| 00:11.12 | Bleeter | client side patch, 3AM May 30 PDT |
| 00:12.05 | Tem | This is really pissing me off |
| 00:12.19 | Tem | I can't find the item I'm looking for because thott and alla are useless |
| 00:12.22 | Tem | and wowhead is down |
| 00:12.44 | Bleeter | yeah, wowhead seem to have been having issues in the past 12 hours, if not more |
| 00:16.12 | zenzelezz | +30 un-activated or +30 when activated? |
| 00:18.51 | cladhaire | tem: what item |
| 00:18.53 | zenzelezz | that's what he's trying to find out |
| 00:19.14 | Tem | zenz, +30 stam, +90 spelldamage when activated |
| 00:19.26 | Tem | those numbers could be wrong |
| 00:19.33 | Tem | the last time I saw the trinket was in beta |
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| 00:20.23 | zenzelezz | oh, it's not on live? |
| 00:20.37 | Tem | I don't know |
| 00:20.47 | Bleeter | sounds like that +AP thing I picked up |
| 00:20.53 | Bleeter | green honor hold trinket |
| 00:22.46 | Bleeter | hmm, nope. that's not it. |
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| 00:37.32 | Bleeter | hmm, the one I was thinking of was zangarmarsh, no +stam, and the +spell ain't that much either |
| 00:38.02 | Tem | I know which one you're thinking of |
| 00:38.10 | Tem | mark of defiance |
| 00:38.50 | Bleeter | dunno, I got the huntard 'Uniting Charm'. I seem to recall it was from a selection of trinkets, all diff named... you're prolly right ;) |
| 00:39.16 | Bleeter | when my mage past through, she was like 'pfft, junk' at the offering, though |
| 00:39.53 | Bleeter | oh, ok.. uniting charm's nagrand... nm (wand or boots were the others there) |
| 00:40.09 | Bleeter | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:40.12 | Bleeter | Bladefist's Breadth |
| 00:41.15 | Bleeter | hmm, must've been thinking of something else on my mage... 'coz that thing's blue (not to mention she ain't done that quest ;-) |
| 00:41.26 | Bleeter | " |
| 00:41.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Fridgid (n=Fridgid@24.96.171.248) |
| 00:41.35 | Bleeter | "Vengeance of the Illidari" is the caster version |
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| 00:49.09 | Mike-N-Go | Cide: Why is the CT_MailMod at http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info3866-CT_MailMod.html with TOC: 11200 |
| 00:49.14 | Mike-N-Go | +? |
| 00:49.23 | Cide | probably because it's not updated! |
| 00:49.48 | Cide | www.ctmod.net |
| 00:50.15 | Cide | I try to keep the major releases on all ui sites, but it's not really feasible with ~15 mods to maintain |
| 00:50.15 | Shirik | just change the TOC number to 30000 |
| 00:50.19 | Shirik | ^^ |
| 00:50.36 | Cide | so I usually just update the main ctmod zip |
| 00:51.18 | Mike-N-Go | You ought to put a direction to ctmod.net, for those? |
| 00:52.03 | Mike-N-Go | Saying, "Latest updates at www.ctmod.net." |
| 00:57.34 | Mike-N-Go | Well, Cide, I really like your suite, it is really nice, the bar part, mostly. |
| 00:58.04 | Cide | thanks |
| 00:58.21 | Kaso | I like the shield part mostly |
| 00:58.24 | Kaso | oh wait :< |
| 00:58.35 | Cide | ~poke Kaso |
| 00:58.47 | purl | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind Kaso, pokes Kaso repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 00:59.07 | Kaso | I'll keep bugging till i get my shieldmod! |
| 01:04.41 | zenzelezz | why do you taunt me so, GTK? x.x |
| 01:05.36 | zenzelezz | every time I try to compile it it spits some new error |
| 01:08.30 | Bleeter | I like the bit where after every major patch, I get to blame Cide for all of the worlds' woes ;) :P |
| 01:08.41 | Shirik | rofl |
| 01:08.46 | Bleeter | *world's |
| 01:08.46 | Cide | I'm getting used to it n |
| 01:08.47 | Cide | np |
| 01:09.09 | Kaydeethree | getting used to it? hasn't everyone been yelling at you for at least a year now? |
| 01:09.15 | zenzelezz | I remember when my server was having hardware trouble which caused immense lag... people got so frustrated they started blaming CTRA |
| 01:09.17 | Shirik | ha |
| 01:09.23 | Shirik | See I don't let people yell at me |
| 01:09.31 | Shirik | if they want to, they can make their own addon |
| 01:09.42 | Shirik | Really the only users I care about are my guild |
| 01:09.56 | Shirik | I try to take care of the others but... if they're going to be rude |
| 01:10.00 | Shirik | I see no reason to help them |
| 01:10.04 | zenzelezz | Bleeter: you try swimming across the ocean with all those packets, then come back and tell us it doesn't take a while |
| 01:10.45 | Bleeter | wtb: [avian carriers]x100 stacks, will pay well in either gold or primals |
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| 01:11.22 | Shirik | RFC 2549? |
| 01:11.59 | Bleeter | 1149, QoS isn't that important as I'm not getting any Q worth speaking of atm ;) |
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| 01:29.27 | Shirik | rofl, Cairenn posted this on WoWI but for those that haven't seen it, http://lolcode.com/ |
| 01:29.50 | Cairenn | Tain originally linked it in here, it was too good to not share |
| 01:29.55 | zenzelezz | lol |
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| 01:30.48 | Thunder_Child | tain has to much time on his hands |
| 01:31.22 | Shirik | I really like the KTHXBYE keyword: http://lolcode.com/keywords/kthxbye |
| 01:32.57 | zenzelezz | "IZ VAR BIGGER THAN 10 O RLY?" -> "YA RLY" "NO WAI" "KTHX"... WoW should implement this language |
| 01:41.01 | Cairenn | I've already pointed Slouken to it. ;) He laughed. :) |
| 01:41.55 | Bleeter | I liked the GIMMEH keyword |
| 01:43.09 | Bleeter | and the WTF/OMG switches |
| 01:53.34 | zenzelezz | I love how the library that was causing the problem was either not mentioned at all in the errors; or got scrolled way off the screen by all the OMG ERROR!! spam |
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| 02:04.07 | Bleeter | wobin: if you were working at your previous employer right now.. I'd be ... ;) :P |
| 02:04.57 | Bleeter | ZOMG! That threat *finally* got me a char list! |
| 02:05.57 | Bleeter | course, the world ain't loading ... and will no doubt throw me out |
| 02:09.31 | Bleeter | yup, zap bang thrown off |
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| 02:49.52 | Bleeter | heads up Aussies, getting a clean tracert now |
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| 02:58.59 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
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| 03:19.16 | Sixen | Hmph. Hello everyone, ^_^ |
| 03:21.12 | Cairenn | hi |
| 03:21.19 | Shirik | allo |
| 03:23.55 | Mikma | hey dudes and dudettes, Shirik told us a secret! |
| 03:23.59 | Shirik | ...... |
| 03:24.03 | Mikma | he has a doubleping! |
| 03:24.03 | Shirik | No I didn't |
| 03:24.04 | Shirik | they're lying |
| 03:24.20 | Shirik | Hey Iriel are you here? |
| 03:24.21 | ckknight | doubleping? |
| 03:24.37 | Iriel | Should I start running now? |
| 03:24.49 | Shirik | Can I ask for a feature in devtools? ^^; I would write it in myself and probably will, but thought I'd pass it to you |
| 03:24.59 | Iriel | Sure, asking is always free 8-) |
| 03:25.13 | Shirik | How you put the [#] in front of chat messages if you want to check where it came from... |
| 03:25.29 | Shirik | perhaps allow for a similar option to allow for a stack trace to check where it came from |
| 03:25.41 | Iriel | Hm |
| 03:25.46 | Shirik | sometimes I have debug messages coming out of places and I completely forgot where they were written in >< |
| 03:25.52 | Sixen | Iriel, that's not true |
| 03:25.57 | Iriel | That'd be pretty expensive |
| 03:25.59 | Sixen | Try telling it to a "Help hotline" type thing./ |
| 03:26.02 | Sixen | They make you pay, : |
| 03:26.03 | Sixen | :P* |
| 03:26.16 | Shirik | it would, but I imagine you could turn it off and on independently of /dtchatevent |
| 03:26.20 | Iriel | Sixen: the phone call's expensive, the question's still free 8-) |
| 03:26.28 | Sixen | Hrmph, very true. |
| 03:26.29 | Sixen | :P |
| 03:26.46 | Iriel | Shirik: Yeah, you'd pretty much have to, it'd be a different beast |
| 03:27.31 | Sixen | Heh, I had been contemplating on making an ingame TechBot. That would definitely be interesting. |
| 03:28.43 | Iriel | Shirik: I'm not sure that'd have general usefulness to the world, do you think it's really that beneficial over and above a find and grep on your AddOn code? |
| 03:28.43 | Shirik | well that's what I'm doing now :P |
| 03:28.43 | Shirik | it would just be "nice" not necessary beneficial |
| 03:28.44 | Shirik | which is why I figured I'd just pass it onto you :) I'll probably code it in myself anyway, but just a thought for the future |
| 03:28.45 | Iriel | Feel free to steal and mutilate dtchatevent |
| 03:29.00 | Shirik | I intend to ;) |
| 03:29.06 | Shirik | probably breaking it in the process |
| 03:35.02 | Shirik | pregunta: Checkboxes don't have an OnClick script? |
| 03:35.13 | Iriel | Pretty sure they do |
| 03:35.16 | Sixen | They should.. |
| 03:35.24 | Shirik | hrm, then I'm doing something very strange :/ |
| 03:35.33 | Sixen | why not just use Checkbox.checked? |
| 03:35.42 | Sixen | Or whatever the Lua code is? |
| 03:35.49 | Fin | you talking about js or lua? |
| 03:35.53 | Shirik | Lua |
| 03:35.57 | Fin | k |
| 03:36.21 | Shirik | Sixen: I need to reparse certain things when a checkbox's state changes. This is accomplished by calling an update function |
| 03:36.40 | Sixen | Oh, :( |
| 03:36.43 | Iriel | Is it your checkbox, or someone else's? |
| 03:37.04 | Shirik | depends on how you define ownership :P "both" |
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| 03:37.18 | Shirik | I made the checkbox, but it's coming from a library (next step is to find out how this library makes checkboxes) |
| 03:37.55 | Iriel | I'd hope it's a standard CheckButton |
| 03:38.05 | Shirik | I thought it was |
| 03:38.12 | Shirik | There's no real easy way to check is there? |
| 03:38.23 | Iriel | do /dump whatever:GetObjectType() |
| 03:39.59 | Shirik | "Frame" >.> |
| 03:40.03 | Shirik | ok then... |
| 03:40.14 | Shirik | I have a feeling that it's a frame with a checkbox inside of it |
| 03:40.21 | Shirik | (CheckButton) |
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| 03:40.43 | Fin | DevTools Frame Power: Go! |
| 03:41.02 | Shirik | well |
| 03:41.05 | Shirik | I can't actually see the frame >.> |
| 03:41.10 | Shirik | since I get an error trying to make it |
| 03:41.39 | Shirik | yup |
| 03:41.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 03:41.48 | Shirik | it is a frame with a checkbox inside of it |
| 03:41.56 | Shirik | worse yet, the checkbox is local so I have no way of getting to it >.> |
| 03:42.11 | Shirik | I take that back, I missed the self.check = chk |
| 03:42.13 | Shirik | ok I'm happy now :) |
| 03:42.16 | Shirik | thank you |
| 03:42.17 | Iriel | GetChildren, EnumerateFrames? |
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| 03:46.07 | Thunder_Child | heh. To Do: drink more beer -Arjuna 17:02, 25 January 2007 (EST) |
| 03:46.22 | Thunder_Child | on a wowace mod |
| 03:46.27 | Shirik | lol |
| 03:46.37 | Shirik | that's almost as bad as Cidan's SVN commit messages |
| 03:47.48 | Thunder_Child | why oh why is itemsync not on the svn |
| 03:48.34 | Thunder_Child | oh wait...yes it is, nvm |
| 03:48.43 | Thunder_Child | <-- tard |
| 03:48.49 | Shirik | no, tardmrr = tard |
| 03:48.52 | Shirik | you = TC |
| 03:49.00 | Tem | huh? |
| 03:49.08 | Shirik | hi Tem :) |
| 03:49.16 | Shirik | he was claiming to be you |
| 03:49.19 | Shirik | I corrected him |
| 03:49.37 | Shirik | he can't fool me! |
| 03:49.38 | Thunder_Child | TC = Tard Creations |
| 03:49.44 | Shirik | o.o |
| 03:49.55 | Shirik | I see an intense copyright battle coming! |
| 03:50.32 | Thunder_Child | i dont think you can copyright tard....but it wouldnt surprise me if you could |
| 03:52.25 | Fin | I think tards are allowed to try |
| 03:53.27 | Thunder_Child | Name: SRA Description: Sexually offensive addon that eats coconuts for breakfast. |
| 03:54.02 | Thunder_Child | and the changelog is all about diff acronyms |
| 03:54.08 | Thunder_Child | SRA: Simply Redundant Adjustments |
| 03:54.12 | Thunder_Child | SRA: Slapped Red Ass |
| 03:54.16 | Thunder_Child | SRA: Some Ready Are |
| 03:54.17 | Thunder_Child | etc. |
| 03:57.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge __Aella (n=Aella@74.221.43.140) |
| 04:01.51 | Shirik | purl, ping |
| 04:02.03 | purl | pong |
| 04:02.08 | Shirik | I hate my ISP >.> |
| 04:02.20 | Thunder_Child | i'm sure it hates you to |
| 04:04.04 | Iriel | Hm, what's the fastest way for horde to get to south west duskwood? Grom'gol? or swamp of sorrows? |
| 04:04.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik|Ghost (n=nospam@mckay32-75.resnet.db.erau.edu) |
| 04:05.05 | Shirik|Ghost | 00:05:07 ‹Shirik› I go from Grom'gol |
| 04:05.07 | Shirik|Ghost | 00:05:30 * Disconnected |
| 04:05.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge tedrock (n=tedrock@d235-159-230.home1.cgocable.net) |
| 04:05.29 | Aella | Less level 55 mobs from Grom'gol. |
| 04:05.52 | Iriel | thanks |
| 04:05.59 | Iriel | At L35 either is a sucky journey |
| 04:06.01 | Aella | Otherwise they're probably about the same, but if flying from the north it'll likely use less time to fly to Stonard. |
| 04:07.10 | Mr_Rabies2 | wtb a couple fun instances at the 45-55 range :x |
| 04:07.45 | Shirik | ST |
| 04:08.28 | Aella | WTB a BRD group. |
| 04:08.31 | Iriel | I unfortunately dont have an unbroken flight path from the north down there |
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| 04:11.11 | Thunder_Child | wobin: ping |
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| 04:59.44 | Cairenn | oi! the things you find out about long after the fact: http://vg-en.curse-gaming.com/database/items/1/sort-by/-level/name/?q=caire&level_min=&level_max=&race=&class=&s=&st=1&sv=0 |
| 05:00.05 | Thunder_Child | heh |
| 05:00.06 | Sixen | Didn't the MVPs used to have Light blue Text on the WoW Forums? |
| 05:00.12 | Thunder_Child | you have your own items |
| 05:00.23 | Iriel | Sixen: yes |
| 05:00.34 | Cairenn | Sixen: yes, but it was impossible to read, they changed it to neon green instead |
| 05:00.37 | Sixen | Were you around for that Iriel? :P |
| 05:00.48 | Sixen | Yeah, the Battle.net MVPs still have the Light-blue text, =[. |
| 05:00.50 | Iriel | briefly |
| 05:00.58 | Cairenn | Thunder_Child: heh, yeah, seems my friend that works there managed to sneak that in without ever telling me |
| 05:01.16 | Thunder_Child | thats what you get for having friends in low places :) |
| 05:01.23 | Cairenn | hehehehe |
| 05:03.52 | *** part/#wowi-lounge trik (i=trik@ppp-69-148-65-14.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 05:04.31 | Sixen | They need to give the Bnet MVPs red text to match the Chaos Orc icon... Meh./ |
| 05:04.39 | Sixen | Gfrazier is lazy as hell, :(> |
| 05:07.42 | Mr_Rabies2 | i thought gfrazier got fired for leaking insider info :O |
| 05:07.46 | Mr_Rabies2 | i must have heard wrong |
| 05:07.51 | Sixen | Naw. |
| 05:08.06 | Sixen | He just doesn't goi by GFrazier anymore, he's pretty well known under his other name as well. |
| 05:08.11 | Sixen | Actually, h'e's very well known :P |
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| 05:09.48 | Mr_Rabies2 | i dunno, i haven't gone to bnet forums since i quit diablo 2 :P |
| 05:12.36 | Thunder_Child | anyone know if XPStatus was ported to FuBar? |
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| 05:19.53 | Shadowed | hrm |
| 05:19.57 | Shadowed | Tekkub needs to be in here |
| 05:20.18 | Cairenn | yes, yes he does |
| 05:20.32 | Cairenn | he tends to ignore me on that point though :p |
| 05:20.49 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/Tekkub) |
| 05:20.53 | Tekkub | yes melord? |
| 05:20.58 | Shirik | kickban! |
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| 05:21.20 | JunkHead-Work | Hello. |
| 05:21.24 | Shirik | no. |
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| 05:22.39 | Tekkub | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:22.48 | Wobwork | /woof |
| 05:22.54 | Shirik | /rawr ? |
| 05:23.18 | Wobwork | >< |
| 05:23.19 | Wobwork | Up to 7000 ADSL customers in New South Wales on BroadBand1 connections may be disconnected from and be unable to reconnect to the Internet for up to 30 minutes during the maintenance window. |
| 05:23.27 | Wobwork | yay =P |
| 05:23.30 | Tekkub | anything else? |
| 05:23.54 | Shirik | time to study and sleep |
| 05:23.56 | Shirik | have fun guys |
| 05:24.07 | Cairenn | later Shirik|AFK |
| 05:25.36 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/Tekkub) |
| 05:28.24 | Thunder_Child | hmm..seems tek doesn't like it in here |
| 05:29.02 | Cairenn | nope, not really |
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| 05:44.35 | Shadowed | Any easy way to check all of the functions inside of a button? |
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| 05:50.32 | ckknight | Shadowed: for k,v in pairs(getmetatable(button).__index) do print(k,v) end |
| 05:51.23 | Shadowed | thanks |
| 05:59.38 | Sixen | Hrmph, i'm going to head to bed. |
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| 07:50.39 | ckknight | anyone have the GlobalStrings for frFR? |
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| 07:56.40 | Bleeter | hmm, two hours to patch. anyone know what they're fixing? |
| 07:56.55 | Mikk | error #132 |
| 07:57.01 | Mikk | clientside, anyway |
| 07:57.07 | Shadowed | which is error #132 |
| 07:57.10 | Shadowed | is that the AGP aperture one? |
| 07:57.16 | Mikk | crashes on login/logout/alt-tab etxc |
| 07:57.23 | Bleeter | I thought every error was #132 lol |
| 07:57.25 | Shadowed | only took like a year to fix that =p |
| 07:57.31 | Mikk | hrm? |
| 07:57.40 | Mikk | this is something new that appeared in 2.1 |
| 07:57.43 | Shadowed | nope |
| 07:57.46 | Mikk | suddenly everyone and his momma is crashing |
| 07:57.50 | Mikk | all the time |
| 07:57.56 | Shadowed | AGP aperture error happened for a long time, it just took a lot more ALT + Tabbing to cause it |
| 07:58.02 | Bleeter | ah, the glitchy graphics, particularly at range (LoD disable 'fixed' it) |
| 07:58.11 | Shadowed | I'd usually crash once or twice after a day of developing |
| 07:58.47 | Mikk | I'm not saying you're wrong. But I have guildies that crash 4 out of 5 times on login after 2.1 |
| 07:58.49 | Mikk | Where they didn't before |
| 07:58.50 | Bleeter | it'd be sweet if this patch fixes wine ;) |
| 07:58.53 | Mikk | So _something_ changed =P |
| 08:03.26 | VoiDRaider | Finally they are fixing it, it's so annoying :| |
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| 08:04.32 | VoiDRaider | Though I only experienced this bug on the recent PTR |
| 08:05.46 | Bleeter | VoiDRaider: yeah, I'm suspecting they changed something in the render engine, witness the LoD glitches, and at a guess the problem cascaded through to cause more #132s |
| 08:06.09 | VoiDRaider | Yeah |
| 08:06.31 | Bleeter | I seem to recall something on the PTR about the LoD, along the lines 'we spotted that, but to implement would delay 2.1 live, so addressed in a patch after' |
| 08:06.49 | Bleeter | tho, it may not have been LoD that the blue was referencing, my memory's a little ahzy on that one |
| 08:07.30 | Bleeter | and, would explain why someone said slouken's talking about 2.1.2, not mentioning .1.1 |
| 08:08.04 | VoiDRaider | Haha :P |
| 08:08.10 | Iriel | All manner of wierdness seems to have accompanied 2.1's rendering changes |
| 08:09.20 | Bleeter | Iriel: my guess, would be that 2.0.x 'eventuated' from a fork at around 1.9 to BC, plus 1.9 continuing thru to 1.12, and a remerge. 2.1 being a 'result' on core engine update, that they didn't really want to mess with for BC release. |
| 08:09.42 | Bleeter | hrm, not really clear there what I mean, but I'm about to go into combat :P |
| 08:10.22 | Iriel | It's just as likely that 2.1 represents a bunch of post 2.0 optimization that conflicts with some drivers |
| 08:10.32 | Bleeter | indeed |
| 08:10.37 | Iriel | And now I must sleep |
| 08:10.47 | Iriel | It's LONG past my bed time, but the pattern for robes of arcana is now mine |
| 08:10.50 | Iriel | so I shall sleep well |
| 08:10.56 | Bleeter | lol |
| 08:10.57 | Bleeter | gnight mate |
| 08:11.03 | VoiDRaider | Night mate :) |
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| 08:34.51 | foxlit | "Completed: 1.54 MB of 1.79 MB. Downloaded: 24.4 MB" |
| 08:34.55 | foxlit | Conspiracy! |
| 08:42.40 | Bleeter | foxlit: the patch? sounds early |
| 08:43.23 | foxlit | They upped the build on european servers |
| 08:43.34 | foxlit | WoW-2.1.0.6692-to-2.1.0.6729-enGB |
| 08:43.44 | Bleeter | hmm, interesting |
| 08:44.02 | foxlit | Patchnotes say "fixed crash" |
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| 08:55.24 | Bleeter | nothing US side yet |
| 08:58.07 | foxlit | % turns out to be faster than math.fmod by a factor of 10 :/ |
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| 09:07.04 | ckknight | foxlit: mostly cause the function isn't run, you're not doing a global lookup, and not doing a table lookup |
| 09:07.22 | Luminax | woo hoo fun |
| 09:07.33 | Luminax | running WoW in windowed mode caused the whole PC to slow down |
| 09:07.46 | Luminax | but running WoW in full screen might crash WoW on alt-tab |
| 09:08.19 | haste | reroll linux! then you can play in fullscreen and alt-tab / change desktop pretty much instant |
| 09:08.42 | Luminax | >_> |
| 09:08.49 | Bleeter | 'cept you can't quit without losing your cache :P |
| 09:09.00 | Luminax | is there a WoW port to Linux already ? if so, then it shall be done ! |
| 09:09.04 | haste | that's under Cedega only |
| 09:09.13 | Bleeter | I was getting a no-cache in wine |
| 09:09.13 | haste | WoW runs just fine under wine |
| 09:09.16 | Luminax | which doesn't appear to be so ! |
| 09:09.25 | Luminax | beh cedega's good... but still |
| 09:09.34 | Luminax | it's not a solution |
| 09:09.35 | haste | my solution to the problem Bleeter, is to never close the client |
| 09:10.15 | Bleeter | there'll never be a pure linux version, I reckon. much 'easier' to support, even if unofficially, a 'commercial' wine, thus liability etc. etc. and get multiple platform support that way |
| 09:10.22 | Bleeter | eg, Linux, Solaris, *BSD |
| 09:11.06 | Luminax | they could just make a 'core' version and let the many distro worry about themselves |
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| 09:12.25 | Bleeter | nah, check out the headaches VMWare have to go through |
| 09:12.41 | Bleeter | eg, ship an entire GTK with itself, in case the distro doesn't support it. |
| 09:13.09 | Luminax | that would be good |
| 09:13.11 | Bleeter | one would need to 'ship' an X server, and closed source drivers. |
| 09:13.24 | Luminax | gah |
| 09:13.36 | Luminax | I want to load WoW to go back to full screen mode config |
| 09:13.38 | Bleeter | if you're going that far, may as well ship an entire distro and then virtualisation |
| 09:13.56 | Luminax | and then I realized I forgot at which point I've saved my addon so it might get error :( |
| 09:14.00 | Luminax | oh well... *unloads* |
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| 10:33.33 | Bleeter | hmm, I'm starting to suspect that hunter pets are gettings hit by lsing happiness each time the hunter mounts up (aka, spell: dismiss pet) |
| 10:33.38 | Bleeter | *losing |
| 10:34.20 | Bleeter | or maybe I'm just mistreating Zathras in some other way :/ |
| 10:38.08 | Bleeter | no US client side patch yet, either |
| 10:38.08 | foxlit | Illegal, that |
| 10:38.15 | foxlit | Bah |
| 10:38.17 | foxlit | fu, scrolling. |
| 10:38.18 | Bleeter | wot?! |
| 10:38.23 | Bleeter | :P |
| 10:38.46 | foxlit | EU is unstable at the moment |
| 10:39.30 | Bleeter | hmm, well, I guess to some degree, test it out on eu realms, they wouldn't be in high load atm |
| 10:39.52 | foxlit | um? :) |
| 10:40.11 | Bleeter | whereas the US realms, having Oceania attached, would.. well, the aussies would prolly go into meltdown if they screwed a patch during peak times the night after maint ;) |
| 10:40.39 | Bleeter | particularly after this morning, although that wasn't blizz's fault, where Singtel were trying to route via .tw |
| 10:41.00 | Bleeter | causing most Oceania players to fail |
| 10:41.56 | wobin | Who plays Wow in the morning anyway? =P |
| 10:41.58 | Bleeter | at least blizz support pages weren't swamped with 'zomg i can't connect to your page fix it now!' ;) |
| 10:43.18 | Bleeter | anyways, food time |
| 10:43.21 | wobin | clad|sleep: 2007/05/30 20:41:47-2536-x1]: Clique\Clique.lua:391: attempt to concatenate local 'type' (a nil value) |
| 10:43.21 | wobin | <in C code>: ? |
| 10:43.21 | wobin | AceEvent-2.0-37328 (Ace2):251: in function `TriggerEvent' |
| 10:43.21 | wobin | AceEvent-2.0-37328 (Ace2):1019: in function <Interface\AddOns\Ace2\AceEvent-2.0\AceEvent-2.0.lua:1012> |
| 10:43.23 | wobin | =( |
| 10:43.27 | wobin | come back Clique |
| 10:43.30 | wobin | All is forgiven =( |
| 10:43.41 | clad|sleep | wobin: remove your SV |
| 10:43.47 | clad|sleep | err wait |
| 10:43.48 | clad|sleep | WHY |
| 10:43.50 | clad|sleep | is ace |
| 10:43.52 | Bleeter | clad: go back to sleep :P |
| 10:43.56 | clad|sleep | triggering a blizzard event? |
| 10:43.56 | wobin | Actually I just saw that |
| 10:43.59 | clad|sleep | thats a bad thing |
| 10:43.59 | JunkHead-Work | [05:44:31] <wobin> Who plays Wow in the morning anyway? =P <-- I do. |
| 10:43.59 | wobin | I have no idea |
| 10:44.37 | wobin | My precious macros =( |
| 10:45.54 | wobin | My precious heirloom macros =( |
| 10:46.17 | clad|sleep | wobin: if you reset your SV |
| 10:46.19 | clad|sleep | you'll be fine |
| 10:46.25 | clad|sleep | i haven't had much time to work out whats happening. |
| 10:46.31 | wobin | Okies =) |
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| 10:52.21 | clad|sleep | anyone ese? |
| 10:52.41 | [dRaCo] | europe is completely broken atm |
| 10:52.43 | foxlit | clad, EU is basically unstable at the moment |
| 10:52.49 | clad|sleep | oh |
| 10:52.50 | clad|sleep | patch |
| 10:52.50 | clad|sleep | wtf |
| 10:53.04 | foxlit | Fixed client crash issue |
| 10:53.07 | clad|sleep | 2.1.0.6729 |
| 10:53.09 | foxlit | Servers are dying left and right, though |
| 10:58.50 | foxlit | "This realm is shutting down immediately for emergency maintenance. We apologize for this inconvenience and thank you for your patience and understanding. For more information, please visit our Realm Status forum" |
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| 12:04.15 | Bleeter | US patch applied here, intogame with no handshaking hangs |
| 12:07.41 | Industrial | GB patch applied here |
| 12:07.53 | Industrial | all realms instable and taken down til 3:30PM |
| 12:08.00 | Industrial | 1.5h to go :< |
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| 12:15.47 | Shirik | I hate my professor |
| 12:17.21 | Shirik | trying to study for this test, looking at this question he gave us on a sample test.... I've spent 30 minutes trying to find the answer, only to find out he gave us a bunch of BS information. The answer's given in the question >.> |
| 12:17.22 | Legorol | morning |
| 12:17.24 | Shirik | morning |
| 12:17.24 | Legorol | there appears to be a client-side patch in EU |
| 12:17.24 | clad|sleep | =/ |
| 12:17.25 | clad|sleep | morning |
| 12:17.25 | Legorol | did the US folks get one too? |
| 12:17.25 | clad|sleep | Legorol: in the us as well |
| 12:17.29 | Legorol | no version number change though, only build number |
| 12:17.42 | Legorol | currently trying to figure out what's in it, but if someone has a link, that'd be very helpful |
| 12:17.51 | cladhaire | fixed a client side crash |
| 12:17.52 | cladhaire | that's it |
| 12:18.12 | Legorol | bah, no posts on EU forum, typical.. |
| 12:18.18 | Legorol | they do a client side patch, and they don't even post about it |
| 12:18.46 | Legorol | not to mention realms are in maintenance overtime, for at least 5 hours |
| 12:19.02 | [Ammo] | they were crashing like mad |
| 12:19.09 | [Ammo] | the realms that is |
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| 12:19.31 | Legorol | i carved out a bit of time during lunchbreak to play *sigh* |
| 12:19.49 | zenzelezz | Legorol: our realm isn't back yet? |
| 12:19.53 | wobin | oh wait, there's no dozy |
| 12:20.23 | Legorol | zenzelezz: well the first hurdle for me is getting the patch |
| 12:20.27 | Legorol | then i'll take it from there |
| 12:20.34 | Legorol | as usual, the Blizzard EU team screwed up the patch |
| 12:20.49 | Bleeter | fwiw, US was crashy and problematic this morn |
| 12:20.52 | Legorol | if you don't use p2p, it gets 512 Kb, then gets stuck |
| 12:20.59 | Bleeter | well, a couple of the battlegroups, some seemed ok |
| 12:21.03 | Legorol | Bleeter: i don't feel better seeing others misery |
| 12:21.12 | Legorol | so i don't really care if the US is working or not ;-) |
| 12:21.14 | Bleeter | from what I could make out of the forums when I could reach them |
| 12:21.16 | Legorol | i'd be happy for you if it did |
| 12:21.22 | Bleeter | using avian carriers via Taiwan |
| 12:21.26 | Legorol | lol |
| 12:22.30 | Legorol | for those of you that don't know what that is: |
| 12:22.44 | zenzelezz | "Due to realm instabilities we've taken down all realms for investigations. We currently estimate that the realms will be available again at approximately 15:30 CEST" |
| 12:22.48 | Legorol | the way to download patches in the EU, if oyu don't have p2p enabled, is to start the downloader, let it get 512 Kb, then cancel it |
| 12:23.01 | Legorol | then start again, it fetches another 512 Kb, then you cancel it again |
| 12:23.05 | Legorol | repeat ad nauseum |
| 12:23.12 | zenzelezz | haha, I do that sometimes |
| 12:23.31 | Legorol | thank god this patch is only 1.79 Mb |
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| 12:24.50 | zenzelezz | didn't take too long to get the patch |
| 12:24.58 | zenzelezz | massive patch notes |
| 12:25.03 | zenzelezz | * Fixed a crash in the client. |
| 12:25.08 | Legorol | yeah |
| 12:25.21 | Legorol | but, why am i now stuck on the Launcher, with it saying: "preparing to download patch.." |
| 12:25.34 | zenzelezz | heh, I was thinking the same |
| 12:25.46 | Legorol | ok, i guess no play for me |
| 12:25.57 | zenzelezz | didn't you see what I said a few lines up? |
| 12:26.09 | zenzelezz | servers down until 15:30 estimated |
| 12:26.49 | Mikk | Legorol: Hit the Play button |
| 12:27.00 | Mikk | That message is just left there from when it fired up the downloader |
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| 12:32.29 | Legorol | zenzelezz: whenever blizzard says "estimated", i have come to understand that as "at least" |
| 12:32.47 | Legorol | wohoo, a grand total of 8 realms up |
| 12:32.53 | Legorol | i bet they are crowded like hell |
| 12:33.06 | Legorol | hey, i even happen to have chars on two of them! |
| 12:33.11 | zenzelezz | really? My MMO experience has taught me that estimated more often means "don't expect it until" |
| 12:33.21 | zenzelezz | at least with US-Arthas when I started |
| 12:33.22 | Shirik | Legorol: More like "Come back two hours after" |
| 12:33.35 | Legorol | zenzelezz: same thing |
| 12:33.42 | Legorol | "at least" and "don't expect it until" is the same imo |
| 12:34.05 | Legorol | anyhoo, any EU guys fancy creating a random duo on one of the 8 realms up? |
| 12:34.08 | Luminax | zen : my meaning of 'estimated' from MMO experience usually entails "it won't come, if it will come, it shall be veeery delayed, and when it comes, it's not all what you expect it to be" |
| 12:34.24 | Shirik | lol |
| 12:34.24 | zenzelezz | not the way I read it; "at least" sounds like "no later than", while "don't expect it until" sounds like "at the earliest" - but that may just be how I read it |
| 12:34.35 | Luminax | hi Shirrak |
| 12:34.36 | Luminax | I mean Shirik... |
| 12:34.49 | Shirik | hi |
| 12:34.56 | Luminax | ...right |
| 12:34.57 | Shirik|AFK | bye :P |
| 12:35.02 | Luminax | go afk as soon as I wave at you |
| 12:35.08 | Shirik|AFK | :( |
| 12:35.11 | Shirik|AFK | need to take shower |
| 12:35.12 | Luminax | go ahead, I'm not feeling hurt at all |
| 12:35.14 | Luminax | /wrist |
| 12:35.15 | Shirik|AFK | you're welcome to come if you want |
| 12:35.19 | Luminax | no ;P |
| 12:35.23 | Shirik|AFK | ^^ |
| 12:35.51 | Luminax | anyhooo... back to fixing (and breaking) my addon |
| 12:36.43 | Luminax | hmmm... anyone know of a function to get date/time current server/realm and if anything at all trigger when the clock struck 00:00 ? |
| 12:37.01 | Luminax | *of current server/realm |
| 12:37.12 | zenzelezz | don't believe you get any notification about midnight |
| 12:37.44 | zenzelezz | out of curiosity, what do you want that for? |
| 12:37.45 | Luminax | soo... how does the game keep track of time/date for.... say... instance reset or daily quest ? |
| 12:38.02 | Luminax | just trying to save the progress of certain things by a per-day basis |
| 12:38.06 | zenzelezz | probably asks the server or something |
| 12:38.20 | zenzelezz | maybe gets a unix timestamp or similar |
| 12:38.37 | Luminax | mmm |
| 12:38.45 | Luminax | can't believe you don't get any event notification at all... |
| 12:38.55 | Luminax | how does the client get notified of instance reset then ? |
| 12:39.05 | zenzelezz | don't trust what I say too much, I'm just guessing |
| 12:39.13 | Luminax | feh ;P |
| 12:42.21 | Legorol | Luminax: instance and daily quest resets come as internal messages, then gets presented to the UI as system chat messages |
| 12:42.32 | Luminax | h-umm |
| 12:42.33 | Legorol | the UI has no knowledge that it has happened |
| 12:42.43 | Luminax | so there's no way to really track days eh ? |
| 12:42.45 | Legorol | btw, daily quests don't reset at midnight |
| 12:42.51 | Luminax | nope |
| 12:42.54 | Legorol | they reset around 3am in the morning |
| 12:42.57 | Luminax | last time it happened it resets at.... 3 am |
| 12:43.08 | Legorol | same as honor rollover i think |
| 12:43.17 | Luminax | mkay |
| 12:43.30 | zenzelezz | as for how the client knows when instances get reset, the server has to keep track of who is saved where, so it could easily send the client a notification when it did a reset |
| 12:43.38 | Luminax | so no way, at all, to check days/date/time as an event trigger ? probably there's some way to GetDate or something, right ? |
| 12:44.20 | zenzelezz | you could probably check it in an OnUpdate ;-p But better off not doing it at all I guess |
| 12:44.43 | nevcairiel | you can get the client date using the builtin time function, but you cannot get the server date |
| 12:45.12 | Luminax | well ...does client date get affected by what GMT you're on ? |
| 12:45.48 | nevcairiel | its basicly unix date syntax, i think you can specify if you want local time or GMT |
| 12:46.16 | Mikk | isn't that local system time ... |
| 12:46.17 | zenzelezz | I believe client date is whatever you set your computer's date/time to |
| 12:46.29 | Shirik|AFK | (08:36:46) (zenzelezz) don't believe you get any notification about midnight |
| 12:46.33 | Shirik|AFK | you can get the server time |
| 12:46.42 | Shirik|AFK | you would have to do it something like OnUpdate |
| 12:46.43 | zenzelezz | Shirik|AFK: but does it send an event? |
| 12:46.44 | Legorol | yes you can get the server time, the UI does display it if you mouse over the icon |
| 12:46.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge sioraiocht (n=rtharper@cpe-74-71-116-245.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 12:46.47 | Shirik|AFK | nah |
| 12:46.50 | Legorol | however, it only has minute accuracy |
| 12:47.01 | Mikk | unless you pull for minute changes ofc |
| 12:47.03 | Legorol | andy ou need to explicitly query it |
| 12:47.20 | Shirik|AFK | you should only need it once |
| 12:47.21 | Legorol | Mikk: i guess then you can get around half a minute accuracy (considering latency) |
| 12:47.21 | Shirik|AFK | at login |
| 12:47.40 | Mikk | Legorol: http://www.wowwiki.com/GameTime:Get |
| 12:47.46 | Shirik|AFK | from there you can calculate the time until server midnight |
| 12:47.55 | Mikk | Half minute accuracy? Err, no. Try tenths of seconds. |
| 12:47.56 | Luminax | true |
| 12:48.17 | cladhaire | again |
| 12:48.24 | Luminax | heya clad |
| 12:48.28 | cladhaire | hi |
| 12:48.31 | Legorol | Mikk: i don't see anything in the code to account for latency |
| 12:48.34 | Legorol | did i miss something? |
| 12:48.42 | Mikk | no, you're absolutely right about that |
| 12:48.47 | Shirik|AFK | cladhaire: Why >< |
| 12:48.56 | cladhaire | Shirik|AFK: because, its the only way to know what day it is |
| 12:48.59 | cladhaire | for sync reasons. |
| 12:49.05 | Shirik|AFK | why do you say that? |
| 12:49.08 | cladhaire | other than keeping a list of GMT offsets for every single server in the world. |
| 12:49.10 | Shirik|AFK | You can get the local date |
| 12:49.10 | cladhaire | because its true. |
| 12:49.11 | cladhaire | ... |
| 12:49.13 | cladhaire | yrds |
| 12:49.14 | cladhaire | yes |
| 12:49.16 | cladhaire | which can be faked |
| 12:49.18 | cladhaire | and not be accurate |
| 12:49.19 | Shirik|AFK | And you can calculate the |
| 12:49.20 | Shirik|AFK | ok |
| 12:49.36 | Mikk | I really hate that you can't get server time |
| 12:49.40 | Mikk | I really really hate it |
| 12:49.44 | Mikk | Server date I mean |
| 12:49.45 | cladhaire | you can get server time |
| 12:49.46 | cladhaire | lol |
| 12:50.00 | Legorol | cladhaire: GMT offsets are easy, -8/-7 for US, +1/+2 for EU, and... oh wait,t hat's not easy is it :D |
| 12:50.04 | cladhaire | nope |
| 12:50.06 | cladhaire | not in the least =) |
| 12:50.12 | Legorol | hehe teasing |
| 12:50.18 | Luminax | and there's also that whole "DST" thingies |
| 12:50.28 | Legorol | hence the -8/-7 bit |
| 12:50.29 | Legorol | etc. |
| 12:50.33 | Mikk | Every time I think about in-game sync, I run headfirst into date unreliability |
| 12:50.34 | Luminax | ...kinda makes me wonder why must people complicate an easy thing.... |
| 12:50.36 | cladhaire | makes true db syncing rather nasty |
| 12:51.00 | nevcairiel | server time should just report back the unix timestamp |
| 12:51.03 | Mikk | The best I've come up with is basing event ids off of playername+playtime tuples |
| 12:51.10 | nevcairiel | thats one damn integer it needs to transmit |
| 12:51.15 | nevcairiel | i bet the client even knows that |
| 12:51.28 | Legorol | nevcairiel: it's not so simple |
| 12:51.33 | cladhaire | tbhe client doesn't know it. |
| 12:51.42 | cladhaire | slouken would have to add comm |
| 12:51.43 | nevcairiel | the client can get server time |
| 12:51.43 | Legorol | in many cases the server can't even transmit an extra bit, let alone an extra integer |
| 12:51.45 | Mikk | Since playtime tuples are more or less guaranteed to increase and never decrease |
| 12:51.56 | Luminax | client doesn't need it, thus client doesn't know |
| 12:52.05 | Luminax | is the logic that seems to be followed |
| 12:52.11 | Legorol | and i beleive that's correct |
| 12:52.17 | Legorol | the least the client needs to know, the better |
| 12:52.28 | nevcairiel | the client knows the time, somehow that time is transmited, i dont think it would be too hard to increase that time transmission to be a full timestamp |
| 12:52.29 | Luminax | oh that reminds me |
| 12:52.35 | Legorol | in the case of date it creates us nightmares, but think about it how nice it would've been if they did that with object locations for example |
| 12:52.55 | Luminax | movement speed and such and such that used to be client only are now server-locked, yes ? |
| 12:52.56 | Legorol | nevcairiel: yes it would be, they'd have to redefine the server->client protocol potentially |
| 12:52.58 | Shirik|AFK | we know the "time" which is a range of values 60 * 24 |
| 12:53.03 | Legorol | what if it doesn't have the space for it in the current implementation? |
| 12:53.20 | Legorol | let's say server->client info packets have X bytes at the moment, and time messages already use it all |
| 12:53.35 | Legorol | then what? make packets bigger? nightmare. add code for concatenating packets? nightmare |
| 12:53.43 | Shirik|AFK | Legorol: If this is true |
| 12:53.43 | Mikk | o.O |
| 12:53.45 | Legorol | i am just giving some examples of why it could be more difficult than you think |
| 12:53.51 | Shirik|AFK | Blizzard needs to rethink what they're doing anyway |
| 12:53.58 | Shirik|AFK | Any good engineer will always leave space for improvements in the future |
| 12:53.58 | nevcairiel | it could just request the time when i call the function |
| 12:53.58 | cladhaire | dot dor dot |
| 12:54.00 | Luminax | well... if the packets that the server is sending for said time messages have some little leeway |
| 12:54.01 | nevcairiel | or whatdoiknow |
| 12:54.02 | Shirik|AFK | But... |
| 12:54.05 | Legorol | I think Blizzard doesn't think that it needs to rethink |
| 12:54.05 | cladhaire | Shirik|AFK: ... |
| 12:54.06 | Luminax | they can probably introduce packet compression |
| 12:54.07 | Shirik|AFK | it's true that they may not /want/ to do that |
| 12:54.09 | Luminax | .......another nightmare |
| 12:54.15 | cladhaire | Did you PLAY this game when it first came out? |
| 12:54.21 | Shirik|AFK | because it's quite true even one bit is a huge amount when you actually add it all up |
| 12:54.26 | cladhaire | if you did, you'd have an idea exactly how much of those "Extra bits" they've already used. |
| 12:54.35 | Shirik|AFK | cladhaire: I am fully aware of that |
| 12:54.48 | cladhaire | Shirik|AFK: but clearly you know better then everyone =) |
| 12:54.51 | Legorol | the bottom line is: without actual technical details, we dont' know anything |
| 12:54.54 | nevcairiel | if they are half-intelligent they redefined the protocol with 2.0 with new extra bits :P |
| 12:54.58 | Shirik|AFK | On the same note, Motorola has used the same microcontroller family for about 15 years now |
| 12:54.59 | Luminax | there's that Legorol |
| 12:55.03 | Shirik|AFK | they STILL have tons of space to work with |
| 12:55.08 | Luminax | 68xxx ? |
| 12:55.08 | Shirik|AFK | 5* |
| 12:55.16 | Shirik|AFK | 68000 is not a microcontroller |
| 12:55.21 | Luminax | oh wait |
| 12:55.23 | Luminax | that's a uP ;P |
| 12:55.38 | Luminax | pardon me *retreats into a corner and bangs head against the wall* |
| 12:56.04 | cladhaire | Shirik|AFK: That's a really pompous thing to say, and its really easy for you to say |
| 12:56.11 | cladhaire | and I wholeheartedly disagree with the sentiment. |
| 12:56.12 | Shirik|AFK | oh I know |
| 12:56.27 | Shirik|AFK | but rethink where you're coming from |
| 12:56.40 | Shirik|AFK | Not writing something that can be easily expanded? Even if it's been two years? |
| 12:56.41 | Legorol | bear in mind that WoW was originally designed to work over a modem |
| 12:56.45 | Shirik|AFK | Not even being able to add one bit? |
| 12:56.49 | Legorol | packet sizes are probably designed to be extremely small |
| 12:56.50 | cladhaire | I'm coming from 0 knowledge |
| 12:56.52 | Shirik|AFK | I can understand why they wouldn't /want/ to |
| 12:56.52 | Luminax | Legorol : heh |
| 12:56.56 | cladhaire | you seem to think you know more about the client/server implementatino than ayone |
| 12:57.01 | cladhaire | about what is possible and what itsn't. |
| 12:57.02 | Shirik|AFK | but not being /able/ to I can't |
| 12:57.05 | Mikk | On the SPECIFIC issue of transmitting server date to the client on connect... there's no bloody way it can be that hard. There just isn't. There's a way to do it. Of course they don't do work if they don't know it's necessary, that's plain stupid.. But I think it'd be good to put some pressure on em to do it :> |
| 12:57.07 | cladhaire | without an engine overhaul. |
| 12:57.20 | Shirik|AFK | you know what, I really don't have time for this. Obviously I don't know anything about the implementation |
| 12:57.27 | Luminax | Legorol : which explains why they put movement check at client-side instead of at server-side from the start |
| 12:57.29 | cladhaire | well neither do I |
| 12:57.31 | cladhaire | you say its easy |
| 12:57.32 | Shirik|AFK | But you can't say to me that it would not be possible to make such a change |
| 12:57.33 | Luminax | most likely to conserve packet throughput |
| 12:57.35 | cladhaire | I say I don't know that its easy |
| 12:57.39 | krka | ooh... i missed all the drama |
| 12:57.39 | Shirik|AFK | It doesn't make any sense at all |
| 12:57.44 | Legorol | Shirik|AFK: noone is saying it's not possible |
| 12:57.45 | cladhaire | Shirik|AFK: I didn't say it wasn't possible. |
| 12:57.46 | cladhaire | never one. |
| 12:57.51 | Legorol | all we are saying is we don't know how HARD it woudl be |
| 12:57.53 | Shirik|AFK | you said it wasn't possible with a major rewrite |
| 12:57.54 | Legorol | because we don't have the details |
| 12:57.58 | Legorol | you made it sound like it's easy |
| 12:58.02 | cladhaire | Shirik|AFK: But I also didn't make broad claims that blizzard needs to rethink the way they make a game that has 8 million subscribers. |
| 12:58.09 | Legorol | Mikk: yes i can think of a bunch of ways of doing it |
| 12:58.14 | Legorol | e.g. sending it in a system chat message |
| 12:58.16 | Shirik|AFK | And I never said this either |
| 12:58.24 | Mikk | Legorol: the thought did strike me yes :-P |
| 12:58.31 | Shirik|AFK | What I did say is that if they didn't leave room to make it modifiable, then they do need to rethink this |
| 12:58.41 | Shirik|AFK | But, I never said that they didn't make it modifiable, and I don't think that they didn't |
| 12:58.48 | cladhaire | and i quote |
| 12:58.49 | cladhaire | Shirik|AFK: Blizzard needs to rethink what they're doing anyway |
| 12:58.49 | Legorol | what if they did? |
| 12:58.51 | cladhaire | not to be a dick. |
| 12:58.54 | Shirik|AFK | yeah, read one line up |
| 12:59.03 | cladhaire | I did |
| 12:59.06 | Legorol | Shirik|AFK: what if they really didn't leave room |
| 12:59.06 | Shirik|AFK | (08:53:17) (Shirik|AFK) Legorol: If this is true |
| 12:59.11 | Shirik|AFK | ? |
| 12:59.15 | cladhaire | Yes I know. |
| 12:59.15 | Legorol | that doesn't necessarily imply they have to rethink it now |
| 12:59.31 | nevcairiel | imho they did rethink alot with 2.0 and 2.1, its getting there. |
| 12:59.43 | Shirik|AFK | Like I said, I don't have time for this. If you so desire I can argue this later, but not before a test |
| 12:59.57 | Legorol | fair enough, and good luck on your test |
| 12:59.57 | cladhaire | Shirik|AFK: I don't expect you to, nor did I expect an argument. |
| 13:00.01 | cladhaire | and he's gone |
| 13:00.04 | cladhaire | alrighty then |
| 13:00.13 | Luminax | whoah drama... my eyes are burning >< |
| 13:00.26 | Luminax | I am thoroughly aware I started that >_> |
| 13:00.28 | nevcairiel | my server is probably burning somewhere over in france |
| 13:00.47 | wobin | Your server is in a zepplin? |
| 13:00.51 | wobin | Oh the humanity! =( |
| 13:00.58 | wobin | oh |
| 13:00.59 | Luminax | dirigible ! |
| 13:01.00 | wobin | over -in- |
| 13:01.03 | wobin | not over |
| 13:01.05 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 13:01.17 | nevcairiel | i was wondering where the zepplin came from now =P |
| 13:01.30 | Luminax | don't be a what's-his-name-dwarf-hunter now |
| 13:02.01 | Legorol | Luminax: not drama, just a normal day in the lounge |
| 13:02.08 | Legorol | we have to get our intellectual stimuli from somewhere |
| 13:02.08 | Luminax | so it seems |
| 13:02.23 | Luminax | so anyway... let's just drop the thought of arranging my 'data' by dates |
| 13:02.36 | Luminax | the whole possible array boggles my mind now |
| 13:02.39 | Luminax | uh... 'table' |
| 13:03.03 | Legorol | personally (and this is just my opinion), for day/hour precision, i'd trust the local time |
| 13:03.14 | cladhaire | Legorol: you cant in the situation we're talking about |
| 13:03.15 | Legorol | the only time i can think of that this would be bad is if someone's deliberately faking it, |
| 13:03.18 | cladhaire | you need something else |
| 13:03.22 | zenzelezz | this thing still cracks me up: http://home.samsen.com/zenzelezz/matrix_big.gif |
| 13:03.37 | Legorol | cladhaire: aren't you after unique timestamps? |
| 13:03.40 | nevcairiel | they are trying to sync information between different players, and you cannot rely on local date/time |
| 13:03.41 | cladhaire | Legorol: you underestimate the amount of users who are blatantly off on their local time. |
| 13:03.43 | Luminax | if someone's deliberately 'faking' it ? |
| 13:03.44 | Legorol | so how about day/hour from client, and minute from server? |
| 13:03.48 | Luminax | Legorol : elaborate |
| 13:03.53 | cladhaire | Legorol: on what day? |
| 13:03.58 | Legorol | cladhaire: would they be off by another hour? |
| 13:04.07 | nevcairiel | they can even be off by years |
| 13:04.08 | cladhaire | yes, they absolutely could/would be |
| 13:04.12 | nevcairiel | some users are that stupid :P |
| 13:04.14 | Legorol | ok fair enough |
| 13:04.15 | Luminax | ah |
| 13:04.35 | Luminax | you mean offsetting their local PC time either deliberately or by some totally stupid mistake... |
| 13:04.37 | Legorol | ok how about this defense: if they are that stupid, i don't want them in my guild/near my database |
| 13:04.40 | Legorol | does that work? ;-) |
| 13:04.42 | wobin | stupid mistake usually |
| 13:04.53 | Legorol | Luminax: yes deliberate offsetting |
| 13:04.55 | wobin | I've often recieved emails with horrible datetime |
| 13:04.56 | Legorol | to cheat your system |
| 13:04.57 | cladhaire | Legorol: that would be nice, but not realistic =) |
| 13:05.04 | Legorol | hehe i know, i am just dreaming |
| 13:05.09 | nevcairiel | no one sets their clock wrong deliberately, well except, to fool a weak shareware protection =P |
| 13:05.18 | cladhaire | distributed DB is simple with central timestamps. |
| 13:05.23 | Luminax | shareware protection pfft |
| 13:05.35 | Luminax | sometimes all it takes is a few NOPs |
| 13:05.37 | nevcairiel | "oh 30 day trial over" /me sets clock back |
| 13:05.59 | Luminax | or a few jxx change |
| 13:06.08 | nevcairiel | we know howto do that |
| 13:06.14 | nevcairiel | but the general user just changes his date =OP |
| 13:06.36 | zenzelezz | not all shareware did blind date checks |
| 13:06.47 | nevcairiel | or just googles for a keylogger with a patch atached |
| 13:06.51 | zenzelezz | I recall some that stored the previous values and said "hey, asshole, you turned the time back" |
| 13:07.03 | nevcairiel | heh |
| 13:07.08 | nevcairiel | yeah doesnt work for all |
| 13:07.09 | Legorol | yup, i came across a really ingenious one once |
| 13:07.29 | Luminax | uh-huh... |
| 13:07.38 | Legorol | it stored data in the desktop.ini file in the My Documents folder |
| 13:07.38 | Mikk | cladhaire: I've been pondering letting everyone in a guild edit the guildinfo window for sync :S |
| 13:07.40 | Luminax | I found a shareware that saved about 70 inis allover the computer once |
| 13:07.57 | cladhaire | Mikk: yep, thats one way to do it |
| 13:07.58 | Legorol | as well as various other files that'd be sure to be present, it had three redundancies |
| 13:08.02 | Luminax | luckily I have a tracker that informs me of any new 'unauthorized' additions |
| 13:08.02 | krka | shareware is 20% actual code, 80% cheat protection |
| 13:08.11 | nevcairiel | true |
| 13:08.13 | Luminax | that's about right |
| 13:08.23 | nevcairiel | most "cracked" .exe files are like half the size |
| 13:08.33 | nevcairiel | if its not only some NOPs |
| 13:08.40 | Luminax | though the cheat protection can be so dumb the last one I had only need one NOP to get out of its long loop |
| 13:08.44 | Mikk | nevcairiel: that's comet cursor removed :-P |
| 13:08.49 | nevcairiel | :P |
| 13:08.57 | Luminax | ew comet cursor |
| 13:08.58 | Luminax | ewwww |
| 13:09.02 | Mikk | hihi |
| 13:09.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Aella (n=Aella@74.221.43.140) |
| 13:12.06 | Luminax | anyway... |
| 13:12.29 | Luminax | anyone knows if killing any 'yellow' Netherwing drakes sets you back in rep ? |
| 13:12.42 | Mikk | check the combatlog? |
| 13:12.52 | wobin | hehe =) |
| 13:12.59 | Luminax | I haven't tried any and I'm 'just' neutral with them |
| 13:13.05 | Luminax | doesn't want that little bit of rep taken from me :( |
| 13:13.10 | Aella | What are they called? |
| 13:13.14 | Legorol | Luminax: it doesn't |
| 13:13.17 | wobin | "Joe" |
| 13:13.18 | Luminax | yay |
| 13:13.24 | Legorol | if ou are talking about the ones in Netherstorm |
| 13:13.31 | Luminax | that one, mainly |
| 13:13.32 | Legorol | it doesn't affect your Netherwing rep at all |
| 13:13.36 | Luminax | but how about the one in Blade's Edge ? |
| 13:13.38 | Legorol | i am less certain about other ones |
| 13:13.43 | Luminax | ah okay |
| 13:13.46 | Aella | What's it called? |
| 13:13.50 | Luminax | I'll try when I get a bit more rep with them |
| 13:13.53 | Luminax | what's what called ? |
| 13:13.57 | Legorol | but i think they'd follow the same pattern, especially if it's for a quest |
| 13:14.01 | Aella | The one in Blade's Edge. |
| 13:14.06 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Funkeh` (n=funkydud@host81-157-112-30.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) |
| 13:14.06 | Luminax | uhm |
| 13:14.09 | wobin | "Fred" |
| 13:14.10 | Luminax | the one in the Netherwing Ledge |
| 13:14.12 | krka | blizzard should really add time sync-features for us |
| 13:14.15 | Luminax | ...right |
| 13:14.23 | Luminax | and yes, krka that would be lovely :( |
| 13:14.29 | Luminax | everybody poke slouken all at once !! |
| 13:14.41 | cladhaire | lol |
| 13:14.46 | cladhaire | i've asked for server data |
| 13:14.48 | cladhaire | date |
| 13:14.50 | cladhaire | which is all we need |
| 13:14.59 | Luminax | that's all I need :3 |
| 13:14.59 | cladhaire | its so far down on his priority list, don't expect to see it anytime soon |
| 13:15.06 | Bleeter | holy crap! there's an inkeeper in evergrove now! |
| 13:15.08 | krka | actually... can someone explain the original problem? |
| 13:15.09 | cladhaire | in the meantime, why doesn't someone make a list of UTC offsets based on realm nae |
| 13:15.11 | krka | i never quite got it |
| 13:15.14 | Legorol | Bleeter: RTFPN |
| 13:15.20 | cladhaire | wouldn't take _that_ long |
| 13:15.24 | cladhaire | krka: We have server time, but not server date. |
| 13:15.26 | cladhaire | that's the problem |
| 13:15.30 | cladhaire | you can't rely on the client date ortime |
| 13:15.33 | Bleeter | Legorol: what is this R of which you speak! |
| 13:15.35 | krka | why do we need server date? |
| 13:15.36 | Legorol | cladhaire: won't work, realm names are not unique |
| 13:15.46 | Legorol | Bleeter: Recycle |
| 13:15.47 | cladhaire | Legorol: Per region they are. |
| 13:15.47 | foxlit | Have user specify locale |
| 13:15.59 | Legorol | but you don't know your region |
| 13:16.20 | Bleeter | Legorol: recycle the patch notes? I thought that was BLizz's job! |
| 13:16.22 | krka | i know i am in europe! |
| 13:16.23 | foxlit | SET patchlist "eu.version.worldofwarcraft.com" ? |
| 13:16.26 | cladhaire | yes, but thats an easier problem. |
| 13:16.32 | Legorol | true |
| 13:16.34 | foxlit | Uf that's a cvar, I know what region I'm in |
| 13:16.36 | krka | seriously |
| 13:16.39 | foxlit | *If |
| 13:16.43 | krka | why do we need server date? |
| 13:16.46 | Legorol | foxlit: unreliable |
| 13:16.52 | Legorol | you can log into US with an EU client |
| 13:17.00 | cladhaire | krka: Time isn't a timestamp.. you need date and time. |
| 13:17.04 | foxlit | The percentage of people doing that is miserable |
| 13:17.09 | krka | i am asking what you need it for |
| 13:17.11 | Luminax | I know I can log into EU with a US client :3 |
| 13:17.13 | foxlit | And for all I care, they can download the full US client |
| 13:17.14 | cladhaire | data synchronization |
| 13:17.14 | Legorol | if anything, use realmlist CVar |
| 13:17.26 | Legorol | actually, that's a good point |
| 13:17.26 | Aella | Yeah, realmList should work. |
| 13:17.29 | krka | i am not following - what kind of data synchronization? |
| 13:17.30 | Legorol | realmList is alwyas reliable |
| 13:17.36 | Legorol | since that's the thing you logged in to |
| 13:17.54 | foxlit | Just picked the first one with "eu" in it, tbh :) |
| 13:18.13 | cladhaire | krka: ANY kind of data sync. It doesn't matter what its for. |
| 13:18.15 | cladhaire | a knowledge base |
| 13:18.16 | cladhaire | DKP data |
| 13:18.18 | foxlit | They should actually kill the whole US/EU client being interchangable |
| 13:18.20 | cladhaire | logs, etc. |
| 13:18.31 | krka | can clients get their own time / date? |
| 13:18.33 | Luminax | data mining by dates |
| 13:18.35 | cladhaire | yes |
| 13:18.37 | cladhaire | but we can't rely on those |
| 13:18.37 | Luminax | such as transactions |
| 13:18.40 | cladhaire | as we've already stated. |
| 13:18.44 | foxlit | They already torrent the full client around, might as well force people to use region-correct ones :P |
| 13:18.48 | krka | hmm... why can't you rely on it? |
| 13:18.51 | cladhaire | because |
| 13:18.54 | krka | you're communicating with people you know, right? |
| 13:18.55 | cladhaire | clients have dates and times off by years |
| 13:18.58 | cladhaire | no |
| 13:19.01 | cladhaire | yes |
| 13:19.01 | cladhaire | people i know |
| 13:19.06 | cladhaire | but i dont know how they have their computer set up |
| 13:19.15 | Legorol | foxlit: they have done something about that in 2.1 |
| 13:19.17 | cladhaire | you absolutely and 100% cannot assume that client date/time will be even remotely accurate. |
| 13:19.20 | Legorol | does anyone know how i can log in to US? |
| 13:19.23 | krka | right. what does it matter if they're in the future or past? |
| 13:19.26 | Legorol | changing realmList alone is not enough anymore :/ |
| 13:19.30 | cladhaire | krka: okay |
| 13:19.36 | cladhaire | krka: this is simple.. I log data at timestamp X |
| 13:19.39 | cladhaire | you log it at timestamp Y |
| 13:19.43 | krka | you right |
| 13:19.46 | cladhaire | i need to be able to know who came first |
| 13:19.48 | krka | we calculate our time difference |
| 13:19.51 | cladhaire | you can't do that without dates. |
| 13:20.03 | cladhaire | and you can't rely on the clients |
| 13:20.05 | krka | i ping you and send my timestamp, you reply with your timestamp |
| 13:20.10 | foxlit | server time = uniform up to a minute or so |
| 13:20.11 | krka | we store the difference |
| 13:20.18 | cladhaire | and the communication overhead is exponential. |
| 13:20.23 | Legorol | ok i don't know how they do it, but realmList and patchlist revert to EU versions if i try to change them |
| 13:20.27 | krka | exponential? |
| 13:20.57 | cladhaire | you can get around it with elaborate ptp or transaction systems |
| 13:20.58 | foxlit | 2^n |
| 13:20.59 | krka | Legorol: perhaps they match your account to a specific region |
| 13:21.02 | cladhaire | but the solution is a date, simplly. |
| 13:21.17 | krka | clients just have local time, not local date? |
| 13:21.21 | cladhaire | they have local date |
| 13:21.23 | cladhaire | but we cnanot rely on it. |
| 13:21.38 | cladhaire | i've explained all of this, three times now =) |
| 13:21.43 | krka | i am just stupid |
| 13:21.46 | Luminax | you know there are lots of people who don't care what dates they have on their PC |
| 13:21.48 | cladhaire | no, you're not |
| 13:21.48 | Luminax | like... |
| 13:21.52 | cladhaire | you're stubborn, that's different. |
| 13:21.57 | Luminax | they could be at 27 May of 1987 for all we care ! |
| 13:21.59 | krka | no, that's not it, really |
| 13:22.10 | Legorol | krka: the region selection reverts before i even type in account info |
| 13:22.17 | krka | i just dont understand why calculating your time diff won't work |
| 13:22.20 | cladhaire | krka: As a user, I can set my PC time to anything I want |
| 13:22.28 | cladhaire | Because you need to know what DATE it is |
| 13:22.32 | cladhaire | in some central location |
| 13:22.51 | krka | why? |
| 13:22.58 | cladhaire | because of the date line |
| 13:23.15 | Luminax | even if you, say, compare user A date to user B and store the difference for reference, either user A or user B can cheat out and change their date |
| 13:23.18 | Luminax | thus rendering it moot again |
| 13:23.24 | krka | and we can't produce a timestamp from local date and local time? |
| 13:23.31 | cladhaire | not a central one |
| 13:23.34 | krka | date lines shouldnt be an issue if so |
| 13:23.36 | cladhaire | you can't just rely on local timestamps. |
| 13:23.40 | krka | right |
| 13:23.47 | cladhaire | so you use the server time |
| 13:23.49 | cladhaire | which we already have |
| 13:23.50 | krka | and the difference between two users timestamps should be constant |
| 13:23.52 | cladhaire | but if i make a log entry on Monday |
| 13:23.54 | Tain | Alas poor Last.FM. I knew him, Horatio. |
| 13:23.55 | krka | unless someone changes their clock |
| 13:23.56 | cladhaire | and I make a log entry on Tuesday |
| 13:24.01 | cladhaire | I need to know why they're different |
| 13:24.07 | cladhaire | krka: Or their clock is ALWAYS off by a day |
| 13:24.20 | Luminax | -[21:23:07]- <krka> unless someone changes their clock <-- THIS is what clad has been trying to tell you :p |
| 13:24.25 | Luminax | *had |
| 13:24.31 | Luminax | *have... meh |
| 13:24.34 | krka | right, but why do you need to communicate with people you don't trust? |
| 13:24.40 | Luminax | English *shrug* |
| 13:24.43 | cladhaire | irts NOT trust |
| 13:24.46 | cladhaire | its misconfiguration |
| 13:24.49 | cladhaire | its laziness |
| 13:24.53 | Aella | It's not a matter of trust, it's a matter of trusting in their computer-savvyness. |
| 13:25.01 | cladhaire | i can't speak with every single guild member to ensure their CMOS battery doesn't reset |
| 13:25.02 | cladhaire | etc. |
| 13:25.06 | Luminax | Aella that sounds badly off |
| 13:25.11 | foxlit | windows syncs time/date |
| 13:25.12 | foxlit | :P |
| 13:25.21 | cladhaire | foxlit: in an xp installation by default |
| 13:25.21 | krka | also, it's just a matter of syncing time differences everytime you log in |
| 13:25.26 | cladhaire | *sigh* |
| 13:25.27 | foxlit | Most people probably can't keep their clock at permamently wrong state |
| 13:25.37 | cladhaire | krka: sync against what? |
| 13:25.41 | krka | eachother |
| 13:25.46 | cladhaire | who's right? |
| 13:25.50 | cladhaire | take a vote? |
| 13:25.52 | Luminax | and get a bunch of misnomer... |
| 13:25.56 | cladhaire | that's worse than anything else we've proposed. |
| 13:26.02 | Legorol | foxlit: i don't know how they do it, but i can't redirect the client to the US anymore |
| 13:26.03 | Tain | That would rule. |
| 13:26.06 | krka | no one is right, and everoyne is. i report 2007-05-30 15:25, you report 2007-05-30 07.25 |
| 13:26.13 | cladhaire | okayt |
| 13:26.14 | Tain | Every time you log in you get a vote window. "What time is it?" |
| 13:26.16 | krka | i store the time diff -8h |
| 13:26.20 | Luminax | ...LOL |
| 13:26.23 | Luminax | HAHA |
| 13:26.24 | Luminax | ahahaha... |
| 13:26.28 | Luminax | ha... |
| 13:26.33 | zenzelezz | ... |
| 13:26.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dinesh-work (n=chatzill@146.145.196.188) |
| 13:26.49 | krka | then everytime you post a time message, i convert it to my local time |
| 13:27.31 | cladhaire | krka: then . again.. exponential communication between clients |
| 13:27.32 | cladhaire | == bad |
| 13:27.32 | cladhaire | every single client has to hit every other client |
| 13:27.32 | krka | no |
| 13:27.32 | Aella | This isn't in a guild, then? |
| 13:27.32 | krka | for N clients, you just need N - 1 diffs |
| 13:27.33 | cladhaire | each client needs n - 1 diffs |
| 13:27.40 | Legorol | krka is right |
| 13:27.40 | Luminax | whoaa.... this is a patch note that sounds pleasing to the ear |
| 13:27.41 | foxlit | Each client needs to send n-1 messages |
| 13:27.42 | nevcairiel | its a one-time diff on login |
| 13:27.43 | cladhaire | which means each client needs to send one message |
| 13:27.44 | Legorol | you just have to chain all users |
| 13:27.47 | Luminax | "Fixed a crash in the client" |
| 13:27.47 | cladhaire | and calculate the diff |
| 13:27.59 | cladhaire | you can't chain it without another message |
| 13:28.11 | foxlit | But clad, if you're designing it with laziness, why not have the clients tell on everyone they know about? |
| 13:28.16 | krka | if everyone just posts their entire list of diffs along with their local time, everyone can compute everyones diff rather quickly |
| 13:28.21 | Legorol | well you message someone, if they are already chained to some people, then you are good |
| 13:28.39 | Legorol | every time you send a message, you extend the chain |
| 13:28.39 | krka | also, you dont have to post this very often |
| 13:28.42 | Luminax | too bad this isn't code-level things... |
| 13:28.45 | Legorol | ow wait |
| 13:28.59 | Legorol | no, it works |
| 13:29.02 | cladhaire | i do not see how |
| 13:29.06 | Aella | *clears throat* Bottom line, if you want this to work without a great deal of communication back and forth, with handling for if the user changes their date, then the best way to do it would be getting a server time. |
| 13:29.09 | cladhaire | without communications overhead. |
| 13:29.17 | Legorol | hmm |
| 13:29.21 | krka | Aella: true |
| 13:29.29 | cladhaire | yes |
| 13:29.29 | krka | but that would be boringly easy |
| 13:29.31 | cladhaire | and i said that |
| 13:29.31 | Luminax | overhead is a big problem on a script-level |
| 13:29.33 | Aella | It's definitely *possible* without it. |
| 13:29.34 | cladhaire | quite some time ago. |
| 13:29.36 | Legorol | ok consider this scenario: |
| 13:29.41 | cladhaire | Aella: I mentinoed at least three methods where it WAS possible. |
| 13:29.44 | cladhaire | all morning. |
| 13:29.48 | cladhaire | that's why I don't know what the hell we're talking about |
| 13:29.51 | Tain | And here I was assuming there was some reason you couldn't get the server time and that's the only reason for this discussion. |
| 13:29.58 | Aella | I'm just reasserting it, because I also don't know what the hell we're talking about. =P |
| 13:30.20 | Legorol | this is an interesting theoretical debate though |
| 13:30.21 | Aella | There is, Tain. We can get server time, but not server date. |
| 13:30.34 | krka | hm, now i am actually curious how i'd implement the timediff sharing |
| 13:30.35 | Legorol | i have a proposal on how to do it with n-1 syncs |
| 13:30.56 | nevcairiel | i dont see how krka's method would cause excessive overhead, you store the diff once in a handshake message, and all syncing sends the local timestamp, every client converts it to his own local version using the diff from before. |
| 13:31.04 | krka | member #1 posts his to member #2. member #2 passes his and #1 to member 3 |
| 13:31.04 | krka | et.c. |
| 13:31.12 | krka | or even better |
| 13:31.14 | krka | you do it as a binary tree |
| 13:31.16 | Legorol | not so simple krka |
| 13:31.22 | cladhaire | this is not how distributed systems works, people. |
| 13:31.24 | krka | will take log(n) steps, with n - 1 messages |
| 13:31.33 | Legorol | can i try to propose my method? |
| 13:31.35 | cladhaire | this isn't a "new" problem. |
| 13:31.51 | krka | (sorry, i realize i was wrong btw) |
| 13:31.52 | Legorol | ok i think it's basically what krka is saying, now that i think about it |
| 13:31.59 | Legorol | let's use induction |
| 13:32.08 | Tain | So you have someone log in and post a torrent in the AH, and then everyone else buys the torrent. And you all swarm times. |
| 13:32.11 | Legorol | imagine you already have a few groups of people, all of whom know all offsets to each other |
| 13:32.25 | Legorol | but not between the groups |
| 13:32.33 | Legorol | hmm |
| 13:32.41 | krka | way to go |
| 13:32.49 | Luminax | lol |
| 13:32.52 | Aella | I hate it when that happens. >.< |
| 13:33.04 | cladhaire | what is being proposed, doesn't scale, and assumes too much prior knowledge |
| 13:33.05 | cladhaire | possible, yes. |
| 13:33.06 | Legorol | ah yeah that's right |
| 13:33.28 | Legorol | so when one person tries to contact a member of the other group, |
| 13:33.34 | Legorol | they sync their data, so far so good |
| 13:33.47 | Legorol | the question is how do you avoid the rest of their respective groups having to have all that data too |
| 13:33.53 | cladhaire | by sync their data, you mean calculate an offset? |
| 13:33.57 | Legorol | yup, |
| 13:34.06 | Legorol | and also send all data they have about the offsets within their group |
| 13:34.16 | Luminax | that still have to designate ONE node as 'central' |
| 13:34.32 | cladhaire | you're distributing the communication, but it has the exact same overhead |
| 13:34.46 | cladhaire | you're just electing a speaker |
| 13:34.49 | cladhaire | and having him communicate |
| 13:34.55 | Legorol | true |
| 13:34.56 | cladhaire | but he had to get his offsets to begin with |
| 13:35.04 | krka | my strategy: keep a list of offsets. determine which online users who you dont have an offset to. ask someone randomly at that list for their offset list. update your list |
| 13:35.04 | Legorol | also i found some flaws with what i was going to propose in addition |
| 13:35.27 | Legorol | ok never mind me |
| 13:35.30 | cladhaire | not to mention, the storage complexity of this |
| 13:35.37 | cladhaire | compared to GetServerDate() |
| 13:35.40 | cladhaire | or even the realm list table |
| 13:35.44 | krka | since people come and go, in general only the new person will be out of sync |
| 13:35.55 | krka | so he can just ask anyone there, and they will update him |
| 13:36.06 | krka | hmm... and then everyone has to ask the new guy |
| 13:36.09 | Aella | Yeah, realm list table is probably the simplest way without a server date. |
| 13:36.14 | cladhaire | krka: user has a bad cmos battery, every time the computer is powered off it goes back to the start of the computing epoch |
| 13:36.24 | cladhaire | every login potentially you need to re-check |
| 13:36.25 | Luminax | epoch ftw.. |
| 13:36.35 | krka | every login is not very often though |
| 13:36.48 | zenzelezz | cladhaire: or he's playing on a school computer that is stupid and resets the time on purpose on every boot |
| 13:36.51 | Legorol | if i get flooded by data each time people log in, i'll be annoyed |
| 13:37.01 | cladhaire | and possibly booted from the server =) |
| 13:37.06 | cladhaire | it can be done in one message |
| 13:37.09 | cladhaire | but that's one message per user logging in |
| 13:37.12 | cladhaire | 500 member guild |
| 13:37.13 | cladhaire | == dead |
| 13:37.24 | krka | you could just use the guild channel |
| 13:37.26 | krka | :) |
| 13:37.30 | Legorol | that's a minor issue compared to the rest, cladhaire ;D |
| 13:37.30 | cladhaire | we are |
| 13:37.32 | cladhaire | in this case |
| 13:37.34 | Legorol | you can throttle |
| 13:37.39 | cladhaire | yes, you can |
| 13:37.44 | krka | everyone simple posts their time to the guild channel |
| 13:37.50 | cladhaire | but that doesn't always take into account the INCOMING data |
| 13:37.53 | Legorol | let's not worry about such technical details just yet, stick tothe abstract |
| 13:37.53 | cladhaire | and its the combination that boots you. |
| 13:38.09 | cladhaire | they're central to the problem, and the fact that it doesn't scale, tho =) |
| 13:38.11 | krka | you can be kicked off by _receiving_ too much data? |
| 13:38.14 | cladhaire | you can't just ignore that in dist systems |
| 13:38.17 | cladhaire | krka: absolutely |
| 13:38.26 | Legorol | cladhaire: whoah |
| 13:38.28 | cladhaire | krka: its the combination of in/out that will boot you |
| 13:38.29 | cladhaire | afaik |
| 13:38.30 | Legorol | so you can do DoS on someone? |
| 13:38.31 | cladhaire | i could be wrong. |
| 13:38.34 | krka | so you can go: 1..2...3... message _that_ guy |
| 13:38.34 | cladhaire | but that is my understanding |
| 13:38.40 | cladhaire | krka: we should test it =) |
| 13:38.40 | krka | and 500 members of the guild nuke some poor bastard |
| 13:38.46 | cladhaire | but thats my understanding |
| 13:38.49 | Tain | That would be fantastic. |
| 13:38.54 | cladhaire | which is probably wrong=) |
| 13:38.59 | cladhaire | cause that would be too fun |
| 13:39.02 | Aella | Man, that could be used evilly. |
| 13:39.08 | Legorol | Aella: could? |
| 13:39.08 | Luminax | you can't nuke someone with normal means, I don't think |
| 13:39.09 | Aella | Unpopular raiding guild? |
| 13:39.09 | Legorol | WOULD |
| 13:39.21 | Tain | It is important that this be tested. |
| 13:39.30 | zenzelezz | when he got back on he could report you for harrassment |
| 13:39.39 | cladhaire | zenzelezz: addon channels |
| 13:39.43 | cladhaire | they're not visible. |
| 13:39.44 | krka | i doubt this is true |
| 13:39.46 | Tain | The person would never know. |
| 13:39.47 | Legorol | zenzelezz: sure he could, but |
| 13:39.48 | zenzelezz | still harrassment |
| 13:39.49 | Aella | And report 500 people? |
| 13:39.51 | cladhaire | krka: I hope not =) |
| 13:39.52 | Legorol | the damage is already done |
| 13:39.57 | Legorol | and GM team responds very slowly |
| 13:40.00 | cladhaire | krka: But I remember slouken saying something about that |
| 13:40.00 | zenzelezz | Aella: I wouldn't hesitate if they were being jackasses |
| 13:40.01 | cladhaire | Mikk: would know. |
| 13:40.15 | Aella | Your client just disconnected, from invisible messages. How do you get 500 name? |
| 13:40.18 | Aella | *names |
| 13:40.26 | Legorol | Aella: not impossible, entire guilds got banned before for example for exploiting a raid encounter |
| 13:40.38 | Aella | True, guess there are GM logs. |
| 13:40.38 | Legorol | but you are right that you dont' know the culprit |
| 13:40.48 | Legorol | GM would know hopefully |
| 13:40.49 | zenzelezz | log the traffic |
| 13:42.03 | Legorol | they already log all normal chat traffic |
| 13:42.04 | cladhaire | ace/cosmos/ctmod could easily write a botnet. |
| 13:42.04 | zenzelezz | I mean the user could |
| 13:42.04 | cladhaire | dev logs in |
| 13:42.04 | zenzelezz | to see who were the culprits |
| 13:42.04 | cladhaire | onto any server |
| 13:42.04 | cladhaire | finds someone with the addon |
| 13:42.04 | Legorol | zenzelezz: doesn't help in retrospect |
| 13:42.04 | cladhaire | and triggers the net |
| 13:42.04 | Luminax | omg... I have to uninstall any ace/ctmod now :o |
| 13:42.05 | Legorol | how do you know it's not already in there ;-) |
| 13:42.05 | Legorol | Luminax: thanks for keeping Cosmos! |
| 13:42.05 | Luminax | lol |
| 13:42.06 | Luminax | cosmos ? I don't even use that trash to begin with |
| 13:42.06 | zenzelezz | there were botnets in Anarchy Online... chat bot nets o_O |
| 13:42.06 | Luminax | sorry if there's any cosmos dev in here :3 |
| 13:42.10 | Legorol | <- |
| 13:42.10 | Legorol | although kinda retired |
| 13:42.10 | Luminax | yay ! |
| 13:42.15 | Legorol | AnduinLothar too |
| 13:42.18 | Legorol | he is the head of Cosmos |
| 13:42.21 | Legorol | sure, feel free |
| 13:42.26 | Luminax | but seriously though |
| 13:42.27 | Legorol | it will pass right by me |
| 13:42.33 | Luminax | Cosmos pushes way too much on your face |
| 13:42.38 | sysrage | the complete cosmos package is beyond bloat, but there are a lot of really nice addons stuck in there |
| 13:42.38 | zenzelezz | Luminax: just beware of Cairenn |
| 13:42.50 | Luminax | unless you know your way around, that's a potential 30+ unused addons |
| 13:43.00 | Legorol | zenzelezz: intelligent and positive criticism is welcome |
| 13:43.00 | Tain | Speaking of Anarchy Online, I still wish other games would follow suit with the way they made it so that you could chat in-game from a webpage and not have to be in-game. |
| 13:43.01 | Luminax | oh yes there are sysrage |
| 13:43.08 | Legorol | "piece of trash" doesn't contain much info, but doesn't annoy me either |
| 13:43.16 | cladhaire | koay |
| 13:43.21 | cladhaire | Mikk's data shows only outbound |
| 13:43.32 | zenzelezz | Legorol: yes, but it's easy to go too far :-p |
| 13:43.33 | sysrage | tain: eq2 had that too. loved it. could chat with guild while at work heh |
| 13:43.37 | Aella | I used Cosmos once, a long time ago. Got the full pack, put it in, logged in... and my UI was completely changed. |
| 13:43.38 | zenzelezz | I should know, I do all the time |
| 13:43.52 | Legorol | seeems like you guys never tried Mazzle |
| 13:43.54 | Aella | I remember thinking "why did they decide I liked my tooltip at the top center of my screen?" |
| 13:43.57 | Legorol | now *that* completely changes your UI |
| 13:44.04 | Luminax | I used Cosmos once... and everytime I enter into ANY instance, or get on boat, or anything that requires loading screen |
| 13:44.06 | Aella | Then I uninstalled it. |
| 13:44.07 | cladhaire | krka: Legorol: So based on what Mikk has documented, its only the sending that will disconnect.. its filling that buffer that causes the issue. |
| 13:44.11 | Luminax | I would get a potential 30-1 minute lag |
| 13:44.18 | Luminax | *30 seconds |
| 13:44.26 | Aella | Haven't tried it since, so take it with a grain of salt. |
| 13:44.30 | Legorol | cladhaire: out of curiousity, how was this tested? |
| 13:44.39 | cladhaire | http://www.wowwiki.com/ChatThrottleLib |
| 13:44.41 | Luminax | filling the send buffer ? |
| 13:44.42 | cladhaire | i'm reading not testing |
| 13:44.44 | Legorol | i also heard that whilst incoming data won't disconnect you, it reduces the amount ou can send before you get DCd |
| 13:44.50 | Luminax | ah ChatThrottleLib... I use that :3 |
| 13:44.59 | Tain | That was probably an issue that was WoW issue, Luminax. It was fixed many, many patches ago. Cosmos probably just made it seem worse, but wasn't the cause. |
| 13:45.01 | Legorol | that's AnduinLothar's work, isn't it |
| 13:45.14 | Legorol | nvm me |
| 13:45.16 | Luminax | Tain : how many patches ago was this ? :o |
| 13:46.53 | Luminax | anyway... time to take a lil' break from WoW and play Gunbound-JP :3 |
| 13:47.39 | Mikk | Legorol / Cladhaire: I haven't done any real testing with send+receive, but I _HAVE_ abused craftlist in-guild |
| 13:47.44 | Mikk | Basically everyone in our guild has it |
| 13:47.52 | Mikk | And I tried a !craftlist e |
| 13:48.05 | Mikk | Took bloody forever for all the shit to scroll by on my screen |
| 13:48.06 | Mikk | But no disconnect |
| 13:48.10 | cladhaire | k k |
| 13:48.12 | cladhaire | good to know. |
| 13:48.22 | Mikk | I'm pretty sure I know what happens wrt disconnects |
| 13:48.25 | Luminax | I have tried that too with the !gem addons |
| 13:48.39 | Mikk | Luminax: craftlist accepts queries in guildchat these days |
| 13:48.45 | Luminax | hrm |
| 13:48.53 | Mikk | So I got nearly every craft from nearly every guild member online |
| 13:49.14 | Pac2722 | gen addons? |
| 13:49.14 | Luminax | heh... |
| 13:49.14 | Luminax | how about auctioneer's price check ;P |
| 13:49.28 | Luminax | that's another potential testing ground |
| 13:49.46 | zenzelezz | my guild chat was often spammed with "x [item link]" to get the auctioneer price check |
| 13:49.46 | Luminax | anyway I'm off to gun someone to death ! |
| 13:49.54 | Legorol | Mikk: to throw a wrench in the works, does CraftList use throttling? |
| 13:50.05 | Mikk | Legorol: ChatThrottleLib yeah |
| 13:50.08 | Legorol | because if your guildmembers were throttling their output, that naturally throttles your input |
| 13:50.10 | Mikk | Otherwise they'd all have been disconnected =P |
| 13:50.21 | Legorol | if you see what i mean |
| 13:50.28 | Luminax | Legorol : that only throttles your input PER person |
| 13:50.29 | Mikk | They all gave me a 4k burst + 800 cps sustained |
| 13:50.29 | Josh_Borke | hola |
| 13:50.30 | cladhaire | Legorol: they only throttle with respect to themselves |
| 13:50.36 | Legorol | for a true test you'd have to have them send at max posible non-disconnect rate |
| 13:50.40 | Luminax | but getting lots of messages from lots of sources |
| 13:50.40 | Mikk | Figure 20 people I was getting shit from |
| 13:50.44 | Legorol | cladhaire: i know |
| 13:51.02 | Mikk | So that's nearly 1MB burst initially |
| 13:51.13 | Luminax | if anything, that would probably lag your wow a bit |
| 13:51.26 | Mikk | Aye, my FPS wasn't at its highest :-P |
| 13:51.31 | Luminax | but then again... that 'message throttling' seems to apply a lot to movement and such too |
| 13:51.41 | Luminax | ever got disconnected when you're manouvring on a gryph ? |
| 13:51.49 | Mikk | This is how I think it works |
| 13:52.03 | Mikk | Chat + all other input (movement, turning, etc) gets passed down the single TCP stream |
| 13:52.13 | Mikk | On the server side, there's a 32KB buffer per session |
| 13:52.24 | Mikk | The server software is being stupid and despooling as soon as there's data |
| 13:52.37 | Mikk | If they ever discover that their 32KB buffer is full, there's no other recourse than to disconnect |
| 13:52.57 | Mikk | The _right_ way to do it would be to simply not despool if there isn't room. That's ok since we're talking TCP -- the client would just back off. |
| 13:53.13 | Luminax | stream message queues |
| 13:53.13 | Mikk | But this isn't how it's done, for some reason |
| 13:53.31 | Luminax | Mikk : I'm guessing that might be for syncing reason |
| 13:53.39 | Mikk | Possibly yeah |
| 13:53.57 | Luminax | the game is, to a certain extent, a real-time 'action' game |
| 13:54.27 | Mikk | I'd still have prefered having the client freeze up tho :S |
| 13:54.38 | End | so if the server is particularly laggy for a bit, you'll get disconnected because the server isn't processing it and it gets full...that make sense |
| 13:54.39 | Luminax | although unlike most real-time action game, your response rate is limited to how fast your character can respond |
| 13:55.27 | Luminax | but that's plentiful since most people can't even react as fast as their character can... |
| 13:56.02 | Legorol | Mikk: i will venture a very wild guess here |
| 13:56.18 | Legorol | rejecting TCP packets would have to happen on the networking level of things |
| 13:56.36 | Legorol | if they have a complete network package that they are using as a whole, they may not want to change any code in that |
| 13:56.40 | Mikk | Anyway, I've established that the server will despool somewhere around 3000 CPS or a little more. It doesn't seem to depend on message size. ChatThrottleLib currently throttles to 800 CPS, which should leave plenty of room for movement & mousing. |
| 13:56.57 | Legorol | most networking APIs just give you the data and hide the details of TCP packets from you |
| 13:57.10 | Mikk | They'll be using a standard BSD socket interface like the next guy |
| 13:57.19 | Legorol | yeah |
| 13:57.21 | Aella | Wrapped in StormLib./ |
| 13:57.25 | Aella | Probably. |
| 13:57.37 | Legorol | so the 32Kb buffer is on top of that |
| 13:57.39 | Aella | Guess they might not use StormLib on the server, though. |
| 13:57.58 | Mikk | Legorol: Aye, I'm not talking about the TCP socket buffers. I'm talking about application data buffers. |
| 13:58.11 | Legorol | ok then i misunderstood |
| 13:58.25 | Mikk | Point is, they "shouldn't" be trying to despool TCP sockets when there's no room for it in the app buffers |
| 13:58.25 | Legorol | when you said "despooling", i thought you meant the passing of the data from the socket API to the application |
| 13:59.02 | Legorol | but then what about the TCP buffers? |
| 13:59.05 | Legorol | they'll get full |
| 13:59.11 | Mikk | If they just let the TCP socket's buffers (the "receive window") back up, it'll all be nicely controlled via TCP backoff |
| 13:59.13 | Legorol | ok good, then i understood you right |
| 13:59.26 | Mikk | Yeah, but the receive window backing up is not a problem |
| 13:59.30 | Mikk | This gets signalled back to the client |
| 13:59.34 | Mikk | Which stops transmitting |
| 13:59.41 | Legorol | yup |
| 13:59.45 | Legorol | and it's not even a problem in a realtime game |
| 14:00.01 | Legorol | i have had occasionas where the game "froze" in the sense that i could move, turn, jump etc., but the gameworld was dead |
| 14:00.13 | Legorol | then a few seconds later a massive burst of info came in and in fast-motion, everything moved at once |
| 14:00.22 | Legorol | that's preferred over a disconnect |
| 14:00.26 | Mikk | Well, we get this in WoW all the time :-P |
| 14:00.30 | Legorol | yeah |
| 14:00.30 | Mikk | And yeah it definitely is |
| 14:00.31 | Legorol | that's what i mean |
| 14:00.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik|Ecole (n=nospam@155.31.161.72) |
| 14:00.50 | Legorol | however, and here is a point i am not sure was mentioned yet, consider PvP |
| 14:00.56 | Legorol | actually i pondered this a lot before |
| 14:01.29 | Legorol | in PvP, a laggy player that can't transmit fast enough (either because the player's computer/connection is lagging on client side, or the server buffer is full) gives unfair advantage |
| 14:01.50 | Legorol | that's one of my biggest gripes |
| 14:01.58 | Legorol | people who have crap connection get an *advantage* |
| 14:02.13 | Mikk | Yeah they jump around on the screen |
| 14:02.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Telrin (n=test@klaagmuur.quince.nl) |
| 14:02.14 | Legorol | i even pondered the feasibility of lagging yourself on purpose |
| 14:02.28 | Shirik|Ecole | Legorol: such has been done in other games ;) |
| 14:02.33 | Legorol | throttle your tcp flow and interrupt it occasionally -> you appear to teleport |
| 14:02.33 | Mikk | It's certainly doable to delay all your outbound packets for a few seconds |
| 14:02.41 | Shirik|Ecole | and it sucks |
| 14:02.42 | Legorol | yeah |
| 14:02.51 | Legorol | this is something i haven't seen in WoW yet, but i think is very possible |
| 14:03.13 | Legorol | it's all because the server trusts the client for movement info |
| 14:03.18 | Legorol | which is meh :/ |
| 14:03.27 | Mikk | Mmm.. stand out of range of someone, step up, cast a nuke, step back out. |
| 14:03.37 | Mikk | Have packets delayed so that you only blip in and out of range for a split second |
| 14:03.39 | Mikk | Prolly doable |
| 14:03.39 | Luminax | speedhax ! |
| 14:03.52 | Legorol | and the worst part is, you can do it completely transparently to WoW |
| 14:03.59 | Mikk | Indeed |
| 14:04.01 | Luminax | hmm |
| 14:04.02 | Legorol | for example, you can just redirect the WoW TCP stream through a buffer |
| 14:04.14 | Luminax | but doesn't the 'range' check get reinforced server-side ? |
| 14:04.24 | Legorol | yes, but |
| 14:04.28 | Legorol | the server would see this: |
| 14:04.32 | Legorol | info comes in: client moves in range |
| 14:04.36 | Legorol | info comes in: client casts spell |
| 14:04.40 | cladhaire | it would be speedhacking, in a very true sense. |
| 14:04.40 | Legorol | info comes in: client moves out of range |
| 14:04.57 | Shirik|Ecole | though the server does give some leeway |
| 14:05.08 | Shirik|Ecole | in my tests it seems something like |
| 14:05.09 | Legorol | the crux of it is that those three bits of info would come in a single burst, rather than the rate that the player is generating it at |
| 14:05.12 | Shirik|Ecole | if it was possible something like half a second ago |
| 14:05.17 | Shirik|Ecole | the server will permit it |
| 14:05.28 | Legorol | yeah, there is a leeway |
| 14:05.29 | Shirik|Ecole | The reason I say this is because sometimes mobs will go out of range while I'm casting a spell |
| 14:05.40 | Legorol | that's different |
| 14:05.42 | Shirik|Ecole | the client still tries to cast it and it casts successfully, but attempting to immediately cast again |
| 14:05.46 | Shirik|Ecole | says out of range |
| 14:05.48 | Legorol | if you already started casting, the range isn't enforced that strictly |
| 14:05.59 | Legorol | but there is better evidence |
| 14:06.09 | Legorol | as a tank, here is my experience: |
| 14:06.10 | End | it gives very strict range checking on cast start, and loose range checking on cast finish |
| 14:06.20 | Legorol | mob starts moving towards healer |
| 14:06.25 | Legorol | i taunt/shield slam/whatever |
| 14:06.39 | Legorol | on my screen mob carries on towards healer, and was possibly even out of range already when i hit my button |
| 14:06.47 | Legorol | then a second later it "snaps back" to me |
| 14:07.00 | Legorol | it's great fun, playing like a rubber band with the mob |
| 14:07.23 | Legorol | it makes Curator fight easier, where i'm the tank responsible for catching adds |
| 14:07.28 | Legorol | anyhoo |
| 14:07.42 | Legorol | i still think this could be exploited for PvP |
| 14:07.49 | Legorol | and, time to check if server is back up |
| 14:07.56 | End | I agree, it probably could be. |
| 14:08.03 | End | laggy rogues are the worst though :P |
| 14:08.05 | krka | from time synching to pvp abuse |
| 14:08.07 | krka | i like it |
| 14:08.15 | zenzelezz | Legorol: you have a tank catching adds on Curator? |
| 14:08.25 | Legorol | to no big surprise, Silvvermoon isn't up :/ |
| 14:08.29 | Legorol | zenzelezz: yes |
| 14:08.35 | Legorol | i know it sounds strange |
| 14:08.52 | Legorol | but we found that to work the best for us |
| 14:08.52 | zenzelezz | interesting... my (previous) guild just had MT, zomg-arcane-soak-tank, and the DPS handled the adds |
| 14:08.59 | zenzelezz | whatever works, of course :) |
| 14:09.02 | End | I thought those mobs weren't tauntable |
| 14:09.06 | Legorol | they aren't |
| 14:09.10 | End | ah |
| 14:09.14 | Legorol | i do burst-threat-generation |
| 14:09.17 | Legorol | open with a shield slam |
| 14:09.25 | Legorol | they stick to me like fly to gluepaper |
| 14:09.34 | Legorol | or whatever the saying is |
| 14:09.49 | Legorol | zenzelezz: it's got a simple reason actually, our dps is split between melee and ranged |
| 14:09.53 | Legorol | plus healers can pull aggro too |
| 14:09.55 | End | curious, who/what do you have taking the hateful bolts (or whatever they are called)? |
| 14:10.08 | Legorol | unless i catch and hold the adds in place, both our melee and ranged dps is severely impacted |
| 14:10.23 | Legorol | we can't just simply "nuke it" like the guides suggest |
| 14:10.41 | Legorol | yeah we have a bolt tank, usually a warlock |
| 14:10.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cide (i=Cide@90-224-124-216-no117.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 14:10.44 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 14:11.01 | End | melee would definitely have issues with adds running around |
| 14:11.15 | End | I'm not entirely sure why your ranged would, but meh, whatever |
| 14:11.16 | Legorol | We have two main issues: ranged dps might pull aggro, healers might pull aggro |
| 14:11.18 | zenzelezz | Legorol: I'm not saying you way is wrong =) |
| 14:11.22 | Legorol | i know |
| 14:11.30 | Legorol | i am just explaining why we do it, so maybe others find it useful |
| 14:11.33 | zenzelezz | we usually have two rogues that chase the adds while the ranged DPS also focus on them |
| 14:11.39 | Legorol | the first one reduces the ranged dps, the second the melee dps (as they have to run) |
| 14:11.48 | Pac2722 | hi ppl can some1 tell me where is the best place to put my talent points im a 27 humen lock? |
| 14:11.51 | Legorol | zenzelezz: does your ranged dps not pull aggro? |
| 14:12.11 | Legorol | Pac2722: sorry this isn't exactly that kind of channel, but there might be someone who can help |
| 14:12.27 | Shirik|Ecole | reroll BE :P |
| 14:12.33 | End | for my guild, we "nuke" them down as it were :P |
| 14:12.52 | zenzelezz | Legorol: on the adds? Yes, but they die fairly fast anyway |
| 14:12.58 | End | sure, a dpser pulls aggro, but its likely another dpser will pull it off of him, and then the mob dies anyways |
| 14:13.00 | zenzelezz | the adds, not the ranged |
| 14:13.20 | Legorol | right, and this is what i am saying |
| 14:13.25 | Shirik|Ecole | you're talking about the curator adds? |
| 14:13.29 | Legorol | for us, we jsut have enough dps, with melee and all ranged combined, to keep them down |
| 14:13.32 | Legorol | yes, Curator adds |
| 14:13.33 | Corrodias | our problem was not having enough dps and not having enough mana |
| 14:13.36 | Shirik|Ecole | yeah, we don't even tank them |
| 14:13.41 | Legorol | so if one of the ranged pulls aggro, we start falling behind |
| 14:13.45 | Shirik|Ecole | we just destroy them |
| 14:13.51 | Corrodias | if we put on arcane resistance gear, the dps fell too low |
| 14:13.52 | Legorol | yup, that's what most guilds do, i know |
| 14:13.56 | foxlit | They can't be tanked anyway? |
| 14:14.00 | Legorol | yes they can |
| 14:14.02 | Legorol | very well in fact |
| 14:14.05 | foxlit | Just seem to like staying on healers for pathetic damage |
| 14:14.05 | End | they can't be taunted |
| 14:14.06 | Legorol | i nkow because i'm doing it :o) |
| 14:14.09 | End | key difference :P |
| 14:14.12 | Legorol | yes |
| 14:14.18 | [dRaCo] | as lvl 27 it's pretty much... well, just click anything and you'll be fine o0 |
| 14:14.21 | End | a lot of bosses can't be taunted, but they are definitely tankable ;p |
| 14:14.26 | Legorol | lot of people don't know the difference between the two |
| 14:14.28 | Corrodias | it isn't pathetic damage if they don't have arcane resistance |
| 14:14.39 | Legorol | well anyway, the point is: |
| 14:14.43 | zenzelezz | the only person with arcane resist for us is the off-tank |
| 14:14.47 | Legorol | almost all guilds i know have enough dps to just "nuke it" |
| 14:14.48 | Legorol | we don't |
| 14:14.54 | Legorol | so we have to maximize our dps every way we can |
| 14:14.59 | foxlit | meh, quit tanking and do dps! |
| 14:15.05 | End | lol |
| 14:15.05 | Legorol | and one way is to make it goddamn sure it stays in place |
| 14:15.10 | foxlit | They do pathetic damage anyway, might as well be on whoever |
| 14:15.22 | Legorol | foxlit: not true |
| 14:15.25 | End | well, there's melee to think of ;p |
| 14:15.27 | Legorol | if it goes for the hunter, we lose a lot of dps |
| 14:15.33 | Legorol | if it stays on a melee, fine |
| 14:15.37 | End | our hunters suck :( |
| 14:15.37 | Legorol | but if hunter pulls it, not fine |
| 14:15.40 | Corrodias | isn't it 700 damage per tick? |
| 14:15.42 | Corrodias | to 3 people? |
| 14:15.42 | Legorol | our hunters are uber |
| 14:15.48 | foxlit | Bah, hunters |
| 14:15.51 | Legorol | we don't care about the arcane damage from them |
| 14:15.53 | foxlit | Reroll casters already! |
| 14:15.56 | Legorol | our healers rock |
| 14:16.23 | Legorol | plus, there is an extra factor to consider: |
| 14:16.32 | Legorol | being fairly casual, we can't just optimize a raid group for an encounter |
| 14:16.38 | Legorol | we often have to take who we have and work with that |
| 14:16.43 | End | oddly enough, our top dps is often a moonkin druid though. mages/warlocks/rogues tend to make up the bulk of our damage though |
| 14:16.56 | End | hunters are usually pretty low :( |
| 14:17.07 | Legorol | anyway, it works for us, so we'll probably stick with it for now |
| 14:17.08 | End | misdirection is pretty awesome though |
| 14:17.18 | Legorol | especially since we are taking two tanks anyway, might as well use one to tank the adds |
| 14:17.30 | Legorol | we have tried with me doing dps instead, and it actually went worse |
| 14:17.31 | cladhaire | how difficult would it be to alter the basic loot frame? |
| 14:17.37 | cladhaire | adding a button, or a fontstring or so |
| 14:17.44 | wobin | cladhaire: have a look at xloot? |
| 14:17.46 | Legorol | the problem was that i wouldn't add enough to the dps to compensate for the add running rampant |
| 14:17.47 | foxlit | Probably not very? |
| 14:17.56 | wobin | I'd say fairly easy? |
| 14:18.00 | cladhaire | wobin: Xloot does so much =/ |
| 14:18.08 | wobin | yeah, but it can be cut down =) |
| 14:18.20 | Legorol | ok sorry about that guys, i will step out of way to let you get back to more sensible topics |
| 14:18.30 | foxlit | Question: |
| 14:18.32 | wobin | I liked it for the [link to all] button |
| 14:18.33 | Legorol | gief silvermoon! |
| 14:18.35 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:18.35 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:18.35 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:18.43 | foxlit | (evil codepasting bastard that I am) |
| 14:18.49 | Shirik|Ecole | evil! |
| 14:18.50 | End | answer: |
| 14:18.51 | Mikk | End: our top hunter does 1050 dps sustained |
| 14:18.51 | Legorol | what's th question? |
| 14:18.51 | End | pie |
| 14:18.52 | Shirik|Ecole | um |
| 14:18.53 | Shirik|Ecole | what's that? |
| 14:18.55 | foxlit | Is there a point in checking that carry < RADIX? |
| 14:19.18 | foxlit | Or is the speed benefit on that negligible compared to % and floored division? |
| 14:19.18 | End | Mikk: our hunters need to learn from your hunters or something |
| 14:19.33 | Mikk | End: Spec BM, get rogue leather, stick a VTing shadowpriest in their group. Win. |
| 14:19.52 | End | actually, come to think of it, one of our hunters tried BM last night |
| 14:20.00 | Shirik|Ecole | Everyone keeps telling me to go BM... |
| 14:20.02 | Shirik|Ecole | I refuse >.> |
| 14:20.02 | End | he said his damage was significantly better |
| 14:20.12 | Mikk | It is. BM is win for raidspec now. |
| 14:20.19 | Mikk | If you get the shot rotations in right ofc |
| 14:20.34 | Corrodias | we have two marksman hunters. they're decent in a 5-man, but as a druid tank i outdamage them |
| 14:20.36 | Shirik|Ecole | I've never been the one to follow the "standard" |
| 14:20.48 | Corrodias | i HOPE their pets were not being counted in the damage meters and that they were doing something |
| 14:20.49 | Shirik|Ecole | Corrodias: You forget, most hunters are morons |
| 14:20.52 | wobin | Shirik|Ecole: Go survival =) |
| 14:20.54 | Shirik|Ecole | no their pets don't count |
| 14:20.58 | Shirik|Ecole | wobin: I was for a while :) |
| 14:21.10 | Mikk | Survival is seriously kickass for heroics tho |
| 14:21.13 | Shirik|Ecole | But in all seriousness though |
| 14:21.14 | Mikk | Double-trapping mobs and shit |
| 14:21.24 | Shirik|Ecole | the one thing hunters aren't doing right |
| 14:21.27 | Shirik|Ecole | is getting intellect |
| 14:21.30 | Shirik|Ecole | and without intellect, MM sucks |
| 14:21.39 | Shirik|Ecole | My intellect rivals my agility |
| 14:21.44 | Corrodias | i've suggested BM to them, but at least one of them likes scattershot too much to change |
| 14:21.45 | Shirik|Ecole | and my DPS rises because of it |
| 14:21.46 | Mikk | Go BM and forget intellect. |
| 14:21.47 | Mikk | Rogue leather ftw |
| 14:21.56 | Shirik|Ecole | .. |
| 14:22.10 | Corrodias | if Shirik can perform with the spec he likes, don't go hatin' |
| 14:22.27 | zenzelezz | who said we're hating? |
| 14:22.28 | Mikk | Define perform. 500 dps vs 1000? =P |
| 14:22.30 | Shirik|Ecole | they're not :P |
| 14:22.40 | End | intellect due to the carful aim talent? |
| 14:22.47 | Shirik|Ecole | that's one of the many reasons |
| 14:23.08 | End | oh, wow, compat expierance is nice too |
| 14:23.16 | End | I can see why stacking a lot of int would help |
| 14:23.19 | foxlit | "Retrieving character list" gets boring |
| 14:23.48 | Shirik|Ecole | intellect also helps AotV, (which of course doesn't matter depending on spec, but MM boosts your intellect which in turn helps AotV) |
| 14:24.17 | Shirik|Ecole | which is another problem with hunters, they're still convinced that AotH > AotV |
| 14:24.29 | Shirik|Ecole | which is true only half the time |
| 14:25.05 | wobin | viper is mana regen? |
| 14:25.09 | Corrodias | yes |
| 14:25.12 | End | isn't it best to switch off or something? |
| 14:25.28 | End | or is it too costly to switch aspects? |
| 14:25.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge thrice|tubrick` (i=tubrick@dsl-aur-fe90dd00-79.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:25.36 | Corrodias | -if- you can pump out all your shots and still gain mana (and you'd have to have a lot of +mana/5), then sure |
| 14:26.04 | Shirik|Ecole | I don't bother to switch aspects mid-fight |
| 14:26.13 | Shirik|Ecole | the only time I do that is if I incorrectly thought I'd have enough mana and was using AotH |
| 14:26.19 | Shirik|Ecole | usually at about 20% mana I'll switch to AotV |
| 14:26.37 | Shirik|Ecole | It doesn't really cost mana (40 mana I think?) but it can screw up 5SR |
| 14:27.32 | Shirik|Ecole | wtf is with trump and o'donnel |
| 14:27.37 | Shirik|Ecole | why do they hate each other so much |
| 14:27.45 | Shirik|Ecole | every time I look at the news those two are yelling at each other |
| 14:28.02 | cladhaire | lol |
| 14:28.34 | Shirik|Ecole | btw, I am considering moving a few points into BM |
| 14:28.40 | Shirik|Ecole | but only 5, for improved AotH |
| 14:29.28 | wobin | I want 5 more talent points =P |
| 14:29.43 | wobin | wtb [start gaining points at level 5] |
| 14:30.25 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Srosh (n=Srosh@d019026.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 14:30.38 | cladhaire | hrm |
| 14:30.50 | cladhaire | i need something that'll let me open the loot frame easy |
| 14:30.52 | cladhaire | perhaps a chest |
| 14:30.54 | cladhaire | that i dont actually loot |
| 14:30.55 | cladhaire | or a clam |
| 14:30.58 | cladhaire | that's the ticket =) |
| 14:31.32 | Shirik|Ecole | go around killing boars in IF :P |
| 14:31.33 | nevcairiel | just kill some lvl 3 boars |
| 14:31.35 | nevcairiel | :P |
| 14:32.04 | Shirik|Ecole | http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=VxZVVVRVzGestMh0h what I'm considering |
| 14:32.08 | Shirik|Ecole | but I don't know where to put the last point |
| 14:32.42 | nevcairiel | i always expect addon authors to play a more "intelligent" class somehow.. |
| 14:32.45 | Aella | Humanoid Slaying? |
| 14:33.05 | Shirik|Ecole | oh yeah, forgot I didn't max that out >< |
| 14:33.09 | Shirik|Ecole | nevcairiel: I play a priest too :( |
| 14:33.20 | nevcairiel | ah you saved yourself |
| 14:33.40 | Shirik|Ecole | and I am absolutely astounded at how powerful BE priests can be |
| 14:33.43 | sysrage | priests are more intelligent than huntards? |
| 14:33.58 | foxlit | news at 7! |
| 14:34.03 | nevcairiel | not generally, but sometimes |
| 14:34.03 | Shirik|Ecole | between mana tap, consume magic, inner focus, clearcasting, mana pot |
| 14:34.06 | Shirik|Ecole | what have I missed |
| 14:34.17 | Shirik|Ecole | think that's it |
| 14:34.24 | Shirik|Ecole | but anyway I find myself never running out of mana |
| 14:34.32 | sysrage | every class can be played either intelligently or like a moron |
| 14:34.37 | foxlit | You know who else felt that way? |
| 14:34.42 | foxlit | Paladins! |
| 14:34.45 | Shirik|Ecole | ha |
| 14:34.59 | Shirik|Ecole | I'm annoyed that nobody uses priests for healing anymore though |
| 14:35.03 | Shirik|Ecole | nobody is an exaggeration but |
| 14:35.09 | Shirik|Ecole | paladins seem to be the healer of choice as of late |
| 14:35.16 | nevcairiel | we generally take 2 holy priests on raids |
| 14:35.19 | sysrage | not in the groups i run with |
| 14:35.23 | Shirik|Ecole | anyway, priest: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Drenden&n=Kimina |
| 14:35.30 | foxlit | Lots of incompetent priests around, though |
| 14:35.34 | zenzelezz | I had a fun Shadow Labs the other day; me tanking, one holy priests, two shadow priests (and some noob hunter - not dissing hunters, he just sucked) |
| 14:35.42 | Pac2722 | if i make a acc with a guest pass is that a nod that makes it this it's a full acc? |
| 14:35.45 | zenzelezz | was better CC than mage/rogue O_O |
| 14:35.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge drc|away (i=drc@p5485BAAC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:36.12 | nevcairiel | yesterday on karatresh kill 3 druids, 3 pallys, 1 priest, 1 shamana as healers .. we wouldve taken another priest, but he had connection issues and was replaced by a druid :P |
| 14:36.24 | Shirik|Ecole | my guild's group 1 (not my group) never runs with a holy priest |
| 14:36.29 | Shirik|Ecole | they have two shadow priest and two holy pallies |
| 14:36.29 | cladhaire | all huntards have misdiredt, right? |
| 14:36.32 | Shirik|Ecole | hahaha |
| 14:36.33 | nevcairiel | yup |
| 14:36.34 | Shirik|Ecole | well um |
| 14:36.37 | Shirik|Ecole | hopefully |
| 14:36.42 | nevcairiel | its a trainer spell |
| 14:36.46 | nevcairiel | so hopefully, yes |
| 14:36.50 | Shirik|Ecole | I sadly know many hunters who never trained it because it "wasn't worth it" |
| 14:36.56 | Shirik|Ecole | I then /ignored them |
| 14:36.59 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 14:37.21 | End | how is it not worth it? |
| 14:37.29 | Shirik|Ecole | this is why I /ignored |
| 14:37.31 | cladhaire | this hunter is just social pulling SL |
| 14:37.37 | cladhaire | just an arcane shot |
| 14:37.43 | Shirik|Ecole | heh |
| 14:37.47 | nevcairiel | old-skool pulling, heh |
| 14:37.48 | Shirik|Ecole | my rank one arcane shot used to crit for 1k |
| 14:38.00 | Shirik|Ecole | I couldn't pull with that at all |
| 14:38.14 | Shirik|Ecole | so I started pulling with scorpid sting |
| 14:38.22 | End | well, misdirect -does- have a cooldown, and is best saved for tricky or boss fights :P |
| 14:38.38 | nevcairiel | whats the cd? 2 minutes? |
| 14:38.40 | Shirik|Ecole | yeah |
| 14:38.42 | End | I think so |
| 14:38.43 | cladhaire | it can be used every single pull |
| 14:38.43 | nevcairiel | thats like nothing |
| 14:38.44 | cladhaire | in SL |
| 14:38.48 | cladhaire | and should be |
| 14:39.05 | Shirik|Ecole | I like to aimed shot pull |
| 14:39.08 | Shirik|Ecole | misdirection of course |
| 14:39.15 | End | yeah, I guess there the pulls are pretty long :P |
| 14:39.15 | Shirik|Ecole | it lets me skyrocket on damage meters |
| 14:39.20 | Shirik|Ecole | especially when I have rapid killing up |
| 14:39.52 | End | I've had a few dps intensive groups that just tore through the groups though o_O |
| 14:41.04 | Shirik|Ecole | cladhaire: Look at my priest's build and tell me what you think |
| 14:41.05 | Shirik|Ecole | um... ignore the one talent I accidentally clicked >< |
| 14:41.05 | cladhaire | link? |
| 14:41.05 | End | lol |
| 14:41.09 | Shirik|Ecole | http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#character-talents.xml?r=Drenden&n=Kimina |
| 14:41.10 | cladhaire | i told you i spec'd 51 points disc once |
| 14:41.15 | cladhaire | becuse i forgot i wasn't on the PTR |
| 14:41.36 | Shirik|Ecole | rofl |
| 14:41.36 | End | lol |
| 14:41.45 | Shirik|Ecole | I'm thinking about getting rid of mental strength too |
| 14:41.54 | Shirik|Ecole | I put one point in there and then was like "meh, I don't think that's really worth it" |
| 14:42.09 | cladhaire | that link doesn't work fo rme. |
| 14:42.17 | Shirik|Ecole | :( |
| 14:42.18 | Shirik|Ecole | sec |
| 14:42.19 | Aella | http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-talents.xml?r=Drenden&n=Kimina |
| 14:42.19 | End | worksforme |
| 14:42.30 | Aella | Stupid #. |
| 14:42.31 | cladhaire | there we go |
| 14:42.33 | Shirik|Ecole | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priest/talents.html?501230013050112000000235050030210130520000000000000000000000000 |
| 14:42.33 | Shirik|Ecole | ? |
| 14:42.40 | Shirik|Ecole | Aella: I didn't put the # there :( |
| 14:42.50 | Aella | I know, but it still messes stuff up. |
| 14:42.56 | End | yeah, it does |
| 14:43.24 | Shirik|Ecole | the one in searing light should be in improved healing |
| 14:43.35 | cladhaire | yeah mental strength is lol |
| 14:43.50 | Shirik|Ecole | yeah after actually doing the math I was like ".. why" |
| 14:44.41 | cladhaire | http://orange44.blogspot.com/2007/05/idiots-guide-to-scripps-national.html |
| 14:45.11 | Shirik|Ecole | what about healing prayers? |
| 14:45.16 | Shirik|Ecole | considering this for prayer of mending when I get it |
| 14:45.24 | cladhaire | its very good for pom |
| 14:45.32 | Shirik|Ecole | and I need to put 2 points in holy somewhere so I can reach empowered healing |
| 14:46.24 | Shirik|Ecole | anyway, off to test |
| 14:46.25 | Shirik|Ecole | take care |
| 14:46.29 | cladhaire | gl |
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| 15:28.46 | Thunder_Child | is there a new patch today? |
| 15:28.57 | Bleeter | yeah, small client side only patch |
| 15:29.07 | Bleeter | increase in build number, not version |
| 15:29.20 | Thunder_Child | huh...ok |
| 15:29.38 | foxlit | They killed server stability with whatever they did to the servers, though :P |
| 15:29.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Vangual (n=bah@84-72-114-69.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:29.52 | Bleeter | US seems fine.. I'd blame.. the Swiss ;) |
| 15:29.58 | Vangual | pfft |
| 15:30.07 | foxlit | It's the french, tbh |
| 15:30.14 | Bleeter | ok, Andorrans |
| 15:30.19 | Bleeter | can't be many of them in here |
| 15:30.20 | foxlit | pairs clusters are down :/ |
| 15:30.29 | foxlit | *paris |
| 15:30.38 | Vangual | strike again? |
| 15:31.41 | Vangual | i guess it's not so much of a "client side patch only" then |
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| 15:32.24 | zenzelezz | the client patch is unrelated to the server problems |
| 15:33.00 | foxlit | It _could_ be :) |
| 15:33.07 | Vangual | ofc, it's a client patch after all :) |
| 15:33.14 | snurre | its simply that they have encountered issues with getting the RACs back online properly.. not the patch's fault, but taking them down in the first place :p |
| 15:33.44 | Bleeter | fwiw, US had *no* downtime for the patch, sounds like a completely seperate issue to me |
| 15:33.46 | zenzelezz | foxlit: it would be quite a feat to make a "* Fixed a crash in the client." client patch to mess with the server |
| 15:33.47 | Cairenn | 2.1.0 (6729) |
| 15:33.58 | foxlit | Easy! |
| 15:33.59 | Vangual | bios batteries ran out, i bet :) |
| 15:34.06 | snurre | yes, the patch didnt require downtime.. EU had a scheduled maintenance regardless |
| 15:34.24 | foxlit | Force client to increase the volume of communication a bit in order to prevent it from losing sync... kill servers with increased traffic :P |
| 15:34.25 | Bleeter | crikey, i thought the US was behind the times |
| 15:34.33 | Bleeter | must suck to be in EU :P |
| 15:34.55 | zenzelezz | foxlit: possible, but I don't see how an increase in traffic would prevent a client crash |
| 15:35.21 | foxlit | In a sufficiently complex system, everything is possible :) |
| 15:35.35 | foxlit | Unlikely, though, you're right. |
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| 15:52.09 | foxlit | Is there a limit on the length of addon metadata fields? |
| 15:52.36 | cogwheel|work | probably nothing practical |
| 15:52.58 | cogwheel|work | I've seen ## Notes take up quite a bit of space in some mods... |
| 15:53.00 | wereHamster | Why o' why does Blizzard want to update Scan.dll with every patch? |
| 15:53.15 | cogwheel|work | wereHamster: don't they download a new one every time you start the game? |
| 15:53.48 | wereHamster | don't know.. I always set permissions to 0000 |
| 15:54.17 | cogwheel|work | that's what you get for going against the grain :P |
| 15:54.18 | wereHamster | because it takes ages to load WoW if it can access that file |
| 15:55.13 | nevcairiel | whats the point of the file if it works without it ? :o |
| 15:55.18 | End | whats the point of AddOns if you can play without them? |
| 15:55.21 | End | ;p |
| 15:55.30 | nevcairiel | thats not the same. |
| 15:55.43 | End | I'm not going to agree or disagree until I know what scan.dll actually does |
| 15:55.44 | nevcairiel | Scan.dll is their Warden basicly, right? |
| 15:55.47 | Vangual | blind hope that some os'es wil always grant access to files? :) |
| 15:55.57 | Vangual | most likely |
| 15:56.10 | wereHamster | warden is useless on linux anyway ;) |
| 15:56.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Useless? Nah |
| 15:56.42 | Vangual | yea but if you can avoid it being run by outside means (speak os permissions) and the game still starts, it's a bit.. useless |
| 15:57.28 | Vangual | same if you can keep running old versions of it |
| 15:58.40 | wereHamster | I know someone who plays under linux and hacks WoW (duping etc) but he's been thinking about hooking some functions to .. I won't tell now :P, but WoW would have no idea that he'd be hacking WoW |
| 15:59.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Zeal (n=zeal@host81-151-183-58.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:59.49 | Zeal | can anyone tell me how to convert the name of a table, to a string in lua? x_x; |
| 15:59.57 | Shirik | "name" of a table? |
| 16:00.10 | cogwheel|work | variables only have names if they're global |
| 16:00.10 | End | like...the global name? |
| 16:00.18 | Zeal | yes |
| 16:00.22 | End | ick |
| 16:00.32 | Shirik | that's.... really difficult, and it probably means you're going about something the wrong way |
| 16:00.35 | Shirik | what are you trying to do |
| 16:00.39 | Josh_Borke | Zeal: what are you trying to do |
| 16:00.41 | Josh_Borke | damnit Shirik |
| 16:00.44 | Shirik | I win :P |
| 16:00.45 | wereHamster | if someone has a libpcap application running (outside of wine) then WoW has no way to find out, too. Warden=useless is it can't access the whole system |
| 16:00.47 | foxlit | He's too fast! |
| 16:00.54 | Zeal | lol |
| 16:01.01 | cogwheel|work | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:01.13 | Josh_Borke | ^-- losar |
| 16:01.21 | Josh_Borke | /flex |
| 16:01.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge sergio_ (i=sp@unaffiliated/sergio) |
| 16:02.14 | foxlit | Direct answer is that you can do for k, v in pairs(_G) do if v == mytable then return k; end end |
| 16:02.18 | cogwheel|work | but if you REALLY want to: function GetTableName(var) for k, v in pairs(_G) do if v == var then return k end end |
| 16:02.26 | Shirik | cogwheel|work loses again!! |
| 16:02.30 | Vangual | wereHamster: there's only so much warden can do without becoming really nosey and start breaking stuff/triggering the gazillion antispyware virus scanners etc. It's a tough job |
| 16:02.34 | Josh_Borke | see, it must be trou |
| 16:02.44 | Josh_Borke | you mean work, right cog? |
| 16:02.49 | Josh_Borke | ;-P |
| 16:02.49 | cogwheel|work | woit... i didn't lose the first time... |
| 16:02.52 | Shirik | that's what he does at work |
| 16:02.52 | cogwheel|work | s/o/a/ |
| 16:03.08 | Zeal | ok, i have a table, with names of frames i need to cycle through. as i cycle throguh the table, i want to be able to take that frame's name, convert it to a string, and then append soem text to the end of it. but also i still need that frame, not a a string i nthe same operation. |
| 16:03.10 | Josh_Borke | purl, cogwheel|work++ |
| 16:03.11 | foxlit | But the likelyhood of anyone actually wanting _that_ is rather low, so what did you want originally? :) |
| 16:03.19 | Zeal | hm.. get table name.. thanks cogwheel|work |
| 16:03.26 | Josh_Borke | Zeal: frames are not tables |
| 16:03.30 | Shirik | Zeal: Frames are not tables |
| 16:03.31 | Shirik | Bah! |
| 16:03.34 | Zeal | according to lua they are.. |
| 16:03.35 | Josh_Borke | Zeal: if the frame is named, use frame:GetName() |
| 16:03.40 | Shirik | Well, they are |
| 16:03.41 | Shirik | but you wan |
| 16:03.43 | Shirik | forget it |
| 16:03.47 | Zeal | lol kk |
| 16:03.49 | pastamancer | userdata |
| 16:03.51 | cogwheel|work | Zeal: no, they're userdata |
| 16:03.53 | Shirik | Josh_Borke wins |
| 16:04.02 | Shirik | my frames are tables :P |
| 16:04.05 | Josh_Borke | Zeal: frames are tables with the 0'th index being a reference to the user data |
| 16:04.10 | End | the table is there just for the metatable |
| 16:04.26 | Shirik | frame.wnd is userdata :p |
| 16:04.32 | Zeal | yeah, means f'all to me. all i know is that when convert to a sting, frame names give a table reference. |
| 16:04.40 | Zeal | *to a string |
| 16:04.42 | Shirik | you want frame:GetName() |
| 16:04.47 | Josh_Borke | you want frame:GetName() |
| 16:04.48 | Zeal | ok, thanks. |
| 16:05.29 | Shirik | nbs-irc lies |
| 16:05.29 | Shirik | it says Josh_Borke is not a clone of me |
| 16:05.29 | End | yeah, :GetName() will run far far faster, and given something semimeaningful if it is only referenced as a local somewhere |
| 16:05.29 | Shirik | but it is quite evident |
| 16:05.42 | Josh_Borke | but it is quite evident |
| 16:05.48 | foxlit | Um, Zeal |
| 16:05.56 | foxlit | " have a table, with names of frames i need to cycle through. as i cycle throguh the table, i want to be able to take that frame's name, convert it to a string," |
| 16:06.14 | End | o_O |
| 16:06.16 | End | lol |
| 16:06.17 | foxlit | You have a table of frame names. You want to convert frame names to strings. What are you storing them as? |
| 16:06.33 | Shirik | ah this is an interesting point too |
| 16:06.44 | Josh_Borke | ah this is an interesting point too |
| 16:06.45 | Shirik | if you used t[frame:GetName()] = frame |
| 16:06.52 | Zeal | apprently, userdata. |
| 16:06.53 | Shirik | it would be easier to access down the road |
| 16:07.02 | Josh_Borke | if you used t[frame:GetName()] = frame |
| 16:07.07 | Shirik | Silence clone! |
| 16:07.08 | Josh_Borke | it would be easier to access down the road |
| 16:07.09 | End | are you storing the name of the frame? or te frame itself? |
| 16:07.11 | Josh_Borke | Silence clone! |
| 16:07.19 | Zeal | frame itself i beleive. |
| 16:07.24 | Shirik | ~lart Josh_Borke |
| 16:07.24 | purl | installs a bad bootloader on Josh_Borke and turns Josh_Borke into a brick |
| 16:07.29 | Josh_Borke | ~lart Shirik |
| 16:07.29 | purl | pushes the wall down onto Shirik whilst whistling innocently |
| 16:07.41 | End | okay, then what foxlit pointed out was more of a mistype than anything itself |
| 16:07.42 | Josh_Borke | lunch time bye |
| 16:07.47 | Shirik | take care |
| 16:07.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=gryphon@mail.alexdevco.com) |
| 16:07.52 | End | bah |
| 16:07.56 | End | else* |
| 16:07.57 | foxlit | You may just want to use frame names as strings? |
| 16:08.03 | End | I can't type either =( |
| 16:08.17 | Shirik | you can use the frame's name as the key if it helps |
| 16:08.29 | Shirik | it may be beneficial in the longrun depending on how you're creating these frames |
| 16:08.40 | Zeal | nope, cos i need to put it into things that want the frame, not a string. |
| 16:08.50 | Shirik | getglobal(framename) |
| 16:08.53 | Shirik | will give you the frame |
| 16:08.53 | foxlit | Get it from _G? |
| 16:09.19 | Zeal | i'm jsut muddling through atm, i'll post it for someone else to optimize later. i'm not an experienced coder. |
| 16:09.24 | foxlit | Cut my projected kitty-signature time to 800s of coroutine time :P |
| 16:10.05 | foxlit | local UpdateDummy = CreateFrame("FRAME") |
| 16:10.09 | foxlit | Any objections? |
| 16:10.31 | foxlit | (i.e. "No, foxlit, you can't create an unparented frame with no name and expect OnUpdate to work!") |
| 16:10.55 | Shirik | >>> CreateFrame = function(name) _G[name] = {GetName = function() return name; end}; return _G[name]; end; t = {}; t[1] = CreateFrame("foo"):GetName(); return getglobal(t[1]); |
| 16:10.55 | Cide | Shirik: { ["GetName"] = function: 00219620 } (#1) |
| 16:11.02 | Shirik | what an ugly example |
| 16:11.32 | Shirik | >>> setglobal |
| 16:11.32 | Cide | Shirik: function: 001AAA98 |
| 16:12.08 | Shirik | >>> CreateFrame = function(name) setglobal(name, {GetName = function() return name; end}); return _G[name]; end; t = {}; t[1] = CreateFrame("foo"):GetName(); return getglobal(t[1]); -- This may be more intuitive |
| 16:12.09 | Cide | Shirik: { ["GetName"] = function: 008FA1A8 } (#1) |
| 16:12.23 | End | foxlit: you won't get OnUpdate without showing the frame |
| 16:12.43 | foxlit | I'm assuming that frames, by default, are visible |
| 16:12.52 | End | hmm, probably |
| 16:12.57 | End | I think they are |
| 16:12.58 | Shirik | iirc they are, but it's been so long since I've tweaked the scheduler I forget >< |
| 16:13.19 | End | but beyond that, I see no issue |
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| 16:13.47 | foxlit | I actually have scheduler = CreateFrame("FRAME", nil, WorldFrame); elsewhere |
| 16:14.09 | foxlit | That (I would hope) works, so it's only a matter of whether an unparented frame is still a proper frame |
| 16:14.24 | Shirik | I don't see why it wouldn't be |
| 16:14.29 | End | well, I do "dummy" frames to catch events |
| 16:14.31 | Shirik | btw |
| 16:14.33 | End | and I never assign them parents |
| 16:14.34 | Shirik | CreateFrame("FRAME") |
| 16:14.37 | Shirik | is not unparented |
| 16:14.41 | foxlit | oh? |
| 16:14.44 | Shirik | its parent is UIParent |
| 16:14.51 | foxlit | That's... not good. |
| 16:14.53 | End | are you sure UIParent is the default parent? |
| 16:14.54 | Shirik | you have to explicitly state :SetParent(nil) |
| 16:15.03 | Shirik | yes, I've tested this ;) |
| 16:15.05 | End | odd... |
| 16:15.18 | End | maybe it was frames creaed in xml |
| 16:15.32 | Shirik | yeah I've only tested in Lua, it's all I ever create my frames in so |
| 16:15.35 | End | I've had issues with frames not respecting UIScale |
| 16:15.46 | End | which duh, it's not parented to UIParent |
| 16:15.55 | End | (also, the hide UI not hiding them too)P |
| 16:15.59 | End | (then it's really obvious!) |
| 16:16.02 | Shirik | to get it to ignore UIParent:Hide() and UIParent:SetScale() from a lua-created frame you'll have to do frame:SetParent(nil) |
| 16:16.29 | Shirik | I found all this out when I wanted to create a frame that ignores alt-z |
| 16:16.31 | End | odd though, that xml has no default parent, but lua does |
| 16:16.35 | Zeal | weird, wowwiki documentation says it defaults to the screen when no parent is set, and not UIParent :S |
| 16:16.47 | Shirik | let me double check |
| 16:16.48 | Zeal | in lua that is |
| 16:16.51 | Shirik | I'm 99% certain it's UIParent |
| 16:17.05 | Guillotine | any changes to the UI with the new mini-patch today? |
| 16:17.14 | cladhaire | Guillotine: no |
| 16:17.21 | Guillotine | cladhaire: alright, ty :) |
| 16:17.29 | cladhaire | Shirik: a parentless frame has no parent in lua |
| 16:17.31 | cladhaire | nil == CreateFrame("Frame"):GetParent() |
| 16:17.35 | Shirik | yes I just tried that -_- |
| 16:17.41 | Shirik | I don't know wtf I was doing a month ago then |
| 16:17.51 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 16:17.51 | End | inheriting from a virtual frame? |
| 16:17.51 | Shirik | so you're right foxlit I made all that up |
| 16:17.55 | End | which did define a parent? |
| 16:18.00 | Shirik | End: Nope :/ |
| 16:18.03 | End | I dunno then |
| 16:18.31 | Shirik | I have a feeling I triggered something in VFL that was trying to "correct" it |
| 16:18.33 | foxlit | Design a p2p communication protocol in WoW :) |
| 16:19.03 | foxlit | >>> string.byte("a") |
| 16:19.03 | Cide | foxlit: 97 |
| 16:19.07 | foxlit | >>> string.byte("È") |
| 16:19.07 | Cide | foxlit: 195 |
| 16:19.17 | Shirik | ? |
| 16:19.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaelten (n=kaelten@69.109.103.158) |
| 16:19.44 | foxlit | I was thinking about how to get code between clients. |
| 16:20.04 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 16:20.05 | nevcairiel | >>> "È" |
| 16:20.05 | foxlit | Easiest I could come up with is string.byte->hex->send->unhex->string.char |
| 16:20.05 | Cide | nevcairiel: "\195\136" |
| 16:20.14 | *** join/#wowi-lounge sioraiocht (n=rtharper@cpe-74-71-116-245.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 16:20.15 | Guillotine | foxlit: I was working on that. Its not that hard to do, its just not that efficient |
| 16:20.15 | End | lol |
| 16:20.50 | foxlit | Could probably up the transfer base to 64, but the bit-offset isn't nice to deal with |
| 16:21.04 | foxlit | >>> strlen("È") |
| 16:21.05 | Cide | foxlit: 2 |
| 16:21.18 | foxlit | >>> strlen("\195\136") |
| 16:21.18 | Cide | foxlit: 2 |
| 16:21.21 | Guillotine | foxlit: you also have to be careful with characters that will d/c you e.g. \124 |
| 16:21.41 | foxlit | But if I hexencode, I shouldn't have anything beyond alphanumerics :) |
| 16:21.44 | Shirik | yeah |
| 16:21.48 | Shirik | that's how I'd do it |
| 16:22.06 | Shirik | btw, does SendAddonMessage() DC you when you transmit a \124 ? |
| 16:22.09 | Shirik | (an invalid one) |
| 16:22.18 | End | probably not I'd expect |
| 16:22.19 | Shirik | or is it immune to those restrictions? |
| 16:22.21 | Guillotine | I don't know... |
| 16:22.25 | Guillotine | thats a good question |
| 16:22.33 | Guillotine | or \n? |
| 16:22.36 | Guillotine | or any of that |
| 16:22.43 | Shirik | Just thought of an issue where someone could DC a raid leader through RDX :/ |
| 16:22.52 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 16:22.53 | Shirik | time to test |
| 16:22.53 | foxlit | Mwhahaha, security! |
| 16:23.29 | Shirik | /script SendAddonMessage("\12412345\n\t", "GUILD") |
| 16:23.30 | Shirik | worked ok |
| 16:23.37 | Shirik | oops |
| 16:23.44 | Shirik | maybe bad choice of sequence |
| 16:23.55 | Shirik | also worked ok: /script SendAddonMessage("\124 12345\n\t", "GUILD") |
| 16:24.09 | foxlit | Um |
| 16:24.13 | foxlit | There's no channel on that? |
| 16:24.19 | Shirik | ah crap |
| 16:24.21 | End | toy mean PREFIX? |
| 16:24.22 | Shirik | forgot prefix -_- |
| 16:24.23 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 16:24.24 | End | you* |
| 16:24.26 | End | although |
| 16:24.36 | Shirik | This is what I get for being so used to RDX.EnqueueMessage() >.> |
| 16:24.45 | End | hmm |
| 16:24.52 | Shirik | ok how's /script SendAddonMessage("PFX", "\124 12345\n\t", "GUILD") |
| 16:24.56 | Shirik | that worked ok too |
| 16:25.12 | End | apparently it didn't used to work |
| 16:25.20 | End | wowwiki documents \n as disconnecting you |
| 16:25.26 | Nerinia | -> /run SendAddonMessage("test","|cff00ff00green","WHISPER","player") :-) |
| 16:25.37 | Shirik | DT picked up the message ok too |
| 16:25.56 | foxlit | So basically SendAddonMessage is literal now? |
| 16:26.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 16:26.13 | Shirik | Nerinia: You have to use \124 not | |
| 16:26.39 | Shirik | foxlit: It appears to be, I'm watching DT and it's satisfied with the messages |
| 16:26.47 | Nerinia | Yeah, just a test for the wow color and link tags |
| 16:26.48 | Shirik | when I ran Nerinia's of course it became || but switching it to \124 it was | |
| 16:27.02 | Nerinia | ah, i did strsub("|",1,1) |
| 16:27.12 | End | yeah, the chat editbox is silly |
| 16:27.21 | Shirik | well it's logical |
| 16:27.32 | Shirik | think of how many non-developers would be confused about how every time they wrote | it DCs them |
| 16:27.34 | Industrial | >>> a={'foo'} b=a a=nil print(tostring(b)) |
| 16:27.34 | Cide | Industrial: "table: 00172A88" |
| 16:27.38 | Industrial | win \o/ |
| 16:27.44 | End | you are right, even if I don't want to admit it :P |
| 16:28.13 | Shirik | so yeah it would appear SendAddonMessage() is literal, so I shall now go update wowwiki |
| 16:30.03 | Nerinia | That's cool |
| 16:30.07 | Zeal | hm.. does creatfrontstring return anything? ie the name? |
| 16:30.28 | Kaso | returns a reference to the fontstring |
| 16:30.32 | Zeal | cool |
| 16:31.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@208.104.156.29) |
| 16:32.29 | MentalPower | Shirik: you should check for invalid itemlinks |
| 16:32.31 | Shirik | I also lol @ the talk page for SendAddonMessage |
| 16:32.35 | MentalPower | I belive those will DC you |
| 16:32.38 | Shirik | MentalPower: interesting |
| 16:32.46 | Shirik | we shall try with martin thunder! |
| 16:32.52 | MentalPower | lol |
| 16:33.44 | Guillotine | Shirik: try just messing one up with the text. recently, martin thunder has been linkable on quite a few servers |
| 16:33.58 | Shirik | yeh I'm going to double check if it goes through if I can link it to GC |
| 16:34.05 | Shirik | I'm too lazy to make an invalid link :P |
| 16:34.10 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Lysistrata (n=yousuck@unaffiliated/lysistrata) |
| 16:34.15 | MentalPower | which one IS martin thunder, what ID? |
| 16:34.33 | Shirik | 192 |
| 16:34.46 | Shirik | damn it |
| 16:34.51 | Shirik | clicking that link DCed me |
| 16:34.54 | Shirik | thanks MentalPower |
| 16:35.00 | MentalPower | sorry :P |
| 16:35.09 | Shirik | anyway |
| 16:35.12 | Shirik | SendAddonMessage() didn't complain |
| 16:36.13 | Kaso | is that person on the talk page really saying "Disable Sendaddonmessage cos some people with badly coded mods might DC?" the anwser is simple, use decent mods. |
| 16:36.20 | Shirik | Kaso yeah :P |
| 16:36.22 | Shirik | I was liek |
| 16:36.27 | Shirik | I didn't even bother to respond |
| 16:37.12 | TC-Working | thanks cog, what i really needed to see was a site of half naked guys |
| 16:38.05 | Shirik | rofl |
| 16:38.08 | Kaso | I read this blog about Catalyst this perl web apps framework, and if you subsitute in "ace" it still makes perfect sense, i find it a amusing. |
| 16:38.09 | Shirik | I didn't bother to click the link |
| 16:38.10 | foxlit | There's an interesting effect, though |
| 16:38.11 | Shirik | glad I didn't |
| 16:38.20 | Shirik | Kaso: Show me! |
| 16:38.28 | *** join/#wowi-lounge PProvost (i=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 16:38.30 | Kaso | http://www.teambarry.com/?p=38 |
| 16:38.44 | Kaso | second paragraph, replace "MVC" with "ace" and "Web application" with "addon" |
| 16:39.01 | foxlit | Is there an incoming message limit before a client chokes? |
| 16:39.21 | Kaso | "I do know you can easily write bad code on top of <Ace> (I know I did at first). People get the impression that <Ace> is some sort of magical shield against bad design. It’s not. |
| 16:39.38 | foxlit | i.e. is it viable to request transfers from multiple people BT-style, relying that their collective up pipe is big enough to fit in your down pipe? |
| 16:40.44 | Kaso | Im not sure anyone would have ever tried that foxlit |
| 16:41.01 | Shirik | iirc, SendAddonMessage() follows the same chat limits as SendChatMessage() |
| 16:41.05 | Kaso | though i must say i have contemplated a BT style distribution network for our guild addon at one point |
| 16:41.07 | Shirik | i.e., sending too many addon messages will disconnect you |
| 16:41.10 | Kaso | but was lazy |
| 16:41.19 | Shirik | oh |
| 16:41.21 | Shirik | misread :) |
| 16:41.22 | foxlit | It's obvious that you have to throttle sending :) |
| 16:41.35 | foxlit | But do I have to place an upper limit on the number of people sendint to _me_? :) |
| 16:41.38 | Shirik | you're talking about something similar to a DDoS |
| 16:42.02 | Kaso | foxlit, try it out :> |
| 16:42.04 | Shirik | or are we not even talkinga bout WoW? |
| 16:42.07 | TC-Working | heh DDoS attacks in WoW |
| 16:42.09 | foxlit | Or any many-to-one communication :) |
| 16:42.13 | foxlit | It's WoW |
| 16:42.44 | TC-Working | the ultimate PVP spell "DDoS Attack" |
| 16:42.47 | foxlit | Specific scenario: "A: I want Grid" "B: It's 80KB, here's my 200 bytes / sec" "A: *snooze*" |
| 16:42.50 | Shirik | lol |
| 16:43.03 | Shirik | too bad there isn't a spacial SendAddonMessage() |
| 16:43.13 | Shirik | no way to get to the other faction |
| 16:43.17 | Shirik | you can only DDoS your allies :P |
| 16:43.23 | TC-Working | aw...:( |
| 16:43.29 | foxlit | Versus "A: I want Grid" "B: It's 80KB, here's my 200 bytes / sec" ... "ZZ: Here's my 200 bytes / sec as well!" "A: *zomg, lost connection*" |
| 16:43.33 | nevcairiel | ddos in yell channel! |
| 16:43.57 | Shirik | if you're successful at disconnecting them you'll also disconnect yourself |
| 16:43.57 | foxlit | kill everyone! |
| 16:44.00 | Shirik | you would have to be well spread out |
| 16:44.07 | Shirik | so that you would only recieve half the messages |
| 16:44.09 | Shirik | while they receive all |
| 16:44.16 | nevcairiel | you know what sucks, thatr you cannot /ignore opposite faction, our horde players always spam-yell in shatt :( |
| 16:44.24 | Kaso | nevcairiel, you cant? |
| 16:44.24 | Shirik | you can't? |
| 16:44.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=MoonWolf@89.98.118.158) |
| 16:44.27 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v MoonWolf] by ChanServ |
| 16:44.28 | nevcairiel | i tried |
| 16:44.29 | Shirik | I'm pretty sure I have |
| 16:44.33 | nevcairiel | and it didnt appear in my ignore list |
| 16:44.37 | Shirik | someone kept /flirt ing with me :/ |
| 16:44.40 | Kaso | you used to be able to at least. |
| 16:45.05 | nevcairiel | maybe it ignores them, but does not list on ignore panel |
| 16:47.16 | Shirik | I'm amazed |
| 16:47.23 | Shirik | I can't even give away primal might transmutes right now >.> |
| 16:47.37 | foxlit | farmers leveled to 70 |
| 16:48.37 | Kaso | Shirik, the one thing thats always annoyed me about alchemy, and the tbc specicilisations/discoveries made it worse; the fact you cant make any money off it, ever |
| 16:48.49 | Shirik | well I figure |
| 16:48.56 | Shirik | I'm a priest, I'm gonna be using a ton of pots |
| 16:49.03 | Shirik | either make them myself or I'll be paying a lot of money |
| 16:49.19 | Shirik | tbh I just want to do the transmute for the skill |
| 16:49.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaelten (n=kaelten@69.109.103.158) |
| 16:49.26 | Guillotine | anybody willing to do me a HUGE favor and take a look at http://guillotine.pastey.net/44958 and tell me what I did wrong with my dropdown box? Do they not work when the frame is created dynamically? |
| 16:50.40 | foxlit | for entry in HelpLib.links do |
| 16:50.59 | foxlit | Unless .links is an iterator function, you're missing pairs() |
| 16:51.14 | foxlit | Scratch that; you _are_ missing pairs |
| 16:51.56 | Guillotine | oh, thanks. the problem is that HelpLib.LinkDropDown_Initialize is never called though |
| 16:52.09 | foxlit | Well |
| 16:52.11 | Guillotine | though that would have come up eventually |
| 16:52.20 | Shirik | well with that error |
| 16:52.23 | Shirik | the function never exists |
| 16:52.33 | foxlit | True, btw. |
| 16:52.41 | foxlit | When you call _Initialize, the function name is nil |
| 16:52.48 | Shirik | ALSO |
| 16:52.50 | Shirik | yeah |
| 16:52.51 | Shirik | UIDropDownMenu_Initialize(HelpLibLinkFrame, HelpLib.LinkDropDown_Initialize); |
| 16:52.55 | Shirik | needs to be after you define the function |
| 16:53.02 | Guillotine | ahhhh |
| 16:53.12 | Guillotine | whoops, didn't notice >< |
| 16:53.28 | foxlit | It should really whine at you if you do that |
| 16:53.39 | Shirik | meh, it's kinda like what I do |
| 16:53.42 | foxlit | But I don't think it does |
| 16:53.46 | cladhaire | it won't |
| 16:53.51 | cladhaire | so set a metatable on the global environment |
| 16:53.53 | Shirik | some functions I have that take functions as parameters, if it's nil, it just replaces it with function() end |
| 16:54.06 | cladhaire | err |
| 16:54.09 | cladhaire | wrong window |
| 16:54.10 | cladhaire | lol |
| 16:54.15 | Shirik | yeah I was like |
| 16:54.17 | Shirik | .. huh? |
| 16:54.40 | foxlit | Any __index call is a miss! |
| 16:54.54 | foxlit | must have food. |
| 16:55.12 | Shirik | 0xF00D |
| 16:56.11 | TC-Working | ~whaleslap Shirik |
| 16:56.50 | purl | ACTION beats Shirik upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 16:56.51 | Shirik | :( |
| 16:56.51 | TC-Working | or not.... |
| 16:56.51 | cogwheel|work | ~botsmack |
| 16:57.56 | purl | OWW! |
| 16:58.04 | TC-Working | wow....purl must have been on a smake break |
| 16:58.04 | TC-Working | s/smake/smoke/ |
| 16:58.04 | Shirik | hehe |
| 16:58.21 | Shirik | purl, ping |
| 16:58.44 | purl | pong |
| 16:58.58 | Guillotine | dammit. stupid Relentless Earthstorm Diamond. I bought it off the AH for 150g only to realize its a vendored one (shouldn't be blue) that requires exalted with consortium -_- |
| 16:59.12 | Shadowed | oops? =p |
| 16:59.13 | TC-Working | wow 23 sec delay FTL |
| 17:00.04 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ravagernl (n=chatzill@85.148.20.110) |
| 17:01.08 | Shirik | ~poke Tem |
| 17:01.11 | purl | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind Tem, pokes Tem repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 17:01.30 | TC-Working | 4 sec delay, much better |
| 17:05.30 | Cairenn | yes, I already know and have informed dolby-wowi_ |
| 17:05.47 | Shirik | ? |
| 17:07.51 | TC-Working | Cairenn? |
| 17:08.19 | Cairenn | ask yourselves, what would lead me to a comment like that? |
| 17:08.43 | cogwheel|work | complaints about purl? |
| 17:08.51 | zenzelezz | why does the EU armory always tell me an error has occured when I try to view a guild list |
| 17:08.57 | Cairenn | the site is down :p |
| 17:09.00 | Shirik | oh |
| 17:09.09 | TC-Working | we were talking about purl, not wowi |
| 17:09.11 | Shirik | it works for me :/ |
| 17:09.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge krka (n=krka@c83-250-203-119.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 17:09.20 | Shirik | yeah we were talking about purl :P |
| 17:10.17 | Cairenn | it works for you? |
| 17:10.21 | Shirik | yar |
| 17:10.27 | Cairenn | ah, nm, it's back up now |
| 17:10.36 | Cairenn | or not |
| 17:10.40 | TC-Working | not for me |
| 17:10.47 | TC-Working | "There seems to have been a slight problem with the database." |
| 17:10.48 | Shirik | oks |
| 17:10.52 | Shirik | NOW it doesn't work :P |
| 17:11.09 | cogwheel|work | It didn't stop working for me until after you said something to dolby-wowi_ :P |
| 17:11.11 | TC-Working | hehe the tech staff link is mailto: |
| 17:11.25 | TC-Working | thats one hard working tech staff |
| 17:15.20 | Shirik | why is it every time I try to log onto MSN |
| 17:15.27 | Shirik | "The service is temporarily unavailable" |
| 17:15.43 | Shirik | might as well save some bandwidth and say "The service is temporarily available" every time you successfully log in |
| 17:19.27 | Tem | Shirik, hmm? |
| 17:20.31 | zenzelezz | MSN works fine for me |
| 17:21.15 | Shirik | "Signing in to .NET Messenger Service failed because the service is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later." |
| 17:21.37 | Shirik | http://status.messenger.msn.com/Status.aspx?product=wm |
| 17:21.42 | Shirik | Sign In |
| 17:21.43 | Shirik | The .NET Messenger Service is temporarily experiencing difficulty. You may be unable to sign in. Please try again later. |
| 17:21.43 | Shirik | Last Update: 5/30/2007 9:51:00 AM Pacific Time (GMT -8:00) |
| 17:22.43 | Cairenn | site's back |
| 17:22.55 | Shirik | <3 dolby-wowi_/Cairenn |
| 17:24.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Seerah_ (n=chatzill@adsl-21-195-214.mem.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:29.11 | TC-Working | <3 sleep |
| 17:31.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tuller (n=chatzill@c-76-27-166-119.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 17:36.25 | Guillotine | has anybody else noticed that the ads on all the UI websites? (at least WoWI, curse, and worldofwar) seem to be getting more and more risque? |
| 17:36.38 | Shirik | risque? |
| 17:36.40 | Osagasu | All ads are doing that |
| 17:36.43 | Guillotine | s/websites?/websites |
| 17:36.50 | Osagasu | True is taking over, unfortunately. |
| 17:37.10 | foxlit_ | Nothing gets past hosts! |
| 17:37.20 | Guillotine | not just that. the new one with the "Want to see more?" thing |
| 17:37.27 | Guillotine | its practically porn :P |
| 17:40.54 | TC-Working | different between practicaly and actualy |
| 17:41.06 | TC-Working | difference* |
| 17:42.31 | sysrage | cairenn loves teh pr0n |
| 17:42.46 | Cairenn | Actually, not really - I hate those ads |
| 17:42.51 | sysrage | heh |
| 17:43.00 | sysrage | purl, hug cairenn |
| 17:43.19 | purl | ACTION jumps into cairenn's lap and huggles and *hugs* cairenn |
| 17:43.19 | Guillotine | ya, it sucks. so hard to control what ads actually get on :/ they always find ways around it |
| 17:43.19 | cogwheel|work | Ads? what ads? |
| 17:43.23 | Guillotine | but yay for Adblock! |
| 17:43.24 | cogwheel|work | <.< |
| 17:43.35 | TC-Working | yep adblock :) |
| 17:43.36 | krka | how do you find the pr0n ads? :( |
| 17:43.42 | sysrage | hah |
| 17:43.44 | Guillotine | in general, I don't block ads since I want to support the sites I visit, but I do block the really annoying ones |
| 17:43.45 | TC-Working | go to porn sites |
| 17:43.46 | sysrage | krka feels left out |
| 17:44.07 | Cairenn | well, and the unfortunate fact is that those ads pay significantly better than the others =/ |
| 17:44.15 | Cairenn | as I had pointed out to me |
| 17:44.24 | foxlit_ | I don't block original, well-done ads |
| 17:44.27 | Shirik | unfortunately that's how many of those things work |
| 17:44.30 | Guillotine | ah |
| 17:44.32 | krka | is it the top ad on wowi? |
| 17:44.37 | foxlit_ | Stuff like penny arcade ads :P |
| 17:44.38 | Guillotine | krka: ya |
| 17:44.46 | krka | hm, seems to be localized ads |
| 17:44.49 | Guillotine | also seen it a couple times on worldofwar |
| 17:44.49 | krka | i get swedish ads |
| 17:44.57 | Guillotine | lol |
| 17:45.05 | Guillotine | and the ones on curse aren't much better |
| 17:45.07 | Guillotine | if any better |
| 17:45.10 | Guillotine | just different :/ |
| 17:45.21 | Cairenn | I wish we didn't have them on our site at all =/ |
| 17:45.31 | Shadowed | sadly, the real world is a bitch =p |
| 17:45.36 | Kaydeethree | gotta pay for the bandwidth somehow |
| 17:45.48 | Cairenn | yup =/ |
| 17:45.52 | Shadowed | i just ignore them, at least the audio type of ones haven't been on WoWI |
| 17:45.52 | Guillotine | yup |
| 17:45.59 | Guillotine | ya, I hate those |
| 17:46.29 | Shadowed | although it's rather interesting that those ads pay better |
| 17:46.32 | Shadowed | not suprising I guess |
| 17:46.51 | Guillotine | the "Supporting Member" thing that it seems every site is starting should help though |
| 17:47.13 | Guillotine | you can chose to help pay a little bit for the bandwith rather than see those ads |
| 17:47.20 | Shadowed | Oh? when did WoWI get that |
| 17:47.31 | Shadowed | or you mean everyone else =p |
| 17:47.33 | Cairenn | it isn't live yet, but will be very very shortly |
| 17:47.35 | Guillotine | Shadowed: didn't get it, but there was a post a while ago that they were going to eventually |
| 17:48.09 | *** join/#wowi-lounge KarlThePagan (n=andross@lanip-170-65.go180.net) |
| 17:48.18 | Guillotine | in addition to the no-ads we should get a way to contact admins directly. like talk to them through IRC or something |
| 17:48.23 | Guillotine | :P |
| 17:48.53 | Shadowed | Theres still the suggestion of signed pictures, that'd work =p |
| 17:48.58 | Cairenn | ewwwww, no way we'd ever allow anything like that |
| 17:49.05 | Guillotine | lol, so you DID see that thread Shadowed |
| 17:49.06 | Cairenn | EITHER suggestion |
| 17:49.08 | Shadowed | yea I did |
| 17:50.16 | Shadowed | although I only saw the first few posts which were "Signed pictures of Cairenn" |
| 17:50.31 | Kaydeethree | hah |
| 17:51.32 | Shirik | I still think signed posters would be perfectly reasonable |
| 17:51.38 | Shirik | for us |
| 17:51.59 | foxlit_ | SO I'm sitting here with a book; it proclaims "MORE THAN 100,000 COPIES SOLD" on the front cover |
| 17:52.11 | TC-Working | heh, "The Women of WoWI" Posters |
| 17:52.24 | Shirik | s/Women/Woman/ |
| 17:52.39 | TC-Working | i assume there are more than one that use wowi |
| 17:52.41 | Shirik | it could be done ^^ |
| 17:52.47 | Shirik | a calendar too |
| 17:52.50 | Cairenn | no :p |
| 17:52.55 | Shadowed | You'd have to fake half the pictures |
| 17:54.25 | Guillotine | can a text frame have an OnShow/OnHide handler? |
| 17:54.35 | cogwheel|work | if it's a frame |
| 17:54.43 | foxlit_ | What's a text frame? |
| 17:54.47 | cogwheel|work | FontStrings aren't frames |
| 17:55.46 | Guillotine | ah |
| 17:55.53 | Shadowed | http://www.wowwiki.com/Widget_Handlers |
| 17:56.10 | Shadowed | although thats probably somewhat out of date, don't think it's changed that much |
| 17:58.06 | TC-Working | just you wait Cairenn, we are going to make posters from blizzcon |
| 17:58.20 | Cairenn | *doesn't go to blizzcon* |
| 17:58.32 | Shirik | you're going to scare her away!! |
| 17:58.32 | TC-Working | does too |
| 18:00.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Telrin (n=test@shandalar.xs4all.nl) |
| 18:00.32 | cogwheel|work | We need to have a big modders meeting at this Blizzcon |
| 18:00.52 | Shirik | I still need to find a way to get there >.> |
| 18:00.54 | cogwheel|work | I was still just a lUser at the last one |
| 18:01.43 | TC-Working | right, so whos hotel room are we meeting in then? |
| 18:01.51 | Shirik | Cairenn's obviously |
| 18:02.20 | TC-Working | that is totaly inapropriate |
| 18:02.24 | TC-Working | lets do it |
| 18:02.49 | Shirik | ^^ |
| 18:02.58 | cogwheel|work | Maybe we can convince slouken to set up a table for us :P |
| 18:03.00 | TC-Working | well at least they are having it before school starts |
| 18:03.29 | Shirik | I might have to work though :( |
| 18:03.39 | Shirik | is that a saturday/sunday? |
| 18:03.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Vilkku (n=Vilkku@dsl-86-60-132-188-DynIP.ssp.fi) |
| 18:03.58 | Shirik | ]not even close >< |
| 18:03.59 | TC-Working | fs |
| 18:04.04 | TC-Working | friday sat |
| 18:04.09 | Shirik | ? |
| 18:04.15 | Shirik | oh |
| 18:05.02 | TC-Working | i just hope i have some money left by then |
| 18:05.19 | Shirik | the money won't be an issue |
| 18:05.22 | Shirik | the time might :/ |
| 18:06.10 | TC-Working | yea well, i gave in my resignation papers yesterday so i hope i have some monies by aug |
| 18:06.53 | cogwheel|work | you've got months to ask for it off :P |
| 18:07.34 | nevcairiel | stupid US conventions |
| 18:07.46 | Shirik | I can't |
| 18:07.55 | Shirik | It's an internship, I won't be granted time off |
| 18:09.01 | TC-Working | make your own then nevcairiel |
| 18:09.03 | Guillotine | cogwheel: ooo, can I come to the meeting >.> |
| 18:09.44 | TC-Working | i was going to make one for wow before blizzcon reared it's ugly head |
| 18:10.12 | nevcairiel | i just wish flying to US wouldnt be that expensive |
| 18:10.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Hallucinosis (n=Hallucin@65.90.6.2) |
| 18:10.13 | Guillotine | I hope they give a nice in-game prize. thats the only reason I'm going >.> |
| 18:10.23 | TC-Working | beta of SC2 |
| 18:10.26 | TC-Working | :) |
| 18:10.26 | nevcairiel | heh |
| 18:10.26 | Shirik | I want one of those orphans permanently :( |
| 18:10.29 | Guillotine | but I want a muuuurlooooc |
| 18:10.53 | Guillotine | but seriously, <3 my new pet (Willy) He randomly shoots lasers and kills nearby critters o.O |
| 18:10.56 | Kaydeethree | mine helped me tank the maulgar mage last night |
| 18:10.58 | Guillotine | though I've only seen him do it once |
| 18:11.24 | cogwheel|work | I hope they have something other than a murloc :( |
| 18:11.31 | TC-Working | Guillotine, meelena wants you to do that for her |
| 18:11.33 | cogwheel|work | though I wouldn't mind putting murky on a second toon... |
| 18:12.01 | Guillotine | children's week ended on monday night :( I got home late monday from the plane, so I barely had time to do my own :/ |
| 18:12.24 | TC-Working | ah |
| 18:12.25 | TC-Working | ok |
| 18:12.31 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v Guillotine] by ChanServ |
| 18:13.10 | cogwheel|work | I was about to write ':( I missed children's week?' but then I remembered I spent all last week in vegas.... |
| 18:14.01 | pastamancer | cogwheel|work: you spent children's week in vegas? ... I'm not going to touch that |
| 18:14.07 | Kaso | haha |
| 18:14.37 | TC-Working | really..i would touch that |
| 18:14.46 | cogwheel|work | WWMJD |
| 18:15.15 | TC-Working | he would have fun |
| 18:16.51 | TC-Working | wowi needs to have a category for "mods that make other mods look pretty" |
| 18:17.22 | Cairenn | we have one - it's called plugins & patches |
| 18:17.27 | Cairenn | :p |
| 18:17.37 | TC-Working | so you do...thanks |
| 18:17.44 | TC-Working | now...about the misleading name.... |
| 18:17.46 | Cairenn | hehe |
| 18:17.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Recluse (i=john@adsl-71-145-149-94.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:20.15 | Guillotine | I thought hte mini patch today was supposed to fix a 132 error. I wasn't getting it before, now I am >< |
| 18:20.38 | TC-Working | it fixes it for everyone else...it breaks it for you |
| 18:21.09 | cogwheel|work | All the patch note says is "Fixed a crash in the client." |
| 18:21.14 | cogwheel|work | doesn't say which one :P |
| 18:21.53 | Guillotine | cogwheel: there was a post in the tech support forum that said it was 132 ;) |
| 18:22.16 | cogwheel|work | isn't 132 just a generic type of error that could be caused by a number of problems? |
| 18:22.54 | cogwheel|work | I think they're just referring to the type of crash as opposed to the cause |
| 18:24.05 | Guillotine | could be |
| 18:27.52 | Guillotine | question: if you already have the orphan whistle from orphan week, can you still complete the quests now? |
| 18:28.02 | Guillotine | or will it not let you get the last one? |
| 18:29.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik|Ecole (n=nospam@155.31.161.72) |
| 18:32.08 | wereHamster | isn't 132 something like a SIGSEGV? eg. WoW tries to read/write to a location in memory it hasn't access to? |
| 18:32.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Fin (n=Fin@migi.instinct.org) |
| 18:32.29 | Shirik|Ecole | ya |
| 18:32.36 | Shirik|Ecole | 132 is an access violation / segmentation fault |
| 18:33.09 | Shirik|Ecole | watch the error details it says 0xC0000005; I don't know about other OSes (or if that's platform independent) but I know on windows that's an access violation code |
| 18:33.13 | zenzelezz | I thought 132 was the catch-all, from the number of people getting it... thankfully I've never had it |
| 18:33.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Aella (n=Aella@74.221.43.140) |
| 18:33.29 | Shirik|Ecole | nah it's just one error, but an extremely common one ;) |
| 18:33.35 | Shirik|Ecole | just about anything can cause a segmentation fault |
| 18:33.35 | zenzelezz | that's probably the one hex code Joe Average know |
| 18:33.36 | zenzelezz | +s |
| 18:33.43 | Aella | Can you reliably use SendAddonMessage on PLAYER_LOGOUT, anyone know? |
| 18:34.19 | zenzelezz | damn it, captioned cat picture sites... |
| 18:34.24 | cogwheel|work | Only time I've ever had a 132 was when I tried to log into the 2.1 PTR with a 2.0.3 PTR client |
| 18:34.31 | Shirik|Ecole | lol |
| 18:34.34 | zenzelezz | I suddenly got the urge to make a macro for my taunt button... so I can say "I can has aggro" |
| 18:34.47 | TC-Working | *snicker* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=066_q4DIeqk |
| 18:34.52 | Shirik|Ecole | rofl |
| 18:34.58 | Shirik|Ecole | do it zenzelezz |
| 18:35.24 | wereHamster | Shirik|Ecole, /msg TechBot !ntstatus 0xC0000005 |
| 18:35.31 | Shirik|Ecole | ? |
| 18:35.47 | Kaso | TC-Working, thats awesome |
| 18:35.53 | Shirik|Ecole | oh cool :) |
| 18:35.59 | Shirik|Ecole | but yeah I have that one memorized :P |
| 18:36.06 | TC-Working | really? i was going for disturbing, but ok |
| 18:36.07 | Shirik|Ecole | visual studio throws it all athe time at me be |
| 18:36.11 | Shirik|Ecole | wow |
| 18:36.15 | Kaso | haha |
| 18:36.25 | Shirik|Ecole | visual studio throws it all the time at me * |
| 18:36.39 | wereHamster | TechBot belongs to the #winehackers people, and wil ltell you what the cryptic windows status/error numbers mean :) |
| 18:36.50 | Shirik|Ecole | sadly I develop on a windows platform :( |
| 18:37.03 | zenzelezz | I once browsed the VC++ documentation for the C.... error codes... lots of funny ones |
| 18:37.07 | cogwheel|work | alizee is teh seks |
| 18:37.10 | zenzelezz | "more than 16000 errors in file, quitting" |
| 18:37.13 | Kaso | I thought the druid tree form was modeled off of Uma Thurman in pulp fiction though. |
| 18:37.13 | zenzelezz | cogwheel|work: seconded and thirded |
| 18:37.29 | nevcairiel | heh |
| 18:37.48 | TC-Working | here is alizee http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuYcwVjez3w&NR=1 |
| 18:37.57 | nevcairiel | but yeah, second on that thirded |
| 18:38.18 | Kaso | <3 alizee |
| 18:38.27 | Aella | Rephrasing of question: WoWWiki says that doing anything on PLAYER_LOGOUT is unreliable. Does anyone know if using SendAddonMessage then is reliable, or if there's another event? |
| 18:38.28 | cogwheel|work | my wife had a got a hole in a pair of shorts when she brushed up against a blackberry bush and wanted to put a fish patch on it >< |
| 18:38.57 | Shirik|Ecole | (14:38:01) (Aella) Rephrasing of question: WoWWiki says that doing anything on PLAYER_LOGOUT is unreliable. Does anyone know if using SendAddonMessage then is reliable, or if there's another event? |
| 18:39.01 | Shirik|Ecole | I think that's an exaggeration |
| 18:39.12 | Shirik|Ecole | however, SendAddonMessage I can't say whether it will work |
| 18:39.41 | Aella | I guess I'll give it a try. |
| 18:39.56 | Shirik|Ecole | I am more than willing to help you test it :) |
| 18:40.29 | End | if the server disconnects you, it won't help you obviously |
| 18:40.38 | End | other than that, I think it'd work fine |
| 18:41.15 | End | hmm |
| 18:41.26 | End | it may be tearing stuff down when PLAYER_LOGOUT? |
| 18:42.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge PProvost_ (i=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 18:43.14 | clad|away | WOO HOO |
| 18:43.33 | TC-Working | i think clad is sad |
| 18:43.45 | cogwheel|work | wrong initial consonant |
| 18:43.54 | Shirik|Ecole | hi cladhaire |
| 18:43.57 | cogwheel|work | I was just thinking about the book... |
| 18:43.58 | Shirik|Ecole | oooh! |
| 18:43.58 | cladhaire | hi! |
| 18:43.59 | Aella | Niice! |
| 18:44.20 | cogwheel|work | I think blizzard should set up a UI booth at Blizzcon... |
| 18:44.24 | Aella | I'm really tempted to buy it. |
| 18:44.28 | cladhaire | cogwheel|work: I'm trying to get something set up |
| 18:44.33 | cladhaire | the publisher will give me materials, etc. |
| 18:45.26 | cogwheel|work | "1:30 PM - UI Booth - Slouken signs screenshots of the WoW UI" |
| 18:45.48 | Guillotine | lol |
| 18:45.53 | Aella | Bwahaha. |
| 18:45.58 | Shirik|Ecole | rofl |
| 18:46.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (n=elkano@ip-213-135-2-191.handshake.de) |
| 18:46.07 | Shirik|Ecole | sadly |
| 18:46.10 | Shirik|Ecole | I'd probably do that |
| 18:46.16 | Shirik|Ecole | then frame it |
| 18:46.20 | End | slouken isn't the UI sort of guy, he's the UI backend sort of guy :P |
| 18:46.43 | Aella | Yeah, the artists would have to sign the UI. |
| 18:46.48 | Aella | But the source code, on the other hand… |
| 18:46.53 | Guillotine | if they don't we need to set up an unofficial meeting place and put it on all the UI websites |
| 18:46.54 | Aella | (He did get promoted in Feb.) |
| 18:47.11 | Shirik|Ecole | make him sign the code? |
| 18:47.11 | Shirik|Ecole | ha |
| 18:47.26 | Shirik|Ecole | (14:46:27) (+Guillotine) if they don't we need to set up an unofficial meeting place and put it on all the UI websites |
| 18:47.27 | Shirik|Ecole | agree. |
| 18:47.38 | TC-Working | lets do it at Guillotine's house |
| 18:47.44 | cogwheel|work | I'm imagining a lithograph or microfiche containing all the FrameXML code in REALLY tiny font... |
| 18:47.45 | Guillotine | lol, make him sign a long printout of all the FrameXML files |
| 18:47.56 | Guillotine | cogwheel beet me by miliseconds >< |
| 18:48.02 | cogwheel|work | :P |
| 18:48.06 | Josh_Borke | ^-- winnar |
| 18:48.08 | Shirik|Ecole | that would be awesome |
| 18:48.12 | Josh_Borke | purl, cogwheel|work++ |
| 18:48.15 | Josh_Borke | that would be awesome |
| 18:48.22 | Shirik|Ecole | you again!! |
| 18:48.28 | Josh_Borke | me again!! |
| 18:48.32 | cogwheel|work | gotta make up for this morning... |
| 18:49.38 | Guillotine | seriously, someone has to print out all that code then walk up to Slouken and ask him to sign it |
| 18:49.40 | Guillotine | and see what he does |
| 18:49.42 | Shirik|Ecole | rofl |
| 18:49.47 | Aella | I'd put it in a leatherbound book. |
| 18:49.49 | Shirik|Ecole | we should all do it together |
| 18:49.52 | Guillotine | ya! |
| 18:49.52 | Shirik|Ecole | walk up to him |
| 18:49.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Hallucinosis (n=Hallucin@65.90.6.2) |
| 18:49.58 | Guillotine | each with a copy |
| 18:50.01 | Kaso | that'd be pretty amusing |
| 18:50.08 | Kaso | i'd want videos if someone did that |
| 18:50.17 | Shirik|Ecole | I'm totally tempted to now |
| 18:50.19 | Guillotine | I'll bring my camera and take a short video :P |
| 18:50.24 | Guillotine | Shirik: I'll seriously do it with you |
| 18:50.25 | TC-Working | i'd tape it...just need the camera |
| 18:50.31 | Guillotine | we can go to Kinkos and get it bound :P |
| 18:50.43 | TC-Working | it's about $5 for spiral bound |
| 18:50.47 | Aella | Syntax-highlighted and line-numbered… |
| 18:50.49 | TC-Working | at kinkos |
| 18:51.10 | Shirik|Ecole | this must be done. |
| 18:51.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tuller_ (n=chatzill@c-76-27-166-119.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 18:51.35 | Shirik|Ecole | and my battery's about to die so I'll be back in 10 minutes |
| 18:53.37 | Josh_Borke | rofl |
| 18:53.40 | Josh_Borke | we should all do it together |
| 18:53.41 | Josh_Borke | walk up to him |
| 18:53.47 | Josh_Borke | I'm totally tempted to now |
| 18:53.50 | Josh_Borke | this must be done. |
| 18:53.55 | Josh_Borke | CRAP! |
| 18:53.55 | Josh_Borke | he left |
| 18:54.39 | Shadowed | Does that mean someones going to start the fund for printing out like 100 pages of code |
| 18:55.05 | Josh_Borke | i could print it at work |
| 18:55.28 | Shadowed | 202 files in FrameXML if you're including the XML ones too |
| 18:55.51 | Aella | Pfft, those were tool-generated. |
| 18:56.00 | Aella | Not laboriously hand-written. |
| 18:56.11 | Guillotine | Mine is just going to be in size 6, double sided |
| 18:56.13 | Guillotine | so it shouldn't be too bad |
| 18:56.22 | Guillotine | like $2 for the whole thing |
| 18:56.25 | Shadowed | Fine, 95 files minus the XML |
| 18:56.26 | TC-Working | hmm..size 60 should be good |
| 18:57.29 | Shirik | Josh_Borke = slow |
| 18:57.40 | TC-Working | heh |
| 18:57.41 | Josh_Borke | Shirik: sorry, lag |
| 18:57.47 | Josh_Borke | they all got buffered ;-P |
| 18:57.52 | Shirik | 14:51:32 » Quit: Shirik|Ecole ‹n=nospam@155.31.161.72› ‹"wtb Solar Powered Laptop, pst."› |
| 18:57.52 | Shirik | 14:53:14 ‹Josh_Borke› rofl |
| 18:57.53 | Shirik | yeah |
| 18:57.55 | Shirik | two minute lag |
| 18:58.14 | TC-Working | i can sell you a solar powered laptop |
| 18:58.24 | Shirik | will it work? |
| 18:58.37 | TC-Working | yep |
| 18:58.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ven (i=ven@i59F55F0A.versanet.de) |
| 18:59.01 | TC-Working | for about 1 min |
| 18:59.11 | Shirik | charge for 24 hours? |
| 18:59.29 | cogwheel|work | Aella: I wouldn't be too sure... |
| 19:00.37 | TC-Working | 1 sec Shirik |
| 19:01.00 | cogwheel|work | of course, it depends on your definition of laboriously hand-written :P |
| 19:01.50 | Aella | Not using XMLSpy? =P |
| 19:03.27 | TC-Working | Shirik: http://www.gaiam.com/retail/gai_searchresults.asp |
| 19:05.28 | cogwheel|work | meh... it's pretty much just a glorified text editor... I get most of the benefits of XMLSpy with visual studio |
| 19:07.06 | Guillotine | is there any difference between %s and %S in regexps? |
| 19:07.16 | cogwheel|work | %S means "not %s" |
| 19:07.24 | Guillotine | alright, ty :) |
| 19:07.35 | cogwheel|work | (in lua patterns, anyway... don't know about actual regexs) |
| 19:07.45 | Kaso | moreso, any captitlised letter is negative the uncaptitalised one. |
| 19:07.51 | Guillotine | well, I was refering to lua patterns anyway :) |
| 19:10.55 | Guillotine | how do you make something on-greedy again? I completely forgot >.> Still stuck in python mode |
| 19:10.59 | Guillotine | non* |
| 19:11.50 | cogwheel|work | http://www.lua.org/pil/20.2.html |
| 19:12.11 | Guillotine | ah, whoops. was on the reference guide, not pil >< |
| 19:12.14 | Guillotine | no wonder it wasn't there |
| 19:14.07 | Kaso | 5.4.1 |
| 19:14.14 | Kaso | lua patterns in the manual |
| 19:14.25 | Kaso | (i know that off by heart, how sad is that |
| 19:14.43 | Guillotine | ya, but nothing about greedyness in there |
| 19:15.01 | Kaso | sure there is |
| 19:15.14 | Kaso | a single character class followed by '-', which also matches 0 or more repetitions of characters in the class. Unlike '*', these repetition items will always match the shortest possible sequence; |
| 19:16.29 | Guillotine | I know, but I want a ? to be non-greedy |
| 19:16.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ag` (n=ag`@0x535f749b.bynxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 19:17.14 | Kaso | ? is single charater how can it be greedy? |
| 19:17.17 | Guillotine | meh. can't figure this out. so I'm trying to match all urls (like https://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.html?forumId=11112&sid=1). I am currently using "(%a+://%S+%s?)" which works fine, except that when there is a period after it due to it being the end of a sentance, it picks that up as well |
| 19:17.17 | cogwheel|work | how does greediness apply to a single character? |
| 19:18.00 | Guillotine | oh wait, I think I figured it out |
| 19:19.22 | Guillotine | nm :/ |
| 19:19.25 | Guillotine | maybe I'll just chop it off |
| 19:20.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge tedrock (n=tedrock@d235-159-230.home1.cgocable.net) |
| 19:21.34 | *** join/#wowi-lounge PProvost__ (i=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost) |
| 19:22.31 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 19:28.28 | foxlit_ | (%a+://%S+[^%s.]?) |
| 19:28.42 | foxlit_ | Or not. |
| 19:29.17 | End | I don't think you can do it. |
| 19:29.32 | End | If lua patterns were really regular expressions, sure no problem |
| 19:29.39 | End | but they are a bit more limited |
| 19:30.31 | pastamancer | %f\.? |
| 19:31.39 | pastamancer | or rather %f[\.]? |
| 19:31.48 | pastamancer | http://lua-users.org/wiki/FrontierPattern |
| 19:32.30 | pastamancer | probably easier to trim the url yourself after capturing it |
| 19:32.53 | End | interesting, I had never heard of this frontier pattern |
| 19:34.44 | Kaso | nor had i |
| 19:47.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Osagasu (n=Kronus@208.104.156.29) |
| 19:50.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire_ (n=cladhair@cpe-74-71-116-245.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 19:51.59 | foxlit_ | WoW chokes on raid login after crashes |
| 19:52.13 | foxlit_ | I suspect some infinite loop somewhere, but how would I check? |
| 19:53.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire_ (n=cladhair@cpe-74-71-116-245.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 19:54.42 | TC-Working | arent there programs that can check for that sort of thing |
| 19:54.57 | TC-Working | i know i used to have a couple, although they were for c |
| 19:56.23 | Kaso | >>> a=function() print"This is a Test" end print(string.dump(a)) |
| 19:56.23 | Cide | Kaso: "\027LuaQ\000\001\004\004\004\008\000=\000\000\000a=function() print\"This is a Test\" end print(string.dump(a))\000\001\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\000\000\000\002\004\000\000\000\005\000\000\000A@\000\000\028@\000\001\030\000\128\000\002\000\000\000\004\006\000\000\000print\000\004\015\000\000\000This is a Test\000\000\000\000\000\004\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\00 |
| 19:56.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cladhaire_ (n=cladhair@cpe-74-71-116-245.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 19:56.40 | Kaso | >>> a=function() print"This is a Test" end loadstring(string.dump(a):gsub("Test","Banana")) |
| 19:56.40 | Cide | Kaso: nil |
| 19:56.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dsfargeg (n=rumors@69.37.131.35) |
| 19:59.19 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o cladhaire] by ChanServ |
| 20:00.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaelten (n=kaelten@69.109.103.158) |
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| 20:12.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge MoonWolf (n=MoonWolf@89.98.118.158) |
| 20:12.06 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v MoonWolf] by ChanServ |
| 20:14.13 | Mikk | Kaso: evil =P |
| 20:14.37 | Kaso | it doesnt seem to work though >.< |
| 20:14.44 | Kaso | 1: unexpected end in precompiled chunk |
| 20:15.06 | Kaso | im breaking some sort of binary crap by gsubing or something. |
| 20:15.52 | cogwheel|work | Kaso: string length is encoded along with the string in Lua afaik... |
| 20:16.20 | Kaso | ooh |
| 20:16.21 | Kaso | correct |
| 20:16.31 | Kaso | ah! makes so much sense now |
| 20:17.25 | Kaso | >>> a=function() print"This is a Test" end loadstring(string.dump(a):gsub("Test","Tree"))() |
| 20:17.26 | Cide | Kaso: "This is a Tree" |
| 20:18.09 | cogwheel|work | hmm.... |
| 20:18.22 | Kaso | just gotta work out which chars are the length and change appropriately |
| 20:18.55 | cogwheel|work | I think it's the \015\000\000\000 immediately preceeding the string |
| 20:19.02 | cogwheel|work | (though it's off by one) |
| 20:19.22 | Mikk | Includes terminating nil? |
| 20:20.00 | Mikk | Would it be evuhl to re-use blizzard's newbie tip system to display tips for addons? o.O |
| 20:20.14 | Kaso | i think that be pretty cool |
| 20:21.10 | cogwheel|work | Mikk: there is no terminating nil in lua strings... |
| 20:21.29 | Mikk | cogwheel|work: no, not in memory there isn't. but maybe in the bytecode? |
| 20:21.30 | cogwheel|work | err... i guess since lua is written in C |
| 20:21.42 | Guillotine | Documentaiton for my new HelpLibrary: http://www.wowwiki.com/HelpLib . Anybody have any suggestions on changes in format of passed arguments/explanations on the wiki? |
| 20:23.19 | End | size_t size=s->tsv.len+1; /* include trailing '\0' */ |
| 20:23.35 | Mikk | Seems good. The options on embedding are identical tho =P |
| 20:23.38 | End | looks like it does include nul for some reason |
| 20:23.53 | cogwheel|work | probably makes it easier to "physically" handle the strings in C code |
| 20:24.43 | Mikk | It probably make sense historically. But now that you can put \000 in string constants it's a little ... meh? |
| 20:24.45 | Mikk | make=made |
| 20:31.15 | TC-Working | wow, Steve Jobs comment on itunes in windows "It's like giving a glass of ice water to someone in hell." |
| 20:33.45 | Kaso | If there are no computer games in heaven, then i dont want to be in heaven |
| 20:39.05 | TC-Working | Industrial: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gears-of-war/the-gear-clock-264559.php |
| 20:40.29 | Luminax | you mean like giving a glass of magma to someone burning in hell ? |
| 20:40.51 | Luminax | it's hot enough in windows already |
| 20:40.57 | Luminax | I don't need iCrap to make it worse :3 |
| 20:49.41 | MentalPower|Work | Which airport is best if I want to go to blizzcon? |
| 20:52.07 | TC-Working | hmm... |
| 20:52.36 | TC-Working | Anaheim would be closeist ofc |
| 20:52.42 | ZealotOnAStick | Orange County/Anaheim. |
| 20:52.49 | ZealotOnAStick | John Wayne I think. |
| 20:52.52 | TC-Working | doubt cheapst though |
| 20:53.15 | ZealotOnAStick | ehh, book a couple months in advance, difference between there and LAX is probably less than $40. |
| 20:53.33 | TC-Working | maybe |
| 20:56.07 | Cairenn | John Wayne is closest, cheapest to fly into and out of, and cheapest for ground transport to and from, since it's closest |
| 20:56.22 | ZealotOnAStick | if you take a taxi, travel difference alone will make it worth the price. If you do a shuttle if the hotel doesn't provide, it won't matter cost-wise, but will be a much longer ride. |
| 20:56.40 | ZealotOnAStick | welp, there you go. |
| 20:57.06 | ZealotOnAStick | I did John Wayne last year for GenCon SoCal, it was much nicer than when I did LAX before. |
| 20:57.53 | ZealotOnAStick | Disney ensures that John Wayne stays attractive financially. |
| 20:59.07 | Cairenn | the conference center is right beside Disney |
| 21:01.41 | ZealotOnAStick | Are they using Anaheim Convention Center? |
| 21:01.44 | Cairenn | yeah |
| 21:01.49 | Cairenn | same as last time |
| 21:02.03 | ZealotOnAStick | I didn't go to last, and likely won't get to go to this. :( |
| 21:02.17 | Cairenn | "This year's event will take place at the Anaheim Convention Center in Anaheim, California on August 3 and 4 ..." |
| 21:03.30 | ZealotOnAStick | Yeah. I'm still concerned about money for GenCon, in mid-august . . . and my hotel and badge are taken care of for me. |
| 21:04.02 | *** join/#wowi-lounge nymbia (n=nymbia@71-218-137-239.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 21:06.23 | Kaso | >>> SavedVariables.test="test" |
| 21:06.23 | Cide | Kaso: nil |
| 21:06.32 | Kaso | >>> print(SavedVariables.test) |
| 21:06.32 | Cide | Kaso: "test" |
| 21:07.20 | Kaso | >>> http://pastey.net/45929 |
| 21:07.22 | Cide | Kaso: function: 008B9620 |
| 21:07.47 | Kaso | SavedVariables.modifyFunction(function() print("This is a test"),"This is a test","This is a Banana") |
| 21:07.55 | Kaso | >>> SavedVariables.modifyFunction(function() print("This is a test"),"This is a test","This is a Banana")() |
| 21:07.55 | Cide | Kaso: [string "SavedVariables.modifyFunction(function() print("This is a test"..."]:1: unexpected symbol near ',' |
| 21:08.08 | Kaso | >>> SavedVariables.modifyFunction(function() print("This is a test") end,"This is a test","This is a Banana")() |
| 21:08.08 | Cide | Kaso: [string "SavedVariables.modifyFunction(function() pr..."]:1: attempt to call field 'modifyFunction' (a nil value) |
| 21:08.22 | MentalPower|Work | wait, Cide's thing accepts pastey addys as input? |
| 21:08.26 | Kaso | yah |
| 21:08.31 | MentalPower|Work | sweet! |
| 21:08.35 | Kaso | Saved variables are buggy as hell >.< |
| 21:08.38 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Nyri (n=nyri@nyri.de) |
| 21:09.15 | Kaso | >>> print(SavedVariables.modifyFunction) |
| 21:09.15 | Cide | Kaso: nil |
| 21:09.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gngsk (n=gngsk@c-69-138-213-251.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 21:09.19 | Kaso | >.< |
| 21:09.54 | cogwheel|work | he changed it to SV |
| 21:09.58 | cogwheel|work | to make it easier |
| 21:10.11 | cogwheel|work | >>> SV[5] = "lala" |
| 21:10.11 | Cide | cogwheel|work: nil |
| 21:10.17 | cogwheel|work | >>> SV[5] |
| 21:10.17 | Cide | cogwheel|work: "lala" |
| 21:10.43 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Parak (i=PROFI@user-387hhso.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 21:11.35 | Kaso | sweet |
| 21:12.03 | cogwheel|work | >>> for k in pairs(SV) do print(k) end |
| 21:12.04 | Cide | cogwheel|work: 5 |
| 21:12.18 | Kaso | >>> http://pastey.net/45929 |
| 21:12.19 | Cide | Kaso: [string "function SV[1337] = modifyFunction(func,stringInFunc,stringToRe..."]:1: '(' expected near '[' |
| 21:12.51 | Kaso | >>> http://pastey.net/45929 |
| 21:12.52 | Cide | Kaso: nil |
| 21:13.02 | cladhaire | >>> serialize(SV) |
| 21:13.02 | Cide | cladhaire: [string "serialize(SV)"]:1: attempt to call global 'serialize' (a nil value) |
| 21:13.02 | cogwheel|work | >>> function SV.GetRandomArgument(...) return (select(math.random(select('#', ...)), ...)) end |
| 21:13.03 | Cide | cogwheel|work: nil |
| 21:13.04 | cladhaire | boo |
| 21:13.09 | Kaso | >>> SV[1337](function() print("This is a test") end,"This is a test","This is a Banana")() |
| 21:13.09 | Cide | Kaso: [string "SV[1337](function() print("This is a test")..."]:1: attempt to call field '?' (a nil value) |
| 21:13.16 | Cide | they're a bit buggy, yeah |
| 21:13.18 | Kaso | nill field! |
| 21:13.20 | Kaso | grr |
| 21:13.23 | Cide | not sure why yet and don't have time to fix it atm |
| 21:13.26 | Kaso | ill do it all in one pastey then |
| 21:13.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Arrowmaster (n=Arrow@cpe-71-64-143-75.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 21:14.03 | cogwheel|work | >>> SV.GetRandomArgument("hello", 1, 3, 5, "goodbye") |
| 21:14.03 | Kaso | >>> http://pastey.net/45929 |
| 21:14.04 | Cide | cogwheel|work: "hello" |
| 21:14.05 | Cide | Kaso: [string "function modifyFunction(func,stringInFunc,s..."]:9: binary string: bad constant in precompiled chunk |
| 21:14.09 | Kaso | nooo! |
| 21:14.14 | cogwheel|work | >>> SV.GetRandomArgument("hello", 1, 3, 5, "goodbye") |
| 21:14.14 | Cide | cogwheel|work: 3 |
| 21:16.09 | Kaso | it works in my stand alone lua ^_- |
| 21:16.56 | Kaso | >>> http://pastey.net/45929 |
| 21:16.58 | Cide | Kaso: [string "function modifyFunction(func,stringInFunc,s..."]:9: binary string: bad constant in precompiled chunk |
| 21:17.03 | Kaso | why doesnt it work!? |
| 21:17.27 | Kaso | the exact code works in stand alone lua |
| 21:23.31 | Kaso | cide, does your code hook string.dump or loadstring somehow? |
| 21:23.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Aella (n=Aella@74.221.43.140) |
| 21:24.05 | Aella | I like simple add-ons. |
| 21:24.08 | Cide | Kaso: no |
| 21:24.42 | Aella | Which is another way of saying that I like the add-ons I write. |
| 21:24.42 | Cide | afaik |
| 21:24.42 | Aella | I guess I'm a narcissist. |
| 21:24.49 | Aella | News at 11. |
| 21:24.59 | Cide | go fall in love with yourself! |
| 21:25.10 | Aella | And the add-on I just wrote. Consider it done. |
| 21:26.13 | Kaso | >>> _VERSION |
| 21:26.13 | Cide | Kaso: "Lua 5.1" |
| 21:26.56 | Kaso | im at a loss as to whats going on >.< |
| 21:27.11 | cogwheel|work | endianness, perhaps? |
| 21:27.21 | End | unlikely |
| 21:27.26 | End | but possibly |
| 21:28.24 | Kaso | ive never heard that term before cogwheel |
| 21:29.34 | Kaydeethree | it's just the way bits are ordered in a byte. little-endian vs big-endian. I think little-endian's LSB first, but I need more caffeine |
| 21:30.18 | End | it's actually byte ordering in a multibyte integer |
| 21:31.58 | End | (anyways, for little it is the least significant byte is first) |
| 21:32.20 | Kaso | So what implications would that have for me? |
| 21:32.35 | End | (for pdp-11, it's all weird though but we don't care about that) |
| 21:33.44 | End | it means you are modifying the wrong location of memory |
| 21:33.55 | End | oh |
| 21:33.59 | End | it's not endianess |
| 21:34.29 | End | well, it could be, but I don't think it is |
| 21:34.56 | End | I think Cide's lua uses larger numbers for sizes |
| 21:35.04 | End | ie, 64bit versus 32bit |
| 21:35.04 | Aella | "The time has come," the Walrus said, "To talk of many things: of bits, and bytes, and endians; of O(log n), and strings... and why people decide to bot, and what Slouken will bring." |
| 21:35.08 | Aella | >.> |
| 21:35.09 | Aella | <.< |
| 21:35.21 | Kaydeethree | I uh... |
| 21:36.23 | End | lua uses size_t |
| 21:37.39 | End | oh |
| 21:37.42 | End | another thing |
| 21:38.11 | End | how are you sure the only appearance of the string length is actually talking about the string length? |
| 21:38.35 | End | er, the one you are looking at I mean |
| 21:38.57 | Kaso | in a general case im not sure, in the specific case, cos i've tested |
| 21:41.00 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cogwheel|work (n=chatzill@intra.kistlerwine.com) |
| 21:45.21 | End | >>> print(string.dump(function() return "This is a test" end)) |
| 21:45.22 | Cide | End: "\027LuaQ\000\001\004\004\004\008\000;\000\000\000print(string.dump(function() return \"This is a test\" end))\000\001\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\000\000\000\002\003\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\030\000\000\001\030\000\128\000\001\000\000\000\004\015\000\000\000This is a test\000\000\000\000\000\003\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000" |
| 21:45.59 | Aella | Hmm… |
| 21:46.48 | Aella | >>> print(loadstring("\027LuaQ\000\001\004\004\004\008\000;\000\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\000\000\000\002\003\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\030\000\000\001\030\000\128\000\001\000\000\000\004\015\000\000\000This is a test\000\000\000\000\000\003\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000")()) |
| 21:46.48 | Cide | Aella: [string "print(loadstring("\027LuaQ\000\001\004\004\..."]:1: attempt to call a nil value |
| 21:47.11 | Aella | Length-prefixed string, not null-terminated, I guess. |
| 21:53.47 | cogwheel|work | Guillotine: one think the wiki page needs is a link to the lib itself :P (unless you haven't finished it yet...) |
| 21:54.12 | Guillotine | cogwheel: finished, but havn't posted it yet |
| 21:54.17 | Guillotine | just doing some last tests to make sure everything works |
| 21:55.59 | TC-Working | wobin: Ping |
| 21:56.56 | Aella | What library is this? |
| 21:57.04 | wobin | TC-Working: ack |
| 21:57.25 | TC-Working | what is, and do i need 'HeyFuStorage'? |
| 21:57.37 | wobin | nothing |
| 21:57.40 | wobin | right now |
| 21:57.55 | TC-Working | wipe it? |
| 21:57.58 | wobin | it was intended as long term storage for HeyFu, a sort of archive, but it's not really useful |
| 21:57.58 | wobin | yeah |
| 21:58.04 | TC-Working | ok |
| 21:59.32 | cogwheel|work | Aella: http://www.wowwiki.com/HelpLib |
| 21:59.45 | Aella | Neat. |
| 21:59.54 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet07.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 22:01.15 | cogwheel|work | If I ever get off my ass and update my mods, I'll be sure to use that. I can't stand the dearth of addon documentation |
| 22:02.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Neebler (n=BuM@adsl-70-140-218-33.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:07.13 | nevcairiel | is it just me, or has helplib no download link? |
| 22:07.51 | cogwheel|work | nevcairiel: scroll up to where I first brought it up :P |
| 22:08.06 | nevcairiel | ah |
| 22:08.14 | nevcairiel | i only saw your last link |
| 22:08.26 | nevcairiel | clicked it out of curiosity :P |
| 22:08.52 | nevcairiel | nvm then, time for sleep anyway |
| 22:10.12 | TC-Working | i give it 24 hours for the first pron/norris/leyroy QA set |
| 22:10.34 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 22:10.38 | TC-Working | s/leyroy/leroy/ |
| 22:15.12 | cogwheel|work | s/leroy/leeroy/ |
| 22:15.36 | TC-Working | yes, that |
| 22:17.02 | zenzelezz | so a guildie's telling us about his heroic Mechanar PUG... the hunter just misdirected the first boss to his pet |
| 22:18.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Nom- (n=nom@standen.id.au) |
| 22:28.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge dinesh-work (n=chatzill@c-68-36-168-161.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 22:29.31 | Kaydeethree | oh wow. street view in google maps is amazing |
| 22:29.36 | Kaydeethree | feels like I'm playing myst or something |
| 22:29.43 | Tem | street view? |
| 22:30.10 | Kaydeethree | they took a van with a 360-degree camera and drove it p and down the streets of a few cities |
| 22:30.17 | Tem | oh |
| 22:30.24 | Kaydeethree | looking at miamt atm |
| 22:30.28 | Kaydeethree | miami* |
| 22:31.45 | Kaso | Kaydeethree, i wouldnt know, cos google dont allow access to it outside of US |
| 22:32.09 | Kaydeethree | wasn't there something posted on digg with a workaround for that? |
| 22:32.27 | Kaso | Prob using a proxy or something |
| 22:32.50 | Kaso | its more googles descision i care about than the not being able to use it to be honest |
| 22:32.55 | Kaso | just like bitchin' |
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| 22:36.50 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-74-62-251-185.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 22:37.23 | foxlit | I'm in europe, and I can access it |
| 22:37.53 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 22:38.54 | Kaso | Ooh |
| 22:39.05 | Kaso | they changed since yesterday^^ |
| 22:41.36 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Nom- (n=nom@standen.id.au) |
| 22:42.13 | Kaso | Man, that is alot of photos theyve taken. |
| 22:42.19 | TC-Working | they dont have la :( |
| 22:42.59 | cogwheel|work | man... those pics must be at least a few months old... |
| 22:43.22 | TC-Working | i'm sure, it would have taken them much time to set it all up |
| 22:43.46 | Kaso | "How dare they dake a few months taking pictures of entire cities" ? |
| 22:43.58 | cogwheel|work | srsly! |
| 22:43.59 | TC-Working | but it's a great concept, it gives them the ability to show people what address they need to get to |
| 22:47.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ZealotOnAStick (n=zoas@c-69-246-194-227.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 23:00.13 | *** part/#wowi-lounge Punkie` (n=~@host86-130-2-120.range86-130.btcentralplus.com) |
| 23:01.32 | *** join/#wowi-lounge LordRhys (i=lordrhys@180.sub-70-196-206.myvzw.com) |
| 23:01.50 | Kaso | so LordRhys whats the problem |
| 23:02.07 | Shirik | ? |
| 23:02.11 | LordRhys | Hi anybody that can help me with a tooltip:SetOwner(frame) problem? |
| 23:02.13 | Kaso | he asked in wowwiki :> |
| 23:02.17 | Shirik | hehe |
| 23:02.20 | Shirik | what problem? |
| 23:02.50 | LordRhys | I am trying to scan the slot tooltips but get error I have coder at : http://ace.pastey.net/45996 |
| 23:03.17 | Shirik | ok... what error |
| 23:03.18 | Kaso | The error is? |
| 23:03.42 | LordRhys | "FuBar_WarriorAlertFu-0.0.1.36382\\WarriorAlertFu.lua:489: Usage: WarriorAlertFuTooltip:SetOwner(frame) |
| 23:04.08 | Shirik | does SetOwner take a string? |
| 23:04.10 | Kaso | remove your "" |
| 23:04.15 | Kaso | omg i hate you Shirik ! |
| 23:04.22 | Shirik | I win? |
| 23:04.26 | Shirik | =P |
| 23:04.42 | LordRhys | ahh ok thanks trying now |
| 23:05.06 | Kaso | Can you set the owner to itself? |
| 23:05.16 | Shirik | negative |
| 23:05.31 | Shirik | you're not allowed to do that naymore LordRhys |
| 23:06.18 | Kaso | Set it to UIParent, thats the common procedure. |
| 23:07.08 | LordRhys | no, just got that error can't set owner to self, will change to UIParent |
| 23:07.20 | Shirik | right |
| 23:09.28 | LordRhys | ok got past SetOwner, now it doesn't like the SetAction(slot) |
| 23:09.50 | Kaso | what the erorr. |
| 23:10.53 | LordRhys | "FuBar_WarriorAlertFu-0.0.1.36382\\WarriorAlertFu.lua:490: Usage: WarriorAlertFuTooltip:SetAction(slot) |
| 23:11.48 | Kaso | what did you pass your function? |
| 23:12.31 | LordRhys | for i=1, 120 do |
| 23:12.31 | LordRhys | self.GetSlots(i); |
| 23:12.31 | LordRhys | end |
| 23:12.48 | Kaso | use : instead of . |
| 23:12.49 | LordRhys | should send each slot # |
| 23:13.01 | LordRhys | ok |
| 23:13.25 | Kaso | When you define a function like table:func(arg) its the same as table.func(table,arg) |
| 23:14.04 | Kaso | so by calling self.getSlots(i) you werent properally passing the arg, the i was passed in place of the reference to self. |
| 23:14.47 | LordRhys | ah ok, thanks, that did it |
| 23:15.11 | Kaso | do you understand what the problem was? |
| 23:15.23 | LordRhys | yes, thanks |
| 23:15.42 | Kaso | np |
| 23:16.35 | LordRhys | Thanks all, guess I can get to fully testing it now |
| 23:16.40 | Guillotine | alright, taking screenshots of HelpLib, then I'll be uploading it to curse/wowi |
| 23:17.15 | TC-Working | ok, i'll make the stupid QA one |
| 23:17.30 | Guillotine | you do that :P |
| 23:17.32 | TC-Working | hmm...make it guild avaliable |
| 23:17.53 | *** part/#wowi-lounge LordRhys (i=lordrhys@180.sub-70-196-206.myvzw.com) |
| 23:18.11 | TC-Working | Q. What is Holytemplar A. Ground Beef in a tin |
| 23:26.49 | Guillotine | lol |
| 23:27.11 | Guillotine | that gives me an idea. I could make a Panda module to add all its questions to the KB through HelpLib... |
| 23:27.57 | TC-Working | i was thinking how close a 'guilld' wide QA would be to panda |
| 23:28.02 | TC-Working | guild* |
| 23:28.08 | zenzelezz | panda? |
| 23:28.47 | zenzelezz | I take it you're not talking about the big furry bear |
| 23:28.47 | TC-Working | yup |
| 23:29.58 | TC-Working | Guillotine can answer that question better than i can |
| 23:30.13 | Guillotine | ~panda |
| 23:30.21 | purl | Panda is a version of me! It is a port of me to the WoW scripting system (LUA). It is obtainable at either http://www.curse-gaming.com or http://www.wowinterface.com . Guillotine and Kremonte created it, but Guillotine is the current maintainer. |
| 23:30.46 | TC-Working | *sigh* nothin like one bot talking about another bot |
| 23:43.12 | Kaso | i object to the wording of that |
| 23:43.28 | Kaso | or, wait.. |
| 23:43.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge NimbleRabit (n=Nimble_R@cpe-76-170-244-178.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 23:43.43 | Kaso | aah |
| 23:43.43 | Kaso | cool |
| 23:43.47 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Karen@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 23:43.47 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 23:44.04 | Kaso | Lua should be spelt properly however, LUA aint an acronym :> |
| 23:48.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge andross_ (n=andross@lanip-170-65.go180.net) |
| 23:51.14 | TecnoBrat | Kaso, you could fix it :P |
| 23:51.26 | TC-Working | Kaso is lazy... |
| 23:51.32 | Guillotine | purl, no, panda is <reply> Panda is a version of me! It is a port of me to the WoW scripting system (Lua). It is obtainable at either http://www.curse-gaming.com or http://www.wowinterface.com . Guillotine and Kremonte created it, but Guillotine is the current maintainer. |
| 23:51.34 | purl | Guillotine: okay |
| 23:51.40 | Guillotine | I wasn't the one that did that :P |
| 23:51.44 | Guillotine | kremonte made that entry a while ago |
| 23:51.57 | *** join/#wowi-lounge andross__ (n=andross@lanip-170-65.go180.net) |
| 23:52.01 | TecnoBrat | how do you port the wow scripting system? |
| 23:52.08 | Shirik | ported purl :P |
| 23:52.18 | Guillotine | a port of purl to lua |
| 23:52.20 | Guillotine | not a port of lua |
| 23:52.21 | TecnoBrat | oh, I misread that |
| 23:52.24 | TecnoBrat | sorry :( |
| 23:52.41 | Guillotine | now I'm never going to talk to you again >:( |
| 23:52.45 | TecnoBrat | lol |
| 23:52.48 | TC-Working | harsh |
| 23:52.49 | Gnarfoz | a port of apt, rather, right? |
| 23:53.12 | Gnarfoz | or is purl itself a port of apt, not just apt running with 'purl' as it's nick? ^^ |
| 23:53.19 | *** join/#wowi-lounge KarlThePagan (n=andross@lanip-170-65.go180.net) |
| 23:53.31 | Guillotine | purl is a blootbot |
| 23:53.40 | TecnoBrat | purl has many "clones" |
| 23:53.55 | TecnoBrat | infobot, apt, I think there are others as well |
| 23:54.00 | kergoth | Gnarfoz, the bot 'apt' which resides int he debian channel is just another instance of this same bot / factoid db. |
| 23:54.06 | kergoth | apt, purl, ibot.jbot, and a couple others |
| 23:54.16 | kergoth | it used to be its own, but tim riker imported apt's data |
| 23:54.56 | Gnarfoz | yea, that's what made me wonder, because a while back I saw purl having factoids that referred to itself as 'apt' |
| 23:55.29 | kergoth | cours ea lot of people dont realize just how many channels the bot is in, and pollute the global namespace with channel specific references |
| 23:55.42 | kergoth | its multiple bots due to the max # of channels per user limit |
| 23:55.45 | kergoth | like 20 or something |
| 23:58.08 | zenzelezz | noob question... if I use $parent in a texture's name, does it get the name of the containing frame, or the containing frame's parent? |
| 23:58.52 | Gnarfoz | lol I like blootbot's motto: "The slowest and most bloated bot in the world" ;D |
