| 00:02.03 | Shirik | your client doesn't require slash commands? |
| 00:05.14 | Hjalte | Yes, it does. It's just so long since I've tried going to a new server. |
| 00:06.09 | *** join/#wowuidev bleeter (n=bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 00:07.36 | kmcguire | cbreak: It is the resistance in the components from the current. Example is, use your power brick to supply something drawing 1w and measure the heat then use it to supply something like 100w and the heat difference would not be linear. It is the current in the components making the heat. |
| 00:07.56 | kmcguire | Not the conversion you know, from what I know. |
| 00:08.10 | Hjalte | Does anyone have a clue what could make a PHP page report a parse error at the end of the page? - It's worked fine before and now there is suddenly something wrong. |
| 00:08.21 | *** join/#wowuidev iradiation (n=bobdole@adsl-75-4-142-4.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:08.30 | iradiation | www.azerothgold.com is the best site for all your gold buying needs! |
| 00:08.32 | *** part/#wowuidev iradiation (n=bobdole@adsl-75-4-142-4.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:10.11 | alestane | Cairenn|afk, Seerah, Shirik, Iriel: Is that something a channel operator should address? |
| 00:10.13 | *** join/#wowuidev iradiation (n=bobdole@adsl-75-4-142-4.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:10.28 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [-o iradiation] by Shirik |
| 00:10.28 | *** kick/#wowuidev [iradiation!n=Shirik@conspiracy/developer/Shirik] by Shirik (gtfo) |
| 00:10.31 | Shirik | er |
| 00:10.37 | *** join/#wowuidev iradiation (n=bobdole@adsl-75-4-142-4.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:10.43 | Cairenn|afk | grrrrr |
| 00:10.51 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [-bb *!*@mail.pcs1.net *!*@prov-S10-1-0-65-acc01.bva.embratel.net.br] by Shirik |
| 00:10.58 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [-o+b iradiation *!*n=bobdole@adsl-75-4-142-4.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] by Shirik |
| 00:10.58 | *** kick/#wowuidev [iradiation!n=Shirik@conspiracy/developer/Shirik] by Shirik (gtfo #2) |
| 00:11.09 | Shirik | thanks alestane |
| 00:11.36 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [-bbbb *!*=62d998ff@gateway/web/* *!?=ca80dee1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/* *!?=d4bbc24a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/* *!*@212.187.194.74] by Shirik |
| 00:11.36 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [-bb *!*.*@121.221.154.85 45cda412!*@*] by Shirik |
| 00:11.42 | Shirik | that should be good for a while |
| 00:11.45 | Shirik | Stupid ban list was full |
| 00:11.46 | Cairenn|afk | was already on it, but thanks :) |
| 00:12.25 | Shirik | now let me get back to applying for internships! |
| 00:13.16 | Cide | no |
| 00:14.12 | Duman | lol |
| 00:15.28 | Duman | why are there nick-based bans in the ban list? :) |
| 00:16.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@host81-157-118-225.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) |
| 00:16.54 | Cairenn|afk | because occasionally we ban a name instead of an IP because it's a warning to the user and we are giving them the chance to *not* try to circumvent it |
| 00:18.14 | alestane | i.e. take your medicine like a good boy. Jump back in the channel on another nick and keep haranguing people, and you're history. |
| 00:18.28 | Cairenn|afk | yup, exactly |
| 00:18.46 | Dagmar | Luckily, I can now waste a support person's time on that site |
| 00:18.58 | Cairenn|afk | it depends entirely on why we are banning them |
| 00:19.03 | alestane | aka, wake up and smell the asshole. |
| 00:19.08 | Cairenn|afk | Dagmar: ? |
| 00:19.10 | alestane | Er. |
| 00:19.18 | alestane | That came out a little weird, sorry. |
| 00:19.18 | Dagmar | The site he was spamming for |
| 00:19.23 | Shirik | o.o |
| 00:19.25 | Dagmar | They have a live online chat link |
| 00:19.25 | Shirik | wtf does this mean |
| 00:19.28 | Shirik | "Position may be hired at a 61/62. Final grade determination will be based on requirements of the position and qualifications of the candidate." |
| 00:19.30 | Dagmar | They claim they don't spam |
| 00:19.42 | Cairenn|afk | ah |
| 00:19.48 | Cairenn|afk | go to it :) |
| 00:19.53 | Dagmar | Just like I claim I don't actually harass websites with floods of ficticious orders |
| 00:20.33 | *** join/#wowuidev WobWork (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:20.57 | Shirik | This is a good position though |
| 00:20.59 | Shirik | Herndon, VA |
| 00:21.03 | Shirik | That's like 10 minutes from my house |
| 00:21.13 | Dagmar | danielk; Ah... Probably much better than anything in Huntsville |
| 00:21.26 | Dagmar | er s/danielk/Shirik/; |
| 00:21.34 | Shirik | How did you screw that up |
| 00:21.45 | Dagmar | Nick completion's been taking LSD I suspect |
| 00:22.03 | Shirik | But I really want to know what this "grade" thing is :P |
| 00:22.12 | Shirik | They don't make any other mention of it except that |
| 00:22.28 | Nechckn_AFK | likely their internal pay grades |
| 00:22.37 | Shirik | oh |
| 00:22.58 | Nechckn_AFK | many job adds contain such things that really make no sense, since you don't know what those grades actually mean. |
| 00:23.02 | |Jelly| | http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Burning+Legion&n=Seasecon so all my gems and chants disappeared. |
| 00:23.54 | alestane | Shirik: That is most likely pay grade information, and indicates that they may have posted the job internally first. Is it something like a local government or non-profit job (i.e., a university)? |
| 00:24.01 | Duman | jelly: did your gear break? |
| 00:24.02 | Shirik | It's an internship position, actually |
| 00:24.12 | Adys | hehe |
| 00:24.20 | Adys | just finished frostwyrm daily without losing any hp |
| 00:24.30 | |Jelly| | Duman: Yeah ... relogged and good to go. <3 |
| 00:24.37 | Duman | jelly: heh yeah |
| 00:25.21 | Nechckn_AFK | Shirik It could even be something that a "61" is a non-stipend internship and a "62" gets $$ - you'd have to inquire. |
| 00:26.08 | Nechckn_AFK | If you ended up getting it, then you'd be close for a long time. Hmm... =) |
| 00:27.55 | Dagmar | No money == "not a job" |
| 00:28.50 | Dagmar | Tanthrix: Clicking the button in MythWeb |
| 00:28.52 | Dagmar | @#$@ |
| 00:29.33 | Shirik | which reminds me Nechckn_AFK |
| 00:29.36 | Shirik | I'm going up to VA next week |
| 00:30.22 | Nechckn_AFK | starting tomorrow or the following Sun/Mon? |
| 00:30.37 | Shirik | weeks start on sunday, hun |
| 00:30.40 | Shirik | next week is 7 days from now |
| 00:30.59 | Nechckn_AFK | Um.. to some they do, to many they don't. Hence my query =P |
| 00:31.36 | Nechckn_AFK | Will have to check on it, if you remind me later in the week, maybe we can set something up. |
| 00:32.34 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim^ (n=p3lim@084202164112.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 00:37.43 | *** join/#wowuidev unitxt (n=unitxt@74-60-186-186.ral.clearwire-dns.net) |
| 00:46.55 | *** part/#wowuidev unitxt (n=unitxt@74-60-186-186.ral.clearwire-dns.net) |
| 00:53.42 | |Jelly| | Is there only one quest for the Venture Coins? |
| 00:55.23 | kd3 | http://www.wowwiki.com/Grizzly_Hills_quests#PvP |
| 00:56.15 | |Jelly| | thank you! :) |
| 00:57.12 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=sioraioc@78-86-82-152.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 01:02.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Legorol (n=legorol@stud-nat-blk12.trin.cam.ac.uk) |
| 01:02.19 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 01:04.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=Shirik@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 01:04.09 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 01:04.40 | Shirik | okay, I think I've asked this before, but I'm going to ask it again just because |
| 01:04.44 | Shirik | Does anyone notice a difference in loading time between http://heresiarchguild.com and http://www.heresiarchguild.com |
| 01:05.09 | Shirik | I'm talking significant and noticable here |
| 01:05.38 | NightHawkTheSane | not significant |
| 01:06.02 | NightHawkTheSane | the latter seemed maybe a second or two slower.. but that could be anything, including my own perception ;) |
| 01:06.13 | Shirik | the former definitely seems about 20 seconds slower here |
| 01:06.14 | Shirik | all the time |
| 01:06.39 | Shirik | I'm convinced my IT throttles any connections which aren't to something with www in the URL |
| 01:06.44 | Shirik | but how they could possibly do that, I have no idea |
| 01:06.53 | |Jelly| | 20:06:05] [Y] [Magicdps]: WELCOME to magicdps casino, Roll 60+ and get double 90+ get triple. Bids are 1g minamum and 5g maximum!!! And its right in the middle of Dalaran! pst me for [inv] |
| 01:06.58 | |Jelly| | isn't that against the tos? lol |
| 01:07.06 | kd3 | ya |
| 01:07.07 | Shirik | It used to be at least |
| 01:07.12 | NightHawkTheSane | read the ToS and find out? |
| 01:07.21 | Stanzilla | people got banned for that on my realm |
| 01:07.34 | |Jelly| | two people answered in the time it took you to write that NHTS. Think about the time I just saved. |
| 01:07.48 | Dagmar | It still is against the ToS |
| 01:08.04 | NightHawkTheSane | |Jelly|: but think about the greater global understanding you would have had by actually reading and understanding, instead of taking someone elses word for it. |
| 01:08.58 | |Jelly| | bah |
| 01:09.17 | Shirik | I would like to know HOW it's against the ToS |
| 01:09.20 | Shirik | like, what extent |
| 01:09.49 | Dagmar | It's the "anything that attracts asian gangsters" clause |
| 01:10.14 | Dagmar | Plus, it's _always_ fraud. |
| 01:10.52 | NightHawkTheSane | YOU'RE always fraud |
| 01:11.10 | Shirik | (vii)Participate in any action that, in the sole and absolute opinion of Blizzard, results or may result in an authorized user of the Game being "scammed" or defrauded out of gold, weapons, armor, or any other items that user has earned through authorized game play in the Game; |
| 01:11.10 | ZorbaBeta | it's not fraud if they give the exact rules and abide by them |
| 01:11.11 | Shirik | that one? |
| 01:11.26 | mikma | shirik: ban ban ban! |
| 01:11.34 | mikma | i always report those "casino" players |
| 01:11.37 | Shirik | I'm wondering this because like |
| 01:11.37 | Dagmar | ZorbaBeta: And this is enforceable how? |
| 01:11.52 | Shirik | What if someone were to gamble for, instead of gold, perhaps DKP |
| 01:11.52 | Dagmar | There are no "legit" casinos online |
| 01:11.59 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, I've had people mail me materials to craft stuff |
| 01:12.06 | ZorbaBeta | that's equally unenforcable, and yet isn't bannable. |
| 01:12.13 | ZorbaBeta | the possibility of fraud does not imply the existence of fraud. |
| 01:12.14 | Dagmar | ZorbaBeta: So what |
| 01:12.31 | kd3 | http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?articleId=20459 |
| 01:12.37 | Lukian | <Shirik> I would like to know HOW it's against the ToS |
| 01:12.44 | Dagmar | Your house being on fire doesn't necessarily mean the entire thing will burn to the ground, but people call the fire department anyway. |
| 01:12.45 | Dagmar | Sissies. |
| 01:12.52 | Lukian | You aren't allowed to hold any "events" which require gold to participate |
| 01:13.04 | mikma | shirik: well DKP is something you can't "own" ingame? |
| 01:13.04 | ZorbaBeta | I don't see how that applies, but yes, you're correct :P |
| 01:13.13 | Shirik | mikma: Thus my question ;) |
| 01:13.18 | Dagmar | "Participate in any action that, in the sole and absolute opinion of Blizzard" |
| 01:13.22 | Dagmar | Are you Blizzard? |
| 01:13.24 | Shirik | It still can be considered "defrauded out of ... weapons, armor" |
| 01:13.29 | Dagmar | If not, your opinion doesn't count. |
| 01:13.29 | ZorbaBeta | I never said it was legal, yo |
| 01:13.31 | Dagmar | QQ all you like |
| 01:13.38 | ZorbaBeta | I said it wasn't fraud |
| 01:13.43 | Dagmar | You'd be wrong. |
| 01:13.45 | mikma | shirik: that's a good one actually, let us know what you find out with your wicked tentacleroutes to blizzard |
| 01:13.51 | ZorbaBeta | are you blizzard? :P |
| 01:13.53 | Shirik | my what? |
| 01:13.57 | ZorbaBeta | because if not, your opinion doesn't count either. |
| 01:14.07 | mikma | you heard me weirdo! |
| 01:14.07 | Shirik | I have no intention of trying this :P |
| 01:14.08 | ZorbaBeta | I suspect that if they do ban it under that clause, they count it under "scam" |
| 01:14.13 | Shirik | I just was raising a point |
| 01:14.23 | Dagmar | Except my opinion happens to side with Blizzard, historical trends, and current facts. |
| 01:14.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Syzgyn (n=ghost429@24-178-70-94.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com) |
| 01:14.33 | ZorbaBeta | no, you're completely ignoring what I'm saying |
| 01:14.40 | Dagmar | that's right. |
| 01:15.02 | ZorbaBeta | I'm not saying that it's allowed. I agree it's banned. I just disagree that it's counted under "fraud". it's not fraud in the legal sense, and I highly doubt that blizzard has invented a new definition of the word when they don't even need one |
| 01:15.04 | mikma | wasn't there a "snap" library that was able to dock frames to each other when they come close? |
| 01:15.24 | Syzgyn | So why is it I can get on IRC, get on WoW, even ping google.com, but I can't get Opera or Firefox to load a web page? |
| 01:15.31 | Dagmar | It might have something to do with the fact that I've been around long enough to know that in MMOs, players trying to run "casinos" or "lotteries" or anything like that are almost completely without variation, looking to scam other players. |
| 01:15.38 | Dagmar | Syzgyn: Malware. |
| 01:15.43 | Syzgyn | Ugh |
| 01:15.58 | Syzgyn | fuck you're right |
| 01:16.01 | bleeter | funny thingh abnout the casino stuff |
| 01:16.06 | Syzgyn | other pages are loading |
| 01:16.09 | Syzgyn | goddamnit |
| 01:16.11 | bleeter | is that last I looked, it's still explicitly against EU rules |
| 01:16.16 | ZorbaBeta | dagmar, sure, I can believe "scam". But fraud implies that they're doing something other than what they claim to be doing, and most of the casinos are calculated so that they're profitable under the terms of the casino |
| 01:16.22 | ZorbaBeta | meaning that they don't need to "break their rules" to turn a profit |
| 01:16.25 | bleeter | but nothing on the US pages about it, explicitly. |
| 01:16.32 | Gnarfoz | bleeter: it's against US rules, too, we don't have different ToS |
| 01:16.35 | bleeter | even the old CM post about it is MIA |
| 01:16.44 | Dagmar | How is a scam not fraud |
| 01:16.45 | ZorbaBeta | bleeter, I seem to recall it was removed recently, and there were some comments about it |
| 01:16.46 | Shirik | I do like Blizzard's "example scam" |
| 01:16.48 | bleeter | Gnarfoz: yeah, it's against the rules. but there's nothing like the AntiGold page |
| 01:16.49 | Shirik | Example: [Scammer] says: Give me your sword and I will enchant it. *Victim hands sword to scammer* [Scammer] says: ROFL NEWB! Thanks for the sword! |
| 01:16.53 | Dagmar | What, what do I care. Into the ignore list you go |
| 01:16.58 | Shirik | they even got the caps lock right |
| 01:17.05 | bleeter | the ANtiGold page is easy to point folks at. there's nothing US side for casinos that's similar |
| 01:17.05 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: lol ;D |
| 01:17.20 | Gnarfoz | is there something on the EU page, then, bleeter? |
| 01:17.20 | ZorbaBeta | welp, I was going to respond, but guess I won't bother :) |
| 01:17.24 | bleeter | all one can do is point them at EU explicit rule, and then ppl say 'oh EU' |
| 01:17.28 | bleeter | Gnarfoz: yar |
| 01:17.36 | Dagmar | Silly trolls trying pedantry |
| 01:17.39 | Gnarfoz | it has nothing to do with EU |
| 01:17.39 | Shirik | ZorbaBeta: s/most/all/ |
| 01:17.42 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: you're the troll, lol |
| 01:18.00 | Dagmar | Gnarfoz: No, I'm the guy who can actually read the TOS |
| 01:18.02 | Shirik | No intelligent casino has games tuned to be non-profitable :P |
| 01:18.05 | ZorbaBeta | shirik, I wouldn't say all, I suspect there are some exceptionally stupid casino owners who don't know how to calculate that ;) |
| 01:18.07 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: he can, too. |
| 01:18.12 | ZorbaBeta | (I mean online casino, not real-world casino) |
| 01:18.13 | Dagmar | The troll is the one wanting to debate meanings of words as if that somehow changes facts. |
| 01:18.16 | Shirik | ah |
| 01:18.16 | Shirik | ok |
| 01:18.23 | Shirik | that I might believe a little more |
| 01:18.29 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: you're that one. |
| 01:18.46 | ZorbaBeta | actually there's a few historical cases of real-world casinos miscalculating odds and giving out money until they figured it out |
| 01:18.47 | ZorbaBeta | but it's rare :) |
| 01:18.51 | Shirik | hah |
| 01:18.52 | Dagmar | Gnarfox: Which word was I supposedly challenging the meaning of? |
| 01:18.54 | Shirik | I wish I were there :( |
| 01:19.00 | bleeter | anyways, wtf cares... certainly not I. I'm still waiting to win a WG legitimately.. wtf should I care about ingame casinos\ |
| 01:19.00 | Gnarfoz | Dagmar: Fraud, obviously |
| 01:19.11 | Dagmar | Okay, so into the ignore list with you as well |
| 01:19.14 | Shirik | That being said, I've never lost money at a blackjack table |
| 01:19.16 | Gnarfoz | also, l2 tabcomplete |
| 01:19.34 | Gnarfoz | Shirik: me neither, but I've not been at one |
| 01:19.40 | Dagmar | Shirik: I could say that until my third day during Defcon |
| 01:19.51 | bleeter | my friends won't play me at blackjack anymore :( |
| 01:19.56 | Gnarfoz | there should be a US rule against people on IRC named like my mom! |
| 01:20.07 | Shirik | But, a friend of mine taught me a good trick about how not to go too negative |
| 01:20.17 | Shirik | As you're winning, take some chips and put them in your pocket |
| 01:20.23 | Shirik | When you run out of chips on the table, you're done |
| 01:20.24 | Dagmar | Walk away from the table while you can still afford to buy your own drinks? |
| 01:20.29 | Shirik | no taking them back out of your pocket |
| 01:20.36 | Shirik | (Until you get to the cashier) |
| 01:21.21 | Shirik | Dagmar: There's a corrolary to that |
| 01:21.29 | Shirik | When with a friend, ensure he wins more than you so he buys the drinks |
| 01:21.47 | Dagmar | Oh. I was going to say "walk away from the table while you can still afford to buy your own strippers?" |
| 01:22.23 | Shirik | surprisingly, a casino is where I had my first mixed drink |
| 01:22.34 | Shirik | 2 bad habits at once |
| 01:22.41 | Shirik | (my first casino, for that matter) |
| 01:23.03 | Dagmar | I had my first mixed drink in a gay bar, but I'm still and always have been straight. |
| 01:23.07 | Shirik | ... |
| 01:23.42 | Dagmar | Casinos are much easier to deal with if you simply admit to yourself that you're paying someone to make an elaborate show out of dealing cards. |
| 01:24.01 | Shirik | true :) |
| 01:24.11 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/bshit/angmardemands.jpg |
| 01:24.20 | Shirik | I tend to think of it this way |
| 01:24.24 | Dagmar | I don't game, but I have been known to pay someone $100 bucks to show me what they can do to a deck of cards |
| 01:24.26 | Shirik | if I'm going to lose money, it's a fun way to lose money |
| 01:24.28 | Dagmar | s/game/gamble/; |
| 01:24.30 | ZorbaBeta | I've heard that you can technically make a "profit" off the free drinks and food that you get. although it sounds like an exceptionally dull way to get cheap meat and booze ;) |
| 01:24.40 | WobWork | Shirik: You should have started smoking while you were at it |
| 01:24.41 | Shirik | And you can actually get a decent amount of entertainment out of $100 |
| 01:24.44 | Shirik | WobWork: no |
| 01:24.55 | Dagmar | Shirik: Put a dollar in a g-string and win every @#$@ time is what I do in Vegas |
| 01:25.31 | WobWork | Dagmar: you obviously have much more leinient strippers if a dollar is all you need to get a !@#$ time =) |
| 01:25.52 | Dagmar | Dude, at Cheetah's they'll pour the drinks right into your mouth while they sit on your lap. |
| 01:25.58 | Dagmar | Kitchy, but still fun |
| 01:26.52 | Dagmar | I'm not trying to *grope* strippers for a buck. That would be ungentlemanly |
| 01:27.24 | Dagmar | ...and crass and horrible and a bunch of other things. |
| 01:28.12 | WobWork | heavens! |
| 01:28.25 | WobWork | we can't have ungentlemanly behaviour with strippers in the room! |
| 01:28.29 | Dagmar | Hey, just because they're naked doesn't mean you go takin' liberties |
| 01:30.49 | Cairenn|afk | ^^ |
| 01:34.44 | Cairenn|afk | what would be going through my mind? I was just agreeing with Dagmar |
| 01:35.05 | Dagmar | I thought you were implying something along the lines of "...and he says he's straight" |
| 01:35.12 | Cairenn|afk | it's a job, just like any other - you don't go disrespecting a cashier or a flight attendant or ... |
| 01:35.18 | Cairenn|afk | why would you disrespect a stripper |
| 01:35.32 | Dagmar | because some guys are total savages just waiting for a bouncer to happen |
| 01:35.38 | Cairenn|afk | yeah, well |
| 01:35.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (n=Jamash@75-25-130-215.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:36.43 | ZorbaBeta | can't believe I'm regularly buying saronite bars at vendor price |
| 01:37.01 | WobWork | there's an idea |
| 01:37.07 | WobWork | I have so much saronite it's terrible |
| 01:37.15 | bleeter | ZorbaBeta: saronite's below vendor on my realm |
| 01:37.31 | Dagmar | ALl the miners being at max level have completely saturated that market |
| 01:37.34 | Shirik | 463E3F5GT,NMI./O' |
| 01:37.43 | Gnarfoz | Shirik: totally agree |
| 01:37.46 | ZorbaBeta | I wonder if there's anything worth crafting and disenchanting |
| 01:37.47 | Gnarfoz | fu WobWork :( |
| 01:37.49 | Shirik | and that's what happens when you drop a book on a laptop |
| 01:37.50 | WobWork | hehe |
| 01:37.54 | Dagmar | I've been pimping my guild leader's engineering to bring down the price of ultrasafes |
| 01:37.58 | ZorbaBeta | at this point I'd honestly be surprised if there wasn't |
| 01:38.00 | foxlit | really? |
| 01:38.14 | WobWork | what's the vendor price for a stack of saronite? |
| 01:38.16 | foxlit | that's quite a bit of bouncing. |
| 01:38.36 | Dagmar | It's amazing how many boxes of bullets you can move at a 15% margin when everyone else is trying to get 50-80% |
| 01:38.41 | ZorbaBeta | wob, 1.25/bar, so, 25g I guess |
| 01:39.10 | Shirik | I'm curious to see the responses |
| 01:39.15 | ZorbaBeta | the annoying thing about bullet boxes is just how much space they take up |
| 01:39.23 | Jamash | you'd think it'd be better to prospect the ore |
| 01:39.30 | Dagmar | Well, now that bullets stack to 1,000 on the PTR, yeah |
| 01:39.31 | Shirik | If I ask you to estimate a product (software) size, what metric would you use to tell me its size? |
| 01:39.38 | Dagmar | They stack better than the bullets on Live do tho |
| 01:39.42 | ZorbaBeta | whoa, they do? nice |
| 01:39.45 | bleeter | Jamash: *think* being the key word there, some ppl don't |
| 01:39.48 | bleeter | actually.. many |
| 01:39.50 | ZorbaBeta | man, hunter bags are suddenly huge |
| 01:40.00 | Jamash | cubic centons |
| 01:40.02 | bleeter | ur huge |
| 01:40.16 | Dagmar | They're not huge, they're basically obsolete |
| 01:40.31 | ZorbaBeta | shirik, about 120 mm wide. |
| 01:40.32 | Jamash | a regular 20 slot bag can now hold 20,000 arrows |
| 01:40.40 | Shirik | It was a serious question :< |
| 01:40.42 | Jamash | so really why have a quiver |
| 01:40.44 | ZorbaBeta | that is a horrifying number of arrows |
| 01:40.50 | ZorbaBeta | jamash, attack speed bonus? |
| 01:40.58 | Dagmar | They're getting rid of quivers and ammo bags is why |
| 01:41.00 | Jamash | zorba: gone |
| 01:41.01 | kd3 | nope. that's built in to the cast time |
| 01:41.02 | ZorbaBeta | ah |
| 01:41.04 | ZorbaBeta | alright then :) |
| 01:41.08 | Dagmar | ...becasue we're tired of getting screwed out of slots to carry loot in |
| 01:41.16 | ZorbaBeta | are they making soul shards stack also? |
| 01:41.20 | Jamash | not yet |
| 01:41.21 | Dagmar | I dunno. |
| 01:41.22 | Jamash | which is sad |
| 01:41.25 | kd3 | http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_3.1.0#Hunters |
| 01:41.26 | ZorbaBeta | seems like they should |
| 01:41.28 | Dagmar | Locks at least can get away with using regular bags |
| 01:41.58 | bleeter | Shirik: prolly some bug report ratio to fix rate over bits of the code that do work |
| 01:41.58 | Jamash | I have a warlock and a hunter, so I'm sad on one hand but happy on the other |
| 01:42.09 | Shirik | There can't be bug reports |
| 01:42.13 | Dagmar | They don't cast 13% slower because they didn't use a shard bag |
| 01:42.15 | Shirik | This is size estimate, pre-creation |
| 01:42.21 | bleeter | ah |
| 01:42.39 | bleeter | well you can still make guesstimates if you know the productivity of the coders concerned |
| 01:42.54 | bleeter | good guesses too |
| 01:43.02 | Shirik | well yes, but what do you use? What is the metric? |
| 01:43.06 | Shirik | If I wanted you to tell me a number |
| 01:43.08 | Shirik | what would it be |
| 01:43.16 | Dagmar | WTFs per minute, probably |
| 01:43.18 | bleeter | you really want me to dig out my 1st year comp sci notes? :P |
| 01:43.22 | bleeter | Dagmar: basically, aye |
| 01:43.31 | Jamash | debugged lines of code? |
| 01:43.36 | ZorbaBeta | shirik, I think the only sane way to measure "software size" is in coder-years |
| 01:43.48 | ZorbaBeta | there's no other metric that makes any sort of sense, IMHO |
| 01:43.50 | Shirik | There can't be "bug reports" or "debugged lines of code" because it hasn't been made yet |
| 01:43.52 | Dagmar | Alternatively, you can just check the blood pressure of the team lead |
| 01:44.15 | bleeter | code that doesn't need maintenance is a lot smaller than code that needs lots, whether the 'size' of the code remains static or not |
| 01:44.26 | Jamash | anyone read the mythical man month? |
| 01:44.27 | bleeter | so yeah WTF works |
| 01:44.36 | Shirik | I need to, Jamash |
| 01:44.40 | Jamash | it's very good |
| 01:44.55 | Iriel | We do sizing in person hours |
| 01:45.02 | Shirik | yay, a real answer |
| 01:45.10 | Shirik | well, ZorbaBeta had a real answer too |
| 01:45.12 | Iriel | (developer hours, plus business analyst hours, plus QA hours, plus infrastructure(deployment) hours) |
| 01:45.18 | bleeter | Iriel: is that weighted against productivity at all? |
| 01:45.26 | bleeter | k |
| 01:45.29 | ZorbaBeta | hmm dammit I'm zorbabeta again |
| 01:45.30 | Iriel | bleeter: Well, it helps to know who the developers are |
| 01:45.32 | bleeter | kinda what I said |
| 01:45.33 | Iriel | but it's just a guess |
| 01:45.37 | ZorbaTHut | I swear I need to rig up a script to change that |
| 01:45.57 | Shirik | I'm supposed to write a paper on "Function Points" to estimate |
| 01:45.59 | Iriel | It's up to Project/Program managers to factor in risk and whatever |
| 01:46.11 | Shirik | which I, admittedly, had never heard of before |
| 01:46.23 | Iriel | Well there are a bunch of "formal" techniques to figure out how complicated something is |
| 01:46.30 | Dagmar | Shirik: Such things are usually invented by people who do not actually code |
| 01:46.34 | Jamash | oh, it's *homework* |
| 01:46.42 | Shirik | Jamash: My question was out of curiosity |
| 01:46.47 | Shirik | the question is not going to help me write a 10 page paper :P |
| 01:46.56 | Jamash | in that case you're expected to come up with the predetermined answer, not the right answer :P |
| 01:46.58 | Iriel | the advantage of those kinds of formal estimates is you can do them "objectively" based on past experience, which sort of speaks to what bleeter was saying |
| 01:47.19 | Shirik | My question was directed more at whether people have experience using it, just to take a poll |
| 01:47.26 | Iriel | If you know project X cost you 1 million dollars, and project Y has 50% more function points, then there's a good chance project Y will cost you 1.5 million dollars |
| 01:47.55 | bleeter | as long as coders are same |
| 01:47.57 | mikma | ONE BILLION DOLLARS! |
| 01:48.00 | Iriel | helps on the whole risk/guesswork side.. of course, it's still all a guess, and there's almost always subjective consisderations |
| 01:48.02 | bleeter | OVER 9000!!!! |
| 01:48.05 | WobWork | well, take those developer hours, multiply by at least 1.3 then use that number |
| 01:48.18 | kd3 | ^ |
| 01:48.23 | Iriel | I usually guess how long it'd take me to do something, and multiply it by 4 |
| 01:48.29 | Shirik | WobWork: You should take my class :) |
| 01:48.30 | Dagmar | Nowadays there's a fine line between actually giving useful metrics to management, and simply scribbling something down on a napkin for them to fax to Mumbai while you polish your resume up |
| 01:48.34 | bleeter | over 11700? |
| 01:48.39 | Iriel | because (a) i'm too much of an optimist and (b) lots of people are slow 8-) |
| 01:48.46 | kd3 | yay for subscribers to the scotty method of guestimating ETAs |
| 01:48.50 | Jamash | Iriel: that's the Cmdr. Scot method |
| 01:48.50 | mikma | bleeter: lolz |
| 01:48.52 | bleeter | oh, over 36000! |
| 01:48.58 | Jamash | kd3: beat me to it |
| 01:49.02 | Shirik | The problem, as argued in my class, is not that people come up with estimates off the top of their head without any real guess, but rather that management asks the wrong questions |
| 01:49.02 | Dagmar | Scotty always said to double it |
| 01:49.06 | Iriel | Well, the scott method would pad it so the real answer is a miracle, I dont get away with that |
| 01:49.08 | Dagmar | ...if I remember correctly. |
| 01:49.10 | WobWork | You'll also need to multiply out depending on how many people on the project itself |
| 01:49.12 | Shirik | Example: Project manager should not ask "How long do you think it will take you to do this?" |
| 01:49.22 | mikma | "one week" |
| 01:49.25 | bleeter | I like to double then round up to nearest prime |
| 01:49.27 | kd3 | ya, he said 'I take the amount of time I think it'll take and double it' |
| 01:49.39 | WobWork | because you -will- end up spending that time |
| 01:49.44 | WobWork | and if not, then yay! |
| 01:49.46 | mikma | but if we were in tv show |
| 01:49.54 | mikma | we would cut it in half |
| 01:49.54 | kd3 | 'that way when the captain says "do it in half the time" I just work normally' |
| 01:50.02 | mikma | so, 3,5 days |
| 01:50.07 | Iriel | Unfortunately real life has budgetary processes that require that PM's ask those kinds of questions |
| 01:50.18 | Dagmar | I'm having to train one of my coworkers to not give accurate numbers |
| 01:50.25 | Shirik | And that's why reform is totally necessary :P |
| 01:50.31 | Jamash | adding more people to a late software project makes it later (Brooks' Law) |
| 01:50.39 | Iriel | One technique for sizing that works okay is to try and decompose the problem then use a powers-of-2 (or something close) rule, something like 1 day, 2 days, 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month |
| 01:50.42 | WobWork | well accuracy in timing is a sliding scale =) |
| 01:50.52 | Iriel | but it's all still a guess 8-) |
| 01:51.00 | Iriel | It's the folks who forget the guess part who are insufferable |
| 01:51.12 | Shirik | Fact of the matter is you have to incorporate ways to handle exceptions during your process |
| 01:51.17 | Iriel | the other thing is the whole idea of confidence.. |
| 01:51.19 | Shirik | such as a delayed deliverable |
| 01:51.27 | WobWork | My boss is good at that, Even on projects with a tight deadline, I never feel uncomfortable about the time given |
| 01:51.32 | Shirik | Just adding additional time is not the solution :P |
| 01:51.41 | Iriel | if you dont know what the confidence you're expected to have with your estimate is, your estimate will be worthless |
| 01:52.01 | Iriel | There are some really good (and some really awful) books on this stuff |
| 01:52.12 | WobWork | It also helps if the specs remain concrete |
| 01:52.15 | Shirik | My book is pretty good really |
| 01:52.15 | Iriel | If you're bored you should read "The Deadline" by Tom DeMarco |
| 01:52.21 | Shirik | It's by SEI |
| 01:52.22 | Iriel | WobWork: which they never do 8-) |
| 01:52.30 | WobWork | Or assigning ridiculous amounts of extra cash to any changes =) |
| 01:52.41 | Shirik | sorry, SQI |
| 01:52.50 | WobWork | "I'm sorry, adding that box will incur a $9000 additional fee" |
| 01:52.51 | Jamash | software quality institute? |
| 01:53.00 | Shirik | yes |
| 01:53.05 | Jamash | I win at acronyms |
| 01:53.29 | bleeter | It's a very difficult job and the only way to get through it is we all work together as a team. And that means you do everything I say. |
| 01:53.49 | WobWork | bleeter: that's the truth however =P |
| 01:54.03 | bleeter | <3 Michael Caine |
| 01:54.06 | WobWork | There is no I in team |
| 01:54.10 | WobWork | but there is 'me' |
| 01:54.19 | bleeter | THERE IS I IN FAIL |
| 01:54.36 | bleeter | THERE IS ALSO LAF |
| 01:54.51 | Dagmar | My favorite: "There's a 'fire' in 'fired', just waiting to happen." |
| 01:55.10 | kd3 | "You just got $0.09 in interest for last month. Grats!" |
| 01:55.13 | bleeter | kd3: why <3? 'coz yer bank's still trading? |
| 01:55.23 | Shirik | grats! |
| 01:55.24 | bleeter | hah |
| 01:55.30 | WobWork | bleeter: Amanda Palmer on Good News Week tonight |
| 01:55.39 | Iriel | kd3: 0.29 here! |
| 01:56.04 | bleeter | kd3: enjoy it while it lasts, give it 3 months and they'll be printing more USD$ |
| 01:56.08 | Shirik | My book is really strange sometimes, though |
| 01:56.23 | Shirik | "What is a process?" Process Definition <Source: www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary> |
| 01:56.29 | Shirik | 1. something going on |
| 01:56.43 | Shirik | ... |
| 01:56.44 | Jamash | awesome |
| 01:57.00 | WobWork | at least they're not referencing wikipedia =) |
| 01:57.03 | Jamash | so if anyone asks "do we have a process for that?" the answer is always "yes" |
| 01:57.17 | Jamash | the process is "do something" |
| 01:57.25 | bleeter | if the UK govt is printing more notes, and gold's worth more than cash... blizz should give the UK govt some gold just for <3 |
| 01:57.28 | WobWork | or "make a process" |
| 01:57.30 | Shirik | 02/23/2009 Interest Earned |
| 01:57.31 | Shirik | $0.22 |
| 01:57.39 | Shirik | I almost beat Iriel! |
| 01:58.07 | Shirik | But, my savings goes up at a much better rate than that |
| 01:58.11 | Shirik | <3 Keep the change transfers |
| 01:58.36 | kd3 | I should probably enable that... certainly better than the pittance I'm getting for my savings account |
| 01:59.37 | Iriel | My savings account is somewhat better |
| 01:59.39 | Jamash | ah, savings |
| 01:59.41 | Jamash | I used to have those |
| 01:59.46 | Iriel | but still (relatively) pathetic |
| 01:59.56 | Shirik | My savings is emergency money, basically |
| 01:59.59 | Shirik | hopefully never have to use it |
| 02:00.01 | Shirik | but it's there |
| 02:00.09 | Shirik | and keep the change helps me ensure I don't forget about it |
| 02:00.13 | Shirik | I slowly add to it |
| 02:01.01 | Gnarfoz | wtf is this "keep the change" stuff? |
| 02:01.10 | Gnarfoz | USians have really weird things going on again :O |
| 02:01.19 | Shirik | Bank of america has an option whenever you use your debit card, it will round up to the nearest dollar |
| 02:01.24 | Cairenn|afk | keep the change rocks |
| 02:01.28 | kd3 | buy something for $4.86. 14 cents gets automatically transfered from your checking to a special savings account |
| 02:01.28 | Shirik | whatever extra is added is actually transferred to savings |
| 02:01.31 | Cairenn|afk | there are banks in Canada that offer it as well |
| 02:01.43 | WobWork | hm, interesting |
| 02:01.49 | Gnarfoz | interesting indeed |
| 02:02.01 | Cairenn|afk | or, another one that is offered, here in Canada at least, is round up |
| 02:02.07 | Gnarfoz | but then, we still use real money here :P |
| 02:02.21 | Shirik | what is "real money" |
| 02:02.22 | WobWork | pity that our banks are so stickinthemud it'd never occur for them to have it |
| 02:02.22 | Cairenn|afk | you buy something for 3.86, it rounds up to 5.00, but the difference goes to the savings account |
| 02:02.24 | Shirik | you mean you don't pay with plastic? |
| 02:02.33 | WobWork | Shirik: we do =) |
| 02:02.39 | WobWork | All our money is plastic =P |
| 02:02.42 | WobWork | except the coins |
| 02:02.46 | Shirik | what is a coin |
| 02:02.51 | bleeter | WobWork: then again, we've got 4 of the top 15 performing banks in the world atm... |
| 02:02.53 | Shirik | all we have is these plastic things with black stripe on it |
| 02:02.56 | Cairenn|afk | you can have it round up to the nearest 5, or 10 |
| 02:03.02 | Shirik | and when it breaks, you have no money for a week |
| 02:03.08 | Gnarfoz | Shirik: you know perfectly well what I meant :D |
| 02:03.10 | WobWork | bleeter: true, which means they're even less likely to change anything =) |
| 02:03.11 | kd3 | I actually saw a 50 cent piece at work a few days ago |
| 02:03.12 | Shirik | :P |
| 02:03.27 | bleeter | WobWork: atm prolly a good thing if they don't try all this weird broken stuff ;) |
| 02:03.28 | kd3 | had forgotten how damned big those coins are |
| 02:03.37 | bleeter | WobWork: well, not try it on the locals =)) |
| 02:03.44 | WobWork | You should see the difference between Shanghai and Beijing |
| 02:03.51 | WobWork | Beijing is all about the notes, |
| 02:03.54 | WobWork | Shanghai the coins |
| 02:04.02 | WobWork | Beijing is so much easier to deal with =P |
| 02:04.10 | Shirik | coins are much more fun |
| 02:04.16 | Shirik | it makes you feel like you have something tangible |
| 02:04.17 | WobWork | I remember buying dinner in Shanghai with about 8 handfuls of coins |
| 02:04.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Aqua (n=Vette@74-137-180-250.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 02:04.23 | Shirik | bills are annoying |
| 02:04.25 | Shirik | like |
| 02:04.30 | WobWork | the woman at the counter gave a fantastic death glare |
| 02:04.31 | Shirik | you're giving someone a piece of paper |
| 02:04.32 | Shirik | seriously |
| 02:04.47 | WobWork | oh most of these coins felt like they were made from tin, Shirik |
| 02:04.54 | Shirik | but still |
| 02:04.57 | kd3 | yet how often do the $1 coins get used compared to bills? |
| 02:04.58 | Shirik | they're heavier than a piece of paper |
| 02:05.00 | WobWork | we're talking fractions of an RNB |
| 02:05.11 | WobWork | Shirik: actually not =) |
| 02:05.16 | Shirik | personally I'd like to know the cost of a penny |
| 02:05.27 | Jamash | penny cost > 1c |
| 02:05.27 | WobWork | There's a thing at one of the temples, where you can float the coins on a bowl of water |
| 02:05.29 | kd3 | 1.03c |
| 02:05.31 | kd3 | ish |
| 02:05.38 | Shirik | I find that amusing |
| 02:05.44 | Jamash | there was a fuss in the news some time ago when it happened |
| 02:05.55 | WobWork | I vaugely recall people buying out pennies then melting them for the metal |
| 02:06.10 | Shirik | technically that's illegal |
| 02:06.16 | WobWork | no doubt |
| 02:06.18 | Shirik | it's amusingly illegal to destroy money |
| 02:06.24 | WobWork | destruction of money =P |
| 02:06.27 | Shirik | one of the more peculiar laws |
| 02:06.48 | kd3 | meh, a lot of stupid crap was getting bought (or stolen) to get melted down |
| 02:06.58 | kd3 | like manhole covers... >.< |
| 02:07.01 | WobWork | Cars, bikes, dogs... |
| 02:07.10 | Dagmar | You can destroy money |
| 02:07.16 | Shirik | Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States, or any foreign coins which are by law made current or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States; |
| 02:07.21 | Shirik | Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five |
| 02:07.21 | Shirik | years, or both |
| 02:07.22 | Dagmar | You're just not allowed to do so for the purposes of fraud. |
| 02:07.35 | Dagmar | You can burn it in a fire all you like. Bleaching it, on the other hand, will get you in serious trouble |
| 02:07.39 | Jamash | you can flatten pennies in novelty penny machines |
| 02:07.45 | Jamash | but I think they have special licenses |
| 02:07.48 | kd3 | ^ |
| 02:07.59 | Shirik | ah ok, does require fradulent intent |
| 02:08.10 | WobWork | wasn't there something about hobo pennies |
| 02:08.12 | Dagmar | Yep. because of things like bleaching and reprinting |
| 02:08.22 | WobWork | where they'd take the buffalo penny and carve the face to be something different? |
| 02:08.30 | Dagmar | There was a legal stink awhile back about the novelty penny squashers, but that got cleared up |
| 02:09.19 | *** join/#wowuidev pnorman (n=pnorman@d206-116-2-118.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 02:10.23 | Shirik | ah! |
| 02:10.29 | Shirik | but bills doesn't require fradulent intent |
| 02:10.31 | Shirik | that's for coins |
| 02:10.54 | Shirik | http://wowi.pastey.net/109747 |
| 02:12.17 | Shirik | However "intend to render such [currency] unfit to be reissued" is an interesting statement |
| 02:12.24 | Shirik | s/intend/intent/ |
| 02:12.58 | pnorman | glib2 has so many big depends :/ |
| 02:13.34 | WobWork | zomg, awesome: http://www.sessionmagazine.com/vampire-killing-kit/ |
| 02:15.44 | Shirik | I want one :( |
| 02:16.34 | mikma | pff |
| 02:16.56 | *** part/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (i=Dark_Elf@ip53.net195.mw.net) |
| 02:17.29 | mikma | its like: "omagad a vampire, where is my kit!?" -> searching -> "please stop biting my neck because i am looking for your slaying kit" |
| 02:17.52 | WobWork | well |
| 02:17.55 | WobWork | if you bought it |
| 02:18.03 | WobWork | chances are you'd unpack it -before- hugging a vampire |
| 02:18.29 | Dagmar | You'd *hug* a vampire? |
| 02:18.35 | Shirik | well you're supposed to go to sleep with a garlic necklace |
| 02:18.40 | Shirik | and holding a cross |
| 02:18.43 | bleeter | kinky |
| 02:18.46 | Dagmar | I'd think people buying a vampire murdering kit wouldn't be the types to hug them |
| 02:18.49 | mikma | if transylvania vampires hug you |
| 02:20.15 | mikma | wobwork: most likely all the garlic-shit just en up in your food |
| 02:20.18 | Shirik | oh wow |
| 02:20.31 | Shirik | I didn't know there was an amendment proposed to ban flag burning in the US |
| 02:20.40 | Shirik | and it was 1 vote short of being sent to the states for ratification... |
| 02:20.44 | Dagmar | Missed the 80's did you? |
| 02:21.00 | Shirik | this was 2007 actually |
| 02:21.10 | Shirik | On June 22, 2005, a flag burning amendment was passed by the House with the needed two-thirds majority. On June 27, 2006, the most recent attempt to pass a ban on flag burning was rejected by the Senate in a close vote of 66 in favor, 34 opposed, one vote short of the two-thirds majority needed to send the amendment to be voted on by the states.[22] |
| 02:21.41 | WobWork | mikma: is that like "Everyone should carry small bells to scare off bears, you can tell where the bears are from the piles of bear droppings with tiny bells in them..." |
| 02:21.43 | bleeter | lol |
| 02:22.01 | mikma | wobwork: =D |
| 02:24.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 02:25.22 | mikma | hi wobin |
| 02:26.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobster (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 02:27.10 | Shirik | hi Wobin |
| 02:27.13 | Shirik | and Wobster |
| 02:27.16 | Shirik | and WobWork |
| 02:27.19 | Wobin | hi Shirik |
| 02:27.24 | Wobin | work connection issues |
| 02:27.28 | Wobin | this is why we're moving =P |
| 02:27.33 | Shirik | Would you like my school's IT? |
| 02:27.33 | Wobin | internet here is terrible |
| 02:27.36 | Shirik | I'm sure they can make it worse |
| 02:27.37 | Wobin | no =) |
| 02:27.44 | Wobin | We work with schools a lot |
| 02:27.51 | Wobin | we know what their IT is usually like =) |
| 02:28.06 | Shirik | haha |
| 02:28.11 | Shirik | Not sure if you missed it earlier |
| 02:28.22 | Shirik | I've come to the conlusion that my school throttles connections which don't have "www" in their hostname |
| 02:28.30 | Wobin | ... |
| 02:28.37 | Wobin | silly school |
| 02:28.45 | Shirik | I'm not joking; it takes me about 20 seconds to access http://heresiarchguild.com |
| 02:28.51 | Shirik | but http://www.heresiarchguild.com is instant |
| 02:28.54 | Shirik | and this happens all the time |
| 02:29.02 | Wobin | direct ip? |
| 02:29.10 | Shirik | haven't tried |
| 02:29.59 | Shirik | that seems fast |
| 02:30.35 | Wobin | hm, what should I hvae for lunch |
| 02:30.59 | Wobin | chinese, japanese, deli, seafood, bbq chicken/pork/beef, pie... |
| 02:31.15 | Wobin | korean |
| 02:31.19 | Shirik | chinese is always good, but japanese is <3 |
| 02:31.23 | Shirik | I wish I had those options |
| 02:31.27 | Shirik | bbq is horrible |
| 02:31.34 | Wobin | this one isn't too bad |
| 02:31.39 | Wobin | they bake their own bread rolls |
| 02:32.25 | Wobin | oh and or lebanese |
| 02:32.36 | Wobin | and to think, this is a somewhat limited choice =P |
| 02:32.43 | Wobin | when we move, range will increase |
| 02:33.02 | Wobin | the area we're in is considered senior citizen central |
| 02:33.09 | Wobin | so lots of bland food =P |
| 02:34.21 | Shirik | most food is bland |
| 02:34.24 | Shirik | is why I love asian food |
| 02:34.26 | Shirik | not bland |
| 02:34.37 | Wobin | bland asian food is easy |
| 02:34.44 | mikma | wobin: pie |
| 02:35.22 | Wobin | although this chinese place does -really- good roast pork |
| 02:35.30 | Wobin | unfortunately not on Mondays though |
| 02:35.41 | Wobin | their crackling is to die for |
| 02:35.55 | Wobin | melt in your mouth omnomnomnom |
| 02:36.41 | mikma | ummmm |
| 02:36.50 | Shirik | I could live off Japanese food |
| 02:37.01 | Shirik | is why I've thought to myself, if I ever moved to another country, would have to be Japan |
| 02:37.11 | Shirik | granted, is the only other country I've ever lived in so I might be biased |
| 02:37.14 | mikma | chinese... i usually eat cow with grounded black beens |
| 02:37.26 | mikma | spicy, not hot. |
| 02:38.19 | Wobin | oh man, when we move... |
| 02:38.26 | Wobin | there's a -really- good laksa place there |
| 02:38.40 | mikma | Double wee tee ef mate |
| 02:38.44 | Wobin | I'm so looking forward to this move... I hope it goes through |
| 02:39.09 | Wobin | we're a block from the pub (we actually look out onto the beer garden) |
| 02:39.23 | Wobin | and the other side looks out straight to the Sydney Harbour Bridge |
| 02:39.29 | Wobin | so it'll be fantastic for NYE |
| 02:43.44 | *** join/#wowuidev batrick (n=batrick@batbytes.com) |
| 02:48.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Chaoslux (n=no@205.233.198.243) |
| 02:49.41 | Shirik | itunes fails me |
| 02:49.47 | Shirik | They are missing a CD I want :( |
| 02:50.46 | Shirik | and amazon has it for $61, wtf |
| 02:51.13 | Iriel | rare? |
| 02:51.21 | Shirik | Import, I wouldn't consider it rare |
| 02:51.26 | Shirik | http://www.amazon.com/Duty-Ayumi-Hamasaki/dp/B000059O85/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236567008&sr=8-1 |
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| 02:52.08 | Iriel | Sometimes you can buy it of other amazon sites for cheaper |
| 02:52.24 | Iriel | I often find UK imports are cheaper on amazon.co.uk, shipped to US, than from amazon.com |
| 02:52.51 | Shirik | I can't read amazon.co.jp :( |
| 02:53.08 | Shirik | 2938 yen |
| 02:53.11 | Shirik | that's like $20 |
| 02:53.37 | Shirik | $30 |
| 02:54.22 | Shirik | and if I'm reading this correctly, it qualifies for free shipping. Does that mean anywhere? ^_^ |
| 02:56.02 | Shirik | I can't even put my billing address in amazon.co.jp |
| 02:56.15 | Shirik | It doesn't have enough flexibility for a US address >< |
| 02:57.54 | Shirik | Wow Iriel, nice advice |
| 02:58.10 | Shirik | shipping and handling: $21.14, totals to $50 |
| 02:58.19 | Iriel | yay |
| 02:58.24 | Shirik | (I found how to add an international address) |
| 02:58.27 | Iriel | Like I said I do that for UK imports all the time |
| 02:58.31 | Gnarfoz | that's cheaper, but still not really an awesome price for one cd? |
| 02:59.09 | Shirik | oh wtf!! |
| 02:59.24 | Shirik | I was trying to figure uot why they force me to use "International Express" shipping |
| 02:59.37 | Shirik | International Economy Shipping |
| 02:59.37 | Shirik | International Economy Shipping is no longer available after March, 7, 2009. See here for details. |
| 02:59.53 | Gnarfoz | well? |
| 02:59.54 | Gnarfoz | details! |
| 02:59.54 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 03:00.01 | Shirik | that was yesterday >< |
| 03:00.12 | Gnarfoz | oh, that, too. |
| 03:00.52 | Shirik | the question is whether or not I want the CD enough to pay $50 |
| 03:01.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110| (i=Matrix11@pD957BEA4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:03.49 | Wobin | I think the answer to that is no |
| 03:03.55 | Wobin | otherwise you wouldn't have asked it |
| 03:04.12 | Aqua | I swear to god |
| 03:04.16 | Aqua | I hate the server burning legion |
| 03:05.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Maelmord (n=kvirc@S01060006256fda48.va.shawcable.net) |
| 03:05.24 | Wobin | I saw a guild "Burning Region" |
| 03:07.25 | Chaoslux | What happened? |
| 03:08.27 | Tem | I fucking hate 6m malygos |
| 03:08.49 | Tem | just missed it by about 5 seconds |
| 03:11.54 | Syzgyn | Doh |
| 03:12.16 | Shirik | Google finds the strangest things sometimes |
| 03:12.28 | Syzgyn | Tem: How many people did you have healing in P3? |
| 03:12.35 | Tem | 3 |
| 03:12.37 | Shirik | I typed the IP of something that's been spamming my phone all day (I get an email whenever fail2ban bans an IP) |
| 03:12.40 | Tem | (of 25) |
| 03:12.42 | Shirik | And google found http://robert.kolatzek.org/botnet.txt |
| 03:12.44 | Aqua | sorry |
| 03:12.51 | Aqua | 12 hour naxramas is what happened |
| 03:13.21 | Syzgyn | And you're not hitting a second vortex right? |
| 03:15.14 | Wobin | beef bougi<somethingfrench> |
| 03:15.45 | sacarasc | Bourguignon, Wobin? |
| 03:15.50 | Wobin | merci =) |
| 03:16.27 | Wobin | something involving beef, carrots and wine in some combination or so |
| 03:16.48 | Wobin | although I apparently managed to pronounce it correctly to the shopkeeper |
| 03:17.03 | Tem | Syzgyn, on that attempt, no |
| 03:17.07 | Tem | only 1 vortex |
| 03:20.45 | Syzgyn | Tem: If I remember correctly, on our 6 min kill, we started P3 with about 2:30 left |
| 03:20.57 | Syzgyn | And finished with ~10-15 sec left |
| 03:21.13 | Tem | we entered p3 with about 2m left |
| 03:21.23 | Tem | so we only had about 1.5m of dps time |
| 03:21.35 | Syzgyn | Yeah, you need more than that |
| 03:22.07 | Tem | it takes almost a full 30s to transition there |
| 03:22.33 | Syzgyn | Yep |
| 03:25.10 | Wobin | wait, Nexus bosses change depending on faction? |
| 03:25.14 | Wobin | whut? |
| 03:26.17 | Gnarfoz | what |
| 03:26.27 | Gnarfoz | why would they |
| 03:26.28 | Gnarfoz | ;D |
| 03:28.11 | Wobin | jsut from a post I read: Im wondering if SW throne room is for alliance only, maybe horde will see something different. |
| 03:28.11 | Wobin | Look at the Nexus, different mobs/boss based on faction! |
| 03:28.30 | Wobin | unless he's talking about another nexus |
| 03:29.22 | Tem | wha? |
| 03:29.35 | Tem | you mean those horde mobs by the first boss in heroic? |
| 03:29.49 | Tem | perhaps they are alliance mobs for horde |
| 03:30.01 | Wobin | oh that |
| 03:30.14 | Wobin | yeah they are |
| 03:30.17 | Gnarfoz | they are? |
| 03:30.33 | Wobin | its a dwarf boss for horde |
| 03:30.41 | Gnarfoz | http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=26796 whee |
| 03:30.43 | Gnarfoz | lol ok ^^ |
| 03:31.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110| (i=Matrix11@pD957B238.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:34.59 | Tem | lol awesome |
| 03:35.06 | Tem | if you DI someone on a disk, they can still move |
| 03:35.12 | Gnarfoz | yea |
| 03:41.24 | Wobin | caues it's a vehicle? =) |
| 03:42.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (i=vschiu@adsl-99-30-227-170.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:43.20 | Tem | most likely, Wobin |
| 03:43.35 | Gnarfoz | why would there be doubt about it :D |
| 03:46.51 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (n=sylvanaa@unaffiliated/sylvanaar) |
| 03:50.54 | [draco] | is there any addon like dr. damage that's actually being updated? |
| 04:00.34 | sylvanaar | anyone feel like they are proficient in Java |
| 04:01.14 | Iriel | sylvanaar: a little 8-) |
| 04:02.36 | sylvanaar | ok - since java doesnt do swap(), i need a clever way to fire property change events from a setter after I have changed the field |
| 04:03.12 | sylvanaar | without adding a temp reference |
| 04:04.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Hirsute (i=Rupert@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Hirsute) |
| 04:04.50 | sylvanaar | heres an example http://javasucks.pastey.net/109755 |
| 04:06.23 | sylvanaar | has anyone come up with a clever way to avoid the 3rd reference? |
| 04:06.54 | Iriel | Why are you avoiding the temp reference? |
| 04:07.33 | Iriel | final RegisterInformation oldInformation = registerInformation; |
| 04:07.39 | Iriel | What's so bad about that? |
| 04:07.41 | End | ZOMBIEFEST! |
| 04:07.48 | Iriel | (before the assignment, that is) |
| 04:08.50 | sylvanaar | wrong - nothing, its just adds to the visual clutter though |
| 04:08.52 | Iriel | (the final isn't really necessary but theoretically it gives a less talented compiler a hint that it can optimize away use of an extra value if it wants) |
| 04:09.13 | Hirsute | Anyone know (or suggest a good place for me to look up) what the hit cap is for Hunters? (and other discussions of hit/crit/haste/penetration/etc)? |
| 04:09.24 | Wobin | 264 |
| 04:09.32 | Wobin | (I think) |
| 04:09.39 | Wobin | if you don't have the MM skill to reduce by 3% |
| 04:09.59 | sylvanaar | if i had swap, i could just swap at the assignment |
| 04:10.07 | Hirsute | Thanks! (I don't, currently full-on BM) |
| 04:10.33 | Wobin | 262.24 Hit Rating - 0/3 Focused Aim |
| 04:10.34 | Wobin | 229.46 Hit Rating - 1/3 Focused Aim |
| 04:10.34 | Wobin | 196.68 Hit Rating - 2/3 Focused Aim |
| 04:10.34 | Wobin | 163.90 Hit Rating - 3/3 Focused Aim |
| 04:10.36 | Chaoslux | try checking the ElitistJerks forums? |
| 04:10.59 | Hirsute | Chaoslux: Thanks, I'll mosey on over there. |
| 04:11.01 | Wobin | Focused Aim is a tier 0 talent |
| 04:11.04 | Gnarfoz | 8% probably, which would be the first of those 4 numbers |
| 04:11.10 | Wobin | so easy to put points into |
| 04:12.15 | sylvanaar | Iriel i havent worker with java in a while - its terribly verbose. and being required to use 1.4 doesn't help. |
| 04:13.06 | Wobin | Hirsute: Also, check out BRK's site |
| 04:13.31 | Hirsute | Wobin: Lucky for me I've got three levels of points left to do that. And thanks for the recommendation about BRKs site. |
| 04:14.36 | sylvanaar | can you do f:f(a=b, a) deterministically, or at all |
| 04:14.37 | Wobin | even if BRK tends to go by feel on a lot of his suggestions, they tend to be correct. If you want more detail on numbers and such, check out his forums, as they'll likely have links to the EJ discussions |
| 04:15.07 | Hirsute | Great. |
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| 04:22.16 | Shirik | sylvanaar: What are you asking |
| 04:22.18 | Shirik | f:f is not Java |
| 04:22.49 | sylvanaar | f.f |
| 04:23.22 | Tem | for most things, java's syntax is just like C's |
| 04:23.37 | Tem | a=b has a return value in C |
| 04:23.44 | Tem | I think it's likely that it does in java as well |
| 04:24.31 | Tem | I person think it's bad practice, but it'll probably work |
| 04:24.31 | Tem | s/person/personally/ |
| 04:24.36 | Shirik | That's fine sylvanaar |
| 04:24.42 | Shirik | Unless I'm not understanding what you're asking |
| 04:24.54 | Shirik | Arguments are always evaluated in the same order |
| 04:24.58 | sylvanaar | im wondering if i can exploit a side effect |
| 04:25.00 | Shirik | Which order that is, I forget |
| 04:25.21 | Shirik | but yes, you can do that |
| 04:25.28 | Shirik | should you? Probably not |
| 04:26.14 | sylvanaar | java needs swap |
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| 04:28.31 | Shirik | It has it |
| 04:28.35 | Shirik | int a, b; |
| 04:28.46 | Shirik | int temp = a; a = b; b = temp; |
| 04:28.50 | Shirik | swap! |
| 04:28.55 | Adys | Anyone knows in which file the race/class descriptions are stored? |
| 04:29.03 | Adys | prolly in gluexml but where |
| 04:29.56 | sylvanaar | there it is: f(a, a=b) |
| 04:29.59 | *** join/#wowuidev batrick (n=batrick@batbytes.com) |
| 04:31.12 | Shirik | What Java does need is tailcalls |
| 04:31.15 | *** join/#wowuidev batrick (n=batrick@batbytes.com) |
| 04:31.18 | Shirik | I've seen several interesting proposals for them |
| 04:31.29 | sylvanaar | it needs fewer lines of code to do simle tasks |
| 04:31.34 | Shirik | some as simple as using return |
| 04:31.39 | Shirik | some making use of the reserved word goto |
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| 04:33.28 | sylvanaar | http://javasucks.pastey.net/109756 |
| 04:33.54 | Iriel | You'd need to remove line 3 |
| 04:34.06 | Iriel | That'd also fail code review in my world 8-) |
| 04:34.15 | sylvanaar | omg <3 thats right! |
| 04:34.30 | Iriel | Since it sacrifices clean readability for "neat tricks" |
| 04:34.35 | sylvanaar | yeah |
| 04:34.40 | sylvanaar | i hear you |
| 04:35.21 | Iriel | Just think how good your documentation would be if you'd spent the time you've spent trying to avoid the temporary variable doing javadocs instead? 8-) |
| 04:36.01 | sylvanaar | haha |
| 04:36.43 | Shirik | I agree it would fail code review for me too :) |
| 04:36.50 | Shirik | Minor defect: Risk-Prone |
| 04:36.50 | sylvanaar | i used to think like you at one point, i guess I have changed |
| 04:37.22 | Iriel | Did you stop having to be responsible for the quality of other people's code? 8-) |
| 04:37.33 | sylvanaar | actually, no |
| 04:38.25 | Iriel | Actually, I think I have an improved version for you |
| 04:38.53 | Iriel | actually, no, I dont 8-( |
| 04:38.57 | Wobin | I read that as "...version of you" |
| 04:39.11 | Iriel | Since you need the event to fire after the assignment goes through |
| 04:39.17 | sylvanaar | yes |
| 04:39.26 | Wobin | Shirik: Or at least an evolutionary dead end =) |
| 04:39.31 | Shirik | :( |
| 04:39.41 | sylvanaar | oh nice BSG reference |
| 04:39.58 | Aqua | bsg, there is a good show |
| 04:40.10 | Shirik | I wonder, is the Java compiler optimizing? |
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| 04:40.21 | Iriel | They can |
| 04:40.24 | Iriel | optimize, that is |
| 04:40.29 | Iriel | plus the VM can do all manner of tricks |
| 04:40.33 | Shirik | I've been poking strange cases to see if I can break compilers lately |
| 04:40.42 | Iriel | most of the 'industrial strength' VM's do some pretty crazy shit |
| 04:40.43 | sylvanaar | use final |
| 04:40.43 | Shirik | if (a ==a) seems to be a common one that's broken |
| 04:41.00 | Shirik | I find a lot of compilers optimize that to always true |
| 04:41.10 | Iriel | they're allowed to unless a is volatile, aren't they? |
| 04:41.21 | Shirik | Not if it's floating point |
| 04:41.32 | Iriel | Ah, the NaN casE? |
| 04:41.32 | Shirik | since nans are not equal to nans |
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| 04:41.34 | Shirik | yes |
| 04:41.58 | Iriel | does the language spec give the compilers an "undefined/implementation defined" out for that particular instance? |
| 04:42.11 | Iriel | the C++ spec always seemed good at being excessively detailed in those sorts of cases |
| 04:42.13 | Shirik | I haven't really looked at the standards much, I've just been poking holes |
| 04:42.22 | Iriel | potential holes 8-) |
| 04:42.27 | Shirik | ok, potential holes |
| 04:42.41 | Iriel | I used to think g++ broken because an unintialized bool could be neither true nor false |
| 04:42.48 | Iriel | but that was one of those things that the spec allowed |
| 04:43.17 | sylvanaar | are you looking for JIT quirks? |
| 04:44.38 | Iriel | I think he's just looking for bytecode optimization quirks |
| 04:44.47 | Iriel | The eclipse compiler has several rather annoying ones |
| 04:44.57 | sylvanaar | ah |
| 04:45.11 | Shirik | sylvanaar: yeah, what Iriel said |
| 04:45.32 | Shirik | In particular I was interested because I read a semi-paper on it, and remembered that I relied on that for Auctioneer |
| 04:45.45 | Shirik | (fortunately, Lua's compiler does not optimize) |
| 04:46.40 | Shirik | if midpoint ~= midpoint or midpoint == 0 then |
| 04:47.06 | sylvanaar | what about it |
| 04:47.07 | Shirik | which, admittedly, is probably bad now that I think about it, as that should probably be midpoint < EPSILON |
| 04:47.23 | Shirik | It's a case Auctioneer has to check for when calculating market prices :) |
| 04:47.41 | Shirik | so I obviously rely on the fact that it's handled properly |
| 04:48.38 | sylvanaar | it lacks context i guess |
| 04:49.35 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-66-23-70.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 04:50.11 | Iriel | Shirik: Did you put a comment before it to say why youw ere comparing against itself? |
| 04:50.30 | Shirik | I think it's self commenting with the next line, really |
| 04:50.43 | Shirik | nLog.AddMessage("Auctioneer", "Market Pricing", N_WARNING, "Unable To Calculate", "A NaN value was detected while processing the midpoint for PDF of "..(GetItemInfo(itemLink) or itemLink).."... Giving up."); |
| 04:51.14 | Torhal | Well, it's only been 6 years... |
| 04:51.27 | Torhal | ...but methinks I'll watch the BSG miniseries then the series proper. |
| 04:52.02 | Shirik | I admit this code should probably be commented more |
| 04:52.06 | Shirik | it's somewhat convoluted |
| 04:52.11 | Shirik | there's divisions by zero too |
| 04:52.20 | Shirik | assert(lowerLimit > -1/0 and upperLimit < 1/0, "Invalid bounds detected while pricing "..(GetItemInfo(itemLink) or itemLink)..": "..tostring(lowerLimit).." to "..tostring(upperLimit)); |
| 04:52.26 | Torhal | Shirik: Commented, or re-segmented and then commented? |
| 04:53.06 | Sixen | Are they even moderating the PTR Forums? |
| 04:54.03 | kd3 | no? |
| 04:54.03 | Shirik | On the contrary, Torhal, I think it's written rather well |
| 04:54.07 | Shirik | Just lacking some comments |
| 04:54.14 | Iriel | Some of you will be happy to know i'm updating the secure handlers doc for 3.1 (including all of the templates added between 3.0 and now, like mouse wheel) |
| 04:54.27 | kd3 | ooooh |
| 04:54.34 | Torhal | Shirik: Ok, was just wondering with the "convoluted" remark. I've never looked at the code, myself. |
| 04:54.50 | Shirik | convoluted because it makes use of very strange properties |
| 04:54.55 | Torhal | Iriel: Don't tell Tekkub - he'll more than likely offer buttbabies. |
| 04:55.02 | Shirik | such as __call metamethods, divisions by zero, tests for equality against itself |
| 04:55.13 | sylvanaar | http://javasucks.pastey.net/109757 vs. http://javasucks.pastey.net/109758 |
| 04:55.27 | Torhal | I strain to figure out a reason to test for equality against self. |
| 04:55.51 | sylvanaar | math you didnt take |
| 04:56.15 | Torhal | sylvanaar: You ever figure out the flashing tabs thinger for Prat 3.0, or have you not had time? |
| 04:56.27 | Shirik | sylvanaar: I use a modified version of Iriel's Checkstyle script. It would yell at you for that. |
| 04:56.46 | sylvanaar | Shirik he already yelled at me |
| 04:56.53 | Sixen | =o |
| 04:56.58 | Sixen | hai Iriel. And Kd3. |
| 04:57.21 | sylvanaar | but, you have to admit - 1 line vs 3... |
| 04:57.43 | Shirik | Is 2 lines really enough benefit to justify potential problems 3 months from now? |
| 04:59.08 | Shirik | p.s. where yo javadoc foo! |
| 04:59.57 | sylvanaar | if you could tell me what it is, and not use pascal's theorem sure. javadoc on a setter, im not writing that |
| 05:00.14 | sylvanaar | sets the value |
| 05:00.41 | sylvanaar | if your setter has side effects or somethig sure |
| 05:01.15 | Iriel | I'm conflicted over javadoc on setters and getters for internal objects, but "public API's" really should have them |
| 05:04.35 | Shirik | admittedly some of these javadocs are bad, but I point you at an example as the getter on line 168: http://pastey.net/109759/168:169:170:171 |
| 05:04.44 | Shirik | er, setter |
| 05:05.13 | Shirik | or 218 if you consider "synchronized" a side-effect |
| 05:09.51 | Cide | html in comments.. interesting |
| 05:10.00 | sylvanaar | i like checkstyle on my coworkers code, every single line of code has a marker |
| 05:10.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 05:10.08 | sylvanaar | tabs |
| 05:10.23 | sylvanaar | couldnt they have summarized that |
| 05:11.20 | Shirik | Cide: It's for the production of javadoc |
| 05:11.29 | Cide | I figured |
| 05:11.57 | Shirik | I debated having a "readable" section and a "less readable" section |
| 05:12.08 | Shirik | but Netbeans shows the javadoc while doing intellisense |
| 05:12.12 | Shirik | and it parses the HTML |
| 05:12.19 | Shirik | so I think at least for the time being it's ok |
| 05:12.45 | Shirik | This is kinda a special case because this class does a lot of XML work, and I wanted to document exactly what it's producing |
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| 05:16.28 | sylvanaar | today, i decided not to refactor code because I didnt want to rewrite the unit tests |
| 05:17.32 | Iriel | overly fragile unit tests? Or completely whimsical refactoring? |
| 05:17.51 | sylvanaar | it was non-trivial restructuring |
| 05:24.55 | sylvanaar | how do you prevent them from being overly fragile anyhow, sorta like comments...they lose relevance as the code changes |
| 05:25.34 | Shirik | If your requirements and design are solid, then you should be able to write test cases based on a contract. So long as that contract doesn't change, your unit test shouldn't change. |
| 05:25.49 | Iriel | well, sometimes folks test that the code does what they wrote, not that it does what it's supposed to do |
| 05:25.50 | Shirik | Naturally, any significant refactoring will break it. But in theory if your design is relatively solid it shouldn't be a problem :) |
| 05:26.04 | Shirik | According to the V process model, you should write your test cases before you write your code :) |
| 05:26.07 | sylvanaar | if my user was a requirements document i'd agree |
| 05:26.38 | Shirik | ah, case of "user doesn't know what he wants"? |
| 05:27.22 | sylvanaar | really on this project the schedule is so tight, that the functional spec will be given to us the same week we deliver our code to them |
| 05:27.53 | Shirik | I always liked http://www.troyangrignon.com/dilbertsoftwarerequirements.jpg |
| 05:28.18 | Iriel | The cases I was thinking of was something like this..suppose there's a method that is supposed to take three lists as input, and merge them in some way |
| 05:28.34 | Iriel | what I consider a good unit test will have various forms of inputs, and compare the output lists to make sure they're as expected |
| 05:28.56 | Iriel | a bad unit test would also test that sub-elements of the tasks were performed in a particular order |
| 05:29.23 | Iriel | which isn't to say that for particularly complex systems, that level of specificity might not be necessary |
| 05:29.36 | Wobin | is that a 'bad unit' test or a bad 'unit test'? |
| 05:29.45 | Shirik | bad 'unit test' |
| 05:30.25 | sylvanaar | well, i have a state machine with lots of state classes. the unit tests were testing their transition functions essentially |
| 05:31.10 | sylvanaar | i wanted to refactor into 2 orthagonal state machines |
| 05:39.22 | Iriel | sylvanaar: Ah, makes sense then. |
| 05:39.37 | *** part/#wowuidev Iriel (n=Iriel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:40.05 | Shirik | Iriel didn't even say bye :( |
| 05:40.16 | sylvanaar | ;( |
| 05:40.27 | sylvanaar | wow i missed the : |
| 05:40.29 | Shirik | ;_( |
| 05:44.41 | pnorman | Is there something wrong that to do my addon I have to do some analysis with matlab? |
| 05:44.52 | jnwhiteh | ? |
| 05:45.08 | pnorman | I have large amounts of data to fit to a non-linear model |
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| 05:55.38 | Thunder_Child | why is it called mmo-champion when it is just about wow? |
| 05:56.01 | Torhal | Thunder_Child: You didn't know? WoW IS the MMO-Champion! |
| 05:56.03 | Torhal | Or something. |
| 05:56.24 | Thunder_Child | at the moment sure...seems kinda myopic though |
| 05:57.00 | Torhal | Indeed. |
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| 06:01.29 | kd3 | my organized music directory is 111 gigs |
| 06:01.48 | kd3 | nearly all of it tagged the way musicbrainz wants it |
| 06:02.00 | Adys | kd3: wanna see my wow dir? |
| 06:02.10 | Adys | I think its nearing the 500gb |
| 06:02.23 | kd3 | the hell? are you keeping every patch or something? |
| 06:02.38 | kd3 | in every language? |
| 06:02.40 | Adys | every patch, language.. ELP |
| 06:03.04 | Adys | oh and a bunch of backups too |
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| 06:43.37 | Shirik | Function Points are kinda cool |
| 06:43.41 | Shirik | I should play with these more often |
| 06:49.40 | Jamash | sounds like yet another ISO Approved Waste Of Otherwise Productive Time (AWOOPT) |
| 07:01.05 | Fisker- | your mom is cool |
| 07:09.11 | pnorman | ugh, been too long since i've done modelling of complex data |
| 07:09.24 | pnorman | i knew i should of taken computational physics this term |
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| 07:28.03 | Shirik | ok |
| 07:28.08 | Shirik | MS Word is REALLY starting to piss me off |
| 07:29.28 | Shirik | I push delete once to get rid of a page break. Instantly every single figure in the entire document is on the same page |
| 07:29.34 | Shirik | no matter where it was |
| 07:32.13 | Thunder_Child | it's not MS word, it's you |
| 07:33.00 | Shirik | oh you're right |
| 07:33.09 | Shirik | I forgot the "delete" key was actually the "place everything on one page" button |
| 07:34.21 | Shirik | finally done |
| 07:34.23 | Shirik | thank god |
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| 08:17.35 | batrick | Shirik: it is imperative we get filumlunaris going! |
| 08:17.50 | batrick | i need rid of luatask and I dislike lanes |
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| 08:51.10 | Shirik | lol batrick |
| 08:51.17 | Shirik | but we need a better starting point |
| 08:51.23 | Shirik | and sit down and say "this is how we're going to do it" |
| 08:51.25 | Shirik | instead of "pew pew code" |
| 08:52.10 | zenzio | lies |
| 08:52.19 | zenzio | that's how all big projects get started |
| 08:54.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@c210184.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 08:55.28 | Shirik | zenzio: Boeing would eat you and spit you up for breakfast |
| 08:55.54 | zenzio | aviation started the same way |
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| 09:57.55 | batrick | fucking subversion is broken |
| 10:01.06 | Fisker- | i hate you |
| 10:01.24 | batrick | stfu terrible |
| 10:01.51 | Fisker- | :( |
| 10:06.24 | *** join/#wowuidev batrick (n=batrick@batbytes.com) |
| 10:18.54 | Adys | ~lart batrick |
| 10:18.54 | purl | gives batrick a "free" copy of Windows and then charges double for "Upgrades" |
| 10:19.01 | Adys | l2use bzr |
| 10:25.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Ose (n=Ose@wikia/Ose) |
| 10:26.46 | Ose | when does dailied reset? |
| 10:26.50 | Ose | (server time) |
| 10:26.52 | Ose | dailies* |
| 10:31.04 | Fisker- | around 3AM |
| 10:31.17 | Fisker- | Depends on whether or not they're observing DST |
| 10:37.09 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 10:39.01 | Ose | PTR is on US time :( |
| 10:42.57 | Fisker- | i just got giant sewer rat after a couple of fishings on ptr :( |
| 10:43.41 | Ose | fisker- which realm are you on? |
| 10:44.41 | Fisker- | brill |
| 10:45.38 | Ose | name? |
| 10:45.55 | Fisker- | Your mom |
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| 11:27.28 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 11:27.57 | Shirik | man |
| 11:28.01 | Shirik | trying to type ctrl+alt+del with one hand is like trying to type an emacs command |
| 11:28.05 | Shirik | next to impossible |
| 11:28.32 | zenzio | ctrl+alt+del |
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| 11:28.38 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ |
| 11:28.38 | zenzio | not that hard really |
| 11:28.45 | `-FISKER_Q | ctrl+alt gr+del = win |
| 11:28.45 | zenzio | just have to move your hand a bit |
| 11:29.18 | zenzio | if on the other hand you meant "to hit ctrl+alt+del with one hand", then I would have to agree |
| 11:29.19 | Shirik | I can't reach it unless I turn my hand in a very awkward position |
| 11:29.29 | Shirik | .... |
| 11:29.31 | Shirik | you know what I meant |
| 11:29.39 | zenzio | you're the one that used the wrong word |
| 11:29.47 | `-FISKER_Q | alt gr damnit |
| 11:29.48 | Shirik | no, you misunderstood the '+' |
| 11:29.51 | Shirik | alt gr is stupid |
| 11:30.05 | `-FISKER_Q | no :( |
| 11:30.27 | sylvanaar | lol |
| 11:30.47 | `-FISKER_Q | i win because it works |
| 11:30.51 | Shirik | anyway, I had to use the right ctrl and alt |
| 11:31.04 | Shirik | and put my thumb on ctrl, first finger on alt |
| 11:31.07 | Arrowmaster | i dont even use ctrl-alt-del anymore |
| 11:31.08 | zenzio | Shirik: you said "type". That means, well, to write |
| 11:31.08 | Shirik | which already seems backwards |
| 11:31.15 | Arrowmaster | i do ctrl-shift-esc |
| 11:31.16 | Shirik | and then my pinky can barely reach del |
| 11:31.20 | Shirik | Not to log in, Arrowmaster |
| 11:31.24 | Shirik | normally I do that as well |
| 11:31.33 | Shirik | but my login requires ctrl+alt+del |
| 11:31.48 | Arrowmaster | i only have to use ctrl-alt-del to login at school |
| 11:31.50 | sylvanaar | do people turnt hat off? |
| 11:32.06 | sylvanaar | i have to do it |
| 11:34.02 | sylvanaar | you have to do it if you are on a domain, i guess its normally off if you arent |
| 11:34.40 | Shirik | I turn it on just because I'm used to it |
| 11:34.46 | Shirik | no good reason really |
| 11:34.52 | Arrowmaster | i still dont understand why you have to in a domain |
| 11:34.59 | Shirik | not like someone's going to steal my laptop, put a keylogger on it, put it back to me |
| 11:35.04 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: It's for security |
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| 11:35.05 | sylvanaar | its on for me too - looks like i set the profile myself |
| 11:40.42 | sylvanaar | the original point of it was to prevent something from loading before your os and capturing your keystrokes at the login prompt |
| 11:41.23 | ZorbaTHut | I always heard it was so that a program couldn't masquerade as the login prompt, since ctrl-alt-del is the one thing that windows programs can't trap and suppress |
| 11:41.38 | Shirik | exactly, ZorbaTHut |
| 11:41.48 | ZorbaTHut | it seems like something-running-before-windows wouldn't work - since obviously Windows is capable of keeping ctrl-alt-del from rebooting the computer, anything else could also |
| 11:42.03 | Shirik | Ctrl+Alt+Del is sent directly to the OS and no programs are informed of it |
| 11:42.24 | sylvanaar | only 1 thing can register for that interrupt |
| 11:42.59 | foxlit | I wonder. |
| 11:43.03 | foxlit | Does the driver know? |
| 11:43.10 | Shirik | I don't believe so |
| 11:43.20 | Shirik | I don't see any reason for it to know |
| 11:43.28 | sylvanaar | there is a driver that services the interrupt |
| 11:43.31 | Shirik | I mean, the keyboard driver, with enough intelligence would obviously know |
| 11:43.57 | Shirik | but if you have a malicious keyboard driver |
| 11:43.59 | Shirik | you have a lot of other problems |
| 11:44.17 | Shirik | i.e., why the hell did you install a third-party keyboard driver |
| 11:44.21 | sylvanaar | back then, there wasnt a keyboard driver |
| 11:44.28 | sylvanaar | it was the bios |
| 11:44.55 | Shirik | heh |
| 11:45.01 | Shirik | back in the days of yore |
| 11:45.03 | sylvanaar | you can still boot that way |
| 11:45.04 | Shirik | when it was all about the INT 10h |
| 11:45.12 | sylvanaar | fun stuf |
| 11:45.56 | sylvanaar | your bios hands off control of your peripherals to windows usually during the boot process |
| 11:46.11 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I think once we start theorizing about malicious drivers installed, the user's box is already thoroughly fucked |
| 11:46.13 | Shirik | not during my boot process |
| 11:46.33 | Shirik | a friend and I wrote a bootloader and the beginnings of an OS |
| 11:46.39 | sylvanaar | heh |
| 11:46.39 | Shirik | we rely so heavily on the bios because we were lazy :P |
| 11:47.33 | Shirik | It's kinda wierd though, we added a little application so that you can scroll through the memory map |
| 11:47.40 | Shirik | and when you get to where the video memory is mapped |
| 11:47.45 | Shirik | it goes haywire |
| 11:47.50 | sylvanaar | lol |
| 11:48.00 | Shirik | because it updates and then it changes because the video changed |
| 11:48.38 | sylvanaar | i thought there used to be an option to mask that in some bioses |
| 11:48.54 | Shirik | well we really just wrote it to prove we were doing things right |
| 11:48.56 | Shirik | don't really care :P |
| 11:49.31 | sylvanaar | low level stuff is fun for a little while |
| 11:49.50 | sylvanaar | its really tedious |
| 11:50.57 | Shirik | I'm a computer engineer |
| 11:51.34 | Shirik | you should read the paper I wrote and then complain about tedious :) |
| 11:51.58 | foxlit | booring! |
| 11:52.10 | Shirik | it advocates taking a maybe 5 line for loop and translating it into about 100-150 assembly instructions |
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| 11:59.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Lyn (n=Lyn@Ld7a3.l.pppool.de) |
| 12:17.55 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/bshit/2_girls_1_cup.jpg :D |
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| 12:19.59 | Shirik | I am scared to click |
| 12:20.12 | mikma | good, then you'll laugh harder |
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| 12:28.50 | Lyn | mikmanski |
| 12:30.32 | mikma | scheisse, lyn! |
| 12:30.38 | Lyn | mikma, LEDERHOSEN! |
| 12:30.59 | Ose | http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/526/wowscrnshot030809183208.jpg |
| 12:31.01 | Ose | WHAT |
| 12:31.03 | Ose | THE |
| 12:31.14 | Lyn | LOL |
| 12:31.21 | mikma | hah |
| 12:32.07 | mikma | that's 18k on our server ^^ keke.. |
| 12:33.19 | Lyn | i never have that luck :o |
| 12:34.59 | Zyndrome | and you never will! |
| 12:35.00 | Zyndrome | aaaaaaahahahahah |
| 12:35.02 | Zyndrome | ._. |
| 12:36.02 | Lyn | i know QQ |
| 12:40.13 | Lyn | but i have |
| 12:40.17 | Lyn | greatness! |
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| 12:56.33 | ZorbaTHut | someone forgot to hit 0 a few times |
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| 13:02.57 | mikma | shirik: was the 2 girls 1 cup cool? |
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| 13:49.51 | Kraps | leveling as disc will BLOW YOUR MIND /discuss |
| 13:50.38 | Kraps | amidoinitrite? |
| 13:51.04 | Lopeppeppy | *gentle shrug* Everyone has what they prefer. If you like it, then it's awesome by default. |
| 13:51.28 | Kraps | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:51.52 | Lopeppeppy | So was your /discuss, what do you want for a Monday morning? Elitist Jerks has whatever opinion you're looking to hear. |
| 13:52.40 | Kraps | heh |
| 13:56.34 | Kraps | what do they mean by "bgs will be queueable from anywhere"? a ui option to queue a bg without the portals? |
| 13:56.54 | foxlit | The PvP ex-paperdoll frame has a "queue me up, scotty!" button. |
| 13:57.28 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, I remember when they changed pvp queuing to *prevent* the addon that did that! |
| 13:58.18 | foxlit | the generals will surely get lonely when all of the battlemasters are removed. |
| 13:58.57 | Lopeppeppy | That they will. |
| 13:59.19 | foxlit | (or perhaps they aren't removing the NPCs -- RP servers and all that) |
| 13:59.49 | kd3 | pvpers are bound by habit |
| 14:00.13 | kd3 | I'm bound to assume that a not insubstantial portion of the population will still head to the battlemasters post 3.1 |
| 14:00.56 | Lopeppeppy | But once they learn they can farm while they wait for their queue... omg. |
| 14:01.04 | foxlit | "not insubstantial" <3 |
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| 14:01.34 | kd3 | I <3 using that double-negative |
| 14:01.54 | foxlit | I say we move to quad-negatives. |
| 14:02.01 | foxlit | doubles are so last season. |
| 14:02.22 | Lopeppeppy | But always sexy |
| 14:03.25 | Kraps | whats the percentage for priest hit? |
| 14:04.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Daedals (n=Daedals@dsl-kpobrasgw1-feb8fb00-232.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:05.07 | foxlit | http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_hit , box. |
| 14:05.08 | kd3 | www.wowwiki.com/Spell_hit |
| 14:05.50 | Kraps | ty |
| 14:06.10 | Kraps | Spell hit increases the chance spells will hit |
| 14:06.12 | Kraps | ^ |
| 14:10.59 | *** join/#wowuidev kneeki (n=chatzill@66.45.169.50) |
| 14:11.22 | kneeki | Morning everyone |
| 14:15.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Jerek_Dain (n=JerekDai@71-82-124-81.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 14:16.08 | Lopeppeppy | Morning. |
| 14:21.18 | kneeki | Anyone want to clue me in what I'm doing wrong? http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15443413016&sid=1 |
| 14:21.23 | kneeki | 3 days and 0 replies |
| 14:23.37 | [draco] | without looking at the topic: you posted in blizzard's forums |
| 14:23.53 | kneeki | I have one going in the forums at WoWI as well |
| 14:24.16 | mikma | kneeki: let's try this again with thought hehe |
| 14:24.26 | kneeki | There I did get a few replies, and they helped me with a few other issues |
| 14:24.27 | mikma | kneeki: for me it looks like the icon needs the round mask? |
| 14:24.40 | mikma | the icon is now shaped as []. but you need it to be shaped () |
| 14:24.46 | kneeki | mikma: Mhmm, but I have no idea how to do that |
| 14:24.59 | mikma | kneeki: me neither, let's see how buttonfuck does it |
| 14:25.01 | kneeki | I assumed that the texturing from ButtonFacade would take care of it |
| 14:25.38 | kneeki | Also, my templates are pretty much a copy/paste of the ActionButtonTemplte.xml code that blizzard uses, why does ButtonFacade work with it, and not my code? |
| 14:26.07 | mikma | where can i find buttonfuck? |
| 14:26.17 | mikma | oh there it is |
| 14:26.27 | kneeki | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info12097-ButtonFacade.html |
| 14:26.28 | kneeki | there |
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| 14:28.48 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 14:30.20 | mikma | kneeki: looks like default buttonfuck doesn't even handle rounded textures |
| 14:30.46 | [draco] | there's round textures for bf, though |
| 14:30.52 | kneeki | Exactly |
| 14:30.54 | mikma | yeah but where |
| 14:30.59 | kneeki | And they work perfectly with the default WoW buttons |
| 14:31.13 | kneeki | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info8875-ButtonFacadeSerenity.html |
| 14:31.18 | kneeki | ^ round for BF |
| 14:31.56 | [draco] | there should be some in default BF, too |
| 14:32.09 | mikma | for i = 1, #buttons do group:AddButton(buttons[i]) buttons[i]:Show() end |
| 14:32.09 | kneeki | I don't think there are any in default BF |
| 14:32.15 | mikma | have you done stuff like that in your code? |
| 14:32.23 | [draco] | some gearwheel-ish looking |
| 14:32.26 | [draco] | dunno about the name |
| 14:32.38 | kneeki | mikma: Added the buttons to the group, yea |
| 14:32.40 | foxlit | gears |
| 14:32.52 | kneeki | do I have to readd them every skin change you think? |
| 14:33.02 | kneeki | for a kind of 'refresh' ? |
| 14:33.06 | mikma | kneeki: still i suggest you have a look at the ButtonTest.lua in ButtonFacade |
| 14:33.09 | foxlit | no. |
| 14:33.13 | mikma | see if it does something differently |
| 14:33.18 | kneeki | I'll do that |
| 14:34.15 | mikma | also |
| 14:34.20 | mikma | have you named your buttons? :P |
| 14:34.41 | kneeki | huh? |
| 14:34.48 | kneeki | Of course |
| 14:35.15 | mikma | i'm going to go wild and test buttonfuck with my addon now |
| 14:35.15 | kneeki | Well, what do you mean by 'named' ? |
| 14:35.20 | kneeki | lol |
| 14:35.35 | mikma | local button = CreateFrame("Button","Haibutton1",UIParent) |
| 14:35.42 | mikma | Haibutton1:Show() |
| 14:35.44 | mikma | etc |
| 14:35.45 | kneeki | Oh yeah, of course |
| 14:35.53 | foxlit | "buttonfuck" << a not entirely unsubtle comment on the amount of pain that API causes? |
| 14:35.55 | kneeki | I just didn't want to confuse what you ment |
| 14:38.20 | mikma | oh this needs "AddOns" too |
| 14:38.26 | mikma | doesn't work with default blizzard buttons, etc.. |
| 14:38.35 | kneeki | I know |
| 14:38.53 | kneeki | If you install http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info12276-BarKeep_ButtonFacade.html , it will update your default bars |
| 14:41.45 | kneeki | hmmm.... |
| 14:46.54 | kneeki | In his ButtonTest, he's just using :SetTexture(), not creating a new texture layer, and using SetAlLPoints() l ike I am |
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| 15:04.45 | kneeki | I don't think I understand how :SetTexture() works ... |
| 15:05.46 | kneeki | button.IconFrame:SetTexture("path") does not work, and returns an error about IconFrame not existing. But, if I use 'local t = button:CreateTexture(nil, "BACKGROUND")' then set the texture, and assign the points following up with button.IconFrame = t, it works without issue |
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| 15:07.00 | zenzelezz | too vague. How do you create button.IconFrame before you attempt to call SetTexture on it? |
| 15:07.15 | kneeki | It's in the XML template |
| 15:07.45 | kneeki | ClassButton[frame] = CreateFrame("Button", "ClassButton"..frame, UIParent, "ClassButtonsTemplate"); button = _G["ClassButton"..frame] |
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| 15:42.42 | Ose | http://chickencrap.com/images/1472.jpg holy shit... |
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| 15:52.13 | mikma | ose: yah :) |
| 15:52.35 | Lopeppeppy | Never piss off a wizard. |
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| 15:55.47 | Vilkku | hello guys |
| 15:55.52 | Vilkku | is it possible to sort tables? |
| 15:56.19 | Vilkku | say I have a table with names and values |
| 15:56.42 | krka | you can sort tables with continuous integer keys |
| 15:56.43 | Vilkku | then sort according to value (highest first) and then get that value and that name? |
| 15:56.48 | krka | for other tables, sorting is not meaningful |
| 15:57.05 | Vilkku | care to explain? |
| 15:57.10 | krka | i just did! |
| 15:57.22 | krka | is it possible to sort tables? <-- yes! |
| 15:58.21 | Vilkku | :< |
| 15:58.34 | mikma | table.sort(table) or something lol |
| 15:59.47 | krka | see the lua manual, it explains how to sort |
| 16:00.23 | jnwhiteh | !api table.sort |
| 16:00.23 | lua_bot | Documentation for 'table.sort' can be found at http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#pdf-table.sort |
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| 16:39.01 | kneeki | Anyone happen to have a link to the Ubuntu 9.10 beta torrent? |
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| 16:48.42 | Lopeppeppy | kneeki, did you see maul's response to you? http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15443413016&sid=1 |
| 16:49.03 | kneeki | Lopeppeppy: No, I havn't... Reading it now! |
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| 16:49.55 | Lunessa | station |
| 16:50.05 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, Lunessa dear. |
| 16:50.18 | Lopeppeppy | AFK for sheepling! |
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| 17:12.43 | Lunessa | Today is Azuregos - "This place is under my protection. The mysteries of the arcane shall remain inviolate!" |
| 17:19.14 | Vilkku | hmm, how do I simply add a value to an array? :P |
| 17:19.30 | Vilkku | do I always have to specify the key? |
| 17:21.14 | foxlit | table.insert(t, value) |
| 17:21.54 | Vilkku | cheers |
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| 17:25.48 | Dagmar | You will unless you want it to try and just pick a place to stick that value on it's own. |
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| 17:34.56 | foxlit | Hm |
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| 17:40.54 | Anaral_Pidgin | In the PTR video options there's a new checkbox for Projected Textures. What exactly does the projected textures affect? The tooltip uses the term to define itself. |
| 17:41.50 | Dagmar | No idea. |
| 17:42.09 | Dagmar | I couldn't spot any difference in anything in particular |
| 17:43.14 | alestane | Ground effects, I believe. Consecrate, D&D, Scorched Earth, etc. |
| 17:43.19 | Anaral_Pidgin | It says it greatly improves performance... must be something. |
| 17:43.44 | Anaral_Pidgin | But I thought that was the new slider... this is just a text box |
| 17:47.00 | Vilkku | okey, another question, how do you get the number of values in an array? |
| 17:47.09 | foxlit | #array |
| 17:48.00 | durcyn | Anaral: I'd recommend leaving it on, it's used for at least two fights in ulduar thus far |
| 17:48.12 | Anaral_Pidgin | Otay |
| 17:48.33 | foxlit | alestane: as in the new ring-like graphics for stuff like RoF? |
| 17:48.47 | foxlit | (you'd think _that_ would be cheap :/) |
| 17:48.54 | Dagmar | Let's hope it's not a way to turn off ground effects. |
| 17:48.59 | Anaral_Pidgin | Interesting, they added a 'QuestItemBar' type feature. The quest item now displays next to the blizz quest tracker. |
| 17:49.12 | Dagmar | Otherwise without putting a description on that, they've just invented a whole new way for idiots to die from being stupid. |
| 17:49.25 | alestane | I used to have to turn my spell effects up to about 55% to be able to see the ground glow effect of consecrate, and I watched for little wisps of smoke to know when I had to move in Nightbane. |
| 17:49.25 | durcyn | foxlit: it's the rune textures frmo those, yes |
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| 17:49.49 | foxlit | it's odd. |
| 17:50.03 | foxlit | The particle mess would probably be harder to render than the runes :/ |
| 17:50.16 | durcyn | which is why particle density is its own slider now. |
| 17:50.51 | foxlit | (for ages) |
| 17:50.57 | durcyn | Dagmar: and yes, it's an amazingly easy way to suicide on Hodir - without the rune texture, all you get is a column of snow particles |
| 17:51.45 | Dagmar | Okay, so then it IS a new way to fail |
| 17:51.49 | Dagmar | We should carp at the devs about the lack of a description then |
| 17:53.21 | Lunessa | Oh hai, I want to play teh game fast on my old puter, but I always die in raid and everyone yell at meh. halp! |
| 17:53.24 | foxlit | meh, if anything, I'm for adding new and exciting ways to kill people. |
| 17:53.27 | Anaral_Pidgin | Especially if it's as major as the nightbane consequence |
| 17:54.32 | NeoTron | Anaral_Pidgin: I agree on that option.. using the term itself to explain what it does is only useful for the developer that hacked in the code for it :P) |
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| 17:55.57 | Dagmar | foxlit: I want new and exciting ways for *me* to kill people |
| 17:56.06 | Dagmar | Not new and exciting ways for pug people to get *me* killed |
| 17:56.38 | Dagmar | Maybe if the tooltip says "Enable this feature if you go into instances and would like to survive" |
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| 17:59.08 | foxlit | meh |
| 17:59.54 | foxlit | Back in Faerlina's time, the Rain of Fire used to have a radius greater than its graphical effect. And we liked it that way! |
| 18:01.43 | Dagmar | Who wants to stand right on the edge of a big column of fire anyway? |
| 18:01.49 | Dagmar | Sane people give it a wide berth |
| 18:02.50 | foxlit | sane people don't get a lot of casting done, then! |
| 18:03.50 | Dagmar | Because the quarter second it takes to go three more feet is SUCH a problem |
| 18:04.23 | foxlit | 3 feet is hardly a wide berth :) |
| 18:05.28 | durcyn | the safest place is where the ROF just was, let everyone else move and get hit again, the suckers. |
| 18:06.27 | NeoTron | although I know Naxx was a lot harder at 60, I sometimes wonder how much of the "a lot harder" was due to worse players |
| 18:06.31 | Dagmar | I use the "one toon-width" rule. |
| 18:06.37 | Dagmar | It's never failed me. |
| 18:07.13 | NeoTron | I suspect very few guilds didn't at least have soem really horrible players |
| 18:07.47 | foxlit | C'Thun was a lot more sensitive to that than naxx, really. |
| 18:07.53 | Lunessa | Oh, last night was my first trip to Sapphiron. I was told to run away from the ice blocks and hide for deep breath. /facepalm |
| 18:09.16 | Lunessa | After my 2nd death to Deep Breath, I asked "WTF Guys, I'm doing what you said." And the raid erupted in laughter. I hate being the new guy. |
| 18:10.04 | foxlit | The best strategy for everything is clearly "follow Bob" |
| 18:13.18 | Dagmar | NeoTron: I would agree |
| 18:13.42 | Dagmar | I used to buy into the idea that raiding guilds were somehow composed of more attentive, more skilled players. |
| 18:14.14 | Dagmar | Having watched a lot of videos and shoulder surfed players in these guilds, now I'm pretty sure that the one thing they can do is get 25 people in one place inside of an hour or so |
| 18:14.38 | Lunessa | I was trying to process a lot of new information on a fight no one wanted to explain and I'd never seen before. Obviously, it was a set up. |
| 18:15.11 | foxlit | Lunessa: to be fair, the Sapphiron fight is basically "head bad, tail bad, don't stand in crap". |
| 18:15.22 | foxlit | The iceblock mechanic is the only thing that isn't immediately obvious |
| 18:15.28 | Dagmar | Kinda standard for all dragons |
| 18:15.42 | foxlit | Some tails are benign, but that's more of an exception than a rule. |
| 18:15.49 | Lunessa | foxlit: Yes, I watched it while dead. I'll never die on it again due to "not knowing" and "being told to runa way from ice blocks." |
| 18:16.04 | Dagmar | Sort of like "that particular rabid coyote won't bite you" |
| 18:19.11 | Lunessa | Yeah. The joke was on me last night. I was the only one who had never seen the fight before, and the raid leader and his cronies thought it a good natured hazing ritual. But you better believe I made them describe K'T in detail. :P |
| 18:20.04 | foxlit | I question anyone's ability to describe K'T in a concise fashion |
| 18:20.37 | Dagmar | Stuff like this is the reason I've got enemy buffs blown up to the size of my thumb on that unit frame |
| 18:20.50 | Dagmar | big icon == bad stuff |
| 18:20.50 | Lunessa | They had a plan, and the explanation only took about 3 minutes. |
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| 18:36.06 | p3lim | what does "abundant" mean? |
| 18:36.45 | Lopeppeppy | A lot. |
| 18:36.50 | Lopeppeppy | Plenty. |
| 18:36.56 | p3lim | ah ok |
| 18:36.58 | p3lim | thanks |
| 18:40.54 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, Jelly-dear. |
| 18:41.58 | |Jelly| | zomg |
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| 19:07.51 | Lunessa | Dave Mattews Band playing via iTunes makes me mellow. |
| 19:08.34 | Lunessa | Sadly, the two cups of coffee are making me jittery. Strange combo. |
| 19:10.47 | Shirik | Cairenn |
| 19:10.50 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah, very weird. |
| 19:11.14 | NightHawkTheSane | >.> does anyone here use Doctrine? |
| 19:11.37 | mikma | friend list synching addons, anyone know any nice ones? =) |
| 19:11.45 | Lunessa | In the strictly phiolosphical sense? |
| 19:11.56 | NightHawkTheSane | in the ORM for PHP sense. |
| 19:12.10 | Lunessa | mikma: FriendsShare still works. |
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| 19:13.01 | mikma | lunessa: thanks baby |
| 19:13.18 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 19:13.49 | durcyn | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:14.23 | mikma | still a baby |
| 19:14.43 | mikma | everyone is a baby if (s)he does something cool |
| 19:14.46 | Lopeppeppy | Morning, Shirik |
| 19:14.56 | Lunessa | mikma: I'm one of the chronologically older persons present. But compliment accepted. |
| 19:15.12 | ScytheBlade1 | He's an old fart |
| 19:15.27 | mikma | lunessa: ss or it didn't happen |
| 19:15.58 | Shirik | I'm a baby |
| 19:16.02 | Lunessa | I don't take screenies of those. Really. Some things should never been seen in public. :P |
| 19:16.20 | Shirik | sorry, internet reference required |
| 19:16.22 | Shirik | I'm a babby |
| 19:16.42 | Lunessa | That's my FACE. |
| 19:16.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh. |
| 19:16.57 | ScytheBlade1 | bah crap |
| 19:17.00 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm laughing in class |
| 19:17.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Getting weird looks |
| 19:17.04 | ScytheBlade1 | -.- |
| 19:17.21 | Shirik | bad ScytheBlade1 |
| 19:17.50 | Lunessa | This is Lunessa drinking wine with Malreth in Austin about a year ago. http://www.flickr.com/photos/fizzboy/2224657032/ |
| 19:18.28 | zenzelezz | Lunessa: your name's not bad. Guy I used to play with in Anarchy Online had chosen the nick "Lunette". French-speaking people kept talking to him in French, because apparently "lunette(s)" is French for sunglasses, or something like that |
| 19:18.39 | foxlit | grr, LaTeX. |
| 19:19.00 | foxlit | Can't reset equation counters per subsection if I don't number subsections :/ |
| 19:19.09 | Lunessa | zenzelezz: I wanted to use other nicks, but I stuck with what was (at the time) my WoW Main and posting toon. |
| 19:19.29 | Tekkub | you sure of that? Lunessa is obviously a female nick |
| 19:19.38 | zenzelezz | Lunessa: same reason I stick to this one, even if it looks like something a 14-year-old would come up with |
| 19:20.16 | Lunessa | Lunessa (the night elf priestess) is female. It was my main for a long time. Male Night Elves look goofy to me. |
| 19:20.21 | mikma | foxlit: latex, kinky |
| 19:20.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Honestly, it had me confused for months until I finally figured out that he was a guy. |
| 19:22.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Then head = head.next(); |
| 19:22.15 | ScytheBlade1 | whoops |
| 19:22.19 | ScytheBlade1 | Stupid paste |
| 19:22.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Then again, you're talking to the king of 12-year old internet names so |
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| 19:25.01 | Lopeppeppy | My original handle is... 15+ years old. |
| 19:26.38 | Lunessa | Well, my original handle is older than most of the members of this channel, but I don't use it. And the one I used from my EQ days is still my login to WoWUI. But... when I joined the channel here, I wanted people to be able to link me to mu UI & Macros forum posts. |
| 19:27.30 | Arrowmaster | my handle is like 12+ years old i think |
| 19:27.52 | ScytheBlade1 | This one is 9, I believe |
| 19:27.55 | ScytheBlade1 | possibly 10 |
| 19:30.16 | Lunessa | I used to be a BBS admin in the 80s. I was one of the co-admins and programmers for DarkfireGS (BBS software for the Apple ][) I used a handle back then for a Book and Movie review feature. So, that puts my original handle (Daemir) at something like 23 years old. And makes me think I maybe need to get a life. |
| 19:30.41 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 19:31.24 | Arrowmaster | yeah older than me |
| 19:33.59 | alestane | Lunessa: But what would you do with it? |
| 19:34.36 | Lopeppeppy | Eat more pie. |
| 19:36.07 | Lunessa | alestane: I don't know. It might look nice on the mantle piece. |
| 19:36.21 | alestane | Geta soul instead, they're shiny and purple. |
| 19:38.47 | Lunessa | I can't. Already traded it for a big pile of cash in the .com bubble. |
| 19:39.01 | foxlit | Hm, I wonder. If I wrote if {a(c), b(c) | c in Cs} expresses what I think it does. |
| 19:39.14 | foxlit | s/wrote/wonder/ |
| 19:39.27 | foxlit | heh, that doesn't make sense. |
| 19:40.02 | alestane | Lunessa: Who said it had to be yours? |
| 19:40.13 | Lunessa | alestane: Drain Soul FTW? |
| 19:40.47 | alestane | You want souls man. I got those. You want that kind? I can get it for you man. |
| 19:42.00 | durcyn | Lopeppeppy: you need a simian sphere, then. |
| 19:42.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Pizik (n=Blank@planeshift/gamemaster/Pizik) |
| 19:42.29 | alestane | Would this sphere be...super, by any chance? |
| 19:43.12 | Lunessa | alestane: Look up the short story "We Can Get Them For You Wholesale." |
| 19:43.28 | alestane | I think I've read that, but it may have been a while. |
| 19:44.21 | Lunessa | Neil Gaiman. It's fun. |
| 19:44.25 | Lopeppeppy | I just want a hamster ball. |
| 19:45.59 | mikma | lopeppeppy: big enough to fit inside? |
| 19:46.00 | alestane | Why would I need other wishes? |
| 19:46.04 | mikma | that would be cool |
| 19:46.12 | mikma | but only if its clear plastic |
| 19:46.21 | mikma | then you can watch tv |
| 19:47.51 | Pizik | Zorb |
| 19:48.42 | Lopeppeppy | mikma, boy in the bubble. |
| 19:49.23 | Jamash | http://www.zorb.com.cn/giant-human-hamster-ball.htm |
| 19:50.30 | mikma | lopeppeppy: hmm that reminded me.. moment |
| 19:51.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Ose (n=Ose@wikia/Ose) |
| 19:51.44 | Jamash | http://m.assetbar.com/achewood/uuagdZf3Q |
| 20:07.47 | mikma | oh sorry, local police show just started |
| 20:08.25 | Lopeppeppy | :P |
| 20:08.32 | Jamash | is this the kind of show that occurs on the television or the kind that occurs outside your front window |
| 20:09.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Aiiane1 (n=Aiiane@starfire.ST.HMC.Edu) |
| 20:17.03 | Lunessa | Hopefully the one one television, but shows them breaking down the door to his house... so that we can see recursion is alive and well in the universe/ |
| 20:18.17 | Lopeppeppy | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:19.32 | foxlit | "isn't fulfilled for any variable" |
| 20:19.38 | Lopeppeppy | Waiting will fill. |
| 20:19.52 | *** join/#wowuidev kmcguire2 (n=kmcguire@24-196-12-215.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com) |
| 20:20.09 | foxlit | Do you read that is "at least one variable doesn't fulfill..." or "all variables do not fulfill..." |
| 20:20.32 | Jamash | I read it as the latter |
| 20:21.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110 (i=Matrix11@pD957B238.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:21.34 | alestane | Same. |
| 20:22.15 | foxlit | I'm trying to avoid "if there exists a variable..." because that's just restating the logical notation within a line of that textual description, but I can't seem to find a natural form to describe the former meaning. |
| 20:24.17 | Jamash | why not just use what you wrote, "at least one variable does'nt fulfill" |
| 20:24.26 | Jamash | er, without the typo |
| 20:26.14 | krka | ¬∃ x, x fullfills |
| 20:26.31 | krka | ∀ x, ¬x fulfills |
| 20:26.35 | Lunessa | Interesting - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15443405133&sid=1&pageNo=5#83 |
| 20:26.39 | krka | yay for unicode |
| 20:27.22 | foxlit | krka: mostly because "∃ x : x doesn't fulfil" is already there in much prettier notation :) |
| 20:27.52 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18) |
| 20:28.07 | foxlit | Jamash: I suppose that works. Dismissed it originally for some silly reason. |
| 20:33.44 | *** part/#wowuidev Anaral1 (n=Anaral_E@WoWUIDev/Norganna/QA-Manager/Anaral) |
| 20:36.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=Shirik@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 20:36.59 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 20:38.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Ose (n=Ose@wikia/Ose) |
| 20:38.24 | |Jelly| | Don't make me parry bomb you! |
| 20:38.27 | Shirik | :P |
| 20:38.35 | |Jelly| | cuz i can splell leik dis |
| 20:38.44 | |Jelly| | It just takes like four times as long to type. |
| 20:41.07 | Shirik | are you kidding me |
| 20:41.12 | Shirik | Hannah Montana is on CMT |
| 20:41.15 | Shirik | gtfo |
| 20:41.16 | Shirik | now |
| 20:41.27 | foxlit | ~wikipedia CMT |
| 20:43.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Pizik_ (n=Blank@planeshift/gamemaster/Pizik) |
| 20:44.12 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlThePagan (n=karl@166.129.11.163) |
| 20:46.55 | Shirik | Example of someone who doesn't know XML |
| 20:47.00 | Shirik | <key1><player>Zurie</player><time>03/04/09 21:26:17</time></key1><key2><player>Taleth</player><time>03/04/09 21:26:17</time></key2> |
| 20:47.08 | Shirik | Who the heck goes <key1>, <key2>, <key3> |
| 20:47.14 | Lunessa | Someone know, off-hand, the name of the action bar for pet controls? |
| 20:47.37 | foxlit | PetActionBar would be a logical choice |
| 20:47.51 | Lunessa | Thanks. Apparently I'm lind. |
| 20:47.54 | Lunessa | blind. |
| 20:48.00 | Shirik | Lunessa: Gogo dtframestack! |
| 20:48.04 | durcyn | BonusActionBar according to this bindings-cache i'm looking at |
| 20:48.11 | foxlit | possibly PetActionBarFrame |
| 20:48.19 | foxlit | PetActionBarFrame.xml anyway, check that out |
| 20:48.29 | Lunessa | Yeah, that's what I'm looking at now. |
| 20:54.58 | Shirik | you |
| 20:55.01 | Shirik | you have green name now |
| 20:55.06 | haste | :D |
| 20:55.18 | Shirik | confused me for a second when I was looking at online users list and saw your name |
| 20:55.23 | haste | hell on earth is iminent! |
| 20:55.32 | haste | s/m/mm/ |
| 20:55.54 | Shirik | what OS do you use haste |
| 20:56.09 | haste | Linux, Gentoo to be exact |
| 20:56.13 | Shirik | oh my |
| 20:56.16 | Shirik | I love you now |
| 20:56.19 | Shirik | for two reasons |
| 20:56.22 | Shirik | firstly gentoo is awesome |
| 20:56.30 | Shirik | secondly, you should poke http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20527 |
| 20:56.34 | Shirik | I don't have anyone for gentoo yet |
| 20:56.42 | Shirik | er, for linux yet |
| 20:56.47 | haste | I gave CRUX, FreeBSD, Source Mage and Arch a try when I got the new computer parts |
| 20:56.53 | haste | but I ended up with gentoo as usual |
| 20:58.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Doow (n=Miranda@unaffiliated/doow) |
| 20:59.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=EAndre@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 20:59.33 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 20:59.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Qiler (n=Qiler@aern131.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 20:59.49 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: what did you link and why cant i view it? |
| 20:59.52 | Qiler | Hello |
| 21:00.00 | Shirik | Sekret chats! |
| 21:00.14 | Qiler | Does anyone know the name of cvar "Open loot window at mouse"? |
| 21:00.16 | Shirik | Is for the updater alpha ;) |
| 21:00.26 | Lunessa | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7928996.stm |
| 21:00.58 | Shirik | lmao Lunessa |
| 21:01.41 | Qiler | Anyone? |
| 21:02.21 | foxlit | Qiler: it's not a question you're likely to get answered. |
| 21:02.35 | foxlit | Go find the definition of the relevant checkbox in FrameXML |
| 21:02.46 | foxlit | and see what it does when its state changes :) |
| 21:02.57 | Qiler | How :<? |
| 21:03.25 | haste | ~wowcompare |
| 21:03.26 | purl | rumour has it, wowcompare is http://wowcompares.com |
| 21:03.33 | foxlit | ~framexml |
| 21:03.33 | purl | Get the official Blizzard Interface AddOn Kit here: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/ui/ or view it online at http://wowcompares.com/ |
| 21:04.50 | Qiler | ok, thx |
| 21:09.39 | Qiler | Ok, i found it. thanks :) |
| 21:11.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=Shirik@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 21:11.59 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 21:13.14 | Shirik | ernie |
| 21:13.27 | durcyn | bert? |
| 21:13.32 | Shirik | shh |
| 21:13.37 | Shirik | I didn't actually type that |
| 21:13.40 | Shirik | is a figment of your imagination |
| 21:14.36 | zenzelezz | "ernie", eh... that's a weak password |
| 21:15.40 | mikma | cd .. |
| 21:15.48 | Shirik | ernie is the name of our school network |
| 21:15.54 | foxlit | rm -fr . / |
| 21:15.56 | Shirik | typed in the wrong window |
| 21:16.33 | *** join/#wowuidev keias (n=bleh@pool-72-86-106-233.aubnin.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:18.26 | kneeki | If I'm making a button which allows the player to click-drag the spell off of it to the Cursor, would I use <PreClick> for that? |
| 21:19.41 | Arrowmaster | the secure handlers already do that |
| 21:19.41 | kneeki | Oh? |
| 21:19.41 | kneeki | *bonk* |
| 21:21.40 | Arrowmaster | atleast i thought they did |
| 21:21.42 | foxlit | Or do they? |
| 21:22.13 | kneeki | Using 'SecureActionButtonTemplate' it does not |
| 21:22.31 | mikma | http://kuvaton.com/bshit/shortfilm.jpg |
| 21:22.33 | alestane | No, you also need SecureHandlerDragTemplate. |
| 21:22.36 | *** join/#wowuidev hipjipp (n=hipjipp@83.250.123.131) |
| 21:22.40 | Arrowmaster | ActionBarButtonTemplate does it |
| 21:22.49 | Arrowmaster | but i dont remember if thats safe to use |
| 21:23.24 | *** join/#wowuidev JerekDain (n=JerekDai@71-82-124-81.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 21:24.19 | Arrowmaster | if PickupAction and PlaceAction are available in the restricted enviroment then yeah SecureHandlerDragTemplate |
| 21:24.47 | alestane | SecureHandlerDragTemplate does the placing for you. |
| 21:25.12 | kneeki | Trying that now |
| 21:25.38 | kneeki | inherits="SecureActionButtonTemplate, SecureHandlerDragTemplate" <- click-drag doesn't work |
| 21:25.44 | kneeki | unless I have to do something other than that |
| 21:25.51 | alestane | You have to supply a drag handler. |
| 21:25.59 | kneeki | Ah |
| 21:29.03 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlThePagan (n=karl@lanip-170-65.go180.net) |
| 21:29.14 | *** part/#wowuidev hipjipp (n=hipjipp@83.250.123.131) |
| 21:30.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Tem|work (i=d195b804@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 21:30.29 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Tem|work] by ChanServ |
| 21:33.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=Shirik@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 21:33.53 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 21:40.37 | p3lim | Anyone know what file that contains the FACTION_BAR_COLORS table? |
| 21:42.48 | kneeki | For that SecureHandlerDragTemplate thing, do I just create a frame the size of my button? I'm unsure how it works, there are no notes on it in SecureHandlerTemplates.xml |
| 21:43.25 | Tekkub | FrameXML\ReputationFrame.lua:4:FACTION_BAR_COLORS = { |
| 21:44.40 | p3lim | thanks Tekkub |
| 21:45.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 21:45.46 | mikma | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq_SJ7CtnZI |
| 21:48.43 | mikma | http://www.asylum.com/2009/02/24/caught-on-camera-the-best-of-google-street-view/ :D |
| 21:57.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (n=MikeNGoS@64.193.93.197) |
| 21:58.36 | Mike-N-Go | ~seen travisstorma |
| 21:58.38 | purl | Mike-N-Go: i haven't seen 'travisstorma' |
| 21:58.43 | mikma | :( |
| 21:58.53 | Mike-N-Go | mikma: Hi |
| 21:59.00 | mikma | hai there |
| 22:03.19 | mikma | mike-n-go: *cough* http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info11940-WintergraspTimer.html#comments |
| 22:03.42 | Mike-N-Go | mikma: What about it? |
| 22:03.56 | Arrowmaster | is that your paypal? |
| 22:04.23 | Mike-N-Go | My paypal is MikeNGoSupport@gmail.com. |
| 22:05.18 | p3lim | is UnitSelectionColor(unit) hardcoded in c? |
| 22:06.28 | Dagmar | Well, your life will get easier in 3.1 |
| 22:06.45 | Mike-N-Go | What are we talkin' about? |
| 22:07.13 | Dagmar | Well, I was referring to the Wintergrasp timer |
| 22:07.21 | mikma | GetWintergraspTime() or so |
| 22:07.47 | mikma | p3lim coded broker plugin for it afaik |
| 22:07.54 | Dagmar | I'm just assuming there was some underlying reason why they didn't just add that when they put Wintergrasp in |
| 22:08.42 | p3lim | mikma: yap, but its also shown on the world map if you are in northrend |
| 22:08.57 | Mike-N-Go | Wintergrasp Timer Light or plain Wintergrasp Timer? |
| 22:09.58 | jnwhiteh | the fact that people still make fubar specific addons makes baby jesus cry |
| 22:11.24 | Dagmar | I take heart in the fact that this limits their ability to fill my screen with crap |
| 22:11.25 | Mike-N-Go | jnwhiteh: FuBar2Broker? |
| 22:11.25 | Mike-N-Go | Dagmar: lol |
| 22:11.25 | jnwhiteh | its called FuBar-WintergraspFu |
| 22:11.25 | jnwhiteh | that makes me cry |
| 22:11.25 | Dagmar | CPU power I have. The ability to see through pulsing, wobbling pixmaps, I do not. |
| 22:11.25 | jnwhiteh | its silly imo |
| 22:11.25 | Legorol | jnwhiteh: what's wrong with FuBar? |
| 22:11.25 | Legorol | (that was a neutral question, i never used it) |
| 22:11.25 | Dagmar | jnwhiteh: No more so than every other plugin with the same redundancy in the name |
| 22:11.25 | jnwhiteh | then I don't feel compelled to answer it, ebcause its not relevant. |
| 22:11.31 | jnwhiteh | Dagmar: its not the name that bothers me |
| 22:11.31 | kneeki | Any WoWI mods online? |
| 22:11.37 | jnwhiteh | there's a reason LDB was written |
| 22:11.43 | jnwhiteh | its so addons didn't have to be written for one specific display |
| 22:11.46 | jnwhiteh | that's my problem |
| 22:11.51 | jnwhiteh | it can't solve all the issues.. but it can solve 99% of them |
| 22:11.53 | Dagmar | I figure the "Fubar_" part started just to get sites which list everything together to sort the fuber plugins together |
| 22:12.03 | jnwhiteh | yet people STILL write shit for just one view |
| 22:12.08 | jnwhiteh | its not FuBar that's the problem =) |
| 22:12.45 | Dagmar | You know of an alternative to having them go into some predefined, out-of-the-way place on the screen that *doesn't* turn into more minimap pox? |
| 22:13.02 | jnwhiteh | a few, actually |
| 22:13.10 | *** join/#wowuidev laeg (n=laeg@unaffiliated/laeg) |
| 22:13.17 | laeg | gnomish or goblin engineering for a pvp rogue? |
| 22:13.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Pizik_ (n=Blank@planeshift/gamemaster/Pizik) |
| 22:13.36 | foxlit | critter engineering, personally |
| 22:13.37 | Dagmar | Cite some because I've yet to find anything that does that without overlapping them or doing something really obnoxious |
| 22:13.42 | p3lim | is UnitSelectionColor(unit) hardcoded in c or is it in the blizzard ui files? |
| 22:13.46 | jnwhiteh | NinjaPanel |
| 22:13.54 | NeoTron | and ButtonBin |
| 22:13.54 | jnwhiteh | ButtonBin |
| 22:13.54 | jnwhiteh | Fortress |
| 22:13.56 | foxlit | p3lim: check whether string.dump works on it |
| 22:14.02 | foxlit | Or just grep the FrameXML yourself. |
| 22:14.03 | jnwhiteh | but its not about replacing FuBar |
| 22:14.08 | jnwhiteh | its about addons NOT being written for one display |
| 22:14.08 | bleeter | HAH! three casino threads on CSF atm. course I'm a fucking idiot for saying BLizz US were stupid to remove the explicit casino rule. DOH. |
| 22:14.09 | NeoTron | there's at least one other panel type display too |
| 22:14.10 | jnwhiteh | thats just stupid these days |
| 22:14.16 | bleeter | buncha tools |
| 22:14.16 | Dagmar | leeg: One school is for making useful things which happen to be destructive occasionally, and the other is for making lethal things which are sometimes useful and lethal at the same time. You decide |
| 22:14.30 | p3lim | 'unable to dump given function' |
| 22:14.39 | foxlit | C |
| 22:14.42 | p3lim | ok |
| 22:15.58 | Dagmar | bleeter: Look at it this way.. the resurgence in people trying to skirt the rule will allow us to spot shills more easily |
| 22:16.15 | foxlit | Meh. Addons are still being written for one display format. How long until the poor masses are freed from the tyranny of text pre-defined by addon authors? |
| 22:16.32 | jnwhiteh | ... |
| 22:16.35 | jnwhiteh | k |
| 22:16.38 | Dagmar | When there's more than just one or two fubar-like addons. |
| 22:16.44 | Dagmar | ...that don't suck. |
| 22:16.49 | jnwhiteh | you missed his point |
| 22:16.52 | jnwhiteh | but thanks for playing =) |
| 22:16.59 | mikma | thank you come again |
| 22:17.25 | Dagmar | You're being stubborn. |
| 22:17.34 | jnwhiteh | who is? |
| 22:17.44 | foxlit | Personally, I'm being silly. |
| 22:17.56 | Dagmar | If I'm going to code something, I've got two options. I can code for a specific info manager, or I can code for a generic API. |
| 22:18.11 | jnwhiteh | .. yes |
| 22:18.11 | bleeter | Dagmar: it's just stupid. it's kinda like a bank saying 'you shall not take money that's not yours' and only doing stuff about it when some other account holder complains their balance is wrong >< |
| 22:18.13 | jnwhiteh | that's precisely my point |
| 22:18.19 | Dagmar | Most coders being lazy, they're going to see the options as being equivalent, or go with whomever's documentation is the least irritating, or _go with whatever has more users currently_ |
| 22:18.25 | bleeter | but they're not even explicitly saying... yeah, silly |
| 22:18.27 | jnwhiteh | well |
| 22:18.31 | jnwhiteh | LDB has better documentation |
| 22:18.37 | jnwhiteh | and its quite well used |
| 22:18.43 | jnwhiteh | so who's being stubborn? |
| 22:18.52 | bleeter | meh, I'm not the GM manager. Not my problem. Just wish my $15 was put to better use >< |
| 22:19.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=muffins@c-71-197-12-179.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 22:19.08 | mikma | jnwhiteh: but LDB was written by an ass |
| 22:19.12 | jnwhiteh | truth |
| 22:19.13 | Dagmar | I am frequently trawling through Curse and WowUI and at the moment I couldn't tell you what uses LDB, but I know Fubar and whatever I used before it are there |
| 22:19.15 | NightHawkTheSane | so was fubar :P |
| 22:19.25 | mikma | truth |
| 22:19.32 | jnwhiteh | Dagmar: I am NOT telling you to use LDB |
| 22:19.36 | NightHawkTheSane | im pretty sure 90% of the people here are asses. :P |
| 22:19.42 | Dagmar | jnwhiteh: I'm not saying you |
| 22:19.43 | jnwhiteh | I'm telling you that the fact that view specific addons are still beign written is stupid. |
| 22:19.44 | Dagmar | are |
| 22:19.56 | jnwhiteh | FuBar2Broker is a hack but it works |
| 22:19.57 | Dagmar | jnwhiteh: You call it "stupid". I call it practical. |
| 22:20.04 | jnwhiteh | its not |
| 22:20.15 | jnwhiteh | that's what I'mt rying to explain to you |
| 22:20.22 | jnwhiteh | its absurdly easy to write an LDB plugin |
| 22:20.34 | Dagmar | Dude if your standard were held country-wide, no one would develop anything for Windows anymore |
| 22:20.47 | mikma | hell, even i managed to do it |
| 22:20.47 | mikma | i call that easy |
| 22:21.07 | jnwhiteh | O.o |
| 22:21.07 | jnwhiteh | no, that's not what it means at all |
| 22:21.07 | jnwhiteh | i'm done with this now |
| 22:22.05 | jnwhiteh | O.o |
| 22:22.05 | Dagmar | There's better operating systems for people to develop many things on, Windows just happesn to be a so-so fit for most of them with a HUGE installed base |
| 22:22.05 | jnwhiteh | this analogy |
| 22:22.05 | jnwhiteh | not so much |
| 22:22.14 | ScytheBlade1 | jnwhiteh: you stopped before kickbanning someone. This is a monumental occasion |
| 22:22.14 | jnwhiteh | lol |
| 22:22.14 | mikma | hah |
| 22:22.14 | jnwhiteh | i only do that to those that deserve it |
| 22:22.14 | jnwhiteh | like mikma |
| 22:22.14 | jnwhiteh | and I almost NEVER kickban |
| 22:22.15 | *** kick/#wowuidev [mikma!n=jnwhiteh@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire] by jnwhiteh (It's mikma's fault anyways.) |
| 22:22.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Just sayin'. |
| 22:22.15 | jnwhiteh | I KICKED MIKMA SO HARD THAT XINHUAN FELT IT! |
| 22:22.15 | ScytheBlade1 | rofl |
| 22:22.15 | *** join/#wowuidev mikma (i=mikma@reaktio.net) |
| 22:22.15 | mikma | hai guys! |
| 22:22.16 | jnwhiteh | 22:21 jnwhiteh: I KICKED MIKMA SO HARD THAT XINHUAN FELT IT! |
| 22:22.16 | NightHawkTheSane | ~cower jnwhiteh |
| 22:22.17 | NightHawkTheSane | bah! |
| 22:22.20 | Dagmar | Hah. Doing a little digging I find that Titan does LDB. |
| 22:22.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal_ (n=Torhal@74-130-66-145.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 22:22.31 | Dagmar | That's all nice and dandy but I ditched Titan in favor of Fubar long ago |
| 22:22.34 | jnwhiteh | Dagmar: as does FuBar with the Fubar2Broker or whatever plugin |
| 22:22.36 | jnwhiteh | *sigh* |
| 22:22.37 | jnwhiteh | point |
| 22:22.39 | jnwhiteh | missed |
| 22:22.39 | jnwhiteh | again |
| 22:22.42 | NightHawkTheSane | Broker2Fubar, but yes. |
| 22:22.43 | jnwhiteh | FuBar handles LDB |
| 22:22.45 | jnwhiteh | with an addon |
| 22:22.48 | jnwhiteh | since ckk won't add it. |
| 22:22.50 | jnwhiteh | Titan handles LDB |
| 22:22.52 | jnwhiteh | everything handles it |
| 22:22.54 | jnwhiteh | point in case |
| 22:22.55 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 22:22.56 | ckknight | what's all this then? |
| 22:22.59 | jnwhiteh | i'm going to bed now. |
| 22:23.01 | ckknight | it's not that I won't |
| 22:23.03 | ckknight | I'm just lazy. |
| 22:23.07 | jnwhiteh | =) |
| 22:23.11 | jnwhiteh | its true |
| 22:23.12 | jnwhiteh | you don't need to |
| 22:23.14 | Lunessa | Titan Panel recently got a huge overhaul, and it's Ace3 and LDB-aware now. Pretty slick. |
| 22:23.16 | jnwhiteh | but the "lusers" would want you to |
| 22:23.22 | ckknight | yea |
| 22:23.26 | ckknight | I probably will one day |
| 22:23.27 | jnwhiteh | I dont fault you at all, considering there's already somethign that works |
| 22:23.29 | ckknight | that day is not today |
| 22:23.31 | mikma | Titan Poopnel |
| 22:23.36 | ckknight | hehe, poop |
| 22:23.45 | jnwhiteh | I just don't like that people still make view specific stuff when all the addons can get at LDB feeds |
| 22:23.51 | jnwhiteh | UNLESS they need fubar specific stuff |
| 22:23.55 | jnwhiteh | some of which is still pretty swish =) |
| 22:24.19 | Dagmar | Well, you could always find a way to get ckk to take LDB patches |
| 22:24.28 | ckknight | I accept patches |
| 22:24.28 | jnwhiteh | he doesn't need to |
| 22:24.29 | mikma | i was planning on adding LDB feed without ldb included |
| 22:24.30 | ckknight | I absolutely do |
| 22:24.32 | mikma | now how fun is that? |
| 22:24.40 | Dagmar | ...or start hassling the people who make fubar-centric code to fork their trees for an LDB version |
| 22:25.40 | jnwhiteh | *sigh* |
| 22:25.40 | jnwhiteh | http://wowprogramming.com/forums/website/229#forums/website/229/635 |
| 22:26.03 | ScytheBlade1 | jnwhiteh: lol |
| 22:26.28 | ScytheBlade1 | The nice thing about (WoW) Lua is not caring about that in the least. |
| 22:26.32 | Dagmar | Hmm.. I may take a whack at Ninjapanel tonight |
| 22:26.45 | jnwhiteh | Dagmar: don't bother, it sucks in its curren tincarnation |
| 22:26.46 | jnwhiteh | but it works for me |
| 22:26.51 | jnwhiteh | and I ran out of time =) |
| 22:27.00 | mikma | NINJAAAAAA |
| 22:27.06 | jnwhiteh | some other douchebags apparently have the same needs I have.. so it works =) |
| 22:27.09 | Dagmar | Well, it's got hte important thing, which is *less crap* on my screen |
| 22:27.18 | jnwhiteh | if you use FuBar |
| 22:27.21 | Dagmar | Honestly, that's one of the reasons I jumped from Titan to FuBar |
| 22:27.22 | jnwhiteh | continue to use it =) |
| 22:27.29 | Tuller | I find not using plugins helps :P |
| 22:27.31 | jnwhiteh | well Ninja won't help that |
| 22:27.54 | jnwhiteh | since most of the minimap buttons are probably using the fubar system to display them |
| 22:27.54 | jnwhiteh | hence why it speals them |
| 22:28.02 | Dagmar | Tuller: No thanks. Every time we have a major patch I feel like I somehow lost several fingers in a tragic stapler accident without noticing |
| 22:28.21 | Tuller | I mean fubar plugins, etc :P |
| 22:28.23 | Tuller | not addons, you should use addons |
| 22:28.27 | Tuller | especially mine |
| 22:28.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (n=xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 22:28.44 | Dagmar | Man I had to install SexyMap just to cut down on the pox. I've definittely got everything that could go into fubar with it's minimap button option off |
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| 22:34.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Eggi (n=eggi@91.142.22.48) |
| 22:35.15 | Eggi | if i create a release from the svn... is it normal that there is no pending-status-text? |
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| 22:55.08 | cbreak | tonight my guild got four different OS achievements at the same time for one of our members :) |
| 22:55.29 | cbreak | I mean five |
| 22:55.43 | [draco] | like, all of them? |
| 22:55.43 | cbreak | ah... no four... but it was great :) |
| 22:55.56 | Kirov | heh |
| 22:55.59 | cbreak | no, we didn't manage a three drake kill yet |
| 22:56.07 | Kirov | 10 man or 25? |
| 22:56.14 | cbreak | 20 man :) |
| 22:56.46 | cbreak | we had 25 man 3 drake tries scheduled but only 20 people turned up :( |
| 22:57.02 | [draco] | -.- |
| 22:57.07 | cbreak | I wonder if all guilds have those problems |
| 22:57.23 | [draco] | we had those, but we just recruited new people :D |
| 22:57.42 | [draco] | If they don't wanna raid, fine, we'll find someone who does. |
| 22:58.26 | cbreak | unfortunately my guild isn't that popular, we don't get many recruits. ah well :) |
| 22:59.27 | Kirov | Our guild has about 15 people who are good enough to do 3 drakes, and 10 who aren't. |
| 22:59.42 | Kirov | So, we usually down it with 10 people deaed. |
| 22:59.47 | Kirov | (the same 10) |
| 23:00.09 | cbreak | we have about 15 raiders and 20 casual raiders |
| 23:00.19 | cbreak | and many more even more casuals |
| 23:01.21 | cbreak | raiding is so fun when people are playing properly :) |
| 23:06.19 | Dagmar | Agreed |
| 23:06.19 | Dagmar | It's so hard to find raid leaders who will wait for everyone to get their bowls packed and their bong hits taken care of before the boss pull |
| 23:06.52 | cbreak | I just make a /readycheck |
| 23:07.07 | cbreak | and if all are ready we start |
| 23:08.30 | Dagmar | Now the question is, does the readycheck require hardware interaction to register a click? |
| 23:08.44 | cbreak | no |
| 23:09.02 | Dagmar | Win! We can script it! |
| 23:09.17 | cbreak | sure we can |
| 23:09.17 | cbreak | but it's pointless |
| 23:09.24 | Dagmar | No it's not. Publish a plugin that does that but also responds to a specific query. |
| 23:09.30 | [draco] | if they do, get rid of 'em |
| 23:09.34 | cbreak | I mean, what's the point of a ready check? |
| 23:09.35 | Dagmar | Then publish a plugin that wrappers readycheck with a kick for anyone running the first plugin |
| 23:09.40 | cbreak | it's to find out if all are ready |
| 23:10.24 | cbreak | if people intend to not be ready they can just use /afk |
| 23:14.36 | Dewin | I get readycheck spam so much I tend to just click yes out of habit to get rid of the box and then go "Oh, I should eat my food" |
| 23:16.13 | [draco] | nasty habit |
| 23:16.21 | Codayus | That sounds like a raid leader problem. |
| 23:16.34 | [draco] | annoys the fuck out of me when my raiders do that |
| 23:16.50 | cbreak | I don't care. their problem if they lack buffs |
| 23:17.07 | Dewin | well, it's usually just on bosses or complicated pulls. |
| 23:17.12 | cbreak | I am a raid leader, not a baby sitter :) |
| 23:17.31 | [draco] | it isn't their problem if every single dps counts |
| 23:17.36 | Dewin | not that food buffs really affect the outcome of our fights. |
| 23:17.50 | [draco] | then they're screwing the raid because they are lazy or whatever |
| 23:18.02 | Dewin | save for Malygos or Sarth+n |
| 23:19.41 | cbreak | I guess I expect more self responsibility of my raiders than usual |
| 23:20.33 | *** join/#wowuidev PProvost (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 23:20.33 | cbreak | but my guild isn't that hardcore anyway |
| 23:21.22 | Codayus | On a practical level, it's well known that if a user has a popup error message or alert too often, they'll ignore it. Doing two ready checks before every pull (which I've seen...) is going to make people ignore them, no matter how responsible they are. |
| 23:22.22 | cbreak | I encourage people to click "Not ready" if they aren't ready. |
| 23:22.51 | Codayus | (Which is why the "are you sure you want to... save/quit/overwrite/whatever" dialog boxes are almost always silly. In most cases, they do nothing more than train people to click yes...) |
| 23:23.27 | Corrodias | in excel, the save method just ends up being control+s, spacebar. |
| 23:23.27 | Dewin | cbreak: Usually if I'm not ready it's because I'm AFK (and thus not able to click the box), or I only need ~20 seconds to get ready (in which case I, if I'm not blindly clicking yes, I just leave the box up until I am ready) |
| 23:23.50 | Thunder_Child | ^^ same |
| 23:25.02 | Dewin | I tried helping a computer-illiterate friend with Vista update addons the other day. |
| 23:25.15 | cbreak | I think the idea is good: annoy users enough to tell the devs to fix their crappy broken apps that only work with admin rights |
| 23:25.24 | cbreak | so users can work with normal user accounts instead |
| 23:25.25 | Dewin | Mondo pain to have to click 'overwrite this, yes to the next X conflicts' about 3 times per addon. |
| 23:25.32 | cbreak | but I think users aren't complaining enough |
| 23:25.40 | Dewin | (They use Vista) |
| 23:29.02 | Shirik | UAC is good |
| 23:29.18 | Shirik | it only breaks apps that have been violating Microsoft's advertised best practices since 2000 |
| 23:29.44 | cbreak | I read an interesting article on UAC in Win7 on arstechnica |
| 23:29.46 | Shirik | this is 2009. If your application still violates those practices, either it's old or you need some sense slapped into you |
| 23:30.41 | Shirik | System administrators have hated those apps since 2000 since they can't work reliably on shared computers |
| 23:30.42 | Dewin | Shirik: What I was trying to do wasn't really UAC prompts, it was explorer prompts while trying to overwrite data in a user's home folder |
| 23:30.53 | Dewin | (basically dumping new copies of addons on top of the old ones -- not the cleanest way but easiest) |
| 23:32.01 | cbreak | I sort of like the OS X behavior: replacing a folder replaces the folder and not just the contents |
| 23:32.11 | Dewin | Both behaviors are sometimes useful |
| 23:32.14 | cbreak | but shouldn't there be a "Apply to all" button? |
| 23:32.16 | Shirik | I like OS X behavior too |
| 23:32.20 | Shirik | You don't execute programs |
| 23:32.23 | Shirik | you execute folders |
| 23:32.25 | Dewin | cbreak: It asks 3 different questions |
| 23:32.27 | Shirik | oh wait, no, THAT'S STUPID |
| 23:32.42 | cbreak | oh. wich? :) |
| 23:32.52 | Dewin | I have to select an action and click a checkbox to apply it to the next X conflicts for each question |
| 23:32.57 | Dewin | I don't recall what they were |
| 23:33.09 | Dewin | I don't use Vista myself, so I'm not familiar with the exact prompts |
| 23:33.15 | Dewin | One was to replace files, one was to replace folders, forget the third. |
| 23:33.38 | Dagmar | Things would be simpler if operating systems could execute users. |
| 23:33.50 | cbreak | Shirik: those folders ARE programs |
| 23:34.02 | Shirik | nana, inside is a program |
| 23:34.03 | Shirik | it's a folder |
| 23:34.06 | Dewin | Dagmar: God no. Upgrading can be painful enough as is. |
| 23:34.23 | Dewin | Computer: "Oh yeah? REFORMAT THIS!" |
| 23:34.43 | cbreak | just compare it to linux' behavior |
| 23:34.52 | Dagmar | "You are attempting to move a folder into a sub-folder of itself. Would you like to Resign from the human race or rEconsider? |
| 23:34.55 | cbreak | if I start firefox, it doesn't just execute firefox |
| 23:35.11 | cbreak | it loads tons of other libraries and then executes them together. |
| 23:35.27 | Shirik | Dagmar: wtf? |
| 23:35.53 | Dewin | Dagmar: I had a significantly messed up filesystem have that setup once. |
| 23:36.04 | Dagmar | Just illustrating how much easier operating systems would be to work with if the operating system could execute users instead of just programs. |
| 23:36.15 | Dewin | On a FAT FSI also cd'd into a file that somehow got flagged as a directory. |
| 23:36.19 | Shirik | rofl |
| 23:36.35 | cbreak | multi fork file? |
| 23:36.38 | cbreak | oh, wait, fat... |
| 23:36.40 | Dagmar | Unix response to that: Let you fill your disk up |
| 23:36.51 | Dagmar | Windows response to that: Tell you your disk is getting full and offer to turn on file compression |
| 23:37.02 | Dewin | cbreak: IIRC, dirs on fat are just files with a "D" attribute. |
| 23:38.14 | Dagmar | Mac resource forks are one of those things that come about from over-coddling |
| 23:38.37 | Dewin | but really the only FS I've worked on at that low level is NTFS (I wrote a program to allow ntfs partitions to be moved to a different start sector) |
| 23:39.04 | Dewin | and yeah, I agree resource forks are odd. |
| 23:39.13 | Dewin | though... NTFS has them too, sort of |
| 23:39.15 | cbreak | they were useful |
| 23:39.30 | Dewin | I think they're named alternate data streams there though |
| 23:39.38 | cbreak | yes |
| 23:39.42 | Dagmar | Dawin: That's about as close as you can get without having to invoke the Rite of Ash'Kente, isn't it? |
| 23:39.43 | cbreak | and there can be many of them |
| 23:39.59 | Dagmar | Dawin: They are |
| 23:40.30 | Dagmar | They're used so that Microsoft could hack in ACLs without actually keeping them in somewhere more rational in the filesystem |
| 23:40.30 | Dewin | It's actually how the OS warns you if you're running an EXE you just downloaded off the internet, IE (and I think Firefox now too) adds a fork that basically says its from the internet. |
| 23:40.56 | Dewin | Dagmar: I don't think those are in alternate data streams, thought they were in $MFT. |
| 23:41.01 | Dewin | or similar |
| 23:41.16 | cbreak | OS X has that as extended attribute |
| 23:41.26 | Dagmar | You might be right. Me, I don't use toy operating systems if I actually have to deploy mandatory labelling of objects. |
| 23:42.09 | cbreak | you mean, file names? |
| 23:43.41 | Dewin | Dagmar: I have yet to find a linux distro that works out of the box on this system (I blame the fakeraid) and don't know how well my particular case will handle WoW in wine, otherwise I'd probably be running linux on here. I do admin and code for two debian-based servers at work though |
| 23:44.16 | Rabbitbunny | WoW in wine is annoying. vmware is easier. |
| 23:44.30 | Dewin | I'd think vmware would impose more of a performance hit. |
| 23:44.42 | Rabbitbunny | true, but it'll work at least. |
| 23:44.54 | Rabbitbunny | virtualbox is even lighter. |
| 23:44.55 | Dagmar | cbreak: Actually, I'm talking about something a lot more painful than that |
| 23:45.06 | Dewin | If I'm taking a performance hit I'm not going to bother doing it. |
| 23:45.18 | Dewin | I've heard a few stories of WoW actually running faster under wine than under Windows on the same hardware. |
| 23:45.28 | cbreak | VMWare, at least the os x version (fusion) is a massive performance hit for games |
| 23:45.36 | Dewin | and really, I don't mind the tinkering aspect. |
| 23:45.36 | cbreak | it only partially handles direct x 9 too |
| 23:45.55 | Dagmar | cbreak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Access_Control type stuff where you have to label every object and resource |
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| 23:46.20 | cbreak | uhm... that complement to ACL? |
| 23:46.27 | Dagmar | The popcorn-eating example being so that you can't print a document that's been flagged Top Secret on a printer that's not rated for that clearance level |
| 23:49.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=Shirik@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 23:49.07 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 23:49.33 | Dewin | Dagmar: Out of curiosity, if you're working with that for a living, what OS *are* you using? |
| 23:50.30 | Dagmar | Hah. I used to work with it for a living. Then I decided I'd rather not have to have a stomach transplant due to having the lining burned right out of it |
| 23:50.50 | Dagmar | I'm using Linux for everything that matters at home, with the exception of WoW |
| 23:51.02 | Dewin | okay, s/are/were/ :) |
| 23:51.58 | Dagmar | There's only so many times you can have someone just refuse to follow sensible procedures before you decide it's better to make less money so you can spend less money on the side effects of wanting to shove their heads into a shredder but not being allowed to |
| 23:52.14 | ccox | Dagmar - that sounds something like my career choices as well |
| 23:52.36 | Dewin | I bet. It's hard to get people who are 'higher up' than you follow any sort of security procedures. |
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