| 00:00.13 | Kaso | best way would be to just ress at the spirit healer |
| 00:01.07 | Squaff | very noob here, only started yesterday |
| 00:01.23 | Kaso | the big blue angel you saw when you first released spirit |
| 00:01.40 | Kaso | speak to it |
| 00:02.09 | Kaso | him/her, whatever |
| 00:02.14 | Squaff | ok, thanks for the help, I'll try that - just didn't really want to resurrect at the graveyard place |
| 00:02.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Er |
| 00:02.24 | ScytheBlade1 | That is the graveyard place |
| 00:02.42 | Squaff | oh - I went and found my corpse lol |
| 00:03.16 | Squaff | will I lose my quest items if I resurrect at the graveyard? |
| 00:03.20 | ScytheBlade1 | nope |
| 00:03.23 | Kaso | nope |
| 00:03.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Quaiche (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 00:03.34 | Squaff | oh right - silly me - overtired I guess |
| 00:03.54 | Kaso | at your level you'll only loose a bit of item durability maybe have a minute of ress sickness |
| 00:04.54 | Squaff | ah, thanks for the info - guess I've just levelled up to 12 non-stop and still haven't really got a clue what I'm doing lol |
| 00:06.01 | Squaff | appreciate the help - thanks xxxx |
| 00:06.11 | Kaso | You pick things up as you go along but check out the Getting started" here; http://www.wowwiki.com/Guides |
| 00:06.39 | Squaff | lol - I will, as usual I just dove right in without reading anything |
| 00:07.17 | Kaso | As you go on wowwiki and sites like wowhead/thottbot will become regular reading |
| 00:08.53 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 00:08.53 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 00:11.03 | batrick_ | any warlocks know what a felhunter's resistance is? |
| 00:11.21 | cbreak | anoyingly high it is. |
| 00:11.35 | batrick_ | im going to make a pen set for 2v2 |
| 00:11.45 | batrick_ | my battlegroup is full of lock teams |
| 00:12.18 | End | batrick: depends on spec |
| 00:12.27 | batrick | what's the highest? |
| 00:12.42 | End | probably over 200? |
| 00:12.49 | End | I dunno, it's 140 untalented |
| 00:12.50 | batrick | jesus |
| 00:13.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Guest101 (n=Unregist@cpe-065-191-076-231.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:13.08 | Guest101 | anyone here |
| 00:13.15 | batrick | no |
| 00:13.20 | Guest101 | anyone play warcraft private server |
| 00:13.25 | End | no |
| 00:13.27 | Esine | Gnarfoz, no. |
| 00:13.29 | Guest101 | no one |
| 00:13.35 | Esine | Guest101* |
| 00:13.37 | Guest101 | its actually cool |
| 00:13.44 | NightHawkTheSane | no, it's not. |
| 00:13.45 | kd3 | any ops on? |
| 00:13.46 | Esine | Guest101, you'll REALLY want to play on the official servers |
| 00:13.48 | Gnarfoz | and actually earns you a kick :P |
| 00:13.48 | Guest101 | yah it is |
| 00:13.56 | Guest101 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:14.00 | Kaso | piss off |
| 00:14.03 | Gnarfoz | because. |
| 00:14.08 | NightHawkTheSane | it's a breach of contract. |
| 00:14.13 | Guest101 | no its not |
| 00:14.20 | Guest101 | its not my private server |
| 00:14.23 | Esine | Guest101, you're missing a lot when playing on private servers |
| 00:14.27 | Guest101 | i just play on it |
| 00:14.32 | Gnarfoz | I'd contest that, too, but it's a breach of the rules for this channel. :P |
| 00:14.39 | kd3 | go read the EULA you used to start the client again |
| 00:14.39 | Guest101 | i tried the 10 day trial and i didnt like it |
| 00:14.42 | End | batrick: 210 talented |
| 00:14.43 | Esine | Guest101, playing on a private server is the same as if WoW was a single player game |
| 00:14.53 | End | if they have voidstar talisman, add 130 |
| 00:14.55 | NightHawkTheSane | doesn't matter who's private server, by loading the game into any unofficial server, you have breached the ToU and EULA. |
| 00:15.03 | Cairenn | Guest101: we don't discuss private servers here - stop the conversation or leave the channel |
| 00:15.04 | Guest101 | well |
| 00:15.16 | Guest101 | i leave |
| 00:15.18 | Cairenn | bye |
| 00:15.25 | Guest101 | nice talking to u all |
| 00:15.27 | *** part/#wowuidev Guest101 (n=Unregist@cpe-065-191-076-231.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:15.32 | Cairenn | batrick: thanks |
| 00:15.33 | smcn | lol |
| 00:15.41 | Gnarfoz | EULAs, pffsh :> |
| 00:16.13 | batrick | Cairenn: yw |
| 00:16.27 | batrick | End: most affliction locks in 2s will have only, 120 ? |
| 00:16.37 | End | 140 |
| 00:16.41 | End | no |
| 00:16.42 | End | wait |
| 00:16.42 | batrick | k ty |
| 00:16.51 | End | you mean...SL/SL? |
| 00:17.05 | End | when I think affliction I think UA, but that's probably not what you mean |
| 00:17.06 | batrick | I guess |
| 00:17.18 | batrick | whatever warlocks do in 2s |
| 00:17.23 | End | SL/SL mostly :P |
| 00:17.31 | batrick | so ... what resistance? |
| 00:18.01 | End | probably 180-210 |
| 00:18.18 | End | not all put full points in master demo |
| 00:18.38 | End | if they have voidstar talisman, then it doesn't even matter |
| 00:18.47 | End | cuz that adds another 130 |
| 00:19.11 | batrick | resistance scales |
| 00:19.15 | batrick | what they're doing makes no sense |
| 00:19.20 | batrick | (blizzard that is) |
| 00:19.25 | batrick | they did that with a mage talent too |
| 00:19.32 | End | you shouldn't be going after the pet though |
| 00:19.33 | batrick | in wotlk |
| 00:19.42 | batrick | for my team make up you have to |
| 00:19.47 | End | o_O |
| 00:19.49 | batrick | fire/frost mage + disc priest |
| 00:20.28 | End | I'm not sure how that helps that much |
| 00:20.53 | batrick | so at level 80 felhunters will have base 160 resistance? that's rediculous |
| 00:21.01 | End | yes |
| 00:21.09 | batrick | End: better mages than me have tried everything, the only chance they say is to kill the FH |
| 00:21.15 | End | I don't understand why you have to kill the pet first |
| 00:21.28 | End | is it the silence that's a problem? |
| 00:21.51 | batrick | makes it harder to burst the warlock and the silence |
| 00:21.56 | End | well |
| 00:21.58 | batrick | those two together are the reasons I think |
| 00:22.21 | End | if the warlock has the voidstar talisman, you'll do more damage to the pet by doing damage to the warlock :P |
| 00:22.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:22.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko1 (n=Testing@adsl-068-159-119-207.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:22.46 | batrick | probably true |
| 00:22.48 | End | the warlock will have some resistance too, but it'll be around 70 |
| 00:23.33 | batrick | tbh I gave up on arena a while ago and really don't care about strategizing or even winning for that matter |
| 00:23.46 | batrick | but I'm going to try getting more pen on my gear because it's easy enough to do |
| 00:23.51 | End | yeah, I stopped playing months ago |
| 00:23.56 | Wobin | hm |
| 00:23.59 | Wobin | time to try Chrome |
| 00:24.12 | batrick | 2v2 frustrates me so much |
| 00:24.17 | Wobin | it's an interesting look |
| 00:25.09 | MentalPower | I generally like it, but the lack of addons (specifically AdBlock) is a pain |
| 00:25.15 | End | yeah |
| 00:25.22 | End | I agree |
| 00:25.28 | Wobin | Are they planning on having addons like that? |
| 00:25.50 | End | it sounded like they might, but I'm not really sure |
| 00:25.52 | MentalPower | dunno |
| 00:25.59 | MentalPower | I need to watch the press conference |
| 00:26.07 | NightHawkTheSane | it's a little disturbing how powerful firefox is with extensions, and i'm surprised fewer browsers have gone that route.. |
| 00:26.23 | NightHawkTheSane | er, few* |
| 00:27.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Duman: ping |
| 00:27.37 | Kaso | If Chrome had All-in-one gestures addon i'd use it right now |
| 00:27.43 | Kaso | i cant be bothered with buttons |
| 00:27.50 | ScytheBlade1 | meh |
| 00:28.00 | ScytheBlade1 | wtb one process per tab and I'd be entirely too happy with mozilla products |
| 00:28.19 | Wobin | woah woah ScytheBlade1 |
| 00:28.35 | Wobin | you don't want to have to clean up after getting -that- excited |
| 00:28.38 | Kaso | gestures and a working flash pluging, ill refine me request |
| 00:28.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Quaiche (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 00:29.03 | Wobin | reaction time for Chrome is pretty good |
| 00:29.04 | Hirsute | I don't know that it'll take them long* to implement it (*long is in the same family as Blizzard's "soon") |
| 00:29.10 | Wobin | quite fast, noticably |
| 00:29.29 | Hirsute | Aye, I'm liking Chrome. I'll like it more if it ends up being as extensible as FF. |
| 00:30.07 | Wobin | agreed |
| 00:30.23 | Wobin | well, i give it an initial 4/5 |
| 00:30.32 | Esine | anyone get Chrome run on wine? |
| 00:30.34 | Wobin | for what functionality is available, and being a completely new beta |
| 00:30.56 | End | er, didn't they port chrome to linux? |
| 00:31.03 | End | there's a linux link on the download page at least |
| 00:31.08 | Esine | there is? :O |
| 00:31.15 | Esine | wasn't earlier today |
| 00:31.16 | End | I think |
| 00:31.21 | End | I could be wrong |
| 00:31.22 | cogwheel | erm... oops |
| 00:31.26 | cogwheel | mt |
| 00:31.37 | End | well |
| 00:31.40 | End | maybe I'm wrong |
| 00:31.45 | Esine | :) |
| 00:31.52 | Esine | they'll most likely release a linux and os x version later |
| 00:31.53 | Hirsute | Opera and Safari are okay, I guess. IE in all it's forms and the old Netscape browsers can go hug a Pit Bull, as far as I'm concerned. |
| 00:31.58 | Esine | but I'd like to try it now |
| 00:32.15 | Hirsute | Chrome is currently only available for Windows XP/Vista. It's coming for Linux and Mac OS X |
| 00:33.09 | Hirsute | I'm wondering if Chrome will have the same problems with javascript that Safari occasionally has. I'm guessing it will, but hopefully it will overcome those quickly. |
| 00:33.25 | End | Hirsute: they wrote a new js engine I think |
| 00:33.30 | End | called V8 or something? |
| 00:33.30 | Esine | Hirsute, Chrome is using a different javascript engine |
| 00:33.39 | bleeter | yeah, diff thread per tab for JS |
| 00:33.40 | Hirsute | Oh, that's right. |
| 00:33.42 | Kaso | they didnt write it ;p |
| 00:33.51 | Kaso | those awesome danes wrote it |
| 00:33.58 | bleeter | no they didn't |
| 00:34.03 | bleeter | look at the map on the cartoon |
| 00:34.12 | Kaso | or was it swedes? |
| 00:34.12 | bleeter | all the danes, dutch etc. are german, according to google's map |
| 00:34.25 | bleeter | lemme grab the url |
| 00:34.44 | Kaso | it was danes, was the guy pointing at the wrong spot? |
| 00:34.44 | Wobin | hehe yea |
| 00:34.50 | Wobin | all you germans |
| 00:34.56 | bleeter | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/02/chrome_european_map/ |
| 00:35.05 | MentalPower | Kaso: they did write it, one of their EU offices |
| 00:35.32 | bleeter | I wonder if the map reworking is some EU tax dodge |
| 00:36.04 | Kaso | i thought it was an independent company? |
| 00:36.13 | Wobin | interesting |
| 00:36.23 | Wobin | Chrome is the -third- link on google search |
| 00:36.45 | Wobin | actually, there isn't a direct link on the first page |
| 00:36.57 | Kaso | Looks like he's pointing at poland to me |
| 00:36.59 | MentalPower | correct, cause it takes time for the index to reflect it |
| 00:37.12 | smcn | i don't get it |
| 00:37.17 | Wobin | pft, like they can't trigger that =P |
| 00:37.25 | smcn | i don't think he's meant to be pointing at the map.. |
| 00:37.31 | smcn | denmark is pretty much in the center |
| 00:37.36 | smcn | of the panel |
| 00:37.44 | smcn | excluding the speech bubbles |
| 00:37.54 | Kaso | there isnt a line between germany and denmark though |
| 00:39.06 | Kaso | I like how they added a note to the top of the Chromium Linux Build Instructions |
| 00:39.07 | Kaso | "Note: There is no working Chromium-based browser on Linux. Although many Chromium submodules build under Linux and a few unit tests pass, all that runs is a command-line "all tests pass" executable." |
| 00:39.25 | bleeter | lawlz |
| 00:39.37 | Wobin | hm |
| 00:39.39 | Kaso | too many people downloading the source and being disapointed |
| 00:39.44 | Wobin | how big is the chrome download actually? |
| 00:39.51 | Wobin | aside from the 500k bootstrap |
| 00:40.24 | Kaso | i didnt measure it as it was downloading but it didnt take long so ill say "not big" |
| 00:40.55 | Kaso | chrome.7z : 21.8mb |
| 00:40.59 | Wobin | ta |
| 00:41.05 | Kaso | i presume that is what the installer downloaded |
| 00:43.07 | *** kick/#WoWUIDev [Sargeras!n=Dolby@MMOI/Administrator/Dolby] by Dolby (Dolby) |
| 00:43.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Sargeras (n=Guest@cpe-98-148-167-228.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 00:43.14 | Seerah | wagers on troll? http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=60917F47B5A1AB788838C4345D09679B.app05_06?topicId=9336499947&sid=1 |
| 00:43.20 | Seerah | *troll or not |
| 00:43.31 | Kaso | 2b6d50f92d522c2ccdf884d3aeb0aaa9 *chrome.7z |
| 00:45.07 | NightHawkTheSane | Seerah: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." :P |
| 00:45.39 | Seerah | my thoughts were that it was either a lame troll or someone being stupid :) |
| 00:45.41 | Kaso | nice quote |
| 00:45.44 | Lopeppeppy | "I am innocent of all but malice." |
| 00:45.46 | Kaso | Im going to use that |
| 00:45.56 | Seerah | being a teacher, I always *hope* that people aren't that dumb :) |
| 00:46.09 | Dashkal | oh this brings back memories: http://games.slashdot.org/games/08/09/02/2234227.shtml |
| 00:46.10 | ScytheBlade1 | I just copied over to beta with this: http://images.aboveaverageurl.com/WoW/Wrath/WoWScrnShot_090208_184349.jpg |
| 00:46.18 | Dashkal | red alert 1 released freeware |
| 00:46.31 | Lopeppeppy | Seerah, are you an optimist? |
| 00:46.41 | Seerah | mostly ;) |
| 00:46.57 | Dashkal | ScytheBlade1: Can I borrow a mana pot? :p |
| 00:47.01 | NightHawkTheSane | ScytheBlade1: ... thats a lot of mana potions you're not going to use... |
| 00:47.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Dashkal: here, have sixty |
| 00:47.06 | Dashkal | heh |
| 00:48.23 | NightHawkTheSane | optimism is curable? o_0 |
| 00:49.11 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, yes, yes it very much is, NightHawkTheSane. Trust me. |
| 00:49.22 | Seerah | opti-poisoning (opti-cooties in some circles) |
| 00:49.28 | NightHawkTheSane | man, just thinking about that cure depresses me... |
| 00:53.39 | smcn | okay, i need something that will search and destroy folders that *don't* have a specific file type in them |
| 00:54.01 | smcn | or at least destroy the files |
| 00:54.16 | NightHawkTheSane | sounds like a job for perl! |
| 00:54.18 | Wobin | like... all your system folders and any random folder? |
| 00:54.44 | ScytheBlade1 | Esamynn|Away: you need to be less away, and more on beta to promote my new alts so I can dump stupid amounts of materials in the guild bank |
| 00:55.11 | smcn | i restructured my music collection and have an assortment of leftover directories with m3u and jpg's |
| 00:55.18 | smcn | of which i want neither |
| 00:56.25 | NightHawkTheSane | srsly, sounds like a short perl script. |
| 00:56.25 | smcn | that's actually not a bad idea |
| 00:56.25 | smcn | since i don't know perl, best way i learn is with a project :P |
| 00:56.25 | NightHawkTheSane | :D see, there you go! |
| 00:56.25 | smcn | <3 |
| 00:56.25 | Wobin | smcn: what OS? |
| 00:56.25 | smcn | winxp |
| 00:56.44 | Wobin | why don't you just search for .jpg under the directory structure |
| 00:56.51 | Wobin | then select and delete them all? |
| 00:57.26 | smcn | because i want to delete the folders too, and right now my focus has changed to learning perl! a basic knowledge, anyways |
| 00:57.43 | smcn | i no longer care about doing it quickly, must 2 lern perl |
| 00:57.54 | Lopeppeppy | no, smcn. |
| 00:58.04 | smcn | ;pl |
| 00:58.04 | Lopeppeppy | Learn python, make me a new server hamster. |
| 00:58.07 | Lopeppeppy | http://xkcd.com/413/ |
| 00:58.13 | Wobin | NightHawkTheSane is also not |
| 00:58.42 | Lopeppeppy | I don't think he ever was, actually |
| 00:58.46 | Wobin | wtf wtf |
| 00:58.54 | Wobin | xkcd does not show up on chrome |
| 00:58.59 | smcn | i noticed that earlier |
| 00:59.21 | NightHawkTheSane | actually, python's good too, i just know perl is all. *shrug* |
| 00:59.22 | Codayus_ | Hmmm, it does... |
| 00:59.26 | Wobin | well that's kinda terrible |
| 00:59.30 | Codayus_ | But not if you follow that link. |
| 00:59.30 | Wobin | that link doesn't |
| 00:59.43 | Codayus_ | Go to xkcd, you can browse the archives by clicking prev. |
| 01:00.04 | cbreak | it seems chrome is more or less safari |
| 01:00.07 | cbreak | with a different GUI |
| 01:00.11 | Lopeppeppy | That's what I've found, cbreak |
| 01:00.28 | Wobin | it is |
| 01:00.42 | NightHawkTheSane | thats.. what it more or less is. *shrug* although i guess they've done some odd things to webkit |
| 01:00.43 | smcn | i know, i'll do it in both perl and python! redundancy ftw! |
| 01:00.46 | Wobin | but if I can only find xkcd by clicking on the buttons, that's terrible |
| 01:00.47 | alestane | It has components in common with Safari. |
| 01:00.50 | Codayus_ | Eh, there's a fair few differences. But...yeah, it uses Webkit. |
| 01:00.55 | NightHawkTheSane | http://www.flickr.com/photos/kurafire/2822606444/ |
| 01:02.24 | Codayus_ | Hmmm, xkcd shows up in Google Reader in chrome... |
| 01:02.25 | smcn | and then when i'm done i can put perl and python on my resume |
| 01:02.27 | smcn | ! |
| 01:02.49 | Codayus_ | But following a link from the feed doesn't work. Most odd. |
| 01:03.11 | Lopeppeppy | Both use Webkit -- Chrome and Safari -- correct? |
| 01:03.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Yes |
| 01:03.27 | Codayus_ | Lopeppeppy: Yes. |
| 01:03.49 | Lopeppeppy | Ah. *nod* |
| 01:05.18 | Codayus_ | There's more to a browser than the rendering engine. Chrome has or claims to have some nice improvements with regards to memory management, stability, and speed of javascript execution. |
| 01:06.17 | Lopeppeppy | The rendering engine is probably the base of why neither Safari nor Chrome work with my work software though. |
| 01:06.24 | Codayus_ | I note my copy of Firefox is currently soaking up a mere 332mb...AND 7% of my CPU, which is impressive. |
| 01:07.05 | Codayus_ | Since it's currently minimized, and just displaying a bunch of essentially static pages.... |
| 01:07.17 | smcn | wow |
| 01:08.13 | smcn | interesting having chrome's task manager open when minimizing and switching tabs and whatnot ;P |
| 01:09.53 | Codayus_ | Lopeppeppy: Yep. :-( On the plus(?) side, with Apple pushing it as part of Safari, and Google now pushing it as part of Chrome AND as part of Android (their cellphone platform), I suspect such problems will go away...eventually... |
| 01:10.50 | Lopeppeppy | Eventually. :) |
| 01:11.02 | Lopeppeppy | We'll ditch this system long before that, I should hope. |
| 01:11.12 | Codayus_ | Heh |
| 01:11.18 | Codayus_ | Good luck. |
| 01:12.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Tinyboom (n=nahh@71.80-202-153.nextgentel.com) |
| 01:19.14 | Lunessa | Ah believe you have mai stapler. |
| 01:19.39 | ReAn | anyone have a good tutorial on integrating with the Blizzard Options Frame? |
| 01:20.11 | kd3 | the 2.4 changes sticky |
| 01:20.18 | kd3 | or the code itself |
| 01:20.20 | kd3 | ~framexml |
| 01:20.21 | purl | Get the official Blizzard Interface AddOn Kit here: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/ui/ or view it online at http://wowcompares.com/ |
| 01:22.22 | alestane | ReAn: Do you want to submit a whole panel, or a button to a Blizzard panel? |
| 01:23.12 | ReAn | I wanna do something similar to ag_UnitFrames where under the "Addon" tab in the interface options there's an entry for my mod which when selected shows a single button which opens my AceConfig dialog. |
| 01:24.28 | NightHawkTheSane | have you considered just looking at how aguf does it? :p |
| 01:24.52 | ReAn | i did, it's not very clear, especially since the mod is broken up into 3 mods |
| 01:25.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Tinyboom (n=nahh@71.80-202-153.nextgentel.com) |
| 01:27.14 | alestane | While my first response to a knee-jerk "That's not how the system is supposed to be used!", if you're trying to save time like that, you can make a frame that contains that button, set parent.name = "MyMod", and call InterfaceOptionsAddCategory(frameWithButton). |
| 01:28.07 | alestane | Or talk to Karl, who is (I believe) working on a library to set up whole interface panels by providing lists of options, in a manner similar to Ace. |
| 01:28.17 | ReAn | alestane: That's prettymuch exactly what i was looking for |
| 01:28.19 | ReAn | thanks |
| 01:28.30 | alestane | But who isn't on right now. |
| 01:28.34 | alestane | ~seen KarlKFI |
| 01:28.35 | purl | karlkfi <n=chatzill@adcom137.adcom.uci.edu> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowuidev, 11d 1h 42m 25s ago, saying: 'thought it was 3x dmg?'. |
| 01:28.49 | AnduinLothar | sup? |
| 01:28.57 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: i was going to say, that's AnduinLothar :P |
| 01:29.07 | kd3 | whee... the vatican's 7 flavors of sin: http://bp0.blogger.com/_FBXGhy-QmVw/R9chRi_FBAI/AAAAAAAABnA/2FXNWcuouH8/s1600-h/card1402.JPG |
| 01:29.29 | alestane | I've often suspected as much, but never entirely understood why sometimes I'm talking to KarlKFI and sometimes to AnduinLothar. |
| 01:29.41 | alestane | AnduinLothar: Talk to ReAn about Portfolio. |
| 01:29.44 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: mpd *nod* :p |
| 01:30.06 | ReAn | portfolio? |
| 01:30.45 | alestane | Or is that Esamynn's baby? I don't remember right now, sorry. |
| 01:30.52 | AnduinLothar | it's mine |
| 01:30.57 | AnduinLothar | i dotn have doc written yet |
| 01:31.06 | alestane | Oh good, I'm not insane...at least in that regard. |
| 01:31.12 | AnduinLothar | there's an alpha version in Cosmos |
| 01:31.53 | AnduinLothar | I'm also working ona version for wotlk that has sliders working. I haven't gotten around to dropdowns yet. |
| 01:32.08 | alestane | I just ask because ReAn's trying to work with the Interface panels and AceConfig in what I consider a slightly hackish (if understandable) way, and thought maybe that could help her. |
| 01:32.11 | alestane | or him. |
| 01:32.35 | ReAn | well i dont really want to use the blizz options frame |
| 01:32.43 | ReAn | i just want to provide that as a way to get to the options |
| 01:33.04 | ReAn | incase people are too stupid to read the "type /rune config to open the dialog" |
| 01:34.11 | AnduinLothar | making 2 GUI ways to set the same options is usually bad practice |
| 01:34.30 | AnduinLothar | you could just add a blizz config with a button that opens yours |
| 01:35.04 | Lunessa | Or just use the blizzard one... |
| 01:35.16 | alestane | That's what s/he was talking about doing. I felt like that sort of missed the point. But I know a lot of people love Ace for its ability to save you writing an options UI. |
| 01:35.20 | AnduinLothar | right, but i assume he already has the ace ones written |
| 01:36.39 | alestane | NightHawkTheSane: I don't disagree, but I know in my case I can often right an engine for something in half an hour, and then spend six writing the GUI. |
| 01:37.37 | NightHawkTheSane | alestane: yeah, although i've also found that's the case in 99% of situations, not strictly limited to wow addons. so *shrug* :) |
| 01:40.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Rabbitbunny (n=Bunny@unaffiliated/rabbitbunny) |
| 01:41.21 | ReAn | <+AnduinLothar> you could just add a blizz config with a button that opens yours <--- that's exactly what i meant |
| 01:41.38 | Lunessa | Two things programmers hate to do - write the UI and write the docs. |
| 01:41.48 | ReAn | lol |
| 01:42.21 | Lunessa | in 20 years of software development, I've never seen this proven false. :P |
| 01:42.36 | ReAn | ui isn't as bad as docs imho |
| 01:43.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (n=Dune@208-104-142-238.rhhe1.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 01:43.22 | Rabbitbunny | You uh... you like doing ui? |
| 01:43.47 | ReAn | to a point |
| 01:44.14 | Rabbitbunny | ...Wanna do one? |
| 01:44.25 | ReAn | i <3 ui coding in .NET, it's alright in wow mods, not a big fan of java (swing/awt) or anything in c++ |
| 01:44.28 | ReAn | lol |
| 01:45.48 | ReAn | alestane / AnduinLothar: the frame i pass to blizz, what does the parent have to be? |
| 01:46.47 | bleeter | ScytheBlade1: have you heard of... Taney? |
| 01:46.55 | ReAn | that and can anyone remind me the path to the Default Button Graphic? |
| 01:47.02 | bleeter | ScytheBlade1: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9336870893&sid=1 |
| 01:47.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:47.25 | Syzgyn | General question: Are there any Autobar alternatives? |
| 01:47.35 | bleeter | ScytheBlade1: Taney's the guy who ticketed GMs for restored of refreshing spring water, and the romantic picnic basket (saying he lost it about three months before it got put ingame) |
| 01:48.14 | ScytheBlade1 | bleeter: I have not |
| 01:48.17 | Lopeppeppy | syzgyn, not that I've ever found. I'm using an extremely old (read: less complicated) version myself. |
| 01:48.42 | Syzgyn | Yeah, I'm trying to reduce my UI memory load, and its one of the higher offenders |
| 01:49.40 | Rabbitbunny | What does it do? |
| 01:49.55 | bleeter | ScytheBlade1: Taney is... a .. 'legend' on CSF... and I use that term with some hesitation |
| 01:50.12 | Syzgyn | Rabbitbunny: Autobar? |
| 01:50.14 | ScytheBlade1 | apparently |
| 01:50.24 | alestane | ReAn: It doesn't need a parent IIRC, the InterfaceOptions code will reparent it to the display panel. |
| 01:50.29 | Rabbitbunny | Yes. |
| 01:50.45 | Syzgyn | It's a dynamic bar for your pots and such |
| 01:51.08 | ReAn | alestane: you mentioned something like parent.name = "MyMod" |
| 01:51.13 | ReAn | that's why i asked |
| 01:51.19 | Rabbitbunny | Ah. |
| 01:51.20 | Syzgyn | http://code.google.com/p/autobar/ |
| 01:51.31 | ScytheBlade1 | bleeter: BOO THREAD DELETED AS I WAS READING |
| 01:51.43 | ScytheBlade1 | bleeter: just clicked over to 4 and poof |
| 01:51.54 | Syzgyn | haha |
| 01:51.59 | alestane | ReAn: You need two frames: a panel, and a button. Whatever the panel's name ends up being, its .name field should be set to the name of your AddOn. |
| 01:52.05 | NightHawkTheSane | Syzgyn: sadly, no, nothing really comes close. >< |
| 01:52.06 | bleeter | ScytheBlade1: yeah, I suspect the GM might've revealed a little more than they intended ;) |
| 01:52.36 | alestane | Although you might conceivably be able to get away with merging them, I wouldn't recommend it unless you're willing to muck around with it. |
| 01:52.53 | *** topic/#WoWUIDev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 2.4.x ToC: 20400 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | BlizzCon UI Community Tentative Schedule: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17443 || Weather Forecast: Slightly bitchy with a chance of mmrowr fsst! |
| 01:53.02 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 01:53.20 | Cairenn | :) |
| 01:53.42 | Syzgyn | I guess I dont even really need it anymore |
| 01:53.57 | Syzgyn | I only have bandages healthstones and haste pots on it |
| 01:54.17 | ReAn | alestane: Just got a lua error: "attempt to call global 'InterfaceOptionsAddCategory' (a nil value)" |
| 01:54.49 | alestane | I think there's a blank in it; InterfaceOptions_AddCategory. |
| 01:57.05 | ReAn | wewt, i have an entry in the tree, but there's nothing in it when selected *sigh* |
| 01:57.37 | ReAn | ah |
| 01:57.40 | alestane | Make sure you Button has textures or inherits from a standard Blizz Template that does. |
| 01:57.40 | ReAn | that's cuz im a retard |
| 01:58.08 | ReAn | forgot :SetPoint() :p |
| 01:59.31 | Lopeppeppy | Only 7 more minutes to download the first Beta client... *sigh* |
| 01:59.59 | Syzgyn | You've got another GB of patches at least :P |
| 02:00.13 | ReAn | anyone know any metrics mods that measure cpu usage of ui mods? |
| 02:00.35 | Syzgyn | PreformaceFu, picoFPS |
| 02:00.39 | Syzgyn | theres a bunch |
| 02:00.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 02:00.52 | ReAn | coolies |
| 02:00.59 | |Jelly| | ~hug Peppy |
| 02:01.00 | purl | ACTION sneaks up on Peppy and suddenly hugs Peppy tightly |
| 02:01.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Matrix110 (i=Matrix11@pD957F6AF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:01.23 | Lopeppeppy | Syzgyn, don't encourage me, kk? I can't take the depression. |
| 02:02.23 | Lopeppeppy | Mmm.... Lunessa you have just been entered for canonization. |
| 02:02.33 | ReAn | anyone know a good LibDataBroker display addon? |
| 02:02.42 | Lunessa | St. Lunessa. You may kiss my ring. :P |
| 02:03.03 | ScytheBlade1 | Lopeppeppy: downloading patches? |
| 02:04.09 | Syzgyn | ReAn: I like Fortress over StatBlockCore |
| 02:04.30 | Lopeppeppy | Lunessa, a ring is in fact kept on your hand. |
| 02:04.40 | Lopeppeppy | ScytheBlade1, installing the client first. Then patches. :) |
| 02:04.57 | Cairenn | Lopeppeppy: not all of them |
| 02:05.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Lopeppeppy: while I don't have the space on my server for all of them, I *do* have the last patch up there right now, if that would save you any time in the long run |
| 02:05.17 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: Right. You know, people kiss the Pope's ring, or a cardinals... why not a saints? |
| 02:05.18 | Cairenn | toe-ring, ear-ring, coerrrnm |
| 02:05.37 | ReAn | thx Syzgyn |
| 02:05.41 | Esamynn | ScytheBlade1: I just did promotions on beta, if your alts didn't get promoted, then you haven't followed the rules |
| 02:05.43 | Lunessa | Cairenn: Durty mindz, we has dem. |
| 02:05.48 | Corrodias | ooookay. talking about kissing toe-rings, now i'm getting all bothered |
| 02:05.52 | *** join/#wowuidev IdentifyTarget (n=Identify@241.23.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 02:05.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Esamynn: okay, thanks. I put "Sbo" in both of their names, I believe |
| 02:06.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Give me a sec and I'll double check |
| 02:06.21 | Esamynn | ScytheBlade1: check the rules :P |
| 02:06.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Esamynn: I've read them many times, unless you changed them |
| 02:06.45 | Esamynn | not recently |
| 02:06.53 | ScytheBlade1 | "Or other well known name" |
| 02:06.54 | Esamynn | you need to provide a hint as to the name's source |
| 02:06.55 | Lopeppeppy | ScytheBlade1, I'm starting from scratch, and downloading while I'm at work, so the time isn't really a factor. But thank you dead. *hug* |
| 02:07.01 | ScytheBlade1 | ~hug Lopeppeppy |
| 02:07.02 | purl | ACTION jumps into Lopeppeppy's lap and huggles and *hugs* Lopeppeppy |
| 02:07.19 | Esamynn | ScytheBlade1: I honestly didn't connect Sbo to you :P |
| 02:07.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Esamynn: okay done |
| 02:07.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Esamynn: then no worries - many people here do, but eh |
| 02:07.44 | ScytheBlade1 | Let me check my cloned mage real quick |
| 02:07.45 | Wobin | it's clearly a minimisation of his name here |
| 02:07.50 | Wobin | scythe blade one |
| 02:08.07 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: RDP FTW? |
| 02:08.20 | Wobin | and not just a "oh someone already has ScytheBlade as a nick here'' =) |
| 02:10.05 | Lopeppeppy | Lunessa, you just hurt my brain? |
| 02:10.45 | Lunessa | Lopeppeppy: Remote Desktop. I usually login to my Windows Box at home from work and make it download patches. |
| 02:11.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Esamynn: thanks again |
| 02:11.25 | Lopeppeppy | That is beyond the Scope of Peppy-Do, darlin', although it sounds like magic fun. |
| 02:11.30 | Esamynn | ScytheBlade1: not a problem |
| 02:11.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Lopeppeppy: it probably isn't, truth be told. Check a box, forward a port, done deal. |
| 02:12.22 | ReAn | interesting... i have a very very small memory leak in my ui mod >_> |
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| 02:12.27 | Lopeppeppy | ScytheBlade1, anything you don't understand is automatically magic. :) |
| 02:12.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Lopeppeppy: now you understand 90% of it. :) |
| 02:12.59 | Lopeppeppy | It's that last 10% that sucks. |
| 02:13.04 | ScytheBlade1 | The doing it? Yeah. |
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| 02:13.36 | Corrodias | forwarding a port / opening a port in a firewall is probably the hardest part for most folks to understand |
| 02:14.48 | Lopeppeppy | I understand the concepts thereof, but I've been rather sick all day, and thus the practicality of it is beyond me. |
| 02:15.12 | Lopeppeppy | Jackie Chan rules though. |
| 02:15.24 | ScytheBlade1 | That sucks, peppey :( |
| 02:16.25 | Lopeppeppy | Meh, I'm just all tired and mopey, it's survivable. |
| 02:18.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Go to sleep early! |
| 02:18.58 | Lopeppeppy | Almost downloaded. :) |
| 02:19.03 | ScytheBlade1 | Or that |
| 02:19.11 | ReAn | anyone know how frequently wow garbage collects by default? |
| 02:19.19 | Lunessa | So, we hired a new guy to work the night shift, finally going to let me work a saner schedule... and ... now they're trying to keep his schedule to earlier hours. Makes me SO ANGRY. |
| 02:19.51 | Lopeppeppy | ... oh no they didn't. |
| 02:20.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Lunessa: my initial response was "just stab him, that'll solve the problem" - then I realized that it wouldn't |
| 02:20.33 | Corrodias | ReAn: as i recall, it's distributed |
| 02:21.03 | Corrodias | back in the day, it was when you hit, like... 1.5 times the amount you had after the last GC cycle |
| 02:21.14 | Lunessa | I was promised I could start going home at 8:30 at night. But oh no. "He's not ready." And "He has a wife and kids." Yeah? Well I'd like a chance to have a date again before I turn fucking 40. |
| 02:21.17 | Corrodias | (allocated memory) |
| 02:22.31 | Wobin | Lunessa: Start going home at 8:30 |
| 02:22.38 | ScytheBlade1 | ^ |
| 02:22.48 | Lunessa | Yeah. Exactly. |
| 02:23.12 | Wobin | ~comfort Lunessa |
| 02:23.13 | purl | There, there, Lunessa. It's OK. I'm here for you. |
| 02:23.13 | Lopeppeppy | They tried to use that on me too, Lunessa. "I am just as entitled to "family time" as he is. I want one, and that does require something like regular hours." |
| 02:24.05 | Wobin | what time do you start work, Lunessa? |
| 02:24.24 | Lunessa | I start at 1pm and leave at 10:30pm |
| 02:29.09 | Wobin | http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1050667/Schoolgirl-smashes-world-record-lets-25-snails-slither-face.html |
| 02:32.54 | Corrodias | okay |
| 02:33.00 | Corrodias | "smashes" is a bad word to use in that context |
| 02:35.21 | ReAn | ahahahahaha |
| 02:35.31 | ReAn | dalaran -> anywhere flightpath is bugged |
| 02:35.41 | ReAn | it takes you over icecrown |
| 02:35.47 | ReAn | and you get flagged by the punt-script |
| 02:36.24 | Wobin | I wonder if you can be dismounted off a flightpath |
| 02:36.44 | ReAn | it teleports you to Borean Tundra |
| 02:36.48 | Wobin | I can see an enterprising druid waiting over the flightpath to rawrbomb passing opposition |
| 02:37.45 | Wobin | ReAn: so.. by definition... if you were flying to the Borean Tundra, you'd be fine? =) |
| 02:39.22 | ReAn | actually |
| 02:39.24 | ReAn | better than fine |
| 02:39.27 | ReAn | it's a faster flight! |
| 02:39.31 | ReAn | and yes... i was flying there! |
| 02:39.39 | Wobin | see? Win! |
| 02:39.51 | ReAn | it's kinda like that bug eons ago when you hit someone on a FP with a snowball it teleported them to the end |
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| 02:42.38 | Wobin | I did that to watch people being chased by trails of snowballss |
| 02:47.59 | Lopeppeppy | Yup. Patch 1 done, now it's for Peppy Bedtime. Night guys. |
| 02:48.12 | NightHawkTheSane | night Lopeppeppy :) |
| 02:48.26 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-68-172-80-6.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 02:56.03 | Syzgyn | NightHawkTheSane: Fly from Dalaran to Sholazar |
| 03:01.21 | *** join/#wowuidev quoin (n=quoin@122-49-159-41.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 03:05.21 | NightHawkTheSane | Syzgyn: that's not "dalaran->anywhere" though. ;) |
| 03:05.42 | *** part/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (n=Dark_Elf@ip184.net253.mw.net) |
| 03:10.08 | smcn | chrome with 10 tabs: 110k, firefox with about:blank: 56k ? |
| 03:10.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 03:11.23 | smcn | i guess firefox has more front-loaded memory usage.. |
| 03:15.01 | *** join/#wowuidev WobWork (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 03:18.06 | Cairenn | yum, thank you |
| 03:18.14 | Syzgyn | Strange flavor |
| 03:18.19 | NightHawkTheSane | popsicles make everything better |
| 03:18.33 | Syzgyn | Vodka flavored popsicles maybe |
| 03:18.45 | Cairenn | can't believe people are accusing us of favouritism |
| 03:19.18 | |Jelly| | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:19.42 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18023 |
| 03:20.43 | Nechckn | Everyone should know *I* am Cairenn's favorite, anyway! |
| 03:20.53 | Thunder_Child | Cairenn, isnt it honorable not honourable (not that i should be asking about spelling) |
| 03:21.08 | Cairenn | only if you are in the US :p |
| 03:21.29 | Thunder_Child | ok |
| 03:27.13 | Saiket | I give up. My mod can crash all it likes until the next beta patch. |
| 03:27.29 | Saiket | Things like this fix themselves, right? |
| 03:27.43 | ccox | Saiket - never |
| 03:27.52 | Saiket | I can dream. |
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| 03:34.44 | Lunessa | Cairenn: Sour grapes and "I need to stick it to da man"/envy will make that happen no matter what. |
| 03:36.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Keias (n=Dave@c-69-245-192-208.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 03:38.28 | Lunessa | Ok, I'm out of here. See you all tomorrow. |
| 03:39.10 | smcn | ELSIF? wtf is that shit |
| 03:39.20 | smcn | teh sux |
| 03:39.50 | Syzgyn | Thunder_Child: Destroyer of Dreams... |
| 03:39.53 | Syzgyn | ~scream |
| 03:39.54 | purl | aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!!! |
| 03:44.58 | Tekkub | so now... is it just me or does the fact that sone nat'l realtor's assoc has to take out a radio add to "remind you that the realestate market is 'fundamentally sound'" just *scream* "IT'S NOT WE'RE DESPERATE!" |
| 03:47.33 | Tekkub | also, Cairenn, stupid little intersitital made me think of you for soem reason |
| 03:47.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 03:47.46 | Tekkub | "This is a baby kitten, he loves new music doesn't he? *squee* DOESN'T HE? *SQUEEK!* Does baby kitten want to go in the washer again? *Squ....* I thought so!" |
| 03:48.15 | smcn | SQU! |
| 03:49.01 | *** topic/#WoWUIDev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 2.4.x ToC: 20400 | #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting | BlizzCon UI Community Tentative Schedule: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17443 | "And people wonder why sites get to the point that they just throw their hands up in the air and say "fuck it" and never hold another contest ...." |
| 03:49.33 | smcn | :O |
| 03:49.51 | steev | wut contest |
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| 03:50.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Untitled-10FA147 (n=TC@cpe-76-171-31-114.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 03:51.11 | Tekkub | it got called off before it was announced |
| 03:51.43 | cog|away | ~hug Cairenn |
| 03:51.44 | purl | ACTION hugs Cairenn tightly until Cairenn turns slightly blue |
| 03:52.08 | steev | that... sucks i guess? |
| 03:52.19 | cog|away | steev: don't listen to Tekkub |
| 03:52.42 | cog|away | see http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18023 |
| 03:52.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Pytlask (n=Jacob@ip68-111-86-113.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 03:54.02 | steev | rofl |
| 03:54.06 | steev | ozy's is awesome |
| 03:54.21 | steev | like when i was sitting in here chatting instead of main healing in ZA the other night |
| 03:54.51 | Tekkub | see I woulda made one but I couldn't think up anything good |
| 03:55.11 | Tekkub | plus it would have been stick figures and everyone would just say I ripped off xkcd |
| 03:55.14 | Wobin | but you're an addon author! =P |
| 03:55.31 | Tekkub | so that's a DQ? |
| 03:55.39 | Wobin | apparently |
| 03:56.52 | Hirsute | Wow... there's a *lot* of whiny qq in that thread. |
| 03:57.08 | cog|away | srsly |
| 03:57.16 | smcn | good thing that chauronity person didn't win, he sounds like the type of person who would complain about server first titles |
| 03:57.25 | smcn | and god knows we don't need another 50 threads about thta |
| 03:57.29 | Cairenn | yup, which is why I'm now in a pissy mood instead of the good mood I'd been in earlier |
| 03:57.31 | Pytlask | Tekkub: I think someone DID do that |
| 03:58.11 | Tekkub | does Cairenn want to go in the washer with new music baby kitten? |
| 03:58.21 | Cairenn | heh |
| 03:58.58 | Pytlask | Tekkub: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showpost.php?p=100734&postcount=70 |
| 03:59.04 | smcn | you wanna tank a dump in chauronity's shoes? come on, let's go take a dump in chauronity's shoes |
| 03:59.32 | Cairenn | be nice guys, no flaming |
| 03:59.45 | *** join/#wowuidev WobWork (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 03:59.45 | Tekkub | *cough* I would at least make better than MSPaint stick figures |
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| 04:02.00 | Pytlask | Maya stick figures? |
| 04:05.10 | steev | ahh that kinda stuff |
| 04:05.18 | steev | well that makes sense |
| 04:06.12 | steev | im too lazy or some such to sign up for the site so i didn't bother entering :-P (plus i didn't know the contest existed and so forth) |
| 04:07.45 | batrick | I really liked this one: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showpost.php?p=99962&postcount=18 |
| 04:11.36 | Tekkub | after reading through all those I must say... noone else has any artistic talent either! |
| 04:11.49 | batrick | no u dont |
| 04:11.50 | batrick | ! |
| 04:12.03 | Tekkub | you can tell the crafty ones cause they used modelviewer so they didn't have to draw anything |
| 04:12.08 | Pytlask | some weren't bad |
| 04:12.12 | Pytlask | in terms of art |
| 04:13.01 | Tekkub | uhm... "in terms of art" a solid white canvas "isn't bad" either |
| 04:13.39 | Pytlask | art in #68 isn't half bad |
| 04:14.09 | Pytlask | 42 was pretty good art |
| 04:14.34 | WobWork | hm |
| 04:14.41 | WobWork | Chrome doesn't allow for Facebook to work properly |
| 04:14.48 | Tekkub | 42 is totally isometric |
| 04:15.01 | Tekkub | WobWork, WTB adblock for Chrome PST |
| 04:15.06 | Pytlask | 63 isn't horrible (not at all realistic, but an interesting art style) |
| 04:15.08 | WobWork | Tekkub: agreed |
| 04:15.37 | Tekkub | Chrome's wonderful for work shit... but as soon as I get out in "the wild internet" I want to stab myself |
| 04:16.03 | Tekkub | processes are great and all, but the best way to not have flash crash if to STOP USING IT FOR SHITTY ADS |
| 04:16.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 04:16.41 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 04:23.53 | End | TS posts on wowinterface? :o |
| 04:24.10 | Pytlask | who is TS? |
| 04:24.17 | End | CT = Cide and TS |
| 04:24.29 | Cide | ts posts on wowinterface? |
| 04:24.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Tekkub: that's why I don't install flash. Problem solved! |
| 04:24.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Thelyna (n=burp@122-57-242-89.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 04:24.45 | End | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showpost.php?p=100658&postcount=55 |
| 04:24.52 | Tekkub | ScytheBlade1 fails at Google Chrome |
| 04:24.53 | End | amused me btw |
| 04:24.59 | Cairenn | Cide, occasionally :p |
| 04:25.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Tekkub: orly |
| 04:25.17 | Tekkub | no option to not install, or I neve would have |
| 04:25.25 | End | haha, "not even omen can save you now!" |
| 04:25.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Wait, really? Automatic flash download and install? |
| 04:25.38 | ScytheBlade1 | That's one way to make me never ever use the browser |
| 04:25.45 | WobWork | I think it's intergrated =P |
| 04:25.50 | End | yeah |
| 04:25.54 | End | needs addons imo |
| 04:25.55 | WobWork | there never was a prompt |
| 04:26.00 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm going to stab someone if that's true |
| 04:26.01 | Tekkub | seriously needs addons |
| 04:26.01 | End | WTB flashblock |
| 04:26.16 | Tekkub | flashblock and adblock are damn near required |
| 04:26.16 | End | but I'm winning omen! |
| 04:26.20 | End | yeah |
| 04:26.45 | Tekkub | and they need to integrate with google bookmarks |
| 04:26.48 | End | yeah |
| 04:26.50 | Tekkub | their bookmarks blow |
| 04:26.57 | End | although they're getting rid of google bookmarks :-/ |
| 04:27.12 | End | (which is why on firefox I use foxmarks lately) |
| 04:27.29 | ScytheBlade1 | I just need some universal extension that I can point to a self hosted service to give me bookmarks |
| 04:27.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Then I'd actually use them |
| 04:28.40 | Jamash | I use the del.icio.us integration extension, it's pretty good |
| 04:28.47 | Tekkub | yea, either way, Chrome's a beautiful start, I hope they churn out new versions liek mad |
| 04:28.50 | Pytlask | <3 delicious |
| 04:28.58 | End | I agree, Tekkub |
| 04:29.16 | Pytlask | I like the minimalistic approach |
| 04:29.27 | Tekkub | I mean fuck it practically has firebug built in |
| 04:29.34 | End | yeah |
| 04:29.39 | smcn | Error 2 (net::ERR_FAILED): Unknown error |
| 04:29.53 | smcn | getting that constantly after having it open for like 5 hours.. |
| 04:29.58 | End | weird |
| 04:30.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Fatalis2 (n=fatalis@68-188-76-94.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 04:30.29 | WobWork | smcn: It's still a windows program |
| 04:30.35 | smcn | :p |
| 04:30.37 | WobWork | they're not designed to be open that long =) |
| 04:30.38 | Pytlask | haha, <3 the anims when you drag tabs |
| 04:30.40 | End | lol |
| 04:30.43 | End | well |
| 04:30.56 | End | it wouldn't surprise me if Unknown Error was an error from the OS :P |
| 04:31.23 | WobWork | "this program has been open for more than one hour without increasing it's memory requirements. This is clearly an error" |
| 04:31.34 | smcn | yeah me neither, also i've had like 10 tabs open the whole time as i'm teaching myself perl :P |
| 04:31.43 | Hirsute | Ah, yes. Here comes the Windows bashing. |
| 04:32.10 | WobWork | Hirsute: pft, like I could be bothered to seriously bash windows |
| 04:32.34 | WobWork | Try not to be -too- high and mighty about it =P |
| 04:32.44 | Jamash | Am I the only one who doesn't really care about Chrome? |
| 04:32.53 | Pytlask | Yes |
| 04:33.10 | WobWork | hm, without adblock, I have much less screen real estate |
| 04:33.20 | Hirsute | Not necessarily high and might about it... just worked with some pretty crazy Mac fanatics for 5 years that couldn't shut up about how much they thought Windows sucked. It got old. I'd prefer to use linux myself. |
| 04:33.22 | WobWork | which is pretty bad on a 10" screen |
| 04:33.31 | Jamash | I'll go sit in my corner then. |
| 04:33.43 | WobWork | Hirsute: No one here is fanatic about anything =P |
| 04:33.59 | WobWork | It takes too much effort |
| 04:34.39 | Hirsute | Jamash: I think Chrome is interesting. It's definitely still a Beta, and not going to be my my default or only browser any time soon. But it's interesting. |
| 04:34.50 | WobWork | Jamash: it's a new product that offers what is supposed to be something different in approach |
| 04:34.53 | *** join/#wowuidev cayres (n=cayres@ip68-103-160-30.ks.ok.cox.net) |
| 04:35.54 | Syzgyn | How is it so different? |
| 04:36.19 | smcn | the comic answers that question :P |
| 04:36.48 | Syzgyn | What comic then? |
| 04:36.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Fisker- (i=ballmer@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 04:36.58 | smcn | http://www.google.com/googlebooks/chrome/ |
| 04:37.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|zZz (n=skullsho@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 04:37.06 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik|zZz] by ChanServ |
| 04:37.23 | Syzgyn | I disagree with the first bubble |
| 04:38.22 | smcn | yeah, i didn't buy that either but pretty much everything else resonated with me |
| 04:39.02 | Hirsute | I don't know.. Most of the sites I visit are a *lot* more than html. |
| 04:39.06 | End | that's cool..when you maximize the window it collapses the title bar even more |
| 04:39.19 | *** join/#wowuidev kaugummi (n=kaugummi@2002:5091:d96d:55f:20d:93ff:fe87:d832) |
| 04:40.14 | smcn | blech, restarting the browser didn't fix my error 2 problem |
| 04:40.22 | batrick | For chrome... i fail to see the advantage of using processes for each tab instead of threads. |
| 04:40.29 | batrick | can someone explain why they did that/ |
| 04:40.34 | End | memory fragmentation |
| 04:40.38 | smcn | http://www.google.com/googlebooks/chrome/ :) |
| 04:40.44 | batrick | im reading that |
| 04:40.45 | End | and if a tab fails |
| 04:40.51 | WobWork | I admit, the comic book is a good media to use |
| 04:40.53 | End | your browser doesn't fail |
| 04:40.56 | cog|away | batrick: continue :) |
| 04:41.36 | batrick | eh, that's a sorta shitty reason imo to use processes |
| 04:41.41 | WobWork | and the using of google to run simutaneous load testing is very clever |
| 04:41.50 | End | also |
| 04:41.57 | batrick | "our rendering engine may explode lol" |
| 04:42.07 | End | it lends itself better to multiprocessors |
| 04:42.09 | End | well |
| 04:42.12 | cog|away | not the rendering engine... |
| 04:42.13 | End | not just engine |
| 04:42.17 | End | plugins too |
| 04:42.17 | WobWork | I've wondered if they did hire thousands of monkeys |
| 04:42.22 | batrick | if your OS scheduler doesn't blow, that's not even true |
| 04:42.23 | ReAn | Tekkub, you around? |
| 04:42.24 | WobWork | and now I know |
| 04:42.24 | cog|away | plugins, bad javascript, etc |
| 04:42.36 | Tekkub | no |
| 04:42.49 | ReAn | heh, mind if i ask you a question in pm? |
| 04:43.02 | Tekkub | no |
| 04:49.38 | Shirik|zZz | batrick: Honestly, I don't see it either |
| 04:49.42 | Shirik|zZz | unless you provide some protection model |
| 04:49.50 | Tekkub | so now, I'm thinking I'll try ye olde HOSTS adblockign with Chrome... but I want a tiny program that serves up a 1-pixel transparent image instead of relying on timeouts |
| 04:49.55 | Shirik|zZz | really I could see them being separate processes, but maybe that's because I'm too used to QNX |
| 04:50.00 | Tekkub | anyone know of something to do that? |
| 04:51.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Osagasu (n=Dune@208-104-142-238.rhhe1.2wcm.comporium.net) |
| 04:52.36 | batrick | well that's cool, looks like they borrowed from Lua a lot for their GC |
| 04:52.51 | cog|away | that thought crossed my mind as well |
| 04:54.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Arrowmaster (n=Arrow@unaffiliated/arrowmaster) |
| 04:54.52 | Syzgyn | God I hate mother Shaz |
| 04:56.34 | batrick | lmfao, "incognito" window |
| 04:56.34 | batrick | that's awesome |
| 04:56.42 | smcn | yeah, i love the detective guy looking at you watching porn ;P |
| 04:57.21 | batrick | the browser looks promising. would have been cool to have addons though |
| 04:59.18 | Thunder_Child | it's still in beta |
| 04:59.22 | Thunder_Child | might happen |
| 04:59.43 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree) |
| 05:02.04 | Tekkub | muahahaha! adblock for Chrome! |
| 05:02.09 | Tekkub | HOSTS file: http://everythingisnt.com/hosts |
| 05:02.25 | Tekkub | transparent 1-pixel image server: http://www.accs-net.com/hosts/eDexter.html |
| 05:02.39 | NightHawkTheSane | Tekkub: thats more or less adblock for... everything., |
| 05:02.59 | Tekkub | well, yes |
| 05:03.04 | Tekkub | but it works well :) |
| 05:03.12 | NightHawkTheSane | indeed. :P |
| 05:03.14 | End | so, you can build it for linux and what not |
| 05:03.21 | End | at least, they give build instructions |
| 05:03.23 | NightHawkTheSane | why muss with addons when you can go right to the source :p |
| 05:03.55 | End | oh |
| 05:03.55 | NightHawkTheSane | also, where the hell is a flight master in sholazar? >< |
| 05:03.57 | End | waaa |
| 05:04.04 | End | Note: There is no working Chromium-based browser on Linux. Although many Chromium submodules build under Linux and a few unit tests pass, all that runs is a command-line "all tests pass" executable. |
| 05:04.26 | Corrodias | i can produce one of those! |
| 05:04.32 | End | lol |
| 05:04.34 | Corrodias | lua> "all tests pass" |
| 05:04.35 | lua_bot | Corrodias: all tests pass |
| 05:04.37 | cog|away | lua> "All Tests Pass" |
| 05:04.37 | lua_bot | cog|away: All Tests Pass |
| 05:04.38 | Corrodias | SUCCESS! |
| 05:07.09 | Tekkub | WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 05:07.14 | Tekkub | xkcd loves furries |
| 05:08.05 | End | :o |
| 05:08.38 | Thunder_Child | ~furry Tekkub |
| 05:08.56 | Tekkub | methinks this will work well... Chrome - ads == furry sex |
| 05:09.03 | Thunder_Child | ~furry |
| 05:09.24 | Tekkub | ~cockvore |
| 05:10.55 | Thunder_Child | lol @ elephant furry porn |
| 05:11.35 | WobWork | elephants are actually quite hairy |
| 05:11.56 | NightHawkTheSane | just like your mom. |
| 05:11.57 | NightHawkTheSane | ;) |
| 05:12.40 | WobWork | I dunno about yours, but -my- mother shaves =P |
| 05:15.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 05:15.25 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-177-40-63.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 05:20.04 | smcn | NightHawkTheSane: SUCCESS! http://wowuidev.pastey.net/95343 |
| 05:20.24 | NightHawkTheSane | nice :) |
| 05:20.59 | smcn | now to peek at irc logs to see how long that took me |
| 05:21.39 | smcn | 4 and a half hours, wewt |
| 05:21.47 | NightHawkTheSane | nice |
| 05:22.12 | Cide | it's perl |
| 05:22.15 | Cide | how is that nice at all |
| 05:23.02 | End | I'm going to have to agree with Cide here |
| 05:23.05 | smcn | now, can you explain to me why $_ == /.mp3$/ returns FALSE if it's a match? == is supposed to be EQUAL TO, am i wrong? |
| 05:23.23 | smcn | or maybe cide answered that already, "it's perl" |
| 05:23.26 | End | smcn: that doesn't even make sense |
| 05:23.30 | End | probably a typo |
| 05:23.40 | End | but it defaults on $_ anyways |
| 05:24.00 | End | it's like doing $_ == ($_ =~ /.mp3$/) |
| 05:24.01 | Cide | you probably want /\.mp3$/ |
| 05:24.02 | End | I think |
| 05:24.05 | End | that too |
| 05:24.05 | smcn | oh |
| 05:24.15 | NightHawkTheSane | smcn: matches default to $_, so just /.mp3$/ works fine, for other vars, you want $var =~ /.mp3$/ |
| 05:24.35 | NightHawkTheSane | that statement returns true if a match was found, false if not. |
| 05:24.55 | NightHawkTheSane | well, not quite. |
| 05:24.57 | smcn | oh i get it |
| 05:25.03 | NightHawkTheSane | it evaluates like that in a conditional block, though |
| 05:25.12 | End | just do /\.mp3$/ or whatever...for get the $_ == |
| 05:25.18 | End | s/for get/forget/ |
| 05:25.37 | smcn | yeah i think i remember reading that when i was first looking at a perl tut and forgot it by the time i got around to actually writing the conditional |
| 05:26.17 | NightHawkTheSane | and yeah, as noted, you really want /\.mp3$/ for clarity, as . has a special meaning inside a regex. |
| 05:26.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Kazie (n=k@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 05:27.04 | smcn | could i also change next if ($_ eq "." || $_ eq ".."); to next if ("." || ".."); ? |
| 05:27.11 | smcn | or is that only for regex |
| 05:27.23 | NightHawkTheSane | thats only for regex |
| 05:27.25 | smcn | k |
| 05:28.13 | End | yeah, you don't normally use == with a regex...the right operator is =~ (different from ~=) |
| 05:28.36 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, that drives me crazy when i switch between perl/lua. >< |
| 05:28.39 | smcn | lol |
| 05:29.00 | End | I probably haven't even looked at perl for a few years now |
| 05:29.04 | End | smcn: curse you! |
| 05:29.06 | smcn | yeah, i definitely would have been stressing for hours if i tried comparing a different var with a regex using == |
| 05:29.08 | Shirik|zZz | That looks extremely like perl |
| 05:29.15 | End | it is perl |
| 05:29.17 | End | gratz |
| 05:30.01 | Shirik|zZz | anyway, sleepy time! |
| 05:30.09 | End | night Shirik|zZz |
| 05:30.15 | Shirik|zZz | Also, friends don't let friends script perl |
| 05:30.17 | Shirik|zZz | that is all |
| 05:30.22 | End | ^ |
| 05:30.38 | NightHawkTheSane | as much as i like perl, i can't even disagree. :P |
| 05:30.45 | End | hehe |
| 05:30.50 | smcn | interesting, it actually did miss a file |
| 05:31.17 | smcn | but i know it didn't get any false negatives because i wrote a separate script to count up mp3s/m4ps :P |
| 05:31.34 | Thunder_Child | friends dont let friends listen to Shirik|zZz |
| 05:31.55 | End | ~lart Thunder_Child |
| 05:31.55 | purl | takes a big bite out of Thunder_Child's jugular vein |
| 05:32.14 | End | take that Thunder_Child's jugular vein! |
| 05:32.51 | Thunder_Child | ~lart End |
| 05:32.51 | purl | sends a legion of lawyers after End's head |
| 05:33.02 | End | noooes, not the lawyers |
| 05:33.12 | End | why couldn't you have sent locusts instead! |
| 05:33.35 | Thunder_Child | because lawers consume more |
| 05:33.39 | Thunder_Child | are bigger pests |
| 05:33.47 | Thunder_Child | are more of them |
| 05:33.51 | End | indeed! |
| 05:33.59 | Thunder_Child | and leave more of a mess behind |
| 05:34.41 | Thunder_Child | though to be fair, i have quite a few laywers in my family |
| 05:34.51 | Thunder_Child | lawyers* |
| 05:35.04 | End | ah hah! |
| 05:35.39 | Thunder_Child | prolly 15+ if you include extended family |
| 05:35.43 | End | wow |
| 05:35.56 | Thunder_Child | even more doctors |
| 05:35.57 | *** join/#wowuidev PProvost|work (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 05:36.42 | Thunder_Child | freaking jewish pairents and their "you can either be a doctor or a lawyer or your not a good son" |
| 05:37.55 | NightHawkTheSane | so are you a lawyer or a doctor, then? p |
| 05:38.08 | Corrodias | both. |
| 05:38.23 | Thunder_Child | we have some of thoes as well. but no, me i am a bum |
| 05:38.25 | End | I was gonna ask if you were jewish, but I thought that wouldn't have been a good thing to ask :P |
| 05:38.54 | Thunder_Child | pfft, i hardlt care |
| 05:38.54 | Corrodias | are you furry? |
| 05:39.03 | Wobin | he's jewish, isn't he? |
| 05:39.09 | End | yeah, I suppose that's true :P |
| 05:39.34 | Thunder_Child | furry like Tekkub, or furry like with chest hair like a rug? |
| 05:40.21 | Wobin | he asked if you were furry |
| 05:40.26 | Wobin | not if you were a furry =) |
| 05:40.37 | Thunder_Child | then no...except in face i guess |
| 05:40.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Pez (n=user@213-187-182-126.dd.nextgentel.com) |
| 05:40.45 | Thrae | Tekkub's not that furry himself, otherwise he'd lock himself in his room all day. |
| 05:41.05 | Cide | it's a Pez, with a nice name too! |
| 05:41.25 | NightHawkTheSane | woo, cold weather flying! |
| 05:41.34 | Thunder_Child | Corrodias, http://blizzcon2007.norganna.org/main.php/v/Face/2007-08-04+at+21-35-55.jpg.html however the next one will NOT be nude |
| 05:41.39 | End | Cide: why is Pez's name not nice sometimes? |
| 05:42.00 | Wobin | you know what's scary? |
| 05:42.10 | Wobin | You -look- like a "Thunder_child" |
| 05:42.12 | Corrodias | Thunder_Child: but... this one isn't nude either... |
| 05:42.13 | Cide | we were having a discussion about whether or not pipes were good or bad yesterday |
| 05:42.30 | Thunder_Child | Wobin, you are weird |
| 05:42.44 | Thunder_Child | Corrodias, i meant if that wasnt enough to tell you how furry i am |
| 05:42.55 | Cide | I said they aren't bad, but that "Pez" is nicer |
| 05:42.57 | Thrae | Cide: I, for one, wholely support indoor plumbing. |
| 05:43.03 | End | ahh |
| 05:43.14 | End | yeah, I agree, "Pez" is nicer |
| 05:43.23 | Cide | I, for one, welcome our new Pez overlord |
| 05:43.51 | Thunder_Child | we really need a vent/ts server for #wowuidev for amusment |
| 05:44.07 | batrick | that's an awesome id |
| 05:44.08 | batrick | ea |
| 05:44.12 | Wobin | I agree |
| 05:44.23 | batrick | Cairenn: ^ |
| 05:44.35 | batrick | there's cookies in it for you :) |
| 05:44.45 | Thunder_Child | great, now i will get in trouble for that idea |
| 05:44.54 | Keias | Imagine the slots needed |
| 05:44.54 | Cairenn | lol |
| 05:45.03 | batrick | imagine Cide's nerd rages on vent |
| 05:45.05 | Thunder_Child | though my war guild will need one so maybe i will pick one up early |
| 05:45.06 | End | yeah, we'd all be afk ;-p |
| 05:45.08 | Keias | lol |
| 05:45.25 | Cairenn | yeah, that's the problem, who is willing to pay for the number of user slots we'd need? |
| 05:45.28 | Cide | I never rage |
| 05:45.34 | Cide | I calmy put people in place |
| 05:45.34 | Thunder_Child | pitch in maybe |
| 05:45.37 | Cide | calmly* |
| 05:45.43 | Thunder_Child | i could go for ~$10 a month |
| 05:45.48 | NightHawkTheSane | i wonder how much that would cost total.. |
| 05:45.49 | End | vent servers are pretty cheap |
| 05:46.10 | Cairenn | I know, I have a couple, but not for 200+ people |
| 05:46.16 | Thunder_Child | 100 user for only $30 |
| 05:46.25 | End | would we really have 200 people? |
| 05:46.27 | batrick | eh, should limit it to 100 |
| 05:46.32 | End | I would only pop in here and there |
| 05:46.36 | batrick | until there's sufficient interest :P |
| 05:46.40 | Cairenn | think about it, there's 144 in channel right now .... |
| 05:46.50 | Thunder_Child | some of them never talk though |
| 05:46.54 | NightHawkTheSane | well, there's 144, but how many ever actually talk |
| 05:47.01 | End | well, it's easier to be in irc and afk |
| 05:47.02 | NightHawkTheSane | or.. even realize they're here >.> |
| 05:47.04 | batrick | or would idle in vent for thgat matter |
| 05:47.11 | End | I've gone months without saying anything in this channel >_> |
| 05:47.22 | Thunder_Child | 200 users for $480 a year |
| 05:47.29 | batrick | doesn't vent have an afk feature to kick someone after some time? |
| 05:47.32 | Thunder_Child | $40 a month |
| 05:47.33 | End | yeah |
| 05:47.34 | batrick | that would keep it down imo |
| 05:47.35 | End | it does |
| 05:47.45 | Thunder_Child | $40 a month isnt bad at all |
| 05:48.32 | Cairenn | I'll look into it :) |
| 05:48.34 | Corrodias | for what, protection from the mob? |
| 05:48.38 | Cairenn | if you guys really want one |
| 05:48.41 | Thunder_Child | for a vent server dummy |
| 05:49.40 | Wobin | Corrodias: You have a cheap mob |
| 05:49.52 | Cide | you realize |
| 05:49.54 | Thunder_Child | Cairenn, really? why? |
| 05:50.04 | Cairenn | why what? |
| 05:50.05 | Cide | probably less than 1/5 would join it |
| 05:50.09 | Cide | at all |
| 05:50.18 | Cairenn | as I said ... *if* you guys really want one :p |
| 05:50.19 | Thunder_Child | Cairenn, because it's rather outside of the scope |
| 05:50.23 | Thunder_Child | of wowi |
| 05:50.23 | End | I dunno |
| 05:50.26 | Cide | and since you're dealing with concurrent users, you're probably looking at <1/10 at any given time |
| 05:50.27 | End | I think it'd be neat |
| 05:50.38 | End | but I dunno if it'd be worth it |
| 05:50.42 | Thunder_Child | it would really be helpful for beta and the wowi guilds |
| 05:50.52 | Thunder_Child | for runs and whatnot |
| 05:51.00 | End | the wowi guilds? like on draka? |
| 05:51.10 | Cairenn | Thunder_Child: how is it any less in the scope of wowi than this is? |
| 05:51.12 | Thunder_Child | beta |
| 05:51.13 | ccox | do we have wowi beta guilds? |
| 05:51.14 | End | people log onto there? |
| 05:51.14 | End | oh |
| 05:51.15 | End | beta |
| 05:51.18 | Wobin | there are usually more than 3 people on simultaneously on those guilds? |
| 05:51.30 | End | ccox: yeah, on the pve servers |
| 05:51.32 | Cairenn | they aren't wowi guilds guys, they are ui dev guilds |
| 05:51.44 | End | well, yeah, I suppose that's true |
| 05:52.08 | Thunder_Child | Cairenn, i guess because this is free |
| 05:52.28 | ccox | dev guilds like http://www.wowarmory.com/guild-info.xml?r=Balnazzar&n=Enchant+Tricks&p=1 ??? |
| 05:53.34 | End | http://www.wowarmory.com/guild-info.xml?r=Draka&n=LoadOnDemand&p=1 |
| 05:53.38 | End | lol, it only shows 3 people |
| 05:53.52 | ccox | (I got tired of annoying other guilds with my logins/logouts while debugging, so made my own guild) |
| 05:53.55 | End | Iriel logged on 17 days ago |
| 05:53.56 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17282 |
| 05:54.08 | Cairenn | look at the bottom of that (initial) post |
| 05:54.18 | End | Cairenn logged on ...9 months ago |
| 05:54.25 | End | ZOMG! |
| 05:54.30 | End | Lua 5.1 in the expansion! |
| 05:54.34 | End | Get ready for it! |
| 05:55.36 | Thunder_Child | well not quite author guild since we have others joining |
| 05:55.38 | Wobin | hehe Secure Templars =P |
| 05:55.49 | Thunder_Child | speaking of which, when do you go on Cairenn? |
| 05:55.51 | ccox | now I just need to find someone from WTB API |
| 05:55.51 | torokokill | aww pve servers? |
| 05:55.54 | torokokill | boring |
| 05:56.16 | Tekkub | oh I think I need clean pants |
| 05:56.18 | NightHawkTheSane | torokokill: pvp tends to disrupt coding. :p |
| 05:56.26 | ccox | oh, hang on, I have an ally on northrend as well |
| 05:56.26 | torokokill | makes it all the more fun! |
| 05:56.28 | NightHawkTheSane | ccox: i'm online now if you need an invite or something |
| 05:56.30 | Tekkub | Chrome lets you drag/drop a file into a file select field |
| 05:56.41 | NightHawkTheSane | (in <wtb api pst> that is) |
| 05:56.48 | torokokill | nothing like working on a ui and getting jumped in pvp |
| 05:56.49 | Cairenn | torokokill: what NightHawkTheSane said, along with allowing people to have chars on both sides, for testing purposes |
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| 05:56.57 | Cairenn | race specific stuff |
| 05:57.01 | Cairenn | etc |
| 05:57.01 | ccox | NightHAwk - logging in now |
| 05:57.04 | End | everyone can copy to pve as well |
| 05:57.04 | torokokill | nothing like working on a ui and getting jumped in pvp, and having constant UI errors pop up during the fight |
| 05:57.12 | End | wish I copied my 'lock to pve now that I think about it :P |
| 05:57.19 | NightHawkTheSane | ccox: send a msg to 'keribdis', thats me. |
| 05:57.30 | End | ah well |
| 05:57.32 | torokokill | it's happened to me i don't know how many times |
| 05:58.36 | torokokill | actually, i think i got jumped last night on the beta while working on something |
| 05:59.45 | ccox | ok, got the horde side covered |
| 06:02.55 | ccox | anyone on from Secure Templars? |
| 06:03.40 | End | I can get on |
| 06:03.58 | Wobin | hm, I used to code in pvp |
| 06:04.02 | Wobin | I'd just take a mine |
| 06:04.05 | Wobin | then stealth =P |
| 06:04.21 | End | most of my code happens in corners of capital cities |
| 06:04.22 | ccox | I make toons on both PvE and PvP - more AH exposure |
| 06:04.37 | ccox | AND I can copy the same toon to both, and have a nice stash of gold and materials |
| 06:05.06 | ccox | most of my code happens next to a mailbox or auctioneer :-) |
| 06:05.17 | End | ccox: still need an invite? |
| 06:05.24 | ccox | End - yes |
| 06:05.30 | End | send a tell to...End |
| 06:05.31 | End | :D |
| 06:05.46 | End | enchante? |
| 06:05.54 | End | that must be you |
| 06:06.00 | End | oopps |
| 06:06.47 | End | wow |
| 06:06.48 | Wobin | we need afk messages |
| 06:06.49 | End | your name sucks |
| 06:06.55 | Wobin | like "afk coding' |
| 06:06.57 | ccox | to type, yes |
| 06:07.19 | ccox | hang on, I'll go to SW and meet you |
| 06:07.28 | End | that would help |
| 06:07.57 | End | or |
| 06:08.01 | End | I'll just use the API |
| 06:08.05 | ccox | that works too |
| 06:08.27 | End | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:09.16 | End | someone's fast |
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| 06:09.33 | End | oh, you can probably edit your own note |
| 06:11.13 | Thunder_Child | *sigh* i have now remove the recurring payment now twice and it keeps coming back (and no recurring jokes/puns) |
| 06:11.14 | ccox | End - yep, already done |
| 06:11.18 | Thunder_Child | removed* |
| 06:11.25 | ccox | thanks ENd and Nighthawk! |
| 06:11.35 | NightHawkTheSane | np :) |
| 06:11.41 | End | :) |
| 06:11.51 | steev | NOM NOM NOM |
| 06:11.52 | Wobin | what was the name? |
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| 06:13.55 | steev | project lore cracks me up |
| 06:14.04 | *** join/#wowuidev WobWork (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 06:14.15 | steev | i'd love to fraps some of our runs since... we don't use cc |
| 06:14.28 | WobWork | bah |
| 06:14.30 | WobWork | what was the name? |
| 06:15.31 | WobWork | steev: CC is for people without enough dps =) |
| 06:16.33 | steev | we go in with prot pally, enh shaman, ret pally, fury warrior and drood healer or pally healer |
| 06:17.03 | WobWork | well you've got cc right there with your pallies =P |
| 06:17.05 | steev | or we throw in a feral druid for the ret and i go on my enh shaman |
| 06:17.09 | steev | uh |
| 06:17.16 | steev | hammer of justice is not cc :-P |
| 06:17.28 | WobWork | well s/he controls the crowd, right? |
| 06:17.36 | steev | no |
| 06:17.39 | steev | i rarely use it |
| 06:17.39 | End | even for a few seconds helps |
| 06:17.51 | End | depends on what you are fighting though |
| 06:17.58 | WobWork | I'm going for a more general definition of crowd control =P |
| 06:17.59 | steev | we just let everything pound on the tank and dps it down |
| 06:18.35 | End | it could be as little as you hammer of justice the first mob to die while the tank worries about the others |
| 06:18.50 | steev | well if you wanna do it like that... then you could say taunting is cc |
| 06:19.01 | WobWork | it''s true |
| 06:19.19 | WobWork | more chance of a resist than the usual pally aoe tanking technique though |
| 06:19.23 | End | well, it's all about keeping the mobs under control ;-p |
| 06:19.29 | steev | since 3 pallys and a fury warrior can all taunt |
| 06:19.32 | End | (and off the healer especially!) |
| 06:19.55 | WobWork | hell, as a boomkin, I aggro CC to get mobs off the healer =P |
| 06:20.04 | End | you furried fatty |
| 06:20.09 | End | er |
| 06:20.11 | End | feathered fatty |
| 06:20.41 | steev | why would the mob be on the healer if its cc'd |
| 06:20.53 | steev | nub stop breaking cc |
| 06:21.01 | WobWork | what cc? |
| 06:21.06 | WobWork | you don't use cc =P |
| 06:21.10 | steev | 01:19 < WobWork> hell, as a boomkin, I aggro CC to get mobs off the healer =P |
| 06:21.20 | WobWork | let me be a bit more specific |
| 06:21.22 | End | aggro CC is "one word" |
| 06:21.24 | WobWork | I 'aggro CC' |
| 06:21.34 | End | er, I misplaced my quotes |
| 06:21.37 | WobWork | hehe |
| 06:21.41 | End | whatever :P |
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| 06:21.51 | steev | if your tank is any good it wouldn't be on the healer |
| 06:21.55 | WobWork | don't worry End, it came out more patronising, this way =) |
| 06:21.59 | End | lol |
| 06:22.12 | WobWork | steev: well yes. |
| 06:22.19 | End | well |
| 06:22.26 | End | prot pally doesn't have to worry about that at all ;-p |
| 06:22.28 | WobWork | but there is always chances that something goes wrong |
| 06:22.51 | WobWork | sudden patrol/add |
| 06:22.55 | End | it's a harder time for warriors and the like to handle multimob pulls though |
| 06:22.59 | WobWork | unexpected spawn |
| 06:23.02 | WobWork | yeah |
| 06:23.16 | End | I'd be baffled if a prot tank -couldn't- handle them all :P |
| 06:23.18 | End | er |
| 06:23.19 | WobWork | I <3 pallytanks |
| 06:23.22 | End | prot pally I mean |
| 06:23.43 | End | we don't have a prot pally currently...we also haven't done hyjal recently |
| 06:23.49 | End | coincidence? I think not! |
| 06:24.03 | WobWork | that''s mostly what hyjal is =P |
| 06:24.07 | steev | i actually don't mind speccing prot |
| 06:24.14 | End | well, we barely have paladins |
| 06:24.26 | steev | as long as we are doing something i want to do |
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| 06:36.05 | WobWork | I tried so hard to level a pally |
| 06:36.11 | WobWork | but always petered out around level 12 |
| 06:36.14 | End | I didn't try very hard |
| 06:36.21 | End | hey, that's the level I get to too! |
| 06:36.31 | WobWork | hehe |
| 06:36.33 | End | I have two paladins around level 10-12 |
| 06:36.42 | End | they just..never get anywhere |
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| 06:36.53 | WobWork | Granted, I did the same with my druid until I made myself level him |
| 06:37.02 | WobWork | my druid was stuck around level 20 for ages |
| 06:37.12 | WobWork | but I decided to make a boomkin |
| 06:37.27 | WobWork | thankfully, the increased levelling speed had been put in by then |
| 06:37.41 | End | ah, nice |
| 06:38.09 | WobWork | paladins always reminded me somewhat of a turtle |
| 06:38.16 | WobWork | You could get stuff done... |
| 06:38.21 | WobWork | it'd just take ages =P |
| 06:39.01 | WobWork | maybe I'll give it another try once I get Furphy to 70 |
| 06:40.28 | NightHawkTheSane | the new blessing of sanctuary makes prot grinding soooo much nicer.. |
| 06:40.52 | WobWork | how's it work? |
| 06:41.56 | NightHawkTheSane | Reduces damage taken by 3%, and every block/dodge/parry cause you to gain 10 rage, 20 rp, or 2% mana. |
| 06:42.26 | NightHawkTheSane | you pull >=3 mobs, and you have to TRY and run out of mana. |
| 06:42.44 | WobWork | interesting |
| 06:43.42 | WobWork | at what level does aoe grinding become viable for pallies? |
| 06:44.06 | NightHawkTheSane | ~35-40ish |
| 06:44.18 | NightHawkTheSane | basically, once you get Seal of Light & Sanctuary. |
| 06:45.08 | Syzgyn | And reckoning :P |
| 06:45.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Srosh (n=Srosh@d019152.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 06:46.15 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, and holy shield |
| 06:47.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 06:49.27 | NightHawkTheSane | also, 2k flash heals in my tank gear are pretty damn sexy |
| 06:49.31 | *** join/#wowuidev WobWork (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 06:49.34 | NightHawkTheSane | er, 2k flash heal crits* |
| 06:50.28 | WobWork | damn, missed most of that convo =P |
| 06:51.06 | NightHawkTheSane | what'd you see last? |
| 06:51.48 | WobWork | <Syzgyn> And reckoning :P |
| 06:51.58 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, you didn't miss much. ;) |
| 06:52.03 | NightHawkTheSane | just me saying "yeah, and holy shield" |
| 06:53.12 | WobWork | is ret worth it? |
| 06:54.00 | NightHawkTheSane | er.. for what? |
| 06:54.03 | NightHawkTheSane | leveling? sure |
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| 06:55.35 | Mr_Rabies2 | <+ckknight> I went to Dragon*Con |
| 06:55.44 | Mr_Rabies2 | he isn't in here, darn |
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| 07:51.03 | Corrodias | i swear, PC gaming is going to drive me insane. hardware, drivers, operating systems, and games all interacting in different and mysterious ways that make figuring out problems damn-near-impossible at times |
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| 07:55.48 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v MoonWolf] by ChanServ |
| 07:56.06 | Syzgyn | Corrodias: It's a harsh mistress, but she knows you'll come back to her high-resolution goodness |
| 08:02.35 | zenzelezz | "I asked on my warrior today for a Vial of KT as i forgot to loot it yesterday and was about to hand in the quest, so i ticketed a GM asking for a new one. Yet they said i couldn't be given a new one as you can get it again. I agree for maybe easier leveling up quests this may be true and its really easy. Yet KT isn't really that easy, is he? Ill request again here, could you please send my 70 warrior a vial of KT. " |
| 08:02.40 | zenzelezz | >> "Sadly, you were not present in the raid at the time Kael'Thas Sunstrider was killed, you're neither seen having engaged Kael'Thas or threatened him in anyway, and you were not in the Raid ID at the time of the boss kill, and as such, you're in no way eligible for the loot you wish to claim. The boss was killed at 21:23:32 and you left Tempest Keep at 20:32:12 and logged out for the night at 20:33:20 after having repaired. Rem |
| 08:02.40 | zenzelezz | ember, we can see everything that happens and attempts to defraud the Game Master team can go along with heavy punishments. " |
| 08:02.48 | zenzelezz | why do people keep trying to trick the GMs? |
| 08:04.12 | cladhaire | cause they're stupid |
| 08:09.14 | Cairenn | lol |
| 08:09.37 | starlon | haha |
| 08:09.41 | starlon | pwnd |
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| 08:31.26 | torokokill | <zenzelezz> why do people keep trying to trick the GMs? |
| 08:31.33 | torokokill | back around 2.0 time |
| 08:31.39 | torokokill | when people's banks were screwing up |
| 08:32.04 | torokokill | a warlock on mannoroth petitioned a gm for a frame of atiesh that went missing in his bank, when he had never actually looted a splinter before |
| 08:32.10 | torokokill | and the gm gave him the frame |
| 08:32.28 | zenzelezz | :-o |
| 08:33.06 | torokokill | then he got banned during tbc for exploiting something or other |
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| 08:49.08 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 08:53.52 | ReAn | is there a way to disable comments on your mods in order to force people to use Report Bug / Feature Request ? |
| 08:58.28 | Cairenn | gimme link, I'll disable for you |
| 08:58.45 | Kalroth | Poor comments :( |
| 08:58.53 | ReAn | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info10133-RuneWatch.html |
| 08:59.04 | ReAn | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info10768-HitsBroker.html |
| 08:59.14 | ReAn | Please and thankyou. |
| 08:59.54 | Cairenn | *nod* |
| 09:01.02 | Cairenn | comments disabled |
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| 09:11.41 | Ycarene | What kind of development would blizzard have to entail to give each addon its own memory space? |
| 09:12.16 | Cairenn | A lot more than they'd be willing to do, I'd think |
| 09:12.37 | Cairenn | major allocation of resources for something they don't actually "support" |
| 09:12.46 | ReAn | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=10133 <--- new sexy format :D |
| 09:12.55 | Cairenn | (resources == manhours) |
| 09:16.00 | Cairenn | that's just my opinion though, I've no idea if they'd actually be willing to do it, and what all it would entail to be able to do it |
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| 09:43.39 | ReAn | Cairenn, do more popular addon authors get much response from the "Report Bugs" and "Feature Request" buttons on mods? or do they just get people posting in thier comments too? |
| 09:44.09 | Cairenn | depends, in part, on how responsive the author is |
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| 09:44.21 | zenzelezz | I'd think it's more up to the users than the authors |
| 09:44.32 | ReAn | True |
| 09:44.33 | Cairenn | if it looks like you actually use your portal then they are more likely to use it |
| 09:45.20 | ReAn | Well, i just went through the trouble of typing out all this: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info10133-RuneWatch.html |
| 09:45.25 | ReAn | so hopefully they'll use it |
| 09:46.25 | haste | I've never understood the reason to mention what libraries you use |
| 09:46.46 | ReAn | My note that it's an Ace3 mod? |
| 09:47.05 | haste | yes |
| 09:47.36 | Cairenn | ReAn: instead of PMs, you might want to consider a thread in the released interfaces forum |
| 09:47.39 | ReAn | i know a bunch of people (at least 1/2 my guild) that would use a lesser mod over a better mod if it used Ace2/3 because of the code-reuse |
| 09:47.51 | ReAn | Cairenn, thx for the tip |
| 09:48.09 | haste | yes, but that's an incorrect assumption in many cases |
| 09:48.14 | ReAn | The reason i mentioned it was an Ace mod was to attract people that flock to ace cuz of the memory saving |
| 09:48.24 | haste | and adding text like that will just continue to fuel the flame |
| 09:48.30 | ReAn | flame? |
| 09:48.54 | haste | as in a metaphor |
| 09:49.13 | haste | the users shouldn't really care about libs at all |
| 09:49.28 | haste | and most of the AceX over Y mod is because of the updater again |
| 09:50.06 | ReAn | all i really wanted people to know is that my mod is ace, period. Which means it's reusing code of they have any other ace mods |
| 09:50.19 | ReAn | im not trying to start any particular flame war between competing standards |
| 09:50.32 | ReAn | i just want people to be informed, since i dont use the WoWAce Repo |
| 09:50.54 | haste | the idea back in the days was that the user shouldn't know however |
| 09:51.05 | haste | but that failed miserably |
| 09:51.55 | Kalroth | Ace got popular with endusers because of the updater, not because of the libraries |
| 09:52.20 | Ycarene | I was just thinking about what google was doing with their webbrowser, making each tab a process. I think the UI system would work better if one addon couldn't suspend the entire application. |
| 09:53.07 | ReAn | Ycarene: do you know anything about thread saftey? |
| 09:54.39 | Ycarene | You mean making a function executable by more than one thread without them interfering with each other? |
| 09:55.05 | ReAn | kinda |
| 09:55.36 | ReAn | what you were talking about is splitting mods onto thier own threads so that if one goes into infinate loop the others run along seperately w/o being stopped |
| 09:55.38 | ReAn | right? |
| 09:55.52 | Ycarene | Yes |
| 09:56.49 | Ycarene | It would seem though, that even without giving each mod its own process, that mod programmers should be careful to make their mods thread safe. |
| 09:57.06 | ReAn | K, well the issue with thread saftey making each mod it's own thread would be hugely complex |
| 09:57.21 | ReAn | especially since you have to expose the Blizzard UI and other mods to each individual mod |
| 09:57.30 | ReAn | and trust me |
| 09:57.42 | ReAn | you wont want to put the task of maintaining thread saftey to modders |
| 09:57.47 | ReAn | that'd only be bad bad bad |
| 09:57.57 | doow | ReAn: you're scaring me |
| 09:58.04 | doow | talk about something nice |
| 09:58.06 | Ycarene | All you really need to do is expose the blizzard UI and any (optional) dependancies. |
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| 09:59.04 | zenzelezz | thread coordination/communication is not a simple task |
| 09:59.34 | Ycarene | ReAn - Why not? If a mod developer is doing thats that makes their API no-reentrant then there's likely going to be lots of other nice bugs in the mod as well. |
| 10:00.08 | ReAn | Ycarene: Even talking to another mod, much less calling a single function bears an entire new paradigm when you deal with thread saftey |
| 10:00.41 | Ycarene | it can't be much more drastic than when 2.0 went in with the whole security template issues. |
| 10:00.49 | ReAn | When you have possibly 2-3 different threads changing data in another thread (let's use thread x for an example), then thread x has to set up a FIFO queue to maintain changes |
| 10:00.50 | zenzelezz | race conditions |
| 10:01.09 | ReAn | what happens if you read a value from the ui, then someone changes it before you change your updated version |
| 10:01.25 | ReAn | you'd need to implement locks and event queues |
| 10:01.31 | Ycarene | Doesn't that already happen though? |
| 10:01.31 | ReAn | it'd get extremely hairy |
| 10:01.38 | ReAn | not really |
| 10:01.51 | ReAn | the lock comes in the form of essentially a linear code execution path |
| 10:02.09 | Ycarene | So the mods are executed end to end then? |
| 10:02.14 | ReAn | foreach(mod running) { mods[currentMod].OnUpdate(...) } for every frame |
| 10:02.17 | ReAn | essentially |
| 10:02.21 | ReAn | the rest is event driven |
| 10:02.42 | Ycarene | Sounds like bad design to begin with... |
| 10:02.58 | ReAn | Ycarene: it's not really bad design |
| 10:03.15 | ReAn | but balancing "trying to do everything" with "K.I.S.S." |
| 10:03.24 | ReAn | the cost-benefit ratio is low |
| 10:03.37 | ReAn | so it was implemented the way it is now |
| 10:04.17 | ReAn | additionally |
| 10:04.29 | ReAn | different threading arcitectures have various limits on the # of threads you can have |
| 10:04.36 | ReAn | you'd have to implement thread pooling as well |
| 10:04.54 | ReAn | also |
| 10:05.03 | ReAn | if you seperate your mods from the rendering process |
| 10:05.10 | ReAn | you'd get frame tear |
| 10:05.13 | ReAn | well |
| 10:05.18 | ReAn | the mod-version of frame tear |
| 10:05.29 | ReAn | i.e. the frame is rendered before a mod is done updating it's visual status |
| 10:07.30 | ReAn | don't get me wrong, it's not a bad idea, in fact it's something I like, but the complexity it adds to the system isn't worth the benefit you get from it |
| 10:07.47 | ReAn | just have less stupid mod writers making mods that eat too much CPU time |
| 10:08.00 | Ycarene | Ok, I suppose there'd be some challenges, if it had been designed that way from the beginning, I think the game would be a hell of a lot more stable when mods are loaded. |
| 10:08.32 | ReAn | actually, considdering the level of uncompiled component in wow, it does rather well |
| 10:08.44 | ReAn | what id kill for is compiled lua |
| 10:08.45 | ReAn | omg |
| 10:09.15 | Ycarene | That was my other question, what if wow compiled its addons every time it detected new/changed addons. |
| 10:09.16 | wereHamster | what do you need it for? |
| 10:09.24 | Ycarene | ? |
| 10:09.39 | ReAn | i recall this issue being discussed in the ui forums once |
| 10:09.47 | ReAn | slouken had a response but i dont remember it |
| 10:10.10 | ReAn | i suppose the problem with compiled addons is partially broken addons wouldn't load at all |
| 10:10.25 | ReAn | i.e. if one feature has a typo, a mod currently runs perfect until you utalize that feature |
| 10:10.40 | ReAn | i suppose it it was compiled the lua error would be exposed right away and the mod wouldn't load |
| 10:10.50 | ReAn | it's ok for mod devs cuz they just fix it |
| 10:11.01 | ReAn | but it would mean most mods would break every time a patch came out |
| 10:11.16 | ReAn | break that they'd be completely unusable by the end users |
| 10:11.34 | Ycarene | ReAn - Compiling would probably get caught up on a typo and the addon wouldn't even start to begin with because compilation would fail. You could program it though, to fall back to interpretation if it fails to compile, or generates a run-time error. |
| 10:11.54 | ReAn | true |
| 10:12.03 | ReAn | but again, i belive slouken said something on this |
| 10:13.06 | ReAn | actually |
| 10:13.16 | ReAn | on further inspection, it's compiled on run into bytecode |
| 10:13.25 | ReAn | as of 2.0 i think |
| 10:13.28 | ReAn | hrm >_> |
| 10:13.52 | ReAn | regardless |
| 10:13.53 | Ycarene | ReAn - I had seen something like that, but I meant to compile the mod into native machine code. |
| 10:13.58 | ReAn | i was talking about pre-compliation |
| 10:14.06 | ReAn | you can't do that |
| 10:14.15 | ReAn | lua dosen't compile into machine code |
| 10:14.34 | ReAn | lua is a scripting language, not a programming language really |
| 10:14.41 | Ycarene | Why couldn't you write a compiler that could though? |
| 10:14.42 | ReAn | byte code is prolly the best you can get with it |
| 10:14.48 | ReAn | that would be stupid |
| 10:15.27 | ReAn | and dangerous |
| 10:15.37 | ReAn | you wouldn't want mods to have machine-level access |
| 10:15.51 | ReAn | with lua, you define the runtime environment anyway |
| 10:15.57 | ReAn | as well as the API |
| 10:15.59 | ReAn | not to mention |
| 10:16.06 | ReAn | you lose all GC ability with machine code |
| 10:16.07 | Ycarene | You can still jail machine level code. |
| 10:16.25 | wereHamster | Ycarene: don't argue, it's a stupid idea |
| 10:16.27 | Ycarene | Gc? |
| 10:16.35 | wereHamster | garbage collection |
| 10:16.38 | ReAn | the GC and language features flourish because of the runtime environment |
| 10:16.47 | Ycarene | Oh, right. |
| 10:16.57 | ReAn | trust me Ycarene, you dont wanna do reference / memory managment with a ui mod |
| 10:16.59 | ReAn | that's overkill |
| 10:17.19 | ReAn | most people barely remember to delete thier memory in c/c++ |
| 10:17.33 | ReAn | id hate to see the wow modding community program ui mods in c++ |
| 10:17.37 | ReAn | lol |
| 10:17.41 | ReAn | it'd be a disaster |
| 10:18.15 | Ycarene | Hmm |
| 10:18.44 | ReAn | but like someone hours ago said |
| 10:19.02 | ReAn | blizzard dosen't really have any reason to put that much work into a feature they don't officially support |
| 10:19.14 | ReAn | not to mention it'd make the making of ui mods a tougher, more daunting task |
| 10:19.17 | ReAn | and nobody would do it |
| 10:19.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (i=Wobin@218-215-62-182.people.net.au) |
| 10:20.21 | Ycarene | Yeah, I looked at the man page for luac and even that only compiles to byte code. |
| 10:20.40 | ReAn | well that i coulda told you |
| 10:20.45 | Ycarene | heh |
| 10:21.04 | wereHamster | all lua code is first compiled into bytecode before it's run. Lua isn't an interpreted language |
| 10:21.07 | Ycarene | I'm sorry about this guys, I guess I'm not doing enough research before putting out suggestions. |
| 10:22.52 | Ycarene | I thought bytecode was still interpreted, like the microsoft basic of the old commodores. (It essentially stored its commands as tokens instead of the full text) |
| 10:23.09 | ReAn | well essentially the bytecode is interpeted |
| 10:23.13 | ReAn | but lua is not |
| 10:23.34 | ReAn | but bytecode is optimized |
| 10:23.47 | ReAn | when we talk about interpreted languages tho, it's typically compiled on demand |
| 10:24.21 | wereHamster | bytecode is like a higher-level assembler. Java also compiles into bytecode and you don't say that java is an interpreted language |
| 10:24.28 | ReAn | so at the environment level, each bytecode instruction is "interpreted" or compiled into it's machine-code equivalent, on demand, but the lua is turned into bytecode earlier |
| 10:25.21 | Ycarene | Heh, http://blog.outofhanwell.com/2008/08/16/khoros-a-lua-operating-system/ an os written in LUA |
| 10:25.25 | krka | Ycarene: Lua is not an acronym. |
| 10:26.28 | Ycarene | sorry |
| 10:26.54 | *** join/#wowuidev [SW]Dodge (n=Miranda@p5B00AC40.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:27.08 | [SW]Dodge | hi there :) |
| 10:27.12 | ReAn | dont worry about this Ycarene, just look at is as you've learned something :D |
| 10:28.03 | Kalroth | krka drinks KahLUA |
| 10:28.30 | Cairenn | rofl |
| 10:31.04 | krka | what's so funny? |
| 10:31.23 | Cairenn | (6:27:54 AM) Kalroth: krka drinks KahLUA |
| 10:31.33 | Kalroth | krka ignores me :( |
| 10:31.45 | Kalroth | since he's a hateful swede |
| 10:32.42 | Kalroth | I guess sharing the nudies he sent me was a bad idea |
| 10:41.30 | *** join/#wowuidev [SW]Dodge (n=Miranda@p5B00AC40.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:42.46 | krka | still, whats so funny about it cairenn? |
| 10:44.20 | Cairenn | it just amused me the way Kalroth made a play on words about your "LUA" bot |
| 10:44.21 | Cairenn | (6:25:11 AM) Ycarene: Heh, http://blog.outofhanwell.com/2008/08/16/khoros-a-lua-operating-system/ an os written in LUA |
| 10:44.21 | Cairenn | (6:25:15 AM) krka: Ycarene: Lua is not an acronym. |
| 10:44.27 | krka | Cairenn: Lua is actually a portuguese word and it means "moon" |
| 10:44.32 | Cairenn | (6:27:54 AM) Kalroth: krka drinks KahLUA |
| 10:44.38 | Cairenn | see? funny |
| 10:44.58 | Kalroth | Cairenn: You're trying to explain funny to krka? Good luck with that! |
| 10:59.15 | wereHamster | ge, don't do that. It's not healthy! |
| 11:02.43 | *** join/#wowuidev dabujo (i=xx@p4FDB14AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:03.23 | Lyn | :o |
| 11:03.47 | Sargeras | lets cuddle |
| 11:04.25 | Cairenn | what are you doing up so late? |
| 11:05.13 | Lyn | http://kotaku.com/5044692/oh-hollywood-what-did-you-do-to-dragonball omfg |
| 11:05.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|Away (n=nchatzil@d64-180-72-54.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 11:07.43 | Sargeras | I crashed immediately after the raid |
| 11:07.46 | Sargeras | and got up at 3am |
| 11:07.50 | *** join/#wowuidev copystring (n=copystri@p548A10C4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:07.53 | Sargeras | so I'm up till i gotta go to work |
| 11:08.02 | Cairenn | ah |
| 11:08.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Tiven_ (n=Tifa@athedsl-80023.home.otenet.gr) |
| 11:18.02 | [SW]Dodge | Lyn: omg! |
| 11:18.23 | Lyn | yep |
| 11:18.33 | Lyn | only good thing: chow yun fat as muten roshi :x |
| 11:18.48 | *** join/#wowuidev kagaro (n=kagaro@cpe-065-190-128-061.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 11:19.01 | [SW]Dodge | Lyn: but i bet if the wow movie is made by hollywood it would be same shit as this :S the one and only way to make a wow movie is doing it like blizzards cinematic trailers :D |
| 11:19.12 | Lyn | lol |
| 11:19.34 | [SW]Dodge | or let uwe boll make the movie! xD |
| 11:20.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Sixen (n=Sixen@12-210-157-250.client.mchsi.com) |
| 11:20.53 | zenzelezz | that guy should be banned from making movies |
| 11:20.55 | zenzelezz | and speaking in public |
| 11:24.06 | [SW]Dodge | zenzelezz: ^^ |
| 11:24.19 | [SW]Dodge | well i think postal was OK |
| 11:24.27 | [SW]Dodge | the other movies are crap :D |
| 11:25.57 | *** join/#wowuidev leethal (n=leethal@88.128.82.16) |
| 11:29.41 | *** join/#wowuidev bleetah (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 11:36.13 | *** part/#wowuidev leethal (n=leethal@88.128.82.16) |
| 11:43.28 | *** join/#wowuidev cbreak (n=cbreak@80-219-4-146.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:52.45 | *** join/#wowuidev ag` (n=ag`@0x535bbf09.bynxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 11:56.42 | zenzelezz | I wonder why I haven't aliased "exut" and "exot" to "exit" yet... I seem to always type one of those two |
| 11:56.49 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (n=Wobin@124-171-47-220.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 11:57.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Bouvi (n=Bouvi@72.243.111.178) |
| 11:58.07 | Bouvi | Sorry for all the crap Cairenn, you guys did not deserve that junk. |
| 11:58.18 | Cairenn | thanks Bouvi :) |
| 11:58.42 | Bouvi | I laughed when I saw the too many to list comment lol. |
| 11:58.44 | Cairenn | was only a couple people whining |
| 11:58.47 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 11:58.52 | Cairenn | did you get my PM? |
| 11:59.03 | Bouvi | One person can ruin it all thou. Yes I did and already have my pet set thanks. |
| 11:59.06 | Cairenn | (about your comments, not the one with the codes) |
| 12:00.04 | Cairenn | I know why you put what you did, but I can just see how some people will get pissy about it |
| 12:00.13 | Cairenn | can't win for losing, with some of them |
| 12:01.37 | Bouvi | What comment :) |
| 12:01.50 | Cairenn | ;) |
| 12:02.30 | Bouvi | No matter what you do there will always be trouble. |
| 12:02.45 | Sargeras | Cairenn is just a troublemaker |
| 12:02.45 | Sargeras | rawr |
| 12:02.46 | Sargeras | =D |
| 12:03.12 | Cairenn | Sargeras: baby you wanna believe it ;) |
| 12:03.24 | Sargeras | w00t |
| 12:04.04 | Bouvi | As you can tell here I could not wait to log in this morning lol. http://www.bouvi.com/sigs/mypet.jpg |
| 12:04.35 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 12:06.09 | Bouvi | LOL just got your PM. /bonk yeah I know what a dipstick. In my defense I had been awake for 10 mins. YAWN. |
| 12:06.49 | Cairenn | no worries :) |
| 12:07.06 | Kalroth | Can I troll too? Please?! Pretty please!? |
| 12:07.49 | Cairenn | go ahead and say congrats to the other winners or whatever, just leave out the part that it was for your wife - cause if it was for your wife, she should have submitted them under her own account :p |
| 12:08.17 | Bouvi | I already said congrats. The account she plays on is mine :) |
| 12:09.52 | Kalroth | I want to be a winner too. :( |
| 12:10.29 | Sargeras | wow, I just read that thread |
| 12:11.27 | zenzelezz | <Sargeras> Cairenn is just a troublemaker <-- leave it to the Destroyer to talk about being a "troublemaker" |
| 12:11.36 | Bouvi | Man I need over 2,000 gold... I mean $$. Scuba gear is expensive. |
| 12:12.06 | Kalroth | Putting Cairenn and Sargeras in the same room is enough to make a black hole run away |
| 12:12.12 | Sargeras | rawr! who dare?! tastes like chicken! |
| 12:12.34 | Sargeras | Put Cairenn and Sargeras in the same room is just another reason to have a party |
| 12:12.36 | Sargeras | oh yes |
| 12:12.41 | Sargeras | and there will be a party |
| 12:12.43 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 12:12.46 | Sargeras | in about a month |
| 12:13.03 | Sargeras | we will dine |
| 12:13.04 | Sargeras | and then there will be cake |
| 12:13.12 | Cairenn | the cake is a lie! |
| 12:13.27 | Sargeras | birthday cake |
| 12:13.42 | Cairenn | true! |
| 12:13.47 | Sargeras | depending on what Kudane wants to do |
| 12:14.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Mery (n=chatzill@p4FF76D22.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:14.22 | Bouvi | Hey I got singled out in the posts too... At least Dimencia liked my stuff. LOL. Sorry rereading some of the posts now that I am almost awake. |
| 12:14.39 | Cairenn | Sargeras: aye |
| 12:15.07 | Sargeras | Dimencia just needs another thumb to suck on, he whithered both of his off already |
| 12:15.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=chatzill@62.242.38.50) |
| 12:15.52 | JerekDain | what's a good debugging mod? |
| 12:16.04 | Cairenn | ~devtools |
| 12:16.05 | purl | Iriel's DevTools, a highly useful set of debugging tools for developers on WoW. Found at http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=3999 Why isn't it in the default client yet? |
| 12:16.26 | Mikk | There is no single-step debugging or other useful stuff though |
| 12:16.40 | Mikk | There used to be but erm someone forgot to keep it up to date |
| 12:16.51 | Cairenn | yes, yes he did |
| 12:17.09 | Mikk | Well, microsoft picked it up, so you get to scream at them now! |
| 12:17.25 | *** join/#wowuidev IdentifyTarget (n=Identify@241.23.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 12:18.38 | Cairenn | that doesn't get it put back on the site :p |
| 12:24.29 | Mikk | what's a vorpal bunny? oO |
| 12:24.56 | Mery | ohoh please don't kick me if i again beat a dead horse, but i like this line "showed to my friends and they all liked it" it's like all the boys and girls on the german version of american idol saying: "but all my friends said i'm a good singer, you're an imcompetent jury" |
| 12:25.11 | Mikk | haha |
| 12:25.18 | Mikk | right you are :) |
| 12:26.02 | Cairenn | Mikk: I gather you've never watched Monty Python's "Quest for the Holy Grail" |
| 12:26.28 | Mikk | i do, but it wasn't called vorpal there! |
| 12:26.38 | Cairenn | but that's what it's referring to |
| 12:26.52 | Mikk | but yeah i do know what vorpal blades have done in all MUDish games :) |
| 12:27.16 | Esine | Are there any limits on how big SavedVariables are or should be at maximum? An addon I'm making may need up to 10 megabytes or more of saved data. An older version I made many months ago and had in use ever since has about 2 MB SavedVariables, but the newer version would be expanding the featureset quite a bit. |
| 12:27.35 | Mikk | There's no real limit on size of an SV file |
| 12:27.50 | Mikk | There _IS_ a limit on how many unique values you can have in them though |
| 12:27.57 | Esine | oh? |
| 12:28.08 | [SW]Dodge | Esine: du too a funny mistake i got a SV file with 3GB :D |
| 12:28.09 | Mikk | It's Lua limiting it - 32k unique values in a single function iirc |
| 12:28.23 | Mikk | (file == function) |
| 12:28.27 | Esine | well my data has lots of nested tables but none of the tables have more than a few thousand entries |
| 12:28.41 | Esine | hmh |
| 12:29.19 | Mikk | worst case you might have to re-pack your data so that it shoves many values in one single string |
| 12:29.23 | [SW]Dodge | i managed it to assign _G to some part of my addons SV :S |
| 12:29.24 | Mikk | auctioneer needs to do that to survive |
| 12:29.28 | Esine | oh |
| 12:29.36 | Esine | how about this LibCompress I've heard about? Would it do any good? |
| 12:29.37 | *** join/#wowuidev leethal (n=leethal@88.128.82.16) |
| 12:30.11 | Mikk | you don't really want size reduction |
| 12:30.17 | Mikk | that's not very important |
| 12:30.22 | Esine | ok |
| 12:30.52 | *** part/#wowuidev leethal (n=leethal@88.128.82.16) |
| 12:31.00 | Mikk | unless you have a usage scenario where you have LOTS LOTS LOTS of data and only need to access very few entries per play session |
| 12:31.12 | Mikk | and where you can selectively uncompress stuff as needed |
| 12:31.27 | Esine | I have lots lots and lots of data and I need to access many of them during gameplay |
| 12:31.41 | Mikk | because if you do something funky like take your whole database and compress it on each logout, and decompress it on login, well.. guess what... it takes forever to load wow because Lua isn't very efficient at string mangling |
| 12:31.53 | Esine | Mikk, yeah probably. |
| 12:32.16 | Mikk | how about you drop a hint or two as to what the DB contains? =) |
| 12:32.19 | Mikk | easier to help then! |
| 12:32.45 | Esine | player data :) it logs the names and other basic info of every player you meet, including gear and talents |
| 12:33.33 | Esine | my old/current version does that, but I'm thinking of storing pvp combat log and better history management to the addon so you could see how the players' gear and level has changed over time |
| 12:33.59 | Mikk | aha. sounds like you would be well served to compact all data for a single player into a single string |
| 12:34.03 | Mikk | and uncompress when needed |
| 12:34.10 | Esine | ah, true |
| 12:34.46 | Mikk | either you do it yourself - which usually has the best results since you can adapt your packing to your own needs |
| 12:35.19 | Mikk | or you use something like AceSerializer-3.0, which does it for you |
| 12:35.25 | Esine | but the player data contains references (index integers) to other global tables containing item and guild data.. so maybe I should only compress the player info, but keep guild/item database/etc tables uncompressed? |
| 12:35.45 | Mikk | yes probably |
| 12:35.51 | Mikk | or hmmm |
| 12:36.00 | Esine | Mikk, I'll have a look at that thanks. My addon uses Ace3 |
| 12:36.01 | Mikk | you might want to compress the item database too, separately |
| 12:36.35 | Mikk | or what does your item storage look like? |
| 12:36.41 | Mikk | [12345]= ... what? |
| 12:36.50 | Mikk | [12345]="itemLink" ? |
| 12:36.54 | Mikk | if so it's fine |
| 12:36.58 | Esine | on my old version they just store itemlinks so yes |
| 12:37.05 | Mikk | yeah that's already single string |
| 12:37.07 | Esine | and probably in the new version too.. I haven't fully thought that out yet |
| 12:37.47 | Mikk | if you think about it, itemLinks are compressed db fields too ;) |
| 12:38.03 | Mikk | color;itemid;name |
| 12:38.09 | Esine | right |
| 12:38.44 | Mikk | guild data... meh, unless you have hundreds of entries per guild, you can probably leave them uncompressed |
| 12:39.37 | Esine | well guild data will contain list of all members ;) but in average it's just 5-10 entries per guild I've had |
| 12:41.43 | Pneumatus | what's the best way to implement a set in Lua? |
| 12:41.48 | krka | a table |
| 12:41.56 | Pneumatus | a table with the set member as the key? |
| 12:42.00 | krka | yes |
| 12:43.40 | krka | function makeSet(t) local t2 = {} for k, v in pairs(t) do t2[v] = true end return t2 end |
| 12:43.48 | krka | > function makeSet(t) local t2 = {} for k, v in pairs(t) do t2[v] = true end return t2 end |
| 12:46.53 | Hjalte | Is anyone aware of the difference between the two incoming heals modules for oUF? |
| 12:49.43 | Bouvi | So anyone know how addons will be handled in War and how long before warinterface is ready? |
| 12:50.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaelten (n=kaelten@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/WoWIFA/CurseStaff/kaelten) |
| 12:50.09 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 12:50.25 | Cairenn | war.mmoui.com is almost ready to go, D.olby just has to finish optimising a few more things |
| 12:51.34 | Bouvi | excitement mounts :) |
| 12:51.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.30.131) |
| 12:51.47 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:52.07 | Sargeras | that's because he's the man |
| 12:53.18 | zenzelezz | hai peppy |
| 12:53.58 | Lopeppeppy | Morning zenzelezz. |
| 12:54.33 | zenzelezz | no hug? Are you feeling well? |
| 12:55.08 | Lopeppeppy | Actually I'm not, dear, so ya. |
| 12:55.20 | zenzelezz | :( |
| 12:57.09 | Lopeppeppy | Aww, thanks lady. Chocolate and a heating pad are more what I'm using though. :) |
| 12:57.43 | zenzelezz | I'd tell you to stop before you give me ideas, but that's already too late... |
| 12:58.26 | Lopeppeppy | Oh god, no ideas. Let the Peppy die in peace, s'il vous plait.... |
| 12:59.34 | zenzelezz | never said I was going to share them :-o |
| 12:59.44 | Lopeppeppy | Thank you. I'll thank you again later too.... |
| 13:00.00 | zenzelezz | what for? |
| 13:00.14 | Lopeppeppy | Rest. |
| 13:00.15 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 13:00.15 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 13:00.28 | Pneumatus | hmm, table.concat doesnt work if the keys are strings? |
| 13:01.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Kandoko1 (n=Testing@adsl-068-159-119-207.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net) |
| 13:01.42 | Pneumatus | lua> table.concat({["foo"] = 1, ["bar"] = 2}, ", ") |
| 13:01.43 | lua_bot | Pneumatus: No output |
| 13:01.57 | Pneumatus | lua> table.concat({[1] = 1, [2] = 2}, ", ") |
| 13:01.58 | lua_bot | Pneumatus: 1, 2 |
| 13:04.05 | Pneumatus | lua> table.concat({["foo"] = 1, ["bar"] = 2, [3] = 3, [4] = 4}, ", ") |
| 13:04.05 | lua_bot | Pneumatus: No output |
| 13:04.38 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-76-24-240-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 13:04.38 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 13:07.01 | Cairenn | anyone else having problems with WoWI loading slow? http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?p=101180#post101180 |
| 13:07.38 | *** join/#wowuidev ANTRat (n=antrat@rrcs-97-76-222-155.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 13:08.17 | Pneumatus | lua> table.concat({[1] = 5, [2] = 6, ["foo"] = 1, ["bar"] = 2, [3] = 3, [4] = 4}, ", ") |
| 13:08.17 | lua_bot | Pneumatus: 5, 6, 3, 4 |
| 13:08.25 | Pneumatus | haha |
| 13:08.44 | Pneumatus | table.concat, its weird! |
| 13:10.45 | Lopeppeppy | Cairenn, about 2 seconds for me, but I have scripts blocked so that could be their difference, a script running slowly. |
| 13:11.52 | Maldivia | Pneumatus: why you thing that? |
| 13:11.55 | Maldivia | think* |
| 13:12.13 | Cairenn | Lopeppeppy: thanks for checking sweetie :) |
| 13:12.39 | Pneumatus | lua> table.concat({["foo"] = 1, ["bar"] = 2, [1] = 3, [2] = 4}, ", ") |
| 13:12.39 | lua_bot | Pneumatus: 3, 4 |
| 13:12.49 | Maldivia | Pneumatus: it iterates the table sequential from 1 .. n |
| 13:12.57 | Pneumatus | yeh, that just dawned on me |
| 13:12.57 | Maldivia | Pneumatus: as if you were using ipairs |
| 13:14.23 | Maldivia | lua> table.concat({[1] = 1, [3] = 3, [4] = 4}, ", ") |
| 13:14.24 | lua_bot | Maldivia: 1 |
| 13:15.32 | Pneumatus | yeh, so it needs 1..n with no breaks |
| 13:15.52 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@c-67-160-186-84.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 13:15.56 | Maldivia | yep |
| 13:16.00 | Pneumatus | lua> nil or 1 |
| 13:16.01 | lua_bot | Pneumatus: 1 |
| 13:16.08 | Pneumatus | lua> 2 or 1 |
| 13:16.08 | lua_bot | Pneumatus: 2 |
| 13:18.08 | alestane | A lot of table functions work on the "array" portion of the table...contiguous integer indices starting from 1, only. |
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| 13:23.30 | *** part/#wowuidev leethal (n=leethal@88.128.82.16) |
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| 13:38.02 | Mikk | all of them really |
| 13:41.39 | *** join/#wowuidev subu (n=s@g221.ip7.netikka.fi) |
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| 13:53.07 | alestane | Cairenn (or anyone who cares): I've just finished version one of a mod that makes status text on bars (health numbers etc.) flop between percent and absolute while rolled over. What category would this make sense under? |
| 13:53.47 | Cairenn | hrm |
| 13:53.59 | alestane | My best guesses are Quest/Leveling/Reputation, Unit Mods and Miscellaneous. |
| 13:54.17 | alestane | Or maybe Tooltip, but I'm not sure about that one either. |
| 13:54.22 | Esine | alestane, are you going to score a beta key with that addon? |
| 13:54.49 | alestane | Esine: That's up to Cairenn. |
| 13:54.51 | Cairenn | alestane: probably quest/leveling/rep or misc |
| 13:55.22 | alestane | Miscellaneous, I think...that covers a multitude of sins. |
| 13:55.28 | Cairenn | *nod* |
| 13:55.56 | Cairenn | Esine: why would that one "score a beta key" when he already has one, for all the other mods he's got? |
| 13:56.02 | Esine | oh. |
| 13:56.25 | alestane | Is that why I got an extra? |
| 13:57.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik|zZz (n=skullsho@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 13:57.13 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik|zZz] by ChanServ |
| 13:57.47 | smcn | i wish i had an extra ;( |
| 13:58.54 | Bouvi | Hey Cairenn. I know you prob do not know but never hurts to ask. Any idea how long it will take to convert the EU key to a US one? |
| 13:59.35 | Cairenn | I was told it's supposed to be "quick and easy", but beyond that, I don't know, sorry |
| 13:59.59 | Bouvi | No worries you did more than enough already with the contest and all. Kudos. (don't let it go to your head :P ) |
| 14:00.12 | Cairenn | heh |
| 14:00.23 | cbreak | I wonder why blizzard made the keys region limited in the first place... |
| 14:00.33 | cbreak | all additional restrictions only seem to cause problems. |
| 14:00.34 | Bouvi | Just a heh? I am slipping that should have been a full hahahaha. |
| 14:00.41 | Cairenn | in case you hadn't noticed, I take criticism more to heart than praise |
| 14:01.01 | Kalroth | what if it's praising criticism? |
| 14:02.30 | Cairenn | lol |
| 14:02.32 | Bouvi | But but, I made a funny, a joke, a humorful comment. And everyone who criticizes you sucks. Trust me I was more than a bit pissed this morning but held it in somewhat. |
| 14:02.45 | Kalroth | Oi, I don't suck. :( |
| 14:02.52 | Kalroth | Unless you ask nicely! |
| 14:03.32 | Bouvi | O.o |
| 14:03.34 | Cairenn | meh, as I said, it was just a couple people crying because they didn't win, I think we (Dolby, Seerah and I) managed to put them rather firmly in their place |
| 14:03.52 | *** join/#wowuidev ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight) |
| 14:03.52 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 14:03.54 | Esine | which.. contest? |
| 14:04.00 | Cairenn | yeah |
| 14:04.42 | Cairenn | not stressed over it |
| 14:04.56 | Kalroth | nothing a bottle of wine can't fix |
| 14:05.10 | Lopeppeppy | And some cheese for their particular whine.... |
| 14:05.22 | Kalroth | :P |
| 14:05.34 | Cairenn | pretty much Lopeppeppy, yup |
| 14:05.54 | ckknight | howdy all, how's everyone doing this fine morning? |
| 14:06.05 | Lopeppeppy | Drunk and nibbling cheese! |
| 14:06.10 | krka | is it funny because whine and wine are homophones? |
| 14:06.11 | Cairenn | hey ckknight |
| 14:06.12 | Cairenn | how goes? |
| 14:06.22 | ckknight | alright, just got to work |
| 14:06.35 | Bouvi | Doing good, want to kill some people here at work and in pixel land but I am alive :D |
| 14:06.42 | Kalroth | "work" |
| 14:06.48 | Kalroth | everyone knows that ckknight doesn't work |
| 14:06.51 | Lopeppeppy | krka, yes. |
| 14:07.19 | ckknight | Kalroth: :-P |
| 14:07.52 | Kalroth | see, he's even given up on denying it |
| 14:07.58 | alestane | Does BLP Tools not like cursor image files for some reason? |
| 14:08.02 | Lopeppeppy | Too much work. |
| 14:08.07 | *** join/#wowuidev [Liquidor] (n=denras19@fw-tk-1.ruc.dk) |
| 14:09.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Slakah (n=Slakah@5acd436e.bb.sky.com) |
| 14:09.26 | Pneumatus | lua> {[nil or "x"] = 1} |
| 14:09.26 | lua_bot | Pneumatus: table: 0x8082be0 |
| 14:09.44 | Pneumatus | lua> print({[nil or "x"] = 1}) |
| 14:09.44 | lua_bot | Pneumatus: table: 0x8082be8 |
| 14:10.28 | krka | weird sample code |
| 14:10.56 | Pneumatus | lua> for k, _ in pairs({[nil or "x"] = true}) print k end |
| 14:10.57 | lua_bot | Pneumatus: luabot:1: 'do' expected near 'print' |
| 14:11.01 | Pneumatus | lua> for k, _ in pairs({[nil or "x"] = true}) do print k end |
| 14:11.02 | lua_bot | Pneumatus: luabot:1: '=' expected near 'k' |
| 14:11.11 | Pneumatus | _sigh_ |
| 14:11.17 | Pneumatus | lua> for k, _ in pairs({[nil or "x"] = true}) do print(k) end |
| 14:11.17 | lua_bot | Pneumatus: x |
| 14:11.22 | *** join/#wowuidev topsub (n=josh@97.66.185.250) |
| 14:11.40 | krka | maybe you should install lua on your workstation? |
| 14:12.06 | Pneumatus | im done now :) |
| 14:12.37 | alestane | Yes, expressions in [] = val assigners are evaluated before assigning the key. |
| 14:13.20 | Pneumatus | yeh, thats what i was checking :) |
| 14:13.31 | alestane | Cairenn: That was fast. |
| 14:13.38 | Cairenn | ;) |
| 14:15.28 | alestane | If I have a mod I'm updating for WotLK, but it has to be a separate version, is there a good way to host them both on WoWI? |
| 14:16.00 | Cairenn | upload a second version |
| 14:16.09 | Cairenn | into the wotlk cat |
| 14:16.28 | alestane | So it'll effectively be a separate add-on listing? |
| 14:16.33 | Cairenn | yup |
| 14:16.55 | alestane | Okay. Wasn't sure if there was another way, but that works. |
| 14:18.03 | Cairenn | if a single version that works on both you can just click the wotlk check box, but if not then you need to either upload it as its own version, or you could theoretically upload it as a "plugin" to the live version, but that would be kinda odd |
| 14:18.48 | alestane | Well, the only thing I'm thinking is what happens when 3.0 goes live and the beta version becomes the active version of the other? |
| 14:19.05 | cbreak | people will update. |
| 14:19.12 | Lopeppeppy | Ask to have the old one removed? |
| 14:19.13 | Cairenn | you update the live version and I poof the beta one |
| 14:19.24 | Cairenn | that's what we did last time, too |
| 14:19.28 | alestane | Okay. |
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| 14:28.30 | Lopeppeppy | Oh hey, some parts of the Chrome EULA are starting to sound.... unwholesome. |
| 14:28.53 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (n=p3lim@212251215177.customer.cdi.no) |
| 14:29.00 | Cairenn | indeed? |
| 14:29.23 | Lopeppeppy | "By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services." |
| 14:29.35 | Lopeppeppy | I admit, that's just a snippet, but an interesting statement. |
| 14:30.16 | Cairenn | I've love to have this part clarified: "or display on or through" |
| 14:30.30 | alestane | Well, there was an issue when Geocities included a simlar clause years ago. |
| 14:30.40 | Lopeppeppy | It's basically reading that if you use Chrome to do anything, they own your anything. |
| 14:30.45 | Lopeppeppy | Neat trick if you can pull it off. |
| 14:31.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@host81-157-187-168.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:31.02 | alestane | Part of the issue is that server sites need certain rights to serve your data. |
| 14:31.07 | Cairenn | so if I go to any site using it, ie displaying it, they suddenly own it? |
| 14:31.10 | Cairenn | I don't think so! |
| 14:31.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-177-41-97.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 14:31.34 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 14:31.43 | alestane | Depends what the services are and what's being referred to there. |
| 14:32.00 | Cairenn | *nod* as I say, would love to see that clarified |
| 14:32.10 | Lopeppeppy | To serve my data, yes... but to modify it? Adapt? Always interesting. |
| 14:32.11 | Seerah | mornin |
| 14:32.17 | smcn | http://www.google.com/chrome/eula.html |
| 14:32.19 | Cairenn | re-distribute? |
| 14:32.25 | Cairenn | hey Seerah |
| 14:32.26 | Lopeppeppy | Someone with a mind that bends that way ought to pour through the EULA and help me laugh at it. |
| 14:32.49 | Cairenn | we're just talking about some titchy things we're seeing in the Chrome EULA |
| 14:35.32 | alestane | "This license is for the sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined in the Additional Terms of those Services." is the next sentence. |
| 14:36.22 | alestane | So for instance, if they want to show off Google Docs, they can demonstrate how users are using it; is how I read that. |
| 14:36.40 | Seerah | what section are you guys at? |
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| 14:37.01 | alestane | Right now I'm looking at section 11. |
| 14:37.50 | *** part/#wowuidev leethal (n=leethal@80.187.146.253) |
| 14:37.53 | alestane | Interesting, section 12 grants them the right to expect you to download their updates. |
| 14:38.12 | alestane | You can't insist on using an outdated version. |
| 14:38.12 | Maldivia | alestane: just download and compile it yourself, then the eula doesn't apply - it's BSD licensed :) |
| 14:38.16 | Lopeppeppy | Very interesting. |
| 14:38.21 | smcn | so they don't have to support old versions :P |
| 14:38.59 | alestane | Maldivia: That's nice to know, but it's also good to understand what they're expecting of users. |
| 14:41.04 | Seerah | I'm wondering if this is a generic eula for all of their services... I honestly don't remember from the other stuff I use |
| 14:41.51 | alestane | It looks like it is, or contains one. |
| 14:41.53 | AckisWork | man I had/have a pimple on my butt and it's annoying to sit on |
| 14:42.54 | alestane | Lopeppeppy: That phrase you quoted isn't actually as bad as it looks, although it certainly is the sort of thing one might want to check with an attorney if one were concerned about what one was posting. |
| 14:42.56 | smcn | Ackis: that is AWESOME! |
| 14:43.15 | wereHamster | 'section 12 grants them the right to expect you to download their updates.' wtf is that? have a right to expect something? |
| 14:43.17 | Lopeppeppy | For any professional writer who uses a blog site, that's hideously frightening to contemplate. |
| 14:43.44 | alestane | But Google would actually have to host your blog for it to apply at all. |
| 14:43.45 | Maldivia | wereHamster: in other words, they push updates out that the software automatically downloads |
| 14:44.09 | Maldivia | wereHamster: thus you can't hold them responsible if that 5 MB pushed your over your quota |
| 14:44.39 | Lopeppeppy | alestane, I read that anything you post through them is under this EULA. Not just what they hose. |
| 14:45.16 | Lopeppeppy | *host, although my typo was funny as hell. |
| 14:45.21 | wereHamster | it gives them the right to expect me to d/l the update. It doesn't talk about forcing the update upon me |
| 14:45.39 | alestane | As in, if you use Chrome to go to a site where you can post an entry to your blog, they have a right to copy your blog entry? I don't think it's supposed to grant them that. |
| 14:45.42 | Seerah | "9.4 Other than the limited license set forth in Section 11, Google acknowledges and agrees that it obtains no right, title or interest from you (or your licensors) under these Terms in or to any Content that you submit, post, transmit or display on, or through, the Services, including any intellectual property rights which subsist in that Content (whether those rights happen to be registered or not, and wherever in the world those right |
| 14:47.02 | Lopeppeppy | Versus this, Seerah. |
| 14:47.03 | Lopeppeppy | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:47.17 | Lopeppeppy | "... display on, or THROUGH, the Services." |
| 14:47.23 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (n=foxlit@0x573e6bae.alb2nxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 14:47.34 | Seerah | which is followed by this: This license is for the sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined in the Additional Terms of those Services. |
| 14:47.44 | Maldivia | Lopeppeppy: you constantly forget to add the sentence before that: 11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. |
| 14:48.28 | cbreak | you can have the copyright, but if they have a license they can do what ever they want as long as it is allowed by that license |
| 14:48.54 | Maldivia | and if they don't have the license, they need to but a big back box on the screen, everytime they go to a website |
| 14:49.06 | Maldivia | where you posted anything |
| 14:49.13 | Lopeppeppy | Yeah. Copyright versus license, the legal conundrum that means I'd never use Chrome. |
| 14:49.52 | Maldivia | Lopeppeppy: then just use Chromium instead |
| 14:49.56 | wereHamster | Lopeppeppy: have you ever thoroughly read the fx or ie eula? |
| 14:50.00 | Industrial | wat? Lopeppeppy ? I'm just reading your last statement |
| 14:50.05 | Industrial | what would be wrong with it legally? |
| 14:50.09 | Seerah | do you blog on blogger? do you post things on youtube? gcode? calendar? even google search, I'm thinking. This EULA is for all "Services", as is defined in section 1 |
| 14:50.30 | Lopeppeppy | They're all pretty hideous EULA's, which is why my professional stuff isn't done on the intertubes. |
| 14:50.44 | Lopeppeppy | No blogger, no youtube, no gcode.... nope. |
| 14:50.49 | Maldivia | ohh, and Chrome is easy to crash - the entire browser, not just a tab as they say :) |
| 14:51.01 | Seerah | hehe, yeah? |
| 14:51.08 | Industrial | but chrome isnt a service |
| 14:51.14 | alestane | Maldivia: It's also a beta release, and one which wasn't originally scheduled to come out yet. |
| 14:51.18 | Industrial | you dont sign u for it |
| 14:51.31 | Maldivia | alestane: I know - but type :% in the address bad - and boom, crash :) |
| 14:51.31 | Lopeppeppy | What would you classify it as then, Industrial, in terms of their EULA? |
| 14:51.57 | Industrial | I havent read the full EULA |
| 14:52.29 | Seerah | "products, software, services and web sites (referred to collectively as the âServicesâ " |
| 14:52.31 | Industrial | oh never mind, 1.1 |
| 14:52.33 | Industrial | yeah |
| 14:53.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Slakah (n=Slakah@5acd436e.bb.sky.com) |
| 14:53.10 | *** join/#wowuidev Gryphen (n=gryphon@71.216.187.10) |
| 14:53.36 | Maldivia | but basically, the 11.1 clause is a bit weird in a browser - but that's what you get with an all-in-one eula |
| 14:53.58 | Industrial | so, chrome is not the open source thing but chromium is? in that case why would it be possible to get any information from you ;) |
| 14:54.21 | alestane | In any case, they at least do the user the favor of knowing what to expect, and what they're limiting themselves to. The license you grant them is not transferable to others, and they limit the purposes for which they may use it. |
| 14:54.40 | Maldivia | Industrial: basically, yeah - Chrome is just Google's binary build of it |
| 14:55.16 | alestane | Chromium is the actual software project and source, Chrome is a binary distribution. |
| 14:55.19 | Industrial | so they can put things in it to track what you do, possibly, but would they :P |
| 14:55.23 | Maldivia | Industrial: http://code.google.com/chromium/ |
| 14:57.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Dark_Elf (n=Dark_Elf@ip100.net253.mw.net) |
| 14:58.12 | Industrial | how do I turn off localization |
| 14:58.27 | Industrial | from the address bar |
| 14:58.35 | AckisWork | how do you do block comments in ruby? |
| 14:58.56 | Maldivia | Industrial: want english version ? add ?hl=en |
| 14:58.57 | Industrial | nm |
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| 14:59.02 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Tem] by ChanServ |
| 14:59.33 | alestane | But reading it over in its entirety, if you upload a picture to an online photo album using Chrome as your browser, and Google sells mugs with that picture on them, I don't think there are too many judges who would use that agreement to uphold Google's actions if you sued. The statement of intent is pretty clear. |
| 14:59.34 | Industrial | Maldivia: nah i meant that the default search is set to Google and that when I edit it I see that they set it to google.nl but I want google.com e.g. google.com/ncr |
| 14:59.44 | *** join/#wowuidev kneeki (n=chatzill@66.45.169.50) |
| 15:00.06 | Maldivia | Industrial: ahh, you can change that in the settings for the search engines |
| 15:00.11 | Industrial | yeah got it :) |
| 15:00.26 | Industrial | (stupid internatinalization :P) |
| 15:00.33 | Maldivia | yeah |
| 15:00.47 | kneeki | Why is the topic so disgruntled? What happened? |
| 15:00.50 | Maldivia | I prefer my programs in English aswell - seen way too many bad translations |
| 15:01.23 | Lopeppeppy | kneeki, people aren't nice when they don't win contests, and it makes for unhappy pandas. |
| 15:01.31 | kneeki | Ahh, yes. |
| 15:02.01 | Lopeppeppy | Unhappy pandas EAT PEOPLE. |
| 15:02.06 | Lopeppeppy | Do not make unhappy pandas! |
| 15:03.53 | ckknight | Lopeppeppy: I wanna win a contest |
| 15:04.07 | zenzelezz | ah, South Park; bringing pandas' mental well being to the public's conscience |
| 15:04.17 | Lopeppeppy | ckknight, do not ask me what one you win. It creates pandas. |
| 15:05.00 | ckknight | I mean, there was the ROFL contest, which was definitely cool |
| 15:05.06 | ckknight | I entered my dealy |
| 15:05.16 | ckknight | but the people who beat me made cooler stuff |
| 15:05.18 | ckknight | so I don't feel bad |
| 15:05.26 | Industrial | lol. http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1221 |
| 15:08.15 | Industrial | Maldivia: to me its not about bad translations. Technology just doesnt seem right in any other language then english. I loathe windows in dutch, as well as wow in <pick localization>. On the otehr hand I'm really happy that all the people that cba to properly learn English (who knows, maybe youll benefit from it?) are NOT asking me fr 1g pls!!?!? |
| 15:08.57 | Industrial | they should make a rtRETARDS localization |
| 15:09.01 | Industrial | it would pwn for the rest of us. |
| 15:12.07 | Maldivia | Industrial: hehe, well, it's not about the bad translations either for me, that's just an extra minus - I simply prefer English when working with computers, probably because most of my work on computers involves developing, where syntax, comments etc are all in English anyway, so it just feels more natural to have the rest in English aswell |
| 15:13.56 | Maldivia | hmm... am I the only one who constantly flip Dalaran 90 or 180 degrees? |
| 15:16.51 | cbreak | I have never noticed any gravity anomalies in dalaran. |
| 15:17.22 | Seerah | every time I see your addon, Goose, alestane, I want to say duck-duck-goose! |
| 15:17.31 | Maldivia | cbreak: hehe, well, rotate it then :) |
| 15:17.46 | Maldivia | cbreak: I've run to the horde side a lot of time,s when heading for the alliance portals |
| 15:18.03 | Maldivia | cbreak: and to the bank when going to the flight path |
| 15:18.37 | cbreak | I never had that problem. But I tried to sneak into the horde area for half an hour. |
| 15:18.52 | cbreak | my only success was from before they added walls to the pet shop :/ |
| 15:20.02 | cbreak | what I wonder is: why does a mage town have two banks, a pet shop, a barber shop, a cheese&whine shop, tons of profession trainers, even a toy store, but no library? :/ |
| 15:20.23 | Lopeppeppy | Relax. They ARE the books. :) |
| 15:26.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Slakah1 (n=Slakah@5acd436e.bb.sky.com) |
| 15:26.28 | Maldivia | they could just conjure up the books when needed? |
| 15:27.23 | Lopeppeppy | Like conjuring water. |
| 15:27.36 | cbreak | or portals... |
| 15:27.44 | cbreak | but they have static portals anyway |
| 15:28.05 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (n=chatzill@66-169-186-78.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 15:29.12 | *** join/#wowuidev kaugummi (n=kaugummi@2002:5091:f1c4:55f:20d:93ff:fe87:d832) |
| 15:29.13 | [Liquidor] | http://chrome.google.com/ down? |
| 15:30.24 | AckisWork | ~api GetSpellInfo |
| 15:30.24 | purl | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetSpellInfo |
| 15:31.42 | haste | [Liquidor]: http://www.google.com/chrome is the url you afe looking for |
| 15:32.55 | [Liquidor] | haste, I believe the source which the installer downloads is from http://chrome.google.com/. Or I don't know really but I can't install Chrome as it won't connect |
| 15:33.24 | haste | http://dl.google.com/update2/installers/ChromeSetup.exe is where it fetches the file |
| 15:33.31 | haste | but it adds a appkey also |
| 15:34.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Tiven (n=Tifa@athedsl-80023.home.otenet.gr) |
| 15:36.09 | [Liquidor] | Yeah but it's the installer that halts.Won't connect |
| 15:37.07 | haste | ah |
| 15:39.02 | alestane | Seerah: that is in fact how the name came about. |
| 15:39.08 | Seerah | hehe |
| 15:39.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Wikwocket (n=wikwocke@adsl-68-79-9-193.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) |
| 15:39.56 | alestane | Since it hid action bars when combat started, originally, I had thisnotion that your action bars were ducking for cover. |
| 15:43.02 | alestane | That and I was having trouble thinking of anything else to call it, so the name stuck. But oddly everyone just seems to take for granted that it's called Goose and moves on. |
| 15:44.35 | Wikwocket | There is a weird set of unofficial rules and customs for mod names |
| 15:46.11 | Wikwocket | And I think there's enough "out there" names where you can get away with anything |
| 15:46.18 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (n=whhao198@58.217.250.208) |
| 15:46.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Adys_ (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys) |
| 15:47.06 | AckisWork | can you do bit stuff in lua? ie: I want to pass a set of flags (40+) and 1 way of doing it is having 40 variables (boolean), the other way would be to have a single 40 bit string |
| 15:47.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 15:47.21 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 15:48.11 | alestane | I believe that WoW Lua does support bitlib. |
| 15:48.53 | AckisWork | what would the the correct way of passing a bit string via a parameter? 1000001111011110... ? |
| 15:49.05 | AckisWork | or is there some special syntax I need to be aware of |
| 15:49.12 | End | don't think you can do binary |
| 15:49.18 | End | can you can do hex though I think |
| 15:49.25 | End | lua> 0x000f |
| 15:49.25 | lua_bot | End: 15 |
| 15:49.26 | alestane | I believe the bit functions operate on numbers. |
| 15:49.32 | End | oh |
| 15:49.39 | End | you want to send a string |
| 15:49.53 | End | How is this generated? |
| 15:50.02 | End | if it's just preset constants, just use hex :P |
| 15:50.13 | AckisWork | so I need to convert the binary to an int base 10, then do bitwise operations on it... which would probably make me go cross eyed |
| 15:50.30 | alestane | No. |
| 15:50.44 | [Liquidor] | Haha check this out: http://groups.google.com/group/google-chrome-help-troubleshooting/browse_thread/thread/e1e54cd802af9802# |
| 15:51.02 | End | it's not hard, but I'm not sure why you're starting out with a binary string |
| 15:51.13 | alestane | If you want to submit a number for use as a bitflag, and it's a known constant, use a hex constant. That's a number. |
| 15:51.23 | wereHamster | [Liquidor]: heh: using a broadband..connection of 128 |
| 15:51.25 | wereHamster | kbps..... |
| 15:51.31 | End | [Liquidor]: o_O |
| 15:51.34 | AckisWork | end: I'm not starting out with anything right now, I'm thinking of redesigning my implementation |
| 15:51.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Drayeah (i=5065af6a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-54a78f4a94a1dcc1) |
| 15:51.53 | AckisWork | right now my flags are 1, 2, 3, ... x and then I just parse them in a huge if statement |
| 15:52.17 | End | you should be able to do a bit shift |
| 15:52.26 | alestane | ints are not base 10 except when they're written out as constants in code. |
| 15:53.02 | alestane | lua> return 17 == 0x11 |
| 15:53.02 | lua_bot | alestane: true |
| 15:53.25 | wereHamster | integers are integers, the base only matters if you want to display them. Otherwise you don't have to care |
| 15:53.36 | *** join/#wowuidev Cide (n=Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 15:53.36 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 15:54.06 | End | lua> bit.lshift(1, 10) |
| 15:54.06 | lua_bot | End: luabot:1: attempt to index global 'bit' (a nil value) |
| 15:54.09 | End | erp |
| 15:54.17 | AckisWork | so you're saying do a foo(0x11) instead of foo(17) as my "bit string"? |
| 15:54.19 | alestane | THe lua bot, however, does NOT have bitlib installed. |
| 15:54.24 | End | does Cide's? |
| 15:54.29 | Cide | >>> bit |
| 15:54.29 | Cide | Cide: { ["band"] = function: 008BAB08, ["mod"] = function: 008BAEB0, ["rshift"] = function: 008BAE30, ["arshift"] = function: 008BAE70, ["bor"] = function: 008BAB48, ["bnot"] = function: 008BAAC8, ["lshift"... (exceeded 200 characters) |
| 15:54.30 | End | >>> bit.lshift(1, 10) |
| 15:54.31 | Cide | End: 1024 |
| 15:54.34 | End | there we go |
| 15:54.38 | End | AckisWork: like that |
| 15:55.08 | End | AckisWork: bit.lshift(1, flagnumber) |
| 15:55.18 | wereHamster | AckisWork: when you're working with flags, then using hex numbers makes the code somewhat more readable |
| 15:55.39 | Cide | eh, not really |
| 15:55.41 | End | I don't think AckisWork is using preset constants |
| 15:55.51 | End | I'd use hex over decimal if it is a constant though |
| 15:56.20 | alestane | There isn't a bit function that returns the bits as individual values, is there? |
| 15:56.28 | Cide | nope |
| 15:56.39 | Cide | easy to make though |
| 15:56.42 | AckisWork | what do you mean by preset constants? |
| 15:56.58 | End | AckisWork: like FLAG_BOB = 0x0010 |
| 15:57.12 | End | are the "flags" predefined or not? |
| 15:57.14 | AckisWork | k, then yes I'm using those |
| 15:57.17 | End | oh |
| 15:57.31 | End | then you don't even -need- lshift |
| 15:57.38 | End | but lshift might be easier to ready |
| 15:57.40 | End | read* |
| 15:57.43 | AckisWork | I have over 40 flags defined |
| 15:57.49 | Cide | oh wow |
| 15:57.59 | Cide | are they just from 1 ... n_ |
| 15:58.01 | Cide | ? |
| 15:58.10 | Cide | if so, a loop would make it easier to read... |
| 15:58.18 | Cide | and just use lshift |
| 15:58.39 | End | I wouldn't suggest a loop, except you do have 40 of them :P |
| 15:58.41 | AckisWork | yes and no, right now they're 1 .. 37, horde/alliance, reputation1 .. reputationN, etc |
| 15:59.06 | Cide | End: managing 40 constants just for that is Bad (tm) |
| 15:59.22 | Cide | a table would be better |
| 15:59.36 | End | Cide: yeah, although if he had like 8, I'd say just write it out |
| 15:59.43 | Cide | yeah |
| 15:59.44 | End | 40 is a whole different story |
| 16:00.05 | Cide | that's what I meant |
| 16:00.09 | AckisWork | Flag1 = bit.lshift(1,1);Flag2 = bit.lshift(1,2), ..., n |
| 16:00.30 | Cide | so do FLAGS = {}; for i = 1, n do FLAGS[i] = bit.lshift(1, i); end |
| 16:01.06 | Cide | or just 2^i |
| 16:01.11 | AckisWork | and then when I want to combine the values in the function I'd just XOR them? |
| 16:01.14 | wereHamster | how many bits do lua integers have? 32 or 64? |
| 16:01.19 | End | don't xor them |
| 16:01.20 | End | well |
| 16:01.24 | cbreak | 52 |
| 16:01.27 | Cide | you'd probably AND them |
| 16:01.33 | End | nono |
| 16:01.35 | End | plain OR |
| 16:01.38 | Cide | oh, combine |
| 16:01.41 | Cide | I thought you meant test |
| 16:01.43 | AckisWork | ahh plain OR mybade |
| 16:01.46 | AckisWork | my bad |
| 16:01.52 | Cide | though |
| 16:01.59 | Cide | in your function why do you combine them? |
| 16:02.09 | End | xor would work if you were flipping I guess? |
| 16:02.12 | Cide | I suppose you could do |
| 16:02.38 | AckisWork | cide: I'm combining them to pass a single argument opposed to X individual ones |
| 16:02.39 | End | wereHamster: they aren't even integers though...they are doubles :o |
| 16:02.41 | Cide | value & (flag1 | flag2) > 0 |
| 16:02.45 | End | bitlib is wonky though |
| 16:02.48 | Shirik | wereHamster: Neither |
| 16:02.55 | Shirik | wereHamster: Lua does not have integers |
| 16:03.07 | Cide | sure it does. |
| 16:03.09 | wereHamster | so on what does bitlib operate? |
| 16:03.09 | Cide | >>> 1, 2, 3, 4 |
| 16:03.09 | Cide | Cide: 1, 2, 3, 4 |
| 16:03.11 | Cide | see?! |
| 16:03.21 | Cide | those look like integers to me. |
| 16:03.24 | End | lol |
| 16:03.30 | Shirik | orly Cide? |
| 16:03.34 | Cide | see, lua goes beyond that |
| 16:03.38 | Cide | lua has 'natural numbers' |
| 16:03.45 | wereHamster | >>> bit.lshift(0.1, 2) |
| 16:03.45 | Cide | wereHamster: 0 |
| 16:03.48 | Shirik | wereHamster: bitlib works in C :) |
| 16:03.48 | Cide | it's pretty awesome. |
| 16:03.51 | Shirik | and it uses "int" |
| 16:03.57 | Shirik | which can be either 16 or 32 bits |
| 16:04.02 | Cide | or 512 |
| 16:04.05 | Cide | if you feel like it |
| 16:04.17 | End | wereHamster: that's not gonna do what you expect >_> |
| 16:04.18 | wereHamster | so good luck with 40 different flags |
| 16:04.22 | End | yeah |
| 16:04.36 | AckisWork | wereHamster: it's substantially more than 40, but I only have 1-37 numbered :P |
| 16:04.40 | Cide | isn't wow's bitlib 64? |
| 16:04.46 | Shirik | I think so |
| 16:04.47 | wereHamster | >>> bit.lshift(1, 32) |
| 16:04.48 | Cide | wereHamster: 1 |
| 16:04.51 | wereHamster | >>> bit.lshift(1, 33) |
| 16:04.52 | Cide | wereHamster: 2 |
| 16:04.55 | Shirik | However, Ackis, I have to strongly encourage you not to do this unless you have a good reason |
| 16:04.56 | Cide | if some flags are combinations, you're fine |
| 16:04.58 | Shirik | bitlib is UNGODLY slow |
| 16:05.06 | Cide | Shirik |
| 16:05.11 | Cide | you're doing it wrong |
| 16:05.14 | Shirik | Because every time you want to use bitlib, it has to do a double->int->double conversion |
| 16:05.16 | Shirik | which is very bad |
| 16:05.18 | Cide | flags are good design in general |
| 16:05.27 | Cide | go with good design first |
| 16:05.34 | Shirik | Granted, good design is good |
| 16:05.34 | End | Cide: Shirik is computer engineer, remember? |
| 16:05.41 | Cide | if it's too slow (PROFILING), change it |
| 16:05.41 | Shirik | But I look at the other side of things too |
| 16:05.44 | Cide | yeah, he overthinks stuff |
| 16:05.50 | Shirik | He's talking 40 flags... |
| 16:05.52 | Cide | no need to change it until it's profiled and deemed too slow |
| 16:06.06 | Shirik | Though Cide has a point |
| 16:06.08 | Cide | so what? if it's only run on, say, PLAYER_AURAS_CHANGED, who cares? |
| 16:06.11 | Shirik | preemptive optimization is the root of all evil |
| 16:06.22 | Shirik | Someone said 40 flags, I assumed he was using all of them :) |
| 16:06.35 | Cide | even if he is, that's not too bad |
| 16:06.45 | Shirik | it wouldn't be bad if bitlib could do them all at once |
| 16:06.53 | AckisWork | I think it's actually at 75 flags if I count the non-numbered ones :( |
| 16:07.01 | Cide | are they all unique flags? |
| 16:07.06 | AckisWork | yes |
| 16:07.10 | Shirik | One of the many reasons I'm working on my own version of bitlib |
| 16:07.17 | Cide | I mean, if one flag is "flag 1 + flag 2", that's two bits on the same flag |
| 16:07.48 | AckisWork | cide: right now they're ... variables |
| 16:07.52 | End | you won't fit it in one number if you have 75 |
| 16:08.06 | Cide | depends if they're 1 << (1...75) |
| 16:08.12 | Cide | then ya, you can't |
| 16:08.14 | cbreak | is something wrong with using a table of fields? besides it being huge in memory |
| 16:08.22 | Cide | two things |
| 16:08.23 | Cide | 1) no |
| 16:08.26 | Cide | 2) it's not huge in memory |
| 16:08.31 | Shirik | does bitlib use 64 bits? |
| 16:08.33 | Cide | unless the table is literally fucking huge |
| 16:08.36 | AckisWork | I'd like to get away from the ... and just have a single or a couple of values to pass |
| 16:08.37 | Cide | Shirik: afaik, yes |
| 16:08.38 | End | Shirik: I think so? |
| 16:08.42 | Shirik | in WoW I mean |
| 16:08.48 | Shirik | I wonder why they can't extend that to 80 :/ |
| 16:08.50 | End | slouken did weird things to it though |
| 16:08.55 | Shirik | maybe macs don't support that I guess |
| 16:08.56 | cbreak | bigger than putting all flags into a single byte string |
| 16:09.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Riffage- (n=nnscript@78-86-205-138.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 16:09.09 | Shirik | guess 64 is safer |
| 16:09.22 | End | well, ppc probably wouldn't support it? I think? |
| 16:09.27 | Shirik | that's what I mean |
| 16:09.30 | cbreak | why not? |
| 16:09.32 | End | yeah, ok |
| 16:09.39 | Shirik | not as a single operation |
| 16:09.53 | End | I'm a little more fuzzy on the low level stuff ;-p |
| 16:10.21 | Shirik | I'm not familiar with PPC but I'll assume they followed the IEEE standard and made 64 bit FPU registers |
| 16:10.27 | End | (I'm kinda curious if amd follows intel's floating point number size) |
| 16:10.28 | Shirik | IA's, however, is 80 bit |
| 16:10.36 | *** join/#wowuidev torokokill (i=torokoki@S01060018f8d4ba54.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 16:10.36 | Cide | >>> bit.band(2^64-1, 2^33) |
| 16:10.36 | Cide | Cide: 0 |
| 16:10.39 | Cide | hm |
| 16:10.52 | Cide | shouldn't that return 2^33? |
| 16:10.59 | Shirik | not if your bitlib is 32 bit |
| 16:11.03 | AckisWork | regarding the table of fields, I don't want to pass a table via a function, I did that before to noticeable performance loss with substantially less values (2-3 second pause in game) |
| 16:11.07 | Cide | ya, that's what I wanted to test :P |
| 16:11.18 | Cide | someone try that in wow? |
| 16:11.22 | End | >>> bit.band(2^33, 2^33) |
| 16:11.22 | Cide | End: 0 |
| 16:11.32 | Shirik | >>> log(bit.band(2^64-1, 2^31))/log(2) |
| 16:11.32 | Cide | Shirik: -1.#INF |
| 16:11.35 | Shirik | erm |
| 16:11.42 | Shirik | >>> log(bit.band(2^64-1, 2^30))/log(2) |
| 16:11.42 | Cide | Shirik: -1.#INF |
| 16:11.45 | Cide | good job, log(0) is definitely defined |
| 16:11.50 | Cide | oh wait |
| 16:11.51 | Shirik | stfu |
| 16:11.52 | Cide | you fail even more |
| 16:11.56 | End | haha |
| 16:11.57 | Shirik | no u |
| 16:12.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Vilkku (n=Vilkku@86-60-157-18-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 16:12.27 | Shirik | >>> log(2^64) |
| 16:12.27 | Cide | Shirik: 44.361419555836 |
| 16:12.30 | Cide | he was like "oh shit, the exponent is wrong!" |
| 16:12.37 | Shirik | no it's not |
| 16:12.45 | Shirik | I was seeing if it was an off-by-one, which it's not |
| 16:12.45 | Cide | I know, I told you a second after you tried it |
| 16:12.48 | Shirik | now tell me why I got 0 :P |
| 16:12.49 | Cide | but then you tried again |
| 16:13.00 | Cide | hell if I know |
| 16:13.05 | Shirik | >>> log(bit.band(2^64-1, 2^15))/log(2) |
| 16:13.06 | Cide | Shirik: -1.#INF |
| 16:13.16 | Shirik | are you on IA? |
| 16:13.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Throngy (n=nn@5ad1452d.bb.sky.com) |
| 16:13.24 | Cide | IA? |
| 16:13.28 | Shirik | intel architecture |
| 16:13.39 | Cide | dunno |
| 16:13.44 | Shirik | >>> bit.bnot(0) |
| 16:13.44 | Cide | Shirik: -1 |
| 16:13.51 | Shirik | yes, thank you |
| 16:13.52 | Shirik | gah |
| 16:14.07 | Shirik | That's odd |
| 16:14.26 | Shirik | it seems the cast bitlib does is....strange |
| 16:14.35 | Shirik | it's not a truncation |
| 16:15.27 | Cide | it's using "floor(num + rand())" |
| 16:15.31 | Shirik | AHA |
| 16:15.45 | Shirik | CVTTSD2SI says "If a converted result is larger than the maximum signed doubleword integer, the floating-point invalid exception is raised, and if this exception is masked, the indefinite integer value (80000000H) is returned." |
| 16:15.58 | Shirik | I assume that's the instruction they're using |
| 16:16.11 | Shirik | >>> bit.band(2^64-1, -1) |
| 16:16.11 | Cide | Shirik: 0 |
| 16:16.29 | Shirik | though that's still not the same |
| 16:16.32 | Shirik | I give up really >< |
| 16:16.51 | AckisWork | so for my purposes, it's "ok" to do a bit.or(bit.lshift(1, FLAGID),...) |
| 16:17.02 | Cide | how often does it run..? |
| 16:17.10 | AckisWork | once per scan |
| 16:17.13 | Cide | which is? |
| 16:17.17 | AckisWork | which is whenever the user chooses |
| 16:17.18 | End | not often :P |
| 16:17.23 | Cide | that's fine, then |
| 16:17.26 | End | speed won't be an issue :P |
| 16:17.33 | End | AckisWork: this is for your recipe list, yes? |
| 16:17.36 | AckisWork | yes |
| 16:17.43 | End | yeah, it'll be fine |
| 16:18.00 | AckisWork | end: I rewrote the entire database because I had a few seconds lag when I was passing them via an array |
| 16:18.05 | End | ah |
| 16:18.26 | Shirik | that's fine Ackis |
| 16:18.32 | cbreak | passing an array should be instant, it's by-reference. weird. |
| 16:18.54 | End | cbreak: I think it's the processing he does |
| 16:19.15 | AckisWork | cbreak: You would have 200-300 entries of: foo(stuff, stuff, stuff, {1,2,3,4,5,6,7}, {1,2,3,4}) where each array would be parsed |
| 16:20.03 | AckisWork | end: the processing didn't change substantially... instead of a for loop on the array I did a for loop on the variables ... |
| 16:20.35 | Shirik | Oh, I just got this "urgent" email from the school |
| 16:20.41 | Shirik | "We are actively monitoring the state and progress of Tropical Storm Hanna. We will alert the campus community as soon as there is any information regarding the impact on the campus and our community." |
| 16:20.46 | Shirik | ..... very urgent |
| 16:20.47 | Shirik | really |
| 16:21.23 | Shirik | I should send out urgent emails saying "I'm doing what I'm paid to do" randomly |
| 16:21.40 | cbreak | sounds like a good plan to ensure job security |
| 16:22.08 | AckisWork | more on this passing arrays via functions... foo = {}; bar(foo) is that the same as bar({}) ? |
| 16:22.18 | Shirik | and is the same as bar{} |
| 16:22.18 | Shirik | yes |
| 16:22.23 | ckknight | AckisWork: basically, yes |
| 16:22.25 | Cide | bar{} is fugly |
| 16:22.29 | Shirik | bar{} is awesome |
| 16:22.38 | ckknight | bar "your mom" is ugly as well |
| 16:22.45 | Shirik | that's more ugly |
| 16:22.53 | Shirik | bar{} has some interesting uses |
| 16:23.06 | cbreak | yes. code obfuscation |
| 16:23.08 | ckknight | with bar {}, you can fake kwargs |
| 16:23.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Bouvi (n=Bouvi@72.243.111.178) |
| 16:23.21 | ckknight | but it's heavy, so I don't like it |
| 16:23.23 | AckisWork | ok, extending that a bit: foo = {}; for i=1,n do bar(foo) end versus for i=1,n do bar({}) end |
| 16:23.45 | ckknight | AckisWork: the second makes n tables, the first makes one and uses it over and over |
| 16:23.47 | AckisWork | end: man it would suck if you heard a ping each time your name was mentioned :P |
| 16:24.18 | AckisWork | ckknight: that's where the issue of passing tables via functions comes in then because of making n tables |
| 16:24.22 | End | it only does at the beginning of a line |
| 16:24.24 | *** join/#wowuidev [dRaCo] (n=drc@p5B22AE4F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:24.31 | End | and it doesn't ping, just highlights the line |
| 16:24.57 | *** join/#wowuidev leethal (n=leethal@80.187.146.253) |
| 16:25.03 | cbreak | you can recycle them |
| 16:25.32 | Shirik | This new push towards recycling scares me |
| 16:25.42 | Cide | 'new'? |
| 16:25.50 | Shirik | It's more pronounced than it used to be... |
| 16:25.57 | Cide | it's not really a problem |
| 16:26.00 | ckknight | I disagree, Shirik |
| 16:26.00 | Shirik | It has its uses |
| 16:26.09 | Cide | if the table storing recycles has weak values |
| 16:26.10 | Shirik | But there are a lot of cases where it's no longer useful |
| 16:26.12 | AckisWork | isn't it better to recycle a table if the work for recycling < work for garbage collecting? |
| 16:26.12 | ckknight | back in the day, there was lots of it |
| 16:26.25 | ckknight | yea, but it's hard to gauge when that is, AckisWork |
| 16:26.25 | Shirik | Ackis: Do you honestly think you can do that faster than the GC? |
| 16:26.26 | Cide | AckisWork: you keep garbage around... |
| 16:26.31 | Cide | what Shirik said |
| 16:26.40 | Shirik | ckknight: But "back in the day" it was useful |
| 16:26.42 | Shirik | because the GC sucked |
| 16:26.53 | cbreak | I use recycling in one of my addons |
| 16:27.02 | Shirik | There are its uses, cbreak, I do it myself |
| 16:27.02 | Cide | it's not really useful for normal tables |
| 16:27.08 | Cide | but it's useful for frames in particular |
| 16:27.09 | Shirik | however I only do it where I will reuse all of the keys |
| 16:27.17 | AckisWork | shirik: no idea, never measured GC before, I tend to use a combination of both discarding the table/recycling the table depending on the functionality |
| 16:27.18 | Shirik | for example, Auctioneer's PDF curves |
| 16:27.19 | cbreak | it uses a huge number of tables which accumulate during fights, and after the fight an other huge number gets deleted |
| 16:27.26 | cbreak | and the deleted tables get used again next fight |
| 16:27.34 | cbreak | the total number of tables stays more or less the same |
| 16:27.48 | AckisWork | however I don't know wtf I'm doing so I'm probably wrong |
| 16:27.58 | Shirik | but if your view of recycling is "while table.remove(t) do end" then that is bad |
| 16:28.18 | ckknight | wipe(t) ftw? |
| 16:28.34 | AckisWork | butt = {}; wipe(butt) |
| 16:28.47 | smcn | brilliant! |
| 16:28.53 | AckisWork | you know for a 27 year old I sure act like I'm 2 quite often |
| 16:29.03 | cbreak | I don't know |
| 16:29.06 | Shirik | could be worse |
| 16:29.11 | Shirik | you could act like a 13 year old |
| 16:29.12 | |Jelly| | How's your face healing up, Ackis? |
| 16:29.35 | Shirik | ? |
| 16:30.21 | AckisWork | |Jelly|: some scars which I'll have for life, tip of nose = numb, but other than that it's good |
| 16:30.24 | Cide | django 1.0 rc1 !!! |
| 16:30.39 | |Jelly| | Glad to hear. Did you ever go back and beat his ass? Cause seriously ... |
| 16:30.46 | Shirik | I should kick you for that, Cide |
| 16:30.52 | Cide | why? |
| 16:30.55 | AckisWork | |Jelly|: no I didn't =/ |
| 16:31.02 | Shirik | evil man |
| 16:31.02 | ckknight | Cide: zomg |
| 16:31.11 | ckknight | Shirik: what's the issue? |
| 16:31.19 | Cide | he hates on python |
| 16:31.25 | ckknight | ah |
| 16:31.25 | Shirik | Django is based on python |
| 16:31.32 | ckknight | what's so bad about that? |
| 16:31.37 | Shirik | it's python |
| 16:31.37 | Cide | django's the best thing that's happened to me in the web development area, ever |
| 16:31.41 | Cide | he's just faking it |
| 16:31.44 | Cide | he likes python |
| 16:31.49 | Cide | he just wants to be cool |
| 16:31.51 | Lopeppeppy | You two are hilarious. *poke poke* |
| 16:31.54 | Cide | but we all know how well that goes |
| 16:31.55 | Shirik | actually python is ok because it has j |
| 16:31.58 | Cide | see? |
| 16:32.02 | Industrial | j? |
| 16:32.02 | Cide | python is awesome |
| 16:32.04 | Shirik | but that's the only good thing about it |
| 16:32.07 | Cide | jmaginary unit |
| 16:32.09 | Cide | oh wait. |
| 16:32.16 | Industrial | lua is awesomeer |
| 16:32.19 | Industrial | srsly. |
| 16:32.23 | Cide | nah, I prefer python |
| 16:32.27 | Cide | Shirik: do you honestly dislike python? |
| 16:32.36 | Industrial | well, thats just because I havent programmed in python :> |
| 16:32.38 | Shirik | I honestly have practically no experience with it :D |
| 16:32.45 | Cide | yeah, stop the hating :P |
| 16:32.54 | |Jelly| | What's the script to make it so that I say something say ... 10% of the time I press the button? |
| 16:32.55 | Shirik | perl I honestly hate |
| 16:33.05 | Shirik | but python and perl both start with p |
| 16:33.06 | Cide | import annoy |
| 16:33.18 | Cide | so does PHP |
| 16:33.21 | Cide | fuck php |
| 16:33.26 | End | yeah |
| 16:33.30 | End | fuck php :-/ |
| 16:33.39 | Shirik | write your web apps in C++ imo |
| 16:33.44 | Shirik | CGI ftw |
| 16:34.01 | Cide | yeah, because that wouldn't take years :P |
| 16:34.02 | Industrial | I'm programming in java and I really don't like it. It's for example for this class called Advanced Data Structured and Algorithms (what is big O, how do you measure an algorithm etctec) and I'm making things in lua as well as java and I'm done easier and faster in lua every time :( |
| 16:34.03 | End | I wrote one in C once |
| 16:34.07 | cogwheel | d is an upside-down p... does that count? |
| 16:34.15 | Gnarfoz | |Jelly|: /run if 100 == math.random(1,200) then DoEmote("dance","Xaro") end /startattack /cast [modifier:ctrl] Shiv; Sinister Strike ? :D |
| 16:34.17 | Shirik | Big O is measurement of algorithmic complexity |
| 16:34.18 | Cide | upside-down mirrored p |
| 16:34.22 | Cide | big difference |
| 16:34.25 | wereHamster | Shirik: I'd have expected you to write webapps in assembler, so they can run on an embedded chip |
| 16:34.30 | End | dud |
| 16:34.33 | Industrial | Shirik: yes, I know |
| 16:34.42 | Shirik | Industrial: oh, thought you were asking >< |
| 16:34.46 | Shirik | wereHamster: Good idea! |
| 16:34.47 | Industrial | ^^ |
| 16:34.49 | cogwheel | Cide: depends on your definition of upside down |
| 16:34.50 | Shirik | I'll write a web app for PIC |
| 16:34.55 | Industrial | lol |
| 16:34.57 | End | Shirik: you silly man |
| 16:34.57 | Gnarfoz | Shirik: skim reading ftl :p |
| 16:35.01 | cogwheel | if you take a book and turn it upside down, a p turns into a d |
| 16:35.08 | Shirik | He said "What is big O, how do you measure an algorithm"! |
| 16:35.09 | cogwheel | s/turn/read/ |
| 16:35.15 | Shirik | I'm like "ok, here's what it is..." |
| 16:35.26 | Industrial | if you turn a book upside down you see the cover |
| 16:35.26 | Cide | cogwheel: for every point p (x,y), x U [0, 1], y U [0,1], upside_down(p) = (x,1-y) |
| 16:35.46 | Shirik | however, Industrial, we do that at my school as well. I absolutely hate Java, myself. But I totally agree it's the best language for three classes: Algorithms, Operating Systems, and Introduction |
| 16:35.53 | End | thanks Cide, we needed it formalized |
| 16:35.58 | Cide | anytime |
| 16:36.07 | cogwheel | imo, your definition of p is actually a mirror image just in a different direction |
| 16:36.19 | Industrial | Shirik: why for algorithms |
| 16:36.22 | Shirik | Algorithms because it's straightforward and you don't have to mess with details, OS because of Java's built-in capabilities that act like an OS inside the OS, and Introduction because we have a bunch of AE guys that I'm not going to teach C |
| 16:36.25 | cogwheel | s/ p/ upside down/ |
| 16:36.48 | Cide | cogwheel: well yeah |
| 16:36.55 | Industrial | Shirik: well you could easily take ruby or python for introduction. |
| 16:37.03 | Shirik | ok, point taken |
| 16:37.08 | Shirik | except python is evil |
| 16:37.14 | Shirik | and ruby is ugly |
| 16:37.15 | Cide | cogwheel: and your definition is the same, except you mirror along the other axis as well |
| 16:37.19 | Cide | python is fine |
| 16:37.21 | Industrial | hehe |
| 16:37.21 | Cide | ruby is slow |
| 16:37.24 | cogwheel | no, mines a rotation |
| 16:37.29 | cogwheel | by 180 degrees |
| 16:37.34 | Cide | that's the same thing |
| 16:37.46 | Cide | fail |
| 16:37.53 | Industrial | ruby reads pretty, and I wish lua had classes :> |
| 16:38.02 | Industrial | and with that, I leave for dinner. |
| 16:38.09 | Cide | ruby reads pretty |
| 16:38.09 | Shirik | Lua does have classes |
| 16:38.14 | cogwheel | i'm just saying, if you tell someone to turn something upside down, they'll do it my way! |
| 16:38.14 | Shirik | I have a class keyword |
| 16:38.20 | Shirik | and by keyword I mean a function that acts like a keyword |
| 16:38.21 | End | heh |
| 16:38.27 | Cide | cogwheel: not a programmer ;) |
| 16:38.48 | Cide | Shirik: function class(tbl) ... end? :P |
| 16:38.57 | Cide | class { } -- ugly |
| 16:39.04 | Shirik | actually, class(name) |
| 16:39.11 | Shirik | returns a function |
| 16:39.15 | Cide | I would've done |
| 16:39.24 | Cide | class(tbl) name = tbl[1] end |
| 16:39.26 | Shirik | class "foo" { ... } |
| 16:39.30 | End | so class(name){ blah = x } |
| 16:39.31 | Cide | that's such a hack |
| 16:39.35 | End | ooo |
| 16:39.36 | End | nice |
| 16:39.40 | Industrial | cool |
| 16:39.41 | Industrial | Shirik: pastey? :3 |
| 16:39.45 | Shirik | It's not here |
| 16:39.47 | End | that's so bad you should be deported |
| 16:39.48 | Industrial | k |
| 16:39.51 | smcn | i don't understand the outcry over chrome's eula, is google pointing a gun at these people's heads forcing them to switch? |
| 16:39.55 | End | :P |
| 16:40.00 | End | smcn: yes |
| 16:40.01 | |Jelly| | Gnarfox: Thanks! :) |
| 16:40.08 | Shirik | Actually I have a second function as well |
| 16:40.10 | Cide | function class(name) return function(tbl) tbl.name = name; _G[name] = tbl; end end |
| 16:40.10 | Gnarfoz | tabcomplete ftw |
| 16:40.11 | Cide | done |
| 16:40.17 | Shirik | so you can also do class "foo" extends "bar" { ... } |
| 16:40.22 | Shirik | wait |
| 16:40.23 | Shirik | that's not right |
| 16:40.25 | cbreak | smcn: the eula has the possibility to suck without everyone being forced to use it |
| 16:40.28 | Shirik | something like that, I'd have to look it up again |
| 16:40.34 | Shirik | It was a while ago I did this :) |
| 16:40.38 | Cide | could do class "foo extends bar" { } |
| 16:40.43 | Cide | but that's ugly |
| 16:40.43 | Shirik | nah that's not it |
| 16:40.52 | Cide | well |
| 16:40.56 | Cide | extends could be a function |
| 16:41.02 | Shirik | it is |
| 16:41.06 | Cide | so there you go |
| 16:41.12 | Cide | class "foo" extends "bar" {} |
| 16:41.26 | Shirik | that would require some memory, and I don't remember having persistence |
| 16:41.29 | Cide | just have class() set some temporary variable that extends uses |
| 16:41.37 | End | extends just returns what it got + whatever bar has |
| 16:41.39 | Shirik | I might have though |
| 16:41.51 | Cide | don't think you can do it otherwise |
| 16:42.03 | Shirik | anyway, gotta change rooms |
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| 16:42.06 | Cide | unless you redefine extends every time |
| 16:42.31 | End | er, I mean, the function extends returns returns whatever it gets + whatever bar has |
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| 17:39.09 | Mera | how we could change our svn username ? mine is too long Mera_LaCroisadeEcarlate-92869 :x |
| 17:40.53 | AckisWork | >>> bit.band(1,2) |
| 17:41.11 | ckknight | Mera: we'd have to change your username on curse |
| 17:41.27 | Mera | okk |
| 17:41.30 | End | AckisWork: Cide has quit, read error |
| 17:41.37 | AckisWork | doh |
| 17:41.57 | End | that would return 0 though |
| 17:43.05 | AckisWork | yah I just wanted to see return values |
| 17:43.27 | AckisWork | trying to decide how the comparison, etc would work |
| 17:45.41 | *** join/#wowuidev crysli (n=crysli@1503020765.dong.dbnet.dk) |
| 17:46.20 | crysli | who's here? |
| 17:46.53 | Gnarfoz | 172 clients, including you and me. |
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| 17:47.02 | crysli | I'll rephrase |
| 17:47.06 | AckisWork | 173 now |
| 17:47.11 | Gnarfoz | bukket :X |
| 17:47.13 | crysli | who's active at the moment? |
| 17:47.50 | Gnarfoz | I'm actively playing my rogue on beta right now. :p |
| 17:47.53 | AckisWork | 0,1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512 |
| 17:48.17 | Bouvi | I am here but not sure I would be classified as active. I think I am asleep which is why my boss keeps smacking me in the back of the head. |
| 17:48.30 | alestane | ~asktoask |
| 17:48.31 | purl | This is IRC. Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help. |
| 17:48.59 | crysli | yeahyeah i know |
| 17:49.31 | Gnarfoz | This application has encountered a critical error: ERROR #134 (0x85100086) Fatal Condition Program:F:\WotLK\WoW.exe File:.\SFile2-Core.cpp Line:1161 SFile::Read failed - World\Maps\Azeroth\Azeroth_35_42.adt |
| 17:49.38 | Gnarfoz | or not :X |
| 17:49.43 | crysli | I'm not asking a question, just checking if anyone was active so I wouldn't be all alone :( |
| 17:49.52 | alestane | Semi. |
| 17:50.00 | Lunessa | Bouvi: There's a potential money-making idea. Put a placard up and charge folks $5 to smack you on the back of the head. Here's $20. Hold still. |
| 17:50.55 | alestane | I have a bug report on my WoWI portal. Is there some way I can change the status to "Fixed"? |
| 17:51.07 | Bouvi | Hot damn. Now if $100 pay $20 then I have the $2,000 for my scuba gear. |
| 17:51.19 | *** join/#wowuidev batrick (n=batrick@c-76-113-2-42.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 17:51.24 | AckisWork | end: so what I've decided to do is split my 75 flags into categories from 4 to 20 flags (about 8 categories) which would make it a bit more manageable |
| 17:51.37 | End | yeah, that'd help |
| 17:51.59 | AckisWork | so it becomes: function addon:addTradeSkill(Recipe, SpellID, SkillLevel, ItemID, ClassFlag, SpecialityFlag, ObtainFlag, BindingFlag, ItemFlag, PlayerFlag, RepFlag, ...) |
| 17:52.13 | AckisWork | which is still ugly, but easier to work with |
| 17:52.38 | AckisWork | and the ... will be my arbitrary number of acquire information |
| 17:52.47 | Gnarfoz | srsly |
| 17:52.56 | Gnarfoz | ARL was neat once |
| 17:52.56 | Gnarfoz | :p |
| 17:53.02 | AckisWork | :P |
| 17:53.12 | AckisWork | it still is |
| 17:53.24 | Bouvi | Step right up, smack Bouvi in the head for only $5 per smack. Minimum 4 smacks. |
| 17:53.36 | AckisWork | Gnarfoz: http://geo.trippy.org/gallery2/d/2376-1/arl_0022.jpg |
| 17:53.48 | End | whia |
| 17:53.49 | End | whoa |
| 17:53.50 | End | purty |
| 17:53.58 | Gnarfoz | certainly looks ... different |
| 17:54.04 | End | yeah, no kidding |
| 17:54.10 | Gnarfoz | with weird space-wasting UI elements! :D |
| 17:54.18 | AckisWork | that's the beta version that zhinjio and I are working on now |
| 17:54.40 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Esamynn|Away] by ChanServ |
| 17:54.41 | AckisWork | which is requiring me to redo the database stuff :P |
| 17:55.03 | Gnarfoz | I basically just used the list and craved a "flag as 'yeah I won't ever do what I need to acquire this, so don't show me this one anymore" feature |
| 17:55.56 | AckisWork | theres 61 different concepts you can filter by according to that screenie, with a future option of ignoring specific patterns |
| 17:56.46 | Gnarfoz | 61 concepts and I only need the one that's not implemented, durrr :D |
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| 17:57.03 | Gnarfoz | brb, rebooting to fix LK beta not being able to read its own damn files |
| 18:03.27 | Industrial | okay so |
| 18:03.28 | Industrial | http://wowuidev.pastey.net/95362 |
| 18:03.33 | Industrial | why isn't this working :D? |
| 18:04.00 | Industrial | attempt to call method is_a, a table value |
| 18:05.17 | *** part/#wowuidev leethal (n=leethal@88.128.81.150) |
| 18:06.06 | AckisWork | Gnarfoz: the option you need is probably in there you're just too lazy to look at the settings :P |
| 18:06.24 | Gnarfoz | I stopped using it, guess the reason :p |
| 18:06.36 | AckisWork | you didn't care which you were missing? |
| 18:06.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Slakah (n=Slakah@5acd436e.bb.sky.com) |
| 18:06.39 | AckisWork | :P |
| 18:06.51 | Gnarfoz | why'd I have installed it in the first place, then :p |
| 18:07.02 | AckisWork | to see what it's about? I dunno |
| 18:07.11 | AckisWork | if you cared then why stop using? :P |
| 18:07.15 | Industrial | End: :3? |
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| 18:13.43 | AckisWork | end: is there a way to get a boolean out of bitwise operations? ie: bit.band(x,y) == true if it's non zero, or do I need to implement that myself? |
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| 18:17.47 | p3lim | haste: is there a header type way to spawn party pets? |
| 18:18.20 | haste | :Spawn(unit, name, isPet) |
| 18:18.49 | p3lim | gotta try that later on |
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| 18:19.53 | haste | it won't anchor the pets to the party frames if that's what you are indenting to do |
| 18:20.02 | haste | it will create a list like the party, but for pets |
| 18:20.05 | cladhaire | AckisWork: bit.band(x,y) > 0 :P |
| 18:20.51 | AckisWork | cladhaire: can you do a foo = bit.band(x,y) > 0 though? (and I'm still not convinced that bit strings are the "right" idea :() |
| 18:21.02 | cladhaire | yes, you can absolutely do that |
| 18:21.06 | cogwheel | AckisWork: > is an operator that returns a boolean |
| 18:21.07 | cladhaire | that's how you make it into a boolean |
| 18:21.59 | AckisWork | cladhaire: did you see the conversation about bit strings and such earlier? |
| 18:22.06 | cladhaire | no |
| 18:22.23 | cladhaire | can you summarize for me? |
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| 18:22.56 | AckisWork | I have 60ish "flags" that I track, I figured passing a bitstring would be better than an array, and a lot more readable than 60 different variables |
| 18:23.05 | cladhaire | you'd be right |
| 18:23.14 | cladhaire | if en masse |
| 18:23.20 | cladhaire | otherwise a table is just as easy to read/etc. |
| 18:23.26 | cladhaire | if its rare |
| 18:23.34 | cladhaire | all depend son how terse you need it to be |
| 18:23.59 | cogwheel | though you'd need two fields since wow's bitlib is only 32bit |
| 18:24.37 | AckisWork | it's only done when the user requests it (a scan) however as a user I hated when I had to wait a few seconds for it to occur (initial implementation had arrays passed) and as a developer I don't want to have a super long function call |
| 18:24.56 | AckisWork | cogwheel: aye, I've broken it down to about 8 of them to make it more readable right now |
| 18:25.12 | Industrial | http://wowuidev.pastey.net/95365 |
| 18:25.14 | Industrial | I'm getting 2 different tables in the last 2 lines and I dont know why |
| 18:28.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal) |
| 18:30.39 | Lyn | nomnomnom |
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| 18:31.30 | |Jelly| | How fast can you get your account back after being hacked? Like ... the fastest anyone's ever heard of? |
| 18:31.39 | Lopeppeppy | 2-3 days? |
| 18:31.48 | |Jelly| | No, I wasn't hacked. |
| 18:32.29 | Lopeppeppy | Good. *hug* Sorry about your friend/guildie/personage though |
| 18:32.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn (n=chatzill@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 18:32.42 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Esamynn] by ChanServ |
| 18:32.44 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 18:32.44 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 18:32.45 | |Jelly| | Well ... |
| 18:33.06 | |Jelly| | It was "hacked" but they're logging on him right now. He emptied the gbank 9 hours ago. |
| 18:33.27 | |Jelly| | The guild is dying. I'm thinking that they're trying to come up with a good way to take it all for their core group. |
| 18:35.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaso (n=Kaso@host81-157-187-168.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:36.55 | *** join/#wowuidev isman (n=drag@mlr78-3-88-162-68-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:38.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Kemayo (n=kemayo@pool-71-119-236-78.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 18:38.46 | Lunessa | The good way is to just do it. Just honestly snag it all and say "it's ours, ttfh mo-fos." At least that's honest. |
| 18:39.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (n=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik) |
| 18:39.41 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 18:40.31 | *** join/#wowuidev torokokill` (n=torokoki@S01060018f8d4ba54.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 18:41.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Okay, that's new |
| 18:41.19 | Anaral | *sighs* I should really start playing on Live again. My money supply is really low. But I don't wanna. |
| 18:41.28 | ScytheBlade1 | Someone else on this same wifi AP has PulseAudio installed.. |
| 18:41.35 | ScytheBlade1 | I smell a ubuntu laptop nearby |
| 18:41.50 | wereHamster | Anaral: you mean playing real life again? |
| 18:42.06 | Anaral | No, playing on the live servers over beta |
| 18:42.13 | Anaral | Pfft to real life. |
| 18:42.49 | wereHamster | would make sense though, if you don't play real life, you don't earn money and the supply will get low very quickly |
| 18:43.11 | Esamynn | indeed |
| 18:43.26 | Esamynn | life is expensive, whether you are "playing it" or not |
| 18:43.42 | Anaral | With two kids under the age of 4, it's cheaper for me not to play real life, and just let my husband do the earning. |
| 18:43.48 | wereHamster | ScytheBlade1: you like pulseaudio? |
| 18:44.10 | ScytheBlade1 | wereHamster: in a lot of situations, yeah, but not all |
| 18:44.39 | NeoTron | |Jelly|: heh I wrote a script to calculate the total "raid attendance score" for the history of the guild |
| 18:44.48 | NeoTron | which, if we do break up, would be used to divide the guild bank funds |
| 18:45.29 | Shirik | score.NeoTron = max(scores) * 2 |
| 18:45.29 | Shirik | ? |
| 18:45.36 | NeoTron | I'm on top of the list |
| 18:45.44 | Shirik | exactly :) |
| 18:45.55 | NeoTron | but because i've been in pretty much every single raid |
| 18:46.23 | |Jelly| | lol |
| 18:46.57 | NeoTron | I have 97.7% attendance since the epoch |
| 18:48.40 | Shirik | you raided in 1970? |
| 18:50.04 | wereHamster | you didn't ?!? |
| 18:50.05 | Esamynn | Shirik |
| 18:50.16 | Esamynn | Shirik: not necessarily :P |
| 18:50.22 | Shirik | ok |
| 18:50.22 | Shirik | fine |
| 18:50.28 | Shirik | >>> time() |
| 18:50.34 | Shirik | lua> os.time() |
| 18:50.35 | lua_bot | Shirik: 1220467834 |
| 18:50.53 | Lunessa | Shirik: Fail. The rest of us were raiding in the 70s. N00B! :P |
| 18:50.59 | Shirik | lua> math.date(math.ceil(os.time() - os.time() * 97.7)) |
| 18:51.00 | lua_bot | Shirik: luabot:1: attempt to call field 'date' (a nil value) |
| 18:51.02 | smcn | isn't the epoch the earliest date you can return to with a time machine |
| 18:51.06 | Shirik | lua> os.date(math.ceil(os.time() - os.time() * 97.7)) |
| 18:51.07 | lua_bot | Shirik: -118019242642 |
| 18:51.09 | Shirik | er... |
| 18:51.11 | smcn | or was that chrono trigger |
| 18:51.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Lyn (n=Lyn@Lde8e.l.pppool.de) |
| 18:51.25 | zenzelezz | "Epoch" is just a general concept, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoch_(reference_date) |
| 18:51.33 | zenzelezz | not one single time in history |
| 18:51.34 | wereHamster | Shirik: try * 0.977 |
| 18:51.47 | Shirik | crap |
| 18:52.00 | Shirik | trying to eat lunch :( |
| 18:52.06 | Esamynn | zenzelezz: don't bring your dirty *definitions* into this :P |
| 18:52.27 | Shirik | lua> os.date("%c", math.ceil(os.time() - os.time() * 0.977)) |
| 18:52.28 | lua_bot | Shirik: Sat Nov 21 21:26:03 1970 |
| 18:52.35 | zenzelezz | Esamynn: hey, if I can't win using my own arguments, be damn sure I'll resort to facts |
| 18:52.38 | Shirik | there you go Esamynn, it did have to be 1970 |
| 18:52.44 | Shirik | Almost 1971 though |
| 18:53.06 | Esamynn | ~failrik |
| 18:53.07 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 18:53.21 | Esamynn | you completely missed my point :P |
| 18:53.33 | Shirik | no, I just chose to ignore it ^_^ |
| 18:53.47 | zenzelezz | that... is why you fail |
| 18:54.00 | Esamynn | ~lart Shirik |
| 18:54.00 | purl | follow's Shirik with a gauntlet and ... scratch ... HUMILIATION |
| 18:54.09 | Shirik | I like my solution |
| 18:54.24 | Shirik | he obviously was raiding since thanksgiving, 1970 |
| 18:54.45 | wereHamster | great. I'll try to use that argument at my next exam. "But I like my solution!" |
| 18:54.55 | Shirik | try it |
| 18:55.05 | Shirik | maybe teacher will give you points for defending your argument |
| 18:55.37 | Esamynn | depends on the subject |
| 18:55.44 | wereHamster | math |
| 18:55.48 | wereHamster | 1+1 |
| 18:56.00 | Kaso | lua> 1+1 |
| 18:56.01 | lua_bot | Kaso: 2 |
| 18:56.18 | wereHamster | no, it's 5. I like my solution because it's a prime number! |
| 18:56.24 | Kaso | hah |
| 18:56.29 | Shirik | It could be 5 in a different domain |
| 18:56.43 | Shirik | Like, the laplace transform of 1 is 1/s |
| 18:57.03 | Shirik | they are the same, they're just in different domains is all |
| 18:57.11 | Arrowmaster | no its 10 |
| 18:57.47 | Bouvi | Holy crud the Mini Tyrael pet is going for $250 on ebay with 3 days left and 8 bids. Why oh why did I use my code already lol. |
| 18:58.09 | Esamynn | haha |
| 18:58.09 | Arrowmaster | i want a mini tyreal =( |
| 18:58.21 | Arrowmaster | somebody give me $300 |
| 18:58.37 | Esamynn | I want a Bear Mount with a Murloc on it |
| 18:58.42 | Esamynn | oh wait, I'm gonna get one! =D |
| 18:58.48 | Arrowmaster | i want one of those too! |
| 19:01.45 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 19:01.45 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 19:02.17 | Lunessa | I want a Murloc Mount. I'd beat it with a riding crop and run through every city all day long. |
| 19:02.55 | Lopeppeppy | Mrrrrr-lglrglrglrlgrglrglrglrlg...! |
| 19:03.33 | Lunessa | Hi-ho Sharkbait! We RIDE! |
| 19:03.42 | Esamynn | haha |
| 19:03.45 | Lopeppeppy | Sharkbait! Oo-ha-ha! |
| 19:05.38 | Lunessa | A Murloc Mount would so PWN. |
| 19:13.43 | smcn | i have a 404 page on my chrome "most visited" |
| 19:13.45 | smcn | neato |
| 19:14.08 | Thrae | Make :about your most visited page! |
| 19:15.45 | wereHamster | make the 'most visited' page your most visited |
| 19:15.54 | *** join/#wowuidev TC-Laptop (n=chatzill@adsl-76-214-9-184.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:16.41 | TC-Laptop | *sigh* getting a bsod when formating a HD is fail |
| 19:17.22 | Gnarfoz | quick format is teh win |
| 19:18.00 | TC-Laptop | unless the HD is questionable |
| 19:18.05 | |Jelly| | if ( UnitName("player") == "Lesli" and NerdRage("player") > "9000" ) then SetRage("true") end; -- someone make it work! |
| 19:19.43 | smcn | there needs to be an "Over 9000" achievement, if there isn't already |
| 19:19.57 | TC-Laptop | err..i thought i had to be registered to be heard? |
| 19:20.35 | zenzelezz | no, you have to be liked to be heard |
| 19:20.59 | TC-Laptop | "This channel requires that you have registered and identified yourself with the network's nickname registration services (e.g. NickServ)." |
| 19:21.07 | zenzelezz | actually ChanServ decided it didn't like +rR the other day |
| 19:21.31 | TC-Laptop | fickle thing |
| 19:24.14 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi (n=chris@70.90.28.102) |
| 19:25.06 | boshi | How do I create a scrollbar for a ScrollingMessageFrame ? |
| 19:25.30 | smcn | oh noes error 2 :( |
| 19:25.30 | Esamynn | err |
| 19:25.52 | Esamynn | boshi: I'm not sure you could do so with 100% reliability |
| 19:26.06 | Esamynn | boshi: note that the chat frames only have arrows, not a scrollbar |
| 19:27.02 | boshi | ok, i started by using OnMouseWheel ... but ScrollDown and ScrollUp don't seem to do anything ... is there a method for "enabling" scrolling ? |
| 19:27.12 | TC-Laptop | in chat frames, mouse wheel is your friend |
| 19:27.46 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit|mac (n=foxlit@gprs-sonofon-6-nat.mobil.telenor.no) |
| 19:28.34 | boshi | i am trying to create a window with a scrollingmessageframe to log incoming heals and incoming damage ala GrimReaper ... but I can;t seem to figure out how to get it to scroll |
| 19:29.22 | Lopeppeppy | ~comfort NightHawkTheSane |
| 19:29.26 | purl | There, there, NightHawkTheSane. It's OK. I'm here for you. |
| 19:29.26 | NightHawkTheSane | I send an email detailing exactly what svn revisions I made certain changes in. |
| 19:29.54 | NightHawkTheSane | I get back an email saying "when were those changes made?" |
| 19:29.54 | NightHawkTheSane | I'm surrounded by idiots. |
| 19:30.31 | ckknight | boshi: :EnableMouseWheel(true) |
| 19:31.32 | boshi | did that ... http://pastie.textmate.org/private/kt3mu91zv4qo7uda8u6g |
| 19:31.42 | TC-Laptop | NightHawkTheSane: one said when the other where |
| 19:31.45 | Esamynn | ~comfort NightHawkTheSane |
| 19:31.46 | purl | There, there, NightHawkTheSane. It's OK. I'm here for you. |
| 19:31.46 | TC-Laptop | that seems valid |
| 19:32.15 | Thrae | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.24 | NightHawkTheSane | TC-Away: exact svn revision numbers imply explicitly when. a simple svn log can figure that out. |
| 19:32.40 | NightHawkTheSane | TC-Laptop: the fact is, he was just too fucking lazy to do it himself. |
| 19:32.57 | NeoTron | Thrae: what does that do? have they implemented some actual omen-like threat thing or something? |
| 19:32.59 | TC-Laptop | ah, didnt know the revision number said date/time |
| 19:33.14 | Thrae | NeoTron: http://www.worldofraids.com/news/277.html |
| 19:33.54 | NeoTron | sweet |
| 19:34.05 | NeoTron | I admit I didn't expect them to implement that.. let's hope they finish it |
| 19:34.08 | NightHawkTheSane | TC-Laptop: yeah, if you know a revision number, you implicitly know the date/time it was committed, and what paths were committed as part of it. |
| 19:34.54 | Thrae | NeoTron: We don't know if this will go live, they might just be testing a concept in-house with the game systems designers. |
| 19:35.16 | Esamynn | Thrae: to what are you refering? |
| 19:35.23 | Esamynn | the threat meter? |
| 19:35.25 | TC-Laptop | ah. still though lazy != idiot...i should know, i'm on the lazy side of things |
| 19:35.46 | Thrae | Esamynn: Right, the link I just showed NeoTron. |
| 19:35.56 | NeoTron | hopefully it'll go live |
| 19:36.02 | Esamynn | Thrae: the threat API has been in for a while I think |
| 19:36.04 | NeoTron | having a baseline threat meter makes a whole lot of sense |
| 19:36.20 | Thrae | Esamynn: API yes, the meters themselves though... |
| 19:36.46 | Esamynn | unlikely they'd put in just an API |
| 19:36.49 | Esamynn | imo |
| 19:36.55 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (i=smcn@c-67-160-186-84.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 19:37.04 | NeoTron | they have threat displays |
| 19:37.10 | NeoTron | like the floating combat text etc |
| 19:37.14 | Esamynn | if they've acknowledged that some sort of threat warning system is needed, they won't go 1/2 ass on us |
| 19:37.19 | *** join/#wowuidev KarlKFI (n=chatzill@adcom137.adcom.uci.edu) |
| 19:37.46 | Esamynn | Yes, I'm an optimist. :) |
| 19:37.57 | Wikwocket | I'm sure they'll put in a functional meter, yeah like FCT. Not as fancy as SCT but definitely usable. |
| 19:39.11 | Wikwocket | I think they're dedicated to making changes to the default UI so that pugs and casual guilds have tools to be somewhat competitive with super-savvy guilds |
| 19:40.55 | TC-Laptop | huh? anyone can get mods, not just hardcore rading guilds |
| 19:41.04 | TC-Laptop | raiding* |
| 19:41.08 | *** join/#wowuidev boshi (n=chris@70.90.28.102) |
| 19:41.27 | Esamynn | they are out to make it feasible to raid with the default UI |
| 19:41.36 | Wikwocket | yeah |
| 19:42.07 | TC-Laptop | i still liked raiding better w/o threat meters |
| 19:42.20 | Wikwocket | They know not everyone has ventrilo, or Omen, or DBM, and I think they want people to play at most levels without them |
| 19:42.49 | Esamynn | I don't expect to EVER see timers in the default UI |
| 19:43.09 | Esamynn | but then, that's what I said about Threat meters |
| 19:43.24 | NightHawkTheSane | Esamynn: timers, no, but maybe some RW-style warnings |
| 19:43.41 | Esamynn | NightHawkTheSane: they already have those, for somethings |
| 19:43.46 | NightHawkTheSane | Esamynn: my point exactly. :p |
| 19:43.53 | NightHawkTheSane | which is really all the time ris |
| 19:44.28 | Esamynn | these days, timer addons go a lot further than that |
| 19:44.48 | NightHawkTheSane | i'm pretty sure in 90% of cases, timers are pretty superfluous beyond the "something's about to happen in 10s" part. :P |
| 19:45.16 | Esamynn | you're not a heavy raider, are you? |
| 19:45.37 | NightHawkTheSane | i am, well until very recently |
| 19:46.18 | Esamynn | I raided through the era where we didn't have timer bars, trust me, they add a lot |
| 19:46.54 | *** join/#wowuidev leethal (n=leethal@88.128.81.150) |
| 19:47.10 | cbreak | it's less needed in many newer bosses who babble a lot |
| 19:47.26 | NightHawkTheSane | *shrug* I'm just saying in most cases, I've never needed the information the timers had, except a warning that <some event> was about to happen in <enough time to do what i need to do> |
| 19:47.56 | torokokill` | timers are nice for things like timing curse of dooms for vulnerable phases |
| 19:48.02 | End | ^ |
| 19:48.15 | End | or timing curse of doom so it doesn't hit on a phase change :P |
| 19:48.19 | torokokill` | ^ |
| 19:48.35 | Gnarfoz | ;X |
| 19:48.42 | Esamynn | or figuring out if you're actually going to make it |
| 19:48.51 | Gnarfoz | or calling DPS stops on TS early enough for people to actually honor them :D |
| 19:49.06 | Esamynn | for instance, if you need to pick up the pace on a Hyjal trash pull |
| 19:49.45 | Esamynn | also, the timer bars are handy if you miss the warning |
| 19:50.04 | Esamynn | you don't have to remember how much time was left at the last update, and time it in your head |
| 19:50.08 | NightHawkTheSane | But, in a lot of those cases, a simple warning can suffice at the 'basic' level. |
| 19:50.16 | Esamynn | aye |
| 19:50.23 | cladhaire | anyone know what BG weekend it is this week? |
| 19:50.31 | Shadowed | Esamynn: I can't think of many boss fights where I care beyond the 10s part :p |
| 19:50.31 | Esamynn | was AV last week |
| 19:50.35 | Esamynn | what's after AV? |
| 19:50.43 | Esamynn | Shadowed: class? |
| 19:50.49 | Wikwocket | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/events/calendar/ - WSG |
| 19:50.50 | Shadowed | Resto Druid, and I've done all the fights |
| 19:50.55 | End | I often care for the 30 second part |
| 19:50.57 | Esamynn | interesting |
| 19:51.06 | Shadowed | Brut and Kalec are the only two fights I can really think of where I don't care about the last 10 seconds |
| 19:51.08 | Esamynn | Wikwocket: cheater :P |
| 19:51.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Tuller (n=Tuller@c-76-27-160-125.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 19:51.15 | NightHawkTheSane | which is, i think, my original point. that warnings could be (and are being) added as a basic-level replacement for boss mod timers. |
| 19:51.26 | Esamynn | true enough |
| 19:51.31 | Shadowed | Gnarfoz: What do you think, worth allowing buff canceling out of combat in WoTLK? |
| 19:52.00 | Esamynn | Shadowed: I'm surprised you feel that way actually |
| 19:52.02 | Thrae | No buff canceling out of combat! You buffed yourself, let's make sure those buffs STAY there! |
| 19:52.02 | Gnarfoz | Shadowed: certainly, that sounds easy enough to implement on top of the current state? |
| 19:52.05 | Wikwocket | Having timers automatically appear for boss fights might be a bit much, I could see them adding countdowns or things like what you get for the BM instance |
| 19:52.05 | NightHawkTheSane | Shadowed: I think part of the difference is healer vs dps. |
| 19:52.12 | Esamynn | I don't like to be so totally reactionary, myself |
| 19:52.18 | Gnarfoz | Thrae: point being, can't cancel in combat right now. |
| 19:52.27 | Shadowed | What do DPS need to know about the fight timers? |
| 19:52.35 | Shadowed | 10 seconds is a pretty big warning for most things |
| 19:52.47 | Gnarfoz | I play DPS so I can watch what the other 24 people are doing wrong. :p |
| 19:52.51 | Gnarfoz | (i.e. "lead the raid" |
| 19:52.57 | Wikwocket | heh |
| 19:52.57 | Shadowed | I haven't read the entire argument, but it sounds like NightHawkTheSane is saying most timers are useless beyond the last 10 seconds, not all of them, just most? |
| 19:53.06 | Shadowed | Seems pretty accurate to me :p |
| 19:53.12 | torokokill` | i agree |
| 19:53.16 | torokokill` | as ranged dps |
| 19:53.17 | Esamynn | I wouldn't say useless |
| 19:53.19 | End | currently I care only about timing curse of doom |
| 19:53.24 | Shadowed | True useless is probably a bad word |
| 19:53.26 | End | it's a big deal if I was affliciton though |
| 19:53.28 | Shadowed | Wasteful would be better |
| 19:53.34 | End | affliction* |
| 19:53.52 | End | have to be careful about phase changes there |
| 19:54.00 | NightHawkTheSane | Shadowed: To summarize my point: In blizzards effort to add 'basic' raiding functionality to the deafault UI, simple warnings can replace timers in nearly every circumstances, for basic functionality |
| 19:54.03 | Thrae | Gnarfoz: And I think that's a fine idea. No more buff-and-run tactics in our buff government. If you get buffed with a 60-minute buff, that buff had better STAY there for that entire hour. And no more "stacking" or allowing a "better" buff to overwrite another! Our World (of Warcraft) needs CONFORMITY! |
| 19:54.09 | Esamynn | I don't like only thinking about the next 10 seconds, I pefer to plan a lot further in advance than that |
| 19:54.14 | Shadowed | Blame Blizzard and Feral Druids Thrae :P |
| 19:54.28 | Gnarfoz | Thrae: yeah... you need a blog or something :P |
| 19:54.36 | TC-Laptop | NightHawkTheSane: sometimes`you just need a little prep before an event |
| 19:54.40 | Shadowed | I can't think of a fight where planning in advance really helps |
| 19:54.43 | Esamynn | Shadowed: them are fightin words :P |
| 19:54.46 | Gnarfoz | Thrae: they just, for some reason, protected CancelPlayerBuff :X |
| 19:54.50 | *** join/#wowuidev ecstasia (n=ecs@unaffiliated/ecstasia) |
| 19:55.01 | Thrae | If you think 10-second buffs are bad, you shouldn't play games made by Mythic Entertainment. Say hello to "twisting"! |
| 19:55.07 | Shadowed | If you're say a tank, then yea |
| 19:55.16 | Shadowed | But only 1-3 people tank on a boss fight |
| 19:55.29 | End | well, I think dot management is the biggest thing I'd need to worry about |
| 19:55.29 | Shadowed | I'd still rather have tiny timers, then large warnings in the middle of my screen any day however :P |
| 19:55.35 | End | that makes 10 seconds not enough |
| 19:55.35 | Esamynn | I liked to know what was going on when I was healing too |
| 19:55.59 | NightHawkTheSane | Esamynn: I |
| 19:56.17 | Esamynn | timers give you the information at any time you want it, not just at pre-determined intervals |
| 19:56.19 | Thrae | I think half the people that play classes with "twisting" vehemently hate the micro-management, while the other half love it. |
| 19:56.23 | NightHawkTheSane | Esamynn: I'd certainly admit that for high-end/hardcore raiding, you may want, and even need more accurate timers. |
| 19:57.04 | Esamynn | NightHawkTheSane: yah, yah, I know, we've gone off on a tangent :P |
| 19:57.07 | torokokill` | Take M'uru for example. It's really nice to know if you're on schedule with all the adds in phase 1 |
| 19:57.13 | torokokill` | timers tell you this |
| 19:58.08 | Esamynn | bottom line, Timers make it so you don't have to remember as many "things" |
| 19:58.34 | Shadowed | He did say "nearly every circumstance" didn't he? |
| 19:58.40 | Esamynn | I agree, not strictly necessary for a lot/most of things, but they always add something |
| 19:58.42 | Shadowed | Sounds more like he's arguing most timers can be removed, not all of them |
| 19:58.46 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=sioraioc@cpc3-oxfd7-0-0-cust275.oxfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:00.29 | torokokill` | Does anyone else get insane paranoia whenever they release an addon, thinking that it's possibly inadequate and people on the internet will hate it and never use it again? |
| 20:00.41 | torokokill` | Or is it just me? |
| 20:00.46 | Esamynn | just you |
| 20:00.49 | torokokill` | oh ok |
| 20:00.53 | Wikwocket | I don't get paranoia, I know for sure that no one uses my mods |
| 20:00.58 | Wikwocket | I mean I have numbers |
| 20:00.59 | Esamynn | heheh |
| 20:01.03 | Wikwocket | Or rather, a lack of numbers |
| 20:01.07 | NightHawkTheSane | it's not paranoia, your addons ARE inadequate! |
| 20:01.11 | NightHawkTheSane | (kidding) |
| 20:01.12 | torokokill` | qq |
| 20:01.13 | Syzgyn | torokokill`: If you dont care about people using it, you dont get that :P |
| 20:01.13 | Esamynn | ~lart NightHawkTheSane |
| 20:01.14 | purl | pours hot grits down the front of NightHawkTheSane's pants |
| 20:01.28 | torokokill` | I weep |
| 20:01.34 | Shadowed | oh thats cool |
| 20:01.40 | Shadowed | Blizzard added focus frames in latest WOTLK patch? |
| 20:01.44 | NightHawkTheSane | torokokill`: yeah, that happens to me too, but I just shrug it off. I only make addons that I use anyway, so I don't care if no one uses them. |
| 20:01.55 | NightHawkTheSane | Shadowed: hm, maybe not latest build, but a recent one, yeah |
| 20:01.58 | Shadowed | torokokill`, I usually hope that mine doesn't horribly break something |
| 20:02.04 | Jamash | I'm getting box quote style praise for my addon so I have no idea what you're talking about |
| 20:02.07 | Shadowed | if it doesn't do that I'm happy |
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| 20:02.45 | NightHawkTheSane | Shadowed: pretty much. :) |
| 20:02.59 | NightHawkTheSane | i've gotten some good comments on my couple mods, though, so I feel reasonably good |
| 20:03.33 | torokokill` | mm |
| 20:04.18 | Syzgyn | I'm terrible about putting out updates for mine :\ |
| 20:07.00 | Jamash | what are these "updates" of which you speak |
| 20:07.07 | Esamynn | lol |
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| 20:56.03 | AckisWork | foo(1) or foo("V")... foo(1) is faster and smaller datasize right? |
| 20:57.26 | batrick | huh? |
| 20:57.26 | AckisWork | I'm wondering if an int is faster to pass than a string (char) for a function |
| 20:57.26 | batrick | no, everything passed is equal in speed |
| 20:57.38 | [Liquidor] | Only memory is diff |
| 20:57.56 | Thrae | AckisWork: Not really, when dealing with Lua, especially since we're dealing with a string pool. You're dealing with a dynamically typed language, so you're not passing an "integer", "float", or "string", you're passing an "object". |
| 20:58.32 | Thrae | AckisWork: It's like dealing with C/C++ and passing everything by pointers/reference. |
| 20:58.54 | AckisWork | ahh ok that makes sense to me then |
| 20:59.26 | wereHamster | what is it with americans making fun of arnold schwarenegger (especially how he speaks)? http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=952529&cid=24864943 |
| 20:59.59 | batrick | because it's human nature to pay attention to differences |
| 21:00.08 | AckisWork | now extending this example, if foo(arg) = sometable[arg] = {} |
| 21:05.26 | *** join/#wowuidev soufron (n=soufron@vol75-1-81-57-79-123.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:08.59 | wereHamster | it's french!! |
| 21:09.19 | Industrial | soufron: fail. |
| 21:09.31 | Industrial | l2english on english channels nab :3 |
| 21:09.56 | wereHamster | or at least post a link to an english translation |
| 21:11.15 | soufron | wereHamster, ahahahah |
| 21:11.54 | cogwheel | http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/view.aspx?ciid=1929901 |
| 21:14.42 | Arrowmaster | omg spore is fucking awesome |
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| 21:15.10 | Arrowmaster | im in the middle of the creature phase and a fucking maxis spaceship shows up and starts flying around my planet |
| 21:15.35 | digmouse | Will Wright is incredible |
| 21:16.11 | cogwheel | how's the DRM? |
| 21:16.29 | Arrowmaster | its not out yet |
| 21:23.06 | |Jelly| | Is there a way to export your gbank log from the armory site? |
| 21:23.09 | Tem | death rune mastery? |
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| 21:30.45 | Industrial | Arrowmaster: so hows the DRM |
| 21:30.45 | [Liquidor] | |Jelly|, wowarmory is all xml |
| 21:30.45 | Arrowmaster | dont know cant go online with it |
| 21:31.28 | Industrial | woo *joins in on the torrent* |
| 21:31.36 | Industrial | 26511 peers lol |
| 21:32.42 | Arrowmaster | i got it from an xdcc bot lol |
| 21:33.10 | Syzgyn | Arrowmaster: whats the install size? |
| 21:33.39 | Arrowmaster | 3.8g |
| 21:33.50 | Syzgyn | ouch |
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| 21:44.31 | devXero | anyone know of a decent recently updated multibox addon |
| 21:44.49 | ScytheBlade1 | I've been debating writing one |
| 21:44.54 | ScytheBlade1 | But that's about as far as I've gotten, haha |
| 21:45.06 | devXero | hehe |
| 21:45.36 | devXero | I had a friend come to me asking about accepting quests on the alt, but I couldn't figure a way to do it using lua |
| 21:46.47 | Tem | okay, so |
| 21:46.54 | Tem | I'm stuck using MS Sourcesafe at work |
| 21:46.59 | Tem | I /hate/ it |
| 21:47.15 | Tem | is anyone aware of an interface other than the horrible gui? |
| 21:47.26 | Tem | I'd like to automate my interactions with it |
| 21:47.32 | End | Tem |
| 21:47.36 | End | You have one option |
| 21:47.42 | ScytheBlade1 | There's an app called SvnBridge that actually gives you an SVN interface to a MS Sourcesafe server |
| 21:47.53 | ScytheBlade1 | I have no idea how badly (if at all) it butchers commits though |
| 21:47.57 | Tem | ScytheBlade1: GIVE IT NOW |
| 21:48.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Tem: sec |
| 21:48.16 | Tem | End, Don't think I haven't been spamming my boss with "Source Safe sucks" emails |
| 21:48.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Tem: it was actually developed by MS for their codeplex.com site |
| 21:48.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Sec as I find it.. |
| 21:48.30 | Tem | and every article I can find on the web to agree with me |
| 21:48.35 | Tem | ew |
| 21:48.40 | Tem | maybe I don't want it... |
| 21:48.45 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.codeplex.com/SvnBridge/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=12822 |
| 21:48.48 | *** part/#wowuidev leethal (n=leethal@88.128.81.150) |
| 21:49.13 | ScytheBlade1 | maybe, maybe not |
| 21:49.21 | ScytheBlade1 | In any case it functions as a small proxy server |
| 21:49.48 | ScytheBlade1 | SVN checkout http://localhost:whatever/dns.or.ip.for.sourcesafe.server/Path/to/project/ |
| 21:50.11 | Tem | and it behaves like an svn checkout at that point? |
| 21:50.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Yup |
| 21:50.25 | End | cool though |
| 21:50.26 | Tem | my biggest frustration atm is removing files |
| 21:50.31 | Tem | I |
| 21:50.37 | Tem | I'm rewriting a bunch of crap |
| 21:50.42 | ScytheBlade1 | I haven't used it for anything but checking out/updating |
| 21:50.45 | ScytheBlade1 | YMMV |
| 21:51.03 | Tem | so when I remove a file, SS fails to remove it on next GLV |
| 21:51.07 | Tem | which pisses me off |
| 21:51.08 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 21:51.12 | Tem | so I have to delete twice |
| 21:51.36 | Tem | and then send emails to everyone else working on the project that they need to delete file X or else the project won't compile |
| 21:51.51 | Tem | which is /really/ annoying since I delte 5-6 files per day |
| 21:51.52 | ScytheBlade1 | That sounds pretty terrible |
| 21:52.31 | AckisWork | ~api GetSpellInfo |
| 21:52.32 | purl | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetSpellInfo |
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| 21:52.59 | Tem | hum |
| 21:53.15 | Tem | I don't know a whole lot about SS, but is it the same thing that this svn bridge was built for? |
| 21:53.23 | Tem | from what I'm reading, it was created for CodePlex |
| 21:53.31 | ScytheBlade1 | It'll work with any server |
| 21:53.41 | Tem | to connect to a team foundations server |
| 21:53.48 | Tem | is SS just the front end name? |
| 21:54.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Hmm, good question, I'm honestly not sure |
| 21:54.03 | Tem | and TFS is the type of server it's hosting |
| 21:54.32 | ScytheBlade1 | I got a nice headache on the way home, so if I entirely missed that I wouldn't be at all surprised |
| 21:55.10 | Tem | well, I mean |
| 21:55.12 | Tem | "Run SvnBridge to use TortoiseSVN or other Subversion clients with Team Foundation Server." |
| 21:55.24 | Tem | is source safe creating a Team foundation Server? |
| 21:55.31 | Tem | or is that something else entirely? |
| 21:56.10 | ScytheBlade1 | I really couldn't tell you, I always identified it as "the MS source code app" |
| 21:56.37 | Tem | eh well |
| 21:56.38 | Tem | O |
| 21:56.43 | Tem | I'll investigate tomorrow |
| 21:56.47 | Tem | fuck it for now |
| 21:56.50 | Tem | I want to go home |
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| 22:04.46 | |Jelly| | http://images.mmosite.com/news/2007/04/16/20070416000859317.jpg OLD NEWS IS OLD! |
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| 22:09.49 | smcn | jelly: haha, that chick is awesome |
| 22:12.03 | Duman | heh |
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| 22:23.52 | NeoTron | http://java.dzone.com/videos/video-hug-a-developer-today |
| 22:24.23 | batrick | o ya |
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| 22:29.23 | Kirov | NeoTron - My father has been working on a project for the government where they want to update a major existing system. It's been two months and they've only just now been given access to the existing system after complaining that the team hasn't done any work yet (because they haven't been able to get in to the existing system to see what they're replacing). |
| 22:31.08 | torokokill` | developers are supposed to read minds, your father didn't get that memo? |
| 22:32.32 | Kirov | Especially when it's a system that was designed in the 60's using computers and a programing language that the only person on the project who's seen and used it before is my father. |
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| 22:36.50 | Lunessa | Heh... I worked with a bunch of guys from IBM who'd spent 12 years working on a new air-traffic control system for the FAA to replace the one built in the 60s. After 12 years with no product produced that was anywhere near as good or useful, IBM scrapped the project. |
| 22:38.18 | Gnarfoz | how can you... why would... wah? |
| 22:38.19 | Gnarfoz | ;X |
| 22:39.06 | wereHamster | why? because the government pays well |
| 22:41.24 | Kirov | Yeah, my dad has a guaranteed job for the next 5-7 years getting paid a ton, while still running his own company. |
| 22:41.57 | Kirov | His own company he started 20 years ago, working on completely unrelated projects. |
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| 22:49.57 | Tem | crap |
| 22:50.03 | Tem | ScytheBlade1, Team Foundation Server is not SourceSafe |
| 22:50.06 | Lunessa | Gnarfoz: Basically, the requirements changed daily/monthly and the kind of work the system did had to be largely "fault-free" with no live testing. And it couldn't use a commercial O/S as the base. |
| 22:50.16 | ScytheBlade1 | Tem: boo, but good to know |
| 22:50.18 | ScytheBlade1 | I tried! :( |
| 22:50.36 | Gnarfoz | Lunessa: hug a developer indeed |
| 22:50.54 | Lunessa | Oh yeah. |
| 22:51.20 | Lunessa | It's pretty bad when the mother of all government contractors doesn't want the project anymore. |
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| 22:57.03 | Tem | Lunessa, are you talking about the link I saw on reddit the other day? |
| 22:57.15 | Lunessa | Tem, umm... no? |
| 22:57.26 | Tem | where the woman was requesting a whole OS written in C or C++ for a budget of 20-100$ |
| 22:57.35 | Lunessa | LOL |
| 22:57.49 | Tem | lemme see if I can find the link again |
| 22:58.02 | sacarasc | i remember seeing something like that years ago |
| 22:58.51 | Tem | http://www.getacoder.com/projects/programming_c_87390.html |
| 22:59.10 | Tem | hmm |
| 22:59.17 | Tem | it looks like my memory is sexist |
| 22:59.19 | Tem | oh well |
| 22:59.33 | Tem | it read like the kind of thing a stupid computer-illiterate woman would say |
| 23:00.10 | Aiiane | Tem: dot...dot...dot |
| 23:00.46 | Tem | "Operasting System" is my favorite part |
| 23:01.08 | Tem | well, "And ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE JUST A REDESIGNED WINDOWS as I'm going to sell that operating system later on" is pretty good too |
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| 23:03.01 | Tem | oh lol, I just noticed that it has Visual Basic listed as a required skill |
| 23:03.12 | Tem | ...I wonder if it's a troll |
| 23:04.16 | Kirov | I'm pretty sure Raytheon does more government contract work than IBM, considering Raytheon basically only does government work. |
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| 23:09.37 | Kirov | One of my uncles used to work for Raytheon, he helped design some of the systems for the now infamous Patriot missile. |
| 23:09.37 | Kirov | He talks a lot about how they'd lay out the specification for a part and when it would get built some of the peices would be replaced with ones with lesser specifications, like capacitors with 1/10th the capacity, or using parts known to not be able to withstand the g-forces required of them. When the engineers would complain, the management would just tell them to not worry about it, and if becomes an issue they can just bill the gov |
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| 23:11.12 | Esamynn | O_O |
| 23:12.21 | NightHawkTheSane | Kirov: thank you for -completely- dashing my already waning confidence in the government. :D |
| 23:14.01 | Kirov | As far as I've been able to tell when talking to people who work for the government, or people who work for government contractors, the government will always pick which ever company gives the lowest quote. If the project goes way over budget, the government won't stop it because so much money has already gone in to it, might as well finish it, even if the time and money to finish it is several times what another contractor said it wo |
| 23:14.17 | Kirov | Many of the larger contractors are built around this. |
| 23:14.27 | Kirov | Quote low, bill big. |
| 23:14.56 | Kirov | And intentionally add faults to the product to get subsequent contracts to fix what's broken. |
| 23:15.12 | NightHawkTheSane | that makes my tiny idealistic heart break. :\ |
| 23:15.17 | *** part/#wowuidev Malgayne (n=caseymon@cpe-24-30-145-15.san.res.rr.com) |
| 23:15.26 | NightHawkTheSane | although i can't say i didn't know it happens.. *shrug* |
| 23:16.23 | Esamynn | this is the problem with democratic governments, and the system (and companies) they manage, there is no *real* accountability |
| 23:16.57 | NightHawkTheSane | Esamynn: erm, in what way do you mean "democratic governments"? |
| 23:17.10 | ckknight | yea, I don't see how that'd be limited to democracy |
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| 23:17.52 | Kirov | The part I think is more cringe-worthy is in the case of the Patriot missile, a system designed to autonimously shoot down aircraft, of the 30 something times Patriot missiles have actually launched, only 1 hit anything, many missed, and most they don't even know where they went. The one that hit something hit a british commercial airliner. |
| 23:18.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Also, the lack of accountability isn't something that's strictly a result of any one particular form of government. It's something that happens as a result of poor decisions (intentional, or not) made by those in power. |
| 23:18.53 | ckknight | only real way I see to solve such situations is by having smaller government in general so they never hire anyone in the first place |
| 23:18.54 | ckknight | :-P |
| 23:19.16 | Kirov | Strictly speaking, the US isn't a democratic government, it's a "Representative Democracy", which is a fancy re-titling of a republic. |
| 23:19.17 | NightHawkTheSane | ckknight: that's because you're a dirty libertarian ;) |
| 23:19.22 | Esamynn | I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist in other systems, but democracies do seem to exasperate the problem |
| 23:19.22 | ckknight | truth. |
| 23:19.29 | ckknight | but is that so bad, NightHawkTheSane? |
| 23:19.35 | NightHawkTheSane | ckknight: depends on who you ask. :p |
| 23:19.50 | ckknight | I'm a minarchist, not an anarchist, though. I see the point in government in some respects |
| 23:20.01 | NightHawkTheSane | But, there's no reason accountability can't exist in any form or size of government. It's a matter of the people involved wanting it or not. |
| 23:20.33 | Esamynn | exactly |
| 23:20.55 | Kirov | Esamynn - City / County / State governments are partially democratic in nature, but the US government is not. It pretends to be, but it isn't. |
| 23:20.56 | NightHawkTheSane | The only advantage a smaller government would have would be less people to make poor decisions. But the extreme of reduced government is dictatorship, which probably isn't ideal. ;) |
| 23:20.57 | ckknight | most profit more by not having it. |
| 23:21.22 | Esamynn | it is a matter of whether or not those who are in charge of those who made the mistake have something *real* on the line, because of said screw up |
| 23:21.28 | ckknight | NightHawkTheSane: yea, but as long as everyone else has a gun to point at said dictator, we're golden ;-) |
| 23:22.02 | Kirov | ckknight - the problem with a "minarchist" view is, yes, less people make money off of that kind of setup, but those fewer people make MORE money than they would otherwise. |
| 23:22.03 | Esamynn | Kirov: I'm not here to debate semantics with you :P |
| 23:22.11 | NightHawkTheSane | ckknight: except the dictator is usually the one with the biggest/most powerful gun, or the most people with guns on his side. (how do you think he got there in the first place?) So you're back to square one. But we've really gone on tangent now. :D |
| 23:22.17 | Esamynn | at least, not atm |
| 23:22.26 | ckknight | Kirov: so give em less money ;-) |
| 23:22.33 | ckknight | NightHawkTheSane: true |
| 23:23.35 | Kirov | Esamynn - Not really a semantic issue. The people making the decisions about these kinds of things never have to put it to a vote among the major populous. |
| 23:23.47 | ckknight | in any event, stay off my lawn and stay out of my wallet, and I think we'll get along fine |
| 23:23.48 | ckknight | :-P |
| 23:23.58 | Kirov | ie: It's not a democracy issue, it's simply an issue with any governing body. |
| 23:24.40 | Esamynn | Kirov: the problem is that those in charge of the government (the elected officials), aren't really in fear of their jobs for the sort of F**k ups we're talking about, thus, no heads roll |
| 23:25.16 | Kirov | Again, not an issue with democracy, because if it was Bush would of been out of the office already. |
| 23:25.26 | Kirov | He wouldn't of been in the office at all. |
| 23:25.49 | ckknight | yea, I don't like Bush. Far too liberal for me. |
| 23:25.55 | batrick | taxes, wasted spending, and protecting current freedoms are the US government's biggest issues right now |
| 23:25.56 | Esamynn | Kirov: how so? |
| 23:25.58 | Kirov | More people voted for Al Gore. |
| 23:26.07 | *** part/#wowuidev alestane (n=nevin@c-76-24-240-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 23:26.16 | Kirov | If the US was truely a democracy Gore would of been president. |
| 23:26.18 | ckknight | Kirov: yea, and the electoral college fucked him |
| 23:26.19 | ckknight | :-P |
| 23:26.25 | Sixen | hai |
| 23:26.26 | batrick | you guys know that initially they taxed only 3% of income when they first inacted the income tax? |
| 23:26.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-68-172-80-6.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 23:26.31 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 23:26.33 | Kirov | Right, electoral college - ie: republic. |
| 23:27.01 | NightHawkTheSane | (i'm going to regret this), ckknight, Kirov: actually, the supreme court did, when they stopped florida recounts. |
| 23:27.02 | ckknight | America is still a representative democracy, but the way we vote is flawed in modern contexts |
| 23:27.02 | ckknight | imo |
| 23:27.12 | NightHawkTheSane | ckknight: and in mathematical contexts >< |
| 23:27.14 | Esamynn | Kirov: you're interpreting my use of the word "democracy" far too literally, I think |
| 23:27.16 | ckknight | oh, I agree |
| 23:27.20 | Kirov | batrick - and sales tax wasn't supposed to be permanent. It was a temporary thing to help after the stock market crash. |
| 23:27.23 | ckknight | the ballot system we use is very flawed |
| 23:27.47 | ckknight | I'm very fond of the range voting system |
| 23:27.55 | Kirov | supreme court - ie: non-elected officials. |
| 23:28.31 | Esamynn | ckknight: I'd go so far as to say, the system that is used to cast the votes, that you use, is seriously screwed up |
| 23:28.38 | ckknight | I agree. |
| 23:28.45 | ckknight | on a side note, I need to come up with a poll. Any ideas? |
| 23:28.55 | Kirov | Though, I don't blame them for the issues with the presidential elections. Personally, I've usually been quite happy with way the Supreme Court operates. |
| 23:29.11 | Esamynn | ckknight: how about a nice wooden poll |
| 23:29.22 | Dashkal | Preferred political structure: Democracy/Republic/Monarchy/Communist/Anarchy |
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| 23:30.02 | ckknight | nvm, I got a good topic |
| 23:30.12 | Esamynn | sorry :P |
| 23:30.53 | NightHawkTheSane | Esamynn: the whole voting process here, from top to bottom, is screwed up. |
| 23:31.04 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-68-172-80-6.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 23:31.38 | NightHawkTheSane | It fundamentally disenfranchises ~50% of the electorate, and in the worst case (presidential elections) can significantly distort the value of an individual vote. |
| 23:31.58 | Kirov | Communism is another "government" that people seem to grossly misrepresent. Communism has never existed, every "communist" country is really either a republic or military state (ie: forced republic) with some questionable ideals about how individuals are treated. |
| 23:31.59 | Esamynn | NightHawkTheSane: I wasn't even getting into those messy details |
| 23:32.01 | NightHawkTheSane | I think i once worked it out that ~10million votes could win a presidential election.. |
| 23:32.43 | Esamynn | NightHawkTheSane: I think the entire idea of completely electronic voting machines (and their mechanical counterparts) are just totally flawed, what the hell was wrong with the pencil and paper system? |
| 23:33.46 | Kirov | The real issue with all of this really comes down to one simple thing. There are a lot of people out there who a greedy, power hungry, assholes. |
| 23:33.52 | NightHawkTheSane | Esamynn: there's nothing wrong with electronic voting machines, as long as there's complete openness and accountability in place. That's NOT the case, so it fails. |
| 23:34.00 | Dashkal | Esamynn: the problem is it's slow and prone to human error |
| 23:34.10 | Esamynn | Dashkal: doesn't have to be |
| 23:34.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Corgan (n=Corgan@cpe-66-91-6-220.hawaii.res.rr.com) |
| 23:34.34 | Dashkal | erm? pencil and paper voting does have to be. Unless you want to get into automatic scanning fun? |
| 23:34.39 | Esamynn | you can have paper ballots, which the voter marks with a pencil, but then have the results tallied by a scanner |
| 23:34.50 | Ackis | Dashkal: how is the pencil/paper system prone to error? |
| 23:34.50 | NightHawkTheSane | cause scanners NEVER make mistakes. ;) |
| 23:35.00 | Esamynn | the benefit there, is when it comes down to it, you have a FULL COMPLETE PAPER TRAIL! |
| 23:35.10 | Esamynn | NightHawkTheSane: they are less prone to mistakes than humans |
| 23:35.23 | cbreak | and easier to manipulate without trace |
| 23:35.34 | Dashkal | alternative: have the machine print a ballot with the voter's choice marked out, and show it behind glass before the voter leaves the room. paper trail and fully electronic with paper only being the audit trail |
| 23:36.02 | Kirov | Most electronic voting machines have a paper trail as well. |
| 23:36.12 | Jamash | Dashkal: my dad is big with open voting, that's the solution they're promoting |
| 23:36.18 | Dashkal | Only point I'm trying to make here is electronic can be done correct |
| 23:36.23 | Dashkal | ly* |
| 23:36.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (n=MikeNGoS@michaelg20.goshen.edu) |
| 23:36.47 | cbreak | The CCC has made quite some fuss about the E-Voting system used in germany |
| 23:37.00 | Esamynn | Dashkal: what advantage does that have over pencil + paper -> scanner ? |
| 23:37.07 | Jamash | also, the voting machine should have no rewriteable media (no viruses that way) |
| 23:37.07 | cbreak | the officials didn't even follow the deployment procedures |
| 23:37.11 | Kirov | I agree there's nothing wrong with electronic voting. Florida has always been a fucked up place when it comes to voting in general. |
| 23:37.24 | cbreak | the whole thing was done so sloppy that manipulation would have been easily possible |
| 23:37.32 | Dashkal | Esamynn: scanner won't fuck up. the voter already checked that the computer was right (he saw the paper ballot printed) |
| 23:37.55 | Dashkal | it removes a point of failure, that's all |
| 23:37.55 | Kirov | Nearly everything that's voted on in Florida they find that a large percentage of votes are made by people who are dead. |
| 23:38.00 | Jamash | the paper ballots can also have printed checksums to reduce the chance of tampering after the fact |
| 23:38.17 | Kirov | ie: People (large companies) pushing a vote one way or another. |
| 23:38.29 | Esamynn | Dashkal: you're assuming the voter will actually check the print out, also, you still have to ensure the security of the printouts, if you want the paper trail to be intact |
| 23:38.34 | Dashkal | Jamash: that would work better for a scanned ballot. otherwise you're doing a checksum on a few bits of data |
| 23:38.35 | NightHawkTheSane | Esamynn: the main advantage to electronic voting is speed of deployment/updates/tallyling |
| 23:38.35 | Industrial | loldemocracylol |
| 23:38.50 | cbreak | http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/79106 |
| 23:39.03 | Esamynn | most, if not all of, you get with pencil + paper + scanner system |
| 23:39.19 | NightHawkTheSane | erm.. no? |
| 23:39.37 | ScytheBlade1 | So I get this PM on my guild forums |
| 23:39.40 | ScytheBlade1 | "I am working on a project which links wow and irc. The general idea is to externalize some of what is going on in game to the outside world. This first piece would let people participate in chat while outside the game (work, home, cell) and vise versa." |
| 23:39.53 | ScytheBlade1 | Hmm |
| 23:39.53 | Dashkal | Esamynn: fully electronic is far faster than by-hand scanning of each piece of paper |
| 23:40.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Where have we heard this idea before? |
| 23:40.04 | Jamash | sounds like a TOS violation |
| 23:40.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Ding ding ding |
| 23:40.22 | Esamynn | Dashkal: not really |
| 23:40.34 | Esamynn | I'm not talking about humans doing the inital tally |
| 23:40.37 | Dashkal | well, I see your mind is made up. *goes back to work* |
| 23:40.53 | Kirov | cbreak - my all time favorite Diebold fuck up is when on their public site they showed a photo of a key used to open ALL diebold electronic voting machines ... and someone found they could use the photo to make a working key. |
| 23:40.56 | cbreak | Dashkal: Counting votes is hardly a time problem. We have tons of votes here in switzerland, all are counted manually, results are quite fast |
| 23:41.26 | Dashkal | cbreak: doesn't mean an improvement to that time is 'useless'. Fully electronic scales better with population growth |
| 23:41.42 | alestane | This is one of the most talented pieces of not-getting-it that I've seen in a while: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9336801287&sid=1 |
| 23:42.04 | Esamynn | Dashkal: are you saying a paper trail isn't necessary? |
| 23:42.20 | Dashkal | Esamynn: oh hell no I'm not |
| 23:42.22 | Mery | the main problem with electronic voting machines is: (nearly) everybody can go, watch, understand and therefore "control" a pen & paper based voting, it's simple enough for _everybody_ |
| 23:42.25 | NightHawkTheSane | Esamynn: *shrug* all of this is pretty moot, in any case. No system, electronic or hand-counted is going to be good without measures in place to ensure accountability and tamper-proofing. |
| 23:42.41 | Dashkal | I'm simply stating that the initial count is far faster if you don't have to feed the ballots into a scanner |
| 23:42.53 | Dashkal | recounts are, and should be, slow |
| 23:42.59 | Esamynn | Dashkal: hold on |
| 23:43.10 | Esamynn | you're assuming the scanner gets fed AFTER the polls are closed |
| 23:43.11 | NightHawkTheSane | and, in the end, those factors are more important than how you record votes in the first place. |
| 23:43.50 | Esamynn | I wouldn't say more important than, but at least as important, yes |
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| 23:44.32 | Jamash | the problem with voting machines is the manufacturers generally don't care about security |
| 23:44.36 | Dashkal | Another advantage is cost. Printers are cheaper than scanners. |
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| 23:44.51 | Dashkal | I think you hit the nail on the head there, Jamash. |
| 23:44.58 | Dashkal | The contractor's job is to make money |
| 23:45.08 | Mery | so if you use an electronic device to aid you counting, i think that's fine, as long as somebody can recount the votes without having to trust some kind of electronic device |
| 23:45.10 | NightHawkTheSane | Esamynn: well, in my opinion, if the votes are recorded accurately, are tamper-proof, and there's full accountability.. I don't care if they're scratches on cave walls, marks on a piece of paper, or bits in a computer, the result will be correct in any case. :) |
| 23:45.29 | Esamynn | point |
| 23:45.58 | Esamynn | but how you record them does play a part in how easy it is to ensure accuracy and accountability |
| 23:46.34 | Esamynn | Mery: I think that's the key point here, and I think we're all more or less in agreement about that |
| 23:46.45 | NightHawkTheSane | arguably, yeah, but sniping at the differences between electronic voting and pencil/paper/scanner voting is little more than minor nitpicking, really |
| 23:47.04 | Jamash | electronic voting can help prevent undervoting and overvoting |
| 23:47.22 | Jamash | paper doesn't have a "are you really sure" option |
| 23:47.24 | Esamynn | Dashkal: you say printers are cheaper than scanners, what about the cost of the machine that accepts the vote, and tells the printer what to print? |
| 23:48.06 | Esamynn | Jamash: I would argue it doesn't need one |
| 23:48.16 | Dashkal | Esamynn: meh, lost on that point. I was about to counter except I realized you need less scanners than voting booths |
| 23:48.30 | Esamynn | fewer |
| 23:48.35 | Esamynn | Learn2SpeakEnglish :P |
| 23:48.41 | Dashkal | less works there :p |
| 23:48.49 | Esamynn | it's incorrect English |
| 23:49.00 | Esamynn | you cannot have 1/2 a voting machine |
| 23:49.07 | Dashkal | I'm speaking in conversational English, not literary. |
| 23:49.26 | Dashkal | in before 'typing' not 'speaking' |
| 23:49.28 | Jamash | Well, you can have half of a voting machine, you just need a chainsaw |
| 23:49.37 | Esamynn | :P |
| 23:50.03 | Esamynn | I try to educate them, but they just won't listen! :( |
| 23:50.11 | NightHawkTheSane | ~comfort Esamynn |
| 23:50.12 | purl | There, there, Esamynn. It's OK. I'm here for you. |
| 23:50.19 | Esamynn | ~botsnack |
| 23:50.19 | purl | aw, gee, Esamynn |
| 23:50.37 | Jamash | the real question is why "more" works as an antonym to both "fewer" and "less" |
| 23:51.00 | cbreak | overloading. |
| 23:51.05 | Esamynn | no one ever said English was logical :P |
| 23:51.13 | Dashkal | On the topic of English. The language really needs a gender neutral pronoun distinct from 'their'. |
| 23:51.28 | *** join/#wowuidev chrippa (n=chrippa@evangelion.se) |
| 23:51.28 | Dashkal | s/./:/ |
| 23:51.35 | cbreak | "it" |
| 23:51.49 | Jamash | There are several, but people generally don't know of them or don't want to use them |
| 23:51.58 | Dashkal | 'it' is unsutable because it dehumanizes the subject. |
| 23:52.14 | batrick | 'one' is generally appropriate |
| 23:52.21 | batrick | although it often gets overused when used |
| 23:52.26 | Mery | well my point is that it doesn't matter how accurate and accountably a machine works as long as not everybody participating in the vote can trust in it and at least some people don't like trusting in small black chips where they can't look inside and see what happens |
| 23:52.27 | NightHawkTheSane | batrick: that doesn't work in all situations, though |
| 23:52.31 | Esamynn | only because that's how our society interprets it Dashkal |
| 23:52.40 | Jamash | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun |
| 23:52.42 | Dashkal | Esamynn: correct, but that's all that matters |
| 23:52.44 | batrick | NightHawkTheSane: example? |
| 23:53.03 | Dashkal | It's the way that what I said is interpreted that matters, not what I intended. |
| 23:53.11 | Esamynn | this is true |
| 23:53.24 | Jamash | of course it's incorrect to think that just because you can understand paper means it's more reliable |
| 23:54.04 | Esamynn | Jamash: it is, however, something tangible, that every individual voter can completely control |
| 23:54.09 | NightHawkTheSane | batrick: "I could hear <gender neutral pronoun> pounding on the door." |
| 23:54.16 | Jamash | control while it's in their hands |
| 23:54.28 | Lunessa | Ahem. Paper has been known to survive 2,000+ years. As of yet, no electronic media can make that claim. *monkeywrench* |
| 23:54.46 | NightHawkTheSane | Lunessa: good point. :) |
| 23:54.49 | Dashkal | Mery: "small black chips" May I crack open the counter's skull and see what happens? Over dramatic I admit, but it illustrates the point that we really cannot see how it's actually working, only how it's intended to be working. |
| 23:54.56 | NightHawkTheSane | although, i don't know that they make paper like they used to. |
| 23:55.07 | batrick | yes well, good pronoun bad possessive pronoun :) |
| 23:55.12 | Jamash | that's why open source voting is needed, so you /can/ find out how it works |
| 23:55.31 | Mery | Dashkal: but i can go and watch them count the votes (at least in germany) |
| 23:55.34 | cbreak | you can already do that with the voting computers |
| 23:55.44 | Lunessa | NightHawkTheSane: Paper that's lasted that long is pretty rare, but it can and does happen. Archival paper is made without acids and lasts a goddamned long time without any special care. |
| 23:55.45 | cbreak | you can even make the voting computers play chess against you |
| 23:55.51 | Dashkal | Mery: seriously? Wish they had that here. |
| 23:56.10 | cbreak | in switzerland you can count yourself if you want |
| 23:56.18 | cbreak | I think you even get some money for it |
| 23:56.30 | Jamash | what that proves is that physical security is the most important thing in any voting system |
| 23:56.42 | cbreak | hmm... or was that some other country? |
| 23:57.16 | Jamash | paper ballots are easy to forge, computers are easy to hack |
| 23:57.42 | Jamash | people always neglect physical security |
| 23:58.08 | Esamynn | yup, I think this horse is just about dead ;) |
| 23:58.15 | Jamash | I like cake |
| 23:58.24 | NightHawkTheSane | Jamash: *shrug* like i said, several time, three things are important in any voting system: being accurate, tamperproof, and accountable. |
| 23:58.26 | Kirov | cake is awesome |
| 23:58.30 | Jamash | I went to the Cheesecake Factory in Seattle |
| 23:58.31 | Kirov | when it's not a lie |
| 23:58.33 | Esamynn | cake is good, it it's chocolate, Pie is good too! 8) |
| 23:58.38 | NightHawkTheSane | the cake is -always- a lie. |
| 23:58.41 | NightHawkTheSane | pie is win. |
| 23:58.43 | Esamynn | s/it it's/if it's/ |
| 23:58.54 | NightHawkTheSane | Jamash: is that good? I've been by there a few times, but I've yet to eat there. |
| 23:58.57 | Kirov | cheesecake is a pie |
| 23:59.21 | NightHawkTheSane | your mom is a pie. |
| 23:59.33 | Jamash | they have good food and great cake |
| 23:59.34 | cbreak | 3.141592 |
| 23:59.48 | Lunessa | Cheesecake is quite possibly the greatest dessert food ever. |
