IRC log for #wowuidev on 20090206

`00:01.32`	`*** join/#wowuidev TheOther (n=nahh@108.84-49-166.nextgentel.com)`
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`00:08.01`	`*** join/#wowuidev WobWork (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au)`
`00:17.24`	`*** join/#wowuidev bleeter (n=bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter)`
`00:18.13`	`*** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=Lunessa@129.7.95.111) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`00:19.35`	`Thunder_Child`	`http://i.gizmodo.com/5147502/usb-star-trek-communicator-lets-you-do-voip-over-usb`
`00:19.39`	`*** join/#wowuidev Zyndrome (n=faggotry@81-233-206-163-no89.tbcn.telia.com)`
`00:19.50`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@78.146.112.202)`
`00:21.26`	`*** join/#wowuidev cbreak (n=cbreak@217-162-238-189.dclient.hispeed.ch) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`00:22.35`	`Thunder_Child`	`http://i.gizmodo.com/5147237/darth-vaders-theme-played-on-a-hard-drive-is-dorkarificrue`
`00:27.21`	`*** join/#wowuidev Esamynn\|Work (n=nchatzil@d64-180-70-86.bchsia.telus.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`00:28.44`	`bleeter`	`Thunder_Child: used to be able to do that kinda stuff on C= Amigas with their floppies`
`00:30.29`	`bleeter`	`difference being on the Amiga, didn't need a pre-fuxored drive... but the procedure would fuxor the drive`
`00:30.31`	`*** join/#wowuidev Esamynn\|Work (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn)`
`00:30.31`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Esamynn\|Work] by ChanServ`
`00:30.59`	`Tuller`	`cheeks of romance`
`00:31.09`	`Spellbinder`	`Amiga <3`
`00:32.41`	`Spellbinder`	`C= rocks all`
`00:32.57`	`bleeter`	`has anyone made a domestic computer as useful and good as Amiga since it's demise? I really think not. Everyone's still playing catchup.`
`00:33.10`	`bleeter`	`Sure, we've all gone 32 or 64bits, ... still... can't help but thinking... etc.`
`00:33.16`	`Lunessa`	`Tuller: Cheeks of romance? Would that be a well-formed backside?`
`00:33.28`	`Spellbinder`	`the sound chip bleeter`
`00:33.30`	`Tuller`	`I have no idea`
`00:33.36`	`Spellbinder`	`and on C64`
`00:33.47`	`Spellbinder`	`nothing beats Sandra`
`00:34.25`	`bleeter`	`I was listening to the 'Introduction to Fairlight CMI' cassette the other day... now there's a rather astonishing bit of recording`
`00:34.49`	`Spellbinder`	`omg Fairlight`
`00:34.52`	`Spellbinder`	`classic'`
`00:34.55`	`bleeter`	`everything sounds like it's coming out of a Sandra with a bunch of ProTools foo in the background, but the listener knows this is all pre-that shizz`
`00:35.10`	`bleeter`	`it was the tape used to sell the machine to stevie wonder, john zorn etc. etc.`
`00:35.14`	`Spellbinder`	`:)`
`00:35.25`	`bleeter`	`if you can ever find it, well worth the listen ;)`
`00:35.59`	`Spellbinder`	`i even did a demo once`
`00:36.18`	`Spellbinder`	`with a premade app and stuff but still`
`00:36.30`	`Spellbinder`	`85 or sum`
`00:36.43`	`Spellbinder`	`BBS times`
`00:37.10`	`bleeter`	`heh at the recent Linux conference in Australia, a bunch of us spent a good hour or two trying to remember the names and operators of the big aussie BBS's`
`00:37.15`	`Spellbinder`	`lol we hacked into CIA`
`00:37.17`	`Tuller`	`perhaps before I was alive, goodjob`
`00:37.18`	`bleeter`	`could only come up with about 3 of them =))`
`00:37.35`	`Spellbinder`	`:)`
`00:38.15`	`Spellbinder`	`good times in the 80's`
`00:39.29`	`WobWork`	`hm`
`00:39.38`	`WobWork`	`rather severe changes to mana regen incoming`
`00:39.53`	`WobWork`	`Spellbinder: You're doing the 80s wrong =P`
`00:40.02`	`Spellbinder`	`yeah?`
`00:40.12`	`WobWork`	`http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14910422908&sid=1`
`00:41.18`	`Spellbinder`	`i love the 80's, C64 and Amiga, but i live in the now`
`00:43.51`	`Tekkub`	`ow, my brain`
`00:43.51`	`Tekkub`	`http://havenworks.com/`
`00:44.17`	`Spellbinder`	`about that brain`
`00:44.20`	`mikma`	`http://wow.reaktio.net/pvp :D`
`00:44.35`	`Spellbinder`	`Braindamage is my favorite ever`
`00:46.16`	`*** part/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@c-76-27-160-125.hsd1.va.comcast.net)`
`00:46.41`	`WobWork`	`Tekkub: my god`
`00:46.46`	`WobWork`	`it's like a clown exploded.`
`00:47.25`	`WobWork`	`also Spellbinder, plz fix the grammar on your mp3 spam =)`
`00:47.32`	`mikma`	`oh this i need to see`
`00:47.34`	`Spellbinder`	`oh?`
`00:47.42`	`mikma`	`<0244> >>> Spellbinder listen's to Pink Floyd - 10 Sorrow «Track:1/10»`
`00:47.43`	`WobWork`	`it's "listens"`
`00:47.46`	`WobWork`	`not listen's`
`00:47.50`	`Spellbinder`	`kk`
`00:48.00`	`mikma`	`UAAAA UAAAA UAAAA GRAMMAR POLICE, HALT!`
`00:48.21`	`mikma`	`wobwork: hey poop, i has something to show you ;) ;)`
`00:48.28`	`WobWork`	`I hope it's SFW`
`00:48.46`	`mikma`	`do you... want it to be?`
`00:48.58`	`Spellbinder`	`better?`
`00:49.09`	`Tekkub`	`ah I love poorly written uninstallers...`
`00:49.20`	`mikma`	`spellbinder: no, remove the script completely.`
`00:49.36`	`WobWork`	`Spellbinder: Better =)`
`00:49.38`	`Spellbinder`	`:/`
`00:49.43`	`Spellbinder`	`k`
`00:49.51`	`WobWork`	`mikma: I'm giving him a free pass this time on the spam, cause the music choice is good =)`
`00:49.53`	`Tekkub`	`"I have to reboot so that I can access files that are in use" .. cancel, stop the service it installed, restart unlinstaller`
`00:49.57`	`Tekkub`	`oh look, it works now`
`00:50.22`	`*** join/#wowuidev Anaral (n=Anaral@WoWUIDev/Norganna/QA-Engineer/Anaral)`
`00:50.34`	`mikma`	`wobwork: how can floyd be pink?`
`00:50.35`	`*** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@c-76-27-160-125.hsd1.va.comcast.net)`
`00:50.43`	`Tekkub`	`it's just his eye`
`00:50.45`	`WobWork`	`mikma: how can it not?`
`00:51.02`	`WobWork`	`Perhaps it was just a momentary lapse of reason`
`00:51.34`	`Thunder_Child`	`skin color?`
`00:51.36`	`Spellbinder`	`and i only spam it sometimes`
`00:51.51`	`Spellbinder`	`and pink is the band, not a persone`
`00:51.55`	`mikma`	`wobwork: behold! http://svn.wowinterface.com/filedetails.php?repname=mikma&path=%2FTomTom_FF%2FTomTom_FF.lua`
`00:52.54`	`mikma`	`and now i have a problem! :I CrazyArrow doesn't work in battlegrounds! OMAGOD`
`00:53.42`	`WobWork`	`after all that? =\`
`00:53.52`	`mikma`	`yeah. fail.`
`00:54.12`	`mikma`	`coordinates work, crazyarrow (TomTom) doesn't`
`00:54.59`	`WobWork`	`Get Clad to put in an exception for TTFF`
`00:55.46`	`mikma`	`TomTom_CrazyArrow.lua Row 143, if not dist or IsInInstance() then <- WAH :(`
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`01:13.12`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ`
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`01:16.48`	`*** join/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (i=Dark_Elf@ip59.net195.mw.net)`
`01:20.27`	`Arrowmaster`	`if not dist or IsInInstance() and select(2,IsInInstnace()) ~= "pvp" then`
`01:24.08`	`*** join/#wowuidev Cide (i=EAndre@hus110a.bobbnet.com)`
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`01:29.35`	`*** join/#wowuidev nuoHep (n=nuoHep@89.222.156.36)`
`01:44.33`	`NeoTron`	`I wish tomtom worked with sexymap's HUD :-/`
`02:00.46`	`WobWork`	`what's the term used where strings are stored in memory for quick lookups?`
`02:00.55`	`WobWork`	`(ie in lua)`
`02:03.16`	`Tekkub`	`"storing in memory for quick lookups"?`
`02:03.48`	`WobWork`	`where you pre-define strings`
`02:04.08`	`Tekkub`	`preloading?`
`02:05.03`	`WobWork`	`No, I just remember it being used in stuff like AceComm to reduce memory usage`
`02:05.16`	`Tekkub`	`my pajama panfs are giving me a second asshole`
`02:05.20`	`Tekkub`	`I need new panfs`
`02:05.50`	`Tekkub`	`oh you mean using loadsting to create executable code?`
`02:05.57`	`WobWork`	`no`
`02:06.15`	`ZorbaBeta`	`I think we need an example of this :P`
`02:06.25`	`WobWork`	`It's been a while since I read it =P`
`02:06.37`	`Tekkub`	`I think you just want to apply a name to a commen-sense action :P`
`02:06.50`	`ZorbaBeta`	`all I can think of is "caching"`
`02:07.11`	`Tekkub`	`"What do you call that thing where you make sure there aren't any cars coming before you walk into the street"`
`02:07.15`	`Tekkub`	`:P`
`02:07.55`	`WobWork`	`it's a specific term I'm after`
`02:08.03`	`WobWork`	`yes, it's related to caching`
`02:08.06`	`mikma`	`tekkub: balls`
`02:08.08`	`Tekkub`	`or "what do you call that thing where you turn off the circuit breaker before you rewire a light fixture"`
`02:08.13`	`WobWork`	`but it's a term specific to this action`
`02:08.23`	`Tekkub`	`pre-caching?`
`02:08.31`	`*** join/#wowuidev d87 (n=x@host89-251-107-29.hnet.ru)`
`02:09.01`	`WobWork`	`oh Memoization`
`02:09.22`	`Tekkub`	`what you described didn't sound like memoization`
`02:09.47`	`WobWork`	`Although related to caching, memoization refers to a specific case of this optimization, distinguishing it from forms of caching such as buffering or page replacement.`
`02:09.52`	`Tekkub`	`you don't pre-define with memo, you just save it after you create it`
`02:10.17`	`Tekkub`	`<WobWork> where you pre-define strings <--- this is what threw me off`
`02:10.20`	`WobWork`	`it's a form of precaching the string so it doesn't need to be redefined`
`02:10.34`	`Tekkub`	`yes, redefined`
`02:10.46`	`WobWork`	`yeah, well, my terminology was mixed cause I couldn't recall the precise mechanism`
`02:10.52`	`WobWork`	`Soz =P`
`02:10.55`	`Tekkub`	`:P`
`02:11.04`	`Tekkub`	`memo metatables kick ass`
`02:11.06`	`mikma`	`more balls`
`02:11.19`	`Tekkub`	`tekIDmemo is my fav lil lib`
`02:13.10`	`mikma`	`teklibs hehe`
`02:14.58`	`mikma`	`tekkub: what does tekIDmemo do?`
`02:15.51`	`Tekkub`	`itemlink => itemid, with memoization`
`02:16.07`	`Tekkub`	`it's simple code, and it's oh so handy`
`02:16.58`	`mikma`	`care to throw a link so we can have a look`
`02:17.10`	`*** join/#wowuidev Shirik\|Ecole (n=Shirik@132.253.205.68.cfl.res.rr.com)`
`02:17.11`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik\|Ecole] by ChanServ`
`02:17.55`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`rawr`
`02:19.20`	`Tekkub`	`http://github.com/tekkub/nutcounter/blob/253672d77414737904efd940f15b0624fa194e02/tekIDmemo.lua`
`02:20.20`	`mikma`	`not alot of code =D`
`02:20.44`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`YOU'RE not a lot of code`
`02:21.37`	`mikma`	`thats what she said`
`02:21.52`	`Tekkub`	`so she said "not a lot of cock"`
`02:22.00`	`Tekkub`	`s/so/no,/`
`02:22.25`	`mikma`	`"no, a lot of cock"`
`02:39.38`	`mikma`	`http://kuvaton.com/bshit/wow_players_edtion.jpg`
`02:41.58`	`mikma`	`http://kuvaton.com/bshit/japanese_characters.png`
`02:43.51`	`mikma`	`http://kuvaton.com/bshit/jaj448.gif`
`02:44.40`	`mikma`	`tekkub: http://kuvaton.com/bshit/227035xiktrwi02p.gif`
`02:44.41`	`mikma`	`hehehe`
`02:45.09`	`Tekkub`	`riiight...`
`02:49.57`	`mikma`	`cairenn: one for you too! http://kuvaton.com/bshit/kisu_skannerissa.jpg`
`02:50.12`	`Cairenn`	`lol`
`02:54.00`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`mean :(`
`02:57.44`	`mikma`	`shirik\|ecole: mean? its sitting there`
`02:57.55`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`looks like thrown in water imo`
`02:57.58`	`mikma`	`not like being forced to =D`
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`02:59.47`	`*** join/#wowuidev JerekDain (n=JerekDai@c-66-41-178-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)`
`03:00.07`	`mikma`	`so.. for the first time in .. 6 years i ate 2 oranges last weekend! wooooooo`
`03:00.14`	`mikma`	`great stuff`
`03:00.52`	`*** join/#wowuidev Matrix110\| (i=Matrix11@pD957D9FD.dip.t-dialin.net)`
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`03:13.10`	`*** part/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (i=Dark_Elf@ip59.net195.mw.net)`
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`03:26.31`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`mikma, wtf`
`03:29.38`	`End`	`oranges raped his father and killed his mother`
`03:34.41`	`Zyndrome`	`http://userscripts.org/scripts/review/37216`
`03:34.44`	`Zyndrome`	`that needs a fix asap`
`03:43.37`	`Kaso`	`I can never work out if /b/ is just retarded or masochistic`
`03:43.38`	`Kaso`	`running random scripts people tell them too`
`03:43.45`	`Kaso`	`it seems to happen every week`
`03:45.56`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`what is /b/`
`03:46.38`	`Torhal`	`Shirik\|Ecole: SOmething on 4chan, from what I've gathered.`
`03:46.47`	`End`	`it's the random image thing on 4chan`
`03:46.51`	`End`	`board that is`
`03:46.55`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I think it's good that I've never 4channed`
`03:47.02`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`quite`
`03:47.03`	`End`	`I was curious once`
`03:47.07`	`End`	`now I'm scarred`
`03:47.15`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`4chan is like mos eisley, except worse`
`03:52.43`	`Zyndrome`	`well, currently it's worse than anything else :P`
`03:52.52`	`Zyndrome`	`due to spambot/virus flood`
`03:58.13`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`good place to attack, tbh`
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`04:06.48`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Shirik\|Ecole: write me a C program that'll dim the LEDs on my laptop, please`
`04:06.50`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Go!`
`04:07.02`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`C is evil`
`04:07.30`	`ScytheBlade1`	`Well it can't be a script, as the kernel ignores the suid bit on scripts`
`04:08.17`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`batbot: factorial = function(n) if n == 0 then return 1; else local i = 1; for x = 2, n do i = i * x; end return i; end end`
`04:08.39`	`Adys`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rNgCnY1lPg&feature=channel`
`04:08.59`	`*** join/#wowuidev Tinyboom (n=nahh@108.84-49-166.nextgentel.com)`
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`04:10.17`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`gah`
`04:10.24`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`wtb calculator with nCr functionality`
`04:10.40`	`Adys`	`import calculator.ncr`
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`04:14.08`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`bah, batbot doesn't respond to PMs`
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`04:17.27`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`that question was deceptively evil`
`04:17.33`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`It wasn't hard to solve`
`04:17.36`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`it was hard to check`
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`04:24.27`	`Dewin1`	`For those who care, Blizzard posted part 3 of the upcoming class change highlights.`
`04:24.51`	`Dewin`	`ammo is no longer a consumable, about time`
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`04:34.47`	`Zyndrome`	`my hunter alt cries rivers of tears`
`04:34.52`	`Zyndrome`	`of joy`
`04:35.04`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`!!!`
`04:35.06`	`Zyndrome`	`no more having to stack up infinite + some more ammo :P`
`04:35.09`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`cog\|away is in my stats review guide!`
`04:35.21`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`#4. Planes 'R Us buys 50% of its propellers from Acme, 35% from Binford, and 15% of them from Cogsworth. 10% of the Acme propellers are defective, 20% of the Binford propellers are defective, and 5% of the Cogsworth propellers are defective. A propeller is chosen at random and found to be defective. What is the probability that it is from Binford?`
`04:36.20`	`*** join/#wowuidev PProvost (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost)`
`04:41.25`	`Dewin`	`Zyndrome: I'm more excited about the possibility of having a 4th bag slot again`
`04:41.42`	`Zyndrome`	`"Blessing of Kings this spell is now a base ability trainable by all paladins."`
`04:41.53`	`Zyndrome`	`good, no more having to bitch at our pallys to buff it :P`
`04:42.04`	`Zyndrome`	`"I dont have it" , "FGFGFSFDSHFDS!!!"`
`04:42.27`	`Dewin`	`Shirik: What is the probability of Planes 'R Us having stupid management that insists on buying poorly-made propellers from a place that has a 20% defect rate?`
`04:42.55`	`Iriel`	`They could be really cheap`
`04:43.47`	`Dewin`	`Just what sort of defects are these? I'd rather not be in a plane in the air when the propeller decides to go AWOL.`
`04:46.23`	`*** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (n=MikeNGoS@189.176.146.159)`
`04:46.56`	`*** join/#wowuidev saiek (i=bleh@c-69-245-244-213.hsd1.in.comcast.net)`
`04:48.33`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Dewin :P`
`05:03.33`	`Dewin`	`sorry, my inner smartaleck got out.`
`05:04.29`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kemayo (n=kemayo@pool-71-110-231-238.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)`
`05:06.04`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`This is really sad`
`05:06.11`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I haven't gone to this class in about 2-3 weeks`
`05:06.16`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`and I'm flying through these questions`
`05:06.33`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Probably because this is all the same stuff I did for Auctioneer, lol ><`
`05:06.39`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Who says WoW hurts school grades!`
`05:09.06`	`*** join/#wowuidev WobWork (n=Wobin@203-158-45-155.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`05:11.49`	`Adys`	`Shirik\|Ecole: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/11th_grade.png`
`05:12.42`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`but no seriously`
`05:12.46`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I planned for studying all night`
`05:12.53`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`and I'm pretty much done now`
`05:12.58`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`which means I can go to mcdonalds and take a break imo`
`05:13.09`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`maybe wendy's`
`05:13.12`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`nah, burger king`
`05:13.12`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`yeah`
`05:13.31`	`Adys`	`you sound like an american`
`05:13.33`	`Anaral`	`Hmm, Whopper Jr.`
`05:13.42`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`burger king has these awesome shakes`
`05:13.44`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`so good`
`05:13.47`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`omg`
`05:16.43`	`*** join/#wowuidev Ericpeeg (i=Ericpeeg@69.5.224.180)`
`05:18.32`	`*** join/#wowuidev Wobin_ (n=Wobin@203-158-45-155.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`05:19.31`	`*** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe22fa00-138.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`05:19.40`	`cog\|away`	`Shirik\|Ecole: i found an article about you... http://www.slate.com/id/2202262/pagenum/all/`
`05:21.04`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I can't believe they're analyzing "fail"`
`05:21.19`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`is our news seriously that boring that we need to do this?`
`05:21.21`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`"The highest form of failthe epic failinvolves not just catastrophic failure but hubris as well."`
`05:22.23`	`Tekkub`	`riiiiight...`
`05:22.35`	`Tekkub`	`well we have a new prez, there's nothing to talk about now`
`05:22.39`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`~hubris`
`05:22.39`	`purl`	`HUBRIS: Excessive pride, the sort of thing Zeus zaps you for. Also the quality that makes you write (and maintain) programs that other people won't want to say bad things about. Hence, the third great virtue of a programmer.`
`05:22.42`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`^^`
`05:22.51`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Tekkub: Truth, we no longer have an epic fail president`
`05:23.39`	`Tekkub`	`speaking of fail, I can't open a doublewide frame and the spellbook at the same time`
`05:23.46`	`Tekkub`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:23.59`	`Tekkub`	`char, trade, etc work fine`
`05:43.37`	`*** join/#wowuidev lua_bot (n=lua_bot@li37-84.members.linode.com)`
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`05:54.33`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`How goes the C++, Tem?`
`05:54.37`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`do you love it yet?`
`05:55.58`	`*** join/#wowuidev Esamynn\|Away (n=nchatzil@d64-180-70-86.bchsia.telus.net)`
`05:56.50`	`Iriel`	`Esamynn\|Away: thanks for finally updating gatherer`
`05:57.10`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`don't thank him`
`05:57.24`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Esamynn\|Away should tell you the wonderful stories of him losing his database ^_^`
`05:57.41`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`and he made more work for me to do by updating it because now I have to do code reviews :(`
`05:57.43`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`<3 Esamynn\|Away`
`05:57.55`	`Iriel`	`hm, his name's on the update posts 8-)`
`05:58.09`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`well he did it :)`
`05:58.31`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I'm just giving him crap :P`
`06:03.55`	`ZorbaGama`	`pfft, there is no such thing as a program that other people won't want to say bad things about :P`
`06:05.15`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`well, considering I'm on the auctioneer team :P`
`06:05.22`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I don't think me saying bad things about it can be taken seriously`
`06:06.59`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`shirik, nothing you say can be taken seriously`
`06:07.06`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`:(`
`06:11.04`	`Shiibot`	`New WoW-US Server Alert: February 5, 2009, 10:10PM PST`
`06:11.04`	`Shiibot`	`Free PvP character moves from Cho'gall (Horde only) have been added! These moves are scheduled to end Tuesday, February 10, at 8:00 PM PST provided our transfer goals are not reached prior to this time. You can begin your free move by visiting https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/account and clicking on the "Free Character Move" link.`
`06:11.04`	`Shiibot`	`February 3, 2009, 9:15PM PST`
`06:13.38`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`wtf is with all the free moves lately`
`06:15.15`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`desperate attempts to balance server load?`
`06:15.40`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Is it really that unbalanced? I thought it was pretty much unilaterally full`
`06:16.06`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`~weather kdab`
`06:16.16`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Cairenn ^`
`06:16.49`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`shrug i don't really know. i was just being a smartass :P`
`06:17.54`	`Arrowmaster`	`wtf, cho'gall already had transfers open`
`06:18.55`	`Arrowmaster`	`my friends entire guild and the other top guild on that server both transfered off to scillia`
`06:19.05`	`Arrowmaster`	`and now scillia has transfers open`
`06:19.35`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Arrowmaster: Obviously they haxed`
`06:33.55`	`Tekkub`	`and this is why I'll never get a carpet: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3084/3256844193_d1e85e3d47_o.png`
`06:38.06`	`*** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-242-183-100.mem.bellsouth.net)`
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`06:45.39`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Anyone here good with multivariable calculus?`
`06:45.46`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I took that in high school and kinda forgot it since then :/`
`06:46.17`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Is integral(integral(foo, x),y) equivalent to integral(integral(foo, y),x) ?`
`06:47.23`	`ZorbaGama`	`I am about 99% sure it isn't`
`06:48.02`	`ZorbaGama`	`hmm, actually, I may be incorrect on that`
`06:48.10`	`Tem`	`Shirik\|Ecole, I don't love it yet`
`06:48.11`	`Adys`	`you sound helpful ZorbaGama`
`06:48.13`	`Adys`	`lemme hire you`
`06:48.17`	`Tem`	`and I'm done until the next assignment`
`06:48.22`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Tem: Come on`
`06:48.24`	`Tem`	`which probably won't be long`
`06:48.24`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`how can you not love C++`
`06:48.26`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`it's amazing`
`06:48.36`	`Adys`	`Shirik\|Ecole: dont you love php?`
`06:48.40`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`yes`
`06:48.40`	`ZorbaGama`	`I was thinking derivative, but even then I don't think I was correct, I was creating it incorrectly mentally`
`06:48.45`	`Tem`	`I enjoyed being protected from myself a little bit`
`06:48.56`	`Tem`	`(without taking away too much power)`
`06:48.59`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Tem: You haven't even touched the pointer-to-member operator`
`06:49.05`	`Tem`	`yes I have`
`06:49.06`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`->* and .*`
`06:49.09`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`you have?`
`06:49.19`	`Tem`	`yeah`
`06:49.24`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`That's surprising`
`06:49.30`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`most classes ignore it because it's too confusing :P`
`06:49.46`	`Tem`	`this isn't a c++ class`
`06:49.50`	`Tem`	`this is operating systems`
`06:49.59`	`Tem`	`I had c++ in high school`
`06:50.00`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`you're doing operating systems in C++?`
`06:50.04`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`That's equally surprising`
`06:50.11`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`We did operating systems in Java`
`06:50.12`	`Tem`	`it's a sub set of c++`
`06:50.23`	`Tem`	`but still c++`
`06:50.29`	`Tem`	`heh`
`06:50.36`	`Tem`	`my friends at my old school are doing OS in java`
`06:50.39`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Java is a great class to teach an OS course in`
`06:50.42`	`Arrowmaster`	`who the fuck writes an operating system in java`
`06:50.48`	`Tem`	`you don't`
`06:50.49`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Arrowmaster: OS is not about writing an OS`
`06:51.00`	`Tem`	`you play with the concepts of writing an OS in java`
`06:51.09`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`for example, synchronization`
`06:51.11`	`Tem`	`and I was making fun of them today for how much easier their project was than mine`
`06:51.13`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`semaphores, all that fun stuff`
`06:51.25`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`And fact of the matter is that Java has a lot of synchronization primitives native to the language`
`06:51.27`	`Tem`	`We're doing everything on top of NachOS`
`06:51.29`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`And that's what makes it so good to teach that course`
`06:52.06`	`*** join/#wowuidev Diao (i=vschiu@adsl-76-254-53-184.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`06:52.12`	`Tem`	`so, there's a risk clone for iphone`
`06:52.18`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`nice!`
`06:52.27`	`Tem`	`and I've mastered it's easy AI`
`06:52.32`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`its*`
`06:52.36`	`Tem`	`s/'s/s/`
`06:52.51`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`does it have multiple levels?`
`06:52.54`	`Tem`	`no`
`06:53.17`	`Tem`	`of my 4 opponents, only 1 is a real threat`
`06:53.21`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Ok so I have come to the one part in my stats class that I've never done before`
`06:53.23`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`This is so stupid`
`06:53.32`	`Tem`	`Gamma Distribution!`
`06:53.35`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Here's how much harder it is than what I already knew: You use a double integral instead of a single integral`
`06:53.38`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`that's it.`
`06:53.47`	`Adys`	`http://xkcd.com/540/`
`06:53.48`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Why do I have to pay $3000 for this`
`06:53.51`	`Adys`	`this makes no sense`
`06:54.19`	`Adys`	`there's this girl Im sharing root PWs with, yet I haven't yet got to second base with her`
`06:54.27`	`Adys`	`no sense at all`
`06:54.53`	`Adys`	`wonder if theres a bugtrack for this comic`
`06:55.58`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`lua> local b="011000100110000101110011011001010010000000110010"; for byte in b:gmatch("........") do print(string.char(tonumber(byte, 2))) end`
`06:55.58`	`lua_bot`	`Shirik\|Ecole: b, a, s, e, , 2`
`06:56.01`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`rofl!`
`06:56.03`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`That's awesome`
`06:56.30`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`oh randall you are a genius`
`06:56.37`	`Adys`	`you are late shirik`
`06:56.41`	`Adys`	`very late`
`06:56.41`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`:(`
`06:56.47`	`End`	`~failri`
`06:56.49`	`End`	`oops`
`06:56.50`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I don't look at it at 12 like you nazis!`
`06:56.52`	`End`	`~failrik`
`06:56.52`	`purl`	`FAIL, Shirik, FAIL!`
`06:56.54`	`End`	`win!`
`06:57.01`	`Adys`	`http://www.roubaixinteractive.com/PlayGround/Binary_Conversion/Binary_to_Text.asp`
`06:57.04`	`Adys`	`easier`
`06:57.27`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`::(`
`06:57.34`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`My way is more fun`
`06:57.43`	`Adys`	`b:gmatch("........")`
`06:57.46`	`Adys`	`wtf is that for?`
`06:57.53`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`split the string into 8 bits`
`06:57.59`	`Adys`	`oh`
`06:58.28`	`Adys`	`http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2009-02-06-n21.html`
`06:59.14`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Adys: wtf is that`
`06:59.17`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I can't see anything`
`06:59.27`	`Adys`	`its a wormhole`
`06:59.35`	`Adys`	`its the fabric of space and time`
`06:59.42`	`Adys`	`its you, me, and everything around us`
`06:59.45`	`Adys`	`everything, man`
`07:00.34`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I wonder what really happened`
`07:01.06`	`Tekkub`	`does the oracles trinket only trigger if you land the killing blow?`
`07:01.07`	`Adys`	`either its an easter egg, or its the 3d view that bugged out`
`07:01.13`	`Adys`	`Tekkub: yes`
`07:01.22`	`Tekkub`	`or will honorable kill rules (I healed!) work?`
`07:01.31`	`Adys`	`you need the killing blow`
`07:01.33`	`Tekkub`	`that's shitty :P`
`07:01.34`	`Adys`	`for every trinket alike`
`07:12.43`	`*** join/#wowuidev saiek (i=bleh@c-69-245-244-213.hsd1.in.comcast.net)`
`07:14.25`	`Tekkub`	`fecundity...`
`07:14.32`	`Tekkub`	`fish should not know this work`
`07:14.34`	`Tekkub`	`*word`
`07:14.41`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`fish?`
`07:15.25`	`Adys`	`fish!`
`07:15.36`	`Tekkub`	`tazmanian murlocs`
`07:15.42`	`Adys`	`it's time to use my old mac os x theme again`
`07:16.55`	`Adys`	`oh wow`
`07:17.02`	`Adys`	`sourceforce suddenly got good download speeds`
`07:17.06`	`Adys`	`getting 2mbps`
`07:17.19`	`Adys`	`i used to get 60kbps at most`
`07:22.31`	`Fisker-`	`OMG FAIl`
`07:22.40`	`Fisker-`	`It's Binary to Ascii to text`
`07:22.42`	`Fisker-`	`lololol`
`07:22.42`	`Fisker-`	`etc.`
`07:25.12`	`*** join/#wowuidev Jagannath (n=bertarch@adsl-75-11-163-108.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net)`
`07:26.03`	`*** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@wnn72113.wireless.dtu.dk)`
`07:26.36`	`Adys`	`i had hopes for empathy`
`07:26.42`	`Adys`	`but its going to need a lot of work...`
`07:27.06`	`Adys`	`it doesnt even feel like an IM client`
`07:28.27`	`Adys`	`lets test some stuff !`
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`07:31.22`	`*** join/#wowuidev Elkano (n=elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano)`
`07:32.48`	`Dolby`	`hah http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/02/ram-sam-i-am.gif`
`07:34.01`	`*** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@d019105.adsl.hansenet.de)`
`07:43.12`	`*** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys)`
`07:51.04`	`bleeter`	`so I've been itching to ask if anyone's found Slartibartfast's signature anywhere in NR yet.. my mate reckons it'd be in HF... but I'm not too sure. I suspect in the new bit of Un'Goro. May have only been in Alpha tho, 'fjord's aren't equatorial enough' kinda thing. Anyone know?`
`07:52.06`	`bleeter`	`Adys: empathy's still very early. was talking to their devs the other week, they've been concentrating on farsight and other backend magics more than the frontend for the past two years`
`07:52.18`	`Addybot`	`why didnt that ping me?`
`07:52.19`	`bleeter`	`Adys: the bit that made my ears prick up was 'Jabber Voice Broadcast'`
`07:52.21`	`Addybot`	`what the fuck`
`07:52.27`	`bleeter`	`lol`
`07:52.44`	`Adys`	`which language is empathy written in?`
`07:52.47`	`bleeter`	`got me thinking 'jabber voice broadcast hmm open source 'vent' finally'`
`07:52.52`	`bleeter`	`prolly C or C++`
`07:53.05`	`bleeter`	`the magic is all farsight-telepathy though ;)`
`07:53.14`	`Adys`	`ive read about it yeah`
`07:53.19`	`bleeter`	`farsight is serious magicks`
`07:53.21`	`Adys`	`it looks promising`
`07:53.28`	`Adys`	`and pulls truckloads of packages wtf`
`07:53.36`	`bleeter`	`also, CELT codec sounds and looks fecking sweet`
`07:53.53`	`bleeter`	`non-patented open source speech codec, ~8ms response, created by three guys one of which is the Speex creator`
`07:53.59`	`bleeter`	`so should know his stuffs`
`07:54.01`	`Adys`	`bleeter: do you have any idea how to add a plugin to gimp and/or eye of gnome for read/write of blp files?`
`07:54.08`	`Adys`	`Ive been working on one in python`
`07:54.17`	`bleeter`	`CELT not related to Farsight etc., just observed both at same conference and got my imagination going`
`07:54.21`	`bleeter`	`nope`
`07:54.35`	`bleeter`	`it's something I've 'wanted' for ages and 'not beleived' that no one else has done`
`07:54.48`	`bleeter`	`and one of the many 'low priorioty;' things for myself to do ;)`
`07:54.56`	`bleeter`	`'cept spelt correctly ;)`
`07:55.23`	`Adys`	`i found some blp=>tga converter written in python`
`07:55.25`	`Adys`	`its a nice codebase`
`07:55.29`	`Adys`	`except it doesnt work but meh`
`07:56.05`	`Adys`	`wow this is mildly annoying me, why the fuck is it connecting to freenode befo.. oh i know`
`07:56.10`	`Tekkub`	`It's nice, except the fact that it doesn't work....`
`07:56.15`	`Adys`	`yeah`
`07:56.21`	`bleeter`	`the really neat example of Farsight at the conference, was this IM convo the presenter was having, and he then 'pciked up' the video stream in Pitivi and started recording inside the app`
`07:56.24`	`Adys`	`some images are reversed`
`07:56.30`	`Adys`	`some are not working at all`
`07:56.50`	`bleeter`	`the backend gstreamer sinks etc. providing the sources for both the IM and the video recorder.. very sweet`
`07:58.03`	`Adys`	`know what stinks?`
`07:58.04`	`Adys`	`eog`
`07:58.08`	`Adys`	`wonderful app`
`07:58.12`	`Adys`	`but it fucking stinks`
`07:58.34`	`bleeter`	`hah aye`
`07:58.35`	`Adys`	`i have an ico file with a .png extension`
`07:58.38`	`Adys`	`IT CANT READ IT`
`07:58.43`	`Adys`	`the fucking mime type is ico`
`07:59.10`	`foxlit`	`your mom reads mime types.`
`07:59.17`	`Adys`	`dont you start`
`07:59.43`	`Adys`	`(last edited 2008-08-28 00:10:53 by MrAdams)`
`07:59.46`	`foxlit`	`Hah, revenge for last time, clearly :P`
`08:01.29`	`*** join/#wowuidev Aquavette2k1 (n=Vette@74-137-180-250.dhcp.insightbb.com)`
`08:01.52`	`Aquavette`	`god i'm never gonna hive that damn quote down`
`08:02.06`	`bleeter`	`nice, Blizz are now deleting my posts about their crappy authenticators :/`
`08:02.59`	`*** join/#wowuidev selckin (n=selckin@unaffiliated/axxo)`
`08:03.30`	`bleeter`	`so I guess all that's left is complain to various consumer bodies, and try to force them to correct their misleading and false advertising`
`08:04.22`	`Aquavette`	`what that they are just a cheap knock off of RSA secure id tokens?`
`08:04.41`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I just ordered a new debit card`
`08:04.42`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`get this`
`08:04.47`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`the card has a securid token on it`
`08:04.51`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`_on_ it`
`08:04.55`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`how they got it that small, I don't know`
`08:05.09`	`Iriel`	`Shirik: Miniature elves`
`08:05.17`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`lol`
`08:05.20`	`bleeter`	`Aquavette: no. they are not 'leading standard' because they are 'not secure' because they are NOT 'one time passwords' (all quotes there are Blizzard advertising)`
`08:05.56`	`bleeter`	`Iriel: same minature elves with the paintbrushes behind the screen that do the pixels?`
`08:06.03`	`Aquavette`	`what they don't generate an id that you have to enter on login>`
`08:06.04`	`Aquavette`	`?`
`08:06.16`	`foxlit`	`I wonder how 'not secure' sneaked into blizzard advertising :)`
`08:06.29`	`bleeter`	`foxlit: nice catch... * not 'secure'`
`08:06.30`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`foxlit :P`
`08:06.54`	`foxlit`	`The issue is obviously that the servers accept the same generated number within some small window`
`08:06.57`	`Iriel`	`bleeter: of course not, those are pixies`
`08:07.10`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`oh so that's why they call them pixels!`
`08:07.23`	`Iriel`	`Exactly!`
`08:07.35`	`bleeter`	`obvious reason is obvious, once explained!`
`08:07.54`	`Aquavette`	`RSA generates a new key every X minutes depending on your setup`
`08:08.00`	`foxlit`	`Nah, it was obvious from the day you said you found an issue :)`
`08:08.08`	`foxlit`	`There's only one class of issue that you could've found :0`
`08:08.13`	`foxlit`	`s/0/)/`
`08:08.25`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`not necessarily true :)`
`08:08.32`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`the algorithm could be whack`
`08:08.46`	`Aquavette`	`yea, the algorithim they use could be shit`
`08:08.51`	`foxlit`	`I'm a stochastic agent, Shirik.`
`08:08.52`	`Aquavette`	`it probably is`
`08:08.59`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I don't think it is`
`08:09.08`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Though I do want to do a statistical analysis of it at some point`
`08:09.11`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I just don't have the time right now`
`08:09.18`	`bleeter`	`whose algo?`
`08:09.28`	`Aquavette`	`the blizzard authenticator`
`08:09.29`	`Iriel`	`theres little point for them to build a crap algorithm into hardware when there are non-crap ones available`
`08:09.32`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Blizzard's; right now this is just "what if"`
`08:09.38`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I agree with Iriel on this one`
`08:09.46`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I only said what I did to play devil's advocate against foxlit`
`08:10.10`	`Aquavette`	`Yea, Iriel is probably right, because there are so many of them out there, i was just commenting about the general blizzard.... crap`
`08:10.13`	`foxlit`	`(I'm only really suggesting that there's only one class of issues that's easy to find here)`
`08:10.13`	`bleeter`	`it could be the best algo ever, from now until eternity... it's still implemented in an incredibly shockingly bad way`
`08:10.26`	`bleeter`	`if we're talking the algo from go to woe, which somehow I think we're not`
`08:10.27`	`ZorbaGama`	`bleeter, what's the problem with it?`
`08:10.30`	`Iriel`	`Maybe I missed this, why is it so bad?`
`08:10.44`	`foxlit`	`Iriel: Keylog the sequence.`
`08:10.47`	`foxlit`	`Login within 60 seconds.`
`08:10.50`	`foxlit`	`Profit`
`08:11.01`	`bleeter`	`though they did attempt a 'fix' at one stage`
`08:11.07`	`ZorbaGama`	`fox, and you get booted off the server and log back in immediately? I don't think that's really the common case`
`08:11.18`	`ZorbaGama`	`they don't have to be perfect, only "a lot better", and they are`
`08:11.18`	`Arrowmaster`	`wait they dont expire the key when its used?`
`08:11.26`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`ZorbaGama: If you kept getting kicked out, would you eventually give up?`
`08:11.27`	`bleeter`	`in the first 6 months, you could log into game/account admin using same uname/pw/authkey`
`08:11.29`	`ZorbaGama`	`hell, they might expire it once it's used, too :)`
`08:11.30`	`foxlit`	`ZorbaGama: Do I really have to spell out the evil plan?`
`08:11.32`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Or would you spend the next 3 hours trying to log in?`
`08:11.35`	`Iriel`	`If you've narrowed the vulnerability window from "months" to "one minute", isn't that pretty win?`
`08:11.36`	`bleeter`	`so I bitched about this, and they 'fixed' it`
`08:11.49`	`ZorbaGama`	`shirik, if I kept ending up in a different place, I'd probably figure it out pretty quickly and petition :P`
`08:11.50`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Iriel: You think people change their password every few months?`
`08:11.51`	`bleeter`	`so now if you log ionto the game with an auth key, and then try account admin with same key, it'll bitch`
`08:11.58`	`bleeter`	`but web then game will work fine`
`08:11.59`	`Iriel`	`Shirik\|Ecole: I was being generous`
`08:12.01`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`:P`
`08:12.03`	`foxlit`	`Root your system, block your access to wow login severs; intercept login. You can't relog.`
`08:12.06`	`bleeter`	`so will multiple accounts with same authenticator`
`08:12.12`	`bleeter`	`the generated number is NOT one time`
`08:12.18`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`ZorbaGama: What if you can't log in any more?`
`08:12.19`	`ZorbaGama`	`foxlit, how exactly would you like blizzard to solve that?`
`08:12.31`	`Iriel`	`If someone's compromised your machine in real time...`
`08:12.33`	`bleeter`	`as a 'side' effect, it's possible to remove the authenticator from an account which is operated by someone who's keyloggedc`
`08:12.34`	`foxlit`	`ZorbaGama: they can't, really.`
`08:12.35`	`Iriel`	`then there's NO good solution`
`08:12.38`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`foxlit is doing it the hard way`
`08:12.41`	`ZorbaGama`	`foxlit, you type in username and password, type authentication number, they block it before you log in`
`08:12.43`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`All you have to do is log into account management`
`08:12.45`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Come on`
`08:12.51`	`bleeter`	`given the authenticator is promted as protection against nasty keylog foo, it's compeltely pointless`
`08:13.02`	`Iriel`	`Most keyloggers are STORED`
`08:13.07`	`ZorbaGama`	`however, in reality, that's far too complicated and it just doesn't matter. as I said, it doesn't have to be perfect.`
`08:13.09`	`ZorbaGama`	`just good enough.`
`08:13.14`	`Iriel`	`I dont think they're instantaneous`
`08:13.18`	`Iriel`	`that'd be impractical`
`08:13.23`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`ZorbaGama: I do kinda disagree with that statement`
`08:13.33`	`ZorbaGama`	`and I don't believe that anyone is bothering with that kind of real-time hack at the moment.`
`08:13.36`	`Iriel`	`But again, it can't be perfect`
`08:13.37`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`That being said, I use an authenticator and still believe it increases my security`
`08:13.41`	`bleeter`	`ideally, the person's keylogged before the authenticator is applied`
`08:13.57`	`bleeter`	`because that way you also get the serial # of the authenticator and the target's *really screwed`
`08:14.01`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`However, the fact that it's "good enough" is never a reason to not do something more if it's easily possible`
`08:14.14`	`ZorbaGama`	`bleeter, there's nothing saying that the serial gives any useful info to a third party`
`08:14.21`	`Aquavette`	`i've never used an authenticator and i've never been jacked`
`08:14.31`	`ZorbaGama`	`it might be just that - a serial number`
`08:14.35`	`bleeter`	`ZorbaGama: um... it's a form of identification to account admin`
`08:14.40`	`Aquavette`	`but then again, i'm also not an idiot, and am smart enough not to get a kiey logger`
`08:14.43`	`foxlit`	`Iriel: it's not so much "impractical" that's a defense here; you can easily hook some webserver up to do what shirik suggested in a similar time window`
`08:14.53`	`ZorbaGama`	`shirik, sure, but how would you dodge that particular attack?`
`08:15.02`	`foxlit`	`It's more that the Evil Inc. doesn't have to do it -- yet.`
`08:15.02`	`Tekkub`	`I doubt they would take the serial as "identification"`
`08:15.03`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`ZorbaGama: The same way my mom's securid token works`
`08:15.10`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`and my bank`
`08:15.10`	`End`	`the account server have all the keys though. the serial just has to be a random mapping`
`08:15.21`	`Tekkub`	`if you're calling to remove it, you don't have the auth token anymore and won't know it's serial`
`08:15.22`	`ZorbaGama`	`shirik, which is?`
`08:15.25`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`As soon as a key is used, it's invalidated`
`08:15.27`	`Tekkub`	`if you have it, you don't have to call`
`08:15.32`	`Iriel`	`How does what shirik said get around SSL?`
`08:15.33`	`bleeter`	`Tekkub: part thereof, eg if it is broken. name, address, DOB, secret answer, serial #`
`08:15.34`	`ZorbaGama`	`yeah, that's my point`
`08:15.34`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`if you need to log in again, you have to wait for the next in the sequence`
`08:15.38`	`ZorbaGama`	`they don't have to allow the key to ever be used`
`08:15.51`	`ZorbaGama`	`the trojan chops off your internet right after you've typed the response, before you hit enter`
`08:15.53`	`ZorbaGama`	`bam, key not used`
`08:15.57`	`Aquavette`	`Shirik thats the way it should be used`
`08:16.07`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`ZorbaGama: You have completely missed the second half of what I said`
`08:16.16`	`Iriel`	`ZorbaGama: Thats exactly what I was thinking`
`08:16.22`	`ZorbaGama`	`if you're assuming they have a trojan capable of cutting off internet after the person has logged in, there's no reason to assume it can't cut off internet before`
`08:16.24`	`*** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go_ (n=MikeNGoS@189.176.146.159)`
`08:16.24`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`There's nothing Blizzard can do about that. However, Blizzard CAN invalidate the key as soon as it is used`
`08:16.28`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`No I'm assuming nothing`
`08:16.29`	`Iriel`	`the 'single use' is no defense if you're THAT compromised`
`08:16.34`	`ZorbaGama`	`shirik, no, you're missing my point entirely. they don't use it`
`08:16.36`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`You're ignoring what I said`
`08:16.39`	`ZorbaGama`	`user types in username/password, sends to blizzard`
`08:16.45`	`ZorbaGama`	`blizzard says "o hai authenticator"`
`08:16.47`	`bleeter`	`no matter which way you look at it, it's not nice`
`08:16.50`	`ZorbaGama`	`user types in authenticator response`
`08:16.55`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Seriously, ZorbaGama`
`08:16.57`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Can you read?`
`08:17.01`	`ZorbaGama`	`trojan leaps in before the data is transferred, snags data, transfers data, cuts off internet access`
`08:17.04`	`bleeter`	`it's certainly not how it's advertised or promoted`
`08:17.15`	`ZorbaGama`	`response is never transmitted to blizzard, thus blizzard does not invalidate key`
`08:17.23`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`(03:13:59) (@Shirik\|Ecole) However, the fact that it's "good enough" is never a reason to not do something more IF IT'S EASILY POSSIBLE`
`08:17.26`	`Iriel`	`I think you're applying an unreasonable standard`
`08:17.26`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`IF IT'S EASILY POSSIBLE`
`08:17.32`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`^ There, do you see it now?`
`08:17.43`	`Tekkub`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:17.54`	`End`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:17.55`	`ZorbaGama`	`personally, I'd actually leave it this way, with flags to mark accounts`
`08:17.58`	`Iriel`	`How is single use invalidation known to be easily possible?`
`08:18.02`	`ZorbaGama`	`makes it easier to track people who think they're bypassing the security :P`
`08:18.11`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Iriel: Why wouldn't it be?`
`08:18.12`	`Iriel`	`there may be dozens of authentication servers scattered across several data centers`
`08:18.19`	`bleeter`	`i just have an issue with the way it's promoted. gives people false sense of security. kinda like forcing IE to launch from links from the Launcher ouch`
`08:18.27`	`Iriel`	`it may be infeasible to keep them in sync when the exposure window is in the order of a minute`
`08:18.29`	`ZorbaGama`	`iriel, it should be easy enough to synchronize this, though, if their design isn't braindead`
`08:18.39`	`Tekkub`	`false security?`
`08:18.48`	`ZorbaGama`	`you just shard it based on user ID, so each auth server handles a known set of users`
`08:19.02`	`Iriel`	`How do you know? Do you know how many requests per second they handle? concurrently? what kind of CPU load they have, what kind of connectivity there is?`
`08:19.21`	`ZorbaGama`	`I know because I've worked on far higher-load distributed systems, and we used similar techniques :P`
`08:19.22`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Iriel does raise a valid point`
`08:19.55`	`Tekkub`	`I think we need a new topic`
`08:20.02`	`ZorbaGama`	`the only tricky bit would be if a server melts down - I don't know how much redundancy they have or care about. if they have between 1x and 2x redundancy, just sharding it via user id isn't trivial.`
`08:20.06`	`End`	`Which is better? /drama or /drumroll`
`08:20.08`	`End`	`Discuss.`
`08:20.10`	`Tekkub`	`I'm getting what appears to be a wart on my thumb and it hurts`
`08:20.26`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Tekkub: Does it cause you to slow down?`
`08:20.29`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`If so you can just shapeshift`
`08:20.30`	`End`	`why, aren't you a warty one.`
`08:20.42`	`Tekkub`	`if I could shapeshift....`
`08:20.51`	`Tekkub`	`man I don't even know how to end that sentence`
`08:22.01`	`Arrowmaster`	`and we dont want you to`
`08:22.04`	`End`	`^`
`08:22.15`	`Tem`	`^^`
`08:22.19`	`*** join/#wowuidev brykrys (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Brykrys)`
`08:22.23`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`^^^`
`08:22.27`	`End`	`^^^^`
`08:22.31`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`no`
`08:22.33`	`Tekkub`	`^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^`
`08:22.34`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`you're not allowed to do that`
`08:22.35`	`End`	`Shirik's name is too long`
`08:22.37`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`you already ^ed`
`08:22.39`	`Tekkub`	`shit I did it wrong`
`08:22.49`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`End: This name is specifically chosen to be the maximum length`
`08:22.57`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`In particular, it is because Shirik\|School was too long`
`08:22.57`	`Tekkub`	`baron mount? /meh`
`08:23.08`	`Aquavette`	`god i've farmed that thing forever....`
`08:23.24`	`foxlit`	`\|Scool is clearly an acceptable substitute`
`08:23.28`	`Arrowmaster`	`Shirik\|Ecole: thats not max length`
`08:23.29`	`Tem\|afk`	`I know 2 people who got it on their first kills`
`08:23.39`	`Tem\|afk`	`I've seen TWO baron rivendare's runeblade`
`08:23.41`	`Aquavette`	`i know 3 people who got it on 1 or 2`
`08:23.41`	`Shirik\|School`	`foo!`
`08:23.42`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`hrm`
`08:23.45`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`maybe it changed?`
`08:23.50`	`Arrowmaster`	`no`
`08:23.53`	`Tem\|afk`	`but no goddamn mount`
`08:24.03`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Maybe I spelled it wrong two years ago`
`08:24.06`	`Aquavette`	`i'm on kill 220 since the 3.0 patch`
`08:24.19`	`End`	`I've only tried 8 or so times since 3.0 personally`
`08:24.21`	`Arrowmaster`	`nicklen is 16 on freenode`
`08:24.30`	`Tem\|afk`	`Aquavette, I'm glad to know I'm not alone in my amazing unluckyness`
`08:24.31`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`hm`
`08:24.35`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`you sure it's never changed?`
`08:24.42`	`bleeter`	`didn't baron's % get nerfed to hell and back something like 10 times already?`
`08:24.43`	`End`	`<-- slacker`
`08:24.49`	`End`	`it's a 1% drop rate now`
`08:24.50`	`bleeter`	`gnight tem! :P`
`08:24.58`	`Tem\|afk`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:24.58`	`Aquavette`	`Tem\|afk: I run 10 times per day and no luck`
`08:25.01`	`Aquavette`	`good night`
`08:25.13`	`Tem\|afk`	`I only have the patience to go until I hit the instance cap`
`08:25.26`	`Aquavette`	`i intentional take enough time`
`08:25.28`	`Aquavette`	`so i never hit it`
`08:26.00`	`Aquavette`	`my sanity disappears around 10 though'`
`08:26.01`	`foxlit`	`lua> 1-(0.99)^100;`
`08:26.01`	`lua_bot`	`foxlit: 0.63396765872677`
`08:26.06`	`foxlit`	`lua> 1-(0.99)^200;`
`08:26.06`	`lua_bot`	`foxlit: 0.86602032514204`
`08:26.11`	`Aquavette`	`actions its`
`08:26.23`	`Aquavette`	`actually its different`
`08:26.41`	`Aquavette`	`where do you get the 1 - ?`
`08:26.53`	`End`	`because you calculate your chance not to get it`
`08:26.54`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`because it's actually 1 - (1 - 0.01) ^ n`
`08:26.57`	`End`	`or something like that`
`08:27.07`	`End`	`I forget how it works exactly now`
`08:27.11`	`End`	`it's too late to think`
`08:27.12`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`that's correct`
`08:27.30`	`*** join/#wowuidev Slakah (n=Slakah@5ac6bd5c.bb.sky.com)`
`08:27.30`	`Aquavette`	`i thought it was (.99 ^ N) where N is the number of runs.... and thats your chance to NOT get the mount`
`08:27.34`	`foxlit`	`P(at least one mount drops in N runs) = 1 - P(no mounts drop in N runs) = 1 - P(no mount drops in 1 run)^N`
`08:27.35`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`correct`
`08:27.40`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`so 1 - chance not to get = your chance to get`
`08:27.55`	`End`	`anyhow, the inverse is always that 63% number, for some statistically relevant reason`
`08:27.58`	`Aquavette`	`ah we were doing the same math`
`08:28.12`	`Aquavette`	`ghb == narcolepy meds == bad`
`08:28.19`	`foxlit`	`= 1 - (1 - P(mount drop rate))^N`
`08:28.21`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`End: You might be thinking of 67%`
`08:28.34`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`And that's just a coincidence :P`
`08:28.45`	`End`	`it's always that number!`
`08:28.54`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`what is?`
`08:29.15`	`End`	`for 1/x drop chance, after x runs, it'll be 63%ish chance`
`08:29.32`	`Aquavette`	`i've got a spread sheet where i did the math`
`08:29.35`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`... huh?`
`08:29.36`	`End`	`well, actually, afrer is the wrong word`
`08:29.37`	`Aquavette`	`and all that jazz`
`08:30.00`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`lua> 1 - .5 ^2`
`08:30.00`	`lua_bot`	`Shirik\|Ecole: 0.75`
`08:30.05`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I think your math is wrong :)`
`08:30.10`	`End`	`actually, hm`
`08:30.12`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I applied x = 2 to your formula`
`08:30.15`	`End`	`its not exactly the same number`
`08:30.16`	`End`	`yeah`
`08:30.19`	`End`	`it's just -really- close`
`08:30.22`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`67% is actually statistically meaningful`
`08:30.25`	`End`	`I blame rounding!`
`08:30.26`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`But is a coincidence here :)`
`08:30.46`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`67% is the probability that a normally distributed random variable will be within 1 standard deviation of the mean`
`08:30.56`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`(approximately)`
`08:31.18`	`foxlit`	`lua> md, mp, mx = -math.huge, 0; for x=2,10000 do p = 1-(1-1/x)^x; d = math.abs(0.63-p); if d > md then md, mp, mx = d, p, x; end end print(mx, mp);`
`08:31.18`	`lua_bot`	`foxlit: 2, 0.75`
`08:31.31`	`End`	`I think x approaches a number though`
`08:31.38`	`End`	`er not x`
`08:31.52`	`End`	`I mean, x approaches infinity, you reach a particular number`
`08:31.53`	`Iriel`	`If there's a 1% chance to get the mount, then the probability you will get converges on 1.0`
`08:31.55`	`Iriel`	`It HAS to`
`08:32.02`	`foxlit`	`End: teehee`
`08:32.07`	`foxlit`	`1/x = 1/inf = 0`
`08:32.08`	`Aquavette`	`lua> 100 - (100 * (10 ^ 195)))`
`08:32.08`	`lua_bot`	`Aquavette: luabot:1: unexpected symbol near '100'`
`08:32.15`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`it's 0 * infinity`
`08:32.16`	`foxlit`	`(1-0)^x = 1 ==> 0`
`08:32.21`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Which means it's a calculus problem`
`08:32.23`	`End`	`Iriel: yeah, I'm babbling about changing the drop chance though`
`08:32.30`	`Aquavette`	`wait, why didn't lua do that math?`
`08:32.32`	`End`	`I'm being silly now >_>`
`08:32.40`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`foxlit: Invalid to say that, x approaches infinity`
`08:33.03`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`If you take the power limit before the 1/x limit, you get a different result`
`08:33.11`	`Aquavette`	`100 - (100 * (10 ^ n))) = Percent to get the mount`
`08:33.15`	`foxlit`	`I stick to my blatantly wrong interpretation :)`
`08:33.17`	`Aquavette`	`thats the equation i came up with`
`08:33.29`	`Addybot`	`hey, anyone using mac os x?`
`08:33.34`	`Iriel`	`I am`
`08:33.37`	`Aquavette`	`I am`
`08:33.38`	`End`	`I'll stick to noticing near-coincidences and spouting them as fact!`
`08:33.44`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`End :P`
`08:33.52`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`There should, however, be a solution to that problem`
`08:33.54`	`End`	`it's what I'm good at`
`08:33.56`	`Adys`	`could one of you send me a screenshot of the filemanager in any populated folder?`
`08:34.12`	`Adys`	`in its "default" view, icon sorting if poss`
`08:34.14`	`Adys`	`(with the UI)`
`08:34.28`	`Iriel`	`Thottbot thinks it's 0.2%`
`08:34.40`	`Aquavette`	`thats because they do the math on the number of runs`
`08:34.47`	`foxlit`	`Thottbot thinks: statistically improbable phrase :)`
`08:34.47`	`Aquavette`	`]versus the reported drop`
`08:34.47`	`End`	`for which? are we still talking about the baron mount?`
`08:34.56`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`no`
`08:35.02`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`oh wait, what are you asking about`
`08:35.14`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I'm asking about the lim x->inf [1-(1-1/x)^x]`
`08:35.16`	`End`	`what Iriel said`
`08:35.26`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I'll work on that tomorrow`
`08:35.48`	`Iriel`	`Yes, I was talking about the baron mount`
`08:35.53`	`End`	`well, it's good to see Shirik knew what I was babbling about`
`08:36.00`	`End`	`although completely irrelevant :D`
`08:36.04`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`:P`
`08:36.08`	`Adys`	`Aquavette: also, if you could.. a screenshot of some tabbed UI`
`08:36.17`	`Adys`	`any of them`
`08:36.23`	`Adys`	`maybe safari`
`08:36.26`	`Aquavette`	`i don' thave wow on my macbook`
`08:36.26`	`Iriel`	`And at 0.2%, you'd need to do about 340 runs to get to a 50% probability of getting it`
`08:36.32`	`End`	`anyhow, a CM said 1% I think`
`08:36.38`	`Adys`	`yes the baron mount is 1%`
`08:36.44`	`Adys`	`buffed in 3.0.2`
`08:36.49`	`Aquavette`	`everything i've ready says 1% on the mount`
`08:36.50`	`Adys`	`3.0.1 actually but meh`
`08:37.00`	`End`	`like the guy getting it on beta?`
`08:37.08`	`End`	`:D`
`08:37.14`	`Iriel`	`If it's 1% then the probability says 50% after 70 runs`
`08:37.17`	`foxlit`	`limit(1-(1-1/x)^x, x=infinity);`
`08:37.17`	`foxlit`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:37.35`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`lua> 1 - math.exp(-1)`
`08:37.35`	`lua_bot`	`Shirik\|Ecole: 0.63212055882856`
`08:37.42`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`interesting :P`
`08:38.00`	`Adys`	`actually forget what i said about the finder`
`08:38.05`	`Adys`	`apple got some nice screenshots`
`08:38.12`	`Adys`	`but i still am looking for a tabbed UI under mac os x`
`08:38.30`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`now how did you solve that foxlit?`
`08:38.44`	`foxlit`	`I can has calculator!`
`08:38.45`	`Aquavette`	`hey how do you type this to get lua bot solve it: 100 - (100 * (10 ^ 188)))`
`08:38.46`	`Kalroth`	`Adys: hi!`
`08:38.51`	`Adys`	`Kalroth: i love you`
`08:39.12`	`Kalroth`	`<3`
`08:39.35`	`Kalroth`	`lua> 100 - (100 * (10 ^ 188)))`
`08:39.35`	`lua_bot`	`Kalroth: luabot:1: unexpected symbol near '100'`
`08:39.40`	`Kalroth`	`aw`
`08:39.43`	`foxlit`	`Aquavette: ~ - 10^190`
`08:39.53`	`Kalroth`	`100-(100*(10^188))) = -1.0E+019`
`08:39.58`	`Kalroth`	`is what I get :p`
`08:40.09`	`Adys`	`http://z.about.com/d/browsers/1/0/O/-/-/-/safaritabs8.jpg`
`08:40.10`	`Adys`	`here it is`
`08:40.16`	`Adys`	`took me 15 mins to find that`
`08:40.39`	`Adys`	`oh ffs its brushed not graphite`
`08:40.42`	`foxlit`	`Kalroth: that seems odd.`
`08:40.44`	`Tekkub`	`http://gist.github.com/59287`
`08:40.48`	`Tekkub`	`WOO I WIN!`
`08:40.50`	`Adys`	`http://www.ardisson.org/smokey/moz/sfri1051.png THERE`
`08:40.56`	`Tekkub`	`that's fucking bugged me for months`
`08:41.07`	`Aquavette`	`85.2`
`08:41.10`	`Aquavette`	`urgh`
`08:41.10`	`Kalroth`	`foxlit: it's the same value, no?`
`08:41.21`	`Aquavette`	`85.2`
`08:41.21`	`Aquavette`	`: 100 - (100 * (10 ^ 188)))`
`08:41.28`	`Aquavette`	`damn i still did it wrong`
`08:41.39`	`foxlit`	`Kalroth: the zero seems to be in the wrong place`
`08:41.51`	`Kalroth`	`Iriel: nn!`
`08:42.01`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`night Iriel`
`08:42.09`	`foxlit`	`I read -1.0E+019 as -1 * 10^19`
`08:42.32`	`Tekkub`	`http://www.explosm.net/comics/1551/`
`08:42.40`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`there is no way that can be right, Aquavette`
`08:42.45`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`You cannot have a probability of 100`
`08:43.05`	`End`	`I have a probability of 1000000%`
`08:43.13`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`/kick End`
`08:43.14`	`End`	`beat that`
`08:43.19`	`End`	`ow`
`08:43.20`	`End`	`my shins`
`08:43.22`	`foxlit`	`You're clearly invalid and cannot exist.`
`08:43.27`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`^^`
`08:43.48`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`End is statistically insignificant`
`08:44.22`	`End`	`no, I'm statistically out of bounds.`
`08:45.08`	`Arrowmaster`	`http://kotaku.com/5147805/college-males-play-violent-video-games-look-at-online-porn`
`08:45.17`	`Arrowmaster`	`'They should title this study "Females Being Dishonest About their Interwebs Use". '`
`08:45.21`	`*** join/#wowuidev pb_ee1 (n=nospam@meilleu015869-2.clients.easynet.fr)`
`08:45.30`	`Arrowmaster`	`lol`
`08:46.54`	`Aquavette`	`Shirik\|Ecole, thats converting it too percents`
`08:47.02`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`yeah, you can't do that`
`08:47.14`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Let's put it this way`
`08:47.28`	`Fisker-`	`Actually you forgot about polands`
`08:47.31`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Probability that event A occurs is 100%, probability that event B occurs is 100%`
`08:47.33`	`Fisker-`	`poland*`
`08:47.37`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`What is the chance of P(A and B)`
`08:47.50`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`P(A)P(B) assuming they're independent events`
`08:47.58`	`Fisker-`	`100*The amount of times you forgot about poland`
`08:47.59`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`now, which is correct? 100 * 100 or 1 * 1 * 100%?`
`08:48.17`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`don't convert until "percents" until the end. Or better yet, stop thinking in percentages.`
`08:48.19`	`Fisker-`	`Blood Gorged now grants armor penetration instead of expertise.`
`08:48.20`	`Fisker-`	`HAH!`
`08:48.25`	`Aquavette`	`85.2`
`08:48.27`	`Aquavette`	`urgh`
`08:49.01`	`Aquavette`	`i did the math the hard way doing inverse of logs`
`08:49.15`	`Aquavette`	`just ignore me, I know what your saying`
`08:49.15`	`foxlit`	`So, what, exactly = 85.2?`
`08:49.31`	`Aquavette`	`wrong window....`
`08:49.55`	`Aquavette`	`i'm on 3 irc networks`
`08:50.09`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Obviously you should just be here`
`08:50.11`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`we're the best`
`08:50.18`	`End`	`no, Fisker- is the worst`
`08:50.58`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`ok, I have a test in 5 hours`
`08:51.00`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`so I go to sleep now`
`08:51.02`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`byebye`
`08:51.07`	`End`	`lies`
`08:52.58`	`Fisker-`	`i'm going to drive 130 km/h down a road`
`08:53.10`	`Fisker-`	`be afraid if you live in the nation of Denmark`
`08:57.34`	`*** join/#wowuidev Tifi (n=Tifi@dslb-088-074-018-152.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`09:03.49`	`*** join/#wowuidev mikeando (n=mikeando@115-166-32-146.ip.adam.com.au)`
`09:12.37`	`*** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@wnn72113.wireless.dtu.dk)`
`09:24.32`	`*** join/#wowuidev leethal (n=leethal@2.80-203-21.nextgentel.com)`
`09:27.59`	`zenzio`	`Fisker-: if you find yourself living in the nation of Denmark in the first place, you should be afraid`
`09:31.01`	`*** part/#wowuidev mikeando (n=mikeando@115-166-32-146.ip.adam.com.au)`
`09:31.54`	`zenzio`	`"Consumable ammunition has been removed from the game." o_O`
`09:32.17`	`Kalroth`	`Don't eat the bullets, zenzio`
`09:32.23`	`Kalroth`	`Led is bad for your health`
`09:32.29`	`zenzio`	`but they taste to nice :(`
`09:33.26`	`Tekkub`	`god damnit auditorium`
`09:33.34`	`Tekkub`	`I solved it, RECOGNIZE ME`
`09:38.21`	`*** join/#wowuidev MoonWolf (n=MoonWolf@dhcp-077-250-125-249.chello.nl)`
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`09:40.49`	`Torhal`	`soufron, now that hunters have unlimited ammo...isn't it time to show the Warlocks some love and ditch the shards?`
`09:40.56`	`Torhal`	`Whoah.`
`09:41.11`	`Torhal`	`Somehow "so," turned into "soufron,"`
`09:41.16`	`foxlit`	`it's time to show the warlocks some love and convert them all into mages`
`09:41.23`	`Torhal`	`foxlit: Nay!`
`09:41.42`	`End`	`yeah, because all I ever wanted to do was spam frostfire bolt`
`09:41.59`	`foxlit`	`hey, l2p`
`09:42.04`	`foxlit`	`You can also spam evocation`
`09:42.08`	`End`	`lol`
`09:42.23`	`zenzio`	`Shadowfrostfirebolt!`
`09:42.43`	`End`	`needs more nature and arcane`
`09:42.50`	`End`	`not holy though`
`09:42.52`	`End`	`fuck holy`
`09:42.53`	`foxlit`	`screw nature and arcane`
`09:42.57`	`foxlit`	`gief holy bolt!`
`09:43.01`	`zenzio`	`you get nature when they merge the Warmages with the Shamans`
`09:43.09`	`End`	`like what one of the 4h has?`
`09:43.21`	`zenzio`	`Warshamages will have Shadowfrostfirenaturebolt and Fear`
`09:43.53`	`zenzio`	`(and Heroism)`
`09:45.07`	`sacarasc`	`Or Bloodlust`
`09:45.15`	`zenzio`	`both!`
`09:45.22`	`zenzio`	`on independent cooldowns`
`09:47.06`	`sacarasc`	`:o`
`09:47.38`	`*** join/#wowuidev EthanCentaurai (n=ethan@78.149.151.223)`
`09:48.24`	`*** join/#wowuidev smoke_ (n=smoke@76.204.39.132)`
`09:50.38`	`Wobin_`	`:O`
`09:50.39`	`Wobin_`	`# Consumable ammunition has been removed from the game. Arrows and bullets no longer stack, but are not consumed. Ranged attack speed bonus gained from quivers and ammo bags will be preserved in a different capacity.`
`09:50.59`	`Kalroth`	`Yeah, kinda nutty`
`09:51.04`	`End`	`people keep noting that`
`09:51.09`	`Wobin_`	`and Gargoyle becomes the 51 point talent?`
`09:51.10`	`Wobin_`	`zomg`
`09:52.40`	`Wobin_`	`... does this mean that quivers/ammo bags are now items?`
`09:53.18`	`*** join/#wowuidev WobWork (n=Wobin@203-158-45-155.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`09:57.51`	`sacarasc`	`Not now, maybe in the future ;p`
`10:02.59`	`*** join/#wowuidev devZero (n=devZero@209-20-86-91.slicehost.net)`
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`10:10.59`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Legorol] by ChanServ`
`10:12.16`	`*** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys)`
`10:16.45`	`*** join/#wowuidev Movix (n=mattes@82.242.144.196)`
`10:24.38`	`foxlit`	`/. Games: Massive EVE Online Alliance Disbanded`
`10:24.45`	`foxlit`	`truly news for nerds there!`
`10:27.52`	`Zyndrome`	`EVE Online is very interesZZZzzzzzZzZzzZzzZZzzzzzzzzzzZZZzzZZZzzZZZzz`
`10:28.48`	`Kalroth`	`You never tried PvP then :p`
`10:29.11`	`Kalroth`	`EVE is super boring if all you do is mine in 1.0 or run around in 0.0 in an ibis with warp cores`
`10:35.57`	`*** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics)`
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`11:35.07`	`*** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys)`
`11:35.34`	`Adys`	`finally done with that one ..`
`11:35.43`	`pb_ee1`	`Congrats`
`11:36.27`	`Adys`	`pb_ee1: stop being a smartass and log gtalk :P`
`11:36.39`	`pb_ee1`	`i'm... aha no digsby failed`
`11:40.44`	*** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh)
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`12:01.14`	`*** join/#wowuidev NeutroN-- (i=NeutroN-@217-188-39.5001.adsl.tele2.no)`
`12:02.13`	`NeutroN--`	`is anyone about? :P`
`12:02.42`	`haste`	`at this hour?! bollocks!`
`12:03.12`	`NeutroN--`	`I just wonder if anyone knows how the ignore feature in WoW works. do you tell the server that you want to ignore the player, so the server replies the "is ignoring you" message, or is it your client that does it?`
`12:03.33`	`NeutroN--`	`what I want to know is if it's possible to put someone on ignore, but still see the messages they send to you :p`
`12:03.58`	`Fisker-`	`haste`
`12:04.03`	`Fisker-`	`why must you be my mortal enemy?`
`12:04.20`	`haste`	`Ask yourself!`
`12:04.31`	`Fisker-`	`:(`
`12:04.33`	`Fisker-`	`why so mean?`
`12:05.02`	`haste`	`NeutroN--: you can always ignore via add-on hooks, but the person will still be able to send you messages without getting the "is ignoring you" message`
`12:05.50`	`NeutroN--`	`yeah well the idea is to ignore someone so they see that message, but still be able to tell if they tried to message you (just to know how often they try to check if you have unignored them) :)`
`12:06.16`	`NeutroN--`	`but I guess it doesn't work like that`
`12:08.05`	`*** join/#wowuidev AlphaCentaurai (n=ethan@92.24.91.58)`
`12:13.47`	`Ycarene`	`Does a critical heal generate more threat than a normal heal?`
`12:22.45`	`*** join/#wowuidev Pneumatus (n=WiN@unaffiliated/pneumatus)`
`12:24.37`	`Tifi`	`afaik 2 HPs healed (not overheal) = 1 threat, so yes it does`
`12:25.44`	`Tifi`	`(unless it's OH of course)`
`12:32.14`	`*** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk)`
`12:49.53`	`\|pez\|`	`So guys, 32 attack power, or 27 agility? BM Hunter.`
`12:51.08`	`*** join/#wowuidev Sentri (n=teemu@dsl-kpobrasgw1-feb8fb00-232.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`12:55.10`	`sacarasc`	`5 less AP but a little crit... shrug`
`12:55.21`	`Ycarene`	`Seems that the agi would have a wider benefit.`
`12:55.27`	`Fisker-`	`i agree`
`12:55.38`	`Fisker-`	`Take agility or you prefer the company of men`
`12:55.54`	`Ycarene`	`Agi also scales with BoK.`
`12:55.57`	`\|pez\|`	`I do preder the company of men, actually. :o`
`12:56.22`	`Fisker-`	`awesome`
`12:56.24`	`Ycarene`	`"preder"?`
`12:56.29`	`\|pez\|`	`I did AP though, didn't have to use a dragon's eye.`
`12:56.31`	`\|pez\|`	`prefer`
`12:56.37`	`\|pez\|`	`d and f are next to eachother.`
`12:56.45`	`Ycarene`	`k`
`12:58.52`	`Ycarene`	`Seems then that healers would actually want a LOWER crit rating, to make threat easier to manage.`
`12:59.40`	`Fisker-`	`what?`
`12:59.49`	`mikma`	`little richard`
`13:01.18`	`foxlit`	`Just me or are the speech bubble locations in 3.0.8 really screwed up?`
`13:02.24`	`Fisker-`	`old foxlit`
`13:12.28`	`*** join/#wowuidev Consite (n=Constie@c83-254-113-53.bredband.comhem.se)`
`13:15.12`	`Taroven`	`foxlit: kinda... if they're coming from somewhere you're not looking at, they go dead centert`
`13:15.15`	`Taroven`	`*center`
`13:15.21`	`Taroven`	`annoying imo. -.-`
`13:19.19`	`mikma`	`shirik: http://kuvaton.com/bshit/freeday.jpg`
`13:21.40`	`foxlit`	`There's a Shirik?`
`13:22.56`	`*** join/#wowuidev Shirik\|Ecole (n=Shirik@132.253.205.68.cfl.res.rr.com)`
`13:23.10`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik\|Ecole] by ChanServ`
`13:32.29`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`sigh`
`13:32.43`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Why are you applying to us:`
`13:32.43`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`In my current guild we don't do very much and I would like to do more.`
`13:32.49`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Wow web stats reports:`
`13:32.49`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Huh?`
`13:33.04`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`^ real app`
`13:33.26`	`foxlit`	`What's the CVar that enables/disables environmental lightning on player characters?`
`13:34.34`	`Kalroth`	`Shirik, hahah`
`13:35.07`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Now let's take a looksie`
`13:35.14`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`In that same forum: Sticky: Things I Wish I Knew About Guild Apps But Noone Ever Told Me`
`13:35.42`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`awww they deleted it!`
`13:35.48`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`We used to have a sample crappy app`
`13:35.56`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`That was the exact response for the WWS question`
`13:38.20`	`*** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-053.hsi.kabelbw.de)`
`13:38.43`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I see you Cairenn!`
`13:38.57`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`can't hide!`
`13:40.37`	`*** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@LAubervilliers-153-53-3-81.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
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`13:49.20`	`Tifi`	`Ycarene, that is a very questionable conclusion to draw. most healing classes benefit from crit, and there's not one encounter in wotlk where healers have a reasonable change to pull aggro (unlike bloodboil for example)`
`13:50.27`	`Ycarene`	`I'm just saying that crit can make healing threat spiky, especially with a questionable tank.`
`13:51.33`	`ZorbaGama`	`if you have that questionable of a tank, you're doing something wrong anyway`
`14:02.22`	`*** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18)`
`14:02.22`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ`
`14:02.31`	`foxlit`	`"What to ask for? Perhaps a frozen scone..."`
`14:18.18`	`*** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-053.hsi.kabelbw.de)`
`14:21.38`	`Wobin`	`hm`
`14:21.44`	`Wobin`	`what meta should I put in my tanking helm?`
`14:22.29`	`zenzio`	`class?`
`14:22.39`	`Wobin`	`DK`
`14:22.53`	`Pneumatus`	`the armor contribution one, iirc`
`14:23.42`	`Pneumatus`	`Austere, i think`
`14:25.30`	`Wobin`	`ah earthsiege`
`14:32.50`	`Pneumatus`	`looking at armory, thats what our DK tank uses anyway`
`14:37.14`	`*** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@084202164112.customer.alfanett.no)`
`14:38.48`	`*** join/#wowuidev p3lim^ (n=p3lim@084202164112.customer.alfanett.no)`
`14:39.37`	`p3lim`	`Anyone know a good math of getting experience 'bubbles'?`
`14:39.41`	`p3lim`	`There are 20 of them`
`14:40.33`	`Tifi`	`i don't understand the question`
`14:40.53`	`p3lim`	`you know the default experience bar`
`14:41.03`	`p3lim`	`\| \| \| \| etc`
`14:41.07`	`p3lim`	`"buggles"`
`14:41.12`	`p3lim`	`bubbles*`
`14:41.31`	`Tifi`	`yea`
`14:41.56`	`*** join/#wowuidev topsub (n=josh@97.66.185.250)`
`14:42.26`	`p3lim`	`trying to find a good math to calculate it`
`14:42.36`	`p3lim`	`using max and current xp values`
`14:43.15`	`Tifi`	`afaik those "bubbles" are just a texture`
`14:43.49`	`mikma`	`p3lim: 100/20`
`14:44.03`	`MentalPower`	`its three textures`
`14:44.04`	`p3lim`	`100 beeing?`
`14:44.10`	`mikma`	`full`
`14:44.11`	`MentalPower`	`and the middle one is stretched`
`14:44.35`	`p3lim`	`actually there is 4 textures`
`14:44.47`	`p3lim`	`but the two in the middle are the same art, just duplicated`
`14:45.22`	`mikma`	`so, what's the actual problem now?`
`14:45.31`	`mikma`	`you want a bubble? reroll a paladin.`
`14:45.35`	`p3lim`	`mikma: yeah ofcourse, but the result should be how many bubbles youve currently got`
`14:45.37`	`p3lim`	`no total`
`14:46.01`	`mikma`	`you want to know how many bubbles you got xp?`
`14:46.04`	`mikma`	`is that all?`
`14:46.08`	`p3lim`	`yeah`
`14:46.18`	`p3lim`	`my brain is shut down atm :p`
`14:46.24`	`mikma`	`like...`
`14:46.35`	`mikma`	`maxxp-currentcp / 20`
`14:46.35`	`p3lim`	`(cur/max)*(max/20) or something`
`14:47.10`	`Tifi`	`no, 20*math.ceil(cur/max)`
`14:47.18`	`Tifi`	`err`
`14:47.24`	`Tifi`	`math.ceil(20*cur/max)`
`14:47.32`	`p3lim`	`ceil?`
`14:48.04`	`Tifi`	`ceiling, counterpart to floor`
`14:48.27`	`Tifi`	`floor+1 for positive numbers`
`14:48.42`	`Tifi`	`is this a lua question?`
`14:48.45`	`*** join/#wowuidev Zergreth (n=Crow@C9971.c.strato-dslnet.de)`
`14:49.51`	`Zergreth`	`waves hey there. recently developed something that moves the quest and achievement watcher into a tooltip which will then show up when hovering over the calendar button on the minimap. wanted to ask what you guys think about that, and if that might be useful for some of you`
`14:49.53`	`Zergreth`	`heres the link: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info12408-zQuest.html`
`14:49.55`	`p3lim`	`lua> cur, max = 500, 10000; print(max-cur/20)`
`14:49.55`	`lua_bot`	`p3lim: 9975`
`14:50.07`	`p3lim`	`now mikma, it cant be 9975 bubbles`
`14:50.17`	`Tifi`	`geez`
`14:50.22`	`mikma`	`you think?`
`14:50.30`	`Tifi`	`lua> cur, max = 500, 10000; print(math.ceil(20*cur/max))`
`14:50.30`	`lua_bot`	`Tifi: 1`
`14:50.43`	`Tifi`	`lua> cur, max = 8500, 10000; print(math.ceil(20*cur/max))`
`14:50.43`	`lua_bot`	`Tifi: 17`
`14:50.55`	`p3lim`	`hm`
`14:53.29`	`MentalPower`	`p3lim: remember, the meter does partials too`
`14:53.44`	`p3lim`	`MentalPower: what do you mean?`
`14:53.53`	`MentalPower`	`so you can see 5.4 or 3.7 bubbles, not 5 and 4`
`14:54.10`	`p3lim`	`yeah im not gonna use math.ceil`
`14:54.16`	`p3lim`	`gonna use string.format and %.1f`
`14:55.04`	`Zergreth`	`okay, obviously wont work this way. any other place i can use to show off my addons?`
`14:55.51`	`Zergreth`	`except the wowi forums, already created a thread without success`
`14:56.02`	`MentalPower`	`Zergreth: erm... word of mouth is the best way`
`14:56.23`	`p3lim`	`Zergreth: Wont work with pMinimap atleast`
`14:56.26`	`Tifi`	`or televised ads`
`14:56.31`	`Zergreth`	`well, who would i tell :/`
`14:56.31`	`p3lim`	`But its a good idea`
`14:56.45`	`MentalPower`	`however, you should create addons for yourself, if other people use them thats gret, but code for yourself`
`14:56.52`	`MentalPower`	`your guild is a good start`
`14:56.57`	`Zergreth`	`im playing on an rp realm, most of my guildies dont even like to use addons`
`14:57.02`	`MentalPower`	`~lart Tifi`
`14:57.02`	`purl`	`nabs the moon and broadsides Tifi with the sea of tranquility`
`14:57.09`	`MentalPower`	`:P`
`14:57.17`	`Tifi`	`^^`
`14:57.21`	`MentalPower`	`Zergreth: Ã§est la vie`
`14:57.22`	`Zergreth`	`im coding them for myself, but i want to help others with it aswell`
`14:57.58`	`Zergreth`	`maybe i should choose some better names. im not creative when it comes to names though`
`14:58.21`	`Zergreth`	`and a name like ThrowTheQuestWatcherIntoATooltip is...gay`
`14:58.36`	Olorin`	`not to mention bit long`
`14:58.40`	`MentalPower`	`WatcherTooltip?`
`14:58.44`	`Zergreth`	`meh`
`14:58.48`	`Zergreth`	`idunno`
`14:58.53`	`Zergreth`	`i will probably change it later`
`14:58.55`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Have a good name. Update it often. Respond to comments. Make the description good so it's easily searchable on the sites you put it on.`
`14:59.11`	`Zergreth`	`now that i got your attention though, i would like some comments. like the idea?`
`14:59.26`	`Tifi`	`(a good name is googlable btw)`
`14:59.31`	`Zergreth`	`Lopeppeppy, will only put it on wowi, maybe my website later`
`14:59.36`	`Zergreth`	`yea, i know`
`14:59.40`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Given that I modify my minimap to NOT include the calendar button, I could not use the addon.`
`14:59.50`	`*** join/#wowuidev Jerek_Dain (n=JerekDai@c-66-41-178-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)`
`14:59.53`	`Zergreth`	`yea, i thought about an easy way to attach it elsewhere`
`14:59.57`	`Zergreth`	`like, config shit`
`15:00.04`	`Lopeppeppy`	`And PS, most people will not download from your site, so make sure you feature it on nice reputable addon sites so they feel safe in downloading it.`
`15:00.22`	`Zergreth`	`wowi x)`
`15:00.45`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Otherwise, it's all word of mouth, and whether it's updated regularly. People don't download something that's "outdated" (which means over a month old to some yutzes)`
`15:00.58`	`Zergreth`	`dont expect them to download from my site anyway, will probably just link to wowi, with an optional mirror on my space`
`15:01.30`	`Zergreth`	`yea, well, thats the problem. i want my addons to be simple, lightweight, and i try to code them in a way that they dont have to be updated often`
`15:01.40`	`Zergreth`	`because i know how much some people hate updating shit when it breaks on patchday`
`15:01.42`	`Zergreth`	`i hate it aswell`
`15:02.54`	`Zergreth`	`i will probably add something that lets you attach the tracker elsewhere..uhh, any links explaining the usage of blizzard's addon option tab thingy in the interface options?`
`15:04.43`	`p3lim`	`lua> cur, max = 4950, 8710; print(6*cur/max)`
`15:04.43`	`lua_bot`	`p3lim: 3.4098737083812`
`15:05.17`	`p3lim`	`lua> cur, max = 4950, 8710; print(6*(max-cur)/max)`
`15:05.17`	`lua_bot`	`p3lim: 2.5901262916188`
`15:05.23`	`p3lim`	`ok it works :)`
`15:05.48`	`Lopeppeppy`	`If you don't update it after a patch, people will assume it's broken and not download. Just a tip. As for references to the addon tab... unsure what's out there for that.`
`15:06.24`	`Zergreth`	`well, i will probably tocbump them after a patch, or at least throw a confirmation that it works. thanks for the hint`
`15:08.05`	`Lopeppeppy`	`I've had a few years of flinging reassurance to the forums after a patch... the sheeple just look to see if it's been updated since patch, they don't care how it was updated, or why, just that the date is sparkly and new and happy.`
`15:08.34`	`Zergreth`	`good to know, thanks (:`
`15:11.22`	Olorin`	`If thats true Peppy im gonna create a Placebo addon`
`15:11.46`	Olorin`	`lots of buttons and sliders.... but does buggerall`
`15:12.23`	Olorin`	`sorry having cranky moment...back to lfg`
`15:13.28`	`Zergreth`	`so, anybody got a link to any blizzard addon options stuff documentation or similar? i cant find shit`
`15:13.30`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Olorin, they'd friggin' love that to pieces, and you know it. Say it's inspired by Discord code and you'll have a massive following.`
`15:14.27`	`*** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-66-8-244.mem.bellsouth.net)`
`15:14.27`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ`
`15:15.26`	`Tifi`	`make sure you put the words simple, light-weight, modular, configurable in the description`
`15:15.44`	`Tifi`	`maybe ace2, not sure if that helps anymore`
`15:15.58`	`Zergreth`	`i even try to avoid using any ace2 addons`
`15:16.08`	`Zergreth`	`true, libs are only loaded once, but they eat about about 1mb`
`15:16.16`	`Tifi`	`yea, not sure what the masses want nowadays`
`15:16.17`	`Zergreth`	`-about`
`15:16.44`	Olorin`	`haha Peppy thats probably so true, could have a slider that increases chance of better loot.... another that reduces chances of roaming adds etc....`
`15:16.56`	`Tifi`	`rofl`
`15:16.57`	`Zergreth`	`found something, just incase anybody else is interested: http://www.wowwiki.com/Using_the_Interface_Options_Addons_panel`
`15:17.37`	Olorin`	`chances of probability would mean it would convice someone its doing somthing`
`15:21.26`	`*** join/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (i=Dark_Elf@ip142.net253.mw.net)`
`15:24.12`	`*** join/#wowuidev Droolio (n=drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk)`
`15:25.33`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Olorin, put in a checkbox for "tier pieces only drop for those classes in your group" and your addon would be an instant I Win.`
`15:27.24`	`*** join/#wowuidev AckisWork (i=8ee55bae@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Troll/Ackis)`
`15:35.42`	`*** join/#wowuidev Shirik\|Ecole (n=Shirik@conspiracy/developer/Shirik)`
`15:35.42`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik\|Ecole] by ChanServ`
`15:36.10`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`rawr`
`15:36.17`	`Lopeppeppy`	`RAWR!`
`15:36.29`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`:(`
`15:36.34`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Lopeppeppy's rawr is always bigger than mine`
`15:37.07`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Shirik dear, I'm bigger than you are, and I am also a dino, which you are neither of these things, so logicalwise you can't be bigger.`
`15:37.39`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Just ask the Red Queen, she'll set you straight.`
`15:38.03`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`red queen?`
`15:38.22`	`foxlit`	`Queen of Hearts, surely.`
`15:38.23`	`Lopeppeppy`	`She lays out all of the rules in Wonderland. I think. Unless the Chesire Cat does.`
`15:38.45`	`zenzelezz`	`surely the red queen is Alexstrasza`
`15:39.03`	`Lopeppeppy`	`I'm terrified of Alexstrasza.`
`15:39.16`	`foxlit`	`She'll torch your corpse so you'll have to spirit res.`
`15:39.40`	`Lopeppeppy`	`The reds petrify me, where not even the blacks do. The reds are one step away from being terrible but beautiful....`
`15:41.57`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`did Lopeppeppy see the paladin news?`
`15:42.46`	`foxlit`	`"Paladins are now part of their own phased world, where everything dies in 2 hits"`
`15:43.01`	`foxlit`	`"To compensate, warlocks can now heal"`
`15:43.02`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`"oh wait, that already happened"`
`15:43.52`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Shirik, I did. Basically, the nerf to Plea stands for the time being, everyone gets kings which means I pay to respec yet again, and otherwise, my mana pool continues to be scrod. I think a mage is looking like a lot of fun right now.`
`15:44.21`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`:(`
`15:44.28`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`priest is fun`
`15:45.14`	`*** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@LAubervilliers-153-53-3-81.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`15:45.47`	`*** join/#wowuidev cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics)`
`15:45.55`	`Lopeppeppy`	`I have one of those, but not on my current favored server. Maybe I pays to move her too.`
`15:46.39`	Olorin`	`trying to get group on mine atm :/`
`15:46.42`	`\|Jelly\|`	`They're probably going to make 2% base, just to be assholes.`
`15:46.50`	`Lopeppeppy`	`2% base?`
`15:47.04`	`\|Jelly\|`	`Yeah, for Kings.`
`15:47.23`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Ah. make it more widely available, but nerf the bejeesus out of it?`
`15:47.31`	`\|Jelly\|`	`No`
`15:47.38`	`\|Jelly\|`	`They'll give you 2%, but make you spec it to 10.`
`15:48.31`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Ah. Well, I'm sure I'll have to respec anyway, since it's currently all talent.`
`15:48.47`	`foxlit`	`I demand BoK benefits without the disadvantages of actually having a paladin!`
`15:48.58`	`foxlit`	`They should clearly make the +10% stats bonus baseline on all gear and effects.`
`15:49.31`	`Lopeppeppy`	`That would cement the deal for sure.`
`15:53.58`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I keep trying to convince Lopeppeppy to play her priest permanently`
`15:54.05`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`but she doesn't want to be like me :(`
`15:55.19`	`zenzelezz`	`maybe she's not into dresses like you Shirik`
`15:55.31`	`Seerah`	`pallies can wear dresses`
`15:55.43`	`*** join/#wowuidev Eufix (n=kkovac@bulbdoab.iskon.hr)`
`15:55.49`	`zenzelezz`	`but why would they when they can be hawt in plate!`
`15:56.05`	`*** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight)`
`15:56.05`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ`
`15:56.07`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Pallies used to wear dresses all the time.`
`15:56.10`	`zenzelezz`	`hell, my warrior can wear dresses too, but he doesn't`
`15:56.16`	`Seerah`	`I don't know... the best pally tier model was a dress :P`
`15:56.20`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Exactly. :)`
`15:56.55`	`Seerah`	`I always thought my pally friends were "hawt" in a skirt ;)`
`15:58.17`	`*** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@ti500710a080-2799.bb.online.no)`
`15:58.42`	`Lopeppeppy`	`But the dresses make it easier for me to target priests.`
`15:58.48`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Ahem, I mean assist.`
`15:59.20`	`Seerah`	`:)`
`15:59.20`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Lopeppeppy :(`
`15:59.44`	`Lopeppeppy`	`huggle`
`16:03.21`	*** join/#wowuidev Bibi` (n=Bibi@AVelizy-151-1-46-81.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr)
`16:03.50`	`zenzelezz`	`Seerah: that sounds completely backwards; it's supposed to be hard to find something for the girl, not the guy`
`16:04.13`	`Seerah`	`I know, right?`
`16:08.01`	`*** join/#wowuidev N3utr0n (i=NeutroN-@217-188-39.5001.adsl.tele2.no)`
`16:09.24`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`psh`
`16:09.38`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Seerah knows that she can get literally anything and the guy will be happy`
`16:09.45`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`she can buy a box of sand and he'll be happy`
`16:11.25`	`Lopeppeppy`	`I always have a hard time with presents too, I never know what to get.`
`16:11.50`	`*** join/#wowuidev Odlaw (n=ozzy@c-98-245-39-78.hsd1.co.comcast.net)`
`16:11.53`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`again`
`16:11.54`	`zenzelezz`	`that's because you put so much into it`
`16:11.58`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`you have genetics on your side`
`16:12.00`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`you can get anything`
`16:12.01`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`literally`
`16:12.06`	`Lopeppeppy`	`I do think too much, zenzelezz.`
`16:12.10`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`it's not fair imo`
`16:12.14`	`zenzelezz`	`I meant "you" as in girls`
`16:12.50`	`zenzelezz`	`if you actually were like guys everyone would just get a card or a $50 or something`
`16:12.54`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`zenzelezz: It takes them an hour to pick out shoes`
`16:13.01`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`And you want them to buy a present for someone`
`16:13.02`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`?`
`16:13.46`	`zenzelezz`	`I'm not sure what you're trying to say`
`16:13.58`	`zenzelezz`	`what I meant is that only girls put a lot into the meaning of what they receive anyway`
`16:14.07`	`Lopeppeppy`	`"Women are indecisive" is Shirik's point.`
`16:14.21`	`zenzelezz`	`well he's what, 10000 years late with that observation :)`
`16:14.37`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Gender is not the geek's best friend.`
`16:14.45`	`*** join/#wowuidev Vangual (n=bah@pdpc/supporter/active/vangual)`
`16:15.07`	`Seerah`	`hubby's a good gift giver - I think I suck or something...`
`16:15.34`	`Lopeppeppy`	`I'm usually pretty good, but it requires a lot of advance planning.`
`16:15.56`	`zenzelezz`	`Seerah: don't encourage word-play like that...`
`16:16.05`	`Seerah`	`:P`
`16:16.05`	`Shiibot`	`New WoW-EU Server Alert: > 04/02 Free character migrationThe following Free Character Migration will be available from Feb 4 to Feb 10:Horde only: Magtheridon --> Haomarush, Tarren Mill, Trollbane, Zenedar, Silvermoon (PvE)`
`16:16.05`	`Shiibot`	`Alliance only: Aerie Peak, Aggramar, Alonsus, Arathor, Azjol-Nerub, Bronze Dragonflight, Bronzebeard, Eonar, Hellscream, Khadgar, Lightbringer, Kilrogg, Kul Tiras, Silvermoon, Terenas, Turalyon --> Magtheridon`
`16:16.05`	`Shiibot`	`Al'Akir, Stormscale --> Vek'nilash, XaviusBurning Legion, Grim Batol --> Boulderfist, TrollbaneCrushridge, Sylvanas --> Chromaggus, HaomarushKazzak, Ravencrest --> Laughing Skull, Sunstrider`
`16:16.33`	`Seerah`	`Shiibot: please use pastey instead of spamming`
`16:16.38`	`Seerah`	`jk`
`16:16.47`	`zenzelezz`	`lol`
`16:17.00`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@2506ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk)`
`16:24.53`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`(11:15:05) (@Seerah) hubby's a good gift giver - I think I suck or something...`
`16:24.53`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`(11:15:32) (+Lopeppeppy) I'm usually pretty good, but it requires a lot of advance planning.`
`16:25.03`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`There is so much that can be done with those two lines`
`16:25.04`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Yes?`
`16:25.38`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Anytime you think you're ready to run with the big girls, I'll send you running back away. :)`
`16:25.43`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`haha`
`16:25.45`	`Seerah`	`Late Shirik\|Ecole is late`
`16:25.50`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`:(`
`16:25.59`	`Seerah`	`(10:15:54 AM) zenzelezz: Seerah: don't encourage word-play like that...`
`16:26.00`	`Seerah`	`:)`
`16:26.12`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`yes but he made no comment about Lopeppeppy`
`16:33.58`	`zenzelezz`	`to be fair Seerah, I think I'm generally more known for making such comments than Shirik is`
`16:37.41`	`*** part/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (i=Dark_Elf@ip142.net253.mw.net)`
`16:45.50`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`yes Seerah`
`16:45.57`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`I'm not as evil as zenzelezz`
`16:45.59`	`Seerah`	`:)`
`16:46.00`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`should be nice to me :(`
`16:46.32`	`zenzelezz`	`I'm not evil, I just have a dirty mind`
`16:49.15`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Shirik, I've been trying to help you write your paper for a week, how much more nice do I have to have?`
`16:51.46`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`So my guild is being mean to me`
`16:51.56`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`we were talking about how I could add 500 DKP to my name and nobody would know`
`16:51.57`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Why? And how?`
`16:52.00`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`And then someone chimes in`
`16:52.14`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`"You know, even if you gave yourself 500 DKP, you still wouldn't be in the top 3 for T7.5 gloves"`
`16:53.31`	`Lopeppeppy`	`That's a heck of a lot of DKP for your group to be carrying around.`
`16:53.47`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Did you do a flush before Wrath raiding, or carry over? Did you get DKP for 10 mans?`
`16:55.51`	`cog\|work`	`RAWR`
`16:56.35`	`Lopeppeppy`	`RAWR 2 U`
`16:58.45`	`*** join/#wowuidev Lunessa (n=Lunessa@129.7.92.182)`
`16:58.45`	`cog\|work`	`\o/ my cuisinart should be here tomorrow`
`16:58.50`	`cog\|work`	`... STATION!`
`16:59.05`	`Lunessa`	`... \0/ STATION!`
`16:59.20`	`cog\|work`	`and my free* palm centro will be here tomorrow`
`16:59.28`	`Lunessa`	`<PROTECTED>`
`16:59.36`	`cog\|work`	`* with two year contract renewal. Sales tax may apply.`
`16:59.41`	`Lopeppeppy`	`I want the cuisinart`
`16:59.45`	`Lopeppeppy`	`This comic is for win. http://www.twolumps.net/comics/20090206.jpg`
`16:59.48`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Hi Lunessa.`
`17:02.24`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Lopeppeppy: No and no`
`17:02.27`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`8 DKP per boss`
`17:02.30`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`12 week window`
`17:02.47`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`er, I mean "yes" and "no"`
`17:02.59`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`We did flush before wrath, and we do not get dkp for 10 mans`
`17:03.16`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Both are good things.`
`17:03.26`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`But yes, 500 is a ton`
`17:03.37`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`And it still wouldn't put me in position to get gloves`
`17:03.40`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`that makes me very qq`
`17:03.52`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`But it doesn't really matter, because Sartharion actually forgot how to drop conqueror`
`17:04.04`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`he has not dropped a single conqueror's gloves yet`
`17:04.27`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`In actuality, we didn't really flush before wotlk. It just "happened."`
`17:04.35`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`Our DKP system "undoes" old raids`
`17:04.53`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`DKP earned is unearned, items purchased are refunded`
`17:05.20`	`durcyn`	`if you're that hard up for gloves, why not do multiple sarth groups with ~10 or so?`
`17:05.30`	`durcyn`	`it's laughably easy with the drakes down`
`17:05.40`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`because we want T7.5?`
`17:05.47`	`durcyn`	`i'm talking about heroic.`
`17:05.51`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`oh`
`17:05.58`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`because we want 3D`
`17:10.53`	`*** join/#wowuidev Akama (n=Akama98@207.63.143.250)`
`17:19.33`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14910002728&sid=1`
`17:23.50`	`Lunessa`	`http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/2/6/ - not right. SO NOT RIGHT`
`17:24.09`	`*** join/#wowuidev keias (i=bleh@c-69-245-244-213.hsd1.in.comcast.net)`
`17:26.30`	`Shirik\|Ecole`	`wow`
`17:28.37`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Fanboi`
`17:33.17`	`*** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@86-60-157-18-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi)`
`17:41.27`	`*** join/#wowuidev PProvost (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost)`
`17:45.49`	*** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh)
`17:49.28`	`cog\|work`	`~poke Duman`
`17:49.28`	`purl`	`ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind Duman, pokes Duman repeatedly, hilarity ensues.`
`17:51.50`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`http://notalwaysright.com/why-skynet-annihilated-mankind-vol-1/1514`
`17:53.08`	`*** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal)`
`17:54.39`	`Dashkal`	`ooo, I see ptr blue posts`
`17:57.48`	`Dashkal`	`ok, the new arena rules? bounce I see a point to competing now.`
`17:57.51`	`Lopeppeppy`	`It is that time again.`
`17:58.45`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`:o "Consumable ammunition has been removed from the game. Arrows and bullets no longer stack, but are not consumed. Ranged attack speed bonus gained from quivers and ammo bags will be preserved in a different capacity."`
`17:59.26`	`Lopeppeppy`	`So... you have to carry one bullet and it works forever?`
`17:59.28`	`Dashkal`	`About damn time. Realisim can bite me`
`18:00.09`	`Dashkal`	`Though I think I'm gonna go make a small pile of bullet/arrow makers just in case the prices jump...`
`18:00.38`	`*** join/#wowuidev ArrowmasterClass (n=arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster)`
`18:00.46`	`Dashkal`	`s/prices/mats/`
`18:01.54`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`I still notice a distinct lack of changes to the "stack resto shaman" strategy >.>`
`18:02.44`	`*** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@62.242.38.50)`
`18:02.46`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`s/shaman"/shaman in a single group"/`
`18:03.46`	`*** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-66-8-244.mem.bellsouth.net)`
`18:03.46`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ`
`18:04.18`	`*** join/#wowuidev Pizik (n=Blank@planeshift/gamemaster/Pizik)`
`18:04.29`	`*** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys)`
`18:05.29`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kirov (n=Kirov@173.10.85.26)`
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`18:11.14`	`*** join/#wowuidev KarlThePagan (n=karl@166.129.74.142)`
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`18:22.32`	`*** join/#wowuidev KarlThePagan2 (n=karl@lanip-170-65.go180.net)`
`18:26.42`	`*** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-76-24-240-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)`
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`18:29.09`	`Torhal`	`Xinhuan: Does ELsia have to argue over everything? The CUSTOM_CLASS_COLORS discussion is reminding me of the LDB freakout a couple of months ago.`
`18:29.38`	`Torhal`	`Meh. Wrong channel. Whatever. Right person.`
`18:31.59`	`spode-`	`:o. What thread?`
`18:33.20`	`spode-`	`nvm found it`
`18:34.20`	`Torhal`	`spode-: Heh.`
`18:35.03`	`*** join/#wowuidev EthanCentaurai (n=ethan@92.24.91.58)`
`18:35.13`	`*** join/#wowuidev Nizomi (n=kvirc@pD9E43893.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:35.28`	`Nizomi`	`hm, so i've got an array { "a", "b", "c" } how od i check if "a" is in it?`
`18:35.41`	`Nizomi`	`also is there any easy way to find out if a char is an abc char? (a-z)`
`18:36.22`	`[Ammo]`	`init = false; for v in pairs(t) do if v == "a" then init = true; end; end;`
`18:37.22`	`[Ammo]`	`if you often have to quickly check if a value is in a list, but yuo don't really have any more info needed than that you might want to make the value the key of the table`
`18:37.43`	`[Ammo]`	`so array { "a" = 1, "b" = 1, "c" = 1}`
`18:37.52`	`[Ammo]`	`you can then check if t["a"] then .. end`
`18:38.19`	`alestane`	`Or you can implement sets as { ["a"] = "a", ["b"] = "b". ...}`
`18:38.38`	`alestane`	`That combines to two approaches but isn't always intuitive.`
`18:38.42`	`[Ammo]`	`true`
`18:41.36`	`alestane`	`You can check if a string consists entirely of a single letter with str:match("^%a%")`
`18:43.00`	`alestane`	`Excuse me, I hit a wrong key, str:match("^%a$")`
`18:45.13`	`*** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys)`
`18:54.01`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`alestane: that only works with base ascii letters`
`18:54.42`	`alestane`	`That will match anything which Lua considers a letter, according to the locale with which it was comiled.`
`18:54.46`	`alestane`	`compiled.`
`18:54.51`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`doesnt work in wow`
`18:56.57`	`alestane`	`Might work on European clients, depending on how thoughtful the UI team was. If you want to match diacriticals, you'll need to add them to the class manually, there's no defined group.`
`18:57.02`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`it wont`
`18:57.08`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`it cant`
`18:57.14`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`wow uses utf-8`
`18:57.36`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`lua doesnt support utf-8`
`18:58.20`	`alestane`	`And the Lua spec states that the exact sets of characters matched by classes may vary from implementation or locale.`
`18:58.26`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`right`
`18:58.38`	`alestane`	`Lua doesn't support or fail to support UTF-8. It has no concept of string encoding.`
`18:58.38`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`but that locale cant be utf-8`
`18:59.56`	`alestane`	`The compiler may not support natively included strings in some formats, but you can always insert the appropriate codes into a string.`
`19:00.32`	`*** join/#wowuidev Spellshaper (n=Spellsha@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-053.hsi.kabelbw.de)`
`19:00.32`	`alestane`	`lua> string.byte("Ã¤")`
`19:00.33`	`lua_bot`	`alestane: 195`
`19:01.00`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`lua> string.len("Ã¤")`
`19:01.00`	`lua_bot`	`ArrowmasterClass: 2`
`19:01.07`	`alestane`	`lua> string.match("Ã¤", "[\195]")`
`19:01.07`	`lua_bot`	`alestane: Ã`
`19:01.07`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`lua> string.byte("Ã¤",1,2)`
`19:01.08`	`lua_bot`	`ArrowmasterClass: 195, 164`
`19:01.11`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`see`
`19:01.23`	`*** join/#wowuidev pezz (n=user@213-187-182-126.dd.nextgentel.com)`
`19:01.45`	`*** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (n=gryphon@c-67-183-90-200.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`19:01.55`	`Lopeppeppy`	`RAWR!`
`19:02.12`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`you gave lua_bot a utf-8 Ã¤ and it saw it as two characters`
`19:02.49`	`alestane`	`lua> string.match("Ã¤", "[\195].")`
`19:02.49`	`lua_bot`	`alestane: Ã¤`
`19:03.47`	`alestane`	`Lua's built-in functions don't recognize that character lengths may be variable. But it's possible to code around that if you know what you're doing.`
`19:03.54`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`right`
`19:04.45`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`which means you cant really use any of the builtin pattern matching shortcuts`
`19:05.24`	`alestane`	`Only at least on US realms, people aren't supposed to have diacriticals in their names.`
`19:05.35`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`yes they can`
`19:05.40`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`theres nothing in the rules against it`
`19:06.08`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`but still not everybody plays on US realms`
`19:07.07`	`alestane`	`So you're saying I shouldn't tell people to use the %classes because they don't recognize diacriticals?`
`19:07.14`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`the default ui used %w in the slash command handlers for arena teams making it impossible to use unless you used only base ascii`
`19:07.17`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`right`
`19:07.30`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`using %classes is 100% broken on asian realms`
`19:07.53`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`which ofcourse the default ui did`
`19:08.03`	`mikma`	`help! i need unholy tanking spec, fast`
`19:08.44`	`alestane`	`Then that's an issue with WoW's options for compiling Lua, not the practice of using classes. It's a significant caveat, I'll agree, but still "good practice".`
`19:08.51`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`no its not`
`19:08.55`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`IT CANNOT BE FIXED`
`19:09.04`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`its not a compiling problem`
`19:09.12`	`alestane`	`Let me retread then.`
`19:09.24`	`alestane`	`No-one has done the needed work to fix it.`
`19:09.29`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`....`
`19:09.33`	`alestane`	`This is code, anything could be fixed.`
`19:09.35`	`*** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (n=MikeNGoS@189.176.146.159)`
`19:09.48`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`it would require a major Lua core patch`
`19:10.03`	`alestane`	`It might require digging into the Lua implementation of string matching, but it could be fixed.`
`19:10.09`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`and then we would have some abomination like WAR lua`
`19:10.17`	`alestane`	`We already do.`
`19:10.35`	`alestane`	`WoW Lua is not book Lua, it has several modifications.`
`19:10.42`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`not many though`
`19:11.05`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`the only major tricky one i can think of is string.upper and string.lower`
`19:11.38`	`*** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (n=MikeNGoS@189.176.146.159)`
`19:11.45`	`alestane`	`format continues to support patterns from Lua 4 that aren't valid according to to "real" Lua 5; some features were implemented to facilitate sandboxing; and the whole taint mechanism is grafted over it.`
`19:11.58`	`alestane`	`string.split doesn't exist in stock Lua.`
`19:12.02`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`right`
`19:12.19`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`ive compiled lua before using cogwheels wowlua patch`
`19:12.38`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`i applied the specific changes i wanted to a newer version of lua and compiled it`
`19:13.00`	`alestane`	`And if all WoW text is in UTF-8, than frankly, the sting functions should have been modified.`
`19:13.10`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`some where`
`19:13.11`	`alestane`	`string*`
`19:13.13`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`were`
`19:13.25`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`pattern matching wasnt, because its extremely complex`
`19:13.51`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`it would cause the definition of a character to change`
`19:13.59`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`from a byte to a character`
`19:14.00`	`alestane`	`Don't get me wrong, I understand cost-values exchanges.`
`19:14.02`	`*** join/#wowuidev AckisWork (i=8ee55bae@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Troll/Ackis)`
`19:14.14`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`and change the definition of string.len`
`19:14.18`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`which would be bad`
`19:14.31`	`alestane`	`But we're talking about a game intended from day one to support an international audience.`
`19:14.57`	`alestane`	`Hence the choice to use UTF-8, for instance.`
`19:15.01`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`since afaik chat messages on US and EU realms are limited to 255 bytes`
`19:15.14`	`alestane`	`That's my understanding.`
`19:15.22`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`not sure about asian realms since that means they get 255/3 characters`
`19:15.44`	`alestane`	`But don't typically need as many of those characters to communicate.`
`19:15.55`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`true`
`19:16.17`	`alestane`	`You need roughly the same number of bytes to encode a human communication, in my experience.`
`19:16.26`	`*** join/#wowuidev Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub)`
`19:16.26`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Tekkub] by ChanServ`
`19:17.04`	`alestane`	`Regardless of language or script. Our brains need a certain number of distinctions to discriminate meanings.`
`19:17.41`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Distinction: Chocolate. Distinction: gift. Distinction: Valentine's Day. Distinction: For the birds!`
`19:18.22`	`alestane`	`Now, of course, we're at a point where trying to fix it at the "right" level would probably break a whole slew of workarounds to the existing system and cause a huge outcry.`
`19:18.34`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`right, they did make some changes like making string.upper and string.lower work on utf-8 characters but other than that the rest of the string functions are base ascii`
`19:20.08`	`alestane`	`However, a workable "alphabetical character" class would require somehwere around 255 characters to encode correctly in a pattern.`
`19:20.33`	`alestane`	`Unless the ranges are more concise than I think.`
`19:21.00`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`no it would require a huge unicode map`
`19:21.19`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`since you need to support CJK`
`19:21.55`	`mikma`	`http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EMZ0xZfghI00ogcV0csut ?`
`19:22.01`	`mikma`	`is this cool for tanking?`
`19:22.13`	`alestane`	`Those should be ranges too, I think, if you're looking for the encodings of Roman characters that are used in those monospace scripts.`
`19:22.18`	`mikma`	`boneshield, unholy blight`
`19:22.40`	`alestane`	`The concept of "alphabetical character" doesn't make sense in ideographic script.`
`19:22.55`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`right so thats even more reason not to use %a`
`19:23.12`	`alestane`	`That depends entirely on what problem you are trying to solve.`
`19:23.39`	`alestane`	`If you are trying to process chat content or character names, then you're right, it may not be applicable.`
`19:24.06`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`something like characters vs punction`
`19:25.02`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kalroth_ (n=kalroth@2506ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk)`
`19:25.05`	`alestane`	`No clue, the original question was:`
`19:25.11`	`alestane`	`[1:35pm] Nizomi: also is there any easy way to find out if a char is an abc char? (a-z)`
`19:25.23`	`alestane`	`Which I'll assert my original solution was in fact correct for.`
`19:26.09`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`ok maybe`
`19:26.14`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`but then the question was probably wrong`
`19:27.41`	`alestane`	`I have no idea what the reason for wanting to know how was.`
`19:28.04`	`alestane`	`So maybe the correct initial answer was, "Why do you need to know?"`
`19:28.10`	`*** join/#wowuidev leethal (n=leethal@s0034-0015.dsl.start.no)`
`19:28.27`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Esamynn\|Work] by ChanServ`
`19:28.41`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`thats what i usually do`
`19:29.17`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`because most times when somebody new asks a question in here or wowace i ask them why`
`19:29.38`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`since likely theres a better way to do what they really want and not what they say`
`19:29.48`	`*** join/#wowuidev QQngsk (n=Gngsk@c-69-138-214-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net)`
`19:39.29`	`*** join/#wowuidev Esamynn\|Work (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn)`
`19:39.29`	`*** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Esamynn\|Work] by ChanServ`
`19:39.33`	`*** join/#wowuidev Anaral (n=Anaral@WoWUIDev/Norganna/QA-Engineer/Anaral)`
`19:48.06`	`*** join/#wowuidev Anaral (n=Anaral@WoWUIDev/Norganna/QA-Engineer/Anaral)`
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`19:49.23`	`Anaral`	`Okay, still says I need 2.5, I have 2.6.1`
`19:49.45`	`Anaral`	`I've looked at the script and I don't see where it's doing the python version check`
`19:50.07`	`alestane`	`Is it importing something that might be doing a version check?`
`19:50.39`	`Anaral`	`Maybe the .dll for X-Chat directly?`
`19:51.07`	`alestane`	`Possibly...`
`19:51.17`	`alestane`	`I'm new to Python.`
`19:57.00`	`Esamynn\|Work`	`Zor / ZorbaGama: which of you (if either) is the author of QuestHelper?`
`19:59.16`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`ZorbaGama is, the other might be him too`
`19:59.34`	`Esamynn\|Work`	`lol, this is why I asked ;)`
`19:59.41`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`ok the other isnt`
`20:00.34`	`Zor`	`Esamynn\|Work: Not me.`
`20:01.08`	`Esamynn\|Work`	`Zor: thanks`
`20:01.48`	`*** join/#wowuidev Anaral (n=Anaral@WoWUIDev/Norganna/QA-Engineer/Anaral)`
`20:07.39`	`Lunessa`	`"I mean a good 50% of the what you learned in TBC was that there is no candy in the fire. Stay out of the fire. Good god man get out of the fire. Dude you're in the doomfire!" - Zomgdie`
`20:07.47`	`*** join/#wowuidev Anaral (n=Anaral@WoWUIDev/Norganna/QA-Engineer/Anaral)`
`20:10.19`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`sweet my schools SSO broke again`
`20:10.40`	`*** join/#wowuidev PProvost (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost)`
`20:12.02`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Do not stand in poo. No matter what color or kind, just do not friggin' stand it in. End of story.`
`20:15.13`	`Lunessa`	`There is no candy in the fire.`
`20:16.04`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Awwww.`
`20:16.07`	`Lopeppeppy`	`I needs some candy!`
`20:22.52`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`Server was unable to process request. --> SECURITY ALERT: An invalid copy of Xceed.Compression.Formats.dll is installed on this system! Version 1.0.5357.0 is required.`
`20:22.55`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`hahaha`
`20:23.01`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`my schools SSO system sucks`
`20:23.25`	`ArrowmasterClass`	`that was a javascript error`
`20:37.48`	`*** join/#wowuidev Nizomi (n=kvirc@pD9E47C97.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`20:37.51`	`Nizomi`	`hm`
`20:38.03`	`Nizomi`	`any tripple triad addons?`
`20:38.24`	`Lopeppeppy`	`... giggle`
`20:38.38`	`Thunder_Child`	`~glare Lopeppeppy`
`20:38.39`	`purl`	`ACTION glares at Lopeppeppy`
`20:38.52`	`Nizomi`	`*triple`
`20:39.00`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Aw now, be nice. I read tribble first, and it was funny`
`20:50.51`	`*** join/#wowuidev Jagannath (n=bertarch@adsl-75-11-163-108.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net)`
`20:51.42`	`Nizomi`	`hey theres even a texas hold 'em addon xD`
`20:51.58`	`haste`	`drama in norway 'cause of it afaik`
`20:56.49`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Very very random music trivia question. I'm looking for a 50s 60s 70s country song about Mister Jones, a black man who adopted an orphan white child who broke his heart. My google fu has been stuck on Counting Crows. Anyone?`
`20:57.26`	`durcyn`	`bob dylan?`
`20:57.58`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Nope, not Bob Dylan.`
`20:58.47`	`Lopeppeppy`	`'And when the choir stopped singing, the telephone it just kept on ringing, as they slowly laid Mister Jones to rest. And there are those that say, well Mister Jones he passed away, from a broken heart and just plain unhappiness.'`
`20:58.53`	`Lopeppeppy`	`It's from the story-song era of country.`
`20:59.26`	`sacarasc`	`Anaral: If you're on windows xchat, it usually depends on specific versions of the languages`
`20:59.56`	`haste`	`Nizomi: no, don't think so`
`20:59.56`	`durcyn`	`Lopeppeppy: hm, Big Al Downing, then? http://www.cowboylyrics.com/tabs/downing-al/mister-jones-6470.html`
`21:00.04`	`Nizomi`	`q.q`
`21:00.05`	`Anaral`	`Thank you sacarasc I found a .dll for python 2.6 on the xchat forums. :)`
`21:00.08`	`Nizomi`	`would be nice to waste some time in raids`
`21:00.10`	`haste`	`Nizomi: was pondering about writing a sphere break addon tho' :P`
`21:00.25`	`Nizomi`	`sphere break?`
`21:00.26`	`Kirov`	`sphere break?`
`21:00.27`	`Lopeppeppy`	`Sweet, I just found that as well, durcyn! happy dance`
`21:00.36`	`haste`	`mini-game in x-2`
`21:00.38`	`*** join/#wowuidev Aquavette (n=Vette@74-137-180-250.dhcp.insightbb.com)`
`21:00.53`	`Nizomi`	`any flash versions of triple triad?`
`21:01.11`	`haste`	`loads of online versions afaik`
`21:01.18`	`Nizomi`	`any flash versions of sphere break? :D`
`21:01.36`	`haste`	`not that I know of Nizomi :(`
`21:01.52`	`haste`	`let me know if you find one tho' :p`
`21:02.01`	`durcyn`	`shucks.`
`21:02.01`	`Nizomi`	`^^`
`21:07.38`	`Nizomi`	`haste: http://teardrop.fourhobbits.net/index.html ?`
`21:08.28`	`haste`	`no way that will run in wine :p`
`21:08.50`	`Nizomi`	`xD`
`21:09.04`	`Nizomi`	`its flash?`
`21:09.05`	`Nizomi`	`O_o`
`21:10.40`	`haste`	`not exactly :p`
`21:12.11`	`Arrowmaster`	`its shockwave`
`21:16.49`	`*** join/#wowuidev KarlThePagan1 (n=karl@lanip-170-65.go180.net)`
`21:20.37`	`*** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (n=MikeNGoS@189.176.146.159)`
`21:24.03`	`Tekkub`	`the auditorium company splash reminds my of the old Cyan Worlds one from Myst`
`21:25.49`	`*** join/#wowuidev KarlThePagan2 (n=karl@lanip-170-65.go180.net)`
`21:28.51`	`*** join/#wowuidev AckisWork (i=8ee55bae@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Troll/Ackis)`
`21:29.16`	`Arrowmaster`	`http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ipnext.jp%2Fnews%2Findex.php%3Fid%3D5631&sl=ja&tl=en&history_state0=`
`21:29.33`	`*** join/#wowuidev KarlThePagan3 (n=karl@166.129.126.40)`
`21:31.09`	`alestane`	`So we get yet another competing standard so that Chinese manufacturers don't pay patent royalties.`
`21:31.35`	`Arrowmaster`	`not really, just another one of china's stupid moves to try and do things different that will fail`
`21:31.44`	`*** join/#wowuidev Diskmaster (n=YOURFACE@76.84.164.192)`
`21:31.49`	`Nizomi`	`hmmm`
`21:32.00`	`Arrowmaster`	`like there what was it, ipv9?`
`21:32.02`	`Nizomi`	`so whats a good way to do a "group search" in a guild forum?`
`21:32.14`	`Nizomi`	`like someone can say shadowfang, sunday, 14:00,`
`21:32.17`	`Nizomi`	`and some notes`
`21:32.21`	`Nizomi`	`and others can see that`
`21:32.22`	`Nizomi`	`:/`
`21:32.29`	`Matrix110`	`Well I can understand the movie though the royalities for BD are ridiculous :P`
`21:32.31`	`zenzelezz`	`forum posts is a good bet`
`21:32.34`	`Matrix110`	`*the move`
`21:33.59`	`Nizomi`	`zenzelezz: yeh but i feat it will become pretty confusing with time`
`21:34.08`	`Nizomi`	`when there are like 300+ threads lying around`
`21:34.14`	`*** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.29.18)`
`21:35.39`	`*** join/#wowuidev Thelyna (n=burp@222-152-90-38.jetstream.xtra.co.nz)`
`21:38.38`	`*** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys)`
`21:40.04`	`Nizomi`	`hm i dont understand that aq boss`
`21:40.15`	`sacarasc`	`Which one?`
`21:40.24`	`Nizomi`	`(the two guys in the room with the big disappearing eye)`
`21:40.33`	`Fisker-`	`twin emperors`
`21:40.36`	`Nizomi`	`yeh`
`21:40.40`	`Fisker-`	`They're pretty much brokeback mountain`
`21:40.55`	`sacarasc`	`I don't think I've ever done that one`
`21:40.58`	`Nizomi`	`i tried to tank the healing one but uhm, someitmes it was like`
`21:41.03`	`Nizomi`	`hit and sometimes it just said immune`
`21:41.04`	`Nizomi`	`O_o`
`21:41.08`	`Fisker-`	`They both heal?`
`21:41.13`	`Nizomi`	`left one`
`21:41.14`	`Nizomi`	`with less hp`
`21:41.15`	`Nizomi`	`:p`
`21:41.16`	`zenzelezz`	`Nizomi: they swap places regularly`
`21:41.22`	`Fisker-`	`Also one is immune to magic damage and the other is immune to physical`
`21:41.24`	`Nizomi`	`oh`
`21:41.26`	`Fisker-`	`Then they teleport to each other`
`21:41.29`	`Nizomi`	`AHHH`
`21:41.34`	`Nizomi`	`then i understnad`
`21:41.40`	`zenzelezz`	`you need one ranged and one melee tank on each one`
`21:41.52`	`Nizomi`	`ahhhh, k :D`
`21:42.53`	`Arrowmaster`	`i did that fight once at 70 after 3.0, they made me tank and i had no clue wtf i was doing since other people kept pulling as soon as the transistion`
`21:43.27`	`Arrowmaster`	`although i tanked all lvl 70 warlock tank crap except sunwell`
`21:43.32`	`zenzelezz`	`was a challenging fight back in the day`
`21:43.39`	`Nizomi`	`yeah i was like wtf`
`21:43.41`	`zenzelezz`	`these days it's the ignorance that makes it challenging`
`21:43.42`	`Nizomi`	`i lost target focus all the time`
`21:43.46`	`Nizomi`	`and suddenly he was immune`
`21:43.48`	`Nizomi`	`etc xD`
`21:44.18`	`Arrowmaster`	`well i knew they teleported, it was just as soon as it happened he went running off to the other side of the room`
`21:44.35`	`zenzelezz`	`Arrowmaster: it doesn't help if you know what they do when the others don't`
`21:44.43`	`Nizomi`	`dunno the raid leader was like`
`21:44.51`	`Nizomi`	`"keep them 60 yards from each other or they go immune"`
`21:44.55`	`Nizomi`	`and when he went immune i was like`
`21:45.03`	`Arrowmaster`	`Nizomi: they heal each other if they are close to each other`
`21:45.05`	`Nizomi`	`wtf they didn't get any more near`
`21:45.06`	`Nizomi`	`:D`
`21:45.07`	`Arrowmaster`	`the immune is normal`
`21:45.15`	`Arrowmaster`	`when they teleport`
`21:45.29`	`Fisker-`	`i want the PTR`
`21:45.38`	`zenzelezz`	`you can probably find some old videos of them around still if you want to see what it was like in the old days`
`21:45.53`	`*** join/#wowuidev Syzgyn (n=no@24-178-70-94.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com)`
`21:46.20`	`Fisker-`	`no sacarasc`
`21:46.23`	`Fisker-`	`you cannot deny me`
`21:46.29`	`Nizomi`	`so you need 4 tanks?`
`21:46.29`	`Fisker-`	`PTR is today`
`21:46.30`	`sacarasc`	`I just did!`
`21:46.32`	`Fisker-`	`or i will kill you`
`21:46.34`	`sacarasc`	`DENIED`
`21:46.49`	`Fisker-`	`Palas can technically tank both`
`21:46.55`	`Fisker-`	`The knockback might not be nice though`
`21:56.04`	`*** join/#wowuidev Amarande (i=amarande@24-151-102-150.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com)`
`21:57.50`	`*** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-71-59-222-35.hsd1.or.comcast.net)`
`21:59.51`	`*** join/#wowuidev Proditor (i=proditor@c80-217-98-122.bredband.comhem.se)`
`22:04.05`	`*** join/#wowuidev KarlThePagan (n=karl@lanip-170-65.go180.net)`
`22:08.52`	`*** join/#wowuidev EthanCentaurai (n=ethan@92.24.91.58)`
`22:19.30`	`*** join/#wowuidev devZero (n=devZero@209-20-86-91.slicehost.net)`
`22:20.11`	`devZero`	`hey, I'm trying to get tooltip data for a mouse over object such as a mining node, or herb, etc... and I can't seem to find the right SetX command to be able to get the data... any ideas?`
`22:20.17`	`Amarande`	`Evening Cairenn :)`
`22:20.23`	`Cairenn`	`hi Amarande`
`22:20.33`	`devZero`	`for example, to get unit tooltips, I can use GameTooltip:SetUnit, etc...`
`22:21.39`	`Nizomi`	`god i hate wow's char creation`
`22:23.17`	`*** join/#wowuidev Qzot (n=ericnick@64.161.0.238)`
`22:23.48`	`Amarande`	`Nizomi: "name unavailable"?`
`22:24.15`	`Amarande`	`soo ... any idea whether naxx is going to become insanely hard after the patch?`
`22:24.42`	`[dRaCo]`	`of course`
`22:24.51`	`[dRaCo]`	`because instances get harder when blizz patches them`
`22:24.55`	`devZero`	`here;s an example of my function:`
`22:25.02`	`devZero`	`http://wowuidev.pastey.net/107831`
`22:25.22`	`Amarande`	`[dRaCo]: in this case they're not patching the instance, though`
`22:25.26`	`Amarande`	`they're patching classes`
`22:25.39`	`devZero`	`for a unit, I would call it like: tt = tbGetUnit("SetUnit","target");`
`22:25.50`	`Amarande`	`specifically, they're nerfing healers' mana regen`
`22:26.32`	`Nizomi`	`Amarande: not only that`
`22:26.40`	`Nizomi`	`a) you can't copy form other chars`
`22:26.46`	`[dRaCo]`	`my healers haven't got mana problems, I think there won't be a problem doing Naxxramas`
`22:26.51`	`Nizomi`	`b) you can't really turn around teh char`
`22:26.57`	`Amarande`	`[dRaCo]: check the 3.1.0 notes on wowwiki`
`22:26.57`	`zenzelezz`	`devZero: if I remember correctly, interactable objects in the game world are doodads -- I don't know whether there is a SetX() for them`
`22:27.00`	`[dRaCo]`	`ulduar might be harder, but that's what it is supposed to`
`22:27.03`	`[dRaCo]`	`I read them`
`22:27.06`	`Nizomi`	`c) no numbers/something else on the choose-thingies`
`22:27.18`	`[dRaCo]`	`still, Naxxramas is and always will be easy`
`22:27.21`	`Amarande`	`Ulduar might be easier, because it's going to be balanced based on the capabilities of healers, though`
`22:27.37`	`devZero`	`zenzelezz: any ideas on how to get the tooltip for them then? I can change the function, I just didn't see anything listed in wowwiki on how to handle this`
`22:27.45`	`[dRaCo]`	`unless they nerf classes back to where they were on lvl 70`
`22:27.50`	`Amarande`	`hmm, also apparently druid tanks need to start stacking more crit rating`
`22:28.09`	`Nizomi`	`i'd like a recreate thingie too`
`22:28.33`	`Nizomi`	`so i hit a char, say recreate type DELETE in the box and it will pop open the char creation with the looks of the deleted char and teh name filled in`
`22:29.51`	`Amarande`	`YAY for sunder/faeriefire PvP nerf`
`22:29.51`	`zenzelezz`	`devZero: no, sorry. Haven't worked much with tooltips`
`22:29.56`	`Amarande`	`no more disproportionate power for sunder and faerie fire against clothies :)`
`22:30.01`	`Amarande`	`otoh ... "We are also working on making Spirit a more useful and interesting stat for all mages."`
`22:30.17`	`Amarande`	`right, like that's going to make mages want to stack spirit when they're nerfing spirit mana regen`
`22:30.40`	`devZero`	`anyone else?`
`22:32.15`	`*** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@c-76-27-160-125.hsd1.va.comcast.net)`
`22:33.07`	`Amarande`	`I'm also wondering about the viability of some leveling quests now with the mana regeneration nerfs`
`22:33.47`	`Amarande`	`"Totem streamlining: The Mana Spring and Healing Stream Totems have been combined. The Disease Cleaning and Poison Cleansing Totems have been combined." DEFINITE WOOHOO.`
`22:34.27`	`bleeter`	`here's some off-topic random stuff that's way geeky cool: http://singularityhub.com/2009/01/12/a-review-of-the-best-robots-of-2008/`
`22:36.10`	`Amarande`	`main problem I see with mana regeneration nerfs, in fact, would be leveling`
`22:36.41`	`Amarande`	`there's already a number of areas where the mobs repop quickly enough that casters barely have time to drink as necessary to avoid going oom then dying`
`22:36.50`	`Amarande`	`and now they'll have to find even more time to drink`
`22:41.28`	`Amarande`	`hmm, let's see what else`
`22:41.30`	`Amarande`	`yay for trainable kings`
`22:41.36`	`Amarande`	`yay for exorcism that works on all targets`
`22:42.29`	`zenzelezz`	`"Okay, let's kill Sargeras" ... "Damnit, who exorcised? No loot this week either guys"`
`22:43.58`	`Amarande`	`zenzelezz: wouldn't you want to use exorcism all the time against sargeras?`
`22:43.58`	`Amarande`	`I mean, he'd be Demon type, right?`
`22:44.03`	`Thunder_Child`	`Amarande, i think me meant the literal translation of exorcising`
`22:44.09`	`Thunder_Child`	`s/me/he/`
`22:44.10`	`zenzelezz`	`correct`
`22:44.15`	`Amarande`	`apparently, it's got a 100% crit rate against undead and demons, and against other enemies, it works the way that it did against undead and demons before 3.1`
`22:45.12`	`*** join/#wowuidev devZero (n=devZero@209-20-86-91.slicehost.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`22:45.12`	`*** join/#wowuidev Anaral (n=Anaral@WoWUIDev/Norganna/QA-Engineer/Anaral)`
`22:45.12`	`*** join/#wowuidev Droolio (n=drool@87-194-188-170.bethere.co.uk)`
`22:45.12`	`*** join/#wowuidev Matrix110 (i=Matrix11@pD957D9FD.dip.t-dialin.net)`
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`22:45.13`	`*** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/Kandoko)`
`22:45.13`	`*** join/#wowuidev Shadowed (n=outlaw@c-69-181-37-145.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`22:45.14`	`*** join/#wowuidev Aiiane (n=Aiiane@starfire.ST.HMC.Edu)`
`22:45.20`	`Amarande`	`anyway, this patch seems to be a definite mix of woohoos and dohs`
`22:45.42`	`zenzelezz`	`"Steve, why is you DPS so low?" "I forgot arrows again" "... right"`
`22:45.59`	`Amarande`	`zenzelezz: steve will love 3.1, btw`
`22:46.01`	`Amarande`	`"Consumable ammunition has been removed from the game. Arrows and bullets no longer stack, but are not consumed. Ranged attack speed bonus gained from quivers and ammo bags will be preserved in a different capacity. "`
`22:46.07`	`zenzelezz`	`that's what I was aiming at :-p`
`22:46.19`	`Thunder_Child`	`i assume that means free bag slots for hunters?`
`22:46.20`	`zenzelezz`	`I must be less obvious than usual tonight`
`22:46.21`	`Amarande`	`wonder what this means for engineers' craftable ammo`
`22:46.35`	`Amarande`	`we only have to craft each tier of ammo once? :)`
`22:46.36`	`sacarasc`	`It means it's useless! Woo!`
`22:46.47`	`zenzelezz`	`I wonder if they'll make any new ammo with that change...`
`22:46.59`	`Amarande`	`sacarasc: actually, when leveling, the crafted ammo is generally better than the vendor stuff until you hit outland or so`
`22:47.00`	`zenzelezz`	`otherwise the Mount Hyjal ammo will still be king`
`22:47.02`	`Thunder_Child`	`custom particle effect ammo would be nice`
`22:47.24`	`Amarande`	`and I think even the stuff in outland that's better, requires rep, so you'd probably still be better off with the adamantite arrow/shell makers`
`22:48.26`	`*** join/#wowuidev Anaral (n=Anaral@WoWUIDev/Norganna/QA-Engineer/Anaral)`
`22:49.03`	`Hirsute`	`Amarande: I don't know why engineer's craftable ammo would be useless, they just wouldn't have to continually make it. Make one, that's all they need until they can use the next better one.`
`22:49.06`	`Amarande`	`I'm not familiar with whether or not there was engineer crafted ammo in northrend`
`22:49.23`	`End`	`there's arrow/bullet makers`
`22:49.36`	`Amarande`	`more significantly, it means that warriors only ever need to carry one stack of ammo, ever, pretty much`
`22:49.39`	`Hirsute`	`End: I expect those will be changed to arrows/bullets`
`22:49.46`	`*** join/#wowuidev drexore (n=drexore@redeye.xs4all.nl)`
`22:49.47`	`End`	`probably yeah`
`22:51.46`	`Amarande`	`probably also a good thing they waited until wotlk to introduce this`
`22:52.00`	`Amarande`	`if thori'dal was still the best bow ... lol`
`22:52.08`	`*** join/#wowuidev Qzot_ (n=ericnick@64.161.0.238)`
`22:52.10`	`Esamynn\|Work`	`heheh`
`22:52.13`	`Kirov`	`Thunder_Child - they had those ice arrows that were really popular`
`22:52.25`	`End`	`from AV?`
`22:52.35`	`Kirov`	`yep`
`22:52.49`	`Kirov`	`All the other hunters in my original raiding guild used those because they had blue trails`
`22:53.11`	`Esamynn\|Work`	`one wonders if maybe Thori'dal will get a new benefit to replace the one it's losing ;)`
`22:53.36`	`Nizomi`	`hm any good free leveling guides i could test?`
`22:54.10`	`Syzgyn`	`Nizomi: Tourguide?`
`22:54.11`	`Amarande`	`"Improved Soul Leech - this talent now provides Replenishment (similar to shadow priests)"`
`22:54.12`	`Amarande`	`hmm.`
`22:54.30`	`Amarande`	`wonder if every warlock is pretty much now going to be required to use this, or suck in raids`
`22:54.40`	`Amarande`	`well, not necessarily suck themselves, but be regarded as a sucky team player`
`22:54.45`	`Amarande`	`which, in raids, is worse than sucking individually :)`
`22:54.47`	`End`	`probably not`
`22:55.01`	`End`	`BM hunters weren't considered sucky team players`
`22:55.30`	`Amarande`	`End: that's probably because most of them just sucked`
`22:55.32`	`Amarande`	`back in the day, anyway`
`22:55.40`	`End`	`what do you mean, back in the day`
`22:55.40`	`Amarande`	`now most of the third-rate players play dk's`
`22:55.46`	`Amarande`	`End: before there were DKs`
`22:55.51`	`End`	`I'm talking from 3.0 to 3.0.8`
`22:56.03`	`End`	`replenishment is a new thing`
`22:56.14`	`End`	`it's a deep survival talent for hunters`
`22:56.26`	`Kirov`	`Yeah, everyone who used to play third-rate rogues now play third-rate dks (and the first rate rogues all play ret pallies)`
`22:56.38`	`*** join/#wowuidev cbreak (n=cbreak@217-162-238-189.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`22:56.53`	`End`	`frost mages, survival hunters, shadow priests, ret paladins and destro warlocks will be the ones with replenishment, and they are all deep talents`
`22:57.14`	`Kirov`	`So far they haven't made me spec frost`
`22:57.33`	`End`	`they probably won't either, unless your raid group is -hurting- for a replenishment source`
`22:57.48`	`Amarande`	`apparently, replenishment will be much more important, though`
`22:57.59`	`Nizomi`	`hm`
`22:58.03`	`Kirov`	`If my guild made me spec frost I'm going to be buying a hardware macroable keyboard to spam Frostbolts for me.`
`22:58.03`	`Nizomi`	`is carbonite quest any good?`
`22:58.06`	`Amarande`	`they seem to be really wanting to hammer on healers' mana now`
`22:58.16`	`Kirov`	`Nizomi - I like it better than Questhelper.`
`22:58.21`	`End`	`some heal classes are kinda silly when it comes to mana`
`22:58.24`	`End`	`paladins especially`
`22:58.32`	`Nizomi`	`well gonna try it`
`22:58.39`	`Kirov`	`Nizomi - Both have their good points, but I use Carbonite over Questhelper simply because it's fairly easy to hide it when you don't want it.`
`22:58.50`	`Nizomi`	`./qh hide`
`22:58.51`	`Nizomi`	`O_o`
`22:58.55`	`Amarande`	`End: the way they're talking about fixing it though, seems like everything's going to become a frenetic race where you have to be a fully theorycrafted meter maid to not be considered faildps`
`22:59.01`	`Amarande`	`since otherwise the healers will go oom and you die`
`22:59.03`	`Nizomi`	`whats hard about that`
`22:59.03`	`Nizomi`	`xD`
`22:59.06`	`Amarande`	`Heroic Halls of Stone ... shudder`
`22:59.24`	`Nizomi`	`well i'll try carbonite to level my new shaman (called Mittens, hehe)`
`22:59.29`	`*** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=sioraioc@78-86-82-152.zone2.bethere.co.uk)`
`22:59.37`	`Kirov`	`Nizomi - With carbonite you just don't look at their map, done!`
`23:00.15`	`End`	`Amarande: I didn't get that impression`
`23:00.20`	`Amarande`	`End: and I think people already worry too much about the meters as it is :)`
`23:00.41`	`Amarande`	`people didn't obsess this much over meters in BC, unless it was a strict DPS race like Brutallus`
`23:02.01`	`Nizomi`	`Kirov: lol :p`
`23:02.46`	`Nizomi`	`wow now i have 3 map replacement and 1 minimap replacement addon or something like that xD`
`23:03.04`	`Kirov`	`Questhelper has also become epicly linked to random crashes in wow`
`23:03.14`	`Amarande`	`what changed between BC and WotLK to make people focus so much on meters?`
`23:03.18`	`Amarande`	`Kirov: so has recount`
`23:03.27`	`Amarande`	`yet I run recount and have never had any issues with it :S`
`23:03.55`	`zenzelezz`	`just because someone experience crashes doesn't mean everyone will`
`23:04.17`	`*** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-158-45-155.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`23:04.30`	`Amarande`	`btw, does destro currently provide better dps than demo?`
`23:04.37`	`Nizomi`	`Kirov: hm how do i anchor the quest-list frame to the right?`
`23:04.39`	`Amarande`	`I keep thinking of trying it, but wonder if it would be a waste of gold`
`23:05.14`	`Kirov`	`Let me put it this way. My fiance and I quest together a lot. Both Questhelper and Carbonite have quest information sharing, but they only work with other people with the same addon. Questhelper hard locks my fiancee's computer constantly, though I've never had an issue with it.`
`23:05.22`	`Kirov`	`We use Carbonite.`
`23:05.34`	`Kirov`	`Nizomi - move it?`
`23:05.44`	`Kirov`	`click + drag`
`23:05.56`	`Amarande`	`Looks like 32/39/0 will go the way of the dodo, too`
`23:06.09`	`Amarande`	`since they're tossing everything all about in the frost tree`
`23:06.32`	`Amarande`	`though I'm not sure I will ever create a DK`
`23:07.45`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`hm, am i missing another episode of "Amarande talks out his ass?"`
`23:08.15`	`Nizomi`	`hm`
`23:08.23`	`Thunder_Child`	`more or less NightHawkTheSane`
`23:08.26`	`Nizomi`	`Kirov: does carbonite calculate a quest route too?`
`23:08.46`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`Thunder_Child: they're always useful when i'm low on my dailiy quota of stupid`
`23:09.02`	`Thunder_Child`	`how could you ever be low?`
`23:09.54`	`Kirov`	`Nizomi - no, it points you to the closest quest.`
`23:10.10`	`Nizomi`	`Kirov: object or quest based?`
`23:10.13`	`Nizomi`	`*objective`
`23:10.18`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`Thunder_Child: sometimes i go a while without talking to other people`
`23:10.19`	`*** join/#wowuidev drexore (n=drexore@redeye.xs4all.nl)`
`23:10.33`	`Thunder_Child`	`NightHawkTheSane, and with out using the web?`
`23:10.39`	`Kirov`	`Nizomi - objective, and with a fairly acurate 2d area map for most things.`
`23:10.40`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`yeah`
`23:11.07`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`sometime i put on a couple movies, log on my low level alt and chill out by myself. the solitude is nice at times`
`23:11.13`	`Nizomi`	`Kirov: hrm, isn't that what quest helper does too? jsut with calculating more quests than just the next one`
`23:11.17`	`Kirov`	`Nizomi - you can set which quest to look at via the map, or via the quest list, and it'll always show which one you're looking at.`
`23:11.26`	`Amarande`	`Night: remind me to have <opposite faction> raid <low level zone>`
`23:11.57`	`Kirov`	`Nizomi - I always found Questhelper's area maps to be too blurry to be of any more use than a single point.`
`23:12.20`	`Nizomi`	`Kirov: yeh i'm just comparing the 2`
`23:12.38`	`Nizomi`	`currently i like carbonite more, just wanna find out any disadvantages that i might have with using carbonite over qh`
`23:14.14`	`Nizomi`	`hm does anyone know a website with a list of forum games? (like counting up and everyone posts a picture with the next number in it and stuff like that)`
`23:15.13`	`Nizomi`	`Kirov: but i don't really like that the 2d-map uses artwork`
`23:15.28`	`Kirov`	`Nizomi - hmm?`
`23:15.57`	`Nizomi`	`imho minimap graphics would be better (like carto3 is using them)`
`23:16.01`	`Amarande`	`Night: you know what the next rung of stupid I've seen on the stupid ladder lately is?`
`23:16.17`	`Amarande`	`I've started to see tanks that insist that the group not contain plate DPS`
`23:16.27`	`Kirov`	`Nizomi - Cart 3 added that because of Cartographer.`
`23:16.31`	`Kirov`	`er, Carbonite`
`23:16.53`	`Kirov`	`Nizomi - Carbonite Quest doesn't have it for most areas, you have to buy the full version for that.`
`23:17.03`	`Nizomi`	`wtf?`
`23:17.06`	`Kirov`	`ckknight's implementation of that is a lot cleaner though.`
`23:17.08`	`Amarande`	`Tried Cartographer 3, it wasn't so good compared to Cartographer 2`
`23:17.11`	`Amarande`	`Kirov: wtf`
`23:17.13`	`Amarande`	`commercial addons?`
`23:17.16`	`Nizomi`	`Amarande: i love carto3`
`23:17.21`	`Amarande`	`are you sure that's allowed by the TOU and EULA?`
`23:17.32`	`Kirov`	`Amarande - are you trolling, or serious`
`23:17.53`	`Amarande`	`Kirov: I would have thought that Blizzard wouldn't allow people to charge for addons`
`23:18.04`	`Amarande`	`of course, they let people charge for leveling guides, so who knows`
`23:18.07`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`why wouldn't they?`
`23:18.16`	`Amarande`	`not that I'd buy a leveling guide when Jame's is free, though :S`
`23:18.20`	`Nizomi`	`ok thats like a big minus point for carbonite xD`
`23:18.28`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`now, any idiot who actually PAYS for an addon is.. well.. an idiot`
`23:18.31`	`Nizomi`	`especially reading "subscription length" in sign up`
`23:18.37`	`Amarande`	`indeed`
`23:18.38`	`*** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (n=MikeNGoS@189.176.146.159)`
`23:18.43`	`Amarande`	`when everyone else is giving something away for free`
`23:18.46`	`Nizomi`	`i mean, buy, yeah maybe if its like $2, but subscribe wtf?`
`23:18.50`	`Amarande`	`you don't charge for yours. that's just ... dumb`
`23:18.56`	`Kirov`	`Amarande - people paid for RDX for a long time. There have been a bajillion posts on the forums about Carbonite with nothing from Blue saying no.`
`23:18.59`	`Amarande`	`that's like putting something on AH for 100g when everyone else is charging 2g`
`23:19.11`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`but i dont think blizzard can actually prevent it`
`23:19.20`	`Amarande`	`Night: they could always prohibit it in the EULA`
`23:19.47`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`those are barely enforceable, at best`
`23:19.58`	`Kirov`	`The code is owned by the person who wrote it. As long as they're not distributing Blizzard's content with the addon there's nothing for Blizzard to object to.`
`23:20.10`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`and they'd probably have to completely ban addons to do it`
`23:20.44`	`Amarande`	`eww`
`23:20.46`	`Amarande`	`yeah, bad idea then`
`23:20.53`	`Amarande`	`default blizzard ui = fail`
`23:20.55`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`like Kirov said`
`23:21.02`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`the code isn't blizzards`
`23:21.28`	`Amarande`	`still, trying to sell something when there's free competition is like putting something on the AH for hundreds of gold more than everyone else is charging`
`23:21.32`	`Amarande`	`it's ... dumb`
`23:22.01`	`Nizomi`	`sorry but that fact alone pushes qh wide over carbonite on my rating imho :p`
`23:22.04`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`well, its charging for something that offers zero added value`
`23:22.13`	`Kirov`	`Carbonite Quest is free`
`23:22.15`	`Amarande`	`Night: exactly`
`23:22.16`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`at least linux can get away with charging for support`
`23:22.28`	`Kirov`	`Carbonite itself can be found for free if you search hard enough ;)`
`23:22.46`	`Nizomi`	`Kirov: i don't really wanna search "hard enought" every patch ^^`
`23:23.09`	`Kirov`	`Carbonite is actually a pretty impressive addon (so is Questhelper). The benefits of the for pay version over the free version are way too minor.`
`23:23.26`	`Nizomi`	`Kirov: i want minimap artwork xD`
`23:23.31`	`Kirov`	`"almost" everything Carbonite does is done by other addons.`
`23:23.45`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`eh, i think it's impressive, conceptually. i wouldn't be caught dead using it though`
`23:24.01`	`Kirov`	`http://carboniteaddon.com/`
`23:24.24`	`Amarande`	`anyway, ok, some of my previous commentary about 3.1.0 is probably unbased FUD`
`23:24.33`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`all your commentary is`
`23:24.46`	`Amarande`	`however, I am rather concerned about the impact of the healer mana regen nerfs on existing content`
`23:24.56`	`Kirov`	`Cartographer 3 is a direct response to Carbonite, which is based off of work done in Yatlas.`
`23:24.59`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`that's because you're a moron`
`23:25.04`	`Amarande`	`particularly when said content is run with characters of the gear level that it's supposed to be done with`
`23:25.28`	`Nizomi`	`yeh i remember yatlas`
`23:25.30`	`Nizomi`	`was very nice`
`23:25.31`	`Amarande`	`also, about the impact of mana regen nerfs on soloing`
`23:25.47`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`again, you're an idiot`
`23:25.57`	`Kirov`	`Yatlas and Carbonite both suffer from similar loading problems.`
`23:25.59`	`Nizomi`	`Kirov: the problem is that i wouldn't know a way to integrate carto3 into carbonite`
`23:26.08`	`Amarande`	`Night: again, areas have rapidly respawning mobs where it's hard enough as it is sometimes to find time to drink`
`23:26.18`	`Kirov`	`Nizomi - no one would. Carbonite's code is obsfucated.`
`23:26.29`	`Nizomi`	`xD`
`23:26.41`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`Amarande: so LEAVE the area.`
`23:26.46`	`Kirov`	`Nizomi - It's literally encrypted in on itself multiple times over.`
`23:27.29`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`the mana regen changes (it's not even worth being called a nerf) are so minor, most people probably wont notice`
`23:27.50`	`Kirov`	`Nizomi - the reasons come down to the for-pay version is subscription based. You have to re-download the addon every time your subscription runs out because the addon has encoded in to it a kill switch and the _one_ character / realm it'll run on.`
`23:28.12`	`Nizomi`	`lol`
`23:28.25`	`Nizomi`	`thats freaky`
`23:28.33`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`dammit.`
`23:28.48`	`Amarande`	`subscription software ftl, also :\|`
`23:28.54`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`i ran out of ammo halfway through doing the final ghostlands quests`
`23:29.11`	`Amarande`	`unless you actually get significantly new content with each installment`
`23:29.17`	`Amarande`	`Night: don't you wish 3.1.0 was here :)`
`23:29.28`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`yeah, i was just thinking that`
`23:29.48`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`really, i wish i had just checked my ammo before leaving tranquillien`
`23:30.00`	`Nizomi`	`sooo, how hard is it to re-write something liek carbonite? xD`
`23:30.30`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`meh, just steal the code :P`
`23:31.03`	`Kirov`	`NightHawkTheSane - see above, Carbonite's code is obsfucated`
`23:31.15`	`Kirov`	`Even un encrypted it'd be easier to write it yourself`
`23:31.41`	`Kirov`	`All of the variable names are random combinations of "lol" "rofl" "copter" "var" "local" etc`
`23:32.07`	`Amarande`	`what's real fun is that there are elements in the software industry who want -everything- to be subscription based :S`
`23:32.22`	`Kirov`	`There are literally functions that look like this`
`23:32.22`	`Kirov`	`function nx.lolroflvar(rofllol, lolol, varlocal)`
`23:32.27`	`Nizomi`	`subscription based bios!`
`23:32.29`	`Amarande`	`Kirov: why not just use 'i', 'j', 'k', etc. like people who make unreadable hair-tear code use? :)`
`23:32.42`	`Amarande`	`BOFH Excuse: Kernel license expired`
`23:32.51`	`haste`	`II1lll1l1II !`
`23:32.57`	`haste`	`now that's a var`
`23:33.10`	`Amarande`	`actually, single letter variables are something I used to use all the time`
`23:33.13`	`Kirov`	`Amarande - you'd have to take that up with the author.`
`23:33.19`	`Amarande`	`but that has a lot to do with that I grew up on Commodore BASIC`
`23:33.34`	`Nizomi`	`i will call it... ATMCU`
`23:33.35`	`Amarande`	`where variable names were limited to two characters, of which the first had to be a letter, and the second could only be a letter or number`
`23:33.39`	`Nizomi`	`Addon to make Carbonite useless`
`23:33.39`	`Nizomi`	`xD`
`23:33.44`	`Kirov`	`Simple Raid Target Icons uses a ton of single letter variables. It hurts every time I try and make a change to it.`
`23:34.18`	`\|Jelly\|`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:34.49`	`Amarande`	`but yeah, does the game really change -that much- that carbonite has a real reason to be subscription based :S`
`23:34.51`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`Kirov: meh, unless he changes the obfuscation pattern -each- release, it wouldn't be too hard to do it once, and thens cript itout`
`23:34.53`	`Lunessa`	`Meh, the guy made some good points, but still... he needs to QUIT IT`
`23:35.00`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`"then script it out"*`
`23:35.02`	`Nizomi`	`so`
`23:35.06`	`Amarande`	`how much does solo questing really change from patch to patch, anyway`
`23:35.35`	`Kirov`	`NightHawkTheSane - it is scripted out, and as far as I know, it does change every release.`
`23:36.04`	`Kirov`	`Carbonite has a couple of consistent errors. Every new version the errors usually still occur, but the error message bugsack shows is compeltely different.`
`23:36.36`	`Kirov`	`NightHawkTheSane - Again, because of the subscription setup Carbonite has, it has to be scripted.`
`23:37.04`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`heh, sounds like this dipshit spends more time writing a code obfuscator than an actual mod`
`23:37.42`	`Nizomi`	`so how do these quest addons work? i mean they have to save all kind of sh*t of quests`
`23:37.43`	`Nizomi`	`O_o`
`23:38.08`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`gigantic game-crashing, world-slowing-down databases of everything`
`23:38.19`	`Kirov`	`You can look at Questhelper and Tourguide to see some examples.`
`23:38.49`	`Kirov`	`For tourguide there's a surprisingly small amount of information required for each quest.`
`23:38.51`	`Nizomi`	`well i qh has like 50 files in main folder, pretty much confuses me xD`
`23:39.32`	`Kirov`	`Carbonite and Questhelper both use a bit more crazy databases, but they still don't use all that much memory in comparison to what they use by just running.`
`23:41.12`	`Nizomi`	`hm`
`23:41.23`	`Nizomi`	`has tourguide even got a database?`
`23:41.29`	`Kirov`	`Yes`
`23:41.56`	`Nizomi`	`can't find it xD`
`23:41.56`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`I think tourguide just keeps track of what quests you've done?`
`23:42.01`	`Kirov`	`Something like Sellfish or Auctioneer use a lot more memory for the databases.`
`23:42.21`	`Kirov`	`Think about how many more items there are in the game vs. quests.`
`23:42.21`	`End`	`tourguide is basically a list of positions and quests`
`23:43.02`	`Kirov`	`And I use Lightheaded which is one of the more insane databases of any addon (though it's smart about loading smaller chunks)`
`23:43.24`	`Nizomi`	`i wonder if qh can be modded to be a carbonite look-a-like xD`
`23:43.39`	`Kirov`	`That works with Cart 3?`
`23:43.40`	`Kirov`	`sure`
`23:43.50`	`Nizomi`	`yeh qh itself works with cart3`
`23:44.09`	`Nizomi`	`but i'd like a separated map`
`23:44.42`	`Nizomi`	`i just don't wanna deal with all the minor stuff (well minor when the target is to get a carbonite look-a-like)`
`23:44.47`	`Nizomi`	`like building the db, etc`
`23:45.17`	`*** join/#wowuidev Bibi (n=Bibi@AVelizy-151-1-2-90.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`23:45.31`	`Amarande`	`ok, when did moonkin go from being oomkin to pwnkin?`
`23:45.50`	`*** join/#wowuidev drexore (n=drexore@redeye.xs4all.nl)`
`23:45.58`	`Amarande`	`I may have to get a dps caster set for my druid just to be able to do moonkin form at times`
`23:46.31`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`er, 3.0... when, you know, all the other major changes were made?`
`23:47.37`	`Nizomi`	`how did they even build their db?`
`23:47.47`	`Nizomi`	`open up every single q on wowhead or somethign and type in the data?`
`23:47.49`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`manual labor`
`23:48.03`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`small chinese children`
`23:48.07`	`Nizomi`	`lol`
`23:49.19`	`*** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (n=MikeNGoS@189.176.146.159)`
`23:53.42`	`foxlit`	`Meh, nah.`
`23:53.42`	`Shiibot`	`New WoW-US Server Alert: February 6, 2009, 03:50PM PSTEmergency Rolling Restart:`
`23:53.42`	`Shiibot`	`We are currently performing emergency rolling restarts on all U.S. and Oceanic realms. We anticipate that each realm will be down for no more than 15 minutes. The overall process will last approximately 2 hours. Thank you for your patience.`
`23:53.42`	`Shiibot`	`February 5, 2009, 10:10PM PST`
`23:53.42`	`Shiibot`	`New WoW-EU Server Alert: There will be rolling restarts of all realms, starting at approximately 05:00, Paris time (CET). Each realm will receive a 15 minute notice prior to being restarted.`
`23:53.57`	`foxlit`	`3.0 is awesome, of course, but that spec wasn't too bad even in 2.3`
`23:54.34`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`foxlit: true, it just took a while for people to come around to it`
`23:54.40`	`Amarande`	`I'm glad I took LW on my druid, I suppose :)`
`23:54.53`	`Amarande`	`otherwise, it could take me even longer to get together 3-4 different sets of gear once I hit 80`
`23:55.07`	`Amarande`	`let's see ... tanking set, healing set, caster dps set`
`23:55.19`	`Amarande`	`maybe feral dps set, but I can probably deal decent kitty dps in tanking set`
`23:55.26`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`not realy`
`23:55.32`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`s/l/ll/`
`23:55.34`	`Amarande`	`also groups seem to be more interested in ranged dps than melee dps these days`
`23:55.45`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`only the shitty ones`
`23:56.55`	`*** join/#wowuidev cbreak (n=cbreak@217-162-238-189.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`23:57.20`	`Amarande`	`Night: and ones with greedy tanks, but that doesn't really affect rogues and druids as much`
`23:57.30`	`Nizomi`	`O_o`
`23:57.38`	`Amarande`	`apparently, there are tanks these days that will only tank instances if they have dibs on every plate drop`
`23:57.39`	`Nizomi`	`aq-gates open on new realms, lol :D`
`23:57.42`	`NightHawkTheSane`	`so, like i said, only the shitty ones`
`23:58.09`	`Amarande`	`probably pally healers with the same attitude, although since spellpower plate is now pretty much only any use for pally healers ...`

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