| 05:00.06 | *** join/#wowroster Zeryl (n=Zeryl@24-182-147-52.dhcp.cpgd.mo.charter.com) |
| 05:00.13 | *** mode/#wowroster [+o Zeryl] by ChanServ |
| 08:15.07 | *** join/#wowroster PleegWat|Work (n=ple@82-148-206-57.fiber.unet.nl) |
| 08:15.07 | *** mode/#wowroster [+o PleegWat|Work] by ChanServ |
| 09:32.57 | *** join/#wowroster Tupsi (n=Miranda@217.7.101.202) |
| 10:40.48 | *** join/#wowroster Zeryl (n=Zeryl@24-182-147-52.dhcp.cpgd.mo.charter.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:40.48 | *** join/#wowroster GingerbreadM (n=drwily@user-0c2h2qe.cable.mindspring.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:40.48 | *** join/#wowroster [PUPPETS]Gonzo (i=gonzo@80.69.47.16) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:40.48 | *** mode/#wowroster [+o Zeryl] by irc.freenode.net |
| 12:40.09 | lhunath | sounds like this place went pretty dead since I last came here. |
| 14:31.54 | PleegWat|Work | not many interesting people to talk to |
| 14:42.51 | lhunath | tell me; did Armory defeat WoWRoster? |
| 14:45.39 | PleegWat|Work | not yet |
| 14:45.40 | PleegWat|Work | we' |
| 14:45.44 | PleegWat|Work | we're still alive and kicking |
| 14:46.00 | PleegWat|Work | They seem to be doing their best to annoy poetter into giving up though |
| 14:46.18 | PleegWat|Work | though I don't think there's success there yet either |
| 14:46.58 | lhunath | so there's still a lot of interest in what wowroster has to offer? |
| 14:47.03 | PleegWat|Work | ya |
| 14:47.06 | PleegWat|Work | Seen 2.0 yet? |
| 14:47.12 | lhunath | I suppose it does extend the armory features quite a bit. |
| 14:47.18 | PleegWat|Work | http://leegwater-68.demon.nl/roster |
| 14:47.23 | lhunath | let's see. |
| 14:47.58 | lhunath | there's an armory -> wowroster plugin now? |
| 14:48.24 | PleegWat|Work | yeah, an addon |
| 14:48.40 | PleegWat|Work | about 90% of what was roster 1.7.3 is now bundled addons |
| 14:48.52 | PleegWat|Work | but armorysync is separate |
| 14:48.54 | PleegWat|Work | not from the team |
| 14:49.10 | lhunath | so it's been modularised. that's good. |
| 14:49.52 | PleegWat|Work | yup |
| 14:50.05 | PleegWat|Work | addons can do much more than they used to. |
| 14:50.54 | lhunath | if wowroster gets significantly popular I might considder writing a rich client for it or integrating it into NetherPanel |
| 14:50.55 | PleegWat|Work | Plus the menu has been overhauled, we're using limited templating, we support a SEO url scheme, we've got a single access file |
| 14:51.14 | PleegWat|Work | rich client? |
| 14:51.31 | PleegWat|Work | There's not really any dependable interfaces, besides the upload one |
| 14:51.34 | lhunath | levitate it out of the browser onto the desktop so to say. |
| 14:51.44 | PleegWat|Work | Course, you could write an XML export addon for rsoter. |
| 14:51.59 | lhunath | yeah. I suppose we could considder webservices. |
| 14:52.22 | lhunath | but it all depends on the actual benefit it would yield. |
| 14:52.31 | PleegWat|Work | Tried out the memberslist sorting/filtering? I'm quite proud of that bit |
| 14:52.48 | PleegWat|Work | completely clientside, so you don't have to wait for a slow server or connection. |
| 14:52.55 | lhunath | extensive. |
| 14:53.31 | lhunath | must've taken you quite a bit of blood sweat and tears to get JavaScript to obey. |
| 14:53.48 | PleegWat|Work | somewhat |
| 14:53.59 | PleegWat|Work | I stole the basics of the sorting thing |
| 14:54.04 | lhunath | I've always dreaded workig in JS. |
| 14:54.37 | lhunath | aw. Class: 60-70, no go :) |
| 14:54.44 | PleegWat|Work | no ranges, sorry |
| 14:54.52 | PleegWat|Work | you can say >=60 |
| 14:55.04 | lhunath | er. |
| 14:55.16 | lhunath | I put that in Class? stupid me. |
| 14:55.32 | PleegWat|Work | ya |
| 14:55.33 | PleegWat|Work | that too |
| 14:55.40 | PleegWat|Work | didn't notice you saying you put it in class... |
| 14:56.34 | PleegWat|Work | It also filters before it sorts, and doesn't sort the filtered out rows. makes for much faster sorting of filtered data |
| 14:57.19 | lhunath | indeed. it does feel rather smooth. |
| 14:57.28 | lhunath | I do like the SQL stats at the bottom. |
| 14:57.38 | PleegWat|Work | So do we, in debugging. |
| 14:57.56 | lhunath | I bet. |
| 14:58.03 | PleegWat|Work | It's also got a very nice highlighted array dump, and a backtrace function |
| 14:58.06 | lhunath | nice menu. |
| 14:58.46 | PleegWat|Work | Check the bottom of http://leegwater-68.demon.nl/roster/guild/memberslist/debug.html for the array dump |
| 14:59.25 | lhunath | nifty. |
| 14:59.33 | PleegWat|Work | yeah |
| 15:00.29 | lhunath | you could use AJAX to avoid even more page reloads. |
| 15:00.30 | PleegWat|Work | It also supports objects and resources, both with names. |
| 15:00.45 | PleegWat|Work | Nah, ajax requires a really different way of programming |
| 15:00.51 | lhunath | true. |
| 15:00.53 | PleegWat|Work | Menu config uses it a bit, but that's the only bit |
| 15:01.51 | PleegWat|Work | If you want to build a java desktop frontend though you'd probably be using something similar, that offers raw data in xml |
| 15:02.36 | lhunath | if there were a webservice that I could use to obtain all the data made available in the webapp then I could definately do it easily. |
| 15:02.58 | PleegWat|Work | I could make something like that, either bundled or not, if you write up some specs of the exact data you want. |
| 15:03.38 | PleegWat|Work | They'd basically be possibly filtered XML dumps of the database |
| 15:03.41 | lhunath | I'm afraid I know rather too little of wowroster itself to be qualified, I'm afraid. But I could learn I suppose. |
| 15:04.27 | lhunath | well - there's a difference between webservices and importing the roster database as xml. |
| 15:04.48 | PleegWat|Work | that's why I'd need to know what kind of stuff you want from rsoter |
| 15:04.50 | PleegWat|Work | roster |
| 15:04.55 | lhunath | right. |
| 15:05.29 | lhunath | how does the webapp obtain the data? does it actually perform queries on the database or is there some sort of abstraction layer inbetween the webapp and the persistence? |
| 15:06.04 | PleegWat|Work | There's a central php file that the queries run through, but no real database abstraction |
| 15:07.16 | lhunath | hm. then I suppose such an abstraction will need to be made before webservices can be implemented. or the webservices can be that abstraction. I can't really have the java frontend perform queries on the db, heh. |
| 15:08.07 | lhunath | I suppose I could look into that. I'd probably enjoy doing it too. |
| 15:08.37 | lhunath | unfortunately I've a limited amount of time inbetween coming home from work and going to sleep ;P |
| 15:08.53 | PleegWat|Work | What kind of abstraction would you want? Loading data on specific characters/items? |
| 15:09.21 | PleegWat|Work | For example the memberslist is pretty much a formatted dump of the roster_members table |
| 15:09.30 | lhunath | I was basically thinking of entity classes for everything. Like Guild, Character, Item, Spell, ... |
| 15:09.54 | PleegWat|Work | There are such classes for some things, but there's hardly any logic in most. |
| 15:09.56 | lhunath | then webservices performing requests on those like lhunath.getSpells() |
| 15:09.58 | PleegWat|Work | So they're hardly used |
| 15:10.04 | PleegWat|Work | item contains the item parsing. |
| 15:10.17 | PleegWat|Work | Char is 90% display, and got moved tot he (character) info addon |
| 15:10.23 | lhunath | then those classes would hide the queries from the webapp or frontend. |
| 15:11.13 | lhunath | the webapp or frontend would just have to worry about which method call to execute to obtain the data; not what queries to construct. |
| 15:11.36 | PleegWat|Work | I wouldn't have a frontend formulating queries |
| 15:11.44 | lhunath | exactly. |
| 15:11.59 | lhunath | though a webapp is technically also a frontend. |
| 15:12.04 | PleegWat|Work | But you'd be fetching stuff like roster/char/xml/full/a=c:lhunath@EU-someserver.html |
| 15:12.35 | PleegWat|Work | The php works directly on the database, but the access/permission logic is in the same php layer. There's no real separation. |
| 15:13.37 | PleegWat|Work | from that path you'd recieve an xml file with detailed data on that character. |
| 15:13.47 | PleegWat|Work | I think json is supported in php too, but not by default |
| 15:13.50 | lhunath | an abstraction layer would only make sense if the webapp and any rich client frontend were both using it imo. |
| 15:14.05 | lhunath | hmm. |
| 15:14.27 | PleegWat|Work | We plan to layer stuff more for the rewrite |
| 15:14.29 | lhunath | I suppose I could do it like that as well. |
| 15:14.37 | PleegWat|Work | but I personally doubt if that will ever get done |
| 15:14.47 | lhunath | if that info can be output in the form of xml rather than html. |
| 15:15.10 | PleegWat|Work | json isn't in by default till php 5.2.0, so that's out. But XML is no problem. |
| 15:15.34 | lhunath | what'd be really nifty in that case would be if the output was xml with an xslt link in it that made it render into xhtml for browsers but stay xml for graphical frontends. |
| 15:16.14 | PleegWat|Work | That's a completely different form of working than we're doing right now. Noone on the roster team has any proficiency with xslt |
| 15:16.33 | lhunath | yeah; it takes a complete rewrite. |
| 15:16.54 | lhunath | it just sounds nifty; heh. |
| 15:16.58 | PleegWat|Work | Plus a lot of surrounding stuff like the menu is dynamic as well, but it wouldn't make sense for that to be in the same xml as the data |
| 15:17.02 | PleegWat|Work | Takes a lot of js |
| 15:17.21 | lhunath | no; it'd be in the xslt stylesheet. |
| 15:17.35 | PleegWat|Work | Generate the xslt dynamically? |
| 15:17.38 | PleegWat|Work | I suppose we could. |
| 15:17.42 | PleegWat|Work | Does xslt do sorting? |
| 15:17.51 | PleegWat|Work | meh scratch that |
| 15:17.53 | lhunath | xslt can do sorting, surely. |
| 15:18.07 | PleegWat|Work | I might, at some point, look at it. But don't hold your breath. |
| 15:18.33 | lhunath | I shan't. it's been said it's not healthy. |
| 15:18.43 | PleegWat|Work | For now, see if you can post some preferences for xml entry points on the forums. |
| 15:19.14 | PleegWat|Work | We've got guild data, guild member data, and character data on several levels. |
| 15:19.20 | lhunath | I'll probably start gearing up once my end-year holidays start. |
| 15:19.43 | PleegWat|Work | Guild members have about the data that's visible in the memberslist for members without a link from their name |
| 15:20.12 | lhunath | it's a heap of data waiting to be played with. |
| 15:20.28 | PleegWat|Work | Characters with CP uploads have separate tables for skills, spells, bag contents, professions, etc, which I could serve in the same or separate xml files. |
| 15:21.14 | lhunath | it could be a fulltime job visualizing all this data into different aspects. |
| 15:21.29 | lhunath | charts, summaries, comparisons, advice |
| 15:21.35 | PleegWat|Work | Yeah |
| 15:22.44 | PleegWat|Work | Some real limitations though in the current data model. For example, you can't fetch an item by ID. You have to pass a member or guild ID, since items are copied per member/guild bank that has it, and even for each time that member/guild bank has it. That's a major weakness of the current data model. |
| 15:23.24 | PleegWat|Work | But it's not easily fixable, plus calvin has been wanting to fix it in CP for a long time as well and we're sort of waiting for that too |
| 15:24.04 | lhunath | doesn't every wow item have an itemid? |
| 15:24.10 | lhunath | this id isn't recorded in cp? |
| 15:24.10 | PleegWat|Work | it does |
| 15:24.13 | PleegWat|Work | we do |
| 15:24.16 | PleegWat|Work | but we don't key on it |
| 15:24.25 | lhunath | unfortunate. |
| 15:24.30 | PleegWat|Work | Plus we're storing the tooltip as-is, not parsed. |
| 15:24.49 | lhunath | oh; you're getting it out ofthe tooltip? |
| 15:24.54 | lhunath | or would have to. |
| 15:25.21 | PleegWat|Work | I'm probably gonna change that as soon as roster 2.0 releases. Store items independant of character/guild. Parse before storing. |
| 15:25.38 | lhunath | it would help. |
| 15:25.40 | PleegWat|Work | Would probably result in 2-3 tables to store the base item and the properties |
| 15:26.00 | PleegWat|Work | But would result in some localization trouble. |
| 15:26.20 | PleegWat|Work | Since CP only gets us the itemID, quantity, name, and tooltip |
| 15:26.32 | lhunath | the tooltip backgrounds aren't always showing in Opera, I noticed. |
| 15:26.37 | lhunath | haven't tried another browser yet. |
| 15:26.48 | PleegWat|Work | haven't seen any issues with it in FF yet |
| 15:27.30 | PleegWat|Work | The only major problem I've seen in FF is that the menu bar sometimes contains breaks for no reason. I suspect that to be a problem with incremental rendering in firefox, but IE does it too |
| 15:27.43 | PleegWat|Work | So might be a problem with incremental rendering in general |
| 15:27.57 | PleegWat|Work | Anyway, it's time for me to go off to home. |
| 15:28.06 | PleegWat|Work | Be back on in 2 hours or so |
| 15:28.09 | lhunath | cheers. |
| 15:57.47 | *** join/#wowroster Zanix|Work (n=Zanix@71.216.154.51) |
| 15:58.01 | Zanix|Work | morning |
| 15:59.29 | *** join/#wowroster DrWily (n=drwily@user-0c2h2qe.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 16:52.20 | *** join/#wowroster Tupsi (n=Miranda@pD95FD785.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:36.02 | lhunath | zanix|work: morning. |
| 17:36.20 | Zanix|Work | hi lhunath |
| 17:37.15 | lhunath | pleegwat and I were just considdering some webservices in wowroster so that people can make their own clients for it. |
| 17:37.35 | lhunath | or access the guild information they like for their own purposes |
| 17:37.57 | lhunath | which I could then use to integrate it into NetherPanel (as renamed from jUniUploader) |
| 17:38.13 | lhunath | and make a sort of java frontend to wowroster. |
| 17:38.19 | Zanix|Work | ah |
| 17:38.33 | Zanix|Work | I rad part of it before I went to work this morning |
| 17:38.35 | Zanix|Work | read |
| 17:39.27 | Zanix|Work | sounds like a good idea |
| 17:39.31 | Zanix|Work | lots of work though |
| 17:40.03 | Zanix|Work | ...but most of anything thats cool or useful usually is alot fo work |
| 17:41.31 | lhunath | heh indeed. |
| 17:42.24 | lhunath | you're on a strange clock going to work as I leave it to come home. |
| 17:42.56 | lhunath | hm; must be american. |
| 17:43.47 | Zanix|Work | yep |
| 17:43.52 | Zanix|Work | 10:43am here |
| 18:45.02 | *** join/#wowroster Zanix_Work (n=Zanix@71.216.154.51) |
| 21:37.04 | *** join/#wowroster Zanix|Work (n=Zanix@71.216.154.51) |