | nevcairiel | Fisker: some people actually work, and don't troll all day :P |
| 11:42.18 | foxlit | need > greed > disenchant > (nothing?) |
| 11:42.31 | nevcairiel | I would've said disenchant is below greed |
| 11:43.10 | foxlit | I think that's what ^ says. |
| 11:43.26 | foxlit | But it's messy :/ |
| 11:43.38 | nevcairiel | INSTANCE_ENCOUNTER_ENGAGE_UNIT .. and boss frames..? |
| 11:43.59 | nevcairiel | sounds interesting |
| 11:44.46 | Fisker | That would be nice actually |
| 11:45.00 | Fisker | wtb grid module asap |
| 11:45.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Ne-vyn (i=lukian@203.123.90.21) |
| 11:45.39 | nevcairiel | with threat displays in base ui |
| 11:45.41 | nevcairiel | kinda nice |
| 11:47.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@2506ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 11:57.57 | *** join/#wowuidev TopTop18 (n=TopTop18@ip231-37-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 11:58.13 | TopTop18 | Eey! |
| 12:02.26 | Amarande | nev: actually, I tend to dislike having stuff in the base UI *sigh* |
| 12:02.47 | Amarande | mainly for this one simple reason: blizzard is pretty terribad at making default UI widgets draggable to fit where you want them to go |
| 12:03.05 | Amarande | which means you STILL have to get an addon to do the same thing, simply so you can move the appropriate thing around where you need it to be |
| 12:09.01 | Fisker | zomg bleeter is that you? |
| 12:09.13 | Fisker | ~seen Jerub |
| 12:09.14 | purl | jerub is currently on #wowuidev (5d 9h 27m 34s). Has said a total of 595 messages. Is idling for 5h 54m 38s, last said: 'hm, seems i need to spend some money on enchants.'. |
| 12:09.16 | Fisker | ~seen bleeter |
| 12:09.17 | purl | bleeter is currently on #norganna #wowuidev. Has said a total of 26 messages. Is idling for 1d 2h 54m 2s, last said: 'obama wins peace nobel http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8298580.stm'. |
| 12:09.17 | foxlit | Amarande: making things draggable is a 3-line affair. |
| 12:09.45 | foxlit | Implementing your own (stuff) is not. |
| 12:13.53 | ZorbaBeta | I wish they'd rig up some kind of group-leader-mutable loot system |
| 12:14.02 | ZorbaBeta | some very basic control over a set of buttons that show up for all your groupmembers |
| 12:14.21 | olafski | in #wow on another network (:P) we discussed the disenchant rolling too and someone remarked that it might be the same as greed but instead of the actual item you'd get the disenchant materials as loot |
| 12:15.03 | ZorbaBeta | that'd really drive the price of disenchant mats down though |
| 12:15.19 | ZorbaBeta | like, hugely. though blizzard has never shown any real interest in making a deep economy |
| 12:15.58 | foxlit | blizzard++ for that. |
| 12:16.08 | ZorbaBeta | --, IMHO, I like economies ;) |
| 12:16.16 | foxlit | I like gameplay. |
| 12:16.23 | olafski | well, nobody runs heroics for the actual loot |
| 12:16.35 | olafski | maybe they did this to make it less of a 'requirement' to bring an enchanter on a heroic run |
| 12:16.36 | ZorbaBeta | olafski, some do, but it is admittedly rare at this point |
| 12:16.48 | Pneumatus | well, id imagine you'd probably need someone in the group with enchanting for the DE option |
| 12:16.49 | foxlit | Perhaps they should sprinkle naxx/uld loot tables over heroic bosses. |
| 12:16.52 | olafski | yeah I run heroics for emblems on my new 80s, if something drops that I can use it's nice :P |
| 12:16.56 | ZorbaBeta | I *could* kind of believe that the "disenchant" button is only available if there's someone able to disenchant |
| 12:17.05 | ZorbaBeta | foxlit, that's called HTotC5 |
| 12:17.21 | foxlit | ZorbaBeta: That's a mouthful. |
| 12:17.23 | ZorbaBeta | and soon, the 5-man Icecrown instances |
| 12:17.31 | ZorbaBeta | (alright sort of soon) |
| 12:17.36 | foxlit | There's also no t :) |
| 12:17.38 | Amarande | Zorba: "soon(tm)" |
| 12:17.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraftman (n=Chris@cpc1-cwma7-2-0-cust280.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 12:18.01 | Amarande | what's the ilvl like on the icecrown 5-mans, btw? |
| 12:18.18 | ZorbaBeta | trial of the champion? TotC :P |
| 12:18.35 | ZorbaBeta | amarande, I've heard 232 on heroic, but they don't drop anything yet |
| 12:18.44 | ZorbaBeta | so I don't know where the 232 claim is coming from honestly |
| 12:19.53 | A-KO | I do believe blizzard announced it |
| 12:20.12 | Amarande | heh, abbreviations vary |
| 12:20.16 | Amarande | and sometimes are terribad |
| 12:20.18 | Amarande | "SH" anyone? :) |
| 12:20.36 | Pneumatus | shattered halls |
| 12:20.46 | Amarande | I think I actually did once join a group for what I believed was Shattered Halls only to find myself bundled off to Sethekk :P |
| 12:22.12 | olafski | stonehearth |
| 12:25.49 | Amarande | haha ... "If you talk to Majordomo before we're ready he'll give you a new quest: [62][D] Looking For Guild!" |
| 12:26.29 | Amarande | sooo |
| 12:26.44 | Amarande | how long do you guys think blizz will give us to enjoy 3.3 before bringing the specter of Cata over the horizon? |
| 12:32.53 | jnwhiteh | I would plan for at least 3.4 |
| 12:34.14 | Amarande | what would be in 3.4? |
| 12:34.39 | Amarande | "oh arthas isn't really dead so now you have to track him down to new area and kill him for good like kael?" |
| 12:34.55 | Amarande | that wouldn't work, that would be like the third instance appearance of Arthas, if he's actually in one of the 3.3 5-mans like I've heard heh |
| 12:35.07 | Amarande | twice is one thing, but thrice people would become like "Oh come ON" |
| 12:35.29 | Amarande | there's enough people lambasting WotLK as a whole as being World of Rehashcraft as it is :P |
| 12:35.58 | Fisker | wtf |
| 12:35.58 | Fisker | http://twitter.com/Alyssa_Milano |
| 12:36.04 | Fisker | I just got my Google Wave invite! |
| 12:36.05 | Fisker | about 11 hours ago from TweetDeck |
| 12:40.13 | Amarande | fisker: it's twitter. it's THE THING. everyone's doing it. |
| 12:40.15 | Amarande | except me. heh. |
| 12:40.30 | Amarande | the only time I touch twitter pretty much is to read Steve Jackson Games' tweets |
| 12:42.46 | olafski | 3.4 will be northrend's troll raid dungeon |
| 12:43.26 | Amarande | where would that be? |
| 12:43.33 | olafski | zuldrak duh ;p |
| 12:43.35 | Amarande | I'd assume it would need to be somewhere in zul'drak |
| 12:43.39 | Amarande | but I don't see any unturned stones there |
| 12:43.44 | Amarande | unless they're going to make zeramas into a raid |
| 12:43.44 | olafski | undead trolls |
| 12:43.48 | olafski | does that ring a bell? ;) |
| 12:43.53 | Amarande | since there seems to be abso-freaking-lutely nada in there right now |
| 12:43.58 | olafski | there's one ziggurat there with nothing in it |
| 12:44.05 | Amarande | yeah, that's zeramas if I remember |
| 12:44.07 | olafski | and they wouldn't really have to model the inside of a ziggurat anymore ;) |
| 12:44.19 | Amarande | ahh yes, and yeah, thanks for reminding me the term is 'ziggurat' |
| 12:44.24 | Amarande | I always ended up saying 'those naxx looking things' |
| 12:44.31 | olafski | zeramas indeed |
| 12:44.41 | olafski | actually it's Necropolis |
| 12:44.47 | olafski | the zigguras are the smaller things on the ground iirc |
| 12:44.48 | olafski | my bad :) |
| 12:44.53 | olafski | ziggurats* |
| 12:45.05 | Amarande | actually, they'd still have to have the normal insides for voltarus and whichever necropolis that one in Borean is called |
| 12:45.12 | Amarande | even if zeramas became a raid like naxx |
| 12:45.27 | Amarande | dammit, what was the one in borean called |
| 12:45.40 | Amarande | "that place I fell and went splat from because I thought I was smart and could use my flying mount instead of the provided teleporter" |
| 12:46.09 | olafski | I used my flying mount there, np oO |
| 12:46.15 | Amarande | well |
| 12:46.25 | Amarande | I didn't realize it would consider me indoors and dismount me BEFORE I landed on the platform |
| 12:46.30 | olafski | Naxxanar? |
| 12:46.30 | Amarande | eeeeeevil blizzard :P |
| 12:46.33 | olafski | ahh ok |
| 12:46.36 | olafski | I landed on top :P |
| 12:46.50 | Amarande | I figured I could fly up into it, like naxx |
| 12:47.13 | Amarande | soo ... how many more expansions do you think we'll go before they spoon feed us naxx again? :D |
| 12:47.29 | Amarande | or before one of the "new" raids is once more an updated ony, or maybe before they hand us ulduar again |
| 12:48.01 | olafski | new MC/BWL pleasde |
| 12:48.03 | olafski | please* |
| 12:49.03 | Amarande | actually, we may be losing MC |
| 12:49.12 | Amarande | I'm not sure exactly what they plan to do about it in cata when ragnaros appears in hyjal |
| 12:49.23 | Amarande | whether they'll just keep him (like how anub and KT are in 2 places now) |
| 12:49.35 | Amarande | or if they'll take him out of MC entirely |
| 12:49.50 | Amarande | although I doubt they'd take out MC as a whole, seeing as MC is mainly, geographically an extension of BRD |
| 12:49.58 | Amarande | and BRD is pretty much an instance they can't take out either |
| 12:50.18 | Amarande | mainly because they've apparently announced there will be no significant changes to the holiday achievements in the future |
| 12:50.21 | olafski | I guess they'll want to keep as much as possible |
| 12:50.32 | Amarande | significant alterations to BRD would mean they'd have to redo Brewfest |
| 12:50.56 | Amarande | although, they're taking away southshore as we know it and that's part of the halloween achievements, so who knows |
| 12:51.39 | Amarande | main thing I've been wondering is if this is the end of horde doing 10-20 in the barrens |
| 12:51.50 | olafski | why would it be? |
| 12:51.50 | Amarande | I presume we'll all move to silverpine and ghostlands not long after Cata hits, for simple reasons |
| 12:51.53 | olafski | cause they can do azshara now? |
| 12:51.56 | Amarande | well, let's look at the Barrens changes |
| 12:52.09 | Amarande | they're taking out Camp T, so the horde quest hubs will only be Ratchet and XR |
| 12:52.22 | olafski | half of the barrens becomes a high level zone |
| 12:52.22 | olafski | I guess they indeed get azshara in place of that |
| 12:52.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=Lunessa@WoWUIDev/Lunessa) |
| 12:52.43 | Amarande | they're also raising the level of southern barrens (not yet announced, but my guess is 25-40 or 30-40, in order to not disrupt RFK/RFD activity too much at the appropriate level) |
| 12:53.04 | Amarande | but most significantly: they are putting an ALLIANCE outpost in southern barrens. |
| 12:53.19 | Amarande | what that makes me think is pretty simple: crossroads is under attack irritatingly often as it is |
| 12:53.30 | Amarande | put an ally outpost even closer to it, and it'll probably be under attack so often as to make questing impossible |
| 12:53.39 | Amarande | (especially since they NEVER give us higher level XR guards despite a fairly obvious need) |
| 12:54.01 | olafski | I wonder why crossroads is such a nice target |
| 12:54.26 | Amarande | too far away from most places people go for it to be convenient to defend, and retardedly low level guards? |
| 12:55.14 | olafski | hm |
| 12:55.16 | Amarande | I mean ... who even goes to XR now besides a) people who have bugged deaths, b) people who are still leveling (and of course have no way of defending XR, seeing as the *guards* are 40, any ally attacking it is going to be way higher, probably 80 ...), c) people working on loremaster |
| 12:55.18 | olafski | never checked out the guard level |
| 12:55.25 | Amarande | otherwise, there's not much point to go there anymore now |
| 12:55.33 | Lunessa | Amarande: The Barrens is going to be two separate areas in Cataclysm - and I think having an Alliance travel hub there will reduce, not increase the attacks - because you won't be fucking pissed off at the long distance you're walking/riding... |
| 12:55.51 | Amarande | Lunessa: I would have thought that the long distance would make attacks less likely :) |
| 12:55.57 | Amarande | I mean, my logic, were I playing ally would be |
| 12:56.05 | Amarande | "this trip is long enough as it is, why would I waste time attacking XR?" |
| 12:56.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Bibi- (n=Bibi@AVelizy-151-1-10-65.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:56.18 | Amarande | it's just like how I don't stop to massacre astranaar when I'm walking through ashenvale as horde :S |
| 12:56.35 | olafski | many horde seem to love that though |
| 12:56.38 | Amarande | even though barring ally players showing up, they're dead meat to an 80 destro lock |
| 12:57.26 | Amarande | besides, I think the only time I ever even had occasion to walk through the barrens as ally was when getting to Ratchet for the first time at relatively low levels, and I wouldn't be able to attack XR then :) |
| 12:57.32 | Lunessa | Meh - people with flying (60+) will be able to fly everywhere on their own. |
| 12:57.56 | olafski | I went to barrens for my lock quest ;p |
| 12:57.58 | Lunessa | And my point is that people on the long walk want to take that frustration out on someone. |
| 12:57.59 | TopTop18 | Is it possible to break a for loop while it's not finished? |
| 12:58.16 | olafski | yes :P |
| 12:58.21 | Amarande | TopTop, the usual way to do that in most languages is to set the variable you're using to measure the for loop to the ending value |
| 12:58.37 | olafski | oh I'm used to just typing 'break;' |
| 12:58.43 | Amarande | to use an example from an archaic and crappy language, FOR I = 1 TO 10 : I = 10 : NEXT I |
| 12:58.44 | olafski | but that works :) |
| 12:59.27 | TopTop18 | Don't really get you Amarande :S |
| 12:59.37 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 12:59.42 | Amarande | man, kids these days |
| 12:59.44 | olafski | toptop18: just set 'i' to whatever you're checking it to not be |
| 12:59.55 | Amarande | you sprouts never had commodore computers and learned everything on BASIC like we did :P |
| 13:00.15 | TopTop18 | I want the for loop to stop looping if a certain condition is met, so | if x==y then stop for loop end| |
| 13:00.16 | olafski | go lie down gramps :P |
| 13:00.26 | olafski | do we need to spell it out for you toptop18 -_- |
| 13:00.31 | Amarande | olafski: get off my lawn :D |
| 13:00.32 | Amarande | lol |
| 13:00.44 | olafski | all that commodore loving |
| 13:00.47 | olafski | so boring :P |
| 13:01.09 | Amarande | anyway, basically what happens with places like XR and Astranaar is simple |
| 13:01.17 | Lunessa | You bastrards never typed for 2 hours and prayed your cassette machine didn't eat your goddamned tape. |
| 13:01.20 | Amarande | the players who are able to actually defend it never go there, because they have no reason to |
| 13:01.44 | olafski | I guess the idea of WorldDefense was that people go there to defend when it's under attack ;p |
| 13:01.46 | Amarande | therefore, the players who are actually trying to level there end up SOL various nights of the week because they have no means of responding to their quest givers being owned over and over and over |
| 13:02.00 | Amarande | olafski: who sets world defense channel on exactly? :) |
| 13:02.14 | Amarande | just what I need, my chat window spammed ALL NIGHT LONG about how the Blue Sky Logging Grounds and Venture Bay are under attack |
| 13:02.18 | olafski | no clue :P |
| 13:02.25 | Amarande | that was annoying enough when I was actually QUESTING in grizzly hills heh |
| 13:02.28 | olafski | Horde took the Overlook! |
| 13:02.51 | TopTop18 | Amarande, Hmm so I have to set i to a value higher then what the loop is looping for? |
| 13:03.05 | Amarande | you want to set i to the end value of the loop |
| 13:03.14 | olafski | or higher I guess ;p |
| 13:03.14 | Amarande | and then skip to the end of that cycle of the loop if you want, so it goes straight to the test |
| 13:03.24 | Amarande | olafski: not sure how different languages handle that :) |
| 13:03.34 | TopTop18 | Well gonna test it with higher :D |
| 13:03.36 | TopTop18 | Thanks! |
| 13:03.38 | olafski | well you check if it's smaller than some value usually |
| 13:03.43 | olafski | so if it isn't that's ok isn't it :) |
| 13:04.17 | Amarande | in fact, I suspect the only reason XR and such get any defense at all now is because of loremaster |
| 13:04.28 | Amarande | which brings at least a few 80s by every now and then since they have to do the quests |
| 13:05.02 | Amarande | and perhaps the occasional low level in a guild that has enough competent high levels to send help |
| 13:05.08 | TopTop18 | Why would someone evn attck dthose places btw? |
| 13:05.33 | Amarande | Top: Lunessa says it's often a means of blowing off steam from the frustration of how long the trip is |
| 13:05.42 | Amarande | especially for something like alliance going through the barrens |
| 13:06.04 | zenzelezz | "if it's red, it should be dead" |
| 13:06.06 | Amarande | there's probably also just plain ridiculous epeen for some for ruining the fun for low levels |
| 13:06.17 | Lunessa | On a PvP server it's a chance to wreck someone's day. On a PVE or RP server it's mostly a chance to wreck someone's day. |
| 13:07.02 | TopTop18 | zenzelezz, how about your blood? |
| 13:07.07 | Amarande | however, I suspect the "guild that has competent high levels to send help" is probably the vast minority, and mostly it's two types of people defending |
| 13:07.28 | Amarande | a) loremaster aspirants, and b) random 80s overflying and alerting their guilds to the HK opportunities |
| 13:07.44 | Amarande | since it seems that comparatively few guilds mix leveling characters and 80s |
| 13:08.00 | Amarande | either you're a leveling guild or you're an 80 instancing guild for the most part or so it at least seems based on guild advertisements |
| 13:08.38 | zenzelezz | TopTop18: I was offering insight into your apparent question |
| 13:08.49 | Amarande | the guild I'm in is an exception, we have a mix of leveling and 80 players, but that's because we're pretty much the WoW arm of an online community whose primary presence is outside of WoW |
| 13:08.58 | TopTop18 | Well mostly it's a good statement xD |
| 13:09.19 | Amarande | and well ... we can't really defend against 80 PvP'ers ... there's only really a few 80s, and most aren't interested in pvp at all |
| 13:09.34 | Amarande | the few that have any interest in pvp ... well only I probably have gear enough to fight |
| 13:09.47 | Amarande | and even I die plenty when joining XR defense commando groups. :) |
| 13:09.57 | Amarande | that 87 resil doesn't go very far against pvp geared rogues. |
| 13:10.08 | Wobin | Amarande, maybe wearing underwear will help survivability |
| 13:10.20 | Amarande | wobin: LOL! |
| 13:10.26 | Amarande | btw, speaking of dying plenty defending XR |
| 13:10.48 | Amarande | is there a limit to how long the resurrect timer can get extended to after repeated ganking, or can it potentially extend all the way to Tuesday maintenance if you die enough? |
| 13:11.02 | Amarande | (assuming it's *not* late monday night when you're being ganked, that is :P) |
| 13:11.27 | Wobin | I don't have the patience to get ganked that many times |
| 13:12.05 | Lunessa | Amarande: I also contend that there isn't widespread interest in "city defense" |
| 13:12.24 | TopTop18 | Hmm I think I never got it to more then 3 mins ro so |
| 13:12.39 | Lunessa | Only a few sadists and masochists bother. |
| 13:13.38 | Wobin | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:13.54 | Wobin | if we got achievements for defending towns, people would totally do it |
| 13:14.11 | Wobin | but there's no lasting penalty for having a city leader killed |
| 13:14.12 | Amarande | Maybe they can make some of the 85 quest chains involve fedex deliveries through XR or such |
| 13:14.21 | Lunessa | You only get them for killing people in your capitols. |
| 13:14.28 | Amarande | which would keep a steady flow for at least a while of top players going through the more defense-needed places |
| 13:14.58 | Amarande | especially if the quests are, say, essential to raid attunement or such. |
| 13:15.14 | Amarande | "look you kids, you are getting in the way of <TOP RAID GUILD NAME HERE>'s SERIOUS BUSINESS. Die." |
| 13:15.41 | Lunessa | No more raid attunements please. I don't need any more jackasses suddenly asking "Why can't I get in?" |
| 13:16.02 | Amarande | and then a few bullied teenagers get to drop to the ground dead while a bunch of T12 geared raiders /spit on them. :) |
| 13:16.07 | Wobin | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:16.17 | zenzelezz | me too, actually |
| 13:16.44 | Amarande | meh, their abolishment led to a new golden age for social WoW |
| 13:16.45 | Lunessa | Sure... Run BRD BRS until you're ready to PUKE getting people attuned to MC and BWL. |
| 13:17.06 | Amarande | and what's an MMO, if it doesn't bring people together? |
| 13:17.07 | zenzelezz | MC wasn't bad |
| 13:17.18 | zenzelezz | BWL wasn't really either. Onyxia was too much |
| 13:17.27 | Amarande | attunements kept people kinda insular within guilds, because you didn't even know that many people out of guild who could even GO to the raid even if you wanted to pug |
| 13:17.29 | zenzelezz | but most of the BC ones were about right in my opinion |
| 13:17.48 | Amarande | and most of them, chances are, belonged to other guilds and had a responsibility to keep their raid ID clear for guild :) |
| 13:18.12 | Amarande | there was also some non trivial issues in BC centering around BM in particular |
| 13:18.15 | zenzelezz | there are good and bad things to both sides (attunement vs. no attunement) |
| 13:18.30 | Amarande | especially if you were late to the party, were an alchemist and decided to go elixir |
| 13:18.46 | Amarande | with the cooldown on primal might, going the transmute-and-change route was just plain retarded |
| 13:18.54 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@89-151-222.200.3p.ntebredband.no) |
| 13:18.58 | Amarande | but for elixir you had to (and still have to) go to BM |
| 13:19.04 | Amarande | which meant you had to get someone to take you through durnholde. |
| 13:19.26 | Amarande | by spring 2008 or so? many people still were interested in BM (especially heroic), but *no one* cared to go to durnholde |
| 13:19.41 | Fisker | slaps Wobin around a bit with a large trout |
| 13:19.43 | p3lim | you did durnholde while you leveled |
| 13:19.47 | Amarande | It wasn't till I transferred to Quel'dorei, with its notorious bad horde progression that I actually got to do durnholde |
| 13:19.48 | p3lim | most people did |
| 13:19.53 | zenzelezz | p3lim: did. Not anymore |
| 13:20.03 | Amarande | p3lim: on turalyon, most people leveled straight to 70 and only then thought much of instancing |
| 13:20.13 | Amarande | on Quel'dorei, instance groups on the way up were more popular |
| 13:20.28 | Wobin | You quest ground til nagrand, or maybe the beginning of BEM |
| 13:20.34 | Wobin | and that was enough to get you to 70 |
| 13:20.49 | Wobin | I did a lot of HFP |
| 13:20.58 | Wobin | and Zangarmarsh instanceing |
| 13:21.03 | Wobin | a few of the Lower City ones |
| 13:21.27 | Kalroth | When I leveled the first time I totally skipped Hellfire and Zangarmarsh |
| 13:21.33 | Kalroth | Due to the competition |
| 13:21.44 | Amarande | Kalroth: you didn't miss much |
| 13:21.46 | Amarande | hellfire sucks :) |
| 13:21.56 | Amarande | and even if you like it to begin with |
| 13:22.00 | Kalroth | Well I went back when bored and I was happy I had a flying mount :p |
| 13:22.07 | Amarande | once you start leveling a few alts you start getting to 60 and you're like OMG NO NOT HELLFIRE AGAIN GOD PLEASE NO |
| 13:22.11 | Wobin | It was good training for me |
| 13:22.23 | Wobin | as I dual specced to resto at that point |
| 13:22.23 | Amarande | at least Northrend gives you a choice :) |
| 13:22.35 | Amarande | although on Alvaerin, I actually did both HF and BT before moving on to Dragonblight |
| 13:22.39 | Amarande | but that was for more specific reasons |
| 13:22.48 | Wobin | Amarande, eh, I'm never going to do BT again |
| 13:22.54 | Wobin | HF is so much nicer |
| 13:23.05 | Amarande | well, in this case I had loremaster achievements in mind, and decided it would be much easier to get all the quests from both if I did both before moving on |
| 13:23.13 | Amarande | because that way I would make sure to do the quests while they were still well in the green |
| 13:23.32 | Amarande | if I waited till later to do the second 'starter' zone ... well, if I were or dinged 79 while still there |
| 13:23.42 | olafski | I much prefer BT over HF :) |
| 13:23.46 | Amarande | lots of the quests would have gone gray and I'd have had to sacrifice mining to activate the low level tracker |
| 13:23.52 | olafski | and I love hellfire :< |
| 13:24.06 | olafski | "omg.. half a level more until I can finally go to outland" |
| 13:24.07 | Amarande | I refuse to go to Hellfire till 60 |
| 13:24.10 | Amarande | at that point, it's tolerable |
| 13:24.14 | Amarande | olafski: 58 or 60 for you? |
| 13:24.15 | olafski | oh I go there at 58 instantly :) |
| 13:24.15 | mikma | wobin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO4cw565V98 |
| 13:24.18 | Amarande | ah. |
| 13:24.24 | olafski | done it a couple of times too |
| 13:24.28 | Amarande | I went at 58 once, on my priest |
| 13:24.33 | olafski | I started last november and have 7 chars through that zone now |
| 13:24.33 | Amarande | and found the aggro situation to be uncomfortable |
| 13:24.53 | Amarande | after that I started waiting till 60 as a matter of choice |
| 13:25.05 | Amarande | it's not like you can't get to like 62-64 or so off old world effortlessly now, right? :) |
| 13:25.16 | olafski | bleh |
| 13:25.19 | Wobin | ugh |
| 13:25.21 | olafski | it goes at least twice as fast in hellfire :P |
| 13:25.30 | Wobin | into HFP at 58 |
| 13:25.34 | Amarande | and you get to see fun places like silithus. |
| 13:25.49 | *** join/#wowuidev krka (n=krka@c-177ae155.159-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 13:25.50 | Wobin | ... |
| 13:25.52 | olafski | in outland I _always_ do hfp, zangarmarsh and nagrand |
| 13:25.54 | olafski | usually 68 by then |
| 13:25.57 | Wobin | Your idea of fun differs from most people's =P |
| 13:26.07 | Amarande | Wobin: what's wrong with silithus? |
| 13:26.14 | Amarande | other than maybe that one little chain at valor's rest |
| 13:26.21 | Wobin | I suspect it's utterly ruined for me |
| 13:26.24 | Amarande | because it's like a 1000yd walk back and forth one-at-a-time for quests |
| 13:26.29 | Wobin | from the amount of farming I had to do in it |
| 13:26.37 | Amarande | wobin: ahh, you had to do the farming for the aq40 chain :) |
| 13:27.42 | Amarande | ok, how about winterspring and plaguelands? |
| 13:27.56 | Wobin | far too much time in those too |
| 13:28.03 | Wobin | WS I did constant loops |
| 13:28.07 | Wobin | for thorium |
| 13:28.12 | Wobin | to get my rogue's BS up |
| 13:28.16 | Amarande | ah ... I always use Burning Steppes for thorium |
| 13:28.21 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 13:28.27 | Wobin | much better in WS |
| 13:28.27 | olafski | I like plaguelands |
| 13:28.31 | Amarande | because you can pretty much just ride round the perimeter mining as you go and not miss much |
| 13:28.32 | Wobin | With sneak |
| 13:28.43 | Wobin | I could get a stack and a half each round |
| 13:28.50 | olafski | I use ungoro for thorium :( |
| 13:29.01 | olafski | bbl :-) |
| 13:29.08 | Amarande | I'm trying not to think of how much thorium Amaagnar will need when he hits 35 |
| 13:29.17 | Wobin | mikma, That first part where you drive the car -into- the water must feel so scary =P |
| 13:29.24 | Amarande | he's ... BS/Eng |
| 13:29.30 | Wobin | ugh |
| 13:29.43 | Amarande | that reminds me, do you need to make assloads of stuff to start off gnomish eng, or do you just sign up? |
| 13:29.49 | mikma | wobin: and, wet! |
| 13:30.04 | Wobin | I think you can just sign up now |
| 13:30.24 | Amarande | I figured since I already have a character who's 80 with 450 mining, why bother taking mining again and having BS and Eng on separate characters |
| 13:30.42 | Amarande | although, if I had known we were going to get Titansteel, three miners wouldn't have been so bad heh |
| 13:31.11 | Amarande | it's gonna be so slow to make anything at top BS without paying out the nose for the service of someone else's CD |
| 13:31.43 | Amarande | why can't any of the BS stuff actually just use, you know, titanium |
| 13:31.48 | Amarande | like the other metal using professions use :) |
| 13:32.24 | Wobin | eh, I have one gathering toon |
| 13:32.25 | Lunessa | Amarande: You have to make some tubes or something |
| 13:32.27 | Wobin | as my 80DK |
| 13:32.43 | Wobin | he feeds all the other alts, with herbs and ore |
| 13:33.57 | Amarande | I currently have (though some are very low level still) |
| 13:34.33 | Amarande | Warlock (JC & mining), Warrior (herbs & alch), Hunter (eng & BS), Druid (skinning & LW), Priest (ench & tailoring) |
| 13:34.48 | Amarande | still haven't rolled up a 6th active duty character to do inscription + ???, though |
| 13:35.08 | Amarande | (I'm suspecting mining would be the best choice for the second profession there, to get two titansteel CDs a day) |
| 13:36.22 | Amarande | anyway. it's after 9:30 |
| 13:36.30 | Amarande | Can't do that while asleep |
| 13:36.35 | Amarande | Can't do that while asleep ... |
| 13:36.37 | Amarande | later folks. :) |
| 13:38.31 | Lunessa | Ok, because it was inflicted on me last night... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBJzZts4qZo - may not be work safe. |
| 13:39.05 | Wobin | This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions. |
| 13:41.12 | Lunessa | Shakira - in mostly nothing - singing about being a werewolf |
| 13:41.31 | Kalroth | This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions. :( |
| 13:41.39 | Kalroth | no boobies for me :( |
| 13:41.54 | Wobin | Lunessa, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36Xt-XeWnHM&feature=channel |
| 13:42.49 | Lunessa | Wobin: That's pretty frikkin sweet. |
| 13:43.23 | Wobin | All of Paul Dateh's work is pretty damn good |
| 13:43.37 | Lunessa | I'm going to have to watch a lot of those today. |
| 13:44.04 | TopTop18 | Hmm is it possible to have a for loop in a for loop? as the second for loops test code never runs :S |
| 13:44.18 | Lunessa | Once I finish my mandatory online training in the prevention of sexual harassment, fraud prevention, HR Policies, and Data Security. |
| 13:44.24 | jnwhiteh | TopTop18: yes, you can have a for loop in a for loop. |
| 13:44.49 | jnwhiteh | lua> for i = 1, 3 do for j = 4, 6 do print(tostring(i) .. tostring(k)) end end |
| 13:44.50 | lua_bot | jnwhiteh: 1nil, 1nil, 1nil, 2nil, 2nil, 2nil, 3nil, 3nil, 3nil |
| 13:44.58 | jnwhiteh | lua> for i = 1, 3 do for j = 4, 6 do print(tostring(i) .. tostring(j)) end end |
| 13:44.58 | lua_bot | jnwhiteh: 14, 15, 16, 24, 25, 26, 34, 35, 36 |
| 13:45.36 | TopTop18 | Hmm why bdoes my test message never runs then :S |
| 13:45.44 | jnwhiteh | cause you're "doing it wrong" :P |
| 13:45.51 | TopTop18 | sec pastying the func |
| 13:45.59 | TopTop18 | Ye probably xD |
| 13:48.27 | Lunessa | Damn Wobin - that guys is amazing. |
| 13:48.42 | Wobin | isn't he? =) |
| 13:48.56 | Wobin | I went and bought his album, after watching a few of his youtube vids |
| 13:49.05 | Wobin | I really like his cover of Blackbird |
| 13:49.06 | TopTop18 | The upmost part is only so you know where temptable comes from, bottom aprt are the for in for loops. The test message loop2 never runs. Yes I'll change the bad naming sometime xD |
| 13:49.08 | Fisker | google wave is boring as fuck :( |
| 13:49.08 | TopTop18 | http://toptop18.pastey.net/126331 |
| 13:49.26 | Wobin | and the Sesame Street classic: I don't want to live on the moon =) |
| 13:49.33 | Wobin | Fisker, you need some friends |
| 13:49.58 | Fisker | duh |
| 13:50.00 | Lunessa | listening to that now |
| 13:50.08 | Fisker | i'm so ronery Wobin |
| 13:51.16 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo (n=gdbzet26@p4FEFD768.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:51.31 | Lunessa | You are usress Fisker! |
| 13:52.25 | Fisker | you mean useress? |
| 13:53.10 | Lunessa | He's Kim Jeong Il bitches. He doesn't need to spell. |
| 14:02.11 | *** join/#wowuidev asfdfas (n=asdf@87.93.48.205) |
| 14:03.07 | asfdfas | Hey, can i ask question about ptibull here or is there other channel for it :S |
| 14:03.11 | asfdfas | pitbull* |
| 14:03.52 | Lunessa | ~asktoask |
| 14:03.52 | purl | This is IRC. Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help. |
| 14:04.16 | asfdfas | ok, is it safe and ok to use pitbull 4? |
| 14:04.25 | asfdfas | im thinking of moving it from pitbull 3 |
| 14:04.42 | A-KO | I would imagine if it wasn't safe to use that it would not be released :P |
| 14:04.55 | asfdfas | its released? i tho its only some beta |
| 14:05.33 | Wobin | beta does not mean safe |
| 14:05.35 | mikma | haste: http://www.geekologie.com/2008/09/my_little_pony_star_wars_chara.php |
| 14:05.57 | asfdfas | what it means then? |
| 14:06.02 | haste | D: |
| 14:06.13 | asfdfas | well.. its not the point. should i already move to it or not? |
| 14:06.20 | Wobin | mikma, omg, the stormtrooper pony is awesome |
| 14:06.37 | Wobin | asfdfas, if you're willing to risk using beta software, then sure. |
| 14:07.09 | mikma | wobin: i agree :D |
| 14:07.15 | mikma | on both lines |
| 14:07.21 | asfdfas | oh.. it has a risk... dang. :( then i think i wont use it yet.. |
| 14:07.38 | A-KO | wow people are so demanding :/ My friend and I work on an addon together for fun, so neither she nor I work on the addon without the other. (we actually do our work in team viewer), and this dude is like "Not to sound pushy but when do you think we'll get a fix for this?"--and I"m like....uuuh....."We've got lives" |
| 14:07.44 | Wobin | mikma, omg http://spippo.deviantart.com/art/My-Little-Gene-Simmons-130687099 |
| 14:08.10 | haste | A-KO: fix it!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111 |
| 14:08.14 | Lunessa | Pitbull 3 is barely on life support, I'd bite the bullet and move to Pitbull 4. |
| 14:08.16 | Wobin | A-KO, You respond "Well, yes, you are sounding pushy" |
| 14:08.29 | mikma | wobin: HAHAHA |
| 14:08.35 | Wobin | or perhaps "Not to sound insulting, but fuck off" |
| 14:08.47 | Lunessa | ^^ |
| 14:09.01 | A-KO | well haste it's not a critical bug, it's not like "OMG IT DELETES ALL YOUR ADDONS!", and it's nothing that cuts core functionality, just something we overlooked with a condition of WoW's items in the games, and it's like well....just don't use it for that purpose then lol |
| 14:09.05 | A-KO | and we'll get an update when we can |
| 14:09.10 | Wobin | mikma, it even has the chest hair >< |
| 14:09.14 | Lunessa | There's a reason none of my code is released - well, aside from the fact that most of it sucks. |
| 14:09.18 | asfdfas | but i dont want my system to crash or anything |
| 14:09.26 | A-KO | asfdfas: it won't crash your system |
| 14:09.33 | A-KO | well, shouldn't |
| 14:09.36 | A-KO | if it does, WoW problem |
| 14:09.37 | asfdfas | well, is anyone of you using it? |
| 14:09.45 | Lunessa | Pitbull 4 is very useable and very stable. |
| 14:09.52 | asfdfas | ok, cool! |
| 14:10.04 | Wobin | mikma, http://spippo.deviantart.com/art/My-Little-Chewbacca-105482223 |
| 14:10.06 | Lunessa | And before you ask, NO, it won't import your PB3 setup |
| 14:10.29 | Wobin | omg, My Little Predator and My Little Cthulhu |
| 14:10.31 | haste | A-KO: man, your so making all the other add-on authors look good by this! |
| 14:10.41 | Wobin | http://spippo.deviantart.com/art/My-Little-Cthulhu-94509492 |
| 14:10.42 | A-KO | Lunessa: I thought about that for a while, I'm more or less an amateur developer, with most of my work having been done in scripting environments more than any real programming languages, very high level stuff, and usually additions to functionality here or there....but then I figured eh, there's probably much worse code out there than what I'm doing so |
| 14:10.44 | A-KO | as long as it works :P |
| 14:10.47 | A-KO | haha haste |
| 14:10.48 | haste | A-KO: also another reply that works very well: Then use another addon instead. |
| 14:11.02 | A-KO | eh I just pretty much told the guy that we have lives |
| 14:11.02 | haste | that's generally my reply when people are being asses about stuff |
| 14:11.04 | asfdfas | well im installing addons on freshly installed wow |
| 14:11.06 | mikma | wobin: ok, that's hilarious |
| 14:11.34 | Wobin | http://spippo.deviantart.com/art/More-pics-My-Little-Alien-83289638 |
| 14:11.39 | mikma | wobin: hah, finnish artist ^^ |
| 14:11.48 | asfdfas | whos finnish? |
| 14:11.55 | asfdfas | i am :p |
| 14:12.14 | Lunessa | A-KO: Yeah. Anything AddOn that gets released that isn't a major project for someone (AKA QuestHelper or similar) that people actively solicit money for is basically doing the community a favor. And no one has the right to demand you do more favors. This isn't the mafia. :P |
| 14:12.16 | Wobin | oh awesome: http://spippo.deviantart.com/art/My-Little-Solo-in-Carbonite-111132514 |
| 14:12.33 | mikma | wobin: http://www.marikasurinen.com/gfx/galleries/sculptures/catwoman1.jpg |
| 14:12.57 | mikma | wobin: http://www.marikasurinen.com/sculptures_main.html# <- :DDD |
| 14:13.08 | mikma | alienpony, predatorpony.. |
| 14:13.53 | mikma | hahaha, jacksparrowpony |
| 14:14.07 | Wobin | The JokerPony is pretty good |
| 14:14.08 | *** join/#wowuidev spode- (i=spode@213-21-88-111.bon.t3.se) |
| 14:14.16 | mikma | My little Edward Scissorhand |
| 14:15.11 | asfdfas | well, as you seem to be addon experts, i ask one more thingy, whats that addon that shows all fubar plugins and stuff in small bars there on top of action bars? it itsnt fubar for sure cos it isnt a bar. its multiple mini bars. heres the pic: http://media.curse.com/CommunityServer.Components.PostAttachments/00/00/40/04/41/WoWScrnShot_021109_205444.jpg |
| 14:15.56 | A-KO | hmmm |
| 14:15.59 | A-KO | I need to find something to do today |
| 14:16.00 | A-KO | oh I know |
| 14:16.01 | Wobin | broker? |
| 14:16.05 | mikma | wobin: my little lady gaga, my little michael jackson :D |
| 14:16.07 | A-KO | maybe I'll go to the rennaisance festival |
| 14:16.41 | asfdfas | broker? |
| 14:16.47 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (i=harl@dslb-088-077-194-085.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:17.21 | Wobin | asfdfas, StatBlock |
| 14:17.26 | Wobin | possibly |
| 14:17.55 | asfdfas | ok, ima install it |
| 14:18.42 | asfdfas | oh and http://media.curse.com/CommunityServer.Components.PostAttachments/00/00/40/04/39/WoWScrnShot_020809_225353.jpg that HUD addon? see that small circle around the player? its not DHUD cos i tried it and its not the same, not even near |
| 14:19.22 | Stanzilla | it's just a poweraura |
| 14:19.30 | foxlit | Gah. |
| 14:19.35 | asfdfas | poweraura is addon? |
| 14:19.52 | foxlit | I've coded myself out of a sensible way to debug the options panel by not giving it a name. |
| 14:20.32 | asfdfas | where can i find poweraura ? |
| 14:21.07 | mikma | hah, stupid japanese has turned groundglutter level to max |
| 14:21.07 | Wobin | damn, where can I get someone to buy me a monitor with that resolution? |
| 14:21.20 | Wobin | mikma, chinese =P |
| 14:21.30 | mikma | wobin: zingzong |
| 14:21.43 | Wobin | get it right |
| 14:21.54 | Wobin | stupid norwegian =P |
| 14:22.21 | mikma | wobin: http://www.trustedreviews.com/monitors/review/2007/03/09/Samsung-SyncMaster-226BW/p1 <- me and wife got that one. loving it. |
| 14:22.58 | Lunessa | Wobin: You playing at some tiny screen rez you poor bastard? |
| 14:23.35 | A-KO | http://www.break.com/index/reality-contestant-pops-breast-implant.html < wow |
| 14:23.41 | Lunessa | asfdfas: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/cat109.html - take your pick. |
| 14:23.45 | Wobin | Lunessa, eh 1680x1050 |
| 14:23.55 | Lunessa | Wobin: Me too. |
| 14:24.11 | A-KO | I play on a 23" at 1920x1080 |
| 14:24.12 | Lunessa | Well, + a 1440x900 tacked onto the side. |
| 14:24.40 | mikma | wobin: http://mikma.eu/wow/WoWScrnShot_092709_203046.jpg ^^ |
| 14:25.27 | Wobin | mikma, You appear to be dead |
| 14:25.38 | mikma | wobin: not in that one :I |
| 14:25.45 | Wobin | oh |
| 14:25.48 | mikma | but in others i might ;) |
| 14:25.49 | _rane | GNOEM |
| 14:25.54 | mikma | http://mikma.eu/wow/WoWScrnShot_092609_224221.jpg |
| 14:25.55 | Wobin | You appear to only have been causing 6th in dps =P |
| 14:25.57 | mikma | like this one |
| 14:26.04 | mikma | wobin: i'm second tank, nob |
| 14:27.54 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@89-151-222.200.3p.ntebredband.no) |
| 14:29.59 | Lunessa | http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w227/matt_converse/WoW%20Interface%20Gallery/Unkle-UI-raid-2009-09-30.jpg Me, currently. |
| 14:31.00 | Wobin | eh, my ui is a mess |
| 14:31.10 | mikma | wobin: http://mikma.eu/wow/WoWScrnShot_101009_173023.jpg helloooooo! |
| 14:31.33 | Wobin | god, you can see into eternity =( |
| 14:31.57 | Lunessa | Looking at recount in your screenies is making me feel inadequate. |
| 14:32.28 | mikma | how come |
| 14:33.24 | Lunessa | I'm seeing your top folks pushing 7K. My best performance to date is 5.6K |
| 14:33.57 | Lunessa | Correction, almost 8K for one of your mages. |
| 14:33.57 | asfdfas | do the old statblock plugins work anymore |
| 14:34.23 | *** join/#wowuidev taleden (n=atfrase@user-38q41i6.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 14:34.39 | asfdfas | it shows old date |
| 14:34.45 | mikma | lunessa: well yeah, it was because of the AoE most likely :P not the dps from boss |
| 14:34.52 | mikma | for boss* |
| 14:35.02 | Wobin | I'm hitting 4k on my enh shammy |
| 14:35.10 | Wobin | and I'm happy with that so far |
| 14:35.15 | Wobin | cause he's not raid geared |
| 14:35.37 | Wobin | just ridiculous burst with bloodlust and ghostpups |
| 14:35.42 | Lunessa | mikma: I'm an enhancement shaman. I'm sick of working super-hard and hitting 4.5-5K in raids. I want MOAR DPS LAWL |
| 14:36.19 | mikma | lunessa: afaik, that's pretty normal dps from enhancement :P altho my friend puts up MOHR than that... |
| 14:36.33 | asfdfas | hey, what are other statblock plugins cos these ones are outdated |
| 14:36.42 | asfdfas | i found some for 3.1 but not sure they work |
| 14:36.55 | mikma | lunessa: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Sylvanas&n=M%C3%B6r%C3%B6k%C3%B6lli |
| 14:36.58 | Lunessa | There's another enhancement shaman I raid with, she and I jockey back and forth on the meter. Sometimes she's ahead, sometimes I am. |
| 14:37.10 | mikma | oh great |
| 14:37.14 | mikma | he has pvp gear on :( |
| 14:37.38 | asfdfas | can you help |
| 14:37.52 | Wobin | mikma, oh yeah, that's the sort of gear level I'll never get =P |
| 14:38.12 | Wobin | asfdfas, did you load it up at all? Or just give up at the login screen? |
| 14:38.25 | Wobin | Did you even -try-? |
| 14:38.37 | mikma | wobin: me neither. but you have to know that my friend is extremely hc raider |
| 14:38.55 | mikma | he lost his job and he doesn't leave the house that often anymore |
| 14:38.58 | asfdfas | no i didnt try. cos they are outdated, im askin if there are newer ones somewhere else |
| 14:39.01 | mikma | his life is now wow :I |
| 14:39.05 | Wobin | grrr |
| 14:39.11 | Wobin | then no, I won't help |
| 14:39.30 | Wobin | Cause I don't care enough to offer advice that gets dismissed out of hand like that. |
| 14:39.32 | mikma | wobin: Lifetime Honorable Kills: 143500 :) |
| 14:39.59 | mikma | wobin: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-achievements.xml?r=Sylvanas&cn=M%C3%B6r%C3%B6k%C3%B6lli&gn=Federal+Bureau+of+Moo <- proof that he does live in the game |
| 14:40.01 | asfdfas | well, i dont even get this plugin thing, what work in statblock |
| 14:40.02 | Wobin | If you're not going to make an effort to even -try- to load them up to see if they match, I'm not going to do the legwork to match them for you |
| 14:40.15 | asfdfas | i can try but i dont understand this |
| 14:40.23 | Wobin | mikma, nice name |
| 14:40.25 | asfdfas | they arent for statblock |
| 14:40.38 | mikma | wobin: "mörökölli" means "boogeyman" in finnish |
| 14:40.39 | asfdfas | it says that it supports some but idk what |
| 14:40.47 | Wobin | Meant guild name =P |
| 14:40.50 | mikma | well, something like that. thathaa -> |
| 14:40.51 | mikma | heh |
| 14:41.06 | asfdfas | Mikma, im goin to greet you, morjensta |
| 14:42.17 | Wobin | mikma, only 20% of that guild moos =( |
| 14:42.46 | asfdfas | ok they work but is there newer ones |
| 14:43.00 | Wobin | Go find them |
| 14:43.01 | asfdfas | cos it says they are outdated still even if i check box |
| 14:43.04 | asfdfas | -.- |
| 14:43.09 | asfdfas | im trying to |
| 14:43.13 | Wobin | no you're not |
| 14:43.15 | asfdfas | but i dont know what ones it supports |
| 14:43.17 | Wobin | you're asking us to find them for you |
| 14:43.19 | asfdfas | it supports 2 kinds |
| 14:43.24 | asfdfas | but what else? |
| 14:43.28 | Wobin | Go search curse.com |
| 14:43.29 | Wobin | or wowi |
| 14:43.33 | Wobin | and -look- for them |
| 14:43.58 | Wobin | we've already offered what suggestions we know |
| 14:43.58 | asfdfas | what word i put in?! |
| 14:44.04 | asfdfas | liek what? |
| 14:44.09 | Wobin | STAT BLOCK |
| 14:44.10 | Wobin | FFS |
| 14:44.14 | asfdfas | they are outdated |
| 14:44.22 | Wobin | Do I look like I care anymore? |
| 14:44.23 | asfdfas | work but outdated |
| 14:44.27 | asfdfas | i cant see you |
| 14:44.36 | asfdfas | ;) |
| 14:45.35 | Wobin | To be brutally honest, asfdfas, you've worn down my care factor to about -5 |
| 14:45.35 | Wobin | so go help yourself |
| 14:45.35 | Wobin | and stop complaining |
| 14:46.08 | asfdfas | i havent complained, i just said i cannot find more, i didnt ask your help, i asked generally, now, plz, stop that, i dont want a fight here :S |
| 14:47.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (n=ozzy@c-98-245-3-204.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 14:47.36 | Lunessa | asfdfas: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=442927843&sid=1 - Read. Then you will be educated. |
| 14:48.25 | asfdfas | thanks! |
| 14:48.38 | asfdfas | at least you understand that im newb :D |
| 14:48.45 | TopTop18 | Anyone has an idea why http://toptop18.pastey.net/126331 isn;t running the loop2 test message? :S |
| 14:56.56 | foxlit | Because your table is empty? |
| 15:05.09 | Lunessa | Wait, I remember you. In the mountains! |
| 15:06.33 | TopTop18 | The 7th line fills it? |
| 15:07.31 | TopTop18 | table.insert(FF_DKP_Manager.temptable, name) |
| 15:12.53 | foxlit | Does that line run? |
| 15:15.09 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@89.151.222.200) |
| 15:15.38 | TopTop18 | Hmm it did before |
| 15:15.42 | TopTop18 | checking again |
| 15:17.08 | TopTop18 | whoha |
| 15:17.10 | TopTop18 | :S |
| 15:17.25 | TopTop18 | disable loop1 message, now getting a row of loop2 messages oO |
| 15:18.08 | TopTop18 | while first I only saw a row of loop1 messages oO |
| 15:18.46 | TopTop18 | and the test message below the line is running so the table fille rline gets run |
| 15:18.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (n=outlaw@98.207.200.159) |
| 15:19.41 | TopTop18 | rewriting the test message to only get run thrice to get a etter view brb |
| 15:25.55 | TopTop18 | Okay I think it works as it should work, but it seems strange to have it run for the first time without the error box appearing xD |
| 15:27.33 | TopTop18 | Would be great if someone could verify it works as it should :D, It's supposed to add new guildmembersa to the dkp table and remove members that left from it |
| 15:28.30 | TopTop18 | And then onto the next part of the addon :D |
| 15:40.19 | tem | You know something I just thought about... If everyone has amazing gear at the end of LK since they're just handing it out these days, I wonder if the quest gear will be usually good at the start of Cataclysm |
| 15:43.56 | foxlit | BC->LK gear transition was kind of meh, tbh. |
| 15:44.16 | foxlit | [assuming you raided in BC] |
| 15:44.34 | Lunessa | Haha - http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2009/10/09/urnidgns002570F3005978D80025764A005695A4.DTL |
| 15:57.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Norsken (n=xkxaxn@84-217-11-250.tn.glocalnet.net) |
| 15:57.29 | NightHawkTheSane | tem: do you mean 'unusually'? in any case, unlikely, as they'll probably want to keep it smooth for people leveling straight through |
| 16:03.53 | tem | NHTS, the gear jump in outland was much higher than the gear jump in northrend |
| 16:04.20 | tem | foxlit, that's what I'm talking about I didn't replace my t4/t5ish dps gear until 75 |
| 16:04.25 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, i know |
| 16:04.32 | tem | in BC I was replacing t2 almost immediately |
| 16:04.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan (n=pancake@cpe-174-098-002-214.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 16:06.01 | NightHawkTheSane | but i dont think they decide how much to jump gear based on how 'awesome' the general populace is at the end :P |
| 16:11.36 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (n=stolenle@86.32.230.29) |
| 16:12.26 | foxlit | Hm, sucks. |
| 16:13.08 | foxlit | So I have this template, XBar, that defines a status bar (textures, font strings and such). |
| 16:13.27 | foxlit | Then I have a bunch of other templates that simply inherit from XBar and change its size. |
| 16:14.11 | foxlit | That doesn't let me change, say, the font size of one of those font strings :( |
| 16:18.38 | tem | NHTS, you're probably right |
| 16:25.22 | Lunessa | Google groups fixed a search bug, and now I'm embarrassing myself by reading some of my old USENET posts. |
| 16:31.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelobin (n=Aelobin@85.210.188.131) |
| 16:36.48 | *** join/#wowuidev SinusPi (i=sinus@77-254-190-198.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 16:45.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker (i=lolgourr@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 16:47.47 | TopTop18 | Noes fisker ish back :( |
| 16:48.30 | TopTop18 | Think he;'s gonna slap me with a trout now |
| 16:56.08 | Fisker | slaps TopTop18 around a bit with a large trout |
| 17:00.45 | Lunessa | So strange to find google results for my name for people who totally aren't me. |
| 17:00.56 | Lunessa | With strange overlap. |
| 17:03.58 | A-KO | iphone os 3.1.2 update for those with iphones :P |
| 17:14.25 | TopTop18 | slaps Fisker around a bit with a large trout |
| 17:14.31 | TopTop18 | I slaps back! |
| 17:22.06 | *** join/#wowuidev mascondante (i=kvirc@99-196-56-224.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 17:23.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Fatalis_ (n=gaben@24-107-57-101.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 17:24.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Fatalis (n=gaben@24.107.57.101) |
| 17:47.47 | *** join/#wowuidev felipe` (n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se) |
| 18:03.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@217.44.65.234) |
| 18:03.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@2506ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 18:06.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelobin (n=Aelobin@85.210.188.131) |
| 18:09.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (n=xinhuan@bb116-14-30-176.singnet.com.sg) |
| 18:14.37 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@67.166.76.157) |
| 18:29.15 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (i=as@c-69-143-90-155.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 18:29.56 | Shirik|zZz | http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/10/linux_02.jpg |
| 18:32.20 | Pneumatus | kill: usage: kill [-s sigspec | -n signum | -sigspec] pid | jobspec ... or kill -l [sigspec] |
| 18:32.30 | Pneumatus | i don't get your message :< |
| 18:32.35 | Shirik | :( |
| 18:32.44 | Shirik | It says sh: |
| 18:32.48 | Shirik | so it must be a built-in |
| 18:33.01 | Shirik | I'm not sure what shell that is because my sh doesn't do that |
| 18:33.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:33.42 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 18:33.43 | Pneumatus | alias kill="echo sh: you need to specify whom to kill" perhaps :P |
| 18:33.47 | Shirik | lol |
| 18:38.35 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy_ (n=stolenle@86.32.230.29) |
| 18:44.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Aqua (n=Aquavett@74-137-176-182.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 18:44.20 | Pneumatus | maybe its solaris |
| 18:52.22 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 18:52.23 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 18:53.17 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzelezz (n=zenzelez@95.34.238.201) |
| 18:57.50 | TopTop18 | Is there anyone that's bored? |
| 19:00.23 | Fisker | ~seen Gnarfoz |
| 19:00.27 | purl | gnarfoz is currently on #debian (3d 5h 43m 6s) #wowhead (3d 5h 43m 6s) #norganna (3d 5h 43m 6s) #wowuidev (3d 5h 43m 6s) #wowace (3d 5h 43m 6s) #curseforge (3d 5h 43m 6s) #wowwiki (3d 5h 43m 6s). Has said a total of 56 messages. Is idling for 1d 12h 31m 20s, last said: 'http://db.mmo-champion.com/q/241/test-hey-mister-wilson/ < ;D'. |
| 19:00.27 | Fisker | ~seen bleeter |
| 19:00.27 | purl | bleeter is currently on #norganna #wowuidev. Has said a total of 26 messages. Is idling for 1d 9h 45m 12s, last said: 'obama wins peace nobel http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8298580.stm'. |
| 19:00.30 | Fisker | ~seen Jerub |
| 19:00.31 | purl | jerub is currently on #wowuidev (5d 16h 18m 51s). Has said a total of 595 messages. Is idling for 12h 45m 55s, last said: 'hm, seems i need to spend some money on enchants.'. |
| 19:00.35 | Fisker | rage |
| 19:01.41 | TopTop18 | Oh noes fisker in rage! Wattch out for flying trouts |
| 19:07.19 | Cide | where are the danes? |
| 19:07.36 | foxlit | Did they lose? |
| 19:07.38 | foxlit | Did they win? |
| 19:07.46 | foxlit | Who's going to the european championships? |
| 19:07.46 | Cide | 5 min into the second half |
| 19:08.10 | Cide | I just want to know who to ridicule when we score |
| 19:08.20 | Aelobin | Fisker: ping |
| 19:08.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Liz (n=fake@nat-portal-160-94-47-16.uofm.wireless.umn.edu) |
| 19:11.27 | Lunessa | I'm so excited about having to take Fraud Awareness and Sexual Harassment Awareness training ... again. |
| 19:12.08 | Liz | Anyone here have any experience with storing functions and function calls inside a table as a value, and then calling them? not just pre-built functions from the API, but custom functions writting directly into the table... Pastey of a crappy example: www.pastey.net/126341 |
| 19:13.10 | Liz | the AP function in that pastey is the one I want to get working, but don't know how... that's like the third iteration of a guess on how to write it in... |
| 19:13.58 | foxlit | I'm surprised that compiles. |
| 19:14.00 | Arrowmaster | remove the ()'s around the function part |
| 19:14.23 | foxlit | lua> t={foo=(function blah() print("Who knew?"); end) }; |
| 19:14.23 | lua_bot | foxlit: luabot:1: '(' expected near 'blah' |
| 19:14.25 | Arrowmaster | and change "function temp()" to just "function()" |
| 19:15.18 | Arrowmaster | and for the love of god change "temp1, temp2, temp3 = UnitAttackPower("player");" to "local temp1, temp2, temp3 = UnitAttackPower("player");" |
| 19:15.18 | Liz | sec |
| 19:15.33 | Liz | lol heh |
| 19:15.41 | Liz | i *think* i tried what you're suggesting, sec |
| 19:16.31 | Arrowmaster | oh wait you are also trying to execute the temp() |
| 19:16.42 | Liz | i didn't start with temp() |
| 19:16.53 | Liz | i started with (function () code... end) |
| 19:16.57 | Liz | that doesn't do anything |
| 19:17.06 | Liz | rather, does what I described in the pastey |
| 19:17.14 | Arrowmaster | http://www.pastey.net/126342 |
| 19:17.15 | Arrowmaster | try that |
| 19:17.30 | Kaso | What happens after jaraxxis is killed/before pvp boss for alliance. On horde we get all pissed off that an alliance gnome summoned a demon lord against us, and the alliance have their feelings hurt by that. How does the story work for an alliance raid |
| 19:17.32 | Iriel | Dont you want... |
| 19:17.48 | Iriel | ["Get"] = function() return GetSpellBonusDamage(6) end |
| 19:17.49 | Iriel | ? |
| 19:17.58 | foxlit | lua> t={foo=(function blah() print("Who knew?"); end) }; |
| 19:17.58 | lua_bot | foxlit: luabot:1: '(' expected near 'blah' |
| 19:18.06 | Arrowmaster | Iriel: probably |
| 19:18.11 | Liz | nope |
| 19:18.18 | Iriel | It seems odd to handle them inconsistently |
| 19:18.26 | Liz | because that one, if i call the line listed, executes GetSpellBonusDamage(6) |
| 19:18.36 | tem | lol. The draenei quest to heal survivors with Gift of the Naaru isn't marked as a Draenei-only quest |
| 19:18.39 | Liz | i made the change you sent arrow and it still does nothing |
| 19:18.45 | Arrowmaster | Liz: no it doesnt |
| 19:18.46 | tem | the npc just happily gave it to my human |
| 19:18.50 | Liz | +tem O.o |
| 19:18.57 | tem | (and then laughed at me because I couldn't complete it) |
| 19:19.02 | Liz | lol i'm trying it inside wowlua right now |
| 19:19.03 | Arrowmaster | Tracking_Attributes.SpellPower.Get will always have the value of GetSpellBonusDamage(6) when the addon loaded |
| 19:19.12 | Liz | nope |
| 19:19.16 | Liz | well |
| 19:19.18 | Liz | hmm |
| 19:19.43 | Liz | i got it working as something else before, so i suppose you're right... how would I make it work? |
| 19:19.51 | Iriel | Do what I suggested |
| 19:20.09 | Iriel | if you're expecting 'late binding' in the sense you call Get() and it returns the value RIGHT NOW |
| 19:20.22 | Liz | let me try that |
| 19:20.27 | Arrowmaster | http://www.pastey.net/126343 |
| 19:20.29 | tem | Oh that's odd. While I was typing here, the npc moved out of range. Now he won't give me the quest |
| 19:20.33 | Liz | because i have that table in lua |
| 19:20.44 | Liz | and i'm calling it actively and it's working, updated and all |
| 19:20.58 | Iriel | Do you keep re-definning the table in wowlua? |
| 19:21.02 | tem | so it's a bug in the quest system that doesn't check you for prereqs or something when you're getting a follow up quest |
| 19:21.05 | Iriel | Because every time you define the table, it'll re-lookup the value |
| 19:21.26 | Liz | ahh that wasn't it but yeah, it will only call it on definition |
| 19:21.44 | Arrowmaster | tem: were you just offered the quest or were you able to actually accept it? |
| 19:22.20 | Liz | so i want ["Get"] = function() return GetSpellBonusDamage(6) end |
| 19:22.20 | Arrowmaster | tem: i think ive seen that bug where you get offered the quest but cant accept it |
| 19:22.27 | Iriel | yes |
| 19:22.39 | Arrowmaster | i updated your pastie look at it |
| 19:22.40 | Iriel | then you call Tracking_Attributes.SpellPower.Get() |
| 19:22.47 | tem | Arrowmaster, I didn't accept it |
| 19:22.57 | Liz | that won't return anything |
| 19:23.14 | Liz | or |
| 19:23.16 | Liz | wtf |
| 19:23.20 | Iriel | if it doesnt then you're doing it wrong |
| 19:23.22 | Arrowmaster | tem: yeah it would probably have told you it wasnt available for your race when you tried to accept it |
| 19:23.28 | tem | Arrowmaster, I tabbed over here to say "hey check this out" and when I tabbed back, the npc had walked away (out of accept range) |
| 19:23.37 | Iriel | Liz: /dump it |
| 19:23.37 | tem | now he's not offering me any quests |
| 19:23.41 | Liz | when i print, it outputs, when i don't print, it won't output for some reason, and before it was giving me errors |
| 19:23.51 | Liz | i'll try again, thanks :S |
| 19:23.55 | Liz | :D, even |
| 19:25.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Keias (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:27.48 | Liz | looks like that fix worked consistantly across the board |
| 19:27.50 | Liz | thanks! |
| 19:28.15 | Arrowmaster | http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=25226 |
| 19:28.38 | Arrowmaster | the worst part of that story is how horribly broken 'fallout trilogy' is |
| 19:29.31 | Arrowmaster | interplay stole unofficial 3rd party fan created patches to get the games to run on newer versions of windows and didnt even give then credit for it |
| 19:34.54 | Liz | Aww shoot |
| 19:35.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyn (n=zyn@h243n2-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 19:37.17 | smcn | speaking of fallout 3, anyone know if goty is going to be available on steam tuesday |
| 19:37.31 | smcn | or do i have to go to a *gag* b&m store |
| 19:39.48 | Liz | Now some of the calls used a function I defined called Round(x) to truncate their results a bit... Those functions don't seem to be working when I call them... Also, the armor function in the following pastey is having similar issues -.- www.pastey.net/126345 |
| 19:41.52 | Liz | pardon if I haven't fixed some use of "local", i'll get there |
| 19:42.02 | Arrowmaster | Liz: im going to glame wowlua here, youve probably got leftover stuff still hanging around |
| 19:42.18 | Liz | i'll reload and try again |
| 19:42.23 | jnwhiteh | Arrowmaster: why is that wowlua's fault? |
| 19:42.40 | jnwhiteh | so |
| 19:42.42 | jnwhiteh | what the fuck curse. |
| 19:42.44 | Arrowmaster | jnwhiteh: compared to having it as an addon and reloadign i mean |
| 19:42.47 | jnwhiteh | every fucking spam message is the same |
| 19:42.53 | jnwhiteh | how can you not catch them |
| 19:42.54 | jnwhiteh | *growl* |
| 19:43.01 | Pneumatus | jnwhiteh: yup, i've moaned about it several times |
| 19:43.03 | Shadowed | I don't know |
| 19:43.08 | Shadowed | but it's been going on for like a month now and it's annoying :| |
| 19:43.11 | jnwhiteh | its absolutely ridiculous. |
| 19:43.11 | Pneumatus | apparently they are too inept to filter it :< |
| 19:43.24 | jnwhiteh | i could write a damn db query to delete the damn comments |
| 19:43.24 | Pneumatus | 2/3 comments a day atm |
| 19:43.46 | Shadowed | or go by the fact that if you see a group of URLs appear within a few minutes |
| 19:43.47 | Shadowed | = spam |
| 19:44.12 | Pneumatus | banning the posting of comments with the offending URL would be a start... |
| 19:44.21 | Arrowmaster | or disable auto hyperlinking of urls like the wow forums and see them go away |
| 19:44.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110| (i=Matrix11@95.222.224.247) |
| 19:44.30 | Pneumatus | they dont hyperlink |
| 19:44.34 | Arrowmaster | oh |
| 19:44.35 | Shadowed | or captcha registration |
| 19:45.29 | Pneumatus | i've moaned to Adamar about it numerous times, who's allegedly in charge of all the curse devs |
| 19:45.50 | Shadowed | Actually why isn't registration captcha'd in the first place :< |
| 19:46.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo_ (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 19:47.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Lizz (n=fake@nat-portal-160-94-47-16.uofm.wireless.umn.edu) |
| 19:47.15 | Lizz | O.o wifi cut out -.- |
| 19:47.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 19:49.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Codayus_ (i=cody@lilly.csoft.net) |
| 19:49.46 | *** join/#wowuidev batrick_ (n=batrick@batbytes.com) |
| 19:50.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Random (n=Denial@unaffiliated/windaria) |
| 19:50.16 | *** join/#wowuidev t (i=tom@freenode/staff/tomaw) |
| 19:54.11 | Pneumatus | i might just disable comments on my curse projects and point people at wowace comment |
| 19:56.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyn (n=zyn@h243n2-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 19:57.43 | nevcairiel | i just don't look at curse comments |
| 19:57.48 | nevcairiel | sometimes they help themself |
| 19:57.58 | nevcairiel | but i did direct them to wowace in the description |
| 19:58.00 | nevcairiel | so if they care.. |
| 20:00.16 | *** join/#wowuidev tlund (i=tlund@nxs.se) |
| 20:00.48 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) |
| 20:02.05 | Lizz | Hmm, I don't have to put a declaration in for a global variable that's saved per character do I? I cleared the var in my WTF folder, and it seems to think it's recreated said variable on the next login, but the first time my code calls for it, I get an error that "attempting to index it returned a nil value" |
| 20:02.31 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 20:02.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Any saved vars MUST be globals |
| 20:03.18 | Lizz | ^^ That's what I thought, and it does seem to be saving them, but when it tries to call something from said saved variable, I get a nil... checking my spelling a couple times over to be sure now |
| 20:04.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Be sure you're trying to read it AFTER the VARIABLES_LOADED event fires |
| 20:04.15 | Lizz | ^^ was about to say, time to check that |
| 20:04.25 | foxlit | "[Perl] would prefer that you stayed out of its living room because you weren't invited, not because it has a shotgun." |
| 20:06.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (n=Gotai@ip54546435.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 20:08.27 | ScytheBlade1 | any resto druids around? |
| 20:09.30 | Lizz | <--- |
| 20:11.27 | Lunessa | foxlit: [Perl] would prefer you have his daughter home by 11, her virtue intact because it's the right thing to do, not because he is unafraid to return to prison. |
| 20:12.11 | Fisker | slaps foxlit around a bit with a large trout |
| 20:12.16 | Fisker | slaps jnwhiteh around a bit with a large trout |
| 20:14.35 | foxlit | Resto druids? I play one! |
| 20:14.53 | Lunessa | On TV? |
| 20:15.10 | foxlit | In a theater production! |
| 20:20.29 | Lizz | Hmm... If you have several FontString 'objects' and they overlap, will they just not display? or should they all display and just look, well, overlapped? |
| 20:21.34 | Lunessa | foxlit: Do you use paper-mache horns? |
| 20:22.38 | Fisker | A: After November 12, 2009, you won’t be able to log in to the game unless you merge your account with a Battle.net account. You will need to log in using your Battle.net account username (your email address) and password. |
| 20:22.41 | Fisker | FUCKING YES |
| 20:23.10 | nevcairiel | that will be a quite day on the servers |
| 20:23.14 | nevcairiel | a busy day on battle.net :p |
| 20:24.08 | Fisker | funny thing is that people will probably still manage to get compromised |
| 20:24.14 | Lizz | Anyone know how WoW handles overlapping fontstrings? |
| 20:24.24 | Lunessa | Fisker: Source? |
| 20:24.27 | Cide | by displaying them overlappingly |
| 20:24.35 | Lizz | hmm |
| 20:24.58 | *** join/#wowuidev jpmorgan (n=jpmorgan@67.183.221.120) |
| 20:25.21 | Fisker | http://www.mmo-champion.com/news-2/non-battle-net-accounts-offline-on-november-12th/ |
| 20:25.34 | Lunessa | config.wtf needs a var "MakeMyUINotLookLikeFesteringDogPoop" 1 or 0 |
| 20:25.53 | Cide | 1 disables all addons? |
| 20:26.04 | Lunessa | Cide: Yes. |
| 20:26.13 | Cide | figured as much |
| 20:26.30 | Lizz | I've got 3 strings, 5 pixels apart, stacking top to bottom, and either the top and the bottom string display text, or the middle one does (depending on text length, but not being measured, just planned in advance) |
| 20:27.00 | Lizz | for some reason it's only displaying the bottom strings when it needs 2 strings, and nothing when it needs just one |
| 20:27.01 | Lizz | :( |
| 20:28.34 | Fisker | http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=11155926750&postId=111544733219&sid=1#3 |
| 20:28.36 | Fisker | HOHOHOHOHO |
| 20:29.21 | ScytheBlade1 | WHY ARE THERE SO MANY AWESOME RESTO DRUID GLYPHS |
| 20:29.49 | foxlit | ScytheBlade1: there are? |
| 20:29.57 | Cide | not really :/ |
| 20:30.18 | Lizz | Try to cut a couple spells out of your rotation(i |
| 20:30.23 | Lizz | d base it on set bonuses) |
| 20:30.29 | Lizz | then glyphs are easier |
| 20:30.31 | foxlit | name some glyphs, we'll tell you why you're a fool for picking them. |
| 20:30.32 | ScytheBlade1 | nourish? wild growth? rejuv? innervate? swiftmend? |
| 20:30.40 | Lunessa | Fisker: You're clever, witty, and wise. Sadly you stink of fish and your wit is only appreciated in small, easily conquered, Eastern Bloc countries. |
| 20:30.43 | ScytheBlade1 | foxlit: go for it |
| 20:30.50 | foxlit | wild growth sucks. |
| 20:30.50 | Cide | innervate sucks because you're already only casting it on yourself. |
| 20:30.59 | Cide | swiftmend sucks because who needs hots really? |
| 20:31.01 | ScytheBlade1 | My mp5 sucks more than the glyph |
| 20:31.02 | foxlit | +1 target on a spell that you cast while everyone else is casting group spells. |
| 20:31.10 | Fisker | iCry Lunessa :( |
| 20:31.19 | Fisker | it's a napkin |
| 20:31.20 | Lizz | <3 swiftmend, but if you never use it, don't get it |
| 20:31.20 | Fisker | but it's white |
| 20:31.25 | foxlit | They'll get healed anyway, and it's situational. |
| 20:31.27 | ScytheBlade1 | self buffed, 265 mp5 regen in combat |
| 20:31.29 | Fisker | and it blows up every now and then |
| 20:31.55 | foxlit | rejuv sucks because your targets usually aren't below 50% hp |
| 20:32.03 | ScytheBlade1 | That is true |
| 20:32.17 | ScytheBlade1 | But I'm seriously debating rejuv for the 10 ToGC I run |
| 20:32.28 | ScytheBlade1 | Where the other healers are.. not the most responsive people I know |
| 20:32.35 | foxlit | Nourish isn't bad, but it's very infrequently what you're actually casting. |
| 20:32.39 | ScytheBlade1 | They're not bad but they don't excel either |
| 20:32.40 | ScytheBlade1 | What? |
| 20:32.50 | ScytheBlade1 | I wind up chain casting nourish in ToGC10 |
| 20:32.59 | foxlit | If you're healing a particular target, sure. |
| 20:33.04 | ScytheBlade1 | The tanks! |
| 20:33.05 | foxlit | But people usually get paladins for that. |
| 20:33.09 | ScytheBlade1 | We have no healadins |
| 20:33.15 | Lizz | nourish == awesome for single target, kinda worthless when you're on raid heals |
| 20:33.21 | foxlit | Then yeah, it's fine. |
| 20:33.29 | foxlit | I run with Nourish, Swiftmend, Regrowth. |
| 20:33.37 | ScytheBlade1 | err |
| 20:33.40 | ScytheBlade1 | regrowth? |
| 20:33.46 | ScytheBlade1 | You're terrible |
| 20:33.49 | foxlit | +20% healing if you recast regrowth while its hot is up. |
| 20:34.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Which is better spent on nourish |
| 20:34.04 | Lizz | ^^ that's awesome with some of the newer set bonuses imo |
| 20:34.28 | foxlit | ScytheBlade1: I already have the nourish glyph. |
| 20:34.55 | ScytheBlade1 | nourish = faster cast less mana stronger heal than regrowth |
| 20:34.55 | ScytheBlade1 | Right, but still |
| 20:35.03 | ScytheBlade1 | The only time you should ever really be casting regrowth is to put the HoT up |
| 20:35.26 | ScytheBlade1 | In every other situation, nourish is probably the better spell to cast |
| 20:35.41 | Lizz | Are you running with 4T7? |
| 20:35.53 | ScytheBlade1 | No set bonuses at all atm |
| 20:35.57 | ScytheBlade1 | My gear is terrible |
| 20:36.09 | Lizz | 'cause once I lost that I stopped using nourish *as much*, it's a really noticable difference and the spell just felt weaker without it |
| 20:36.25 | Lizz | again, only vaiable for healing 1-2 targets at once |
| 20:36.27 | Lizz | imo |
| 20:36.36 | ScytheBlade1 | That's all I ever really heal |
| 20:36.38 | ScytheBlade1 | The tanks |
| 20:36.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Well that isn't true |
| 20:36.44 | foxlit | ScytheBlade1: even if all of that is true, it's kind of irrelevant :) |
| 20:36.56 | ScytheBlade1 | But probably 70%+ of my healing is done on the tanks |
| 20:36.58 | ScytheBlade1 | foxlit: how? |
| 20:37.03 | foxlit | Because the competition isn't between nourish and regrowth -- it's between regrowth and whichever other glyph you pick that isn't nourish/swiftmend. |
| 20:37.37 | ScytheBlade1 | even glyphed, regrowth isn't anything compared to nourish |
| 20:37.44 | ScytheBlade1 | it shouldn't even be conisdered as an option for a glyph |
| 20:37.53 | ScytheBlade1 | -terrible- ! |
| 20:37.56 | foxlit | What would you replace it with? |
| 20:38.04 | foxlit | You *are* still casting Regrowth. |
| 20:38.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Anything else |
| 20:38.08 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, sure |
| 20:38.12 | ScytheBlade1 | To put the HoT up |
| 20:38.20 | foxlit | Which is the behavior this glyph supports. |
| 20:38.28 | ScytheBlade1 | Rephrase |
| 20:38.38 | ScytheBlade1 | I cast it to 1) put the HoT up 2) ... put it up again |
| 20:38.39 | foxlit | It encourages you to recast regrowth. |
| 20:38.55 | ScytheBlade1 | If the tank is taking heavy damage, you should probably (*cough*) be casting nourish instead |
| 20:38.58 | foxlit | Time it right, and you get a 20% for free. |
| 20:39.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Not regrowth |
| 20:39.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Sure, -if- the target needs it |
| 20:39.17 | ScytheBlade1 | And -if- the target needs it |
| 20:39.22 | ScytheBlade1 | You should be casting nourish |
| 20:39.37 | ScytheBlade1 | (Unless I'm missing something really obvious) |
| 20:39.46 | TC-Away | throws a keyboard at Fisker |
| 20:40.04 | foxlit | Most of my time isn't spent nourish-spamming the tank. |
| 20:40.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Fair enough |
| 20:40.25 | foxlit | Obviously, if you wanted single target throughput, you'd spam nourish. |
| 20:40.44 | foxlit | I'd argue that the regrowth glyph still benefits you more than Rejuv/Innervate in that scenario. |
| 20:41.24 | ScytheBlade1 | I primarily heal with a disc priest and a resto shaman |
| 20:41.30 | foxlit | You'd have to refresh regrowth for nourish's sake anyway, and you might as well get a bonus when you do that. |
| 20:41.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Likewise, nourish being the really strong heal that it is, I wind up doing that very very often |
| 20:42.04 | ScytheBlade1 | So yeah, granted |
| 20:42.04 | foxlit | Rejuv would not do anything most of the time, and Innervate sounded pathetic the last time I looked at it (plus normal regen lets me get by on most fights). |
| 20:42.23 | ScytheBlade1 | 2200 mana iirc |
| 20:44.14 | ScytheBlade1 | I spec 14 points balance expressely so I can get the 20% faster cast on crit talent |
| 20:44.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Just so I can keep the tanks up |
| 20:44.30 | ScytheBlade1 | (Because the other healers.. it is a trick for them) |
| 20:45.10 | foxlit | Mm, I saw that spec at some point. |
| 20:45.37 | ScytheBlade1 | It gives me.. a 1.096s cast time on nourish |
| 20:45.47 | foxlit | And around ~50% crit rate. |
| 20:45.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Which has a ~66% crit rate |
| 20:45.49 | NightHawkTheSane | a disc priest and a resto shaman have issues healing a tank? o_0 |
| 20:45.58 | ScytheBlade1 | well, I'm at 13.10% + 50% talent |
| 20:46.03 | ScytheBlade1 | + buffs |
| 20:46.10 | foxlit | The talent is 25 |
| 20:46.15 | ScytheBlade1 | It is? |
| 20:46.16 | ScytheBlade1 | wtf |
| 20:46.24 | ScytheBlade1 | So it is |
| 20:46.33 | foxlit | They nerfed it when they added nourish to it |
| 20:46.44 | ScytheBlade1 | NightHawkTheSane: people like to stand in fire. They are sometimes very busy :) |
| 20:46.50 | ScytheBlade1 | foxlit: ah k |
| 20:47.40 | NightHawkTheSane | ScytheBlade1: fail. :P |
| 20:47.53 | ScytheBlade1 | It hurts me sometimes |
| 20:48.02 | ScytheBlade1 | And I don't mean as in my character dying |
| 20:48.04 | ScytheBlade1 | I mean irl pain |
| 20:48.15 | foxlit | But anyway, I recall seing math that said nourish is about as efficient as regrowth when stars and tier bonuses align for it. |
| 20:48.26 | foxlit | (mana-wise, that is) |
| 20:48.41 | foxlit | But Empowered Touch changed since then, so it might as well be junk |
| 20:48.48 | ScytheBlade1 | That shaman in specific. He tends to get his cast off before moving out of the fire.. that applies a stacking debuff |
| 20:49.02 | ScytheBlade1 | So every time he gets fire flung at him, he gets at /least/ 2 more stacks |
| 20:49.22 | NightHawkTheSane | l2 riptide & run |
| 20:49.38 | ScytheBlade1 | He just makes my life hard |
| 20:50.11 | ScytheBlade1 | It might be lag, but mostly I just think it is bad |
| 20:51.07 | foxlit | kick him, get another shaman. |
| 20:51.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah not an option |
| 20:51.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Sadly |
| 20:52.21 | NightHawkTheSane | are you horde? :P |
| 20:52.25 | ScytheBlade1 | No |
| 20:52.33 | NightHawkTheSane | oh, well to hell wiith you then :P |
| 20:52.34 | ScytheBlade1 | And even then that is unrelated |
| 20:52.36 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 20:52.37 | NightHawkTheSane | <-- another shaman :P |
| 20:52.41 | ScytheBlade1 | haha |
| 20:53.09 | ScytheBlade1 | To be honest, I'm rebating between wild growth and rejuv (glyphs) |
| 20:53.21 | ScytheBlade1 | The tanks spend a scary amount of time <50%. |
| 20:53.38 | jpmorgan | we hate that too |
| 20:53.45 | ScytheBlade1 | The melee would really appreciate both glyphs too |
| 20:55.01 | foxlit | http://www.wowpopular.com/Druid/Raid/Restoration |
| 20:56.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Interesting, but considering the number of rogues I see single-wielding axes, I don't know if "popular" is what I want to shoot for ;) |
| 20:56.34 | mikma | ~5d1 |
| 20:56.40 | mikma | ~1d5 |
| 20:56.42 | mikma | hmm |
| 20:56.44 | mikma | ~1d6 |
| 20:56.45 | purl | You roll a 6 |
| 20:57.30 | Aelobin | anyone else had that problem with trying to log into curse to post comments? |
| 20:57.41 | Aelobin | had it for several weeks/months now, but could never be bothered to figure out why it was happening |
| 20:57.41 | Cide | not the spam bots, at least |
| 20:57.44 | ScytheBlade1 | lua> 3496*0.45 |
| 20:57.45 | lua_bot | ScytheBlade1: 1573.2 |
| 20:59.10 | foxlit | ScytheBlade1: yeah, the nourish glyph being all the way down is interesting |
| 20:59.27 | ScytheBlade1 | very |
| 21:00.52 | foxlit | I suppose not a lot of druids get assigned to tanks. |
| 21:01.18 | NightHawkTheSane | it doesn't seem the intuitive thing to do |
| 21:01.27 | ScytheBlade1 | according to this site, the most popular mage spec is frostfire |
| 21:01.34 | ScytheBlade1 | which is broken in terms of raid DPS |
| 21:02.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 21:02.36 | Thunder_Child | not when my mage is rading :( |
| 21:02.49 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 21:02.51 | ScytheBlade1 | Then gear up ;) |
| 21:03.05 | Thunder_Child | i am, i have to much crit and not enough haste |
| 21:03.43 | Thunder_Child | i kinda went overboard on crit when i was gearing up |
| 21:04.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Nargiddley (n=nargiddl@125-239-8-208.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 21:04.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Everything I've ever seen shows crit as more effective than haste |
| 21:04.38 | *** join/#wowuidev laeg (n=laeg@unaffiliated/laeg) |
| 21:04.48 | laeg | is there a mod that will let you check hc boss tacs in game? |
| 21:05.50 | foxlit | A random sampling of http://www.wowhead.com/?profiles&filter=cl=11;minle=80;cr=2:7;crs=1:1;crv=2950:45 shows that there's virtually no consensus on which glyphs to pick. |
| 21:06.12 | foxlit | Which brings me to the nagging conclusion that blizzard actually accomplished their goals. |
| 21:06.24 | NightHawkTheSane | those bastards |
| 21:06.24 | ScytheBlade1 | heh |
| 21:06.28 | ScytheBlade1 | That's what I was thinking as well |
| 21:06.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Hence my initial comment |
| 21:06.41 | ScytheBlade1 | 16:28 < ScytheBlade1> WHY ARE THERE SO MANY AWESOME RESTO DRUID GLYPHS |
| 21:07.14 | foxlit | s/awesome/mediocre/ :) |
| 21:07.29 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 21:07.31 | ScytheBlade1 | Phrase it as you will ;) |
| 21:07.38 | foxlit | But obviously, their awesomeness/mediocrity depends on your playstyle. |
| 21:07.43 | foxlit | Which is good, really. |
| 21:07.49 | NightHawkTheSane | if they're all more or less the same, the distinction is pretty meaningless |
| 21:10.03 | ScytheBlade1 | For mages (fire at least) it is pretty clear cut which glyphs to get |
| 21:10.06 | tem | ScytheBlade1, I go with Nourish, Swiftmend and my last slot floats between a few glyphs |
| 21:10.15 | ScytheBlade1 | But I'm still having a heck of a time with this last resto glyph slot |
| 21:10.16 | tem | Innervate if I feel like being a mana whore |
| 21:10.22 | tem | Wild Growth |
| 21:10.27 | ScytheBlade1 | That's what I have now, innervate |
| 21:10.29 | tem | if I'm mostly on raid healing |
| 21:10.58 | tem | and I'm tempted to play with rejuv |
| 21:11.00 | tem | but I ahven't |
| 21:11.04 | ScytheBlade1 | wild growth is looking like it may take innervate's place |
| 21:11.09 | ScytheBlade1 | but I'm split between that adn rejuv |
| 21:11.10 | ScytheBlade1 | =[ |
| 21:11.16 | foxlit | Slot rejuv in, run recount through a raid |
| 21:11.16 | ScytheBlade1 | *and |
| 21:11.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Tempting |
| 21:11.26 | tem | the rejuv glyph is just not that attractive to me |
| 21:11.35 | foxlit | See if you're underwhelmed by the amount of healing you win there. |
| 21:11.42 | tem | the NEW one that lets it tick faster seems like it could be awesome/terrible |
| 21:11.57 | ScytheBlade1 | hrm, link? |
| 21:12.01 | foxlit | does not have nearly enough haste |
| 21:12.10 | foxlit | tem: does that exist yet, even on the PTR? |
| 21:12.18 | tem | don't think so |
| 21:12.28 | tem | it was just mentioned in a blue post |
| 21:12.49 | foxlit | ScytheBlade1: they're just thinking about making dots/hots scale with haste, potentially using glyphs |
| 21:13.01 | Adys | which is stupid |
| 21:13.17 | Adys | "fixing" spells with glyphs is really annoying |
| 21:13.18 | tem | I wish the scaling with haste allowed an extra tic |
| 21:13.23 | tem | k |
| 21:13.34 | ScytheBlade1 | hm |
| 21:13.35 | tem | I really don't want to have to refresh rejuv more frequently |
| 21:13.40 | ScytheBlade1 | That would be stupid indeed |
| 21:13.42 | tem | it's already losing a tick |
| 21:13.49 | Adys | as a fire mage I *need* glyph of living bomb in order to do decent dps |
| 21:13.56 | Adys | that lets living bomb dot crits |
| 21:14.11 | ScytheBlade1 | yeah, LB glyph is incredible. |
| 21:14.22 | tem | because blizzard is like "lol we accidently buffed it by giving it another tick. we're taking that away, enjoy" |
| 21:14.24 | Adys | if lb didnt need that glyph, even if it meant it had to do less damage, it would still scale decently with my gear |
| 21:14.25 | foxlit | Adys: in this case, the haste on hots mechanic could be counterproductive, so making it a choice makes sense. |
| 21:14.51 | Adys | and i wouldnt feel like im wasting a glyph spot |
| 21:14.59 | Adys | foxlit: you got a point for HoTs |
| 21:15.10 | Adys | but dots don't fall in that |
| 21:16.46 | foxlit | Adys: I agree with your comments on LB as well; perhaps they ran out of glyph ideas and decided to stuff filler in there. |
| 21:17.32 | Adys | its like talents |
| 21:17.41 | Adys | there's this really awesomecool talent you want |
| 21:18.02 | Adys | but you cant get it because you have to get boring necessary talents for your spec |
| 21:18.18 | Adys | eg I have to say no to blast wave and dragon's breath in my raiding build |
| 21:18.54 | Adys | because otherwise I wouldn't get enough talent points to have full +3% hit on frostfire |
| 21:19.21 | Adys | this is supposedly fixed in cataclysm, I hope they'll do the same for glyphs |
| 21:19.56 | foxlit | "I have to take X because it's awesome, but I really want Y." |
| 21:20.26 | Adys | no, "I have to take X because it's needed, but I want Y because its awesome" |
| 21:20.29 | Aelobin | is it possible to log out of curse.com? :S |
| 21:20.39 | Adys | Aelobin: reinstall your browser |
| 21:20.42 | kd3 | delete your cookies |
| 21:20.53 | Adys | buy a new computer |
| 21:20.55 | Aelobin | is that seriously the only way? :/ |
| 21:20.57 | Aelobin | lol |
| 21:21.10 | Adys | MOVE TO AUSTRALIA! |
| 21:21.35 | foxlit | Adys: it's needed because it provides a substantial benefit. |
| 21:21.45 | foxlit | The only way this can work out is if all glyphs are mediocre :) |
| 21:21.55 | foxlit | or no glyphs are mediocre. |
| 21:22.19 | foxlit | Ah well. Tea-time! |
| 21:22.22 | foxlit | vanishes. |
| 21:22.56 | NightHawkTheSane | i want tea.... |
| 21:23.06 | NightHawkTheSane | wait, i have tea. |
| 21:23.09 | NightHawkTheSane | goes |
| 21:23.13 | Adys | [00:21:31] <foxlit> The only way this can work out is if all glyphs are mediocre :) |
| 21:23.14 | Adys | more of an "if all glyphs are equal" |
| 21:23.37 | Adys | what's boring is when filler stuff is required |
| 21:23.54 | Adys | 5% crit on fireball but dot removed |
| 21:23.59 | Adys | that's pure filler |
| 21:24.30 | ScytheBlade1 | No it isn't |
| 21:24.31 | Adys | and no sane firemage would raid without it |
| 21:24.32 | ScytheBlade1 | That's pure awesome |
| 21:24.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Exactly |
| 21:24.57 | Lunessa | It's a godsend when there are bosses with aggro dumps. |
| 21:25.31 | Adys | I don't always want to have different glyphs than everyone else just to have different glyphs |
| 21:25.43 | Adys | but id like it if, if there were required glyphs, they werent "filler glyphs" |
| 21:26.19 | NightHawkTheSane | i'm pretty unclear as to what you call 'filler' |
| 21:27.46 | Adys | x% crit, x% hit, this_spell_has_been_fixed-glyphs |
| 21:27.59 | ScytheBlade1 | So, WWS is terrible now |
| 21:29.11 | Cide | it's on my ever-increasing list of things to redo and do right |
| 21:29.22 | Adys | worldoflogs? |
| 21:29.27 | jpmorgan | cide from tankspot? |
| 21:29.36 | Cide | cide from www.ctmod.net |
| 21:29.41 | ScytheBlade1 | This guild already exists, and the "officers" are not here |
| 21:29.41 | Cide | the one and only? I think so |
| 21:29.56 | jpmorgan | just curious |
| 21:29.57 | Thunder_Child | *snicker* @ Cide |
| 21:30.03 | NightHawkTheSane | Adys: er... so any glyph that makes your spells better is filler? |
| 21:30.10 | NightHawkTheSane | ScytheBlade1: wws has always beeen kinda bad |
| 21:30.13 | Adys | no? |
| 21:30.16 | ScytheBlade1 | NightHawkTheSane: true |
| 21:30.23 | Adys | anything that "fixes your spell" is filler |
| 21:31.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyn (n=zyn@h243n2-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 21:31.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Nargiddley (n=nargiddl@125-239-8-208.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 21:31.08 | NightHawkTheSane | i hardly think fireball is broken without the 5% crit from its glyph |
| 21:31.23 | Adys | it us |
| 21:31.25 | Adys | it is |
| 21:31.36 | Adys | because you need that glyph if you're a raiding/pvping fire mage |
| 21:31.47 | NightHawkTheSane | thats doesn't make it broken |
| 21:31.49 | Adys | because its too powerful |
| 21:31.55 | Adys | it makes it boring |
| 21:32.03 | Adys | who the hell cares about more crit/hit/dmg |
| 21:32.11 | Adys | thats stuff you get on gear |
| 21:32.14 | NightHawkTheSane | raiders? |
| 21:32.20 | ScytheBlade1 | <-- |
| 21:32.35 | Adys | i dont mean "cares" in that way |
| 21:32.43 | Adys | take glyph of evoc |
| 21:32.48 | Adys | it adds something to the spell |
| 21:32.54 | Adys | it gives it another use |
| 21:33.03 | NightHawkTheSane | if glyphs didn't increase your damage, a non-insignifiant portion of the community would ask for them to |
| 21:33.29 | Adys | they could have made an evocation glyph that "makes evoc regen 90% instead of 60%" |
| 21:33.41 | Adys | but they didnt, they made it different and original |
| 21:34.06 | laeg | is there a mod that will let you check hc boss tacs in game? |
| 21:34.34 | NightHawkTheSane | you're kind of avoiding the fact that when it comes down to it, glyphs well pretty much always be ranked in terms of how much they contribute to your primary role |
| 21:34.53 | Adys | yeah |
| 21:34.55 | Cide | laeg: I sure hope not |
| 21:34.59 | Adys | but glyphs are like talents |
| 21:35.00 | Adys | they're fun |
| 21:35.03 | NightHawkTheSane | so if even one glyph provides any kind of dps increase, then there have to be enough glyphs for everyone to get the same effective increase |
| 21:35.23 | Adys | make it provide a dps increase by not increasing dmg/hit/crit then |
| 21:35.38 | Adys | for example |
| 21:35.38 | Cide | dps = dmg/time |
| 21:35.43 | Adys | yes Cide |
| 21:35.48 | Cide | to increase dps, you either increase damage done, or decrease time spent not dpsing |
| 21:36.02 | Adys | yes, and you can do that without providing dmg/hit/crit |
| 21:36.11 | Cide | by reducing time spent not dpsing |
| 21:36.16 | Adys | or haste |
| 21:36.21 | Cide | that's a dps increase |
| 21:36.22 | Adys | or any stat |
| 21:36.28 | NightHawkTheSane | Adys: i think you're just asking a bit much out of the system. not -every- glyph can be an amazing and unique snowflake |
| 21:36.38 | Adys | then there needs to be less glyphs. |
| 21:36.52 | NightHawkTheSane | that wouldnt really solve anything |
| 21:37.01 | Adys | it would |
| 21:37.02 | laeg | Cide: lol why not? |
| 21:37.12 | Adys | if glyph of fireball didnt exist, I could use glyph of evoc |
| 21:37.18 | *** join/#wowuidev TopTop18 (n=TopTop18@ip231-37-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 21:37.24 | Adys | and heal myself in raids instead of relying on the healers |
| 21:37.25 | Adys | but i cant |
| 21:37.33 | Adys | because right now if i do that i drop an insane 5% crit |
| 21:37.48 | NightHawkTheSane | so you dont really want less glyphs. you just don't want glyphs to increase your dps :P |
| 21:37.57 | Adys | again... |
| 21:38.06 | Adys | you can increase dps without increasing stats |
| 21:38.53 | Adys | example: Glyph of Brain Freeze |
| 21:38.57 | NightHawkTheSane | so you're okay having 3 required glyphs, that you MUST Have, as long it's not just 5% crit? thats seems odd |
| 21:39.15 | NightHawkTheSane | i mean, i'll gladly admit 5% crit is not exactly exciting |
| 21:39.17 | Adys | "Your brain freeze talent sometimes sends an additional fireball to the target" |
| 21:39.29 | Adys | yes exactly night |
| 21:40.08 | Adys | additionally, when dps increases are more obscure |
| 21:40.17 | Adys | you have more chances of people picking another glyph instead |
| 21:40.28 | NightHawkTheSane | *shrug* don't take this the wrong way, because I agree with you that more 'unique' glyphs might be interseting, but that's a pretty fluffy complaint |
| 21:40.51 | NightHawkTheSane | nah, there's enough people who theorycraft to figure out the exact numbers. |
| 21:41.08 | Adys | Glyph of Living Bomb, Your living bomb explosion deals double damage to the 3 closest targets |
| 21:41.14 | NightHawkTheSane | and then you get into the same game we have with stuff like Armor pen. the people who can decphier the complex math can get ahead, and everyone who can't is very confused |
| 21:41.30 | Adys | that would double the LB explosion tick on the target, making it good even for singletarget bosses |
| 21:41.30 | Adys | BUT |
| 21:41.34 | Adys | it wouldn't make it boring |
| 21:41.51 | NightHawkTheSane | boring is also a relative term. :P |
| 21:42.06 | Adys | since 3.0, dots scale with haste |
| 21:42.10 | Adys | since 3.0, dots scale with crit |
| 21:42.26 | Adys | why doesn't LB scale with haste/crit? idunno. |
| 21:42.28 | NightHawkTheSane | frankly, its either boring in that 'i dont have to change anything about what i do', or boring in that 'i cant use it because it'll break cc' :P |
| 21:42.32 | NightHawkTheSane | (at least to me) |
| 21:42.32 | Adys | why does it have to be a GLYPH to do that? |
| 21:42.57 | NightHawkTheSane | because the designers said so? |
| 21:43.05 | Codayus_ | Why not be a glyph? |
| 21:43.07 | Adys | it feels stupid |
| 21:43.12 | Lunessa | Adys we could go back to not having glyphs. |
| 21:43.24 | Adys | we could go back to the MINDSET yes |
| 21:43.25 | NightHawkTheSane | like you said, if it were base/talented, it'd do less damage, and you'd have a glypht of lb that said "your living bomb does 10% more damage" |
| 21:43.27 | Adys | you know |
| 21:43.35 | Adys | when "fixing a broken spell" meant "fixing a broken spell" |
| 21:43.41 | Adys | and not "making it into a glyph" |
| 21:43.45 | Codayus_ | For a change that they don't want to roll out universally, their options seem to be... glyph, set bonus, or some sort of weird "talk to an NPC to toggle this behaviour" functionality. |
| 21:43.58 | NightHawkTheSane | your definition of broken is very strange :P |
| 21:43.59 | Lunessa | How is fireball broken? It's not. |
| 21:44.13 | Adys | Lunessa: its broken without the glyph if you're a fire mage |
| 21:44.15 | cbreak | blizard wands that things are where they want it including all glyphs, buffs and so on |
| 21:44.16 | NightHawkTheSane | living bomb not being able to crit unglyphed is not broken. |
| 21:44.16 | Adys | try to raid without this |
| 21:44.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Fireball is broken because the DoT won't ever be used for more than a tick |
| 21:44.23 | Adys | NightHawkTheSane: it is |
| 21:44.25 | cbreak | how they are without them is not as relevant |
| 21:44.39 | Adys | NightHawkTheSane: dots are supposed to be able to crit |
| 21:44.42 | Adys | thats all |
| 21:44.50 | NightHawkTheSane | Adys: no, it isn't. like cbreak said, only after all buffs/talents/glyphs are considered does it matter |
| 21:45.00 | NightHawkTheSane | Adys: thats not a system-wide rule. |
| 21:45.14 | Adys | it bloody is |
| 21:45.16 | NightHawkTheSane | not EVERY dot crits |
| 21:45.27 | cbreak | it would be nice if ignite could crit |
| 21:45.28 | Adys | living bomb doesn't scale with anything except spell power |
| 21:45.39 | Codayus_ | Adys: Lots of dots don't crit. |
| 21:45.55 | NightHawkTheSane | so? mages aren't the ONLY class with a spell that doesn't scale with some stats |
| 21:46.01 | Adys | Codayus_: making a glyph that "fixes them" is not an excuse |
| 21:46.03 | Lunessa | Adys: What you really want is the same thing the Dev team was talking about for Talents at BlizzCon - You want Glyphs to add "Cool Factor" or "Fun Factor" and not Damage. |
| 21:46.11 | Adys | NightHawkTheSane: as a fire mage, once again |
| 21:46.23 | Adys | i have TWO SPELLS |
| 21:46.37 | Adys | and one of them doesn't scale with TWO of my three only stats |
| 21:46.48 | NightHawkTheSane | er.. 3? fb, lb, pyro? |
| 21:46.49 | Lunessa | try playing an elemental shaman. |
| 21:46.55 | NightHawkTheSane | four if you have to scorch |
| 21:47.02 | Adys | kay pyro too |
| 21:47.10 | Adys | i never scorch |
| 21:47.12 | cbreak | frost mages have one spell only |
| 21:47.13 | Adys | you know why? |
| 21:47.20 | Adys | because i need the glyph for that |
| 21:47.20 | NightHawkTheSane | YOU never scorch, that does not apply to all mages. |
| 21:47.23 | Lunessa | LB, CL, LB, BL, Flame Shock, Lava Burst... rinse, repeat. |
| 21:47.32 | NightHawkTheSane | cbreak: eh, frost mages can't really enter a raiding discussion :P |
| 21:47.38 | cbreak | why not? |
| 21:47.42 | Adys | because they dont |
| 21:47.47 | Adys | they dont since tbc |
| 21:47.48 | cbreak | I did extremely well back in Molten core |
| 21:47.53 | Lunessa | Frost DPS is lol Ice Bolt |
| 21:47.54 | Adys | so did i |
| 21:48.01 | Adys | i played a frost mage for 4 years |
| 21:48.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Tepel (n=Tepel@cc624207-a.gorre1.fr.home.nl) |
| 21:48.14 | Adys | and i can tell you its frustrating being refused to a raid because your dps is too low |
| 21:48.17 | cbreak | just because blizard screwed up and failed, doesn't mean we have to give up |
| 21:48.20 | Adys | and you cant do ANYTHING about it except respec to something you dont like |
| 21:48.29 | cbreak | I like arcane nowadays |
| 21:48.38 | cbreak | but still, I want frost to rock again |
| 21:48.40 | NightHawkTheSane | cbreak: i'm not saying they have to give up, but facts are facts. frost mages don't do competetive raid dps. |
| 21:48.45 | Codayus_ | Mmm, I think both our main raiding mages have gone arcane these days. |
| 21:49.00 | Adys | we have nine mages in the guild |
| 21:49.05 | Adys | 7 of them are fire |
| 21:49.13 | Adys | er |
| 21:49.14 | Adys | arcane |
| 21:49.17 | Adys | ichtyor and i are the only ones who are fire |
| 21:50.09 | Adys | all of this glyph stuff is insanely frustrating |
| 21:50.26 | Adys | i spend half my time scorching if the other fire mage is not in the raid because he has glyph of imp scorch and i dont |
| 21:50.33 | NightHawkTheSane | i dont remember arcane mages having very 'interesting' glyphs.. :P |
| 21:50.38 | Bruners | what is the AV queue below 80? 70->79 ? |
| 21:50.44 | NightHawkTheSane | Bruners: yes |
| 21:50.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraftman (n=Chris@cpc1-cwma7-2-0-cust280.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 21:51.02 | cbreak | we have glyphs? |
| 21:51.02 | Codayus_ | Adys: Why not reglyph? |
| 21:51.08 | cbreak | I like glyph of frost ward |
| 21:51.12 | cbreak | but that's not really arcane |
| 21:51.14 | Codayus_ | Glyphs are a consumable, IMHO. |
| 21:51.20 | Adys | Codayus_: because then I'd lose dps |
| 21:51.38 | Codayus_ | You don't lose DPS scorching without the glyph when your other fire mage isn't in the raid? |
| 21:51.44 | NightHawkTheSane | cbreak: arcane blast.. arcane power, and i think molten armor are the three raiding glyphs? at least they were a few months ago i could be way off now |
| 21:51.50 | Adys | except hes in most raids |
| 21:51.53 | *** join/#wowuidev BWMerlin (n=chatzill@58.174.148.250) |
| 21:51.59 | cbreak | hmm. maybe. |
| 21:52.02 | cbreak | I didn't touch them since I went arcane |
| 21:52.08 | cbreak | somehow forgot about what I have |
| 21:52.18 | Codayus_ | Why not reglyph whenever he isn't? That at least removed that issue. |
| 21:52.27 | cbreak | but frost ward is nice together with incanter's absorbtion and frost warding |
| 21:52.55 | Adys | because glyph of lb/scorch goes for 40g piece on my server and thats more than i pay for a flask |
| 21:52.55 | Adys | and |
| 21:52.55 | Adys | we're not a hardcore guild |
| 21:53.07 | NightHawkTheSane | no one that can craft it? |
| 21:53.08 | Adys | if i still were in one I'd probably do that |
| 21:53.09 | Lunessa | brb, speccing for awesome, glyphing for win. |
| 21:53.22 | Adys | except if I still were in one, I would be arcane because fire dps is slowly breaking down |
| 21:53.25 | Codayus_ | Adys: Um, your doing it wrong. The mat cost of the glyph is ~1.5g. Find a scribe in your guild and get a couple stacks made. :) |
| 21:53.35 | Codayus_ | Don't pay retail. |
| 21:54.29 | Codayus_ | (Holy priests often carry stacks of some of their key glyphs around and change them for different boss fights because they have > 3 "required" major glyphs. Or they do in serious raid guilds; if you aren't in one, why care?) |
| 21:55.03 | Adys | i care because i shouldnt have to do this stuff |
| 21:55.12 | Adys | other dps classes dont have to, why do I? |
| 21:55.20 | cbreak | I have to respec every time I enter a raid... :/ |
| 21:55.28 | cbreak | or would have if I didn't have dual spec |
| 21:55.35 | cbreak | (it's great :) |
| 21:55.49 | cbreak | you could have a second spec with different glyphs |
| 21:55.56 | Adys | thats what i haven |
| 21:55.58 | Adys | -n |
| 21:56.03 | Adys | http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Bloodhoof&n=Adys&group=2 |
| 21:56.12 | NightHawkTheSane | other dps classes dont have to do what? |
| 21:56.21 | Adys | reglyph in the middle of a raid |
| 21:56.40 | Adys | and screw other dps classes |
| 21:56.41 | Adys | arcane mages dont have to do that |
| 21:56.44 | NightHawkTheSane | oh, wah wah :P |
| 21:56.48 | Adys | why would fire mages have to |
| 21:57.12 | Adys | NightHawkTheSane: I dont complain "just to complain". its frustrating to be cornered like that by other classes/specs |
| 21:57.19 | Adys | and end up not being able to play the spec you want |
| 21:57.22 | Adys | I hate fire/arc |
| 21:57.30 | Adys | i hate fire, i sort of like frostfire |
| 21:57.45 | Adys | my spec for four years was frost and i cant wait for the day Ill respec that |
| 21:57.56 | Adys | right now Im not able to do that because if I do, I cant even join a fucking voa pug |
| 21:58.24 | Adys | the only other spec I like playing STILL does less dps than the two other ones |
| 21:59.19 | Adys | till you have to endure what it is to absolutely have to play something you hate just because it triples your dps in a very faceroll way... dont fucking say "wah wah" |
| 21:59.52 | Cide | given that you hate the spec you're probably not a very objective person to comment on its glyphs :) |
| 22:00.06 | tem | Adys, I feel your pain wrt having to play a spec you hate |
| 22:00.08 | Adys | why not? |
| 22:00.12 | tem | Blood is a fucking terrible tree |
| 22:00.19 | NightHawkTheSane | to that, i won't. it sucks. but you're not going to find a lot of sympathy from me :\ |
| 22:00.30 | tem | but it's hands down better than frost/unholy for tanking |
| 22:00.44 | Adys | glyphs are just talents |
| 22:00.55 | NightHawkTheSane | It's a damn shame that your personal favorite spec isn't optimal for what you want to do, but its not as if it was intentional. *shrug* get over it :P |
| 22:00.59 | Adys | Im not sure why exactly there is a separation at all |
| 22:01.12 | Adys | its talents you can buy at the AH |
| 22:01.25 | Adys | and the only excuse to have scribes in the game |
| 22:02.18 | Adys | also NHTS, something that hasn't been fixed in over 2 years to me is gone to the trash can |
| 22:02.28 | Adys | frost has been broken since tbc |
| 22:02.58 | Adys | at least in wotlk its half decent in pvp |
| 22:03.02 | Adys | it wasnt even that before |
| 22:03.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Zev (n=Na@ip68-226-28-173.tc.ph.cox.net) |
| 22:03.48 | Codayus_ | *shrug* Plenty of classes had entire trees useless for entire expansions. That doesn't make frost mages a special and unique flower. |
| 22:04.05 | Adys | no |
| 22:04.26 | Adys | no other class, in game, not a single other spec, has ever, ever had an entire tree useless for two expansions in a row |
| 22:04.36 | Adys | frost mage is the only spec |
| 22:04.49 | NightHawkTheSane | wanders off to finish leveling his dk. |
| 22:04.56 | NightHawkTheSane | when you're over your martry complex, let me know ;) |
| 22:04.59 | Codayus_ | Adys: Bzzt, wrong. If you mean for PvE, anyhow. :) |
| 22:05.31 | NightHawkTheSane | martyr* man this keyboard is a pain to type on |
| 22:05.39 | Adys | Codayus_: I mean for both pvp and pve; frost has gone back useful in pvp for two patches |
| 22:05.49 | tem | Adys, Frost is THE pvp tree |
| 22:05.51 | Adys | in 3.3 it's over unless they drastically change things |
| 22:06.05 | Adys | tem: frost doesn't scale |
| 22:06.08 | Codayus_ | So...your saying that frost HASN'T been useless for two expansions in a row? |
| 22:06.14 | Adys | Codayus_: in pve, I do |
| 22:06.20 | tem | anyone pvping as any other mage spec is doing it wrong |
| 22:06.23 | Codayus_ | Ah, well, other classes have been in that boat. |
| 22:06.26 | Adys | 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3 |
| 22:06.31 | tem | and it's always been that way |
| 22:06.40 | tem | mage pvp as anything but frost is wrong |
| 22:06.57 | Adys | tem: I know |
| 22:07.16 | tem | so saying that frost is useless or has ever been useless is wrong |
| 22:07.16 | Adys | tem: that doesn't make frost right in 3.3 for arenas |
| 22:07.36 | Zev | Can anyone recommend a good DKP tracking system? |
| 22:07.38 | Adys | other specs were even more useless in pvp; that was the problem |
| 22:07.39 | Codayus_ | Priests, paladins, and rogues spring to mind, but I'm sure there's other examples. |
| 22:07.46 | Adys | Codayus_: no |
| 22:07.51 | foxlit | Zev: we usually used a website-backed eqdkp |
| 22:07.52 | tem | I didn't know they were changing anything for frost in 3.3? |
| 22:07.54 | Adys | quit spouting random class names gimme a real spec |
| 22:08.03 | foxlit | (or, rather, just eqdkp on a website) |
| 22:08.07 | Adys | tem: frost doesn't scale |
| 22:08.07 | tem | Ret was lolret for 4 years |
| 22:08.21 | foxlit | Balance was silly until Wrath |
| 22:08.21 | Zev | Cool thanks foxlit. |
| 22:08.35 | foxlit | I mean sure, I raided as balance in BC, but that was despite of, and not because of, the talents. |
| 22:09.06 | Codayus_ | Adys: Disc was useless in vanilla and TBC, to pick one example of many. Ret - ditto. Subtetly I believe was the same, not that familiar with it. |
| 22:09.13 | Adys | tem: every season, frost gets lower and lower on the scale because of gear |
| 22:09.17 | Adys | disc wasn't useless in tbc |
| 22:09.23 | Codayus_ | Adys: It was in pve. |
| 22:09.23 | Adys | neither was ret |
| 22:09.26 | Codayus_ | Full stop. |
| 22:09.54 | Adys | then something must be wrong, I saw plenty of disc priests in sunwell |
| 22:10.00 | Codayus_ | Adys: No, you didn't. |
| 22:10.12 | Codayus_ | Unless your on drugs, because it simply did not happen. EVER. |
| 22:10.51 | Adys | sighs |
| 22:10.55 | NightHawkTheSane | Codayus_: to be sure, yeah, subtlety was basically a joke until tbc. its still not a strong spec |
| 22:11.06 | NightHawkTheSane | s/tbc/wotlk/ |
| 22:11.09 | NightHawkTheSane | bleh |
| 22:14.02 | Codayus_ | shrugs |
| 22:14.14 | Codayus_ | ALl part of the great Bliz "designated pvp tree" idea. |
| 22:14.19 | Codayus_ | Thankfully deceased. |
| 22:14.33 | Codayus_ | Because it was retarded. :) |
| 22:14.39 | NightHawkTheSane | yarrr |
| 22:14.47 | Thunder_Child | now with the dual spec i am not so sure |
| 22:15.23 | Codayus_ | Mmm, maybe. But I don't know what's gained by saying "arms is the uber pvp tree and will suck at pve". Having pvp specs - yeah sure. But why a tree? |
| 22:15.27 | NightHawkTheSane | no, its still a silly idea |
| 22:15.45 | NightHawkTheSane | there's no reason to say 'x spec is ONLY for pv[ep]' |
| 22:15.50 | Thunder_Child | it would make balance a whole lot easier for them |
| 22:15.59 | NightHawkTheSane | but it would make the game less fun |
| 22:16.12 | Thunder_Child | maybe |
| 22:19.07 | zenzelezz | "Please allow several days for the faction change to complete." [Two minutes pass] "Faction change complete." |
| 22:19.16 | zenzelezz | nice margin for error there |
| 22:19.48 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah its a boilerplate text |
| 22:20.20 | cbreak | it is fact that some trees are purely for pvp in blizard's eyes |
| 22:20.51 | NightHawkTheSane | cbreak: they're trying to change that, though |
| 22:20.58 | cbreak | very slowly |
| 22:21.16 | cbreak | I am still holding my breath since a few years ago until they manage to make frost on par with the other specs |
| 22:21.17 | NightHawkTheSane | but it IS happening |
| 22:21.21 | zenzelezz | cbreak: you know... I read that sentence literally for a moment, and wondered "they really place trees in the world just for PvP?" |
| 22:21.37 | Codayus_ | For some classes, it's already fixed. |
| 22:21.39 | cbreak | zenzelezz: FOR THE RAINFOREST! |
| 22:21.42 | Codayus_ | For others...yeah, not so much. |
| 22:35.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotaii (n=Gotai@ip54546435.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 22:37.05 | *** join/#wowuidev BWMerlin (n=chatzill@58.174.148.250) |
| 22:37.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Zyn (n=zyn@h243n2-av-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:37.05 | *** join/#wowuidev jpmorgan (n=jpmorgan@67.183.221.120) |
| 22:37.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (n=Gotai@ip54546435.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:37.05 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:37.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Lizz (n=fake@nat-portal-160-94-47-16.uofm.wireless.umn.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:37.05 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (i=as@unaffiliated/a-ko) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:37.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (n=xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 22:37.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@2506ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:37.05 | *** join/#wowuidev mascondante (i=kvirc@99-196-56-224.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 22:37.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Lukian (i=lukian@203.123.90.21) |
| 22:37.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Taroven (n=Taroven@HW-ESR1-208-102-197-5.fuse.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:37.05 | *** join/#wowuidev WobWork1 (n=Wobwork@136.136.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:37.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaelten (n=Kaelten@li48-210.members.linode.com) |
| 22:37.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Sesshu (n=Sesshu@ip-71-18.travedsl.de) |
| 22:37.05 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (n=Mike@c-68-38-45-3.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 22:40.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Repo (n=supybot@repos.curseforge.net) |
| 22:46.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Jiminizer2 (n=jiminize@152.105.165.179) |
| 22:48.12 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:50.03 | Fisker | does it go to 11? |
| 22:50.09 | NightHawkTheSane | AUGHHASLH...... ze goggles! they do nothing! |
| 22:50.24 | Shirik | my little pony |
| 22:50.40 | Shirik | foxlit: Seems reasonable |
| 22:50.47 | Shirik | It's only O(n^4) |
| 22:50.57 | foxlit | Shirik: not n^4 |
| 22:51.16 | Shirik | I didn't look closely enough, I just saw 4 for loops :P |
| 22:51.31 | foxlit | That holds, yes. They just aren't all for the same limit |
| 22:51.37 | Shirik | yeah |
| 22:51.46 | Shirik | anyway, writing a unit test for that would be a nightmare |
| 22:52.00 | foxlit | mm? |
| 22:52.33 | foxlit | Perhaps I should replace the inner with strcmp to hide a level. |
| 22:52.36 | Shirik | Needs.... 2^5 unit tests |
| 22:52.42 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 22:52.45 | Fisker | you're finally here |
| 22:52.51 | Shirik | I've been here |
| 22:52.54 | Shirik | I've been playing Aion |
| 22:52.55 | foxlit | I don't follow. |
| 22:53.11 | Fisker | oh god Shirik |
| 22:53.14 | Fisker | i wanted to ask you out |
| 22:53.20 | Fisker | But not if you play aion |
| 22:53.24 | foxlit | I've got five conditions, but not every permutation is meaningful. |
| 22:53.28 | Shirik | at least according to our guidelines, you are required to have 100% independent condition/decision coverage |
| 22:53.56 | Shirik | the first "for" isn't included because it's constant |
| 22:54.06 | Shirik | the if has to be tested with options > 1 and options <= 1 |
| 22:54.25 | Shirik | the for has to be tested with inst->gamma[i].options == 0 and != 0 |
| 22:54.58 | foxlit | But that wouldn't ever occur |
| 22:55.04 | Shirik | the next for has to be tested with inst->gamma[i].options == 1 and inst->gamma[i].options > 1 |
| 22:55.09 | Shirik | Then it has to be rewritten :) |
| 22:55.28 | Shirik | I mean for your purposes, it might work. Just saying how our team operates |
| 22:55.46 | Shirik | There has to be /something/ that happens in that case. It could be as simple as, if that is detected, return EINVAL |
| 22:56.15 | Shirik | can't be any situations that "shouldn't happen, so cause undefined behavior" |
| 22:57.01 | foxlit | You've got bigger problems if x = 0 after verifying that x > 1 |
| 22:57.25 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (i=spode@213-21-88-111.bon.t3.se) |
| 22:57.29 | Shirik | hm? how did you get that? |
| 22:58.10 | Shirik | (Each one of the cases I discussed are separate tests, so ignore the fact that I said both options ==0 and options == 1 |
| 22:58.48 | foxlit | "Shirik: the for has to be tested with inst->gamma[i].options == 0 and != 0" |
| 22:58.58 | Shirik | oh |
| 22:58.59 | foxlit | The if it's inside ensures that gamma[i].options > 1 |
| 22:59.03 | Shirik | I missed the if right before that :) |
| 22:59.16 | *** join/#wowuidev spodee (i=spode@213-21-88-111.bon.t3.se) |
| 22:59.19 | Shirik | hm |
| 22:59.25 | Shirik | I wonder how that's supposed to be handled |
| 22:59.40 | Shirik | I don't know the exact regulations, I just have a program that yells at you with "You need to handle this case!" |
| 22:59.42 | Thunder_Child | by a psycopath |
| 23:00.22 | Shirik | I think that's ok then, you're right |
| 23:00.31 | Shirik | yeah, because the if condition is considered satisfied |
| 23:00.42 | Shirik | so everything inside it is OK except when it's true |
| 23:01.01 | Shirik | you do, however, need to handle the case where gamma[i].options == 0 |
| 23:01.11 | Shirik | but that's to test the if, not the for |
| 23:01.28 | Shirik | actually, 1 would be OK too |
| 23:02.08 | Shirik | anything that makes the if false |
| 23:02.08 | foxlit | It executes nothing in that case, though? |
| 23:02.08 | foxlit | There's no code to test. |
| 23:02.08 | Shirik | But what you're verifying is that executing nothing is correct |
| 23:02.08 | Jerub | what colour do prismatic gems count as, for the purposes of meta gems |
| 23:02.08 | foxlit | Jerub: all three. |
| 23:02.08 | Jerub | at the same time? or just one of them? |
| 23:02.11 | Shirik | Condition/Decision coverage ensures that both conditions of any decision are handled |
| 23:02.15 | olafski | all of them at once jerub |
| 23:02.47 | Jerub | i mean, if I have a requirement for 2 red 1 blue, does it count for 1 red and 1 blue, or just one of them? |
| 23:02.59 | Shirik | both Jerub |
| 23:03.10 | Shirik | just like green/orange/purple gems |
| 23:03.25 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:03.25 | Shirik | I don't like that it works like that |
| 23:03.27 | Shirik | but w/e |
| 23:03.45 | Shirik | yay continue |
| 23:03.55 | Shirik | I'm not sure that's "better" but it looks nicer :) |
| 23:03.56 | Shirik | at first glance |
| 23:04.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@h238n1-far-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 23:04.14 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 23:04.21 | foxlit | It segfaults nicely, too. |
| 23:04.27 | Shirik | why 11? |
| 23:04.38 | foxlit | error code. |
| 23:04.39 | Shirik | also |
| 23:04.41 | Shirik | ok |
| 23:04.56 | Shirik | I should think even you agree with me that 11 is not an appropriate value to return as an error code |
| 23:04.58 | foxlit | (m = j + 1; j < ...; m++) is just plain silly. |
| 23:05.01 | Shirik | #define ESOMETHING 11 |
| 23:05.36 | Shirik | anyway |
| 23:05.41 | Shirik | scoffs at your use of i++ |
| 23:05.44 | Shirik | gogo ++i |
| 23:06.36 | foxlit | Perhaps I should return a const char * with the error description. |
| 23:08.50 | foxlit | [The intention really is to just quit after encountering an error, so I'm not at all interested in providing meaningful return values to code] |
| 23:09.18 | Shirik | signal(SIGCORE) ? |
| 23:09.20 | Shirik | er |
| 23:09.22 | Shirik | kill(SIGCORE) |
| 23:09.47 | *** join/#wowuidev mojosdojo_ (n=gdbzet26@p4FEFEB51.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:10.22 | foxlit | I am, however, interested in whining at the user for providing fail input. |
| 23:10.31 | Shirik | Core dump is whining :P |
| 23:11.16 | Shirik | kill(0, SIGILL) |
| 23:11.20 | Shirik | illegal instruction |
| 23:11.32 | Shirik | totally unintended use, but totally the literal meaning :P |
| 23:11.41 | Corrodias | casts foxlit's (const char *) to a (char *) and produces lols |
| 23:11.50 | Shirik | watches Corrodias segfault |
| 23:12.09 | Shirik | embraces C++'s type safety preventing Corrodias from removing 'const' |
| 23:12.25 | Corrodias | eh, my copy of Borland C++ Builder 6 doesn't stop you from casting that |
| 23:12.40 | Shirik | Borland C++ is less in line with the C++ standard than MSVC 6 was |
| 23:13.01 | Corrodias | doesn't surprise me at all |
| 23:13.07 | Shirik | And MSVC 6 was REALLY bad |
| 23:13.10 | Cide | do you declare a pointer as const or a memory segment as const? |
| 23:13.14 | Corrodias | although that does make me wonder... why does it prevent you from removing const? |
| 23:13.18 | Cide | if only the former, how do you un-const a pointer? |
| 23:13.21 | Corrodias | i thought those languages let you do just about anything |
| 23:13.58 | Corrodias | i mean, if nothing else, they can declare their own pointer to the memory and alter it anyway |
| 23:13.58 | Shirik | Corrodias: It's unsafe |
| 23:14.03 | Shirik | no they can't |
| 23:14.06 | Corrodias | why not? |
| 23:14.08 | Shirik | if you have a const int, you can only make a const int* |
| 23:14.48 | foxlit | You could probably slingshot it through int. |
| 23:15.00 | foxlit | But hey, I'm no C++ programmer. |
| 23:15.04 | Shirik | you can use const_cast if you're really that determined |
| 23:15.07 | Corrodias | so if i have a const int at 0x400000, i can't declare an int*, assign it the value 400000, and play? |
| 23:15.12 | Shirik | yes you can |
| 23:15.20 | Shirik | but you're going to have to figure out where it is first |
| 23:15.23 | foxlit | But chances are you'll just crash. |
| 23:15.25 | Shirik | which is harder than just using const_cast |
| 23:15.29 | Shirik | But, what foxlit said |
| 23:15.32 | Corrodias | oh, interesting |
| 23:15.32 | foxlit | since my plan was return "Fail less"; |
| 23:15.40 | Shirik | The REASON const exists is because there are a lot of things you literally can't change |
| 23:15.40 | Cide | why? |
| 23:15.47 | Shirik | let us take this example |
| 23:15.54 | Corrodias | i'm not suggesting it's a GOOD IDEA to change things |
| 23:15.57 | foxlit | Which'd get stored in the text segment, which is read-only, so writing to it will mean a swift and painless death. |
| 23:16.09 | Cide | can you not do const int i = 1; int* i = &i; // ? |
| 23:16.11 | Shirik | const char* foo = "Hello, world!"; char *nonConst = const_cast<char*>(foo); strcpy(nonConst, "Hahha!"); |
| 23:16.13 | Shirik | Will segfault |
| 23:16.14 | NightHawkTheSane | ... are there any irc clients that scroll in reverse? |
| 23:16.14 | Shirik | No Cide |
| 23:16.20 | Shirik | &i will return a const int* |
| 23:16.24 | Cide | ah, true |
| 23:16.36 | *** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (n=nuoHep@89.222.156.36) |
| 23:16.41 | Cide | I wish my university taught c++ instead of java |
| 23:16.49 | Corrodias | i see, interesting. that has to do with binary storage. |
| 23:17.07 | foxlit | It really has to do with memory management. |
| 23:17.08 | Corrodias | structure. whatever. |
| 23:17.11 | Shirik | The "Hello, world!" is likely stored in the code segment (depends on the system really, there are other places too) |
| 23:17.29 | Shirik | actually |
| 23:17.34 | Corrodias | hmmm. why is a portion of the binary in memory read-only? how is that enforced? by the operating system? |
| 23:17.34 | Shirik | I think x86 doesn't put it there |
| 23:17.41 | Shirik | Yes, Corrodias |
| 23:17.45 | foxlit | Yes. |
| 23:17.50 | Shirik | Well, actually, it's "enforced" by the processor |
| 23:17.52 | foxlit | VM pages can have permission bits. |
| 23:17.54 | Shirik | the OS just sets up the rules |
| 23:18.10 | Corrodias | isn't that a function of Data Execution Prevention/Protection/whatever? |
| 23:18.11 | foxlit | The processor traps if you try to do something to memory that you aren't allowed to by the OS. |
| 23:18.24 | Shirik | DEP is just one of those protection capabilities |
| 23:18.25 | Corrodias | or does that happen even without DEP? |
| 23:18.40 | foxlit | DEP prevents execution of code. |
| 23:18.47 | Shirik | execution of data... |
| 23:18.50 | Corrodias | ah |
| 23:18.51 | foxlit | well, yes. |
| 23:18.54 | Corrodias | right. not changing it. |
| 23:18.55 | Shirik | if it prevented execution of code that would be bad |
| 23:18.55 | foxlit | Preventing reading/writing existed earlier. |
| 23:19.12 | Shirik | Basically it tracks where data has been written, and when you try to execute it, a GPF is raised |
| 23:19.23 | Corrodias | fascinating stuff |
| 23:19.51 | Shirik | But the more ubiquitous stuff is things like the OS sets bounds on physical addresses |
| 23:19.58 | Shirik | when you go outside those bounds, the processor raises a GPF |
| 23:20.14 | Shirik | actually, I think the bounds are set logically |
| 23:20.15 | Shirik | in any case, it sets a bound |
| 23:21.09 | Shirik | Think about it Corrodias, if this didn't exist, I would be able to just go into kernel memory, change whatever I want, and magically have admin permission, etc. |
| 23:22.35 | Corrodias | i wouldn't suggest changing memory in other processes |
| 23:22.54 | Shirik | a malicious program might :) |
| 23:23.06 | Shirik | Here's an interesting point |
| 23:23.07 | Corrodias | no, no, i'm saying that i wouldn't want that to be possible |
| 23:23.13 | Shirik | The original XBox didn't enforce these rules |
| 23:23.14 | Corrodias | but i'm sort of surprised you can't change your own code |
| 23:23.17 | Shirik | all games ran in kernel mode |
| 23:23.29 | Shirik | result? So easy to put, say, Linux as your dashboard |
| 23:23.32 | foxlit | Quick, make a russian roulette game for your PC: if you lose, a random bit gets flipped somewhere. |
| 23:23.39 | Shirik | rofl |
| 23:23.46 | Shirik | that would be a great driver |
| 23:25.15 | Corrodias | what's the harm in altering your own code? |
| 23:25.32 | foxlit | Corrodias: there generally isn't any, but people usually don't do that. |
| 23:26.05 | Corrodias | figures |
| 23:26.11 | foxlit | And if you're sure that *you* don't use that functionality intentionally, there's a benefit in ensuring that you don't accidentally do it. |
| 23:27.25 | Cide | fuck my laptop |
| 23:27.45 | NightHawkTheSane | no thanks, still chafing from last time |
| 23:27.51 | Cide | the screws holding up the screen are loose |
| 23:28.24 | NightHawkTheSane | :o that sucks |
| 23:28.43 | Cide | it's like 7 months old, too |
| 23:28.46 | Thunder_Child | NightHawkTheSane, vaseline |
| 23:29.12 | Cide | wonder if it's expensive to fix |
| 23:29.30 | NightHawkTheSane | if its just some loose screws, probably (hopefully) not |
| 23:34.19 | Shirik | foxlit: Quite simple |
| 23:34.25 | Shirik | Programs almost never do that except for two types: |
| 23:34.31 | Shirik | (1) Polymorphic viruses, which we don't want anyway |
| 23:34.36 | Shirik | (2) Programs with security vulnerabilities |
| 23:34.43 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@89-151-222.200.3p.ntebredband.no) |
| 23:34.58 | Shirik | The #1 most common exploit is a stack buffer overflow, which allows someone to overwrite the return address on the stack |
| 23:35.14 | Shirik | By using this correctly, you can jump to some data you may have stored somewhere |
| 23:35.22 | Shirik | If it's valid code, it will start executing |
| 23:35.28 | Dagmar | Yay GCC stack protection. |
| 23:35.32 | Shirik | With those protections, these types of vlunerabilities are thwarted |
| 23:35.35 | Dagmar | Yay NX bits. |
| 23:35.52 | Shirik | er |
| 23:35.56 | Shirik | that was not @ foxlit, that was @ Corrodias |
| 23:40.37 | Sesshu | is there a way to get another root exept a square root in lua? |
| 23:40.54 | Shirik | yes, if you know your algebra |
| 23:40.57 | Shirik | Pop quix |
| 23:41.03 | Shirik | n^x = sqrt(n) |
| 23:41.05 | Shirik | what is the value of x? |
| 23:41.13 | foxlit | i! |
| 23:41.17 | Shirik | ... no |
| 23:41.18 | Sesshu | 2 |
| 23:41.23 | Shirik | ... no |
| 23:41.26 | Shirik | that would be n^2 |
| 23:41.27 | Sesshu | -.- |
| 23:41.29 | foxlit | ... at least I had style. |
| 23:41.41 | Sesshu | sqrt is the square |
| 23:41.41 | NightHawkTheSane | it's obviously santa clause |
| 23:41.43 | Sesshu | so 2 oO |
| 23:41.44 | Corrodias | understood |
| 23:41.46 | Codayus_ | Raise to the inverse |
| 23:41.48 | Shirik | n^(1/2) is the square root of n |
| 23:41.51 | Corrodias | hmm |
| 23:41.55 | NightHawkTheSane | mourns for Sesshu's math teachers |
| 23:42.02 | Corrodias | wait, how does self-modifying code actually happen, then? |
| 23:42.04 | Codayus_ | 1/2 is square root, 1/3 is cube root, 1/n is the nth root |
| 23:42.04 | Shirik | so cube root is...? |
| 23:42.08 | Shirik | ... |
| 23:42.10 | Shirik | you suck |
| 23:42.14 | Codayus_ | Sorry |
| 23:42.19 | foxlit | Corrodias: the protection does not have to be enforced. |
| 23:42.19 | Sesshu | erm |
| 23:42.23 | Cide | n^x == n^(1/2) |
| 23:42.27 | Cide | how is this not evident |
| 23:42.29 | foxlit | In fact, DEP/No-Execute is rather new. |
| 23:42.34 | Codayus_ | I agree with NightHawkTheSane, however. |
| 23:42.48 | Corrodias | you're talking about data execution; i'm talking about code modification |
| 23:42.52 | Corrodias | the old one |
| 23:42.56 | foxlit | Corrodias: same thing. |
| 23:42.59 | foxlit | code is data. |
| 23:43.03 | foxlit | And data is code. |
| 23:43.10 | Sesshu | ah |
| 23:43.17 | Shirik | That is WHY any literal strings must be const in code |
| 23:43.20 | Corrodias | you're trying to confuse me, but i think i've actually sorted out what you mean |
| 23:43.27 | Shirik | because it is very possible for them to be put somewhere you can't change |
| 23:43.47 | Corrodias | those polymorphic viruses basically had their entire code in the data segment? |
| 23:43.49 | foxlit | I'm merely alluding to "All is one, and one is all" :) |
| 23:44.01 | Shirik | Run a debugger on a program sometime and have it show you disassembly |
| 23:44.10 | Shirik | You will likely find more than just code |
| 23:44.19 | Shirik | right up against it, even |
| 23:44.28 | Shirik | Corrodias: No, they were in the code segment |
| 23:44.31 | Corrodias | well sure, but that's not... |
| 23:44.33 | foxlit | Hm, only NULL pointer is reserved, right? |
| 23:44.44 | Shirik | hm? |
| 23:44.49 | Shirik | what do you mean reserved? |
| 23:44.53 | foxlit | I can't guarantee that a pointer would never be, say, 1, through normal allocation? |
| 23:44.55 | Corrodias | look, you told me that OS's do not allow you to alter things in the text/code segment or something |
| 23:45.16 | Shirik | Corrodias: OSes CAN not allow you to |
| 23:45.21 | Shirik | not all do, especially old ones |
| 23:45.48 | Sesshu | arg |
| 23:45.49 | Shirik | as foxlit said, these types of protections are relatively new |
| 23:45.50 | Sesshu | yes |
| 23:45.54 | Sesshu | i'm stupid |
| 23:45.57 | Corrodias | i see |
| 23:45.58 | Sesshu | -.- |
| 23:46.09 | Corrodias | i thought you said that DEP was a lot newer than that type |
| 23:46.28 | Corrodias | not that -all- of them were new |
| 23:46.34 | Shirik | well not all, yes |
| 23:46.53 | Shirik | however the older protections generally tended with ensuring processes did not interfere with each other |
| 23:46.59 | Shirik | not ensuring that they don't do bad things |
| 23:47.12 | Corrodias | ah |
| 23:47.18 | tem | foxlit, you can't, but the OS won |
| 23:47.20 | Corrodias | all right, that's cool |
| 23:47.26 | tem | 't let you write to an address that you shouldn't |
| 23:47.36 | tem | and your program will segfault |
| 23:48.19 | foxlit | tem: I realize that. I was wondering whether there's a "safe" pointer I could use to indicate an error condition, in addition to NULL -- a pointer that'd you'd never get through ordinary execution. |
| 23:48.42 | tem | foxlit, aaaah |
| 23:48.42 | tem | I'm not really sure, tbh |
| 23:48.42 | tem | my c++ fu is weak |
| 23:48.42 | Shirik | You could make a static variable |
| 23:48.42 | Shirik | and use the address of that |
| 23:48.49 | tem | 0xdeadcode |
| 23:48.50 | Corrodias | now, i wonder how a process can access the memory owned by another process. i see winhex do it, yet i know that processes generally refer to memory with their process's code at 0x400000 or whatever, and i know they can't all actually be at that address |
| 23:48.50 | tem | imo |
| 23:49.19 | Shirik | static int reserved = 0; void* EMYERROR = &reserved; |
| 23:49.27 | foxlit | Shirik: nice. |
| 23:49.33 | Corrodias | nice idea |
| 23:49.55 | foxlit | Corrodias: the operating system is the gatekeeper. |
| 23:50.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@124-170-157-210.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 23:50.10 | tem | Shirik, I really, really, really hate variable name prefixes |
| 23:50.11 | Corrodias | and winhex is the keymaster, or what? :V |
| 23:50.24 | foxlit | It knows where everyone's memory is, and can let you (if you ask politely) peek at or modify other processes' address spaces. |
| 23:50.26 | Shirik | tem: I love them, in certain cases |
| 23:50.32 | Shirik | System Hungarian is stupid |
| 23:50.34 | Shirik | Apps Hungarian is good |
| 23:50.37 | tem | it just makes my code ugly |
| 23:50.41 | Shirik | no |
| 23:50.42 | Shirik | it makes it readable |
| 23:50.44 | tem | and no easier to read |
| 23:50.52 | foxlit | EMYERROR is horrible, though. |
| 23:51.00 | Shirik | http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Wrong.html <-- very good article |
| 23:51.02 | Corrodias | that makes sense, foxlit. i know more technical details would be over my head, though, so i won't ask more. |
| 23:51.34 | foxlit | Corrodias: actually, it isn't that bad. |
| 23:51.57 | foxlit | If you're interested, you should dig up stuff on how virtual memory works. |
| 23:51.58 | Corrodias | i'm not at all familiar with windows/linux apis |
| 23:53.25 | foxlit | Stuff like ReadProcessMemory exists on windows: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms680553(VS.85).aspx |
| 23:53.41 | Shirik | sighs at ReadProcessMemory |
| 23:54.13 | Corrodias | hm, it copies the memory. interesting. |
| 23:54.13 | foxlit | But the more interesting detail is that what your process thinks is at a particular address does not actually have to exist at that address in physical memory -- it's all translated. |
| 23:54.19 | Shirik | even more interesting is that it may move around a lot |
| 23:54.28 | Shirik | but your program keeps accessing the same address from its point of view |
| 23:54.32 | Shirik | but it might keep going to a different place |
| 23:54.38 | Corrodias | that much i'm familiar with, yeah. it's really nice how they do that. |
| 23:54.54 | Corrodias | *it's really nice -that- they do that. i expect how is also pretty cool. |
| 23:55.07 | Shirik | s/nice/necessary/ :) |
| 23:55.22 | Sesshu | purl?! |
| 23:55.34 | foxlit | Doesn't let you correct others. |
| 23:55.47 | Sesshu | ah |
| 23:56.24 | foxlit | Basically, I have this trainwreck of a combination: |
| 23:56.25 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:56.26 | Sesshu | it seems that purl is fair |
| 23:56.46 | NightHawkTheSane | anyone have a fairly simple recipe for a round tip steak? |
| 23:56.49 | foxlit | It'd be nice to either combine it into a single function, or into a single macro, but both would just wind up being cumbersome. |
| 23:57.25 | Shirik | sizeof(char)? |
| 23:57.31 | Shirik | is that just for readability or... |
| 23:57.43 | foxlit | Just readability. |
| 23:58.01 | Shirik | I don't know C all that well, but at least in C++ sizeof(char) is guaranteed to always be 1 |
| 23:58.02 | foxlit | Well, I don't think anyone would be insane enough to resize char, but if they do, it'll still works. |
| 23:58.02 | Shirik | I was just curious |
| 23:58.41 | foxlit | Plus it won't make it into the binary, so I don't really care about redundancy there. |
