| 00:02.46 | Kaydeethree | what's up with the questions today? 3 different posts about model changing... |
| 00:03.31 | Shirik | things haven't change then I see |
| 00:03.52 | Kaydeethree | meh, my first post in a month and a half was my c/p model changing response |
| 00:04.05 | Lunessa | Because it's zomgkewlhax to have models changed. |
| 00:04.20 | Corrodias | that Rebirth-sometimes-doesn't-work bug was partly responsible for us failing on maulgar last night |
| 00:04.28 | Corrodias | although the rest of it was totally our fault |
| 00:04.48 | Shirik | in theory you can argue rebirth should never be necessary |
| 00:04.51 | Shirik | it's just helpful |
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| 00:05.34 | Corrodias | partly responsible -- our warlock didn't get the rez |
| 00:05.42 | Corrodias | he beat us with about 40k health left :( |
| 00:06.19 | Kaydeethree | which of the 5 was killing people? |
| 00:06.19 | Shirik | better than wiping to prince with about 2k health |
| 00:06.29 | Shirik | I feel mostly responsible for that failure, I was the last standing |
| 00:06.37 | Shirik | but I realized when he started charging me that I suck at dps close range |
| 00:06.56 | Kaydeethree | I was responsible for a <5k wipe on leotheras... got myself killed early |
| 00:07.07 | Corrodias | not sure, Kaydeethree. by the time we got to maulgar, i think we had numerous people dead. |
| 00:10.43 | Shirik | tbh |
| 00:10.46 | Shirik | if you get to maulgar, you should have it |
| 00:10.50 | Shirik | 95% of that fight is the pull |
| 00:10.55 | Kaydeethree | ya |
| 00:11.00 | Shirik | if you get to maulgar, it's easy cakes from there |
| 00:11.08 | Shirik | but if you had like one dps left |
| 00:11.12 | Shirik | not exactly gonna work :P |
| 00:11.16 | Shirik | but that was over before maulgar |
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| 00:26.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge |Pixel| (i=pixel@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Pixel) |
| 00:26.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Outlandheal (n=Twilight@c-68-59-99-143.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 00:26.28 | Outlandheal | evening all, anyoen care to help me wiht a few scripting questions? |
| 00:28.03 | cladhaire | feel free to ask =) |
| 00:28.08 | cladhaire | and we'll see who jumps |
| 00:28.09 | Outlandheal | okay cool :) |
| 00:28.12 | Outlandheal | lol |
| 00:28.16 | Shirik | never ask to ask |
| 00:28.19 | Shirik | just ask the question |
| 00:29.20 | Outlandheal | first, i would like to know what GlueXML folder contents are used for, i know they handle stuff lke login, and i noticed somewhere that they had locked them down(dunno if thats true, but when i change them it says my login is corrupt) |
| 00:29.36 | cladhaire | you can't replace them in teh mpq |
| 00:29.36 | Shirik | You can't change any of that stuff |
| 00:29.40 | Shirik | you used to be a long time ago |
| 00:29.46 | Shirik | a LONG long time ago |
| 00:29.49 | Outlandheal | but it seems weird as to why they would lock functions like changing music |
| 00:29.52 | cladhaire | and you can no longer override them in the folders either |
| 00:29.54 | Shirik | but that posed a huge security risk to they dropped it |
| 00:29.57 | Outlandheal | yea, i figured :( |
| 00:29.57 | cladhaire | its not just that |
| 00:30.00 | cladhaire | GlueXML is locked down to prevent people from messing with passwords, etc. |
| 00:30.07 | cladhaire | and it was easier to lock it all down than just piecemeal |
| 00:30.17 | Outlandheal | yea, i can see the logging issu happeneing, as well as key logging |
| 00:31.29 | Outlandheal | is there a function to stop it from calling a function? i am occosionally getting errors that it cant find an ambience for a specific character, blizzard has fixed this alot, butit keeps coming back, i was wondering if there was a way to stop it from calling race specific things(as it happens to the trolls i make) |
| 00:31.53 | Shirik | a function to stop it from calling a function |
| 00:32.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dnmcgoy (n=dnmcgoy@64.191.184.157) |
| 00:32.16 | Shirik | addons don't get loaded until you enter the game world |
| 00:32.17 | Outlandheal | lol, yea i know... im feeling off today so i dont make alot of sense when i try to say soemthing complex |
| 00:32.25 | Shirik | if you're meaning anything before that (I think you are), then you can't do it |
| 00:32.44 | Shirik | if you're meaning in the game world, you would be able to hook the function, set it to a noop or something, but I don't think that's what you want to do |
| 00:33.07 | dnmcgoy | hi all, anyone willing to help me with some interface questions? got some templatey stuff to I'm trying to figure out |
| 00:33.15 | Shirik | ~asktoask |
| 00:33.18 | Outlandheal | i figured, but logging into a character then logging out, dousnt it save variables or anything, and isnt there an onload frameXML event.. or is it not possible to select a login interface frame? |
| 00:33.39 | Shirik | purl, asktoask is <reply> This is IRC. Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help. |
| 00:33.40 | purl | Shirik: okay |
| 00:34.15 | Shirik | no, because nothing gets loaded until you enter the game world |
| 00:34.27 | Shirik | you can save variables, sure, but they won't be loaded until you enter the game world again |
| 00:34.37 | |Pixel| | nothing addon-related that you can change that is |
| 00:35.02 | Shirik | I said that a while back I didn't find the need to reiterate it |
| 00:35.14 | Shirik | it starts to sound rude when you say the same things over and over again |
| 00:35.22 | Outlandheal | hmm, that makes sense... so there is no way to stop that bug? it is becoming annoying when i want to play my main and i have to wait 2 days because of something blizzard locked down |
| 00:35.24 | |Pixel| | depends :) |
| 00:35.30 | Shirik | unfortunately sometimes I go for that effect and they don't pick it up -_- |
| 00:35.45 | Shirik | That sounds like a strange bug |
| 00:35.47 | Shirik | havey ou run the repair tool? |
| 00:35.59 | Outlandheal | it is, and i ahve run it, numerous times, ive even reinstalled wow |
| 00:36.19 | Outlandheal | it is a server side issue, it doesnt even display my race or level at hte character login screen |
| 00:36.25 | Shirik | "Looking for ace2 equivalents" ... "Lightheaded" |
| 00:36.29 | Shirik | I've given up hope on the owrld |
| 00:36.30 | Outlandheal | some peopel on the forums are having my trouble |
| 00:36.32 | cladhaire | waitwhat? |
| 00:36.33 | Shirik | s/ow/wo/ |
| 00:36.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r54h77.res.gatech.edu) |
| 00:36.48 | |Pixel| | Shirik: one of the first thing you learn when you get to teach people (at the university for example) is that students only get roughly 10% of what you tell them |
| 00:36.50 | dnmcgoy | ah, sorry about that.. the question: here's a jist of what I'm trying to do: create my own layout for containers for abilities (kinda like the spell bar at the bottom).. in order to do this I believe I need to find a template for that container, but I'm having trouble finding it. Thing is that I'm trying to search wowwiki (as well as googling it) and I'm either running into uncomment wiki pages, or nothing much at all.. is there a listing of templat |
| 00:36.57 | |Pixel| | so, sometime, repeating stuff is useful :) |
| 00:37.04 | Shirik | I could never be a teacher |
| 00:37.05 | cladhaire | Shirik: *sigh* |
| 00:37.08 | cladhaire | where is this? |
| 00:37.12 | Shirik | where do you think |
| 00:37.24 | Shirik | the #1 place to find stupid posts like that |
| 00:37.32 | Shirik | oh, Clique's in there too |
| 00:37.38 | Shirik | figured I'd give you warning before you go ballistic |
| 00:37.52 | JoshBorke | too late |
| 00:38.02 | Shirik | dnmcgoy: You mean like clickable? |
| 00:38.04 | Outlandheal | how are the the glueXML files locked down? a .sig? |
| 00:38.17 | Shirik | you can't modify any blizzard files, period |
| 00:38.20 | Shirik | they're all signed |
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| 00:38.45 | Outlandheal | yea, i figured that, thank you very much for your help shirik i apprecciatte it :) |
| 00:39.13 | Shirik | I've never tried hooking a gluexml function but I imagine it's in a different environment |
| 00:39.31 | dnmcgoy | well, here's the entire idea: I'm going to have a "button" (its not really a button because its not clickable) that when you move your mouse over, it opens a layout of spell slots that looks like a keyboard. You can click and drag spells to any "key" on this keyboard in order to assign that spell to the designated key on the keyboard |
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| 00:40.12 | Shirik | ok |
| 00:40.23 | Shirik | then you can press the keyboard button? |
| 00:40.40 | Shirik | to cast it |
| 00:40.53 | Shirik | but these buttons wouldn't be clickable |
| 00:41.14 | dnmcgoy | the physical keyboard button yes.. its like a way to assign keys presses.. in a much easier form |
| 00:41.29 | cladhaire | *sigh* |
| 00:41.32 | cladhaire | the world is dead to me |
| 00:41.32 | cladhaire | heh |
| 00:42.24 | dnmcgoy | I have an idea of how to do nearly everything concerned.. I'm just wishing there was some documentation on the templates I can inherit from |
| 00:42.40 | Shirik | eh, well what template do you want? |
| 00:42.42 | dnmcgoy | instead of me having to search the entirety of framexml |
| 00:42.42 | cladhaire | the documentation is the code, which template are you concerned with? |
| 00:42.44 | Shirik | what do you want it to accomplish? |
| 00:42.58 | Shirik | if the buttons were clickable, it would be easy |
| 00:43.08 | Shirik | well, the identifying part is easy |
| 00:43.13 | Shirik | the actual implementation would be a bit of a pain |
| 00:43.25 | Shirik | but if you don't want them clickable, I don't see the reason for a template |
| 00:43.35 | Shirik | just handle it yourself :) |
| 00:43.58 | dnmcgoy | heh.. what template is concerned with the slots that are at the bottom of the default interface? |
| 00:45.12 | cladhaire | which "slots"? |
| 00:45.33 | dnmcgoy | the spell slots in which you assign spells to 1 2 3 4 .. etc... |
| 00:45.33 | Shirik | the action bar I think he means |
| 00:45.45 | Shirik | but I promise you that's going to be a lot more work than you want it to be |
| 00:45.46 | |Pixel| | I think what he means hs "where can I find the sourcode of the template of the clickable buttons at the bottom of my screen, so I can get inspiration in order to write my own non-clickable template" |
| 00:45.50 | Shirik | you'll need to generate a secure state header too, etc. |
| 00:46.00 | Shirik | showing and hiding secure frames is not entirely fun |
| 00:46.23 | Shirik | unless you don't want it to work mid-combat. I know you can say "Oh but who would change their binds mid combat" |
| 00:46.40 | Shirik | I have, and there is no good reason to not allow for that |
| 00:46.57 | Shirik | to answer your question directly |
| 00:47.00 | Shirik | SecureActionButton |
| 00:47.24 | Shirik | it's ok cladhaire /hug |
| 00:47.36 | Shirik | at least we aren't alone |
| 00:48.00 | |Pixel| | :) |
| 00:48.58 | cladhaire | but it feels so cold |
| 00:49.00 | cladhaire | *hold me* |
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| 00:49.40 | |Pixel| | this is usually when the guy who's gonna die learns the other one is gay and that he always loved him at first sight |
| 00:50.15 | Xuerian | You watch too much gay porn. |
| 00:50.29 | cladhaire | this whole thing |
| 00:50.34 | |Pixel| | or hot shot |
| 00:50.40 | cladhaire | is no different from all those assholes who said "You'll have no users if you dont' host at curse-gaming" |
| 00:50.51 | Laraul | The addon names used in the Dependencies tag, those names are the names of the TOC file right? |
| 00:50.54 | cladhaire | blegh |
| 00:51.13 | Xuerian | Who said that/this current thing? |
| 00:51.23 | cladhaire | just the ace svn |
| 00:51.35 | Xuerian | buh. |
| 00:51.36 | cladhaire | and the monstrocity its become |
| 00:51.49 | cladhaire | and the fact that _users_ are now telling me where to host my version control system |
| 00:51.50 | cladhaire | *boggle* |
| 00:52.03 | cladhaire | worst idea ever |
| 00:52.03 | Laraul | vcs for what? |
| 00:52.10 | *** kick/#wowi-lounge [cladhaire!n=cladhair@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire] by cladhaire (then you shoudln't have come up with it, morong.) |
| 00:52.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire (n=cladhair@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire) |
| 00:52.15 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o cladhaire] by ChanServ |
| 00:52.17 | cladhaire | WITH A G |
| 00:52.17 | Xuerian | I'm all for the svn, frankly, but that's just stupid. |
| 00:52.49 | dnmcgoy | git is supposedly doing pretty awesoem |
| 00:52.49 | Laraul | For what exactly? |
| 00:54.32 | Shirik | btw cladhaire if you ever need to take out your frustration |
| 00:54.42 | cladhaire | gun? |
| 00:54.42 | Shirik | you're more than welcome to kick me. What with autorejoin I wouldn't even notice |
| 00:54.55 | cladhaire | Shirik: then i could ban you, since autorejoin is against freenode policy =) |
| 00:54.58 | Lunessa | cladhaire: /comfort |
| 00:54.58 | cladhaire | that would be refreshing |
| 00:55.03 | dnmcgoy | Shirik: that seems to be the right direction.. I had read ActionButton and wasn't sure it's what I needed.. hmm.. if I make them clickable it should be really easy.. and since I'm not showing them when the user isn't dragging something to them, it should probably behave how I'd like |
| 00:55.05 | cladhaire | but would only last for a minute or so |
| 00:55.07 | Shirik | Aside from the big glaring red 4kickedsign but hey |
| 00:55.12 | cladhaire | kicking myself seems to be more satisfying |
| 00:55.17 | Shirik | 202:522:11 » @cladhaire was 4kicked by cladhaire 2then you shoudln't have come up with it, morong.2 |
| 00:55.18 | Shirik | like that one |
| 00:55.45 | Shirik | I haven't seen any "against freenode policy" |
| 00:55.51 | Shirik | besides, I live on the edge |
| 00:56.03 | Shirik | ActionButton isn't supported anymore |
| 00:56.05 | JoshBorke | i don't think git would work well for ace svn |
| 00:56.07 | Xuerian | Wasn't colored for me... |
| 00:56.08 | Shirik | I'm surprised it even still exists |
| 00:56.14 | Shirik | it's colored for me because I'm special =P |
| 00:56.23 | Shirik | 202:562:19 » 12[CTCP VERSION reply from Xuerian12]: Miranda IM 0.7.0.30 (IRC v 0.6.4.0), (c) J Persson 2003 - 2005 |
| 00:56.25 | Shirik | your own fault. |
| 00:56.25 | Lunessa | Short-bus spec ial? |
| 00:56.45 | Xuerian | I'm fine with it not colored |
| 00:56.54 | Shirik | well fine. I will enjoy my colorness |
| 00:57.02 | Shirik | I also get gold |
| 00:57.04 | Xuerian | I have no problem with it being colored, either |
| 00:57.06 | Shirik | 202:542:55 12@8cladhaire12 Shirik: then i could ban you, since autorejoin is against freenode policy =) |
| 00:57.09 | Shirik | see :D |
| 00:57.24 | Lunessa | I <3 PerfectRaid and Clique. |
| 00:57.29 | Xuerian | Lunessa: Amen |
| 00:57.33 | Shirik | Clique does nothing except cause me problems |
| 00:57.42 | cladhaire | Shirik: thats cause you chose to roll your own click-casting |
| 00:57.43 | cladhaire | nub |
| 00:57.49 | cladhaire | its easy to work along with clique |
| 00:57.58 | Xuerian | Still missing per-frame clicks though =( |
| 00:57.58 | Lunessa | ... Clad beat me to the punch. |
| 00:58.00 | Shirik | If Clique didn't exist, I wouldn't have people running to me "halp my RDX don't work" |
| 00:58.09 | Shirik | hey, that's Cidan's fault not mine! |
| 00:58.22 | Shirik | I tried to rewrite it but I *headdesk*ed when I read his code |
| 00:58.34 | Lunessa | ... Yank it? |
| 00:58.37 | Shirik | I might |
| 00:58.40 | cladhaire | i warned him |
| 00:58.42 | cladhaire | via email |
| 00:58.45 | Shirik | but we're planning to rewrite the entire window system anyway so |
| 00:58.47 | cladhaire | along with every other unit frame author i could |
| 00:58.58 | Shirik | we might as well just save it for when we do that |
| 00:59.51 | Lunessa | I'll admit, I never used "WatchDog" 'cause that thing spooked me. But Clique = Love. |
| 01:01.12 | Xuerian | clique is love. |
| 01:01.19 | Shirik | Clique and RDX get along well enough to get by for now |
| 01:02.46 | dnmcgoy | so what's the difference between secure and non-secure items? |
| 01:03.21 | Shirik | This goes back to before WoW 2.0 Basically first you have to understand what is meant by a secure variable and "tainting" |
| 01:03.31 | Shirik | Blizzard code is secure, non-blizzard code isn't. Simple enough. |
| 01:03.48 | Shirik | However, when you go modifying things, even things created by blizzard, then they become "tainted" (insecure) |
| 01:03.48 | |Pixel| | theorically speaking, of course :P |
| 01:04.17 | Laraul | Why does WOW use TOC files? Why not just us XML? |
| 01:04.30 | Shirik | CreateFrame() is a secure function, for example. It's made by blizzard. But if I were to go ahead and do CreateFrame = function() return {} end |
| 01:04.38 | Shirik | it would become insecure (and also break everything, but that's another ordeal) |
| 01:04.58 | Kaydeethree | because those toc files are just dummies, just making sure that no addons are created with that name |
| 01:05.01 | Shirik | As for secure and insecure templates, it follows the same path. First you have to understand that there are certain functions that are "protected" |
| 01:05.13 | Shirik | Protected functions, like CastSpellByName, can only be called from secure code |
| 01:05.16 | sylvanaar | toc files are actually a mystery |
| 01:05.20 | Laraul | You could do the same with XML though |
| 01:05.38 | Shirik | Laraul: No you can't, but I'm talking to dnmcgoy right now so I can't go into details >< |
| 01:05.44 | dnmcgoy | otherwise you could put a timer on it, I'd assume |
| 01:05.54 | dnmcgoy | which, makes breaking the game possible.. which is bad |
| 01:06.08 | Shirik | dnmcgoy: So now, when YOU want to be able to make an addon that can cast something, you'll need to use a secure frame |
| 01:06.24 | Shirik | secure frames are specifically designed so that you can manipulate them to do what you want (that blizzard wants you to be able to do) without tainting them |
| 01:06.32 | |Jelly| | Shirik: Why is Kimina not 70? Or have the boards not updated? :( |
| 01:06.56 | Shirik | for example, a standard unit frame you would need to do frame:SetScript("OnClick", function() CastSpellByName("Power Word: Fortitude"); end); |
| 01:07.05 | Shirik | but you can't do that, you're in an insecure function |
| 01:07.40 | Shirik | secure unit frames have the ability of doing frame:SetAttribute("type", "cast"); frame:SetAttribute("unit", "target"); frame:SetAttribute("spell", "Pwer Word: Fortitude") |
| 01:07.42 | Shirik | spelled correctly, of course |
| 01:07.49 | Shirik | |Jelly|: Because I haven't been able to play |
| 01:08.12 | Shirik | They both do the same thing, but YOU can do the second. You can't do the first |
| 01:08.16 | Shirik | Only Blizzard can do the first |
| 01:08.20 | Shirik | (And even they don't anymore, iirc) |
| 01:09.13 | Shirik | Now, Laraul: XML is a great language, it's very versatile |
| 01:09.31 | Shirik | But it wasn't designed to handle something like what TOCs are for. It would become much more bloated than TOCs are |
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| 01:09.50 | Shirik | there is no reason to understand a parenting structure in a TOC file, which XML excels at |
| 01:10.03 | Shirik | so you'd be making a much larger file that would be much harder to parse for zero gain |
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| 01:10.26 | Shirik | Instead, TOC files are easy to read (both by the user and by the computer) and get the job done quickly |
| 01:10.27 | dnmcgoy | so as long as I call secure frame's functions from my own that's fine, but modifying the operation of that frame is what is being discouraged |
| 01:10.34 | Shirik | correct |
| 01:10.44 | Shirik | you CAN POST-hook functions if you wanted to |
| 01:10.50 | dnmcgoy | err.. not discouraged, but outright dissallowed |
| 01:10.56 | Shirik | for example, you can modify CastSpellByName to output a message every time it's called |
| 01:11.02 | Shirik | without breaking functionality |
| 01:11.18 | dnmcgoy | so, if I want make actionbuttons that behave exactly like the ones on the action bar, I'm all good, and can arrange them at will |
| 01:11.41 | Shirik | but you can't do it by doing local cs = CastSpellByName; CastSpellByName = function(...) cs(...) DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(...) end |
| 01:11.55 | dnmcgoy | however, if I say "I don't want you to be able to click to cast a spell" that is dissallowed because then I'd have to modify the behavior of the actionbutton object |
| 01:12.00 | Shirik | you have to do hooksecurefunc("CastSpellByName", function(...) DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(...) end)) |
| 01:12.07 | Shirik | Correct |
| 01:12.18 | Shirik | now, you can set ATTRIBUTES which will tell the frame how it should operate |
| 01:12.27 | Shirik | but it's not the same as outright changing how the frame works |
| 01:12.41 | Shirik | for example, a unit frame has a "type" attribute. That tells the frame what it should do when you click it |
| 01:13.03 | Shirik | the type "cast" indicates to cast a spell. The type "target" indicates to target a unit. The type "macro" indicates to run a macro, etc. |
| 01:13.24 | Shirik | But you can't go in and say make an OnClick script, do some testing, decide what you want to do, and do it |
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| 01:13.52 | Shirik | also, more importantly, attributes can only be set while out of combat |
| 01:13.54 | dnmcgoy | that's a pity, but I understand why they do it |
| 01:14.06 | Shirik | (There are exceptions but that gets into real details which you might not be prepared for yet ^^;) |
| 01:15.17 | cladhaire | if the publisher gets this out before christmas, I think it will end up being really useful, heh |
| 01:15.43 | dnmcgoy | I don't think someone will use this out of combat, otherwise they can use the preexisting actionbar |
| 01:16.11 | Shirik | this is your decision, but to be honest there's no real reason for you to use a secure frame |
| 01:16.28 | Shirik | Your frames aren't acting on anything, am I understanding that correctly? |
| 01:16.39 | sylvanaar | i still really dont know why they did it, it just widened the gap between the tech savvy and the default UI ppl |
| 01:17.02 | |Pixel| | why ? because it was meant to defeat decursive |
| 01:17.06 | Shirik | well, I guess you COULD set them up as action bars |
| 01:17.08 | dnmcgoy | it may be.. do you consider changing the contents of the existing action bar "acting" on something? |
| 01:17.12 | |Pixel| | and other similar stuff |
| 01:17.16 | Shirik | if you use action bars |
| 01:17.30 | Shirik | you really have two options here |
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| 01:17.42 | Shirik | you can have your frames be action bars so that when a spell is dragged onto them, the binding will be handled automatically |
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| 01:18.02 | Shirik | the unfortunate complication of that is you have to do a lot of checking so you don't show/hide in combat, or you have to set up a secure state header (not fun) |
| 01:18.18 | Shirik | the checking so you don't do it in combat is easy though |
| 01:18.38 | Shirik | but, if you wanted to do that, then you're looking for SecureActionButtons and ActionBars |
| 01:18.44 | Shirik | and that is located in.... |
| 01:18.47 | Lunessa | I thought he was just basically doing a SetBinding for items drag-and-dropped on to his frame. |
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| 01:19.05 | Shirik | that was my method |
| 01:19.15 | Shirik | and that's why I say you don't really need a secure frame |
| 01:19.52 | Lunessa | :nod: Right. He just need a frame that can accept drag and drop and do the binding. |
| 01:19.57 | Shirik | http://wdn.wowinterface.com/code/live/FrameXML/ActionButton.lua |
| 01:20.01 | Shirik | http://wdn.wowinterface.com/code/live/FrameXML/ActionBarFrame.xml |
| 01:20.16 | dnmcgoy | heh.. got those two open in emacs as we speak |
| 01:20.17 | dnmcgoy | lol |
| 01:20.36 | Shirik | RANGE_INDICATOR = "β"; |
| 01:20.40 | Shirik | you have no idea how much I hate that hack |
| 01:21.18 | Shirik | that's almost as bad as -- HACK -- END HACK |
| 01:21.22 | cladhaire | *cry* |
| 01:21.25 | cladhaire | i want to stab this. |
| 01:21.36 | Shirik | same thread? |
| 01:21.42 | cladhaire | yes |
| 01:21.42 | dnmcgoy | wow, is that actually an ascii character? |
| 01:22.26 | Lunessa | <3 for Clad. |
| 01:22.29 | JoshBorke | what thread? |
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| 01:22.47 | Lunessa | The "Please drink the KoolAid" thread. |
| 01:22.56 | Lunessa | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=330656744&sid=1 |
| 01:23.57 | dnmcgoy | (man I wish I had my home linux machine up and running.. I miss shell commands so much.. it makes finding stuff so much easier) |
| 01:24.35 | Shirik | lies cladhaire you totally do it for the power trip |
| 01:24.53 | Shirik | scite has a find in files feature you may be interested in |
| 01:24.57 | Shirik | gives you grep on windows :) |
| 01:25.44 | bleeter | Kaydeethree: fyi, i think I've made a small amount of progress on my OSS PTR issue. Seems to be related to the snd- module order, eg which card/where is in slot-0, slot-1 etc. |
| 01:26.04 | Kaydeethree | hrm |
| 01:26.06 | Kaydeethree | interesting |
| 01:26.40 | dnmcgoy | I'm thinking I'll either download eclipse or make an emacs macro that pushes a perl script |
| 01:26.45 | Kaydeethree | and oh geez... the pain. roommate just told me what the power bill was for last month... $166. /cringe |
| 01:26.50 | bleeter | I'd set the default sound to AC97, slot-0 was still my ICE1712... no banana. Changed the order around so slot-0 was the AC97... bingo |
| 01:27.02 | dnmcgoy | I actualy haven't tried that.. I wonder if grep will work in perl on windows.. hmm |
| 01:27.11 | Kaydeethree | working sound? interesting. I'll give that a shot in a sec |
| 01:27.18 | Shirik | just grab cygwin |
| 01:27.37 | bleeter | Kaydeethree: aye, it worked for long enough for me to discover the PTR's are empty @ 4AM, so I left lol |
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| 01:28.34 | Lunessa | Kaydeethree: Air conditioning will do that to you. |
| 01:28.53 | Kaydeethree | ya... I'm just used to sub-$100 bills |
| 01:29.10 | Shirik | Kaydeethree where do you live |
| 01:29.16 | Shirik | I live in florida and I don't have it that bad |
| 01:29.24 | Kaydeethree | south georgia |
| 01:29.31 | Kaydeethree | statesboro, to be specific |
| 01:29.46 | Lunessa | Muggy as all hell and no wind... |
| 01:30.43 | Shirik | that around where that wildfire was last year? |
| 01:30.45 | Shirik | well a few months ago |
| 01:30.50 | Shirik | like 4ish |
| 01:31.07 | Kaydeethree | nah, that was further west of us. atlanta got it worse than we did. the merest bit of the seabreeze we get helped a lot |
| 01:31.17 | Shirik | sucked for me |
| 01:31.21 | Kaydeethree | think an hour away from savannah up I-16 |
| 01:31.25 | Shirik | I don't know how but you could see the smoke all the way from where I was |
| 01:31.36 | Shirik | I mean it wasn't bad or anything but you look down the runway you can barely see the other side |
| 01:34.07 | Shirik | So anyone here watch fate/stay night? |
| 01:34.17 | Kaydeethree | the ending kinda let me down |
| 01:34.21 | Kaydeethree | good series, though |
| 01:34.30 | Shirik | haven't seen it all yet :( I'm just staying with the DVD releases |
| 01:34.42 | Shirik | I figure it can't end well though |
| 01:34.49 | Shirik | saber can't stay forever... |
| 01:35.27 | Shirik | I like it though :) And I have the damn theme song stuck in my head |
| 01:35.41 | Shirik | It's really bad when you know the words but don't know the language |
| 01:35.45 | Kaydeethree | meh. it's a lot easier to not drop spoilers for f/sn than it is for harry potter 7 |
| 01:35.48 | Kaydeethree | I know the feeling |
| 01:36.50 | Shirik | I have a problem with the harry potter movies |
| 01:36.56 | Shirik | And I really don't want to go see them |
| 01:37.08 | Kaydeethree | 5 was an exercise in artistic license |
| 01:37.14 | Shirik | but what with all the media coverage and my cousins, it's somewhat unavoidable |
| 01:37.23 | Kaydeethree | but otherwise good |
| 01:37.36 | Shirik | Yeah I saw it |
| 01:37.41 | Shirik | and I agree |
| 01:38.53 | Shirik | I think... yeah I'm probably headed out ^^ |
| 01:38.56 | Shirik | take care guys |
| 01:39.01 | cladhaire | night |
| 01:39.04 | dnmcgoy | thanks again Shirik |
| 01:39.06 | JoshBorke | night |
| 01:39.08 | Lunessa | I saw it last night, and I saw the trailer for the film/books Clad was talking about the other day. |
| 01:39.10 | Kaydeethree | g'night |
| 01:39.19 | Lunessa | Night Shirik |
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| 01:56.20 | Shirik | and I have returned |
| 01:56.25 | Shirik | sadly, this time on dialup |
| 01:56.39 | Shirik | Kaydeethree: You were right, actually. When my aunt came home I asked her, she said it was cable in, dial out |
| 01:57.01 | Kaydeethree | ick. that's insanity in this day and age... |
| 01:57.03 | Shirik | because they don't yet have the capability to be bi-directional (they intend to add that capability by the end of the year) |
| 01:57.22 | Shirik | This really is a very rural area out here, you don't have much of anything ^^ |
| 01:57.44 | ScytheBlade1 | Antiarc, Omen (not Threat) suggestion: the threat pullouts should assist that person |
| 01:57.45 | Lunessa | Wow. Painful. |
| 01:58.12 | Antiarc | I'll see what I can do; dunno what secure stuff will get in the way though |
| 01:58.31 | ScytheBlade1 | As long as you pull it out ooc, it's doable |
| 02:01.24 | Lunessa | ... But everyone who tries to do it in a long boss-fight will bitch that it's broken. |
| 02:01.49 | Shirik | Kaydeethree: Back to the real reason I asked about f/sn |
| 02:01.58 | Kaydeethree | shoot |
| 02:01.59 | Shirik | I need to find somewhere to download the theme song >< |
| 02:02.04 | Shirik | any ideas? |
| 02:02.10 | Kaydeethree | hrm... gimme a sec, some of my sources may have it |
| 02:02.47 | Kaydeethree | do you want the first OP or the second? |
| 02:03.03 | Shirik | preferably both but mostly the first |
| 02:03.16 | Shirik | there's only two? :( |
| 02:03.22 | Shirik | I was looking forward to a third heh |
| 02:03.29 | Shirik | I've watched too much inuyasha, they've had like five million |
| 02:03.32 | Kaydeethree | there's only 24 eps... most anime only have 1 a season |
| 02:03.39 | Kaydeethree | iy's how many eps? |
| 02:03.43 | Shirik | yeh |
| 02:03.47 | Shirik | uh |
| 02:03.53 | Shirik | well it's not even done yet >< |
| 02:03.53 | Shirik | and it's probably closing on 200 |
| 02:03.58 | Shirik | 100* |
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| 02:05.20 | Kaydeethree | damn it... /t doesn't work in xchat. /sigh |
| 02:05.46 | cogwheel | my wife <3!s inuyasha |
| 02:06.36 | Kaydeethree | I gave up after a little while. I'm more of a fan of maison ikkoku than anything else of hers, though |
| 02:07.33 | Shirik | my favorite so far has got to be yumeria |
| 02:07.39 | Shirik | no I take that back, kimi ga nozomu eien |
| 02:07.44 | Shirik | but f/sn is really coming close |
| 02:08.52 | Lunessa | ... Wow. I'm so out of the animae loop. I still like the original Bubble GUm Crisis and Crash and similar stuff. |
| 02:10.48 | Kaydeethree | meh... I've got kne, still need to watch it |
| 02:10.50 | Xuerian | Dragonball is still funny. |
| 02:10.57 | Xuerian | Any of the permutations thereof... no |
| 02:11.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Man this per-person threat comparison is overpowered |
| 02:11.14 | Kaydeethree | db is good, it was dbz that really got me on irc and into the fanbase, so I can't rag on it too much |
| 02:11.25 | Xuerian | ScytheBlade1: ? |
| 02:11.33 | Shirik | Kaydeethree: I'm just into drama, etc. Probably why I like it and f/sn |
| 02:11.51 | Xuerian | Shirik: Deathnote? |
| 02:12.05 | Shirik | "kne" as you call it is widely regarded as a soap opera, so you might not like it |
| 02:12.23 | Shirik | Xuerian: ? |
| 02:12.44 | Xuerian | Shirik: A anime. go watch now. Full of drama. |
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| 02:12.48 | Xuerian | Good too. |
| 02:12.57 | Kaydeethree | hrm... drama. air, kanon, nodame cantible, rec, ah my goddess, kino no tabi... |
| 02:12.57 | Shirik | hm, haven't heard of it |
| 02:13.02 | Shirik | will check it out |
| 02:13.03 | Kaydeethree | what else could I classify as drama? |
| 02:13.09 | Shirik | I still need to watch ah my goddess too |
| 02:13.38 | Xuerian | Shirik: Not "highschool" drama, but lots of drama.. Slightly dark. |
| 02:14.36 | Kaydeethree | oh, can't forget saikano. but that's more than just drama |
| 02:14.40 | Shirik | I get paid this friday for the first time, maybe I'll treat myself :D |
| 02:14.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Xuerian, omen's display |
| 02:14.50 | Shirik | first time for this job at least |
| 02:15.04 | Xuerian | ScytheBlade1: Overpowered as in good or bad? |
| 02:15.15 | Xuerian | Shirik: What's the job? |
| 02:15.16 | Shirik | good |
| 02:15.33 | Xuerian | >_> |
| 02:15.54 | Shirik | my official title is "Electronic Product Engineer" |
| 02:16.13 | ScytheBlade1 | Xuerian, good |
| 02:16.55 | Xuerian | ScytheBlade1: Had to know if I was raising hackles or not... And yeah. It owns face. |
| 02:16.55 | Shirik | essentially designing and implementing circuits, and programming the microcontrollers where applicable, for embedded systems |
| 02:16.55 | ScytheBlade1 | It's stupidly nice |
| 02:16.55 | Xuerian | Shirik: Nice 0_o... something you enjoy, I take it? |
| 02:17.00 | Shirik | oh definitely fun times |
| 02:17.07 | Xuerian | Very cool =) |
| 02:17.10 | Xuerian | Sounds like it pays nicely, too |
| 02:17.24 | Shirik | I've never stared at a screen for two hours clicking to draw lines, and actually having fun |
| 02:17.34 | Shirik | getting components on a PCB that's only 0.4" wide is hard!! |
| 02:17.42 | Shirik | yeah but it's just an internship |
| 02:17.46 | Shirik | in a few weeks I'll be done |
| 02:18.04 | Xuerian | So that was a sarcastic "Fun times"? >.> |
| 02:18.10 | Kaydeethree | still, cash is cash. so is resume-filling material |
| 02:18.13 | Shirik | no, actually fun |
| 02:18.21 | Xuerian | Ah. And .4"? damn |
| 02:18.30 | Xuerian | Robotic nickles? :p |
| 02:18.32 | Shirik | I've never actually thought about how much work must go into routing motherboards |
| 02:18.37 | Shirik | pens, actually |
| 02:18.44 | Xuerian | Oh 0.o |
| 02:18.48 | Shirik | it has to detect the presence of a magnetic surface and activate an LED |
| 02:18.59 | Shirik | the pen emits a UV light, and for safety we only want it pointed at the paper |
| 02:19.02 | Shirik | never at the eyes |
| 02:19.10 | Shirik | so we make the paper with a magnet in it, and the pen senses if you're near the paper |
| 02:19.17 | Xuerian | Neat 0_o |
| 02:19.21 | dnmcgoy | sounds about like what the bios guys are dealing with where I work |
| 02:19.45 | Xuerian | Shirik: Able to say what the whole thing is for, application wise? |
| 02:19.50 | Shirik | unfortunately, my project tomorrow is to tear apart the entire circuit and redo it |
| 02:19.58 | Shirik | with only transistors and resistors |
| 02:20.01 | Shirik | no ICs |
| 02:20.04 | dnmcgoy | eww |
| 02:20.07 | Xuerian | erp |
| 02:20.12 | Shirik | they didn't like my cost estimate :P |
| 02:20.40 | Shirik | Xuerian: hm |
| 02:20.52 | Shirik | I can give you something of a hint; I don't think I'm allowed to say much more |
| 02:20.55 | Shirik | I think I've already gone too far ha |
| 02:21.25 | Xuerian | nda ftl :( |
| 02:21.40 | Shirik | I can give you a competitor's product :) |
| 02:21.42 | Xuerian | Ah well. Sounds cool anyway :P |
| 02:21.54 | Xuerian | Do tell. |
| 02:22.03 | Shirik | trying...to open... webpage... |
| 02:22.31 | Shirik | now this is just a similar idea; our implementation is actually rather different, but the general idea behind it is the same |
| 02:22.56 | Shirik | gah I give up |
| 02:22.58 | Shirik | http://www2.shopping.com/xPO-Doodle-Pro-Glow |
| 02:23.00 | Shirik | I think that's it |
| 02:23.08 | Shirik | I can't actually see it, the page refuses to load for me |
| 02:23.12 | Shirik | but the name sounds right |
| 02:23.20 | Xuerian | Neat |
| 02:23.29 | Shirik | never mind that's nothing like it haha |
| 02:23.40 | Xuerian | :P |
| 02:23.50 | Xuerian | Just didn't quite grasp the function of the device :P |
| 02:23.54 | Shirik | well here's the deal. It's paper-ish stuff, you can write on it and it'll write just like you'd expect a pen to |
| 02:23.58 | Shirik | but it's light |
| 02:24.02 | Shirik | instead of ink |
| 02:24.10 | Shirik | so there's no mess to clean up, etc. |
| 02:24.12 | dnmcgoy | so kinda like a light brite, but you don't have pegs, I'd assume |
| 02:24.24 | Shirik | no, it's more like drawing on glow in the dark paper |
| 02:24.33 | Shirik | the pen has the light, not the light behind the paper |
| 02:24.33 | Xuerian | Sweet. |
| 02:24.54 | Shirik | and I'm gonna shut up now :P |
| 02:25.02 | Xuerian | You'll have to show us when a product hits market :p |
| 02:25.23 | dnmcgoy | heheh, I know the feeling.. lots of stuff I'd like to talk about from work.. it makes me happy when they're released and I can finally talk about it |
| 02:25.25 | Shirik | but I think it's pretty cool :) There are definitely others out there because I've opened up a competitor's to see something |
| 02:25.31 | Shirik | btw, there's a lot of stupid engineers out there |
| 02:25.47 | Shirik | they hooked up the LED without a resistor, relying on the internal resistance of the battery. Save a few pennies for a shorter battery life... |
| 02:25.53 | Shirik | s/shorter battery/shorter LED/ |
| 02:25.54 | Xuerian | >.< |
| 02:26.04 | bleeter | anyone else noticed the .... erm.. fun that can be had with healthstones in BG's? |
| 02:26.13 | Shirik | fun? |
| 02:26.13 | Xuerian | bleeter: Do tell |
| 02:26.27 | bleeter | multiple stones |
| 02:26.34 | dnmcgoy | o_O |
| 02:26.38 | Shirik | one from each server or something? |
| 02:26.39 | bleeter | via talents on the lock |
| 02:26.47 | Shirik | oh, that works everywhere actually |
| 02:26.51 | Kaydeethree | that's been possible forever. raids do it all the time |
| 02:26.58 | Kaydeethree | I've got 3 spots on my hotbars for each rank of healthstone |
| 02:26.58 | bleeter | really? lol |
| 02:27.15 | bleeter | I've only ever been in raids with same rank foo then |
| 02:27.19 | Xuerian | lol |
| 02:27.21 | Shirik | I get two healthstones accidentally often |
| 02:27.28 | Shirik | since our two locks have different talent setups |
| 02:29.21 | Lunessa | Yeah. My 'lock has the talent, and another in our guild doesn't - two stoned FTW |
| 02:29.37 | |Pixel| | and there's two points in the talent; which can makes up to 3 stones |
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| 02:33.11 | Shirik | woot, my order qualifies for free super saver shipping |
| 02:33.24 | Shirik | funny how they always plan the prices so you have to buy just one more thing before you can get it |
| 02:33.39 | Kaydeethree | ya |
| 02:34.23 | Shirik | I think I cheated by tossing a preorder onto it |
| 02:34.28 | Shirik | but oh well ^^ |
| 02:34.28 | Shirik | their rules not mine |
| 02:36.09 | Xuerian | Whatcha ordering? |
| 02:36.46 | Shirik | just some CDs for a friend |
| 02:36.51 | Shirik | then I preordered fate stay night 5 ha |
| 02:37.54 | Kaydeethree | ah, fark... "Man frustrated with his computer, threw it out the window in the middle of the night. Won't be charged because the police said "Who hasn't felt like doing that?" " |
| 02:38.29 | Shirik | rofl |
| 02:38.34 | Lunessa | ROFL |
| 02:39.03 | Wobwork | http://www.cestsoparis.com/paris-humour.php?show=ad-rugby |
| 02:39.04 | Shirik | now I feel really bad for that guy that got a $3000 ticket because his cats got out of the house |
| 02:39.44 | Shirik | poor guy, his 9 cats run away, animal control finds them, returns them to him, gives them a $3k ticket (total for the 9 cats) for failure to abide by the leash law or something like that |
| 02:40.21 | Wobwork | cats on a leash? |
| 02:40.25 | Shirik | dunno |
| 02:40.30 | Shirik | not sure if that was it, but something like that |
| 02:40.34 | Shirik | failure to do something ^^ |
| 02:41.04 | Lunessa | Some jurisdictions are really vicious about animal control laws. |
| 02:41.20 | Shirik | it's not really a bad fine |
| 02:41.24 | Shirik | it's just when you have 9 cats |
| 02:41.26 | Shirik | and they ALL get loose |
| 02:41.29 | Shirik | that it gets bad >< |
| 02:41.33 | Lunessa | Yeah. |
| 02:42.26 | Kaydeethree | http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/17/235207 oh really? ... |
| 02:44.35 | Shirik | whats it say :( |
| 02:44.50 | Xuerian | HP book digicammed onto torrents |
| 02:45.07 | Shirik | huh? |
| 02:45.13 | Shirik | oh harry potter |
| 02:45.18 | Shirik | I'm thinking hewlett packard >< |
| 02:45.26 | Shirik | that's... rather interesting ha |
| 02:45.33 | Lunessa | wow... what some people won't do to get it early. |
| 02:45.39 | Kaydeethree | the quality's meh... not preventing me from buying the real book in a few days |
| 02:45.51 | Kaydeethree | but still, I was rather amused yesterday when I found it |
| 02:46.15 | Shirik | I'm just amazed someone took the time to photograph every single page, really |
| 02:46.18 | Shirik | isn't it about 1k pages? |
| 02:46.52 | Kaydeethree | 2 per page, ~400 shots |
| 02:49.07 | Wobwork | Hay Shirik... |
| 02:49.14 | Shirik | hei |
| 02:49.24 | Wobwork | weren't you working on a flying mod (yaw/pitch/etc)? |
| 02:49.29 | Shirik | yeh |
| 02:49.38 | Wobwork | You got all the math figured out? |
| 02:49.42 | Shirik | ayup |
| 02:49.50 | Shirik | yaw? |
| 02:49.53 | Wobwork | cause http://www.wowace.com/forums/index.php?topic=7423.0;topicseen bloke's offering his help if anyone needs it |
| 02:50.10 | Shirik | I've gotten every last detail figured out, except the GUI |
| 02:50.14 | Shirik | it's always where I fall short |
| 02:50.21 | Wobwork | hehe there's a screenshot on that link |
| 02:50.32 | Shirik | it already can print to the chat window the pitch, etc. |
| 02:50.34 | Wobwork | it may be somewhat too.. technical for most though |
| 02:50.35 | Shirik | altitude |
| 02:50.35 | Shirik | what not |
| 02:51.05 | Xuerian | Might be technical, but it looks cool |
| 02:51.06 | Shirik | but I'm not going to go to that link so; if he needs help from me he can ask for it but from the way you worded it, he's the one offering help |
| 02:51.11 | Xuerian | *would look |
| 02:51.20 | Wobwork | well nah |
| 02:51.25 | Wobwork | he wants the addon =) |
| 02:51.39 | Wobwork | but doesn't have the technical skills, he does have the mathematical ones though |
| 02:52.07 | Shirik | sadly that's the part I got right off the bat |
| 02:52.17 | Shirik | I do go to an aeronautical school :P |
| 02:52.21 | Shirik | that stuff's almost second nature heh |
| 02:53.05 | Shirik | anyway, I'm gonna have to head off to bed |
| 02:53.12 | Wobwork | I could make suggestions about the ui, but it'd be all "You need a spinny line thingie there, and the scaley dial whatchamacallit over here..." |
| 02:53.13 | Xuerian | 'Night. |
| 02:53.18 | Xuerian | XD |
| 02:54.29 | Xuerian | I was thinking a recycling stack of rectangular frames on either side, and the top, for pitch and heading, a small line tex in the middle with appropriate text on either side, calculating it's opacity from the midpoint |
| 02:54.31 | Wobwork | aw. got cut off =P |
| 02:54.47 | Xuerian | lol. |
| 02:55.16 | Lunessa | Kaydeethree: You're a kinder man than I. I wasn't going to help the "Nerf Hillary..." guy 'cause bumping and changing titles to get attention annoyed me. :P |
| 02:55.39 | Kaydeethree | he changed it as I hit refresh, response already written in my head |
| 02:57.02 | Lunessa | Ahh |
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| 03:15.23 | Nom- | bleh i hope i win shoulders from high king today |
| 03:15.29 | Nom- | I need retnoob shoulders :( |
| 03:18.26 | bleeter | I hope they're Orc shoulders |
| 03:18.29 | bleeter | just so you look gimp |
| 03:18.44 | bleeter | oh, hmm, maybe not then |
| 03:19.34 | dylanm | Orc paladins would be hilarious. |
| 03:19.42 | dylanm | Can you imagine the tier 5 on those fellows? |
| 03:24.58 | art3mis | have you ever tried turning off the TV, sitting down with your children and hitting them? |
| 03:25.23 | Kaydeethree | children? I fear the day that ever comes to pass |
| 03:25.44 | art3mis | bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnn |
| 03:26.06 | Lunessa | ... I have no children. I'm sure I would have remembered. |
| 03:27.10 | Corrodias | wait a minute |
| 03:27.38 | Corrodias | files.wowace.com has ElkBuffBar -and- ElkBuffBars |
| 03:27.46 | Corrodias | what's up with that? |
| 03:27.58 | Kaydeethree | I think the plural version is ebb2 |
| 03:28.04 | Wobwork | Clearly =) |
| 03:28.16 | Corrodias | oh, it's so obvious! ;P |
| 03:35.11 | art3mis | wow |
| 03:35.17 | art3mis | im impressed again by mepis |
| 03:35.36 | art3mis | out of the box ->drive install it supports embedded media including wmv |
| 03:35.50 | art3mis | AND 6 lines to make ati drivers work 100% in it |
| 03:36.11 | art3mis | only major downside is that its kde |
| 03:39.17 | art3mis | oh wait this is the wrong winder |
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| 03:40.31 | AnduinLothar | with you assword |
| 03:40.36 | AnduinLothar | lol mt |
| 03:41.13 | art3mis | hah |
| 03:42.29 | Wobwork | meh, now we know what AL thinks of us all =P |
| 03:45.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Iriel (n=daniel@adsl-71-158-244-138.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:45.21 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
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| 04:17.11 | art3mis | wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee |
| 04:17.24 | art3mis | bi bi kde |
| 04:17.24 | Cairenn | wow, there is life in the channel after all |
| 04:17.29 | art3mis | helllllllooooooooooooooooo gnoe |
| 04:17.31 | art3mis | gnome |
| 04:17.37 | art3mis | god i hate kde |
| 04:17.57 | art3mis | i wanna just poke it in the eye with a burning spoon |
| 04:18.01 | art3mis | hiya cairenn |
| 04:18.13 | art3mis | i suppose i technicallycount as life |
| 04:18.15 | Cairenn | how goes? |
| 04:18.28 | art3mis | found a distro of linux that doesnt suck once you instlal it |
| 04:18.43 | art3mis | so immucking around to seehow badly i can break it |
| 04:18.50 | art3mis | wihtout just removing libstdc++ |
| 04:19.08 | art3mis | whatcha up ta? |
| 04:19.19 | Cairenn | bout 5'2" |
| 04:19.44 | art3mis | speaking of gnomes? |
| 04:19.49 | art3mis | ~rimshot |
| 04:19.50 | purl | ba-dum CHH |
| 04:19.54 | Cairenn | :p |
| 04:20.00 | Cairenn | ~lart art3mis |
| 04:20.00 | purl | raises middle finger to art3mis |
| 04:20.05 | Mr_Rabies2 | i wonder why the channel is near dead recently :O |
| 04:20.18 | Iriel | In my case -- work |
| 04:20.22 | Cairenn | summer time, everyone away |
| 04:20.23 | Mr_Rabies2 | nothing important UI related for a while maybe? nothing important wow related in general? |
| 04:20.33 | Cairenn | that too |
| 04:20.36 | art3mis | yeah wow has gotten insanely boring |
| 04:21.02 | art3mis | tbc was fun for awhile but now its back tothe shit ass rep grinds farming and having to interact with others |
| 04:21.02 | Mr_Rabies2 | delaying zul'aman to 2.3 is not a good business decision :[ |
| 04:21.16 | Mr_Rabies2 | the tbc rep grinds are easy |
| 04:21.25 | art3mis | and boring |
| 04:21.35 | art3mis | i did 60-70 solo |
| 04:21.41 | art3mis | im not a big fan of grouping |
| 04:22.02 | art3mis | i liked all the quests but i ran out of the solo ones |
| 04:22.05 | Mr_Rabies2 | perhaps MMOs aren't for you :P |
| 04:22.14 | Mr_Rabies2 | try out oblivion or its ilk maybe :P |
| 04:22.25 | Tain | I re-read Programming in Lua over the last couple of days. |
| 04:22.38 | bleeter | Oh noes! Cairenn and Iriel are active! |
| 04:22.42 | art3mis | hehe thats true |
| 04:22.52 | art3mis | maybe its that wow is too plateau-ey |
| 04:22.52 | Tain | And understood certain things in it on a different level than I ever did before. Which is pretty cool. |
| 04:23.26 | Cairenn | bleeter: you better hide! |
| 04:23.30 | art3mis | like lets say the Black Isle guys came out with an mmo |
| 04:23.39 | art3mis | i'd be totally stoked and enjoy that |
| 04:23.46 | art3mis | but nooooOOOoooo |
| 04:24.26 | Wobwork | Forgotten Realms Online? =) |
| 04:24.37 | Iriel | Tain: I've been having similar experiences reading The Java Virtual Machine Specification |
| 04:24.48 | art3mis | yeah |
| 04:25.00 | art3mis | that whole rant i had the other night is my dream mmo ;P |
| 04:25.25 | Tain | It's funny. There are just some things that click on a different level. |
| 04:26.02 | Iriel | I usually find re-reading the reference material after a solid chunk of experience is rewarding in a new way |
| 04:27.04 | bleeter | final proof Iriel's lost his mind! "reading The Java Virtual Machine Specification" :P |
| 04:27.13 | Tain | Well, the funny part is my brain decided to compare it to D&D. It's just like the old DM guide said, you gain levels not in the middle of things, but after the fact when you have time to reflect back on it. |
| 04:28.00 | Tain | And then of course I thought, "How very sad." |
| 04:36.00 | batrick | that's awesome lol |
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| 04:45.22 | Mr_Rabies2 | boooored |
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| 06:43.45 | art3mis | uh oh he's at worl |
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| 08:56.42 | zenzelezz | http://www.richdunajewski.com/videos/YHpovwbPGEoo |
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| 09:14.29 | Nom- | omg |
| 09:14.41 | Mr_Rabies2 | milkdrop eat your heart out |
| 09:14.49 | Nom- | Just watching the "I AM MURLOC" video :P |
| 09:16.45 | Mr_Rabies2 | ah |
| 09:17.02 | Mr_Rabies2 | i love L70ETC |
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| 11:22.59 | Dragon|work | hmm zenzelezz if your into that kind of experiments check this one out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3asSdngzLs |
| 11:25.02 | zenzelezz | cheers, I'll check it out |
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| 11:54.01 | zenzelezz | <Jim> my internet died for days. it caused me physical harm |
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| 13:43.31 | Josh_Borke | AnduinLothar: ping |
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| 15:13.16 | cog|work | Well that's neat... Some close family friends made it onto Rolling Stone's 40 essential albums of 1967 >< |
| 15:13.24 | cog|work | http://www.rollingstone.com/photos/gallery/15327933/the_40_essential_albums_of_1967/photo/28/large/ |
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| 15:13.56 | clad|sleep | very cool! |
| 15:13.58 | zenzelezz | think it's a bit late for fame now |
| 15:14.34 | cog|work | yeah well :P |
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| 15:17.21 | cog|work | They dedicated a record of childrens songs to me when I was 2 ;) |
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| 15:21.20 | Thrae | hm |
| 15:39.05 | cog|work | Yes, my family is a bunch of tree hugging hippies (quite literally) |
| 15:42.47 | Lopeppeppy | At least there are hugs going around, Cogwheel. |
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| 16:10.36 | Kirov | Anyone know if a player logs in, and is already in a party (ie: s/he got disconnected) if PARTY_MEMBERS_CHANGED fires? |
| 16:11.20 | TS|Skrom | on the part of the player or the other people in the group |
| 16:11.40 | Kirov | the player themselves |
| 16:11.57 | Kirov | I'm trying to figure out if checking on PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD is redundant or not |
| 16:12.00 | TS|Skrom | I think it does, because doesn't that trigger the "Group loot method has changed to" messages? |
| 16:12.13 | TS|Skrom | which those show up when you come back on from getting kicekd |
| 16:12.16 | TS|Skrom | er kicked |
| 16:13.25 | clad|book | easy enough to test :P |
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| 16:20.51 | cog|work | zomghax00r j00 get teh banned |
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| 16:53.42 | Nom- | Does anyone recally the base PvE chance to miss for a 2-hander ? |
| 16:54.18 | zenzelezz | I just discovered a flaw in my plan to solo Gandling :-| |
| 16:54.23 | TS|Skrom | base miss is 5% if your attack skill vs. defense skill is = |
| 16:55.35 | AnduinLothar | 8% on bosses me thinks |
| 16:55.42 | Nom- | So it is 8% nice |
| 16:56.03 | AnduinLothar | 5% on equal lvl mobs |
| 16:56.42 | AnduinLothar | pvp depends on their defense, but due to resiliance it's usually less |
| 16:56.46 | Nom- | I'll have 8.14% +hit when i respec to retribution |
| 16:56.48 | Nom- | Not bad :) |
| 16:57.28 | AnduinLothar | yeah, i'm a bit low in ret. I'm trying to get the 2% hit trinket from KZ just for swapping in on bosses |
| 16:58.17 | Nom- | I've just been gearing up and enchanting everything tonight in preperation for raid tomorrow |
| 16:58.23 | Nom- | I go Ret for Gruul |
| 16:58.36 | Nom- | Got just over 1300ap and 18% crit in holy spec |
| 16:58.50 | AnduinLothar | melee crit? |
| 16:59.11 | AnduinLothar | i had to respec last night to tank a heroic or i'd show you my profile |
| 17:00.38 | Nom- | yeah melee crit |
| 17:00.43 | Nom- | 17% melee crit it is |
| 17:00.50 | Nom- | get 5% from ret talents |
| 17:01.03 | Nom- | 22% crit isn't as high as i'd like, but it's not stupidly low either |
| 17:01.17 | AnduinLothar | think i was at 22% melee crit and 16 something ap with might, but i'm not sure |
| 17:01.49 | Nom- | http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormscale&n=Innominata |
| 17:01.49 | AnduinLothar | well it said 22% on the char screen i guess you get more from tallents, not sure what shows |
| 17:03.34 | AnduinLothar | damnit, my flat mate is using bittorrent again... adict... i get zero bandwidth cause he doesn't have the decency to limit it even tho i've shown him how |
| 17:03.48 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Karen@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 17:03.48 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 17:03.54 | zenzelezz | wait for him to leave and accidentally limit him yourself |
| 17:04.05 | Thrae | AnduinLothar: Replace your router with one that supports QoS |
| 17:04.10 | Thrae | Like a Linksys |
| 17:04.17 | AnduinLothar | QoS? |
| 17:04.33 | [dRaCo] | quality of service |
| 17:04.37 | AnduinLothar | i do have the router right here, I haven't heard of a way to limit traffic to one ip |
| 17:05.20 | kergoth | AnduinLothar, QoS lets you do things like prioritize traffic on game ports. good stuff |
| 17:05.24 | AnduinLothar | had bad experience last time i flashed a router too |
| 17:06.32 | Thrae | AnduinLothar: Bandwidth shaping ("Quality of Service"). IE, BitTorrent would have a lower "Quality of Service" then everything else. This won't effect download speeds even for WoW and web browsing, as they use up a pitiful amount of bandwidth. Most of the problem with BitTorrent clogging up the network is that the modem's upload queue overflows, causing a ton of lost packets. It's actually in his best interest to implement QoS for |
| 17:07.07 | AnduinLothar | right, it's jsut connection # afaik |
| 17:07.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge PProvost (i=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 17:07.43 | Thrae | AnduinLothar: Tell him that his BitTorrent needs to be properly limited to get the best speeds, due to your sucky modem. If he doesn't believe you, either have him lookup QoS or tell him to come talk to me. I'm an IT professional, I know what I'm talking about. |
| 17:09.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Xuerian (n=core@wireless-216-222-130-182.citizip.com) |
| 17:09.33 | AnduinLothar | Nom-: you should get the pvp belt and braces |
| 17:09.40 | AnduinLothar | epic non-set |
| 17:09.43 | Nom- | yah i plan to when i get enough points |
| 17:09.50 | TS|Skrom | Thrae, My webserver in the office is having some timeout issues with incoming ftp connections. End user is using Internet Explorer for his ftp client (not the best I know) but had maintained stable connections before. What could cause this? he gets a login box, but never actually loads the directory contents. |
| 17:09.51 | AnduinLothar | i got all 3 and love um |
| 17:10.01 | Nom- | I plan to get a full epic set actually |
| 17:10.03 | Nom- | pvp epic set |
| 17:10.15 | AnduinLothar | meh, dont get the pvp blues |
| 17:10.18 | Nom- | tank gear, healing gear i can all get from instances |
| 17:10.21 | AnduinLothar | get the arena ret purples |
| 17:10.25 | Nom- | the retribution gear is really hard to come by |
| 17:10.28 | AnduinLothar | and the pvp purples |
| 17:10.41 | AnduinLothar | it's the best ret gear in the game, lol |
| 17:10.50 | Nom- | Yup, that's the plan..i'm already half way to first piece of arena ret gear |
| 17:11.11 | AnduinLothar | oh btw, don't wast your gems on atp. get strength and put 5 points in the holy tallent |
| 17:11.31 | AnduinLothar | 1 str = 2 atp afaik |
| 17:11.42 | Nom- | yup, i plan to get that talent when i respec |
| 17:11.56 | Nom- | and i'll get the gems anyway, but i've been filling up with greens instead of blues |
| 17:12.02 | AnduinLothar | ya |
| 17:12.22 | Nom- | I wish I could find a better cloak/belt/shoulders |
| 17:12.30 | Nom- | I bought the cloak/shoulders off the AH just before i logged |
| 17:12.37 | AnduinLothar | i need that libram |
| 17:12.43 | Nom- | Purely because everything i had was rubbish for DPS gear |
| 17:12.47 | AnduinLothar | cloak from moros is good |
| 17:13.00 | AnduinLothar | +hit/str/stam |
| 17:13.00 | Nom- | Yup, I was hoping it would drop tonight, but no such luck |
| 17:13.09 | Nom- | I need a trinket too |
| 17:13.21 | Nom- | With any luck, i'll get T4 shoulders from high king |
| 17:13.26 | AnduinLothar | also you can replace that neck with the one with similar stats from badges |
| 17:13.31 | Nom- | and i'll cash those in while i respec for gruul |
| 17:14.02 | AnduinLothar | helm I'm using t4 i just got, before that it was the mail hunter on from aran |
| 17:14.16 | AnduinLothar | chest mail hunter from netherspite |
| 17:14.25 | Nom- | lol i was using the mail one from aran |
| 17:14.28 | AnduinLothar | shoulders i use the leather rogue from chess |
| 17:14.33 | Nom- | until i discovered the one i'm wearing now is actually better |
| 17:14.39 | AnduinLothar | meh, i dont think so |
| 17:14.51 | AnduinLothar | no crit |
| 17:14.53 | Nom- | you try them one one time...you actually get slightly better AP + Crit from the blue quest reward |
| 17:15.07 | AnduinLothar | no crit at all on the blue |
| 17:15.31 | AnduinLothar | i have it in the bank, ya |
| 17:15.59 | Nom- | Yah, I weighted them up though....with that libram i don't have much trouble building up crits |
| 17:16.06 | Nom- | So it's more important to maximize AP for me |
| 17:16.29 | AnduinLothar | well i'll show you my ret gear tonight. atm i'm in tank gear minus the 2h |
| 17:16.30 | AnduinLothar | http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kil'jaeden&n=Wraithhammer |
| 17:16.56 | AnduinLothar | not bad tank gear tho. i had 13337 hp in heroic SP last night, lol |
| 17:17.37 | AnduinLothar | forgot to get the 5% parry tallent tho >.< |
| 17:18.12 | AnduinLothar | that's the 2h i use in ret tho. great for pvp |
| 17:18.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Josh_Borke (n=jk275@antimatter.stl.gtri.gatech.edu) |
| 17:18.26 | AnduinLothar | i'm working on primals for the swordsmith tier 2 |
| 17:18.39 | Josh_Borke | AnduinLothar: you need to update your Telepathy page on wowwiki |
| 17:18.44 | AnduinLothar | oh? |
| 17:18.55 | Nom- | i've got mostly kara purples for tank gear |
| 17:18.57 | Josh_Borke | you say you still use a custom tell channel on it |
| 17:19.04 | AnduinLothar | mk |
| 17:19.15 | Josh_Borke | i was gonna use it then i saw all the other stuff :-( |
| 17:19.34 | AnduinLothar | otherstuff? |
| 17:19.38 | Josh_Borke | s/other stuff/requirements/ |
| 17:19.49 | AnduinLothar | it's all embeddable |
| 17:19.50 | Nom- | ah ur not crush immune either |
| 17:20.03 | AnduinLothar | no shield on |
| 17:20.05 | Nom- | so many protection paladins which don't go for crush immune |
| 17:20.24 | AnduinLothar | i have 497 def with my shield on |
| 17:20.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge amro (n=amro@82.101.184.139) |
| 17:20.28 | Nom- | yah but unless your shield has like +50 block rating, and you have a block rating libram |
| 17:20.35 | *** join/#wowi-lounge chuckg (i=chuckg@66-239-58-32.starstream.net) |
| 17:20.40 | Nom- | crush immune, not crit immune |
| 17:20.44 | Nom- | differnet things |
| 17:20.49 | deltron | shield enchant |
| 17:21.02 | Nom- | even then |
| 17:21.16 | deltron | i think i'm going to make my pally a tankadin |
| 17:21.21 | AnduinLothar | crush immune comes from holy shield plus the block proc tallent |
| 17:21.34 | Nom- | does for you yeah |
| 17:21.43 | Nom- | i've got myself to crush immune with just holy shield |
| 17:21.45 | AnduinLothar | you would need a bunch more to get it just from holy shield |
| 17:21.47 | Josh_Borke | you're trying for protadin now AL? |
| 17:22.00 | AnduinLothar | nah josh, i needed primals and we're low on tanks |
| 17:22.11 | Nom- | there's a libram from the heroics vendor which is nice for htat |
| 17:22.12 | Josh_Borke | ah, ok. my paladin is still at 64 |
| 17:22.27 | Nom- | adds like 5 or 6% to block chance while holy shield is active |
| 17:22.28 | AnduinLothar | i have decent tank and healign gear so i can still respec if i'm needed |
| 17:22.29 | zenzelezz | Gnomeregan Auto-Blocker? |
| 17:22.34 | zenzelezz | oh, nope |
| 17:22.35 | Nom- | no, libram |
| 17:22.42 | zenzelezz | yeah, I missed that word |
| 17:22.45 | AnduinLothar | nom, that 15 badges? |
| 17:22.51 | Nom- | i believe so AnduinLothar |
| 17:23.11 | Nom- | Actually, truth be told, i didn't quite make it to crit immune...i'm hovering about 98% right now with holy shield up |
| 17:23.11 | AnduinLothar | i might get it, tho i think i'll use my badges for primals first |
| 17:23.25 | Nom- | crush immune i mena |
| 17:23.48 | AnduinLothar | i have some blues in my bank with block rating but i'm not sure they're worth replacing epics |
| 17:23.52 | AnduinLothar | just for crit immune |
| 17:23.59 | Nom- | got like 510 defense, and yeah...98-99% avoidance...sooo close |
| 17:24.45 | Nom- | Well, for high end tanking, crush immune and high block values is what makes a pally tank worthwhile |
| 17:25.15 | Nom- | On bosses like gruul, where the difference between survival and death at the end of the fight can be whether you get crushed or not... |
| 17:25.38 | AnduinLothar | crush immue is easy |
| 17:25.48 | AnduinLothar | i didn't even bother with the defense tallent |
| 17:26.03 | AnduinLothar | and i tossed my defense trinket for my stam one |
| 17:26.16 | Nom- | i'm talking crush immune again, not crit immune |
| 17:26.22 | AnduinLothar | gah |
| 17:26.27 | Nom- | crit immune is a given |
| 17:26.41 | Nom- | any tank who doesn't get 490 defense isn't worth the time |
| 17:27.05 | Nom- | druids are about stacking armor and stamina |
| 17:27.20 | Nom- | warriors are about standing hitpoints and their class abilities |
| 17:27.22 | AnduinLothar | mmm how much avoidance in holy shield? |
| 17:27.31 | Nom- | paladins are about stacking avoidance |
| 17:27.46 | Nom- | 30% normal, 35 to 36% with that libram i was talking about |
| 17:30.28 | AnduinLothar | mk, well i have 46% avoidance with my shield on |
| 17:30.45 | AnduinLothar | so 76% with holy shield |
| 17:30.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Fin (n=Fin@migi.instinct.org) |
| 17:31.33 | AnduinLothar | so i'd need 24% more to be crit immune? |
| 17:32.07 | zenzelezz | *crush* |
| 17:32.18 | zenzelezz | I believe... crush is avoidance, crit is defense |
| 17:32.18 | AnduinLothar | damn, keep trying the wrong thing |
| 17:32.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kyahx (i=Kyahx@gateway/tor/x-a3b00adb0ee675b8) |
| 17:32.25 | AnduinLothar | typing* |
| 17:32.40 | AnduinLothar | ok, well i can get 5 more parry from tallents |
| 17:32.46 | zenzelezz | (unless I'm ignorant about differences among other classes, which is well possible) |
| 17:33.02 | AnduinLothar | no, you're right, my brain is fried |
| 17:33.08 | Nom- | don't forget to count your base miss chance 5% and whatever you get from defense usually anoterh 5% |
| 17:33.56 | AnduinLothar | decreases chance to be hit by 5.88% |
| 17:34.34 | Nom- | yup there you go, so there's 10.88% |
| 17:34.39 | Nom- | which you may not have counted |
| 17:34.52 | AnduinLothar | ok, so 87.42% with holy shield and kings |
| 17:35.06 | Nom- | up so ur about 15% away |
| 17:35.18 | Nom- | that libram (if you dont have it) makes 5% |
| 17:35.27 | Nom- | and block rating is easiest to stack |
| 17:35.30 | AnduinLothar | sounds worth getting |
| 17:35.45 | Nom- | you'll notice it makes a big difference the closer you get to 102.6% |
| 17:37.33 | Nom- | balance it up with ur need for stamina tho |
| 17:38.51 | AnduinLothar | was gonna swap in http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27792 but i think http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29173 is still better |
| 17:39.09 | Thrae | !i 27792 |
| 17:39.10 | ThraeBot | Thrae: Name: Steam-Hinge Chain of Valor; Rarity: Blue; BoP; Neck; +26 Stamina; Requires L68; +19 BlockRating; Equip: Increases the block value of your shield by 29.; Drops off: Mekgineer Steamrigger (Steamvault); Drop Rate: Low. [[ http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27792 ]] |
| 17:39.15 | Thrae | !i 29173 |
| 17:39.16 | ThraeBot | Thrae: Name: Strength of the Untamed; Rarity: Blue; BoP; Unique; Neck; +27 Stamina; Requires L70; +19 DefenseSkillRating; +18 DodgeRating; Get: Faction Reward. [[ http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29173 ]] |
| 17:41.24 | AnduinLothar | think i just need more tanking purples |
| 17:41.38 | Thrae | AnduinLothar: I guess it really depends on your spec and overall Defense |
| 17:41.46 | AnduinLothar | still short 8 purples |
| 17:44.01 | Nom- | ok must go to bed |
| 17:44.03 | AnduinLothar | hmm 1540 ap and 20% crit in ret gear proc spec |
| 17:44.05 | Nom- | nearly 2am and got work |
| 17:44.10 | Nom- | nite |
| 17:44.15 | AnduinLothar | nn |
| 17:47.24 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Lopeppeppy (n=Lopeppep@141.222.114.42) |
| 18:01.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge stavmar (n=chatzill@fw2.isgenesis.com) |
| 18:04.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (n=Cide@hus110a.bobbnet.com) |
| 18:04.34 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 18:10.49 | Cide | is it wrong to ask for non-ace2 replacements for some of my mods? |
| 18:11.15 | Cide | and no, I'm not trying to stir up discussion, I honestly don't want 3mb of libraries for my 2 ace2 mods |
| 18:11.39 | Thrae | Cide: Only if the Ace2 ones aren't really that much better overall. |
| 18:12.12 | Kaydeethree | what are you trying to replace? |
| 18:12.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Beladona (n=Beladona@24.129.136.26) |
| 18:12.25 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Beladona] by ChanServ |
| 18:12.32 | Thrae | When you're talking big-ass crap like CTRA and CTBossMods, how much space the Ace2 libraries take up is trivial, unless the libraries are ONLY used by like 1 addon |
| 18:12.55 | Thrae | Or they only use like 1 functionality out of a huge-ass library |
| 18:13.08 | Thrae | Cide: But I consider those the author's fault, not Ace2 explicitly |
| 18:13.31 | Cide | Thrae: actually, my two Ace2 mods use up more memory than both of those together, on top of the 2mb libraries |
| 18:14.01 | nevcairiel | which are those then ? :) |
| 18:14.22 | Cide | Antagonist and ag_UnitFrames |
| 18:14.50 | Cide | but maybe those are 'big-ass crap' too |
| 18:14.51 | nevcairiel | agUF itself uses like 500kb here |
| 18:14.51 | Kaydeethree | isn't antagonist a spellalert-type mod? |
| 18:14.57 | Cide | Kaydeethree: yes |
| 18:15.04 | Kaydeethree | I still use spellalertSCT for that |
| 18:15.16 | nevcairiel | SCT is ace too :P |
| 18:15.26 | Thrae | Cide: Well, like I said, it's not the fault of Ace2...it's how to use it. And most people don't use it correctly. And there's also the point of using an addon with a ton of features vs using an addon with the exact features you want, or a modularized one like PitBull. |
| 18:15.55 | Thrae | Kaydeethree: Try WitchHunt, I believe it still works fine, and it can report to SCT / MSBT / FCT if you like that |
| 18:16.23 | Kaydeethree | meh. inertia wins... once it stops working I'll switch to something else |
| 18:16.36 | Cide | Thrae: so they're both using it incorrectly? |
| 18:16.41 | Thrae | Kaydeethree: Well, WitchHunt has better pattern matching I've found |
| 18:17.10 | Thrae | Cide: ag_UnitFrames was abandoned by its author when PitBull came about, and Antagonist is very beta and hasn't been updated in a looong time (might also be abandonded) |
| 18:17.28 | Cide | Thrae: well, that's not what I asked :) |
| 18:17.41 | Thrae | Cide: ag actually said he prefers PitBull and considers it better then his own addon. |
| 18:18.02 | KriLL3 | takes a big man to admit that |
| 18:18.39 | nevcairiel | agUF isnt abondend |
| 18:18.44 | nevcairiel | i hope |
| 18:18.52 | nevcairiel | PitBull uses too much performance for me |
| 18:19.05 | Cide | Thrae: so, are they both using ace2 incorrectly? |
| 18:19.12 | Thrae | Cide: In the case of both, yes, they both have huge-ass mods that have big ersource problems -- not the fault of Ace2 here. Antagonist also uses quite a few libs which are not used by other addons. |
| 18:19.36 | Thrae | Cide: Yeah, neither have gone through the "optimization" stages of development yet, and both were made by coders relatively new to WoW addon creation. |
| 18:20.26 | Cide | it's unfortunate how the most popular ace2 addons apparently use ace2 incorrectly. and now the suggested alternative has been said to use too much performance |
| 18:20.47 | Cide | so, back to my original question: are there any non-ace2 alternatives out there for agUF and Antagonist? |
| 18:20.56 | nevcairiel | agUF itself has a 500kb memory footprint, not sure about using the libs. |
| 18:21.21 | Antiarc|Work | Bongos and TrinityBar are the two popular non-Ace bar mods right now |
| 18:21.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge kaiden (n=kaiden@c-71-197-188-78.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 18:21.26 | Thrae | Cide: If you're talking about the idea that's being pushed by some Ace2 fanboys that Ace2 improves performance explicitly, which is not true and is not agreed upon by even the developers. |
| 18:21.27 | Kyahx | Cide: there is a pretty small branch of oUF that works -- but to customize it you have to code the layout yourself |
| 18:21.33 | Cide | I'm not using an ace2 bar mod, Antiarc|Work |
| 18:21.36 | Punkie` | I use Sage by Tuller |
| 18:21.37 | Kyahx | That's what im using |
| 18:21.40 | KriLL3 | does addon ram usage really matter when you got 1.5GB or more of ram? |
| 18:21.41 | Antiarc|Work | Errr. Doh. |
| 18:21.44 | Antiarc|Work | I needs me more coffee ;) |
| 18:21.48 | Punkie` | like 200KiB with all modules loaded |
| 18:21.49 | Punkie` | pretty nice |
| 18:21.53 | nevcairiel | i was thinking abotu un-aceing BT4 |
| 18:21.56 | Antiarc|Work | X-Perl is the non-Ace unit frame setup that I see most often, then. |
| 18:21.59 | nevcairiel | i dont use much features. |
| 18:22.29 | Cide | Thrae: I'm not talking about memory usage at all, other than the fact that the libraries alone for my 2 ace2 mods use over 2 MiB of memory, which I'm not that fond of |
| 18:23.04 | Cide | so I'd prefer to find some replacement for those mods, since I'm only using 2 ace2 mods |
| 18:23.08 | Antiarc|Work | Any clue which libs are the culprit(s)? |
| 18:23.09 | Thrae | Cide: I was refering to the idea that they increase performance overall somehow, which both you and I know is not true...but it's not like that idea is toted by the developers |
| 18:23.19 | Cide | Antiarc|Work: no idea |
| 18:23.24 | kaiden | I use ace2 based mods out of convenience, one location to get my mods from, 1 app to run and 2 button clicks per day to keep updated |
| 18:23.25 | kaiden | ;) |
| 18:23.39 | foxlit | ~wuu |
| 18:23.40 | purl | rumour has it, wuu is a WoW UI Updater - Updates your WoW addons automagically from WoWAce, WoWI, Cosmos, and CurseGaming sites. Homepage is http://wuu.vagabonds.info/ |
| 18:23.42 | KriLL3 | more than 2 since the updater can't be updated automatically... |
| 18:23.55 | KriLL3 | purl: it sucks |
| 18:23.55 | purl | So we want to be stupid, right, sucks ? Fine, pushups, right now. OK, side straddle hops, right now. OK, run in place, right now. I didn't say stop! |
| 18:23.56 | kaiden | foxlit, horribly annoying to configure imo |
| 18:24.22 | Cide | Thrae: no, I wasn't really talking about that. I was simply commenting on the fact that two popular ace2 mods apparently use ace2 incorrectly, which is sad for the users |
| 18:24.29 | KriLL3 | it rapes most addons if they got third party forks etc |
| 18:24.53 | KriLL3 | replaced half of my addons with the old abandoned versions that didn't even load with the current patch, gg. |
| 18:25.04 | Thrae | Cide: Well, the basis of Ace2 isn't performance enhancement, it's ease of development. So in that sense, they're using it correctly :) |
| 18:25.36 | Cide | Thrae: yet they use more memory than 'big-ass crap' like CTRA and CTBossMods |
| 18:25.43 | Cide | which is why I want to replace them |
| 18:25.52 | KriLL3 | I don't really care is an addon is ace or not, but most good addons coming out atm are ace |
| 18:26.25 | Cide | so, once again, are there any nice alternatives to those addons? |
| 18:26.32 | Thrae | Cide: I thought you were referring to your own addons vs Ace2 alternatives. |
| 18:26.33 | AnduinLothar | which? |
| 18:26.42 | Cide | agUF and Antagonist |
| 18:26.52 | Tuller | aguf does not have a real alternative, and I think someone mentioned antagonist |
| 18:27.03 | Tuller | well an alternative to it, that is |
| 18:27.36 | Thrae | Antagonist is not a SpellAlert-type mod |
| 18:27.42 | Punkie` | Your Sage unitframes are pretty good Tuller |
| 18:27.43 | Thrae | It's like NCB_EnemyCastBars |
| 18:28.00 | Kaydeethree | <3 NECB |
| 18:28.00 | KriLL3 | Quartz <3 |
| 18:28.19 | Thrae | Kaydeethree: Is that the same as Natur_EnemyCastBar? |
| 18:28.20 | AnduinLothar | I use Dorje's Healign bars and Visual Heal, but i wouldn't rly recommend them |
| 18:28.22 | Tuller | Punkie`: but sage does not do layouts :) |
| 18:28.24 | Kaydeethree | yes |
| 18:28.24 | AnduinLothar | both ace anywya |
| 18:28.47 | Thrae | Kaydeethree: Yeah that's a big-ass memory hog too, but Antagonist is beta, while that isn't |
| 18:29.00 | Kyahx | What does NECB have over the blizz target casting bar?? (I'll admit I never used it) |
| 18:29.23 | Kaydeethree | I just use NECB for its timers, the castbars are taken care of in my unitframes |
| 18:29.35 | Kyahx | timers? |
| 18:29.37 | Thrae | Kyahx: Natur_EnemyCastBars show durations for various enemy attacks, debuffs, etc. |
| 18:29.45 | Kaydeethree | dot timers, respawn, debuffs, cooldowns, etc... |
| 18:29.45 | Kyahx | ah |
| 18:29.57 | Thrae | Kyahx: It also parses the combat log and shows enemy cast bars for units you don't have targeted |
| 18:30.14 | AnduinLothar | and i use Arch for my unit frames, tho it doesn't have the same options as replacement UF's obviously |
| 18:30.19 | AnduinLothar | and has it's own libs |
| 18:31.16 | Thrae | Antiarc|Work: Antagonist uses 16 different libraries. |
| 18:31.17 | Punkie` | Tuller: Did you fix the little bug in Sage where the buffs/debuffs decided to form a new line too early? |
| 18:31.22 | Antiarc|Work | Dear god. |
| 18:31.45 | Tuller | Punkie`: are you using the SVN version or one off of a website? |
| 18:31.49 | Kyahx | I'm still an oUF fan :P but again, not very many options to it |
| 18:31.58 | Punkie` | Tuller: SVN |
| 18:32.10 | Tuller | Punkie`: well, then I was not aware of it |
| 18:32.22 | Thrae | Antiarc|Work: It also uses both ParserLib-1.1 AND Deformat-2.0, even though ParserLib-1.1 should handle all the deformating needs. Sigh... |
| 18:32.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge abug (n=ABUGABUG@c-71-59-82-173.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 18:33.03 | Antiarc|Work | I'm of the mind that Waterfall should be used if it's available, but not included in most mods. |
| 18:33.08 | Thrae | Cide: Yeah, Antagonist uses waaaaaay more libraries then it probably needs. Also, ParserLib-1.1 is a huge-ass memory hog, but there's really no way to get around a lib like ParserLib-1.1 for parsing the combat log, unless you want absolutely no localization support. |
| 18:33.17 | Punkie` | Tuller: They form a new line and rescale even though there is about 1/4 of the health bar size remaining |
| 18:33.39 | Thrae | Antiarc|Work: I agree, also for SharedMedia + PaintChips support, both are hogs too. Make 'em modules. |
| 18:33.41 | Tuller | Punkie`: when was the last time you updated? and does this happen on all frames? |
| 18:33.41 | abug | is it worth using compost? |
| 18:33.49 | Tuller | Punkie`: I made some code changes last night during a raid |
| 18:34.05 | Antiarc|Work | abug: It or something that performs a similar function, yes, very much so. |
| 18:34.51 | Antiarc|Work | Babble-Spell, ParserLib, and SharedMedia are all memory hogs, but they pay for themselves really quickly once you start using them in a few mods. |
| 18:35.00 | Antiarc|Work | If you're only using 1-2 ace mods though, yeah, they can be piggish. |
| 18:35.11 | Punkie` | Tuller: I updated last night, but am not raiding today so I can't really test it out |
| 18:35.14 | Thrae | Cide: So yeah, Antagonist is a very bad example of an optimized Ace2 addon, heh. Natur_EnemyCastBar + ChronosTimer is probably a better bet. |
| 18:35.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Chompers (n=Chomp@cpc2-cove7-0-0-cust20.brhm.cable.ntl.com) |
| 18:35.30 | Punkie` | and I've never had that amount of debuffs so I can't really tell if it's only my target |
| 18:35.33 | Thrae | Antiarc|Work: ParserLib-1.1 isn't Ace, there's no real reason for it to be |
| 18:36.15 | Antiarc|Work | I tend to use Parser-3.0 myself. Just like its API a lot more. |
| 18:39.45 | Thrae | Cide: honestly, oRA and BigWigs these days isn't that much better then CTRA and CT_BossMods, they're all big-ass memory hogs in my opinion, especially since haste & Tekkub stopped supporting them |
| 18:40.28 | Kyahx | Is there even still a real need for a raid assist mod? Blizz has implemented most of the crucial stuff |
| 18:40.39 | Antiarc|Work | Blizzard's implemention is kinda sucky |
| 18:40.57 | Josh_Borke | cide: it'll be hard to find a replacement for agUF since it depends on how you have it configured. |
| 18:41.05 | Thrae | Kyahx: Some of the stuff in CTRA/oRA is still extremely useful, but I use different addons for that, and use Blizzard's interface for the rest of it |
| 18:41.10 | Cide | Thrae: used NECB for a while, didn't like it |
| 18:41.15 | Tuller | solution: someone write an aguf :) |
| 18:41.29 | AnduinLothar | I use PRaid now for raids, Arch for parties/player/target |
| 18:41.29 | Josh_Borke | thrae: i was under the impression that ag decided to go back to working on agUF after he saw how large pitbull had become |
| 18:41.34 | Cide | Josh_Borke: I have basically left is at default |
| 18:41.38 | Cide | s/is/it/ |
| 18:41.54 | Josh_Borke | Cide: pretty sure sage looks similar |
| 18:42.25 | Josh_Borke | i personally have not looked into the performance of different unit frame mods |
| 18:42.42 | Josh_Borke | so i won't be able to say what one is on par with what other one |
| 18:42.58 | Cide | Thrae: you were the one who brought it up though; I personally don't care much about how the raid assist mods compare :) |
| 18:43.03 | Josh_Borke | and i don't believe there is anything similar to Antagonist that isn't ace (besides nECB) |
| 18:43.21 | Thrae | Cide: That's because I thought you -were- comparing them, but I see I mis-interpreted |
| 18:43.37 | Cide | ah, ok |
| 18:43.56 | Thrae | Josh_Borke: You're probably right, but agUF has always been a mess itself, so we shouldn't hope too much... |
| 18:44.28 | Josh_Borke | Thrae: indeed |
| 18:45.03 | Thrae | Cide: We've talked about it in the past, you said your users don't like the idea of further modularization to CT mods, and I agree you should listen to your userbase. It all depends on what userbase you are appealing to. |
| 18:45.50 | Thrae | There's absolutely nothing wrong with appealing to any userbase. |
| 18:45.51 | Cide | Thrae: I'm still not trying to compare mods to my own :) |
| 18:46.15 | Thrae | Cide: Yeah, I just meant in general. And the modularization in both of the "Ace alternatives" still suck anyway. |
| 18:46.44 | AnduinLothar | Baggins show $ yet? |
| 18:46.51 | AnduinLothar | wrong place to ask |
| 18:47.09 | Tuller | Punkie`: well, all I can say is that it should be working. It uses the same code as combuctor, and that's working fine enough |
| 18:47.12 | abug | bilbo or frodo? |
| 18:47.26 | Thrae | Tuller: Didn't you break Combuctor a few days ago :D |
| 18:48.31 | Tuller | Thrae: combuctor will remain broken until there is a release :P |
| 18:49.12 | Thrae | Tuller: I meant it was giving all kinds of errors and failing to load |
| 18:50.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Ins-_ (n=sam@83.101.15.43) |
| 18:50.46 | Tuller | Thrae: that shouldn't be happening. you can't run it and bagnon at the same time, though |
| 18:51.21 | Tuller | mostly because I'm lazy and have not renamed the bagnon code i copy and pasted |
| 18:59.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine (n=Guilloti@63.203.120.57) |
| 19:02.53 | dylanm | Ohh that would explain it. |
| 19:07.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge NimbleRabit (n=Nimble_R@cpe-76-170-244-178.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 19:11.02 | AnduinLothar | so... should i put Khaos and Ace2Khaos on the ace svn? |
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| 19:12.16 | AnduinLothar | only half serious. I've had a request for Ace2Khaos, but Khaos is avil in Cosmos obviously. i think they just didn't want to update manually |
| 19:13.26 | Cide | if you want to. the svn doesn't require the mod to be ace2 |
| 19:14.21 | AnduinLothar | wouldn't do it for convienience for myself. I'd use externals to the cosmos repo but it's not anon accessable |
| 19:19.52 | deltron | hehe |
| 19:20.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge KarlThePagan (n=andross@lanip-170-65.go180.net) |
| 19:21.44 | Antiarc|Work | Hrm. Actually, you could kinda sorta put a mod in the ace SVN repo by just making it an external to your own SVN, if it were publically available. |
| 19:22.04 | Antiarc|Work | So you only have to maintain it in one place, but get the automated publishing features. |
| 19:22.06 | Valaron|Work | Haha cog|work: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=387999695&sid=1 |
| 19:23.10 | krka | hmm... can i use r,g,b,a for button:SetNormalTexture? |
| 19:23.18 | krka | instead of texturepaths / texture objects |
| 19:23.28 | krka | i guess i could use a texture object with that instead |
| 19:23.38 | krka | just wondering if the shortcut would work |
| 19:32.30 | deltron | anyone try out wuu? |
| 19:34.21 | Josh_Borke | krka: don't believe so |
| 19:39.42 | krka | i just want to make a button that only changes text color |
| 19:39.51 | krka | thought i could do it by changing texture color |
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| 19:46.12 | Josh_Borke | you gotta create a texture |
| 19:46.17 | Josh_Borke | if you made the button yourself |
| 19:48.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Xuerian (n=core@wireless-216-222-130-182.citizip.com) |
| 19:48.50 | Xuerian | he necromancer's toolkit. |
| 19:51.22 | buu | Xuerian: What is the appropiate channel for that? |
| 19:55.53 | TS|Skrom | #necrognomicon |
| 19:56.15 | abug | gah, I clicked |
| 19:56.23 | deltron | lol |
| 19:56.33 | buu | Hot. |
| 19:56.41 | TS|Skrom | deltron you do any tabletop gaming? |
| 19:57.22 | deltron | TS|Skrom: never have :/ well, at least not in a VERY long time. I did robotech way back when |
| 19:57.41 | TS|Skrom | was wondering if you were interesting in some D&D we got room at our table |
| 19:57.49 | deltron | heh when? |
| 19:58.00 | TS|Skrom | we play friday's after 8:30 pm til whenever |
| 19:58.10 | TS|Skrom | all my gaming buddies but me have kids |
| 19:58.16 | deltron | possibly |
| 19:58.18 | TS|Skrom | so we play later which gives them a chance to get the kids in bed |
| 19:58.36 | deltron | heh I'm single and kidless, so I can do whatever |
| 19:58.48 | TS|Skrom | same lol |
| 19:59.16 | TS|Skrom | we play at my bro-in-laws house in south city (near st. louis hills/carondolet area) |
| 19:59.54 | deltron | I don't think that's very far away from me |
| 20:00.08 | TS|Skrom | no, in fact one of the guys comes in from fenton too |
| 20:01.40 | TS|Skrom | is nickserv down? |
| 20:03.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dinesh (n=chatzill@146.145.196.188) |
| 20:05.32 | TS|Skrom | we play a loose interpretation of the d&d 3.5 rules, so basically if you don't know how to play it's cool because we are prolly just makign up most of it as we go along anyway |
| 20:05.32 | TS|Skrom | but we're consistent so that's good! |
| 20:06.13 | clad|book | i opened trade with a mage today for water.. and he gave me 600g and a stack of water |
| 20:06.16 | clad|book | greatest day evar |
| 20:06.21 | AnduinLothar | wtf? |
| 20:06.29 | AnduinLothar | quitng? |
| 20:06.30 | TS|Skrom | hahaha |
| 20:06.31 | deltron | clad|book: whoa |
| 20:06.49 | clad|book | nah, my boyfriend owed me 600g.. but it sounded better the way i put it :P |
| 20:06.56 | AnduinLothar | >.< |
| 20:07.20 | deltron | wut? |
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| 20:20.50 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm depressed :( |
| 20:21.09 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm more sad that the tribes master servers are being shut down than my dog being put down :( |
| 20:21.09 | TS|Skrom | why?> |
| 20:21.15 | Mr_Rabies2 | am i a bad person? |
| 20:21.31 | foxlit | Yes, horrible! |
| 20:21.32 | AnduinLothar | dogs are optional |
| 20:21.35 | AnduinLothar | and replacable |
| 20:22.02 | Mr_Rabies2 | well i guess a server can't really suffer so i don't have to worry about that |
| 20:22.11 | Mr_Rabies2 | but i'm really torn up about the tribes master server being shut down |
| 20:22.33 | Mr_Rabies2 | and was slightly less torn up over the news that my dog was gonna be put down :x |
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| 20:23.08 | deltron | *sigh* the fun I had in tribes... |
| 20:23.14 | Mr_Rabies2 | well, there's some hope |
| 20:23.29 | Mr_Rabies2 | some of the ex-dynamix developers are possibly going to set up a master server |
| 20:23.34 | Mr_Rabies2 | at garage games |
| 20:23.51 | Mr_Rabies2 | but still |
| 20:23.57 | Mr_Rabies2 | daaaaamn you vivendi :( |
| 20:25.00 | Mr_Rabies2 | it's still really depressing though |
| 20:25.08 | zenzelezz | I try to be kind to semi-casuals... but having a DPS warrior call out "more aggro tanks" on Void Reaver pisses me off |
| 20:25.46 | Mr_Rabies2 | i don't know how void reaver works |
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| 20:26.32 | Mr_Rabies2 | but yeah,saying "more aggro tanks" is pretty much useless because they're always doing their best to maximize threat output |
| 20:26.50 | Mr_Rabies2 | and a warrior should understand that more than anyone else |
| 20:28.05 | zenzelezz | Void Reaver does a knockback that about halves the tank's threat |
| 20:28.14 | Mr_Rabies2 | wow |
| 20:28.19 | Mr_Rabies2 | is he on farm? |
| 20:28.25 | zenzelezz | sort of |
| 20:28.26 | AnduinLothar | he's ez mode |
| 20:28.26 | deltron | you rotate tanks out on the fight |
| 20:28.38 | Mr_Rabies2 | yeah |
| 20:28.42 | Antiarc|Work | Not halves, multiplies by 0.75 |
| 20:28.45 | deltron | the biggest thing is that it's a dps race |
| 20:29.09 | zenzelezz | yeah, you have 10 minutes to DPS him down while still not going above the tanks |
| 20:29.23 | AnduinLothar | it's fine unless you get him off center and a melee get's targetted |
| 20:29.36 | Kaydeethree | which, for everyone except shadow priests and boomkins |
| 20:29.42 | Mr_Rabies2 | my threat output is abysmal |
| 20:29.55 | Kaydeethree | everyone else can drop aggro enough to dps burn but stay within the threat ceiling |
| 20:29.58 | Mr_Rabies2 | in bear form at least :x |
| 20:30.06 | Mr_Rabies2 | in cat form hell yeah i can build threat :p |
| 20:30.08 | AnduinLothar | be glad you aren't ret |
| 20:30.11 | zenzelezz | DPS warriors also can't drop threat |
| 20:30.11 | AnduinLothar | pally* |
| 20:30.20 | Kaydeethree | and dps warriors and retadins... |
| 20:30.36 | Mr_Rabies2 | cower's a pretty sore excuse for threat reduction, but it's better than nothing i suppose |
| 20:30.57 | Antiarc|Work | Cats get a 29% passive threat generation reduction, too. |
| 20:31.04 | Mr_Rabies2 | yar |
| 20:31.11 | Mr_Rabies2 | so does battle and berserker stance |
| 20:31.18 | Antiarc|Work | No, they get 20% |
| 20:31.20 | Mr_Rabies2 | or something similar |
| 20:31.20 | Mr_Rabies2 | yeah |
| 20:32.11 | Mr_Rabies2 | i still find myself having to back way down on dps in kara |
| 20:32.17 | Mr_Rabies2 | :[ |
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| 20:43.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Lunessa (n=chatzill@129.7.88.36) |
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| 20:47.03 | Lunessa | Trust Gello to spark really important and useful discussion! |
| 20:49.40 | Tuller | eh, I attempted to say that, but I was a little more subtle :) |
| 20:49.42 | Tuller | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=388089481&sid=1 |
| 20:49.47 | Tuller | is the thread |
| 20:50.38 | Lunessa | Sometimes, "Bull in the China Shop" is the only way to get your point across. |
| 20:50.54 | Tuller | true |
| 20:51.41 | Lunessa | BTW - Tuller, big fan of Bongos and OmniCC. |
| 20:51.48 | Tuller | thanks |
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| 21:02.43 | cog|work | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=383469443 |
| 21:04.23 | Lunessa | cog|work: You're a gnome with and evil streak as wide a ten-lane highway. Bless you. |
| 21:05.02 | AnduinLothar | lol awesome cog |
| 21:05.04 | deltron | cog|work: lmao |
| 21:05.16 | krka | link no work |
| 21:08.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Aella (n=Aella@74.221.43.140) |
| 21:08.09 | cog|work | krka: wfm (and others, apparently) |
| 21:08.23 | krka | if you reload it now? |
| 21:08.45 | cog|work | yep... |
| 21:08.48 | krka | "Server is busy, please try again" |
| 21:08.49 | krka | :/ |
| 21:08.57 | cog|work | that just means the server is busy... |
| 21:09.03 | cog|work | and that you should try again :P |
| 21:09.12 | krka | i did, several times |
| 21:09.24 | cog|work | :( |
| 21:09.24 | krka | now i get: |
| 21:09.24 | krka | Welcome to Blizzard Forums |
| 21:09.25 | krka | World of Warcraft |
| 21:09.27 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Aella (n=Aella@74.221.43.140) |
| 21:09.33 | krka | (redirected to http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/welcome.html ) |
| 21:09.44 | krka | does it detect that i am in EU or something? O_ |
| 21:10.02 | deltron | yeah, it's all like "omg foriegner!" |
| 21:10.10 | Lunessa | I hate server-busy eating my posts. |
| 21:10.44 | cog|work | krka: it'll redirect you if you reload... try clicking the original link again |
| 21:11.03 | cog|work | or just go to the main UI & Macros forum and look for the topic "Legit addon or not" |
| 21:11.21 | TS|Skrom | four levels deep in firefox? |
| 21:11.26 | TS|Skrom | what kind of plugin requres that XD |
| 21:11.31 | cog|work | TS|Skrom: srsly... |
| 21:11.48 | TS|Skrom | I've only got one option that even has a sublevel |
| 21:12.05 | Kaydeethree | bah. need more caffeine or something. irate rants aren't good for me |
| 21:12.09 | cog|work | My only option with a sub-level is from an addon |
| 21:12.19 | Lunessa | Anything more than 2 levels deep is too much - the HIG from Apple are a good read for anyone doing software development |
| 21:12.20 | TS|Skrom | mine might be too, "reload every >" |
| 21:12.41 | cog|work | yep xD |
| 21:12.55 | cog|work | best way to keep forum login alive |
| 21:13.25 | TS|Skrom | hah never thought of that |
| 21:13.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Telrin (n=test@shandalar.xs4all.nl) |
| 21:14.37 | TS|Skrom | time to go, later all |
| 21:15.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge amro (n=amro@82.101.184.139) |
| 21:15.53 | Lunessa | https://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=383389437&sid=1 post 2... LOL |
| 21:16.41 | cog|work | Server is busy, please try again. |
| 21:16.43 | cog|work | >< |
| 21:17.05 | Kaydeethree | ya, that was pretty funny |
| 21:17.26 | Lunessa | " I come to this forum about once a month to see if there are any developments in the world of macros. After surfing threads for five minutes I usually knock myself unconscious from banging my head on the desk." |
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| 21:18.19 | cog|work | ScytheBlade1: you might want to put in a disclaimer in IllegalAddon... someone just might be gullible enough to run it after installing glider or something... |
| 21:18.41 | ScytheBlade1 | cog|work, stupid line between "addons" and "third party programs" |
| 21:18.43 | ScytheBlade1 | But you're right |
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| 21:33.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik (i=nospam@216-164-200-188.s1966.apx1.atn.pa.dialup.rcn.com) |
| 21:41.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik|Ghost2 (i=nospam@216-164-200-128.s1906.apx1.atn.pa.dialup.rcn.com) |
| 21:44.38 | Cide | hmm |
| 21:45.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik|Ghost3 (i=nospam@216-164-249-86.s340.apx1.atn.pa.dialup.rcn.com) |
| 21:45.11 | Cide | hi Shirik, Shirik|Ghost2, Shirik|Ghost3 |
| 21:45.33 | Shirik | if damn people would stop picking up the phone >.> |
| 21:46.34 | deltron | ...dialup? |
| 21:46.43 | Josh_Borke | ... |
| 21:47.07 | Lunessa | ... LOL Poor Shirik. |
| 21:47.12 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Punkie` (n=~@host86-138-93-198.range86-138.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:47.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Josh_Borke (n=jk275@antimatter.stl.gtri.gatech.edu) |
| 21:47.40 | Shirik | haven't we gone over this already? |
| 21:48.25 | Cide | not afaik! |
| 21:49.35 | ThraeBot | http://tinyurl.com/22oza2 [Josh_Borke] |
| 21:49.39 | Josh_Borke | drat |
| 22:02.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Josh_Borke (n=jk275@antimatter.stl.gtri.gatech.edu) |
| 22:03.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Josh_Borke (n=jk275@antimatter.stl.gtri.gatech.edu) |
| 22:07.31 | Josh_Borke | well it was clearly a biased statement |
| 22:07.56 | Shirik | but it's pointless, you might as well drop it. That's why I said "ha" and left it at that |
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| 22:10.34 | Josh_Borke | nothing is pointless. i succeed at alienating myself more and more |
| 22:10.42 | Josh_Borke | now include CTL in RDX :-P |
| 22:10.48 | Shirik | ha |
| 22:12.29 | Josh_Borke | purl, comfort cide |
| 22:12.30 | purl | There, there, cide. It's OK. I'm here for you. |
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| 22:18.17 | cog|work | ~emulate cogwheel |
| 22:18.18 | purl | ACTION shakes its fist at the forums... http://ctscreens.net/5307 |
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| 22:31.26 | Lunessa | ... server is busy... server is busy... server is busy... FFS... |
| 22:31.37 | Tuller | haha |
| 22:34.38 | Lunessa | I demand my server drama entertainment... I need something to do while the students are away during the summer... I pay my fee, I want my service! (Tongue planted FIRMLY in my cheek!) |
| 22:35.05 | Shirik | write up a tech support post |
| 22:35.09 | Shirik | or customer service post |
| 22:35.19 | Maldivia | hmm... any mages here? |
| 22:35.23 | Shirik | say every time you type /script function a(a) coroutine.wrap(a)(a) end, wow crashes |
| 22:35.37 | Shirik | say that it's ruining your WoW experience |
| 22:35.52 | Shirik | and when they ignore you, complain loudly |
| 22:36.00 | Lunessa | LOUDLY! |
| 22:36.11 | Shirik | as in, you type with so many caps, they can hear you |
| 22:36.14 | Shirik | in california |
| 22:36.31 | Lunessa | Bonus points if I threaten to leave and explain how many more customers will too? |
| 22:36.48 | Shirik | yes |
| 22:36.52 | Shirik | and say that you have multiple accounts |
| 22:37.13 | Josh_Borke | threaten to DDos them |
| 22:38.53 | Shirik | lol |
| 22:39.03 | Shirik | DDoS their login server |
| 22:39.07 | Shirik | oh wait, it's down anyway that won't matter |
| 22:39.51 | Lunessa | I will complain most forcefully. |
| 22:41.02 | Shirik | cladhaire: wtf that thread is STILL going? |
| 22:42.08 | cladhaire | ino! |
| 22:42.16 | Shirik | server is busy! |
| 22:42.37 | Shirik | thou shalt not reply to the ace thread! |
| 22:42.43 | Josh_Borke | cladhaire: are you going to have a chance to work on your addons tonight? |
| 22:42.49 | Josh_Borke | or did you not make enough progress? |
| 22:43.02 | cladhaire | yet to be seen |
| 22:45.06 | Maldivia | hehe... poor cogwheel :) |
| 22:45.41 | Josh_Borke | link to thread |
| 22:46.27 | Legorol | oh, drama? where and what? |
| 22:46.40 | Josh_Borke | found it |
| 22:47.38 | Josh_Borke | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=330656744&sid=1 gief more ace! |
| 22:48.12 | Lunessa | i can haz addons? |
| 22:52.29 | cladhaire | that thread should be dead |
| 22:52.36 | cladhaire | i made all the necessary points in my first two posts |
| 22:52.46 | Maldivia | so no mages here tonight? |
| 22:53.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge KarlThePagan (n=andross@lanip-170-65.go180.net) |
| 22:53.27 | Lunessa | ... depends. Does having a level 70 mage count? |
| 22:54.06 | Maldivia | Lunessa: have you tested blizzard and clearcasting on the PTR ?:) |
| 22:54.14 | Lunessa | Nope. |
| 22:54.36 | Lunessa | I don't get enough time to play on the main realms, let alone the PTR. |
| 22:54.54 | Maldivia | every wave of blizzard can proc clearcasting, meaning a full blizzard has 80% chance to proc clearcasting :) |
| 22:55.58 | cladhaire | wow |
| 22:55.59 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 22:58.10 | Josh_Borke | wow |
| 23:00.13 | Maldivia | or well, should rather say 8 waves of each 10% chance, pr cast |
| 23:00.28 | Josh_Borke | bye bye |
| 23:00.44 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Josh_Borke (n=jk275@antimatter.stl.gtri.gatech.edu) |
| 23:02.03 | Antiarc|Work | That's still just 10%, isn't it? |
| 23:02.26 | Antiarc|Work | I guess 80% over the duration of the blizzard |
| 23:02.52 | Antiarc|Work | On average. |
| 23:03.32 | Maldivia | Antiarc|Work: well, normally, there's only one check, to see if clearcasting should proc, now there's 8 for Blizzard :) |
| 23:03.43 | Antiarc|Work | hax imo :P |
| 23:03.58 | Legorol | i read the drama thread |
| 23:04.04 | Maldivia | yeah, they'll probably change it back :| |
| 23:04.11 | Maldivia | nice mana-effecient aoe though |
| 23:04.19 | Legorol | cladhaire: to be entirely honest, i think you overreacted and misread the OP, and then the thread split into two different/parallel topics |
| 23:04.32 | Legorol | and then drama ensued as people don't notice that they are talking about two different things |
| 23:04.42 | cladhaire | i didn't misread the OP |
| 23:04.54 | Legorol | the OP asked for alternatives, not that your addons are Aced |
| 23:04.55 | cladhaire | he meant exactly what I think he meant =) |
| 23:04.59 | cladhaire | ... |
| 23:05.03 | Legorol | he also explained why he is looking for those alternatives |
| 23:05.06 | cladhaire | and i responded that I found that offensive |
| 23:05.08 | Legorol | imo that part you misunderstood |
| 23:05.13 | cladhaire | no, i completely _got_ that |
| 23:05.16 | Maldivia | someone wanting a substitute addon, because he/she thinks Ace is the only way to go, since he's lazy and just wants to run a program that updates everything for him/her |
| 23:05.17 | cladhaire | i just didn't like it, nor did i need to. |
| 23:05.30 | Legorol | may i quote you? |
| 23:05.32 | Legorol | "As an addon author, and the author of these two addons, I can say that there is absolutely no reason either of these addons need to be aced. Why the absolute obsession" |
| 23:05.37 | Legorol | that's your opening statement |
| 23:05.44 | Legorol | he did not ask for your addons to be aced |
| 23:05.49 | cladhaire | no he didn't |
| 23:05.55 | cladhaire | my words are less, so my meaning isn't clear |
| 23:05.55 | Legorol | that's why i beleive you overreacted, although with good reasons |
| 23:06.01 | cladhaire | looking for ace alternative to a non-aced addon |
| 23:06.07 | cladhaire | is exactly the same as asking for an addon to be aced. |
| 23:06.13 | cladhaire | if there was one, he would use it instead of mine. |
| 23:06.19 | Legorol | yes |
| 23:06.22 | cladhaire | he's not asking ME to ace the addon, he's looking for someone to do it. |
| 23:06.26 | cladhaire | for his convenience |
| 23:06.26 | Legorol | that's not the same as asking you to ace yours |
| 23:06.37 | cladhaire | i didn't say he asked me to ace my addons =) |
| 23:06.39 | cladhaire | read what you just posted |
| 23:06.46 | Legorol | he is asking if there is an addon out there with similar functionality that suits his particular need (ease of update) |
| 23:06.57 | cladhaire | And I find that offensive |
| 23:07.02 | Legorol | which is fine |
| 23:07.07 | Legorol | but your first line doesn't imply that |
| 23:07.08 | cladhaire | my words don't betray that |
| 23:07.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mr_Rabies2 (n=catbutts@adsl-066-156-082-132.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 23:07.14 | cladhaire | agree to disagree |
| 23:07.16 | cladhaire | i suppose |
| 23:07.17 | Legorol | hehe ok |
| 23:07.58 | Legorol | but i'm just trying to point out that a) you started off on a very forceful tone (whether rightly or wrongly that's irrelevant) and b) for most readers of the thread, with a statement that apparently is not equivalent to the OPs request |
| 23:08.03 | Legorol | you explained yourself later on though |
| 23:08.13 | cladhaire | I don't edit posts, it gets too confusing |
| 23:08.24 | Legorol | i agree with that policy :o) |
| 23:08.26 | cladhaire | then people claim i'm hiding from the truth, etc. |
| 23:08.31 | cladhaire | i dont mind sounding like an asshole |
| 23:08.36 | Legorol | anyway, people did end up talking about two related, but separate things: |
| 23:08.40 | Legorol | 1) acing existing mods |
| 23:08.47 | Legorol | 2) using ace-based alternatives |
| 23:08.53 | Legorol | i don't think those two are the same thing |
| 23:09.07 | cladhaire | i wouldn't entirely agree with that |
| 23:09.09 | Legorol | OP asked for 2, you mostly reacted to 1, but dislike 2 as well. end of story imo |
| 23:09.23 | cladhaire | find me an ace-based alternative to a mod, that wasn't made in order to "Ace" an existing mod |
| 23:09.43 | Legorol | Omen |
| 23:09.47 | cladhaire | ... |
| 23:09.56 | cladhaire | it was made with the sole purpose of providing an ace based threat meter |
| 23:09.57 | Legorol | i beleive it's an addon from scratch that was made in order to provide competition to KTM |
| 23:10.04 | cladhaire | .. that's Aceing a mod |
| 23:10.11 | cladhaire | rewriting the concept from scratch, using Ace |
| 23:10.11 | Legorol | i don't think that's the whole story |
| 23:10.22 | Lunessa | I support cladhaire's stance and responses. Anything which a) gives me more and better AddOn choices and b) leads to my being entertained are good things. :P |
| 23:10.27 | Legorol | yup, but i think its ace-ness is not relevant to Omen |
| 23:10.42 | Legorol | it is rewritten from scratch to a) provide additional functionality b) be less of a resource hog |
| 23:10.48 | cladhaire | yes |
| 23:11.01 | Legorol | mind you, i strongly attacked Omen initially due to its very strong anti-KTM PR |
| 23:11.07 | cladhaire | i was here |
| 23:11.14 | Legorol | nevertheless, i feel it's one example where it isn't just about it being Aced |
| 23:11.17 | cladhaire | http://svn.wowace.com/wowace/trunk/Threat-1.0/embeds.xml |
| 23:11.21 | Legorol | yup |
| 23:11.30 | cladhaire | it seems you misunderstand what "Ace"ing i'm referring to. |
| 23:11.40 | Legorol | mind you, i am totally on your side, i am not saying i disagree with the content of your statements |
| 23:11.40 | cladhaire | Because this is a clear example of it |
| 23:11.54 | cladhaire | although, "Ace" was not the motivation here |
| 23:11.55 | Legorol | all i've tried to say is that, imo, your initial post was tangential and inflammatory ;-) |
| 23:12.04 | Legorol | that's not bad necessarily :o) |
| 23:12.08 | cladhaire | and I disagree with your interpretation of what I'm saying |
| 23:12.20 | cladhaire | Inflammatory, yes, I was extremely offended, and I feel I have a right to be so. |
| 23:12.22 | Legorol | you can disagree with my interpretation of it, that's fine |
| 23:12.36 | Legorol | i'm merely trying to say that imo to most readers, it will have come across as it has come across to me on first reading |
| 23:12.42 | cladhaire | that's fine |
| 23:13.33 | Legorol | are you 100% sure you didn't get offended partly because you assumed the OP is implying that an Aced version of an AddOn is better? |
| 23:13.36 | Antiarc|Work | The purpose of Omen was to have a threat meter that didn't eat my system CPU |
| 23:13.36 | Cide | I think there are two versions of the "to Ace" word.. forgive me for using two examples that have affected me, but 1) CT_MailMod -> GMail, and 2) CTRA -> oRA[2].. I have no problems at all with 2), but it illustrates the concept |
| 23:13.45 | Cide | and I believe Legorol was referring to 1) and cladhaire to 2) |
| 23:13.52 | cladhaire | Legorol: Yes, i am 100% positive, and I see in my words, EXACTLY what I meant |
| 23:13.52 | Antiarc|Work | And I wrote it on Ace because using the framework let me write business logic, rather than spending time on frameworks. |
| 23:13.59 | Antiarc|Work | Not to have an "Ace KTM" |
| 23:14.02 | Mr_Rabies2 | i like ace-based addons purely because i can always keep on the bleeding edge of updates with little effort |
| 23:14.06 | cladhaire | Antiarc: indeed.. i never said you wanted to have an Ace KTM |
| 23:14.09 | Antiarc|Work | (I hate it when people refer to Omen as an Ace'd KTM) |
| 23:14.19 | cladhaire | Legorol: If you arent' in my brain, i accept the words are ambiguous |
| 23:14.20 | Mr_Rabies2 | that's the only advantage to the end user that has update OCD but is also lazy |
| 23:14.39 | Mr_Rabies2 | and it has nothing to do with ace |
| 23:14.48 | Legorol | ok, i would like to submit to the audience an interesting point: |
| 23:14.53 | Mr_Rabies2 | circumstances just happened to wind ace based addons up with an SVN |
| 23:15.02 | Legorol | let's take a few steps back and examine the state of Cosmos/Khaos a year or two ago |
| 23:15.05 | cog|work | Meh... whenever I start getting hot and bothered by cladhaire I just think, "you silly bitch" and it's all better <3 |
| 23:15.08 | Legorol | because the same thing has now happened to Ace |
| 23:15.13 | Legorol | I would like to illustrate the parallels |
| 23:15.22 | Legorol | lol cog|work |
| 23:15.26 | Mr_Rabies2 | i use cosmos and ace so /popcorn |
| 23:15.39 | Lunessa | cog|work: ... stop, you're turning me on. |
| 23:15.40 | Legorol | basically, the word "Ace" has become a phenomenon that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people |
| 23:15.50 | cladhaire | I didn't realize this was a theatre |
| 23:15.52 | Legorol | Ace is a library, a cult, an update methodology, and more |
| 23:15.55 | Legorol | cladhaire: lol |
| 23:15.59 | cladhaire | i'm not kidding. |
| 23:16.01 | Mr_Rabies2 | i used more of cosmos back in the day when it was always updated on the bleeding edge |
| 23:16.03 | Maldivia | I don't understand why people absolutely think an addon is better, because it use the ace framework |
| 23:16.10 | Legorol | i'd like to finish if i may ;-) |
| 23:16.15 | Matrix110 | Because people are retarted |
| 23:16.22 | Kaydeethree | keep talking, we can handle more than one convo at a time |
| 23:16.36 | Legorol | back in the days, Cosmos had a terrible PR problem, because it represented different things: a dev framework, an addon package, an update method, and more |
| 23:16.49 | Legorol | people would dislike one aspect or the other, and would attack the whole of Cosmos |
| 23:16.55 | Legorol | the same thing is now happening with Ace imo |
| 23:17.02 | Mr_Rabies2 | now that the authors are busy or bored with their addons i've found myself moving more towards ace based alternatives because of my desire to always be absolutely up to date |
| 23:17.04 | Legorol | it has grown to encompass a variety of subjects |
| 23:17.31 | Antiarc|Work | To clarify, I wrote Threat and Omen because Kenco had made it clear that he wasn't going to address KTM's use of OnUpdate, and I felt I could do better, and could add in the features I wanted in the process. I chose Ace because I didn't want to write it from scratch and I already knew the Ace libs. There was absolutely zero political motivation to have an "Ace threat meter". |
| 23:17.31 | Maldivia | Mr_Rabies2: so you think ace developers don't get busy or bored with their addons ? |
| 23:17.33 | Antiarc|Work | </derail> |
| 23:17.37 | Mr_Rabies2 | not at all, Maldivia |
| 23:17.42 | Legorol | i just find it amusing to see that the exact same trends have emerged wrt Ace that have plagued Cosmos |
| 23:17.46 | Mr_Rabies2 | but at the moment, they update much more frequently than cosmos |
| 23:17.50 | Mr_Rabies2 | especially ckknight |
| 23:17.51 | cladhaire | Antiarc|Work: I understand that 100%, and I'm sorry if you feel I indicated otherwise |
| 23:17.54 | Mr_Rabies2 | and i love seeing new features |
| 23:18.01 | Mr_Rabies2 | it's like getting new mail that's not junk for me |
| 23:18.02 | Mr_Rabies2 | :P |
| 23:18.06 | Antiarc|Work | cladhaire: Not you specifically. Just a general impression I've gotten. |
| 23:18.22 | Legorol | Mr_Rabies: your point about updates is completely wrong |
| 23:18.30 | Legorol | *some* addons that are on the Ace SVN get updated often |
| 23:18.38 | Legorol | does it imply that *Ace* is updated more often? |
| 23:18.40 | Mr_Rabies2 | well most of mine get updated several times a day |
| 23:18.42 | Antiarc|Work | When someone writes another implementation of an idea on the Ace framework, it gets the baggage and stigma of "being aced", be that a positive or negative connotation to the reader. |
| 23:18.44 | Legorol | what is "Ace" anyway? |
| 23:18.54 | cladhaire | Antiarc|Work: I've been with you the entire way, think what you've done is great, think Kenco was being an idiot in his thread.. but I absolutely and 100% condemn the mob that followed nymbi there, and without posting a single post, made the thread into an Ace versus Kenco thread |
| 23:18.55 | cladhaire | I don' |
| 23:19.03 | cladhaire | I don't blame ace for that, I blame curses userbase =) |
| 23:19.05 | Antiarc|Work | cladhaire: Right there with you. |
| 23:19.12 | Antiarc|Work | I'm not a fan of bandwagoners on either side. |
| 23:19.32 | Legorol | what it all comes down to is a simple sociological factor: everyone has a favourite football team |
| 23:19.34 | Kaydeethree | but what would software be if not for the holy wars? |
| 23:19.40 | cladhaire | Antiarc|Work: Well, what "Aced" used to mean, back when it first started, was to take an addon and rewrite it from scratch using the Ace framework (for convenience) |
| 23:19.44 | Legorol | and they will go as far as beating each others' heads, literally, over it |
| 23:19.52 | Maldivia | Kaydeethree: vim >> emacs!! |
| 23:19.57 | Kaydeethree | I agree |
| 23:20.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r54h77.res.gatech.edu) |
| 23:20.04 | Mr_Rabies2 | if there was a way i could use a program that didn't take hours to set up properly and liked to break to update using other methods i would |
| 23:20.12 | Mr_Rabies2 | WUU's a long ways off to being what i want |
| 23:20.32 | Mr_Rabies2 | and it's much easier to hit "update all" than go to curse, go to favorites, etc |
| 23:20.42 | Legorol | cladhaire: i have a question for you |
| 23:20.46 | cladhaire | shoot |
| 23:20.54 | cog|work | bang! |
| 23:21.07 | Maldivia | Mr_Rabies2: yeah, it's convenient, but there's always the chance of getting "work-in-progress" code that doesn't work |
| 23:21.08 | Legorol | would you have taken the same level of offense if the OP asked for "an alternative to Clique that is easier for me to keep up to date (because i'm lazy)?" |
| 23:21.14 | Mr_Rabies2 | yes, Maldivia |
| 23:21.15 | Maldivia | Mr_Rabies2: where as releases are (most often) stable |
| 23:21.18 | Legorol | with no mention of Ace |
| 23:21.18 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm fine with that |
| 23:21.37 | Matrix110 | why should cladhaire care if you use Click2Cast over Clique? |
| 23:21.52 | cladhaire | Legorol: yes, I would have.. because one update roughly every month and a half is worth the cost of my addon. |
| 23:21.55 | Mr_Rabies2 | usually it's minor and i can bitch about it to the author in here and he has it fixed in minutes, or i just deal with a halfway broken addon until it gets fixed |
| 23:22.07 | Legorol | cladhaire: ok |
| 23:22.34 | Matrix110 | and tbh you can use a clique version back from TBC start and it works like almost the same as now |
| 23:22.41 | cladhaire | yep |
| 23:22.48 | Legorol | personally i'd never take offense at anyone chosing an alternative over my addon if it suits their particular needs better |
| 23:22.53 | Matrix110 | 50% of the "updates" you do with WAU are localisation updates |
| 23:22.54 | cog|work | Mr_Rabies2: do you gripe when your toc files are out of date even if there's nothing wrong with the mod? ;) |
| 23:23.01 | Mr_Rabies2 | nope |
| 23:23.01 | Legorol | even if percieve those needs to be misconcieved |
| 23:23.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Wobin (n=wobin@203-214-134-198.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 23:23.34 | cladhaire | i'm easily offended, I'll be the first to admit that |
| 23:23.39 | Legorol | however, as i said earlier cladhaire, i have absolutely no problem with the content of your posts, and wholeheartidly agree with most of it |
| 23:23.40 | cladhaire | and then be offended at the implication that I'm easily offended. |
| 23:24.03 | Legorol | i really only was trying to point out that imo your response split the thread in two |
| 23:24.11 | Legorol | which isn't necessarily bad ;-) |
| 23:24.14 | Maldivia | I must admit, I'm often slow to upload new releases of my addons, because I mostly just develop for myself, and upload when friends etc bug me for a new version :) |
| 23:24.20 | Mr_Rabies2 | i just like having new features added constantly and not having to go through the mess most addon sites have to update |
| 23:24.27 | cladhaire | you're lucky it didn't go into four threads, thats where the equivalent ace thread is now. |
| 23:24.34 | Mr_Rabies2 | ckknight's updating frequency is inhuman |
| 23:24.36 | Legorol | lol |
| 23:24.37 | Mr_Rabies2 | he's gotta be a robot |
| 23:24.47 | Lunessa | Just caffienated. |
| 23:24.50 | cladhaire | Mr_Rabies: This is why I post on wowinterface.com, they email you the link to download the file.. no mess, no worries. |
| 23:24.57 | Cide | or he's just committing every time he saves the file... |
| 23:25.01 | Mr_Rabies2 | do they, cladhaire? |
| 23:25.06 | Mr_Rabies2 | i just use the rss feed |
| 23:25.12 | cladhaire | add it to yoru favorites |
| 23:25.15 | cladhaire | you get an email, with the download link |
| 23:25.22 | Legorol | cladhaire: in all honesty, it is easier for a lazy enduser to just click an icon to update all their mods |
| 23:25.24 | Mr_Rabies2 | but most of my favorites there only get updated once a month or so |
| 23:25.29 | Legorol | let's face it, that is easier (lazier) |
| 23:25.34 | cladhaire | like i said, that won't work for 200 addons |
| 23:25.35 | Mr_Rabies2 | and i'm too OCD to only use release versions |
| 23:25.43 | Legorol | now whether it's worth sacrificing good addons over that, is a different issue |
| 23:25.50 | cladhaire | Legorol: I'd disagree with that on principle. |
| 23:25.54 | Mr_Rabies2 | well i'm really picky |
| 23:26.08 | Mr_Rabies2 | it just so happens that the addons i use are both heavily customizable AND easily updatable |
| 23:26.14 | Kaydeethree | good addons win, 100% of the time. what platform it uses matters not |
| 23:26.20 | cladhaire | the time the average ace user spends working out any conflicts they have between all their broken trunk addons, is more than the time it takes to update the few addons that were hosted at wowinterface.com :P |
| 23:26.22 | cladhaire | Kaydeethree: amen |
| 23:26.36 | Legorol | not 100% amen |
| 23:26.52 | Legorol | a good addon that is updated every other day, and i'm expected to keep downloading it all the time, |
| 23:26.54 | Legorol | is not worth my time |
| 23:26.55 | Mr_Rabies2 | i like to see authors keeping their code up to date |
| 23:27.08 | Legorol | i will go with a not-so-good addon that i only have to redownload every so often |
| 23:27.13 | Cide | that's the thing though, Mr_Rabies2 |
| 23:27.13 | cladhaire | Mr_Rabies2: That's a dangerous thing *shrug* |
| 23:27.14 | Mr_Rabies2 | that means they're probably less likely to get burned out and suddenly leave awesome addons hanging unusable |
| 23:27.20 | Cide | my addons don't have many bugs at all |
| 23:27.25 | cladhaire | that's what you interpret it to mean |
| 23:27.29 | cladhaire | that doesn't mean its the message conveyed |
| 23:27.30 | Maldivia | Personally I prefer milestone releases, instead of nightly builds |
| 23:27.45 | Legorol | i prefer authors to properly test, and release addons |
| 23:27.48 | Cide | what do you mean with 'keep up to date'? I'm not adding new features all the time - does that mean it's outdated? |
| 23:27.54 | Mr_Rabies2 | when it's months between releases i start expecting the incoming "this addon has been discontinued" notice |
| 23:28.01 | Legorol | i abhor the idea that most addons on the ace svn are forever in a constant beta state |
| 23:28.31 | Legorol | that's just me though, and it's personal opinion |
| 23:28.38 | Cide | I agree, Legorol |
| 23:28.40 | Maldivia | Mr_Rabies2: but what if the addon just didn't need updating ? |
| 23:28.52 | Mr_Rabies2 | then i get surprised |
| 23:28.55 | Mr_Rabies2 | when they update it |
| 23:28.57 | Kaydeethree | hardly, I quite agree. that's why I try to not snag updates from the files.wowace all that often |
| 23:28.58 | Legorol | I prefer if i only have to redownload an addon when TOC changes |
| 23:29.11 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm expecting gello to get bored altogether soon |
| 23:29.19 | Legorol | the only exception is major feature improvements or significant and important bugfixes |
| 23:29.34 | Mr_Rabies2 | he makes so many awesome addons but seems to get tired of developing existing ones and leaves them to rot occasionally |
| 23:29.36 | Maldivia | Mr_Rabies2: there are addons that are just "perfect", and the only new releases are compatability releases for changes in api etc |
| 23:30.01 | cladhaire | if my requests, and bug reports are ignored by an author, I'll find somethign new |
| 23:30.08 | cladhaire | if it works, no reason to jump ship |
| 23:30.18 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm always looking for alternatives |
| 23:30.27 | Mr_Rabies2 | not just ace alternatives but better alternatives in general |
| 23:30.53 | Mr_Rabies2 | i've got like 3 floating combat text addons installed at the moment |
| 23:30.57 | Mr_Rabies2 | trying to decide what i like the most |
| 23:31.12 | JoshBorke | obviously you should use the blizzard one |
| 23:31.17 | Kaydeethree | meh. I'll stick with my inertia-based approach. what I have works. if it breaks, I get something else |
| 23:31.23 | cladhaire | word to that |
| 23:31.28 | Mr_Rabies2 | i've never been that way, Kaydeethree |
| 23:31.34 | Matrix110 | The Blizzard one is even worse than the first version of SCT.... |
| 23:31.46 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'd rather have it broken occasionally and constantly be able to keep up to date |
| 23:31.51 | Mr_Rabies2 | it's a character flaw i guess |
| 23:32.00 | Mr_Rabies2 | i like staying on the bleeding edge |
| 23:32.11 | Maldivia | the blizzard FCT has all the necessary information, but is just not very customizable |
| 23:32.22 | Legorol | cladhaire: even though you are easily offended, i hope you didn't take too much offense at the fact that I was somewhat negative of your offended post |
| 23:32.27 | Legorol | :o) |
| 23:32.34 | cladhaire | I was |
| 23:32.34 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm pretty thick skinned |
| 23:32.40 | cladhaire | but that doesn't matter in the end :P |
| 23:32.42 | Legorol | cladhaire: :'( |
| 23:32.52 | Legorol | it does, i don't like offending you |
| 23:32.56 | Mr_Rabies2 | but when i get genuinely pissed off i break out the claws |
| 23:32.58 | Legorol | you have this @ sign in front of your name :P |
| 23:33.08 | Legorol | no other reason, honest |
| 23:33.11 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 23:33.14 | Maldivia | heh |
| 23:33.15 | Mr_Rabies2 | even to moderators and admins |
| 23:33.24 | cladhaire | i'm more likely to kick myself than you |
| 23:33.30 | Mr_Rabies2 | luckily it takes a lot to make me angry |
| 23:33.43 | Legorol | kicking oneself hurts.. been there done that IRL |
| 23:33.46 | cladhaire | Mr_Rabies2: I rarely get angry.. very very very extremely rarely |
| 23:33.47 | Matrix110 | oh could somebody post this: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info7355-IllegalAddon.html here http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=388089985&sid=1 |
| 23:33.54 | Matrix110 | dont have US access:-( |
| 23:34.08 | *** part/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r54h77.res.gatech.edu) |
| 23:34.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r54h77.res.gatech.edu) |
| 23:34.25 | cladhaire | Legorol: I prefer criticism |
| 23:34.35 | cladhaire | its the only way i improve |
| 23:34.36 | JoshBorke | cladhaire: you suck! |
| 23:34.43 | JoshBorke | like that? |
| 23:35.01 | Mr_Rabies2 | cladhaire: |
| 23:35.07 | cladhaire | constructive criticism poo-face |
| 23:35.23 | JoshBorke | cladhaire: you suck because you never work on your mods. sleep less and write more |
| 23:35.24 | cladhaire | trite nastiness will be dealt with harshly |
| 23:35.29 | Mr_Rabies2 | HAY CULD U PLZ ACE TIHS PLX I NED ACE ADONS CUZ I DNT WNT VIRSUSZ |
| 23:35.43 | Lunessa | I prefer fawning 'yes' people who will fetch me drinks, listen to me hold court on my under-informed opinions and feed me peeled grapes while offering me the sexual favors of their attractive sisters and daughters. Know where I can find some? |
| 23:35.45 | JoshBorke | cladhaire: like that? |
| 23:35.48 | cladhaire | JoshBorke: Ah.. see now I know I can ignore you, and continue with the rest of my life, since your opinion is clearly meaningless |
| 23:35.54 | Legorol | whoever came up with that IllegalAddon thing is a genius |
| 23:35.56 | cladhaire | so yes, you revealed just enough =) |
| 23:36.00 | Legorol | i hope it's a big file with no-ops :D |
| 23:36.05 | JoshBorke | awesome :-) |
| 23:36.14 | JoshBorke | cladhaire: glad we worked out the kinks so you could improve |
| 23:36.24 | Cide | IllegalAddon? |
| 23:36.26 | Legorol | actually i just realised that IllegalAddon isn't such a smart idea after all |
| 23:36.31 | Legorol | Cide: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info7355-IllegalAddon.html |
| 23:36.32 | JoshBorke | /bans #wowi-lounge |
| 23:36.37 | JoshBorke | obviously doesn't work with pidgin |
| 23:36.42 | Legorol | it doesn't scan for trojans/viruses, some people will be misled |
| 23:36.44 | Mr_Rabies2 | i hear it's made with ivory, Cide |
| 23:37.05 | Mr_Rabies2 | delicious delicious elephant ivory |
| 23:37.27 | Cide | hehe |
| 23:37.33 | Maldivia | Legorol: no, because SB made it show on PEW, instead of login, so it shows everytime you zone :) |
| 23:37.54 | Legorol | lol |
| 23:38.00 | Legorol | anyhoo, it is indeed a big no-op :D |
| 23:38.01 | Cide | sadly, people will simply misinterpret it to imply that there *are* illegal addons |
| 23:38.01 | Legorol | that's hilarious |
| 23:38.09 | Legorol | Cide: there are |
| 23:38.15 | Legorol | cross-faction communication is explicitly against the ToU |
| 23:38.17 | Legorol | that's the only one |
| 23:38.24 | Mr_Rabies2 | i don't think that's even possible anymore |
| 23:38.26 | Cide | yeah, but that's likely impossible now |
| 23:38.34 | Maldivia | Legorol: but they are very very hard to make :) |
| 23:38.35 | Cide | unless you find an exploit in the API, that is |
| 23:38.36 | Matrix110 | it still works afaik |
| 23:38.50 | Legorol | Cide: it's still trivial to make one |
| 23:38.52 | Mr_Rabies2 | they changed the algorithm AFTER AL removed his nicely |
| 23:38.52 | Cide | well, technically it's still possible |
| 23:38.58 | Legorol | in fact my original proof-of-concept cross-faction comm addon still works |
| 23:38.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kyahx (n=Kyahx@74-33-20-171.dsl1.mnd.mn.frontiernet.net) |
| 23:39.03 | Legorol | it's very unwieldy, but it works |
| 23:39.05 | Cide | Legorol: yeah, I realized that shortly after |
| 23:39.25 | Mr_Rabies2 | i know what i miss |
| 23:39.26 | Legorol | but the big problem is this: |
| 23:39.26 | Maldivia | Legorol: didn't they change it, so there were no one-to-one mappings? |
| 23:39.29 | Mr_Rabies2 | goto for cosmos |
| 23:39.33 | Mr_Rabies2 | /gotocorpse |
| 23:39.35 | Cide | Maldivia: pick two letters, figure out what they translate into, and use them as substitutes for 1 and 0 |
| 23:39.37 | Legorol | it's not the AddOns per se that are legal or illegal, but it's *what you do with them* |
| 23:39.37 | Mr_Rabies2 | i really miss gotocorpse |
| 23:39.37 | Mr_Rabies2 | :[ |
| 23:39.46 | Legorol | Maldivia: irrelevant |
| 23:39.56 | Legorol | Cide: you don't even need that |
| 23:39.58 | Kaydeethree | meh, auto-disembark was my favorite |
| 23:39.59 | Maldivia | Cide: or just emote spam :) |
| 23:40.07 | Cide | Legorol: perhaps not |
| 23:40.07 | Mr_Rabies2 | gotocorpse made corpse runs so much fun |
| 23:40.09 | Legorol | the only thing you need (which WoW does atm) is conserve word/space boundaries |
| 23:40.31 | Legorol | it can alter word length and length of space |
| 23:40.44 | Legorol | as long as it doesn't merge or split words, so the number of words in a sentence is constant |
| 23:41.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge batrick (n=batrick@c-76-18-69-99.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 23:42.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge batrick (n=batrick@c-76-18-69-99.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 23:42.32 | cladhaire | they hit that one with the ToU cause they dont want to find a way to break it :P |
| 23:42.34 | Kemayo | Legorol: Use emotes, I guess? |
| 23:42.35 | cladhaire | cheaters |
| 23:42.55 | Legorol | i actually like the direction Blizzard ahs gone in |
| 23:43.17 | Legorol | they moved away from the "this addon is OK, this one isn't", and instead focus on acceptable and unacceptable gameplay methods |
| 23:43.26 | Legorol | i guess it was necessary to broaden the horizon like that with stuff like G15 around |
| 23:43.38 | cladhaire | yeah |
| 23:43.53 | Legorol | so it's now more general and clear imo what is and isn't acceptable |
| 23:44.04 | Lunessa | You know what I miss? Users who were willing to do some of the work themselves. |
| 23:44.21 | Antiarc|Work | Those exist? |
| 23:44.24 | Maldivia | I'm surprised by the number of people asking on the forums, how to control another char |
| 23:44.37 | Kemayo | I believe that those users wind up being the addon authors. |
| 23:45.00 | Legorol | lol i was about to say: i as a user hunt down bugs.. but then i realised i don't count per Kemayo's definition :o) |
| 23:45.44 | Kemayo | If you're willing to do some of the work yourself, you're probably going to wind up with an itch that has not yet been scratched, and start writing addons yourself. :) |
| 23:46.07 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Guillotine_Ghost (n=Guilloti@63.203.120.57) |
| 23:46.18 | Maldivia | damn I miss US forum posting right... the EU UI forums are just so slow... a post I made two days ago is still on the first page |
| 23:46.33 | Lunessa | ... and thus you have the Xth qulaity of a developer. |
| 23:47.28 | Legorol | well i'm lazy |
| 23:47.34 | Legorol | i don't really code addon(s) anymore |
| 23:47.42 | Legorol | but i find and fix bugs in the ones i use, then submit to the author |
| 23:47.51 | Legorol | usually explaining to the author in the process what they done wrong and why ;-) |
| 23:48.34 | Maldivia | speaking of bugs... have some beans to debug tomorrow, so I'll better get to bed |
| 23:49.10 | Maldivia | goodnight |
| 23:51.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Thelyna (n=burp@222-153-108-219.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 23:53.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dinesh (n=chatzill@c-68-36-168-161.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 23:56.36 | Legorol | lol @ http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=383469443&sid=1 |
| 23:56.39 | Legorol | someone's already falling for it |
| 23:57.04 | Legorol | i see that you guys got tired of educating people and prefer to shut them up ;-) |
| 23:57.26 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm pretty good at finding bugs |
| 23:57.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge tedrock (n=tedrock@d235-159-230.home1.cgocable.net) |
| 23:57.43 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm naturally unlucky and like to test the boundaries of addons and stuff |
| 23:57.49 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Thelyna (n=burp@222-153-108-219.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 23:58.04 | Mr_Rabies2 | and the combination means if it's breakable i can break it :P |
| 23:58.28 | Mr_Rabies2 | fixing it, i'm not so good at |