| 00:00.09 | zenzelezz | not unlike my own former code |
| 00:00.28 | Dagmar | I used to have to know that kind of stuff intimately so that I could get *into* systems |
| 00:01.42 | WobWork | but then it wouldn't call, wouldn't write, and you just drifted apart =( |
| 00:02.24 | zenzelezz | lol |
| 00:02.39 | Legorol | I remember writing key loggers in DOS |
| 00:02.41 | Legorol | fun times |
| 00:02.54 | Legorol | but what was even more fun is modding the boot code in the MBR of a hard drive |
| 00:03.20 | Legorol | I once had to find a solutio for a seemingly catch-22 situation: |
| 00:03.34 | Dagmar | Take the jump to cold start out of the MBR? |
| 00:03.39 | Legorol | I had to hide the C partition, such that if someone decided to boot from a floppy, they shouldn't be able to see it |
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| 00:03.59 | Legorol | but if they booted properly from the HD, everything should work |
| 00:04.23 | Dagmar | Partition type 6 no good? |
| 00:04.32 | Legorol | This is not possible with an active protection or hook of some sort, because that wouldn't run if someone boots from a floppy |
| 00:04.50 | Legorol | yeah that's what i ended up doing, i had an invalid partition type in the MBR |
| 00:04.54 | Dagmar | No wait, it was 12 that was hidden |
| 00:05.03 | Legorol | it was a nonstandard type on purpose |
| 00:05.32 | Dagmar | Well, Compaq used 12 for a LOOONG time as a little hidey-hole for their BIOS configuration utilities |
| 00:05.33 | Legorol | and I modified the MBR boot code to insert a hook into the appropriate requests for HD access (i forget which, probably a BIOS call) |
| 00:05.46 | Legorol | and if someone loaded the partition table, i'd flip the type in RAM only |
| 00:05.59 | Legorol | physically on the HD itself it would always be the invalid one |
| 00:06.53 | Legorol | i think i did something to prevent modification of the partition type too |
| 00:07.04 | Wobin | rofl |
| 00:07.05 | Legorol | so that you couldn't boot from a floppy and fdisk |
| 00:07.10 | Dagmar | Actually if you'd just set the partition type to 12 you'd have been good. |
| 00:07.13 | Legorol | although fdisk wouldn't work anyway |
| 00:07.24 | Wobin | CurseClient has identified that I have used WoWMatrix before based on my file structure |
| 00:07.25 | Dagmar | DOS doesn't assign drive letters to filesystems on type 12 partitions, but it knows they're DOS |
| 00:07.28 | Dagmar | er FAT |
| 00:07.29 | Wobin | SLANDER! =P |
| 00:07.35 | Legorol | Dagmar: type 12 woudln't have worked |
| 00:07.38 | Legorol | as it wouldn't show up as C |
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| 00:07.46 | Dagmar | Legorol: Once booted it woudl. |
| 00:07.53 | Legorol | hmm |
| 00:08.14 | Legorol | but would you be able to boot from a type 12? |
| 00:08.19 | Dagmar | If you stumble across some antique Compaq with a WfW 3.11 install on it, check it's stuff |
| 00:08.40 | Dagmar | Legorol: yeah. When you hit F11 during bootup it would boot the 12 partition and not the type 6 one |
| 00:09.00 | Legorol | ok |
| 00:09.09 | Legorol | that sounds like it had custom BIOS support though |
| 00:09.13 | Dagmar | Might be |
| 00:09.36 | Dagmar | When I needed to worry about that stuff, I was lazy. I just used KOH |
| 00:10.16 | Legorol | KOH? |
| 00:10.24 | Dagmar | Potassium Hydroxide |
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| 00:10.27 | Legorol | rofl |
| 00:10.47 | Dagmar | That was just it's name. |
| 00:10.48 | Legorol | this hiding of the C partition when booting from floppy was part of a more comprehensive security system |
| 00:11.02 | Dagmar | You might come across it classified as a virus, because of the way it worked. |
| 00:11.03 | Legorol | the point of forcing booting from C was so that additional stuff could be forced to be loaded, before a user had access to C |
| 00:11.09 | Dagmar | It was basically an agressive disk encryptor |
| 00:11.36 | Dagmar | It would encrypt the entire disk, and copy itself to floppies so that they could be encrypted as well |
| 00:11.40 | Arrowmaster | was this before you could adjust the boot order in the bios or something? |
| 00:11.55 | Dagmar | ...which meant if you booted that floppy on some other machine, and didn't use your brain when it came up asking for a password, you just encrypted your disk |
| 00:12.05 | Legorol | lol |
| 00:12.26 | Legorol | well booting dodgy floppies in the first place is.. dodgy :) |
| 00:12.43 | ScytheBlade1 | know what's even more dodgy? |
| 00:12.43 | Legorol | Arrowmaster: what about the boot order? |
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| 00:12.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Using them for a BIOS update |
| 00:13.06 | Legorol | yah that's a scary thought |
| 00:13.12 | Legorol | a virus on a bootable floppy that zaps your BIOS |
| 00:13.13 | Arrowmaster | Legorol: did you do this before you could set the hdd as the first in the boot order and password the bios? |
| 00:13.16 | Dagmar | Yeah, I'd hacked up my DOS install disks so that the "ur an idiot" text said "MACHINE NOW INFECTED" instead of "NO OS FOUND - PRESS ANY KEY TO REBOOT" or whatever it was |
| 00:13.50 | Legorol | Arrowmaster: yeah way before |
| 00:13.54 | Dagmar | Got into some hot water for that once or twice |
| 00:14.09 | Legorol | actually that's a funny point you have there dagmar |
| 00:14.50 | Legorol | depending on what format utility you used, even on a non-bootable floppy, the boot partition would have that tiny bit of code displaying the error message |
| 00:14.56 | Dagmar | Well, the string *did* come from the floppy |
| 00:15.03 | Legorol | and depending on the version of format, the message could differ |
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| 00:15.16 | Dagmar | I was *constantly* having to go on virus-removal calls, so I couldn't afford to be slack about it |
| 00:15.17 | Legorol | i had a lot of amusement from using a german DOS's format on a fresh disk |
| 00:15.26 | Legorol | and then, despite the disk being non-bootable, it'd give german error message |
| 00:15.47 | Dagmar | Yeah, this is why I hacked up my DOS disks so the format utility put a slightly different boot sector on them |
| 00:16.09 | Dagmar | ...to provide me with a constant reminder that *every* disk is bootable |
| 00:16.15 | Legorol | :) |
| 00:16.31 | Legorol | you konw what's also fun: |
| 00:16.35 | Legorol | fiddling with bootable USB sticks |
| 00:16.41 | Dagmar | I had something like 800 viruses when I stopped collecting |
| 00:16.59 | Legorol | or to be more precise: fiddling with the file system on a USB stick (whether you can boot from one depends on your BIOS) |
| 00:17.15 | Legorol | you can, with the right utilities, format a USB stick to have a HDD-like structure, or a floppy like structure |
| 00:17.23 | Legorol | some BIOS-es can boot one but not the other, and vice versa |
| 00:17.49 | Dagmar | Yes, it's infuriating |
| 00:17.53 | Legorol | if you take a hex editor to your USB stick, you'll find that some have an MBR like an HDD, and some don't |
| 00:18.03 | Arrowmaster | some bios will have both usb-hdd and usb-floppy as part of the boot order selection |
| 00:18.03 | Dagmar | I keep hoping I'll find some universal solution |
| 00:18.08 | Syzgyn | kd3: Enjoying our fine weather? |
| 00:18.38 | Syzgyn | lol |
| 00:18.42 | Legorol | I fixed myself up with a nice USB stick, which has a boot image for a stripped down copy of XP |
| 00:18.46 | Dagmar | Legorol: None of them really have an MBR, but the BIOS does a good job of faking it |
| 00:18.52 | Legorol | Dagmar: not true |
| 00:19.01 | Legorol | that's exactly i'm telling you, you *can* put an MBR on a USB stick |
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| 00:19.36 | Dagmar | I know you can, but it doesn't work the same way as with a fixed disk, just because USB disks are kinda hacky |
| 00:19.53 | Legorol | works differently how? |
| 00:19.55 | Dagmar | What Arrowmaster says is dead on |
| 00:20.18 | Dagmar | It'll drive you freaking batty when you're trying to make a bootable "works anywhere" thumbdisk for forensics |
| 00:20.27 | Legorol | at least on the machines that i have seen, the BIOS would look at the appropriate byte of the first sector on the USB disk to see if it's an MBR or a boot partition, and then appropriate fake the device as an HDD or floppy drive |
| 00:20.43 | Dagmar | Not all of them look |
| 00:20.48 | Legorol | pity :( |
| 00:20.55 | Legorol | do those just assume an HDD? |
| 00:21.15 | Dagmar | As far as I can tell some do |
| 00:21.35 | Legorol | also, what Arrowmaster said: does that apply to thumb drives, or to external USB hard drives/floppy drives? |
| 00:21.48 | Legorol | i wouldn't be surprised if a BIOS setting labeled as usb-floppy applied to an external drive |
| 00:21.50 | Arrowmaster | if you know any secrets for making a usb drive boot on older systems do tell |
| 00:21.59 | Legorol | it needs BIOS support |
| 00:22.00 | Dagmar | The first time I tried to make a bootable thumbdrive, things "just worked" because I was stupid, treated the thing like a disk, and got lucky |
| 00:22.06 | Legorol | so on some systems it just won't work, Arrowmaster :( |
| 00:22.15 | Dagmar | s/disk/fixed disk/; |
| 00:22.22 | Arrowmaster | the first time i created a bootable thumbdrive i nuked it |
| 00:22.33 | Dagmar | About a year later, different machine, utter failure |
| 00:22.36 | Legorol | and then your machine wouldn't read it anymore? |
| 00:22.58 | Arrowmaster | yeah i nuked it so bad it couldnt even be reformated |
| 00:23.01 | Legorol | i had a similar problem, Windows refuses to partition/format a completely nuked USB disk, nor are there any MS utilities to help you |
| 00:23.18 | Legorol | HP has a USB disk formatter utility though that completely nukes the USB disks, and places a new MBR on it |
| 00:23.22 | Arrowmaster | i couldnt even format it using linux i think |
| 00:23.37 | Legorol | i still have it somewhere i think |
| 00:23.37 | Dagmar | Legorol: Sounds like a relative of U3 |
| 00:23.52 | Arrowmaster | hate U3 |
| 00:24.09 | Arrowmaster | i have to remove it to get the drives to work on school computers |
| 00:24.09 | Legorol | Arrowmaster: i think most OS-es, possibly even linux variants, assume the USB drive to be a partitioned HDD with an intact MBR |
| 00:24.29 | Dagmar | Leogrol: Well, it seems like that's the more common case now so it should be safe |
| 00:24.31 | Legorol | i mean when it comes to trying to format them |
| 00:24.40 | Arrowmaster | but my 16GB drive doesnt work on school computers most of the time |
| 00:24.45 | Dagmar | I've got an old cruzer 128mb here that defaults to pretending to be a floppy |
| 00:24.56 | Legorol | Dagmar: what is a problem with this is that you better hope nothing ever touches the MBR on the USB disk |
| 00:24.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Legacy crap needs to die. |
| 00:24.59 | Legorol | otherwise you are screwed :) |
| 00:25.17 | Dagmar | Legorol: This is good because you can't normally actually touch the *real* partition table on a USB stick |
| 00:25.17 | Legorol | Dagmar: take a hex editor to it and check out the first sector |
| 00:25.26 | Arrowmaster | Legorol: you could always write to it in linux using dd |
| 00:25.27 | Dagmar | Legorol: It's full of zeroes |
| 00:25.35 | Legorol | interesting |
| 00:25.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, linux will write you an MBR without whining. |
| 00:25.46 | Legorol | sure, dd should work |
| 00:25.56 | Arrowmaster | i think dd is how i nuked the first one |
| 00:26.31 | Dagmar | Legorol: Basically, what you see when you access a thumbdrive is a phony slice of it's actual filesystem |
| 00:27.07 | Legorol | hm, i can see the MBR as the first sector when i take a hex editor to mine on my machine |
| 00:27.09 | Dagmar | Kinda like taking a 600Mb filesystem and sticking it onto a cdrom as a flat file so you can mount it with -o loop |
| 00:27.34 | Dagmar | You're seeing hte first sector of the filesystem part it's been told to present to the host device |
| 00:27.37 | Adys | the hell |
| 00:27.47 | Legorol | Dagmar: right, that makes sense |
| 00:27.54 | Legorol | but that's on a hardware level then? |
| 00:28.07 | Legorol | so you can't mess up its internals from software, or can you? |
| 00:28.15 | Dagmar | So, with the right software, or on an extremely bad day, you can acutaly diddle it's "real" partition table |
| 00:28.33 | Adys | People are reporting posts, commenting to the mods like they were commenting to the poster |
| 00:28.39 | Dagmar | ...and if you Google for about a damn week, you can even find tools that will let you resize/reallocate things on a U3-capable drive |
| 00:28.52 | Dagmar | Adys: I've been that drunk before. |
| 00:28.56 | Legorol | cool |
| 00:30.42 | Dagmar | Legorol: Honestly I don't see why manufs are so tight-fisted about those particular utilities |
| 00:31.02 | Dagmar | It's not like an SDcard where there's a filesystem that's "free" and a filesystem area that's "protected" |
| 00:33.32 | Legorol | am i the only one who thinks this page is not very useful: http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/achievement-tips.html |
| 00:34.05 | Legorol | if you are going to be going for achievements, you probably should be able to figure out the stuff that's on there on your own already |
| 00:34.11 | Legorol | if you need that stuff explaining to you... |
| 00:34.45 | Dagmar | There's people who do need that |
| 00:35.21 | Dagmar | Damnit I still can't find decent docs on the difference between usb-hdd and usb-floppy modes |
| 00:35.33 | Dagmar | Ah well. So long as ISOLINUX never breaks |
| 00:35.40 | Legorol | Dagmar: can you forsee someone getting loremaster, who needs that page first? |
| 00:36.02 | Dagmar | First time I made one bootable, I used lilo and all my friends acted like my head had just started spinning around |
| 00:36.26 | Legorol | catch you later people :) |
| 00:36.44 | Dagmar | Legorol: I can for the same reason I know a few level 80s who are about to hit that "everything >213" achievement for no better reason than they play twenty hours a week |
| 00:36.50 | Arrowmaster | now people use grub on usb sticks |
| 00:37.08 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: Doesn't exactly sort the problem tho |
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| 00:50.43 | NightHawkTheSane | heh, Eyonix: "Maybe I should start showing up to people's houses who are unable to make BlizzCon. I'll just let myself in, and hang out on their couch wearing a blizzard t-shirt. This could be my weekend gig." |
| 01:01.38 | Gnarfoz | lol |
| 01:02.32 | mikma | haha |
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| 01:05.17 | Aznamir | hi all |
| 01:07.24 | Shirik | Anyone here used Microsoft Project? Is there a way I can get the gantt chart into an image? |
| 01:08.01 | foxlit | screenshot it |
| 01:08.22 | foxlit | ~rimshot |
| 01:08.23 | purl | ba-dum CHH |
| 01:08.36 | Wobin | wait |
| 01:08.39 | Aznamir | print it, then photograph it |
| 01:08.46 | Wobin | take a photo of the screen with a digital camera |
| 01:08.46 | Aznamir | =) |
| 01:09.06 | Wobin | then fax it to yourself =) |
| 01:09.38 | Aznamir | there's a camera icon on the standard toolbar (the top one) ... you can take |
| 01:09.38 | Aznamir | a "photo" of your gantt chart and use that in word or powerpoint or |
| 01:09.38 | Aznamir | whereever :) |
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| 01:11.32 | Wobin | pft |
| 01:11.35 | Wobin | helpful advice |
| 01:13.01 | foxlit | does Gantt-charts in SVG |
| 01:13.15 | foxlit | You should see them, it's a textual DISASTER. |
| 01:13.28 | foxlit | (perhaps if I wasn't so lazy, I'd XSLT them from something sensible) |
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| 01:23.18 | mikma | lolzies |
| 01:23.41 | mikma | my wife was on her bank alt, suddenly she got 2 messages: her main has come online -> her main has gone offline |
| 01:24.22 | Gnarfoz | same account? oO |
| 01:24.25 | mikma | same account. |
| 01:25.07 | mikma | dunno is the GM doing some tricks to her, cause she got a bug where she got saved to EoE while she was with another group in naxx entrance :D |
| 01:25.30 | Gnarfoz | they can't log into chars on your account while you're online, either |
| 01:25.43 | ScytheBlade1 | ... yes they can |
| 01:25.45 | Gnarfoz | at least they keep claiming so :< |
| 01:25.57 | mikma | both of them happened at the same second btw |
| 01:26.14 | mikma | and it's the char that got saved eventho she wasn't in the group |
| 01:26.51 | Gnarfoz | still angry at GMs for moving my char on my login list |
| 01:27.02 | Gnarfoz | :\ |
| 01:27.37 | mikma | wow, how's that possible |
| 01:28.20 | ScytheBlade1 | move a character down? |
| 01:28.27 | Gnarfoz | yes, delete it, restore it |
| 01:28.33 | Gnarfoz | claim it was necessary to do so to rename it |
| 01:28.33 | ScytheBlade1 | that's what I thought |
| 01:28.34 | Gnarfoz | :p |
| 01:28.44 | Dagmar | Something bugged *bad* |
| 01:28.49 | Gnarfoz | nothing bugged |
| 01:29.12 | Gnarfoz | oh wait, I'm on his ignore list |
| 01:29.13 | Gnarfoz | ;D |
| 01:29.14 | Dagmar | You shouldn't be *able* to login more than one character per account at a time |
| 01:29.26 | Gnarfoz | force-renamed it while I was online on my rogue, logged back out and my paladin was renamed and down the list... and had a new GUID |
| 01:29.41 | Gnarfoz | etc |
| 01:29.44 | ScytheBlade1 | Customer accounts can't, GMs with the proper client can |
| 01:30.17 | Gnarfoz | I even saw a GM online on my "old" paladin that they copied to some GM account :X |
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| 01:30.47 | Gnarfoz | even though he was flagged GM invis, I could see him in the guild list. :O |
| 01:31.10 | ScytheBlade1 | They appear on guild lists, but not /who, /target, or anywhere in the world |
| 01:31.15 | Gnarfoz | yep |
| 01:31.26 | Gnarfoz | moved *very* quickly from orgrimmar, to dun morogh, to IF |
| 01:31.36 | Gnarfoz | however the hell he was in Orgrimmar in the first place?! ^^ |
| 01:33.18 | Dagmar | Yeah, but his girl isn't a GM |
| 01:33.24 | ScytheBlade1 | default GM "spawn" place on the horde side, I think |
| 01:34.50 | Shirik | Signs that you have been working too long |
| 01:35.10 | Shirik | You hear from across the room from a team member: "I just killed god... oh shit..." |
| 01:35.17 | Shirik | followed by "wtf is this, a half BSOD?" |
| 01:36.28 | Cairenn | lol |
| 01:38.15 | mikma | gnarfoz: why would they copy your paladin? |
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| 01:40.20 | Gnarfoz | mikma: claimed it was necessary to force-rename it |
| 01:40.24 | Gnarfoz | which is bull of course |
| 01:40.54 | Gnarfoz | could've just flagged me for rename, like they did after I made a ticket containing nothing but a single "wtf?" |
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| 01:43.15 | kd3 | whee at the tornado sirens going off at work |
| 01:43.39 | Pytlask | o.O |
| 01:47.33 | NightHawkTheSane | microwaving peeps! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z51WVaNdEvw |
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| 01:50.29 | mikma | kd3: duck, and cover |
| 01:50.31 | Arrowmaster | http://notalwaysright.com/ah-mothers/1234 |
| 01:50.39 | mikma | gnarfoz: stop pissing the gm's off |
| 01:50.45 | Arrowmaster | you know im not sure if the location listed with that makes it better or not |
| 01:50.53 | Gnarfoz | mikma: didn't |
| 01:51.04 | mikma | gnarfoz: "wtf?" |
| 01:51.12 | Gnarfoz | they fucked up |
| 01:51.26 | Gnarfoz | I just wanted my rename your char-flag |
| 01:51.41 | Gnarfoz | because they restored the char with a different name but didn't flag me |
| 01:51.56 | mikma | explain this throughly please |
| 01:52.07 | mikma | i hate when people skip important parts |
| 01:52.08 | Gnarfoz | Arrowmaster: funny, some time earlier today, someone linked an "ah, dads" notalwaysright :D |
| 01:52.40 | Gnarfoz | mikma: oO what more parts do you want? ^^ |
| 01:52.49 | Dagmar | mikma: They wanna steal his purples |
| 01:52.52 | kd3 | mikma, meh. more like 'grab a flashlight and a walkie-talkie, then go back to work' |
| 01:54.38 | mikma | gnarfoz: what did you do, what did they do... |
| 01:54.56 | mikma | gnarfoz: start from the beginning. |
| 01:55.01 | Gnarfoz | what for? |
| 01:55.39 | mikma | cause you make no sense atm =) |
| 01:55.59 | Gnarfoz | yeah, if you read "from the beginning" up there, it would make sense |
| 01:56.42 | Gnarfoz | I paid 8⬠to rename my char, someone apparently didn't like it, some GM was trigger happy enough to act on a single ticket, while I was on my rogue between two instance runs, some GM apparently deleted, copied & restored my paladin under a new name |
| 01:57.10 | mikma | they moved your character, you did "wtf?" ticket, they made you change the name and then they copied your old paladin. check! |
| 01:57.35 | mikma | what was the name? |
| 01:57.49 | Gnarfoz | that's totally irrelevant since they don't go around renaming people without tickets |
| 01:58.09 | Gnarfoz | said paladin wasn't flagged for rename afterwards, instead it was stuck with some random name, I logged in, ticketed with "wtf?", GM replied "oh right, I flagged you for rename now, please log out and back in", I did so, the end |
| 01:58.18 | Kalroth | it's still a fun fact, since it caused the ticket in the first place :P |
| 01:58.24 | Kalroth | was it rougelol?! |
| 01:58.34 | mikma | superpenis |
| 01:58.38 | Adys | ~whalerougelol Kalroth |
| 01:58.51 | tekkub | where? |
| 01:58.54 | Kalroth | Xxdethnightxx |
| 01:59.07 | Gnarfoz | before wotlk was even out, right |
| 01:59.32 | Kalroth | Towelslap |
| 01:59.57 | Kalroth | Fartbelch |
| 02:00.05 | mikma | sukkasaippuaa |
| 02:00.16 | mikma | (sock with soap in it) |
| 02:00.20 | Gnarfoz | Kalroth: it was: Hooloovoo (who gets the reference... + guess the race ~~), I 8â¬-made it: Lolahdin, it was made to Valnn, I made it Hooloofoo thanks to 90 day block on the original name |
| 02:00.36 | Gnarfoz | nevermind that we have a "Critadin" in the guild for 3+ years now |
| 02:00.42 | Kalroth | hhaha |
| 02:01.05 | Gnarfoz | just wanted to make my paladin recognizable in wotlk since I switched mains and my old main's name was Lolah |
| 02:01.23 | *** join/#wowuidev batbot (n=batbot@batbytes.com) |
| 02:01.24 | Kalroth | RP realm? |
| 02:01.28 | Gnarfoz | rp-pvp, yes |
| 02:01.33 | Kalroth | That'd do it |
| 02:01.35 | mikma | no wonder |
| 02:01.37 | Gnarfoz | no, actually |
| 02:01.43 | batrick | !lua 1 |
| 02:01.45 | Gnarfoz | tickets would do it. |
| 02:01.45 | batbot | batrick: > 1 |
| 02:01.55 | Gnarfoz | however, GMs are random and ignore half of them |
| 02:02.05 | mikma | and the fact that name breaks rp-server rules |
| 02:02.06 | Gnarfoz | you should see the names of chars on this rp-pvp realm |
| 02:02.13 | Gnarfoz | tell me which one it breaks, btw |
| 02:02.21 | Gnarfoz | :> |
| 02:02.22 | mikma | the naming one |
| 02:02.25 | Gnarfoz | fun |
| 02:02.27 | mikma | go and gogole |
| 02:02.28 | Gnarfoz | "the naming one" |
| 02:02.29 | Gnarfoz | xD |
| 02:02.35 | Kalroth | Sure, but most RP players are lore/immersion freaks, speaking on trade/general would be enough to get you ticketted |
| 02:02.36 | Gnarfoz | I know where the rules are and what they are |
| 02:02.45 | Gnarfoz | I report 3 tickets worth of players on a daily basis |
| 02:02.47 | mikma | naming policy? never heard of it? |
| 02:02.49 | Gnarfoz | nothing is being done about them |
| 02:03.08 | Gnarfoz | mikma: don't play stupid after making me explain this whole stuff |
| 02:03.40 | mikma | gnarfoz: you acted very oddly when i was interested about the issue |
| 02:03.46 | Dagmar | pfft. |
| 02:03.55 | mikma | you were kinda like "read up, cba" |
| 02:03.55 | Dagmar | I'll report people for having stupid names for being asshats in trade *once* |
| 02:04.01 | Dagmar | ...and I'm not on an RP server. |
| 02:04.26 | Dagmar | If you're going to be picking insultingly stupid names, keep your head down and mind those p's and q's |
| 02:04.27 | Arrowmaster | hmm classic tv time, i just got the knight rider box set =D |
| 02:04.30 | Gnarfoz | mikma: since I a) have talked about it before b) I regurgitated all interesting details today before you asked, so I was wondering what you were missing :> |
| 02:04.54 | Kalroth | I like xxrougelolzz |
| 02:04.57 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: dunno what you're on about, but whatever |
| 02:05.08 | Dagmar | Mind, you I gotta be pretty worked up to bother, but 110 people in Trade typing "anal [random skill]" does it pretty well. |
| 02:05.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Guest14303 (n=Shirik@155.31.170.189) |
| 02:05.21 | Dagmar | (move a comma a bit) |
| 02:05.23 | mikma | gnarfoz: and yet you were confusing enough so i had to keep asking that wtf happened |
| 02:05.32 | Gnarfoz | mikma: whatever |
| 02:05.33 | Gnarfoz | :P |
| 02:05.47 | mikma | first time i heard about it, too, cba cba cba |
| 02:05.55 | Gnarfoz | Lolahdin was fairly on the light side of naming violations (I'm and was obviously aware of the rules) |
| 02:05.58 | *** join/#wowuidev batbot (n=batbot@batbytes.com) |
| 02:06.20 | Gnarfoz | and what my name was kind of wasn't the point in all of this ;D |
| 02:06.21 | mikma | hmmmm |
| 02:06.33 | mikma | naming rogue Singer would be run |
| 02:06.41 | mikma | and using fast daggers |
| 02:06.49 | Gnarfoz | see, I'm actually reporting "Deathangel", "Longknifezz", etc on a daily basis |
| 02:06.52 | mikma | fun* |
| 02:07.10 | Gnarfoz | and that "I" there is actually like 5 guys from my guild ;D |
| 02:07.43 | Gnarfoz | so I don't get how some naming violations go unchallenged for what seems like forever |
| 02:08.11 | Wobin | Legolamb |
| 02:08.14 | mikma | my friend reported this dude in our own guild with the reason "his name is too hard" |
| 02:08.20 | Kalroth | hahah |
| 02:08.20 | Gnarfoz | sadly, someone else has the current list, or I'll giev more excerpts from it ^^ |
| 02:08.33 | mikma | and got a rename flag because of that... |
| 02:08.40 | Wobin | Mutabull |
| 02:08.50 | Wobin | Maulinrogue |
| 02:09.00 | Wobin | (these are all guildies =P) |
| 02:09.02 | Gnarfoz | I think there's a "Supermoo" tauren druid on this realm |
| 02:09.05 | mikma | the funniest part is that this all happened in same MC run |
| 02:09.39 | Wobin | I like the tauren druid named Aerbuss |
| 02:09.45 | mikma | he couldnt write his name -> made a ticket, near the end gm told the hardname-dude that hes going tto have to relog in order to change his name |
| 02:10.22 | Arrowmaster | man we never got to have fun like that in MC |
| 02:10.49 | Arrowmaster | the top for us i think was guild hoping during the raid |
| 02:10.51 | Gnarfoz | most fun we ever had in MC was some GM clearing our instance for us |
| 02:11.05 | Adys | Oo |
| 02:11.08 | Gnarfoz | because it spontaneously resetted and fully respawned when we wiped to ragnaros |
| 02:11.16 | Kalroth | Gnarfoz: <Antiarc> http://i40.tinypic.com/ej682q.jpg |
| 02:11.34 | Gnarfoz | Kalroth: classic |
| 02:11.56 | Wobin | I prefer "Salty Bawls" |
| 02:11.57 | Arrowmaster | theres a Private Parts on my server too, nightelf warrior i think |
| 02:12.08 | Wobin | see that one takes a bit more skill and time =P |
| 02:12.17 | Wobin | I should totally get the Salty title |
| 02:12.20 | Wobin | "Salty Snuusnu" |
| 02:12.24 | mikma | wobin: "Salty Seamen" is the dream of one dude in the server i am =D |
| 02:12.26 | tekkub | We've got Private Milken |
| 02:12.29 | Wobin | That would be utterly terrible |
| 02:12.36 | Arrowmaster | had a guildmate that named his DK Manjuice, he was planning to get the Salty title but was forced to rename |
| 02:12.44 | Wobin | hehe |
| 02:12.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Moleculor (n=K@pool-71-115-122-85.sangtx.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 02:13.02 | Wobin | that title is just asking for abuse =P |
| 02:13.06 | Arrowmaster | so he renamed his DK to Goatjuice |
| 02:13.07 | batrick | man so many people are getting trolled by that "Fel Reaver Path" addon request thread |
| 02:13.09 | mikma | arrowmaster: easier just to pay 8e and name it like that after =) |
| 02:13.27 | mikma | batrick: what2hat? |
| 02:13.37 | mikma | 2=w, sorry same button |
| 02:13.38 | batrick | ? |
| 02:13.54 | batrick | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=16137527030&sid=1 |
| 02:14.56 | Wobin | hehe |
| 02:14.59 | Wobin | http://www.wowdb.com/npc.aspx?id=18733 is a good link =) |
| 02:16.12 | Wobin | "Yes, I totally have the time to learn how to code stuff while taking full-time University classes and only playing WoW for fun. " |
| 02:16.15 | Wobin | <.< |
| 02:16.16 | Wobin | >.> |
| 02:16.40 | Dagmar | You wouldn't be making excuses if you were majoring in comp sci - software design |
| 02:18.31 | Wobin | " Here's to hoping someone takes up the challenge and fills your hole, cheers! " |
| 02:18.35 | Wobin | ... that sounds so dirty =P |
| 02:19.14 | Kalroth | lol |
| 02:20.08 | mikma | wobin: yeah, that address will hellp us creating the path =) |
| 02:20.21 | Wobin | mikma: It's right -there-! =) |
| 02:21.13 | *** join/#wowuidev kluge (n=dsquare@S0106001b1168ce28.va.shawcable.net) |
| 02:22.08 | mikma | wobin: yea, wait, waiiiiit, i think i can see it |
| 02:22.22 | mikma | wobin: yes, YES! i see it, it's right there! |
| 02:22.34 | Wobin | I like Dy's response |
| 02:22.49 | mikma | good link anyway, kinda lolled at the map |
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| 02:28.13 | NightHawkTheSane | okay, this is actually kind of amusing. http://www.north5.demon.co.uk/b3ta/compression.jpg |
| 02:28.41 | Arrowmaster | ok i have trolled the thread |
| 02:31.14 | Adys | lol NightHawkTheSane |
| 02:32.15 | mikma | lol troll |
| 02:33.05 | mikma | its still funny |
| 02:33.21 | mikma | a robot which is huge can still jump on you |
| 02:33.35 | mikma | dum de dum leveling ... FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUu |
| 02:33.51 | Arrowmaster | "Devilsaur gains Stealth." |
| 02:34.03 | Adys | stealthy devilsaur ! |
| 02:36.24 | Zootfizzle | Thank you so much, Arrowmaster :P |
| 02:36.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Arrowmaster: frightening |
| 02:36.43 | ScytheBlade1 | No but really... a devilsaur with stealth |
| 02:36.46 | ScytheBlade1 | That IS frightening |
| 02:36.47 | mikma | zootfizzle: ban him because of trolling! |
| 02:36.59 | mikma | you know what is frightening |
| 02:37.06 | Arrowmaster | zoot loves me too much to ban me |
| 02:37.15 | mikma | i found a .jpg where all classes re gnomes! |
| 02:37.29 | mikma | are* |
| 02:38.01 | Zootfizzle | waits for whatever is frightening. |
| 02:38.11 | Adys | ~whalefrighten Zootfizzle |
| 02:38.23 | sacarasc | Fail, Adys. |
| 02:38.24 | Zootfizzle | is still left waiting =/ |
| 02:38.25 | ScytheBlade1 | " |
| 02:38.31 | ScytheBlade1 | "Again, my problem is not that I can't see Fel Reavers coming. It's that since they don't have turn signals, I don't know which direction they're going to go once I see them." |
| 02:38.35 | Adys | ~whalewait Zootfizzle |
| 02:38.36 | ScytheBlade1 | I totally wish I could post on the forums |
| 02:38.42 | ScytheBlade1 | That line is amazing |
| 02:38.57 | mikma | zootfizzle: http://wow.reaktio.net/gnomepower2xq2.jpg |
| 02:39.07 | Dagmar | mikma: Those are Bilbi's Romance-Enhancing Goggles from Brewfest (name is probably slightly wrong) |
| 02:39.15 | Zootfizzle | Hey, I have that calendar! |
| 02:39.17 | Dagmar | mikma: All *male* gnomes, right? |
| 02:39.20 | Adys | druid one looks cute |
| 02:40.01 | mikma | dagmar: see for yourself =) |
| 02:40.16 | Dagmar | Oh, okay. Fan art then. |
| 02:40.32 | mikma | model change fan fun art |
| 02:40.39 | Adys | Bibi's Romance-Enhancing Goggles? |
| 02:40.57 | mikma | should be an enchat damnit |
| 02:40.58 | Dagmar | Adys: Yes, the gnome chick that flirts with everyone during Brewfest (Alliance-side) |
| 02:41.12 | Dagmar | Adys: I fell for it. |
| 02:41.20 | Adys | was funny wasnt it? |
| 02:41.27 | Arrowmaster | huh? |
| 02:41.32 | Bibi | fuck you Adys. |
| 02:41.35 | Adys | :D |
| 02:41.47 | Gnarfoz | I was wondering when he'd show up |
| 02:41.49 | Zootfizzle | detects enhanced romance in the channel |
| 02:41.52 | Dagmar | I put 'em on my toon and thought "Okay, so what if I used perfume during Love is in the Air... What *exactly* is Blizz trying to say about players who drink a lot of beer..." |
| 02:41.56 | Adys | ~whaleromance Zootfizzle |
| 02:42.01 | Adys | hmm |
| 02:42.07 | Adys | need to write that one. |
| 02:42.09 | Zootfizzle | I think you mean ~whaleromance Tekkub |
| 02:42.11 | mikma | is that black/orange gnome a shaman? with ragnamace |
| 02:42.19 | Gnarfoz | sure |
| 02:42.21 | tekkub | I don't like whales |
| 02:42.22 | Adys | ~whaletekkub wowuidev |
| 02:42.25 | tekkub | I like furry things |
| 02:42.26 | mikma | no, ~bearromance tekkub |
| 02:42.28 | Gnarfoz | shaman t5 |
| 02:42.35 | Zootfizzle | What about a rather hirsute whale? |
| 02:42.49 | Dagmar | Wooly Whalemoth |
| 02:42.56 | Adys | win |
| 02:44.28 | mikma | oh gee, yet again the conversation turned into bear + tekkub |
| 02:44.43 | tekkub | you people do it, not me |
| 02:44.48 | mikma | everything is linked to that |
| 02:46.50 | Adys | wheee |
| 02:46.50 | Adys | raining |
| 02:46.53 | mikma | hehe, that reminded me of Me, Myself and Irene |
| 02:47.50 | mikma | "do you people take checks?" |
| 02:48.10 | mikma | and then the dude starts beating jim with nunchucks |
| 02:48.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 02:48.25 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 02:48.39 | mikma | shhhh, he's here now |
| 02:48.55 | Adys | who? |
| 02:49.01 | Shirik | ~stab mikma |
| 02:49.01 | purl | ACTION runs at mikma with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. |
| 02:49.05 | mikma | =D |
| 02:49.06 | ScytheBlade1 | no one of importance |
| 02:49.10 | Adys | ah, ok |
| 02:49.37 | Shirik | ~kill ScytheBlade1 |
| 02:49.37 | purl | ACTION shoots a hyper-charged anti-meson gun at ScytheBlade1 |
| 02:49.47 | Zootfizzle | ~whaleponcho ScytheBlade1 |
| 02:49.48 | purl | ACTION uses the magic of nanotubes to create a whale shaped poncho around ScytheBlade1, protecting them. |
| 02:50.07 | ScytheBlade1 | ... oh man |
| 02:50.10 | ScytheBlade1 | <3 Zoot |
| 02:50.22 | Zootfizzle | NP buddy |
| 02:50.32 | Shirik | there are multiple ScytheBlade1s? |
| 02:50.39 | mikma | pffff, get a room you two |
| 02:50.42 | ScytheBlade1 | As far as you are concerned, no |
| 02:51.43 | ScytheBlade1 | .. which reminds me, I have turns to bot away |
| 02:51.53 | Shirik | not if I find you first |
| 02:52.07 | ScytheBlade1 | You are welcome to try |
| 02:53.24 | Zootfizzle | Shirik: Them is an acceptable gender neutral objective singular pronoun in English :P |
| 02:53.30 | Shirik | no it's not |
| 02:53.53 | mikma | scytheblade1: oh, i'm sensing you frowers. whats your home address? :.. ;) |
| 02:53.56 | Shirik | it's just what people seem to do because they're too lazy to use a real gender neutral pronoun |
| 02:54.01 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 02:54.04 | geargrind | not according to most english teachers |
| 02:54.09 | geargrind | but i say f 'em |
| 02:54.13 | mikma | tpyo+ |
| 02:54.35 | NightHawkTheSane | does english have a real gender neutral pronoun? |
| 02:54.42 | ScytheBlade1 | no |
| 02:54.48 | Arrowmaster | it |
| 02:54.49 | geargrind | no i'm just slow... i was agreeing with shirik |
| 02:54.51 | Dagmar | "it" |
| 02:55.02 | Dagmar | It's third-person plural that it lacks. |
| 02:55.19 | Dagmar | ...which is why the south invented "ya'll" |
| 02:55.42 | geargrind | no, that's 2nd person plural |
| 02:56.05 | Dagmar | Quiet, yankee. |
| 02:56.23 | Zootfizzle | The use of the third-person plural pronoun they to refer to a singular noun or pronoun is attested as early as 1300, according to the internet. |
| 02:56.38 | geargrind | must be true then |
| 02:56.48 | geargrind | :-) |
| 02:57.00 | Zootfizzle | conveniently fails to search for any opposing arguments, thus allowing himself ignorance of their existence :P |
| 02:58.46 | mikma | usually i just paste goatse if i fail at argument |
| 02:59.07 | Zootfizzle | I may still do that. |
| 02:59.14 | Dagmar | It was a set-up anyway |
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| 03:40.12 | kd3 | looks for some painkillers |
| 03:45.58 | mikma | kd3: stupid tornados causing headaches |
| 03:46.05 | ScytheBlade1 | kd3: I've got some lortab if you're in need |
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| 04:05.30 | Shirik | what's the generally chosen rogue leveling spec? |
| 04:05.35 | Shirik | (/tree) |
| 04:08.00 | Fisker- | hey Shirik my enemy |
| 04:08.12 | Dagmar | stunlock tree |
| 04:09.03 | Arrowmaster | i switched to sub on my rogue when i hit outland |
| 04:09.13 | Arrowmaster | but that was when cheat death was godly |
| 04:09.28 | kd3 | sigh |
| 04:09.30 | kd3 | "Just how insecure is the electric grid? Surprisingly, thanks to utility companies' insistence on providing Internet access to critical components, the answer is "disturbingly" [Scary]" |
| 04:09.43 | Dagmar | We're safe here in TN. |
| 04:10.01 | Dagmar | NES isn't bright enough to manage to get any of their stuff actually online without having to hire someone to do it for them |
| 04:10.02 | Arrowmaster | and my rogue has a HWL sword so hemo damage was good |
| 04:10.13 | kd3 | wha, the TVA's hydro plants aren't controlled over the net? |
| 04:10.20 | Dagmar | Actually no. |
| 04:10.28 | Dagmar | That stuff is still running on 586's to boot |
| 04:10.46 | Arrowmaster | hey i still have a 586 |
| 04:10.55 | Dagmar | When they need to adjust flow gates, someone actually picks up the phone and calls the remote site |
| 04:12.23 | Dagmar | You'd think they might want to push that for "modernization" but suprisingly you don't exactly need to control flow gates with low latency |
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| 04:28.45 | ReAn | http://fukung.net/v/5797/internets_large_01.jpg <--- i laugh every time |
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| 05:02.09 | NightHawkTheSane | "[Spectral Performer][Melee] hit [You] 18074 Physical. (4244 Overkill)" |
| 05:05.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Syzgyn (n=ghost429@24-178-70-94.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com) |
| 05:11.57 | Shirik | NightHawkTheSane: owned. |
| 05:12.06 | NightHawkTheSane | indeed |
| 05:12.14 | NightHawkTheSane | apparently the spotlight thing stacks for them. :P |
| 05:15.40 | Adys | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/94845374 |
| 05:24.58 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 05:25.27 | Syzgyn | kd3: Is your internet being wonky too? |
| 05:25.40 | kd3 | when is it not? |
| 05:25.46 | kd3 | at least I'm not in cali where cables got cut |
| 05:26.04 | Syzgyn | Since the storm went through I've been getting really shitty pings |
| 05:27.09 | kd3 | ya, I'm gonna be crappy for another day or two until the phone lines dry out |
| 05:27.57 | Syzgyn | T_T |
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| 05:28.30 | geargrind | hubblesite.org down for anyone else? |
| 05:28.56 | kd3 | ya, stuck at "connecting" |
| 05:29.18 | Syzgyn | Hah, downloading a file at 8.6k/s |
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| 05:42.09 | tekkub | god I love meld |
| 05:42.23 | tekkub | WTB probper mac version, none of this macport BS |
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| 06:10.42 | Shirik | *%@#(*%#@(*%!*%@!)(@%* |
| 06:10.51 | Shirik | I just missed one of the dalaran books by 2 seconds |
| 06:10.52 | Shirik | literally |
| 06:22.44 | ScytheBlade1 | curious. anyone know the current 3.0.x patch sequence? |
| 06:22.55 | ScytheBlade1 | Install --> 3.0.2 --> ??? |
| 06:25.12 | tekkub | --> profit |
| 06:25.14 | batbot | tekkub: > nil |
| 06:25.42 | haleyss | Does anyone know if blizzard has ever changed the names of the elements in their xml feeds? Or are they pretty good about keeping everything the same? |
| 06:25.47 | ScytheBlade1 | tekkub: ownt |
| 06:25.56 | ScytheBlade1 | haleyss: what XML feeds? |
| 06:26.08 | haleyss | The whole armory = xml |
| 06:26.12 | haleyss | view source on it |
| 06:26.26 | ScytheBlade1 | That isn't strictly a "feed" as a web dev would know it, though |
| 06:26.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Hence my question |
| 06:26.42 | ScytheBlade1 | With that said, they have changed it in the past, to a significant degree |
| 06:26.48 | haleyss | hehe, yeah, my appologies, xml elements on their site. :P |
| 06:26.54 | ScytheBlade1 | But they also posted news about that when they did so |
| 06:27.19 | haleyss | I see, I'm assuming their is a forum of some sort where they keep us updated? |
| 06:27.41 | ScytheBlade1 | no |
| 06:27.44 | ScytheBlade1 | None what so ever |
| 06:27.59 | Syzgyn | More like something changes and people freak out till someone discovers what got changed |
| 06:28.03 | ScytheBlade1 | The entire line that I'm referring to: "# XML file size reduction: The XML files used by the Armory have been optimized for speed, partly by streamlining the amount of code in the files. As a result, third-party sites that mine Armory data may need to make adjustments to account for the new file configurations." |
| 06:28.32 | haleyss | I see, where did you view that? |
| 06:29.01 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.wowarmory.com/updates.xml |
| 06:29.06 | ScytheBlade1 | But again |
| 06:29.25 | ScytheBlade1 | That is the full extent of "updates" we've got when it has been updated |
| 06:29.45 | haleyss | Ahh, I see, good stuff |
| 06:29.53 | ScytheBlade1 | And even then it said pretty much nothing other than "we're breaking your stuff, yo" |
| 06:30.25 | haleyss | haha, yeah, make the site somewhat OO so it shouldn't be too dificult to update |
| 06:30.32 | haleyss | just time consuming, doh |
| 06:30.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Tewan (n=quassel@ppp-70-253-76-186.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) |
| 06:30.53 | Dolby | tekkub: http://bacolicio.us/http://www.wowinterface.com |
| 06:31.23 | tekkub | riiiiiight |
| 06:31.45 | Dolby | you no like bacon? |
| 06:32.31 | Fisker- | ~kiss Fisker- |
| 06:32.32 | purl | ACTION forces Fisker- to give Kaelten a big kiss on the neck |
| 06:33.54 | tekkub | that bacon adds nothing to the site |
| 06:34.01 | tekkub | in fact it just gets in the way |
| 06:34.06 | tekkub | that's pure bacon failure |
| 06:34.39 | haleyss | haha, that's awsome dolby. :P |
| 06:35.44 | haleyss | ahh, didn't know wow interface was part of the ZAM network |
| 06:36.06 | tekkub | everything is owned by Zam |
| 06:36.24 | Syzgyn | WOOSH! ZAM! KAPOW! |
| 06:36.37 | tekkub | I have to go over here now... |
| 06:37.14 | haleyss | just wowhead, thotbott, wowinterface, and allakazam right? |
| 06:37.31 | Cairenn | and OGR |
| 06:37.33 | Cairenn | but yes |
| 06:37.53 | haleyss | read that zam bought wowhead for 1.5mil in 07 |
| 06:38.00 | ScytheBlade1 | http://omegle.com/ |
| 06:38.35 | Cairenn | haleyss: that's the rumour |
| 06:38.59 | Cairenn | although I heard it lower than that, but /shrug |
| 06:39.14 | Shirik | I can neither confirm nor deny the purchase of wowhead for 1.5 million |
| 06:39.56 | haleyss | wowhead is crazy, I think it's in the top 900 web sites visited in the US |
| 06:40.47 | Fisker- | As far as i know it was 1 million |
| 06:40.53 | Fisker- | and the guy who made it said it himself |
| 06:41.04 | haleyss | haha, either way, I'm sure he's happy |
| 06:41.06 | Fisker- | i.e. skosiris |
| 06:41.29 | haleyss | Does he still work on the site? |
| 06:41.42 | Fisker- | dunno |
| 06:47.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Rincewind` (n=Rince@WoWUIDev/Norganna/QA-Engineer/Rincewind) |
| 06:48.15 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 06:56.51 | *** join/#wowuidev OpenSorce (n=OpenSorc@216.47.200.180) |
| 06:57.46 | OpenSorce | I have simple mod written in LUA that I want to only work for members of my guild, is there a way to make it check the guild name before it will work? |
| 06:57.49 | krka | OpenSorce: LUA, what's that? Did you mean to say Lua? ;-) |
| 06:58.00 | OpenSorce | lol, bots are awesome |
| 06:58.08 | OpenSorce | yes, Lua :-) |
| 06:58.21 | OpenSorce | Anyone? |
| 07:00.06 | Cairenn | only release it on your guild's website? ;-) |
| 07:00.10 | OpenSorce | I'm digging through the tutorial at http://www.wowwiki.com/World_of_Warcraft_API is there somewhere else I should look? |
| 07:00.31 | OpenSorce | Definately, but I'm more worried about people we kick out :-) |
| 07:01.07 | NightHawkTheSane | there's a few things you can do, but it's really just smoke and mirrors. Anyone with a rudimentary ability to read/edit code would be able to bypass it |
| 07:01.20 | OpenSorce | It's just a silly language mod, but I really don't want every troll on the server using it. I'd like it to check to ensure they are a guild member |
| 07:01.46 | OpenSorce | Night , yeah I know.....anyone could edit it if they wanted |
| 07:01.53 | OpenSorce | stupid nick complete |
| 07:03.04 | OpenSorce | and if it does get bypassed (which it might eventually) there's a simple change I can make then just have everyone grab the newest verion |
| 07:03.09 | OpenSorce | *version |
| 07:05.07 | OpenSorce | IsInGuild()....name of the guild in parenthises? |
| 07:05.52 | OpenSorce | night, anyone else? |
| 07:06.11 | Cairenn | points up to her suggestion |
| 07:06.39 | OpenSorce | Yes.....Cairenn.....did you see my response to your suggestion? |
| 07:06.51 | Cairenn | ah, sorry, no I missed that |
| 07:06.54 | OpenSorce | :-) |
| 07:07.25 | Cairenn | I'm sure there must be some sort of an "if then else" statement you can put in |
| 07:07.42 | Cairenn | I just don't know what it is, and as NightHawkTheSane says, it's easily circumvented |
| 07:08.00 | OpenSorce | right....okay :-) |
| 07:08.08 | NightHawkTheSane | as the API clearly notes, IsInGuild takes no parameters and only returns whether the player is in a guild or not. |
| 07:08.40 | OpenSorce | See.....I want to keep idiots from using it. Idiots won't know to edit it or how to edit it. |
| 07:09.04 | NightHawkTheSane | GetGuildInfo would be the method to check WHAT a player's guild is. |
| 07:09.35 | OpenSorce | and then a "if "GUILD" = "guildname" then" |
| 07:09.47 | NightHawkTheSane | something like that. |
| 07:11.14 | OpenSorce | Yeah, I'm asking anyone to research for me.....I just hoped someone who is more versed in Lua would know off the top of their head |
| 07:11.22 | OpenSorce | *I'm not asking.... |
| 07:11.57 | NightHawkTheSane | ~wowprogramming |
| 07:11.58 | purl | World of Warcraft Programming: A Guide and Reference for Creating WoW Addons ~ http://tinyurl.com/5hnxob ~ a book written by Cladhaire, Cogwheel and Kaelten, or the companion site and API reference available online for free at http://wowprogramming.com |
| 07:12.09 | NightHawkTheSane | the API reference there is quite good. |
| 07:12.12 | NightHawkTheSane | ~lua |
| 07:12.13 | purl | rumour has it, lua is a powerful light-weight programming language designed for extending applications. It is often used as a configuration language. See http://www.lua.org/. Note: Lua is not an acronym. It is the Portuguese word for "moon". |
| 07:12.15 | NightHawkTheSane | ~pil |
| 07:12.15 | purl | Programming in Lua, a book written by the authors of the Lua programming language. The first edition is available free online at http://www.lua.org/pil and covers Lua 5.0. The second edition is available in print from most online bookstores, and covers Lua 5.1. |
| 07:12.33 | OpenSorce | Thanks :-) |
| 07:12.37 | NightHawkTheSane | and the lua website is excellent for learning basic lua |
| 07:12.48 | OpenSorce | I think I just figured it out though...... |
| 07:13.10 | OpenSorce | Oh wait, no that wouldn't work |
| 07:14.22 | OpenSorce | It joins a channel to perform the translation functions, I was thinking if a made it uses the "GUILD" variable as part of the channel name it would work. But that would make the mod still work just perform the translations in a different channel |
| 07:14.49 | OpenSorce | The would still be able to use it but not read what we say.....which might not be a bad solution actually |
| 07:15.33 | OpenSorce | of course they can hack the mod and force it to join our translation channel and fix it |
| 07:15.59 | NightHawkTheSane | (just a tip, you're never really going to get away from the "they can just hack the mod to..." problem) |
| 07:17.30 | OpenSorce | No, of course not |
| 07:17.50 | Fisker- | ~kiss Fisker- |
| 07:17.51 | purl | ACTION forces Fisker- to give Mr_Rabies a big kiss on the ear |
| 07:18.10 | OpenSorce | But, considering it's more of a novelty than anything I think it should be fine like it is |
| 07:19.44 | *** join/#wowuidev dbguy (i=dbguy@nblzone-226-241.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 07:20.07 | OpenSorce | I could always password the channel it joins......except that puts the translation text in the users chat window which is very very bad |
| 07:20.33 | dbguy | Hey. How would one delete/destroy/free a frame once it is no longer used? Somehow I'm not finding anything on wowwiki. Apparently frame = {} does not work |
| 07:21.21 | NightHawkTheSane | you cannot destroy a frame |
| 07:21.38 | dbguy | So once you create a frame the memory will always be there until you logout? |
| 07:21.42 | NightHawkTheSane | or, more specifically, frames cannot be GCd |
| 07:21.45 | dbguy | (or reload ui) |
| 07:21.47 | NightHawkTheSane | until logout or reloadui, y es |
| 07:21.53 | dbguy | ow |
| 07:26.30 | *** part/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-053.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 07:40.38 | Jamash | so if you're generating a lot of frames, you should re-use them |
| 07:46.09 | Cairenn | out of curiosity, OpenSorce, what is it "translating"? |
| 07:52.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Drayk (n=quassel@ppp-70-253-76-186.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) |
| 08:12.12 | Jamash | anyone know offhand if there's a Lua library for parsing macros? |
| 08:17.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Aeyan| (n=pancake@cpe-071-076-230-073.triad.res.rr.com) |
| 08:21.09 | Shirik | a lua library for parsing macros? |
| 08:21.11 | OpenSorce | Sorry.....was afk....it's like another language |
| 08:21.14 | Shirik | There's.... the Blizzard code |
| 08:21.22 | Shirik | OpenSorce: "another language"? |
| 08:21.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@c155111.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 08:21.37 | OpenSorce | I was answering Cairenn |
| 08:21.47 | Shirik | ~dict translate |
| 08:21.53 | Shirik | ... |
| 08:21.57 | Shirik | ~dict 2 translate |
| 08:22.01 | Shirik | fu purl |
| 08:22.04 | Shirik | ~dict 3 translate |
| 08:22.09 | Shirik | There we go |
| 08:22.22 | Shirik | OpenSorce, as you can tell, your statement was mostly meaningless, as the definition of translating is "to another language" |
| 08:22.27 | Cairenn | OpenSorce: okay, what I'm trying to ask is "what is this 'other language' that you are trying to 'translate'? " |
| 08:23.07 | Fisker- | ~kiss Shirik |
| 08:23.08 | purl | ACTION forces Shirik to give cbreak a big kiss on the ear |
| 08:23.14 | OpenSorce | It's a made up language. The purpose is purely for entertainment. Basically it scrambles whatever you say and anyone without the mod sees gibberish |
| 08:23.21 | Cairenn | OpenSorce: okay |
| 08:23.44 | Cairenn | just making sure that it won't violate the "translate alliance to horde or vice versa" |
| 08:23.55 | OpenSorce | hehe, no....doesn't work that |
| 08:23.57 | OpenSorce | way |
| 08:24.00 | Cairenn | good |
| 08:24.54 | Jamash | Shirik: I mean to parse macros so that they can be analyzed by addon code, not so they can be executed |
| 08:25.22 | OpenSorce | Okay, well I think I figured it out anyway thanks for your input guys :-) |
| 08:25.32 | Jamash | I have a scanner that looks for abilities that aren't on the player's action bars, but it misses any ability that's macroed |
| 08:26.02 | Jamash | so I'm considering scanning through the player's active set of macros |
| 08:27.24 | OpenSorce | Oh and Skirik, no one needs you to point out the definition of words in the English language. I'm sure I was speaking it while you were in diapers. I find it hard to believe they gave a troll like you ops. buh-bye now |
| 08:29.13 | dbguy | open sores heh; that guy seemed pretty mad |
| 08:42.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Vangual (n=bah@pdpc/supporter/active/vangual) |
| 09:09.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Spellbinder (i=Spellbin@ua-83-227-160-168.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 09:28.14 | Shirik | makes a mental note not to help him in the future |
| 09:31.31 | Fisker- | cries |
| 09:33.07 | Fisker- | threatens Shirik |
| 09:34.49 | Zootfizzle | ~whalenuke Fisker- |
| 09:34.49 | purl | ACTION dons her radiation cloak and tinted glasses while a highly intelligent whale named Ray precipitates critical mass for uncontrolled nuclear fission around Fisker- with his mind powers. |
| 09:35.00 | Zootfizzle | BUSH DOCTRINED |
| 09:35.22 | Zootfizzle | wanders back off to sleep |
| 09:36.48 | *** join/#wowuidev batbot (n=batbot@batbytes.com) |
| 09:40.08 | dbguy | Are there any women here today? |
| 09:42.01 | *** join/#wowuidev batbot (n=batbot@batbytes.com) |
| 09:46.22 | Shirik | what kind of question is that, dbguy |
| 09:46.56 | Jamash | he needs to test an addon that only works for women |
| 09:47.02 | Shirik | .. what? |
| 09:47.08 | Cairenn | it's the night for crazies, I guess? |
| 09:47.14 | Jamash | I'm guessing? |
| 09:47.23 | dbguy | Cairenn! |
| 09:47.54 | Kemayo | If there any girls here, I wanna do them! |
| 09:48.20 | Cairenn | dbguy: answer shirik? |
| 09:48.38 | Cairenn | I find myself curious as to the answer as well |
| 09:49.02 | dbguy | Oh, no, I was just wondering. It's always nicer in a room with girls in it. |
| 09:49.19 | Jamash | boggles. |
| 09:49.19 | Zootfizzle | facepalms |
| 09:49.44 | Jamash | Zootfizzle: I thought you were asleep. |
| 09:49.59 | Zootfizzle | The best laid plans of mice and gnomes... |
| 09:56.26 | *** join/#wowuidev d87 (n=x@host89-251-107-29.hnet.ru) |
| 09:58.15 | Cairenn | okay, well, this chicky needs some sleep, night guys |
| 09:58.25 | Jamash | 'night Cairenn |
| 09:59.05 | Adys | Shirik: no but he had a point |
| 09:59.19 | Shirik | huh? |
| 09:59.36 | Adys | Shirik: ~dicting and habbits like that are rude |
| 09:59.52 | Adys | he wasnt being impolite or anything |
| 09:59.55 | Shirik | The internet is not made of fairies and pixie dust |
| 10:00.12 | Adys | that doesnt mean you have to be one of the jerks if you can avoid it |
| 10:00.25 | Adys | eg. dont be surprised he gets pissed at you |
| 10:00.47 | Shirik | whatever |
| 10:00.52 | Shirik | not doing this at 6 AM |
| 10:00.59 | Adys | Im pointing it out |
| 10:02.24 | Adys | Im sure you've been in a chan where people are right away being rude and macro/botting your questions, eventually getting you something unrelated and should you ask again, will tell you to rtfa rather than re-read the question themselves |
| 10:02.41 | Adys | Im in 3 of those chans right now and its pissful |
| 10:02.46 | Adys | dont make it a fourth |
| 10:03.00 | Jamash | my internet is made of fairies and pixie dust, I don't know what internet you're on |
| 10:03.23 | Shirik | no, Adys, but there are certain questions which trigger a specific response |
| 10:03.25 | Zootfizzle | makes some popcorn |
| 10:03.34 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o aesir] by Shirik |
| 10:03.36 | Adys | ~whalepopcorn Zootfizzle |
| 10:03.37 | Shirik | oops |
| 10:03.40 | Shirik | how did I do that |
| 10:03.44 | *** mode/#wowuidev [-o aesir] by Shirik |
| 10:03.53 | Jamash | shoots Zootfizzle with a Gnomish Sleep Ray. |
| 10:03.55 | Adys | Shirik: you clicked the +o button |
| 10:03.59 | Shirik | no |
| 10:04.04 | Shirik | there is no +o button |
| 10:04.05 | Adys | Shirik: you typed /op |
| 10:04.08 | Shirik | no |
| 10:04.15 | Adys | well fuck you you op'd him |
| 10:04.17 | Shirik | no to whatever you're about to say |
| 10:04.17 | Zootfizzle | No effect due to hyperexposure :P |
| 10:04.28 | Adys | Shirik: TOO LATE i already said it |
| 10:11.36 | Fisker- | ~kiss Fisker- |
| 10:11.37 | purl | ACTION forces Fisker- to give aesir a big kiss on the lips |
| 10:11.47 | Fisker- | wtf |
| 10:11.50 | Fisker- | aesir is haxing |
| 10:12.23 | aesir | am not |
| 10:13.40 | *** join/#wowuidev jnwhiteh_ (i=4f21ca4b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-61e08db0abcdad37) |
| 10:13.53 | Fisker- | jnwhiteh_ |
| 10:14.00 | jnwhiteh_ | Fisker- |
| 10:14.12 | Fisker- | why so fake? |
| 10:14.40 | jnwhiteh_ | why so Fisker-? |
| 10:14.49 | Fisker- | no u? |
| 10:14.55 | jnwhiteh_ | lua> return "still here" |
| 10:14.55 | lua_bot | jnwhiteh_: still here |
| 10:14.58 | jnwhiteh_ | k k |
| 10:15.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (n=legorol@stud-nat-blk12.trin.cam.ac.uk) |
| 10:15.06 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 10:15.09 | jnwhiteh_ | i'm realz |
| 10:15.11 | jnwhiteh_ | just in italy |
| 10:15.31 | Jamash | when in rome, eat spaghetti |
| 10:16.08 | *** join/#wowuidev tf3551b (n=nnscript@cm116113.red83-165.mundo-r.com) |
| 10:16.09 | jnwhiteh_ | when is tuscany, eat tuscans! |
| 10:18.49 | Fisker- | damnit |
| 10:19.01 | Fisker- | why do i never receieve those orders of viagra i keep getting mails about? :/ |
| 10:21.10 | Shirik | ... |
| 10:25.33 | Jamash | the mailman steals them |
| 10:27.04 | *** part/#wowuidev jnwhiteh_ (i=4f21ca4b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-61e08db0abcdad37) |
| 10:27.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Fatalus (n=gaben@68-188-68-189.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 10:44.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Robsato (i=5065af6a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-440524eb576e6392) |
| 10:55.38 | Adys | anyone with a mekgineers chopper? |
| 11:17.24 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 11:19.30 | *** join/#wowuidev JackBurton7676 (n=JackBurt@81.90.21.227) |
| 11:20.08 | JackBurton7676 | fighting shadow knights is hawd. |
| 11:20.11 | JackBurton7676 | whats their weakness? |
| 11:20.34 | JackBurton7676 | death knights even |
| 11:39.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Aelobin (n=Aelobin@88-109-33-116.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 11:41.06 | Adys | some thottbot comment |
| 11:41.10 | Adys | "nethercarrot on a stick" |
| 11:51.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraftman (n=kraftman@89-168-133-153.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 12:08.43 | Legorol | JackBurton7676: range. Get to range, wait for death grip, then snare them (frost nova, hamstring, any slow effects) and get to range again |
| 12:09.32 | nevcairiel | except that they are good at snaring too |
| 12:34.10 | Fisker- | slaps nevcairiel around a bit with a large trout |
| 12:34.21 | Legorol | nevcairiel is right |
| 12:34.28 | nevcairiel | you call that a trout? |
| 12:34.45 | Legorol | trying to kill a DK is hard |
| 12:34.49 | Legorol | i know because i'm one :) |
| 12:35.18 | Legorol | the thing that can catch me offguard is if people suddenly focus on me when i don't have a frost rune ready |
| 12:35.36 | Legorol | maybe if you get an addon that tracks your enemies' rune use, it could help? |
| 12:35.48 | nevcairiel | nerfs inc quite soon |
| 12:36.04 | Legorol | i couldn't care less about pvp nerfs, i don't pvp :o) |
| 12:36.18 | Legorol | and of the pve nerfs + buffs, i am not really affected by the nerfs, but benefit from the buffs |
| 12:36.21 | Legorol | pure win |
| 12:37.02 | Legorol | i'll miss shadow of death :( |
| 12:37.12 | Legorol | awesome tanking talent, prevented many wipes |
| 12:37.27 | Legorol | best part about it is that whilst you are transforming to ghoul, you are immune to all damage, but still retain aggro |
| 12:38.08 | nevcairiel | that gives you what, 4 seconds until the boss one hits you? =P |
| 12:38.22 | nevcairiel | its a silly talent |
| 12:38.26 | Legorol | actually nope, because you retain a bunch of your sta/def |
| 12:38.33 | Legorol | the ghoul form is quite resilient |
| 12:38.41 | Legorol | i can't see the stats but the healer can usually still keep me up |
| 12:38.49 | Legorol | the only issue is threat |
| 12:40.29 | dbguy | can others heal you while you're in ghoul form? |
| 12:40.39 | Legorol | yes |
| 12:40.44 | dbguy | oh ok.. |
| 12:41.09 | Legorol | i had several occasions when people didn't notice i died and turned into a ghoul |
| 12:41.17 | nevcairiel | you're still pretty low on stats, if its some real fight, it won't help you for a second |
| 12:41.23 | Legorol | 10 seconds after the fight ends, ghoul form expires and i die properly |
| 12:41.31 | Legorol | people go: "wtf happened to you?" |
| 12:41.42 | nevcairiel | and if you die in the first place, there is something wrong =P |
| 12:41.54 | Legorol | well yes |
| 12:42.03 | Legorol | obviousy this is not an ability for regular tanking :) |
| 12:42.12 | Legorol | i'm just saying that it prevented a few wipes in my lifetime |
| 12:43.02 | Wobin | this is true |
| 12:43.20 | Fisker- | hey Wobin |
| 12:43.24 | Fisker- | you're awesome |
| 12:43.24 | Wobin | I hated how it wouldn't suddenly proc though |
| 12:43.44 | Fisker- | shadow of death is awesome |
| 12:43.52 | Fisker- | 20 seconds of /rofl'ing at the dead death knight |
| 12:44.20 | Wobin | til he hugs you and self explodes =) |
| 12:44.35 | Wobin | Shadow of Death has saved me soooo much in repair bills during my levelling |
| 12:44.54 | nevcairiel | you died leveling? |
| 12:44.58 | nevcairiel | you're a bad death knight =( |
| 12:45.03 | Wobin | in instances =P |
| 12:45.11 | Legorol | if you never die, you are not pushing yourself enough |
| 12:45.11 | Fisker- | problem officer? |
| 12:45.27 | Wobin | Legorol: it's easy to faceroll levelling a DK |
| 12:45.37 | Wobin | unfortunately |
| 12:45.51 | nevcairiel | If you just level the proper order of zones, you'll always be like one or two levels ahead |
| 12:45.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@host81-157-157-109.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:46.05 | nevcairiel | and virtually never die, unless you try to solo one of the harder 5mans |
| 12:46.10 | nevcairiel | of which there are like 3 or 4 =P |
| 12:46.20 | Wobin | but really, I never died except in Icecrown |
| 12:46.25 | Wobin | for those 5mans |
| 12:46.43 | Wobin | DB was easy |
| 12:47.08 | Wobin | I just remember that one boss in Icecrown, that hangs around the really deep hole |
| 12:47.24 | Wobin | I've killed him multiple times, by kiting him in circles for about 5minutes =P |
| 12:47.49 | Wobin | It's utterly ridiculous, but so much fun |
| 12:47.59 | nevcairiel | I tried that with my druid, didnt really have that man kiting tools =( |
| 12:48.02 | nevcairiel | *many |
| 12:48.06 | Wobin | yeah =( |
| 12:48.16 | Wobin | You -need- the speed buff unholy presence gives you |
| 12:48.26 | Wobin | (or the aura, I guess) |
| 12:48.42 | Wobin | then it's just icy touch/howling blast |
| 12:48.46 | Wobin | over and over and over =P |
| 12:48.50 | Wobin | while you strafe in a circle =) |
| 12:49.06 | Wobin | he's unfortunately unslowable =( |
| 12:49.21 | nevcairiel | would be too easy otherwise =P |
| 12:49.25 | Wobin | truedat |
| 12:49.28 | foxlit | bloodbane? |
| 12:49.30 | nevcairiel | every class with a snare could kite him |
| 12:49.34 | Wobin | yeah, that's the one I think |
| 12:49.46 | Wobin | he's got some terribly painful attacks if they connect |
| 12:49.55 | Wobin | and if you don't have a healer handy... |
| 12:50.04 | foxlit | Even with a healer, it's a pain |
| 12:50.13 | nevcairiel | yeah i skipped him when loremaster'ing icecrown |
| 12:50.33 | foxlit | In leveling gear, healers will run out of mana before you dps him down unless you bring more people. |
| 12:51.19 | Fisker- | Are you threatening me master jedi? |
| 12:51.25 | nevcairiel | we 2 manned the arena event in northern icecrow with me being feral (half naxx10 epic already) and some 79 boomking that healed in totally crappy gear |
| 12:51.28 | nevcairiel | that was so close |
| 12:51.50 | foxlit | that arena was generally the weaker one of the... three? |
| 12:52.03 | Wobin | dunno |
| 12:52.07 | Wobin | it's tougher than the Grizzlyhills one |
| 12:52.25 | foxlit | The GH one is horde-only? |
| 12:52.29 | nevcairiel | grizzly has an arena? |
| 12:52.32 | Wobin | oh really? |
| 12:52.35 | Wobin | poor alliance |
| 12:52.48 | Wobin | they don't have a third arena? |
| 12:53.08 | foxlit | nothing alliance-specific. |
| 12:53.13 | Wobin | That's a pity |
| 12:53.15 | Wobin | that one is fun |
| 12:53.21 | nevcairiel | where is it there? |
| 12:53.26 | foxlit | conquest hold |
| 12:53.29 | Wobin | in conquest hold |
| 12:53.38 | foxlit | (which should give a pretty solid hint as to its faction preference) |
| 12:53.41 | nevcairiel | ah thats why i havent seen it |
| 12:53.42 | Wobin | hehe |
| 12:53.48 | Wobin | You have to do a few quests first |
| 12:53.55 | Wobin | then it unlocks |
| 12:54.00 | Wobin | and advances the story |
| 12:54.03 | nevcairiel | i have no horde char above level 5 |
| 12:54.40 | Wobin | You should come hordeside |
| 12:54.43 | Wobin | we're much nicer =P |
| 12:54.51 | nevcairiel | you have fisker |
| 12:54.52 | nevcairiel | no deal |
| 12:55.01 | Wobin | He doesn't count |
| 12:55.07 | Wobin | we ignore him anyway |
| 12:55.50 | Fisker- | i'm not horde |
| 12:56.14 | foxlit | This just in: Fisker- head of his own faction group. |
| 12:56.39 | foxlit | (which would make him a racial leader... let's go camp his corpse for great honor.) |
| 12:56.58 | Wobin | He's of the mudkip faction |
| 12:57.12 | zenzelezz | Fisker-, king of murlocs |
| 13:01.24 | Fisker- | you don't get honor from leaders anyways |
| 13:01.24 | Fisker- | also |
| 13:01.31 | Fisker- | i'm blood elf not mudkip |
| 13:01.42 | Wobin | that's what they all say |
| 13:01.59 | Wobin | but all belfs are descended from mudkips |
| 13:03.18 | sacarasc | Truth. |
| 13:04.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@host86-145-163-77.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) |
| 13:04.29 | Fisker- | Silvermoon city was just a setback |
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| 13:11.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
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| 13:12.59 | Cide- | damn you, Cairenn|afk |
| 13:14.15 | Cide- | pm |
| 13:14.17 | *** part/#wowuidev Cide- (i=3c30d1a7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f01865fd422d0586) |
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| 13:15.16 | nevcairiel | cide is so weird |
| 13:22.27 | Fisker- | do what you want cause a pirate is free |
| 13:26.16 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 13:29.11 | *** join/#wowuidev kluge (n=dsquare@S0106001b1168ce28.va.shawcable.net) |
| 13:30.17 | WobWork | You are a pirate! |
| 13:30.54 | foxlit | or are you? |
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| 13:31.30 | WobWork | you clearly need to lazytown more =P |
| 13:31.52 | WobWork | off to read Imager and go to bed |
| 13:32.00 | *** join/#wowuidev JackBurton7676 (n=JackBurt@81.90.21.227) |
| 13:32.36 | foxlit | too lazy for lazytown! |
| 13:34.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Floo (i=Flowy@91.148.2.183) |
| 13:34.47 | Floo | if I have any tables in options.ini can I add this file into .toc ? |
| 13:36.00 | foxlit | Probably not. |
| 13:36.24 | foxlit | Extension is probably used to determine what to do with the file, so ".ini" would probably not be helpful |
| 13:37.46 | Floo | I have addon that uses options.ini - in .toc is .xml file and there is <Script file="Options.ini"/> |
| 13:37.59 | Floo | then I must use xml? |
| 13:42.25 | nevcairiel | Well that would load the Options.ini as a Lua script file |
| 13:42.33 | nevcairiel | but you could aswell name it Options.lua |
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| 13:47.53 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (n=spode@85.134.127.203) |
| 13:52.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (i=738440c9@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c75601775e4cbce8) |
| 13:53.21 | Cide- | hi |
| 13:53.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-69-204-134-64.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 13:53.40 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 13:54.31 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Cide-] by ChanServ |
| 14:03.52 | Cide- | hi |
| 14:03.59 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, dear. |
| 14:04.35 | Cide- | morning |
| 14:04.58 | Cide- | so not used to be on this side of morning |
| 14:06.17 | Lopeppeppy | Me either. Help me find some motivation, I have crap to do and noooooooo desire to do it. |
| 14:07.18 | dbguy | So, uh, anyone played with this Player/DressUp/Model thing? I can set the model as such: model:SetModel( "file\\name\\in\\the\\mpq" ) but it'll come out as pure white, untextured. Is there any way to apply a texture on the model? |
| 14:11.55 | Lopeppeppy | I'm not 100% sure what you're talking about, dbguy, so no... You're dressing your paper doll character pane, or trying to modify the actual models themselves? |
| 14:12.20 | dbguy | FrameXML stuff, I'm making a DressUpModel frame |
| 14:12.35 | dbguy | I can view models on it with :SetModel(filename), but they all come out as untextured |
| 14:12.52 | Lopeppeppy | So you're messing with the paper doll character frame? |
| 14:13.06 | dbguy | Well not *the* character frame, but another one |
| 14:13.21 | dbguy | so in practice, yes |
| 14:13.52 | Lopeppeppy | I guess it's still not clear to me what you're doing. Here's why I'm trying to be clear. I think that modifying the paper doll comes under the UI, so it's okay. Modifying regular other models is NOT under the UI, and therefore not okay, and not something to talk about. |
| 14:13.54 | dbguy | :SetUnit(unitName) works (e.g. "player" or "target"), however the unit name is not always in my disposal, or the unit may not always be near me |
| 14:14.09 | dbguy | Lopeppeppy: No. I am not modifying models. |
| 14:14.33 | dbguy | I am just trying to VIEW models (player models in fact) |
| 14:15.06 | dbguy | Much like you would in the Character Frame or the Inspect dialog, but when you Inspect someone it requires you to have the unit targeted |
| 14:15.27 | dbguy | However, I'd like to view the model while the unit is not targeted (i.e. if I know the character's race I can load up the specific model) |
| 14:15.37 | Lopeppeppy | Okay. Sounds like you're trying to modify the paper doll of other players? I know some PvP mods used to do that, I'm not sure if it can even be done anymore with the changes to inspect and stuff. |
| 14:15.45 | dbguy | No! |
| 14:15.51 | Lopeppeppy | How does... is it Xuxana's Model Citizen? ... do it. |
| 14:16.29 | dbguy | I want to view any race's model anywhere, even if I'm alone in Darnassus I could pull up a model of King Bronze Magnibeard or whatever his name was |
| 14:16.36 | Lopeppeppy | I think with those addons you only get the model if you have them targeted or in party or whatever, not just randomly without target. |
| 14:16.37 | dbguy | (except for player models not NPCs) |
| 14:16.57 | dbguy | Lopeppeppy: well I can get the model alright, but it's plain white shaded model without a texture |
| 14:17.02 | Lopeppeppy | Hmm... but those addons would be a place to start, see how they do their displays. |
| 14:17.09 | dbguy | alright, I'll check |
| 14:17.15 | dbguy | thanks |
| 14:17.55 | Lopeppeppy | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info4224-TargetModel.html |
| 14:18.44 | Lopeppeppy | http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/zmob-db-advanced5.aspx |
| 14:19.07 | dbguy | zmob seems interesting.. |
| 14:20.48 | Lopeppeppy | There are others out there, check the unit frames sections of the addon sites. |
| 14:25.06 | dbguy | Well zmob (as you'd expect from a unit frame addon) seems to rely on target or mouseover data |
| 14:25.22 | dbguy | That of course works with :SetUnit() no problem |
| 14:28.06 | Fisker- | haha |
| 14:28.11 | Fisker- | fail ghostcrawler is fail |
| 14:28.23 | Fisker- | In this case, so many groups already had Sarth on farm and the solution would have involved hitting group dps pretty severely that a quick fix didn't feel warranted. |
| 14:28.32 | Fisker- | Pro-tip: Make Sartharion enrage if drakes are still alive |
| 14:28.54 | Fisker- | Definitely hotfixable, and fixes the problem without messing with the dps |
| 14:28.56 | Fisker- | i lol'd |
| 14:52.54 | Legorol | Fisker-: that'd be a complicated mechanic to introduce that will potentially bring a bunch of bugs |
| 14:53.48 | Legorol | also, it'd make it impossible to kill Sarth legitimately by properly OT-ing the drakes and just not bothering to kill them |
| 14:54.13 | Legorol | which in theory is a perfectly valid way to kill him (even if it's hard to do atm) |
| 14:55.06 | nevcairiel | its not hard, you just need some dps |
| 14:55.18 | nevcairiel | the "legit" way requires alot more work |
| 15:03.15 | Fisker- | Legorol nope |
| 15:03.23 | Lopeppeppy | Ta, guys! |
| 15:03.26 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-69-204-134-64.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 15:03.36 | Fisker- | If someone can successfully tank the drakes, then they can successfully tank sartharion as well |
| 15:03.53 | Fisker- | And it's not an issue until next expansion anyways |
| 15:03.58 | Fisker- | and probably not even there |
| 15:04.33 | nevcairiel | if sartharion enrages on say 20%, they would just start kiting him instead of the drake =P |
| 15:05.01 | Fisker- | increase runspeed |
| 15:05.10 | Fisker- | though i'm pretty sure it wouldn't be a problem |
| 15:05.21 | Fisker- | Because the second drake would make him immune before they got him down even if they kited him |
| 15:07.07 | foxlit | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=16137219939&sid=1 poor Peppy |
| 15:07.27 | Fisker- | haha |
| 15:07.35 | Fisker- | http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=8704650928#1 |
| 15:07.37 | Fisker- | Me > Peppy |
| 15:08.05 | nevcairiel | peppy didnt notice its a keylogger/porn post? |
| 15:12.10 | Fisker- | i want to be a demigod |
| 15:14.09 | Zootfizzle | Thanks foxlit :) |
| 15:14.40 | Zootfizzle | Unfortunately I can't delete the wow-europe one =/ |
| 15:16.04 | dbguy | so Zootfizzle really works at blizzard? |
| 15:16.28 | dbguy | I found some really old chat logs from the time when Zootfizzle got to intern at blizz |
| 15:16.39 | Stanzilla | he's teh caretaker |
| 15:17.38 | nevcairiel | Zootfizzle: do you have any insight if we poor EU people can post over at the "cool" UI forums once the battle.net account merges are working for us? |
| 15:17.42 | Zootfizzle | would like to see these chatlogs, as he'd never used the name Zootfizzle before he got his current position :) |
| 15:18.23 | dbguy | actually they aren't all that old and I found them on google by accident : they're from a year ago |
| 15:18.28 | dbguy | http://ibot.rikers.org/%23wowuidev/20080506.html.gz search for your name |
| 15:18.31 | Zootfizzle | nevcairiel: No clue, sorry! |
| 15:19.48 | Zootfizzle | Ahh, that was Guillotine, not me :) |
| 15:19.58 | Fisker- | second batch of viagra sent today |
| 15:20.09 | dbguy | oh ahh oh! sorry, I misread Zootfizzle |
| 15:20.20 | Fisker- | Why can't you delete the EU ones? |
| 15:20.57 | Zootfizzle | For the same reason EU posters don't have access to the US forums |
| 15:21.24 | nevcairiel | because you hate us? :( |
| 15:21.27 | Fisker- | Yeah but sometimes you've seen blues from US suddenly pop up on the EU boards |
| 15:21.33 | Fisker- | like in the middle of the night |
| 15:21.50 | Zootfizzle | I'm flattered you think I'm that important :D |
| 15:21.58 | nevcairiel | they probably bribed someone to get an account |
| 15:22.06 | Fisker- | I actually figured any dev would have that access |
| 15:22.07 | nevcairiel | i hear frenchies are easy to bribe |
| 15:22.14 | Fisker- | nevcairiel yeah while they're sleeping sure |
| 15:22.14 | Fisker- | :D |
| 15:22.41 | dbguy | Zootfizzle: .. well does Guillotine still work at blizz? |
| 15:23.40 | nevcairiel | I would totally apply for an internship at blizz, if i lived anywhere near their HQ =/ |
| 15:25.30 | Fisker- | no internships on blizzard"! |
| 15:25.35 | Fisker- | Atleast not EU |
| 15:27.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (n=nnchatzi@d64-180-70-86.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 15:27.24 | Zootfizzle | I've never known a druid who actually worked, they usually just sit around and play with flowers |
| 15:27.42 | nevcairiel | I would want to intern on software dev, not customer support or something silly like blizz eu does :D |
| 15:28.39 | nevcairiel | Hey, we're a hard working folk! No hate on druids! |
| 15:29.52 | nevcairiel | Anyway, time for some dinner |
| 15:36.07 | Fisker- | shall we play a game? |
| 15:36.24 | mikma | druid-love <3 |
| 15:58.30 | *** join/#wowuidev spode- (n=spode@85.134.127.203) |
| 16:13.19 | airtonix | why does carbonite cause wow to crash every half hour? |
| 16:14.07 | Jamash | you have to donate to get the non-crashing version (KIDDING) |
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| 16:28.26 | ScytheBlade1 | http://notalwaysright.com/a-blasphemer-in-the-church-of-chocolate/1799 |
| 16:32.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide- (i=738440c9@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f9f76459f574916d) |
| 16:36.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Mysticell (n=nick@cpe-65-189-203-242.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 16:40.23 | Fisker- | seduces ScytheBlade1 |
| 16:40.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Doesn't quite work that way |
| 16:41.09 | Fisker- | oh yes it does |
| 16:42.22 | Fisker- | marries ScytheBlade1 |
| 16:42.26 | Fisker- | worked just fine see? |
| 16:42.58 | ScytheBlade1 | .... kinda! |
| 16:43.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Just not quite! |
| 16:43.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=muffins@c-71-197-12-179.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 16:57.06 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 16:59.14 | Tuller | merge merge merge |
| 17:00.23 | cncfanatics | \o/ (mostly) done installing gentoo |
| 17:01.06 | ScytheBlade1 | nice |
| 17:01.10 | ScytheBlade1 | What CPU do you have? |
| 17:01.40 | cncfanatics | Core 2 8100 |
| 17:01.45 | cncfanatics | why ? oO |
| 17:01.49 | ScytheBlade1 | That's not too bad |
| 17:01.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Because you're compiling gentoo :) |
| 17:01.59 | cncfanatics | ah hehe |
| 17:02.23 | cncfanatics | gentoo might be slow as fuck to compile, but once its done its lightning fast |
| 17:03.00 | nevcairiel | i finally found a good foobar2000 upmix plugin, yay |
| 17:03.04 | dbguy | "but once its done its lightning fast" I wouldn't say that.. and I say this as a gentoo user since 4 years back |
| 17:03.12 | dbguy | cncfanatics: it's just your mind playing tricks |
| 17:03.37 | nevcairiel | How fast your gentoo is, is your own responsibility |
| 17:03.43 | cncfanatics | my last distros were debian & ubuntu, I'm 100% sure its faster then those due to gentoo not starting 15 crap daemons I don't need but which start anyway due to crap depencies |
| 17:03.44 | nevcairiel | it can be the fastest distribution |
| 17:03.58 | dbguy | ah right |
| 17:07.10 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-76-24-240-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 17:07.10 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 17:07.53 | Jamash | oops, I think I just infinite looped |
| 17:08.32 | Jamash | yeah I did |
| 17:09.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Taroven (n=chatzill@HW-ESR1-208-102-197-5.fuse.net) |
| 17:15.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Industrial (n=Industri@194.145.194.227) |
| 17:15.36 | Industrial | het Cairenn|afk didnt know you had a site for WAR :-) |
| 17:15.38 | Industrial | hey* |
| 17:17.11 | Fisker- | hey Industrial |
| 17:17.14 | Fisker- | i didn't know |
| 17:18.05 | Industrial | now you do. |
| 17:18.10 | Industrial | hey Fisker- |
| 17:23.51 | Fisker- | hey Industrial |
| 17:23.57 | Fisker- | ~kiss Fisker- |
| 17:23.58 | purl | ACTION forces Fisker- to give Martinp23 a big kiss on the neck |
| 17:24.27 | Jamash | lua patterns < perl regexps |
| 17:47.14 | Jamash | arghhhhh tokenizing |
| 17:48.22 | Kaso | lua patterns aren't the best in the world |
| 17:48.44 | Kaso | but tokenizing should be fairly easy |
| 17:48.46 | Legorol | they serve their jobs though whilst being superefficient |
| 17:48.51 | Jamash | I'm trying to dissect a macro so I can find out what spells are cast in it |
| 17:49.12 | Kaso | string.gmatch is pretty much made for tokenising |
| 17:50.15 | Jamash | my problem is Lua doesn't have "pattern1|pattern2", or "(complex pattern)+" |
| 17:50.55 | Jamash | I have to do those manually with multiple calls to the matching function |
| 17:50.58 | haste | then use lpeg or pcre |
| 17:51.13 | Jamash | there's a pcre for lua? :-O |
| 17:51.20 | haste | oh wait, this is a WoW channel :D\\\\ |
| 17:51.23 | Kaso | lol |
| 17:51.30 | Kaso | for stand alone lua Jamash |
| 17:51.47 | haste | PCRE is damn slow tho' |
| 17:51.51 | haste | and complex |
| 17:51.56 | Jamash | so, linking to the library, not in native Lua |
| 17:52.00 | nevcairiel | I've never needed any real complex pattern in WoWLua, really |
| 17:52.02 | haste | the pcre lib is like twice the size of Lua |
| 17:52.06 | haste | same |
| 17:52.19 | Jamash | neither have I until now |
| 17:52.29 | nevcairiel | You'll manage |
| 17:53.15 | Jamash | I took a peek at lpeg and ran away screaming from its abuse of operator overloading |
| 17:53.58 | Jamash | but I suppose I could try it |
| 17:54.16 | haste | you can't use those libraries in WoWLua |
| 17:54.35 | Jamash | D: |
| 17:54.40 | nevcairiel | All stuff you can use is pure Lua code |
| 17:55.07 | nevcairiel | if you find a PCRE or LPEG implementation in that, feel free, except that it will be slower then haste in implementing new features |
| 17:55.10 | Jamash | LPeg isn't pure Lua? |
| 17:55.24 | haste | LPeg is 2k lines of C |
| 17:55.24 | nevcairiel | I would guess its a C lib to Lua |
| 17:55.28 | Jamash | bleh |
| 17:55.36 | nevcairiel | Pure Lua could would be too slow |
| 17:55.41 | haste | the pcre part of it is 500 lines of lua tho' |
| 17:55.43 | haste | very slow :p |
| 17:56.08 | haste | well actually not very slow |
| 17:56.10 | Jamash | don't care if it's slow, I only need to do it on user invocation, which won't be very often |
| 17:56.17 | haste | but you would exhaust quite a lot of memory |
| 17:56.29 | haste | since all string would have to be converted to tables for speed |
| 17:56.37 | Jamash | I could be very lazy but then I'd match Heroic Throw when looking for Throw |
| 17:56.37 | nevcairiel | imho, rethink your problem, and fit it into Lua pattern |
| 17:56.51 | haste | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:57.43 | Jamash | I suppose |
| 17:59.13 | nevcairiel | Hm haste i was wondering something |
| 17:59.19 | haste | oh shi- |
| 17:59.22 | nevcairiel | Can i spawn oUF frames on arbitrary names? |
| 17:59.30 | nevcairiel | Like, the tanks name? |
| 17:59.34 | nevcairiel | without knowing his unit id? |
| 17:59.46 | nevcairiel | All Unit* APIs support it |
| 17:59.49 | haste | it would probably work |
| 17:59.55 | haste | not anything I've tested however |
| 17:59.57 | nevcairiel | I want MT frames |
| 18:00.06 | nevcairiel | and if i use the secure-header way of MT frames |
| 18:00.12 | Jamash | until your hunter names his pet MainTankGuy's name |
| 18:00.14 | nevcairiel | i don't get a MT-target |
| 18:00.59 | nevcairiel | unless you know of a way to get an additional target frame for a auto-populated frame by the headers |
| 18:01.16 | haste | like with the XML template you mean? :) |
| 18:01.38 | nevcairiel | ? |
| 18:01.40 | Ackis | Merry Easter everyone! (except nevcairiel) |
| 18:01.44 | haste | take a look at oUF.xml |
| 18:01.57 | haste | it's a quick example on how you can spawn target frames on party |
| 18:02.01 | haste | with the secure header |
| 18:02.19 | Jamash | Happy Zombie Jesus Day! |
| 18:02.24 | haste | you just need to set it as the headers template attribute |
| 18:02.29 | nevcairiel | ooo |
| 18:02.30 | nevcairiel | thats nice |
| 18:03.04 | nevcairiel | I was wondering if thats somehow possible |
| 18:04.16 | Ackis | nevcairiel: anything is possible if you care enough |
| 18:04.22 | Ackis | all you need is LOVE |
| 18:05.03 | Jamash | love and regular expressions |
| 18:05.14 | nevcairiel | Ackis: its not easter yet, btw |
| 18:05.34 | Ackis | nevcairiel: it's the spirit of the occasion and I won't be online tomorrow :P |
| 18:06.01 | Ackis | besides I knew you'd bitch so I excluded you from my wishing everyone a Merry Easter. |
| 18:06.03 | Ackis | pfft |
| 18:06.12 | *** join/#wowuidev daev (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:07.27 | Jamash | it's easter in australia |
| 18:07.46 | dbguy | isn't it easter everywhere? |
| 18:08.15 | NightHawkTheSane | er. no? |
| 18:08.18 | Jamash | it's saturday, easter is on sunday |
| 18:08.22 | NightHawkTheSane | welcome to time zones. |
| 18:08.23 | dbguy | oh right |
| 18:09.46 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (n=spode@85.134.127.203) |
| 18:14.13 | cncfanatics | lol |
| 18:14.18 | cncfanatics | <3 NightHawkTheSane |
| 18:20.30 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@c-68-62-175-169.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 18:20.31 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 18:22.11 | airtonix | Customer: âExcuse me. Do you have any left-handed golf balls?â |
| 18:28.12 | *** join/#wowuidev ilovemrdoe (n=ddd@88-104-3-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:33.49 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 18:37.10 | Jamash | now I need some ridiculously complex macros to try to parse |
| 18:37.40 | cncfanatics | Jamash: what you working on ? :o |
| 18:37.48 | Jamash | a macro parser |
| 18:38.16 | Jamash | :P |
| 18:38.21 | cncfanatics | I have some semi-complicated macros for you I guess |
| 18:38.37 | Jamash | it's for Learning Aid, I'm adding a feature that scans your action bars for abilities you've forgotten to put on |
| 18:38.46 | Jamash | but it doesn't find abilities that are on macros |
| 18:39.01 | cncfanatics | couldn't you just use GetMacroSpell for that instead of parsing it out ? |
| 18:39.06 | Jamash | wut |
| 18:39.34 | Jamash | oh, that only displays the currently selected spell |
| 18:39.39 | cncfanatics | ah ok |
| 18:39.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (i=Dark_Elf@ip1.net253.mw.net) |
| 18:39.55 | Kaso | http://www.wowwiki.com/Making_a_macro |
| 18:40.00 | cncfanatics | macaroon could probably generate some really complicated macros for you btw |
| 18:40.03 | Kaso | fair few example macros there |
| 18:40.08 | cncfanatics | just enable all its options, together with all its remaps |
| 18:40.12 | cncfanatics | and see if you can parse the result :p |
| 18:40.25 | Kaso | Also try the "useful macros" link in the toc |
| 18:40.37 | cncfanatics | (I'd give you mine from macaroon , but wine is currently compiling atm, so I can't run wow) |
| 18:40.59 | Jamash | oh, that page has an EBNF notation for macros, that should be handy |
| 18:42.37 | Jamash | let's try "/cast [equipped:Shields,stance:1/2] Shield Bash; [equipped:Shields] Defensive Stance; [stance:3] Pummel; Berserker Stance" |
| 18:45.30 | Jamash | hm, seems to work ok |
| 18:53.48 | *** join/#wowuidev batbot (n=batbot@batbytes.com) |
| 19:01.54 | Jamash | is variable, _ = function() just a convention? _ doesn't have any special meaning to Lua? |
| 19:02.16 | Adys | Jamash: convention, it means "unused" or "temporary" |
| 19:02.21 | Adys | sorta |
| 19:02.24 | Jamash | that's what I thought |
| 19:02.56 | *** join/#wowuidev batbot (n=batbot@batbytes.com) |
| 19:03.12 | dbguy | Adys: but if you have a function func() return 1,2,3 end then isn't it the same whether you do: local a = func() or local a, _, _ = func()? a is 1 in both cases |
| 19:03.41 | Jamash | you might want to do a, _, c = func() |
| 19:03.44 | Adys | I think a will be a list in the second case |
| 19:03.50 | Adys | Im not sure |
| 19:04.27 | *** join/#wowuidev tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 19:04.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 19:04.31 | dbguy | Adys: they are the same according to my lua interpreter |
| 19:04.56 | dbguy | Jamash: yes, but I was thinking of the case where you want only the first variable |
| 19:05.32 | Jamash | if you only want the first then yeah, they're the same |
| 19:06.03 | Kaso | if you only want the first variable then why bother storing the others at all? |
| 19:06.07 | Kaso | local a = func() |
| 19:06.29 | Kaso | oh wait |
| 19:06.36 | Kaso | read closer and you said that :( |
| 19:06.42 | dbguy | Kaso: well it happens with WowAPI.. there are functions that return a dozen variables and you only want the first or one of them |
| 19:07.18 | Kaso | yah, all others will be discarded if you just do a = func() |
| 19:07.23 | dbguy | yes |
| 19:07.36 | Kaso | also if you only want, like the fifth one, its usually better to use select() than _,_, |
| 19:07.46 | dbguy | oh |
| 19:07.51 | Kaso | well "better" is prob debatable, but its better practice in my mind |
| 19:08.27 | dbguy | Kaso: so how do you use select()? |
| 19:08.39 | Kaso | local a = select(5,func()); |
| 19:08.46 | dbguy | aha. yes |
| 19:08.47 | Kaso | that will store the fifth return of func() into a |
| 19:09.07 | dbguy | it is strange select() will return a list of values starting from the index |
| 19:09.20 | Kaso | yah, its meant to do that |
| 19:09.20 | Adys | unless its a long list, using _, _, foo = bar() is more readable, imo |
| 19:09.35 | dbguy | I think so too Adys |
| 19:09.38 | foxlit | urgh, you get to count the _s. |
| 19:09.41 | foxlit | That's never fun. |
| 19:09.42 | Jamash | yay my macro parser seems to work |
| 19:09.48 | Adys | hence the long list thing |
| 19:09.55 | Adys | when you see _, _, _ you know there are 3. |
| 19:10.00 | Kaso | if you really want only the nth return of a function (say you're passing to a vararg) you can do (select(5,func())) |
| 19:10.04 | foxlit | And that's two too many :) |
| 19:10.15 | Adys | your mom's two too many |
| 19:10.24 | Jamash | but what if a rank is explicitly specified... |
| 19:10.43 | Adys | other thing is if you ever want to use one of those args |
| 19:11.01 | Adys | say _, _, somearg, otherarg = foo() |
| 19:11.17 | Adys | you have nothing to change :) |
| 19:11.29 | Adys | well no syntax to change |
| 19:11.43 | Adys | matter of taste i guess |
| 19:12.28 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 19:13.15 | Kaso | <Kaso> well "better" is prob debatable, but its better practice in my mind ;p |
| 19:13.41 | Adys | your mom is just practice shes nowhere near better |
| 19:13.55 | Kaso | owch |
| 19:13.58 | Adys | reminds me |
| 19:13.59 | Adys | ~wowiquotes |
| 19:14.00 | purl | http://www.teomyr.eu/wowuidev/irc-quotes |
| 19:16.59 | Cairenn | omg, I hadn't seen that before |
| 19:17.10 | Cairenn | is laughing herself silly over here |
| 19:17.37 | Adys | Im slapping teomyr to update it |
| 19:20.14 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@p3lim.e15-2.tg09.gathering.org) |
| 19:25.52 | Jamash | needs more zootfizzle |
| 19:26.42 | Cairenn | there's a few -really- good ones in here |
| 19:26.57 | Cairenn | [16:07:55] <Fisker-> You hear that? |
| 19:26.57 | Cairenn | [16:08:09] <Adys> yeah its you not shutting up |
| 19:27.34 | Cairenn | [05:55:00] <@Shirik> I come back and realize.... I'm running the program off my USB drive |
| 19:27.34 | Cairenn | [05:55:04] <@Shirik> and writing 6GB of data to that disk |
| 19:27.34 | Cairenn | [05:55:23] <Thunder_Child> mine is 8 |
| 19:27.34 | Cairenn | [05:55:30] <Adys> inches long? |
| 19:27.34 | Cairenn | [05:55:33] <Arrowmaster> i have an 8 and a 16 |
| 19:27.34 | Cairenn | [05:55:38] <Adys> weirdo |
| 19:27.36 | Cairenn | [05:55:49] <Arrowmaster> i only use the 8 because the school computers wont mount the 16 |
| 19:27.38 | Cairenn | [05:56:05] <Adys> .. you are fucked up |
| 19:27.47 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 19:28.11 | foxlit | Adys is like a resident bash.org troll, inserting inappropriateness into every situation :) |
| 19:28.22 | nevcairiel | Can an addon set MTs? or is that function protected? |
| 19:28.29 | nevcairiel | out of combat, of course |
| 19:28.50 | foxlit | iirc, SAB has types that do hat |
| 19:28.54 | foxlit | s/ha/tha/ |
| 19:29.01 | foxlit | well, that was useful |
| 19:29.20 | nevcairiel | I want to do it automated |
| 19:29.37 | nevcairiel | i wonder |
| 19:29.43 | foxlit | You can't. |
| 19:29.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Tempus (n=Tempus@ti0068a380-0776.bb.online.no) |
| 19:29.57 | nevcairiel | way to shatter my plans |
| 19:30.06 | nevcairiel | its ouf of combat :( |
| 19:30.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraftman (n=kraftman@87.194.204.202) |
| 19:30.40 | Gnarfoz | !api role |
| 19:30.41 | lua_bot | Could not find a match for 'role'. |
| 19:30.44 | Gnarfoz | mhh |
| 19:30.47 | Gnarfoz | is that 3.1? |
| 19:30.59 | foxlit | It's SetPartyAssignment / ClearPartyAssignment |
| 19:31.04 | Gnarfoz | ah, assignment |
| 19:31.05 | Gnarfoz | meh |
| 19:31.33 | nevcairiel | I wanted to write an addon that sets the blizz MTs when oRA2 sets its |
| 19:31.39 | nevcairiel | but i guess no luck |
| 19:31.44 | Jamash | ~sadtrombone |
| 19:32.03 | foxlit | You should clearly do it the other way around :) |
| 19:32.11 | nevcairiel | sure |
| 19:32.20 | Syzgyn | People still use MTTs? |
| 19:32.35 | Tempus | MTTs? |
| 19:32.38 | nevcairiel | I mostly only use it to see what the tanks target |
| 19:32.44 | Syzgyn | Main tank targets |
| 19:32.48 | Jamash | main tank targ...beat'd |
| 19:32.59 | nevcairiel | Why wouldn't i use them? =) |
| 19:33.09 | Jamash | I generally /focus the main tank and use that |
| 19:33.30 | nevcairiel | Might have multiple tanks |
| 19:33.34 | Jamash | that's also so my misdirect macro works |
| 19:33.55 | Gnarfoz | I can see how hunters wouldn't be in terrible need of MTTs |
| 19:33.55 | Gnarfoz | :p |
| 19:33.56 | nevcairiel | I'm a healer and a raid leader, i just like havint taps on anything thats happening in the raid |
| 19:34.03 | Gnarfoz | ^--- that |
| 19:34.23 | nevcairiel | And knowing what a tank targets helps there :) |
| 19:35.38 | Syzgyn | they were useful when learning BT |
| 19:35.50 | Syzgyn | I guess we'll start using again for Ulduar trash |
| 19:36.10 | Jamash | do tanks have unitids? |
| 19:36.53 | Gnarfoz | sadly, no :X |
| 19:37.25 | Tempus | Can Lua store anything between logged in sessions? |
| 19:37.36 | nevcairiel | sure, in the SavedVariables |
| 19:37.37 | Jamash | Tempus: Yes, look up SavedVariables |
| 19:37.48 | Tempus | Cool |
| 19:38.38 | Tempus | Um I just started with this today, so is there a good API for those who just want to do Lua for WoW? |
| 19:39.19 | Jamash | ya |
| 19:39.31 | Kaso | wowprogramming and wowwiki's interface section |
| 19:39.50 | Kaso | http://www.wowprogramming.com/ http://www.wowwiki.com/Portal:Interface_customization |
| 19:40.10 | Tempus | wowwiki is confusing, I'll try the other |
| 19:40.49 | Kaso | wowprogramming has good documentation of widgets and apis, but wowwiki has a bunch of other articles about things that help as well |
| 19:41.44 | Tempus | I was looking at wowwiki, and their structure has no sense at all to me, it doesn't have a logical structure like any other API that I have used. The wowprogramming site seems good though :) |
| 19:42.08 | Kaso | i think the term you're looking for is API documentation |
| 19:42.12 | nevcairiel | wowwiki is usually just the search box =P |
| 19:42.21 | Tempus | or reference |
| 19:42.22 | Kaso | yah search is good |
| 19:42.33 | Kaso | seeing api in that context causes a parsing error in my brain |
| 19:42.35 | NightHawkTheSane | eh, it might be just that i know how to find stuff there, but I never had a problem with finding API documentation on wowwiki |
| 19:42.48 | Jamash | it is a bit confusing at first |
| 19:43.17 | Jamash | it's split up by categories that don't make sense until you know some basics about how addons are structured |
| 19:43.35 | Tempus | Try another scripting language and add API at the end at google :) |
| 19:43.49 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, and ctrl/cmd-F is your friend, but that applies to wowprogramming.com too |
| 19:44.13 | Tempus | www.lmgtfy.com/?q=javascript%30api for instance |
| 19:44.29 | Tempus | ups that was a 0 lol |
| 19:44.52 | Kaso | %20 |
| 19:44.57 | NightHawkTheSane | except, as Kaso said, you're still referring to "API documentation" there |
| 19:45.07 | Jamash | well, if you just want the Lua docs you can go to http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/ |
| 19:45.10 | Adys | TRAC SUX. |
| 19:45.16 | Adys | "That's a but in TRAC's svn-commit-hook script, there's a ticket about it in TRAC's TRAC." |
| 19:45.19 | NightHawkTheSane | your MOM sucks |
| 19:45.25 | Adys | what I read was |
| 19:45.28 | Adys | "Your mom's TRAC's mom mommies my TRAC's TRAC mom" |
| 19:45.35 | NightHawkTheSane | ouch. |
| 19:46.10 | Jamash | yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation |
| 19:47.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:47.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 19:48.22 | Cairenn | tacklehugs Iriel |
| 19:48.54 | Adys | ~whalehug Iriel |
| 19:48.54 | purl | ACTION Persuades a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh to hug Iriel |
| 19:49.04 | Iriel | Ewwww. blubber |
| 19:52.59 | Tempus | Another question: I've seen people dealing with WoW addons using print for debugging: Is that supported, and how do I view these messages if they actually are executed? |
| 19:53.28 | Kaso | usually print is just a macro from ChatFrame1:AddMessage |
| 19:53.40 | Cairenn | ~devtools |
| 19:53.41 | purl | Iriel's DevTools, a highly useful set of debugging tools for developers on WoW. Found at http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=3999 Why isn't it in the default client yet? |
| 19:53.49 | Kaso | some libraries do that automatically for you |
| 19:53.49 | Gnarfoz | isn't print part of the base UI since 3.0? |
| 19:53.53 | Iriel | The standard UI has had print(...) since 3.0 |
| 19:53.55 | Kaso | is it? |
| 19:53.58 | Kaso | ooh |
| 19:54.01 | Gnarfoz | ^_^ |
| 19:54.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Riffage- (n=nnscript@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:54.06 | Iriel | it tostring's all of its args too |
| 19:54.12 | Tempus | Then I need to know how to view those outputs |
| 19:54.15 | Kaso | lol ive had it manually defined for so long i didnt know ;p |
| 19:54.24 | Tempus | Can I force the Lua console to display? |
| 19:54.27 | Iriel | While it's not quite as good as /dump for structured data, it's perfect for debugging/diagnostics |
| 19:54.28 | Gnarfoz | they end up in the default chat frame, probably, Tempus |
| 19:54.31 | NightHawkTheSane | you start by looking at your screen. :P |
| 19:54.35 | Iriel | It goes into the default chat frame, yes |
| 19:54.41 | Tempus | Ah nice |
| 19:54.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraftman (n=kraftman@87.194.204.202) |
| 19:55.03 | Tempus | Hum strange, I tried that for debugging earlier today, but I guess I didn't notice them in the chat window |
| 19:56.48 | Jamash | hay iriel, is devtools supposed to remember from session to session what events are shown in EventTrace? |
| 19:56.51 | Iriel | If you want to get more advanced: |
| 19:56.52 | Iriel | -- setprinthandler(func) -- Sets the active print handler |
| 19:56.52 | Iriel | -- func = getprinthandler() -- Gets the current print handler |
| 19:56.52 | Iriel | -- print(...) -- Passes its arguments to the current print handler |
| 19:56.56 | Iriel | Jamash: No |
| 19:57.09 | Iriel | Jamash: it's a periodically requested feature |
| 19:57.23 | nevcairiel | Maybe that should tell you something? =) |
| 19:57.30 | Jamash | I just noticed it seems to save a table of events in SavedVariables, but they're all set to true |
| 19:57.50 | Iriel | The table lists the events that EXIST |
| 19:57.54 | Jamash | ah |
| 19:57.59 | Iriel | which is used to populate the 'which events do you want' list |
| 20:02.26 | Tempus | Can someone explain this?: stat ::= if exp then block {elseif exp then block} [else block] end |
| 20:02.36 | Tempus | This is from the Lua reference |
| 20:03.20 | ScytheBlade1 | That is a standard syntax for syntax definitions |
| 20:03.21 | Tempus | if I want an elseif in there would it be {elseif blabla then statements} ? |
| 20:03.29 | Iriel | An if statement consists if the if keyword, an expression, the then keyword a block.... |
| 20:03.43 | Iriel | you can have repeating elseif expression then block pieces |
| 20:03.53 | Iriel | then you can have an optional else, followed by block |
| 20:03.54 | Adys | Tempus: thats whats written with "exp" instead of "blabla" and "block" instead of "statements" |
| 20:03.55 | Adys | :p |
| 20:03.55 | Iriel | and you finish with an end |
| 20:04.01 | Jamash | you don't actually put in the { } or [ ] |
| 20:04.54 | Tempus | so it's if condition then statement; elseif condition statement; else statement; end ? |
| 20:05.07 | Jamash | yep |
| 20:05.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (n=xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 20:05.43 | Tempus | thank you |
| 20:06.34 | Tempus | the Lua reference lacks actual code-sniplets to demonstrate, good thing there's a channel like this |
| 20:06.54 | Adys | ~whalesniplet Tempus |
| 20:07.02 | Aqua | hey Iriel, I just found your devtools mod, I love it, thanks |
| 20:08.01 | Iriel | Aqua: cool 8-) Always glad when it finds a new user. |
| 20:08.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-69-204-134-64.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 20:08.07 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 20:08.31 | Aqua | it so meets all the macros i wrote to id frames and such |
| 20:08.36 | Aqua | *beats |
| 20:08.38 | Lopeppeppy | dances all around the room |
| 20:08.50 | Cairenn | huggles Lopeppeppy |
| 20:08.56 | Adys | takes pics and uploads them for $5 each |
| 20:09.17 | Lopeppeppy | Did my taxes. Not hideous!!!!! Was expecting hideous!!!! |
| 20:09.23 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, Cairenn! |
| 20:09.25 | Aqua | thats a good thing |
| 20:09.30 | Cairenn | :) |
| 20:09.41 | Adys | [23:08:56] * Adys takes pics |
| 20:09.42 | Adys | [23:09:17] <+Lopeppeppy> Was expecting hideous!!!! |
| 20:09.54 | NightHawkTheSane | Tempus: read PiL, there are MANY code snippets there. |
| 20:09.55 | NightHawkTheSane | ~pil |
| 20:09.55 | purl | Programming in Lua, a book written by the authors of the Lua programming language. The first edition is available free online at http://www.lua.org/pil and covers Lua 5.0. The second edition is available in print from most online bookstores, and covers Lua 5.1. |
| 20:09.57 | Aqua | i'm going to blow up my computer with a graphics card update, sigh... |
| 20:10.10 | Iriel | While we're on the topic of devtools, has anyone noticed /dtframestack acting wierdly (killing FPS when enabled, in a way that doesn't recover when you turn it off until a reload or restart?) |
| 20:10.15 | Lopeppeppy | Well, yeah... I don't much like how I look in photos, Adys, but thank you. |
| 20:10.32 | Adys | Lopeppeppy: I don't think anyone does |
| 20:10.33 | Aqua | Iriel: I didn't notice it, only thing i noticed wierd was it bounced around on my screen |
| 20:10.33 | nevcairiel | never happend to me, Iriel |
| 20:10.39 | Adys | (how THEY look like that is) |
| 20:10.58 | Lopeppeppy | Adys, women especially often feel that way. |
| 20:10.59 | Iriel | Aqua: It tries to avoid wherever your mouse is |
| 20:11.10 | Adys | Lopeppeppy: Generalizations are bad |
| 20:11.12 | Iriel | Hm, interesting, I wonder what triggers it. |
| 20:11.15 | Aqua | I gathered that after i woke up a little |
| 20:11.15 | Adys | its just that men don't take pics. |
| 20:11.24 | Iriel | It may be a wacky interaction with the stereo 3d stuff |
| 20:11.28 | Lopeppeppy | Hmm, true, skewed sample, Adys. |
| 20:11.28 | Iriel | I had that enabled at the time |
| 20:18.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Aqua (n=Vette@74-137-180-6.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 20:24.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Riffage- (n=nnscript@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:25.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Teomyr (n=teo@teomyr.eu) |
| 20:26.10 | Adys | Teomyr: updated yet? |
| 20:26.40 | Jamash | so how is wow in STEREO SUPER TRIMENSIONAL VISION mode? |
| 20:26.42 | Teomyr | Adys: you insensitive clod |
| 20:26.54 | Teomyr | Adys: i'm about to lose a hard drive and all you think about is the quotes |
| 20:27.17 | Adys | Teomyr: youll kiss your hard drive for me |
| 20:27.33 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-69-204-134-64.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 20:28.06 | Teomyr | Adys: but what if it contains The Quotes? |
| 20:28.20 | Adys | Teomyr: i got a local backup |
| 20:28.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-69-204-134-64.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 20:28.23 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 20:28.27 | Jamash | I have implemented a macro scanner, and now it is time for breakfast |
| 20:28.38 | Teomyr | Adys: oh, that's nice |
| 20:28.42 | Adys | Teomyr: I dont |
| 20:28.52 | Teomyr | Adys: Neither do I |
| 20:29.00 | Jamash | wget is your friend |
| 20:32.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Hati (i=Hati@dslb-088-074-189-017.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:33.04 | Hati | Hi |
| 20:33.31 | Lopeppeppy | Morning. |
| 20:33.43 | Fisker- | yay |
| 20:33.48 | Fisker- | 3rd batch of viagra order sent |
| 20:33.56 | Teomyr | Adys: there you whiner |
| 20:33.58 | Fisker- | btw Lopeppeppy you're terribad at detecting keyloggers |
| 20:34.01 | Hati | someone here who's knowing about Backdrops :/ ? |
| 20:34.03 | Adys | ~wowiquotes |
| 20:34.04 | purl | http://www.teomyr.eu/wowuidev/irc-quotes |
| 20:34.27 | Adys | Teomyr: isnt it lacking yesterday's?! |
| 20:34.28 | Adys | :P |
| 20:34.36 | Teomyr | bah |
| 20:36.21 | Hati | hmm noone? |
| 20:37.58 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@c-68-62-175-169.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 20:37.58 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 20:41.07 | Fisker- | slaps ckknight around a bit with a large trout |
| 20:42.13 | Druidicbeast | Someone know a little about oUF that could help me with a quick problem I am having in my layout ? |
| 20:43.41 | nevcairiel | I've heard haste knows stuff |
| 20:44.53 | nevcairiel | also |
| 20:44.55 | Hati | Someone here who could help me ? I'm not getting the borders displayed on my buttons via backdrops ? |
| 20:44.55 | nevcairiel | ~asktoask |
| 20:44.55 | purl | This is IRC. Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help. |
| 20:45.53 | Druidicbeast | I am trying to get this bar.value:SetFormattedText("%s | %s", min, max) to not color the line in between the 2 strings |
| 20:46.08 | Druidicbeast | but I can't figure it out |
| 20:46.35 | Hati | I have a problem with setting up borders on my frames ... but i don't get it to work |
| 20:46.46 | nevcairiel | min and max contain color codes? |
| 20:46.59 | nevcairiel | or the whole font string in a different color? |
| 20:47.01 | Adys | hati: paste a bit of code on pastebin.com, and we'll look |
| 20:47.10 | Druidicbeast | yeah let me get a pastey of the whole thing one sec |
| 20:47.50 | Druidicbeast | http://www.pastey.net/112109 |
| 20:48.07 | Druidicbeast | for line 17 unpack powercolors i have the table further up in the code if you need it too |
| 20:48.13 | Hati | http://pastebin.com/d56acfe31 |
| 20:48.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Riffage- (n=nnscript@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:49.27 | Adys | Hati: does Interface\Buttons\WHITE8X8 exist ? |
| 20:49.28 | nevcairiel | when using a text color on the whole fontstring, you can't really "not color" one part. All you CAN do is simply wrap the pipe in color codes for the color thats supposed to be "not colored", probably white or grey-ish |
| 20:49.34 | Hati | i'm sure it is |
| 20:49.41 | Hati | another addon use it |
| 20:49.49 | Hati | also Sexymap works with it |
| 20:50.37 | cncfanatics | mmm, I need a decent wallpaper |
| 20:50.43 | cncfanatics | anyone got suggestions for a wallpaper site ? :p |
| 20:50.46 | nevcairiel | like bar.value:SetFormattedText("%s |cffffffff||r%s", min, max) |
| 20:50.49 | tekkub | deviantart |
| 20:50.51 | Hati | deviantart |
| 20:51.00 | nevcairiel | i wodner if that works, due to the special nature of the pipe o.o |
| 20:51.05 | Adys | Hati: so what are you trying to do in here? make a repeated background? |
| 20:51.25 | Druidicbeast | tyvm nev im gonna try it out right now |
| 20:51.26 | cncfanatics | ty tekkub & Hati :) |
| 20:51.27 | Druidicbeast | one sec |
| 20:51.44 | nevcairiel | well that colors the pipe white, but you get the idea if you want another color =) |
| 20:52.07 | Druidicbeast | yep doin it now |
| 20:52.12 | Hati | Adys: I'm trying to set up a little cd display for myself ... without bars etc. |
| 20:52.28 | Hati | just Icons which displays Duration (if there's no duration it will display the cooldown) |
| 20:52.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Riffage- (n=nnscript@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:53.11 | Adys | i cant really help without testing but Im sure someone will ;) |
| 20:53.12 | Hati | but i want the icons to be bordered white to fit more in the rest of the whole interface |
| 20:54.32 | NeoTron | Fisker-: can't help but notice GC saying, paraphrased, that "S3D speed kills is a bit too much, but it's ok and we won't change it" |
| 20:54.34 | Druidicbeast | works like a charm |
| 20:54.54 | Adys | NeoTron: "so what"? |
| 20:55.16 | Adys | NeoTron: 3.1 is coming next week, s3d will be as outdated as lvl60 content |
| 20:55.18 | zenzelezz | IIRC, they had a heated discussion about speed runs the other day |
| 20:55.18 | NeoTron | Fisker- was sure everyone doing it would get the achievement, title and possible protodrake removed because it was an exploit |
| 20:55.29 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlThePagan1 (n=karl@lanip-170-65.go180.net) |
| 20:55.31 | NeoTron | that's the "why" part |
| 20:55.36 | Adys | but Fisker- is a total idiot |
| 20:55.44 | NeoTron | just like telling Fisker- that he was wrong is all |
| 20:55.57 | Adys | dont tell him hes wrong, tell him he's a retard |
| 20:57.04 | Hati | Adys: hmm no idea what could be the problem? |
| 20:57.47 | Adys | Hati: sorry, no. Usually with frames, double check everything is anchored well, the frames you're mentioning exist, the files exist.. trial&err :) |
| 20:58.05 | Adys | And before you say it, yeah yeah, Sapphiron/Naxx wasn't hard, but we like this design layout better than the bag stuffing necessity version that was Huhuran. (Source) |
| 20:58.09 | Adys | tee hee huhuran |
| 21:00.38 | NeoTron | ah the joys of farming mauradon |
| 21:00.44 | Adys | ma |
| 21:00.45 | Adys | rau |
| 21:00.46 | Adys | don |
| 21:00.57 | Adys | gno-me-re-gan |
| 21:00.57 | zenzelezz | Adys: Blessing of Protection in three... two... one... now. Now! PALADINS WAKE UP!!! |
| 21:01.10 | Adys | zenzelezz: I remember |
| 21:01.44 | zenzelezz | was always amusing to listen to our two main tanks... one Russian and one Serb. "matherfacker!" |
| 21:02.17 | Adys | matterfucker? |
| 21:02.19 | Adys | ~sci-gasm |
| 21:06.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-177-35-62.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:06.02 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 21:06.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=Shirik@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 21:06.05 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 21:07.47 | Hati | hmm |
| 21:09.10 | Hati | i think i know the problem ... |
| 21:09.33 | Hati | edgeSize=1.142857168402 << on a frame which is >1.142857168402 ? |
| 21:10.36 | Hati | yea that was the problem ... |
| 21:12.40 | *** join/#wowuidev batbot (n=batbot@batbytes.com) |
| 21:13.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 21:13.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn] by ChanServ |
| 21:13.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@host217-42-55-145.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) |
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| 21:15.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn] by ChanServ |
| 21:15.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin1 (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 21:17.10 | *** join/#wowuidev drexore (n=drexore@redeye.xs4all.nl) |
| 21:25.34 | batrick | dbguy killed batbot :( (08:18:28 < dbguy> http://ibot.rikers.org/%23wowuidev/20080506.html.gz search for your name |
| 21:25.42 | batrick | invalid capture index ftl |
| 21:25.50 | dbguy | :] |
| 21:26.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc1 (n=Antiarc@wsip-70-167-195-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 21:26.18 | Shirik | gj batrick |
| 21:26.24 | batrick | =D |
| 21:26.25 | dbguy | batrick, well it's good the bug was found now than later when millions of lives are at risk! |
| 21:26.26 | Shirik | way to link the wrong item |
| 21:26.55 | batrick | It wasn't a link, my log library would substitute the message (what dbguy said) in a format string |
| 21:27.15 | batrick | gsub didn't like the %2 part of what he said =) |
| 21:27.22 | Shirik | oh |
| 21:29.07 | Shirik | why did batbot even pick that up batrick? |
| 21:29.13 | batrick | ? |
| 21:29.22 | Shirik | there's no trigger |
| 21:29.47 | batrick | batbot logs almost everything |
| 21:30.55 | Shirik | I log everything |
| 21:30.57 | Shirik | Shiibot has no problem |
| 21:31.13 | batrick | what's your point? |
| 21:31.23 | Shirik | I don't see why that would break batbot |
| 21:32.06 | zenzelezz | Shirik: Your eyes can deceive you, don't trust them |
| 21:32.30 | batrick | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:32.41 | batrick | The last part escaping the '%' I just addex |
| 21:32.43 | batrick | added* |
| 21:32.48 | batrick | hopefully that makes more sense?? |
| 21:33.36 | Shirik | not really :/ what is the purpose of that? |
| 21:33.50 | batrick | I'll just paste the whole thing |
| 21:34.16 | nevcairiel | so if i mention %23 in a string now, it wont break it? http://or.does.it/haveto/%23/be/a/url? |
| 21:34.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Riffage- (n=nnscript@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:34.36 | batrick | http://batbytes.com/log.lua |
| 21:35.28 | nevcairiel | lua> ("%23"):gsub("%%", "%") |
| 21:35.29 | lua_bot | nevcairiel: |
| 21:35.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@wikia/Kirkburn) |
| 21:35.34 | batrick | nevcairiel: I fixed it already |
| 21:35.55 | batrick | I believe I had the problem before, but when I ported servers it was outdated |
| 21:36.03 | batrick | my log library was outdated* |
| 21:36.56 | Shirik | I think your log system is unnecessarily complex but ok :P |
| 21:38.05 | batrick | It abstracts where you actually send log messages too, and makes adding debug info to logs easy to turn off |
| 21:41.42 | *** join/#wowuidev NM|Xinhuan (n=xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 21:42.55 | Shirik | Hm |
| 21:43.01 | Shirik | I wonder if valgrind compiles for cygwin |
| 21:45.01 | *** join/#wowuidev drexore (n=drexore@redeye.xs4all.nl) |
| 21:47.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@host217-44-100-184.range217-44.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:47.28 | *** join/#wowuidev blubber-- (n=blubber@blubber.student.utwente.nl) |
| 21:48.22 | Shirik | checking for a supported OS... no (cygwin) |
| 21:48.22 | Shirik | configure: error: Valgrind is operating system specific. Sorry. Please consider doing a port. |
| 21:48.23 | Shirik | :( |
| 21:48.50 | Arrowmaster | "There is no port for Microsoft Windows at the moment (nor are there any official short-term plans for one), but there is an experimental version capable of interfacing with Wine for debugging Windows software running on Linux." |
| 21:49.57 | Shirik | not really useful |
| 21:50.21 | Shirik | I'm trying to check a security vulnerability that's been reported in an application I use and I can't guarantee that running it through wine will modify its behavior |
| 21:50.24 | Shirik | will not modify* |
| 21:51.06 | Shirik | having a valgrind for windows would be so awesome |
| 21:51.13 | Shirik | I wonder why nobody's ever done it |
| 21:52.12 | nevcairiel | you, go! |
| 21:54.23 | zenzelezz | Shirik: aren't there Valgrind alternatives for Windows? |
| 21:54.53 | Shirik | there's visual studio though visual studio's checks don't satisfy me as well as Valgrind's |
| 21:55.18 | Shirik | visual studio catches many things that valgrind will catch, but valgrind is actually able to hint at why something may happen |
| 21:55.51 | Shirik | for example, visual studio will complain about an access out of allocated memory. valgrind will also mention any memory blocks it's near and where that memory block was allocated |
| 21:56.10 | Shirik | visual studio will complain about access of already-freed memory. valgrind will mention where it was allocated and deallocated, as well |
| 21:56.30 | nevcairiel | so port it to windows :p |
| 21:57.38 | Shirik | ah good they have an svn repository |
| 21:57.44 | Shirik | so if I were to port, I could keep in sync with them |
| 22:00.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Etanol (n=Etanol@hus134a.bobbnet.com) |
| 22:00.56 | *** join/#wowuidev spode- (n=spode@85.134.127.203) |
| 22:10.36 | batrick | 14:51:13 <@Shirik> I wonder why nobody's ever done it |
| 22:10.38 | batrick | Shirik: I know this one, because developing on windows sucks yaya |
| 22:10.46 | batrick | =D |
| 22:10.53 | Shirik | yet it needs to be done |
| 22:11.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Pytlask (n=Pytlask@ip68-111-86-159.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 22:11.11 | batrick | why would you want to encourage development on such a shitty platform |
| 22:11.12 | Iriel | It's a vicious cycle, if everyone stopped doing it, it wouldn't need to be done |
| 22:11.41 | zenzelezz | people are too dramatic about it |
| 22:11.49 | Pytlask | *wave* Any Wine users online at the moment? |
| 22:11.57 | zenzelezz | there are annoying and bad things about Windows, but there's also a solid foundation |
| 22:12.00 | batrick | I use it, though I don't play wow anymore |
| 22:12.09 | batrick | Solid?? |
| 22:12.22 | zenzelezz | yes |
| 22:12.34 | Pytlask | batrick: Have you ever tried WC3 with Wine? I'm getting blurry graphics (particularly text) and can't seem to figure out why :/ |
| 22:12.44 | batrick | The systemic security problems Windows has doesn't strike you as a fairly weak foundation I don't know what would |
| 22:12.57 | batrick | Pytlask: nah sorry haven't tried WC3 |
| 22:13.07 | batrick | Have you switched on opengl? |
| 22:13.13 | Pytlask | Yup. First thing I did :) |
| 22:13.16 | batrick | There may be a setting in WC3 for it |
| 22:13.31 | batrick | Then I dunno |
| 22:13.33 | batrick | kd3 might |
| 22:13.35 | batrick | he's a wine pro |
| 22:13.38 | zenzelezz | batrick: I said there were bad things about it. But you can't ignore the fact that there are a lot of things in Windows that Just Work |
| 22:13.55 | Pytlask | batrick: Alright, thanks! |
| 22:14.19 | batrick | I'm not really here to get in a big OS argument so I'm just going to stop here |
| 22:14.24 | batrick | yw |
| 22:14.40 | Pytlask | prefers his Sliderule OS |
| 22:16.07 | durcyn | zenzelezz: cart, horse. things "just work" on the platform they were written for. |
| 22:18.19 | nevcairiel | Linux has the same amount of issues, except that they get dealt with more quiet, the guy finding them usually just writes a patch as well, and noone talks about it =P |
| 22:18.38 | *** part/#wowuidev Pytlask (n=Pytlask@ip68-111-86-159.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 22:18.40 | batrick | I never advocated linux as the solution |
| 22:19.18 | nevcairiel | Now dont say OSX, because thats evil too. And with that, we're out of "mainstream" OS' |
| 22:19.27 | batrick | I hate apple :) |
| 22:20.07 | zenzelezz | I wish there was a worthy MSDN (Library) equivalent for *nix. Digging around FAQs or headers isn't my idea of fun |
| 22:20.14 | nevcairiel | heh |
| 22:20.21 | nevcairiel | google is your friend |
| 22:20.40 | zenzelezz | that's the point. It'd be so much nicer if you didn't have to go googling |
| 22:21.04 | nevcairiel | I use google to search for msdn articles, its usually faster then using their search |
| 22:21.06 | nevcairiel | but shrug |
| 22:21.46 | nevcairiel | usually you can get alot of info from man pages |
| 22:21.54 | zenzelezz | I'd agree with you about that, but most of the time I don't search, I browse |
| 22:22.04 | Jamash | real *nix hackers read the source |
| 22:22.12 | zenzelezz | true, but you have to know what you're looking for for man pages to help |
| 22:22.25 | nevcairiel | indeed |
| 22:22.29 | zenzelezz | which is where MSDN tends to be helpful, categorizing stuff |
| 22:22.33 | batrick | reading source can promote making bad assumptions that affect portability :P |
| 22:23.18 | batrick | trust the specification, read the source when things go wrong :) |
| 22:25.13 | Iriel | batrick: amen to that |
| 22:25.29 | Jamash | specifications are nice |
| 22:25.29 | Iriel | As I like to say it 'the source tells you what it does, the documentation tells you what it's supposed to do' |
| 22:25.30 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 22:25.34 | Jamash | when they are followed |
| 22:25.54 | Iriel | when they're not, that's a bug, and you fix it |
| 22:26.00 | Jamash | I was trying to write a tiny little widget in javascript a bit back |
| 22:26.20 | nevcairiel | javascript is example where all that never works :P |
| 22:26.22 | Jamash | none of the browsers act the same as any other browser when you follow the spec |
| 22:27.38 | nevcairiel | speaking of browsers, Firefox 3.5 Beta 4 is supposed to be out in 2 days |
| 22:27.44 | Jamash | whee |
| 22:28.09 | Lopeppeppy | That's good. 3.0.8 has been the release from hell, I'd like to see it gone.... |
| 22:28.28 | ZorbaTHut | I wonder if they'll have fixed the garbage collector causing it to run jerkily with lots of windows open |
| 22:28.36 | ZorbaTHut | I am so tired of that issue :( |
| 22:28.42 | nevcairiel | wasnt there a 3.0.9? |
| 22:29.06 | Moleculor | I hate tabs in FF since I essentially already have tabs in my taskbar, but running multiple FF windows would always cause serious memory leaks. Hope they fixed that. |
| 22:29.06 | Jamash | you're thinking of wow :) |
| 22:29.07 | ZorbaTHut | I think you're thinking about WoW ;) |
| 22:30.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Riffage- (n=nnscript@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:31.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@c-71-197-12-179.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 22:33.05 | nevcairiel | I dunno, i've been on 3.5 nightly builds for a while |
| 22:33.16 | nevcairiel | Might've gotten my memory corrupted from wow :P |
| 22:33.26 | foxlit | Only 3.5? I'm already using 4.0. |
| 22:33.34 | Lopeppeppy | No 3.0.9 yet in FF |
| 22:33.47 | Moleculor | 3.5? 4.0? We're talking about D&D now? |
| 22:33.54 | nevcairiel | no, Firefox |
| 22:34.19 | Jamash | firefoxlit |
| 22:34.38 | Lopeppeppy | goes splodey! |
| 22:34.56 | nevcairiel | (also, there is no 4.0, the "newest" is 3.6a1pre |
| 22:34.57 | nevcairiel | ) |
| 22:35.11 | Jamash | and the next release version is 3.1, not 3.5 |
| 22:35.20 | Adys | its 3.5 |
| 22:35.28 | nevcairiel | its 3.5 |
| 22:35.34 | nevcairiel | they rebranded after beta 3 |
| 22:36.38 | Jamash | oh |
| 22:36.40 | Jamash | weird |
| 22:36.59 | nevcairiel | They did that to indicate the scope of changes |
| 22:37.55 | Jamash | it's 0.4 better! |
| 22:38.59 | ZorbaTHut | that's like how Winamp entirely skipped Winamp 4 |
| 22:40.07 | Shirik | lol, nevcairiel, checked out valgrind's code |
| 22:40.08 | nevcairiel | they wanted to get distance from the failure 3 has been |
| 22:40.20 | NightHawkTheSane | 3.5, now with 16% more awesome? |
| 22:40.20 | Shirik | they have detailed instructions on how to run valgrind under valgrind |
| 22:40.31 | Shirik | it almost makes your brain melt |
| 22:40.32 | Jamash | and what happened to TCP/IP v5 |
| 22:40.44 | nevcairiel | 5 was taken by something |
| 22:40.52 | nevcairiel | i read that in an article somewhere |
| 22:41.02 | ZorbaTHut | I wonder what the standard thing to run valgrind on when you're testing it under valgrind is |
| 22:41.11 | Shirik | ok, there is no such thing as tcp/ip v5 |
| 22:41.17 | Shirik | tcp and ip are two different protocols |
| 22:41.21 | Shirik | ipv5 |
| 22:41.27 | nevcairiel | IPv5 was some experiemental, but failed and scrabbed protocol |
| 22:41.27 | Adys | ~ping |
| 22:41.28 | purl | ~pong |
| 22:41.42 | Shirik | ipv5 was an experimental p... nevcairiel wins |
| 22:42.05 | nevcairiel | http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1819 |
| 22:42.10 | nevcairiel | this i think was the most of it |
| 22:42.52 | nevcairiel | "When encapsulated in IP, ST uses IP Protocol Number 5." |
| 22:43.06 | nevcairiel | "ST uses IP Version Number 5." |
| 22:43.08 | nevcairiel | etc :P |
| 22:43.15 | Jamash | I'm waiting for IPv8, with 512 bit addresses |
| 22:43.26 | nevcairiel | I think v6 will serve us a while |
| 22:43.32 | Jamash | I need to individually address all the atoms in my body |
| 22:43.36 | Shirik | there's no reason for ipv8 |
| 22:43.51 | nevcairiel | When we run out of IPv6 addresses, something is terribly wrong =P |
| 22:44.09 | Shirik | yes |
| 22:44.31 | Adys | running out of something finite is an easy thing |
| 22:44.59 | Adys | I mean, theres a LOT of ipv4 addresses after all |
| 22:45.09 | Dagmar | IPv6 is so much larger |
| 22:45.10 | Adys | Im sure they said the same back then :) |
| 22:45.13 | Adys | so what? |
| 22:45.15 | Shirik | It has been estimated that there are enough ipv6 addresses for every grain of sand on the earth |
| 22:45.20 | Adys | .. so what? |
| 22:45.25 | DWSR | Adys: IPv6 is aiming to get rid of NAT. |
| 22:45.27 | Dagmar | You could assign an IP address to every square inch on earth and not make a dent. |
| 22:45.28 | DWSR | Adys: That's what. |
| 22:45.36 | Adys | Dagmar: so what? |
| 22:45.38 | nevcairiel | lua> 2^128 / 6700000000 |
| 22:45.38 | lua_bot | nevcairiel: 5.0788412973274e+28 |
| 22:45.45 | nevcairiel | alot of numbers per person =P |
| 22:45.48 | Adys | yes |
| 22:46.03 | DWSR | Adys: IPv6 needs to happen. |
| 22:46.08 | Dagmar | Adys: There is not enough functional biomass or space on the surface of earth to support the people that would be needed to consume that many addresses. |
| 22:46.09 | Dagmar | That's "so what" |
| 22:46.12 | Adys | dude I didnt say it was wrong |
| 22:46.22 | DWSR | Adys: Of course you did. |
| 22:46.23 | Jamash | but what about interstellar addressing |
| 22:46.31 | Adys | Dagmar: when you start getting enterprises cutting huge (litterally huge) chunks into ipv6 |
| 22:46.32 | ZorbaTHut | dagmar, assuming that each address requires an actual device, I agree. I don't see why that's necessarily a good assumption though |
| 22:46.32 | Dagmar | Jamash: It's provided for. |
| 22:46.40 | Dagmar | Assumption? |
| 22:46.57 | DWSR | Dagmar: Yes. What about multi-homed boxes? |
| 22:46.57 | Dagmar | Adys: You misunderstand the functionality of IPv6 if you think that's a problem |
| 22:46.57 | ZorbaTHut | plus, that also assumes that the space will be divided out sensibly, which seems like an unwarranted assumption |
| 22:47.02 | zenzelezz | there aren't enough Internet-connected devices until my toothbrush can upload my stats each night |
| 22:47.16 | Jamash | each bristle will have its own address |
| 22:47.24 | Adys | ZorbaTHut is correct |
| 22:47.27 | Dagmar | Jamash++ |
| 22:47.32 | DWSR | Indeed. :) |
| 22:47.35 | DWSR | Jamash++ |
| 22:47.39 | Shirik | ZorbaTHut fails to mention that this has already been accounted for |
| 22:47.40 | Adys | as long as you got something finite, you got something that you can run out of |
| 22:47.51 | Shirik | one of the critical flaws of IPv4 is inefficient allocation of addresses |
| 22:47.59 | Shirik | IPv6 is intended to expect that |
| 22:48.05 | Shirik | and still have no problem |
| 22:48.08 | Jamash | they're talking about handing out 48 bits to each customer |
| 22:48.10 | nevcairiel | Stupid companys just want a short prefix, and buy a unspeakable large number <.< |
| 22:48.13 | DWSR | Adys: But theory ~= reality. |
| 22:48.18 | ZorbaTHut | shirik, what's the improvement in ipv6? honestly, what I've heard mostly comes down to "well there's a whole lot of addresses so it won't be a problem" |
| 22:48.23 | Adys | DWSR: your mom can suck my theory up |
| 22:48.26 | Shirik | There's a lot of improvements |
| 22:48.28 | Jamash | so you can use your ethernet mac as your local suffix |
| 22:48.30 | Shirik | anycast is really cool |
| 22:48.32 | Jamash | which is a terrible idea |
| 22:48.44 | Adys | OK to get it out right now |
| 22:48.45 | DWSR | Shirik: anycast? |
| 22:48.45 | Dagmar | ZorbaTHut: Some of IPv6 in IPv4 terms amounts to the route is part of the address |
| 22:48.51 | Adys | I didnt say ipv6 wasnt an improvement |
| 22:48.53 | Shirik | oh sorry, were you still referring to the IP issue? |
| 22:49.00 | Shirik | I was going off on a tangent |
| 22:49.02 | ZorbaTHut | shirik, yeah, the IP issue |
| 22:49.03 | Adys | and I didnt say we'll run out of ipv6 addresses next year |
| 22:49.09 | ZorbaTHut | I know ipv6 is a lot better, and I really want it too |
| 22:49.12 | Jamash | next millennium maybe |
| 22:49.17 | Adys | Jamash: BS |
| 22:49.19 | ZorbaTHut | I just hadn't heard of anything to fix IP shortages besides "well now there's a lot of them" :) |
| 22:49.34 | Moleculor | IPv6? |
| 22:49.35 | Jamash | a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot of them |
| 22:49.36 | Adys | Jamash: stop living in the future |
| 22:49.37 | Dagmar | Well, if some ISPs will get the clue that IPv6 gets them the QoS stuff they want essentially for free, we'll see some migration |
| 22:49.40 | DWSR | Moleculor: wiki IPv6. |
| 22:49.47 | Adys | Jamash: try to look at the past, at what happened before |
| 22:49.47 | Jamash | I'm living in the future and you can't stop me |
| 22:49.51 | Moleculor | No, I know what it is. |
| 22:50.04 | Moleculor | I just didn't read another line. |
| 22:50.14 | Adys | Jamash: people said "yeah we wont run out of ipv4 for centuries" before |
| 22:50.15 | Adys | actually |
| 22:50.16 | Adys | fuck it |
| 22:50.18 | Moleculor | I'm going back to my taxes now. |
| 22:50.18 | Shirik | ZorbaTHut: It's simply that there are sufficient addresses that you can allocate a sufficiently large subnet without making a dent, really |
| 22:50.25 | nevcairiel | Dagmar: except that they probably have to update a whole bunch of router hardware :p |
| 22:50.33 | ZorbaTHut | that's right back to "well there's a lot of them", though |
| 22:50.36 | Teomyr | What I find funny is that everyone says the major flaw of IPv4 was that some companies were allocated ridiculous amounts of addresses |
| 22:50.37 | Adys | I remember some asshole saying 640k ought to be enough for everybody |
| 22:50.41 | Jamash | (2^128) / Avogadro's number = 5.65052095 Ã 10^14 |
| 22:50.44 | Dagmar | Everything we've bought at the office in the last four years has been ipv6-capable |
| 22:50.46 | Shirik | right, but think about it for a second |
| 22:50.46 | Adys | ANYONE WHO REPEATS THAT for ipv4 is the same idiot |
| 22:50.48 | Teomyr | Now, they shell out /48 blocks like crazy |
| 22:50.48 | DWSR | Adys: Bill Gates? |
| 22:51.07 | Dagmar | I'm fairly sure most of the stuff since 2002 as well, but I've not looked into it |
| 22:51.08 | Shirik | Look at nevcairiel's math |
| 22:51.19 | Shirik | (18:44:59) (nevcairiel) lua> 2^128 / 6700000000 |
| 22:51.19 | Shirik | (18:44:59) (lua_bot) nevcairiel: 5.0788412973274e+28 |
| 22:51.24 | Shirik | Assuming every person owned a company |
| 22:51.26 | Adys | STOP IT |
| 22:51.30 | Adys | STOP IT FUCKING STOP IT. |
| 22:51.34 | Shirik | every company could have 10^28 addresses |
| 22:51.35 | DWSR | RAGE |
| 22:51.35 | Adys | stop pulling maths like that |
| 22:51.39 | ZorbaTHut | lua> 2^(128-48) / 6700000000 |
| 22:51.40 | lua_bot | ZorbaTHut: 1.8043668949472e+14 |
| 22:51.45 | Adys | lets talk PERCENTAGES |
| 22:51.49 | DWSR | Adys: Why? |
| 22:51.52 | DWSR | Percentages lie. |
| 22:51.53 | ZorbaTHut | eh, I dunno. I start thinking that's not quite looking forward enough |
| 22:52.01 | Adys | if every company takes out 0.01% of ipvX |
| 22:52.12 | Adys | it will take the SAME AMOUNT OF TIME to run out of ipv4 |
| 22:52.12 | Dagmar | You'd need to add a few more zeroes |
| 22:52.15 | Adys | than it will take to ipv6 |
| 22:52.22 | Adys | Dagmar: SHUT UP. |
| 22:52.23 | Jamash | but they're not handing out 0.01% |
| 22:52.25 | ZorbaTHut | well, it oughta be fine. |
| 22:52.31 | DWSR | Adys: They're not handing out 0.01%. |
| 22:52.33 | Shirik | lua> 2^128 * .0001 |
| 22:52.33 | lua_bot | Shirik: 3.4028236692094e+34 |
| 22:52.34 | Dagmar | 0.01% of IPv6 is considerably larger than all of IPv4 |
| 22:52.37 | Adys | DWSR: they CAN |
| 22:52.40 | Shirik | Why would you give a company 10^34 addresses |
| 22:52.42 | DWSR | Adys: So? They won't. |
| 22:52.45 | Shirik | Adys, if they were morons, sure |
| 22:52.49 | nevcairiel | if they IANA hands out that big chunks, someone needs to slap them with something big |
| 22:52.49 | Adys | and they are |
| 22:52.54 | Adys | who the hell said they werent? |
| 22:53.04 | nevcairiel | -y |
| 22:53.06 | Dagmar | Adys: People like me who work at places that run an IPv6 backbone for I2 |
| 22:53.09 | Shirik | The whole IPv4 problem started with inefficient allocation |
| 22:53.15 | Shirik | you think that they aren't going to learn from mistakes? |
| 22:53.20 | Adys | yeah |
| 22:53.24 | DWSR | The IE3 are smart. |
| 22:53.26 | Adys | i think they arent going to learn from mistakes |
| 22:53.30 | *** join/#wowuidev spode (n=spode@85.134.127.203) |
| 22:53.33 | Shirik | Okay, well then there's no point in talking to you because you aren't going to listen to anyone else anyway |
| 22:53.35 | nevcairiel | Humans generally never learn from their past |
| 22:53.37 | Adys | how many wars have there been? |
| 22:53.41 | ZorbaTHut | shirik, in fairness, looking at the human race through history, we're really not good at learning from our mistakes :) |
| 22:53.44 | Jamash | they're handing out 0.00000000000000000000001% |
| 22:53.49 | Adys | Jamash: SHUT UP |
| 22:53.54 | ZorbaTHut | I mean, really really *really* not good at it. |
| 22:53.55 | DWSR | Adys: FUCK OFF. |
| 22:54.08 | Teomyr | Still, I think it's ridiculous to point at the people who allocated the IPv4 address blocks while at the same time giving blocks of 1208925819614629174706176 addresses to individuals now |
| 22:54.26 | Jamash | well, that's why they went to 128 instead of 64 |
| 22:54.31 | Adys | its not because NOW they're handing out x% addresses that in 5 years they'll hand out x% addresses |
| 22:54.41 | Jamash | so they could be absurdly profligate |
| 22:54.47 | Adys | stop thinking people are gonna be realistic |
| 22:54.52 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, honestly, I think some of my IPv6 worries came from some early comments that each computer would have its own /64, which really seemed like not-enough |
| 22:54.58 | Adys | stop thinking people are gonna be selfless etc |
| 22:55.10 | foxlit | Stop thinking and agree with Adys already. |
| 22:55.12 | ZorbaTHut | if they're handing out /48 to everyone, though, that's totally fine |
| 22:55.23 | Adys | foxlit: FINALLY something decent coming out of your mouth |
| 22:55.46 | DWSR | Adys: Do you understand how many 5 * 10^28 addresses per person is? |
| 22:55.50 | ZorbaTHut | at that point I retract my objections - any problems we have with IPv6 address space is probably going to take longer than it'll take for IP to become obsolete anyway |
| 22:55.59 | nevcairiel | who needs a freaking /48, give them a /8, or maybe a /16 .. thats like, alot of numbers |
| 22:56.06 | Adys | DWSR: yes, do you understand how many billion atoms there are in a single house? |
| 22:56.09 | Dagmar | By the time we have a problem with IPv6 the computers will tell us how to solve it |
| 22:56.15 | ZorbaTHut | nev, the nice thing about just handing out a /48 is you can make the application process ridiculously simple |
| 22:56.20 | Adys | did you ask whoever constructed it "aren't you using WAY too many atoms?"? |
| 22:56.20 | DWSR | Adys: You assume that someone's going to try and make an address for every one. |
| 22:56.24 | ZorbaTHut | Are you a legal entity? [ ] Yes, I am a person or company. [ ] No. |
| 22:56.30 | ZorbaTHut | If you checked "yes", you get a /48, which will be enough for you. |
| 22:56.35 | DWSR | Adys: I'm assuming that every person is going to be needing like.....5-10 addresses tops. |
| 22:56.42 | Shirik | But, ZorbaTHut, you even just did your own math, giving everyone a /48 |
| 22:56.43 | foxlit | Adys: Meh. I was going to suggest that you stick to "your mom" comments next. |
| 22:56.44 | Shirik | :) |
| 22:56.44 | Adys | DWSR: Im assuming people are gonna have million billions of unused addresses for every of their decives |
| 22:56.50 | DWSR | Adys: Why? |
| 22:56.55 | Adys | s/decives/devices/ |
| 22:56.55 | Shirik | Even with a /48 do you not think it's still a significant number of spaces? |
| 22:57.00 | nevcairiel | ZorbaTHut: but that way they cannot charge companys more for a bigger block! |
| 22:57.00 | ZorbaTHut | dwsr, I've got a static /29 right now, and it ain't enough. I'd love to have a /28 |
| 22:57.03 | Adys | DWSR: because PEOPLE ARE NOT REASONABLE. |
| 22:57.08 | DWSR | Adys: Wrong. |
| 22:57.14 | DWSR | SOME people are not reasonable. |
| 22:57.16 | ZorbaTHut | and I could honestly use a /24 or something, just for organizational purposes |
| 22:57.34 | ZorbaTHut | er, I think I've got that backwards |
| 22:57.41 | ZorbaTHut | you get the idea, I have 3 bits, I want 4, I'd love 8 :P |
| 22:57.50 | Adys | DWSR: imagine a giant cake |
| 22:57.51 | DWSR | As long as the people who are handing out the addresses are reasonable, then who gives a shit? |
| 22:57.57 | Adys | really, really giant cake |
| 22:58.00 | nevcairiel | they probably are not |
| 22:58.00 | Adys | a planet-sized cake |
| 22:58.06 | DWSR | Adys: Too small. |
| 22:58.09 | Jamash | ZorbaTHut: I was wondering what you were doing with a 8th of the internet before you corrected yourself |
| 22:58.10 | nevcairiel | they are americans, they live for money :P |
| 22:58.12 | DWSR | Universe sized cake. |
| 22:58.12 | Adys | you got enough to feed the entire earth |
| 22:58.14 | jennicide | can anyone suggest a UI that looks like mazzleui? |
| 22:58.15 | Adys | but |
| 22:58.18 | Adys | you got TEN PEOPLE |
| 22:58.22 | Jamash | jennicide: mazzleui |
| 22:58.27 | Adys | those ten people will eat for a HUNDRED BILLION people |
| 22:58.29 | ZorbaTHut | hmm, now I'm confusing myself |
| 22:58.30 | nevcairiel | i was gonna say that Jamash =( |
| 22:58.31 | Lopeppeppy | jennicide, nothing really looks like Mazzle, but you could try Spartan. |
| 22:58.37 | ZorbaTHut | I'm pretty sure it is written as a /29 |
| 22:58.40 | NightHawkTheSane | ~Jamash++ |
| 22:58.40 | jennicide | thanks for the help, jamash |
| 22:58.43 | Adys | actually they wont, but they'll appropriate the parts of a hundred billion people |
| 22:58.45 | ZorbaTHut | i.e. the / is the number of bits you *don't* have |
| 22:58.51 | jennicide | I hope you die in a fire |
| 22:58.52 | nevcairiel | in usual IPv4 notation, /32 is 0 bits |
| 22:58.56 | ZorbaTHut | if they're really handing out ipv6 /48's with that logic, I think that's too much |
| 22:59.03 | Lopeppeppy | jennicide, what on earth is that for? |
| 22:59.06 | nevcairiel | I think in ipv6 they reversed that logic |
| 22:59.06 | Adys | DWSR: and now your cake is gone |
| 22:59.09 | nevcairiel | or something |
| 22:59.13 | ZorbaTHut | if they reversed it with ipv6, it's fine, but |
| 22:59.14 | DWSR | Adys: rofl |
| 22:59.19 | ZorbaTHut | nev, I hope so |
| 22:59.30 | Adys | DWSR: we'll always run out of something finite |
| 22:59.36 | DWSR | Adys: Yeah, so? |
| 22:59.42 | Adys | and when this something finite is virtual |
| 22:59.44 | Teomyr | ZorbaTHut, a /48 block means you get 2^(128-48)=2^80=1208925819614629174706176 addresses |
| 22:59.45 | DWSR | You have to do something. |
| 22:59.48 | Adys | its ever so easy to run out of it in seconds |
| 22:59.55 | Jamash | clearly, Adys wants unlimited precision integers as addresses |
| 23:00.01 | Adys | I dont |
| 23:00.06 | Adys | maybe in 10 years YOU will |
| 23:00.07 | DWSR | You can't just add another octet to v4. |
| 23:00.14 | ZorbaTHut | huh, now I'm not totally happy about that :P although it's *probably* fine |
| 23:00.19 | Shirik | Okay, let's change subjects for a second |
| 23:00.20 | DWSR | There's a reason they skipped over v5. |
| 23:00.26 | ZorbaTHut | it looks like subnets on ipv6 are always /64's |
| 23:00.28 | Shirik | Let's look at it thsi way |
| 23:00.42 | Shirik | Is it arguable that, right now, every company that wants an IP address has at least 1 ipv4 address? |
| 23:00.44 | DWSR | People who are a hell of a lot smarter than you or I thought of this and said "this is the best way to do this" |
| 23:00.45 | nevcairiel | DWSR: the reason is that v5 was experimental and failed, not more, not less :P |
| 23:00.56 | DWSR | nevcairiel: Yeah. :) |
| 23:01.06 | DWSR | nevcairiel: IEEE learns from failure. |
| 23:01.07 | nevcairiel | It has nothing to do with "just adding an octec" |
| 23:01.09 | DWSR | anyway, dinnar timez. |
| 23:01.15 | nevcairiel | *octet |
| 23:01.20 | ZorbaTHut | shirik, I suspect most companies want far more than 1, but :) |
| 23:01.24 | Shirik | yes |
| 23:01.28 | Shirik | but bear with me for a second |
| 23:01.31 | Shirik | yes or no? |
| 23:01.35 | Adys | yes |
| 23:01.38 | ZorbaTHut | *nods* yes |
| 23:01.39 | nevcairiel | sure, yeah |
| 23:02.09 | Shirik | Okay, is it arguable that AT&T WorldNet services is one of the largest companies in need of an IP address space? |
| 23:02.38 | Adys | yes |
| 23:02.45 | Shirik | ok |
| 23:02.56 | Shirik | I've looked at AT&T's allocation of the IPv6 address space |
| 23:03.10 | Shirik | They have, quite literally, taken up the equivalent of 1 IP in the IPv4 address space |
| 23:03.30 | Adys | isnt that a lot |
| 23:03.33 | Jamash | yes |
| 23:03.34 | nevcairiel | it is |
| 23:03.36 | Shirik | that is a lot, yes |
| 23:03.48 | nevcairiel | yet we still have 4 billion of those |
| 23:03.51 | Shirik | But it also serves to prove that this would probably be the largest allocation given |
| 23:04.08 | Shirik | Most companies wouldn't come anywhere close -- in FACT, most companies would get a portion of this space |
| 23:04.15 | Shirik | because AT&T will redistribute these IPs |
| 23:04.29 | Adys | but I dont believe that |
| 23:04.41 | nevcairiel | Of course usually only ISPs get this big segments |
| 23:04.46 | Adys | "We got so much cake, why should we stick to what we have?" |
| 23:04.52 | nevcairiel | but you know, money buys big stuff |
| 23:04.53 | Shirik | I doubt most ISPs would even get that big |
| 23:05.01 | Adys | why not? |
| 23:05.08 | Adys | there is SO MUCH cake |
| 23:05.15 | Adys | for once in your life |
| 23:05.17 | Shirik | Adys: Again, you're taking the stupid approach |
| 23:05.18 | ZorbaTHut | I guess the problem as I see it is that we've added more IPs than we think we could ever use |
| 23:05.23 | Adys | you can be generous and give someone as much cake as he wants! |
| 23:05.27 | Shirik | You assume that we'll allocate these addresses stupidly |
| 23:05.32 | nevcairiel | its easier to type 5624::3456 as your adress, a long prefix is more to type |
| 23:05.33 | Adys | Shirik: yeah and Im assuming correctly |
| 23:05.36 | nevcairiel | so you buy that one :) |
| 23:05.38 | ZorbaTHut | and I think that's short-sighted, I think we should be adding the square of more than we think we could ever use :P |
| 23:05.39 | Xinhuan | who would need more than 640kb or ram!!!! |
| 23:05.43 | Adys | Xinhuan: aye |
| 23:05.45 | Shirik | Adys: Instead of me arguing with you, I'm just going to say this |
| 23:05.46 | Shirik | Prove it |
| 23:05.56 | Shirik | Are you miss cleo? |
| 23:05.57 | Adys | Shirik: ok, but give me some time |
| 23:05.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras (n=Sargeras@75.80.16.10) |
| 23:05.58 | Shadowed | waves hands in front of Shirik |
| 23:06.04 | Adys | Shirik: see you in 10 years |
| 23:06.29 | Teomyr | The problem appears to be that many people, including ourselves, appear to enjoy arguing about IPv6 more than actually implementing it :) |
| 23:06.33 | Adys | ipv6 is huge I never denied this |
| 23:06.48 | nevcairiel | I would rather have a huge cake right now :/ |
| 23:06.54 | Adys | hell yeah |
| 23:06.54 | Shirik | ZorbaTHut: Problem is you start running into physical layer limits if you go too big |
| 23:07.00 | Adys | but saying we'll "run out in a millenia" |
| 23:07.03 | Adys | is so fucking stupid |
| 23:07.05 | Shirik | MTUs exist for a reason |
| 23:07.07 | Adys | I want to get that quote |
| 23:07.08 | Adys | archive it |
| 23:07.09 | ZorbaTHut | shirik, well, that's the thing - the square of 128 bits is 256 bits |
| 23:07.19 | Shirik | I'm not talking about bandwith here, I'm talking about actual physical properties |
| 23:07.21 | Adys | get it for 10 years on every bloody most known websites i can get it on |
| 23:07.23 | ZorbaTHut | it's still not *that* much space taken up. exponential makes things really easy |
| 23:07.28 | Adys | and laugh so hysterically at whoever said that in 10 years |
| 23:07.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (n=Dune@208-104-142-238.rhhe1.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 23:07.54 | Shirik | nobody ever said we'll run out in a millenia, Adys |
| 23:07.54 | Jamash | I'll bet you 2^128 dollars |
| 23:07.57 | Jamash | I did |
| 23:08.00 | Adys | Shirik: scroll up |
| 23:08.03 | Shirik | oh ok |
| 23:08.06 | Shirik | well, I won't take that point |
| 23:08.21 | Shirik | But, I will argue IPv6 will be obsolete before we run out |
| 23:08.32 | Adys | yeah I can agree on that |
| 23:08.42 | Adys | if we are reasonable there is a chance it will last 30-40 years Ill take that too, maybe even 50 years who knows |
| 23:08.45 | Jamash | we'll all be communicating with quantum entangled multivalued logic |
| 23:08.54 | batrick | They will force address reallocation before they upgrade from IPV6 |
| 23:08.57 | Adys | that also implies there is no radical change in networking until ten |
| 23:09.00 | Adys | then** |
| 23:09.09 | Moleculor | YAY FOR... crap, what's the name of that called? |
| 23:09.22 | Adys | nat? |
| 23:09.33 | Jamash | the EPR paradox? The Bell inequality? |
| 23:09.33 | Shirik | If you really want to get into "space communications" and why we'll run out of IPs when we get that far |
| 23:09.36 | nevcairiel | radical changes in anything seem kinda slow these days |
| 23:09.36 | Moleculor | ... Orson Scott Card... Speaker For the Dead... the first book... quantum entanglement communications... |
| 23:09.41 | Jamash | ansibles |
| 23:09.42 | Lopeppeppy | Ansible? |
| 23:09.44 | Moleculor | ANSIBLES! |
| 23:09.44 | Shirik | I would begin to argue that TCP is inadequate for space communications |
| 23:09.47 | Adys | ansibles. |
| 23:10.00 | Jamash | TCP is wholly inappropriate for space communications |
| 23:10.02 | batrick | TCP is inadequate for space communications |
| 23:10.04 | batrick | they don't use it |
| 23:10.22 | Shirik | You would have to move to something like hamming codes |
| 23:10.25 | Shirik | of course |
| 23:10.26 | Shirik | that's my point |
| 23:10.34 | Shirik | Now granted IP and TCP are separate protocols |
| 23:10.39 | batrick | They have some extreme redudant protocols |
| 23:10.41 | Jamash | you would need an ansible to get tcp to work much past the orbit of the moon |
| 23:10.44 | Shirik | however I anticipate dropping TCP will result in a revamp of IP |
| 23:10.47 | ZorbaTHut | hamming code is a lot lower-level than "TCP" or "IP" |
| 23:10.53 | Jamash | it's not designed for minute-to-hour-to-day latency |
| 23:10.58 | Shirik | ZorbaTHut: Not exactly |
| 23:11.02 | Shirik | You can do it on the physical layer, sure |
| 23:11.14 | ZorbaTHut | you could certainly run TCP or IP on top of a hamming code layer, the problem is really just that tcp/ip is not designed for that kind of lag |
| 23:11.14 | Shirik | But the point is that TCP requires certain characteristics which are inadequate for space communications |
| 23:11.20 | Shirik | exactly |
| 23:11.22 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I agree that TCP is unsuitable |
| 23:11.26 | ZorbaTHut | just that hamming codes have nothing to do with it ;) |
| 23:11.33 | Shirik | No, I'm saying hamming codes are the resolution |
| 23:11.36 | Jamash | are hamming codes made of ham? |
| 23:11.44 | ZorbaTHut | jamash, error-correcting ham |
| 23:11.44 | Shirik | But when you implement them, you make TCP redundant |
| 23:11.47 | ZorbaTHut | the tastiest kind of ham |
| 23:11.54 | Shirik | so it would be logical to drop it |
| 23:11.59 | Shirik | Rather than hack it to make it work |
| 23:12.08 | nevcairiel | mmm error-correcting ham |
| 23:12.14 | Lopeppeppy | Mm, easter dinner |
| 23:12.21 | Shirik | has no easter dinner :( |
| 23:12.28 | batrick | :( |
| 23:12.29 | Shirik | that reminds me I should probably go to publix get something to eat |
| 23:12.40 | Lopeppeppy | hugs Shirik. |
| 23:12.49 | Lopeppeppy | I only have easter dinner because TKFT is still dissing his family. |
| 23:12.59 | Lopeppeppy | So I get to go visit them instead! |
| 23:13.11 | Shirik | TKFT? |
| 23:13.11 | *** join/#wowuidev spode- (n=spode@85.134.127.203) |
| 23:13.21 | Lopeppeppy | The ex. |
| 23:13.33 | Jamash | hey guys |
| 23:13.35 | Jamash | http://www.scps.org/ |
| 23:14.28 | nevcairiel | they based on TCP <.< |
| 23:14.30 | Shirik | I'm curious how much of TCP they kept |
| 23:15.07 | batrick | They probably didn't use any ofit |
| 23:15.08 | Shirik | I should go read that when I have the time |
| 23:15.28 | Jamash | they probably kept some of the data structures, but you're not going to get the three-way-handshake to work from here to mars |
| 23:15.30 | batrick | 6 minute RTT makes TCP worthless |
| 23:15.36 | batrick | in nearly all respects |
| 23:15.49 | Shirik | yes you definitely can't have a 3 way handshake |
| 23:15.52 | Shirik | it would take way too long |
| 23:16.17 | *** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics) |
| 23:16.20 | nevcairiel | great, the transport protocol pdf wont load |
| 23:16.24 | nevcairiel | the others work <.< |
| 23:16.38 | Adys | nevcairiel: check your network settings |
| 23:16.40 | Adys | HAR HAR HAR |
| 23:16.48 | Jamash | o ho ho |
| 23:16.51 | nevcairiel | ~lart Adys |
| 23:16.51 | purl | brandishes Excalibur! "With this sword, I vanquish thee, Adys!" and lops off Adys's head |
| 23:17.06 | Moleculor | Bah. Use a Vorpal sword. |
| 23:17.15 | Jamash | snicker snack! |
| 23:17.22 | batrick | O shit, NASA is announcing the name of the new space module on Colbert Report |
| 23:17.28 | Jamash | :-O |
| 23:17.36 | Shirik | rofl, nevcairiel |
| 23:17.38 | Shirik | same problem |
| 23:17.42 | Lopeppeppy | That's scary... since Colbert was one of the names proposed.... |
| 23:17.50 | Lopeppeppy | batrick, when is the announcement? |
| 23:17.52 | Shirik | however, chrome made a suggestion, nevcairiel |
| 23:17.56 | Shirik | oh shit |
| 23:17.58 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, it'll either go well or poorly |
| 23:17.59 | Shirik | it made the right suggestion |
| 23:18.05 | batrick | nasa.gov |
| 23:18.06 | Shirik | nevcairiel: l2chrome |
| 23:18.08 | ScytheBlade1 | They might need to double/triple the security guards on site, heh |
| 23:18.09 | Shirik | http://public.ccsds.org/publications/archive/714x0b1c1s.pdf |
| 23:18.09 | batrick | it's on front page |
| 23:19.08 | Jamash | "Corrigendum" is a funny word |
| 23:19.37 | Jamash | it makes me think of corrugated cardboard |
| 23:19.48 | Moleculor | Is it Serenity? |
| 23:20.01 | Shirik | actually, batrick, taking a 2 minute look at this document it does look like they still use the 3-way handshake |
| 23:20.02 | Moleculor | (i.e. Serenity Valley?) |
| 23:20.15 | Shirik | I would estimate that this protocol is designed for short-range space communications |
| 23:20.19 | Shirik | e.g., the space station |
| 23:20.55 | batrick | Handshakes are not unique to TCP |
| 23:21.06 | nevcairiel | they compressed the header though |
| 23:21.08 | Etanol | hahaha |
| 23:21.21 | Etanol | Handshakes are not unique to TCP since it is used IRL |
| 23:21.47 | Etanol | handhshakes are used by IRL::Social::Greet |
| 23:21.47 | Xinhuan | you don't do 3-way handshakes IRL |
| 23:22.09 | nevcairiel | They do use the three way handshake in their protocol though |
| 23:22.19 | Etanol | How does a 3way handshake work? |
| 23:22.29 | Shirik | SYN/SYNACK/ACK |
| 23:22.47 | Kaso | Is that the delayed store and forward mesh protocol type thing they are going to use for communicating between satellites you're talking about? |
| 23:23.12 | zenzelezz | sort of a "You there?" "Yes, are you?" "Yes" |
| 23:23.46 | nevcairiel | More like "Hi I'm Foo", "Hey there, i'm Bar", "Nice to meet you" |
| 23:23.46 | Moleculor | Now, do that at the speed of light between here and mars! |
| 23:24.02 | Etanol | So a handhshake is like a ping when starting a data transfer? |
| 23:24.08 | Shirik | Not really |
| 23:24.15 | zenzelezz | a TCP connection |
| 23:24.15 | Shirik | the handshake also handles some negotiation |
| 23:24.19 | Shirik | such as TCP window sizing |
| 23:24.27 | Xinhuan | wasn't the main point of a 3-way handshake because just because a packet can go from A-->B doesn't mean it can go from B->A? |
| 23:24.31 | Etanol | a tcp connection isnt static!!? |
| 23:24.52 | nevcairiel | Xinhuan: well you could do that with 2-way too |
| 23:24.52 | zenzelezz | you have to establish it at some point |
| 23:24.54 | Etanol | so what does it mean that a tcp connection is "established" |
| 23:25.19 | nevcairiel | established means it passed the handshake |
| 23:25.21 | Etanol | Isn't a handshake then a check that both ends are alive and ready? |
| 23:25.33 | Xinhuan | established is when A sends the ACK back to B |
| 23:25.43 | batrick | O dear |
| 23:25.49 | Shirik | Etanol: A handshake serves 3 purposes: Ensure existence, Ensure acceptance, and negotiation of parameters |
| 23:26.14 | nevcairiel | most notably the sequence numbers and the window size |
| 23:26.23 | Etanol | ah |
| 23:26.46 | Etanol | Does tcp have some kind of transfer check to see if there is packet losses during transfers? |
| 23:26.51 | Shirik | yes |
| 23:26.57 | Xinhuan | yes |
| 23:27.00 | Shirik | That's one of the purposes of the sequence number |
| 23:27.02 | Etanol | what is that called in tcp? |
| 23:27.02 | Xinhuan | there's many different ones in fact |
| 23:27.03 | nevcairiel | yes, thats where the sequence number comes in |
| 23:27.06 | Etanol | aha |
| 23:27.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@host81-157-50-54.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) |
| 23:27.11 | nevcairiel | when a number is skipped, you lost a package |
| 23:27.26 | nevcairiel | and you tell the sender which was the last one you got |
| 23:27.26 | Etanol | ooh |
| 23:27.27 | Etanol | smart |
| 23:27.30 | nevcairiel | and he sends from there again |
| 23:27.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (n=Sixen@173-25-20-69.client.mchsi.com) |
| 23:27.39 | Xinhuan | the sender resends from that number |
| 23:28.06 | Etanol | and the sequence number is bigger, the more packets you have to send? |
| 23:28.07 | Xinhuan | that is, if you received 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, you report 7 is missing, and the sender resends all of 7, 8, 9, 10 again etc |
| 23:28.27 | Xinhuan | that's the initial version |
| 23:28.33 | Shirik | The tricky part is how you determine 7 is missing |
| 23:28.34 | Shirik | :) |
| 23:28.48 | Shirik | Because just because you received 8 before 6 does not mean 7 is missing |
| 23:28.57 | Shirik | er |
| 23:28.59 | Shirik | 8 before 7 |
| 23:29.05 | batrick | It does for most TCP stacks shirik |
| 23:29.12 | Shirik | but it doesn't have to :P |
| 23:29.16 | Xinhuan | later implementations try to reduce/remove the redundancy of resending 8, 9, 10 which wasn't "missing" |
| 23:29.19 | nevcairiel | You could watch some timeouts |
| 23:29.26 | Etanol | can packets race ahead of eachother through waypoints? ;P |
| 23:29.31 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 23:29.34 | Xinhuan | yeah, if they use different routes |
| 23:29.35 | Shirik | Etanol: There's no guarantee they'll take the same path |
| 23:29.39 | batrick | It's possible but very unlikely |
| 23:29.42 | Etanol | haha |
| 23:29.44 | Etanol | crazy |
| 23:29.50 | Shirik | in reality, it almost always does, as batrick said |
| 23:29.58 | Xinhuan | also packets can have priority isn't it? |
| 23:30.10 | nevcairiel | I don't think those flags are actually implemented in TCP |
| 23:30.16 | nevcairiel | they are there .. but thats it iirc :P |
| 23:30.26 | Shirik | IPv6 kinda solves that problem anyway, Xinhuan |
| 23:30.28 | Arrowmaster | theres other reasons that they can become out of order even if they take the same path |
| 23:30.37 | Lopeppeppy | Here. Be distracted. http://www.playauditorium.com/ |
| 23:30.38 | Etanol | wouldn't priotitizing make it possible to "cheat", and get extra bandwidth? |
| 23:30.40 | Shirik | In IPv6 a set of packets can belong to a stream |
| 23:30.44 | zenzelezz | don't forget about the Evil Bit |
| 23:30.53 | Shirik | in which case the entire connection would have the same priority |
| 23:31.00 | batrick | Etanol: you wouldn't get extra bandwidth, just less dropped packets |
| 23:31.17 | Arrowmaster | throughput |
| 23:33.07 | Etanol | If you were to modify all sent packets with a "max priority" flag, what would that change when they pass a waypoint? |
| 23:33.21 | Etanol | that your packets get more priority than others? |
| 23:33.32 | Jamash | depends on whether the router supports the flag |
| 23:33.33 | nevcairiel | most routers ignore those flags |
| 23:33.33 | Xinhuan | it gets sent to the next hop before other packets |
| 23:33.40 | Xinhuan | but most routers ignore that flag |
| 23:34.12 | Shirik | Generally only intranets handle those flags, and only when it's necessary for the application |
| 23:34.16 | Xinhuan | usually only internal stuff within your own network would use those flags i think? |
| 23:34.39 | nevcairiel | especially the TCP flags are ignored, you might have some luck with the default Quality of Source/Type of Service flags in the IP header, but shrug |
| 23:34.48 | nevcairiel | usually not |
| 23:34.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@c-71-197-12-179.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 23:35.21 | nevcairiel | Its useful to use on your own router to prioritize low-latency traffic over bulk-high-payload traffic |
| 23:35.51 | Shirik | Such as when you have a roommate that downloads a million things at night whlie you're trying to play wow |
| 23:36.02 | Shirik | ^ true story |
| 23:36.20 | nevcairiel | I have SSH and IRC prioritized so i can still chat when i download |
| 23:36.21 | nevcairiel | hehe |
| 23:36.23 | Shirik | But I solved that by telling the router to limit his bandwidth to 500k |
| 23:36.28 | Arrowmaster | but thats usually done using rules setup on the router rather than listening to any flags in the headers |
| 23:36.33 | Shirik | yes Arrowmaster |
| 23:36.54 | nevcairiel | Well usually you implement that by having iptables and/or tc set those flags |
| 23:36.59 | Arrowmaster | by usually i mean 99.9999999999% of the time |
| 23:37.05 | nevcairiel | and let the routing part handle that |
| 23:37.29 | nevcairiel | I havent touched that for ages |
| 23:37.49 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-76-24-240-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 23:37.49 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 23:37.51 | Shirik | hwo appropriate |
| 23:37.53 | nevcairiel | My linux router works, and its that old that i'm afraid it'll stop working if i touch it |
| 23:37.53 | Shirik | how* |
| 23:38.09 | Shirik | "The IETF motto is 'rough consensus and running code'" |
| 23:38.09 | Shirik | -- Scott Bradner (Open Sources, 1999 O'Reilly and Associates) |
| 23:38.09 | Shirik | mpdelbuono@li23-154 ~ $ |
| 23:38.31 | batrick | Shirik: what OS do you use on your linode? |
| 23:38.33 | Arrowmaster | my linux router is just a wrt54gl |
| 23:38.35 | Shirik | gentoo |
| 23:38.45 | batrick | Have you been able to change the hostname? |
| 23:38.52 | batrick | never "sticks" for me |
| 23:38.59 | batrick | always changes back on restart |
| 23:39.02 | Shirik | mmmm how do you mean |
| 23:39.11 | nevcairiel | batrick: set dhcp to not set the hostname |
| 23:40.50 | mikma | shirik: you fight like a cow. |
| 23:40.56 | Shirik | o...k.... |
| 23:41.13 | mikma | <0237> <@Shirik> hwo appropriate |
| 23:41.18 | mikma | <0240> <mikma> shirik: you fight like a cow. |
| 23:41.22 | mikma | get it? |
| 23:41.29 | Shirik | no :/ |
| 23:41.49 | mikma | poor shirik |
| 23:41.59 | mikma | newer liked classic games |
| 23:42.37 | batrick | nevcairiel: where is that done, can't find anything useful about it on google |
| 23:42.39 | mikma | never* |
| 23:45.20 | Moleculor | World 4 of Braid. Ow. |
| 23:47.44 | Shirik | batrick: About all I can say is that it doesn't follow gentoo's configuration |
| 23:47.55 | Shirik | Mine is currently set up such that its hostname is localhost |
| 23:48.00 | Shirik | but as you can see, it shows up as li23-154 |
| 23:48.06 | Shirik | I've never cared enough to change it |
| 23:48.15 | batrick | I tried hostname <hostname> but it never stayed |
| 23:48.22 | batrick | when I restarted it would switch back |
| 23:48.30 | batrick | Just tried adding /etc/hostname |
| 23:48.34 | Shirik | reverse dns lookup is still right, etc. |
| 23:48.34 | batrick | but that will probably fail too |
| 23:48.42 | Shirik | you sure it's not /etc/conf.d/hostname ? |
| 23:48.47 | mikma | shirik: http://miwiki.net/images/Insult.jpg |
| 23:48.49 | Arrowmaster | because the dhcp is telling the system that its hostname should be li23-154 and its listening and changing it |
| 23:49.04 | batrick | No conf.d dir |
| 23:49.25 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: Like I said it's meaningless to me :) |
| 23:49.27 | batrick | Must be local dhcp, that's not even the result of RDNS for my host |
| 23:50.14 | Shirik | same |
| 23:52.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: if you want to change your reverse DNS, you have to change it in the linode control panel |
| 23:52.55 | foxlit | Someone should make /reload set a DND flag |
| 23:53.03 | Shirik | I did ScytheBlade1 |
| 23:53.08 | Shirik | points at Shiibot |
| 23:53.13 | Shirik | oh wait Shiibot has a mask |
| 23:53.19 | Shirik | but it's working right |
| 23:54.04 | ScytheBlade1 | Should have gone with shiibot.com imo |
| 23:54.12 | Adys | http://www.teomyr.eu/wowuidev/irc-quotes updated |
| 23:57.15 | Adys | http://www.teomyr.eu/wowwiki/irc-quotes?ids=278#quote-278 |
| 23:58.26 | nevcairiel | hahaha |
| 23:59.32 | Tuller | ...my gf just posed this question to me "What is Atari?" |
| 23:59.51 | nevcairiel | Clearly, you need a new one |
