| 00:02.31 | bleeter | Shirik: same goes for users |
| 00:02.49 | Shirik | this is true |
| 00:03.06 | Shirik | I learned this from the 2 days I spent in #gaim |
| 00:03.09 | Shirik | couldn't go back after that |
| 00:03.15 | bleeter | must find that TISM inspirational poster... |
| 00:04.42 | bleeter | this is *definately* nsfw, or those who are offended by strong language... http://www.geocities.com/tismselfstorage/inpress240702.html |
| 00:04.59 | bleeter | "There's a very famous statement made by a Melbourne music promoter, he's a man who understands what true art means and I think he was able to sum it up beautifully. We now have it on the wall, in a beautiful plaque with a picture of crashing waves. " |
| 00:06.27 | Shirik | haha |
| 00:06.31 | Shirik | nice |
| 00:07.08 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 00:07.26 | bleeter | oh, oops.. this is the actual link :/ as I said, definately NOT safe for workplace, etc. http://www.geocities.com/tismselfstorage/cdks.html |
| 00:12.54 | Shirik | yeah I found it |
| 00:13.01 | Shirik | it's in a link at the bottom there |
| 00:15.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cursenet (n=Netx@69.109.103.158) |
| 00:16.40 | Thunder_Child | Snicker @ http://www.cruisegazing.com/RPG_Motivational/virginity.jpg |
| 00:17.03 | Shirik | Who here understands the concept of variable scope and has a few minutes to spare ^^; |
| 00:17.10 | Shirik | nm :P |
| 00:19.54 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v Cide] by ChanServ |
| 00:20.05 | Shirik | Sorry, cladhaire beat you, just in another channel :P |
| 00:20.15 | cladhaire | lol |
| 00:20.26 | cladhaire | i was parsing |
| 00:20.27 | Shirik | purl, hug Cide |
| 00:20.38 | purl | ACTION jumps into Cide's lap and huggles and *hugs* Cide |
| 00:20.38 | cladhaire | which makes wow have 5000ms latency |
| 00:20.38 | cladhaire | so i can't do much else while parsing =) |
| 00:20.38 | Shirik | haha |
| 00:28.10 | cladhaire | Shirik: So.. care to look at my serialize routine? |
| 00:28.11 | Shirik | sure |
| 00:28.19 | cladhaire | I'm not sure that's where my issue is, but I pull down 53 megs of data, and only serialize 35 of it. |
| 00:28.43 | Shirik | you're compressing it, yes? |
| 00:28.47 | Shirik | or is that pre-compression |
| 00:29.01 | Shirik | 53 megs? |
| 00:29.06 | Shirik | what happened to it being like ... 10 megs? |
| 00:29.08 | Shirik | or less |
| 00:29.13 | cladhaire | this is all pre-parsing |
| 00:29.15 | cladhaire | so ignore the numbrs |
| 00:29.15 | cladhaire | http://wowi.pastey.net/9606 |
| 00:29.19 | cladhaire | its still small in game =) |
| 00:29.37 | Shirik | you... |
| 00:29.41 | Shirik | aren't trying to do this in-game right? |
| 00:30.23 | cladhaire | ... no |
| 00:30.24 | cladhaire | why? |
| 00:30.24 | Shirik | ok good |
| 00:30.24 | Shirik | cause file:write won't work in game :P |
| 00:30.24 | cladhaire | indeed |
| 00:30.24 | cladhaire | i find lua to be quite agreeable when parsing text =) |
| 00:31.47 | Shirik | line 12 is too long :P |
| 00:32.01 | Shirik | er... nm |
| 00:32.03 | Shirik | I was smoking something |
| 00:33.27 | cladhaire | its a naive implementation, and I don't think the error is here, but I'm hunting at this point |
| 00:33.38 | cladhaire | I've solved the overall problem, by serializing each page as it arrives |
| 00:33.44 | cladhaire | I'm just boggled =) |
| 00:33.55 | Shirik | just out of curiosity though |
| 00:33.58 | Shirik | you don't want to save the keys? |
| 00:34.06 | Shirik | of a table you serialize? |
| 00:34.28 | Shirik | oh I see |
| 00:34.29 | cladhaire | yes I do |
| 00:34.34 | Shirik | I need to read the whole thing before I comment on it |
| 00:34.36 | cladhaire | lol |
| 00:35.49 | cladhaire | 1/5th done on hopefully my last dump |
| 00:36.20 | Shirik | it looks fine to me |
| 00:36.22 | Shirik | but I have to ask |
| 00:36.26 | Shirik | what is the purpose of the variable recurse? |
| 00:36.36 | Shirik | oh! |
| 00:36.37 | Shirik | I got it |
| 00:36.46 | Shirik | no it looks good |
| 00:37.03 | cladhaire | recurse is a nasty hack =) |
| 00:37.05 | cladhaire | but it works |
| 00:37.16 | cladhaire | so, next question.. _when_ should I load my data... in response to what? |
| 00:37.24 | Shirik | you don't actually need it I believe |
| 00:37.29 | Shirik | you could test if indent == " " |
| 00:37.33 | Shirik | (two spaces) |
| 00:37.37 | cladhaire | ah yes, I could =) |
| 00:37.49 | cladhaire | i wrote serialize() a long time ago, and just added that for this purpose :P |
| 00:37.57 | cladhaire | its a fun utility function for parsing and bridging to lua tables, tho |
| 00:37.58 | Shirik | but it looks solid |
| 00:38.22 | cladhaire | s/solid/not fubar'd/ |
| 00:38.24 | cladhaire | k thanks. |
| 00:38.24 | cladhaire | =) |
| 00:38.35 | Shirik | heh |
| 00:38.44 | Shirik | when should you load your data |
| 00:38.48 | cladhaire | 18 Megs down.. only 42 to go. |
| 00:38.56 | cladhaire | the parsing is uber quick tho ;-) |
| 00:39.06 | Shirik | well, I guess I don't understand entirely what you're trying to do |
| 00:39.08 | cladhaire | the web scrape is the long part.. i just take the page en masse and parse on the local side |
| 00:39.10 | Shirik | when do you display the comments? |
| 00:39.13 | cladhaire | Shirik: Okay, so LightHeaded exists. |
| 00:39.19 | cladhaire | right now, it loads the data when you open the quest log |
| 00:39.29 | cladhaire | this poses a problem for questlog replacement mods that i might want to co-exist with. |
| 00:39.41 | cladhaire | I'm trying to decide when/what would be a good place/time to load the data |
| 00:40.07 | Shirik | well questlog replacement mods (granted I don't use them) they must hook the function which shows the questlog, right? |
| 00:40.21 | Shirik | hm or overwrite it |
| 00:40.51 | cladhaire | or not use it at all, they just hijack the binding... or something =) |
| 00:41.01 | cladhaire | some have buttons, many different ways to open, etc. |
| 00:41.06 | Shirik | well what you chose is the most logical, but you're right... it does cause conflicts |
| 00:41.26 | Shirik | but |
| 00:41.31 | Shirik | if they're going to replace the quest log |
| 00:41.35 | cladhaire | I was wondering |
| 00:41.37 | Shirik | how are you ever going to show your information? |
| 00:41.39 | cladhaire | what about GetQuestLogTitle() |
| 00:41.48 | Shirik | if they replace the quest log, then you never catch them clicking on a quest, right? |
| 00:41.51 | cladhaire | Shirik: They could hook into my database, using the API i don't have written =) |
| 00:42.05 | cladhaire | and display the info themselvs. |
| 00:42.09 | Shirik | ok, then if they're going to do that |
| 00:42.14 | Shirik | write an API that loads the DB |
| 00:42.25 | cladhaire | or ensures its loaded? |
| 00:42.36 | cladhaire | I'll work something out, i'm sure =) |
| 00:42.38 | Shirik | or you could have your API check if it's loaded and load if necessary |
| 00:42.49 | cladhaire | i dont ahve much more time for this project after this, heh |
| 00:43.08 | Shirik | :)( |
| 00:43.10 | Shirik | :( ** |
| 00:49.08 | Shirik | cladhaire: Have you ever tested what the actual limit is? Exactly? |
| 00:49.17 | cladhaire | what do you mean limit? |
| 00:49.21 | Shirik | Like if you give it 10MB it serializes 10MB right? |
| 00:49.38 | Shirik | but if you give it 50MB it only does 30ish? |
| 00:49.50 | cladhaire | well .. i can write any amount of data to a file. |
| 00:50.02 | cladhaire | for example, right nowi opened the file ahead of time, and i'm serializing over and over again |
| 00:50.10 | cladhaire | and its not overly recursive, the table is very flat |
| 00:50.13 | cladhaire | and doesn't error |
| 00:50.35 | KarlThePagan | Cide, ;) I was being fed rumors that CTRA wasn't updating - but I just saw your curse-gaming update ... cool |
| 00:50.49 | KarlThePagan | err wasn't going to be updated even |
| 00:51.17 | Shirik | KarlThePagan: Or you could use the WoWI updater and not have to worry about figuring out if it's been updated!! |
| 00:51.25 | Shirik | 20:28:26 ‹@cladhaire› I'm not sure that's where my issue is, but I pull down 53 megs of data, and only serialize 35 of it. |
| 00:51.34 | Shirik | so... it's not serializing everything? |
| 00:51.41 | KarlThePagan | keylogger LOLOLOL |
| 00:51.43 | KarlThePagan | just kidding ;) |
| 00:51.46 | Shirik | :( |
| 00:51.50 | cladhaire | Shirik: thats the end result. I don't believe the issue is in the serialzation function |
| 00:51.58 | cladhaire | kergoth: I plan to, that seems to be the most popular replacement |
| 00:52.01 | cladhaire | where can I get it? |
| 00:52.11 | cladhaire | after I get this next update parsed, I'm gonna get in game and try to fix some bugs/things |
| 00:52.18 | cladhaire | especially the hardlock of the client.. that one is boggling me =) |
| 00:52.20 | kergoth | umm i know its in wowace svn, not sure if its hit wowi or not, havent looked |
| 00:52.26 | Shirik | Yeah I don't think it is either; I was just wondering that perhaps there might be a logical explanation |
| 00:52.32 | cladhaire | oh okau, i just didn't know it if was ace, or whatever |
| 00:52.32 | Shirik | like if it had written exactly 32,767 bytes |
| 00:52.40 | Shirik | kbytes* that might signify something |
| 00:52.41 | cladhaire | nah, thats the first thing i checked. |
| 00:52.57 | KarlThePagan | Shirik, considering that ctra was just updated today there's not much of a difference between WoWI updater and the old fashioned way in this case ;) |
| 00:53.20 | Shirik | considering the wowi updater hasn't really been released, there's a huge difference |
| 00:53.24 | Shirik | one way will get it updated, one way won't. |
| 00:53.28 | Shirik | The manual way will :P |
| 00:53.55 | Shirik | btw can I ask why you were on the evil site curse gaming? |
| 00:54.04 | cladhaire | ? |
| 00:54.06 | Shirik | You like speaking to the devil? |
| 00:54.07 | Shirik | =P |
| 00:54.14 | cladhaire | that's, unreasonably hostile, heh |
| 00:54.21 | Shirik | joking jeesh >< |
| 00:54.25 | cladhaire | hehe i know |
| 00:55.02 | KarlThePagan | website wars are of the devil |
| 00:55.27 | Kemayo | cladhaire: Well, the most popular replacement is probably actually MonkeyQuest. |
| 00:55.43 | cladhaire | Kemayo: aye, but everyone who's commented so far asks about nquestlog |
| 00:56.27 | kergoth | probably since the first one of those wowhead quest info mods was for it, afaik |
| 00:56.36 | Cide | KarlThePagan: I'll update it when it needs updating :) |
| 00:56.38 | cladhaire | fair enough =) |
| 00:56.58 | Cide | then again |
| 00:56.59 | cladhaire | kergoth: I'm accepting ideas of visually where stuff should go =) |
| 00:57.03 | Cide | I wasn't the one that updated it today |
| 00:57.21 | Shirik | lua is destroying my computer >< |
| 00:57.26 | cladhaire | for why? |
| 00:57.28 | Shirik | oh good it stopped |
| 00:57.37 | Shirik | I tried to use your serialize function to test it out |
| 00:57.42 | Shirik | so I made an 80MB table |
| 00:57.49 | cladhaire | lol |
| 00:57.51 | Kemayo | What exactly does LightHeaded do? (I just read back through the last 6 hours of this channel, and I know it's a quest-related addon, involving stuff from the web.) |
| 00:57.55 | Shirik | which took an extremely long time, and then said "not enough memory" |
| 00:58.07 | Shirik | so I wonder if that's the problem - how are you running this? |
| 00:58.10 | cladhaire | Kemayo: you can find it on wowinterface |
| 00:58.15 | cladhaire | but it displays all wowhead comments, for a given quest, in game |
| 00:58.22 | cladhaire | so you don't have to alt-tab out to get help |
| 00:58.26 | KarlThePagan | Cide, - http://www-en.curse-gaming.com/files/details/491/ct-raidassist/ version 2.001 non-official? |
| 00:58.40 | cladhaire | Shirik: its just running on my machine, via lua |
| 00:58.47 | cladhaire | Shirik: I dont get to 80 megs tho |
| 00:59.24 | cladhaire | "The Horde Needs More Copper Bars!" |
| 01:00.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mike-N-Go (n=MikeNGoS@64.193.93.197) |
| 01:01.37 | Shirik | testing the theoretical limit I can only make a table of about 17MB before it crashes out, so perhaps that's the problem. This is just from the default compiled lua.exe |
| 01:02.10 | Shirik | if that's the case then it's nothing you did :) |
| 01:02.19 | cladhaire | nah i know i can do more than that |
| 01:02.24 | cladhaire | and i'm done now =) |
| 01:02.24 | Shirik | I take that bakc |
| 01:02.27 | Shirik | it just froze up for a bit |
| 01:02.28 | Shirik | 33MB |
| 01:02.41 | Shirik | 33554000 |
| 01:02.41 | Shirik | not enough memory |
| 01:02.41 | Shirik | > |
| 01:03.05 | Shirik | but good you're done :) |
| 01:03.10 | Shirik | I kinda look forward to this |
| 01:03.12 | Shirik | could be helpful for me |
| 01:03.23 | Shirik | Next you need to make one for wowwiki! |
| 01:03.30 | Shirik | All of the contents of wowwiki at your wow desktop |
| 01:03.58 | Shirik | guessing that would be humongous |
| 01:04.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=masked@c-76-104-130-0.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 01:04.12 | cladhaire | lol |
| 01:04.20 | cladhaire | i'd have to transform the text, the huffman, then LZ77 |
| 01:04.23 | cladhaire | it'd be.. freaking nuts. |
| 01:04.32 | cladhaire | the transform is the only one i dont have written |
| 01:04.36 | Shirik | or you could be like most other wow addon authors |
| 01:04.42 | Shirik | and use it straight-up, no compression |
| 01:05.00 | Shirik | 2.1 will have no memory limit too! |
| 01:05.37 | Cide | KarlThePagan: no, that's official but I didn't put it up |
| 01:05.42 | KarlThePagan | ok |
| 01:05.49 | cladhaire | Shirik: yep, I'm hitting some limit somewhere |
| 01:05.57 | cladhaire | the issue moved further down the pipe |
| 01:06.05 | KarlThePagan | Cide, whoever did - tell them "changelog plx" |
| 01:06.13 | cladhaire | luckily i can convert that section over too |
| 01:09.10 | cladhaire | Shirik: that's weird.. i wonder what limit I'm hitting |
| 01:09.13 | cladhaire | without getting any errors O.o |
| 01:09.16 | Kaso | Cide are you around? |
| 01:10.25 | Kemayo | cladhaire: Is LightHeaded's overall structure stable enough that I could throw something into a module for my quests addon to make LH pop up its frame at appropriate points? |
| 01:10.51 | cladhaire | it should/will be after this next update |
| 01:10.56 | cladhaire | what quest addon? |
| 01:11.02 | Kemayo | QuestsFu |
| 01:11.22 | cladhaire | there's no API right now, but you can work to help define it if you'd like =) |
| 01:11.28 | cladhaire | the only identifiers we have are quest name and level |
| 01:11.30 | cladhaire | _BUT_ |
| 01:11.45 | cladhaire | i collapse all comments into that key, but specify what wowhead quest id they're for |
| 01:11.54 | cladhaire | which i can properly thread things eventually |
| 01:12.31 | cladhaire | Shirik: 2MiB per faction |
| 01:12.36 | cladhaire | which isn't too bad, considering the amount of data I have |
| 01:13.51 | Kemayo | (Looking at the version on WoWI, here.) It looks like the main thing I'd need to be able to do that is to be able to pass a quest index to QuestOnClick, which it would use instead of the output from GetQuestLogSelection if present. |
| 01:14.04 | cladhaire | Kemayo: yeah, we can abstract the API |
| 01:14.08 | cladhaire | this was just a proof of concept |
| 01:14.11 | cladhaire | that's becoming a real mod =) |
| 01:14.13 | Cide | Kaso: ya, kinda |
| 01:14.35 | cladhaire | i should make a gcode project for this |
| 01:14.38 | cladhaire | or one for me overall |
| 01:15.17 | Kaso | Im not 100% sure i have the latest version but im notcing a issue with CT_BuffMod where if your netherbloom posibvite buff is repalced by a negative one, it screws up buffmod's buff/debuff coloring |
| 01:26.05 | cladhaire | what color should my links be? |
| 01:26.08 | cladhaire | someone decide for me =) |
| 01:26.18 | cladhaire | i.e. when the comment contains http://some.web.addy.here. |
| 01:26.29 | cladhaire | ooh blue |
| 01:26.29 | cladhaire | good idea! |
| 01:29.22 | Tain | Plaid. |
| 01:29.27 | cladhaire | mmm |
| 01:29.29 | cladhaire | plaid |
| 01:30.41 | JoshBorke | i like teal |
| 01:30.47 | JoshBorke | that's what color mine are |
| 01:34.27 | Cide | Kaso: ya, known issue |
| 01:34.53 | Kaso | Hokay, so long as you know. about it |
| 01:40.53 | *** join/#wowi-lounge TheStig (i=illus@68.171.100.105) |
| 01:41.09 | cladhaire | should i cache unencrypted values? |
| 01:50.21 | cladhaire | >>> 255 / tonumber("33", 16) |
| 01:51.09 | cladhaire | 0.2 stupidface =/ |
| 01:52.58 | Cide | now try |
| 01:53.06 | cladhaire | nah syntax was wrong either way =) |
| 01:53.25 | cladhaire | anyone know offhand what the gold color int he game is? |
| 01:53.29 | cladhaire | the GameFontNormal one? |
| 01:54.50 | cladhaire | 1, .82, 0 |
| 01:54.51 | cladhaire | btw =) |
| 01:54.53 | Kaso | 1, 0.82, 0 |
| 01:55.01 | Kaso | damn you! |
| 01:55.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik (i=nospam@rrcs-67-78-171-230.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 01:55.28 | Shirik | I hate my ISP |
| 01:57.06 | Kirkburn|afk | Another Hero Classes rumour - http://www.odinneke.nl/2007/03/28/an-interesting-read/ |
| 01:57.56 | Shirik | Not getting involved in any more hero classes rumors >< |
| 01:58.00 | Shirik | the first one was enough >< |
| 01:58.39 | cladhaire | Shirik: What color for the comment hyperlinks, and the actual http://blah.com url's. |
| 01:58.52 | Shirik | light blue |
| 01:58.59 | cladhaire | for which>? |
| 01:59.01 | cladhaire | cause they're different |
| 01:59.05 | Shirik | oh you want em different? |
| 01:59.06 | Shirik | hrm |
| 01:59.18 | Shirik | maybe |
| 01:59.21 | cladhaire | Cide: imagelink still doesn't take .png images =/ |
| 01:59.28 | Shirik | light blue comments, red urls? |
| 01:59.37 | Shirik | what do "comment hyperlinks" do? |
| 01:59.41 | Shirik | link to another comment? |
| 01:59.48 | cladhaire | let you pop the comment up into the ItemRefTooltip |
| 01:59.51 | cladhaire | so you can keep it on screen |
| 01:59.53 | Shirik | ahh |
| 02:00.03 | Shirik | yeah I like light blue for those ^^ |
| 02:00.07 | Shirik | but it's personal opinion and nothing more |
| 02:00.27 | cladhaire | i'm posting a SS |
| 02:00.29 | cladhaire | so you can see the overall style |
| 02:00.29 | cladhaire | i have green right now |
| 02:00.34 | cladhaire | mind giving me the decimal nums of a shade you like? =) |
| 02:00.34 | Shirik | cool |
| 02:00.41 | cladhaire | http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2609/picture1bu8.png |
| 02:00.43 | Shirik | yeah let me find it, I know the perfect color ^^ |
| 02:00.59 | Cide | cladhaire: imagelink is like.. not maintained anymore :P |
| 02:01.04 | cladhaire | hehehe BOO =) |
| 02:01.41 | Shirik | WoW color code 999999FF |
| 02:01.41 | JoshBorke | cladhaire: don't you just LOVE SimpleHTML? :-D |
| 02:01.48 | Shirik | you may want FF9999FF |
| 02:01.49 | *** join/#wowi-lounge GomiSensei (i=tonyd@d205-250-164-37.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 02:01.50 | cladhaire | JoshBorke: i've never used it in an addon |
| 02:02.34 | JoshBorke | it's not bad except CENTER/RIGHT alignment doesn't change on frame size change |
| 02:02.56 | cladhaire | oh that sucks |
| 02:02.57 | Shirik | wow |
| 02:02.58 | cladhaire | i need a way to indent |
| 02:03.01 | cladhaire | thats my current challenge |
| 02:03.06 | Shirik | what is that quest log you have? |
| 02:03.08 | JoshBorke | tabs don't work? |
| 02:03.09 | Shirik | is that part of what you wrote? |
| 02:03.15 | JoshBorke | iriel's doublewide i believe |
| 02:03.20 | cladhaire | Shirik: no, thats a simple addon by Iriel and Kudane |
| 02:03.23 | cladhaire | Doublewide |
| 02:03.23 | Shirik | I need that |
| 02:03.32 | JoshBorke | cladhaire: you should be able to insert a tab character |
| 02:03.32 | cladhaire | JoshBorke: I dunno, they wouldn't wrap properly |
| 02:03.39 | JoshBorke | oh, hrm |
| 02:03.40 | cladhaire | i need entire comments indented, multi-line |
| 02:03.46 | JoshBorke | oh, multiline... |
| 02:03.56 | Shirik | are you using AddText() or AddFontString() ? |
| 02:04.08 | cladhaire | AddLine() |
| 02:04.09 | Shirik | how do you build the tooltip? |
| 02:04.11 | Shirik | er |
| 02:04.12 | Shirik | that's what I meant |
| 02:04.18 | Shirik | hrm |
| 02:04.18 | cladhaire | but thats not what we're talking about |
| 02:04.19 | cladhaire | we |
| 02:04.20 | Shirik | oh? |
| 02:04.25 | Tain | Afro Samurai is on SpikeTV. |
| 02:04.28 | Shirik | oh |
| 02:04.30 | Shirik | that's not a tooltip |
| 02:04.31 | Shirik | my bad |
| 02:04.32 | cladhaire | we're talking about the frame, not the tooltip |
| 02:04.59 | Shirik | Actually I like that green |
| 02:05.01 | Shirik | keep it :) |
| 02:05.15 | cladhaire | heh |
| 02:05.18 | cladhaire | i thinik i changed it |
| 02:05.19 | cladhaire | i dont remember |
| 02:05.31 | cladhaire | oh no, that's what i had for that one |
| 02:05.34 | cladhaire | the URL's I changed to your blue |
| 02:05.41 | cladhaire | ooh |
| 02:05.42 | cladhaire | thats very nice |
| 02:05.45 | JoshBorke | cladhaire: i'm not sure that you can without inserting text in where-ever, which seems like way too much |
| 02:05.56 | cladhaire | JoshBorke: I may design something that makes it work.. if I can =) |
| 02:06.02 | cladhaire | just resize and move the fontstring |
| 02:06.07 | cladhaire | i'll end up needing to make my own form for this |
| 02:06.14 | JoshBorke | yea, html isn't gonna work for you |
| 02:06.21 | Shirik | is it really necessary though? |
| 02:06.30 | cladhaire | Shirik: For comment threading, yes |
| 02:06.30 | JoshBorke | which is a shame because i don't know of many mods that use it |
| 02:06.31 | cladhaire | eventually |
| 02:06.34 | Shirik | oh |
| 02:06.38 | Shirik | didn't realize wowhead supports that |
| 02:06.39 | Shirik | I don't use it much |
| 02:06.42 | cladhaire | and rated comments |
| 02:06.45 | cladhaire | i have all that data |
| 02:06.48 | cladhaire | just need to find a way to displaky it. |
| 02:06.54 | Shirik | Too used to thottbot |
| 02:06.59 | Shirik | which is very... very simplistic |
| 02:07.03 | cladhaire | ... |
| 02:07.07 | cladhaire | i think wowhead is more simplistic. |
| 02:07.08 | Shirik | sorry >< |
| 02:07.09 | cladhaire | *shrug* |
| 02:07.14 | Shirik | well the comments, |
| 02:07.23 | Shirik | thottbot just has one long list of comments for a given quest/item |
| 02:07.23 | JoshBorke | i personally think alla is the simplest |
| 02:07.29 | Shirik | no threading or any of that |
| 02:07.31 | cladhaire | Shirik: its the same at wowhead |
| 02:07.38 | cladhaire | and you can have threads at thottbot |
| 02:07.40 | Shirik | then I'm confused |
| 02:07.40 | cladhaire | and rating. |
| 02:07.51 | JoshBorke | no one thought my joke was funny :-( |
| 02:07.58 | Shirik | shows you how much I used those types of sites then >< |
| 02:08.06 | Shirik | I'll be quiet now |
| 02:08.10 | cladhaire | heh |
| 02:12.42 | Kirkburn|afk | Okay, instead of another WoW thing ... |
| 02:12.43 | Kirkburn|afk | Awesome CAD comic today - http://cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20070328 (the cast - http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/images/news/cnc3cast.jpg) |
| 02:14.48 | Shirik | nice Kirkburn|afk |
| 02:19.22 | Tain | ehn |
| 02:25.52 | Kaso | How did i totally miss out the fact that cnc 3 is coming out!? |
| 02:26.41 | JoshBorke | too much wowo? |
| 02:27.01 | Kaso | proberly prob |
| 02:28.37 | Kaso | Man its going to rape my computer, but i must have it |
| 02:30.27 | *** join/#wowi-lounge andross_ (n=andross@66.225.8.145) |
| 02:33.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge pomke (n=pomke@unaffiliated/pomke) |
| 02:34.52 | pomke | looking for a lua script that will take CharacterPrifiler.lua data (output from character profiler addon) and transform it into xml/yaml/plain text whatever, so its more easily digestible from python |
| 02:35.12 | pomke | anyone seen anything like this? |
| 02:35.20 | cladhaire | you can just write one, it'd be quite easy |
| 02:36.37 | pomke | I've been looking at the lua wiki on xmlparsers |
| 02:36.45 | pomke | http://lua-users.org/wiki/LuaXml |
| 02:36.57 | cladhaire | you don't need a parser, you need to output, which can be done pretty easily. |
| 02:37.01 | cladhaire | you can format it however you want |
| 02:37.05 | cladhaire | then parse it in python |
| 02:37.20 | pomke | parsing seems to be well covered, but trying to find something like 'nested tables 2 xml' |
| 02:37.25 | pomke | yeh |
| 02:37.39 | cladhaire | you'd have to write one |
| 02:37.39 | pomke | I was trying to avoid manually assembling xml though |
| 02:37.42 | pomke | ah ok |
| 02:37.43 | cladhaire | or write a parser in python |
| 02:37.46 | cladhaire | which shouldn't be tough |
| 02:37.49 | Tain | Fuck Lost. Fucking assholes, throwing new characters out there that no one gives a fuck about when there's dozens of threads unresolved. |
| 02:37.55 | pomke | a lua parser in python? |
| 02:38.01 | JoshBorke | purl, hug Tain |
| 02:38.13 | purl | ACTION gets a running start and tackle-hugs Tain |
| 02:38.13 | pomke | hmm |
| 02:38.32 | cladhaire | pomke: its not a difficult table format *shruG* |
| 02:38.56 | pomke | yeh just looking at some example output (I'm not a lua hacker) |
| 02:39.10 | pomke | could probably use pyParsing to break that up fairly simply |
| 02:41.55 | pomke | cladhaire: ha, I'm overcomplicating this ;) |
| 02:42.03 | cladhaire | i suspected so =) |
| 02:42.06 | pomke | json.lua |
| 02:42.08 | pomke | tada |
| 02:42.12 | pomke | problem solved |
| 02:50.56 | Kirkburn|afk | pomke, glad you got an answer here :P And glad that the wowwiki topic helped :) |
| 02:52.39 | *** join/#wowi-lounge tardmrr (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 02:52.39 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v tardmrr] by ChanServ |
| 02:55.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Funkeh`` (n=funkydud@host81-157-53-184.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) |
| 02:55.56 | pomke | Kirkburn|afk: ty :) |
| 02:56.05 | pomke | I have a new question actually ;) |
| 02:57.13 | pomke | is there a simple way to disable 'unsafe' operations in the standard lua interpreter? I found a json library that I can use to quickly output the CharacterProfiler.lua data as json (common interchange format) |
| 02:57.25 | pomke | but to do it I have to load the profile data |
| 02:57.47 | cladhaire | you could do io = nil; os = nil |
| 02:57.49 | pomke | theres nothing stoping someone uploading their 'profile' which happens to read my password file |
| 02:57.51 | cladhaire | that should be safe enough |
| 02:57.55 | pomke | ah |
| 02:57.55 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Cairenn (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 02:57.55 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 02:57.56 | cladhaire | *shrug* |
| 02:58.00 | cladhaire | you can uber sandbox if you want |
| 02:58.01 | pomke | ok, thanks :) |
| 02:58.04 | cladhaire | lua is extremely easy |
| 02:58.25 | pomke | yeh just from looking in the last hour it looks like a nice language |
| 02:58.37 | JoshBorke | purl, hug Cairenn |
| 02:58.40 | purl | ACTION hugs Cairenn tightly until Cairenn turns slightly blue |
| 02:58.40 | JoshBorke | night all |
| 02:58.48 | Cairenn | purl, hug JoshBorke |
| 02:58.49 | purl | ACTION hugs JoshBorke tightly until JoshBorke turns slightly blue |
| 03:07.52 | Tain | Poor Lost. Tried to create a dramatic ending that I'd care about and failed miserably. |
| 03:08.40 | zenzelezz | I think the main problem with Lost is it was a one-season series with delusions of grandeur |
| 03:09.25 | cladhaire | zenzelezz: they never resolved.. like.. anything.. ever =) |
| 03:09.35 | zenzelezz | seasons one was sweet, but they should have just ended it in some manner |
| 03:09.35 | zenzelezz | rather than drag on like they did |
| 03:10.02 | Tain | Nah, they should have simply continued Season Two like Season One. Instead they tried to get clever and drag it out. |
| 03:10.02 | zenzelezz | I don't think I ever figured the polar bear |
| 03:10.25 | cladhaire | LightHeaded updated: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info7017-LightHeaded.html |
| 03:10.25 | zenzelezz | Tain: well, true, if they could have stuck to the season-one style I would've loved it |
| 03:10.25 | Tain | I'm of the opinion that everyone on the island is a figment of the polar bear's imagination. |
| 03:10.27 | cladhaire | should be crash free now. |
| 03:11.01 | Kirkburn|afk | I read that as "rash free" |
| 03:11.14 | cladhaire | that too ;-) |
| 03:11.22 | cladhaire | for some reason, ToggleQuestLog() got really pissy when it was hooked |
| 03:11.26 | cladhaire | and i can't be bothered to find out why |
| 03:11.29 | zenzelezz | so you're a rash person Kirk? |
| 03:11.44 | Tain | Some lotion can clear that up. |
| 03:11.47 | Fin | did someone mention bacon |
| 03:11.48 | Kirkburn|afk | Well, duh, obviously |
| 03:11.55 | TheStig | Actually I quite fancy LOST in its current form and the path it has taken etc. etc. |
| 03:12.23 | Tain | That's ok TheStig. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Even if it is absolutely, utterly, and completely wrong. ;) |
| 03:12.48 | zenzelezz | there's a limit to how many plot twists and additional mysteries you can add to a series before it gets... just weird |
| 03:13.36 | TheStig | The thing is, most people in today's society are use to getting everything they want RIGHT NOW. It has truly became a fine example of instant gratification when it comes to everything, and that is where most people find their qualms with the way the LOST producers tell their story. There is absolutely no instant gratification, it defies our society's new rule book. |
| 03:14.17 | zenzelezz | the direction Lost took is a direct result of TV networks wanting big cash RIGHT NOW |
| 03:14.35 | Tain | There's a difference between instant gratification and creating arbitrary, unecessary plot points just to drag on a story. |
| 03:14.45 | TheStig | Haha, not really, LOST is quite expensive to produce and they would make the same money if they'd have just slapped something else into the time slot. |
| 03:14.50 | Tain | seebs_: Heroes |
| 03:15.05 | seebs_ | Huh? |
| 03:15.07 | Tain | ug stupid completion. |
| 03:15.09 | Tain | I didn't say that. |
| 03:15.20 | seebs | Oh, I get it. Silly completion things. |
| 03:15.43 | Tain | I actually said, "See Heroes" and it decided See meant seebs. |
| 03:15.54 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 03:15.59 | Nom- | (sigh) |
| 03:16.08 | seebs | I did finally get that feature completely disabled in mine. |
| 03:16.26 | Nom- | How the heck do you troubleshoot a script which is failing constantly in crontab, but as soon as you run it manually to try and find the problem it works flawlessly ? |
| 03:16.45 | cladhaire | Nom-: output stdout and stderr to a file |
| 03:16.51 | TheStig | LOST is about the adventure, watching it "in the moment" seeing where it goes, being lead down unexpected paths, but one can tell that the writers intended many things that are just now showing up right from the very beginning. |
| 03:17.04 | Nom- | cladhaire: Already being done in the log file |
| 03:17.06 | Fin | Nom-: probably not got some environment variables set up correctly |
| 03:17.14 | Fin | Nom-: check the PATh |
| 03:17.18 | Nom- | Environment is correct |
| 03:17.19 | Fin | s/h/H/ |
| 03:17.38 | Fin | hmm |
| 03:17.45 | Nom- | It's a perl script which makes a database connection |
| 03:17.54 | Fin | I didn't think that through properly did I |
| 03:17.54 | Nom- | All that works, but it bombs out a few lines in |
| 03:17.55 | Fin | what type of db? |
| 03:18.01 | TheStig | no it should have been s/PATh/PATH |
| 03:18.06 | Nom- | There are around 50 other scripts which do similar things that are worknig fine |
| 03:18.14 | Fin | what's the error? |
| 03:18.20 | Nom- | It's a database connection error |
| 03:18.23 | Nom- | DB2 database |
| 03:18.40 | zenzelezz | now this reminds me off my guild's spider-wing pulls in Naxxramas: http://www.cruisegazing.com/RPG_Motivational/agrocontrol.jpg |
| 03:18.45 | zenzelezz | *of |
| 03:18.45 | Nom- | It connects to the database, can pull down some results, starts looping through said results and it dies 2-3 rows in |
| 03:19.20 | Fin | do you have any kind of error message? |
| 03:20.42 | Fin | and are you testing it as the same user as it's running from cron? |
| 03:21.00 | Fin | cheese is nice |
| 03:21.07 | Nom- | [IBM][CLI Driver] SQL30020N Execution failed because of a Distributed Protocol Error that will affec |
| 03:21.10 | Nom- | t the successful execution of subsequent commands and SQL statements: Reason Code "0x124C"("011D")"". SQLSTATE=58009 |
| 03:21.24 | Nom- | That's the first time i've ever seen anything int he reason code |
| 03:23.51 | Fin | what time is the script running? |
| 03:24.35 | zenzelezz | http://www.cruisegazing.com/RPG_Motivational/buffup.jpg |
| 03:25.46 | Fin | Nom-: disconnects like that can sometimes be to do with network buffer sizes? is the server likely to be particular busy at that time for some reason? |
| 03:25.55 | Fin | oh |
| 03:27.18 | Fin | Nom-: might be a date problem - http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/db-derby-dev/200604.mbox/%3C1684243826.1144687260118.JavaMail.jira@ajax%3E |
| 03:28.08 | Fin | can't believe I searched for a solution, just shows how much I'm loving my real job atm |
| 03:28.31 | Fin | (for the record I'm not loving my real job atm) |
| 03:32.50 | Nom- | not busy at all, no :P |
| 03:33.59 | Fin | hope those questions or suggestions helped |
| 03:34.03 | Fin | good luck |
| 03:34.34 | Nom- | meh, the problem is, the query that fails has no date fiels |
| 03:34.44 | Nom- | It fails trying to get the next value for a sequence |
| 03:34.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge gnorlish (n=jaydee@cpe-76-81-38-253.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 03:37.22 | Fin | it's just a simple counter type sequence? |
| 03:39.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge seebs_ (n=seebs@mail.seebs.net) |
| 03:40.11 | Nom- | yea |
| 03:45.17 | *** join/#wowi-lounge tardmrr (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 03:45.17 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v tardmrr] by ChanServ |
| 03:49.49 | Fin | what time is the script running? is the db server's clock synced to where the script is running? are they in the same time zone? does the data have any automatically updated fields like timestamp or something? |
| 03:54.03 | Nom- | nope no updated fields |
| 03:54.06 | Nom- | All done through SQL |
| 03:54.21 | Nom- | There's nothing in the DB2 error logs i've just been informed |
| 03:56.58 | Fin | what about the other questions? same user, time zones, synched times? |
| 03:57.59 | *** join/#wowi-lounge tardmrr (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 03:57.59 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v tardmrr] by ChanServ |
| 04:01.28 | Nom- | same user, same time zones |
| 04:01.36 | Nom- | time is synced from a central server |
| 04:04.47 | Fin | is this sequence updated by anything else? |
| 04:05.21 | Fin | the server isn't saying "give me the sequences since <this time>" is it? |
| 04:05.54 | Fin | sounds like some weird network buffer thingy anyway, as a guess |
| 04:06.19 | Fin | are there any other scripts running at the same time from cron that might interfere? |
| 04:08.02 | Fin | does anything reset the sequence? |
| 04:08.12 | Fin | this has become a mission |
| 04:08.30 | Nom- | Can't reset the sequence |
| 04:08.36 | Nom- | It's a production system |
| 04:09.06 | Nom- | There are dozens of toher scripts running |
| 04:09.13 | Nom- | but this is a recent problem, and the script has been around for ages |
| 04:11.42 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@82-32-40-219.cable.ubr06.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 04:18.26 | Fin | Nom-: roughly how long has the problem been happening? |
| 04:20.00 | Nom- | couple of months |
| 04:20.08 | Nom- | compared to the script which has existed for a couple of years |
| 04:22.10 | zenzelezz | reminds me of what some guy told me once; the company he works for has used a log function for years, and without any modifications the compiler suddenly decided not to like it |
| 04:23.19 | Shirik | hrm |
| 04:23.20 | Shirik | this is a new one |
| 04:23.24 | Shirik | anyone ever seen this before? http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fnwaw2.png |
| 04:23.50 | tardmrr | holy balls peter is badass now |
| 04:24.14 | tardmrr | I've never sen that before Shirik |
| 04:24.17 | tardmrr | looks bogus to me |
| 04:24.21 | Shirik | neither have I |
| 04:24.27 | Shirik | no it's a real file on my computer, a file named C:\Program |
| 04:24.29 | Shirik | apparently IRC made it |
| 04:24.32 | Shirik | one of my logs |
| 04:24.43 | tardmrr | no, but the dialog looks bogus |
| 04:24.57 | Shirik | but... the contents are real :/ |
| 04:25.02 | Shirik | I really do have that file, etc. |
| 04:25.07 | tardmrr | rename it manually and restart |
| 04:25.13 | Shirik | meh, too busy right now |
| 04:25.16 | Shirik | I'll just leave the message |
| 04:25.52 | Fin | looks like it tried to create c:\program files\something? |
| 04:30.23 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Tem (n=tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 04:30.23 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v Tem] by ChanServ |
| 04:37.23 | Nom- | wooot awesome |
| 04:37.24 | Nom- | Banks are so nice to you when you make extra repayments on your loan :) |
| 04:37.50 | Nom- | Fin: Happens every 30 minutes for days at a time until we run it manually and it works |
| 04:38.28 | Fin | Nom-: and then the problem goes away? |
| 04:43.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gryphen (n=masked@c-76-104-130-0.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 04:48.28 | Nom- | For a few hours |
| 04:48.32 | Nom- | Then it starts dieing again |
| 04:51.36 | kergoth | no matter how you slice it, my shaman doesnt look as menacing now that he's wearing a kilt :( |
| 04:52.34 | Nom- | Sure she does!@ |
| 04:53.40 | kergoth | he :P |
| 04:53.55 | Nom- | *tumbleweed* |
| 05:01.37 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Antiarc (n=Chris@wsip-70-184-82-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 05:04.02 | Corrodias | so as a druid, i should always take equivalent amounts of agility over dodge rating, even for dodge, it seems. it takes 14.7 points of agility to add 1% of dodge and 18.9 points of dodge rating to do the same, at level 70, according to this wowwiki article. |
| 05:05.15 | Nom- | If you're planning to MT anything, you should take defense over everything until you have 415 defense :) |
| 05:05.28 | Nom- | then you can stack agility and other stat |
| 05:05.52 | Nom- | It's really not *that* hard to get 415 defense |
| 05:06.01 | Nom- | My Paladin has 415 defense in DPS gear :P |
| 05:06.55 | Corrodias | it's not that hard, no, but i think a 1% greater chance of being crit might be worth a 3% greater chance to dodge all attacks |
| 05:07.07 | Corrodias | just at high levels of both defense and agility |
| 05:07.22 | Corrodias | if you had to make such a decision |
| 05:07.34 | Nom- | well what level of defense do you have now ? |
| 05:08.04 | Corrodias | with the chestguard of the talon instead of my heavy clefhoof vest, which is something i'm doing because of armor and agility, i have 407 defense |
| 05:08.37 | Corrodias | once i get my pvp belt, it will add some resilience, though |
| 05:08.59 | Nom- | well at the end of the day |
| 05:09.12 | Nom- | no defense vs 415 defense boosts you dodge rating by 2.6% |
| 05:09.28 | Nom- | It's more useful for a warrior class i guess |
| 05:09.49 | Nom- | because a warrior/paladin effectively gets a defense boost of 0.2% per point of defense |
| 05:09.53 | Corrodias | 2.6% is the magic number of crit i need to watch out for, yes? |
| 05:10.20 | Nom- | 2% actually |
| 05:10.28 | Nom- | but the other 0.6% is accounting for level 70 vs 74 |
| 05:10.30 | Nom- | *73 |
| 05:10.35 | Corrodias | ah, sure |
| 05:11.01 | Nom- | Basically 400 defense is immune vs equal level mobs |
| 05:11.09 | Nom- | 415 is immune vs +3 level mobs |
| 05:11.36 | Nom- | 407 isn't that bad...it's immune against 70-71 and almost immune vs 74 |
| 05:11.38 | Nom- | 72 |
| 05:11.58 | Nom- | You'll still get crit against a 73 mob now and again |
| 05:12.02 | Corrodias | i think it is around 1% vulnerable to crit from a boss, yeah |
| 05:12.33 | Nom- | That's why it's more usful for warriors and paladins to stack it |
| 05:12.44 | Nom- | Because we get block, dodge, parry, as well as the crit/miss chance |
| 05:12.55 | Nom- | You only get dodge, crit, miss |
| 05:13.05 | Corrodias | yar |
| 05:13.10 | Nom- | So defenese points to a druid are 40% less effective |
| 05:13.26 | Corrodias | thus resilience and agility become cooler |
| 05:13.46 | Nom- | well yes and no |
| 05:14.04 | Nom- | *shrug* at the end of the day |
| 05:14.13 | Nom- | resilience *should* make up for a defense defecit |
| 05:14.20 | Nom- | But i'm not sure the rating is that good |
| 05:15.18 | Corrodias | i will have to look it up, but i think resilience gives you at least as much -crit% as defense rating would |
| 05:15.53 | Corrodias | hm, maybe not. |
| 05:16.15 | Nom- | 1% crit needs nearly 40 resilience |
| 05:17.00 | Nom- | and we already know 490 vs 415 is 3% |
| 05:17.02 | Corrodias | 39.42 points of resilience per 1% -crit% vs... 2.37 defense which is... 2.37 points of defense rating each (what similar numbers)... for |
| 05:17.12 | Nom- | so defense is 25 per |
| 05:17.17 | Nom- | resilience is 40 per |
| 05:17.18 | Tem | wow I feel like a moron |
| 05:17.21 | Corrodias | 5.6 points of defense rating? |
| 05:17.43 | Corrodias | wait, 2.37 defense can't be right. i must have missed something, you're right |
| 05:17.45 | Tem | I've been watching this torrent anxiously for 2 hours as it continually slowed down |
| 05:18.04 | Corrodias | but 25 defense takes 59.25 defense RATING according to the Defense article |
| 05:18.25 | Nom- | ah of course yeah |
| 05:18.33 | Nom- | yeah so *shrug* |
| 05:18.38 | Tem | I only had like seeders |
| 05:18.48 | Tem | but I just found a tracker with 1200 seeders |
| 05:18.58 | Corrodias | thus you'll get about 1/3 more mileage out of an equivalent amount of resilience points than out of defense points if you're only looking at -crit%. the other effects are significant, but less so for a druid than for a warrior. |
| 05:18.58 | Nom- | Ok...the big question...does resilience come in larger gems than defense ? |
| 05:19.07 | Corrodias | there's the question :o |
| 05:20.31 | Nom- | I may be wrong |
| 05:20.36 | Nom- | But I can't see any resilience gems |
| 05:20.43 | Corrodias | well, technically, halaa has the +10 resilience jewel which compares to the +8 defense rating you'll find on the [Thick Dawnstone] |
| 05:20.53 | Corrodias | but that's a hell of a thing to get, 500 battle tokens each :P |
| 05:21.08 | Nom- | ah its only available on epics |
| 05:21.12 | Corrodias | i'll check leather leg pieces. let's see. |
| 05:21.30 | Nom- | +10 resilience is the biggest |
| 05:21.45 | Nom- | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27679 |
| 05:22.18 | Nom- | Costs 500 Halaa battle tokens :/ |
| 05:22.33 | Corrodias | defense appears to come in amounts about 50% greater than resilience on similarly-levelled items |
| 05:23.06 | Corrodias | just comparing heavy clefthoof leather pants to high warlord pants. which is a very small sample size. ;) |
| 05:24.28 | Corrodias | it's not true for neck pieces. resilience is coming in greater amounts in the ilevel 110 range |
| 05:25.12 | Nom- | http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30592 |
| 05:25.17 | Nom- | That'd be the way to go :P |
| 05:25.26 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Hondow (i=Myg0ticA@c-71-198-32-249.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:25.39 | Corrodias | yeah, up to your anticrit limit |
| 05:26.25 | Hondow | anyone here MT for Karazhan? |
| 05:26.56 | Corrodias | nope. i tried to OT on moroes, but i had several holes in my gear yet at that point. |
| 05:26.59 | Hondow | Tonight I tanked the Big bad wolf in the opera event |
| 05:27.08 | Corrodias | not sure how it went compared to how it should have gone |
| 05:27.21 | Hondow | At first i tanked him with 0 hit 511 defense 14.5 hp's |
| 05:27.26 | Hondow | 13k armor |
| 05:27.36 | Hondow | couldnt hold aggro for shit |
| 05:28.07 | Hondow | then i mixed some gear and came up with 410 defense 79 hit 12k hp's 11k armor |
| 05:28.19 | Hondow | was a Night and day difference |
| 05:28.32 | Hondow | as my sunders and auto-attacks were not dodge/blocked/parried |
| 05:28.44 | Tem | *sigh* |
| 05:28.45 | Corrodias | dodge, block, and parry are not affected by +hit, so you got lucky. |
| 05:29.01 | Hondow | contained aggro on him immediately after red riding hood debuff dropped |
| 05:29.01 | Tem | in such a huge swarm you'd think I could find a few people willing to give me more than 1kb/s |
| 05:29.19 | Nom- | You're not one of those warriors who keeps hitting sunder for the entire fight are you? |
| 05:29.27 | Hondow | no but i try to stack up 5 |
| 05:29.38 | Nom- | Yeah, but once you hit 5 it doesn't generate any threat :) |
| 05:29.51 | Nom- | You should tank him with a pally |
| 05:29.51 | Hondow | actually it goes sunder , sunder , sunder , Shield slam , Revenge , Sunder sunder |
| 05:29.56 | Nom- | It's all spell damage threat :P |
| 05:29.56 | Corrodias | from what i can tell, Lacerate continues to add threat once it's stacked to full |
| 05:29.58 | Hondow | y |
| 05:30.10 | Hondow | devistate |
| 05:30.13 | Corrodias | or that's what i've been told and it seems to work |
| 05:30.20 | Hondow | then shield block |
| 05:30.31 | Hondow | to get a block to make revenge avail |
| 05:30.43 | Hondow | my problem is on non tauntable mobs |
| 05:30.50 | Nom- | For some reason, warriors seem to generate very little threat these days |
| 05:30.51 | Hondow | they dodge block parry my hits |
| 05:31.03 | Hondow | and healers get 1 shottted |
| 05:31.04 | Nom- | Especially in Karazhan on undead/demon mobs |
| 05:31.08 | Hondow | ya! |
| 05:31.10 | Nom- | Nothing beats a pally for generating hate |
| 05:31.27 | Corrodias | especially from me |
| 05:31.29 | Hondow | Pally tank on trash in Kara is totally viable |
| 05:31.37 | Hondow | i think boss tanking though it's kinda sketchy |
| 05:31.44 | Hondow | just mana sponges |
| 05:31.45 | Nom- | Nah, boss tanking is easy |
| 05:31.57 | Nom- | As long as it's a decent boss, the pally should never run ooom |
| 05:32.16 | Corrodias | according to WoWWiki, "The threat effect continues to add, even after the fifth stacked Sunder, so a tank can keep on reapplying it, even after five sunders have stacked - it will still generate the same amount of threat." |
| 05:32.18 | Nom- | Anything that requires continual heal spams will keept he pally at 100% mana the whole fight |
| 05:32.22 | Hondow | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:32.47 | Nom- | Corrodias: That hasn't been updated i believe...our tanks have shown it applies bugger all threat after the first 5 |
| 05:33.09 | Hondow | also Devistate is a good threat gaining ability |
| 05:33.17 | Hondow | and reapply's the sunder effect |
| 05:33.30 | Corrodias | then i need to find some hard data... |
| 05:33.39 | Hondow | so usually after 5 stack every 10-20 secs you tap devistate |
| 05:33.41 | Nom- | If I forget to turn of Righteous Fury, I would pull off our MT with a pre-nerf Thunderfury |
| 05:34.04 | Nom- | post-nerf it's still pretty damn effective, just not as effective |
| 05:34.15 | Hondow | well really i came here hoping to find a definitive answer on 0 hit Boss tanking in karazhan |
| 05:34.19 | Hondow | being fine |
| 05:34.25 | Nom- | Hondow: I've done it on my pally |
| 05:34.27 | Hondow | i found out the hard way (10 wipes) |
| 05:34.44 | Hondow | before i finally said screw it im getting my hit as high as i can with the +hit gear in my bags |
| 05:34.47 | Nom- | But then again, 50% of pally theat comes from being hit by the boss :P |
| 05:34.56 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Shirik (i=nospam@rrcs-67-78-171-230.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 05:35.04 | Corrodias | 0-hit? you need 100% dodge/parry, eh? |
| 05:35.28 | Hondow | in full tank gear |
| 05:35.29 | Nom- | Realistically, you want *some* +hit gear |
| 05:35.33 | Nom- | But remember the base is only 5% |
| 05:35.48 | Nom- | on a boss mob, it's like 5.6% |
| 05:35.52 | Corrodias | and as i recall, it still doesn't help against dodge, parry, and block |
| 05:35.58 | Hondow | i have 511 defense 14.5k health 13k armor 0 hit |
| 05:36.02 | Nom- | no it doesn't Corrodias |
| 05:37.40 | Nom- | ah it's 3% per miss |
| 05:37.43 | Nom- | per level |
| 05:37.56 | Hondow | also i have found not having tactical mastery for fights to be a huge downer |
| 05:38.00 | Nom- | So you've got a *base* miss chance of 14% on a boss mob |
| 05:38.11 | Hondow | like going to bezerker rage to avoid a fear you know is coming |
| 05:38.20 | Hondow | then switching back to defensive stance |
| 05:38.34 | Hondow | and having to generate rage while the raid is feared |
| 05:38.41 | Corrodias | 3% per level? has it gone up? i recall a rogue-related discussion putting +hit% gear at 8% being the cap |
| 05:38.44 | Hondow | it's nice to have the 25 rage |
| 05:38.59 | Corrodias | back at 60, for bosses |
| 05:39.03 | Hondow | 14% miss rate at 0hit? |
| 05:39.11 | Hondow | NO FREAKN WONDER |
| 05:39.20 | Corrodias | and even with 3% per level that would be only 9% for level 73 |
| 05:39.35 | Nom- | Yes, Hondow... it's 5% base, and 3% extra per level if the mob is higher than you |
| 05:39.51 | Corrodias | ah |
| 05:40.04 | Kirkburn | I need a bit of help! |
| 05:40.09 | Nom- | So you want at least +10% to hit for dps |
| 05:40.18 | Nom- | at *least* 5% for tanks |
| 05:40.21 | Kirkburn | Can people go visit the wiki logged in or out and tell me if the links on the left ever change? |
| 05:40.54 | Kirkburn | Someone is reporting that they're changing, but his is the only report of it, and I can find no cause |
| 05:41.05 | Kirkburn | (specifically the navigation box) |
| 05:41.11 | Hondow | Nom then what hit Numeric value is 5% |
| 05:41.18 | Hondow | like hit 50 |
| 05:41.56 | Hondow | i dont know becuase hovering the mouse over the Hit rating numeric value seems kinda misleading |
| 05:42.04 | Kirkburn | (relevant link for the wiki - http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki_talk:Village_pump#Navigation_Bar) |
| 05:42.23 | Hondow | Hit Rating: 79 seemed just fine even though i had to make sacrifices elsewhere |
| 05:43.05 | Nom- | Hondow: Not sure...i'll see if I can find the formulae |
| 05:43.30 | Hondow | still i would like to stay at least at 490 defense |
| 05:43.43 | Nom- | 15.8 = 1% to hit |
| 05:43.45 | Hondow | I read on wowiki it caps there anyway |
| 05:44.17 | Hondow | lol 15.8 x 5 = 79 |
| 05:44.24 | Nom- | Yes, 490 defense is crit "immune" against a level 73 mob |
| 05:44.46 | Corrodias | this is so confusing on the wiki |
| 05:45.07 | Nom- | What is ? |
| 05:45.30 | Corrodias | trying to find what chance to miss per level difference is |
| 05:45.59 | Hondow | so we downed the big bad wolf and he dropped some leather healing legs and his paw |
| 05:46.17 | Hondow | that got me to thinking maybe i should go with some hit rating higher than zero |
| 05:46.19 | Hondow | lol |
| 05:46.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@216.84-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 05:46.47 | Hondow | cant believe we have downed curator , shade of aran with me having 0 hit |
| 05:46.48 | Nom- | It's 3% Corrodias |
| 05:47.09 | Hondow | plus all the trash pulls |
| 05:47.13 | Nom- | http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Critical_hit_chance#Modifier_to_Hit |
| 05:47.18 | Hondow | with Hit rating: 0 |
| 05:47.40 | Nom- | +to hit doesn't matter *that* much |
| 05:47.53 | Nom- | It matters more when the people around you start gearing up |
| 05:48.07 | Nom- | Which, if you're clearing Kara, is probably the case |
| 05:48.10 | Corrodias | i see, i see |
| 05:48.26 | Corrodias | but that information really doesn't belong in the "critical hit chance" article so much as the article on miss/hit chance |
| 05:49.06 | Nom- | DPS threat actually scales much faster with gear than warrior threat does |
| 05:49.45 | Nom- | Warrior has a pretty baseline threat output...it doesn't increase *that* much with gear |
| 05:50.07 | Nom- | Whereas people like warlocks and mages (especially), their threat just goes up with ebtter gear |
| 05:50.07 | Corrodias | 15.8 hit rating per -miss% = 167.48 hit rating as a cap |
| 05:50.44 | Hondow | This is my tanking build |
| 05:50.45 | Hondow | http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LVZE0zmZcEtohMdccot |
| 05:50.51 | Nom- | That's why you used to start tanking so much better when you picked up things like Thunderfury |
| 05:51.03 | Nom- | Because they just boosted your threat per second by such an insane number |
| 05:52.06 | Hondow | OMG the mage in my guild is scorch / fireblast build |
| 05:52.19 | Nom- | Yup, one of the best fire builds |
| 05:52.22 | Hondow | he is so hard to keep aggro off of , and the shadow priest |
| 05:52.30 | Hondow | jesus |
| 05:52.33 | Nom- | yeah, coz i'll bet he's stacked his crit |
| 05:52.37 | Nom- | rolling ignites ftw |
| 05:52.51 | Hondow | untauntable mobs |
| 05:53.01 | Hondow | usually kill the mage then the shadowpriest |
| 05:53.01 | Nom- | Yeah, lol :P |
| 05:53.03 | Hondow | then run back to me |
| 05:53.09 | Corrodias | a warlock and a shadow priest together is pretty nuts, too |
| 05:53.20 | Hondow | and im like sorry |
| 05:53.23 | Hondow | on vent |
| 05:53.26 | Hondow | they hate me |
| 05:53.30 | Nom- | a fireteam used to be so deadly |
| 05:53.36 | Nom- | until they nerfed rolling ignites |
| 05:53.55 | Corrodias | i used to get tons of rage, but once my dodge and armor started going up, now i find i don't always have as much rage as i want :( |
| 05:54.00 | Corrodias | that was a bad sentence |
| 05:54.10 | Nom- | use growl to your advantage, Corrodias |
| 05:54.16 | Corrodias | i used to get tons of rage, but now that my dodge and armor have gone up, now i find i don't always have as much rage as i want :( |
| 05:54.25 | Hondow | hey i appreciate your guys help , i need to hit the sack gotta get up 5am thanks a bunch i'll be coming back =) |
| 05:54.31 | Hondow | The Current Time And Date Is 4::0 10:53:38 pm 4::0 Wednesday March 28 2007 4:: |
| 05:54.38 | Nom- | Hondow: The best thing you can do, once your gear gets better, respec into arms/fury |
| 05:54.41 | Corrodias | yeah, i will sometimes just back down from using abilities until i have some rage and then growl + mangle + lacerate again |
| 05:54.42 | Nom- | get some more threat generating abilities |
| 05:54.55 | Hondow | arms / fury for tanking kara?! |
| 05:55.01 | Hondow | that's blasphemous |
| 05:55.04 | Hondow | =P |
| 05:55.07 | Nom- | Not at all |
| 05:55.25 | Corrodias | what we need to know is whether or not you continue to add threat by applying sunder/lacerate once it's stacked to 5. i've been told yes, and i've been told no. |
| 05:55.26 | Nom- | We're expecting our tanks to be tanking kara in 2-handers by the time we're clearing the first couple of 5-mans |
| 05:55.28 | Corrodias | i have a log, i bet. |
| 05:55.59 | Nom- | or at the very least in dps gear :P |
| 05:56.09 | Hondow | well we think of kara as a way to kill time while the guild gets geared for gruul's lair |
| 05:56.11 | Nom- | and that was 25-mans, not 5-mans |
| 05:56.23 | Nom- | well, not quite |
| 05:56.26 | Nom- | kara IS the gearing for Gruul's Lair |
| 05:56.32 | Hondow | well... |
| 05:56.53 | Hondow | honestly the mage and the shadow priest just run kara in Arena set |
| 05:57.12 | Hondow | they pass on most if not all the loot but that will change when we down the prince im told |
| 05:57.46 | Hondow | they're like #2 in 2v2 for the last 2 months or so |
| 05:57.50 | Nom- | Maybe not |
| 05:57.55 | Nom- | The arena sets are fukn nuts |
| 05:57.59 | Hondow | ya |
| 05:58.03 | Nom- | The arena gear is on par with T4/T5 |
| 05:58.05 | Hondow | nothing better in game right now |
| 05:58.41 | Hondow | i have only 2k arena points and saving for the 2h axe |
| 05:58.46 | Hondow | 3175 i think it is |
| 05:58.50 | Hondow | been like 2 months lol |
| 05:58.54 | Hondow | my teams suck hard |
| 05:59.10 | Hondow | i get around 504 per week |
| 05:59.23 | Hondow | well actually when arena's opened i didnt even play |
| 05:59.31 | Nom- | I've not even been in the arena |
| 05:59.44 | Hondow | for a few weeks then finally bought a ledger |
| 05:59.50 | Nom- | I levelled a pally from 1-70 |
| 05:59.53 | Nom- | That took a little time |
| 05:59.55 | Hondow | 2v2 is like 80g |
| 06:00.00 | Hondow | 3v3 is 120g |
| 06:00.06 | Hondow | 5v5 is 200 or something |
| 06:00.26 | Hondow | B/e ? |
| 06:00.31 | Hondow | or dranei |
| 06:00.59 | Corrodias | Karrion told me that sunder continues to add threat after 5 applications |
| 06:01.14 | Corrodias | but here's the question |
| 06:01.34 | Corrodias | why would you guys want to keep sunder applied at 5 if using it again wouldn't generate more threat? |
| 06:01.40 | Corrodias | you should let it expire and then apply it again |
| 06:02.15 | Nom- | Blood Elf |
| 06:02.43 | Nom- | Corrodias: Because there's other stuff you can use to generate threat, and sunders increase the dps of everyone else |
| 06:03.18 | Shirik | Corrodias - it does continue to add threat |
| 06:03.32 | Shirik | nm Nom- already answered >< |
| 06:03.38 | Corrodias | he said it doesn't |
| 06:03.53 | Shirik | every sunder generates the exact same amount of threat |
| 06:04.00 | Nom- | Yeah, they nerfed sunder so it doesn't apply as much threat once you've already stacked to 5 |
| 06:04.05 | Shirik | oh? |
| 06:04.12 | Shirik | that's... odd |
| 06:04.18 | Shirik | and also means KTM is going to be off |
| 06:04.28 | Corrodias | what makes you say that, Nom-? |
| 06:04.31 | Nom- | I saw it cdocumented somewhere |
| 06:04.35 | Nom- | Trying to recall where |
| 06:04.38 | Shirik | Since, afaik, KTM runs solely on wowwiki's documentation of threat calculations |
| 06:05.04 | Nom- | afk meeting |
| 06:05.27 | Corrodias | well, 2.0.10 patch notes don't say it |
| 06:08.02 | Corrodias | not seeing anything in blue.cardplace... |
| 06:11.44 | Karrion | KTM is based on Kenco's experimentation |
| 06:11.54 | Karrion | which is also the basis for the wiki docs |
| 06:12.07 | Shirik | ok, same difference |
| 06:12.44 | Corrodias | i do not see evidence that sunder changed |
| 06:12.47 | Corrodias | checking other patch notes |
| 06:12.57 | Shirik | Personally, I don't think it did; but I don't know much about warriors |
| 06:14.48 | Karrion | no mention of it changing on the EJ thread about Kenco's research |
| 06:15.20 | Nom- | bak |
| 06:16.14 | Corrodias | no mention of it in patch notes 2.0.1, .3, .5, or .6 |
| 06:16.21 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cncfanatic1 (n=cncfanat@164.65-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 06:17.42 | Karrion | so yeah, I don't believe it changed |
| 06:18.23 | Corrodias | i've been complimented on my threat generation when i use only lacerates and mangles |
| 06:18.49 | Corrodias | for that purpose, anyway. i use a lot of the other abilities, too. :P |
| 06:19.22 | *** join/#wowi-lounge cybane (n=cybane@cpe-75-185-73-189.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 06:19.28 | Nom- | hmmm |
| 06:19.34 | cybane | Wow more people than I expected |
| 06:19.38 | Nom- | I'm sure I read it somewhere |
| 06:19.41 | Nom- | I can't recall where though |
| 06:19.52 | Corrodias | you must find it! |
| 06:20.47 | Shirik | you thought we were unpopular cybane? :( |
| 06:20.52 | cybane | No |
| 06:20.59 | cybane | I did not think this channel was well known |
| 06:21.02 | Shirik | heh |
| 06:21.18 | Shirik | Well considering there are something in the hundreds of thousands of players of WoW |
| 06:21.26 | Shirik | this channel still only accounts for less than 0.1% of players |
| 06:21.34 | cybane | I am thinking about getting into Modding the WoW UI because well I have a vision of my perfect UI and I have found that I will need to make it myself |
| 06:21.42 | Shirik | Beautiful |
| 06:21.46 | Shirik | that's the kind of attitude I like to hear |
| 06:21.54 | Corrodias | 8 million accounts, not necessarily active, not necessarily each owned by different people, not necessarily played for anything but gold farming |
| 06:22.01 | Shirik | ha |
| 06:22.15 | Shirik | ok so if we cut out the 7 million gold farming/power leveling accounts |
| 06:22.36 | Corrodias | and the inactive, banned, and owned-by-the-same-person ones |
| 06:22.49 | Corrodias | how many people does that leave us with, i wonder? |
| 06:22.52 | Shirik | 2 |
| 06:22.53 | Shirik | you and me |
| 06:22.58 | Shirik | and you're sitting here chatting on IRC |
| 06:23.00 | Shirik | nice. |
| 06:23.13 | cybane | The only hurdle I have right now was why did they use Lua |
| 06:23.18 | Corrodias | you'd better go farm some khorium |
| 06:23.27 | Shirik | You know, when I first got into modding, I asked myself the question |
| 06:23.38 | Corrodias | lua is a very nice language, although its designers did a few things just to make it difficult |
| 06:23.40 | Shirik | I thought Lua was an ugly, horrible language, and couldn't fathom why they would use such a horrible thing |
| 06:23.49 | Corrodias | like using ~= instead of !=. that one keeps bugging me. |
| 06:23.54 | Shirik | As I started to use it, I began to realize it is extremely powerful |
| 06:24.08 | cybane | I wonder why we can't have Perl |
| 06:24.14 | Shirik | That along with the fact that it can be integrated with the WoW environment so easily, it is so obvious why programmers wanted to use it |
| 06:24.24 | Shirik | Trust me, Perl would be much more difficult |
| 06:24.36 | Shirik | Lua allows for the right amount of flexibility to get what needs to be done, done. |
| 06:24.36 | cybane | Perl I know lol |
| 06:24.50 | Gngsk | isn't lua designed to be plugged into larger programs as a scripting language? |
| 06:25.05 | Shirik | And that is precisely what they've done with it |
| 06:25.13 | Corrodias | lua itself is not typically compiled to a binary, afaik, correct |
| 06:25.24 | Shirik | I think the general intention was to make Lua run inside C programs |
| 06:25.27 | cybane | From what I found out Lua was desgined to be imbedded into apps for scripting inside the app but they also made it a stanalone |
| 06:25.46 | Shirik | they do make a standalone, but my understanding is it's really just for helping developers, not for making applications |
| 06:25.58 | Corrodias | there is a lua5.1.exe, yeah |
| 06:26.04 | Nom- | LOL |
| 06:26.08 | Nom- | CHECK OUT 2.0.12!! |
| 06:26.09 | Nom- | - Using the customer support "Auto-Unstuck" will now trigger the |
| 06:26.10 | Nom- | one-hour cooldown on the player's hearthstone. |
| 06:26.13 | *** join/#wowi-lounge rophy (n=Miranda@csw172.cs.nthu.edu.tw) |
| 06:26.15 | Shirik | ha |
| 06:26.19 | Shirik | it's about time they implemented that, seriously |
| 06:26.20 | Corrodias | where did you get that, nom? |
| 06:26.26 | Nom- | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=86916177&sid=1 |
| 06:26.28 | Shirik | actually, that's what the unstuck feature _says_ it will do |
| 06:26.32 | Nom- | Post by Drysc |
| 06:26.36 | Shirik | it says that it's supposed to use your hearthstone if it can |
| 06:26.41 | Shirik | otherwise it will try to "nudge" you |
| 06:26.50 | Shirik | that's been broken forever |
| 06:27.22 | Corrodias | cool |
| 06:27.42 | Corrodias | but wait, weren't we hoping for a lot more from the patch than a few bug fixes ?:o |
| 06:27.51 | Nom- | *shrug* |
| 06:27.56 | Nom- | It's only 2.0.12, not 2.1.0 |
| 06:28.01 | Corrodias | oh yeah |
| 06:28.07 | Shirik | wtb 2.1.0 t_t |
| 06:28.33 | Shirik | cybane: Let's think about one major reason why Lua is a great choice, for functionality |
| 06:28.38 | Shirik | with Perl, how do you make an array? |
| 06:29.06 | Tem | Shirik, there's a program to combine a lua script and a standalone interpreter |
| 06:29.15 | Tem | so that you can create standalone lua apps |
| 06:29.24 | cybane | Example |
| 06:29.27 | cybane | @coins = ("Quarter","Dime","Nickel"); |
| 06:29.29 | Shirik | yeah I'm sure it exists, but really I don't think Lua was designed to be a standalone language |
| 06:29.35 | Shirik | ok, can you access them via a name? |
| 06:29.41 | Shirik | something like coins["Quarter"] = 25 |
| 06:29.42 | Shirik | for example? |
| 06:29.53 | bleeter | http://www.blacksheepthemovie.com/ BAAA!!! |
| 06:29.54 | Corrodias | that's not an array |
| 06:30.10 | Shirik | ok, table. |
| 06:30.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Elkano (i=Elkano@client0939.vpn.uni-saarland.de) |
| 06:30.13 | Corrodias | if it were like that, with keys and values, it would be a Map (in java, anyway) |
| 06:30.22 | Nom- | lol |
| 06:30.23 | Nom- | lern2hash |
| 06:30.31 | Shirik | Anyway, cybane, ok we have that array |
| 06:30.35 | Corrodias | i like hash browns |
| 06:30.36 | Shirik | how would you go about adding something to it? |
| 06:30.42 | Shirik | like now add a penny? |
| 06:30.52 | cybane | So Lua lets you give values to your Array Elements? |
| 06:30.52 | Nom- | $blah{keyname} = 'value'; |
| 06:31.04 | Shirik | cybane: yes, but we're getting ahead of ourselves :P |
| 06:31.11 | Corrodias | it's not an array he's talking about; it's a table/map |
| 06:31.19 | Nom- | ie. Hash. |
| 06:31.20 | Shirik | Corrodias work with me here >< |
| 06:31.27 | cybane | LOL |
| 06:31.35 | Corrodias | okay, but arrays are tables with only numbers as indices |
| 06:31.37 | Shirik | Ok, let's get to the point |
| 06:31.42 | cybane | Arrays are just lists of Elements with no inhernit values |
| 06:31.42 | Corrodias | logically |
| 06:31.48 | Shirik | The point is, in the WoW UI environment, there is a global variable, SLASHCMDLIST |
| 06:31.53 | Shirik | which stores all the slash commands |
| 06:31.54 | Nom- | Corrodias: No, not really |
| 06:32.04 | Nom- | Corrodias: The idea of an array is that it has no index |
| 06:32.07 | Corrodias | Nom- work with me here |
| 06:32.15 | Nom- | Corrodias: A table has both a keyname and value stored, an array dow not |
| 06:32.20 | Nom- | s/dow/does/ |
| 06:32.25 | Shirik | sorry |
| 06:32.25 | Corrodias | but arrays are accessed by index |
| 06:32.28 | Shirik | It's named SlashCmdList |
| 06:32.36 | Shirik | It's a table |
| 06:32.40 | Nom- | Yes, but the index isn't stored... |
| 06:32.42 | Corrodias | item 5 would be null rather than nonexistant, though |
| 06:32.43 | Shirik | To add a slash command, it's extremely simple: |
| 06:32.45 | Corrodias | so you're right |
| 06:32.59 | Shirik | SlashCmdList["MyAddon"] = MyAddonsFunction; |
| 06:33.13 | Shirik | then you define your slash commands: |
| 06:33.26 | Shirik | SLASH_MyAddon = '/myaddon'; |
| 06:33.27 | Nom- | Although, I suppose whether there's an index or not depends on the storage method :) |
| 06:33.28 | Shirik | done. |
| 06:33.34 | Nom- | And how low level you wanted to go |
| 06:33.40 | Shirik | Whenever someone types /myaddon, you call MyAddonsFunction() |
| 06:33.52 | Shirik | this is one of the little things that Lua does easily that makes WoW modding a lot easier |
| 06:34.02 | Tem | Lua tables are made up of an array part and a hash part |
| 06:34.06 | Corrodias | we-ell... |
| 06:34.12 | Shirik | another nice thing is that every addon (and the blizzard UI) uses the same environment |
| 06:34.15 | Corrodias | that's partly WoW doing that |
| 06:34.17 | Tierrie | I think there's too much magic in WoW lua |
| 06:34.28 | Shirik | as a result, you can take a blizzard function and change it or overwrite it if you want |
| 06:34.33 | Tem | I think you have no idea what you're talking about, Tir |
| 06:34.35 | Nom- | If you broke an array down to the lowest level, then you'd find it's probably a linked list of structures |
| 06:34.36 | Tem | Tierrie* |
| 06:34.49 | Shirik | take the function UnitName(), which returns a unit's name. If you wanted to, you could go ahead and change that: |
| 06:35.06 | Shirik | UnitName = function(name) Print("Haha I haxxored your UnitName function"); end |
| 06:35.12 | Tem | Nom-, no you wouldn't |
| 06:35.19 | Nom- | I suppose you could abstract that out and say it's a list with memory addresses as the index |
| 06:35.23 | Shirik | it's the little things like that that makes Lua a logical choice. |
| 06:35.26 | Tem | *sigh* |
| 06:35.30 | Tem | Nom-, Lua tables are made up of an array part and a hash part |
| 06:35.44 | Tem | litterally |
| 06:35.45 | Nom- | Tem: I'm talking low, low level |
| 06:35.46 | Shirik | I think we scared cybane away |
| 06:35.48 | Tierrie | SlashCmdList["MyAddon"] = MyAddonsFunction then SLASH_MyAddon = '/myaddon' really doesn't make any sense unless you know what it does, I would have prefered RegisterSlashCommand("MyAddon", "/MyAddon") which then does the insertion for me |
| 06:35.52 | cybane | No I am here still |
| 06:35.56 | Tem | Nom-, seriously, go took in the source |
| 06:35.58 | cybane | I just think you all are crazy |
| 06:35.59 | Shirik | heh |
| 06:36.13 | Corrodias | in C? an array is a piece of memory that consists of sequential integers which are each pointers to other places in memory, if i recall |
| 06:36.22 | Tierrie | when I first saw that SlashCmdList[....] syntax, with my coding background, I thought "how the hell does this work?" |
| 06:36.23 | Shirik | Don't really worry, right now, about how exactly the whole slash command list works |
| 06:36.28 | Shirik | just understand that it's that simple to register one |
| 06:36.30 | Nom- | Tem: I'm also talking about perl arrays, since we somehow ended up on that topic |
| 06:36.30 | Tierrie | "that's just some assignment operators" |
| 06:36.45 | Shirik | Later in your Lua career you can investigate that; to be honest that's not a good place to start |
| 06:36.46 | Nom- | Tem: I *know* that LUA "arrays" are keyname/value pairs |
| 06:36.50 | cybane | I am not |
| 06:36.53 | Tierrie | then my second thought was "does lua do magic with assignment operators?" |
| 06:36.59 | Tem | Nom-, no they aren't! |
| 06:37.04 | Tem | that's what I'm trying to say! |
| 06:37.07 | cybane | The only question I have is about the secure and tainted thing |
| 06:37.12 | Shirik | ah that's fun |
| 06:37.12 | Tierrie | then my third thought was "fuck magic, fuck sigfried, fuck roy" |
| 06:37.20 | Shirik | remember when I said that you can override any function? |
| 06:37.28 | Shirik | how I just completely overwrite the UnitName function there? |
| 06:37.28 | Tierrie | then my fourth thought was "man I really like chocolate cake" |
| 06:37.38 | Nom- | Tem: I think you'll find they are...you're just not on my wavelength... |
| 06:37.43 | cybane | ya |
| 06:37.53 | Nom- | Tem: Whether they're stored in a structure as keyname/value or as two seperate arrays is irrlevant |
| 06:38.36 | Shirik | Okay, well that can (obviously) be a bad thing. Take the CastSpellByName() function, for example. It casts a spell, by passing the name in as a parameter |
| 06:38.36 | Nom- | Tem: It's still a keyname => value relationship |
| 06:38.36 | Shirik | Like CastSpellByName("Dispell Magic"); |
| 06:38.37 | Shirik | that's a protected function, meaning only Blizzard Code can call it |
| 06:38.37 | Shirik | anything else will error if it tries to call |
| 06:38.37 | Shirik | now... |
| 06:38.38 | Shirik | what if I did |
| 06:38.46 | Tem | Nom-, you will only end up with key-value pairs is if you use an array with large gaps in it (or negative numbers) OR use things other than integers as keys |
| 06:38.52 | Shirik | UnitName = function() CastSpellByName("Dispell Magic"); end |
| 06:39.01 | Shirik | now I can cast that spell by calling UnitName() ! |
| 06:39.08 | Shirik | Blizzard, for obvious reasons, doesn't want this |
| 06:39.14 | cybane | So it is tainted? |
| 06:39.30 | Shirik | So... when you overwrride a blizzard variable (note functions are variables in Lua), it becomes "insecure" (or what some call "tainted") |
| 06:39.38 | Shirik | insecure code cannot call protected functions |
| 06:39.43 | Shirik | this guards against that |
| 06:39.50 | Corrodias | protected functions are things like CastSpellByName |
| 06:39.53 | Shirik | it's a pretty simple concept, but it can cause a world of havoc |
| 06:39.58 | Tem | Any time secure code reads a tainted variable, it becomes tainted until the end of the execution path |
| 06:40.03 | Corrodias | to prevent things like Decursive from choosing the spell and who to cast it on |
| 06:40.04 | cybane | Why did they do that? |
| 06:40.09 | Corrodias | (old decursive, one-button-push) |
| 06:40.15 | Shirik | Because people used to do things like having addons make decisions for them |
| 06:40.19 | Shirik | Which Blizzard didn't want to do |
| 06:40.28 | Shirik | So, now only secured code can cause a cast |
| 06:40.30 | Corrodias | one-button players. you just hit the same key over and over |
| 06:40.34 | Corrodias | their addons decided what to do |
| 06:40.35 | Shirik | But... don't fret... there are ways to get things to cast still |
| 06:40.49 | Shirik | But... baby steps |
| 06:40.58 | cybane | ROFL What about Bob? |
| 06:41.09 | Shirik | Bob? |
| 06:41.27 | Corrodias | yeah, in fact, i think my UI can do -almost- everything it could before 2.0. i can't one-button-cure-anybody and i can't queue 5 different items to be crafted. that's about it. |
| 06:41.29 | cybane | Watch the movie |
| 06:41.34 | Shirik | heh, ok |
| 06:41.51 | Corrodias | what about bob?. i saw that. i don't remember it, except the baby steps thing. |
| 06:42.17 | Shirik | (note that when people talk about "before 2.0," they're typically referring to it because this was a time when CastSpellByName() wasn't protected and tainting didn't occur) |
| 06:42.19 | Nom- | btw, mouseover healing is the best thing since sliced bread |
| 06:42.20 | Nom- | ^_^ |
| 06:42.38 | cybane | I perfer Click casting |
| 06:42.50 | Tem | Shirik, actually, tainting has been occuring since 1.10, but it hasn't matterened until now |
| 06:42.58 | Shirik | Yeah, ok it didn't really matter :P |
| 06:42.59 | cybane | but since they netured my druid I am never playing him again |
| 06:43.15 | Corrodias | i target people to cast my heals, but i click-cast my decurses |
| 06:43.32 | Nom- | Corrodias: Try mouseover healing one day :) |
| 06:43.43 | Nom- | Lets you keep the boss targeted and keep healing |
| 06:43.53 | cybane | I thought the blizzard rule was one button push one action |
| 06:43.56 | Nom- | I tried it in Heroic Ramparts last night, found it immensely useful |
| 06:44.00 | cybane | A decision to be made is an action |
| 06:44.03 | Corrodias | hmmm |
| 06:44.18 | Shirik | No, basically addon's can't make decisions anymore, period. |
| 06:44.21 | Shirik | Well, they can't in combat |
| 06:44.22 | Corrodias | in that situation, if i needed to see what the boss was doing, i'd set him as the focus |
| 06:44.46 | Nom- | cybane: They want you to actually make a descision, not offload that decsision to something else] |
| 06:45.02 | Shirik | You see, it works like this. To get your addon to cast something, you have to create a "secure frame" for it, and set some "attributes" |
| 06:45.10 | Corrodias | even if your decision is "click this flashing box instead of that other, not flashing one" |
| 06:45.13 | Shirik | this frame could be a button, and the attributes tell it what to cast (and where to cast it) |
| 06:45.16 | Nom- | cybane: What Blizzard doesn't want, is for people to have a magic heal button for instance, which works out how many hitpoints need to be healed and chose the right rank of heal etc |
| 06:45.20 | Shirik | You can't change the attributes while in combat |
| 06:45.26 | Shirik | Therefore, it can't make decisions while in combat |
| 06:45.27 | Nom- | cybane: Because then the script/mod is making the decision for you |
| 06:45.35 | Shirik | But we're getting ahead of ourslves here, like I said, baby steps |
| 06:45.43 | Corrodias | except when you get into secure state headers! |
| 06:45.51 | Corrodias | yaaaay! |
| 06:45.55 | Shirik | One thing at a time, you're going to blow up his brain! |
| 06:46.01 | cybane | No you are not |
| 06:46.09 | Corrodias | i don't even understand the new model myself, but i don't write addons |
| 06:46.13 | cybane | I can handle a lot of off the wall information I do Tech Support rofl |
| 06:46.16 | Corrodias | and states just are too much for me |
| 06:46.23 | Nom- | Corrodias: Ok, what about this...you need to heal around the rest of the group, keep the boss targeted and heal the MT all alternately |
| 06:46.43 | Cairenn | no blowing up brains in here, it's so hard to get the stains out of the carpet |
| 06:46.48 | Nom- | My macros will now heal in this order: mouseover, targettarget, target, self |
| 06:46.51 | cybane | So blizzard wants me to have half of my hotbars full of different rank heals? |
| 06:46.51 | Shirik | haha |
| 06:46.52 | Corrodias | interesting |
| 06:47.01 | Shirik | What they don't want |
| 06:47.02 | Nom- | so i mouseover to heal someone specifically |
| 06:47.04 | Shirik | is the addon making the decision |
| 06:47.05 | Corrodias | cybane: well, i do |
| 06:47.11 | Shirik | it's up to you how you handle that |
| 06:47.15 | Shirik | in all honesty, you can have.... |
| 06:47.15 | Nom- | don't mouseover if i want to heal my target OR my targets' target |
| 06:47.16 | Corrodias | actually, i keep only 2 ranks of heal |
| 06:47.24 | Corrodias | you see, they reduced the effectiveness of +healing on lower ranks |
| 06:47.28 | Nom- | and if i have no target, it heals me :) |
| 06:47.31 | Shirik | 15 different actions |
| 06:47.34 | Shirik | for the same secure button |
| 06:47.35 | Shirik | with the right mouse |
| 06:47.47 | Shirik | 5 buttons, 3 modifiers |
| 06:47.49 | Corrodias | my healing touch never gets more efficient by reducing its rank. i'd be less efficient if i spammed it because i'd stay within the 5-second-rule constantly |
| 06:48.08 | Shirik | I happen to use 6 different actions on every one of my frames |
| 06:48.09 | cybane | Then why do they even allow macros |
| 06:48.20 | Shirik | macros follow the same exact rules |
| 06:48.23 | Nom- | cybane: Because there's a lot you can still do :) |
| 06:48.23 | Shirik | as addons do |
| 06:48.27 | cybane | Macros allow you to automate processes but it seems like they want everyone to not auto mate any process |
| 06:48.32 | Shirik | not really automate |
| 06:48.38 | Corrodias | macros are situational or have certain rules. they never make a decision for you. you can always predict what a macro will do. |
| 06:48.46 | Shirik | Yes, that's the important part |
| 06:48.52 | Shirik | it's still you making the decision, not the addon |
| 06:48.53 | Corrodias | if i press 5, i know what's going to happen |
| 06:48.59 | Shirik | The macro will always do the same things under the same circumstances |
| 06:49.07 | cybane | Like pet attack and cast(Hunter's Mark Rank 1( |
| 06:49.09 | Nom- | yah, like my healing macro |
| 06:49.28 | Corrodias | if i'm prowling, it'll pounce. if i'm not, it'll maim. if i hold alt while hitting it, it'll cower |
| 06:49.29 | Nom- | if i press '1' on my healing bar, it's always going to do the same thing depending on where i've got my mouse cursor and my targets etc. |
| 06:49.32 | cybane | However that is two actions one button bush so Blizzard violates their own rule of one action one button |
| 06:49.46 | Shirik | eh, don't get caught up in that "rule" |
| 06:49.56 | Corrodias | petattack isn't a character action, really |
| 06:49.59 | Nom- | It's not two actions cybane |
| 06:50.01 | Shirik | in general, anything you can do with the WoW UI is legal |
| 06:50.06 | Nom- | It's one action based on a very simple condition |
| 06:50.11 | Shirik | There are a few exceptions |
| 06:50.14 | Shirik | like cross-faction communication |
| 06:50.19 | Corrodias | such as spamming gold advertisements |
| 06:50.30 | Shirik | but yeah, if you can do it in the WoW UI, it can typically be considered legal (with some common sense) |
| 06:50.34 | cybane | Sending the pet to attack and casting a spell is two actions. I define a single action as one button push with the default ui |
| 06:50.39 | Nom- | You *can* generate more than one action using a macro but ONLY if that action doesn't trigger the global cooldown |
| 06:50.48 | Corrodias | "sending" the pet to attack doesn't count, i guess |
| 06:51.05 | Corrodias | not that i use such a macro, myself |
| 06:51.15 | Shirik | I have a pretty complex hunter macro that does a few things :P |
| 06:51.16 | cybane | I play a hunter and it saves time |
| 06:51.28 | Nom- | This macro is a good example of why the macro system is still useful and necessary: |
| 06:51.56 | cybane | So where can I find of list of what blizzard allows us to do? |
| 06:52.15 | Nom- | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:52.33 | Corrodias | /cast [stealth] Ravage; Shred; |
| 06:52.35 | Shirik | I like /cast Hunter's Mark /petattack [nomodifier:ctrl] /cast [pet:cat,nomodifier:alt] Prowl |
| 06:52.36 | Corrodias | very simple example |
| 06:52.50 | Corrodias | i don't have enough spaces on my action bar for those abilities if i can't combine them |
| 06:53.07 | Corrodias | cybane: glad you asked. there are macro tutorials... |
| 06:53.29 | cybane | No I mean of the API we can use |
| 06:53.32 | Corrodias | http://www.wowwiki.com/HOWTO:_Make_a_Macro |
| 06:53.42 | Shirik | http://www.wowwiki.com/API and http://www.wowwiki.com/Widget_API |
| 06:53.45 | Corrodias | wowwiki also has part of the WoW api spelled out |
| 06:53.49 | Shirik | is a concise list of the API |
| 06:53.54 | Corrodias | protected and secure functions are marked as such |
| 06:54.08 | Corrodias | secure functions? |
| 06:54.14 | Shirik | don't let it scare you at first |
| 06:54.15 | Shirik | it's pretty big |
| 06:54.22 | Nom- | My mage has a single button to conjure food and wate, which is useful too :) |
| 06:54.36 | Nom- | There's a LOT you can do with the macro, but it can't play the game for you |
| 06:54.44 | Nom- | Unless you're a warlock |
| 06:54.46 | Shirik | And that's what they wanted to stop |
| 06:54.47 | Shirik | ROFL |
| 06:54.53 | Corrodias | arr |
| 06:55.01 | Shirik | yeah /castsequence Curse of Agony, Corruption, Fear |
| 06:55.05 | Corrodias | don't they have a 12 second fear? |
| 06:55.37 | Corrodias | for a fun time, type /script WorldFrame:Hide() |
| 06:55.46 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Mortius (i=Mortius@ppp-71-128-207-76.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net) |
| 06:56.04 | Mortius | quick question: does ConsoleExec() work? |
| 06:56.05 | cybane | red = no touchy right? |
| 06:56.15 | Corrodias | red = there's no article for that function |
| 06:56.17 | Shirik | Mortius: Yes |
| 06:56.18 | Shirik | Why? |
| 06:56.33 | Corrodias | doesn't mean you can't use it |
| 06:56.41 | Mortius | hmm, if i do ConsoleExec(ReloadUI); it doesn't do anything |
| 06:56.43 | Shirik | in general, you don't need ConsoleExec but you could use it if you want to |
| 06:56.56 | Shirik | try ReloadUI(); |
| 06:57.06 | Nom- | ReloadUI can only be triggered interactively too |
| 06:57.08 | Nom- | Last i checked |
| 06:57.32 | Shirik | I don't know of any such restriction :/ |
| 06:57.41 | Mortius | yes, that will work, but I was wanting to use it to help correct bugs remotely for my friends that are running my ui |
| 06:57.42 | cybane | So let me guess people have not found a way to make their changes look like real blizzard buttons yet? |
| 06:57.52 | Shirik | ConsoleExec() should work |
| 06:57.56 | Nom- | Shirik: I know that was in the damn patch notes! |
| 06:58.03 | Shirik | out of curiosity, did you try all lowercase? |
| 06:58.08 | Shirik | I don't know if console is case sensitive |
| 06:58.14 | Shirik | but I always do /console reloadui |
| 06:58.17 | Shirik | or `reloadui |
| 06:58.39 | Shirik | cybane: What do you mean? |
| 06:58.52 | cybane | For example I push the button for Frost Armor on my mage |
| 06:58.55 | Mortius | basically what I have done is made it listen for whispers from me, then execute the command via ConsoleExec |
| 06:59.01 | Mortius | I don't just want to ReloadUI |
| 06:59.03 | cybane | It will execute CastSpellByName(Frost Armor) |
| 06:59.07 | Mortius | it doesn't work for anything |
| 06:59.11 | Shirik | you would need to make a secure button |
| 06:59.17 | Shirik | without going into detail why this works... |
| 06:59.26 | Corrodias | and show the cooldown, i take it |
| 07:00.06 | Mortius | How could I get ConsoleExec to like, issue a script? |
| 07:00.12 | cybane | So does blizzard run checks on their side to determine if you are breaking the rules? |
| 07:00.17 | Shirik | local myButton = CreateFrame("SecureFrame"); if ~InCombatLockdown() then myButton:SetAttribute("type", "cast"); myButton:SetAttribute("spell", "Frost Armor"); end |
| 07:00.22 | Mortius | Like ConsoleExec(/script blah blah); |
| 07:00.23 | Shirik | I think that's right, I'd have to double-check but yeah |
| 07:00.34 | Shirik | Mortius: If you want to run a _script_ that's pretty simple |
| 07:00.43 | Corrodias | GM's do keep an eye out for illegal behavior, but can you give me an example? |
| 07:00.43 | Shirik | once you grab the code, let's get that into foo |
| 07:00.56 | Mortius | It's more complicated than that |
| 07:00.56 | Shirik | fn = loadstring(foo); if fn then fn(); end |
| 07:01.04 | cybane | I am trying to word what I am thinking |
| 07:01.12 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Nargiddley (n=narg@203-97-236-74.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 07:01.16 | Shirik | So you can send a script to him to run, and run it |
| 07:01.28 | cybane | Ultimatly how does blizzard prevent people from sniffing out what make something secure and just sending the same information |
| 07:01.39 | Shirik | It's impossible to make something secure |
| 07:01.42 | Shirik | Because that's done in C code |
| 07:01.46 | Shirik | something we don't have access to |
| 07:01.50 | Shirik | we only have access to the lua half |
| 07:01.53 | Corrodias | secure and protected are controlled by your client |
| 07:01.56 | Corrodias | not their servers |
| 07:02.17 | cybane | So when you push the Frost Armor rank 1 spell in your spellbook what executes? |
| 07:02.29 | Shirik | basically, that is a button you're clicking on |
| 07:02.32 | Shirik | it's a secure button |
| 07:02.34 | Corrodias | theoretically, you might be able to circumvent these restrictions with memory hacking the wow.exe. but if warden didn't catch it right away, it might be updated to. |
| 07:02.40 | Shirik | that has its "spell" attribute set to "Frost Armor(Rank 1)" |
| 07:03.04 | Shirik | the button is blizzard code, which goes through its functions and eventually calls CastSpellByName |
| 07:03.28 | Shirik | Mortius: Did that help? |
| 07:03.29 | cybane | So is it possible to make the client think you are using a blizzard button but really using your own |
| 07:03.40 | Corrodias | nothing very easy |
| 07:03.42 | Shirik | You... don't really make your "own" buttons |
| 07:03.47 | Shirik | they are still blizzard code |
| 07:03.50 | Mortius | loadstring? |
| 07:03.59 | Shirik | if you tried to break through it, it would taint the button rendering it useless |
| 07:04.08 | Shirik | Mortius: Yeah |
| 07:04.16 | Mortius | let me try that real quick |
| 07:04.20 | Corrodias | you'd have to use rather advanced process hacking techniques, cybane |
| 07:04.28 | Shirik | It wouldn't be possible from lua |
| 07:04.29 | cybane | Not really |
| 07:04.30 | Corrodias | which generally wouldn't be worth it. just play the game. |
| 07:04.36 | Shirik | period |
| 07:04.41 | Shirik | You would have to go beyond that |
| 07:04.54 | Shirik | And going any further is the definition of hacking the client |
| 07:05.21 | cybane | I will have to look at the WoW UI Files |
| 07:05.32 | Shirik | Go for it, but tainting is found _nowhere_ in the wow ui files |
| 07:05.38 | Shirik | because it is not a lua function |
| 07:05.41 | Shirik | it is handled by the C code |
| 07:05.48 | Shirik | which is (1) something you can't touch, and (2) something you can't see |
| 07:05.51 | Mortius | no, im not getting loadstring to do anything.. do I need to preface it with "/script" or no |
| 07:05.55 | Shirik | nope |
| 07:05.59 | cybane | I understand that |
| 07:05.59 | Shirik | if you d... is Cide here? |
| 07:06.00 | Shirik | no :( |
| 07:06.08 | Shirik | If you did |
| 07:06.34 | Shirik | f = loadstring("DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(\"Hello World\");"); f(); |
| 07:06.42 | Shirik | it is equivalent to |
| 07:06.56 | Shirik | f = function() DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Hello World"); end f(); |
| 07:07.22 | Mortius | no matter what I put nothing happens |
| 07:07.23 | Corrodias | something you can't do in java, afaik |
| 07:07.24 | Corrodias | so sad |
| 07:07.29 | Shirik | Basically, loadstring() takes a string and parses it as code |
| 07:07.33 | cybane | Ah I found my answer |
| 07:07.35 | Shirik | Corrodias: In most cases it's something extremely insecure |
| 07:07.48 | cybane | Protected functions can only be used within Blizzard Signed UI Mods |
| 07:08.00 | Shirik | That's.... |
| 07:08.03 | Shirik | A bit poorly worded |
| 07:08.11 | cybane | Right from the Wiki |
| 07:08.11 | Shirik | Protected functions can only be used within secure code |
| 07:08.17 | Shirik | It's correct, just badly worded |
| 07:08.20 | Corrodias | there is a signed addon out there, "movepad" |
| 07:08.33 | Corrodias | code loaded from a signed addon is considered secure, i take it |
| 07:08.40 | Shirik | yes |
| 07:08.54 | Shirik | It's also to cause a signed addon to become insecure (taint it) |
| 07:09.02 | cybane | So rather what prevents someone from masking their UI mod as a signed Blizzard UI mod |
| 07:09.02 | Shirik | it's still signed, but it won't becalling protected functions anymore |
| 07:09.38 | Corrodias | Shirik: it's also "possible"? |
| 07:09.47 | Shirik | yeah sorry >< typing too fast |
| 07:09.58 | Corrodias | cybane: i don't know what makes an addon "signed" so i can't answer that. |
| 07:10.00 | Shirik | cybane: the same thing that prevents people from making fake SSL certificates |
| 07:10.14 | Shirik | They follow essentially the same theory |
| 07:10.26 | Corrodias | um... what's that called... |
| 07:10.27 | Corrodias | key pairs? |
| 07:10.45 | cybane | There is a public and private key |
| 07:10.48 | Corrodias | that's it |
| 07:10.55 | Shirik | that's the security part |
| 07:10.58 | Mortius | strange. I can't get loadstring to do anything for me.. I've tried a bunch of stuff. |
| 07:11.01 | Shirik | but there's also signing on that certificate |
| 07:11.17 | Corrodias | signing? isn't that what the public and private keys are for? |
| 07:11.17 | cybane | SSL is based off of a passphrase |
| 07:11.32 | Shirik | you're talking about the encryption part |
| 07:11.45 | Shirik | I'm talking about the integrity part (the part that verifies a server's identity) |
| 07:12.04 | Shirik | or a client's identity, for that matter |
| 07:12.31 | Shirik | in any case, even if it is theoretically possible to fake-sign your addon |
| 07:12.34 | Shirik | let's take that for instance |
| 07:12.40 | Corrodias | just remembered i don't actually know how ssl works any more |
| 07:12.45 | Mortius | ConsoleExec nor loadstring is working... what do you think the cause is |
| 07:12.59 | Shirik | It's (1) too much work, in my opinion, and (2) potentially something detectable server-side |
| 07:13.10 | Shirik | Mortius: Are you sure you're actually receiving the string correctly? |
| 07:13.17 | Shirik | Does loadstring() return a function or nil? |
| 07:13.25 | Mortius | yes, I have a ChatFrame1:AddMessage(sMsg); first |
| 07:13.35 | Mortius | and the sMsg is the string |
| 07:13.38 | Shirik | pastey your code |
| 07:13.39 | Mortius | and it displays correctly |
| 07:14.02 | Mortius | should /script loadstring() work ingame? |
| 07:14.07 | Shirik | sure |
| 07:14.10 | Mortius | it doesn't |
| 07:14.13 | Shirik | what does it do? |
| 07:14.17 | Mortius | nothing |
| 07:14.20 | Shirik | well |
| 07:14.22 | Mortius | no error, nothing |
| 07:14.26 | Shirik | what you wrote right there does nothing |
| 07:14.32 | Shirik | script loadstring() doesn't tell it do anything |
| 07:14.35 | Mortius | well, I've tried commands that would work |
| 07:14.44 | Shirik | are you calling the function after you make it? |
| 07:14.51 | Mortius | I did /script loadstring("DPlayerFrame:Hide()"); |
| 07:14.52 | Shirik | loadstring() doesn't execute the code, it just makes a function from the code |
| 07:14.59 | Shirik | ok |
| 07:15.09 | Shirik | you need /script fn = loadstring("DPlayerFrame:Hide()"); fn(); |
| 07:15.14 | Shirik | note the call at the end |
| 07:15.18 | cybane | From what I have seen of the Lua protected functions only a few of them have been protected |
| 07:15.18 | Shirik | alternatively you could do |
| 07:15.27 | Shirik | this: /script loadstring("DPlayerFrame:Hide()")(); |
| 07:15.34 | cybane | Almost all targeting and casting have been protected |
| 07:15.38 | Shirik | which is a bit less readable, but if you look at it, it makes sense |
| 07:15.38 | Corrodias | they only had to protect a few to lock out the functionality they wanted |
| 07:15.51 | cybane | It seems like this process was developed to wreck decurissive |
| 07:15.58 | Shirik | Addons like that, yes |
| 07:15.58 | Corrodias | that was the main target |
| 07:16.06 | Kirkburn | Oh god, 2.0.12? |
| 07:16.13 | Shirik | haha yes |
| 07:16.19 | Mortius | okay that works |
| 07:16.20 | Shirik | 2.1 will be out within a year, Kirkburn, don't worry |
| 07:16.58 | Mortius | but if I could do /script in my code I wouldn't need loadstring to begin with |
| 07:17.00 | Shirik | Mortius: If you want to trap errors (which may be a good idea) |
| 07:17.06 | Shirik | you might want to use pcall as well |
| 07:17.28 | Shirik | Mortius: You... can't really do /script in the middle of your code |
| 07:17.34 | Mortius | so in my code I could just do loadstring("DPlayerFrame:Hide()")(); |
| 07:17.34 | Shirik | that's not lua |
| 07:17.43 | Shirik | yes |
| 07:18.00 | Mortius | well, actually loadstring(arg1)(); |
| 07:18.01 | Shirik | or pcall(loadstring("DPlayerFrame:Hide()")); |
| 07:18.04 | Shirik | yeah |
| 07:18.17 | cybane | Anyone know where the Dr Decursive page is? |
| 07:19.06 | cybane | http://drdecursive.com/main.htm |
| 07:19.14 | cybane | Blizzard only prevented one way of doing it |
| 07:20.04 | Corrodias | nothing wrong with that |
| 07:20.19 | Corrodias | you have to hit it 25 times to get it done, each time |
| 07:21.55 | cybane | I thought decursive originally required you to do the same thing push a button for each debuff |
| 07:22.03 | Mortius | Shirik: Thanks a lot, it works now. |
| 07:22.05 | Corrodias | for each debuff, yes |
| 07:22.09 | Shirik | not a problem, Mortius |
| 07:22.14 | Corrodias | that page described something you have to press 25 times for each debuff, approximately |
| 07:22.37 | Corrodias | at least from my quick glance |
| 07:22.47 | cybane | Well not really |
| 07:23.10 | cybane | If the detection mod can tell you how many of each debuff there are you know how many total times you have to push it |
| 07:23.49 | Corrodias | in any case, that's allowed. you're welcome to try it. |
| 07:25.16 | Shirik | The problem is |
| 07:25.19 | Shirik | when you get into types of debuffs |
| 07:25.27 | Shirik | Decursive always was able to tell what kind of dispell was needed |
| 07:25.38 | Shirik | What about priests, who have dispel magic and cure disease? |
| 07:25.48 | Shirik | The addon can no longer detect which to cast |
| 07:25.53 | Shirik | The user has to state what to do |
| 07:26.17 | Corrodias | there's a decursive mod out there that's much quicker. as i recall, it just gives you a small grid of buttons that light up and you click them |
| 07:26.27 | Corrodias | it's whack-a-mole, but it's still not "just one button a thousand times" |
| 07:26.41 | Shirik | It's called RDX :( |
| 07:26.59 | Shirik | Also |
| 07:27.02 | Corrodias | its called stfu |
| 07:27.07 | Shirik | You can't make a single macro to cure 25 people still |
| 07:27.26 | Shirik | The addon can't tell who to cast on |
| 07:27.31 | Shirik | you'd have to have 25 different buttons |
| 07:27.33 | Shirik | not one button |
| 07:28.39 | cybane | What if you made a mod that would list the people with debuff A. Then when you push your macro it will cure only the people in List A |
| 07:29.03 | cybane | You push the button to update the list and cure again |
| 07:29.08 | Corrodias | the thing can't dynamically choose who to cast it on |
| 07:29.16 | Corrodias | and you can't move secure frames during combat |
| 07:31.05 | Mortius | my only other current problem is how to make a slash command take a second argument, heh .. like /cmd blah blip |
| 07:31.41 | Mortius | i can't figure out how to get blip to carry over |
| 07:33.25 | Mortius | since the function called from within SlashCmdList only passes a single argument... |
| 07:36.52 | cybane | Also, is the 120 hotbuttons a blizzard limit? |
| 07:37.32 | Shirik | You can make an infinite number of buttons |
| 07:37.34 | SunTiger | yes |
| 07:37.34 | Corrodias | i believe you can make "buttons" that will go beyond that, as clickable frames with attributes that cast spells and show cooldowns and such |
| 07:37.36 | cybane | Okay I think I understand the whole protected and secure thing now. Blizzard wants the UI to help us make our decisions but not make them for us |
| 07:37.38 | Shirik | CreateFrame() |
| 07:37.47 | Corrodias | exactly |
| 07:37.56 | SunTiger | the spell and macro id's for those buttons are stored on the server. |
| 07:38.14 | SunTiger | you can make more |
| 07:38.22 | cybane | Okay |
| 07:38.24 | SunTiger | but 120 is mostly assumed to be enough |
| 07:38.31 | Mortius | how does ctmod and others let you do a /slash command with multiple arguments? says in a couple places that you can't do it, but I know it can be done... |
| 07:38.32 | Shirik | which is mostly true :P |
| 07:39.10 | SunTiger | Mortius, you get one argument back |
| 07:39.21 | cybane | Thank you for answering my questions no matter how trivial |
| 07:39.23 | SunTiger | wich is the entire string after the slash command |
| 07:39.31 | SunTiger | you simply split it up |
| 07:39.37 | Mortius | ah okay thanks suntiger |
| 07:39.44 | Shirik | cybane: One more thing |
| 07:39.47 | SunTiger | that is, if i remember correctly. |
| 07:39.53 | Shirik | Welcome to the modding community :) |
| 07:39.57 | cybane | sec someone at work wants my attention |
| 07:41.10 | Mortius | yes you're correct suntiger. I'll just seperate at " "... I think lua has a strsplit function now.. |
| 07:43.15 | Kirkburn | Why a PTR for a patch with 8 changes :/ |
| 07:43.22 | Shirik | heh |
| 07:44.09 | SunTiger | because they hate you Kirkburn , they have had it up to here with you and they made a patch simply to spite you. |
| 07:44.14 | SunTiger | or maybe not. |
| 07:47.53 | Mr_Rabies2 | they ptr every minor patch except emergency ones |
| 07:48.31 | cybane | But the class changes they do not PTR enough lol kidding |
| 07:48.53 | cybane | Did they PTR the changes to the PVP items pre BOC launch |
| 07:49.21 | Mr_Rabies2 | they ptr'd 2.0 |
| 07:50.00 | cybane | yeah but then they jacked honor gains which I do not think was PTRd |
| 07:50.24 | Elkano | they PTR but do they QA? ;) |
| 07:51.08 | cybane | Game is too big to QA much |
| 07:51.13 | Mr_Rabies2 | no, that wasnt a patch, that was hotfixed in, cybane |
| 07:51.25 | cybane | hotbroke you mean sorry I am bitter |
| 07:51.29 | bleeter | a PTR is not necessarily an RC |
| 07:51.37 | Mr_Rabies2 | hotfixes are tested internally only |
| 07:52.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gralivis (n=chatzill@24-240-188-170.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 07:52.05 | cybane | Tested as in does this change make the Game Crash or not load at all |
| 07:52.24 | Mr_Rabies2 | i didnt have any problems with the honor hotfix |
| 07:52.30 | Mr_Rabies2 | nor did anyone else i've ever talked to @_@ |
| 07:52.35 | Mr_Rabies2 | other than just standard whining |
| 07:53.15 | cybane | I did not mind the change I mind the constant hey here is this cool thing then YOINK you can't have it |
| 07:53.30 | cybane | It is like giving a kid a toy then ripping it away after they like it and saying here is a ball and cup |
| 07:53.35 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm used tio it by now |
| 07:53.47 | Mr_Rabies2 | i play a druid, we've gotten a lot of that :p |
| 07:53.55 | cybane | My druid is done |
| 07:53.59 | bleeter | writing online games for millions of users is a thankless task |
| 07:54.06 | Gralivis | lol, I still like my druid |
| 07:54.11 | SunTiger | hey, here is this nice toy, mmm you like it, here have this crappy one instead. |
| 07:54.32 | Shirik | Who needs QA when you have a bunch of bitchy customers that will whine about anything that's wrong :P |
| 07:54.43 | Shirik | pardon the language |
| 07:55.20 | Gralivis | Look at it this way, if you weren't playing WoW, what game would you be playing that is this good? |
| 07:55.33 | Mr_Rabies2 | castlevania :p |
| 07:55.49 | Shirik | I don't play wow |
| 07:55.50 | Mr_Rabies2 | i paid 10 bucks for it and it's held my attention for 10 hours so far and i'm not even close to halfway through |
| 07:55.51 | Shirik | and I'm still here |
| 07:55.58 | Shirik | which is rather odd |
| 07:56.07 | Shirik | well I play wow from time to time |
| 07:56.10 | Shirik | but code it a lot more :P |
| 07:56.35 | cybane | I think blizzard gets so much whining is that they change there game A LOT more so than many other MMOs. Rather than making the game better it just feels like they have no clue what they are doing and change things on whim |
| 07:56.48 | Gralivis | I guess we could always go back to EQ *shivers* |
| 07:56.52 | Mr_Rabies2 | uhh i'd like to point you toward SOE |
| 07:57.04 | Mr_Rabies2 | which has a tendency to completely break a game in one patch |
| 07:57.07 | Gralivis | rofl, good point Rabies |
| 07:57.15 | cybane | Hey Gralivis guess what the leader designer for EQ is now the lead designer for WoW |
| 07:57.28 | Mr_Rabies2 | that's not true, he was just a whiny player |
| 07:57.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Kaelten (n=kaelten@c-68-63-37-246.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 07:57.54 | *** mode/#wowi-lounge [+v Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 07:58.51 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Gralivis (n=chatzill@24-240-188-170.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 07:59.10 | Kirkburn | A whiny player that wanted to fix EQ, yes |
| 07:59.52 | Shirik | Kirkburn: How much longer are you going to be up? |
| 08:00.00 | Shirik | Meh, nm |
| 08:00.05 | Kirkburn | Depends if I actually get around to working :P |
| 08:00.05 | Shirik | I'll get clad|sleep to read it later :p |
| 08:00.25 | cybane | http://mews.kittysafe.net/2007/03/busted_tigole_and_furor.html |
| 08:01.36 | Kirkburn | Such sad, sad people |
| 08:03.54 | Kirkburn | From those types of posts, you'd think Blizzard was made up of three people |
| 08:04.15 | Kirkburn | Much like Bill Gates is Microsoft, and Steve Jobs is Apple. |
| 08:04.28 | Kirkburn | Sorry, employees, you say? Never heard of them! |
| 08:05.09 | Mr_Rabies2 | 2 days until the ZOMG R U SERIOUS threads filling up the forum /dance |
| 08:05.17 | cybane | Well Employees do not have as much say to effect the product as the Lead Designer or Quest Designer do |
| 08:05.19 | Gralivis | Hmm, the url's aren't hyperlinked for me. Anyone else? |
| 08:05.50 | Mr_Rabies2 | i can't wait to see what blizz does for april fools this year :D |
| 08:06.40 | Gralivis | Says they're nerfing warlocks? |
| 08:07.02 | Mr_Rabies2 | no one would believe it :p |
| 08:07.08 | Gralivis | Oh right... |
| 08:07.12 | Mr_Rabies2 | they need something believeable, i mean come on :p |
| 08:07.31 | Gralivis | Hmm...buffing warriors? |
| 08:08.47 | cybane | No matter what it is very well known they do that now so I doubt anyone will believe it |
| 08:08.49 | bleeter | hmm, OGL fix... wonder if that'll effect us WoW Winers.. best I should check it out |
| 08:09.07 | bleeter | *affect |
| 08:09.08 | bleeter | er |
| 08:09.11 | bleeter | one of them |
| 08:12.45 | bleeter | WTB: Last .3MB of PTR Patch |
| 08:13.16 | Gralivis | lol, there's a PTR up? |
| 08:13.55 | bleeter | 2.0.12 |
| 08:14.30 | bleeter | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=86916177&sid=1 .. post #8 or so for the patch notes |
| 08:14.50 | cybane | Boo why are there no premade copies available |
| 08:14.58 | Elkano | I think it's mainly a mac patch |
| 08:15.02 | bleeter | "- Using the customer support "Auto-Unstuck" will now trigger the |
| 08:15.03 | bleeter | one-hour cooldown on the player's hearthstone. " |
| 08:15.30 | bleeter | Elkano: yeah, i get the feeling it's more for the OGL fix than the game fix itself |
| 08:15.39 | bleeter | maybe the localizations |
| 08:15.41 | *** join/#wowi-lounge qw` (n=qw@173.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net) |
| 08:16.50 | Gralivis | Damnit, we can't abuse the auto-unstuck anymore |
| 08:17.15 | Gralivis | I miss using it when there was still the "bump" to go into old IF and hyjal ;) |
| 08:17.33 | bleeter | I wonder if they saw the convo in here about it last week, and took that as a 'enough is enough, patch it' ;) |
| 08:18.50 | Mr_Rabies2 | I hope DnT or someone does hyjal sometime soon :[ |
| 08:19.47 | bleeter | hmm, this seems to be a massive terrian patch |
| 08:20.12 | bleeter | correct me if I'm wrong, but at BC launch, i seem to recall someone sayin Hyjal wasn't complete |
| 08:20.23 | Gralivis | Meh, I wish they would have made that into an area instead of a dungeon. I'll probably never get to see inside of hyjal. Just like I've never seen the inside of Naxx. |
| 08:20.27 | bleeter | 'coz the designers still had time to work it while the players positioned |
| 08:21.13 | cybane | Considering Hyjal was the site of a huge explosion I would think it would be unsafe you know all the demonic radiation woah |
| 08:22.06 | Gralivis | I've searched through Hyjal many of times, the blast looks like the Dark Portal in Blasted Lands. |
| 08:22.33 | Gralivis | Anyone else hate the blizzard downloader with a passion? |
| 08:22.51 | cybane | That is why i use filefront |
| 08:23.09 | Gralivis | No PTR on filefront though |
| 08:23.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge nuoHep (n=nuoHep@outer.test.e-larek.ru) |
| 08:23.26 | Gralivis | Wonder if my fastpass account is still active |
| 08:23.33 | Corrodias | can you gain buffs from more than one kind of food at a time? |
| 08:23.50 | cybane | no |
| 08:24.06 | cybane | I think you get 1 food and 1 water buff |
| 08:24.16 | Corrodias | okay |
| 08:24.33 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Antiarc|Wor1 (n=cheald@host42.ttiltd.com) |
| 08:24.33 | Corrodias | (like +20 stamina & spirit for eating for 10 seconds) |
| 08:24.44 | Corrodias | how about different elixirs that affect the same stats? |
| 08:24.57 | Gralivis | The highest one overrides |
| 08:25.03 | Corrodias | k |
| 08:25.17 | cybane | Think of it this way |
| 08:25.29 | cybane | You can only have one buff per type for each stat |
| 08:25.55 | Gralivis | lol, this reminds me of the days when you could eat and drink multiple items of different ranks |
| 08:25.58 | SunTiger | Corrodias, but not if the elixer has additional stats too |
| 08:26.08 | SunTiger | for instance mongoose and agility will stack |
| 08:26.13 | Corrodias | they will? nice |
| 08:26.24 | Corrodias | they affect the same stats |
| 08:26.37 | SunTiger | ah yes, but mongoose also has a crit rating effect |
| 08:26.45 | SunTiger | so they do not override. |
| 08:26.46 | Gralivis | What patch did they fix that? 1.3? man I've been playing this game too long >.< |
| 08:26.55 | Corrodias | ah, regular agility, not Elixir of Major Agility |
| 08:27.34 | SunTiger | yes |
| 08:27.59 | SunTiger | i used that trick many a times before TBC made elixer of agility slightly underpowered. |
| 08:28.00 | Corrodias | so Elixir of Greater Agility (+25 agi) and Elixir of the Mongoose (+25 agi and +28 crit rating) will stack? |
| 08:28.20 | cybane | yes |
| 08:28.26 | SunTiger | yes |
| 08:28.28 | cybane | 50agi and 28 crit |
| 08:28.33 | cybane | But you die and it is gone |
| 08:28.49 | SunTiger | true of all buffs besides flasks |
| 08:28.54 | Shirik | Anyone here that understands Lua variable scope well? |
| 08:28.58 | Shirik | Specifically that in for loops? |
| 08:29.03 | SunTiger | sure |
| 08:29.08 | SunTiger | whats the problem ? |
| 08:29.15 | Shirik | Let's say we do this |
| 08:29.42 | Kirkburn | And the crowd goes .... awwwwww! http://www.funnyanimalvideos.com/otter-videos/otters-holding-hands/ |
| 08:30.00 | Shirik | local n = 0; for x = 1, 10 do print(n) local n = x; end |
| 08:30.01 | bleeter | weeee... I love filling out the WoW Error report.. 'What were you doing?' 'Getting your game working in Lunix, what the hell does this trace look like?!' |
| 08:30.04 | Shirik | that will print 0 every time, right? |
| 08:30.11 | Shirik | each iteration is a separate code block? |
| 08:30.21 | ZealotOnAStick | where can I see the PTR notes? |
| 08:30.41 | bleeter | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=86916177&sid=1 .. post #8 or so for the patch notes |
| 08:30.43 | SunTiger | shirik n is declared outside of the for loo |
| 08:30.46 | SunTiger | loop* |
| 08:30.49 | Shirik | right, I have two ns |
| 08:30.51 | Kirkburn | http://blue.cardplace.com/newcache/forums.worldofwarcraft.com/86646263.htm |
| 08:31.04 | cybane | Where is you x++ |
| 08:31.07 | cybane | your |
| 08:31.11 | bleeter | looks like they got the binary up after the website support staff went home for the night ;) |
| 08:31.13 | Shirik | in lua, that's handled automatically |
| 08:31.13 | SunTiger | your for would 0 to 9 |
| 08:31.13 | cybane | or does it auto incriment |
| 08:31.33 | SunTiger | s/would/would output/ |
| 08:31.53 | Shirik | er... |
| 08:31.54 | Shirik | actually |
| 08:31.57 | Shirik | it prints nil every time |
| 08:32.01 | Shirik | now that doesn't make much sense to me >.> |
| 08:32.15 | SunTiger | i lied |
| 08:32.21 | SunTiger | wellk, i was wrong |
| 08:32.28 | Shirik | heh |
| 08:32.31 | Shirik | well I was wrong too |
| 08:32.33 | Shirik | now I have to figure out why |
| 08:32.38 | Shirik | http://wowi.pastey.net/9634 |
| 08:33.16 | Shirik | cybane: Lua assumes a step of 1 |
| 08:33.18 | Shirik | and does it automatically |
| 08:33.24 | Shirik | if you want to do somethign else, you can supply it |
| 08:33.36 | Shirik | for start, stop, step do <code block> end |
| 08:33.41 | Nargiddley | change local n = x to n = x |
| 08:33.46 | Shirik | No |
| 08:33.49 | Shirik | I specifically want that |
| 08:33.52 | Shirik | that's intentional |
| 08:34.09 | Shirik | It's not practical, but it's a case I am trying to understand |
| 08:34.13 | Shirik | for an article I'm writing |
| 08:34.19 | Nargiddley | local to a block that goes out of scope the next line ? |
| 08:34.20 | cybane | Variable Scope |
| 08:34.27 | Shirik | Exactly |
| 08:34.31 | Nargiddley | k |
| 08:34.33 | Shirik | My thoguht was it would print 0 every time |
| 08:34.41 | Shirik | why it's printing nil is a bit confusing |
| 08:34.52 | Shirik | shouldn't it go back to the local var defined on line 3? |
| 08:34.53 | cybane | It should only print 0 the first time |
| 08:35.21 | Nargiddley | looks like it should print 0 every time to me |
| 08:35.21 | cybane | Why would it print 0 every time since local n = 0 is outside the loop |
| 08:35.51 | Shirik | sure |
| 08:36.00 | Shirik | in every language, variables move into scope like that |
| 08:36.09 | Shirik | they move into, but not out |
| 08:36.25 | cybane | You set n to be what ever x is currently at |
| 08:36.34 | Shirik | right, but that's a different n |
| 08:36.52 | cybane | does print(n) know which n to use? |
| 08:37.00 | Shirik | that's what scope is for |
| 08:37.01 | Nargiddley | it uses the closest scoped one |
| 08:37.07 | cybane | Maybe that is why it is nil because it does not know which to use |
| 08:37.22 | Shirik | the closest scoped one, as far as I can tell, should be the one which equals zero |
| 08:37.33 | Shirik | as the one on the next line isn't declared yet, and all others are out of scope |
| 08:37.53 | Shirik | ok well |
| 08:37.53 | cybane | Depends on how Lusa defines their scope |
| 08:37.54 | Shirik | second question |
| 08:37.56 | Shirik | x |
| 08:37.59 | Shirik | is that a local variable or global? |
| 08:38.08 | Nargiddley | local to the for block |
| 08:38.11 | Shirik | that's what I thought |
| 08:38.11 | Nargiddley | afaik |
| 08:38.23 | Shirik | thanks |
| 08:38.23 | Nom- | <3 perl loops: foreach my $number (1..1000000000) { # do stuff } |
| 08:38.27 | Nom- | so much simpler to follow imho |
| 08:38.35 | Shirik | This was intentionally complicated :P |
| 08:38.41 | Shirik | normally you shouldn't have two variables like that |
| 08:38.58 | Nargiddley | for number = 1,10000000 do stuff end |
| 08:39.04 | cybane | Which is probably why Lua is printing nil instead of the expected value |
| 08:39.06 | Nom- | if ... end if <--- that is evil imho |
| 08:39.11 | Nargiddley | same thing, and easier to read imo |
| 08:39.14 | Shirik | there's no end if :P |
| 08:39.14 | Shirik | it's just end |
| 08:39.20 | Nom- | same thing |
| 08:39.33 | Kaelten | some languages have endif |
| 08:39.35 | Kaelten | or ifend |
| 08:39.40 | Shirik | yeah but we're talking about lua :P |
| 08:39.43 | Kaelten | oh |
| 08:39.45 | Kaelten | ok |
| 08:39.46 | Kaelten | :) |
| 08:39.49 | Shirik | vb uses endif doesn't it? |
| 08:39.52 | Shirik | basic too if I remember |
| 08:39.55 | Nargiddley | end if |
| 08:39.58 | Shirik | ah yeah that's it |
| 08:39.58 | Nargiddley | for vb |
| 08:40.02 | Shirik | basic too that's right |
| 08:40.07 | Shirik | been too long :P |
| 08:40.24 | Kaelten | personally I like the end statement better than brakets |
| 08:40.24 | Nargiddley | been like 4 hrs :/ |
| 08:40.26 | Shirik | cybane |
| 08:40.31 | Shirik | I'm writing a huge article on it right now |
| 08:40.33 | Shirik | almost done |
| 08:40.35 | Shirik | if you want to check it out :) |
| 08:41.29 | Gralivis | Question for you guys: Was lvling 60-70 easier than 50-60? |
| 08:41.42 | Kirkburn | Cos I'm cool - 2.0.12 wikified patch notes: http://tinyurl.com/3eykwu |
| 08:41.45 | cybane | Because new mechanics |
| 08:41.48 | cybane | and better gear |
| 08:41.50 | Nargiddley | Shirik, does it print correctly without the n declared inside the block ? |
| 08:42.14 | Shirik | interesting |
| 08:42.14 | Shirik | no it doesn't |
| 08:42.31 | Shirik | that's... confusing |
| 08:42.50 | Nargiddley | try it all on one line |
| 08:43.01 | Shirik | I tried putting it in a function |
| 08:43.05 | Shirik | and then called the funciton |
| 08:43.06 | Shirik | now it works |
| 08:43.09 | cybane | Okay Shirik the local n outside the loop is local to the entire procedure and the one inside the loop is local to that loop |
| 08:43.09 | Nom- | Paladin levelling is pretty eays all the way through, just slow :P |
| 08:43.12 | Nargiddley | ah |
| 08:43.17 | Shirik | it was something with the way the interpreter was reading it |
| 08:43.20 | Shirik | must have been |
| 08:43.22 | Nargiddley | yeah thats what i was thinking |
| 08:43.31 | Nargiddley | maybe it needed a do .. end around it |
| 08:43.34 | cybane | because you did not define the space for the scope to be in |
| 08:43.47 | Nargiddley | havnet done anything with lua outside of wow |
| 08:43.55 | cybane | You put two dots in space without a plane to be on |
| 08:43.57 | Kirkburn | Ooh, IE7Pro is awesome - I get a little bar showing the Alexa rank and Google Pagerank in my status bar :D |
| 08:44.07 | Elkano | Natural Selection 2 will feature lua iirc |
| 08:44.13 | Shirik | and now my original question - redefining the local in the for loop |
| 08:44.19 | Shirik | it still prints out 0 every time as I expected |
| 08:44.22 | Shirik | thanks for the help :) |
| 08:44.48 | cybane | because the local inside the loop has to be done before operations not after |
| 08:45.01 | cybane | Always define your variables 1st |
| 08:45.18 | Shirik | this was intentional cybane |
| 08:45.22 | Gralivis | Wow, I haven't used Blizzard's UI in so long |
| 08:45.28 | Shirik | I'm not saying this is good programming practice, but it's something that's possible |
| 08:45.30 | cybane | As a way to tell people to define variables 1st? |
| 08:45.41 | Shirik | when writing a howto article, you have to cover all grounds |
| 08:45.43 | Gralivis | So bulky and disgusting. Almost console like |
| 08:45.44 | Shirik | including those which are unlikely |
| 08:45.50 | cybane | I knowq |
| 08:46.05 | cybane | Good job but is def for beginers at coding practice |
| 08:47.04 | cybane | [#wowi-lounge] Also, to better illustrate the |
| 08:47.07 | Shirik | here you go cybane |
| 08:47.11 | cybane | dang it |
| 08:47.15 | Shirik | the newest wowwiki article, by yours truly: http://www.wowwiki.com/Lua_Scope |
| 08:47.15 | cybane | http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#2.4.5 |
| 08:47.34 | Gralivis | off I go...nice chatting with you guys. First time on an IRC really xD |
| 08:47.41 | Shirik | night :) |
| 08:48.32 | cybane | Nice |
| 08:49.30 | cybane | Why does everyone want a bar for this that and everything |
| 08:49.39 | cybane | Only thing I can understand are duration bars |
| 08:49.58 | cybane | but cooldown bars geeze just get a fricken cooldown count for your hotbars lol |
| 08:51.05 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Insa (n=ins@50.84-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 08:55.37 | cybane | I think for what I am going to be doing it will be more involved with XML than Lua |
| 09:06.52 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-74-62-251-185.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 09:11.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-74-62-251-185.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 09:17.17 | Shirik | cybane: You always use the right tool for the job |
| 09:17.24 | Shirik | sometimes that may be xml, sometimes that may be lua |
| 09:17.35 | Shirik | Anything you do in XML can be done in Lua, but some find it easier to write in XML |
| 09:17.42 | Shirik | that's a matter of personal preference |
| 09:19.04 | Corrodias | so it turns out i need to collect 11 kinds of herbs, 10 if you don't count fel lotus, for all the potions i might want to get made |
| 09:19.26 | Corrodias | and of course they stack to 5 so it will take lots of inventory space if i try to get more than that >:P |
| 09:39.11 | cybane | You mean I do not have to use XML for the pretties? |
| 09:39.40 | cybane | I thought the WoW gui was like writing and HTA |
| 09:39.54 | cybane | You use HTML for the look and feel then use whatever language you want for the actions |
| 09:40.06 | Shirik | You don't have to |
| 09:40.13 | Shirik | and HTML != XML |
| 09:40.17 | cybane | I know |
| 09:40.28 | Shirik | Anything the XML can do, Lua can do |
| 09:40.32 | cybane | But XML is a way fo desribing information on a page |
| 09:40.35 | Shirik | in the end, it has to be parsed down to Lua |
| 09:40.45 | Shirik | but some find it more natural to write in XML |
| 09:40.53 | Nargiddley | i think theres one thing it cant do, but its minor heh |
| 09:41.01 | Shirik | eh, OnLoad? |
| 09:41.06 | Nargiddley | virtual frames |
| 09:41.09 | Shirik | hmm |
| 09:41.18 | Shirik | never really did understand them anyway :P |
| 09:41.23 | Shirik | they can't be important :P |
| 09:41.25 | Nargiddley | i've got an xml stub for the frame template to pass to secure headers |
| 09:42.43 | cybane | What is your view of the UI customization tool? |
| 09:43.02 | Nargiddley | what do you mean ? |
| 09:43.25 | cybane | Oh it just extracts the pretty graphics |
| 09:43.29 | Nargiddley | its very useful to have all the bliz code that it extracts |
| 09:43.46 | Shirik | I use WinMPQ |
| 09:43.48 | Shirik | same difference |
| 09:49.18 | Nargiddley | oh Shirik, one interesting lua scope (sort of) thing that isnt mentioned in that article. closures :D |
| 09:49.32 | Shirik | Feel free to edit it; it's 6 am here >< |
| 09:49.37 | Nargiddley | ah |
| 09:49.49 | Nargiddley | i suck at explaining things :/ |
| 09:49.54 | Shirik | :( |
| 09:50.32 | Nargiddley | http://narg.pastey.net/9637 is the example i came up with tho |
| 09:50.40 | cybane | Yeah 6am and I am at work |
| 09:50.48 | Nargiddley | ew tabs diddnt paste |
| 09:50.55 | cybane | lol |
| 09:51.29 | Nargiddley | ah wait its just the top display, guess i need sleep as well :/ |
| 09:53.00 | cybane | With the ammount of effort it would take me to create a perfect UI mode for myself I do not know if it worth the investment lol |
| 09:53.06 | cybane | mod |
| 09:55.31 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Adys (n=Miranda@APoitiers-256-1-170-178.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:00.08 | cybane | anyone else use Irssi |
| 10:00.19 | bleeter | Nom-: in case you missed it http://www.smh.com.au/news/mobiles--handhelds/optus-glitch-lets-others-listen-in/2007/03/29/1174761637575.html |
| 10:00.30 | bleeter | and any other aussies |
| 10:00.52 | bleeter | irssi 0.8.10 (20051211 1015) |
| 10:03.03 | bleeter | what I'm looking for are any WoW Winers, particularly Linux Winers, kernel 2.6.20 + alsa 1.0.14 and wine 0.9.32 or greater... who don't have fuxored audio. I want your alsa confs! |
| 10:03.20 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Nargiddley` (n=narg@203-97-236-74.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 10:03.43 | bleeter | and prolly.. kernel, and wine configs too |
| 10:04.20 | bleeter | tho I deeply suspect it's my 3 card audio setup just confusing the hell outta wine .. :/ |
| 10:04.24 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Nickenyfiken (n=najklord@83.145.59.23) |
| 10:05.43 | cybane | That is fricken awesome |
| 10:06.10 | bleeter | wha? |
| 10:06.17 | cybane | that link |
| 10:06.26 | bleeter | oh yeah |
| 10:06.26 | cybane | Yeah I don't wine |
| 10:06.39 | cybane | I just have system setup for Windows Gaming and it saves me a lot of troublke |
| 10:06.42 | cybane | trouble |
| 10:06.55 | Shirik | bleeter: How's wine doing with wow? |
| 10:07.01 | Shirik | with 2.0.12 |
| 10:07.13 | Shirik | Um |
| 10:07.19 | Shirik | and my audio's fuxored too sorry :( |
| 10:07.20 | bleeter | Shirik: fine, as far as I can tell. Didn't notice any improvements in OGL |
| 10:07.26 | cybane | Bliz could make a Linux client they just don't want to |
| 10:07.27 | Shirik | actually it doesn't play, period |
| 10:07.38 | bleeter | yeah, something in that kernel/alsa setup has screwed wine over |
| 10:07.52 | bleeter | I've seen some people moaning about mplayer being fuxed too |
| 10:08.20 | bleeter | but everything else here is fine.. tho, I did have a bitch of a time setting up Skype the other day |
| 10:08.28 | Shirik | same |
| 10:08.32 | Shirik | wow plays like a charm, etc. |
| 10:08.39 | bleeter | insisted that the 3rd card didn't exist (USB headset), yet still played to it :/ |
| 10:08.43 | bleeter | yup |
| 10:08.48 | Shirik | oh god skype |
| 10:08.49 | Shirik | haha |
| 10:08.54 | Shirik | That thing doesn't even work on WINDOWS |
| 10:08.57 | bleeter | if I remove my .asoundrc, wow will play into the headset |
| 10:09.09 | bleeter | was for a job 'interview'.. so had no choice, really |
| 10:09.16 | Shirik | heh, same, I had to use it for a job |
| 10:09.28 | Shirik | when I left them I was glad |
| 10:09.34 | Shirik | You know how that thing works? |
| 10:09.38 | Shirik | If you enter a chat room with 50 people |
| 10:09.43 | Shirik | it opens 50 processes and 50 internet connections |
| 10:09.51 | Shirik | who in their right mind codes something like that |
| 10:10.06 | bleeter | yup |
| 10:10.49 | bleeter | I've been in a 'running' argument for three years with a couple of protocol vendors over open source voice/video stuff ... most of them want to re-invent failed crap that others are making $$ from |
| 10:10.50 | cybane | lol |
| 10:11.23 | bleeter | 'But Brand Y has 10m users'.. 'so, it don't make it any freakin' good, scalable, managable, usable.. ffs' |
| 10:11.55 | Shirik | haha |
| 10:11.57 | Shirik | tell him |
| 10:12.03 | Shirik | windows has 10m users |
| 10:12.32 | bleeter | gotta be more than that, just read the MS marketing press releases! |
| 10:15.39 | Industrial | :p |
| 10:19.20 | cybane | grrr one more hr to kill |
| 10:19.54 | cybane | Well they know how many people use it legally |
| 10:21.40 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Nargiddley (n=narg@203-97-236-74.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 10:25.48 | cybane | ouch |
| 10:27.34 | cybane | http://www.onemorelevel.com/games.php?game=474 rofl |
| 10:30.18 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Nickenyfiken (n=najklord@83.145.59.23) |
| 10:32.17 | bleeter | cybane: they're not even sure of that. they know how many licenses they've sold, that's about it |
| 10:32.48 | cybane | They also know how many people have leagally activated the software atleast once |
| 10:33.03 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Nickenyfiken (n=najklord@83.145.59.23) |
| 10:33.28 | bleeter | nah, they just know how many activation codes have been submitted |
| 10:33.56 | Shirik | just because you have a licensed copy doesn't always mean you're using the license correctly, either |
| 10:33.59 | bleeter | whether a submitted activation code = legal purchase, could be debated. eg, I 'steal' an activation code from the local shop, register, etc. |
| 10:34.11 | Shirik | You think there aren't any families that share the same disc amongst several computers? |
| 10:34.15 | bleeter | two months later, shop *sells* that copy.. user submits it. they're flagged as a pirate. |
| 10:34.48 | bleeter | *technically, shop licenses user on behalf of MS.. or so MS would claim, despite local trading laws that ain't never gunna be contested, etc. etc. etc. |
| 10:36.15 | *** join/#wowi-lounge bindi (n=indigo@d54C68DEA.access.telenet.be) |
| 10:36.23 | nevcairiel | if you get a windows logo cd which seems to be pirated, MS will replace it for you .. at least used to. |
| 10:36.40 | nevcairiel | (and prosecute the seller, still) |
| 10:36.55 | Shirik | if you need another key |
| 10:36.58 | Shirik | just ask microsoft for one |
| 10:36.59 | Shirik | correctly |
| 10:37.01 | Shirik | they'll give it to you |
| 10:37.17 | Shirik | just call them up like "Hey I can't activate my software" they'll try to do it manually |
| 10:37.31 | Shirik | give them some key and claim it's what's written on the cd box |
| 10:37.53 | Shirik | obviously it will fail to validate, they'll ask for some other info (starts with X11 or something like that) |
| 10:37.56 | Shirik | give them the real info |
| 10:37.58 | Shirik | they give you a new key |
| 10:37.59 | Shirik | done. |
| 10:38.03 | Shirik | But you didn't hear it from me |
| 10:38.07 | bleeter | pretty much, hence they can only work off sold licenses, which equates to boxes sitting on shelves |
| 10:38.17 | bleeter | ie, OEMs |
| 10:38.17 | cybane | All you have to do now is give them a code and yes I am only installing it on one PC and they will activate it |
| 10:38.22 | Shirik | (I did that once legit actually) |
| 10:38.31 | Shirik | was installing xp for a customer and their key really was invalid |
| 10:38.32 | cybane | I have used my Key Code too many times since I reinstall the OS every 3 months |
| 10:38.36 | Shirik | so had to convince microsoft to give me a new one |
| 10:38.37 | bleeter | Shirik: pretty much the same here, too |
| 10:38.57 | nevcairiel | yea MS activation strategy doesnt work if you simply reinstall alot |
| 10:39.05 | nevcairiel | I had a funny behaviour once |
| 10:39.07 | Shirik | cybane: I believe the auto-checker looks for 5 installs over 12 months |
| 10:39.17 | Shirik | on the same key |
| 10:39.18 | cybane | I am just waiting for them to ask me why I am reinstalling |
| 10:39.28 | cybane | I have to because ur crap don't work right |
| 10:39.30 | Shirik | if you're doing it that slowly, it should never catch it |
| 10:39.34 | nevcairiel | reinstalled, obviously activation stopped working. |
| 10:39.40 | nevcairiel | after i updated all drivers and stuff |
| 10:39.42 | clad|sleep | use volume licenses |
| 10:39.42 | nevcairiel | it worked again |
| 10:39.44 | clad|sleep | no activation =) |
| 10:39.47 | Shirik | volume licenses ftw. |
| 10:39.51 | Shirik | <3 my school |
| 10:39.55 | Shirik | clad|sleep! |
| 10:40.01 | clad|sleep | wha? |
| 10:40.07 | Shirik | I wrote that article, now you have to proofread it because I wrote it at like 4am |
| 10:40.09 | Shirik | =P |
| 10:40.13 | clad|sleep | lol |
| 10:40.14 | nevcairiel | i got a MSDNAA copy of any Windows .. so i dun care about actually activating it once :) |
| 10:40.15 | clad|sleep | email it to me |
| 10:40.18 | clad|sleep | and i'll look at work |
| 10:40.25 | bleeter | I'm still impressed that Wine passed the 'original' WGA program |
| 10:40.34 | Shirik | I actually already posted it so you should be able to find it |
| 10:40.35 | Shirik | http://wowwiki.com/Lua_Scope |
| 10:40.45 | clad|sleep | if you dont email it it won't get done |
| 10:40.48 | clad|sleep | email is my to-do list =) |
| 10:40.49 | Shirik | haha ok |
| 10:40.51 | Shirik | what's your email? |
| 10:41.22 | bleeter | clad@bedtime.now.sleepy.bye.byes.com |
| 10:41.25 | Shirik | haha |
| 10:41.28 | clad|sleep | or gmail.com =) |
| 10:41.30 | Shirik | I should go to sleep >.> |
| 10:41.32 | clad|sleep | cladhaire tho |
| 10:41.32 | clad|sleep | not clad |
| 10:41.57 | Shirik | oops |
| 10:41.58 | cybane | What do you guys think will be the Blizzard April Fool's Joke this time? |
| 10:42.01 | Shirik | too late >.> |
| 10:42.23 | clad|sleep | ? |
| 10:42.33 | Shirik | um |
| 10:42.34 | nevcairiel | what was it last year? |
| 10:42.36 | nevcairiel | i forgot. |
| 10:42.42 | nevcairiel | ah i remember |
| 10:42.42 | Shirik | some random guy at clad@gmail.com just got some random wiki article emailed to them |
| 10:42.44 | nevcairiel | starbucks. |
| 10:42.46 | bleeter | wisp class |
| 10:43.26 | clad|sleep | lol |
| 10:44.08 | cybane | This is cool http://www.technorati.com/search/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2F%3Fv%3DCYY-g6ionzM |
| 10:44.15 | clad|sleep | so I'm glad I found the hardlock yesterday |
| 10:44.25 | clad|sleep | just not sure why it was happening. |
| 10:44.39 | Shirik | that's kinda what happened with the updater, really |
| 10:44.54 | Shirik | I had a deadlock in the updater, and I messed around with some thread locks somewhere and magically it was gone |
| 10:44.59 | Shirik | I'm happy though |
| 10:45.16 | Shirik | that was a couple of weeks ago though |
| 10:45.23 | clad|sleep | well all i did was securehook ToggteQuestLog |
| 10:45.31 | clad|sleep | and Idon't do anythign silly like call it again from inside. |
| 10:45.38 | clad|sleep | the code is onl like 45 lines long, heh |
| 10:46.12 | bleeter | you been tickling random bits again, clad? :P |
| 10:46.35 | Shirik | ?lv |
| 10:47.26 | bleeter | I so hope the april fool's isn't 'we're making the shimmering flats racetrack drivable'.. 'coz that'd mean they're not gunna |
| 10:47.32 | bleeter | and I really wanna ;) |
| 10:47.39 | nevcairiel | lol |
| 10:47.58 | nevcairiel | its not abstract enough for april fools |
| 10:47.59 | nevcairiel | imho |
| 10:48.06 | bleeter | srlsy, WoW needs car & plane racing. |
| 10:48.14 | bleeter | tru, nev |
| 10:49.13 | cybane | I do not believe anything from Blizzard anymore until it is on PTR |
| 10:49.21 | bleeter | weee, yet another WoWError.exe submission "What were you doing?" -> "Tooling around with Wine again, don't you know me by now?!" |
| 10:49.31 | nevcairiel | hehe |
| 10:49.37 | cybane | lol |
| 10:50.04 | cybane | I am trying to make this crap run an OS that I enjoy to use because you guys are too lazy to write one for us |
| 10:50.55 | bleeter | I'm 99% convinced in myself that they have it native in shop, just for users it's easier for us to hassle in wine, than for them to support all linux flavours, the bsd's, etc. etc. |
| 10:51.20 | Shirik | do you seriously submit those like that? |
| 10:51.21 | bleeter | that it runs pretty well in wine, give or take a few hacks, I think largely shows it's gotta be pretty clean code |
| 10:51.31 | bleeter | Shirik: when the mood takes me |
| 10:51.37 | Shirik | probably gives the QA team a chuckle... I'd like to be on the receiving end of those :OP |
| 10:51.57 | bleeter | Shirik: I've done a couple 'you tell me if this trace looks like windows, eh?' |
| 10:52.02 | Shirik | lol |
| 10:52.31 | Shirik | one day they ban bleeter for use of a 3rd party program :P |
| 10:53.54 | bleeter | in yer kode, strace(1)in yer callz |
| 10:53.55 | cybane | lol he is right |
| 10:54.06 | cybane | I am suprised the warden does not pick up on it |
| 10:54.10 | bleeter | it does |
| 10:54.21 | Shirik | they wouldn't get rid of linux users |
| 10:54.23 | Shirik | they have no reason to |
| 10:54.25 | cybane | Warden only reports right? |
| 10:54.29 | bleeter | late last year, they accidentally (or maybe purposefully) let a warden out that disagreed with Cedega |
| 10:54.44 | bleeter | shut a lot of Cedega users out, was quickly sorted between Blizz and Cedega |
| 10:54.51 | cybane | Maybe they like Wine and not Cedega |
| 10:55.05 | bleeter | nah, it's just a support headache for them |
| 10:55.31 | cybane | They could just say that we will not support the client if it is run on Linux |
| 10:55.40 | cybane | Or offer support for a few specific distros |
| 10:55.41 | Shirik | That's a double-edged sword though |
| 10:55.54 | bleeter | Slouken is Mr. SDL. There was a near riot in the Unix game community when he went to work for Blizz. |
| 10:55.56 | Shirik | by saying such a think, you're alienating your customers |
| 10:56.05 | Shirik | s/think/thing |
| 10:56.09 | Shirik | s/think/thing/ |
| 10:56.09 | Shirik | bah |
| 10:56.11 | Shirik | whatever |
| 10:56.15 | Shirik | you know what I meant |
| 10:56.26 | bleeter | cybane: they say words to the effect of 'if you get it to run under wine, we can't support you' |
| 10:56.26 | cybane | Not really |
| 10:56.43 | Shirik | You see |
| 10:56.47 | Shirik | they won't officially support it |
| 10:56.51 | cybane | If something is desgined to run in one environment but can run in another does not mean you have to support what it can run in |
| 10:56.52 | bleeter | gets back to supporting BSD, Linux, other *nix flavours. Just try to help it run in Wine, and be happy |
| 10:56.56 | Shirik | but you know, deep down, they want to support it |
| 10:57.03 | Shirik | because it's more customers for them, and it gives them a better reputation |
| 10:57.15 | Shirik | so what they will do is, behind the scenes, try to make things work decently enough |
| 10:57.22 | Shirik | while stating that they have no support for it |
| 10:57.39 | cybane | Think of this marketing the Blizzard give MS the finger and brings WoW to Linux |
| 10:58.01 | Shirik | they would never do it |
| 10:58.07 | bleeter | I think it was the original 2.0.10 PTR patch, had busted OGL. Broke on Macs, had their Mac H/W support guy say 'hi' to me in the forums when I was trying to work out 'wtf' under wine |
| 10:58.13 | Shirik | yes it did |
| 10:58.31 | bleeter | look at the hoops VMWare have to jump through to get it on Linux |
| 10:58.32 | bleeter | ugh |
| 10:58.34 | bleeter | horrid |
| 10:58.44 | bleeter | the binary would explode by a good 80MB, easy |
| 10:58.57 | cybane | time for me to go home bye guys |
| 10:59.01 | Shirik | night |
| 10:59.09 | bleeter | because in *nix land, one can't always rely on vendor supplied libs to work, so you have to supply your own fallbacks |
| 10:59.13 | bleeter | nn |
| 10:59.25 | bleeter | (if you're a 3rd party vendor relying on said libs to work) |
| 10:59.49 | Shirik | hmm |
| 10:59.55 | SunTiger | bleeter, but you don't get the linux feeling then |
| 10:59.56 | Shirik | you mean like the vendor supplied string.format in java? |
| 10:59.59 | SunTiger | don't suply the libs |
| 11:00.04 | SunTiger | simply complain they are not there |
| 11:00.05 | Shirik | which apparently doesn't exist in ubuntu? |
| 11:00.06 | SunTiger | that will teach them |
| 11:00.10 | SunTiger | dependency hell! |
| 11:00.33 | Shirik | so bleeter |
| 11:00.41 | bleeter | the old elf/a.out/gcc hell days! woot! |
| 11:00.42 | Shirik | I tried to install sun's JVM on ubuntu |
| 11:00.51 | Shirik | and my mind exploded |
| 11:01.06 | Shirik | You can't install it because the Gnu JVM is already on there |
| 11:01.19 | Shirik | and you can't uninstall the GNU one because part of the desktop relies on it? |
| 11:01.33 | bleeter | got a question, then.. does ubuntu have a java plugin working for FF |
| 11:01.37 | Shirik | or was I smoking crack? |
| 11:01.52 | bleeter | 'coz last time I checked, the gcj plugin don't have the security hooks etc. |
| 11:01.52 | Shirik | no idea |
| 11:02.04 | Shirik | I gave up :P |
| 11:02.05 | bleeter | nah, quite a few vendors are dropping sun's jvm |
| 11:02.08 | bleeter | moving to gck |
| 11:02.10 | bleeter | gcj |
| 11:02.56 | bleeter | this is one of the reasons I was telling you to write your mod updater thing in QT :P |
| 11:03.11 | bleeter | sorry, had to.. hadn't mentioned it for a fortnight ;) |
| 11:04.10 | Shirik | yeah >< |
| 11:04.28 | Shirik | I still don't know anything about QT though |
| 11:04.41 | Shirik | oh well, not turning back now |
| 11:04.45 | Shirik | I'll get the java to work with gcj |
| 11:04.59 | Shirik | I think I just need to get rid of string.format |
| 11:05.18 | Shirik | which I only used in one place I believe anyway |
| 11:05.31 | bleeter | gcj's in dev still, so no doubt you'll have fun for the next year or two keeping it working while gcj's worked up to a truly decent state, and older systems with bork gcj's disappear |
| 11:05.53 | Shirik | you're making me cry |
| 11:06.27 | Shirik | Maybe I can just translate it to C++ later (post-release) |
| 11:06.45 | Shirik | but it's so close to completion now I can't turn back now |
| 11:06.49 | bleeter | well, think of it this way.. the open source community were correct not to bother with java until a year or so ago, 'coz it was pretty truly crap |
| 11:06.49 | Shirik | must be finished and released |
| 11:07.00 | Shirik | I know Java's crap |
| 11:07.03 | Shirik | I detest the language |
| 11:07.17 | Shirik | Every time I open Netbeans I shudder |
| 11:07.27 | bleeter | so they're going to be a few years behind the piles of steaming turds Sun put out, and wait for the stench to dissipate before working out what's worth bothering with ;) |
| 11:07.34 | Shirik | heh |
| 11:07.45 | Shirik | Java is the epitome of lazy though |
| 11:07.48 | bleeter | which, I think, is a very sensible approach to the problem |
| 11:08.02 | Shirik | garbage collection, no need to test for buffer overruns |
| 11:08.05 | Shirik | all that good stuff |
| 11:08.23 | Shirik | thus I think C++ will outlast it by far |
| 11:08.27 | bleeter | place for everything, everything in it's place. Java's no catch-all |
| 11:08.40 | bleeter | C's still going quite nicely ;) |
| 11:09.00 | Shirik | oh that's what I mean |
| 11:09.02 | krka | lazy is not a bad word in programming |
| 11:09.06 | Shirik | I don't like the fact that it has garbage collection, etc. |
| 11:09.11 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Royal (n=m@cp291458-b.landg1.lb.home.nl) |
| 11:09.21 | Shirik | Mm... lazy I find to be bad |
| 11:09.33 | Shirik | there's a difference between taking care of something for a programmer and making the programmer lazy |
| 11:09.51 | Shirik | using a compiler so you don't have to write assembly isn't lazy, it's just helpful |
| 11:10.08 | bleeter | rough example, if you're writing a timing critical program, you may want total control over stuff like GC. |
| 11:10.17 | Shirik | yup |
| 11:10.25 | Shirik | But every language has its purpose |
| 11:10.30 | *** join/#wowi-lounge Telrin (n=test@shandalar.xs4all.nl) |
| 11:10.31 | Shirik | every. |
| 11:10.47 | Shirik | ok except C# |
| 11:10.50 | bleeter | even if it's just to die a slow and painful death ;) |
| 11:10.52 | Shirik | C# is microsoft's attempt to take over C++ |
| 11:11.44 | Shirik | There are definitely some things that Sun got right, though |
| 11:11.48 | Shirik | Java will stick around for quite some time |
| 11:12.07 | Shirik | It is, beyond the shadow of a doubt, the #1 used applet language on the net |
| 11:12.20 | Shirik | maybe behind flash |
| 11:12.22 | Shirik | but that would be it |
| 11:12.38 | Shirik | and for obvious reasons |
| 11:13.11 | Shirik | right |
| 11:13.22 | Shirik | it's 7:15, I'm tired, time to head out |
| 11:13.25 | bleeter | useful on heavy irons, where you might wanna change hardware platform in three or four years time 'coz the old stuff isn't scaling |
| 11:13.25 | Shirik | screw class :P |
| 11:13.31 | bleeter | just move the code to new iron |
| 11:13.47 | bleeter | .. in theory |
| 11:13.53 | Shirik | always "in theory" |
| 11:13.55 | Shirik | night :) |
| 11:14.00 | bleeter | rest well |
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| 11:30.15 | xlvii | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=86706380&sid=1 |
| 11:31.31 | Kirkburn | Sometimes, I want to strangle people - http://forums.scrollsoflore.com/showthread.php?t=1273 |
| 11:31.44 | Kirkburn | (page 8 is the newer stuff) |
| 11:32.10 | Adys | heh |
| 11:32.49 | Kirkburn | Especially Timolas |
| 11:33.07 | Kirkburn | There are some seriously, SERIOUSLY over-inflated egos on that site |
| 11:33.48 | Mr_Rabies2 | welcome to the internet |
| 11:34.05 | Mr_Rabies2 | and wikis seem to draw egos like moths to a flame |
| 11:34.28 | Mr_Rabies2 | even those not actually involved in editing it |
| 11:34.33 | Kirkburn | Heh |
| 11:34.49 | Kirkburn | Timolas' comment especially pissed me off |
| 11:37.00 | Mr_Rabies2 | i try to not get myself involved in wiki politics, but the more info, the better imo |
| 11:37.42 | Mr_Rabies2 | i hate how so many things get put up for deletion on wikipedia because some putz declares it not worthy of an article |
| 11:37.55 | Kirkburn | Notability ftl |
| 11:38.12 | Kirkburn | We rarely delete articles |
| 11:38.22 | Kirkburn | (not proper ones anyway) |
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| 11:40.06 | Adys | Indeed |
| 11:40.25 | Mr_Rabies2 | wikipedia's politics is gonna tear itself apart |
| 11:40.31 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm not saying you guys do the same stuff |
| 11:40.37 | Kirkburn | =) |
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| 11:40.44 | Adys | i find it funny how wikipedia has nominated an article for deletion 4-5 times, recreated it as many times etc |
| 11:40.59 | Kirkburn | I refuse to add more or stricter policies unless it's just to make things easier |
| 11:41.25 | Kirkburn | It's hard to delete an article more times that it's made, Adys :P |
| 11:41.35 | Adys | Adding a policy making admins able to block people for being arrogant pricks could make things easier tbh :P |
| 11:41.40 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 11:41.43 | nevcairiel | hehe |
| 11:41.53 | nevcairiel | thats a policy which should exist everywhere, tbh |
| 11:42.34 | Kirkburn | Admins are allowed to use their judgement on the wiki, or, at least, I allow myself to delete stuff without a vote. |
| 11:43.08 | Mr_Rabies2 | i think i edited one article on wowwiki a while back, just because whoever originally wrote it butchered the spelling to the point i felt like some type of intervention was necessary |
| 11:43.30 | Kirkburn | Any idea of your username? |
| 11:43.35 | nevcairiel | fixing spelling shouldnt be a problem, i hope |
| 11:43.56 | Mr_Rabies2 | like i'm not really a grammar nazi |
| 11:44.03 | Kirkburn | Found it :) |
| 11:44.04 | Mr_Rabies2 | but it was so bad |
| 11:44.13 | Kirkburn | Caverns of Time, 25th October 2005 |
| 11:44.16 | Kirkburn | *6 |
| 11:44.28 | nevcairiel | i cant stand people who spell instance names wrong in 6 different ways in the same article |
| 11:44.38 | Kirkburn | http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Caverns_of_Time&diff=prev&oldid=299378 |
| 11:44.40 | Adys | Gonmeragon |
| 11:44.51 | nevcairiel | Auchindoun is a good example for that too |
| 11:45.09 | Adys | Achaindoon |
| 11:45.19 | Mr_Rabies2 | was that it? |
| 11:45.19 | Adys | hm |
| 11:45.25 | Mr_Rabies2 | i remember it standing out so bad |
| 11:45.28 | Adys | http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Mr+Rabies sounds like it :P |
| 11:45.31 | Mr_Rabies2 | i guess i was just in a grammariffic mood |
| 12:03.36 | Mr_Rabies2 | irc is officially dead, every channel of mine is colored blue, which means no one has spoken since i've last checked them :[ |
| 12:03.45 | *** join/#wowi-lounge JoshBorke (n=Josh@r35h14.res.gatech.edu) |
| 12:04.05 | Mr_Rabies2 | and i'm in 17 different channels across 6 networks :p |
| 12:04.16 | Mr_Rabies2 | i'm such an addict :[ |
| 12:07.09 | Industrial | Mr_Rabies2: meh. |
| 12:07.23 | Mr_Rabies2 | ooh this one was green |
| 12:07.25 | Mr_Rabies2 | and it beeped |
| 12:08.09 | Industrial | mirk :| |
| 12:10.20 | Mr_Rabies2 | i love mirc |
| 12:10.27 | Mr_Rabies2 | mainly because i can actually code in it :p |
| 12:11.49 | Industrial | lol. |
| 12:12.13 | nevcairiel | mirc coding language is teh weird. |
| 12:12.23 | Industrial | its teh one step up from html :P |
| 12:12.24 | Mr_Rabies2 | it's incredibly easy, thus fitting for me |
| 12:27.21 | krka | irssi can use python and perl, afaik |
| 12:29.04 | zenzelezz | you know you want a Tcl compatible client |
| 12:30.41 | krka | ooh, this looks nifty: http://weechat.flashtux.org/features.php |
| 12:32.06 | krka | i wonder if it's an irssi fork |
| 12:34.52 | wereHamster|zZz | yeah.. looks just like irssi |
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| 12:37.18 | krka | ooh, apparently it's not a fork |
| 12:37.23 | krka | interesting |
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| 12:38.47 | wereHamster | .. do they explain somewhere why it looks like irssi? |
| 12:38.50 | Mr_Rabies2 | irssi spoon |
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| 12:40.54 | Mr_Rabies2 | not too bad but i don't really like the asthetics |
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| 12:49.20 | Kirkburn | So, GTAIV trailer tonight |
| 12:51.12 | bleeter | weechat's not a fork, new code... they were talking about merging at some stage, dunno what happened 'bout that |
| 13:00.26 | krka | weechat sucks at lua |
| 13:00.38 | krka | example copied from the api docs: |
| 13:00.38 | krka | weechat.add_message_handler ("privmsg", "my_function") |
| 13:00.53 | krka | it takes the _name_ of the a global variable that points to a function, instead of the function |
| 13:01.34 | Mr_Rabies2 | mirc's language is more than i need :[ |
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| 16:12.37 | Nom- | 4 bosses in 3.5 hours :) |
| 16:12.56 | Nom- | We're definately getting better ^_^ |
| 16:14.44 | *** join/#wowi-lounge buhdacruzin (n=Buhdacru@75-129-134-150.dhcp.fdul.wi.charter.com) |
| 16:15.04 | buhdacruzin | hi every1 |
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| 16:15.44 | buhdacruzin | hi all |
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| 16:17.53 | buhdacruzin | hi srosh |
| 16:18.19 | Industrial | I have a macro question |
| 16:18.42 | buhdacruzin | I have a question about gold? |
| 16:18.55 | Industrial | Im making a grind macro and I want my pet to attack as I cast Corruption, Curse of Agony, Shoot |
| 16:19.04 | Industrial | however, I only want it to attack once |
| 16:19.23 | Industrial | so ill need to opposite of /petattack [target=pettarget,exists] |
| 16:19.29 | Industrial | is that possible? |
| 16:19.44 | buhdacruzin | are macros illegal |
| 16:19.46 | |FF|Im2good4u | buhdacruzin: ask |
| 16:19.51 | Industrial | buhdacruzin: .. |
| 16:19.59 | |FF|Im2good4u | macro's arent illegal |
| 16:20.20 | buhdacruzin | how would I get a decent one |
| 16:20.22 | Industrial | because with using only /petattack i'm anoyed by the fact that at every step my pet attacks AGAIN making it sotp its current attack so it misses _some_ dps. |
| 16:20.39 | Industrial | buhdacruzin: http://www.wowwiki.com/HOWTO:_Make_a_Macro |
| 16:20.48 | buhdacruzin | thanks indust |
| 16:20.57 | |FF|Im2good4u | Industrial: im a hunter so i dunno for warlock pets but cant u cast "passive" mode ? |
| 16:21.18 | buhdacruzin | what about getting gold from those sites online I have been eyeing them up for a while |
| 16:21.22 | Industrial | well yeah.. but |
| 16:21.28 | Industrial | buhdacruzin: NO, BAD, ILLEGAL, etc |
| 16:21.53 | |FF|Im2good4u | well pursing gold used tobe illegal but i think atm only selling is illegal but buyin it isnt but im not sure lol |
| 16:22.01 | Industrial | |FF|Im2good4u: I want the pet to stick to its target, but not make it attack again when i press the macro to do the next step in the castsequence |
| 16:22.16 | Industrial | |FF|Im2good4u: its still immoral |
| 16:22.33 | |FF|Im2good4u | hmm well maybe cast pasive mode and cast "stay" |
| 16:22.45 | Industrial | that will stop its attack completely |
| 16:22.52 | |FF|Im2good4u | i dontk now anyy way to make a pet stop attaick but keeping o target |
| 16:23.01 | Industrial | no, KEEP attacking |
| 16:23.36 | |FF|Im2good4u | oh i understood u wrong |
| 16:23.40 | Industrial | :-) |
| 16:23.56 | buhdacruzin | would getting gold for free constiutute it being illegal |
| 16:24.11 | |FF|Im2good4u | try it and see if u get banned |
| 16:25.00 | Industrial | buhdacruzin: we dont care basically, but not in here. |
| 16:25.15 | Industrial | we thing its highly uncool |
| 16:25.17 | Industrial | think* |
| 16:25.26 | buhdacruzin | well there is this site that is saying they give you gold free. I am scared of getting my account hacked or worse getting banned but it seems look a cool site |
| 16:25.38 | Industrial | buhdacruzin: then dont and sotp asking. |
| 16:26.09 | buhdacruzin | who doesnt? |
| 16:26.10 | Industrial | we the channel |
| 16:26.56 | sysrage | lol @ free gold |
| 16:26.56 | Industrial | so the macro: |
| 16:26.56 | buhdacruzin | why is everyone afraid of talking about gold |
| 16:26.56 | buhdacruzin | sorry ind |
| 16:27.10 | buhdacruzin | I will be building a macro soon |
| 16:27.10 | Industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:27.10 | Industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:27.14 | Industrial | thats what i have now |FF|Im2good4u |
| 16:27.25 | Industrial | pressing this 3 times makes the pet attack 3 times |
| 16:27.35 | Industrial | making it stop 2 times to continue attacking, wich is a waste |
| 16:27.46 | |FF|Im2good4u | ah that sux lol |
| 16:28.04 | Industrial | yeah, its only -.5 sec or so but still :P |
| 16:28.09 | Industrial | 0.5* |
| 16:28.24 | |FF|Im2good4u | wel beats me i dunno how to fix that |
| 16:28.37 | Industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:28.41 | Industrial | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:28.54 | Industrial | thats what i use to send/call my pet manually, btw. might find it useful |
| 16:29.03 | Industrial | aswell as http://beta.worldofraids.com/burning_crusade/macros/hunter/ :-) |
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| 16:59.20 | Kaso | Aeus: AddOns are very much OS independent... What exactly is not working? |
| 16:59.22 | Kaso | Waah? |
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| 17:15.18 | TheStig | haha blizzard is not allowing any mods at all in the arena finals |
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| 17:18.28 | Cide | good decision in my opinion |
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| 18:04.51 | Industrial | Question: can aggro me measured? |
| 18:04.54 | Industrial | or even estmated? |
| 18:05.26 | zenzelezz | aggro? No. Threat? To some degree |
| 18:05.51 | zenzelezz | granted most non-raid mobs follow a fairly standard aggro pattern |
| 18:05.52 | Industrial | isnt that the same? |
| 18:06.05 | zenzelezz | some NPCs ignore threat |
| 18:06.10 | Industrial | hm |
| 18:06.15 | zenzelezz | aggro is just being the target of aggression |
| 18:06.21 | Industrial | well then I mean threat :-) |
| 18:06.37 | zenzelezz | that can usually be estimated, like KTM or whatever the mod is called |
| 18:06.44 | Industrial | might be interesting to see how far you can push your pet to tank |
| 18:07.01 | *** join/#wowi-lounge ag`_ (n=ag`@0x503e79d4.bynxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 18:07.08 | Industrial | to get maximum Pve/solo dps |
| 18:07.16 | Industrial | for warlock/hunter |
| 18:07.19 | zenzelezz | sounds like a fun experiment |
| 18:07.40 | Industrial | :) |
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| 18:34.08 | Industrial | Barrens or Silverpine |
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| 18:40.10 | cogwheel|work | depends on how social you're feeling... |
| 18:40.50 | zenzelezz | I only went to Silverpine once as a lowbie |
| 18:40.57 | zenzelezz | didn't like the sons of Arugal |
| 18:41.03 | Industrial | lol. |
| 18:41.35 | Industrial | i did it once too |
| 18:41.35 | Industrial | i can do barrens blindfolded |
| 18:41.45 | Industrial | the question is will it take me to 20 or not ;) |
| 18:41.54 | Industrial | meh who cares silverpine ho! |
| 18:42.01 | cogwheel|work | it will. |
| 18:42.23 | cogwheel|work | you can smoothly transition from tirisfal->silverpine->tarren mill |
| 18:42.40 | Industrial | k |
| 18:43.44 | AnduinLothar | there needs to be some alliance quests for the instance in silverpine. one one i know of is the lvl 20 pally hammer chain |
| 18:44.08 | AnduinLothar | only one* |
| 18:44.24 | cogwheel|work | if they did that, they'd have to put horde quests in deadmines :P |
| 18:44.45 | AnduinLothar | sounds good to me |
| 18:45.02 | AnduinLothar | could use some low lvl pvp to spice things up |
| 18:45.03 | Industrial | how are you gonna get there safely |
| 18:45.11 | Industrial | as horde |
| 18:45.12 | AnduinLothar | that's half the fun |
| 18:45.21 | AnduinLothar | 1st intro to pvp imo |
| 18:45.30 | Industrial | i know you can swim but thats not really an option for most people |
| 18:46.01 | Industrial | AnduinLothar: you have to walk through STV if you dont know the joyamba route and even then you mostly need an escort |
| 18:46.19 | AnduinLothar | they expect pallies to get to silverpine somehow |
| 18:46.40 | cogwheel|work | yep. it's just as tough. |
| 18:46.47 | Industrial | well, thats easy on the road in hillsbrad |
| 18:46.49 | AnduinLothar | i think i swam |
| 18:46.56 | Elkano | Cide, a challenger reappeared ;) EBBs' Ace2 version has gone beta ^^ |
| 18:46.58 | Industrial | (i did it this week) |
| 18:47.14 | Cide | Elkano: hmm? |
| 18:47.14 | AnduinLothar | ya but how do you get to hilsbrad? |
| 18:47.18 | AnduinLothar | @ lvl 20 |
| 18:47.24 | Industrial | wetlands.. |
| 18:47.35 | AnduinLothar | you either swim or go through 2 zones higher lvl than you |
| 18:47.38 | Industrial | wich is where i was questing at that time anyway :D |
| 18:47.45 | AnduinLothar | @ lvl 20? |
| 18:47.48 | Industrial | yes |
| 18:48.01 | Cide | Elkano: not sure what EBB is |
| 18:48.08 | Elkano | my buffbars |
| 18:48.09 | Industrial | now 22 and cleared most of the swamp things and the raptors quests |
| 18:48.18 | Cide | ah |
| 18:48.28 | Cide | the fact that you mentioned ace2 as part of the name kind of turns me off |
| 18:48.52 | Cide | but I'll try it out and see how it looks :) |
| 18:49.07 | Elkano | well, it's a recĂ´de, not a aceification |
| 18:49.08 | Industrial | anyway i guess thats about as hard as walking through STV |
| 18:49.36 | Cide | it still makes me want to cry :) |
| 18:49.42 | cogwheel|work | about the same, in fact... the mobs around grom gol are about the same level as the ones in arathi |
| 18:50.06 | cogwheel|work | and you don't have to go through hillsbrad :P |
| 18:50.14 | Industrial | darkshire though :> |
| 18:50.34 | Industrial | ^^ |
| 18:50.47 | cogwheel|work | nope |
| 18:50.55 | cogwheel|work | swim up the river from nesingwary's |
| 18:51.02 | Industrial | hm |
| 18:51.18 | AnduinLothar | long as you avoid the crocs |
| 18:51.26 | Industrial | well if you are horde you can enter the water at grom gol and move around the murlocs in the water anyway |
| 18:51.38 | Industrial | and go up the lighthouse tower way |
| 18:51.48 | Elkano | cide, ace isn't bad but ace doesn't necesarily make things good ^^ so no need to cry :) |
| 18:52.06 | AnduinLothar | ace is evil, doncha know |
| 18:52.24 | Cide | Elkano: I think you misunderstood what I meant. putting ace2 in the name as some sort of selling concept makes me sick |
| 18:52.37 | cogwheel|work | I just don't think people should advertise their addons as Ace... it's like saying "Hey guyz! i just made a new MFC windows app that's better than the win32 version!!!" |
| 18:52.59 | Industrial | true dat |
| 18:53.12 | Industrial | and it should start with removing -Ace2- from the toc, imo |
| 18:53.22 | Industrial | and never mentioning replacement or minimal |
| 18:53.48 | Industrial | cause i can do it way more minimal without ace most of the time |
| 18:53.49 | Industrial | :P |
| 18:53.54 | Elkano | Cide, I don't have an -Ace2- in the TOC and I won't add one, so relax ^^ |
| 18:54.19 | Elkano | the funny thing is that a lot of people thought the old EBB was Ace based ^^ |
| 18:54.20 | Industrial | skree, kaw kaw, etc |
| 18:54.45 | Cide | Elkano: I was merely commenting on "EBBs' Ace2 version" |
| 18:54.49 | Cide | but that makes me happy :) |
| 18:55.33 | Elkano | currently it has "(Ace2 beta) appended but that was mostly for me to know which version to enable in addons ^^ |
| 18:58.32 | Cide | I'd personally go for something like (Beta 2.0), but go for whatever you like |
| 19:00.07 | Industrial | Kirkburn|afk: did Clearfont2 become Clearfont on the svn? |
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| 21:10.44 | TC_Working | ~moo |
| 21:10.51 | purl | mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass, or http://www.linuks.mine.nu/moo/ and http://www.riddleme.com/html/cow2.html |
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| 21:20.10 | Corrodias | <Industrial> might be interesting to see how far you can push your pet to tank |
| 21:20.23 | Corrodias | well, i saw a video of a hunter pet (boar) tanking hakkar before 2.0 |
| 21:20.33 | Corrodias | or at least before the expansion |
| 21:23.51 | [dRaCo] | some people had their pet tank anub'rekan |
| 21:25.30 | Arrowmaster | mechanical yeti tanking hakkar 1.0, nuf said |
| 21:27.37 | Corrodias | i don't think there was a ZG in 1.0 |
| 21:29.54 | wereHamster | who's anub'rekan? |
| 21:31.13 | [dRaCo] | Anub'Rekhan |
| 21:31.13 | [dRaCo] | http://www.wowwiki.com/Anub'Rekhan |
| 21:32.47 | haste | didn't he mean the first version of hakkar? |
| 21:33.01 | Corrodias | i can't guess what he means |
| 21:36.02 | TC_Working | wow, 25.6TB/s transfer rate http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/world-record-transfer-speed-set-256tb-per-second-248177.php |
| 21:38.06 | TC_Working | Tb/s* |
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| 22:23.06 | Mike-N-Go | Anyone have any tips to farming honor? I am a level 69 hunter, Tauren. |
| 22:24.42 | Corrodias | well |
| 22:25.01 | Corrodias | i hate wsg, so i'd recommend AB or AV |
| 22:25.10 | Corrodias | if you can win AV some of the time, the honor might come faster |
| 22:25.29 | Mike-N-Go | I have only managed to get 2 of the level 70 items, the marks come fine, it is the honor that is lacking. |
| 22:25.45 | Corrodias | same here |
| 22:26.03 | Corrodias | i need 21,000 honor for my pvp belt and another 21,000 or so for the improved anti-fear trinket, as i call it |
| 22:26.19 | Corrodias | i have around 6,000 and i don't enjoy pvp |
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| 22:28.36 | Mike-N-Go | I am just PvPing for gear, because I rarely do instances, never have the decaded time, and such. |
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| 22:36.01 | Kirkburn|afk | Industrial, pong |
| 22:36.35 | Kirkburn|afk | The answer is no, not sure why you'd ask? |
| 22:38.22 | Industrial | Kirkburn|afk: cus i suck never mind |
| 22:38.41 | Industrial | ^______________^ |
| 22:40.46 | zenzelezz | heh, an "I will not move during Flame Wreath or the raid blows up" chant |
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| 22:51.41 | Tem | Any suggestions for dvd burning software? |
| 22:51.52 | Antiarc|Work | Nero's halfway decent |
| 22:51.55 | Tem | the crap built into vista is driving me crazy |
| 22:53.37 | cladhaire | i use Burn on mac =) |
| 22:54.55 | Tem | I have to have a fight with it every time I want to burn anything |
| 22:55.19 | Tem | I tell it to burn 3.8 gigs onto a 3.7 gig dvd and it spits back at me telling me I need more space |
| 22:55.42 | JoshBorke | 3.8 > 3.7? |
| 22:56.01 | Tem | s/3.7/4.7/ |
| 22:56.17 | Tem | then it refuses to acknowledge that I put a disk in the drive at all |
| 22:57.58 | Kirkburn|afk | Btw, some may be interested to know the GTAIV trailer is out - http://gamevideos.com/video/id/10301 |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#wowi-lounge wobin (n=wobin@218-214-59-86.people.net.au) |
| 22:58.27 | wereHamster | doesn't windows put its install setup onto every dvd you burn? like.. to spread windows.. |
| 22:58.32 | Gnarfoz | you suffer from 'file size' vs. 'disk space used for files' |
| 22:59.26 | Tem|Work | actually no |
| 22:59.29 | Tem|Work | I just misread the dialog |
| 22:59.38 | Tem|Work | see, I'm trying to free space on my hdd by burning things off |
| 22:59.54 | Tem|Work | however, it doesn't have enough free disk space ON MY HARD DISK to make the image before burning it |
| 23:00.22 | Tem|Work | so that part is my mistake, but the rest of its bullshit is still contemptable |
| 23:01.40 | Kirkburn|afk | hahaha |
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| 23:03.00 | Tem|Work | oh hell |
| 23:03.03 | Tem|Work | now I'm late for work |
| 23:03.13 | Fin | Tem|Work: Nero |
| 23:03.17 | bleeter | Alba^[AFK]: please don't /me on /away |
| 23:03.40 | Fin | and you shouldn't have to make an image before burning |
| 23:08.10 | Kirkburn|afk | oooooh, at the GTA4 trailer |
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| 23:13.26 | Mr_Rabies2 | your mom's a gta4 trailer :| |
| 23:14.48 | JoshBorke | well then |
| 23:16.57 | Mr_Rabies | i really need to figure out how to disable those quit messages when they're on a network with no context |
| 23:18.33 | Kirkburn|afk | lol |
| 23:18.52 | Mr_Rabies | they're also incredibly old |
| 23:19.15 | Mr_Rabies | but changing them requires too much work |
| 23:19.28 | Mr_Rabies | some of my quit messages are probably 6 or so years old |
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| 23:21.01 | bleeter | Mr_Rabies: lack of context is good, makes you appear more esoteric than you might be naturally ;) |
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| 23:21.23 | bleeter | tho prolly doesn't win chicks and influence people /shrug :P |
| 23:28.35 | Mr_Rabies | woo my guitar hero 2 shipped today |
| 23:29.38 | Corrodias | what's guitar hero like? |
| 23:30.58 | Mr_Rabies | it's like awesome only better |
| 23:30.58 | bleeter | I haven't used it, but a guitar player mate of mine reckons it's fun-ish |
| 23:31.10 | Mr_Rabies | i'm terrible at it |
| 23:31.17 | bleeter | he qualifies his 'ish' with 'being crap at the guitar' |
| 23:31.20 | Mr_Rabies | but now that i own a copy, hopefully i'll improve |
| 23:31.34 | Mr_Rabies | it's got about as much to do with playing guitar as DDR has to do with dancing |
| 23:31.44 | Shirik | hey |
| 23:31.49 | Shirik | I'm proud of my DDR capabilities |
| 23:31.52 | Shirik | I don't care if I can't dance |
| 23:31.56 | bleeter | maybe I'm thinking of something else then |
| 23:31.58 | bleeter | meh |
| 23:32.05 | bleeter | anyway, he can now play Free Bird, so he's happy |
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| 23:33.13 | Mr_Rabies | well, being a real guitarist certainly helps |
| 23:33.22 | Mr_Rabies | and it's probably good for warming up for playing one |
| 23:35.41 | bleeter | tbh, I don't think of my mate as a 'real guitarist'... some Slayer and Metallica riffs do not make one a Django Reinhardt |
| 23:35.54 | Mr_Rabies2 | hehe |
| 23:36.01 | Mr_Rabies2 | i used to play but eh |
| 23:38.20 | Mr_Rabies | i don't think i could ever play a full song all the way through |
| 23:38.47 | Mr_Rabies | i feel schizophrenic |
| 23:39.01 | Mr_Rabies | i'm swapping back and forth between computers as i photoshop and install drivers |
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| 23:58.12 | AnduinLothar | >.< there's a greater holy prot pot... QQ |
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| 23:59.52 | Seracht | anyone have any good priest UIs |
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