| 00:03.19 | *** join/#wowuidev DARKGuy (i=DARKGuy@201.242.104.122) |
| 00:04.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Tenchworks (n=none@69.183.47.6) |
| 00:05.25 | frup | we wiped 3 hours on Kael tonight :( |
| 00:05.26 | *** join/#wowuidev reqol (n=nwkegan@c-76-102-158-120.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:05.35 | frup | phoenixes are pwning us |
| 00:05.50 | cladhaire | http://wowprogramming.com/utils/blp2png |
| 00:06.17 | nevcairiel | how cool is that |
| 00:06.29 | *** join/#wowuidev ecs (n=ecs@unaffiliated/ecstasia) |
| 00:06.32 | cladhaire | its foxlit's code, I just got permission to use it :P |
| 00:06.53 | nevcairiel | i could never find a .exe tool that works right |
| 00:07.34 | nevcairiel | and btw, where is my usb cable to connect my phone? i lost it :( |
| 00:08.35 | haste | it's in your jacket |
| 00:08.59 | nevcairiel | most likely not, i never unpacked it from its plastic bag |
| 00:09.26 | Kaso | cladhaire how long to you store the converted file? |
| 00:09.29 | nevcairiel | but its not in my cable storage area :P |
| 00:09.38 | cladhaire | its not stored at all, actually |
| 00:09.39 | Drundia | uhm, upload to site for it to convert, that's... how would i call it.... let's start with weird? |
| 00:09.55 | Kaso | oh how does it work? |
| 00:09.59 | cladhaire | i could, but i'd have to md5 the result or somethign like that |
| 00:10.02 | cladhaire | unix pipes |
| 00:10.08 | Kaso | ah i see |
| 00:10.19 | cladhaire | Drundia: huh? I dont understand what you're saying |
| 00:10.29 | Iriel | I used to offer a bunch of services like that on one of my web servers for a friend who was travelling around the world and maintaining a travel blog |
| 00:10.44 | Iriel | he'd POST large jpegs and it'd respond with a cropped and scaled version |
| 00:11.51 | Kaso | Ive never really considered doing that before, but it makes sense |
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| 00:13.37 | Drundia | cladhaire let's just say that it's not quite usable for mass conversions |
| 00:13.51 | cladhaire | and what would you need to mass convert? |
| 00:14.03 | cladhaire | considering I'll be providing the entirety of Blizzard Interface Art in converted form |
| 00:14.09 | cladhaire | available as a .zip as well |
| 00:14.17 | Kaso | you can download offline converting scripts if you really need massconversions |
| 00:14.28 | cladhaire | or download them from the site |
| 00:14.32 | cladhaire | :P |
| 00:14.36 | Kaso | oh that ^ |
| 00:14.38 | Kaso | all options |
| 00:15.41 | cladhaire | what magic button |
| 00:16.00 | Tenchworks | A zip file with all the art files converted, wouldn't that come out to be rather large in size? |
| 00:16.14 | cladhaire | so? |
| 00:16.22 | Tenchworks | hehe |
| 00:16.25 | Drundia | I don't know, the one saying "download blp2png" or something like that |
| 00:16.26 | cladhaire | they'll be available individually as well |
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| 01:34.35 | Shirik | whoooo |
| 01:34.37 | Shirik | bloodboil down |
| 01:35.24 | Lopeppeppy | Huzzah! How did you get him! |
| 01:38.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Hirsute (n=chatzill@lre-east-3-121.usahousing.utah.edu) |
| 01:39.49 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34609 <-- I totally have that |
| 01:40.06 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33307 <-- in combination with that |
| 01:41.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 01:42.09 | ScytheBlade1 | http://images.aboveaverageurl.com/WoW/2.4/SboSword-2.png |
| 01:42.12 | ScytheBlade1 | And it might look awesome |
| 01:42.30 | Kirov | oy, someone in my guild is telling everyone they should use wowmatrix |
| 01:42.50 | Lopeppeppy | *shudder* |
| 01:43.01 | Lopeppeppy | I've fought that battle with my raid group as well. |
| 01:43.11 | Kirov | I tried to explain to him why it was bad, and that there are alternatives. |
| 01:43.17 | Kirov | his response was "I don't care" |
| 01:44.24 | AlexanderYoshi | what is wow matrix |
| 01:44.47 | Kirov | an automatic addon updater run by goldfarmers |
| 01:44.54 | ScytheBlade1 | A program that basically leeches from all of the other addon sites |
| 01:45.06 | AlexanderYoshi | O.o |
| 01:45.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Written in Hypercard with a "lol don't you even dare disassemble this program" EULA |
| 01:45.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Not that you could, as it is Hypercard |
| 01:45.27 | AlexanderYoshi | so what makes it worthwhiel? |
| 01:45.41 | ScytheBlade1 | It does _all_ of the addons you can think of |
| 01:45.45 | ScytheBlade1 | And updates them in a button push |
| 01:45.50 | Lopeppeppy | By leeching them. |
| 01:46.12 | AlexanderYoshi | it sounds like it's just another distro system like wow ace |
| 01:46.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Except that it pulls from wow ace, curse, wowi, etc |
| 01:46.26 | Lopeppeppy | Authors choose to host on the ace site and use their things. |
| 01:46.37 | Lopeppeppy | I don't think authors have any choice about wowmatrix. It just leeches. |
| 01:46.45 | ScytheBlade1 | What 'peppy said |
| 01:47.17 | Hirsute | Hrmmm. I would think, then, that all they have to do is stop using the major distribution sites to distribute their addons... |
| 01:48.37 | Hirsute | Not that I care either way about Wowmatrix itself, but I guess I would assume that if an author puts his addon up on curse or similar sites that he basically assumes it's going to be available to whomever, however they want to retrieve it. |
| 01:49.56 | Kirov | Hirsute - Just because they're put up at those sites doesn't mean they're not copyrighted to the author. |
| 01:50.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Hirsute: which is great, until you realize that it's leeching the ad revenue from the parent sites, and there is a definite problem with that |
| 01:50.29 | Kirov | Some groups, like the auctioneer authors, survive on their site revenue |
| 01:50.32 | Hirsute | Aye, Scythe, and I agree that the parent sites have a right to be upset about it. |
| 01:50.54 | Lopeppeppy | So do the authors. it's their work, they retain copyrights, they retain the say in how it's distributed. |
| 01:51.13 | JoshBorke | ~emulate Josh_Borke |
| 01:51.14 | purl | ACTION hugs Cairenn |
| 01:51.21 | Hirsute | But if they post it to sites like that, there's no way they can reasonably expect to maintain control over distribution. |
| 01:51.41 | Lopeppeppy | Yes, they certainly can. |
| 01:51.46 | Hirsute | Explain? |
| 01:52.00 | ScytheBlade1 | They uploaded it to that site |
| 01:52.06 | Lopeppeppy | Go read some ToS/EULA from the sites, then come back. Is too long to over... |
| 01:52.06 | Hirsute | I'm with you so far |
| 01:52.15 | ScytheBlade1 | They did not give someone else to redistribute it without their permission |
| 01:52.28 | Lopeppeppy | ^^ |
| 01:52.34 | Hirsute | So, wait, maybe I misunderstand how wowmatrix works. |
| 01:52.48 | Hirsute | Does wowmatrix pull the addons from those sites and store them on their own? |
| 01:52.55 | Kirov | yes |
| 01:53.07 | Kirov | then they display advertisements for wow gold sellers, etc. |
| 01:53.08 | Hirsute | Therein lies the rub. I misunderstood how it worked. |
| 01:53.30 | Kirov | That, in turn, makes them money. |
| 01:53.32 | ScytheBlade1 | The gold ads are in-line ads too |
| 01:53.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Not as in "ads served from another page" |
| 01:53.46 | ScytheBlade1 | More like, "static ads hard coded in a table in the site" |
| 01:53.57 | Hirsute | I thought we were talking about a program similar to WAU, except that it pulled addons directly from those sites down to the clients machine. |
| 01:53.59 | Shirik | Lopeppeppy, what do you mean how? |
| 01:54.20 | Kirov | When we addon authors, when we upload our addons to a site, are in effect promoting that site and saying it's ok that they make money off of our work. Usually that money is enough to keep the site running and not much more. |
| 01:54.34 | Lopeppeppy | [21:53] Shirik: Lopeppeppy, what do you mean how? < -- Huh? Peppy is losted.... |
| 01:54.47 | Shirik | (21:34:29) (@Shirik) whoooo |
| 01:54.47 | Shirik | (21:34:31) (@Shirik) bloodboil down |
| 01:54.47 | Shirik | (21:35:18) (+Lopeppeppy) Huzzah! How did you get him! |
| 01:54.59 | Hirsute | Awesome |
| 01:55.05 | Lopeppeppy | Oh, please to share your strategy so he stops kicking my arse and breaking my gear? |
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| 02:07.31 | Shirik | so our druid DCed and we continued without him |
| 02:07.39 | Shirik | 15 minutes later, treads of the den mother (best druid boots in game) drop |
| 02:09.08 | Mikk | HAHAAAA |
| 02:09.14 | Mikk | buggers never dropped for me so far :o( |
| 02:09.25 | Lopeppeppy | Excellent strategy, I'll recommend it to our drooods immediately. :P |
| 02:09.53 | Hirsute | Okay, so back to the WoWMatrix discussion, because you've peaked my curiosity... |
| 02:10.21 | Cairenn|afk | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showpost.php?p=89833&postcount=9 <== read that |
| 02:10.28 | Cairenn|afk | night guys |
| 02:10.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Night |
| 02:10.38 | Cairenn|afk | Hirsute: ^^ |
| 02:10.58 | ScytheBlade1 | And yeah that post covers it pretty well |
| 02:11.19 | Hirsute | Cairenn|afk: Read it, doesn't answer my question. |
| 02:11.34 | Hirsute | If I write a script that uses wget to retrieve the addons I have installed and update them, not rehosting them anywhere, just downloading them to me, installing them for me. Does that irk anyone here? |
| 02:12.07 | ScytheBlade1 | No, not typically. |
| 02:12.09 | Cairenn|afk | does it go to the site and pull them directly? |
| 02:12.20 | Cairenn|afk | ie does the site still get the pageviews? |
| 02:12.21 | Hirsute | Yes, directly from where I downloaded the addon in the first place |
| 02:12.26 | ScytheBlade1 | What does irk people is when a third party site acts as a middleman, and grabs their own ad revenue |
| 02:12.45 | Hirsute | ScytheBlade1: Which is what I failed to understand about WowMatrix initially. |
| 02:12.52 | ScytheBlade1 | And now you know :) |
| 02:12.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Cairenn|afk: SLEEP! |
| 02:13.09 | Cairenn|afk | then no one is likely to have any problem with that whatsoever, Hirsute, providing it pulls from the download page (thus giving the page view and ad impression) and isn't being used to redistribute to others |
| 02:13.26 | Hirsute | Aye, once I understood that, it made a lot of sense why it would be something people wouldn't like |
| 02:13.26 | Cairenn|afk | you aren't violating anyone's copyright that way |
| 02:13.56 | Legorol | Does wowmatrix act as a downloader only, or do they store copies of addons on their servers? |
| 02:13.56 | Cairenn|afk | the other problem with things like WoWMatrix, is that they don't keep it updated, either |
| 02:14.01 | Cairenn|afk | store |
| 02:14.06 | Shirik | oh wow |
| 02:14.10 | Shirik | pure virtual function call! |
| 02:14.12 | Legorol | then it's not only immoral, it's also illegal |
| 02:14.18 | Hirsute | Cairenn|afk: The reason I used that particular example is: wget is pretty scaled back, and there's a lot of ads that wouldn't be loaded, so there's a good chance that there would be ad revenue loss. |
| 02:14.19 | Shirik | there's an error I haven't seen from wow |
| 02:14.27 | Legorol | acting as a downloader is, whilst immoral/unethical, is not illegal at least |
| 02:14.30 | Shirik | silly unsafe inheretance models |
| 02:14.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Legorol: depends on the site |
| 02:14.59 | mdavis93 | What event to I need to hook in order to record damages received during battle? Want to mess with making progress bars via the damage received (both taken and absorbed via priest bbl) Can't seem to find any information on how to tinker with combat data |
| 02:15.02 | Cairenn|afk | so, authors get reports of broken mods, (I covered that in my post, Lego) that aren't actually broken any more, because where the *author* uploads is updated |
| 02:15.17 | Legorol | ScytheBlade1: distributing a program that can download addons from various sites is not illegal. It's like distributing a webbrowser with a pre-selected list of bookmarks. |
| 02:15.38 | Cairenn|afk | anyway, yeah, I'm gone |
| 02:15.44 | Legorol | nn Cairenn|afk |
| 02:15.44 | ScytheBlade1 | Legorol: unless the site expressly prohibits such activites |
| 02:15.52 | Hirsute | Night, Cairenn|afk |
| 02:15.55 | Legorol | ScytheBlade1: i don't think you can do that |
| 02:15.59 | mdavis93 | Sleep well Cairenn |
| 02:16.04 | ScytheBlade1 | Well you'd have to ask a court that :) |
| 02:16.06 | Legorol | you can't tell someone *what* method they may use to download the addon |
| 02:16.21 | Hirsute | Though you can attempt to break methods you don't like |
| 02:16.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Uhh sure you can |
| 02:16.24 | Legorol | For example, I probably can't put in my AddOn's licensing terms that you may only download it with Fire Fox |
| 02:16.32 | ScytheBlade1 | That doesn't mean it'll hold up in court though |
| 02:16.43 | Legorol | if it doesn't hold up in court, it's not illegal ;-) |
| 02:17.08 | Legorol | ok i know it's not that clearcut |
| 02:17.17 | ScytheBlade1 | More like |
| 02:17.26 | Legorol | at any rate, there are several shades of grey |
| 02:17.34 | ScytheBlade1 | If you have a site which says "YOU MAY ONLY DOWNLOAD THE FILES HOSTED HERE FROM THIS SITE" |
| 02:17.39 | Legorol | i know full well why coding up a downloader that pulls from different sources is wrong, but it's not illegal |
| 02:17.45 | ScytheBlade1 | And then a third party app comes and directly violates that |
| 02:17.59 | Legorol | well if it's downloading from the site directly, then it's not violating anything |
| 02:18.06 | Legorol | that's why i used webbrowser as an example |
| 02:18.17 | Legorol | a custom downloader is just a dumbed down webbrowser |
| 02:18.19 | ScytheBlade1 | Someone had to "reverse engineer" the site in the first place |
| 02:18.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Hence agreeing to (and breaking) that requirement |
| 02:18.45 | Legorol | well it's a bit grey though, isn't it |
| 02:18.49 | Legorol | consider the following: |
| 02:19.03 | Legorol | i open my favourite browser, go to Famous AddOn Site, my favourite addon, click on the download link, |
| 02:19.05 | Legorol | and bookmark that page |
| 02:19.09 | Legorol | so far, anything wrong? |
| 02:19.13 | ScytheBlade1 | Nope |
| 02:19.39 | Legorol | right. now let's say i write a greasemonkey script that does the hoopjumping for me, but still using fire fox, on my favourite addon, on my favourite site. |
| 02:19.43 | Legorol | anything wrong? |
| 02:19.48 | *** part/#wowuidev nust (n=Nust@ip70-162-121-123.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 02:19.49 | Legorol | you see, it's getting greyer and greyer |
| 02:19.58 | dylanm | mdavis93: Oh, you're trying to make a PW:S bar. |
| 02:19.59 | ScytheBlade1 | It's easy to grey the lines |
| 02:20.06 | Legorol | then i go and start using wget instead |
| 02:20.08 | mdavis93 | a wha?? |
| 02:20.09 | mdavis93 | lol |
| 02:20.16 | Legorol | then i decide to write an app that wgets from multiple sites |
| 02:20.18 | Legorol | and so on |
| 02:20.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Then you've still done it for yourself |
| 02:20.26 | Kajas | there.. now the nick reflects my char's name |
| 02:20.29 | ScytheBlade1 | It's when you distribute such a thing that gets to be a problem |
| 02:20.32 | Legorol | then i give my custom app to my friend |
| 02:20.40 | Legorol | it's morally problematic, but not legally |
| 02:20.49 | Legorol | I guess what i'm trying to say is: |
| 02:20.50 | ScytheBlade1 | Totally depends on what the site's license says |
| 02:21.21 | Legorol | Ok, thoughtexperiment: |
| 02:21.28 | Legorol | The nature of HTTP is such that you may access any URL without having to visit any other URL before that, in many cases. |
| 02:21.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Okay, wrench in the gears |
| 02:21.49 | Legorol | i know, authentication, sessions, etc. |
| 02:21.55 | ScytheBlade1 | Site has a referrer check |
| 02:22.04 | kd3 | referer* ;) |
| 02:22.06 | Kirov | which is easily spoofed |
| 02:22.09 | ScytheBlade1 | kd3: win |
| 02:22.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Kirov: BAM DMCA HAHAHAHA |
| 02:22.18 | ScytheBlade1 | (shoot me now) |
| 02:22.36 | ScytheBlade1 | kd3: ... in either way I got it wrong. :( |
| 02:22.38 | Hirsute | Aye, but the second you spoof the referrer, you begin to crossover into possibly illegal activity |
| 02:22.51 | ScytheBlade1 | And then to grey THAT line more! |
| 02:22.56 | Legorol | The point I'm making is that there's nothing that says that you can't write a custom application to automate any steps that you'd otherwise manually perform in your favourite webbrowser. |
| 02:22.59 | ScytheBlade1 | You have a license that says "through our website only" |
| 02:23.10 | Legorol | that's a very ambigous term |
| 02:23.16 | Legorol | what does "through our website" mean? |
| 02:23.22 | ScytheBlade1 | One that the courts would exploit heavily ;) |
| 02:23.39 | Legorol | the nature of websites is such that you need a client program to access them |
| 02:23.40 | kd3 | meh... speaking of the courts: wasn't there a court case over deep-linking? |
| 02:23.48 | dylanm | Kajas: You'll want to register for COMBAT_LOG_EVENT_UNFILTERED. |
| 02:23.49 | Legorol | there is usually no prohibition on what client software you may use |
| 02:23.49 | ScytheBlade1 | To respond to your point, if the site says "nope, you've gotta use a verified piece of software in the form of a webbrowser to use our stuff" and you do it anyways |
| 02:23.53 | ScytheBlade1 | Then what? |
| 02:23.56 | dylanm | Kajas: You're going to get a lot of information. |
| 02:23.57 | ScytheBlade1 | /usually/ |
| 02:24.02 | ScytheBlade1 | But it'd be trivial to do so |
| 02:24.23 | ScytheBlade1 | You don't need to enforce it |
| 02:24.30 | ScytheBlade1 | You just need to lay down the rules, put basic checks in place |
| 02:24.56 | ScytheBlade1 | And then anyone that comes across and does that (piece of software which leeches your site) is in violation of your site's terms of use and hey, why not throw in the DMCA |
| 02:24.56 | Legorol | What you are trying to say is that it's reasonable for a site to expect that: |
| 02:25.01 | ScytheBlade1 | It applies to everything, right? ;D |
| 02:25.07 | Legorol | - you use only "proper" webbrowsers |
| 02:25.14 | Legorol | - you do the downloading manually, and not automate it |
| 02:26.08 | kd3 | wait... wait... are we back to wowmatrix again? |
| 02:26.08 | Legorol | Not to mention that if you can leech directly without ever touching a page that mentions the site's ToS, you never accepted the ToS in the first place ;-) |
| 02:26.08 | ScytheBlade1 | kd3: yup |
| 02:26.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Legorol: someone did. And then someone broke the ToS by creating the program. You're not suing the users, you're suing the author. |
| 02:26.20 | kd3 | I'm against the site just because of the spamming of my sticky |
| 02:26.26 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 02:27.06 | Kajas | Dylanm: As for creating a 'progress' bar of sorts, is there anywhere I can get information regarding the use of it? |
| 02:27.28 | Legorol | ScytheBlade1: simplified analogy: you buy a book, which on page 1 says that you may not read the book by jumping directly to certain pages, only by reading through from page 1. |
| 02:27.40 | Legorol | But if you jump to page 100 without going to page 1, ever, you never read/accepted what's there. |
| 02:28.00 | ScytheBlade1 | That's great, but you can't jump to page 100 on a webpage without knowing page 1. |
| 02:28.00 | kd3 | "ignorance of the law is no excuse"? |
| 02:28.18 | Corrodias | it is justification |
| 02:28.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Someone, somewhere, found page one (home page), which lead to page two (addon page) which lead to page three (download link) |
| 02:28.48 | ScytheBlade1 | You can't skip from 1 to 3 on a website - someone MUST have read page 1 and 2 before |
| 02:29.10 | kd3 | thing is (gonna play devil's advocate for a sec too)... what about google? |
| 02:29.18 | ScytheBlade1 | haha |
| 02:29.20 | Hirsute | The conversation gets interesting in that ToS's and EULA's have not yet been tested in court, and there's a large body of people who believe that when they are, they won't hold up. |
| 02:29.21 | Legorol | so, the person that got to page 3, discloses the URL for that to someone else |
| 02:29.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Devil's advocate wins |
| 02:29.41 | Legorol | Hirsute: that's a popular misconception. Many software EULAs have been tested in court. |
| 02:29.49 | Legorol | I don't know about website ToS-s, that's relatively new. |
| 02:30.00 | Hirsute | I'm not aware of any, though I must admit that I've not watched it in a few years. |
| 02:30.10 | kd3 | all hail GPL court victories |
| 02:30.32 | Hirsute | Interesting, I'll have to do some reading this summer |
| 02:33.09 | Kajas | The 'COMBAT_LOG_EVENT_UNFILTERED' function, is there any documentation on the return values, or is it one of those trial-and-error ordeals? |
| 02:33.19 | Corrodias | some people get pretty gung-ho about an author's rights to limit accessibility and use of their stuff |
| 02:33.20 | dylanm | On the wiki. |
| 02:33.25 | kd3 | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_COMBAT_LOG_EVENT |
| 02:33.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Legorol: yeah |
| 02:33.31 | Corrodias | i wish i hadn't missed the beginning of the discussion |
| 02:33.34 | Kajas | wowwiki, *goes to homepage* |
| 02:33.37 | Kajas | must've missed it |
| 02:34.03 | kd3 | API browsing on the wiki is more black magic than anything else |
| 02:35.02 | Hirsute | So, there's a project being worked on that I can't recall the name of, but it appeared to be a similar pan-site project. The major difference being that I believe they have a specific xml format the site needs to make available to be included, making participation voluntary. I assume people are comfortable with this, yes? |
| 02:35.13 | kd3 | thankfully the portal helps a lot. |
| 02:35.17 | Hirsute | I've seen talk of it around a few channels here. |
| 02:35.23 | *** join/#wowuidev digmouse (n=whhao198@121.229.137.78) |
| 02:36.53 | Lopeppeppy | Hirsute, your description is far too vague. Give links to the project, and individuals can go view and decide for themselves. |
| 02:37.19 | ScytheBlade1 | What Lopeppeppy said - we've got no clue what you're talking about, lol |
| 02:37.27 | Hirsute | Lopeppeppy: Looking right now. |
| 02:41.23 | Lopeppeppy | Even then, I doubt an opinion given off the top of our heads would necessarily be what the final outcome is, after our own careful research etc. |
| 02:41.57 | Hirsute | Obviously |
| 02:43.48 | Lopeppeppy | Level grinding holy/disc preeest = looooong. |
| 02:44.22 | Corrodias | i'd like something that can update my addons for me, but it sounds like an unattainable dream |
| 02:45.13 | Corrodias | of course, hosts aren't free. too bad it can't be a paid service. |
| 02:49.35 | Corrodias | well, if i still played WoW, i'd want that |
| 02:59.12 | Hirsute | The project I was thinking of was Project Syndication, but it isn't what I thought it was, initially. |
| 03:22.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Mike-N-Go (n=MikeNGoS@64.193.93.197) |
| 03:22.24 | Shirik | whoo, mother down too |
| 03:22.31 | Shirik | first kill of mother on mother's day |
| 03:22.34 | Shirik | fun times |
| 03:23.54 | dylanm | Haha. |
| 03:24.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Which bar is is possession bar? Say for Mind Control, [actionbar:X] - what would my X be? |
| 03:24.32 | dylanm | Uh, what are you doing? |
| 03:24.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Using Goose to try and get my MainMenuBar to pop up when I'm possessing another unit |
| 03:25.31 | *** join/#wowuidev MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 03:25.31 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v MentalPower] by ChanServ |
| 03:26.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Hmm, looks like it's [bonusbar:5] |
| 03:26.05 | ScytheBlade1 | But that won't work sadly |
| 03:28.40 | dylanm | Goose? |
| 03:31.20 | Kajas | If I wanted to find out how much damage was sent to player as a total, how would I go about grabbing that? Trying to mess around with progress bars and damages (bar decreases as player takes damage until bar is depleted) |
| 03:32.48 | dylanm | Actually |
| 03:32.57 | dylanm | You may be able to get by using UNIT_COMBAT |
| 03:33.44 | Kajas | Kinda like: ProgressBar %= (SetValue - DmgTaken)/SetValue |
| 03:33.48 | ScytheBlade1 | dylanm: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info7160-Goose.html |
| 03:34.29 | ScytheBlade1 | AH-ha, I got it |
| 03:34.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Had to add show; hide to it |
| 03:34.41 | dylanm | Kajas: http://www.wowwiki.com/Events/U |
| 03:34.53 | dylanm | This is what the UI uses to show combat text and such. |
| 03:35.00 | dylanm | But it should capture all damage without much fuss. |
| 03:35.09 | dylanm | You'll want to take the fourth argument. |
| 03:35.17 | dylanm | For the appropriate unit, of course. |
| 03:35.37 | Kajas | How would I capture that? |
| 03:36.50 | Kajas | Still trying to grasp this.. sorry for the indunation of questions, lol |
| 03:37.04 | Kajas | but I really do appreciate all the help you guys offer up |
| 03:39.10 | Kajas | Actually.. is there a good addon I can grab to see this in action? |
| 03:39.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Kajas: do you have any existing code? |
| 03:40.48 | Kajas | Writing it from scratch.. basically just want it to dump damage as DEFAULT_CHAT_WINDOW:AddMessage() function |
| 03:41.07 | Kajas | to get a feel for how to hook onto functions and grab data from said function |
| 03:41.14 | Kajas | while I wait for the book Tuesday |
| 03:42.13 | Shirik | so you know what sucks about dkp? |
| 03:42.32 | Shirik | you get all excited on days like today where you get 60 instead of your normal 20 or so because you downed two new bosses |
| 03:42.33 | Lopeppeppy | Not having the highest score. |
| 03:42.39 | Shirik | until you realize that everyone ELSE got 60 too |
| 03:42.52 | Shirik | oh, no, I never have the highest score |
| 03:43.00 | Shirik | I actually have a problem staying positive |
| 03:43.07 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: does your DKP system suck horribly bad though? |
| 03:43.15 | Shirik | which is amusing because I run the dkp site and people keep claiming I'm pulling the numbers up |
| 03:43.25 | Shirik | no, actually. We use a very interesting system that seems to work very well |
| 03:43.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Kajas: I'd paste this code but the pastey site is being amazingly slow |
| 03:43.33 | Shirik | lots of custom code :) |
| 03:43.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: lol, I remember now |
| 03:43.57 | dylanm | Kajas: Trying to figure out the best way to accomplish what you're looking to do here. |
| 03:44.11 | Kajas | Greatly appreciated guys |
| 03:44.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: the one I'm on now -sucks-. 4 DKP a night, items are 15 DKP for T5 instances, 30 DKP for T6 instances. Some people have over 300 DKP. |
| 03:44.17 | Shirik | yeah you remember when I was complaining about mysqli's inability to do multiple queries intermixed |
| 03:44.39 | Shirik | we go by a formula based on item level for purchasing |
| 03:44.54 | dylanm | http://pastebin.com/ works. |
| 03:44.55 | Shirik | each night you get 6 dkp for a farm boss, 10 dkp for a non-farm boss, 30 dkp for a new kill |
| 03:45.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Kajas: http://pastebin.com/m7bbfc4dc |
| 03:45.11 | ScytheBlade1 | dylanm: yeah, just used it instead |
| 03:45.15 | Shirik | after 8 weeks, any dkp you earned or spent is undone |
| 03:45.29 | ScytheBlade1 | That's a rolling timeframe, right? |
| 03:45.30 | Shirik | so if you gained 30 dkp 8 weeks ago today, you lose 30 dkp |
| 03:45.41 | Shirik | if you purchased a 60dkp item 8 weeks ago today, you gain 60 dkp |
| 03:45.42 | Shirik | yup |
| 03:45.43 | ScytheBlade1 | ... I realy like that concept |
| 03:45.48 | Shirik | it works very well |
| 03:45.50 | ScytheBlade1 | *really |
| 03:46.00 | Shirik | we had one problem where the old guy who left our guild was running our dkp site |
| 03:46.05 | ScytheBlade1 | heh |
| 03:46.05 | Shirik | and decided to delete the database |
| 03:46.06 | ScytheBlade1 | That'd do it |
| 03:46.25 | Shirik | so what we decided to do is, since we had the totals, just do 10% declining every week for 10 weeks, then continue with the normal schedule |
| 03:46.45 | Shirik | so for example, http://li23-154.members.linode.com/viewmember.php?name=Kimina |
| 03:47.05 | Shirik | you'll see my dkp declining by week at a rate of 10% |
| 03:47.32 | Legorol | I have a raiding question, for anyone familiar with the Karathress encounter |
| 03:47.37 | Shirik | cron jobs ftw |
| 03:47.37 | Legorol | Especially if you are a healer |
| 03:47.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Legorol: shoot |
| 03:47.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: win |
| 03:47.50 | Shirik | Legorol: sup |
| 03:47.55 | Legorol | How many healers do you use for that fight, and what do you usually assign them on? |
| 03:47.58 | Lopeppeppy | Legorol, remind me which one is Karathress, and then shoot. |
| 03:48.04 | ScytheBlade1 | Lopeppeppy: Fathom-Lord |
| 03:48.08 | Legorol | SSC, 4 mobs, pull them in 4 corners |
| 03:48.13 | Lopeppeppy | The naga with all the advisors. |
| 03:48.18 | Legorol | yup |
| 03:48.19 | Lopeppeppy | PM incoming. |
| 03:48.31 | Shirik | I think we just have 1 for each guy, then 3 for the guy on FLK |
| 03:48.44 | Shirik | one of the 3 is one of the 1 on each guy |
| 03:48.50 | Legorol | I'm interested in everything: how many and what type of tanks, which corner do you pull which mobs to, how many hunters do how many MD-s, who picks up the pet, |
| 03:48.51 | Shirik | ow, that didn't make any sense |
| 03:48.57 | Legorol | but most importantly: how many healers on what duties |
| 03:49.00 | Shirik | eh, I really don't know that fight detailed enough unfortunately |
| 03:49.13 | Shirik | for that one I really just know my job |
| 03:49.22 | Kajas | ScythBlade: Thanks! |
| 03:49.27 | Legorol | Shirik: what's your job usually? |
| 03:49.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Kajas: sure |
| 03:49.37 | Shirik | I'm healing the tank that's on the hunter |
| 03:49.41 | Shirik | then after he's down |
| 03:49.52 | ScytheBlade1 | Kajas: note how the "unit, action, " etc line corresponds to the wiki page on the UNIT_COMBAT event |
| 03:49.56 | Shirik | I go over to help heal FLK and take.... whatever that thing is that he shoots out |
| 03:50.24 | Shirik | sorry, we're a bit past SSC now my memory's not serving me well |
| 03:53.01 | Kajas | Scythe: right, and you're assigning it the value of "..." which I'm assuming is all the variables passed by the UNIT_COMBAT event |
| 03:53.22 | Shirik | Kajas: It would be the first value in that tuple |
| 03:54.18 | Shirik | whoops |
| 03:54.20 | Kajas | Now would I have to add a section in the script area of the XML to point to the hook? |
| 03:54.22 | Shirik | I'm sorry, it would be the first 4 ) |
| 03:54.23 | Shirik | :) |
| 03:54.56 | Kajas | or is that taken care of with the RegisterEvent call |
| 03:55.11 | Shirik | you can do that in XML or do it with a SetScript call |
| 03:55.22 | Shirik | in ScytheBlade1's code, that's done with SetScript |
| 03:56.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Kajas: paste your XML to a website and link us |
| 03:56.33 | Kajas | One think I'm not clear of is why are we declaring a new fram for this 'watcher'? Does everything take a frame to work on? |
| 03:57.06 | ScytheBlade1 | All events are tied to frames |
| 03:57.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Other than that there aren't any special requirements |
| 03:57.58 | Shirik | it's not visible Kajas |
| 03:58.04 | Shirik | but yes, you can't get an event without a frame |
| 04:00.03 | Kajas | XML: http://pastebin.com/d68213dfe ; LUA: http://pastebin.com/d18e42cc2 |
| 04:00.03 | krka | Kajas: Lua is not an acronym. It is a Portuguese word that means moon. |
| 04:01.41 | Kajas | the "HealMe" section is another attempt at understanding some of the other functions of the API and variables |
| 04:02.20 | Kajas | Those linese aren't commented out in the actual lua file, just marked them as such to separate them from what was done by ScytheBlade |
| 04:03.52 | ScytheBlade1 | Kajas: you can add the code in the <Scripts> tag. <Scripts><OnEvent> local arg1, arg2, arg3, arg4, arg5 = ...; ChatFrame1:AddMessage(arg4) </OnEvent></Scripts> |
| 04:04.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Kajas: the <OnEvent> part, if defined, functions as a lua function that is called whenever an event registered to that frame is fired |
| 04:05.04 | ScytheBlade1 | Kajas: or, you can do what you have been doing: defining a function, and then running that function. Be sure to define the arguments as "self, event, ..." however. |
| 04:05.25 | Kajas | why self and event? |
| 04:05.40 | Kajas | event == the type of event being triggered? |
| 04:05.48 | ScytheBlade1 | event is a string for the event that was fired |
| 04:06.00 | ScytheBlade1 | If you register "UNIT_COMBAT", then event == "UNIT_COMBAT" |
| 04:06.09 | ScytheBlade1 | self is a reference to the frame |
| 04:06.26 | ScytheBlade1 | so <OnEvent> self:Show() </OnEvent> |
| 04:06.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Would show the frame whenever an event fired |
| 04:06.45 | ScytheBlade1 | ... is used to pass the arguments to the event around, as you already know |
| 04:08.11 | Kajas | and the <Scripts> section of the XML is an area that you could put LUA code in, or use the SetScript from within the LUA file to register the call? |
| 04:08.49 | ScytheBlade1 | SetScript("OnEvent", function_goes_here) == <Scripts><OnEvent> source for function_goes_here() goes here </OnEvent></Scripts> |
| 04:08.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Different ways to obtain the same thing. |
| 04:09.00 | *** part/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-72-230-38-163.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 04:09.07 | Kajas | Which one is 'cleaner' or more efficient? |
| 04:09.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Effeciency between the two is more or less |
| 04:09.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Effeciency between the two is more or less identical, and how 'clean' the code is depends on what you're doing :) |
| 04:10.58 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-226-120-56.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 04:11.47 | ScytheBlade1 | You can consider the <OnEvent> an alias for 'function _ (self, event, ...) lua(); code(); end; frame:SetScript("OnEvent", _)' |
| 04:13.26 | Kajas | Where the call for OnEvent is "frame:SetScript("OnEvent", dostuff)" , if I had multiple RegisterEvent() calls, how would I make sure the 'OnEvent' goes to the right registered handler [if that makes sense, lol] |
| 04:13.38 | ScytheBlade1 | There's only one handler |
| 04:13.57 | Kajas | i.e. In here we registered UNIT_COMBAT.. but if I also registered PLAYER_LOGIN |
| 04:14.07 | ScytheBlade1 | frame:RegisterEvent("EVENT_1); frame:RegisterEvent("EVENT_2"); frame:SetScript("OnEvent", EventHandler) |
| 04:14.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Take that |
| 04:14.41 | Kajas | So both events would use the same handler? |
| 04:14.45 | ScytheBlade1 | You'd then define a function: function EventHandler(self, event, ...) if (event == "EVENT_1") then do_stuff() elseif (event == "EVENT_2") then do_stuff_2() end end |
| 04:14.52 | ScytheBlade1 | You have the event variable to use |
| 04:14.59 | Kajas | Ahh, that's where you determine how to handle it |
| 04:15.00 | ScytheBlade1 | You can tell which event is being fired and act accordingly |
| 04:15.05 | Duman | you distinguish the event in the hander |
| 04:15.11 | Duman | +l |
| 04:15.14 | ScytheBlade1 | heh |
| 04:15.38 | Kajas | the RegisterEvent just causes the "OnEvent" to fire |
| 04:15.51 | ScytheBlade1 | No, it registers the event to the frame |
| 04:15.54 | Kajas | and you compare the 'event' variable with what you have set to send it to the proper store |
| 04:16.03 | ScytheBlade1 | When the event fires, it runs the function defined in OnEvent |
| 04:16.11 | ScytheBlade1 | But you have the basic idea, yeah |
| 04:16.26 | Kajas | cool :) |
| 04:16.54 | Kajas | Does lua support switch<-->case conditionals? |
| 04:17.01 | ScytheBlade1 | If your frame only has one event registered, then you don't worry about it. If you have multiple events registered, then you play with the event variable and have at it. |
| 04:17.13 | ScytheBlade1 | Uhh I really wouldn't know, but someone here does |
| 04:17.25 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm pretty sure it does not |
| 04:18.04 | *** join/#wowuidev deltron (i=ryan@24-207-196-144.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 04:18.05 | Kajas | such as switch(event){case Event1: doStuff, case Event2: noAct} |
| 04:18.07 | Kajas | ahh, ok |
| 04:19.37 | Kajas | going to pick your knowledge one more time.. how can I find out when a buff is put on a player, and decipher which buff it was |
| 04:19.56 | MentalPower | Kajas: no switch in Lua |
| 04:20.02 | ScytheBlade1 | You'd find the event that fires when a buff is gained, and check it out :) |
| 04:20.17 | ScytheBlade1 | I honestly don't know off the top of my head which event that would be. Check the wiki for a complete listing. |
| 04:20.21 | Kajas | Cool *goes to the API site* |
| 04:20.23 | MentalPower | you can either do cascading if statements or do a table with your event -> handler mappings |
| 04:20.24 | *** join/#wowuidev dylanm (n=dylanm@c-98-224-225-196.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 04:20.25 | Kajas | And thanks MentalPower |
| 04:20.53 | ScytheBlade1 | hahahah win @ xkcd |
| 04:20.55 | MentalPower | cascading ifs is better if you have <10 events to dispatch |
| 04:21.16 | MentalPower | whereas a table will be better fo >=10 events |
| 04:22.01 | Kajas | lol, I'm getting more and more anxious for that book to get here |
| 04:22.12 | ScytheBlade1 | It's a good book, I've got a copy next to me |
| 04:22.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Great reference |
| 04:22.30 | MentalPower | PiL? the manual? both? |
| 04:22.39 | ScytheBlade1 | WoW Programming ;) |
| 04:22.45 | Kajas | the one on this rooms greeting |
| 04:23.07 | Kajas | bought it from amazon as soon as I found this place today |
| 04:23.23 | MentalPower | lol |
| 04:23.26 | MentalPower | three strikes |
| 04:23.31 | ScytheBlade1 | ;) |
| 04:23.32 | MentalPower | I still haven't gotten mine yet |
| 04:23.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Where do you live? You in the EU? |
| 04:23.43 | MentalPower | it *should* be in the mail |
| 04:23.50 | MentalPower | Puerto Rico |
| 04:23.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Ha |
| 04:23.55 | ScytheBlade1 | So no ;) |
| 04:24.00 | MentalPower | nop |
| 04:24.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Worse, further away ;) |
| 04:24.18 | Kajas | bought my with 1-Day UPS shipping. Should have it Tuesday the 13th |
| 04:24.21 | MentalPower | haven't been to EU yet |
| 04:24.33 | MentalPower | Kajas: why not tomorrow? |
| 04:24.42 | ScytheBlade1 | MentalPower: UPS doesn't ship on the weekends |
| 04:24.47 | Kajas | Today's Sunday.. nothing processes on Sunday |
| 04:24.48 | MentalPower | ah, granted |
| 04:25.22 | Kajas | Although I've been suprised by UPS before and gotten a 1-day shipment on the same day.. depending on where it's comming from and when they get the shipment |
| 04:25.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Yup, same |
| 04:25.46 | Kajas | I just don't count on it and when it happens, it's a nice suprise |
| 04:26.03 | ScytheBlade1 | Have to order it early and they have to ship it out early |
| 04:26.38 | Kajas | Yep. Hoping they send it out when UPS opens at 6am.. maybe I'll see it tomorrow night.....maybe |
| 04:29.25 | *** join/#wowuidev ncd|Aileen (n=Dave@213.216.23.2) |
| 04:47.38 | Kajas | Don't mean to keep hounding you guys.. but what are those progressBar's called (such as the casting bar and such)? Trying to find it in WoWWiki to try using it.. but not seeing it. |
| 04:50.03 | digmouse | seems casting bar is CastingBarFrame |
| 04:50.16 | dylanm | Kajas: Just the frame type? StatusBar. |
| 05:03.02 | Kajas | If an addon doesn't have a GUI, is the XML file nessisary? |
| 05:04.51 | ScytheBlade1 | You can do an addon without XML and still have a GUI |
| 05:05.14 | Kajas | ? |
| 05:05.25 | Kajas | Okay.. now I'm confused.. what's the purpose in the XML file then? |
| 05:05.29 | ScytheBlade1 | local frame = CreateFrame("frame") -- look, a frame! |
| 05:05.40 | ScytheBlade1 | The XML was initially required by addons to work, it was the only way to create frames |
| 05:05.46 | Kajas | ahhh |
| 05:05.51 | ScytheBlade1 | Since WoW was released, we've been given CreateFrame() and friends |
| 05:05.55 | Kajas | still supported for backwards compatability |
| 05:06.04 | ScytheBlade1 | So that the XML is no longer strictly 100% required, but can be nice for some things |
| 05:06.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Actually, the stock UI uses XML exclusively for frames. There's nothing wrong with it |
| 05:06.26 | Kajas | k, going to try this dmg thing again but without the xml file |
| 05:06.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Using pure lua is just another way to do it |
| 05:07.17 | Kajas | with the xml, it wasn't showing the information in the chat window :\ |
| 05:07.46 | Kajas | trying without it to see if I goofed anything up inadvertently |
| 05:08.19 | Kajas | hmm.. nope.. not showing dmg taken |
| 05:12.11 | Kajas | hmm.. nope.. still not showing |
| 05:19.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@cpe-72-230-38-163.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 05:19.37 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 05:20.09 | *** join/#wowuidev dylanm (n=dylanm@c-98-224-225-196.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 05:21.01 | Kajas | wb you two |
| 05:22.41 | Kirov | Actually, default bliz UI does use CreateFrame |
| 05:23.17 | Kirov | The lines for the taxi frame have a virtual template in XML, but then are actually created via CreateFrame |
| 05:27.30 | dylanm | It seems as if they're more likely to do that if they need a variable amount of frames and they don't interact with stuff outside the FrameXML. |
| 05:28.01 | dylanm | Like, buffs are created as needed but tooltip lines aren't. But maybe that's a bad guess. |
| 05:31.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Mr_Rabies2|away (n=Mr_Rabie@adsl-066-156-082-132.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 05:34.33 | dylanm | Kajas: How's your stuff? |
| 05:39.39 | Kajas | Not working :( |
| 05:42.31 | Kajas | LUA: --local frame = CreateFrame("HealMe_frame") |
| 05:42.31 | Kajas | --frame:RegisterEvent("UNIT_COMBAT") |
| 05:42.31 | Kajas | function doStuff(self, event, ...) |
| 05:42.31 | Kajas | DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Event") |
| 05:42.31 | Kajas | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:42.31 | krka | Kajas: Lua is not an acronym. It is a Portuguese word that means moon. |
| 05:42.32 | Kajas | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:42.34 | Kajas | end |
| 05:42.36 | Kajas | --frame:SetScript("OnEvent", doStuff) |
| 05:42.38 | Kajas | ... my bad |
| 05:42.45 | Kajas | ...so sorry |
| 05:43.38 | Kajas | LUA: http://pastebin.com/d7533abe XML: http://pastebin.com/d3479b2e9 |
| 05:43.51 | Kajas | That's what I have.. and the "Event" text is shown, but not the 'amount' text |
| 05:48.35 | dylanm | Kajas: Your OnEvent isn't passing along the information. |
| 05:49.29 | Kajas | lol.. that's a prime example of looking too hard for the problem |
| 05:49.31 | Kajas | thanks :) |
| 05:49.41 | dylanm | So I'd try uh |
| 05:49.44 | Kajas | just need to add 'self, event, ...' to that call |
| 05:49.49 | Kajas | right? |
| 05:50.56 | dylanm | Well I'm not sure. I really stopped using XML as soon as that became an option so I'm not sure if you need that or just doStuff(...). |
| 05:53.49 | dylanm | Do doStuff(self, event, ...), yeah. |
| 05:57.26 | Kajas | Okay, so that worked. Now, reading the wiki page it shows that arg1 is the UID of 'entity'. After having the game print that out it shows that it's the mob (after using 'if HealMe_unit ~= "player" then print' filter) |
| 05:58.05 | Kajas | Does this particular event only fire when the "owning player" (best way I can put it) is engaged in combat, or will it also fire if you're near an on-going battle? |
| 05:59.36 | dylanm | The event is designed for the game's unit frames... I imagine you'll get events for your target even if you aren't the one wailing on him. |
| 06:00.52 | dylanm | It sounds as if you're only interested in cases where the unit is "player" anyway. |
| 06:01.22 | Kajas | right, I only want to know the damage being done to the player |
| 06:02.14 | Kajas | so that I can use that information to decrease a 'cast bar' type of indicator.. showing a depleting bar until it's all gone.. an example: |
| 06:02.38 | Kajas | I start the bar with 500 points.. each time player takes damage, the bar will decrease as that 500 lowers until it's all gone |
| 06:02.59 | dylanm | Sure. |
| 06:03.11 | Kajas | I've still yet to figure out the bar part, but just taking it one step at a time |
| 06:03.38 | dylanm | Sure, get the data collection down and then worry about the display. I don't think it will be too hard though. |
| 06:04.06 | Kajas | :) still impressed with the amount of help I've gotten in here |
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| 06:11.28 | Mike-N-Go | ~seen Wachunga |
| 06:11.30 | purl | Mike-N-Go: i haven't seen 'wachunga' |
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| 06:29.36 | Kajas | Got an error that states "HealMe:OnEvent Line 1: attempt to call global 'doStuff' (a nil value) .... but there's instructions in that call.. what would be my first course of action to troubleshoot this? |
| 06:31.56 | dylanm | What did you change? |
| 06:32.39 | Mike-N-Go | Help, the wowi forums is clamming Mike-N-Go is not permitted to post on it. It says "Welcome, Mike-N-Go." on the top of the page, so I know I am logged in. |
| 06:34.48 | Mike-N-Go | Any admins here to assist me with said problem? |
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| 06:38.43 | Kajas | LUA: http://pastebin.com/d11106466 ; XML: http://pastebin.com/d5272c78e |
| 06:38.43 | krka | Kajas: Lua is not an acronym. It is a Portuguese word that means moon. |
| 06:39.01 | Kajas | I added a section for the unfiltered combat log to see what data was held in it |
| 06:39.20 | Kajas | now I keep getting an error that doStuff is a nil value |
| 06:39.31 | Tekkub | xml, barf |
| 06:39.47 | Kajas | heh, first day.. |
| 06:39.51 | Kajas | <<< Rookie |
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| 06:43.39 | dylanm | Well, an unrelated issue: testing for equality is ==. |
| 06:46.47 | dylanm | But it should be able to find the function. |
| 06:47.20 | Kajas | odd thing is, if I revert it the was it was.. it works fine |
| 06:47.57 | Kajas | correcting the syntax error of the equality and trying again.. may try breaking up the elseif statement and do 2 separate 'if' statements |
| 06:48.19 | dylanm | They're exclusive cases. Not sure why you'd do that. |
| 06:50.05 | dylanm | lua> function () if a=1 then end end |
| 06:50.05 | lua_bot | dylanm: luabot:1: '<name>' expected near '(' |
| 06:51.13 | dylanm | lua> function a() if b=1 then end end |
| 06:51.13 | lua_bot | dylanm: luabot:1: 'then' expected near '=' |
| 06:51.29 | dylanm | Yeah. See it should throw up on such a statement immediately. |
| 06:51.55 | Kajas | yeah, all I did was correct the equality check and it worked.... go figure, lol |
| 06:54.48 | Kajas | wow.. a lot of info in that Unfiltered Combat event.. some of which I have no clue what are, lol |
| 06:57.46 | dylanm | http://www.wowwiki.com/API_COMBAT_LOG_EVENT |
| 06:58.06 | dylanm | Enjoy! |
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| 07:05.52 | Kajas | O.o Thanks! |
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| 07:07.13 | Kajas | hmm... for that timestamp (arg1) it's shown as: 1210575882.351 .. think that's in seconds? lol |
| 07:08.25 | tlund | Kajas: yes. |
| 07:09.03 | Kajas | From what starting point though.. in otherwords, as if I wanted to change that to a practical date/time stamp.. |
| 07:09.10 | tlund | Kajas: 1 jan 1970 |
| 07:09.17 | Kajas | cool, thanks :) |
| 07:09.25 | tlund | tlund@eight:~$ date ; date +%s |
| 07:09.25 | tlund | Mon May 12 09:09:19 CEST 2008 |
| 07:09.25 | tlund | 1210576159 |
| 07:09.47 | tlund | there is strtime or something, to do the conversion i guess |
| 07:10.08 | tlund | too tired to remember the correct name, sorry :) |
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| 07:12.29 | Kajas | np :) |
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| 07:34.30 | Mike-N-Go | Welcome back, Esamynn. |
| 07:34.46 | Mike-N-Go | Long time, no hunt. |
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| 08:08.57 | silv | ShadowWolf, wat? |
| 08:09.04 | ShadowWolf | I'm sorry.. mistaken identity |
| 08:09.09 | silv | :D |
| 08:09.29 | silv | bb then, hav a nice day |
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| 08:39.56 | ShadowWolf | Is it possible to find out how much dmg a buff (such as PowerWord:Shield) will absorb before failing.. taking talent points into consideration and all? |
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| 09:25.29 | Teomyr | does anyone have an idea how you could get an unit GUID from a nameplate frame? |
| 09:25.56 | durcyn | don't believe you can, combatlog and UnitGUID are the only sources |
| 09:26.20 | Teomyr | probably, yeah :/ |
| 09:27.08 | Teomyr | using names might be an option, but not for mobs with the same name obviously. could also work with mouseover, but that's probably very buggy |
| 09:29.55 | durcyn | still, firing UnitGUID("mouseover") on UPDATE_MOUSEOVER_UNIT is as close as you're going to get to collecting GUIDs from WorldFrame |
| 09:31.53 | Teomyr | that's what i feared; not a reliable source since these assignments might change at any time |
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| 09:32.21 | Teomyr | ah well, have to find a way to work around this. thanks for the help :) |
| 09:39.15 | [Liquidor] | Good morning everyone. |
| 09:41.11 | Teomyr | hello! |
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| 11:28.36 | Adys | http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/11/google-is-a-malware-site-says-yahoo/ |
| 11:32.12 | mikma | googleware |
| 11:33.20 | Kirov | heh |
| 11:33.24 | Kirov | they're kinda' right though |
| 11:33.57 | Kirov | google can link to malware sites. google usually warns the user that the link is bad, but the link still exists |
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| 11:35.10 | cladhaire | well obviously yahoo does too |
| 11:35.14 | cladhaire | so that argument doesn't make sense |
| 11:35.20 | cladhaire | if they think google is a malware site, but links to it |
| 11:36.35 | Adys | Kirov, if that was the case that would warn for all the pages of google search, and also msn search etc |
| 11:37.11 | Adys | also malware sites are mostly hidden from google search results, they leave out only the lesser spam in results with warnings :) |
| 11:37.25 | Kirov | teh internets r malwarz! |
| 11:37.46 | nevcairiel | isnt the firefox3 "bad site" warning based on the google malware database? |
| 11:38.04 | cladhaire | yes |
| 11:38.07 | Adys | aue |
| 11:38.09 | Adys | aye |
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| 11:38.26 | Adys | Irrelevant and about damn time, btw: |
| 11:38.28 | Adys | Microsoft Active Server Pages (ASP)-style tags — the shorter version of the PHP tags — are no longer supported. To make sure this is not an issue for your scripts, verify that you aren't using the <% or %> tags in your PHP files. Replace them with <?php and ?>. |
| 11:38.57 | cladhaire | yay! |
| 11:39.01 | cladhaire | h8 <% %> |
| 11:39.14 | Adys | indeed |
| 11:41.36 | Zyuu | Google is great |
| 11:41.40 | Zyuu | and Firefox 3 even more so :D |
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| 11:44.29 | haste | I wonder if gecko ever will fix it's scrolling |
| 11:44.56 | Kirov | hmm? |
| 11:45.44 | haste | scrolling in firefox when there's objects with static position is horribly slow |
| 11:46.04 | Kirov | ah |
| 11:46.27 | haste | normally you just notice it, but increase the load on the system and it becomes a real pita |
| 11:47.34 | mikma | Death Grip -- This is the Death Knight's "taunt" ability. It also pulls the target to the Death Knight, forcing them to attack the Death Knight for a short amount of time. Yes, I said pulls the target; Blizzard is going to allow players to move mobs in the expansion both with Death Grip, and other knockback/pull abilities. This works on players too, so PvP balance ahoy! |
| 11:47.37 | Kirov | I would upgrade to ff3.0 except for my complete and utter reliance on all-in-one gestures |
| 11:47.41 | mikma | jedi-skills anyone? |
| 11:48.22 | haste | I'll switch away from firefox as soon as one of the webkit browsers are slightly more stable |
| 11:48.24 | Kirov | mikma - I'm more curious about the player pushing abilities |
| 11:48.59 | mikma | will be interesting in EoTS |
| 11:51.35 | JoshBorke | heh, would be interesting to push melee away in PvP |
| 11:51.54 | JoshBorke | especially if you could push them off of ledges |
| 11:52.16 | Kirov | if hunter scattershot included a push... yeah |
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| 12:05.19 | Fisker- | it's Fx Kirkburn |
| 12:05.23 | Fisker- | bah |
| 12:05.23 | Fisker- | kirov |
| 12:05.29 | Kirkburn | Rawr |
| 12:05.31 | Fisker- | you ruin my trolling |
| 12:05.43 | Kirkburn | And I'm the one who normally complains :P |
| 12:05.57 | Kirkburn | (about Fx and also your trolling ;) |
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| 13:11.43 | mikma | someone knows good lootlist-pages? (not wow-loot.com) |
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| 13:13.55 | Kaso | http://wow-loot.com/ ? |
| 13:20.49 | Drundia | be careful with eyes |
| 13:20.53 | zenzelezz | any Linux-savvy people around? |
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| 13:26.10 | Lunessa | ... station. |
| 13:26.24 | Industrial | Lunessa: wtf do you mean with station |
| 13:26.38 | Industrial | Lunessa: explain to me >_< im going nuts over it every time i see it |
| 13:26.39 | Lunessa | It's a reference to a movie. |
| 13:26.41 | Industrial | what does it MEAN |
| 13:26.49 | Industrial | okay. |
| 13:27.17 | Lunessa | http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101452/ |
| 13:27.56 | _rane | quick question |
| 13:28.18 | _rane | foo(GetItemInfo(123)); how do i get the first return value of GetItemInfo? |
| 13:28.48 | Polleke | _rane, select(1,GetItemInfo(123)) |
| 13:28.48 | Kaso | foo will be passed the first return value of getiteminfo |
| 13:28.59 | Polleke | and what Kaso says |
| 13:29.04 | Kaso | if you want any other you need to use select as above & |
| 13:29.06 | Kaso | ^ |
| 13:29.10 | Drundia | actually foo will be passed all return values |
| 13:29.27 | _rane | Drundia: exactly |
| 13:29.28 | Kaso | oh yeh, damn, ignore me, too much other languages |
| 13:29.41 | Drundia | how do you have foo defined? |
| 13:29.53 | Drundia | (list) always returns first value from list |
| 13:29.59 | _rane | it's in fact EquipItemByName |
| 13:30.03 | _rane | foo, that is.. |
| 13:30.23 | _rane | so, select it is? |
| 13:30.41 | _rane | tbh that takes too much space for a macro |
| 13:30.46 | Drundia | foo((GetItemInfo(123))); |
| 13:30.47 | Kaso | you can surround it with brackets if you want to just isolate the first reutnr |
| 13:30.48 | alestane | If you just want the first value exclusively, use an extra set of (). |
| 13:30.54 | _rane | okay, ty |
| 13:30.55 | alestane | Like Drundia just said. |
| 13:30.56 | Kaso | haha |
| 13:31.02 | Kaso | triple-anwsered |
| 13:32.36 | _rane | lua> tostring(2) |
| 13:32.37 | lua_bot | _rane: 2 |
| 13:33.25 | Kaso | you rarely need to tostring() on a number |
| 13:34.35 | _rane | a=123;b=321; is there a way to define those both local without writing local twice? |
| 13:34.49 | Kaso | local a,b = 123,321 |
| 13:34.50 | alestane | local a,b = 123, 321 |
| 13:34.55 | _rane | nice |
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| 15:09.59 | alestane | When CreateFrame generates a new frame, is that frame shown or hidden? |
| 15:10.21 | alestane | Assuming no template was used. |
| 15:10.38 | haste | shown |
| 15:11.36 | nevcairiel | i generally show it afterwards anyway |
| 15:11.38 | nevcairiel | just to be sure |
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| 15:19.16 | Adys | [13:48:22] <haste> I'll switch away from firefox as soon as one of the webkit browsers are slightly more stable |
| 15:19.18 | Adys | epiphany |
| 15:19.26 | Adys | (yea a few hours late) |
| 15:19.33 | haste | notice that I said webkit is stable |
| 15:19.43 | Adys | it's stable |
| 15:19.51 | Adys | or more like, i have yet to crash with it or anything alike |
| 15:20.07 | haste | might be a midori issue then |
| 15:20.13 | nevcairiel | Epiphany uses the gecko engine to render pages, how is the advantage over ff? :P |
| 15:20.19 | haste | not any more nevcairiel |
| 15:20.27 | haste | they started switcing a while ago |
| 15:20.34 | Adys | haste, midori sucks to the bone tbh |
| 15:20.43 | Adys | I cant even paste things right |
| 15:20.48 | nevcairiel | according to the gnome.org page about epiphany it still does, but *shrug :) |
| 15:21.03 | Adys | nevcairiel, its next version is going to be webkit powered |
| 15:21.17 | Adys | and there are a few builds with epiphany-webkit |
| 15:21.19 | haste | Adys: that's a webkit issue again tho' :p |
| 15:21.31 | Adys | how can pasting be a rendering issue? |
| 15:21.42 | Adys | eg how dont i have this problem in safari? :p |
| 15:21.43 | haste | you can paste, but not from the X11 selection |
| 15:21.56 | nevcairiel | whats so great about webkit? |
| 15:22.07 | Adys | its not about whats great about webkit |
| 15:22.10 | Adys | its what sucks about gecko |
| 15:22.20 | haste | yeh, scrolling in gecko :( |
| 15:22.30 | Adys | scrolling, lists.. |
| 15:22.43 | nevcairiel | tbh i havent had any real issues with gecko 1.9 |
| 15:22.51 | Adys | try gmail |
| 15:23.08 | zenzelezz | what about GMail? |
| 15:23.12 | haste | <insert load> + <slashdots comment thingy that moves with the scroll> |
| 15:23.42 | nevcairiel | got any real example link that could proof your point? :P |
| 15:23.49 | nevcairiel | i've been using gmail for ever without issues |
| 15:24.03 | Adys | scrolling with more than one iframe on the page, scrolling with a static background, scrolling with a background image size > 500x |
| 15:24.26 | Adys | all of them are broken, but good computers dont suffer |
| 15:24.28 | Adys | so they ignore it |
| 15:24.52 | zenzelezz | that explains it, never tried it on slow computers |
| 15:25.09 | zenzelezz | either way, I still like gecko |
| 15:25.11 | nevcairiel | you cannot fix hardware deficits with software :P |
| 15:25.18 | Adys | sure you can |
| 15:25.30 | Adys | scrolling in gecko is broken, i dont have this issue on other browsers |
| 15:25.57 | nevcairiel | i havent used a slow pc for a long time, so i dont care |
| 15:25.59 | nevcairiel | gecko runs fine |
| 15:26.19 | Adys | and yea zenzelezz I do too, but that doesnt change the fact the moz team should switch over to webkit *shrugs* |
| 15:26.34 | haste | not like they will :p |
| 15:26.36 | nevcairiel | who says that webkit is perfect? :P |
| 15:26.39 | zenzelezz | uhm, why? They developed Gecko, why ditch it? |
| 15:26.53 | Adys | because it's full of bugs and issues that won't get fixed |
| 15:27.05 | Adys | webkit has far less, and there's no other good engine around |
| 15:27.12 | Adys | (khtml will just get ditched too) |
| 15:27.30 | nevcairiel | webkit is just not in wide-spread use, errors will come up |
| 15:27.48 | zenzelezz | I've never looked close at webkit, only heard of it as a Mac thing (Safari); how does it compare to gecko on standards compatibility? |
| 15:28.00 | Adys | it passes acid3 nightly |
| 15:28.01 | Lunessa | So, because you don't like it, the mozilla teamshould throw away the last 8 years of their work? |
| 15:28.18 | Adys | Lunessa, not because i dont like it, because Im sane |
| 15:28.45 | nevcairiel | you could instead supply patches to gecko? :) |
| 15:28.54 | zenzelezz | there's one thing I would like improved in gecko(/Firefox), font rendering. I'm not sure why, but somehow Opera looks like it displays text more... pretty |
| 15:29.01 | Lunessa | Everyone makes that claim. It's not proof that you're correct. |
| 15:29.15 | nevcairiel | opera probably applys some font shading or something |
| 15:29.37 | zenzelezz | if Firefox was moved to Webkit but kept all addons and and extensions, I might consider it |
| 15:29.38 | Adys | nevcairiel, even if i did, in my entire life I couldn't fix everything that's wrong with gecko |
| 15:30.10 | Adys | when i say there's a good thousand major bugs that won't get fixed because they have other things to do Im serious |
| 15:30.44 | Adys | here |
| 15:30.44 | Adys | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4522 |
| 15:31.04 | Adys | ten year old soon |
| 15:31.43 | nevcairiel | in ten years 70 comments, cant be a major bug |
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| 15:32.11 | Adys | it's not major itself |
| 15:32.15 | Adys | but look at its dependencies |
| 15:32.47 | *** join/#wowuidev dylanm (n=dylanm@c-98-224-225-196.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 15:34.18 | nevcairiel | but i can only say what i said before, i've been using firefox from 1.0 up to the 3.0 nightlies as a user and a web developer, and i never found a thing that would make me abandon it. it will be a very long time until any webkit browser can replace the functionality and simplicity of firefox |
| 15:34.41 | Adys | I agree nev |
| 15:35.05 | Adys | What I'm saying is it's got a major, major room for improvement (ditching gecko) and doesn't make use of it |
| 15:35.38 | nevcairiel | from what i understand, webkit is nowhere near stabel enough to be used in a mainstream browser |
| 15:35.51 | Adys | safari is mainstream.. |
| 15:35.55 | dylanm | Wait, what's wrong with Gecko? |
| 15:35.57 | Gnarfoz | macs are not mainstream |
| 15:36.07 | Gnarfoz | so safari isn't, either |
| 15:36.07 | Adys | so? it has just as much share on pc |
| 15:36.11 | zenzelezz | out of curiosity only, would webkit allow extensions like Firebug to work just the same (with the highlighting, info, everything)? |
| 15:36.19 | Gnarfoz | yeah, since they forced it on iTunes users, lmao |
| 15:36.33 | Adys | it has a firebug zenzelezz yeah |
| 15:36.35 | Adys | forgot its name |
| 15:37.16 | Lunessa | ... is using IRC on a Mac. Plays WoW on a Mac. Makes a living doing tech support for Windows and Mac OS. Mac's are "mainstream" thank you very much. :P |
| 15:37.20 | zenzelezz | with all the same features? I rely on Firebug a lot at work |
| 15:37.45 | Adys | never tried it but afaik it can edit css, js, etc |
| 15:38.00 | Adys | brb |
| 15:38.38 | zenzelezz | Firebug is awesome in that you can hover your mouse over HTML elements and have their margins, padding. etc displayed overlayed on the page display, etc; in addition to modifying the CSS etc |
| 15:38.40 | Lopeppeppy | Lunessa, did you just admit/claim to be mainstream? *gentle poke* |
| 15:38.50 | dylanm | The web inspector is pretty nice. |
| 15:38.52 | Lunessa | No, just my hardware and OS. :P |
| 15:41.36 | dylanm | In Safari. I don't think it's on the level of Firebug in terms of... I don't think it's as convenient and you can't really edit with it. |
| 15:42.16 | Adys | the more people use it, the faster itll get developed :) |
| 15:42.31 | dylanm | But the display of the levels of style applied, the box layout, and the properties from each level of DOM inheritance... |
| 15:44.34 | dylanm | It doesn't really debug JS as far as I know. I mean you get errors and stuff. |
| 15:44.35 | Fisker- | nevcairiel it's Fx |
| 15:44.35 | Fisker- | hoho |
| 15:45.10 | dylanm | But for that you can use Drosera. |
| 15:46.16 | Gnarfoz | Lunessa: just because you're actually using/doing something doesn't make it mainstream. if I did base jumping, it wouldn't mainstream just because I do it :P |
| 15:46.23 | Lopeppeppy | Huzzah for dark chocolate. |
| 15:47.21 | Gnarfoz | damn, why are real RAID controllers still so expensive :\ |
| 15:48.28 | Lunessa | Gnarfoz: True, but I'm merely one example of many. Dismissing Mac users with a wave of your hand macs about as much sense as me dismissing Linux users in the same way... i.e. - not at all. |
| 15:48.43 | Gnarfoz | macs sense. |
| 15:50.35 | Cairenn | [interrupt] wow, cool pic! http://galacticcentral.org/imagebucket/volcano.jpg [/interrupt] |
| 15:50.39 | Gnarfoz | dismissing minorities with a wave of the hand is quite common, but this isn't about Mac users. I stand by my opinion: Safari is not mainstream |
| 15:51.01 | Gnarfoz | nice, is that 'digitally enhanced' |
| 15:51.28 | Lopeppeppy | Cairenn, that's beautiful. Thanks. |
| 15:51.37 | Gnarfoz | (I know what it is and how it happens, but the picture is showing it off quite a bit *too* perfectly) |
| 15:51.48 | Cairenn | no idea if it is or not |
| 15:51.49 | Cairenn | (2008-05-12 11:38:09) adashiel: This is very belated, but I finally found a larger picture of the lightning storm in the Chilean volcano: http://galacticcentral.org/imagebucket/volcano.jpg |
| 15:51.54 | Cairenn | ^^ is where I found it |
| 15:51.59 | Gnarfoz | hm |
| 15:52.09 | Kaso | oh, awesome ive wanted a high res of that |
| 15:52.31 | Kaso | though technically this is stealing, cos the website are selling the high res image of that >.< |
| 15:52.58 | nevcairiel | Maybe they just sell it without owning the exclusive rights? |
| 15:53.04 | Cairenn | didn't know that |
| 15:53.10 | Lunessa | Did anyone but me look at that and think he needed to do /readycheck since the boss had been pulled? |
| 15:53.29 | Kaso | im not sure, but i remeber when seeing the low-ress image someone linked to one of those image selling sites with the high |
| 15:53.49 | Kaso | someone has clearly bought it and put it up, but as nevcairiel says it could be within their rights to do that |
| 15:54.06 | Lopeppeppy | Not all image selling sites have the rights to what they "sell", and vice versa for free sites. |
| 15:54.16 | Gnarfoz | why would you do a readycheck after pulling something oO |
| 15:54.32 | Lopeppeppy | For the same reason you pull without one -- to be a jerk. |
| 15:55.04 | Gnarfoz | err, you be the jerk, I rather lead my raids sanely, k |
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| 15:55.22 | Kaso | http://www.upinewspictures.com/Production/PhotoGroupView.aspx?pbid=4&msa=1&pgid=16117421 |
| 15:55.27 | Kaso | ^^ the site selling that image |
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| 15:56.46 | Lunessa | I was just making a light-hearted joke. *shrug* |
| 15:57.02 | Lopeppeppy | *hug* |
| 15:58.02 | Cide | Lunessa: that's a bit disturbing |
| 15:58.15 | Cide | Lunessa: I like it :) |
| 15:58.16 | Zyuu | woo blizzcon 08 http://news.curse.com/details/9701/ |
| 15:58.24 | Lunessa | That I might be light hearted? |
| 15:58.31 | Gnarfoz | nm, I like jokes that are either related to reality |
| 15:58.35 | Gnarfoz | or make sense :D |
| 15:58.37 | Fisker- | Diablo 3 Zyuu ! |
| 15:58.38 | Cide | Lunessa: I liked the fact that you thought of a ready check |
| 15:58.49 | Gnarfoz | yay blizzcon :< |
| 15:58.56 | *** part/#wowuidev charon (n=thomas@84-75-156-10.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:59.23 | Lunessa | I lead a 75% pug kara run last night. /readycheck was critical to our minimal success. |
| 15:59.39 | Fisker- | Zyuu btw |
| 15:59.43 | Kyahx | I was in a pug kara last night, constant readchecks were super annoying |
| 15:59.44 | Kyahx | :P |
| 15:59.47 | Fisker- | were you at that death knight stuff with blizzard? |
| 16:00.07 | Zyuu | that was Kevin |
| 16:00.09 | Zyuu | (Kody) |
| 16:00.13 | Fisker- | :I |
| 16:00.16 | Zyuu | I'm located in Sweden |
| 16:00.19 | Zyuu | and he's in SF |
| 16:00.20 | Fisker- | you fail |
| 16:00.25 | Fisker- | you should be located in denmark |
| 16:00.58 | Lunessa | Kyahx: ZOMG you weren't the n00b-tard hunter who did 36% of his sub--sub-par DPS with Multi-Shot were you? :P |
| 16:01.17 | Kyahx | no :) my kara cleared everything, haha |
| 16:01.22 | Kyahx | and I have 6 pieces of gear >.> |
| 16:01.25 | Kyahx | I got* |
| 16:01.38 | zenzelezz | can 32-bit Linux utilize 4 GB RAM, or do you need 64-bit there too? |
| 16:01.50 | Fisker- | ... |
| 16:01.51 | Fisker- | you fail |
| 16:01.57 | zenzelezz | all the time |
| 16:02.04 | zenzelezz | which is why I rely on others |
| 16:02.21 | Fisker- | The only hope you have is that Linux have PAE functionality |
| 16:02.24 | haste | zenzelezz: you can use up to 3.6 or so without the kernel workaround |
| 16:02.26 | Lunessa | Kyahx: Good. :) |
| 16:02.35 | Fisker- | ITS 4GB OMG |
| 16:02.39 | Cairenn | Zyuu: so where did you guys get that news report? |
| 16:02.46 | haste | zenzelezz: the overhead of the workaround is less than the gain from the extra memory however |
| 16:03.05 | zenzelezz | haste: really? |
| 16:03.28 | haste | yes |
| 16:03.38 | haste | give me a sec and I'll see if I can find the mailing list post |
| 16:04.21 | Fisker- | i just hate you haste |
| 16:04.25 | haste | http://kerneltrap.org/node/2450 |
| 16:04.33 | haste | close enough :p |
| 16:04.33 | Fisker- | all the people who keep referring to it as the 3,25GB problem, etc. |
| 16:04.36 | zenzelezz | haste: thanks :) |
| 16:05.39 | Fisker- | by tomorrow i'll have 23000g :o |
| 16:06.12 | Fisker- | and you still won't get any haste |
| 16:06.12 | Cairenn | Zyuu: ^^ |
| 16:06.13 | Fisker- | :o |
| 16:06.18 | haste | Fisker-: >:( |
| 16:06.28 | Zyuu | GamesPress Cairenn, via Blizzard |
| 16:06.37 | Zyuu | cant link to those releases |
| 16:06.46 | Zyuu | since it's pw protected |
| 16:06.53 | Cairenn | *nod* |
| 16:07.32 | Fisker- | i'm on the valve pressletter |
| 16:07.33 | Fisker- | weee |
| 16:07.43 | Fisker- | except that they usually put their press releases on the site first :D |
| 16:07.57 | Cairenn | usually ... |
| 16:08.31 | zenzelezz | It's probably not a problem... probably |
| 16:09.17 | Fisker- | Cairenn all the time then |
| 16:09.32 | Cairenn | no no, that was just me agreeing with you |
| 16:09.44 | Cairenn | saying that they normally do, and surprised to see it showing up elsewhere first |
| 16:10.39 | *** join/#wowuidev ven (n=ven@i59F566F2.versanet.de) |
| 16:10.47 | zenzelezz | why must PartitionMagic always do something to make me think it has failed, when it actually has not? |
| 16:11.20 | Cide | it's up on http://www.blizzard.co.uk/press/080512.shtml |
| 16:11.51 | nevcairiel | oh |
| 16:12.19 | Cairenn | excellent |
| 16:14.33 | zenzelezz | is the hyperactive hamster (or whatever it was) going this year? |
| 16:14.45 | Gnarfoz | hyperactivechipmunk?^^ |
| 16:15.04 | Gnarfoz | also: Partition Magic is outdated, use something current or suffer the worst fate possible: data loss :> |
| 16:15.12 | zenzelezz | I was fairly sure it was hamster |
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| 16:15.33 | Gnarfoz | ~seen hyperchipmunk |
| 16:15.35 | purl | hyperchipmunk <n=staharaj@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/hyperactiveChipmunk> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowace, 148d 8h 57m 5s ago, saying: '~improbability'. |
| 16:15.38 | zenzelezz | I've been using ParitionMagic 7 (yes, 7) for years, and it's still done me no harm except when I have brought it upon myself |
| 16:15.44 | zenzelezz | Gnarfoz: that's not who I'm talking about |
| 16:15.50 | Gnarfoz | hm, nevermind then |
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| 16:26.25 | Lunessa | Our program who art in RAM, hallowed by thy bits... |
| 16:26.45 | zenzelezz | be thy |
| 16:27.11 | Lunessa | yes, zenzelezz - thus my comment about coffee. |
| 16:27.24 | zenzelezz | aha |
| 16:27.40 | zenzelezz | my pardon then; I've seen so many people unable to spell "hallowed be thy name" |
| 16:31.48 | Lunessa | Hey, I've had to repeat the Lord's Prayer more times than I care to think about, and I'm (usually) literate. :P |
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| 16:40.41 | Cairenn | blizzcon blizzcon blizzcon! |
| 16:40.58 | zenzelezz | you going again this year? |
| 16:41.04 | Cairenn | you betcha! |
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| 16:41.34 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 16:41.41 | nevcairiel | blizzcon in oct eh? wonder if they use it to announce a final release date for wotlk |
| 16:41.55 | cog|work | wtb playable DK |
| 16:42.18 | Lunessa | wtb liquid sleep. |
| 16:42.20 | nevcairiel | They will probably show a alpha/beta on the WWI08 already |
| 16:42.36 | nevcairiel | if they really want to tease us, with a DK |
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| 17:02.14 | ScytheBlade1 | hahaha @ http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=6417253832&sid=1 |
| 17:02.19 | ScytheBlade1 | Bornakk is a hero |
| 17:02.46 | zenzelezz | lol |
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| 17:21.49 | Tem | I like how he linked back to the same thread |
| 17:21.52 | Tem | which is locked |
| 17:24.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Yup |
| 17:24.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Hence why he is a hero |
| 17:26.50 | Lunessa | ... at the end of every semester some student decides that their sociology or government or psych paper should be all about MMOs and we get asked to fill out more surveys. *blech* |
| 17:27.14 | Lopeppeppy | Ick |
| 17:29.54 | *** join/#wowuidev schnoggo_ (n=lonkoeni@63-226-180-142.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 17:31.32 | zenzelezz | not quite the surveying I had in mind |
| 17:31.35 | alestane | Get your filthy surveys off of 'Peppy! |
| 17:33.15 | Lunessa | Did you break out the transit and the laser level and the ground water survey? |
| 17:33.44 | zenzelezz | you people fail at word play |
| 17:34.05 | Lunessa | no, we just like to make you gnash your teeth and grump. |
| 17:35.01 | zenzelezz | I don't do such things; I just anonymously post about you on other people's blogs |
| 17:35.06 | ScytheBlade1 | ~translate fr en fevrier |
| 17:35.18 | ScytheBlade1 | lol @ PA |
| 17:35.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Good times |
| 17:35.33 | Lunessa | sweet. It's good to know that out there, on the intertubes people think I'm a total bastard. |
| 17:35.36 | Lopeppeppy | Seerah!!! *pounce* |
| 17:35.44 | Seerah | eeeeeek! |
| 17:36.13 | Seerah | oh... PHEW! it's just peppy ;) |
| 17:36.24 | Lopeppeppy | JUST? |
| 17:36.25 | zenzelezz | "just" peppy? |
| 17:36.43 | Seerah | as in, not some crazy person |
| 17:36.44 | Seerah | :) |
| 17:37.00 | Seerah | and I heard already ;) Was going to say that you're coming, right? :P |
| 17:37.30 | Lopeppeppy | I'm making dreams, Seerah, but I totally have to sign a lease first.... |
| 17:37.41 | Seerah | you could hitchhike your way there |
| 17:37.50 | Lopeppeppy | Um.... no way. *shudder* |
| 17:37.51 | Seerah | well.... be picky |
| 17:38.05 | Lopeppeppy | You guys want to see me, right, not mourn my cold dead corpsefied body? |
| 17:38.12 | Seerah | right |
| 17:38.19 | zenzelezz | hitchhike with some of the people from this channel |
| 17:38.22 | Lopeppeppy | So hitch hiking is right out! |
| 17:38.30 | ScytheBlade1 | haha |
| 17:38.30 | Lopeppeppy | I tried, alestane is closest and he's flying! |
| 17:38.40 | Seerah | where are you, peppy? |
| 17:38.43 | ScytheBlade1 | It's only a nine hour drive for me! |
| 17:39.05 | ScytheBlade1 | That is, of course, assuming I drive the limit for ~500 miles |
| 17:39.07 | ScytheBlade1 | (lol) |
| 17:39.20 | alestane | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:39.37 | Cairenn | heh, you boys have absolutely no concept the trouble you're going to be in at BlizzCon - Lopeppeppy, Seerah and I have already been plotting |
| 17:39.46 | Lopeppeppy | We can do that, alestane, we can totally do that. |
| 17:39.48 | Seerah | heheh |
| 17:39.52 | Lopeppeppy | Seerah, I'm coming from New York. |
| 17:40.01 | zenzelezz | Cairenn: those of us who can't go expect extensive footage |
| 17:40.07 | Lopeppeppy | Not! |
| 17:40.11 | Lopeppeppy | I'm as camera shy as Cairenn is!! |
| 17:40.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Lopeppeppy: that was a total mistake to say here |
| 17:40.23 | zenzelezz | that didn't help Cairenn last year |
| 17:40.29 | zenzelezz | and I doubt it will help you this year |
| 17:41.30 | Seerah | I will be bringing my camera, but I expect bribes |
| 17:41.32 | Lunessa | I'm going this year... And I expect to get MORE than my fair share of red-head exposure. In fact, I expect restraining orders... |
| 17:41.36 | Lopeppeppy | Likely not. But I'll wear big ugly hats!!! |
| 17:41.58 | zenzelezz | Seerah: that can be arranged |
| 17:42.59 | Seerah | I see $278 for Northwest from LGA to Orange County airport, peppy |
| 17:43.06 | Seerah | but you should try Priceline |
| 17:43.08 | Lopeppeppy | LGA? |
| 17:43.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Seerah: pictures of Lopeppeppy in big ugly hats are now required |
| 17:43.13 | Seerah | La Guardia |
| 17:43.28 | Lopeppeppy | I am not coming from NYC, Seerah. I'm being coy as to what part of NY I'm from, but it's not the city. |
| 17:43.33 | Seerah | we could call in the Priceline Negotiator! |
| 17:43.38 | Seerah | ohhhhhh |
| 17:43.43 | Seerah | :P |
| 17:43.52 | Lopeppeppy | I've heard Priceline, Zoom, a few other services mentioned. Soon as I sign my lease, whee! |
| 17:44.29 | Lunessa | I was quite happy to discover that booking 1 month in advance I was able to get a round trip to the LA area for $200. I expect I'll be able to scrounge up something similar for BlizzCon. |
| 17:45.21 | Seerah | Zoom is a mostly Canadian airline and does cross-Antlantic flights, and it's only flight out of NY is from NYC to England |
| 17:45.55 | Lopeppeppy | Bah, no zooming for me then! |
| 17:49.09 | Cairenn | Zoom frickin rocks! Lyre's round trip from here to Glasgow at the end of June/mid July is $800 |
| 17:49.53 | Lopeppeppy | Ah, that must be where I heard the praises sung!~ |
| 17:50.01 | Cairenn | yup yup |
| 17:50.07 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:50.49 | Cairenn | at their prices, I would have been tempted to fly over to meet her for the "tourist" part of her trip after she's done her dig, except I was waiting to see if BlizzCon was happening |
| 17:51.05 | Cairenn | and now that I know it is - need to save the $ for it, instead |
| 17:52.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Gogo time zone differences - it's always fun to see you depart at 7:00 and arrive at 6:00 |
| 17:52.27 | ScytheBlade1 | (Both AM) |
| 17:52.36 | Cairenn | hehhee, yeah |
| 17:52.47 | alestane | When I came back from Japan I arrived half an hour before I left. |
| 17:53.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Though I won't be going - first school, second no one around here wants to |
| 17:53.17 | ScytheBlade1 | So eh |
| 17:53.23 | Lunessa | INT'L Date Line Crossing! |
| 17:53.23 | Lopeppeppy | ... Not looking forward to that, but I have to remember it when booking flights. |
| 18:03.01 | Fisker- | btw |
| 18:03.05 | Fisker- | drysc is a n00b |
| 18:03.14 | Fisker- | he keeps owning himself with blind fanboyism :( |
| 18:05.06 | Lunessa | clue-by-four is all well and good, but I'm going to keep using my [Clue Howitzer]. |
| 18:14.27 | *** join/#wowuidev [Ammo] (n=wouter@connected.dnd.utwente.nl) |
| 18:26.59 | Industrial | Is there an addon to graphically "explore" tables? |
| 18:27.06 | Kaso | there are some indeed, i remeber using one, i just cant remeber its name |
| 18:27.48 | haste | mydebug |
| 18:27.55 | Industrial | the chatframe can be so limiting compared to eg print_r and dumping a whole array in php and just displaying it in a webpage with scrolling, even if its 1000000 lines long. |
| 18:27.59 | Industrial | k |
| 18:29.32 | Teomyr | also Inspector (Gadget) |
| 18:36.28 | Lunessa | ... if this were a mean and vicious channel, this would be where someone said L2Debug nub! |
| 18:36.38 | *** join/#wowuidev |pez (n=eatyours@155.84-48-99.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:37.09 | |pez | Muahaha |
| 18:37.10 | |pez | I am mean |
| 18:37.46 | Seerah | whoa..... |
| 18:37.48 | Seerah | (1:36:27 PM) Lunessa: ... if this were a mean and vicious channel, this would be where someone said L2Debug nub! |
| 18:37.48 | Seerah | (1:36:38 PM) |pez [n=eatyours@155.84-48-99.nextgentel.com] entered the room. |
| 18:37.48 | Seerah | (1:37:09 PM) |pez: Muahaha |
| 18:37.48 | Seerah | (1:37:10 PM) |pez: I am mean |
| 18:38.38 | |pez | zenzelezz: the leaders of this organization had said that I was a loose whore. Soeh... |
| 18:38.58 | zenzelezz | I still accept your leadership |
| 18:39.02 | |pez | Yay! |
| 18:39.12 | |pez | I R Leader, now go get me an icecream please. ,D |
| 18:39.14 | |pez | ;D |
| 18:40.00 | Seerah | I like ice cream |
| 18:40.13 | Lunessa | |pez: I think that accusation is the entire point of zenzelezz accepting your leadership. :P |
| 18:41.07 | |pez | Before I got my boyfriend, I've had sex 5 times. And this was spread out over a year. :P |
| 18:41.37 | zenzelezz | every bit counts |
| 18:41.43 | zenzelezz | I've yet to kiss a girl |
| 18:42.09 | |pez | the people accusing me are not ones to talk about being loose. |
| 18:42.57 | |pez | Everything is relative, but when thhe people who accuse me of such things have had around... well, lots more partners than I probably will ever have, I get offended. |
| 18:44.46 | |pez | And they then proceede to delete my forum account, and ban my IP and e-mails from the forum, cause I wrote a nice little blogpost about it all, without any bitching what so ever... |
| 18:47.17 | *** join/#wowuidev pezzt (n=eatyours@155.84-48-99.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:47.22 | pezzt | ook, where'd I fall out? |
| 18:47.24 | pezzt | I wrote lots. :P |
| 18:47.37 | zenzelezz | "without any bitching" |
| 18:47.42 | pezzt | Ok |
| 18:49.43 | Lunessa | ... I was just making a joke about zenzelezz's intentions, not your character. :P |
| 18:50.29 | *** join/#wowuidev pez| (n=eatyours@155.84-48-99.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:50.37 | pez| | Ok, I cry now. this internetconnection sucks donkey balls. |
| 18:51.06 | zenzelezz | at least you missed Lunessa making fun of you |
| 18:51.11 | pez| | I'll .txt a short explenation to you guys. and post the link. :P |
| 18:52.32 | pez| | -__-' |
| 18:52.42 | pez| | I'm visiting people with a horrible internetconnection |
| 18:53.12 | zenzelezz | you should visit someone with a real connection instead |
| 18:53.23 | pez| | I know. |
| 18:53.33 | pez| | I'll be home on wednesday morning. :P |
| 18:53.43 | Lunessa | zenzelezz has a pretty reliable connection. :P |
| 18:54.12 | zenzelezz | what I lack in character, I make up for in speed and stability |
| 18:54.20 | pez| | .... |
| 18:54.31 | zenzelezz | welcome to the club |
| 18:54.39 | pez| | thankyou |
| 18:54.41 | Lunessa | At last, the joke is complete. |
| 18:55.22 | pez| | Ihihi |
| 18:55.24 | zenzelezz | you were once the learner, now you are the master? |
| 18:55.42 | Lunessa | Only a master of evil. |
| 18:58.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Kody- (n=nope@adsl-76-251-95-6.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:58.15 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Kody-] by ChanServ |
| 18:59.20 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=rtharper@client0507.vpn.ox.ac.uk) |
| 19:01.36 | Industrial | zenzelezz >> I've yet to kiss a girl |
| 19:01.37 | Industrial | logged. |
| 19:01.55 | *** join/#wowuidev pez_ (n=eatyours@155.84-48-99.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:02.06 | pez_ | wtb... chopper so I can go home. :P |
| 19:02.08 | Lunessa | Oh, that admission will haunt him. |
| 19:02.13 | Industrial | >:D |
| 19:02.15 | zenzelezz | Industrial: I never deny it |
| 19:02.28 | Lunessa | And it will be creatively misconstrued. |
| 19:02.32 | zenzelezz | no sex, no relationships, no kisses in 24 years. Barely hugged |
| 19:02.37 | Industrial | zenzelezz: ever kissed a guy? |
| 19:02.38 | zenzelezz | let's just say I'm not a people person |
| 19:02.41 | Industrial | Lunessa: so will that statement. |
| 19:02.47 | Industrial | or question* |
| 19:03.00 | zenzelezz | unlike you, I haven't |
| 19:03.07 | Industrial | who says I have |
| 19:03.23 | Industrial | actually that one ti.. no. |
| 19:10.48 | _rane | anyone know why /dbm doesn't work for me? |
| 19:11.04 | _rane | :E |
| 19:11.23 | pez_ | zenzelezz: did you read my blogpost? |
| 19:12.16 | *** join/#wowuidev |pez (n=eatyours@155.84-48-99.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:12.29 | |pez | zenzelezz! |
| 19:13.54 | Lopeppeppy | _rane, is it installed properly? And what does "doesn't work" mean in your context? |
| 19:14.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Malgayne_ (n=Malgayne@cpe-66-75-244-175.san.res.rr.com) |
| 19:15.08 | |pez | ok, so... not so super short story after all - http://slacktitude.net/?page_id=60 |
| 19:15.16 | |pez | english version, of what happened. |
| 19:15.26 | *** part/#wowuidev Malgayne_ (n=Malgayne@cpe-66-75-244-175.san.res.rr.com) |
| 19:15.49 | _rane | Lopeppeppy: doesn't do anything |
| 19:16.03 | _rane | there is no "this command does not exist" |
| 19:16.05 | _rane | nothing jsut happens |
| 19:16.16 | _rane | clicking the icon on minimap worked though |
| 19:16.30 | Lunessa | check the readme for the correct slash command |
| 19:16.37 | _rane | it is the correct slash command lol |
| 19:17.35 | Lopeppeppy | Well, at least the icon works... I wonder if you have another mod interfering with the slash command? |
| 19:17.40 | _rane | i wonder |
| 19:17.46 | _rane | i doubt that |
| 19:19.21 | Lopeppeppy | Has happened before. If you disable everything else, does the slash command work? |
| 19:19.32 | _rane | yes i found this http://www.deadlybossmods.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=364 |
| 19:19.49 | _rane | don't have time to try disabling everything now though |
| 19:22.13 | *** join/#wowuidev |pez|_ (n=mholmen@slacktitude.net) |
| 19:22.30 | |pez|_ | OOK, atlest now you won't see me fall out al tehe damned time. |
| 19:23.00 | Lunessa | *shrug* I switched back to BigWigs recently, so I can't test it. Sorry. |
| 19:23.00 | |pez|_ | if you didn't get my link, - http://slacktitude.net/?page_id=60 |
| 19:25.48 | zenzelezz | |pez|: yes, I did |
| 19:26.28 | |pez| | did I seem to be doing personal attacking? |
| 19:27.04 | zenzelezz | wouldn't say so |
| 19:27.40 | |pez| | My forum account got deleted without warning after putting a link to that post on the forum. :P |
| 19:28.18 | |pez| | they have also banned my IP, and my e-mails. |
| 19:28.46 | |pez| | I need to use a proxy to view the forum at all XD |
| 19:29.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Does PLAYER_LEAVING_WORLD fire when you reload the UI? |
| 19:30.03 | zenzelezz | so I'm looking at a C++ newsgroup, and some guy has got "unexpected results" with float, while he gets accurat (expected) results in Visual Basic... and he asks "doesn't this look bad on C++'s resume?" First response: "No, it looks bad on *your* resume" |
| 19:30.29 | |pez| | haha |
| 19:31.45 | Lunessa | haha... Visual Basic vs C++ - two different tools. :p he's silly. |
| 19:32.05 | zenzelezz | let's just say he had no clue how floating point numbers work |
| 19:33.32 | Lunessa | Right. So his "VB" gets it right just means "I let as pre-built function do the math for me without understanding it." |
| 19:34.38 | Valaron|Work | 60-day WoW card for $20. http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=137972&linkid=j13459594k12279&affiliateid=k12279&mid= |
| 19:35.15 | Valaron|Work | Sorry for spammage |
| 19:38.58 | schnoggo_ | out-of-stock :( |
| 19:40.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Hjalte (n=Hjalte@0x5358f613.svgnxx3.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 19:40.25 | Valaron|Work | See if you can pick it up at your local shop. |
| 19:41.53 | schnoggo_ | checked - out of stock |
| 19:49.58 | *** join/#wowuidev amro (n=amro@82.101.184.138) |
| 19:56.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai` (n=thewill@ip503d59c0.speed.planet.nl) |
| 20:02.22 | Lunessa | forums fall down go boom? |
| 20:02.44 | Duman | looks like it |
| 20:02.55 | Duman | Trying 12.129.242.24... |
| 20:02.55 | Duman | telnet: connect to address 12.129.242.24: Connection refused |
| 20:03.25 | Lopeppeppy | Happy Monday, or happy BlizzCon Announcement Day. |
| 20:04.22 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht_ (n=rtharper@sann177037.st-annes.ox.ac.uk) |
| 20:06.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Gotai (n=thewill@ip503d59c0.speed.planet.nl) |
| 20:09.26 | Keias | BlizzCon Announcement Day? |
| 20:10.30 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v schnoggo] by ChanServ |
| 20:11.55 | Cide | you're out of the loop |
| 20:11.57 | Cide | if you missed it |
| 20:12.33 | Lopeppeppy | Is very sad. |
| 20:13.19 | wereHamster | hui.. internship? grats Guillotine :) |
| 20:13.41 | zenzelezz | how many days has that been in the topic now? |
| 20:14.01 | Lopeppeppy | A goodly while. *grin* |
| 20:14.07 | wereHamster | I was at a conference, I came back today... |
| 20:15.39 | wereHamster | oh, it's been in the topic since 10 days.. |
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| 20:22.22 | kergoth | Experience is what lets you recognize a |
| 20:22.23 | kergoth | mistake when you make it again. |
| 20:22.23 | kergoth | -- One of Nadav Har'El's Email Signatures. |
| 20:24.13 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Kody-] by ChanServ |
| 20:26.45 | Lunessa | Has anyone else read this article on leadership in MMOs as it relates to modern business? |
| 20:26.54 | Lunessa | freaking URL is HUGE. |
| 20:27.17 | zenzelezz | that's why god invented tinyurl |
| 20:28.28 | Lunessa | http://tinyurl.com/5bs55z |
| 20:28.57 | ralfWORK | hahahha |
| 20:30.43 | Duman | man, still jacked (forums) |
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| 21:35.12 | ScytheBlade1 | 2.4.2 seems to be circulating the websites |
| 21:35.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Any truth to this 15.1MB binary? |
| 21:36.30 | nevcairiel | looks real |
| 21:36.37 | ScytheBlade1 | ... and the patch checks the embedded signature, so, heh |
| 21:36.41 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, looks real enough |
| 21:36.57 | alestane | It's been on PTRs for a few weeks now. |
| 21:37.13 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm just wondering how people got it. |
| 21:37.29 | nevcairiel | I need to exchange some gems to the new purified shadowsong amethys on wednesday :) |
| 21:45.34 | Beladona | ptr is down |
| 21:45.38 | Beladona | last i checked |
| 21:46.00 | zenzelezz | someone should cheer it up then |
| 21:50.23 | Drundia | So US already get patch? |
| 21:50.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Not yet |
| 21:50.49 | ScytheBlade1 | But probably tonigt |
| 21:50.51 | ScytheBlade1 | *tonight |
| 21:51.36 | Drundia | yay, more resilience for me on wednesday. hehehe. |
| 21:52.11 | Drundia | or trinket waits for s4? |
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| 22:32.02 | kergoth | "Ask a programmer how long it'll take to write a given module, or a contractor how long it'll take to fix your roof. Ask a laconic Southerner how far it is to the creek. Better yet, throw darts -- the answer's likely to be just as reliable." |
| 22:35.59 | *** join/#wowuidev dylanm (n=dylanm@c-68-62-4-140.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 22:38.31 | *** join/#wowuidev JoshBorke (n=josh@WoWUIDev/WoWInterface/LegoBlock/joshborke) |
| 22:40.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Tenchworks (n=none@69.183.47.6) |
| 22:41.35 | *** join/#wowuidev DARKGuy (i=DARKGuy@201.242.104.122) |
| 22:41.53 | DARKGuy | afternoon ^_^ |
| 22:42.10 | DARKGuy | anybody knows how do I delete a non-wowace addon in jWoWUpdater? :/ |
| 22:42.20 | Drundia | morning, DARKGuy, it's morning! |
| 22:42.36 | DARKGuy | Drundia, well it's afternoon here XD |
| 22:42.42 | Drundia | ~ugt |
| 22:42.42 | purl | somebody said ugt was Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 22:43.36 | DARKGuy | Interesting o.o |
| 22:45.06 | Tenchworks | lol |
| 22:45.08 | Kaso | i have big issue with ugt |
| 22:45.33 | Industrial | DARKGuy: delete it from your addons folder :D? |
| 22:45.41 | Kaso | it's whole point is to prevent "morning", "well its evening here" type discussions. But not it just causes loads of "what is ugt" discussions |
| 22:45.59 | Industrial | just say hi |
| 22:46.13 | DARKGuy | Industrial, I did, but jwowupdater keeps having it on its list |
| 22:46.20 | Industrial | then it soks |
| 22:46.22 | Industrial | ;D |
| 22:46.31 | Industrial | DARKGuy: restart the updater? |
| 22:47.14 | Industrial | I mean, "platform independent" is such a lame argument |
| 22:47.17 | DARKGuy | Industrial, mah, it happens everytime I open it xD |
| 22:47.37 | Kaso | Industrial, what would you have replace it? |
| 22:47.41 | Industrial | theres lots of languages that are platform independent or at least have interpreters (why compile) available for everything |
| 22:47.45 | Kaso | Pure C/C++ type stuff? |
| 22:47.49 | DARKGuy | python :D |
| 22:47.51 | Industrial | ruby perl python lua |
| 22:47.57 | Industrial | hell, php :P |
| 22:48.12 | Industrial | (for the sake of "you can run it anywhere") |
| 22:48.13 | Kaso | java has a much more complete set of standard libraries |
| 22:48.39 | Cide | uhh |
| 22:48.43 | Cide | can't beat python on that one |
| 22:49.22 | Industrial | You dont need 999 libraries just to do something ... |
| 22:50.02 | Industrial | using the libraries probably makes it harder to code anyway :P |
| 22:50.04 | JoshBorke | why wouldn't you use java then industrial? |
| 22:50.12 | DARKGuy | SLOW |
| 22:50.20 | Industrial | I've had to do one assignment with it for school now |
| 22:50.24 | DARKGuy | and bloated :P |
| 22:50.32 | Industrial | JoshBorke: thats my reason, :P |
| 22:50.41 | Industrial | not much more to say :D |
| 22:51.02 | Cide | ok |
| 22:51.05 | Cide | honest question |
| 22:51.12 | Cide | what do fuck do people mean when they say something is bloated? |
| 22:51.26 | Cide | more specifically, what the fuck do you mean when you say that a *programming language* is bloated? |
| 22:51.29 | JoshBorke | cide: i believy ou mean "what the fuck"? |
| 22:51.42 | Cide | yep |
| 22:51.46 | Industrial | also, a little shell script (or hey, lua/python script) can update addons just fine |
| 22:51.53 | Industrial | who needs a big client :p |
| 22:51.53 | Drundia | Kaso, eventually everyone will know what ugt is :) |
| 22:52.00 | JoshBorke | Industrial: do shell scripts have guis? |
| 22:52.08 | JoshBorke | Industrial: what about lua? |
| 22:52.19 | Industrial | why do you need a gui |
| 22:52.22 | JoshBorke | and when was the last time you found a windows computer that had lua on it? |
| 22:52.32 | JoshBorke | or python? |
| 22:52.39 | DARKGuy | good question :p |
| 22:52.47 | Cide | today |
| 22:52.49 | Industrial | thats not really an argument cause you need to install JRE too before you run java |
| 22:52.51 | Cide | when I sat down at my desk |
| 22:52.54 | JoshBorke | cide: preinstalled? |
| 22:52.55 | Industrial | just install python or lua |
| 22:53.00 | Cide | no.. my own computer has both |
| 22:53.02 | Industrial | JoshBorke: java doesnt come preinstalled. |
| 22:53.10 | Cide | python has py2exe which makes the preinstalled python unnecessary |
| 22:53.21 | DARKGuy | Cide, when I mean bloated, I mean, why does the interpreter has to load 3739347892372389 libraries in order to do something simple in java? why to load a 8239473897234893 Gb framework when you can just do a simple program in .exe and have it load the native windows libraries and work? |
| 22:53.40 | Cide | how is that bloated? |
| 22:53.43 | DARKGuy | imho, comparing Visual Basic to PureBASIC leads to the conclusion that VB is bloated. |
| 22:53.46 | Cide | if you want to use strings, load strings |
| 22:54.05 | JoshBorke | Industrial: it might not, but it is one of those things that users will need for other applications |
| 22:54.08 | DARKGuy | you still need to install java :P |
| 22:54.19 | Industrial | JoshBorke: what if you have more python applications? |
| 22:54.28 | JoshBorke | then you know what you are doing and it is a moot point |
| 22:54.38 | Cide | in python, you don't have to load a string library |
| 22:54.42 | Industrial | so you dont know what you are doing if its java? |
| 22:54.47 | Cide | does that mean python isn't bloated? no, if anything it means the opposite |
| 22:54.50 | Cide | that python is more bloated |
| 22:54.56 | Cide | fucking stupid argument imo |
| 22:55.17 | Cide | I give you #include <string> btw |
| 22:55.23 | Industrial | in practise, you can do most in python in 1/3 or less the code then in java |
| 22:55.25 | JoshBorke | Industrial: sorry, let me be more clear. if you have more python applications than java applications then you sohuldn't need to run a java application to update your addons because you're smart enough to make your own python update |
| 22:55.34 | Industrial | and that matters when the application grows |
| 22:55.43 | Industrial | scalability! |
| 22:55.55 | DARKGuy | xD |
| 22:56.00 | Xuerian | Industrial: You should make your own job |
| 22:56.07 | Industrial | heh |
| 22:56.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Nechckn (n=N@c-68-55-216-71.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) |
| 22:56.28 | Xuerian | "Minimalist extraordinaire " |
| 22:56.32 | Industrial | :-) |
| 22:56.44 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+v Nechckn] by ChanServ |
| 22:56.51 | JoshBorke | i would agree that a language which determines what packages it needs to include by inspecting the code is more "bloated" than a language which must be told |
| 22:57.15 | dylanm | I don't see how the Java bit has anything to do with his problem. |
| 22:57.35 | JoshBorke | someone has a problem? |
| 22:57.53 | DARKGuy | Well, I can make a program in PureBASIC in about 30 lines that will compress (using rar.exe) some directories, rename them with a date timestamp, and place them on a specific folder, keeping a cycle of 7 files. Try doing that in VB: You gotta load a DLL/OCX for compression, or run rar.exe externally. In the end anyways, you'll have to use an installer so you provide the VB6 runtime engine... whereas in PB I just put the .exe anywhere and it will run, |
| 22:57.53 | DARKGuy | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:58.14 | dylanm | JoshBorke: Eh nevermind I misinterpreted what Indy say. |
| 22:58.16 | dylanm | *said |
| 22:58.19 | dylanm | Fuck I'm tired. |
| 22:58.35 | JoshBorke | someone codes in VB? |
| 22:58.39 | dylanm | Someone was talking about Jwowupdater not being able to do something and then we argue about Java. |
| 22:58.52 | DARKGuy | no, but when I see somebody coding in VB I get urges to punch him in the face |
| 22:58.59 | dylanm | But he didn't make the program's failing pursuant to Java's, so that's fine. Carry on. |
| 22:59.07 | Industrial | JoshBorke: same argument basic(ha!)ally. the language is old and fugly |
| 22:59.18 | JoshBorke | java is old and fugly? |
| 22:59.22 | DARKGuy | lol |
| 22:59.28 | DARKGuy | fugly, I agree |
| 22:59.44 | JoshBorke | i mean, if you think java is old and fugly, that's fine |
| 22:59.57 | JoshBorke | i happen to disagree with you. |
| 23:00.11 | Industrial | so why would you want to write fugly code? cause you can yell around "I'm a corporate programmer"? |
| 23:00.26 | Industrial | JoshBorke: thats fine :> |
| 23:00.33 | DARKGuy | writing fugly code makes you corporate and professional nowadays :P |
| 23:00.38 | Industrial | ^ |
| 23:00.45 | Xuerian | dylanm: This wouldn't be a programming channel if this didn't happen |
| 23:01.16 | DARKGuy | Well to the hell with it, I'll just delete the config file and keep on. |
| 23:01.19 | JoshBorke | i don't exactly understand the fugly argument. we run java at my place of employment. i don't know why it was decided to be that way, but it was (7 years ago). at this point in time, we are too heavily invested in it to divert to another language |
| 23:01.23 | Industrial | DARKGuy: I'm in the first year of CS and I can clearly pick out the microsofties and corporaties and the open sourcies =D its fun |
| 23:02.06 | DARKGuy | Industrial, lol, good for you XD I still need to get in uni, but I gotta find the money to pay it first :P |
| 23:02.12 | DARKGuy | CS ftw |
| 23:02.38 | Industrial | well, its not exactly CS - I'm dutch, but its comparable (and bachelor) |
| 23:03.07 | JoshBorke | mikk: what's an instead? |
| 23:03.30 | Mikk | ~lart JoshBorke |
| 23:03.30 | purl | whips JoshBorke with a wet and grimy noodle just because |
| 23:03.38 | Industrial | JoshBorke: I had to write one project with java this year for school and the program was 100 lines long before it even did anything |
| 23:03.52 | Industrial | JoshBorke: most of my addons are 100-200 lines and they work fine |
| 23:04.00 | JoshBorke | lol |
| 23:04.02 | Mikk | Er... |
| 23:04.04 | Industrial | and I bet an updater in lua or python would be 100 lines too |
| 23:04.05 | Mikk | That's not a very valid comparison |
| 23:04.06 | JoshBorke | that's quite the compelling argument |
| 23:04.17 | Mikk | I mean.. any project worth its name is several thousand lines |
| 23:04.36 | Mikk | And when we start talking "products", we're at half a million -- 10 mil |
| 23:04.52 | Industrial | I disagree with that |
| 23:04.54 | dylanm | I don't like Java but the tools are nice. |
| 23:05.08 | Cide | the thing is |
| 23:05.09 | Industrial | any software that does its job in a safe, nice and fast way is good software and has value |
| 23:05.15 | JoshBorke | Industrial: that is not a very valid argument, just so you know. you're talking about wow addons that are run using lua but require the entire API provided by blizzard to do anything versus a program which will run natively on any machine with a java virtual machine |
| 23:05.19 | Cide | lua at 100-200 lines doesn't include much structure |
| 23:05.32 | Industrial | a pretty small thing has more value then a big fat ugly thing (damn :D) |
| 23:05.55 | Cide | yeah, but you can't write the same type of code for a large project as for a 150 line addon |
| 23:05.56 | Mikk | WoW could run a java engine instead of Lua and things would be equally small |
| 23:06.00 | Cide | the large project requires so much more structure |
| 23:06.05 | Mikk | Because it'd provide the same API |
| 23:06.08 | DARKGuy | WoW is bloated. |
| 23:06.13 | Industrial | JoshBorke: open a file, use wget, use tar/unzip/p7zip done? |
| 23:06.42 | Mikk | Aye, sure, if people are ok with using commandline and editing a text file to list their addons |
| 23:06.42 | DARKGuy | Mikk, hell no, imagine writing an addon in Java |
| 23:06.58 | DARKGuy | Industrial, fugly |
| 23:07.08 | Mikk | Java in and of itself is an ok language. I just detest the standard libs :o) |
| 23:07.11 | JoshBorke | DARKGuy: why would it be that much worse? you would import the blizzard API and have everything you needed |
| 23:07.26 | Shirik | Java is nice in theory |
| 23:07.32 | Shirik | I actually personally like the libraries |
| 23:07.41 | Mikk | You're schooly! |
| 23:07.45 | Industrial | lol |
| 23:07.45 | Industrial | . |
| 23:07.50 | Shirik | It just can't stand up to what some other languages have to offer. Its one major selling point is OS independence, though |
| 23:07.57 | Mikk | Bet you like the C++ standard libs too! |
| 23:08.04 | Shirik | I detest the C++ standard libraries |
| 23:08.06 | DARKGuy | JoshBorke, the language is pretty different, the result:code ratio is very low. |
| 23:08.06 | Shirik | and you know that |
| 23:08.10 | Shirik | I think |
| 23:08.13 | Mikk | No :o) |
| 23:08.17 | Shirik | well now you do :P |
| 23:08.31 | Nechckn | That Shirik, always causing trouble.... |
| 23:08.36 | JoshBorke | ~failrik |
| 23:08.36 | purl | FAIL, Shirik, FAIL! |
| 23:08.38 | Shirik | I love C++ |
| 23:08.40 | DARKGuy | Lua is simpler, shorter, and it works without too much complications, I like it :P |
| 23:08.45 | Shirik | I just don't use the standard libraries |
| 23:08.47 | DARKGuy | Shirik, me too |
| 23:09.37 | Mikk | I've grown to really really like Lua |
| 23:09.45 | JoshBorke | mikk: me too |
| 23:10.10 | Mikk | Just wtb "continue" :( |
| 23:10.29 | Industrial | why do i read nekochan :D? |
| 23:10.41 | JoshBorke | mikk: <3 tables |
| 23:10.43 | Mikk | Cos you watch too much Anime |
| 23:10.47 | Industrial | \o\ /o/ |
| 23:10.50 | Shirik | neko neko |
| 23:10.50 | Mikk | yeah the lua table construct is fricking awesome |
| 23:10.59 | Mikk | pure stroke of genious |
| 23:11.03 | JoshBorke | yea |
| 23:11.06 | DARKGuy | +1 |
| 23:11.08 | Shirik | metatables are <3 |
| 23:11.17 | Shirik | coolest feature I have ever come across in a language |
| 23:11.21 | Mikk | yeah |
| 23:11.52 | Industrial | xD |
| 23:11.58 | Shirik | omg give me ur musics |
| 23:12.44 | Mikk | and yeah some might complain that lua lacks proper OO support... but tbh it's fairly easy to do multiple inheritance and virtuals and whatnot |
| 23:12.56 | Mikk | since it's all implementable with metas |
| 23:13.00 | JoshBorke | blah blah bla |
| 23:13.06 | Cide | it's still messy to do |
| 23:13.11 | Cide | on any large scale |
| 23:13.16 | JoshBorke | use the right too to do the job |
| 23:13.19 | Shirik | but think about it like this Cide |
| 23:13.23 | JoshBorke | square peg, round hole |
| 23:13.29 | Shirik | you have a microcontroller that you want to be dynamically programmable |
| 23:13.41 | Shirik | are you going to use Java for its OO features? |
| 23:13.43 | Industrial | http://204.15.225.50:80 |
| 23:13.45 | Shirik | or are you going to use Lua |
| 23:13.46 | Industrial | Shirik: ^ |
| 23:13.50 | kergoth | multiple inheritence is almost never actually needed, and introduces unnecessary complications |
| 23:13.53 | Industrial | Shirik: my school did!!! |
| 23:13.54 | Shirik | Industrial I can't download on this card, maybe another time :) |
| 23:13.56 | Industrial | Shirik: :@:@:@:@:@ |
| 23:14.07 | Shirik | your school seriously programmed a microcontroller with Java? |
| 23:14.11 | Industrial | yes |
| 23:14.15 | Cide | Shirik: the circumstances benefit lua, but that doesn't imply that lua is a better OO language |
| 23:14.15 | Industrial | its called USB4Nemo |
| 23:14.17 | Shirik | I did that once, and saw first-hand where Java fails at a lot |
| 23:14.20 | dylanm | http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2008-02/msg00720.html |
| 23:14.24 | JoshBorke | Shirik: that begs the question, why do you program a micro-controller with OO? |
| 23:14.28 | Shirik | Cide, I'm just saying there is a reason Lua does it like that :) |
| 23:14.33 | Shirik | Lua strives to be a simple, small language |
| 23:14.40 | Shirik | with all the tools you need to get what you want |
| 23:14.48 | Shirik | JoshBorke: Why not? |
| 23:14.54 | Cide | I'm not saying there's not a reason |
| 23:15.01 | Cide | I'm just saying it's messier to do it with lua |
| 23:15.05 | JoshBorke | i dunno, i'm tihnking of 8bit microcontrollers, which are somewhat small |
| 23:15.08 | Shirik | An intelligent compiler should be able to provide OO capabilities without any real bloat |
| 23:15.08 | Mikk | That's entirely true |
| 23:15.13 | Industrial | I'd like lua to have some OO opementation. You can do it yourself but looping over all parents for every request for multiple inheritance is kinda not nice. And how are you going to make an interface? |
| 23:15.25 | Mikk | Errr... looping over parents? |
| 23:15.26 | Shirik | A good C++ compiler can do that fine |
| 23:15.41 | Shirik | I've compiled C++ for microcontrollers quite often, it's my favorite language |
| 23:16.03 | Industrial | Mikk: yeah like in pil. How would you else do it? |
| 23:16.28 | Mikk | I implemented it as NewClass = {} Inherit(NewClass, Class1) Inherit(NewClass, Class2) |
| 23:16.32 | Mikk | where Inherit is basically a table copy |
| 23:16.37 | Industrial | ah k |
| 23:16.43 | Industrial | (http://www.lua.org/pil/16.3.html) |
| 23:17.10 | Drundia | I'd make class as metatable |
| 23:17.12 | Mikk | Yes, you use a tad more ram when you create a new table per class... but lets face it... how many classes do you have? |
| 23:17.22 | Drundia | at least its methods |
| 23:17.44 | Industrial | Drundia: yeah but the parents and their parents are also classes, and you need those too |
| 23:17.50 | kergoth | the multiple inheritence implmentation i did back in the day implemented the C3 linearization, storing the superclass linearization in the class table and having its __index function traverse it |
| 23:18.19 | Drundia | metatable can have metatable |
| 23:19.01 | Drundia | the class has its methods in getmetatable(class).__index |
| 23:19.28 | Drundia | then its parent has it in getmetatable(getmetatable(class).__index).__index |
| 23:19.30 | Drundia | and so on |
| 23:19.34 | Mikk | Aye but that really does mean lookups causing lookups causing lookups |
| 23:19.37 | Mikk | It gets slow in the long rung |
| 23:19.38 | Mikk | run |
| 23:19.42 | Drundia | tru |
| 23:19.43 | Drundia | e |
| 23:20.16 | Drundia | but i would think having 1 metatable per class may be better |
| 23:22.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 23:25.00 | *** join/#wowuidev sioraiocht (n=rtharper@client0041.vpn.ox.ac.uk) |
| 23:28.53 | Industrial | okay so |
| 23:28.57 | Industrial | lua> i=0 f=function() i=i+1 return function() print(i) end end c={} c.a,c.b,c.d=f(),f(),f() function class (parents) local c={} for i=1,#parents do for k,v in pairs(parents[i]) do c[k]=v end end return c end foo=class(c) bar=class(c) print(foo.a==bar.a) |
| 23:28.57 | lua_bot | Industrial: true |
| 23:29.02 | Industrial | multiple inheritance :D? |
| 23:29.31 | Industrial | i gotta go to bed |
| 23:29.33 | Industrial | >_> |
| 23:29.45 | Industrial | 1:30, school tomorrow |
| 23:30.01 | Cide | that's not multiple inheritance |
| 23:31.37 | *** topic/#WoWUIDev by Cairenn -> http://wowuidev.pastey.net/ | 2.4.x ToC: 20400 | #WoWUIDev-commits : A place to watch active development of World of Warcraft addons. Multiple Sites' CIA & JIRA bots reporting | WoW programming book http://tinyurl.com/5hnxob | In order to be more inclusive, we've moved to #WoWUIDev. | "well I don't have a soul so it crashed" - Shirik |
| 23:32.10 | Shirik | *headdesk* |
| 23:32.39 | Shirik | You're not allowed to quote stuff from the staff channel in here, that's secrets! |
| 23:32.49 | Cairenn | *grin* |
| 23:33.13 | Cairenn | I'm just waiting for them to ask what crashed |
| 23:33.35 | DARKGuy | I thought it was his computer what crashed |
| 23:34.44 | Shirik | DARKGuy, honestly, this is going to sound very strange |
| 23:34.59 | Shirik | but since I've gotten vista, my computer has not crashed, aside from self-inflicted things |
| 23:35.17 | DARKGuy | Shirik, it isn't strange, I'm living it too :P |
| 23:35.42 | JoshBorke | ~emulate Josh_Borke |
| 23:35.43 | purl | ACTION hugs Cairenn |
| 23:35.54 | Cairenn | ~emulate Cairenn |
| 23:35.55 | purl | ACTION purrs |
| 23:37.12 | Shirik | oops |
| 23:37.28 | Shirik | there's too many things in those damn popup menus |
| 23:37.43 | Shirik | haha I'm in control of 203 people |
| 23:37.51 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: what crashed? |
| 23:38.02 | Mikk | How the hell did Shirik get ops in here!!!111 |
| 23:38.05 | Shirik | a program we were testing |
| 23:38.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik: what crashed? |
| 23:38.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Guillotine (n=Guilloti@cpe-76-167-203-65.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 23:38.13 | *** mode/#WoWUIDev [+o Guillotine] by ChanServ |
| 23:38.13 | ScytheBlade1 | ;) |
| 23:38.17 | Shirik | (19:26:45) (+Shirik) Whenever I exit that application, I get System.InvalidOperationException: Cannot open 'Storage.sdf'. Provider 'System.Data.SqlServerCe.3.5' not installed. |
| 23:38.17 | Shirik | (19:27:09) (@Dolby) it was stealing your soul :( |
| 23:38.17 | Shirik | (19:28:29) (+Shirik) oh |
| 23:38.17 | Shirik | (19:28:34) (+Shirik) well I don't have a soul |
| 23:38.19 | Shirik | (19:28:36) (+Shirik) so it crashed |
| 23:39.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Shirik is playing with SQL |
| 23:39.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Such a thought scares me |
| 23:39.27 | Shirik | not exactly |
| 23:39.35 | Shirik | I am actually playing with an absense of SQL, which is rather fun |
| 23:40.02 | Mikk | Stay away from it tbfh |
| 23:40.04 | Shirik | a program was uploaded to wowi, we were testing it. apparently it expected an sql server to be installed, which is rather odd :P |
| 23:40.15 | Mikk | Comma separated text file + grep = faster :P |
| 23:40.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Ahh |
| 23:40.59 | Drundia | no soul, no sql, how many other s*l things do you lack? |
| 23:41.13 | Mikk | SQL is not something that you "lack" |
| 23:41.23 | Drundia | hehe |
| 23:41.33 | Drundia | let's say you don't have |
| 23:41.38 | Shirik | does CSV allow you atomic transactions? |
| 23:41.39 | Shirik | hmmm? |
| 23:41.50 | ScytheBlade1 | Sure. In memory. :D |
| 23:41.52 | Shirik | I guess if you do locks on the file |
| 23:42.04 | Shirik | then you can't have concurrent access |
| 23:42.07 | Shirik | and what about rollbacks! |
| 23:43.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Sure. In memory. :D |
| 23:43.51 | Shirik | I think you need OOP to do that without confusion |
| 23:43.58 | Shirik | and multiple inheritance |
| 23:44.00 | Drundia | hard disk is technically a kind of memory too. |
| 23:54.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Kowski (i=Kowski@pv105034.reshsg.uci.edu) |
| 23:54.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Kowski_ (n=Kowski@pv105034.reshsg.uci.edu) |
