| 00:00.12 | Legorol | If I want to upload a wotlk-compatible version of an addon to wowi, do i have to create a fresh project for the wotlk version, or can i somehow tag one of the files on the regular project page as wotlk compatible? |
| 00:02.29 | Amarande | Legorol, does EquipCompare really NEED much of anything from the LUA language anyway? :) |
| 00:02.36 | krka_ | Amarande: Lua is actually a portuguese word and it means "moon" |
| 00:02.47 | Legorol | Amarande: actually yes |
| 00:02.49 | Amarande | I mean, "what item am I mousing over?" "tooltip it." "what item is equipped in the slot that goes on?" "tooltip it." |
| 00:03.01 | Legorol | nah it does a lot more than that due to legacy reasons |
| 00:03.13 | Legorol | but it should be rewritten at some point |
| 00:04.50 | Legorol | Amarande: EquipCompare was written long before Gametooltip:GetItem() was introduced. So there is a lot of code in there to detect the presence of an active GameTooltip and to parse its contents. |
| 00:05.30 | Legorol | Also it works off of a few other tooltips, such as the ItemRefTooltip |
| 00:05.51 | Legorol | But since it "just works" still, I haven't rewritten it yet. If it ain't broke, why fix it |
| 00:06.43 | Amarande | also, if you're anything like me, you have about 40 zillion addons that all alter the item tooltip |
| 00:06.51 | Amarande | auctioneer, arkinventory, etc. |
| 00:06.52 | ScytheBlade1 | lol @ http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10638058347&sid=1&pageNo=2#35 |
| 00:07.38 | Legorol | Amarande: that doesn't interfere with EquipCompare, and I do plan to rewrite it to use GameTooltip:GetItem() one day, which should work even in the presence of other addons |
| 00:08.43 | *** join/#wowuidev batrick (n=batrick@c-68-35-67-18.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 00:08.49 | Amarande | btw, is there ever going to be a fix to the epic failness of the interaction between auctioneer and arkinventory? |
| 00:09.01 | Amarande | the font one, mainly |
| 00:11.27 | Legorol | when was Lua 5.1 introduced? it was with 2.0, right? |
| 00:12.18 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 00:12.36 | Legorol | Looks like EquipCompare survived the whole of Burning Crusade without having to rewrite anything, with the exception of patch 2.1 where I had to add some code to disable Blizz's default comparison tooltips :o) |
| 00:13.13 | Arrowmaster | it still supports some characterviewer mod right? |
| 00:13.20 | Legorol | I can only attribute that to my excellent coding design.. almost two years and I haven't had to change a thing in the code |
| 00:13.32 | Legorol | in theory yes, Arrowmaster, although I haven't tested that interaction in a long time |
| 00:13.40 | Arrowmaster | Legorol: equipcompare is yours? |
| 00:13.41 | Legorol | I don't even use CharactersViewer anymore and I think it's not being maintained |
| 00:13.46 | Legorol | yes Arrowmaster |
| 00:13.53 | Legorol | not to be confused with EQCompare |
| 00:14.01 | Arrowmaster | gut it and replace it with tekKompare imho |
| 00:14.09 | Amarande | ah, that's why I'm confusing things |
| 00:14.17 | Amarande | I use EQCompare |
| 00:14.21 | Arrowmaster | EQCompare is the one im on a cruade to kill |
| 00:14.24 | Amarande | which seems to still work just fine, too |
| 00:14.34 | Amarande | it works, why should I replace it :S |
| 00:14.36 | Arrowmaster | EQCompare is worse than EquipCompare probably |
| 00:14.47 | Legorol | Arrowmaster: if you want to replace it with tekKompare, use tekKompare ;-) |
| 00:14.53 | Arrowmaster | i do =D |
| 00:14.53 | Legorol | I'll be happily using my own mod thank you |
| 00:15.22 | Legorol | EQCompare is an afterthought, some things are a bit better written, but it seemed like it was hashed together |
| 00:15.29 | Arrowmaster | that reminds me, i need to make the EQCompare repo on wowace 'accidently' private |
| 00:15.52 | Amarande | Arrowmaster, that would be a bad idea |
| 00:15.58 | Arrowmaster | no it wouldnt |
| 00:16.00 | Legorol | EquipCompare is the only one of the three that has a developer API though :o) |
| 00:16.03 | Arrowmaster | its a dead mod |
| 00:16.03 | Amarande | WowAce has enough black marks on its rep as it is |
| 00:16.05 | Arrowmaster | with no dev |
| 00:16.14 | Arrowmaster | oh your right |
| 00:16.18 | Arrowmaster | ill just delete it then |
| 00:16.35 | Amarande | let's see, first of all the whole fiasco with "wowaceupdater" that requires people to add sites to their 'trusted sites' list and all that jazz |
| 00:16.45 | Arrowmaster | huh? |
| 00:16.49 | Legorol | huh? |
| 00:16.57 | Amarande | second of all, the fact that I'm sure once wowace goes to curseforge, people will get pissy about the site interface |
| 00:17.04 | Arrowmaster | you were suppost to add files.wowace.com to your 'untrusted sites' list |
| 00:17.10 | Legorol | Amarande: a) it already has b) wowace is not going to curseforge |
| 00:17.18 | Arrowmaster | not trusted |
| 00:17.30 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: last time I tried to use the WoWAceUpdater, I was told I had to add sites to my "trusted" list in Windows |
| 00:17.35 | Amarande | why I should have to do this, I'm not exactly sure |
| 00:17.42 | Arrowmaster | when was that? |
| 00:18.02 | Legorol | Amarande: strange, I'm not a great fan of WAU, but that's one thing I didn't encounter nor had a complaint about |
| 00:18.04 | Arrowmaster | was it after the ads were disabled? |
| 00:18.14 | Amarande | Arrow: I forget exactly when ... it was sometime in the spring |
| 00:18.15 | *** join/#wowuidev JoshBork1 (n=Josh@WoWUIDev/WoWInterface/LegoBlock/joshborke) |
| 00:18.20 | Arrowmaster | because when the ads were enabled, adding it to trusted would have been extremely bad |
| 00:19.10 | Amarande | I remember at the time it had ads, and the wowace staff seemed to be making their first priority to make sure that everyone was receiving ads properly rather than making sure that everyone was receiving addons properly :| |
| 00:19.53 | Arrowmaster | lol |
| 00:19.55 | Arrowmaster | you know nothing |
| 00:20.12 | Arrowmaster | WAU was never really even maintained by any 'wowace staff' |
| 00:25.09 | Amarande | who was it made by, then? |
| 00:25.14 | Amarande | or was it actually a virus? |
| 00:26.55 | Legorol | it was a pornware! pornware is software installed on your PC that steals all your pron collection in a clandestine way and uploads it to the author |
| 00:27.16 | *** join/#wowuidev |Yssaril| (n=Yssaril@adsl-99-141-134-74.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:27.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-67-246-45-198.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 00:27.49 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 00:28.56 | Dashkal | ewwww, I wouldn't want to see the porn habits of my software's users... |
| 00:29.07 | Lopeppeppy | .... eeew. |
| 00:29.09 | Corrodias | really? because i can tell you all about it without even using your software |
| 00:30.00 | Amarande | Dashkal, imagine what it must be like to work at Doubleclick |
| 00:30.01 | Amarande | heh |
| 00:30.16 | Dashkal | oh god... no thank you |
| 00:32.40 | morkii | does anyone know if there is a way to make a bar in macaroon that only shows in pvp like trinity? |
| 00:33.15 | Amarande | and would someone tell me how it took Blizzard FOUR YEARS to come up with 'auto loot mail' :| |
| 00:33.42 | Neuro_Medivh | Amarande: they were trying to fix Vanish first |
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| 00:40.48 | Shirik|AFK | ~seen Slakah1 |
| 00:40.51 | purl | slakah1 <n=Slakah@5acd436e.bb.sky.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 27d 3h 15m 5s ago, saying: 'Lyn: and a hell of a lot cheaper'. |
| 00:45.33 | Legorol | mmm, I just got alerted to the fact that wowmatrix is in fact redistributing EquipCompare in a manner which violates EquipCompare's license terms |
| 00:47.27 | Neuro_Medivh | is wowmatrix that silly site that tries to be an addon distro by stealing? |
| 00:47.37 | Lopeppeppy | Obviously. :) |
| 00:49.01 | Neuro_Medivh | does it actually host the addons, or does it download them from wowi/curse? |
| 00:49.12 | Arrowmaster | it direct links to wowi/curse |
| 00:49.44 | Arrowmaster | and killed auctioneers site a while back by direct linking the main mirror instead of the loadbalanced url |
| 00:51.09 | Neuro_Medivh | well, bandwidth issues aside, assuming it has no malware in it, it doesn't actually sound that bad |
| 00:51.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (n=Sixen@12.210.157.250) |
| 00:51.50 | Dashkal | The bandwidth issue is much of what makes it evil. |
| 00:51.57 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 00:52.09 | Arrowmaster | its leeching extreme amounts of bandwidth |
| 00:54.06 | Legorol | bandwidth is just one aspect |
| 00:54.16 | Legorol | that's the problem the host providers are facing |
| 00:54.37 | Legorol | from the authors' point of view, the problem is that no mention of the authors' name is given anywhere, and no URL is displayed for an addon's official site |
| 00:55.19 | Legorol | my addon's license specifically states: "If you distribute or re-host this AddOn, either in a compilation or by itself, you must include a link to the AddOn's official page" |
| 00:55.33 | Legorol | which they are violating |
| 00:56.18 | Nechckn | the thing is... it was coming to the site, downloading every version of "everything" we had, eventhough they were getting "suites" containing all of the individual pieces already. So it was a total lack of any sort of common courtesy, not to mention going around the mirrors.. causing unneeded fees and the other, pre-existing issues you are going over right now. |
| 00:56.54 | Neuro_Medivh | Legorol: Just playing Devil's Advocate, but technically they are neither distributing nor re-hosting |
| 00:58.09 | Nechckn | that's debatable, though - about the re-hosting |
| 00:58.46 | Neuro_Medivh | nah.. they are not hosting the file, they are merely downloading it from an existing host (from what I understand) |
| 00:58.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (n=Jamash@75-25-130-215.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:58.57 | Neuro_Medivh | I mean, Firefox or IE do that |
| 00:59.05 | Nechckn | if the person sits, staring at their ads the whole time, then.. from the end-user pov, that is "where" they are getting it. |
| 00:59.24 | Neuro_Medivh | and if I bookmark the direct link? |
| 00:59.28 | Esine | they are merely linking to the content, it's not illegal to link to something in public www |
| 00:59.33 | Neuro_Medivh | is Firefox now rehosting it? |
| 00:59.40 | Nechckn | who said illegal? |
| 00:59.58 | Esine | well, it's not like you need a permission to link to a website either |
| 01:01.37 | Corrodias | there may be something illegal about directly linking to files hosted on other people's servers when they explicitly instruct visitors not to do that |
| 01:01.40 | Nechckn | Firefox is not making money off of your use, in the same way. It's different. If they provided a tool that did the same thing with no ads, then I'd not like it so much, but have much less of an issue. |
| 01:01.42 | Corrodias | "bandwidth theft" |
| 01:01.54 | Neuro_Medivh | I completely agree that while not illegal, it's a gross violation of etiquette |
| 01:02.35 | Esine | it may be immoral but that doesn't make it something you absolutely cannot do |
| 01:02.41 | Nechckn | Hence why laws need to be made spelling out what is what... because "counting on companies to do the right thing" *obviously* is not working. |
| 01:02.45 | Neuro_Medivh | Can't you disable direct linking, like certain img hosts do? |
| 01:03.00 | Corrodias | check referrer? could work |
| 01:03.29 | Nechckn | We did that, explicitly now- if you try to direct link == no workie |
| 01:03.44 | Neuro_Medivh | I'd really hate for wowi to have to go to one of those "please enter the code word you see into the box" thigns |
| 01:03.55 | Legorol | Neuro_Medivh: i understand your devil's advocate standpoint, but actually i'd examine the "distribute" part more than the "re-host" part |
| 01:04.07 | Legorol | they are clearly not re-hosting, however they are providing a tool for distributing |
| 01:04.18 | Neuro_Medivh | Legorol: So is Firefox, or IE |
| 01:04.25 | Legorol | there's quite a difference between a generic web browser which allows the *user* to follow a link of their choosing, |
| 01:04.42 | Legorol | and a tool with a built-in set of links whose sole purpose is to direct the user to those links |
| 01:04.53 | Legorol | I think these are shades of grey |
| 01:05.30 | Neuro_Medivh | at least they don't strip author credit out of the addon, like that other site did |
| 01:05.42 | Legorol | that's little consolation |
| 01:05.50 | Legorol | the endusers of wowmatrix never see the author name mentioned |
| 01:05.59 | Legorol | the only way they will encounter it for some addons is if they climb into the .toc |
| 01:06.17 | Lopeppeppy | So when they have legitimate comments or complaints, they cannot get them to the author, and the author never nears of issues. |
| 01:06.41 | Legorol | I'm with Neuro_Medivh on that a lot of it may not be illegal and merely grossly unethical. |
| 01:06.43 | Lopeppeppy | This creates a situation where something might be bugged, the author never knows, and their addon suffers a serious reputation drop. |
| 01:07.09 | Legorol | Lopeppeppy: I think eveyrone currently in this conversation understands these points, even Neuro_Medivh |
| 01:07.23 | Neuro_Medivh | Again, on the Devil's Advocate side, you could make an argument that in order to use WoWMatrix, said user almost certainly would have had to go to the original site |
| 01:07.27 | Legorol | The point about comparing wowmatrix to a web browser is valid, and I think this is where you'd need a court of law to make a decision. |
| 01:07.47 | Legorol | nope Neuro_Medivh, as wowmatrix provides a list of currently not installed addons |
| 01:08.00 | Lopeppeppy | Neuro, I bet I can look up wowmatrix, download an addon, and never see the original download page. |
| 01:08.05 | Neuro_Medivh | Yeah, but come on, no one uses an addon without knowing something about it |
| 01:08.12 | Legorol | not true |
| 01:08.27 | Legorol | many people will open wowmatrix, see a description and go "that sounds cool, let me try" and click to install |
| 01:08.49 | Legorol | besides, this is merely the etiquette part |
| 01:08.52 | Lopeppeppy | I've even done that, and I'm reasonably intelligent |
| 01:08.53 | Neuro_Medivh | yeah |
| 01:08.59 | Neuro_Medivh | the real bitch is the bandwidth |
| 01:09.09 | Legorol | that's an interesting legal part |
| 01:09.19 | Legorol | and that's where the comparison to webbrowsers comes into play |
| 01:09.20 | Neuro_Medivh | and might even be actionable |
| 01:09.28 | Legorol | consider this: |
| 01:09.36 | Neuro_Medivh | there are a lot more laws on the books regarding DOS attacks |
| 01:09.38 | Legorol | i can write a one-line shell script with wget my.favourite.url |
| 01:09.44 | Legorol | i can then give this shell script to anyone i like |
| 01:09.53 | Legorol | and there it starts getting grey |
| 01:10.31 | Neuro_Medivh | If you could cast it as a DDoS app, you might get more traction |
| 01:10.57 | Legorol | The big question is: at what point does wowmatrix stop being a convenience tool/dumbed down webbrowser and start being something more malicious and actionable. |
| 01:11.14 | Neuro_Medivh | because I believe these days companies have to make a good-faith effort to not unduly hinder a company's website |
| 01:11.23 | Legorol | here is another one: |
| 01:11.39 | Legorol | what if I wrote a greasemonkey script that blurs out author names on wowinterface, on every page you visit |
| 01:11.50 | Legorol | including project pages, download page, forums etc. |
| 01:12.02 | Legorol | i then distribute this script as a convenience tool for people who don't like to see author names |
| 01:12.33 | Legorol | grossly unethical of course, but what about legalities |
| 01:12.35 | Neuro_Medivh | I'd be willing to bet that new laws re: DDoS would be applicable |
| 01:12.49 | Neuro_Medivh | To the internets! |
| 01:12.54 | Legorol | hehe |
| 01:14.10 | Neuro_Medivh | HMMM |
| 01:14.19 | Legorol | I think that if it came to trial, you should be able to argue that the wowmatrix authors are doing more than just providing a dumb webbrowser, and they are in some form distributing addons |
| 01:14.26 | Legorol | even if they are not hosting it themselves |
| 01:14.35 | Neuro_Medivh | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Ethics |
| 01:14.51 | Neuro_Medivh | not sure what the IAB is, if it has any legal standing |
| 01:15.21 | Neuro_Medivh | but wowmatrix would be in violation of article three, wasting resources |
| 01:16.50 | Legorol | It's a very interesting ethical/legal question actually: "is it allowed to create a tool which purposefully displays only parts of websites, instead of presenting those sites as a whole, as intended by their authors" |
| 01:17.11 | Legorol | that's what it all comes down to ultimately |
| 01:17.18 | Legorol | linking to direct download links falls under that |
| 01:17.52 | Amarande | Legorol: unfortunately, it's one that has to be answered 'yes' :| |
| 01:17.54 | Legorol | Let's all blame HTTP technology which allows you to downloads bits of a website on their own |
| 01:17.55 | Amarande | to avoid worse |
| 01:18.00 | *** join/#wowuidev schnoggo_ (n=root@75.146.147.129) |
| 01:18.08 | Legorol | Amarande: yes indeed |
| 01:18.10 | Amarande | such as causing pop-up suppressors and the like to be banned |
| 01:18.20 | Legorol | yup |
| 01:18.58 | Legorol | Ultimately, the only thing a site can do to limit bandwidth hogging is to have some sort of authentication mechanism |
| 01:19.08 | Legorol | it doesn't even have to be a login-based thing |
| 01:19.29 | Legorol | you could for example grant a given IP a 5 minute right to access download link X provided they have requested page Y |
| 01:19.40 | Legorol | but that wouldn't solve much either |
| 01:20.27 | Legorol | Hmm, I just thought of something worrying. |
| 01:20.36 | Legorol | Consider a WoW AddOn hosted as a single zip file. |
| 01:21.00 | Legorol | Author is thorough, and includes a copy of the license terms of the AddOn in a text file in the zip file. |
| 01:21.30 | Legorol | However, if an automated tool downloads/extracts and installs the AddOn, the user may never open that file, and therefore can claim that he never accepted the license. |
| 01:21.44 | Amarande | ok ... Blizzard, you suck, infinitely. |
| 01:21.48 | Legorol | lol |
| 01:22.00 | Amarande | are they really having Northrend raids reset Wednesday rather than Tuesday on US realms? |
| 01:22.13 | Amarande | that's what the calendar on the PTR says |
| 01:22.22 | Legorol | i wouldn't read much into the PTR |
| 01:22.28 | Legorol | but if they did that, i'd be very happy :) |
| 01:22.31 | Lopeppeppy | That could be just for PTR. |
| 01:22.35 | Legorol | make all raids reset the same day everywhere in the world |
| 01:22.43 | Amarande | Legorol: then it should be Tuesday, not Wednesday |
| 01:22.49 | Legorol | tuesday is fine too |
| 01:22.54 | Amarande | one, it's been established as Tuesday for the majority of players for a long time now |
| 01:22.55 | Legorol | although wednesday is better |
| 01:23.04 | Legorol | hm, why tuesday? |
| 01:23.06 | Legorol | and why majority? |
| 01:23.06 | Amarande | two, that basically ruins my chance of ever getting a two-day raid group, EVER. |
| 01:23.12 | Legorol | are US players the majority of WoW players? |
| 01:23.18 | Amarande | who's gonna want to do a Tues/Wed raid group when raids reset on Wednesday morning? |
| 01:23.28 | Amarande | speaking of which, what happens when raid reset time comes while you're in it? lol |
| 01:23.36 | Legorol | you get ported out |
| 01:23.36 | Lopeppeppy | You get kicked. |
| 01:23.44 | Lopeppeppy | Try it with a heroic and see. |
| 01:23.46 | Amarande | actually, that's another reason to keep it Tuesday, then |
| 01:23.55 | Amarande | makes raid reset coincide with server reset |
| 01:23.56 | Legorol | why tuesday? beyond your personal schedule |
| 01:24.04 | Amarande | so that becomes a non-issue |
| 01:24.06 | Legorol | only on US servers, Amarande |
| 01:24.18 | Legorol | and I bet that out of the 10 mil WoW subscribers, US players don't form the majority |
| 01:24.34 | Amarande | Leg: there's more EU folks than US? |
| 01:24.39 | Gnarfoz | yes, there is |
| 01:24.49 | Legorol | i don't think there is, but there is more EU+Asian than US |
| 01:24.52 | Gnarfoz | also, there's even MORE asian folks and theirs is thursday or something |
| 01:24.54 | Gnarfoz | there is... |
| 01:24.57 | Lopeppeppy | Asia and Oceania in there too. |
| 01:24.58 | Legorol | so going by Tuesday because it's the US one is not an argument |
| 01:25.06 | Amarande | actually ... |
| 01:25.11 | Amarande | come to think of it, maybe I misread this |
| 01:25.34 | Legorol | there is an argument for resetting raid instances during maintenance period |
| 01:25.34 | Amarande | the calendar seems to suggest that raids reset -daily- now, actually |
| 01:25.48 | Lopeppeppy | ... interesting, and not too likely. :) |
| 01:25.49 | Legorol | aye, in beta they do i think |
| 01:26.02 | Legorol | there is further argument to stagger maintenance days in different regions |
| 01:26.12 | Legorol | so there is some argument to be said about different reset days for different regions |
| 01:26.17 | Amarande | Didn't they say something also about instances being short again in general in WOTLK? |
| 01:26.17 | Legorol | oth, that screws with PvE races |
| 01:26.34 | Legorol | god, please no |
| 01:26.35 | Legorol | not 25-mans |
| 01:26.39 | Amarande | maybe they plan now that each raid is meant to be done in an evening? |
| 01:26.41 | Legorol | i think 1 week for 25-mans worked nicely |
| 01:26.52 | Legorol | and 3 days for 10-mans is a nice period |
| 01:27.28 | Legorol | even if they plan for 25-mans to be short and doable in a day (which i strongly doubt, as they wouldn't want top guilds to farm them daily), |
| 01:27.34 | Legorol | it would so screw up your learning period |
| 01:28.02 | Legorol | What would be ideal (damn, why didn't i suggest this before) is: 3-day reset period which is optionally extendable to 6 |
| 01:28.06 | Legorol | or 7 |
| 01:28.19 | Legorol | so the raid leader can "lock" the ID so that it doesn't reset |
| 01:38.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Antiarc1 (n=Antiarc@wsip-70-184-82-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 01:45.51 | Thunder_Child | i need something to watch |
| 01:47.18 | Shirik | I'll show you something to watch |
| 01:47.26 | Thunder_Child | thats redundant |
| 01:47.40 | Shirik | not necessarily |
| 01:47.52 | Shirik | Just because I show it to you doesn't mean you should watch it |
| 01:47.55 | |pez| | Biden / Palin thingie is sort of halway interesting |
| 01:48.02 | Shirik | Example: Two Girls One Cup |
| 01:49.19 | Lopeppeppy | Shirik! |
| 01:49.40 | Shirik | ? |
| 01:49.46 | Shirik | for the record, I never watched that |
| 01:49.56 | Amarande | I'm still not even sure what the hell that is, Shirik |
| 01:50.00 | Shirik | neither am I |
| 01:50.02 | Shirik | but I refuse to watch it |
| 01:50.07 | Amarande | same here |
| 01:50.13 | |pez| | it's... not really pleasent. |
| 01:51.08 | Thunder_Child | it two women eating their own feces |
| 01:51.13 | Thunder_Child | it's |
| 01:51.15 | Thunder_Child | more or less |
| 01:51.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 01:51.29 | Amarande | *shakes head* |
| 01:52.34 | Lopeppeppy | ... eew. |
| 01:52.40 | Lopeppeppy | Guys, I was eating dinner right up to that. |
| 01:52.52 | Lopeppeppy | Shirik, I'm glad you haven't seen it. Restores my faith in mankind |
| 01:53.13 | Thunder_Child | then you fail at understanding people |
| 01:53.20 | Dashkal | did I miss something amusing? |
| 01:54.24 | Shirik | Lopeppeppy, if I'm all mankind has left, we're screwed |
| 01:54.53 | Thunder_Child | actually if you are the last of mankind, YOU would be the one getting screwed |
| 01:55.03 | Shirik | >< |
| 01:55.22 | Sargeras | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:55.26 | Sargeras | oops |
| 01:56.12 | Amarande | Lopeppeppy, I can eat dinner through damn near anything |
| 01:56.25 | Amarande | I've eaten dinner while watching Alien, heh |
| 01:56.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Slackwise_ (i=Lance@c-98-206-241-83.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 01:56.49 | Amarande | or X-Files, or CSI, or any of a number of other shows that have gross scenes |
| 01:57.02 | Amarande | I'm ... jaded |
| 01:57.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Atriace (n=omnizeta@188.118.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 01:57.39 | Atriace | ~poke cladhaire |
| 01:57.39 | purl | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind cladhaire, pokes cladhaire repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 01:58.08 | Lopeppeppy | Amarande, I can as well. However, I'm dog-sick and just the thought makes me want to barf. |
| 01:58.10 | Atriace | ... a bit excessive, but that works. |
| 01:58.31 | Lopeppeppy | Shirk, you be nice to yourself or you're in trouble. |
| 01:58.44 | Atriace | ~seen cladhaire |
| 01:58.45 | purl | cladhaire is currently on #wowprogramming (1d 7h 19m 4s) #infobot (1d 7h 19m 4s) #wowuidev (1d 7h 19m 4s) #wowace (1d 7h 19m 4s) #curseforge (1d 7h 19m 4s). Has said a total of 3 messages. Is idling for 1d 14h 38m 25s, last said: 'thats ridic'. |
| 01:59.09 | Shirik | Sorry, I have a pretty cruel view of humanity myself right now :) |
| 01:59.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaelten (n=kaelten@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/WoWIFA/CurseStaff/kaelten) |
| 01:59.22 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 01:59.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: you IPv6 enabled atm? |
| 01:59.51 | Shirik | let me check |
| 02:00.07 | Shirik | I forget |
| 02:00.28 | ScytheBlade1 | http://[2001:470:d82b:ffff:217:31ff:fec4:919a]:631/ |
| 02:00.32 | ScytheBlade1 | That work? |
| 02:00.42 | kd3 | heh, xchat handled that link just sfine |
| 02:00.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110| (i=Matrix11@pD957F281.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:00.47 | kd3 | too bad I don't have an ipv6 link here |
| 02:01.49 | Adys | could someone give me an advice? I'm looking for a lightweight addon to improve the questlog. better sorting, or bigger size, or anything better than the default UI |
| 02:02.04 | Adys | wrath compatible would be great :)) |
| 02:02.13 | Adys | stupid keyboard |
| 02:02.35 | ScytheBlade1 | kd3: that'd be my CUPS daemon... I totally just realized that anyone with an IPv6 link can print to my printer |
| 02:02.38 | ScytheBlade1 | "whoops" |
| 02:02.46 | Shirik | "Though the site seems valid, the browser was unable to establish a connection." |
| 02:03.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Your IPv6 is partially working then! |
| 02:03.07 | ScytheBlade1 | If it was fully working, you could print to my printer! |
| 02:03.07 | Adys | Though the site seems valid, the browser was unable to establish a connection. |
| 02:03.12 | Shirik | ROFL |
| 02:03.13 | Adys | and ipv6 is disabled here |
| 02:03.29 | Shirik | Pinging 2001:470:d82b:ffff:217:31ff:fec4:919a with 32 bytes of data: |
| 02:03.29 | Shirik | PING: transmit failed, error code 1231. |
| 02:03.30 | Shirik | wtf? |
| 02:03.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh right, I passed the IP and not the DNS, so yeah that's what it'll say |
| 02:03.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Your ipv6 is broke |
| 02:03.42 | Shirik | fail |
| 02:03.43 | Shirik | sec |
| 02:04.43 | Amarande | and by jaded, I mean that I consider the Riding Crop to be the awesomest item in WoW, too |
| 02:05.06 | Amarande | heh |
| 02:05.23 | Esine | Amarande, and soon you'll need to have ten of them, one for each mount you possess \o/ |
| 02:05.52 | Amarande | Esine: when did that get added? |
| 02:06.03 | Amarande | besides, I thought the Crop didn't work at all after 70 |
| 02:06.12 | Esine | well that too |
| 02:06.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|zZz (n=skullsho@83.120.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 02:06.24 | Esine | but isn't it so that items affecting mount speed will be bound to the mount itself? |
| 02:06.25 | Esine | like enchants |
| 02:06.35 | Lopeppeppy | Fishie, why are you sleeping?!? |
| 02:06.38 | Shirik|zZz | I think I know what it is |
| 02:06.38 | Esine | .. or that's what I heard. Or maybe it's old information? |
| 02:06.42 | Guest45728 | my router |
| 02:06.49 | ScytheBlade1 | hates you |
| 02:06.55 | ScytheBlade1 | You're connected via v4 |
| 02:06.57 | Lopeppeppy | Mmm.... routers can be unhappy creatures if you don't feed them often enough |
| 02:06.59 | Guest45728 | I know |
| 02:07.09 | Esine | Amarande, has that been changed? |
| 02:07.13 | ScytheBlade1 | Lopeppeppy: feed them what? I've never fed mine :( |
| 02:07.30 | Amarande | Esine: "has no effect for players above level 70" last time I checked on the PTR |
| 02:07.58 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 02:08.00 | Shirik | Anyway |
| 02:08.05 | Shirik | I used to connect to calkins, I can't anymore |
| 02:08.08 | ScytheBlade1 | ah |
| 02:08.16 | Shirik | I think it's my router |
| 02:08.18 | cbreak | I used a teleport scroll today. Ended up in elwyn instead of valgrade. |
| 02:08.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Guess you don't get to abuse my printer then! |
| 02:08.20 | Shirik | it'st he only change I've made |
| 02:09.44 | Lopeppeppy | ScytheBlade1, my router and cable modem prefer tuna fish sandwiches. Which I think they share with my cat, as she always looks satisfied too. |
| 02:09.57 | Shirik | I need that too |
| 02:10.00 | Shirik | I want ipv6 back |
| 02:11.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Lopeppeppy: all I know is that my cable modem hates me while my router loves me. Though admittedly I feed my router software updates.. |
| 02:12.55 | Lopeppeppy | Why do you not feed your cable modem too? |
| 02:13.04 | Lopeppeppy | Jealousy is a bitter bitter pill |
| 02:13.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Yes, yes it is, as evidenced by it sometimes dying on me |
| 02:14.30 | Lopeppeppy | You know your problem. You obviously have to work on your relationship with your cable modem, before it gets fed up and walks out on you. |
| 02:14.46 | ScytheBlade1 | That's why it's rented :) |
| 02:15.01 | ScytheBlade1 | If it starts complaining, I boot em' out and bring a new one in |
| 02:15.12 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 02:15.17 | Lopeppeppy | ..... |
| 02:15.20 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 02:16.07 | ScytheBlade1 | I abuse my cable modems, it's true |
| 02:16.38 | Amarande | OFFICE SPACE! |
| 02:16.38 | Neuro_Medivh | so, your router is the love of your life, but the cable modems are just cheap tawdry flings? |
| 02:16.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Neuro_Medivh: more or less. |
| 02:17.09 | Lopeppeppy | Tsk tsk. Faithless creature |
| 02:17.10 | Neuro_Medivh | just make sure you use a firewall, or you could get a virus from your modem |
| 02:17.21 | Neuro_Medivh | *nudge nudge* |
| 02:17.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh trust me, there are firewalls in place |
| 02:17.26 | Neuro_Medivh | *wink wink* |
| 02:17.27 | Lopeppeppy | Mmm-hmm. |
| 02:17.46 | Shirik | qqqq |
| 02:17.49 | Shirik | My router: "BCM5354KFBG chipset VxWorks OS with non-replaceable Internal Antennas. Not yet compatible with any 3rd party firmware." |
| 02:17.58 | Neuro_Medivh | so, no three-ways |
| 02:17.59 | Shirik | No ipv6 yet :( |
| 02:18.14 | Lopeppeppy | *snark* |
| 02:18.31 | ScytheBlade1 | At least I'm not as bad as Shirik, though |
| 02:18.40 | Shirik | !kick #wowuidev ScytheBlade1 Leave Lopeppeppy alone |
| 02:18.42 | Neuro_Medivh | what, using bots? |
| 02:18.43 | Shirik | er |
| 02:18.46 | Shirik | !quote kick #wowuidev ScytheBlade1 Leave Lopeppeppy alone |
| 02:18.46 | *** kick/#wowuidev [ScytheBlade1!n=Shiibot@WoWUIDev/Nospam] by Shiibot (Leave) |
| 02:18.47 | batbot | Shirik, kick has not said anything with your given pattern. |
| 02:18.50 | Shirik | quiet you |
| 02:18.58 | *** join/#wowuidev ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 02:19.01 | ScytheBlade1 | ~failrik |
| 02:19.02 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 02:19.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik abuses his routers until they lose their memory, and then reprograms them to do his bidding |
| 02:19.33 | Lopeppeppy | *laughs, and then dissolves into coughing* |
| 02:19.36 | Neuro_Medivh | hmm, hard to make innuendo out of that without it turning really really creepy |
| 02:19.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Neuro_Medivh: that's the idea :D |
| 02:20.21 | Lopeppeppy | Too early for more meds, you guys are eeeevil |
| 02:20.24 | Neuro_Medivh | I have the best of both worlds... my router and modem are one in the same. |
| 02:20.28 | ScytheBlade1 | I do what I can |
| 02:21.25 | *** join/#wowuidev cladhair_ (n=jnwhiteh@94-192-60-10.zone6.bethere.co.uk) |
| 02:21.31 | Neuro_Medivh | so, is the Palin-Biden debate as boring as it sounds? |
| 02:21.52 | Shirik | Well Biden's a bit of a loud mouth |
| 02:21.55 | cbreak | did they decide on the 700 billions yet? |
| 02:21.56 | Shirik | I think it should be entertaining |
| 02:22.23 | Lopeppeppy | Drink every time she says "maverick" |
| 02:22.27 | Lopeppeppy | It will be twice as entertaining |
| 02:22.31 | kd3 | lope; I'd have finished off the bottle by now |
| 02:22.45 | Neuro_Medivh | shrug, won't do any good... most people, despite what they say, picked their candidate long ago, and no amount of talking by either side will make them change their pre-conceived notions |
| 02:23.23 | Neuro_Medivh | no Obama supporter is going to go "Oh, wait, I want McCain now!" , same with McCain supporters. USA is far too polarized now |
| 02:23.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Malgayne (n=caseymon@69.107.249.83) |
| 02:23.29 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Malgayne] by ChanServ |
| 02:23.34 | Lopeppeppy | kd3, if I weren't so sick, a friend of mine is doing exactly that as a drinking game, and I'd be totally with him. |
| 02:24.22 | Neuro_Medivh | I'm sure Obama will win the election (it'll be close) simply because Bush has so destroyed the image of the Rep. party |
| 02:25.09 | Neuro_Medivh | McCain shoulda been the Republican candidate back in '00... he couldnt' have done worse than Bush |
| 02:25.36 | Dewin | heh, back in '00 I wanted mccain vs I forget who the other democrat was, not Bush vs. Gore. |
| 02:25.42 | Neuro_Medivh | same here |
| 02:25.49 | Neuro_Medivh | yeah, it was Gore |
| 02:26.07 | Neuro_Medivh | I think McCain would have handled 9/11 better |
| 02:26.18 | Neuro_Medivh | cause, he's actually BEEN in a war zone before |
| 02:26.21 | Lopeppeppy | We can reverse-engineer all we like, the past is what it is. |
| 02:27.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Yssaril (n=Yssaril@adsl-99-141-134-74.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:27.26 | End | damn healers! :( |
| 02:27.36 | Neuro_Medivh | ack, he's Endraged! |
| 02:27.55 | End | Yeah, I'm endraged. |
| 02:28.23 | Malgayne | If anyone is NOT watching the debates |
| 02:28.27 | Malgayne | Wowhead has item comparisons now |
| 02:28.29 | Malgayne | http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=43675&p=431350 |
| 02:29.06 | Lopeppeppy | what healers, End? |
| 02:29.19 | Neuro_Medivh | apparently, those of the damned variety |
| 02:29.58 | Lopeppeppy | But I'm a healer! |
| 02:30.07 | *** join/#wowuidev quoin (n=quoin@114-30-113-165.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 02:30.34 | Esine | I like this channel because there are so many females <3 |
| 02:30.48 | End | Lopeppeppy: our healers! |
| 02:30.53 | End | you aren't one of our healers :( |
| 02:31.07 | Lopeppeppy | Nope I'm not, End. |
| 02:31.20 | Neuro_Medivh | perhaps you should be |
| 02:31.24 | Neuro_Medivh | End, which encounter? |
| 02:31.27 | Lopeppeppy | Yes I am, Esine. :) It think there are a max of 6 of us, but I'm high on cold meds and not coherent. |
| 02:31.31 | End | IC |
| 02:31.35 | End | We have 6 healers |
| 02:31.36 | Esine | :D |
| 02:31.51 | Neuro_Medivh | usually in IC it's "DAMMIT PEOPLE, AVOID THE AOE!" |
| 02:32.08 | End | yeah |
| 02:32.11 | Dewin | what's the aoe? Is it that big red fiery stuff I'm standing in? |
| 02:32.11 | Lopeppeppy | What is IC? < remember, high on cold meds |
| 02:32.16 | End | Illidari Council |
| 02:32.27 | End | last encounter before illidan in black temple |
| 02:33.03 | Lopeppeppy | Oh yeah. I can never go to that one because it's Thursday nights, when I *usually* have plans |
| 02:34.24 | Lopeppeppy | n'night all you folks, I'm still coughing from that laughing fit earlier, time for a shower or something. |
| 02:34.27 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-67-246-45-198.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 02:34.28 | Neuro_Medivh | I'm assuming those plans do not normally involve dousing yourself with Nyquil until you can't feel your tongue |
| 02:34.38 | Neuro_Medivh | bah =) |
| 02:35.08 | End | guess I'll play some TF2 |
| 02:35.13 | End | since the raid just failed |
| 02:35.16 | End | :( |
| 02:38.23 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 02:38.23 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 02:41.32 | *** join/#wowuidev tardmrr__ (n=tardmrr@ip68-226-147-135.lf.br.cox.net) |
| 02:42.33 | *** join/#wowuidev tardmrr (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 02:42.33 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v tardmrr] by ChanServ |
| 02:42.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaelten (n=kaelten@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/WoWIFA/CurseStaff/kaelten) |
| 02:42.46 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 02:48.15 | *** part/#wowuidev Malgayne (n=caseymon@69.107.249.83) |
| 02:48.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Nom- (n=nom@standen.id.au) |
| 03:00.01 | *** join/#wowuidev quoin- (n=quoin@219-90-146-83.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 03:02.48 | Shirik | I think I need to go get something to eat |
| 03:02.51 | Shirik | any suggestions? |
| 03:02.59 | Shirik | choices are basically mcdonald's and wendy's |
| 03:03.03 | Shirik | and 7-11 maybe |
| 03:04.10 | NightHawkTheSane | wendy's |
| 03:04.19 | NightHawkTheSane | 7-11 might be good if you can get something resembling real foo |
| 03:04.21 | NightHawkTheSane | d |
| 03:04.29 | Shirik | I don't really want to drive that far though |
| 03:04.38 | NightHawkTheSane | er, for which? |
| 03:04.47 | Shirik | 7-11 |
| 03:05.12 | Shirik | 600 S Clyde Morris Blvd, Daytona Beach, FL 32114 |
| 03:05.13 | Shirik | gogo |
| 03:05.15 | Shirik | find me something |
| 03:06.07 | NightHawkTheSane | so, wendy's then, if it snot as far |
| 03:07.01 | Shirik | rofl |
| 03:07.07 | Shirik | google maps wants me to drive 20 miles to dairy queen |
| 03:08.51 | Shirik | ok I guess wendy's will work |
| 03:08.58 | Shirik | thanks NightHawkTheSane, you're the only one that will listen to me :( |
| 03:09.57 | Amarande | sweet, you can make darkmoon cards with inscription ... |
| 03:10.20 | Amarande | agh, what am I going to pair inscription with on a character |
| 03:10.30 | Amarande | I've been trying as much as possible to avoid duplicating profs between alts |
| 03:10.42 | Amarande | I've already got alch/herbs, mining/JC, and eng/BS characters |
| 03:10.51 | Amarande | next two will surely be lw/skinning and enchanting/tailoring |
| 03:10.59 | Amarande | soo ... what prof gets to be duplicate? :) |
| 03:11.50 | vithos | ROFL Sinister Relflections of dead priest angels |
| 03:14.48 | Amarande | hmm maybe I should also move to a pvp server so I can kill other players who try to take herbs needed for me to do inscription :) |
| 03:15.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Thelyna (n=burp@122-57-240-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 03:20.42 | Corrodias | more like "so i can get killed by other players who want the herbs needed for me to do inscription" |
| 03:20.55 | Neuro_Medivh | inscription has some serious dead-zones |
| 03:21.18 | Neuro_Medivh | took me 30 combines to get from 298-300, because there are NO combines that are not almost-green by then |
| 03:21.38 | Neuro_Medivh | but then, 300-350 took 10 minutes |
| 03:21.57 | Neuro_Medivh | cause there was always an orange recipe |
| 03:22.00 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: uh, sure? :) sorry, im also raiding at the moment :) |
| 03:22.10 | Amarande | Night, your raid just wiped |
| 03:22.43 | NightHawkTheSane | heh, not yet, but we're doing heigan, so :D |
| 03:22.51 | Amarande | Neuro, that reminds me of trying to get to 300 JC on Turalyon |
| 03:23.03 | Amarande | it took a ridiculous amount of hopping around Burning Steppes |
| 03:25.11 | Neuro_Medivh | jc was the easiest thing in the world for me, but then I was on a brand new server, and I was draenai |
| 03:25.25 | Neuro_Medivh | so there was plenty of demand for the items |
| 03:25.37 | Amarande | well, the problem is that from like 290-300 |
| 03:25.40 | Neuro_Medivh | the +5 jc really helped |
| 03:25.57 | Amarande | there's basically no way around needing huge emeralds without spending a truly ridiculous amount of money |
| 03:26.11 | Amarande | and on Turalyon, virtually no one does 55-60 azeroth content anymore |
| 03:26.21 | Amarande | which means there pretty much weren't even any on the AH at any price |
| 03:26.32 | Amarande | I had to keep mining thorium, and hoping :| |
| 03:26.43 | Neuro_Medivh | ahh, that was the difference, when I was lvling JC, the majority of my server was under 60 |
| 03:26.55 | Amarande | remember, this is the server where it took me two weeks to get a scholo group for my mount quest :P |
| 03:26.59 | Neuro_Medivh | ouch |
| 03:38.06 | Shirik | DD-WRT looks cool |
| 03:38.22 | Shirik | I only have one problem with it: It removes an RTOS in favor of a GPOS? I can't see a justification for that |
| 03:38.52 | ScytheBlade1 | You care too much |
| 03:39.08 | Shirik | I need IPV6!!! T_T |
| 03:39.17 | ScytheBlade1 | I mean about the RTOS :P |
| 03:39.25 | Shirik | I like RTOSes |
| 03:39.25 | Neuro_Medivh | What was that? Klingon? ENGLISH, MOFO, DO YOU SPEAK IT? |
| 03:39.44 | Shirik | If I could, I would use one as my home-based computer, but I would worry about things running well (i.e., WoW) |
| 03:40.18 | Shirik | There's just something about them that makes them <3 |
| 03:41.35 | Arrowmaster | RTOS? GPOS? |
| 03:41.37 | *** join/#wowuidev netcurse (n=chatzill@76.73.155.18) |
| 03:42.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Real-Time/General Purpose Operating System |
| 03:42.29 | Arrowmaster | and some people have issues with DD-WRT being extremely unstable |
| 03:42.32 | Shirik | ~wiki RTOS |
| 03:43.19 | Shirik | "An RTOS facilitates the creation of a real-time system, but does not guarantee the final result will be real-time; this requires correct development of the software. An RTOS does not necessarily have high throughput; rather, an RTOS provides facilities which, if used properly, guarantee deadlines can be met generally (soft real-time) or deterministically (hard real-time). An RTOS will typically use specialized scheduling algorithms in orde |
| 03:43.21 | Shirik | That's the important part |
| 03:44.23 | Arrowmaster | i use tomato firmware on my router, any idea if thats RTOS or GPOS? |
| 03:44.42 | Shirik | Common distinctions of an RTOS: If a process has a higher priority than everything else and never gives up the CPU, it will always run. A GPOS would typically preempt that process at some point to give brief control to other processes |
| 03:44.54 | Shirik | oh my friend used tomato |
| 03:44.56 | Shirik | it looked interesting |
| 03:45.40 | Shirik | Tomato claims it used Linux |
| 03:45.42 | Shirik | which is a GPOS |
| 03:45.55 | Arrowmaster | so did the original firmware |
| 03:45.59 | Shirik | what's wierd is it also says it's based off Linksys's code, but Linksys uses VxWorks |
| 03:46.01 | Shirik | so I'm confused |
| 03:46.07 | Arrowmaster | afk muru |
| 03:46.23 | Arrowmaster | afk muru can explain after |
| 03:46.46 | ccox | Linksys also uses Linux on some routers |
| 03:46.58 | Shirik | well mine uses VxWorks according to their site :) |
| 03:46.59 | ulikemysong | can someone help me ? got a simple dropdownmenu and it wont work got a pastey http://wowuidev.pastey.net/97398 |
| 03:47.02 | ccox | hence some complaints about stability of some of their recent routers |
| 03:47.15 | Shirik | ~doesntwork |
| 03:47.15 | purl | Look buddy, doesn't work is a strong statement. Does it sit on the couch all day? Does it want more money? Is it on IRC all the time? Be specific! Examples of what doesn't work (or the URL) tend to help too, or pastebin the config if that's the problem |
| 03:47.30 | ccox | vxworks on mine as well - but I reboot it every 6 months, just in case |
| 03:47.47 | Shirik | VxWorks is really nice. My second favorite OS |
| 03:47.50 | Shirik | Second only to QNX |
| 03:48.06 | WobWork | http://www.palinbingo.com/ |
| 03:48.14 | Shirik | QNX is 75% because it's Open Source and 25% because it's fully POSIX compliant |
| 03:48.23 | ccox | WobWork: I think she hit all of them tonight |
| 03:48.31 | WobWork | "Media Blackout!" |
| 03:48.52 | Shirik | ulikemysong: Your first problem is that it has no comment |
| 03:48.54 | Shirik | comments |
| 03:49.52 | Arrowmaster | linksys used linux originally but switched to vxworks for later revisions of the routers |
| 03:50.08 | Arrowmaster | all alternative firmware is based on the linux firmware |
| 03:50.16 | ulikemysong | what u mean by comments ? sry not english by mothertongue |
| 03:50.34 | Arrowmaster | but from what ive heard the vxworks firmware is total crap too |
| 03:50.48 | Shirik | vxworks isn't; the firmware might be :) |
| 03:50.50 | Arrowmaster | the original linux firmware was but the altnernatives are a lot better |
| 03:51.17 | Arrowmaster | yeah extermely buggy stuff especially the UI ive heard |
| 03:51.35 | Shirik | ulikemysong: Do you know what -- does? |
| 03:51.44 | ulikemysong | yes |
| 03:51.59 | Shirik | that is a comment |
| 03:52.14 | ulikemysong | you mean you want me comment it with the specific problem ? |
| 03:52.23 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: what router do you have? |
| 03:52.25 | Shirik | no, but you should have comments to help you remember what you were doing |
| 03:52.33 | ulikemysong | oh |
| 03:52.46 | Shirik | WRT54G2 |
| 03:52.57 | Arrowmaster | G2? |
| 03:53.02 | Arrowmaster | hmm |
| 03:53.03 | Shirik | a newer model |
| 03:53.09 | Arrowmaster | muru |
| 03:55.10 | Shirik | ulikemysong: It's generally a good idea to use comments to keep things organized and to say what you're doing to help fix problems. Like this: http://wowi.pastey.net/97399 |
| 03:55.39 | Shirik | actually that's a bad example |
| 03:56.37 | Shirik | Better: http://wowi.pastey.net/97400 |
| 03:56.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Most of Shirik's stuff happen to be bad examples |
| 03:56.42 | Shirik | ~kill ScytheBlade1 |
| 03:56.43 | purl | ACTION shoots a ionized pseudoneutron gun at ScytheBlade1 |
| 03:56.51 | Neuro_Medivh | ah, yes, code comments, the worst part of any programming |
| 03:57.04 | Shirik | don't say that! |
| 03:57.07 | Shirik | They are very important |
| 03:57.15 | Neuro_Medivh | oh, absolutely |
| 03:57.21 | Neuro_Medivh | but I don't know ANYONE who enjoys doing it |
| 03:57.24 | ulikemysong | ok i see |
| 03:57.27 | Shirik | I enjoy it |
| 03:57.36 | ScytheBlade1 | really depends on what you're commenting :P |
| 03:57.38 | Shirik | I've written 100 line comments before |
| 03:57.43 | Shirik | I've written ASCII art comments too |
| 03:57.51 | Shirik | (And yes, it was helpful ASCII art!) |
| 03:57.59 | Neuro_Medivh | ok, I'm chalking that up to you being weird =) |
| 03:58.01 | Shirik | (And yes, it did take up 45 minutes to draw it out) |
| 03:58.14 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: if its a newer model it might not have much nvram so you wouldnt be able to put a large firmware on it anyway |
| 03:58.36 | Neuro_Medivh | I, and most programmers I know, hate commenting code. Though, technical writing is far higher on my list of hates about IT |
| 03:58.43 | Arrowmaster | most firmware are 4mb but some have a 2mb lite version |
| 03:58.51 | Shirik | see I enjoy technical writing, etc. |
| 03:58.58 | Shirik | So, that may be why I have no problem commenting |
| 03:59.17 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: Unfortunately I haven't found a compatible custom firmware yet |
| 03:59.40 | ScytheBlade1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:59.44 | Shirik | I mean, hell, look at 109-134 of http://wowi.pastey.net/97400 |
| 03:59.46 | ulikemysong | will try to do this |
| 03:59.48 | Shirik | who does that? |
| 04:00.02 | ScytheBlade1 | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10532272068&sid=2000 |
| 04:00.15 | Arrowmaster | yeah i specificly ordered a WRT54GL online because i wanted to change the firmware |
| 04:00.23 | Shirik | ROFL ScytheBlade1 |
| 04:00.38 | Arrowmaster | would be nice to have a 802.11n router that could use custom firmware though |
| 04:00.49 | Shirik | I don't really care about that |
| 04:01.01 | Shirik | 11g is far more than my needs require |
| 04:01.10 | Arrowmaster | same for now |
| 04:01.29 | Shirik | I actually didn't need a router forever, I used my computer as a router |
| 04:01.45 | Shirik | but I eventually got sick of occasionally having my computer off and not being able to use my laptop |
| 04:02.19 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: yeah people scare me |
| 04:04.37 | Shirik | will ScytheBlade1 be coming to Blizzcon? |
| 04:06.14 | ScytheBlade1 | If you can provide transportation, share a room with me, and get me a ticket, sure |
| 04:06.17 | ScytheBlade1 | =[ |
| 04:06.41 | Shirik | :( |
| 04:06.52 | ScytheBlade1 | pretty much |
| 04:06.54 | ScytheBlade1 | money sucks |
| 04:08.22 | ScytheBlade1 | And I miss out on 'peppey's cookies |
| 04:08.27 | ScytheBlade1 | EXTRA-sadface for that one |
| 04:08.39 | Shirik | I like how Cairenn randomly makes reservations under my name without telling me |
| 04:08.44 | Arrowmaster | Shirik: no you really did need a router, just because of the simple protection nat provides |
| 04:08.57 | Shirik | Arrowmaster: I don't care about protection :) |
| 04:09.04 | Cairenn | Shirik: deal with it |
| 04:09.05 | ScytheBlade1 | nat sucks |
| 04:09.08 | Shirik | <3 Cairenn |
| 04:09.13 | Arrowmaster | yes nat does suck |
| 04:09.17 | Cairenn | Sargeras: we're making one under your name too, hope you don't mind :p |
| 04:09.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Further it doesn't provide any real protection either :P |
| 04:09.45 | Shirik | so it's like a sheepskin condom? |
| 04:09.48 | Shirik | sorry >< |
| 04:09.53 | Shirik | I really need to go to sleep, that's not like me |
| 04:09.58 | ScytheBlade1 | hahaha |
| 04:09.58 | Cairenn | Sargeras: nm |
| 04:10.16 | Shirik|zZz | night |
| 04:10.20 | ScytheBlade1 | night |
| 04:10.28 | Arrowmaster | ScytheBlade1: yes it does |
| 04:10.54 | batrick | man shirik always goes to bed early |
| 04:11.00 | batrick | can't have those late night chess games nemore |
| 04:11.02 | batrick | wat a casual |
| 04:11.07 | ScytheBlade1 | At the end of the day, your ability to keep your computers from turning into bots in a large botnet has about zero to do with your usage of NAT or otherwise |
| 04:11.45 | Arrowmaster | it provides some protection from external threats |
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| 04:12.01 | Arrowmaster | nothing can be done about people that will click any link they get in an email |
| 04:12.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Just like how using IE provides 'some protection' against bad websites |
| 04:13.18 | Arrowmaster | well its provides the protection from the stuff that will infect a fresh windows xp install with no service packs in a matter of seconds after connecting to the internet |
| 04:14.10 | Arrowmaster | and amazingly most windows xp installs still dont have a service pack |
| 04:14.19 | ScytheBlade1 | I strongly disagree with that point |
| 04:14.52 | ScytheBlade1 | I haven't seen a stock XP disc in years, from vendors, on torrent sites, to discs from years ago from OEM companies |
| 04:15.32 | Arrowmaster | its probably been going down a lot with the recent surge in super cheap (and shitty) computers from OEMs |
| 04:22.25 | batrick | gmail been horendously slow lately for anyone else? |
| 04:23.09 | Amarande | heh, I actually have an original 2002 XP disc |
| 04:24.47 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: hopefully, the people who will click any link they get in their email will soon find they no longer have any money with which to, say, pay their ISP subscription, and will no longer be a problem for the Internet |
| 04:24.48 | Amarande | heh |
| 04:25.28 | Arrowmaster | one could only hope |
| 04:25.47 | Arrowmaster | ah damnit i cant find my xp cd image anyway, needed to create a new vmware image |
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| 04:58.29 | Xinhuan | Arrowmaster, how is my svn account name/pass changed, if at all? |
| 04:58.36 | Xinhuan | hmm wrong channel i guess |
| 04:59.11 | Arrowmaster | fine then pick a channel |
| 05:01.53 | Dewin | Xinhuan: For wowi? |
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| 05:20.14 | Amarande | hmm |
| 05:20.17 | Amarande | I swear the cake really is a lie |
| 05:20.47 | Amarande | I've been doing the cooking daily every day since maybe mid august or so, except for the six days I was away at Dragon Con, and I still don't have the damned cake recipe |
| 05:20.54 | Amarande | I'm afraid to even do the cooking daily on the PTR now for fear I might get it *THERE* heh |
| 05:21.02 | Mikk | Of course you would |
| 05:21.14 | Amarande | of course, on the realm where we will be deleted in a few weeks! |
| 05:21.15 | Amarande | heh |
| 05:21.16 | Mikk | Plus it's a bit pointless to do ;) |
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| 05:50.47 | NightHawkTheSane | you know what's awesome? |
| 05:50.59 | NightHawkTheSane | the lifts in HF actually look like they -could- work. |
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| 06:15.29 | ReAn | yar |
| 06:15.33 | ReAn | i agree NightHawkTheSane |
| 06:16.38 | ReAn | personally, i like the gondola |
| 06:22.07 | Neuro_Medivh | I wonder if the same person who designed HF designed Icecrown, cause the quests are just as disjointed |
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| 07:11.41 | molgar | hi, if i make a button like this : newFrame = CreateFrame("button"[, "frameName"[, parentFrame[, "inheritsFrame"]]]); |
| 07:12.04 | molgar | what will be the name of the 2nd button it create |
| 07:12.10 | ReAn | that works |
| 07:12.41 | ReAn | what 2nd button? |
| 07:12.48 | ReAn | you name the frame in the 2nd argument |
| 07:13.26 | molgar | yeah, it workes, but my problem is that the 2ns button i create is on top of the first, and what will be the name of the 2nd button ? |
| 07:13.38 | molgar | i need to know so i can tell it to be a diferent relative |
| 07:14.02 | cladhaire | you decide the names |
| 07:14.21 | molgar | but can i have 10 buttons with the same name ? |
| 07:14.24 | cladhaire | The only time something will be named for you, is if you inherit a template that uses $parent |
| 07:14.33 | cladhaire | Technically, yes you can create 10 buttons with the same name |
| 07:14.37 | cladhaire | although things will/may break |
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| 07:15.15 | ReAn | local btn1 = CreateFrame("button", "My_Button1", UIParent); |
| 07:15.22 | ReAn | local btn2 = CreateFrame("button", "My_Button2", UIParent); |
| 07:15.33 | ReAn | local btn3 = CreateFrame("button", "My_Button3", btn1); |
| 07:15.48 | molgar | aha, but is it possible to do something like this newFrame = CreateFrame("button"[, "#newbuttonname"[, parentFrame[, "inheritsFrame"]]]); |
| 07:16.18 | ReAn | im not sure what you mean? |
| 07:16.24 | ReAn | you want the name to be inherited? |
| 07:16.48 | molgar | i make a new button when i press down enter, so if i do that i create 3 buttons in same time. i only want 1 new every time i hit enter |
| 07:17.39 | cladhaire | Why are you creating a frame in response to a keyboard event? |
| 07:17.44 | cladhaire | that is a bad idea |
| 07:18.03 | ReAn | molgar: you cannot delete frames |
| 07:18.15 | molgar | so i can make a list |
| 07:18.23 | ReAn | so it's best to hide existing frames and store a reference to them when you're not using them |
| 07:18.32 | ReAn | so you can just grab one out of the "unused" pile |
| 07:21.43 | molgar | i think i need to do it the way u said, with bt1 bt2 and bt3, and just set up a functoin that it ignore making but 2, 3 4 etc if the list is emtpy, and if there is 1 , it have to only make nr 2 and ignore 1 and 3 , 4 etc |
| 07:22.44 | cladhaire | the moral of the story is there is nothing that will automatically do you want to do, but Lua is a Turing complete language, so naturally you can set it to do almost anything you want :P |
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| 07:25.13 | molgar | ^^ automaticly ? that have nothing to do with what i want or my point. but maby i formulated it abit wrong |
| 07:25.49 | ReAn | molgar, lemmie finish tanking this boss |
| 07:25.58 | ReAn | and ill try and give you some 1on1 help |
| 07:26.05 | molgar | thx alot dude |
| 07:28.15 | batrick | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:28.42 | batrick | going through beta.worldofwarcraft.com is ending up in a seemingly infinite wait |
| 07:28.54 | ReAn | batbot |
| 07:29.03 | ReAn | er, batrick, try www.wotlkwiki.info |
| 07:29.06 | ReAn | i know we had a link |
| 07:29.10 | ReAn | dunno if we still do |
| 07:31.23 | batrick | http://wotlkwiki.info/index.php/Client_and_Patches |
| 07:31.28 | batrick | that worked thanks ^_^ |
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| 07:33.05 | tardmrr | dps for HoL? |
| 07:33.15 | ReAn | tardmrr: sure |
| 07:33.19 | ReAn | horde? |
| 07:33.23 | tardmrr | alliance |
| 07:33.36 | ReAn | nvm |
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| 07:50.31 | Tornhoof | hmm is it possible to rotate frames or only textures? |
| 07:50.43 | ReAn | only textures |
| 07:51.05 | Tornhoof | duh |
| 07:51.09 | Tornhoof | pitty, thanks |
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| 08:20.46 | Tornhoof | was control:RunMethod removed from the secure headers? |
| 08:24.49 | Tornhoof | ah nm, they renamed it to CallMethod |
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| 08:38.04 | tardmrr | okay, this is kind of broken |
| 08:38.37 | Tem | with my cooldowns and blade barrier, I have 92.81% avoidance |
| 08:41.04 | Tem | I can see going above 102.5% easily with some upgrades |
| 08:42.17 | Tem | there must be some DR going on that I can't see |
| 08:42.35 | Tem | because there's no way they'd allow a tank in blues to be able to be untouchable |
| 08:42.43 | Tem | even if it's just 15s once every 3 minutes |
| 08:43.08 | ReAn | what class? DK? |
| 08:49.13 | Tem | DK |
| 09:01.11 | Industrial | does avoidance count for spells Tem|afk ? |
| 09:01.19 | ReAn | no |
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| 09:05.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Skate555 (n=skate555@host-91.216-16-2.iw.net) |
| 09:07.51 | Skate555 | does anyone know of a command to check if an item exists in the players inventory?? |
| 09:07.59 | Arrowmaster | GetItemCount() |
| 09:08.09 | Arrowmaster | !api GetItemCount |
| 09:08.10 | lua_bot | Documentation for 'GetItemCount' can be found at http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetItemCount |
| 09:08.33 | Skate555 | thanx...and this can be used in macro aswell as addon...correct?? |
| 09:08.42 | Arrowmaster | yeah |
| 09:08.48 | Skate555 | ok thanx |
| 09:08.55 | Arrowmaster | i had a tainted core macro that only yelled if you had a core |
| 09:09.24 | Skate555 | lolz since the newest cryo seems out of date i'm just replacing it's functionality with macros for now |
| 09:12.45 | Skate555 | what is tainted core btw?? |
| 09:16.49 | Mikk | it's something you pick up while fighting vashj |
| 09:16.54 | Mikk | and need to toss around |
| 09:17.09 | ReAn | Skate555, the functional puzzle element of the vashj encounter |
| 09:17.25 | Mikk | the "hai, use vent" element |
| 09:17.56 | ReAn | iza compotence check |
| 09:18.00 | ReAn | cuz everyone needs a macro |
| 09:18.10 | ReAn | and while it's an incredibly easy concept |
| 09:18.13 | ReAn | the ones that fail it |
| 09:18.16 | ReAn | lack in compotence |
| 09:18.28 | Mikk | Bah, I just toss it at the warlock kiting a strider and listen to him swear. He always runs conveniently close |
| 09:18.32 | Mikk | \o/ |
| 09:18.40 | ReAn | you use a warlock? |
| 09:18.43 | ReAn | wierd... |
| 09:18.50 | ReAn | you must be alliance |
| 09:18.56 | Mikk | Aye, not enough shamans |
| 09:19.08 | ReAn | figured |
| 09:19.08 | Mikk | CoEx + blast Searing Pain |
| 09:19.17 | ReAn | shamans are cake |
| 09:19.23 | ReAn | FROST SHOOOOOOCK |
| 09:19.26 | Mikk | indeed |
| 09:19.27 | ReAn | + LB spam |
| 09:19.30 | Mikk | not even challenging |
| 09:19.38 | Mikk | LB? oO |
| 09:19.43 | ReAn | when you have distance |
| 09:19.46 | Mikk | ah |
| 09:19.46 | ReAn | it's good aggro |
| 09:19.48 | Mikk | lightning bolt |
| 09:19.53 | Mikk | i r resto druid, kk? |
| 09:19.55 | ReAn | and 2s cast time |
| 09:20.00 | ReAn | ir resto shaman |
| 09:20.07 | Mikk | LB = lifebloom |
| 09:20.17 | ReAn | and you have it bound to everything right? |
| 09:20.26 | ReAn | and just roll your face across the keyboard |
| 09:20.27 | Mikk | i have it bound to my right mousebutton :o) |
| 09:20.59 | Mikk | click click click click click |
| 09:20.59 | Mikk | UN-modified right mouse button even |
| 09:20.59 | ReAn | i use clique |
| 09:21.05 | Mikk | i use click2cast, same deal |
| 09:21.06 | ReAn | right mouse button on grid = chain heal rank 2 |
| 09:21.11 | ReAn | i spam it a lot |
| 09:21.17 | Mikk | no, rly :P |
| 09:21.22 | ReAn | i did the math |
| 09:21.28 | ReAn | with my t6 2pc bonus |
| 09:21.37 | ReAn | i can go for 46 minutes non-stop in my regen gear |
| 09:21.44 | ReAn | w/ the right mtt/pot rotation |
| 09:21.44 | Mikk | jesus fucking christ |
| 09:21.49 | ReAn | it's rank 2 tho |
| 09:21.57 | ReAn | so it's like.... 2k on first bounce |
| 09:22.00 | Mikk | aye, you can kiss that goodbye in a week or so :S |
| 09:22.01 | ReAn | 3.4k crits |
| 09:22.05 | ReAn | ya i know |
| 09:22.11 | ReAn | but i also kiss my shaman goodbye |
| 09:22.14 | ReAn | switching to rogue in wotlk |
| 09:22.31 | Mikk | well.. as resto druid i never even downranked to begin with |
| 09:22.36 | Mikk | so i can care less |
| 09:22.46 | ReAn | heh |
| 09:23.06 | Mikk | i don't get how they're thinking now though.. talented + with inscription you DOUBLE the time of lifebloom |
| 09:23.11 | Mikk | as if it wasn't imba enough to begin with |
| 09:23.29 | Mikk | stack some haste and you can keep half the raid perma LBd >.< |
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| 09:24.04 | ReAn | yea, it's even easier to be a resto druid |
| 09:24.27 | ReAn | as if you even needed help |
| 09:24.40 | ReAn | blue geared resto's can main heal all of kz while 1/2 asleep |
| 09:24.43 | ReAn | fuckin regen |
| 09:24.48 | Mikk | mhm |
| 09:25.04 | Mikk | well.. assuming a nonblue tank anyway |
| 09:25.06 | ReAn | although resto shams blow your fucking face off in BT |
| 09:25.14 | Skate555 | could somone link documentation pertaining to controlling what a right/left click does on a macro?? |
| 09:25.16 | ReAn | especially on gorefiend |
| 09:25.27 | Mikk | we use CoH holy priests on gorelol |
| 09:25.31 | Mikk | err |
| 09:25.33 | Mikk | bloodboil |
| 09:25.33 | ReAn | lol |
| 09:25.36 | ReAn | oh yea |
| 09:25.38 | ReAn | we do to |
| 09:25.39 | Mikk | yeah gorefiend = shamans |
| 09:25.42 | ReAn | yus |
| 09:25.49 | ReAn | lemmie see if i can find an old WWS |
| 09:25.58 | Lukian | Skate555, /cast [button:2] spellname |
| 09:25.59 | Lukian | irrc |
| 09:26.01 | Lukian | iirc* |
| 09:26.21 | Mikk | well, my nonraider gf brought her kz/badge gear restoshammy to BT a while ago when we were short on healers |
| 09:26.27 | Skate555 | hrm?? i'm trying to have it run one script on left click and a different one on right click |
| 09:26.27 | Mikk | just spammed brain heal on the tank |
| 09:26.34 | Mikk | still outhealed everyone else... except me :P |
| 09:27.15 | ReAn | k well |
| 09:27.18 | ReAn | i dont raid anymore |
| 09:27.20 | ReAn | but when i did |
| 09:27.21 | ReAn | http://wowwebstats.com/csr6er4nv2s4o |
| 09:27.29 | ReAn | i was always about 30% above picnic |
| 09:27.46 | ReAn | er |
| 09:27.46 | ReAn | http://wowwebstats.com/csr6er4nv2s4o?s=190461-204493 |
| 09:27.49 | ReAn | not overall |
| 09:27.50 | ReAn | but on that fight |
| 09:27.59 | ReAn | i stacked the haste |
| 09:28.03 | ReAn | blew BL / Zerking |
| 09:28.07 | Skate555 | so is what i'm trying possible?? |
| 09:28.12 | ReAn | had my chain heal down to 1.1 sec |
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| 09:29.16 | Mikk | Skate555: you can make different lines in the macro execute for different modifier keys |
| 09:29.32 | ReAn | Skate555 |
| 09:29.41 | Mikk | such lines could be executing entirely different macros i suppose |
| 09:29.50 | ReAn | one sec Skate555 |
| 09:30.12 | Mikk | ReAn: Some of your healers suck major balls, hth, hand, hf :P |
| 09:31.32 | ReAn | who? |
| 09:31.58 | ReAn | Skate555: /cast [button:2] RightMouseClickSpell; [nobutton:2] LeftMouseButtonSpell |
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| 09:32.17 | Omega555 | /script IntManaGem1 = GetItemCount(ManaGem1); if(IntManaGem1)then /use ManaGem1 else end << i'm not the best with macros...would something like this work?? |
| 09:32.25 | ReAn | Omega555 = Skate555? |
| 09:32.35 | Omega555 | aye |
| 09:32.38 | Omega555 | sorry got d/ced |
| 09:32.40 | Mikk | No, that won't work. You're mixing macro syntax and lua |
| 09:32.56 | Mikk | Once you've said "/script", you can forget about macro commands like "/use" |
| 09:33.10 | ReAn | Mikk: Churn = Non-raider, Arti = Applicant, Atavis = Alt, Meryn = no idea |
| 09:33.14 | Omega555 | crap...is there a way to do it then?? |
| 09:33.31 | Mikk | You're doing that to avoid errors? |
| 09:33.31 | Omega555 | in addon creation i use send message |
| 09:33.34 | ReAn | Omega555, you gotta use the lua exposed API |
| 09:33.46 | ReAn | Skate555: /cast [button:2] RightMouseClickSpell; [nobutton:2] LeftMouseButtonSpell |
| 09:33.49 | ReAn | as i said before |
| 09:34.00 | ReAn | if you use /script in a macro |
| 09:34.04 | Mikk | You can't even "Use" items like that from lua anymore |
| 09:34.09 | ReAn | you can't catch the mouse button |
| 09:34.24 | ReAn | Mikk: Can you call functions that use items? |
| 09:34.29 | ReAn | i.e. in a mod somewhere? |
| 09:34.42 | ReAn | or is it an enclosed environment when executed from a marco? |
| 09:34.42 | Mikk | I just said that mods can't do it |
| 09:34.59 | Mikk | You can "click" a secure frame that has a "type=use" |
| 09:35.02 | ReAn | well mods can use items, but only from protected calls right? |
| 09:35.07 | ReAn | yea |
| 09:35.14 | ReAn | that's what i was getting at |
| 09:35.18 | Omega555 | maybe i should just build something like cryo that meets my needs...addon creation is so much simpler with less limitation |
| 09:35.40 | ReAn | yep |
| 09:35.41 | Mikk | Are you just trying to avoid errors up there? |
| 09:35.52 | Mikk | Because the easiest way to do what you're trying to do is probably to just disable errors |
| 09:36.00 | Mikk | and then spam a bunch of /use or whatever |
| 09:36.05 | Mikk | And then re-enable errors |
| 09:36.14 | Omega555 | cryo errors out alot as it is and now it vanished all together |
| 09:36.36 | ReAn | wish me luck |
| 09:36.47 | ReAn | im about to go fight "THE BOSS" in MGS3 on Hard |
| 09:36.56 | Mikk | luck :P |
| 09:37.44 | Omega555 | that's why i'm doing this...which is why i've diceded to just make my own addon...doesn't hafta be too complex to do what i need i should tink...most of the complexity comes from making it configurable and customizable... |
| 09:38.26 | Mikk | enjoy learning how to use secure frames |
| 09:38.30 | Mikk | they're barrels of fun! |
| 09:39.18 | Omega555 | secure frames?? why |
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| 09:48.10 | ReAn | YAY |
| 09:48.13 | ReAn | i beat her! |
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| 12:32.10 | alestane | Anyone know how I can view an overview of my projects, with download counts and comment lists, on Curseforge the way I did before on the general Curse site? |
| 12:34.00 | alestane | Hm, okay, it still esists on Curse but they reformatted it and changed the URL. |
| 12:43.48 | Tornhoof | hmm alestane, is there any way to move complex calculations/code from the secure handler code other parts (like own functions), the complex code is just for math calculations I would only need return values ;) |
| 12:44.53 | alestane | Not quite sure what you mean yet. If you want a calculation be be used by a secure codepath, and changeable in combat, than it needs to be handled inside your user code in some way. |
| 12:45.25 | alestane | But you can use control:Run() to store frequently reused code in a string and use it like a function. |
| 12:46.06 | Tornhoof | ok yes that might work |
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| 12:47.04 | Tornhoof | can i use [[...]] for those strings, or do i really need to do "..." and escape everything inbetween? |
| 12:48.40 | alestane | I usually use [[long brackets]] for code snippets, but if you're going to nest them inside of each other, you need to change their variance...like frame:Execute([=[myFunc = [[return (...) * 5]] ]=] |
| 12:49.39 | alestane | http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#2.1, a couple paragraphs down under "string literals". |
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| 12:50.53 | Tornhoof | ah ok, thanks a lot, that will atleast make my code more readable |
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| 12:57.45 | zenzio | that be Friday |
| 12:57.56 | Lopeppeppy | Careful, I has tons of germs that you're squeezing out all over the place. |
| 12:57.58 | zenzio | why am I clinically unable to type "thar" |
| 12:58.35 | Lopeppeppy | Because it's not talk like a pirate day? |
| 12:59.20 | zenzio | I don't care about that day |
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| 12:59.59 | Tornhoof | thanks alestane, that works like a charm |
| 13:00.12 | Lopeppeppy | alestane rocks the world, IMO. |
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| 13:06.44 | Lunessa | STATION! |
| 13:07.00 | Lopeppeppy | Good morning, Lunessa dear. |
| 13:07.10 | Lunessa | Morning Peppy! |
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| 13:22.17 | Kraps | anyone here ever played wow while in pain? |
| 13:22.27 | Lopeppeppy | Every bloody day, Kraps. |
| 13:22.37 | Kraps | ... |
| 13:22.41 | Kraps | really? |
| 13:22.54 | Lopeppeppy | Ya really. Serious question, serious answer. Yes. |
| 13:23.29 | Kraps | the question was only half serious |
| 13:23.39 | Lopeppeppy | *snort* |
| 13:24.12 | Lopeppeppy | Ah well, if you have a half-other-question, I'm happy to try to answer it. :) |
| 13:24.21 | Kraps | lol |
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| 13:26.02 | Shirik | and how is everyone this cheerful morning |
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| 13:26.34 | Kraps | fine... |
| 13:27.02 | Lopeppeppy | Perky spiffy home sick! |
| 13:27.41 | Shirik | huh? |
| 13:27.51 | Kraps | exactly! |
| 13:28.12 | Kraps | what do you think about yesterdays debate? |
| 13:28.34 | Lopeppeppy | There was a debate? |
| 13:28.39 | Shirik | It was very uneventful |
| 13:28.46 | Lopeppeppy | I just saw someone being sweet and fragile and someone talking to the cameras. |
| 13:28.49 | Shirik | that is, I didn't watch it, so there were not many events I was aware of |
| 13:29.35 | Lopeppeppy | There were a few good quips, Shirik, but you didn't miss much. |
| 13:30.03 | Lopeppeppy | Palin did one good thing, she asked early if she could call Biden "Joe" so that she could later quip, "Say it ain't so!" and look wicked smaht. |
| 13:30.27 | Kraps | heh |
| 13:31.23 | Lunessa | Politics is like wrestling with a greased pig; you just get dirty and the only ones having fun are the pig and the audience. |
| 13:31.38 | Lopeppeppy | And the audience in this case wasn't having much fun either. |
| 13:35.24 | Lunessa | I've come to the conclusion that it is impossible to get un-biased information about political figures. Everyone adds a slant. They just hope you don't notice. And it's pissing me off. |
| 13:37.29 | Lopeppeppy | All you can do is watch the debates and make up your own mind... but even then, it's the candidates spinning themselves, so... |
| 13:37.47 | cbreak | You could ask the politicians directly. But I doubt the data they provide is any less biased. |
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| 13:42.13 | Legorol | Good morning coders. Important question for me: is the Hand of A'dal going to become unobtainable with patch 3.0? Or is it going to be with WotLK? |
| 13:42.49 | Pneumatus | a blue post reported by mmo-champ suggests that once 3.0 goes live, you wont get the title when you hand in the vials quest |
| 13:43.04 | Gnarfoz | it doesn't suggest it, it clearly states it |
| 13:43.13 | Gnarfoz | also, vials is not the point at which you get the title :p |
| 13:43.25 | Pneumatus | well, whatever part of the trigger chains you are on |
| 13:43.34 | Pneumatus | vials/bt attunement |
| 13:43.47 | Gnarfoz | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/10532601549-feat-of-strength-hand-of-adal-after-patch.html |
| 13:50.12 | Lunessa | http://xkcd.com/484/ |
| 13:50.35 | Lopeppeppy | Lunessa: Yup. |
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| 14:00.38 | kneeki | Good morning everyone |
| 14:00.51 | Shirik | good morning!!! |
| 14:01.21 | Lopeppeppy | Morning. |
| 14:01.40 | Kalroth | Time to head home soon! |
| 14:01.44 | Shirik | ~ugt |
| 14:01.44 | purl | extra, extra, read all about it, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 14:01.47 | Shirik | oh |
| 14:01.56 | Shirik | good night then! |
| 14:02.00 | Kalroth | No :( |
| 14:02.03 | cbreak | purl, uct is superior to ugt |
| 14:02.03 | purl | cbreak: okay |
| 14:02.04 | kneeki | Haha |
| 14:02.07 | kneeki | No night ever! |
| 14:02.09 | Kalroth | Leaving work != ugt! |
| 14:02.17 | Josh_Borke | ~uct |
| 14:02.18 | purl | hmm... uct is superior to ugt |
| 14:03.11 | Lunessa | Haha,,, my department is called "UCT" |
| 14:03.17 | cbreak | it's UTC :/ |
| 14:03.18 | cbreak | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC |
| 14:03.31 | Shirik | UTC is crap compared to UGT |
| 14:03.52 | cbreak | it's semi absolute |
| 14:03.58 | cbreak | as much as relativity allows |
| 14:04.13 | Shirik | and leap seconds |
| 14:04.16 | cbreak | (and with all the leap seconds and stuff :/) |
| 14:04.35 | Shirik | we don't have to worry about any of that nonsense in UGT |
| 14:04.57 | cbreak | ever tried to plan a raid at a UGT reference time? |
| 14:05.13 | Shirik | seems like what we do |
| 14:05.22 | Shirik | "whenever we have enoug people log on" |
| 14:05.42 | Shirik | people don't even know what EST is |
| 14:06.03 | cbreak | how wide is the US time zone wise? |
| 14:07.12 | krka_ | i think there are 3 time zones |
| 14:07.13 | Lopeppeppy | 4 time zones |
| 14:07.16 | Legorol | 4 |
| 14:07.18 | krka_ | damn it! |
| 14:07.21 | Legorol | mm peppy beat me |
| 14:07.26 | cbreak | seems europe is about four zones wide. If parts of russia are included |
| 14:07.40 | Shirik | eastern, central, mountain, pacific, indiana, alaska, hawaii |
| 14:08.00 | Shirik | indiana is always EST, eastern is EST or EDT |
| 14:08.02 | Legorol | Shirik: what's the ordering from east to west? |
| 14:08.14 | Shirik | the first 4 are east to west |
| 14:08.14 | krka_ | http://www.worldtimezone.com/ |
| 14:08.38 | Legorol | Shirik: cool, then with the exception of indiana and hawaii, i got it right |
| 14:09.11 | Legorol | is alaska further west than pacific? |
| 14:09.14 | Legorol | or in the same zone |
| 14:09.16 | Shirik | indiana isn't really its own time zone, it's eastern with its own rules |
| 14:09.16 | krka_ | alaska, los angeles, calgary, chicago, new york |
| 14:09.22 | krka_ | should be five zones then? |
| 14:09.31 | Shirik | hawaii? |
| 14:09.33 | krka_ | doh, hawaii |
| 14:09.34 | krka_ | missed it |
| 14:09.39 | krka_ | too far away on the map :( |
| 14:09.55 | krka_ | anything between alaska and hawaii? |
| 14:09.58 | krka_ | (timezone wise) |
| 14:10.52 | Lopeppeppy | I don't think there's anything physically there either. :) |
| 14:11.01 | krka_ | water? |
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| 14:27.18 | Lunessa | *sigh* Sometimes, I hate my job. |
| 14:27.50 | sacarasc | could be worse, you could lose your brain in a tragic jogging accident |
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| 14:28.46 | Lunessa | Yes, that would be worse. |
| 14:29.32 | Lunessa | Someone got up in arms because I was wrong about a site license (as in we had one that I thought we didn't). |
| 14:29.39 | cladhaire | lw |
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| 14:37.20 | AckisWork | Lunessa: I hate my job more than you hate your job |
| 14:37.47 | Lunessa | Feel free. Hate is more plentiful than hydrogen. |
| 14:37.54 | AckisWork | heh |
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| 14:39.51 | Redguard | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10544538386&postId=107094995147&sid=1 |
| 14:40.25 | Lunessa | I'm trying to figure out how to use hate to fuel my car. I suspect hate + rage would eliminate my need to buy gasoline... ever. |
| 14:40.32 | Redguard | I have a border highlight on action buttons, but I want to apply an animated effect to the border, similar to the clockwise wiping effect of a cooldown template |
| 14:41.01 | *** part/#wowuidev ShaneSveller (n=mellerfa@64-199-29-162.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 14:41.15 | Redguard | except a cooldown model is static and shades the whole area, where i only wish to shade the actual border that is a certain color, and I want to leave the action button's icon untainted |
| 14:41.25 | Redguard | I am having no luck figuring out how to do this |
| 14:42.28 | Lunessa | You don't want the sweeping motion, just the border to highlight in sections or something? |
| 14:42.33 | Redguard | well |
| 14:42.53 | Redguard | let's say I have a timer of 20 seconds |
| 14:43.05 | Redguard | when I start ActionButton1 has a normal border highlight |
| 14:43.19 | Redguard | such as.. ActionButton1Border:SetVertexColor(1,0,0) |
| 14:43.34 | alestane | Sounds like you need to put the cooldown model in a draw layer underneath the icon, or something like that. |
| 14:43.39 | Redguard | now at 15 seconds i want 1 o'clock through 3 o'clock to disappear |
| 14:43.56 | Redguard | and > 3 o'clock through 12 o'clock to still be highlighted red |
| 14:44.06 | Redguard | 10 seconds in, half should be red, 5 seconds.. 1/4 red |
| 14:44.09 | Redguard | etc |
| 14:44.40 | Redguard | i have no experience with the functionality of drawing in WoW |
| 14:44.43 | Lunessa | alestane: that would probably be the easiest way, and since you can move the layers around in your own buttons, that might even be fast too. |
| 14:45.14 | Redguard | what does a draw layer offer me based off the cooldown model which highlights the full area it encompasses? |
| 14:45.31 | Redguard | going to try to find references on what a draw layer is really quick |
| 14:45.55 | Lunessa | Redguard: If alestane is correct, basically the cooldown model/animation would be behind the icon, leaving only the border portion visibible. |
| 14:46.14 | alestane | Well, you make three layers, more or less..a border texture which is furthest back, a cooldown which is on top of the border, and the actual icon highest up, but smaller than the border so you can see the cooldown effect around the edges. |
| 14:46.30 | Mikk | Sounds 100% feasible to me |
| 14:46.52 | Mikk | Even just offsetting the framelevel should do it |
| 14:47.03 | Redguard | ok |
| 14:47.18 | Redguard | I am working against the default action bars for my addon |
| 14:47.26 | Redguard | would it be best to add a frame on top of current action buttons |
| 14:47.32 | Mikk | Create the border frame. Create the cooldown model as a child of the border. Create the icon. icon:SetFrameLevel(border:GetFrameLevel()+2) |
| 14:47.38 | Mikk | Or if you already have them |
| 14:47.41 | Redguard | or try to modify those buttons and modify the draw layers to perform this |
| 14:47.44 | Mikk | Just change the border's framelveel |
| 14:47.49 | Mikk | er |
| 14:47.52 | Mikk | icon's framelevel |
| 14:47.58 | Redguard | right now i've actually been using <button name>Border |
| 14:48.32 | Mikk | Try just fiddling the framelevel |
| 14:48.44 | Redguard | ok |
| 14:48.52 | Mikk | Do /print SomeButtonBorder:GetFrameLevel() and so forth, you should see the cooldown level being higher than the icon |
| 14:49.07 | Redguard | the layer Z-index idea sounds like it'd work, I'll see if I can't get that to work |
| 14:49.29 | alestane | I think the border that's built into ActionBarButtonTemplate is inside the bounds of the icon, so you might have to stretch it out or something. |
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| 14:50.15 | Redguard | ok |
| 14:50.30 | Redguard | I'll mess with it a bit and see what I can come up with |
| 14:50.40 | Redguard | it's an odd ball arena suite of addons |
| 14:51.06 | [Liquidor] | Hmm |
| 14:51.09 | Redguard | I haven't seen anything like it yet, the feature I'm working on right now.. highlights action buttons |
| 14:51.26 | Redguard | based on diminishing returns, I just got in partial (yuck) macro button support |
| 14:51.29 | [Liquidor] | How would you create a 4-level list frame? |
| 14:51.43 | [Liquidor] | As in, Category->SubCategory->Item->Content |
| 14:54.50 | Lunessa | [Liquidor]: As in, you want those as selections? |
| 14:55.01 | [Liquidor] | Well uhm |
| 14:55.26 | [Liquidor] | Category and SubCategory are probably going to be like the Addons list in the default interface option frame |
| 14:55.41 | Lunessa | I'd look at the Quest Log and use the same sort of collapsing menu structure. |
| 14:55.46 | [Liquidor] | Thinking about creating a list right next to showing all the items, then another frame on the right for content |
| 14:55.55 | [Liquidor] | Well |
| 14:55.58 | [Liquidor] | I need another level |
| 14:56.24 | [Liquidor] | Something like Windows Live Mail I guess |
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| 15:02.01 | kneeki | Is there a way to check for the existance of InterfaceOptionsFrame_OpenToFrame() ? I'd like to have both InterfaceOptionsFrame_OpenToFrame and InterfaceOptionsFrame_OpenToCategory so my addon can be used on Beta and Live w/o any bugs like that. But getglobal(InterfaceOptionsFrame_OpenToCategory) is returning empty results. =\ |
| 15:02.51 | kneeki | hmm... nvm |
| 15:03.05 | kneeki | getglobal() is workin in the Lua code, but in devtools its always "empty" |
| 15:03.07 | kneeki | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:03.42 | Legorol | kneeki: were you trying something like /dump getglobal(InterfaceOptionsFrame_OpenToCategor) |
| 15:03.49 | kneeki | Legorol: Yeah |
| 15:04.18 | Legorol | my guess would be that /dump can't distinguish between a return value of a single nil and no return value |
| 15:04.52 | Legorol | because it has to be able to handle lists of arbitrary length |
| 15:05.14 | kneeki | Mhmm, ah well though. I'm glad it works =) |
| 15:06.12 | Legorol | mm i tried, and it works for me |
| 15:06.22 | Legorol | /dump getglobal(RandomStringOfLetters) |
| 15:06.26 | Legorol | shows nil as the output |
| 15:06.50 | kneeki | Did you try /dump getglobal(InterfaceOptionsFrame_OpenToCategory) ? |
| 15:07.01 | kneeki | bah! |
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| 15:07.12 | kneeki | The same code that worked on 3.0.2 does not work on Live =\ |
| 15:08.29 | kneeki | Is there a way to check the game version in game? |
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| 15:09.05 | Legorol | kneeki: i think the problem might be a typo |
| 15:09.13 | kneeki | ? |
| 15:09.15 | Legorol | /dump getglobal(InterfaceOptionsFrame_OpenToCategory) is wrong |
| 15:09.23 | Legorol | /dump getglobal("InterfaceOptionsFrame_OpenToCategory") is right |
| 15:09.35 | kneeki | quotes? |
| 15:09.39 | Legorol | yes |
| 15:09.44 | Legorol | getglobal expects a string argument |
| 15:09.54 | alestane | You're asking for the global by name, and the name is a string. |
| 15:09.59 | Legorol | yes |
| 15:10.02 | kneeki | Yup, you were exactly right |
| 15:10.10 | Legorol | i know i am :) |
| 15:10.11 | kneeki | I forgot that dump needed a string -_- |
| 15:10.16 | Legorol | no, dump doesn't |
| 15:10.18 | Legorol | getglobal does |
| 15:10.22 | alestane | However, getglobal and setglobal are deprecated in favor of _G["name"]. |
| 15:10.25 | kneeki | err, ya |
| 15:10.47 | kneeki | alestane: Should I always use _G[] ? |
| 15:11.19 | Legorol | in the vast majority of cases, unless you have some weird interactions with environments involved |
| 15:11.51 | alestane | kneeki: it's higher-performance and more in compliance with standard Lua. I really don't know any situation where get/setglobal is preferable. |
| 15:12.03 | kneeki | Ah |
| 15:12.11 | Legorol | getglobal(x) => _G[x] |
| 15:12.23 | Legorol | getglobal("x") => _G["x"] = _G.x |
| 15:12.35 | Legorol | just get the syntax right ;-) |
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| 15:12.48 | kneeki | lol |
| 15:13.45 | Legorol | alestane: the only bizarre case i can think of is a sandbox environment that doesn't provide _G and instead provides getglobal. |
| 15:14.00 | alestane | And that is, as you say, a bizarre case. |
| 15:14.12 | Legorol | the reason for doing so may be if you want to control the use of getglobal and have your custom code for it, in which case getglobal is more efficient than _G with a metatable probably |
| 15:14.42 | Legorol | However, the vast majority of addon authors need not be concerned about such a case |
| 15:15.19 | Lunessa | Day 10 of no WoW. Someone please shoot me. |
| 15:15.19 | kneeki | And _G() is incorrect eh? |
| 15:15.30 | kneeki | Would be nice to use a word-replace =p |
| 15:15.53 | alestane | kneeki: Correct, unless there's a __call metamethod on your environment, which there normally isn't. |
| 15:16.15 | Legorol | kneeki: correct, it's incorrect, as alestane says |
| 15:16.17 | Lopeppeppy | Lunessa, have you thought of bringing your laptop to work and staying after ? *comfort* |
| 15:16.20 | Legorol | _G is a table, not a function |
| 15:16.27 | kneeki | Good point =p |
| 15:16.27 | Lopeppeppy | I'll be out of internet entirely for the end of next week, so I sympathize. |
| 15:16.33 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: Curfew makes this non-feasible. |
| 15:16.37 | alestane | Should be able to use a regex find-and-replace if you're using a decent text editor. |
| 15:16.55 | [Liquidor] | So working with globals is a good/bad idea because? |
| 15:17.17 | Legorol | i recommend using just the find part, and manually checking each instance to make sure it's getting replaced correctly |
| 15:17.23 | Legorol | once upon a time, famous story: |
| 15:17.24 | alestane | Legorol: it's perfectly doable for a simple case like that. |
| 15:17.43 | Legorol | random coding discussion: "hey, we should change all the 3-s to 4-s, as it makes the code better" |
| 15:17.49 | Legorol | response: "all right, done, there you go" |
| 15:18.02 | Legorol | first coder: "hm, actually, we are better off staying with 3-s" |
| 15:18.12 | Legorol | response: "ok i'll just change all the 4-s back to 3-s" |
| 15:18.30 | alestane | Along with everthing that had been a 4 before the first change. |
| 15:18.40 | Legorol | that's the point of the joke, alestane :o) |
| 15:18.50 | Legorol | and why find/replace code fixing can be dangerous |
| 15:19.29 | Legorol | luckily the map between getglobal and _G is one to one |
| 15:19.58 | alestane | Right. |
| 15:20.05 | Doow | code versioning ^^ |
| 15:20.38 | Legorol | the joke originates from the days only slightly later than punchcards |
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| 15:20.59 | Redguard | :o |
| 15:21.45 | Legorol | do tell |
| 15:21.46 | Lunessa | Same as the story about an insect (roach) causing a computer to malfunction. Punchard days... |
| 15:22.12 | Legorol | I heard it was a butterfly |
| 15:22.26 | Legorol | but an insect would make more sense |
| 15:22.28 | Lopeppeppy | Legorol, the jokes are so dated they're just not funny anymore, and were only funny to a select group of people (in this case, pre-teens). |
| 15:22.28 | Redguard | "As of 1.9, the available levels are: BACKGROUND, BORDER, ARTWORK, OVERLAY, HIGHLIGHT |
| 15:22.53 | Redguard | on the action buttons, the icon is the BACKGROUND layer, is there a way to do background layer - 1 for level? :/ |
| 15:22.55 | Legorol | Lopeppeppy: i'm a pre-teen at heart, do tell one at least |
| 15:23.35 | Redguard | can i use definite layer z-indexes instead of relative name levels |
| 15:23.45 | Lunessa | Need Another Seven Astronauts? |
| 15:24.03 | Legorol | lol |
| 15:24.09 | Legorol | that's... harsh |
| 15:24.25 | Legorol | Challenger? |
| 15:24.30 | Lunessa | Yes. It was. I punched the first kid to tell me that joke. |
| 15:24.51 | ReAn | [09:00] <+Legorol> /dump getglobal("InterfaceOptionsFrame_OpenToCategory") is right <---- save yourself time: _G["InterfaceOptionsFrame_OpenToCategory"] |
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| 15:25.07 | Legorol | ReAn: been covered already |
| 15:25.17 | ReAn | ah |
| 15:25.25 | ReAn | wall of text hard to read w/ no sleep |
| 15:25.30 | Legorol | I take it you are reading the logs but hasn't come to the place yet about the discussion between getglobal and _G |
| 15:25.33 | [Liquidor] | Is Ace3 any good? |
| 15:25.35 | ReAn | and only 1/2 a power-drunk in me |
| 15:25.42 | ReAn | [Liquidor]: In comparison to what? |
| 15:25.46 | [Liquidor] | Ace2 |
| 15:25.51 | ReAn | Absolutely |
| 15:25.57 | Legorol | aren't they just... different? |
| 15:26.26 | [Liquidor] | So it's a new lib? |
| 15:26.30 | ReAn | Ace2 has some poor paradigms in it, or rather, it's super complex comparatively, and tries to do too much |
| 15:26.44 | ReAn | Ace3 was a complete re-write of the system with a lot of things in mind |
| 15:27.02 | ReAn | They operate in a similar fassion tho |
| 15:27.16 | ReAn | Biggest change which i find fundamental was the removal of AceLibrary |
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| 15:28.36 | ReAn | [Liquidor]: I would highly suggest using Ace3 over Ace2, and would suggest that you don't even entertain the idea of a new project using Ace2 |
| 15:29.53 | ReAn | especially with 3.0 around the corner |
| 15:30.21 | ShaneSveller | Ace3 has much better compatibility with 3.0, definitely |
| 15:30.56 | ReAn | And better support :D |
| 15:31.58 | ReAn | The only overall downside to using Ace3 over Ace2 is the number of unported libraries you may have enjoyed from Ace2's days |
| 15:32.27 | ReAn | But that will change with time |
| 15:33.08 | ShaneSveller | What better motivation to re-write them yourself? :-) |
| 15:33.28 | [Liquidor] | Hmm next thing is, what the heck is it CallbackHandler-1.0 does? Yes I've read the page but I don't see the difference in AceEvent and CallbackHandler |
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| 15:33.53 | [Liquidor] | Is it for custom events for other addons to listen to? |
| 15:33.55 | ReAn | AceEvent is based off of CBH |
| 15:34.06 | ReAn | CBH bascially facilitates callbacks |
| 15:34.16 | Redguard | do you think using an alphamode I could use a cooldown template and a Border texture to only highlight the outside |
| 15:34.32 | |Jelly| | ~hug Peppy |
| 15:34.32 | purl | ACTION sneaks up on Peppy and suddenly hugs Peppy tightly |
| 15:34.39 | ReAn | Redguard: Can you elaborate? |
| 15:34.54 | Redguard | or would a draw layer be needed, as I'm looking in ActionButtonTemplate.xml and having trouble figuring how to fit another draw layer change in there and not break a lot of addons |
| 15:34.59 | Redguard | ok |
| 15:35.22 | ReAn | What exactly are you trying to accomplish? |
| 15:35.28 | Redguard | i want to do some sort of alpha compliment, have let's say a 10 pixel border active |
| 15:35.41 | Redguard | and everything inside that area excluding the 10 pixel border transparent |
| 15:35.54 | ReAn | Basically you wanna cut a hole in the frame? |
| 15:36.04 | Redguard | so this way in ActionButtonTemplate.xml the BACKGROUND draw layer of the button icon still shows, but I can still have a manipulated border |
| 15:36.11 | Redguard | something like that yes |
| 15:36.26 | Redguard | I either need to cut a hole in it so cooldown model doesn't modify the hole |
| 15:36.35 | ReAn | You wanna cut a hole in a Cooldown frame that is? |
| 15:36.38 | Redguard | or find some way to redo all of what ActionButtonTemplate is, which seems ugly |
| 15:36.53 | Redguard | if I can do it in a cooldown frame that'd work, yes |
| 15:36.53 | ReAn | I thought ActionButtons were secure? |
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| 15:37.24 | Redguard | i modify the action buttons in combat already using the overlay draw layers |
| 15:37.55 | ReAn | In theory, you could add a frame overtop the cooldown, that was :SetAllPoints(...), then make it's backdrop the texture underneath, and set insets to 10px |
| 15:38.02 | Redguard | my problem is when i place a cooldown frame as a child of the button, which works fine.. except the cooldown frame well, works against the overlayed border and anything inside it as well |
| 15:38.04 | ReAn | it'd work, but would be wastefull |
| 15:38.09 | Redguard | and I only want the outside to be affected |
| 15:38.37 | Redguard | are you able to open up ActionButtonTemplate.xml so I can show you more of what I mean? |
| 15:38.44 | ReAn | Er, sure, one sec |
| 15:38.48 | ReAn | Beta or Live? |
| 15:38.55 | ReAn | Or are they even different? |
| 15:38.55 | Redguard | live for now |
| 15:38.59 | Redguard | should be similar |
| 15:39.01 | ReAn | sec, lemmie extract |
| 15:39.05 | Legorol | hm, they still haven't seemed to have fixed Beta players ability to log into PTR at least in EU |
| 15:39.09 | Legorol | have they fixed it for US? |
| 15:39.27 | ReAn | k, what line? |
| 15:39.32 | Redguard | for example, ActionButton1=<button> |
| 15:39.42 | ReAn | Legorol: Using a ptr client? or the beta client? |
| 15:39.48 | Redguard | look at the layers |
| 15:39.51 | Legorol | ptr client |
| 15:39.59 | Redguard | you see the background layer is <name>Icon, yes? |
| 15:40.06 | ReAn | Legorol, no idea, i didn't bother |
| 15:40.08 | Redguard | a texture on the lowest draw layer |
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| 15:40.23 | ReAn | yea Redguard |
| 15:40.24 | ReAn | <Texture name="$parentIcon"/> |
| 15:40.29 | Redguard | and on the OVERLAY draw layer you see $parentBorder |
| 15:40.30 | Redguard | yes |
| 15:40.44 | Redguard | I am currently doing like $parentBorder:SetVertexColor(....) |
| 15:40.58 | ReAn | k |
| 15:41.06 | Redguard | and it works well, now the next step is I have timers in my code let's say 20 seconds on a timer |
| 15:41.07 | zenzelezz | $parent can only be done in XML name tags IIRC |
| 15:41.11 | ReAn | you want the cooldown to be below the border basically? |
| 15:41.14 | zenzelezz | or did I misread... |
| 15:41.20 | Redguard | zenzelezz this is pseudo concepts |
| 15:41.36 | ReAn | zenzelezz: you can use $parent in CreateFrame(...) and :CreateTexture(...) |
| 15:41.39 | Redguard | ReAn well here is my problem, at 20 seconds I want the full "$parentBorder" to show |
| 15:41.57 | Redguard | at 15 seconds I want from 12-3 o'clock to go "invisible" so to speak |
| 15:42.10 | ReAn | ah, you wanna cut the border out |
| 15:42.12 | ReAn | i see |
| 15:42.15 | Redguard | kind of like an erasing effect clock wise from 12 back around to 12 o'clock |
| 15:42.25 | Redguard | at 10 seconds, half of it should be hidden/gone |
| 15:42.26 | Redguard | yes |
| 15:42.44 | Redguard | I am unsure of the correct and most effecient way to do this, as it will be happening on multiple buttons |
| 15:42.45 | ReAn | Redguard, there's only one way i know of that you can do that |
| 15:43.06 | Redguard | my problem is the Icon is something I don't want to hide or overlap |
| 15:43.12 | ReAn | and that's manually making 20 or so versions of the border in a texture, and adjusting the tex coords every second |
| 15:43.14 | Redguard | and that happens to be the background layer, which is the lowest |
| 15:43.34 | Redguard | that sounds a bit inefficient though |
| 15:43.36 | ReAn | Kind of how LibGraph works |
| 15:43.41 | ReAn | Not really |
| 15:43.42 | Redguard | as the number of layers is undefined |
| 15:43.47 | ReAn | if it's one texture |
| 15:44.01 | ReAn | You're just redesignating what part of the texture to show |
| 15:44.07 | Redguard | here's the thing, cooldown model already makes a swiping effect (how I don't know) |
| 15:44.16 | Redguard | there has to be some way to utilize this animated effect, no? |
| 15:44.17 | ReAn | You can't hook it into alpha tho |
| 15:44.28 | ReAn | At least, I don't believe |
| 15:44.30 | Redguard | cooldown models have alpha levels |
| 15:44.34 | Redguard | 0-1 |
| 15:44.47 | Redguard | can I use this alpha level from a full black or a full white |
| 15:44.55 | ReAn | Yea, but all you can get is a transparancy enabled blackness |
| 15:44.57 | Redguard | to somehow add or subtract from the $parentBorder layer? |
| 15:45.02 | ReAn | no |
| 15:45.04 | ReAn | you cannot |
| 15:45.08 | Redguard | :( |
| 15:45.14 | ReAn | You can't do texture processing in mods |
| 15:45.25 | ReAn | all you can to is adjust the vertex colors of the frame |
| 15:45.29 | ReAn | which tints the texture |
| 15:45.31 | Redguard | if i made a whole new frame, could I do this? |
| 15:45.35 | ReAn | and change the texture coordinates |
| 15:45.37 | ReAn | no |
| 15:45.45 | ReAn | I know what you wanna do |
| 15:45.54 | ReAn | you wanna take the alpha mask from the cooldown frame |
| 15:45.59 | ReAn | and use it on a different layer |
| 15:46.02 | Redguard | ya |
| 15:46.04 | ReAn | Im curious tho |
| 15:46.14 | ReAn | Try :CreateTexture(...) on the Cooldown Frame |
| 15:46.17 | Redguard | i'm used to having a bit more control than what lua/blizzard seems to let me have |
| 15:46.19 | ReAn | im not sure how it handles textures |
| 15:46.26 | Redguard | it lets you |
| 15:46.30 | ReAn | Well yes |
| 15:46.35 | ReAn | but does it apply the alpha to it? |
| 15:47.02 | Redguard | from what i recall (was tired) the cooldown layer has no respect for alpha levels of textures |
| 15:47.06 | Redguard | i could try testing again though |
| 15:48.14 | ReAn | Then you're prolly out of luck |
| 15:48.29 | ReAn | Probably have to use the multiple textures route. |
| 15:48.31 | ReAn | Ohh |
| 15:48.32 | ReAn | wait |
| 15:48.41 | ReAn | try setting the frame backdrop |
| 15:49.41 | ReAn | You know what im talking about right? |
| 15:50.42 | Redguard | hrm |
| 15:50.59 | Redguard | not really but I am looking it up to see if I can't understand |
| 15:52.13 | Redguard | is a backdrop something I can draw against |
| 15:52.24 | Redguard | as it looks to be another layer to put textures |
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| 15:54.09 | Redguard | that might work if I knew of a way to use the border of a backdrop with the cooldown model |
| 15:54.21 | Redguard | maybe i should poke at cooldown model more, hrm |
| 15:55.03 | Redguard | what if I used an alphamode of blend |
| 15:55.15 | Redguard | and made a custom blp like the default UI uses |
| 15:55.18 | Redguard | except with a cut out |
| 15:55.31 | Redguard | I might go try that for kicks, see what it produces |
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| 16:01.27 | [Liquidor] | What's AceSerializer? An encryption? |
| 16:02.14 | cbreak | don't know what ace serializer does, but serialisation is usually the encoding of in-memory data structures into opaque data streams |
| 16:02.27 | cbreak | like for network transport or storage. |
| 16:03.08 | ShaneSveller | cbreak has it right |
| 16:03.20 | [Liquidor] | What's the point of that in WoW? |
| 16:03.39 | ShaneSveller | Omen and Recount, for example, use it for network sync between players |
| 16:03.44 | [Liquidor] | With addonmessages and target whisper..... eh if you don'twant your target to know what it is, don't send it? |
| 16:03.56 | [Liquidor] | oh ok |
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| 16:06.33 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, the purpose isn't encryption or hiding data, it's compacting data into an easy-to-send form |
| 16:12.11 | cbreak | easy-to-send and _standardized_ |
| 16:12.37 | cbreak | well, probably not a problem for WoW serialisation, but byte ordering, byte length and other issues are critical in general serialisation |
| 16:16.23 | cladhaire | you can send a table |
| 16:16.29 | cladhaire | that's what it's for |
| 16:16.37 | cladhaire | and the addon on the other end, receives a table. |
| 16:17.38 | zenzelezz | serialization is serious business |
| 16:17.50 | cladhaire | srsly |
| 16:17.57 | Lopeppeppy | rly |
| 16:18.13 | Redguard | what would be the proper way to change the alphaMode of a texture in lua |
| 16:18.39 | cladhaire | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets/Texture/SetBlendMode |
| 16:18.42 | cladhaire | Redguard: ^^ |
| 16:19.48 | Redguard | ta :) |
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| 16:26.07 | Quaiche|work | So... my guild is considering revamping our DKP/Loot system in the xpac. Anyone have any favorites? Loot council is out for us. We've been using Zero-Sum-Fixed-Price. I'm intrigues by EPGP, Ni Karma and Suicide Kings. Anyone have experience with those? |
| 16:26.56 | cbreak | Quaiche|work: we use /random 100 with some success |
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| 16:27.08 | cbreak | (with lots of discussions latched on) |
| 16:27.12 | Redguard | do you realize how much thought just went into that line Quaiche|work? |
| 16:27.23 | Quaiche|work | Yeah, there is something nice about that cbreak |
| 16:27.25 | Redguard | tell your guild to stop being so materialistic |
| 16:27.32 | Quaiche|work | Yes, Redguard. I hear ya. |
| 16:27.39 | cbreak | it's very low maintenance :) |
| 16:27.46 | Quaiche|work | This game is inherently materialistic. :) |
| 16:27.50 | Redguard | with such thought into "who gets what" |
| 16:27.55 | Redguard | you are doomed to never be happy |
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| 16:28.14 | Redguard | I would suggest they live with the decisions or guild quit, and go cry |
| 16:28.44 | Quaiche|work | Actually, people aren't unhappy. But this is the time of year (pre xpac) where these conversations come up. |
| 16:28.52 | Quaiche|work | So I thought I'd ask to see what people here are using. |
| 16:29.00 | Redguard | I find giving priority to people who are performing and contributing the most short and long term in relation to "has he got as much loot currently as the next guy" works well |
| 16:29.01 | Lunessa | We've been doing a lot of need/greed right from the default interface. 10-man loot decisions are easy. |
| 16:29.07 | Redguard | in such everyone gets geared up nearly equally |
| 16:29.33 | Redguard | "it helps this person's performance to a higher % than the other person, so give it to him" |
| 16:29.47 | Redguard | "well, it does help person A more, but he's never around so it goes to B" |
| 16:29.55 | Redguard | common sense loot system (c) |
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| 16:37.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (n=gryphon@71.216.187.10) |
| 16:37.45 | Lunessa | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/10/03/funny-pictures-to-tink-of-ebil-plan/ |
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| 16:40.43 | Lopeppeppy | awwwww. |
| 16:43.28 | Lopeppeppy | Priceless for a forum sig. http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/10/02/funny-pictures-he-eatz-for-a-dai/ |
| 16:44.25 | Lunessa | Yes, I linked it to cogwheel yesterday. |
| 16:48.37 | Lopeppeppy | Bah, Peppy is da slow. |
| 16:48.42 | Lopeppeppy | Time to put 'er down. |
| 16:49.25 | Legorol | that one is hilarously |
| 16:50.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (n=chatzill@pool-96-246-12-4.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 16:53.58 | Legorol | Lunessa: how do you handle alts/offspecs in 10-mans? |
| 16:55.08 | Legorol | also, how do you handle mages who Need on caster bracer with +hit for fire gear, Need on caster bracer with +crit for arcane gear, Need on caster bracer with +sta for tanking gear, etc. |
| 16:55.34 | Lunessa | Legorol: in my "retail" guild we simply did need/greed. We defined need as "can and will use" - and our over-arching rule of "don't be a dick." |
| 16:55.39 | ScytheBlade1 | you worry less about tards and trust in your other players a biti |
| 16:55.43 | ScytheBlade1 | *bit |
| 16:56.10 | Legorol | I wish I could do that, and whilst most of our players are trustworthy like that, the problem is the differing level of min/maxing that different players do |
| 16:56.21 | Legorol | Our most dedicated players will min/max and have different gear sets for different specs, fully optimized |
| 16:56.27 | Kraps | question: if http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27715#comments is my only helm, what do i socket? |
| 16:56.32 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-67-246-45-198.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 16:56.33 | Legorol | and I can't really tell them that they are being selfish for rolling Need appropriately |
| 16:56.38 | Kraps | prot warrior |
| 16:56.42 | Legorol | they are just trying to bring out their best performance |
| 16:57.05 | Lunessa | We /gkick people who are dicks. In the few loot drama instances we had, we kicked both the overly-greedy and the overly-bitchy complainer. - we're not a progression guild, and have better things to do with our time than let people get butt-hurt or butt-hurt others. |
| 16:57.06 | Legorol | oth, there is "average joe" who is just happy with one epic set of loot and couldn't care less if it has +hit or +crit on it |
| 16:57.25 | Legorol | Lunessa: that's nice, i wish we could do that :) |
| 16:57.59 | Lunessa | *shrug* It works for me. Then again, it didn't work for a core of people who all left at once. |
| 16:58.13 | Legorol | Kraps: I don't beleive that "to socket" is an appropriate verb, you should use "to gem" imo |
| 16:58.29 | Kraps | mmm |
| 16:58.55 | Legorol | having said that, rare or epic gems? |
| 16:58.58 | Lunessa | And another note... after the 15th or 20th time you've run a piece of 10-man content, most crap is being sharded anyway |
| 16:59.05 | Legorol | if going for rare, gem like this: |
| 16:59.05 | Kraps | "to socket" makes more sense as a verb |
| 16:59.12 | Legorol | red - regal nigthseye (dodge/sta) |
| 16:59.22 | Legorol | yellow - enduring talasite (def/sta) |
| 16:59.28 | Legorol | blue - solid star of elune (sta) |
| 16:59.45 | Kraps | just basic jems |
| 16:59.48 | Legorol | some people will tell you to gem it full with +sta only |
| 16:59.49 | Kraps | gems |
| 16:59.59 | Legorol | well, you are placing a gem into a socket |
| 17:00.05 | Legorol | both are nouns |
| 17:00.12 | Legorol | you could say that you are gemming it, or socketing it |
| 17:00.17 | Legorol | imo gemming makes more sense *shrug* |
| 17:00.31 | Legorol | when you place an enchant on your armour, you are enchanting it |
| 17:00.50 | NightHawkTheSane | Legorol: i'd say you "gem" a socket an "socket" a gem. ;) |
| 17:01.03 | Redguard | *cough* s/armour/armor/g |
| 17:01.12 | NightHawkTheSane | armoire? |
| 17:01.13 | Kraps | the ones that this guy sells http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=22227 |
| 17:01.23 | Redguard | amore :P |
| 17:01.26 | Mikk | NightHawkTheSane: idd, it's the frenchie's fault |
| 17:01.38 | NightHawkTheSane | Armoire of invincibility! |
| 17:01.46 | Kraps | ... |
| 17:02.29 | Kraps | ? |
| 17:03.22 | Kraps | did everyone leave? |
| 17:04.07 | Legorol | Redguard: since when is armour spelt as armor? |
| 17:04.17 | Legorol | Last time I checked I was using English still, and not American |
| 17:05.07 | Legorol | Kraps: platinum rule of IRC: conversations start/stop at random with people disappearing/joining at random |
| 17:05.08 | Kraps | so i should get def and sta? |
| 17:05.22 | Kraps | lol |
| 17:05.23 | alestane | Redguard: Legorol's in Europe, where they're grandfathered into older spelling structures. |
| 17:05.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 17:05.23 | Legorol | depends on the rest of your tanking gear |
| 17:05.29 | Legorol | have you reached the 490 defense threshold yet? |
| 17:05.37 | Legorol | alestane: indeed |
| 17:05.50 | Kraps | no, 388 |
| 17:05.57 | Legorol | oh boy, then you are in trouble |
| 17:06.11 | Legorol | then shove that helmet full of thick dawnstones, and enchant every piece you can with +defense |
| 17:06.28 | Legorol | you can get +defense on cloak, chest, bracer, gloves i beleive |
| 17:06.44 | Kraps | na, i've done ramps a bunch of times easy |
| 17:06.53 | Legorol | I'm a bit worried about your tanking gear though... 388 is awfully low for a level 70 prot warrior |
| 17:06.54 | Kraps | and BF a couple |
| 17:07.04 | Legorol | normal mode? |
| 17:07.05 | Kraps | lol im not 70 |
| 17:07.13 | Legorol | ah ok that explains a lot |
| 17:07.18 | Kraps | yes |
| 17:07.19 | NightHawkTheSane | if you're at 388 def.. gems won't help you :p |
| 17:07.45 | Legorol | apologies, i assumed that since we are having a serious gemming discussion, we are talking raiding here |
| 17:07.53 | Legorol | in that case, gem with whatever you fancy for fun :) |
| 17:08.02 | Kraps | lol... |
| 17:08.14 | Legorol | since it won't matter and ou will replace the item soon |
| 17:08.17 | *** part/#wowuidev ShaneSveller (n=mellerfa@64-199-29-162.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 17:08.22 | Legorol | but, looking at your uncommon gem options: |
| 17:08.34 | Kraps | so i'm overthinking this? |
| 17:08.39 | NightHawkTheSane | imo, for gear under ilevel 105ish, just slap in vendor gems |
| 17:08.46 | Legorol | red - sovereign shadow draenite, yellow - enduring deep peridot, blue - solid azure moonstone |
| 17:08.56 | Legorol | nah, i'd put in at least uncommon gems |
| 17:09.13 | Kraps | Legorol: where do you get them? |
| 17:09.15 | Legorol | the gems i listed there are uncommon, cheaply available on AH (or from your nearest JC), and are pretty balanced in terms of stats |
| 17:09.19 | NightHawkTheSane | eh, depends on how much they go for on the AH. they've gone up a lot on my realm |
| 17:09.31 | Legorol | uncommon gems are about a gold each on mine |
| 17:09.44 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, they're.. significantly more on mine, depending on the gem type |
| 17:09.51 | NightHawkTheSane | i've seen blood garnets go for 7-10g each |
| 17:10.09 | Legorol | omg |
| 17:10.17 | Legorol | i guess the brilliant glass did help |
| 17:10.18 | Kraps | i seriously need to save for an epic mount |
| 17:10.39 | Legorol | Kraps: if the market conditions are such that uncommon gems are more than a gold on two on your AH, then indeed just go for vendor gems |
| 17:10.42 | NightHawkTheSane | but yeah, honeslty I wouldn't spend more than 1-3g per gem before 70 |
| 17:10.54 | Legorol | there's a gem vendor in Honor Hold for Alliance and presumably similar for Horde |
| 17:11.09 | Legorol | the gems are crappy and don't cover all variety, but good enuff |
| 17:11.21 | Kraps | i'm in Honor Hold looking them over |
| 17:11.28 | NightHawkTheSane | its better than an empty socket. :p |
| 17:11.36 | Legorol | i suggest you make sure to get the socket bonus |
| 17:11.48 | Legorol | at that sort of gear level, with vendor gems, the socket bonus is a big difference |
| 17:12.20 | Legorol | for tanking, you want some combination of strength, defense and stamina |
| 17:13.04 | Kraps | right, but i'm using it for dps too |
| 17:13.17 | Kraps | i'm lvl 64 fyi |
| 17:13.30 | Legorol | in that case a combination of strength, crit and stamina will work |
| 17:13.52 | Legorol | it'll give you a good all around balance for both roles |
| 17:14.31 | Kraps | what else does strength increase besides AP? |
| 17:14.34 | NightHawkTheSane | Legorol: just an aside, i just checked the AH.. moonstone's are dirt cheap, shadow draeneight is 3-5g each, blood garnets range from 5g-8g uncut, and ~12g cut :P |
| 17:14.45 | NightHawkTheSane | Kraps: block value |
| 17:14.50 | Kraps | nice |
| 17:14.59 | Legorol | pre-3.0, the increase to block value is negligible |
| 17:15.13 | NightHawkTheSane | sadly, yeah. it's about 20str:1bv |
| 17:15.13 | Legorol | post-3.0 (which comes in less than two weeks most likely), the block value gain from strength is huge |
| 17:15.33 | Legorol | it will be 1 str: 2 block value |
| 17:15.41 | Legorol | bleh i mean 2 str : 1 block value |
| 17:15.42 | Kraps | now? |
| 17:15.49 | Legorol | no, not yet |
| 17:15.56 | Legorol | but when patch 3.0 is released in a copule of weeks |
| 17:16.01 | Kraps | what is it now? |
| 17:16.05 | Legorol | as NightHawkTheSane said |
| 17:16.17 | Kraps | oh |
| 17:16.26 | Legorol | now strength is mostly good for AP only |
| 17:16.51 | Legorol | once 3.0 hits, strength will be an awesome tanking stat |
| 17:16.59 | Legorol | i can't wait :o) |
| 17:17.11 | Legorol | it's also more appropriate from RP point of view |
| 17:17.18 | Legorol | a strong warrior should be a tougher tank |
| 17:17.43 | Kraps | people are saying that a war tank will be able to drop cruelty, and spec AttT |
| 17:17.59 | Legorol | was the case until they nerfed AttT |
| 17:18.08 | Legorol | in the last beta patch i believe it was |
| 17:18.13 | Legorol | now it's not so clear anymore |
| 17:18.37 | Legorol | AttT is now more appropriate for a Fury warrior dabbling in tanking |
| 17:19.46 | Kraps | the 180 armor = 1 AP? |
| 17:19.53 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah |
| 17:20.00 | Kraps | what was it before? |
| 17:20.00 | NightHawkTheSane | it used to be armor->str |
| 17:20.08 | Kraps | ah |
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| 17:21.39 | Kraps | which bring me to the next thing: i can't figure out ap/str conversions and difference |
| 17:22.44 | NightHawkTheSane | 2str = 1 ap |
| 17:23.05 | NightHawkTheSane | er |
| 17:23.08 | NightHawkTheSane | i got that wrong. |
| 17:23.12 | NightHawkTheSane | 1 str = 2 ap >< |
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| 17:23.14 | Lunessa | http://www.wowwiki.com/Category:Formulas_and_game_mechanics |
| 17:24.29 | Kraps | i keep thinking that ap is str without bv |
| 17:24.43 | Kraps | so its useless |
| 17:25.18 | NightHawkTheSane | for a warrior, that's generally the case. all other things being equal, you should generally prefer str over an equivalent amount of AP. |
| 17:25.31 | NightHawkTheSane | (STR also scales better with things like blessing of kings) |
| 17:25.36 | Kraps | i see |
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| 17:27.40 | alestane | Kraps: On the other hand, AP is generally budgeted cheaper on items than Strength AFAIK, so you get more of it. |
| 17:28.21 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: i thought AP and STR were budgeted equivalently? |
| 17:28.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 17:28.28 | alestane | I could be wrong. |
| 17:29.10 | Kraps | so a gem 4 str and one with 8 ap are the same |
| 17:29.11 | NightHawkTheSane | i think they are, it's why rogues prefer AP over STR, they only get 1 AP/STR, so half the budget is wasted. |
| 17:29.18 | NightHawkTheSane | Kraps: in terms of attack power, yes. |
| 17:29.40 | alestane | If two items otherwise equivalent are considered the same item strength if one has +20 AP and the other has +20 Str, then indeed there would be no advantage to AP except for rogues and hunters. |
| 17:29.54 | Kraps | i shouldn't get agi? |
| 17:30.02 | Kraps | for crits |
| 17:30.28 | NightHawkTheSane | Kraps: for DPS purposes, crit rating serves you slightly better than agility, but you'll want to get enough of either to keep your crit rating at a respectable level |
| 17:31.38 | NightHawkTheSane | for tanking, agility is nice as it adds dodge, but it's not often worth gemming for. |
| 17:31.48 | Kraps | mmm |
| 17:34.26 | Lunessa | http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/10/3/ |
| 17:34.47 | End | :o |
| 17:35.41 | NightHawkTheSane | <3 pa. |
| 17:36.10 | Kraps | where do i see bv? |
| 17:36.42 | Lunessa | Paper Doll, Melee section |
| 17:36.43 | NightHawkTheSane | on your character pane, select "defense" from the drop-down, and hover over 'block' |
| 17:36.55 | Lunessa | Er, right.. Defense. |
| 17:39.08 | Cairenn|afk | does anyone remember what the command is to change your name after they give you a randomly generated name? |
| 17:40.02 | Kraps | tooltips of fully gemed gear are so cool XD |
| 17:41.35 | NightHawkTheSane | Cairenn|afk: er, in wow |
| 17:41.37 | NightHawkTheSane | ? |
| 17:41.41 | NightHawkTheSane | or in irc? |
| 17:41.44 | Cairenn|afk | wow |
| 17:42.03 | NightHawkTheSane | i didn't even know there WAS a command to do that.. >.> |
| 17:42.09 | Cairenn|afk | thought there was |
| 17:42.25 | End | I always thought they forced the change on login (like they do now on beta/ptr) |
| 17:42.33 | NightHawkTheSane | only times i've had a forced name change was on character transfer, which yeah.. forces it on login |
| 17:43.26 | Kraps | i've trying to get Shadowrend Longblade like forever :( |
| 17:43.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (n=nchatzil@d64-180-72-54.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 17:44.07 | Lunessa | Cairenn|afk: Name changes are forced at login, or else you have to petition. |
| 17:49.42 | Kraps | how many of you have different cloaks for different roles? |
| 17:50.24 | NightHawkTheSane | er, i the roles are sufficiantly different, everyone should :p |
| 17:51.16 | NightHawkTheSane | a lot of people, at 70, will have 2+ sets of gear, for various specs and roles. |
| 17:51.53 | Kraps | lol, well i thought the didn't aplly to cloaks |
| 17:52.01 | Gnarfoz | Cairenn|afk: like people said: normally your character gets either renamed to an invalid name (including numbers or special characters), hence forcing you to choose a new one or just flagged for it. both still require you to log out first - ingame renaming with user supplied names happens at the char select screen =) |
| 17:52.02 | cbreak | I have three sets as mage... |
| 17:52.02 | Kraps | *apply |
| 17:52.13 | NightHawkTheSane | it applies to every equipable item that has stats on it :P |
| 17:52.19 | NightHawkTheSane | (so, not shirts/tabards :p) |
| 17:52.25 | Kraps | heh |
| 17:52.49 | Kraps | cbreak: dps, dps and dps? :p |
| 17:53.11 | cbreak | pvp, shadow res, pve (bosses), pve (trash) |
| 17:53.25 | cbreak | but my boss and trash gear sets have a huge overlap |
| 17:53.27 | NightHawkTheSane | its not -terribly- important when leveling, but its good to keep an eye on what pieces are best for what roles |
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| 18:04.43 | Cairenn|afk | Someone reported my mom's name, so she had a GM tell her she had to "go somewhere safe and log out of the game immediately". When she asked what was wrong, the GM wouldn't answer her, just told her to "log out immediately and go read the email". |
| 18:05.35 | Esine | uhhh |
| 18:05.35 | Cairenn|afk | some asswipe had reported her name as violating the naming convention - "full or partial sentence" .... "ltlwhitedove" |
| 18:05.50 | Cairenn|afk | that's not a bloody sentence, it's a descriptive name |
| 18:06.05 | Cairenn|afk | on a RP server |
| 18:06.24 | Esine | hey now |
| 18:06.28 | Esine | it's not the reporter's problem |
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| 18:06.31 | NightHawkTheSane | :( |
| 18:06.33 | Esine | it's the GMs that followed that |
| 18:06.36 | Cairenn|afk | she's been using that name since Jan 05 |
| 18:06.41 | Esine | I can report you for being an asshole but that doesnt mean GMs have to do anything abou tit |
| 18:06.59 | Cairenn|afk | and dealt with GMs on many occasions ... never had a problem |
| 18:07.12 | NeoTron | If you want to argue semantics, isn't Little White Dove a partial sentence? |
| 18:07.49 | Cairenn|afk | how is that a sentence? it's descriptive adjectives and a noun |
| 18:07.52 | Lunessa | Cairenn|afk: I'm still having a WTF moment. Your mom plays WoW? You GO girl! |
| 18:07.53 | NightHawkTheSane | even if it is, who cares? it literally had to be some asshat who was just being a douche |
| 18:07.59 | NeoTron | do you think Mushydogtrd is a good name? :P |
| 18:08.16 | Cairenn|afk | Lunessa: so does my Dad |
| 18:08.26 | Lunessa | I can't get my folks interested. |
| 18:08.31 | *** join/#wowuidev ulikemysong (n=chatzill@84.55.202.17) |
| 18:08.35 | NightHawkTheSane | Cairenn|afk: thats pretty awesome.. |
| 18:08.44 | Cairenn|afk | Lunessa: 3 generations of my family play - my parents, me, hubby, sis, bro-in-law, daughter |
| 18:08.50 | NeoTron | my dad doesn't understand it at all. all he plays is flight simulator |
| 18:08.59 | Fogger | my 60yr old uncle plays wow every day :) |
| 18:09.22 | Lunessa | *cries* At least all my friends play. |
| 18:09.23 | Fogger | wont group or raid but meh :P |
| 18:09.38 | NightHawkTheSane | my mom does her best to hide her disappointed looks when she's visiting |
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| 18:10.09 | NeoTron | back in the MC/BWL days we had a paladin healer who was in his upper 50s I think, |
| 18:10.31 | Lunessa | me wanders off in search of foodz. |
| 18:10.34 | Cairenn|afk | well, Mom is almost 63, Dad is almost 62, he just retired, and in the summer they get out do gardening, go golfing, whatever, but they need something to do in the winter |
| 18:10.57 | cbreak | Knitting not popular anymore? :) |
| 18:11.04 | NightHawkTheSane | Cairenn|afk: skiing. :D |
| 18:11.04 | Cairenn|afk | so got mom hooked on it in Jan '05, dad was hooked by Feb |
| 18:11.16 | Cairenn|afk | NightHawkTheSane: Mom's like me, can't deal with the cold |
| 18:11.23 | Cairenn|afk | cbreak: heh |
| 18:11.37 | NeoTron | they going for the gamer discount on car insurance for eldery drivers |
| 18:11.39 | NightHawkTheSane | .. don't you live in canada or something? |
| 18:11.50 | zenzelezz | Cairenn|afk: let us know if you need some help staying warm ;-o |
| 18:11.58 | Cairenn|afk | anyway, I must go hug her lots now, she's in tears thinking that she's going to lose her account |
| 18:12.30 | Cairenn|afk | zenzelezz: *wink* |
| 18:12.31 | cbreak | you can potentially get a better name now |
| 18:12.33 | cbreak | for free |
| 18:12.34 | Cairenn|afk | NightHawkTheSane: yes, yes we do |
| 18:12.38 | cbreak | if one is still free :/ |
| 18:12.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Pez (n=user@213-187-182-126.dd.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:13.18 | NightHawkTheSane | cbreak: but she probably -liked- the old name :\ |
| 18:13.42 | cbreak | yes, that's problematic :/ |
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| 18:39.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Dewin (n=Daniel@c-76-115-111-253.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
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| 18:46.06 | Industrial | http://pastey.net/97438 |
| 18:46.09 | Industrial | line 47 and 17 |
| 18:46.17 | Industrial | cant set a button to cast a spell :( |
| 18:46.31 | Industrial | the button just stays on actionbutton action 1 |
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| 18:48.17 | cogwheel | ~poke Industrial |
| 18:48.18 | purl | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind Industrial, pokes Industrial repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 18:48.27 | Industrial | ;o |
| 18:48.35 | Industrial | cogwheel: any idea? :3 |
| 18:48.44 | cogwheel | use *spell1 or just spell |
| 18:48.49 | Industrial | tried |
| 18:49.06 | cogwheel | you still should |
| 18:49.20 | cogwheel | unless you specifically mean "with the left button and no modifiers pressed" |
| 18:49.40 | Industrial | nope, everything |
| 18:49.47 | cogwheel | then just spell |
| 18:50.01 | cogwheel | and you can do just type instead of *type* |
| 18:50.07 | Industrial | 'type', 'spell' and 'spell', 'Earth Shock' ? |
| 18:50.13 | cogwheel | yep |
| 18:50.40 | cogwheel | also, you need to get rid of the ID |
| 18:50.48 | cogwheel | SetID(0) |
| 18:51.07 | Industrial | ah! |
| 18:51.09 | Industrial | there we go :3 |
| 18:51.19 | cogwheel | also, ActionBarButtonTemplate doesn't know how to use anything but action slots for its visual information |
| 18:51.44 | Industrial | so I should use ActionButtonTemplate instead? |
| 18:51.56 | cogwheel | might as well since you'll have to handle all the visual stuff yourself |
| 18:52.01 | Industrial | k |
| 18:52.19 | cogwheel | if ActionButtonTemplate doesn't inherit from SecureActionButtonTemplate, you'll also need multiple inheritance |
| 18:52.28 | cogwheel | "SecureActionButtonTemplate, ActionButtonTemplate" |
| 18:53.17 | Duman | whee |
| 18:55.25 | Industrial | hm ok it seems to work now |
| 18:55.26 | Industrial | but |
| 18:55.43 | Industrial | http://images.gammatester.com/pics/c0e2a6872d249d06c3561d9b79e7ea94.jpg |
| 18:56.08 | Industrial | mah buttinz r empty |
| 18:56.21 | kneeki | Industrial: Put something in them |
| 18:56.28 | cogwheel | also, ActionBarButtonTemplate doesn't know how to use anything but action slots for its visual information |
| 18:56.31 | Industrial | ! brilliant :P |
| 18:56.34 | cogwheel | might as well since you'll have to handle all the visual stuff yourself |
| 18:56.44 | cogwheel | :P |
| 18:57.00 | Industrial | .Icon:SetTexture() then I guess |
| 18:57.04 | Duman | BWAHAHA |
| 18:57.06 | Duman | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10544541050&postId=106926316214&sid=1#117 |
| 18:57.30 | cogwheel | Industrial: you may want to study ActionBar.lua and the ActionButton_Update function |
| 18:57.33 | cogwheel | :) |
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| 18:58.42 | Industrial | uhuh :p |
| 18:59.20 | alestane | You can get most of the default action button behavior by inheriting from ActionBarButtonTemplate. |
| 19:02.08 | NightHawkTheSane | 6k LHW crits make me happy |
| 19:02.56 | Duman | cogwheel: :) |
| 19:06.03 | jaxdahl2 | http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/03/1447248 |
| 19:06.06 | jaxdahl2 | any comments on this? |
| 19:06.25 | jaxdahl2 | The appellate court disagreed, and explicitly recognized that an open source licensor does gain an economic benefit from releasing open source software, in terms of such things as better reputation, business opportunities, and the improvement of the released software. |
| 19:07.03 | Dashkal | That ruling just gave me a reason to use the GPL... |
| 19:07.46 | Industrial | cogwheel: I see that I can get a spell texture with GetSpellTexture(id) but I', not sure how to fetch the id beginning with a spellname :P |
| 19:07.48 | jaxdahl2 | it should give you a good reason to register your copyrights, i think |
| 19:08.07 | Dashkal | I don't even know how to _do_ that in Canada |
| 19:08.08 | cogwheel | !api GetSpellInfo |
| 19:08.08 | lua_bot | Documentation for 'GetSpellInfo' can be found at http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/GetSpellInfo |
| 19:08.09 | cogwheel | I think |
| 19:08.20 | Industrial | ty |
| 19:08.22 | cogwheel | er noo |
| 19:08.25 | cogwheel | hmm... |
| 19:08.37 | jaxdahl2 | it's a pretty narrow ruling |
| 19:08.47 | Industrial | icon - The file path for the spell's icon (string) |
| 19:08.48 | Industrial | yeeees :D |
| 19:08.55 | jaxdahl2 | and it simply vacates the decision, telling the lower court to apply the 'correct' law to hear it again |
| 19:08.55 | cogwheel | oh... even better |
| 19:08.58 | Lunessa | All the good stories start with "and then we started drinking tequlia." |
| 19:09.01 | cogwheel | i was still trying to get you the id :P |
| 19:09.04 | Industrial | ^^ |
| 19:09.13 | cogwheel | Lunessa: /agree |
| 19:09.22 | Industrial | tequila \o/ |
| 19:09.42 | Sixen | Rofl... That post by Maaven was awesome. |
| 19:12.11 | Lunessa | QQ POAST! |
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| 19:22.24 | Fisker- | haha win jaxdahl2 |
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| 19:30.20 | [SW]Dodge | Cairenn|afk: any news regarding beta keys for dev's? |
| 19:30.46 | Cairenn|afk | nothing new, sorry |
| 19:30.52 | Shirik | <3 Cairenn|afk |
| 19:31.02 | Cairenn|afk | I think they may have stopped giving them out and just didn't tell me |
| 19:31.02 | [SW]Dodge | q.q "WotLK Beta Premade characters available in Europe" q.q |
| 19:32.01 | [SW]Dodge | :( |
| 19:32.08 | [SW]Dodge | </3 Blizzard |
| 19:35.08 | Duman | sixen: yes |
| 19:35.12 | *** join/#wowuidev FOX_ (n=chatzill@190.19.90.220) |
| 19:35.26 | foxlit | Try the PTRs |
| 19:36.25 | FOX_ | hi question, im trying to do an addon that tell wow to logout |
| 19:36.31 | NeoTron | I want to see WotLK Beta Premade PvE characters available worldwide |
| 19:36.45 | foxlit | And I want a pony. |
| 19:37.27 | NeoTron | foxlit: 61 pt BM talent |
| 19:38.09 | cbreak | FOX_: what's wrong with /logout? |
| 19:38.10 | FOX_ | jej here comes the question... how i do to tell wow to write the command /logout ? |
| 19:38.20 | Mikk | FOX_: http://www.wowwiki.com/API |
| 19:38.32 | NeoTron | http://1010.co.uk/gneve.html can your text editor do that? |
| 19:39.04 | Mikk | any text editor with a plugin system can |
| 19:39.29 | NeoTron | I would disagree to that statement |
| 19:39.37 | Mikk | ... but only emacs freaks would think to implement it |
| 19:39.40 | NeoTron | just because an editor has "plugins" doesn't mean it can edit videos |
| 19:40.07 | foxlit | s/"plugins"/"plugin system"/ and your point goes away :) |
| 19:40.10 | Dashkal | emacs is not an editor... it's an OS |
| 19:40.12 | cbreak | NeoTron: http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/bulletins/SB08-273.html :) |
| 19:40.30 | Shirik | if you're going to call emacs an OS, might as wel lmake sure you specify it's Windows ME |
| 19:40.40 | Mikk | yeah that's a fair match |
| 19:40.54 | Mikk | except the exit commands are different |
| 19:41.07 | Mikk | it's ctrl-alt-delete for ME. it's ctrl+z, kill %1 for emacs |
| 19:41.20 | Dashkal | Windows ME is not an OS, it's not software, it's nothing but a black hole of suck so large I'm amazed we aren't all dead for it's very existence... |
| 19:42.00 | cbreak | the inverse counter flow from the LHC is keeping the suckyness in check. Better hope it never gets a failure. |
| 19:42.06 | foxlit | And, surprisingly, I've never had a problem with it :) |
| 19:42.07 | zenzelezz | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/10/03/funny-pictures-device-in-sleep-mode/ |
| 19:42.20 | Mikk | Granted, I never personally had a problem with ME either |
| 19:42.27 | Mikk | But that's because I went from windows 3.11 to NT4 |
| 19:43.04 | NightHawkTheSane | this is kinda neat http://woodgears.ca/eyeball/ |
| 19:43.19 | *** join/#wowuidev leethal (n=augli@cm-84.215.134.225.getinternet.no) |
| 19:43.39 | zenzelezz | NT4 was pre-ME, IIRC ME was Win2000ish timeframe |
| 19:44.18 | Mikk | zenzelezz: and how right you are! |
| 19:44.23 | Mikk | i entirely skipped the win95 strain! |
| 19:44.49 | Mikk | (And, yes, "millenium edition" = released around 2000, unsurprisingly!) |
| 19:44.53 | Dashkal | NightHawkTheSane: damn thing really didn't like it when I made the "wrong" right angle :( |
| 19:45.40 | NightHawkTheSane | Dashkal: lol |
| 19:46.04 | Industrial | cogwheel: http://pastey.net/97444-3sqv:97438-1z24 |
| 19:46.15 | Industrial | cogwheel: for some reason my addon wint even show/do the addmessage's now :S |
| 19:46.19 | Industrial | wont* |
| 19:46.28 | NightHawkTheSane | hehe, http://failblog.org/2008/10/03/trolley-fail/ |
| 19:46.48 | matt1s | what is that addon called which orders your bags into item type? |
| 19:47.17 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Esamynn|Away] by ChanServ |
| 19:47.22 | Dewin | arkinventory? |
| 19:47.22 | cogwheel | Industrial: fyi, you don't need the SetID now that you're not using actionbarbuttontemplate |
| 19:47.23 | Dewin | or tbag? |
| 19:47.29 | Industrial | cogwheel: right |
| 19:47.56 | Industrial | weird, no idea why it wont load :S ampere says its loaded :S |
| 19:48.09 | cogwheel | Industrial: check for lua errors |
| 19:48.31 | Dewin | Industrial: What do you code in? |
| 19:48.57 | cogwheel | also, i'm not sure how ChatFrames behave if you addmessage them that early on in the loading process... |
| 19:49.07 | Industrial | Dewin: vim, why? |
| 19:49.07 | matt1s | thanks Dewin |
| 19:49.18 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 19:49.25 | Dewin | ahh, nvm then ;) |
| 19:49.49 | Industrial | hm my interface is messing up before this addon it seems, had lua errors disabled (apparently) and I was using an addon to show errors/callstack |
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| 19:50.14 | Industrial | sloppy :P |
| 19:51.25 | Lunessa | This is good news for me. http://www.webmonkey.com/blog/New_GIMP_2DOT6_Gives_Photoshop_a_Run_For_its_Money |
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| 19:52.20 | Dewin | nice ;) |
| 19:52.31 | Dewin | Might finally convince me to dump jasc |
| 19:52.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 19:52.59 | Lunessa | PaintShopPro doesn't suck. |
| 19:53.18 | Mikk | GIMP >>>>>>>>>>>> PSP |
| 19:53.31 | jaxdahl2 | http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/september/eubetapremades.jpg |
| 19:53.35 | jaxdahl2 | pve premades for you |
| 19:53.35 | Dewin | I'm still using PSP7ish |
| 19:53.47 | Mikk | And thank fucking god for finally getting a single window |
| 19:54.22 | Dewin | I usually use my image editor solely for quick work, which is why part of the reason I haven't switched -- no time to readjust ;) |
| 19:54.23 | jaxdahl2 | wow, that 2.6 is looking better |
| 19:54.31 | Lunessa | Dewin: I have PS5 - from more than a decade ago. :P |
| 19:54.49 | Dewin | stuck with Notetab for a loooong time as a text editor before I finally moved to Notepad++ |
| 19:54.53 | Dewin | and I still use Notetab for some things |
| 19:55.06 | Lunessa | My reason for not upgrading... $$ |
| 19:55.12 | Dewin | Mainly because the zenburn theme I downloaded doesn't quite define colors for all syntax elements. |
| 19:55.29 | jaxdahl2 | nvm, i guess they're pvp premades |
| 19:55.40 | Dewin | ~lucky Zenburn |
| 19:55.46 | Dewin | or is that not how it works |
| 19:55.57 | Dewin | http://slinky.imukuppi.org/zenburn/ |
| 19:56.20 | NeoTron | jaxdahl2: you'er incorrect |
| 19:56.29 | NeoTron | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:56.50 | NeoTron | it's not a server issue but a pre-loaded gear issue |
| 19:57.11 | jaxdahl2 | NeoTron, i corrected myself before you corrected me, so there |
| 19:57.27 | Lunessa | Vim - you'd have to give it lots of thrust to make that pig fly on my machine. |
| 19:57.44 | Dewin | I use the zenburn theme for Notepad++ |
| 19:57.46 | Dewin | I don't touch vim. |
| 19:57.59 | NeoTron | what they need is the pve gear vendors that they used for the BT PTR test for example |
| 19:58.09 | foxlit | orange-on-white should be good enough for everyone! :) |
| 19:58.24 | NeoTron | let me buy a "DK DPS Kit" or "DK Tank Kit" from a vendor :P |
| 19:58.25 | Dewin | problem is there are some syntax elements defined by notepad++ that aren't in the zenburn theme, so I get bright white background text scattered randomly sometimes |
| 19:58.36 | NeoTron | or at least give us a bunch of hundred of badges |
| 19:58.44 | NeoTron | or a thousand or somethin |
| 19:58.48 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: thing is, i think they want to evaluate how easy/well someone can gear up naturally |
| 19:58.48 | Dewin | How about a vendor that sells badges? |
| 19:58.52 | Dewin | it'd be a new type of 'badge vendor' |
| 19:59.02 | NightHawkTheSane | without artificially inflating gear levels |
| 19:59.15 | jaxdahl2 | main thing i want is a premade priest i can copy to the non-premade US server to do 25 man razuvious when we have no priests around |
| 19:59.21 | NeoTron | NightHawkTheSane: but that's what northrend is for |
| 19:59.26 | Lunessa | foxlit: my closet. |
| 19:59.37 | NeoTron | and you can't possibly say full pvp gear is constructuve testing of pve content of any sorts |
| 19:59.53 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: no, its not, but thats not why the pvp premades are there :p |
| 19:59.54 | NeoTron | some specs/classes especially are almost useless (DW classes with zero hit for example) |
| 20:00.15 | NeoTron | my point is they should have pve premades for pve testing |
| 20:00.16 | Tem | jaxdahl2: 25man raz still requires a priest? |
| 20:00.18 | Tem | laaaaaame |
| 20:00.22 | NeoTron | give us l80 heroic level gear |
| 20:00.25 | jaxdahl2 | two priests, tem. |
| 20:00.30 | Tem | laaaaaame |
| 20:00.33 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: *shrug* they clearly don't see that as necessary, and I honestly don't disagree |
| 20:00.42 | jaxdahl2 | faerlina also requires a priest |
| 20:00.52 | jaxdahl2 | unless you're hardcore enough to have 100% frenzy uptime |
| 20:00.56 | Tem | jaxdahl2: was it you that said you could reach untouchable with cooldowns? |
| 20:01.02 | jaxdahl2 | yes |
| 20:01.03 | Lunessa | ... jonesing for WoW time. |
| 20:01.15 | Tem | I noticed last night that with the UA glyph, I can hit 92.8% avoidance |
| 20:01.24 | Tem | that seems pretty broken imo |
| 20:01.29 | jaxdahl2 | do you have frigid dreadplate? |
| 20:01.31 | NeoTron | NightHawkTheSane: I'm not surprised they don't care about pve - that's like nromal blizzard style! |
| 20:01.32 | Tem | aye |
| 20:01.37 | jaxdahl2 | lichborne? |
| 20:01.47 | NeoTron | Tem: but for how long? |
| 20:01.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Tem|work (i=d195b804@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a3428b5478ca6fa4) |
| 20:01.53 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Tem|work] by ChanServ |
| 20:01.59 | jaxdahl2 | in a 10 man last night i was at 62.5% raid buffed, no cooldowns up |
| 20:02.07 | Tem|work | oh, and I have no raid buffs |
| 20:02.09 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: that's just tripe. its not that they don't care about pve, it's that giving out free gear doesn't serve their testing/evaluation needs. |
| 20:02.18 | jaxdahl2 | i could hit 110%+ avoidance |
| 20:02.34 | Tem|work | 62.5% including blade barrier or not? |
| 20:02.38 | jaxdahl2 | not |
| 20:02.42 | Tem|work | wowzers |
| 20:02.51 | NightHawkTheSane | Handing out gear/premades only serves to open up content to people who otherwise wouldn't be able to do it. With BT on the PTR, they did it to expand the range of testers beyond those ALREADY geared up for it. |
| 20:03.16 | NeoTron | NightHawkTheSane: except it does serve at testing naxxramas with the level / type of gear it's meant to be tested with |
| 20:03.19 | Dewin | Giving out uber lv80 gear serves no testing purpose if the problem is that the encounters are too hard/class balance is poor to get to that gear in a regular setting |
| 20:03.29 | jaxdahl2 | in ipractice, i'm at over 70% avoidance vs raid bosses |
| 20:03.38 | Tem|work | that's broken |
| 20:03.38 | jaxdahl2 | 72.8% vs patchwerk last night |
| 20:03.42 | NightHawkTheSane | For what's effectvly only the first tier of raiding, gear vendors/premades serves no purpose at all. Part of the thing that needs to be evaluated is how well a person can gear up normally, and how the instances play with natural gearing, not arficial gearing |
| 20:03.44 | Tem|work | it makes us terrible tanks |
| 20:03.46 | jaxdahl2 | http://jax2.zenblue.net/sws2/sws-patchwerk-1222997270/actor_0x000000000005b2e1.html |
| 20:03.56 | NeoTron | Dewin: "uber l80 gear" => pve 5-man gear, heroic level |
| 20:03.58 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: no, it really doesn't |
| 20:04.01 | NeoTron | which is the expected level of gear |
| 20:04.10 | NeoTron | NightHawkTheSane: and why not ? |
| 20:04.12 | jaxdahl2 | 71.8% vs grobbulus |
| 20:04.29 | jaxdahl2 | 70.6% vs gluth |
| 20:04.43 | NeoTron | NightHawkTheSane: how does it serve testing of an instance when everyone has >20k health, no mana regen and no spell hit, no defense and minimal avoidance etc? |
| 20:04.54 | NightHawkTheSane | .. i JUST said. Giving people the "perfect set of gear" does nothing to evaluate the difficulty of the instance as an entry-level instance, for people who DONT have that. |
| 20:05.06 | jaxdahl2 | 70.5% vs thaddius, 66 vs stalagg, 72.4% vs feugen |
| 20:05.09 | Tem|work | jaxdahl2: what server is this on? |
| 20:05.49 | jaxdahl2 | lich king |
| 20:05.49 | Tem|work | also, what is that link? |
| 20:05.51 | NeoTron | NightHawkTheSane: but people are expected to have 5-man heroic type gear for naxxramas |
| 20:05.55 | jaxdahl2 | statiscl parse |
| 20:06.00 | Tem|work | is that your own homebrew wws? |
| 20:06.09 | NightHawkTheSane | NeoTron: and, hey, there's 5 mans and heroics available to do! SHOCKING |
| 20:06.10 | jaxdahl2 | check the link on the bottom |
| 20:06.11 | NeoTron | I predict stumbling steps prior to that sure, but a lot of people will come in with full swp/t6 gear too |
| 20:06.20 | jaxdahl2 | http://code.google.com/p/stasiscl/ |
| 20:06.24 | jaxdahl2 | very nice and easy to use |
| 20:06.27 | NeoTron | NightHawkTheSane: right because constructive testing of raid content is to first spend 4 weeks running 5-mans |
| 20:06.30 | jaxdahl2 | i can -tail my wowcombatlog |
| 20:06.31 | NightHawkTheSane | no, a LOT of people won't a tiny percentage of the wow base will have t6/sw gear |
| 20:06.42 | NeoTron | I've run quite a few heroics so far and dont' think I've really gotten any upgrades |
| 20:06.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 20:06.52 | jaxdahl2 | perl based so i can hack it too |
| 20:06.52 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 20:07.00 | jaxdahl2 | i can check my blade barrier uptime |
| 20:07.02 | NeoTron | think I have some 50 badges or so |
| 20:07.08 | Shirik | rawr |
| 20:07.12 | jaxdahl2 | 90%+ on patchwerk, it was 25% or so before the blade barrier change |
| 20:07.14 | Gryphen | ono i esceared of teh rawr! i need a huggle. |
| 20:07.44 | Dewin | So how far would you people in beta say current T5/T6ish gear will last? |
| 20:07.58 | NeoTron | Dewin: it'll work in early t7 raiding/heroics |
| 20:08.07 | NeoTron | but will be replaced with gear from both |
| 20:08.11 | Tem|work | jaxdahl2: why on earth was your uptime so low? |
| 20:08.11 | NeoTron | oh wait |
| 20:08.12 | NeoTron | t6 |
| 20:08.12 | NightHawkTheSane | ^ |
| 20:08.14 | Dewin | which starts at what level? |
| 20:08.17 | NeoTron | t5 is high 70s |
| 20:08.25 | Dewin | ah |
| 20:08.28 | NeoTron | level 80 normal instances will clearly be better |
| 20:08.40 | Dewin | so t6 will last thru 80 roughly, t5 thru 7-76ish? |
| 20:08.41 | NeoTron | and you'll probably see some upgrades mid 70s |
| 20:08.43 | jaxdahl2 | Tem|work, it's harder than you think to keep all 6 runes occupied all the time and think about other cooldowns you need to hit |
| 20:08.45 | Tem|work | jaxdahl2: I had no problem keeping nearly 100% uptime without the bb change |
| 20:08.47 | Dewin | s/7-/75/ |
| 20:08.55 | Dewin | ~fail me |
| 20:08.56 | purl | dewin, you Fail! |
| 20:09.01 | NightHawkTheSane | Dewin: in general, yeah, but there'll obviously be exceptions |
| 20:09.03 | Tem|work | then again, I'm not fighting boss level mobs |
| 20:09.13 | jaxdahl2 | sometimes i'm concentrating on other things |
| 20:09.14 | Tem|work | so my chance to be parried and miss much lower |
| 20:09.15 | NeoTron | t6 might last until ~78-80 pre-instances |
| 20:09.18 | Dewin | I figure there'll be some exceptions anyways, I have a few pieces of kara-level gear still |
| 20:09.31 | Dewin | I'm also instance-heavy |
| 20:09.37 | NeoTron | but tyou might still replace things earlier due to better stats for leveling specifically |
| 20:09.51 | jaxdahl2 | http://jax2.zenblue.net/dk/items.htm, tem, right side is my gear list, not up to date currently |
| 20:10.11 | jaxdahl2 | i have bolstered legplates with wotlk blue leg enchants and +24 stam in belt and legs |
| 20:10.23 | NeoTron | jaxdahl2: do you ever dps? if so what spec/and dps do you see? |
| 20:10.31 | NeoTron | I'm curious what a naxx-geared DK can do |
| 20:11.06 | jaxdahl2 | i haven't DPSed in a while, but if i do, i will spec unholy/wandering plague |
| 20:11.09 | NeoTron | jaxdahl2: how did you come up with the stat weights? |
| 20:11.26 | jaxdahl2 | the stat weights are avoidance based only |
| 20:11.33 | jaxdahl2 | i didn't factor in hit/expertise/stamina |
| 20:11.38 | jaxdahl2 | which is important too |
| 20:11.47 | jaxdahl2 | the armor weight is worthless now |
| 20:11.51 | NeoTron | in the bottom left you have weights for things like haste etc |
| 20:12.18 | jaxdahl2 | oh, the dps weights.. those are weights i calculated a while ago, pretty out of date now |
| 20:12.32 | jaxdahl2 | it was kind of arbitrary, i took some warrior weightings |
| 20:12.34 | Fogger | cant access the premade copy page anymore :O |
| 20:12.37 | Fogger | "The template character copy queue is currently full. " |
| 20:12.38 | jaxdahl2 | and put in some numbers that felt 'right' to me |
| 20:12.53 | NeoTron | heh "touchy feely crafting" |
| 20:13.27 | jaxdahl2 | not very math based, i go to elitist jerks where there are people with way more time on their hands to debate and theorycraft, then i take their digested thoughts and try out some stuff |
| 20:13.48 | jaxdahl2 | unholy DK can really shine on fights like this: http://jax2.zenblue.net/sws/sws-noth-1222574732/index.html |
| 20:14.08 | NeoTron | aoe fights |
| 20:14.09 | NeoTron | yes |
| 20:14.20 | Fogger | erm, as I said that my char was copied & the copy page is again active :) |
| 20:14.23 | NeoTron | I am aware of that - only way I managed to outdps a ret pally |
| 20:14.49 | jaxdahl2 | http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=40426 i use this instead of the sand-worn band |
| 20:15.24 | NeoTron | I'm curious how blood and unholy compare on single target fights |
| 20:15.25 | jaxdahl2 | even though sand-worn band provides more avoidance |
| 20:15.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub) |
| 20:15.57 | NeoTron | BoE... |
| 20:16.03 | jaxdahl2 | neotron, http://jax2.zenblue.net/sws/sws-thaddius-1222563141/index.html |
| 20:16.06 | NeoTron | are they movign towards putting some items as BoE from raid bosses? |
| 20:16.09 | jaxdahl2 | blood & unholy DK |
| 20:16.31 | jaxdahl2 | NeoTron, i don't know if that's a bug or not, but quite a few things in heroics are BOE, not all, so i don't know if that's their intention or not |
| 20:16.42 | jaxdahl2 | sand-worn band drops off several bosses |
| 20:16.43 | NeoTron | sort of hard fight to compare since you get the dmg bonus |
| 20:16.50 | NeoTron | don't happen to have say patchwerk? :P |
| 20:17.06 | NeoTron | It would be awesome if they move some items, especially ones more likely to not have users, as boe |
| 20:17.11 | NeoTron | would make DEing much less of an issue |
| 20:17.23 | jaxdahl2 | patchwerk: http://jax2.zenblue.net/sws/sws-patchwerk-1222555081/index.html |
| 20:17.32 | NeoTron | and not a "oh shit, our 1 hunter is out today and his <zomgitem> dropped" |
| 20:17.40 | NeoTron | man you have a lot of combat parses :P |
| 20:17.57 | jaxdahl2 | http://jax2.zenblue.net/sws/ this is last week's build, 25 man raid |
| 20:18.03 | NeoTron | wow the DK dps was horrid there |
| 20:18.08 | jaxdahl2 | http://jax2.zenblue.net/sws2/ 10 man raid, just a few fights, build 9014 |
| 20:18.20 | jaxdahl2 | no dps DKs though |
| 20:18.23 | NeoTron | almsot half that of the top dpsers |
| 20:18.38 | Industrial | 4k dps? |
| 20:18.39 | jaxdahl2 | and the gear spread is pretty big too |
| 20:18.40 | Industrial | W H A T? |
| 20:18.44 | Industrial | >_O |
| 20:19.09 | jaxdahl2 | 5k+ on loatheb, Industrial :D |
| 20:19.18 | jaxdahl2 | 6.5k on thaddius |
| 20:19.22 | Industrial | T_T |
| 20:19.58 | NeoTron | unholy seems to be the way to go right now though |
| 20:20.18 | NeoTron | esp since it clearly does best trash dps too |
| 20:20.37 | jaxdahl2 | i like the changes they made to frost tanking |
| 20:20.48 | jaxdahl2 | frost strike change was really needed |
| 20:21.00 | jaxdahl2 | and rune strike seems like it fixed most threat problems |
| 20:21.10 | NightHawkTheSane | well, that was a short and odd job interview |
| 20:21.14 | jaxdahl2 | i hope to get a new tier weapon soon, still using titansteel destroyer |
| 20:21.17 | NeoTron | I'm still curious about frost |
| 20:21.30 | NeoTron | I wanted to try DW frost/unholy mostly for fun |
| 20:21.34 | NeoTron | but ofc don't have the gear for ti |
| 20:21.44 | Gngsk | crc mismatch, can't install ptr, someone help! |
| 20:21.51 | jaxdahl2 | i think rune strike actually overrides your autoattack damage, it's not an additional attack |
| 20:21.56 | jaxdahl2 | does heroic strike work the same way? |
| 20:21.59 | NeoTron | yes |
| 20:22.01 | NightHawkTheSane | jaxdahl: yes to both |
| 20:22.02 | Shirik | corrupted file, Gngsk, try downloading again |
| 20:22.19 | jaxdahl2 | they did up it to 200% weap damage |
| 20:22.20 | Gngsk | Shirik, like, delete what I already have and totally redownload? cause I ran the downloader and it checked out |
| 20:22.23 | NightHawkTheSane | rune strike (and heroic strike) are on-next-attack abilities, which replace your next auto-attack with it's own attack |
| 20:22.35 | Shirik | CRC is a checksum |
| 20:22.41 | Shirik | so if that's the error, something's corrupted |
| 20:22.44 | jaxdahl2 | i've seen 5k+ rune strikes |
| 20:22.45 | Gngsk | ok |
| 20:22.49 | Shirik | whether or not it's your side may be in question |
| 20:22.59 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, rune strike is 200% damage, and hits moronically hard :p |
| 20:23.02 | Shirik | (Has anyone else reported this problem? I don't use the PTR for 3.0) |
| 20:23.15 | NightHawkTheSane | but it's basically designed to be a tanking ability for semi-reliable threat gen |
| 20:23.24 | jaxdahl2 | i should be doing 25 man raid today and tomorrow |
| 20:23.32 | jaxdahl2 | i will probably do frost tank today and unholy tank tomorrow |
| 20:23.33 | jaxdahl2 | to compare |
| 20:23.43 | Gngsk | well I guess I'll try a full redownload |
| 20:24.16 | jaxdahl2 | also the increased threat from DnD is much better, was really needed |
| 20:24.24 | jaxdahl2 | i'm much more likely to use it now |
| 20:24.33 | jaxdahl2 | i didn't before b/c the rune cost was so high |
| 20:25.34 | NightHawkTheSane | are you referring to single-mob fights? or just in general? |
| 20:25.41 | jaxdahl2 | trash pulls mostly |
| 20:26.08 | jaxdahl2 | i drop it, then wait a beat or two, then pull, IT->PS->pestilence, then my DnD runes are almost ready and I can hit hungering cold or howling blast/blood boil and build threat on a single mob with frost strike/rune strike |
| 20:26.23 | NightHawkTheSane | ahh |
| 20:26.24 | NeoTron | do yuou find that hungering cold is of any use? |
| 20:26.33 | jaxdahl2 | it's very situational |
| 20:26.50 | NeoTron | seems more like an oh shit ability |
| 20:27.03 | NeoTron | which mostly is reverted since all pulls seems to be full out aoe fests :P |
| 20:27.04 | jaxdahl2 | if a bunch of mobs are casting, it can interrupt their casts |
| 20:27.22 | jaxdahl2 | grand widow faerlina trash, for example |
| 20:27.45 | jaxdahl2 | glyphed DnD + hungering cold => pull 2 packs at once |
| 20:27.48 | NeoTron | but with the cooldown it's not hugely useful as an interrupt |
| 20:27.57 | NeoTron | glyphed DnD is good |
| 20:28.01 | NightHawkTheSane | you know, it almost feels like HB should be buffed and swapped with HC. |
| 20:28.09 | NeoTron | definitely will be one of my majors, even as dps, since it helps mitigate damage |
| 20:28.15 | jaxdahl2 | NightHawkTheSane, that'd be awful |
| 20:28.40 | jaxdahl2 | my current major glyphs are icy touch, unbreakable armor, death and decay |
| 20:28.55 | jaxdahl2 | minors are.. pestilence, horn of winter, and raise dead |
| 20:29.03 | jaxdahl2 | i think i should replace raise dead with something else |
| 20:29.05 | NightHawkTheSane | jaxdahl: why? if you're deep frost enough for HB, you're probably going all the way to tundra stalker anyway |
| 20:29.30 | jaxdahl2 | oh, thought you meant something else |
| 20:29.45 | jaxdahl2 | ie, making HC use UF and HB use runic power |
| 20:29.51 | NightHawkTheSane | oh, no. :p |
| 20:29.58 | NightHawkTheSane | i meant swapped places in the tree |
| 20:30.05 | jaxdahl2 | not a bad idea |
| 20:31.21 | jaxdahl2 | if they do that.. |
| 20:31.24 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@ti500710a080-1350.bb.online.no) |
| 20:31.31 | jaxdahl2 | change HC to an aoe chains of ice |
| 20:32.03 | jaxdahl2 | instead of freeze |
| 20:32.15 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, obviously both spells would have to be tweaked to appropriate levels. but it might make HC usable in less situational places, and make HB much more of a powerful aoe tool |
| 20:34.17 | jaxdahl2 | i like this sudoku: 15xxxxxxx 3xx9xxxxx x4xx57xxx x3xx2149x xx1x6x3xx x9634xx7x xxx68xx6x xxxxx4xx3 xxxxxxx58 |
| 20:34.23 | jaxdahl2 | left to right, top to bottom |
| 20:36.03 | p3lim | does blizzard have some table with reputation colors? |
| 20:36.28 | foxlit | Green/yellow/red, what else do you want? |
| 20:36.34 | p3lim | ltblue |
| 20:36.38 | p3lim | (exalted) |
| 20:36.53 | p3lim | just wondering if theres a table for it already |
| 20:38.06 | jaxdahl2 | 7th line should read xxx58xx6x, sorry |
| 20:38.09 | foxlit | You're talking about the beta client, then? |
| 20:38.34 | NightHawkTheSane | p3lim: check framexml and see where they get the colors from? |
| 20:39.18 | nuoHep | p3lim, FACTION_BAR_COLORS |
| 20:39.41 | NightHawkTheSane | nuoHep: tsk tsk, make the boy find it himself :p |
| 20:40.11 | p3lim | thanks nuoHep |
| 20:42.19 | Lunessa | So bored. |
| 20:43.54 | digmouse | why |
| 20:43.55 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: be amused? http://flickr.com/photos/julianbleecker/182075416/ |
| 20:44.34 | Lunessa | OBEY ORDERS |
| 20:44.49 | NightHawkTheSane | hehe :) |
| 20:48.22 | cogwheel | i like the next photo in that album better |
| 20:51.53 | Lunessa | Am I the only person who doesn't think totems are totally broken? |
| 20:52.13 | cogwheel | i don't. But i neither play a shaman nor pvp |
| 20:52.19 | cogwheel | :P |
| 20:52.39 | Lunessa | Dispel vs kill the totem. |
| 20:52.43 | cogwheel | so anyone's free to convince me ;) |
| 20:52.48 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=sioraioc@94-192-60-10.zone6.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:53.10 | Lunessa | I guess I'm just not convinced that totems suck. Maybe because I don't PvP. |
| 20:53.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Nargiddley (n=narg@203-97-236-74.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 20:54.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Tem (i=d195b804@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 20:54.16 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Tem] by ChanServ |
| 20:56.21 | cogwheel | someday they should make a pally or priest talent called Fundamentalism |
| 20:57.18 | *** join/#wowuidev RockSlice (i=kvirc@c-76-123-69-54.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 20:59.14 | Lunessa | It would be a Discipline tree talent for priests, and a Retribution tree talent for Paladins. |
| 21:01.22 | *** join/#wowuidev cladhair_ (n=jnwhiteh@94-192-60-10.zone6.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:01.53 | Lunessa | Priest, Discipline 20 points in tree: Your unshakable faith in the light removes all fear and movement impairing effects. 3 min cooldown. |
| 21:02.12 | [Liquidor] | p3lim check the blizzard ui |
| 21:02.18 | p3lim | already got it |
| 21:02.27 | p3lim | just having some odd issues using it |
| 21:03.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Slix (i=slix00@bnc2.shellium.org) |
| 21:03.45 | Lunessa | Paladin, Retribution 40 points in tree: Critical strikes against you heal you for 3% of your health. |
| 21:03.49 | Lunessa | There. :P |
| 21:03.53 | alestane | Can on e use the value of "positive infinity" in lua? |
| 21:04.35 | Josh_Borke | cannot parse that statement |
| 21:04.45 | Josh_Borke | s/statement/question/ |
| 21:04.51 | Josh_Borke | can on e use? |
| 21:05.00 | Josh_Borke | lua> math.huge > 0/0 |
| 21:05.01 | zenzelezz | one |
| 21:05.01 | lua_bot | Josh_Borke: false |
| 21:05.08 | Josh_Borke | lua> math.huge >= 0/0 |
| 21:05.09 | lua_bot | Josh_Borke: false |
| 21:05.11 | Josh_Borke | lua> math.huge >= 1/0 |
| 21:05.12 | lua_bot | Josh_Borke: true |
| 21:05.16 | Josh_Borke | lua> 0/0 |
| 21:05.17 | lua_bot | Josh_Borke: nan |
| 21:05.21 | Josh_Borke | lua> 1/0 |
| 21:05.22 | lua_bot | Josh_Borke: inf |
| 21:05.47 | zenzelezz | lua> +#.INF |
| 21:05.48 | lua_bot | zenzelezz: luabot:1: unexpected symbol near '+' |
| 21:05.48 | Josh_Borke | lua> -1/0 == -1 * math.huge |
| 21:05.49 | lua_bot | Josh_Borke: true |
| 21:05.55 | Josh_Borke | lua> -1/0 |
| 21:05.56 | lua_bot | Josh_Borke: -inf |
| 21:06.11 | alestane | lua> math.huge > 1/0 |
| 21:06.11 | lua_bot | alestane: false |
| 21:06.26 | jaxdahl2 | lua> math.huge == 1/0 |
| 21:06.27 | lua_bot | jaxdahl2: true |
| 21:06.38 | alestane | lua> math.huge |
| 21:06.38 | jaxdahl2 | lua> math.huge |
| 21:06.39 | lua_bot | alestane: inf |
| 21:06.39 | lua_bot | jaxdahl2: inf |
| 21:06.47 | alestane | So it's the same. |
| 21:06.58 | alestane | lua> math.huge - 1 |
| 21:06.59 | lua_bot | alestane: inf |
| 21:07.00 | jaxdahl2 | lua> 1/0+1>1/0 |
| 21:07.01 | lua_bot | jaxdahl2: false |
| 21:07.06 | alestane | lua> math.huge + 1 |
| 21:07.07 | lua_bot | alestane: inf |
| 21:07.13 | jaxdahl2 | infinity^infinity |
| 21:07.32 | alestane | lua> math.huge == inf |
| 21:07.33 | lua_bot | alestane: false |
| 21:07.45 | *** part/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@adsl-068-159-119-207.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:08.34 | jaxdahl2 | lua> math.huge > nil |
| 21:08.35 | lua_bot | jaxdahl2: luabot:1: attempt to compare nil with number |
| 21:08.43 | jaxdahl2 | infinity is not a number! |
| 21:09.05 | foxlit | it's a letter, clearly! |
| 21:09.12 | Lunessa | Bah. Square root of negative two. :P |
| 21:11.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=muffins@c-76-27-160-125.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 21:12.17 | Lunessa | Huzzah! Boil water order lifted. I can sleep an extra 10 mins each morning since I don't have to boil water to brush my teeth! |
| 21:12.33 | kd3 | grats! |
| 21:12.49 | Neuro_Medivh | lol, why did you boil every morning? |
| 21:13.12 | Neuro_Medivh | why not boil a big pot and keep it in a water bottle for brushing |
| 21:13.39 | Lunessa | Because I also boiled enough for shaving. |
| 21:13.58 | Lunessa | Now I can just use the water from the tap. |
| 21:14.05 | Neuro_Medivh | just curious, how did you shower? |
| 21:14.18 | Lunessa | At work, in the health ceneter |
| 21:14.21 | Lunessa | center |
| 21:14.32 | Neuro_Medivh | ok... was worried you were taking Irish Baths |
| 21:14.57 | Lunessa | No salt water - unless I wanted to get all sandy. :P |
| 21:17.56 | alestane | lua> math.huge > 0 |
| 21:17.57 | lua_bot | alestane: true |
| 21:18.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Jim-Bim (n=chatzill@ip-77-25-87-12.web.vodafone.de) |
| 21:18.28 | foxlit | lua> (math.huge - 1) == math.huge -- far more interesting |
| 21:18.28 | lua_bot | foxlit: true |
| 21:19.45 | Josh_Borke | lua> math.sqrt(-1) |
| 21:19.45 | lua_bot | Josh_Borke: nan |
| 21:19.51 | Josh_Borke | lua> math.sqrt(-2) |
| 21:19.51 | lua_bot | Josh_Borke: nan |
| 21:19.53 | Josh_Borke | lua> math.sqrt(-4) |
| 21:19.54 | lua_bot | Josh_Borke: nan |
| 21:19.55 | zenzelezz | "never give torch of the damned to holy paladins on offspec. next day they'll be in their blue gear CRUSADER STRIKE WOOP" o_O |
| 21:23.48 | cogwheel | lua> math.sqrt(outyournose) |
| 21:23.48 | lua_bot | cogwheel: luabot:1: bad argument #1 to 'sqrt' (number expected, got nil) |
| 21:24.06 | Duman | heh |
| 21:25.37 | Lunessa | Ok folks, I'm out. Working tomorrow so I'll be online. Ciao. |
| 21:29.12 | kd3 | new patch |
| 21:31.04 | Fogger | I swear I saw a wrath version of ACP on wowi, where'd it go? |
| 21:32.17 | Neuro_Medivh | ACP? |
| 21:32.51 | Dashkal | http://strangelydrawn.com/blog/uploaded_images/framed-704863.jpg |
| 21:32.57 | Fogger | Addon Control Panel |
| 21:34.52 | Neuro_Medivh | was it off the ace svn? |
| 21:35.08 | Neuro_Medivh | cause that would explain the lack of it, since iirc the svn is down |
| 21:35.23 | Fogger | I dont think wowi syndicated with ace anyway |
| 21:35.29 | Fogger | does it? |
| 21:35.52 | Fogger | sylvanaar must've removed it due to complications |
| 21:36.05 | Gnarfoz | Neuro_Medivh: not really down, just moved |
| 21:36.26 | Gnarfoz | Fogger: it doesn't, and I think I used that version, too ^^ |
| 21:36.29 | kneeki | Why would you use ACP when there is one built into the WoW Interface that functions just fine? |
| 21:36.41 | kneeki | Unless its broken to crap and I have no idea... |
| 21:37.11 | Fogger | ACP is in-game & allows creating sets etc |
| 21:37.32 | Fogger | its simply imba |
| 21:38.10 | Gnarfoz | I've not even used the set management, it being in-game was enough for me to have it |
| 21:39.02 | Fogger | Tekkub's AMPere does the in-game bit for now |
| 21:39.51 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: where did the ace svn go anyway? |
| 21:39.54 | NeoTron | ampere lacks one important feature - profiles |
| 21:40.19 | NeoTron | I had a raiding set, auction house character set, questing non-raiding etc |
| 21:40.28 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: there should be a read-only version of it still online at oldsvn.wowace.com, IIRC |
| 21:40.34 | Fogger | most annoying thing with AMPere is the amount of clicks required to access it, need to create a macro to load it instead of going through blizz interface to find it |
| 21:40.48 | Gnarfoz | yes, but you see, simplicity is key! |
| 21:40.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Kolie (n=kraft@adsl-070-154-141-174.sip.bna.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:40.55 | Gnarfoz | even if it hurts usability :p |
| 21:40.58 | Kolie | hullo |
| 21:41.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: erm, okay, that doesn't quite answer my question though. what happened to make that change neccessary? :p |
| 21:41.14 | Tekkub | Amp lacks profiles because AddonLoader >>> profiles |
| 21:41.51 | NightHawkTheSane | Fogger: ... clicks to access it? i think there's a slash command for it, isn't there? |
| 21:42.16 | NeoTron | Tekkub: in some cases possibly so but overall I disagree |
| 21:42.25 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: uhm I'm not going to expand on that because enough's been written to fill books with it :D instead, I'll try to find you a link to the most relevant announcement post form 'back then' |
| 21:42.33 | NeoTron | for example think tourguide/questhelper/lightheaded type addons |
| 21:42.44 | NeoTron | how do you "autoload" a heavy memory use quest addon ? |
| 21:42.45 | Tekkub | LH is LoD already |
| 21:42.55 | NeoTron | sure it is |
| 21:42.58 | Tekkub | TG loads delayed |
| 21:43.08 | NeoTron | but I often open my quest log without needing to do have LH data |
| 21:43.19 | NeoTron | only really want any such addons on a character that quests |
| 21:43.26 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: that's fine. i haven't really followed ace politics & stuff for a while now, so i haven't seen all that's been written, my bad :) |
| 21:43.26 | Tekkub | and LH doesn't load that data till you DO need it |
| 21:43.35 | Tekkub | so disable it |
| 21:43.38 | NeoTron | the resolution of LH is not enough though |
| 21:43.47 | NeoTron | Tekkub: exactly, that is what the profiles are for :) |
| 21:43.51 | Tekkub | no |
| 21:44.01 | Tekkub | profiles are for "I need it on sometimes" |
| 21:44.06 | NeoTron | right |
| 21:44.11 | Tekkub | "Doesn't quest" ~= "sometimes": |
| 21:44.19 | NeoTron | I have more than one character |
| 21:44.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko (n=Testing@adsl-068-159-119-207.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:44.31 | NeoTron | and I have more addons than tourguide/lightheaded |
| 21:44.33 | Tekkub | so disable it on the ones you don't need it for |
| 21:44.37 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: basically, the back-end involvement of curse.com is becoming a front-end one, too (they were hosting or paying for the hosting for a long time) - at least in some regards =) |
| 21:45.02 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: as to "what happend to make it necessary" - popularity, and hence, costs, I guess |
| 21:45.15 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: ah, that's enough of an answer for me :) |
| 21:45.17 | Tekkub | using good AddonLoader conditions in your addons makes profiles totally unneeded |
| 21:45.37 | Tekkub | AH addons load at the AH, raid addons load when you join a raid |
| 21:45.39 | NightHawkTheSane | i just wasnt aware of the changing role of curse wrt the ace svn |
| 21:45.41 | Tekkub | problem solved |
| 21:46.24 | NeoTron | Tekkub: except one key thing - you can't unload addons |
| 21:46.29 | Tekkub | so? |
| 21:46.36 | Gnarfoz | with profiles, you basically can |
| 21:46.46 | Tekkub | why do you need to unload them? |
| 21:46.46 | NeoTron | just because i open my mail or vendor or check the AH quickly doesn't mean I want 15 addons to load (10 of them auctioneer) |
| 21:47.00 | NeoTron | because they use memory and lower performance |
| 21:47.01 | Gnarfoz | why do you need to disable them is the same question |
| 21:47.17 | NeoTron | and before you say static memory doesn't reduce performance, it does |
| 21:47.28 | NeoTron | because it makes garbage collecting more expensive |
| 21:47.31 | Tekkub | if your AH addon is "lowering performance" when it's not at the AH, that's some epic failure |
| 21:47.36 | NeoTron | my comptuer is old and rusty |
| 21:47.39 | Tekkub | "using memory" means bupkiss |
| 21:48.06 | Josh_Borke | my point is this matter is that wow is using 500MB of memory |
| 21:48.07 | Tekkub | besides, with profiles you would have to reload... with AL you reload and they just don'e load |
| 21:48.15 | Tekkub | you don't have to have a profile decide to disable them |
| 21:48.16 | NeoTron | Josh_Borke: this is not abotu wow using memory |
| 21:48.20 | Tekkub | you just reload, all is well |
| 21:48.38 | NeoTron | it's about memory used by the lua interpreter degrading the gc() performance of it |
| 21:49.13 | Gnarfoz | Tekkub: well, if Auctioneer for example isn't loaded, I don't get price info in tooltips. I can get tooltips even when not at the AH. Thus, it impacts performance when not at the AH - would you call that a failure? :p |
| 21:49.20 | Josh_Borke | why does the gc performance matter? |
| 21:49.24 | Tekkub | you go to AH, ah addons load. You join raid, raid addons load. You want AH addons gone.. /rl riad addons load, AH ones don't |
| 21:49.31 | Tekkub | no time wasted with "profiles" |
| 21:49.38 | NeoTron | Josh_Borke: because lua performance matters |
| 21:49.58 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: well, that functionatily pulls it away from strictly an "ah" addon, so :p |
| 21:50.00 | Josh_Borke | i agree lua performance matters, but why does gc performance matter? |
| 21:50.00 | NeoTron | Tekkub: except of course the fact that "raid addons" such as oRA2 and bigwigs show up in my LDB display even when not loaded |
| 21:50.09 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: uhm it shows AH prices. |
| 21:50.16 | NeoTron | Josh_Borke: because it's part of lua performance |
| 21:50.26 | Josh_Borke | how does it impact you? |
| 21:50.41 | Tekkub | if they're in your LDB display, they are loaded :P |
| 21:50.49 | NeoTron | when my memory is ~150MB (happened like once), I noticed significant issues when exiting battle when omen and recount did their cleanups |
| 21:50.56 | NeoTron | that I don't notice with 50MB use |
| 21:51.00 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: well, point is, it's functionality extends beyond having the AH window open, so you can't justifiably expect it's perfomance & resource usage to drop to minimal levels when you're not :P |
| 21:51.11 | Tekkub | 50MB? how the fuck do you pull that off |
| 21:51.20 | Josh_Borke | if your memory usage is at 150MB you have other problems that memory management being slow |
| 21:51.22 | NeoTron | Recount |
| 21:51.25 | Tekkub | I use 2MiB for addons and 10 for defaul UI |
| 21:51.25 | Antiarc | Omen doesn't do any significant cleanup on combat exit |
| 21:51.40 | Josh_Borke | Antiarc: i bet it does cleanup when youl eave a group |
| 21:51.41 | NeoTron | Antiarc: whatever it is it caused issues :P |
| 21:51.50 | Antiarc | Josh_Borke: A little, just a few tables |
| 21:51.58 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: no, but I want the tooltips gone when I'm done AHing - but Tekkub's point stands, actually. I could just reload and Auc wouldn't get loaded |
| 21:51.59 | NeoTron | Tekkub: I use a lot of addons. 50 MB isn't very much |
| 21:52.13 | NeoTron | esp not if you include things like lightheaded using 15 MB, tourguide, auctioneer etc |
| 21:52.13 | Josh_Borke | right, but when you have 150 MB you have a lot of garbage to churn through |
| 21:52.18 | Tekkub | 50MiB is insane |
| 21:52.24 | NeoTron | not really |
| 21:52.26 | Gnarfoz | I start at 60 |
| 21:52.27 | Josh_Borke | i used 50MiB regularly |
| 21:52.33 | Fogger | some mods use more than 50mb alone :P |
| 21:52.35 | Gnarfoz | you just don't use many addons :p |
| 21:52.36 | Fogger | wowecon for one |
| 21:52.41 | ZorbaTHut | I suspect questhelper eats 20mb just to boot |
| 21:52.45 | Tekkub | I use A LOT of addons |
| 21:52.58 | Tekkub | QH is poorly written :P |
| 21:53.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (n=MikeNGoS@michaelg20.goshen.edu) |
| 21:53.03 | Gnarfoz | probably a conservative definition of 'a lot' |
| 21:53.05 | Shadowed | Last I looked, QuestHelper uses a metra ton of tables |
| 21:53.14 | Shadowed | metra being even higher than metric |
| 21:53.16 | NeoTron | I have over 300 dirs in my Interface/Addons |
| 21:53.18 | ZorbaTHut | questhelper stores a lot of data - it's similar to what something like wowecon does |
| 21:53.21 | NeoTron | mind you I'm not using all of thenm |
| 21:53.29 | Shadowed | QuestHelper stores them inefficiently is the issue |
| 21:53.30 | ZorbaTHut | although some of it is highly unnecessary, I'll be removing that eventually |
| 21:53.31 | Gnarfoz | disembedded libs? :p |
| 21:53.40 | NeoTron | Gnarfoz: naturally |
| 21:53.50 | ZorbaTHut | shadowed, it tends to prioritize execution speed over memory use |
| 21:53.51 | Gnarfoz | yeah :o |
| 21:53.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (n=kalroth@3908ds1-hj.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 21:54.06 | Shadowed | Maybe I'm thinking of another addon |
| 21:54.15 | Tekkub | ZorbaTHut, I have many addons that store lots of data, if you do it worng, it blows balls |
| 21:54.20 | Shadowed | ^ |
| 21:54.22 | ZorbaTHut | well, you could be thinking of questhelper, there's a lot I haven't gotten to yet with it :P |
| 21:54.28 | Tekkub | I highly doubt QH stores it's data well |
| 21:54.29 | Shadowed | TourGuide uses a good method of storing data |
| 21:54.30 | ZorbaTHut | but. |
| 21:54.30 | Josh_Borke | yes, when you talk about have 150 MB of memory used by addons it starts to be a problem. but if you have less than 1GB of ram then you shouldn't be running so many addons |
| 21:54.46 | ZorbaTHut | how did tourguide do it? (it stores a *huge* amount less than qh does) |
| 21:54.54 | Shadowed | text |
| 21:54.56 | Shadowed | and parses it when needed |
| 21:54.57 | NeoTron | Josh_Borke: the problem isn't the memory use of WoW though. it's that lua gets inefficient at higher levels of memory usage |
| 21:54.59 | NightHawkTheSane | Josh_Borke: if you have less than 1gb of ram, you either need a new computer, or more ram >< |
| 21:55.01 | Mike-N-Go | Who has a problem with addons taking space? |
| 21:55.10 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, that's why I'm saying qh tends to prioritize execution speed |
| 21:55.10 | NeoTron | Tekkub: one major memory eater, btw, seems to be ace3 config ui's :P |
| 21:55.19 | ZorbaTHut | parsing is slow. tourguide doesn't do very CPU-intensive stuff, but QH does |
| 21:55.28 | Josh_Borke | NeoTron: my point is that at 150 MB of addon memory usage you have other problems than lua is inefficient at memory usage |
| 21:55.35 | Tekkub | NeoTron, duh, tables out the ass |
| 21:55.37 | Shadowed | ZorbaTHut: How many tables does static.lua have? |
| 21:55.55 | NeoTron | Josh_Borke: that was an extreme case, and I'm not quite sure how it happened. |
| 21:55.57 | Tekkub | why do you think I make tekKonfig and generate my panels when they're NEEDED |
| 21:55.58 | Mike-N-Go | Josh_Borke: Tables inefficient? Nonsense! |
| 21:55.59 | Shadowed | It's lagging my text edit to much to even count, but in general 99% of that data is useless and can be turned from text into tables as needed |
| 21:56.07 | Shadowed | Tekkub: But thats an issue with the addon authors half the time |
| 21:56.14 | Shadowed | because they make the tables everytime instead of when needed |
| 21:56.21 | Tekkub | exactly |
| 21:56.22 | ZorbaTHut | shadowed, a huge number, many of which are necessary :P I mean, it does its lookups on the fly - those indexed lookups need to exist |
| 21:56.24 | NeoTron | with ace 3 it's needed |
| 21:56.34 | Tekkub | so I still say, 50MiB memory use is INSANE |
| 21:56.35 | ZorbaTHut | the only stuff that could be condensed would be the info per-objective or per-quest |
| 21:56.37 | NeoTron | because there's no other way for the addon author to do it (if they want to use ace3) |
| 21:56.37 | Shadowed | It's not needed NeoTron |
| 21:56.44 | Tekkub | and, FWIW, TG on a freash load, 1.2 MiB |
| 21:56.50 | Shadowed | You can delay the creation of the tables until the configuration is loaded, I do it in *all* of my addons |
| 21:56.57 | Shadowed | ZorbaTHut: How are they necessary? |
| 21:57.01 | Josh_Borke | also, because the lua gc is incremental it doesn't matter how much memory is in use, it will just take longer to get rid of garbage |
| 21:57.10 | NeoTron | Shadowed: but once loaded it's there. my addons use dynamic configuration where applicable |
| 21:57.15 | Gnarfoz | Tekkub: still saying the opposite :D |
| 21:57.17 | NeoTron | but it always grows |
| 21:57.23 | Shadowed | Yea, but it's a configuration. You don't open configurations every time you load WoW :p |
| 21:57.34 | ZorbaTHut | shadowed, if the user gets a quest, it needs to be able to look up the quest data. that means one object per quest, at the very least. merely having "a table" isn't all that much less efficient than "a string" |
| 21:57.36 | NightHawkTheSane | Tekkub: maybe so, although my memory doesn't rise much above that, i dont think i've ever seen it hit 60mb |
| 21:57.45 | NeoTron | Tekkub: but TG relies on Lightheaded for some of that extra nice data, and LH doesn't use 1.5 MB. :P |
| 21:57.49 | Shadowed | Well yes |
| 21:57.50 | ZorbaTHut | the inefficient part is simply having lots of objects, and those lookup tables, at the very least, are rather necessary. |
| 21:58.04 | NeoTron | Shadowed: obviousl 150MB is like worse case wtf went wrong situation. |
| 21:58.05 | Shadowed | Do you need to have every quest, position, etc as a table when say, 70-80% of it you won't use? |
| 21:58.16 | Shadowed | the point of using a string generally is that you can parse just what you want when you want it |
| 21:58.21 | ZorbaTHut | you do when it's unclear what quests you're going to be using :P |
| 21:58.27 | Shadowed | ? |
| 21:58.29 | Mike-N-Go | There are many ways to get the same thing accomplished. For a data base, stuff could be loaded with the addon, or it could be delayed until needed, and created on demand. |
| 21:58.55 | ZorbaTHut | do you mean each individual quest, not the lookup thing? no, but I'm not convinced there's a huge amount of extra overhead involved there |
| 21:58.59 | Shadowed | or what Mike-N-Go said, forgot about that |
| 21:59.12 | Josh_Borke | QH is like TourGuide and LightHeaded combined, right? |
| 21:59.15 | ZorbaTHut | factor of 2 perhaps, which will be overshadowed by some of the extra data storage I'm doing in the future |
| 21:59.20 | ZorbaTHut | josh, it's somewhat different |
| 21:59.27 | ZorbaTHut | tourguide functions by having people submit their own optimal paths |
| 21:59.29 | Josh_Borke | i can't keep up with addons this day |
| 21:59.32 | ZorbaTHut | QH calculates an optimal path on the fly |
| 22:00.00 | NeoTron | yeah QH is really nothing like TG |
| 22:00.02 | Josh_Borke | so it seems to me that it should be organized more like LH (ie quests are separated into ranges) |
| 22:00.04 | Tekkub | NeoTron, okey with LH also... TG 1.2 MiB, LH 466.6 KiB :P |
| 22:00.14 | Mike-N-Go | ZorbaTHut: But is that path optimal usage of system resources =]? |
| 22:00.18 | Josh_Borke | Tekkub: load some gd quest information in LH bastard |
| 22:00.18 | NeoTron | Tekkub: that is withotu any LH data loaded though |
| 22:00.26 | Josh_Borke | ~lart Tekkub |
| 22:00.26 | purl | takes out a cattle prod and gives Tekkub a good jolt |
| 22:00.31 | Mike-N-Go | s/path/path creation/ |
| 22:00.36 | ZorbaTHut | it's sort of like having Wowhead's location and drop info built directly into WoW, with a traveling-salesman algorithm grafted to it |
| 22:00.47 | Josh_Borke | ZorbaTHut: but it's all one mod, right? |
| 22:00.48 | Tekkub | one LH data "module" 2.0 MiB :P |
| 22:00.51 | ZorbaTHut | mike, it's better than trying to get the user to do it ;) |
| 22:00.53 | ZorbaTHut | josh, yeah, it is |
| 22:00.58 | Josh_Borke | ZorbaTHut: that's your problem |
| 22:01.01 | Tekkub | I'm now up to a WHOPPING 6.3 MiB addon mem use |
| 22:01.07 | NeoTron | for two addons |
| 22:01.10 | Tekkub | no |
| 22:01.15 | Tekkub | for all my shit |
| 22:01.20 | ZorbaTHut | I don't want it to be multiple mods, I'm already getting far too many people reporting bugs of the form "I have no idea how to install mods" |
| 22:01.23 | Mike-N-Go | ZorbaTHut: Tekkub's method is to 'guide' the user, not hold their hand, in relation to Tour Guide. |
| 22:01.26 | ZorbaTHut | making it two mods would just make it worse :P |
| 22:01.41 | Shadowed | Thats not how you do it |
| 22:01.43 | NightHawkTheSane | ZorbaTHut: you can't prevent idiots from being idiots. |
| 22:01.45 | Shadowed | You just include two folders instead of one |
| 22:01.50 | Tekkub | you see, the trick is, to ignore the retard users |
| 22:01.55 | Shadowed | thats also a good thing |
| 22:01.58 | ScytheBlade1 | Don't write your code around the lowest common denominator |
| 22:02.08 | Josh_Borke | ZorbaTHut: so the problem is your 1 mod has the memory usage of ALL of the TG data and ALL of the LH data uncompressed |
| 22:02.08 | ScytheBlade1 | It winds up being really crappy code with bad ideas and methods |
| 22:02.13 | Tekkub | if they cannot install the addon, and every site has an easy to find guide, then it's NOT YOUR PROBLEM! |
| 22:02.20 | ZorbaTHut | josh, plus extra, yes. ;) |
| 22:02.21 | NightHawkTheSane | i prefer the mantra of 'act as if everyone was smarter than you' |
| 22:02.28 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, sure it is. I want the mod to be easy to use. |
| 22:02.30 | NeoTron | also a lot of 50MB is Recount. it's arguably not effectively written but alas |
| 22:02.33 | Maldivia | hah... new patch comming |
| 22:02.35 | Josh_Borke | ZorbaTHut: which means your mod is going to always be pointed to as a memory hog |
| 22:02.40 | NightHawkTheSane | Maldivia: beta build? |
| 22:02.45 | Maldivia | NightHawkTheSane: yep |
| 22:02.46 | ZorbaTHut | josh, yeah, fundamentally I'm okay with that. I mean, 20 megs. Live with it. |
| 22:02.49 | NightHawkTheSane | neat! |
| 22:03.00 | ZorbaTHut | World of Warcraft is using 511mb on my system right now |
| 22:03.03 | Maldivia | NightHawkTheSane: and just as I had time to update to latest build bersion :) |
| 22:03.06 | ZorbaTHut | and that's only going to get larger with Wrath. so ;) |
| 22:03.09 | Tekkub | my real problem with QH is that it has a throttle setting.... |
| 22:03.11 | NightHawkTheSane | Maldivia: lol, play more often? ;) |
| 22:03.11 | Shadowed | How is Recount using almost 50MB? |
| 22:03.20 | Shadowed | I could maybe see it using that much if you had a lot of data saved |
| 22:03.21 | NeoTron | Shadowed: TOTAL memory use |
| 22:03.25 | Maldivia | NightHawkTheSane: well, not the client - my tradeskill data file |
| 22:03.28 | Shadowed | 04:24] <NeoTron> also a lot of 50MB is Recount. it's arguably not effectively written but alas |
| 22:03.29 | Tekkub | that just screams to me "I need to find a better way" |
| 22:03.32 | NeoTron | recount is not 50 MB but like 10-15MB after a aoe heavy run |
| 22:03.38 | Shadowed | yea that makes a bit more sense :p |
| 22:03.41 | Mike-N-Go | ZorbaTHut: No, it would not necessarily be worse. If it is modular, IE two addons where the user could turn off one he might not want to use, then that is 'better' |
| 22:03.42 | smcn | he meant, a lot of that 50mb |
| 22:03.44 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, actually, the throttle setting is largely unimportant in recent versions |
| 22:03.45 | NeoTron | right |
| 22:03.46 | smcn | imo |
| 22:03.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (n=Ycarene@24-116-56-41.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 22:03.57 | Tekkub | well that's good |
| 22:03.59 | ZorbaTHut | it used to do something truly horrible with guessing how much CPU it was probably using, but now it benchmarks itself based on realtime |
| 22:04.05 | NeoTron | my DKP addon and MagicMarker are also reasonbly memory heavy |
| 22:04.10 | NeoTron | not sure how to optimize them |
| 22:04.19 | ZorbaTHut | the throttle setting existing is partially legacy now, and partially as a way to appease people saying "it uses all my megahertz omg" |
| 22:04.34 | ZorbaTHut | mike, it's more complicated. complicated is a cost |
| 22:04.43 | Shadowed | Whats your DKP addon NeoTron? |
| 22:04.44 | ZorbaTHut | both in terms of my programming effort, and in terms of their ability to understand it |
| 22:04.45 | Gnarfoz | NightHawkTheSane: because I stumbled upon it just now: http://forums.wowace.com/showthread.php?t=14280 ;) |
| 22:05.03 | Mike-N-Go | How is modulability a higher cost? |
| 22:05.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Gnarfoz: thank you :) |
| 22:05.16 | ZorbaTHut | I just described that, yo :P |
| 22:05.20 | ZorbaTHut | it's more complicated, so it eats my time |
| 22:05.24 | ZorbaTHut | and it's more complicated, so it confuses people |
| 22:05.29 | ZorbaTHut | neither of those are pluses :) |
| 22:06.04 | Shadowed | If modulability is confusing people, you didn't do it well |
| 22:06.12 | ZorbaTHut | and what QH does is intrinsically rather heavyweight in terms of CPU and memory - I'm never going to reduce it by an order of magnitude, and I just don't think it's worth worrying about for what would be, perhaps, a 50% memory drop. |
| 22:06.33 | Tekkub | the issue isn't the actual memory use |
| 22:06.39 | ZorbaTHut | shadowed, if I added a menu option saying "this menu option doesn't do anything", and it really *doesn't do anything*, I could guarantee I'd have someone asking "wat does the new menu item do plz" |
| 22:06.43 | Tekkub | it's hom much time you waste initializing it |
| 22:06.45 | zenzelezz | brewfest just ended... Ironforge full of people panicing about not getting their mount |
| 22:06.51 | Shadowed | Why do you have the menu option in the first place if the module isn't there? |
| 22:07.02 | ZorbaTHut | seriously, read the curse questhelper comments |
| 22:07.06 | Shadowed | zenzelezz: huh? It's not supposed to end for another day |
| 22:07.08 | ZorbaTHut | some of them are kind of horrifying |
| 22:07.11 | Shadowed | People are idiots |
| 22:07.14 | Shadowed | ignore the really stupid ones |
| 22:07.16 | ZorbaTHut | that was a hypothetical example to demonstrate how easily people can be confused :P |
| 22:07.18 | Tekkub | dude, ZorbaTHut... curse users are RETARDS |
| 22:07.18 | Shadowed | If I can teach you anything, it's that |
| 22:07.22 | Shadowed | also what Tekkub said |
| 22:07.27 | zenzelezz | Shadowed: it's five minutes past midnight, it's the 4th of October now |
| 22:07.28 | ZorbaTHut | I mean seriously, consider this |
| 22:07.30 | zenzelezz | (EU) |
| 22:07.33 | Shadowed | oh you're one of those whacky EU people |
| 22:07.36 | Tekkub | if you're trying to make it so every single one of them can use your addon... you're wasting tons of time |
| 22:07.37 | ZorbaTHut | a significant fraction of QH users are those who *find WoW questing to be too hard* |
| 22:07.55 | Tekkub | see right there is your problem |
| 22:08.01 | Tekkub | you're trying to solve stupid |
| 22:08.05 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, I'm not, but I also don't see a reason to make things more complicated for no particularly good reason |
| 22:08.10 | Neuro_Medivh | there's only one cure for stupid |
| 22:08.16 | Tekkub | instead, try to provide a way for users to optomize their leveling |
| 22:08.21 | NightHawkTheSane | hm.. so.. now i have to figure out how to replace my ace update script >.> |
| 22:08.24 | ZorbaTHut | I don't see how that ten megs of RAM is really important to most people, and I don't want to bother with the effort to change it. so. :) |
| 22:08.24 | Tekkub | same goal in the end, much less headache |
| 22:08.46 | Mike-N-Go | It is actually the way it is coded. How 'efficient' it is. One way an addon could be efficient is by not loading things until they are needed. Another would be good use of local vars.. |
| 22:09.09 | ZorbaTHut | mike, another way an addon could be efficient is by providing helpful and awesome new features |
| 22:09.21 | Shadowed | You're twisting words |
| 22:09.21 | Tekkub | that's not "efficient" |
| 22:09.21 | ZorbaTHut | and every hour I spend reducing memory usage is an hour I'm not spending on awesome. so :D |
| 22:09.27 | Tekkub | that's feature creep :P |
| 22:09.30 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, it's efficient in terms of my time :) |
| 22:09.36 | Shadowed | You're twisting words |
| 22:10.01 | Josh_Borke | i cannot speak to the efficiency of QH because i've never looked at the code |
| 22:10.06 | ZorbaTHut | shadowed, I'm redefining them in a slightly more useful sense. If the goal if the plugin is to make people's leveling faster, then adding new options to do that is likely more useful than reducing memory usage. |
| 22:10.09 | Shadowed | ... |
| 22:10.10 | ZorbaTHut | josh, keep it that way, trust me :P |
| 22:10.26 | Tekkub | "useful" ~= "efficient" |
| 22:10.32 | Shadowed | Sooo you're twisting words.... |
| 22:10.35 | ZorbaTHut | there's entire classes of bugs that I currently respond to with "yeah, I know. It does that. Deal." |
| 22:10.56 | Neuro_Medivh | does QH come with free bacon? |
| 22:11.04 | ZorbaTHut | neuro, if it does, someone's been holding out on me |
| 22:11.06 | Tekkub | nope, but TG is made of bacon |
| 22:11.21 | Shadowed | It's made out of frozen bacon thats only made when you need it |
| 22:11.22 | Josh_Borke | Tekkub: so THAT'S why i kept randomly dieing |
| 22:11.26 | Tekkub | *and* it's lean bacon... odd that |
| 22:11.42 | ZorbaTHut | I mean, here's how I see it. the efficiency of something is how well it achieves its purpose relative to the available limited resources. |
| 22:11.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 22:11.51 | Tekkub | "Made with bacon, less fat that QH" |
| 22:11.55 | ZorbaTHut | the limited resources include memory, cpu, the user's time, and the developer's time. |
| 22:11.58 | Tekkub | how does that work? |
| 22:12.23 | Josh_Borke | so basically there are differences of opinion on what efficiency is defined as |
| 22:12.29 | ZorbaTHut | in trying to work on it in the most efficient way possible, I have decided that the memory usage is largely immaterial. That's all. |
| 22:12.35 | Neuro_Medivh | efficiency is always output / some resource |
| 22:12.56 | Neuro_Medivh | you just gotta decide what resource you want to focus on being efficient |
| 22:13.05 | ZorbaTHut | neuro, yup, pretty much. |
| 22:13.08 | Tekkub | see the whole problem here is, if you want to throw in "user time"... TG is more efficient! |
| 22:13.21 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, how so? |
| 22:13.28 | Neuro_Medivh | TG focuses on speed |
| 22:13.29 | Shadowed | it only requires one person to give a guide thats optimal |
| 22:13.42 | Shadowed | or not even super optimal |
| 22:13.42 | Tekkub | I don't send users to do quests that are a watse of time, I can optimize the paths better than a computer can |
| 22:13.47 | ZorbaTHut | shadowed, questhelper requires no people to give an optimal guide :) |
| 22:13.57 | Shadowed | TG already has Wrath guides right Tekkub? |
| 22:14.00 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, I plan to fix that former issue, and I disagree with that latter claim. |
| 22:14.05 | Tekkub | you can give the best path for what they have, I can give the best path for everything they will do |
| 22:14.08 | Neuro_Medivh | Shadowed, I don't believe so |
| 22:14.17 | Neuro_Medivh | maybe HF and BT |
| 22:14.23 | Shadowed | I could swear Tek mentioned he got an Alliance WoTLK guide a few weeks ago |
| 22:14.25 | Tekkub | Shadowed, a little, still working on them |
| 22:14.25 | ZorbaTHut | once I add some of the things I plan to, I can give the best path for everything they could conceivably choose :P |
| 22:14.30 | Maldivia | ScytheBlade1: ? |
| 22:14.35 | Shadowed | How do you do that |
| 22:14.45 | Shadowed | You can't really automatically figure out what quests are the best |
| 22:14.48 | Neuro_Medivh | I'm finishing up icecrown, then gonna mail Tekkub a HUGE tgreport file |
| 22:14.53 | ZorbaTHut | why not? most of them are quite simple to do so |
| 22:14.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Maldivia: ? right back at you |
| 22:14.57 | Shadowed | How so? |
| 22:15.00 | Tekkub | Neuro_Medivh, ally or whore? |
| 22:15.01 | ZorbaTHut | count kills, count drops, count drop rate |
| 22:15.03 | Josh_Borke | ZorbaTHut: the problem is you can't factor in future events imo |
| 22:15.05 | Neuro_Medivh | ally |
| 22:15.08 | Shadowed | Drop rates aren't accurate |
| 22:15.12 | Maldivia | ScytheBlade1: 9038 |
| 22:15.16 | ScytheBlade1 | ah |
| 22:15.17 | ScytheBlade1 | moment |
| 22:15.19 | ZorbaTHut | add in a little sensor heuristic for seeing whether people actually finish it in the expected time or not |
| 22:15.25 | Tekkub | drop rates for quest items are horribly inaccurate |
| 22:15.25 | ZorbaTHut | shadowed, what isn't accurate about them? |
| 22:15.34 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, that's because nobody bothers to calculate them right |
| 22:15.38 | Shadowed | errr |
| 22:15.40 | Tekkub | the items only drop when on the quest |
| 22:15.41 | ZorbaTHut | I agree they're *not* done right, but there's nothing saying they *can't* be. |
| 22:15.50 | Shadowed | So you're saying you want it to autocalibrate quests after you've done it? |
| 22:15.53 | Tekkub | no site tracks if the item is a quest item when calculating drop rate |
| 22:15.55 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, yes. so . . . you keep track of their potential drops only when someone's on the quest |
| 22:16.02 | Tekkub | it simply says x drop/ y kills |
| 22:16.04 | ZorbaTHut | who cares about sites? qh does its own data gathering :P |
| 22:16.04 | Shadowed | You don't save them any time then |
| 22:16.05 | Neuro_Medivh | lol, this reminds me of the famous pen-in-space anecdote |
| 22:16.16 | ZorbaTHut | shadowed, no, I record from the first user, then optimize for the second |
| 22:16.21 | Shadowed | you mean... |
| 22:16.22 | Shadowed | like a guide?1 |
| 22:16.31 | ZorbaTHut | like a completely automated customizable guide, yes |
| 22:16.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Maldivia: tiny |
| 22:16.44 | ZorbaTHut | I mean |
| 22:16.44 | Shadowed | I think Tek released something to automate most of TGs guide making as well? |
| 22:16.47 | ZorbaTHut | that's what it already does |
| 22:16.52 | Tekkub | Neuro_Medivh, it reminds my of KLH actually, except ZorbaTHut isn't a pompas dickhead like the KLH guy was |
| 22:16.54 | Maldivia | ScytheBlade1: yeah, found that out :) |
| 22:16.54 | ZorbaTHut | I don't know where you think QH gets its data from |
| 22:17.02 | Tekkub | Shadowed, yes |
| 22:17.09 | ZorbaTHut | but it's all from people sending me their SavedVariables files :P |
| 22:17.14 | smcn | is there a clearfont or equivalent working for wotlk anywhere? lazy atm |
| 22:17.23 | Tekkub | Shadowed, I have a full horde transcript, and I'm working on the ally ones bit by bit as I test them |
| 22:17.28 | ScytheBlade1 | 9038 build is up |
| 22:17.41 | Neuro_Medivh | the story (which is apocryphal and an urban legend) goes that the US spent thousands of dollars designing a pen that would write in zero-g. The Russians just used a pencil. |
| 22:17.58 | smcn | wow 13mb? |
| 22:18.17 | smcn | small patch is small |
| 22:18.26 | Tekkub | Neuro_Medivh, and then the russian's accountants in space could erase their records of money laundering, FAIL |
| 22:18.57 | Neuro_Medivh | lol @ accountants in space |
| 22:19.07 | Shadowed | Maybe companions will work with GetActionInfo now |
| 22:19.35 | Tekkub | WTB mount speed in new API |
| 22:19.44 | Tekkub | also, link to downloader? |
| 22:20.25 | Shadowed | that would also be nice |
| 22:20.38 | Shadowed | It wouldn't be that bad if some mounts didn't have dynamic speeds |
| 22:20.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@78.146.112.119) |
| 22:20.53 | NightHawkTheSane | Tekkub: speed and type, imo. >< |
| 22:21.13 | Mike-N-Go | I am not sure how Quest Helper works, but for a large data base of quests and what not, I would think that blocking of the quests by every 10 levels or so would be the way to go, and if a quest's data is needed, it would load that level range then, not at the start up. That is one way I could see a quest DB becoming more efficient. This would reduce the total namespace down to an amount that would be less then if all quests were loaded. |
| 22:21.14 | Shadowed | You can check type from raiding skill can't you? |
| 22:21.23 | Shadowed | at least simpler localization wise than speed! |
| 22:21.28 | NightHawkTheSane | Shadowed: not once it's learened and in your spellbook |
| 22:21.31 | Tekkub | aye, type is needed too |
| 22:21.33 | NightHawkTheSane | learned* |
| 22:21.36 | ZorbaTHut | mike, it could be done, but it'd complicate the code substantially and provide less of a bonus than you'd think |
| 22:21.36 | Shadowed | ahh that sucks |
| 22:21.38 | [Liquidor] | Neuro_Medivh, it's millions btw :) |
| 22:21.57 | ZorbaTHut | questhelper also stores a lot of data about simply "monsters" and "items", and provides the ability to search for specific monsters and items |
| 22:22.05 | ZorbaTHut | that's actually where the bulk of the data is - the quests themselves are very small |
| 22:22.07 | Tekkub | Mike-N-Go, or compress it all down into a few stings and explode them out when you need them |
| 22:22.19 | Shadowed | Developer who made http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=40775 hates people I think |
| 22:22.22 | Neuro_Medivh | [Liquidor]: 1.5 million is the official amount. The story isn't really true, but the moral of the story is valid |
| 22:22.28 | ZorbaTHut | I could in theory sort those into the quests they're associated with, but it all goes out the window if a dude decides he wants to search for a specific monster. |
| 22:22.31 | NightHawkTheSane | Honestly, we either need a new api method, or extra returns on GetCompanionInfo() that give you the mount's [current] speed and type (flying, ground) |
| 22:22.46 | foxlit | Shadowed: just consider it a fast mount |
| 22:22.49 | NightHawkTheSane | Shadowed: hates addon developers at least. :p |
| 22:22.50 | Tekkub | see now, that "monster" and "item" data is feature creep, it's probably something that's best left to another addon |
| 22:23.01 | Neuro_Medivh | sometimes we come up with complicated, high-tech methods of doing stuff when a simple answer is there. |
| 22:23.01 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: yeah, but you have to special case it. |
| 22:23.08 | ZorbaTHut | they're both necessary in some sense for the addon's behavior to function |
| 22:23.22 | ZorbaTHut | for one thing, it has to know where monsters and items are so it can tell you where to find them if a quest wants them |
| 22:23.26 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: you have to special case everything, unless somebody changed the companion API while I wasn't looking |
| 22:23.43 | Tem|afk | realms offline? |
| 22:23.45 | Shadowed | beta? |
| 22:23.47 | Tem|afk | do I smell a ptach? |
| 22:23.47 | Neuro_Medivh | new build |
| 22:23.50 | Shadowed | 13MB patch |
| 22:23.51 | Tem|afk | wewt |
| 22:23.53 | Maldivia | Tem: yes, patch - 9038 |
| 22:23.54 | Neuro_Medivh | ScytheBlade1 has it up already |
| 22:23.54 | ZorbaTHut | for another thing, it means the data is likely available even if it's never seen the quest before - I actually had a few times in Northrend where it gave me suggestions on where to go for a quest even though I knew the quest wasn't actually in the database yet |
| 22:24.10 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: you can determine MOST mounts speeds by tooltip parsing, and get pretty reliable results |
| 22:24.18 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: that one is the big exception. |
| 22:24.19 | Shadowed | Where is this secret link for ScytheBlade1's patch? |
| 22:24.22 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: inelegant and localization dependant. |
| 22:24.25 | kneeki | My beta client isnt patching =( |
| 22:24.31 | Neuro_Medivh | it's a SEKRUT! |
| 22:24.33 | foxlit | psst, hive everything to do with quests. |
| 22:24.38 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: maybe so, but it works for the general case |
| 22:24.50 | Shadowed | Is Outlands or Northrend localized at all? |
| 22:24.53 | Shadowed | somewhere in GlobalStrings. |
| 22:24.54 | foxlit | NightHawkTheSane: the specific general case, perhaps :) |
| 22:25.02 | foxlit | And then you're at the mercy of wording issues, like here :) |
| 22:25.17 | Shadowed | foxlit: You don't know wording issues until you've tried parsing gems :p |
| 22:25.18 | NightHawkTheSane | foxlit: so far, this is the -only- mount that's broken the standard wording :p |
| 22:25.32 | NightHawkTheSane | (or at least, the only mount i'm immediately aware of) |
| 22:26.04 | cbreak | yay, premades! finally! :) |
| 22:26.19 | foxlit | At least for northrend - the idea is what someone, somewhere, is doing the quest you wanted to do now. |
| 22:26.33 | cbreak | "The template character copy queue is currently full." Och :( |
| 22:26.41 | foxlit | So you might as well sign everyone up to a broadcasting channel, and pray that nobody decides to tamper. |
| 22:27.24 | Shadowed | hrm |
| 22:27.53 | Shadowed | You could probably make the detection localization independant, if you pulled the localized "Outlands" from the map text thingy and searched for thaT! |
| 22:28.11 | Mike-N-Go | ZorbaTHut: You can include different .toc files in the same folder, that represent their own 'addons' in the one folder in the AddOns folder, and the user would still need only install one folder. |
| 22:28.34 | ZorbaTHut | mike, hmm, I didn't know you could do that. That might work, though I still argue it would be difficult and not particularly worthwhile |
| 22:28.41 | foxlit | I thought only Folder/Folder.toc was scanned |
| 22:28.49 | Maldivia | 9014->9038 UI diff: http://patchdiff.pastey.net/97467 |
| 22:29.50 | Mike-N-Go | ZorbaTHut: Modular is the wave of the future. Have one addon as a loader, that only waits for the quest log to be opened or whatever event, and it can then load the DB. |
| 22:29.52 | Shadowed | huh |
| 22:29.57 | Shadowed | at the Localize* in Achievements |
| 22:30.07 | ZorbaTHut | mike, well, the event is "the user logs in" |
| 22:30.27 | Mike-N-Go | And the DB would be in another addon. |
| 22:30.29 | ZorbaTHut | it starts pretty much the instant the game is running |
| 22:30.51 | Mike-N-Go | ZorbaTHut: Ever look at AddonLoader? |
| 22:31.07 | ZorbaTHut | I know of its existence, but it really doesn't apply here - QH starts the second the game starts |
| 22:31.23 | ZorbaTHut | in fact that's the most important time for it to be running, since the very beginning is where it's spending its optimization efforts most usefully :P |
| 22:32.19 | Mike-N-Go | What it does is it loads addons under spefic conditions. Also, it can load addons after the user enters the world, making the total time needed to go thorough the loading screen less. |
| 22:33.02 | Gnarfoz | + -- There's no need to run this when the frame isn't shown (i.e. we're zoning), it causes problems with the subtabs (bug 145137) |
| 22:33.08 | Gnarfoz | ouch at that number |
| 22:34.00 | kd3 | meh, if anything enhancements and trivial bugs (typoes) in the same bugzilla as actual bugs |
| 22:34.35 | Mike-N-Go | Whatever happened to reading the quest text, and following that.. |
| 22:34.50 | Maldivia | Wee... Wild Growth doubled in healing :) |
| 22:35.07 | Gnarfoz | anyone know what bug tracking solution blizz uses internally? |
| 22:35.57 | Maldivia | hmm... ok, wild growth only buffed 40% at max rank |
| 22:36.09 | Matrix110| | dont think anyone that isnt working there knows that Gnarfoz :P |
| 22:36.26 | Maldivia | but mana dropped from 35% to 23% |
| 22:36.43 | Gnarfoz | Matrix110|: and I ask here, because there's people who work there here. also, someone might have asked that before, hence imparting that knowledge to someone not working there but lurking here. ;P |
| 22:36.45 | Esine | Gnarfoz, from some forum threads by ex-GMs I've heard they use a proprietary system |
| 22:36.47 | Dewin | Probably Blizzard Bug Tracker, though that might not be the name of it. |
| 22:36.55 | Esine | .. not official wow forums of course |
| 22:38.01 | Mike-N-Go | ZorbaTHut said: "shadowed, questhelper requires no people to give an optimal guide" |
| 22:38.08 | Mike-N-Go | Where did the data come from? |
| 22:38.41 | NeoTron | QH optimizes quests based on what you have currently accepted |
| 22:38.45 | ZorbaTHut | mike, people submit their automatically-collected data via email, where it's collected and collated by scripts, then bundled into the latest version |
| 22:38.50 | NeoTron | and knowledge of where quests are completed |
| 22:39.00 | NeoTron | quest objectives rather |
| 22:39.25 | NeoTron | TG is a leveling-n-rails system, QH is a "clear my questlog in the fastest way" |
| 22:39.52 | ZorbaTHut | neotron, although at some point I want to rig it up to consider quests that are available but not yet accepted :) |
| 22:39.55 | NeoTron | QH lacks any intelligence on what quests to pick up |
| 22:40.11 | Maldivia | frost presence bumped to 60% armor increase |
| 22:40.15 | NeoTron | that in fact is the thing that makes TG better for leveling purposes :P |
| 22:40.22 | NeoTron | Maldivia: nice |
| 22:40.25 | Gnarfoz | kd3: great email body on the last diff mail ^^ |
| 22:40.51 | Mike-N-Go | ZorbaTHut: L2RNG? The RNG of quest drops affects every person differently. |
| 22:41.14 | ZorbaTHut | mike, but overall, in a predictable fashion |
| 22:41.43 | ZorbaTHut | you can't predict the length of a single quest, but you can predict the length of a hundred quests reasonably accurately |
| 22:42.03 | ZorbaTHut | toss in a bit of pessimism and it ought to work rather well. It's nothing that Tourguide plans don't already have to deal with. |
| 22:42.03 | Mike-N-Go | Tekkub: What is KLH? |
| 22:42.23 | Tekkub | the crappy old threat meter noone uses anymore :) |
| 22:42.39 | Fogger | was single-target |
| 22:42.42 | Mike-N-Go | Ahh, AKA KTM? |
| 22:42.51 | Tekkub | KMFDM |
| 22:43.18 | Dewin | KTM is short for KLH Threat Meter, so yes |
| 22:43.19 | Gnarfoz | it's actual name always was KLHTM |
| 22:43.24 | NeoTron | it's actually KLHTM |
| 22:43.34 | Gnarfoz | ~lart NeoTron |
| 22:43.34 | purl | moos at NeoTron |
| 22:43.34 | Tekkub | KMFDM! |
| 22:43.40 | Gnarfoz | ... weak. |
| 22:43.55 | NeoTron | ~lart Gnarfoz |
| 22:43.55 | purl | strangles Gnarfoz with a doohicky mouse cord |
| 22:44.08 | Dashkal | I think NeoTron might have won that one... |
| 22:44.17 | Mike-N-Go | ZorbaTHut: Why do you not make an external program like WoWHead client or Azeroth Advisor Client that automatically that can uploads to you? |
| 22:44.43 | Tekkub | exes are risky |
| 22:45.08 | ZorbaTHut | mike, the original developer didn't want to encourage people to run .exe's |
| 22:45.13 | ZorbaTHut | I'm torn on the subject, personally. |
| 22:45.55 | ZorbaTHut | I'm considering asking the curse.com admins to roll that into the Curse Client. Of course, considering how functional the Curse Client is, I'm not sure it'd help. |
| 22:45.58 | Fogger | exe's are fine when the src, md5 is supplied too |
| 22:46.01 | NightHawkTheSane | is there anyone here i can pester about curse stuff? |
| 22:46.06 | Mike-N-Go | People can optin to use the uploader. Otherwise, they can manually upload. |
| 22:46.27 | ZorbaTHut | fogger, in the same way as Vista's UAC is a good security mechanism. |
| 22:46.55 | ZorbaTHut | namely, it's great as long as people pay attention to it, and people are virtually certain not to do so. Security only works if it's easy. |
| 22:47.15 | ZorbaTHut | mike, yeah, I've considered that. I may add it at some point. One downside is I probably can't host the uploader on curse.com. |
| 22:47.27 | Tekkub | UAC's problem is that it's too strict |
| 22:47.36 | Tekkub | it's in your face ALL THE TIME |
| 22:47.57 | Tekkub | YOu are coming to a sad realization, confirm or deny? |
| 22:48.26 | Dewin | They say denial is the first sign... |
| 22:48.30 | Dewin | Tekkub, read Slashdot much? |
| 22:48.42 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, the same issue with posting the source and the md5 and the GPG signature and expecting anyone to, you know, look at them. |
| 22:48.42 | Tekkub | I've not been to slashdot in years |
| 22:48.55 | foxlit | "You can hide a semi truck in 300 lines of C." |
| 22:49.02 | Fogger | if they dont thats their problem |
| 22:49.20 | Mike-N-Go | Or, the user could open up wowhead.com if they wanted more information about items or mobs.. |
| 22:49.30 | Dewin | The idea is that by having the source available, other developers that they likely trust can independantly vet the code and say "Yeah, this is safe." |
| 22:50.27 | foxlit | You trust any other developers? |
| 22:50.36 | Dewin | Depends on the developers |
| 22:50.41 | foxlit | Also, see the above quote. |
| 22:51.14 | Dewin | Thats' why you have several people vet it |
| 22:51.32 | Dewin | For the truly paranoid, you could always run it in a sandbox and see what it tries to do. |
| 22:51.41 | ZorbaTHut | man I've had two people volunteer to work on QH so far. one of them even got so far as to checking out the repository |
| 22:51.48 | ZorbaTHut | I figure nobody really wants to work on this thing at this point :P |
| 22:51.56 | ZorbaTHut | dewin, 99% of the time, exactly what it's supposed to |
| 22:52.00 | ZorbaTHut | 1% of the time, ROOTKIT |
| 22:52.05 | Tekkub | maybe that's why the orig author dropped it? |
| 22:52.21 | foxlit | Dewin: neither is really the answer. Nobody is going to write you a do_evil_thing() routine |
| 22:52.24 | ZorbaTHut | tekkub, he got bored of WoW. I think he considered it intellectually interesting for a while |
| 22:52.35 | ZorbaTHut | but eventually, less so. |
| 22:52.35 | End | lol, one of the changes in the last beta diff was they added a semicolon to a line |
| 22:52.38 | ZorbaTHut | I imagine I'll do the same thing. |
| 22:52.49 | Tekkub | then he failed, I play wow a lot less than I code for it :P |
| 22:52.58 | Dewin | foxlit: But you mean the malicious packets won't have the 'evil' bit set? |
| 22:53.09 | Fogger | the exe thing works perfectly fine for Mobmap. |
| 22:53.23 | foxlit | I mean the malicious packets would be served through another mechanism long after the initial release |
| 22:53.51 | foxlit | Arrange for some subtle data-triggered overflow, execute arbitrary code. |
| 22:54.02 | Dewin | true. |
| 22:54.36 | Dewin | Then you release, say, a Java app signed with just the ability to read/write a certain directory + talk to the internet, or something along those lines. |
| 22:54.45 | Dewin | of course, then people like me would go "Eww java" and not run it |
| 22:55.44 | Dashkal | ~lart Dewin |
| 22:55.44 | purl | burns Dewin to a crisp with a laser |
| 22:56.19 | CrazyMYKL | java is overkill for that, anyhow |
| 22:56.19 | Dewin | Dashkal: It's not too bad, I know ;) |
| 22:56.40 | Dashkal | php...gtk.... |
| 22:56.44 | Dashkal | oh deat god that sounds awful |
| 22:57.10 | Dewin | there is no need to just use php for web pages. |
| 22:57.14 | Dashkal | Java at least gives you a _chance_ to code cleanly... |
| 22:57.40 | Dashkal | Sadly people often choose not to *sighs* |
| 22:57.42 | Dewin | I want something that allows but does not enforce strict typing and whatnot. |
| 22:57.49 | Dashkal | perl |
| 22:57.49 | Dewin | s/enforce/require/ |
| 22:57.53 | Dashkal | ahh |
| 22:58.05 | Dewin | so I can say *This* variable must always be an integer. |
| 22:58.35 | Dashkal | I don't think you're going to find much luck with that |
| 22:58.41 | Dashkal | That just begs to be horribly abused |
| 22:58.56 | ZorbaTHut | dewin, I'd love that too, myself |
| 22:59.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen1 (n=Sixen@12-210-157-250.client.mchsi.com) |
| 22:59.07 | Dewin | or... |
| 22:59.08 | Tifi | why? |
| 22:59.17 | foxlit | But seriously, that's VB's Variant type for you. |
| 22:59.27 | Dewin | the ability to magically quote strings in a SENSIBLE way (aka, not PHPs) |
| 22:59.28 | ZorbaTHut | hey nice, I have almost as many 71-75 quests in the DB as I do 41-45 quests |
| 22:59.31 | ZorbaTHut | progress! |
| 22:59.32 | foxlit | (of course, you could probably do the same with Object in Java) |
| 22:59.50 | ZorbaTHut | tifi, in general, the earlier you find a bug, the better |
| 22:59.50 | Dewin | Something where the app could track where a given value came from |
| 23:00.01 | ZorbaTHut | being able to find bugs at build-time is a lot better than at runtime, and good static checking can find a lot at build-time |
| 23:00.15 | foxlit | Dewin: magic quotes should die some time soon; you should call db-extension provided escape functions if you're calling that DB's query functions with user input strings. |
| 23:00.20 | Dewin | and if it's from a user variable, properly quote it the moment it goes into a database, even if by the time it gets to the database it's been joined into one massive string of nonuser stuff too |
| 23:00.24 | foxlit | I'm not sure if there's anything not sensible about that. |
| 23:00.33 | Dewin | Foxlit: I don't use magic quotes. Ever. |
| 23:00.43 | Dewin | I have my own function for that (predates the existance of the DB-specific ones) |
| 23:00.55 | cbreak | prepared statements. |
| 23:00.57 | foxlit | And it correctly escapes everything? |
| 23:01.02 | Tifi | so you don't want strict typing, because that would be too much work, yet hope to prevent bugs by sometimes enforcing type? |
| 23:01.24 | foxlit | Or just your limited interpretation of what should be escaped? :) |
| 23:01.26 | Dewin | prepared statements work around it nicely too |
| 23:01.31 | Dewin | Everything, foxlit |
| 23:01.39 | Tifi | i don't understand how this would be better than strict typing |
| 23:01.52 | Dewin | actually all's it does it return "\"" . addslashes($str) . "\"" |
| 23:01.58 | ZorbaTHut | tifi, the point of a scripting language is that sometimes you can slack on the strictness for ease of coding |
| 23:02.08 | ZorbaTHut | I really want the power of strictness to be available when I want it, but not mandatory. |
| 23:02.33 | Dewin | it's a scripting language. Sometimes you want to do serious work in it ("This is going to be ungodly and complicated and I want any tools that make troubleshooting easier to be available"), sometimes you just want to throw together 20 lines of code to do a quick and dirty job |
| 23:03.04 | Dewin | Likewise, it drives me INSANE that there's no way to trigger lua errors on undefined variable use. |
| 23:03.08 | foxlit | Dewin: so it doesn't actually escape all of the MySQL chars. |
| 23:03.25 | Arrowmaster | Dewin: yes there is |
| 23:03.35 | Dewin | Arrowmaster: How? |
| 23:03.43 | Arrowmaster | magic |
| 23:03.49 | foxlit | metatable on current environment, but meh, that's not quite it |
| 23:03.51 | Tifi | undefined variable use? |
| 23:04.05 | foxlit | You probably don't want it to whine at if undefinedVariable == nil then |
| 23:04.07 | cbreak | all variables are defined to be nil until you put in something else :) |
| 23:04.33 | Arrowmaster | foxlit: not quite since you dont want to effect other addons |
| 23:04.36 | Dewin | I want there to be a difference between explicit nil (I said there is a variable X and it = nil) and implicit NIL ("Variable X doesn't exist, wut?") |
| 23:04.51 | ZorbaTHut | dewin, did you ever seen Tim Sweeney's fascinating presentation on his hypothetical ideal programming language? |
| 23:04.53 | Dewin | so if I typo something, it's immediately obvious what the issue is |
| 23:05.00 | Dewin | Zobra: no. |
| 23:05.03 | foxlit | Arrowmaster: I don't think anyone introduced "addons" into this conversation yet. |
| 23:05.06 | Arrowmaster | but yeah if you change your own function enviroment and have a metatable set on it you can check for the undefined variable sue |
| 23:05.07 | Arrowmaster | use |
| 23:05.15 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.st.cs.uni-sb.de/edu/seminare/2005/advanced-fp/docs/sweeny.pdf there might be a better version somewhere, but this'll give you the gist of it |
| 23:05.19 | Dewin | Arrowmaster: the reason I brought up lua was due to addons :) |
| 23:05.20 | ZorbaTHut | I want the language he sort-of describes :( |
| 23:05.31 | Dewin | I still want Doc++ |
| 23:05.41 | Dewin | Write good quality documentation and turn it into a program. |
| 23:06.09 | cbreak | I am ok with most languages besides Eiffel, Pascal, Oberon and Modula. |
| 23:06.23 | ZorbaTHut | http://beust.com/weblog/archives/000375.html here's a somewhat better summary |
| 23:06.40 | ZorbaTHut | basically all of which I agree with, which is incredibly rare when someone starts talking about future programming languages |
| 23:07.24 | Mike-N-Go | Anyone care to comment on "The Humble Programmer" http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD03xx/EWD340.html? |
| 23:08.50 | cbreak | so he basically likes haskell? |
| 23:09.31 | ZorbaTHut | cbreak, some of his comments come down to the idea that a Haskell-like language is good as a default, but you need to be able to break out of the haskell mold sometimes |
| 23:09.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Movix (n=mattes@82.242.144.196) |
| 23:10.04 | cbreak | as long as there are no monads involved... |
| 23:10.07 | Dewin | Does anybody know of any addons that help deal with having a huge mess of minimap buttons? >.> |
| 23:10.21 | ZorbaTHut | dewin, fubar? :) |
| 23:10.27 | Movix | hi all, i have trouble with trying to get submenus working with easymenu, is it possible at all ? |
| 23:10.43 | Dewin | Movix: it is, I use them in Progression |
| 23:10.55 | NightHawkTheSane | Dewin: pester the authors for "disable minimap button" options, if they don't exist :p |
| 23:11.16 | foxlit | Pester minimap addon authors for a more flexible positioning API |
| 23:11.17 | Dewin | Nighthawk: I was hoping for something that would somehow capture the minimap icons into its own interface of sorts :) |
| 23:11.38 | foxlit | Something along the lines of AddMinimapButton(myFrame), position and visibility managed by the minimap-providing addon :) |
| 23:11.45 | Movix | Devix: hmmmm, so i did not understand the way to build the bale for the submenus |
| 23:11.54 | Gnarfoz | MinimapButtonBag? ^^ |
| 23:12.24 | Dewin | Movix: Can you pastey your menu-generating code? |
| 23:12.50 | Mike-N-Go | Dewin I have an awesome mod for that. Let me find the name. |
| 23:13.16 | Dewin | Ohh... also |
| 23:13.25 | Dewin | The table for submenu items is called menuList, not menuTable |
| 23:13.32 | Dewin | Blizzards's comments are wrong |
| 23:14.11 | Movix | function MLib_DDMenuAddLine(line) |
| 23:14.11 | Movix | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:14.11 | Movix | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:14.11 | Movix | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:14.11 | Movix | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:14.12 | Movix | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:14.14 | Movix | end |
| 23:15.06 | Movix | ops, soory modified for pasting, table.insert(MLib_DDTable, line) |
| 23:15.08 | Mike-N-Go | Dewin: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info5367-DetachedMiniMapButtons.html |
| 23:15.10 | Dewin | http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ is what I was looking for :) |
| 23:15.36 | Dewin | Mike-N-Go: I think MinimapButtonBag is more like what I was looking for, but thanks :) |
| 23:15.38 | Movix | line ist the table with the menu data, it works well for first level |
| 23:16.04 | Dewin | What's your EasyMenu() call look like? |
| 23:16.49 | Movix | function MLib_SetDDMenu(target, table) |
| 23:16.49 | Movix | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:16.49 | Movix | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:16.49 | Movix | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:16.50 | Movix | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:16.50 | Movix | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:16.52 | Movix | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:16.54 | Movix | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:16.56 | Movix | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:16.58 | Movix | end |
| 23:17.16 | Mike-N-Go | Dewin: The one I said lets me move them all arround. |
| 23:18.03 | Dewin | Movix: Use http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ in the future, it helps avoid spamming the channel. And if you lose the URL, it's right up there in the topic. |
| 23:18.27 | Movix | ops, sorry, not usd to this |
| 23:18.37 | Movix | i have a look at it, sorry for the spam |
| 23:20.14 | Movix | http://wowuidev.pastey.net/97468-fvrp |
| 23:22.23 | Dewin | Where are your submenus in that? |
| 23:23.24 | Dewin | Or if you want to see something that does work, http://svn.wowinterface.com/filedetails.php?repname=ProgressionPre-Alpha&path=%2Ftrunk%2Fmenu.lua towards the bottom (though the indenting is off on that page for some reason) |
| 23:23.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-67-246-45-198.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 23:23.30 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 23:24.36 | Movix | this is my last try to get the submenu work http://wowuidev.pastey.net/97469-2u3v |
| 23:26.10 | Mike-N-Go | Last try? |
| 23:26.28 | Dewin | Make sure your submenu items belong to menulist. |
| 23:26.34 | Dewin | something like |
| 23:27.39 | Dewin | http://wowuidev.pastey.net/97470 |
| 23:27.47 | Dewin | is what your table for EasyMenu should look like at the end. |
| 23:28.15 | [Liquidor] | Mike-N-Go, "latest attempt" |
| 23:28.55 | Movix | yes, thx liquidor, my poor english will make you laugh ;-) |
| 23:29.24 | Movix | ok, ths Dewin you helped me a lot i see what i have to do now |
| 23:29.27 | Mike-N-Go | I was like, "You giving up so fast?" |
| 23:29.31 | [Liquidor] | I only understood it cause I'm as bad as you are (no offense) |
| 23:29.56 | Movix | ;-) |
| 23:30.42 | Movix | no not givng up mike, not at all ;-) |
| 23:32.33 | [Liquidor] | Hmm |
| 23:32.53 | [Liquidor] | I need an unique identifier, should I use time? |
| 23:34.21 | Dewin | What for? |
| 23:35.26 | Dewin | And unique in what scope? |
| 23:38.47 | [Liquidor] | Well I just need a unique id for all my table values for reference |
| 23:39.01 | [Liquidor] | since they can be of the same "name" |
| 23:39.44 | Dewin | Is this something that's stored between sessions? |
| 23:39.52 | [Liquidor] | yes |
| 23:40.09 | *** join/#wowuidev jaxdahl (i=foobar@cpe-70-112-127-152.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 23:40.41 | Dewin | GetTime() would be safer than time() but still not very clean IHMO |
| 23:41.01 | [Liquidor] | well |
| 23:41.01 | Dewin | Another option would be to have a counter that you add 1 to every time you grab an ID |
| 23:41.13 | [Liquidor] | I meant time as in time (language), not the function time :) |
| 23:41.30 | jaxdahl | wtb magnet URI for patch |
| 23:41.38 | [Liquidor] | but I guess time would be the way to go |
| 23:41.59 | Dewin | It's unique... as long as you don't create two whatevers within the span of one unit of time resolution |
| 23:42.28 | Dewin | I personally just use the tables themselves as keys and do the neccessary conversion at load/unload time |
| 23:43.59 | [Liquidor] | I'm not sure we're talking about the same goal here though. I'm interested in getting an SQL primary key increment alike, but I'm not using an indexed table so... |
| 23:44.26 | Dewin | Liquidor: What sort of data are you storing? |
| 23:44.37 | cbreak | sqlite can automatically give you a valid primary key |
| 23:44.42 | cbreak | maybe other servers can do that too |
| 23:44.48 | cbreak | (constantly incrementing and unique) |
| 23:44.58 | Dewin | we're talking in lualand still right? |
| 23:46.45 | Movix | YEX it works now, i did it this way http://wowuidev.pastey.net/97471 thx a lot Dewin |
| 23:47.04 | Dewin | No problem :) |
| 23:47.13 | Movix | pff i should go to sleep, to much typos ! |
| 23:47.17 | Movix | héhé |
| 23:47.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Kolie2 (n=kraft@adsl-074-182-161-037.sip.hsv.bellsouth.net) |
| 23:48.01 | jaxdahl | these velociraptors are smoking fast. |
| 23:48.07 | jaxdahl | yes, plural. |
| 23:49.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Icecoldcoke (n=Icecoldc@68-188-160-12.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 23:55.55 | Adys | for the ones interested, i hear amazon uk just got CE preorders up |
| 23:56.48 | Esine | CE? |
| 23:57.21 | Icecoldcoke | Collectors Edition |
| 23:57.22 | Adys | collector edition |
| 23:57.26 | Icecoldcoke | I win |
| 23:57.32 | Adys | I do |
| 23:57.34 | Esine | wow collectors edition? |
| 23:57.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 23:57.39 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 23:57.42 | Adys | wotlk |
| 23:57.57 | Esine | umm how could they have wotlk in stock now :| |
| 23:58.11 | sacarasc | that's why it's a preorder thing |
| 23:58.14 | Adys | ask them, not me =P |
| 23:58.18 | Esine | :< |
| 23:59.45 | *** part/#wowuidev Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
